Note to the Secretary-General SG
10 February 2003
Further to your discussion with Tim Wirth last week, please find attached the tape of the Ted Turner interview conducted by Mike Wallace for 60 Minutes II, which was shown on Wednesday, 5 February 2003, along with a transcript.
Amir A. Dossal
cc: Mr. Riza CBS News Transcripts 60 Minutes H (9:00 PM ET) - CBS February 5, 2003 Wednesday Profile Ted Turner; life and career of Ted Turner MIKE WALLACE
TED TURNER
MIKE WALLACE, co-host:
Tonight we take another look at the maverick, Ted Turner: 'Captain Outrageous/Terrible Ted,"The Mouth From The South.' We've been spending time with him, following him around the past couple of months to find out what he is up to, what his plans are, this television pioneer who created CNN more than 20 years ago. Well, he is fascinating as usual, unpredictable as usual. He let us know that he didn't much like his job as vice chairman at AOL Time Warner, but he didn't give us a clue that he was going to resign from that job, which he did last week. We talked with him again yesterday, and you'll hear more about that later. First, come with us now as we walk with Ted on a Manhattan sidewalk outside AOL Time Warner headquarters and begin to learn what has been churning in Ted Turner's always-volatile mind.
They've not iced you here?
Mr. TED TURNER: Iced me?
WALLACE: Yeah, iced you.
Mr. TURNER: What's that mean? I know what icing the puck is, but you mean put me on ice? WALLACE: Ice you out, yeah.
Mr. TURNER: No, I'm not—I'm not out. I have one foot in the door and one on the sidewalk. I—see, here we—we're—we're welcome to go in.
(Footage of Turner and Wallace entering AOL Time Warner building)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) Though, as we said, he resigned last week, Ted Turner still holds the title of vice chairman, and he will until May.
As a vice chairman here at AOL, what does that mean? What—what is your job?
Mr. TURNER: Well, vice chairman is~is—is—is—is kind of a title without portfolio.
WALLACE: Title without meaning?
Mr. TURNER: Right, like the emperor of Japan. (Footage of Turner and Wallace)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) He's in charge of just about nothing. He doesn't even have a voice anymore about the running of his baby, CNN. He says his formal role has been that of adviser, but it's not really what he wants to be.
Mr. TURNER: I'm trying to be as good—I'm trying to play the role that I've been—that I've been given as—as good as I can.
WALLACE: But you're the guy who said...
Mr. TURNER: I'm on the board of directors.
WALLACE: So they pay attention to you...
Mr. TURNER: Well, they do, yes.
WALLACE: ...as much as you'd like.
Mr. TURNER: No.
(Footage of Turner during merger announcement)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) Back when the plan to merge Time Warner with AOL was first announced, Ted voted for it with unbridled joy.
Mr. TURNER: (From vintage footage) And I—I did it with—with as much or more excitement and enthusiasm as I did on that night when I first made love some 42 years ago.
Well, you know, on the eve of something like that, it was very clear that—that it was going to go through, so I might as well have gone along with it.
WALLACE: And it was a big mistake.
Mr. TURNER: It was, absolutely.
(Footage of AOL Time Warner people gathering for photos; Turner and Wallace)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) When the merger was announced, stock prices soared, giving Ted, the largest individual shareholder, billions. But since then, AOL Time Warner stock has gone south, way south.
How much did you lose from AOL Time Warner? Mr. TURNER: I don't-from the high to the low?
WALLACE: Yeah.
Mr. TURNER: $7 billion or $8 billion.
(Footage of Turner and Wallace; vintage footage of Turner)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) How did things get so bad? Well, it's been a long road, and 60 MINUTES has been there for much of the ride. Back in 1977, we first met the young Ted Turner on 60 MINUTES when he sailed The Courageous to victory in the America's Cup race.
Mr. TURNER: (From 1977) Oh, you know, it's just another sailboat race.
(Vintage footage of Turner celebrating, greeting people; photos of Ted's father and himself as a child)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) And then he had a little too much victory punch. But the yachtsman, playboy, bad boy was already on his way, in large part, due to his father, who ran a successful billboard company, but who was tortured by depression and tough on his son, Ted.
Mr. TURNER: I do not think my father was abusive. My father was a strict disciplinarian, but he and I were extremely close.
WALLACE: He used to beat you with a wire hanger.
Mr. TURNER: With a wire coat hang-he did—he did several times.
WALLACE: And then the story goes that he made you beat him.
Mr. TURNER: He did. He made me spank him one night, and—and that was very, very hard. And I—I was easier—it was much easier to be spanked than spank your father.
(Photo of Turner and his father; newspaper article; footage of Turner and Harry Reasoner; television screen featuring Superstation)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) Then when Ted was 24, his father committed suicide, and that is when Turner swung into high gear as an entrepreneur and budding tycoon. By 1979, when my colleague Harry Reasoner talked with him, Ted had already created the nation's first TV Superstation.
(Excerpt from vintage broadcast)
Mr. TURNER: Winning, what do you think of this team? "WINNING": I like every one of them.
(End of excerpt; footage of Turner in 1980; CNN logo)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) And he was the owner of the Atlanta Braves baseball team. And then the very next year, 1980, he launched CNN.
Announcer: This is CNN.
(Footage of CNN control room; cover of Time; Turner and Sawyer; CBS building; photo of Turner; photo of Turner and Fonda; footage of Turner and Wallace)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) It was dubbed the Chicken Noodle Network back then, but as CNN began to show it was a serious news operation, Turner's appetite got even bigger. In 1986, when Diane Sawyer interviewed him for 60 MINUTES, Ted had just lost his bid to take over this network, CBS. Along the way, of course, there was his personal life, and that was another story. Turner has been married and divorced three times, most recently to Jane Fonda, to whom he remains deeply loyal. I read something Jane Fonda had said about him.
She has said, 'With all the love in the world,' she says, 'he has been severely, hauntingly traumatized. He always thinks something is to be pulled out from him,' with reference to your dad maybe. 'He has no belief in permanency, stability. It is one reason I'm not with him.'
Mr. TURNER: I'm sure that she feels that way. She's told me that. I--I-I-I-I wouldn't say that I agree with that completely. I know that I—that I have some insecurity problems. Most overachievers do. I've had...
(Footage of Turner on several occasions)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) But he's had other problems, problems that earned him those names 'Captain Outrageous,"Terrible Ted' and 'Mouth From The South,' much of it because he says what's on his mind, and you never know what that's going to be, and sometimes neither does he.
Mr. TURNER: And I get in trouble because, you know, when you're-when you're speaking off the cuff and you don't—aren't positive of what you're going to say till you say it, you say things that, taken out of context, look pretty outrageous sometimes.
(Footage of Turner and Wallace)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) Like the time he took a swipe at religion or one particular religion. 'Christianity is for losers.'
Mr. TURNER: Terrible statement. I-I--I-I really regretted...
WALLACE: Where did it come from?
Mr. TURNER: ...regretted that from the time that it came out of my big, fat mouth.
(During speech) I believe that you should live by your word.
(Footage of Turner and audience)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) And there were others, like when he gave a speech some months after the World Trade Center disaster.
Look, after 9/11, you said in a speech-
Mr. TURNER: Oh, my God.
WALLACE: ...what was on your mind, and some had a problem with it. And you apologized after—well, expressed regret for it. But let me-let me repeat what you said.
Mr. TURNER: OK, go ahead.
WALLACE: The 19 young men who blew themselves up going into the Trade Center...'
Mr. TURNER: (From speech) ...going into the Trade Center that our administration called cowards--I mean, how are you a coward when you're willing to die for your country? I mean, I think they were brave, at the very least. And I'm not going to fly my airplane...
'Brave' was a bad—was a bad word. But I do not think—as I—I know, for instance, my father committed suicide, and he was not a coward. He was very brave when he shot himself, in my—in my opinion. So I—I—that's why, to a degree, I said that.
(Footage of Turner and Wallace)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) Nonetheless, he regrets he said it.
Mr. TURNER: A lot of times, what you have in your mind is best left unsaid, particularly if you're trying to be diplomatic.
WALLACE: Trying to be diplomatic? Ted Turner?
Mr. TURNER: I try and be diplomatic. I really do. Maybe I didn't when I was younger, but I'm certainly trying now because I—you know, 'sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.' But that's not really true. Words can hurt somebody.
(Footage of Turner at UN luncheon)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) But sometimes Ted Turner's words can have a distinctly different effect, and at a recent UN luncheon honoring him, he recounted the events that led up to a speech he made back in 1997, the speech that stunned the audience and even Ted Turner.
Mr. TURNER: (From speech) I got a letter saying that I was going to be honored by the United Nations Association as their Man of the Year. And I thought, 'Well, what am I going to say?' 'Cause I had to make a little speech. I said, 'What am I going to say?' You know? Say something significant. But what could you say that's significant? UN doesn't have any money, you know. The US won't pay.' I said, 'Give them some money. Give a b—a lot of money.' I said, 'How much we going to give them?' I said, 'It's got to—you know, it's gotta be in the newspapers. It's got to be a big figure. How about a—how about a billion, you know?11 mean, that was...
(Footage of Turner at luncheon)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) And so the 'Mouth From The South' had put his money where his mouth is. He pledged $1 billion to the United Nations through a foundation he would create.
Mr. TURNER: (From speech) And then the next really incredible thing is we had to come up with a name for this foundation, and I'm good at names. I came up with the name Goodwill Games, you know, with my buddies, the Russians. We Commie buddies-you know, we had a lot of fun. Anyway, you know—so I—I—I said, 'What is the name?' And there was one name that just spouted out. I said, 'The United Nations Foundation.' I said, 'But, wow, the United Nations will have to let us use their name.'
What happens if I turn out to be a jerk? You know, wh—can you imagine the United Nations at war with The United Nations Foundation with that name? I mean, I—really. So I came to Kofi and said, 'Will you let us use your name?' They said, 'We got to look at that carefully.1 They said, Turner, you're not going to embarrass us, are you?' I said, 'I sure hope not. You know, I—I--I don't intend to.1 And—and they approved that.
(Footage of Turner after speech; Turner and Kofi Annan; missile launch; Nuclear Threat Initiative banner)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) Ted pledged that $1 billion over 10 years, but since the collapse of his AOL Time Warner stock, he's extended that payout period. But he insists he is committed to pay every dollar of it. And beyond that, he's also committed to fighting the use of weapons of mass destruction. He created and bankrolled something called the Nuclear Threat Initiative for that purpose. You're trying to save the environment, try to prevent the use of weapons of mass destruction, $ 1 billion for the United Nations through your UN Foundation to relieve poverty, to stop war.
Mr. TURNER: Cure s-diseases.
WALLACE: It sounds like a one-man mission to cure the world.
Mr. TURNER: Well, I wouldn't say a one-man mission to cure the world. That's~but~ but~but basically I—I—I do feel the—the world and life have been mighty good to me. I want to put something back.
WALLACE: So the satisfaction that you get personally from this philanthropy, from this giant philanthropy...
Mr. TURNER: I--I--I do it because I feel like it's the right thing to do.
(Photo of Ted; footage of Ted's Montana Grill; "Gods and Generals")
WALLACE: (Voiceover) But, still, he hasn't given up entrepreneurship. There's Ted Turner, the land baron, who owns nearly two million acres, more land than the state of Delaware. And there's the restaurateur, who's opened a chain of Ted's Montana Grill restaurants, and Ted Turner Pictures, which recently bankrolled "Gods and Generals," a Civil War movie premiering next week. And, incidentally, when you cough up the cash, as he did, you get yourself a cameo appearance.
(Excerpt from "Gods and Generals"; footage of Turner and Wallace)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) But at the end of the day, what Turner is proudest of is the same thing he's lost control of: his beloved CNN. Incidentally, just yesterday, Turner told me he is against a merger between CNN and ABC News. Too many problems, he says.
When you look at CNN today, if you were still running it, what would you change?
Mr. TURNER: Well, I don't think that's fair.
WALLACE: Sure, it is.
Mr. TURNER: I don't-no, it's not. I-I-I'm-and I'm not going to...
WALLACE: Is there too much talk and not enough news?
Mr. TURNER: I'm not-I-I think, basically, that CNN is doing a pretty good job. I mean, there are some things obviously that I don't like, but I'm the old—old fuddy-duddy that- that it reported to for 22 or 23 years. So, I mean, obviously, any changes are going to be something that are—some—give me some trouble. But, you know, that's just the way old folks are. That's why every now and then it's a good thing for older people to—to step aside and let younger people run these things and move on to...
WALLACE: Is that aimed at me?
Mr. TURNER: No, not necessarily.
(Footage of Turner and Wallace)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) He and I took a walk over to CNN's glass-enclosed, street-level studio here in New York City.
Come on and—you're on the outside looking in at CNN.
Mr. TURNER: Yes, we are.
WALLACE: Can you imagine?
(Footage of Wallace and Turner looking through CNN's window)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) And before we knew it, we were briefly on CNN ourselves.
Unidentified Man #1: (From CNN) And outside the window, you have Mike Wallace from 60 MINUTES.
(Footage of Wallace and Turner outside CNN building)
Unidentified Woman: (Voiceover) Oh, and Ted Turner.
Unidentified Man #1: (Voiceover) And Ted Turner. Wow.
WALLACE: What do you feel about looking in at CNN?
Mr. TURNER: It's difficult. But, you know, you can't live in the past. You've got to live in the present and the future. And I've got plenty to do.
WALLACE: When the name Ted Turner is mentioned, every time, people say, 'CNN.' You're the guy who started this. You're the guy who s...
Mr. TURNER: Don't forge the Cartoon Network. The viewership of it is twice what CNN's viewership is.
WALLACE: Really?
Mr. TURNER: Yeah. WALLACE: All right. Let-shall we go in?
Mr. TURNER: Sure. Absolutely, if they'll let us.
Unidentified Man #2: All right, the boss is here.
Mr. TURNER: No, I'm not. The boss is not here. The founder is here.
(Footage of Turner and Wallace on CNN studio)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) And, of course, he was greeted warmly.
Unidentified Woman: Great. Thanks for stopping by.
Unidentified Man #3: Good to see you.
Mr. TURNER: Good to see you. Thank you very much.
Unidentified Man #1: Good to see you. Take care.
(Footage of CNN building; Ted and Wallace walking)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) But as we left CNN, walking over to AOL Time Warner's headquarters, it became a stroll down Memory Lane for Turner.
Mr. TURNER: Isn't that the old CBS building right there?
WALLACE: That's right.
Mr. TURNER: You know, I used to sing when I walked by, This nearly was mine.' I had all three of the networks bought at one time or another.
(Footage of Turner and Wallace)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) Of course, he never did acquire any of the major networks. And now...
At the age of 64, and you're in good shape...
Mr. TURNER: Yes.
WALLACE: ...what do you want your life to be?
Mr. TURNER: Well, I want it to be varied, I want it to be interesting, I want it to be exciting, I want it to be challenging, and I want it to be fun. (Footage of Turner and Wallace)
WALLACE: (Voiceover) And when it all ends, well, Ted Turner has a plan for that, too.
Mr. TURNER: I know what I'm having them put on my tombstone. 'I have nothing more to say.1
WALLACE: Well, Ted Turner is not dead yet, and I suspect we're going to be hearing a lot more from him. And, by the way, yesterday he told us that speculation he might try to buy back CNN is dead wrong. He told us he doesn't have enough money to do it. And he pointed out that in the week since he resigned his job, as the AOL Time Warner stock dove yet again, he lost another $1/4 billion.