ichael Smerconish L’87 is talking sent the recording to Mother Jones mag- Mto the nation—a satellite-based slice azine—at which point they went viral. of it, anyway—as I step into the stu- (Luntz’s “request to be taken off the dio. He’s leaning into the mic at his cor- record was never one to which I acqui- ner desk, headphones framing his shiny esced,” wrote Abbi in a guest column for dome, bantering on-air about the upcom- the DP, describing himself as a “passion- ing White House Correspondents Dinner ate moderate with a strong conception with T.C. Scornavacchi, his dark-maned of what is wrong in politics today.”) An executive producer, sounding board, and incensed Luntz promptly withdrew fund- foil. When he sees me he waves me in, talk- ing for a scholarship that had paid for ing animatedly all the while, and points to Penn students to travel to Washington. a long table where I can park myself. On it Smerconish, after some indignant prod- a large map of the United States bristles ding by Scornavacchi, agrees that “the with pins representing caller locations: kid should have honored [Luntz’s] wish” 44 states at the beginning of Day 10 on to keep his remarks off the record, adding: POTUS, which stands for Politics of the “There was plenty of stupidity and blame United States, a channel on SiriusXM. By to go around.” But, he adds, his guy-next- the end of the day it will be 45. door voice rising to a rusty-gate falsetto: Near the door hangs a large framed “Frank Luntz is a big boy. It’s ridiculous photo of Larry David, the Seinfeld and to say, ‘You’re not recording me now, are Curb Your Enthusiasm creator, with a you?’ To college kids? Are you joking? I do hand-written inscription: Michael, are a lot of speaking, and I would never say you my Caucasian? Smerconish calls to an audience that has brought me in, David his “radio inspiration,” and he fre- ‘Now, you’re not going to record me on quently interjects irreverent Seinfeld-ian this, are you?’ That’s ridiculous.” bits of Nothing into his show—though as On the content of Luntz’s remarks, how- in Seinfeld, those bits usually have some- ever, Smerconish agrees whole-heartedly. thing piquant at the center. David’s play- “Luntz is saying that the world of ter- ful inversion of a politically touchy phrase restrial talk radio is doing a disservice is also candy for Smerconish, who has to the GOP—which is straight out of my written two books about political correct- playbook,” he tells his listeners. “But I’ve ness and once spent part of a show rumi- taken it much farther. It’s not just on the nating about the appropriateness of white Right; it’s on the Left as well. And it’s not people using the N-word, somehow with- just the GOP that’s being done a disser- out sounding like a scold or an apologist. vice. It’s the whole country!” Today’s three-hour show is a stew of He takes three callers. The first thinks high-protein politics and zesty Nothings. Luntz was “simply acknowledging that He began by digging into a story that the really rabid stuff is on the Right.” A oozed red and blue, both the Penn kind caller from Virginia says that he “used and the political: Frank Luntz C’84, the to be a liberal and listen to liberal radio,” former adjunct political-science profes- CCan an unppreeddiccttaabblyy ceenntrriist taalkk--shhow but now, after listening to Mark Levin, sor and current GOP message-shaper, he tunes in almost exclusively to conser- hhosst with a yeen ffor “nnootthhingg” rreaallyy haave had just been on campus speaking to a vative talk radio. Finally, a conservative aan impact oon thhee naattional ddissccoouursse?? group of College Republicans, and during pastor from Illinois suggests the problem his talk a student had asked about the By Samuel Hughes is that “oftentimes people don’t listen to causes of political polarization. After each other. Labels get in the way.” requesting that his comments be off the audience, and because they “drive the “Those labels so rarely truly fit,” Smer- record, at which point the only reporter message,” they’re driving the party out conish agrees. “They apply only to the (from The Daily Pennsylvanian) shut off to the fringe. And, he added, it’s a unique- individuals who are on the air. The ones I his recorder, Luntz pointed to conserva- ly Republican problem. meet [in person] are liberal on some things, tive talk radio as a major source of polit- Luntz’s remarks only caused a fire- conservative on some things, and they’re ical dysfunction and damage to the GOP. storm when it turned out that another not afraid to say, ‘Jeez, I don’t know’ about Certain right-wing talk-radio hosts get student (Aakash Abbi C’14) had not shut some issues. But you’d never know that if great ratings, Luntz told his student off his smartphone recorder, and had you just tuned into the usual outlets.”

44 JULY | AUGUST 2013 THE GAZETTE PHOTOGRAPHY BY CHRIS CRISMAN C’03 THETHE PENNSYLVANIA PENNSYLVANIA GAZETTE GAZETTE JULY MAY | AUGUST | JUNE 2013 45 There’s a lot more in this morning’s show— “Those 80 stations were very, very sim- widow of murdered police two interviews with book authors (one being ilar to one another, and they all had a officer Daniel Faulkner); Flying Blind: Wharton professor Adam Grant) and anoth- decided ideological approach and bent that How Political Correctness Continues to er with police commissioner John Timoney I didn’t share,” he says. “I would like to Compromise Airline Safety Post-9/11; (about the Boston Marathon bombing), a think that what I’m putting on most days Muzzled: From T-Ball to Terrorism; the dissection of some high-profile tweets, and is some independent thought. I’m not there autobiographical Morning Drive: Things a discussion of the looming threat to foot- to indoctrinate. I’m not even there to con- I Wish I Had Known Before I Started ball from parents worried about their kids’ vince you that I’m necessarily right. I’m Talking; and Instinct: The Man Who brain injuries—but we’re getting ahead of there to entertain you with headlines, Stopped the Twentieth Hijacker. ourselves. Now, as the segment winds up, definitely to offer you a perspective, but Trained as a lawyer and steeped in pol- Smerconish’s voice gives way to that old not to change your mind, necessarily.” itics, Smerconish is very much at home Stealers Wheel parody of Bob Dylan: “I think he might have been too good for in the rapid-response world of hardball “Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right— this world in terms of the mud-wrestling politics. Though his energy is controlled, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.” arena that the AM talk-radio caricature he brings an almost frightening amount has become. It seems to be imploding,” of it to his work, along with a boundless eople need to recognize that with says Holland Cooke, a Rhode Island-based curiosity about the world and ideas, a “P their entertainment choices come radio consultant. “A couple of things junkie’s attraction to politics, and a sto- consequences,” Smerconish is doomed Michael from attaining A-tier sta- ryteller’s gift for finding fresh angles. saying. “And if you’re only going to get tus on AM and FM. The one that he has the He’s also a smart-mouth who can be “a your news and information from one out- least control over was that the Holy Trinity tremendous pain in the ass,” as Scornavacchi let or one grouping of outlets and make of Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity had the puts it. When she waxed indignant on the judgments based on it, that’s going to biggest stations tied up. So he was doomed air over the Luntz incident, for example, have consequences for the country, and to [mostly] B-tier signals. Smerconish snarked: “I appreciate your they’re not going to be good.” “What limited him is that he’s reason- faux outrage.” (Asked about that later, she We’re sitting in an upscale restaurant near able,” Cooke adds. “And reasonable exudes sisterly exasperation: “What is Smerconish’s Main Line studio, and we have doesn’t conform to the Holy Trinity song- wrong with him?” A bit of bickering helps a little game going on. I tell him he should book. He does see both sides of an issue. keep things lively.) He’s certainly not lack- take a break from talking so he can have a Those guys throw lit matches at a micro- ing in nerve; four years ago he posed buck- bite. He agrees, so I turn off my recorder. phone for a living. Michael really wants naked for a Philadelphia magazine pro- Then, after a bite or two, he starts talking to get to the heart of the matter.” file—though the photo, shot from behind again, so I hit the record button. And so on. Smerconish says that while he was proud as he stood arms akimbo looking into foggy “One of the ironies is that we’re living of the way he had grown his AM program, woods, made him look like a hairless alien in a time when we’ve never had so much he was concerned about where he could contemplating his new surroundings. choice,” he adds. “And yet people are take it. “And at that time SiriusXM came Smerconish pushes his staff hard, gravitating only toward the likeminded. to me and said, ‘We think you’d be a really though Scornavacchi says he never asks I don’t understand that. I want to hear all good fit for the way in which we want to anyone to do more than he would. His perspectives! And shame on me if I go on rebrand the POTUS channel.’” intellectual energy and restlessness have the air plugged into the Times editorial Scott Greenstein, SiriusXM’s president probably kept him from settling into a page only, without knowing what National and chief content officer, basically con- comfortable rut. Politically, he’s very Review—or The Wall Street Journal would firms that account. much a mixed bag, having veered from be a better example—is saying.” “Michael has a distinctive, powerful the fairly far Right to somewhere around Being well read and informed, he says, voice, and those are the kinds of people the Center, even if his detractors would is one key to being a good talk-show host. we want at SiriusXM,” Greenstein says. say that he’s gone over to the Obama Left. Another is being a good listener—and on “He was a star in terrestrial radio, which He’ll blast a Mumia supporter on one the rare occasions that I’m doing the was attractive, but more so, we saw that show, and vigorously defend Eric Holder talking, I have the odd sensation that he was the kind of talent who could go on the NSA’s surveillance program the his penetrating blue eyes are pulling even further on satellite radio, and we next. Until 2008 he had only supported mine out of their sockets. The third is are going to take him there.” Republican presidential candidates, and an ability to “conduct a conversation.” Smerconish is more than just a gifted he’s still a gun owner who believes in the Smerconish left the terrestrial realms talk-show host, though that gift is hard- death penalty, supports ethnic profiling of AM radio this past April, partly because ly an insignificant one. He is a regular in airports, and thinks harsh interroga- there wasn’t as much of a real conversation substitute host for Chris Matthews on tion should be available in the cases where as he would have liked, even though he MSNBC’s Hardball (having subbed for it can save lives. But he’s also pro-choice, was syndicated on 80 stations across the Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck before that), would like to see pot and prostitution legal- country and got plenty of phone calls. and writes a weekly syndicated column ized, and supports same-sex marriage and While 80 stations is not Limbaugh or in The Philadelphia Inquirer. He has also other gay rights. The one constant about Hannity territory, it’s nothing to sneeze written five books: Murdered by Mumia Michael Smerconish is that you never at. But Smerconish was getting restless. (co-written with Maureen Faulkner, the know where he’s going to pop up next.

46 JULY | AUGUST 2013 THE PENNSYLVANIA GAZETTE arning: the following program someone who is passionate about being The problem, he adds, is that “passion “Wmay be inappropriate for ideo- moderate. “Certainly you can find examples has the power in this country, not raw logues at either end of the politi- of that working, though it tends to be almost consensus of votes. And passion is driv- cal spectrum,” the anonymous announcer always on PBS and NPR. But any time you’re ing the bus. And passion is expressed at intones. “This is the Michael Smerconish dealing with the media it’s a kind of chick- the extremes of the radio dial.” Program on SiriusXM’s POTUS. Proving en-and-egg problem. You can say that what- Which is partly what caused him to there is passion in the middle.” ever you hear on talk radio is a reflection light out for the satellite territories. If you’re a talk-show executive, chances of what people ‘want,’ but media doesn’t just “What satellite radio has going for it is that are you believe that getting someone to tune react to public sentiment—it also shapes it’s premium content,” says Cooke, the radio into a political discussion requires making public sentiment.” consultant. “People who hear it have paid to their amygdala light up like a hot-weather “It’s going to take some level of passion hear it. People who hear Michael Smerconish map of . Moderation is for dim bulbs. in the middle to truly change things, now really want to hear him. And frankly, the And yet, as a growing number of voices warn where I really believe the great majority coverage that he gets is better than what he about the dangers of political extremism rest,” says Smerconish. “Polling data sug- would have attained on AM radio. No, not and polarization, the idea of a hot-purple gests that more people identify them- everybody has satellite radio, but now he’s (red-and-blue) talk-show zone may yet gain selves as Independent than as Republican heard on all 50 states from sea to shining some traction. If, of course, the centrist in or Democrat. More people would say that sea, and that would have been a long, hard question has the chops to pull it off. their own view of the issues is mixed or slog one [terrestrial] station at a time.” “In some ways what Michael’s doing is a moderate as opposed to liberal or conser- SiriusXM doesn’t give out audience bit of an experiment—can you succeed by vative. They’re out there. But they’re not numbers for individual programs, being more pragmatic, more in the center?” the ones who are heard from oftentimes though it does note that the station has notes Michael Delli Carpini C’75 G’75, dean in these debates.” 24.4 million subscribers and roughly of the Annenberg School for Communication, Shades of Nixon’s Silent Majority, I twice that many total listeners. who suggests that there may be enough suggest. Smerconish nods. “I was just “Michael knows that Americans are actu- “frustration with the extremes” to support thinking that.” ally hungering for smart and compelling talk radio,” says SiriusXM’s Greenstein. “But you would be wrong to think his show “I’m registered as an Independent because is in some mellow middle ground. If you’ve listened, you know that he brings fire and passion—and intelligence—to an incredible I don’t want to be associated with the range of topics.” Smerconish says he takes the same thought processes of either one.” approach to callers that he used on terres- trial radio, which is to be “keenly interested” in them, “but not to assume that that’s great science in terms of who’s really listening.” So far, the callers to his program on SiriusXM have shown a “variety of mindsets,” he adds. “And there frankly has not been an edge to them the way that I grew accustomed to hear- ing from many of those in terrestrial talk radio.” Asked if that edge was one of ideologi- cal extremism or anger, he says: “Both.” “I think there’s a discernible burnout on this sorehead caricature that talk radio has turned into,” says Holland Cooke. “And part of what’s driving this is demograph- ics. Millennials have no appetite for blo- viating, for bias, for 100-round ammo clips—you know, society itself is moving in the direction where Michael resides.” Whether that’s true about society remains to be seen (though a recent survey of young- er Republicans conducted by the College Republican National Committee suggests that Cooke may be right). But what is unques- tionably true is that Smerconish hasn’t always resided in the place where he is now.

THE PENNSYLVANIA GAZETTE JULY | AUGUST 2013 47 “I grew up in a house that had big, fat, gaudy, 1988. “They were the values I was taught damn hurry to get out and start doing things colored Christmas lights,” Smerconish at home. He’s an ethnic and so am I.” He that I didn’t take full advantage of what was is saying. “At some point, when my house describes his father’s ethnic heritage as going on around me. I wish I had appreci- became a little bit larger than the house “Austro-Hungarian Empire and Italian,” ated that I’m surrounded by all this intellect.” in which I was raised, and I drove a car and his mother’s as Montenegrin. (One of his professors, Gary Francione, now that was a little bit nicer than the car my At one point I ask him whether a life- at Rutgers and an expert on animal-rights parents used to drive—we decided we are time in the Philadelphia suburbs may theory and law, has been on Smerconish’s now white-light people.” have had an impact on his worldview. show several times.) “If I had to do it all over By “we,” he presumably meant his wife, “I think we’re all a product of our envi- again, I would have handled my third year of Lavinia, with whom he has four children. ronment to a large extent,” he says. “I law school differently,” he adds. “Because This evolution, and his riff about his mean, if I had been born in Pakistan I’d then I started to consult on campaigns.” resistance to it, touched a nerve among be a Muslim right now. So I’m sure geog- That included running the successful his listeners. raphy does have something to do with it.” senatorial campaign of C’48 “I remember coming back from a com- And, he adds, the Philly ’burbs are a for southeastern Pennsylvania, and advis- mercial break and saying, ‘Well, it’s my remarkably accurate political barometer ing Rizzo’s unsuccessful mayoral cam- wife’s birthday—December 7—and in our for the country: paign in 1987. He was also appointed house this is the day we get the Christmas “People would say to me before the elec- housing coordinator for the Department tree,’” he recalls. “‘And if history repeats, tion, ‘Who’s going to win?’ And I would say, of Housing and Urban Development by we’re going to go home, and then she’s ‘Tell me what happens in the Philadelphia President George H.W. Bush. going to bathe it in white lights. But suburbs, and I can tell you who’s going to “It was, frankly, having those great polit- frankly, I’m really not a white-light per- win this general election.’ My mindset is ical experiences at an early age that caused son; I’m a colored-light person.’ like that of a lot of people around here, me to be invited to offer commentary on “It turned into a sort of Howard Beale regardless of how they’re registered, in radio and television,” he says. “And I think Network moment where I then said on the that they tend to be fairly liberal on social initially the ego of it consumed me.” air, ‘You know, I’m mad as hell about this, issues, conservative on fiscal and military He began doing talk radio in the early and I want to get rid of these white lights!’” issues, and there are a whole host of issues 1990s, first at WWDB and then WPHT, he adds. “So of course I went home, we got they don’t have figured out.” known as The Big Talker for its lineup of the tree, and we put up the white lights. During his senior year at Central Bucks high-powered, mostly conservative talk- She won that argument. But the phone High School West, he met then-presidential show hosts. In those days he more or less lines melted down with people who want- candidates George H.W. Bush and Ronald fit right in. His book Murdered by Mumia ed to offer social commentary about what Reagan. “I wanted to vote for both of them,” gave him street cred among cops and the the color of your lights said about you.” he says, and was “elated when they joined Rizzo Right, and he had a knack for organiz- It was the kind of radio moment he forces and became a ticket that summer.” ing goofy stunts like the Ira Einhorn Killer strives for, connecting the trivial and the That fall he entered Lehigh University, Tomato Contest (which sought the tomato profound. But it was also a populist state- where a liberal-turned-conservative urban- that “best exhibits the plump, seedy char- ment, affirming that he wouldn’t let his studies professor named David Amidon acteristics” of Einhorn C’61, then fighting personal prosperity co-opt his taste. And sparked an intellectual awakening in him. from for the of Smerconish is unabashed about his col- Smerconish, who went on to graduate Phi girlfriend Holly Maddux). But although ored-light enthusiasms. (He’s a classic- Beta Kappa, also developed an “obsession, Smerconish “probably wasn’t the most rock aficionado who loves to get members not just to go to law school but to go to socially tolerant person” in those days, as of bands like Yes on his show, for example, Penn’s law school,” he recalls. “It was a sole one old friend told Philadelphia magazine, though he’s not so much of a fan-boy that focus of my junior and senior year.” his views were by no means rigid. he won’t call out obnoxious behavior, as In 1986, during his second year at Penn “I came of age in the early ’80s on Ronald he did last year after attending a Led Law, Smerconish ran for state legislator in Reagan’s watch,” he says. “And you can say, Zeppelin press conference notable for his native Bucks County. He lost the race ‘Well, that was a very conservative time Robert Plant’s withering disdain.) by 419 votes, partly because he supported period.’ What people forget is that 60 per- Smerconish grew up in a solidly Repub- the controversial nuclear-plant pumping cent of the Senate were moderates. And so lican household in Doylestown, the gov- station along the Delaware River, whose many moderates existed in the Republican ernmental seat of Bucks County. He opponents included one Abbie Hoffman. In Party that there was a group called the describes himself as a “cafeteria Catholic,” his 2009 book Morning Drive, he recalled Wednesday Lunch Club. They were the face and says that, like many others, he followed telling supporters that he was “proud of our of the Republican Party. Today, if you tried his parents’ political inclinations. As a effort to bring conservative government to to put together the Senate moderates of sixth-grader he wrote fan letters to Phila- Bucks County.” But, he added, he would no the GOP, you’d be in a phone booth. They’ve delphia Mayor Frank Rizzo, and by the longer describe himself as “conservative.” all been drummed out by these ideological time he was 16 he was invited to a five-hour He cops to some regrets about his time at purity tests.” breakfast at Rizzo’s Chestnut Hill home. Penn Law. “I worked so hard to get in there, Those, in turn, are driven by gerryman- “I liked his values,” Smerconish told and then my mind wandered by the end of dered “safe” districts (in which compromise The Philadelphia Inquirer’s Tom Fox in my second year,” he says. “I was in such a is seldom needed), the role of fundraising,

48 JULY | AUGUST 2013 THE PENNSYLVANIA GAZETTE and the closed-primary system, he says, normally get drawn to the Democratic side he explains. “I don’t want to be unfriendly, pointing to some recent primary elections of the aisle, but that’s what happened to me. but if you do speak to someone [off the air] in which fringe Republican candidates like I thought that the Republicans, for all the and they tell you something, they forget Christine O’Donnell in Delaware defeated tough talk, weren’t being smart about this. that they told you off the air. So how can I better credentialed but more moderate can- So it was foreign policy, and terror in par- now make stupid talk with the president? didates. “Why?” asks Smerconish (who sup- ticular, that made me cast that ballot.” I’m thinking, ‘Jesus, I don’t want to ask him ported former Governor Jon M. Huntsman Not surprisingly, he announced his about Cash for Clunkers or healthcare. I’m Jr. C’87 Hon’10 in the Republican presiden- change of allegiance on the air. almost sorry he’s here early, but not really.” tial primary). “Because only 16 percent came “I shared it with my audience, not in a So he pulled out a question from his sons, out in that primary. Who are they? They are scolding way of, ‘This is what I’m doing and who wanted him to ask about a certain ideologues. Where are they getting their this is what you need to do,’ but one of, ‘This book in the film National Treasure 2. information? Talk radio, Drudge, and Fox. is how I got here, and this is what I’m going “I said, ‘Mr. President, what’s in the That’s it.” to do, and I feel like I should let you in the ‘Book of Secrets’?” And without missing booth with me.’ Yeah, that was a significant a beat, he said to me, ‘I would tell you, Smerconish’s personal migration to the moment for me, and I think a significant but I’d have to kill you.’” Center was driven by a number of things. moment for a lot of listeners, many of whom Smerconish has interviewed Obama “I was never in for the program driven will never forgive me for having made that seven times now, as well as every other largely by evangelical Christians, who have move. But I sleep well in the whole way in living president. The effect of that on his controlled the GOP platform on the social which this thing has evolved.” audience is hard to gauge, though. issues,” he says. “I think like many others The reaction to his political evolution/ “People do not come up to me and say, I just sort of turned the other cheek and change of heart/apostasy was, well, fast ‘Oh, I heard your interview with Obama— acted like those social planks didn’t exist and furious, and it hasn’t calmed down when you asked him about the hunt for in the platform, when in fact they do. And much. Just check out his Facebook page. bin Laden, that was really good,’” he says. the party has gone much too far in that “It’s amazing to watch the 180 turn you “They will ask me about things like the direction, in my view. So the party probably have made from proud Ronald Reagan color of their Christmas lights. They’ll left me more than I left it. and both George Bushes supporter to ask me about poker. They’ll ask me about “Notice I haven’t joined the Democratic cheerleader, lackey, and apologist for the the declining rates of circumcision.” ranks, either,” he adds quickly. “I’m reg- Obama administration,” wrote one per- istered as an Independent because I don’t petual critic a few months ago. “I guess Which is why, on this late-April morning, want to be associated with the thought that money was good enough to sell your which happens to be Day Two of the NFL processes of either one.” soul and shred whatever remaining Draft, he’s trying to maintain a dialogue Until the 2008 election, Smerconish had integrity you once had. SAD.” with a high-school football coach from consistently supported Republican presiden- Smerconish shrugs. “Doing what I do, I’ve Pittsburgh. “You’re caught up in the hyber- tial candidates. But he found himself becom- heard it all,” he says. “It goes with the terri- bole,” the coach tells him. Smerconish, who ing disenchanted with the Bush administra- tory that you’ve got to put up with a lot of thinks that parental worries about football- tion’s approach to the War on Terror. bullshit. None of it bothers me. The only related brain injuries may someday doom “I was initially very caught up in the bra- thing that bothers me is when someone the sport, is diplomatic at first, but when vado of ‘We need to fight them over there says, ‘Well, you voted for Obama for career he brings up the research by Sports Legacy so that we don’t have to fight them here,’” gain,’ or ‘You’ve called out what you perceive Institute founder Chris Nowinski, the he says. “And then I grew increasingly skep- as hypocrisy for career gain.’ That’s the one coach dismisses it. The head injuries are tical of that approach—and in particular that gets me—because nothing is a clearer, no worse than they are among soccer play- whether we were keeping our eye on the ball surer path to success in the business I’m in ers, the guy says, and soon he’s not listen- with regard to the hunt for bin Laden. than to hammer this president whether he ing anymore, just getting louder and more “You know, I make a lot of mistakes, deserves it or not, and to spout only conser- dismissive, until finally, after a warning— and I’ve called a lot of things wrong, but vative talking points. It’s like paint-by-num- “Coach, I’m gonna finish my thought, the one area where I’m like a soothsayer bers. My god, how easy it would be for me whether you’d like me to or not, ’cause is that I always thought that Pakistan was just to come on the air like the others and that’s how we roll here”—Smerconish where we needed to be. I thought we were kick the shit out of this guy hours on end. thanks him for his call and cuts off his getting rolled by the Pakistanis and the It’s not how I see the world, and it’s not how sound. Then he addresses his audience. ISI—and that if we really wanted to go get I choose to spend my professional time.” “Listen, the way we play, for those of bin Laden, that needed to be our focus.” you who don’t know—you don’t have to When then-Senator Barack Obama came August 2009, Obama did his first talk over me,” he says. “You don’t have onto his program in the spring of 2008, they IN live radio interview as president. to rush your words. I like hearing what discussed the hunt for bin Laden, and His interviewer was Smerconish, you have to say. As a matter of fact, the Pakistan in particular. “He believed that we who was slightly flummoxed when the reason the coach was taken in the order needed to be aggressive with regard to president arrived five minutes early. in which he was, is because he disagrees Pakistan on this issue,” Smerconish recalls. “We have this expression in the business with me. So I’m not looking to quell dis- “People who are strong on defense don’t about ‘not leaving it in the locker room,’” sent. But it’s a two-way street.”◆

THE PENNSYLVANIA GAZETTE JULY | AUGUST 2013 49