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and the Sacred Text 4.8- The World Cup:

Vanessa: Chapter Eight: The Quidditch World Cup.

“Clutching their purchases, Mr. Weasley in the lead, (Intro Music Begins) they all ​ ​ hurried into the wood following the lantern lit trail. They could hear the sounds of thousands of people moving around them. Shouts and laughter, snatches of singing…”

Vanessa: I’m Vanessa Zoltan

Casper: And I’m Casper ter Kuile

Casper: And this is Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. ​

(Intro Music Fades)

Vanessa: So Casper, we’re really excited because our opening story today, about the theme of fandom, is gonna to be told to us by Kevin T. Porter. So we’re about to have Kevin on the show, but, we’re going to meet him in a few weeks.

Casper: In person.

Vanessa: Yes.

Casper: In .

Vanessa: Yes.

th th Casper: On the 9 ​ and the 10 ​ of December, it’s the first ever PodCon, and it’s brought to you ​ ​ by the same people who do VidCon every year. And Hank and his brother are kinda behind it and you can get 10% off if you want to buy a ticket and use our offer code: “Potter.”

Vanessa: And if you are at all interested in podcasting, or in , this is going to be an absolutely incredible Con. Some of your favorite podcasters are gonna be there. From Kevin T. Porter to Roman Mars, to the Green brothers, everyone from the Night Vail . I mean, ​ ​ like, it’s just gonna be an incredible, super nerdy, super fun event. And we are doing a mini live show.

Casper: And we’re each doing a panel event as well. So Ariana, Vanessa and I are each doing different panels so you can come hear us and say “hello.” We’d love to meet you.

Vanessa: Yeah, so if you’re at all in the Seattle area or looking for an excuse to go there go to podcon.com and just, we would really love to see you there. I think its gonna be so fun and we’re gonna learn so much.

Vanessa: We are very excited this week to welcome Kevin T. Porter who is a writer, a comedian, he’s from the amazing podcast Gilmore Guys and now from the incredible new ​ ​ podcast Good Christian Fun. And he’s gonna tell us a story about the theme of fandom. Kevin, ​ ​ welcome so much and thanks for joining us!

Kevin: Hey guys, thanks for having me here. What an honor to be here. This is my first Harry Potter podcast so it’s uh, it’s a big deal for me.

Casper: And we should say, we were inspired by Gilmore Guys as one of the ways to think ​ ​ about how we could read the potter books and look for joy and meaning. So, thanks for all the work you’ve done on that.

Kevin: Aw, that’s so lovely. Thank you for saying that. I like the idea of using a topic as a vehicle for another kinda conversation. So, it’s like, you know, your show is technically about Harry Potter in the sense of that’s what you search for to find it. But, it’s about so many more other things and, and, Gilmore Guys, even though that was not the intention, it ended up becoming ​ ​ about “other things” the more and more we did the show. So, it’s nice to see shows kinda carry on in that tradition rather than just like: “I like that Harry did this. I don’t like that Harry did that” in that kind of binary way of criticism rather than: “Oh, but what does this say about us? What does this say about the characters in the broader themes of what they’re talking about?”

Vanessa: Yeah…

Casper: Exactly.

Vanessa: And we wanna hear more about, ‘cause that’s a lot of what you’re doing with Good ​ Christian Fun too. But, let’s hear your story and then we’ll ask you a little bit about your new ​ project. Does that sound good?

Kevin: Sure! Yeah.

Vanessa: Okay.

Kevin: So, on the topic of fandom, I feel like the fandom of which I’ve belonged to the longest, or one of them, would be for Mr. . So, it’s 2008 and I go to my first Bruce Springsteen and The E Street band concert ever. Now Bruce Springsteen, for me, that was kinda the Alpha and Omega in high school as far as music goes. I didn’t have a wide palette of tastes, I listened to some musicals, some soundtracks, and pretty much exclusively Bruce Springsteen. Through luck and happenstance that night we got on the front row of that show and had a concert experience unlike anything. We had never gotten into the pit before, we had never seen him up close and personal and it was like, it was a transcendent night. It was everything that you would want from a concert in a show like that. Singing along to every song, knowing every word, exchanging glances with everyone in the band including Bruce. And it’s th one of those things, every time the date comes up, it was April the 14 ,​ I send them a little text ​ like: “Can’t believe it’s been 5 years… 6 years… 7 years… 8years ago.” And that night I met a woman named Leslie who had become a friend of mine that I would see occasionally at these shows over the years. So, cut to 4 years later and I’m in Phoenix, Arizona, he’s on a different tour, it’s a different time, and who should I happen to see at the show again but Leslie, who I met in Houston that first night. We see each other, we freak out, we give each other a hug, we talk about how we like new album, what we don’t like about the new album, and all the fun and nuance that comes with being a longtime of someone with a body of work like Bruce Springsteen. But after that conversation, it kind of strikes me that’s not the same anymore. Even in a, not that old age of 22 years old, I felt that sort of alienation and a “not belonging” anymore. Even though that first night in Houston lives in my memory as epic and legendary and nothing can ever take that away, there is something about growing up, growing older, moving away, starting a career of my own and a life of my own. And even seeing old friends like Leslie who I enjoy and love, it’s a nice reminder of, sometimes being a fan is not an “all in” “all or nothing” commitment for the rest of your life, forever. Sometimes and the way they function in your life is just for a season, and just for a time, and just because you don’t care as intensely and as deeply as something when you were 16 that you do at the age of 26, it doesn’t mean that there’s less value to having participated in it at all. But, I think, sometimes it’s okay to engage and to walk away.

Casper: Kevin I so resonate with your story because I think fandom and just the experience of intensity that you have with, whether it’s music or with theater or even with podcasts, like, they come and they go and they speak to a specific time in your life. And, those moments of fandoms are really about having an intense experience from which we then grow and, I don’t know, we might need a different fan experience. I think the idea of loving something, like beyond rationality, is something that maybe is gonna be there forever but what it is changes. I, I love that your story kind of illustrates that.

Kevin: Well, I feel like it’s, it’s almost like some relationships, just because they don’t-

Casper: Yeah-

Kevin: -work out in the indefinite sense and you marry that person and you’re with them forever, doesn’t mean that they’re either a waste of time or failures. It just means that certain things are for certain seasons and they can have value for those times in your life without, you know, being infinite in that way.

Casper: But I do wonder, like, there is something about fan love which feels, it’s kind of like nerdiness. That there’s an unashamed, unabashed, enthusiasm about it. That, like there’s something raw, and beautiful, and like, I don’t-I don’t know what it is. And, I wonder from your work from the Gilmore Guys podcast, what did you learn about yourself being a fan? Did it end ​ ​ up shaping how you were able to love other things and people? I’m just so curious about that.

Kevin: Yeah, so I think-I think doing the podcast made it so… Because I was a fan of the TV show before I did the podcast, I think all the things I really enjoyed about the show, I enjoyed even more. And the things I didn’t like about the show, or kind of would rush past, I deeply disliked or resented about it. I think, overall, the-the experience of doing the Gilmore Guys ​ podcast taught me cultural discernment in the sense of, everyone’s always saying something even when they’re not saying something. People can say: “Oh it’s just a summer movie, turn your mind off.” Or, “Oh, it’s just some breezy TV show don’t worry about it.” But, everyone is always messaging something, consciously or not, in everything that they’re doing. And, I don’t think it takes the fun out of it to analyze such things and-and to kind of suss that out and to extricate that in that communication. But, I think for me, that is part of the fun. Is: “What’s going on here? What-what are we trying to do? What does it say about us?”

Vanessa: Oh yeah, I never paid attention to Sookie’s clothes until you guys went through and analyzed every outfit.

Kevin: A perfect example.

Vanessa: It’s a great example! I’ve started thinking about it. I’m like: “Are they fat shaming her? Why are they always putting her in these ridiculous outfits?” It’s really given me something to chew on whenever I re-watch an episode every night-I mean, you know, every couple of years…

Kevin: Every couple of years? Oh right right…

Vanessa: But Kevin we also wanna hear about your new project Good Christian Fun, can you ​ ​ just tell our listeners about it if they haven’t heard about it yet?

Kevin: Sure! So, Good Christian Fun is a podcast I started with my cohost Caroline Ely. And, we ​ ​ both had very conservative Christian upbringings. So, we were very exposed to a lot of Christian pop culture which is: Christian movies and music, a lot of Christian rock and Christian video series and stuff. And it’s an interesting, weird, upside down world. Almost like a parallel universe to mainstream culture. And, we thought it would be fun to revisit all that stuff and just kinda ask what it was and what was actually going on with it. Because, I think the reflexive, comedic, posture with a lot of religious stuff is derision or mockery. But, for us, it’s more fun to say: “Oh! Maybe this is good?” Most of the time it’s not, but, but uh-just kinda asking those questions and going through: album by album or book by book and movie by movie and saying like- “Could this possibly be good?” And so, it’s a show about Christian culture, it’s not a show for Christians. Or, you know, here to preach to you or make you go to church or proselytize. But, yeah just kind of engage in it and hopefully have some fun, maybe create some empathy and listen to some D.C. talk along the way.

Vanessa: And I love the idea that you are bringing like, hope and optimism and an earnestness to something that-exactly-is usually treated with contempt or humor. But, bringing a joyful humor to it. I really love that idea.

Casper: Kevin, thank you so much for joining us and good luck on the-the new podcast journey. We’re so grateful to have you with us.

Kevin: Thank you guys. It was an honor to be here and a pleasure.

Vanessa: Thank you Kevin and take care.

Casper: It’s time for the 30 Second Recap, Vanessa. And it is my turn to go first.

Vanessa: Yes, Casper, are you ready to lead us in the 30 Second Recap Challenge?

Casper: Yes, the chapters are getting longer but I’m ready to go.

Vanessa: Okay. On your mark, get set, go.

(Ticking noise)

Casper: Okay so it’s their Quidditch World Cup and we’re really in the game. And so, Krum comes out and everyone’s like: “Wooo!” And the Ireland team comes out and they all have, like, Irish names. And then, um, Bagman points to his throat and says: “Hello!”-sonorous-and then, um, the game, and, there’s a-there’s a Frontsky Feint which is important. And then, um, Ireland are winning by a ton of points and there’s the Veeelas and the Leprechauns and the fake gold, and, and, um, Krum catches the snitch and it’s 160 to 150 and he’s like: “I just had to finish it before it was too awful” -well, that’s at least what Ron thinks. And then Percy breaks his glasses because he’s-

(Buzzing noise—122 words in 30 seconds)

Casper: looking down and Mr. Crouch is there.

Vanessa: That was exceptional.

Casper: (sighs) There’s a lot that I missed though…

Vanessa: Okay. I find that intimidating.

Casper: Alright. You’re ready for your 30 seconds?

Vanessa: Yes.

Casper: Here we go. 3, 2, 1, go.

Vanessa: Over 100,000 people are there and it’s just like mayhem and there’s advertisers and then there’s the Veeela and the Leprechauns and the dancing and then the game starts. And, Harry is watching the game and so much is happening that Harry has a really hard time keeping up. And then, what happens is that Ireland wins and, but, Krum gets the snitch and everybody’s like: “Oh my God, that happened so fast.” And then, also, everybody’s in the top box and Winky is there and Winky is waiting for her boss and is afraid of heights. And Hermione is like: “House Elves, that’s so sad!” And, um, Harry thinks that it’s Dobby but it’s not Dobby and, um, yeah I think Percy-

(Buzzing noise—123 words in 30 seconds)

Vanessa: -is the most important past of this chapter.

Casper: Yeah we meet Winky in this chapter which is a huge development. And, we see and his dad are up in the box as well-There’s a lot that’s going on here.

Vanessa: Yeah the top box is like a little microcosm of the . You see people across classes, across sort of status levels. There’s a lot happening in that top box.

Casper: I think the box is really interesting. Because, you know, the Weasley’s have been given these special tickets and they’re up on the box and at the end when the trophy is presented they’re right there in the box with the Minister of Magic where it’s-The players come up to receive their medals. But, my experience of going to a big sports match or even like, sometimes a concert, is that the most expensive seats, the ones that might have the best view are not necessarily the ones that have the best atmosphere. And, whether it’s baseball or soccer, like, sometimes you wanna be “in the terraces” as you would say in the UK. Cause that’s where the best singing is and, you know, you just get the hustle and bustle of the crowd and it’s where the real passion is. While the-you know, the people in the box might have to be a bit more formal or they’re there with their corporate sponsor or the Minister of Bulgaria. And so, I wonder if being in this box is the best fan experience for Harry and the rest of them.

Vanessa: Yeah, probably not. I feel like Fred and George and the rest of them would be having a lot more fun if there weren’t political and, like, job things at stake while they’re just trying to watch the game.

Casper: Also there would be less risk of them falling from great heights when the Veeelas start singing and dancing ‘cause they’d be on a lower level when they try and jump off the platform.

Vanessa: Correct, there is also that literal risk. But I do think, regardless of where you are sitting, when you’re having a big fan experience one of my favorite parts about going to a sporting event is the just like crowd drama. Right?

Casper: Right!

Vanessa: You get to know the people around you. You get to know like: “Oh, like, he’s in a fight with his boyfriend and he-” Right? Like you get-

Casper: Through the Kiss Cam?

Vanessa: No, just watching people around you! I feel like people become very communal. It’s like, you know, a parent will have to take one kid to the bathroom, the other one doesn’t want to go and you sort of turn around to the people sitting behind you and you’re like: “Can you watch my kid? Hi, nice to meet you. He’s seven.” Right? I feel like this happens to me all the time.

Casper: Totally.

Vanessa: And it’s in a lovely, communal way, but that is not the experience in this box. Right? I think because there’s more at stake with the power, there’s more enmity rather than people coming together and high fiving and getting excited.

Casper: But I think so much of that is because, you know, there’s a shared identity right? We’re all rooting for the same team. And so, you’re not just a stranger anymore. We’re both, like, Red Socks fans or, Yankees fans. In ways like make you have an intimacy very quickly. I remember when I went to the only Leeds United game that I’ve been to and I was maybe 14/15, and Leed’s scored. This like, very big shirtless man like, picked me up and hugged me, in a way that I was like-Also, a little afraid of ‘cause I think he had a couple of drinks. But, suddenly there’s this, yeah, shared identity which kind of makes our individual cares maybe disappear a little bit.

Vanessa: And I think that that gets to-the thing about fandom-is just that it’s heightened, right?

Casper: Yeah.

Vanessa: When you are a fan of something, everything is heightened. Your commitment to the thing, your passion of it, when someone disappoints you and you are a fan of them-

Casper: Heartbreaking-

Vanessa: -The disappointment is so much harder. And so I feel like the highs of being in an experience where you are a fan of something are so much higher and the lows are just devastating, right? And that can be everything from like, you know if you’re at a Yankees/Red Socks match and a Yankees fan and a Red Socks fan get into a fight. Or, a couple of years ago, a couple of Dodgers fans beat up a Giants fan into a coma. Right? Like, these-these things go sour so quickly. But then there are also these incredible moments where you have people who would usually not get along coming together over being a fan of a common team. So, I’m wondering what it is that sports represents to us that we feel as though so much of our identity is at stake in these moments.

Casper: That’s such a good question. And it’s not a new question. I mean, we think about bread-in circuses as a way to control the masses, right? The Olympics movement is a way to build peace through building relationships through sport. Like, sport is a tool for different purposes. So, I think it’s a super relevant question. I also feel like I notice that that kind of bigger identity feeds something in me that I want to feel. I want to feel part of something bigger. I wanna feel like my identity is aligned with a bigger story in some way. And this is the bit that kind of scares me, and I-I think Harry and Ron and the others do this a little bit as well is that you kind of forgive your side for doing things that you would never accept from an opposing side. Like, the United are known as “Dirty Leeds” because they’re always really aggressive, and like, as fans we kind of take pride in that. That’s not actually a nice thing. I feel like that serving of identity allows us to excuse things that we would never be okay with elsewhere.

Vanessa: So, is like, being a part of a fan community for a sports team-Is it similar to being a part of like a family? Or, is it similar to being a mob? Right?

Casper: I feel like, it’s more like you’re part of a nation-state. Like you learn only parts of its history and you celebrate only parts of its truths. And you kind of hide other things and it feels bigger than a family-

Vanessa: -And you’re like willing to go to war for it. I like the idea of being part of a fan community is being similar to being part of a nation. Because, Jerry Seinfeld has this great joke that at the end of the day you’re rooting for laundry. That like, when a certain player’s on your team you’re like: “Yeah! Shaquille O’Neil is the best!” when he was on The Lakers. And then he went to the Heat and you’re like: “Screw you Shaquille O’Neil you suck!”

Casper: All we care about is the jersey.

Vanessa: Right, and Shaquille O’Neil is not from either nor Miami, right? Like, this has nothing to do with where he is from, in any meaningful way. It is what shirt he is wearing. And so it seems different than a nation to me because your nation, to some extent, I mean it provides a cultural identity, it like feeds you, it’s the roads you drive. Whereas, what does a sports team give you?

Casper: That’s such a good point Vanessa. And I think maybe this is where there’s a difference between like a sports fandom and maybe like a fandom around a book or a movie. Because, you know, with , people chose this book. They chose this story in a way that is different from maybe growing up in a family where everyone loves the Lakers. And, when you get to chose, you get to chose what kind of fandom you want to enter. Whether that’s the RuPaul’s Drag Race fandom or the Harry Potter fandom which is, I think, one of the most generous and creative fandoms out there. And long lasting at this point. I mean, who would’ve thought there would be people in a recording studio, like, a decade later, still talking about what it means to us? It feels like those fandoms, you kind of get to chose your own adventure in terms of the values that you care about and the activities that you care about.

Vanessa: Yeah, so it does feel like sports fandom is a different sort of fandom. And sometimes you hear these great stories about: “Oh, well I’m a Dodgers fan because my grandfather was a Dodgers fan when they were in and there’s this like familial loyalty and acknowledgment of the arbitrariness. I just don’t think that there’s enough conversation about the arbitrariness of sports fandom given how high the stakes are. Of like, billions of galleons and like lives at stake, transportation systems are being built around this thing, and I think at the end of the day we just have to complicate that by reminding ourselves that this is-I just agree with Seinfeld-we’re cheering for laundry. Like, we’re not really cheering for Ireland, right?

Casper: Yeah, like who-who are we really cheering for? Is it these 7 players? Is it the idea that we have of who we are and, like, that we’re better than other people? What are we cheering for when we’re a fan? Like, is it what we hope we could be? I mean, that’s the other thing with-especially these incredible athletes, right? These two teams the Bulgarians and the Irish they’re doing things that Harry can’t do. He is looking in admiration. He’s using the omnioculars to slow things down to like- “Wow. How did they do that?” And that’s awesome when you play a sport and you go watch a professional and you’re like: “Oh my God!” I can only imagine how much work it takes to get there. So, it might be that that’s what we’re cheering? Like, human potential and physical progress. But, most of the time it feels like something-something baser and-and maybe more dangerous. Because, that’s what happens at the end of this chapter. Towards the next is when a group of people start cheering for these kind of hooded figures running rampage, you know, that’s another kind of team. And there’s another kind of fandom taking a real nasty turn. Vanessa, where else did you see kind of this theme of fandom show up in this chapter?

Vanessa: Yeah, so a big bright shinning moment to me was the team mascots to get to come and represent the team. And, the way that this is done in America, I don’t know if it’s the same with teams like Leeds, is that the mascot comes out in a big furry outfit with like a hundred half-naked women. And that is like a whole exploitation ring where like these women, for the most part, do not get paid well. They have to buy their own outfits, it’s like just an honor to be half-naked on the Cowboys field in January in the freezing cold. Great. But we see that so keenly in the choice with these two mascots with the Veeelas and the Leprechauns.

Casper: Mmm…

Vanessa: So the Veeelas put on this show that literally men are falling over themselves and risking humiliation-you know, the referee just like, starts flexing and publicly humiliating himself in front of a hundred thousand people-

Casper: Twirling his moustache-

Vanessa: -And flexing his muscles. I-I mean I guess I can ask you this as a question: What do we do with the Veeelas? So the Veeelas are set up as this like, beautiful amazing thing that men want to kill themselves over. And then when they start losing, they show their fangs. And then the Leprechauns rain fake money down.

Casper: I mean the Veeelas are sent out to shift the crowd’s allegiance, right? Harry says at the end of his kind of inner monologue while there had been no question about who he’d be supporting, of course he’d support Bulgaria-

Vanessa: -Yeah and Ron starts like tearing up his Irish rosette and is like: “Ireland? Whatever!”

Casper: And the Leprechauns are throwing out this money, right? So they’re both trying to shift the audience’s loyalty in some way. And it feels like both of the two things, both the Veeela and the Leprechauns are offering something that, kind of is metaphoric for what being a fan of a sports team is about you know? The Veeelas are like hypnotizing you into kind of being just dedicated and loyal, but you’re not getting anything back from them. And then, like, the Leprechauns like throwing money around as if like you’re gonna win all these riches if they win a game. And I guess through betting, like, that could happen. But, that itself is kind of a whole big exploitative industry. Most often, people end up losing money. So, both feel kind of the empty promise of what fandom can be if we’re not thoughtful about how we engage.

Vanessa: Yeah, and I was just thinking that they also represent sort of the spoils of war, right?

Casper: Whoa…

Vanessa: Like if you win a battle, you know, as a Roman soldier, you get to like rape and pillage, right? And so you take the women and the money. And it’s like that is the promise. It’s like, you win and you get the women and the money. And it just seems like this barbaric presentation of that. And again, with just like no self criticism or even self awareness. It’s like well, we’re in this space, we’re in this golden, shiny, dome with advertisements being splashed before our eyes and young children plucked from school. Probably, you know, to train on their rigorous Quidditch schedule, even though they are not of age. And then, if you win, you get the glory of money and women. Which, I just feel like is how we get young men to sign up for the army.

Casper: Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay, so, help me understand. What could the Veeela’s anger at the end mean? If those are the spoils of war, what might that kind of-The fangs, the-the range…

Vanessa: So, I don’t think it implies something like great and strong about women. But, I would like in this moment, that we right now are in the middle of women realizing finally that they are being believed when they accuse men of sexual assault, right? Like, that is the moment we are in. And suddenly, the world believes women when they say: “I’ve been assaulted.” And, I think that we do hear this, like, beautiful rage of like: “Okay, now you’re listening? Listen to how much you’ve hurt us.” And I feel like it’s the flip side of being a woman I think. Is if you are allotted for your beauty and you’re harassed for your beauty-Underneath that there is rage.

Casper: Well and the terrifying this is that Arthur is able to just put some earbuds in and the Veeelas have like zero power anymore. So just that-I’m so struck by the image you’re using of being listened to. How tender that current commitment is. And I’m sure, not everyone women gets listened to, you know, in the way some people who are coming forward-Thank God-are being listened to now.

Vanessa: Well done you.

(Sacred Reading theme music plays)

Vanessa: Casper, this week we are going to do the spiritual practice of: Havruta. And, it’s my turn to bring you a question and a potential answer. So, my question for you is: Why does everybody sort of seem to agree that Krum made the right decision by catching the snitch? When Krum catches the snitch, he knows that in catching it his team is gonna lose. And yet, it doesn’t seem as though a coach has said to him-like, make the decision. The only sort of inner thoughts we get is Harry says: “My theory is, he wanted to end it on his own term. The Irish chasers were too good. Bulgaria was never gonna catch up.” And like, everybody seems to sort of buy that theory. Nobody seems like, mad at him. There’s sort of this feeling like: “Oh, it’s too bad the match didn’t last longer.” Like, people didn’t get their money’s worth like this was such a short match. And the only reason I can think is that we want to keep our heroes our heroes. And so, we justify their behavior. But, the question is like: “Do we actually think that this was a good choice that he made?” And my answer is “No.” It was incredibly selfish. Go down fighting with your team. Believe in your teammates and give them a chance. Keep blocking the snitch if you’re the best flyer in the world make sure that the other team doesn’t catch the snitch and wait ‘till you’re down by 300 points. They only lost by 10.

Casper: You know what Vanessa, that’s a really interesting question. And, I hadn’t thought of this until now. But, I actually think that Krum was late. I think that the whole Bulgarian strategy-They always knew they were gonna lose the goals, and so, like it was Krum’s job to get that snitch before they could score 150 points or whatever it was. And like, they’ve done that now. And so, the sooner he can get it the more he rescues his own reputation.

Vanessa: Fascinating.

Casper: I think that was their whole strategy.

Vanessa: I love that theory. And that he is actually-

Casper: -Like, he’s already failed.

Vanessa: -He’s doing the best that he can.

Casper: Which is why he’s not celebrating in any way.

Vanessa: Right. Oh, that is such an interesting way to read it. Krum is a failed hero-

Casper: -Yeah,

Vanessa: -Rather than, as a success.

Casper: Yeah.

Vanessa: I mean, Fred and George even, that puts their bet into a totally different light. ‘Cause I thought of their bet as their like fundamental belief in Krum’s ability. But if they really believed in Krum, they would have believed that Krum could get the snitch-

Casper: -Right.

Vanessa: -Before the goals were even…

Casper: Right.

Vanessa: That’s so interesting. So, I mean, then I feel like the question is: “What are strategies that are just based on one person?” Right? And we see that in politics right now, right? Where like some of Trump’s ideas-When presented by not Trump aren’t as successful, right? And, we talk a lot in like the non-profit space about founder’s syndrome. When you’re sort of not attached to the mission or the skill, but, you’re just attached to the charisma of a person.

Casper: Even when that person says, you know like President Obama, like: “This is not about me, it’s about this bigger movement.” And yet, so much of our admiration and loyalty is to President Obama.

Vanessa: Right? And Krum might have said like: “A one-man strategy for a 7-person team is a bad idea. Because, like, if I don’t see the snitch there’s only so many faking out things I can do and there’s like only so much looking I can do.”

Casper: Right.

Vanessa: And so, yeah, I think maybe the real lesson of this Havruta is that like any strategy that revolves too much around one person is a bad idea.

Casper: Right.

Vanessa: And, you know, and if that wasn’t the strategy and if Krum just took this upon himself then like, one man acting alone is a bad idea. Either way, doing something too much on your own-Which is so interesting because it’s sort of the central theme of the book, right?

Casper: Right. Absolutely. This belief that Harry has that, either he’s the only one that can do it, or, he’s the only one who should do it. For different reasons, you know, he doesn’t want to hurt other people so “I’ll do it alone.” Well, that doesn’t work. And that’s the great lesson that he learns is to trust and rely on others and that other people care as much about the things that he does. And will do their very best and will have gifts that he doesn’t have in order to serve that task.

Vanessa: Right, and even in the ways that he is uniquely qualified, you know, the way that Krum is uniquely qualified, the very end of book 7 he still needs Neville to take care of Nagini.

Casper: Right.

Vanessa: Right?

Casper: Right.

Vanessa: Like, he’s the only one that can march into that forest but he still needs other people. And so, yeah, the Bulgarian team, like, you just-you can’t build a team around one person.

Casper: And I think we see that, you know, as we go through the Triwizarding Tournament. We see Cedric and Harry build this relationship of-of ultimately trust and friendship so that they both grab the cup at the same time. And especially though Hermione, there’s an opportunity for him to build some sort of link to the other participants. But he’s, you know, very individualist and quite crude. Right? His tactic of making himself have a shark head to get through the second challenge. There’s an individualism and kind of a brute force-uh-rather than a strategic team work relational approach that Krum exhibits.

Casper: Vanessa it’s time for an ad. Vanessa, our self created sponsor this week is an idea that we’re inviting all our listeners to do. Which is, in the first week of January, to host a little viewing party for all 8 Harry Potter movies. One every night, with a double bill on Sunday afternoon.

Vanessa: I would just like to say that Casper and I were friends before we co-hosted uh-Harry Potter week together. But, it really did solidify our friendship.

Casper: Yeah we did it a couple of years ago. First week of January it’s cold, a little snowy out here in and we would go from one person’s house to the next, everyone would bring some food, we’d have dinner, watch the movie together-All I could do when I was walking or cycling somewhere was go (sings Hedwig’s Theme). ​ ​

Vanessa: And I don’t want to say that hosting a Harry Potter week is gonna change your life. But, I am gonna say that the night that I hosted, Casper brought over these two lovely humans who really bonded with my dog and I am now the Godmother to their child.

Casper: So, you never know what might happen. We’ll put up a blog post with some more examples of what you can do. But it’s a really fun thing. Especially, after the holidays when, you know, everyone seems a little dulled out and this is a good way to get people together and just celebrate the magic.

Vanessa: Yeah, and I like the rigor of it. It’s ambitious. You’re like: We’re going to get together every night this week. Like, that is what we’re doing this week is we are watching Harry Potter. It is not for the weak hearted.” And, we didn’t do Harry Potter week as a fundraiser, but we did a similar thing with The Sound of Music last year where we raised money for the International Rescue Committee and another immigration justice organization. And so, if you want to do your Harry Potter week as a fundraiser, I’m just gonna put a plug-in for the Houston SPCA. They are still raising money to help place dogs that are victims of Hurricane Harvey and it’s really amazing the way that Houston has come back together and is being rebuilt and having the flooding dealt with so quickly. But, a lot of people had to leave their pets behind because pets were not allowed in the shelters. And so, if you want to donate money and really make a difference in the life of a human who will know that it’s pet is being taken care of and a pet go to: Houstonspca.org and they have a match grant going on right now so, even if you only donate $5 it’s really like donating $10. On their website you get to see cute pictures of dogs, even Casper who’s dead inside went: “Awww!” when I showed him. So go to: Houstonspca.org and go to our website: harrypottersacredtext.com to read about how you can host your own Harry Potter week and let us know how it goes! Send us emails, send us-make videos while you’re all together and send them to us.

Casper: (whispers) Oh my God. That would be so fun! We can get like a whole across the country-across the world Harry Potter watching parties.

Vanessa: Yeah, no, we’ll send out more information as we get closer to the first week of January. But, we’ll be doing it so we hope that you join us.

Casper: This week’s voicemail is from Fran Smith.

(Beep)

Fran: Hi Casper, Vanessa, Ariana. My name’s Fran I’m from Somerset, England. And, I have a Harry Potter story that I thought you might like to hear. So, when I was nine, back in the late ninety’s, mid-nineties, my mum died and it was just my two sisters and my dad at home. And, I helped my dad, um, write an advert and-and find a nanny to look after us girls while he was at work. Um, and we had various applicants and one of them was a single mum with a daughter looking for a-a nice family environment for the two of them to live in. And, my dad was quite open on employing this lady, who just so happened to be an author um and (he) asked me how I thought about and I was very strongly against the idea. Um, flash-forward five or so years later, and it’s Christmas and we’re watching the TV show with-about the success of Harry Potter and about J.K. Rowling’s story and my dad turns to me and says: “I’m pretty sure that lady applied to come be our nanny.” And ever since, it’s kind of just been family legend that it was J.K.Rowling and-whether it was or not we don’t really know, we never can know. But, we’ve just pretty much assumed it was her. And, it’s really played on my mind over the years, because, in the decades after my mum died, the Harry Potter books have been such a source of comfort and escape and joy and I’m one of those people who just rereads the books, on repeat, continuously. Which I keep telling myself I should stop doing but I keep doing. So, I’ve always felt this tremendous guilt that this lady, potentially who brought so much joy into my life was someone who-When she really needed a shot, I said “no” to. But on the other hand, I was nine, my mum had died I didn’t want people in my home. But I guess what I learned from it was even when you’re in a really tough spot, you probably have the opportunity to help people. And, it’s probably best for everyone if you do. So, thanks to the podcast. I love it. You make my commute better and I love experiencing the books through you guys again. Okay, cheers. Bye.

Casper: Frances, I love that you’ve just embraced the mystery of whether it was her or not doesn’t matter. But it’s the idea of someone who, you know, might be in a place of need can create something so magical that serves not only you, but like, so many of us around the world. Um, it’s wonderful. And, yeah, don’t feel guilty you were nine.

Vanessa: And she, if it was J.K. Rowling, she ended up okay.

Casper: Just fine. In fact, do you think your dad would still have her contact details?

Casper: Vanessa it’s time for us to offer a blessing to someone from the pages of this chapter. Who are you giving your blessing to today?

Vanessa: So, I would like to offer a blessing for the Veeelas. We hear a lot about the experience of all the people watching the Veeelas, including the women’s experiences of how frustrating it is to watch the men act like such jerks. And, I just wonder about the internal lives of the Veeelas. What if feels like to be this object of desire and then this like rage object. And I know I’ll never know the internal like of a Veeela, but, it’s just a reminder to me of like, all of the people in the margins of my life who’s lives I should be wondering at. So, I would like to offer a blessing for this creature that I know very little about but I’m sure struggles in a lot of big ways. So, a blessing to the Veeelas. What about you Casper? Who would you like to bless?

Casper: My blessing is actually someone who is only mentioned in the pages of this chapter. Is that allowed?

Vanessa: Interesting. I’ll allow it.

Casper: I just feel-I feel so enamored with Dobby. Right? First, Harry sees Winky from the back and he’s like: “Oh it’s an elf! It must be Dobby.” But it’s not, it’s Winky. And she mentions that, you know, Dobby’s got ideas above his station. You know? “House Elves do as we’re told.” And I love that Dobby is just like smashing that sense of self censorship and self editing and yeah, really internalized lack of self worth. Because, Dobby’s just liberating himself from everything. He’s like: “Yes, I am worth it.” And “Yes, I deserve to be paid.” And “No, I won’t work if I’m not being paid.” At risk of being ostracized by his own elf community as it were. So, I guess this blessing is for anyone who is doing the work of liberating their heart and mind and, yeah, willing to step forward into their life in a new way. I want to do more of that.

(Outro Music Begins)

Casper: You’ve been listening to Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. ​

Vanessa: The what?

Casper laughs

Vanessa: I’ve never heard of it.

Casper: That sounds weird.

Vanessa: Is it any good?

Casper: What-wh-Sacred?

Vanessa: Would I like it?

Casper: Is it Christian?

Vanessa: Yeah… Probably.

Casper: Follow us on , , , and Instagram, and leave us a review on iTunes. You can also send us a voicemail to [email protected]. Next week we’ll read “The Dark Mark” through the theme of: Grudges. This episode is produced by Ariana Nedelman, me, Casper ter Kuile, and Vanessa Zoltan. Our music is by Ivan Pyzow and Nick Bohl. And we are part of the Panoply Network. You can find ours and other great shows on ​ ​ panoply.fm.

th th Vanessa: And come out to see us at PodCon December 9 ​ and 10 ​ in Seattle, Washington. ​ ​

Casper: Thanks to Kevin T. Porter for sharing his story, for Fran Smith for this week’s voicemail. Our social media manager is Harshi Hettige. Thanks to Rebecca and Charlie Ledley and, of course, Stephanie Paulsell. We’ll see you all next week.

Vanessa: Bye.

(Outro Music Ends)

Vanessa: So, we’re very ex-We’re very excited today because we are being welcome by a special guest, Kevin T. Porter.

Casper: I love that we’re being welcomed.

Laughs

Kevin: I welcome you to your podcast! Hello! It’s good for you to have finally joined.

Casper: Thank you I really appreciate it.

Vanessa: So out of it guys.

Ariana: Let’s take that again.

Vanessa: Shut up.

Laughs