Vol. 728 Tuesday No. 159 7 June 2011

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT

ORDER OF BUSINESS

Questions Health: Multiple Sclerosis Health: Hospital-acquired Infection Leader’s Group on Working Practices Care Homes Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill [HL] First Reading Draft House of Lords Reform Bill Motion Localism Bill Second Reading

Grand Committee Representation of the People (Electoral Registration Data Schemes) Regulations 2011 Electoral Registration Data Schemes Order 2011 Export Control (Amendment) (No. 3) Order 2011 Taxation of Equitable Life (Payments) Order 2011 Considered in Grand Committee

Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page

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© Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2011, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey, TW9 4DU; email: [email protected] 127 Health: Multiple Sclerosis[7 JUNE 2011] Health: Multiple Sclerosis 128

develop specialist nursing roles, the department published House of Lords some time ago a guidance document, Long Term Neurological Conditions: A Good Practice Guide to the Tuesday, 7 June 2011. Development of the Multidisciplinary Team and the Value of the Specialist Nurse. That was created in 2.30 pm conjunction with a number of healthcare charitable organisations. It outlines why services for neurological Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Derby. conditions are important, it shows the importance of those multidisciplinary teams, and it clarifies the contribution of specialist nurses. Health: Multiple Sclerosis Question Baroness Gardner of Parkes: What is the position when a specialist nurse for MS or any other condition—I 2.36 pm declare an interest as I have a daughter with MS—leaves Asked by Lord Dubs a hospital and the hospital decides that it is not recruiting any more people? I know that local providers To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many are independent, but can the department give some multiple sclerosis nurses there are in England and sort of guidance that specialist nurses should not be Wales, and what proportion of people with multiple overlooked when they replace staff and that they sclerosis do not have access to a specialist nurse. should consider the special role that they have carried out? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe): My Lords, the Earl Howe: My noble friend makes an important information requested is not collected centrally. In point. The guide that I have just referred to in answering England, it is the responsibility of local health bodies the noble Lord, Lord Walton, emphasises the important to make decisions on the number of multiple sclerosis role of specialist nurses in the care of patients with nurse posts and for local providers to ensure that they neurological conditions. However, the key in the future have a workforce skilled to deliver these services. will be better commissioning at a local level joined with better workforce planning at a provider level. If Lord Dubs: Does the Minister agree that the majority those charged with training and workforce planning of patients suffering from MS do not have access to an tap into the commissioning plans that commissioning MS nurse and that the absence of an MS nurse makes consortia determine, we will have a genuinely joined-up it very hard for patients to live independently? Does he system that is also informed by the patient’s point of further agree that the absence of an MS nurse puts view. enormously more pressure on consultants and GPs? Baroness Pitkeathley: My Lords, does the guide to Earl Howe: My Lords, the Government recognise which the Minister referred have anything to say about the very valuable contribution made by nurse specialists. keeping records? MS patients, their families and carers It remains our view that local providers should have always report that because it is an illness with long the freedom to determine their own workforce based periods of remission—sometimes lasting years—the on clinical need as they assess it. The commissioning difficulty of keeping the records up to date causes consortia that will be in place subject to the passage of them distress. the Health and Social Care Bill and led by clinicians will recognise that nurse specialists have an essential Earl Howe: The noble Baroness makes a very important role in improving outcomes and experiences for patients. point, and she is right. I will have to check whether That is part of the key to ensuring that these valuable the guide refers to that issue. I would be surprised if posts remain in place. it did not. However, the central point that she makes is quite correct. The key to this, as so often, is good Lord Walton of Detchant: Is the Minister aware that communication between those providing care at every specialist nurses play an increasingly important role in stage of the care pathway. Sometimes, unfortunately, the care not only of patients with MS but of patients that breaks down. with many other neurological diseases, including Parkinson’s disease and epilepsy? Is he aware also of Lord Laming: Can the Minister tell the House what recent reports to the effect that some such specialist means the Department of Health has for monitoring nurses, even a few funded by charities, have been the reductions in these multidisciplinary teams to which required by employing authorities to undertake general he has referred? There is evidence, at a local level, of nursing care to the detriment of the specialist care that quite serious reductions at present. they should be offering such patients? Will he take action to prevent that? Earl Howe: The problem is that, historically, there has been no requirement to publish information on Earl Howe: My Lords, I am aware of those reports. the number of multiple sclerosis nurses. The NHS We have received concerns from most, if not all, of the Information Centre for health and social care extracts neurological patient groups, as the noble Lord mentioned. data from the electronic staff record and quality-assures He might like to know, however, that to help trusts the data prior to publication in the non-medical workforce 129 Health: Multiple Sclerosis[LORDS] Health: Hospital-acquired Infection 130

[EARL HOWE] after admission to an acute National Health Service census. The qualified nursing, midwifery and health trust. Data on other infections subject to mandatory visiting staff group is broken down only by area of surveillance are not yet available for this period. work, so it is quite difficult to keep a handle on this. Lord Sheldon: My Lords, according to the British Baroness Hussein-Ece: My Lords, many people with Medical Journal, about 7 per cent of patients in hospital a long-term condition such as multiple sclerosis are in Europe develop healthcare-associated infections. In usually in their prime of life and in employment when the past there was a shortage of beds in hospitals, but they are diagnosed. It is therefore important to their what is the position now? Is there still a shortage of well-being that they can continue with that employment beds, and how many hospital patients acquired an as long as they are able to. Can the Minister say infection in 2010? whether the government-led initiative Health, Work and Well-being is supporting these people and whether he is satisfied that all employers understand that those Earl Howe: My Lords, we expect all provider trusts diagnosed with multiple sclerosis are protected by the to have sufficient isolation units for those patients in Equality Act and the Disability Discrimination Act, whom an infection is identified. I am not quite sure depending on where they live? whether this is what lay behind the noble Lord’s question, but there is no evidence to support a link between higher bed occupancy rates and higher rates of healthcare- Earl Howe: My Lords, I am personally involved associated infections. The number of beds occupied in with Dame Carol Black in a work stream under the a trust, in other words, should not have a bearing on Responsibility Deal, which covers health in the workplace. the infection rate in that hospital. Under that banner, we are emphasising to employers how important it is to understand the circumstances and needs of employees with a long-term condition. I Lord Roberts of Conwy: My Lords, could the Minister will, however, go back and see whether I can provide confirm that the best hospitals actually test patients in my noble friend with a fuller reply. advance of admission for MRSA, for example—as I personally was tested but yesterday at the Royal Liverpool and Broadgreen University Hospital? The Countess of Mar: My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that today I have received two letters, both from ME sufferers who have long-term neurological conditions? Earl Howe: My Lords, yes, and that is now a One of them has just been sacked by the National requirement on all NHS trusts. Health Service and the other has just been sacked by local government, for which she works. Can the noble Earl say what protection these people have in their Baroness Howarth of Breckland: Does the Minister workplace? Neither the NHS nor local government agree that the length of stay that a patient has increases seems to understand that ME is a fluctuating condition the risk, particularly among elderly patients? Can he and that the disability Acts require employers to make tell me how many elderly patients are now staying in allowances for this. hospital for greater lengths of time because they are not being discharged into appropriate local authority provision? Earl Howe: My Lords, I hope the noble Countess will allow that ME is a different issue from MS. I would be very happy to answer a question on ME on Earl Howe: The noble Baroness is quite right that another occasion. delayed discharge poses a risk, not only in terms of infection but in terms of mobility and other issues that affect the elderly. We are clear that if this problem is to Health: Hospital-acquired Infection be eased, further funding is required at local authority level, which is why we have made available up to 2.44 pm £1 billion over the period of the spending review to ensure that the issue is addressed. Asked by Lord Sheldon

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Baroness Pitkeathley: I declare an interest as a hospital patients acquired an infection following recoverer from MRSA. Is the Minister making any their admission during 2010. assessment of the effectiveness of preventive measures, such as hand sanitisers and making sure that doctors do not wear ties, which droop in wounds, and so on? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe): My Lords, information on all healthcare-associated infections is not collected Earl Howe: My Lords, the noble Baroness will centrally. The best available information is from the know that a code of practice was issued some time mandatory surveillance system, managed by the ago, which the CQC uses to ensure that the registration Health Protection Agency. During 2010, 1,630 MRSA requirements of a provider have been complied with. bloodstream infections and 23,208 Clostridium difficile It is clear that the decline in numbers of hospital-acquired infections were reported in England. Of these, an infections has coincided with the issue of that guidance. estimated 818 and 11,547 cases respectively were acquired We believe that it has made a material difference. I am 131 Health: Hospital-acquired Infection[7 JUNE 2011] Leader’s Group on Working Practices 132 not aware that there has yet been systematic evidence- Leader’s Group on Working Practices gathering of whether the guidance has had an effect, Question but it appears that it has. 2.52 pm Baroness Masham of Ilton: Does the Minister not Asked by Lord Tyler think it is about time that the figures for infections were kept nationally? Is he aware that some hospitals To ask the Leader of the House when he expects have got better and some have got worse, and the to respond to the recommendations of the Leader’s outcomes across the country are very patchy? Group on Working Practices.

Earl Howe: The noble Baroness is absolutely right. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord The headline figures disguise considerable variations Strathclyde): My Lords, I will be leading a debate on between the best and worst performers. Our approach the report prepared by the Leader’s Group and chaired has been to adopt a zero tolerance policy to all avoidable by my noble friend Lord Goodlad later this month, healthcare-associated infections. To support that we following which I plan to invite the relevant committees have introduced a number of specific actions, including of the House to take forward specific recommendations. establishing clear objectives under the NHS operating framework, which are requirements for all trusts to Lord Tyler: My Lords, I am sure that many Members meet, and for primary care organisations, and extending of the House will welcome that positive response from to health and social care settings the regulations on my noble friend, but can he assure us that there will be infection prevention and control. We have also increased an opportunity for the House as a whole to debate and the requirements on publishing data trust by trust. decide some of these matters, some of which are not only timely but very urgent? The work that has been Baroness Thornton: My Lords, I welcome very much done by this group is, I think, broadly welcomed the fact that the Government have continued to bear across the House—it has done a very good job—but down on this issue, which of course my Government some of it is, as I say, very urgent. Notably, there is the made great strides on when we were in office. Can the question of the role of the Lord Speaker, which is a Minister assure the House that the funding to continue matter that I hope will be determined by the House as bearing down on it will be ensured from a national a whole before the new Lord Speaker is elected. Can level? my noble friend give us an assurance that there will be a speedy timetable for discussion and decision on these matters? Earl Howe: My Lords, as the noble Baroness knows, we expect trusts and primary care organisations to Lord Strathclyde: Yes, my Lords. Of course, the utilise funds from within their global budgets to meet final decisions on these matters will be entirely in the the requirements that I have just outlined, such as those hands of the House, which is entirely appropriate. In in the NHS operating framework. These requirements particular, I confirm to my noble friend that there is are mandatory, and it appears that over the past few no reason why decisions cannot be taken immensely years, trusts and primary care organisations have really speedily after the debate and when we have taken the got to grips with this problem. views of the House into account and sent them to the respective committees. Lord Patel: My Lords, the Government are to be As for the role of the Lord Speaker, the Leader’s commended on insisting that all hospitals publish Group concluded that successive Leaders of the House their infection rates for Clostridium difficile and MRSA had acted with complete impartiality in their role of on a weekly basis, which we can monitor on the advising the House on matters of procedure and order, website. It is interesting to note that one or two including at Question Time. None the less, I am conscious hospitals stand out by consistently having higher numbers that some in the House wish to see a far greater role while the rest make dramatic reductions. What is for the Chair—notably at Question Time—and that important, however, is that there has been no reduction the Leader’s Group has made proposals in this area, to in central venous line or other central line infections. I which I intend to give prompt and serious consideration hope that the Government have a strategy similar to once Members have had the opportunity to have their the one on MRSA and C. difficile to insist that hospitals say. reduce their rates of central line infections. Lord Elton: My Lords, the report will be differently Earl Howe: My Lords, the noble Lord makes an received as regards different paragraphs by different important point. We have consciously limited the extent Members of this House. What is the procedure by to which it is a requirement to publish data to the most which we shall be able to pick and choose that which prevalent infections that need to be addressed. That is we wish and that which we shall not wish? not to say that other types of infection are less important; they are extremely important. However, we would Lord Strathclyde: That is a good question. The expect a ward-to-board policy to operate within each purpose of the debate is a bit like a Second Reading trust so that the boards of trusts bear down on these speech; it is for different noble Lords to use their infections as hard as on others. speeches to look at different parts of the report. After 133 Leader’s Group on Working Practices[LORDS] Care Homes 134

[LORD STRATHCLYDE] Baroness Bakewell: I thank the noble Earl for that that, it will be dissected by the usual channels and information. Given the latest revelations that Southern the clerks and sent to the respective committees. Their Cross traded the care of older people for short-term reports can then be debated and approved by the profit and that the Care Quality Commission so woefully House as a whole. failed to come to the help of suffering people in a home in Bristol, can I urge him to take the most urgent steps as soon as possible to relieve the suffering Lord Cormack: My Lords, I think that noble Lords of people who are old, frail and dependent, and who will welcome what my noble friend has just said. Will are suffering much neglect? he bear in mind that there is considerable disquiet in many parts of the House about the proposal that we should sit at 2 o’clock? Would he also bear in mind Earl Howe: My Lords, I am sure the noble Baroness’s that there is considerable support for the proposal that concerns will be echoed throughout the House. We we should have more Joint Committees? It is therefore have seen distressing reports in recent days of the essential that we have the opportunity to vote individually treatment of certain patients in private hospitals, but on these various recommendations. the worry over Southern Cross relates much more to its financial situation and the future of its residents. I can assure the noble Baroness that we are taking this Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, I am aware of that and situation very seriously. We are in touch, as I have that is the point of the proposal that I laid out: said, with all the relevant parties—and have been for namely, that the House will be able to take a view on the last several months. We are making sure that individual recommendations, subject to the reports everybody is aware of their responsibilities in this that emanate from the committees of this House. area, not least towards the residents concerned. As regards Southern Cross, we are now in a critical period Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I know that when restructuring is being explored, and we wish following the Question from the noble Lord, Lord those efforts well. Tyler, many Members of this House are anxious that some of the proposals at least should be implemented Lord Low of Dalston: My Lords, does the Minister in the near future. May I therefore suggest to the noble agree that the problems besetting Southern Cross are Lord the Leader that perhaps the meetings of the an object lesson in the dangers of market failure relevant committees could be arranged for July in attending the privatisation of public services? order that the House may take a view at the earliest opportunity? Perhaps some elements of the report Earl Howe: My Lords, I do not agree with that. For could be implemented in September. many years, successive Governments have relied upon private care providers in social care. In general, this Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, that, of course, will be has been entirely satisfactory. It has given people wide a decision for the Chairman of Committees, but no choice in the care available and Governments have doubt he will be listening to this exchange and will encouraged that. Financial issues for one provider—albeit wish to take that into regard while he decides on the a major one, I concede—do not undermine the entire dates of the meetings of the relevant committees. principle of independent care provision.

Baroness Knight of Collingtree: Will my noble friend Care Homes the Minister confirm that the original principle, stated Question to be the main aim of all these reforms, is unchanged in spite of the very necessary talks he is having with several different bodies? Is it still to be the case that 2.57 pm nothing is more important than the care, treatment Asked by Baroness Bakewell and curing of the patient, and the patient’s dignity and comfort, including being fed in hospital? To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to protect the interests of residents Earl Howe: I am grateful to my noble friend. That is of care homes, such as those operated by Southern entirely the aim of the modernisation programme for Cross. the NHS that we have laid out. It must be a much more patient-centred and user-centred service. As regards The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Southern Cross, we have said that there will be effective Department of Health (Earl Howe): My Lords, the protection for the residents involved; no one will lose Government will take whatever action is necessary to out. We are clear that we are putting the interests of protect the welfare of care home residents. Southern residents first. Cross has plans in place to restructure its business and is keeping the Government updated on progress. We Lord Campbell-Savours: My Lords, does the Minister will continue to keep in close touch with the situation recall that, on the wind-up of CSCI—which he will and will work with local authorities, the Care Quality recall because he was involved in the debate—we were Commission and others to ensure that there is an given absolute assurances that the new successor body, effective response, which delivers protection to everyone the CQC, would target with random and unannounced affected. visits all those care institutions in the United Kingdom 135 Care Homes[7 JUNE 2011] Draft House of Lords Reform Bill 136 where it was thought that people might be at risk? In the learning disabled in Winterbourne View care home, so far as Southern Cross had a very bad track record as shown on the “Panorama” programme, although and the CQC has failed to fulfil that promise, should I realise that that is not the subject of this Question? I not people at the top of the new body—the CQC—now agree with him that it is absurd to suggest that there is consider their positions and, indeed, resign? no role for private, voluntary, mutual and social enterprise providers in social care. How will the Minister ensure, Earl Howe: My Lords, that is a rather harsh suggestion therefore, that in the private sector—none of these regarding Southern Cross. The noble Lord will know things can happen in any of the other sectors—regulation that care providers must demonstrate to the CQC that is extended to cover the financial stability, including they have the financial resources needed to continue to asset stripping, of organisations which provide these provide services of the required quality. Clearly, there vital services for thousands of elderly people? I invite are lessons to be learnt from this episode with Southern him to agree with me that it is very distasteful indeed Cross, which we all hope will resolve itself successfully. that older people’s care should be regarded as a commodity I am sure the CQC will take on board the lessons. to be traded. From the briefing that I have had on the financial model that Southern Cross adopted, it is extraordinarily Earl Howe: My Lords, I cannot help but agree with complex even for an expert to understand. We need to the noble Baroness’s last comment. I am sure she will get that right. I know that my right honourable and know that we have embarked on a wide-ranging honourable colleagues in the Department for Business, programme of reform of social care. We are considering Innovation and Skills will be looking in general at the Law Commission’s recommendations for modernising business ownership and the issues surrounding that to social care law, and the report of the Commission on see whether there are actions that we can take to Funding of Care and Support is imminent. As I have prevent this kind of thing happening again. said, many lessons have to be learnt from the events of recent weeks. We will want to reflect on them as part Baroness Hollins: My Lords, with respect to of our wider reform agenda. The business model that Winterbourne View, could the Minister comment on underpins many of these issues is a legitimate area for why so much public money is being spent on placing the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to people with learning disabilities in private hospitals, be looking at, although it will do so in a general rather when government policy is to support such people in than specific sense in relation to Southern Cross. the community? Arbitration and Mediation Services Earl Howe: My Lords, that falls a little way outside (Equality) Bill [HL] the Question on care homes and Southern Cross. I am First Reading sure the noble Baroness knows that Winterbourne View is a private hospital with completely different 3.07 pm commissioning arrangements. However, I should be happy to write to her. A Written Ministerial Statement A Bill to make further provision about arbitration and that sets out the full position on Winterbourne View is mediation services and the application of equality legislation being put down in Hansard today. to such services; to make provision about the protection of victims of domestic violence; and for connected Baroness Barker: My Lords, do the Government purposes. know how many of Southern Cross’s 31,000 residents are self-funders and therefore entitled only to information The Bill was introduced by Baroness Cox, read a first and advice? How many of them receive state care and time and ordered to be printed. are therefore entitled to alternative provision? Given the uneven geographical distribution of Southern Cross’s homes, do the Government know whether there will Draft House of Lords Reform Bill be any local authorities with no residential care provision Motion should Southern Cross fail? 3.08 pm Earl Howe: On my noble friend’s last point, there is Moved by Lord Strathclyde a national surplus of care home beds—the figure I have here is some 50,000. Therefore, there is, to my That it is expedient that a Joint Committee of knowledge, in no area a shortage of beds. We are Lords and Commons be appointed to consider and dealing here with a series of local markets. The point report on the draft House of Lords Reform Bill that I emphasised earlier remains important. Should presented to both Houses on 17 May (Cm 8077), it come to the closure of a care home—an event of and that the committee should report on the draft which we should have reasonable notice if it happens—we Bill by 29 February 2012. will ensure that those in that care home are properly looked after. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Strathclyde): My Lords, given that my Motion has Baroness Thornton: My Lords, does the Minister attracted an amendment, I should say a few words actually think that a Written Ministerial Statement is about it. The Motion proposes a Joint Committee on sufficient to deal with the gravity of the treatment of the draft House of Lords Reform Bill published last 137 Draft House of Lords Reform Bill[LORDS] Draft House of Lords Reform Bill 138

[LORD STRATHCLYDE] Parliament who assume that their policy can be enacted month, and does so in the usual way by referring the and that nothing else will change. They believe that draft Bill and accompanying White Paper in their the de facto abolition of this House and its replacement entirety to the Joint Committee for its consideration. by an elected Senate can be seamlessly accomplished The noble Lord, Lord Cunningham of Felling, may and Parliament and Government will continue as before, shortly move his amendment and I have no desire to completely unaffected by the change. pre-empt him, but I hope that it is helpful to the I believe that they are wrong. I believe that there is House if I point out that Clause 2 of the draft Bill plenty of evidence from previous Joint Committees to provides that: enable us to come to the conclusion that they are “Nothing in the provisions of this Act … affects the primacy wrong. I welcome the decision to establish a Joint of the House of Commons, or … otherwise affects the powers, Committee of Lords and Commons to consider the rights, privileges or jurisdiction of either House of Parliament, or draft Bill, as long as that committee is balanced, of the conventions governing the relationship between the two Houses”. varied views and not a repetition of the committee set The White Paper includes several paragraphs on the up by Jack Straw during the previous Parliament—in powers of the two Houses, essentially providing, other words, not made up of people who all begin and “no change to the constitutional powers and privileges of the end by sharing the same view of the future. House once it is reformed, nor to the fundamental relationship The purpose of my amendment is to ensure that the with the House of Commons, which would remain the primary evidence, conclusions and recommendations of the House of Parliament”. Joint Committee on Conventions are fully taken into It goes on to say: account. I cite the summary of the report, on page 3: “The Government believes that clause 2 of the draft Bill is the “Our conclusions, however, apply only to present circumstances. best way of achieving this because it does not attempt to codify If the Lords acquired an electoral mandate, then in our view their the existing powers of the Houses in legislation but rather, as now, role as the revising chamber, and their relationship with the accepts that the position is a matter of convention”. Commons, would inevitably be called into question, codified or That, of course, is the Government’s view, but as I not. Should any firm proposals come forward to change the have already made clear, the Joint Committee will be composition of the House of Lords, the conventions between the able to consider each and every matter raised in the Houses would have to be examined again”. Government’s White Paper and may reach its own It is a central conclusion of the unanimously agreed conclusions. report of the Joint Committee—and, as I have said in There is, therefore, nothing in the Joint Committee’s this Chamber before, unanimously approved by both remit to prevent it from doing exactly as the noble Houses of Parliament—that that would have to be Lord, Lord Cunningham, proposes. I cannot possibly considered again. Therefore, it is important that we second-guess how the committee will choose to approach get that established with the new Joint Committee. its work, but I imagine that it would wish to have An elected second Chamber with a mandate would regard not only to the conclusions of the report chaired assert its right to a view. The evidence in the Joint by the noble Lord, Lord Cunningham, but to the Committee report says that, as do the conclusions. exchange we are having today and to related points The other House and the Government of the country that will no doubt be raised in the debate later this could not escape the consequences, which would most month. likely be profound and unpredictable, but would probably Therefore, although I am extremely grateful to the destabilise the conventions of Parliament. If change is noble Lord, Lord Cunningham, for tabling his required, and I believe it is, the better alternative is set amendment, which concerns something which has the out in the case made by the noble Lord, Lord Steel of potential of being quite a controversial matter during Aikwood, in his Bill, which I certainly support, and the discussions in the Joint Committee, I hope that the more recently the proposals—at least most of them, I House and he himself will accept that the amendment had better say, in case of an early intervention—made is unnecessary. I beg to move. by the committee chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad. The Government should support those proposals, Amendment to the Motion while still pursuing their right to establish a Joint Moved by Lord Cunningham of Felling Committee. I regret very much that in the previous Parliament the then Government consistently blocked After “(Cm 8077),” insert “and, mindful of the the work of the noble Lord, Lord Steel, and his Bill. need to protect the primacy of the House of Commons, That was a mistake. We should take care that blind that it be an instruction to the committee to take adherence to outdated thinking does not produce into account the conclusions of the Joint Committee outcomes that make our Parliament less effective than on Conventions which was noted with approval by it already is today. both Houses”. Lord Cormack: My Lords, I support everything Lord Cunningham of Felling: My Lords, I begin by that the noble Lord, Lord Cunningham, has said. I thanking the noble Lord the Leader of the House for believe that he has performed a signal service for the his comments and for the even-handed way in which House this afternoon by putting down the amendment he introduced the resolution. However, I am bound to and by moving it so eloquently. It is crucial that this say that there are some people—I do not ascribe this committee, when established, reflects the varying positions view to the Leader of the House—who propose a and opinions held in this House and in another place wholly or partially elected second Chamber in our and that it is not a duplicate of the Straw committee, 139 Draft House of Lords Reform Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Draft House of Lords Reform Bill 140 as the noble Lord has said. It is also crucial that it has of the second Chamber. My noble friend is a cautious plenty of time. Bearing in mind the approaching long man and he has put down a cautious amendment. I Recess, the date of 29 February next year does not would like it to be stronger. I would like the Cunningham give it a lot of time during parliamentary Session to go committee to be reconvened so it can consider the new into this extremely serious matter. set of circumstances—which is exactly what it suggested We are concerned about the abolition of this House in its report unanimously adopted by both Houses— and its replacement by something entirely different. It before we go on to the second consideration, which is is right that the noble Lord, Lord Cunningham, should what the composition of the new second Chamber have moved his amendment because he touches on a should be. crucial factor: conventions that apply between this I am alarmed by the position of this Government, House and another place apply between this House just as I was alarmed by the position of the previous and another place. If this House becomes another Government. We have the constant repetition of the place, they cannot apply. We talk of Parliament Acts mantra of the primacy of the House of Commons as or Salisbury conventions or the conventions into which if that in itself will deliver the primacy of the House of the noble Lord’s committee looked in such great detail, Commons. I have heard Jack Straw say time and but there will be two totally different Houses of Parliament again, “Don’t worry, you’ve got the Parliament Act if the Government’s intentions, as outlined in the and the financial privileges of the Commons”. I have White Paper, come to pass. Many of us will oppose heard exactly the same from Nick Clegg. With regard those. Whether they are good or bad is for individual to fatuous clauses—I do not want to be too rude in noble Lords to decide. this—I thought the Leader of the House quite wisely On one thing we can surely be united: if we are read out Clause 2 rather quickly. I will read it more abolished and replaced by an elected Chamber, whatever slowly so it can sink in. It says: conventions bind us or relate us to the other place will “Nothing in the provisions of this Act about the membership cease to exist because this place will have ceased to of the House of Lords … affects the primacy of the House of exist. We have to recognise that, as do the Government, Commons, or … the conventions governing the relationship and they cannot blithely say in their White Paper and between the two Houses”. draft Bill that all will be the same. All will not be the same because we will have changed something If that is not a clause which is wishful thinking, I have fundamental. not heard one. Why not have a clause saying that the new House shall have a turn-out, at elections, of at Although this is not the time and place to go into least 60 per cent? Why not have a clause saying that the great detail, I recall a conversation which I had with new Senate will cost less than the old House of Lords? the noble Lord, Lord Cunningham, yesterday. He If you have wishful thinking clauses, then the options reminded me that, when the founding fathers established are pretty wide. I support my noble friend’s amendment the constitution of the United States, they had it in but I do not think it goes far enough. mind to have a powerful House of Representatives and a consultative body in the Senate. Look what Following the comment of the noble Lord, Lord happened there. Our colleagues in another place in Pannick, regarding the date, I have to speak through this Parliament should bear in mind that if we are the Leader of the House to the Deputy Prime Minister, replaced by an elected Chamber, the new elected Chamber who has been the prime mover of these things, whatever cannot be bound, “cabined, cribbed, confined”, by the his current position. When a date is set for the committee conventions that currently pertain. I warmly support to report, the phrase “Physician, heal thyself” comes what the noble Lord has said and urge noble Lords to to mind, because we have the precedent of the Clegg bear that in mind. I urge the committee, when it is committee, which was set up in May last year and took established, to look at these points with extreme care 11 months to report. It had essentially the same remit and diligence. as the proposed committee, but it had the massive advantage of being much smaller—it had eight 3.15 pm members—and if I may say so without causing offence, Lord Pannick: Why do the Government consider it they were hand-picked to agree. If you have a committee necessary to impose any deadline on completion of of eight members hand-picked to agree, I would suggest the work of the Joint Committee? Given the importance that that is likely to lead to a more speedy conclusion and complexity of that work, would it not be more than one of 26 members of widely differing views. At appropriate to trust the Joint Committee to determine the very least, considering that the Clegg committee how long it requires? The Leader of the House said a took 11 months to make up its mind before anything few moments ago, “I cannot possibly second-guess was presented to the House, I would suggest that how the committee will choose to approach its work”. anything less than 11 months for the committee that is Those were his words. The deadline does precisely being proposed would be wishing for something that is that. probably unattainable. Why does not the Leader of the House revert to Lord Grocott: My Lords, I strongly support the his own good sense? When he set up the Goodlad amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord committee—which was a Leader’s Group—he very Cunningham. I do so because it goes to the heart of wisely did not give it a date when it should report. I what the debate about reform of the second Chamber was very fortunate to serve on it, and it took, I think, should be. It focuses on the powers of the two Houses nine months. That was without a date. It did a good and the relationship between them, which, in my view, job—very busy, hard work—and to expect a committee should be considered before we discuss the composition looking at the future of half of Parliament to report in 141 Draft House of Lords Reform Bill[LORDS] Draft House of Lords Reform Bill 142

[LORD GROCOTT] Chamber to do. Only when we have done that should less time than the Goodlad committee took, and we decide who we want to sit in the second Chamber substantially less time than the Clegg committee took, and how they should come here. is wishing for an awful lot. I would appeal to the Leader of the House not to set a date and to indicate Lord Reid of Cardowan: My Lords, I first make two that the date is by no means binding. I would also declarations of interest. The first is that I was a appeal to him in his capacity as Leader of the whole member of the Government that consistently brought House. As he repeatedly reminded us when our positions back proposals for 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100 per cent of were reversed, the Leader of the House is not just Members of this Chamber or its replacement to be leader of a great political party, as our leader was and elected. The second declaration is that I voted against is in this House, but is Leader of the whole House. As every such proposal on every occasion. I did so for two such, does he not agree that his prime responsibility reasons. First, it was not self-evident that such a to this House on Lords reform is to ensure that the change would increase the efficiency of government. 12 Members who speak for this House on the committee More importantly, as I had spent my life in the House accurately reflect the division of opinion in the House of Commons, I wanted to protect the primacy of the on Lords reform? It is not entirely within his power to House of Commons. It was obvious that it was impossible do that, but he could give the House advice. In the last to bestow democratic legitimacy on a Chamber that poll that I saw, 80 per cent were opposed to a directly was widely perceived as being slightly more mature, elected House. I do not wish to overstate my case, but both in years and wisdom, and certainly more full of I suggest that it would be appropriate for nine of the expertise, and in all practical terms to stop it becoming 12 committee members to have the good sense to wish the senior Chamber. I still believe that. to keep this House free from direct elections, which we know would damage the relationship between the two 3.30 pm Houses. When I look at Clause 2, which the Leader of the Lord Campbell-Savours: My Lords, I will express a House has read out, it reminds me of the simple fact view that is shared by a minority in House—perhaps a that you can have a clause that calls an elephant a very small minority. I start by saying clearly that I am camel, but that does not make it a camel. You can have in favour of a 100 per cent elected House. However, a clause that defies all the practical circumstances of there are consequences to some words in the amendment the world, but that will not change the world. Therefore, of my noble friend Lord Cunningham about which we in a sense, we have to do a service, not only to this should draw out more information. He refers to the House, but to the House only 100 yards from here, by need for the committee to report on the draft Bill by pointing out in, our wisdom and maturity, that it is 29 February 2012. In the event that the date were to inevitable that, if you choose a second Chamber by pass and the committee had not reported but instead democratic means and those democratic means—that sought to report by February 2013, which would be is, proportional representation—are considered at the distinctly possible because it will be in the next Session highest echelons of this Government, meaning the of Parliament, that would have implications both for Deputy Prime Minister, as being more legitimate than the introduction of the legislation and the creation of first past the post, and if the term of office of those the new constituencies. There must be a timetable. If elected by those democratic legitimate means are three one takes into account the fact that it is distinctly times as long as those of the Members of the other probable that the Parliament Act would have to be Chamber and their constituencies are much bigger, used to secure the passage of the legislation—because you will not find 300 fools in this country who will, on on the basis of what one hears, it would be impossible that basis, come here and say, “We are lesser than the for this legislation to go through without the use of other Chamber”. Everyone who comes here, with the the Act—the Government must already have had in expertise and the maturity enhanced by democratic mind a timetable when they set the date of 29 February legitimacy, will say that it is they who ought to be the 2012. We as Members are entitled to know what the primary Chamber—and they will be right—just as the timetable is, taking into account the need to create the Senate in the United States, with the enhanced powers new constituencies and the fact that the Parliament of democratic legitimacy, as was pointed out by my Act may well have to be used. noble friend on the other side, became the premier House in the United States. That is the reality. Lord Pearson of Rannoch: My Lords, any proposed The second reason that I gladly support my noble reform of your Lordships’ House clearly puts the cart friend’s amendment is—this is one thing that the Leader before the horse. Given that a majority—or at least a of the House forgot to highlight in the difference very great deal—of our national law is now made in between the Motion and the amendment to the Motion— Brussels, with the House of Commons and your that the Motion currently before the House allows for Lordships’ House irrelevant in the process, why do we the consideration of the previous report but does not start by retrieving our democracy from Brussels not require it to be considered. If the complexion of for the House of Commons and your Lordships’ the Committee was such that it was inadvertently House? We could then work out how the Executive composed—I speak hypothetically—of people who will be held to account in the House of Commons by a supported these proposals, there would be no requirement new committee structure, perhaps with new powers for on them to take into account the deep study and the the House of Commons and your Lordships’ House. full implications of that report. My noble friend’s When we have done that, we could work out the job amendment includes an instruction to the Committee that we want your Lordships’ House or any second that it must take that report into account. Therefore, 143 Draft House of Lords Reform Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Draft House of Lords Reform Bill 144 there is not just a rhetorical difference between the two For the life of me, I do not really see what the issue sides but one that would have huge practical implications is on this. An awful lot of speeches are being made for this House. The only way that we can ensure that which, if I may respectfully say so to some of those the fundamental findings of the previous report—on who have made them, would perhaps be better made which there was unanimity here and in the other in the debate on 21 and 22 June, when we are yet again House—are taken into account is to ensure that this to look at the whole issue of Lords reform. No doubt amendment is incorporated. Outside of that, all is we will have, yet again, the same sort of speeches made rhetoric, as nothing practical will be required; the by, yet again, the same sort of people, which, I fear I members of the Committee could nod in assent and must say to the House, will probably include me. The in deference to that report without taking it into fact of the matter is that on any view of this Committee, consideration at all. The least that we ought to expect, it will have to look in detail and take serious account on the basis of the report that was formed by that of what is in the Cunningham amendment. I do not Committee, is that the new Committee will be required share the noble Lord’s view that this is kicking it into to take that report into account. the long grass. On the other hand, I share some of the misgivings that have been raised about the date. This is Lord Redesdale: My Lords, I would like to speak on a big, fundamental, constitutional issue. It is not feasible this issue, although I must break a rule that I have had that it can be done by January next year. for many years, which is never to speak on House of Lords reform. In July, I will have been here for 20 years Lord Elystan-Morgan: My Lords, I shall speak very —it says something about this place that I am still one briefly. The British community has mulled over the of the youngest people in the Building after being in question of the reform of this place for over a century. the job for 20 years. Having listened many times to It is now the case that a Committee will be asked to hundreds of debates on Lords reform, I want to exercise its collective wisdom within the short compass mention that what convinced me many years ago not of nine months. It may well be that it can achieve that. to take part in these debates was when a Peer stood up, If, on the other hand, it comes to the conclusion that it 90th on the list, and said, “My Lords, everything that honestly and conscientiously would wish more time, can possibly be said on this subject has been said, but will the Leader of the House confirm that it would be not by me”. given that time with the blessing of both Houses? If we agreed to this amendment, it is quite clear Secondly, all noble Lords who have spoken have made that we would be trying to kick this into the long grass. the point that the questions of powers and membership I have heard some fantastic speeches. When we discuss of this House are utterly intertwined. Is it not very Lords reform, we do not mention these facts but I was strange that in 1911 the whole discussion was about one of those who voted for an entirely elected House powers, as it was in 1949, whereas since then the whole of Lords—I am quite happy to say that and I will be discussion has been about membership? I do not think voting for it again. We might be in the minority and we for a moment that you can discuss one without the might lose—it has happened to us over AV—but we other, and I do not think that you can contemplate a will happily go through the Division Lobbies. Some of reformed, elected House without the question of powers us will be for it; some of us will take an opposing view. being revisited. Anybody who believes that that can be However, it is better that we have the ability to take done is using a monumental self-delusion. this forward in a quick and judicious matter, rather than give the impression that we do not want to come to any conclusion at all. I very much hope we can Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton: I hope the noble move forward as quickly as possible on this. It is not Lord, Lord Redesdale, will forgive me for being quite for me to say that other people should not speak at angry about the aspersion that was cast on those of us great length on this, but I think that we all already who share the views expressed about the importance know what the conclusion is, and therefore moving on of the primacy of the Commons, about the conventions to the next business would be very helpful. and about the future relationship between both Houses. If those of us who take the view that that must be Lord Richard: I will say two things to the noble done first, before membership, are going to be accused Lord, Lord Redesdale. First, I do not share the view of kicking the issue into the long grass as blindfolded that the amendment proposed by my noble friend escapists on the issue, the tenor of all the debates that Lord Cunningham would kick this into the long grass, take place in your Lordships’ House and in Committees despite the fact that, as fair parts of the House know will not be of the quality that they ought to be. full well, I have been a supporter of a predominantly Therefore, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, elected House for almost as long as the noble Lord has will not imply that kicking the issue into the long grass been a Member. It therefore seems to me that there are is the only motivation that some of us have. I wish to two things that this Committee will have to do. One is leave a better system in the Houses of Parliament for to look at the terms of the Cunningham amendment. my children and, particularly, my grandchildren, but Of course the Committee has got to look at the jumping without looking at what is down the hole is primacy of the House of Commons. It would be silly not the way to do it. to try to produce a report without looking at that issue. The primacy of the House of Commons has to Lord Redesdale: My Lords, I apologise if any aspersion be preserved. The second point that the noble Lord was taken on board, which was not my intention. I did made is also pretty fundamental and obvious: the not mention powers or scrutiny. I just hoped that we Committee will have to look at the conventions that could move on more rapidly because this already has exist between this House and the other place. been covered. I remember the extremely detailed Jenkins 145 Draft House of Lords Reform Bill[LORDS] Draft House of Lords Reform Bill 146

[LORD REDESDALE] characteristically offered a very good critique not only committee report, but many Members were not here of the Bill but of the White Paper. Of course, we will for that. Perhaps reading that report would give an hear much more of that in the debate to come. But impression that this matter has been covered a number overwhelmingly, I hope that the noble Lord and the of times. House are satisfied that there is no intention on the part of the Government to railroad this Joint Committee Lord Wright of Richmond: My Lords, I just want to come to a preconceived conclusion. That would not briefly to say that, as the sole surviving Cross-Bench be an easy thing to do, not least when we look at the Member of the committee chaired by the noble Lord, history of the past 12 months and the committee that Lord Cunningham, I strongly support his amendment. was brought together under the excellent chairmanship If he decides to seek the opinion of the House, I shall of the Deputy Prime Minister. He brought together all vote for it. the parties, and they came to a consensus on reform of the House of Lords.

Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, this might be a good 3.45 pm time for me to reply. My purpose in laying out the Government’s view at the outset was to try to pour Lord Clinton-Davis: Is the Leader of the House some oil on troubled waters, a task in which I spectacularly saying, in other words, that the amendment moved by failed. A number of key issues have been raised and my noble friend Lord Cunningham is acceptable? perhaps I could deal with them. This is all part of an important debate and, as one or two noble Lords have rightly recognised, we are due to have a two-day Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, what I am saying is debate starting on 21 June. I urge noble Lords to that, first, it is unnecessary, and secondly, everything prepare their speeches for then. Therefore, we do not in the noble Lord’s amendment will, I am sure, be need to extend this debate much longer. taken into account by the Joint Committee. First, on timing, the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, rightly asked why, if we are not going to second-guess Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall: Will the noble Lord the Joint Committee, we are directing it as to by when tell the House how many times the committee led by it should report. I can tell the House that in a government the Deputy Prime Minister met in order to arrive at Motion to set up a Joint Committee it is entirely the conclusions that are now represented in the White normal practice that the Committee should be given a Paper and the draft Bill? target date. It is equally entirely normal practice—in the past few weeks I have moved Motions to this effect—that, if the view of the Committee is that it Lord Strathclyde: The Clegg committee met nine needs more time, it is given that time, which would of times between May and December last year before the course apply in respect of this Joint Committee. draft Bill and the White Paper were brought forward Secondly, on membership, this Joint Committee last month. cannot be set up without the agreement of this House I hope that, having heard this, the noble Lord, Lord to the names put forward. I know that different parties, Cunningham, will feel that he has had a good outing including the Cross-Benches, have different processes on the subject and that he is confident, as I am, that as to how names are chosen, but those names will be the Joint Committee will look at these matters. We can agreed by the House. I fully expect them to reflect the leave it up to the Joint Committee to decide whether it wide variety of views that exist across the House, as I can meet the deadline of the end of February next expect will be reflected in the names that come from year. another place. This will be a Joint Committee of 26 people, 13 from each House, including a Bishop and Cross-Benchers. In setting up this body, it would Lord Lloyd of Berwick: If this matter is to be put to be inconceivable for it to have a unanimous view right a vote—I do not know whether it will be—it is important at the very start. that we should know what it is we are voting on. As I understand the amendment, it is to be an instruction Thirdly, and perhaps more importantly, is the question that the joint body should “take account” of something. raised by the noble Lord, Lord Cunningham, and by To my mind it is inconceivable that the Joint Committee the noble Lords, Lord Reid and Lord Richard, about will not take account of noble Lords. Again, it is the amendment in particular. I rather agree with the inconceivable. So what are we worried about? noble Lord, Lord Richard. It would be a most odd Joint Committee on this subject if it were not to look carefully at all the clauses, including Clause 2, or to Lord Strathclyde: My Lords, I think that we have look at the paragraphs in the White Paper that have a had a useful debate because for the past few weeks view on the subject of the primacy of another place there has been an air of controversy over what the and of the conventions that bind us. conclusions of the report of the noble Lord, Lord The noble Lord, Lord Reid, said that this amendment Cunningham, meant when they were initially published. would issue an instruction. In itself, that would not be But I agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord useful if the Joint Committee chose to ignore it or not Lloyd, that the amendment to the Motion is not to take it sufficiently seriously. It would be far better necessary. I therefore invite the noble Lord, Lord for us to trust the Joint Committee to use its innate Cunningham, to respond and, I hope, to withdraw his wisdom. The noble Lord, Lord Cunningham, amendment. 147 Draft House of Lords Reform Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 148

Lord Cunningham of Felling: I am grateful to the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Leader of the House. I have only one or two brief Department for Communities and Local Government points. This amendment is carefully couched in terms (Baroness Hanham): My Lords, the Localism Bill marks that could engender cross-party, if not universal, support a turning point. For generations, different Governments in this Chamber. It is not about kicking anything into have concentrated power in Whitehall. They have done the long grass, and I regard that intervention as complete so with good intentions, but as centrally dictated rubbish. It is about trying to ensure that, as we move measures have accumulated, the result has been to tie forward on the reform of our Parliament, we end up councillors’ hands over what policies they can implement, with a better system of governance—not a worse to make public services everywhere similar and to one—for our country and the people we are here to limit the ability of local communities to influence represent. There is no mention of the date in my what happens in their area. This Bill is designed to amendment, and I accept what the Leader of the achieve an historic shift in power. It will devolve House has just said. On one occasion when I had the authority from Whitehall to town halls, create new honour to chair a Joint Committee, it became obvious rights for local communities to become more involved very quickly that the time as set down in the original in local affairs, and free professionals on the front line resolution was not sufficient. We wrote to both Houses of public services to do things in response to what and the date was extended. There is no reason why communities need rather than to government demands. that should not happen again if it is necessary. The Bill was first introduced in the other place in I am still not sure why the Leader of the House has December, but most of its measures have been the not said that he will simply accept the amendment topic of debate for years. There has, I am glad to say, because it seems that if I were to insist on dividing the been widespread welcome for the Bill. The Local House, there is little doubt about the outcome. However, Government Association called it a “long-awaited and I am content to say that on this occasion I will not much-needed measure”. In the other place there was a press for a Division, although of course there will be strong majority in favour of its principles. During other occasions. I conclude by making this statement: House of Commons considerations, parts of the Bill I believe that the amendment has been carried nem of course raised considerable debate—I appreciate con, and I therefore beg to withdraw the amendment. that we will return to them again—such as aspects of the provisions on mayors, particularly shadow mayors, Amendment withdrawn. the impact of social housing reforms and the fine detail of some of the planning provisions. The Motion agreed. Government consistently sought to build on common ground and consensus. In keeping with this, we will seek to make amendments, where they will improve Arrangement of Business the Bill, that arise from the discussion at each stage. Announcement Already in response to concerns raised in the other place, the Government have brought forward a number 3.50 pm of amendments—in particular, to strengthen strategic planning by bolstering the duty to co-operate and to Baroness Anelay of St Johns: My Lords, 51 speakers widen provisions on neighbourhood planning to make have signed up for the Second Reading of the Localism neighbourhood forums more inclusive of both local Bill today. If Back-Bench contributions are kept to people and local businesses. As we start our considerations, 7 minutes, the House should be able to rise at around I can assure noble Lords that the Government will the target rising time of 11 o’clock. Of course, the continue to listen and, where possible, make amendments advisory timing excludes the Minister’s opening and that are justified and supported across the House. winding-up speeches and the opposition Front-Bench There will be parts of the Bill on which we may not be spokesperson’s opening and winding-up speeches. It able to reach agreement, but I hope that they will be might be convenient for the House if I remind colleagues few. My colleagues and noble friends Lord Taylor of of our guidance in paragraph 4.32 of the Companion, Holbeach and Lord Attlee and I will want to take which states: account of what is said and to develop consensus “A Member of the House who is taking part in a debate is where possible. expected to attend the greater part of that debate. It is considered discourteous for a Member not to be present for the opening I shall now turn to the main provisions of the Bill. speeches, for at least the speech before and following their own, Noble Lords will know well the importance of local and for the winding-up speeches”. government in providing leadership and essential services I am sure that that will assist us all to keep to an to their local communities. The Bill seeks to give local advisory speaking time. government wider discretion to get on with that vital job. At the heart of the Bill is the general power of competence. Currently, councils can do only what Localism Bill legislation explicitly says they may do. With the general Second Reading power of competence, they will be able to do anything that an individual can legally do. Concerns have been raised that the Bill means that local authorities will be 3.51 pm able, for example, to stop providing valuable services. Moved by Baroness Hanham That is not so. Just as individuals have to obey the law, so councils will continue to be bound by their legislative That the Bill be read a second time. duties. What the general power of competence will do 149 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 150

[BARONESS HANHAM] We turn now to planning. The trend towards central is give councils freedom to formulate new ideas and to control has been particularly damaging in the planning do things in different ways in response to what local system and the Government believe that it is now time people want without having to look over their shoulder to introduce far greater democratic and local control. for permission from the centre to do so. The regional strategies, which set housing targets for Under the Bill, the Secretary of State will have different parts of the country and then had to be delegated powers to remove legislative barriers that implemented by local authorities, will be abolished. prevent local authorities exercising the general power. They did not result in more houses being built. Indeed, There was debate in the other place about the extent of last year, rates of housebuilding hit their lowest point these delegated powers, and amendments were made in peacetime since the 1920s. there to ensure that robust safeguards are in place. The Bill will transfer the power to make decisions The Bill will abolish the unpopular standards board on nationally significant infrastructure projects such regime, provide stronger sanctions against serious unethical as power stations, airports and major roads from behaviour by councillors and clarify the predetermination appointees in the Infrastructure Planning Commission rules. It will lay the ground for a new generation of to democratically accountable Ministers. It will introduce mayors in England’s largest cities. I am aware that this a duty to co-operate, requiring local authorities to measure has generated a good deal of interest and work together on strategic planning issues. At a more some controversy. It is our view, however, that directly local level, it introduces a duty on developers to consult elected mayors have the potential to provide stronger local communities before they put forward applications leadership and enhance the prestige of their cities. It for large developments. Most radically of all, it will would, of course, ultimately be for local people to allow people to have a stronger say in the planning of decide, via a referendum, whether they wanted an their neighbourhoods. Under these provisions, local elected mayor for their city. The Bill will devolve to the people will be able to come together to form a Mayor of London greater powers over London’s housing, neighbourhood forum and produce a neighbourhood regeneration and economic development. plan for developments in their area, such as where With central direction having been rolled back, it they consider would be most suitable for new homes, will also be necessary to ensure that local authorities shops and businesses. As long as these plans are are accountable for all the decisions they take. For consistent with the national planning policy framework example, where authorities fail to act in accordance and the local plan, development can be granted through with EU directives, and where this results in the EU a neighbourhood development order so that construction taking infraction proceedings against the United can go ahead quickly. At the same time, the new Kingdom, it will be important that culpable local homes bonus and the community infrastructure levy authorities take responsibility for their actions. will benefit local communities where new development Localism does not mean simply that all power takes place. should rest in the hands of local authorities. Although Ultimately, it is right that local responsibility and the town hall plays a crucial role in local life, it is often local incentives replace top-down control, creating the local people—conscientious neighbours, responsible right conditions for communities to welcome development residents, volunteers and social entrepreneurs—who and growth in their areas. The Bill makes clear that the undertake the responsibility of making communities use of financial incentives, such as the community stronger. As a general rule, however, they can get infrastructure levy, can be a material consideration in involved in local decision-making only to the extent the planning process, although they do not have to be. that their council welcomes and encourages their involvement, so the Bill creates new rights for local Lastly, I turn to the Bill’s provisions on housing. people and local community groups. Under the right Social housing will provide 8 million people in England to challenge, social enterprises, voluntary and community with a home. The Bill proposes a much greater level of groups and parish councils will have the right to discretion for councils and social landlords to manage challenge the council to consider seriously their proposals social housing more flexibly. New provisions will give for the improvement of local services. social landlords more flexibility over the length of Similarly, the Bill will give community groups the tenancy they may grant. The minimum length will be right to bid to buy assets of community value. Where two years, although we expect that longer terms will buildings and businesses such as local shops, pubs and be offered in the majority of cases. There is a clear community facilities are listed under the Bill’s provisions acknowledgement that where tenants are likely to as being important to local people and come up for remain in need, long-term tenancies will be the norm. sale, community groups will be given time to put Vulnerable and existing tenants will not be affected by together a credible bid to buy the facility that will have these changes. Councils will of course continue to be to be taken into consideration before the vendor can able to offer lifetime tenancies. continue with the sale. We have also discussed in depth in the other place, Local people will have the right to petition their and with practitioners, the Bill’s proposals to let local council to hold a referendum on any local policy or authorities meet their homelessness duty by providing issue that is contentious and important to them. Councils applicants with good quality homes in the private will be required to hold a referendum where they rented sector. This option could provide an appropriate propose to charge a council tax in excess of an agreed solution for people experiencing a homelessness crisis percentage increase. Local people, rather than the at the same time as freeing up social homes for people Secretary of State, will therefore be able to veto the on the waiting list. The Bill will also change the way in rise. which social housing is funded, passing more power to 151 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 152 a local level by replacing the complex and unpopular 1,296 statutory duties. Even the vaunted power of housing revenue account subsidy. Councils will be able general competence is qualified by Clause 5(3), giving to keep the rent raised locally to maintain their social the Secretary of State power by order to prevent local homes. This will give them a more predictable and authorities doing anything he specifies. stable basis to plan for the long term. It is impossible in the 15 minutes available to me to Finally, the Bill will reform the way in which social enumerate, let alone discuss, all the concerns raised by housing is regulated. The Tenant Services Authority the Bill’s provisions. I will concentrate on the issues of will be abolished and landlords will be expected to governance, and on the impact of the measure as a support tenant panels—or equivalent bodies—in order whole on local government and representative local to give tenants greater opportunities to scrutinise the democracy. My noble friend Lord McKenzie will speak services that are being offered and that they are receiving. to the planning and finance issues, and my noble This is an important Bill, with measures that will friend Lord Patel of Bradford on housing and community have a great impact on every aspect of the responsibilities engagement. I am sure that many noble Lords on all of local government and the rights of local people in sides of the House will wish to raise many of the the future. As I said at the beginning, there has been detailed provisions of the Bill and the accompanying much consensus already about its provisions. I hope documentation. that, when there has been such agreement in the other The Government’s approach seems in many respects place, that will guide considerations here. We have to be driven by a belief in an apparently inexhaustible much to do, and the noble Lord, Lord Taylor, the appetite on the part of citizens to vote—for elected noble Earl, Lord Attlee, and I look forward to the mayors or police commissioners, or in referendums forthcoming debate. I commend the Bill to the House. called by a fraction of the electorate, a neighbourhood I beg to move. forum, or a handful of councillors. This assumed insatiable thirst for Athenian-style democracy—and 4.04 pm Mr Pickles is, after all, only two letters short of Pericles—is Lord Beecham: My Lords, I congratulate the Minister matched in ministerial minds by a demand on the part on the customary skill and charm with which she has of the public directly to manage local services. Let me introduced this Bill. It was an impressive example of be clear. There is, and must always be, space in a mixed carrying out my ancestral trade of making bricks economy of provision for voluntary and community without straw. I am delighted that the noble Baroness’s organisations as service providers. Their commitment long service to local government is about to be recognised and capacity to innovate enrich civil society. But most by the conferment upon her of the freedom of the of those engaged in the sector acknowledge that they Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, of which complement the statutory services and neither wish, she was such a distinguished leader. nor expect, to replace them. This Bill, which purports to herald the renaissance I turn to some of the more problematic provisions of local government and shape a new localism, sprawls of the Bill, rooted as they are in the philosophy I have over 510 pages, with 215 clauses and 25 schedules. just outlined. I begin with mayors. At any time in the Together with 111 pages of Explanatory Notes, it last 10 years a mere 5 per cent of the electorate could weighs two pounds, 13 ounces, to which must be have requisitioned a mayoral referendum in England’s added impact assessments weighing all of eight pounds, towns and cities. Few have been called, fewer still have 11 ounces. As Churchill might have said, “Some impact, approved the idea, and neither in referendums nor in some assessment”. No wonder the Government have any ensuing mayoral elections, except when they have had second thoughts about their plans for forestry. coincided with general elections, has the result been There are some welcome provisions. The local higher turnouts than in traditional local elections. government world has long called for a power of I have always been sceptical of the argument that a general competence, although candidly when asked direct personal mandate is a necessary condition of what difference it would make, many of us have had effective local leadership. The concentration of power some difficulty in identifying what the practical effects in a single pair of hands is inherently undesirable, and would be, given the existing powers to improve the it is also unnecessary; it diminishes the role of other environmental, social and economic well-being of areas. elected members, and there is no reason why the grant However, changes to small business rate relief and the of more powers to local authorities, which would be housing revenue account, the latter building on work welcome, should be conditional on there being a mayoral initiated by the last Government, and the promotion system. But if sufficient people want elected mayors, of a duty to co-operate are also being well received, they can easily secure the process, set it in motion and and few except some estate agents will mourn the achieve their objective now. It is perhaps not without passing of home information packs. significance that Nick Boles, now MP for Grantham, But overall the Bill, studded with populist gesture succeeding my noble friend Lord Davies, urged the politics, is redolent of the prejudices—indeed, it would adoption of the mayoral system as potentially providing not be an exaggeration to say some of the obsessions—of a ladder back to power for the Conservative Party in the Secretary of State. I cite, for example, provisions places like Manchester, where its prospects under the about chief executives and pay, or the banning of existing system continue to look a little bleak. The charge and reward schemes for waste collection. The Bill, however, requires confirmatory referendums to Secretary of State takes to himself 142 powers and, in take place in 12 English cities where the Government what seems a remarkable echo of the Public Bodies ordain that the mayoral system should apply. When Bill, powers to abolish or amend by order up to she replies to the debate, perhaps the Minister would 153 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 154

[LORD BEECHAM] the right to address councils. In any case it is the give a definitive answer to the question of whether and practice of most although, I have to submit, not all in what circumstances the Government would extend councils increasingly to engage their local communities this requirement to other local authorities. about the decisions which affect them. Much worse than that proposal are two further As the noble Baroness pointed out, the Bill provides extraordinary provisions concerning shadow mayors, for compulsory referendums on the council tax levy to which the noble Baroness made glancing reference, where it is deemed excessive by the Secretary of State. and the delightfully euphemistically termed “mayoral This is capping by the back door, applied perhaps in management arrangements”. Under new Section 9N different ways to different classes of authority, but in Schedule 2 the Secretary of State may order a shadow without any close regard to the circumstances of the mayor to be appointed in an authority due to hold a individual authority and with no ability to modify the referendum, in the first instance in the 12 authorities cap after a referendum, as would be the case under targeted for next May, who will be the executive leader the present—and, in the views of many of us, still at the date of the order. He will have the full range of unsatisfactory—system. But why should a referendum mayoral powers until either the referendum fails or an on council tax, especially given the complexity of the elected mayor takes office. In Birmingham, for example, local government finance system, displace the role of a Conservative council leader would be appointed the ballot box and elections in holding councils to shadow mayor and continue to hold office, assuming a account? referendum next year confirmed the mayoral model, for a further year from next May even though it is When it comes to planning and what the Bill terms highly probable that Labour will take control of that “community empowerment”, there are again many council then. The nearest precedent that occurs to me, problems. In these areas, the impression is given that though absolutely without the horrific overtones of communities are inherently self-contained, able in large the original, is the Anschluss: occupy Austria first and measure to determine their own preferences in isolation. have a referendum afterwards. Of course, for some purposes and in some areas—for example, parish councils—this may well be true, but if Yet that is not all. In those of the 12 authorities I look at my own experience in the ward I represent in which end up with elected mayors, the positions of the west end of Newcastle, I can count around 23 distinct mayor and chief executive will have to be combined areas in that ward alone, with a population of some while other authorities with a leader and executive 11,000. Those are in addition to communities of interest, model will have to consider this novel, and in my based—as they might be—on age, gender, ethnicity, judgment, wholly inappropriate conflation of the political class or employment. It is the function of local government and officer roles. It does not seem appropriate that the to mediate those interests and, with its partners, to political head of a local authority should effectively be shape the future not only of the individual areas but of the head of paid service. Contrast this with the separation the whole city or county. of roles prescribed by the Cadbury rules in the private sector. This is not local democracy but local autocracy. The raft of propositions about neighbourhood These two proposals are the most objectionable in forums—now expanded from the original three men what is in many respects a deeply flawed Bill. I trust and a dog in the first draft of the Bill to 21 people—the that through today’s debate, if it does nothing else, the significantly named “community right to challenge” House will send a clear message to the Government over the provision of services, and the provisions that those proposals are totally unacceptable, and an relating to community expressions of interest all have affront to democracy and good governance. some potential for good. However, they also raise the dangers of nimbyism and the atomisation of local Less fundamental but still serious misgivings arise governance, which are of a piece with other government from other proposals. Take, as an example, the provisions policies, such as those we see in education or the for referendums. Non-binding referendums may be wholesale abandonment of regional or sub-regional called by 5 per cent of the authority’s total electorate structures, except for a vague duty to co-operate. or, in the case of a single electoral area—or two or Others will no doubt enlarge on these and other issues more contiguous electoral areas or wards—by 5 per during this debate and in more detail in Committee. cent of the electors in that area or areas. They may also be called by one or more members of the authority, I wish to conclude with two more worrying matters. or in the case of a ward by a majority of members for The first relates to issues of propriety.I am disturbed—and the relevant area, or by one member if there is only so are some of the professional bodies—by the provisions one representing that ward. There are very limited relating to predetermination on the part of members grounds on which a council can decline to hold such a in relation to planning matters. This appears to me to referendum. I fear that the potential for mischief here breach the quasi-judicial approach appropriate to such is simply enormous. issues in planning and licensing. In addition to that, Political, religious or ethnic groups, possibly people there is the proposal to make the existence of a community with extremist views—perhaps even worse, disgruntled infrastructure levy a material consideration in planning. or attention- or election-seeking councillors in their That could be regarded in effect as an inducement to wards—could generate referendums without limit, sell planning permissions by the local authority. damaging community cohesion or effectively delaying The second concern is again a matter touched on the implementation of properly derived decision-making. lightly by the noble Baroness the Minister. It is the There are better alternatives at present: for example, power under Part 2 of the Bill to require councils to the councillor’s call for action, citizen’s petitions—the pay fines levied by the European Union in respect of provisions for which the Bill, incidentally, abolishes—and breaches of treaty obligations. I recently tabled a 155 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 156

Question to ask what estimate had been made of the would find that there were really only two parties—the potential UK liability in this respect, rumoured to be central government party and the local government in excess of £1 billion. The reply from the noble Lord, party. In the years since I have found that he was Lord Sassoon—who is not in his place—was that no absolutely right. I see that the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, such penalty had been incurred by the UK and none who has similar experience, agrees with me. I suspect was anticipated. In which case perhaps the noble we will find this many times during the progress of the Baroness the Minister could say why there is such a Bill through your Lordships’ House. provision in the Bill at all? If I must declare myself as a member of either of Finally there is one delicious irony in the Bill. those parties, I am firmly in the local government Clause 28 repeals the duty to promote democracy party.However, it is not as simple as that. My commitment which is established by Part 1 of the Local Democracy, is not particularly to a system, or a level—I prefer the Economic Development and Construction Act 2009. word “sphere”—of government; it is to local democracy, A Bill purportedly about local democracy repeals the and to local government only as the best vehicle for duty to promote it. I need not—and your Lordships delivering local democracy. I am the first to say that will be pleased to hear that I will not—say more. local government is not always very good at doing that. Indeed, some local councils can be as controlling 4.19 pm and reluctant to share their power as any central Lord Tope: My Lords, I, like the noble Lord, Lord Government. Therefore, I was delighted when I first Beecham, begin by congratulating the noble Baroness learnt that the coalition Government intended to introduce Lady Hanham on receiving the freedom of the Royal a Bill that would give effect to my party’s long-held Borough of Kensington and Chelsea. I am not sure commitment to localism, or rather to local democracy. what privileges that confers upon her—she shakes her I must admit that the same commitment from our head rather sadly. Nevertheless it is a well-deserved coalition partners does not have quite the same long honour. I also thank the Minister for the manner in pedigree, but blessed are the sinners who repent and which she introduced this Bill today.I welcome particularly we should welcome the zealousness of the converts. her statement that the Government are still willing to However, too many statements and some actions by listen and to try to address remaining concerns in the some Ministers have led me to wonder whether we Bill where that is possible. That is certainly the approach share the same understanding of the word “localism”. that my noble friends and I will adopt and I hope it is Indeed, parts of the Bill lead me to the same conclusion. one that will be shared on all sides of the House. To I looked up “localism” in my dictionary, which defines this end, it will be helpful if the Minister can agree it as, today that any further amendments that the Government “a pronunciation, phrase, etc., peculiar to a particular locality”, already have in mind will be introduced in Committee so that they can receive proper scrutiny and debate or “another word for provincialism”—another word then and, if necessary, at later stages of the Bill. I had never heard of. I suppose that is a little better than “subsidiarity”, which is not in my dictionary at As has been said, this is a huge Bill with many all. I will not attempt a definition today, but it seems important and quite difficult provisions. I have half strange that we should have a Bill with a one-word the time available to me that the noble Lord, Lord title that clearly means very different things to different Beecham, had, and he began by confessing that he was people, and parts of which seem to contradict a common unable to address most of those provisions. My 10 Liberal understanding of its title. Democrat colleagues who will speak later in this debate will certainly refer to many of them, notably those on To me, and I am sure to all my Liberal Democrat housing and planning. If time had permitted today, I colleagues, it means local democracy and subsidiarity: would have dealt with some of those in the early parts decisions being taken as closely as possible by and of the Bill, such as why some councils will have to wait with the people they affect. That includes the right to three or four years—until after their next elections—to make the wrong decisions or, more accurately, decisions implement the governance changes they may wish to with which some of us, including and perhaps especially make. I would also have referred to the imposition of central government, may disagree. We on the Liberal the EU fines and the many issues that are raised by the Democrat Benches will judge the Bill by the extent to provisions on local referendums. Above all, I would which it enables and enhances local democracy, and have wanted to know how the imposition by the the extent to which it reduces or removes central Secretary of State of unelected shadow mayors can control and interference. possibly fit in a Bill entitled “Localism”. Here it is important to understand that local democracy Instead, as this is the Second Reading, I shall is not populism. It is not rule by the best organised, confine my remarks to the principles of localism. I the most articulate, those who shout loudest or have declare an interest as an executive councillor in the the greatest vested interests; it is a system that allows London Borough of Sutton. I have now been a councillor all voices to be heard and listened to with equal there for 37 years and was a Member of Parliament respect, allows the decision-makers to be better informed for exactly half that time. I was initially in the other when they make decisions and ensures that such decisions place for a short time before I was first elected as a are made in the interests of the whole community. councillor. Shortly after I became a councillor, when I Above all, it is a system that ensures that the decision- still had slightly longer service as an MP than as a makers are properly and effectively accountable to all councillor, the Conservative leader on my council, the people affected by those decisions. We might even who was also the Conservative leader on the then choose to call such a system “local government”. For Association of Metropolitan Authorities, told me I localism to work it is not necessary for central government 157 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 158

[LORD TOPE] My local authority colleagues argue that the 146 new to like local government, still less to like all that it central government powers—from processes for does, but if central government is genuinely committed appointing local mayors to the powers for levying EU to localism it has to trust local government, and to fines, the arrangements for referendums and the demonstrate that trust. bureaucratic procedures for implementing new community My noble friends and I look forward to working rights—all mean that the Bill has tightened the grip with the Minister to ensure that by the time this Bill of the Secretary of State. Others argue that double leaves this House it is truly worthy of its title as the devolution to the neighbourhood level introduces a Localism Bill, a Bill of which we can all be proud. nimbys’ charter that will undermine the new financial incentives, through a new homes bonus and a community 4.25 pm infrastructure levy, for councils to secure badly needed extra homes. Lord Best: My Lords, I declare my local government On the theme of housing, I want to address the interests as president of the Local Government proposals for the reform of the local authority housing Association and deputy chairman of Westminster City revenue accounts. I fear that they have missed the Council’s standards board. I declare my voluntary and opportunity to allow councils to act more like housing community sector interests as a member of the NCVO associations in their freedom to borrow private finance advisory board and a trustee of the RSA and other and to recycle proceeds from land and property sales. voluntary and charitable bodies, my social housing One step forward, one step back? At this stage of the interests as chair of the Hanover Housing Association, Bill’s progress, I have both fears and hopes. I fear that and my planning interests as vice-president of the until greater financial autonomy is passed down the Town and Country Planning Association. There go line, local authorities will remain ultimately the creatures my seven minutes. of the mighty Whitehall departments. I recognise that These interests sometimes lead me to take contradictory at this moment it is particularly difficult for localists to positions in the localism debate. One day I could be argue against civil servants who say, “Yes Minister, but advocating more “power to the people” when arguing not now”. I hope that the Government will be a bit against an apparently high-handed central or local braver in letting go, supported by the noble Baroness, government decision; the next day I may be fearing alongside many amendments on specific topics. I hope that a so-called local community group really comprises that your Lordships will remove some of the measures self-appointed and self-interested individuals intent that undermine the Bill’s localising objectives and that on blocking a much needed social or economic we will end up with legislation that genuinely decentralises development for purely selfish reasons. I am a champion to democratic local councils and gives them confidence of decentralisation from Whitehall but, wearing my to devolve decisions to communities keen to play their social housing hat, I can feel outrage when the Supporting part in resolving local issues. People grants for local councils to help homeless and vulnerable people are siphoned off by some authorities If we are to stimulate a more empowered, more for quite different purposes. I am concerned that stepping resourceful local government sector that will attract back from national standards in the planning system leadership of the highest calibre and to unlock the could mean poorer design. I am nervous about measures energy and good will of a big society, a good society, to remove national protections on rent levels and we must ensure that the Bill takes us two steps security of tenure for social housing tenants. I sympathise forward. with those who decry the postcode lottery when a 4.31 pm council uses its autonomy to cut disabled facilities grants that are so vital to helping people live independently The Lord Bishop of Norwich: My Lords, I begin by at home. saying that a family bereavement this morning means There are inherent ambiguities and contradictions that if the House sits much longer than the estimated in the localism theme. By definition, fewer impositions rising time I may have to leave to return to Norwich. I of national requirements mean more local variations hope that that will not be necessary, but I apologise to in services, and that inevitably means losers as well as the House if that proves to be so. gainers, especially when, as now, resources are being There have been frequent pleas from these Benches fiercely cut back. However, colours must be nailed to over the years to listen to the voice of local communities, the mast; I for one accept that despite some discomfort so the overall aim of the Bill is certainly to be welcomed. and the inevitability of some local mistakes, the Widespread disengagement from the political process overarching intent of this Bill to move down the path is often linked with a feeling of powerlessness, and there of localism is sensible and worthwhile. Unless national is a need to restore a belief that the structures of our government gives councils room to stand on their own public life are not too complex to navigate or framed feet and to learn to use their local knowledge, local wholly in favour of those who already have power or ideas and local talent, the dead hand of centralism wealth. will for ever demoralise and disincentivise, national The Bill goes some distance in its effort to counter standardisation will suppress initiative and innovation, that widespread impression, and so wins my heart. It and Big Brother taking the decisions will deter local is my head that needs more convincing, because the involvement and put people off participating as councillors Bill’s 400 pages—I see that they have grown to 500 pages and community leaders. Scrutiny in Committee will according to what the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, need to test whether the Bill really moves us in this said—are so complex. Will the very complexity of direction, or whether for every step forward there is a what we are being offered undermine the Bill’s good step back. intentions? Will the politically literate, the well resourced, 159 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 160 be likely to make the most use of its provisions; and do The restrictions on councils producing their own we need quite so many separate powers to regulate newspapers may be understandable but, if they could this, guide that or control the other? afford it, is there anything preventing local neighbourhood As I attempted to navigate my way through the forums from publishing their own local newspaper, or proposals, one of the episodes of “Yes, Prime Minister” would they be subject to the same restrictions? I am came to my mind. Your Lordships may recall that, for not yet convinced that online communication, democratic a short time, Jim Hacker toyed with the idea of taking as access to it is, fully replaces these other agencies of power away from the local government machine and local democracy. I would be grateful if the Minister returning it to the people. The proposal was to create would comment on how this Bill relates to the city villages, each with its own little council, a sort of Government’s wider policy on the local and regional Hackeresque neighbourhood forum. At the time, Hacker media. There seems to be some distance between them. was locked in almost mortal combat with a glamorous It is inevitable that passing authority to the local left-wing council leader, Agnes Moorhouse, but they and neighbourhood level will create more local argument. eventually found common cause when they realised Individuals in neighbourhoods speak with more than that plans for truly representative local democracy one voice. We should not fear this, and I presume this would entirely undermine the party-political machine. is why local referenda are included as a means of I could not help wondering whether some elements of resolving local disputations. A closely fought referendum, the complexity of the Bill were not driven by a similar although it may decide an issue, leaves a lot of losers. dynamic. Only about 35 per cent of the population of There may be some healing of wounds to be done in England live in areas where there is a parish or town local communities if the good purposes of this Bill are council. The bulk of the population of this country, fulfilled. The role of our church communities and urban as it is, lives in unparished areas, as many noble their clergy and other community groups in the healing Lords will know. Intriguingly, the only genuinely parished of such wounds might well be needed. However, we organisation is the Church of England. More people ought to recognise that more localism may not mean serve on parochial church councils than parish councils. more harmony and unity in society. If we do not The power of the PCC, elected bodies all, is one recognise that, we will be doing all the purposes of this reason why local decision-making is still so significant Bill and the people it serves a disservice. in the Church of England. It is one reason why it is 4.38 pm almost impossible to get a clear answer when asking what the Church of England thinks about anything. Baroness Eaton: My Lords, first, I declare an interest There are around 16,000 answers to any question. as chairman of the Local Government Association. There are very distinctive differences between one That is a great honour which I will hold for only a few neighbourhood and another. Indeed, even defining more weeks. However, after that time, I hope to continue “neighbourhood” is not without its problems. It is left to contribute on behalf of local government in this largely undefined in this Bill, yet there is a vast difference place. Having the pleasure of speaking after the right in a diocese like mine between rural settlements of reverend Prelate the Bishop of Norwich and other little more than 100 people—we still call them villages noble Lords, I am reminded of the wealth of experience in Norfolk—and city parishes in Norwich with 20,000 and knowledge in this House that continues to benefit people. local government enormously. In the “Vicar of Dibley” you can never quite tell As a councillor, I have represented the ward of whether it is the parochial church council or the parish Bingley Rural since 1986 and served as leader of a council that is meeting, such is the entirely understandable large metropolitan authority, Bradford, from 2000 to overlap between village and church affairs. Yet in an 2006. I have seen first-hand how local government urban parish of 20,000 people, which likes to think of makes a positive difference to the lives of local people, itself as a neighbourhood, a handful of activists can whether through involving communities closely in local be the voice of the local community or church while planning and development or responding to local demand the neighbourhood, such as it is, feels largely disengaged for new services, new facilities and new ideas. Councils from them. In a complex Bill, that real complexity on and councillors really are at the heart of their the ground is not recognised. neighbourhoods, but equally I have experienced huge frustration when, as a councillor, I have been told, The positive features of this Bill—neighbourhood “You don’t have the power to do that” or “You can’t plans, forums and development orders, as well as any stray outside Whitehall guidelines”. This gave the potential for further directly elected mayors and local impression that local government was nothing more referenda—all require lively agencies of local democracy. than the delivery agent for central government policy. These have traditionally included local newspapers This did a disservice to the excellent, innovative thinking and, in the past generation, local radio. The dramatic from councillors and officers and led to a relationship decline in advertising revenue in local newspapers has in which councils felt compelled to wait for central made that sector very fragile. It has meant that the government guidance on all sorts of issues in case they number of young journalists cutting their teeth in the got a ticking off from Whitehall for being too keen. local and regional press has been dramatically reduced. That is why I, and so many others in local government, Some cuts in BBC local radio now seem inevitable have welcomed the Government’s localism drive. In with the freezing of the licence fee. Local and regional October last year the Secretary of State said: commercial radio now carries very little news at all. “The years of government interference and micromanagement Only community radio, staffed largely by volunteers, are over. Instead, we’re starting an era of genuine local leadership beats the trend and could serve the purposes of this ... part of my campaign to replace the command and control Bill well if sufficiently funded. approach to local government with genuine localism”. 161 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 162

[BARONESS EATON] mentioned, that are legislated for in the Bill. Each This was cause enough for one of those street parties comes with guidance and rules to follow. We will see that the Government have been so keen on in recent local referenda on council taxes if a council suggests a months. There have been many positive moves in the rise above the maximum rate; referenda on any local past year that demonstrate a real commitment to matter, subject to determination by the Secretary of localising and devolving power. We have seen the end State as to what constitutes a local matter; and of ring-fencing and the scrapping of the comprehensive confirmatory referenda for shadow mayors and area agreement, a barrier-busting exercise to scrap neighbourhood plans. I half expect to see a referendum rules that block local government from doing its job. on holding a referendum. This is important work and it has been welcomed It is important that we do not sideline local democracy across local government. Now, in the Localism Bill, in the push for local action and that we remember that the Government have set out their radical vision for councillors are democratically elected to take decisions how local people will be much more involved in the on behalf of the people they serve. It would not be decisions that affect their neighbourhoods. right for a referendum to be held simply to please The Bill is full of good ideas. Local government has Whitehall when there was no local demand for it or particularly welcomed the general power of competence, when it negated an elected council’s mandate. This something which we have requested for many years. would be expensive, damaging and wasteful, at a time The well-being power, which the general power will when we in local government are doing everything we replace, was found to be wanting and left councils can to curb waste. unwilling to use it for fear of their good work being Councils are also very worried about the EU fine overturned by the courts. A much stronger, more clauses that we have already heard about. The Local robust power of first resort has long been needed, and Government Association has argued that these are I am glad to see this in the Bill. The reform of the unfair and unconstitutional and noted that they give discredited and overcomplicated housing finance system unprecedented powers to Ministers to fine councils is also very welcome, and I hope that the Government without scrutiny by Parliament or by the courts. Certainly will look at expanding this reform to give councils the there is concern that this policy, if unamended, could freedom they need to invest in social housing. lead to long, expensive court proceedings as one part The Local Government Association has applauded of government seeks to pass blame to another. This is the Government’s intentions, but also expressed concern not a situation that any of us would like to see, and we that in some places the Bill continues to use the should do all we can to avoid it. Councils have committed legislative tools of times gone by, tools that have now to working closely with government to ensure that we been discredited. What we do not want to see—I am are not fined in the first place. I hope that the Minister sure that my noble friend the Minister will agree—is will reconsider this part of the Bill in Committee. an overly bureaucratic approach to localism that brings I stress in conclusion that I entirely support the with it reams of Whitehall prescription and guidance. intentions of the Bill. Local government has spent too This approach can only block creativity and innovation. long ticking boxes and kow-towing to the demands of Councils do not need more guidance to follow. In central government, and it is very clear that this must fact, this is the very mindset that we need to get away come to an end. We must then ensure that the Bill from. What works well in central Manchester will not achieves its lofty aims. I look forward to continuing be suitable for rural Cumbria, and centralised prescription these enlightening discussions in Committee. takes no account of this. I do not believe that any council requires detailed rules on how to hold a 4.48 pm referendum or how to keep a list of community assets. Lord Patel of Bradford: My Lords, in the short time I am sure that this House will look closely at all parts available I will focus my comments on two areas of the of the Bill that give Whitehall powers to issue guidance Bill that will have a great impact on local communities and determine whether these are necessary or appropriate and councils: community empowerment, covered in in the post-bureaucratic age we now live in. Part 4 of the Bill, and housing reforms, covered in It is also important that the Localism Bill does not Part 6. allow for central government to force its will onto I will start with community empowerment, which local people. This is antithetical to everything that the could be described as the “people power” element of Government are trying to achieve and I do not believe the Bill. This part of the Bill gives a community the that it was ever Ministers’ intention. I am concerned right to challenge a council over the provision of local that the policy on mayors, which will allow central services, and a new right to buy local assets such as government to require an area to have a “shadow libraries, swimming pools and community centres. mayor” and then hold a confirmatory referendum, is Make no mistake: I am in favour of giving people a the wrong path to take. The change should come only greater say in the way their local communities and after local people have decided that it is desirable, not services are run. I have spent much of my career before. I also do not think that elected mayors should promoting this very issue and I have learnt that it is be required to merge with chief executives. Their roles not enough to focus on removing suspected barriers, are resolutely separate, and the political impartiality for example by increasing the powers of local authorities of the chief executive is an important and long-standing to commission services from the voluntary and community precedent. sectors. The issue is not lack of interest. We know that I also look forward to detailed discussion of the there is a great appetite in those sectors to do more, provisions on referenda. There are five different types but they can do more only if they are given the right of referenda, as the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, kind of support to make it happen. 163 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 164

We will see a transformation in the way that we than the one-sided and divisive approach in the Bill. If provide public services in this country only if we public services are not being delivered effectively, there provide investment to ensure that there is capacity is no right of challenge to redress that. building, including training, guidance and coaching, I want briefly to consider Part 6 of the Bill, which alongside support for infrastructure development, in contains the housing provisions. I am deeply concerned place for the new commissioning arrangements to by these provisions. The provision of social housing is work. This is even more vital in these times of fiscal one of the great and essential public goods of our society. constraints and major cuts in core funding for local For those on low incomes, social housing provides, government. When this is considered in the context of through security of tenure, the means to continue a Bill that seeks to increase community involvement working and to enjoy private and family life. It sustains and service delivery, it leads me to question whether cohesion in our communities. the proposals are a poor attempt to replace highly The arguments put forward in defence of the housing developed and expert services, which deal day by day provisions are that “flexible” tenancies should give with a variety of complex and challenging community more freedom to local authority landlords and allow needs, with an underdeveloped and poorly resourced them to manage their stock more effectively and should alternative. This is not the way to empower communities. ensure that the occupation of social housing better And what of fairness? We have already seen the reflects actual need. The provisions will allow local extreme differences in impact across authorities, especially authorities to offer fixed tenancies for a minimum of between the north and south of the country, that the two years, rather than secure lifetime tenancies, which government cuts have produced—cuts that clearly are are the norm at the moment. It is clear, however, that having a more profound effect in the most deprived this provision has not taken into account the devastating and disadvantaged areas. The Government fail to impact that short-term tenancies can have on the most recognise that not all communities have the same level vulnerable in our communities. For example, having to of resources—either financial or professional. This move several times can have the most profound effect Government have said that fairness is at the heart of on the mental health of children—indeed, on the their reforms. Would the Minister explain how the whole family. Government see fairness working in this Bill? What What about the broader impact on the whole happens to minority groups that are excluded from the community? Short-term tenure reduces new tenants’ process? How will their voices be heard and how will commitment to their neighbourhood and homes. It the Government ensure that communities with fewer undermines their willingness to invest time and energy resources are not left disadvantaged? in the fabric of the housing, the garden and the local The right to challenge, which is intended to put environment. There is also the very unpleasant suggestion voluntary and community charities on the front behind these housing clauses that social housing is to foot when it comes to running public services, is be viewed as some kind of failure to move on and meaningless without the investment to make it work. make the most of life. This ignores the fact that, Words in a Bill will not empower local groups to throughout their lives, individuals and families already challenge local authority bureaucracy and poor have pathways through which they can move into performance if they lack the support that will give different housing types and tenures and through different them the time, the understanding and the skills to styles of accommodation in different neighbourhoods. carry out this challenge. In fact, by reducing security of tenure, this Government This is not being condescending, but of course will bring about a much greater restriction on social local people know more about what works and how mobility. Furthermore, I can envisage a situation where things should be done in an area—they are the ones these provisions result in more people complaining who experience services at first hand. In fact, there are and seeking to redress what will clearly be a more many examples of this kind of community challenge unfair and discriminatory process. and involvement taking place. We must ask, however, This brings me to one further issue that I can only what would motivate people to want to do more, such assume is an error in a Bill that seeks to empower as taking over services or assets rather than have the people. I refer to the reform of social housing regulations council deliver them. If community groups get involved in Clause 158. Currently, any person who feels that a in running these services, how will we ensure that they complaint has not received satisfaction locally is entitled are properly accountable on service standards and use to take the complaint to the Housing Ombudsman. of public money? The right to challenge offers no People may choose, if they wish, to involve their local redress to those communities. It simply does not empower MP or elected councillors in this process. Under the them. new provisions in the Bill, this right is to be replaced The Government seem to expect that the shifts in by an additional layer of bureaucracy that will require power from councils to local communities can occur people first to involve MPs, councillors or tenants without the right levels of investment. But without panels in resolving complaints locally before they are this investment, many of the essential processes will sent to the ombudsman. Will the Minister say why this not be in place and this will place unintended new additional layer of bureaucracy is regarded as necessary burdens on the community and voluntary sectors, for housing regulation? Does this mean that the which will have to navigate a way through this new Government intend to restrict all ombudsman services system. Will the Minister tell me why the right cannot in this manner in future? be used in reverse and why the direction of travel is I move on to what I think is one of the Bill’s most only one way? Surely, what we need is a partnership potentially harmful provisions: the reform of the between local government and communities rather homelessness legislation. Under this provision, the 165 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 166

[LORD PATEL OF BRADFORD] the life of me imagine why the Government think they local authority duty to homeless people and families should wait up to three years to be able to bring it in. will be changed so that its duty to house can be met by It is important that local councils have an option on housing the homeless in the private rented sector. their governance models and can choose the model While to some this may seem reasonable given the that suits them and their circumstances best. It is for numbers of people, especially in London, living in that reason that I am utterly opposed to the imposition temporary accommodation while they are waiting for of the mayoral model in shadow form, as proposed in housing allocation, I believe that it will have a much the Bill. more far-reaching and devastating impact. The idea of merging the mayor with the chief Changes in the Bill to the homelessness duty raise executive is quite frankly barmy. The whole rationale serious questions about the rights of some of society’s behind elected mayors is to have a high-visibility candidate, most vulnerable people. Homeless families will no someone with quite different skills from the managerial longer be able to refuse unsuitable accommodation in qualifications that you would expect a good head of the private rented sector. This could lead to vulnerable paid service to have. I have no doubt that it will go adults and children being housed in inappropriate and through, but if someone came to this House with a insecure settings where their mental health and well-being proposal that Ministers should become Permanent could be seriously threatened. As we are all aware, Secretaries, there would be an absolute uproar. homelessness is an isolating and destructive experience, and homeless people are some of the most vulnerable There is a sort of schizophrenia evident in the Bill. and socially excluded in our society and include people There are parts that are genuinely localist. For example, with mental health problems, disabilities and alcohol I was really pleased to see the dismantling of the and drug problems. provisions in the 2007 Act which told local councils I understand that the Bill contains a safeguard how to receive a petition, but I saw with dismay an whereby those made unintentionally homeless within even more regimented system for bringing in referendums. two years of having their homelessness duty passed to Where I live in mid Suffolk, we are having a referendum the private rented sector are still entitled to housing right now on whether to merge with the local council. assistance whether or not they are still in priority The councils got on and did it. They did not need need. However, I do not think that this is sufficient primary legislation to do it, and this provision should protection. Although help will be offered to those who not be in this Bill because, as it is envisaged, I fear it suffer repeat homelessness, a series of failed tenancies will be divisive and I think it will be very costly. There can be very damaging. For example, if vulnerable is still a tendency to reach for regulatory answers to applicants are housed in the private rented sector with every question. If the Government are serious about insufficient support, they may get into arrears, or their localism they have to go far beyond the boundaries of relationship with the landlord or other tenants may just this department and create a localism audit on all break down. In this case they may be considered new legislation coming forward. intentionally homeless and thus not entitled to support. We have a real problem here. Too often, local What protections does the Minister envisage will be in councils are frozen like rabbits in the headlights of the place to ensure that there is adequate support for legal profession and tend to take the safest option on those who are vulnerable and moved to 12-month offer. The sparse use of the Sustainable Communities private sector tenancies to prevent them descending Act and the general power of well-being is testament into a spiral of repeat homelessness? to that. My fear is that the general power of competence I have only briefly touched on two areas that I will go the same way. With so much other regulation, believe are essential for us to get right not just for the both from this department and imposed by others, protection of the vulnerable and needy but for all our councils and citizens will simply be unsure about what welfare in sustaining and strengthening communities. they can do, a point so well made by the right reverend Alongside the funding cuts facing local authorities, Prelate. this Bill runs a risk of deepening existing social inequalities, I am struck by the fact that, despite the general particularly in the north of the country. power, I have been deluged with requests from councils and other organisations to request specific powers and 4.57 pm duties to be put in the Bill. Clearly, they share the Baroness Scott of Needham Market: In every speech same concerns that the general power of competence on local government I have made in your Lordships’ simply will not do the job. I was particularly struck by House in the 11 years that I have been here, I have an approach made to me by councillors in Cambridge called for government to introduce the power of general who, like councillors across the country, are seeking to competence. I am going to have to think about something protect the special character of a shopping street, Mill else now because I am really pleased to see that the Road. They are not confident that the general power Government have finally brought it forward. I am also will give them enough power to override the 2,500 pages very pleased to see the abolition of the Standards of existing planning law, which they believe prevent Board. It is a body which, while well intentioned, in them from taking the steps that they need to take in practice led to a constant stream of vexatious and order to preserve the special character of the street. I often trivial claims which were highly damaging to the am not at all sure that the changes to the planning individuals concerned and really bad for the reputation system in this Bill will give councils the flexibility that of councillors and local government as a whole. I am they need to manage their streets in the way that their also pleased to see that the committee system is returning citizens want. I am sure that we will spend a lot of time as an option for local councils, although I cannot for on this issue in Committee but it seems to me that if 167 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 168 the Localism Bill does not allow councils to protect the greatest need understand to a far greater extent cherished local neighbourhoods and facilities, it will than they are given credit for by their local authorities have failed. what those needs are and how they can be met in more The actions of local government are too often imaginative and, indeed, cost-effective ways. Moves to bounded by what they have a statutory duty to do and further empower communities through the right to also by what they are barred from doing by other challenge public services should be welcomed. I want regulations. We need to create more space in the to say a bit more about that and then refer to the issues middle, a discretionary space, where councils can do raised by the provisions in the Bill on housing. as they see fit. If one looks simply at the six clauses in However, my concern is that many of the local this Bill relating to assets of community value, there communities that would benefit from being empowered are 54 things on which the Secretary of State will need are often in the most deprived areas and are the most to issue regulations. In my view, this is a massive job deeply affected by unmet needs, with the related creation programme for CLG civil servants and for unemployment, low skill levels and health inequalities parliamentary draftsmen. that are the inevitable result. Communities often know The elephant in the room of course is money. While what they want, but are denied access to the resources three-quarters of local authority spend comes from necessary to become empowered. It is true that all central government, it is inevitable that central government communities should have the chance to assert the right will seek to impose control. The very complexity of to challenge, but my concern is that there will not be local finance will mean that if there are referenda on equality in resource and social investment in these council tax increases, they will become just a sort of communities. This point was also made by the noble shouting match between central and local government—a Lord, Lord Patel of Bradford. battle of percentages—which in the end will freeze and Turning Point’s experience of supporting over turn off local voters. Given the cost of a council-wide 100,000 people in these communities to develop new referendum, what we have here is capping by any other services has led me to believe that, by empowering name. communities, a challenge to the local authority is Genuine local accountability is impossible while often created. Generally, power is not given up without this system persists. It goes to the heart of a healthy a fight. While I can see that the intention is to give local democracy. A lack of clarity about financial communities the right to request, there is no duty to responsibility, the maze of statutory provisions and provide the resources necessary for communities in the the demise of the local press in many areas combine poorest areas to gain the necessary skills, infrastructure together to work against a responsive local democratic and resources to fight the power. It should not be system. To my mind, this is made far worse by the assumed that local communities, particularly in the bundling together of elections on the same day. I poorest areas, are formed by some magical process, fought, and won, two county council elections on and it should not be assumed that such infrastructure general election day. I speak from experience when I and empowerment is free. Indeed, Turning Point has say how hard it is to get any oxygen for local issues found that it is not a lack of money in many places, it when elections are fought concurrently. Of course, is how the money is spent and who is making the turnout is higher but, if many of the people turning decisions on behalf of communities. There is risk of out are paying no regard to local issues, the cause of the Bill unintentionally exacerbating the inverse care local accountability is not enhanced at all. The devolved law as it applies to power and power differentials Assemblies in Scotland and Wales have been given the between the poorest and the richest communities. option to choose whether to hold elections on a day other than that of the general election. Perhaps we I turn to housing issues, which again were also should think about local councils being given the same raised by the noble Lord, Lord Patel of Bradford. option. There is nothing magical about the first Thursday There is of course a crisis in the balance between in May. supply and demand for housing in the UK, and no more starkly are the effects of this imbalance felt than This Bill has some good points but it is overly in social housing. I am concerned about the intention bureaucratic and remains overly centralised. Let us to remove lifetime tenancies while reforming the hope that the Government are prepared to listen to homelessness duty accorded to local authorities. These what noble Lords have to say today and in Committee reforms are intended to free up the availability of and are prepared to make some changes. social housing, but they will have the opposite effect. These proposals may have unintended consequences 5.04 pm that will oppose what this legislation is setting out to Lord Adebowale: My Lords, I should declare an achieve. interest as chief executive of Turning Point, an It is acknowledged that there is a need for a significant organisation that provides community commissioning period of stability when someone is given access to services in many local authorities; and as a member of social housing. I question whether the time limits set the Audit Commission, which, as I have often said, is a out in the Bill are long enough for individuals with struggle. entrenched and complex needs to make the changes The Government’s Bill initiates a power shift; a required to create stability in their lives. Limited tenure shift of power from central government to local is likely to obstruct the social good of mixed and communities, and in my view that is a good intention. diverse communities. The social housing population is The experience of my own organisation in working likely to become more transient, which could lead to with many local communities is that communities in further alienation as the social capital which maintains 169 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 170

[LORD ADEBOWALE] balance between accessible housing and ensuring that healthy, resilient communities is lost. While these reforms the most vulnerable people are not disadvantaged, and will affect only new applicants, eventually it is likely that their needs are met in resilient communities. There that the people who access social housing are those is no denying that this is a difficult balance to strike with the most entrenched and complex needs. This will but it is crucial to the agenda of public service reform act to further increase the stigma already attached to that the Government are pursuing. social housing and those who access it. Similarly, limited tenure may act as a disincentive 5.13 pm for people to improve their situation, which would go Baroness Andrews: My Lords, I was quite tempted against the intention of the Bill. Those who excel in to address many different aspects of this Bill which education and employment opportunities, or who work have a curious familiarity, but I will concentrate on the to challenge their substance misuse or seek support in planning sections. I am wearing two hats: first, as addressing their mental health difficulties, could actually chair of English Heritage, I thank the Minister for be penalised, and the security of their home may be what has already been done to improve the Bill in taken away. This uncertainty is likely to increase if another place, and I shall come back to that at the end local authorities are given the right to discharge their of my speech; secondly, I want to record my dismay homelessness duty through offering a private-sector both at the regressive nature of some of the proposed tenancy of 12 months without the prior consent of the changes to planning and—in this rather curious tenant. combination of legislation—at the untested and confused We all know that the private rented market is more nature of some of the more radical elements around unstable than social housing. There is also the increased neighbourhood planning. My fears are shared by many risk that those with complex need may become further of the professionals and people outside this House alienated from the source of support that they should who will have to make the Bill work. expect, which again is a point made by the noble Lord, Like many Members of this House, I can welcome Lord Patel of Bradford. The vagaries of some private some of the proposals, such as the specific proposals landlords who put profit before tenants will be given for a community right to buy and a community right free rein to take advantage of some of the most to challenge, but the key question, which has been vulnerable in society. For instance, research by Shelter raised already by many noble Lords, is how we can found that some landlords target those with substance guarantee that the Bill will work. The job of this misuse difficulties and other challenges in the belief House, in addition to guarding constitutional proprieties, that they will be more amenable to poor-quality, shared relates to the workability test. At the moment, sadly, I accommodation. The links between mental health and am not convinced how the Bill, with its many good housing also show the wider effects of these reforms. aspects, will achieve the ambitions for growth in Poor housing can contribute to mental health difficulties planning and housing given the inherent contradictions and, similarly, people who experience mental ill health in it. can find it difficult to access quality accommodation. The first contradiction is over what the Government According to the mental health charity Mind, research want and expect from the planning system and these suggests that people with mental health difficulties are reforms. Planning is essentially about the best use of twice as likely to be unhappy with their housing and land and resources. It is about achieving a balance four times as likely to say that their housing makes between all the things we need, whether that is about their health worse. more jobs and affordable housing, energy security and The impact of complex needs can mean that it is green space or agriculture and high-speed trains. They harder for some people to maintain private sector all have to be accommodated, and the challenge for a tenancies, especially without the increased support modern planning system is to balance potentially infinite often available through social housing. Yet it is possible demands with finite resources. That is why the system to have a situation in which the most vulnerable in must have the capacity to be strategic and it must be society can be given private tenancies without their informed by a wider view of how things can fit together—a consent, which could exacerbate their problems and spatial view. That is precisely what we have lost in this cost more in the long run. Housing is a crucial element Bill. With the loss of regional spatial strategies, we of health and well-being—an agenda that is given have lost the strategic content for planning and any increasing prominence. For the clients that Turning means of mediating tensions between national, or Point and other organisations support, stable, appropriate even global, imperatives and local perspectives. Floods, housing is well established as a key component in minerals and housing have to be planned for across recovering from substance misuse, mental health and, boundaries; they play out on wide spatial scales and indeed, managing issues such as learning disabilities. they are contentious issues. These reforms should not be allowed to endanger this The Minister has already spoken about the duty to hard-won progress and further obstruct government co-operate, but she will know from her extensive briefing policy in other areas. I should like to hear specific that there is grave concern about the efficacy of a remarks from the Minister on how those risks will be voluntary duty to consider co-operation which does mitigated in the Bill. not require local authorities to co-operate. We do not To address that oversight, I should like assurances even know yet which areas of policy or which geographical that those with complex needs who are given private areas will be covered. What is likely to happen when it sector tenancies will have the right to access social comes to issues which divide local authorities and housing if they are again made homeless. It is important which have to be planned for beyond boundaries, such that any proposed reforms to social housing achieve a as waste incinerators or flood risk? 171 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 172

There are few more contentious issues than housing falling short of the kind of guidance necessary to supply. Whatever the complaints about the regional create an effective planning framework for England. spatial strategies, they had some merits: they were So we are in a rather strange position. Will the Minister evidence based, independent and offered a coherent say why the draft was commissioned when work is way of looking at where housing was needed and already under way in her department on the official could be provided according to land resource. The CLG version? Who will own the final draft and when regional spatial strategy also provided a mediating we will have it? Without the authorised version—and process for local authorities; now local authorities are this is very important—we simply cannot tell whether on their own and face unforgiving housing pressures. the degree of detail available will be clear or sufficient The Minister said that only 110,000 homes were to guide local authorities towards making the right built last year, but now that the national housing and local decisions. I would refer noble Lords to the issue planning advice unit has been abolished can she tell of sustainability, which is interpreted in the draft text me how the housing needs for the nation as a whole in a way that suggests that economic factors are given will be assessed? How many houses does she think the more weight than social ones. country will need this year, next year or the year after? I come back, finally, to heritage protections. What Perhaps she will refer me to the new homes bonus. I concerns us in the heritage community is that the accept that that may act as a spur to housing in growth protections around the historic environment in this areas, but it will not help poorer communities where draft document are in fact weaker than existing protections the need is for regeneration and renewal—take the in the recent, modernised planning document on heritage case of Liverpool, for example. Indeed, the TCPA and protection—PPS5—which was praised as valued and the Joseph Rowntree Trust suggest that it will reinforce successful, only two weeks ago, by the Minister for structural inequalities between regions. I am afraid Tourism and Heritage. Indeed, he expressed his concern that, on the analysis, the outcome is all too predictable. that it must not be thrown out with the bathwater in How would the Minister interpret that dichotomy? order to make the NPPF an all-new document, because My noble friend has already referred to Clause 124, it is such a useful and clear document. I am sure that on financial incentives. I and many others have grave the Minister will want to talk to him. The problem is concerns about the clause, because we have for the that this document, for example, fails to recognise the first time in planning legislation an explicit priority spectrum of heritage assets, which extends from given to financial incentives in the planning system. undesignated to nationally designated assets, or how This is a major distortion of what planning is there to to find new viable uses for useable heritage assets. If do. It has set many alarm bells ringing, because it these elements were to find their way into the final could lead to grave consequences. Where is the wider draft, we would be left with a weaker set of protections planning interest in this? Where is the interest which around heritage. We do not want to do that. compensates for sustainability or affordability? Much I will let the Minister have a full list of areas of wider issues should be taken into account. concern, which will also include the problems raised I turn from the regressive to the untested elements by undesignated archaeology, which again is in a of the Bill. We are told that the key planning document rather unfortunate position in relation to the NDOs. will now be the local development frameworks. Barely I know that is something she will want to know about. a third of them have been completed, but the I know the Minister is going to respond to me in the neighbourhood development orders, these radical new very positive way that she has already done when we powers, are required to conform with them. What will raised issues with her at an earlier stage of the Bill. happen where there is no LDF in place? How many Indeed, without her interventions, we might now be neighbourhood forums does the Minister anticipate? I faced with a clause that explicitly removed protections have seen a figure of 25,000. Can she confirm what around conservation areas and listed building settings has already been put about, that some of them could in relation to neighbourhood development orders. I cost as much as £200,000? But the crucial question is am extremely grateful that the Government have now what exactly they will be free to plan for. If they do not corrected this and I am very grateful to her personally. cover housing allocations, waste or minerals, what are In conclusion, I hope that the Minister is able to they left to do? respond to some of my concerns this evening. I have The lack of reference to sustainability opens up a raised them in the wider spectrum: the increased second major contradiction. Whereas the Budget uncertainty, reduced confidence in the objectivity of statement seemed to take a very simplistic view of planning and abolition of the necessary ability to plan planning in which growth and sustainability were at strategically—not least because we are at a time when odds with each other, we now seem to have a default we have never needed greater foresight, intelligence position in which economic growth is to be the principal and objectivity in the planning system. The Minister determinant of planning. began by saying she was willing to listen. I would The Minister in the other place was insistent that expect nothing less from her and I am sure that, across this and many other aspects of policy would be made the House, we can improve this Bill in the way we need clear in the national policy planning framework, which to. will be the key to getting the planning system right. Its purpose is to streamline all existing planning guidance, 5.23 pm but we do not yet have the final version. We have only The Lord Bishop of Derby: My Lords, like many in a draft version, apparently commissioned by CLG the House, I warmly welcome this Localism Bill and and produced by a group of “practitioners”, which the desire to empower communities and shift power to has been described by the TCPA, for example, as local communities. Many of us will be aware of the 173 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 174

[THE LORD BISHOP OF DERBY] of its time and a very wise proposal, but it must be feeling of collapse of community and the undermining substantiated by serious investment—not just in the of democracy through apathy and non-engagement. mechanisms and opportunities but in the resources to This is a very timely measure to try to empower the local communities. I ask the Minister to consider very local and I want to offer a very brief view from the seriously the litmus test of localism, which is including ground; because if we are talking about empowering those most easily excluded. Can that be somehow the local, we need to know who constitute the local taken very seriously in working the proposals further, and how people can be drawn into these processes and with neighbourhood mechanisms being developed so take part in the ordering of local society. that they can reach out to community life and help The clue comes in the language. The Bill uses the community life happen more seriously? phrase “community empowerment”. As the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, said, talking about Athens and Pericles, 5.28 pm you might just about imagine a community in Athens, Lord Wei: My Lords, I start by declaring an interest which was, I think, about 5,000 people. Youmight also as a voluntary adviser to the Community Foundation have a sense of community in a medieval town, with Network, a movement that seeks to improve society in its segments of people living in different crafts. However, the UK through philanthropy. I thank the Minister for since the rise of 19th-century industrial cities, modern sponsoring the Bill and for introducing it in such a cities and now the mobility of people in rural areas, listening manner—a Bill in which there is plenty to the physicalness that created community has disappeared welcome as well as to discuss. largely from people’s lives. The Bill recognises this, in The Bill is an incredibly significant piece of legislation that although it talks about communities and community in that it sets out some of the key foundations for the empowerment, it majors in its solution on the notion big society, enabling a major shift by decentralising of neighbourhood, which is rather different. It talks power and strengthening local initiative. In doing so, it about neighbourhood forums, neighbourhood plans creates a tangible empowerment of communities and and referendums—mechanisms for a neighbourhood neighbourhood groups. While community empowerment to try to help community happen. But there are very is only one ingredient in the big society recipe, alongside important informal elements that create community public service reform and encouragement of social and give people a sense of well-being and direction in action, it is a very important one. As those of us who life which need to be taken account of if these have worked closely on local issues will be only too neighbourhood mechanisms are going to be inhabited aware, for too long many communities have seen their as the Bill envisages. hopes and ideas frustrated by an overly bureaucratic I would like to share the results of research by the system or felt powerless against overbearing third Church Urban Fund, which has looked at 232 faith-based parties, whether public, private or voluntary, which for projects working in the 10 per cent most needy areas whatever reason have, often unintentionally, overridden of our country. It would seem to me that the test of the wishes of local people. any localism is how you include those normally excluded. This Bill and the big society itself are an attempt to This research looks at the 10 per cent of those in the redress that state of affairs, bring balance and help most needy areas and the projects working with them. rebuild trust between those who have power and those Sixty per cent of those projects report an alarming who are subject to it. This Bill will bring together collapse in their capacity to engage with this local many provisions to eliminate some of the hurdles in agenda—partly through the withdrawal of grants and local government planning and housing that make partly through the collapse of the capacity of local people feel powerless and apathetic. I want to highlight government to be an agency in making communities. a few in particular and outline some areas that will That is a very serious picture. If one test of localism is need to be handled with care. how we involve the most easily excluded, we have to I eagerly greet the creation of a range of local think carefully about inhabiting this Localism Bill and community rights contained in this Bill: the right to how it can really work. challenge and propose alternative providers for local The danger in the way the Bill is couched is that services; the right to buy or express an interest in neighbourhood mechanisms will most easily be inhabited assets of local importance to communities; the right by those who already have economic and social capital. to build much-needed housing or other small-scale There is a great danger that assets and services could community-owned infrastructure. Each of those has be taken over and controlled by private finance and the power to transform communities, whether they are particular interest groups and not really draw on the inner-city ones frustrated by the housing management local community. Research that the Church Urban provided to them as social tenants, suburban residents Fund has done in my own diocese showed the struggles who want to save their pub, post office or library and of a family centre trying to create families with stable turn it into a multi-use sustainable hub, owned and lives and, in youth work, with trying to bring young frequented by the community, or rural communities people into society. We have to invest in these things. that I have visited that have wanted to create housing Besides trying to create the opportunity and structures for their young people who are otherwise having to that the Bill highlights, you will empower people’s leave for the city because they could not afford to buy participation only if you give them the resources to do locally. it. There is a tremendous resource deficit, particularly I also welcome the release of local authorities from in the most needy communities. There must be some Whitehall control by granting them the power of joined-up thinking in government if we are really competence and the reforms of their governance, such going to make this Localism Bill operate. It is a thing as in the option of having city mayors or returning to 175 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 176 the committee system, as well as a means to introduce and take steps to meet it. The popular pendulum may direct democracy through various referenda. The key otherwise swing back over time to central control, as principle here is to provide flexibility, to move away it did in the 1980s, after the failure of overweening from one-size-fits-all Whitehall control and, ultimately, municipalism. The referenda and other direct to put more power into people’s hands. These reforms accountability measures are therefore key to holding will give local authorities real discretion to work local authority power in check, even as central oversight innovatively and redesign their public services around is partly reduced. their own local circumstances, in line with the wishes Thirdly, it must be acknowledged that neighbourhood of those they serve. That is essential if we are to have a plans are big documents and likely to take 18 to more responsive, efficient and accountable local service 24 months to produce. Due to the considerable in future. consequences of the plans, it is also crucial that they The provision for neighbourhoods, either as parishes are designed properly. While local authorities have a or local forums, to create their own development plans duty to provide support and advice it will be vital that, will also produce a much-needed culture change in on top of that, community groups have access to how communities interact with planning authorities. specialists and toolkits—provided by the likes of the Rather than having an adversarial and expensive system Prince’s Foundation and others—to ensure that every where every little change needs to be argued over, the community that wants to will be able to produce a community is incentivised to come together to shape worthwhile and workable plan. its own neighbourhood for the long term. In places The changes to social housing also need to be such as Seattle, that has led to innovative solutions implemented with care. Others, I am sure, will pick up such as the community proposing creating much-needed on that. When you have a country facing a chronic housing over the local library and enhancing the character shortage of such a scarce resource as housing, there is and community ties successfully within neighbourhoods. always a risk of abuse. Poor decision-making can arise As someone who has lived privately in social housing when those allocating housing are under pressure. Yes, environments previously, I also welcome the measures we will need checks and balances and we will need to designed to remove a number of unfair and bureaucratic make changes in a phased manner, but the overriding barriers faced by existing and prospective social tenants. issue here is a general lack of housing, which other Waiting lists are too long and currently can force measures in the Bill and the flexibility that it creates many people to live in a limbo-like state and in poor over social housing management should help to address. quality environments for years. It is unfair that so We must also understand that at times in this process, many will wait while others are given higher priority Whitehall may need still to play a role since healthy over them, sometimes for temporary economic or localism does not happen overnight. We will also need other reasons, in ways that can even destroy social ties to watch carefully how different reforms take shape between family members who rightly wish to live close and gradually amend guidance and regulations as we to each other. Carefully thought through measures to go along. It will not be perfect straight away and make social housing tenancies more flexible and to control must be released carefully. widen the range of housing stock that people are Finally, we must watch our temptation not to share provided with—subject to minimum standards, to include power because we fear extreme groups taking over private rental options—are critical, in my view, to locally—that age-old tension between our desire for improving the lives of thousands of low-income citizens. security versus our yearning for freedom. In my experience, Reforms to have more web-enabled swapping of homes such a blanket reaction is uncalled for. Instead of and to strengthen housing association accountability withdrawing, we should always push for the greater are also welcome. We need more associations that are participation of those in the mainstream and those on both responsive to tenants and can think out of the the edge to drown out the extreme voices who would box when finances are tight. otherwise hold sway. The more we water them down However, like most good things, none of the new out of fear, the more we will perpetuate the apathy opportunities outlined in the Bill for communities and engendered by bureaucracy and monopolistic abuse of local authorities comes without some risk, which will local power, which have been so damaging to our need careful management at all levels. First, it is country, democracy and public life. On the other imperative that the new rights are designed to balance hand, the more transparent, muscular and representative the need for due process without unnecessarily increasing we make these reforms, the more likely that citizens of bureaucracy. If the process is made too complex and all kinds will participate as they realise that they have given too many layers and tick boxes, there is a possibility teeth. Let us therefore work together to make these that the new rights’ full potential is never realised and reforms work on behalf of the millions of citizens who that people will frankly not bother, especially in more will benefit from them locally and enable them to help deprived areas. To this end, I welcome measures being us to build the big society. introduced by departments and various civil society groups to help communities have the capacity to take up their rights. 5.36 pm Secondly, just as central government releases powers Baroness Bakewell: My Lords, I declare a peculiar now, local authorities must also be incentivised to interest which is that I do not have any interests to devolve their own powers and not hoard them, to fulfil declare; I am simply a citizen and a ratepayer of themselves the principle of subsidiarity. If localism is Camden. I will not detain your Lordships long but I really to work, it is crucial that councils understand am interested in the idea of localism. People have that same aspiration within their own communities struggled to define it, which I find quite interesting 177 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 178

[BARONESS BAKEWELL] I declare my interest as the vice-president of the because it just means what we have all been doing. I Local Government Association and I am still a member thought that I would add, anecdotally, some stories of Newcastle City Council. that might indicate how I will be judging this Bill as it The Bill’s declared aim is to devolve and decentralise goes through. power to councils and communities locally; and where We have struggled in Camden for well nigh a decade it does that, the Government should be commended. to keep local libraries open. We planned our meetings Not surprisingly, there is a concern that the Bill has together and the word got round on the street and in not been drafted in the spirit of localism. That is the shops. We had meetings, made plans, invaded the because there are simply too many powers assigned to council meetings and took them over. We organised a the Secretary of State and Whitehall to regulate and scheme whereby all the pushchairs and wheelchairs in micromanage. The Government should not have powers the borough invaded the council chamber. That was to impose shadow mayors on local communities. The quite impressive, because those were the users—the creation of an elected mayor should rest entirely in the people who wanted their libraries to be local and not hands of local people; and giving the Secretary of to have to travel, as the council wanted us to do, to State the power to force a shadow mayor on to local some glitzy, vanity-project library which nobody could people and then subject his decision to a confirmatory reach. We have prevailed and we go on prevailing. In referendum is wholly against the spirit of localism. the face of the current cuts, we are once more on the Nor should central government legislate on what warpath. This is localism as we experience it in Camden. constitutes an excessive council tax rise. I find it interesting On another occasion, the rumour went round—it that the desire for localism in this Bill does not extend was a good street rumour from the parents of children to allowing a referendum on putting council tax up. at the schools and the people in the shops—that True localism would require not only an option to Starbucks was going to move in on one of the properties have the council tax rate below what the council says, on our street, which prides itself on having highly but also one that is above what it says. As for referendums, idiosyncratic and individual shops. We knew that we councils already have powers to hold them, but the Bill did not want a chain. We met and made plans. Some will see Ministers in future regulating these more from of us put a bit of money in the kitty. We lobbied the Whitehall. In social housing, the Bill would lead to local papers, we put up posters and we frightened increased housebuilding and growth only if it frees Starbucks away. Starbucks let it be known in the local councils to invest in social housing. So Whitehall press that it certainly did not want to go where it was should not be able to cap councils’ ability to borrow to not wanted—incidentally, there are Starbucks branches invest in social housing. not very far from our street. This is localism. It had no In principle, the Government have made firm referendums and no structure. It had no top-down commitments to devolution, so the desire to devolve is plans to organise us. We organised ourselves, which apparently there. This Bill’s potential is for a legacy of seems to me to be the essence of localism. empowered places, a more competitive and inclusive Just in case your Lordships think, “Yes, well, Camden; England, a rebalanced economy away from an overreliance that’s all very nimby”, I have to tell you two things. on the south-east, and cities that have greater freedoms. The mums with the pushchairs and the old people in This Bill provides further powers for London, transferred their wheelchairs were not nimby. In any community, from the London Development Agency and the Homes it always takes certain vocal people to get things and Communities Agency, with the power for Ministers organised. YourLordships will recognise that. However, to delegate further functions. The country needs London once that is under way other people come on board, so to do well and London—along with the devolved we were broadly understood to be representative of assemblies of Scotland and Wales and, through them, the community. Also, once we had got rid of Starbucks their cities—will have greater freedom to grow its we had a call from Richmond saying, “How did you economies than other cities in England. pull it off? We want to do the same thing”. There is Yet cities in England are also capable of delivering already a broad, grass-roots willingness to pitch in. I substantial growth and the country would benefit am not sure whether the passing of Bills with systems, enormously from giving them the opportunities to with forums or with structures being offered to us by drive prosperity. A recent report by Oxford Economics them over there is what true localism is about, so I has shown that many billions of pounds in growth shall be monitoring this Bill for every clause which could be delivered by empowering English cities. For appears to be top-down and does not play along with example, the urban areas of the eight English core cities the bottom-up, grass-roots sense of this country. —Birmingham, Bristol, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham and Sheffield—already account 5.40 pm for 27 per cent of the UK’s economy. We need to seek Lord Shipley: My Lords, I congratulate the noble ways to unleash that economic potential, create much Baroness, Lady Bakewell, on defining for us what needed investment, jobs and growth and enable those localism means. In debates like this it is helpful to have cities to compete on a level playing field internationally. clear definitions of what we mean by words: from I anticipate an opportunity to discuss this proposal “localism”, through “community”and “neighbourhoods” further in Committee. to “nimbyism”. In the end, localism is about I have some further words on housing matters. neighbourhoods and neighbourhood provision; and it Reforming the complexities of the housing finance is about the social inclusion and cohesion that derive system is very welcome, but it must lead to councils from that localism agenda. In that respect I agree being empowered to do more—and being expected do entirely with what the noble Baroness had to say. more—for themselves, with greater interdependence 179 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 180 and more financial certainty. We simply must build My party, Plaid Cymru, supports not only the more homes, given that new household formation is devolution of power to the nations and regions of now more than twice the level of new housebuilding. these islands, but also to local communities. For years, So many of our housing problems relate to undersupply, Plaid campaigned for the abolition of the ultra vires particularly of social housing, and addressing this is rule. Of course, enabling communities to do more central to preventing homelessness rising and the average for themselves does not guarantee that they have the age of first-time buyers being driven upwards to over 40. capacity to do so. Some of the neediest communities The Localism Bill offers us an opportunity to improve also have the least capacity. JB Priestley once commented the duty owed to single homeless people and, in my that decentralisation by central direction is a contradiction. view, it would be right for local authorities to provide That may be relevant to this Bill. suitable accommodation for a period that would give I am very aware that some of this Bill was rehashed them a reasonable chance of finding accommodation substantially in its later stages in another place under for themselves. a stringent timetable Motion, and that in March there There is a concern that some councils, when seeking was a yes vote in the referendum on the powers of the to bring their ALMOs back in-house, are effectively National Assembly in Wales, which significantly impacts excluding tenants from the process. I hope a clause on the application of parts of this Bill on Wales. might be inserted into the Bill that would oblige local Consequently, there is some lack of transparency which authorities seeking to disestablish an ALMO to inform we will need to look at in Committee. An example is and involve tenants fully and hold a ballot. I also hope the lack of clarity regarding the Bill’s application to for an assurance from the Minister that the community Wales. This arises in Part 1, dealing with the general right to challenge will be applicable to social housing powers, Clauses 1 to 8. This has to do with local tenants and ALMO staff who want to manage social government, and the term “local government”is defined housing by setting up an appropriate co-ownership in Clause 8 in terms that apply to England. The structure. Explanatory Notes to the Bill say on page 97 that This Bill will remove security of tenure for new Clauses 1 to 8 apply only to England, yet Clause 5(8) social tenants and introduce a new form of short-term refers to orders that have, tenancy. There is a danger that the Government could “effect in relation to Wales”, be introducing legislation which will cause anguish for and provides for consultation with Welsh Ministers. some very vulnerable families, while not delivering a Similar problems arise elsewhere in the Bill, for example great deal. Short-term tenancies run the risk of creating in Clauses 126 and 127 in relation to homelessness, a cycle of repeat homelessness; and rather than create and in Clause 145 in relation to the abolition of the yet more insecurity for people and communities, reform housing revenue account subsidy, which has a significant should focus on long-term solutions that deliver the knock-on effect for Wales. security that vulnerable people need. Two other areas are of particular concern to the Securing social mobility is a key agenda for this Welsh Local Government Association. The first is in Government, but this is achieved through security and regard to the UK Government passing down European confidence, both at individual and community level. fines and penalties to local government. If councils Reviewing tenancies every 24 months is too short a are liable for EU fines, they rightly feel that they timeframe to secure that ability to build confidence should be able to influence the laws that lead to those and act on opportunities for employment. fines. It is not clear how the EU fines that relate to One final point relates to the ballot box and councils in Wales will be handled. Part 2 does not representative democracy. This is an understated, appear to apply to Wales, but the WLGA fears that it undervalued issue in the Bill because the primacy of will. The Minister Greg Clark suggested in another decision-making at all levels must lie with those who place that this will happen, although it is apparently are elected to take those decisions. To take neighbourhood not currently in the Bill. As most local government planning as an example, there has to be a democratic functions in Wales are devolved to the National Assembly, legitimacy. Some 40 years ago I was involved in pushing this raises the question of the Assembly’s right to the case for urban parish councils. For a decade or so interface directly with Brussels on these issues. There it was central to a lot of my thinking and to that of a is also a danger of significant legal costs to the public number of Members of YourLordships’ House. In the purse from intergovernmental disputes over fines that context of parish and town councils being available in may arise. many parts of the country, they are less so in concentrated The second issue that the WLGA has flagged up is urban areas. Securing democratic legitimacy may need to do with planning. As the Minister will realise, part of this Bill to look at some form of elected urban Wales already has 25 local planning authorities, which parish councils to give force to neighbourhood planning. enjoy substantial local engagement. Community councils have a key role as local sounding boards in Wales. 5.48 pm Therefore, the question arises of whether localism as Lord Wigley: My Lords, what a horrible title this is an approach in the Bill is as relevant to Wales. This for a Bill, which is essentially about community—a leads to the question of whether the provisions of the much warmer concept. In the few minutes available, I Bill on nationally significant infrastructure projects will flag up some key issues, which I hope to return to are appropriate to Wales. The Bill does not reflect the at a later stage. The areas of main concern to me are reality of the devolution settlement in Wales. For how the Bill impacts on Wales and in general how it example, Welsh Ministers and the Welsh Local impacts on the well-being of disabled and disadvantaged Government Association have supported the aim that people wherever they may live. all energy developments of up to 100 megawatts should 181 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 182

[LORD WIGLEY] in Norfolk, which cost West Norfolk Council £80,000— be devolved to the Assembly. The current dual approval £80,000 for just one referendum. If the bar is set too process provides specific problems in Wales; so far low, and 5 per cent is too low, referenda will be called Ministers appear to have been deaf to such pleas. I on every contentious issue at a huge cost to councils, very much hope that we can return to this at a later which they can ill afford in today’s straitened times. stage. My third point concerns the requirement that local Finally, I turn to issues of concern to disabled authorities maintain a list of assets of community people. I declare an interest as joint patron of Mencap value, which can be added to from nominations by Wales. These issues include ensuring that security of members of the public. What is an asset of community housing tenure is maintained for carers and relatives value? Is it the farmer who allows the village to play of disabled people. This is an issue of considerable cricket on his field or park cars next to the church? concern to many in the world of disability. There are Those pieces of land are certainly of value to the also worries that people with learning difficulties will community, but are they assets of community value? not be a priority group for social housing. This needs If they are, I can see many farmers withdrawing their to be addressed. No doubt other such issues will arise facilities so as not to be caught by the Bill. This of in Committee; I very much look forward to participating course cuts across the ideals of the big society. Therefore, in those debates. “community asset” needs a clear definition. The worry is that the Bill uses the words “disposal of”—not, as 5.53 pm the Minister said, “sale of”—a community asset. Earl Cathcart: My Lords, I am a landowner and a The Bill gives communities the right to bid for and landlord, and have been a local councillor for several take over the running of the community asset on years. I certainly support the thrust of the Bill, in that disposal—that word again. Generally I support this shifting power away from central government to idea, but I see problems. If a landlord wants to sell his communities is most welcome. I have three points to pub to another publican, should the community have make. a right to bid? Undoubtedly, yes, but should that right The first concerns how the Bill will affect small be able to delay other commercial purchasers of the businesses. The business community has welcomed the pub for up to six months, while the community gets its measures in the Bill that could stimulate economic act together? I think perhaps not. The community’s growth and ensure the protection of the country’s high right to buy is intended to safeguard the pub from streets and town centres. I should like to look at how closure, not to disrupt commercial landlord-to-landlord this might affect rural areas. It has long been argued sales. Strangely, there is no provision in the Bill to that to save the village shop, pub and post office allow the community to bid for a pub if the landlord villages must have a critical mass of housing, so new applies for a change of use from pub to residential, housing must be built. I agree, provided that the new because there has been no disposal or sale of a community residents use the facilities in the village. Sadly, all too asset—just the loss of it. This rather defeats the object often the new residents will drive to the market towns of these provisions. I support a great deal in the Bill, or cities to work, where it is all too tempting for them and I look forward to Committee. to pop into the supermarket to shop. Villages then become dormitories. 5.59 pm Not only is new housing necessary but, just as Lord Filkin: My Lords, I shall speak on just Part 5 importantly, jobs and small businesses need to be of the Bill, which, although it was not referred to by created in the villages so that the residents not only the Minister, is one of the most substantial and concerning live but work in the parish. The residents would then aspects of it. As the House may well know, the Bill spend their working week in the parish and be far abolishes the whole standards regime that has been more likely to use the village shop, pub, butcher and developed for local government over the past 20 years. baker regularly, and would have to decide consciously It does not simply abolish the Standards Board for to get into their cars to shop in the towns. Small and England, it abolishes the national code of conduct for new businesses are vital to the economy and well-being local government, which had to be picked by local of villages. As such, business, in particular small business, authorities who could then add clauses to it. It abolishes should be fully involved in the neighbourhood plans. the obligation to have standards committees in local It is therefore good to hear the Minister say today that authorities to investigate complaints. It also appears neighbourhood forums will be strengthened by the to remove independent members as chairmen of those business community. standards committees, and independent members. My second point is about the requirement that a The House should be seriously concerned about local authority must hold a referendum when it has these changes, for which the Government have made received a petition that is signed by at least 5 per cent no clear or cogent argument, given the decisions that of local electors. Five per cent is too low and could local authorities make. They have enormous power to give rise to a plethora of referenda. Five per cent of a create or destroy value through their planning decisions market town with 20,000 electors might seem reasonable. and award many large and small contracts. They are However, in parishes with only 200 or 300 electors, major buyers of goods and services in their areas and 10 or 15 signatures would be all too easy to obtain. can award or withdraw grants affecting individuals Just a handful of households could demand a referendum and communities. They have extensive regulatory powers on any and every issue they choose, at no cost to and are often the dominant employer in their community. themselves. That brings me to cost. Recently a referendum This is a massive range of powers, which most of us was held on a proposed incinerator near King’s Lynn welcome and support, but it is fundamental that the 183 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 184 public have confidence that these powers are exercised hope that these things will never recur, but let us not with honesty, fairness and probity. For too many destroy the processes, structures and standards that years, too many people in our society have not believed act as deterrents. that that was the case, given the evidence that has For all these reasons we have a national code of emerged of occasional scandals. It is rash and foolhardy conduct that governs the behaviour of MPs, civil to behave in the way the Government are doing in servants and others in public life. It is therefore self-evident demolishing this structure of standards, although that that there should be a national code of conduct for does not imply that there is no room for improvement local government as well. It is trivial of the Secretary and development. of State to avoid this by using the localism argument. I Over the past few years we have seen a gradual hope that we will come back to these issues and improvement in public confidence that local authorities consider them seriously. This is not, and should not conduct their affairs by and large with decency and be, a party political issue. The whole House, irrespective honesty, and that processes exist to investigate members of party, should want to ensure that proper standards who are alleged to have misbehaved. The Bill will, if are put in place. To divide on party grounds in itself unamended, destroy much of this good progress. It is signals that there is something wrong with the opposed by the Committee on Standards in Public Government’s recommendations. The Government should Life. That in itself ought to be sufficient reason for this pause on these issues and go back and consult properly House to take its recommendations very seriously on them. There has been no consultation or pre-legislative indeed. It is also opposed by SOLACE and the Association scrutiny on these fundamental issues. of Council Secretaries and Solicitors. Classically, unfortunately, the Local Government Association has 6.05 pm been split on the matter. The Conservative members Baroness Doocey: My Lords, I must declare an feel that it is not polite to oppose their Government. interest as a member of the London Assembly. I have However, other elements in the Local Government also previously served as chair of housing in the Association regard this as a foolhardy set of measures. London borough of Richmond upon Thames. I wish We ought to be even more concerned, given the hamstrung to focus my remarks on Clauses 124 and 130, and how nature of the Local Government Association’s voice they will relate to housing in London. on this matter. The first of my remarks concerns the legal duty to The Committee on Standards in Public Life has the homeless. Clause 124 enables a local authority to commented: discharge its main duty to the homeless with an offer “The lack of a national code of conduct and an independent of suitable accommodation from a private landlord complaints mechanism in the proposed new regime for standards without requiring the applicant’s agreement. Such offers in local government risks lower standards and a decline in public of a private letting would require only a minimum confidence”. 12-month fixed term, offering no long-term security. No one believes that the world will suddenly collapse, The Government assume that this provision will lower but clearly understood standards with clearly the cost of accommodation to the taxpayer; indeed, understandable processes provide a basis for investigating the cost of temporary accommodation for the homeless complaints and, more importantly, have a deterrent is unnecessarily high. However, given the shortage of effect on misbehaviour. It is dangerous to allow a local housing, lower rents are unlikely. The market trend is authority to decide whether or not to have a code of in the other direction. Average London rents are now conduct, as is proposed under the Bill, and if it does to nearly £1,000 a month. FindaProperty and Savills both choose what process to use to investigate complaints. estimate that during 2010 average rents for new private It can no longer have an independent member chairing sector lettings in London rose by nearly 17 per cent. it. These measures will certainly reduce public confidence I therefore find it highly improbable that private over time with the inevitable misbehaviour on the part sector rents will fall as a result of this legislation. It is of an authority or individual councillor, as human much more likely that the quality of private rented nature will not change as a result of localism. accommodation will decline as profit margins are Some councils will have codes of conduct, others squeezed. Rents will not fall but conditions might will not. Some will have one code, others will have a due to a lack of investment. Even if rental costs were different code, and most will have different processes. reduced, any savings are likely to be offset by the It is unclear from the Bill what sanctions are available knock-on costs of repeat homelessness due to the to local authorities as it makes non-declaration of 12-month minimum term. The people who are becoming interest, or non-disclosure of a declared interest, a statutorily homeless are increasingly the most vulnerable potential criminal offence but does not have clear families. Placing them in private sector accommodation sanctions or processes for addressing the vast majority is unlikely to give them secure and stable homes. of other forms of misbehaviour or alleged misconduct Indeed, they are likely to be forced to live in substandard by members. accommodation and, much worse, forced to move at Most of us have had experience of local authorities regular intervals even if they have been model tenants in one form or another and most of that experience who pay their rent on time. has been good, but some authorities are captured by In addition, benefit changes in the Welfare Reform one particular interest group. It can be a single party Bill may make it more likely that tenants are evicted where a party is dominant for years, which can lead to for falling into two months’ rent arrears, so the Bill in the suppression of other voices or views, or it can be a effect undermines the legal duty of local authorities cabal within a party. There certainly have been masonic towards homeless people. We need proper safeguards. influences in some London boroughs in the past. I These could be established with a statutory accreditation 185 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 186

[BARONESS DOOCEY] is a large and complicated Bill, and there are many system for the private rented sector rather than relying, sentiments behind it of which I approve, but today I as in London, on a voluntary one. Your Lordships shall restrict my remarks to the chapters on planning may be aware that in London the mayor has established and communities. Here, there are opportunities but a voluntary accreditation system as part of his current also, I believe, considerable dangers. The Bill is what housing strategy. He has set a target of 8,000 accredited Sir Humphrey might call “very brave”. It is in its very landlords by the end of the year, and he is likely to breadth and complexity that the biggest bravery lies. meet that target, but let us put this into context; I believe that the average businessman encounters the London has the highest number and proportion of planning system once every eight years. After the Bill, privately rented housing in England. In 2009, there he will find that he has to learn a completely new were nearly 700,000 private rented dwellings in London. language. That will almost certainly lead to uncertainties That is 20 per cent of all London households, compared and delays in development, and thus economic growth. with an average for England of just under 13 per cent. Frankly, I cannot think of a worse time for delays in Between 2001 and 2006, the number of private rented development and economic growth. In this context, I properties in London increased by a massive 25 per cent. worry about our national housebuilding programme, Currently, one in five households in London are especially affordable homes and, in particular, rural privately rented. In some boroughs, the figure is much affordable homes. higher. In Newham, for instance, it is one in three As I said, it is a brave Bill. It is brave because not households. In six London boroughs, private rented only will the system be different from top to bottom, housing forms more than one-quarter of all housing but no one quite knows how the links between the stock. This is a sector that we need to be reputable, to different new bits will work, nor how the transitional be a genuine third pillar alongside owner occupation phase will work. What happens to a contentious planning and social rented housing, but many landlords do not application during the 18-month phase it takes to get a behave well towards their tenants in London’s private neighbourhood plan in place? Surely the tendency rented sector. Four out of every 10 homes are non-decent must be to delay it, at a time when, as I said, we cannot or substandard. If more people are to be placed in afford to delay. private accommodation, it is essential that some form Starting at the top, I was dismayed but not surprised of kitemark is introduced to ensure standards. to see the abolition of the IPC, which is only 12 months My second concern is the proposal to remove security old. We will now no longer have the democratic will of of tenure in social housing. Clause 130 proposes giving Parliament being implemented by a time-limited and local authorities the power to offer flexible tenancies precedent-conscious body, giving certainty and confidence to new social tenants of not less than two years. The to potential builders of and investors in our infrastructure. clause provides for the circumstances in which a new Here, again, such development will be controlled by tenancy will be a flexible tenancy. The basic principle the uncertain, personal whim of whatever Secretary of of flexible tenancies is sound, but if the minimum State is in power at the time. That is a retrograde step duration of a tenancy is only two years, that will in my view and, in terms of getting long-term investment almost certainly become the norm. That is what local in to our infrastructure, a bad idea. authorities will offer, and the minimum will, in effect, Coming down a layer to the abolition of the regional become a target. spatial strategies, I can quite see why that is being done. People living in social housing are entitled to reasonable I was never a great admirer of the regional agenda, but security of tenure. They need to be able to settle into it had a rationale in supra-local strategic planning. communities, to put down roots and to make friends. The proposed duty to co-operate seems to me to be a They also need to be able to find work within reasonable bit of a wing and a prayer. It is certainly brave. Would travel distance and to secure continuity in their children’s not a formal supra-local strategy, perhaps in line with education. If they are forced to move continuously, the local economic partnership boundaries, be a better they will find it harder to stay in employment, their solution? In ideal circumstances, everyone knows that children’s education will almost certainly be disrupted, unpopular developments have to go somewhere and, and they will have less incentive to maintain their in most instances, decisions will be taken amicably. It homes in good order. As a result, we are likely to see a is possible to co-operate yet not accept your share of greater concentration of deprivation and worklessness so-called bad neighbourhood developments, particularly in social housing. Surely that is the last thing that if you know that, back in your patch, expectations anyone wants, but it will almost certainly be the direct have been raised by the new neighbourhood planning consequence of providing such limited security of tenure. process and a whole series of well organised communities Social housing is designed to help the most needy in have vetoed such developments in the area. our society. They must be given some form of continuity On that last point, one of the answers could, rather than a lifetime of transient housing. Transient unfortunately, be to place bad neighbourhood housing serves no one well—certainly not the families, developments in communities which lack the capacity especially the children concerned, and not the local or the funds to develop the neighbourhood plan or to communities in the long term. I shall return to these hold a referendum. That would be a disastrous result issues when we reach Committee. for the legislation. We must therefore ensure that capacity building and funding are available to help 6.12 pm those neighbourhoods, particularly those who do not Lord Cameron of Dillington: My Lords, I must first ask for it. It must involve far more money than the declare an interest as a landowner and farmer and as mere £3 million being transferred from the planning chairman of the Charities’ Property Association. This aid budget. 187 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 188

I fear that “brave” also applies to the whole concept are talking about someone’s home. People want security of neighbourhood plans. It would be fantastic if they of tenure; they want to ensure that they can bring up worked—if they do not become nimby charters—but, their children, that they can go to work and that their again and again, I have come across seemingly reasonable children can be secure in their school in long term. We groups who point-blank refuse even to have affordable need to understand the concern that that has raised housing in their village to help their youngsters, let with so many people who are currently in social housing alone something that might be difficult to live alongside. or who long for social housing and spend years on the What is to stop the process from getting into the hands waiting list. of the articulate narrow-minded? The answer must be I want to comment on issues, not yet discussed in processes that instil responsibilities as well as choices. your Lordships’ House, in Chapter 2 of Part 1—Clauses 9 It would be helpful if we could see the new national and 10—on the fire and rescue service. I wish to planning policy framework before our deliberations comment on three aspects and, as the Bill progresses, I are over. shall seek clarification from the Minister. Two of Finally, I have a word about community assets and those aspects are in the Bill: the powers being given to the right to buy. The idea that one can save cherished fire authorities and the limitations placed on those facilities such as a shop or pub sounds good and, from powers and the charging for services, other than core a rural community’s perspective, highly commendable, services, and the implications of that. The third issue but when all the representative organisations of those is not in the Bill, but I hope we can look at it during facilities are doubtful about those proposals, you know our debates and deliberations. It is whether the existing that things are not quite right. The point that they and scrutiny and oversight measures for fire authorities are others make is that those assets are part of a business. adequate, in light of new powers and responsibilities. Businesses are often bought and sold, and often thrive I have a long-standing interest and commitment to and are rejuvenated because of it. Delays in that the work of the fire service. In my eight years as a process could be disastrous not only for the business county councillor, I was a member of the fire committee but also for the community—say, in the event of the and of the fire authority and I have also been the Fire death of the publican or the shopkeeper. To have a Minister in England and Northern Ireland. I fully six-month delay at that stage would mean that customers understand the reasons for the new provisions in might wander elsewhere. Clauses 9 and 10, and the need for greater clarity for To echo the sentiments of the noble Earl, Lord the fire and rescue service so that it can carry out the Cathcart, it is not the transfer of assets that deprives full range of duties expected of it and entirely appropriate the community, especially when it is going harmlessly for it. It is clearly not acceptable that the fire and from one generation to the next; it is the change of use. rescue service should be unclear about whether it has Surely the moratorium to allow for community purchase the proper authority to carry out functions that it would be much better implemented when a change deems to be part of its responsibility to the community. of use is applied for through the planning process. At I am broadly supportive but I am concerned that, least then the two long-winded processes can run although this is heralded by Ministers as an extension simultaneously and save everyone a lot of bother. of powers, the Secretary of State will have new powers I have much more to say on the community assets to prevent the service doing something that he does as currently proposed, and many other aspects of the not want it to do. Bill, but I will save that for Committee. The Bill states that the power allows the fire and rescue service to do anything that it has statutory 6.18 pm power to undertake, or anything it considers appropriate Baroness Smith of Basildon: My Lords, I agree with for purposes incidental to its statutory responsibilities, the Minister when she introduced the debate by saying however incidental that may be. The Bill makes clear that this was an important, wide-ranging Bill with a that it cannot do anything that it is explicitly prohibited great deal of consensus. Both those things are true from undertaking. But certain subsections allow the but, as we have heard during the debate so far, there is Secretary of State or Welsh Ministers to restrict what also great concern about some of the principles and a fire and rescue authority may do under the general detail of the Bill. I welcome her comment that she is power or make its use subject to conditions. Within prepared to consider amendments in further debates. the Bill there is no need for justification or explanation The number of speakers in the debate today reflects by the Secretary of State; there are no criteria on the experience and expertise in your Lordships’ House which the judgment will be made; there are no criteria on these issues. It is a shame that, with extraordinary on which the service or authority can rely to make an discipline, so many noble Lords had to curtail their assessment about whether the Secretary of State is comments to just seven minutes. With the number of likely to use his or her powers to prevent them taking speeches, I am sure that we would have benefited from on a specific role; and there is no guidance for the hearing more from those noble Lords. It is a shame to Secretary of State about when it would be appropriate do so much in one day when perhaps a two-day debate for him or her to use those powers. would have been better for a Bill of this importance Neither the Bill nor the Explanatory Notes is helpful and interest. in this regard, so how can an authority possibly have On several issues, I share the concerns that have confidence that it really has the powers that the Bill been raised, notably around the sale of community initially outlines? The Bill both states that it is a matter assets, the governance arrangements in local government of judgment for the fire and rescue authority, and then and on social housing. It is worth reflecting that when overrides that use of judgment with special powers for we debate social housing and flexibility of tenure, we the Secretary of State. It would be helpful to have 189 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 190

[BARONESS SMITH OF BASILDON] would not be appropriate to outline those allegations further detail from Ministers of what powers the in this debate but I want to refer to the process. I was Government envisage the fire and rescue service taking so concerned that I passed the documentation to the on, or at least some indication of when and why the appropriate authority for examination, which was the Secretary of State will stop them using those powers. clerk to the Essex combined fire and rescue authority. Would it be the same for all authorities, or would it I am not in any position to make a judgment on the depend on the Secretary of State’s assessment of the accuracy or otherwise of the allegations, but I need to level of competence of that authority? be reassured that those matters will be investigated The second issue is charging. The Government have robustly, independently and transparently. If they are helpfully been clear that in effect core services cannot found to be inaccurate, misleading or just plain wrong, be charged for. The Bill then outlines those areas that I thought that I would receive an explanation that cannot be charged for, but anything not specified can would satisfy my concerns, or, if any of the allegations be charged for. However, there are still some areas that were accurate, that appropriate action would be taken. could be deemed grey areas and, as the Bill progresses, I have been bitterly disappointed and my confidence clarification will be required. in the process is being severely tested. I have been The 2004 Act emphasised the provision of community informed that much of the information has already safety and fire prevention work, but this does not been investigated, but I have not been told which appear to be in the Bill as an area that cannot be issues or the result of any such investigations. I am charged for. Many of your Lordships will have seen at told that there is a report going to an appropriate first hand the work undertaken to educate the public committee, but I have not been informed of which about fire prevention and fire safety, including provision allegations are going to the committee, what information of smoke alarms, particularly in multiple-occupancy they have received, or how the judgment will be made. houses. Is it the intention of the Government that the I know that the meeting will be in private and will fire and rescue services and authorities should have not be open to public scrutiny at any stage. I am not the power to charge for these services in future? convinced that the authority of elected councillors which is charged with the effective management of the At present, flooding is not a core service, as I fire and rescue service is aware of the detail and nature understand it. It is explicit that an emergency resulting of the complaints, and the response that I have received from a direct result of severe weather or an event of from the county solicitor is far from satisfactory. widespread significance could not be charged for, but what about the five houses that are flooded by a burst I am in the position of having received information water main, or a blockage in a sewerage system? that gives many people, including me, cause for real Could the fire and rescue service charge those households concern but there seems to be no way for these matters for those services? I suspect, and I hope, that it is not to be fully investigated in a robust and transparent the Government’s intention that they should, but that way which gives confidence to the complainants. That is not clear in this Bill. is unacceptable. The public need to be reassured that the management, including financial management, of I can understand the Government wanting to allow all public bodies is at all times above reproach and can charges for responding to a fire alarm where there is withstand scrutiny. Being a long-time supporter of the no fire, although I have concerns about that, and fire service, particularly in Essex, I want to have full further clarification is required there as well. It must confidence in the service and the authority. That means be clear what the Government consider to be a false having confidence that issues of concern will be robustly call, as opposed to a malicious or hoax call, and what and transparently investigated. is considered to be malfunctioning equipment. With new powers and new charges being introduced, There is a serious issue here about additional burdens with certain constraints, the public will need to be on business. Already business has responsibility for satisfied that there is proper and effective scrutiny. I undertaking fire assessments, and the costs of installing regret that my experience to date has not given me and maintaining fire detection and alarm systems. confidence in the current system. I do not ask the Statistics show that 80 per cent of businesses fold Minister to respond today, but I hope that this is an within 18 months of a fire and we need to ensure that area that we can examine during the passage of the any action taken does not increase risk or overburden Bill. In brief, there is much in these clauses on the fire businesses. service to commend them to your Lordships’ House, My final point is on the issue of scrutiny. This Bill but the devil is in the detail and I hope that we can places heavier burdens and responsibilities on the members address these issues as the Bill progresses. of fire and rescue authorities, both in terms of responsibilities and the issues relating to charges. The 6.28 pm scrutiny and overview process must be able to match Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords, I declare my those responses. Unfortunately, my own recent experience interest as a joint president of London Councils and a of scrutiny and overview in the fire service has left me vice-president of the Local Government Association. extremely concerned about the robustness of the current I say to my noble friend on the Front Bench that I arrangements and whether they are fit for purpose for welcome a great deal in this Bill. I particularly welcome the new powers. the general power of competence. When I was Secretary Following a number of local and national press of State in charge of local government, I remember reports, I recently received a number of complaints addressing an audience of local authority chief executives and allegations of mismanagement and financial and seeking to justify the Government’s tight control mismanagement of the Essex fire and rescue service. It over what local authorities did. They were totally 191 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 192 unconvinced, not least, I suspect, because I did not which really needs to be taken on board—because the convince myself. So I am delighted to see this change Minister is directly interested in the result. Some of in the law. the blame may lie with Ministers. They should not be I also support the wider use of elected mayors, free simply to shovel it out to local authorities and which will be subject, of course, to the successful other public authorities around the country. It is a referendum by the authority concerned. What I am complete conflict of interest, and therefore there must not convinced about, although my noble friend referred be an independent form of scrutiny. to this briefly in her opening speech, is why it should My other worry relates to London, and a number be necessary—why it should be the role of Ministers—to of noble Lords have spoken about that. Most of the set up mayors in shadow form, by order, before the Bill is concerned with devolving powers down from change has been approved by the electors of the government to local authorities and local communities. authority concerned. My noble friend will have to do a Much in London is going the other way, up from the great deal more to convince me that those proposed boroughs to the mayor and the GLA, diminishing the new clauses in the schedule are justified. influence of the London boroughs. I mention just one I also welcome, in general, the proposals for community example: the Bill has powers for the mayor to establish empowerment in planning matters, but as other noble what are called mayoral development corporations. Lords have said, the devil will be in the detail, and we There is an obligation in the Bill to consult the boroughs, will need to examine it carefully in Committee. It has and a lot of other people, but that does not give the been suggested, and I have heard more than a number boroughs appropriate protection against unwanted of assertions to this sense, that it will lead to “busybody, and damaging MDCs in their area. We must build in middle-class nimbys” looking after themselves—one better safeguards to protect the boroughs. Of course, noble Lord described them as “the articulate narrow- the Olympic Park Legacy Company is one of the minded”. However, the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, central purposes of this, but there could well be others, and I served together as trustees of the charitable arm and we need to make sure that that protection will of the British Urban Regeneration Association, and happen. he will be as aware as I am of the hundreds of projects One final point is that the Bill contains the right for up and down the country, of local initiatives, by all the public and organisations and neighbourhoods to kinds of communities, to regenerate their neighbourhoods. challenge local authorities, with the possibility of taking There is huge potential out there, and as we go through over some of their services. Why has the opportunity the Bill, I will want to be sure that it does make it not been taken to allow the same people—indeed, easier for things to happen on the ground. There has local authorities—to challenge central government over been a huge amount of frustration—we have heard services that they deliver in their areas, much of which some of it during the course of the debate—and I could be much more effectively done locally, by local want to be sure that this Bill removes some of the people, responding to local needs and circumstances? obstacles. This is another thing which I shall want to see whether I also welcome the clauses on planning. For many we can write into the Bill. of the changes, again, the devil will be in the detail, I congratulate Ministers on bringing this forward, but I would like to take up something the noble Lord, and this House, with all its experience, must try to Lord Cameron of Dillington, said when he spoke make this a still better Bill. about the Infrastructure Planning Commission. I am in no doubt whatever—and when we debated the 6.37 pm Planning Bill I made these points—that it is far better for the decision on major infrastructure projects to be Lord Berkeley: My Lords, this is a very interesting taken by a Minister, who is accountable to Parliament, Bill, as the noble Lord has said. I wonder how much it than by an appointed quango. That is the heart of really has to do with localism. I sometimes think that these proposals. It has been extremely encouraging to it is more to do with moving the deckchairs of Treasury see how the IPC chairman, Sir Michael Pitt, and his control, which wants to charge for anything that it can colleagues, have accepted that this will be their new see that is chargeable or that can be moved, but we role. They have stayed in office, and they are getting on shall see. We will have some interesting debates on this with the job. I greatly admire the way that they are in Committee stage. I will confine my remarks to two doing this. things: the issue about EU fines, which the noble I have, however, two significant worries. I am worried Lord, Lord Jenkin, has just mentioned, and the issue by the clauses giving Ministers power to distribute EU of planning for major projects. fines for breach of directives to local councils and As the noble Lord has just said, the ability that the other authorities. Yes, of course, if a council is failing Bill will give Ministers to require local authorities to to obey the directive on the treatment of waste and make a payment for an EU financial sanction imposed of recycling, it should bear the fine. But what are on the UK—if the Minister is satisfied that the authority individual local councils supposed to do about caused it—is quite a serious issue. Interestingly, in the atmospheric pollution in London that owes itself to Starred Question which I raised on 23 May, I asked Heathrow airport, or to the M25? To take one particular whether the Government were likely to be fined, or to example, Westminster finds itself as the focus of traffic have deducted from their money, £180 million by the congestion from all over the country, and of course International Olympic Committee if the air pollution therefore has a high rate of atmospheric pollution. did not achieve the EU limits. Of course, there is also There must be some form of independent scrutiny of the threat of the £300 million fine from the EU if the the proposed allocations, not least—and this is a point air pollution in London exceeds the PM10 level. In 193 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 194

[LORD BERKELEY] through planning procedures—if there is a greater risk considering who should pay either of those fines, it is that it will be rejected by a referendum? I feel sorry for interesting that when I asked the noble Earl, Lord the Secretary of State for Transport, who is trying to Atlee, who was responsible for this pollution, he answered: push through the high-speed passenger line from London “Everyone is responsible: the Government, the mayor, TfL, to Birmingham and beyond. How many referenda will LOCOG, the ODA and, most importantly, individuals who make he have in the middle of the Chiltern hills, and what their own transport decisions”.—[Official Report, 23/5/11; col. 1583.] will be the result? Will he ignore them, try to stop I can see some real fun occurring when the Government them happening or try to get the line through before try to finger any of those people for £180 million or the Bill becomes law? I trust that it will be the latter, £300 million, especially when of course, as the noble but I do not know. Lord, Lord Jenkin, said, the Government are not a Finally, I believe that it will be possible for people in disinterested party. Perhaps they will put tolls on the London to have a referendum on the level of tube or roads—I do not know. There has to be some independent bus fares. Does anyone believe that people will vote for adjudication, whether it is the High Court or an higher fares? It would be ridiculous for TfL to have to independent arbitrator, to determine a fair apportionment spend £2 million or £5 million for a referendum on a of the fine. Government cannot be the one to make question that it already knows the answer to—that the decision. We will have to pursue this in Committee would not help its finances. Therefore, there must be stage, but it really has to be tightened up dramatically exclusions, possibly for applications for planning to see who really was at fault and whether they could permission for a much wider range of projects than I be fingered for any of the money at all. have talked about, and for fares. These are all things My other concern, which the noble Lord, Lord that I and others will raise in Committee, and I look Cameron, mentioned earlier, is about the ability of forward to long and detailed discussions. major projects to get permissions, and the uncertainty that this will cause for investors. I am talking about 6.45 pm airports, ports, wind farms, freight terminals, nuclear power stations, railway lines and anything else that Baroness Parminter: As a former West Sussex district comes under the auspices of the national Infrastructure councillor and a former chief executive of the Campaign Planning Commission, which was set up under the to Protect Rural England, I think that it will come as Planning Act 2008. The purpose was to ensure that no surprise to noble Lords that I will confine my national policy statements would set national policy for remarks to the planning provisions in the Bill. It is fair these issues, which would avert the need for the promoter to say that there is much that we can welcome, both in —whether in the private sector or the Government—to the provisions that help local communities to shape demonstrate a need for the project. themselves and their environment and in the potential to deliver sustainable development. Having said that, I We have national policy statements for nuclear power think that it is also very clear to me and other noble stations, and we think that we know where they are Lords that there is much left to discuss during the going to be. We have national policy statements for progress of the Bill in Committee, with concerns about waste water—one project is for an 8 metre diameter matters that may limit those very good intentions. I tunnel from Hammersmith to Beckton Alp, under the will flag up three concerns that I hope to raise as the Thames and following its line. Those who wish to Bill proceeds through Committee. The first is that oppose it may find it difficult to oppose the principle if planning permissions should not be unduly influenced it is covered by an NPS. However, where are the other by financial considerations; the second concerns the ones? If there is no NPS, how can promoters have any need for strong, strategic planning to respond to the confidence that they will get planning permission, environmental and climate change challenges that we even after a big inquiry? face; and the third is the need to introduce a limited Further issues include how the national planning third-party right of appeal. policy framework fits in to the jig-saw, and Ministers On Report in another place, the Government rather than NPS officials making final decisions. We introduced an amendment to include local finance may have a view on that—over the years some Ministers considerations in planning decisions. Like the noble have been better than others at making such decisions— Lord, Lord Beecham, and the noble Baroness, Lady but my concern, apart from where all the documents Andrews, I am concerned that this could encourage are to encourage developers to go ahead with projects, local authorities to base decisions on short-term financial is that anyone who lives near the locations of some of implications rather than on the land-use merits of the these planned projects can ask for a referendum. I proposed developments. I cannot agree with the Minister worked for many years building the Channel Tunnel, that Clause 124 was an “incidental measure for and I worked with the Channel Tunnel rail link. It was clarification”. The noble Baroness, in her opening difficult persuading local people that these were good remarks today, confirmed that financial considerations things for the country and might even create a few local can be a material consideration in planning. The clause jobs. A local referendum in those places would have elevates finance above all other material considerations, killed everything. Gatwick airport has a similar concern including social and environmental well-being, because if it ever wants planning permission to make changes. no other material consideration is specified in statute. We can debate whether we like these things or not, The relative status of financial considerations in the and try to take a line through the middle, but my planning system must be clarified by the Government concern is: what company is going to invest in such in order to safeguard the fundamental principle that projects, at a cost of £10 million, £20 million or planning permission should not be unduly influenced £50 million—it is very expensive to get these projects by financial considerations. 195 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 196

Secondly, having abolished regional planning, and companies, energy providers, retailers and others who in order that we can deliver strategic planning, the Bill may have an interest in the practical implications of introduces the duty to co-operate—as a number of noble this Bill. Lords mentioned—between local planning authorities I support the Government’s philosophy of empowering and other prescribed bodies. It is to be welcomed that, individuals and communities. I also support policy on Report in another place, the Government strengthened that brings growth and jobs. One of the biggest challenges considerably that duty. However, questions remain is to marry these two things. I feel a responsibility, about how the duty will be enforced, as there are no when considering this Bill, to endeavour to do that. sanctions if local authorities fail to co-operate, and This Bill is just part of the localism picture. The there is insufficient clarity about whether such joint Government are letting a thousand flowers bloom. A planning should cover anything beyond infrastructure review of local government finance is expected, as is planning for housing and economic development. The the reform of other governance structures such as Bill creates no specific duty to plan jointly for a local enterprise partnerships, enterprise zones and more strategic, low-carbon energy infrastructure to ensure besides. Like the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of that this country can meet the challenge of climate Norwich, I too am reminded of the “Yes Minister” change. If we are to meet the scale of the energy series and the cautionary response of Sir Humphrey challenge confronting us, we require a step change in Appleby to a new idea from the eager Minister: ″That’s the UK, from having less than 7 per cent of electricity very brave, Minister”. generated by renewables in 2009 to having more than The carrot of local government funding reform is 30 per cent from renewables within the next 10 years. dangled elsewhere. However, new financial responsibilities Nor does the Bill make clear a duty to develop joint on local authorities, such as the costs of local referenda solutions to issues such as biodiversity protection, and EU fines, will be all too tangible. Prospective local climate change adaptation measures or delivering referenda are a serious concern in London. They are landscape-scale conservation, which are important features expensive—between £5 million and £12 million each—and of the Government’s natural environment White Paper, too low a threshold might allow for abuse of the launched just this morning. Greater clarity is needed system. I share the concern of the noble Lord, Lord about what strategic matters are part of the duty to Berkeley, about whether a referendum calling for free co-operate, and about the sanctions for failing to Tube rides would gain popular support. Probably. co-operate, if we are to deliver on the need to meet the Would the mayor be able to agree? Probably not. environmental challenges that face us. Given that referenda are advisory, they would seem a Thirdly, the Government are right in the Bill to very expensive pressure valve if let off too frequently create greater opportunities for local neighbourhood or too freely. planning. However, if they accept the importance of I also remain concerned about how much-needed local people having a direct say in the planning of local infrastructure is to be funded and built. The their communities and environment, how can it be public purse is already stretched, but this Bill suggests right for local people to have no redress when a that a slice of the community infrastructure levy be planning application is approved that drives a coach passed straight to neighbourhoods. This is a worrying and horses through everything that has been agreed? fragmentation of a key source of investment, which A limited community right of appeal could be triggered should be targeted more effectively at broader strategic where a decision to grant planning permission is not in priorities, leveraging private sector investment. line with the adopted local plan. Recent government I support other efforts to drive regeneration and figures make it clear that the number of such departure growth. Devolving more focused planning governance—as applications is extremely small. To introduce a limited the Bill proposes for the mayoral development corporation third-party right of appeal, however, would build public in the Olympic park, for example—is welcome, but faith in decision-making and encourage further good governance is no supplement for poor funding. participation in the planning process. As significantly, it would help to make a reality of what the Minister The concept of neighbourhood is an important confirmed on Report in another place, when he said part of this Bill. We should be clear that a neighbourhood that the reforms were is not automatically synonymous with residents. Bloomsbury, for example, has residents, educational “all geared towards making the plan prominent and, indeed, institutions and businesses, all of which should have a sovereign”.—[Official Report, 17/5/11; col. 273] say in formulating a neighbourhood plan. The Bill has There is much in this Bill that we can welcome and for already made some progress on this front. Government which the Liberal Democrats have long campaigned— changes now allow for businesses to get involved in giving local people more of a say about their own shaping the plan by sitting alongside residents on a environment and introducing measures to deliver neighbourhood forum. I welcome this. sustainable development. That is, as I say, to be welcomed. As the saying goes, however, there should be no Clearly, however, as this Bill progresses, as other noble taxation without representation. Businesses pay their Lords have indicated, there are many issues where fair share through business rates, and should be given greater clarity and, perhaps, revision are needed, if we fair representation if the issue of a neighbourhood are to deliver on the welcome intentions of this Bill. plan goes to a ballot. I welcome pilot schemes that inform how best this might work. Splitting communities 6.51 pm into neighbourhoods or business neighbourhoods, Baroness Valentine: I declare an interest as chief however, misses the point. Communities are complex executive of London First, a not for profit business and not easily pigeon-holed. In some cases they are membership organisation that includes property home to critical pieces of national infrastructure—airports, 197 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 198

[BARONESS VALENTINE] president of the Suffolk Preservation Society and as power stations or motorways, for example. While the chairman of the Marlesford parish council. In view of Bill exempts this vital infrastructure, it does not clarify what the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Norwich whether necessary associated development should be said, I should also say that I am a member of the subject to neighbourhood planning. We need a process Marlesford parochial church council, that accounts for the make-up of any given neighbourhood Having served for 12 years as a countryside as well as allowing that community as a whole to commissioner and eight years as a rural development approve or reject a plan. commissioner, I am hugely aware of the dangers that I make one final plea to the Minister for a rigorous there could still be to our countryside. It was 20 years review process to be built into the Bill. There are so after England and the Octopus that the Labour many “don’t knows” across this policy area. Outside Government of Mr Attlee produced the 1948 planning this Bill, local government funding is unresolved. Acts, together with the creation of national parks. The Governance structures such as LEPs and enterprise planning Acts, together with the National Health Service, zones are unformed and untested. Under this Bill, we were some of Labour’s greatest legacies to this country— genuinely do not know how neighbourhood plans will and they came just in time. work in practice. For example, they have no time limit, This is a very important Bill because it could have but must be at least as permissive as local plans. If a an impact on what England looks like, not just during local authority changes tack, must all neighbourhood our lives but right through the lives of our grandchildren, plans be redrafted, with further referenda? Similarly, too. So we have to get it right, however much time it the community right-to-buy scheme is based on sound may take. Mistakes on paper can be corrected; mistakes principles, but must be sensibly constrained to avoid on the ground seldom can be. The breadth and diversity vexatious attempts to stop or delay development. of experience assembled for this debate to offer support Joining up government may be a thankless and and guidance to the House of Commons and the endless task, but the formation of a national planning Government are perhaps an example of the value and policy framework, including a presumption in favour function of the House of Lords as it is. of sustainable development, will give clarity to planning I suppose that the most dramatic example of what policy and is welcome. It should perhaps be mentioned is at stake is illustrated by the National Trust which, in the Bill. On the other hand, the Government have through the spectacular success of Project Neptune, embarked on yet another overhaul of the planning saved a huge part of our most beautiful coastline. If it system before the property market has fully shed the had been lost, it would have gone for ever, and I do not overhang of the credit crisis. The coalition agreement believe that the planning system on its own could have put growth at the top of its priorities, and while I saved it; nor, certainly, could ownership by local authorities, support the aspirations of the Localism Bill we must which have sometimes been among the great desecrators not allow well meant but poorly tested legislation of our landscape. The Government are right to abolish to unhinge our fragile recovery. We should keep this the unelected Infrastructure Planning Commission and Bill under review, pilot more difficult aspects of to sweep away the discredited regional strategies. Our implementation and be willing to reverse measures counties are quite large enough to interact directly that generate unintended economically damaging with Whitehall where national or regional policies are consequences. required. To return to Sir Humphrey Appleby’s words, being The ownership of land, the stewardship of land “very brave, Minister” is all well and good, but let us and the use of land, whether for farming, recreation or not be foolish. development, are what the planning system is there to influence. Planning policy has been nourished by decades 6.57 pm of casework and experience. It is neither possible nor Lord Marlesford: My Lords, I congratulate the desirable to seek to oversimplify the planning system. Government on bringing in a Bill to spread localism The core of the system has been the evolution of the and must say how charmed we all were by the way in series of policy planning guidance notes—PPGs, as which the Minister introduced the Bill. they were known. Most of them have now been redrafted I, too, want to focus on the planning sections the as planning policy statements. The PPG and PPS Bill. In 1928, a remarkable book was published called system is excellent and full of experience and expertise. England and the Octopus. It was written by Clough I have the gravest doubts about the wisdom of replacing Williams-Ellis, the outstanding architect who, among it with an overarching new planning policy framework other things, gave us Portmeirion, and who, along that could, in its attempt at simplification, send a with Professor Patrick Abercrombie, was one of the whole generation of babies down the plughole. earliest campaigners to prevent the urban sprawl and However, parliamentary scrutiny depends on squalor and the ribbon development that threatened having full details of the draft regulations that will to extinguish forever the rural beauty of Britain. The implement the Bill. To move power downwards is book was republished in 1996 with a foreword by always attractive, and certainly parish councils are the Jonathan Dimbleby, who at that time was the president grassroots of our democracy, but there must be a of the CPRE. I at the time was the chairman. I balance between different local levels. Planning officers recommend noble Lords who are interested in this can, of course, be insensitive and bureaucratic, but subject to have a look at it. they are needed to overrule arrogant or selfish developers I should at this point declare my own interests: as a who are not really interested in anything except the Suffolk farmer with a number of let houses in Marlesford, quick buck. Planning inspectors can get it wrong, some of which could be described as social housing, as although in my view they have been a most effective 199 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 200 defence against unreasonable planning refusals and plans for their areas that will form part of local populist politicians who seek to impose inappropriately development plan if they are approved by referendum. national policies at a local level. However, I am concerned that, in a move signalled in Like my noble friend Lady Parminter, I am worried the March Budget Statement, which described the that the Bill as drafted will give fresh opportunities to planning system as a chronic obstacle to growth, the big companies to get their way when they should not Bill has been amended to give short-term, economic by using planning gain to bribe local communities. I interests undue weight in the planning process. This is recognise the difficulty of introducing a right of appeal instead of ensuring that the planning system makes against planning consents. None the less, I think that decisions that are in the public interest and places communities should have the right to challenge decisions equal importance on economic, social and environmental that go against locally agreed plans or where local considerations, as it has since the 1947 Act. The authorities have a conflict of interest. I fought a long Government have picked on the wrong target. The battle using Parliamentary Questions and the media, planning system might have its faults, it might sometimes eventually successfully, to stop Braintree District Council be opaque and slow, but it is wrong to present it as an repeatedly giving itself planning consent, totally contrary obstacle to growth. For instance, high house prices to public policy, to erect advertising hoardings, from and low house building rates are not due to obstacles which it got some £30,000 a year, along the A12 trunk in the planning system but are largely a consequence road. I think also that the proposals for a right to buy of restricted credit availability. or right to bid for community assets said to be of Perhaps I can give some examples of the shift in the community value could be fraught with dangers. This Government’s approach and propose some remedies part of the Bill will need the most careful scrutiny and, and safeguards in the hope that the Minister will I suspect, considerable clarification, if not amendment. respond at the end of this debate. Alongside the budget, I would say that by any standards this Bill is much the Government produced a plan for growth. This too long. I hope that if in Committee we find that document, produced by the Department for Business, some parts of it have not been properly thought Innovation and Skills and the Treasury, states that the through, the Government will be prepared if necessary Government are, to remove them for a future occasion. Finally I very “introducing a powerful new presumption in favour of sustainable much share the concerns already expressed over the development so that the default answer to development is ‘yes’”. European dimension. It is now 19 years since the This presumption will be outlined in the national introduction of subsidiarity under the Maastricht treaty planning policy framework, a document we are yet to as a guard against an overreaching Brussels, and it has see. had only limited success. May I suggest that localism The planning system should not act simply as a tool could become the new shield against EU involvement? for economic growth, and we should all recognise that it should be perfectly acceptable for the planning 7.05 pm system to say no to inappropriate, unnecessary or unsustainable development. The planning system is a Viscount Simon: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord means for gaining popular support and agreement for Marlesford, has spoken a lot about all kinds of things necessary development. As we have seen with regional with which I totally agree, and I will expand slightly housing targets, trying to force development on on some of them. This Bill covers a great deal of communities frequently results in antagonism and delays. ground, but my comments, like those of many other It will not always be possible to achieve agreement, noble Lords who have spoken, will focus mainly on but it is crucial that the system is one that the public Part 5, which makes changes to the planning system. can trust to be fair. To do this effectively, it cannot The post-war Labour Government are often have a presumption in favour of economic growth. remembered as the Government who created the National The purpose of the planning system is already to Health Service, yet another of their initiatives, the achieve sustainable development; that is set out in the Town and Country Planning Act, has become one of Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004. I support the central cornerstones of our democracy. This Act the addition of a definition of sustainable development established the principle that public bodies should in the Bill so that there is clarity about what is meant have powers in deciding issues of land use in order to by sustainable development for councils making plans, protect the wider public interest and not for any whether they are county, district, parish or town councils. particular sector or short-term interest. Since that If Clause 124, which was added at a very late stage and Act’s passage, although Governments of different parties with no fanfare, is to remain in the legislation, we must have reformed the planning system, none have departed ensure that it will not enable non land use-related from this key principle. It is this principle that needs to financial benefits provided by the state to be a material be upheld in our current debates over planning reform consideration in determining planning applications. arising from the provisions of the Localism Bill. As An example of one such benefit is the new homes with the NHS, the planning system currently faces bonus, which the Government have created to provide an uncertain future as a result of significant reforms incentives for new housebuilding. proposed by the Government. The CPRE finds this new clause somewhat alarming. The central theme of localism that runs through It states: this Bill is to be welcomed. The Bill hails the end of “We believe that as currently worded this clause could the regionally imposed, unrealistic and arbitrary housing fundamentally distort the planning system by encouraging local targets for local councils, which had few friends, and authorities to base decisions on short term financial implications introduces a new system for neighbourhoods to create rather than the land use merits of the proposed development”. 201 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 202

[VISCOUNT SIMON] matter how fierce, this one will pass, and it is important Leaving aside the merits of the new homes bonus that we are not left ruefully eyeing the wreckage when scheme—the effectiveness of which in delivering the the bad weather abates. right sort of homes where they are needed remains to be seen—giving financial considerations this sort of 7.13 pm weight in the planning system challenges more than Lord Palmer of Childs Hill: My Lords, first, I 60 years of political agreement. I recognise that challenging declare an interest as a councillor in the London long-held positions of agreement is not always a bad Borough of Barnet for 25 years and as chair of its thing, but in this instance I suggest that the Government audit committee. For many years, I was a director of have got it wrong. an arm’s-length management organisation managing The Minister may say that existing payments, such Barnet Homes housing. Currently, I am a member of as Section 106 agreements or the community infrastructure the standards committee—so I felt that I should speak levy, already have a certain weight in the planning at Second Reading of the Localism Bill. Clauses 129 system, but these are both very different in that the and 130, which refer to the duties of homeless persons, money can be spent only in relation to the development take us back to the very dark days of limited offers to for which planning permission is granted. The new homeless people. My noble friend Lady Doocey homes bonus is not ring-fenced and the receipts for mentioned this, and I should like to expand on what councils will be significant. I also understand that she said. material considerations have never before been referred The idea that local authorities will be able to discharge to in legislation, and that practitioners are concerned their duties to the homeless by providing one offer—I that by singling out financial considerations in the Bill repeat, one offer—from a private landlord, without they will become the “first among equals” among the applicant having any say in being able to reject that material considerations. This clause should be removed offer, is horrifying. For those who have been in local or substantially reworded to provide clarity and equity. government for many years, it takes us back to the On neighbourhood plans, I have already said that days of two offers. Now we are talking about one offer the strengthening of the neighbourhood voice in planning from a private landlord. is a welcome development. This process should be What will be considered suitable accommodation accessible and unnecessary complexity should be stripped may well fall short of what is considered to be decent from the proposals. However, again as a result of the accommodation. Many of us have seen people housed Budget, the Government have amended the purposes in private properties that are not decent. With the cap for which neighbourhood forums can be set up so that on rents, particularly in London, properties available they can be established to further purely economic to local authorities to house their homeless may well goals and business interests. It may be the Government’s be of a lower standard than we would like. Allocating intention that these powers are used only in business one property, without a choice, from a private landlord districts. Nevertheless, this move again departs from will take no account of children’s schools, where people the long-held agreement on land use planning and sets work or the wider family. That will put further onus a worrying precedent. Wherever neighbourhood forums and cost on the social services because those supports are set up they should have to aim to promote economic, are not there. These clauses do not seem to say where social and environmental well-being, and I hope that the property will be. I am old enough to remember this section can be changed back to its original form. when London boroughs short of places to house Finally, I should like to make the case for a safeguard people gave them the fare to seaside resorts where the that should be in the Bill but is not. I believe that there rent would be paid to those landlords. These clauses is a strong case for a limited right of appeal for are reminiscent of that time and need to be substantially communities to be added to this legislation—not least amended. because both government parties pledged to introduce Clause 142 is welcome in that it appears to give one before the election. These circumstances should tenants of housing associations limited security. Tenants be limited. Communities should be able to ask the of less than two years must get at least six months’ planning inspectorate to reconsider a development notice, but what happens in real life? Recently, I was only where it has been approved by a local authority, made aware of tenants of a very reputable housing even though it departs from a locally agreed plan or association. They were happy, as was the landlord, but where a local authority has a vested interest. All of us the lease to that private landlord from the housing will have come across situations where supermarkets association had come to an end. The landlord was or other large developers have in effect bullied councils happy for the lease to continue under the same terms, into approving developments, which were not part of but the social landlord said that it was its policy that a local plan, by submitting appeal after appeal until tenants should move to new premises because it did the resistance or finances of a local council or community not carry one lease over to another. Under the Bill, are worn down. Either by limiting the applicants right we must give stability to people housed by housing of appeal in some way or by giving communities a associations. right to appeal in some circumstances, action should Clause 145 to 153 are welcome. They will enable be taken to tackle the unfair planning appeals process councils that own properties, which are often managed and ensure that sufficient weight is placed on local and by arm’s-length management organisations, to keep neighbourhood plans. their rental income. That will be a great benefit for The Localism Bull appears to have the right intentions many people, such as in my local authority where a lot but it has been blown somewhat off course by the of rental income does not stay with the local authority current economic storm. However, like all storms, no but goes back to the centre. However, I have a cynical 203 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 204 suspicion. If local authorities are allowed to keep all Finally, as a serving London borough councillor, I their rental income, are we guaranteed that they will welcome localism and this Bill, but we must be careful keep their current grants and standard spending to ensure that localism does not just mean devolving assessments or will there be a formula? I understand power from Whitehall to the city hall or the town hall. that one man in Whitehall knows what it means. This Bill is a leap forward—I originally wrote that it is Clauses 172 to 176 concern me. I am far from a huge leap forward, but I shall now say only that it is convinced that we want mayoral development areas. I a leap—but there is room to improve it while it is in am talking as a London borough councillor and that your Lordships’ House on its way through Westminster. is the flavour of how I look at it. It appears to be the opposite of localism. The power in London in particular 7.22 pm should be with the local authorities. Mayoral development Lord Ouseley: My Lords, I looked forward to the areas, which perhaps are where the mayor is the mayor arrival of this Bill. It is clearly based on good intentions, of that local authority, may be allowable. some of which, as we have already heard in the debate, If the aim is to get more empty land into use, such will be subjected to extensive scrutiny and challenge land should be taxed to encourage hoarders of land to during its Committee stage. It is different from what I bring it into use or there should be land auctions. expected, and having read it through, it is complex and There is a lot of private land for which people are takes some navigation. It will have a huge impact on waiting for the right price. In the mean time, many local government and people’s aspirations for their thousands of people are not housed, which is a disgrace. communities, localities, neighbourhoods and quality That can be linked to the announcement made only of life. But this Bill was trailed rather differently, with this week by the Government. They are to bring exaggerated claims of what it would deliver, and that is unused government-owned and local authority land why I am hugely disappointed with it. into use by encouraging it to be sold off—but, sadly, This is a very important local government Bill, but not necessarily for social housing. A lot of land out let me give noble Lords a taster of what I had envisaged there is privately owned, as well as that which is local we were about to get. Back in December last year, the authority owned. Secretary of State, Eric Pickles, said that the Bill Clause 158 deals with complaints to the housing signalled the start of “a new era of people power”, ombudsman. I should like this to be a righting of the and added that it would be the end of the era of big wrongs for the benefit of the tenant. I read this part of government. Andrew Stunell, at the Report stage in the Bill a few times. It gives me the feeling that like the House of Commons, stated that: many complaints to an ombudsman the result will be “The Government are committed to the radical decentralisation the fining of the so-called offender. It talks about the of power and control from Whitehall and Westminster to local government, local communities and individuals”.—[Official Report, determination of the ombudsman. The Bills needs to Commons, 17/5/11; col. 204.] say how the tenant will benefit. After reading it, I cannot see any guarantee that that ombudsman’s decision That sounds laudable and supportable, but it is will not be purely a fine on the culprit rather than a difficult to envisage how the Bill as it stands will benefit for the tenant. enable it to happen. Whatever happened to the promise of decentralisation, devolution, enhanced citizen Turning away from housing, paragraph 9L of empowerment and local control in a radical way when, Schedule 2 allows a local authority to change its in fact, we are getting substantial reserved powers for system from an executive back to a committee system. the Secretary of State to be interventionist and directional? I come from a local authority where I was part of the From my own experience of working with communities administration. I was a cabinet member for development in local areas, particularly in London, I have never and regeneration, and I would give little speeches known a situation where the central state or local saying that it is a dreadful system because I have authorities have ever handed meaningful power over unparalleled power to do almost anything I want, but to local people. Power, control, decision-making and it is not democratic. That is the case with the executive resources have always been withheld, often for good system where the member of the executive without reason and particularly to intervene when things go portfolio has the power while the rest of the council wrong, as they do from time to time. Someone in has little of it. I serve on a council with 63 councillors, authority has to be held responsible and accountable. of which 10 members are on the executive. They are all An example of continuing centralist micro- from one party, not my party, but it has been mine. management is the setting of an annual budget and Those 10 members have interesting jobs managing council tax to be levied by the local authority. This is a and running the council, but jobs have to be found for local matter. The local elected members make those the remaining 53 members as chairs or members of decisions and are answerable to their electorates. Why scrutiny committees that have little or no value. should the Secretary of State insist on having the I would like to see, as the Bill suggests, a move back power to determine what he considers to be excessive? to the committee system with a chair of committee for Is that not a matter for local determination? Why housing, social services, adult education and so on. should a Secretary of State be determining the The Bill would enable this, but states that it will circumstances for local referendums to be held, and happen in London after the next local elections, which who will be responsible for the additional costs? What are three years away. I would like the Bill to be of the additional bureaucracy and delays in processing amended so that local authorities are given the opportunity and decision-making that will be created? We have to to bring about this change in the way councils are run be certain, as we go through the Bill, that we are not sooner rather than later. staring at the prospect of reinforced centralist power 205 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 206

[LORD OUSELEY] step, but there must be co-ordination and leadership and control, as well as increased bureaucracy, which to challenge all the different agencies operating at the the Government claim they want to reduce. There will local level. It should not be restricted to locally provided be increased costs at a time of reduced resources. services. Such a co-ordinating role is best led by the Another example is the imposition of shadow mayors, local authority. The Bill should therefore enable local which again is central government determining what is authorities to challenge, with and on behalf of their best for local people. Surely locally elected and accountable communities and in partnership with other agencies, councillors, along with their local citizens, are the the provision of services delivered by national public most appropriately placed to determine what is best bodies within their area. for their locality. Why undermine local democracy Undoubtedly, town and country planning would when it works well most of the time and is more about benefit from the streamlining of administration and localism than what this Bill purports to be? Clause 5(1) speeding up of decision making. However, close gives the Secretary of State far-reaching powers to, examination of the provision for neighbourhood planning “amend, repeal, revoke or disapply, suggests that there is likely to be greater complexity, more bureaucracy and risks to community cohesion if other statutory provision if he considers that it, radical groups and nimbyism contribute to divisiveness, “prevents or restricts local authorities from exercising the general paralysis of decision-making and conflicts across power”. communities. This is particularly distressing in the context of all Let me conclude by saying that there is much in the local authorities having to conduct their business with Bill to be commended in its attempt to increase community due regard to their duties and responsibilities under involvement in local decision-making and local service the current equality legislation. Given that the Government provision. Our fundamental aim should be to strengthen have to date shown scant regard for the public sector local government and to seek to enhance its localism equality duty, and indeed have recently canvassed credentials. Power is vested in those people we elect to public opinion on restricting the functions of the represent us and to be responsive in serving and meeting Equality and Human Rights Commission, there is the economic, social and cultural needs of the local much concern that some local authorities will slip inhabitants. We must improve the Bill to help local back into institutional discriminatory policies and government, working with local providers, to improve practices, with encouragement from a bullish Secretary its performance and effectiveness and to assist local of State. We must have assurances on this matter and government to enable communities to feel empowered ask the Minister for a clear statement of commitment about all local services being theirs even if they are not and compliance with the legislation. the direct beneficiaries therefrom. The noble Baroness, The Bill’s approach to localism in London is Lady Bakewell, described localism perfectly as it now perplexing—I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, happens in her local community through direct action. on this point—because it extends regionalism through I believe that if we are to realise genuine localism we the Mayor of London while at the same time it reduces have to do much more than this Bill will achieve. localism by marginalising local councils and their Above all, for this Bill to become a successful stepping communities in the process. There must be oversight stone for localism, we would need to have less central and scrutiny by locally elected councillors and their control, less Whitehall direction and interference, less communities of the operations of the proposed mayoral bureaucracy and reduced costs, less regulation, less development corporations for this to be genuine localism. prescription and guidance and no micromanagement The same concerns arise with the Greater London from the centre. Authority taking over the housing and regeneration functions for London from the Homes and Communities 7.31 pm Agency. It is not genuine localism to suggest, as the Lord Reay: My Lords, I am most concerned with Government have done, that the London Assembly, the planning aspects of this Bill and I declare an a regional body with regional representatives, can interest as a landowner. Does the title of the Bill and offer the local involvement and participation that is the rhetoric used to support it conform to the reality required. of what the Bill will bring about? I have doubts. It The retention of ministerial powers to delegate does so in the case of the abolition of the regional tier, functions to the Mayor of London without local of which I heartily approve. It tries to do so in other electorates and councillors having their say and some aspects, including local referendums, but with adverse involvement, participation and engagement, is a further consequences, which other noble Lords have well drift away from genuine localism. The so-called community described, in costs to local authorities and possible right to challenge is limited to local authority services abuse, which mean that we need to look at it very and facilities, but other authorities and agencies provide carefully in Committee. In other instances the Government services locally.Those services should also be challengeable seem to have shied away. by local communities. Radical devolution cannot be Take the community right of appeal. Before the administered in a piecemeal and half-hearted way. If election, both coalition parties believed in it. They this is to have any meaningful impact, local communities evidently recognised then that our planning system in must be inspired and empowered to challenge all one way is most unfairly balanced in favour of the locally provided services. I believe that the community developer. A developer will take the matter to public right to challenge should be open to all, regardless of inquiry when a planning decision goes against him. a community’s expertise or level of social infrastructure. When the decision goes against the local community Expanding the right to challenge is a welcome first or parish council, where true localism resides, they can 207 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 208 make no appeal. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, they like to claim and should be able to claim, that and my noble friend Lord Marlesford, I would welcome planning permissions are not for sale. With government a limited community right of appeal. withdrawing funding from local authorities, the suspicion In addition, public inquiries are hugely expensive. might even gain ground that developers were expected The local community against the developer, when it to take their place as a provider of finance to local comes to raising the funds to fight an appeal, is David authorities. against Goliath. Moreover, today’s cash-strapped local Lastly, I want to express my concern about the authorities are very likely to be intimidated by the obligation placed on local authorities in Chapter 4 to prospective costs of a public inquiry and, to avoid maintain a list of assets of community value. That was them, grant planning permission when they would dealt with very well by my noble friend Lord Cathcart prefer not to. At Report stage in the other place the and the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington. I Minister recognised this problem and said it was something thought also that this was meant to deal with the that should be looked at. Can my noble friend the threatened loss of use of a pub, shop or other facility Minister say what the Government now intend to do which has been communally enjoyed. That is how about that? Ministers talk about it, but in fact it is framed so The situation becomes completely outrageous in widely, as far as I can see, that any piece of private the case of wind farm planning applications where the property, field, park, house or other building, which it developer is funded entirely by public subsidy, paid for could be imagined the community might ever like to by the electricity consumer. Yesterday I attended a have the use of, whether or not it ever has had the use meeting of the Lancaster district council planning of it, might be listed. Any sale of such listed assets committee when, for the second time, it turned down must be held up while the community decides whether unanimously a planning application for a wind farm to bid or not. Whether I am right or not about that, six kilometers within an area of outstanding natural this is a new interference with private property rights. beauty. I may say that that was a unanimous decision It could reduce the value of listed property and by the planning committee of a Labour- Green-controlled disincentivise owners from making property available council. In fact, anticipating defeat because of the for public use in case that should stimulate an appetite planning officer’s strong recommendation to reject the for listing it as a community asset. application, and not waiting for the committee’s decision, I look forward to the Committee stage and to the developers had already applied to take the matter combining with other noble Lords, I hope across to public inquiry, betting their money—or rather betting party, to help try and amend the Bill. the money they would receive from the poor electricity consumers—on the hope that the planning inspector 7.38 pm allocated to them might decide to give priority to Lord Boyd of Duncansby: My Lords, I declare an the Government’s renewable energy targets, over a interest as a Scottish solicitor but registered to practise consideration for local feelings and the preservation of in England and Wales. Part of my practice is in landscape. planning matters and I am also a legal associate of the I ask the Minister: is that localism ? Is that an Royal Planning Institute. My noble friend Lord Beecham example of matters being decided by the community drew our attention to the size of this Bill. In those and not by planning inspectors? Or is it an example of circumstances it might seem perverse of me, and the Government trying to drive their own policy—in unwelcome to your Lordships, to address an issue that this case, their renewable energy policy, which I believe is not in the Bill, but it relates to the planning assumptions is misguided—through the planning system? In any that underpin the assessment of compensation on case, daily practice is making a mockery of the compulsory purchase. Government’s flagship localism policy. I think that Let me tell the House why I am addressing this there is a strong case for developers to be required to issue at this stage. In 2002 the London Borough of pay the appeal costs of the local authority, and also Wandsworth served a purchase notice on a company those of the local protest group, when such a group called Greenweb Ltd for a small piece of land to has notified the Secretary of State of its intention to preserve its status as a public open space. Both the appear at the inquiry as a so-called rule 6 party, and local authority and Greenweb were agreed that the most certainly in cases when the developer is enjoying market value of the land was £15,000. Greenweb had public subsidies. in fact paid £30,000 for this piece of ground. Greenweb Something else which concerns me is the new contended that under the statutory rules it was entitled Clause 124, introduced at a late stage in the other to considerably more. Indeed, it said that it was entitled place by the Government. Several noble Lords opposite to £1.6 million—over 100 times the value. The issue have expressed concern about that. This puts into went to the Lands Tribunal and from there to the statute the ability of councils to take financial benefits Court of Appeal, which, with great reluctance, upheld into account as a material consideration when dealing the landowner’s claim and Greenweb Ltd found itself with planning applications. Currently, Section 106 with a windfall of more than £1.5 million in profit for agreements, if I understand the position correctly, a £30,000 outlay. Though that case may be an extreme must relate to the nature of the application in some example of the perversity of some of the rules on way—for example, provide necessary related infrastructure compensation and the injustices that can be created, it —and may be concluded only after planning consent is an example nevertheless. has been granted. Clause 124 would bring financial The injustice is not just on the side of local government. payments far more to the fore and would make it Another case, decided by the House of Lords in 2009, much less convincing for the Government to claim, as Transport for London v Spirerose Ltd, arguably produced 209 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 210

[LORD BOYD OF DUNCANSBY] application, but I do not pretend to that broader an injustice on the other side. In that case, the House knowledge myself. As the 31st speaker in the debate, I of Lords said that the landowner was entitled to shall inevitably repeat comments made by others, though £400,000 for the land that was the subject of the I shall attempt to limit the extent to which I do so. I compulsory purchase order. The Lands Tribunal and shall handle that perhaps by saying that I wish strongly the Court of Appeal had valued the land at £608,000, to associate myself with many of the comments that the difference being in the assumptions that were have been made on housing. I have a great fear of made about the planning permission that was granted, there being created within social housing a sort of the House of Lords saying that all that the landowner transitory, transient community, which does no good was entitled to was “hope value”. to families, especially to children, and very little good The law on compulsory purchase and compensation to the communities in which those people are resident. is a minefield of complexity, a mixture of statute The issue of EU fines is pertinent particularly to overlaid with judge-made rules and again overlaid London, which faces potentially £300 million or so in with statute. In 2002, the noble and learned Lord the fines for its failure to deal with air quality and the then Lord Chancellor referred both the procedural consequences of PM10, which takes between 4,000 to and the compensation issues to the Law Commission. 8,000 premature lives a year. It is crucial that there is In 2003, it published its final report on the compensation an independent body to allocate that fine and responsibility issues. That report was well received. Regrettably, the to central government, which has certainly played a previous Government did not find time to implement role, to the GLA and to local government. Along with the report’s recommendations. This is not the time or that point, there are many other comments that have the place to try to implement all of them, but there is a been made with which I wish to associate myself. need to address one aspect which underpinned both I shall refer to two issues which perhaps have been the cases that I have mentioned and produced the less covered, following in a sense the strategy of the most difficult results: the planning assumptions that noble and learned Lord, Lord Boyd, of addressing are made in assessing compensation. issues which should have been in the Bill but are not. In Committee in another place, Barbara Keeley The first—again, I speak from a London perspective moved amendments which would rewrite the planning though not limited to it—is infrastructure financing. assumptions in the Land Compensation Act. The Many people will be aware that it cost some £3.5 billion amendment had the backing of the Compulsory Purchase to build the Jubilee line in London. But those who Association and the Royal Institution of Chartered owned land fairly close to the stations saw a great Surveyors and was in accordance with the increase in the value of property, the estimate being recommendation on planning assumptions contained something of the order of £13 billion. in the Law Commission’s report. In response, the In other countries across the globe, that kind of Minister, Greg Clark, very helpfully said that he would increase in land value is captured to finance the project reflect seriously on what had been said and consider in the first place. It does not happen here. There were representations with an open mind. Since then, I am great hopes that it could be achieved for the Crossrail pleased to say that—as reported to me at least—good project, particularly given that those associated at that progress has been made. There was a meeting between point with TfL were Americans who were used to this the CPA, RICS and officials of the government form of financing elsewhere. It fell apart, as I understand, department, and they have been encouraged by the because the Treasury did not want control of finances positive nature of the exchanges. An impact assessment to slip away from central government towards a more has been drafted, and there seems to be general agreement local government, in this case London government. It that no concomitant changes or amendments are required, saw the potential for financing off land value gain as a an issue which concerned the Minister in Committee. mechanism that would take control away from it. We I hope that this matter can now be addressed. There ended up instead with London businesses paying a flat is widespread agreement as to the nature of changes tax to fund London’s share of Crossrail, which was a that are required and the need to effect them now. In retrograde step. the Court of Appeal judgment, all three judges expressed The Bill presents us with a real opportunity to see the hope that parliamentary time would be found to that release of power from the Treasury towards local address these issues. Lord Justice Buxton said that if communities. It is certainly true in London’s case; I government were not prepared to act, local authorities, suspect that it is true in the case of others. New faced with uncertainty and deprivation of scarce funds, infrastructure is fundamental to our being able to must exert political pressure to correct the anomaly. function and to grow. It is an issue that is not addressed We will return to this issue in Committee. Those in the Bill and, as near as I can tell, it never seems to be who have promoted the change in the law have been addressed in legislation that comes wandering between greatly encouraged by the Government’s response so these two Houses. Here would be a great opportunity far. I hope that that will continue. Certainly, if the to try to capture it. Government decide to bring forward amendments to The second issue is government’s trying still to keep the Bill, they will have my full support in doing so. inappropriate control of all kinds of bits of strategy— again, I am talking about transport. As your Lordships 7.44 pm will be aware, Transport for London is the strategic Baroness Kramer: My Lords, in this debate, if I planning authority for the Tube, the buses, the trams may, I shall speak with something of a London perspective. and the couple of overland rail lines that are contained It is London that I know; I hope that what I have to entirely within the London area, but most of London’s say about London will often have some broader commuter services in south London are provided by 211 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 212 overground rail, which comes under the national strategic I want to talk, in common with others today, about planning authority—in other words, the department. the planning system. I believe that the planning system One can see the argument: all these rail lines are part is a jewel in the crown of our democratic processes. It of a national network that ends in London. But the has been honed over the past 60 years to form a level greatest usage and demand is for the commuter services playing field arena, in which rational decisions can be that they provide in the last stretches once they hit made between competing needs, demands and interests. the environs of London and the south-east and come It has sustainable development at its heart, is local on in. enough but not too local, and is pretty accessible to Surely this Bill is an opportunity to say we are all. This Bill, which sets out to revolutionise the planning switching the balance between central and local power, system, must not throw the baby out with the bathwater. and let us add strategic planning power to Transport There are three elements of the current planning system for London to cover these rail lines that end within that I stress need to be preserved and safeguarded. this city. Of course it will have to take very serious and First, there is the whole concept of what the planning fundamental note of national rail aims but let us system is there for, bringing in sustainable development recognise that the Bill is meant to be shifting that to the heart of the system and making it the prime balance and recognising local importance and purpose. During the period of reform that we are responsibility. That would seem to be a great example. going through, it is important to remember that the If people think that you can do this kind of planning purpose of the planning system is not just about nationally, just remember it has taken nearly 10 years economic development. It is also about a whole variety to get the Oyster card on national rail services—a very of sometimes conflicting challenges, such as climate good illustration of how little notice national strategic change, loss of biodiversity, the pressures of increased rail planning has taken of the London issue. land take and urbanisation, and the need for greater Comments have been made about the Mayoral social equity. The spatial planning system really is Development Corporation. I am not opposed to mayoral fundamental in providing that arena in which rational development corporations, as others might be, but I decisions can be made in a very transparent way to am very aware that when the GLA was first set up, tackle these issues by trying to deliver and integrate there was a real focus on ensuring the transfer of economic, environmental and social issues at the same power from central government to London and an time—not by enabling choices to be made between absence of conflict between the boroughs and London them but by delivering all of them. government. On the whole, that has been the case, The Bill needs to reaffirm what the whole purpose despite there being many different political colours of planning is: to achieve sustainable development. and issues—there has, on the whole, been co-operation. We should build into the Bill one of the many definitions It is really important that we do not suddenly start to of sustainable development that are current and indeed build in conflict to this sort of mayoral development occur in other Bills and Acts—that sustainable corporation. As you will know, London Councils has development meets the social, environmental and said—and I think the mayor is in agreement—that it economic needs of the present generation without would be comfortable making sure that something like compromising the needs of future generations. 50 per cent of the board places for these corporations The second element we ought not to lose sight of is were allocated to local boroughs. Using those kinds almost at odds with the current title of the Bill, of mechanisms, let us make sure that conflict is not because it reminds me of the prayer that says, “Lord, built in. make me good, but not yet”. The prayer for the I have an underlying frustration when I read this planning system is “Lord, make it local, but not too kind of legislation, which assumes that economic local”. I sometimes think that there are areas of planning development is regeneration and regeneration is economic decision-making that are not best made at local level. development. There is so much more involved in economic Under this Bill, we are seeing the demise of regional development. Culturally at least, I am not sure yet if planning and spatial strategies—but there needs to be there is a way to provide some sort of carrot within the an ability to plan at a scale above local. That is legislation; but we need to look at these re-energised important for two reasons. There are some activities local communities as mechanisms to bring in and subject to the planning system where the decisions can develop new businesses within their communities. An only be made at the scale above the local scale, like American mayor, if you want the honest truth, would waste management, flood risk management, the be looking at unemployment within his city and touting management of river basins and some of the biodiversity to every major corporation that could put together a issues that are about international considerations. Many business facility to match that employment need, trying of these cannot simply be resolved on the spatial scale to drag it, tooth and nail, to his or her community. We that is often offered at a local level. For example, if do not use that kind of potential here. I am not quite you make flood risk management decisions on too sure how to build that into this legislation, but surely it fine a scale—as I know to my cost as the former chief is part of the dynamism that should be inherent in executive of the Environment Agency—you run the localism. risk of simply flooding the folk downstream. However, there are also some decisions that are 7.53 pm simply too difficult to make at a local level. Waste Baroness Young of Old Scone: My Lords, I declare management is a prime example. Our waste management an interest as a vice-president of the Royal Society for infrastructure was stultified until we started to look at the Protection of Birds, president of a local wildlife making decisions about the location of waste management trust and president of the British Trust for Ornithology. facilities on a level higher than the local level. Decisions 213 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 214

[BARONESS YOUNG OF OLD SCONE] throughout what I have described as this great tome. had to be made about these very important facilities, All too often, legislators have decided that they know but no local community was going to accept them best. I do not seek to make a party point, because I voluntarily. The same applies to difficult decisions believe that Governments of all colours have had the between important wildlife sites and economic penchant for centralising power, but this Government regeneration that will create jobs. For local people, it is have brought forward a very considerable proposal to very difficult to take wise decisions about longer-term reverse this tide and give people in their own communities interests and intangible values that increase our a greater say in how best to run them. sustainability and quality of life, like biodiversity, I should declare my interest as a landowner, but when it may mean that you are actually voting against also as executive director of the Countryside Alliance. a job for local people. A truly local agenda has long been a main thrust of We need to make sure that we do not see localism as the alliance’s manifesto. Nowhere is this more true the sine qua non of the whole planning system and than in the areas of housing and planning in the recognise that some issues are best not dealt with on a countryside. The policy of imposing top-down housing local basis. The duty to collaborate between planning targets on local government has failed. Last month, a authorities and other bodies that is in the Bill is a bit report from the Institute for Public Policy Research woolly—it is only about strategic priorities and they suggested that England faces a shortfall of 750,000 homes have not yet been defined. We have to question whether by 2025. Not only would this mean that there would that will deliver the clear strategic framework, on a be insufficient housing, but it would also lead to a scale greater than local, that businesses, developers further 1.2 million people requiring social housing. and investors are crying out for. There are no sanctions There is already a shortfall, with nearly 1.8 million if local authorities fail to collaborate and there needs households on social housing waiting lists. This is a to be a reserve power of intervention by the Secretary particular concern for rural communities where young of State where they are, quite frankly, not getting on families represent their future sustainability. Some with the job. 11,000 new affordable homes per year are needed The third issue I want to make a plea for is not in over the next five years in settlements of fewer than the Bill, but is integral to all the provisions that 10,000 inhabitants. As there are some 16,000 small are—the whole question of planning guidance. I very towns, villages and hamlets across England, this should much support the words of the noble Lord, Lord be an eminently achievable target. Marlesford, in this. We are waiting for the emerging national planning policy framework and I hope a There are numerous examples of communities working draft will be available for us to look at soon. It will together to develop housing schemes. I was extremely replace a wealth of wisdom and expertise that currently fortunate to open one last month at Whitchurch in resides within the planning policy statements. If it Buckinghamshire for Hastoe Housing Association. removes that wealth of wisdom and expertise, which The parish council was closely involved and an attractive has been honed to be fit for purpose and useful over development was built next to the village school. There the past 20 years, and replaces it with something are now at least a further five children from the rather less adequate, that will be a backward step. development on the school roll. I am conscious of time, but there are two other I very much hope that the Government will find a issues that I will want to comment on during the Bill’s way forward in this Bill to deal with vexatious village proceedings. I very much support the noble Baroness, green applications, which have been used as a means Lady Parminter, regarding limited community rights of stopping or delaying much needed rural housing. of appeal; and we must do something about this These applications have been made despite planning weasel clause on local financial considerations that permission being granted and the parish council came in late and I hope will leave early. I am deeply enthusiastically backing the housing scheme, and suspicious of something that needs to be spelt out as a sometimes the houses have even been built and occupied. prior consideration. My experience has been that communities are opposed Let us not forget what we have learnt over the past to new housing if they feel it is being imposed from 60 years of the planning system—it is a jewel in the outside, is not meeting the needs of local families and UK’s crown and is much admired in other countries. all too often has been unsympathetic in its design. Let us not throw the baby out with the bathwater. We This Bill provides many opportunities for progress. should keep the best. We should enhance the role of the parish council, which should be trusted more to take local decisions. 7.59 pm These councils already produce parish plans, which in Lord Gardiner of Kimble: My Lords, a Bill that turn form part of supplementary planning guidance. seeks to provide new freedoms and flexibilities for The proposed neighbourhood development plans could local government and new rights and powers for build on and use these existing parish plans rather communities or individuals, makes the planning system than carrying out further expensive consultations. more democratic and effective and where decisions Communities will be given the ability to save local about housing are taken locally is to be warmly assets threatened with closure, by allowing them to bid encouraged. The main premise of this legislation is for ownership and management of community assets. soundly based, and one which I believe in its fulfilment— This is to be welcomed; there are already many positive and, from what noble Lords have said today, with examples. Indeed, in 2006 one of the Countryside refinement—will be of great benefit to the people of Alliance awards winners was Sulgrave village shop this country. Trust, and trusting people, must resonate and post office. When the village shop closed, it was 215 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 216 purchased by the village, through the parish council, the settings of historic houses and for those in conservation and is now run by 60 part-time volunteers, aged between areas should not be reduced, and the remit of the 16 and 80. independent examiner should be strengthened, particularly I express some considerable reservations, which in respect of the national planning policy framework have already been aired by a number of other noble Secondly, following the noble Lord, Lord Gardiner Lords, about the consequences—and I emphasise the of Kimble, who is my neighbour, the proposals around consequences—of the right to buy initiative as currently the community asset register have some unintended in the Bill. This by my reading suggests that local consequences. As any private or public building may authorities will acquire the right to put anyone’s land be nominated for the register, this provision may well or buildings that can be called community assets, on a have the effect of reducing rather than encouraging list, with no right of independent appeal. The owner the provision of private land for community use, because of anything on this list cannot then sell, give away, or of the fear of nomination. Also, problems are likely to transfer to his or her family that land or building until arise from the inevitable delays in making sales of the local community has had a chance to raise the registered property. There is, in the original Bill, no funds to bid for them, which could take up to nearly a provision of a right of independent appeal against year. We must find a way through so that this strong listing in the community asset register, and I would disincentive for owners to make their land available is like to suggest to the Minister that this might be a avoided. I use just one example to highlight this: if an sensible provision. owner wishes to transfer his farm to the next generation Finally, supporting infrastructure costs and local and in the middle of the farm is a field which he has finance considerations are an important part of the permitted the local cricket club to use, this Bill’s Bill. A fair share of the community infrastructure levy provisions as currently drafted could come into operation. needs to be secured for projects involving heritage I cannot believe that this is the intention of the Bill, by permitting local authorities to spend the levy on but I fear this may be the consequence. I ask the supporting our heritage and cultural environment. Minister to reflect on this as to how best this unintended Clause 100 permits local authorities to pass CIL funds consequence can be resolved. to other parties, which gives the flexibility for the Overwhelmingly, this is a Bill is intended to strengthen funds to be spent by a neighbourhood forum. However, local decision-making, placing trust in local communities it would be helpful if the specific case for supporting to take responsibility for themselves and to take decisions our heritage environment could be included in the Bill. which affect them and their future. For these reasons, As other noble Lords have said, the late amendment I support the principles which underpin it. to the Bill which makes local finance considerations a material consideration in planning applications is of 8.06 pm considerable concern. Financial considerations arising from a proposed development should not be considered Lord Stevenson of Balmacara: My Lords, I want to alongside planning applications and this aspect of the focus on the concerns raised earlier by my noble friend Bill should be withdrawn. Lady Andrews and other noble Lords about the proposed changes to the planning system, particularly as it 8.11 pm affects our historic and cultural environment. To quote from the DCMS website: Lord Redesdale: My Lords, that was a very brief “The historic environment is the physical legacy of thousands and extremely erudite speech. I will be equally brief, of years of human activity in this country, in the form of which will move the debate on quite considerably. I buildings, monuments, sites and landscapes. It reflects our history first must declare an interest as chairman of the as a maritime nation, of trade, population movement, architectural Anaerobic Digestion and Biogas Association, which endeavour, economic, political and social development and the has been put in place to promote the development of use of natural resources from prehistory to the present”. an AD industry. I have one issue that I wish to raise: I have managed to correct in my speech—and I hope the subject within the Bill that I ask the Minister to that it is picked up by Hansard—the spelling mistake look into is clarity on the issue of sustainable development. that unfortunately adorns the website. I believe that issue is a central tenet of what this Bill Following the noble Baroness, Lady Young,I believe should be about. Looking at other legislation, including that a robust presumption in favour of sustainable the Climate Change Act 2008, I think that most legislation development should be at the heart of the Bill to should be looking at the carbon implications of ensure that the new planning system truly allows the development in a low-carbon economy. present generation to meet its development needs without In a debate at Report on the Bill in the Commons, compromising the ability of future generations to the Decentralisation Minister, Greg Clark, agreed to meet their needs. produce a definition of sustainable development and I would like to make three specific points. First, planning policy through the national planning policy safeguards for the historic environment, currently framework. It is quite possible that that planning contained in PPS5, should not be undermined. PPS5 policy framework will not be in existence during the should be incorporated within the proposed national whole course of this Bill. In developing much of the planning policy framework and a draft of that document low-carbon economy which we are trying to build, should be available, alongside the Bill, before the therefore, we are being asked to accept that a central Bill is considered on Report. The composition of issue which will guide the thought processes will be up neighbourhood forums needs to be clarified, and the to scratch. We will be left in the situation of this neighbourhood plans should not supersede the powers House not being able to debate the nature of what of local, democratically elected bodies. Protection for sustainable development should be about. 217 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 218

[LORD REDESDALE] political underinvestment, which have to be reversed. I Sustainable development is of course a difficult consider that the parish and town councils, with term. “Sustainable” now often means carbon-based; community and voluntary organisations, are more in the past, it came from the international development than up for this and I pay tribute to the superb area. It was almost impossible to get officials to agree examples of collaboration already taking place—the on being sustainable because there was no indication noble Lord, Lord Gardiner, referred to one of those. of the cost of what “sustainable” meant. That has now The Bill is full of good ideas but little detail. I have to moved into the carbon aspect. However, we are being share the concerns about something claiming to empower asked to look at this Bill without understanding the communities but having the immediate effect of handing implications. The starting point of sustainable substantial powers to Ministers. development in carbon terms should be looked at. On the power of general competence, the recognition That has major implications because planning should in the Bill that parish and town councils are particularly not just be looked at in terms of individual properties; well placed to take on much of the localism challenge we now have to look at planning in the future, in a is enormously welcome. Those councils are essentially low-carbon scenario, as a holistic issue. creatures of place and locality—homogeneous they The waste review is about to come out and the issue are not—and they range from very small parish meetings of waste is of primary importance. In talking to many to huge town councils. Numerically, there are about local communities, there is an absolute fear of waste 8,500 of them across the country but their statutory processing plants being developed next to individual status, neighbourhood roots, principles of independence properties in areas of outstanding natural beauty or in and democratic and financial accountability have historic areas. However, there is the problem that we been much underrated. Their precepting power puts have to start understanding the carbon implications of them firmly in the category of local government. The not having a well thought-out waste policy.Transportation general power of competence will up their game and is one of the highest forms of carbon intensity, which provide a catalyst for renewed vigour. Yet they work means making sure that we understand that waste on relatively tiny budgets and, however one organises parameters are important. If we do not therefore non-parished areas in future, the neighbourhood understand sustainable development in carbon terms equivalents are going to need to be based on some of and what priority it is to take, we will have a problem these principles and have some of the resource implications in that we will not be able justifiably to say that we are to contend with. Assuming, of course, responsibility coming up with an efficient carbon technology. for taxpayers’ money, objective service delivery and I hope to put down an amendment at a later stage public confidence are the aims, then those sorts of of the Bill. However, if the Minister could indicate benchmark are important. at what stage the Government could give some information As for standards, while agreeing with a light touch, on the development of that planning policy framework I would certainly support the suggestions of the and what sustainable development might mean in Committee on Standards in Public Life that its seven that, that amendment would obviously not be necessary. principles be embedded overly, and perhaps more enforceably, in this Bill than appears at the moment. 8.15 pm The plans for local referendums, by contrast, look Earl of Lytton: My Lords, in addressing the House top-heavy and bureaucratic at parish level and they for the first time in nearly a dozen years, I first express risk undermining the very purpose that they set out to my appreciation and gratitude to the Cross-Bench achieve. This part of the Bill needs to be reconfigured electorate for having readmitted me and for the warm on a more local scale. welcome that I have received from many noble Lords Many noble Lords have mentioned assets of since I arrived back. As recycled material, I hope that community value. All I would say—I do not wish to my utility and usefulness will not be too limited. Like repeat what others have said—is that I do not believe many other noble Lords, I have many interests to that this was asked for by the parish and town council declare: I am the president of the National Association sector. Local people want the ability to secure those of Local Councils, which represents parish and town things, especially services, that make their community councils, and of its Sussex county associations; I am a vibrant, cohesive and viable; they do not need much landowner and a practising chartered surveyor—I am anything more than that. There will be an impediment afraid that planning and development, valuation and to market processes and that is greatly to be regretted. all those other things form part of my general remit; However, the right for these communities to bid for and I have recently been involved with the Royal functions where principal authorities do not or cannot Institution of Chartered Surveyors land and society economically provide them is welcome, and I think commission, which has just reported its findings on that the Bill needs reinforcing in this area. community issues and property. My comments will necessarily be general but, first, I will skate over the spatial strategies issue, except I thoroughly welcome the Bill and the localism agenda. to follow the noble Lord, Lord Reay, in saying there is It is high time for them. The realignment of the way already a vacuum, with developers taking pot-shots at that society manages its affairs, possibly for future the system through the planning appeal process. That generations, is very important. We need to trust needs to be dealt with quickly if communities and the communities more and to connect the citizen with whole principle of planning are not to be subverted. government at all levels. However, this sort of cultural There is a huge issue of resources. We need to build change in attitudes will need a long timescale to bed social capital and a results-based process that will in. We have had decades of social, economic and drive greater individual and collective engagement in 219 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 220 local affairs. We also need things to be local in scale in much of what has been said about shops, pubs and terms of their complexity and bureaucracy and, of post offices, but it is their use that is important, not course, we also need accountability. necessarily the buildings themselves. It is a fundamental mistake for the Bill to include 8.21 pm land. When you include land, you bring a whole new ambit to this, as my noble friend Lord Gardiner of The Earl of Caithness: My Lords, it is a pleasure to Kimble mentioned in the examples that he gave. If welcome the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, back into the there was a wood next door to a village where people Chamber. He is a fellow chartered surveyor and we were allowed by the landlord to exercise their dogs, missed him when the plague of 1999 took him out would that be classed as a community asset? If the temporarily, but he has proved that there is still life landowner then wanted to dispose of that estate, he would after death. He will be a great asset once again to our find that bits of the land were subject to a community debates on local government. asset designation order, which would delay the sale of Listening to our debate today, I was reminded of the estate. There is much here that is intentionally when I was a Minister in the Department of the quite good but, in practice, will not work well. Will my Environment and I was about to start on a housing noble friend also confirm that if a community asset is Bill. My noble friend the late Lord Whitelaw said to purchased, it must be by a community organisation me, “Legislate on local government at your peril”. I and not one of the national voluntary bodies, such as wonder whether my noble friend Lady Hanham would the RSPB, which can use a local designation for its agree that those were wise words. I certainly thought land-grabbing purposes? they were after trying to take a Bill through this place. It is interesting to look at what is happening in rural There is a lot to welcome in this Bill. Clause 161 will and urban areas. Rural areas are much better at get rid of Part 5 of the Housing Act 2004 and the community projects. There are almost 10,000 rural dreaded home information packs—what a waste of community-owned buildings, with an asset value of time they were. It is so good that they have gone. £3.1 billion. Most of those are run with no paid However, having got rid of home information packs, management at all. The average turnover of a rural why have we not got rid of the community infrastructure community building is less than £9,000 as a result of levy? That was another thing that we argued against volunteer input. However, the real problem is the cost and was one of the sillier bits of socialism. Hopefully of refurbishing or enlarging the building. If, under the that might be looked at again. Bill, public funds will now be given to a community Localism is not a cheap and easy option. It is nice organisation, why are they not given to the landlord in in theory and it is often very good in practice, but it is the first place? It seems totally ridiculous to take an expensive and it is not going to be easy to put back asset away from a landlord, who would like to maintain what has been centralised. For example, referendums it but cannot spend the money, to give it to a community involve costs, which a number of noble Lords have group only for it to get the grant to do so. commented on, and neighbourhood planning requires We shall have lots of fun and spend a lot of time in local neighbourhood plans, which are dynamic and Committee. I look forward to it as much as the rest of change rapidly. That does not fit into the administratively your Lordships. convenient plan-making structures that we tend to put into Bills—the two do not coincide. The whole system has got to be made much more flexible and easy to 8.27 pm update. At the same time, such plans have to blend in Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe: My Lords, I share with the plans of the big national infrastructure many of the concerns about the Bill that have been programmes, such as airports or ports, which need expressed across the House during this debate. Many certainty. Once decisions have been made on what to of these reflect noble Lords’ particular interests and I do within the national structure, people must not be do not propose to repeat these, except to say that they messed about because these are important businesses. have given the House real cause for anxiety about I shall focus, as have several of my noble friends, on many of the Bill’s provisions. I shall restrict my remarks Part 4 of Chapter 4, which is concerned with community to some general points that strike me as particularly assets. My noble friend Lord Cathcart asked, “What is worrying. a community asset?”. We need to define it. The principle First, however, I make it clear that I support the of this is good but it needs to be looked at in much concept of localism. I agree with the principle that more detail. There is confusion over whether there is a those elected in a local area should be able to do what right to buy or a right to bid. The consultation paper is in the interests of the communities they serve, rather said that there is a right to buy, but the Bill says that it than do only the things that Parliament specifically is a right to bid. The two are very different. That needs authorises them to do. I certainly believe that local to be clarified. groups, so often supported by dedicated volunteers, There are two aspects to this. There is the community- are perfectly placed to take decisions that will make a owned land and the local authority-owned land. Will difference to their communities. Long before we became my noble friend confirm that all public bodies should familiar with the phrase “big society”, these groups be required to publish details of their non-operational were working to care for older people, run nurseries land, alongside a strategy for its disposal that actively and playgroups, manage co-operatives and give families identifies the land with potential community use or and parents much valued support and advice. Devolving benefit? That would be helpful. Then there is the other power to local communities and giving people a real aspect, which is privately owned land. I agree with say in how their local area is run makes sense. Indeed, 221 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 222

[BARONESS WARWICK OF UNDERCLIFFE] We have had much discussion this afternoon on my party has long believed this. As has been highlighted what real localism may look like. Real localism will already in this debate, when in government it took allow local communities to decide for themselves whether important steps in that direction. or not they want a mayor, and who their shadow I am concerned that the potential benefits of the mayor should be, and will require local authority pay new powers that the Bill proposes giving to councils policy statements to include the lowest paid as well as will be at risk because of the massive cuts in local the highest paid so that local communities can see for authority budgets. The Government’s rather bombastic themselves that there is fairness in local government barrier-busting rhetoric means little when councils are pay. But most importantly, a Localism Bill that delivers facing a total funding shortfall of £6.5 billion in the will be one that clearly protects the vital duties of local next two years, putting many council services under councils—those duties which were created by legislation threat. Coming at a time when the Government are and which provide services on which people rely. Those reviewing all duties of local authorities and talking in duties must be protected from the powers being proposed terms of demands, burdens and restrictions, it is vital for the Secretary of State by this Bill. that we have a list of protected council duties. I am particularly concerned about the need to protect services 8.33 pm such as libraries and duties towards children in care Lord Teverson: My Lords, I decided to take part in and the homeless. Will the Minister give us an assurance this debate as I wanted to congratulate the Government that this issue of protected services will be addressed? on the clause in the Bill headed “Predetermination”. Although the Bill in its current form gives local That measure would be unacceptable to me as a community groups and council employees the right to parliamentarian in the European Parliament and in bid to run local services, the cuts which the Government this House. However, when I am involved in local are simultaneously imposing on local councils will hit government I am restricted in the way that I speak about community and voluntary groups particularly hard. issues. I am absolutely delighted that the Bill addresses As others have already observed, far from doing more, that issue head on and abolishes the problem, or that as the Government assert, they may be able to do rather is certainly the way that I read it. When I became less. As I and others in this House have said on involved in local government two years ago, it seemed previous occasions, vital services cannot simply be strange to me that as a local representative I was shifted to voluntary groups as a way of cutting spending. unable to talk about what I believed ought to happen Although I would have liked to see Amendments 36 regarding, for instance, an important planning issue in and 37 that were proposed in the other place go my electoral division. through, as it would have set out the statutory provisions Last week when we were in recess, I caught up on to be protected under the Bill, I realise that we have to some of my council work and attended a meeting held deal with the Bill as it is. But therein lies my deeper by a local pressure group on the Cornish eco-town in concern. It is difficult to be persuaded that this Bill the St Austell area. I was not the local councillor for can deliver genuine localism when it confers so many that area, but one of my colleagues, who was, was present. powers on the Secretary of State to curtail it. Although Because he was on the planning committee that would these powers have received some amendment in the consider the application in two or three weeks’ time, all Bill’s passage through the other place, notably to through that meeting he had to say to his local electors ensure proportionality and to achieve a fair balance and residents, “I can’t say to you what I want to happen, between the public interest and the interests of any because of a thing called predetermination”. Of course, person adversely affected, I am nevertheless still deeply to his local electors, that was barmy. The person who worried by the wide-ranging nature of the Secretary of represents them, who they want to give strong leadership, State’s proposed new powers. one way or the other, cannot say what he believes. I am delighted that, under the Bill, that will change. I particularly share with many others a view that it is not desirable for the Secretary of State to be able to, It would be amazing if, say, under Lords reform, which was debated before this debate, we could not go “amend, repeal, revoke or disapply”, on to the radio and say what we felt or the way that we any duty on local authorities. In this regard the Bill would vote on that issue. That would be unacceptable has worrying echoes of the Public Bodies Bill, which to us as parliamentarians. I am glad that the Government so exercised this House in recent months. I spoke to say that that will be unacceptable for councillors as well. amendments on that Bill, declaring my interest as I also congratulate the Government on another small chair of the Human Tissue Authority, and we made area, which is how, when people are about to have some reassuring progress. As was pointed out by noble planning enforcement placed on them, they suddenly Lords during that debate, amending primary legislation apply for retrospective planning permission. I have by simple affirmative order is a device which Governments experience of that in my electoral division. After the must use with care. This House was urged from all whole process, all the time that has been put in by sides to reflect on the strictures of the Constitution enforcement officers and the legal work, it all goes back Committee, which clearly stated: “Departures from again. Local residents have found that those who have constitutional principle”, such as these Henry VIII been seen to cheat local planning decisions have yet again clauses, put off the day—perhaps for ever—when justice will “should be contemplated only where a full and clear explanation be done. and justification is provided”. I would be interested in hearing a comment from That explanation and justification are needed equally the Minister on one area of the Bill which has been in our discussion of the Bill before us today. mentioned by one or two noble Lords. It concerns 223 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 224

European Union fines. I do not understand how it to control or to take over various powers himself or would work. It relates to the European Court of herself. Having some 30 pages of the schedules governing Justice. I find it strange that there does not seem to be neighbourhood development and planning alone seems any proper way in which the Secretary of State would to undermine the entire principle of passing real power decide whether a local authority was guilty or how the to the people. I can see the need for some parameters. fine would be imposed. It seems to be a classic case of Clearly, where there is a need for national standards or judge, jury, prosecutor and executioner. That worries a national framework, such safeguards are essential me. I can see how it might apply in certain areas, but but, as it stands, the Bill seems to go far beyond that. can the Government assure me that it would not Maybe the Minister would be prepared to give an apply, say, to commission, which could become subject undertaking that powers will be invoked only where to an ECJ fine if it was not met on regional policy local decisions can affect such regional or national where some genuine mistakes had been made in allocation matters. Even with such an undertaking, I realise that of EU regional funds? Some fines, penalties and there might still be much discussion about what is rightly repayments from that can be substantial and could national or regional and what is not, but at least the disincentivise local authorities from getting involved underlying principle would be clear. Unfortunately, in European regional funding. even with all this length—or more likely because of The usual topics that I speak on in this House are it—much is still far from clear. energy and climate change. On that, I mention local The Government have decided—I congratulate them referenda. What concerns me about the 5 per cent again—to rip away years of creeping centralisation. It threshold is that that may include the nimbys but not a would be a shame if it was a missed opportunity to lot more. Will we have a real problem here with social sweep away at least some of the complexities and housing, which has been mentioned, renewable energy confusions that have grown within the system. schemes and other things which are part of government Unfortunately, in some areas, new and seemingly and national policy—usually, all sides of the political unnecessary complexities have actually been added. Is debate in this country? The implementation of those it, for example, really necessary to have five different policies, which are important to local people generally, referenda processes, with different rules and differences could be restricted by that provision. I have great as to their binding power? concern there and I wonder whether the Minister can Again, if 5 per cent of the local electorate express reassure me that, in matters such as renewable energy the wish to have an elected mayor, the local authority schemes and social housing, it will not be possible to must hold a referendum. That seems to be quite clear. freeze developments in those areas because of a fear of Why on earth then does the Secretary of State, in some local referenda or because turnout is so low that only instances, want the power to tell an authority that it those who really do not want those schemes vote. That must have a referendum whether or not the wish has is a concern. been expressed? Surely, the idea is that, in local matters, Reading the papers produced by the Library, I local people choose. Even more worrying is the Secretary noted that the Secretary of State, Eric Pickles, described of State’s power to install a shadow mayor. That has centralisation creep over the past few decades. To me, been mentioned several times, but seemingly the Secretary it seems more than creep. The thing that delights me of State will have the power to force the authority to most is that, throughout my political life, when I have put a shadow mayor, and the whole mayoral mechanism, been mostly fighting against Conservatives, I have in place even though not even 5 per cent of the voters always accused them of being the centralisers. They have asked for a referendum. That does not exactly have started the creep back towards localism. I sound like the acme of devolution. congratulate them and the Government on that. I look In the case of fines imposed on the UK by the EU, forward to the Committee stage of the Bill, and I hope I can see no problem with a principle that says that, if that the principle of localism will apply also to fines in the actions, or lack of actions, of a local authority can relation to rubbish collection, impositions as regards be shown to be the direct cause of an EU fine for the pay structures and local tax referenda. breach of an EU regulation which is binding on this country, the authority that caused it should carry the 8.40 pm responsibility for that breach. Why not? If they rightly Baroness Greengross: My Lords, I declare an interest want to be treated as grown ups they must—and I am as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. sure would—accept their responsibilities. However, Any Bill which devolves more powers to councils and they are rightly worried about the fear that central neighbourhoods and gives local communities greater government will see this as a possibility to transfer control over local decisions must be a good thing. I what are clearly their obligations on to others. A clear cannot praise the Government too strongly for going statement from the Minister that authorities will bear down this path. For far too long there has been a the burden of actions only to the extent that they have relentless move towards centralisation and I am delighted caused the problem, would be a clear and welcome that, at long last, we have a Government who are not statement that the Government understand the worries merely talking about it, but are setting out to do of many local authorities. something about it. However, as I started by saying, the Government Unfortunately, as currently drafted, the Bill would are to be congratulated on addressing what has been a leave us with a local government system that is too growing problem: that of centralisation. This is an complex, too prescriptive and in some ways even more opportunity that must not be wasted. I and, I am sure, centralist than the system that it replaces. For example, many others will be pleading throughout the passage there is the power of the Secretary of State to direct, of the Bill for something that really delivers what it 225 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 226

[BARONESS GREENGROSS] The whole question of how this works within a city promises: to devolve everything reasonably possible. I will take a lot of careful working out. Therefore, I hope that the Minister will give us a clear assurance on would like to see an intermediate stage in which the that, and that it is her desire to see that enacted in the plans begin to become understood and are widely simplest way. It would underline a principle which canvassed in the community, and in which it would be most of us—including the Minister, with her distinguished possible for the local authority to accept an informal career in local government—hold close to our hearts. plan as a material consideration in coming to its planning decision. That would be a much easier thing 8.46 pm to put in place in cities. Getting to a point where a Lord Lucas: My Lords, I do not doubt for a moment community is united behind a plan is years away. It that my noble friend will do exactly that. I look would be great to create those communities in cities, forward to a stream of accepted amendments over the but it will not be simple or quick. I would like to see course of the next month or two. something that will give the community a voice in its own affairs short of having to go through the whole I welcome this Bill. I share some of the reservations rigmarole set out in the Bill. that noble Lords have expressed this evening, but I will not dwell on them, as I want to concentrate on my Secondly, I would like to see a real emphasis on own points. The principle of the Bill—reconnecting openness. Communities will have a great deal to gain people with place, and giving free rein to local choice from the Bill, and wherever there is gain on that scale in the context of a wider strategic vision—seems to be there is the possibility of corruption. I would like to absolutely the right way to go. The Bill also contains a see it made absolutely clear that any transactions to do substantial shift in power and value from landowners with a neighbourhood plan will be open and will to local communities, which is going to be an engine remain open; it must always be clear exactly what has for change. Let me give the example of my local town gone on. In that context I very much share the concerns in Hampshire, where maybe a dozen sites around it of the noble Lord, Lord Filkin, about the abolition of might be developed in a substantial way. When they the standards committees and the associated arrangements. come to make their local plan, they will talk to those Why should a citizen now have no redress against a landowners to see who will give them the best deal. bullying councillor? That is a very retrograde step and With proper advice, they should be able to make some I look forward to addressing it in Committee. pretty cute bargains. The idea that the landowner We must be careful that neighbourhood plans are takes 90 per cent and the community takes 10 per cent free from attack by all the influences and rules that we is history. We are going to see something much closer have allowed to grow up in the context of local authorities to equality. that are big and strong and capable of dealing with In rural communities, there is real opportunity for them. I refer to things such as strategic environmental development. We are going to find that landowners assessments. No neighbourhood will ever be able to get used to receiving much less of the planning gain deal with that; the burden must remain at local authority than they do now. It will be seen much more as a level, and we must make sure that a neighbourhood collaboration between them and the community that plan cannot be attacked on that basis by anybody. they are part of, with a lot of the gain flowing to the There are very powerful collective interests, whether community. To my mind, this is as it should be, because historical or environmental, which are well funded the adoption of the burden which will be caused by and capable of taking a neighbourhood plan to pieces the development falls on the community, and they if they are allowed access. They must be confined to deserve recompense for it. They should be in a position local authority level. Their influence must be strategic to absorb that recompense. It is also the way in which and must observe the rules that apply to neighbourhood planning permissions for telephone masts, windmills, plans. We must not have a system in which a and other things which place a burden on the local neighbourhood defending its plan can find itself suddenly community will be settled. It will not just be the faced with a lawsuit from an outside pressure group. landlord battling to keep everything for themselves; it I will pick up many other things in Committee; I will be very much a negotiation with the community, suspect that my noble friend will grow tired of seeing to say, “We want a better telephone service here; who my name on amendments. Many points have been is going to have the mast? We are going to share in the made all round this House that deserve to be listened revenue from that”. I see a fundamental shift in the to. We have eight days in Committee; it will not be balance of power between landowners and communities, enough. and I welcome that. I think that that is absolutely the right way to go. 8.53 pm I hope to make some substantial proposals on the Baroness Whitaker: My Lords, I hope that the back of that. I think we need an intermediate stage, Minister will not think me churlish if, in the interests between where we are now and a full neighbourhood of time, I focus only on points not yet covered about plan. Neighbourhood plans are going to be difficult parts of the Bill that would benefit from amendment. I and controversial things to get to. They have got to be say in passing that I very much welcome the potential crowned by a referendum which can overturn all the for elected mayors. I have spent time in mayor-led work that has been put into them. Even in a relatively cities in France and their achievements in design, rural community it will be a chancy and difficult amenity and economic success are a revelation. It business. In the context of a city or a large town it will seems to work best if the mayor is a former senior pose great difficulties, with very diverse communities, Minister, such as Monsieur Chaban-Delmas in stunning as both right reverend Prelates have said this evening. Bordeaux, which has been beautified by the work of 227 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 228 the noble Lord, Lord Rogers of Riverside, or someone to need? What will be the role of the unelected on the way up. This might apply to the Mayor of neighbourhood forums in dealing with site applications— London. and parish councils? I hope that noble Lords will turn their revising The Government’s summary impact statement refers mind to two areas. Both stem largely from the abolition to the, of the regional tier of government. The first is design. “potential for a negative impact on supply”, The regional development agencies that are about to And to delay in “processing of planning applications”, be abolished were crucial in championing good design which is alarming, but the equalities impact statement and in providing invaluable advice and expertise, both that I read does not refer to Gypsies and Travellers at for buildings and for the whole environment—the all. Is the department not aware that Gypsies and Irish community space. The RDA-funded network of regional Travellers are an ethnic minority? It is surely discriminatory design review panels has been particularly important to have a practice of allocating, say, one-third of the in advising local authorities on important design homes in a new estate for affordable homes, but ignore considerations in planning applications. I hope that the need, equal in worth, for transit and permanent the noble Baroness will reassure me that this important sites for caravans. We have not decided, and could not resource will be maintained in some form, and that she decide, that the small number of nomadic members of will take the opportunity provided by the current our population have fewer rights than the settled round of planning reforms to strengthen the design majority; so we must arrange that they have a fair review process for the future. settlement. The enforcement impact statement omits To the uncertainty over design review must be the likely increase in eviction costs, each one of which added the cessation of funding for planning aid, which can run into millions, which will arise from the dearth stepped in to help small organisations with little capacity. of legal sites and consequent stopping on unauthorised Although some of this funding has been reallocated sites. Can the noble Baroness provide an estimate? and is to be used to support communities in the In sum, there are a number of clauses in the Bill, development of neighbourhood plans, it is not clear principally those dealing with the abolition of regional how such an ambitious policy can work, given the cost strategies, local referenda, the withdrawal of reporting on and complexity of developing such plans. Meanwhile, local development schemes, development plan documents, we welcome the presumption in favour of sustainable monitoring reports, neighbourhood development orders, development, which is, of course, allied to good design. community right to build orders, and retrospective We need to acknowledge the profound impact of planning permission, which could impact very adversely design on the way we live our lives, from the local on Gypsies and Travellers. I cannot find any mention transport system to the provision of wholesome amenities, of this in the impact statements, but perhaps the from our economic role to the all-important sense of Minister can tell me where it is. So may I ask her what well-being. account was taken of the likely effect on Gypsies’ and There is plenty of evidence that people will accept, Travellers’ rights under the Human Rights Act in or even welcome, new development when they are drafting the Bill? In conjunction with these concerns, I involved in its planning and design—but this needs an agree with my noble friend Lady Warwick about Clause 5. expert steer. How are neighbourhoods going to cope The power to repeal could include the public sector with this? Ministers’ acknowledgment that the design equality duty with barely any parliamentary scrutiny requirements in the housing and planning Acts will be or consultation and could adversely affect minority honoured is encouraging, but I ask the Minister why communities already suffering prejudice. How can these provisions do not, as the Bill stands, apply to fairness be safeguarded with such sweeping powers? neighbourhoods and how the Government intend to ensure that good design will be promoted and upheld There is one further part of the Bill which I mention under the new system. as needing a hard look, and that is an aspect of the community right to challenge in Part 4. This provision My second area needing a close look relates to the opens up public services to bids from community Secretary of State’s statement of compliance with groups. If such a group is a religious organisation, it is human rights. The basis of the problem lies in the exempt from the Equality Act requirement not to abolition of the regional targets for Gypsy and Traveller discriminate in employment or in the provision of sites and the drastic reduction of the capital funding. services, and there is nothing to prevent it including This means, in reality, that local authorities will have proselytisation as part of its service delivery. I think much less incentive to grant planning permission for this is inappropriate. We would not want—indeed, private sites or find land for their own. There is we do not allow—the public services themselves to already a shortage of authorised sites and that is the discriminate or to include a plea for a particular cause of illegal occupation and traumatic evictions. A religion as part of their package, so we should not very high proportion of local authority officials have allow an organisation performing a public service to said that they expect the community-based planning do so either. I look forward to the Minister’s response. system in the Bill to make accommodation for Gypsies and Travellers more difficult. 9.02 pm What has happened to the provision for local authorities to set up panels which must include under- Lord Greaves: My Lords, I declare an interest as a represented groups to promote the sustainability of member of Pendle Borough Council. In view of the their local communities in the Sustainable Communities contents of the Bill and the likely debates as it goes Act 2007? What monitoring arrangements will there through, I also declare an interest as vice-president of be, in fact, to check the number of sites relative the Open Spaces Society, and I remind the House of 229 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 230

[LORD GREAVES] because, despite the present budget difficulties, the my relationship with the British Mountaineering Council. council has been able to put some mainstream resources We have had an astonishing number of erudite speeches, into what it now calls its locality working team. many of them about planning. I was going to talk On Thursday evening, I am going to a meeting of about planning, and I promise the ministerial team the Colne and District Area Committee, an area that I shall be heavily involved in the planning section committee of Pendle Council, which takes a lot of of the Bill when we get to Committee, but most of decisions about what happens in our town and in our what I would say now has already been said, so I shall part of the borough. It consists of all the councillors just make a few discursive remarks about how I see the in our part of the borough. It does all the planning Bill in general. applications in that area but takes lots of other decisions For a start, I shall tell the House what I was doing as well, has resources to spend and makes decisions last night. I went to a meeting in the ward I represent quite independently of the central council setup. The on Pendle Borough Council, Waterside ward, of a important thing about these meetings is that people body called the NAG—the neighbourhood action group. can turn up and take part in the meeting. They can It consists of residents, ward councillors and local speak on any item on the agenda, tell us what they agencies and groups who are doing very valuable work think and very often change for the better the decisions within the ward, including an organisation called Open that are made. Door, which has just won The Queen’s Award for All that was done without any national legislation. Voluntary Service and does brilliant work. People There are no local government Acts, localism Acts or come together with a couple of officers from the whatever telling our council how to run area committees council who are part of the new locality working or how to involve residents in the working of the team, which I shall mention in a minute. It is an area council in various ways. We have done it because it was of very considerable deprivation. Under the census thought to be the best way to do it. At the time, there categories—the super output areas, as they are called— was a lot of opposition. Now, you could not tear the depending on which indices you take, it variously councillors and the council away because it works comes within the top 10 per cent to the top 1 per cent very well. of deprived areas in the country. The top is the most There is a lesson to be learnt here: under the previous deprived. It is not a posh, middle-class area at all. It is Government, the Local Democracy, Economic an area which has had active residents’ groups of Development and Construction Act came into being. various sorts for all the 40 years that I have been I think that there are six pages of detailed primary associated with it. legislation about how councillors should deal with If you go back 10 years, a series of residents’ groups petitions. During the passage of that Bill, I detained in different parts of the ward came together in a group the Committee for quite a long time, as the noble called the Waterside Community Network, which put Baroness, Lady Andrews, will remember, when I tried a lot of pressure on the council, the county council to point out that it was all nonsense. Councillors are and other public bodies, campaigned against problems perfectly able to make up their own minds about how in the area and for better facilities and ran local events. to deal with petitions. If they cannot, and do not, they Six or seven years ago, the then Labour Government can be turfed out and councillors with more sense can set up the housing market renewal scheme, and Waterside be found. was part of it. As part of that, they put a lot of One of the good things about this Bill is that it resources in to set up a neighbourhood management scraps all that petition nonsense. Instead, we have all scheme and, as part of what in those days was known this new referendum nonsense, which is far worse. It is as double devolution, attempted to move decision-making far more complicated and time-consuming, and will and involvement below the level of the local authority. be far more costly. I hope that the House of Lords will There were lots of pilot neighbourhood management kick it out. It is exactly the same kind of nonsense; schemes around the country, including in the HMR that is, the only way to get councils to behave reasonably areas. The resources were council staff and council when residents in an area want to put forward their community development workers who have done a views is to produce detailed, national legislation, along great deal of really good work. It is interesting that, as with reams of guidance and regulations. That is not a result of putting in council staff and resources, the localism. It is top-down legislation. original voluntary residents groups, which relied entirely The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, said something on voluntary involvement, atrophied and it all became really interesting when she explained what happens in part and parcel of the council-run scheme. her area when residents are “on the warpath”. That is All that money has been stopped now. It was always the other side of localism. It is people campaigning, going to be stopped. It was not just because of the agitating and deciding something for themselves, not Government’s cuts, although perhaps it has stopped a the council saying that it has got to be done this way or bit more quickly than it might otherwise have done. whatever. It is about going out and occupying a council As a result, we now have the NAG meeting where chamber with wheelchairs, which takes me back to my these people come together, but there are far fewer youth. It is a political rather than a bureaucratic and resources than there used to be. We have all got to start administrative process—not party political, but politics again. That is a lesson of governments spending a lot with a small “p”. People decide to do something about of money perhaps in very good ways and then suddenly a problem, they get organised and put the pressure on. pulling it out again. Most of the areas of neighbourhood This is the sort of thing that the kind of people who management in Lancashire have closed down. Throughout have written this legislation do not understand at all, Pendle, including in my ward, we are keeping it going but I think that some Ministers understand it only too 231 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 232 well. I hope that we can bend the legislation a bit so teachers, social entrepreneurs or residents, taking that people who want to agitate in this way will find it ownership of land, buildings and services and running easier to do so. We can provide structures for people to them. As I have repeatedly pointed out in your Lordships’ gain access more easily, just as we have provided House, there are nearly 50,000 churches in Britain structures to allow people access to our area committee. which, along with other faith communities, would be What we cannot do, of course, is force people to act. interested in playing a key role in the big society by However, the way to really get them involved is to stimulating an enterprise environment. There can be make them angry by closing something down or doing real social and economic benefits if local social enterprises things they do not agree with, but that is the way of are encouraged to run integrated services. This works the world. in practice because social enterprises, like churches, can look at the totality of the local context, the 9.10 pm experience of the individual and the family, and not just one bit of it. I and my colleagues have done this Lord Mawson: My Lords, I would like to take this for many years now in all of our projects, especially in opportunity to congratulate the Government on bringing East London, with some success. It is essential for us this Bill before the House. It holds important opportunities to create across this country a culture of learning by for local communities to take hold of their assets and doing. Part 4 of the Bill begins to give local communities use them to mould their own futures. In my view, the tools to do just that. Let none of us be under the particularly in the inner cities, too many people’s lives illusion that this is easy and that a few lines in the Bill have been controlled by the state, with disastrous will make change happen. There are real challenges results for some of the poorest communities in the here. country. The state has often been responsible for creating dependency cultures which breed poverty, apathy and The Bill in its present form asks for two extremely a lack of ownership. The human spirit, which always unequal parties—the local authority and the local seeks to create and take responsibility for life, has been partner—to work through complex community issues. dulled, and the taxpayer has paid the price. It is time This disproportionate relationship will result in the to begin to pass the ownership of and responsibility local authority holding all the cards and, if it is for local assets to local people. This Bill represents a opposed to the novel ideas presented in this Bill, it will small first step forward by boldly handing over public use its full hand to prevent change despite any paper sector assets directly to those individuals and organisations reassurances that the Bill can offer to the contrary. I who wish to help build their local communities’ future. had direct experience of this problem some years ago. I believe that the Bill will be welcomed by many Let me describe what happened in practice. communities and forward-thinking local authorities. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, Tower Hamlets For example, the mayor of Newham, Sir Robin Wales, had a new Liberal Democrat council. In a bid to bring is currently leading a debate on how his council can decision-making closer to the community, the Lib help residents take control of their lives and improve Dems divided the borough into seven neighbourhoods their situation and stop delivering services in ways that which would have some semblance of devolved control sustain and encourage dependence. over the decisions that affected them. Although this I would like to focus my comments on Part 4 which sounded innovative at the time, we soon came to is concerned with community empowerment, and realise that the fundamental concerns behind the thinking particularly Chapter 3 which enables voluntary and was wrong. This approach, in common with the ideas community bodies such as churches and charities, as of other parties which would follow, cared more about well as public sector employees delivering services, to implementing structures than about working with local express an interest in running a local authority service. leaders and the agents of change. The frequently shifting This is an important step forward. If we truly want to political landscape was tough on the people of Bow. empower communities, they need to take responsibility Every political change seemed to be followed by at for their own future by building enterprises and taking least three years of chaos while new structures were ownership of local assets. This very practical activity implemented and old ones taken down. During these can, in my experience, not only develop entrepreneurial chaotic years, my team and I decided to forge ahead skills but also, in diverse communities, create community and encourage people from the voluntary sector to cohesion and build new relationships. One of the ways work with people from the public sector on a joint to ease racial tensions is by investing money in practical project which could, we hoped, offer an intelligent projects where people from different communities response to some of the so-called intractable social have to come together to take hold of their futures as problems. individuals. We would see greater unity in the divided The chief executive, Bill Tomlinson—a good man— communities of Bolton and Bradford if the Government wanted to take the localism agenda further and began to hand over physical assets to those local explored the transfer of local authority services to communities, apply funding streams in a way that community organisations, a somewhat radical idea at brings people together, and demand the input of the time. The Bromley-by-Bow Centre decided to look community practitioners and activists. Practical projects, at each area of council activity in our local area and if managed well, can be game changers in local see which services could be contracted out to us. We communities if the public sector gets out of the way were proposing a long-term contractual relationship and gives local people the space to be entrepreneurial. instead of one based on short-term grants. Every Innovation in health and education will not come Friday afternoon my colleagues would sit down with through speeches, policy papers and strategy documents. Bill and one of his heads of services and attempt to Change will come through local leaders, be they doctors, come to an agreement that would move the project 233 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 234

[LORD MAWSON] work with their local communities free from burdensome forward. Some of the conversations were positive and regulation. In recent years, that freedom has been some were straightforwardly hostile, but eventually seriously eroded. Councillors are far too often warned we agreed a contract comprising three elements of off pursuing particular policies because of a possible responsibility that we—at that time a small voluntary clash with other laws and regulations or the threat of sector project—would take charge of. The services to judicial review, as my noble friend Lady Eaton outlined be transferred to us were agreed as: running community earlier. This has been compounded by the real danger education classes; providing care services for local from no-win no-fee arrangements and the menace of elderly and disabled people; and running the local the compensation culture. This is particularly true in park. We believed that we had the capacity and experience the area of planning where overly burdensome rules to now take ownership of these services and run them on predetermination make it impossibly difficult for well; the council thought so, too. citizens to engage with their local representatives or to Unfortunately, one week after the ink was dry, the seek to get them to campaign on important local Liberal Democrats lost control of the borough to issues. I agree wholeheartedly with the remarks of the Labour even though our ward remained Lib Dem. As noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on this. usual, structures had to change. The infrastructure of Along with the welcome abolition of the Standards seven neighbourhoods was swiftly removed and, in its Board regime—I know that we have heard different place, Labour invented seven committees to run the views about that today—which encourages trivial borough instead. It took another five years until we complaints about local councillors and has become were able to start having a coherent conversation something of a busybodies’ charter, the clarification in again with the local authority. In 2000, a more dynamic the Bill of the rules on predetermination and the relationship began to develop between the centre, the introduction of the general power of competence will council and the health service. New, more business-minded return much needed freedoms to local councillors to leadership teams were thankfully appearing in these act in the best interests of their communities. public sector bodies. For 10 years we worked well When I was a councillor, I learnt from the pages of together. the Brentwood Gazette about the vital importance to How will the Government address the imbalance in local communities and to active citizenship of a vibrant this relationship so that two unequal partners, operating and informed local media. By that, I mean not just the with different scales of resources and responsibilities, local newspaper—which is highly significant in any can achieve a desired outcome? Will this Bill actually community—but also local radio and the local advertising be practicable for a local social enterprise to successfully community, an equally important part of the civic challenge its local authority and seek to run a service? tapestry. In a few small respects, there are issues in the The key, I believe, lies with who decides the specifications Bill which impact on this local media landscape and I of the service and the cost. Will that person be independent want briefly to highlight them. In doing so, I declare and local so that the devil in the detail is understood? an interest as executive director of the Telegraph There needs, of course, to be provision for the possibility Media Group and as a director of the Advertising that a community organisation, like any part of the Standards Board of Finance, which funds the work of public and business sectors, can fail and that a service the Advertising Standards Authority. contract or community asset will need to be recovered The vast majority of the objectives contained within by a local authority. Again, getting the detail of this the Localism Bill pertaining to advertising, including right will be important. restrictions on the placement of advertising trailers in My question to the Minister is: does anybody currently fields as well as on fly-posting and graffiti, are to be drafting this legislation have personal experience of warmly welcomed, but there is one minor exception challenging a local authority when trying to deliver a relating to outdoor advertising and to Clause 111. service? If the Minister would find it helpful, I would Outdoor advertising sites play an important role in the be willing to share our considerable experience in this life of a community. Around 30,000 large roadside area and explore together how we might make this billboards nationwide advertise local services, liven up piece of the legislation workable in practice. derelict areas and often act as important points of public information. The vast majority of these advertisements comply fully with the law and with the 9.20 pm codes of advertising practice policed by the Advertising Lord Black of Brentwood: My Lords, I warmly Standards Authority. Very occasionally, however, a welcome the Bill. I have some specific points to raise local planning authority finds it necessary to take on certain aspects of it, but, before doing so, I shall enforcement action against a site where the media make a brief observation about what I believe will be owner has not apparently complied with relevant the highly beneficial impact of the legislation on local legislation in obtaining planning permission. authority members. At the moment, outside London, an advertiser has I was a district councillor in Brentwood in the late the right of appeal against that decision to a local 1980s. Although I have played no subsequent role in magistrates’ court, which can weigh up the issues and local government, I know that public service and the reach a swift decision without too much cost to the burdens that go with it have changed considerably local authority or the advertiser. Disputes can be since then and not always for the better. I may be a resolved without fuss where they should be: in the little dewy-eyed about it, but, back then, it seemed community involved. That is localism in action. It is a that councillors were relatively free to campaign on different matter within London, where, under Section 11 issues, to talk openly about planning issues and to of the London Local Authorities Act 1995, there is no 235 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 236 right of appeal and an advertiser can challenge a with the spirit of this Bill—and I hope that at some decision, at great expense, only by judicial review. This point during the passage of the legislation the Minister is a power which in two judgments of the High Court, will be able to reassure us on those points. most recently by Mr Justice Irwin in Clear Channel v I hope these small points I have raised can be tidied London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham in 2009, up in Committee because this is an excellent Bill, has been described as “draconian” because of the lack which I believe has the potential to be as significant in of an appeal process and because media owners are handing real powers to local people and energising often deterred from challenging a possibly erroneous them in their local communities as the right to buy was use of a power by a local planning authority because in the 1980s in creating a property-owning democracy. of the costs involved. In doing so it will have my wholehearted support. It therefore seems quite wrong that a Bill dealing with localism should seek—as it does in Clause 111—to 9.28 pm remove the common-sense, local right of appeal within local authorities outside of London and replace it Baroness Thornton: My Lords, since the Government with this draconian, anti-local and unfair regime that have completely failed to provide me with a health Bill exists in the capital, clogging up the valuable time of this summer, I thought I might keep in legislative the High Court in the process. That is completely the shape by taking a look at the Localism Bill; and wrong way round. Surely we should be respecting the indeed the person responsible for it. Eric Pickles was rights of local communities to deal with such matters in my younger years—and indeed his, because we are within those communities rather than in a far off the same age—infamous as the leader of my home court by importing into London the system that works town, as well as that of the noble Lord, Lord Patel: so well outside rather than the other way around. That Bradford. We bear the scars, I have to say. He managed would be real localism. to wreak significant damage on the fabric of the city before he lost an election. Dealing with this point would also cover off an important point of principle. As far as I can tell, If noble Lords will bear with me, I would like to Clause 111 appears to be extremely unusual in the take a small trip down memory lane with Mr Pickles context of this legislation in that it is the only provision and then I will address my remarks to the community within Part 5 relating to planning that lacks any right right to challenge and right to buy. I expect the Prime of appeal. That cannot be just and I hope we can deal Minister believed that Eric Pickles’s time as a councillor with this constructively in Committee, as it is at heart and leader in Bradford qualified him for this job. a technical not an ideological issue and one that I However, I wondered if the Prime Minister had read a believe has cross-party support. book called The Pickles Papers by Tony Grogan. I recommend it to your Lordships’ House; I recommend I will make one very quick point about local newspapers it to David Cameron, to the coalition partners and and their scrutiny role in the local community, a point particularly to the civil servants at the DCLG and touched on by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of perhaps the Bill team. It tells the story of what Eric Norwich earlier. As this House has discussed many Pickles likes to call the Bradford revolution. As my times, local newspapers have a vital role in scrutinising noble friend Lord Beecham has suggested, there are local authorities and the way in which local taxpayers’ parts of the Bill that reflect the obsessions of Mr Pickles, money is spent. If localism is to mean anything, and and, if I might add, it feels to some Bradfordians that this legislation is to work in practice, it must mean that there are parts of the Bill that are about settling some local people have access to information about how old scores. decisions are taken. How else can they take advantage of the exciting new powers this Bill offers them, which I remember the so-called Bradford revolution well, my noble friend Lord Wei outlined earlier? as I am sure the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, would too, were she in her place. This period had all the In recent years this has become more difficult with ingredients of a soap opera rather than a council the move to cabinet-run councils taking secret decisions chamber: intrigue, double-dealing, ambition, power, behind closed doors. The provisions in the Bill on the sex, money, conspiracy, corruption, betrayal and establishment of oversight and scrutiny committees to blackmail. They are all in the book. I have to say, my hold the local authority executive to account can help Lords, do not get too excited about the sex or blackmail. roll back that tide and allow such committees to What we actually saw was a city leader in Bradford become a valuable addition to public access rights. who was mostly financially supported by Conservative However, this is not a substitute for a free and vigorous Central Office and using Bradford as a Thatcherite local press, which must be allowed rights to attend the experiment, with the slimmest of majorities. Indeed, actual local government meetings at which decisions with the casting vote of our lord mayor, whom Mr Pickles are discussed. confirmed in his position for two years instead of the That is why I am concerned that the Bill does not usual one, he then revealed a plan to wipe out what he more clearly limit the fairly widespread ability of local called the municipal socialism of Bradford for ever authorities to exclude the local media from access to and to transform Bradford Metropolitan Council into meetings. This can be remedied if the Secretary of Bradford plc, with himself as chairman of the board State is prepared to issue robust regulations under of directors. He did significant damage to the city—and paragraph 11 of Schedule 2 to the Bill and the new I am very much aware of some of this, because members Part 1A of the Local Government Act 2000, which are of my family worked in the voluntary sector. He tried predicated upon openness. I am sure that this is the to kill off the voluntary sector, including organisations instinct of the Secretary of State—it certainly fits in which promoted racial harmony. His cuts created huge 237 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 238

[BARONESS THORNTON] asset transfer from both public and private property hardship in the poorest communities. He closed down for nearly 20 years, tells me that three months would the youth services, and he raised the prices of meals on be wholly inadequate for this purpose, and even six wheels not once but twice in a year, and so on. months might be too short. This is one issue that we This may seem familiar to noble Lords. Just think will need to discuss. about the cuts that Mr Pickles volunteered local There are a lot of issues about the community right government for with great alacrity. Just think about to buy. For instance, there is the right of first refusal, the 142 extra powers in the Bill and the toxic Henry VIII wanting to avoid the bureaucracy that has made the powers in Part 5. As if to add insult to injury in Scottish model cumbersome, and the right of first Bradford, we are in line for a shadow mayor. I say to refusal being workable without additional bureaucracy. the noble Lord, Lord Wei, that he should beware—this I suggest to the Minister, given that this issue has been is not a politician to whom the words “big society” raised several times, that we should have a meeting to come easily, I suspect. discuss the issues of first refusal and asset locks. This I turn to the right to buy and the right to challenge, is such an important issue, around which I think there because I am an optimist. In a nutshell, the right to will be a great deal of consensus. buy is intended to facilitate the takeover of public There are several issues with the community right buildings and other assets by community groups and to challenge. Briefly, can the Minister confirm whether local charities. The right to challenge would allow in determining who makes an expression of interest to local groups to express an interest in running a local run a service the priority should be given only to local service which they felt they could provide better. The community groups? It seems important that the local noble Lord, Lord Mawson, spoke about the poetry in authority should have the option of procuring the the value of these proposals, but I intend to be slightly service directly from the organisation submitting the more prosaic. expression of interest, if it considers that desirable, yet that would obviously need to take place within the Could the Minister confirm that, although we are regulatory framework of commissioning. I recognise merely starting to consider this Bill—and this House that in some cases the EU rules or other requirements may have serious and substantial amendments to make will necessitate an open tender approach but that is to this part of the Bill, on the issue of asset locks or not always the case. whatever—the DCLG has launched consultations on the detail of supplementary regulations that will govern It would be helpful if the Government could encourage how these new rights are supposed to work? In terms commissioners to procure services from community of policy-making and parliamentary scrutiny, this seems groups who submit an expression of interest and, in not so much to be putting the cart before the horse as some cases, use a grant rather than a contract approach trying to bake the cake with only half the ingredients. as a suitable way forward. However, is that one-way traffic? In other words, what happens if there is an With regard to assets of potential community value, electoral mandate to continue to provide a service currently it is not clear whether the asset listing can in-house, perhaps based on the unsatisfactory experience include assets which are of potential community value, of an out-of-house provider? It seems that the Bill as well as those that have had community value in the looks at it as one-way only. Perhaps the Minister could past, or currently. The Bill indicates this would be clarify that issue for me. possible, but the consultation paper actually indicates I am concerned about how the right to challenge otherwise. This seems to be of obvious and a lot of will manifest itself and I will be seeking reassurance importance. Often community organisations can find that there is a proper test of community and accountability. new and transformative uses for assets which otherwise I fear that we may have a case here of the old-school are underused or even liabilities. Will the new powers Conservative “councils should meet once a year to encourage creative and innovative community action? hand out contracts” faction engaging in an awkward For instance, derelict land is a good case in point, and dance with the new-wave “radically devolve powers to there are very good examples of this. local communities” faction. The result could be that One consequence of not allowing the right to apply the right to challenge would look less like a tool for to assets of potential community value would be to community empowerment and more like a lever to create a disincentive for landowners to allow informal accelerate access to the private sector. I am sure that is use of property by the community, as the Countryside not the intention, but we need to make sure that the Landowners Association complained about, which has safeguards in the Bill mean that it cannot happen. already been raised today. If, however, the right also applies to assets of potential community value, then 9.37 pm the fact that a landowner had previously allowed Lord True: My Lords, I declare an interest as leader community use would become of less consideration of a London borough that, under successive management, for local authorities in determining which assets should has practised localism and is vigorously practising it be listed, so the disincentive would be diminished. now without Parts 4 and 5 of this Bill. I strongly The Government need to address the issue of the support the Bill’s principles. It is a sea change, as moratorium period, as they need to strike the right others have said, from the old top-down ways in its balance between the interests of property owners and inspiration. Good local government is certainly, in the the challenges facing community groups. A period of old cliché, close to the people. I also believe that it three to six months may not be enough, and Locality— should be ready to yield power to communities and previously the Development Trust Association—which the people and I agree with a lot of what the noble has been working with community groups on community Lord, Lord Mawson, said. 239 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 240

If people genuinely believe that becoming involved It could be a licence for politically-organised single-issue will make a difference, they will turn out at elections, campaigning, which will not encourage mature and come to meetings, go on demonstrations, yes, and open decision-making or help local communities. If express intelligent views and run things. The Bill rightly we go down this road—I agree that referendums have wants to encourage that but the mechanisms for people value—the triggers should be higher. to do so must be accessible, comprehensible and Like others, I am sceptical about the complex transparent and I cannot say that about everything in machinery for neighbourhood plans and neighbourhood the Bill. In fact, probably only Whitehall could think forums. There are good ideas there, but they need localism and write a 430-page government Bill to more exploration. If neighbourhood planning is already deliver it, as the noble Lord said at the outset. The happening at local authority level, why duplicate it? In essence of localism is infinite variety. We must not our borough we are trying to do neighbourhood planning chew up creativity and variety in an overheated word already, and I believe that to be effective it needs to be processor and I know that Ministers do not want that dynamic, open, almost anarchic, as the noble Baroness, to happen. Lady Bakewell, said, and not on a rigid model. People Your Lordships will not be surprised that I, like come in the doors and put their points of view for others, regret that the elixir of localism evaporates in different reasons and in different ways. It needs a London—the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, made this changing cast of people involved as the questions in point. London boroughs cannot initiate development different areas evolve. To work, it has to involve far corporations under the Bill; the mayor must decide. more than 21 people who cannot be moved on for five Our regional planning strategy is not being abolished years in some cases. and we are still under City Hall. When our local We must not create a disincentive for local authorities authority agrees that a three-bedroom house may have to take a lead. What would happen if—as in our up to two parking places, London regional government case—having invested years working informally to instantly intervenes to say that it can be only 1.5 spaces. design neighbourhood plans in concert with thousands Try explaining half a car space to a local resident. The of people across the borough—up pop groups of point is that there is not much localism there, and campaigners or, worse, civil servants, waving this Act where London is concerned there is not enough change and demanding it be done again. Like others who have in the Bill. In fact, regional government gains authority spoken, I believe it would be simpler to allow some and, by Clause 199, it could get even more. I would limited public third-party appeal where a local authority like to explore that in Committee. did not follow its own plan. I am sorry that promise One answer might well be that there is a general was dropped by the coalition Government. In essence, power of competence. Like others, I welcome that and while strongly supporting the Bill in principle, and I thank Ministers for it. But how far will the system let believe it can be made an outstanding and historic this good idea go? I hope a very long way, because Bill, a good Localism Act might well be permissive, local government and local communities need change not prescriptive. It must treat local authorities as part and experiment in an age of technological change and of the solution, not part of the problem. It should let limitations on resources. local authorities whose adopted local development Already I hear some calling for more restrictions on framework does not reflect local views and neighbourhood the general power of competence. The problem is that plans tear up that framework. It is not clear to me that even now the general power will not trump some other Clause 97 allows that. It should. legislation. We are trying to set up social enterprises In conclusion I would say that I also worry about from within our local authority, but European procedures on the lists of assets of community value. procurement rules obstruct the creation of viable large- Here is a really excellent idea to protect local pubs, scale social enterprises freed from council control. We post offices and resources, but it has been expanded are spending quite a lot of money on lawyers for this too far and it is potentially invasive of rights. We will at the moment. Perhaps I could have better advice have to adjust that in Committee. As a local authority from the noble Lord, Lord Mawson. So I appeal to leader, I also welcome the community right to challenge, Ministers to resist attempts to confine this general which is very important. As my noble friend Lord power of competence. Jenkin said, why can local authorities not challenge to On the core aim of promoting public involvement, I do things? For example, a local authority could replace appeal for simplicity. Give local authorities the incentive a lazy RSL or, in London, perhaps run our high to involve people and I believe many more will do so. streets, instead of a remote body such as TfL. Some parts of this Bill still assume that local authorities The Bill will improve local communities in many will not listen. As a result, they offer challenge procedures ways. In essence, we need to be more experimental and that risk being complex and costly, as other noble supportive, and less prescriptive. Parts of the Bill will Lords have pointed out, and potentially far more open need to be pared down and it must not be made more to use by political parties or lobbies than the average complex. I hope it emerges from this House thinner citizen. I applaud the intentions, but some effects but no less focused on the vital objective of involving could be perverse, and I think we can improve them in local people in decisions that affect their lives. Committee. I support referendums on excessive council tax rises, but, as other noble Lords have said, the plan 9.46 pm to unleash referendums where just 5 per cent of local people in an electoral area ask for one—it might be Lord Boateng: My Lords, localism has many friends 300 people or so or even a couple of perhaps disgruntled on all sides of this House. I suspect that, as we councillors—may be highly time-consuming and vexatious. consider the Bill and seek to improve it, we will 241 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 242

[LORD BOATENG] groups on the ground—we are grateful to ACEVO, approach that task in a friendly way. We all believe in the Association of Chief Executives of Voluntary localism because of our own experience, with so many Organisations, and to many other organisations of us having grown up, as it were, in local government. representing the voluntary sector for giving us the There is, however, a problem. For localism to be relevant statistics—is that some councils are responding delivered effectively on the ground requires two things to spending cuts by looking after their own and are in particular: trust and risk taking. In my experience passing on disproportionate cuts to the voluntary of government, Ministers do not much trust anyone sector and to community groups, thereby reducing the with their pet projects—those policies that they have very community capacity to build the big society that been striving to bring to fruition for so many years, we need. particularly those bitter wilderness years in opposition. The Minister will recognise the importance of small Now that they have the opportunity to do it, they are community groups in promoting good practice. For being asked to cede power. The Treasury trusts no one. example, the Pepper Pot Day Centre—an organisation I say that with hand on heart. Civil servants are not that she will know well because she was a strong prone to risk taking. I say that having been one. supporter of it when she was a distinguished leader of Therefore, in those circumstances we have a problem— a local authority—has pioneered innovative ways of something that has contributed to the schizophrenia caring for the ethnic minority elderly. The fact of the that lies at the heart of the Bill, as has been exposed matter is that such small voluntary groups up and and shared with us by several colleagues, again on all down the country are threatened by the cuts. I am sides of the House. They point on the one hand to the afraid that we do not always find sympathy in local Secretary of State giving and on the other to the government for such groups or a willingness to cede Secretary of State taking away, or holding close to his power. We do not always find a willingness to protect own chest. That is something that we will have to deal such groups, some of which are rather difficult and with in Committee. We must engender a little more challenging—they are all the better for it—from the trust and create space for risk taking, recognising that, impact of cuts. The prime example of the big society from time to time, localism will go wrong. We have to to which the Prime Minister referred when he was be prepared for that. asked what he understood the big society to mean was Reflecting on the comments of the noble Lord, the citizens advice bureaux. Those bureaux are bearing Lord True, one person’s variety is another person’s the brunt of local authority spending cuts. postcode lottery. The challenge, therefore, is to create I hope that during our deliberations on the Bill, the a context in which it is possible to unleash and unlock Minister will have her civil servants brief her on the the potential that comes from local communities; and report of the Commission on Big Society. I declare an to give people an opportunity to have a go, feel engaged interest as I was a member of that commission. It was and have a sense that their activism counts for something chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, and included and can go beyond mere protest to the tough, rough among its number the right reverend Prelate the Bishop business of delivery, which many of us who have been of London and a Conservative member of the other local councillors know something about. How can we place, but perhaps even more significantly, members achieve that when, at the same time, there are huge and leaders of voluntary sector organisations from restraints on public spending and resources are a real all over the country. The commission made three issue out there in the field? That will require all the recommendations which I should like to share with ingenuity and good will that can be mustered across the House, and which I hope the Minister will consider central government. as we move onto the next stage. We are also faced with the challenge that the Bill is being introduced alongside the restraints on spending The commission’s first recommendation states: at the same time as the Government are rolling out “That the Government amend the Public Services (Social Enterprise their big idea. However, I argue that it ought not to be and Social Value) Bill so that it requires commissioners to consider seen as the big idea of any one Government as it is not just the full social, environmental and economic impact of something that we all ought to be able to recognise as their decisions in awarding contracts to different potential providers, having real value—that is, the concept of the big as it does currently, but also explicitly to consider the impact of their decisions on individual and community empowerment, and society. If the big society is to be made a reality, it has to do so when decommissioning or cutting a service as well as to be about empowering individuals and communities. when commissioning one”. If that is to happen, we are going to need more than strong, active local government; we shall need strong, That would make a real difference and concentrate the active communities because localism is not just about mind in a way that would enhance, rather than detract getting the balance right between central and local from, the big society and localism. government but about enabling individuals to come The second recommendation states that, given the together at grass-roots level to take responsibility for threat to so many smaller voluntary organisations up their own lives and communities, and to do so within a and down the country, the Government should, legislative context that is truly enabling and empowering. That is the trick that we have to pull off in Committee “shorten its consultation period, and make its proposed guidance on local government funding avoiding disproportionate cuts to and as the Bill goes through Parliament. We should the voluntary sector”— welcome the opportunity to do so. In some ways it is a pity that we did not have this that is, through the impact of the statutory sector’s opportunity at a more auspicious time in terms of decisions on the voluntary sector— the public finances because the reality for so many “with immediate effect”. 243 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 244

That would provide some immediate relief for some of about how that can be described as anything but: “We the organisations who are currently bearing the brunt at the centre know best; we know you have mechanisms of so many of the cuts. now for a directly elected mayor, if you wish, but let us Finally, the Government should, show you the error of your ways”. I think the Minister “require local councils to publish their spending on the voluntary will have got that message from the House this evening. sector, as the Minister for Decentralisation has previously called A lot is going on in the local scene. Over the past for, and … the Treasury collate, quality-assure and publish the few days, we have had long debates in this Chamber on information, so that councils can be held to account by civil the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill. Reference society groups” has been made during those proceedings to this Bill and can be subject to proper public scrutiny. and, among other things, to possible confusion between All of that is doable in the context of the Bill. None mayors—the post-holders—and police and crime of it requires additional public expenditure, but it commissioners. If we have coincidental elections, we would make a reality of the localism that we all seek, shall make the problem even worse. the localism that truly enables and empowers. I am also concerned about the costs to local authorities inherent in this Bill. I am not concerned about the 9.56 pm costs of democracy, but do we need legislation for the Baroness Hamwee: I should declare an interest as referendum on the council tax and the other referendums? joint president of London Councils, vice-president The need to manage local expectations worries me and past president of the Town and Country Planning considerably. On the community right to challenge, Association, and, as I remain a member of what my anyone who has been in the private sector knows the noble friend Lord Tope calls the local government costs for everyone when there is a beauty parade of party, as an ex-member and chair of the London Assembly who can pitch the most persuasively. On the provisions and a past member of a London borough council. about community assets, is it just the lawyer in me that I find myself torn over the Bill. The Government stumbles over restrictions on the disposal of one’s own acknowledge and seek to address ingrained centralism. property? Will there be an unintended consequence I acknowledge that I have talked tediously over the that property will not be developed in the widest sense years about seeing power not as granted from the for the good of the community because of a fear by centre but as coming up from citizens. I say citizens, the owner of losing out in the longer term? because citizenship is an important concept and The neighbourhood fora are self-selecting, unaccountable, community, which is also important, begs almost as without proprietary rules, and so on. The noble Lord, many questions as it answers. Community empowerment, Lord Lucas, alluded to that. The local authority will as others have said, reflects a rather top-down attitude. have a lot of shepherding and support in this area I am sad to say that I read the Bill as rather for neighbourhood development orders which will, in anti-democratic. Representative democracy, to which effect, give planning consent. They seem to me to other noble Lords have referred, is about the vesting contain the seeds of real difficulties beyond resources. of trust in representatives at a local level: representatives The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby who are in a position to raise their sights, to make referred to the advantaged position of those with connections between issues and assess priorities. That social capital and, if I were a resident of a village is to be bolstered. I would like the Government to which wanted to keep it just as it was, I would recruit exercise a self-denying ordinance and get away from like-minded neighbours and make sure that we had no the mindset that they need to protect people against additional housing in the neighbourhood and I would their local authority. shift the issue on to other villages that were not so The Secretary of State at CLG could play a big quick off the starting block. I think that was the point advocacy role within Whitehall on behalf of local made by the noble Lord, Lord Cameron. If a local government—I suggest education and taxation for authority does not have up-to-date, adequate housing starters. I share the view that the provision for referenda assessments, how will an examiner, who looks at a on council tax increases above a centrally set ceiling is local plan, consider it in terms of housing numbers? capping under another name. I would like to put in a word for the strategic, There is also an obligation on local authorities to following the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews. Should rise to the challenge. I hope that the power of general planning not be a strategic activity? The regional tier competence will not be so constrained that local authorities has gone, essentially, I think, because of the politics. and members will be tentative about its use. We are What failed? Was it the concept or the practice? We told that the Secretary of State does not intend to use need meaningful, effective strategic planning. The duty the wide-ranging powers to limit the power of general to co-operate does not deal with, for instance, the competence and that he will use it lightly, but being spatial boundaries of a catchment area. It seems to me told that may not be enough. I am with the noble to be quite circular. If everyone has to co-operate with Lord, Lord True, here. everyone else, but there are no shared objectives and The Bill does not go back to first principles. In grafting no shared priorities, how do you start or how do you this power on to existing provisions, is the Minister get off the merry-go-round? Like my noble friend satisfied that there has been a thorough trial of pre-existing Lady Parminter and others, I am very unclear about legislation which will constrain local authorities? how local finance becoming a material consideration One of my first principles is that power is best will work. I am struggling to understand whether this shared. I have always had a problem with the model of runs counter to Clause 106, which deals with the impact the elected mayor and I have an even greater problem and the consequences of a decision—not the catalyst with the concept of shadow mayors. I am very puzzled for it. 245 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 246

[BARONESS HAMWEE] I would like to thank all those people who have The NPPF has been mentioned and the concerns contacted me by phone, letter and e-mail about the are recognising the links between the built environment, Bill; that gives me some idea of what people outside health, well-being, climate change, adaptation and so this House think about it, which is very useful. I will on. Echoing the noble Baroness, Lady Valentine, the make two or three remarks about what has happened notion of sustainable communities is really important today. As my bishop is still here—and I did warn him and it is important that we see the framework very that I would say this first—he pointed out that there is soon so that we can be reassured that it is not in a difference between a parish that is urban and a danger of going down the plughole mentioned by the parish that is rural. I hope that the Minister will noble Lord, Lord Marlesford. remember that; it is very true. Also, the noble Baroness, There is a purpose to planning and it needs to be Lady Scott of Needham Market—I should not choose stated. I do not see that sustainable development and all my local friends, should I?—was getting this mayor planning for prosperity need to be in conflict because and chief officer to be sorted out properly. With I do not think sustainable development is necessarily regard to having elections, but not on the same day, anti-growth. one of my friends from Northern Ireland asked me if I realised that the last time they had elections there, It has not been possible to touch on all parts of the some of them were first past the post and some were Bill. I congratulate the Minister and other noble Lords under the other system. How can you get people to who covered so much ground with so much expertise vote two different ways on one day? To get them to and wisdom. Finally, I will pick up the comments of vote for two people on one day is quite an achievement. the noble Lord, Lord Filkin, about standards. My noble friend muttered to me, rightly, that we must not The noble Baroness, Lady Valentine, was right to overreact to problems with the Standards Board and ask for a review as soon as possible, perhaps a year let those distract us from the issue. There is a lot to after whatever happens, starts. I also enjoyed the remark address in Committee, and our duty will be to ensure of the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, about the difference that the legislative basis is there for the cultural shift to between Pickles and Pericles. They are not quite the which the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, referred, not same person, but I enjoyed it. The last thing I noted, just job creation for the regulation drafters. and I hope that the Minister noted it as well, were the remarks of the noble Baroness, Lady Whittaker, about I said I was torn over the Bill; maybe the grand old regional things, such as regional design. That is more man, Mr Gladstone—not particularly a loyalist, I think important than people realise: otherwise, there will be —was right when he talked about, bits of London all over Norfolk and I do not want that. “trust of the people, tempered by prudence”. There will have to be many changes to the Bill. I look forward to the Committee stage, and I thank the 10.06 pm Minister—all in four minutes. Lord Walpole: My Lords, I declare my interest as a rural landowner, with various houses and workshops 10.10 pm and things. I am a Cross-Bencher, and the important thing about Cross-Benchers is that we are not whipped. Lord McKenzie of Luton: My Lords, I thank the We listen to the facts. I have been here all day, listening noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, for the manner in to facts, and they have been quite fascinating. Like which she introduced the Bill and for her expressed many Members of this House, I spent several years in willingness to engage in discussion on amendments in local government before I came into the House, first of areas of difficulty. This has been an extensive and all on the Erpingham rural district council, and then knowledgeable debate on an important but still flawed on the old Norfolk County Council. I continued after Bill. It was late in arriving at the other place and it was that particular local government reorganisation, as a significantly rewritten in its final stages there, which member of Norfolk County Council, and was involved puts a particular onus on this House to hold the with taking the structure plan to public examination. Government to account. In fact, I think I knew more about Norfolk for 10 days Amendments notwithstanding, there remains a massive than anyone ever has apart from the chief planning inconsistency at the core of the Bill, which the Government officer. I was also on the East Anglian Economic heralded as having the intent to transfer power to local Planning Council, until the noble Baroness, Lady Thatcher, authorities and local communities, but which is everywhere decided to get rid of us. fettered by constraints and regulation-making powers I looked at this Bill, when I first got it, in absolute held at the centre. The powers that will be wielded by amazement—the sheer size of it is daunting. However, the Secretary of State under Clause 5 were referred to I do agree with some of its objects. I hope that it will by my noble friend Lord Beecham and by many other enable co-operatives to be able to run local shops, noble Lords, and are simply not acceptable. The Bill such as we do in our village at Itteringham. It is a very was described by the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, as not good shop and responds to local needs. On the other written in the spirit of localism, and referred to by the hand, there are some objects which this Bill includes noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, as antidemocratic. It about which I am more doubtful, such as the Norfolk also caused the noble Lord, Lord Tope, to question his Museum Service discussion about using a trust to understanding of “localism”. run museums. Possibly this may help spend more We support localism, which gives communities greater money, but I am not sure they will spend it on the right opportunities to shape their future and the nature of things. The whole thing is sad, and we have got to their local environment, and how services are to be watch it. delivered. Where the Bill facilitates this, we will support 247 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 248 it. However, such opportunities must not be simply payment and to determine the overall indebtedness of nominal. As my noble friend Lord Patel of Bradford a local authority, thereby undermining the new self- and others asserted, they must be real for all members financing freedoms for local authorities. of our communities, not just for the well resourced The noble Lord, Lord Best, pressed the point—and and articulate. This is especially relevant for we agree with the LGA—that in the prudential code neighbourhood planning. As my noble friend Lord the sector already has an effective approach to managing Beecham explained in his brilliant opening speech, I borrowing, and that the ongoing risk of changes to will concentrate my remarks on the Opposition’s position the settlement creates an uncertainty which is unhelpful on planning proposals and comment on some of the to the planning of new investment. Many noble Lords finance and tax provisions of the Bill. referred to the planning system and the changes that As we have heard, the Bill gives to local communities the Bill encompasses. They are a major untested upheaval, the power to veto, through a referendum, excessive made worse by the blundering approach of the Secretary council tax increases; it is a one-way option only. The of State, who had to be restrained by the courts but Secretary of State will determine the benchmark for not before creating confusion and chaos for the local what is excessive; how the referendum will be conducted; planning authorities, developers and communities alike. the question to be put; the publicity to be permitted; We heard some powerful input from my noble expenditure levels that will be allowed; and how the votes friend Lady Andrews, the noble Lords, Lord Cameron, are to be counted. They can direct that the referendum Lord Marlesford and Lord Redesdale, and the noble provisions do not apply and decree the council tax Baroness, Lady Parminter, among others. The demise requirement that must operate. Effectively, the Secretary of regional spatial strategies and pronouncements to of State will set the maximum level of council tax ignore housing allocations have, according to the National increases each year, but will also set the terms on Housing Federation, already caused dramatic reductions which it can be debated with local communities—so of some 200,000 housing units being planned for in much for localism. We will seek to get on the record local development plans. how it is proposed that these powers will be used. We do not oppose the provisions for changes to the business The regional spatial strategy regime is to be replaced rate supplement, but it seems that apart from that by a duty to co-operate. There are to be changes to the introduced by the GLA for Crossrail, which is unaffected process of local development frameworks and a new by the changes, none is currently in contemplation. neighbourhood planning regime. Of course, alongside The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, made interesting this sits—although not part of the Bill—the incentive comments about infrastructure funding; perhaps we of the new homes bonus. The abolition of regional will have an opportunity to debate that in Committee. spatial strategies will leave England as the only country As to the broadening of powers for local authorities in Europe without a regional planning framework, to grant discretionary non-domestic rate relief, we with, in our view, the duty to co-operate as an inadequate note and concur with the impact assessment that, substitute. though welcome, there will be little appetite for funding In scrutinising these provisions we might start by such discounts when there is no new government borrowing from the Town and Country Planning money, and where the local source of funding will Association, which says: have to come from council tax payers at a time when “At its best, the planning system can create the certainty to threatened referendums will constrain what can be secure long-term investment and growth, address housing need, raised. Obviously, different considerations would apply secure sustainable development and help local people to have a if the Government were to deliver on their commitment real voice in the future of their community”. to the localisation of business rates, and we must It is a good yardstick by which to evaluate the Bill. scrutinise these proposals against that prospect. Perhaps the Minister will take the opportunity to update us on Do the Government still adhere to the five principles progress in this matter, and explain how the Bill will of sustainable development set out in 2005? We await ensure that the commitment can be accomplished, the promised draft national planning policy framework, together with ensuring that all authorities have adequate where apparently all will be revealed including the resources to meet the needs of their communities. promise that sustainable development will remain at Have the terms of the resource review finally been set, the heart of the planning framework. But the omens and can we still expect the report in July, before we are not good. We have had budget pronouncements— finish our Committee deliberations? change of use and promised land auctions, for example— which suggest other considerations might prevail. We As my noble friend outlined, notwithstanding have Clause 124, which elevates financial receipts in amendments, we remain implacably opposed to the the hierarchy of material considerations. This clause proposals to levy EU fines on local councils, and will was introduced with no consultation, dialogue or debate work with other noble Lords to have them removed and should surely not survive our deliberations. We from the Bill. As the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, and have the recently published draft NPPF of the advisory others rightly said, the LGA has designated these group, which has a weak and inadequate definition of clauses as unfair, unworkable, dangerous and sustainable development. Perhaps we can be told the unconstitutional—again placing too much power in status of this document. The Minister will understand the hands of the Minister. that in the absence of an acceptable draft of the We support the thrust of the changes to housing official NPPF, the level of concern will continue to finance, building as they do on the work of the previous feed attempts to get definitions of sustainable development Government. However, true to form, the Secretary of and the presumption in favour of sustainable development State cannot resist holding powers to reopen a settlement on the face of the Bill—a move which we will support. 249 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 250

[LORD MCKENZIE OF LUTON] resources to be redistributed in favour of areas where Given its significance, I do not see how we can demand for housing, particularly high-value housing, reasonably complete our Committee stage deliberations is strong. It can be no substitute for the necessity for without a chance to scrutinise a draft NPPF. We will local authorities to undertake a robust assessment of also continue to pursue amendments proposed by our housing need. However, such assessments of themselves colleagues in another place, focusing on putting the will only by chance aggregate to what at national or heart back into our high streets by requiring local sub-national level amounts to overall need, including planning authorities to include a retail diversity scheme the social housing needs of those on low incomes. within its local development framework. There is plenty in this Bill to keep us busy in the The duty to co-operate is the Government’s attempt coming weeks. We will scrutinise it rigorously but to recognise the need for co-ordination at a spatial responsibly. I doubt whether eight days will be enough, level higher than individual local planning authorities. given the debate we have had today. We will work with Despite amendment, it falls short of an effective strategic others and in particular will seek to: roll back and approach to planning. Assessment of whether constrain the raft of powers to be held at the centre co-operation has taken place will be made retrospectively which imperil vital services, particularly those in Clause 5; at the local development plan soundness test, there are to delete the abomination of imposed shadow mayors no effective boundaries to shape the extent of co-operation and the merger of roles; to remove provisions which and there is no clarity on what is to be covered. Our allow EU fines to be visited arbitrarily on local authorities; concern is that the duty is essentially voluntary. As in to amend its housing provisions to protect those becoming the other place, we will seek to amend the Bill to homeless and in need of secure affordable housing; to ensure that sustainable development is a core objective support the LGA in seeking to improve the changes to of the co-operation, with obligations specifically to housing finance; to put the presumption of sustainable cover climate, housing, biodiversity and transport and development and a robust definition in the Bill; to to base the co-operation on a spatial area rather than strengthen the duty to co-operate; and to challenge just on neighbouring authorities. some of the bureaucracy and lack of democratic I believe we would all support the concept of legitimacy around neighbourhood planning. There is community-based planning and the opportunity for much else: the Welsh dimension, the issues around communities to shape their neighbourhood and local nationally significant infrastructure projects, London environment, but this will have to be accessible to all. governance, the role of the MDC and the Standards It seems to us that the Government are still struggling Board, not to mention compulsory purchase and the with democratic legitimacy in cases where the compensation provisions. neighbourhood is not defined by a parish council. The In short, we want this Bill to be truly about localism processes involved are incredibly bureaucratic and raise where individuals and local communities are empowered, issues of capacity both for local authorities, which supported and resourced to shape and influence their have a duty to support neighbourhood planning, and neighbourhoods. To achieve this, we will need to change among the communities themselves. Neighbourhood the Bill. We look forward to working with the noble forums, even with the need for an increased membership, Baroness to that effect. need transparency and accountability and should have the involvement of elected councillors. The prospects for disputes seem high with potentially competing bids 10.25 pm for recognition, disputes over whether someone works Baroness Hanham: My Lords, when I woke up this in an area and the status of a neighbourhood plan morning, I thought to myself, “I am going to have when the local development framework has not been seven hours or so of this Bill today. How on earth are completed. we going to get through it?”. I have to say that I got We welcome the provisions for pre-application through it with enormous enjoyment. There have been consultation. We also welcome the Government’s change immensely good contributions. On just listening to of heart in continuing with the community infrastructure what has been said and the way in which it has been levy but will use the opportunity in Committee to said, people should take heart that legislation gets explore further the issues raised with us and, doubtless, properly scrutinised and is taken really seriously in other noble Lords concerning the interaction with this House. Across the piece, I should like to thank Section 106 money, its implications for affordable everyone. housing and the consequences of widening its use to I am going to recommend to the Chief Whip that the maintenance of infrastructure. Central diktat about we stick to seven minutes for every Second Reading how local authorities are to apply the levy is certainly speech. The amount that noble Lords have packed in outwith the spirit of localism. to their seven minutes is probably just as good as when The new planning system also has to be considered someone goes on for 15 minutes. I thank all noble in the context of the new homes bonus, which, it is Lords for the effort that they have put into their asserted, will be a powerful incentive for local authorities speeches and for the strength and depth of knowledge to pursue housing development. However, we do not that have come through. I genuinely say again that we consider this to be fully fit for purpose. We know it is are willing to talk and to listen. We were asked for going to be funded in large measure by top-slicing meetings on a number of subjects, which we will have revenue support money. It is payable in retrospect and if people want them. I ask noble Lords to get in touch on the basis of net additions to the housing stock, so and we will see where minds meet. Where they do not rather than being a plan for addressing national need, meet, I am afraid that they do not. We will be looking it will disadvantage regeneration projects and cause forward to that in Committee. 251 Localism Bill[7 JUNE 2011] Localism Bill 252

We have about 15 minutes—the noble Lord opposite provision has been inserted into the Bill. Clearly there had 15 minutes—which is not a lot of time to deal would be discussions and decisions to be made about with the major issues that have been raised. Nor is it where the responsibility lay and how much could be long enough to mention every Peer who has spoken. taken by the centre. It is a power to get local authorities Therefore, I am going to use a sort of self-denial and to watch EU legislation carefully so that they do not not mention anyone other than the two Front Benchers trip over it and end up with us all facing huge fines. I opposite, whom I thank for their kind opening remarks know that we shall come back to that one because and for their closing remarks, my noble friend Lord I can see it in the faces of noble Lords opposite. Tope who opened for the Liberals and the noble Lord, Let us look at the right to buy assets of community Lord Ouseley, if he is in his place, who opened for the value, which has clearly caused a lot of concern—indeed, Cross-Benchers. That is it, and now I am not going to I have had discussions about it today. The list of assets make any more comments about people. I am going will be constructed by the local authority, and people to go, I hope, straight to what we have been talking can ask for something which they consider to be an about. asset to be put on the list. The only time that that asset I sense that, while there is not complete agreement will come into public view is if the owner wants to sell on the measures in the Bill, there is enough recognition it. If they wish to sell it, time will have to be given to a of the need for localism and for a lot of the measures community group to put in an initial bid. It will have that we will be able to discuss sensibly at subsequent to be something that the community needs. We have stages. I realise that there are issues to which people talked about pubs and shops, and we heard about will want to come back. I know that many amendments shops that have been taken over and run by communities. will be moved in Committee but we now have a sense This gives a statutory back-up to what people have of where the thoughts of noble Lords are going on this. been doing in a voluntary way. It will provide a break Perhaps I may try to deal with some of the major between the sale being put forward and it taking place areas which have been raised. The general power of because a community group will be given the right to competence is meant to be just that. It goes wider than take some time for a bid. The time periods are under the well-being power that was there previously. It is consultation at the moment to work out how long there to try to ensure that local authorities can, without groups will be able to have to see whether they can put feeling too fettered and without having a statutory in a bid. Having done that, if a group achieves the framework around them, do some of the things that right price, which they might not necessarily do, they they want to do in terms of services and how they will then have the right to buy. I do not think this is provide them, as well as do what they need to do in quite as heavy a burden as some have made it out to other areas. be. However, some of these aspects are still out for consultation, and we shall come back with more detail In my opening remarks, I tried to deal with the for the House by Committee stage or perhaps just powers of the Secretary of State. By and large, under after. the safeguards being built in, the Secretary of State is really going to deal just with taking away barriers to On rural communities, I understand and accept the power of competence. If things are standing in the that there may be difficulties, particularly over vexatious way, he will be able to remove those legislatively without village green applications. We shall want to look at us having to come back to Parliament all the time. I that more closely to see whether there is a real impact. hope that we will be able to move on on that. There are also other aspects to do with rural assets, and we shall be having further discussions about those. On the governance issues, I understand that there are still concerns over the shadow mayors and those We are now introducing neighbourhood plans. They concerns were widely expressed. I know that we will are going to have to fit in with local development plans come back to that, as we will to the combination of and national policy frameworks and to conform to mayor and chief executive. I will wait with bated those. There are anxieties that things will go awry breath for that. While we want to look at the detail, it because local councils will have no control over them, is important that we put mayors into the context of but they will have that control because the local the overall package that we feel will be good both for development plan will already have laid out the parameters cities and local democracy, and how decisions will into which neighbourhood plans can fit. Again, this ultimately be put into the hands of local people, which brings in the community, perhaps more strongly, into of course is the basis of the Bill. The purpose of the saying what it would like within its local area. Someone Bill is to pass power down. This is not a Bill that is asked about housing, but it will not be able to frustrate going to constrain or be constrained by and large by housing development if the local authority has already the centre. It aims to pass as much as possible down to put in a plan that it wants something in that local authorities to deal with. neighbourhood. I hear the concerns about EU fines, but I think they With regard to sustainable development, the five may be a little bit over the top. The intention is only to principles are still accepted. A definition of sustainable deal with areas where this country is in danger of development is being produced as we speak. I hope being infracted—I think that is the word—but I am that we will have that for the next stage. Someone bound to say that that does not happen very often. In asked what a neighbourhood would be made up of. By fact, I do not think it has ever happened. However, and large, we expect them to be parish councils and/or there is a possibility, albeit remote, that a local authority wards in boroughs. The NPPF is being drafted and just might be the cause of an infraction or of infraction again I expect and hope that we will have that before proceedings being taken. It is for that reason that this we finish deliberations in Committee. 253 Localism Bill[LORDS] Localism Bill 254

[BARONESS HANHAM] eligible and in priority need. As I said, critically the There was a lot of discussion on housing tenure accommodation must be suitable, which covers a wide and reform. The proposals for flexible housing tenure gamut of issues, including affordability, size, condition, are just that. Concern was expressed that the flexibility accessibility and location. will start at a minimum of two years, but that is a I have covered almost all aspects raised—I hope minimum. As I said in my opening remarks, the noble Lords will forgive me if I have not—but the only expectation is that, by and large, it will be much longer other one that I want to touch on quickly is the than that. Social landlords need to understand that if concerns that were expressed about the standards someone does not need social housing for longer than regime. As was pointed out, many of the complaints a certain length of time—or for a short time—they do made to standards boards are extremely frivolous. not have to give them a long tenancy. If they think and They put councillors under the most enormous pressure. it is accepted that they need a lifetime tenancy, that is I know that because I have sat on a standards committee, available. If a social landlord decides to put all his and you know and see what comes before you. It will properties on to lifetime tenancies, that is acceptable. not be a disaster for this power to be taken away. Most They have the option of flexibility on what they can local authorities will and can have their own system do. and code of conduct. We would expect them to have On the issue of homelessness and whether it can be such a code of conduct; indeed, we have said that if discharged by having an offer of private accommodation, they make any changes, they will have to publish them homeless people are not always homeless for life. widely so that local people understand what they are Some of them have short-term crises and some of doing. The great panoply of bureaucracy associated them do not desire or need accommodation for a with standards can now be wound up. lifetime. They need short-term help along the way. I think that it is 10.41. I can probably wind up very One way in which they can have short-term help is to shortly—I apologise if I have stretched a little bit give them accommodation in the private sector. They beyond what I should have done. I thank all noble may have to go into the private sector if no other Lords for taking part. My noble friends Lord Attlee, accommodation is available, which is often the situation. Lord Taylor and I will look forward to the next stages It is a way of ensuring that they are housed somewhere. of the Bill and to taking it forward. Whether the standard of the accommodation is decent and whether they can afford it will all be taken into account at the time. The provisions are not dismantling Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee the homelessness safety net. We want to be really clear of the Whole House. on that. Local authorities will still have a duty to secure suitable accommodation for those who are House adjourned at 10.42 pm. GC 1 Arrangement of Business[7 JUNE 2011] Representation of the People Regs. 2011 GC 2

we believe that there are other tools that we may be Grand Committee able to use to tackle under-registration and to ensure that people have every opportunity to register. Data Tuesday, 7 June 2011. matching is one of them. 3.30 pm Data matching involves comparing the electoral register against other public databases in order to identify people who are currently missing from the Arrangement of Business register. They can then be contacted by electoral registration officials and offered the opportunity to Announcement register if they are eligible to vote. We envisage that The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Colwyn): through data matching we will also be able to take My Lords, before the Minister moves that the first steps to identify and remove any individuals who are statutory instrument be considered, I remind noble on the register but are not entitled to be. Lords that, in the case of each statutory instrument, We believe that data matching has the potential to the Motion before the Committee will be that the reduce the incidence of under-registration among specific Committee do consider the statutory instrument in groups in our society, but we do not yet know enough. question. I should perhaps make it clear that the We also believe that data matching has the potential to Motions to approve the statutory instruments will be tackle inaccuracy in our electoral registers, but, again, moved in the Chamber in the usual way. If there is a we do not yet know enough. We need to test the Division, the Committee will of course adjourn for effectiveness of data matching in this context and see 10 minutes. what kinds of data are most useful in improving the accuracy and completeness of the register. We therefore plan to trial data matching over the next few months Representation of the People (Electoral in a range of electoral registration areas in England, Registration Data Schemes) Wales and Scotland. The instruments before the Regulations 2011 Committee today will enable that to happen. The Considered in Grand Committee results of the trial will be evaluated with the assistance of the Electoral Commission and will help the Government to decide whether to seek to legislate to 3.31 pm extend data matching permanently across all local Moved By Lord McNally authorities. That the Grand Committee do report to the The order will enable specified data-holding public House that it has considered the Representation of authorities, including the Department for Work and the People (Electoral Registration Data Schemes) Pensions, HM Revenue and Customs and the Department Regulations 2011. for Education, to provide electoral registration officers with the data necessary for their planned data-matching Relevant document: 20th Report from the Joint schemes. The 22 local authorities planning to take Committee on Statutory Instruments. part in the trial are listed in the schedule to the order and we are grateful to them and to the data-holding The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord authorities that will be participating for the work that McNally): My Lords, the order and regulations will they are doing. together provide the legal basis for the electoral registration Members of the Committee may have noticed that data-matching trial that my honourable friend the there are in fact 23 local authorities in the schedule. Minister for Political and Constitutional Reform This is because Cardiff has unfortunately had to withdraw announced in another place on 15 September 2010. since the order was laid. I am, however, very happy to These instruments will enable the sharing and matching confirm that Peterborough, which withdrew prior to of specified data between local authority electoral the order being debated in another place, has since registration officers and public authorities that also been able to resolve its problems and will after all be hold certain kinds of specified data. taking part. Cardiff’s withdrawal does not affect the It might assist the Committee if, before going into validity of the order, because being included in the greater depth about what the instruments will do, I schedule does not compel an area to take part. Nor were to supply some context and background to the will it affect the validity of the eventual results of the order and regulations. The view that there is a need for pilot schemes. Even if another one or two of the pilot change in our arrangements for electoral registration schemes were to run into unforeseen practical difficulties is, I know, widely shared. It is important that the of the kind recently encountered by Peterborough and register is as accurate and as complete as possible. We Cardiff, there will still be enough of them for the need to make sure that the system is not vulnerable to results to be useful. fraud, while ensuring at the same time that people are The order stipulates that before any data can be not prevented from registering to vote because the transferred a written agreement must be in place between system is too difficult to use or because they are not the electoral registration officer and the data-holding aware of their rights. authority, setting out the requirements as to the processing, In 2014, the Government plan to introduce individual transfer, storage, destruction and security of the data electoral registration in place of the outdated system concerned. It also sets 1 March 2012 as the date by of household registration. Alongside that, however, which each of the schemes must have been evaluated. GC 3 Representation of the People Regs. 2011[LORDS] Representation of the People Regs. 2011 GC 4

[LORD MCNALLY] important that there is clarity about the design of the For the information of the Committee, let me say data-matching schemes, so that the impact and any that 1 March 2012—not the end of December 2011, as follow-up activity can be demonstrated beyond what mentioned in the draft agreement attached to the the annual canvass activity would normally achieve. Explanatory Memorandum—will now be the date by Can the noble Lord give any further information on which all data created for the purposes of the pilot the agreement to process the data? It is particularly schemes must be destroyed, except of course where important that personal data are handled carefully data have been added to the electoral register in the and are protected. The commission has specifically mean time. Since that version of the draft agreement recommended that the approach to the delivery of was prepared, the Electoral Commission has told us each pilot area should also form part of any written that it would assist its evaluation of the pilot schemes agreement, so that the commission can fully evaluate if the data were still to be available, should the commission each scheme. need to see it. We agree with the commission, so the Finally, the noble Lord will be aware that the final version of the agreement will reflect this change commission is required to produce an evaluation report of date. on the operation of the scheme by 1 March 2012. To The regulations complement the order by enabling achieve this, it will be important that EROs are able to registration officers to supply a copy of their full provide the commission at agreed intervals during the register, or an extract from it, to another person for it schemes’ operation with the information needed. Clarity to be compared with the information that is to be about the design and delivery of each scheme will provided under a data-matching scheme. The regulations ensure that the commission is able to undertake its also provide that a person to whom the copy of the statutory evaluation effectively and that the results can register is passed may not do anything with it for any inform future policy development on electoral registration. other purpose or without the registration officer’s I am of course happy for the noble Lord to write to me consent. This means that registration officers will not to clarify a number of these points. be given data relating to everyone in their area. They will receive only targeted information about particular individuals, thus ensuring that unnecessary personal Lord Tyler: My Lords, I am glad to follow the noble data are not transferred to registration officers and Lord, Lord Kennedy, because I know that he shares that the data that they receive are provided to them for the commitment that we have on all sides of the House a reason. to make the electoral register as comprehensive and Data-matching schemes may lead to greater accuracy accurate as we can. and improved levels of registration in some electoral In the debates earlier this year on the Parliamentary registration areas and among some groups within the Voting System and Constituencies Bill, there was a next few months. If so, the schemes may be the key to great deal of discussion about under-registration. That greater accuracy and improved levels of registration was not the first time that the issue was raised. The on a much larger scale within the next few years. noble Lord, Lord Wills, gave a great deal of attention However, we need to know for certain and we need to to this in the previous Government. I recall that on a be able to produce the evidence. That is why it is so number of occasions in Grand Committee on the important to put these trials in hand. The order and Political Parties and Elections Bill we had considerable regulations will enable us to do that and I commend discussions about the right momentum and the right them to the Committee. progress needed to improve the level of registration. On a number of occasions, previous Administrations—like the present Government—have looked at ways in which Lord Kennedy of Southwark: My Lords, I declare data matching could assist this purpose. that I am an electoral commissioner, having joined the It is important to note that there was an improvement commission on 1 October last year. I fully support the during the calendar year 2010; in the last few days thrust of the commission’s views on these important there have been some interesting improvements, too, statutory instruments. which I notice that colleagues on the other side of the I am sure that all noble Lords want completeness House have also seen. The context of that was a very and accuracy of electoral registers. We want confidence exciting general election at which, for the first time in in our democracy and our electoral system. We want some people’s political memory, it looked as though confidence that you will be able to vote if you want to the outcome was not certain. In those circumstances, and if you are eligible. We want confidence in those there was an increase, particularly—and this is who have been elected to serve at all levels of government. encouraging—among the younger age group, which It is important that clear and reliable evidence on notoriously in the recent past has not registered. We data matching is produced and that the evidence is should take encouragement from the fact that, if we robustly assessed. It is particularly important that this can make politics more interesting and outcomes more assessment is done carefully and represents fully what indeterminate, we can increase registration. It is not can be achieved, not least because data matching is only a mechanical operation but a political one to get envisaged as the primary method of ensuring the as many of our fellow citizens engaged as possible. continued completeness of individual registration in The integrity of the register is a question of making 2014-15. I should welcome a response from the noble sure that those who should be on are on and that those Lord, Lord McNally, on that specific point and on the who should not be on, or are there in duplicate, are commission’s concern that the timing of the schemes not on. Therefore, accuracy and integrity are the same will coincide with the annual canvass of electors. It is thing. GC 5 Representation of the People Regs. 2011[7 JUNE 2011] Representation of the People Regs. 2011 GC 6

The PPE Act, as the Bill became, set fair and square analysis by the department that areas with a good registration objectives. They are, cross-section of experience were chosen as being “to secure, so far as reasonably practicable—(a) that persons who particularly valuable at this pilot stage? Indeed, have are entitled to be registered in a register are registered in it, the authorities that have been selected been hand-picked (b) that persons who are not entitled to be registered in a register by Whitehall or have they been volunteered by town are not registered in it, and (c) that none of the information halls? In that connection, I was interested to hear what relating to a registered person that appears in a register or other my noble friend said just now about Peterborough record kept by the officer is false”. coming in and Cambridge going out. I hope that I Obviously, the instruments that are before the Committee have that right. Given that information, will there be a today seek to build on that responsibility, which lies further tranche at some stage? If so, when, or will it not only on the Government but on all of us. I happen when there is a full assessment by the Electoral appreciate the clarity with which my noble friend Commission? introduced the instruments, which I welcome. Most important on these general issues, information Those objectives are clearly uncontroversial and it shared is information risked. The more places to which is a matter of some puzzlement to our fellow citizens information is forwarded, the more people can put it that sometimes the electoral register seems to be totally on a USB key or laptop and then leave it on a train, in unrelated to the other information that has been gathered a taxi or at a station. That has happened too often in on behalf of local or central government. They find it recent years for us not to take account of that risk. I peculiar; they think that we are all the same thing. know that the public are rightly concerned about these They think that Parliament and the Government are breaches, as is, it appears from its briefing, the Electoral the same thing, let alone local authorities and other Commission. parts of the state system. They think that we are all part of the same bureaucracy. For example, those who I want to refer quickly to the Electoral Commission, are accused of filing a housing benefit form inaccurately as did the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy. I am obviously will often cite the presence of all members of their not a commissioner but I have been an informal household on the electoral register as a necessary and adviser to the commission in a cross-party group in understandable defence. Who can blame them? They the past and I should declare that. Obviously it is not a think that that is an official document and therefore pecuniary interest but it simply ensures that I try to can be quoted as such. keep an eye on what the commission has said. I echo Those kinds of situations raise the question of what the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said about the whether the flow of information from government rather tight timing that the commission has identified. departments into councils will be a two-way process. On the one hand, the commission is clearly concerned Will it work in both directions? The Secretary of State that the scheme should coincide with the annual canvass. for Work and Pensions—this is in the order—might That is entirely sensible and proper, but there is a need give information on the DWP’s database to the electoral to move at some speed to do it this year. However, registration officer in Blackpool, but will the DWP more substantially, making sure that the written agreement then use the comparison data to identify potential between the local authorities and the Cabinet Office is fraud on its own books? I do not expect my noble fully worked out in a speedy and well thought-through friend to answer on behalf of the other department process so that the commission and the local authorities this afternoon, but I think that this is a subject where are all well briefed well in advance of the process our fellow citizens would genuinely like to know whether seems absolutely critical if the evaluation programme there is an answer. is to be met on time. Going for 1 March 2012 is pretty tight timing. I recognise that the clarity with which my 3.45 pm noble friend has presented the order this afternoon is encouraging, but there are so many other stages before Such an exercise is obviously a double-edged sword. we get to that that I hope that we can be reassured that For some, it is joined-up government; for others, it is the commission will get the full clarity that it requests the surveillance state. Getting the balance right is in its briefing so that it, too, can make a speedy something that we in this House and indeed the other assessment of what is involved. place must constantly take into account. No doubt Members of the Committee will take their own view The safeguards that the Minister is putting in place as to how the balance is being addressed with this to ensure not just that the timing problems are addressed issue, but it would be good to know the facts about effectively but also that the other questions about how information will be shared on a two-way basis. sensitive data being properly treated, properly stored The other issue that puzzles me is how exactly the and properly destroyed when not required for further local authorities concerned were chosen. My noble analysis are extremely important. Those safeguards friend referred to the fact that there has been one in will have to be secured not just by the government and one out and I should be very interested to know departments concerned but by the local authorities. I just how this process has been undertaken. Why, for hope that my noble friend will be able to reassure us all example, were Southwark and Newham chosen but that that will be very much the case. not Lambeth and Lewisham? Why are Colchester and Finally, Article 4(2) specifies that agreements between Camden going to be privy to the Student Loans central and local government must make provision Company database while the Forest of Dean and for the consequences of the failure to comply with Forest Heath are not? Have councils with a particular requirements on transfer, storage, destruction and security concern about the level of registration come forward of data. That will be incredibly important in assuring to ask for data? Was it on their initiative or on some the public that we are not taking unnecessary risks GC 7 Representation of the People Regs. 2011[LORDS] Representation of the People Regs. 2011 GC 8

[LORD TYLER] because the Minister made such a compelling case for with important and confidential information. What these statutory instruments that there is little to add. I consequences does the Minister have in mind for future agree with almost everything that I heard him say. agreements made under this order? However, I have a few questions. Of course, if he is unable to answer them directly today, I should be Lord Jones: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, grateful if he would write to me in due course. Lord Tyler, and my noble friend on the Electoral I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, that it is Commission. I also thank the Minister for the clarity crucial with this sort of legislation to strike the balance of his introduction. It is clear how, over the years, the correctly between the efficient discharge of achieving register has ceased to be the reference source—the desirable public objectives and protecting the liberty local bible—that it once was. That may be the reason of the individual. As far as I can see, the Government, for these regulations and the order. I have also noticed in this careful approach, have struck that balance well. how, in parallel, turnout at elections has plummeted The House and Parliament owe the Minister and his and how the ugly head of fraud has recently been so colleagues a debt of gratitude on the way in which frequently in the news. Therefore, perhaps necessarily, they have approached the matter. these proposals must be and are bureaucratic. We have commissioners, commissions, the Cabinet Office, These statutory instruments can play an important Secretaries of State, the Lord President and local part, as we have heard, in tackling the continuing and authorities—all evidence of complications. serious problem of under-registration. Until now, there has been general agreement that the figure of between The ballot is a hard-won right. It is a secret ballot 3 million and 3.5 million, based on work by the and it remains, I hope, a clean and fool-proof ballot. Electoral Commission some years ago, represents the That is the bedrock of British liberty—the liberty of a number of people who are eligible to vote but cannot free Parliament and of our perception of liberty, equality do so because they are not on the register. First, is the and justice. In that sense, what is before us is very Minister aware of the report in the Guardian today important. It was right and proper that the Minister that is based on the work carried out by Chris Ruane declared himself clearly in introducing the legislation MP and suggests that the figure may not be between and no doubt will do so in replying. We are all equal in 3 million and 3.5 million but closer to 6 million? Will the ballot and therefore I see these measures as an he commission his officials to contact Mr Ruane to enhancement. They have to be good. I assume that investigate the validity of that figure and report back every effort is being made by the coalition Government to Parliament on the findings? to protect the integrity of the ballot box. That signal needs to be sent out to the nation and to the whole Secondly, the previous Government, as I am sure electorate and I trust this Minister to do that. I appreciate the Minister is aware, felt that the power in the Political the reference made by the deputy commissioner and Parties and Elections Act to make such statutory director of data protection to inherent risks in security. instruments was necessary but was not sufficient. Had David Smith makes a veiled promise of what seems to we been re-elected, we would certainly have brought me a retribution. I do not cavil with his discretion forward further measures to improve registration rates. there. I should therefore be grateful if the Minister could tell What of Wales in terms of a national ballot? The us what measures this Government have considered to city of Cardiff and the county is a good place to go, as improve the electoral register over and above those the schedule presages, but can the Minister indicate brought in or presaged by the previous Government. whether there were consultations and other bids? We Which of those measures that this Government have have but one pilot in Wales. Why not in Northern so considered are they planning to bring forward and Ireland? It may be that there is a simple answer that when will they do so? If the Minister is unable to the Minister will give to your Lordships. answer now, I should be grateful if he could write I have a question that arises from a recent contretemps. to me. Are electoral registration officers subject to ministerial Will the Minister also explain why it has taken direction? I know that the Minister does not answer more than a year to bring forward these statutory for Wales, but I put the question generally. I recently instruments? I concede straightaway that, as I am sure noticed that Wales Assembly Government Ministers he will immediately point out, the PPE Act received were unable—I use the word advisedly—to persuade Royal Assent in July 2009 and that the statutory an electoral registration officer in the Wales Assembly instruments that were necessary suffered in what is election to do as they wished. I refer to the day and the always the inevitable traffic jam of statutory instruments time of a count. The Minister may say to me that that at the end of a Parliament. The Minister does not need is way out, but I put the question to him also in a to dwell on that point in his reply. However, this general sense across Britain—or perhaps it applies Government do not have that excuse. Given that when only to England. Can he give an answer now? If he they came to power the cupboard was almost inevitably cannot, will he please give me a detailed answer by pretty well bare of such a logjam of statutory instruments, letter? I wish the Minister well in attempting, on this and given the importance that everyone who has spoken important matter, to make this a better place. attaches to improving the electoral register, especially in the context of all the other constitutional reforms Lord Wills: My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow my that this Government are bringing forward—the noble noble friend and all noble Lords who have made Lord, Lord Tyler, referred to our extensive debate on important contributions to an important debate. I do these matters in which the question of electoral registration not intend to delay the proceedings for long, not least has come up time and again on all sides of the House— GC 9 Representation of the People Regs. 2011[7 JUNE 2011] Representation of the People Regs. 2011 GC 10 please can the Minister tell us why it has taken quite so all the expert analysis that that time was needed to long to bring forward these statutory instruments? I achieve a comprehensive and accurate register. That is am quite sure that I will not be alone in hoping for the reason for the timeframe. There is no good reason some sort of explanation. for bringing this forward in the way that the Government I note that these statutory instruments have been propose—none. coupled elsewhere with the Government’s intention to We will return to these issues in due course, but I rush forward with the introduction of individual am sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, who is also a registration. I should like to put on record and conclude fair man, did not in his remarks pay credit to the with my strong objections to this attempt to justify the Electoral Commission for the work that it did in unjustifiable. The previous Government put in place improving registration rates in the run-up to the election. measures for the implementation of individual registration. He may well be right that it was an interesting general That is undoubtedly desirable; there is now agreement, election and that that motivated more people to register certainly among everyone who has spoken, about that. and, in some cases, even to vote. However, it was also However, the previous Government tied individual the case that the Electoral Commission did first-rate registration to the achievement as far as reasonably work in targeting particularly hard-to-reach groups— practicable—I am again grateful to the noble Lord, groups that are traditionally under-registered—and Lord Tyler, for quoting the exact words—of a achieved considerable success. This will give us all comprehensive and accurate register. This is crucial. hope and the commission deserves credit for that. All the analyses agree—I do not think that there is any The noble Lord, Lord Tyler, should have given the serious disagreement about this—that the introduction previous Government some credit for the measures of individual registration runs a serious risk of damaging that they put in place and implemented to drive up rates of registration. Desirable as it is, that is a perverse rates of registration. The encouraging figures that we consequence of bringing it in. have seen recently owe at least something to the work To rush forward before the register is complete, that we did in government. I hope that he is nodding in comprehensive and accurate, as the Government are agreement with this. I am happy to give way to him so proposing, risks rendering an already flawed system that he can put it on the record. deeply more flawed. That would be bad enough, but such damage would have a partisan effect. Although Lord Tyler: I give credit to all who can improve the Minister may try to deny this, most analysts agree registration, but the noble Lord is again undermining that the voters most likely to fall off the register in his own case. If registration has improved over the these circumstances would be more disposed to vote past 12 or 24 months, the circumstances that he described Labour. of moving towards individual registration could also be accelerated. 4pm Lord Tyler: My Lords— Lord Wills: I am delighted that the noble Lord has made that point. We set up a process under which there would be an independent assessment of whether Lord Wills: I thought that someone would challenge the register was comprehensive and accurate—not a me on this and I am delighted to give way to the noble guess by Ministers or politicians but an accurate Lord, Lord Tyler. independent assessment. As the noble Lord is aware, under the legislation the Electoral Commission has to Lord Tyler: I do not wish to challenge that. I want report annually to Parliament on progress. Let us see to draw the noble Lord’s attention to the fact—he is a what it says and not rush ahead before we have received very fair man—that what he has just said about individual such assessments, which are unlikely to show that. I do registration and what he said previously about the fact not say that they will not show it and, if they do, that his Administration failed to bring forward these obviously this can be revisited. We put in the requirement instruments after the PPE Act in 2009 are in direct for those annual reports to Parliament so that it could contradiction. If it is so vital to improve data sharing make that judgment on the basis of independent evidence so that the register can be more effective and more and not on the basis of a ministerial whim. When the accurate and so that its integrity can be improved to noble Lord’s party was in opposition, it was very enable us to move further and faster on individual much against that kind of executive whim. I hope that registration, why did his Administration not bring we will see that antagonism to arbitrary action by the forward these instruments immediately after the PPE Act? state exemplified in its opposition to this legislation.

Lord Wills: I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Lord Tyler: I am sorry, but we did not support the Tyler. He is fully aware that we are talking about a timescale that the noble Lord is now describing. In matter of months. We considered all the advice that this very Room in Committee, my noble friend Lord we received and we consulted widely. As the noble Rennard and I argued that we surely could be in a Lord has raised this point, it is worth reminding the position to accelerate the process in time for an expected Committee that, under the previous Government, the election at some point in 2014-15. Front Benches of both the party of the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, including the Minister, and the Conservative Lord Wills: With all due respect to the noble Lord, Party agreed that the timeframe that was necessary to we have to make that judgment on the basis of evidence, bring in individual registration could not be rushed. but the evidence is not there at the moment. I tried Therefore, we set a date of 2015. Everyone agreed with hard in government to put in further measures to GC 11 Representation of the People Regs. 2011[LORDS] Representation of the People Regs. 2011 GC 12

[LORD WILLS] admit that they were not sufficient. I accept that and improve registration, but for various reasons I was not the noble Lord is right to criticise us for it. However, able to get them all through. I want to know what this you cannot try to achieve one desirable good at the Government are doing to bring in new measures over risk of creating what I would see as a greater ill, which and above what we brought in. That was my first is damaging a flawed register even more than it is question to the Minister. I have not seen any evidence already damaged. that this Government are doing any more than the It was not an easy process, but we found a way to previous Government did, although I am happy to be do that. It took a huge amount of effort and negotiation proved wrong. The improvement of registration rates with all sides, including the Electoral Commission, is vital for the health of our democracy. which had to be satisfied that it was proper. We found The point that I was making, which the noble Lord a balance by coupling the two processes. We coupled overlooked, was that Parliament will have an opportunity the improvement of the register so that it became annually to assess progress towards a comprehensive comprehensive and accurate with individual registration. and accurate register. My concern is not about the That, we hoped, would put pressure on everyone to speed of individual registration but that it should drive up registration rates and move within a reasonable happen only when the register is comprehensive and timeframe—and 2015 really is a reasonable timeframe; accurate. The noble Lord seems to be saying that it this is not long-grass territory. Therefore, we moved should just be done whenever Ministers feel like towards individual registration within a reasonable it. That is the point of disagreement between us. If timeframe and, at the same time, tried to ensure that a comprehensive and accurate register, assessed the register was not damaged, or, to be precise, damaged independently by the Electoral Commission, can be more than it was already. achieved earlier than 2015, that is fine, but all the I hope that the noble Lord will accept that that is a evidence is that it will not be. If it can be done, then I reasonable point of view. We have to be careful with agree with the noble Lord that we can bring in individual this. I know that the Minister has not tried to do so, registration sooner, but to rush ahead before the register but it is wrong to claim—I am hearing this among the is comprehensive and accurate will be very damaging. background noises—that these desirable and worthwhile It will be damaging to the register and to the health of measures that he has brought before us today, for our democracy, because it is so transparently partisan which we are all grateful, on their own justify the to so many of us. partisan rush to individual registration. For all their We do not see this as a benign oversight by the merits, they do not. Government; we see it as another example of a Government trying to fix the system in their own electoral interest. I know that many people will just Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I am grateful shrug their shoulders and say, “Well, that’s what politicians to the Minister for his clear explanation of the instruments always do. What do you expect?”, but we and this and I look forward to our future debates on the Government really should not behave like that. That is speeding up of the implementation of individual electoral why this matter is so important. It may sound like a registration by July 2014. Obviously, this is a hugely technical issue to many people out there but it is not; it important issue and there is much more to be debated—I is about the integrity of the whole system. I hope that associate myself with everything that my noble friend when we get to debate these measures we will hear the said. noble Lord, Lord Tyler, engage with these issues with I believe that it is a citizen’s duty to vote and I his customary rigour, fairness and belief in the integrity welcome all efforts to maximise the number of people of the system. He may come to the point where he is who are registered to vote. It is deeply depressing that persuaded to vote against his Government on this there are 3.5 million people and perhaps closer to measure because, in my view, that is what he should do. 6 million people—I, too, read the article in today’s Guardian—who are eligible to vote but who do not Lord Tyler: The noble Lord is eloquent, but perhaps because they are not registered. This disempowers the I may ask him to confirm one thing before he completely individual and is damaging to democracy. The fact rewrites the history of the previous Administration. that a huge proportion of those unregistered are probably Am I right in thinking that the Electoral Commission young and on lower incomes means that those who are recommended a staged move towards individual perhaps most in need of a voice do not have one. registration in 2003? Why did it take so long for him Therefore, I welcome all measures to improve voter and his colleagues to get round to doing anything registration. about it if it is as important as he says that it is? Effective mechanisms must be established to ensure that the maximum number of people are on the register, Lord Wills: I agree. This was a particularly intractable so I welcome the instruments that are before us today. problem, which Governments have looked at and tried I welcome the pilot data-matching schemes, especially to solve over a very long period. We were not in power the one in the Forest of Dean, which I shall watch with for the whole of the past 50 years. Other Governments special interest. However, the pilots will be useful only were in power and they, too, did nothing about moving if there is proper evaluation. towards individual registration. We tried to move towards Like other noble Lords, I am somewhat concerned it. The problem was that, every time we looked at about the speed of this. Article 5 of the order specifies achieving the desirable good of individual registration, the date by which the Electoral Commission must we saw the problems with the register. We took necessary produce a report on the operation of each scheme as and important steps to improve the register, but I 1 March 2012. The Electoral Commission tells us that GC 13 Representation of the People Regs. 2011[7 JUNE 2011] Representation of the People Regs. 2011 GC 14 its agreement to this date is on the basis that the pilot I am grateful for the contribution of the noble schemes will have been concluded by December 2011— Lord, Lord Kennedy. I am pleased to see him on the I am not sure whether the noble Lord suggested that Electoral Commission. When it was first established, that had been put back—and that EROs will be able to the noble Baroness, Lady Gould, I and others who provide it with information throughout that process. had worked for political parties on all Benches argued December is a mere five and a half months away and strongly that in order to make it effective the Electoral I hope that many of those employees will get some Commission should contain people with direct experience summer holidays, so will the Minister confirm whether of party-political organisation. His service on the he thinks that this timescale is practical? If the time commission, given his experience, is a plus, the change does not prove to be adequate, will it be extended? I being carried through by the previous Government. should also be grateful for some further information The exercise of the pilot and the annual register will about the evaluation of the projects and for his assurance be kept separate, so that it will be possible to make a that he will report back to Parliament on the process. I comparison. It is our aim that electoral registration will be interested to hear the answers to the questions officers should provide information at intervals, so posed by the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, about the way in that pilots, and the format and frequency of the reports which these specific projects were chosen. to the Cabinet Office and the Electoral Commission, I say as an aside that last week I had a meeting with will be agreed. There will therefore be regular reports. one of the deputy election commissioners in India, a We have asked each pilot to pay particular attention to vast country where elections are organised for 750 million that point. Since development work began, we have participants. I was interested to learn and see that the emphasised the importance of the pilots doing everything electoral registers there carry photographs of each that they can to distinguish the impact of data matching person who is eligible to vote. I am not proposing that and related follow-up activities from the usual impact we should adopt that practice but, like my noble friend of the annual canvass. I doubt whether that will be Lord Wills, I wonder what other ways the Government perfect, but it will certainly be attempted. are exploring of increasing voter registration. Have The Cabinet Office and the electoral administrators they considered introducing a system whereby everybody already have well developed proposals to evaluate the is registered as of right and then opts out of the impact of the pilots and we will continue to work register should they wish to, so that the system is an together on them as they develop. With the assistance opt-out one rather than an opt-in one? of the Electoral Commission, we will continue to offer I welcome the fact that no one who is on the register help and guidance on appropriate approaches that we will be removed if they have not signed as an individual consider will be most likely to produce useful evidence. elector for the 2015 register, but I note that that will Therefore, I hope that we are keeping in close contact not be the case after the next general election. That with the Electoral Commission and the electoral could be a matter of concern if it leads to a greatly registration officers. reduced number of people on the register and therefore weakens our democratic system, which I think is best It is always difficult to respond to complaints about nurtured by participation. I look forward to hearing either speed or slowness, both of which the noble the responses from the Minister and to our future Lord, Lord Wills, managed to make in a speech that debates on this issue. he said was intended to be supportive. We will do our best to make these things work effectively and, as I 4.15 pm said, most of the participating organisations will do likewise. Lord McNally: My Lords, in discussions on electoral registration, nothing causes the heart to sink so much The noble Lord, Lord Tyler, asked how the as the sight in the Room of the previous Minister, a participating authorities were selected. All local authorities member of the Electoral Commission and the guru across England and Wales were invited to apply to in my own party on these matters. That will in part take part in the data-matching pilots. There will be no explain why, in making this response, I now have data-matching pilots in Northern Ireland, which already enough notes to take us safely to six o’clock. I hope has individual registration. The individual electoral that the officials will take careful note if I manage to registration system was introduced in Northern Ireland miss a number of the questions that were asked; I will under the provisions of the Electoral Fraud (Northern ensure that I follow them up in writing. Ireland) Act 2002. The Act replaced household registration Perhaps the innocent observer will have missed the with individual registration, whereby each eligible elector fact that all contributions welcomed these statutory is required to complete their own electoral registration instruments. I am extremely grateful for the agreement. form. I share with the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, a lifelong The noble Lord, Lord Tyler, and others made a belief that using your vote as a citizen is one of your point with which I sympathise. I am, as I think was the most important duties and responsibilities. It is perhaps noble Lord, Lord Wills, the Minister responsible for a sad fact that I was brought up in a household in a data protection and, when these proposals first landed constituency that had a 15,000 Conservative majority, on my desk from the Cabinet Office, alarm bells rang. yet at every election my mother and father would go I do not feel comfortable about government departments out resolutely to vote Labour. Indeed, in those days sharing data in a way that could have an impact on when having a car to deliver you to the polling station civil liberties unless provisions are put in place and I was something of a luxury, my mother used to take am happy to assure the Committee that we have taken special pride in going there in a Conservative car to the necessary steps to make sure that those protections vote Labour. are in place. We will follow the Government’s Information GC 15 Representation of the People Regs. 2011[LORDS] Representation of the People Regs. 2011 GC 16

[LORD MCNALLY] register. I have always been slightly suspicious of these Assurance Standard 6 produced by the Communications- figures and doubt whether at any time in human Electronics Security Group, the Government’s central history there has been a 100 per cent completed electoral information assurance experts. This standard governs register. Indeed, I am old enough to remember when the use, storage, transfer and destruction of data. We the register used to be updated twice a year and have consulted over our specific plans with the CESG Harold Wilson used carefully to calculate the dates of and those responsible in the Cabinet Office for information elections so that the new register could be used, as the security, as well as participating departments. Under old ones became quickly out of date. Trying to put an Article 4 of the statutory instrument, all participants, electoral register together— including electoral registration officers, must sign agreements to comply with the standards. The Cabinet Office is Lord Wills: I am grateful to the Minister for giving also providing information assurance training. way. As he seemed to miss my comment, I want to The noble Lord, Lord Tyler, asked whether there stress that I am very supportive of him and these will be a two-way flow of information. The answer is measures. However, is he aware that for all practical no. Departments will not receive information. This purposes, large parts of the country achieve 100 per will be a one-way process. However, as I said, I think cent registration and that their registers are comprehensive that when government departments, for the most and accurate? It is not therefore some distant objective honourable and meritorious reasons, start sharing that we will never achieve, because some parts of the information, there is a need for those concerned with country are already achieving it. I accept that the data protection to be on their guard. I see in his place Government are trying to reach that objective and I my noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford. I usually do not think that there is anything wilful about this. refer to him by saying, “An old Liberal once told me”, However, does the Minister accept that the task is to but I think that in this case I can identify him—to be get all parts of the country up to that standard? distinguished, of course, from the young Liberals. My noble friend once memorably said to me that there 4.30 pm should be a limit on how much information the state holds on an individual in a free society. I think that Lord McNally: Yes. However, I refer to one of the that is true and I constantly worry about the capacity points that my noble friend Lord Tyler made in the of new technologies to cross-reference information in most enjoyable exchange that he had with the noble a way that could undermine civil liberties. In this case, Lord, Lord Wills. The trouble with my noble friend I can say that we are taking the necessary steps to Lord Tyler is that not only does he know the facts but ensure that this information is used specifically, in a he knows the dates as well; he is a difficult man to one-way direction and with the necessary protections grapple with. He made the point that voter registration in place. is not only a mechanical issue but a political one. We The noble Lord, Lord Jones, properly reminded us all have to get out and knock on doors and convince that, as in Northern Ireland, much of the exercise was people. I freely accept that in some areas it is more to ensure that the system was fraud-free, secret and difficult to obtain registration. clean, and that the integrity of the ballot box was I make no apologies for pushing ahead with individual protected. I hope that successive Governments will registration because, although there may be problems make clear their intention in that respect. Indeed, initially in the transition—and we are trying to put people have recently been sent to prison for electoral in place measures that will mitigate some of the fraud, and rightly so. Anyone contemplating electoral problems—we are convinced that individual registration fraud should be well aware that we would use all is a way to both avoid fraud and encourage individual possible means to ensure that they were prosecuted for participation in our democratic process. it. Cardiff pulled out too late for us to make changes to the order and to find another Welsh example. As a Lord Jones: I am grateful that the Minister is grappling. strong supporter of devolution, I am always grateful First, can a Minister direct the electoral registration that the specific matters concerning the responsibilities officer? Secondly, was he confirming that the city of of Welsh Ministers are nothing to do with me. Cardiff has pulled out of the pilot? If he was, I should Not surprisingly, today’s Guardian article was drawn tell him that I did not know and that I have relied on to my attention. It is not possible to indicate with the documents that he presented to your Lordships precision the registration rate in the UK because the saying that it was part of the scheme. He may wish to size of the eligible population is not known, but the answer those two questions. Electoral Commission will soon be conducting research into electoral registration levels in a project funded by Lord McNally: I shall write to the noble Lord on the Cabinet Office. The study will check a statistically his first question. As I understand it, Cardiff withdrew significant sample of electoral registers at local authority but, again, I shall write to clarify the situation. level against the people actually living at these addresses. The work will involve some 5,000 interviews in some 50 local authority areas across Britain. Lord Jones: The Minister will concede that we I have noticed in debating previous Bills that a kind needed to be told in proceedings that the schedule was of victim culture has been growing up in the Labour inaccurate. Party that somehow the Government are wickedly keeping 3.5 million—“implied Labour”—voters off Lord McNally: I will check, but I think that I said the register. No one is being kept off the electoral that in my opening remarks. GC 17 Representation of the People Regs. 2011[7 JUNE 2011] Export Control Order 2011 GC 18

Lord Jones: I am grateful to the Minister. licence from my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. To ensure consistency, this new order revokes the Export Control Lord McNally: This has been a useful and question- (Amendment) (No.3) Order 2010, which controlled filled debate, although we will have to wait for Hansard the export of sodium thiopental to the US and which to find out whether it has been fact-filled. It is important was approved by this Committee on 20 December that we have respect for the electoral register and for 2010. I would like to start by reiterating some of the our democratic process. On balance, I have always background to the 2010 order, as this provides the key been in favour of the stubby pencil inside a voting context for the extension of export controls to these booth as a sign of the citizen’s commitment to making other drugs. democracy work. These days, if you ever go checking numbers outside a polling station, it is sad to see On 28 October 2010, Leigh Day & Co, the solicitors elderly people struggling to make it to exercise that acting on behalf of a prisoner on death row in Tennessee, right and young people walking past. It is part of our wrote to my right honourable friend the Secretary of task as politicians to reverse that process. We have to State requesting that he place controls on the export make democracy work and I hope that these instruments to the United States of the drug sodium thiopental. will make some contribution towards that. I sincerely Sodium thiopental—also known as thiopental sodium, thank all those who have contributed to a very well as the noble Lord, Lord Young, noted previously—is informed debate. an anaesthetic which is widely used in medicine throughout the world, but it is also used by some states in the US Motion agreed. to anaesthetise prisoners prior to execution. There has been a shortage of this drug in the US for some months, which has led at least some states to seek Electoral Registration Data Schemes supplies of sodium thiopental elsewhere. Order 2011 While affirming the Government’s opposition to Considered in Grand Committee the death penalty, my right honourable friend declined to impose export controls on the drug immediately. His primary concern was that he should not take 4.33 pm action which might cause delays in the export of a Moved By Lord McNally medicine which could be needed by patients. Leigh Day & Co was granted permission by the High Court That the Grand Committee do report to the to judicially review his decision and the first hearing of House that it has considered the Electoral Registration the case took place on 17 November 2010. The court Data Schemes Order 2011. adjourned the claimants’ public law challenge, which was due to be heard on 29 November. In the course of Relevant document: 20th Report from the Joint the legal proceedings, it emerged that, under applicable Committee on Statutory Instruments. federal law, it was not currently lawful to import sodium thiopental into the United States for medical Motion agreed. purposes. Moreover, it was established that at present sodium thiopental is virtually unused for legitimate medical purposes in the US. Export Control (Amendment) (No. 3) Order 2011 On 29 November, my right honourable friend decided that these new developments significantly strengthened Considered in Grand Committee the arguments in favour of a control order. Such an order would serve to underline the UK’s moral opposition 4.35 pm to the death penalty without impacting on legitimate trade and without adversely affecting the health of Moved By Baroness Wilcox patients in the US. He therefore decided to make an order under Section 6 of the Export Control Act 2002, That the Grand Committee do report to the controlling the export of sodium thiopental from the House that it has considered the Export Control UK to the US. The order came into force on 30 November (Amendment) (No. 3) Order 2011. 2010. Since that date, any person seeking to export Relevant document: 21st Report from the Joint sodium thiopental from the United Kingdom to the Committee on Statutory Instruments. United States has required a licence issued by the Export Control Organisation within BIS. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Following that decision, the charity Reprieve formally for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox): asked the Government to extend the controls to cover My Lords, the order is being introduced under Section the other drugs that are currently legally defined in the 6 of the Export Control Act 2002. Its effect is to execution protocols of relevant US states. Most states control the export to the United States of America of use three drugs—sodium thiopental as an anaesthetic, thedrugssodiumthiopental,potassiumchloride,pancuronium pancuronium bromide as a muscle relaxant, and potassium bromide and sodium pentobarbital, when in a form chloride to stop the heart. At least one state, Oklahoma, suitable for injection. It prohibits the export of these has substituted the anaesthetic sodium pentobarbital drugs to the US unless the exporter has first obtained a because of the shortage of sodium thiopental. GC 19 Export Control Order 2011[LORDS] Export Control Order 2011 GC 20

[BARONESS WILCOX] by having a bullet put in the back of his neck. It is While these drugs are currently used by some US something which—old Liberal or new Liberal states for the purposes of lethal injection in this way, Democrat—I and my party have opposed for a very potassium chloride and pancuronium bromide are long time and I am delighted that this order has been both ordinarily used in human medicine, whereas sodium brought forward. pentobarbital primarily applies to veterinary medicine. I hope that I shall not again have the experience Officials within BIS consulted relevant UK marketing that happened not so very long ago when I received a authorisation holders, trade associations and wholesalers phone call from someone on death row in a Caribbean to determine the potential impacts of extending controls country telling me that they were building gallows on the export to the United States of these drugs. This outside his cell and that he was due to be executed on suggested that currently there are no exports of these the following Monday—this being a Friday afternoon. substances from the United Kingdom to the United Fortunately, on that occasion we were able to save States for medical or veterinary purposes, nor did him. there appear to be any prospect of such exports. In The death penalty is a disgusting punishment. It is addition, unlike sodium thiopental, there has not been contrary to Article 2 of the European convention and a comparable suggestion of a shortage of these drugs contrary to all human rights conventions throughout in the US. It follows that export controls on these the world, and I am pleased that this order takes it drugs would be unlikely to impact either on medical further. exports by UK companies or on medical or veterinary practice in the US. The Government’s conclusion, therefore, is that an Lord Young of Norwood Green: My Lords, we have extended control is justified. It will guard against been round this statutory instrument track before but future exports from the United Kingdom of drugs for I congratulate the Minister on a comprehensive report. the purpose of executions, and it will do so without I am now a lot more knowledgeable about sodium harming legitimate trade. I should stress that the order thiopental and pancuromium bromide—clearly a reflects the particular circumstances of the United word with which the Minister had trouble. It was a States and applies only to that country. An order that comprehensive report. I was not aware of the precise controlled the export of these drugs more widely usage of these particular drugs and we welcome the might have affected legitimate medical trade in a way fact that there is both a direct and indirect control. that this proposed order would not. That is important. The order came into force on 16 April. From that I have one question before I conclude. In date, any person seeking to export from the United paragraph 8—the consultation outcome—it rather Kingdom to the United States any of these drugs that strangely says: are in a form suitable for injection requires a licence “Following a short general industry consultation, the trade issued by the Export Control Organisation, which will between the UK and the US on these products appears to be negligible”. refuse a licence if the stated end use is execution or if it considers there to be an unacceptable risk that the Does “appears to be negligible” mean that they were drug will be diverted for use in execution. In the latter not satisfied with the process of validation? If the case, the organisation would assess the risks case by Minister cannot answer today, I would welcome a case in the light of all relevant factors. A breach of the response in writing. order is a criminal offence. The control order covers We on this side share the abhorrence of the noble both the direct and indirect export of sodium thiopental Lord, Lord Thomas, of the death penalty. He reminded from the United Kingdom to the United States. The us in graphic terms what it is like for individuals facing indirect control applies when the destination is not the that fate, which is unfortunately still too common in United States but the exporter knows that the goods many countries around the world. The fact that we will be re-exported and that the ultimate destination is can play a small but important role in ensuring that indeed the United States. we do not contribute towards a practice that all of us The order was laid before Parliament pursuant to in the House abhor is important. Apart from my the procedure in Section 13 of the 2002 Act and, one minor question, we, too, welcome this statutory unless approved by a resolution of each House within instrument. 40 days, will cease to have effect. Orders made under Section 6 last for a maximum of 12 months. On the Baroness Wilcox: My Lords, I am grateful to my basis of the facts that I have outlined, I commend this noble friend Lord Thomas of Gresford for recounting order to the Committee. The operation and effect of his personal experiences as a distinguished lawyer on the order will be kept under review in the light of the subject of execution and I thank him for his future developments. I beg to move. support for the order. Yes, the noble Lord, Lord Young,and I have been round these statutory instruments Lord Thomas of Gresford: My Lords, nothing can before, but I am grateful to have his immediate support be quite as stomach-churning as hearing one’s client for this one. I apologise for my pronunciation of some being sentenced to death—as I have—and to know of the drugs. I am not up on it—and I am very happy that the system of appeals will then follow. I was not to have been up on the names of those particular discussing only at lunchtime today one case where my drugs. client was condemned to death in Hong Kong. He As to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Young, won his appeal. There was a second trial and he was about the words “appears to be negligible”, I have it acquitted, but he ended up being executed in China here that there should be minimal if not zero legitimate GC 21 Export Control Order 2011[7 JUNE 2011] Taxation of Equitable Life Order 2011 GC 22 trade in these drugs. Our consultation has shown that We also established the Independent Commission there is no trade. I am sorry, but my official could not on Equitable Life Payments, chaired by Brian Pomeroy, understand what was written and I cannot read the to advise on the distribution of the remaining funding reply, which is very embarrassing. I shall try again. It among other policyholders. The commission reported should be “minimal if not zero”; there is no trade. in January, and its recommendations formed the basis I am sorry that I made such a fist of that when all I of the Equitable Life payment scheme design document had to do was say that I hope I have dealt with the key that was published on 16 May. The document sets out points made by the noble Lord and that I commend the detail of how the scheme will work, including who the order to the Committee. will receive payments, how they will be calculated, and how they will be made. In that document, we set out Motion agreed. our intention to make first payments through the scheme by the end of this month, and we are on track to meet this target. Taxation of Equitable Life (Payments) Noble Lords may be pleased to hear that that this Order 2011 brings me to the order itself. When we introduced the Considered in Grand Committee Equitable Life (Payments) Bill last year, we took a power to provide for authorised payments made by the scheme to be free of tax, and to enable them to be 4.50 pm disregarded for the purposes of assessing eligibility for Moved By Lord Sassoon certain means-tested state-funded support. At the spending review, the Financial Secretary to the Treasury announced That the Grand Committee do report to the that the payments would be tax free. There are strong House that it has considered the Taxation of Equitable reasons for this, which were raised in the representations Life (Payments) Order 2011. following the publication of Sir John’s advice. One key Relevant document: 19th Report from the Joint issue is simplicity. It would be an extremely difficult Committee on Statutory Instruments. task to decide the appropriate tax treatment of a payment that represents loss suffered on an investment The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord over the past 10 years, during which many policyholders’ Sassoon): My Lords, to set this order in context, it may circumstances may have changed. It would also be be helpful if I provided a little background on the very challenging to explain any such treatment and development of the Equitable Life payment scheme. associated reporting requirements to those in receipt The Government have pledged to implement the of payments. This approach would also be extremely Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman’s time-consuming. In light of our commitment to bringing recommendation to make fair and transparent payments the Equitable Life issue to a conclusion as quickly as to Equitable Life policyholders for their relative loss possible, it is just not tenable. as a consequence of regulatory failure. We have made Secondly, we have taken serious consideration of considerable progress towards fulfilling that pledge. fairness. Of a total loss of £4.1 billion, £1.5 billion will We introduced the Equitable Life (Payments) Bill in be made available to the scheme, based on our careful July 2010, giving HM Treasury authority to incur assessment of what funding would strike a fair balance expenditure when making these payments. We published between fairness to policyholders and fairness to the Sir John Chadwick’s advice on the financial losses taxpayer. Adding a tax liability to payments on top of sustained by Equitable Life policyholders, invited this discount would disrupt this balance. representations on this advice, and carefully considered Let me take the Committee through the order. them in our deliberations in advance of the spending Articles 2 to 4 provide for authorised payments to be review. Following that consideration, and refinements disregarded for the purposes of capital gains tax, to the calculations of Sir John’s actuaries, we quantified corporation tax and income tax. All direct payments the relative loss at £4.1 billion, based on a full acceptance from the scheme to identified payees, as set out in the of the Parliamentary Ombudsman’s findings of Equitable Life Payments Scheme design document, maladministration. In determining the level of payments are authorised payments under the scheme. Where through the scheme, it was important, as the Parliamentary Equitable Life has only one set of data and no records Ombudsman herself acknowledged, to take into account of the individual members of a group pension scheme, the impact on the public purse. Therefore, at the the scheme will use the trustee of the group pension spending review we announced that approximately scheme as a paying agent. Onward payments from £1.5 billion would be paid out through the payment these trustees to their pension scheme members are scheme. also authorised payments. It is also important to note that even in the context Article 5 provides for inheritance tax. It ensures of a very tight spending review, we still found a way to that a person’s right to, or interest in, an authorised cover all the losses of the with-profits or trapped payment will be disregarded in calculating the value of annuitants. This is possible because we will be paying that person’s estate on death for the purposes of their losses through annual payments that reflect the inheritance tax; and that such rights or interests are structure of their policies. These policyholders were similarly disregarded in calculating the value of relevant particularly vulnerable to their losses because they property subject to a 10-year anniversary charge for were unable to move their funds elsewhere or mitigate inheritance tax, where an authorised payment is made the impact of their losses through employment. They on or after such anniversary. This means that no estate are also generally the oldest policyholders. will have to be reopened in order for inheritance tax to GC 23 Taxation of Equitable Life Order 2011[LORDS] Taxation of Equitable Life Order 2011 GC 24

[LORD SASSOON] In the original debate there was some concern be charged on payments received after death. But about the allocation to the group of with-profits payments received before death will not be ring-fenced annuitants. The general principle that they should be to give them ongoing relief from inheritance tax. Such protected against the comparison at 100 per cent was ring-fencing is not practicable. consensual. However, as my noble friend Lord McKenzie Article 6 provides that in calculating investment said in the debate: income for the purposes of entitlement to tax credits “If relative loss is calculated on a gross-of-tax basis and the an authorised payment shall be disregarded. Section 9 post-1992 with-profit annuitants are kept whole on this basis, will of the scheme design document that we published last not the tax exemption go further than full reimbursement?”.—[Official month sets out in detail how the tax relief set out in Report, 24/11/10; col. 1152.] the order will work in relation to the scheme. I accept the case that has been made for simplicity but, I hope that all present will support the making of in terms of the balance between the two pots, are the this order today. Following today’s debate, the order is Government comfortable that this has not created an scheduled for debate in the other place tomorrow. This anomaly between the with-profits group and the non- should ensure that the order is made before the end of with-profits group? the month, giving certainty and reassurance to those I join the noble Lord in seeking further information who will receive the first payments. The order reflects on the progress of payments but, aside from that the Government’s principles of fairness, transparency question and perhaps the matter of an enhanced progress and simplicity in our response to the Equitable Life report, we support the order. saga, and I beg to move.

Lord Newby: My Lords, I thank the Minister for Lord Sassoon: My Lords, first, I thank my noble that clear description of the background and of the friend Lord Newby and the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, order. The whole Equitable Life saga is one of the for their helpful contributions to this short debate and least-savoury examples of public policymaking in recent for supporting the order. The making of the order is a years, and it was a great relief that the Government crucial step towards making the first payments at the were able to grasp the nettle and reach a settlement so end of the month. quickly last year. Therefore speed, which was so lacking I shall address the questions that have been raised for so long, needs now to be of the essence in getting by my noble friend Lord Newby, followed up by the payments made. The Minister explained that the payments noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, about how the timetable will be exempt of tax because to have made them liable will unfold. As I said, the first payments will commence to tax could have been time consuming. One can think by the end of this month. It is then expected that of other cases in which the payment of compensation payments to all traceable accumulating with-profits has taken years because of the time-consuming procedures groups and conventional with-profits policyholders that were put in place. The pneumoconiosis saga among will be made over the first three years of the scheme. the miners is a classic example of necessary detailed Payments to with-profits annuity policyholders for calculations and assessment taking years, during which past losses will be spread over the first five years of the time inevitably a significant number of those eligible scheme, while annual payments for future losses will for the payments died. Given that we are talking here commence in year one and continue for the lifetime of about pensioners, time is of the essence. the policyholders. All individual policyholders can I have one question for the Minister. Once the order expect to hear from the scheme in the first year—that is passed, the Government hope to begin making is, by June 2012. As I think I said, for certain classes of payments by the end of this month. Do they have any policyholder closure of the process will be within three assessment of how long it is likely to take for the years; for others, five years; and for one class, as I whole process to be completed? That is of huge importance identified, over their lifetime. I hope that that makes to the individual policyholders. It is great knowing the position clear in respect of the several different that you are going to get some compensation, but you classes of policyholder. need certainty. It would therefore be very good if the In response to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Government could give some certainty in the timetable Tunnicliffe, on why tax relief is being granted on so that even those who will not receive payment in the payments to with-profit annuitants who will have received first tranche will have some broad idea of when they 100 per cent of their losses covered by the scheme, will receive it. losses for with-profit annuitants have been calculated on a gross basis. As I have just said, unlike other 5pm policyholders, those annuitants will receive their payments Lord Tunnicliffe: My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister over time and we will not be paying any interest on for his concise overview of the position and for introducing those payments between the date of the calculation— the order. We support the action that the Government December 2009—and the date of receipt. Disregarding have taken on this whole issue, and we accept that, the payments for tax will offset the effect of that although we may have different views about the payment schedule and the absence of any interest. It is approaches taken, speed is of the essence and the important to note that these payments are in respect order should go through. We know that during the of losses that go back over nearly two decades and it passage of the primary legislation there was some would be an incredibly complex and burdensome task debate on the quantum, but ultimately Governments to work out what the tax positions for individuals are in the business of making decisions and we recognise would have been at the relevant time. As has been the decision to set the payment scheme at £1.5 billion. recognised, the scheme needs to be simple and not GC 25 Taxation of Equitable Life Order 2011[7 JUNE 2011] Taxation of Equitable Life Order 2011 GC 26 unduly complex. In recognition of that, we have decided We have come a long way in the past year to to make the payments tax free. In the round, we do not redressing the losses that Equitable Life policyholders believe that this will result in overpayment for with-profits have suffered over the past decade. Following the annuitants, given the offset that I have identified. coming into effect of the order, a communications strategy is in place so that all recipients will be informed Briefly, as regards reporting on the progress of the that their payments are to be tax free, and that they do scheme—an issue that was briefly touched on by the not have to report them for tax purposes. In addition, noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe—progress will be tracked HMRC helplines, and the staff at payment scheme call and evaluated throughout the lifetime of the scheme, centres will be provided with lines to take so as to and I envisage that a number of reports will be produced, answer any questions on the tax treatment of these including in relation to the management of contracts, payments. I am grateful for the Committee’s support. operations and risks. I am happy to give reassurance Motion agreed. that the Government will give Parliament regular updates on the progress of the scheme. Committee adjourned at 5.08 pm.

WS 1 Written Statements[7 JUNE 2011] Written Statements WS 2

The House will be aware of concerns over the Written Statements future financial viability of the care home company Southern Cross Healthcare. Tuesday 7 June 2011 The Government understand that recent events and media speculation will have caused concern to residents Arm’s-length Bodies in Southern Cross care homes, their relatives and Statement families and staff. The Government’s primary concern in this matter is for the welfare of the residents living in Southern The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Cross homes. That must be paramount. For that reason, Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): My right honourable it is important that this matter is resolved in a measured friend the Secretary of State for Education (Michael and orderly manner. Gove) has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. Officials have been in frequent contact with Southern Cross’s senior management over the past three months I am committed to improving the transparency, and continue to be so. Ministers have been monitoring accountability and efficiency of the education system, the situation carefully. including slimming-down the number of arms-length bodies. This will allow more resource to be directed to Through discussions with Southern Cross, its landlords the front line, where it matters most, and enable people and its lenders, we have ensured that everyone involved to see more clearly who is accountable for what and to understands their responsibilities towards the residents. speak more directly to Government. Whatever the outcome of the restructuring by Southern Partnerships for Schools (PfS) will be wound up Cross, no-one will find themselves homeless or without and its functions transferred to the Department for care. The Government will not let that happen. The Education policy directorates and the new Education department has been working with the Local Government Funding Agency (EFA), an executive agency of the Association, Association of Directors of Adult Social department. My intention is that this will happen in Services and the Care Quality Commission, to ensure April 2012. that all agencies are clear on our respective roles and responsibilities. Following Sebastian James’s proposals for a new system for managing capital expenditure and the wider It is for Southern Cross, its landlords and those reform of arms-length bodies, I have decided the time with an interest in the business to put in place a plan is right to bring together, in a single agency, the that stabilises the business and ensures continuity in allocation and management of revenue and capital the operation of the care homes. That process is in funding, including the delivery of capital programmes. hand and we must let it continue. We believe that the commercial difficulties that Southern Cross has I would like to take this opportunity to thank encountered are capable of resolution within the sector. Partnerships for Schools for their excellent work over It is not the role of Government to interfere in these the years. In particular, I am grateful for their support commercial negotiations. and advice on academies and free schools, contributing to the success of these priority reforms for the coalition All parties involved—including other government Government. departments, local authorities and the Care Quality Commission—are ready to take decisive action if these I can also confirm that the post of chief executive plans do not create a viable platform for the future. of the Education Funding Agency will be filled by Peter Lauener, transferring from his current role as There are clear and effective protections in place chief executive of the YoungPeople’s Learning Agency that cover this situation. No resident—whether publicly subject to the passage of the legislation necessary to or self funded—would be left homeless or without dissolve that organisation. The Education Funding care. In an emergency, a local authority can provide Agency will take over responsibility from the Young residential accommodation to anyone who had an People’s Learning Agency for the funding of young urgent need for it. A local authority would continue to people’s education and training—including the increasing provide care for any self-funding resident who was number of academies. Peter’s leadership of the Young unable to find or arrange care for themselves. People’s Learning Agency, since its inception, has The Government will continue to monitor the situation made an invaluable contribution to the success of that closely and reiterate to all parties that they have a organisation and I expect that he will make a similar collective responsibility to resolve the situation in a contribution to the work of the Education Funding way that does not put at risk the continuity or quality Agency. of care of residents.

Care Homes: Southern Cross Care Services: Winterbourne View Statement Statement

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe): My honourable Department of Health (Earl Howe): My honourable friend the Minister of State, Department of Health friend the Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul Burstow), has made the following Written (Paul Burstow) has made the following Written Ministerial Ministerial Statement. Statement. WS 3 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 4

This Government believe that people with a learning CQC has acknowledged that there were indications disability have the right to lead their lives free from of problems at Winterbourne View which should fear and discrimination, to receive the care and support have led to it acting sooner. CQC has issued an they need, and to be treated with dignity and respect. unreserved apology to those it has let down. Jo The abuse at Winterbourne View exposed by Williams, chair of CQC, has also written to the whistleblower Terry Bryan and documented by the department expressing her regret for CQC’s failure BBC “Panorama” team will be a cause of enormous to act in this case. She and CQC staff are fully concern not just to the families and patients affected committed to learning the lessons from this tragic but to all who are concerned about the care and case and to making sure that when there are signs support society provides to vulnerable people. The of poor care, CQC acts quickly to protect vulnerable department extends its deepest sympathy to those who people. In seeking to strengthen CQC as a quality have suffered abuse and all those who love and support inspectorate, we will work closely with CQC to them. ensure it is able to carry out its functions effectively and efficiently. The responsibility for the quality and safety in care crucially depends on: In the light of incidents at Winterbourne View, CQC has started an immediate responsive review of providers, who have a duty of care to each individual all services run by Castlebeck Care (a further 22 locations they are responsible for, ensuring that services meet in England). Inspections will be completed within the individual needs and that there are systems and next two to three weeks. Reports on these individual processes in place to ensure there is effective, efficient services as well as a summary report will then be and high-quality care; publicly available on CQC’s website. commissioners (both primary care trusts and local In addition, CQC will begin a focused inspection authorities), who are responsible for purchasing programme which will review care provided by hospitals care which meets people’s needs and ensuring that for people with learning disabilities. The three-month they are clear about the quality and effectiveness of programme of reviews will involve unannounced that care; and inspections at a sample of the 150 hospitals that the regulators (both the quality regulator and the provide care for people with learning disabilities. Where professions’ regulators), who are responsible for CQC identifies care that is not meeting requirements, assuring the quality of care. it will be able to use its full range of enforcement powers to take immediate action to require hospitals Following an approach from “Panorama” on Friday to make necessary improvements. 13 May, the national and local agencies involved have acted promptly and decisively to resolve the situation. Each patient at Winterbourne View has been regularly Their first priority was ensuring the safety of patients reviewed by a multi-disciplinary clinical team on behalf at Winterbourne View. of the primary care trust that commissioned their care. In many cases, this process has involved conversations A criminal investigation is also under way and the with patients and relatives. All patients had been reviewed House will understand that I am limited in what I can in the last six months, most in the past three months. say about particular events to avoid compromising Those primary care trusts that commissioned the care police activities. for the patients who were resident in Winterbourne The steps taken since 13 May include: View are carrying out an urgent review of the processes used to commission and review patients in privately South Gloucestershire Council called an immediate provided services. The outcome will be fed into the multi-agency adult safeguarding meeting. This meeting wider multi-agency safeguarding review. included the local authority, the local NHS and the police, together with the Care Quality Commission On 1 June 2011 South Gloucestershire Council (CQC) and Castlebeck Care (who are the providers announced that it will lead an independently-chaired of services at Winterbourne View). Immediate action serious case review (involving all agencies) which will has been taken to ensure the safety of current look in detail at the specifics of this case and we will patients, including the suspension of 15 staff and a consider its findings carefully. decision not to accept further patients at Winterbourne I asked officials on 18 May to undertake an View; examination of the roles of all of the agencies involved NHS commissioners have also put in place independent in this case, drawing together the key lessons from the clinical and managerial supervision, and commissioned reviews being undertaken by the CQC, the NHS and independent assessments of all current patients. All safeguarding boards. The department will be assisted people in Winterbourne View now have a personal in that task by Mark Goldring, the chief executive of advocate; Mencap, who will bring not only an independent perspective but also a depth and breadth of knowledge CQC is taking enforcement action; of the needs of people with learning disabilities. Ministers all admissions to the unit have been suspended; will then report further to Parliament. and The planned reforms for health and social care CQC is working with others to vacate the unit and should also increase our ability to drive up standards appropriately relocate the patients through a systematic in services and to deliver joined-up services and optimal search for suitable alternative placements, taking care to patients with highly specialised needs. Subject into account the specialist needs of the patients and to the NHS listening exercise and the passage of the the wishes of their families. Health and Social Care Bill, the NHS Commissioning WS 5 Written Statements[7 JUNE 2011] Written Statements WS 6

Board will commission specified specialised services, studies. The results of that consultation and the four with commissioning consortia responsible for studies have been published on the DfID website. The commissioning other complex services. Through consortia, International Development Committee of this House general practitioners and other clinicians will have has since conducted an inquiry into the future of new opportunities to shape the way that health services CDC. Its report was published on 3 March 2011, and are designed and delivered. Taking into account the the Government’s response was given on 4 May. increasing range of NICE quality standards, consortia I can now inform the House that the Government will work closely with secondary care and other healthcare and the CDC Board have agreed a new high-level and social care professionals, and with community business plan, published during the Whitsun Recess partners. on 31 May, which sets out how CDC will carry through We will ensure that there is particular emphasis the reforms I proposed last October. within the pathfinder programme on testing ways of ensuring that consortia quickly develop knowledge CDC will be more focused on the poor than any and expertise in relation to more complex and specialist other development finance institution, building further services. This will include exploring joint commissioning on its strong concentration on the poorer countries in with local authorities, for instance in relation to care south Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa. In future, all and support for people with long-term mental health CDC’s new investment commitments will be for the conditions and people with learning disabilities, allowing benefit of these two regions, where over 70 per cent of people to remain in their local communities, maintaining the world’s poorest people live. In India, CDC will their relationships with family and friends. move to a concentration on the eight poorest Indian states. We will ensure that the NHS Commissioning Board has a particular focus on promoting quality improvement CDC will not invest in regions or sectors which are in relation to more complex or specialist services. already well-served by private investors, such as large-scale mining in many countries. Otherwise, it will be responsible We have also announced our intention to make for selecting, on the basis of the strongest anticipated safeguarding adults boards a legal requirement. This development outcomes, investments from across a wide will strengthen the local governance and accountability range of sectors. of safeguarding arrangements. It will enable local partners in local authorities, the NHS and the police CDC will aim to reduce the proportion of its portfolio to work closely with their communities to safeguard held in other countries outside the new focus regions vulnerable adults. Safeguarding adults boards currently over time to 15-20 per cent by 2015. It will not invest in exist in every local authority but are not mandatory. the better-off developing countries, unless for the benefit By legislating, we intend to make them stronger in of poorer countries in the relevant region. their efforts to prevent abuse and to respond unequivocally There will be a new performance framework for where it does occur. CDC, focused on development impact rather than We will also take steps to support, and respond to, CDC’s own profitability. It will be a development- whistleblowers. Our proposals for HealthWatch mean maximising, not a profit-maximising, enterprise. CDC that local HealthWatch organisations could ask CQC will measure the impact of its investments on generation to investigate services where they have concerns. In of incomes and tax revenues, broader private sector addition, proposals for local HealthWatch organisations development, mobilising private capital, and improving to signpost people to information about services and socially and environmentally responsible management help them if they want to complain about NHS services in beneficiary companies. Stretching targets will be set would provide additional early warning of problems for these indicators for CDC to meet and they will be with particular services. This could lead to HealthWatch reviewed annually. being able to enter and view services and make recommendations about improvements. CDC will become bolder and more pioneering in its approach to innovation and risk: being more creative Every part of the system must be working to drive and accepting higher financial risks where these are up standards and take collective responsibility for justified by greater development benefits. It will reach minimising the chances of this series of events happening the parts that other emerging market investors too again. often don’t. But it will still ensure that it remains sufficiently profitable to offset the cost of the taxpayers’ CDC Group plc money invested in it, as defined by Her Majesty’s Treasury. Whilst development impact will be the driver, Statement CDC will also look to build the companies in which it invests into commercially sustainable enterprises. Baroness Verma: My right honourable friend the CDC will no longer exclusively operate indirectly Secretary of State for International Development (Andrew through private equity funds managed by others, but Mitchell) has made the following Written Ministerial will work through a wider range of intermediaries—and Statement. importantly build up its own direct investments. It will In October 2010 I informed the House of the do this gradually and initially only through co-financing Government’s decision to reconfigure CDC in order with other lead investors, as it redevelops its capacity radically to increase its development impact. to seek out and manage direct investments. Likewise, In my previous Statement I set out the objectives of it will offer lending as well as equity financing, with this reform and announced a public consultation, as the aim of increasing the share of loan instruments in well as the commissioning of a number of independent its portfolio. WS 7 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 8

CDC will continue to make new commitments to published on taxes paid within CDC’s portfolio and, if private equity fund managers, and to support and specific information cannot be published, CDC will develop suitable local investment management firms, explain why. but with the aim of reducing the fund of funds share DfID will work more closely with CDC, both at of its assets to some 60 per cent by 2015. In running country level and at the centre. CDC’s business plan down this part of its portfolio, the realisation of full will be reviewed annually and CDC will report annually value for money for the taxpayer will remain the to the Secretary of State on achievement against its primary consideration. targets, which we will publish. The remuneration framework agreed for CDC by The Board of CDC has responded willingly and the previous Government, which aimed to align CDC constructively to the recent scrutiny of its work and to remuneration with private equity Fund of Funds firms the changes that the Government have proposed. There in the City of London, has led to inflated remuneration. is now the opportunity to strengthen CDC’s role as a A study by independent consultants has indicated that leading instrument in the UK’s policy for accelerating in comparison with other publicly owned development poverty reduction in the poorer countries through finance institutions, and with private foundations doing enterprise and economic growth. similar work, CDC remuneration has risen far above the median levels elsewhere. We must bring pay and bonuses down to a level that Children: Commercialisation and is fair and appropriate, but not excessive, for a publicly owned body whose very purpose is to reduce poverty. Sexualisation The CDC Board will take immediate action to cut Statement bonus levels by 50 per cent for this year. Once a new CDC chief executive is in place, the Government will agree with CDC’s board on how to restructure pay to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for attract, motivate and retain people with the attitude Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): My honourable friend and skills necessary to take part in this exciting new the Minister of State for Children and Families (Sarah phase of CDC’s existence. The new remuneration Teather) has made the following Written Ministerial framework will prioritise development results rather Statement. than profitability and any performance-related pay It is natural for parents to want the best for their will be largely deferred and based on long-term children. It is just as natural for them to want to do performance. what they can to protect their children from the potential risks to their health, happiness and safety. Among the In response to the public consultation on CDC, concerns that parents have is that their children are CDC will publish a new disclosure policy aimed at under the twin pressures to grow up too quickly and to making its work as transparent as possible. While become consumers or sexualised adults earlier than is observing the constraints of commercial confidentiality appropriate. These pressures on children today are and the Data Protection Act, CDC will publish more greater than they were for previous generations. They information on the businesses using its capital, the reach children through all forms of popular culture, funds investing it, and the economic impact of including television, film, magazines, newspapers, music investments—and on CDC’s remuneration and operating and the internet. Children and young people encounter costs. More of CDC’s evaluations will be conducted them in their homes, when they go shopping or out independently, going beyond the current 50 per cent; with friends and family, and on their mobile phones and as much evaluation material as possible will be and games consoles. published that does not jeopardise commercial confidentiality. CDC’s investment policy, agreed with This Government share the concerns of parents DfID, will also be published. about these pressures. On 6 December 2010, the Government asked Mr Reg Bailey, chief executive of CDC will update its investment code to reflect the the Mothers’ Union, to carry out an independent latest international standards and best practice and review of the commercialisation and sexualisation of will continue to ensure, by means of independent childhood. His review is the first step in fulfilling the external audit, that its compliance and implementation commitment we made to take action to protect children is properly monitored. from excessive commercialisation and premature sexualisation. CDC has strengthened its policy on taxation: where it is within CDC’s discretion as originating or sole I am now pleased to announce that Mr Bailey’s investor, CDC will not make new investments in or review, Letting Children Be Children, was published through harmful tax regimes, or regimes which do not yesterday. Copies will be placed in the House Libraries. comply with international tax transparency and exchange Mr Bailey has made a full and comprehensive of information standards (as defined by the OECD report and fulfilled the remit he was given. He has and Global Forum on Transparency and Exchange of built on the important work of other reviewers in this Information for Tax Purposes). Where CDC does not area, notably those of Professor David Buckingham have such discretion, CDC will make a judgment on and colleagues, and others by Professor Tanya Byron the merits of the proposed new investment against the and Dr Linda Papadopoulos, and drawn on a review nature of the tax regime—and be transparent about of more recent literature on the topic carried out by that judgment. CDC will also be transparent in its Dr Ann Phoenix of the Childhood Wellbeing Research dealings from a tax perspective. Information will be Centre. WS 9 Written Statements[7 JUNE 2011] Written Statements WS 10

Mr Bailey has been particularly interested in hearing as fully as possible, whilst remaining open to industry the views of the people most affected by the unwarranted and regulators devising alternative or additional pressures to grow up too quickly: parents and children. approaches to delivering the outcomes that the The review commissioned face-to-face surveys of the recommendations are aimed at achieving. views of parents and children and qualitative research Two recommendations are directed to Government with parents, undertook a call for evidence from parents, themselves. Mr Bailey has recommended that the and drew on the results of a survey of children and Government should consider strengthening the controls young people carried out by the Children and Young on music videos. The Department for Culture, Media People’s Advisory Board of the Office of the Children’s and Sport will respond to this recommendation by Commissioner. consulting on the operation of the Video Recordings In the course of his review, Mr Bailey met Acts of 1984 and 2010. The consultation will look at a representatives from retailing, advertising, marketing, range of options including consideration of whether it broadcasting and internet service providers, their trade would be appropriate for the exemption that music associations and their regulators. The call for evidence videos enjoy from this legislation to be removed, and from industry and wider stakeholders drew 120 responses call for evidence in support of the costs and benefits of from businesses, trade associations and voluntary such a change. organisations. Mr Bailey also met experts in child This Government are committed to rolling back protection, parenting champions and a range of academic unnecessary regulation, but we will regulate where and other experts in this field. necessary, and in particular to protect children. By The voices of parents and children come through placing the responsibility for action on businesses strongly in the four key themes identified in his report. themselves and, if necessary, their regulators, we believe Children and young people today are surrounded by that businesses will have the best opportunity and sexualised imagery that has become an all-pervasive, incentive to adopt policies and practices as proposed ever-present backdrop to their lives, whether on television, by Mr Bailey in ways which are efficient and indeed the internet, in shops or public spaces. Parents find could provide new opportunities through connecting that goods and services for children in reputable strongly with parents and children. high street shops are sometimes overly-sexualised or We will, as Mr Bailey recommends, take stock of needlessly gendered. Businesses in the children’s market progress in 18 months’ time and consider what further too often treat children only as consumers and not as measures may need to be taken to achieve the children. Parents find it hard to voice their concerns or recommended outcomes. make a complaint and fear they will not be listened to if they do. Mr Bailey has listened to the concerns of parents Civilian Service Medals and takes them seriously. He understands that they Statement want to set the standards and values their children live by and that they want support from businesses and The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth others in doing this. He believes that their views have a Office (Lord Howell of Guildford): My right honourable special status as they speak for children, not just for friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and themselves. Commonwealth Affairs (William Hague) has made That is why, in making his recommendations, Mr Bailey the following Written Ministerial Statement. is seeking ways to make businesses and regulators I am pleased to be able to inform the House that more responsive to the views of parents and to give Her Majesty the Queen has graciously approved a parents more direct influence on how the decisions proposal for the issue of a Civilian Service Medal affecting children are made. Mr Bailey’s view is that (Afghanistan) to recognise service by civilians employed some businesses and regulators behave in exemplary by Her Majesty’s Government working towards a fashion in their dealings with parents and children, stable and secure Afghanistan. I am placing the Command but that those that do not need to step up and be as Paper instituting the Civilian Service Medal (Afghanistan) good as the best. Businesses of all kinds need to in the Library of the House. It will also be published encourage feedback from parents and, where necessary, on the Foreign and Commonwealth Office website take heed of their complaints. Nor is it enough for (www.fco.gov.uk) and on the Government’s UK and businesses simply to comply with the relevant regulatory Afghanistan website (http://afghanistan.hmg.gov.uk/). systems for their industry which were established to Further information on the criteria for eligibility, along protect children: parents expect them to do their best with details on how to nominate individuals for the for children, not simply stick to the rules. Where medal, will also be available on the Foreign and regulation is less prescriptive, businesses should play Commonwealth Office website. fair and not take advantage of children. And regulators, too, need to connect with parents and take more recognition of their views on what is appropriate for Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 their children. Statement The Government welcome Mr Bailey’s analysis and the thrust of all the recommendations he has made. The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord We note that the majority of the recommendations are Sassoon): My honourable friend the Financial Secretary directed at industry and the regulators, and we look to has today issued the following Written Ministerial them to see that these recommendations are implemented Statement. WS 11 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 12

This report sets out details of the Treasury’s exercise IRISL also challenged the Order in early 2010. In during the calendar year 2010 of its functions under March 2011 IRISL withdrew their challenge (which Schedule 7 to the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008. had been stayed pending the outcome of proceedings Paragraph 38 of Schedule 7 requires the Treasury to in the Commercial Court). report to Parliament after each calendar year in which Licensing a direction under the powers is at any time in force. Under paragraph 17 of Schedule 7, the Treasury The Schedule 7 powers can exempt acts specified in a licence from the requirements of a direction requiring the cessation or Schedule 7 provides HM Treasury with powers to limiting of transactions or business relations. implement a graduated range of financial restrictions in response to certain risks to the UK’s national In operating the licensing regime in respect of the interests. The risks it addresses are those posed by Order, the Treasury’s aim was to minimise the impact money laundering, terrorist financing, and the proliferation of the restrictions upon innocent third parties, without of chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear weapons. compromising the objective of the direction. Licences were considered on a case-by-case basis. Direction given under the powers in Schedule 7 The Treasury issued three general licences: The Iran (Financial Restrictions) Order 2009 (“the general licence 1 concerned the holding of accounts Order”) came into force on 12 October 2009. The and funds of designated persons; Order contained a direction by HM Treasury requiring general licence 2 concerned payments to designated persons operating in the financial sector to cease business persons due under prior contracts; and relationships and transactions with Bank Mellat and general licence 3 provided a seven-day grace period Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines (IRISL). for the provision of insurance to designated persons, The direction was given on the basis that activity in after which the prohibitions would apply. Iran that facilitates the development or production of Applications were made to the Treasury on a case- nuclear weapons poses a significant risk to the national by-case basis for acts not covered by any of the general interests of the UK. Bank Mellat had provided banking licences. Between 12 October 2009 and 9 October services to a UN proscribed organisation connected to 2010, 135 licence applications were received. Of these, Iran’s proliferation sensitive activities, and been involved 101 licences were granted and five applications were in transactions related to financing Iran’s nuclear and refused. The other 29 applications were either duplicate ballistic missile programmes. Vessels of IRISL have applications or for acts that did not require a licence. transported goods for both Iran’s ballistic missile and nuclear programmes. The Order was approved by the House of Commons Department for Communities and Local on 28 October 2009 and by the House of Lords on Government 2 November 2009. Statement The direction was in force for a period of 12 months from the day on which the Order was made, and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department expired on 9 October 2010, in accordance with for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): paragraph 16 of Schedule 7. A further direction was My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for not given on its expiry because the European Council, Communities and Local Government (Mr Eric Pickles) in Decision 2010/413/CFSP of 26 July 2010 (“the has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. Council decision”) had imposed restrictive measures I would like to update honourable Members on the against Iran, including designating both Bank Mellat main items of business undertaken by my Department and IRISL (among other entities) for an asset freeze. since the House rose on 24 May 2011. The asset-freezing provisions of the Council decision Accountability were implemented by Council Implementing Regulation In August 2010, I announced plans to disband the (EU) No 668/2010 on 26 July 2010. The effect of the Audit Commission and refocus audit on helping local designation is that all funds and economic resources people hold their council to account. Since then we owned or controlled by Bank have been examining the most cost-effective option for disbanding the Audit Commission, transferring audit Mellat or IRISL in the EU were frozen with immediate into the private sector and allowing local authorities effect, and it is prohibited to make funds or economic to appoint their own auditors. resources available to either entity. On 27 October 2010 Council Regulation (EU) 961/2010 came into On 2 June 2011, we provided an update on plans to force, implementing the additional financial restrictions secure a value for money transfer of the Audit Commission contained in the council decision, including a ban on in-house practice into the private sector. In a letter providing insurance to Iranian persons. from the Department’s Permanent Secretary to councils, we set out our initial view that outsourcing all the Bank Mellat challenged the Order in November audits currently undertaken by the in-house practice 2009. The Order was upheld by the High Court on to the private sector provides the best value for money 11 June 2010. Bank Mellat appealed to the Court of option. We have asked the Audit Commission to begin Appeal, which dismissed the appeal on 13 January substantive preparatory work for outsourcing the 2012/13 2011. Bank Mellat has been granted permission to audits and to design a procurement process that allows appeal to the Supreme Court. a range of firms to bid, including allowing for the WS 13 Written Statements[7 JUNE 2011] Written Statements WS 14 possibility of an employee owned mutual. These measures planning rights being introduced in the Localism Bill. set in train our goal to radically scale back centrally Each of the 40 neighbourhood planning front-runners driven bureaucratic targets and costly inspection, saving will receive £20,000 towards developing their plans the taxpayers money. and will be led by local authorities, working with Transparency community groups and parish councils to prepare The Department is continuing its commitment to draft plans and neighbourhood development orders. deliver transparent and open government, using On 2 June, my colleague, the Minister for Housing transparency to help reduce unnecessary spending and Local Government, launched new guidelines on and help get more for less. On 1 June, we published the Community Right to Build. The guidelines offer historic details of the Department’s Government information to communities considering taking forward Procurement Card from 2008 to date, including all a community led scheme using the new power being spending on the corporate charge cards—not just over introduced in the Localism Bill and encourage people £500. A copy of the dataset is in the Library of the to think about the development they would like to see House. in their area. Promoting Growth Auschwitz-Birkenau Foundation fund This Government wants to create a new generation Auschwitz-Birkenau is an important place of of Enterprise Zones across England that will encourage remembrance; it is our collective responsibility to ensure new business and stimulate growth. Following the that it stands as a perpetual reminder of the pain and announcement of the first 11 vanguard Enterprise destructive force of hate. On 26 May, together with the Zones, on 27 May, I opened up the competition for the Foreign Secretary, we announced a £2.1 million second wave of applications. Criteria and application Government contribution to the Auschwitz-Birkenau forms have been issued to the 29 existing or prospective Foundation fund to help ensure the lessons of Auschwitz Local Enterprise Partnerships that have expressed interest live on for generations to come. The money will be in establishing one of the next 10 Enterprise Zones. used to ensure the long-term preservation and restoration Applications will be assessed against their ability to of the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp and deliver growth, the value for money they deliver and its important place in educating people of the horrors the robustness of implementation plans to ensure that of the Holocaust. the best possible sites are selected. House building is a top priority for this Government and we believe that bureaucratic Regional Strategies Disabled People: Transport slowed down the planning system and acted as an Statement unnecessary impediment to growth. On 27 May, CALA Homes lost its second challenge against the Government’s intention to revoke Regional Strategies, first announced Earl Attlee: My honourable friend the Parliamentary in July 2010. The Court of Appeal confirmed that Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker) planning authorities and inspectors can take our intention has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. to abolish Regional Strategies into consideration in The cross-government review of non-departmental deciding planning applications and appeals. public bodies, responding to this House in October The public sector owns 16,000 hectares of previously 2010, decided that the public bodies landscape needed developed land. In the Chancellor’s Plan for Growth radical reform to increase accountability, cut out published alongside Budget 2011, we committed to duplication of activity, increase transparency and accelerate the release of this land to encourage discontinue activities that were no longer needed. Amongst development. Work undertaken since March shows the recommendations was that DPTAC be abolished. that by pushing harder we can unlock land to deliver The Public Bodies Bill is currently before Parliament. up to 100,000 homes—and as many as 25,000 jobs by The Bill, as drafted, would allow the Government to 2015. We are publishing the Homes and Communities make an order abolishing DPTAC. If the Bill is passed Agency’s land disposal strategy, and this will deliver with this provision in it, I am minded to make such an over 11,000 housing starts over the Spending Review order. But before coming to a definite decision to do period—an increase of nearly 40 per cent over what so, I intend to consult on the order and will make no was previously planned. final decision until I have taken into account the The Minister for Housing and Local Government responses to that consultation. has set out how we can get this asset working harder In advance of this formal consultation I am inviting for us – supporting local growth and the construction views from all those with an interest on what successor industry and building more badly-needed homes. And arrangements should be put in place if DPTAC is this autumn, government departments will publish abolished. I am seeking to ensure that any successor plans to release thousands of acres of land to arrangement will continue to provide my department housebuilders, so they can get on and build the homes with consensual, pan-disability advice in a flexible the country needs and raising revenue for the Exchequer. way, and that any arrangement represents value for Power to communities money. My Department believes that communities should I propose to invite comments on the options listed have the power to shape their neighbourhoods. below: On 1 June, my colleague, the Minister for Decentralisation option 1—rely on existing expertise in the Department and Planning, announced a further 40 communities to for Transport policy divisions and agencies. Where join the 50 already taking part in trialling the neighbourhood ad-hoc specific advice is needed, it could be sought WS 15 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 16

by individual policy divisions from third party The White Paper offers an ambitious vision for the stakeholder groups, the transport industry, and experts. next 50 years; to be the generation that leaves the This would have minimal cost (although commissioned, natural environment in a better state than we found it. consultancy advice could be expensive) but perhaps Key aims of the paper are: risks disability issues being overlooked; to protect and improve our natural environment; option 2—establish a stakeholder forum, which to grow a greener economy; could be convened and provide advice as and when issues arose. Again this would have minimal cost, to capture the benefits which nature has for our but could again result in an increased consultancy wellbeing; and bill. It might also be difficult to decide who to to secure a healthy natural environment overseas. appoint to the forum. There are over 50 disability The NEWP aims to better engage and connect local groups, and their interests sometimes conflict (eg communities with their natural environments, making the interests of the visually impaired, and those it easier for them to get involved in protecting and using mobility scooters). Achieving consensus could enhancing nature in their area. therefore be difficult; Alongside the White Paper we have also published option 3—rely on a cross-government body to provide a more detailed response to the Making Space for transport advice—for example the existing (non- Nature review, which is available on the Defra website. statutory) Equality 2025, run by the Department A copy of the White Paper is available at: www.defra. for Work and Pensions. This option should ensure gov.uk/environment/natural/whitepaper/. that disability issues do not get overlooked. Equality 2025 is likely to be able to offer general advice—for example on transport access to the Olympics by EU: Agriculture and Fisheries Council disabled people—but would not be in a position to Statement offer more specialist advice, for example the type of mobility scooter models suitable to be carried on public transport; The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, option 4—establish a non-statutory specialist body Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which would be flexible and accountable to Ministers. (Lord Henley): My right honourable friend the Secretary This may cost more than the options above, but of State has today made the following Statement. should be less expensive than the current arrangements. My noble friend Lord Henley represented the United However, a smaller body because of its size, may Kingdom at the Agriculture and Fisheries Council in not cover all disability areas, and therefore could Brussels on 17 May. reduce the opportunities to provide pan-disability The only item on the main agenda was the participation advice; and of the EU in negotiations on a legally binding agreement option 5—a wide ranging panel of experts from (LBA) on forests in Europe at the Ministerial meeting which members could be drawn, on an ad hoc basis, in Oslo on 14-16 June. The presidency urged the when specific advice is needed. A once-a-year meeting council to reach consensus on the two decisions required: of all specified stakeholders could be held so that the council decision on EU areas of competence; they all have the opportunity of voicing wider and concerns. the member state decision on areas of national My initial thinking is that option 5 would be the competence. most appropriate path to take, but I would welcome The Commission wanted the two decisions treated views to inform my decision-making in this area. as a package and agreed by consensus and the Council Legal Service’s opinion was that this mix of EU and Environment MS competence required a consensus agreement. Most Statement member states supported the LBA; the UK, Sweden and the Netherlands were opposed. The UK, whilst supporting the voluntary aspect of Forest Europe’s The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, work, reiterated its objections on the basis that an Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs LBA would involve both financial and policy costs. (Lord Henley): My right honourable friend the Secretary Sweden made a robust intervention which defended its of State has today made the following Statement. national interests in the forest sector and rejected the This is the first environment White Paper in 20 years LBA. However there was general support for all decisions and sets out how we will deliver the coalition’s commitment to be agreed by consensus and that further concessions to protect the environment for future generations, might be required. The presidency referred the draft make our economy more environmentally sustainable, decisions back to COREPER for further consideration and improve our quality of life and well-being. before the Oslo conference. It follows a consultation which elicited a huge public There were nine AOB points: response of 15,000 submissions and I am extremely Welfare of animals during transport—Sweden called grateful to all those who took the time to respond and on the Commission to consider reducing the maximum share their ideas. journey time for animals going to slaughter to eight The White Paper also responds to two major hours. The Commission explained that it’s report, due independent studies: the National Ecosystem Assessment to be published in September, would be to provide an and the Lawton report, Making Space for Nature. overview of the implementation of the existing regulation. WS 17 Written Statements[7 JUNE 2011] Written Statements WS 18

The Commission would then consider what actions record highs; intervention prices were being maintained were needed to address issues identified in that report. at current levels during the CAP health check and it Whilst a few other MSs supported Sweden, the UK was important that intervention functioned as a genuine and others emphasised that existing EU legislation safety net for producers and not as a profitable alternative should be better enforced and that sound scientific to market sales. evidence would be required to justify further legislation. Sugar production quota—Poland, with the support Animal welfare in the Baltic region—Lithuania of some MSs, called for an increase in the sugar explained that it had hosted a conference in Vilnius to production quota for all beet-producing countries to promote animal welfare in the Baltic region through offset shortfalls and high sugar prices on the EU the concept of responsible ownership. The Commission, market. Germany, the UK and Portugal argued that a conference co-organiser, added that the conference balance needed to be maintained on the EU market had highlighted the importance of education and between beet producers and cane refiners, in accordance information campaigns to promote animal welfare with the 2006 sugar reforms. The Commission felt a standards. longer term view should be maintained, noting the Codex Alimentarius negotiations—the presidency structural changes that would occur. highlighted the importance of these discussions. The Commission urged MSs to provide an adequate level EU: Competitiveness Council of participation to ensure that the EU could maintain Statement its leading role in setting international food standards. G20 update—France updated the council on the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, five-pillar action plan it had drawn up, to tackle Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness the volatility of agricultural commodity prices, for the Wilcox): My honourable friend the Minister for June meeting of G20 Agriculture Ministers. The Employment Relations, Consumers and Postal Affairs Commission would table specific proposals in reaction (Edward Davey) has today made the following statement. to the action plan which will be endorsed by the G20 The EU Competitive Council took place in Brussels Ministers in June. The importance of boosting the on 30 and 31 May 2011. transparency of the agricultural commodity market I represented the UK on EU internal market and and strengthening rules banning export restrictions industry issues on 30 May and David Willetts, Minister was emphasised by the Commission. of State for Universities and Science, represented the Current drought situation and advance of direct UK on research and space issues. payments—France, with the support from a number On the first day, the council discussed several issues of MSs called for an advance of 80 per cent of direct directly relevant to the Prime Minister’s EU growth payments and suckler cow premium to offset shortfalls initiative. It discussed the Commission’s Single Market in market receipts owing to recent droughts in northern Act and issued a set of conclusions. There was a Europe. The Commission observed that advances in robust debate, in which a number of member states, direct payments were already permissible under the including the UK, made the case for the conclusions current rules and that it would work with France for a to better reflect spring European Council language on solution on suckler cow premium. open trade, services and reducing regulatory burden. Conference on sustainable food consumption and Agreement was reached after the presidency tabled a production—the presidency introduced its report of number of compromise texts. the above conference, which had been based on the The council also agreed a position on a proposal to findings of the Standing Committee on Agricultural revise the EU’s main accounting directive. The UK Research (SCAR). The presidency concluded that SCAR welcomed the fact that this will lighten administrative would adopt a declaration on research applications burdens on small firms (those with less than 10 employees). for agricultural sustainability in June, while the I believe this is a significant agreement, and perhaps Commission noted that the future CAP would also the first example of ex-post exemption from existing need instruments to address challenges identified by EU regulation for very small companies. the SCAR. To that end, it would be establishing an An attempt to agree a proposal for a council regulation innovation partnership on agricultural research in due on a European private company was made but none course. was reached. The council also discussed the unitary Conclusions of the enlarged advisory group on patent (formerly known as the Community Patent). pigmeat—the Commission reprised the conclusions, An extra council is now scheduled for 27 June to agree noting in particular that it would address the challenges a general approach on the regulations for establishing faced by the pigmeat sector as part of the reform of a European unitary patent. the CAP. A large majority of MSs intervened to Member states agreed the council’s conclusions tabled lament the lack of immediate action. The presidency on smart regulation. While the UK continues to believe noted that delegations could continue to raise similar there is scope for much greater ambition in this area, points at the informal council on 30 May, when the we welcomed developments to lighten smaller company question of sustainable animal husbandry would be burdens and the council commitment to conduct impact discussed by Ministers. assessments on its own amendments. At the ministerial Poland’s request for a 30 per cent increase in lunchtime discussion of administrative burdens, all intervention price for cereals—Poland justified this member states supported the idea of exemptions for request on the basis of recent rises in input costs. The micro-entities and special treatment for small to medium Commission rejected the call as cereals price were at enterprises (SMEs) in upcoming regulations. WS 19 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 20

The Commission welcomed the fact that member certain public data and services”, and removal of the states have appointed so-called SME envoys to take Commission acknowledgement of the need for forward national implementation of the EU’s Small independent access to space for Europe. Business Act. Points of any other business were a report held by Malta on the Euro-Med conference on 11 May and an outline by Poland on its presidency Health: E. coli priorities. Statement On the second day of the council, Ministers received updated progress on negotiations for the Euratom The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, (European Atomic Energy Framework Community) Department of Health (Earl Howe): My right honourable Framework Programme 2012-13 legislation. UK supported friend the Secretary of State for Health (Andrew the presidency’s work to date to reach agreement on Lansley) has made the following Written Ministerial the legislation, and noted agreement would be needed Statement. shortlytoensurefinancialsecurityfortheITER(International I wish to inform the House of how the Government Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor) and JET (Joint are taking all possible measures to monitor the serious European Torus) programmes in 2012. E. coli 0104 outbreak that is centred in Germany and to assess and deal with any associated risks should any Some delegations, including the UK, suggested that arise for consumers in the UK. the presidency could aim for political agreement on the Euratom decision at the extraordinary Competitiveness Over the weekend the German authorities indicated Council on 27 June. The Commissioner provided an the potential source of the outbreak is thought to be a update at the UK’s request on a separate proposal to sprouted seed mix consisting of alfalfa seeds, fenugreek, find an additional EUR 1.3 billion from the EU lentil and azuki beans from a farm in northern Germany. budget for ITER in 2012-13. Negotiations continue in This link has been identified through epidemiological the council and European Parliament. studies, however, initial test results reported yesterday (6 June) were negative. The German authorities are Over lunch Ministers discussed links between the carrying out further tests and investigations to try to future structural and cohesion funds and the EU’s confirm the source of the outbreak. common strategic framework for research and innovation. I want to reassure the House that I am advised by All agreed that research and development funding the UK Food Standards Agency that there is no under the current structural and cohesion funds had a evidence that any of these products are present in the key role to play in building scientific capacity in Europe UK food chain. Information received to date indicates and it was generally acknowledged the successor to that all of the potentially affected produce was distributed this programme should have distinct but complementary locally in Germany and has been withdrawn from the policy objectives to the successor to the excellence-focused German market. The 11 cases of illness we have in the research framework programme. Ideally management UK apparently linked to this outbreak are all in processes between the two would be more closely people with a history of recent travel from Germany, aligned. and no new cases in the UK have been identified since The council adopted conclusions on the Eurostars Friday. and Ambient Assisted Living programmes which combine As soon as they heard of the outbreak in Germany, EU and national funding to support research and the Department of Health made sure that clinicians in development carried out by SMEs and research and the NHS were alerted to watch out for cases of this development into technology for elderly people illness and the Health Protection Agency issued advice respectively, and on European research area governance. to people travelling to Germany. The Health Protection Under any other business the Commission supplied Agency is also liaising closely with the authorities in information on the European Research Council, Artemis Germany and counterparts across Europe. and Eniac Joint Technology Initiatives, the European In addition to the 11 people who have fallen ill in Institute of Innovation and Technology plus a follow the UK there have been 2,231 reported cases in Germany up to the Green Paper on the future of EU R&D and 102 elsewhere in Europe, again associated with funding. The presidency also reported on the recent travel from Germany. The strain of E. coli associated informal Competitiveness Council in Godollo, Hungary. with this outbreak has the potential to cause life- On EU space policy the council adopted conclusions threatening illness and, unfortunately, 21 people in and agreed that Galileo satellite navigation and global Germany and one person in Sweden have died. My monitoring for environment and security programmes sympathy and condolences go to all those who have (GMES) should remain priorities. The UK supported suffered in this outbreak. the need to prioritise these programmes and welcomed The Food Standards Agency is in daily contact Commission efforts at containing costs on Galileo, with the European Commission to ensure that the calling for cost effectiveness of new EU space situational Government have the most up to date information on awareness programmes and saying the Ariane programmes the ongoing investigations into the source of the outbreak. should remain projects developed by the European The Food Standards Agency is also working closely Space Agency and not be funded by the EU. The UK with the Health Protection Agency, which is reporting also noted the potential of EU involvement in a Mars immediately any cases of illness in the UK associated sample return mission for European science and industry. with this outbreak. Both agencies are in regular contact Council conclusions were adopted with minor changes with the Department of Health, Defra and other key to the presidency’s draft, such as amendments on partners to maintain an up-to-date assessment of the GMES data policy calling for “free of charge access to risk to UK consumers. WS 21 Written Statements[7 JUNE 2011] Written Statements WS 22

I should like to assure the House that immediate NHS: Reorganisation action would be taken to alert consumers, withdraw Statement food from shops, and ban imports should the Food Standards Agency suspect that contaminated product associated with this outbreak is in the UK or may be The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, imported into the UK. In the mean time, the clear Department of Health (Earl Howe): My right honourable advice to consumers is that they should follow the friend the Secretary of State for Health (Andrew usual best practice in preparing and consuming fruit Lansley) has made the following Written Ministerial and vegetables, peeling and cooking where this is Statement. appropriate or otherwise thoroughly washing fruit On 6 April, the Government announced that they and vegetables where these are to be eaten raw. would take advantage of a natural break in the legislative People should also be reminded that washing hands process to pause, listen and reflect on the National before eating and after handling raw food is always Health Service modernisation plans and to make any advisable. necessary improvements to the Health and Social Care I will give further updates to the House on this Bill. The NHS Future Forum, a group of 45 professionals important issue as new information becomes available. from across health and social care, was established to help drive the engagement process. The eight-week intensive listening period came to its conclusion on Money-laundering 31 May. Statement In order to hear from as wide a range of people as possible throughout the pause, various methods of The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord engagement were employed. Some 250 events were Sassoon): My honourable friend the Financial Secretary held and over 8,000 people took part directly in providing has today issued the following Written Ministerial their views. These meetings and events were attended Statement. by Ministers and NHS Future Forum members, and Today the Government are publishing their response involved over 250 stakeholder organisations including to the review of the Money Laundering Regulations, patient groups, professional bodies and unions, voluntary copies of which have been placed in the Libraries of sector groups and local authorities, as well as patients the House. This includes proposals for consultation and members of the public. In addition, strategic and a request for information on the costs and benefits health authorities across the country supported the of these proposals to inform robust analysis and ensure listening exercise by encouraging staff, patients and they will make the regulations more effective and communities to share their views both online and at proportionate. This follows review by the Regulatory their own regional events. Policy Committee and approval from the Cabinet In addition to listening events, people were encouraged Reducing Regulation sub-Committee. to air their comments and concerns through digital There has been an extensive period of engagement channels. The Modernisation of Health and Care with industry, supervisors, law enforcement, business website recorded over 2,400 public posts alongside a customers, private individuals and across Government. further 970 privately submitted comments. Feedback While I have concluded that the regulations and their was also received through in excess of 500 engagement implementation are broadly effective and proportionate questionnaires. in practice, more needs to be done. The NHS Future Forum is reflecting on what they Businesses are overly focused on process and I want have heard and will be reporting to the Government to strengthen the risk-based approach provided for in shortly. The Government will then respond setting out the regulations, in order to ensure they are as effective the improvements they intend to make to the as they can be in helping to prevent and detect money modernisation plans and the Health and Social Care laundering and terrorist finance. Bill. The forum’s report will be placed in the Library. Through this response and the proposals for consultation it includes, I want to give businesses the Terrorism confidence to adopt policies and procedures that reflect Statement their own assessment of risk. To help achieve this, I am consulting on removing the criminal penalties in the regulations. Those responsible within businesses The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness should not be applying the same requirements to all Browning): My right honourable friend the Secretary customers regardless of the level of risk they present of State for the Home Department (Theresa May) has because of a fear of prison if they get it wrong. today made the following Written Ministerial Statement. In addition to proposing changes to the regulations, In accordance with Section 14(3), 14(4) and 14(5) my officials will be working to strengthen the risk-based of the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005, Lord Carlile approach in a number of other ways from the development of Berriew QC prepared a report on the operation of of global standards by the Financial Action Task the Act in 2010, which I laid before the House on Force to working with the supervisors and providing 3 February 2011. further support for industry guidance in the UK. I am grateful to Lord Carlile for this, his final The consultation closes on 30 August, after which report as Independent Reviewer of CT legislation, and changes to the regulations will be finalised and proposed, more broadly for the valuable contribution that he has with a view to them taking effect during 2012. made to this important area of work. Following WS 23 Written Statements[LORDS] Written Statements WS 24 consultation within my department and with other This is an excellent price, and fulfils commitments relevant agencies, I am today laying before the House made in Budgets 2010 and 2011 to resolve the future my response to Lord Carlile’s recommendations. of the Tote by June 2011. The Government strongly I am also laying before the House my response to believe that the terms of the sale, which include important the report on the renewal of the control order legislation commitments by Betfred both to racing and to staff, by the Joint Committee on Human Rights (published provide an excellent outcome for the key stakeholders, on 1 March 2011). and also for the taxpayer. Copies of the Government responses will be available As I said in my Statement of 31 January the in the Vote Office and a copy of each will also be Government will also honour the commitment of the placed on the Home Office website. previous Government to share 50 per cent of the net cash proceeds of the sale with Racing. This amounts to over £90 million and will be made available over a Tote number of years, reflecting the broader fiscal position Statement and the need to spend the funds in a manner consistent with EU state aid rules. The Government will pay Baroness Garden of Frognal: My honourable friend interest on the outstanding balance, as appropriate, in the Minister for Tourism and Heritage (John Penrose) the normal way. has made the following Written Ministerial Statement. The Government now look forward to working In my Written Ministerial Statement of 31 January closely with racing to discuss the detail and to design 2011 I said that the Government expected to be in a appropriate arrangements. position to provide the House with a further update in The Government expect to complete the sale after the spring on the process for resolving the future of the conclusion of a four to eight week TUPE consultation the Tote. and wider information sharing process with employees I am now able to inform the House that, after a of the Tote. The final consideration will be subject to a thorough, fair and open process, the Government technical, market standard adjustment (upwards or entered into a legally binding agreement to dispose of downwards) after completion to reflect the actual level its interest in the Tote’s successor company to Betfred of net debt and working capital on the Tote’s balance on 3 June 2011 for a total consideration of £265 million. sheet on the day the transaction completed. WA 81 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 82

that in 2008-09 and 2009-10 (the last year for which Written Answers data have been published) the rate of reportable injury in agriculture was higher than that for any other Tuesday 7 June 2011 industry and higher than the average for all industries. The latest report for 2008-09 is available at: http://www.hse. gov.uk/statistics/index.htm. The following Question should have been printed on 6 June 2011. The main causes of fatal and non-fatal injuries have remained consistent over the period 1999-00-2009-10 and include workplace transport, falls from height, struck by moving or falling objects, asphyxiation/ Re-Export Controls Bill drowning, livestock handling, machinery and trapped Question by collapsing materials; the relative ranking varying from year-to-year. Detailed analyses of fatal injuries Asked by Lord Alton of Liverpool in farming, forestry and horticulture including case summaries are published annually. The reports from To ask Her Majesty’s Government what Directorate 2002 onwards are available on HSE’s website at: http:// within the Department for Business, Innovation www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/resources/fatal.htm. and Skills has policy responsibility for the Re-Export Controls Bill. [HL9430] The industry’s occupational health record is also poor and obscured by under-reporting. As with other sectors, the statistical base is weak and provides limited The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department intelligence and the most reliable data is that published for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox): annually by HSE and the Office for National Statistics. The Europe, Trade and International Directorate within The statistics for 2007-08 and for 2008-09 (the last the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills year for which data have been published), suggest that has policy responsibility for the Re-export Controls the incidence of work related illness in agriculture is of Bill. a similar order to that for all industries. Again, the report for 2008-09 is available at: http://www.hse.gov.uk/ statistics/index.htm. Agriculture: Health and Safety Research commissioned from the Institute of Occupational Medicine (IOM) into ill health in the Questions industry, reported in 2005 and available at: http://www.hse. Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark gov.uk/research/rrhtm/rr370.htm concluded there was very little information on the prevalence or incidence To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their of occupational ill health in the industry. assessment of health and safety in the United Kingdom agriculture industry. [HL9469] Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department deaths and serious injuries have occurred in the for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): Although employment United Kingdom agriculture industry each year has been declining and there have been significant since 1995, up to the past year for which figures are structural and technological changes in agriculture in available. [HL9470] recent years, the industry’s health and safety performance has been and continues to be poor. Fatal injury statistics are the most reliable and Lord Freud: Notifications of workplace injuries are robust key health and safety performance indicator. made under RIDDOR—the Reporting of Injuries, Currently whilst it represents approximately 1.4 per cent Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations. The of the workforce, agriculture accounts for 15-20 per information available under RIDDOR includes three cent of all reported work related fatalities in Great categories of severity of injury to employees and the Britain each year. The fatal injury incidence rate is the self-employed: fatal injuries, defined major injuries highest of the main industrial sectors including and other injuries leading to more than three days construction and exceptionally includes a high proportion absence (over three day). There are two categories of of older workers and members of the public. severity for members of the public: fatal injuries and Given gross under-reporting, the figures for non-fatal non-fatal injuries that cause a person to be taken from injuries are less reliable and robust and should be the site of the accident to hospital. treated with caution. Only about 25 per cent of accidents to employees and 5 per cent involving the self-employed The tables below provide the number of injuries are reported under the Reporting of Injuries Diseases reported under RIDDOR within the agriculture industry and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 for the period 1994-95-2009-10. The annual basis of (RIDDOR); making accurate calculation of incidence RIDDOR recording is the planning year from 1 April rates and comparisons with other industries difficult. to 31 March. Data for 2009-10 are provisional, denoted The best estimate is that published annually by HSE by “p”. Figures are for Great Britain, separate reporting and the Office for National Statistics which suggest arrangements are in place for Northern Ireland. WA 83 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 84

Reported Injuries in the Agriculture Industry 1994-95—2009-10 Employment status Year Fatal injuries Major injuries Over-3-day injuries Total injuries

Employees 1994-95 14 420 1,301 1,735 1995-96 20 408 1,279 1,707 1996-97 20 678 1,457 2,155 1997-98 20 671 1,334 2,025 1998-99 16 605 1,258 1,879 1999-00 13 652 1,415 2,080 2000-01 13 595 1,372 1,980 2001-02 20 601 1,559 2,180 2002-03 16 575 1,296 1,887 2003-04 6 498 975 1,479 2004-05 16 512 909 1,437 2005-06 11 465 876 1,352 2006-07 14 438 848 1,300 2007-08 22 503 1,081 1,606 2008-09 9 528 1,159 1,696 2009-10p 17 561 1,066 1,644

Employment status Year Fatal injuries Major injuries Over-3-day injuries Total injuries

Self-employed 1994-95 32 94 100 226 1995-96 20 68 94 182 1996-97 35 100 57 192 1997-98 20 74 48 142 1998-99 30 74 40 144 1999-00 23 74 41 138 2000-01 33 60 26 119 2001-02 19 94 38 151 2002-03 20 67 24 111 2003-04 38 76 32 146 2004-05 26 74 24 124 2005-06 23 73 17 113 2006-07 22 50 15 87 2007-08 24 66 22 112 2008-09 16 71 29 116 2009-10p 21 79 30 130

Employment status Year Fatal injuries Non-fatal injuries Total injuries

Members of the public 1994-95 5 64 69 1995-96 5 59 64 1996-97 9 192 201 1997-98 11 178 189 1998-99 9 196 205 1999-00 8 192 200 2000-01 7 147 154 2001-02 2 138 140 2002-03 3 90 93 2003-04 7 39 46 2004-05 3 54 57 2005-06 8 69 77 2006-07 7 74 81 2007-08 2 102 104 2008-09 5 84 89 2009-10p 7 79 86

Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark Lord Freud: Nine workers (employed or self-employed) were killed between 1999-00 and 2008-09 in accidents To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action involving overhead power lines during agricultural are they taking to reduce the number of accidents work. No fatal injuries were reported in 2009-10 (the on farms caused by machinery coming into contact with or getting too close to overhead power lines. last year for which published figures are available). [HL9471] Given gross under-reporting under the Reporting of WA 85 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 86

Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences 1995, Airports: Holding Rooms figures for the number of non-fatal injuries to workers or the public are unreliable. Question The HSE has published clear guidance on the topic Asked by Baroness Stern including specific advice in the form of Agriculture Information Sheet 8 Working safely near overhead To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans power lines, and booklet INDG389 Shock Horror: they have to provide short-term holding facility Safe working near overhead power lines in agriculture. offering overnight accommodation at Heathrow Airport The advice is also published in the general guidance to accommodate detainees who arrive on late afternoon booklet INDG427 Farmwise: Your essential guide to or evening flights and who are currently held overnight health and safety in agriculture. in holding rooms. [HL9118] The guidance contains practical advice on planning the work, the selection and use of appropriate machinery The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness and equipment, control measures, training and dealing Browning): It is logistically challenging to provide a with emergencies. It is readily available in hard copy residential short-term holding facility within Heathrow from HSE Books and can be accessed online at: http:// Airport in a way that is practical and affordable. www.hse.gov.uk/agriculture/topics/electricity.htm. The UK Border Agency has, however, made 20 beds Further information is also available from the Energy available at the nearby Colnbrook Immigration Removal Networks Association at: www.energynetworks.org and Centre and Cayley House at the airport offers improved from the distribution network operators (electricity overnight facilities for detainees in the holding rooms, supply companies). including showers. The escorting service provider will facilitate overnight moves to this accommodation where Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark possible. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action The welfare of detainees remains a high priority for they propose to take to ensure that all farm equipment the Agency. that needs examination under the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations 1998 and the Armed Forces: Military Bands Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations 1998 receives a thorough examination. [HL9512] Question Asked by Lord Moonie Lord Freud: The legal requirement for farm equipment To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many to be inspected or examined under the regulations falls full-time military bands each of the Royal Navy to duty holders who include employers, self-employed and Royal Marines, Army, and Royal Air Force persons and people in control of work equipment maintains. [HL9546] and/or lifting operations. The HSE has published clear advice on the application The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of the regulations to the agriculture industry in the form of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever): There are six bands of Agriculture Information Sheet (AIS) 27 PUWER 98: of the Royal Marines who also conduct ceremonial How the Regulations apply to agriculture and forestry services for the Royal Navy, the Army has 23 regular and AIS 28 LOLER: How the Regulations apply to bands, and the Royal Air Force has three. agriculture. Free-to-download, web-friendly versions of the Armed Forces: Public Briefings information sheets are available from the HSE website Questions at: www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais27.pdf and www.hse.gov.uk/ pubns/ais28.pdf. Asked by Lord Moonie To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many people attended public briefings by the Royal Air Airports: Body Scanners Force presentation team last year; and what is the Question forecast for this year. [HL9543]

Asked by Lord Krebs The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever): From September assessment of the evidence from independent tests 2010 to date 6,752 people have attended public briefings of the safety of X-ray airport passenger scanners. by the RAF presentation team. Before September [HL9230] 2010 exact numbers were not recorded, but it is estimated that an average of around 7,000 members of the public attended presentations each year. It is anticipated Earl Attlee: The risks from the scanners have been that this figure will be exceeded for the current year. assessed by many independent international bodies, Asked by Lord Moonie including the UK Health Protection Agency. Tests have concluded that the dose received from being To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many scanned is far below the allowed levels in the UK. In people attended public briefings by the Army fact it is less than that received from natural sources in presentation team last year; and what is the forecast under two minutes at airline cruising altitude. for this year. [HL9544] WA 87 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 88

Lord Astor of Hever: The Army presentation team Asylum Seekers briefed a total of 12,832 people nationwide in financial year 2010-11. It is forecast to brief between 11,500 and Questions 13,700 people during financial year 2011-12. Asked by Lord Laird Asked by Lord Moonie To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many intend to recommence normal procedures in dealing people attended public briefings by the Royal Navy with asylum applications and returns to Greece if presentation team last year; and what is the forecast the decision of the European Court of Human for this year. [HL9545] Rights on returning asylum seekers there is that there is no breach of Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights; and how they are Lord Astor of Hever: The Royal Navy presentation addressing the decision of the Court of Justice of team briefed a total of 6,340 people in the last financial the European Union on the matter. [HL9533] year 2010-11. It is forecast to brief approximately 8,600 during financial year 2011-12. The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Browning): The UK suspended the removal of asylum Armed Forces: Stationing seekers to Greece under the Dublin Regulation on Question 20 September 2010. The decision to suspend removals was taken pending the outcome of the case of NS Asked by Lord Laird referred to the Court of Justice of the European To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Union by the Court of Appeal. The UK has provided will consider a policy of stationing regiments of the written observations in the case of NS and others to Army near or in areas after which they are named the Court of Justice and we await further information and from which most recruits come. [HL9628] on how that Court intends to proceed. Subsequently on 21 January 2011, the European The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry Court of Human Rights ruled in the case of MSS v of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever): There are a number Belgium and Greece that Greece had violated Article of factors which influence the selection of locations three of the European Convention on Human Rights for Army bases. These include estate availability, that prohibits inhuman or degrading treatment or access to training areas, unit cohesion and integration punishment both because of the applicant’s living with local communities. Regional connections and conditions in Greece and the failure by the Greek representation are also taken into account, where authorities to properly consider his asylum claim. The appropriate. Government accept that these findings prevent the return of asylum seekers to Greece under the Dublin Regulation until the situation there has improved. Arts: Funding Asked by Lord Laird Question To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Asked by Lord Sheldon deportations to European Union countries occurred last year; to which countries; how many were of To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the asylum seekers; how many were for other reasons; total public subsidy paid to theatres in England in and what were those reasons. [HL9534] the past three years. [HL9281]

Baroness Rawlings: Arts Council England has provided The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness the following breakdown of the source of public sector Browning): It is UK Border Agency policy not to support for theatres over the last three available years: disclose information on deportations to specific countries as this could jeopardise our diplomatic relations. 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 Deportations are a specific subset of removals which Type of funding £000 £000 £000 are enforced either following a criminal conviction or when it is judged that a person’s removal from the UK Regularly Funded 101,401 107,225 117,358 Organisations Arts is conducive to the public good. Failed asylum seekers Regularly Funded 26,997 30,046 29,644 are normally removed administratively and not deported Organisations Local from the UK. As such, no breakdown on deported authority and other asylum seekers is available. public subsidy Last year, the UK Border Agency removed or deported Grants for the arts 8,109 8,601 9,251 (excluding Regularly 5,235 foreign national offenders from the UK. Funded Approximately 15 per cent of these were nationals Organisations) from within the European Economic Area. Sustain (excluding N/A N/A 725 The only “other” reasons for a deportation would Regularly Funded Organisations) be on the basis on not being conducive to the public good. No individuals were deported last year on that Total 136,507 145,872 156,978 basis. WA 89 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 90

Audit Commission To ask Her Majesty’s Government what were the levels of the tricresyl phosphate isomer known as Questions mono-ortho-cresyl phosphate detected in aircraft Asked by Lord Beecham cabins by the recent Cranfield University research To ask Her Majesty’s Government on what basis study into cabin air quality; and what technology the Department for Communities and Local was used to monitor for this specific isomer. Government made a provision of £56 million in its [HL9573] 2011–12 business plan towards the costs of abolishing To ask Her Majesty’s Government what specific the Audit Commission. [HL9321] scientific studies they have taken into account in To ask Her Majesty’s Government what will be developing their position on the inhalation of heated the cost of abolishing the Audit Commission. synthetic jet engine oil fumes. [HL9574] [HL9322] To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they will address the potential safety hazard to airline passengers The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department and crew shown by the Cranfield University research for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): into cabin air quality where crews were reported to This £56 million figure, which was previously published be failing to use emergency oxygen during possible in Her Majesty’s Treasury’s Main Estimates, represents contaminated air events. [HL9622] provision made in the department’s budget for one-off costs that could potentially result from the closure of To ask Her Majesty’s Government which the Audit Commission. These costs might include government body or individual is responsible for redundancies, the termination of contracts and leases informing aircraft passengers when a contaminated and any pension liabilities. air event may have or has occurred. [HL9623] However, the actual costs incurred will depend on a To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment range of factors, including the way in which the work the Committee on Toxicity have made of the effects of the commission’s in-house practice is transferred of inhalation of tricresyl phosphate (TCP) on human to the private sector. My department has appointed blood proteins; and whether any scientific studies independent financial advisers to identify the most have shown reproductive system changes as a result cost effective options for such a transfer. Further of exposure to TCP. [HL9625] information about the advisers’ work can be found at http://www.communities.gov.uk/newsstories/ To ask Her Majesty’s Government how the localgovernment/1889672. Committee on Toxicity determine the dose of a toxic chemical when its vapour is inhaled in an Aviation: Air Quality enclosed space such as an aeroplane cabin or flight deck over a period of several hours. [HL9626] Questions Asked by The Countess of Mar Earl Attlee: I refer the noble Countess to the Written To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Statement made on 10 May 2011 (Official Report, have reviewed the findings of Dr Susan Michael is col. WS 37). entitled Health and Flight Safety Implications from The information available has been published in the Exposure to Contaminated Air in Aircraft; and what Cranfield University report. The next step is for the were their conclusions. [HL9569] research studies, which the Department for Transport To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are the has commissioned, to be referred to the Committee on individual concentrations of the toxic isomers MOCP, Toxicity. This will be done once the final study—swab DOCP and TOCP (mono-ortho-cresyl phosphate, test research—has been completed by the Institute of di- and tri-) present in the tricresyl phosphate Occupational Medicine in Edinburgh. preparation specifically used in synthetic jet engine oils. [HL9570] To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether their Aviation: Electrical Equipment research indicates that exposure of a developing Question foetus or baby to the tricresyl phosphate isomer known as tri-ortho-cresyl phosphate (TOCP) is Asked by Lord Laird harmless; and what exposure standards they recommend be applied to pregnant bystanders. To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to [HL9571] the Written Answer by Earl Attlee on 17 May (WA 290–1) on the use of electrical equipment on To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light aircraft, which person or body is responsible for of the findings of the recent Cranfield University deciding if the equipment could adversely affect the research into cabin air quality and of the Written aircraft. [HL9390] Answer by the Minister for the Armed Forces, Mr Doug Henderson, on 4 February 1999 (Official Report, Commons, col. 737W), what advice they Earl Attlee: The Civil Aviation Authority provides have issued as to how the travelling public should advice to UK operators on the possible effects of be protected from tricresyl phosphate (TCP) exposures; portable electronic equipment on aircraft systems but and whether they will encourage the fitting of TCP it is for individual operators to determine whether to detection systems in aircraft. [HL9572] permit the use of specific equipment. WA 91 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 92

Banking: Bonuses and the banks are required to issue a report at least annually, starting in 2011 in respect of the 2010-11 Question financial year. Asked by Lord Laird To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment Banking: Money Supply they have made of the amount of money paid in the Question last year in bonuses to staff of banks in which they have an interest; and how much was that amount. Asked by Lord Empey [HL9507] To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the increase in the money supply in financial years The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord 2008–09, 2009–10, and 2010–11; and what increases Sassoon): UK Financial Investments (UKFI) manages they estimate for 2011–12 and 2012–13. [HL9529] the Government’s investments in financial institutions on an arm’s length and commercial basis. UKFI engaged in discussions with Lloyds Banking Group and the The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Royal Bank of Scotland on their approach to Sassoon): The Bank of England provides data on remuneration. UKFI voted in favour of all resolutions money supply in its statistical release entitled Sectoral in banks where it was eligible to do so, including on breakdown of aggregate M4 and M4 Lending. remuneration. The Bank of England reports broad money supply The Financial Services Authority introduced a growth excluding the impact of intermediate non-bank remuneration disclosure regime requiring banks to financial institutions (referred to as Other Financials issue a report containing qualitative information on Corporations (OFCs)). pay policies and detailed aggregate quantitative Using this preferred measure, broad money M4 growth information on the remuneration paid to significant risk since the second quarter of 2008 is as shown in the takers. The new rules came into force on 1 January 2011 table below.

2008 2008 2008 2009 2009 2009 2009 2010 2010 2010 2010 2011 M4-Inter OFCS Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 Q1

Annual Growth Rate (%) 6.6 4.3 3.7 4.4 3.1 1.9 1.0 0.8 1.0 1.9 2.5 1.5

The Bank of England does not publish forecasts of The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord money supply growth. Sassoon): On 9 February 2011 the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced a new commitment by the UK’s biggest high street banks on lending expectations and Banking: Royal Bank of Scotland capacity. As part of this commitment, the banks will Question make available appropriate capital and resources to support £190 billion of new credit to businesses in Asked by Lord Myners 2011, up from £179 billion in 2010. If demand exceeds To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the this, the banks will lend more, including creating the authors of the report commissioned by the Financial balance sheet capacity necessary to do so. £76 billion Services Authority into the collapse of Royal Bank of this lending capacity will be available to small and of Scotland formally interviewed the current and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs). This is a 15 per immediate past chairmen and chief executives of cent increase on 2010 lending of £66 billion. the Royal Bank of Scotland and the current chairman and chief executive of the Financial Services Authority. [HL9523] The Bank of England reported the banks’ first quarter performance against the Merlin commitment The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord on 23 May. The banks lent an aggregate total of Sassoon): The preparation of the report, including £47.3 billion in the quarter ended 31 March 2011, those interviewed, is a matter for the Financial Services of which £16.8 billion was lent to SMEs. The Government Authority as independent regulator. are encouraged that the banks are broadly on track to meet their overall commitment, but believes the banks Banks: Lending must do more to lend to SMEs. Question Asked by Lord Laird Lloyds Banking Group and the Royal Bank of To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment Scotland recently announced their first quarter lending they have made of the amount of money lent to performance in their Interim Results. Lloyds lent small and medium-sized enterprises in the first £10.3 billion to businesses, of which £3.3 billion was three months of this year by banks in which they lent to SMEs; and RBS lent £15 billion to businesses, have an interest. [HL9506] of which £6.7 billion was lent to SMEs. WA 93 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 94

Benefits so elected. This would boost her Category A pension entitlement, which may be combined with any Category B Questions basic pension entitlement as explained above. Asked by Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Notes: 1. Women have not been able to make the reduced rate To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, as a election since 12 May 1977. However, women who were already result of paying reduced national insurance paying the reduced rate at this point were allowed to continue contributions while working, some women’s benefit their election and pay reduced rates. entitlements are capped at amounts not related to 2. The election would lapse: their contributions; and whether such women are if, since 6 April 1978, there were two consecutive years during able to top up their contributions in order to receive which no Class 1 contributions were paid (or treated as paid), and the woman was increased benefits. [HL9505] not self-employed if the marriage was ended through divorce or annulment at the end of the tax year in which the woman’s widow’s bereavement benefit ended The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department if the woman chose to cancel it. for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): National insurance Asked by Baroness Lister of Burtersett (NI) contributions paid at the married woman’s or widow’s reduced rate do not generate entitlement to To ask Her Majesty’s Government what would Category A pension. However, a married woman can be the effect on the gross and net fiscal savings of qualify for a Category B basic pension, currently payable time-limiting contributory Employment and Support at a maximum rate of £61.20, derived from her husband’s Allowance for those in the Work-Related Activity NI contributions from the point both she and her Group, if the time limit proposed in the Welfare husband have reached pension age. Similarly a widow Reform Bill were applied after (a) two, (b) five, or can qualify for a Category B basic pension, currently (c) ten years instead of the proposed one year; and, payable at a maximum rate of £102.15, derived from in each case, what is their estimate of how many her late husband’s NI contributions. recipients would be affected by the time limit. [HL9567] Where a woman has entitlement to both Category B basic pension and Category A basic pension (built Lord Freud: As part of the Welfare Reform Bill we up either before or after paying NI contributions at have set out our intention to introduce a time limit of the reduced rate) both pensions are payable subject to one year for those claiming contributory employment the combined total not exceeding the maximum rate and support allowance (ESA) and who are placed in of Category B pension for an appropriate married the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG). The intention woman or a widow. In the event that a woman’s is that the time limit would apply after one year Category A basic pension entitlement is equal to or duration on contributory ESA. In total the policy is higher than the relevant maximum rate of Category B expected to generate annual savings of around £400 million pension, only her Category A basic pension entitlement in 2012-13 rising to £1.1 billion by 2014-15. is payable. If the proposal were to change so that the time limit A woman cannot pay voluntary Class 2 or 3 NI was extended to two or five years, this would reduce contributions for years in respect of which she has the expected benefit savings as shown in the tables elected to pay NI at the reduced rate. However, she below. It is not possible to model the effect of a may, subject to time limits, be eligible to pay voluntary 10-year time limit since our internal modelling projections contributions for years in respect of which she has not do not extend this far.

Two year time limit 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 2015-16 2016-17

Estimated savings from 12 month time limit 420 780 1,090 1,330 1,380 (£m) Estimated savings from 2 year time limit 150 360 670 970 1,230 (£m) Change to estimated savings (£millions) -270 -420 -420 -360 -140 % change from 12 month time limit 64% 54% 39% 27% 10% Estimate of the total numbers affected by 100,000 200,000 350,000 500,000 600,000 time limiting Five year time limit 2012/13 2013/14 2014/15 2015/16 2016/17 Estimated savings from 12 month time limit 420 780 1,090 1,330 1,380 (£m) Estimated savings from 5 year time limit 0 10 50 110 280 (£m) Change to estimated savings (£millions) -420 -770 -1040 -1220 -1100 % change from 12 month time limit -100% -99% -96% -92% -80% Estimate of the total numbers affected by 0 0 20,000 60,000 130,000 time limiting

Figures are in cash terms, and are for Great Britain. They are rounded to the nearest £10 million or 10,000 claimants. WA 95 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 96

Asked by Baroness Lister of Burtersett the Work Related Activity Group (WRAG). The intention is that time spent in the assessment phase will count To ask Her Majesty’s Government what would towards the 365 day period of the time limit. In total be the effect on the gross and net fiscal savings and the policy is expected to generate annual savings of on the number of recipients affected, if the initial £400 million in 2012-13 rising to £1.1 billion by 2014-15. 13-week assessment period were excluded from the calculation of the proposed one-year time limit on If the proposal were to change so that the time limit contributory Employment and Support Allowance period is extended by 13 weeks for all claimants affected, proposed in the Welfare Reform Bill. [HL9568] this would reduce the expected benefit savings. The table below shows the expected change in the Lord Freud: As part of the Welfare Reform Bill we annual net savings if the length of the time limit was have set out our intention to introduce a time limit of increased by 13 weeks. It shows estimated overall costs one year for those claiming contributory employment to the Exchequer of around £100 million per year and support allowance (ESA) and who are placed in from 2012-13 to 2014-15.

2012/13 2013/14 2014/15 2015/16 2016117

Estimated savings 420 780 1,090 1,330 1,380 from current policy (£m) Change to estimated -100 -110 -120 -60 -40 savings (£millions) % change from -24% -15% -11% -5% -3% current policy Change in the total -50,000 -60,000 -60,000 -30,000 -20,000 numbers affected by time limiting

Figures are in cash terms, and are for Great Britain. They are Compensation Authority; and how many members rounded to the nearest £10 million or 10,000 claimants. of staff are given each level of medical and dental insurance. [HL9488] Charter of Fundamental Rights To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much of Question the £3.1 million spent on medical and dental fees in 2009–10 by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon Authority was accounted for by medical and dental To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to insurance for employees. [HL9489] the Written Statement by Lord Howell of Guildford on 19 May (WS 94) concerning the European Union The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Foreign Affairs and General Affairs Council held McNally): CICA does not provide medical or dental on 23 May, what effect the proposal by the European insurance for its staff. Commission on action to secure compliance with the Charter of Fundamental Rights will have on the United Kingdom. [HL9453] Digital Economy Act 2010 Question The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord McNally): The Charter of Fundamental Rights does Asked by Lord Whitty no more than restate the rights and principles that already applied in the European Union before the To ask Her Majesty’s Government what conclusions Lisbon Treaty came into force. It confers no new Ofcom and the Department for Culture, Media and rights, and does not give the Commission any new Sport have come to on the practicability of measures powers. As the Government already seek to ensure regarding filesharing under the Digital Economy that the rights restated in the charter are respected in Act 2010. [HL9350] the United Kingdom when it is implementing European law, no new action is envisaged in response to the Baroness Rawlings: Implementation of the online proposal. copyright infringement measures in the Digital Economy Act remains, in our view, the most proportionate and practical way to tackle widespread infringement of Criminal Injuries Compensation copyright online. The judgment from the recent judicial Authority: Staff review, which agreed that the Government’s approach Questions was a more efficient, focused and fair system than the current arrangements, will require changes to our Asked by Lord Stevens of Ludgate original proposal on how costs are shared and we are To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are the currently considering the changes which will need to different levels of medical and dental insurance be made to the cost-sharing statutory instrument in provided for employees of the Criminal Injuries light of this. Once we are clear on what changes need WA 97 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 98 to be made both the statutory instrument and the 2008-09 draft code will need to be notified to the European http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/ Commission under the Technical Standards Directive. housing/xls/dfgallocations2008-09.xls Separately, the Government commissioned a report by Ofcom into the workability of Sections 17 and 18 of the Act. That report is due to be delivered shortly. The Education Department for Culture, Media and Sport will set out Question what action we plan to take as soon as we have had an opportunity to consider the report and all other relevant Asked by Lord Lucas factors. To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the advice given by York City Council Disabled People: Grants on the duty of local education authorities to ensure that children of school age are receiving suitable Question education; and what action they intend to take. Asked by Baroness King of Bow [HL9575] To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for funding was made available for Disabled Facilities Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): York City Council is Grants in each local authority in London in each of responsible for any advice it gives about its duties the past four years. [HL9444] relating to children of school age receiving a suitable education. We have looked at the information for parents published on the Council’s website and will be The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, seeking clarification of some issues. Department for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): The links below from the Department for Communities and Local Government website provide Education: Classics details of the allocations for Disabled Facilities Grant Questions made available in each local authority in London in each of the past four years. Asked by Lord Patten 2011-12 To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/ colleges and universities offered a postgraduate housing/xls/1856287.xls certificate of education in classics in England in 2010-11 each year since 1990; and which they were.[HL9491] http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for housing/xls/1527188.xls Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): The available information 2009-10 is given in the table and shows mainstream providers http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/ offering postgraduate initial teacher training courses housing/xls/grantallocations2009-10.xls specialising in classics since 1998-99.

Number of postgraduate initial teacher training courses in classics offered by mainstream providers Years: 1998-99 to 2011-12 England 1998-99 1999-00 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12

Total 44443332323432 University of 11111111111111 Cambridge Centre for 11110000000000 British Teachers University of 00000000101110 Gloucestershire King’s College 11111111111111 London St Mary’s 11111110000000 University College University of 00000000000100 Buckingham

Source: TDA ’s ITT Trainee Number Census and Performance education (PGCE) of all PGCEs completed in English Profiles colleges and universities in each of the years since 1990. [HL9492] Asked by Lord Patten

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the Lord Hill of Oareford: The available information is percentage of classics postgraduate certificates of given in the table. WA 99 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 100

Teachers gaining qualified teacher status via postgraduate college Lord Shutt of Greetland: The Northern Ireland based courses Office does not hold copies of the electoral register for 1998-99 to 2008-09 any constituency in Northern Ireland. The Chief Electoral England Officer for Northern Ireland is responsible for maintaining Primary the electoral register there and the Noble Lord may and of which, of which Secondary Secondary number, Classics % wish to make enquiries relating to the register to the Chief Electoral Officer directly. 1998-99 15,164 10,639 40 0.4% 1999-00 14,846 10,323 23 0.2% Elections: Voting System 2000-01 16,153 10,655 34 0.3% 2001-02 16,940 11,330 31 0.3% Question 2002-03 19,177 12,382 33 0.3% Asked by Lord Teverson 2003-04 21,460 13,876 33 0.2% To ask Her Majesty’s Government what 2004-05 21,784 13,648 32 0.2% investigations they have undertaken to assess the 2005-06 21,599 13,600 26 0.2% level of multiple voting by electors registered at one 2006-07 21,078 13,167 27 0.2% or more addresses in the alternative vote referendum. 2007-08 20,262 12,344 27 0.2% [HL9477] 2008-09 20,270 12,304 24 0.2% Source: TDA s Performance Profiles The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord 1. Includes universities and other higher education institutions, McNally): An individual may be registered at more SCITT and Open University as well as Bradford FE College, but than one address if it appears to the electoral registration excludes employment based routes. officer for the local authority area in which each 2. The percentage of teachers gaining QTS specialising in address is located that they are resident in that area. classics is based on the secondary total, and excludes those However, it is an offence for a person to vote twice in a gaining QTS via primary initial teacher training. general or European Parliamentary election, or a national referendum. Asked by Lord Patten The Electoral Commission and the Association of To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Chief Police Officers collected data on the allegations have made estimates of the numbers of teachers of electoral malpractice which were reported to the taking a Postgraduate Certificate of Education in police at the referendum on the voting system and will Classics in England for future years; and, if so, publish their findings in due course. The Government what are those estimates. [HL9493] will consider any recommendations which emerge from this analysis and will continue to keep procedures Lord Hill of Oareford: For 2011-12 academic year, under review to ensure that the electoral process is 25 Classics postgraduate initial teacher training places secure. have been allocated to mainstream providers in England. An estimate for the number of postgraduate Classics Energy: Biofuels places in mainstream providers for 2012-13 and beyond is not currently available. Questions Asked by Lord Bradshaw Egypt and Tunisia To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Lord Sassoon on 26 April Question (WA 36), what is their assessment of the replacement Asked by Lord Hylton of the tax differential on fuel duty proposed for To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether 2012 with a certificate trading scheme, given that assistance provided in 2011 to (a) Tunisia, and (b) these certificates recently traded at £0 due to the Egypt, has yet produced economic effect; and, if import of subsidised bioethanol from the United not, when it may be expected to do so. [HL9556] States; and whether this change will provide sufficient incentive for market investment. [HL8932] Baroness Verma: On 26 May, the Prime Minister To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to announced £110 million of assistance to support countries the Written Answer by Lord Sassoon on 26 April in North Africa and the wider region, though the (WA 36), given the minimal value of traded renewable Arab Partnership. This includes £5 million allocated transport fuel certificates (RTFCs), what effect they prior to the Arab Spring. Programming is in its infancy. expect that doubling the value of RTFCs will have Results measures will be built into all programmes. on investors who wish to continue or develop their businesses. [HL8934]

Elections: Commonwealth Citizens Earl Attlee: As part of the Government’s measures Question to address climate change, the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation (RTFO) ensures a growing proportion Asked by Lord Laird of UK road transport fuels is from sustainable To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many renewable sources. The RTFO includes a certificate Commonwealth citizens are entitled to vote in Northern trading mechanism to increase the efficiency of Ireland in each constituency; and in which types of compliance. The value of individual certificates is elections. [HL9536] determined by the market. WA 101 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 102

The value of renewable transport fuel certificates The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department (RTFCs) was close to zero during the first year of the for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): The Health and RTFO. There is evidence that the value of certificates Safety at Work etc Act 1974 (HSWA) places a general was affected by a discrepancy in the Renewable Transport duty on nuclear site operators to ensure the competency Fuel Order which caused a reduction in demand and of their staff and the provision of appropriate training. price of RTFCs. The 2009 amendment to the order In addition there are specific provisions under the corrected this discrepancy. Since 2009 RTFCs have nuclear installations licensing regime requiring suitable traded at a price. training for all those who have responsibility for any Throughout year two certificates traded at between operations which may affect safety. These provisions 6 and 12 pence per certificate. Data available for the further require that only suitably qualified and experienced third obligation period indicates that certificates have persons perform any duties which may affect the safety traded at between 15 and 24 pence per certificate to of operations on the site. date. Certificates trading for year three may continue Inspectors of the Office for Nuclear Regulation until September 2011. (ONR) inspect for compliance with these requirements The Department for Transport therefore considers as part of the regulator’s comprehensive inspection that awarding two RTFCs per litre of biofuels from programmes for nuclear installations. Reports on those waste, residues and lignocellulosic material will provide inspections are published on the ONR Internet site. incentives for investment, whilst allowing obligated businesses the flexibility to choose the most cost effective Enterprise Zones route to compliance. Question Energy: Gas Asked by Lord Empey To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their Question timetable for the introduction of enterprise zones. Asked by Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke [HL9383] To ask Her Majesty’s Government how the United Kingdom’s level of gas reserves compares with The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department those of (a) the United States, (b) France, and for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): (c) Germany. [HL9486] At Budget, the Government invited 11 local enterprise partnerships to come forward with proposals for enterprise The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department zones, and announced that a further 10 would be of Energy and Climate Change (Lord Marland): Storage sought from open competition. is one of a number of balancing tools available to the Government sought expressions of interest to the UK market. These are: on the supply side, indigenous open competition by the end of April. The deadline production, import flows, and storage; and, on the for full bids closes 30 June. An announcement of the demand side, demand-side response, primarily from 10 successful bids will be in the summer. the power generation sector. The level and flexibility afforded by each of these tools varies from country to EU: Economic Governance country. The UK gas market is well served by all of them. In addition, market arrangements also have an Question impact on the level of storage capacity required, and Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon prices in UK’s large and liquid spot market provide a To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to goodsignalfortightnessinsupplyanddemandfundamentals. the Written Statement by Lord Sassoon on 30 March The table below provides data for aggregate storage (WS 93–4) concerning the Ecofin meeting on 15 March, capacity, consumption, production and imports for whether the package of six legislative proposals or the UK, US, France and Germany. The data come any one of them aimed at strengthening economic from the International Energy Agency (IEA). governance in the European Union will transfer any new powers from the United Kingdom to the Bent Storage European Union institutions; and whether the United (2009) Capacity Consumption Production Imports Kingdom can withdraw from the arrangements at US 121.1 647.0 594.0 105.8 any time of their choosing. Germany 19.9 92.6 14.5 94.6 [HL9561] France 12.5 44.5 0.9 47.0 UK 4.3 90.8 62.5 41.2 The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon): The Government support measures to improve fiscal discipline within the European Union as a whole Energy: Nuclear Industry and, particularly, within the euro area. We therefore Question support the proposed legislation which aims to strengthen economic governance. Asked by Baroness Smith of Basildon The draft legislation does not transfer powers from To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment the United Kingdom to EU institutions. The Government they have made of the training in health and safety have made a clear commitment that any proposals issues for those working in the nuclear industry. that would transfer power from the UK to the EU [HL9381] would be subject to a referendum in the UK. WA 103 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 104

Except for the cases where the UK has a specific that are currently unresolved. We are working with the opt out or exemption, a EU legislation is binding on European Commission to resolve the outstanding cases. the United Kingdom. The titles of the reasoned opinion cases are in the public domain and are listed below. However, the titles EU: Financial Support of the pilot and Article 258 cases are not in the public Question domain and correspondence between the European Commission and the member states at these stages of Asked by Lord Davies of Stamford the cases is generally regarded by both parties as To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their confidential between them. estimate of the total gross external liabilities of the banking systems of (a) Greece, (b) Portugal, and Directive number Subject (c) the Republic of Ireland; and what is their estimate 2009/149/EC Common Safety Indicators and of the proportion of those that are held by depositors Common Methods to Calculate or investors (1) elsewhere in the European Union as Accident Costs a whole, (2) elsewhere in the Eurozone as a whole, - Discrimination on the basis of and (3) in the United Kingdom. [HL9519] nationality regarding pay of seafarers The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord 2008/110/EC Directive on safety on the Sassoon): The Bank for International Settlements publishes Community railways data on the external liabilities of European banking 2009/16/EC Port State Control systems. More detailed breakdowns have been made available by the central banks of Greece, Portugal and Ireland. European Arrest Warrant They can be found at the following websites: Question Bank for International Settlements—www.bis.org Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark Bank of Greece—www.bankofgreece.gr To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Bank of Portugal—www.bportugal.pt times they have had someone returned to the United Central Bank of Ireland—www.centralbank.ie Kingdom using the European Arrest Warrant since its inception. [HL9514] EU: Taxation Question The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Browning): The Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA) Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon and Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (for To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to Scotland) are the designated authorities in the UK the Written Statement by Lord Sassoon on 19 May responsible for processing European Arrest Warrants (WS 87) concerning the meeting of Ecofin on 17 May, (EAWs). whether they will give details of the proposal to The following table shows the number of surrenders strengthen the European Union’s directive on the under the EAW to the UK since the inception of the taxation of savings interest; and whether the proposal EAW in 2004. would constitute European Union intervention in The data for the financial year 2010/11 is currently matters of United Kingdom direct taxation. being verified and will be published in the SOCA [HL9562] Annual Report in July 2011. The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord NUMBER OF SURRENDERS Sassoon): The savings taxation directive provides for YEAR TO THE UK the automatic exchange of information between member states to ensure that tax on savings interest is paid in 2010 (01.01.2010 -31.03.2010) 14 the member state where it is due. The proposal to 2009 80 strengthen the directive would extend its scope to cover 2008 96 a wider range of savings income. Its aim is to combat 2007 99 cross-border tax evasion and help member states protect 2006 76 their tax systems. The Government support the proposal. 2005 63 2004 19 EU: Transport Total 447 Question Asked by Lord Berkeley European Union To ask Her Majesty’s Government which reasoned Question opinions, pilots or infraction proceedings from the Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon European Commission assigned to the Department for Transport are currently unresolved. [HL9464] To ask Her Majesty’s Government why they made five separate Written Statements concerning Earl Attlee: There are four reasoned opinions, six the European Union on 19 May; and whether they pilot cases, and 11 letters of formal notice under consider the impact of the European Union on United Article 258 assigned to the Department for Transport Kingdom policy making is growing. [HL9456] WA 105 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 106

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth The Financial Stability Board has carried out analysis Office (Lord Howell of Guildford): The purpose of of the Exchange Traded Funds market at the request Written Statements is to make announcements and of its members. The UK is a member of the Financial provide information to the House in a clear and accessible Stability Board and is supportive of further analysis in way. On that basis, this Government consider that it is this area. useful and appropriate to make separate Statements on each council. The subjects of the Written Statements Government Departments: Consultants were: Question Economic and Financial Affairs Council (ECOFIN); Asked by Lord Bradshaw Education, Youth, Culture and Sport Council; Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Affairs Council; individuals who left the employment of the Department for Transport between 2007 and 2011 have been Foreign Affairs Council and General Affairs Council; employed as consultants by the department in 2009–10 and and 2010–11. [HL8967] Justice and Home Affairs Council. The Government conduct and publish impact Earl Attlee: Within the Department for Transport assessments for legislation implementing EU measures, (Central) and its seven executive agencies, five individuals which apply the same impact assessment rigour as for who left employment between 1 January 2007 and domestic legislation. The Government also address 31 March 2011 were then employed as consultants by the potential impact of EU measures through their the department. commitment to engage with the European Commission The five individuals were employed as consultants before it has adopted proposals, in order to increase in 2009-10; three of the individuals continued to be UK influence on the drafting of EU legislation. employed as consultants in 2010-11. Home Responsibilities Protection Gambling: Horseracing Question Question Asked by Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Asked by Baroness Trumpington To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they married women who chose to pay reduced national intend to appoint an independent arbitrator to insurance contributions while working and did not ensure that all of the United Kingdom racecourse change this when they stopped earning have been owners and racecourse bookmakers resolve their unable to benefit from home responsibilities protection. disputes on pitch tenures before the August 2012 [HL9504] deadline. [HL9581] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): It is estimated Baroness Garden of Frognal: The Government have that around 100,000 women who were aged 60 or over no plans to appoint an independent arbitrator to in Great Britain at the end of 2008-09, the latest year resolve this issue at present. An agreement in principle for which data are available, did not qualify for home was reached in 2009 and discussions between the responsibilities protection that could improve their racecourse owners and bookmakers have continued, own basic state pension entitlement for one or more with several having agreed terms. The Minister for years solely because they had ceased earning above the Tourism and Heritage at the Department for Culture, lower earnings limit for national insurance contributions Media and Sport is encouraging the courses yet to and their elections to pay national insurance contributions agree terms to do so as soon as possible. He is following at the married woman’s and widow’s reduced rate had their progress closely and has indicated that all options not yet terminated. In total there were 7,360,000 women remain open to him if agreement is not reached. aged 60 and over at the end of 2008-09 in Great Britain. Source: Lifetime Labour Market Database 2, 2008/09 and 2008-based national population projections, Office for National Statistics Gold Bullion Notes: Question 1. The estimate from the Lifetime Labour Market database has been rounded to the nearest 10,000 women and is for Great Asked by Lord Myners Britain cases only. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they 2. The estimate excludes those women who would still fail the have reviewed the systemic risk posed by gold bullion first and/or second contribution conditions if the Home Responsibilities protection had been able to count towards their exchange traded funds. [HL9525] Category A entitlement. 3. Only women over State Pension age are included as we are The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord unable to assess whether the Home Responsibilities Protection would improve basic State Pension entitlement until an Sassoon): The Government are aware of the recent individual has completed their working life. developments in the Exchange Traded Funds industry 4. Women have not been able to make the reduced rate and is working closely with the Financial Services election since 12 May 1977. However, women who were already Authority and the Bank of England to analyse the paying the reduced rate at this point were allowed to continue risks associated with these products. their election and pay reduced rates. WA 107 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 108

5. The election would lapse: The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department if, since 6 April 1978, there were two consecutive years during for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): which no Class 1 contributions were paid (or treated as paid), The Government are investing nearly £4.5 billion in and the woman was not self-employed new affordable housing to help deliver up to 150,000 if the marriage was ended through divorce or annulment new affordable homes between 2011-12 and 2014-15 in at the end of the tax year in which the woman’s widow’s England. bereavement benefit ended if the woman chose to cancel it. The New Homes Bonus is designed to incentivise 6. Home Responsibilities Protection (HAP) was available in all increases in housing supply, including new homes, respect of the tax years 1978/79 to 2009/10 if insufficient conversions and empty properties brought back into National Insurance contributions had been paid or credited to use. It is for local authorities and their communities to make the year a qualifying year for basic pension purposes, decide the type of homes they want and the shape of where the person: future development. was receiving Child Benefit in respect of a child under the age of 16 For all developments, the New Homes Bonus is was caring for a severely disabled person for a minimum of based on the council tax from net increase in effective 35 hours per week housing stock with a further enhancement of £350 for was receiving a carers premium to income support affordable homes and will be paid for the following six in the case of years 2003/04 to 2009/10, was a foster parent. years. 6. For people reaching pension age before 6 April 2010 HRP Rents in the private sector are set by individual was not a National Insurance credit, it operated by reducing the landlords in accordance with local market conditions. number of years of National Insurance contributions or credits required for entitlement to a Category A basic pension to a This Government have sought to ensure that rents are minimum of 20. Women who elected to pay National Insurance not artificially inflated by centrally imposed regulatory contributions at the reduced rate will also have entitlement to a burdens; and to provide support through the housing Category B basic pension based on their husbands contributions. benefit system for those unable to afford market rents In the generality of cases HAP will only have created a financial without assistance. In the longer term, the recent advantage if it resulted in their Category A entitlement exceeding Budget contained measures directed at increasing their Category B entitlement or if the woman reached pension investment in the sector which, by increasing supply, age before her husband and therefore did not qualify for a Category B pension until he reached pension age. will exert a downward pressure on private sector rents. 7. For people reaching pension age from 6 April 2010 Asked by Baroness King of Bow onwards years of HAP were converted into years of National Insurance credits and from April 2010 it was replaced by weekly To ask Her Majesty’s Government what has National Insurance credits for people who are: been the guideline for rent increases for council receiving Child Benefit for a child under the age of 12 tenants in each year since 2001. [HL9377] foster parents caring for one or more severely disabled adults or children for a minimum of 35 hours per week. Baroness Hanham: Guideline rent increases for England since 2001 are shown in the table below: Houses of Parliament: Cycle Hire Question Financial Year Guideline Rent Increase Asked by Lord Butler of Brockwell 2001-02 4.50% 2002-03 5.43% To ask the Chairman of Committees what further 2003-04 5.01% conversations he has had with Transport for London 2004-05 6.11% about providing a docking station for Barclays 2005-06 5.74% bicycles close to the Houses of Parliament.[HL9547] 2006-07 9.95% The Chairman of Committees (Lord Brabazon of 2007-08 7.22% Tara): The Parliamentary Estates Directorate (PED) 2008-09 6.03% has been in discussions with Transport for London 2009-10 3.10% (TfL) regarding this matter and a site for a docking 2010-11 3.10% station on Abingdon Green has been agreed. This 2011-12 6.80% land is owned by the House of Commons and I understand that the House of Commons has agreed in principle to grant a lease although the full details and Guideline rents and guideline rent increases reflect responsibilities have not yet been agreed. Detailed notional figures used in the calculation of housing designs now need to be developed so that planning revenue account subsidy and are not the same as permission can be sought, and PED will continue to actual increases charged by local authorities to tenants. work with TfL on the next steps. The inflation-linked formula for annual rent increases was inherited from the previous government. It includes Housing a recommended limit on individual rent increases of no more than RPI+0.5% + £2 in any year. Questions Asked by Lord Whitty Asked by Baroness King of Bow To ask Her Majesty’s Government what they To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many intend to do to increase the supply of affordable (a) social rented homes, and (b) low cost home rented accommodation in the private and social ownership homes, were built in the London Borough housing sectors. [HL9351] of Tower Hamlets in 2009–10 and 2010–11.[HL9445] WA 109 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 110

Baroness Hanham: Official statistics on gross additional Discretionary Housing Payment funding for London authorities 2011-12 affordable housing supply published by DCLG show Discretionary Housing that there were 1,990 affordable homes delivered in Payment—Government Tower Hamlets in 2009-10 of which 1,260 were for Authority contribution (£) social rent, 70 for intermediate rent and 660 for low Ealing 382,232 cost home ownership (all figures rounded to nearest 10). Enfield 275,082 New affordable housing can be delivered through new Greenwich 345,536 build and acquisitions, although the majority of the Hackney 292,211 additional supply in 2009-10 in Tower Hamlets was Hammersmith and Fulham 219,084 through new build. Haringey 366,870 Data on total affordable supply in each local authority Harrow 150,295 area for 2010-11 are not yet available and will be Havering 87,807 published by DCLG in the autumn. Hillingdon 170,664 Asked by Baroness King of Bow Hounslow 141,822 Islington 162,478 To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Kensington and Chelsea 463,789 recipients of Housing Benefit in the London Borough Kingston upon Thames 85,704 of Tower Hamlets are subject to a non-dependent Lambeth 239,142 deduction, broken down by each rate. [HL9447] Lewisham 253,914 Merton 136,336 Newham 266,262 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): This information Redbridge 180,476 is not available. Richmond upon Thames 137,113 Southwark 166,711 The department does collect information on non- Sutton 89,521 dependant deductions applied to awards of housing Tower Hamlets 218,048 benefit, but to assess the completeness of recording Waltham Forest 166,601 and quality assure the figures would incur disproportionate Wandsworth 222,607 cost. Westminster 1,104,144 From February 2007, DWP has been collecting more detailed HB/CTB data electronically from local authorities. Over time this will improve the accuracy, timeliness and level of detail available in the published Housing Benefit statistics, as the information supplied is quality assured. Question Housing benefit caseload and average weekly amounts are available at local authority area level and these are Asked by Baroness King of Bow published on the department’s website at http://www.dwp. To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many gov.uk/asd/hbctb.asp. local housing allowance recipients in Tower Hamlets will lose (a) all, and (b) part of, their allowance as a Asked by Baroness King of Bow result of caps due to be introduced in 2011–12. To ask Her Majesty’s Government how much [HL9540] discretionary housing payment funding is being made available to each local authority in London The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): It is estimated for 2011–12, 2012–13 and 2013–14. [HL9458] that 970 housing benefit claimants in Tower Hamlets will experience a loss as a result of the caps applied to Lord Freud: The Discretionary Housing Payments local housing allowance and the removal of the five funding for London authorities for 2011-12 is provided bedroom rate. Most existing claimants are expected to in the table below. remain entitled to housing benefit as they become The Discretionary Housing Payments funding for affected by the local housing allowance changes. 2012-13 and 2013-14 is not yet available as the distributions However, in cases where the housing benefit award to individual authorities are yet to take place. does not currently cover the full rent due to income or Discretionary Housing Payment funding for London authorities 2011-12 other deductions, some customers may lose their whole Discretionary Housing award. Payment—Government We are unable to estimate how many people will Authority contribution (£) flow off housing benefit as a result of the caps, partly Barking 140,486 because the caps are a part of a package of reforms, but also because this will depend on the precise earnings Barnet 367,785 of housing benefit claimants at the time of transition. Bexley 83,039 Brent 539,188 Customers who were receiving housing benefit Bromley 122,441 according to local housing allowance rules before Camden 330,258 1 April 2011 will receive up to nine months transitional City of London 3,427 protection from the date their claim is reviewed by the local authority, allowing them more time to adjust to Croydon 269,981 the reduction in entitlement. WA 111 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 112

Further details of the impact of local housing Asked by Lord Laird allowance reforms are presented in the document Impacts of Housing Benefit proposals: Changes to the Local To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to Housing Allowance to be introduced in 2011-12. A copy the Written Answer by Baroness Rawlings on 18 May has been placed in the Library and it can be found on (WA 344) concerning broadband delivery, against the department’s website at www.dwp.gov.ukldocs/ what criteria the conclusion was reached by the impacts-of-hb-proposals.pdf. Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media Notes: and Sport that he was satisfied with Broadband Delivery UK’s performance. [HL9449] 1. The estimates are based on the Single Housing Benefit Extract (DWP administrative data) from March 2010. 2. The Local Housing Allowance caps and the removal of the Baroness Rawlings: The Government’s vision is that five-bedroom rate were assessed jointly. the UK should have the best superfast broadband network in Europe by 2015. The criteria for making International Aid and Development that judgment will be published in the form of a scorecard which we intend to publish in the summer Question and to update annually. The Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport holds regular Asked by Lord Chidgey meetings with Broadband Delivery UK (BDUK) officials To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, in and is satisfied that their programme of work, as set the light of the letter by the Secretary of State for out in the Broadband Delivery Programme Delivery Defence to the Prime Minister regarding the level Model published on 17 May 2011, can deliver the of spending on international aid and development, Government’s vision. they will review spending levels and recipient Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark countries. [HL9606] To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Baroness Verma: As the Prime Minister made clear homes in each of the London Boroughs are in an at the G8 conference in Deauville, the coalition area with low speed broadband. [HL9617] Government are determined not to balance the books on the backs of the world’s poorest people. The coalition Baroness Rawlings: Broadband Delivery UK (BDUK) agreement set out our commitment to spend 0.7 per is assessing current broadband provision at community cent of GNI on overseas aid from 2013. We are fully level across the UK in its work to deliver the coalition committed to enshrining this commitment into law. Government’s objective to facilitate universal broadband UK Government spend on overseas aid to 2014-15 has access of at least 2Mbps and achieve the best superfast been set out in the Comprehensive Spending Review. broadband network in Europe by 2015. The Department for International Development BDUK’s estimate of the number of premises in has recently conducted a comprehensive review of each London Borough with an estimated connection both its bilateral and multilateral aid programmes. speed of less than 2 Mbps is given in the table The results of both reviews were published in March 2011. The reviews ensure that the aid budget will Number of premises remain focused on delivering tangible and measurable with an estimated results for the world’s poorest people over the next Total number of connection speed of four years. Borough premises Less than 2Mbit/s Barking and 72,970 4,003 Dagenham Internet: Broadband Barnet 141,638 2,382 Questions Bexley 98,475 2,246 Brent 105,875 1,667 Asked by Lord Whitty Bromley 139,175 4,345 To ask Her Majesty’s Government what estimate Camden 90,751 422 has been made of the proportion of the population City of London 11,241 6 of the United Kingdom which will have access by City of Westminster 110,624 49 2015 to (a) conventional fixed broadband, (b) superfast Croydon 149,335 7,820 broadband, (c) wireless broadband, and (d) satellite Ealing 126,974 7,063 broadband services. [HL9353] Enfield 123,122 2,692 Greenwich 104,621 1,866 Hackney 96,439 457 Baroness Rawlings: The Government’s ambition is Hammersmith and 74,389 440 for nine out of 10 homes and businesses in every Fulham county in the UK to have access to superfast broadband Haringey 92,034 866 by 2015, with the rest of the population having access Harrow 89,506 1,584 to at least a 2Mbps connection. The precise mix of Havering 103,282 8,465 technologies will be determined by a combination of Hillingdon 109,049 7,665 market-led deployments and local circumstances, but Hounslow 97,706 2,860 we expect fixed, wireless and satellite broadband services Islington 89,548 368 all to play a role. WA 113 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 114

Further decentralising work is being undertaken—such Number of premises with an estimated as reducing the burden of data reporting to central Total number of connection speed of government through the new Single Data List, and Borough premises Less than 2Mbit/s curtailing the 1,000 pages of planning guidance via the new, succinct National Planning Policy Framework. Kensington and 72,476 38 Chelsea Kingston upon 66,589 1,089 Thames Lambeth 121,726 1,126 Local Authorities: Statutory Duties Lewisham 117,280 1,175 Question Merton 83,070 2,489 Asked by The Earl of Clancarty Newham 102,900 2,200 Redbridge 103,407 1,810 To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their Richmond upon 84,122 2,043 response to the consultation which ended on 26 April Thames on the statutory duties currently placed on local Southwark 128,316 893 authorities; what action they will take; and when. Sutton 82,263 1,300 [HL9231] Tower Hamlets 109,593 1,460 Waltham Forest 99,940 1,288 Wandsworth 128,034 2,531 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): In March, the Department for Communities and Local Government announced our intention to make public Local Authorities: Guidance and to review the statutory duties placed on local Question authorities by central government. At no point in recent history has there been a Asked by Lord Ouseley comprehensive list of the legal duties placed on councils. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they To remedy this, the Government agreed with the intend to reduce the level of guidance given to Local Government Association that we should compile councils each year in order to reduce bureaucracy such a list. Our aims in doing so were first, to provide and save money. [HL9411] clarity about what those duties are, and second, to assess which duties do not serve the public interest, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department and which may be creating unnecessary burdens and for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): bureaucracy for local authorities, without improving Yes. Decentralising power and lifting the unnecessary the services provided to the public. burdens and red tape that tie the hands of local councils We published a draft list in March. It contained and local communities is a priority for the Government. over 1,200 duties stemming from primary legislation As an illustration of this cross-government agenda for which departments across Whitehall are responsible. of decentralisation, the Department for Communities We invited local authorities and the general public to and Local Government has taken many positive steps respond, identifying any existing duties that had not to free local councils from unnecessary central rules, been identified and so needed to be added to the list, intervention and guidance, including: and asking for comments on whether any particular the abolition of comprehensive area assessment; duties were no longer relevant. the abolition of regional spatial strategies through From the outset, we have been clear this is an the Localism Bill; exercise in getting together a comprehensive list and the withdrawal of guidance on annual monitoring obtaining any feedback from councils on duties that reports and local development framework monitoring; are not relevant. We said unequivocally that the the curtailment of best value guidance, the abolition Government would not remove any statutory duties of the two tier code and removing associated statutory that protect vital front line services. duties; However, since the publication of the draft list the revocation of planning guidance imposing Whitehall there unfortunately has been wilful misrepresentation density targets and restricting the number of parking suggesting that important duties that protect vital spaces for new homes; frontline services will be removed. the abolition of Whitehall guidance on road closures I feel it important to clarify to the House that the which hindered local street parties; Government have no intention to remove statutory the abolition of the National Indicator Set and protection where this will have a negative impact on Place Surveys; the services provided to the public. Such protections that will rightly remain include, for example, services the abolition of 4,700 local area agreement targets; for vulnerable children such as those who are looked abolition of the top-down Government Offices for after or with special educational needs or disabilities, the Regions; allotments, and libraries. These examples should not the phasing out of ring-fenced grants; and in any way be interpreted as an exclusive list—but the introduction of a general power of competence rather these are areas which have been falsely suggested via the Localism Bill. as having been considered for removal. WA 115 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 116

The invitation to respond has now closed, following Further correspondence between the NIO and NIHRC the receipt of over 6,000 responses. during April 2011 has not been released because this The next step will be for the department to analyse relates to discussions about a Commissioner’s personal and review the representations. Any future work on circumstances and staff pay that remain ongoing. whether to remove duties or associated guidance that only serve to create overly bureaucratic burdens on councils will be a separate process, and we will consult Office of the Public Guardian further where necessary. For the avoidance of doubt, Questions the list of statutory duties is intended to be a comprehensive list of duties on local councils and so Asked by Lord Hunt of Kings Heath the inclusion of a particular duty is not an indication To ask Her Majesty’s Government why the Office that the Government are considering that duty for of the Public Guardian is proposing an increase in removal. fees for vulnerable clients. [HL9586] Our aim is, and will continue to be, to allow for the provision of better services to the public. I hope we To ask Her Majesty’s Government by what can build a broad consensus for decentralisation in percentage the Office of the Public Guardian are local government by removing unnecessary Whitehall increasing fees imposed on vulnerable clients. burdens, while retaining important and useful [HL9587] requirements, thereby allowing councils to provide better value for money and higher quality local services The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord to their residents. McNally): The Office of the Public Guardian regularly I will keep the House informed of progress. reviews the fees charged for its services, to ensure that they are sufficient to meet the costs of its operation. National Insurance The recent consultation, Office of the Public Guardian: Fees 2011/2012 (CP16/10), sought views on a number Question of proposed changes to the current regime to ensure Asked by Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts fees charged are fair and equitable and continue to meet the OPG’s costs going forward. To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many The consultation opened on 28 February 2011 and time-limited National Insurance numbers were issued closed on 21 May 2011. The Government are currently in each of the last five years for which records are considering the responses received and will issue a available. [HL9528] formal consultation response once this process is complete. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department The consultation proposed making a number of for Work and Pensions (Lord Freud): DWP does not changes to the current fee regime, including the removal issue time limited National Insurance numbers. This is or reduction of some fees and increases to some because the NlNo provides a permanent numerical others. More fundamentally, it proposed restructuring link between the individual and their National Insurance the fees charged for the supervision of court-appointed Contribution record in case of any future entitlement deputies. It envisaged moving from the current tiered-fee to contributory benefits or State Pension for the individual scheme, to a new approach to charge a flat fee for the or bereavement benefits for their partner after death. large majority of cases and introducing a basic administration fee for the lowest category of supervision. Northern Ireland: Human Rights It also proposed raising the income threshold progressively over the next four years to reduce the number paying Commission the standard fee. Question The net effect of the proposed changes would range Asked by Lord Laird from a maximum increase in fees charged of 83 per cent to a reduction of 80 per cent in fees charged, To ask Her Majesty’s Government what dependent on category. correspondence they had with the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission during April 2011; and whether they will place copies of any correspondence Parking in the Library of the House. [HL9627] Question Lord Shutt of Greetland: The following piece of Asked by Lord Lucas correspondence between the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission (NIHRC) and the Northern Ireland To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Office (NIO) during April 2011 will be placed in the will revoke or amend traffic sign special directions Library of the House: found by parking adjudicators to permit parking Letter dated 15 April 2011 from the NIHRC Director signage that is ambiguous and misleading to to the NIO. motorists. [HL9579] The noble Lord may wish to note that the Commission’s Business Plan for 2011-12 and Strategic Earl Attlee: The Department for Transport gives Plan for 2011-2013 referred to in this letter are due for careful consideration to each request from highway publication in early June and a copy of each plan will authorities before issuing any special direction. It is then be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. for local authorities to determine whether the conditions WA 117 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 118 of a special direction meet their traffic management increased provision of Changing Places toilets. The needs, propose alternative signing solutions where department is working closely with the Local Government necessary and apply to the Department for Transport Association, the Changing Places Consortium and a for the revocation or amendment of any special directions number of industry bodies, to understand what prevents where this is appropriate. voluntary provision of these facilities and how to encourage provision of these facilities by existing providers, including local authorities, particularly in buildings such as large Parking and Traffic Offences shopping centres. Question The latest figures provided by the Changing Places Consortium indicate that there are 183 Changing Places Asked by Lord Lucas toilets in England and 12 in Wales. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether In March 2008 the previous administration published provisions in the Traffic Management Act 2004 or guidance in Improving Public Access to Better Quality its regulations create any exemption from parking Toilets that sought to encourage better public access restrictions that are exercisable by civil enforcement to toilets in our cities, towns, and other public places. officers when engaged in parking enforcement It also highlighted the importance of Changing Places operations; and, if not, what action they will take toilets for people with profound and multiple disabilities to ensure that this is brought to the attention of as well as providing information on the requirements of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. civil enforcement authorities. [HL9578] We believe that decentralisation is the way to ensure that public services and amenities better reflect local Earl Attlee: Exemptions from parking restrictions needs. Private sector provision in shopping and tourist are usually given in the relevant Traffic Regulation areas, and approaches such as Community Toilet Schemes, Order (TRO) made by the local authority using enabling where councils pay local shops and businesses a small powers contained in the Road Traffic Regulation Act fee to allow free public access to their toilets, can be a 1984. These powers allow local authorities wide flexibility useful way to supplement public toilets managed by in determining the nature of parking restrictions, and local authorities. any exemption from them are matters that need to be decided and implemented at the local level. Railways: Electrification The only exemptions normally given are for the emergency services (police, fire brigade and ambulance), Question statutory undertakers who cannot reasonably use other Asked by Lord Berkeley roads for a particular function and postal deliveries—but it is open to an authority to consider others. To ask Her Majesty’s Government, following the statement by the Prime Minister at Swansea on 1 April that the extension of the rail electrification Public Toilets from Cardiff to Swansea was still under consideration, what is the estimated cost of this work; and how Questions many Intercity Express all electric trains could be Asked by Baroness Randerson substituted for bimodal trains. [HL8664] To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Earl Attlee: The electrification work between Cardiff plan to take any further action to encourage local and Swansea is estimated to cost £62 million. authorities to provide more Changing Places toilets. In our consideration of full electrification to Swansea, [HL9500] we calculate that an additional nine electric trains To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they would be needed in place of bi-modes. However, additional have made any assessment of the number of Changing diesel locomotives would be required (or alternatively Places toilets provided in England and Wales. the retention of High Speed Trains), to provide South Wales services during times of disruption, such as [HL9501] maintenance of the Severn Tunnel, and to allow continued To ask Her Majesty’s Government what guidance provision of through services between London and is given to local authorities on the provision of West Wales. Changing Places toilets in relation to compliance A key benefit of the bimode fleet is that during such with the Disability Discrimination Act 1995. incidents, passengers from South Wales will continue [HL9502] to enjoy the reduced journey times and the additional To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they capacity that IEP (Intercity Express Programme) will have any plans to make the provision of public deliver. toilets by local authorities a legal duty. [HL9503] Railways: Franchises The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department Question for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Hanham): Asked by Lord Bradshaw As part of a review of certain aspects of the building regulations, the Department for Communities and Local To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to Government is carrying out work to consider whether the Written Answer by Earl Attlee on 12 May there is a role for Government action to ensure an (WA 245), how many experts the Department for WA 119 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 120

Transport employs who work on franchising letting; Rape what are their areas of expertise; what tasks they no longer undertake in order to work on the franchise Questions process; and who previously conducted this work in Asked by Lord Bach previous franchise lettings. [HL9328] To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Earl Attlee: The number of internal experts employed intend to reduce the number of specialist rape by the Department for Transport whose primary role prosecutors employed by the Crown Prosecution is franchise letting is currently approximately 23. This Service over the period covered by the Comprehensive flexes up or down depending on the number of franchise Spending Review. [HL9538] lettings planned and being undertaken. Roles undertaken include policy formulation, specification, procurement, The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Wallace financial analysis, and legal and economic advice. In of Tankerness): There are no plans to reduce the addition other departmental experts may be called number of specialist rape prosecutors employed by the upon to support the analysis of bidders’ submissions, Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) over the period but this is not part of their normal day-to-day duties. covered by the Comprehensive Spending Review, but External specialists providing technical and legal the number of specialist rape prosecutors is determined advice are required to provide specific support. by local Chief Crown Prosecutors based on local business needs. The Director of Public Prosecutions is The department has undergone a recent reorganisation committed to the effective prosecution of rape by and allocated staff to the planned franchising work specialist rape prosecutors in the CPS working in load. The staff allocated to these roles have been very conjunction with police investigators. largely drawn from those who have undertaken previous re-franchising. Asked by Baroness Stern To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Railways: Ticketing people were convicted of rape of a female in 2009 and received determinate custodial sentences of less Question than (a) life, (b) 15 years, (c) 14 years, (d) 13 years, Asked by Lord Bradshaw (e) 12 years, (f) 11 years, (g) 10 years, (h) 9 years, (i) 8 years, (j) 7 years, (k) 6 years, (l) 5 years, To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the invitation (m) 4 years, (n) 3 years, (o) 2 years, and (p) 1 year. to tender for the Intercity West Coast franchise, [HL9565] what figures were used to establish the average time To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many taken to buy a ticket in a station ticket office people were convicted of rape of a male in 2009 and compared with five years ago; what allowances received determinate custodial sentences of less than were made for any changes in queuing times; and (a) life, (b) 15 years, (c) 14 years, (d) 13 years, what steps were taken to allow those wishing to (e) 12 years, (f) 11 years, (g) 10 years, (h) 9 years, redeem national train vouchers at ticketing sites (i) 8 years, (j) 7 years, (k) 6 years, (l) 5 years, other than station ticket offices to do so. [HL9463] (m) 4 years, (n) 3 years, (o) 2 years, and (p) 1 year. [HL9566] Earl Attlee: Ticket office queuing time and national train vouchers do not form part of the invitation to The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord tender document for the Intercity West Coast franchise. McNally): The number of persons convicted of rape The requirement to monitor and manage ticket office of a female and rape of a male receiving a custodial queues and to accept various forms of payment is part sentence, sentence length break down and the average of the ticketing and settlement agreement, which the custodial sentence length for 2009 and 2010, can be new franchise will be required to adopt. viewed in table 1.

Defendants found guilty, sentence length break down and the average custodial sentence length for offences of rape of a male and rape of a female, England and Wales 2009-10

Total Total Total 1 year 2 years 3 years 4 years 5 years Found Sentenced Immediate Up to up to up to up to up to up to 6 years up 7yearsup Guilty (3) custody 1 year 2 years 3 years 4 years 5 years 6 years to 7 years to8years

2009 Rape of 932 933 885 4 6 17 37 64 102 78 63 a female Rape of 65 66 56 - - 6 1 6 5 4 6 a male Total 997 999 941 4 6 23 38 70 107 82 69 rape 2010 Rape of 9679679171 4225373818248 a female WA 121 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 122

Defendants found guilty, sentence length break down and the average custodial sentence length for offences of rape of a male and rape of a female, England and Wales 2009-10

Total Total Total 1 year 2 years 3 years 4 years 5 years Found Sentenced Immediate Up to up to up to up to up to up to 6 years up 7yearsup Guilty (3) custody 1 year 2 years 3 years 4 years 5 years 6 years to 7 years to8years

Rape of 91 91 67 - - 2 7 - 5 7 3 a male Total 105810589841 4246073868951 rape. Indeterminate 8 years 11 years 12 years 13 years 14 years 15 years Public up to 9yearsup 10 years up up to up to up to up to up to Protection Other 9 years to 10 years to 11 years 12 years 13 years 14 years 15 years life Life Sentence Sentence 2009 Rape of 80 45 55 25 38 17 23 62 18 151 48 a female Rape of 3 1 1 153101 1210 a male Total 83 46 56 26 43 20 24 0 19 163 58 rape 2010 Rape of 91 52 59 18 46 20 29 61 13 164 50 a female Rape of 8 3 3 15115 - 1624 a male Total 99 55 62 19 51 21 30 66 13 180 74 rape

(1) The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate experience to undertake a review into the future of the to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences high street. The scope of the review goes beyond for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found retailing to cover how high streets and town centres guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed work, are used, and what makes them successful. Mary for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for Portas is not being paid for her work on the review. She which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. will make recommendations for Government to consider (2) Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented by the autumn of 2011. She has declared her interests are accurate and complete. However. it is important to note that to the BIS Permanent Secretary and the information these data have been extracted from large administrative data provided to her will take account of her interests. systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account Schools: Free Schools when those data are used. Question (3) The sentenced column may exceed those found guilty as it may be the case that a defendant found guilty, and committed for Asked by Lord Adonis sentence at the Crown court may be sentenced in the following To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they year. will specify the locations, and sponsoring organisation, (4) Average custodial sentence excludes life and indeterminate of each of the free schools scheduled to open in sentences. September 2011. [HL9560] Information drawn from court systems may be different from the information recorded on the Police National Computer The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Hill of Oareford): To date, 32 proposals for Free Schools have been given approval to move to Retail: Mary Portas Review business case stage and beyond, of which a number Question will open in September 2011. The proposers of these schools are not “sponsors” as such, but individuals Asked by Lord Myners and groups who are keen to set up a new school in To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether response to local demand. Ms Mary Portas has any conflicts of interest that The names and locations of the 32 proposals are might impact on her perceived independence in provided below respect of the review she has been asked to conduct into United Kingdom retailing; what steps have Name of proposed school Local authority been taken to manage any conflicts; and what is the All Saints Junior School Reading budget cost of the review. [HL9499] ARK Atwood Primary Westminster Academy The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department ARK Bolingbroke Academy Wandsworth ARK Conway Primary Hammersmith and Fulham for Business, Innovation and Skills (Baroness Wilcox): Academy Mary Portas has been appointed on the basis of her WA 123 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 124

Earl Attlee: No decisions have yet been made on the Name of proposed school Local authority future management of the crossings or any charging Batley Grammar School Kirklees arrangements once ownership returns to the Government. BBG Parents Alliance Kirklees Given the end of the concession is six years away, it is Bedford and Kempston Free Bedford Borough felt that it is too early to make decisions. School Brandon Free School Suffolk Sport: Motorsport Bristol Free School Bristol Canary Wharf College Tower Hamlets Question Discovery New School West Sussex Asked by Lord Rooker Eden Primary School Haringey To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Etz Chaim Jewish Primary Barnet School will allow closed road motorsport events in England Harris Peckham Primary Free Southwark on the same basis as in the devolved parts of the School United Kingdom. [HL8765] King’s Science Academy Bradford Krishna-Avanti Primary School Leicester City Earl Attlee: The Department for Transport is currently Langley Hall Primary Academy Slough considering the case for making it easier for local Maharishi School Lancashire authorities to hold on-road motor racing events and McAuley College Academy Kingston upon Hull intends to consult in due course. Moorlands School Luton Nishkam Free School Birmingham Traffic Commissioners Priors Free School Warwickshire Question Rainbow Primary School Bradford Redbridge Primary School Redbridge Asked by Lord Bradshaw (E-ACT) To ask Her Majesty’s Government what resources Rivendale Free School Hammersmith and Fulham traffic commissioners will have available to them St Luke’s C of E Primary Camden to carry out the duties assigned to them in the School Competition Commission’s provisional findings report Sandbach School Cheshire East on the bus industry. [HL9326] Stour Valley Community School Suffolk Tauheedul Islam Boys’ High Blackburn with Darwen Earl Attlee: No decision has been taken to assign School such duties to traffic commissioners. The Department The Free School Norwich Norfolk for Transport is considering its response to the potential West London Free School Hammersmith and Fulham remedies recommended by the Competition Commission Woodpecker Hall Primary Enfield in its provisional report on the local bus market and Academy will respond to the Competition Commission shortly.

Severn Bridge: Tolls Transport: Public Transport Question Question Asked by Lord Bradshaw Asked by Baroness Randerson To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have to encourage local sustainable public they have had with the Welsh Government relating transport once the current funds for such schemes to the impact of Severn Bridge tolls on the economy have been expended. [HL9325] of Wales. [HL9597] Earl Attlee: We look forward to local authorities continuing to embed sustainable travel in their Earl Attlee: The Welsh Assembly Government are programmes. Authorities submitting bids to the Local currently carrying out a study into the economic impacts Sustainable Transport Fund must demonstrate how of the crossing tolls. We await the outcome of the the measures will be viable and benefits maintained study and will consider it when available. beyond the period of the fund without further financial support from the Department for Transport. Further central government funding is a matter for the next Severn Crossing: Tolls spending review. Question Asked by Baroness Randerson UN: Security Council Question To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Earl Attlee on 19 July 2010 Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon (WA 180), what assessment they have made of To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their whether it is necessary to retain tolls on the Severn policy towards granting the European Union a Crossing when the assets revert to government permanent seat on the United Nations Security ownership. [HL9596] Council. [HL9455] WA 125 Written Answers[7 JUNE 2011] Written Answers WA 126

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Earl Attlee: We are committed to introducing a Office (Lord Howell of Guildford): The Government lorry road user charge which will make all heavy believe that the UN Security Council needs to be goods vehicles 12 tonnes and over, whether UK or reformed to make it more representative of the modern foreign-registered, contribute to the cost of maintaining world. However, the UN is an organisation made up our roads. of individual, sovereign member states and the UN Our first priority is to provide a fairer deal to UK Charter is very clear in that it allows only member hauliers. We are therefore working to develop a simple states to hold seats on the Security Council. There is and effective scheme based on the electronic collection therefore no question of a permanent single EU seat of time-based charges, differentiated by weight. on the Security Council. We are currently finalising the details of the proposed scheme and intend to consult later in the year. United States: Security Question Asked by Lord Stoddart of Swindon Vehicles: Number Plates To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they Question consider the United States policy proposed by President Obama, that it is legitimate to invade Pakistan and Asked by Lord Kennedy of Southwark any other sovereign state to capture or to kill any persons or groups deemed to be a threat to United To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their States security, complies with the United Nations’ assessment of the number plate system for vehicles Charter. [HL9451] registered in the United Kingdom. [HL9517] The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford): We are not aware of Earl Attlee: The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency any general statement by President Obama that it is (DVLA) maintains a register of number plate suppliers legitimate to invade Pakistan or any other sovereign as a means of regulating the supply of number plates. state to capture or kill persons or groups deemed to be Enforcement action is taken against suppliers who are a threat to United States security. in breach of the law. The DVLA also supports the police in their on-road enforcement action against the Vehicle Excise Duty use of illegal number plates. Question The system for the production and control of number plates remains under review in order to try and identify Asked by Lord Lucas improvements that might be made to strengthen the To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, in existing regime. view of the judgments in Woolwich Equitable Building Society v Inland Revenue Commissioners and in LB Camden v The Parking Adjudicator, they will take steps to end the imposition by the Driver and Vehicles: Owners Vehicle Licensing Agency of a surcharge when vehicle Question excise duties are paid by means of a credit card. [HL9580] Asked by Lord Berkeley Earl Attlee: There are no plans to end the charge for To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether the using credit cards for vehicle licence purchases. Legislation names of owners of road vehicles are available on is in place that allows a credit card to be used to pay request to anyone who has a justifiable reason for vehicle excise duty and to specify the amount of the requesting them. [HL9465] fee payable, currently £2.50. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency advises customers that if they purchase a vehicle licence using Earl Attlee: The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency a credit card the £2.50 fee will apply. Alternative (DVLA) records the registered keeper of a vehicle, payment options are available to the public and these who is the person responsible for licensing the vehicle remain free of charge. and for its use but not necessarily the legal owner. Information about registered keepers may be disclosed Vehicles: Lorries where it is fair and lawful to do so. Specific regulations Question allow for the name of the registered keeper to be disclosed to the police, local authorities and customs Asked by Lord Bradshaw officers. Data can also be disclosed to those who can To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they show that they have a reasonable cause for requiring it. are considering for road pricing for lorries a flat This is primarily where the vehicle has been involved rate fee or a price per mile scheme; whether the fee in an incident where there may be liability on the part will differ according to vehicle weight; whether the of the keeper or driver. scheme will be administered through an electronic The DVLA has safeguards in place to ensure that or paper-based system; and how compliance will be data are only disclosed to legitimate organisations and maximised. [HL9462] are not misused by the recipient. WA 127 Written Answers[LORDS] Written Answers WA 128

Vehicles: Taxis Visas Questions Question Asked by Lord Bradshaw Asked by Lord Laird To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to taxis are licensed by local authorities to ply for hire; the Written Answer by Baroness Neville-Jones and how this number has changed over the past on 30 March (WA 287), how many certificates of sponsorship in March and April 2011 involving 10 years. [HL9413] Tier 2 intracompany transfers relate to posts with a basic salary, excluding allowances, of less than the national minimum wage. [HL9531] Earl Attlee: The Department for Transport’s most recent survey of taxi licensing authorities gives a total The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness of 75,989 licensed taxis in England and Wales as at the Browning): Information on the number of certificates end of March 2009. of sponsorship (CoS) issued in March and April 2011 At the end of December 2001 there were just over involving Tier 2 intra-company transfers having a 63,000 licensed taxis in England and Wales. basic salary is detailed below.

Asked by Lord Bradshaw Month Age21+ CoS To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Age 18-20 Assigned taxis have undergone MoT tests in each of the past CoS Age18-20 with Assigned CoS Used basic Age 21+ CoS [HL9414] 10 years; and how many failed in each year. with basic with basic salary Used with salary below salary below below basic salary £10,233.60 £10,233.60 £12,334.40 below xi xl x2 x2 Earl Attlee: The Department for Transport does £12,334.40 not hold this information. Local authorities are responsible March 0 0 285 284 for licensing taxis in their areas and for ensuring that April 0 0 76 165 the vehicles they license meet the appropriate standards. X1 This figure is based on the current hourly rate for the Asked by Lord Bradshaw minimum wage of £4.92 and assumes a 40-hour week, 52 weeks per year. To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they X2 This figure is based on the current hourly rate for the have any plans to restrict the issue of taxi licences in minimum wage of £5.93 and assumes a 40-hour week, 52 weeks the light of the National Travel Survey showing a of the year. significant decline in the proportion of people regularly The figures provided are based on both assigned using taxis over the last decade. [HL9442] and used CoS. Assigned CoS refers to CoS which the sponsor has allocated to a migrant but which have not been used as part of an application for leave to enter Earl Attlee: The legislation governing taxi licensing or remain. Used CoS refers to CoS which the migrant in England (outside London) and Wales allows local has submitted with an application for leave to enter or authorities to place a limit on taxi numbers if they are remain. satisfied that there is no significant unmet demand for Information on whether a CoS has been used to taxi services in the district. It is up to licensing authorities support an application for leave to enter or remain is to decide whether they want to impose a limit. We not centrally recorded and could only be obtained at estimate that around a quarter impose such a limit. disproportionate cost. Published statistics from the National Travel Survey CoS are issued by sponsors without reference to the (tables NTS0303 and NTS0313) do not show a significant UK Border Agency. The UK Border Agency would decline in the proportion of people regularly using only find out about the salary level when the CoS was taxis. These tables can be found at: http://www.dft. used to support an application for leave to enter or gov.uk/pgr/statisticsidatatablespublications/nts/. remain. Tuesday 7 June 2011

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Col. No. Col. No. Arm’s-length Bodies...... 1 Disabled People: Transport...... 14

Care Homes: Southern Cross...... 1 Environment...... 15 EU: Agriculture and Fisheries Council...... 16 Care Services: Winterbourne View...... 2 EU: Competitiveness Council...... 18 CDC Group plc...... 5 Health: E. coli...... 20 Children: Commercialisation and Sexualisation ...... 8 Money-laundering ...... 21 Civilian Service Medals ...... 10 NHS: Reorganisation...... 22

Counter-Terrorism Act 2008...... 10 Terrorism...... 22 Department for Communities and Local Government ...... 12 Tote ...... 23

Tuesday 7 June 2011

ALPHABETICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. Agriculture: Health and Safety ...... 81 Disabled People: Grants ...... 97

Airports: Body Scanners...... 85 Education ...... 98

Airports: Holding Rooms...... 86 Education: Classics...... 98

Armed Forces: Military Bands...... 86 Egypt and Tunisia...... 99

Armed Forces: Public Briefings ...... 86 Elections: Commonwealth Citizens ...... 99

Armed Forces: Stationing ...... 87 Elections: Voting System...... 100

Arts: Funding ...... 87 Energy: Biofuels...... 100

Asylum Seekers...... 88 Energy: Gas ...... 101

Audit Commission...... 89 Energy: Nuclear Industry...... 101 Enterprise Zones...... 102 Aviation: Air Quality ...... 89 EU: Economic Governance ...... 102 Aviation: Electrical Equipment...... 90 EU: Financial Support ...... 103 Banking: Bonuses ...... 91 EU: Taxation ...... 103 Banking: Money Supply ...... 92 EU: Transport...... 103 Banking: Royal Bank of Scotland...... 91 European Arrest Warrant ...... 104 Banks: Lending...... 91 European Union ...... 104 Benefits...... 93 Gambling: Horseracing...... 105 Charter of Fundamental Rights ...... 95 Gold Bullion...... 105 Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority: Staff ...... 95 Government Departments: Consultants ...... 106

Digital Economy Act 2010...... 96 Home Responsibilities Protection ...... 106 Col. No. Col. No. Houses of Parliament: Cycle Hire...... 107 Re-Export Controls Bill...... 81

Housing ...... 107 Retail: Mary Portas Review ...... 121 Housing Benefit...... 110 Schools: Free Schools ...... 122 International Aid and Development ...... 111 Severn Bridge: Tolls ...... 123 Internet: Broadband ...... 111 Severn Crossing: Tolls...... 123 Local Authorities: Guidance...... 113 Sport: Motorsport ...... 124 Local Authorities: Statutory Duties...... 114 Traffic Commissioners ...... 124 National Insurance ...... 115 Transport: Public Transport...... 124 Northern Ireland: Human Rights Commission...... 115 UN: Security Council ...... 124 Office of the Public Guardian...... 116 United States: Security...... 125 Parking ...... 116 Vehicle Excise Duty ...... 125 Parking and Traffic Offences...... 117 Vehicles: Lorries...... 125 Public Toilets ...... 117

Railways: Electrification ...... 118 Vehicles: Number Plates...... 126

Railways: Franchises...... 118 Vehicles: Owners...... 126

Railways: Ticketing...... 119 Vehicles: Taxis...... 127

Rape ...... 120 Visas ...... 128 NUMERICAL INDEX TO WRITTEN ANSWERS

Col. No. Col. No. [HL8664] ...... 118 [HL9383] ...... 102

[HL8765] ...... 124 [HL9390] ...... 90

[HL8932] ...... 100 [HL9411] ...... 113

[HL8934] ...... 100 [HL9413] ...... 127

[HL8967] ...... 106 [HL9414] ...... 127

[HL9118] ...... 86 [HL9430] ...... 81

[HL9230] ...... 85 [HL9442] ...... 127

[HL9231] ...... 114 [HL9444] ...... 97

[HL9281] ...... 87 [HL9445] ...... 108

[HL9321] ...... 89 [HL9447] ...... 109

[HL9322] ...... 89 [HL9449] ...... 112

[HL9325] ...... 124 [HL9451] ...... 125

[HL9326] ...... 124 [HL9453] ...... 95

[HL9328] ...... 119 [HL9455] ...... 124

[HL9350] ...... 96 [HL9456] ...... 104

[HL9351] ...... 107 [HL9458] ...... 109

[HL9353] ...... 111 [HL9462] ...... 125

[HL9377] ...... 108 [HL9463] ...... 119

[HL9381] ...... 101 [HL9464] ...... 103 Col. No. Col. No. [HL9465] ...... 126 [HL9544] ...... 86

[HL9469] ...... 81 [HL9545] ...... 87

[HL9470] ...... 82 [HL9546] ...... 86

[HL9471] ...... 83 [HL9547] ...... 107

[HL9477] ...... 100 [HL9556] ...... 99

[HL9486] ...... 101 [HL9560] ...... 122

[HL9488] ...... 96 [HL9561] ...... 102

[HL9489] ...... 96 [HL9562] ...... 103

[HL9491] ...... 98 [HL9565] ...... 120

[HL9492] ...... 98 [HL9566] ...... 120

[HL9493] ...... 99 [HL9567] ...... 94

[HL9499] ...... 121 [HL9568] ...... 95

[HL9500] ...... 117 [HL9569] ...... 89

[HL9501] ...... 117 [HL9570] ...... 89

[HL9502] ...... 117 [HL9571] ...... 89

[HL9503] ...... 117 [HL9572] ...... 89

[HL9504] ...... 106 [HL9573] ...... 90

[HL9505] ...... 93 [HL9574] ...... 90

[HL9506] ...... 91 [HL9575] ...... 98

[HL9507] ...... 91 [HL9578] ...... 117

[HL9512] ...... 85 [HL9579] ...... 116

[HL9514] ...... 104 [HL9580] ...... 125

[HL9517] ...... 126 [HL9581] ...... 105

[HL9519] ...... 103 [HL9586] ...... 116

[HL9523] ...... 91 [HL9587] ...... 116

[HL9525] ...... 105 [HL9596] ...... 123

[HL9528] ...... 115 [HL9597] ...... 123

[HL9529] ...... 92 [HL9606] ...... 111

[HL9531] ...... 128 [HL9617] ...... 112

[HL9533] ...... 88 [HL9622] ...... 90

[HL9534] ...... 88 [HL9623] ...... 90

[HL9536] ...... 99 [HL9625] ...... 90

[HL9538] ...... 120 [HL9626] ...... 90

[HL9540] ...... 110 [HL9627] ...... 115

[HL9543] ...... 86 [HL9628] ...... 87 Volume 728 Tuesday No. 159 7 June 2011

CONTENTS

Tuesday 7 June 2011 Questions Health: Multiple Sclerosis ...... 127 Health: Hospital-acquired Infection ...... 129 Leader’s Group on Working Practices ...... 132 Care Homes ...... 133 Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill [HL] First Reading ...... 136 Draft House of Lords Reform Bill Motion...... 136 Localism Bill Second Reading ...... 147 Grand Committee Representation of the People (Electoral Registration Data Schemes) Regulations 2011 ...... GC 1 Electoral Registration Data Schemes Order 2011 ...... GC 17 Export Control (Amendment) (No. 3) Order 2011...... GC 17 Taxation of Equitable Life (Payments) Order 2011 Considered in Grand Committee ...... GC 21 Written Statements ...... WS 1 Written Answers...... WA 8 1