March 11, 2008 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H1503 2008 has brought discredit to the House of A recorded vote was ordered. Conaway Johnson, Sam Porter Crenshaw Jones (NC) Price (GA) Representatives: Now, therefore, be it The vote was taken by electronic de- Resolved, That the House of Representa- Cubin Jordan Putnam tives should immediately consider a motion vice, and there were—ayes 218, noes 192, Culberson Keller Radanovich answered ‘‘present’’ 1, not voting 18, as Davis (KY) King (IA) Ramstad to concur in the Senate amendment to the Davis, David King (NY) Regula bill, H.R. 3773. follows: Davis, Lincoln Kingston Rehberg The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the [Roll No. 116] Davis, Tom Kirk Reichert gentleman from Georgia wish to be Deal (GA) Kline (MN) Renzi AYES—218 Dent Knollenberg Reynolds heard on whether or not the resolution Abercrombie Green, Gene Obey Diaz-Balart, L. Kuhl (NY) Rogers (AL) constitutes a question of the privileges Ackerman Grijalva Olver Diaz-Balart, M. LaHood Rogers (KY) of the House? Allen Gutierrez Ortiz Doolittle Lamborn Rogers (MI) Mr. PRICE of Georgia. I do. Altmire Hall (NY) Pallone Drake Lampson Rohrabacher Andrews Hare Pascrell Dreier Latham Roskam The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen- Duncan LaTourette Arcuri Harman Pastor Royce Ehlers Latta Ryan (WI) tleman is recognized. Baca Hastings (FL) Paul Emerson Lewis (CA) Sali Mr. PRICE of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, Baird Herseth Sandlin Payne English (PA) Lewis (KY) Saxton we are now 25 days into a unilateral Baldwin Higgins Perlmutter Everett Linder Schmidt Bean Hill Peterson (MN) disarmament, a disarmament that Fallin LoBiondo Sensenbrenner Becerra Hinchey Pomeroy Feeney Lucas Sessions doesn’t make any sense to our con- Berkley Hinojosa Price (NC) Ferguson Lungren, Daniel Shadegg stituents in each and every district Berman Hirono Rahall Flake E. Shays Berry Hodes Reyes across this Nation. Forbes Mack Shimkus Bishop (GA) Holden Richardson The Senate voted 68–29, 68–29. Fortenberry Manzullo Shuster Bishop (NY) Holt Rodriguez Mr. HOYER. Mr. Speaker, the issue Fossella Marchant Simpson Blumenauer Honda Ross that the gentleman needs to address Boren Hoyer Foxx McCarthy (CA) Smith (NE) Rothman Franks (AZ) McCaul (TX) Smith (NJ) himself to is why this is a privilege of Boswell Inslee Roybal-Allard Boucher Israel Frelinghuysen McCotter Smith (TX) the House. I suggest that the Speaker Ruppersberger Gallegly McCrery Stearns Boyd (FL) Jackson (IL) Ryan (OH) make sure he is talking to that point. Boyda (KS) Jackson-Lee Garrett (NJ) McHenry Sullivan Salazar Gerlach McHugh Terry The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen- Brady (PA) (TX) Sa´ nchez, Linda Braley (IA) Jefferson Gilchrest McKeon Thornberry tleman from Maryland is correct. The T. Gingrey McMorris Tiahrt Butterfield Johnson (GA) Sanchez, Loretta gentleman from Georgia may only ad- Capps Johnson, E. B. Gohmert Rodgers Tiberi dress the rule IX issue. Sarbanes Goode Mica Turner Capuano Jones (OH) Schakowsky Mr. PRICE of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I Cardoza Kagen Goodlatte Miller (FL) Upton Schiff Granger Miller (MI) Walberg would draw my colleague’s attention to Carnahan Kanjorski Schwartz Carney Kaptur Graves Miller, Gary Walden (OR) the context in the stated ‘‘whereas’’ Scott (GA) Hall (TX) Moran (KS) Walsh (NY) Castor Kennedy Scott (VA) that on at least one occasion, if not Chandler Kildee Hastings (WA) Murphy, Tim Wamp Serrano Clarke Kind Hayes Musgrave Weldon (FL) countless others across this Nation, in Sestak Clay Klein (FL) Heller Myrick Weller the Charleston Post and Courier, it was Shea-Porter Cleaver Kucinich Hensarling Neugebauer Westmoreland Sherman written that the House of Representa- Clyburn Langevin Herger Nunes Whitfield (KY) Shuler tives’ Democrat leadership was de- Cohen Larsen (WA) Hobson Pearce Wilson (NM) Sires Conyers Larson (CT) Hoekstra Petri Wilson (SC) scribed as ‘‘indeed causing a poten- Skelton Cooper Lee Hulshof Pickering Wittman (VA) Slaughter tially dangerous gap in the Nation’s de- Costa Levin Hunter Pitts Wolf Smith (WA) fenses’’ and ‘‘creating an unnecessary Costello Lewis (GA) Inglis (SC) Platts Young (AK) Snyder Courtney Lipinski Issa Poe Young (FL) cloud of uncertainty in a critical area Solis of intelligence operations where there Cramer Loebsack ANSWERED ‘‘PRESENT’’—1 Crowley Lofgren, Zoe Space should be great clarity.’’ Cuellar Lowey Spratt Johnson (IL) There have been multiple articles Stark Cummings Lynch NOT VOTING—18 Davis (AL) Mahoney (FL) Stupak and multiple references across this Na- Sutton tion as to why this House of Represent- Davis (CA) Maloney (NY) Bishop (UT) Mitchell Ros-Lehtinen Davis (IL) Markey Tanner Capito Oberstar Rush atives is bringing discredit to the DeFazio Marshall Tauscher Ellsworth Pence Souder House and also not fulfilling its respon- DeGette Matheson Taylor Hooley Peterson (PA) Tancredo sibility, in fact, abrogating its respon- Delahunt Matsui Thompson (CA) Kilpatrick Pryce (OH) Thompson (MS) DeLauro McCarthy (NY) Tierney Miller, George Rangel Woolsey sibility and its duty. An abrogation of Dicks McCollum (MN) Towns duty by this House of Representatives Dingell McDermott Tsongas b 1718 brings discredit to the House, and, Doggett McGovern Udall (CO) Udall (NM) So the motion to table was agreed to. therefore, this is a question of privi- Donnelly McIntyre Doyle McNerney Van Hollen The result of the vote was announced lege. Edwards McNulty Vela´ zquez as above recorded. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Ellison Meek (FL) Visclosky A motion to reconsider was laid on Chair is prepared to rule. Emanuel Meeks (NY) Walz (MN) Wasserman the table. Under the precedents recorded in sec- Engel Melancon Eshoo Michaud Schultz tion 702 of the House Rules and Man- Etheridge Miller (NC) Waters f ual, the resolution addresses a legisla- Farr Mollohan Watson tive sentiment and not a question of Fattah Moore (KS) Watt INTELLIGENCE AUTHORIZATION Waxman the privileges of the House. Filner Moore (WI) ACT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2008 VETO Foster Moran (VA) Weiner MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT Mr. PRICE of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I Frank (MA) Murphy (CT) Welch (VT) appeal the ruling of the Chair. Giffords Murphy, Patrick Wexler OF THE UNITED STATES The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Gillibrand Murtha Wilson (OH) The SPEAKER pro tempore. The un- Gonzalez Nadler Wu question is, Shall the decision of the Gordon Napolitano Wynn finished business is the further consid- Chair stand as the judgment of the Green, Al Neal (MA) Yarmuth eration of the veto message of the House? President on the bill (H.R. 2082) to au- NOES—192 MOTION TO TABLE OFFERED BY MR. HOYER thorize appropriations for fiscal year Mr. HOYER. Mr. Speaker, I move to Aderholt Blunt Burgess 2008 for intelligence and intelligence- Akin Boehner Burton (IN) lay the appeal on the table. Alexander Bonner Buyer related activities of the United States The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Bachmann Bono Mack Calvert Government, the Community Manage- question is on the motion to table. Bachus Boozman Camp (MI) ment Account, and the Central Intel- The question was taken; and the Barrett (SC) Boustany Campbell (CA) Barrow Brady (TX) Cannon ligence Agency Retirement and Dis- Speaker pro tempore announced that Bartlett (MD) Broun (GA) Cantor ability System, and for other purposes. the ayes appeared to have it. Barton (TX) Brown (SC) Carter The Clerk read the title of the bill. RECORDED VOTE Biggert Brown, Corrine Castle The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Bilbray Brown-Waite, Chabot Mr. PRICE of Georgia. Mr. Speaker, I Bilirakis Ginny Coble question is, will the House, on recon- demand a recorded vote. Blackburn Buchanan Cole (OK) sideration, pass the bill, the objections

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00057 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 0634 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE H1504 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE March 11, 2008 of the President to the contrary not- policy trouble. An independent CIA So today, Mr. Speaker, I urge my col- withstanding? audit is one way to prevent problems leagues to vote to override the Presi- (For veto message, see proceedings of that have embarrassed our Nation and dent’s veto. the House of March 10, 2008, at page have eroded our moral authority. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of H1419) The authorization act also requires my time. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen- detailed accounting to Congress on the Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I yield tleman from Texas (Mr. REYES) is rec- use of intelligence contractors. The use myself as much time as I may con- ognized for 1 hour. of contractors has grown exponen- sume. Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, for pur- tially, and no one is asking critical Mr. Speaker, this bill is just the lat- poses of debate only, I yield the cus- management questions about whether est example of the complete and utter tomary 30 minutes to the distinguished this is a good use of taxpayer money. failure of the Democratic leadership in gentleman from Michigan (Mr. HOEK- An important substantive provision the House to give the intelligence com- STRA). Pending that, I yield myself of the legislation also requires the CIA munity the tools that it needs to pro- such time as I may consume. and the rest of the intelligence commu- tect the American people and our allies Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of over- nity to abide by the same regulations from radical jihadists who have sworn riding the President’s veto. This year, that DOD follows in the context of in- to wage holy war against freedom in for the first time in 3 years, the Con- terrogations. If it’s not permissible for order to impose a radical religious tyr- gress passed an intelligence authoriza- soldiers in Iraq, where they face a life- anny. I urge my colleagues to oppose tion act and presented it to the Presi- or-death threat daily, it shouldn’t be this override of the President’s veto. dent. This was something that had permissible for a CIA officer or con- My colleagues on the other side of proved impossible for a Republican- tractor. the aisle are finding out how tough it controlled House and a Republican- Mr. Speaker, if this veto stands, all is to pass legislation in the intelligence controlled Senate. In recent years, of these important oversight provisions area. But the lesson they need to learn, while the bill passed the House, it will disappear. If we believe in strong this is about national security, and na- never even got to conference. When I oversight, we need to override this tional security issues need to be done took over as chairman of the Intel- veto. on a bipartisan basis, can not be done ligence Committee, I made passing an In addition to addressing long ig- on a purely partisan basis. authorization all the way through con- nored oversight issues, the legislation The debate on this authorization bill ference a high priority. It wasn’t easy, is fundamentally the mechanism for is not about a single issue, as some but I thought it was crucial that we re- authorizing funds for the intelligence would have you believe. It is about the vitalize the oversight process, and I community. This legislation authorizes need to ensure that we give the right committed to getting an authorization funds for the full range of critical in- tools to our intelligence professionals telligence activities. It authorizes bill not only passed through the House in this time of enhanced threat. What funds to support counterterrorism op- but sent to the President. we should be talking about today is im- The intelligence community, by its erations to keep Americans safe today, proving this bill so that it can have very nature, presents a very difficult and it authorizes funds for the stra- broad bipartisan support. tegic intelligence investments to keep oversight challenge for Congress. This But we also ought to be talking Americans safe in the future. is why the intelligence authorization about FISA, FISA modernization. That Mr. Speaker, if we fail to override is the vote that this House should be bill is so critical. It is the culmination this veto, the Intelligence Committee considering. That is the tool that our of the committee’s oversight activities will be silent on these important au- intelligence community has said that conducted over the previous year. In- thorization issues. Once more, we’ll they need to keep America safe. That telligence funding is one of the few have no authorization bill. areas where the law requires funds to The bill also addresses some per- is the tool that, on a broad bipartisan be both appropriated and authorized. sistent management problems in the basis, the model for how we should be Our constituents, of course, are de- intelligence community. It requires doing legislation in this area. It’s how manding that we weigh in on all the steps towards a multi-level security they did it in the Senate, 68 Senators important intelligence-related chal- clearance system to recruit more na- on a bipartisan basis saying we need to lenges that our Nation is facing. tive speakers of critical languages into do FISA reform. We need to do it to This legislation goes a long way to- our intelligence community. It takes keep America safe, to keep our home- wards strengthening oversight of the important steps towards creating a land safe, to keep our troops safe, to intelligence community, which the more diverse workforce to strengthen keep our embassies and our personnel President seems to consistently want our ability to collect intelligence all overseas safe, and to make sure that to fight. That’s why the President ve- over the world. we also have the tools in place that so toed it. He wants the authority to do Mr. Speaker, if we fail to override many of our allies rely on to keep them whatever he wants, in secret, with no this veto, it’s business as usual. No new safe. oversight or authorization or without solutions, just the same old intel- But no, once again, this House moves any checks and balances. ligence problems. in a partisan basis. It’s been almost 25 Well, Mr. Speaker, I don’t agree. The I have visited the patriotic men and days now that the leadership on the Constitution gives us a role in this women of the intelligence community other side of the aisle has refused to process. We do have a say, in the name in the far corners and in the far even bring up for a vote FISA mod- of the United States of America, in reaches all over the globe. They de- ernization. Each and every day, our ca- what the intelligence community does. serve our support. They are brave, they pabilities in this area erode. One of the That’s why we need to override this are competent, and, in most cases, they most important and one of the most veto. are humbled to be doing the job to keep successful tools that we have used to This legislation enhances oversight us safe. Many serve our Nation behind keep America safe over the last 7 years in several ways. It requires quarterly the scenes and at great risk, without is slowly eroding. My colleagues on the reports to Congress on the nuclear any expectation of recognition or con- other side of the aisle will not even weapons programs of Iran and North gratulations. For them, and for all allow it to come up for a vote. Korea. We learned a lesson from the ex- Americans, this is important legisla- The United States continues to em- perience in Iraq. Congress must be tion. ploy tough antiterrorist programs be- careful and must be part of the process The intelligence community came to cause the radical jihadist threat did and a consumer of intelligence to avoid us for money, they came to us for not end with 9/11. One only has to lis- being sold a bill of goods. tools, and they came to us for new au- ten to the statements by bin Laden, his The act requires the CIA inspector thorities. We gave them what they deputy, Zawahiri, to understand the se- general to audit covert activities at asked for. The President, with his veto, riousness of this threat, its global im- least once every 3 years. Covert activi- is denying them those very things sim- plications, and the determination of ties are historically where our intel- ply because he wants no limits on his radical jihadists to strike the Amer- ligence community runs into legal and Presidential power. ican homeland.

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00058 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 0634 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE March 11, 2008 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H1505 But instead of doing a bipartisan, na- tainee who is otherwise in custody of A bipartisan compromise in the other tional security issue, we continue to the U.S. military and must provide and body garnered 68 votes, and yet we move down the path of partisan poli- must abide by the Army Field Manual. can’t even have the leadership of this tics. The majority leadership of this The manual specifically prohibits eight House bring it up for a vote to be con- House refuses to see or hear the con- interrogation techniques, including sidered so that each individual Member tinuing threat from radical jihadists. waterboarding. Waterboarding is the can exercise his judgment or his or her Even more troubling, the majority re- technique which originated during the judgment or conscience in how they fuses to recognize that tough Spanish Inquisition and makes the per- vote. If that measure had been rejected antiterrorist tools employed since 2001 son who is being interrogated feel as by the House, it would be one thing; have protected this country from ter- though he is drowning. but to never allow it to come up means rorist attacks. One of the wisest of our Founding Fa- that the leadership of this House in- thers, Ben Franklin, once told us: sists on tying our hands, preventing b 1730 ‘‘Those who would give up essential lib- our national security professionals Instead, some have distorted anti- erty to purchase a little temporary from having the tools they need to do terrorist programs as threats to the safety deserve neither liberty nor safe- the job. I think that’s inexcusable. American people rather than tools that ty.’’ But that’s where we find ourselves This measure before us also ties the our intelligence agencies are using to on this issue. hands of our national security profes- protect us from threats of radical All of the very senior civilians in the sionals by limiting the interrogation jihadist terrorism. Instead of helping administration continue to waffle on techniques they can use, and even more to strengthen anti-terrorist tools, my whether waterboarding continues and than that, by broadcasting to the world colleagues on the other side of the aisle constitutes torture or cruel and inhu- the only interrogation techniques have established a clear patent of try- mane or degrading treatment. Our which can be used. It’s like giving al ing to undermine and erode them, un- military has stood up against this Qaeda the training manual that they dermining and eroding the very type of widely condemned practice. Our mili- need to prepare their people for. And I people that we should be trying to help tary understands the impact of the know that the chairman of the Armed with this bill, the men and women who Golden Rule: do unto others as you Services Committee just spoke. I won- risk their lives each and every day in would have them do unto you. der if he would be in support of just the intelligence community to keep Our military also appreciates that sending our battle plans out to any po- America safe. approved interrogation techniques that tential adversary saying this is what There is no better example than the are not cruel and inhumane or degrad- we are planning on doing. You all go outright refusal of the majority leader- ing have provided valuable intelligence ahead and get ready for it. We will tell ship to allow a straight up-or-down which has helped captured terrorist you in advance what our intentions vote on bipartisan FISA modernization kingpins and foiled terrorist attacks are. That’s essentially what this bill legislation. against our country as well as our al- does. Again, this is a bill that passed the lies. The sooner that we reclaim our And I note, Mr. Speaker, a writer, Stuart Taylor of National Journal, last Senate overwhelmingly, clearly sup- moral authority in the world by clearly December put the scenario pretty well. ported by a majority of this House. articulating which techniques we find He says, Imagine we get Osama bin There’s ample reason to be concerned to be abhorrent, regardless of the na- Laden or some high-level lieutenant about this abuse of the majority’s pow- tionality of the interrogator, the soon- with the intelligence reports that a ers. I’m far more concerned at the im- er we can better protect our homeland massive new al Qaeda attack may be pact that these actions are continuing and our folks in uniform who are in eminent. Here are the questions all to have and the capabilities of our in- harm’s way. Members ought to answer when consid- telligence professionals to protect our I strongly encourage all of my col- ering how they’re going to vote: Should country, our people, and our allies leagues in this body on both sides of it be illegal for CIA interrogators to from attack. the aisle to strengthen our national se- try to scare the person into talking by Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of curity by supporting this very fine bill. my time. Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I yelling at them? Should it be illegal to threaten to slap them in some way? Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I want to would like to yield 4 minutes to a Should it be illegal to pretend to be an bring us back on point by yielding 3 member of the committee from Texas interrogator from a different country? minutes to my good friend from Mis- (Mr. THORNBERRY). Should it be illegal to turn up the air- souri (Mr. SKELTON), the chairman of Mr. THORNBERRY. Mr. Speaker, I conditioning so they are uncomfort- the Armed Service Committee. rise in opposition to this bill and in op- ably cold? Should it be illegal to deny Mr. SKELTON. Mr. Speaker, I thank position to overriding the President’s them hot food while giving them all of the gentleman from Texas, the chair- veto. I think it’s fine for us to stand up the cold food that they want? man of the Select Committee on Intel- here on the floor and make all of the Because all of those things would be ligence, and a very valuable senior speeches we want about what the ad- illegal under the provision that’s in member of our committee, the Armed ministration has or has not done that this bill. It is not about waterboarding. Services Committee. we like; there are some of those criti- It is about having a guarantee of hot I rise in strong support of H.R. 2082. cisms of the administration that I food, comfortable temperature, no sort This bill makes us safer from terrorists might well agree with about what of deception, having no one raise their and other adversaries in a number of they’ve done in the past. But I think it voice against you. Those are the pro- ways: the bill makes critical invest- is a far different thing to stand up here tections for the terrorists that are in ments in human intelligence, counter- and argue that we should put into law this bill. terrorism operations, counter-pro- a measure that ties the hands of the I think that’s a mistake. I think it is liferation, counter-intelligence, anal- professionals we expect to keep us safe. a mistake to tell them what we are ysis and language skills. This bill ties the hands of our na- going to do, and I think it is a mistake In addition, Chairman REYES’ con- tional security professionals in a num- to take options off the table like turn- ference report includes a provision ber of ways. One way is that it does not ing up the air-conditioning. which requires that all interrogations update the FISA law, which may well These provisions, not having the conducted by intelligence agents and be the most important single thing the FISA modernization, limiting their in- contractors comply with the Army intelligence community does today terrogation methods, treat our Amer- Field Manual on Interrogation. Our that helps keep us safe. And, in fact, as ican professionals as the problem, and military already has raised its stand- the gentleman from Michigan noted, that’s the problem with this bill. It ards. we are nearly 30 days beyond the expi- should be rejected. Since September 2006, all interroga- ration date of the Protect America Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, continuing tions which are conducted by the men Act; and every day that goes by makes on this parallel universe, I now yield 3 and women in uniform are conducted us more vulnerable to a terrorist at- minutes to the gentlewoman from Cali- by non-military personnel on a de- tack. fornia (Ms. ESHOO), who chairs one of

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00059 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 0634 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE H1506 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE March 11, 2008 our subcommittees, the Subcommittee were. Then we finally got a list, belat- this year. I mentioned that I thought on Intelligence Community Manage- edly. We got the list of earmarks, I that they were, in fact, a little strong- ment. think, about 5 hours after the deadline er than what we, as Republicans, had Ms. ESHOO. Mr. Speaker, I thank our for us to submit a list of earmarks that put there. Having said that, rules are very distinguished, wonderful chair- we wanted to challenge. How conven- only as good as your willingness to en- man of the House Intelligence Com- ient was that? force them, and the rules were not en- mittee. And we were told, No, it is just proce- forced here. We are here this evening for one rea- dural, but too late. You won’t be able Again, this legislation came to the son and one reason only: it is to over- to offer any amendments. We were told floor with earmarks that we were never ride the President’s veto of the House at the beginning of the process this able to challenge, that came after the authorization for the intelligence com- year that every earmark that was of- deadline when we were to submit the munity. And the reason, the stated rea- fered in a piece of legislation in a con- list to challenge. And then the House son, and the President said so, the rea- ference report, in a committee report acted, we acted to address, and with a son he vetoed the bill is because he is would be able to be challenged on the clear, sufficient majority said, let’s for torture. T-o-r-t-u-r-e. It’s what the House floor. That wasn’t the case here. take the earmarks out. But still they President said. We had 20-some earmarks worth about remained. This is a very sad, dark moment for $80 million that were never challenged I urge us all to sustain the Presi- our country that a President of the that still, to this day, cannot, have dent’s veto of this legislation. United States would remove all of the not, will not be challenged by this Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I would tools that we’ve provided for the intel- House. tell the gentleman from Arizona that ligence community in a post-9/11 world So that, for the process alone, we this veto is not about earmarks; it’s and say, Because you don’t allow tor- shouldn’t go forward with this piece of about torture. With that, I now yield 3 minutes to ture, I’m not for the bill. legislation. the gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Now, the President’s position is en- These weren’t just any earmarks. HOLT), who serves as the chairman of tirely inconsistent with our Nation’s One, $80 million worth; and, two, there the Select Intelligence Oversight history. The United States of America were big earmarks like $23 million for has long accepted that torture is be- Panel. the National Drug Intelligence Center. Mr. HOLT. Mr. Speaker, I thank the neath the standard of a civil nation. In This is a center that the President has chairman of the committee. 1947, the United States prosecuted a been trying to shut down for years be- When Congress passed this bill last Japanese military officer for carrying cause it doesn’t coordinate efforts as it year, I lauded several of its features, out a form of water torture on a U.S. should. It gets, I think, about $39 mil- provisions aimed at attracting and re- civilian. The military has frequently lion in the underlying bill and another taining people with good foreign lan- prosecuted American military per- $21 million in earmarked money in this guage capability and understanding of sonnel for subjecting prisoners to tor- piece of legislation. That’s $23 million foreign cultures, a provision bringing ture since the Spanish-American War. in taxpayer dollars in this piece of leg- speed to security clearance processes Our Nation was able to win two world islation. That’s $62 million in taxpayer for new hires, the provision directing wars and defeat a rising tide of com- funding for an entity that the Presi- the Director of National Intelligence to munism with a torture prohibition in dent and the executive branch want to establish a multilevel security clear- place. And I think that we can defeat close down, but it happens to be in the ance process, a provision requiring the America’s enemies today without low- district of a particular powerful Mem- inspector general to review all covert ering ourselves, without allowing our- ber, so it stays. Again, we weren’t able action programs, and a number of selves to become the organizers against to challenge that. other things. Getting these things us. That’s what we have done. And we That led, as we all know, to an alter- right is critically important because have not only degraded ourselves but cation on the House floor between a intelligence is among the most impor- helped to chip away at the magnificent few Members, a privileged resolution tant functions of our government. credibility of our great Nation that that was offered, but still, that ear- A good intelligence system can save people before us provided, and now we mark remains. All of these earmarks lives by preventing war, or, should war stand on their shoulders. And a Presi- that still haven’t been able to be chal- come, by helping to win the war as dent of the United States vetoes a bill lenged by the House remain in this quickly as possible. But a flawed intel- because he stands for torture. We piece of legislation. ligence system can be dangerous, as should slam that door shut. Mr. Speaker, if there was ever, ever a when intelligence is manipulated so as And the way we do it is by overriding case study in why we need an earmark to take America to war under false pre- this President’s veto. There isn’t any moratorium, it is this piece of legisla- tenses, or when fearsome powers of the room in our country for this. And for tion that we are dealing with right government are turned on its own citi- anyone to describe these things as now. No matter what you do, the ear- zens without checks and balances. In- being sissies because you stand against marks remain. We even had a motion deed, it’s because this President op- torture, that is really shameful. That’s to instruct offered by my colleague poses checks and balances on our intel- really shameful, with all due respect. from Michigan to take the earmarks in ligence system that we are forced to This is a tough position. It’s the this bill out, remove them because have this veto override today. right position. they haven’t been challenged, and they Let’s be clear, American personnel, So I urge my colleagues to vote to weren’t brought to the floor in the civilian or military, should never en- override the President’s veto because proper manner. gage in interrogation practices that that veto was about torture. amount to torture. The provision the Mr. HOEKSTRA. At this point in b 1745 President objects to would simply put time, I would like to yield 4 minutes to That motion to instruct passed with the entire U.S. Government under one the gentleman from Arizona (Mr. a vote of 249 votes in favor. A sufficient standard for interrogating detainees, FLAKE). number of Republicans and a signifi- the Army Field Manual. The heads of Mr. FLAKE. Mr. Speaker, I would cant number of Democrats voted for the Defense Intelligence Agency and like to bring another aspect for sus- that motion to instruct to take the the FBI have testified that the nontor- taining the President’s veto that earmarks out, but here we are with ture guidelines in this bill are adequate hasn’t been talked about yet. this piece of legislation here again for their people to follow in interroga- When this bill was brought to the today, and every one of those earmarks tion of dangerous people. floor initially, there were some 26 ear- still remains. You can’t take them out. If the President were serious about marks in the legislation. First we were We have to have a moratorium on restoring our reputation in the world told there are no earmarks. Then we earmarks so we can address this proc- and about providing moral and legal had kind of a wild goose chase up in ess. You can have good rules. And I clarity for all government employees the intelligence room to find if there commended the Democrats when they involved in the handling or interroga- were. We found out there actually put the rules in place in January of tion of detainees, he would never have

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00060 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 0634 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE March 11, 2008 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H1507 vetoed this bill. Providing that moral have damaged our Nation’s moral au- at the same time they’ve taken away and legal clarity is our constitutional thority and credibility around the our most effective tool, to try to deter- obligation. And to that end, I urge my world. mine exactly what al Qaeda may be up colleagues to join me in voting to over- There is a simple way to restore to. It is probably the most glaring defi- ride the President’s veto. some of our moral authority. It is in ciency in this bill, but there are many Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I yield this bill in the form of a provision others. 2 minutes to my colleague from Illinois mandating that all intelligence agen- It fails to provide adequate resources (Mr. KIRK). cies and those under contract or sub- for human intelligence. The earmarks Mr. KIRK. Mr. Speaker, I am four for contract with our intelligence agencies we’ve heard about. It fails to constrain five on veto overrides of our President, comply with the U.S. Army Field Man- the size of the intelligence bureauc- but this is not one of them. ual on interrogation guidelines. racy. It fails to rationalize how we’re This bill limits our intelligence pro- The interrogation rules in the Army going to put the intelligence commu- fessionals at a time when we need more Field Manual have served us well, but nity together. And then, interestingly people in the Office of the Director of don’t just take my word for it. Gen- enough, it continues the misplaced pri- National Intelligence. The bill fails to erals, intelligence professionals, dip- orities. provide tools to monitor foreign ter- lomats, religious leaders, and foreign We are unwilling to deal with FISA. rorist communications when we should leaders, many of them our closest al- We are unwilling to give that tool to be monitoring more of them. And it lies, have all spoken out against the our intelligence community, but we also provides less resources to our own use of coercive techniques such as feel that it’s more than appropriate to intelligence community, not more. waterboarding. tell our intelligence community to go The bill also does have earmarks in Consider the words of Navy Rear Ad- out and conduct a formal assessment of which the committee delayed publica- miral Mark Buzby, Commander of ‘‘national security,’’ the national secu- tion. Senators MCCAIN and CLINTON and Joint Task Force Guantanamo, which rity aspects of global warming. OBAMA all now support a complete is already required to comply with the Our intelligence professionals in the moratorium on earmarks this year, but Army Field Manual, who recently stat- field need to be really wondering this legislation does not do that. ed that ‘‘we get so much dependable in- what’s going on in the House, where We not only hamstring our intel- formation from just sitting down and they’ve now watched us for 30 days ligence community by this bill, we having a conversation and treating avoiding dealing with the tough issue waste millions of dollars on no or low them like human beings in a business- that has proven to be so effective in quality earmarks that have little util- like manner.’’ Or what about the ad- keeping America safe, and at the same ity to the intelligence community. We vice of the Republican Presidential time we’re arguing here, and the ma- jority is arguing that, forget about should bring back this bill without any nominee, Senator JOHN MCCAIN, who, spy pork. before changing his mind and joining surveilling al Qaeda and radical Mr. Speaker, I still serve in the intel- with President Bush to oppose this bill jihadists, take your resources and study national security aspects of glob- ligence community. We all know that and with it Congress’ effort to ban tor- al warming, although there’s many torture is illegal, and we all read the ture, stated that the issue of interroga- other agencies that already work on papers and know that all Republican tion was ‘‘a defining issue’’ and that in- and Democratic candidates for Presi- that. terrogation should be ‘‘humane and yet So, shelve FISA. As a matter of fact, dent are against waterboarding. So, in effective.’’ And that an Army general don’t even talk about FISA. Don’t even January of this year, that will be over, in Iraq had told him that ‘‘the tech- bring it to the floor. Don’t do any work but the rest of the issues in this bill niques under the Army Field Manual on it. Don’t put any proposals out will not. are working and working effectively, there. Have no bipartisan discussions Does this bill hamstring our commu- and he didn’t think they need to do on where we go with FISA. Leave that nity? It does. Does it fund 26 items of anything else.’’ on the shelf. Let our capabilities erode. spy pork? It does. And for these rea- In December, Congress made its voice Go out and study global warming. sons, we should not pass this flawed known and passed this critically im- What are the priorities of this House? piece of legislation. portant bill. With one flick of his pen, How are we going to keep America safe Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, again I the President tried to take our voice when we, on one hand, handcuff our in- would remind the gentleman that this way. I believe it is time to say once telligence community, and on the is not about spy pork; it’s about tor- and for all ‘‘no’’ to techniques like other hand, we’re telling them go out ture. waterboarding, ‘‘no’’ to torture, and and study the national security aspects With that, I now yield 3 minutes to ‘‘no’’ to this President’s attempt to le- of global warming? the gentlelady from Illinois, a valued gitimize his administration’s political With that, Mr. Speaker, I reserve the member of our committee, Ms. legacy at the cost of this Nation’s balance of my time. SCHAKOWSKY. moral authority. Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, on this Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. I thank our I urge all my colleagues to join with side, we believe that our very capable chairman for yielding me this time and me in voting to override the Presi- and dedicated men and women of the for his great leadership on this issue, dent’s veto. intelligence community can keep us and for making it clear that this veto Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I yield safe without torture. was about torture. myself 3 minutes. I now yield 3 minutes to the newest In December, I said that restrictions Mr. Chairman, it’s interesting that member of our Intelligence Committee, on the use of torture represented a bat- this debate is about something that the gentleman from California (Mr. tle for the soul of our country. Because hasn’t been done for 5 years. What we SCHIFF). the President chose to veto this criti- need to be talking about is what we Mr. SCHIFF. I thank the gentleman. cally important piece of legislation, haven’t been able to do for the last 30 Mr. Speaker, the fight against terror that battle continues today. days. is, at one level, a military struggle, but The way we treat our prisoners is a My colleagues on the other side of it is also, at its roots, a battle over fundamental measure of our character. the aisle are talking about a technique hearts and minds. It is what separates great nations with and a procedure that hasn’t been used On Sunday, we suffered a major set- moral authority to lead from other for 5 years, but they’re unwilling to back in that battle when the President lesser nations. talk about the technique that enables of the United States vetoed legislation The President’s national security us to identify what terrorists may have that would unequivocally state to the team has now publicly confirmed that planned for the United States. world that we do not condone torture the CIA waterboarded detainees. In- They don’t want to address giving in any form, in any place, under any credibly, President Bush and his advis- the tools to Americans who work in circumstance. Instead, by appearing to ers insist that they have the legal au- the intelligence community that have abandon the rule of law by appearing thority to do so again and that they proven to be effective. They’re willing to step away from the Geneva Conven- don’t consider it torture. These claims to give our playbook to al Qaeda, but tions, by failing to renounce the use of

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And if the Admin- When the Attorney General of the the tools that they need to keep Amer- istration and its apologists continue United States recently testified before ica safe so that we can better under- forcing America to abandon the rule of the Judiciary Committee, he could not stand the plans, the intentions, and the law and our long commitment to tell us if and when waterboarding con- capabilities of al Qaeda and other rad- human dignity, we will lose the war. stituted torture. He even suggested ical jihadists. The use of torture, which President that a determination whether some- That is where the Terrorist Surveil- Bush’s veto endorses, is not only un- thing constitutes torture depends on lance Program took root. Bipartisan, American; it is ineffective. That is one who is being subjected to the technique the President, the leadership of the reason why the Army Field Manual and the desirability of the information House and the Senate, the leadership of prohibits its use even when our mili- that is being sought. His testimony was the Intelligence Committees, and all of tary is in harm’s way. As General murky. It was ambiguous. It failed to them united in saying we need to give David Petraeus, our commander in establish any bright line for our per- this tool, this Terrorist Surveillance Iraq, wrote to his troops last year: ‘‘Be- sonnel or for the rest of the world. He Program, to our intelligence commu- yond the basic fact that such actions could only say that if it were done to nity because it will allow us to collect are illegal, history shows that they him, well, then that would be torture. the information, the data, that we can also are frequently neither useful nor Instead, the bright line standard, if use to keep America safe. And that necessary.’’ there was one to be found in his testi- program was in place for over 5 years. I say follow our generals, not the mony, and the one that he asked us to It was in place and it proved to be very Cheney ideologues, not the apologists. hold up to the rest of the world, was successful. And now for 30 days, almost Override this veto. Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I yield whether or not a harsh interrogation 30 days, we’ve been unable to use that myself 2 minutes. technique is part of a program author- tool. I applaud my colleagues for speaking Mr. Speaker, with that I reserve the ized by an attorney in the obscure Of- with such passion. I wish they had the balance of my time. fice of Legal Counsel. I am deeply con- same passion for addressing the tools Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I now yield cerned about what this says to our own that the leadership in the intelligence 3 minutes to the gentleman from Aus- personnel and about what it says to the community have said that they have tin, Texas (Mr. DOGGETT), who was just rest of the world. needed, that our intelligence profes- asking me, As I traveled around the This is, indeed, no intangible loss, for sionals who are in the field have said world, have any of our fine men and the effects of this failure of moral lead- that they have needed to keep America women in the intelligence community ership may tragically be visited on safe. And this leadership has been un- ever asked to be given the tool of tor- those brave men and women serving in willing to bring it up for almost 30 ture? and I said, No. our Armed Forces. days. Who among us can fail to recall the Mr. DOGGETT. I thank the gen- The tool that they want, the tool opening ways of the Iraq war when tleman for yielding. that they need, and the tool that has Mr. Speaker, with this veto, Presi- American troops had been captured and proven to be so effective is the Ter- were paraded in front of the cameras? dent Bush has once again failed to safe- rorist Surveillance Program, which is We were disgusted with their treat- guard our families. an updated version of FISA legislation. And what is this ‘‘waterboarding’’ ment, and rightfully so. If we hesitate, It takes the FISA legislation, it moves that the President so readily em- equivocate, or otherwise fail to ban the it forward, and it updates it. But for al- use of waterboarding, how can we have braces? It sounds a little like a cousin most 30 days, that tool has been erod- any confidence that when American of skateboarding or snowboarding. But, ing, putting our troops at risk, putting troops are captured they will not be in fact, it is a new name for an old our homeland at greater risk, putting subjected to this form of torture? How water torture in which a human being other U.S. personnel who are oversees can we make the case that other na- is drowned. The drowning is controlled at greater risk, and putting our allies tions or other enemies must not tor- to force a response, but waterboarding who depend so often on the work of our ture because we don’t torture? How can is simply a euphemism for torture by intelligence community, putting them we win the battle for hearts and minds drowning. at greater risk. As al Qaeda in Iraq has if we surrender our most powerful Now, President Bush is not the first said they want to attack Jerusalem, as weapon, the power of our good exam- Texan to think of this and to believe Hezbollah has said that they intend to ple? that horrific wrongs can justify drown- retaliate for the death of Mughniyah 3 ing of the culprit. An earlier Texas b 1800 or 4 weeks ago, as the radicals seek to waterboarder is not in the White destabilize the regimes in the Middle Mr. Speaker, I urge the override of House; he was sent to the Big House. A East of modern Islamic countries, peo- the President’s veto. Texas judge said that this ple that are working with us in the war Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I yield waterboarding Texas sheriff put law and the threat against radical myself 2 minutes. enforcement ‘‘in the hands of a bunch jihadists, our answer to them is we’re Again, the debate is about a bill that of thugs’’ that would ‘‘embarrass a dic- going to curtail our intelligence activi- the President has outlined in his veto tator.’’ The sheriff was sentenced to 10 ties, and as a result, you will be at statement is deeply flawed, deeply years. That judge was right, and this greater risk because we are going to be flawed in the content of what is in the administration is so very wrong. of less assistance. We are not going to bill as to what it directs the President America seems to have been sen- be able to give you the intelligence to do and the limitations that it places tenced to 8 years of DICK CHENEY, who that you’ve been receiving for the last on the executive branch in being able claims that such water torture is a ‘‘no 5 years because our techniques are lim- to conduct the war against radical brainer.’’ ‘‘No brainer’’—that sounds ited. jihadists effectively. like a good way to describe how so Mr. Speaker, with that I reserve the But it’s also clear that the message many of this Administration’s policies balance of my time. clearly outlines the deficiencies of have been made. Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I now yield what is not in the bill: the inability Torture is no proper tool in the arse- 2 minutes to the chairwoman of the and unwillingness of the Democratic nal of democracy. Torture is foreign to Homeland Security Subcommittee on leadership to bring to the House the our values, foreign to our history, for- Intelligence, Information Sharing and Senate-passed FISA modernization eign to our religions, foreign to our Terrorism Risk Assessment, the gen- bill; a bill that reflects the values of laws, and it is foreign to our inter- tlewoman from California (Ms. HAR- the Speaker of the House; a bill that national commitments. There can be MAN). reflects the values of the current no compromise, no middle ground. We Ms. HARMAN. I thank the gentleman Speaker of the House when she was on must have zero tolerance for torture. for yielding.

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00062 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 0634 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE March 11, 2008 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H1509 Mr. Speaker, for the last several with a very narrow majority. It passed ing more vulnerable to radical years, Congress has been unable to pass the House on a partisan vote. That’s jihadists and other groups who want to an intelligence authorization bill. This not how you’re going to get it done. harm America. means that the Intelligence Com- You’re going to do it the same way With that, I reserve the balance of mittee, entrusted with major respon- that the Senate has done the FISA bill. my time. sibilities, a committee on which I was But the interesting thing is the Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I say to the proud to serve for 8 years, 4 of those as model for getting something done, gentleman from Michigan, it won’t be ranking member, has been prevented which is a bipartisan bill, which is interesting if this veto is sustained. It from setting the direction for our intel- what we did on intelligence reform, we will be a sad day for this country be- ligence community. had Republicans and Democrats who cause it will be sustaining torture. Finally this year, Mr. Speaker, the came together to make it a majority; With that, I now yield 2 minutes to House and Senate agreed on a respon- and we also had Republicans and the gentleman from New York, the val- sible bill and included in that respon- Democrats who opposed us, and it was ued member of the Judiciary Com- sible bill language to end the so-called sometimes very painful. Now, when the mittee, Mr. NADLER. ‘‘CIA loophole’’ on interrogations. The Senate has gone through that process Mr. NADLER. I thank the gentleman President has vetoed that bill and con- and passed a bipartisan bill on FISA, for yielding. tinues to insist irresponsibly, in my the model, 27 Democrats, 41 Repub- Mr. Speaker, a few weeks ago, I view, that Congress shall not impose a licans coming together and modern- joined my colleagues in writing to the legal framework around interrogation izing FISA, the end result is this lead- President urging him to sign this con- policy. I strongly disagree and rise to ership on the House side refuses to deal ference report. This conference report override his veto. with it. It’s on every intelligence issue contains a provision that mirrors legis- Interrogations are a crucial tool in that we’ve dealt with in this Congress. lation which I authored with Congress- the effort to prevent and disrupt at- When it comes to national security, man DELAHUNT, the American Anti- tacks against America, and Congress when it comes to intelligence, there is Torture Act, that would ensure a sin- should not abdicate our obligation to not an ounce of compromise. It’s all gle, uniform baseline standard for all legislate. Aside from stating the case, about getting everything, and that’s interrogations conducted by the U.S. the Bush administration has never of- why the President vetoed this bill, be- intelligence community. I applaud the fered proof that extreme interrogation cause it is not a bipartisan bill. There leadership of Senator FEINSTEIN and techniques like waterboarding are ef- are many weaknesses in it. the other conferees for including this fective. I believe Senator JOHN MCCAIN All the focus on their side is torture. measure in the report. who says that waterboarding is tor- Talk about FISA, which makes a real Since news of the mistreatment, and ture, that such techniques do not work. difference to our men and women in possible torture, of detainees in U.S. Article I, section 8 of our Constitu- the intelligence community today. custody first surfaced, Congress has de- tion requires Congress to ‘‘regulate Mr. Speaker, with that I reserve the bated, and legislated, on the subject of captures on land and water.’’ This is balance of my time. the legal, and moral, limits on interro- our responsibility. We have seen the Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, could I in- gation. Torture is unworthy of the erosion of respect for America that quire as to the time on both sides. United States and its people. It places comes from scandals like Abu Ghraib The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. every American, especially every and incarceration without end at SALAZAR). The gentleman from Texas American in uniform around the world, Guantanamo Bay. The military and has 5 minutes. The gentleman from at grave risk. FBI conduct interrogations under clear Michigan has 61⁄2 minutes. The United States has historically rules. So why can’t the CIA? Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I reserve been a leader in the effort to establish Mr. Speaker, my message to the the balance of my time. and enforce the laws of war and the White House is this: Congress is a co- Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I will conventions against torture. The Army equal branch of government. The Con- yield myself 11⁄2 minutes. Field Manual is an outstanding exam- stitution plainly gives us the power to Mr. Speaker, it’s interesting, as we ple of how our modern military effec- legislate interrogation policy, and we go through this process and we talk tively gathers intelligence and ob- must use it. about what’s in the bill, the provision serves international norms of conduct. Vote ‘‘aye.’’ that we are talking about, or at least We all understand the critical role Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I yield the other side is talking about, is a that intelligence plays in helping us myself 2 minutes. provision that was dropped in in con- achieve these goals. But torture and The Detainee Treatment Act, 2005, ference. It came from the Senate. It cruel, inhuman, or degrading treat- prohibits cruel, inhumane, and degrad- didn’t come from the House. We ought ment, besides being contrary to our ing treatment, the standard found in to follow that model. Follow the lead- values, have proven not to be effective the convention against torture. It ap- ership. in obtaining actionable intelligence. plies to anyone held by U.S. authori- It’s interesting, we follow the leader- Current and former members of the ties. We have dealt with that issue. We ship here when it’s a partisan vote military have made it clear that tor- dealt with it in 2005. coming from the Senate; but when it’s ture doesn’t work. What my colleagues don’t want to a bipartisan effort from the Senate, the That includes General Petraeus, who talk about is they don’t want to talk leadership on the Democratic side will wrote an open letter that the standards about the other weaknesses in this bill. not respond and will not follow. in the Army Field Manual ‘‘work effec- And it’s clear, by what their actions tively and humanely in eliciting infor- have been for the last 4 weeks, they b 1815 mation from detainees.’’ Lieutenant don’t want to talk about FISA. On this bill, we are going to sustain General Kimmons, the Deputy Chief of As my former ranking member has the veto. It is a flawed bill through and Staff for Intelligence, similarly stated indicated, it is tough to pass an au- through. It would be interesting for that ‘‘No good intelligence is going to thorization bill. It is tough to pass leg- this House to do the right thing, to come from abusive practices. Any piece islation. She and I worked together and have a vote on a national security of intelligence which is obtained under passed, with our colleagues in the Sen- issue, the modernization of FISA, to duress, under, through the use of abu- ate, an Intelligence Reform Act, which bring that vote. I am very much afraid sive techniques would be of question- in many ways has worked and in some that we are going to go home Thursday able credibility.’’ ways we need to go back and take a or Friday of this week and we are going Mr. Speaker, the President and this look at. But one of the things that we to go on a 2-week recess and, once administration have repeatedly said learned through that process is to again, we will not have dealt with the that America does not torture. But make it work, you need to do it on a modernization of FISA. most intelligent people know the word bipartisan basis. That means that we will go through of this administration cannot be trust- The problem with this bill is that it a period of 6, 7, 8 weeks of eroding ca- ed. And to prove the point, when asked is a partisan bill. It passed the Senate pabilities, each and every day becom- to place those assurances into law, the

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00063 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 0634 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE H1510 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE March 11, 2008 President refuses. Now Congress must States of America. I agree with that. Armed Forces in Iraq last May. I be- act to override the President’s veto and It’s not. It should not be. But we need lieve it has been quoted, but it bears hold him to his word. to make a very clear statement that it repeating: And later this week, we will deal is not. Why? Because the rest of the ‘‘Some may argue that we would be with FISA. And all the nonsense world is looking at us and wondering more effective if we sanctioned torture spewed by the other side will be dealt what are the values that this great Na- or other expedient methods to obtain with because we will again, as we did tion we respect so much values? information from the enemy. They last November, pass a bill which will Mr. Speaker, on Saturday, the Presi- would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact give every tool the administration says dent could have made a clear, un- that such actions are illegal, history they need to them but will place it equivocal statement that this great shows that they also are frequently under judicial and congressional super- Nation does not and will not torture neither useful nor necessary.’’ vision to protect our liberties as well those in our custody. He should have General Petraeus went on to say: as our safety. signed this important intelligence au- ‘‘Our experience in applying interro- I urge support of this veto override to thorization conference report into law. gation standards laid out in the Army outlaw torture once and for all. But instead, he vetoed it, because it re- Field Manual . . . shows that the tech- Mr. HOEKSTRA. I yield myself 2 quires all American intelligence agen- niques in the manual work effectively minutes. cies to comply with the U.S. Army and humanely in eliciting information It is interesting to talk about Field Manual on Interrogations. from detainees.’’ waterboarding. It hasn’t been done for Let us be clear: This veto was unfor- Mr. Speaker, this is not a question of 5 years. It is interesting to talk about tunate and misguided. It threatens to whether we must combat and defeat we are going to get rid of cruel, inhu- further degrade America’s moral stand- terrorists. We must. However, we must mane, and degrading treatment. We did ing as others have said, including Colin never let it be said that when this gen- that in the Detainee Treatment Act of Powell, the former Secretary of State eration of Americans was forced to 2005. It is prohibited, prohibited on any in this administration. It threatens to confront evil that we succumbed to the person that is held in U.S. custody. So undermine our credibility in the inter- tactics of the tyrant. I urge my colleagues on both sides of it is easy to talk about those things. national community and to expose our the aisle, vote to override this unjusti- It is time that the House start doing own military and intelligence per- fied and deeply misguided veto. the hard stuff and the heavy lifting. sonnel to the very same tactics and Mr. HOEKSTRA. I yield myself 1 That heavy lifting has now been put off treatment. minute. for almost 4 weeks. And my fear is that Mr. Speaker, every Member here be- The Detainee Treatment Act outlaws we will leave without having resolved lieves that our Nation must take deci- cruel, inhumane, and degrading treat- the issue between the House and the sive action to detect, disrupt, and, yes, ment. There seems to be a sense of ur- Senate, and we will go away for 2 more eliminate terrorists who have no com- gency to do what we have done and do weeks because the House and the punction about planning and partici- it again. It is too bad that there is no Democratic leadership refuses to do the pating in the mass killings of innocent sense of urgency to give our individuals heavy lifting and refuses to do the hard men, women, and children in an effort in the intelligence community the stuff. They are willing to go back and to advance their twisted, demented tools that they need to keep us safe. do the stuff that was done in 2005 and aims. We can, we will, and we must The Senate has passed FISA. We address issues that haven’t occurred prevail in the war on terror. However, should do the same thing. And we for over 5 years. But when it comes to in the pursuit of those who seek to should do it before we go home. We keeping America safe and doing what is harm us, we must not sacrifice the need to start doing national security necessary and giving the tools to the very ideals that distinguish us from issues in a bipartisan basis. The longer intelligence community to keep us those who preach death and destruc- we continue going down this path of safe, leadership of this House is unwill- tion and say that their ends justify making national security and intel- ing to act and is unwilling to do what whatever means they may use. ligence issues purely partisan, some is necessary. During the current administration, might call them purely political issues, With that, I reserve the balance of we have seen the line blurred between we risk the security and the safety of my time legitimate, sanctioned interrogation the American people. Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I now yield tactics and torture. And there is no With that, I reserve the balance of 1 minute to the distinguished gen- doubt, our international reputation has my time. tleman from Maryland, a member of suffered and been stained as a result. Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, could I in- the leadership of this House, the major- The excesses at Abu Ghraib and Guan- quire as to the time. ity leader, and one that is proud to tanamo are well known, as well as the The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen- stand up against torture and for the administration’s belief that the Geneva tleman from Texas has 2 minutes re- American people, Mr. HOYER. Convention against torture is, and I maining. The gentleman from Michi- Mr. HOYER. I thank my friend for quote, quaint. Let me repeat that for gan has 21⁄2 minutes remaining. yielding. my colleagues. The administration’s Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, with that, In response to the distinguished advice that it got from counsel was I will yield 1 minute to the gentle- ranking member of the committee, let that the Geneva Conventions against woman from California, the Speaker of me read a statement from the Presi- torture is, quote, quaint, close quote. I the House of Representatives. dent’s veto message of March 8, 2008: would suggest to you it is as relevant Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Speaker, I thank ‘‘My disagreement over section 327 is today as it was when it was signed. the distinguished chairman of the In- not over any particular interrogation These incidents and others sully our telligence Committee for his leadership technique; for instance, it is not over great Nation’s good reputation and on protecting the American people. In waterboarding, which is not part of the allow our enemies to foment fear and addition to being Chair of the Intel- current CIA program.’’ He doesn’t say stoke hatred. Requiring all intelligence ligence Committee, he has served for that it will not be a part of the CIA agencies to comply with the Army many years on the Armed Services program. He has very carefully worded, Field Manual on interrogation is an at- Committee. He brings to his position ‘‘It is not part of the current program.’’ tempt by this Congress, passed by ma- on Intelligence the commitment that That is why I tell my friend this leg- jorities in both Houses, to repair the we all have, to protecting the Amer- islation is relevant. That is why, in my damage that has already been done. ican people, to building a strong mili- opinion, his Presidential candidate, al- Furthermore, the techniques permitted tary second to none to do that, to pro- though he seems to have changed his by the Army Field Manual have been tect the American people. He knows mind, passed his own bill, which the endorsed by a wide array of civilian that force protection is one of the main President, of course, signed and then and military officials as both effective priorities of intelligence, to protect had a signing statement that he wasn’t and consistent with our values. our forces, and when they are in harm’s sure that he had to follow it, that tor- Here, in fact, is what General David way, to make sure they have the intel- ture was not the policy of the United Petraeus wrote to members of the ligence to prevail.

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00064 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 0634 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE March 11, 2008 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H1511 Mr. Speaker, the New Direction Con- techniques also risks the safety of our Senate’s FISA bill. We haven’t dealt gress has made strengthening national soldiers and other Americans serving with the fact that we are in danger security and improving America’s in- overseas. In a letter to the congres- every day, and as a member of the in- telligence capabilities a top priority. It sional Intelligence Committee chair- telligence community, I know just how is our major responsibility, to protect men, 30 retired generals and admirals, damaging the absence of action has the American people. including General Joseph Hoar, the been. Our very first piece of legislation, former head of the U.S. Central Com- This bill has become a partisan bill, H.R. 1, took the bipartisan 9/11 Com- mand, the command that oversees our and wrongly so. I call on my colleagues mission recommendations off the shelf, military activities in the Iraq region, on both sides of the aisle to fix it and as they had been in the Republican the Middle East and greater Middle move on, rather than complaining Congress, and put them into law to bet- East area, those 30 retired generals and about something that the Speaker is ter protect the American people. We admirals, looking again to the voices well aware of. then began our efforts to strengthen of those who have led in the military, Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, could I in- America’s military, the readiness of stated: ‘‘We believe it is vital to the quire of the time. which has been greatly depleted by the safety of our men and women in uni- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen- President’s failed Iraq policy. form that the United States not sanc- tleman from Texas has 1 minute and To restore our military strength, we tion the use of interrogation methods the gentleman from Michigan has 11⁄2 have expanded the size of the Army and it would find unacceptable if inflicted minutes. Marine Corps, passed legislation insist- by the enemy against captured Ameri- Mr. REYES. Thank you. ing that only fully mission-capable cans.’’ I would advise the gentleman from forces be deployed, and funded essen- Many military officials and intel- Michigan I have one additional speak- tial equipment, including armored ligence professionals have also stated er. With that, I now yield 45 seconds to Humvees. that torture is ineffective; it is un- the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Mr. Speaker, America’s security de- likely to produce the kind of timely and reliable information needed to dis- MORAN). pends on the strength of our military Mr. MORAN of Virginia. Mr. Speak- as we all know, but also the quality of rupt terrorist plots. I want to reinforce the message of er, there are five compelling reasons information gathered and analysis pro- why we should override the President’s vided by the 16 intelligence agencies my colleague, the majority leader, STENY HOYER, in quoting the words of veto of this bill and sustain the con- that make up our Nation’s intelligence gressional ban on torture: community. As someone who has General David Petraeus. As Mr. HOYER just stated, but I think it bears repeat- First of all, it creates a double stand- served on the House Intelligence Com- ard between the military and our intel- mittee now as a member and ex officio ing, the words of General David Petraeus: ‘‘Some may argue that we ligence personnel. The rest of the world for 16 years, longer than anyone in the would be more effective if we sanc- won’t recognize the difference, and nei- Congress, I understand that policy- tioned torture or other expedient ther should we. makers in Congress and in the execu- methods to obtain information from Secondly, it gives us faulty informa- tive branch must be able to rely on ac- the enemy. That would be wrong,’’ tion. Somebody being tortured will tell curate, timely, and actionable intel- General Petraeus said. He went on: you whatever is necessary in order to ligence. That is why this intelligence ‘‘Beyond the basic fact that such ac- stop the torture. authorization bill invests in human in- tions are illegal, history shows that Thirdly, it jeopardizes our own per- telligence, counterterrorism oper- they are frequently neither useful nor sonnel, because the enemy will con- ations, and analysis. It is a critical necessary.’’ sider it a license to torture American step in protecting our Nation. And the These leading military men and prisoners. President should have signed it into women and those of us who support Fourth, it is illegal, according to the law. this legislation’s ban on torture believe Geneva Conventions. b 1830 that we can and we must protect Amer- Fifth, it is immoral, and thus it is ica while preserving our country’s un-American. Regrettably, President Bush vetoed Our Founding Fathers believed that these critical investments in our intel- deeply held principles. In the final analysis, our ability to this Nation would be united by a com- ligence capabilities because this legis- lead the world will depend not only on mon set of values, that we would stand lation extended the Army Field Manu- our military might but also on our as a moral guidepost to the rest of the al’s prohibition on torture to intel- moral authority. Today, we can begin world. This undermines that moral ligence community personnel. to reassert that moral authority by high ground, and that is why this veto The prohibition on torture that the overriding the President’s veto. should be overridden. President vetoed protected our values, Thank you again, Mr. Chairman, for Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I yield protected American military and diplo- your leadership. myself the balance of the time. matic personnel, and protected Ameri- Mr. HOEKSTRA. Mr. Speaker, I yield Mr. Speaker, I encourage my col- cans by ensuring accurate intelligence. 1 minute to the gentleman from Cali- leagues today to sustain the Presi- Our Nation is on a stronger ground fornia (Mr. ISSA). dent’s veto. This is an ill-advised bill. ethically and morally when our prac- Mr. ISSA. Mr. Speaker, I am as- This goes back to what we did in the tices for holding and interrogating cap- tounded that you can use the words 1990s, ‘‘bugs and bunnies,’’ telling our tives are consistent with the Geneva ‘‘torture’’ and ‘‘waterboarding’’ as intelligence folks that it is time to Conventions, when we do not torture. though you were not on the committee focus your resources and your skills on We all have our views here about in- of jurisdiction knowing about it as an studying the national security implica- telligence gathering, analysis and dis- ex-officio at the time it is to have oc- tions of global warming. semination; and, again, much of the curred. I am shocked that this is going There are many problems with this focus is on force protection. So I look to be all about a procedure or proce- bill. But the sense of urgency that we to the words of those who have served dures that in fact the Speaker of the have in the intelligence community in the military for their view on this House had the ability to know about today is, as my colleague from Cali- subject. and condoned for years. I am shocked fornia pointed out today, we are going In the words of Retired RADM Don- that the Speaker of the House would to tell al Qaeda exactly what may hap- ald Guter, a former Navy Judge Advo- speak about David Petraeus, when in pen. We are going to give them our cate General, he says: ‘‘There is no dis- fact David Petraeus has said publicly playbook. And at the same time we connect between human rights and na- and privately: ‘‘You know, on the bat- have limited our ability to listen to tional security. They are synergistic. tlefield of Iraq, I can kill the enemy, radical jihadists. One doesn’t work without the other for but I can’t listen to him if he calls It is now 26, 27, 28 days since FISA, or very long.’’ America.’’ the Protect America Act, has expired. Failing to legally prohibit the use of This today should be about what we How many more days will my col- waterboarding and other harsh torture haven’t done. We haven’t taken up the leagues on the other side of the aisle

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00065 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 0634 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE H1512 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE March 11, 2008 wait before they take up this legisla- tomers. . . If [individuals] think these [harsh in- oversight of intelligence funding. In its final re- tion from the Senate? Will it be one terrogation] methods work, they’re woefully port, the 9/11 Commission concluded that: ‘‘Of more day? Will it be three more days? misinformed. Torture is counterproductive on all our recommendations, strengthening con- Will it be two more weeks? Will it be all fronts. It produces bad intelligence. It ruins gressional oversight may be among the most two more months? How much greater the [interrogation] subject, makes them use- difficult and important. So long as oversight is do you want to increase the risk to the less for further interrogation. And it damages governed by the current congressional rules homeland, to our allies, to our troops, our credibility around the world.’’ and resolutions, we believe the American peo- before you act? Moreover, 30 retired military leaders have ple will not get the security they want and The Speaker of the House shortly pointed out that failing to prohibit harsh inter- need.’’ after 9/11 agreed that we needed to act. rogation techniques endangers our men and Last year, the Democratic leadership at- It is beyond me why she doesn’t want women in uniform. In a December 2007 letter, tempted to apply a ‘‘Band-Aide’’ to this prob- to act now and why we don’t have that 30 retired military leaders wrote, ‘‘We believe lem by creating a powerless Intelligence Over- sense of urgency. It is time to bring it is vital to the safety of our men and women sight Panel that has very little control over ac- FISA to the floor, and it is time to sus- in uniform that the United States not sanction tual funding decisions. This is clearly not what tain the President’s veto. the use of interrogation methods it would find the 9/11 Commission recommended. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance unacceptable if inflicted by the enemy against its report plainly states that ‘‘tinkering with the of my time. captured Americans. . . . The current situa- existing committee structure is not sufficient.’’ Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- tion, in which the military operates under one In May of 2007, I offered a simple amendment self the balance of my time. set of interrogation rules that are public and to the bill before us, calling for Congress to Mr. Speaker, this is a critical bill for the CIA operates under a separate, secret set implement these crucial recommendations— the intelligence community. If you of rules, is unwise and unpractical . . . What but it was prevented from being considered for vote to sustain this veto, you are vot- sets us apart from our enemies in this fight inclusion in this legislation. ing for torture with the President. I be- . . . is how we behave. In everything we do, Mr. Speaker, the American people have in- lieve we should stand with the men and we must observe the standards and values sisted that we implement all of the 9/11 Com- women of the community and override that dictate that we treat noncombatants and mission recommendations—even those that the President’s veto. detainees with dignity and respect.’’ are difficult. We will be doing this country a Mr. VAN HOLLEN. Mr. Speaker, I rise today Many retired military leaders have also disservice until we put in place an effective to cast my vote to override the President’s pointed out that waterboarding is clearly tor- committee structure capable of giving our na- veto of the ban on torture. This bill would have ture and is illegal. For example, Retired Admi- tional intelligence agencies the oversight, sup- prevented the CIA from engaging in acts of ral Donald Guter, Judge Advocate General, port, and leadership they need. Mr. PAUL. Mr. Speaker, I rise in somewhat torture. The President vetoed this bill over the wrote in a November 2007 letter, reluctant support of this vote to override the provision that specifically extends to U.S. intel- ‘‘Waterboarding is inhumane, it is torture, and President’s veto of H.R. 2062, the Intelligence ligence agencies and personnel the current it is illegal. . . This is a critically important Authorization Act of 2008. Although I voted prohibitions in the Army Field Manual against issue—but it is not, and never has been, a against this authorization when it first came to waterboarding and other torture. complex issue, and even to suggest otherwise the floor, the main issue has now become The human rights violations perpetrated by does a terrible disservice to this nation. . . . whether we as a Congress are to condone tor- the Bush Administration against people de- Waterboarding detainees amounts to illegal ture as official U.S. policy or whether we will tained by the United States have done more torture in all circumstances. to suggest other- speak out against it. This bill was vetoed by to compromise this nation’s security than to wise—or even to give credence to such a sug- the President because of a measure added protect it. We can protect our nation from acts gestion—represents both an affront to the law of terrorism without compromising our values extending the prohibition of the use of any in- and to the core values of our nation.’’ terrogation treatment or technique not author- or the Constitution. Finally, the use of torture has weakened our ized by the United States Army Field Manual The use of torture by U.S. intelligence agen- national security by eroding our moral stand- on Human Intelligence Collector Operations to cies to gain intelligence is repugnant on moral ing and has cost us our ability to enlist the co- the U.S. intelligence community. Opposing this grounds. In addition, many experts agree that operation and support of other nations in our prohibition is tantamount to endorsing the use information extracted through torture is often fight against terrorism, and places our military of torture against those in United States Gov- unreliable and misleading. Moreover, as the and diplomatic personnel at risk. This practice former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff, ernment custody. must be stopped. Overturning this veto would Mr. Speaker, we have all read the disturbing Colin Powell, has testified, torture will put our be a crucial first important step to restore our reports of individuals apprehended and taken own troops at greater risk of torture. moral standing in the world. It is imperative to secret prisons maintained by the United In 2007, General David Petraeus stated that that Congress tells the world in no uncertain States Government across the globe, tortured torture is wrong and that the Army Field Man- terms: Americans do not engage in torture. for months or even years, and later released ual works. In an open letter to service mem- Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposi- without charge. Khaled al-Masri, for example, bers in May 2007, General Petraeus stated, tion to overriding the President’s veto of H.R. a German citizen, has recounted the story of ‘‘Some may argue that we would be more ef- 2082, the conference agreement on the Fiscal his incarceration and torture by U.S. intel- fective if we sanctioned torture or other expe- Year 2008 Intelligence Authorization Act. ligence in a secret facility in Afghanistan. His dient methods to obtain information from the As a former Member of the House Select horror was said to be simply a case of mis- enemy. They would be wrong. Beyond the Committee on Intelligence, I believe it is vital taken identity. We do not know how many basic fact that such actions are illegal, history that we provide the United States intelligence more similar cases there may be, but clearly shows that they also are frequently neither agencies with the tools and resources nec- it is not in the interest of the United States to useful nor necessary. Certainly, extreme phys- essary to ensure our security. Therefore, I act in a manner so contrary to the values ical action can make someone ‘talk;’ however, strongly support funding in this bill for human upon which we pride ourselves. what the individual says may be of question- intelligence activities, intelligence analysis, and My vote to override the President’s veto is able value. In fact, our experience in applying counterterrorism operations. Furthermore, I a vote to send a clear message that I do not the interrogation standards laid out in the support language in the agreement prohibiting think the United States should be in the busi- Army Field Manual . . . shows that the tech- the use of interrogation techniques not author- ness of torture. It is anti-American, immoral niques in the manual work effectively and hu- ized by the U.S. Army Field Manual on Human and counterproductive. manely in eliciting information from detainees.’’ Intelligence Collector Operations. Our soldiers Mr. UDALL of Colorado. Mr. Speaker, the At a February 29th news briefing to oppose and interrogators need to know exactly where President’s veto of this legislation was not a the President’s anticipated veto, retired Lt. the line is when engaging prisoners and there surprise but still very disappointing. Gen. Harry Soyster, former Director of the De- should be absolutely no question about what It was not a surprise because the President fense Intelligence Agency, stated, ‘‘Experience is acceptable behavior and what is not. In fact, had clearly signaled his intention to reject the shows that the Army Field Manual’s ap- I have cosponsored legislation to require the bill’s requirement that all intelligence agencies proaches to interrogation work. The Army anti-torture provisions included in this con- follow the rules governing interrogation tech- Field Manual is comprehensive and sophisti- ference agreement. niques followed by our military, even though cated. It contains all the techniques any good Nevertheless, I will oppose this bill because the bill also authorizes supplemental funding interrogator needs to get accurate, reliable in- it fails to implement the 9/11 Commission’s for counterterrorism as well as funding for ad- formation, including out of the toughest cus- recommendations for reforming congressional vanced research and development funding to

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00066 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 9920 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE March 11, 2008 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H1513 help maintain our technical capacity for intel- interrogations of two detainees held in Thai- Becerra Hare Olver ligence, to repair and replace aging and inad- land who were reportedly subjected to Berkley Harman Ortiz waterboarding and other coercive interroga- Berman Hastings (FL) Pallone equate power infrastructure, and to improve Berry Herseth Sandlin Pascrell training and education of linguists, analysts, tion techniques to determine whether de- stroying the tapes amounted to obstruction Bishop (GA) Higgins Pastor Bishop (NY) Hill Paul and human intelligence collectors. of justice. Blumenauer Hinchey Payne But it was disappointing that President Bush Public disclosure of these incidents should refuses to agree to that simple requirement, Boren Hinojosa Pelosi lead to a firm U.S. policy preventing govern- Boswell Hirono Perlmutter because the result is to signal to the world ment operatives from using torture in the fu- Boucher Hodes Peterson (MN) that he refuses to recognize that the result will ture. Perhaps the best thing about the emer- Boyd (FL) Holden Pomeroy be to place every American, especially those gence of Sen. John McCain as the Republican Boyda (KS) Holt Price (NC) in uniform around the world, at grave risk. presidential frontrunner is that McCain, who Brady (PA) Honda Rahall The United States historically has led in the was tortured by the North Vietnamese while Braley (IA) Hoyer Reyes a POW during the Vietnam War, has ex- Brown, Corrine Inslee Richardson effort to establish and enforce the laws of war Butterfield Israel Rodriguez and conventions against torture. Indeed, the pressed his firm opposition to the use of tor- ture by the U.S. He has said that one thing Capps Jackson (IL) Ross Army Field Manual is an outstanding example that helped him endure his imprisonment Capuano Jackson-Lee Rothman Cardoza (TX) Roybal-Allard of how our modern military effectively gathers was the knowledge that our side doesn’t en- intelligence and observes international norms Carnahan Jefferson Ruppersberger gage in such barbarity. Carney Johnson (GA) Ryan (OH) of conduct. Torture is sometimes justified as the only Castor Johnson (IL) Salazar The importance of that leadership and the way to extract information from detainees Chandler Johnson, E. B. Sa´ nchez, Linda appropriateness of the guidelines in the field when an attack is deemed imminent, and Clarke Jones (OH) T. manual were clearly recognized by Congress Hayden said in 2002 and 2003 that everybody Clay Kagen Sanchez, Loretta when we voted to approve the conference re- expected an attack on the U.S. following the Cleaver Kanjorski Sarbanes port’s provision extending the field manual to 9/11 terrorist attacks. But most experienced Clyburn Kaptur Schakowsky Cohen Kennedy Schiff the entire intelligence community—the provi- interrogators say torture seldom if ever pro- duces reliable intelligence, that while other Conyers Kildee Scott (GA) sion to which the President objects and which techniques may take longer, they generally Cooper Kind Scott (VA) has prompted him to veto the legislation. By produce better information. Costa Klein (FL) Serrano Costello Lampson Sestak extending the field manual to the intelligence At a more fundamental level, the use of community, the legislation would effectively Courtney Langevin Shea-Porter torture blurs the line between civilized soci- Cramer Larsen (WA) Sherman outlaw waterboarding and similar coercive eties and ruthless barbarians. In the larger Crowley Larson (CT) Shuler techniques. I support that because struggle with jihadist terrorism and those Cuellar Lee Sires waterboarding is widely and rightly viewed as tempted to support or harbor them, the per- Cummings Levin Skelton a form of torture and the refusal to renounce ception that the United States has a certain Davis (AL) Lewis (GA) Slaughter its use will result in greater damage to our na- moral authority is invaluable. Moral author- Davis (CA) Lipinski Smith (NJ) ity was a key factor in the long, twilight Davis (IL) Loebsack Smith (WA) tional interests than the possible benefits of its struggle with aggressive communism we call Davis, Lincoln Lofgren, Zoe Snyder possible use in the future. the Cold War. Using torture undermines that DeFazio Lowey Solis I think the case for overriding the Presi- moral authority. DeGette Lynch Space dent’s veto was well made by the Colorado It is dismaying, therefore, that a day later Delahunt Mahoney (FL) Spratt DeLauro Maloney (NY) Stark Springs Gazette in a recent editorial pointing White House spokesman Tony Fratto was Dicks Markey Stupak out that ‘‘the use of torture blurs the line be- still saying that waterboarding might be Dingell Matheson Sutton tween civilized societies and ruthless barbar- used justifiably in the future. It would have Doggett Matsui Tanner ians.’’ As the editorial notes, been better to acknowledge that in the wake Donnelly McCarthy (NY) Tauscher In the larger struggle with jihadist ter- of 9/11 the U.S. used coercive techniques, Doyle McCollum (MN) Taylor rorism and those tempted to support or har- that one could understand the temptation Edwards McDermott Thompson (CA) bor them, the perception that the United considering the circumstances and the lack Ellison McGovern Tierney States has a certain moral authority is in- of knowledge about al-Qaida, but that we Ellsworth McIntyre Towns valuable. Moral authority was a key factor had renounced the practice. Emanuel McNerney Tsongas It is telling that the firmest opponents of Engel McNulty Udall (CO) in the long, twilight struggle with aggressive Eshoo Meek (FL) Udall (NM) communism we call the Cold War. Using tor- the use of torture tend to be military and former military people who understand the Etheridge Meeks (NY) Van Hollen ture undermines that moral authority. Farr Melancon Vela´ zquez dangers to captured military personnel if it It is telling that the firmest opponents of Fattah Michaud Visclosky the use of torture tend to be military and is widely believed that the U.S. engages in Filner Miller (NC) Walz (MN) former military people who understand the torture. Instead of spinning unlikely sce- Foster Miller, George Wasserman dangers to captured military personnel if it narios in which torture might be justified, Frank (MA) Mollohan Schultz is widely believed that the U.S. engages in the government should announce that Amer- Giffords Moore (KS) Watson torture. Instead of spinning unlikely sce- ica doesn’t do that any more—and mean it. Gilchrest Moore (WI) Watt narios in which torture might be justified, Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I am proud Gillibrand Moran (VA) Waxman Gonzalez Murphy (CT) Weiner the government should announce that Amer- to move the previous question. ica doesn’t do that any more—and mean it. Gordon Murphy, Patrick Welch (VT) The previous question was ordered. Green, Al Murtha Wexler I agree, and that is why I will vote today to The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Green, Gene Nadler Wilson (OH) override the President’s unwise veto of this question is, Will the House, on recon- Grijalva Napolitano Wu important legislation. For the benefit of our col- Gutierrez Neal (MA) Wynn sideration, pass the bill, the objections Hall (NY) Obey Yarmuth leagues, I am attaching the complete text of of the President to the contrary not- the editorial: withstanding? NAYS—188 [From the Colorado Springs Gazette, Feb. 14, Under the Constitution, the vote 2008] Aderholt Brady (TX) Conaway must be by the yeas and nays. Akin Broun (GA) Crenshaw THE HIGH ROAD—FORSWEARING TORTURE Alexander Brown (SC) Cubin GIVES U.S. MORAL STANDING Pursuant to clause 8 of rule XX, this 15-minute vote on the passage of the Bachmann Brown-Waite, Culberson So it’s out in the open now. Central Intel- Bachus Ginny Davis, David ligence Agency Director Gen. Michael Hay- bill on reconsideration will be followed Barrett (SC) Buchanan Davis, Tom den admitted to the Senate Intelligence by 5-minute votes on suspending the Barton (TX) Burgess Deal (GA) Committee last week that the CIA used the rules and adopting House Resolution Biggert Burton (IN) Diaz-Balart, L. coercive interrogation technique known as 948 and House Resolution 493. Bilbray Buyer Diaz-Balart, M. waterboarding, a form of simulated drown- Bilirakis Calvert Doolittle The vote was taken by electronic de- Bishop (UT) Camp (MI) Drake ing, on three al-Qaida operatives in 2002 and vice, and there were—yeas 225, nays 2003. The technique is widely viewed as tor- Blackburn Campbell (CA) Dreier 188, not voting 17, as follows: Blunt Cannon Duncan ture, which is prohibited by U.S. law and [Roll No. 117] Boehner Cantor Ehlers international treaties. Hayden said it has Bonner Carter Emerson not been used since 2003 but that the CIA YEAS—225 Bono Mack Castle English (PA) could use it again if approved by both the at- Abercrombie Andrews Baldwin Boozman Chabot Everett torney general and the president. Ackerman Arcuri Barrow Boustany Cole (OK) Fallin The Justice Department is currently inves- Allen Baca Bartlett (MD) tigating the destruction of videotapes of the Altmire Baird Bean

VerDate Aug 31 2005 02:45 Jun 26, 2008 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00067 Fmt 4634 Sfmt 0634 J:\CRONLINE\2008BA~2\2008NE~2\H11MR8.REC H11MR8 mmaher on PROD1PC76 with CONG-REC-ONLINE H1514 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE March 11, 2008 Feeney Latta Renzi tion to suspend the rules and agree to Lynch Perlmutter Sires Ferguson Lewis (CA) Reynolds the resolution, H. Res. 948, as amended, Mack Peterson (MN) Slaughter Flake Lewis (KY) Rogers (AL) Mahoney (FL) Peterson (PA) Smith (NJ) Forbes Linder Rogers (KY) on which the yeas and nays were or- Maloney (NY) Petri Smith (TX) Fortenberry LoBiondo Rogers (MI) dered. Manzullo Pickering Smith (WA) Fossella Lucas Rohrabacher The Clerk read the title of the resolu- Marchant Pitts Snyder Foxx Lungren, Daniel Roskam Markey Platts Solis Franks (AZ) E. Royce tion. Marshall Poe Souder Frelinghuysen Mack Ryan (WI) The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Matheson Pomeroy Space Gallegly Manzullo Sali question is on the motion offered by Matsui Porter Spratt Garrett (NJ) Marchant McCarthy (CA) Price (GA) Stark Saxton the gentleman from Iowa (Mr. Gerlach Marshall Schmidt McCarthy (NY) Price (NC) Stearns Gingrey McCarthy (CA) Sensenbrenner LOEBSACK) that the House suspend the McCaul (TX) Putnam Stupak Gohmert McCaul (TX) Sessions rules and agree to the resolution, H. McCollum (MN) Rahall Sullivan Goode McCotter Shadegg McCotter Ramstad Sutton Goodlatte McCrery Res. 948, as amended. Shays McDermott Regula Tauscher Granger McHenry McGovern Rehberg Taylor Shimkus This will be a 5-minute vote. Graves McHugh McHenry Reichert Terry Shuster The vote was taken by electronic de- Hall (TX) McKeon McHugh Renzi Thompson (CA) Simpson Hastings (WA) McMorris vice, and there were—yeas 396, nays 0, McIntyre Reyes Thornberry Smith (NE) Hayes Rodgers answered ‘‘present’’ 12, not voting 21, McKeon Reynolds Tiahrt Smith (TX) Heller Mica as follows: McMorris Richardson Tiberi Hensarling Miller (FL) Souder Rodgers Rodriguez Tierney Herger Miller (MI) Stearns [Roll No. 118] McNerney Rogers (AL) Towns Sullivan Hobson Miller, Gary YEAS—396 McNulty Rogers (KY) Tsongas Hoekstra Moran (KS) Terry Meek (FL) Rogers (MI) Turner Hulshof Murphy, Tim Thornberry Abercrombie Courtney Harman Meeks (NY) Rohrabacher Udall (CO) Hunter Musgrave Tiahrt Ackerman Cramer Hastings (FL) Melancon Roskam Udall (NM) Inglis (SC) Myrick Tiberi Aderholt Crenshaw Hastings (WA) Mica Ross Upton Issa Neugebauer Turner Allen Crowley Hayes Michaud Rothman Van Hollen Johnson, Sam Nunes Upton Altmire Cubin Heller Miller (FL) Roybal-Allard Vela´ zquez Jones (NC) Pearce Walberg Andrews Cuellar Hensarling Miller (MI) Royce Visclosky Jordan Pence Walden (OR) Arcuri Culberson Herger Miller (NC) Ruppersberger Walberg Keller Peterson (PA) Walsh (NY) Baca Cummings Herseth Sandlin Miller, Gary Ryan (OH) Walden (OR) King (IA) Petri Wamp Bachmann Davis (AL) Higgins Miller, George Ryan (WI) Walsh (NY) King (NY) Pickering Waters Bachus Davis (CA) Hill Mollohan Salazar Walz (MN) Kingston Pitts Weldon (FL) Baird Davis (IL) Hinchey Moore (KS) Sali Wamp Kirk Platts Weller Baldwin Davis (KY) Hinojosa Moore (WI) Sa´ nchez, Linda Wasserman Kline (MN) Poe Westmoreland Barrett (SC) Davis, David Hirono Moran (KS) T. Schultz Knollenberg Porter Whitfield (KY) Barrow Davis, Lincoln Hobson Murphy (CT) Sanchez, Loretta Waters Kucinich Price (GA) Wilson (NM) Bartlett (MD) Deal (GA) Hodes Murphy, Patrick Sarbanes Watson Kuhl (NY) Putnam Wilson (SC) Barton (TX) DeFazio Hoekstra Murphy, Tim Saxton Watt LaHood Ramstad Wittman (VA) Bean DeGette Holden Murtha Schakowsky Waxman Lamborn Regula Wolf Becerra Delahunt Holt Musgrave Schiff Weiner Latham Rehberg Young (AK) Berkley DeLauro Honda Myrick Schmidt Welch (VT) LaTourette Reichert Young (FL) Berman Diaz-Balart, L. Hoyer Nadler Schwartz Weldon (FL) Berry Diaz-Balart, M. Hunter Napolitano Scott (GA) Weller NOT VOTING—17 Biggert Dicks Inglis (SC) Neal (MA) Scott (VA) Westmoreland Capito Mitchell Rush Bilbray Doggett Inslee Neugebauer Sensenbrenner Wexler Bilirakis Donnelly Israel Coble Oberstar Schwartz Nunes Serrano Whitfield (KY) Bishop (GA) Doolittle Issa Davis (KY) Pryce (OH) Tancredo Obey Sessions Wilson (NM) Bishop (NY) Doyle Jackson (IL) Dent Radanovich Thompson (MS) Olver Sestak Wilson (OH) Bishop (UT) Drake Jackson-Lee Hooley Rangel Woolsey Ortiz Shadegg Wilson (SC) Kilpatrick Ros-Lehtinen Blackburn Dreier (TX) Pallone Shays Wittman (VA) Blumenauer Duncan Jefferson Pascrell Shea-Porter Wolf b 1901 Boehner Edwards Johnson (GA) Pastor Sherman Wu Bonner Ehlers Johnson (IL) Paul Shimkus Wynn Mr. FEENEY changed his vote from Bono Mack Ellison Johnson, E. B. Payne Shuler Yarmuth ‘‘yea’’ to ‘‘nay.’’ Boozman Ellsworth Johnson, Sam Pearce Shuster Young (AK) So (two-thirds not being in the af- Boren Emanuel Jones (NC) Pence Simpson Young (FL) Boswell Engel Jones (OH) firmative) the veto of the President Boustany English (PA) Jordan ANSWERED ‘‘PRESENT’’—12 was sustained and the bill was rejected. Boyd (FL) Eshoo Kagen Akin Clay Hulshof The result of the vote was announced Boyda (KS) Etheridge Kanjorski Blunt Cleaver Larsen (WA) as above recorded. Brady (PA) Everett Kaptur Boucher Emerson Skelton Brady (TX) Fallin Keller Carnahan Graves Smith (NE) Stated for: Braley (IA) Farr Kennedy Ms. SCHWARTZ. Mr. Speaker, on rollcall Broun (GA) Fattah Kildee NOT VOTING—21 Brown (SC) Feeney Kind No. 117, I was unavoidably detained. Had I Alexander Kilpatrick Rangel Brown, Corrine Ferguson King (IA) Butterfield McCrery Ros-Lehtinen been present, I would have voted ‘‘yea.’’ Brown-Waite, Filner King (NY) Capito Mitchell Rush Stated against: Ginny Flake Kingston Davis, Tom Moran (VA) Tancredo Mr. COBLE. Mr. Speaker, on rollcall No. Buchanan Forbes Kirk Dent Oberstar Tanner Burgess Fortenberry Klein (FL) 117, I was detained at a firefighters ceremony. Dingell Pryce (OH) Thompson (MS) Burton (IN) Fossella Kline (MN) Hooley Radanovich Woolsey Had I been present, I would have voted ‘‘nay.’’ Buyer Foster Knollenberg PERSONAL EXPLANATION Calvert Foxx Kucinich b 1909 Ms. WATERS. Mr. Speaker, during Camp (MI) Frank (MA) Kuhl (NY) Campbell (CA) Franks (AZ) LaHood rollcall vote No. 117 on H.R. 2082, I mis- So (two-thirds being in the affirma- Cannon Frelinghuysen Lamborn tive) the rules were suspended and the takenly recorded my vote as ‘‘no’’ Cantor Gallegly Lampson when I should have voted ‘‘yes.’’ Capps Garrett (NJ) Langevin resolution, as amended, was agreed to. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The veto Capuano Gerlach Larson (CT) The result of the vote was announced Cardoza Giffords Latham as above recorded. message and the bill will be referred to Carney Gilchrest LaTourette the Permanent Select Committee on Carter Gillibrand Latta A motion to reconsider was laid on Intelligence. Castle Gingrey Lee the table. Castor Gohmert Levin The Clerk will notify the Senate of Chabot Gonzalez Lewis (CA) f the action of the House. Chandler Goode Lewis (GA) CONGRATULATING THE WOMEN’S f Clarke Goodlatte Lewis (KY) Clyburn Gordon Linder WATER POLO TEAM OF UCLA CONGRATULATING THE UNIVER- Coble Granger Lipinski FOR WINNING THE 2007 NA- SITY OF KANSAS FOOTBALL Cohen Green, Al LoBiondo TIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP Cole (OK) Green, Gene Loebsack TEAM FOR WINNING THE 2008 Conaway Grijalva Lofgren, Zoe The SPEAKER pro tempore. The un- FEDEX ORANGE BOWL Conyers Gutierrez Lowey finished business is the vote on the mo- Cooper Hall (NY) Lucas The SPEAKER pro tempore. The un- Costa Hall (TX) Lungren, Daniel tion to suspend the rules and agree to finished business is the vote on the mo- Costello Hare E. the resolution, H. Res. 493, as amended,

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