The Legend of Zelda Series Community

Matthew mstrickland1 01/21/2016 2:51 PM

I'm really having a hard time understanding what 's stance on DLC is. On one hand, we have absolutely awful DLC practices in : Fates, Hyrule Warriors, Smash, and Twilight Princess HD, but on the other hand the Splatoon content is multiplied by four for free, Triforce Heroes gets free DLC, and the Mario Kart 8 and NSLU DLC are priced very cheap. Thoughts?

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Lorcan 01/21/2016 2:57 PM smash and hyrule warriors dlc was handled really well and priced very fairly what you're trying to say is dlc is only good if it's cheap or free

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Zeke 01/21/2016 3:01 PM I rather have DLC for free in general. E Yeah! e 1

David 01/21/2016 3:02 PM I feel like part of the problem with Nintendo's foray into DLC stems from having little experience, they're relatively new to the practice compared to other companies and are probably still working out how to proceed. They've been quite good with enticing players in using free content for FE: Awakening and TFH but in other cases such as Smash not really providing great value. Time will tell.

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Steve 01/21/2016 3:02 PM Games that are less popular or a brand new IP get free DLC to get more attention. There's nothing wrong with their approach in Smash as none of the DLC was being made until after the game was released...apart from Mewtwo.

TP HD's content annoys me though. Not only is it all already on the disc, the easy difficulty is one of TP's biggest flaws so we shouldn't have to pay to get hero mode.

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Cody 01/21/2016 3:04 PM Idk, I like what they're doing with the smash and mario kart dlc. In smash we got two of my favorite characters, Cloud and Ryu, and one of my brother's favorites, Lucas, as well as some really cool stages like Midgar and Hyrule Castle. The Mario Kart dlcs were, simply put, incredible. The tracks are amazing, and we got 16 of them, plus a host of new vehicle parts and characters.

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Matthew 01/21/2016 3:05 PM @Lorcan Hyrule Warriors Legends is locking content for Hyrule Warriors, and Smash DLC is anything but fair. If each character in the main game cost as much as the DLC, the main game would cost 250 dollars just for the characters, not including trophies, music, stages, or modes.

@Steve There was nothing wrong with Smash having DLC, but the prices are ridiculous. All of the content released so

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Steve 01/21/2016 3:07 PM You're definitely right about the fighter DLC prices (I couldn't fit that in the previous comment). Any more than £3 per fighter seems extortionate really.

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Matthew 01/21/2016 3:08 PM far is worth maybe 20 bucks. Twilight Princess still comes with a hero mode, Ganondorf only unlocks a 2X damage count. Adding that to hero mode gives 4X damage. Doesn't really excuse it, though.

@David Yeah, we'll see eventually. The way they've been using amiibo lately doesn't have me that hopeful, though. I didn't think they would lock content when they first released, I thought they

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Lorcan 01/21/2016 3:09 PM i don't understand why people are complaining about the tp hd amiibo content its extra content and no one said you have to buy it. And none of it is already on the disc and there might be a hero mode as well as the ganondorf double damage

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Matthew 01/21/2016 3:10 PM would be used for more unique purposes like in Smash, or even unimportant little costumes like in Mario Kart or Yoshi's Wooly World. Nothing game breaking, just little trinkets for those that have the figure. @Cody like I said, the DLC itself isn't bad but the prices are ludicrous.

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Steve 01/21/2016 3:10 PM Ah, I didn't know there was a separate hero mode to the Ganondorf amiibo and they stack. Is that confirmed on the trailer? (I'm deliberately not looking at the trailer as want to see the new dungeon when I get there myself).

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Blake 01/21/2016 3:11 PM Four groups that I'm noticing:

The Splatoon "DLC" doesn't feel like DLC, but regardless, they've handled that game well (except for amiibo). I feel like TFH is the same way.

MK8 and NSLU are also amazing, but I didn't have to pay for NSLU. It came with my console. Great value, lots of extra content.

Fates and HW seem similar, with a whole lot of content at a big price. Worth it? Probably.

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Zeke 01/21/2016 3:13 PM I hope Nintendo don't try to pull any funny business with the new Zelda U game. I'm glad the TPHD amiibo content isn't anything grand, because if was an actual new dungeon.Me, and other people would have a big problem with that.

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Blake 01/21/2016 3:13 PM Should it come as one game? Possibly.

And finally, Smash. It doesn't follow the same pattern as any of the games you listed, but it resembles the theme shop purchases and Badge Arcade. There are lots of things to buy, and they are cheap individually, but very overpriced if you're a completionist. Buy one character, or maybe one theme, and you win. Buy all of it, you lose a terrible deal.

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Spinalwolf 01/21/2016 3:15 PM I think they're doing an alright job when it comes to dlc. Sure the dlc for smash is a bit overpriced but aside from that, I think they do an excellent job in terms of dlc.

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Cody 01/21/2016 3:15 PM Maybe the Smash prices. But Mario Kart I think is a great deal. For $13 or $12 you get so many new cart combinations, 16 new tracks and new characters. I think the stages are the big highlight. They put a ton of effort into them and it really shows, they are beautiful to look at with great new songs, Super Bell Subway being my personal favorite song, Wild Woods my favorite track of the game.

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Matthew 01/21/2016 3:22 PM @Steve It hasn't been confirmed, as far as I know, but it's basically a guarantee since Hero Mode does more than just double damage.

@Cody I agree there, the Mario Kart 8 DLC was a great value.

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2 week ban 01/21/2016 3:29 PM The Smash DLC in my opinion was DLC done right

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Matthew 01/21/2016 3:42 PM How so? E Yeah! e 0

Nintendoer 01/21/2016 4:13 PM I, too, would like to hear how you think the Smash DLC is "done right".

Because if you compare the prices of the DLC to the content already in the game, you find that it is horribly, horribly overpriced. Take the characters, for example. There were already ~50 characters in the game. If you ignore everything else, that comes to just over a dollar per character if you buy the Wii U version.

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Nintendoer 01/21/2016 4:16 PM The DLC characters? 5-6 dollars. About five times what they should cost, and they don't even have custom moves.

Even that is a generous estimate, considering I didn't factor in stages, game modes, etc. that also come with the $60 price tag.

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David 01/21/2016 4:46 PM There seems to have been a bit of a backlash with the Amiibo functionality for TP HD in particular so I would imagine it's something they'll take into consideration going forwards, it's a difficult balancing act as I've mentioned previously. Who knows if they'll even stick with them for NX...I'm assuming they will.

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David 01/21/2016 4:49 PM The more consumer focused approach is something they should focus on more in my opinion to stand out from the competition, I was pleasantly surprised with the content provided in the TFH free expansion and as a result of they produce paid DLC I'll be far more likely to chuck some more money their way! E Yeah! e 2

Nintendoer 01/21/2016 4:50 PM I also want to mention that, while the HWL stuff is pretty bad, the DLC that came out for the Wii U release was a great deal, right up there with the MK8 DLC, if you ask me.

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Matthew 01/21/2016 4:56 PM @David They would be crazy to discontinue them. The things had sold 21 million way back in October, I bet it's over 25 now. They're making so much money off of them.

That will frustrate me if they keep locking important content behind them.

@Nintendoer The regular DLC wasn't bad, but locking content behind an entirely different game is low.

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David 01/21/2016 5:12 PM Oh yeah, they'd be mad not to continue them really. You know my thoughts on them off course but then I'm not the target market and as they bring in the dollars they'll no doubt remain a focus. Just need to nail down the content they unlock so they don't have to much of an impact yet still appear worthwhile. I do think the content should be available as standard DLC too though.

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Elzonire 01/21/2016 5:13 PM I just hope that nothing important is locked away in Zelda U because of .

E Yeah! e 2 Nintendoer 01/21/2016 5:21 PM Ah, but that's no reason to scoff at HW's DLC as a whole. Some was great. The whole deal with Legends is not. It's as simple as that.

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Stagger 01/21/2016 5:24 PM I have to cosign w/ Lorcan and Nintendoer on how amazing the HW dlc was, and w/ Matthew on how awful everything about HWL seems. I mean everything, not just the backwards lock to the WiiU title. The fact that they didn't make N3ds exclusive is just terrible hardware management. I'll elaborate if the argument that follows isn't obvious.

No TP spoilers for me. :p I've heard enough, and I have all

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Stagger 01/21/2016 5:26 PM the LoZ-related amiibo, so I'm not fussing.

TFH nailed it, great points by David about that and Nintendo's unfamiliarity w/ the stuff to begin with ... everything I hear at a distance from the Smash, Splatoon and MK8 dlc seems well represented here. The former was robbery. The middle seems frivolous but hard to complain about. The latter seems pretty well executed. What about you Shovelry heads?

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Ray 01/21/2016 5:49 PM By Splatoon DLC are you referring to the amiibo or the free updates?

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Ray 01/21/2016 5:54 PM And I have to agree with y'all on the MK8 DLC: it was great value for sure.

E Yeah! e 0 Rau 01/21/2016 7:06 PM I can DLC temples for Zelda U already. I wouldn't even be mad.

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Matthew 01/22/2016 7:05 AM @Nintendoer Fair enough.

@Stagger You have all the amiibo, but everybody who's gonna play TPHD doesn't. Somebody is going to miss out.

@Ray The free updates. I don't mind the amiibo in Splatoon that much, since the items they give are purely for looks, but nobody can complain about fre updates that triple the game's content.

@Rau Please don't.

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Falko 01/22/2016 7:30 AM I guess it also depends how many companies are working behind one title. Like in Smash: There are Sora, Square, Capcom, Sega, as main producer Bandai Namco and now Platinum Games behind it, just to name the real 3rd party studios. They all dont give their licenses for free. On HW, Koei Tecmo is behind it, but I think they did a fine job with it, and they really were listening to fans

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Falko 01/22/2016 7:37 AM The 3DS version of HW looks average, but the content in the Wii U version was fine. In MK8, there is only EAD aka real Nintendo behind it, so they can do the dlc and probably even earn more than with Smash. Splatoon and TFH get the free dlc for promoting reasons I guess. Splatoon because it was a surprising hit and is supposed to do better now. TFH because the sells doing not well so make free dlc E Yeah! e 0

Falko 01/22/2016 7:45 AM Just (Fire Emblem) doesnt really care for the players. To boost they profit, they add dlc in. It also saved their IP with Awakening, but now its unnecessary money making. For TP HD I cant see the point why people are complaining, the figures only add minimal stuff except for Midna and Wolf Link. And even their I think it's fine from what I know until now

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Matthew 01/22/2016 8:51 AM @Falko There's something I didn't think about, those third party characters have to have the profits split among multiple companies. All the more reason not to have third parties invloved...

I've noticed lately that IS cares more for moeny than the fans.

Midna and Wolf Link are the exact things I'm complaining about. Miss the amiibo? You're locked out of content in TPHD, HWL, and Zelda U.

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Blake 01/22/2016 9:43 AM You stated the problem with Wolf Link perfectly.

People still beleive that "extra" content is "extra" just because an amiibo unlocks it. The truth is, no matter what you must do to unlock a dungeon, item, or boss, it's not extra. There are people that strive for 100% completion, and they are constantly locked out of that because they don't want to pay $45 to a scalper.

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Sciz 01/22/2016 10:19 AM Do I think the HWL stuff should be sold separate from the game? Yes. I see no problem behind DLC or amiibo as long as the game they work for is complete without them. Smash, Hyrule Warriors, and TPHD (though that dungeon behind Wolf Link might be a little too far) are complete without the amiibo/DLC extras, so I have no qualms save the two I already mentioned.

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Sciz 01/22/2016 10:42 AM As for pricing, everything Nintendo has released, in my opinion, is (mostly) fairly priced. I don't claim to fully understand the processes behind game making, but I can tell you that all of the new character additions for Smash took more work, time, and money than any of the other games DLC. Veterans were probably relatively easy, so I think they should've been cheaper.

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Sciz 01/22/2016 10:52 AM One thing you have to remember is that, whether or not you bought both games or are buying the DLC for both games, Smash 4 is two games on two different systems, which compounds the amount of work they have to do, which was already huge. Also, Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta are all not owned by Nintendo, which makes them cost even more money than the others.

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Sciz 01/22/2016 11:08 AM All of the DLC in Smash (including the relatively pointless Mii Fighter costumes), if purchased in the various bundles currently comes to $81.35. My guess is the last bundle will be slightly less than $20, thereby doubling the price of the game. The ratio is higher than Mario Kart or Hyrule Warriors, but the ratio of revenue to cost is not so far off.

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Sciz 01/22/2016 11:23 AM Assuming they make a second fighter-only bundle (with their accompanying stages), which would be around the same price as the first, and you buy everything but the Mii costumes, the price is ~$50. So the Mii Fighter costumes are totally rip-offs, and the price is increased by 1.5x. Which compared to the 1.33x of Hyrule Warriors, is not that far off.

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Stagger 01/22/2016 1:24 PM What is all this pathetic, whiny, communist claptrap? Scalpers? Preorder. How hard is that? It's not like the TP bundle w/ the Wolf Link amiibo sold out in a day. We all knew they would lock content when amiibo were unveiled. Deal w/ capitalism or visit the app store.

Nintendo is a corporation. Disney Infinity and Skylanders sell like gangbusters. Math! *grumble grumble old man's breakfast time*

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Stagger 01/22/2016 1:50 PM Now after eating, I realize that a big chunk of Nintendo's fan base is dependent on someone else to buy things for them. I also know that certain amiibos are pretty tough to get ahold of, because Ninty was conservative producing adequate numbers of their less popular characters. There are problems. Ganondorf isn't one of them, and the Wolf Link bundle w/ TPHD isn't either. They were very clear

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Stagger 01/22/2016 1:52 PM about its function though, and produced enough that even the massive LoZ fanbase didn't manage to buy through all available preorders in a week.

Is it unfair to those who weren't paying attention? I feel like that question has an oxymoronic quality. Even the HWL backwards lock on HW, which I detest,is a pretty smart business decision. Nintendo has to make a lot more of those.

E Yeah! e 1 Matthew 01/22/2016 5:21 PM @Stagger It goes past the fact of obtaining the amiibo, which I could do easily, it's more the fact that simple features are locked behind relatively pricey figures.

Very true, but when do smart business decisions become anti-consumer? Companies have to keep in mind that transactions take two parties.

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Rau 01/22/2016 5:37 PM Please don't?

It would be awesome. A tear after the game comes out they should release a 2 temple side storyline. It would be great! DLC worth paying for.

Nintendo's smart business plan: spend 3 years remaking games instead of producing new ones. Sell out franchise to . Abandon the Wii U ship, dlc amiibo, keep fans in the dark about anything new. (b-_-)b

Two thumbs up.

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Sciz 01/22/2016 7:06 PM Your complaints about Hyrule Warriors will never faze me, Rau. It's a great game.

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Rau 01/22/2016 8:00 PM Your optimism will never faze me, Sciz. Hahaha! Help me..

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Ray 01/22/2016 8:37 PM Communist? Heheh, very amusing Stagger. I don't think anyone here is saying all of Nintendo's games should be free and ad-supported, download only. ;) The point seems to be that if someone wants to buy the game sometime after release, say, a year or two after, then it could be difficult to find the amiibo at a reasonable price / in a physical store.

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Ray 01/22/2016 8:42 PM And Sciz, with the Mii fighter costumes in Smash, I quite agree that they're not worth it as a whole. I do agree with Blake's opinion that they're probably worth it individually if you just want one or two costumes,though. Honestly, I never play as the Mii fighters in Smash Bros. anyway, so it doesn't really concern me. As for the Smash bundles, it's too bad that they aren't a discount c.f. MK8.

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Stagger 01/22/2016 9:34 PM Fair points. Rau is the master of sarcasm ... which is a rhetorical tactic considered as potent in argumentation as an insult. :p My maple leaf waving friend is right though. LoZ remakes are killing the property.

I like Ray's point about years down the line, but I expect Nintendo to release a workaround paid dlc one to three months after launch. Just for reference, you can STILL preorder the TPHD

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Stagger 01/22/2016 9:36 PM bundle w/ Wolf Link and spend ten more dollars than the standard edition. Given day one access to the added content and possession of the amiibo, I don't see what the fuss is about.

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Rau 01/22/2016 11:18 PM Okay. I'm trying. It's like I don't know when I'm being rude or not. It's a different ballpark when you guys can't hear or see me.

I keep forgetting that sarcasm is the most petty way to hold dialogue. It's not polite or particularly constructive. Definitely not good conduct coming from a maple leafer.

Nintendo is still doing well, despite my vitriol.

It's my turn to *grumble grumble*

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Burak 01/23/2016 5:09 AM Well it's not all made by the same people so... I just hope the ones who make awful dlc learn to do that never again. FE Fates is the worst!

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Steve 01/23/2016 10:52 AM I'm not bothered about there being multiple editions/campaigns for FE Fates. Just as long as each one is the same length as Awakening (or close to it at least).

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Jai-kun 01/24/2016 11:29 AM Amiibo succeed the e-reader/cheat codes. Fire Emblem Fates' multiple versions succeeded the multiple versions of the Zelda Oracle games. There policies haven't changed, just updated.

E Yeah! e 0 Matthew 01/25/2016 7:54 AM @Rau Oh, I thought you meant like disconnected dungeons at 5 dollars each for a total of 30 or something like that. A side story would be alright.

@Jaiden There's a difference between two games releasing on the same day, and the same game having multiple versions. The Oracles are the former, Fates is the latter. If you look at past FEs, most had multiple campaigns. Fates doesn't, you have to buy

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Matthew 01/25/2016 7:56 AM an entirely different cart to get what was free in the past. Beyond that, there's the third campaign, and IS is bold enough to ask players tk pay even more for DLC maps. It's also worth mentioning that they've locked characters behind amiibo, very rare ones at that.

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Jai-kun 01/25/2016 10:33 AM From what I've read about Fates (seeing as neither of us have played it yet) only the very beginning is the same, while the two campaigns act as entirely different games. You're still getting a full game even if you only buy one version, similar to the Oracle games. And extra DLC maps to play that have nothing to do with the story for a couple bucks? I don't see why that's a problem.

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Jai-kun 01/25/2016 10:38 AM Also, about the amiibo characters, while there is the argument that they should have been free b/c past games like FE:A had them, (even though you had to pay for the DLC maps to get them) the amiibo versions actually seem to make them good characters (I think). Heck, they put the effort to give and their Smash costumes, as opposed to copy-pasting their boring Awakening outfits.

E Yeah! e 0 Stagger 01/25/2016 1:49 PM Rau for Prime Minister!

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Waller 02/27/2016 8:50 PM Intelligent Systems handles Fire Emblem's DLC.

Koei Tecmo handles just about everything Hyrule Warriors, Nintendo has nothing to do with its DLC setup(other than the obligatory okay for it to pass because licensing junk).

Smash DLC is merely overpriced. However, Nintendo doesn't handle the DLC hell of Smash.

Mario Kart 8 DLC and NSLU as NSMBU DLC? THAT'S Nintendo's doing.

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