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Official Use Only Public Disclosure Authorized THE WORLD BANK GROUP ARCHIVES ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM Public Disclosure Authorized Transcript of interview with JAMES D. WOLFENSOHN Public Disclosure Authorized June 5 and 14, September 25, and December 3, 2006 Washington, D.C., and New York City Public Disclosure Authorized Interview by: William Becker 1 JAMES D. WOLFENSOHN Session 1 June 5, 2006 Washington, D.C. [Begin Tape 1, Side A] BECKER: Good morning. This is William Becker with the World Bank's Oral History Program and the George Washington University, and I'm here this morning, June 5, 2006, to interview Mr. James D. [David] Wolfensohn, former president of the World Bank. Mr. Wolfensohn, it's a pleasure to see you, and I consider this a privilege, the opportunity to talk to you about your career. WOLFENSOHN: Thank you very much. BECKER: I'd like to begin with some fairly obvious questions about your background. When and where were you born? WOLFENSOHN: I was born in Australia in 1933, and educated in Australia. BECKER: Mm-hmm. And who were your parents? WOLFENSOHN: My parents were two English-born immigrants to Australia from the mid '30s: Hyman Wolfensohn, known as "Bill," and Dora Wolfensohn, his wife. And I had one sister, Betty, ten years my senior, who is still surviving. BECKER: Very good. Does she still live in Australia? WOLFENSOHN: She's still living in Australia. BECKER: In Sydney? WOLFENSOHN: In Sydney, yes. BECKER: Okay. We've already talked a little bit about music, but when did your interest in music begin? WOLFENSOHN: I, like most kids, took piano lessons at an early age, but my family was James D. Wolfensohn June 5 and 14, September 25, and December 3, 2006-Final Edited 2 rather poor, actually, and I had to give up piano lessons from the teacher that I was taking at a reasonably early age of nine or ten years old. And so my piano career stopped. My mother was a fine pianist, but studying with your mother didn't work out for me, and so my piano lapsed at a very early age. BECKER: Okay. Now, you said you were educated in Australia. WOLFENSOHN: Yes. BECKER: You went to University of ... ? WOLFENSOHN: I went to the public school system in Australia, the primary school, high school, and went to university very young, at the age of 15. I was really more or less forced by my parents, who thought I was a brilliant child, since Iwas on a quick trajectory to go to university. But at my high school, my grades went from being in the top few in a class of 127 to be, in the end, 123rd out of 127 by the time I got to university. So I got the minimum possible pass to enter university, and got there ill-prepared, scraped in, too young, neither prepared educationally or emotionally, and proceeded to fail my first year at the university in, I think, almost every subject. [Laughter] So it was not a brilliant start, but I picked myself up with the help of a professor friend of my father, Julius Stone, and finished an arts degree, and then a law degree. And I gradually recovered my balance and did reasonably well. BECKER: What was your major, ifthe-ifthe Australian system had [inaudible] ... ? WOLFENSOHN: Not quite a major, although I would always exaggerate it to my wife when I was courting her that it was music and philosophy. But, really, there were three subjects that I was working on: music, philosophy, and history. And let me say my knowledge of any of those was not tremendously deep. But I did sort of a couple of years work in each of those subjects and then did a combined degree of liberal arts and law. But in my law degree I had the Australian experience of working in a law firm in what's known as articles, an article law clerk. So for three years of my law studies, I was working during the day and attending courses at the end of the day in the evening. · BECKER: Mm-hmm. So it's more of an apprentice kind ... WOLFENSOHN: It was like an apprentice system with lectures, early morning and late afternoon, or early evening. And it was a great system if you were able to attend the classes, which I rarely did [laughter], but somehow managed to get a pretty decent law degree with no failures, which was remarkable. BECKER: Now, an American-in the American legal education, there's a possibility, I guess, in the last year-and-a-half to specialize in a particular area oflaw. Is that the case in ... ? WOLFENSOHN: It was a different system in Australia, but because I was in the most James D. Wolfensohn June 5 and 14, September 25, and December 3, 2006-Final Edited 3 distinguished law firm then in Australia, called Allen, Allen & Hemsley, and working for several ofthe leading lawyers in the country, I took a great interest in litigation, and so I became essentially a clerk in litigation, and assisting my two master solicitors, as they were called, who-distinguished corporate lawyers and preparers of litigation. And so it was a mixture of corporate law and litigation. BECKER: I see. Did you get to litigate, ah ... ? WOLFENSOHN: Yes. And, in fact, that was the reason that I reached my next step in my career, which was go to the Harvard Business School. BECKER: Right. [Inaudible] WOLFENSOHN: Because the case that I was working on for one year was a triple damages suit in an American case, RCA-Zenith antitrust action, which was a $300 million suit, which in those days was huge. And they were taking extraterritorial evidence in Australia as part of the suit, and I spent a year working for my senior partner, Mr. Reichenbach-R-E-I-C-H-E-N-B-A C-H. BECKER: Thank you. WOLFENSOHN: And I spent a year preparing so that he could try the case with Bob Zeller Z-E-L-L-E-R--from Cahill, Gordon, Reindel & Ohl, a New York law firm. And the night before the case came up, my boss had a heart attack. BECKER: Oh. WOLFENSOHN: And it was then impossible to bring anyone else into the case because it was learning four thousand pages of evidence. And so this poor senior lawyer from New York found himself working with a very junior lawyer from Australia, almost, but not yet, qualified. And it was that that took me to the United States. BECKER: I see. WOLFENSOHN: And let me tell you why, because it was amusing. In the first day of the trial, I knew everything; was, I thought, brilliant, and so did Mr. Zeller. The second day came by, and in the middle of the proceedings, he said to me, "What is the current ratio ofRCA"-oh, no-"of A W A, an Australian company?" And I, of course, didn't have the slightest idea what a current ratio was. I barely knew what a balance sheet was. And after a lot of fumbling, he turned around to me and said, "Why the hell don't you go to the Harvard Business School?" and snatched the papers from me. And that night, never having heard of the Harvard Business School, I wrote to the Harvard Business School from Canberra, and four months later I was at the Harvard Business School. James D. Wolfensohn June 5 and 14, September 25, and December 3, 2006-Final Edited 4 [Laughter] BECKER: Wonderful. WOLFENSOHN: So that's how it happened. BECKER: Okay. That was one of my questions. I did want to ask you a couple of other questions about your university experience. The first is the-while at university, you became a member of the air squadron. WOLFENSOHN: Yes. BECKER: How did that come about? I mean, was that compulsory service? WOLFENSOHN: No. You know, there was no compulsory service, but I was a student leader in the student movement, was active in sport, as you probably know, fencing. BECKER: Yes. That was my next question. WOLFENSOHN: But like other kids, I-I wanted to join one ofthe units, and it was a choice between the Army and the Air Force, and the Air Force was literally in its second year only, and was a very selective group, and I managed to get in, but was then told that if I wanted to fly, I had to stay in the Air Force for two to three years. So I became a member of the squadron, but as an equipment and accounting officer. [Laughter] And I had a lot of fun doing that. BECKER: Nifty uniform? WOLFENSOHN: It was a great uniform. The girls liked it. I liked it. My father liked it. Everybody liked it. And ultimately it helped me get to the United States. BECKER: Okay. Now, how did that-how did that work out? One of my questions is, you know, in any way was your military service influential on your later career? WOLFENSOHN: Well, it was because I had no money to get to Harvard, having got admitted. And so I called the Minister for Air, who I didn't then know, but who subsequently became a great friend, Fred Osborne-O-S-B-O-R-N-E. And I went to see him, and on the introduction of my lawyer friend, Tony Larkins-L-A-R-K-I-N-S. And he said-I stood in front of his desk, and he said, "What do you want?" And I said, "I got admitted to Harvard Business School, and I would like to get a free passage on an Air Force plane, if you have one going to America." And he was somewhat shocked and said, "Do you want to join the permanent Air Force?" I said, "No, but," I said, "if there's a war, you're going to need Harvard Business School graduates," [laughter] which seemed a bit preposterous.