Wednesday Volume 541 7 March 2012 No. 275

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Wednesday 7 March 2012

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2012 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 827 7 MARCH 2012 828

crime or violence in Northern Ireland. I would appeal House of Commons to everybody to work closely with the PSNI and to pursue whatever political aims they have through peaceful, Wednesday 7 March 2012 democratic means. Robert Halfon: Does my right hon. Friend share my The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock concern that, in what will be a high-profile year for the United Kingdom—and for Harlow, given the number PRAYERS of Olympic events happening in and around my constituency—the security threat in Northern Ireland remains at “severe”? [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend is right to draw attention BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS to the Olympics, which present us with a wonderful opportunity to sell this country. Northern Ireland-related BRITISH MUSEUM (CLOCKS AND WATCHES) terrorism in Great Britain is graded as “substantial”. I Resolved, work closely with my right hon. Friend the Home That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, That Secretary, and I saw the Minister for Justice in Northern she will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid Ireland on Monday. Together we are determined to before this House a Return of the Report from the Honourable ensure that there should be no threat to a peaceful and Sir Donnell Deeny, Chairman of the Spoliation Advisory Panel, successful Olympics. dated 7 March 2012, in respect of fourteen clocks and watches now in the possession of the British Museum, London.—(Mr Jeremy Hunt.) Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): The Secretary of State will be aware of a murder in Londonderry in recent weeks and the continuing targeting by dissident republicans of a number of people, and not Oral Answers to Questions just in the border area, but across Northern Ireland. Is he content in his discussions with the Chief Constable and the Minister for Justice that the necessary resources NORTHERN IRELAND are in place to deal with the escalating problem? Mr Paterson: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for The Secretary of State was asked— mentioning that disgusting and deplorable murder. I Security Situation spoke to the Chief Constable this morning, and I would remind the hon. Gentleman that we agreed a special 1. Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): What package of £200 million at the request of the Chief recent assessment he has made of the security situation Constable, who said in April last year: in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement. “We have the resources, we have the resilience and we have the [97673] commitment.” 11. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): What recent Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): assessment he has made of the security situation in When he recently acquitted those charged with the Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement. murder of Tommy English, Mr Justice Gillen reminded [97684] us that the use of accomplice evidence is long established and, in the words of his judgment, is The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen “a price worth paying in the interest of protecting the public from Paterson): As I stated last week in my first bi-annual major criminals”. statement on the security situation in Northern Ireland, Will the Secretary of State confirm that the relevant the threat remains severe. Tackling terrorism in all its provisions of the Serious Organised Crime and Police forms and within the rule of law remains the highest Act 2005 will remain available to the PSNI? priority for this Government. We will continue to work as closely as possible with our strategic partners in the Mr Paterson: I will check the exact details of those Police Service of Northern Ireland, the Northern Ireland provisions and get back to the right hon. Gentleman. Executive and the Irish Government to counter this threat. Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): Does Pauline Latham: I welcome the steps being taken to my right hon. Friend agree that it is impossible to reduce the number of terrorist attacks in Northern engage in dialogue with dissident organisations that Ireland, but as my right hon. Friend said in his recent show no signs at all of renouncing their violent or written ministerial statement, violent activity is still criminal ways? being undertaken by loyalist organisations. What measures are being taken to address this issue? Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend is quite right. As I said a few moments ago, there is absolutely no excuse for Mr Paterson: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that pursuing political aims by anything other than peaceful question and would immediately like to pay tribute to democratic means, through the Assembly and representation my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, who has in this Parliament. There are small numbers of groups done a huge amount of work, talking to a number of that do not accept the current settlement, and we are loyalist groups. There is absolutely no place for organised determined to bear down on them. 829 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 830

Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab): May I say again to Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Does the the Secretary of State that we will stand with him in Secretary of State agree that, in addition to there being tackling any threat to security in Northern Ireland? In enormous advantages and benefits for Northern Ireland tackling terrorism, resources for the police and security being part of the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom services are obviously paramount. Does he also agree, itself has been strengthened and enriched by the however, that the many community and voluntary contribution of the people of Northern Ireland—and, organisations in Northern Ireland contribute hugely to indeed, of the other constituent nations of the United a peaceful and stable society? Can he therefore update Kingdom—not least through the willing and voluntary the House on progress with the Peace IV funding bid to service of many generations of Ulstermen and women the European Union, which is so helpful to maintaining in Her Majesty’s forces? security? Mr Paterson: I entirely endorse the right hon. Mr Paterson: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for Gentleman’s comments. Right across every sphere of his continued support on these serious security issues, national life, there are glorious examples—spectacularly which must remain a bilateral matter. I entirely agree so in golf this week—of individuals from Northern with him about the community projects and funds. Ireland who have shone. What we are putting into security can only contain the problem; the long-term solution is to get deep into Mr Dodds: I am grateful for the Secretary of State’s those communities. I called a meeting with Eamon endorsement of the Union of Northern Ireland and the Gilmore and the First Minister and Deputy First Minister rest of Great Britain. He rightly refers to the great to look at the Peace IV funds, which we think would sporting success of our golfers, and let us not forget our come from our existing budgets. snooker player who won the world championship. He mentioned the opinion poll conducted in the highly Vernon Coaker: I thank the Secretary of State for his respected Queen’s university survey, which showed that response. The financial support for communities, currently more than 80% of people wanted to stay within the almost £300 million, is crucial to combating paramilitarism, United Kingdom. Will he now confirm to the House maintaining security and ensuring that we continue to that he has no intention whatever of organising any build the peaceful future in Northern Ireland that we all kind of border poll in Northern Ireland, given the want. Will he ensure that he gives this matter the urgent settled position of the people there and the levels of attention that it deserves? satisfaction with the present constitutional settlement? Mr Paterson: I can reassure the right hon. Gentleman Mr Paterson: I would genuinely like to reassure the on that. As Secretary of State, I have the right to call a hon. Gentleman that we talk about this matter frequently, poll when I feel like it; I have an obligation to call a poll not only with the First Minister and Deputy First when there is a clear indication that there would be a Minister but with the Justice Minister, whom I saw on vote for a united Ireland. Given that only 17.4% were in Monday. A lot of these projects are now in devolved favour of that option, and the fact that I have received hands—many of them in the hands of the Department hardly any phone calls, e-mails or letters on the issue, I of Justice—and we entirely agree that they need to have no intention of calling a poll at the moment. We carry on. should concentrate on the economy and on building a shared future; that is the real priority for the people in United Kingdom Northern Ireland.

2. Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): What Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): In addition recent assessment he has made of the benefits to to what my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has Northern Ireland of remaining part of the UK. [97674] said about the economy and the many great advantages to all parts of the United Kingdom of being part of the Union, will he confirm that the present level of public The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen expenditure in Northern Ireland could not be sustained Paterson): This Government firmly believe in the United under any other constitutional arrangements, regardless Kingdom. We believe that what we can achieve together of the destination of the Province? will always be much more than we can ever do apart. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has made Mr Paterson: The Chairman of the Select Committee clear, we will always back the democratic wishes of the makes a telling point. Public spending per head in people of Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is currently £10,706, which is about 25% higher than it is in England. That is a huge advantage Nigel Adams: I am extremely grateful for that reply. for Northern Ireland. It gives us time to rebalance the Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Union ensures economy as well as showing the key role that membership that all parts of the UK can be part of a larger and of the UK plays for the people in Northern Ireland. stronger economy? Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): Further to the Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. words of the right hon. Member for Belfast North Having only 2.8% of the UK population, Northern (Mr Dodds), one of the advantages and benefits of the Ireland benefits enormously from being part of the United Kingdom is a common defence policy, to which United Kingdom. I was interested to see a poll yesterday men and women of Northern Ireland have contributed that had been conducted by Queen’s university, which greatly. How does the Secretary of State feel, on today showed that 82.6% wanted to remain in the UK, and of all days, about men and women who are military only 17.4% wanted a united Ireland. personnel being made compulsorily redundant. 831 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 832

Mr Paterson: I am a strong supporter of the Mr Swire: We meet Church leaders frequently, and military in Northern Ireland. I wear the Royal Irish this is one of the matters we discuss with them. It is fair wristband, because that regiment is stationed at Tern to say that the Secretary of State and I recently met the Hill in my constituency. [Interruption.] What I feel is United Nations Deputy High Commissioner for Human that we inherited a complete mess from the last Labour Rights—and we discussed this matter with her. We Government. We are currently borrowing £232,000 a cannot get much higher than that. minute, so, sadly, the Government have had to take very difficult decisions. Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind): As well as corresponding with the leaders of political parties in Bill of Rights Northern Ireland, will the Minister kindly tell us whether his right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General 3. Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab): What meetings he actually believes that Northern Ireland needs a separate has had with political parties in Northern Ireland on a Bill of Rights? Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland. [97675] Mr Swire: My right hon. and learned Friend came to The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Northern Ireland several times when we were in opposition. Swire): In September, my right hon. Friend the Secretary He was always of the belief, as we are, that any rights of State wrote to party leaders suggesting the possibility particular to Northern Ireland should be tagged on to of the Assembly taking forward work in this area; we any UK Bill of Rights. I alluded earlier to a lack of have yet to receive a response. Ministers and officials consensus. The hon. Lady will be aware that in a debate have continued to discuss this issue with human rights in the Assembly last year, Members voted by 46 to organisations since. 42 against a motion calling for a robust, enforceable Bill of Rights. As I said in answer to the right hon. Member Paul Murphy: The Minister will know, of course, that for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) earlier, that is a perfect the establishment of a Bill of Rights for Northern example of the problem we face. We cannot impose; this Ireland was part of the Good Friday agreement, and has to come from within Northern Ireland. When it that it is a matter for all people in Northern Ireland. does, we will respond accordingly. Will he not accept, however, that both he and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State have a duty to bring Pat Finucane Review about consensus rather than simply to listen to what people are saying without doing what is right and 4. Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): What proper to ensure that we get consensus among all the representations he has received from the Finucane political parties in Northern Ireland? family since his announcement of the Pat Finucane review. [97676] Mr Swire: The House will want to acknowledge the right hon. Gentleman’s part in the Good Friday agreement The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen in trying to pursue the Bill of Rights. Frankly, however, Paterson): I have not received any representations from that was when he should have pursued it, instead of the Finucane family since the establishment of the Pat squandering the good will that he and his Government Finucane review last October. had generated at that time. Let me give the right hon. Valerie Vaz: The Secretary of State will know that the Gentleman a couple of quick examples of our problem. Finucane family, Madden and Finucane Solicitors, Judge First, the Secretary of State wrote to the First and Cory, the Irish Government, the United Nations special Deputy First Ministers and all the party leaders back in rapporteur and the Weston Park agreement have all September, but he has had no reply to his letters. called for a public inquiry. May I urge him to meet the Secondly, the Secretary of State for Justice wrote to the Finucane family and Madden and Finucane Solicitors, Office of the First Minister, asking it to nominate so that the truth of the murder of Pat Finucane can be someone for the commission. It is now March, but no established and the reconciliation can be completed? reply has been received. We thus face a problem, as we see no way forward without consensus. Mr Paterson: We have gone into the issue in some detail in written statements and in an oral statement Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): Does the made a couple of months ago. I wrote to Mrs Finucane Minister agree that this important work towards a Bill soon after we came to power, and when I met her in of Rights in Northern Ireland—and, indeed, human November 2010—I was the first Secretary of State to rights more generally there—might have a useful role to do so for some years—I established with her that we play in the Government’s determination to do something wanted to get to the truth. I think that the method we about significant reform of the European Court of have chosen, a review of a huge archive that is more Human Rights? extensive than that available to Saville, is a quicker way of getting to the truth, and will deliver satisfaction to Mr Swire: As my hon. Friend knows, a UK commission the family. I am more than happy to meet them, and I is being set up to look into the matter. We want Northern hope that they will work closely with the de Silva review. Ireland to be represented on it. Equally, we believe that this commission could provide the necessary vehicle for Several hon. Members rose— the inclusion of rights particular to Northern Ireland. Mr Speaker: Order. These are extremely serious matters, Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Has the Secretary but we need to speed up the exchanges somewhat. of State had any meetings or correspondence with other stakeholder groups that might be interested in or concerned Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): When does about a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland—Churches, my right hon. Friend expect to receive Sir Desmond de advice bureaux or Women’s Aid, for example? Silva’s final report? 833 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 834

Mr Paterson: Sir Desmond was asked to report back Andrea Leadsom: On the eve of the Budget, and in by December this year. the light of the clear need to improve our economy and opportunities for inward investment, what assessment Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): When was the Secretary has my hon. Friend made of the co-operation between of State made aware that the legal representatives of the Invest NI and UK Trade and Investment? Finucane family were indicating that they would accept a public inquiry under the Inquiries Act 2005, based on Mr Swire: I have made a very good assessment. I am the Baha Mousa standards and principles? Did he a member of the Economic Affairs (Trade and Investment) inform the Prime Minister, and who decided to head off Cabinet Sub-Committee, and I am glad to say that it is that credible option at the pass at the Downing street to discuss ways in which UKTI and the devolved meeting? Administrations can co-operate better. There will be a meeting later in the year, which I think will benefit both Mr Paterson: We discussed all sorts of options for organisations. arriving at the truth as fast as possible. My public statement is on the record, and a judicial review is in progress. I think that the full details will be revealed in Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Despite that. the best efforts of the Northern Ireland Executive, rates of business formation in Northern Ireland are lower Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): In the context of than in the rest of the UK. What plans do the Government victim issues such as the Finucane murder, is the Secretary have to make good their fault as identified by the of State alarmed by what has happened in relation to Business Secretary that they lack a compelling vision on other cases, such as the murder of Tommy English? In the economy? that case, the police appointed an independent oversight team consisting of a political appointee and an English Mr Swire: As this is Northern Ireland questions, I barrister. It was the first time that such a team had ever think I should limit myself to Northern Ireland. We been appointed in connection with a British case involving have a very clear idea of the economy in Northern a police investigation. Does the Secretary of State agree Ireland. We want to support it, and we believe it needs that that was a reckless act which must never be repeated to be rebalanced. [Interruption.] This afternoon the in an independent police investigation? joint ministerial working group on rebalancing the economy will meet to examine the possible devolvement of Mr Paterson: I think that in all these areas we must be corporation tax to Northern Ireland, which we believe very careful to respect the independence of the police in would be a significant move. [Interruption.] operational matters, the independence of the prosecuting authorities and the independence of the judiciary, and I would apply those principles to the hon. Gentleman’s Several hon. Members rose— comments. Mr Speaker: Order. There are far too many noisy Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): The case of Pat private conversations taking place in the Chamber. As a Finucane is one of many cases in Northern Ireland that matter of courtesy to the people of Northern Ireland, it reflect the tragic legacy of our past, and we believe that would be good to have a bit of hush. a comprehensive process is needed to address that. Can the Secretary of State update us on his recent discussions with local parties about how to proceed with that David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): I am sure the approach? Minister will agree that inward investment into Northern Ireland is always welcome, but we must not forget small Mr Paterson: As the hon. Lady knows, I established indigenous businesses that have been there for many that there was no consensus at my meeting with her and years. [Interruption.] Will he join me in welcoming the other members of her party on Monday. Some parties £30-million investment by the Asda group in one site in want to draw a line in the sand and cease all activity, my constituency, which is in an area that has not had while others favour the establishment of an extensive investment for 35 years? [Interruption.] international legacy commission. We will continue to work, and talk to individuals and local parties, but at Mr Speaker: Order. It would be good if we could hear the moment I see no consensus. the reply. The House must come to order. Inward Investment Mr Swire: Of course I welcome that investment. The 5. Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): hon. Gentleman is a doughty champion of business in What discussions he has had on promoting inward his constituency, and I look forward to spending a day with him shortly. He will be aware of the growth fund, investment in Northern Ireland. [97678] which will help small and medium-sized enterprises The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo with strong potential for growth, particularly in the Swire): My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and international markets. We believe these moves by the I regularly meet the First and Deputy First Ministers devolved Administration are the right ones. and their colleagues in support of the Executive’s efforts to attract foreign direct investment, and I have just Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP): Has returned from accompanying the Minister of Enterprise, any progress been made on the devolution of corporation Trade and Investment on a trade mission to the Gulf tax responsibility? When can we expect something to states in support of two Northern Ireland businesses. happen on that front? 835 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 836

Mr Swire: As I have said, following the Loyal Address Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): Economic to Her Majesty, there will this afternoon be a joint development in Northern Ireland is being held up by ministerial working group meeting, at which corporation the reluctance of banks to lend to viable businesses and tax will be discussed. their withdrawing of capital from existing businesses. What discussions has the Minister had about whether Economic Development banks in Northern Ireland are meeting their Merlin targets? Also, why is it that the Merlin target figures 6. Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): What can be published for Scotland, but not for Northern discussions he has had with Ministers in the Northern Ireland? Ireland Executive on economic development. [97679] Mr Swire: The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely 7. David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): What good point, which he also made in the Finance Ministers discussions he has had with Ministers in the Northern quadrilateral last week. We need to get more lending Ireland Executive on economic development. [97680] to companies in Northern Ireland, where we are fishing The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo in a smaller pool because we do not have so many banks Swire):My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and to lend. We want to see those figures and to work I regularly meet the First and Deputy First Ministers together to see how we can get more lending to smaller and their colleagues in support of the Executive’s efforts companies. to develop the economy. We also work closely together Defence Capability on the joint ministerial working group on rebalancing the economy, which—I now say for the third time—will meet this afternoon. 8. Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con): What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of Elizabeth Truss: Manufacturing exports from Northern State for Defence on the contribution of soldiers from Ireland rose in the last quarter, which is great news in Northern Ireland to UK defence capability; and if he respect of the effort to rebalance the economy. What will make a statement. [97681] further steps is the Minister taking to ensure our exports increase? The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson): I would like to pay tribute to all those from Mr Swire: It is good news that Northern Ireland sells Northern Ireland and, indeed, from all regions of the £12.4 billion-worth of manufactured goods abroad, United Kingdom who serve in our armed forces. I and has almost recovered to the pre-recession level in speak regularly with ministerial colleagues across Whitehall sales to Great Britain—indeed, sales to GB achieved a on matters relating to Northern Ireland, including my new record. Those are very positive trends, on which we right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence. seek to build. Simon Kirby: Does my right hon. Friend agree that David Rutley: Investment in research and development much can be learned from the Royal Irish Regiment, is crucial for economic development in Northern Ireland, which recruits from all sections of the community? just as it is in Macclesfield. Will my hon. Friend therefore join me in congratulating the Northern Ireland Executive Mr Paterson: My hon. Friend is absolutely spot on. I on the 6% increase in research and development investment am very proud to have the Royal Irish stationed in my over the past year? constituency. I went to the Barossa dinner on Monday, celebrating the capture of the first French eagle with the Mr Swire: Yes, I will. Research and development is cry: crucial to the development of the economy, and investment “By Jaysus, boys, I have the cuckoo.” in it increased by 6% in Northern Ireland last year, to £334 million. The Northern Ireland Minister of Enterprise, The regiment is a glorious example of an organisation Trade and Investment is keen to continue with research that brings people together from all parts of the community, and development, not least for small and medium-sized including from south of the border. enterprises, which both she and I believe are vital. Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): In Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP): Given recognising the tremendous sacrifice of our brave soldiers the need to pump-prime the economy in Northern from Northern Ireland in contributing to the defence of Ireland and given the fact that the Finance Ministers the United Kingdom, does the Secretary of State met on Monday, are the disputes about the £18-billion acknowledge that there is a time bomb of mental health allocation to Northern Ireland as part of the devolution problems facing those who return from the field of dividend near resolution, and if not, what are the areas conflict? What steps are being taken to assist those of disagreement? people?

Mr Swire: That was not raised officially at the meeting, Mr Paterson: I entirely endorse the hon. Gentleman’s but later on I had my own bilateral over a cup of coffee comments and I pay tribute to the three rangers of the with the Northern Ireland Finance Minister, the hon. Royal Irish who sadly lost their lives in the Helmand Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), who is in his campaign last year. He is absolutely right to draw place. We discussed progress on this matter, and he attention to the mental health problems that can occur informed me that it continues, but it is slow. The Chancellor and I discuss this with my right hon. Friends in Cabinet. is now in his place, too, and he may be interested to He should also discuss it with the local Ministers who learn of what the hon. Lady has just said. This is still are responsible for delivering those services in Northern being discussed, and it will take some time. Ireland. 837 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 838

PRIME MINISTER At moments like these, does the Prime Minister agree that we must restate clearly the reasons for our mission in Afghanistan? A more stable, self-governing Afghanistan The Prime Minister was asked— will produce more stable outcomes in that region and Engagements ensure greater safety for our citizens here at home.

Q1. [98314] Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford) The Prime Minister: I thank the right hon. Gentleman (Con): If he will list his official engagements for for his words. He is absolutely right. Our mission in Wednesday 7 March. Afghanistan remains vital to our national security. We are there to prevent that country from being a safe The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): I hope you haven for al-Qaeda, from where they might plan attacks will permit me, Mr Speaker, before I answer any questions, on the UK or our allies. Our task is simple: to equip the to make the following announcement. Yesterday, a Warrior Afghan Government and the forces of Afghanistan armoured fighting vehicle on patrol near the eastern with the capability and capacity to take care of their border of Helmand province was struck by an explosion. own national security without the need for foreign It is with very great sadness that I must tell the House troops on their soil. That is our aim. We are making that six soldiers are missing, believed killed. Five of progress. The Afghan national army stands at 184,000, them are from the 3rd Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment on target for 195,000 by the end of this year. The and one is from the 1st Battalion the Duke of Lancaster’s Afghan national police, standing at 145,000, are on Regiment. Our thoughts are with the family and friends target for 157,000 at the end of this year. We are making of those brave servicemen. This will be the largest loss progress. It is absolutely essential for bringing our troops of life in a single incident in Afghanistan since 2006. It home, but I agree with the right hon. Gentleman: we takes the overall number of casualties that we have need to restate clearly why we are there and why it is in suffered in Afghanistan to more than 400. Every death our national interest. The commander of the battalion and every injury reminds us of the human cost paid by told me today that his men have high morale, they know our armed forces to keep our country safe. I have they are doing an important mission for the future of spoken this morning to the Chief of the Defence Staff, this country and the future of the world, and they want the Chief of the General Staff and the commanding our support as they go about it. officer of 3rd Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment. They each stressed the commitment of our troops to the mission and to getting the job done. I know that everyone Edward Miliband: I thank the Prime Minister for that will want a message of support and backing for our answer. He and I also agree that it is essential that we troops and their families to go out from this House build now for a political settlement in Afghanistan for today. when our troops are gone. Can he take this moment to update the House on what diplomatic progress is being This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues made on securing the broader and more inclusive political and others, and in addition to my duties in the House I settlement needed for a stable Afghanistan? Does he shall have further such meetings later today. further agree that the whole international community must up the pace of progress towards that political Nick Boles: I echo the Prime Minister’s tribute to the settlement, to ensure that we do all we can to make fallen. Their service and their sacrifice humbles us all. concrete progress between now and the departure of With this terrible news in mind, will my right hon. our combat troops at the end of 2014? Friend use his meetings next week with President Obama to co-ordinate a prudent draw-down of allied forces in Afghanistan and to ensure that Afghan forces get the The Prime Minister: We are clearly planning the training and equipment they need to take over? increase in the army and the police—the physical forces that will take over—but the greatest difference we could The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend for his make is a stronger political settlement that will ensure question. Next week is an opportunity to make sure that Afghanistan has the chance for real peace, stability, that Britain and America, as the two largest contributors prosperity and security in the future. There are some to the ISAF mission in Afghanistan, are absolutely in good signs, in that there are now proper discussions lock-step about the importance of training up the Afghan between the Afghan and Pakistan Governments. A army, training up the Afghan police and making sure clear message is coming out of Afghanistan and Pakistan that all NATO partners have a properly co-ordinated to all those who are engaged in violence to give up that process for transition in that country, so that the Afghans violence and join a political process. There is strong can take responsibility for the security of their own support for that across the Arab world, particularly in country, and we can bring our forces home. the middle east. We need to give that process every possible support and send a clear message to the Taliban: Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): I join the whether it is our troops or Afghan troops who are there, Prime Minister in expressing profound sadness at the the Taliban will not win on the battlefield. They never terrible news of our six soldiers who are missing, feared win on the battlefield, and now it is time for a political dead. Today, we are reminded of the ongoing commitment settlement to give the country a chance for peaceful and sacrifice that our service personnel make on our progress. behalf. By putting themselves in harm’s way for our benefit, they demonstrate the utmost service and courage. Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): I, We owe them and all those who have lost their lives in too, echo the Prime Minister’s tribute—as do other Afghanistan an immense debt of gratitude, and our Members across the House—to our brave men and thoughts are with their family, friends and colleagues at women who are asked to make sacrifices on a daily this terrible time. basis to keep our country safe and ensure a peaceful 839 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 840

Afghanistan. Will the Prime Minister confirm that, independence payment. As someone who has actually despite those tragic events, ISAF will remain in Afghanistan filled out the form for disability allowance and had a in one form or another for as long as it takes to child with cerebral palsy, I know how long it takes to fill complete the mission for a safe, secure and stable in that form. We are going to have a proper medical test Afghanistan, with the Afghan people taking responsibility so that people who are disabled and need that help get it for their own security? more quickly.

The Prime Minister: We have a clear timetable, which Q5. [98319] Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): is all about transitioning parts of Afghanistan to Afghan On Friday—[Interruption.] security control, to allow our troops to move into the background and eventually out of the country.In Helmand Mr Speaker: Order. I say to the hon. Member for itself, where we have been for all these years—one of the Brighton, Kemptown (Simon Kirby) that he will stay toughest parts of Afghanistan—Lashkar Gah, the effective silent. That sort of noise is not acceptable in this forum. capital, is now controlled by Afghan forces. The process is ongoing. I believe it can be properly completed by the Nadhim Zahawi: On Friday, PC Trevor Hall and end of 2014, so that we leave in a proper and orderly PCSO Claire Miller, two of the best from Warwickshire fashion, handing over to Afghan troops. Let us be clear: police, came to see me about the life-threatening effects the relationship between Britain and other countries of a new legal high called black mamba on the life of a and Afghanistan will go on. It will be a relationship of 13-year-old in my constituency. I am informed that military training, of diplomacy, of support, of aid and black mamba is the latest legal high being sold on our help for that country. We must learn the lesson of the streets in the UK. Now that we have regulations that past, which is what a mistake it was to turn away from allow us to act swiftly to ban potentially dangerous Afghanistan. legal highs, will my right hon. Friend act on this substance Q2. [98315] Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) immediately and— (Lab): The Prime Minister’s Business Secretary says of the Government’s action on economic growth: Mr Speaker: Order. We are grateful to the hon. “Our actions are, frankly, rather piecemeal.” Gentleman, who should resume his seat. The question Does the Prime Minister agree? is too long. The Prime Minister: Obviously, I do not agree with The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend raises an important that. What this Government are doing is cutting corporation issue. We are determined to stamp out these so-called tax, investing in apprenticeships, building enterprise legal highs. The Home Office is aware of this particular zones, making sure that right across our economy the drug. We now have the drugs early warning system rebalancing is taking place that is necessary for sustained which brings these things to our attention, but as he economic growth. says, a decision needs swiftly to be made and I will make sure that happens. Q3. [98316] Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con): My constituents have to wait Edward Miliband: Tim Howes is a delivery driver longer to get a hospital appointment than they would from Dartford. He is a married father of three and the in England, they are five times less likely to get certain sole earner in his family. He currently works 20 hours a cancer drugs than they are in England, and if they get week. From next month, under the Prime Minister’s to hospital, they are twice as likely to get an infection proposals, unless he works 24 hours a week he will lose as they are in England. Does this prove to the Prime all his working tax credit, some £60 a week. He says, Minister that we cannot trust Labour with the NHS? “I have approached my employer to possibly increase my hours but I have been told there simply aren’t the hours there. I would The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an important love to work full-time.” point, which is that, if you look at the NHS in Wales, it What is the Prime Minister’s advice to Tim Howes? shows what happens if we do not put in the resources—the money—because the resources are being cut in Wales, and also if we do not reform the NHS to make sure that The Prime Minister: First, let me set the context for there is a proper chance for people to get the treatments this—[HON.MEMBERS: “Answer!”] I will answer the they need. There is not the cancer drugs fund in Wales, question very directly, but we need to reform the tax there are much longer waiting times, and there are much credits system because we have a massive budget deficit. longer waiting lists, and that is an example of what When we came to office, tax credits were going to nine happens without the money and without the reform. out of 10 families, including people right up the income scale, including Members of Parliament. What our Q4. [98317] Dame Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) changes do, in terms of this specific case, is deal with (Lab): The Prime Minister is proud of his welfare the basic unfairness that we ask a single parent to work reforms. [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear.”] Can he look 16 hours before getting access to the tax credit system, me in the eye and tell me he is proud of the decision to so it is only right to say to couples that between them remove all disability benefits from a 10-year-old child they should work 24 hours—that is, 12 hours each. If who can hardly walk and who cannot toilet herself that is the case, and they do that, they will be better off. because she has cerebral palsy? Is he truly proud? Edward Miliband: I have to say to the Prime Minister The Prime Minister: This Government are not cutting that that answer is no use to Mr Howes and his family. the money that is going into disability benefits. We are He cannot find the extra hours and so will lose his— replacing disability living allowance with the personal [Interruption.] The Defence Secretary shouts from a 841 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 842 sedentary position, “What about his wife?” Let me tell and middle-income families are losing their child benefit. him that his wife is looking after their three school-age Does the Prime Minister understand why people just do children and cannot find hours that are consistent with not believe him when he says, “We’re all in this together”? that. Tim Howes and 200,000 couples will lose as a result of this. Before the election, the Prime Minister The Prime Minister: I think that it is time the right said in the TV debates that for Labour hon. Gentleman listened to his own shadow Chief Secretary, “to say that actually the changes we’re making would hit low who said that income families is simply not true.” “we must ensure we pass the test of fiscal credibility. If we don’t Why has he broken that promise? get this right, it doesn’t matter what we say about anything else.” She is absolutely right. Reducing our deficit takes tough The Prime Minister: We have increased the child tax decisions. He has opposed every single cut. He has credit that goes to the poorest families in our country. opposed the welfare cap, the housing benefit cap and To answer the right hon. Gentleman very directly, when legal aid cuts. It is no wonder that when people dial up a we say to a single parent that they have to work 16 hours radio phone-in and eventually work out who he is, they to get access to the tax credits system, I do not think all say the same thing: he is not remotely up to the job. that it is unreasonable to ask a couple to work an average of 12 hours each. That is what we are asking. In Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): Following— a way, this relates to a bigger picture. We have a massive [Interruption.] budget deficit. If he is not going to support the welfare cap, the housing benefit cap, cuts to legal aid or cuts to Mr Speaker: Order. Let us hear from Mr Mark tax credits, how on earth would he deal with the deficit? Pritchard.

Edward Miliband: In case the Prime Minister did not Mark Pritchard: Following last week’s statement on realise this, in Dartford, where the Howes family live, the use of wild animals in circuses, can the Prime five people are chasing every vacancy. It is just not good Minister inform the House whether a ban will be introduced enough for him to say, “Well, they should go out to in this Parliament and before the next general election? work.” If they cannot find the work, they will find that they are better off on benefits than in work because of The Prime Minister: I do want to see a ban introduced. the Prime Minister’s changes, which is something he It is the overwhelming opinion of Members in this said he wanted to avoid. It is also about this matter of House. We are putting in place a regulatory scheme in trust. He made a clear promise, just like he made a clear the short term, but my right hon. Friend the Environment promise on child benefit. Before the election, he said: Secretary made it absolutely clear that it is our intention “I’m not going to flannel you. I’m going to give it to you to introduce a ban in full as well. straight. I like the child benefit. I wouldn’t change child benefit. I wouldn’t means-test it. I don’t think that is a good idea.” Q6. [98320] Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): We have already established that he has broken his Today, the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee promise to low-income families. Why has he broken his published a major report on consumer debt. Last promise to middle-income families, too? November R3 reported that 60% of people were worried about debt and 3.5 million were considering The Prime Minister: Here we go: another change the payday loans. In the year since the Government right hon. Gentleman does not support. He seems to concluded their consultation, no action has been think that people on—[Interruption.] announced. Will the Prime Minister commit to act now to protect vulnerable families, or will he accept that he Mr Speaker: Order. The question has been asked. is simply out of touch with the financial reality facing The Prime Minister’s answer must be heard. them as a result of his policies?

The Prime Minister: Does the right hon. Gentleman The Prime Minister: I think, as the last exchange just really think that people earning £25,000 should pay for proved, we are worried about debt. The whole country his child benefit? I do not agree with that. We have to needs to be worried about debt, and the problem is that make savings, so not giving child benefit to the wealthiest the Labour party does not seem to understand that 15% of families in our country—of course it is a difficult there is a debt problem. There has been a debt problem decision. Life is about difficult decisions. Government in our economy, there is also a debt problem for many is about difficult decisions. It is a pity that he is just not households, and we do need to make sure that they get capable of taking one. help. That is why we are making sure that citizens advice bureaux continue to get help, as they are one of the Edward Miliband: First of all, we are talking about most important services for helping families in that way. families on £43,000 a year. Secondly, it is no good the Prime Minister saying that he now supports the principle Q7. [98321] Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con): The that people on high incomes should not get child benefit, coalition agreement contains many bold and brilliant because before the election he supported the opposite proposals to give Britain the change that we need: open principle and said quite clearly to families up and down primaries, a bonfire of the quangos, and radical this country, “I’m not going to take away your child localism. Sometimes, however, progress has been a little benefit.” In my book there is a very simple word for slower than some of us on the Government Benches that: a broken promise—it is a broken promise by this would have hoped: sometimes the radicalism has been Prime Minister. [HON.MEMBERS: “That’s two.”] They ever so slightly blunted. Is that because of the are right: there are two broken promises. The reality is constraints of coalition, or because of the Whitehall that lower-income families are losing their tax credits machine? 843 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 844

The Prime Minister: It was good to have such a Q9. [98323] Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and helpful start from my hon. Friend. I think that this Devonport) (Con): May I add my personal tributes to Government have done a number of radical things, our fallen? right across the board, whether it is welfare reform to On Monday, Clare’s law came into being. Would my make sure that it always pays to work, education reform right hon. Friend be willing to meet me and Sergeant to give greater independence to our schools, or tax Carney-Haworth to learn at first hand how his team’s reform to give us competitive tax rates. Of course I groundbreaking initiative in Devonport, Operation always want us to go further and faster. I do not blame Encompass, is helping to make sure that children in my the Whitehall machine; in the end the politicians must Sutton and Devonport constituency grow up in an area always take responsibility. where there is no longer any domestic violence?

Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab): My constituent The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely James Toner was arrested in Goa almost three years ago right to raise this constituency issue and to do so this on drugs charges. He was subsequently released when it week, when tomorrow we have international women’s turned out that the police officers who arrested him day. The move that has been made on Clare’s law is were themselves under investigation for corruption. He important; it is a breakthrough to give women this has spent the past 22 months in legal limbo, his passport information if they seek it. I want us to follow that by has been confiscated, he cannot travel, he cannot work looking into a specific offence of stalking. I want us to and he does not even know when his case is going to go continue to support the rape crisis centres, as we are to court. Does the Prime Minister agree that justice under this Government, and to make sure that we act delayed is justice denied, and will he make sure that a on domestic violence right across the board. Foreign Office Minister meets me urgently to discuss the case of my constituent? Visits (Central Ayrshire) The Prime Minister: I will certainly do that. It is very Q10. [98324] Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) important that the hon. Gentleman and others feel that (Lab): When he next expects to visit Central Ayrshire. they can stand up for their constituents on the other side of the world who are being treated in this way, and that we can take up these cases. The work of Fair Trials The Prime Minister: I look forward to visiting Scotland International and other organisations is very important soon. in that respect, and I shall make sure that the Foreign Office meets him soon. Mr Donohoe: I know that the Prime Minister is coming to my constituency very soon indeed—in fact, later this month to attend his Tory party conference in Q8. [98322] Mr Lee Scott (Ilford North) (Con): Will the Prime Minister join me in congratulating the Troon. However, I want to know whether he agrees that project that is starting a pilot in my constituency in the uncertainty that is being created by the Nats around September, funded by the private sector, the London the separatist idea of a referendum that is being delayed borough of Redbridge, and various charities, and in for longer than it should be is leading to uncertainty congratulating also the co-chairs, Richard and Philippa about inward investment in my constituency and elsewhere. Mintz, and the inter-faith group on their work to get While he is in Troon, will he come with me to see some young people with special needs into employment? of the potential for inward investment? That is a promise that he made to me at a meeting a year ago.

The Prime Minister: I will certainly join my hon. The Prime Minister: When the hon. Gentleman asked Friend in supporting that project. It is important that me that question a year ago, I did in fact meet a we help children with special needs through not only delegation from his constituency. I agree with every their schooling time but that transition after school and word that he said, and I make him this offer: as I am into college, and then try to help them to find work. It going to be in Troon, he can make the short trip from sounds like this is an excellent project that deserves his his constituency and we can share a platform together support. to point out the dangers of separatism and the nationalist agenda. Are you up for it? Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West) (Lab): Is it true: Engagements “The problem is that policy is being run by two public school boys who don’t know what it’s like to go to the supermarket and have to put things back on the shelves because they can’t afford it Q11. [98325] Louise Mensch (Corby) (Con): Labour- for their children’s lunchboxes. What’s worse, they don’t care controlled Corby borough council—[Interruption.] either”? Those are not my words, but the words of a Conservative Mr Speaker: Order. I want the hon. Lady’s question Member, the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine to be heard in full with a bit of quiet and perhaps a bit Dorries). of respect.

The Prime Minister: I would have thought that, coming Louise Mensch: Thank you, Mr Speaker. from the north-east, the hon. Lady should be celebrating Labour-controlled Corby borough council is trying the fact that Nissan is going to build its new car in to suppress a report into the scandal at the Corby Cube. Britain—instead of whatever nonsense it was that she Twenty-six million pounds of Corby people’s money read out. has been wasted, and now councillors are being threatened 845 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 846 with disciplinary action if they blow the whistle. Does The Prime Minister: I know from having visited the the Prime Minister agree that the council should come hon. Gentleman’s constituency how important the issue clean with Corby people? of the hospital is. My right hon. Friend the Health Secretary is fully engaged in this issue. Perhaps I can fix The Prime Minister: I absolutely agree with my hon. a meeting between the hon. Gentleman and my right Friend, who raises an important point. There are now hon. Friend to ensure that the issue is dealt with. proposals for total transparency in local government so that expenditure over £500 should be separately documented Q14. [98328] Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab): The and so that all the salaries, names, budgets and Royal Bank of Scotland recently axed another responsibilities of staff paid over £58,000 should be 300 jobs, mostly in Edinburgh and London. However, published, including councillors’ allowances and expenses the jobs have not gone completely, but have been and all the organisational charts. We want the wind of outsourced to India. The Prime Minister and the transparency to go right through local government, Government act on behalf of the biggest shareholder, Corby included. so when will they stand up to RBS and prevent the needless job losses in the UK? John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): Article 16 of the European fiscal compact says very clearly that it will be incorporated into the European treaty in five The Prime Minister: We must recognise that the years’ time. Will the Prime Minister promise to veto Government put £45 billion into the Royal Bank of that, or does he not expect to be here in five years’ time? Scotland on behalf of the country. That is £2,500 for every working family in the country. The most important The Prime Minister: The treaty says very clearly that thing is that we get that money back. We need RBS to it can be incorporated only with the permission of all return to health. It has to deal with its bad loans and the 27 member states of the European Union, and our trouble that it got into, and it has to grow the rest of its position on that has not changed. business. We will then be in a position to return to people the money that they put into the bank. That is Q12. [98326] Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): what matters most. Will the Prime Minister join me, along with the thousands of families with missing loved ones, Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con): May I offer my including the family of missing York woman Claudia sympathies to the families and friends of the six soldiers Lawrence, in supporting the sensible recommendations who have been killed, five of whom served in 3rd Battalion in the Justice Committee’s report into missing people’s the Yorkshire Regiment, the Duke of Wellington’s, with rights and the presumption of death? which I had the privilege to serve? I recognise and support the vital role that our troops are endeavouring The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend raises an important to undertake, but we need to bring them back in 2015. I issue. I pay tribute to Peter Lawrence and his support ask the Prime Minister to ensure that we do everything for the Missing People campaign. The Justice Committee that we can to support the families of those who have has produced an important report on this issue. We been lost. acknowledge that the current law is complicated. I recognise all the emotional and practical difficulties The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend speaks with faced by those whose loved ones are missing. We are considerable experience, because of his service in our going to consider the recommendations very carefully, armed forces. It is important that we have the date for and perhaps I will write to my hon. Friend when we our troops coming home from Afghanistan, which I set. come up with the answer. We will not be there in a combat role and will not be there in anything like the current numbers by the end of Q13. [98327] Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): If 2014. It is also important to ensure that, between now the Prime Minister manages to persuade his Chancellor and then, our troops have all the equipment that they to remove some of the anomalies in his child benefit need to make them as safe as possible. I pay tribute to policy to help people earning over £43,000 a year, will the previous Government, who started putting extra he then take action to help the couples on the minimum money into vehicles in 2006. Since then, we have spent wage who are set to lose £3,000 from April? about £2 billion on better-protected vehicles and an The Prime Minister: I think that we dealt with that additional £160 million on counter-IED equipment. He earlier. Quite apart from the point about the unfairness is right that we need to do more for the families of our of a single person having to work 16 hours, we are armed forces at home. That is what the military covenant making a long-term reform with universal credit, which process and the Cabinet Committee, which I chaired for will mean that everyone is always better off in work, no the first meeting, are all about. matter how many hours they work. Labour had 13 years to put that in place; we will have it done in 18 Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): months. Using Applied Language Solutions was supposed to save West Midlands police £750,000 a year, and yet last Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): On week we heard that the shortage of translators leaves Saturday, 2,000 of us marched through Kendal to present the police unable to quiz suspects for weeks. Is that the a petition of 11,000 people calling for radiotherapy kind of service we can expect when our police forces services at Westmorland general hospital in Kendal. tender out services to private security companies? Will my right hon. Friend meet me, the commissioners and cancer campaigners to ensure that we bring cancer The Prime Minister: I do not think that there is treatment to Kendal, so that local lives can be made anything wrong with the police getting back-office functions longer and people’s journeys shorter? carried out by private sector organisations. Indeed, 847 Oral Answers7 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 848 when the shadow policing Minister was asked about on the competitiveness of the City? I invite my right that at the Select Committee on Home Affairs, he said hon. Friend to block the fiscal union treaty by making that he was quite relaxed about it. I think that that is an application to the European Court of Justice that it right. I am delighted that the hon. Lady is considering is illegal, until we get the City safeguards that he was whether to become a police and crime commissioner. demanding in December. That will be an excellent way of calling the police to account, and I hope that many other hon. Members will The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is entirely right consider it as a career change. to raise the case of the Prudential, because it is an example of ill-thought-out EU legislation endangering Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): a great British business, which should have its headquarters Will my right hon. Friend do all that he can to support here in the UK. I recognise the importance of this Mayor Boris Johnson in London, who is pleading with matter. We are working extremely hard at the European the Pru, our biggest insurer, not to leave the City of level and with the Prudential to deal with it. I know that London because of the attack by the European Union we have the full support of Boris Johnson in doing that. 849 7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 850

Diamond Jubilee seemingly insoluble ceremonial problem by walking up to the greeting line, hand outstretched, with the words, “My lord lieutenant appears to be having difficulty in 12.34 pm getting out of the car, so I’d better introduce myself. I’m The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): I beg to the Queen.” move, That human connection is a hallmark of the Queen’s That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty on the reign. Over 60 years, according to one royal biographer, occasion of the Sixtieth Anniversary of Her Accession to the she has met 4 million people in person, which is equivalent Throne. to the entire population of New Zealand. At garden That the said Address be presented to Her Majesty by the parties alone, she has invited some 2 million people to whole House. tea. She is, of course, Queen of 16 countries, and has On her first address to the nation as Queen, Her surely travelled more widely than any other Head of Majesty pledged that throughout all her life, and with State in history. As she herself has been heard to say—it all her heart, she would strive to be worthy of the is a lesson, perhaps for all of us in this House—“I have people’s trust: this she has achieved beyond question. to be seen to be believed.”All this has given her remarkable The nation holds her in its heart, not just as the figurehead insight. Like her previous 11 Prime Ministers, I have of an institution but as an individual who has served been struck by Her Majesty’s perspective on world this country with unerring grace, dignity and decency. events, and like my predecessors I am truly grateful for The reign of Queen Elizabeth has been one of the way she handles our national interests. unparalleled change, from rationing through to the jet Last year’s visit to Ireland was a lesson in statecraft. age, to the space age, to the digital age. At her first It showed once again that the Queen can extend the investiture as Queen, the very first decoration she presented hand of friendship like no other. She was the first was a Victoria Cross for heroism in the Korean war. monarch to visit China, the first to visit Russia and the Since then, members of the armed forces—her armed first to pay a state visit to the Vatican, and her trip to forces—have been in action all over the world, from post-apartheid South Africa was a statement that resounded Aden to the Falklands, the Gulf, Iraq and Afghanistan. across continents. Around the world, dictatorships have died and democracies And, of course, there is the Commonwealth. It is have been born, and across the old British empire a doubtful whether that great alliance would ever have vibrant Commonwealth of nations has expanded and thrived without the dedication of Her Majesty. When flourished. the Queen became head of the Commonwealth in 1952, Throughout this extraordinary change, the longest-lived it had eight members; today it has 54. No one has done monarch in our history has remained resolutely unchanged more to promote this unique family of nations spanning in her commitment and studious in her duties. It does every continent, all the main religions and nearly a third not matter whether it is something we suspect she of the world’s population. In all her realms, from Tuvalu enjoys, such as the highland games at Braemar, or to Barbados, from Papua New Guinea to St Vincent things we suspect she might be less keen on, such as and the Grenadines, from Britain to Jamaica, she is spending new year’s eve in the millennium dome, she loved because she is a Queen of everyone—for each of never, ever falters. She has always done her duty, and us and for all of us. that stability is essential for our national life. The diamond jubilee gives us the chance to show our While the sands of culture shift and the tides of gratitude. By the time she opens the Olympics, the politics ebb and flow, Her Majesty has been a permanent Queen’s jubilee tour will have taken her and Prince anchor, bracing Britain against the storms, grounding Philip to every part of the United Kingdom. In June, us in certainty. Crucially, simultaneously, she has moved London will see a huge pop concert, a great procession the monarchy forward. It has been said that the art of and the largest gathering on the Thames for more than progress is to preserve order amid change and change three centuries: barges and cutters, narrow boats and amid order, and in this the Queen is unparalleled. She motor boats, square riggers, naval vessels, the little ships has never shut the door on the future; instead, she has of Dunkirk—all will be there to pay tribute to our led the way through it, ushering in the television cameras, magnificent Queen. opening up the royal collection and the palaces and “Diamond” is the appropriate epithet for this jubilee. hosting receptions and award ceremonies for every area For 60 years, Her Majesty has been a point of light in of public life. It is easy now to take these things for our national life—brilliant, enduring and resilient. For granted, but we should remember that they were her that, she has the respect of the House and the enduring initiatives. She was broadcasting to the nation every affection of all her people. Christmas day 30 years before we let cameras into this House. 12.40 pm In doing those things, the Queen ended a 1,000 year distance that existed between British monarchs and Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): May I their people. Indeed, while much of her life has been second the motion and associate myself and my party governed by tradition and protocol, the Queen has entirely with the sentiments that the Prime Minister has always taken a thoroughly pragmatic view of such just expressed? matters. On arriving at one engagement in Scotland, As the Prime Minister has so accurately described, she noticed that the local lord lieutenant was having Her Majesty the Queen has dedicated herself tirelessly considerable trouble extracting both himself and his and constantly to the people of our country and the sword from the official car in order to perform the Commonwealth for 60 years. Her Majesty has led an introductions. While embarrassed civic dignitaries extraordinary life of service, which sets an example to cleared their throats, the Queen cut straight through the us all. 851 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 852

Truly remarkable though her reign has been, it is respect and genuine affection wherever she travels in the striking that it is in keeping with the reputation and world. In respect for that spirit, we all come together to spirit of the young Princess Elizabeth before she ascended celebrate in this, the year of her diamond jubilee. the throne. During the second world war, her work with the Auxiliary Territorial Service gave inspiration and Several hon. Members rose— hope to millions, especially young women desperate to play their part while their loved ones were fighting at Mr Speaker: Order. I call Sir Peter Tapsell, the Father the front. of the House. Almost 65 years ago, as the House marked Her Majesty’s wedding to the Duke of Edinburgh, Clement 12.44 pm Attlee observed that Princess Elizabeth was already Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): At celebrated across the globe for her “unerring graciousness the time of the last diamond jubilee, the Father of the and understanding”. His words echo down the years. House was Charles Villiers. He had started his distinguished We have learnt so much more about Her Majesty: political career in the Parliament of King William IV, selfless, tireless in duty, unflinching in service, unerring had sat in this House continuously for 63 years, and was in her commitment to the people of Britain, stoical in aged 95. By comparison with him, I am a mere the face of personal loss, and proud, as the Prime parliamentary debutante. Minister said, of the extraordinary reach of the monarchy However, I vividly remember the fireworks that celebrated and its values to the Commonwealth. the silver jubilee of Her Majesty’s grandfather, King With Prince Philip at her side, she has shown the George V, in 1935. The hit tune of the time was “The most extraordinary dedication to duty. When we tell Daring YoungMan on the Flying Trapeze”, a prophetically each other her remarkable story, we speak, too, of the accurate description of Prince William today. timeless characteristics of our country and all the people Shortly before the debate on the Loyal Address in who have served us. 1897, Villiers sent Queen Victoria his personal gift as Her Majesty’s life reminds us of the true value of Father of the House of a parasol. I have presumed to service. Her reign is a golden thread that links people follow his example. His parasol was dressed in Chantilly within and across the generations. For the generation lace. Mine has not been dressed in French lace; it has that emerged from the war, the coronation provided the been dressed in Nottingham lace, from the city that first opportunity to come together in celebration. There was sent me to this place 53 years ago. often only one house with a television set on a street, For my generation, the abiding memory of our Queen and people crowded round to watch, sharing in community is her stunning beauty when she came to the throne. with one another. There is nothing more inspiriting in the whole world For our generation growing up, the event was the than a beautiful woman. silver jubilee in 1977. I remember being in Hyde park as The bedrock of her success has been the constitution— a seven-year-old as part of those celebrations. Then not our constitution but hers, because she has always came the golden jubilee on those glorious summer days had the most astonishing stamina. In 1953, accompanied in 2002. This year in June, it will be the next generation’s as always by the indomitable Duke of Edinburgh, she turn to share in the excitement. travelled 53,000 miles. In 1977, the year of her silver In these moments, we are reminded that we are far jubilee, she travelled 56,000 miles. I once asked a courtier more than just disparate individuals and communities: how she did it, to which I received the characteristic we are a nation with a shared sense of purpose and reply: “By not eating salads, shellfish and water melon integrity. When we celebrated the golden jubilee, it while travelling.” fittingly became not only a celebration of the Queen’s The Queen’s great-great-grandmother was Empress reign, but of the very best features of our country. of India at a time when one quarter of the globe was As the Prime Minister said, in her 60 years the Queen painted red. She has lived through years of worldwide has witnessed an astonishing array of changes throughout and often revolutionary change. In the single year of our society. Some have brought huge improvements to 1960, 16 African countries achieved independence and our lives; others have been more challenging. became sovereign member states of the United Nations. On one occasion, I attended a meeting of the Privy What was to be the role of the Crown in this new world? Council shortly after Buckingham palace had shown its Her Majesty saw the challenge and seized the opportunity. commitment to fighting climate change by adopting She made the monarchy mobile. In the second year of energy-saving light bulbs. I believe that I was the Minister her reign, she delivered her Christmas message to Britain responsible. Unfortunately, the transition had not been and the Commonwealth from New Zealand. entirely smooth because the light was pretty dim—in Although always impeccably attentive to her duties in fact, it was almost dark. the United Kingdom, she threw herself, with wholehearted As Her Majesty valiantly struggled through the gloom energy and commitment, into a new world role as the to read the names of the Bills being passed, she caught Head of the Commonwealth. She has visited nearly my eye fixedly and remarked on the impact of “these every member of it, many of them tens of times, from new bulbs”. As Secretary of State for Energy and the north Atlantic to the south Pacific. Since her visit to Climate Change, I confessed my responsibility, but I am Tuvalu in the south Pacific, sea levels around that pleased to say that she broke into a smile. Her reaction threatened island have actually fallen. How jealous showed once again her great capacity to put people at King Canute must be! ease, no matter what the circumstances. Her Majesty has presided over 18 Commonwealth Whatever she has been confronted with, Her Majesty Heads of Government meetings. These have not always the Queen has responded with genuine spirit. That been plain sailing. In 1979, the choice of Lusaka as a spirit means that the Queen is received with reverence, venue was a matter of controversy.Zambia was surrounded 853 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 854

[Sir Peter Tapsell] was able to observe the profound seriousness with which the Queen treats her duties as Head of our established at the time by warring countries—Mozambique, Southern Church, as well as her encyclopaedic knowledge of the Rhodesia and Angola—and some thought it dangerous parishes and personalities of the Anglican communion. or politically unwise for her to go. Her Majesty made it As Member of Parliament for Blackburn for the past publicly clear that whoever did or did not go, she was 33 years, I have seen the excitement and, more importantly, determined to be there. The Lusaka conference was a the sense of recognition that visits by Her Majesty and great success. It was even widely reported that Her other members of the royal family have brought to the Majesty’s only female Prime Minister in Britain had people of my area, as they have to every constituency much enjoyed her foxtrot with Kenneth Kaunda. and every ethnic background and religion. These are Of a reign spanning nine Prime Ministers and but a handful of examples of the extraordinary, exemplary 12 Presidents of the United States, and notwithstanding way in which Her Majesty has led our nation over the her triumph among us here at home, I believe that past 60 years. future historians will record that the impetus and character Of the three most recent of the Queen’s dozen Prime that she has uniquely given to the Commonwealth will Ministers, one was in nappies and two were not born be remembered as her greatest achievement. How fortunate when she acceded to the throne in February 1952. I we have been to be reigned over for 60 years by a lady of guess that I am one of a diminishing band of Members such poise, grace and beauty—the exemplary daughter who can recall that day and period. Food and clothes of an enchanting mother. rationing were still in operation and, much more importantly I conclude by repeating the exquisite words of a poet for a six-year-old, so was sweet rationing. There was an and parliamentarian composed in honour of a queen of acute housing shortage. Vast areas of our great towns hearts of an earlier era—words that are absolutely true and cities were still bombed wastelands, Britain was of our own beloved Queen: almost exclusively a white society and, at primary school, “Tell me, if she were not designed I can still recall, in the second year of infant school, the The eclipse and glory of her kind”. map of the world that our teacher had permanently fixed on the wall and to which he pointed with great 12.52 pm regularity. It showed a quarter of the world’s land mass Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): It is a great honour painted pink to signify the British empire. to speak in this debate and particularly to follow the Six decades on, the world is a very different place, right hon. Member for Louth and Horncastle (Sir Peter and so is the United Kingdom. We are now a heterogeneous Tapsell), the Father of the House. I hope, Mr Speaker, society, with people from many religious and ethnic that you, the Prime Minister and the Leader of the backgrounds proud to call themselves British. The empire Opposition, having listened with care to the address by has gone, to be replaced by the Commonwealth. The the Father of the House, will have it in mind that the rate of social, industrial and technological change has next diamond jubilee to be organised should be the been breathtaking. But through all this change, there one to celebrate his 60th year in the House—such has has been the Queen—constant, reassuring, providing a he become a national treasure and an entertainment to sense of security and stability in an uncertain world, us all. yet, remarkably, remaining in touch. I am delighted to Of the many privileges that go with the best job in support the Prime Minister’s motion. the British Cabinet—that of Foreign Secretary—the greatest is that the whole office is expected to accompany 12.57 pm Her Majesty the Queen on state visits abroad. During my five years as Foreign Secretary, I went with Her Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): It is a great Majesty to, among other places, Germany, France, Malta honour to join my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, and Nigeria. Those visits gave me the opportunity to the Leader of the Opposition and other colleagues in witness at close hand the extraordinary preparation, the House’s tribute to Her Majesty the Queen on the dedication, commitment and time that Her Majesty presentation of an Humble Address. and Prince Philip devoted to these sometimes very On the night of Monday 4 April 1955, on the eve of difficult public engagements. The pace that the Queen his resignation as Prime Minister, my kinsman Sir Winston and the Prince set for these visits would have tired Churchill gave a dinner at No. 10 Downing street for the somebody half their age. Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh. It was attended by In Nigeria, the arrangements for the day-to-day Churchill’s closest political and military colleagues and engagements showed a little flexibility—to be delicate friends, and by members of his private office and his about the matter—and Her Majesty and Prince Philip family. The Prime Minister, in proposing the Queen’s had to accommodate that flexibility. She had taken part health, said this: in one engagement at which I thought she did stunningly “I propose a health to Your Majesty which I used to drink in well. I said to her afterwards, “Ma’am, if I may say so, the days when I was a young Officer in the 4th Hussars in the that showed extraordinary professionalism.” There was reign of YourMajesty’s great, great grandmother, Queen Victoria”. a pause. She looked at me and said, with a benign He ended with the following words: motherly smile, “Foreign Secretary, it should have been “And I drink to the wise and kindly way of life of which Your professional. I’ve been doing this for long enough.” Majesty is the young and gleaming champion”. As Home Secretary and then Lord Chancellor, I had I am sure that this whole House will agree that Her a rather less public duty—that of administering the Majesty the Queen has, throughout her long reign, oath of homage, which all new bishops of the Church indeed been a gleaming champion for her country and of England have to make to the sovereign, and have for the Commonwealth. Crowned in the same abbey done since the age of Henry VIII. Through that prism, I church as William the Conqueror, at the same age—26—as 855 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 856 the first Queen Elizabeth 400 years earlier, she embodies 1.4 pm all the best qualities and the continuity that are so Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): I rise to important to our country and its splendid, independent support the motion in the name of the Prime Minister people. This diamond jubilee will thus be an occasion and to associate myself with the comments that hon. for the nation to thank the Queen, who has served us so and right hon. Members have made with great eloquence professionally, so loyally and so conscientiously through so far. these extraordinary 60 years of some of the most tumultuous social, economic and technological change While I have the indulgence of the House, I want that Britain has ever seen. briefly to take only a few moments to report that the The Queen brings to our national life an experience city of Leicester—and indeed, my constituency—is and knowledge of politics and events all around the immensely proud, delighted, excited and honoured to world which is truly unrivalled by any other person in be hosting Her Majesty the Queen, His Royal Highness the land. Throughout her long reign, she has displayed the Duke of Edinburgh and Her Royal Highness the great, good judgment, tolerance and absolute political Duchess of Cambridge tomorrow, for the start of the neutrality at all times. When she ascended to the throne, diamond jubilee tour. Tomorrow, Her Majesty will be her first Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, was of an visiting one of the country’s most dynamic universities—De age to have charged with the 21st Lancers at the battle Montfort, in the city of Leicester. Our cathedral will be of Omdurman in 1898, while her present Prime Minister hosting the Queen—I believe for her first visit—for a was not even born in 1952. Such is the scale and breadth service led by the Bishop of Leicester, and our directly of the life that she has so triumphantly lived through. elected mayor, Sir Peter Soulsby, will welcome Her Majesty to the iconic clock tower in our city centre. The Queen is a source of powerful influence for this country throughout the world, as my right hon. Friend As well as celebrating Her Majesty’s diamond jubilee, the Prime Minister said. She is the Queen of 16 countries, tomorrow is also about celebrating the city of Leicester including Canada, Australia and New Zealand, and the and the thousands of Leicester people, of all backgrounds, Head of the Commonwealth, an organisation that includes who make our city the strong, diverse and vibrant place more than a quarter of the earth’s population. She thus it is today. Throughout the last 60 years, families have brings a vital and often unrecognised addition to our come from all parts of the Commonwealth and all parts efforts and our influence overseas. We in this House in of the world to make Leicester their home. Under Her particular should recognise this as an irreplaceable national Majesty’s reign, Leicester and Britain have become asset of the first importance. more diverse, and stronger, too. Although we are diverse, Every country needs someone who can represent the we are united as a city. Tomorrow, people from Leicester, whole nation. It may seem primitive—and indeed it is—but of all backgrounds, all communities and all faiths, will if nationhood is to mean anything, it has to have a welcome their Queen—their Head of State. Perhaps focus. In our case, for 60 years that focus has been, and they will welcome her in the varied dialects spoken in remains, the Queen. Nations do have values, and they our city: “A Salaam O Alikum”, perhaps; “Namaste”, should be proud of them and willing to express that perhaps; “Sat sri akaal”, perhaps; or, more simply, pride. That is what we are able to do with our monarchy perhaps the more familiar “Welcome to Leicester, your and our Queen, and what we will do this year. Majesty.” The Queen, blessed with a happy marriage to a 1.7 pm remarkable consort who has done so much to support her does a job that demands tremendous physical and Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): The preamble mental toughness and energy. Quite apart from her still to every Act of Parliament that has received Royal extensive public engagements, her work follows her Assent in the last 60 years refers to the fact that it is wherever she goes, and always has done. Her life has enacted by truly been one of selfless duty. Yetsadly, there is probably “the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty”, no day when she will not read something about her or as well as by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and by her family in the media or see something on television the Commons, in Parliament assembled. That is indeed that is untrue, cruel or just plain silly. fitting terminology, in that there has been a real excellence We are indeed blessed to have in the Queen someone in Her Majesty the Queen’s devotion, integrity, honour, who is truly a remarkable example of dedication, efficiency service and duty to her people over the past 60 years. and common sense, with a tremendously good judgment The Queen serves as an indefatigable unifying influence of people and—last, but by no means least—an excellent in an increasingly diverse nation and a Commonwealth sense of humour. Those attributes, added to a perfectly of Nations composed of a plethora of countries with wondrous dislike of pomposity and vanity, and an different languages, cultures, religions and forms of absolute inability to pretend to be anything other than government. herself, make the Queen what she is: arguably the most respected and admired—indeed, loved—public figure Her Majesty’s commitment and public service are in the world. without parallel. When she was on a tour of Africa at the age of 21, the then Princess Elizabeth declared that I conclude as I started, with Churchill on the Queen. her Broadcasting to the nation on 7 February 1952, on the death of King George VI, he ended with these words: “whole life, whether it be long or short, would be dedicated to the service” “I, whose youth was passed in the august, unchallenged and tranquil glories of the Victorian Era, may well feel a thrill in of her people. And it has been. I venture to suggest that invoking, once more, the prayer and the Anthem ‘God Save the Queen Elizabeth’s ancestors would be proud of her—her Queen’.” late father particularly so—and that her heirs and successors And, 60 years on, so do we all, Mr Speaker—with all will be driven to follow her example. The Queen is a our hearts. model sovereign, who has performed her demanding 857 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 858

[Michael Ellis] One thing is absolutely certain: over those 60 years, I have managed to achieve the dishonour of making constitutional functions with extraordinarily consistent mistakes in front of the Queen on a number of occasions. good judgment. She has touched millions of lives through The first was not, in fact, in front of Her Majesty. It her innumerable visits. She inspires utter devotion from involved a little boy, coming up to the age of six, in a her regiments and the Church of which she is supreme school for the blind, when we were celebrating the governor. In the Commonwealth, the Queen has made coronation. Elgar was blaring out from a loudspeaker, an enduring contribution to the lives of millions of her and I rushed across the playground only to smash into a people around the world. By her side throughout this little four-year-old girl, spilling lemonade all over her period of change has been His Royal Highness the skirt and blouse, which resulted in her bursting into Duke of Edinburgh, who has been in her heart and floods of tears. That was the first, but not the last, mind since she was 13 years of age. occasion on which I have made people cry over the past In 1977, for the silver jubilee, and in 2002, for the 60 years. golden jubilee, peers and Members of Parliament Many moons ago, as leader of Sheffield, I tasted the contributed to a gift on the parliamentary estate to be tea before Her Majesty arrived and described it as enjoyed by hundreds of thousands of visitors. Late in “absolutely disgusting”. I had it changed, only to discover 2010, in keeping with that tradition, I established an that I had set aside her favourite brew. On another all-party group. With the help of the then Serjeant at occasion when I was leader of Sheffield, I made the Arms of this House, Jill Pay, the Gentleman Usher of mistake of declining Her Majesty’s help at lunch, when the Black Rod, Lieutenant-General David Leakey, and she offered to help me with a Barnsley chop. Had I the conservation architect of the estate, Adam Watrobski, accepted her help, I would have been spared the I was soon able to approach you, Mr Speaker, and the embarrassment of being told, at the end of the meal, then Lord Speaker, Baroness Hayman, in order to seek, that she was quite used to cutting up the meat for the through your good offices, a request to any Member of corgis. this House or the other place who wished to contribute, Dogs are a feature of Her Majesty’s life, and I could to make such private donation as they saw fit to a not let this occasion go by without recalling how much stained glass depiction of the royal arms, to be placed in dogs’ instincts affect us, in the political arena as well as the north window of Westminster Hall. After renovations in their capacity as pets and social companions. My have been completed in the coming months, that window right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) will show the first royal arms to be displayed in the will remember our hosting an official visit by President north window since the time of King Henry VIII. They Putin, in his first incarnation as President of the Russian will be opposite the arms of His late Majesty, King Federation. As the arms were presented, my then dog, George VI, the Queen’s father. Sadie, uttered a deep growl from her chest which developed No public funds whatever have been used for the into a bark. That was obviously a precursor to the manufacture of the stained glass window, or for its political change that we have seen in the Russian Federation. monumental display case or its forthcoming installation. My right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition That is thanks to the generosity of hundreds of referred to the Queen’s ability to put people at their parliamentarians from all sides in both Houses who, in ease. Perhaps I should mention the way in which she put response to your letter, Mr Speaker, have donated a me at my ease when I made another blunder. It was total of £98,396 for this gift, which will allow a modest when I was being inducted as a member of the Privy surplus to be remitted to the Queen Elizabeth Diamond Council in 1997. My right hon. Friend the Member for Jubilee Trust charity. That generosity is a manifestation Blackburn will recall that he had set me in the right of the enormous respect and profound gratitude felt by direction to kneel on the cushion, but I missed it slightly. this Parliament for the selfless and uninterrupted service I was put right, and the Queen gently assured me that I of our beloved sovereign. God save the Queen. did actually brush her hand with my lips, rather than her elbow with my mouth, which was the direction in 1.11 pm which I had been heading. Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and These have been 60 years of a Queen for her people Hillsborough) (Lab): In supporting the motion, I know here and in the Commonwealth. She has been a Queen that I speak on behalf of the bulk of the people in my who has touched the hearts of those of all classes, beloved city of Sheffield in offering my congratulations distinctions, races, ethnicities and religions. We have and reflecting on the respect and affection in which Her had a Queen who has been able to hold our nation Majesty has been held over the past 60 years. Reference together, and I hope that her life will be long and that, has been made to the enormity of the change that has in the years to come, she will be able to hold the United taken place in that time. I was reminded, listening to the Kingdom together in the way that many of us wish for. radio this morning, that the first edition of the New Musical Express, published 60 years ago, featured Paul 1.16 pm Robeson. I do not know what Her Majesty will make of this year’s Eurovision song contest, but some things Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) never really change. Some changes have been very much (LD): It is a privilege and a pleasure to support the for the better, in regard to tackling discrimination and Prime Minister in his motion to send an Address to gross inequality, and creating a care across the world the Queen on the occasion of her diamond jubilee. Like that did not exist 60 years ago. Some of them have the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and illustrated a loss, however, including the loss of the Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett), and everyone else in the mutuality and reciprocity that were a feature of many House and beyond who have met her on a one-to-one of our communities 60 years ago. basis, I have been daunted by the prospect as well as 859 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 860 humbled by the experience. That is not surprising, given beyond. She has also been particular in making sure the record that she has achieved. She is not only the that she has supported and encouraged people of all second-longest serving monarch we have ever had on faiths and backgrounds. these islands, but the second-longest serving Head of People have paid many tributes in this place on State in the world at the moment. I suppose if this were occasions during the 60 years. They have highlighted a primary school, I would offer a prize to anyone who the Queen’s unassuming virtues and her faultless example. could tell me who the longest serving Head of State is— In fact, she has stood like a rock in a sea of troubles, she has lived out the promises made at her accession and Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): Who is it? coronation and she has exemplified dignity, experience, wisdom and, above all, her incomparable sense of duty. Simon Hughes: I will tell you later. As we say our grateful thank you to a Queen who has Picking up on the comments made by the Father of been our monarch for 60 years, it is also fair to say that the House, I find it extraordinary that we have a monarch she has also been our servant—the people’s servant—for who has met nearly a quarter of all the Presidents of the 60 years. She has been a servant monarch, which is what United States throughout its history, and who has known she said she would be when she took the coronation a fifth of all British Prime Ministers. Those are oath. extraordinary records. Let me finish with two short personal comments. I In paying tribute to the Queen, I should also like to am a member of the Christian Church. There are pay tribute to Prince Philip, who has stood alongside people in this Parliament of many faiths and of none. her for every month of those 60 years, and more. Speaking as someone of faith, may I say on behalf of Unlike the Father of the House, I am not old enough those who have faith in general and of Christians in to remember the accession or the coronation, although particular that when the Queen has expressed her views I must be honest and tell the House that I was just alive about the truths and good news of the Christian gospel, at the time, and I am sure that my family were celebrating. as she did in her Christmas broadcast last year, she has Other events have been significant throughout the Queen’s done so more honestly, more simply and more clearly life. When she has visited our communities, those visits than probably any other Christian leader in the world? have been really important. There have been conventional People of all faiths should be thankful for that. She has events, such as her visit to Llandaff cathedral when I absolutely got it right in expressing the faith in which was a little boy. It had been restored after sustaining she so clearly believes. bomb damage during the war. There have been conventional I am privileged to be the MP whose constituency events relating to past jubilees. She came to the King’s includes the Old Kent road. The Prime Minister alluded Stairs gardens in Bermondsey, by Edward III’s manor to a relevant description earlier. We regularly call house, to mark her silver jubilee, for example. There people—we are not the only people to do so—“diamond have also been some esoteric events. She came to an geezers”. I am not sure that the Queen would be overly event near London Bridge a few years ago, in which she keen on the second part of the description, but in the unveiled a stone in honour of a native American Indian vernacular of Bermondsey, the Old Kent road and who was buried there—a fact that came as a surprise to everywhere else: she is a diamond; she has been a us all. It was a slightly unexpected mixture, seeing the diamond; and for the many more years we hope she Queen next to a red Indian chief somewhere near reigns, she will go on being a diamond. On behalf of all London Bridge station. my colleagues—and so say all of us. As the Prime Minister indicated, the Queen has certainly also gone beyond the call of duty on many occasions. 1.22 pm The example that most comes to mind is indeed the Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): On behalf of blessed millennium eve celebrations at the dome. I think my right hon. and hon. Friends, it is a great privilege that she was reassured by stopping off at Southwark and pleasure to endorse and to be associated with the cathedral first, which she enjoyed and found highly statements of the Prime Minister and of other right appropriate. That visit probably also gave her the spiritual hon. and hon. Members in support of this motion. For strength and courage to go on to the events that straddled most of us and for most of the country, Queen Elizabeth midnight. II is the only monarch we have ever known. Only one People have rightly paid tribute to the Queen’s other monarch, Queen Victoria, has reached this international as well as national service. It is extraordinary tremendous milestone. It is not just the length of service that she is Queen of 16 countries, and of about 130 million that has been so impressive, but the manner in which people around the world. She is Queen of the second-largest Her Majesty has served the people of this country. country in the world—Canada—as well as of Tuvalu, Dedication, commitment, judgment and sacrifice are a country of only 10,000 people. It is absolutely words that spring to mind when we think of the Queen’s consistent with her service that the trust set up to mark service to our country and to the Commonwealth over the jubilee is intended to serve the poorest peoples of the course of her entire life. the Commonwealth—exactly the sort of mission she At 21 years of age, Her Majesty pledged that has always supported herself. “my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your The Queen has been pre-eminent in making sure that service.” people in the public service, and particularly those in That promise has been well and truly fulfilled. During military service, have been honoured and supported by Her Majesty’s reign, she has of course been supported her. We thank her for that, because they do the bravest superbly by His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, and most difficult of jobs. She has also always gone out who has obviously been a great source of strength to of her way to support those in voluntary service, Her Majesty, as well as serving our country in his own commending that non-paid activity in our country and inimitable right. 861 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 862

[Mr Nigel Dodds] tapped me on the shoulder. She then made comments to me, which made it clear that she had taken the trouble We from Northern Ireland appreciate deeply the to find out something about me. What I found even commitment that the Queen has shown to our part of more encouraging and remarkable was that as each the United Kingdom over the course of her reign. Her person being honoured came before her—there were a Majesty has visited Northern Ireland on some 15 official very large number—she had something to say to each visits over the last 60 years. She has travelled even one of them. It struck me as impressive that she went to during very difficult and dangerous periods when her all that trouble to make the day memorable for the visits brought with them severe risks to her personal people attending at Buckingham palace. security. I well recall one particular visit when, during I want to pay tribute to the Duke of Edinburgh, too. I very dark and troubled days indeed, I had the great have been involved in a number of events with His honour as lord mayor of the great city of Belfast of Royal Highness. I particularly remember meeting His welcoming her to the city. Her intense concern for and Royal Highness at Farnborough air show at the time interest in the welfare of all of the people of Belfast and when I was shepherding through legislation to nationalise Northern Ireland was evident. People in our Province the aircraft industry and to create British Aerospace. have always enjoyed visits by the Queen and members He had some extremely forthright comments and pieces of the royal family. We look forward eagerly to Her of advice to offer about how British Aerospace should Majesty’s visit later this year, so that once again we can be nationalised. I took due account of what he said show our respect and affection for her and the royal when we carried the legislation through Parliament. household. While there are Presidents in countries all over the On the first occasion that Her Majesty visited Northern world, this country has what some might regard as an Ireland as Queen in 1953, she spoke to the Northern anomaly, whereby the Head of State is an hereditary Ireland House of Commons, saying: monarch. The greatest achievement of Her Majesty is “I assure you that I will always strive to repay your loyalty and that she has proved by the way in which she has presided devotion with my steadfast service to you.” over this country for 60 years that hereditary monarchy The then Speaker responded by saying: provides a better basis for genuine democracy than any “It is our heartfelt prayer that Your Majesty may be blessed of the presidencies we see in different parts of the with health and strength, long to reign over us.” world. Her impartiality and knowledgability have As we give thanks to almighty God today for the life demonstrated to all of us that we, who have the best and service of Her Majesty, we affirm that this continues democracy in the world—despite occasional electoral to be our sincere prayer today. God save the Queen. aberrations—owe that democracy, in which all of us are free, to Her Majesty. What she has done in making this 1.25 pm United Kingdom a permanent democracy, a democracy Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): As the Member of that is impregnable, is perhaps the greatest of her many Parliament for Windsor, I wholeheartedly associate myself achievements. with the words of the Prime Minister and of other right hon. and hon. Members. During 60 years of service, Several hon. Members rose— there have been 60 years of change, but one thing has not changed and has remained constant—Her Majesty’s Mr Speaker: I call Mr Steve Brine. dedication and sense of duty towards our country and Mr Brine was on the list of those wishing to speak, its people. On behalf of the people of Windsor, I wish but apparently he does not wish to do so, so I call Mary to express my thanks and my best wishes to Her Majesty Macleod. and the royal family. She is as welcome in her home in Windsor as she is throughout the United Kingdom and 1.30 pm the Commonwealth. Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): I am honoured to have the opportunity to contribute a few 1.26 pm words to this humble Address to Her Majesty on the Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): I 60th anniversary of her accession to the throne. I strongly join my fellow former member of Oxford University support the words of my right hon. Friend the Prime Labour club, the Father of the House, in paying tribute Minister, who gave a powerful and poignant summary to Her Majesty. What has impressed me about her, of what the Queen has done for this country. among many other noble attributes, is her knowledgeability When Queen Elizabeth II became our monarch in and her imperturbality. February 1952, the United Kingdom was a pretty austere I attended a meeting of the Privy Council, at which place. It was only seven years after the end of the Her Majesty had the responsibility to prick sheriffs. She second world war, and tea rationing was still in place. held an object that looks like a large knitting needle and The Queen was faced with a crisis almost immediately in front a parchment roll, not dissimilar to another kind when the great smog of London killed about 12,000 of roll, was unrolled before her. As the official read out people in December 1952, an event that shocked the the names, the Queen leaned forward and stabbed the world into starting the environmental movement. In her roll. On one occasion when a name was read out, Her first Christmas message, aged just 26, she called on her Majesty said, “But he’s dead,” to which the official’s people to response was, “Yes, Your Majesty, but if you will prick “set out to build a truer knowledge of ourselves and our fellowmen, it, I will explain later”. to work for tolerance and understanding among the nations and Her Majesty goes to enormous pains to obtain to use the tremendous forces of science and learning for the information in order to carry out her duties. When I betterment of man’s lot upon this earth.” attended the investiture at Buckingham palace, the Queen Those are wise words even today, as they were then. 863 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 864

As others have already pointed out, the Queen has His Royal Highness HRH the Duke of Cambridge, witnessed some incredible innovations during her 60-year Prince William, spoke recently of how his grandmother reign: the discovery of the structure of DNA in 1953, had the first man on the moon, the first and last supersonic “carved her own way completely” flights on Concorde, the first test-tube baby, the first and had managed to deal with the difficult balance personal computer and the world wide web, and the between public demands and private life. At the same introduction of the mobile phone. About 90% of people time, the Queen has not been afraid to listen to feedback in the United Kingdom now have mobile phones. from the general public, and to take action when it is Her Majesty has also been a constant presence during needed. She has personally overseen a radical modernisation many significant world events, such as Martin Luther of the royal household to reduce spending, support King’s “I have a dream” speech, the construction and female succession and embrace technology. Grants to fall of the Berlin wall, the recessions of the 1970s and the Queen and the royal household amount to less than 1990s, and the economic crisis of more recent years. She 70p per person in the country, a figure that is far has discussed the politics of the day with 12 Prime outweighed by their payments to the Treasury and the Ministers, from Sir Winston Churchill in 1951 to my benefits of tourism to the economy. The Queen has also right hon. Friend our current Prime Minister. That opened up the way for the royal household to share makes her probably the most experienced and well-briefed information. More than half a million people like her person in the country today. She has been at the heart of Facebook page, which I suspect is more than most what has been important to Britain, and the challenges Members of Parliament can say. that we have had to face as a country over these 60 years. In 1897, on the day of her own diamond jubilee Our world has changed more in the Queen’s lifetime celebrations, Queen Victoria wrote in her diary: than in those of any of her predecessors, but she has remained a calm presence at the centre, earning the “The streets were beautifully decorated, also the balconies of the houses, with flowers, flags and draperies of every hue.” respect and affection of everyone. I look forward to similar festivities throughout the I first met Her Majesty in May 1998 at Balmoral country during the celebration weekend in June, and castle, beside the beautiful banks of the River Dee, in encourage all local communities to hold the street parties my role as part of the royal household. On that first and other events that do so much to bring us together in evening, over dinner, I saw her wonderful humour, our own communities. Let us use this year of the heard story after story of experiences that she had been diamond jubilee and the Olympics and Paralympics to through, listened to the pipes being played by Pipe regain our sense of Britishness. Let us be proud to be Major Jim Motherwell, and talked about Scotland, British. Let us talk up British business and, most of all, which, of course, I consider to be an important part of our people: those who really make Britain what it is the United Kingdom. today, with the Queen at the helm. During my time as policy adviser, I saw at first hand I want to join everyone here today in paying the the unbelievable work load that Her Majesty undertook warmest possible tribute to Her Majesty the Queen. daily as part of her unstinting service to this country Her devotion to duty and her energy are inspirational, and the Commonwealth. Her devotion to duty is and we cannot thank her enough for all that she does unparalleled, and is reflected not just in her work load, for our country and the Commonwealth. If we all did a but in the number of engagements that she attends and fraction of what she does, our communities would the visitors to this country whom she entertains. The surely be stronger and better. Members of Parliament Queen is patron to more than 600 wide-ranging are elected to serve our constituents and to make a organisations that support children, sport, the arts, difference to our country. What better example of service health, science, animals, industry, education and the could they follow than that of Her Majesty the Queen? military, to name just a few. She takes a particular She has made an impression on so many people. She is a interest in all the armed forces in both the United role model and an inspiration, for me, for women, for Kingdom and the Commonwealth, and is, of course, citizens of the UK and the Commonwealth, and for the wife, mother and grandmother of individuals who generations to come. have served, or are currently serving, in the armed forces. In supporting the Prime Minister’s motion and thanking For me, the Queen represents the best of British the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh, I end my speech values—loyalty, respect, family, volunteering—and reminds with words from our national anthem: us of what it means to be British. In her diamond “God save our gracious Queen”. jubilee message, she asked us all to remember Long may she reign over us! “the power of togetherness and the convening strength of family, friendship and good neighbourliness.” 1.38 pm All those things are so important at the moment to everyone in the United Kingdom and throughout the Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to Commonwealth. contribute to the humble Address, and to support the The Queen even has the ability to transcend boundaries. motion. I flew in this morning after looking at emerging and As my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester South high-growth markets and businesses in Asia, and spoke (Jonathan Ashworth) told us earlier, tomorrow morning to an American gentleman who said to me enthusiastically, Her Majesty the Queen, His Royal Highness the Duke “We love her, and we feel that she is our Queen too.” of Edinburgh and Her Royal Highness the Duchess of When I pressed him to tell me why, he said, “She Cambridge will visit Leicester on the first stop of the embodies dignity, stability and grace.” I could not have diamond jubilee tour. That is a great honour for our agreed more. city. Under the Queen’s reign, Leicester has prospered 865 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 866

[Liz Kendall] Bill of mine, and thereby make it an Act of Parliament, and, of course, when I swore the oath to take office here and changed. We have welcomed people from throughout in Parliament for the first time. the United Kingdom, the Commonwealth and the rest I think it is fair to say that Her Majesty has also of the world. It is therefore fitting that tomorrow’s royal touched the world. She is the Head of State for over a visit will begin with a dance that celebrates our city’s quarter of the world’s population. That is celebrated in diversity. Commonwealth week and at the Commonwealth games— Leicester has a long history in textiles, hosiery and and I hope she will open the Olympic games later this shoemaking. Students on De Montfort university’s world- year. I encourage colleagues to take the opportunity of renowned footwear design course have been busy making diamond jubilee week to host a Commonwealth day a pair of shoes for the Duchess of Cambridge, and the reception in their constituencies, to mark the Queen’s royal party will watch a fashion show at the university. contribution not only to our country, but around the They will also hear about De Montfort’s Square Mile world. project, which aims to help local residents in Newfoundpool, As my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex Fosse and Woodgate, which are in my constituency. (Nicholas Soames) said, there have been many changes Students from Leicester college, including my constituent during Her Majesty’s reign. When the Leader of the Amrik Mudher, will then help to make the royal lunch Opposition, the right hon. Member for Doncaster North at St Martin’s house before the visitors proceed to (Edward Miliband), mentioned TV sets, I remembered Leicester cathedral and our historic clock tower. my mother telling me that the coronation was the first We in Leicester treasure our history, we celebrate our time she watched television. In Wrexham, people crowded present and we are confident about the future. There is into one particular shop, because the shopkeeper had a huge sense of anticipation and excitement about bought a television just to be able to watch that ceremony, tomorrow’s visit. I know that tomorrow the citizens of which changed history. Many other things have changed— Leicester will give the Queen, in the 60th year of her one of my favourite dishes, coronation chicken, was reign, a welcome of which our whole city, and country, invented for that day and is one of its lasting legacies. can be proud. We cannot praise Her Majesty’s service to our country too highly. She is a mother, a grandmother and a 1.39 pm great-grandmother. As has been said, she enjoys the company of dogs and horses, and on a visit to Suffolk Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): It is a earlier in the year, she went to Newmarket. On Her great privilege to be called to speak in this debate and Majesty’s special weekend, we will all join her in celebrating thereby have an opportunity to pay tribute to Her what is great about our country. I am sure that she will Majesty the Queen, both on my own part as her humble continue to serve us for years to come. subject and on behalf of the residents of Suffolk Coastal. For so many of us, she is the only monarch we have ever known, and what a wonderful example she has set of service, of family and of true commitment to our United 1.43 pm Kingdom. Members of my family proudly serve in the Sir Stuart Bell (Middlesbrough) (Lab): The hon. armed forces, and the Queen also served during world Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) made a fine war two, showing that what was good enough for her comment about His Royal Highness the Duke of subjects was good enough for her. The example she set Edinburgh, who will begin the royal tour tomorrow on then was an important part of the national war effort. schedule. We all welcome that news. I also pay tribute to the Queen’s steadfast consort, It is a great pleasure to attend this debate and to His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh. It is fantastic listen so many fine and noble speeches. I was impressed that he has recovered from his recent minor illness, and by the speeches of the right hon. Member for Mid I am delighted that he will be starting the jubilee tour Sussex (Nicholas Soames) and my right hon. Friend the with his wife tomorrow in Leicester. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw). I remember the I pay tribute to the Queen for her visit to the Republic death of George VI, but not the radio broadcast by his of Ireland last year. I wonder whether Her Majesty will kinsman the following night. I certainly remember the ever realise the true extent of the impact she made. It Queen’s coronation and the feeling in the country that may be a little controversial to say that it was a great we were entering a new Elizabethan era. That era has parliamentarian, Cromwell, who tore Ireland apart. I lasted longer than anyone would have imagined and has think that the Queen’s visit last year will have gone a been to our country’s credit and honour. long way towards restoring the relationship between Many right hon. and hon. Members have described our two great nations. their personal experiences of the Queen, the Duke and I do not pretend to have had any contact with Her the rest of the royal family. I first visited Buckingham Majesty, but we have heard some wonderful insights palace in 1984, accompanied by my wife. I saw the very and amusing anecdotes today. I do know, however, that first copy of Disraeli’s “Sybil, or The Two Nations” in the people who receive honours from her and those who an exhibition of manuscripts from Windsor castle. Her attend her garden parties are thrilled to do so, as are all Majesty and Prince Philip came along and talked to us the people who queue up as I did as little girl in 1977—I all very nicely. Dame Angela Rumbold, a former Minister also got a commemorative mug—and line the streets of of the Crown and Member of Parliament, was also Liverpool, Wrexham and other places because we want there. Her husband, John, died recently, which is a great to see our monarch. The only times that I have had any sadness to us all. Angela and I were officially paired in contact with Her Majesty are when she was gracious the House, and when I proudly told the Duke that, he enough to grant Royal Assent to a private Member’s turned to my wife and asked, “And you have an official 867 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 868 pair, my dear?” He had that twinkle in his eye that I am now a friend—said, “Wouldn’t it be nice if Her Majesty not quite sure about. Fortunately for me, however, my came along and spoke to us again?” I spoke to the wife held her peace. equerry and he managed to get Her Majesty to come Her Majesty visited Middlesbrough in 1992, when and speak to us, and the hon. Lady said, “YourMajesty, she and the Duke were touring the British isles for the we were together three years ago and you spoke to us last time on the royal yacht Britannia—former Prime then.” Her Majesty uttered the immortal words, “And Minister Tony Blair came to regret the decision to we are all still here,” and so, 60 years on from her abandon the yacht. The yacht was docked in Hartlepool, coronation, are Her Majesty and the Duke. It has been but Her Majesty visited my Middlesbrough constituency, a mighty achievement for a monarch to reign for 60 years where she opened a children’s playground at Pallister and that is why we pay tribute to Her Majesty and the park. The Queen clearly has greater knowledge of our Duke. We wish her well in her reign and we look back in parliamentary system than some Members, because she satisfaction and gratitude at the service she has rendered looked at me and said, “The Whips have let you off to this country. today, have they?” One of my constituents asked me if I had been 1.51 pm invited to a dinner on the royal yacht that evening. I Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): I am very somewhat shyly and diffidently said that my wife and I happy to verify the story of the hon. Member for had, indeed, been invited. My constituent said, “I sent Middlesbrough (Sir Stuart Bell). In supporting the Humble her a cruet set for her 40th anniversary. Will you ask her Address may I say that those of us who strive to show if she received it, and if she uses it?” It is always wise to that there should be no barriers to a woman being able seek to do a constituent’s bidding, of course, but I must to achieve all that a man can achieve have in Her admit that my courage failed me on that occasion. Majesty a shining example and a wonderful inspiration? My right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) described 1.51 pm various mistakes made in the Queen’s presence. I have often said to people that one thing we must never do is Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab): May I add my address the Queen; we must wait for her to address us. support to the sentiments expressed by the Prime Minister On one occasion, commanded again to Buckingham and the Leader of the Opposition following recent palace, I stood in line to be introduced. When my turn devastating events in Afghanistan? We must never forget came, I blurted out: “Your Majesty, I am your Second that those who serve are the lions of our country. We Church Estates Commissioner.” She replied, “Oh, really.” owe them all an enormous debt of gratitude and I am It took me some time to get over that. Later on, sure that the thoughts of the whole House will be with however, she came up to me and asked what the General the families of those who have tragically lost their lives Synod had been discussing last weekend—the right in Afghanistan. hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark It is an honour to speak in today’s Humble Address (Simon Hughes) will have taken note of that—which to celebrate the diamond jubilee of Her Majesty the made me feel a lot better. Queen. As Her Majesty prepares to begin the next I was Her Majesty’s Second Church Estates chapter in her remarkable history, it is right that we Commissioner for 13 years, and I saw very clearly her remind ourselves of the changes to the country and the dedication and devotion to her duties to state and to world that have accompanied her most distinguished Church—my right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn reign on the British throne. While the world has changed also mentioned that. I remember her opening the General at a rapid rate, the Queen has struck the balance perfectly Synod at Westminster abbey. She is, of course, Supreme between stability and tradition versus change and Governor of the Church of England through her coronation modernisation. She reigns steadfast in her belief in oath, which dates back to the time of Henry VIII. I saw duty, commitment and loyalty, steadfast in her belief in how she looked at the people around her and took in peace and prosperity both at home and overseas, and the atmosphere. It was clear that she enjoyed the event; steadfast as a mother and grandmother who works she was smiling in enjoyment and pleasure at her role as tirelessly for her nation and her family. The Queen has Supreme Governor—in marked contrast to what happened served her country dutifully and with a quiet dignity at the opening of the millennium dome, to which the and grace. I know that the Queen’s support for our Prime Minister referred. armed forces really does matter to them and their The hon. Member for Leicester South (Jonathan families, especially on days such as today. I believe that Ashworth) mentioned the Queen’s interest in other faiths. the Queen’s service is best defined by one word—duty. When she visited Lambeth palace on 15 February, she Her Majesty is undoubtedly formidable, but we know talked of nine families of faith. She referred to the that she also has a sense of humour. I recall a story significant position of the Church of England in our about a mayoress from a town that shall remain nameless, nation’s life and its duty to protect the free practice of although I will say that it was not Barnsley, who showed all faiths in this country. the Queen around a refurbished town hall. During the I have referred to various visits to Buckingham palace, tour, the Queen and mayoress arrived at an open cabinet and I would not wish to omit the final visit I made to see containing a rather formal robe, which prompted the Her Majesty there with other Members of Parliament. Queen to ask, “What is that robe for?” The mayoress We do get invited to Buckingham palace from time to replied, “This is our ceremonial robe, but we only use it time. On this occasion I was with a group of MPs that for very special occasions.” A wry smile from the Queen included the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing), said all that needed to be said. who I am sure would not miss this occasion today, when In complex and challenging times for Britain and the Her Majesty came to talk to us. Three years later, it was world, the Queen has remained a reassuring constant. our time again, and the hon. Member for Epping Forest— Her Majesty has worked tirelessly to support all her 869 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 870

[Dan Jarvis] barely a corner of the earth that she has not reached. Her Majesty has supported numerous charities and Prime Ministers and to build strong working relationships great causes throughout our country. She has acted as a with countless foreign Heads of State and leaders of the confidante to a dozen Prime Ministers throughout her Commonwealth countries. The Queen is well placed to reign and done tremendous work. Her strong work head a country that has culture, the arts, heritage, ethic is inspiring, and her eternal optimism for this design and technology at its core. Around the world, country is a great source of comfort in an era of change. portraits of the Queen have become synonymous with As her visit to my constituency demonstrated, our the traditions of the British monarchy. Rolf Harris and sovereign lady is a true believer in the people and Lucien Freud, to name just two, have had the opportunity businesses that make our country the greatest in the to paint Her Majesty. Oh to have been a fly on the wall world. Her Majesty is the embodiment of the British during one of Freud’s sittings with Her Majesty! spirit, and long may her reign continue. As we move into 2012, Her Majesty will inspire her nation again. In July, she will become the third British 1.58 pm monarch officially to open the London Olympic games, Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): My reason for following in the footsteps of her great-grandfather, speaking is that I have lived under four monarchs, and Edward VII, in 1908 and her father, George VI, in 1948. I would like to present a view that will represent a Before that, the nation will gather to celebrate the diversity of opinion in the country, which probably has diamond jubilee. In South Yorkshire, we will celebrate not been expressed so far in the debate. A Head of State with festivals and street parties. Over the next 12 months, wearing a green dress and bowing her head to Croke the eyes of the world will be on the Queen to inspire her Park was a very powerful symbol of reconciliation, people. I am confident, as, I am sure, are the whole which I believe will have a profound effect on healing House and the whole country, that she will, as ever, with the wounds that have disfigured life in the island of a grace and devotion to duty that is admired and Ireland for generations. respected the world over, once more make this country very proud. The Queen is still working, doing a full-time job, having been born in 1926. What a splendid example to the nation and to the House, which has just two hon. 1.56 pm Members who are octogenarians. Their distinguished Priti Patel (Witham) (Con): It is a great privilege to contributions should ensure that we encourage greater have this opportunity, on behalf of the Witham diversity in the House. It is one area where we fail. constituency, to support the Humble Address to Her Great progress has been made; there is a larger proportion Majesty the Queen. of women Members and more Members from the minorities, although not yet enough, but we fail dismally In October 2010, my constituency was honoured by on the number of people who can remember what it was the first visit of Her Majesty to that part of Essex for a like before there was a health service, for instance. We generation. She came to visit Wilkin and Sons in Tiptree, should look with gratitude to the Queen for providing a which has a royal warrant. As right hon. and hon. magnificent example. Members will know, the company makes the finest jams My third positive point is from the writings of Robert and preserves in the world. In the weeks leading to the Rhodes James, a former Member for Cambridge and a visit, the air of excitement and anticipation was immense. respected historian. He raised a fascinating point about That seems unimaginable in today’s era of short-term the feelings in the Conservative party when Mrs Thatcher’s celebrity culture, but business men, schoolchildren and premiership was coming to an end. He wrote of concern pensioners were all enthused and excited about her in Conservative circles that Mrs Thatcher might decide presence in Tiptree. The visit brought everyone together to call a general election, acting in her own interests as nothing else could and blew us all away on the day. It rather than those of the nation, and that the Conservative is a testament to her remarkable character that everyone party, the House and the Cabinet would not be able to who met her felt inspired and delighted that the Queen stop her. The only person who could have stopped her had engaged in conversation with them. Despite the was the Head of State, and I believe all of us agree that fact that that visit was only one of the hundreds she the Queen’s strength of character and the fact that she makes each year, everyone felt special to have spent time had served many other Prime Ministers would give us with Her Majesty. full confidence that she was the best person in that Just as Tiptree celebrated Her Majesty’s visit, people situation or any situation when a Prime Minister decided across my constituency are now embracing the diamond to act in his or her interests rather than the interests of jubilee celebrations. Witham town council has organised the country. a competition for local schoolchildren to design a logo Another tradition is represented in this country, certainly to mark this momentous occasion. With so many events, in my constituency when, in 1839, a group of Chartists street parties and activities taking place in her honour, demonstrated and their purpose was not entirely benign we can see that Her Majesty is perhaps the only living towards Queen Victoria. Twenty of them were shot. It is person who can command this level of respect and right that we look at the relationship between the sovereign loyalty and bring our great nation together. and ourselves in a modern Parliament. One welcomes It is absolutely fitting, with the celebrations taking the fact that a new coat of arms will be added to the place across the country and the Commonwealth, that many already displayed in the House, but sadly there is the House should pay its own tribute to the 60 years of virtually no pictorial depiction of the struggles for selfless service that Her Majesty has given to the United democracy by the Chartists, the Tolpuddle martyrs, the Kingdom and the Commonwealth. She has relentlessly suffragettes and others who shaped the rich and strong promoted Britain throughout the world, and there is democracy we have today. We should put that right. 871 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 872

The speeches that have been made so far have been This is my second speech on an Humble Address; the sincere and heartfelt, and virtually all were true, but if other was six years ago on the occasion of the Queen’s someone wants to be critical, they are not allowed to be. 80th birthday. Of the six Members who contributed If a monarch, or just a relative of the monarch, strayed that day, only two have done so again today: the Prime from the paths of sainthood and perfection, it would be Minister did so from a different position, but I speak impossible for a Member of the House to be critical of from the same place and am happy to provide continuity that person. That is not sensible. If that circumstance for the Humble Address. should arise, we should be allowed to talk freely if Her Majesty has had a long and impressive reign. I words of criticism are necessary. noted from a recent TV documentary that 60 years ago It is right, too, that the quarter of the population who she pledged to serve the “imperial family”. Time has describe themselves as republican should have their moved on, and so has the Queen, although not her views heard. We know that figure is reflected in the inner gracious qualities and decorum. The imperial membership of the House. When there was a debate family has changed into a Commonwealth, as the Prime some years ago about whether there should be an Minister noted earlier, and Her Majesty is now Queen alternative Oath, more than 100 Members voted for it. of 16 independent states, a number that may be added To avoid the verbal rigmarole that republicans have to to in coming years—a veritable growing family. go through when taking the Oath, we should have an In the year of Her Majesty’s 80th birthday, six alternative. years ago, she cruised around the Hebrides—my Finally, I am sure that even with the history of my constituency, Na h-Eileanan an Iar—perhaps her favourite city, where republicanism has existed for at least 200 years, destination in all her realms. Before she becomes our all the people I represent, whether they see themselves longest reigning monarch—God willing—on 9 September as subjects or citizens, royalists or republicans, will wish 2015, I hope that she may again have the opportunity to the Queen well on this occasion. cruise around the Hebrides, as this year may be a bit busy for her. 2.4 pm In my childhood it was always a high point when Her Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): On behalf of my Majesty visited the islands south of Barra, and travelled constituents of Romford and Hornchurch, I rise in there in peace, and the three masts of the royal yacht support of the Prime Minister in the Humble Address Britannia were visible behind the hills when it was to the Queen, and add my congratulations and heartfelt anchored in Vatersay bay. thanks to her Majesty for her service and dedication to Finally, I say in Gaelic—the old but also the modern our nation in this, the 60th year of her reign as our language of Scotland—“Meallaibh ar naidheachd a Head of State, sovereign and defender of the faith. Bhanrighinn Elasdaid is tha mi an dochas gum bi ioma The diamond jubilee of Her Majesty the Queen will Bliadhna sona roimhibh.” be a wonderful celebration for all the people of these islands, and a truly historic occasion for British people 2.9 pm throughout the world. Let us remember that although Her Majesty is dear to all of us in this country, she is Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) also loved by millions across the globe. The Queen (LD): Opening today’s debate on the Humble Address, reigns over not only the United Kingdom of Great the Prime Minister mentioned how much Her Majesty Britain and Northern Ireland but 15 other realms, five enjoys the Braemar gathering, which takes place in my Crown dependencies and16 overseas territories, and constituency. The secret of the success to which we have 11 external territories of which Australia and New paid tribute today is the royal family’s ability to recharge Zealand are sovereign; in total, 135 million people the batteries in the highland retreat of Balmoral in the throughout 48 realms and territories, representing more heart of my constituency.On behalf of the many neighbours than 18.8 million square miles of the world remain who live in West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, I associate under the Crown. myself with the remarks made today. I wish Her Majesty well in her diamond jubilee and support the Humble From the Arctic north of Canada to the British Address. Antarctic Territory at the most southerly end of the planet, from Norfolk island on the eastern side of the Pacific to the Pitcairn islands on the western side, from 2.9 pm the Caribbean to the Indian ocean, and from the Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): I support Falkland islands of the south Atlantic to the Rock of the very gracious words of the Prime Minister and my Gibraltar, people across the world will be celebrating right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition. this joyful occasion. Today, in this mother of Parliaments, let us remember all Her Majesty’s loyal subjects from It seems to me that if we were political scientists every corner of the globe, and together celebrate our creating a state, as we did after the second world war, we shared heritage, represented so magnificently by Queen would not begin with a monarchy in this day and age. It Elizabeth II. is an irrational, arbitrary, often deranged institution that depends upon the luck of genes, and it does not always work out well for the country, but not in this 2.7 pm case. We must also, it seems, be careful about aligning Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) too closely the history and identity of Britain with the (SNP): On behalf of the Scottish National party and history and identity of monarchy. Royal families come Plaid Cymru, I add our congratulations to the Queen and go; some have very strong connections with the and wish her well on the tremendous occasion of her nation, others very weak ones—indeed, some do not 60th jubilee. even speak the same language as we do. 873 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 874

[Tristram Hunt] In the Potteries the kilns are hot for the diamond jubilee and, on behalf of my constituents, I am delighted to But there is no doubt that in the post-war years the add my support to the Humble Address. monarchy of Queen Elizabeth II closely aligned itself with the changing history and identity of Britain, and often for the most curious reasons. On the one hand, 2.14 pm Her Majesty was lucky. History is clear that those who Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston North) (Con): do not wait around for the throne—those who have it May I associate myself with the comments of the Leader thrust upon them at an early age—often prove to be of the Opposition and my right hon. Friend the Prime among the most successful of our monarchs. In terms Minister about the sad loss in Afghanistan today? One of longevity and achievement, being a queen rather of the soldiers was a member of the Duke of Lancaster’s than a king also plays well, particularly for the history Regiment, and my thoughts are with the family and all of England. Added to that have been the remarkable those who have given their lives—the ultimate sacrifice—in personal virtues that have been spelled out so effectively fighting for Afghanistan. by my right hon. and hon. Members: patience, dignity, I support the Humble Address today. Before I came resolve, discretion, duty. into the House, I served Her Majesty the Queen and What has been so remarkable in Her Majesty’s reign Duke of Lancaster as a member of the Scots Guards has been the ability to let the monarchy assist in the for nine years, and I am currently a member of the transformation of post-war Britain. On her watch, Britain Queen’s bodyguard for Scotland. Now that our colleagues, has changed from a predominantly Protestant, white the Scottish National party, have become monarchists and hierarchical society to a multi-cultural, mixed-race, too, perhaps there is less cause for me to use that body secular nation inherently hostile towards privilege and to guard Her Majesty in future. inherited position. And yet, through all these extraordinary I saw behind the scenes of the monarchy in my time social and cultural upheavals, which have seen monarchies before entering politics. We in the House know more come and go on the continent, Her Majesty has managed than most that it is not easy to make people feel special to retain the nation’s abiding affection and provided on their occasion. It is not easy to show interest in the some sense of the unity of values that we have discussed. things they do every day, which they take to be so This is partly the product of the nature of monarchy, important. It is not easy to live under the daily gaze of which is non-sectarian, imperial and then Commonwealth the media, both in private life and in public life. We do in its reach, curiously suited for the identities of a this on occasion, but Her Majesty the Queen has done it diffuse, globalised age. Similarly, as the right hon. Member for 60 years. Her family does it every day. for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) Not only does Her Majesty do that to the highest suggested, one of the ironies of the Queen’s strength is standard, but she leaves everybody she meets with the her sense of faith in a multi-religious age, a deep feeling that they have been touched by the monarchy commitment to the Church of England and its teachings; and by the nation. When people are given an award by providing that official sanction for faith provides space Her Majesty the Queen, it is not because of politics or for other faiths to express themselves. At times of favour but because our nation values what they do. repeated difficulties, the Queen has wisely kept the That is something that she herself embodies. She also monarchy outside politics and stuck to the old royal leaves with all of us a story of our encounters with the aphorism that Ministers are king in this country. Queen or members of the royal family. But the work goes on. The monarchy and Her Majesty’s On one occasion I was the officer of the guard at Government are going to have to deal very deftly with Buckingham palace and I had to accompany Her the growing calls for republican autonomy in former Majesty the Queen to an investiture. I was at that time colonies, as we heard so recently in Jamaica and, inevitably, seeking a seat in the Scottish Parliament and I had in Australia. The House of Windsor will also have to been for the selection meeting on the Monday at confront the challenge of separatism within the UK Balmoral, in Crathie, to try and stand for the seat of and perhaps the return to a fully federal vision of West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine in the Scottish monarchy. There is certainly more to be done on both Parliament. I was not lucky and did not get through to physical and intellectual access to the royal estates, their the final round. However, Her Majesty the Queen asked archives and their histories, but none of this should be me what I had done and I said that I had been up in her an insurmountable challenge. neck of the woods, but unfortunately I thought that Finally, I am always wary when the House is too members of the selection board thought I was a bit too reverential towards monarchy. We should, as my hon. young. She said, “I think they should think again.” The Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), next day I got a phone call, to be told that the shortlist who has departed, suggested, also speak to our of two was too small and would be expanded to five. I different traditions. We should have a healthy respect was then selected as the Conservative candidate for but also a critical eye on the actions of the sovereign West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, and elected to the and on the sovereign’s finances, power and estate. We Scottish Parliament, and perhaps that is why I am have our own history and identity in this place, a standing here today. democratic rather than monarchical heritage that Britain The Queen also embodies the Sandhurst tradition also speaks to. As such, we can all pay deep respects to of serve to lead, which is all about public duty. She the enormous personal contribution of Her Majesty taught me at Sandhurst that you give yourself to lead Queen Elizabeth II. your country. Perhaps she is the true inspiration of the I can say that particularly from my constituency, big society. We forget so much about the value and Stoke-on-Trent, where the order books are strong and importance of public duty. People today need more employment is up on the back of this summer’s celebrations. stability. They need less politics, not more, and they 875 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 876 need impartiality. Her Majesty the Queen has provided 2.21 pm all that for our nation, and she has allowed our nation Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con): On to feel secure in itself and to continue to achieve the behalf of my constituents, I want to describe how the greatness that this country achieves and stands for Queen comes across to a great many of us. I have never throughout the world. met Her Majesty, and until I attended a garden party On behalf of all the armed forces that I served with last year I had never seen her in the flesh. Indeed, even and the veterans whom I now represent in Lancashire, then I saw her only from a distance. That is the great and my constituents in the Duchy of Lancaster and my experience of many of my constituents and many in this constituency, Wyre and Preston North, I wish Her country. However, one thing overrides all that. Many Majesty a happy and successful diamond jubilee, and people regard Her Majesty almost as a member of the long may she reign. family, because they know her so well. In a time of crisis she is always there on our television screens. Indeed, 2.18 pm Christmas day simply would not be Christmas day without Her Majesty’s 3 o’clock address. Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): I add my support One thing that shines out about having a monarch to the motion in the name of the Prime Minister and who is well above the political process is what she does express my best wishes to Her Majesty the Queen in her when we have disasters and tragedies in our country, diamond jubilee year. I recognise the very important such as the tragic events of 7 July 2005. When she was contribution she has made to this country over that able to visit the hospital and meet the people who had time and also to our relationships with other nations been so tragically and grievously wounded, the country around the world. It is a remarkable and inspiring was able to share in its mourning behind Her Majesty, a achievement that 60 years on from her accession to the lady who is in no way linked to political organisations. throne, she continues to serve with undiminished energy, During the Falklands war, when some suggested that it vigour, dedication and grace. was simply too dangerous for her son to be sent into Other Members have highlighted the Queen’s service conflict, Her Majesty, never one to shy away from and dedication in many spheres of national life, but in responsibility, would hear nothing of it. She said that he my brief remarks I wish to focus on just one example was a serving member of the armed forces and so would that is of particular importance to me and those I go and do his duty. With that comes the respect of the represent, and to which the Prime Minister has already nation and of those who serve Her Majesty and this referred. Other Members have spoken of the changing country.I will keep this short: on behalf of my constituents times during which the Queen has reigned. Even during in Elmet and Rothwell, I simply say “God save the my lifetime we have witnessed some remarkable Queen.” improvements in relations between Ireland and Britain, particularly over the past few years. However, the state 2.23 pm visit to Ireland last year, hosted by the former President, Mary McAleese, which was the first state visit by a Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): As the Member of British monarch to that state in 100 years, lifted those Parliament for Britain’s oldest recorded town and the relationships to an entirely new level and, I believe, have first capital of Roman Britain, I wish to be associated helped to make a tangible contribution to the building with the Address and much of what has been said. I can of a more shared and prosperous future in Northern recall being a five-year-old at Myland primary school Ireland. when King George VI died. I can also remember 16 months Although the success of that historic royal visit was later seeing television for the first time and watching the the result of detailed planning, careful management, coronation at a family friend’s house in Mile End in sensitive choreography and strong political leadership, Colchester. it was also in no small measure due to the unique Like others, I wish to pay tribute not only to Her warmth of the relationship between those two female Majesty the Queen, but to the Duke of Edinburgh for Heads of State, who engaged with each other and all his support over the years. In particular, I want to with the hugely emotive and sensitive issues raised by mention the support that both have given to many the visit with the kind of dignity and humility that youth organisations over the past 60 years. As a Queen’s should mark our approach to all such difficult issues. scout, I will mention the scout movement and the guide The transformational effects that the powerful movement. Of course, as Princess Elizabeth, our Queen images and thoughtful reflections on our nations’ was a girl guide, and there are other youth organisations shared history generated by the visit had on healing the that she and Prince Philip have supported. Of the many wounds of our difficult past are significant not only in charities and organisations that she is directly associated their own right, but in laying out a template and a tone with as a patron, I wish to mention LEPRA, the for our future engagement with each other. It was a international charity tackling leprosy around the world, vivid demonstration of the power of reconciliation and whose international headquarters are based in my the generosity required for real leadership. constituency. Although that special contribution was a very small The Queen has made three visits to Colchester in her part of her past 60 years of service to this country, I glorious reign, and I have had the pleasure of witnessing believe that it was never the less of huge value in all of them: first as a pupil at St Helena secondary Northern Ireland and in these islands and therefore modern school for boys; secondly as deputy mayor of deserves particular recognition as we mark this historic Colchester; and thirdly as the town’s MP.On two occasions occasion. I pay tribute to the Queen and to Prince the Queen has also visited the university of Essex in Philip for their service to date and wish them God’s Colchester, an institution of which you, Mr Speaker, richest blessing in the years ahead. have fond memories as both a graduate and an honorary 877 Diamond Jubilee7 MARCH 2012 Diamond Jubilee 878

[Sir Bob Russell] illustrious predecessor, has always understood that it is the affection of her people that is most important. The graduate. You will know that it is the most international solemn oath that Her Majesty took at her coronation of Britain’s universities. I think it is a safe bet that every has been and is being fulfilled in every possible way. Commonwealth country will at some stage be represented May I, on behalf of my constituents, offer praise and there, if they are not already, because over 120 nationalities thanks for her 60 years of service as our Queen and are represented there. The Queen has also been a great head of the Commonwealth? She has truly lived a life supporter of our armed forces. As I represent the garrison triumphant. May God save our diamond Queen. town of Colchester, I wish to associate the garrison with my greetings to Her Majesty. 2.27 pm I am a constitutional monarchist. When we look at Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con): I join others Presidents of the United States and of France, I think in congratulating Her Majesty the Queen on the occasion we see that constitutional monarchy has more than the of her diamond jubilee. As you know, Mr Speaker, this edge. Finally, 2000 years ago Colchester was a Roman is a unique occasion, because normally we are not city. In the mists of time, somehow that status was lost. allowed to mention members of the royal family in this It would be marvellous if in this the diamond jubilee place. For 60 years Her Majesty, beyond all call of duty, year the city status could be restored. has managed to be charming to her subjects. Having spent half that number of years in public service, I Mr Speaker: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman can certainly find it a strain to be pleasant to people morning, be relied upon to send a copy of his speech to that noon and night. As I represent the constituency with magnificent institution, the university of Essex, and the largest number of centenarians in the country, I can probably to a good many other institutions besides. tell the House that they greatly look forward to the telegram they receive from Her Majesty the Queen—my own mother, Maud, is looking forward to her telegram 2.26 pm on 2 May. Finally, I have a question for your good self, Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): When Mr Speaker: when Her Majesty celebrates her the first Queen Elizabeth made her golden speech back 100th birthday, who will send her a telegram? Long may in 1601, she acknowledged that, more than anything she reign over us. else, it was the affection of her people that had sustained Question put and agreed to, nemine contradicente. her through her long reign. Addressing one of your Resolved, predecessors, Mr Speaker, she said: That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty on the “And, though God hath raised me high, yet this I count the occasion of the Sixtieth Anniversary of Her Accession to the glory of my Crown, that I have reigned with your loves.” Throne. Over 400 years later, in our age of constitutional monarchy, That the said Address be presented to Her Majesty by the we are fortunate indeed to have a monarch who, like her whole House. 879 7 MARCH 2012 Points of Order 880

Points of Order Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Just a few weeks ago we 2.29 pm had a Back-Bench business debate about Remploy. Dozens of my colleagues took part in it, and it is Mr Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab): On extremely discourteous of the Minister to fail to come a point of order, Mr Speaker. This has been an important to this House and explain to us exactly what is happening day, and we have just had an excellent debate. It is to the organisation. At my local Remploy factory in therefore disappointing that the Department for Work Aberdare, 42 people are going to lose their jobs, in a job and Pensions chose this occasion to release, after the market where there are no jobs. It is an utter disgrace to Prime Minister sat down, an announcement stating that do that to disabled people at the moment, as it is for the two thirds of Remploy factories in this country will now Minister to offer a briefing in room W4 between 3 and close. That is a matter of great concern to Members on 4 o’clock this afternoon, out of sight of all the people in both sides of the House. Have you, Sir, received any this Chamber and away from the television cameras. It request for an oral statement on this subject, and if not will not do, and I ask you to call the Minister to this how may we now bring Ministers to this House to House to explain what the policy is all about. account for that callous decision? Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): Further to that point of Several hon. Members rose— order, Mr Speaker. Those people are some of the most vulnerable workers in my constituency, and they were Mr Speaker: Order. May I just establish whether sacked by the Minister at 12.36 pm today through a colleagues are seeking to come in on the same matter? I written statement that was sent to the Library. Offering think Mr Bryant is. a briefing in private, when my constituents want to hear the justification for their losing their jobs, is not good Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Further to that point enough, and the Under-Secretary of State for Work and of order, Mr Speaker. I am seeking to do so, because Pensions, the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Maria you know that earlier this week I raised the matter of Miller), should be ashamed of herself. She should come the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, here and, if she is making the right decision, make the the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller), coming arguments. to the Remploy factory in my constituency. All the staff there, many of whom are very vulnerable members of society, have been deeply disturbed by the way in which Chris Bryant: She could come at 7 today. she came into the office and left. They did not know whether there was going to be an announcement today; Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Further the written ministerial statement is simply called to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Yesterday I raised “Employment Support”. This has been sneaked out, it the future of Remploy with the Chancellor at Treasury is unfair to treat disabled people in this country in that Question Time. There was no inkling of any sudden way, and the Minister is wandering around all the radio announcement of a mass closure of 36 factories, with studios this afternoon. It is a disgrace. We should be the Swansea factory closing down and 1,200 disabled treated better, and disabled people in this country should people losing their jobs. Is it in order to make such a be treated better. statement through the Library, without even a debate about the future of individual factories and their financial Several hon. Members rose— viability, given that we have lots of orders coming in, and without even an oral statement? At a time when we Mr Speaker: I will take one or two more points of have spent so long, quite rightly, celebrating the diamond order, then I really must respond. jubilee of our Queen, Remploy, along with the future job prospects of hundreds of disabled people, is subject Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): Further to that to a clandestine, cloak and dagger assassination. It is an point of order, Mr Speaker. This afternoon, in the absolute disgrace. Welsh Assembly, Labour’s Minister, Leighton Andrews, who is not responsible for this policy, will be standing, Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): Further to will be making an oral statement and will be open to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am very concerned to questions from democratically elected Members of that hear that the Remploy factory in Spennymoor is to be Assembly. Yet here, in this place, we have the disgrace of closed. Surely it is possible for the Minister to come to a Minister who sneaks out a written statement. I am the House at 7 o’clock. unable to question that Minister on the 47 loyal staff in Bridgend. My hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda Mr Speaker: I am grateful to Members for their (Chris Bryant) is unable to question her about the points of order, and I note what the hon. Lady has just 74 staff in Porth, who also serve my constituency, or said, and what the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris about the nine other factories throughout Wales which Bryant) said, about the possibility of something being are threatened. offered to the House by way of a statement later in the That is a disgrace, and I genuinely seek your guidance, day. I can offer no encouragement on that front. I Mr Speaker, because on a day when we have just spent, simply make the following points. First, the House quite rightly, some time on an Humble Address to Her knows the importance I attach—the premium that I Majesty, an institution as venerable as Remploy—with attach—to statements being made to the House, and to people as loyal as its workers—has not received the a proper judgment being made as to the merit of the courtesy of being addressed within this place. I know case for scrutiny, there and then, of that statement; that you are a guardian of this House. I hope that you secondly, the Treasury Bench is heavily populated, and can help us. representatives of it will have heard the strength of 881 Points of Order 7 MARCH 2012 882

[Mr Speaker] Speaker’s Statement feeling that has been expressed in the House this afternoon; and, finally, there are well established procedures for 2.37 pm Members to raise the matter in the House tomorrow— procedures of which they will themselves be very well Mr Speaker: I have a very short statement to make aware. about the arrangements for Tuesday 20 March. The House will meet for Prayers at 9.45 am. I will Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): then suspend the sitting until 2.30 pm. Members attending On a point of order, Mr Speaker. What can be done to the ceremony in Westminster Hall should be in their clarify the Government’s position on the national planning seats by 10.25 am. The Speaker’s procession with the policy framework? Last night’s “Newsnight” programme Mace will enter Westminster Hall shortly before the reported a very clear understanding that no significant arrival of Her Majesty the Queen. After the ceremony changes would be made to the document, despite vociferous the Mace will be returned to the Chamber, so the Chamber campaigns being run by the National Trust and the will be closed to visitors until the sitting is resumed at Royal Society for the Protection of Birds in the consultation 2.30 pm. I hope that that is helpful to the House. process. If no changes are to be made, that will be a matter of great concern for many people, so have you been approached by the Government wanting to make a statement on the matter, and if not what can be done to allow the House to question Ministers on it?

Mr Speaker: I have not been so approached. The hon. Lady has at least started to provide a solution to the dilemma that she has identified, by airing her concerns in the House and by placing the matter on the record, and knowing her as I do I have a sense that her efforts will continue and accelerate in a variety of ways. 883 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 884 Ireland sport. Ulster people enjoy little more than applauding Opposition Day the success of one of their own. So the triumph of Mary Peters at the 1972 Munich Olympics raised people’s [UNALLOTTED HALF DAY] spirits in one of the worst years of the troubles of Northern Ireland. The sporting skills of George Best on Changing Perceptions of Northern Ireland the football pitch, Wayne McCulloch and Barry McGuigan in the boxing ring, or Alex Higgins in the snooker were 2.38 pm sources of local pride. These people were sporting legends who, in their own ways, challenged people’s perception Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): I beg to of what it meant to be from Northern Ireland. move, Moving forward to more recent days, it is right that That this House welcomes the NI 2012 campaign to change we acknowledge the incredible fact, seeing that we are a perceptions of Northern Ireland and to encourage many more people of some 1.6 million, that we have stormed to the visitors to come to Northern Ireland; notes that, despite current economic difficulties, this campaign takes place in the context of very top of the world of golf. Everyone in Northern a momentous year for the UK when the nation will celebrate the Ireland is so proud of the success of Graeme McDowell, Diamond Jubilee of Her Majesty The Queen, and will host the Darren Clarke and Rory McIlroy, who has recently Olympic Games; further notes that, in Northern Ireland, 2012 is reached the pinnacle of golf success, being named No. the centenary of the Titanic tragedy, an event that remains seared 1 in the world. These three giants of world golf are into the world’s consciousness and culture, and the centenary of tremendous ambassadors for Northern Ireland, as indeed the signing of the Ulster Covenant and Declaration, often described is my local snooker champion, Mark Allen from Antrim. as the foundation document of Northern Ireland; welcomes the Northern Ireland people are thrilled by their incredible enormous progress that has occurred in recent years in moving Northern Ireland forward; and looks forward to the programme success. In this Olympic year, I hope that Northern of events and activities which will help make Northern Ireland Ireland will reap the benefits of the Olympic games and the place to visit in 2012. will host a number of competitors and visitors from I count it as an honour to open this debate this across the world. afternoon, but it is correct and right, on behalf of my There is no doubt that, in common with all other right hon. and hon. Friends, to acknowledge the great United Kingdom regions, we are experiencing the effects shadow that has been cast not only over this debate, but of the global economic recession. This has been the across the United Kingdom, with the tragic news that longest and the toughest recession in living memory. the Prime Minister announced earlier today of six However, the great majority of people to whom I have soldiers missing presumed dead in Afghanistan. We spoken in my constituency and beyond are convinced remember their families in our prayers, and we trust that we must do all in our power to ensure that 2012 that they might find comfort in knowing that people are becomes a lift-off point for the community. There is remembering them at this very difficult time. absolutely no doubt that this year’s expansive programme There is an old cliché in marketing and public relations of events will provide a useful means of dismantling the which states that perception is everything. Regardless of old perceptions about Northern Ireland. the whys and the wherefores, and even independent of Ulster people are sometimes known throughout the the reality of events as they happen on the ground, a rest of world as being a little on the serious side and bad perception can be extremely difficult to overcome. prone to a dose of pessimism. I suppose that, to a Once tarred with such an impression, the tar can be certain extent, that criticism is valid. We are, after all, exceptionally difficult to remove and sticks for a long the only people I know of in the United Kingdom who time. For many people beyond the shores of Northern express happiness in a negative way. If one asks someone Ireland, their impressions of our corner of the United from London, “How are you?” I suggest that they Kingdom were shaped by the nearly constant stream of would probably answer, “I am well, thank you.” Ask an negative headlines that were regularly beamed all across Ulsterman, and one will usually be told two words: the world. With depressing regularity, our television “Not bad.” Despite our perceived negativity, I am pleased screens were filled with images of carnage, human suffering to report that there is much good news to be reported and murder. from our small yet vital corner of the United Kingdom, We must never forget the fortitude of our people in and one of those is that we are the happiest people in these years, for they did not bow to the scourge of IRA the United Kingdom. I noticed what the Prime Minister terrorism. We regret the tragic loss of life of every said in response to my right hon. Friend the Member innocent victim of terror, and again we express our for Belfast North (Mr Dodds). I wish that the Prime sympathy to their loved ones. Indeed, this is the anniversary Minister could see what we sometimes see on his Benches of the murder of three men in a local village beside my when we look at some of the faces there. I must confess home in Coagh, and also the two young soldiers who that I understand what he says, but I am doing my best were murdered in Antrim. We think of their families and playing my part in encouraging Social Democratic also this day. and Labour party Members to be more bright and For many people, including investors and business cheerful in this House. leaders, the perception of Northern Ireland was of a region stuck down in the morass of intractable divisions Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): and beset by problems that could never be resolved. It is To reassure my hon. Friend, this morning I passed on to therefore worth placing it on record that even in the the Prime Minister the compliments of the Northern midst of the darkest days there were glimmers of hope, Ireland section of this House to ensure that he would and a few bright stars shone on the otherwise dark get the message about the Ulster sense of humour—that horizon. One area in which Ulster has always punched, it pervades Northern Ireland and knows no distinctions sometimes literally, above its weight is in the realm of or boundaries whatsoever. I look forward to the Prime 885 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 886 Ireland Ireland [Mr Gregory Campbell] positive impact that hundreds and thousands of ambassadors made up of local people can have in this Minister taking on board that lesson, and perhaps next wonderful year. As the Minister of State, Northern week at Prime Minister’s questions we will see an end to Ireland Office observed recently, the angry man and perhaps one of an even more “if you are not in Northern Ireland this year, frankly, you are no pleasant disposition. one.”—[Official Report, 25 January 2012; Vol. 539, c. 287.] I heartily concur with that sentiment. Dr McCrea: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. History is probably more important in Northern The Ulster humour has helped Northern Ireland Ireland than in any other part of the world. It is through its most difficult days. Many others would have certainly a deeply contested subject, which leads many gone into the depths of despair; Northern Ireland was observers to believe that the people of Northern Ireland able to plough through over 30 years of continual are utterly consumed by history. That is a mistaken terrorism and to come out at the other end having assumption. There is a new spirit throughout the Province, beaten the terrorists and ready to put Northern Ireland whereby people are prepared to look at history not in a on a better footing. That says much for the character of dispassionate way, but in a way that threatens nobody the people of the Province. and that allows people from different backgrounds to learn about our glorious history. It is our aim that Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): Last week the everyone will more fully develop their understanding of Prime Minister commented on the happiness levels of the forces that have played such a role in shaping our the Democratic Unionist party, and this week the DUP society in Northern Ireland. has commented on the happiness levels of the Tories. As a Unionist, I welcome the development of greater What assessment has the hon. Gentleman made of the understanding and learning, because all too often, history happiness levels of the Liberal Democrats? books are written about the Province by people who have never been there and who know little of the Dr McCrea: I have to say to the hon. Gentleman that circumstances about which they are writing. The biased words would often fail me in describing the misery that and one-sided evaluation of history has caused great I see on the faces of Lib Dem Members, but we will annoyance among the people whom I represent. leave them for another occasion. I see from their vacant I am pleased that this year, we shall see a wide range Benches that their level of interest in Northern Ireland of events to mark the centenary of the signing of the affairs is really wonderful today. Ulster covenant and declaration. The men and women Let me return to the good news from our small yet of Ulster who answered the call of Sir Edward Carson vital part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland’s to oppose Home Rule from Dublin laid the foundation unemployment rate is the lowest of any country in the stone of the Northern Ireland state. Although officially, UK. After London, Belfast is the most attractive city in Northern Ireland’s year one is 1921, in a real sense the UK for foreign direct investment. Belfast is among 1912 was actually the starting point, because after the the top 10 cities in the world for financial technology signing of the covenant and the declaration there could investments, ahead of Glasgow, Dublin and Toronto. be no doubt in the mind of Lloyd George’s Administration Ulster pupils constantly turn in the best GCSE and that the Unionists of Ulster were not prepared to accept A-level results of any UK region. These are things that Home Rule from Dublin. From 1912, the irreversible we should rightly be proud of. slide towards the establishment of the state of Northern I suspect that very few people inside, let alone outside Ireland commenced. Northern Ireland are aware of those startling facts. It is important to note the significant role that women That highlights the crucial importance of campaigns played in the organisation of the campaign against such as Northern Ireland 2012. Years of negativity have Home Rule, which culminated in the massive Ulster day taken their toll, but I genuinely believe that people are demonstration on 28 September 1912. Women were the starting to feel good about being from our wee country backbone of the campaign against Home Rule. Indeed, once more. The slogan for the NI 2012 campaign is more women than men signed the declaration in Ulster. “Your time, our place”, and that perfectly encapsulates In many towns and villages, it was the local women’s the rising tide of optimism that exists in the Province. organisations and individual women who delivered the This year will be a tremendous boost for Northern logistical support required for the mammoth undertaking Ireland, with so much going on that it is hard to keep of gathering more than half a million signatures. That track. Key events in the Province will include the opening important aspect of the history of those significant of Titanic Belfast, the Olympic and Paralympic torch events has not, in my view, received the coverage that it relay, the Irish Open at Royal Portrush, and the arrival deserves. I hope that it will be more evident in the of the Clipper round the world yacht race. The stated forthcoming centenary celebrations. aims of the NI 2012 campaign are to change the perception When I think of the ordinary Ulster women who gave of Northern Ireland, to raise our profile, to drive visitor so much for the cause that they believed in, motivated numbers, to generate economic impact, and to underpin by a sense of patriotism and principle, my mind inevitably civic pride and self-respect. turns to the most remarkable woman of the last three I am proud to be from Northern Ireland, and I generations: Her Majesty the Queen. I remember her believe that more and more people from Northern coronation. I remember a fancy dress competition in Ireland are starting to feel likewise. We shall reap a my local town of Stewartstown. I was dressed as a little remarkable reward. Just as Mary Peters and George sailor. My sister won the competition and we were very Best played such an important role in showing the proud of her. people of Northern Ireland, and the rest of the world, The Queen is a constant background presence in the that hope was not lost during the dark days, imagine the lives of many of our citizens, and comes to the fore on 887 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 888 Ireland Ireland great national occasions such as Remembrance Sunday, manifesto and was included in the coalition’s programme the trooping of the colour and Christmas. The Queen for government, which resulted in a public consultation has been the one fixed point in an ever-changing world. last year on a Treasury paper and the establishment of It is remarkable to think that David Cameron receives the ministerial working group. That all demonstrates advice and counsel from a monarch whose first Prime that rebalancing the economy remains one of the highest Minister was Sir Winston Churchill. There is no doubt priorities for me and my Department. My hon. Friend that Her Majesty has made good her vow that her the Minister of State will of course be here throughout whole life would be devoted to the service of her people. the debate to respond to the points made by right hon. This year we mark 60 remarkable years of service, and and hon. Members. we give thanks to Almighty God for all that Her Majesty I welcome the choice of subject for this debate. Let has accomplished on behalf of our United Kingdom. me say at the outset that the Government support the We are proud to say, “Long may she reign.” broad thrust of the motion. The Government will support Many people in Northern Ireland, even people from the Northern Ireland Executive in their efforts to make a nationalist background, hold Her Majesty in high Northern Ireland a better and more economically successful regard. I wish that their elected representatives would place. The Northern Ireland 2012 campaign is an excellent represent that position. I hope that the Government, example of that endeavour. within the obvious constraints of security, will afford as The debate is also extremely timely. There has long many Ulster people as possible the opportunity to say a been a complaint that the world does not get to hear big thank you to Her Majesty in her special year. about the many great things about Northern Ireland, Finally, this year also marks the centenary of the not least the tremendous quality of life there. Only last maiden voyage of the RMS Titanic. It is impossible to week, a survey found that people in Northern Ireland understate the strength of the iconic Titanic brand. are the happiest people in the United Kingdom. I am From San Diego to Singapore, everyone has heard of pleased that DUP Members are taking their lead from the famous vessel, but how many people know that she my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and smiling was built in Belfast? As the locals have been known to today, reflecting the sunny disposition for which they remark, “The boat was fine when it left Belfast.” I know are well known. While I am on the subject of humour, I that the Executive at Stormont are working hard to should pay tribute to that other Carson, Frank, who ensure that people feel the full benefit of this significant sadly died last month. He put Northern Ireland on the anniversary. I urge the Government to work closely map for all the right reasons during some difficult times. with the devolved Administration in that regard. In the major events that are to take place in Northern Edmund Burke said: Ireland during 2012-13, we have an opportunity to “People will not look forward to posterity who never look reflect on how far we have come in recent years, how we backward to their ancestors.” can capitalise on that and how we can build on the This year, we pause to look back in thankful remembrance remarkable international good will that Northern Ireland at all that our ancestors and earlier generations achieved, enjoys. In that context, I pay tribute to the contribution but we do so with a resolute determination to build on made by successive US and Irish Administrations and a the inheritance bequeathed to us. I hope that posterity number of key individuals, without whom much of the will record 2012 as a year of even greater progress in progress made might not have been possible. Northern Ireland. I commend the motion to the House. Let us not forget just how dramatic that progress has been. When I first entered the House, debates Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I inform the about Northern Ireland were still dominated by security- House that Mr Speaker has not selected the amendment. related issues or the latest crisis in the peace process. Decommissioning, alleged breaches of the ceasefires, suspensions of the Assembly, the postponement of 2.56 pm elections and emergency legislation were the main Northern The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Ireland issues that came before the House. Now, we Paterson): I congratulate the Democratic Unionist party have stable, functioning and inclusive political institutions. on its choice of the motion for today’s debate. As ever, it Responsibility for delivering the key public services is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South rests in local hands and Northern Ireland is viewed Antrim (Dr McCrea), who spoke with his customary across the world as an example of hope rather than eloquence and passion for Northern Ireland. I entirely despair. I pay tribute to politicians from all parties, both endorse his comments about the six soldiers who have here and in Northern Ireland, for their efforts to ensure been killed in Afghanistan today. that that process of building stability and reconciliation Before I continue, I apologise to the House that I continues. shall have to miss some of the debate. Shortly after my With that hard-won political stability, we now have to speech, I have to attend a meeting of the ministerial focus even more resolutely on the challenges ahead, in working group on rebalancing the Northern Ireland particular rebalancing the economy and overcoming economy under the chairmanship of my hon. Friend community division to build a genuinely shared future. the Exchequer Secretary. I know that the House debated I shall briefly say a word about each of those. that issue last week, when I was unavoidably absent due We all know that the Northern Ireland economy is to a long-planned public meeting in my constituency. I too dependent on public spending—even the hon. Member have been going to Northern Ireland and visiting businesses for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) might agree. We understand nearly every week for almost five years, and have the historical reasons why that is the case, but it is not campaigned to put rebalancing the Northern Ireland sustainable. We have to revive the private sector to economy right at the top of the political agenda. That secure sustainable jobs and prosperity for the future. We became a firm commitment in the Conservative party shall discuss how to do that in the meeting that I am 889 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 890 Ireland Ireland [Mr Owen Paterson] tackled—we cannot have a society in which everything is carved up on sectarian grounds—and most of the about to attend at the Treasury. One matter under powers to tackle the problem rest with the Executive. consideration is the possibility of giving the Executive We acknowledge the steps that they have taken so far, the power to vary the rate of corporation tax in Northern and we will support them when they have to take Ireland. difficult decisions in the future. As I have said time and again, Northern Ireland has I acknowledge that in a society that has been beset by some truly world-class companies, including Wrightbus, deep-seated division, none of that work is easy and it which is delivering the new Routemaster bus for London, will take time. However, if we are to change the long-term F. G. Wilson, Norbrook and Randox, to name but a perceptions of Northern Ireland we must, in the words few; and let us not forget world-renowned Northern of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, work to Ireland brands such as Bushmills. Northern Ireland build a also has a growing reputation for the quality of our “shared future; not a shared out future.” creative industries. The hugely successful “Game of For many people, the events that we have lined up over Thrones” is filmed in Belfast, and Northern Ireland’s the coming years will cast Northern Ireland in a completely latest Oscar winner is Terry George, for his short film different light. I shall briefly mention two of them. “The Shore”. There are bands such as Snow Patrol, which provided the soundtrack for the brilliant video First, the House has just presented an Humble Address that helped Londonderry to win the right to be UK city to Her Majesty the Queen marking her diamond jubilee, of culture next year, and who can forget the buzz which will be celebrated across the United Kingdom, around the MTV awards at the Odyssey in Belfast last including in Northern Ireland. As the hugely successful November? visit to the Republic of Ireland last May demonstrated, Her Majesty is hugely admired and held in great affection We have some great companies, some great brands throughout these islands. My right hon. Friend the and some dynamic sectors, but we need more of them, Prime Minister rightly referred to her at the weekend as so the Government will do everything we can to create “our magnificent Queen”, and I want everybody in the conditions for the private sector in Northern Ireland Northern Ireland who wants to participate to have the to grow, and we will support the Executive in the areas opportunity to do so, be it through a street party, that are devolved to it. One example of where we can lighting beacons or planting trees. work very closely together is in our efforts to secure foreign direct investment. My right hon. Friend the Last November, I joined Her Royal Highness the Minister of State recently joined forces with the Northern Princess Royal at the Northern Ireland launch of the Ireland Enterprise Minister on a trip to the Gulf. I trust Woodland Trust’s jubilee woods project in Carrickfergus. that that will be one of many joint initiatives in pursuit I also recently met the Lord Mayor of Belfast and of our shared objective of building a new, dynamic, discussed a number of matters, including arrangements 21st-century, private enterprise-led economy, rather than for the jubilee. I acknowledge the constructive and one based on unsustainable public spending and debt. positive way in which politicians and parties from across the community, such as those on Belfast city council, One of the sectors where huge potential remains is have approached the issue. I hope it is a sign of how far tourism. Northern Ireland is a place of outstanding we have moved on in Northern Ireland that one can be natural beauty, from the Giant’s Causeway right across generous and respectful towards other traditions without to the Fermanagh lakes. We have some world-class in any way undermining one’s own beliefs. That has attractions, from Derry’s walls to the new Titanic project been seen recently in attendance at sporting events, for in Belfast. As the motion reminds us, next month will be example. Last month, the First Minister attended a the centenary of the tragic sinking of the Titanic, and Gaelic Athletic Association match, and this week the the eyes of the world will be upon Northern Ireland. Deputy First Minister was at the home of Northern The eyes of the world were also on Northern Ireland Ireland football, Windsor Park. Those events are not in this week, when Rory McIlroy became officially the themselves particularly significant on this side of the world’s No. 1 golfer—a magnificent achievement. Northern Irish sea, but in Northern Ireland they are of enormous Ireland is the golfing capital of not just the UK but the symbolism and evidence of progress. world, as the Irish Open at Portrush will reinforce. Let The motion also mentions the centenary of the Ulster us hope that we can use it as a launch pad to get the covenant, which falls in September. The catalyst for the British Open to Northern Ireland soon—we should all covenant was the introduction in this House 100 years campaign together for that. In the week before Cheltenham, ago next month of the Government of Ireland Bill or, let us not forget Tony McCoy, champion jockey for as it is more commonly known, the third Home Rule 16 incredible years. Northern Ireland is now being Bill. The passions that it generated are well known, and energetically promoted in overseas markets through the my own party played no small part in the parliamentary agency of Tourism Ireland, a happy example of and constitutional battles from 1912 to 1914. The task co-operation with the Administration in the south for for this generation is to mark centenaries such as that of mutual benefit. the covenant in a way that is respectful and promotes a The second area where we really need to see solid broader understanding of events, such as the fact that progress in Northern Ireland is the building of a shared of the 470,000 signatures on the covenant, some 30,000 were future. According to one report, the costs of division, from what is now the Republic of Ireland. To that end, be it segregation or the duplication of services, amount the Government have been working closely with the to a massive £1.5 billion, and there are 85,000 empty Northern Ireland Executive and the Irish Government school places. It is encouraging that the First Minister on adopting a co-ordinated approach to the covenant and the Education Minister agree that that cannot go and other centenaries to follow in the next decade. On on. In the new Northern Ireland, those issues have to be Monday, we shall launch an exhibition in Westminster 891 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 892 Ireland Ireland Hall to mark the centenary of the third Home Rule Bill, knew that. I was somewhat surprised in last week’s and we very much hope the exhibition will be able to Prime Minister’s questions that the Prime Minister thought travel to Dublin and Stormont. otherwise. I recommend that he attends some of the The issues that we are discussing are hugely important DUP’s parliamentary parties. He will find out that there to the future of every single person in Northern Ireland. is humour every day of every week of every month of As the motion makes clear, Northern Ireland has changed every year. I understand that some correspondence is for the better. The events to which it refers, which I have winging its way to him as we speak to ensure that he touched upon this afternoon, will go a long way towards knows and acknowledges the type of humour that we changing perceptions. However, as I have made clear, have all expressed in the past 20 or 30 years, even in the there are still significant challenges ahead if we are to darkest days. build a truly peaceful, stable and prosperous Northern Ireland in which everyone has a shared future. The Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Does my Government, working with the Executive, will do everything hon. Friend agree that perhaps the Prime Minister was in their power to meet those challenges. In that spirit, I not aware of the happiness in the DUP because he and once again commend the hon. Member for South Antrim some of his colleagues have spent the past number of and his party for the motion, which we strongly welcome. years flirting and conniving with the Ulster Unionist party? Perhaps some of that has rubbed off and caused a perception that all Ulster politicians and all Unionists 3.9 pm are somehow dour and miserable, whereas that applies Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): I to only one section of the Ulster Unionist party. concur with the motion and the comments made so far: 2012 will be a significant year for the communities in Mr Campbell: “More tea, vicar?” as they say in the Northern Ireland. I note with interest the Secretary of best circles, as we move swiftly on. However, I concur State’s comments about several productive and beneficial with my right hon. Friend. events, and his recommendation of wider participation As we look forward, particularly over the next two to in them, but I raise a point of concern about that. It is three years, we see important landmark decisions and unfortunate that Conservative and Labour participation historical events that need to be commemorated. In in this debate is not as wide as the participation in this recent years, monumental and historically significant year’s events that he recommends to the people of events came and went without advantage being taken of Northern Ireland. Hopefully, lack of Conservative and them to ensure that Northern Ireland plc benefited Labour participation will be remedied in the coming from them. We must not make that mistake this year or weeks and months. next. I therefore commend my friend in the Northern My hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim Ireland Assembly, Arlene Foster, the Minister for Enterprise, (Dr McCrea) outlined a series of events that are to be Trade and Investment, for marketing this year and celebrated this year. The covenant is of considerable emphasising that Northern Ireland is the place to be. historical and cultural interest across the community. We need to ensure that the rest of the world sees—hopefully People want to be able to look back at, recommend and they will see it during the Irish Open—the marvellous, acknowledge the origins of the state of Northern Ireland, fantastic scenery on the north coast, the golfing that is which many trace back to 1912 and the signing of the beyond compare, which is why we get so many champions, covenant. and the culture of Northern Ireland. The world needs to come to Northern Ireland, and I The Titanic and other matters that are signally important am glad that the Minister of State has said that on to Northern Ireland’s tourism infrastructure have already previous occasions in the House. We need to drive the been mentioned, as has the golfing greatness of Rory message home to ensure that the whole United Kingdom McIlroy, and of Graeme McDowell and Darren Clarke will benefit. We are approaching the Olympics, in which from my constituency. It would appear that Portrush is the entire nation will participate. I hope that there will now the golfing capital of the world. I hope that that be medal winners from Northern Ireland. Many people will be case not just in the Irish Open this year, but in have suggested that that will be the case particularly in the preparations for the Open in a few years. boxing. I do not know why fighting seems to bring out I emphasise that 2012 is a year of preparation as well the best in Northern Ireland, but it does. The boxing as commemoration. We are beginning a decade of regime seems to deliver medal winners. commemorating centenaries. Up to 2021, we have a series of commemorations in which to participate and Dr McCrea: Does my hon. Friend agree that the to acknowledge. I concur with all those who have said warmth of the welcome that visitors will receive in that the commemorations should be inclusive so that Northern Ireland is beyond compare? Will he also everyone can enjoy and celebrate. Many preparations acknowledge that when people come to the Olympics have been made to ensure that that happens. and to London, which will be the focal point, it is vital We are also preparing for next year, when Londonderry that they are encouraged to cross to Northern Ireland will be the first UK city of culture. In the next few to see the beauty of our Province? months, there will be considerable interest and work to ensure that it becomes the template for all the others Mr Campbell: I thank my hon. Friend for that. As he that follow. We have a small window of opportunity in represents the constituency where Belfast international which to prepare and organise to ensure that world sees airport is, I expect him to ensure that the red carpet is what we all know is the case. Last week, my right hon. rolled out as people arrive. Friend the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) Many Departments in Northern Ireland are preparing alluded to the survey that shows that Northern Ireland for the various commemorations. Of course, like every is the happiest region of the United Kingdom. We all other part of the United Kingdom, we are hamstrung 893 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 894 Ireland Ireland [Mr Gregory Campbell] members of both groups are still involved in unsanctioned violent activity. On a larger political scale, normality is to some extent because of the austere times. None the slowly but surely emerging. Last year, the Northern less, they must not prevent us from marking and marketing Ireland Executive published its programme for government. the events so that the people of Northern Ireland benefit. As the First Minister, Peter Robinson, has said, it is a I not only pay tribute to those who are preparing for statement that Northern Ireland is prepared for the the events, but point out to the rest of the United future, prepared to modernise and reform, and ready to Kingdom and Members who represent constituencies move forward as one community. in England, Scotland and Wales that a good, peaceful, Looking to the future, the security situation is a progressive and prosperous Northern Ireland is in the challenge facing Northern Ireland, but the economy is a interests of the United Kingdom. Just as we have exported challenge facing Northern Ireland and Britain as a many of our sports people and produced many engineers whole. The UK Government and the Northern Ireland and inventors who have taken their expertise to an Executive are taking steps to improve the situation. As international level, we want to participate in the life of hon. Members will know, the coalition Government the nation, so that Northern Ireland’s place is secure have delivered on a commitment they made to consult not only in the United Kingdom but in UK history and on rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy. As the for future generations. Secretary of State has just said, the ministerial working group on rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy 3.18 pm met at the end of last year and will do so again today. Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): First, That cross-departmental approach is most welcome I echo the comments of the hon. Member for South and has been praised by the First Minister and the Antrim (Dr McCrea) about the tragic events in Afghanistan Deputy First Minister. in the past 24 hours and the six servicemen killed in Tourism will play a crucial part in rebalancing the action. Their service and their sacrifice is an inspiration Northern Ireland economy. Northern Irish business is to us all. set to benefit this year in particular because of the I congratulate the Democratic Unionist party on Olympic games, including to the tune of £18 million securing this most welcome debate. It is timely to have from games-related contracts alone. That is why I also such a debate. As the motion suggests, it is indeed a welcome the announcement in January this year that momentous year for Northern Ireland, with the diamond Arlene Foster, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and jubilee, the Olympics, the 100th anniversary of the Investment, who has responsibility for tourism, had Titanic disaster and, of course, the same anniversary reallocated £3.5 million from her Department’s budget for the signing of the Ulster covenant and declaration. to prioritise the promotion of tourism this year. Along with other hon. Members, I hope for a successful year It is my pleasure to serve on the Select Committee on for Northern Ireland tourism this year while the eyes of Northern Ireland Affairs. The Committee has visited the world are focused on Great Britain and Northern Northern Ireland on many occasions in the past 18 months, Ireland. which I have found fascinating. For somebody who first became active in politics in the time of the troubles, it is This year begins a decade of commemorations for remarkable to see what has been achieved and what Northern Ireland and we should of course look forward progress has been made since the Good Friday agreement to them, but, as the Secretary of State has said, we must in 1998. not be complacent and must remain vigilant. Let us remember that the dissidents have virtually no local Although fantastic progress has been made and although support and that all the political parties are united I am in complete support of the Democratic Unionist against them. Long may that continue. party motion, it would be naive at best to ignore the ongoing challenges of the security situation in Northern I am in full support of the DUP motion. From my Ireland. Let us be clear that although we all want to own experience, I know the Province to be a wonderful promote Northern Ireland’s economy, tourism and future, place to visit. It is steeped in history and its friendly the threat level remains at severe. The fact remains that people have aspirations and hope for the future. One of there have been 13 separate attacks against national my closest and oldest friends in my constituency is a security targets, and the intent and capability of former councillor called David Bell, who is from Bangor. organisations such as the Real IRA, Continuity IRA He was very helpful when I joined the Northern Ireland and others remains malevolent. Affairs Committee in explaining some of the complexity and history of Northern Ireland politics, which I have Furthermore, it is impossible to engage in dialogue found very useful. with dissident organisations that show no signs of renouncing their violent or criminal ways. The Secretary We must accept that there are challenges with the of State has made it clear on many occasions in this ongoing security situation, political progress and rebalancing House that the British Government will never compromise the economy, but, as the motion states, this year of on the security of our citizens in Northern Ireland, and commemoration and celebration should be the catalyst I pay tribute to the work that he and the Minister are to realising the aspirations held by so many. doing to ensure that our citizens are protected, and to the security services, the police force and everybody 3.23 pm involved on the ground. Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): I am happy to join my Improvements are being made. There were fewer regional colleagues in extolling the virtues and wonderful attacks in 2011 than in 2010 and I hope that trend will attractions of the region that we represent and that we continue. Another positive is that both the leaderships are all very happy to call home. When I listen to them, I of the Ulster Defence Association and Ulster Volunteer am conscious of the need for us all to have a constantly Force remain committed to their ceasefires, albeit that happy deportment—there is an onus on us to go about 895 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 896 Ireland Ireland this place with the demeanour of Aer Lingus cabin Budget, we encourage the Minister to suggest to the crew, smiling at everything we meet. That was hard to Chancellor that it would be timely to consider giving sustain during my many long hours on the Financial the tourism sector, not just in Northern Ireland but Services Public Bill Committee yesterday. everywhere in the UK, a boost through targeted relief The Social Democratic and Labour party tabled an on VAT rates. That was used very successfully in the amendment to the motion not because we disagree with south of Ireland last year and this year, and has been the thrust of it—it recognises the significance of the used in other parts of Europe as well. It is entirely opportunity that 2012 represents for Northern Ireland—but consistent with EU rules and would be a good way of because we believe other points could have been made. I encouraging people to holiday at home. Unlike wider do not wish to dwell on this, but parts of the motion are VAT reductions, it would trap the multiplier in our own perhaps gratuitously partial for some of us and could economy by benefiting a home sector instead of paying have been left out. SDLP Members wanted to make the for imports. We want to do that because it would motion a little less exclusive to Northern Ireland by support tourism more widely. dealing with the tourism and hospitality sectors more generally, and to make it a little less exclusive within Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): The hon. Northern Ireland by ensuring some of its narrower and Gentleman alluded to the fact that Members from the more partial references were not included. Democratic Unionist party fully support his suggestion Nevertheless, I have no umbrage to take with points about what the Government should consider in the that have been made by honourable colleagues from the run-up to the Budget. There is no doubt that in terms of Democratic Unionist party on the events that we will wins in the Northern Ireland economy and boosting mark this year and in coming years. We must also deal employment, tourism is one sector where relatively rapid with the inter-meshing and layering of those events, progress can be made, and targeted interventions, as he hopefully in a spirit of purposeful inquiry, which is one suggests, would be extremely helpful. of the terms used in the context of Derry’s bid for UK city of culture in respect of dealing with the past, Mark Durkan: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for including the recent past. We should acknowledge those that intervention. Of course, many in the media say that issues up front, deal with them in a spirit of purposeful more people are likely to holiday in the eurozone this inquiry, and engage visitors in that regard. year because of the weakness of the euro, which is an As we commemorate, we need to remember that, in added reason there should be a timely intervention the next decade, we will have not only a series of from the Chancellor—to encourage people to holiday centenary anniversaries, but significant half-centenary here within the sterling zone. anniversaries, which might be a lot more sensitive. We The changed perceptions of Northern Ireland are must manage all of them positively. We should handle welcome but have been hard-earned and hard-won. the past sensitively—our commemorations should not They are a result of the changed context created by make potential visitors sensitive, wary or inhibited about many political efforts over the past few years. I am coming to any part of Northern Ireland. One great certainly proud of the role that my party has played in benefit of the 2012 promotion is that it has been fully consistently opposing violence from any quarter and embraced and well marketed by Tourism Ireland as well standing up for shared institutions and political as by the tourism industry in Northern Ireland, which is arrangements within Northern Ireland, within Ireland very much behind that effort. We saw that in recent and between these islands. That, of course, has been events in London—a very good event took place in vindicated in what we now see working so well. Many of St James’s palace. A team of devolved Ministers was the naysayers and detractors—those who were totally there, including the First Minister, the Deputy First opposed and said that it would or could never happen—are Minister and the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and now among those happily showing how well it works Investment. That wide representation was important and doing so well. It is great to see that proof and and positive. vindication, although some of us, of course, have learned Rather than just ensuring that we have positive events that vindication in politics does not always translate that people who already know Northern Ireland and into reward, but so be it—we have learned to empathise are from Northern Ireland can celebrate positively, it is with the prodigal son’s brother and get over it. important that we get much more market reach. That is This is an important time for Northern Ireland. The why this year is so important. It is not that it is the only hon. Member for East Derry—I mean East Londonderry year that people should come to Northern Ireland, but (Mr Campbell) before he corrects me—made this point it is the year when people most wake up to the fact that not just about 2012 but about 2013 and beyond. In they should come. I have no doubt that anybody who 2013, my city will be the designated city of culture in the comes this year will come back and make many repeat UK. Furthermore, some of the efforts building up to visits. that, including marking its successor role in the cultural It is important to ensure that people coming to the Olympiad, will take place this year. It is important, island of Ireland from any part of the world ensure that therefore, that we see 2012 not just as a stand-alone they experience the benefits of the whole island. In the occasion but as part of a platform or springboard into past, many tourists to the south did not trickle over the the future. border to the north, as they should. We want to ensure It is important, if we are to attract tourists, that we that in the now more benign context people are given offer them not just value for money but value for time, every encouragement to do that. which the tourism and hospitality sector in Northern My party’s amendment on the VAT issue was not Ireland has increasingly been developing—and has had selected, but we previously tabled an early-day motion to develop. In the past, there have been questions about that has the support of all parties. In the build-up to the whether visitors have had value for time. The Sunday 897 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 898 Ireland Ireland [Mark Durkan] Her Majesty and everyone associated with her remarks and gestures at that time, but to the previous President problem has raised questions about what experiences of Ireland, Mary McAleese, and her husband, Martin, and opportunities visitors have had, and in some cases, for all the great work they did to improve not just there has even been the Monday problem, because some relations between these islands, but relations within the visitor amenities are not open on Mondays. island. That work was all solid investment in ensuring We have to do more. We have to invest in our attractions that perceptions of Northern Ireland would change and and distractions for visitors, if we are to maximise the that our perceptions in Northern Ireland of each other extraction of money, which is what we need out of and of our place would also change. tourism. There is more for different Departments to In that context, I have no hesitation in accepting the do—it is not just the job of the Department of Enterprise, overall, underlying point of the motion, which is about Trade and Investment in Northern Ireland, and there is the tourism drive and the welcome to visitors. I appreciate not just the Chancellor’s role in respect of VAT; there is that there might not be a big attendance in the Chamber; also a role for other Departments and local councils. indeed, I should put on record the fact that other Members are used to hearing Northern Ireland Members Northern Ireland Members are conflicted, because we plead that we are a special case because we are at the have an “Upstairs, Downstairs” situation in this place bottom of so many of the wrong league tables and so today. The Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs need special derogations and exemptions. In many instances, is currently meeting upstairs, so before someone starts that will be true and valid for particular sectors, sections twittering to the “Nolan” show or somewhere else asking, and interests in our community, but it is also important “Where were these people?”, I should point out that to recognise that increasingly sectors, industries and Members are conflicted and compromised, with some locations in Northern Ireland are getting to the top of caught there and unable to be here. the right tables, and not just in sports or whatever. Those who tire of us in Northern Ireland getting When I listened to the hon. Member for South Antrim together to lobby for our special case may have an (Dr McCrea) refer to the range of sporting achievements opportunity today to recognise that we have been able in Northern Ireland, I was reminded of a time when, as to get together to sell our special place through tourism. Deputy First Minister, I was going into the Assembly However, tourism and our visitor attractions are not the for questions. A civil servant came up to me hastily and only things we have to offer. In terms of industry, sport, said, “Great news! You get to announce this!” I was and academic and research achievement, Northern Ireland then given a note that told me that I could announce to is moving ahead. It is surfing all the opportunities the Chamber that Northern Ireland had just won a gold available to it, in the context of Europe and the wider medal in the Commonwealth games—for shooting. I island of Ireland, and maximising those opportunities was somewhat reluctant to go in with that news, and that arise from its being well placed within these islands when hon. Members are talking about boxing and other to gain things in the United Kingdom context and things, one can understand my trepidation. maximise things in an Irish context. It is in that spirit that, although I have cautioned the House about certain I do not want to appear to avoid what the motion parts of the motion, I do not want that to eclipse the says about the Queen’s diamond jubilee, because the underlying endorsement of the worth of Northern Ireland wrong thing might be read into it if I did. I have as a place to go in 2012, and not just this year, but many mentioned that I served as Deputy First Minister, some more years thereafter. 10 years ago. When the Queen visited the south last year, I was reminded that during that time I became the first nationalist Minister on the island of Ireland officially 3.39 pm to receive the Queen on the island, when, as Deputy David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): I rise to First Minister, I officially received her during the Stormont speak in support of the motion tabled in my name and part of her jubilee tour. I am not British; I am not a those of my colleagues in the Democratic Unionist Unionist, a monarchist or a royalist. However, I respect party. The motion unashamedly blows the trumpet and any Head of State, and I particularly respect someone beats the drum for Northern Ireland, and we are well who is valued and esteemed by so many people, including known for beating the drum there. I was raised in a my fellow countrymen. In that context, I have no issue house in which, unless we could beat or put up a with respecting others. We have to learn the ethic of Lambeg drum, we knew nothing. That was when I was respect and being respected, and that acknowledging a small boy. I have grown slightly since then—[HON. other people’s loyalties and affinities does not compromise MEMBERS: “Upwardly or outwardly?”] In more ways the integrity of one’s own. Not only is the way in which than one. It was a great childhood and a great part of we can share, appreciate and celebrate each other’s my life and my culture. beliefs and values together better for us; it also makes us Of course we on these Benches would say that Northern a more attractive and comfortable place for visitors to Ireland was the best place on earth, and that the greatest come and engage in. people in the world were those from Northern Ireland. I just hope that, in recognising that, people recognise Our motion announces to the world that Northern that there are other views, sensitivities, outlooks and Ireland is open for business, and invites the world in its affinities in Northern Ireland, and that people should entirety to come along and join us. Whether they want not always make sweeping presumptions. I hope that history, culture, performing arts, spectacular scenery, everyone currently involved in the institutions in Northern activity holidays, sporting holidays or just lazy day Ireland can find comfortable ways of accommodating holidays—which would suit me very well—there is each other and showing mutual respect in an appropriate something for everyone, and it is all served up by the way. That was helped greatly by the manner of the people with the warmest hearts and the warmest welcome Queen’s visit last year. All credit should go not just to to be found anywhere. 899 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 900 Ireland Ireland It is a tradition in homes in Northern Ireland—as it a joy deep down in the hearts of the people of Northern might be in the rest of the United Kingdom—that the Ireland—and we are very glad to represent them in this kettle is put on as soon as someone enters the house, mother of all Parliaments. and they are given a cup of tea. I am well used to that in Northern Ireland is not yet at the end of the journey. my constituency. When I visit all the old ladies that I There is no doubt that we have come a long way in have to talk too, the buns are put on the table— recent years. Just 10 years ago, the Province was a very different place and was in a different situation as the Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Ah, it’s the buns Assembly lurched from one suspension to another. Public yougofor! confidence in the political structures was low, while public uncertainty about the future of Northern Ireland David Simpson: That is my excuse for what I might was high. The last 10 years have seen very significant call my slim physique. change and positive progress—so much so that a recent Northern Ireland Life and Times survey showed 73% of Mr Dodds: Does my hon. Friend agree that he is the the community favouring Northern Ireland’s remaining living embodiment of the theory that it is not always the in the United Kingdom. That figure included a slim case that Ulster says no? majority of the Roman Catholic community, which is encouraging. David Simpson: Absolutely. I was brought up in the It is not over-egging the pudding too much to suggest country, and my background is in the meat industry, so that such has been the progress made in recent years I believe that I should be a good advertisement for that that Northern Ireland is more settled in this United industry. Also, I have to say that it took a lot of money Kingdom at present than Scotland is. Perhaps what is to put this physique in place, and it would be a shame to needed in Scotland is a second flank of Democratic lose it. Unionist party MPs, so that we could help the Scots to We also have the best golfers in the world, and a good maintain their stand. That might not be a bad idea, and few of the best golf courses as well. We produced the it is worth looking at. After all—here I go into a history greatest footballer that ever lived, and the greatest ship lesson—King Fergus had the old kingdom of Dalriada, that ever sailed. We helped to build America and gave it which eventually united the Scots under Kenneth McAlpin, many of its Presidents, including Andrew Jackson, whose and gave the land its name; while St Columba and his family originates from my constituency, Ulysses S. Grant, successors in the old Celtic Church gave it its heart, its Theodore Roosevelt and Bill Clinton. We also gave it vision and its passion. Richard Nixon, but we will move on pretty quickly. As part of the generation that grew up amid all the John Dunlap, who printed the American declaration of troubles that we have come through, I can look back to independence, was also from our shores. very dark days. Like many people in Northern Ireland, I can look back to days when members of my own family Jim Shannon: My hon. Friend will be aware that we circle were killed during those years. I can also look also gave America hillbilly music, which came from the back over more recent years and trace the progress that hills of County Antrim. That country-style music swept has been made; and I can lift my eyes and look around across all the southern states of America. I think that me at the situation in the Province today and look Elvis Presley’s ancestors also came from Northern Ireland. forward to days yet to come. I can see the path and the upward curve that we are on. David Simpson: I was trying to avoid mentioning the Turning to wider issues, I am pleased to say that fact that hillbilly music originated in Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland has had many sporting heroes down but it is certainly part of the legacy of the Ulster Scots, through the years, and we have already heard about and I will allow my hon. Friend to deal with that side of many of them today. For example, Kennedy Kane things, although I trust that he will not try to sing. McArthur won the Olympic marathon 100 years ago in Joseph Scriven, from Banbridge in my constituency, 1912. I have two gold medal winners from the gave the world one of the sweetest hymns in the English Commonwealth games in my constituency—as one hon. language when he wrote “What a friend we have in Member mentioned, they won their gold medals for Jesus”. We have produced great inventors, too—Harry shooting. We also have Dame Mary Peters, who went to Ferguson, who produced the Ferguson tractors that can school in my constituency, and still comes to the be seen all over the world; and Frank Pantridge, who constituency to get her hair done. invented the portable heart defibrillator, which saves thousands of lives across the world each year. Jim Shannon: Not at the same place as you. We heard about other contributions at a recent Prime Minister’s Question Time. The Prime Minister was asked David Simpson: Not at the same place as me. about Northern Ireland’s ranking and whether Northern When Dame Mary Peters won the gold medal I was Ireland had the happiest people in the United Kingdom. still at school, and I remember walking down the street He did not seem to think it applied to us; I do not know in one of the towns in my constituency, Portadown, why. One of my honourable colleagues—he is no longer alongside the car. Like my hon. Friend the Member for in the Chamber—mentioned the Social Democratic South Antrim (Dr McCrea), I also remember the and Labour party. I do not know why he did, but I see celebrations for the Queen’s silver jubilee which took that SDLP Members are smiling today, so things are place throughout Northern Ireland. I have to say that looking up. my hon. Friend goes back a bit further than I do, and Let me assure right hon. and hon. Members that, that I certainly did not take up the challenge to dress in although it sometimes seems that we in Northern Ireland a sailor suit. I do not think that my hon. Friend will live have the worries of the world on our shoulders, there is that one down for a day or two. 901 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 902 Ireland Ireland [David Simpson] When Her Majesty addressed Parliament on 4 May 1977 at the time of her silver jubilee, she said: Other people have already been mentioned, but I “I cannot forget that I was crowned Queen of the United think it is worth mentioning them again. We have Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Perhaps this had great legends like Joey Dunlop, who won five jubilee is a time to remind ourselves of the benefits which Union consecutive motorcycle TT Formula 1 world titles in the has conferred, at home and in our international dealings, on the 1980s. We have also had many boxing champions down inhabitants of all parts of this United Kingdom. A jubilee is also the years, and I know that many in the next generation a time to look forward. We should certainly do this with determination, will be as good as the greats that we have had in the and I believe we can also do so with hope.” past. More recently, our very own transatlantic rower, As representatives from Northern Ireland, we, too, cannot Kate Richardson, who comes from my constituency, set forget that she was crowned Queen of the United Kingdom the world record as part of the Row For Freedom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We want to take challenge. What a great event that was. this opportunity to wish Her Majesty a joyous year of jubilee, and many more years yet to come, and to assure This year, Northern Ireland is the capital of the her of a warm welcome in our part of the United Kingdom. world when it comes to golf. Who would have thought five or 10 years ago that we would have the world’s number one golfer in the Province? All three who have Mr Dodds: My hon. Friend refers to Her Majesty’s recently won championships are great ambassadors for forthcoming visit to Northern Ireland, and various the whole Province, and for all the people of Northern Members have mentioned visits that the Queen will pay Ireland as well. to their constituencies. Those visits are generally known about; they have been publicised and preparations have That brings me to the wider elements of the motion, been made. However, although we must be conscious of which refers to the anniversaries and events that are the security issues, does my hon. Friend agree that as sprinkled throughout 2012. The Olympics will be a much notice as possible of Her Majesty’s visits should showcase for London, but—as other Members have be given, so that everyone knows about her itinerary requested—they should be for the whole United and can celebrate? Kingdom as well. The world will descend on London for this, the greatest sporting show on earth, and it is vital for there to be a legacy: for London, of course, David Simpson: I entirely agree. We understand that because that is where it is being held, but also for the there are security issues, but, in this year, it is important whole United Kingdom. I urge the Government to that as much notice as possible is given to the communities ensure that that happens. that Her Majesty will visit. People want to come out and see her when she visits Northern Ireland, so that This year is also the centenary of the sinking of the they can express their loyalty and the love that they have Titanic and the signing of the Ulster covenant. The for her. She has been a unique monarch in many ways. maiden voyage and sinking of the Titanic gave birth to The royal family is sometimes given a hard time by the a legend that has held a fascination for the world ever press, but the Queen has been a wonderful exemplar of since, and the new signature Titanic project in Belfast the office she holds on behalf of all the people of this promises to be a world-class project that will not only United Kingdom. fascinate but attract visitors to Northern Ireland from all over the world. We are looking forward to welcoming Her Majesty to Northern Ireland. In my constituency, many street parties The sinking of the Titanic gave birth to an enduring are planned. We have to put up with so much nonsense, legend, but the signing of the covenant in many ways however. I have read in the press that we will have to get helped to give birth to Northern Ireland itself; but not approval from the health and safety people before we before the flower of Ulster was cut down amid the mud can put up bannerettes and so forth. Things have gone and the death of the Somme and elsewhere. They died beyond what is common sense, but the celebrations will in their tens of thousands. Many who had signed the happen. I know that celebrations are planned right covenant volunteered and died in those fields of France. across the three towns of Lurgan, Portadown and To many today, sadly, they are but names on some Banbridge that I represent and in other parts of the historic document, but they are sons and husbands who 200 square miles of my constituency. We are looking were never to return home again, and those who were forward to having a wonderful time, and we wish Her lost were mourned: they were mourned in every parish, Majesty well. I note that, as someone mentioned earlier, every village and every hamlet throughout Northern Queen Victoria is the only monarch who has reigned for Ireland. longer, but I think Her Majesty will overtake Queen Victoria’s reign. We hope, trust and pray that she does. Also, of course, this year we will celebrate the diamond jubilee of the reign of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. I know that my constituents were proud to be part of What a monarch she has been! I had the privilege of this United Kingdom when they returned me at the last meeting Her Majesty when she paid a visit to my election. My constituency is the second largest constituency. It was a remarkable time for me and my manufacturing base in Northern Ireland outside Belfast. wife. I remember that we attended an exhibition in In Northern Ireland questions today, I spoke about the the town of Banbridge in County Down. Her Majesty investments that have been made in my constituency, and Prince Philip were walking around the exhibition, one of which is a £13 million investment at one site in and when they came to a display that was termed Portadown by Asda. Many other investments are pending “abstract art”, Her Majesty looked at me and asked, and we look forward to good days in Northern Ireland. “What is that?” I replied, “YourMajesty, you’re probably I believe there are good days ahead. Yes, we have wiser than me.” We did not have a clue what it was—but dissidents who do not seem able to live without the it attracted a lot of people to the art gallery. troubles and who just want to drag us back to the bad 903 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 904 Ireland Ireland old days, but the Unionist people and others stood fast Notwithstanding the story about the little sailor, against the Provisional IRA and won the day, and we which will stay with many of us for a long time, the hon. will continue to do that. Yes, we have lost a lot of good Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea) was right to friends and a lot of people who were tragically taken by remind us today of all days, when we heard the news the bomb and the bullet, but we want to leave a legacy about the six soldiers, that we should remember all the in Northern Ireland for those people who put on the victims in Northern Ireland over the last few years. uniform of the Crown forces. I can say in this House The hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) without any contradiction that when it has come to is not in the Chamber. He said that we should all—not donning the uniform of the Crown forces, our young just the Northern Ireland parties—encourage the broadest men and women have never been found wanting. We participation in these debates. That is important and it supported the Crown forces in whatever situation they is incumbent on me and others to do so. I take the point found themselves in. Tragedy has hit Northern Ireland made by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan). for many years but we thank God that we are starting to We should realise that many Members, from Northern move in the proper direction. Northern Ireland is moving Ireland and elsewhere, who wanted to contribute to the on. It will take a little more time but we have come a debate are actually at a meeting of the Northern Ireland long way over a number of years. Affairs Committee. Let me end on a more political note. We Unionists I do not want to say too much about the economy, would repeat the words that Her Majesty spoke in although I have made considerable play of it over the 1977 and say that this jubilee is perhaps a time to past few months because it is extremely important. remind ourselves of the benefits of the Union. We hear Indeed, the Secretary of State talked about it in much of so much today about Scotland and the referendum, but his speech. I do not agree with the specifics of the cut in I believe that the United Kingdom is better as one, with VAT mentioned by the hon. Member for Foyle, but as no division. We have heard for many years about legacy— the Minister of State will know, the Opposition have together we stand, divided we fall. I believe that the UK called for a temporary general cut in VAT to help boost will be better staying as it is today without the nonsense domestic demand, which would help job creation in of this referendum and of Scotland being removed Northern Ireland. from the Union. I do not think the Scottish people want I congratulate the Democratic Unionist party on that, but time will tell; we will know when the so-called securing the debate. It is always good when Northern referendum takes place. I wish Her Majesty well and I Ireland matters are discussed on the Floor of the House. congratulate all my colleagues who have spoken. We I shall concentrate largely on the well chosen title of the will continue, to the best of our ability, to keep Northern debate, which welcomes the NI 2012 campaign to change Ireland moving forward. perceptions of Northern Ireland. The work of Tourism Ireland has helped enormously in that respect. 4.4 pm Many Members recently attended the fantastic event Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab): I am grateful to have at St James’s palace to launch NI 2012 in Great Britain. a few moments of the House’s time to make a contribution It was significant that both the First Minister and the to the debate, after the interesting and insightful comments Deputy First Minister and their colleagues from all we have heard from a number of Members. parties in the Executive were there to show their support. There was a real mood of optimism at that event, and a It is a privilege to hold my position. With the hon. spirit not just of hope but of expectation. The progress Member for Belfast East (Naomi Long), I have already made in Northern Ireland was noted by every speaker, visited the Titanic quarter, and with the hon. Member every performer and every guest. It was no longer a for Strangford (Jim Shannon), I saw the wonderful guarded, anxious, whispered aspiration that things would beauty of Strangford lough. I am looking forward to get better, but a confident, proud message shouted visiting South Down on Friday. aloud that things are better and getting even better, and that Northern Ireland is a great place to live, to work, Dr McCrea: I am sure the hon. Gentleman is also and in this instance to visit. looking forward to visiting the most wonderful constituency That is not to take anything for granted, and no of all—South Antrim. Member who has spoken in the debate has done so or would do so. There is a huge belief in Northern Ireland Vernon Coaker: The hon. Gentleman is ahead of me. that things which only a few years ago would have I was about to say that I was looking forward to visiting seemed impossible have been and are being done, as we all the other constituencies, but I think I shall have to continue to build a peaceful Northern Ireland. The start with the hon. Member for Upper Bann (David overwhelming majority of people in Northern Ireland Simpson) who has been persistent in his desire for me to and across Ireland and the UK have supported the visit his constituency. Now that I have heard about the political process and those who have driven it forward, tea that is available at every stop, I shall make sure to go including many in the House today. I say without fear there. However, there is a serious point. From the visits or favour to hon. Members that it is a privilege to I have made, it is abundantly clear that Northern Ireland recognise the contribution that they and others in all is a place of stunning beauty and offers much to the parts of the House have made to enable us to get to visitor. where we are today. I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his apology It is the people of Northern Ireland who make it such that he would not be in the Chamber to hear my a great place to visit. Their legendary welcome, their remarks. His point that the life of Frank Carson and his friendliness, their creativity, hard work, pride in their funeral represented all that is good about Northern community and willingness to share their beautiful Ireland was well made. region with visitors are what I have most enjoyed about 905 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 906 Ireland Ireland [Vernon Coaker] them now, as other hon. Members have done, to go and see for themselves. It is often said that perception is being the shadow Secretary of State. One of the privileges reality. The reality is that Northern Ireland is a great of holding this position is that it enables me, as I place, a changed place, and a place that wants people to said, to visit Northern Ireland regularly and see at first come and visit it. I know I speak for all my colleagues hand the vibrant dynamism of the arts and culture, when I say that we will do our very best to ensure that the spectacular scenery, the historical sites and the that becomes the perception as well. I say to everyone wonderful food and drink that make Antrim, Armagh, that it is time to put Northern Ireland firmly on the Derry, Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone the six must-visit global map. destinations for 2012. As I have promised hon. Members from Northern Ireland, I intend to visit them all myself Several hon. Members rose— over the coming months. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. I now But of course we still have to work to challenge the have to announce the result of a Division deferred from lingering stereotypes and perceptions that many outside a previous day. On the motion relating to the safety of Northern Ireland still harbour about the place. The offshore oil and gas activities, the Ayes were 308 and the remaining challenges include how we deal with the past Noes were 183, so the Question was agreed to. and legacy issues, how to maintain security, and of [The Division list is published at the end of today’s course how to overcome the continuing economic and debates.] social problems. I do not see Northern Ireland as a special case; that would be demeaning to Northern 4.15 pm Ireland, but there are certainly special circumstances that need to be recognised. Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP): On what is a sad day, 2012 promises to be an action-filled As other hon. Members have said, we are at the year. The SDLP welcomes the progress that has been beginning of a decade of commemorations that will made in the north of Ireland over the past 10 to mark important events in Irish and British history. The 15 years, of which we were very much part. We shaped motion mentions, of course, the Ulster Covenant, which the character of that progress and its development. In was a response to the third Home Rule Bill which came fact, we were particularly innovative in the political before the House 100 years ago next month. One cannot developments. help but feel aware of a great sense of history when discussing these matters in the place in which they were There has been much to celebrate in Northern Ireland, debated a century ago, and when thinking of the great particularly with regard to our sporting heroes right figures who took part in those debates and are remembered across the sporting arena, whether in rugby, athletics, as giants of Parliament, politics and state. golf or the Gaelic Athletic Association. There is much there, and we must not forget that we are talking about I know that there are many differing perspectives on a shared and inclusive society. There is much to celebrate the history of that period, but ultimately that history is in the film industry. Only two weeks ago a person from a shared one, so we can choose to use the different Northern Ireland won an Oscar for “The Shore.” Only perspectives of it to entrench division, or we can use last year the same director produced a film in Downpatrick, them to learn about history, ourselves and each other, in my constituency, called “Whole Lotta Sole”, which bring communities together in a new understanding of will have its debut later this year. That film was centred what happened in that decade, and perhaps create some on a fish and chip shop, but it was not necessarily about fresh perspectives which will help to bring about a fish. In fact, it might have had more to do with the better future in the decade ahead. I know that is the political turmoil out of which we have emerged. wish of the vast majority of people in these islands, and There has been considerable movement away from of all Members in this place. violence and conflict and towards a more peaceful and We also mark this year the diamond jubilee of Her harmonious society. We are all very glad about that and Majesty the Queen. As the House heard earlier, during want to see the institutions that emerged out of the the 60 years of her reign she has displayed tremendous Good Friday agreement and the principles that were service, great dignity, selflessness and a dedication to all laid down in the agreement fully realised. Therefore, we of the people of the United Kingdom, including those believe that the institutions should be fully functional, in Northern Ireland. Her visit to Ireland last year was that the Northern Ireland Executive should have a truly remarkable. It opened up not just a new chapter, detailed programme for government and a full programme but a new volume in British-Irish relations. I join others of legislation and that the North/South Ministerial who have done so today in paying tribute to her today, Council must become fully operational. We also believe and I know that we all look forward to her visits to that it should be cross-sectoral in its approach, by which Northern Ireland throughout this year. we mean that it should have a north-west focus, which In 2012, this year of centenaries and jubilees, we my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) celebrate all that is good about Northern Ireland. NI would welcome, and a south-east focus, which would 2012 gives us the chance to showcase all that is good accommodate the interests of my constituency of South about Northern Ireland and indeed the island of Ireland. Down and those of north County Louth. We want Northern Ireland is open for business, investment and more north-south bodies to be created, for the review of tourism, not just this year but next year, with the city of the north-south dimension to be published and for the culture in Derry-Londonderry and the world police and Irish identity to be not only recognised and acknowledged, fire games, and beyond. but given political weight. As an English MP, one of the questions I am most That brings me to the motion. We welcome the fact often asked by colleagues, friends and constituents is that the Northern Ireland 2012 campaign is intended to what Northern Ireland is like. I can confidently say to change perceptions of Northern Ireland and encourage 907 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 908 Ireland Ireland many more visitors. We want people to see the beauty of political institutions are all about: they are about moving Northern Ireland, the scenery and the attributes of the forward together. I am quite happy to give way now to people, which are already demonstrated through their the right hon. Gentleman, who I hope will be able to inventions and sporting prowess and in many other elucidate that issue. fields. However, I am a bit afraid and will be looking to the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) Mr Dodds: In an intervention, I shall not be able to and the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) to do what the hon. Lady invites me to do, as I am clarify some points for me, because it could be construed conscious of Mr Deputy Speaker, but if she feels so that the motion—how shall I say this?—focuses on a strongly about the issue, why in the amendment to single identity and is one-track or single-dimensional, which her name is attached is there no mention of any because it contains no reference to an Irish identity or issues to which she has referred or of any aspects that Irish nationalism, which is also very much part of the she has just discussed? Why, if she feels so strongly, did north of Ireland and is represented in this House by the she not table such an amendment? three SDLP Members. Mark Durkan: The singular references. Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): The events of Mr Dodds: You are relying on the hon. Member for 2012 are the events of 2012: there is the centenary of the Foyle (Mark Durkan) for the answer. Titanic, the centenary of the Ulster Covenant and the Queen’s diamond jubilee. So the motion, and its writer, Ms Ritchie: No, I would know the answer anyway; I did not dictate those dates, but does the hon. Lady do not need anybody to tell me. agree that all those events, given that they will improve The right hon. Gentleman can, however, see what we and provide opportunities to add to economic activity have clearly done. We have concentrated on the practical in Northern Ireland and can be enjoyed by all, should politics that needs to be concentrated on, namely a be seen not as single-identity events but as something reduction in VAT on tourism, because our tourism that can unite all the people in Northern Ireland, who industry is being undermined. The amendment would will be able to enjoy them and, indeed, benefit from also delete the partisan elements of the motion. them economically? Mr Dodds: Disgraceful. Ms Ritchie: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I say to all Members present that it is Ms Ritchie: Absolutely not. It is our duty as public important that we look to all events and at all the representatives to try to heal divisions. attributes of the people of Northern Ireland. It is not enough simply to look through the narrow prism of one Dr McCrea: Will the hon. Lady give way? identity, but this motion could be construed as such, and I say that more in sorrow than in anger, and more Ms Ritchie: No, I will not. with regret than anything else. The political institutions that emerged from the Good So I look to the right hon. Member for Belfast Friday agreement were based on respect for political North— difference and identity, and around the three sets of relationships. There is no reference in the motion to that, to inclusion, to respect for political difference, or Mr Dodds rose— to the development of the shared society, to which the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has already Ms Ritchie: In his winding-up speech— referred. Mr Dodds: Will the hon. Lady give way? For me, as the Member for South Down, this is also a Belfast-centred motion. I represent a constituency that Ms Ritchie: Not at this particular stage. holds two of Northern Ireland’s signature tourism projects—the Mourne mountains and St Patrick’s country. We in the SDLP want to ensure—hence our amendment— Mr Dodds: Oh. that where tourism is central to our economy, it is allowed to grow and prosper, because it is one of the Ms Ritchie: But I will be quite happy to give way a major drivers of the economy. The tourism and hospitality little later, when I have progressed with my contribution. sectors will be better placed to contribute to growth and The motion underpins a Unionist agenda, it honours employment if supported by targeted reductions in the foundation of a Northern Ireland state, and there is VAT, as permitted under EU rules. We call on the no recognition of my identity and where I come from. A Chancellor to consider such timely concessions in the growing proportion of those who reside in Northern forthcoming Budget on 21 March. Ireland are Irish, hold Irish passports, support the There is little doubt that the outstanding character south of Ireland’s soccer team, support and participate and assets of my constituency’s tourism offering are in football and hurling, as part of the Gaelic Athletic unsurpassed. In this month of St Patrick, I ask all hon. Association, and speak the Irish language. That is part Members, as I ask my hon. Friend the Member for of our ethnicity and background. Gedling (Vernon Coaker), to come and walk in the I am not denigrating the views or the identity of footsteps of Patrick. Contrary to the real spirit of this others; I am saying that there must be parity of esteem, motion, Patrick was, and remains for us, the epitome of respect for both traditions on the island, and that when unity and diversity. [Interruption.] Patrick belonged to we are talking about the north of Ireland, or Northern everybody.Patrick was head and shoulders above everybody Ireland, we should take into account everybody’s attributes. else. We celebrate unity and diversity on 17 March. We That is what moving forward means and what the new celebrate the person who is the epitome of unity and 909 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 910 Ireland Ireland [Ms Ritchie] Members. I sometimes wonder why people make some of the points that are made when progress is going diversity, and a symbol of partnership and inclusion, forward steadily, as it should be. My right hon. Friend and we reject and resist calls for the domination of one and I were privileged to have our photograph taken form of nationalism over another. with Christine Bleakley—I happen to be her MP. It was I make those comments in order to highlight the fact a smashing occasion. Barry McGuigan and Paddy Kielty that Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland have were there, and there was a smashing end to the evening much to offer, but we have come from one place to with Van Morrison. All the good things about both another, and we must move ahead in terms of parity of Northern Ireland and southern Ireland were made clear esteem by respecting political traditions and respecting by Tourism Ireland. each other. This is not about a narrow form of nationalism; This is an exciting time for us all. It is time to put it is about a broader form of nationalism that embraces Northern Ireland on the tourism map as the home of a everybody on the island, both Unionist and nationalist. rich cultural history, mingled with modern facilities and Only last year, I was very happy to be in Dublin to meet a shopping haven. We should be secure in the knowledge the Queen, and I met her on two separate occasions. that once people get a taste of Ulster—in every sense of [Interruption.] Despite the comments that have been the word—and our unique hospitality and warmth, made from a sedentary position by those on the DUP they will always come back for more. The “Lonely Bench behind me, I want, like my hon. Friend the Planet” tour guide states that Northern Ireland is Member for Foyle, to place that on the record. We “abuzz with life: the cities are pulsating, the economy is thriving should always be very conscious of where we come and the people, the lifeblood that courses through the country, are from and do everything in the best interests of the in good spirits”. people of Northern Ireland and the best interests of all That is how it is in Northern Ireland. I am sure that the people of Ireland. when the Minister replies, he will agree. Another part of 4.27 pm the guide says that Belfast is one of the top 10 cities on the rise. Plenty of people are playing us up, encouraging Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I should like to us and telling the truth about Northern Ireland. associate myself with the comments of my right hon. We now have the impetus of a new dawn, with little Friend the Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds), my threat of violence and few fears over safety. In fact, hon. Friend the Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea) Northern Ireland is now one of the safest places in the and others in the Chamber about the six soldiers who United Kingdom. That is how much progress we have lost their lives in Afghanistan. Last year I went to made—that is the progress that the party that I am Afghanistan twice, and on one of those occasions, I was privileged to represent and the other parties in Northern in Lashkar Gah, where it seems that the six soldiers lost Ireland have worked to achieve. There is a shared future their lives. One could not fail to be impressed by the for us all and we accept that idea. Some people may not courage, dedication and sacrifice of our soldiers. I be able to accept that, but we do and we are moving suspect that many, if not all, of those in this Chamber forward. This opportunity has to be exploited. pray for our soldiers every day, as I do before I start my work. Our beautiful, natural and historic landscape, coupled It is with great pleasure that I support the motion. I with the vivacity that is integral to everything that talked to my right hon. Friend about it beforehand, and originates in Northern Ireland, cannot help but draw one cannot fail to get excited about it. Unlike the hon. people to our shores. Whether people come for rest and Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie), I feel that it says recuperation in our superior salons and five-star hotels; all the good things about Northern Ireland and epitomises to tour the country on nature holidays; to reside in the all the issues. It is exciting to have a proposal that quaint bed and breakfasts across Strangford and in promotes the whole of Northern Ireland, brings together many other parts of Northern Ireland; to tour in caravans, all elements of political opinion, and ensures that we using the many caravan parks in Strangford and across have something that we can all support. That is surely Northern Ireland; or to go shopping in the city, followed why people will, I hope, be flocking to our shores very by dinner and a show, Northern Ireland has it all. There shortly. must be a sincere and earnest push to show that to the rest of the world. I am unashamed to promote my beautiful constituency. Other Members say that their constituency is the best, I could go on and on, but it seems that the only and that may be their opinion, but that is said of my people who are fully aware of all that Ards, Strangford constituency by people who do not represent Strangford. and Northern Ireland have to offer are those who are When the shadow Secretary of State was in my constituency, blessed to have been born there and those who have he said, “Jim, this is the most beautiful constituency passed through. That is a loss to the people not only of that I have ever seen.” my constituency, but of the Province. If Strangford was marketed to its full potential, people would know about Vernon Coaker: After my own. its provision for nature lovers, with its cycling and walking routes aplenty and beautiful shores rife with Jim Shannon: That puts me in second place, but first birds and wildlife; for the weekend visitor who wants to place in Northern Ireland. shop and be pampered and to have a nice meal and a Recently, my right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast night out; for the caravanner who wants to take in the North, my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim beauty of the countryside; and for those who want a (Ian Paisley) and I attended a Tourism Ireland event at base from which to tour Northern Ireland, but want to St James’s palace. Everybody was happy to go, including get away from the city. Belfast is a mere 20 minutes away the Deputy First Minister. He had no issues with the and the seaside town of Bangor, with its carnival atmosphere event; he was pleased to support it, as were other around the pier, is only 10 minutes away. 911 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 912 Ireland Ireland I mentioned birds and wildlife, and shooting tourism—in centre in a debate in Westminster Hall, and we expounded the legal, correct sense—has great potential in Northern the pluses of those venues and the excellent tourism Ireland. The Minister of State is well aware of that, potential of the area. having shot game and pheasants at Rosemount and We can also mention the historic and archaeological Greyabbey. It was the biggest shooting day there for sites. There are links to monastic life in the area, and many years, and I was told afterwards that much of it St Patrick was there. Before anybody else says it, I point was down to his own gun and shooting prowess. out that he is the patron saint of the whole of Northern As I said, the shadow Secretary of State visited my Ireland and everyone of all persuasions. Last Friday constituency just a few weeks ago. Afterwards, he stated night I attended an event in Ballynahinch at which the that he would be back. We encourage him to return, this Minister for Social Development, Nelson McCausland, time with his cheque book, so that he can buy for his spoke. It was organised by the Orange district lodge, family many of the nice things that are available. We and it was about St Patrick and his history. It was look forward to that. smashing to have it. That is the St Patrick I look to, and everyone should look to. It would be remiss of me not to use this opportunity to talk about Strangford’s place in Northern Ireland. Ms Ritchie: I was careful to emphasise that Patrick is The breathtaking view from Scrabo tower in Newtownards the epitome of unity and diversity. Patrick belongs to to the moors on one side, Scotland and the sea on everybody on the island of Ireland. It is well known another and Belfast city behind cannot be surpassed that, after landing in the River Slaney at the mouth of and is rarely matched, as those who have been there, Strangford lough, he sailed up to Nendrum, which is in such as the Minister of State and the shadow Secretary the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, and established a of State, will acknowledge. In the town of Newtownards monastic settlement with his disciples. Patrick is the itself, there are superior hotels and a superior night life, origin of everything and the symbol of partnership. a weekly market, cinemas, a great shopping centre complex and beauty salons aplenty, including an all-Ireland Jim Shannon: He is not the origin of everything, but beauty salon finalist. he is certainly accepted by everyone. History and culture are rich around the Ards, with the well known Scrabo tower and Mount Stewart house Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): For the record, it and gardens. The area also has the only fully working is clearly documented that St Patrick was a Welshman fishing village in Strangford—I know that there are who came to Ireland and farmed in the hills around fishing villages in other areas, including Portavogie. Slemish. Strangford has some of the best game fishing, with Strangford lough and the Irish sea. That potential is Jim Shannon: He certainly travelled around Northern being realised, but we can do more. Tourism Ireland Ireland and he tended sheep in Slemish. That was clear should push game angling. from the historical talk that I heard last Friday. There is In Portaferry, we have the Exploris aquarium, which 7,000 years of history in County Down. Any history attracts more than 100,000 visitors a year. It is an buff could not help but be enthralled by the preservation excellent venue and has the capacity to do much more. of days gone by in relation to St Patrick that is so If someone takes the ferry from Portaferry across to evident in the area that I, my hon. Friend the Member Strangford village, in the neighbouring constituency—it for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) and other hon. Members takes eight minutes, cutting off more than an hour and represent. a half of driving—they will be taking the route that The film industry in Northern Ireland is moving Princess Alexandra took in 2003 as part of a themed forward by leaps and bounds. More companies than day to recognise excellence in tourism across the UK. ever are coming to Northern Ireland to take advantage of the opportunities for the film industry. Northern For the more modern culturalist, we also provide the Ireland is quickly becoming a centre for the film industry Battletown gallery in Newtownards, which is gaining an in the UK and Europe. international reputation and shows that craft, painting and other fields are progressing well. The Eden pottery We are looking forward to the celebrations of signing in Millisle in my constituency provides the opportunity the Ulster covenant 100 years ago. Every council in not only to purchase superior pottery but to make it, as Northern Ireland is arranging a special event to part of a tourism experience. We should do more of commemorate signing the covenant, which was first that sort of thing. step on the road to the creation of Northern Ireland. There are not many people in Northern Ireland who do We also have antiques shops, coffee and tea shops not have a relative who signed the covenant—indeed, and superior places to eat. The humble Comber potato one of my constituents, an elderly lady called Mrs Simpson, has been recognised by Europe, and in Strangford we whom I had helped with a few constituency issues, came can give people a meal that no one else can—starting in one day and said, “Jim, there’s my grandfather’s with Portavogie prawns, the Comber potato, the Ards covenant.” It had pride of place, but she said, “Youtake steak and Willowbrook Foods vegetables, all to tickle that, because I know that you will appreciate it.” That the palate and give people the opportunity to have food now has pride of place in my home. that they cannot get anywhere else in the whole UK. The Somme centre is on the edge of my constituency, If someone takes a drive down the other side of Ards, which borders North Down. It preserves the memory they will come across Castle Espie wildfowl and wetlands and recalls the efforts of the Ulster Division in the first centre near Comber. My right hon. Friend the Member world war. It is an excellent venue that now attracts for Belfast North and myself both spoke on behalf of more people than ever. We have a wealth of history and Exploris and the Castle Espie wildfowl and wetlands a wealth of attractions. Clearly, tourism must be the 913 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 914 Ireland Ireland [Jim Shannon] It is time for us to take our place on the world tourism stage and to allow others to see, enjoy and be way to take that forward. Celebrations this year will involved in everything that we have to offer—great attract many visitors on 28 September. I hope that the lodgings, fantastic scenery, wonderful shopping, world-class re-enactments that are planned will draw those who golf and, indeed, world-class golfers, salons, and most have come to the UK for the Olympics. importantly, that unique Northern Ireland hospitality that beckons people in and makes them feel part of the Our little country with the big heart has a definite family. A holiday in Northern Ireland will refresh and place in the 2012 Olympics and I want to ensure that we renew. This year, it will give people a rich insight into step up to the mark and claim our rightful place as an our vast culture and heritage, of which we are so proud. integral part of the UK, and a jewel in the crown of One visit, and their opinion will be set for ever. Northern great British attractions. I believe that we can and must Ireland is the place to come this year and every year. do that. We have world-class athletes who are already drawing attention to Northern Ireland in Olympic circles. Ian Paisley rose— It is no secret—other hon. Members have mentioned it—that we excel in boxing and shooting in Northern Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP) rose— Ireland. That does not mean that we are violent people. It just means that we are good at certain sports, and Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. those happen to be two of them. We bring medals Before I call the remaining speakers—there are two—I home from Commonwealth games and Olympic should tell them that I intend to call the wind-ups at games. Two members of the Comber rifle club in my 5.8 pm. If they could share the time, that would be very constituency have consistently won gold and silver medals acceptable to all Members in the Chamber. at the Olympic games and the Commonwealth games. We have an opportunity this time to hold some of the 4.46 pm training camps for those who are going to the Olympics Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): May I first in the Province. No. 1 world golfer Rory McIlroy is apologise for not being present for most of the debate? proud to wave his Ulster flag at his victories, and that Unfortunately, I had a meeting to discuss the devolution has already created great media attention. We also have of corporation tax to Northern Ireland, which is a very great facilities to offer people who travel to the UK. important issue. The first main event on our calendar this year is the I gather that the debate has been fairly lively. The Queen’s jubilee. It is set to become some event, with the only two speeches I heard were from the hon. Member councils in my area preparing themselves for a record for South Down (Ms Ritchie) and my hon. Friend the number of street parties and events as we celebrate Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I did not know 60 years of our sovereign’s reign over us. It is good to we had to parade the benefits of our constituencies in have SDLP Members making a contribution to the the debate. The shadow Secretary of State said that debate; it is a pity that they could not do so when we Strangford is the most beautiful constituency he has discussed the humble address, as they were standing been to, but he said that before he had even been to my guard outside the door. constituency, adding that he wanted to visit. Our Queen has provided stability and continuity I think I can trump everything my hon. Friend the through changing Governments, changing ideals and a Member for Strangford said about his constituency. He changing world. She has selflessly given of herself, with has the Scrabo tower, which was built a mere 150 years a diligence that is difficult to match, and she has maintained ago; I have Carrickfergus castle, the oldest Norman a quiet dignity through the journey of life in the public fort, I believe, in the whole United Kingdom. He talks eye. She has given 60 years of dedicated service to our about St Patrick wandering around his constituency; nation and is the epitome of a great lady—she exemplifies King Billy landed in mine. He talks about the Ards the best of British: kind, industrious, wise and respectful. shopping centre; I have a cathedral of consumerism at Other members of the royal family are taking that the Abbey centre. For goodness sake! For his mere tradition over. We notice from the news today that Comber spud, I can offer Glenarm salmon, which is Prince Harry has become the fastest man in the world. famous the world over. I could go on, Madam Deputy According to the news, it is official that Usain Bolt was Speaker, but I know you want me to move on. in second place in that sprint. The debate is important, but I was a bit saddened by what I heard from the hon. Member for South Down. I People will fly their flags with pride while bonding as like her, but her speech was not worthy of her. This communities to celebrate the reign of our Queen. That debate was not meant to be about boasting about the will happen in many places across the Province. If the Unionist tradition in Northern Ireland; it was about high level of interest in and excitement at Prince William promoting Northern Ireland, whose people have different and Kate’s wedding last year are anything to go by—I backgrounds, national aspirations, outlooks and huge am talking about the whole community across the whole historical differences. Nevertheless, I believe that 2012 of Northern Ireland—no one will want to miss the offers an opportunity to all people in Northern Ireland Queen’s jubilee. to gain from the economic benefits that will arise from Northern Ireland is moving forward in a way that no the unique events and anniversaries this year. Those one could have foreseen 10 years ago. Even I could not events and anniversaries will also help us to understand have foreseen the progress that we have made, but I and some of our own traditions, background and history. the Democratic Unionist party are pleased with that I was saddened, therefore, by the contribution from progress. We are moving forward in leaps and bounds to the hon. Member for South Down because this should deliver something for everyone, including the young have been a positive debate, and I hope that it will be boys and girls who have yet to grow up and get jobs. seen as such. We are proud to live in Northern Ireland 915 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 916 Ireland Ireland and proud that it has come through the dark days that Mr Dodds: I very much welcome the tone and content have probably dominated most of our lives—certainly of my hon. Friend’s remarks about the nature of the most of our political lives—and is moving on. The events that we are highlighting. However, while we are motion states that we are moving forward not because on the subject of events happening in his constituency—I of what Unionists alone have done but because of what think he referred to the “cathedral of consumerism”—I we have all done and the compromises we have all had should just make it clear that the Abbey centre is to make. I believe that those decisions will ensure that actually in Belfast North. the next 30 years are not blighted like the past 30 years. I was a bit saddened, then, by her negative approach. Sammy Wilson: It is near the border, and I could not think of a cathedral in my constituency. Just as my right Mark Durkan: The hon. Gentleman said that he had hon. Friend—the Member for Belfast North—purloined not heard the whole debate. On the positive changes part of my constituency at the last review by the Boundary made, the motion and 2012, does he acknowledge the Commission, I have taken in some of the shopping in particularly strong and positive role being played by his. Indeed, those facilities are used mostly by people Tourism Ireland—a body whose creation his party from East Antrim anyway, and would probably not be persistently opposed for many years and whose budget able to survive were they unable to go and shop there, so it tried to have aborted? Will he accept that he got that I suppose we share it to that extent—I knew it was wrong and was negative, but that now it is doing good probably a mistake to let him intervene. things? I know that others want to speak, so let me say in conclusion that I hope that 2012 will be a year in which Sammy Wilson: I would prefer to consider what all of we see a further turning of the corner in Northern us now have to do to promote Northern Ireland not Ireland. Those of us who live in Northern Ireland know only next year but in all the years ahead. And one area that there have been changes; after 2012, because of the we have to offer and which has been identified as a international interest, people further afield will know growth industry is the tourism industry: it is labour that there have been changes in that part of the United intensive; we have a good natural resource that we can Kingdom too. exploit to the benefit of tourism; and there is huge interest in past events in Northern Ireland. So we have 4.55 pm the industry, the history and the architectural heritage, and we should exploit that. Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): Like my hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), I Mark Durkan: All of it. have not been here for all the debate, because of my attendance at a Select Committee sitting. However, I Ms Ritchie: All of it. welcome the opportunity today to celebrate and debate some of the wonderful things that are happening in our Sammy Wilson: All of it, yes. That includes the country and across our kingdom this year. features in the hon. Lady’s constituency that people I notice that my colleagues have been boasting about visit and into which money has been poured to develop their constituencies. How dare they, when they know some of that tourist infrastructure, and the celebrations that North Antrim exists! Someone once said that in of St Patrick and that whole tradition—some claim North Antrim we have the manufacture of tobacco at St Patrick for the Roman Catholic community, some one end, the manufacture of Bushmills whiskey at the claim it for the Protestant community. It really does not other, and all the vices in between. I want to make it matter! If St Patrick is a marketable commodity, let us absolutely clear for the record that I represent everyone make him a marketable commodity and benefit from it. in North Antrim, and I am delighted to do so, including [Interruption.] Yes, and a neutral flag as well. all those factories. It is disappointing that this is seen as divisive rather When people travel to the Olympics and celebrate the than unifying. There are huge opportunities for us in games this year, they will be travelling on a wonderful the celebration of the Titanic, of the Ulster covenant new bus. It has been dubbed the “Boris bus”, but it is and of Her Majesty’s 60th anniversary. We have not actually the Ballymena bus, because it is made in my been selective about these events. They are outside our constituency. Indeed, this wonderful, iconic piece of control. This year is the 100th anniversary of some of engineering should be celebrated—indeed, I hope it will these events, and we cannot dictate which ones we be—as people enjoy what is an environmentally friendly include and which we do not. They just happen to be bus, a little bit of Ballymena travelling through London there. We need to ensure, however, that we get the every day. That gives me a huge amount of pride about maximum benefit from them and that they are used in what we can achieve in our constituencies and what we a way that is not divisive but unifying so that the deliver to the kingdom. We also have some wonderful whole community can benefit from the economic areas for tourism, which I hope people will come and opportunity. enjoy as well, not least the majestic Giant’s Causeway. The motion recognises, at the very end, that we want Indeed, we look forward to seeing a new visitors’ centre to see Northern Ireland moving forward, and moving opening there and to more tourists coming to see the forward together. We recognise the progress made and constituency. we do not see these events as exclusive. They are to be However, I want to focus my brief comments this enjoyed by people in Northern Ireland. Most importantly, afternoon on the latter part of the motion before the we want them enjoyed by people outside Northern House, which draws attention to the centenary of the signing Ireland. I will not go through, as I am sure other hon. of the Ulster covenant and declaration—or, the Ulster Members have, all the benefits of my own constituency, solemn league and covenant. It was a seminal moment, although I mentioned some of them in the introduction. not only in the history of Ulster and the history of 917 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 918 Ireland Ireland [Ian Paisley] The lieutenant-colonel goes on: “The Ulster Division won undying fame at Thiepval in 1916, Ireland, but in the history of these islands. It is an because it was largely composed of men who, like Colonel Crawford, inspirational moment, and it should continue to inspire had the true Crusading spirit. I hope that the younger generation the people of these islands today. We should acknowledge in Ulster may be inspired by his…example”. the significant role that the signing of the league and That was an example of boys’ own heroism, and boys’ covenant played, not only for the kingdom, but in own determination to do whatever had to be done to helping during the great war in 1914. To put it into save something that people believed in. historical context, in 1916, seven men signed the I am glad that this Parliament is going to celebrate, proclamation for the republic in Dublin. In 1776, the support and endorse the covenant and the declaration. American declaration of independence had 56 Even if a Parliament were to try to turn the will of a signatories. The Ulster covenant of 1912 had 218,216 people on its head, the people would ultimately be right, men signing it in one day, with 228,991 women signing a and their determination should be recognised at all parallel, uncompromising declaration of association times. I want to put on record the words of Ulster’s with the Ulster solemn league and covenant. A further solemn league and covenant. It states: 19,162 men and 5,055 women of Ulster birth signed in “Being convinced in our consciences that Home Rule would be Dublin, Edinburgh, Glasgow, York, Liverpool, London, disastrous to the material well-being of Ulster as well as the rest Manchester and Bristol. of Ireland, subversive of our civil and religious freedom, destructive The Ulster covenant was truly an impressive of our citizenship and perilous to the unity of the Empire, we demonstration of the resolve of early 20th century whose names are underwritten, men of Ulster, loyal subjects of Ulstermen and women to remain citizens of the United His Gracious Majesty King George V, humbly relying on the God Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, as it was then. whom our fathers in days of stress and trial confidently trusted, do hereby pledge ourselves in solemn Covenant throughout this It also demonstrated a spontaneous solidarity in defence time of threatened calamity to stand by one another in defending of the Union. Furthermore, it showed that Unionism for ourselves and our children our cherished position of equal was a popular, broadly based, democratic movement. citizenship in the United Kingdom and in using all means which Today, that resonates with me, as an Ulsterman and a may be found necessary to defeat the present conspiracy to set up Unionist and as one who is passionate about recognising a Home Rule Parliament in Ireland. And in the event of such a that the Union is richly made up of all its component Parliament being forced upon us we further solemnly and mutually parts. The Union is only as strong as each and every one pledge ourselves to refuse to recognise its authority. In sure confidence that God will defend the right we hereto subscribe our of those component parts. It is strong because of its names. And further, we individually declare that we have not association with Ulster, with Scotland, with Wales and, already signed this Covenant.” of course, with England. This was a seminal moment in British history that Dr McCrea: Does my hon. Friend acknowledge the was determined not by the will of a Parliament or by findings of the highly respected Queen’s university survey the outcome of an election, but by the will and the mass of public opinion that has just been published, which movement of people power in that part of Ireland—in shows overwhelming support for the Union? It found Ulster, the part that we cherish most—that said, once that 82.6% of people in Northern Ireland want to live in and for all, that it is the people that really matter. I hope the United Kingdom and are proud to be British. that when we celebrate these wonderful events this year, we will recognise that these events are wonderful because Ian Paisley: My hon. Friend makes that point well. of one thing—the unique peoples that make up these What a year for that survey to come out! countries in Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and The word “covenant” has important meanings. In England. We should recognise that we are a unique and modern parlance, it refers to a barter or bargain, but it wonderful people with unique and wonderful ideas, and also has the Hebrew meaning of a divine promise linked that we have a right as a people to come together and to with a human obligation. Its literal meaning is a bond celebrate our diversity, to celebrate who and what we or fettering—something that should not be broken. So are, to celebrate the differences also, but to hold steadfastly convinced were people of the need for the Ulster covenant to the fact that we have a proud and recognisable that some of them even signed it in their own blood, to tradition—and that nothing should make us ashamed demonstrate that their passion for the Union was not of it. something that could easily be torn up, and that it was part and parcel of their very soul and their very being. 5.6 pm We should take inspiration from that passion and Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): I am inspiration. happy to conclude the debate, and I am grateful to I have a wonderful book written by a guy called everyone who has participated in it. As has been said, Colonel Crawford, which has a foreword written by we have had a good, lively and generally good-humoured Lieutenant-Colonel Sir Wilfrid Spender that outlines debate—with one or two exceptions. I am grateful to the importance of the covenant in the history of the my hon. Friends the Members for South Antrim Union and of the first world war. He wrote: (Dr McCrea) and for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell), “Looking back, the British have reason to be grateful to the the hon. Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke (Jack Ulster people for their stand for the Empire, and more particularly Lopresti), my hon. Friends the Members for Upper to Colonel Crawford, who brought from Germany, before the Bann (David Simpson), for Strangford (Jim Shannon), first Great War, more than sufficient arms to equip a division in for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) and for North Antrim Northern Ireland, and this was a large factor in releasing all six regular divisions for the Expeditionary Force. Germany lost those (Ian Paisley) and the hon. Members for Foyle (Mark weapons at a vital time, and they proved invaluable in training the Durkan) and for South Down (Ms Ritchie) for their 36th Ulster Division, of which I was the acting general staff contributions, as well as to the shadow Secretary of officer before its departure to France in 1915.” State and the Secretary of State for theirs. I know that 919 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 920 Ireland Ireland the Secretary of State has had to leave the Chamber to reward. They contributed to the bringing about of the engage in an important piece of work on behalf of circumstances that we all enjoy today. We should pay Northern Ireland. tribute to members of the Army—members of the References were made in the early part of the debate Ulster Defence Regiment and the Royal Irish Regiment— to the natural humour of people in Northern Ireland. and to members of the emergency services. All those Some of that might have been lost in recent exchanges people made an immense contribution, and should in this debate, but by and large I think it is right to say never be forgotten—and, of course, we should never that the good humour and character of people in Northern forget the victims who live daily with the pain and Ireland—on both sides of the community—were a factor suffering of all those years of violence, as do their in bringing Northern Ireland through the darkest and families. deepest days of challenge and trouble to where we are We can view 2012 as a fantastic year of opportunity now. and we can reflect on the progress that has been made, The very fact that we are having this kind of debate but it is always important to bear in mind the sacrifice on the Floor of the House—and, indeed, those we that is being and has been made by so many. As was regularly see taking place in the Northern Ireland pointed out by my hon. Friend the Member for South Assembly—dealing with matters to do with the economy Antrim, we should be conscious that we are speaking and social affairs, and how to attract more people by today in the shadow of the loss of six brave servicemen celebrating the opportunities for increased tourism, stands in Afghanistan, and obviously our thoughts and prayers in marked contrast, as the Secretary of State said, to the are with their families at this time. sort of debates we were having 10 years ago, when we The motion is broadly drafted: we tabled it in good lurched under previous dispensations of political leadership faith to celebrate the events that are taking place in in Northern Ireland from political crisis to political 2012. It refers to the diamond jubilee, on which we had crisis, when we were debating suspensions of devolution, a good and positive debate earlier today, when the round table talks and all the rest of it. Under the House was virtually united. It also refers to the Olympic current leadership in Northern Ireland, we now see games, the amazing Titanic centenary, and the centenary steadfast and sure progress being made in a stable of the Ulster covenant. All those events are mentioned political environment. in tourism literature that has been published in Northern As we know, the Northern Ireland Assembly has Ireland and is widely available. entered its second full term of devolution. That is no We do not seek to be divisive in any way, but, as my mean feat, but we sometimes take it for granted. Sometimes hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim pointed out, the House needs to be reminded of just how far we have the motion refers only to events that are happening this come. Things that were unthinkable even a short time year. Next year, 2013, Londonderry will be the city of ago are now accepted as commonplace. We do well now culture, and the world police and fire games will come and again to take stock and pause, and to reflect on and to Northern Ireland. Those will of course be celebrated, celebrate how far we have come, not to forget the and there will be other events in 2014 and 2016. No challenges and difficulties, but to say that things have doubt the whole issue of the Somme, and events that improved considerably. took place in Dublin, will also be discussed and Many people will take credit for that. Mention has commemorated. been made of the work of political leaders. I join the We should commemorate events as they happen, in a tributes to them, but the true tribute, of course, goes to positive way. My hon. Friend the Member for Strangford the people of Northern Ireland—the ordinary, decent and the hon. Member for Foyle referred to a tremendous people of Northern Ireland on all sides, the vast majority event that took place not long ago in, of all places, of whom, despite the violence and pressures on them St James’s palace—a royal palace that could be described during those times of trouble, voted consistently for as the heart of the British monarchy. It was an amazing parties that were opposed to violence and stood against situation. Ambassadors to this country are appointed violence, saying clearly that they wanted a democratic to the Court of St James’s, the seat of the monarchy, but and peaceful way forward. Some people who were engaged on that occasion the palace was taken over and branded in violence had to realise that and reach a point at with the images of Northern Ireland. The First Minister which instead of trying to tear down the state of Northern was there, as was the Deputy First Minister, Martin Ireland, they gave their support to the police, the rule of McGuinness. He entered a royal palace and talked law and the courts. That is a measure of just how far we about the positive aspects of Northern Ireland. He did have come. not make any of the points that the hon. Member for As we heard earlier, on Monday a report from Queen’s South Down has made in this debate, because he recognises university, which is highly respected, showed that some that it is positive for Northern Ireland to commemorate 82% of people want Northern Ireland to remain within events as they happen. the United Kingdom on the basis of the political agreements We should pay tribute to the Department of Enterprise, that have been made. That is an amazing turnaround, Trade and Investment, the Northern Ireland Tourist and contrasts with the debate that is currently taking Board and, indeed, Tourism Ireland for the work that place in Scotland. they are doing. We must also acknowledge the budget Central to the tributes that should be paid are tributes that has been given for tourism in Northern Ireland. to our security forces. We should pay tribute to members Tourism Ireland has responsibility for marketing Northern of the police, including the part-time police. The other Ireland to the rest of the United Kingdom and to the day I took a delegation to meet the Minister of Justice. wider world. The NITB has responsibility for marketing Those men and women served in the RUC part-time within Northern Ireland and in the Irish Republic. reserve during the darkest days of the troubles, under Some of us could certainly happily have a discussion serious threat of death and for very little monetary about how best to market Northern Ireland, but that is 921 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 922 Ireland Ireland [Mr Nigel Dodds] constituency and high levels of youth unemployment in particular. However, if all of us work together we can a debate for another day. All I want to say now about try to make things better. We must take advantage of the budget for tourism in general is that we need to get the opportunities that exist in 2012 to build a fantastic the biggest bang for our buck, whether through the future for our province. I am delighted to commend the NITB or Tourism Ireland, in promoting Northern Ireland. motion to the House. I am sure we all agree on that. I have enormous respect for the hon. Member for 5.20 pm South Down, but—in contrast to the remarks of her The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo party colleague, the hon. Member for Foyle—her Swire): This has been a lively—at times very lively—debate, contribution was a little jarring. As she talks so much but it has been an informative one and, on the whole, a about inclusion, I hope she will use her influence and good one. The hon. Member for South Antrim best endeavours in respect of a decision made today by (Dr McCrea) was early out of the traps and talked Down district council, on which she and her party have about the perception of Northern Ireland and how enormous influence. There is consternation about the there was a job to be done dismantling people’s false council’s decision to move away from a good and agreed perceptions. That is a good description of what we are model for the St Patrick’s day celebrations. Belfast and seeking to do in this watershed year. He also alluded to other councils have been looking to Down district as a the sporting heroes Mary Peters, who we all see as the model to follow, but that has been ended by its decision lord lieutenant of Belfast—no doubt she will play her to adopt a flag for the St Patrick’s day parade that is part during this diamond jubilee year—George Best, exclusive, instead of inclusive. That has undone all the who one might argue is somewhat different to Mary good work of the past 25 years, and I hope something Peters, and Barry McGuigan. Those are all great heroes—to will be done about it. say nothing of Graeme McDowell, Darren Clarke and Rory McIlroy. The opportunities with the Olympics Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): I grew up in a have also been mentioned. I have said before in this community that had similar divisions to those in Northern place that I am slightly disappointed that we are not Ireland, although they did not result in the same regrettable having more teams in Northern Ireland for the Olympics. outcomes. On the changing perceptions of Northern We have got the Chinese gymnasts and so forth, so we Ireland, although division once characterised the region, have got some teams, but we want to make sure that does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the respect he Northern Ireland shares in the Olympics before, during has shown to the hon. Member for South Down and, critically, in the aftermath. (Ms Ritchie) reflects the respect that the different communities now have for each other? We all know of the economic challenges facing Northern Ireland—we are not inured from those—but I shall not rehearse them today. Some Members referred to the Mr Dodds: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman happiness league, which I might come back to. However, for his intervention. He served as a Northern Ireland I must say, given the general demeanour of right hon. Minister for several years during difficult times, and I and hon. Members this afternoon, I think their happiness pay tribute to him for the work he did then. is a given fact. It is quite proper, as the right hon. I like to think that politicians in Northern Ireland Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) said in his did respect each others’ positions, although that might concluding remarks, to have this sort of debate on the not always have come across. Indeed, there is growing Floor of the House. Is it not wonderful, as he said, that respect, even in the debates we are now having about this debate is about the agenda we have been discussing commemorations and celebrations and the decade of rather than about the troubles and the whole issue of centenaries. I believe that greater maturity is now being devolution and suspension that so bedevilled discussions shown on all sides than was the case 10 or 20 years ago. in this place for too long? Perhaps one day all democratically People are now looking at issues in ways that are elected Members of Parliament will take their rightful intended to create the maximum consensus, rather than place here and speak up for their constituents and their maximum division. We will not always agree on everything. part of the world, as hon. Members have done so well There will still be disagreements; we do not hide that this afternoon. fact. Members hold different views about the best long-term Inevitably, we have heard much discussion about the future for Northern Ireland and where we want it to signing of the covenant. We should remember that that be—we, as Unionists, firmly say we want to be within came after the third Home Rule Bill, in reaction to it, the United Kingdom, for instance. That should not stop and I am pleased to say that we are in co-operation and us working together in the best interests of Northern co-ordination with Dublin. I pay tribute to the Minister Ireland, however, to promote the economic and social Jimmy Deenihan with whom I have been working on betterment of all our people. creating the architecture within which we can set this I want to reiterate the point I made about the diamond decade of commemorations. That starts next week in jubilee. We have debated that, and I do not want to Westminster Hall with an exhibition on the third Home rehearse the sentiments that were expressed, but I ask Rule Bill. We hope it will then travel on to Dublin and the Minister to ensure that as much notice is given to to Northern Ireland. the people of Northern Ireland of Her Majesty’s visit. We have rightly heard a lot about Her Majesty the We face many challenges. The dissidents and the Queen all afternoon and we want to play our part in troubles have been mentioned. There are terrorists out Northern Ireland in the diamond jubilee. I shall come there who still want to derail our process and we face back to her visit in a minute. On a lighter note, we heard grave economic challenges. I am well aware that there the amazing revelation—if I had not been here to hear are still high levels of deprivation and poverty in my it, I might not have believed it if I had read it in 923 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 924 Ireland Ireland Hansard—about the hon. Member for South Antrim tourism. I have looked into the subject, not least because being dressed in his little sailor suit. There is now a my constituency is East Devon and tourism is extremely £100 bounty for photographic evidence of that. I have important in the south-west, and I have had a discussion to confess that there is—not in circulation I am pleased with the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, to say, but in existence—a photograph of me in a sailor Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member for suit, but hon. Members would probably expect that. Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose). However, at the The hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell), moment we need more revenue, to fill the black hole who is not in his place—I know that various people unfortunately left to us by Labour. I do not think the have had to go to different Committees—talked about Chancellor is short of ideas for cuts—from fuel duty to the Irish Open and how he wants to open things up, as income and corporation taxes—but I fear we shall have do we, and about the decade of commemorations. He to wait until we have managed to restore some sanity to talked about Londonderry—about Derry being the first the UK economy. UK city of culture—and he knows, as does the hon. We heard about the Commonwealth medal for shooting, Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), that I have been and about Northern Ireland’s boxing prowess, both of working quietly behind the scenes and with them to see which we celebrate, but we want to diversify slightly if I can add any value to the city of culture efforts into other sports better to reflect Northern Ireland in because we want to make that a huge success not only the 21st century. for the city but for the surrounding area. The Secretary of State had to absent himself to Hon. Members also dwelled on a little bit of political attend the joint ministerial working group on rebalancing history and the alliance between my party and the the economy. I imagine that the First Minister and the Ulster Unionist party before the election. I do not read Deputy First Minister were there, as was Northern blogs or tweets but I am aware of noises on the street Ireland’s Finance Minister, the Member for North Antrim, and believe that even the Democratic Unionist party who is now in the Chamber—[HON.MEMBERS: “East has been in discussions of one sort or another—deniable Antrim.”] There has been so much gerrymandering this or otherwise—with the Ulster Unionist party. All I can afternoon that every Northern Ireland Member has laid do is refer to that old British Telecom campaign, “It’s claim to part of another Member’s constituency, so I good to talk.” hope the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) There was some discussion of rebalancing the economy, will forgive me for that slip. growing exports and inward investment, all of which we To make a serious point, the fact that people have want to do. come and gone during the debate does not show lack of My hon. Friend the Member for Filton and Bradley interest. It shows that occasionally we are conflicted, Stoke (Jack Lopresti) is the only member of the Northern particularly Ministers, which is why the Secretary of Ireland Affairs Committee who was able to attend this State and I were not at the Treasury debate held in debate. That is in no way to impugn the keenness of Westminster Hall last week, a point that I hope is not others to be here, but I am grateful to my hon. Friend. lost on those who sought to suggest otherwise. He talked about the security situation, which has not been much mentioned this afternoon. Of course, we The hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) need to be ever vigilant, particularly in a Chamber that gave us a rich diet of tea, buns and meat; he is no longer displays the shields of Airey Neave, Ian Gow and Sir in the Chamber—he has probably gone to lie down. I Anthony Berry, all of whom gave their lives to Northern can testify to Ulster’s legendary hospitality; the Ulster Ireland. We will never forget the role played by fry is the antithesis to the Jane Fonda workout. The parliamentarians of all persuasions in Northern Ireland’s hon. Gentleman was a veritable Wikipedia on Northern troubled past. Ireland, listing many things that we never knew, but we certainly know now. We bitterly condemn, as a united House, all the attacks, not least in Derry-Londonderry, made by those The hon. Gentleman said that Northern Ireland’s who are trying to upset the city of culture, NI 2012 and place in the UK is settled, as we also heard in Northern the real progress that we have made. I give them a Ireland questions this morning, so I think we can take it message from the House, loud and clear: they will not as a given. We no longer hear so much from the First be successful. Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond, about his arc of prosperity reaching from Iceland to the Republic of My hon. Friend said that 2012 is a catalyst to realise Ireland. Perhaps our sisters and brothers in Scotland the aspirations of many people. We can all concur. would do well to look at Northern Ireland’s settled The hon. Member for Foyle talked about a purposeful place in the Union and how it prospers as an equal, inquiry. There have been some good comments this contributing and vital part of our great United Kingdom. afternoon about how we should address the decade of commemorations, and I rather like “purposeful inquiry.” There were some questions about the visit of Her Next week, I hope we can set the tone with the third Majesty to Northern Ireland in her diamond jubilee Home Rule Bill exhibition. We heard about the launch year. Of course the Queen’s subjects wish to see her, but of NI 2012 at St James’s palace, which I was able to that must be balanced against other considerations. We attend. That, too, set the tone. Talking of tone, no one hear what has been said and the Palace is aware that her struck a better one than Van the Man—Van Morrison, subjects in Northern Ireland wish to express their loyalty. who does not necessarily convey the Ulster sense of The hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker), the happiness and well-being that we now all recognise as shadow Secretary of State, referred quite properly to the defining characteristic of Ulster men and women. the six soldiers killed in Afghanistan, as did other None the less, he is one of my great heroes. speakers this afternoon. It is horrific. For those of us We heard a request for the targeted reduction, or even who are from a military background, as I am, and those the abolition—temporary or otherwise—of VAT on of us who have been to Afghanistan, as have so many of 925 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 Changing Perceptions of Northern 926 Ireland Ireland [Mr Hugo Swire] safe to say that they are all utterly beautiful. Some are more beautiful than others, but if I were he, I would not us in the Chamber, every time we hear of losses our say which. heart goes out to the families, but six in one go is The hon. Member for East Antrim is a larger-than-life something that we have not got used to. Our hearts and figure in politics in Northern Ireland, where he has to our thoughts are with the families this afternoon. wrestle with economic troubles daily. He came from a The hon. Gentleman repeated the call for a targeted meeting of the joint ministerial working group today cut to VAT. I point out—it may be an issue to which the and gave an upbeat and typically positive speech. He Opposition Front-Bench team wish to return in the gave a virtual tour of his beautiful constituency, and so Budget—that such a cut is costed at £8 billion UK-wide, successful was he in doing so—I rather hoped you so if he is genuinely calling for that, it will have to be would stop him, Madam Deputy Speaker—that I do factored into any assessment that we make of Labour’s not think there is now any need for anyone to visit plans for the economy. Northern Ireland; they could simply download the Sammy The hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) Wilson app and stay at home, which is not what we spoke about sporting prowess, including the Gaelic want at all. He also talked about Glenarm salmon, Athletic Association. I am very pleased, as are we all, which is delicious and I can recommend to everyone. that the GAA says it will play a role in all the I was particularly pleased to hear about the hon. commemorations over the next decade, as it should. Gentleman’s support for tourism, both Tourism Ireland The hon. Lady also spoke about film in Northern and tourism as an enterprise, on which he has been Ireland, to which the Secretary of State referred earlier. working closely with the Northern Ireland Enterprise I am disappointed that the new “Titanic” series was not Minister, Arlene Foster, because 2012 presents us with a filmed in Northern Ireland. I raised the matter with huge opportunity. Of course we start the decade plus of various people, but the series was made in Hungary. commemorations, a time when we will look back, but it That is a cause for sadness and I hope we can avoid such is also a time when we will look forward and present a mistake in future, but endless good productions are Northern Ireland as it is in the 21st century to a world being made in Northern Ireland as we speak. that is largely ignorant of Northern Ireland. I have said Then things all started to go so horribly wrong, when it before and will say it again: if you are not in Northern the issue of who owns St Patrick came to the fore once Ireland in 2012, you are no one. more. It was amazing. Just as the hon. Lady was claiming The hon. Member for North Antrim, who has had to St Patrick for the mountains of Mourne and her own leave to attend a Committee meeting—he sent me his constituency, as if from nowhere the hon. Member for apologies—having made his intervention about St Patrick, North Antrim (Ian Paisley) appeared, Mephistopheles-like, rightly made a public relations puff for Wrightbus, and from some Committee to claim yet again that Slemish we can see the evidence of its workmanship on our was St Patrick’s natural home and that he came from streets. Ken Livingstone probably calls it the Ballymena Wales. [Interruption.] The shadow Leader of the House— bus, but we will call it the Boris bus as we want to see Boris properly returned as Mayor of London. The hon. The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of Gentleman talked about the excellent visitors’ centre at the House of Commons (Mr David Heath): Deputy. the Giant’s Causeway, which is a must on anyone’s to-do list. Of course, he did not talk about the new golf Mr Swire: The Deputy Leader of the House—I will resort at Runkerry, which we all look forward to. It was make him into a shadow quite soon—is now claiming 10 years in the planning, which we cannot allow to St Patrick not for Wales, but for Somerset, when my happen again, but at least it is happening. It will be notes tell me quite clearly that St Patrick actually came another attraction that puts Northern Ireland on the from north Devon. I hope the good people of Northern map. We have had various discussions about starting Ireland and particularly their political representatives soon to market the island of Ireland as the golf states, care so much about the right hon. Member for East rather than the Gulf states, because we will be rich in Devon that they fight about him as much as they are sport, if not in oil. Healso spoke passionately about the fighting about St Patrick. We claim him for Devon, the signing of the Ulster covenant, and no doubt he will Deputy Leader of the House claims him for Somerset, play an active part in the commemorations as and when the Welsh no doubt claim him for Wales, but we know they occur. that he was at some stage in Northern Ireland. We will We heard from every corner of Northern Ireland this leave it to others to decide where. afternoon. There have been some disagreements, but if I thank the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) we compare those to the kinds of disagreements there for revealing my relationship with some of the wildfowl might have been in a similar debate seven, eight or on the peninsula. I am most grateful to him for revealing 10 years ago, we can see that it is remarkable how far we what I do in my private time. I can tell him that when I have come. From my perspective, we have a lot further am in Northern Ireland and armed, it is with the proper to go. We are going there pretty quickly, and 2012 is the authorisation of the Chief Constable. I wish that was year we will start. always the case. Question put and agreed to. I know the hon. Gentleman’s part of the world extremely Resolved, well. It is a beautiful constituency. I would not make the rash statements that the shadow Secretary of State That this House welcomes the NI 2012 campaign to change perceptions of Northern Ireland and to encourage many more made to every Member of Parliament from Northern visitors to come to Northern Ireland; notes that, despite current Ireland that theirs is the most beautiful constituency, economic difficulties, this campaign takes place in the context of because there are 18 constituencies in Northern Ireland, a momentous year for the UK when the nation will celebrate the and when he gets to about 17, he will be rumbled. It is Diamond Jubilee of Her Majesty The Queen, and will host the 927 Changing Perceptions of Northern 7 MARCH 2012 928 Ireland Olympic Games; further notes that, in Northern Ireland, 2012 is the centenary of the Titanic tragedy, an event that remains seared Backbench Business into the world’s consciousness and culture, and the centenary of the signing of the Ulster covenant and Declaration, often described [UNALLOTTED PART DAY] as the foundation document of Northern Ireland; welcomes the enormous progress that has occurred in recent years in moving Northern Ireland forward; and looks forward to the programme Sergei Magnitsky of events and activities which will help make Northern Ireland the place to visit in 2012. 5.37 pm Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): I beg to move, That this House notes the passage of the Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Bill through the United States Senate, the Bill to condemn corruption and impunity in Russia in the case and death of Sergei Magnitsky in the House of Commons in Canada, the approval of the resolution of the Dutch Parliament concerning Sergei Magnitsky dated 29 June 2011, and paragraphs I and 20 to 21 of the resolution of the European Parliament of 14 December 2011 on the EU-Russia Summit; and calls on the Government to bring forward equivalent legislative proposals providing for a presumption in favour of asset freezes and travel bans for officials of the Russian state and other countries, wherever the appropriate UK authorities have collected or received evidence that establishes that such officials: (a) were involved in the detention, physical abuse or death of Sergei Magnitsky; (b) participated in efforts to conceal the legal liability for the detention, abuse or death of Sergei Magnitsky; (c) committed the frauds discovered by Sergei Magnitsky; or (d) are responsible for extrajudicial killings, torture or other gross violations of human rights committed in Russia or any other country against any individual seeking to obtain, exercise, defend or promote basic and internationally recognised human rights, including those set out in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights 1966. I first thank the Backbench Business Committee, chaired by the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel), for granting the debate, and the sponsors of the motion representing all three main parties, who include five former Foreign Ministers. I also commend the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), who has consistently raised the matter. The debate was inspired by the brutal death of Sergei Magnitsky, a young Russian lawyer. Between 2007 and 2008, while working for Hermitage Capital, he exposed the biggest tax fraud in Russian history, worth $230 million. His legal team was then subjected to varying forms of intimidation. While other lawyers left Russia, fearing for their lives, Magnitsky stayed on to make a stand for the rule of law in Russia and strike a blow against the breathtaking corruption there. That bravery cost him his life. Magnitsky was arrested in 2008 on trumped-up charges of tax evasion. In Putin’s Kafkaesque Russian justice system, the very tax investigators that Magnitsky had exposed turned up to arrest him. He was dumped in a filthy, freezing and overcrowded cell for eight months and fed putrid meals such as porridge with insect larvae and rotten fish, if and when he was fed at all. In such squalid conditions, he suffered acutely painful bladder and pancreatic problems. Eventually, a year after his arrest, he was transferred to hospital for emergency surgery, but when he arrived he was not treated at all. Instead, he was handcuffed to a bed and beaten by riot police. Doctors found him an hour later, lying on the floor. He was dead. The Russian authorities blocked all attempts to bring those responsible to justice. Sixty people have been implicated in the persecution of Sergei Magnitsky, his 929 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 930

[Mr Dominic Raab] Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD): The hon. Gentleman is making a very powerful case. Does he accept that one client or in the original tax fraud, and they have been of the problems in Russia is that although those in named by the US Commission on Security and positions of leadership can perpetrate crimes against Co-operation in Europe. They include senior officials individuals by using the full undercover agencies of the such as the former deputy Interior Minister and the state with absolute impunity, the one thing they most deputy prosecutor-general. The Moscow Public Oversight value and would not want to lose is the freedom to Commission, a watchdog mandated under Russian law, travel and to use their money, often stolen from the concluded that Magnitsky was tortured to death, but all Russian people, in a life of luxury outside Russia? the suspects were cleared by Russian investigators, some have been promoted and some decorated. In fact, the Mr Raab: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that only people on trial are Magnitsky’s employer and explanation of and rationale for what we are trying to Magnitsky himself, who is now the subject of Russia’s achieve. It is precisely that. We are not seeking to first ever posthumous prosecution. exercise extraterritorial jurisdiction by depriving anyone Sergei Magnitsky joins that noble Russian tradition of their freedom; we are merely saying, “You cannot of dissidents who stood up for the rule of law, democratic come into this country if you have that kind of blood reform and free speech—the tradition of Solzhenitsyn on your hands.” So the motion is not anti-Russia, but and Sakharov through to Anna Politkovskaya—but like pro-Russia. many others who have been silenced for defending just causes throughout the world, Magnitsky stood for more Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con): Will my than just Russia. Such people include Chinese human hon. Friend give way? rights lawyer, Gao Zhisheng, tortured for defending property rights and free speech and currently held Mr Raab: I will not, because time is limited and many incommunicado at an unknown location; photographer others want to speak. Zahra Kazemi, arrested for taking pictures of the families The motion is an expression of solidarity not only of missing protestors in Iran, who gathered outside with freedom fighters around the world, but with legislators Tehran’s notorious Evin prison—she was jailed, tortured in the United States, in Canada, in the Netherlands, in and beaten to death; and Hamza al-Khateeb, who was Sweden, and now in Italy, who are also scrutinising arrested during the Syrian protests last year. A month legislation or calling for Government action to hold to later his mutilated body was returned to his family. He account those responsible for these terrible crimes. was just 13 years old. Let me be clear about this. If we enacted this law, it This motion is about keeping the flame of freedom would not end impunity overnight in Russia or anywhere alive for those brave souls. It calls on the Government else in the world, for that matter, but it would help to to produce legislative proposals similar to the Bill going puncture it. It would express Britain’s disgust and our through the United States Senate with bipartisan support. resolve not to turn a blind eye to such heinous crimes, It targets Sergei Magnitsky’s tormentors, who left a and it would honour those such as Sergei Magnitsky, documentary trail of their crimes, but it would apply who died struggling to keep the flickering light of wherever there was evidence that a state official anywhere freedom in his country alive. was responsible for torture, extrajudicial killing or some other gross human rights abuse, or was complicit in 5.45 pm covering up such activities. The evidence would need to be independently assessed Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): by the Director of Public Prosecutions, by the Attorney- I congratulate the hon. Member for Esher and Walton General or by some other appropriate authority. The (Mr Raab) on securing this debate and commend all designated person would be named and shamed, a stain right hon. and hon. Members who have supported the on any regime that left him or her in post and a spur for motion. reformers at home; they would be banned from entering In all parts of the House, there is strong and unequivocal Britain; and their assets here would be frozen. Of course condemnation of the brutal treatment and alleged murder there would have to be due process to allow anyone to of Sergei Magnitsky. Mr Magnitsky, as the hon. Member challenge their designation, and the Government could for Esher and Walton has explained, was a young make exemptions on the grounds of national interest, Russian lawyer working on behalf of a British firm in but the Secretary of State would have to publicly justify Moscow. He is thought to have uncovered the biggest exempting anyone—a safeguard against misuse. corruption case in Russian history—a case that implicated We would in effect be creating a presumption that politicians, the police, judges, and members of the targeted sanctions be imposed on those responsible for Russian mafia. Days after Mr Magnitsky filed a criminal the worst international crimes against those who defend complaint and testified on the involvement of the tax the freedoms we take for granted in this House and in police, among others, he was arrested on spurious tax this country. We would be sending a clear message that charges by the same tax police officers against whom he those responsible for such atrocities should not be able had testified. He was held in pre-trial detention for to fly into Britain, buy up property in Knightsbridge or nearly a year. In prison, he was mistreated, denied head off down the King’s road for a bit of light Christmas medical treatment and beaten. He died just days before shopping, as if nothing had ever happened. the one-year limit within which he could be held without This motion is not anti-Russia. It is pro-Russia. It is trial expired. an unequivocal affirmation of our solidarity with those As the motion underlines, this is one of several cases Russians who are suffering for having had the temerity in Russia in which human rights defenders and those to question the mafia-ridden practices of Putin’s nasty exposing corruption have been brutally murdered. World- regime. renowned journalist Anna Politkovskaya, human rights 931 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 932 activist Natalya Estemirova, and human rights lawyer Given that the investigation into Mr Magnitsky’s Stanislav Markelov have all been killed in cold blood death opened in November 2009 and has been delayed for pursuing the truth. The brutality of the killings has 11 times since, I hope that the Minister now accepts that even extended beyond Russia’s borders, with the murder the delays are unacceptable. Will he assure me and the of political exile Alexander Litvinenko on British soil House that we will not hear the same wait-and-see five years ago. policy from the Government today? There are good reasons to doubt that the investigative committee will Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): The hon. ever get to the truth of who killed Sergei Magnitsky. A Lady mentions cases including that of Natalya Estemirova. delaying tactic by the Russian Government must not be A couple of years ago, I was fortunate enough to be allowed to become a convenient delaying tactic for our able to travel to Chechnya and, unfortunately, to see at Government. In the light of that, what measures will first hand some of the appalling human rights violations the Government take to increase the pressure on the there, including what had happened about the assassination Russian Government in the Magnitsky case and many of Natalya Estemirova. We may know who is responsible others? in the case of Sergei Magnitsky, but does the hon. Lady Beyond that case, it is important that this debate agree that one of the major problems is that investigations takes account of the broader concerns about the into such cases to get to the root cause of who has horrific conditions in Russian prisons, which are well committed these appalling crimes are not undertaken, documented. According to Russia’s Federal Penitentiary and that we need to use all diplomatic efforts to encourage Service, 4,423 people died in Russian prisons in 2010, the Russian authorities to do so? and a huge number of Russian prisoners suffer and die from tuberculosis. Emma Reynolds: I do agree, and I will turn to the In July last year, President Medvedev’s human rights so-called investigation very soon. council reported that Sergei Magnitsky’s arrest was I have given a shameful list of crimes in which justice unlawful and that his detention was marked by beatings never seems to be done. While those who bring to light and torture aimed at extracting a confession of guilt. allegations of corruption and abuse by the Russian The only action of the Russian authorities in response state run a high risk of being murdered, those responsible to that evidence has been a decision to put the dead for their murders appear to run little risk of being victim back on trial. That is unprecedented in Russian caught and punished. On the contrary, they seem to legal history. It is not only a grotesque parody of justice, operate in a climate of impunity. These cases must be but a gesture of contempt for the international community accounted for by the Russian Government. and the human rights norms on which it is built. The case of Mr Magnitsky has rightly been condemned The motion refers to the international covenant on around the world. Motions similar to the one that we civil and political rights, reminding us that raising human are debating are being considered in other Parliaments rights issues is not about interfering in the affairs of the in Europe, notably in Italy, Poland, the Netherlands Russian Government, but is a way of holding Russia to and Sweden; and the European Parliament has agreed its international obligations. Russia has signed the European on a resolution. A private member’s bill has been presented convention on human rights, the universal declaration to the Canadian Parliament, and in the US, Senators of human rights, the charter of Paris and the EU-Russia Cardin and McCain have introduced a bill in the Senate. partnership and co-operation agreement, to name but a Our debate is about what the British Government are few. In signing each of those agreements, Russia made a able or willing to do about the Magnitsky case and solemn commitment to respect human rights. As a others in which a culture of impunity prevails. result, it has enjoyed the privileges that go with being a In the UK, we have a long and proud tradition on member of the international community. It is therefore human rights. A Conservative politician, David Maxwell reasonable to ask whether the Russian Government are Fyfe, was instrumental in drafting and introducing the living up to their side of the bargain. European convention on human rights. Right hon. and Turning to foreign affairs, Russia is a permanent hon. Members on both sides of the House have been member of the UN Security Council and is soon to outspoken on the Magnitsky case and on other human become a member of the World Trade Organisation. It rights abuses. Britain cannot turn a blind eye to the has a key role to play in foreign policy in aiding the Magnitsky case. stability of Afghanistan and preventing Iran from becoming I sincerely hope that the Minister, in responding to a nuclear power. Russia’s role is also important in the the motion on behalf of the Government, will not case of Syria. As the Minister said this weekend, its repeat the same line that that we have heard countless refusal to co-operate with the international community times—namely, that it would be inappropriate to comment is prolonging the horrific situation in Syria. on this case until the official Russian investigation has In conclusion, we recognise that only 22 years have reached a conclusion. That goes back to the point made elapsed since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the by the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson). 70-year domination of communism, and that a period In June last year, a Home Office Minister, the hon. of deep economic turmoil accompanied the transition. Member for Ashford (Damian Green), said that the We want to see Russia back on the path of reform, not British Government were waiting on the report of the going backwards, which is what the cases of Sergei Russian investigation, which was due in August last Magnitsky and many others demonstrate. We want a year. In January this year, the Under-Secretary of State successful, open, democratic Russia, free of endemic for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the hon. Member corruption, where the rule of law is protected, not for North West Norfolk (Mr Bellingham), restated that eroded; a Russia that has a strong voice in the world position and said that the investigation was now expected and that works with the international community, not to report on 24 January. against it. 933 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 934

[Emma Reynolds] Alistair Burt: I want to give way only a couple of times, in order to protect others’ time, but I will happily In the run-up to Sunday’s presidential elections, Vladimir give way to the hon. Gentleman. Putin promised to root out corruption and to guarantee human rights. We want to see those promises delivered. Chris Bryant: I will be very brief. I just want to know If the Russian Government do not put Russia back on whether the Minister is going to support the motion. the path of reform, their economy is likely to stagnate, their population will continue to decline, discontent will Alistair Burt: I ask the hon. Gentleman to listen to grow, and Russia’s stability will be at risk. That is not in my remarks, and then he will understand the position Russia’s interests, nor is it in ours. that the Government take. We support the motion as a signal of our condemnation Most Members are familiar with the circumstances of the impunity for those who disregard human rights of Mr Magnitsky’s death, but I will give the Government’s in Russia and our condemnation of those who are view. Mr Magnitsky, a Russian lawyer working for responsible for Sergei Magnitsky’s death. We urge the Hermitage Capital Management, was arrested in November Government to continue to press the Russian authorities 2008 and taken into pre-trial detention, where he died using all the available channels and all the upcoming nearly a year later. Before his arrest, Mr Magnitsky had opportunities, including through the European Union. been working to uncover an alleged tax fraud against It is important to note that the motion sets out steps the Russian state by certain law enforcement officials. that go beyond the precedents set by this and previous He had given evidence against a number of Interior Governments in acting on such matters. We are less Ministry officials accused of tax fraud, and a number of convinced by those points and urge the Government to the same individuals are alleged to have become involved reflect on how best to exert influence on the Russian in Mr Magnitsky’s investigation and detention. Government to encourage them to meet their human In July 2011 the Russian presidential council on rights obligations, including in the Magnitsky case. human rights published a report, which found that However, we share and echo the overriding emphasis of Mr Magnitsky had been denied medical treatment and the motion. It unites the House in its condemnation of beaten while in detention. Both those abuses contributed the criminal and brutal acts perpetrated against a brave directly to his death. No one has yet been held to and committed man. It rightly calls for pressure to be account for his death by the Russian authorities. The increased on the Russian Government to deal with the Russian investigative committee, which leads the criminal case in a fair and just manner, without delay and investigation into his death, appears to have made little without equivocation. progress, which we regret. The publication of its findings 5.54 pm on Mr Magnitsky’s death has been postponed four times in 2011 and 2012, and the findings are currently The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign due to be issued on 24 April. The lack of progress on and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair Burt): I begin by the case is deeply troubling for all who care about thanking my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and human rights and about Russia. Walton (Mr Raab) and others for raising this important subject and securing the Back-Bench debate. I also We raise our concerns about the case with the Russian thank the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North authorities at all levels, as the hon. Member for East (Emma Reynolds) for her remarks. I will listen Wolverhampton North East suggested we should. The carefully to Members who speak in the debate. I am Prime Minister discussed it with President Medvedev conscious that many colleagues wish to speak, so I will during his visit to Moscow in September, and most try to keep my remarks to 10 minutes or so, but I assure recently the Minister for Europe raised it with his Members that I will stay for the rest of the debate and opposite number Titov in late January. He urged the reflect carefully on the matters raised. Russian authorities to complete a swift, thorough and transparent investigation into Mr Magnitsky’s death I express my profound sympathy, on behalf of the with no further delay, and that is the position of the UK Government and all Members, to the relatives and Government. friends of Sergei Magnitsky. The circumstances of his death are deeply troubling, as my hon. Friend the There is no doubt that the case has wider implications Member for Esher and Walton set out. The fact that no on the rule of law and respect for human rights in one has been held to account for it is a matter of serious Russia. Indeed, that is the premise of today’s debate. concern to the Government, and we raise the issue with Mr Magnitsky’s death in pre-trial detention is not an the Russian authorities at the highest levels and at isolated incident but a fate shared by about 50 to frequent intervals. It is important that those responsible 60 people in Russia every year. The initiative behind the are brought to justice, and we urge the authorities to do motion speaks to an instinct that we in government, that. The issue is wider, however. The death of Sergei and all of us in Parliament, share—to defend human Magnitsky serves as a stark reminder of the human rights, condemn those who abuse them and tackle a rights situation in Russia and the questions about the culture of impunity for those who do so, wherever it rule of law there. My remarks will cover both the exists. The Foreign Secretary has always been clear that specific and the general. human rights are at the heart of the Government’s work around the world. As he has said, they are The presidential elections are now behind us. A new Government are coming in, and we shall engage with “part of our national DNA and will be woven deeply into the them with determination to secure justice for Sergei decision-making processes of our foreign policy”. Magnitsky and to address the wider issues at stake. The motion proposes that the UK should adopt a presumption in favour of travel bans and asset freezes Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Will the Minister give for Russian officials allegedly implicated in Mr Magnitsky’s way? death. It starts with the Magnitsky case but goes beyond 935 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 936 it, envisaging the application of that presumption to observation mission gave a positive assessment of voting individuals charged with similar abuses in other countries. on election day, it identified problems with counting at We are aware of the developments in other countries to some polling stations, unequal campaign conditions which the motion refers. A Bill has been introduced to and limitations on voter choice. Those issues should not the US Congress, and in the Parliaments of the Netherlands be overlooked. A Russia with greater political freedoms, and Canada there have been discussions in support of including the registration of political parties, freedom visa bans against officials allegedly implicated in of assembly and freedom of the media, is in the interests Mr Magnitsky’s death. However, we are not aware that of Russians and the wider world. I take the point of my the Netherlands or Canada has taken action further to hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton that the the discussions in their respective legislatures. I understand motion is about and for the benefit of Russia, not a that the US Bill is still being discussed in the Senate. We criticism of Russia. cannot predict whether it will come into force or what It is a time of great opportunity for civil society in form it might take if and when it becomes law. If Russia to help bring about evolutionary change. Civil Congress passes the Bill and the President approves it, society has shown its considerable energy in recent we shall certainly look closely to ascertain whether months. We will work closely with the Russian authorities there are lessons on which we might draw. and Russian NGOs to encourage developments in a On travel bans, hon. Members will know that positive direction on human rights in the coming months immigration rules enable us to refuse a visa when, for and years, and we will continue to work at all levels to example, information on an individual’s character, conduct achieve justice for Sergei Magnitsky. or associations makes entry to the UK undesirable. Entering the UK is a privilege, not a right. Equally, asset freezes can be deployed against individuals when 6.3 pm those measures would effect meaningful change. Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I congratulate the The House will also appreciate—here I must repeat hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) on words stated by the Government and previous securing the debate. It is important that it is on a Governments—that the UK has a long-established and motion because the Government must decide what they globally consistent practice of not commenting routinely will do. They must decide whether to support it, and on individual cases. The Government and previous thus take the action that it demands of them. Governments have pursued that policy, and it remains Several attempts have been made to try to ensure that our approach. the debate never came to pass. The Russian ambassador In the cases of Mr Magnitsky and others, we want in London attempted to repress a previous debate, the Russian Government to ensure that justice is done which my right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham and measures to be put in place to prevent such cases (Mr MacShane), a former Minister for Europe, led. I from happening again. More broadly, the Government know that the Russian ambassador also tried to ensure remain concerned about the rights afforded to ordinary that you, Mr Speaker, stopped today’s debate happening. Russian citizens and have been clear that more should That shows a complete misunderstanding of the political be done to address them. process in this country and the need for democratic and open debate. No ambassador should write to the Speaker To that end, we have a twin-track approach to human of this House to try to prevent a debate. It is perfectly rights in Russia. First, we promote dialogue bilaterally, legitimate for us to debate what we choose to debate. raising cases at the highest levels. Our annual human rights dialogues with Russian officials give a clear opportunity to voice our concerns and track progress. Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): This is extremely important. I have already had to intervene on Secondly, we support non-governmental organisations this with Mr Speaker after the Russian embassy put on that are working on those critical issues. For example, its website a statement attacking me as a parliamentarian we are working with the Russian NGO, Social Partnership for raising the Magnitsky case. Someone has to talk to Foundation, to address the problem of deaths in pre-trial this Russian ambassador and tell him crudely to butt detention. This financial year, we have spent £1.25 million out of House of Commons business. on projects supporting human rights and democracy. Our work on human rights is wide ranging. Priorities Chris Bryant: I had already made that point, but I include: better support and protection for human rights wholeheartedly agree with my right hon. Friend that we defenders; supporting increased monitoring and reporting will discuss what we want. I very much hope that of human rights abuses, and urging the Russian nothing is put in the way of the all-party group when we Government to investigate fully the unresolved murders go to Russia so that we can meet not only members of of journalists and human rights defenders. The low the Government, but members of the opposition. success rate in prosecuting those responsible for the crimes perpetuates the perception of impunity. There are two basic problems in Russia at the moment, the first of which is the impunity that attends so much This week, we were encouraged to hear that President criminality. Hon. Members have referred to Anna Medvedev has asked for a review of the trial of Mikhail Politkovskaya, but many other journalists have been Khodorkovsky. We will follow progress on that with murdered. Had journalists been murdered in this country, interest. everybody around the world would have been howling Political rights are an integral part of the picture. As and demanding justice. Similarly, we are unable to get the Foreign Secretary highlighted this week in his statement justice for the murder of Mr Litvinenko, because Russia on the Russian presidential elections, while the Organisation maintains that no extradition is allowed for any Russian for Security and Co-operation in Europe and the Office citizen. That prevents justice and means impunity for for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights election those in Russia. 937 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 938

[Chris Bryant] The Minister’s speech, in effect, was a speech against the motion. [Interruption.] It certainly was not a speech The second problem is the regular, systemic state in favour of the motion, and in this House a Member abuse of the criminal justice system in Russia, which can only make a speech in favour or against a motion, has meant that Mikhail Khodorkovsky has been imprisoned because, in end, we either allow the motion to pass, on spurious charges—Amnesty International has declared which means voting for it, or we vote against it. him and Platon Lebedev as prisoners of conscience. It is right that we pursue such issues to try to ensure that Alistair Burt: To clarify, the Government are not there is a proper criminal justice system in Russia, and opposing the motion, as the hon. Gentleman knows. one that does not depend on torture. I must confess that the Government’s response tonight Chris Bryant: I am delighted with that. I think, in that is very disappointing. For a start, I did not know that case, the hon. Member for Esher and Walton has secured our foreign policy was to wait for the United States of an important victory. However, it is regularly the case America to make up its mind in its Senate and Congress now, in these Back-Bench business debates, that the on what it will do about immigration before we decide Government allow the motion to pass because they what we will do. We should be free to make our own know they would lose the vote, and then do absolutely decision, particularly because the one thing many significant nothing about what the House has resolved. That brings Russians in the Putin regime value above all else is the the House and the Government into disrepute. I hope, ability to travel to London. London is the place where therefore, that if the motion is agreed to—it sounds as they like to do their banking and shopping, and where though it will be, if the Government are supporting their families like to go for their education, and so on. it—the Government will take forward everything laid Ensuring that the people involved in the murder of out in the motion. I hope that they will have a timetable Sergei Magnitsky and the corruption he unveiled are for implementing that by the end of the year. unable to come to this country is a vital part of ramming Everybody in the House wants to do better business home to the Russian Government that we want better with Russia. Every businessman I have known who has relations with them and that we want to do more done business in Russia has said that the biggest problem business with them, but that we can do so only when is the financial and political corruption, which makes it human rights are respected and corruption weeded out. difficult for them to do clean business, and no business, especially since the Bribery Act 2010 was passed, wants Mr Burley: The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful to do dirty business. I say to Mr Putin that now is a case. On exactly that point, is not the other advantage unique opportunity for him to show a change of mind of the motion that it will help to counter the impression and of tack on human rights and political rights, and it that is forming among many British people that we are is a unique opportunity for this Government to move becoming a safe haven for all sorts of Russian crooks forward and ensure that the Russians seize that opportunity. and gangsters? Chris Bryant: That cuts both ways, because another Several hon. Members rose— problem with how the Russians use the criminal justice system is that they try to extradite many people from Mr Speaker: I am extremely grateful to the hon. this country whom they claim are criminals. One such Gentleman. There is great interest in the debate, so to person is Mr Zakayev, who was accused of murdering a maximise the number of contributors in the short time Russian Orthodox priest. The said Russian Orthodox available, I am afraid that I must impose, with immediate priest stood up in court and gave evidence that he had effect, a six-minute limit on Back-Bench contributions. not been murdered. In all cases thus far in which extradition from the United Kingdom has been sought, 6.11 pm the judge has decided that the case has been proceeded Sir Malcolm Rifkind (Kensington) (Con): May I first with not on the ground of seeking justice, but on purely reassure the right hon. Member for Rotherham political grounds. That is something we must deal with. (Mr MacShane) that the Russian ambassador knows I am certain that the Government are not allowing perfectly well that he will have no influence in the any of those people in. From all the nudge-nudge, House of Commons? He is anxious that his bosses in wink-winks I have had—[Interruption.] I got a nod Moscow see that he has done everything in his power to from the Minister just now—[Interruption.] No,heis make their views known. just brushing his nose. It is clear from other Ministers I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and from those nudges and winks that the Government and Walton (Mr Raab) on giving the House the opportunity have no intention of letting any of those people into to consider a matter that has already been debated in this country, but it is now time for them to say so many other Parliaments around the world. That is openly.That would make a significant difference. Ministers much to his credit. This debate is primarily about the trot out the line that no Government ever talk about personal tragedy of Sergei Magnitsky and his family. whether people are being refused entry to this country, Magnitsky was a man of extraordinary courage and but that is not true. integrity, a symbol of the new Russia, both in his life Alistair Burt: Routinely. and, sadly, in his death. He was a representative of the new Russia. The people who murdered him were symbols Chris Bryant: I am not asking the Minister to do it of the old Russia and, in some ways, the old Soviet routinely. I am asking him to do it in this specific set of Union. circumstances, because I think it would be profoundly To a significant degree, in some ways I am more successful in transforming the views of the Russian disturbed by what happened to Magnitsky than by what regime. used to happen in the old Soviet Union. The Soviet 939 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 940

Union made no pretence of being anything other than a The final thing that I would like to say in this short totalitarian state. It had no interest in the rule of law as debate is simply this. By approving the motion of my we understand it. Indeed, on this issue, I suspect that it hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Walton, we are would have reacted quite differently from Mr Putin and not only showing solidarity with all those fighting for Mr Medvedev. The Politburo would not have tolerated the rule of law in Russia, which is just as an important the state theft of $230 million from the Treasury by as the creation of a pluralist democracy but saying to public officials acting in a criminal fashion. Mr Magnitsky’s family—we cannot say it directly to President Medvedev would have us believe that Russia Mr Magnitsky himself—that we honour his memory is now a country of the rule of law, but we know very and his achievements, and we are doing what we can to well that in practice that is sadly not the case. Instead of help what he tried to achieve. moving towards belief in the rule of law, Russia is moving towards being a society that might very well be tolerating a relationship between the Russian state and 6.17 pm organised crime that is deep and serious, and which Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): It is a pleasure extends to the highest levels of Russian society. That is a to follow the right hon. and learned Member for Kensington serious accusation to make, but the facts seem to point (Sir Malcolm Rifkind), because my heart soared when in that direction. he spoke in Foreign Office questions in January to call First, as I indicated, this has been no minor act of for the public naming of the 60 officials associated with theft from private individuals, companies or some local Magnitsky’s death. I congratulate the hon. Member for department. The theft involved, by public officials, was Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) on securing this debate on from the Russian Treasury of $230 million. Of course, the Floor of the House. scandals happen in other countries. The test is the Just as my heart soared when I heard the right hon. reaction of the Government to such situations. Not and learned Gentleman, it sank when I heard the official only has no serious effort been made to identify, try and Foreign Office brief read out at the Dispatch Box this punish those responsible for the theft, but the opposite evening. The Minister of State knows that I am a fan of has happened: the person who exposed the fraud was his, but in this case I urge him and the Foreign Secretary himself persecuted, and at the end of the day was to make it clear that they are Ministers with a democratic murdered. That is a very sad situation. Medvedev and duty to speak up for the House of Commons, which Putin have gone through the motions of punishing now wants clear action to be taken. It is nonsense to say some minor officials, but instead of praising Magnitsky that we have not named people banned from coming for what he did, he has been persecuted. into this country. We have named Martha Stewart, the I do not necessarily suggest that Mr Putin or President cook, for goodness’ sake. We also named George Raft, Medvedev were personally involved, but there are only the actor, and Pablo Neruda, the Chilean Nobel prize two possible explanations for their failure to respond. laureate. If they were good enough to be named, so too The first is that they are impotent to do so. That may be can some of these Russian thugs. true of Medvedev, but I frankly cannot believe that I am not proposing a policy of latter day Palmerstonian Mr Putin is anything other than able to have responded, “advocatus Britannicus sum”, or “Because I am a lawyer if he had so wished, in the most fundamental way, to representing British interests, I must have some special identify not only the perpetrators of the crimes against protection.” I am saying that, as we develop and shape Mr Magnitsky, but the theft from the Russian state. The our diplomacy in challenging and difficult times, we only other explanation has to be that, for reasons of have to leave some rusty old tools in the Foreign Office their own, those at the highest levels of the Russian toolbox firmly locked up and sharpen our approach. Government are prepared to tolerate criminality of the most serious kind, because there is a sufficient common I am not going to repeat the comments on the nature interest between those who have political power and of the Russian state that have already been well made those who wield power through organised crime to by other hon. Members. I am not sure that it consists make doing what they did preferable to taking action of solely of a relationship between politicians and criminals. the kind that should have been taken. Russia is not a functioning constitutional, democratic I do not underestimate the seriousness of what I am state that observes the rule of law. There is no distinction saying, but if we could see Magnitsky’s fate as an between political and business life there, or between isolated incident, one might be more charitable about state employees and those who run enterprises of any the policy of the current Russian Government. However, sort. Mr Putin is the chief executive officer of an as has been said, from the Opposition Front Bench and enterprise, and his Russia exists in order to enrich him by others, there are so many cases of flagrant disregard and those associated with him, going right down through for the rule of law. It is the blatant political interference the state machine. This is vertical power, and what in the judicial system—which goes way beyond the happened to Magnitsky was not a sequence of accidents; tragedies of the Magnitsky case—that is important. For it was authorised at a very high level. some time now, Mr Putin and Mr Medvedev have been The campaign is important, but where are the British alleging that the fate of Khodorkovsky was nothing to lawyers? In the 1970s, when Russian psychiatrists were do with politics, but entirely to do with his breach of the abusing their medical professionalism by signing off on criminal law. The timing of the decision to review his dissidents being imprisoned for being mentally disabled, case could not have been more political, and illustrates the British and American legal and psychiatric professions that those who were responsible for putting him in rose as one to condemn them and expel them from prison may now be realising that the reaction that that international associations. Where are the British lawyers created throughout the world means it is time to allow today? Why are they not standing up for their fellow him to be released. solicitor or fellow silk in Russia? 941 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 942

[Mr Denis MacShane] because he was a principled man who exposed officials as thieves, when a huge amount of money to be paid in We need to look at the broader question of how we tax to the Russian state disappeared overnight. Overnight, deal with Russia. The snow revolution might have petered those officials, politicians, police officers and tax inspectors out on Sunday, but Russians have lost their fear and suddenly became very rich individuals indeed. That is passivity as they look upon Putin as another long-serving the simple, tragic background to what we are discussing leader. Such leaders exist in western, democratic countries today, but the ramifications reach far further. too but, as with Helmut Kohl, Mrs Thatcher and A ruling elite has sprung out of the chaos in Russia Mr Mubarak, there comes a moment when the fear has during the 1990s, and it preaches to the masses nationalism gone. I believe that Britain should also lose its fear of and pride in a powerful Russian state. At the same time, speaking up for democracy in action, and take consequent this ruling elite is weakening its own country through actions. corruption, nepotism and greed. That contradiction is Under the 70 years of sovietised Russia, very few not for us in this House to solve. It is not our affair; we Russians could travel, but during the Yeltsin and Putin have no powers over Russian business. Proud Russian years, we have gone back to the pre-1917 tsarist days people, furthermore, do not take kindly to foreign when the rich of Russia came here, bought villas and interventions into their domestic affairs. The British were educated at Oxford, and Prince Obolensky scored Council would be able to inform us about that. great tries for England. Now, they are back in town. I The British Government and this House, however, have no particular objection to them, but the one thing have influence over who enters this country and who that they will understand is being told that they no crosses our borders, and over our domestic affairs, longer have an entry ticket into London. particularly in respect of foreign visitors. We do not I want to make a tiny party political point. I do wish have an entirely open border policy for Russian that the Conservatives would quit their alliance with citizens. Indeed, I have been told that the visa regime Putin’s stooges at the Council of Europe. They are there between the two countries can make for an incredibly for different reasons, and I am not going to go into any tiresome process. On rare occasions, we reserve the right of that now, but it is embarrassing that some of our to say to particular citizens of the Russian Federation colleagues and friends sit with the Russians in our main that they are not welcome in the UK and we can deny human rights body in Europe, at which the Russians are them a visa. present and can be held to account. The Russians get a Is there any greater indication that someone’s presence free ride there. in the UK is not welcome or desired in this country I would also like to ask some of our journalists to than the fact that we are dealing with thieves, murderers, stop being Putin’s little helpers. If our poor Prime torturers and corrupt individuals? Yet, as my hon. Minister goes for a ride on a horse, it makes the front Friend the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) page of The Times, and everyone mocks him and scorns said, the fact that these people can just pop into our him and says it is very serious. If Putin pulls on an ice country to do a bit of Christmas shopping is distasteful hockey shirt and does a bit of midnight ice hockey, the in the extreme. At the very least, we need to put some editor of The Times is there, swooning at the feet of this process in place to make sure that they are refused entry majestic specimen of manhood. I do not expect the at the border. Chelsea football club programme, or The Independent On Sunday, Vladimir Putin was elected President of or the Evening Standard, to be tough on Russia, but I the Russian Federation for a third term. Mr Putin is think that the rest of our papers could be a bit harder known and recognised for his patriotic pride, and the on it. right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) I finish by quoting Anna Politkovskaya. At the end of spoke about how Putin often displays this in taking off her book, “A Russian Diary”, published after her murder his shirt, attending ice hockey events or throwing in in 2006, she wrote of Putin: curling events to show us what a big proud man he is. “So far there is no sign of change. The state authorities remain He resents interference in Russian politics from anywhere deaf to all warning from the people. They live their own life, their outside Russia, which makes it ironic that the Russian faces permanently twisted by greed and by irritation that anybody ambassador thinks that this matter is unique to Russia. should try to prevent them from getting even richer. Our state These Russians feel that they can interfere in what authorities are only interested in making money. If anyone thinks happens in our politics by trying to prevent this debate they can take comfort from the optimistic forecast, let them do so. from taking place. It is certainly the easier way, but it is also a death sentence for our grandchildren.” Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Did the Russian ambassador 6.23 pm write to you to try to prevent this debate? Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): I am not a member of the all-party group, and I have never spoken Mr Speaker: I am grateful for that point of order. I in this place about anything to do with Russia. However, hope that the clock will be held so that the time available I recently chaired a meeting at which Sergei Magnitsky’s to the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine former employer spoke, in detail and with emotion and Dorries) will not be reduced. depth, about Sergei’s life and death. It was impossible I can tell the House that I received a letter from the not to be moved, which is why I have come to speak in Russian ambassador, drawing my attention to what he the debate today and to make a case for our Government regarded as the errors contained in the motion and the to support the motion. That man died in the most merit of what he thought to be that fact—I emphasise horrific circumstances and he was the most principled that this was what he thought to be that fact—being of people. Sergei Magnitsky was killed by corrupt officials communicated to the sponsors of the debate. I replied 943 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 944 to the ambassador, noting his letter and underlining to point, with evidence, to those involved in the theft of him that he must not expect me, as an impartial Speaker, $230 million from Russian taxpayers, he made a statement to comment on the contents of either the letter or the naming those involved. That did not happen by the motion. I reminded him of the date of the debate, and way; it happened after months of investigation and indicated that if he wished to communicate his views in discussion with many witnesses. The evidence that Sergei writing to the sponsors of the debate, it was open to him had would clearly have put people in jail if it had been to do so. I hope that my meaning was clear—that this heard in a British court, but it did not do so in Russia. House debates what it wants to debate and that if other Sergei was arrested by the subordinates of those people wish to send letters, they can send letters, but it is whom he had named as being involved within the not the responsibility of the Speaker to act as a post police, but refused to back down and retract his allegations. person. He was imprisoned in a cell with eight inmates and four beds—a cell with no windows in the cold November Nadine Dorries: Mr Putin does not want Russia to be Moscow winter—and was then moved to cells with no treated any less fairly than any other country in respect toilets, containing raw sewage. After continuing to refuse of trade, defence or intelligence. That is fair enough, to withdraw his allegations, he was moved from prison but he cannot expect Russia to be given any special to prison approximately 10 times. With each move, his treatment. Criminals—thieves, and those who have property—not that he had much—disappeared, including, committed gross violations of human rights—are not on the occasion of his last move, a water boiler that was welcome in the United Kingdom, no matter what passport essential to purify the harmful drinking water. they hold, and such criminals who happened to be British would be pursued to the full extent of the law. After six months of that mistreatment, Sergei became ill, lost almost 3 stone in weight, and was diagnosed Russia is held in deep affection in my office. Culturally, with pancreatitis and gallstones. Both are treatable I am in awe of the country. Ilya Repin is one of my conditions, and in a British jail he would have lived, but favourite artists. He was introduced to me by a master because in the Russian jail it did not suit the authorities at Winchester college, Paul Thomas, when I went to for him to get better, he did not. When he again refused speak there some years ago, and ever since then we have to withdraw his complaint, he was denied medical treatment taken an interest in Russia—perhaps not quite as deep despite 20 formal requests, and was sent to a maximum- an interest as is taken in a certain Liberal Democrat security prison with no hospital where, after screaming Member’s office, but a deep interest none the less. in agony for days, he was eventually moved to solitary However, that does not blind me to the faults of the confinement, chained to a bed, and beaten to death by Russian Government. What greater fault can a Government eight men on 16 November 2009. have than not only failing to protect their citizens, but being the agent through which they suffer, and protecting I ask Members to think about that date. I remember those criminals instead of the victims? I support the clearly what I was doing on 16 November 2009. I was motion wholeheartedly. doing my former job in the Northern Ireland Assembly, debating child poverty and trying to move Northern Ireland forward, while that young man was being beaten 6.30 pm to death for being an honest man and for daring to Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I too support the stand up to those in power. I ask Members, “What were motion, and thank the hon. Member for Esher and you doing on that date?” They may not recall exactly Walton (Mr Raab) for initiating it. It is surely not a where they were on 16 November 2009, but I ask the coincidence that the debate is taking place just after the question for a reason. Russian election. Indeed, it could be said to be pertinent, Just as I stood up for children’s rights to live a life given that claims of corruption and vote-tampering without poverty in the Assembly in 2009, today I must seem to be legion. stand up in the House of Commons for a man who told When I began to research the case of Sergei Magnitsky, the truth. I stand up against those who perpetrated the I felt as though I was reading a far-fetched conspiracy act, and who, rather than being punished, have been theory novel by someone like John le Carré. The difference rewarded and promoted. I stand up against those who is that this is not fiction but fact. It happened, but as yet now seek to continue the torture of Sergei’s family by it has remained unchecked and unpunished. I am a charging him after his death with the very crimes that great believer in the sovereignty of individual countries. his evidence showed others to have committed, and I I believe that Europe interferes in our judicial system hope that the House will do the same. I stand here as a far too often, and it is not often that I would try to proud British man who is not prepared to continue to make contact with another judicial system, but when reward those who perpetrated this act against this young the corruption is as blatant as this, and when those man—and against the people of Russia—and who believes involved are as unrepentant as they are, I believe that it we must take our place on the global stage and condemn is my duty as a Member of Parliament—and, let me what has happened. We must ensure that those involved respectfully add, the duty of the House as well—to do not have immunity and will not be free to travel to, stand up and be counted, and to say, “This is not right”. or engage in enterprise in, our country, as the hon. What happened in the case of Sergei Magnitsky was Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries) said. and is not right. This young man of 37 was simply There are times when the world must condemn another doing his job when he came across intrigue at the country’s decisions. This is one such time. We must highest levels, and instead of taking a step back, he condemn Russia’s determined protection of those who stood up and paid the ultimate price. The father of two were involved in either perpetrating or facilitating the was a hard worker, an intelligent man who believed in theft of $230 million in taxes and the unjustified truth, and when he uncovered a criminal web as a result imprisonment, torture and eventual murder of Sergei of 14 months of solid investigation and was able to Magnitsky. 945 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 946

[Jim Shannon] bear in mind that in my own lifetime Russia was a terrifying Stalinist dictatorship where people could be I fully support the motion and ask that we all uphold shot for expressing their point of view, so let us at least the ethics of this young, courageous man who said that acknowledge that there has been some progress. Even he would not allow such things to happen in his country. 22 years ago it was a stultifying one-party state. We must not allow those involved to enter, or benefit in any way from, our country. We must send out the clear Chris Bryant: So was Spain, but the changes in that message that we will side with the United States, Canada country have been much more dramatic and serious. and Holland in standing up for what is right. The Did the hon. Gentleman not see the reports of people British Government must act on behalf of Sergei Magnitsky. who work for the Russian state being told that if they did not hand over a postal ballot form for somebody 6.35 pm else to vote on their behalf, they would lose their jobs? Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): I am glad Mr Leigh: Well, we had accreditation and we were that we are having this opportunity to discuss this allowed to go and see all the absentee voting rolls. In the disturbing case, as it is very important that we do so. polling stations I visited, the absentee voting rolls were The death of Sergei Magnitsky in prison, when guilty of only about 10% of the total. Even if 10% of them were no crime, makes us appreciate living in a society where fraudulent or represented votes made under pressure we enjoy rule of law. That he was ever imprisoned in the from others, that could not significantly have affected first place shows that Russia still has a long way to go if the result. I am afraid that, whether we like it or not, in it is fully to leave behind the stark inhumanity of the the polling station where I saw the count Putin won Soviet period and reach the sunlit uplands of being a clearly. That leads to the question we have to ask well-constituted, constitutional state. ourselves: is Putin the bar to liberal pluralist democracy There has been progress, however, although it has that my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for been limited. We should welcome the Russian investigative Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind) described in his committee’s acknowledgment that Sergei died because excellent article earlier this week in The Daily Telegraph, of the conduct of the authorities who imprisoned him, or is there some evidence that the reason why he is quite and a criminal case has opened against the two doctors popular in Russia is that not all Russians want pluralist involved. It is disturbing, of course, that there have been liberal democracy? I make no defence of that point of delays, and it is ridiculous that Mr Magnitsky is now view; I just ask that question. In his article, my right posthumously back on trial. hon. and learned Friend said that However, this debate also gives us an opportunity to “the only opponents permitted to stand in the election were the discuss what is going on in Russia at present. Ever since Communists and an unelectable oligarch”, marrying my half-Russian wife, I have taken a deep but all the parties represented in the Duma were allowed interest in Russia. I have no interest to declare, as she is to stand. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Rhondda not linked in any way with anyone associated with Putin (Chris Bryant) laughs; I do not pretend that the election or the Soviet era. Her family was expelled in 1917, was perfect, but progress is being made. We have to despite donating the Michael palace—or, perhaps, because acknowledge that there were other candidates. of that—where my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries) can see the Repin Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I think the masterpieces. hon. Gentleman is putting too positive a gloss on this. May I remind him of the case of Grigory Yavlinsky, the I have long been interested in Russia, therefore, which candidate of the Liberal Democrats’ sister party in is why I was delighted to be asked by the Council of Liberal International in Russia, Yabloko? He was simply Europe to go there this week as one of its official denied the opportunity to stand by an electoral commission. observers. I think I am the only Member to have been in It was not a fair election. Russia this week; I have been there for the past five days. I travelled there full of cynicism about what is going on Mr Leigh: I immediately acknowledge that, and I do in Russia, and with concerns about Mr Putin’s party, not condone the exclusion of any candidate from standing and I should state at the outset that I do not condone in or the lack of prime-time airtime for Opposition candidates. any way the restriction on the number of candidates or I do not pretend it is a perfect democracy, but the the lack of airtime for Opposition candidates—they House of Commons has to appreciate that this is still an had some airtime, but not in prime time. infinitely freer election than has happened in the past in On Sunday, I spent 13 hours visiting polling stations Russia. At least some progress has been made; let us not in a rather drab suburb of St Petersburg, and I was knock that. impressed. Frankly, there is democracy working there. I There has been talk about the case of Mikhail was out at the polling stations before dawn, seeing the Khordokovsky. I do not defend the tumbling and the transparent ballot boxes being opened. The count was show trial of that oligarch, but we have to remember operated not by party officials, but by local people, what happened under Mr Yeltsin’s rule. He sold off the mainly teachers. As far as I could see, it was done family silver to his friends, cronies and supporters, and properly, according to the rules. I talked, through an there was no limit to the power of the oligarchs under interpreter, to many observers from all parties, who him. I do not defend the trial, but Mr Putin was clearly were present at all times. I saw the votes being counted. sending a political message to the Russian people that Generally, the atmosphere was good, and I saw no no oligarch is above the rule of law. intimidating police presence. I therefore want to rebalance the debate slightly. Sir Malcolm Rifkind: My hon. Friend might make that There has been a lot of Russia-bashing and Putin-bashing argument regarding the first conviction, but what message so far. I make no defence of the regime, but we must was Mr Putin sending by bringing Mr Khordokovsky 947 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 948 to trial a second time, after he had served his has an obligation to lead the campaign. The example sentence, and having him sentenced to many more years being set by legislators in the United States, the Netherlands in prison? and Canada is one that we should and can follow. The world has changed since the 1970s and the Mr Leigh: Straight away, I make no defence of that, 1980s—the hon. Member for Gainsborough is right but we have to appreciate the internal politics going on about that. Democracy has flourished in Latin America, in Russia. That is all I am trying to do. I do not think we eastern Europe, the Caucasus, Africa and Asia, and we should indulge ourselves, pleasant as it may be, in Putin hope that it will now flourish in the middle east and phobia, which is sometimes nourished in our own north Africa, too. Russia has been part of the process. commentariat. There are double standards and the It is undoubtedly a freer country than was the Soviet democracy is not perfect, but unfortunately many of Union, yet the implication of all the issues we are the Russians to whom I and others have spoken conclude discussing is that democracy is, if anything, in danger that the west would rather see a Russia that is poor, and potentially going in reverse in Russia, in a way that weak and unstable as long as it subscribes to our it is not in eastern Europe, Latin America or even notions of liberal democracy—and it is not for us to Africa. lecture them—instead of a Russia that is rich, influential It is right that we are increasingly intolerant of human and stable. That is primarily what they want. They rights abuses worldwide, whether committed by monsters might not share all our views about liberal democracy, such as Joseph Kony of the Lord’s Resistance Army in but ordinary Russians whom one can talk to in the central Africa, or murderous regimes such as that of street are primarily interested in their pensions and Bashar al-Assad. Some mechanisms are useful against their quality of life, which has improved immeasurably that kind of leader—for example, the International in the past 10 years. I therefore support the moderate Criminal Court. In the case of Sergei Magnitsky and tone that the Minister has taken today. We have to have cases like it, however, the situation is more complicated. an environment of respect for the Russian Government Russia is a country with democratic structures and and we have to encourage dialogue with them rather space for opposition and pluralism; nevertheless, the than continually giving them lectures that, I am afraid, state and the judicial system are being used as a mechanism have absolutely no resonance with the Russian people. for oppression. People are acting with impunity and It is true that Russia is changing too slowly, but at least assuming that they can get away with it indefinitely. We President Medvedev has attempted to reform the police need mechanisms that will target not just the leaders service and get rid of the Soviet “people’s militia” but the accomplices, to discourage people from participating system, so some progress is being made. in such activity all the way down the food chain. For The death of Sergei Magnitsky leaves one cold and that, we need a faster and more effective process than those guilty of it are thoroughly contemptible. Of course referrals to the ICC. we condemn what is going on, but I think our Government I agree with the hon. Member for Rhondda: we are taking a measured and sensible approach in seeking should not necessarily be waiting for measures to be to prevent any of those people from coming to this implemented in other countries before we recognise that country and in not seeking to predetermine the outcome it might be right to act in this country. I accept that of trials that are taking place in Russia. My hon. Friend there are constraints on what the Minister can tell us, the Minister’s attitude in seeking to preserve good relations and I absolutely accept his personal commitment to with an essential trading partner is a balanced and right human rights and democracy. He has done extraordinary approach, which I support. work to raise those issues even when it was inconvenient to do so, not just with the Russian Government, but Several hon. Members rose— with many other Governments worldwide. I certainly give him credit, but it is important that we support the Mr Speaker: Order. With three remaining colleagues motion and seize our opportunity. wishing to contribute and a short winding-up speech by the hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) still It is important, too, that we do not send mixed to come, I am afraid that the time limit must be reduced messages, for example in our suggested reforms to the with immediate effect to four minutes. European Court of Human Rights. There is danger in saying that national Governments can pick and choose which cases go forward. If we do that, it might be 6.44 pm possible for Russia to do it too, which in the context of Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): Although it is the Magnitsky case would be very dangerous. I am a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Gainsborough happy to support the motion. I recognise the constraints, (Mr Leigh), I rise from the Liberal Democrat Benches but the time has come to speak out and to act. of the coalition to support the motion unequivocally. I am pleased that there has been such cross-party unity—from 6.48 pm the hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) to the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant). The Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con): I motion was also signed by my right hon. and learned congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Esher and Friend the Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Walton (Mr Raab) on initiating this important debate. I Campbell). That cross-party unity is important, not am happy to support the motion, which I signed along least because the UK bears a special responsibility in with 40 other Members. the case of Sergei Magnitsky. He was working for a Such is the strength of feeling in the House that the British company, Hermitage Capital, and the gentleman debate is a welcome addition to the growing chorus of who has spearheaded the worldwide campaign for justice, concern both in this country and internationally about Bill Browder, is a British citizen. Our country therefore the scandalous case of Sergei Magnitsky. I speak as a 949 Sergei Magnitsky7 MARCH 2012 Sergei Magnitsky 950

[Mr Robert Buckland] involved in the Magnitsky case. Two have been prosecuted. Of the lawyers who have been trying to help the fellow lawyer who worked for many years in a free and investigation, one has been killed and five have been open legal system, where justice was done and seen to exiled. A colonel was put in charge of the investigation be done. It chills me to the bone to think that a fellow when complaints were made. It seems incredible that lawyer who was doing his job had to suffer the most the head of tax office No. 28 in Moscow ends up with appalling indignities and death at the hands of the very millions of dollars abroad when she and her husband authorities he was trying to expose. together were earning about $38,000 a year. The colonel, For those of us who have heard the account of the who officially earns the equivalent of $10,000 a year, life and death of Sergei Magnitsky, the sense of shock has more than £1 million in property in various countries. and outrage never lessens. For those who are hearing I could go on, but the point is better made by the case for the very first time, I would characterise it in reference to the full 75 pages of documentary evidence. this way: an independent lawyer was arrested, imprisoned, There have been 3,500 articles in the Russian media on ill-treated and killed for blowing the whistle on the the case. It is not a question of only the west being massive theft of tax revenue from the Russian state by interested; people in Russia are, too. Within about a its own officials. A simple recitation of those facts month of the tragic death of Sergei Magnitsky, the underlines the seriousness of the case. It is sadly indicative Moscow public oversight commission reported on of the state of kleptocracy, plain and simple, into which 28 December 2009 what it thought had happened, but the Russian state seems to be descending. two years later, the Moscow authorities have not reacted. The Conservative party human rights commission, A Russian investigative committee has extended its which I have the honour to chair, heard evidence from term nine times and has still not reported. Bill Browder and others about the Magnitsky case as My view is that Russia has a chance to recognise what part of our ongoing inquiry into the role of professional it got wrong. Stealing $230 million was one crime, but people in countries around the world with poor human arresting, maltreating and then murdering Sergei Magnitsky rights records. As my hon. Friend the Member for was a second, and then there was the cover-up. I pay Esher and Walton said, this debate is not just about tribute to the Russians for allowing many other Russians Russia—it is about freedom itself. The motion is not to find out much of what has happened, and the anti-Russia. Those of us who love Russia and its people, documentary trail is listed in the russian-untouchables who have visited the country on several occasions both list. Then there is the official position of the Russian before the end of communism and after, want to see it Government. I believe that the former President understood thrive and march down the road to freedom. At present, that things had gone dramatically wrong, and the current though, Russia is sadly far away from that road. That is President might understand that as well. I call on both why the approaches taken in other countries and other to say what they will now do to give justice in Russia to legislatures, most notably the United States Senate, are a Russian, and give hope to those who work with them. commendable. They point a clear way to concerted Russia will either get worse or get better, and I hope that international action to deal with the perpetrators of this debate will be part of helping it get better. such crimes in a way that affects them most significantly: by limiting their freedom to visit countries such as 6.55 pm Britain and by freezing the assets that we know they own internationally. That is not interference in the Mr Raab: I rise for a second time to wind up this domestic affairs of another country, but international timely debate, in which we have heard 12 powerful action designed to express our disapproval, our disgust, speeches from right hon. and hon. Members both sides at the role of officials in concerted and organised state of the House. The shadow Europe Minister, the hon. corruption. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma It is time for Russia to have its chance to reach Reynolds), raised the wider human rights situation in freedom. All we are saying today to the Russian state Russia. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and to those responsible for these crimes is that they spoke of the state abuse of the Russian justice system. should turn away from oppression and corruption, My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for acknowledge the sins of the past, deal with them properly Kensington (Sir Malcolm Rifkind) talked powerfully and join the free world in the fullest sense. about the deep link between the Russian Government at the highest levels and organised crime. The right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) called for 6.52 pm sharper diplomatic tools to address the situation and Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): Sergei create some accountability. My hon. Friend the Member Magnitsky was born on 8 April 1972 and died on for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries) talked about 16 November 2009, so he would have been younger the damage corruption is doing to Russia itself. We than two of my children. heard other powerful and eloquent speeches, for example On 4 June 2007, Colonel Kuznetsov went with other from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), people to take documents from Hermitage’s offices. On my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh), 24 December there was an application for a refund of who talked about his recent experience of monitoring capital taxes, which was approved in 24 hours. That was elections, the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin the stealing of the $230 million. The best description of Horwood), and my hon. Friends the Members for South what happened is on the website http://russian- Swindon (Mr Buckland) and for Worthing West (Sir Peter untouchables.com/eng/. The Wikipedia article on Sergei Bottomley). Magnitsky is also pretty good. We have talked a little I thank the Minister for his welcome update on the about the Cardin list, on which Benjamin Cardin, a Sergei Magnitsky case and what the British Government senator for Maryland, lists 60 people who have been are doing about it. I am delighted that they share the 951 Sergei Magnitsky 7 MARCH 2012 952 instincts that underpin the motion and are shared by so Employment Support many of its sponsors. I understand that it might be tempting to wait and see what happens with the US Bill 6.59 pm as it goes through the Senate, but I hope that the debate might spur the Government to take a lead. I hope that The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work the Minister will heed the will of the House and consider and Pensions (Maria Miller): With permission, Mr Speaker, the legislative proposals that have been talked about in I should like to make a statement on the reform of the context of the forthcoming Queen’s Speech, so that specialist disability employment support. we can take a stand against the henchmen of tyrants Today, the Government have published a Command and despots and deny them the privilege of setting foot Paper, setting out our plans for specialist disability on British soil or buying up British property, as we employment support and summarising our responses to would a terrorist or gangster. I commend the motion to the Sayce review. Let me make one thing clear: these are the House. difficult decisions, but the current system is not working Question put and agreed to. for disabled people. Employment rates for disabled people Resolved, remain almost 30% below those of non-disabled people. Exclusion from the labour market leads to exclusion That this House notes the passage of the Sergei Magnitsky from society at large, and I do not think that anybody in Rule of Law Accountability Bill through the United States Senate, the Bill to condemn corruption and impunity in Russia in the case the House wants to see that happen. and death of Sergei Magnitsky in the House of Commons in That is why, back in 2010, we asked Liz Sayce to Canada, the approval of the resolution of the Dutch Parliament conduct a review of how we might make specialist concerning Sergei Magnitsky dated 29 June 2011, and paragraphs I employment support for disabled people work better. and 20 to 21 of the resolution of the European Parliament of The review was detailed and comprehensive, and it took 14 December 2011 on the EU-Russia Summit; and calls on the views from disabled people, disabled people’s organisations Government to bring forward equivalent legislative proposals providing for a presumption in favour of asset freezes and travel and many hon. Members in the House today. Today, the bans for officials of the Russian state and other countries, wherever Government have published their response to that report, the appropriate UK authorities have collected or received evidence outlining how we intend to reform specialist disability that establishes that such officials: support for the future. It includes putting £15 million (a) were involved in the detention, physical abuse or death of more into Access to Work, a scheme that has been Sergei Magnitsky; proven to be extremely successful in supporting disabled (b) participated in efforts to conceal the legal liability for the people into mainstream employment. detention, abuse or death of Sergei Magnitsky; I have agreed that the funding for residential training (c) committed the frauds discovered by Sergei Magnitsky; or colleges should be extended until the end of the academic (d) are responsible for extrajudicial killings, torture or other year 2012-13, something that I know many hon. Members gross violations of human rights committed in Russia or any present will support as well. That will allow those other country against any individual seeking to obtain, exercise, colleges time to determine and to implement future defend or promote basic and internationally recognised human change. They provide support into employment which rights, including those set out in the International Covenant on is clearly valued, although costly, and we need to take Civil and Political Rights 1966. further time to consider the options for the future. Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): On a We have also taken a difficult but important decision point of order, Mr Speaker. During the debate you on the future of Remploy.The responses to the consultation kindly answered a question about a communication on the Sayce review strongly endorsed the idea that from the Russian ambassador. If you feel that it would money to support disabled people into employment be suitable to invite the ambassador to a reception, should follow individuals, not institutions, and that many of us would like to come and listen to what he has Remploy factories should be set free from Government to say about the matter we have just discussed. control. The responses also supported the view that Government-funded, segregated employment is not Mr Speaker: It is very good of the hon. Gentleman, consistent with the objective of disability equality, which and very helpful, to seek to arrange my extra-Chamber is at the heart of what this Government stand for. calendar in the way he proposes, but I will reflect and We know that roughly 2,200 disabled people are digest— supported by Remploy’s enterprise businesses, at a cost each year of about one fifth of the total budget for The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain specialist disability employment programmes. Despite Duncan Smith): Speak for foreign policy, Mr Speaker. significant investment in those businesses, the cost of each employment place remains some £25,000 per year, Mr Speaker: If the Secretary of State for Work and compared with an average Access to Work award of just Pensions put that proposition to the House, I think that under £3,000. it would be divisible and there would be a Division. I The current system is not using the money that we note what the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter have available most effectively, and in these difficult Bottomley) has said. As he knows, there is no secret economic times we have to look at that very carefully. about the communication from the ambassador to me The current situation is not sustainable, and it is simply or my reply. not working for the majority of the 7 million disabled On account of the notable succinctness of the hon. people who live in all our constituencies throughout the Member for Esher and Walton (Mr Raab) in winding country. up the debate, we are in a position to come to the If money is spent more effectively, up to 8,000 more statement at 6.59 pm, rather than the advertised time of unemployed disabled people could be supported into 7 o’clock. mainstream employment, something I am sure the House 953 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 954

[Maria Miller] needs and aspirations of disabled people in the 21st century, and a more equal world where disabled people participate will agree is the right approach. That is why I have fully in the mainstream, not in Government-funded decided to accept and implement the Sayce review segregated jobs. recommendations on Remploy. That will be done in two stages. In stage 1, the Government will reduce their Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): I thank the Minister current subsidy to Remploy from the beginning of the for her statement, but frankly it was a statement that new financial year, so that we cease funding factories she obviously did not want to give to this House in that make significant losses year after year and restrict person. Let me give this advice to the Minister and to funding to those factories that might have a prospect of Government Members: even if the situation is difficult, it a viable future without a Government subsidy. behoves a Minister to come to this House to explain it. Remploy’s board was asked to consider the impact of [Interruption.] the decision before it was made, and as a result of the decision to reduce current funding the board is proposing— Mr Speaker: Order. These exchanges have already subject to important consultation with staff and unions—to been too noisy. The House must calm down. We cannot close by the end of this year the 36 factory sites that it have a situation in which people trade insults across the considers unlikely to be able to achieve independent Chamber, shouting out “Where is this one or that one?” financial viability. Let us just cool the temperature and have a decent Remploy will shortly begin collective consultation exchange. The House knows that I will want to facilitate with its trade unions and the management forums on such an exchange. the proposed closure of those factories, and on the potential compulsory redundancy of 1,518 disabled Mrs McGuire: It is fair to say that Remploy is not an people at those sites and those associated with them. ordinary organisation; it is one that has been part of In stage 2, the Department for Work and Pensions Government’s provision for disabled people since the will work with the Remploy board to identify whether second world war. We all recognise, in all parts of the these potentially viable Remploy businesses can be freed House, that it has had to adapt to changing conditions from Government control, including by employee-led over the years, but there is no point in the Minister commercial exit or open-market sales, and how this trying to hide behind the statement by my right hon. might be achieved. Friend the Member for Neath (Mr Hain). My right I recognise that this announcement will be difficult hon. Friend came to this House and answered questions news for the staff in Remploy factories and understand in this House, and he made some of the difficult decisions that they have will have concerns about the future. As that we hoped would set Remploy on the road to part of collective consultation, the Remploy board will success. Recently, however, there has been only one consider all proposals to avoid compulsory redundancy. debate in this House on the future of Remploy, and that Moreover, we are absolutely committed to supporting was held, thanks to the courtesy of the Backbench Remploy employees with an £8 million comprehensive Business Committee, in Westminster Hall on 15 December. personalised package of support for all those who are Today, the Government have tried to abrogate their affected by these proposals. Any disabled member of responsibility as the custodian of the Remploy legacy staff who is made redundant will receive an individual and as the ultimate employer of the 1,752 people who offer of up to 18 months’ help with the transition from today found out by written statement, or in some cases Government-funded sheltered employment to mainstream from telephone calls from Members of Parliament, that employment. This support will include access to a personal they will no longer be in a job in three months’ time. budget—on average, £2,500—to aid that transition. We Nobody in this House disagrees with the Minister will also be working with employers and the Employers’ when she says that disabled people want to have a Forum on Disability to look to offer targeted work choice about where they work. Nobody argues that opportunities for all displaced staff. We will establish a such opportunities have not opened up over the past community support fund to provide grants to local few years for many disabled people. However, many of disability organisations to support Remploy employees the opportunities have been offered by organisations in making the transition from sheltered employment to such as Remploy that give disabled people a real job in mainstream employment. the jobs market. It was clear even from the Sayce review This decision commands the support of disabled that the best factories offer job satisfaction, a supportive people’s organisations and disabled people themselves. and accessible environment, and a reasonable income It is also a decision that I would have thought the for their employees. Opposition wanted to support, because back in 2007 I will not run away from the fact that my Government, the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain) said of and I as a Minister, had to wrestle with the issues Remploy: relating to Remploy. We cannot rewrite history. However, “the reality is that it is simply not viable.”—[Official Report, our position on disabled people in 2007 was astonishingly 29 November 2007; Vol. 468, c. 449.] different from what the Minister has put before us today. If she truly believes in co-production, why was We, as a Government, have taken forward his plan and there no co-production with the trade unions, the disabled have come to a natural point that he, too, would have people who work in Remploy and the Remploy board come to in this process. over the past few months? I have the greatest admiration The Government’s commitment is to support many for Liz Sayce and for some of the work that she has more thousands of disabled people into work, and the done, but to put forward a closure programme that will changes that I am announcing today will enable us to potentially put 1,700 on the dole on the basis of a do exactly that. I believe that this strategy better fits the report by an individual is not acceptable. 955 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 956

We must recognise the legitimacy of the position of The Minister says that the support that she will give the mainstream of the disability movement, which is to disabled people who are made redundant will last for that it does not like supported factories or Remploy. up to 18 months and potentially be a personalised However, that does not mean that it is wrong to support budget of £2,500. How is that £2,500 expected to meet people in these factories. Perhaps the mainstream needs the needs of many of the people in Remploy? to recognise that Remploy offers a real job in a supported Where will the jobs come from? At the factory in environment. Ashington, 35 people are chasing each job, and in I will put some questions to the Minister before you Acton— call me to order, Mr Speaker. In opposition, the Conservative party supported the five-year modernisation Mr Speaker: Order. I say to the shadow Minister that plan, so why did the Minister embark on a review nearly I know these are extremely important matters, but I feel two years before that timetable had been exhausted? sure that she is bringing her questions to a close. In fact, Why are the Government pulling the funding from the I am certain that she is in her last sentence. next financial year, which leaves a period of only a few Mrs McGuire: I am indeed, Mr Speaker. days? Was warning given to the Remploy board before the last couple of weeks that it would have to manage I finish by saying to the Minister that in each constituency this speed of change and a massive redundancy programme where there are factories at which redundancies will be over the next few weeks? made, there are tens of people chasing every job. She made a point about the increase in Access to Work, but When the modernisation statement was made to the that scheme requires jobs. Tonight, 1,700 people do not House in 2007, the now Minister of State, Department know whether they will have one in three months’ time. for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling)—[Interruption.] Please Maria Miller: I am very happy to have come to the do not laugh if I pronounce “Ewell” wrong. I do not House today to discuss our proposals. [Interruption.] know how it is pronounced. He said at that time: Communication is very important on this matter, and “Let me assure Remploy and its employees that the next many Members have had many conversations with me Conservative Government will continue the process of identifying about Remploy over the past two years. I have already additional potential procurement opportunities for them and the laid a written statement and met many of the MPs public sector work force.”—[Official Report, 29 November 2007; Vol. 468, c. 451.] affected. Indeed, I have spoken to the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), and my right hon. Friend What has the Minister done, now that the Conservative the Secretary of State has spoken to the shadow Secretary party is in office, to ensure that her ministerial colleagues of State, the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge fulfil that promise? What discussions has she had with Hill (Mr Byrne), who is not in his place. the major procurement Departments, including the Home Office and the Ministry of Defence? Did she We take staff communications very seriously indeed looked at the procurement opportunities that her on a matter such as this. It is not right for the right hon. Department could have offered to Remploy? What Member for Stirling to call into question the way in discussions has she had with her colleagues in the which it has been managed, because my colleagues at Department for Communities and Local Government Remploy have put great effort into ensuring that disabled to encourage local authorities to consider opening up people employed by Remploy are well aware of today’s opportunities for their local factories? What efforts has process. Indeed, we have worked closely together throughout she made to encourage her colleagues to identify the consultation process. As I have said, there were procurement opportunities under article 19? 1,400 submissions, including from disabled people, Opposition Members and staff at Remploy factories. Given the Minister’s intention to embark on this Most important of all, this Government decided course of action, how did she involve the board of when we came to office to take forward the modernisation Remploy and the trade unions in the discussions about plan that Labour Members had put in place. In these the issues identified in the Sayce report? I am not very difficult economic times, we could have taken a talking about their responses to the consultation, but different decision, but we chose not to. We chose to about what real co-production she was involved in. stick with that plan and see how things progressed. I am What recognition did she give to the trade union analysis afraid that in year four of the modernisation plan, it is of the current operation of Remploy’s enterprises and clear that the objectives that Labour set out were simply the questions that it raised about the company’s business not going to come to fruition and were not realistic. I practices? think some Opposition Members will know that. There is a feeling around the House that the consultation The right hon. Lady asked a number of questions, was flawed from the beginning because the Minister some of which I believe I may have answered in my said that she was statement, but I want to ensure that I have covered “minded to accept the recommendations of the Sayce review”. every point she made. The Remploy board has been A Government cannot start a consultation if they fully informed of all the procedures that we have gone have already said they are minded to accept the through and all the decisions that have been made, and recommendations. my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has spoken By how much will the Minister reduce the subsidy to to his Opposition counterpart to ensure that he was well Remploy in the next financial year and the one after? informed in advance of today. We ensured that the She highlighted the fact that there may be options for procurement commitments that Labour put in place the so-called stage 2 factories. What will those options were taken forward. In fact, we have been working with be, and what criteria will she lay down for the transfer Remploy for the past two years to attempt to make the of any business and its associated assets to the open modernisation plan work, but we are where we are and market? these difficult decisions now needed to be taken. 957 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 958

[Maria Miller] Maria Miller: The hon. Lady makes an important point. It is important that factories have work to do. All There has been a great deal of discussion by Opposition too often in the past, factories have not had enough to Members about the number of jobs that are available to do. Indeed, in the very recent past, half of Remploy disabled people. I should like to put it on record that the employees in factories have had nothing to do. I do not employment services arm of Remploy has done a find that acceptable, but if there are opportunities to magnificent job of helping disabled people into work. I avoid redundancies, we will work with hon. Members of believe that many hon. Members will agree with that. all parties to do that. Indeed, last year, Remploy’s employment services arm supported 20,000 disabled people throughout the country Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): I thank the Under- into work, with 2,000 individuals with disabilities in Secretary for her statement and the Opposition Wales and another 2,000 in Scotland helped into work. spokesperson for her response. The decision is difficult Those jobs are available if individuals can get the support but I believe that it is right. The Under-Secretary knows and training to access them. my views—I have worked in this area for many years. I The decisions are not easy, but we are continuing a would like to get a couple of commitments in the policy that the previous Administration started. When House. Will every penny saved remain in the area to we came into government, we confirmed that we would help many more thousands of disabled people into continue that plan. The truth is that the Opposition work? I do not want it to be a cost-cutting exercise. would have had to make those decisions themselves. Secondly, if the Under-Secretary cannot do so this We enlisted the help of experts to try to ensure that evening, will she bring to the House later some detail our decisions were right. Liz Sayce, in her role in Radar, about the exact programme over the 18 months to brings to the matter an expertise that many hon. Members ensure that people from Remploy move into employment? will acknowledge. Today, we are taking forward her recommendations, and I am afraid that I cannot understand Maria Miller: I can reassure my hon. Friend that the tone or the nature of the right hon. Lady’s remarks. every penny that is saved in the programme will be Labour Members should remember that many factories reinvested in supporting disabled people. Indeed, we were closed on their watch, and perhaps they did not will spend £15 million more as a result of the real, clear make the right decisions then. They would have had to need to ensure that we have sufficient support in place. I face the same choices. Today’s discussion is not about can also reassure him that we already have the detailed money because, as Opposition Members know, the programme of support for Remploy employees who are money and support for specialist disability employment affected by today’s announcements. Several Opposition is protected under the Government—£320 million plus Members attended a meeting that I held earlier to an extra £15 million to ensure that the changes that we ensure that people have the information to hand. I will are making today will result in more disabled people in continue to hold meetings with hon. Members to ensure work, with more money to support them to do that. that everybody is aware of the support that is in place.

Several hon. Members rose— Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): Seventeen hundred people will lose their jobs as a result of this statement, including 1,500 disabled people. The Mr Speaker: Order. There is much interest and I am Minister’s case rests on the argument that there are keen to accommodate it, but brevity is of the essence. better ways to help disabled people into work than through Remploy. Will she therefore guarantee to come Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con): I welcome to the House six months after the closures have taken the extra £15 million that the Under-Secretary has place and detail exactly how many of the 1,500 disabled announced today for helping disabled people. Does she people who will lose their jobs have gained alternative agree that we are likely to secure better value for money employment? for that extra funding, and we will be able to help more disabled people, if it goes to individuals rather than Maria Miller: The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely institutions? right. We need to ensure that we know what happens to individuals who are affected by the measures announced Maria Miller: My hon. Friend is right. In this day today. Unfortunately, under the previous Administration, and age, we need to recognise that disabled people want no such tracking was put in place. That was a mistake, to live independent lives. We are committed to that as a and one that this Government will not be repeating. I Government. To do that, we need to help more disabled hope that he is not advocating our retaining segregated people into work and we are more likely to achieve that employment, but I can absolutely undertake to him that if we can ensure that that money is used most effectively. we will monitor and keep track of these measures, The proposals that we are discussing will help an extra because we want to ensure that as many people as 8,000 disabled people into work. possible can enter employment.

Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): As the Under-Secretary Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con): I equally knows, my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea West support the view that money should follow people and (Geraint Davies) has been very successful in getting not institutions. As a past employer of excellent disabled public bodies locally to buy furniture from the Swansea people, I found that the support to help them to find us Remploy factory. Now that that factory’s order books was variable to say the least. What can the Government are full, will she look again at its potential to be cost do to improve that support to establish and build on effective and drop her plans to close it? those connections? 959 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 960

Maria Miller: My hon. Friend is absolutely right that of disabled workers in areas of high unemployment. employers have a vital role to play. All hon. Members Some of them, in areas such as mine, previously made will know that there is a great deal more work to do to redundant by Remploy, still have not got jobs. It is time help employers to understand the very valuable contribution that this Government and their accomplices, these tinpot that disabled people bring to the workplace. I am working Liberals, understood that this is the most heartless hard with many disabled people and disabled people’s thing that they have done since they came to power. It is organisations. Through our new disability strategy, we time they went. will ensure that we continue to work with employers to ensure that they see the advantages of employing disabled Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): You’re a people, and through our additional support for Access disgrace to this House. to Work there will be tangible financial support.

Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): So the Minister’s big Hon. Members: Order, order. idea for getting people who are disabled back into work is to start by giving them the sack. There are three Mr Speaker: Order. Members can have their opinions. factors in Wales being hit hard: seven of the nine Let us cool it and hear the Minister’s answer. I say that Remploy factories in Wales will close; 272 of the to no particular individual but to the whole House. Let 752 employees are in Wales; and jobs are being lost in us hear the Minister. communities that already face mass worklessness, such as Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare and Abertillery. What Maria Miller: I suppose that I should remind the consideration did the Minister give to human costs hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) that he supported before making her announcement, or was her only a Government who closed 28 factories. What is inexcusable thought the cold logic of the balance sheet? is that his Government did absolutely nothing on tracking to establish how to put in place the right support for Maria Miller: The hon. Gentleman cannot have been individuals affected by their decisions. The simple truth listening to me earlier, because we are talking about is that as a result of the Labour party’s approach, the supporting more disabled people into employment. As factories have lost £225 million since 2008. That is a result of the announcements we have made today, money that we should have been using to support more 8,000 more disabled people can seek the support that disabled people into work, and that is at the heart of will make the difference between them being able to get our proposals today. into work and facing a lifetime on benefits. Disabled people in this country should not face a choice between a lifetime on benefits and a job in a segregated factory. Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): I commend Waitrose They deserve to be able to work for employers such as in my constituency for its structured programme of BT, Royal Mail, Sainsbury and Marks & Spencer, all of employment opportunities for people with disabilities. I which are actively working with Remploy employment also commend my hon. Friend for taking this difficult services to get people—not only in Wales, but throughout decision to make the money go further. Will she say a the country—into employment. little about the responses from the disability organisations about how to help more disabled people into mainstream employment? Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): We would all like to see more disabled in mainstream employment, but does the Minister accept that some people who work in Remploy Maria Miller: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. factories will not be able to hold down a job in mainstream She is absolutely right: we have to make the money go employment for the longer term? Given that so many further and, in these difficult economic times, ensure people without a disability who are more than capable that the money is being used most effectively. Our of working shy away from doing so, should we not do consultation on the future of disability employment everything we can to support people who could sit at support received widespread—indeed, almost universal— home on disability but who want to go out to work for support from disability organisations. Mind told us: their own dignity? No fair-minded person questions my “We agree that Remploy should be radically reformed, with hon. Friend’s commitment to improve the lot of people high quality support for everyone affected”. with disabilities, but will she ensure that none of those Disability Rights UK said: people from Remploy factories who wants to earn an honest day’s pay will be left behind by her changes? “We appreciate that the Sayce review has caused some concern… However, we believe segregated employment for disabled people is unacceptable.” Maria Miller: My hon. Friend and I have spoken about this before. I do not think that we should sell The simple truth is that the Labour party is out of step disabled people short. Many disabled people working in with the majority of the disability world. I urge it to Remploy employment factories have excellent skills. I consider more closely its response to the statement. want to ensure that they have the support and opportunity to have the sorts of jobs that I know most disabled Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): I hope that the people want in their lives. Independent living, not Minister, as she faces me, feels a little embarrassed for segregation or inequality, is at the heart of the Government’s completely misleading me earlier this week. I, in turn, approach. misled people in my factory, and I hope that she apologises for that. I am afraid, once again, that this is the nasty Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Does this statement party at work. It has never changed. It has not changed not sum up this heartless Government inhabiting in the 28 years that I have been in the House. It is an millionaires’road? They are sacking hundreds and hundreds absolute disgrace. 961 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 962

Mr Speaker: Order. Before the Minister replies, I seek at a cost of £900,000 last year, against an estimated confirmation from the right hon. Lady that she was not total of 7,400 disabled people in the Rhondda who are suggesting the Minister misled her here in the Chamber. of working age. Does he not want to do more to support—[Interruption.] My apologies, Mr Speaker: in Ann Clwyd indicated assent. Wrexham—the Rhondda is in the south; Wrexham is in the north. Mr Speaker: No. We are grateful for that confirmation. The Minister will have heard the question, and she can Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South) (LD): I have answer. to say that once again I find myself in disagreement with my coalition colleagues on this matter. Can the Maria Miller: And I can say to you, Mr Speaker, that Minister give an assurance that those companies that I would never want to mislead the right hon. Lady at all, are not—[Interruption.] I have to apologise, Mr Speaker: here or in any other place. I would gently bring to her that was a call from the Remploy factory. Can the attention the fact that there are 37 disabled people Minister give an assurance that there will be sufficient employed in the Aberdare factory. The loss at that help to enable—[Interruption.] factory last year was £800,000, and that is against an estimated 13,600 disabled people in Cynon Valley who Mr Speaker: Order. I think we should hear the voice are of working age. Does she not believe that we should of Portsmouth. be doing more to support those individuals? The proposals in today’s statement will do just that. Mr Hancock: May I seek an assurance from the Minister that those factories that are happily not up for Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con): May I thank closure at present will be given all sorts of assistance? I the Minister for her conversations with me in recent would also like her to give an indication, if she can this months, as she has come to this difficult but, I believe, evening, of what help will be given to those Remploy correct decision today? Many people at the Alder Hills operations to stay in business. Does she also accept that site in my constituency and their families will be worried some people employed by Remploy—many in my tonight, but that worry will not be allayed by the constituency have been there for 10 or 15 years—will invective in the two contributions that we have just find it difficult to find other employment? heard from the Opposition. Will the Minister say what more we might do to seek the advice of disabled people, Maria Miller: I am very happy to give my hon. Friend so that as they try to access mainstream employment, an undertaking that we will want to work together with we can learn from their bad experiences in the past of individuals in factories that are in wave 2 of the process, trying to do that? because we want to find ways for those organisations to succeed. However, he should be aware that we are Maria Miller: I thank my hon. Friend for that comment, indeed able to support disabled people into employment, and I think he is right that many vulnerable groups and through the employment services programme, so although individuals who are listening to this debate will be he rightly says that it can be difficult for people to make taking close note of who is trying to offer the support that transition, it is not impossible. With the right that is needed, and we on the Government Benches support, people can move from segregated factories want that to be constructive support. He will be aware into mainstream employment. that we are putting in place a budget of some £8 million, half of which will be used directly for personal support John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): The budgets for individuals, both in his constituency and Minister referred to the £2,500 of transitional funding elsewhere—some £2,500 a head. I want that to give for the workers, and I note that that is an average figure. every individual who is affected the proper support, so If it is to make up the difference between benefits and that we do not have a repeat, perhaps, of some of the the wages that the workers would have earned, it will problems of the past to which Opposition Members last about six months. If they are still unemployed after have referred. that time, will there be further transitional assistance? If not, some of those families will plummet into poverty. Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab): The Minister has repeatedly refused to give information to Members of Parliament Maria Miller: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman about the viability of individual factories. She is now knows that the money I am talking about will be on top giving them at the Dispatch Box—she gave them to my of the quite significant provision that we make for right hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Ann redundancy in the process. Clwyd). That is a very deficient approach. Today, Liz Sayce said: Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): Local authorities “I think it is really important that those factories should be in the former Humberside region struggled with a similar given a chance to show if they can be viable”. problem to that of Remploy involving B-line. In 2007, Will the Minister now—finally, on the day that she has the then Labour council in North Lincolnshire decided announced its closure—give to me the figures about the to close B-line down. Since then, there have been far too viability of the Wrexham factory? many people with disabilities presenting to MPs and councils in the area and requiring support. What can Maria Miller: The hon. Gentleman will be able to my hon. Friend say to those people who will be affected have sight of the report that we have put together, which by today’s decision? Specifically, will she assure me and looked at the whole network to see which factories we the House that social enterprises will be engaged to help could put into a financially sustainable position. Again, the individuals affected, and that there will be a guarantee however, I would gently remind him that the Wrexham that every worker affected will get the maximum support, factory in his constituency supports 41 disabled individuals, rather than just the average sum? 963 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 964

Maria Miller: I can absolutely assure my hon. Friend that management and the work force have been working the individuals who are affected by these announcements together to try to develop a social enterprise that would will receive unprecedented levels of support from the include not only the Remploy workers but other voluntary £8 million package. We want to ensure that each individual organisations around the city. They have gone a long is given the kind of personalised package of support way down the road to achieving that, but there is now that they have not received in the past, to enable them to huge uncertainty. My reading of the literature that has make the transition from segregated employment to been produced today is that the factories are to be mainstream employment. We want to do as much as we closed, which means that— can to improve the opportunities for more disabled people to live independent lives. Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. I will say it loudly this time: we want short questions, please, not speeches. Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ Mr Doran, a question—now! Co-op): If the Minister has read the responses to the consultation, she will be aware that, following the last round of voluntary redundancies, a large number of Mr Doran: I would love to make a speech, but I am people were still not in work 18 months later. Why does trying to avoid one. The future of the factory is crucial. she think it is going to be different this time, when she is There is a possibility of saving jobs in Aberdeen, so will proposing compulsory redundancies at a time that she the Minister confirm what will happen to the factories? has acknowledged to be one of economic difficulty? Maria Miller: We are going into a 90-day consultation Maria Miller: The hon. Gentleman might not have on phase 1 factories. If individuals want to come forward heard me say earlier that, in the last major round of because they feel that there are opportunities to reduce redundancies, which took place under the Labour the level of redundancies, Remploy would obviously be Government in 2008, no process was put in place to pleased to look at them. track the progress of individuals who were offered support. Indeed, we found that some 40% of the individuals Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): What conversations involved took retirement or early retirement. I want to is my hon. Friend having with employers about increasing ensure that people have the right support, and that they employment opportunities for disabled people? can see that there is an opportunity to move forward. Now, more than ever, it is important that we get this Maria Miller: I am happy to reassure my hon. Friend right. The last Government ducked these decisions; that we have had extensive conversations with the Employers they did not take the difficult decisions and they did Forum on Disabilities, which is going to work closely nothing to ensure that disabled people could get the job with us on the employment support package that we are opportunities that they needed. putting together for the individuals affected, particularly making sure that, through its first shot scheme, disabled Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con): The Minister people can get those interviews and get in front of rightly recognises the success of residential training employers, which can be so important in securing jobs. colleges such as the Royal National Institute of Blind People college in my constituency. Will she reassure me and other Members who have such colleges in their Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): Nobody would constituencies that departmental officials will make deny that mainstream employment is important for themselves fully available to the colleges as they explore people with disabilities, but some people who are employed alternative ways of working and being funded? in Remploy factories are there because they cannot secure mainstream employment. Will the Minister give Maria Miller: My hon. Friend and I have had many the House a commitment today that at the end of the conversations about the importance of the college in 18-month period, she will produce a report showing the her constituency. The simple fact is that residential individual destinations of people in employment and, if training colleges up and down the country provide she proceeds with this closure programme, what percentage important specialist support for disabled people to get of them have jobs? into employment. I have already given a clear undertaking that we are going to provide funding for those residential Maria Miller: Again, the right hon. Gentleman will training colleges through to the end of the 2012-13 have heard me say that unlike the previous Government, academic year. Indeed, my officials are already meeting we will track the destinations of the people affected the heads of those colleges to ensure that we have a today. I do not doubt his very real and important clear plan for retaining that expertise in the new funding concern, but disabled people really have the capability environment. of working in mainstream employment, and I think it is our responsibility to make sure that we give them the Several hon. Members rose— skills and support to be able to do that.

Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Given that many of There are still a lot of Members wanting to get in. We these employees will enjoy a lot of camaraderie and therefore want short questions and short answers. community, as well as jobs, will my hon. Friend confirm that the mentoring and support offered will be beyond Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab): No one what is currently offered to them? Will she also confirm will be surprised to hear that the workers in my local that local charities and local organisations will work factory were devastated by today’s news. They feel closely with these employees so that they can be involved particularly angry because for the past two years, the in the community? 965 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 966

Maria Miller: My hon. Friend is absolutely right that that we will monitor the progress made by disabled the community aspect of Remploy is important. It is people, and I am always happy to come to the House something that all who are involved with Remploy and talk about the progress that the Government are understand. That is why I have allocated £1.5 million to making. a community budget to make sure that the broader benefits of Remploy are taken into account so that that Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): When support is there not just for employees, but for their the Ystradgynlais Remploy factory in my constituency families and the broader community, too. was closed under the last Labour Government, a number of my constituents transferred to Baglan, which I think Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab): Is it today’s written statement refers to as Neath. It is included not shameful that the workers in the Remploy factory in in the stage 2 list as being potentially viable. Will the Wishaw did not even know that they were losing their Minister ensure that the Remploy board is given all the jobs until I phoned the factory this afternoon? In encouragement and resources that are needed to ensure Motherwell and Wishaw, there are 21 people going for that that viability continues? every single job application, so what will happen to those Remploy people who do not get a job in the next Maria Miller: We certainly want to help the Neath 18 months? factory to realise what is clearly its potential. I hope that we can work with my hon. Friend as well, and that Maria Miller: Communication is vital. The hon. his support will ensure that the factory is the success Gentleman has to understand that this is part of a that he feels that it can be in the future. 12-month process. We have been in consultation, and 1,400 people contributed to it. It is well known that we Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab): Will the have been in this process. Today, Remploy management Minister tell us what criteria will be used to determine took a great deal of time to make sure that that whether factories on the stage 2 list, such as the one in communication process continued. I challenge him to my constituency, will remain open, and against what look at some of the facts and figures for his own time scale they will be judged? Will she come back to region—to look, for example, at the number of disabled the House at the end of that time and tell us how many people who are getting into employment. That is something of them will remain open? that we believe should be available for Remploy employees Maria Miller: The stage 2 factories are factories that as well. we believe, on the basis of independent reports, have the opportunity and potential to be financially viable. What Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): Everyone we need now is an opportunity to talk to people who in the House will empathise with the people who are at may be interested in taking them over. We are committed risk of losing their jobs tonight; there is no question to what is in recommended in Liz Sayce’s report, which about that. Will my hon. Friend confirm that the support is the freeing of these factories from Government control, these people will receive will help a greater number of and we need to ensure that we have the right support people to get into jobs and that the money will be used and plans to be able to do that. effectively? Does she share my surprise that the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne), Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con): Does who just five hours ago expressed his concern that the my hon. Friend agree that as a result of this tough and Minister should be here tonight, is not here tonight? difficult decision it will be possible to help thousands more disabled people who do not currently live near a Maria Miller: Obviously, it is important for Members Remploy factory, such as those in my constituency? to take part in this debate. I can reassure my hon. Friend that as a result of the proposals that we have Maria Miller: My hon. Friend speaks for the 7 million announced today, some 8,000 more disabled people will disabled people of working age in this country who do be helped into employment. This is not just about the not have the opportunity to work at Remploy. We must £320 million that the Government have already announced use the £320 million of protected money, and the extra that they have protected to support this important £15 million that is going into Access to Work, to ensure group of people; it is about an extra £15 million on top that many more of those individuals who are unable to of that, and I think that our actions speak very loudly. be employed at the moment have the opportunity to be employed, and to lead independent lives as a result. Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): I think that the 54 disabled people who are losing the jobs at Remploy Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): I am in Chesterfield will see through the Minister’s warm particularly disappointed by the timing of today’s words and rhetoric. The fact is that more disabled announcement. It stretches credulity that at a time of people than able-bodied people are unemployed generally: rising unemployment and fierce competition for every it is a desperately difficult jobs market out there anyway. single job, the Government are planning to take supported The Minister has already dodged this question twice. jobs away from people who are already very disadvantaged Will she commit herself to coming back to the House in in the labour market. What net financial savings does six months and telling us where those who have lost the Minister expect to arise from this policy? Once the their jobs at Remploy have gone, so that we can establish redundancy bill, the benefits bill and the personalised whether her warm words mean anything to the 54 support have been delivered, will creating all this uncertainty people in my constituency who are losing their jobs? actually save any money? Maria Miller: I do not doubt the hon. Gentleman’s Maria Miller: This is not a savings measure. I know genuine concern for his constituents, but I do not think that the hon. Lady is very concerned about this matter that I have dodged that question. I have made it clear on behalf of those of her constituents who work in 967 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 968

Remploy factories, but I assure her that we are trying to Maria Miller: Iamveryhappytobeabletogivethat ensure that the money is used more effectively, so more assurance to my hon. Friend. I apologise if Members of her constituents can get the support they need. It did not catch the answer to which he refers: under the simply cannot be right for us to continue to let the previous Administration, 68 factories closed— factories lose £68 million a year—and cumulatively [Interruption.] I apologise; 28 factories closed under more than £200 million over the modernisation plan the previous Administration. [Interruption.] period—when we could be using that money more effectively to support more disabled people into Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. If employment. the House were a little quieter, we would all be able to hear exactly what is being said. May I also ask the Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): I thank the Minister Minister to give briefer answers and, once again, ask for that answer, but I am concerned about the way this Members to ask a single, brief question? difficult decision will be reported. Will she make it clear that the decision has not been taken in order to cut Maria Miller: Twenty-eight factories were closed under public expenditure, and that instead more money will the previous Administration, and some 1,600 people be going towards enabling disabled people to live and were affected. work independently, free of prejudice, with support, so they can do what they want to do in their lives? Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): My constituents who work at Remploy in Wishaw in the constituency of Maria Miller: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw I put the following simple fact to the House: as a result (Mr Roy) have been coming to me for the last year to of what we are announcing today, 8,000 more disabled express their fear that what has been announced this people throughout the country will have the opportunity evening would happen. After having been sacked so to move into work, compared with 1,500 people who unceremoniously today, without an earlier statement or work in Remploy factories and who will be affected. In even a phone call, I do not think they will agree with the these difficult economic times, we have to take tough Minister that they have been set free. If she has made decisions, but this is a decision that is about much more this announcement from the goodness of her heart and than that; it is about the sort of country we are—a to encourage more disabled people into mainstream country that wants to have disabled people included at employment, why is she not ensuring that each Remploy the heart of our communities instead of in segregated employee has a new job before she lays them off? factories. Maria Miller: There was a statement earlier and I just want to make sure that the hon. Lady is clear that what Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I would agree with Remploy announced today is that it will be consulting the Minister’s logic if we were in a period of full on the future of the people who will be affected by the employment across the country or in regions such as the announcements. She used the word “sacked”, but that is north-east of England, but the north-east is bearing not correct. I can absolutely assure her that the support 10% of the total cuts announced today. Sadly, I am that will be in place will be the support she would expect convinced that very few, if any, of the people affected in to be there for her constituents to make sure that every my constituency and in the north-east in general will one of them has the support to enable them to get back find other employment easily. What support will be into employment. given to the people of the north-east, so that they can get another job in the north-east? Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD): Having anticipated this event I took the opportunity to discuss with the Maria Miller: I do not doubt the hon. Gentleman’s Remploy factory in Burnley the future of the site. Will sincerity, but he needs to look at the facts. Some 20,000 the Minister confirm what will happen to the assets of disabled people were helped into employment last year, that site? Will she be prepared to hand them over to the and that was achieved not in easy economic times, but work force so that they can start up their own business? in the difficult economic times we inherited from Labour. They tell me that without the present astronomical We made sure that 20,000 disabled people were able to overhead costs from central control and Government get into employment. I can reassure him that throughout interference, they will be very successful, but they need the country we are very effectively getting disabled assurances that they can take it on as an individual people into employment, and that the £8 million we business. Will they be able to take on the company’s have put aside for employment support will help ensure assets? that his constituents get the sort of support that I know he would want them to get. Maria Miller: I assure my hon. Friend that I would very much like to work with him on that and look at the Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): The acoustics proposal he mentions. We have spoken at length about in the Chamber are slightly awkward tonight, so I did this and I am sure that, working with officials, we can not quite hear the Minister’s answer about how many make sure that the details are available to anyone who Remploy factories were closed by the last Labour has a firm proposal to put forward. Government. I would therefore appreciate it if she would repeat it. We in the Public Accounts Committee Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): I welcome the found out today that 442,700 people started apprenticeships Minister to the Chamber this evening, but hon. Members in the last year. Can she assure us that there is cross- will note that a Labour Minister in the Welsh Assembly departmental working to ensure that such opportunities saw fit to answer questions on this, with an oral statement, are available to all people? seven hours ago. In it he said: 969 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 970

[Huw Irranca-Davies] Maria Miller: The important point I made earlier to the hon. Lady about her factory is that we believe that “I regret that repeated requests by Welsh ministers for a the phase 2 factories have the opportunity to become constructive dialogue on Remploy factories in Wales have not viable and we shall be looking at ways to make that been taken up by the UK Government.” happen. I hope that, perhaps working with her, we can Will the Minister accede to the immediate request of identify somebody who is able to take on that challenge the Welsh Assembly Government for discussions about at local level. the Remploy assets so that they can work with unions, social enterprises and others to make sure that we have Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): viable ongoing businesses in all those premises? Today’s announcement is a crushing blow to the staff at Wythenshawe Remploy, who have battled against closure Maria Miller: Officials have already met officials in for four and a half years. They have made the factory the Wales Office and I am meeting with Ministers next more efficient and have boosted sales, yet their reward is week. that they are classed as a stage 1 factory, which means that it will close. Can I have an assurance from the Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): Minister that if in the 90-day consultation period a The Leeds Remploy office placed 307 people in work credible proposal is made to keep that factory open— last year—a record to be applauded. I also applaud perhaps as a social enterprise—it will be given sympathetic these efforts to end workplace segregation. Will my consideration and adequate support? hon. Friend focus on monitoring the personalised support schemes to ensure that more people are helped into Maria Miller: Yes. work in future and are not left behind as has happened in the past? Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): The heartless, callous decision announced today casts hundreds of hard-working Maria Miller: I can absolutely give that undertaking disabled people on to the scrap heap, probably for a to my hon. Friend. Again, I note that 8,000 more lifetime. The Minister continues to state that they will disabled people will be able to be supported into work get jobs elsewhere, but in my constituency, 55.5 people as a result of today’s announcements. are after every jobcentre vacancy. Can the Minister tell me where they will get employment? Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): What will be the total cost of shutting down these Remploy factories, including Maria Miller: The hon. Gentleman really should the costs of redundancy and settling with suppliers? have been listening to what I was talking about. Under the Labour Administration, 28 factories were closed in very difficult circumstances. What we are doing differently Maria Miller: This is a protected budget and we will is making sure that the proper support is put in place, make sure that the costs involved will be covered within which it probably was not in the case of factories closed the budgets that are available and that as a result of the under Labour. We want to make sure that disabled measures we are taking today more disabled people will people who are affected by the plans today have that be helped into employment over this spending review support, and I hope I can call on the hon. Gentleman’s period. Any costs associated with the changes we have support to make sure that his constituents are aware announced today will be included within existing plans. of it.

Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): Will my hon. Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab): In 2007, the Friend take every opportunity, particularly tonight and Conservatives said they would do all they could to tomorrow, to stress in the media that the funding will go support Remploy when they were in government. Does to the disabled individual rather than to the institution, the Minister agree that the shambolic and shameful way so that the voices we hear on this are not just those of the statement has been made today epitomises the the unions? Government’s cavalier and out-of-touch attitude to vulnerable people, and represents a broken promise to Maria Miller: Many people listening to the debate the dozens of disabled people in Edinburgh who are will be somewhat surprised that in this day and age we losing their jobs tonight? still have this approach to supporting disabled people in this country. I know there is union involvement in the Maria Miller: I am sorry; the hon. Gentleman needs factories and perhaps that had some bearing on the to listen to what I am saying here. What we have done as problems that the previous Administration had in taking a Government is to follow the Labour modernisation tough decisions on this issue. I assure my hon. Friend plan. We have followed it for the last two years and that we will take the right decisions for disabled people continued to make sure that in these tough economic because we are listening to their aspirations for the times £555 million continued to be available. What we future, not the unions. are not doing is wasting money; we are making sure that the money we have is going further. Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): Earlier, the Minister indicated that stage 2 factories Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): I notice such as the one in Clydebank in my constituency can that the excellent Coventry plant is down for expect no more support than stage 1 factories in finding reconsideration. I also notice that the Minister certainly a way forward to a sustainable future. Will she reconsider has not consulted me, or any of the other Coventry that position and put a taskforce into each of the stage MPs. Can we have an undertaking that she will consult 2 factories at least? the Coventry MPs? More important, to help her with 971 Employment Support7 MARCH 2012 Employment Support 972 her reconsideration we are prepared to give her a tour people in his constituency who have been supported of that very successful factory, which does work for into mainstream employment through our employment Jaguar Land Rover and other automobile industries. Is services programmes and many others. We know that the Minister planning to privatise that plant? disabled people want to be able to live independent lives, and through the changes that we are talking about Maria Miller: I am always happy to meet the hon. today we can support many, many more to do that. Gentleman. I think I have visited the factory in Coventry. We had a consultation on the process, with many Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): Croespenmaen in contributions from hon. Members, but obviously I shall my constituency has worked hard to make its business a be happy to meet Coventry Members at any point in success. It has shown faith in Remploy. It is a pity that time. the Government could not show the same faith to it. Today’s announcement is nothing short of a kick in the Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): I have visited teeth. Does the Minister believe that 90 days is long the Remploy plant in my constituency so often that I enough for these people to plan their future or try to am practically on first-name terms with most of the save their factory? work force. They are fantastic—a mix of able-bodied and disabled people—and I cannot help but fear that Maria Miller: I know the hon. Gentleman feels very they would be offended by the continuous references to strongly about this. We are absolutely showing faith in a segregated workplace. Thankfully, Dundee is not disabled people in what we are doing today. The plans earmarked for closure, but what assurances can the and proposals that we have put forward have the full Minister give the work force in Dundee that they have a endorsement and backing of many disabled people future there? throughout the country, and the work that has been done by Liz Sayce is an important contribution to the Maria Miller: The assurance I can give the hon. way we can help improve the lives of disabled people in Gentleman and the work force in Dundee is that whether Britain today. their factory is phase 1 or phase 2, they will get the support they need, either to work in mainstream Sir Alan Meale (Mansfield) (Lab): Bearing in mind employment through our £8 million support fund, or to the Minister’s statement in respect of residential training look for alternative viable ways of taking the factory colleges, she is aware of Portland training college, whose forward outside Government control. The hon. Gentleman patron is Her Majesty the Queen in this, the diamond will share with me the desire to make sure that more of jubilee year. Will the Minister accept an invitation to his disabled constituents can get work, which is why I visit that college to meet directors, staff and, of course, hope he can support our plans today. students to talk about their future?

Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con): I must say I am Maria Miller: As the hon. Gentleman will have heard amazed that I am standing here in the 21st century in my comments earlier, I understand the value of discussing state-subsidised segregated jobs. Can the Minister residential training colleges and I will be delighted to confirm that the Government spend more than £60 million accept his invitation. a year and that the operating loss on the factories was £68.3 million last year? Disabled people in my Bracknell Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): Can the constituency would welcome funding from the Government Minister tell the House when she envisages that the to support them to get into profitable jobs in the future, factories will start closing? I know that there will be a because they do not have the opportunity to be employed great deal of distress about this in north-east Wales. We in a state-subsidised factory. do not see it as a state-subsidised industry. We see it as to do with disabled people in a very challenging economic Maria Miller: My hon. Friend is right. The cumulative situation. figure for the factory losses is well in excess of £200 million. That is important money, which could have been used Maria Miller: I understand the hon. Lady’s commitment more effectively to support more disabled people throughout to supporting disabled people in her constituency. There the country into work. is a 90-day consultation period, so that will be completed and then we will talk to disabled employees about their Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Will futures. I hope we can continue to keep her up to date the Minister apologise to the deaf employees at the on that progress. Springburn Remploy factory in my constituency, who were denied the dignity of a signer to tell them this Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East afternoon that their jobs were gone? Does the Minister Cleveland) (Lab): The Minister gave a shambolic reply accept that with just 45% of disabled people employed— to my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Nic some 30% less than the non-disabled population—with Dakin), in much the same way as she addressed Remploy a flatlining economy, with 20 people in my constituency workers and the House. What are the redundancy costs chasing every job that is available, the question is: where calculated to be, and what is the impact on businesses will the jobs come from? which are customers or suppliers?

Maria Miller: I will look into the point that the hon. Maria Miller: It is very difficult to give facts and Gentleman raises about the Springburn factory. I would figures when we are in consultation. That will depend absolutely apologise to factory workers if there was not on the outcome of the consultation. I am sure the hon. a signer available. I will look into that in detail. I ask the Gentleman will be able to be furnished with those hon. Gentleman to consider the number of disabled figures when the consultation is complete. 973 7 MARCH 2012 Business without Debate 974

Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Leaving aside the EU STRUCTURAL COHESION FUNDS utterly shabby way in which the Minister tried to sneak That this House takes note of European Union Document out the announcement today—[Interruption.] Utterly No. 15243/11 and Addenda 1 to 4, relating to a draft regulation shabby. Does she not realise that one of the reasons that laying down common provisions on the European Regional there are Remploy factories in places such as the Rhondda Development Fund, the European Social Fund, the Cohesion and in Cynon Valley is that we already have some of the Fund, the European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development highest levels of unemployment and the highest levels and the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund covered by the Common Strategic Framework and laying down general provisions of disability? Will she guarantee that not a single person on the European Regional Development Fund, the European in the Aberdare factory or in Porth will be forced into Social Fund and the Cohesion Fund and repealing Regulation redundancy? (EC) No. 1083/2006; and supports the Government’s aim to reduce the administrative burden on both Member States and the Maria Miller: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his recipients of funds, and to target funds in order to maximise question and hope that he received my letter, which support for the Europe 2020 strategy for sustainable growth clarified that I enjoyed my discussions with the Porth objectives.—(Mr Vara.) factory and very much understand his support for Question agreed to. them. I gently remind him that the factory supports 74 disabled people. He needs to ensure that he is also thinking about the 12,400 disabled people in his BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (12 MARCH) constituency—[Interruption.] The Porth factory lost Ordered, around £200,000 last year. We believe that we need to That at the sitting on Monday 12 March the Speaker shall put challenge ourselves on how we can use that money more the Questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on: effectively. Last year in Wales employment service— (1) the Motion in the name of Sir George Young relating to [Interruption.] Backbench Business Committee not later than one and a half hours after their commencement; Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. (2) the Motions in the name of Sir George Young relating to Mr Bryant, you asked a question. Please listen to the Committee on Standards and Committee of Privileges and Pay answer and stop shouting across the Chamber at the for Chairs of Select Committees not later than three hours after Minister. commencement of proceedings on the motion specified in paragraph (1); Maria Miller: I was simply going to point out that (3) the Motions in the name of Mr Kevin Barron relating to Code of Conduct and All-Party Groups not later than four and a 2,000 disabled people got very good jobs in Wales last half hours after commencement of proceedings on the motion year. The hon. Gentleman really needs to focus on the specified in paragraph (1); and fact that there are employment opportunities there, but (4) the Motion in the name of Sir George Young relating to we need to ensure that his constituents and those of Localism Act 2011, etc.: scrutiny of certain orders and draft other hon. Members have the skills and support to be orders not later than the moment of interruption; able to take those jobs up. and such Questions shall include the Questions on any Amendments selected by the Speaker which may then be moved.—(Mr Vara.) Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. I ask Members to leave the Chamber quietly and save their congratulations for outside, Mr Lloyd, so that we BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (13 MARCH) can proceed. Ordered, That at the sitting on Tuesday 13 March— Business without Debate (1) paragraph (2) of Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments) shall apply to the Motion in the name of Edward Miliband as if the day were an Opposition Day; and proceedings DELEGATED LEGISLATION on the Motion may continue for three hours and shall then lapse Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing if not previously disposed of; and Order No. 118(6)), (2) notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order No. 20 (Time for taking private business), the Private Business set down SOCIAL SECURITY by the Chairman of Ways and Means shall be entered upon (whether before, at or after 7.00 pm), and may then be proceeded That the draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) with, though opposed, for three hours after which the Speaker (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2012, which shall interrupt the business.—(Mr Vara.) were laid before this House on 27 February, be approved.—(Mr Vara.) Question agreed to. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing PETITIONS Order No. 118(6)), Post Office Services (Torphichen, West Lothian) SOCIAL SECURITY That the draft Mesothelioma Lump Sum Payments (Conditions 8.17 pm and Amounts) (Amendment) Regulations 2012, which were laid before this House on 27 February, be approved.—(Mr Vara.) Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): Question agreed to. The village of Torphichen has one shop, and in that shop there was a sub-post office. Sadly, because of family circumstances, the previous owner closed the EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS shop and returned the licence for the sub-post office to Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing the Post Office. The Post Office has stuck a notice on Order No. 119(11)), the window of the shop but consulted absolutely no 975 Business without Debate 7 MARCH 2012 976 one. The shop has been bought—thank goodness—but Historical Enquiries Team unfortunately it appears that the Post Office is not Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House prepared to put back the sub-post office that was previously do now adjourn.—(Mr Vara.) part of the network. The petition, signed by 340 residents, states: The Petition of residents of Torphichen, West Lothian, 8.20 pm Declares that the Petitioners are concerned about the provision Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Thank you, Madam of Post Office services in Torphichen, following the closure of the Deputy Speaker, and the Speaker for allowing me to Post Office when the previous sub-postmaster gave up the lease highlight two cases in which the Historical Enquiries on the premises; declares that the Post Office had said that the Team has been involved: specifically, the deaths of closure would be temporary; that no consultation has been carried out on any proposal to close the Post Office permanently; and Kenneth Smyth and Hugh Lexie Cummings. declares that the Petitioners believe that a reduced service is not Policing and justice were devolved in April 2010. justifiable or acceptable. After that, on 3 November 2010, the Secretary of State The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons felt able to stand up and not only take part in a debate urges the Government to take all possible steps to ensure that the about Bloody Sunday, but take on the burden of Torphichen Post Office is reopened. apologising, along with the Prime Minister, on behalf And your Petitioners remain, etc. of the Government. On Wednesday 30 November 2011, [P001011] I asked the Secretary of State a question directly relating to the HET: Health and Social Care Bill “The HET investigated the murder of my cousin, Kenneth Smyth, on 10 December 1971—those on the street knew who 8.19 pm committed the murder—and Lexie Cummings was murdered on 15 June 1982. HET investigations into both cases concluded that Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East no action should be taken. The concern is that the investigations Cleveland) (Lab): To the House of Commons, this might not have been thorough, so does the Secretary of State petition of residents of the United Kingdom, collected accept that confidence needs to be instilled in the Unionist in Marton, Coulby Newham, Guisborough, Saltburn community and that the HET therefore has considerable work and Redcar over a period of one week, amounts to to do?” more than 700 names. The Secretary of State replied: The petition states: “I am grateful for that question. I do not entirely agree. The HET is impartial, and the latest polling commissioned on the The Petition of residents of the United Kingdom, reaction of the families is extraordinarily high: 90.5% said they Declares that the Petitioners are opposed to the Health and were very satisfied or satisfied with the performance of the Social Care Bill. HET.”—[Official Report, 30 November 2011; Vol. 536, c. 919.] The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons I am here to represent those families who suggest that urges the Government to withdraw the Health and Social Care Bill. some investigations into events during the troubles have not been concluded satisfactorily. And the Petitioners remain, etc. Why is the Bloody Sunday case any different from the [P001012] one under discussion? I could cynically suggest the difference by asking, has not enough money been spent on the investigations to warrant the attention of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland? Surely the reason could not be that the families of those men, who faithfully served Queen and country in awful times, are not worth as much. Just because those men wore the uniform of the British Army, does that make them expendable or cannon fodder? I trust that that is not the case, but I shall be very disappointed if I find out that it is. I thank each and every Member who has stayed behind to hear what the families of those men have asked me to say in this House, respecting and honouring them for the sacrifice that they made for the people of Northern Ireland and for the whole UK. The presence of every hon. Member has been noted and is appreciated. Kenneth Smyth was my cousin. I remember him well. I looked up to him as an expert shot who introduced me to shooting at a young age, as a six or seven-year-old, and represented the B-Specials of the Ulster Defence Regiment in shooting at Bisley. I have a photograph of him being presented with a prize and a medal by Bill Craig, the Home Affairs Minister from way back in the old Northern Ireland Parliament. Kenneth used to send me pigeons through the post the whole way from Strabane to Ballywalter—it gave a whole new meaning to pigeon post, so it did. If 977 Historical Enquiries Team7 MARCH 2012 Historical Enquiries Team 978

[Jim Shannon] At that time, there was a petrol bomb attack on his grandparents’ house and they had to grid their windows. the birds arrived within a couple of days they were still “In September 1971, Kenneth got married and went to live okay to eat, but if they arrived a wee bit later they were back at his family home in Castlederg, where he and his new wife not, I am afraid, quite as edible—but that is by the way. took over the top flat in a house. Friday 10 December 1971 was a day which seemed no different to any other, as the family carried I have Kenneth’s UDR beret, and my first son is on their normal routine. Kenneth had his own successful construction named after him. I admired him when he took part in business and that morning, he had collected one of his workmen shooting competitions for the UDR, and perhaps as a to take him to the job they were working on. They were travelling young boy I wanted to be like him. I can well remember along Lisdoo Road near Clady, outside Strabane, when they had the day that his life was taken away. to stop because of a rope that had been tied across the road. Kenneth’s sister Shelley described him in an interview Kenneth stopped the car”— for a book entitled, “If Stone Could Speak”, and I shall a Jeep— use it in my illustration of him: “to reverse away from it, but a number of gunmen began shooting at the vehicle. Kenneth’s passenger, Daniel McCormick, a Catholic, “Kenneth Smyth loved hunting or anything to do with the who was also an ex member of the UDR, was shot and killed” , outdoors and, as often as possible, spent his time in the fields and countryside around his native Castlederg in County Tyrone. He leaving a wife and four children, one of whom was was the eldest of four children and described as very talented disabled, while at school and with a great ability at hand crafts especially “with Kenneth being seriously wounded. Kenneth managed to anything to do with wood.” get out of the vehicle, but fell on to the ground. While he lay there, He was a joiner by trade. The book continues: he was shot again at close range and died from the injury. Kenneth’s body was taken to his church”— “Being a lot younger than Kenneth, his sister Shelley does not remember much about his earlier years, but she does remember a Church of Ireland church outside Strabane— him as being very quiet natured and a person who enjoyed fun. In “and was given a fulltime guard until the funeral on the Sunday as later years Kenneth went to stay at his grandparents house and there were fears that the body would be stolen. He was then kept his gundogs there so that he could go hunting more easily in buried with full military honours. He was the 5th UDR soldier to the nearby countryside. Because of the constant terror campaigns be murdered.” being waged in Northern Ireland, security was always of paramount The HET’s summary of intelligence said that there importance and, to supplement the regular police service, the were no recorded threats, yet there were plenty that we Special Constabulary or B Men were formed. Kenneth was a member of this force and he carried out regular security duties were aware of: the gunmen calling at Kenneth’s home, around the frontiers of Northern Ireland and guarded specific the arson attack on his grandparents’ bungalow, and installations against attack. numerous letters and phone calls to him. The family He was still a member when he decided that he would like to go therefore strongly disagrees with the HET. The HET to Canada and join the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and has also said that one man who was questioned admitted went over there to follow his ambition. It was partially the police to being there that day and to having shot at the Land and partially the wide open spaces which attracted him, but he Rover. He was tried in the Republic of Ireland, convicted only stayed a month as his grandparents pleaded with him to of offences in relation to terrorism and sentenced to a come home as they missed him so much. Around the time he term of imprisonment from 1974 to 1978, when he was came home, the B Men had been disbanded and was to be released. He continued to live in the Republic until his replaced by the Ulster Defence Regiment, so he decided to join up.” death in 1995. The obvious question is this: why he was he never prosecuted? Why was he never brought across Kenneth became a sergeant in the UDR. The book the border to answer for his crimes? Why was he never continues: extradited? The explanation that the HET provided—that “As with other members of the security forces, Kenneth was was possibly a matter of papers being lost or overlooked—is well aware of the risks and took precautions to ensure his safety not a satisfactory conclusion or an answer for the as much as he possibly could. While he was at home, he placed his family, who are still grieving. car in the garage and closed and locked the garage door. On the nights that he went out either socially or on business he left the The man named an accomplice who carried out the garage door open so that he could drive inside in safety and not murder, and despite that man being arrested in London provide himself as a target by getting out of his car to open it. for terrorist offences, he was never charged for the murder One particular night he was out and, for some unknown of Kenneth Smyth. When asked why not, the HET said reason, he closed the garage door and obviously someone who that the man denied it and the evidence was not good was watching” enough to take the case further. Does that provide not too far away closure for the family? No, it does not—far from it, “must have assumed he was at home. A group of masked and especially when it is clear that most of the people in the armed men attacked the house and forced their way inside. His area knew who had carried out the attack and were grandfather”— powerless to do anything. Has the HET investigation my grandfather— revealed any further evidence? No, it has not. “was talking on the telephone and this was pulled from the wall At this stage, I will say that I am very aware of the by one of the raiders. They made their way straight to Kenneth’s funding limitations of the HET and the fact that there bedroom, but, on seeing it empty, left the house again and ran off is only so much that it can do. My problem is that the into the darkness. After this Kenneth received numerous death closure that it was designed to bring to families, along threats including one in a note form that was left on the windscreen with the hope of prosecution, has not come close to of his vehicle when it was parked it in the nearby town of being fulfilled in Kenneth’s case. Does the Minister feel Strabane” that the fact that the HET was given a budget of some in County Tyrone. £38 million to investigate 3,268 incidents, whereas it “He took the threats seriously enough to take proper precautions cost the Bloody Sunday public inquiry £191 million to and, for months prior to his death, he slept in a different house investigate the events surrounding the deaths of 13 men, every night so that he would not have a known routine.” reflects the differences between the two cases? 979 Historical Enquiries Team7 MARCH 2012 Historical Enquiries Team 980

Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): I am grateful to The family refused to accept a letter of sympathy from the hon. Gentleman for giving way. I am sure that I the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, James speak for the whole House in saying that our profound Prior, which was delivered to them on the day of the sympathies are with him in the memory of Kenneth funeral. They sent the letter back with the message that Smyth. There is a great deal of concern across the “the hands of the security forces should be freed”. House about the time frame in which the HET— A spokesman for the family said at the time: Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. “Nothing is being done, feelings are running very high on this Will the hon. Gentleman turn around so that we can all issue. Innocent, defenceless people are being mown down and no hear him? action is being taken against the godfathers who are walking the streets. They are getting away with murder”. Stephen Pound: I apologise profoundly, Madam Deputy When the HET investigated the death of Lexie Speaker. There is a great deal of concern throughout Cummings, it found a different story. It found that a the House about the time frame in which the HET thorough investigation was carried out by the RUC at conducts its inquiries. The Northern Ireland Assembly the time, which found cartridge discharge residue— has requested that the Secretary of State hold multi-party gunpowder residue—on the suspect. It found fibres talks on this subject. Does the hon. Gentleman agree from the suspect’s trousers on the seat of the car, with me that that seems to be a positive way forward, in which was left abandoned at the scene of the crime. The accordance with the expressed formal wish of the Northern two guns that were used were found by the Garda Ireland Assembly? Siochana the next month and tests confirmed that that was the case. Jim Shannon: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The talks are about the past. I am talking It was an open-and-shut case, and yet questions must about specific incidents and cases involving the HET. I be answered. Why did William Gerard McMonagle not feel that these questions have to be answered. However, stand trial for the murder of Lexie Cummings? How I accept his point. was it that William Gerard McMonagle was allowed to If the HET had had the appropriate funding from travel across the border to safety and freedom, and to central Government at the time of its investigations, begin a new life, which has led to him being the mayor when it was under the direct control of the Secretary of of Letterkenny today? Why was he never extradited, State, would the outcomes have been more extensive when it was known where he was? Why was there no and brought satisfaction to the family? co-operation between the Garda Siochana and the RUC to bring McMonagle to justice? Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): I thank the hon. The HET did not have access to the answers or Gentleman for giving way.We appreciate the deep sensitivity criteria that the Director of Public Prosecutions used to of the issues of which he speaks. I speak as the one issue his decision, which stated that in 1986 there was party leader who lobbied for and supported the creation not a of the HET. The right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), who was the Secretary of State at the time, “suitable case to make a request to the authorities in the Republic of Ireland for the return of Mr McMonagle”. can vouch for the fact that only one party lobbied for the HET and supported the Chief Constable of the Why was that? Was the HET prevented from finding time in so doing. Perhaps if more of us had recognised out the answers and the truth? what was involved, we would have secured better resources How did the DPP reach his decision of 2003? It was and, more important, a stronger mandate for the HET. that The limitations on the HET’s mandate are part of the “having reviewed the evidence and information now available and problem, as this important case demonstrates. obtained the opinion of counsel, I have concluded that there is no longer a reasonable prospect of convicting William Gerard Jim Shannon: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that McMonagle of any criminal Offence. I therefore rescind the intervention. I agree with him wholeheartedly that if direction of 13 December 1982 and direct no prosecution of there had been better funding, the investigations might William Gerard McMonagle”. have come to more successful conclusions. What was the evidence, and why were the family not The second case I mentioned at the start of my made aware of it? Can the Minister tell us what answer speech is that of Hugh Cummings, known as Lexie. we should give the family about the criteria by which Twenty-nine years ago on 15 June 1982, one of life’s the decision was reached? The HET cannot provide the true gentlemen was killed when Lexie Cummings, aged answer—who can? Can he? Why was McMonagle no 39, from Artigarvan outside Strabane in County Tyrone longer classified as on the run even though the HET and a part-time member of the Ulster Defence Regiment, confirmed that he was never granted an amnesty? was shot by the IRA at close range in the back and the chest as he got into his car in the centre of Strabane, Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): The Minister during his lunch break from the menswear shop where of State may reply by saying that some of the very he had worked for 25 years. important points that my hon. Friend is making are “Lexie was well known and held in high regard by everyone in about devolved matters. Does my hon. Friend agree, his community. The small village of Artigarvan came to a standstill however, that we have difficulty in explaining to our for his funeral, where the Presbyterian minister told mourners: constituents why, on the one hand, these matters are all ‘In the face of tremendous provocation you have remained a devolved and there is a limited sum of money to investigate totally loyal and law-abiding community.Youhave watched helplessly the very flower of manhood being systematically murdered. Your hundreds of killings, yet on the other hand the Minister anger and frustration runs very, very deep. Yet there has been no and his colleagues stand in this House and announce retaliation and there will be no retaliation because your faith is expensive and long inquiries, albeit not open-ended built on the solid rock of the righteousness of God’”. judicial inquiries, into other cases? 981 Historical Enquiries Team7 MARCH 2012 Historical Enquiries Team 982

Jim Shannon: My right hon. Friend puts my case am unable to comment in detail on HET operational coherently, and I thank him for that. matters, which are for the Chief Constable of the Police There are too many questions that the HET cannot Service of Northern Ireland. answer, due to its scope and resources, but to which the Let us remind ourselves of the history of the HET. It family of Lexie Cummings deserve an answer. They was set up in September 2005 to investigate some turn on the news and see the mayor of Letterkenny, 3,259 unsolved deaths relating to the troubles from Gerry McMonagle, who ran from justice in Northern 1968 to the Belfast agreement in 1998. I would like to Ireland after having been proven to have been at the put on record the Government’s strong support for the scene with gunpowder residue on him, embracing his HET and its work with the families of those killed. freedom and his position in life. The family visit the The HET provides a valuable role in bringing resolution grave of a true gentleman, Lexie Cummings, with to and addressing any concerns that may remain from questions in their minds and grief in their hearts. Who the families of victims of the troubles. That is supported can answer their questions and give them closure? by the findings of a recent survey, which showed that Questions must be answered, because the family cannot 90% of family members—across all community groups— forget that Lexie Cummings was a good man and indicated that they were “satisfied” or “very satisfied” worthy of justice. They know that for a reason unknown with the HET. That is an extraordinarily high figure, to them, someone has seen fit to give an unrepentant and the HET is to be commended for achieving such republican murderer the opportunity to parade around, high satisfaction rates. with no fear of justice, in his mayoral robes. That is cruelty in the extreme, and I am here today to ask for The hon. Gentleman mentioned funding. Let me parity in the help provided to that family and others so comment briefly on the current situation. The HET is that they can have closure, as my right hon. Friend midway through its seventh year of work, and it is clearly said. worth noting that its spend to date is around £34 million. Let us compare that with the combined total cost of Those who had committed crimes during the troubles £300 million for recent inquiries. Bloody Sunday—I were asked to come forward before the Good Friday gently remind the hon. Gentleman that the Saville inquiry agreement. Those who did not admit their crimes but was set up under the previous Government—cost remained at large cannot be given the same amnesty, £192 million; the Hamill inquiry cost £32 million; the nor do they deserve their freedom. All the men and Nelson inquiry cost £46 million, and the Wright inquiry women who were murdered in the troubles by cost £30 million. The good value for money that the paramilitaries—in uniform or out of uniform—demand HET provides is clear, as opposed to open-ended and our respect, which I know we give them. I feel that the costly inquiries, of which, as the Secretary of State has Northern Ireland Office is not giving their families the made clear time and again, there will be no more. right support, and I know that a great deal of Unionists feel that, in the Government’s eyes, their pain is a To date, I understand that the HET has already second-class pain. The lack of Government representation investigated, or is in the process of investigating, tells me that that view may be justified, as we in the 2,423 deaths, which are dealt with in a chronological Unionist community feel. The washing of hands did order. Of those, the HET can currently say that 1,375 not make Pontius Pilate clean, and it will not make were caused by republicans; 724 were caused by loyalists; others of that ilk clean in this case. 265 were caused by security forces; and 59 were caused by “unknown”. I understand that the HET has also There is a social media page on Facebook called referred 26 cases to the PSNI for further investigation. “Castlederg Forgotten Friends”. Part of the reason for its being set up was that Castlederg, which is one and a All those cases are the subject of ongoing live half miles from the border, had 26 unsolved murders— investigations, and it would therefore be inappropriate 26 families with unanswered questions. For two of for me to comment further. However, I note the valuable those families, I have made their case and their point role that the PSNI and the HET play in helping bereaved tonight. They need help. The site clearly lists those who families find justice. were murdered, and under each post it says, “Lest we We remain strong supporters of the HET. Both my forget”. Let that be the cry from this House tonight, right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Secretary and I hope from the Minister. We will remember them, of State for Northern Ireland have on many occasions and we will support their families and help them grieve highlighted their support for the work of the HET. their loss in whatever way we can. Not every investigation will result in closure for the family and friends. I am aware of how strongly the hon. 8.39 pm Gentleman understandably feels about the brutal murder of his cousin, Kenneth Smyth, in December 1971, and The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Lexie Cummings in June 1982. Both were members of Swire): I congratulate the hon. Member for Strangford the UDR, which suffered so badly during the troubles. (Jim Shannon) on securing the debate and thank the other Members who have participated in it. However, for many families, the HET’s reports bring comfort and some understanding of the circumstances There has been no washing of hands, as the hon. of the death of a loved one. I commend its work to the Gentleman suggested. However, as hon. Members House. know, following the devolution of policing and justice in April 2010, matters relating to the Historical Question put and agreed to. Enquiries Team are the responsibility of the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland, particularly the Minister of Justice, to whom I spoke yesterday. You will 8.43 pm therefore understand, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I House adjourned. 983 7 MARCH 2012 Deferred Division 984

Deferred Division Gray, Mr James Maynard, Paul Greening, rh Justine McCartney, Jason Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McCartney, Karl SAFETY OF OFFSHORE OIL AND GAS ACTIVITIES Griffiths, Andrew McCrea, Dr William That this House takes note of European Union Document Gummer, Ben McIntosh, Miss Anne No. 16175/11 and Addenda 1 to 4, relating to a Draft Regulation Halfon, Robert McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick on the safety of offshore oil and gas prospection, exploration and Hames, Duncan McPartland, Stephen production activities: supports the Government’s view that the Hammond, rh Mr Philip McVey, Esther UK has a proven, robust offshore environmental and safety Hammond, Stephen Mensch, Louise regime; and further supports the Government’s intention to negotiate Hancock, Mr Mike Menzies, Mark a legal instrument which ensures that high standards of health Hands, Greg Metcalfe, Stephen and safety and high levels of protection for the environment are Harper, Mr Mark Mills, Nigel maintained across Europe in respect of oil and gas operations, and that any new proposals do not negatively impact upon the Harrington, Richard Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew present UK regime. Harris, Rebecca Moore, rh Michael Hart, Simon Morgan, Nicky The House divided: Ayes 308, Noes 183. Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Morris, David Division No. 484] Heald, Oliver Morris, James Heath, Mr David Mosley, Stephen AYES Heaton-Harris, Chris Mulholland, Greg Hemming, John Mundell, rh David Adams, Nigel Clark, rh Greg Hermon, Lady Munt, Tessa Afriyie, Adam Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hinds, Damian Murray, Sheryll Aldous, Peter Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Newmark, Mr Brooks Alexander, rh Danny Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hollingbery, George Newton, Sarah Amess, Mr David Collins, Damian Hollobone, Mr Philip Nokes, Caroline Andrew, Stuart Colvile, Oliver Hopkins, Kris Norman, Jesse Bacon, Mr Richard Cox, Mr Geoffrey Horwood, Martin Nuttall, Mr David Baker, Norman Crabb, Stephen Hosie, Stewart O’Brien, Mr Stephen Baker, Steve Crockart, Mike Howell, John Offord, Mr Matthew Baldry, Tony Crouch, Tracey Hughes, rh Simon Ollerenshaw, Eric Baldwin, Harriett Davey, Mr Edward Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Opperman, Guy Barclay, Stephen Davies, David T. C. Hunter, Mark Osborne, rh Mr George Baron, Mr John (Monmouth) Jackson, Mr Stewart Ottaway, Richard Barwell, Gavin Davies, Glyn James, Margot Paisley, Ian Bebb, Guto Davies, Philip Javid, Sajid Parish, Neil Beith, rh Sir Alan de Bois, Nick Johnson, Gareth Patel, Priti Benyon, Richard Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Johnson, Joseph Paterson, rh Mr Owen Beresford, Sir Paul Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Jones, Andrew Pawsey, Mark Berry, Jake Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Jones, Mr David Penning, Mike Bingham, Andrew Doyle-Price, Jackie Jones, Mr Marcus Penrose, John Binley, Mr Brian Drax, Richard Kawczynski, Daniel Percy, Andrew Blackman, Bob Duddridge, James Kirby, Simon Perry, Claire Blunt, Mr Crispin Duncan, rh Mr Alan Knight, rh Mr Greg Phillips, Stephen Boles, Nick Dunne, Mr Philip Kwarteng, Kwasi Pickles, rh Mr Eric Bone, Mr Peter Edwards, Jonathan Laing, Mrs Eleanor Pincher, Christopher Bottomley, Sir Peter Ellis, Michael Lamb, Norman Poulter, Dr Daniel Bradley, Karen Ellison, Jane Lancaster, Mark Prisk, Mr Mark Brady, Mr Graham Ellwood, Mr Tobias Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Pritchard, Mark Brake, rh Tom Elphicke, Charlie Latham, Pauline Pugh, John Bray, Angie Evans, Graham Leadsom, Andrea Raab, Mr Dominic Brazier, Mr Julian Evans, Jonathan Lee, Jessica Randall, rh Mr John Brine, Steve Evennett, Mr David Lee, Dr Phillip Redwood, rh Mr John Brokenshire, James Fabricant, Michael Leech, Mr John Rees-Mogg, Jacob Browne, Mr Jeremy Fallon, Michael Lefroy, Jeremy Reid, Mr Alan Bruce, Fiona Farron, Tim Leslie, Charlotte Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Bruce, rh Malcolm Featherstone, Lynne Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Buckland, Mr Robert Field, rh Mr Frank Lewis, Brandon Robertson, Angus Burley, Mr Aidan Field, Mark Lewis, Dr Julian Robertson, Mr Laurence Burns, Conor Foster, rh Mr Don Lilley, rh Mr Peter Rogerson, Dan Burns, rh Mr Simon Francois, rh Mr Mark Lloyd, Stephen Rosindell, Andrew Burstow, Paul Freeman, George Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Rudd, Amber Burt, Alistair Fuller, Richard Burt, Lorely Gale, Sir Roger Long, Naomi Russell, Sir Bob Byles, Dan Garnier, Mr Edward Lopresti, Jack Rutley, David Cable, rh Vince Garnier, Mark Lord, Jonathan Sanders, Mr Adrian Cairns, Alun Gauke, Mr David Loughton, Tim Sandys, Laura Campbell, Mr Gregory George, Andrew Luff, Peter Scott, Mr Lee Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Gibb, Mr Nick Lumley, Karen Selous, Andrew Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Gilbert, Stephen Macleod, Mary Shannon, Jim Carmichael, Neil Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Shapps, rh Grant Chishti, Rehman Goodwill, Mr Robert MacShane, rh Mr Denis Sharma, Alok Chope, Mr Christopher Graham, Richard Main, Mrs Anne Sheerman, Mr Barry Clappison, Mr James Grant, Mrs Helen Maude, rh Mr Francis Shelbrooke, Alec 985 Deferred Division7 MARCH 2012 Deferred Division 986

Shepherd, Mr Richard Vaizey, Mr Edward Flello, Robert McFadden, rh Mr Pat Simpson, David Vara, Mr Shailesh Flint, rh Caroline McGovern, Jim Simpson, Mr Keith Vickers, Martin Flynn, Paul McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Skidmore, Chris Walker, Mr Charles Fovargue, Yvonne McKechin, Ann Smith, Miss Chloe Walker, Mr Robin Francis, Dr Hywel Meale, Sir Alan Smith, Henry Wallace, Mr Ben Gapes, Mike Mearns, Ian Smith, Julian Walter, Mr Robert Gardiner, Barry Miller, Andrew Smith, Sir Robert Weatherley, Mike Gilmore, Sheila Morris, Grahame M. Soames, rh Nicholas Webb, Steve Glass, Pat (Easington) Soubry, Anna Weir, Mr Mike Godsiff, Mr Roger Munn, Meg Spencer, Mr Mark Wheeler, Heather Goggins, rh Paul Murphy, rh Paul Stephenson, Andrew White, Chris Goodman, Helen Murray, Ian Stewart, Rory Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Greatrex, Tom Nash, Pamela Streeter, Mr Gary Whittaker, Craig Green, Kate O’Donnell, Fiona Stride, Mel Whittingdale, Mr John Griffith, Nia Onwurah, Chi Stuart, Mr Graham Wiggin, Bill Gwynne, Andrew Owen, Albert Hain, rh Mr Peter Pearce, Teresa Stunell, Andrew Willetts, rh Mr David Sturdy, Julian Hamilton, Mr David Perkins, Toby Williams, Mr Mark Swales, Ian Hamilton, Fabian Pound, Stephen Williams, Roger Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Hanson, rh Mr David Qureshi, Yasmin Williams, Stephen Swire, rh Mr Hugo Harman, rh Ms Harriet Raynsford, rh Mr Williamson, Gavin Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Harris, Mr Tom Nick Thurso, John Willott, Jenny Healey, rh John Reynolds, Emma Timpson, Mr Edward Wilson, Mr Rob Hendrick, Mark Riordan, Mrs Linda Tomlinson, Justin Wishart, Pete Hepburn, Mr Stephen Ritchie, Ms Margaret Tredinnick, David Wollaston, Dr Sarah Hillier, Meg Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Truss, Elizabeth Wright, Jeremy Hopkins, Kelvin Rotheram, Steve Turner, Mr Andrew Wright, Simon Howarth, rh Mr George Roy, Mr Frank Tyrie, Mr Andrew Young, rh Sir George Hunt, Tristram Ruane, Chris Uppal, Paul Zahawi, Nadhim Irranca-Davies, Huw Ruddock, rh Dame Jamieson, Cathy Joan NOES Jarvis, Dan Sarwar, Anas Jenkin, Mr Bernard Seabeck, Alison Abbott, Ms Diane Clarke, rh Mr Tom Johnson, rh Alan Sharma, Mr Virendra Abrahams, Debbie Clwyd, rh Ann Johnson, Diana Sheridan, Jim Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Coaker, Vernon Jones, Graham Shuker, Gavin Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Coffey, Ann Jones, Helen Skinner, Mr Dennis Alexander, Heidi Connarty, Michael Jones, Mr Kevan Slaughter, Mr Andy Ali, Rushanara Corbyn, Jeremy Jones, Susan Elan Smith, Angela Anderson, Mr David Crausby, Mr David Jowell, rh Tessa Smith, Nick Ashworth, Jonathan Creasy, Stella Keeley, Barbara Smith, Owen Austin, Ian Cunningham, Alex Kendall, Liz Spellar, rh Mr John Bailey, Mr Adrian Cunningham, Mr Jim Khan, rh Sadiq Stringer, Graham Bain, Mr William Cunningham, Tony Lavery, Ian Stuart, Ms Gisela Balls, rh Ed Dakin, Nic Lazarowicz, Mark Tami, Mark Banks, Gordon Danczuk, Simon Leslie, Chris Thornberry, Emily Barron, rh Mr Kevin David, Mr Wayne Lewis, Mr Ivan Timms, rh Stephen Bayley, Hugh De Piero, Gloria Love, Mr Andrew Trickett, Jon Beckett, rh Margaret Denham, rh Mr John Lucas, Caroline Turner, Karl Benn, rh Hilary Dobbin, Jim Lucas, Ian Twigg, Derek Betts, Mr Clive Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Mactaggart, Fiona Twigg, Stephen Blackman-Woods, Roberta Doran, Mr Frank Mahmood, Shabana Umunna, Mr Chuka Blears, rh Hazel Dowd, Jim Malhotra, Seema Vaz, Valerie Blenkinsop, Tom Doyle, Gemma Mann, John Walley, Joan Blomfield, Paul Dromey, Jack Marsden, Mr Gordon Watts, Mr Dave Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Durkan, Mark McCann, Mr Michael Whitehead, Dr Alan Brennan, Kevin Eagle, Ms Angela McCarthy, Kerry Williamson, Chris Brown, Lyn Eagle, Maria McClymont, Gregg Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Brown, Mr Russell Efford, Clive McDonagh, Siobhain Woodcock, John Bryant, Chris Elliott, Julie McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Burden, Richard Engel, Natascha McDonnell, John Wright, David Campbell, Mr Alan Esterson, Bill Campbell, Mr Ronnie Evans, Chris Caton, Martin Farrelly, Paul Question accordingly agreed to. Chapman, Mrs Jenny Fitzpatrick, Jim 271WH 7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 272WH

order, they are: Greater Manchester, Merseyside, South Westminster Hall Yorkshire, Tyne and Wear, West Midlands and West Yorkshire. The six mets serve 11 million people, and that does Wednesday 7 March 2012 not include the transient population. The mets provide more than 50% of professional full-time firefighters. In the event of a major national disaster, the mets would [HYWEL WILLIAMS in the Chair] be expected to provide half our national resilience capacity, as they have in the past. If the cuts proceed in the present format, services will Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) be unsustainable, leaving the UK more vulnerable. The Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting risk and the economic effect of disasters would be be now adjourned.—(Robert Neill.) significantly greater in the met areas. The Trafford centre in Greater Manchester is the largest industrial 9.30 am estate in Europe, and two of the biggest football clubs in the world are in the same area. Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): It is pleasure to open the debate under your chairmanship, Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab): I congratulate Mr Williams. my hon. Friend on obtaining today’s debate which, as May I first thank my right hon. Friend the Member Members can see, has generated huge interest. Does she for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) for all the share my concerns about the resilience of the fire service? work he has done on the funding cuts in metropolitan Last year, we had the disturbances in Greater authorities? Those who have been following the issue Manchester—in Salford and Manchester—and there know the sheer amount of work he has done to build was also the possibility of national incidents. Does she cross-party consensus. That includes organising meetings, feel that the unfairness of the settlement could result in especially with the Under-Secretary of State for a reduction of our resilience and our ability to tackle Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member such challenges? for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill), who has responsibility for the fire services. I also thank those Yasmin Qureshi: I agree with my right hon. Friend. right hon. and hon. Members who are attending the Greater Manchester also faces the threat of possible debate, as well as those who could not attend, but who terrorist attacks. have been campaigning on this issue. I want to pay special tribute to Steve Morris, who was Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): My hon. part of the green watch at Bolton central fire station. Friend mentioned the Trafford centre and the football He was part of a nine-man crew that was called to and cricket grounds in my constituency, and we should attend a fire at a house in my constituency. The narrowness add Trafford Park industrial estate. We therefore have a of a nearby alleyway meant that the fire brigade vehicle number of high-profile, high-risk sites, and it is important could not get near the house, and the hose was not long that they are protected and resourced. Does my hon. enough to get into it. Steve and three other brave Friend agree, however, that if we can deploy resources firefighters therefore ran towards the house, taking a only to those high-risk, high-profile sites, there will be massive risk. Steve said that no back-filling to other less risky sites, which will mean “when inside searching for occupants there was a flash and I that smaller incidents will escalate and become larger realised that my uniform was on fire. I was like a human torch. and more dangerous? The skin on my face felt like it was melting and my gloves had shrunk on to my hands.” Yasmin Qureshi: I entirely agree. As my hon. Friend Steve was unconscious in hospital for seven weeks. eloquently put it, other areas will be given lower priority. After he woke up, he stayed in hospital for a further eight months and had numerous operations. He suffered David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): I congratulate burns to 52% of his body and had to have all his fingers the hon. Lady on obtaining the debate, and I pay tribute amputated. He also broke an elbow and damaged his to all our firefighters, both full time and part time. spine, and he had to learn to walk again. I know the Leaving aside the proposed cuts, does the hon. Lady family he tried to rescue—Mrs Begum, aged 71, and her agree that another issue that will definitely compound granddaughter Alana, aged four, who was visiting from this situation is whether Europe gets its way on the Australia. Mr Morris is now married to his long-term working time directive? partner, Pauline, and he is still contributing greatly to the community. Yasmin Qureshi: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s Today’s debate is about recognising the special work point, but the issue he raises is debatable. Obviously, it of firefighters and the daily risk that they take on our is a European directive, and I do not really want to get behalf. I hope we can continue to build the spirit of into that issue. cross-party consensus on this issue—for them and for ourselves. I am sure the Minister, too, is concerned The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for about the safety of our citizens. Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): In The background to the debate is the settlement for an endeavour to be helpful to all Members—[Interruption.] the six metropolitan fire authorities—I will refer to I hope the hon. Lady will take it in that spirit. I hope them hereafter as the mets—which have been adversely Members will find it helpful if I say that it remains the affected by the funding proposals. In purely alphabetical Government’s firm intention to protect the opt-out 273WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 274WH

[Robert Neill] Yasmin Qureshi: Again, I entirely agree. I am just about to come on to the unfairness of the cuts to from the working time directive, which is rightly accepted—I Greater Manchester fire authority, as compared with, hope the hon. Lady will agree—as a critical issue for the say, Cheshire. fire service. I hope she will forgive me for taking the Greater Manchester is one of the largest brigades in opportunity to get that on the record early in the the UK, covering 500 square miles and serving a residential debate. population of 2.5 million. It is on track to make £12.5 million of savings, but to achieve that and carry Yasmin Qureshi: I thank the Minister for that out further cuts it can crew only 59 fire engines during intervention. the day and 55 during the night. To crew a fire engine The mets have the most fire calls per head of population, 24 hours a day all year round costs £750,000. As a result as well as the highest levels of deprivation, which everyone of the cuts, 15 fire engines will become unavailable for accepts is one of the single biggest determining risks in use. During a dry spring or summer, the brigade can fires. The met areas also have concentrated conurbations, regularly have 40 fire engines committed to fires across with many streets full of terraced houses, offices, and the moorlands, protecting roads, villages and homes other buildings. The risks in the mets are therefore and areas of outstanding beauty. Greater Manchester greater than in the leafy suburbs. fire authority will simply not be able to maintain minimum With all the challenges they face, the six mets have cover for town and city protection. Nor will it be able to been very responsible and prudent with public money. do preventive work such as the 60,000 home safety They have already delivered 62% of the savings in the visits it completes each year. That work has had a fire budget across the two years of cuts, and they have profound effect on reducing the numbers of accidental done that with a minimum impact on front-line services. fires. The service will not be able to do the work with The cuts planned for future years are unsustainable and young people and children that has led to significant would lead to life-threatening reductions in fire cover reductions in deliberate fires, and to lives being turned and national resilience capacity. Fire services have already round. he mets, as well as the right hon. and hon. cut out the fat, and they will soon be cutting to the Members present, are asking for a fairer allocation of bone—I hope the vegetarians among us will forgive my funds across all fire authorities. analogy. Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): I congratulate Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): I add my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Is not it ironic my voice to the congratulations given to my hon. Friend that the most efficient fire authorities, in the places with on obtaining the debate. Is she aware that the chief fire the highest levels of deprivation and the highest risk of officer of Merseyside, among others, has made it clear fire, are the ones whose budgets are being cut furthest, in briefings that he is concerned that if the cuts go whereas some more affluent authorities, which are less ahead, even on optimistic assumptions about the impact, at risk, are being given an increase? Does not that show he will be in danger of not being able to meet his how bad the system is? It is up to the Minister to defend statutory obligations? that system, and move away from a situation in which Yasmin Qureshi: I agree with the hon. Lady. The chief fire officers cannot work out how he reached his figures. executive of my fire authority says the same thing. I was going to talk about the cuts using the example of Yasmin Qureshi: I thank my hon. Friend for that Greater Manchester fire authority, because that relates excellent point. to my constituency. We need either a risk-based grant approach, with a more even and fairer distribution of cuts across the fire Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): I congratulate and rescue services, or an alternative method of additional my hon. Friend on initiating the debate, and on her uplift funding to the mets that recognises their wider conduct of it. I am full of praise for what she is doing. It contribution to the safety of our societies and communities. is difficult to understand why the review formula should I ask the Minister to recognise the unfairness and the mean a 13% fall in the financial grant to the West unsatisfactory nature of the current grant mechanism. Midlands over the past two years, which compares to a figure of 6.5% nationally, and why the met areas, and Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): I congratulate certainly the West Midlands, have been picked on and my hon. Friend on obtaining the debate, and I hope victimised as we have. that the Minister is listening to this part of it, as well as Yasmin Qureshi: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. the part to which he responded earlier. The key issue seems to be that in the past we have received greater John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): I efficiency savings from the mets; and we have had congratulate the hon. Lady on obtaining the debate, bigger cuts in the first two years of the current spending and I pay tribute to the firefighters. Obviously, she and review. The important thing now is to make sure that we I will not agree on the general need to reduce public do not get bigger cuts in the next two years. That spending, but does she accept that there are concerns on preventive work must continue. There are high-risk steel both sides of the House about the equity between works in my constituency, as well as the deprivation metropolitan areas, the London area and the shire that my hon. Friend has discussed. We cannot have a counties? I thank the Minister for agreeing that fire reduction in the number of fire engines and stations officers can speak to civil servants to deal with the that cover those important responsibilities. details of the formula, but people on both sides of the House will be concerned to see that the outcome is Yasmin Qureshi: I thank my hon. Friend for that more equitable than it has been to date. excellent point. 275WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 276WH

Greater Manchester fire service has had to make cuts, deprived fire authority areas in the country are covered and it has done so. Now it must make a 9% cut, whereas by metropolitan brigades, and they have been handed Cheshire will get a 2% increase. Many right hon. and the heaviest cuts. Also, no consideration was given to hon. Members have made that point this morning. A the reforms and efficiencies already made in services cynic could be forgiven for thinking that the only when the cuts were calculated. For example, in West explanation for the disparity is that most of the Members Midlands new crewing systems have already been of Parliament in Cheshire belong to the coalition parties, introduced. Cover has been reduced in quieter periods. and most Members of Parliament in Greater Manchester New appliances have been brought in to deal with are Labour. I hope that that is not the case. I have specific incidents. However, brigades that have not yet deliberately tried not to go into too many statistics and undertaken such reforms, such as London, have been percentages, which I know the Minister will be well cut far less. aware of. I have tried to make a case for the mets, and I hope that the Minister will consider the matter fairly Hazel Blears: On the important point that my hon. and judiciously. I will not speak any longer, because so Friend is making about reform, many metropolitan many right hon. and hon. Members want to contribute authorities, including Greater Manchester, have been to the debate. making reforms, reducing jobs, reskilling and redesigning the service for years. Does he agree that these proposals Several hon. Members rose— are incredibly short-sighted because they will cut prevention? Therefore, rather than saving money in the long term, Hywel Williams (in the Chair): Order. A large number this unfair grant settlement will increase the cost to the of hon. Members have written in—nine at least—so I whole fire service. appeal to them to keep speeches short. The screens at the back of the Chamber are being attended to. We do Ian Austin: That is absolutely right. Brigades that not have a Government Whip present, although I thought have not undertaken these reforms should be the ones that Mr Brady might have abandoned his distinguished that come under the most pressure to achieve them now. career for the delights of the Whips Office; but clearly If savings have to be made, those are the areas from he has not. which they should come. I call Ian Austin. [Interruption.] One of the reasons why West Midlands stands to suffer the most is that we maintain the lowest council 9.47 pm tax precept in the country. It is just £47.83 for a band D property, compared with £87.84 for residents in County Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): I am grateful, Durham. We are therefore more heavily reliant on formula Mr Williams. I am sorry; I thought you would call grant than others, so we receive a much higher cut to the someone over on the Government side first. overall force budget. Furthermore, part of the difference In my constituency, Sedgley fire station has already has been caused by the Government’s decision to award been closed, as a result of the cuts and savings that West a specific grant to fire authorities and councils that is Midlands fire service must make. When it closed, Dudley equivalent to a council tax rise of 2.5%—if council tax station was allocated an extra targeted response vehicle, is frozen this year. That has benefited those with higher so it had one of those—it is basically a smaller fire council tax, as they have obviously received proportionately engine—and the two standard engines that it had before. more. Now it will lose one of those, and the targeted vehicle Representatives of the metropolitan authorities have will go as well, to be replaced by a Range Rover. When put together a series of cost-neutral proposals that will Sedgley closed, we were told that other parts of my ensure a fairer settlement in 2013-14 and 2014-15. They constituency would be covered by fire engines from are asking the Minister to consider implementing a flat Tipton station, but that will also lose an engine. percentage cut to formula grant, so that all fire services The background is that when all fire and rescue play their part in achieving the savings that he says have services were expecting to face cuts as part of the to be made. They say that that could easily be achieved comprehensive spending review, they planned well in through ministerial use of the floor damping mechanism advance, to protect their communities. However, when and that metropolitan authorities would still shoulder the exact figures for each service were announced, it was the heaviest cuts over the four years. immediately clear that the cuts were anything but fair. As we have heard, some were handed increases to their Mr Winnick: In a briefing paper from the Association formula grant, whereas others were handed cuts, such of Metropolitan Fire and Rescue Authorities, of which as West Midlands, which is being given the biggest cut I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware, it is stated that if to its revenue spending power—7.73%—of any brigade the present formula goes ahead and we do not have the in the country. Even taking into account the effect of fair formula that we want, there will be 40 redundancies the proportion of council tax to grant and the small on a 13.5% reduction in grant, which is obviously a special grant to encourage a council tax freeze, a number great danger to our constituents. A 27% cut over the of brigades still receive more money in formula grant next few years could cause the loss of 300 posts after than they received in 2010-11. Cheshire is an example. natural wastage. Is that not a great danger to our In addition to the unfair way in which the grant is constituents in the west midlands? I hope that the calculated, it is based on an illogical formula, which Minister will respond and recognise our concern. does not take account of a number of key considerations. As we have heard, many of the most deprived areas are Ian Austin: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I hope among the worst hit, despite the well-established link that the Minister will address those points when he between deprivation and fire. Four of the top five most responds to the debate later. 277WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 278WH

Mr Watts: Is my hon. Friend aware that the areas, while making real-terms increases in funding for Government’s proposals are led by the fact that they Devon and Somerset, Dorset, Staffordshire, Cheshire, expect people to make efficiency savings? Bearing in Essex and Hampshire. Is there not a pattern emerging mind that metropolitan authorities already have the about the nature of the authorities that are facing these most efficient fire services, it will make any further double-national-average cuts and the authorities that savings more difficult to achieve. Is this not rewarding are seeing real-term increases? I will leave it to Members the most inefficient fire services at the expense of the to draw their own conclusions. most efficient ones? How can authorities such as Merseyside deal with that 12% cut when they have already made the savings Ian Austin: That is absolutely right. In all other areas, over a number of years? Perhaps the Minister can also the Government argue for reform, savings and efficiencies, answer the point about why they have had that cut, yet here we find the authorities that have done the most while others have had increases at the same time. Merseyside and made the greatest savings being penalised the most. has made the back-office and management savings, put Forgive me for my cynicism, but it does seem that many in place a three-year pay freeze and taken money from of the areas represented by the Minister’s right hon. and the dynamic reserve. hon. Friends are being saved from the cuts that the areas represented by so many Opposition Members are The issues of resilience capacity and heavy industry having to make. that we talked about in Greater Manchester are also true of Merseyside. Just down the road from my Mr Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con): constituency are the docks, which are surrounded by I am one of the Government Members who represents residential areas. Therefore, in the event of a major one of the affected metropolitan authorities. Quite apart incident, not just the industrial areas but the nearby from the importance of getting fairness for all metropolitan residential areas would suffer. Without the necessary areas, is it not also an irony that one of the effects could back-up, how can those areas be protected? be to reduce the capacity of metropolitan fire services The plans for future years make various assumptions. to provide surrounding counties with the support and The chief fire officer has already assumed the pay the backfilling that are so important? freeze, a 4% council tax increase and the fact that no additional contributions will be made to the pension, Ian Austin: That is right. To be fair to the hon. yet he is still short by £8.5 million. Merseyside has made Gentleman, he is one of the few Government Members the savings that it can. If further cuts are double the who are taking part in the debate, and he is absolutely national average, as they have been so far—the national right. The forces that cover metropolitan areas provide average is £8.5 million—goodness only knows where he a really important service to the whole country, which is would go to make those savings. why he and his colleagues should be taking these issues seriously. I hope that the Minister will bear that in mind when he responds to the debate later. I do not propose Maria Eagle: Does my hon. Friend agree that the to say anything more beyond that, because so many chief fire officer would be in the invidious position of Members wish to contribute. not being able to meet his statutory obligations to keep the people of Merseyside safe? John Hemming: May I put it on the record that my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt) is Bill Esterson: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of equally concerned about this matter, but she cannot course the question that arises for the Minister is exactly make it to this debate? The fact that she is not here how does he define what the statutory obligations are today does not mean that she is not concerned. for the metropolitan authorities, such as Merseyside. What level of service does he deem to be necessary to Ian Austin: That is a great point. I am really pleased protect the people of Merseyside and the other metropolitan that I took that intervention! As I was saying, I will areas? draw my remarks to a close, but I very much hope that the Minister will respond to all the points made during In the Minister’s written answer to my parliamentary the debate. question, which I received only this week, he said: “It is for elected members of each authority to determine such 9.55 am matters, acting on the professional advice of their principal officers and following full consultation with the local community.”— Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): It is a pleasure [Official Report, 5 March 2012; Vol. 541, c. 485W.] to take part in this debate, and I congratulate my hon. May I tell him that the professional advice of the chief Friend the Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin fire officer of Merseyside and his colleagues is that it is Qureshi) on securing it. not possible for them to maintain the current service on I want to talk about the impact on Merseyside of cuts the funding settlement that the chief officer has already that are running at twice the national average—up to received, and it will be even more impossible for them to 12% over two years. As colleagues have said, Merseyside protect the community that they serve given the proposed already has a highly efficient service. My question to the future cuts? In addition, I can tell the Minister that the Minister is how on earth does it make sense to make local community do not accept that these cuts should be cuts at double the national average in Merseyside, made at all. In fact, they say that none of the cuts West Midlands, South Yorkshire, Tyne and Wear, should be happening and that they want to be protected Nottinghamshire, Cleveland, Cambridgeshire and by the fire service. However, they are also aware that, Shropshire, with Greater Manchester only a fraction with cuts of this nature, it is impossible for the chief fire below the figure of those other mainly metropolitan officer to maintain the level of service that is needed. 279WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 280WH

Mr Watts: Does my hon. Friend agree that, given and I hope that the man responsible for that song—the what the chief fire officer of Merseyside has said about great Gerry Marsden—soon recovers from the bout of the inability to do his job, it is incumbent on the pneumonia that he is currently suffering from. Minister now to stop and freeze the changes in the Merseyside fire and rescue service does not just put system and to get his own officials to talk directly to the out fires; its officers also save lives on our roads and in fire officers who have been affected by the cuts, so that our factories and offices, and they protect people using we can maintain public safety and protect lives in our the River Mersey. That is why I greatly fear what this areas? Government have done to the service to date, as well as what they have in store for it. I sincerely hope that the Bill Esterson: That is exactly right, and the Minister dangers that the Government’s decisions will bring to should be doing exactly what my hon. Friend suggests: me, my family, my property, my constituents and every listening to the chief fire officers, taking on board their single person who lives in, works in or visits the Liverpool concerns, considering what service is actually needed in city region are never realised. each metropolitan authority and ensuring that that service can be supported by the funding that he provides. Mr George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): My hon. Otherwise, we run huge risks. Friend is talking about the dangers that people are We have already heard about the inability of the fire confronted with. Does he agree that there are a lot of services to continue preventive work, such as fitting volatile industrial processes around the Liverpool city smoke detectors, which saves many lives and has reduced region and in neighbouring regions, and that these cuts the number of deaths in homes over a number of years. will make incidents such as occurred in the Sonae If that work does not continue, there is a grave risk that factory in my constituency even more difficult to deal that very welcome reduction—a move in the right with, if they mean that the fire service does not have the direction—will be reversed, with all the danger that is resources to meet all those challenges? implied. Of course, the fire services not only carry out preventive work; they also have the ability to respond to Steve Rotheram: Absolutely. My right hon. Friend is call-outs. It will take only one major incident in any of on record expressing his concerns about that particular the metropolitan authorities to show the folly of these factory. I must declare an interest—my brother works cuts. there, so if my right hon. Friend does close the factory As a number of Members want to speak, I will draw down, my brother will be unemployed. But my right my remarks to a close, but I urge the Minister to look at hon. Friend is correct, in that Merseyside and Greater the impact of these cuts, which in Merseyside and many Merseyside have petrochemical industries and other other metropolitan authorities is double the national really volatile industries, which need the resilience of a average, to listen to what my hon. Friend the Member well-funded and well-staffed fire and rescue service. for St Helens North (Mr Watts) has said and to go back As we have already heard, it cannot be right for the to the drawing board and reinstate the funding, so that six metropolitan areas outside London to shoulder 60% the fire services can protect the communities that we of the total reductions burden, with Merseyside being represent. disproportionately affected; some may even say that it is being deliberately targeted. The disproportionate effect 10.2 am on Merseyside is especially true when we compare the areas that have had grant cuts with the areas that have Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): Thank had grant increases. For instance, while Merseyside has you, Mr Williams, for calling me to speak. It is a received a grant cut that is more than the national pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning. average in both of the last two years, Hampshire, Sussex, First, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Shropshire, Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire—otherwise Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) on securing this known as “Tory heartlands”—have each received grant debate. I also want to mention the constructive way that increases. Whether that is just a coincidence is for the debate has been conducted until now. I hope that others to decide, but put simply the formula is flawed the tone that I will strike will not be too different from and unfair. that of others who have spoken, but it is important that I place on record the feelings of people from across Mr Watts: My hon. Friend points out that many Merseyside. people in our metropolitan areas feel as if this Government Before I do so, however, I think that right hon. and are targeting them, not only because of the fire service hon. Members from all parties will join me in praising cuts but because those cuts come on top of the police some of society’s bravest men and women, who work as and council cuts. With these cuts, the biggest share of firefighters in all four corners of the country. Firefighters the pain is being borne by the least able in the metropolitan do the most difficult of jobs in the most difficult of authority areas, and those people wonder why the Minister circumstances; they are never questioning but always is taking this unfair view of the metropolitan areas’ relentless. There is no greater exemplar of that fine problems. It is up to the Minister to address that feeling. tradition than the Merseyside fire and rescue service. Those people are asking, “Why is this Government We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to Britain’s firefighters targeting, once again, the poorest areas in Britain?” and long may that continue. Today I speak not only as the MP for Liverpool, Steve Rotheram: Of course my hon. Friend is right. Walton, but as a son, brother, husband, father, motorist, With regard to what has happened on Merseyside—I home owner, property owner and frequent user of public can speak for Merseyside in particular—we have had transport in and around our great city of Liverpool, the largest and deepest cut to our grant settlement from including our world famous “Ferry Across the Mersey”, Government. That has been a cut to our police grant, 281WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 282WH

[Steve Rotheram] the people in the fire and rescue service who go out and put their lives at risk every single day. For the good of fire grant and just about every other supporting grant the people of Merseyside, for the good of their safety that we received from Government. We have seen the and for the good of common sense, I urge the Minister largest and deepest cuts. Again, I ask, “Is that a to please stop this uncertainty. All we want is for the coincidence?” As I said before, it is for others to decide, Minister to do as he said he would: make cuts that are but I would say that it is a strategic decision to balance fair. I want him to reassure me and the families in my the economy on the backs of the poorest. constituency that response times will not double from In 2011-12, Merseyside’s grant cut was almost twice five minutes to 10 because of reduced capacity. the national average and for 2012-2013 Merseyside’s We have come to expect a certain level of arrogance grant cut will be more than three times the national from the Prime Minister, but this Minister knows all too average. That means that our total grant has been cut by well the dangers of a complacent approach to the fire £9 million in the first two years of this disastrous and and rescue service and the impact that the cuts will have desperately unfair period covering the comprehensive on operational preparedness, national resilience and spending review. I believe that that is dangerous; the our communities’ safety. It is time to get real and stop Minister knows that it is dangerous; the Prime Minister gambling with the safety of Merseysiders. knows that it is dangerous; and the people of Merseyside know that it is dangerous. There is grave uncertainty Several hon. Members rose— around the Merseyside fire and rescue service, as we wait for the Government to announce the grant figures for the third and fourth years of the CSR period. Hywel Williams (in the Chair): Order. I intend to start the wind-ups at 10.40 am. There are currently seven Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): It is not just the Members indicating that they wish to speak, six of metropolitan areas that are being affected. I realise that whom have written. Please be brief. this debate is about those areas, but these cuts also impact on other fire and rescue services, including the 10.12 am Northumberland fire and rescue service. I just want to put something into context. All my hon. Friends and Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): I the hon. Members who have spoken have described the congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton cuts in percentage terms, and in percentage terms they South East (Yasmin Qureshi) on securing this debate. I are absolutely horrendous. But can we just put the cuts also congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for in terms of the cost to human beings? Until now—that Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), who has done so is, in 2010 and 2011—there have been 1,000 job losses in much to co-ordinate the concerns of Members of the metropolitan areas’ fire services and it is estimated Parliament and fire and rescue authorities in metropolitan that there will be an additional loss of 2,000 front-line areas. posts, 50 fire stations and 100 fire appliances if these The truth is that in good times and bad, there will cuts go ahead. What message does that give to the always be a row about grant redistribution. Leaving firefighters—those brave men and women who run towards aside the political inclinations of any particular fires when everybody else is trying to run away from Government, there is a balance to be struck between the them—and to the general public? sparsity of rural areas and the disadvantages and high risks of urban areas. In more than 30 years’ involvement Steve Rotheram: My hon. Friend has asked a question, in council and parliamentary politics, I have never seen which I will answer in relation to human beings. Our such a grotesque distortion of grant allocation to fire and rescue service on Merseyside is contemplating metropolitan areas. losing 150 firefighter posts, potentially through compulsory The six metropolitan areas serve a quarter of the redundancies. That has never happened in our local population of this country outside the capital. They authority’s history. Five fire stations are currently being carry the highest risks in terms of fires and other earmarked for closure, including the Aintree fire station, emergencies, and they make a major contribution to adjacent to my own constituency. In addition, 11 fire national resilience. Yet in the first two years of this engines will be removed from front-line response under spending period, they have been expected to make 62% the proposals. Five fire engines have already been of the overall cuts that are required. By any measure, removed—reduced from 42 to 37—as part of phase 1 of that is grossly unfair. It cannot be repeated in years 3 CSR. The cuts will reduce overall front-line operational and 4 of the spending period. capability to 26 engines, a reduction of nearly 40% since the start of CSR. I want to pay tribute to the fire and rescue authorities in this country, particularly Greater Manchester fire Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): authority, chaired by Councillor David Acton. The fire My hon. Friend has given us stark figures in relation to authority has made its concerns known to Government, the cuts that Merseyside fire and rescue service is about but it has also got on with the practical and difficult to impose. Does he agree that that is on top of losing task of making the required cuts, while doing everything more than 500 firefighters since 2002, and that the that it can to protect the front line. funding proposals will compound the very serious problem that we face? Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): Does my parliamentary neighbour accept that not only Councillor Steve Rotheram: My hon. Friend makes an important David Acton has been making that case? Before him, point, highlighting the cumulative impact of all the cuts Councillor Paul Shannon, who led the fire authority for on areas such as Merseyside. It has been debilitating for two or three years, made the exact same case to Ministers. 283WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 284WH

He has described the unfairness of the grant allocation saying in terms of ensuring that any future cuts should as scandalous and unjustifiable. He put the case very be made evenly across fire authorities. However, does he strongly to Government. agree that West Midlands fire authority has been a significant beneficiary of the damping mechanism that Paul Goggins: The hon. Gentleman has put his comments has been put in place? Will he join me in asking the on the record. I stand by my remarks about Councillor Minister to give greater clarity on how that damping David Acton. As the new chair of the authority, he has mechanism is going to be applied in future and whether taken on the task with incredible strength, at a difficult the same criteria will be applied? time, when he faces so many difficult decisions in terms of the cuts that we face. Paul Goggins: The hon. Gentleman makes an important I also want to pay tribute to Gary Keary, a constituent point. I welcome his support for the overall thrust of of mine who chairs a branch of the Fire Brigades the argument, which is for fairness in the allocation of Union in Greater Manchester. He typifies the FBU’s grants in the final two years of the spending period, approach in Greater Manchester. It has campaigned which we have not seen in the first two years. I encourage against the cuts and made the public aware of the him and all his colleagues to discuss constructively with implications of the cuts, but it has also been prepared to the Minister the best way forward. We all hope that the work constructively with the authority and with Minister will have constructive things to say when he management to protect the public and minimise risk winds up the debate. wherever possible. The cuts made in Greater Manchester have been largely back-office and management cuts, but Hazel Blears: My right hon. Friend has referred to they have also affected the front line, which I will come the settlement as a grotesque unfairness. He has made a on to in a second. powerful case this morning. Is he aware of the Department for Communities and Local Government’s own figures John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): My that say that, in areas of deprivation where there is high right hon. Friend mentioned the FBU. To get its view unemployment, where people live alone and where there on the record, I will read a quote: are many disabled people, someone is perhaps four “The FBU is clear that these cuts will wreck the fire and rescue times more likely to be in a fire? Apart from the unfairness service. They are not being made on the basis of needs or risk. of the settlement, it is actually downright dangerous. They have decided arbitrarily to meet the government’s forced-march On its own figures, the Department ought to review, as deficit reduction target. The cuts will put the public and firefighters my right hon. Friend says, this grotesquely unfair settlement. at risk.” That is the view of FBU branch secretaries across the Paul Goggins: I am aware of the higher risk, and I am country and in metropolitan areas. glad that my right hon. Friend has placed it firmly on the record. I am clear that, if the unfair grant distribution Paul Goggins: Such views are echoed in Greater is applied in the final two years of this spending period, Manchester as well. Of course, the FBU and its members my constituency and others will lose appliances, staff have done their very best to make sure that the front line and fire stations, imposing huge risks on our constituents’ of the service is protected as far as possible and that the lives. The grant allocation must relate to risk, and must risks to the public are minimised. take account of the national requirements for resilience and responses to emergencies. In my own constituency, the front-line cuts that have had to be made, even in years 1 and 2, will make a substantial difference. In the Wythenshawe fire station, the number of staff available 24/7 will be reduced from 10.19 am nine to eight from 1 April. In Sale, in the other part of Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): I congratulate my constituency, the number of staff available 24/7 is my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton South East reducing from nine to five, and one of the two appliances (Yasmin Qureshi) on securing this vital debate. For the will no longer be available, so that is a substantial cut. people in Tyne and Wear, the issue is a real worry. The Even so, the expected response time will be measured in main work done by the fire service in our area includes seconds rather than minutes. Again, that pays tribute to covering two major trunk roads: the A19, which leads those who have made the decisions to try to protect the to two tunnels under the Tyne, and the A1. The A1 public. western bypass, which runs through my constituency, is A similar level of cuts in 2013-14 and 2014-15 would 200% above its planned capacity. It is the third most be an absolute disaster for my constituents and for the congested road in the UK. Due to the state of the road, constituents of other right hon. and hon. Members despite the fact that it is a dual carriageway, the speed here. In Greater Manchester, an equal share of the cuts limit is 50 mph along the A1 throughout my constituency. required nationally in those two years would mean cuts That is partly due to the number of road traffic accidents of £24 million. If the same distorted criteria are used in that the fire service must deal with. We have industrial 2013-14 and 2014-15, the cut required would be sites, chemical plants, gas production plants, ports, rivers, £38 million—a difference of £14 million. That would offshore installations, high-rise flats and many areas of have disastrous consequences for my constituents and deprivation, to which my right hon. Friend the Member for others. for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) referred a minute ago. James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): What do we in the Tyne and Wear area face? I have The right hon. Gentleman is making a powerful case on had discussions with Iain Bathgate, the retiring fire behalf of his constituents. As an MP in a metropolitan chief, and Councillor Bob Heron, with whom I had the borough in the west midlands, I support what he is privilege to work for 20 years as a coal miner, a job in 285WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 286WH

[Mr David Anderson] 10.24 am Mr Shaun Woodward (St Helens South and Whiston) which we knew a thing or two about the risk of fire. (Lab): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for They have told me categorically that over a four-year Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) on securing this period, Tyne and Wear fire service is facing a 35% debate. The more I listen to hon. Friends and colleagues, budget cut. To try to resolve that, they have engaged in the more I feel that it is essential to say one thing to the discussions with Ministers and the civil service. When Minister. He will have in front of him a brief prepared the fire service and elected officials have asked, “What by his civil servants. As Ministers and former Ministers, do we do?”, the response is, “Make cuts to the back we know that sometimes we are obliged to act as our office.” The fire service chief said, “Let’s pretend I can civil servants advise, but we also know that we have run a fire service without any back-office staff. If I do discretion. I say to him at the outset that I hope that that, I can save 17% of the budget, which means I am what he is hearing will lead him to go to his Secretary of halfway to where you need me to be. What can I do?” State and use his power as a Minister to say, “I think The response was, “You have to manage it,” with no we’ve got this wrong.” more information. As I listen to my hon. Friends, I have no doubt that The fire service has already been managing it. Over the present arrangements under the funding formula the past few years, more than £8 million in savings have have not only produced an inequitable position but will been made, which has included 109 front-line firefighters put lives at risk. People will die. I pray that that will not losing their jobs. Last year alone, we lost an appliance happen, but the Minister will know that if, as a result of at Birtley fire station in my town. I worry that we will the cuts next year or the year after, a number of people end up with an emergency-only service. I have no doubt in any constituency die in an out-of-control fire in a that the great men and women in the service will make it school or business, an inquiry will be demanded. The work and do their best, as all our public servants do, to inquiry will say that mistakes were made, and that the ensure that service is provided, but what will happen to fundamental mistake was that when the cuts were the community? introduced, not enough account was taken of the risks. This is a debate about community. I remind the The Minister has a chance. He has some months to Minister that his is the Department for Communities go to his Secretary of State and say, “I think we may and Local Government. I will give two examples. The have a problem with the formula we’ve been given.” It is town of Birtley in my constituency has a boxing club. It his choice. He can do so. In Merseyside, we have already was founded 30 years ago, with the support of the fire lost many firefighters. We used to have nearly 1,400; we service, the police and the schools. They realised that are now down to 880, and shortly it will be 800. The prevention was the main thing, so they set up the coming cuts will drive us down to 650. Further cuts will boxing club. Part of the remit for the young lads who be made to fire stations and to the number of engines. went to the boxing club was that they had to go to The question is whether it is safe to go further. school and perform well. The young men coming through This year, there will be no pay increase, and there will are now representing the country, but first and foremost be a 4% increase in the council tax precept. That means, they are being trained in how to behave properly, have at best, an £8.5 million cut to Merseyside. What that self-respect and self-esteem and help care for the community. means in my constituency is that we will lose one fire Likewise, Chopwell, in a more remote part of my station, almost certainly in Eccleston. Hon. Members constituency, is surrounded by some of the biggest may feel that we must all share the pain equally, but let forests in the north of England. We had a huge problem me be clear about what the pain means. In 2004, the with young people setting fires up there. The retained Merseyside fire service produced an important report in fire service in that part of the world has become the which it concluded that community centre for young people. It is a brilliant “for all property fires we intend to get the first firefighting place. Last year, it was burgled, and the community resources to the fire in 10 minutes or less”. insisted on holding a social to raise funds. The firemen One of my hon. Friends has already referred to the said, “Look, you don’t need to. We’re insured,” but they Fire Brigades Union. I ask the Minister to reread its said, “We’re having it,” because of their respect. My 2010 report, which discusses why response times matter. worry is that we will lose that link. It is a genuine public The report says that service. “in the late stages a minute or two can make the difference I say to the Minister that the D in DCLG does not between life and death”. stand for “decimate the service”. The C does not stand It also says: for “cut terms and conditions for the work force, including “If a person has survived near to a fire for nine minutes, one pensions”. The LG does not stand for “all we have to do minute later the fire could have increased in size by such an extent is let go of thousands of dedicated public servants”. that they will be killed.” The real story is that it is all part and parcel of the I will tell the Minister what it will mean if the Eccleston present Government’s drive against the public sector. It station closes. The station serves 21,000 households, is an ideological drive to get the public sector out of the many of them disproportionately old. It serves 15 primary way and let the private sector fill the gap, led by the schools, three secondary schools and two colleges. Last Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, year, the fire service attended 66 fires and 19 road traffic the Bradford bulldog, who is determined to show that collisions. I asked the chief fire officer to give me his he can cut harder than anybody else, aided and abetted assessment of how long it would take for the two by the Minister. Between them, they have become the engines from St Helens to get to parts of Rainford, in Eric and Ernie of public services. I have no doubt that the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for the Minister has a raft of jokes to throw at us, but St Helens North (Mr Watts). He said 15 minutes. That nobody is laughing in the fire service, and nobody is is five minutes more than what everybody knows is laughing in our communities. necessary to save lives. People will die. 287WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 288WH

Let us be clear. Numerous stations will close. All of There is absolutely no chance that the cuts can be made that will cause problems, but when a Minister knows without damaging the firefighting capability in Merseyside. that the consequence of what he is doing will certainly We all agree that our firefighters do an incredible job. be death, he has a huge responsibility to go to his They place themselves in dangerous situations every Secretary of State and say, “If this material from the day to protect us and save lives. We should be doing chief fire officer in Merseyside is correct—he is not a everything we can to make their job easier, not harder. politician; I simply asked him for figures—we need to We have already heard stories in Merseyside about the talk to him, sit down with the fire authority and look at fire service struggling to attend all incidents now, before the risks, because we are being told that people will die.” the second round of cuts. The Minister is a good man, and he has a choice. He With that in mind, I urge the Minister to think long can exercise his choice, accept the responsibilities of his and hard before he imposes huge cuts on fire services in office and say, “We have something wrong here, but we all metropolitan areas, including Merseyside. If he is have time to change it.” It is his choice, and I very much committed a national cut on that level, then I urge him hope that he has heard my hon. Friends’ remarks this to use the time between now and December to look at morning, because the policy will cost lives. how it could be distributed more evenly, so that metropolitan areas are not disproportionately affected, our front-line 10.29 am services can be maintained, and our public can be adequately protected. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): I will keep my remarks short, because many representations 10.33 am have been made by hon. Friends from across Merseyside Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab): I am grateful this morning. for a late opportunity to speak in this debate. I think I I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton am on the third version of my speech, and you will be South East (Yasmin Qureshi) on securing the debate, delighted to know that it is down to one page from and I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member seven. for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) for his work I would like to add my thanks to those expressed to along with other Members in campaigning on this my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton South East important issue. I, too, add my voice to those who (Yasmin Qureshi) for securing the debate and to my honour our brave firefighters, who risk their lives daily right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne to protect the British people. I will focus on two points (John Healey) for liaising and bringing the mix together, to support what some of my hon. Friends have said; I and for arranging a meeting with the Minister. am conscious of the time and I want to allow other Members to make their contributions. As the only Member from south Yorkshire in the Chamber, I would like to place on the record the financial Our fire authority in Merseyside is led by Chief Fire situation that is hitting West Yorkshire fire authority. Officer Dan Stephens. He has done much work to make For the first two years, the cut in grants equalled 11%, the cuts imposed on the fire service while protecting amounting to £13 million, under the unequal grant front-line services. That has not been easy, and tough distribution introduced by the Minister. Even with an choices have been made. Pay has been frozen for three equal distribution, the cut would have been 6.5%, or years, and back office and management have been cut £6.8 million. The difference between the two distributions and shared. We often hear from the Government about underlines the task that the Minister is pushing on the trimming the fat. Back office functions have been severely fire authorities. It indicates that the fire authorities do shaved to make them the leanest of any comparable not live in an unreal world. If they were facing equal service. Reserves in Merseyside have already been spent, cuts, there would be a different attitude, even though and innovations have been made, a list of which I will the cuts are particularly tough. share with the Minister after this debate. The council The next two years raise questions for the Minister. I tax precept has been raised, and 92 firefighters and 80 join my right hon. Friend the Member for St Helens support staff have lost their jobs. In short, everything South and Whiston (Mr Woodward) in pleading with that could be done to ensure that the fire service keeps him to speak quietly but firmly to his Secretary of State doing the vital work of saving lives has been done. about the position facing fire authorities and emergency There is absolutely no fat left to trim, and there is no services in the final two years of the spending review. If low-hanging fruit to pick. Only the bare minimum firmness and quietness do not work with the Secretary remains. Despite that, our fire service is facing even of State, and if nothing else works, the Minister should more significant cuts. point out to the Secretary of State that the second and We are waiting to hear from the Department in worst year of the spending review is the year of the December about the next round of budget reductions. election. In view of what the fire authorities are saying The best case scenario is absolutely sobering. As we to Members about the effects of the cuts, it will not be a have heard from other hon. Members, we are looking at nice position from which to fight an election. the closure of five fire stations, including Allerton fire One year of cuts is severe, but there will be two and station in my constituency. There is the prospect of even three years of cuts. What happens when it hits four 11 fire engines being scrapped and 150 firefighter posts years? There will be 13% of cuts for West Yorkshire fire being lost. It is sobering to think that that is the best authority over the next two years. If the sacrifice were case scenario. shared equally across the country, the cut would be 5%. If the second phase of cuts follows in the same vein In money terms, it would be £19.8 million over the two as the first, it is likely that the authority’s cut will be years instead of £12.8 million. The figure of £12.8 million significantly higher than the national average on which is formidable on its own, and it would be that figure that estimate is based. Some £17 million could be lost. only if there was an equality of sacrifice. 289WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 290WH

[Mr George Mudie] to the Secretary of State and say that the policy that is being pursued is unsafe and could put a lot of innocent The first set of cuts cost 170 firefighters. It caused people in serious danger. crews to be cut and cost many support services. We are speaking about grants, but they are only one part of the 10.41 am picture—the revenue part. There is the expenditure part, where even after cuts, the fire authority will have Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): It is a pleasure to look for £9.1 million in 2013-14, and £13.7 million in to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, 2014-15. That is after the authority has made what Mr Williams. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member it—not politicians—regards as cuts that will still allow for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) on securing it to look the public largely in the eye and say that safety this vital debate, and I also thank my right hon. Friend has been taken into consideration; I emphasise “largely”. the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) We are facing those sorts of budget difficulties. On top for his excellent work in bringing this topic to the fore. of the 170 firefighters in West Yorkshire who will go by It is a vital issue and it is important to debate it this the end of the second year of the spending review, 380 morning. firefighters are pencilled in to go in the next two years. I hope that the Minister has listened to the contributions made by right hon. and hon. Members from across the John McDonnell: The Fire Brigades Union regional Chamber. There is a degree of cross-party consensus secretary, Pete Smith said: and concern about the impact of the cuts, and certainly “This will reduce our ability to respond to major outdoor fires the overwhelming view in the debate—and indeed across which have damaged our moorlands and major flooding which the country—is that the cuts go too far. My right hon. has hit this region in recent years…There are times when we have Friend the Member for St Helens South and Whiston been seriously stretched even with our current resources. These (Mr Woodward) got to the nub of the issue when he cuts risk tipping us over the edge and that will have a very serious pointed out that the cuts could result in people losing impact on the public.” their lives, and that that could result in a public inquiry. That, from the front line, reflects exactly what my hon. Can the Minister put his hand on his heart and say that Friend is saying. he would be in a robust position to defend the Government’s stance if such a tragedy were to occur and were followed Mr Mudie: I welcome my hon. Friend’s intervention. up by a public inquiry? I have been critical of the present cuts. I have questioned The metropolitan fire authorities make the greatest the fire chief seriously and challenged him regarding contribution to national resilience in our country. To the safety of my constituents. We have a lot of back-to-back undermine that resilience in such a way is regrettable, houses. The chief is closing the fire station in the area, and the Government should think carefully before they and I worry about the safety of our constituents, in proceed. As today’s contributions to the debate have terms of the time that vehicles need to get to a fire. My made clear, the metropolitan fire authorities have been hon. Friend makes a good point: faced with the final singled out for vicious cuts. They are not the only two years of the spending review, the Minister has to services facing cuts; many fire and rescue authorities are look seriously at this issue, including an equality of confronting cuts across the country, and that will be sacrifice—my hon. Friends have already referred to the particularly true in years 3 and 4 of the spending review. strange and distorted distribution of cuts. We have seen only the start of the cuts; the worst is yet Thanks to my right hon. Friend the Member for to come. Wentworth and Dearne, I was able to meet the Minister. The Minister was pleased to secure what he felt was a I went further than my right hon. Friend, however, in concession in that the cuts to fire and rescue services saying that I did not accept the spending envelope with were back-loaded rather than front-loaded. We have which the Minister was working. The spending envelope already seen the devastating consequences of the first is acceptable only if it is the Government’s will for every two years of back-loaded cuts, but the cuts will become service to be cut by a certain amount. Because of the even greater, which paints a very worrying picture. It nature of the emergency services, provision cannot drop simply will not do for the Minister to stand up and use below a certain level without danger to the public, and the Pontius Pilate defence—I know he has also used it to say that the emergency services are the same as in written responses to right hon. and hon. Members—and libraries or other services shows a distorted set of say that it is for locally elected representatives to determine values. I challenged the Minister about the spending how they deploy their budgets. If locally elected envelope, and urged him, as the person who would be representatives do not have the money in the first place responsible for the consequences of any serious fires to allow them to deploy their budgets and meet their due to the cuts, to go to the Secretary of State and spell statutory responsibilities, it will not do for the Minister out the dangerous position that we are in. to say that it is a matter for local areas. At the meeting, the Minister agreed that his officers Having looked at the figures, it is clear that the areas would meet representatives of the metropolitan fire with highest demand will be hit the hardest by the per authorities to go through the details and see whether capita funding cuts, and it is incumbent on the Minister they could accept any of the points that have been to explain a funding formula that has such perverse made. Let me say quietly to the Minister that I hope he outcomes. For the record, I will go through some of the will take that seriously, and that it results in a changed figures. In Greater Manchester, there are 8.74 incidents distribution of cuts to deal with some of the problems per 1,000 people, yet there will be a per capita cut of faced by the metropolitan fire authorities. In view of the 82p; in Merseyside, 10.87 incidents per 1,000 of the serious points raised in this debate by representatives of population, and a per capita cut of £1.05; in South big metropolitan areas, I hope that the Minister will go Yorkshire, 8.56 incidents per 1,000 people, and an 85p 291WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 292WH per capita cut; in Tyne and Wear, 9.70 incidents per I have been the leader of a fire authority. I have had to 1,000 people, and a 99p per capita cut; in the West wrestle with the difficulties of balancing a budget. Midlands 8.03 incidents per 1,000 people and a 94p per Throughout those years, I have met firefighters in stations. capita cut; and in West Yorkshire 7.89 incidents per I have dealt with the fire unions regularly. 1,000 people and a 32p per capita reduction. That cannot be justified in any parlance, and the Mr George Howarth rose— Minister must try to explain how he can defend such cuts. We know that the cuts have already led to thousands Robert Neill: I will not give way very much, I am of firefighters losing their jobs across the country, and afraid, because I want to answer some of the points that that fire stations are closing. We know that appliances have been made. With respect to the right hon. Gentleman, are being decommissioned as a consequence of the let us see how we get on. reductions, and that the greatest number of job losses, decommissioned fire appliances and fire station closures There is no monopoly of concern for the fire service are occurring in the areas of greatest need. in either party or personal terms. Equally, we have to Furthermore, as a consequence of the cuts, the excellent recognise that, as with all the public sector, the fire preventive work for which the fire and rescue service is service must deal with the difficult and pressing financial responsible is suffering. What a crazy situation to put situation that we inherited from the previous Government. the nation in—cuts to preventive work are having to be I make no bones about that. We must therefore deal made as a result of the reductions in funding from with difficult financial circumstances in a sensible fashion. central Government. We will see more incidents of There is no point in denying the need to reduce the arson and the other problems that the fire and rescue deficit, and I do not think that most responsible people service is called on to deal with, such as young people on any side do. It is not helpful to use the rather engaging in antisocial behaviour. The fire and rescue selective quotations that we have just heard or highly service does excellent work with young people, for example coloured scenarios. There are difficulties, which are in the youth engagement schemes that take place around being addressed by fire services through hard work, and the country. I recognise that. It is equally important, however, to provide the full context, which may not have been It is clear that the Minister’s cuts are arbitrary and picked up fully in the debate. are wrecking our fire and rescue service. The metropolitan fire and rescue services are bearing the biggest burden. First, it is right, as has been observed, that back-loading The cuts are putting firefighters’lives at risk and endangering is recognising the position of the fire service as an the public. There will be increased casualties, and more emergency service. It is worth noting that the reductions properties will be lost as a consequence of the cuts to applied to fire and rescue authorities have been less the fire services. That is not just scaremongering. I than those applied to local authorities in general. No quote the author of “Fire Futures: Role of the Fire and one likes to have to make reductions, but the inheritance Rescue Service (Delivery Models) Report,” which was is such that it cannot be avoided. commissioned by the Minister and said that Secondly, it is important to realise that the much “these funding reductions will imperil their ability”— criticised formula is—I say it bluntly—essentially the formula that this Government inherited from Opposition the ability of fire and rescue services— Members when they were in government. It is a bit rich “to carry out risk-based budgeting and implement their local to hear criticisms of illogicality from hon. Members Integrated Risk Management Plans…let alone play an effective who were effectively the authors of the system—a system part in the National Framework. When all the frills have been removed, every spare ounce of fat burned off, and every possible that the Government are proposing, in the coalition efficiency saving identified and implemented, there will remain agreement, to change. Let me spell that out a little more only real cuts to the core service and a real increase in casualties clearly. and property loss.” That is a damning indictment of the Government’s Mr Brady: Will my hon. Friend the Minister give direction of travel in relation to fire and rescue services. way? I hope, having listened to the passionate speeches from right hon. and hon. Members who have great Robert Neill: May I make a little progress? I want to experience on this issue, that the Minister will consider get this on the record, and then my hon. Friend will what he has heard today, talk to his colleagues, think understand why. again, change course and reduce these cuts. The nation is relying on him. It is important to recognise that, under the current system, the metropolitan authorities none the less receive far more protection from the damping system than any 10.50 am other type of authority. The Government took the view, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for despite arguments from some quarters to the contrary, Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): It is that it was right to maintain the damping position. That a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Williams. has protected the metropolitan authorities more than I congratulate the hon. Member for Bolton South East anyone else. For example, West Midlands fire and rescue (Yasmin Qureshi) on securing the debate and all the authority benefits from damping to the tune of £8.5 million right hon. and hon. Members who have spoken. The in 2011-13. Overall, there is approximately a £26 million hon. Lady is of course right to pay tribute to the benefit to metropolitan fire authorities from floor damping firefighters in her constituency and in green watch and protection in 2011-13. to many others across the country. I have been involved in the fire service, one way or another, for 35 years. Steve Rotheram: rose— 293WH Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas)7 MARCH 2012 Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) 294WH

Robert Neill: I am going to make these points before I John Healey: I thank the Minister for giving way. I start giving way to anyone. thank him for his willingness to meet us and for charging That is more money than they would otherwise have his officials to work with those from the metropolitan had. The Government maintain that protection. Non- authorities to get to the bottom of the situation and to metropolitan areas contribute towards that protection. consider the future. Does he recognise that there is cross-party and cross-area concern? Does he recognise It is also worth bearing in mind that the Government that that concern is not about the first two years of the changed an element of the formula that we inherited to spending review; it is about years 3 and 4? The six fire increase the relative needs weighting, which operates to chiefs, uniquely, have to come together to ensure that the benefit of metropolitan authorities, because it reflects any cuts that need to be made are made evenly and more of the needs that arise in urban areas. It targets equitably across all authorities in England. resources on those authorities that are more dependent on central ground. It is not right to suggest that the Robert Neill: I will make sure that those meetings Government have sought to target metropolitan areas. take place. The right hon. Gentleman knows that we are The operation of the formula is, I think, potentially now moving to a new system. flawed, which is why the Government, through the Localism Act 2011 and the Local Government Finance Bill, are moving away from the crude system of formula James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): grant to assist in a business rate retention that will Will the Minister give way? enable us to treat authorities fairly. Robert Neill: I am sorry to disappoint my hon. Friend, but I want to get this point on the record, along with Mr Brady rose— other important points that need to be made for the sake of balance. Robert Neill: I will give way, once, to my hon. Friend. I assure the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne that when we design the new system, we wish to Mr Brady: I am grateful to my hon. Friend the ensure that there is fairness. That is why, in setting the Minister. As a fellow Conservative Member who represents baseline under the new system, the risks element will be a metropolitan constituency, I would not expect him to taken into account. We have decided that, under the be biased against metropolitan constituencies. Most of new system, fire and rescue authorities will be designated us have engaged in this debate—not just today, but as top-up authorities, so that they will have the confidence before—in a very constructive way, and so has the of having a significant proportion of their funding Minister. Whatever the origin of the formula, I hope protected and will not be subject to volatility by business that he will accept that its implementation is resulting in rate growth. They will have that protection, plus the particularly harsh cuts in metropolitan areas. I hope protection of uprating annually by the retail prices that he will give serious consideration to whether a index. more equitable arrangement can be found to spread the cuts more fairly around the country. Mr Watts rose—

Robert Neill: I understand my hon. Friend, but it is Robert Neill: I am not giving way to the hon. Gentleman. right to say that, in 2012-13, formula grant average per We are seeking to deal with those measures and will head in metropolitan fire and rescue services is £26, as continue to work with authorities across the sector. against £19 per head in non-metropolitan areas. We should not think that there are no pressures and fire It is also important to put on the record that other risks in non-metropolitan areas. funding streams are relevant to the fire service. Funding for the national resilience element is outside the formula Mr Woodward rose— grant. That has been referred to on a number of occasions. It is important to bear in mind that the funding for new dimension equipment, for example, increased in 2011-12 John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab) rose— from 2010-11. The total metropolitan authority funding for new dimensions is £8 million. There are also specific Mr Watts rose— grants in relation to urban search and rescue, high-volume pumps and so on. We maintain our stance that that will Robert Neill: I want to finish this point before I give be treated as a new burden issue should more be required. way, if hon. Members will forgive me. Capital grant funding for metropolitan authorities It is important to recognise that there are concerns. has been significantly increased. In Greater Manchester, That is why, after the meeting organised by the right the increase is 82%. Metropolitan fire authorities will hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), benefit from £25 million capital funding, so it is not I indicated that my officials would be happy to meet entirely accurate to talk solely about the formula grant. officials from the fire authorities. I assure him that that The Government are making other resources available is still the case. I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman, to local authorities and fire and rescue authorities in because of his action on this matter and because he has particular to assist them with the need for service not yet spoken. reconfiguration. 295WH 7 MARCH 2012 DVLA Closures (Scotland) 296WH

DVLA Closures (Scotland) I am happy that the DVLA have made significant progress in this area. I have re-registered my car simply online: it works wells and I am pleased about that. 11 am Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab): I am grateful Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): There are DVLA for having secured this debate. offices in Coleraine, Londonderry and Ballymena. Going The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency is an important online also jeopardises those jobs. Does the hon. Gentleman organisation in respect of the service it provides to agree that going online is not necessarily the best way to motorists and the £5.7 billion a year that it raises for the save those jobs? Treasury. I shall focus on the problems arising from the DVLA’s proposals to close 39 of its local offices, particularly Mr Doran: The jobs have not really been considered those in Scotland, because there is a Scottish angle that in the consultation document. I understand that 1,200 jobs I am anxious to discuss with the Minister. are at risk and some of those—200 or 300—will be moved to Swansea, if people are prepared to move. The I shall focus on my local office. The office in my hon. Gentleman is right. Despite the progress made by constituency is particularly busy, as are most of the the DVLA in going online and its digital technology, I offices throughout the country. Some 2.4 million people understand that there is a huge gap in the technology. a year use their local DVLA office. The figures show The trade unions’ assessment is that it will take at least that between 80,000 and 90,000 people a year use the four or five years to fill that gap. That will add to the Aberdeen office. In the past three years, there have been problem. more than 250,000 transactions involving individuals using their local DVLA office for various purposes. The other route being offered to customers is the Some 79 services are provided by DVLA at local offices. post. We are talking about 2.4 million new transactions shifting from local offices to the centre in Swansea. A On examination, the figures are stark. For example, pilot test run a year or two ago, looking at postal Aberdeen has one of the highest rates of use of personal loss—envelopes that go missing between the DVLA number plates, or cherished number plates to use the and its customers—showed that some 0.9% of post was DVLA term—about 18,000 in the past three years. lost. That does not sound like a lot and I am told that People might expect nothing less from an area that is the DVLA has got that figure down to 0.5%, but with fairly rich in oil and gas money. the number of transactions that will transfer to Swansea The proposal is to transfer all the functions of the the potential loss is huge: almost 120,000 of 2.4 million 39 offices to Swansea, which is the main headquarters letters will potentially be lost. of the DVLA. The consultation document by the DVLA I have calculated that, if everyone in my area used and the Department for Transport is one of the weakest the post—clearly they will not; this is just for illustration— that I have seen: we are getting motherhood and apple over the past three years we would have lost 1,250 pie and heading for sunny uplands, but there is little— communications. Given that many of these communications virtually nothing—about the 1,200 jobs that will be lost will contain identification documents, such as passports, in this process and little risk assessment of the financial that is a serious problem. I should like the Minister to analysis. We are not even told how much the Department comment on that. expects to save in this operation. In addition to all that, there is no impact assessment and no consideration of We are given three potential ways forward and there what the consumer—the customer—is likely to face. is a serious problem with each of them. More important, from my point of view as a former practising solicitor, Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): The Edinburgh are the legal consequences of another aspect of the local office, which is not in my constituency, although I DVLA’s work. The key responsibility in the local areas have constituency work there—it is in the constituency is enforcement. of the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart)—provides a service for the motor trade, which Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD): I am sure it finds valuable because it enables it to carry on its that the hon. Gentleman agrees that a key danger of the business swiftly and efficiently with people with whom reorganisation is the potential effect on evasion of vehicle it has built up a relationship. Does my hon. Friend excise. I am also sure that he is already aware that if agree that the loss of that service is a loss to those evasion rose by only 0.5% it would wipe out all the businesses? savings of this reorganisation.

Mr Doran: Indeed, it is. Motor dealers who have sold Mr Doran: The hon. Gentleman is right. The 2004 a car want it to be registered as quickly as possible. figures, which are the most recent that I have managed Registration is one of the largest components of the to get hold of, show that evasion of vehicle excise duty work of the office in my constituency. A significant was about 5%. That is a significant figure. Every percentage number of objections or letters of complaint from the point costs the DVLA £57 million. Even a small increase, motor trade have been sent to the DVLA as part of the say 0.5% or 1%, would mean that the £28 million in consultation. The motor trade will be damaged substantially savings expected from the closure process will be wiped by the local closures. out. It is not unrealistic to say that through this process, Another option is to replace the local offices with the we are heading, particularly in Scotland, towards the Post Office. I have no objection to business going to the serious possibility that evasion of vehicle excise duty Post Office—we all want our local post offices to improve will increase. their businesses—but no one in that organisation can In the system at the moment there is an enforcement provide the technical help and support that the local office in each region. In Scotland, that office is in DVLA offices provide. The other option is to go online. Glasgow. Around the country, vehicles go out on our 297WH DVLA Closures (Scotland)7 MARCH 2012 DVLA Closures (Scotland) 298WH

[Mr Doran] significant rise in tax evasion would be at significant cost to the Treasury. At this stage, with the lack of streets patrolling with number-recognition equipment, information from the consultation process, it is difficult tallying what they find with DVLA records to pick up to see anything positive. I have a simple question for the vehicles on which the vehicle excise duty has not been Minister: what is the point? paid. It is quite a sophisticated operation. I am told that responsibility for vehicles is to be 11.14 am removed from the local office, but Scotland has a particular The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport legal issue. In England and Wales, and perhaps in (Mike Penning): It is a pleasure to be working under Northern Ireland, the DVLA is the prosecuting authority, your chairmanship this morning, Mr Williams, and I but in Scotland everything operates through the procurator congratulate the hon. Member for Aberdeen North fiscal, who has to operate within the confines of Scots (Mr Doran) on securing the debate. If I were in his law, which involves corroboration of every piece of position, I would be in his seat, and he would probably evidence presented to the court. be in mine. In my local area, there are between 200 and 300 The changes that we are proposing and that were contested cases a year, because someone either pleads subject to consultation are not only about money. The not guilty or ignores a summons from the court. That service offered by the DVLA to the British public is needs evidence, which at the moment is provided by an quite different from any offered by most other agencies: officer from Glasgow travelling to the local sheriff court, apart from the collection of vehicle excise duty revenue which could be just around the corner in the Glasgow that we do on behalf of Her Majesty’s Treasury, the sheriff court or in Orkney, Shetland or Western Isles. service is paid for by the people who use it. The DVLA An assessment is made in each case—basically, a cost-benefit has to be self-sufficient in how it operates. At the assessment: what is the cost of sending an officer to moment, the types of service that we offer to the public Shetland or Aberdeen and what are we likely to get in in offices around the country could clearly be done the way of a fine? If the costs outweigh the likely fine, a more professionally, efficiently and helpfully, and at a case will probably not be proceeded with, so people are cost that could help the taxpayer as well. The hon. already getting away with refusing or failing to pay their Gentleman rightly referred to the 2.4 million people vehicle excise duty. who use the offices each year, but that equates to less If the same cost-benefit analysis is done in the Swansea than 6% of DVLA transactions, although they take up office, sending someone from Swansea to Shetland or almost 25% of DVLA staffing levels. I shall leave others even Aberdeen becomes a major operation. There are to do the mathematics, but if we can operate more major cost factors, including overnight stays, which are cost-effectively, that is what Governments should do. unlikely at the moment. The cost will rise, and will we Many services are offered at different offices around also see a rise in evasion of vehicle excise duty? If we do, the country, and the hon. Gentleman rightly alluded to what assessment has been made of the cost? Where is the profitable business of cherished or personalised the financial analysis to show us what the new system number plates—whatever we want to call them—but might mean for evasion, in particular if we continue to the system is quite archaic. Someone has to prove the provide evidence that must be from a witness, on which MOT for the vehicle from which the plate is being there is no option in the Scottish courts? What is the transferred, even though the transfer has been approved analysis? It strikes me that we will be opening the gates by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency: the vehicle to people who might be prone to think that they can get has to be brought to the test centre and the process gone away with evading their vehicle excise duty, and that through. We want to speed that process up—we want undermines the whole system. more cherished number plates in Aberdeen. If there is Among the problems to be considered, I have mentioned money in Aberdeen to buy cherished number plates, the the consultation document, which is flabby and weak in DVLA wants that money, because it helps to balance every respect—I am concerned about it, because there is the books in the country. At the moment, there is a a host of areas where we do not have answers, some of disincentive because the measures are complicated, which which I have outlined. There has been no consideration anyone who goes through the process will realise. We of the huge rise in inconvenience to the public who use want to simplify it as much as possible. the local centres in significant numbers. The evidence is Throughout Government, we want to use digital available: 2.4 million people a year will be inconvenienced, portals much more efficiently. Some 50% of all DVLA many of them businesses, some large, some small. The transactions now go through the digital portal, with consultation report tells us that some such businesses people sitting at home or at their local library. That already use the online system but, from my contacts in service continues to be rolled out across the country. On the motor trade, they are more interested in completing non-payment of VED, I am pleased that the latest their licence or registration on the same day, rather than figures are much better, and less than 1% is lost—in waiting several days, perhaps longer, for the material to other words, people not paying are less than 1%. A lot come back from Swansea. of hard work has been done in the regional offices and Also, from experience of such significant changes the Swansea central office, but much of the success is to and reorganisations, the first two or three years are do with automatic number plate recognition. Modern likely to be chaotic as the system beds down. I have ANPR cameras are ridiculously accurate—I hope people commented on the loss of documents, in particular are listening to the debate—and, as we have rolled out passports, which are valuable in themselves but are lost ANPR through the police and through our camera at huge inconvenience to the individual passport holder technology, we have picked up more and more people. and with a possibly large profit for any criminal into More individuals are being made aware that they are whose hands the passport might fall. The potentially likely to be caught and prosecuted, which is why we 299WH DVLA Closures (Scotland)7 MARCH 2012 DVLA Closures (Scotland) 300WH have that level of less than 1% at the moment. There is that. There may be an Adjournment debate on the no way in the world that I would be standing in the subject, but I thought I should raise the matter. We Chamber to condone any process likely to let that figure must deliver a much better service for the Province of get worse. Most prosecutions are done through Swansea—I Northern Ireland. In Scotland, as the hon. Member for shall come on to the Scottish issues in a second, which Aberdeen North rightly said, the procurator fiscal is the are different, I accept, but we have taken them into prosecutor, but we do not intend to have everyone consideration. sitting in Swansea and then taking lovely journeys to Shetland and the Western Isles. Mr Doran: A lot of the improvement in the capture of defaulters is because of the number of patrolling recognition Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) vehicles, but my understanding, certainly in Scotland, is (SNP): Hear, hear. that they are being removed. Are they being removed throughout the country? What impact assessment has Mike Penning: The hon. Gentleman agrees that it is a been made of the effect of that on defaults? lovely journey. I have been to Shetland and the Western Isles, and I agree, but it takes a while and requires an Mike Penning: There is a roll-out, not a roll-in, to use overnight stay. probably perverse language—more and more vehicles We will work with the procurator fiscal. I am not a are going out. I will not tell the country where they are lawyer, but this place is full of lawyers, and we will and where they will be, because I want to catch and ensure that case notes are available with the evidential prosecute people. base for prosecution. I want the number of prosecutions If any hon. colleagues have not been out on patrol to rise, not fall. If anyone in Shetland and the Western with their local police with ANPR in the vehicle, I urge Isles believes that they will not be prosecuted because of them to do so. They should contact their local constabulary the cost analysis, they are wrong. We will be able to roll and go out with them, because it will be an eye-opening out prosecutions on a level playing field throughout the experience for them. They can then explain to their country. I fully accept that at the moment that is not the constituents just how advanced the technology is. I sat case. I apologise to those who live at the extremities of in a police car on the side of an A road in Milton this great nation of ours, but we will ensure that whether Keynes recently, but as the vehicles went past an alarm people live in London or Shetland, they will be prosecuted went off in the car if they did not have any insurance or if they break the law. MOT, and we knew who the vehicle was registered to. The consultation is genuine, as is any consultation I ANPR is very accurate. As we have rolled out continuous introduce. I remember standing here and speaking about insurance— a completely different consultation and saying that it was not a closed deal. Matters that were not in the Mr Doran: Will the Minister give way? consultation will arise. Some 400 colleagues and others have contributed to the consultation, which closes on Mike Penning: I urge the hon. Gentleman to bear 20 March. We will consider all submissions, whether or with me, because I want to make a little progress. I am not they were detailed in the consultation. conscious that, otherwise, Mr Williams will shut me up The issue is categorically not just about saving money, before I have had an opportunity to address the issues although there will be savings. It is my responsibility, that he raised. and the responsibility of the chief executive of the I fully accept that there is some concern in the motor DVLA, to ensure that we provide a service to the public industry, but it is split. I regularly meet the industry’s that is as cost-efficient and as accessible as possible. representative bodies, and I have met representatives of There is demand for a more digital service, and for it to the motor trade in my constituency.What we are proposing be provided through the excellent post office network, will be more efficient. It will not be a case of putting which we have all defended in this Chamber over the documents in the post and losing blank tax discs. We years. will use a secure system, and speed will be subject to a It is imperative that at the end of the consultation we contract. Delivery will be the following day, and it may ensure that all the issues are considered. If the plans go sometimes be possible to offer same-day delivery. ahead, we will ensure that, wherever possible, staff will Most of the complaints that I have heard from colleagues be transferred to other departments if that is what they have come from people at local offices, who believe that want. If there are redundancies, we will ensure that we they may lose their job. I fully understand their concerns, handle them correctly, and if retraining is required, it but the necessary efficiencies will mean that the risk to will be provided. Only the other day, I met a group of the motor trade of holding whole books of blank tax DVLA workers who were worried because they had discs in their showrooms will be removed. At the moment, never filled in a CV or applied for a job. Assistance will showrooms receive them in blocks, and are responsible be given to everyone who applies for a new job in a for those blocks, which they may return if they do not Government agency or Department, or who are leaving use them. That is not efficient for them or for us, and we DVLA. That is a moral responsibility, as well as a legal intend to roll out a more efficient way. one. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right in saying that We must ensure that the cost base is delivered correctly the system in England and Wales is different from the and that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh system in Scotland. The system in Northern Ireland, as West (Mike Crockart) said, we do not lose the benefit of the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) knows, the current level of non-payment, which is 1%. I cannot is completely archaic, and no electronic portals can be claim full responsibility for that, because I have been in used because the database is not compatible with the the job for only 21 months, and the figures cover three database in Swansea, so we must do something about years, so the previous Government must have been 301WH DVLA Closures (Scotland) 7 MARCH 2012 302WH

[Mike Penning] Veterans (Mental Health) doing something right to achieve that figure. Some of [JIM DOBBIN in the Chair] that excellent work is done in local offices but—I hate to say this—most of it is being done through technology 2.30 pm and at Swansea. Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): Given the nature There will be more than 300 new jobs at Swansea. of this afternoon’s debate, I should like to pay tribute to That does not equate with the 1,200 jobs at risk around the soldiers missing and believed killed in Afghanistan. the country, but some of those new jobs may be taken Our thoughts and prayers are with their families at what up by existing DVLA staff if they wish to relocate, must be an incredibly difficult time. although I fully understand that relocating from Aberdeen to Swansea would be extremely difficult. That is why we It is always a privilege to serve under your chairmanship, will offer redundancy packages if necessary. Mr Dobbin, and indeed to initiate a debate in this Chamber. I feel, however, an even greater sense of My job is to ensure that we deliver the best possible privilege due to the special nature of this debate. Like service for the public, who are telling us that they want a many Members on both sides of the House, I am a great more digital system. I accept that some businesses are supporter of our armed forces family. From serving saying one thing, and others are saying another, but as personnel to veterans, those brave men and women have long as we can ensure that we deliver the service to the served our country with dedication, and they deserve motor trade professionally and without much of the admiration, respect and parliamentary attention. risk, I think they will be happy, and they have mostly indicated that they will be. I should like to discuss veterans’ mental health, which is one of the few subjects that quite rightly commands We want to sell many more cherished numbers, political unity on both sides. The work of successive particularly in parts of Scotland where there are affluent Governments over recent years has given the issue great people who want to use their disposable income in such momentum, and early in the debate I should like to a way. We must make it simpler for them to do so, and commend the previous Government on the work that end the present bureaucratic and archaic system. they did on behalf of veterans. I also congratulate the Minister on the way that the current Government have 11.26 am championed this worthy issue. Sitting suspended. My interest in the mental health of veterans comes from my frequent correspondence and discussions with one of my constituents who is the mother of a veteran. Her dedication to improving the provision and information provided to veterans is inspiring, and I hope that she will take heart from today’s debate. In recent years, efforts to tackle the cruel stigma that is related to mental health issues more generally across society have begun to make a difference to many of those who suffer from what is often an invisible illness. Indeed, it has been estimated that one in four people in the country suffer from some form of mental health issue each year. The Mental Health Network, which is part of the NHS Confederation, has carried out excellent work, and over the past few years, it has been heartening to see the Ministry of Defence and the Department of Health working closely with the Royal British Legion, Combat Stress and others in the voluntary sector to provide a range of improved services for veterans who suffer from mental health problems. Let me take the opportunity to praise the work of all charities up and down the country that work day in, day out with members of our armed forces family.In particular, I should like to champion the Royal British Legion and Combat Stress—two charities that play a vital role in delivering key services to veterans and serving armed forces personnel. Together, those charities offer vast experience, unquestionable compassion and unwavering dedication. With approximately 22,000 armed forces personnel leaving the service and returning to civilian life each year, we must appreciate the wide-ranging mental health issues that can be provoked by experiences in war-torn countries and dangerous conflicts around the world. Over the past 10 years, British troops have been involved in a range of conflicts from Iraq and Afghanistan to Bosnia and Sierra Leone, and the bloody experiences 303WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 304WH of those wars cannot fail to leave a mark on those who The objective now, however, is to ensure that that wide- confront them. When we think of the sacrifices made by ranging support, financial assistance, e-learning provision armed forces personnel, it is right to consider not only and information literature continues and is focused in the often terrifying physical risks undertaken, but the the most effective way possible. mental strains that are placed on our brave servicemen I have a number of questions for the Minister to and women. which I hope he will respond, although I accept that It has been estimated that more than 27% of veterans some information might require communication with suffer from a common mental disorder. For those armed his colleagues in the Ministry of Defence. First, will forces personnel who leave the service each year having funding for the dedicated 24-hour support telephone experienced direct action in recent operations, the transition line continue after the one-year trial, which I believe is from service life to civilian life is often traumatic. For soon coming to an end? I believe that having someone many, the future is uncertain, and owing to the stigma on the end of a telephone at any hour of any day who is that surrounds mental health issues, many sufferers fail willing to listen, able to support and trained to understand to seek help on leaving the services. If they do seek help, must be of tremendous reassurance and assistance to it is often at a dangerously late stage. A Mental Health affected veterans. The continuation of funding for that Network briefing last year suggested that, on average, telephone service would indicate a clear commitment to veterans do not come forward for mental health support veterans, and I urge the Minister to push for that until 14 years after their discharge. Sadly, homelessness support to continue. and alcohol or substance abuse is more prevalent among With an eye on the future, I ask the Minister to veterans when compared with others of similar age or outline the time scales involved in implementing the social background. new veterans service to which the Government have I have three main objectives in this debate: first, to made a commitment. A key issue as we discuss the commend the superb work that has been carried out on future of such support is the difficulty of keeping in behalf of veterans who have suffered from mental health touch with veterans. As discussed earlier, many leave problems in recent years; secondly, to seek assurances the service and move on to temporary accommodation about the continuation of parliamentary support for or work. It is impossible to provide meaningful support such work to be maintained on a more permanent if we do not know where veterans now live or work. basis; and thirdly, to ensure that our provision for Will the Government do more to track and store veterans is coherently delivered in the best possible information about veterans, and will that information manner. be shared with key partners? The previous Government’s “New Horizons” strategy document bound the NHS and the MOD to improve Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): I congratulate access and support for the early treatment and prevention my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Does he agree of mental health illness among servicemen and veterans. that there is a particular problem with regard to the The current Government, led admirably by the Prime Territorial Army and reserve forces? Many of them are Minister, launched the military covenant, which enshrines spread out across the nation, and we do not know into law the Government’s duty to support the entire where they are. At least, regulars have the regimental armed forces family. The covenant makes a new family around them, even after they become veterans. commitment to provide People from the TA are often out in the wide world “extra support for veteran mental health needs.” without anyone to provide such support. Soon after taking office in 2010, the coalition Government asked my hon. Friend the Member for Julian Sturdy: I agree. It is also worth noting that South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) to produce a report reservists tend to suffer more from mental illness, if on veterans’ mental health. He should be congratulated they have experienced conflict, than regular soldiers, so on his truly outstanding work and recommendations, it is probably even more important that we understand and I encourage any hon. Member who has not yet read where the reservists are and can monitor that and target the report to request a copy from the Library. help towards them. My hon. Friend’s “Fighting Fit” report received favourable backing from the Government, and rightly Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): I congratulate my so because it includes a raft of measures to ensure hon. Friend on securing the debate and I support the better provision for veterans and their families. Among laudable aims that he is describing. Given the established 13 action points and four principal recommendations, difficulties with keeping track of individual soldiers and the report specifically calls for the difficulties with giving the necessary support post “An uplift in the number of mental health professionals conducting discharge to all manner of servicemen and women, is it veterans outreach work… A Veterans Information Service (VIS) not time that we started to consider the possibility of a to be deployed 12 months after a person leaves the Armed veterans agency that brings together all these things and Forces… trial of an online early intervention service for serving provides a co-ordinating review and a hub point for all personnel and veterans.” these services? As part of the Government’s initial response, a dedicated 24-hour mental health support line for veterans was Julian Sturdy: I agree. As I said, there is a real launched in March 2011, operated by the charity Rethink problem about the joined-up thinking that needs to be on behalf of Combat Stress and funded by the Department done. A tremendous amount of work and services are of Health. In addition, the number of mental health out there, but we need to bring that all together, under professionals was doubled from 15 to 30. one roof. I will come on to that later if I can. With the “Fighting Fit” report, the Government’s There remains a real danger that too many veterans military covenant and the previous Government’s valuable will slip through the net because they fail to be registered work, much effort has been made to deal with this issue. for initial support on leaving the service and get lost 305WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 306WH

[Julian Sturdy] of using such people as champions to assist us in reaching veterans and dealing with the difficulties in the system thereafter. The best way to ensure that in relation to mental health even more effectively? support gets through to veterans is to keep up to date with veterans, as has been said. Julian Sturdy: I agree. We must use the experience of Having touched on the increase in mental health such people to help us in this process. Signposting is the nurses across the strategic health authorities covered by key. We have the strategy, but we need to bring things an armed forces network, I ask the Minister to outline together in a coherent manner that best serves veterans the initial effect that the Government believe those such as those whom hon. Members have mentioned in nurses are having. Is there sufficient demand for the their constituencies. increased services? Do we need to consider increasing As I have said repeatedly, the work carried out in this the numbers further? Ensuring that Government provision field recently has been outstanding, yet we cannot rest is frequently reviewed in such a manner will help to on our laurels. We need to engage more public interest. keep the ball rolling on this very important subject. We must continue to provide direct funding and support Without wishing to ask too many questions, I should and to monitor each initiative to ensure that it is proving be grateful to the Minister if he confirmed how many of effective. There are so many different strands of support. the 10 health networks have now developed integrated My final plea is that all the excellent provision be kept services for veterans with specific mental health problems. together in a specific and coherent strategy. We have As I said, ensuring that our provision is targeted correctly already in the debate heard about a number of different and effectively in supporting veterans is key. ways in which that might be done. If the provision is too loose, too disjointed or too sporadic in its implementation, I should now like to deal with the online package of we run the risk of undermining the general force of the interventions for veterans. In response to a recent written positive work in this area. question tabled by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Stephen I appreciate that a number of hon. Members would Phillips), the Minister, who I am delighted to see will like to contribute to the debate, so I shall briefly conclude respond to this debate, stated that the uptake of membership my thoughts. The work carried out by charities such as of the Big White Wall among the armed forces family is Help for Heroes, the Royal British Legion, Combat exceeding expectations. It would be interesting to know Stress and so many others literally saves lives. I applaud whether uptake among veterans is also high. Although every one of them. Likewise, hon. Members on both I am a great supporter of online interventions, my slight sides of the House who have championed our armed fear is that information, assistance and forms of community forces should be proud of the work achieved in recent engagement are all present and accessible online, but years to assist veterans who suffer from mental health only if someone actively searches for them. With respect problems. However, our work in scrutinising the present to veterans who suffer from mental health problems, we Government and future Governments must never cease. cannot expect all of them to be able or even willing to We have a duty to monitor and assess and to push those carry out such research. Are those leaving the service at the very top to ensure that veterans are at the top of provided with the relevant links and information before our leaders’ agendas. they leave? I save my last words for both serving and retired servicemen and women. I have never served in the James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): armed forces family, and I expect that only those who I, too, commend my hon. Friend for initiating the do will truly understand the pressure, sacrifice and debate. Does he agree that there is a key role to be honour that such service entails. I do not pretend to played by local authorities in providing the information understand what it must be like to face danger and even for veterans that he is describing? David Herbert, a death on foreign shores on behalf of Queen and country. constituent of mine in Halesowen, was instrumental in However, I can assure all veterans that I shall continuously bringing together a veterans charter in the Dudley do my best to ensure that they are never forgotten once borough, precisely to signpost veterans towards key their service is completed, that their needs are met by information in the local area, including information on the country to which they gave so much and that their provision of mental health services. dedication and commitment are rewarded, acknowledged and, indeed, celebrated. Julian Sturdy: I thank my hon. Friend for that timely intervention. I agree that local authorities have a key 2.49 pm role to play, and I agree with the point about the Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to veterans charter, which could go a long way towards serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dobbin. I congratulate delivering what we need, because ultimately we must the hon. Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) on signpost services correctly. That is the real point. As I securing this debate. Sadly, we do not give anything like said, there are great services out there, but I fear that if the attention we should to the consequences of our we do not signpost them to veterans effectively, we decisions to go to war. There are even instances where might be missing a trick. attempts seem to have been made to suppress knowledge of those consequences. In the past, it was possible for Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): The hon. Gentleman me as a Back Bencher to read out the names of all those has done a service to the House and to people outside it, who had fallen in the Iraq war and later in the Afghan particularly veterans, by initiating this debate today. war. Such practice is now expressly forbidden by the One of my constituents, Charlie Brindley, is a veteran rules of the House. If I attempted to read out those and a champion of veterans’ causes. Does the hon. names and their ranks today—I think that they would Gentleman agree that we should look for the best way make a greater impression than any speech that I could 307WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 308WH make—it would take about 25 minutes to complete the in this House. If we are to avoid fatalities and more list. The House has decided that it does not want to people being mentally damaged, our main task is to hear that, so it will never happen again. resist those who cry for war. There was an attempt to change the system of announcing the names of the fallen at Prime Minister’s 2.55 pm Question Time. The names were announced on a Monday and a Tuesday, but MPs protested, saying that they Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): It is a great pleasure wanted to hear those names announced at a time when and a privilege to speak in this debate today. I have been hon. Members and the press could give them their in this House for nearly two years and I have not had maximum attention, so we have now gone back to the the opportunity to raise the issue of the mental health original time. I believe that the country wishes to understand of veterans in the way in which we have done today. I the consequences of war. pay great tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) for securing this debate and I want to mention the case of a constituent of the for the measured and eloquent way in which he has hon. Member for Carmarthen West and South brought the issues to the House. Pembrokeshire (Simon Hart). If I have the hon. Gentleman’s permission to mention the details, I will be happy to I join my hon. Friend and other colleagues in passing relay the story. The case of Sergeant Dan Collins has on our respective condolences to the service men and moved everyone. He went to war at the age of 29. He women, and to the families of those who died in was optimistic and courageous and had a brilliant Afghanistan so recently. I endorse everything that both record of service. He was shot on two occasions and on the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition two other occasions, he was damaged by improvised said. It is an utter tragedy and one of the largest losses explosive devices, but the incidents that tormented him of life for many a year. I remain of the view that the the most were the deaths of two of his friends, one of sooner we bring our troops home from Afghanistan, whom died in the most dreadful circumstances, having the better it will be. lost a number of limbs. The sergeant was holding him This debate is certainly overdue. I want to make a as he died. It was that incident that tormented him. He declaration. I send out my thanks and support to the had fine treatment from his family, a loving girlfriend various charities, volunteer groups and individuals who and help from the local charity, Healing the Wounds. provide support. I echo the words of support for the Tragically, he took his own life earlier this year—he had Royal British Legion and Help for Heroes. If I need to attempted to do so before. declare that I have raised funds for such groups while If today’s tragedies are confirmed, the number who serving as a Member of Parliament, I do so. I certainly have fallen is 404. Sergeant Dan Collins will not be need to make a declaration that I have represented, as numbered among those and neither will many others. defence counsel, multitudes of soldiers facing criminal The results of the Afghan war will be seen not just in charges, which was a salutary and depressing experience. the numbers of the dead and the civilian dead, who are Many of the soldiers had committed criminal offences, uncounted, but in the 2,000 soldiers who are now broken which they had no desire to commit, because they were in body or mind. It is right that we should do all that we suffering from mental health problems and fundamentally can to treat them with the greatest care. from post-traumatic stress disorder. We should say a word of thanks to the Welsh I represented a Royal Marine who had broken down Government, who have taken this matter very seriously. in a supermarket after he had been unable to get together Recently, the Welsh Minister for Health, Lesley Griffiths, the right amount of money at the till. He felt that the announced that she was setting up a £500,000 fund to lady behind the counter, who had been perfectly civil to ensure that every health authority in Wales has a specialised him, had not been as co-operative as she should have doctor with experience in dealing with veterans to deal been and it all became too much. The nature and the with those who come back from the war. It is absolutely prevalence of post-traumatic stress are such that it is right that we do not disguise or shy away from the always the very smallest things at the end of the process consequences of our actions. that result in the demise of the mental strength of In my time in Parliament, we went to war in Iraq on people who have quite happily stormed up Tumbledown the basis of weapons of mass destruction that did not ridge, gone across the Gulf deserts and fought repeatedly exist. We stayed in Afghanistan mainly on the pretext of in a way that very few of us in this House can even a terrorist threat to the United Kingdom from the contemplate. It is how we provide support that is important. Taliban. That threat did not exist; there were threats As defence counsel for some of these lads and, on one from al-Qaeda, but not from the Taliban. We are now occasion, a woman, I saw very strongly how their spirit being told that we should contemplate war against Iran was broken. I have also seen, over the last 15 to 20 years on the basis that it has missiles carrying nuclear weapons of lawyer practice, plenty of examples of these people with a range of 6,000 miles, which do not exist. falling through the system.

Jim Dobbin (in the Chair): Order. May I remind the Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): My hon. hon. Gentleman that we are talking about the mental Friend is making an important speech about how people health of veterans? The scope is getting a bit too wide. fall through the net. My neighbour, the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), mentioned Charles Brindley, Paul Flynn: I am grateful for your patience, Mr Dobbin. who has been trying to do some work around GPs. Finally, when we establish a code of conduct and a Many GPs do not seem to be aware of the military covenant between us and the soldiers, our main duty assessment programme that is available. Often if someone should be to put as the first line a pledge that we will presents with a mental health issue, the GP is not never go into a war that is unnecessary. That is our duty trained or aware of the services and support that can be 309WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 310WH

[Andrew Percy] Guy Opperman: It is interesting, is it not, that today is 7 March and on 7 March 1982, exactly 30 years ago, made available. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need about three and a half weeks prior to the Argentine to ensure that GPs are better educated and better trained invasion of the Falklands, which happened on 2 April in dealing with such individuals? 1982, the British ambassador in Argentina wrote a cable from Buenos Aires to the then British Prime Guy Opperman: I entirely endorse that point. Although Minister, saying that matters were escalating. It is very it is incumbent upon Members of this House to raise well known, and it was reported in the Franks report the profile of this issue and to try to disseminate information that assessed the Falklands war, that “contingency plans” about the types of health care support that exist, it is needed to be made. That was not enough and a war also incumbent upon the relevant health trusts and began, then escalated. I certainly will not go down the authorities to ensure that in future a degree of information route taken by the hon. Member for Newport West is passed down the net to individual GPs and action (Paul Flynn) by digressing further. However, the point teams, particularly those teams dealing with alcohol is that the treatment of the veterans of the Falklands abuse, so that the organisations in the regions are able war was not as good as the treatment of veterans now, to support the veterans who are out there. partly because there were difficulties at that time in I have worked with a charity called Veterans in Action. understanding what post-traumatic stress disorder was. It involves some constituents of mine in Northumberland but it also involves servicemen and women who are From a health standpoint, PTSD is not confined to based in Lancashire and all over the country, who are victims of conflict. There are also plenty of victims of attempting to do various things. For example, they have PTSD who were involved in normal, day-to-day accidents a pilot project with the Lancashire Drug and Alcohol and disasters, whether it is industrial health accidents or Action Team that involves meeting up with GPs to factory accidents; people can have PTSD arising from work with them and trying to do exactly the sort of those things. We need to change the way that PTSD and thing that my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and other aspects of the mental health of veterans are Goole (Andrew Percy) has outlined. visualised, because it needs to be recognised that PTSD However, the worry is that, although individual groups and other mental health conditions are just as much a in our constituencies are all doing very good work to disease or condition as breaking an arm or suffering provide a degree of assistance to veterans, there is no from cancer, and it is just as difficult to solve or treat. overarching body providing global support. What often I move on. I endorse entirely what was said about the happens, therefore—for example it has happened with current situation, and I will abbreviate my comments to Veterans in Action, which was set up in my constituency making an assessment of the current situation. Various and is now working throughout the country—is that the studies have shown that a very large proportion of our individual soldiers effectively get fed up with the process veterans are suffering from PTSD. At present, approximately and decide to provide support themselves. 24,000 veterans are in jail, on parole or serving community I supported what the previous Government did. They punishment orders. That is the astonishing number that were working to do a great deal more than had previously emerges if we assess how many veterans are going been done. Successive Governments have improved care through our criminal justice system. It manifestly shows for veterans over time. But the “Fighting Fit” report that, for whatever reason, we have not done enough. and the work done by my hon. Friend the Member for Let us also bear in mind that American studies have South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) have clearly taken shown that approximately 30% of the US troops who things to the next stage and a better level. were in Vietnam suffered from PSTD, or about one in I will digress slightly, because in my constituency I three. That is an absolutely staggering number. Therefore, have the Albemarle barracks and the Otterburn ranges, although we might look at the respective troops coming troops from my constituency are serving on a regular home from Afghanistan, and at those who fought in basis in Afghanistan with the 39 Regiment Royal Artillery, Iraq and other conflict zones, and think that they are and the Ridsdale ranges provide all the weapons that alright, three out of 10 soldiers will genuinely suffer are tested before the soldiers use them. I also have a PSTD. They may suffer it in year one after their return. large number of constituents who have served in the Year 14 is the average length of time that it takes, but it forces. For example, many Falklands veterans live in my can take as long as 25 or 30 years, and throughout all of constituency and have come to see me because of the that time, their individual families are suffering and experiences that they have suffered and the lack of going through particular difficulties. support that they have experienced. That was under a I applaud the “Fighting Fit” report and the work that different Government and, frankly, I am not here to is being done. However, I regret to say that that is not criticise any Government. However, there is no question enough. Personally, I do not consider that it is enough. I but that the degree of support given to the Falklands accept entirely that we are in straitened times and that, veterans was limited compared with the support that we with every budget, we have to consider the way in which are giving to the veterans who are returning from things are dealt with. Nevertheless, I very much hope Afghanistan now. Things have got better. the Minister will give the sort of assurances that charities Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South and individual soldiers’ organisations seek about their Pembrokeshire) (Con): Further to the point made by future, and that there are commitments on an ongoing the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), I basis to the matters outlined in “Fighting Fit”, so that wanted to say that in the 30 years following the Falklands those charities and organisations have the reassurance conflict—it is rather timely to make this point, this year that genuine efforts will be made to ensure that their being the anniversary—more soldiers were reported to funding is sustained; that mental health systems are have committed suicide after the conflict than had structured properly; that the recommendations of the actually died in the conflict itself. inquiry into medical examinations while soldiers are 311WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 312WH still serving are properly implemented; and, given that I am conscious that other Members wish to get into we are introducing all these ideas from “Fighting Fit”, the debate, so I will abbreviate my comments. I want to that there will be proper assessment of those ideas after talk about the work of Veterans in Action, a classic they are introduced. I agree that organisations such as charity, which is run by individual veterans. For a the Big White Wall are not necessarily being utilised in number of years, they have been providing in-depth the way that was envisaged; they are being utilised, but support, which they have found is, sadly, lacking in the not necessarily in the way that was envisaged. system. They tell me that there is no generic way to I would very much like to see an overarching body for collect veterans’ information and that it is collected very veterans. I would like a veterans agency to be considered much on a local, case-by-case basis. Similarly, they say by the Government, and the Government to consider it is extremely difficult to get organisations to work whether there is a possibility of bringing together certain together. They also tell me that the Big White Wall is parts of the NHS, the Ministry of Defence and social not being used as it was intended to be and that people services and housing elements, which make up so much are using the Combat Stress helpline as a first point of of all the difficulties that our servicemen suffer, and contact. dovetailing that with the health services that are provided A great many smaller, third sector organisations and in prisons. charities set up by veterans are having similar problems. With no national directory or local directories of such We can look at the way that people are dealt with in organisations, it is immensely difficult for individual terms of health services in prisons. I have extensive veterans who are constantly moving around—who have experience of going to see clients who are former servicemen problems with housing and with all the dislocation that and who have received a custodial sentence or who are goes with that—to harness the efforts of such organisations. held on remand. There was absolutely no doubt that Therefore, just as successive Governments have done they were hopelessly unable to deal with the difficulties amazing work looking after individual veterans’ health of a custodial sentence, or the difficulties of being in conflict zones, we should do more to look after their detained, at that particular time, in circumstances that mental health after they have left those conflict zones. they would normally have been perfectly able to deal with. Several hon. Members rose—

Mr Gray: I have agreed with much of what my hon. Jim Dobbin (in the Chair): Order. I intend to call the Friend has had to say, but I have some difficulties with shadow Minister at 3.40 pm. the notion of the establishment of a new agency to carry out the functions that existing Government bodies are required to carry out at the moment. If there were a 3.11 pm veterans agency, would there not be a risk that people at John Pugh (Southport) (LD): I congratulate the hon. the Department of Health or the Ministry of Defence Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) on opening this would shrug their shoulders and say, “Someone else is important debate. doing this for us, leave it to them”, and that the services received by veterans would be significantly worse than I must admit that I am not a natural when it comes to they are at the moment? defence-orientated debates. I do not come from a garrison town and I have no experience of the forces—I suspect I am naturally too insubordinate to fit into them. However, Guy Opperman: I accept there is always a risk that, if I have a genuine interest in this issue. It is spurred not so we create some new body, we will be in a position much by constituency cases, although a soldier came to whereby everybody passes the buck and says, “Well, see me who was severely traumatised by the conflict he they’re sorting it out”. However, I am clear that every had endured, and the atrocities he had seen, in Aden. It single MP could come to this House and say, “I have was an awfully long time ago, but it had scarred his individual examples of people in my constituency, or whole life, traumatising him, driving him to alcoholism stories that I have heard of former servicemen.” Those and creating huge mental health issues. I also dealt with servicemen are continuing to slip through the net—they a case in which a gentleman who had been advised by are unaware of the individual aspects of the services the Ministry of Defence to assist it with research at that are available to them—and the Government are Porton Down on the common cold subsequently had a not necessarily acting as an overarching body to ensure lot of worries that were quite unrelated to his exposure that they are aware of those services. to the common cold. Let me give some examples. There is very good evidence What really sparked my interest, however, was my from the “Fighting Fit” report and other studies that experience on the Public Accounts Committee, which follow it up that there should be a leavers pack for produced a series of interesting reports on and around soldiers and, for example, an ability for veterans to be this area that showed up some quite distinctive and monitored after they have been discharged. All those worrying issues. The report I want to dwell on was services are good, but they stop after a certain period called “Ministry of Defence: Treating injury and illness and the Government do not go back to those individuals arising on military operations”. It showed quite categorically to ask, “Are you actually alright? Are you in a position that the forces were excellent at dealing with people’s to cope with the vicissitudes of your life and your physical ailments in the theatre of war and subsequently— existence on an ongoing basis?” That is the sort of thing the profile and the results were good, and the medical that I would like done. I concede that it may be possible treatment was exemplary. When it came to mental health, to do such things in the present Departments, but there however, there were some very odd results. For example, must be more joined-up thinking, because the problem it appeared that American and British soldiers exiting is ongoing, and there are examples. the same theatres of war had widely disparate experiences 313WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 314WH

[John Pugh] prepared to face up to them. One, although I have only anecdote to go on, is that some people enter the forces in terms of their mental health, with more Americans because the structure that they provide is exactly what reporting themselves, or being reported, as having mental their personality needs. When they leave the forces, health problems by a considerable margin. however, that structure simply disappears. Often, their Even more strangely, the figures coming out of the homes will have gone, and their families will sometimes British forces for mental health problems showed soldiers have gone, too, so they find themselves in difficult were experiencing no real anxiety at all; in fact, they territory. showed that troops were in just as good mental health A second suggestion is that there is necessarily a as the ordinary population, which was odd. During the culture of mental toughness in the forces, so people are PAC inquiry, I told Sir Bill Jeffrey, who was permanent slow to own up to whatever problems they may have. under-secretary at the time: Those problems might therefore go unrecognised and “I think we would all accept that war is extremely stressful and be submerged for quite some time, and that is at the people see some horrid, fearsome things that would disrupt the root of some of the problems that were so well analysed psychology of almost anybody. What surprises me”— by the hon. Member for York Outer. then and now— We in this place have clocked these problems, and “is that the referral of the Forces appears to be lower than the quite a lot has been done about them. Since 2010, when referral rate of the population as a whole.” the PAC report I quoted was produced, there has been a I put it to him that that was intrinsically implausible: surprising amount of really good progress. On 6 April “You would have thought there would be more mental health 2010, the previous Government committed themselves issues amongst a population of people who see quite traumatic to providing £2 million of new funding. They can be scenes than amongst those who do not.” credited with increasing the number of helplines and More brutally, I said the rate of referrals endeavouring to increase the education and training of GPs. We also pay tribute to the Murrison report, which “is actually lower than the population at large. In other words, it would appear…that in the confines of Committee Room 15”, represented excellent progress. Before that, the Ministry of Defence even did some research, which helped everything where the PAC was meeting, along. There is strong cross-party commitment to “we are far more vulnerable to mental health stress than people in recognising these problems and doing something about the operational theatre of war.” them. In a sense, therefore, Parliament can justifiably It can be pretty torrid in the PAC at times, but I suggest credit itself with having done something about a very that result shows that something is going awry in the real and clearly identified problem. forces’ reading of troops’ mental health post-war. I would like to conclude by thinking about where we Equally puzzling was the disparity between people go from here. My concern is that most of the solutions coming out of the Iraq and Afghanistan theatres of that were proposed following the previous Government’s war. Lieutenant-General Baxter, who was then the deputy deliberations and the Murrison report involved something Chief of the Defence Staff, explained: along the lines of specialist health service commissioning. “I think you have to look at the nature of combat…When you I do not want to talk about the difficulties of the are being shot at and you can shoot back, it is a lot less stressful legislation currently going through Parliament, but such than when you are being bombed or suffering indirect fire.” specialist commissioning is an issue. The hon. Member I do not know whether that is true, but it invites serious for Hexham (Guy Opperman) has advocated as a solution questions about the level and quality of screening when getting round specialist commissioning to some extent people are discharged. by means of an agency that is a one-stop, catch-all Other reports that the PAC produced at the time were arrangement. Creditable though that suggestion is, it equally troubling. They showed, for example, that squaddies will not get us out of the business of specialist were far less well prepared for the outside world than commissioning, because the problems will show up they could have been when they were discharged. There locally in many diverse settings. I wonder whether the were also troubling statistics, with which we are all Minister will say something about that. familiar, about high rates of alcohol problems, imprisonment and homelessness among people leaving Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): When I was the Defence the forces. Minister with responsibility for such matters, we set up That is all very troubling, and the causes are fairly pilot schemes with the NHS, with which Combat Stress complex, but one thing is absolutely clear: the screening was involved. Delivery issues are important, because in of soldiers exiting the theatre of war was very poor in most respects the treatment is exactly the same whether the British forces. Often, it was done simply through the patient is a civilian or not, but some members or self-completed questionnaires, but people do not ordinarily former members of the armed forces would prefer to volunteer any deep psychological problems they may talk to someone with experience in the armed forces. think they have in such a questionnaire. That is why we involved such people in the pilots. There was also evidence in the PAC report that I On the other hand, other people from the armed quoted that support for people in the theatre of war was forces did not want to see someone who had also been relatively poor. The most that they seemed to get out in the armed forces, because as far as they were concerned there most of the time was three community nurses, that life had finished, or they wanted to move on, or along with one consultant psychiatrist every three months. they had had a bad experience. It is a difficult issue If people showed up with problems in the theatre of to come to terms with, and that is why there is a need to war, those problems were unlikely to be fielded especially mix and match support and clinical help. It is important well. There are particular issues here, and we must be for people to have that choice. 315WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 316WH

John Pugh: I defer to the hon. Gentleman’s experience, professionals providing outreach work for veterans and and he is probably right in advocating that solution. the introduction of a veterans information service, deployed The question is who will secure that proper mix. 12 months after a person leaves service. The Government have also, of course, published the The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon armed forces covenant, which sets a framework on how Burns): Will the hon. Gentleman give way? the armed forces community can expect to be treated. It includes improving veterans’ access to mental health John Pugh: The Minister is going to tell us. services, such as building a greater focus on mental health into discharge and examination. My constituent Mr Burns: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. made the point to me forcefully that early intervention Given that I will not have very much time to speak, can is the key. We need to ensure that veterans with post- I deal with the question of who will commission veterans’ traumatic stress disorder or other mental health-related mental health services? It will be the responsibility of issues are spotted early, and I am pleased that the the NHS Commissioning Board. Government recognise that. It is important to work to remove the stigma that is in John Pugh: I am relieved that it is placed within an many ways attached to mental health trauma, particularly appropriate body, although the board has an awful lot for veterans. Such awareness could be raised by a national else to do. memorial to those who suffer mental health problems because of combat. That is not my idea, but the idea of 3.21 pm Mr Marston, who is frustrated by the treatment of veterans. I pay tribute to his dedication to that cause. Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): I congratulate my hon. He has told me about a new veterans contact point Friend the Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) on close to where he lives, but says there is little awareness bringing forward such a sensitive topic, and I associate of it in the veteran community, or even the wider myself with his remarks about today’s tragic news about community. That facility has the potential to be of the loss of life in Afghanistan. massive benefit to all ex-servicemen, but Mr Marston Like many hon. Members who have attended the believes that it has not been sufficiently publicised. debate, I am encouraged to participate following a Mr Marston would like the idea of such a monument meeting a month ago with a constituent of mine, Mr Paul to be pursued, and he has registered an e-petition on the Marston, an ex-serviceman. He expressed serious concern No. 10 website, calling for such a memorial to injured about the lack of recognition for servicemen leaving the soldiers. There are, of course, many memorials to those armed forces who are affected physically and mentally. who have fallen in war, but the one suggested by That prompted me, as it did many other hon. Members, Mr Marston would be particularly for those who suffer to look into the situation. from physical or mental health problems, and it would Approximately 22,000 armed services personnel leave raise the profile of veterans with health issues. It would the service to return to civilian life every year. There are also be a worthy endeavour in itself. I acknowledge that an estimated 5 million veterans in the UK. For many of that is outside the area of responsibility of the Minister those people, who are used to support within the armed who is responding today, but it will be of substantial forces family, it is often difficult to cope outside the comfort to Mr Marston and many of his colleagues to military framework. Veterans face a range of problems know that consideration is being given to recognising in associated with mental health, to which my hon. Friend that way the contribution that veterans have made. the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) drew our attention, ranging from the failure to hold down 3.26 pm employment and problems in their personal lives to alcohol or drug misuse and contact with the judicial Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): I was not system. Given the contribution that veterans have made planning to speak, Mr Dobbin. to our country, it is vital that the Government should do all in their power to provide a dedicated mental Jim Dobbin (in the Chair): No, I did not think that health service for veterans. you were. I have a further interest in the matter, as a member of the armed forces parliamentary scheme. Like many Andrew Percy: I will speak only for three or four other hon. Members, when I first arrived here I knew minutes, which I think will give the shadow Minister nothing about the armed forces, and through that scheme and the Minister longer than they were expecting; but I have had the pleasure of visiting troops abroad and as there was not a line of hon. Members waiting to have learned something of their lives at first hand. I speak, I thought that I would add my voice to this have met some of them at Camp Bastion in Afghanistan. important debate. I apologise, Mr Dobbin, for not I have recently returned from a trip with the scheme to dropping you a note. the Army training centre in Kenya, where I met soldiers I congratulate my near neighbour, my hon. Friend taking part in a hot climate training exercise in preparation the Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy), on securing for a tour of Afghanistan later this year. this important debate on a vital issue. There are no Having met the servicemen and listened to my constituent party politics involved; we all agree about the sort of and other people, I welcome the Government’s commitment services that we want provided for ex-service personnel. to act on the review carried out by my hon. Friend the I just want to tell the story of a constituent of my Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison). I neighbour, the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin). understand that there were four key recommendations, He is the gentleman whom I mentioned earlier, Charles including an increase in the number of mental health Brindley, who is the vice-chairman of the Royal British 317WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 318WH

[Andrew Percy] Andrew Percy: I entirely endorse what my hon. Friend says. We have probably all seen examples in our surgeries Legion in Brigg, in my constituency. He has been trying of military service sometimes leading to breakdowns, to put together a project in the area to establish better which are then presented at our constituency surgery mental health and support services for veterans. He is for assistance. I am reminded of the old saying: while trying to co-ordinate through the councils, and I am the physical wounds may heal, the mental scars never pleased that North Lincolnshire council has taken him quite go away. So I endorse what has been said by other up on his offer of working with it. Members today. There is so much involved in trying to bring everything together. The e-mails that we have had from Charles John Pugh: One of the themes in the debate today has Brindley and the discussions that we have had with him been whether we do or do not have a veterans agency. have been quite enlightening. He has been trying to Somebody said that the veterans agency is an American work with the Prison Service, and he found out that one model, but the Americans do not have our GP system. prison does not have a dedicated individual to respond Even with the existence of a veterans agency, is there to ex-service personnel there. He has been trying to not a problem with how that then interacts with the GP, work with the primary care trusts and GPs on the very who will often be the first port of call when problems point that I raised with my hon. Friend the Member for occur? Hexham (Guy Opperman): raising GPs’ awareness of what is available through the NHS for ex-service personnel. Andrew Percy: That is exactly the point that the hon. He has also been trying to work with other organisations Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) accepted. In that I would not even have thought of, such as Age UK, creating anything, there will always be interaction problems. which has told him that older people may now be We all know where we want to be; how we get there is starting to present with mental health problems that go probably a bit more difficult. Now that the shadow a long way back. Minister and the Minister will have a little more time, I am sure that they will expertly plot a course forward to A range of organisations and institutions come across deal with these issues. ex-service personnel at different points in their lives and provide them with services, and the fact that they are not necessarily always joined up concerns me. Some of 3.32 pm what is happening can certainly be brought together Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): As under the auspices of the local authorities, but I echo always, it is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Dobbin. the idea of a dedicated veterans agency. The example I congratulate the hon. Member for York Outer (Julian that is probably most similar to what we want are the Sturdy) on securing this important and topical debate. incredibly dedicated services, including specialist health We have heard the sad news today that six of our service services, provided to veterans in the United States, personnel are missing and presumed dead in Afghanistan. where veterans seem to be provided with a lot of support It is a poignant reminder of the reality of serving in Her that we in this country sadly do not give. Majesty’s armed forces. Our thoughts and prayers are As many Members have said, it is often far down the with the families at this time. line that mental health problems start to rear up. This I note that we had a similar debate on this subject last summer, I met one of my ex-pupils walking through the year, proposed by my right hon. Friend the Member for town centre. I had not seen him since I taught him when Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears). It explored many of he was about 16, and I asked him what he had been the important issues surrounding the mental health doing since then. He said, “I’ve been out in Afghanistan.” of veterans. It is right that we should again take the I think he was in a Yorkshire regiment. He said, “I got opportunity to discuss the welfare of our serving personnel shot. I’ll show you.” He then rolled up his trouser leg to and veterans and the impact on their families. For show me his bullet wounds. I asked him if he was okay, veterans’ mental health, we need to look at the true and he said, “I’m absolutely fine. I’m going to get paid picture of how people are affected after they have left out now. I’m going to get a better pension, and I’m service. Indeed, we should be paying as much attention going to get a house. Everything’s fine.” He may think to the issues that face service personnel and their families that he is fine now, but in 10 or 15 years’ time, with his when they leave the armed service as when they are career in the military effectively ended, a mental health actually in service. problem, as we know, could rear its head. What will there be to support that individual then? He is getting a The UK’s armed services are among the best in the lot of support from the Army at the moment—he had world, and we can rightly be proud of them. We owe no criticism of that—but in 10 or 20 years’ time, that them a great deal of gratitude for the work that they do support might not be there, or he might not know how in our name. The charity, Combat Stress, has shown to access it. that a significant minority of servicemen and women suffer from mental ill health as a result of their experiences. A study in May 2010 into personnel who had served in Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): I hope that my hon. Iraq and Afghanistan showed a 4% prevalence of probable Friend will agree that another consequence of delayed post-traumatic stress disorder. An estimated 180,000 troops stress and trauma for veterans can be the impact on have served in those two operations: if 4% develop their family relationships. Representing families in courts, PTSD, that equates to 7,200 more sufferers. I have seen over the years that that has caused difficulties. The study also highlighted a prevalence of 19.7% for It has been largely a case of fathers having a less common mental disorders, and 13% for alcohol misuse. meaningful relationship with their children and being We must look into ways in which we can deal with that less able to take responsibility for them. and ensure that the right facilities and support are in 319WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 320WH place to diagnose and treat such conditions. Admittedly, reassured by the Minister’s reply that a single commissioning improvements have been made in recent years. Mental body, the NHS Commissioning Board, will be responsible. health pilot schemes have improved support and treatment I think that that is the right way forward. for personnel suffering from mental health problems. Clearly, those in the armed forces are trained to do a In 2007, the Labour Government extended priority tough job and rightly have to develop a tough mental access to NHS services to all veterans whose medical attitude. This, of course, can mean that it can be harder conditions or injuries were suspected of being due to for people coming out of the services to admit that they military service. Priority access had previously extended have a mental health problem, let alone talk about it. only to those claiming a war pension, and efforts were We should also take into account how long it can take made to raise awareness of that. As has been mentioned people actually to get the support that they need. Combat in the debate, we now have the armed forces covenant Stress has suggested that the average length of time is enshrined in law, which I think all hon. Members welcome. 13 years. In some cases, it has taken veterans 40 years to seek out the help and support that they need. That is far The interim report on the covenant summarises the too long, and we should do all that we can to shorten Government’s approach, taking forward recommendations the time and to let people know that help is available for in the report by the hon. Member for South West them now. Wiltshire (Dr Murrison), “Fighting Fit”, which I also welcome. I understand that the report’s recommendations Combat Stress has also provided detailed evidence were rolled out over the past year, many of which were involving cases of individuals who have faced marriage introduced as pilot programmes to be reassessed after break-up, unemployment, social isolation or substance their initial trial periods. I would welcome an update abuse because they were unable to deal with their mental from the Minister on the pilots and also an assurance health problems. However, as with all mental health that his Department has been promoting them among conditions, a great deal of stigma still surrounds it, serving personnel and veterans’ communities. which can make it much harder to talk about openly. Until we tackle that stigma, it will be difficult to make Most Members will have met ex-service constituents significant changes. who have been directly affected and heard about their experiences, some of which we have heard in the debate I appreciate that it is hard to establish the level of today. We should rightly recognise the important work need without a tracking system. As we know, there is no done by organisations such as Combat Stress, which record of how many veterans are being treated for provides an invaluable service to veterans around the mental health problems on the NHS. Clearly, if we country. Its centres and outreach work allow veterans cannot quantify the problem, it is difficult for the to get the help and support that they need in a specialised Government to quantify the true cost of treating mental environment, along with other veterans who are going illness among former members of the armed forces. through similar experiences. Nor should we overlook the impact of deployments on the mental health of our reservists, as has been The Enemy Within campaign run by Combat Stress mentioned. As we know, the Government’s Future Force seeks to tackle the stigma that, unfortunately, as we 2020 plan showed that the role of reservists will increase have heard today, can be a barrier to people getting the significantly in the coming years, mirrored by reductions support and help that they need. Currently, they have a in the number of regular service personnel. It must caseload of more than 4,800 veterans, including 228 make sense for the Government to ensure that support who have served in Afghanistan and 589 who served in is in place for reservists prepared to take on those extra Iraq. The majority are ex-Army: 83.5%. Their youngest responsibilities. veteran is just 20. The invaluable work of Combat Stress and other organisations, such as the Royal British Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Legion, is to be warmly welcomed, but the Government Cleveland) (Lab): I commend my hon. Friend on his should also take on their fair share of the responsibility. speech. Is there not a problem in the offing, given that It is important that we do not view the services offered the Army is being reduced to 82,000 soldiers and certain by the voluntary and charitable sector as any sort of regiments are being disbanded? We need to know what replacement. That work should complement, not replace, the NHS Commissioning Board and the Department of the services that the Government offer. Health are doing to aid those who will soon be former Indeed, as we already know, the charitable sector is soldiers entering civilian life and to determine their facing an incredibly tough time at the moment. Even mental health issues and what type of help the NHS can though organisations such as Combat Stress and the provide. Royal British Legion have continued to have generous support from the public, we should not assume that Andrew Gwynne: I absolutely agree that we must those services will always exist and always have enough ensure that ex-service personnel are supported. I am funding to run. The Government should decide which sure that the Minister will respond to that in his closing services they have a duty to provide and should fund remarks. them properly. The Government need not always be the One recommendation in the report “Fighting Fit” vehicle to deliver those services, as we have heard, but stated that a veterans’ information service should be they can fund experts such as Combat Stress and the deployed 12 months after a person leaves the armed Royal British Legion to do so on their behalf. forces and that regulars and reservists should be followed The Government should also consider how mental up approximately 12 months after they leave. Will the health services for veterans can be guaranteed, when Minister update us on how that is developing, and what their national health service reforms are creating so plans the Government have for the future funding of much uncertainty. I share the concerns of the hon. the Combat Stress-led 24-hour support telephone line Member for Southport (John Pugh), although I am for veterans? Will the Department provide an evaluation 321WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 322WH

[Andrew Gwynne] well-being, that of their families and that of veterans. There is no issue of greater importance for this Government, of how the funding for “Fighting Fit” has been spent, and I am pleased that my right hon. Friend the Prime what it has achieved and what will happen for future Minister has made it one of his priorities. funding? What additional steps is the Department taking It is crucial and universally accepted that the health to raise public awareness of issues that relate to veterans’ care provided by the Defence Medical Services to serving mental health? members of our armed forces is second to none. It is Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): equally important that services are provided for our While my hon. Friend is on the subject of funding, is he, veterans for the rest of their lives when their health is like me, keen to hear from the Minister whether he affected as a result of their service, and that those supports our call for a £1 million fund for research into services should be second to none. That is why I am legacy issues from Afghanistan and Iraq, with a focus pleased that in recent years, great strides have been on mental health? That could be paid for by a reduction made. I was particularly delighted to see in the Chamber in generals in the forces. a former Minister who had responsibility for veteran affairs during the previous Administration: the hon. Andrew Gwynne: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Member for Halton (Derek Twigg), who was here to The Labour Front-Bench defence team has made that listen to and participate in this debate. While he served commitment, which is laudable. Redistributing part of in that post, he had a record of which he could be the saving to serve veterans’ mental health shows that justifiably proud. the issue is a priority for us. Several Members, including my hon. Friend the Member This debate has provided us with the opportunity to for York Outer, raised the question of funding. Real-terms explore the issue of our veterans’ mental health and funding for the NHS as a whole is increasing, as we all welfare. I pay tribute to Combat Stress, the Royal know, but we have invested more than £7 million of British Legion and other groups that, along with many funding in veterans’ mental health over the spending service organisations and charities, play an outstanding review period. I reassure hon. Members that we will role in supporting the whole armed forces family, for continue to fund veterans’ mental health initiatives for which we should thank them. I congratulate the hon. the lifetime of this Parliament. Member for York Outer on securing the debate. We must ensure that our servicemen and women receive The focus of this debate is on raising awareness of support after their tour of duty is finished. Surely, we as veterans’ mental health. I feel strongly that we are now a nation owe them that. tackling the issue from a far more informed position than we once did. Thanks to charities such as Help for 3.43 pm Heroes, the Royal British Legion, Combat Stress and The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Families Association, Burns): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, awareness of the well-being of the military community Mr Dobbin. I am delighted that the House once again is high both in Parliament and, fortunately, among the has the opportunity to debate an important issue, although general public. it is sad that we are holding this debate against the I highlight the work of my hon. Friend the Member backdrop of tragic news from Afghanistan. We await for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison), to whom the final details of what has happened over there, but many hon. Members referred. The report that he produced we must give full consideration to the families and will push forward the agenda to improve and enhance friends who might be suffering at this terrible time. veterans’ health. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for York asked my hon. Friend to conduct a study on the relationship Outer (Julian Sturdy) on securing this debate. I also between the NHS and the armed forces, including former thank the other hon. Members who have taken part. service personnel, in terms of mental health. The result The number of hon. Members in the Chamber for a was the report “Fighting Fit”, which I commend to Westminster Hall debate shows how important it is and those who have not already read or seen it, although, why a debate is justified after we had one only three judging from my hon. Friends’ speeches, a disproportionate months ago. number of hon. Members in the Chamber have read it. I congratulate my hon. Friends the Members for I am proud to say that both the Department of Hexham (Guy Opperman), for Rugby (Mark Pawsey) Health and the Ministry of Defence have been working and for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) on their on the report’s implementation ever since it was published, contributions, and I thank the hon. Members for Newport which represents a milestone in the effort to improve West (Paul Flynn) and for Southport (John Pugh) for mental health care for ex-service personnel. For me, one theirs, but I particularly congratulate my hon. Friend of the strongest themes of the report, and a factor that the Member for York Outer on the measured, informed is particularly relevant to the topic of this debate, is the and caring way in which he introduced the subject. It effect that service care can have on the mental health became clear as I listened to him that it is important to and well-being of those who have served. Some obvious him as both a constituency Member of Parliament and themes emerged from the findings of my hon. Friend as an individual. That came through during the course the Member for South West Wiltshire, echoed in research of his remarks. by some of our partner organisations, in particular our As hon. Members will be more than aware, members strategic partner, Combat Stress. Its research shows that of the armed forces put their lives on the line for their the average ex-serviceperson can take up to 14 years to country, but it is we as parliamentarians who send seek help for anxiety and depression that has developed them into combat. It is therefore incumbent on us to as a result of their service in the armed forces. Combat do everything that we can to protect their health and Stress put it vividly, and said that 323WH Veterans (Mental Health)7 MARCH 2012 Veterans (Mental Health) 324WH

“those veterans suffer terribly in silence, often for years, before change in circumstances. By creating services that are seeking help”, easily accessible and trustworthy, we are going some a fact that was echoed in hon. Members’ speeches. way towards building an environment in which an We must keep that in mind when services are designed. ex-serviceperson feels accepted and understood, and in The help that we offer must be accessible throughout which recovery is more likely. veterans’ lives, not just when they return from duty. We At the heart of easily accessible services should be a must also remember that today, we may just as well be requirement to make them readily available in each designing and delivering care for Falklands veterans as local area. Having a service in each area, especially if it for those who have served bravely in Iraq or Afghanistan. has a high military profile, goes a long way towards We owe it to all groups of veterans to get things right, to raising awareness of veterans’ mental health issues in understand that mental health issues can come into an the country as a whole. I am particularly proud of the ex-serviceperson’s life long after they have been discharged, effort that the Department of Health and my officials and to communicate that message to the public. It have made to spearhead the set-up of armed forces should be a key part of any awareness campaign. networks in each of the old strategic health authority “Fighting Fit” makes it clear that some veterans can areas. The networks are groups of representatives from never bring themselves to seek help—those who will not the national health service, service charities and the admit, even to themselves, that they have a problem, armed forces who can represent the health and well-being and who must rely on close family members and friends interests of serving personnel, their families and veterans to help them move forward. In partnership with Combat in the local area. Stress, we have launched a 24-hour veterans’ mental As part of meeting the “Fighting Fit”recommendations, health support line run by a charity, Rethink. The integrated veterans’ mental health services are now helpline is based on the principle of lifelong care and being set up in each network area by the local NHS offers support to veterans of any age and at any stage in working in conjunction with Combat Stress. The services their lives. Families may also contact the helpline, both are at different stages of development, but I can tell my for themselves and to talk about a loved one. It allows hon. Friend the Member for York Outer, who specifically both groups to receive targeted support from people asked about this, that six of the 10 are already up and trained and experienced in dealing with often complex running and the remaining four will come online shortly. mental health needs. We have also increased the number of mental health Both my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer professionals providing services to veterans, not by the and the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew 30 recommended in the Murrison report, but by 50. My Gwynne) raised the issue of funding the helpline and its hon. Friend will be aware that the recommendation was future funding. I am extremely pleased to announce 30, but we have been able to exceed that, and there are that the total number of calls taken by the helpline is now 50 in place, which will considerably help to provide now upwards of 5,000. Hon. Members may be aware support and assistance to veterans. that we initially launched the helpline as a one-year pilot, which expired at the end of February this year. Gemma Doyle: Will the Minister give way? However, I am pleased to announce today that we are continuing to fund it for the next year and will consider Mr Burns: No, I will not, because I am almost running future funding after that. Working closely with Combat out of time. Stress and other partner organisations, it will continue. The partnership with Combat Stress and the innovative We are also working to introduce a veterans’ information solutions delivered by the NHS at a local level is to be service over the next two months or so. It will routinely applauded. Regarding effectiveness, we are still in early contact service leavers 12 months after they are discharged days, but initial feedback has been positive, with more to establish whether they have any health needs that veterans being identified in the mental health care system require attention. The “Fighting Fit” report refers to and receiving the treatment that they need and deserve. the service as something of a safety net to help veterans once the support structures available to them during I want to point to an example of what is happening in their service lives are no longer readily accessible. To get the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for it right, it is essential that we are able easily to identify York Outer. The work of Andy Wright with the vulnerable veterans, so we are working with the Ministry of Defence veterans and adult dependants project is particularly to ensure that a veteran’s status is properly recorded on noteworthy and warrants praise. I am delighted to his or her records. However, we must equally recognise report that the project has delivered high levels of that some who leave do not wish to have their veteran’s patient satisfaction, with 85% being very satisfied with status recorded, and it is right to respect those wishes. their therapist. It is an excellent example of collaboration, which can only serve to raise further the profile of Returning to the issue of the safety net, there is veterans’ issues more generally. another key point when it comes to an awareness of mental health issues of any sort. Perceived isolation can There is a final and vital aspect of veterans’ mental have a bad effect on mental health problems. The problem health and care that I would like to explore, which hon. is bad enough anyway, but among ex-service personnel, Members have mentioned, and that is stigma. The title it is often particularly bad, because the camaraderie “Fighting Fit” that exists within a forces setting is so pronounced. It “recognises the importance of stigma and of making interventions makes sense that once the institutional support network acceptable to a population accustomed to viewing itself as mentally goes, an ex-serviceperson might feel alone, adrift or and physically robust.” isolated. Support services should not necessarily try to Stigma is a big barrier standing in the way of ex-service recreate that camaraderie. It is often more beneficial in people getting help, and it is vital that we do everything the long term to help veterans come to terms with their we can to reduce it. Many Members on both sides of 325WH Veterans (Mental Health) 7 MARCH 2012 326WH

[Mr Simon Burns] Typhoon Aircraft (Exports) the House will be aware of the “Big White Wall”, an online well-being network for serving personnel, their 4pm families, veterans and the general public. It is a social network that allows people with mental health problems Jim Dobbin (in the Chair): I give warning that I will from every walk of life to engage with others who have call the Minister in this debate no later than 20 past 4. similar problems. The anonymity of the network allows We have had a couple of problems in previous debates. for a free and frank exchange of experiences, with a view to generating a wider sense of support, and it is Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): I am delighted to have staffed by professional counsellors. The Department of secured this debate on support for export sales of Typhoon Health and the MOD are funding a one-year pilot for aircraft. It also gives me great pleasure to serve under service personnel, their families and veterans on the your chairmanship, Mr Dobbin. I am pleased that the “Big White Wall”. I am pleased to say that it has had Under-Secretary of State for Defence, my hon. Friend excellent take-up. Up to 1 March, 2,019 places of the the hon. Member for Aldershot (Mr Howarth), is original 2,400 provided in the pilot have been filled. Of responding. That is appropriate considering all that he those, veterans represent 40%, with 38% being serving has done on recent visits, on behalf of the Government, personnel and 22% family members. to India. Launched on the same day as the “Big White Wall”, It is always a pleasure to speak on behalf of my and in conjunction with the Royal College of General hard-working constituents in Fylde, many of whom are Practitioners, an online e-learning package aims to employed in the aerospace industry. In my constituency, educate civilian GPs about the conditions from which BAE Systems’ Warton site employs 6,272 people, with a veterans often suffer. The idea is to reduce the stigma further 4,000 employed in neighbouring Samlesbury. attached and increase the likelihood that GPs will be Indeed, BAE Systems provides one in four of all local able to give veterans effective and suitable care. That manufacturing jobs in Fylde. Typhoon is the world-class has been successful with its target audience; the package platform on which the long-term success of UK military has had almost 14,000 hits since its launch. aerospace is predicated. That is why I called for today’s I believe that there is a consensus on both sides of the debate. House that much is being done, but much more remains Those jobs are vital in our mission to rebalance the to be done. The more we as Government can engage British economy, by returning manufacturing to its with veterans, the public and the media, the more likely core. The military aerospace sector represents 70% of mental health issues will be understood more widely. I all UK defence exports, which are worth £4.5 billion a hope that hon. Members on both sides of the House year to the British economy. Typhoon alone directly will continue to work together to help the services reach supports 10,000 jobs in the UK, and more than double their full potential, so that no ex-serviceperson ever has that indirectly. At a time when all parties are rightly anything less than all the support that they need of the worried about youth unemployment, it is important to highest quality. appreciate BAE Systems’ commitment to training and developing people, with 1,000 apprentices and 500 graduate trainees at any one time. It also sustains a supply chain made up of many small and medium-sized enterprises, including 1,200 suppliers in the north-west alone.

Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Companies such as C-MAC and Norfolk Capacitors in Great Yarmouth are also part of the supply chain to MOD projects and other organisations’ projects. Does he agree that the issue affects SMEs across the country, including in places such as Great Yarmouth?

Mark Menzies: Absolutely. BAE Systems is always the company one thinks about in relation to Typhoon, but my hon. Friend has rightly pointed out that component suppliers—large and small—are located in every corner of the country. I know he has spoken up on behalf of his constituents on the matter. As well as benefiting the economy as a whole, supporting the Typhoon programme has direct advantages to taxpayers by reducing the Ministry of Defence’s unit costs. Savings are generated through increased production runs and a global network of operators, as well as through the pooling of spares and other support-related activities. Exports level out the peaks and troughs of domestic demand and give the MOD more programme flexibility. They also underpin some of our most important strategic relationships. 327WH Typhoon Aircraft (Exports)7 MARCH 2012 Typhoon Aircraft (Exports) 328WH

BAE Systems’ highly skilled work force have extensive not just by the Prime Minister’s visit to India, leading expertise and experience over many decades of working the delegation, but by his proactive approach and extensive in-country with global partners to deliver platforms knowledge of the topic at a recent meeting that hon. that best fit their unique operational requirements, such Members held with him at No. 10 to discuss this important as the Hawk trainer in India and the Tornado in Saudi matter. I also thank the Minister for his two ministerial Arabia. I have no doubt that the same work force are visits to India within the last year; he need take lessons more than capable of continuing to deliver that level of from no one when it comes to upholding the interests of service with Typhoon. the UK defence sector abroad. None the less, I would In all defence exports, the importing Government are encourage him, in his ongoing discussions with his the customer, and their relationship with the exporting Indian counterparts, to urge them genuinely to review, Government is vital. That is why our support is so vital: even at this late stage, the details of this contract, in customer Governments need to know that a Typhoon particular, to note the advantages that working with acquisition will enable inter-operability, and facilitate a BAE Systems on Hawk has brought the Indian air close and enduring relationship between the air forces force. It should not be forgotten that both the Royal Air of the two countries, with opportunities to train together, Force and the royal Saudi air force use the Hawk as the share assets and doctrine, and determine ways to enhance trainer aircraft for Typhoon. Together, those aircraft capability and reduce the cost of operation. Here the mark a perfect partnership in Anglo-Indian co-operation. support of the MOD, in particular, is crucial. It is India has always been a proud nation; now it has important that we continue to give our partners that truly come of age. India’s new role is not just regional confidence. but international. Britain has consistently supported I believe the Government understand that. That is United Nations Security Council reform to recognise why, while respecting Germany’s role as consortium that reality. However, if India is to play its full part on leader, the British Government have given such strong the world stage, it needs the very best military equipment. backing to the sale of Typhoons to India. Typhoon, I believe, is the best fighter jet currently on the market. Diplomatically, India’s international position Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): I congratulate the would also be enhanced by stronger relations with the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate because the UK and other partner nations—Germany, Italy and Eurofighter and BAE Systems are critical to his area. Spain. He talks about the Government’s relationship with BAE It is important to remember that the consortium is Systems. One anonymous industry source was reported made up of private sector companies that need to take in the newspaper as saying about the Typhoon Indian primary responsibility for any commercial deal. They contract: must continue to work together to provide a united “Our defence industry is not working in tandem with the front for potential customers. They must be proactive in Government as much as the French worked with Dassault.” seeking deals on behalf of their shareholders. Perhaps What would the hon. Gentleman say in response to most importantly, they must be competitive on price. that? However, Government can play a supporting role, as the example of Nissan proved so successfully yesterday. Mark Menzies: The hon. Gentleman summed it up: it To that end, I ask the Ministry of Defence to give a was an anonymous source. My experience is that the long-term commitment to enhance Typhoon with British Government and BAE Systems have no criticism operational capabilities that are essential to both the of each other in the way they have been working to try RAF and export customers, such as e-scan radar, and to achieve the best for the work force in Warton. The the integration of new weapon systems. Prime Minister himself took a leading role in the UK’s largest trade mission to India in living memory. I was Graham Jones: The hon. Gentleman is making a encouraged. good point. He is passionate about BAE Systems. That passion is there for all to see and has been ever since he Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): I also was elected. The Government’s White Paper, “National congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. As Security Through Technology”, suggests that British he knows, BAE Systems at Brough is just outside my companies no longer have priority when it comes to constituency. We have a few choice things to say about MOD contracts. What does that say to foreign BAE, but that is for another time. In relation to the Governments, if the UK Government are unsure about Typhoon contract, which was another blow for the whether they are going to buy their own products? whole of BAE, including in Brough, does my hon. Friend agree that it is quite bizarre, given how much Mark Menzies: The hon. Gentleman raises an important foreign aid we give to India—I think four times more point, which, were it to be taken literally, as he just said than the French—that we are not in the running? There it, would be a cause of concern. However, the White is still an opportunity for the Government to get their Paper states the UK Government’s commitment to full weight behind the contract and to say to the Indians, research and development very clearly, and that is an “We expect something in return for what we give in area on which we lead the world. The Government, aid.” through the White Paper, are determined to continue to lead the world in those strategic sectors. Mark Menzies: My hon. Friend has put that in words Typhoon exports are not just a matter for the Ministry that I possibly could not. I will come later to some of of Defence. I appreciate that the Under-Secretary of the things that I think the British Government could do. State for Defence is responding to the debate. However, It is important to clarify the importance that the Typhoon exports are inherently cross-departmental. It British Government place on this. I was encouraged, is vital for the Department for Business, Innovation and 329WH Typhoon Aircraft (Exports)7 MARCH 2012 Typhoon Aircraft (Exports) 330WH

[Mark Menzies] Government’s commitment to promote responsible exports, as set out in the coalition agreement, we have been Skills, from the Secretary of State down, to engage fully especially active in supporting and promoting defence with its German and Indian counterparts. I also urge all exports to overseas customers. We have intensified our relevant Departments to ask their Indian counterparts support for bilateral engagement by directing that every whether they are looking at this contract beyond price, Minister travelling overseas will promote the best that as this product offers world-leading capabilities. Britain has to offer, including its defence exports. I hope The India deal is by no means done, but we would my hon. Friend will take reassurance from that. clearly not be here today if it had gone perfectly thus Let me stress that such activism by the Government is far. We must never allow ourselves to be in this situation founded on responsible exports, taking full account of of uncertainty. The good news is that the upcoming UK legislation on licensing and our international treaty bids will be led by Britain. The British-led consortium is obligations. Our keenness to support UK industry does well placed to take advantage of our historical ties with not translate into a cavalier policy to sell anything to Oman, the United Arab Emirates, Malaysia, Qatar and, anyone. As I shall say later, defence exports play a crucially, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The Foreign critical role in enhancing our international relationships, Secretary’s leadership in reinvigorating our vital to which my hon. Friend referred. Commonwealth bonds should also stand Typhoon in good stead. While the Minister can only respond on his Although this is an effort right across the Government Department’s behalf, in his response, will he please give and the lead for trade promotion rests with the Department an indication of the level of Government support for for Business, Innovation and Skills, the Ministry of engagement with those countries? In particular, can he Defence has been doing much of the heavy lifting to reassure me that the Ministry of Defence has played its bring practical effect to this Government policy. In that full part in enhancing relations with Oman, the United endeavour, we enjoy massive support from the Defence Arab Emirates, Malaysia, Qatar and Saudi Arabia, and and Security Organisation element of UK Trade & will continue to do so in the coming months? I also ask Investment, led by Richard Paniguian, whose team do him to encourage other relevant Departments to be as an outstanding job for us and for Britain’s defence proactive as he has been. industry. We should never be shy about supporting British With regard to Typhoon, the cross-Whitehall effort is defence exports—other countries are not. We must not brought together at the very top, as my hon. Friend allow ourselves to be caught queuing, while others are acknowledged. Must of that is down to the personal elbowing their way to the front. Let us never forget that leadership of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister the Typhoon is an exceptional aircraft, built by the himself. Ministers and senior officials meet continually finest work force in the world, and that it showcases the with a view to ensuring that industry has the appropriate very best of British engineering on a global stage. Government support to help further its various campaigns across the globe. I pay a particular tribute to our ambassadors, high commissioners and defence attachés 4.13 pm around the world for their contribution to that team The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence effort. It is, astonishingly, quite a joined up exercise. It is (Mr Gerald Howarth): This is rather earlier than I had more joined up, particularly between the Foreign and anticipated. It is an enormous pleasure to serve under Commonwealth Office and the MOD, than I ever your chairmanship, Mr Dobbin, as you and I share a anticipated when I was in opposition. number of matters in common. In my role as Minister for International Security I am delighted to respond to the debate. I congratulate Strategy, I have already visited 15 countries so far, my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies) including Chile, Brazil, United Arab Emirates, the Kingdom on securing it and on having brought with him of Saudi Arabia, Malaysia and Indonesia, pressing the re-enforcements from both sides of the House in support case for Typhoon or promoting the Type 26 global of his case. It is good to see the hon. Member for combat ship, and, always, championing the depth and Hyndburn (Graham Jones) and my hon. Friends the breadth of British industry’s capability in the defence Members for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), for and security sectors—businesses large and small. Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis) and for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace), who has just made an Graham Jones: I have a concern about some of the outstanding speech in the House in tribute to Her export orders. Some of them involve new build at the Majesty, as befits a former Army officer; he did so with factory sites of Samlesbury and Warton, but some great aplomb. involve displacements from the RAF.When the Minister Since my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde first is seeking new orders, is he seeking new build orders, or arrived in the House, he has been extraordinarily assiduous is he seeking to displace some of the Typhoons that in making the case not only for his constituency, but for were destined for the RAF? the wider aerospace industry. In that, he is following in the footsteps of his predecessor, Michael Jack, who was Mr Howarth: As I think my hon. Friend the Member always doughty champion, too. As my hon. Friend for Fylde made clear in his speech, the customers are made clear in his speech, the aerospace industry is vital overseas Governments. We do whatever we can, within to the economic life of the north-west. reasonable limits and within the constraints that apply The Government attach great importance to the role to us in providing the equipment that our own armed of exports in restoring the country’s economic health, forces require, to provide what the customer is looking following the catastrophic destruction of the public for. Clearly, new build is preferable because we understand finances by the previous Prime Minister. In line with the that it generates jobs in the United Kingdom. However, 331WH Typhoon Aircraft (Exports)7 MARCH 2012 Typhoon Aircraft (Exports) 332WH other countries are increasingly looking for technology of State for Defence is due to visit the UAE shortly. transfer and partnership. Trying to deal with that issue This morning, I talked to Alan Garwood from BAE is challenging. Systems, who returned this morning from the UAE. I I recently returned from a successful trade mission to assure all hon. Members in this Chamber that that in India, as my hon. Friend the Member for Fylde mentioned, indicative of the effort that has been put into this where I led a delegation of 25 British defence companies, campaign across the Government and industry. large and small, to promote the very best that Britain Of course, we are disappointed about the decisions has to offer. That kind of initiative is designed to made in Japan and India, but of course we fully respect demonstrate to our friends in India our serious intent to their decisions. The Indian Government have chosen build lasting partnerships with them. I am due to return not to take Typhoon into the detailed negotiations to India for its defence exposition later this month, so I phase of their medium multi-role combat aircraft will see the Indian Minister again. I will mention India competition, but the Eurofighter Typhoon consortium specifically in a moment. and the partner nations stand ready to enter into further Typhoon has already secured a number of export discussions with the Indian Government, should that contracts beyond the four partner nations, including the be their wish. Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which has ordered 72 to date, and Austria, which has ordered 15. The MOD is Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): I actively supporting DSO and working with Eurofighter congratulate the hon. Member for Fylde on securing Typhoon’s three other partner nations on a number of the debate, which is important for his constituency. other campaigns, which are at an advanced stage, including I have a genuine question for the Minister, relating to in Oman, Malaysia, the UAE and a further tranche for how optimistic we should be about the prospect of the the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The UK is in the lead in Indians changing their minds. Will he tell hon. Members responding to the requirements of Oman, Malaysia and how many contracts the British Government have got the UAE, and Her Majesty’s Government and BAE to that stage that have then been subject to such a Systems, as UK prime contractor, are also fully involved change of mind, because that is not common, is it? in those campaigns, led by our partners. The MOD’s support activity has included deployments Mr Howarth: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for of aircraft to the Dubai and Malaysian air shows. The raising an important point. India had to select from two latter engagement also took in valuable participation in bids on the basis of price, price, price—nothing else. We a multinational exercise within the five powers defensive understand that that is the procedure in India and that, arrangement. The RAF has also made platforms available unless and until negotiations with L1—the lowest bidder— to carry out impressive flight evaluation trials here in have been exhausted and do not lead to a contract, at the UK, so that the overseas customer can witness that point and only that point the Indian Government Typhoon’s superb performance at close quarters. That will be able to enter into negotiations with the other is pretty impressive stuff by any measure, but all the bidder. I assure the hon. Lady that we are maintaining a more so when viewed against the backdrop of recent close interest, but we have to respect the Indian operations. Government’s decision. Beating them about the head Earlier this month, a delegation from Malaysia visited and saying, “You made the wrong choice,” is not the the UK to undertake such a flight evaluation trial. RAF best way to win friends and influence people, least of all Coningsby hosted the Royal Malaysian air force, and a to encourage a customer to turn to a company. demanding schedule of sorties covering a wide range of We stand ready. I have to say that, in this case, the mission scenarios was carried out, supported by UK is not and never has been in the lead. The campaign maintenance demonstrations by teams on the ground. in India has been led from the outset by Germany and We were very pleased to receive Oman’s request of EADS Cassidian, not by the UK and BAE Systems. 21 January for a proposal from BAE Systems for the A great strength of Typhoon is that it is proven on supply and support of Typhoon aircraft. That represents combat operations, as we found out in Libya. I thought an important step towards the contract and is a further that it might help if I put on the record some of those sign of the strong and enduring relationship between achievements. Typhoon’s performance stood out from our two countries. My noble Friend Lord Astor and my its coalition contemporaries. Fully loaded with up to six right hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Melton air-to-air missiles, four 1,000 lb bombs, a targeting pod (Mr Duncan) are well connected in the two countries I and two under-wing fuel tanks, it was able to cruise at have just mentioned and have performed a huge service more than 500 knots and at heights in excess of 40,000 in adding to the strength of the British engagement. feet, taking it well clear of rough weather. As I mentioned, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia signed The combination of Typhoon’s long-range radar and an agreement to purchase 72 Typhoon aircraft, under data-link integration gave its pilots exceptional situational the former Government. That is welcome, and together awareness, which enabled them to control and co-ordinate with initial logistics and training packages, it is worth less well-equipped coalition assets. In six months of several billion pounds to the UK and our European deployed operations, the Typhoon force flew more than partners. We hope to provide a further tranche in future. 600 sorties for a total of just over 3,000 flying hours, In the UAE, following representations from my right without any requirement for an engine change, and hon. Friend the Prime Minister, Eurofighter Typhoon delivered more than 200 precision weapons. The aircraft’s was invited in November to submit a bid for 60 aircraft, excellent reliability resulted in no sorties lost owing to when it had been thought a deal with another contractor serviceability issues. That is a pretty outstanding record. was about to be signed. We are all working hard to Defence exports generally make an important prepare an attractive, competitive bid to one of Britain’s contribution to sustaining our defence industry, as my oldest allies. Indeed, my right hon. Friend the Secretary hon. Friend mentioned. Some 300,000 people are employed 333WH Typhoon Aircraft (Exports) 7 MARCH 2012 334WH

[Mr Gerald Howarth] Syria and Lebanon in the defence and aerospace industries, which provide Jim Dobbin (in the Chair): Before we begin, I announce tens of thousands of highly skilled jobs. In 2010, defence that I intend to call the Minister 10 minutes before the exports amounted to approximately £6 billion and made end of the debate, at 10 to 5. a significant contribution to the balance of payments. Figures from UK Trade & Investment show that in the first decade of this century the UK was, on average, the 4.30 pm second most successful exporter of legitimate defence Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): In January equipment in the world, not least in my hon. Friend’s I joined a parliamentary delegation to Lebanon, organised and my constituencies. by the Council for Arab-British Understanding, which It is not simply about money and getting cash in. As included my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester my hon. Friend implied, helping our friends to build up Central (Tony Lloyd) and the hon. Member for Gloucester their own defence and security capabilities contributes (Richard Graham). We set out to examine the effect of to regional security and helps tackle threats to UK the Syrian crisis on Lebanon, to meet with Syrians, national security closer to their source. No other industry including opposition representatives and refugees, in in this country can leverage influence so much as defence, particular in the border areas, and to speak with Lebanese which is why we are giving it such a high priority. politicians about their perspective on the crisis. I pay tribute to the UK companies, large and small, Lebanon and Syria are two countries whose geography throughout the supply chain that are participating in was once one, whose history is shared, whose ethnic and this export drive, including Rolls Royce, SELEX, Martin- sectarian make-up is similar and whose economies are Baker, MBDA and Ultra. That reminds us that the intertwined. Lebanon’s sole functioning land border is Typhoon is not just a BAE product, but encapsulates a with Syria, from where it gets many of its food imports, range of outstanding British and European technologies. while Syria depends on Lebanon for banking and financial Having paid such a tribute, I extend it to my hon. services. Lebanon is possibly the most affected of the Friend and highlight the contribution of companies in neighbouring countries by the crisis inside Syria and is Lancashire, because in calling this debate he pays tribute an example of why that crisis, in contrast to the Libya to the company and its employees for bringing so much situation perhaps, is so dangerous to the border region. back into the constituency of Fylde and the north-west The impact of the crisis is felt in many ways, at more generally. I shall, of course, forbear from saying security, political, economic, confessional and ethnic too much about the north-west, as I represent the levels, each of which I shall touch on briefly. On security, Farnborough Aerospace Consortium in my neck of the Syria presents a serious risk to Lebanon. I will come on woods, but we are complementary. to refugees later, but their numbers, which are increasing I reassure my hon. Friend that Her Majesty’s at present, will undoubtedly affect the sectarian and Government, led by my right hon. Friend the Prime political balance in Lebanon. Even before the crisis, an Minister, are working to support Typhoon exports and estimated 300,000 Syrian workers were in Lebanon, all British industry more widely, but in these straitened with families inside Syria. Many Syrian opposition times others are doing much the same and we should activists, some of whom we met, are active from within not expect an easy ride. The UK enjoys historic ties Lebanon. Many told us that it was and is unsafe for with a wide range of countries, often dating back centuries, them in Beirut, where they feel monitored by supporters greater than any other nation can claim. Our strategy is of the Syrian regime. to revitalise those ties, both in the interests of our We visited Tripoli, and sectarian clashes were clearly mutual defence and regional stability and to the benefit a possibility, especially along the fault line between the of our outstanding aerospace industry, of which this Sunni and Alawi areas—sadly, subsequently, three deaths country can be truly proud. resulted in February. The security situation has not been helped by Syrian interference in Lebanon; there has been a series of kidnappings in the Bekaa valley in recent weeks, as a result of the security vacuum in the border area, some apparently for money but others clearly political. I ask the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the hon. Member for North West Norfolk (Mr Bellingham), what representations the British Government have made to the Lebanese Government about their responsibilities towards Syrians living in Lebanon. In Lebanon, we heard many unsubstantiated accusations of al-Qaeda activity in the Bekaa valley, but many Lebanese to whom we spoke were dubious. Has the Minister received reports of such activity, and what is his assessment of what is happening in the Bekaa valley? Politically, Lebanese politics is polarised into two groups, those who support Assad and those who do not, referred to as the coalitions of 8 March and of 14 March. Hezbollah is the most powerful force in Lebanon and remains supportive of Assad. Critical questions that everyone was asking when we were in 335WH Syria and Lebanon7 MARCH 2012 Syria and Lebanon 336WH

Lebanon were about how strong that support is and are in southern Beirut. The total number of refugees, what Hezbollah’s position would be as and when the according to the UNHCR, now exceeds 15,000 and is crisis in Syria deepens. I ask the Minister whether the growing fast. According to Save the Children, about Government will sanction discussions with the 8 March one quarter of those refugees are children under the age parliamentary bloc about the Syria crisis. It is important of four. for us to persuade that group of the advantages to We visited Tripoli and Wadi Khaled, close to the Lebanon of not becoming directly involved in the internal border, where refugees were being hosted. Their stories affairs of its neighbour. confirmed the litany of horrors that we have all heard concerning the events in Syria and in Homs in particular. Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): I There were no refugee camps, and people were surviving congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate in abandoned homes and other buildings, frequently on this important issue. On the position of Syrians in with no heating and inadequate shelter. They were Lebanon, there is an assertion that, predominantly, the dependent on Lebanese families, some of whom were security forces in Lebanon are very much unsympathetic relatives, who were already incredibly deprived, and had to those opposing the Assad regime. Did he see evidence lost out due to the absence of cross-border trade. of that? The Red Cross told us that it could cope with perhaps another 2,000 refugees before pressing the panic button. Mr Love: The picture is, indeed, complex. Broadly That was in January, and during the two months since speaking, the 14 March coalition is opposed to Assad then that figure has been overtaken. Many of the refugees and 8 March is broadly sympathetic. Clearly, Hezbollah were entering Lebanon via the Bekaa valley, a Hezbollah- has strong connections with the Assad regime and, if controlled, Shia-dominated area. That was, and is creating we are to take its views at face value, it places a great tensions. All the refugees were fearful of the Lebanese deal of importance on maintaining that regime, but we security forces, and many were too scared to register heard conflicting views about who was standing where with the UN, fearing that their details would be shared exactly. As the situation in Syria deteriorates, we are yet with the Lebanese authorities. to see what will happen in Lebanon, and that is one of The UNHCR was operating in far from perfect the issues that I am raising in the debate. Does the conditions regarding the status of the Syrian refugees. Minister agree, if I may put it this way, that there are all Under international law, they are clearly refugees, and the ingredients for potential civil conflict and tension deserve all the rights and protections that go with that within Lebanon, the tragic history of which we all status. However, Lebanon has always been deeply sensitive know? about refugees, and prefers to refer to them as Syrians On minorities, there are almost 300,000 registered fleeing the unrest. The Lebanese Government would Palestinian refugees, living mainly in 12 UN refugee not recognise them, nor grant them their legitimate camps and some 20 unofficial camps. We visited two rights; for example, they have not issued them with camps during our visit to Lebanon, and it became refugee IDs. As a result, they cannot leave the border painfully clear that the Syria crisis has polarised opinion areas. Our understanding from the UNHCR is that in an already difficult situation, so the Syrian problems immediate additional funding is needed to cope with are not helping the future of the Palestinian people the crisis. What assistance is the UK providing to UNHCR? living in Lebanon. There is also minority solidarity; Will the Minister consider providing further assistance Lebanese Alawis are of course concerned about the fate as a matter of urgency to help with the looming crisis in of their Syrian counterparts, as are the Druze, the that country? Sunnis and the Christians. Recently, even the Maronite What did the Minister make of the recent comments patriarch was moved to support the Assad regime, by the Lebanese President that the influx of some claiming—I have to say, somewhat ludicrously—that it Syrian families into Lebanon as a result of the turbulence was the most democratic Government in the region. does not constitute a major problem because they can Similarly in Turkey, the Turkish authorities fear the “stay with their relatives”? He continued: effect of the Syrian crisis on their Arab Alawi population “We are treating the Syrians who fled as families, as relatives and their Kurdish community. and not as refugees.” The two countries are somewhat dependent economically. Do the Government accept that they are genuine refugees? Sanctions are hitting Lebanon as well as Syria, and What discussions have there been with the Lebanese tourism is down. Many of the communities that we authorities on their responsibilities to recognise and visited close to the border were dependent on smuggling, protect refugees, and accord them their full rights under and those communities are suffering the substantial international law? What plans have the Government additional burden of hosting the refugees. Does the made with their international partners about the possibility Minister agree that the international community should of a humanitarian disaster in Syria if the economy look at how to assist Lebanon in handling the economic there crashes, the security situation deteriorates even impact of the crisis in Syria? further, and the regime falls, which is a real possibility, The most important consideration is the refugees. leaving chaos in its wake? Have the Government discussed The UN is reporting that, following the crisis in Homs contingency plans with their Lebanese counterparts? In and the shelling of other areas in Syria close to the particular, has the Minister raised the issue of humanitarian Lebanese border, between 1,000 and 2,000 refugees are access from Syria to Lebanon? What support can the trying to cross the border. That is in addition to the EU and the UK give to the UNHCR to meet its needs some 7,000 refugees already registered with the United should that happen? Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in the north The situation in Syria is critical and deteriorating, and the many thousands unregistered in Lebanon; the and that is having a significant impact on Lebanon. I UN estimates that around 1,500 vulnerable Syrian refugees hope that the Minister will be able to assure the House 337WH Syria and Lebanon7 MARCH 2012 Syria and Lebanon 338WH

[Mr Love] towards a better future, how to get rid of the vile Assad regime in Damascus, and how to move the whole region that the Government are not only monitoring the situation to a better place. in that country, but are ready to take action to support those in need at the present time. 4.47 pm The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign 4.43 pm and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Henry Bellingham): I congratulate the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr Love) Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): I congratulate on securing an Adjournment debate on this important my hon. Friend the Member for Edmonton (Mr Love) subject. He is extremely knowledgeable and experienced. on obtaining this debate. It is absolutely the right time As he explained, Syria and Lebanon have an intertwined for the House to be discussing the issue in greater depth history, and what happens in each affects the other. The than we have been able to do so far. The humanitarian Assad regime has long played an unhelpful role in situation in Syria is clearly of enormous international Lebanon. In addition to ensuring a peaceful transition concern, and is frankly nothing short of outrageous, in Syria and ending the atrocities there as soon as which is an overused word. possible, an important priority of this Government is to My hon. Friend and I met a young boy in hospital in ensure that stability in Lebanon is not another victim of the north of Lebanon, who had been severely injured by Assad’s repression. what was probably a nail bomb used by the Syrian Let me first address what is happening in Syria, and authorities, perhaps the armed forces, to make war on what we are doing about it. 15 March will mark the children, in this case on a child of four or five. The passing of the first anniversary of the Syrian regime’s Syrians’ medical skills saved his leg, and that is a great sustained and brutal violence against its own people. In triumph, but it belies the fact that many other children the last year, the UN has estimated that more than have been killed in the conflict. The plight of refugees in 7,500 people, including 380 children, have been killed. Lebanon is genuinely pitiful. My hon. Friend made the As the hon. Members for Edmonton and for Manchester important point that the Lebanese Government do not Central (Tony Lloyd) said, the suffering is appalling, accord refugees any form of proper status under and the suffering of so many children is atrocious. international law, so they are outwith what international As well as the large number of people who have been law dictates they should do. I again ask the Minister killed, the Syrian regime is engaging in an horrific whether it is possible to exert pressure on the Lebanese campaign of repression through widespread and systematic authorities to reconsider the matter, because that would human rights violations, including the torture and rape make a material difference to the way in which refugees of men, women and children. In recent days, much of can be treated in Lebanon. the focus has been on Homs, where the Syrian regime As my hon. Friend said, many refugees in Lebanon has conducted a campaign of indiscriminate shelling are housed with family and friends, but sometimes with and violence against the civilian population. Reports total strangers. We saw families with many children from Paul Conroy and other brave journalists demonstrate packed into small rooms, sometimes without fathers, the appalling human suffering inflicted by the regime. and often without proper access to financial support. The Syrian Government must bring an immediate end Their plight is difficult, because many refugees are not to violence across the whole of Syria, in Homs, Hama, registered with the UNHCR. Of the 15,000 or 16,000 Damascus, Deraa and elsewhere. refugees in Lebanon, perhaps only half are registered with the UNHCR, and depend on assistance from Rehman Chishti: The Minister will know that the groups such as Save the Children, or perhaps friends European Union imposed crippling sanctions on the and relatives, but the problem of what aid is available to Assad regime in order to stop the killing and repression. the UNHCR and its assessment of need is a real one. I Is he concerned that to a certain extent Syria has been hope that the Minister can throw some light on what able to wriggle out of those sanctions by working with the international community is doing in that context. banks and financial institutions in Lebanon? The other issue that I want to put on the record is the Mr Bellingham: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for need to recognise that what is taking place in Syria is raising that, and I shall cover it in some detail in a enormously important in its own right, but may also moment. As I understand it, 114 individuals and 39 have a hugely destabilising effect on Lebanon, a country entities are now subjected to asset freezes and travel that has known massive destabilisation for many years. bans. The latest round of sanctions, which was agreed at Frankly, the region cannot afford to have Lebanon the end of February, included freezing the assets of the plunged again into crisis, because that would have an Central Bank of Syria and restricting the regime’s access impact not only on Lebanon, but on its neighbours, to the gold and precious metal markets. We will look including Israel, and the capacity for a resolution of the into my hon. Friend’s point about Lebanon and Lebanese Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and so on. The issues are banks that may also operate in Syria, and I will make much more than those that apply to a country that in sure that I write to him about that. recent times has received relatively little attention in our We are gravely concerned about the deteriorating media. humanitarian situation in Syria, and the actions of the The humanitarian crisis and political destabilisation regime are making it incredibly difficult for humanitarian are extremely toxic, and I hope that the Minister can agencies to respond. The UK is doing all it can to provide some assurance that at international level the address the humanitarian situation in that challenging situation in Lebanon is at least part of the consideration context. We are providing funding, as well as stepping as we rightly debate internationally how to push Syria up political pressure on the Syrian Government to 339WH Syria and Lebanon7 MARCH 2012 Syria and Lebanon 340WH allow unimpeded access to the UN and aid agencies, a nations to co-ordinate diplomatic and economic pressure full assessment of civilian needs, and the delivery of on the Syrian regime through the Friends of Syria vital relief goods to all those affected by violence. group and the EU. We fully support the UN emergency relief co-ordinator, Let me now look at how the current violence within Baroness Amos, in her plans to visit Syria to negotiate Syria risks destabilising the region. As the hon. Member for humanitarian access and gain a better assessment of for Edmonton made clear, the despicable actions of the needs on the ground. I was fortunate enough to meet Syrian regime inside Syria impact on Syria’s neighbours. Baroness Amos last Monday in New York. She is now Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Turkey are all affected by in Syria and we urge the Syrian Government to allow the continuing bloodshed, and the consequent flow of her full access to travel safely and freely in the region. refugees has potential implications for their security President Assad continues to exert brutal military and economies. Lebanon’s historical, confessional, and force against his own people, and he is responsible for economic links to Syria make it particularly vulnerable. the appalling situation in Syria. We believe that he has The number of refugees fleeing violence in Syria to lost legitimacy and can no longer claim to lead his safety in Lebanon is steadily increasing. Determining country. As the Government have repeatedly made clear, the numbers, however, is difficult. The UNHCR has he should step aside in the best interests of Syria and registered at least 7,200 Syrians near the northern border the unity of its people. of Lebanon, but there are undoubtedly many others. It is vital that those committing these awful crimes We estimate that the real figure is closer to 20,000, with are held accountable for their actions. We have sent a further 5,000 unregistered people likely to be in the experts to the region to help gather and document northern border area and Tripoli; 5,000 in the Bekaa evidence of human rights violations and abuses, and valley; 2,000 in the southern suburbs of Beirut; and they will work closely with UN agencies, NGOs and 600 in the southern city of Saida. The Qatari Red other key organisations. The UK fully supports the Crescent has said recently that it believes a total figure Arab League’s efforts to end the violence in Syria and of 50,000 Syrian refugees is credible. That is a huge its plan for a Syrian-led political solution to the crisis. figure, and shows the sheer scale involved. The hon. The establishment of a Friends of Syria group of over Members for Edmonton and for Manchester Central 60 countries is a further important step towards putting made an important point about displaced Syrians who in place a political plan that addresses the concerns of have found refuge with relatives or host families, and I all Syrians, regardless of their religion or ethnicity. We note the concerns that such arrangements might reach also welcome the appointment of former United Nations the limits of sustainability if those numbers continue to Secretary-General Kofi Annan as the joint special envoy increase. We have regularly urged the Lebanese Government of the UN and the Arab League on the Syrian crisis. to continue their work with international agencies to The UK extends to him its full support, and stands provide shelter and protection for Syrian refugees in ready to provide assistance to his team in its vital work Lebanon. Generally speaking, the Lebanese Government to bring an end to the violence in Syria. are responding effectively in a difficult political context. In the EU, the UK has been at the forefront of I was asked what the UK is doing to support the delivering 12 rounds of sanctions targeted on those international effort, with particular reference to the supporting or benefiting from the regime, and those UNHCR. We have doubled core funding to the UNHCR associated with them. I will not repeat what I said to my this year to help it carry out its work globally, including hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham in the middle east. The Department for International (Rehman Chishti), but we have made a start on restrictive Development provided £39 million for 2011-12, and we measures, and it may be that further such measures will remain in close contact with UNHCR as this fast-moving be required. situation develops. A DFID humanitarian adviser has been deployed to the region to get a better understanding of events on the ground and identify ways in which the Tony Lloyd: The Minister can rightly claim that the UK might be able to help. Government have been at the forefront of tightening the sanctions regime against Syria. Would it be possible We will work closely with the Lebanese Government to begin to identify not only those at the very top such to improve conditions for Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. as President Assad, but those around him who have Importantly, that includes work to improve the governance taken part in war crimes? If we could begin to identify and security arrangements in the refugee camps. To that such people by name, that would bring pressure to bear end, the UK committed £117 million of non-earmarked on senior players in the Assad regime. funding for 2007-11 to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East. Mr Bellingham: I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. We need to identify those people, and we Mr Love: I am listening carefully to the Minister’s will ensure that expert help is available for that work of speech. One recent concern was about the actions of the identification and analysis. As I said earlier, those who Lebanese authorities in trying to restrict the numbers of have committed these terrible crimes will be brought to people coming across from Syria, particularly in the justice. Homs area. We should be urging the Lebanese authorities to open up humanitarian access, should conditions in Last week, the deteriorating security situation and Syria deteriorate. Will the Government make a commitment risks posed to our embassy staff led the Foreign Secretary to urge the Lebanese authorities in that direction? to withdraw our staff from Syria. That decision in no way reduces our commitment to active diplomacy and to maintain pressure on the Assad regime to end the Mr Bellingham: We will certainly look at that point violence. We will continue to work closely with other and I will take the hon. Gentleman’s remarks on board. 341WH Syria and Lebanon7 MARCH 2012 Syria and Lebanon 342WH

[Mr Bellingham] embassy remains active in supporting UK companies to play a greater role in Lebanon’s ambitious plans to The UK is continuing to look into reports of limited develop its infrastructure. As part of the prosperity Hezbollah involvement in Syria. Any Hezbollah support agenda, I assure the hon. Member for Edmonton that for the Syrian regime’s ongoing brutal repression would we are working hard at improving our bilateral trade. be a huge mistake and counter to Lebanese interests of. Indeed, we have made a commitment to increase such Hezbollah’s rhetorical support for President Assad has trade by 15%, year on year, over the next two years. exposed the hypocrisy of its supposed commitment to That is what we are doing to try and bring wealth and the poor and oppressed, and significantly undermined prosperity to the people of Lebanon. its credibility across the region. We urge all parties in I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising this important Lebanon with any influence over the Assad regime to issue, and if there are points that I have not covered, I use that influence to seek an early end to the repression. will write to him. The UK is committed to ending the As has been expressed, the impact of events in Syria bloodshed in Syria, to preventing it from destabilising on the Lebanese economy should not be overlooked. Lebanon, and to helping the peoples of that region We are working closely with the Lebanese Government realise their aspirations for a more a democratic, peaceful to support economic reform, including offering support and prosperous future. on regulatory processes to ensure long-term prosperity Question put and agreed to. in Lebanon. UK companies have been involved in assisting the Lebanese Government to explore potential oil and 4.59 pm gas resources in the country’s maritime waters, and our Sitting adjourned. 59WS Written Ministerial Statements7 MARCH 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 60WS

the House that these figures have been reached over Written Ministerial three weeks ahead of schedule and significantly earlier than has been achieved in any previous year. Statements As at 5 March, RPA had made SPS 2011 payments totalling £1.651 billion (95.4%) to 100,605 eligible claimants Wednesday 7 March 2012 (96%). The Agency will be making contact shortly with claimants who are not due a payment, for example because they no longer have entitlements. For the remaining CABINET OFFICE 3,500 or so farmers, the focus continues to be on validating claims and making related payments as soon as possible. Cabinet Committee List Where that has not been possible by the end of March, RPA will contact those affected to explain the position on their claim, including any corrective work and payment The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster adjustments related to previous scheme years. That General (Mr Francis Maude): Today I am publishing an work is important to ensure legacy issues are addressed updated Cabinet Committee list. I have placed a copy of and so help provide the platform for further improvements the new list in the Libraries of both Houses. in payment performance for the 2012 scheme.

DEFENCE HEALTH

Medical Assessment Programme NHS Pension Scheme

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence The Minister of State, Department of Health (Mr Simon (Mr Andrew Robathan): The Ministry of Defence Medical Burns): The National Health Service Pension Scheme Assessment Programme (MAP) will move from facilities and Injury Benefits (Amendment) Regulations 2012, at St Thomas’ Hospital, London, to the Reinforcements laid on 5 March 2012, bring into force increases to Training and Mobilisation Centre (RTMC) at Chilwell contribution rates for members of the NHS Pension in October 2012. The MAP offers mental health assessments Scheme for England and Wales. The increases apply to to ex-service personnel who have deployed on operations service from 1 April 2012 and continue throughout the since 1982 and have mental health problems related to financial year. their military service. At the spending review 2010, the Government announced The House is aware of the report published by my increases to member contribution rates in public service hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire pension schemes saving £2.8 billion a year by 2014-15, (Dr Murrison) for making improvements in mental to be phased in from 1 April 2012. The contributions health care provision for service personnel and veterans. are to be increased progressively with protection for the We fully support the report’s recommendation that the lower paid and to minimise instances where members MAP service continues while NHS mental health services choose to opt out of the scheme. are further developed across the UK, and remain committed Last year the Department consulted on a structure of to doing all we can to help veterans with mental health tiered contribution rates that meet these requirements. problems related to their military service and to making The consultation opened on 28 July 2011 and closed on improvements to the services we provide. 21 October 2011, and nearly 9,000 responses were received. There are significant advantages in collocating the The Department revised the original consultation proposal MAP with the RTMC at Chilwell. This will provide a so that a greater number of lower and middle earners more structured professional environment for the MAP are protected from an increase in 2012-13. physician; benefits for clinical governance and flexibility The Government remain committed to securing in from working alongside the reserves mental healthcare full the spending review savings in 2013-14 and 2014-15 service; and improved cost effectiveness from sharing by further increasing member contributions in public the facilities already in place at Chilwell. This move is service pension schemes in addition to the 2012-13 rises. also expected to benefit the majority of veterans as The Department will consult formally on proposals in demographic data indicate that a high percentage are due course. being referred from the north and the midlands. These regulations also introduce new administration requirements to support implementation of taxation ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS provisions within the Finance Act 2011. Further, the regulations alter scheme transfer rules in order to exclude Single Payment Scheme the Isle of Man Unified Public Service Pension Scheme from 1 April 2012, as this new scheme will be incompatible with the terms of the Public Sector Transfer Club. The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr James Paice): In my statement HOME DEPARTMENT of 11 January 2012, Official Report, column 16 WS, I explained that the Rural Payments Agency (RPA) had Police and Crime Commissioners (Pay) met its first performance indicator for the 2011 Single Payment Scheme (SPS.) The Agency’s second performance indicator for the scheme was to pay 95% of both the The Secretary of State for the Home Department number of eligible claimants and of the total estimated (Mrs Theresa May): On 3 November 2011, I placed a fund value by the end of March. I can now confirm to copy of the Senior Salary’s Review Body (SSRB) report 61WS Written Ministerial Statements7 MARCH 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 62WS and recommendations on police and crime commissioners The Council will begin in mixed committee with pay in the House Library. On that day, I undertook to Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland (non-EU give the report and the recommendations thorough Schengen states). There will be presentations by the consideration and report my final decision in good time Commission and Frontex on illegal immigration, continuing to allow potential PCC candidates to be clear on what the Council discussions on this issue under the previous they can expect their salary to be. presidency. The UK supports increased efforts to combat I would like to thank the SSRB for its work. I believe illegal flows across the external border and within the that the report sets out clearly the justification for its EU, and welcomes proposals for a presidency “roadmap” proposals and I intend to accept all but one of the for a more coherent response to these flows. In particular, recommendations made by the SSRB. the UK believes it is vital that the EU response includes action to tackle fraud and abuse of free movement Recommendation 1 on PCC pay structure has taken rights, as well as consolidation of efforts at the Greek- into account the issues I consider to be important and, Turkish border, closer partnership working with Turkey, overall, I believe a sensible and appropriate approach and work further “upstream” in countries of origin and has been taken. With regard to the salary range which is transit using the tools of the EU’s global approach to the subject of recommendation 2, the report has made migration. the case for a proposed PCC salary range of £65,000— £100,000. While salary itself should not be a key The presidency will present its Council conclusions motivational factor for these important new roles, the which aim to strengthen political governance over Schengen SSRB has agreed that these are important new posts. I co-operation through regular political and strategic believe their salary range ensures the right balance in discussions at ministerial level in mixed committee format. terms of attracting suitable candidates while at the The use of mixed committee format will allow the UK same time addressing the fact that public funding is to participate in discussions which affect the control of constrained. illegal immigration flows that impact on the UK. The Recommendation 3 relates to the issue of performance- UK supports this proposal and the list of suggested related pay and I agree with the SSRB’s recommendation topics for inclusion in the Commission’s periodic reports. that it would not be appropriate for PCCs to receive The UK will use these debates to call for stronger performance-related pay. The performance of PCCs practical co-operation on measures to protect the external should be judged solely by the electorate. border and prevent illegal immigration. Recommendation 4 considers the need to reduce the There will be an update from the presidency on salary of a PCC pro-rata for any PCCs that do not attempts to secure agreement on the date for the removal carry out the role on a full-time basis. Having reflected of controls on Bulgaria and Romania’s sea and air on the advice put forward by the SSRB, I do not borders with countries in the Schengen area. This issue propose to accept this recommendation. will also be discussed at the preceding European Council. We do not expect a vote. We understand the intention behind it, but we believe that the best way forward is for PCCs to be clear with Next there will be an update on the second generation their electorate about what outside interests they have Schengen Information System (SIS II). The UK will and for the electorate to judge them accordingly. Last continue to reiterate its support for the continuation of year, I laid before Parliament a specified information the current SIS II project. The Commission has committed order 2011 which sets out what information we expect to deliver the central element of SIS II in early 2013. PCCs to publish in order to ensure that they are sufficiently There will also be a presentation by the presidency on transparent on critical issues. I intend to ensure that a the EU conference on innovative border management, PCC declares any paid and/or unpaid interests that may which the UK attended in Copenhagen on 2 and 3 February conflict with their role or affect the amount of time that 2012. they will be devoting to it. There will be a discussion during lunch on combating I also intend to accept the SSRB’s last two organised crime through multi-disciplinary and recommendations. Recommendation 5 relates to carrying administrative approaches. out an independent annual review of PCC salaries and Recommendation 6 relates to completing a full review The main Council will start with a “state of play” of PCC roles and their remuneration in the third year of report by the presidency on the Common European office in order to make pay recommendations to take Asylum System. This will set out the progress that has effect from the second round of elections in 2016. been made on the package to date: negotiations continue on the reception conditions directive and the Dublin III By settling the pay structure as early as possible, I Regulation, with the development of a new article to hope to ensure that potential candidates have plenty of enshrine the “early warning mechanism’, which was the time to consider their respective positions when deciding subject of discussions in JHA Councils at the end of whether they should stand. last year. The presidency will present draft Council conclusions Justice and Home Affairs Council which set out the outcome of discussions on solidarity and practical co-operation that took place at the informal Council meeting in January. They are intended to provide The Secretary of State for the Home Department a framework or “tool box” for practical co-operation (Mrs Theresa May): The Justice and Home Affairs within the EU, focusing in large part on maximising the (JHA) Council is due to be held on 8 March in Brussels. opportunities presented by existing arrangements. This I will attend on behalf of the United Kingdom. As the is the first time the Council has been asked to consider provisional agenda stands, the following items will be the conclusions but there is a high degree of support for discussed. the direction they set out. The UK strongly supports 63WS Written Ministerial Statements7 MARCH 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 64WS the conclusions as currently drafted. They present the Liz Sayce made a number of recommendations to improve right balance on key issues including that the focus of and expand Access to Work. We accept all of Liz “solidarity” should be practical co-operation between Sayce’s recommendations on Access to Work, subject to member states based on their individual responsibility further co-production with disabled people and employers to build migration management capacity; strong references to ensure that we get these right. I can confirm today to the “early warning mechanism” to be included in the that we have already implemented a number of these new Dublin regulation in place of a suspension clause; recommendations, including targeted marketing to small and an explicit confirmation of the lack of support for employers and under-represented groups. I can also any mandatory intra-EU relocation of beneficiaries of announce today that we will make an extra £15 million international protection. available for Access to Work in this spending review Next there will be a presentation by the Commission, period. the European Asylum Support Office and Frontex on In addition, we will be conducting a further period of the Greek action plan (GAP) of August 2010. The GAP co-production with disabled people to identify how best outlines Greece’s proposals to build its capability to we can support independent living through achieving manage migration, including through the creation of an the full potential of disabled people in the labour market. improved asylum service which complies with EU This will build upon the co-productive approach to legislation. Legislation has now been adopted in Greece developing the disability strategy. to provide a new institutional framework by creating I have agreed that the funding for residential training three new agencies (Asylum Service, Appeals Authority colleges should be extended until the end of the academic and Initial Reception Service). However, the implementation year 2012/13, to allow time to determine and implement of these reforms has been significantly hindered by future changes. They provide support into employment systemic deficiencies in the Greek Administration and that is clearly valued, although costly, and we need to constraints imposed by austerity measures. The UK take further time to consider options for the future. supports the GAP and has a vested interest in its success, not least because a weak border with Turkey I have assessed very carefully the needs of the Remploy presents a security risk. Up to 80% of illegal migrants workers, as well as the needs of the 6.9 million disabled enter the EU through Greece, and many of these may people of working age in Great Britain—who are, of travel on to the UK. Without significant improvements course, the vast majority—who could benefit from greater to the asylum system, use of the Dublin regulation to specialist employment support to find and retain work. return asylum seekers to Greece will remain suspended. The responses to the consultation on the Sayce review But the Government are concerned by the slow progress strongly endorsed the idea that money to support disabled of reform and the limited evidence of the impact of EU people into employment should follow individuals not support, including that provided through the European institutions and that Remploy factories should be set Asylum Support Office. Members of the Council are free from Government control. likely to discuss whether any further support would be They also supported the view the Government-funded appropriate and will push to secure further political will segregated employment is not consistent with an objective from Greece to bring about meaningful reform. of disability equality. Under any other business the presidency will provide This is about equality and fairness for disabled people. information on current legislative proposals. Roughly 2,200 disabled people are supported by Remploy’s enterprise businesses, at a cost each year of around a fifth of the total budget for specialist disability employment programmes. Despite significant investment in Remploy WORK AND PENSIONS enterprise businesses the cost of each employment place remains at £25,000 per year, compared with an average Disability Employment Support Access to Work award of £2,900. The Sayce review did acknowledge the valuable work undertaken by Remploy’s employment services in supporting tens of thousands of The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work disabled people into work. Given the significant additional and Pensions (Maria Miller): Today I am publishing a number of unemployed disabled people who could be command paper, “Disability Employment Support: supported to access the mainstream labour market, up Fulfilling Potential”, which sets out the Government’s to 8,000 people in this spending review, I have decided strategy for specialist disability employment programmes that it is important to accept and implement the Sayce and includes a summary of the responses to the public review recommendations on Remploy. This will be done consultation on the Sayce review. in two stages. Our strategy reaffirms the Government’s commitment In stage 1, the Government will reduce its current to enable disabled people to achieve their full potential subsidy to Remploy from the beginning of the new and support independent living, something at the heart financial year so that we cease funding factories which of UN convention commitments. As a result of its make significant losses year after year and restrict funding importance and despite severe financial constraints, I to those factories which might have a prospect of a have continued to protect spending on specialist disability viable future without Government subsidy. Remploy’s employment programmes over this spending review, board was asked to consider the impact of this decision and I am determined to help more disabled people enter before it was made. and remain in work. Crucially, savings from the policy As a result of the decision to reduce current funding changes I am announcing today will be used for more the Remploy board is proposing to close (subject to effective and proven employment programmes such as consultation with their unions) by the end of this year Access to Work to benefit many more disabled people. the 36 factory sites (of 54) which it considers are unlikely 65WS Written Ministerial Statements7 MARCH 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 66WS to be able to achieve independent financial viability. support for up to 18 months to help with the transition Remploy will shortly begin collective consultation with from Government-funded sheltered employment to its trade unions and the management forums on the mainstream employment. This support will also include proposed closure of these factories and on the potential access to a personal budget to aid that transition. We compulsory redundancy of all the 1,752 people, including will also be working with employers and the Employers 1,518 disabled people, at these sites and associated with Forum on Disability to look to offer targeted work them. opportunities for displaced staff. We will also establish a Some factory sites, the CCTV business and Remploy community support fund to provide grants to local employment services appear to be more likely to be able disability organisations to support Remploy employees to continue to operate free from government subsidy as to make the transition from sheltered to mainstream advocated by Sayce. In stage 2, the Department for employment. Work and Pensions will work with the Remploy board If, after reform of Remploy is complete, it leaves to identify whether these potentially viable Remploy Government, I anticipate that the Remploy pension businesses can be freed from Government control, including scheme will run on as a closed scheme. The accrued by way of employee-led commercial exit and/or open benefits of members will be fully protected. market sales, and how this might be achieved. The Government’s commitment is to support many more disabled people into work, in line with their I recognise that this announcement will be difficult aspirations, at a time of severe financial restraint. The news for the staff in Remploy factories and understand changes I am announcing today will enable us to support that they have will have concerns about the future. As thousands more disabled people into work, including part of collective consultation, the Remploy board will through significant improvements to the successful Access consider all proposals to avoid compulsory redundancy. to Work programme. I believe that this strategy better We are absolutely committed to supporting Remploy fits the needs and aspirations of the 21st century—and employees with an £8 million comprehensive personalised a world where disabled people participate fully in the package of support for all those who are affected by mainstream not in Government-funded segregated jobs. these proposals. Any disabled member of staff who is I will place a list of the factories that will be the made redundant will receive an offer of individualised subject of consultation in the Library of the House. 731W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 732W Written Answers to Capital Allowances Chris White: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what the cost to the public purse was of capital Questions allowances in each of the last three years; [98222] (2) what the cost to the public purse was of the Wednesday 7 March 2012 annual investment allowance in each of the last three years. [98221] Mr Gauke: Information on the costs of capital allowances and the annual investment allowance in 2010-11 and 2011-12 is available in HMRC published statistics: TREASURY http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_expenditures/table1-5.pdf The cost of capital allowances in 2009-10 was £19 billion Bank of England: Scotland (of which the annual investment allowance accounted for £1.5 billion. Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Capital Gains Tax whether any preparations have been made for any change Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Chancellor of the in the functions or remit of the Bank of England as Exchequer what estimate he has made of the additional they apply to Scotland in the event of Scotland leaving revenue raised as a result of changes to capital gains the UK. [95771] tax since May 2010. [98104] Danny Alexander: The Government are clear that Mr Gauke: Estimates of additional capital gains tax Scotland benefits from being part of UK and the UK revenue resulting from changes since May 2010 have benefits from having Scotland within it. The Government been published in the summer Budget 2010, Budget are not making plans for independence as we are confident 2011 and autumn statement 2011 reports. Estimates that people in Scotland will continue to support the from these publications for each of the measures are United Kingdom in any referendum. given in the following table:

£ million 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 2015-16 2016-17

Summer Budget 2010: Capital gains tax: increase rate for 0 725 825 850 925 1— 1— higher rate taxpayers to 28% and increase in Entrepreneurs’ Relief to £5 million from 23 June 2010

Budget 2011: Capital gains tax increase n/a 0 -50 -70 -90 -100 1— Entrepreneurs’ relief lifetime limit to £10 million

Autumn statement 2011: Seed Enterprise Investment n/a 0 0 -50 -25 -20 -20 Scheme and CGT holiday for investments made into the scheme in 2012-132

Autumn statement 2011: Freeze annual exempt amount for n/a0 025252530 2012-13 1 No figures given 2 The cost of the SEIS scheme is mainly income tax relief.

Capital Gains Tax: Second Homes an individual’s only or main residence allows an individual who owns more than one residence to nominate which Tim Farron: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer property should qualify for that relief. what steps HM Revenue and Customs is taking to Where compliance risks are identified HMRC will ensure that all second homeowners who are liable to pursue the appropriate inquiries. pay capital gains tax do so. [98537] Excise Duties: Alcoholic Drinks Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs do not have information on whether any property in the UK is or is Mark Field: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer not a “second home”. In addition the relief that grants what measures are in place to regulate bonded exemption from capital gains tax (CGT) on disposals of warehouses to prevent alcohol duty fraud. [98164] 733W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 734W

Miss Chloe Smith: In order to operate, a warehouse- Miss Chloe Smith: Spirits duty stamps were introduced keeper and excise (bonded) warehouse must first be in 2006 as part of HMRC’s strategy to address alcohol approved by HM Revenue and Customs as a secure duty fraud. Estimated revenue losses from spirits fraud place for the deposit and storage of dutiable goods. were £320 million in that year, and reduced to £130 million Warehouse-keepers are required to provide a security, by the end of 2009-10. However, it has not been possible guaranteeing against the loss of goods in warehouse, to isolate the specific effect of duty stamps on fraud as and must submit monthly returns and declarations it is a single element of a co-ordinated overall strategy. accounting for stock, movements to other warehouses, A renewed ‘Tackling Alcohol Fraud’ strategy was and volumes of goods released for consumption. introduced in 2010-11 targeting all forms of alcohol To safeguard against unsuitable persons gaining access fraud. In its first full year of operation the impact of to undutied goods, rigorous background checks are HMRC enforcement activity across all alcohol products conducted, and applicants are required to submit business increased by over 50%. The effectiveness of the strategy plans. HMRC conduct pre-approval interviews and has recently been reviewed by the National Audit Office. conditions of operation may be set. Approvals may also The Government will consult shortly on new legislative be revoked or varied at any time for reasonable cause, measures to reduce the supply of alcohol products to such as evidence of duty fraud. fraudsters and limit opportunities for the sale of illicit Approved excise warehouses are subject to a programme goods, for example, by cash and carry warehouses into of risk-based compliance checking. retail supply chains. The consultation will explore a Where duty fraud is identified, the warehouse-keeper range of measures including those currently applying to may be subject to criminal prosecution and/or heavy spirits. The costs to the alcohol industry of any additional financial penalties. HMRC will seek to recover duty legislation to protect the legitimate alcohol trade will be losses and may issue civil penalties, in addition, up to assessed as part of the consultation process. the equivalent duty value. Government Departments: Procurement

Mark Field: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer David Simpson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many successful (a) criminal and (b) civil what measures his Department has in place to ensure prosecutions have been brought following steps taken value-for-money for all procurement; and what savings by HM Revenue and Customs to tackle alcohol duty have been identified by those procedures in the last year fraud; and what the value was of the duty recouped for which figures are available. [98093] from such actions. [98165] Miss Chloe Smith: HM Treasury has established new Miss Chloe Smith: 12 criminal prosecution cases involving tougher internal procedures to ensure value for money alcohol fraud were completed with 16 defendants convicted is achieved for all procurements. It has, for example, in 2009-10, (the last year when figures are available), No implemented the Cabinet Office’s strict controls on prosecutions are brought in civil cases. consultancy spend to ensure that spend is only incurred HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) focuses criminal when there is a robust business case and the work investigations on the impact that can be achieved by cannot be undertaken by civil servants. Also, in line closing down the criminal organisations responsible for with Government policy and to benefit from public fraud, rather than bringing a large number of small sector buying power, HM Treasury is centralising common value convictions. HMRC continue to enhance the impact commodity procurement through contracts awarded of its work as can be seen from recent convictions and and managed by the Government Procurement Service. significant sentences for the operators of an excise HM Treasury not specifically record savings secured warehouse. through its procurement process. However, the overall The estimated value of the alcohol duty protected as procurement expenditure for HM Treasury Group in a result of HMRC’s criminal investigations was £37 million 2009-10 was £117.5 million (excluding VAT) which fell in 2009-10 and £64 million in 2010-11. to £108 million (excluding VAT) in 2010-11. Higher Education: Northern Ireland Mark Field: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what assessment he has made of the effect of the Stephen Pound: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer introduction of duty stamps on (a) spirits fraud, (b) what assessment he has made of the likely effect of any alcohol fraud and (c) total indirect tax fraud; [98167] block grant reduction on the university and higher (2) what assessment he has made of the effect of the education sectors in Northern Ireland. [96508] first year’s operation of the alcohol fraud strategy; and whether he plans to review the effectiveness of that Danny Alexander: No assessment has been made of strategy; [98168] the likely effect of any block grant reduction on the (3) what assessment he has made of the transferability university and higher education sectors in Northern of measures to tackle duty fraud on spirits to other Ireland. Once overall public expenditure budgets have categories of alcohol; [98166] been determined, the devolved Administrations have freedom to make their own spending decisions on devolved (4) what plans he has to improve the record-keeping programmes within their overall totals. by cash and carry warehouses to reduce alcohol duty fraud; [98162] Stephen Pound: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (5) what assessment he has made of the cost to small whether any element of the Northern Ireland block and medium-sized breweries of additional legislative grant is hypothecated for further and higher education measures to tackle beer duty fraud. [98172] in Northern Ireland. [96509] 735W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 736W

Danny Alexander: No elements of the Northern Ireland Mr Gauke: The information requested is not held block grants are hypothecated. Once overall public centrally and could be obtained only at disproportionate expenditure budgets have been determined, the devolved cost. Administrations have freedom to make their own spending decisions on devolved programmes within their overall NHS: Reorganisation totals.

Housing Revenue Accounts: Wales Valerie Vaz: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Health on the cost to the public purse of Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Chancellor of the the reorganisation of the NHS since May 2010. [91811] Exchequer whether he has had discussions with Ministers in the Welsh Government on the return of funding from Wales to his Department as a result of the Housing Danny Alexander [holding answer 26 January 2012]: Revenue Account Subsidy Scheme. [97203] I refer the hon. Member to the reply given to her oral question on 12 July 2011, Official Report, column 147. Danny Alexander: Treasury and Welsh Government Ministers meet from time to time to discuss matters of Pensions: Teachers common interest including the Housing Revenue Account Subsidy Scheme. Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has received a representation Monetary Policy from the Scottish Government requesting a valuation by the Government Actuary’s Department of the Scottish Mr Bain: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Teachers’ Superannuation Scheme. [97519] whether his Department has conducted any preparatory work in respect of the (a) monetary policy and (b) currency union implications of an independent Scotland. Danny Alexander: The Chancellor of the Exchequer [95061] has not received a representation from the Scottish Government requesting a valuation by the Government Danny Alexander: The Government are clear that Actuary’s Department of the Scottish Teachers’ Scotland benefits from being part of UK and the UK Superannuation Scheme. benefits from having Scotland within it. I set out the Government’s analysis of the issues relating to a currency Public Expenditure union in my speech to the Scottish Council for Development and Industry on 9 December 2011, which is available on Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Chancellor of the the HM Treasury website. Exchequer whether all payments made to devolved Administrations as a result of the Chancellor’s autumn Moody’s Investor Services: Press Releases statement resulted from the Barnett Formula; and what the (a) amount and (b) purpose of such payments was. Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Chancellor of the [98466] Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 1 March 2012, Official Report, column 428W, on Moody’s Investor Danny Alexander: The following Barnett consequentials Services, whether his Department requested changes to were given to the devolved Administrations in the 2011 be made to the draft press release submitted to it by autumn statement of 29 November 2011, Official Report, Moody’s Investor Services on 13 February 2012; whether columns 799-810: any such requested changes were incorporated by Moody’s Investor Services into their final press release; and £ million whether he personally was shown a copy of the draft 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 press release and agreed the changes that would be proposed. [98645] Road Transport 11.9 80.2 124.4 Rail Infrastructure 1.6 1.6 6.4 Mr Hoban: I refer the hon. Gentleman to my previous Growth and Green 12.3 69.2 115.4 answers of 22 February 2012, Official Report, column Education Capital 55.4 90.8 83.1 840W and 1 March 2012, Official Report, column 428W. Housing 49.7 33.6 -2.7 Youth Contract 23.1 19.6 18.3 National Insurance: Insolvency Early Years Childcare 13.6 38.5 73.0 Rail fares (increase by 16.6 17.2 21.6 RPI+1% instead of Susan Elan Jones: To ask the Chancellor of the RPI+3%) Exchequer (1) how many businesses have entered Business Rates deferral 13.6 -7.2 -6.4 administration as a result of steps taken by HM Revenue Business Rates: Holiday 33.7 -0.8 0.0 and Customs in respect of national insurance payments for small businesses since 2010; [98094] Total 231.6 342.7 433.2 (2) how many businesses HM Revenue and Customs has taken action against for late or non payment of In addition, £50 million was made available to the national insurance in each of the last three years. Scottish Government to co-fund the upgrade of the [98095] Caledonian Sleeper service. 737W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 738W

Public Expenditure: Wales (3) what representations he has received on the use of tax avoidance schemes and personal service companies Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Chancellor of the in the civil service. [98488] Exchequer what discussions (a) he, (b) Ministers in his Department and (c) officials in his Department had Danny Alexander: The Government are committed to with representatives of the Welsh Government on the tackling all forms of tax avoidance and do not believe Holtham Commission’s proposals for funding reform that tax avoidance is appropriate in the public sector. in Wales and Welsh Ministers’ existing borrowing powers; I have announced a review of public sector appointments and when he expects to make an announcement on to examine the extent to which use is made of arrangements funding reform. [98357] whereby the tax position of appointees can be perceived to be minimised, including where they are paid through Danny Alexander: The Government committed in the a personal service company, and to make appropriate 2011 Budget to consider all aspects of the Holtham recommendations. Commission’s reports, including funding reform for It will not be possible to provide further information Wales. Discussions between the Government and the on the scale of these arrangements and the public Welsh Government are taking place on a regular basis. policy considerations arising from them, until the review Public Sector Net Cash Requirement has been completed. Tax Collection: Complaints Mr Ellwood: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the public sector borrowing requirement; and if he will make a statement. Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many complaints HM Revenue and Customs have [97770] received about the wording of demand notices in each Danny Alexander: The Independent Office for Budget of the last five years. [98138] Responsibility’s forecast for public sector net borrowing in 2011-12 is £127 billion, as set out in their November Mr Gauke: This information is not available. Economic and Fiscal Outlook. HM Revenue and Customs does not categorise The OBR will publish updated economic and fiscal complaints in this way. forecasts alongside the Budget. Taxation: Motor Vehicles Smuggling: Alcoholic Drinks Ms Ritchie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mark Field: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he plans to devolve vehicle licensing and taxation what the duty value of seizures of (a) spirits, (b) wine powers to the Northern Ireland Executive. [97444] and (c) beer made by HM Revenue and Customs was in each year since 2002. [98169] Danny Alexander: I refer the hon. Member to the answer the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the Miss Chloe Smith: The following table shows the right hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson), total excise duty and VAT values of seizures of alcohol gave on 7 February 2012, Official Report, column 171W. by HMRC and the UK Border Agency since 2002-03:

£ Beer Spirits Wine FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE 2002-03 2,710,740 11,458,141 2,150,077 Burma 2003-04 2,345,194 5,289,214 2,876,574 2004-05 1,770,802 2,181,992 1,364,513 Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for 2005-06 2,386,026 2,422,099 620,220 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) what steps he 2006-07 1,626,375 3,781,579 578,747 is taking to encourage the government of Burma to 2007-08 4,563,048 5,722,612 2,623,020 end the conflict between the national army and ethnic 2008-09 4,536,191 4,300,225 2,959,071 groups in Kachin and Shan states; [98371] 2009-10 3,980,513 8,943,086 4,051,375 (2) what steps he is taking to ensure that peace between 2010-11 5,942,462 12,015,389 5,993,453 the Government of Burma and the Karen National Union is long-lasting and that all political prisoners are Tax Avoidance: Civil Servants released. [98372]

Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Chancellor of the Mr Jeremy Browne: We remain deeply concerned Exchequer (1) what contingency arrangements he has about ethnic-based conflicts in Burma, particularly in made for meeting the cost of unwinding the use of tax Shan, Kachin and Karen States. During his visit to the avoidance arrangements and personal service companies country in January, the Secretary of State for Foreign across the civil service; [98486] and Commonwealth Affairs, the right hon. Member for (2) if he will publish details of the special circumstances Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), set put clearly to the in which the Treasury has permitted the use of personal Burmese President and Ministers the steps necessary to service companies by senior civil servants; and what the address these concerns and that need to be taken before principle public policy considerations are in permitting a more fundamental shift in our relationship could take the use of such companies; [98487] place. These are: humanitarian access to areas affected 739W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 740W by conflict; the release of all political prisoners and free In May 2011 a member of staff had their briefcase stolen from and fair by-elections; and a clear process of reconciliation their vehicle in Chicago. Nine applicant CVs and the member of between ethnic groups. staffs own appraisal were in the briefcase. The incident was reported to the police and the applicants were informed of the The President told the Secretary of State for Foreign incident. and Commonwealth Affairs that the reforms would In July 2011 registered mail from Dublin went missing in continue and that he was confident that the Burmese transit and a prisoner repatriation request document was never Government would soon achieve ceasefires nationwide. recovered. Both the appropriate Consular officers and the prisoner He acknowledged the need for humanitarian assistance were informed. The Ministry of Justice confirmed that the prisoner in conflict areas, and also said that Burma’s progress to transfer process was not affected by the loss of the document. democracy is irreversible. All Ministers that the Secretary In August 2011 a member of staff had a USB stick stolen of State met said that all political prisoners would be during a visit to the British embassy in Abu Dhabi. It contained released. A reversal on this commitment would have the names and details of the skills, previous places of employment serious implications for any further easing of EU restrictive and qualifications of around 320 employees. All affected members of staff were informed and appropriate security breach points measures. were awarded to the member of staff who had saved the data on Since the visit we have seen some encouraging the stick. developments. On 12 January the Burmese Government In November 2011 the attack on, and subsequent evacuation and Karen National Union signed an initial agreement of, the British embassy compound in Tehran meant that sensitive that puts them on the path to a ceasefire. The following information, including personal data, could have been compromised. day, there was a significant release of political prisoners In line with emergency procedures, UK and locally engaged staff which will contribute to greater democratic participation were able to destroy some official material before they evacuated. in the parliamentary by-elections. We have seen a number Other materials are known to have been destroyed during the arson attack. The majority of the consular and entry clearance of initial peace agreements in various ethnic areas, but materials left on site are stored in secure cabinets. The Information the process remains fragile. We also hope to see further Commissioner’s Office has been notified about this incident and prisoner releases in near future. has recently acknowledged our notification with a request for an We will remain in close dialogue with EU partners on update. next steps, and with Aung San Suu Kyi, to ensure any further decisions support her dialogue and the process Henderson Island of reform. We will, of course, continue to raise our concerns with the Government, through the UN and Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for countries in the region. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what progress has been made on the Henderson Island rat eradication Departmental Data Protection programme. [96350] Mr Bellingham: The Royal Society for the Protection Mr David Davis: To ask the Secretary of State for of Birds (RSPB) conducted a ground-breaking operation Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will publish in August last year as part of the programme to rid details of the six incidents of data loss during 2011; and Henderson Island of non-indigenous rats. In a project whether such cases were referred to the Information supported by the British and Pitcairn Governments, the Commissioner’s Office. [98430] RSPB conducted a bait drop on precise Global Positioning Satellite co-ordinates using two helicopters operating Mr Lidington: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office from an improvised aircraft carrier. Although the final takes its data handling responsibilities very seriously. results will not be known until a survey next year, initial Our policies and procedures are designed to ensure that indications are that the project has been successful in we are compliant with the Data Protection Act 1998 removing the rats and protecting the unique biodiversity and HMG’s Security Policy Framework. All our staff, of this World Heritage Site. including those who work for our delivery partners, have a responsibility to manage personal data effectively Mali and securely in line with those policies and procedures. Training in data handling is mandatory for all staff. Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Of the six data loss incidents recorded by the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment he and Commonwealth Office in 2011, one was reported has made of the human rights situation in Mali. [98069] to the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO). This incident involved the possible compromise of sensitive Mr Bellingham: Britain, along with our EU partners, information after the arson attack on the British embassy is deeply concerned by recent incidents of violence in in Tehran in November. northern Mali, including the displacement of people A breakdown of all six incidents is as follows: throughout the region. Our ambassador in Bamako In January 2011 two separate incidents occurred in Madrid engages regularly with the Malian authorities and has whereby DHL vans were broken into and a total of 32 British raised our concerns with the Malian Foreign Minister. passports stolen. All passports were cancelled and all customers In direct response to severe food shortages in the contacted. DHL reported both incidents to the police and embassy officials held a meeting with DHL to discuss arrangements to region, Britain has announced an urgent package of ensure the secure delivery of passports. support to help mitigate the crisis. British aid will help treat 83,000 severely malnourished children in Niger, In March 2011 cancelled passports containing personal details, visa, and residence permits went missing in Pretoria. All passports Chad and Mali and provide emergency livelihood support were cancelled and alerts sent to all ports. All staff members were to some 34,000 families to enable them to buy food for interviewed, a review of procedures conducted and appropriate the coming months. In addition, British aid is already changes implemented. reaching those in need across the Sahel through the 741W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 742W release of £10.7 million from the United Nation’s Central obligations by providing financial support for their Emergency Response Fund—to which Britain is a major children’s education overseas where necessary, or in the contributor. UK where staff choose this, or are obliged to do so We continue to monitor the situation closely. given local conditions in the country to which they are posted. Continuity of education is also an important Nigeria factor, particularly at secondary level. The FCO spent a total of £13,067,398 on UK schooling Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign in financial year 2010-11, and £11,520,900 on day schooling and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has for children who accompanied their parents overseas. made of the security situation in Nigeria. [98281] We do not hold the information in the form necessary to break it down in the details requested and to answer Mr Bellingham: The Government of Nigeria continue the question in that format would involve disproportionate to face significant security challenges. Both ongoing cost. inter-communal conflict and violent attacks continue to We do not routinely pay for children to attend cause suffering in Nigerian communities. The Secretary independent day schools in the UK. But children who of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my have previously boarded while parents were overseas, right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) may become day pupils at the same school to continue (Mr Hague), made clear his condemnation of the attacks their education while their parents are in the UK between carried out in Kano City on 20 January, for which Boko postings. Additionally, a few children who accompany Haram claimed responsibility and which resulted in parents overseas and are educated in the international the death of over 180 people. The Prime Minister met system, may need to attend a private school in the UK President Goodluck Jonathan on 22 February and to continue their education in that system during time reaffirmed our commitment to supporting the Nigerian spent here. Government in their efforts to resolve the causes of conflict. Occupied Territories Yemen

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he and Commonwealth Affairs when the next meeting of has taken to press for an end to the construction and the Friends of Yemen will take place. [98125] expansion of illegal settlements in the West Bank. [98269] Alistair Burt: Re-convening the Friends of Yemen group has been conditional on the Yemeni Government Alistair Burt: I refer the hon. Member to the answer showing commitment to implementing political transition. that the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth There has been significant progress in Yemen, notably Affairs, my right Hon. Friend the Member for Richmond the holding of successful interim presidential elections (Yorks) (Mr Hague), gave to the right hon. Member for and the inauguration of President Hadi. We plan to Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Mr Alexander), on 9 hold an early Friends of Yemen ministerial meeting to February 2012, Official Report, column 367W. discuss how the international community can support Yemen’s transition. An announcement will shortly be Most recently I again raised this issue with the Israeli made once agreement on an agenda and logistics has Deputy Foreign Minister on 27 February. been reached by all co-chairs. Private Education Zimbabwe Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the annual cost to his Department was of meeting the costs of Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for education of employees’ children who were (a) boarding Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment in the UK, (b) attending fee paying schools in the UK he has made of human rights and democracy in Zimbabwe. as non-boarders, (c) boarding in countries other than [98369] the UK and (d) attending fee paying schools outside the UK as non-boarders in the most recent period for Mr Bellingham: Although human rights abuses are which figures are available. [98647] far less widespread than at their peak in 2008, politically targeted violence continues against Movement for Mr Bellingham: It is a condition of their employment Democratic Change activists, civil society activists and that members of the diplomatic service must be prepared Anglicans in Harare and Manicaland. We anticipate to serve anywhere in the world at any time during their that if and when elections do take place, the human career, sometimes at very short notice. Those with children rights situation is likely to deteriorate in the run up to have a legal obligation as parents to ensure that their polls if further pre-election reforms do not take place. children receive a full-time education from the age of If Zimbabwe is to move forward it is important that it five years. Most parents prefer to take their children addresses its human rights record and implements essential with them abroad, but in some countries we do not reforms in advance of elections. The ongoing engagement permit staff to take their children either for health or by the South African Development Community, as security reasons. In others, local schools of an acceptable facilitator of discussions between the parties in the standard are not available. It is longstanding practice Inclusive Government, will be important for this to that the FCO helps staff meet their potentially conflicting happen. We will continue to support this process. 743W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 744W

JUSTICE Departmental Public Expenditure

Antisocial Behaviour Orders Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what recent progress he has made on his Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Department’s Public Value Programme; and what the what proportion of applications for anti-social behaviour (a) number of civil service staff in scope for privatisation orders in (a) the London borough of Bexley and (b) is and (b) timescale is for implementation; whether a London were successful in each of the last five years. value for money assessment will be undertaken; and [97430] whether there will be an opportunity for an in-house bid or bids. [98649] James Brokenshire: I have been asked to reply on Mr Djanogly: HM Courts and Tribunals Service is behalf of the Home Department. currently working on the Enforcement Public Value The proportion of antisocial behaviour orders (ASBOs) Programme which proposes to increase the level of granted in the Greater London Criminal Justice System magistrates court fine collection over existing levels area in each year between 2006 and 2010 (the latest year while reducing the cost of collection. for which data are currently available) is provided in After consideration of the current services and future Table A. Data collected centrally by the Ministry of requirements, I have agreed that HM Courts and Tribunals Justice on antisocial behaviour orders (ASBOs) are not Service should explore the potential of creating a service compiled at borough level. delivery partnership, with the objective of building on Antisocial behaviour orders (ASBOs) issued following application1 at the improvements we have already made. It is envisaged all magistrates courts and county courts2 in the Greater London that any such partnership would be able to provide the Criminal Justice System (CJS) area, the number of such application level of investment necessary to achieve these objectives. refused and the proportion granted, as reported to the Ministry of Justice3 by Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service, 2006 to 2010 HM Courts and Tribunals Service has not yet finalised Greater the precise elements of current service that will be in London CJS scope, and therefore it is not yet definite who is likely to area 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 be affected by any resulting change. ASBOs applied 130 134 68 55 68 A procurement process will be conducted to identify for a potential partner, and this process will include appropriate Of which: assessment of both qualitative and quantitative factors, Refused02000with a view to identifying the best value for money Proportion 100 98.5 100 100 100 solution. The procurement will be conducted in a fair, granted open and transparent manner and in accordance with (percentage) Public Sector Procurement Directive (2004/18/EC) as 1 The following bodies can apply to courts to get an ASBO issued: implemented through the Public Contracts Regulations British Transport police, Housing Action Trusts, local government 2006 (as amended) (SI2006/5). authorities, police, registered social landlords, Transport for London and the Environment Agency. Transport for London was granted the We have not yet determined whether there will be an power to apply for ASBOs in its own right by the Secretary of State opportunity to accept an in-house bid. for the Home Department in September 2006. 2 Includes ASBOs issued on application by magistrates courts acting Domestic Violence in their civil capacity and county courts. These orders became available on 1 April 1999. Does not include those ASBOs made following Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for conviction for a relevant criminal offence. Justice how many additional legal aid cases he expects 3 Prior to the creation of the Ministry of Justice on 9 May 2007, numbers of ASBOs issued were reported to Home Office by the Court will be covered by the change of definition to domestic Service. violence announced on 29 February 2012. [98408] Note: Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate Mr Djanogly: The Government have been clear and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have throughout the passage of the Legal Aid Sentencing been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by and Punishment of Offenders Bill that we expect no the courts. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data additional legal aid cases arising from using the Association collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. of Chief Police Officer’s definition of domestic violence compared to the definition of domestic violence originally Departmental Carbon Emissions used in the Bill. Fines Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what reduction in carbon dioxide emissions his John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Department has made under the 10:10 initiative. [97937] Justice what data from government departments the Public Value Programme’s successful bidder will have Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice did not sign up available to it for the collection and enforcement of to the 10:10 campaign. criminal fines. [98627] The Ministry of Justice achieved an 11.5% reduction between May 2010 and May 2011 against the Prime Mr Djanogly: I have agreed that HM Courts and Minister’s target for central Government to reduce their Tribunals Service should explore the potential of creating carbon emissions by 10%. More information can be a service delivery partnership, with the objective of found here: building on the improvements we have already made. http://data.gov.uk/departmental-performance-co2-emissions- We have not yet determined what data access may be reduction-date required at this stage. 745W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 746W

Prisoners: EU Nationals Mr Blunt: The requested breakdowns of European Union national prisoners in England and Wales 2002 to Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011 are shown in tables 1 to 3. Justice how many non-UK EU citizens were serving a These figures have been drawn from administrative custodial sentence in the UK in each of the last IT systems which, as with any large scale recording 10 years broken down by the (a) offence, (b) length of system, are subject to possible errors with data entry sentence and (c) prison in which they were held. [98442] and processing.

Table 1: Immediate custodial sentenced prison population of EU nationals by offence group, 30 June 2002 to 2011 England and Wales Offence group 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

Violence against the 196 222 259 261 326 333 411 469 536 610 person Sexual offences 84 85 95 108 147 181 188 236 311 335 Robbery 132 143 124 133 146 175 189 210 231 262 Burglary 119 127 118 144 150 160 174 176 201 211 Theft and handling 75 90 120 114 133 148 158 192 260 348 Fraud and forgery 45 52 81 92 99 97 114 125 104 113 Drug offences 524 511 523 508 525 451 403 379 426 441 Motoring offences 31 51 45 51 67 48 60 53 58 83 Other offences 98 134 136 127 153 158 176 182 238 279 Offence not recorded 17 11 13 11 9 1 7 33 32 14 Total 1,321 1,426 1,514 1,550 1,754 1,752 1,880 2,055 2,397 2,696 Data sources and quality: These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems which, as with any large scale recording system, are subject to possible errors with data entry and processing.

Table 2: Immediate custodial sentenced prison population of EU nationals by sentence length, 30 June 2002 to 2011 England and Wales Sentence length 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

Less than or equal to 89 124 134 133 216 168 237 273 339 435 6 months Greater than 6 months 23 36 41 42 66 65 91 76 109 136 to less than 12 months 12 months to less than 358 390 396 450 481 511 554 554 658 722 4 years 4 years or more 752 778 849 829 850 816 757 774 892 949 (excluding indeterminates) Indeterminate 98 97 94 95 142 192 240 284 325 367 sentences Recalls1 ———————947487 Total 1,321 1,426 1,514 1,550 1,754 1,752 1,880 2,055 2,397 2,696 1 Due to the introduction of a new prison IT system, prior to 2009 the prison population was taken from a different source and recalls are shown separately (previously shown in the relevant sentence length band). Data sources and quality: These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems which, as with any large scale recording system, are subject to possible errors with data entry and processing.

Table 3: Prison population of EU nationals by prison establishment, 30 June 2002 to 2011 England and Wales Establishment 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

Altcourse 10 14 12 19 23 23 24 32 32 33 Ashfield 2 4 1 8 2 666812 Ashwell 751516111315240 AskhamGrange4051022003 Aylesbury 7 6 6 10 12 18 13 15 13 18 Bedford 15142422163234333941 Belmarsh 51 36 42 45 48 54 42 40 45 50 Birmingham 19 13 35 27 33 28 46 48 56 71 Blantyre House 2 1 1 2 1 00100 Blundeston 23 31 14 25 23 9 34 18 24 17 Brinsford 4 4 5 1 5 9 8 11 8 15 Bristol 12 10 10 10 14 18 19 21 21 19 Brixton 59515641765066948780 Bronzefield 0 0 6 31 50 41 24 21 42 37 BuckleyHall1669367511 Bullingdon 18 34 30 26 42 36 40 45 54 38 747W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 748W

Table 3: Prison population of EU nationals by prison establishment, 30 June 2002 to 2011 England and Wales Establishment 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

Bullwood Hall 11 6 10 5 5 30 37 28 43 75 Bure 000000001718 Canterbury 45 18 7 9 26 32 42 65 58 98 Cardiff 0 5 4 9111113151116 ChanningsWood786871016837 Chelmsford 35242335192934232845 Coldingley1913149172312389 Cookham Wood 8 7 2 12 12 90341 Dartmoor 9 5 4 12 8 9 8 20 16 18 Deerbolt 1110342463 Doncaster 5 10 8 13 24 16 22 28 37 25 Dorchester 8 10 3 9 7 662412 Dovegate 44 43 28 15 14 22 26 17 22 23 DoverIRC28952767674 Downview 12161628252517131824 DrakeHall 51516681053922 Durham 4 9 4 9131010141511 EastSuttonPark0185331014 Eastwood Park 7 6 4 0 4 647710 Erlestoke 1 4 12 12 12 114262 Everthorpe2311657557 Exeter 8 8 13 7 12 11 13 15 14 18 Featherstone 5 6 8 8 13 11 10 15 18 12 Feltham 25 22 27 32 29 19 28 36 36 35 Ford 16 21 31 30 11 11 30 18 27 10 Forest Bank 13 8 5 11 16 16 21 12 25 22 FostonHall43223662112 Frankland 12 14 11 8 9 12 14 14 17 19 FullSutton 15131712141015101426 Garth 11 11 9 11 9 14 13 15 16 27 Gartree 7 6 7 9 10 6 5 15 27 32 Glen Parva 9 9 9 12 14 17 18 13 23 25 Gloucester 1 3 1138711152012 Grendon/Spring Hill 10 12 15 20 13 8 6 11 10 6 Guys Marsh 8 10 7 11 13 16 15 18 10 17 Haslar IRC 11 0 4 3 2 33032 Haverigg 7 3 5 3 1 5 11 6 22 23 Hewell1 20 26 14 20 28 36 46 50 75 41 High Down 23 28 35 39 42 42 49 67 49 53 Highpoint (North and 41 42 57 46 71 66 63 64 98 105 South) Hindley 4721226346 Hollesley Bay 8 7 15 13 1 85864 Holloway 40364352263449464387 Holme House 0 5 4 10 14 136367 Hull 3 4 8 10 12 23 17 32 28 42 Huntercombe 4 5 8 10 6 76433 ISIS2 00000000020 Isle of Wight3 42 48 68 55 52 60 62 69 76 68 Kennet 0000016213 Kingston 4 3 3 7 6 43432 Kirkham 3458225644 Kirklevington0110000101 Lancaster 6 6 6 4 6 9 8 8 10 6 Latchmere House 4 5 7 8 6 24122 Leeds 11101315192133322640 Leicester 4 4 7 12 8 8 14 12 12 16 Lewes 6 18 19 15 24 22 28 15 23 27 Leyhill 87148971711312 Lincoln 8 2 17 9 20 20 39 38 40 46 749W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 750W

Table 3: Prison population of EU nationals by prison establishment, 30 June 2002 to 2011 England and Wales Establishment 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

Lindholme 2 9 8 8 22 8 14 31 46 54 Littlehey 12 12 26 23 22 26 26 25 35 49 Liverpool 5 6 15 12 16 16 27 29 40 28 Long Lartin 20 22 14 15 10 14 12 14 22 19 LowNewton12110713684 Lowdham Grange 31 42 25 21 21 21 23 22 31 38 Maidstone 11 19 23 25 39 41 17 54 60 56 Manchester 20 29 22 28 41 44 38 45 56 27 Moorland 7 7 3 3 11 8 9 12 17 6 Morton Hall4 11 24 38 42 43 33 35 36 41 10 Mount 28 21 18 39 56 52 39 38 45 49 NewHall 45666889913 NorthSeaCamp4353257242 Northallerton 1 2 0 1 0 14141 Northumberland5 3465786763 Norwich 17 21 24 18 20 13 28 24 35 54 Nottingham 7 10 7 5 11 8 17 15 18 45 Onley 5 8 8 10 15 13 13 14 18 15 Parc 3 10 9 10 18 16 11 14 15 16 Pentonville 64 58 86 86 110 99 124 95 109 150 Peterborough6 0 0 0 24 37 34 47 68 81 83 Portland 8 10 12 8 20 11 8 12 21 18 Preston 9 7 5 1 16 17 13 10 16 17 Ranby 6 6 7 15 18 14 19 21 25 37 Reading 3467645756 Risley 10 14 10 9 6 12 15 36 34 38 Rochester 3 3 14 11 11 11 5 21 33 22 Rye Hill 40 32 32 12 15 29 31 42 38 37 Send 11 18 13 12 15 9 13 15 9 12 Sheppey cluster7 137 178 196 177 151 129 116 128 152 154 Shepton Mallet 1 3 2 1 2 22122 Shrewsbury03413479611 Stafford 5 7 9 10 10 11 12 9 16 17 Stocken 7 9 10 7 15 10 14 17 10 9 Stoke Heath 4 2 3 3 7 4 7 8 10 3 Styal 8 4 16 9 8 12 12 12 12 15 Sudbury 9 9 135546583 Swansea 5 4 4 11 6 14 9 11 3 9 Swinfen Hall 1 1 2 4 3 4 6 7 19 18 Thorn Cross 0 0 1 1 0 00111 Usk/Prescoed 7 5 7 7 4 65776 Verne 69534768928169819890 Wakefield 9 8 9 6 15 14 15 21 23 20 Wandsworth 81 98 85 117 126 121 155 215 240 284 WarrenHill0220221722 Wayland 23 31 20 30 44 46 39 49 19 21 Wealstun 4 6 4 5 8 97776 Weare 1913120000000 Wellingborough 14 12 8 12 13 24 25 28 22 41 Werrington 1 0 1 1 1 00015 Wetherby 0103111223 Whatton 4 6 6 3141717121012 Whitemoor 34 32 20 21 16 18 10 19 30 36 Winchester 11 15 19 18 24 22 24 22 23 25 Wolds 85105027214 Woodhill 16 11 40 36 34 30 39 45 36 48 Wormwood Scrubs 47 68 96 101 113 122 127 143 139 150 751W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 752W

Table 3: Prison population of EU nationals by prison establishment, 30 June 2002 to 2011 England and Wales Establishment 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

Wymott 9 81313101117152020

Total 1,765 1,861 2,073 2,160 2,469 2,477 2,704 2,957 3,354 3,686 IRC = Immigration removal centre. 1 HMP Hewell was created by an amalgamation of the three former prisons, Blakenhurst, Brockhill and Hewell Grange on 25 June 2008; as of 30 September 2011 the Brockhill site closed. 2 HMP and YOI Isis, which opened on 28 July 2010, is sited within the perimeter wall of HMP Belmarsh. 3 HMP Isle of Wight was created by an amalgamation of the three former prisons, Albany, Camp Hill and Parkhurst on 1 April 2009. 4 On 13 January 2011 the Secretary of State for Justice announced that HMP Morton Hall, will close (having previously been a female prison) and then re-open as an Immigration Removal Centre, holding immigration detainees on behalf of UKBA. On 16 May Morton Hall began operating as an immigration removal centre. 5 HMP Northumberland is the new name for Acklington and Castington. 6 Peterborough is a dual purpose prison for men and women. 7 Sheppey cluster includes: Elmley, Stanford Hill and Swaleside. Note: These figures differ from tables 1 and 2 as they include all custody types: Remand, Sentenced, Fine Defaulters and Non-criminal prisoners. Data sources and quality: These figures have been drawn from administrative IT systems which, as with any large scale recording system, are subject to possible errors with data entry and processing.

Prisoners: Repatriation Programme; for what reasons a model based on privatisation was selected; and if he will make a Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [98628] Justice (1) what estimate he has made of the number of non-UK EU citizens serving a custodial sentence in the Mr Djanogly: HM Courts and Tribunals Service is UK that his Department expects to be able to repatriate currently working on the Enforcement Public Value to their home member state under the EU Prisoner Programme with proposals to increase the level of Transfer framework in each of the next five years; magistrates court fine collection over existing levels [98443] while reducing the cost of collection. (2) how many non-UK EU citizens who were serving I have agreed that HM Courts and Tribunals Service a custodial sentence in the UK his Department has should explore the potential of creating a service delivery repatriated to their home member state since the EU partnership, with the objective of building on the Prisoner Transfer framework came into force. [98444] improvements we have already made. Continued Mr Blunt: Council Framework Decision 2008/909/JHA improvements would require substantial financial (the EU Prisoner Transfer Agreement) which will govern investment to develop and upgrade processes further the transfer of prisoners between member states of the still. A partnership would bring the investment and European Union, entered into force on 5 December technology we need to achieve our aspirations for 2011. To date seven member states, including the United compliance and enforcement services in the future. Kingdom, have implemented the compulsory arrangements. The Government have not made a specific assessment Reoffenders of the number of EU nationals who might be transferred under this agreement. However, we expect to see a steady increase in the number of EU nationals who are Mrs Chapman: To ask the Secretary of State for transferred as other member states implement the Justice (1) how many offenders were recalled to prison agreement. We are encouraging member states who in (a) each English region and (b) Wales between have not yet done so to implement the agreement at the 1 January 2008 and 1 January 2012; [97334] earliest opportunity. (2) how many offenders under the supervision of Since 5 December 2011, 10 EU nationals have been each probation trust in England and Wales were recalled transferred from England and Wales to other member to prison between 1 January 2008 and 1 January 2012. states to continue serving their sentences. Transfer took [97337] place under existing voluntary arrangements for the transfer of prisoners between member states of the EU. Mr Blunt: Data are held centrally on the prison No prisoners have yet been transferred under the new population on the last day of each month, so figures are EU prisoner transfer agreement. In most cases a deportation not available for 1 January each year. order is necessary in order to effect the transfer. 24 Adult offenders serving a sentence of 12 months and prisoners have been identified as eligible for transfer. over (and all young offenders aged under 22) are released They have been referred to UKBA for consideration for from prison, in most cases automatically at the halfway deportation. point of their sentence, under licensed supervision to The transfer of prisoners from Scotland and from the Probation Service. Offenders released on licence Northern Ireland is a devolved matter. may be recalled to custody if their behaviour gives Public Expenditure cause for concern. The following table provides data by regions in England John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for and Wales and by probation area for three quarters of Justice if he will place in the Library a copy of the 2008, all quarters for years 2009 and 2010 and the first business model for his Department’s Public Value three quarters of 2011 (latest available). 753W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 754W

These figures have been drawn from administrative Licence recalls to prison, by England and Wales regions and probation IT systems, which, as with any large scale recording areas, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 system, are subject to possible errors with data entry Region and 1 2 and processing. probation area 2008 2009 2010 2011 Licence recalls to prison, by England and Wales regions and probation Devon and 159 249 281 254 areas, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 Cornwall Region and Dorset 131 150 134 128 probation area 20081 2009 2010 20112 Gloucestershire 104 142 136 123 Wiltshire 59 85 96 68 North East 536 763 823 627 Durham 77 129 155 154 Northumbria 298 404 447 337 Wales 597 937 959 824 Teesside 161 230 221 136 Dyfed Powys 45 65 65 47 Gwent 113 147 178 109 North Wales 111 174 149 148 North West 1,686 2,315 2,458 1,809 South Wales 328 551 567 520 Cheshire 135 223 220 150 1 Reports started in the second quarter of 2008 and as such data are Cumbria 95 103 140 100 not available for the first quarter. Lancashire 303 444 472 387 2 Data are not yet available for the last quarter of 2011. Greater 773 1049 1116 812 Manchester Merseyside 380 496 510 360 Repossession Orders Yorkshire and 1,258 1,827 1,857 1,526 Humber Humberside 278 391 387 290 Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for North Yorkshire 94 130 145 88 Justice how many repossessions took place in (a) South Yorkshire 351 502 538 379 Leeds North West constituency, (b) Yorkshire and (c) West Yorkshire 535 804 787 769 England in each year since 2009; and what estimate he has made of the likely number of repossessions in each area in each of the next three years. [98474] East Midlands 950 1,333 1,401 1,142 Derbyshire 194 262 310 254 Leicestershire 197 255 264 215 Mr Djanogly: The following table shows the numbers Lincolnshire 96 113 121 113 of claims leading to orders being made for the repossession Northamptonshire 128 210 185 150 of property by mortgage lenders and landlords in (a) Nottinghamshire 335 493 521 410 Leeds North West constituency, (b) West Yorkshire, (c) Yorkshire and the Humber, and (d) England in each year since 2009. The Ministry of Justice does not West Midlands 1,175 1,710 1,668 1,308 hold information on the total numbers of repossessions Staffordshire 201 277 275 228 of property (including where keys are handed back Warwickshire 86 140 110 71 voluntarily). West Mercia 102 173 201 152 These figures represent the numbers of claims leading West Midlands 786 1,120 1,082 857 to orders being made. This is more accurate than the number of orders, removing the double-counting of Eastern 693 957 1,095 779 instances where a single claim leads to more than one Bedfordshire 115 187 200 115 order. It is also a more meaningful measure of the Cambridgeshire 95 142 170 135 number of homeowners who are subject to court Essex 171 239 300 232 repossession actions. Hertfordshire 107 130 142 101 These figures do not indicate how many properties Norfolk 124 159 158 107 have actually been repossessed. Repossessions can occur Suffolk 81 100 125 89 without a court order, such as where borrowers hand the keys back to the lender. Also, not all possession London 1,543 2,401 2,516 2,013 orders result in repossession. Many orders are suspended and if the borrower complies with the repayment arrangements set out in the suspended order the property South East 1,004 1,481 1,532 1,237 will not be repossessed. Hampshire and 254 344 368 273 Isle of Wight Claims leading to orders figures for all parliamentary Kent 208 348 348 285 constituencies in England and Wales were this morning Surrey 66 109 116 90 placed on the Ministry of Justice website at: Sussex 183 255 310 255 http://www.justice.gov.uk/statistics/civil-justice/mortgage- Thames Valley 293 425 390 334 possession The Council of Mortgage Lenders in December 2011 South West 690 991 1,099 939 released a forecast of 45,000 repossessions in the United Avon and 237 365 452 366 Kingdom in 2012. They have not yet released a forecast Somerset for 2013 and do not publish regional estimates. 755W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 756W

Number of mortgage1 and landlord2,3 possession claims leading to the keys back to the lender. Also, not all possession orders made4,5,6 for properties in Leeds North West constituency7,8, 7 7 7 orders result in repossession. Many orders are suspended West Yorkshire , Yorkshire and the Humber and England , 2009-11 and if the borrower complies with the repayment Mortgage possession Landlord Possession arrangements set out in the suspended order the property 9 9 2009 2010 2011 2009 2010 2011 will not be repossessed. Leeds 70 50 55 55 45 60 Claims leading to orders figures for all regions and North local authority areas in England and Wales in 2011 West constituency were recently published on 9 February 2012. This statistical bulletin is available from the Ministry of Justice website West 3,680 3,020 2,850 2,635 2,620 2,900 Yorkshire at: (Met http://www.justice.gov.uk/statistics/civil-justice/mortgage- county) possession Yorkshire 7,905 6,600 6,500 7,160 6,780 7,240 Number of mortgage1 possession claims leading to orders made2,3,4,5 and the for properties in north-west, Tameside borough and Stockport borough, Humber 2010-11 England 67,315 53,045 51,270 87,885 86,310 93,680 2010 2011 1 Includes all types of mortgage lenders. 2 Includes all types of landlord whether social or private. North-west 9,245 *9,210 3 Landlord actions include those made under both standard and Tameside borough 385 *335 accelerated procedures. Landlord actions via the accelerated procedure enable the orders to be made solely on the basis of written Stockport borough 305 *300 evidence for shorthold tenancies, when the fixed period of tenancy 1 Includes all types of mortgage lenders. has come to an end. 2 The number of claims that lead to an order includes all claims in 4 The number of claims that lead to an order includes all claims in which the first order, whether outright or suspended, is made during which the first order, whether outright or suspended, is made during the period. the period. 3 The court, following a judicial decision, may grant an order for 5 The court, following a judicial decision, may grant an order for possession immediately. This entitles the claimant to apply for a possession immediately. This entitles the claimant to apply for a warrant to have the defendant evicted. However, even where a warrant warrant to have the defendant evicted. However, even where a for possession is issued, the parties can still negotiate a compromise to warrant for possession is issued, the parties can still negotiate a prevent eviction. compromise to prevent eviction. 4 Includes outright and suspended orders, the latter being where the 6 Includes outright and suspended orders, the latter being where the court grants the claimant possession but suspends the operation of court grants the claimant possession but suspends the operation of the order. Provided the defendant complies with the terms of suspension, the order. Provided the defendant complies with the terms of which usually require the defendant to pay the current mortgage or suspension, which usually require the defendant to pay the current rent instalments plus some of the accrued arrears, the possession mortgage or rent instalments plus some of the accrued arrears, the order cannot be enforced. possession order cannot be enforced. 5 All figures are rounded to the nearest 5. 7 All figures are rounded to the nearest five. Note: 8 Data up until the first quarter of 2010 (January to March) will All period figures denoted by ‘*’ are based on provisional data. reflect Leads North West constituency boundaries as fixed at the Source: 2005 general election and for the rest of 2010 and 2011 the re-fixed Ministry of Justice boundaries as of May 2010. 9 All period figures are based on provisional data Sentencing Source: Ministry of Justice Repossession Orders: North West Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) how many prisoners serving an indeterminate public Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for protection sentence in England and Wales who have Justice how many homes were repossessed by mortgage been assessed as suitable to be held in open conditions lenders in (a) the North West, (b) Tameside Borough but are still waiting to be moved to a Category D and (c) Stockport Borough in (i) 2010 and (ii) 2011. prison, have already served their tariff; [97996] [98631] (2) how many prisoners serving an indeterminate public protection sentence in England and Wales who Mr Djanogly: The table shows the numbers of claims have been recommended for transfer to a Category D leading to orders being made for the repossession of prison are still awaiting transfer, broken down by age; property by mortgage lenders in (a) the North West, and for how long each prisoner has been waiting since (b) Tameside borough and (c) Stockport borough in being recommended. [97997] (i) 2010 and (ii) 2011. The Ministry of Justice does not hold information on the total numbers of repossessions Mr Blunt: As at 2 December 2011, there were 405 of property (including where keys are handed back indeterminate sentence prisoners (ISPs) who had passed voluntarily). their tariff expiry date and had been approved by the These figures represent the numbers of claims leading Secretary of State for transfer to open conditions but to orders being made. This is more accurate than the were located in closed. This figure includes those serving number of orders, removing the double-counting of a life sentence and those serving an indeterminate sentence instances where a single claim leads to more than one of Imprisonment for Public Protection (IPP). order. It is also a more meaningful measure of the This figure is taken from a snapshot of data. ISPs are number of homeowners who are subject to court prioritised for transfer to open conditions using the repossession actions. date the Secretary of State approved their move. Whether These figures do not indicate how many properties prisoners are serving an IPP or a life sentence is not have actually been repossessed. Repossessions can occur relevant to the prioritisation criteria and as a result was without a court order, such as where borrowers hand not, at that time, recorded as part of the process. 757W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 758W

Providing a figure for IPPs and the age and length of Table 2 shows the same information for adults aged waiting time would incur disproportionate costs as that 18 to 24 starting a community sentence and juveniles data has not been retained in a recorded form. In order aged 10 to 17 starting a community penalty. to provide a breakdown of the data in the categories Table 2 requested, retrospective checks of individual prisoners’ Reoffending rate of records would have to be performed to recreate the list 18 to 24-year-olds Reoffending rate of at the time it was generated. starting a community juveniles starting a These data are subject to variation due to progress of sentence community penalty individual cases including prisoners’ removal from open 2000 46.7 60.5 conditions following adverse developments and Parole 2002 47,4 63.5 Board decisions following review. 2003 46.6 68.0 This figure was drawn from administrative IT systems 2004 43.6 66.5 which, as with any large scale recording system, are 2005 42.4 66.8 subject to possible errors with data entry and processing. 2006 41.8 67.7 2007 42.1 66.7 Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 2008 41.4 65.9 what steps his Department has taken to ensure that 2009 40.0 65.6 magistrates are aware of community sentencing Please note that reoffending data are not available for projects in their area. [98279] 2001 due to a problem with archived data on court orders. Mr Djanogly: The Government welcome and encourage Reoffending rates by sentence type should not be the sharing of information between probation and compared to assess the effectiveness of sentences, as magistrates about local community sentencing and other there is no control for known differences in offender offender-related projects. We agree that magistrates should characteristics and the type of sentence given. be encouraged to visit probation on a regular basis and I am sure that probation trusts and others engaged in We recognise that the reoffending rate for young community sentencing initiatives welcome their interest. people leaving custody is too high. Custody for young people is a last resort and used only for the most serious At a national level the National Sentencer and Probation and persistent offenders. Young people leaving custody Forum enables probation, judges and the department to are therefore a challenging group with complex and share information on the national picture. There are wide ranging problems which require intensive intervention also arrangements for local liaison meetings governed and support. by a protocol issued by the Senior Presiding Judge. Sentencing: Mental Health Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what the recidivism rate is for children and young Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice people up to the age of 25 who have received (a) what proportion of (a) children and young adults and custodial and (b) community sentences in each of the (b) adults who have received custodial sentences have last 10 years for which data are available. [98280] been diagnosed as having mental health problems in the latest period for which figures are available. [98330]

Mr Blunt: Your question has been answered using the Mr Blunt: The information requested is not collected Ministry of Justice’s published proven reoffending statistics, centrally. for juvenile offenders aged 10 to 17 and adult offenders aged 18 or over. Proven reoffending is measured over a A survey by the Office for National Statistics in 1997 one-year period from the point an offender receives estimated that around 90% of adult prisoners had at their first court order or, in the case of custody, when least one of the five disorders considered in the survey they are released from prison. (personality disorder, psychosis, neurosis, alcohol misuse and drug dependence). Table 1 shows the proportion of adults aged 18 to 24 In the study ‘Mental Health Needs and Effectiveness and juveniles aged 10 to 17 that reoffended within a of Provision for Young Offenders in Custody and in the 12-month period. Community’ (Professor Richard Harrington and Professor Table 1 Sue Bailey, Youth Justice Board for England and Wales, Reoffending rate of 2005) 31% of young offenders were identified as having 18 to 24-year-olds Reoffending rate of a mental health problem. released from juveniles released custody from custody Sentencing: Young People 2000 61.0 76.8 2002 60.8 74.8 Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 2003 59.6 74.9 what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of 2004 55.6 75.5 mindfulness-based treatment of children and young 2005 54.6 73.8 people who have received custodial sentences. [98305] 2006 54.3 74.7 2007 55.9 74.1 Mr Blunt: Mindfulness-based therapy techniques cover 2008 55.1 72.1 a range of therapeutic approaches which include looking 2009 52.8 70.6 at thinking and attitudes. Programmes drawing on elements of these approaches are administered in the adult and 759W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 760W juvenile secure estate. For example, the Jets programme, References; and which is an under 18 accredited intervention uses similar A pass at the assessment centre to the tier one standard. techniques. Tier Two The Department has not made an assessment of the The interpreter must have one or more of the following: effectiveness of mindfulness-based treatment for children ‘Partial DPSI’ i.e. the interpreter must have passed all modules and young people who have received custodial sentences. with the exception of written translation; A degree in linguistics, English philology, Modern Languages Translation Services or MA in Teaching of English, or other language related diplomas where English figures as part of the course completed. Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Together with: Justice how many complaints his Department has received Previous or current employment in criminal justice services in regarding Applied Language Solutions (ALS) in the their countries of origin, last year; and if he will calculate the number of complaints Legal training in the UK or abroad, or other exposure to that concerned (a) poor or substandard interpreters, criminal justice work through other channels is also acceptable (b) ALS failing to provide interpreters and (c) interpreters (volunteer and/or paid work in the community for police being placed on ALS list of interpreters without the services or work for Victim Support, for example); consent of the interpreters concerned. [98203] University level education (any degree); At least 100 hours public sector interpreting experience; Mr Blunt: The contract for ALS to begin supplying References; and language services to the Ministry of Justice commenced A pass at the assessment centre to the tier two standard. on 12 December 2011 for the criminal courts in the north-west and was fully implemented on 30 January Tier Three 2012. Prior to the contracts implementation, the The interpreter must have one or more of the following: Department received a number of representations from Demonstrable experience in the public sector with appropriate interpreters opposed to our plans to contract for interpreting linguistic background; services, these included some complaints about Applied Formalised basic interpreter training including one of the Language Solutions. Interpreters, who have not signed following: the WEA programmes, Bi-Lingual Skills Certificates, up to work with ALS, continue to raise their concerns Community Level Interpreting Degrees under the NVQ certification about the contract with us. system. Together with: Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for References; and Justice (1) pursuant to the answer of 27 February 2012, A pass at the assessment centre to the tier three standard. Official Report, columns 71-2W, on Applied Language It is also desirable for tier three interpreters to have at Solutions, what steps his Department has taken to least 100 hours public sector interpreting experience. improve the performance of Applied Language Solutions; Rare languages [98501] (2) what qualifications the Framework Agreement In the case of rare languages where the DPSI or and the contract with Applied Language Solutions equivalent qualification is not available, the interpreter specify interpreters must have under (a) Tier 1, (b) must have the Cambridge Proficiency in English Certificate, 100 hours of public sector interpreting experience, evidence Tier 2 and (c) Tier 3. [98516] of continuous professional development, references and a pass at the assessment centre. Mr Blunt: We are committed to ensuring the rights and needs of those who require interpreters are safeguarded Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for and we have asked the contractor to take urgent steps Justice whether he was advised by (a) Applied Language to improve performance. The contractor is providing Solutions (ALS) and (b) counsel to ALS not to launch additional staff to deal with bookings, further targeted the new interpreters’ framework agreement across the recruitment of interpreters in key languages and whole country at one time. [98646] improvements to the call handling and complaints process. The Framework specifies a number of potential Mr Blunt: We considered a range of implementation qualifications for foreign language interpreters at each options in our discussions with Applied Language Solutions. of the three Tiers: ALS confirmed that they could deliver the services Tier One required through national implementation following a The interpreter must have one or more of the following: successful trial in the North West. We have not been Chartered Institute of Linguists Diploma in Public Service party to any discussions with counsel to ALS. Interpreting, DPSI, (English Law Option); Chartered Institute of Linguists Certificate in Community Mr Slaughter: To ask the Secretary of State for Interpreting, CCI; Justice if he will place in the Library copies of information Metropolitan Police Test (post 1997) and an Honours Degree collated from Crown Courts in London on a weekly or higher in Interpreting. basis on problems with the implementation of the Applied Languages Solutions contract. [98648] Or: Membership of National Register Public Sector Interpreters; Mr Djanogly: We are aware that some courts may be or gathering information to use as local management tools. Membership of Association of Police and Court Interpreters. Any such information is not being collated centrally. Together with: The Ministry will consider what information it can At least 100 hours public sector interpreting experience; usefully publish in due course. 761W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 762W

TRANSPORT Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency: Disclosure of Information A453 Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) what conditions private parking enforcement Transport when her Department plans to publish the companies have to comply with to be able to access timetable to widen the A453 between Nottingham and DVLA information systems; [98384] the M1. [98174] (2) whether those who access DVLA information systems must be members of the British Parking Mike Penning: The Highways Agency is working up Association; and what conditions apply to such access. detailed timescales for schemes announced in the [98385] Chancellor’s autumn statement on 29 November 2011, Official Report, columns 799-810, to identify the most Mike Penning: No organisation has direct access to efficient start of work dates. All of the schemes named Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) information in the autumn statement are expected to start construction systems. Information to help contact the registered and make significant progress in the next three years. keepers of vehicles can be released to private car parking We will make announcements on the timescales for management companies provided they demonstrate each scheme in due course. reasonable cause for requiring the information. Requests are received via both paper based and electronic routes. Action for Employment All private parking management companies requesting this information must be members of the British Parking Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Association (BPA). The BPA’s Approved Operator Scheme Transport what contracts her Department has with requires that all members must adhere to a code of A4e; and what the (a) purpose and (b) value is of each practice stipulating the standards of operation required. such contract. [97023] Failure to adhere to the code may result in expulsion from the scheme meaning that no further information Norman Baker: To the best of my knowledge, the will be provided by the DVLA. Department for Transport has no outstanding contracts Parking management companies are audited by both with A4e. BPA and DVLA to ensure that they are meeting the standards required. Bus Services: Concessions High Speed 2 Railway Line Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether she has any plans to extend the Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for provision of bus passes to enable free passage of pensioners Transport what discussions she has had with rail companies and disabled persons between England and Wales. on High Speed 2 trains serving stations on High Speed 1. [96348] [98651]

Norman Baker: There are no current plans to introduce Justine Greening: The HS2 Decisions and Next Steps mutual recognition of concessionary bus passes between document makes clear that the Government will explore England and Wales. Concessionary travel is a devolved options for HS2 trains to serve Stratford, Ebsfleet and policy area so the arrangements differ between England, other stations on HS1 going forward. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. It is however perfectly possible for local authorities to put in place Motorways: Speed Limits arrangements for mutual recognition of schemes across borders. Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what plans she has to introduce a speed limit Crossrail: Contracts on motorways of 80 mph. [98284]

Mr MacNeil: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Penning: We have announced our intention to Transport what the total value is of Crossrail contracts consult on proposals to increase the speed limit on awarded to companies with head offices based outside motorways to 80 miles per hour. As part of this process the UK, including joint ventures between domestic and we are carrying out further work to assess the potential international companies. [98075] economic, safety and environmental impacts of implementing this change. We plan to bring forward Mrs Villiers: Crossrail Ltd has awarded approximately detailed proposals and start consultation in the coming £1.4 billion of work to construction companies that do months. not have a UK-based headquarters, including joint ventures where at least one company has a headquarters Oil: EU Action outside of the UK. This is out of a total value of awarded contracts of approximately £4 billion to date. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for The vast majority of these contractors will sub-contract Transport what progress has been made on the inclusion with UK-based companies, and Crossrail Ltd currently of a default value for oil shale in the European fuel estimate that around 90% to 95% of the total Crossrail quality directive; and what her policy is on the European works awarded by value will be undertaken in the UK Commission’s proposal for a greenhouse gas emissions supply chain. value for oil shale. [97727] 763W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 764W

Norman Baker: On 23 February member states voted John Thurso: Since announcing the charge in an on a European Commission proposal for the implementing e-mail to Members and their staff on 24 February 2012, measures of article 7a of the fuel quality directive. three e-mails expressing concern regarding the charge The proposal voted on included default values for for Clock Tower Tours have been received by the Central petrol and diesel derived from oil shale. At the vote a Communications Team in the Office of the chief executive. ‘no opinion’ result was delivered under the weighted None have been received directly by the Commission. voting procedure known as Qualified Majority Voting. An Early Day Motion opposing the introduction of The proposal will now proceed for consideration by the charges has been tabled, and has been signed by 23 hon. Environment Council. Members (as at 7 March). The Government are committed to reducing greenhouse gas emissions and want the fuel quality directive to be a Mr Amess: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, key tool in achieving this aim. We are therefore continuing Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of to seek an effective solution to address the carbon Commons Commission, who the House of Commons emissions from all highly polluting crudes, including oil Commission consulted before taking the decision to shale. introduce charges for visiting the Clock Tower; on what basis the amount charged was decided; and if he will Transport: Industrial Disputes make a statement. [98396] John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for John Thurso: The proposal to charge for visiting the Transport what her policy is on the use of (a) recruitment Clock Tower was included in the package of proposed companies, (b) subsidiaries and (c) in-house recruitment initial savings, on which Members, Members’ staff and processes to provide labour during periods of industrial House staff were consulted in November 2010. Members action in the transport sector. [R] [96659] were sent a letter from the Chair of the Finance and Norman Baker: The Department for Transport does Services Committee inviting comments on the proposals. not have a specific policy on the use of recruitment The Chair’s message and the consultation document companies, subsidiaries or in-house recruitment processes were published on the intranet. to provide labour during periods of industrial action in Once the House of Commons Commission had considered the transport sector, but would expect transport businesses the proposals following consultation, Mr Speaker sent a to comply with the law, in particular with the Conduct message to all Members on 14 December 2010 announcing of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses the agreed savings package. Mr Speaker’s message and Regulations 2003 which prohibit employment businesses the agreed savings package can be found on the intranet. from knowingly supplying replacement workers in an The package of agreed savings was also published on official industrial dispute. Parliament’s website: http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commonscommission/ Commons_Management_Board/HoC_agreed_savings.pdf HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION Following agreement that the cost of Clock Tower tours should be covered through the introduction of Big Ben: Tourism charging as part of the savings programme, Visitor Mr Amess: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, Services managers calculated the appropriate charge. Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of The ticket price of £15 has been set to cover the cost of Commons Commission, (1) what assessment the House the tours operation, taking into account VAT and assuming of Commons Commission has made of the likely a take-up rate of 90%. The ticket price and administrative number of persons booking tours of the Clock Tower arrangements, were reported to the Administration following the introduction of charges; and if he will Committee on 30 January 2012. The £15 ticket price is in line with other commercial tours at Parliament—tours make a statement; [98388] of the Visitor Route and the specialist art and architecture (2) who will administer the charges to visit the Clock tours—details of which can be found on Parliament’s Tower; and if he will make a statement. [98395] website: John Thurso: There is an annual capacity of around http://www.parliament.uk/visiting/ 10,400 spaces on Clock Tower tours. During the 2011 calendar year 9,319 visitors participated in the tours. Catering Given the popularity of Clock Tower tours, we do not expect any significant fall in demand. The ticket price has been set to cover the cost of the tours’ operation, Mr Amess: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, taking into account VAT and assuming a take-up rate Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of of 90%. Commons Commission how many bookings were made by (a) hon. Members, (b) staff of hon. Members and The Visitor Services team will administer the charges (c) other pass holders for the Strangers Dining Room to visit the Clock Tower. in each of the last six months for which information is Mr Amess: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, available. [98390] Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of Commons Commission, what representations the John Thurso: Bookings in the dining rooms are identified House of Commons Commission has received (a) in two categories only: (a) hon. Members and (b) supporting and (b) opposing the introduction of other pass holders. Bookings for the Strangers’ Dining visitor charges for visiting the Clock Tower; and if he Room in each of the last six months by each of these will make a statement. [98389] categories of users were as follows: 765W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 766W

Grant Shapps: £23.7 million has been allocated to the MPs Other pass holders UK-wide Coastal Communities Fund in 2012-13, but 2011 there has been no expenditure to date as funding only September 256 8 becomes available on 1 April. Funds can be made available for infrastructure and running costs. The new October 382 36 fund is being delivered in partnership with the Big November 375 40 Lottery Fund (BIG), who will be holding a series of December 285 18 pre-application workshops to assist organisations, including smaller groups, who may wish to apply for a grant. 2012 There is also a BIG advice line—0845 410 20 30. January 282 16 February 246 14 Fire Services: Emergency Calls

Mr Amess: To ask the hon. Member for Caithness, Gareth Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for Sutherland and Easter Ross, representing the House of Communities and Local Government how many (a) Commons Commission, how many bookings were made genuine and (b) malicious emergency calls were received at the (a) Strangers Dining Room, (b) Churchill Room by Kent Fire and Rescue Service in each of the last and (c) Members’ Dining Room in each month in (i) three years. [98259] 2005, (ii) 2006, (iii) 2008, (iv) 2010 and (v) the most recent month in 2012; and if he will make a statement. Robert Neill: This information is held centrally only [98397] for periods up to 2009-10. Following the consultation on fire and rescue service non-financial annual returns, John Thurso: In accordance with the House of Commons a summary of which can be found at: Records Management Policy, information is held for a http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/fire/ period of three years and therefore no bookings information frsandfosisummaryofresponses is available for (i) 2005, (ii) 2006, or (iii) 2008. Information fire and rescue services are no longer asked to provide for (iv) 2010 is as follows: returns of numbers of emergency calls.

Strangers’ Dining Churchill Dining The data available on the number of malicious false 2010 Room Room alarm calls and all other emergency calls to Kent Fire and Rescue Service for the last three years are shown in January 403 128 the following table: February 430 143 Total emergency calls and malicious false alarms calls, Kent Fire and March 503 252 Rescue Service, 2008-09 to 2010-11 April 86 42 2008-09 2009-10 2010-111 May 209 42 June 388 153 Malicious false 852 766 n/a July 329 274 alarms calls August 1— 1— Other 36,608 33,430 n/a emergency calls September 197 1— Total 37,460 34,196 n/a October 402 173 emergency calls November 477 267 1 Data held centrally only until 2009-10 December 638 147 1 Closed. First Time Buyers (v) The most recent month in 2012 for which information is available is February. During that month, a total of Graham Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for 260 bookings were made for the Strangers’ Dining Communities and Local Government what assessment room and 110 for the Churchill Room. he has made of the number of privately rented properties The hon. Gentleman might find it helpful to speak on access to the property market for first-time buyers. directly to the Director of Catering and Retail Services [98481] on these detailed matters. Andrew Stunell: I am assuming that the hon. Member wishes to know what impact the size of the privately rented sector has on access to the property market for COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT first-time buyers. Access to the housing market for first-time buyers is Coastal Communities Fund largely dependent on access to mortgage finance. The most recent data from the Council of Mortgage Lenders David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for shows that, in 2011, buy to let mortgages accounted for Communities and Local Government what the total 12% of all loans for house purchase. The equivalent spending of the Coastal Communities Fund is to date; figure for first-time buyers is 34%. In terms of value, what the average size of grant is; whether funding is buy to let mortgages only accounted for 8% of total available for both infrastructure projects and for the lending for house purchase. running costs of existing projects; and what assistance At the same time private renting provides a vital his Department offers to smaller groups seeking safety net for those who cannot access home ownership, funding. [98230] as well as a flexible option for those who choose to rent. 767W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 768W

It also underpins economic development by allowing (i) intentionally and (ii) unintentionally homeless in those who cannot sell their existing home the flexibility each of the last five years. [98109] to move to take up employment opportunities. Grant Shapps: The available information is given in the following table. The Department collects information from local authorities on whether or not a household is Homelessness: Greater London intentionally homeless only in those cases where it has decided that the household is homeless and in priority Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for need. The Department does not therefore hold information Communities and Local Government what estimate he on how many of the households that were decided to has made of the number of people in (a) the London be homeless but not in priority need were intentionally borough of Bexley and (b) London who were deemed homeless.

Number of households Eligible, Eligible, homeless unintentionally and in priority Eligible, homeless homeless and in need, but but not in priority Eligible, but not priority need intentionally so need homeless Total decisions

London Borough of Bexley 2006-07 251 19 473 107 850 2007-08 207 26 261 85 579 2008-09 177 27 130 89 423 2009-10 128 7 48 78 261 2010-11 204 37 56 222 519

All London boroughs and the City of London 2006-07 15,390 1,780 6,740 9,550 33,450 2007-08 13,800 1,610 4,890 8,710 29,000 2008-09 12,780 1,930 3,520 9,060 27,290 2009-10 9,460 1,680 3,910 8,100 23,150 2010-11 10,180 1,760 4,450 8,920 25,310 Source: Quarterly PIE returns

Housing Benefit Andrew Stunell: This information is not held centrally. The Regulatory Reform (Housing Assistance) (England Mr Byrne: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Wales) Order 2002 gives local authorities wide and Local Government what funding his Department powers to provide assistance for repairs, improvements, has allocated for the redundancy costs associated with a adaptations and to demolish and re-construct homes. reduction of housing benefit staff in local authorities This assistance may take the form of a grant, loan, upon implementation of universal credit. [94495] equity release, or more practical assistance such as home surveys or small repairs services. Local authorities Steve Webb: I have been asked to reply on behalf of must have policies in place setting out how they will use the Department for Work and Pensions. these powers and they must make summaries of their The Department for Work and Pensions is working policy available. with the Department for Communities and Local Government, the devolved Administrations and the local authority associations to understand the impact Housing: Construction on cost and associated resource of the introduction of universal credit and housing costs for pensioners on current local authority benefit services. Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State We are working together to develop and understand for Communities and Local Government what recent the service design and migration process, a detailed estimate he has made of the number of houses for migration schedule and the impact of universal credit in which planning permission has been obtained but the context of the wider welfare reform. Only then will which have not yet been built in (a) England and (b) we be able to assess the implications for local authority Gloucestershire. [97836] resource and associated costs. Robert Neill [holding answer 5 March 2012]: The Housing Improvement: Finance number of dwellings where permission has been granted but where development has not yet started as at 31 Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for December 2011 is estimated at 229,177 units for England. Communities and Local Government which local A breakdown by local authority for Gloucestershire authorities in England provide renovation grants for (including the unitary authority of South Gloucestershire) owner-occupiers and private tenants. [98707] is given in the following table: 769W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 770W

Robert Neill: The Department has not commissioned Units with planning permission which had not started on site research on the area of land not covered by national- recognised land designations. Cheltenham 392 This information can be derived from publicly available Cotswold 389 data, for example digital maps of the various national-land Forest of Dean 367 designations are available from the Department for Gloucester 766 Farming and Rural Affair mapping website: South Gloucestershire 142 http://magic.defra.gov.uk/ Stroud 611 Tewkesbury 912 Land: Sales Gloucestershire 3,579 Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities This information is collected by Glenigan on behalf and Local Government what assessment he has made of of the Homes and Communities Agency. Glenigan only the effectiveness of legislation governing the sale of track “large” schemes which are defined as those with land by (a) individuals, (b) private companies and (c) 10 or more units (although some schemes with fewer statutory or public authorities and the role of local than 10 units are included which have sufficient value to authorities to (i) block and (ii) take pre-emptive action be classified as “large”). against decisions which are not in the local interest. The Government are taking a number of steps to [98037] help unlock development on sites with planning permission: The £420 million Get Britain Building Fund will help get Andrew Stunell: The Localism Act 2011 increases the builders back on stalled housing sites with planning permission powers of local authorities to tackle unauthorised that have been shut down because of difficulties in accessing development and the abuse of retrospective planning development finance; permission. We are proposing to allow reconsideration of planning obligations The Act also introduces new community rights which agreed prior to April 2010 where development is stalled. We have will give local residents greater opportunities to influence already encouraged local authorities to be flexible in reviewing development in their areas, bid to buy local assets that Section 106 agreements; are important to them and bid to run local services The £500 million Growing Places Fund will support infrastructure differently and better. that unblocks housing and economic growth; and In relation to guidance to local authorities on the sale The NewBuy Guarantee scheme brings lenders, builders and Government together to offer mortgages on new-build properties of properties, I refer the hon. Member to my answer of with a fraction of the deposit currently required, which in turn 2 February 2012, Official Report, column 731W. will encourage house builders to build more homes. As the impact assessment made clear, a review of the Localism Act’s provision will be conducted in the normal way. Land: Planning Permission

Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Local Government: Calderdale Communities and Local Government what the status will be of (a) Rural Buffer Zones, (b) Areas of Great Mrs Riordan: To ask the Secretary of State for Landscape Value, (c) Areas of Special Landscape, (d) Communities and Local Government (1) whether he Areas of Special County Value, (e) Land of Local plans to merge Calderdale and Kirklees councils; Landscape Importance, (f) Green Wedges and (g) [96923] other local landscape designations following proposed (2) what plans he has to re-draw the boundaries of reforms to planning. [96463] Calderdale council. [96922]

Robert Neill: The National Planning Policy Framework, Robert Neill: We have no plans to impose local which we are committed to publishing by the end of government restructuring, as evident from this March, will set out our policies for the planning system. Government’s implementation of the Local Government The draft framework we published for consultation in Act 2010 which cancelled the last Administration’s 2011 underlined the importance of local planning in unitary restructuring. Such restructuring would be protecting and enhancing the natural environment, expensive, diverting time and resources away from improving including landscapes, and identifying land which it is frontline services. genuinely important to protect from development. Local planning policy designations in a local plan will continue However, there is considerable scope for greater joint to be a material consideration, and our proposed reforms working and sharing of staff and back office services will mean that local plans have a more important role in between local authorities. Such innovation does not the planning process. need the permission of central Government, especially given the new general power of competence under the Localism Act 2011. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what research he Changes to boundaries are initially a matter for the has (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on the area of independent Local Government Boundary Commission. English land not covered by nationally-recognised land Their guidance is available at: designations. [96464] www.lgbce.org.uk/guidance-policy-and-publications/guidance 771W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 772W

Local Government: Complaints Robert Neill [holding answer 20 February 2012]: I refer the right hon. Member to the written ministerial statement of 20 February 2012, Official Report, 63WS. Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what estimate he Planning Permission has made of the number of complaints submitted to local authority standards committees in 2011; and Mr Scott: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities whether he has made any assessment of the number of and Local Government what steps he is taking to transfer such complaints that were upheld. [98291] further planning powers from regional and national level to local councils. [96852] Robert Neill: We have made no such estimates. Robert Neill: Decentralising planning powers is a key Local Government: North East element of the Government’s planning reforms. The Localism Act has removed the regional planning tier which will prevent the creation of new regional strategies Guy Opperman: To ask the Secretary of State for and the top down targets they imposed on local councils Communities and Local Government what steps he is and communities. The Government also intend to abolish taking to devolve power to cities and towns in the the existing regional strategies outside London subject North East. [98465] to the outcome of environmental assessments that we are currently undertaking. Greg Clark: The Government are taking considerable Our reforms will enable local councils to take the lead steps to devolve power to cities and towns both in the in planning for growth and development in their areas, North East and across the country. working closely with local communities. We are helping We have introduced the Localism Act giving councils councils by providing them with more control and the general power of competence that enables councils flexibility when they are preparing local plans. to do anything that an individual might, apart from that The Government have also introduced radical new which is specifically prohibited. powers to enable local communities to establish We are committed to devolving powers to elected neighbourhood plans. These plans give citizens the mayors, to ensure that our biggest cities are genuine right to shape the development and growth of their drivers of economic growth, for the benefit of both the local area and identify where development should occur. city and the surrounding area. In May, we will see Once these plans come into force, they will form part of referendums on elected mayors in 10 of our largest the local plan which is the basis on which planning cities including Newcastle. However, the option to have applications are determined. an elected mayor is not restricted to cities; councils can Planning Permission: Incinerators resolve to move to the mayoral model or hold a mayoral referendum in their area. Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for We are also working to deliver a series of ’city deals’. Communities and Local Government how many We have invited the core cities and their wider economic planning appeals in respect of incinerators were areas to negotiate the devolution of the specific powers, considered by the Planning Inspectorate in each resources and responsibilities required to meet locally- planning category in each of the last five years; and determined economic and social objectives. In return, what proportion of such appeals in each category were cities will need to accept a proportionate degree of risk (a) upheld and (b) dismissed. [94776] and demonstrate a strong governance structure. Robert Neill: The following table shows the number Local Government: Pay of planning appeals in respect of incinerators in each category allowed and upheld for each of the last five complete calendar years. Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government whether he has Decision issued guidance to local authorities on the payment of year Procedure Allowed Upheld Total senior local government staff other than through PAYE for tax advantage reasons. [94655] 2007 Written ——— representation Hearing — — — Robert Neill [holding answer 9 February 2012]: I refer the right hon. Member to the written ministerial statement Local inquiry — — — of 20 February 2012, Official Report, column 63WS. The Secretary of State for Communities and Local 2008 Written ——— Government has also written to the Local Government representation Association asking them to consider how they can Hearing — — — encourage the sector to take action on tackling tax Local inquiry — — — avoidance. 2009 Written —11 Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for representation Communities and Local Government whether any Hearing — — — senior staff in local government have made tax efficient Local inquiry 1 — 1 payment arrangements. [95010] 773W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 774W

I also strongly encourage councils to not ignore the Decision year Procedure Allowed Upheld Total opportunity this scheme offers to help reinstate better weekly collections while helping to drive down costs and boost environmental performance. 2010 Written ——— representation Hearing — — — NORTHERN IRELAND Local inquiry — — — High Profile Anniversaries 2011 Written ——— representation 9. Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Hearing — — — Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with the Local inquiry 4 1 5 Northern Ireland Executive on the commemoration of high profile anniversaries. [97682]

Grand total 5 2 7 12. Mr Marcus Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with Urban Areas: Planning Permission the Northern Ireland Executive on the commemoration of high profile anniversaries. [97686] Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many retail Mr Swire: Both the Secretary of State for Northern developments proposed for out-of-town locations have Ireland, my right hon. Friend the Member for North been (a) notified to and (b) called in by him in each Shropshire (Mr Paterson), and I regularly meet with the year since 2008; what each such development was; and First Minister, deputy First Minister and other Executive what the outcome of the planning process was in each Ministers to discuss relevant issues including the forthcoming decade of key anniversaries. case. [96634] Corporation Tax Robert Neill: On the basis of available records, no retail developments proposed for out-of-town locations 10. David Mowat: To ask the Secretary of State for have been notified to and called in by the Secretary of Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with the State for Communities and Local Government since Chancellor of the Exchequer on differential levels of 2008. corporation tax for different regions in the UK. [97683]

Urban Areas: Regeneration Mr Paterson: I have had several discussions on this matter with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne). The Communities and Local Government what steps his Ministerial Working Group meets again this afternoon Department is taking to disseminate best practice learned and is considering the practicalities and implications of from urban regeneration at the Olympic Park. [98252] the potential devolution of powers to vary the corporation tax rate to the Northern Ireland Executive. Grant Shapps: The Olympic Delivery Authority Learning Legacy project is disseminating how the development of Eurozone the Olympic Park has set a new direction for the way major regeneration projects can be delivered in the UK 13. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern and internationally. Ireland what assessment he has made of the effect of The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors economic conditions in the eurozone on Northern Ireland. commissioned external research into the regeneration [97687] legacy and the impact of the 2012 Games in September 2011. It found that the London 2012 project had secured Mr Swire: The eurozone is our largest trading partner a positive physical regeneration legacy through the early and 5.8% of UK exports in goods and services go to the onset of legacy planning and unequivocal support from Republic of Ireland. I am in regular contact with the UK Government and by involving a wide range of Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. Friend the different stakeholders. Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), who is closely monitoring the conditions in the eurozone and its effect on the UK economy. Waste Management Security Mr Betts: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government which councils that currently Mr Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern collect refuse in alternate weeks have made a commitment Ireland what recent assessment he has made of the to return to a weekly collection service. [97601] security situation in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement. [97685] Robert Neill [holding answer 5 March 2012]: We launched the Weekly Collection Support Scheme on Mr Paterson: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the 3 February; the deadline for expressions of interest is answer I gave today to the hon. Member for Mid 16 March. Derbyshire (Pauline Latham). 775W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 776W

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS For building work the building regulations require that the structural safety of buildings shall not be Agriculture: Droughts affected by any movements caused by swelling, shrinkage or freezing of the ground. Supporting statutory guidance Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for gives practical advice on meeting this requirement by Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps her providing minimum founding depths for common Department is taking to protect the farming industry foundation types. This includes foundations constructed against future droughts. [98190] in ground prone to volume change as a consequence of seasonal climatic conditions and also drought. The Richard Benyon: We are ensuring close working between regulations are subject to ongoing review. farmers and the Environment Agency to make sure all While the Government recognise that drought can available water for abstractors this growing season is affect road surfaces as a result of the lack of moisture in used as efficiently as possible. We announced in the the soil (particularly in peat soil), causing the soil beneath water White Paper that we will introduce a reformed the road to shrink, it is for highway authorities to water abstraction regime resilient to the challenges of ensure that they undertake scheduled maintenance to climate change and population growth, and this will manage the problems that drought may cause to the help farmers and other abstractors to meet their water road network for which they are responsible. needs efficiently and protect water ecosystems. We will Despite the current severe fiscal restraints we are work closely with stakeholders in designing the new providing £3 billion (to 2014-15) to councils for road system and will establish a national advisory group to maintenance and also provided an additional £200 million guide the process. We plan to consult on proposals in last year for authorities to repair damage caused by 2013, and aim to introduce legislation to reform the severe weather. It is for authorities to decide how to regime early in the next Parliament. allocate these funds, including ensuring they have a Assistance for farmers to build winter storage reservoirs contingency to deal with any emerging maintenance is available through DEFRA’s Rural Development issues, such as drought, that may arise. Programme for England (RDPE). The RDPE has also In 2008 the Department for Transport published a supported training/knowledge transfer regarding irrigation guidance document in order to help local authority management and soil management, as well as a range of highway engineers assess the risk from climate change small water resource projects, for instance with rainwater to their network and take suitable adaptation actions. harvesting equipment. The guidance is available from The Stationery Office. Broadband: Finance Fish: Marketing

Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate £20 million fund for superfast broadband has been her Department has made of the number of supermarket distributed to date; and which communities have received fish products marketed as (a) dolphin friendly, (b) pole funding. [98402] and line caught and (c) sustainably sourced in each of the last five years. [98311] Richard Benyon: The first round for Expressions of Interest under the Rural Community Broadband Fund Richard Benyon: We use figures from the Ethical closed on 31 January.39 Expressions of Interest applications Consumerism Report by the Co-operative Bank. The were received, with a value equivalent to around £12 million data are based on administrative records held by ethical in grant. labelling organisations and trade associations. The last No funding has been distributed to date. Formal five years on record are estimated as follows: assessment of the Expressions of Interest received is currently under way. It is expected that the outcome of Spend (£ million) this assessment process will be notified to applicants Dolphin Friendly during March 2012. Sustainable Fish Tuna For those Expressions of Interests that are endorsed 2005 17 218 to proceed to the next stage, the selected applicants will 2006 55 223 be asked to submit a full application providing the 2007 70 237 detail of the project (including a business plan). No 2008 128 281 funding will be committed to a project until a full 2009 178 1— application has been received, appraised, and approved. 1 The spend on dolphin friendly tuna is not available for 2009. Droughts: Subsidence Source: Ethical Consumerism Reports (ECR). The Co-operative Bank http://www.goodwithmoney.co.uk/ethicalconsumerismreport Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for DEFRA does not hold figures or estimates of pole Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment and line caught supermarket fish products. her Department has made of the effect of the drought on (a) subsidence in buildings and (b) highways; and Pet Animals Act 1951 if she will make a statement. [97992] Jane Ellison: To ask the Secretary of State for Richard Benyon: The potential effects of drought on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans she buildings and highways fall within the competency of a has to amend section 2 of the Pet Animals Act 1951 to number of Government bodies. include (a) public houses and (b) websites. [98173] 777W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 778W

Mr Paice: There are no plans to amend the Pet Animals be no greater than a “normal” summer period. This is Act 1951. due to reduced demand from London residents as a result of the holiday period. Demand from the major River Thames: Sewage events will take place in the late afternoon/evening when demand from commercial buildings will be reduced Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for as many commuters will have left central London. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent The Olympics has been designed to be the most discussions she has had with (a) Thames Water, (b) sustainable modern Olympics. The Olympic Park sports the Environment Agency and (c) Ofwat on the volume venues will use at least 40% less water than equivalent of spoil to be removed and the means of its removal for buildings through the use of water efficient appliances, the construction of the Thames tunnel. [98137] rain water harvesting from roofs, and grey water systems. An innovative membrane bioreactor plant has also Richard Benyon: Thames Water has estimated that been installed to make use of ’black water’ to supply a around 4.6 million tonnes of excavated material would custom non-potable distribution system on the Olympic be generated during construction of the proposed Thames site. tunnel. The eventual contractor will be responsible for the management and handling of the excavated material, Thames Water, the water supplier to the main Olympics and also for ensuring appropriate re-use, treatment, Park, has indicated that if the region does not receive and/or disposal of the material. This is in line with an above average rainfall in the near future it may have to overarching waste strategy which I understand Thames impose restrictions on water usage this summer in line Water is currently finalising in conjunction with the with its drought plan. It does not anticipate that this Environment Agency. I also understand that Thames will affect essential Olympic activities, and it will be Water is undertaking a detailed assessment, following working with London Organising Committee of the waste hierarchy principles, to identify the preferred Olympic and Paralympic Games to minimise non-essential options for the management of the excavated material. water use. Thames Water and the relevant Government This includes removal from riverside construction sites Departments hold regular discussions on this issue. by barge, where it is practical and economic to do so, in Other water companies who supply Olympic venues line with Government planning policy guidance. in areas affected by the risk of drought are taking The Environment Agency has been working with actions in line with their drought plans. As yet there is Thames Water’s Thames tunnel team to produce the no indication that this will affect essential Olympic draft waste strategy, which is available on Thames Water’s activities. Thames tunnel consultation website. The Excavated Materials Options Methodology and Assessment will be available in due course as part of the CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Development Consent Order application process. Tyres: Exports Arts: Asians

Ian Swales: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many illegally for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what funds exported containers of used tyres the Environment were provided to Asian organisations through the (a) Agency recovered in the last 12 months; and how much regularly funded organisations system and (b) Grants such recovery cost. [98056] for the Arts from the Arts Lottery awards programme in each year since 2002. [97496] Richard Benyon: During the calendar year of 2011 the Environment Agency reports that no illegally exported Mr Vaizey: Departmental support for the arts is containers of used tyres were repatriated. channelled through Arts Council England (ACE) which makes funding decisions independently of Government. During the same period, six containers of waste tyres ACE provided the following table that outlines funding destined for export were intercepted and held. They provided to Asian-led organisations since 2002 through were granted permission to proceed only after the Malaysian the Grants for the Arts (GFTAs) funding programme, authorities confirmed they were content. Therefore, and funding allocated to regularly funded organisations they were no recovery costs. (RFOs). Water: Olympic Games 2012 For RFOs, an Asian-led organisation is taken to be an organisation in which more than 50% of their board Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for and senior managements are from Asian or Chinese Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment background. For GFTAs, an Asian-led organisation her Department has made of the extra water requirement has been defined in the same way, as well as individual during the London 2012 Olympics and Paralympics; applicants from an Asian or Chinese background. and what steps it has taken to ensure that supply meets demand during the period of the games. [96756] £ Financial year CFTAs RFOs Total

Richard Benyon: Thames Water has worked with the 2002-03 n/a 2,478,455 2,478,455 Olympic Delivery Authority (ODA) to assess water 2003-04 n/a 799,665 799,665 demands during the Olympic and Paralympic Games. 2004-05 n/a 1,395,161 1,395,161 Based on modelling and experience from previous Olympic 2005-06 1,706,664 951,535 2,658,199 host cities, the ODA expect the demand in London to 779W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 780W

DEFENCE £ Financial year CFTAs RFOs Total Air Training Corps 2006-07 1,778,613 1,745,025 3,523,638 2007-08 1,474,581 912,605 2,387,186 Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 1,260,329 1,747,415 3,007,744 Defence pursuant to the answer of 20 February 2012, 2009-10 1,664,455 768,169 2,432,624 Official Report, column 462W, on Air Training Corps, 2010-11 n/a 1,506,739 1,506,739 what the conclusion was of the assessment of the cost- Totals 7,884,642 12,304,769 20,189,411 effectiveness of the senior management structure of the Air Training Corps which was carried out in January Diamond Jubilee 2012: Medals 2011. [98650] Nick Harvey: The Air Cadet Organisation review of Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for its senior management structure, which began in January Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport for what reasons 2011, has been suspended until the Tri-Service Defence his Department decided not to award the diamond Youth Engagement Review has been completed. jubilee medal to members of St John’s Ambulance; what representations his Department has received on Departmental Disclosure of Information this matter; and if he will make a statement. [98050] Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Hugh Robertson: The diamond jubilee medal is being Defence pursuant to the answer of 17 January 2012, issued using broadly the same criteria as the golden Official Report, column 421W, on the disclosure of jubilee medal in 2002. Medals are therefore being awarded information, if he will publish any interim findings of to serving members of key front line services (armed the inquiry into the unauthorised disclosure of the forces, the police, the Prison Service, ambulance service letter between the former Secretary of State and the and fire and rescue services) who have completed five Prime Minister which appeared in The Daily Telegraph years’ service on and inclusive of the anniversary of the on 28 September 2010. [97911] Queen’s accession on 6 February 2012. The Department has received 43 letters to date on Mr Philip Hammond [holding answer 5 March 2012]: this matter. The person responsible for the leak has not been identified. The investigation remains open. Sports: Young People Future Local Area Air Defence System Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent Mark Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for progress his Department has made in implementing Defence what recent progress he has made on the youth sport strategy, Creating a sporting habit for life. future local area air defence system; and if he will make [98142] a statement. [98333]

Hugh Robertson: The Department is working with Peter Luff: In January, the Ministry of Defence placed Sport England on implementing the YouthSport Strategy a contract valued at some £483 million with MBDA(UK) published in January 2012. This work includes helping for the development of the maritime Future Local Area national governing bodies (NGBs) to develop their Air Defence System (FLAADS(M)), to be known by its plans to increase participation and retention, particularly new name ‘Sea Ceptor’, a future cutting-edge air-defence of young people, in sport. The NGBs will formally system which will replace Sea Wolf on the Royal Navy’s submit their plans alongside their bids for funding, in T-23 frigates until the end of their service life, and is May. Final award offers will be made in January and planned to provide the basis of the air defence capability activity will commence in April 2013. for the T-26 frigates when they enter service. Sport England is also working with the Further Sea Ceptor’s parent programme FLAADS is an Education sector to identify 150 further education colleges important part of the complex weapons portfolio, which that will benefit from a College Sport Maker, with the is delivering the optimal balance of capability and value first grants likely to be in place by the autumn. for money for the armed forces, meeting their requirement for battle winning complex weapons. This is being achieved An important element of the new strategy is to through the development of a family of weapons which increase the community access to sports facilities on will provide greater overall flexibility to meet evolving school premises. Sport England published new guidance requirements, enable shorter development times; and for schools wishing to open their facilities on 2 March achieve significant efficiencies through life. It will also and will be making £10 million available to schools to ensure the UK has continued access to industrial skills help with process. and capabilities that are critical for the sustained provision Sport England is also working with the Local of complex weapons for our armed forces. The Sea Government Associations and Chief Cultural and Leisure Ceptor demonstration phase is expected to take five Officers Association to develop plans to enable local years and will sustain some 500 high technology jobs in authorities, community groups and other partner to bid MBDA UK and its supply chain, in key locations for matched funding to increase and sustain participation across the UK including Stevenage, Filton and Lostock. in sport. It expects to test how best to invest during the This announcement represents further significant investment final quarter 2012-13. in the UK’s high technology industry and supports 781W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 782W wider Government policy towards increasing UK defence Financial year Cost (£) exports as Sea Ceptor is assessed to have excellent export potential. 2010-11 209,000

Military Afloat Reach and Sustainability Programme USA: Military Alliances

Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence when he expects the first Military Afloat reach Defence what assessment he has made of the effects of and sustainability tanker to begin construction; and the measures announced in the recent defence review by when the final such tanker will be delivered. [97052] the US on the UK’s future military co-operation with that country. [97739] Peter Luff: Subject to contract award, construction of the first Military Afloat Reach and Sustainability Mr Philip Hammond: The US Defense Strategic (MARS) tanker is planned to begin in mid-2014. On Guidance, reaches many of the same conclusions as the current plans, the final MARS tanker is scheduled to be UK’s 2010 strategic defence and security review. While delivered into service in 2019. the Defense Strategic Guidance signals a change in some US priorities, it underlines that European allies MOD Bicester will remain the US’ partners of choice. The US will continue to be our most important military ally and we Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence will develop the interoperability and expertise necessary (1) which (a) consultants and (b) consultancy firms to ensure that our armed forces are able to work with were involved in the 2008 restructuring of MOD their US counterparts, both bilaterally and in NATO. Logistics Bicester; [97261] (2) which consultants he employed to assist with the restructuring of MOD Logistics Bicester in 2008; and BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS what the daily rate was of each such consultant; [97234] (3) how much his Department has paid to interim Departmental Responsibilities directors of logistics in (a) Bicester and (b) Donnington in each year since 2008; [97297] Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for (4) how much his Department paid to consultants Business, Innovation and Skills what steps his Department for MOD Logistics in (a) 2006-07, (b) 2007-08, (c) is taking to improve (a) private sector and business and 2008-09 and (d) 2009-10. [97298] (b) third sector and non-governmental organisation expertise among officials in his Department. [98624] Peter Luff [holding answer 29 February 2012]: The restructuring of the former Defence Storage and Norman Lamb: The Department for Business, Innovation Distribution Agency (DSDA), of which Logistic Services and Skills has launched an outreach programme designed Bicester was a part, was considered under the Future to encourage staff members to spend 1-2 days a year Defence Supply Chain Initiative (FDSCi) which concluded with other organisations. These organisations can include in 2007. In August 2010, DSDA relinquished its agency businesses, universities, further education colleges, charities status and its responsibilities were absorbed into DE&S, and third sector organisations and social enterprises to its parent organisation. learn about how they operate and the challenges they Consultancy assistance used to support the FDSCi face. So far 440 staff members (17% of the Department) was not provided on a site-by-site basis and information have undertaken visits, with 95% saying the visits were a that can be directly attributed to Logistic Services Bicester good use of their time and helped them do their jobs or Logistics Services Donnington is not available. The more effectively. In addition those officials working on management consultancy firms engaged in supporting Enterprise spend a week in a small business each year. FDSCi were Wallace Walker and Deloitte. The Department also participated in the National I am withholding information about the daily rate Council for Voluntary Organisations’ ’A Day in the paid to consultants employed by Wallace Walker and Life...’ scheme which provided a unique opportunity for Deloitte as its disclosure would prejudice commercial 100 BIS staff and voluntary and community sector interests. Similarly, I am withholding the names of organisations to step into each others shoes for a day those consultants as this is personal information. and learn about how each operates. The total cost of consultancy assistance provided to Departmental Secondment the former DSDA in financial years 2006-07 and 2007-08 was £3.67 million and £0.20 million respectively (the Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for former was attributed to FDSCi). No such costs were Business, Innovation and Skills what his Department’s incurred in financial years 2008-09 and 2009-10. policy is on (a) inward and (b) outward secondments The cost of interim directors employed by the former to the (i) private sector and (ii) third sector and DSDA, and after August 2010, by logistic services non-governmental organisations. [98623] DE&S, are shown in the following table: Norman Lamb: It is the Department for Business, Financial year Cost (£) Innovation and Skills’ policy to encourage exchanges 2008-09 489,000 by way of (a) inward and (b) outward secondments between the (i) private sector and (ii) third sector and 2009-10 263,000 non-governmental organisations and the Department. 783W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 784W

Inward secondments enable the Department to improve Mr Willetts: The criteria for designation are set out in staffs’ capabilities by learning and by sharing knowledge the Education (Student Support) Regulations 2011 and and expertise with private sector, third sector and non include course type, duration and mode of study. Courses governmental organisations. The individual on secondment must also be validated by a recognised UK awarding gets a development opportunity to broaden their body such as a university. This provides quality assurance. understanding of how Government works. Outward Where private providers are applying for specific secondments are similarly beneficial in terms of exchanging designation of a course for the first time BIS undertakes information and providing increased staff development due diligence checks. These checks include consideration opportunities, while supporting individuals to achieve of management and governance, financial stability and their career aspirations. longevity of an organisation. If the Department is satisfied that the course meets the course eligibility Financial Services: Conveyancing criteria; and that the provider does not pose a risk to the use of public funds; the course is specifically designated. Mr Brady: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will take steps to ensure that Industry: Water shared equity schemes subsidised by the taxpayer cannot be operated by banks or financial services firms that operate restricted panels of conveyancers. [98262] Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills if he will make it his Mr Hoban: I have been asked to reply on behalf of policy to encourage water using industries to relocate the Treasury. to English regions where there is no water shortage. [98287] The Government are aware that several banks have recently made changes to the membership of their Mr Prisk: No. Decisions on location are best made conveyancing panels. by businesses themselves, taking account of all relevant Commercial decisions remain a matter for the boards factors including water supply. of banks and building societies, and the Government do not seek to intervene in these decisions. Office of Fair Access: Manpower Foreign Investment in UK John Glen: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many staff he expects to be Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for employed by the Office of Fair Access in (a) 2011-12 Business, Innovation and Skills how many (a) regional and (b) 2012-13. [98194] inward investment organisations or (b) local enterprise partnerships have signed memorandums of understanding Mr Willetts: This is a matter for the Director of Fair with UK Trade and Investment to enable them to access Access. This year we have increased the budget of the international inward investment opportunities. [98306] Office for Fair Access (OFFA) from £484,000 to over £700,000 and I understand that 11 staff are currently Mr Prisk [holding answer 6 March 2012]: The employed at OFFA, excluding the Director. information requested is as follows. (a) The nine regional development agencies gave up their The Government have committed through the White inward investment responsibilities at the end of March 2011 as Paper to strengthen OFFA so it can provide a more part of their forthcoming closure following abolition. The devolved active and energetic challenge and support to universities Administrations have all signed memoranda of understanding and colleges. In the White Paper, we said we will make (MoUs) with United Kingdom Trade and Investment (UKTI). significantly more resources available, increasing capacity (b) UKTI now works at the local level through the 39 Local up to around four times its original level, and equipping Enterprise Partnerships (LEPs) and, where appropriate, their OFFA to use fully its powers to promote access and respective investment agency. 37 of the LEPs have signed an MoU monitor and review Access Agreements. with UKTI. UKTI is in negotiation with the Greater London authority to sign an MoU on inward investment co-operation. We are discussing OFFA’s budget for 2012-13 with the current Director to ensure he has the resources he Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for needs to discharge his responsibilities effectively. The Business, Innovation and Skills how many (a) regional new Director for Fair Access will take up the role later inward investment agencies or (b) local enterprise this year and we will want to discuss the issue of partnerships who have signed a memorandum of resources with him at the earliest opportunity. understanding have completed the National School of Government e-Learning course. [98307] Overseas Trade: Egypt

Mr Prisk [holding answer 6 March 2012]: 40 people Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for so far (out of 104 applications) have completed the Business, Innovation and Skills what information his National School of Government e-learning course. Department holds on export contracts with the Egyptian government under UK Export Finance that are for Higher Education military use. [96517]

Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for Norman Lamb: I refer the hon. Member to the reply Business, Innovation and Skills what factors he takes given on 12 December 2011, Official Report, column into account when designating a higher education 527W, to the hon. Member for Hackney South and course. [98841] Shoreditch (Meg Hillier). 785W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 786W

South West Regional Development Agency: Pay Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what criteria his Department used to determine which universities to Jake Berry: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, invite to attend meetings about establishing a university Innovation and Skills whether staff employed by the teaching school; on which dates universities that had South West England Development Agency received expressed an interest were invited to attend such retention bonuses after the announcement by the meetings; and which universities attended the meetings; Government of the abolition of regional development [98304] agencies. [98376] (2) which universities have registered an interest in establishing a university teaching school. [98414] Mr Prisk: The eight regional development agencies have put in place arrangements to secure the retention of key staff until the agencies are closed. They have Mr Gibb: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the made these arrangements with the approval of the Department for Education. Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, In the White Paper: ’The Importance of Teaching’, the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable), we said that we would invite higher education providers and HM Treasury. This is to safeguard the taxpayer’s of initial teacher training to open university training interest in the efficient and timely closure of the agencies. schools. Officials from the Department and the Training A retention payment process had been recommended to and Development Agency have been responding to be put into place by the National Audit Office. At the universities who have expressed an interest. The Department South West Regional Development Agency to date, two has not published formal criteria as yet so has not staff have received retention payments on completing invited any universities to attend meetings. Our working their duties when they were made redundant. assumption has been that universities will run a school, provide outstanding initial teacher training and continuing Trading Standards professional development and undertake research. We aim to make an announcement shortly. Independent of this announcement, the Institute of Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Education, in partnership with a group of parents, Innovation and Skills what recent estimate he has made submitted an application last year. As the Free School of the number of problems for consumers arising from bid had many of the features of a prospective university faulty goods and services purchased within the last 12 training school all of the parties involved agreed to months; what assessment he has made of the total develop the proposal as a pathfinder UTS and this is consumer detriment arising from faulty goods and services; now progressing through the Department’s Free School and if he will make a statement. [98278] application process. The university of Birmingham has also registered an interest in setting up a university Norman Lamb: Between 1 March 2011 and 29 February training school as part of their proposals submitted this 2012, 255,000 consumers contacted Consumer Direct year. about faulty goods and services, which represents 28% Universities, which would like to discuss their plans of all consumer problems reported to them. Based on to set up a university training school, should contact the reported value of these faulty goods or services, Michele Marr at the Training and Development Agency Consumer Direct estimate the total value of the goods (TDA) at: and services involved at around £344 million, but this value is not necessarily the same as the actual losses [email protected] suffered or the detriment caused. However, it is difficult to estimate with any certainty the total number of problems arising from faulty goods and services and any consequent consumer detriment if the problems are ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE not satisfactorily resolved because most issues do not result in any formal complaint. Departmental Ethnic Minority Staff Consumer detriment is particularly difficult to define and measure. However, in 2008 the Office of Fair Trading Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy (OFT) estimated that one type of detriment—that suffered and Climate Change how many and what proportion by consumers post-transaction—amounted to £6.6 billion of senior civil servants in his Department were from an per annum arising out of an estimated 26.5 million ethnic minority in March (a) 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) cases of consumer mistreatment. 2012; and if he will make a statement. [98874]

University Technical Colleges Gregory Barker: The number and proportion of senior civil servants in the Department for Energy and Climate Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Change are shown in the following table: Innovation and Skills what recent discussions (a) he and (b) officials in his Department have had with the Date Number Proportion (%) Department for Education on the establishment of March 2010 3 4 [98302] university teaching schools. March 2011 3 3 December 20111 44 Mr Willetts: There have been no recent discussions 1 The data for March 2012 are not yet available but will be published on the establishment of university training schools. in our annual accounts. The data shown are the latest available. 787W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 788W

The full diversity data for our senior civil servants are http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/corporate-publications/ published in our annual accounts, the latest of which ministers-meetings-overseas.shtml can be viewed at: Information for the period 1 July 2011 to 31 December http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/about/our_goals/ 2011 has yet to be published. annual_reports/annual_reports.aspx Carer’s Allowance Natural Gas: Exploration Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for and Pensions how many people ceased to receive Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has carer’s allowance due to receipt of (a) a pension and made of the scientific study undertaken by the US (b) another income replacement benefit in (i) England, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and (ii) the North West and (iii) Cumbria in each of the last the University of Colorado, Boulder, on the leakage five years. [98653] levels of methane gas from drilling for shale gas published in Nature on 9 February 2012; and what requirements Maria Miller: Information on why a person no longer there are on companies drilling for shale gas in the UK receives carer’s allowance is not collected. to monitor and publicly report levels of methane leakage. [98398] Housing Benefit

Charles Hendry: The Environment Agency has Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work commissioned a study to investigate the monitoring and and Pensions how many people’s local housing allowance control of unplanned emissions of methane from was paid direct to their landlord in (a) the London unconventional gas operations which will include a borough of Bexley and (b) London in the latest period survey of the relevant literature. This study will help the for which figures are available. [97426] agency to understand how fugitive emissions can be quantified, managed and minimised. Steve Webb: The information is in the following table: DECC petroleum production licences contain provisions Housing benefit claimants subject to local housing allowance, that require the licensee to prevent the escape of November 2011 hydrocarbons, and there are controls on the venting of London gas within the Energy Act 1976. DECC has also borough of commissioned a separate piece of research which will London Bexley assess how we should incorporate any methane emissions Housing benefit claimants subject 218,320 4,160 from this activity in our greenhouse gas inventory, to local housing allowance which forms the basis for our international emissions Of which paid to landlord 49,520 990 reporting obligation under the Kyoto protocol. Notes: 1. The figures refer to benefit units which may be a single person or a Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs couple. 2. The figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for 3. SHBE is a monthly electronic scan of claimant level data direct from local authority computer systems. Over time this will improve Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made the accuracy, timeliness and level, of detail available in the published of the expected levels of take-up for the Green Deal in statistics, as the information supplied is quality assured. relation to households installing photovoltaics. [96544] Source: Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE) Gregory Barker: The Green Deal may offer an attractive Mortgages: Government Assistance route to householders considering installing solar PV and wishing to improve the energy performance of their Mr Raynsford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work property in order to be eligible for the highest tariffs and Pensions how many older people in receipt of available under the feed-in tariffs scheme, but we have pension credit and payments towards housing cost, not quantified this. excluding housing benefit, are in receipt of a support for mortgage interest payment to meet the interest cost on loans taken out for the purpose of undertaking WORK AND PENSIONS home improvements; and what the average weekly payment in such cases was in the latest period for which figures Atos Healthcare are available. [96667]

Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for Steve Webb: The information is not available. Work and Pensions when (a) he and (b) Ministers in The Department’s administrative data cannot reliably his Department have met the chief executive officer of identify people who receive support in respect of home Atos since May 2010; and what was discussed on each improvement loans, as they are often consolidated into occasion. [97121] the main mortgage loan.

Chris Grayling: This Department has published on a Nuclear Information quarterly basis since October 2009, details of all ministerial meetings with external organisations. The information Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Work you have requested can be found via the attached link to and Pensions what rules have been made by the Office the Department’s website: for Nuclear Regulation to prevent the unauthorised 789W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 790W transmission of nuclear information; and whether he is provisions of the Welfare Reform Act 2012 excluding aware of any breaches of any such rules. [96331] those households which are exempted in the latest period for which figures are available. [98313] Chris Grayling: It is the responsibility of all staff of the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) to ensure that Chris Grayling: In the borough of Halton it is estimated HSE’s assets are given adequate protection, including that fewer than 100 households will be affected by the the security of the information they use. This responsibility cap, when it is introduced in the financial year 2013-14. includes staff of the Office for Nuclear Regulation, The combined total for Cheshire East, Cheshire West which is an agency within HSE. Guidance to ensure and Chester, and Warrington authority areas is 300 staff are able to understand and adhere to HSE security households. The combined total for Liverpool, St. Helens, policies and practices is published on HSE’s intranet. Sefton, Wirral and Knowsley authority areas is 1,000 The guidance is fully open under Open Government households. The estimate for England as a whole is provisions. 61,600 households. A breach of these policies and practices occurred in The figures presented above are consistent with the November 2011. While abroad, a member of ONR recent Impact Assessment published on 23 January personnel lost an unencrypted USB pen driver containing 2012. This assumes that the situation of these households safety information about a UK nuclear power station. will go unchanged, and they will not take any steps to The document was marked ‘restricted’ but did not either work enough hours to qualify for working tax contain any significantly sensitive information. An internal credit, renegotiate their rent in situ, or find alternative investigation was conducted and work is in hand to accommodation. In all cases the Department is working ensure that lessons are learnt. to support households through this transition, using existing provision through Jobcentre Plus and the Work Pensions Programme to move as many into work as possible. It is important to note that these estimates were John Glen: To ask the Secretary of State for Work produced before the additional easements announced and Pensions what estimate he has made of the cost of on 1 February which included the exemption of households administering an increase in the basic state pension of who were in receipt of the support component of 25 pence for recipients over the age of 80. [98193] employment and support allowance and a nine-month grace period for claimants who were in work for Steve Webb: The 25p increase in state pensions, the 52 weeks or more before the start of their claim. This Age Addition, is currently made to recipients aged 80 or means that these figures are subject to change. over. Payments are made automatically as part of the person’s ongoing state pension entitlement. The DWP Social Security Benefits: Hyndburn does not maintain data on the specific administrative costs of Age Addition. Graham Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Redundancy: Private Sector Work and Pensions how many people in the Hyndburn borough council area receive combined benefits at the rate of (a) £2,000, (b) £1,600 and (c) £1,000 a month Susan Elan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for which will be affected by the benefits cap proposed in Work and Pensions how many people were made the Welfare Reform Bill. [97192] redundant from jobs in the private sector in each of the last three years. [98779] Chris Grayling: The information requested about the combined benefits that people receive is not available. Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the Cabinet Office. On 23 January 2012 the Department published an updated impact assessment for the household benefit The information requested falls within the responsibility cap. This estimated that in the first year of its of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the Authority implementation (the financial year 2013-14), in Great to reply. Britain 67,000 households would be affected by the cap. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated March 2012: On 6 February, the breakdown of the number of households As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I we expect to be affected in each local authority was have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking deposited in the House of Commons Library. how many people were made redundant from jobs in the private On the basis of this impact assessment, fewer than sector in each of the last three years [98779]. 100 households in the Hyndburn borough council area The requested information is not available. Official estimates will be affected. It is important to note that these of redundancies are derived from the Labour Force Survey. However, the details required to identify how many of those estimates were produced before the additional easements redundancies are in the private sector are not collected. announced on 1 February which included the exemption of households who were in receipt of the support Social Security Benefits component of employment and support allowance and a nine-month grace period for claimants who were in Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for Work work for 52 weeks or more before the start of their and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 7 February claim. 2012, Official Report, column 238W, on social security This means that these figures are subject to change, benefits, how many working-age households in (a) the ahead of the Welfare Reform Bill gaining Royal Assent. Borough of Halton, (b) Cheshire, (c) Merseyside and We will consider the scope for further analysis of the (d) England were in receipt of benefits that totalled households when we prepare the revised impact assessment more than the proposed benefit cap under the following Royal Assent. 791W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 792W

As set out in the impact assessment, these figures are 10,000 and 12,000 social housing sector housing benefit based on the assumption that the situation of these customers nationwide. One of the key aims of these households will go unchanged, and they will not take projects is to look at the range and level of support that any steps to either work enough hours to qualify for different customers will need to help them to manage working tax credit, renegotiate their rent in situ, or find their finances, including how intervention can be best alternative accommodation. In practice, for all of these targeted if they start to struggle with meeting payments. households the Department is working to support In exceptional circumstances, alternative payment households through this transition, using existing provision arrangements may be needed to support them in the through Jobcentre Plus and the Work programme to move to universal credit. We are working with housing move as many into work as possible. associations, local authorities and claimant representative Social Security Benefits: Northern Ireland groups to determine the circumstances in which we would consider making such alternative arrangements. This work will be informed by the outcome of the Dr McCrea: To ask the Secretary of State for Work demonstration projects, factoring in independent evaluation and Pensions (1) what representations he has received of the projects conducted by the Centre for Regional from voluntary organisations in Northern Ireland over Economic and Social Research. his proposed benefit reform; [93550] (2) what discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive over his proposed benefit reform. [93551] INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

Chris Grayling: Welfare Reform will bring significant Conflict Prevention benefits to people throughout the United Kingdom including that work will always pay, targeted support Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for for disabled people, fairness and equality, affordability International Development what measures his Department and simplification. plans to use to assess the effectiveness of its governance Northern Ireland is responsible for its own social and conflict programme. [97811] security system. However, there is an expectation that the NI and GB systems will operate in parallel under Mr O’Brien: The Department for International what is termed the parity principle. Under this arrangement Development (DFID) measures the effectiveness of its the same benefits are paid at the same rates subject to governance and conflict work at both country and the same conditions and rules. To achieve this aim aggregate levels. Information on how we measure progress discussions take place regularly with the Northern Ireland against our objectives is available on the DFID website. Executive on all new legislation at both a ministerial The DFID Business Plan and Results Frameworks include and official level. indicators for our governance and conflict programmes; for example, ″Number of women and girls with improved Northern Ireland stakeholders have responded to access to security and justice services through DFID consultation exercises on measures in the GB Bill and support″. the Northern Ireland Executive has also carried out its own separate consultation exercises. Ministers have met All DFID Country Offices have published Operational with a wide range of organisations to discuss the Bill. Plans which will be revised annually. Each contains a results framework setting out the high level outcomes Universal Credit: Housing Benefit we are seeking to achieve, including governance and conflict results. Progress is reported annually. Ann Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Individual conflict and governance programmes set and Pensions what the number of weeks’ rent arrears out specific results they intend to achieve through their will be which will trigger direct payment of housing lifetime. Effectiveness in achieving these results is regularly benefit on the application of a social landlord monitored, and assessed in a project completion report following the introduction of universal credit. [97097] at the end of the programme. In addition, all DFID Country Offices are required Chris Grayling: The Government are committed to to develop, publish and implement an evaluation strategy, supporting, working-age recipients of housing benefit in accordance with international best practice guidelines make the transition to a single monthly direct payment set out by the OECD. A number of Country Offices of benefit as part of universal credit. This change is plan to have evaluations of projects in the area of seen as key to helping people develop the financial governance over the next few years. management skills required to move with ease from benefits into work by mirroring a regular salary.Maintaining Corruption single payment is also important so that claimants can see clearly the effect of their decisions about work on Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for total household income. International Development if he will place in the Although most of those in the private rented sector Library a copy of the report on UK anti-corruption are already used to receiving their payments directly policy which was recently prepared for his Department. and managing their finances accordingly, it is recognised [97860] that for others, including many in the social rented sector, the change may raise additional challenges. Mr Duncan: Copies of the report “Enhancing Action On 19 January, DWP announced five housing benefit against international Corruption Annual Review 2011”, demonstration projects which will involve selected local referred to in The Times newspaper on 22 February authorities, housing association partnerships and between 2012, will be deposited in the House Library. 793W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 794W

Developing Countries: Health Services Private Sector

Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what steps his Department International Development what measures his Department is taking to help pharmaceutical companies assist with plans to use to assess the effectiveness of its private the development of (a) HIV/AIDS, (b) tuberculosis, sector programme. [97810] (c) malaria, (d) maternity and (e) other health programmes in developing countries. [98535] Mr O’Brien: All of the Department for International Mr O’Brien: The Department for International Development’s (DFID’s) programmes—including private Development (DFID) supported the establishment of sector programmes—are subject to a rigorous assessment the Medicines Patent Pool (MPP) through our contributions process. Information on how we measure progress against to UNITAID. This has the potential to increase access our objectives is available on the DFID website: to more appropriate and affordable anti-retrovirals in http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-us/How-we-measure-progress/ developing countries. The UK continues to encourage The DFID Business Plan and Results Framework (both the pharmaceutical industry to engage actively with the available at the link above) include indicators for our MPP.The UK’s contributions to UNITAID also increases work with the private sector; for example, ″The number access to quality-assured treatments for malaria and of people with access to financial services as a result of tuberculosis in low-income countries by using innovative, DFID support″. global market-based approaches to make treatment For DFID Country Offices and UK-based Departments, products more affordable and widely available. The the measures of effectiveness are available in the relevant UK’s increased support to the United Nations Population Operational Plans: Fund helped Bayer HealthCare Jadelle reduce the price http://www.dfid.gov.uk/What-we-do/Publications/?p-OP of its five year contraceptive implant, and save thousands more women’s lives. The UK works closely with a and at project level through the project database: number of pharmaceutical companies that donate drugs http://projects.dfid.gov.uk/ that combat neglected tropical diseases. For example DFID and GSK jointly support the Liverpool School Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for for Tropical Medicine’s programme to control lymphatic International Development how his Department’s private filaria. sector programme funding will be delivered; and which DFID supports a range of product development bodies and organisations will be involved in delivery. partnerships (PDPs) that work as virtual pharmaceutical [97812] companies to develop new drugs, vaccines and diagnostic tools (technologies) for developing countries. PDPs are Mr O’Brien: The Department for International developed by a range of different partners including Development’s (DFID’s) work with the private sector is large pharmaceutical companies and those in middle implemented through a range of funding mechanisms income countries. There is a strong track record of and implementation, partners. A case-by-case approach PDPs working with, and leveraging funding from, the is taken to programme design to ensure maximum value private sector including pharmaceutical companies to for money and implementing partners include multilateral help further their aims. organisations, civil society organisations, and the private DFID is a founding member of the Harnessing Non- sector. State Actors for Better Health for the Poor (HANSHEP) Further information on implementation of private sector group established in 2010. This seeks to improve the programmes, including on the bodies and organisations performance of the private sector (PS) in delivering that will be involved in delivery, can be found in the better health care for the poor. relevant Operational Plans: Developing Countries: HIV Infection http://www.dfid.gov.uk/What-we-do/Publications/?p=OP and project database: Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State http://projects.dfid.gov.uk/ for International Development when he expects to achieve the target for universal access to treatment for Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for patients with HIV/AIDS. [98852] International Development what objectives his Department Mr O’Brien: The UK is committed to scaling up HIV has set for its private sector programme. [97813] diagnosis, treatment, care and support, and supporting international commitments to get 15 million people on Mr O’Brien: The Department for International treatment by 2015. We set out our plans in an HIV Development’s (DFID’s) work with the private sector is position paper, ‘Towards Zero Infections’, in May 2011. about generating opportunity and prosperity for poor The UK is working with the pharmaceutical industry people in developing countries. This work will deliver to increase the number of people on life saving treatment results for poor people through: better job opportunities to help meet unmet need, driving down costs for medicines, and incomes; more readily available and affordable securing lower prices and better value for money. Work finance for households and small businesses; and more with the Clinton Health Access Initiative to lower the accessible, better quality healthcare, schooling and basic price of the drug tenofovir will generate enough cost-savings services. to buy medicines for an additional 500,000 people by More detail on DFID’s approach to working with 2015. Support to the Global Fund will provide 268,000 the private sector is contained within the paper titled HIV positive people with treatment and 37,000 women ″The Engine of Development: The Private Sector and with treatment to prevent transmission to their babies. Prosperity for Poor People″ 795W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 796W

http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Media-Room/News-Stories/2011/ (ii) in the first half of 2011; and what the difference was Mitchell-Harness-dynamism-and-energy-of-private- between commitments and disbursements in each enterprise-in-international-development/ period. [97602] DFID’s priorities and headline results can be found in the business plan and results framework Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-us/How-we-measure-progress/ Development (DFID) does not compile formal aid Country offices’ and UK-based departments’ objectives expenditure statistics broken down at sub-national level, are available in the relevant operational plans or records commitment’s separately for actual aid spending. UK bilateral aid expenditure to Somalia (including http://www.dfid.gov.uk/What-we-do/Publications/?p=OP Somaliland) for each year 2005-06 to 2010-11, is given and project level objectives are available on the project in the following table: database DFID bilateral aid—Somalia http://projects.dfid.gov.uk/ of which: Humanitarian Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Total (£000) assistance International Development what proportion and how much in real terms of his Department’s budget will be 2005-06 18,740 15,589 allocated to private sector projects in each year of the 2006-07 16,631 7,975 comprehensive spending review period. [97814] 2007-08 25,714 13,675 2008-09 33,471 18,288 Mr O’Brien: The Department for International 2009-10 44,431 31,900 Development (DFID) does not allocate a specific 2010-11 46,060 29,855 proportion of the budget to private sector projects. The Source: DFID annual report and accounts 2010-11 set out the Statistics on International Development, 2011, 2010 plans for the priority pillars for the four years of the http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-us/How-we-measure-progress/Aid- spending review period and private sector department Statistics/ plans for the next two years. I refer the hon. Member to In the year 2011-12, the UK intends to spend up to the reply given to her on 7 September 2011, Official £103 million across Somalia, focused on heath services, Report, column 704W: private sector development, governance and peace-building and humanitarian assistance, subject to results. Up to ‘For planning purposes the Department for International Development (DFID) allocates money by priority pillars. The 60% of this development funding (not including pillars are wealth creation, governance & security, climate change humanitarian aid) from 2011-12 to 2014-15 will be to and global partnerships, as well as DFID funding in support of Somaliland, dependent on results achieved. the Millennium Development Goals (education, health, water & sanitation and humanitarian assistance).’ Sudan: Debts DFID’s new private sector department will play a key role in promoting private sector activities within wealth Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for creation, as well as the other pillars. More detail on International Development whether (a) bilateral and DFID’s approach to working with the private sector is (b) multilateral arrangements have been made with contained within the paper titled ″The Engine of Sudan in respect of debt relief; and what conditions Development: The Private Sector and Prosperity for Sudan will need to meet before it qualifies for debt Poor People″. This can be found on the DFID website: relief. [93190] http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Media-Room/News-Stories/2011/ Mr Andrew Mitchell: The UK has led international Mitchell-Harness-dynamism-and-energy-of-private- enterprise-in-international-development/ efforts to establish a technical working group to oversee the progress on the technical steps required before Sudan For more information on current activities in this can receive debt relief, which last meet in September area and budget allocations please see the DFID annual 2011. Additionally we have made clear on a number of report and accounts 2010-11, which can also be found occasions to the Sudanese Government that debt relief on the DFID website: remains conditional on the need to see genuine progress http://www.dfid.gov.uk/about-us/how-we-measure-progress/ towards inclusive peace and justice in Sudan, and resolving annual-report/ the outstanding issues from the Comprehensive Peace Further information on DFID projects/programmes Agreement. can be accessed from our Project Information Database Syria http://projects.dfid.gov.uk/ individual country pages Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Where-we-work/ International Development what assessment he has and in the DFID departmental operational plans made of the humanitarian situation in Homs; what http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Site-search/?g=operational+plans plans are being made for the distribution of food and aid; and if he will make a statement. [98241] on the DFID website. Mr Andrew Mitchell: We are gravely concerned about Somaliland the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Syria. The UK has provided assistance to humanitarian agencies Alun Michael: To ask the Secretary of State for working in Homs and other areas to support emergency International Development what (a) development medical services and supplies for injured civilians, food assistance and (b) other aid his Department provided rations for over 20,000 people, and other basic services, to Somaliland (i) in each year from 2005 to 2010 and such as emergency water for 2,750 people. In addition, 797W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 798W the UK has increased core funding significantly to Lynne Featherstone: The Equality and Human Rights humanitarian agencies this year such as UN High Commission’s strategic plan for 2012-15 will be published Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) and World Food shortly. Programme (WFP) to cover their ongoing operations all over the world, including in this region. Equalities and Human Rights Commission: Scotland Although humanitarian agencies are able to meet the needs of some of those in need, the actions of Assad Ann McKechin: To ask the Minister for Women and and his regime are making it incredibly difficult to reach Equalities how many frontline staff the Equalities and all civilians. We are continuing to call on the regime to Human Rights Commission (a) employs and (b) will allow unhindered and sustained access into the Baba employ after the new organisational design has been Amr neighbourhood in Homs and other areas for implemented in Scotland. [98420] humanitarian agencies to distribute aid and evacuate the civilians that are most in need. Lynne Featherstone [holding answer 6 March 2012]: We welcome the Syria Humanitarian Forum on Thursday The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) 8 March, jointly chaired by UN Office for the Co-ordination is an arm’s length body; the following is based on of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) and the Arab League, information it has provided. which will bring the international community together The EHRC currently employs eight staff in Scotland to mobilize the humanitarian response. that work directly on its helpline. The EHRC employs a further 27 staff in Scotland; many of these individuals West Africa have direct contact with external organisations and Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for individuals as part of their day-to-day responsibilities. International Development what reports he has The number of staff who will be employed in Scotland received on the humanitarian situation in Niger and after the new organisational design has been implemented Mali caused by drought and conflict; and what steps he will be determined by the EHRC in due course, as a is taking to provide humanitarian assistance to aid result of ongoing work and consultations. agencies. [98248] Mr Andrew Mitchell: In direct response to severe food shortages in the region, in January I announced an EDUCATION urgent package of UK support to help mitigate the crisis. British aid will help treat 83,000 severely malnourished Academies children in Niger, Chad and Mali and provide emergency livelihood support to some 34,000 families to enable Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for them to buy food for the coming months. In addition, Education what his policy is on the formation of military British aid is already reaching those in need across the academies; and if he will make a statement. [97856] Sahel through the release of £10.7 million from the United Nation’s Central Emergency Response Fund—to Mr Gibb: Ministers have read with interest the report which Britain is a major contributor. ‘Military Academies: Tackling disadvantage, improving Over the last couple of weeks the EC Humanitarian ethos and changing outcomes’, published by ResPublica Office (ECHO) has revised its assessment of the food in January this year. I welcome the role the military and crisis in the Sahel. Currently, ECHO estimates that cadet forces can play in engaging young people. The almost 12 million men, women and children across the Department is currently considering the ideas set out in Sahel region of West Africa are at risk of food shortages this paper. in the coming months. Of these, nearly 3 million are estimated to be at severe risk. These figures are expected Academies: Private Finance Initiative to rise as the annual hungry period between harvests has started early this year. Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for An upsurge in fighting between Tuareg rebels and the Education whether the annual charges for private finance Malian Government has resulted in the displacement of initiative contracts on schools which subsequently take 130,000 people; with 65,000 of these fleeing into independent academy status are paid by the school or neighbouring countries. In Niger and Burkina Faso, the by the local education authority; and whether the financial refugees have arrived in some of the areas worst affected allowances of local education authorities will be increased by food insecurity. to limit any effect on other schools. [98373] My officials continue to monitor the situation closely, and liaise with their opposite numbers in other Governments Mr Gibb: Under a private finance initiative (PFI) to ensure other countries take their fair share of the contract the local authority (LA) is normally responsible response. for paying the unitary charge to the PFI contractor throughout the lifetime of the contract. When a school becomes an academy, there should be no change and WOMEN AND EQUALITIES the local authority continues to pay this charge. LAs receive contributions towards the unitary charge Equalities and Human Rights Commission from maintained schools involved in the PFI contract. John McDonnell: To ask the Minister for Women and Schools that become academies continue to make that Equalities when the Equality and Human Rights contribution to the LA. Commission will publish its revised departmental strategic LAs also receive revenue funding from the Department plan to reflect the changes to its services and staff as a contribution to the PFI unitary charge. This funding numbers in the last 12 months. [98545] continues whether or not schools become academies. 799W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 800W

Sometimes, the LA arrangements are such that the higher specification and have significantly fewer pupils contributions from their schools plus the departmental than mainstream secondary schools. revenue funding do not fully meet the unitary charge. There are also 68 academies which are in procurement Any shortfall is met by the LA. Again, arrangements or construction through the BSF framework. These are in place for this to continue when a school becomes projects are significantly less expensive as a result of an academy. cost savings from a reduction in area and reduced The LA receives no extra funding since the arrangements specification. described above are designed to make sure that the funding available to a LA for the unitary charge prior to £ a school in its area becoming an academy is the same as Average cost Minimum Maximum after the school has taken academy status. Type of school per pupil cost per pupil cost per pupil Academies 10,245 2,386 17,463 Boarding Schools

Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Food Technology: Curriculum what the name is of each publicly-funded boarding school or school with boarding houses; in which local Anna Soubry: To ask the Secretary of State for authority each such school is located; how many pupils Education what plans he has to include the teaching of are on the roll at each school; and what proportion of practical cooking skills in schools in his Department’s pupils at each school (a) are eligible for free school curriculum review. [97987] meals, (b) have special educational needs, (c) are from ethnic minorities and (d) have been selected on the Mr Gibb: Schools have an important role to play in basis of (i) academic ability and (ii) aptitude. [96496] ensuring that children and young people learn practical cooking skills and acquire the knowledge that will Mr Gibb: The available information has been placed equip them to prepare healthy meals. Whether we can in the House Libraries. best support schools to play that role by including The table shows which of the boarding schools are practical cooking in the statutory curriculum is a matter classed as wholly selective. Other than this, information that we will give consideration to as the current review on the proportion of pupils that are selected on the of the National Curriculum proceeds. We will be basis of academic ability is not collected. Information announcing our proposals later this year. on selection by aptitude is not collected. Free School Meals Building Schools for the Future Programme Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for what recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of Education what estimate he has made of the cost per State for Work and Pensions on the future of free pupil of each school that has so far been built through school meals. [91665] the Building Schools for the Future programme. [97554] Mr Gibb: I have regular meetings with Ministers in Mr Gibb: Building Schools for the Future (BSF) the Department of Work and Pensions about the future projects were funded on pupil numbers, and the funding of free school meals. for floor space was calculated on the basis of 50% new Ministers and officials from both Departments are build, 35% refurbishment and 15% minor works. This considering the options for new eligibility criteria. The provided an overall funding envelope, and it was decided Department for Education will consult on free school locally how the funds were invested across groups of meal eligibility proposals in 2012, ahead of the introduction schools within a project. Local authorities and schools of universal credit from October 2013. could supplement those resources if they wished to. The following table shows the capital cost per pupil, excluding Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for any local authority contribution, for those completed Education which English local authorities provided schools for which we have complete and validated data. free school meals in (a) primary and (b) secondary schools in the most recent period for which figures are £ available. [97792] Average cost Minimum cost Maximum Type of school per pupil per pupil cost per pupil Mr Gibb: Wherever there is a child that is eligible for Secondary 17,090 2,502 31,350 and claiming free school meals the school has to provide Special 81,932 32,975 1187,325 a meal. There are, therefore, no local authorities in educational needs England which do not provide any free school meals. Pupil referral 38,258 30,479 46,038 Information on the number of pupils eligible for and units claiming free school meals by local authority as at 1 Includes residential accommodation. January 2011 is published in tables 11a and 11b of the The variation in cost per pupil reflects the range of Statistical First Release ’Schools, Pupils and their projects, from major rebuilding to minor refurbishments. Characteristics, January 2011’ available at Special educational need schools and pupil referral http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s001012/ units have a higher cost per pupil as they are built to a index.shtml 801W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 802W

GCSE Literacy: Secondary Education

Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many and what proportion of pupils Education what measures his Department has put in received grades at (a) A, (b) B, (c) C and (d) Dor place to identify and support GCSE students with poor below in GCSE (i) English language, (ii) mathematics reading and comprehension skills; and if he will make a and (iii) combined science from (A) AQA, (B) CCEA, statement. [98048] (C) Edexcel, (D) OCR and (E) WJEC in each year since 2000. [96663] Mr Gibb: Decisions on how to identify and support secondary school pupils with poor reading and comprehension skills are best made at a local level. It is Mr Gibb: The information requested has been placed the responsibility of schools to identify and support in the House Libraries. Information for years prior to those pupils all stages, including at GCSE. 2008 can be provided only at disproportionate cost. Mathematics: GCSE Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what support and resources will be given to Rehman Chishti: To ask the Secretary of State for teachers to help them implement proposed changes to Education how many students taking GCSE mathematics GCSEs in geography, history, English literature and in Gillingham and Rainham constituency achieved a mathematics. [98160] pass rate of A* to C in the most recent period for which figures are available; and how many such students continued Mr Gibb: The Government are committed to restoring to study that subject at A-level. [96723] confidence in GCSEs as rigorous and valued qualifications. I therefore welcome the action being taken by the Mr Gibb: Estimates of the number of pupils in independent regulator, Ofqual, to help ensure that GCSEs Gillingham and Rainham constituency entering and in these subjects are challenging, requiring students to achieving A*-C grades in maths, for the cohort who demonstrate that they have covered the appropriate completed Key Stage 4 in 2007/08, are shown in Table 1 range and depth of subject content. It will be for the as follows. The number and proportion of these who Awarding Organisations to set out for schools and went on to enter maths AS-levels by 2008/09, and maths colleges the changes they will be making to these GCSEs A-levels by 2009/10, are shown in Tables 2 and 3 respectively. as a result. Table 1: Number of pupils1, 2, 3 entering maths GCSE and percentage achieving A*-C grades4, 5 in Gillingham and Rainham constituency6, 2007/08 GCSE: Disadvantaged Number of pupils: Percentage Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for Achieving achieving Education what proportion of pupils entitled to free GCSE subject Taking maths A*-C A*-C grades school meals did not achieve five GCSEs at A* to C in Maths 1,088 572 53 2011 in (a) England and (b) Leeds North West Table 2: Number and percentage of pupils1, 2, 3 achieving maths GCSE constituency. [97001] at A*-C4, 5 who entered maths7 AS-levels by 2008/09 From GCSE A*-C Mr Gibb: The information requested can be found in AS-level maths the following table. Figures for Leeds North West Number of constituency for 2010/11 will not be available until pupils achieving Percentage of around mid March 2012. GCSE subject A*-C Number A*-C Percentage of pupils1,2,3 not achieving 5 A*- C grades at GCSE and Maths 572 44 8 equivalent in Leeds North West constituency4 and England5, years: 2009/10 to 2010/11 Table 3: Number and percentage of pupils1, 2, 3 achieving maths GCSE 2009/10 2010/11 at A*-C4, 5 who entered maths7 A-levels by 2009/10 Percentage Percentage From GCSE A*-C of pupils of pupils A-level maths eligible for eligible for Number of Number FSM not Number FSM not pupils achieving Percentage of of pupils achieving of pupils achieving GCSE subject A*-C Number A*-C eligible for 5+ A*-C eligible for 5+ A*-C FSM grades FSM grades Maths 572 38 7 1 Figures do not include pupils recently arrived from overseas. England 76,949 41.3 78,797 35.2 2 Figures include all maintained schools (including CTCs and academies). Leeds North 118 53.4 3 Pupils at the end of Key Stage 4 in the 2007/08 academic year. West 4 Percentage achieving A*- C based on the number of pupils entering constituency each subject. 1 Figures do not include pupils recently arrived from overseas. 5 Including attempts and achievements by these pupils in previous 2 Figures include all maintained schools {including CTCs and academies). academic years. 3 Pupils at the end of Key Stage 4 in each academic year. 6 Parliamentary constituency figures are based on the postcode of the 4 Parliamentary constituency figures are based on the postcode of the school. school. 7 Includes maths, mechanics, pure, applied, discrete, statistics, further 5 England figures are the sum of all local authority figures. and additional maths. Source: Source: National Pupil Database (2009/10 final data, 2010/11 revised data) National Pupil Database 803W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 804W

Military Academies Personal, Social, Health and Economic Education

Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for Mark Lancaster: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what recent representations he has received Education when he expects the internal review of personal, on the proposed formation of military academies. social, health and economic education to be published. [96920] [97270]

Mr Gibb: I have met my hon. Friend the Member for Mr Gibb: We are currently considering the representations Canterbury (Mr Brazier) and Colonel Hugh Purcell to made to the review of personal social health and economic discuss a range of issues including military academies. education (PSHE), the national and international research evidence, and views obtained from meetings with Ministers have also read with interest the report stakeholders. We expect to publish proposals on PSHE ″Military Academies: Tackling disadvantage, improving later this year, after the next stage of the National ethos and changing outcomes″ published by ResPublica Curriculum review. in January this year. I welcome the role the military and cadet forces can play in engaging young people, and I Private Education have asked officials from the Department to discuss with the Reserves Forces and Cadets Association the Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education ideas set out in this paper. which formerly independent schools have joined the state sector, broken down by (a) local education authority Ofsted: Inspections and (b) school type in each of the last five years. [96490] Elizabeth Truss: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what the cost was of Ofsted inspections of Mr Gibb: The following table sets out the names of (a) childminders, (b) nurseries and (c) schools in the independent schools which have joined the state sector latest year for which figures are available. [97663] in each of the last five years, the local authorities they are sited in and the type of school they have become. Mr Gibb [holding answer 1 March 2012]: This is a Year matter for Ofsted. HM Chief Inspector, Sir Michael (January Wilshaw, has written to my hon. Friend, and a copy of to his response has been placed in the House Libraries. December) Local authority School name School category Letter from Sir Michael Wilshaw: 2007 Barnet Akiva School VA Your recent parliamentary question has been passed to me, as Leicester City Madani High VA Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, for response. School The information you have requested is set out in the table. Bolton Bolton Muslim Girls VA School All costs relate to the most recent full year, 2010-11, and Liverpool Belvedere Secondary Academy include direct and indirect costs plus overheads less income. It School should be noted that overall costs in Ofsted have reduced since 2010-11 and are planned to reduce in total by 30% by the end of Manchester William Hulme’s Academy Grammar School the Comprehensive Spending Review period in 2014-15.

2010-11 direct and 2008 Lambeth Iqra Primary School VA indirect costs plus Bristol City Bristol Cathedral Academy overheads less income Choir School 2010-11 full cost of inspection (£ million) Bristol City Colstans Girls’ Academy Schools (s5 Maintained and 58.8 School Independent) Herefordshire Hereford Waldorf Academy Childminders (Registration and 19.6 School Inspection) Early Years, (Registration and 12.2 2009 Wirral Birkenhead High Academy Inspection, excluding nurseries in School schools and childminders, and non- inspection related visits) 2010 Kent Duke of York’s Academy Please note that for schools, the costs for 2010-11 show no Royal Military impact from the changes to inspection frameworks made in School January 2012 or the planned framework changes anticipated in September 2012. 2011 Barnet Edgware Jewish VA For Early Years the table shows, as requested, the 2010-11 Primary School costs relating to the registration and inspection of child minders Lancashire Preston Muslim VA separately from the cost of other provision. The costs exclude Girls School other ’non-inspection related visits’ such as following up complaints Birmingham Harper Bell Seventh VA and interviewing new managers to ensure they understand the Day Adventist requirements of the EYFS well enough to deem them to be School suitable for their new role. Kirklees Batley Grammar Free School A copy of this reply has been sent to Nick Gibb MP, Minister School of State for Schools, and will be placed in the library of both Luton Moorlands School Free School Houses. 805W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 806W

Schools: Capital Investment Year (January to Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Education December) Local authority School name School category when he plans to announce what resources are being Lancashire Maharishi School Free School allocated to Warrington under his capital programme. [98344] Warwickshire Priors School Free School Cheshire East Sandbach School Free School Mr Gibb [holding answer 6 March 2012]: On 13 December 2011, Official Report, columns 92-5WS, the Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. Friend Schools: Admissions the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), announced capital funding for all local authorities for 2012-13, including allocations for basic need (funding for additional Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education pupil places) and maintenance. Capital funding totalling what proportion of pupils in each local authority in £6 million was allocated to Warrington and its schools. England attending wholly selective secondary schools (a) were eligible for free school meals, (b) had special This funding does not include an additional £600 million educational needs and (c) were from ethnic minority for basic need which was allocated to the Department in families in the latest period for which figures are available; the Chancellor’s autumn statement, 29 November 2011, and what the equivalent figures were for (i) the local Official Report, columns 799-810. We are considering authority in which these schools are located and (ii) how best to allocate this funding and an announcement England. [96493] will be made in due course. All applications for funding through the Priority Mr Gibb: The information requested has been placed School Building Programme are currently being assessed in the House Libraries. and an announcement about those projects approved to proceed will be made as soon as possible. Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Education how many and what proportion of pupils in publicly-funded Schools: Crimes of Violence grammar schools including fully selective academies aged (a) 11 to 18, (b) 11 to 15 and (c) 16 to 18 years David Simpson: To ask the Secretary of State for were eligible for free school meals in the latest period for Education pursuant to the answer of 9 February 2012, which figures are available. [96494] Official Report, columns 439-40W, on teachers: crimes of violence, what steps he has taken since coming to Mr Gibb: The requested information is shown in the office to reduce the number of incidents of physical following table. assaults of teachers. [98103]

1 State-funded selective schools , number of pupils known to be eligible Mr Gibb: The Department deplores any incidents of for and claiming free school meals by age2,3,4: January 2011, England 1 assault against teachers. The Education Act 2011 contained Selective schools measures to ensure that teachers and head teachers have Percentage Number known known to be the powers they need to restore adult authority in to be eligible for eligible for and schools. We have already commenced provisions that Pupils and claiming free claiming free remove the requirement on schools to give parents aged: Number on roll school meals3 school meals5 24 hours notice of detention. 11 to 160,210 3.860 2.4 Provisions in the Act will be commenced shortly that 18 give teachers additional powers to search pupils for any 11 to 112,535 3,010 2.7 items that have been, or could be, used to cause harm or 15 break the law and for any items banned by school rules. 16 to 47,675 850 1.8 In September 2012, provisions in the Act will be commenced 18 replacing independent appeal panels with independent All 160,260 3,860 2.4 review panels so that schools cannot be forced to reinstate pupils6 violent or disruptive pupils who have been permanently 1Includes 164 selective secondary schools, including selective excluded. Further provisions that will grant teachers academies. anonymity when facing allegations from, or on behalf 2 Age as at 31 August 2010. 3 Includes all full-time and part-time pupils who are sole or dual of, a pupil will come into force in October 2012. main registrations. Includes boarders. Teachers who have been subjected to abuse or violence 4The Department’s usual measure of free school meal eligibility should report any such incident to their employer, which includes full time pupils aged 0 to 15 and part time pupils aged five to 15 because far fewer pupils below and over compulsory school in most schools is the governing body or the local age claim for free school meals. authority. Their employer is under a duty of care to 5 Number of pupils known to be eligible for free school meals address and resolve any issues as swiftly and effectively expressed as a percentage of number (headcount) of pupils in each as possible. age group. 6 Middle deemed secondary schools and all through schools deemed as secondary result in some pupils aged under 11 in secondary Schools: Governing Bodies schools. Note: Numbers have been rounded to the nearest five. Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Source: whether he plans to update his Department’s guide to School Census the law for school governors. [97529] 807W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 808W

Mr Gibb [holding answer 5 March 2012]: The Mr Gibb: This is a matter for Ofsted. HM Chief Government are strongly committed to streamlining Inspector, Sir Michael Wilshaw, has written to my hon. the bureaucratic requirements that affect schools and Friend, and a copy of his response has been placed in streamlining guidance and other paperwork. We are the House Libraries. currently considering the best approach to correcting Letter from Sir Michael Wilshaw, dated 5 March 2012: those sections of the Governors’ Guide to the Law that are out of date. Your recent parliamentary question has been passed to me, as Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, for response. Schools: Standards The term ‘special measures’ was established under the Education Act 1993 and has been incorporated into subsequent legislation. A school made subject to special measures is one where her Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State for Majesty’s Chief Inspector is of the opinion that a school is failing Education how many schools have been placed in special to give its pupils an acceptable standard of education and the measures by Ofsted in each year since 1992. [97069] persons responsible for leading, managing or governing the school are not demonstrating capacity to secure the necessary improvement Mr Gibb: This is a matter for Ofsted. HM Chief in the school. Inspector, Sir Michael Wilshaw, has written to my hon. Accordingly, 2,903 schools have been placed in special measures Friend, and a copy of his response has been placed in since the academic year 1993/04, as in the following table. the House Libraries. Letter from Sir Michael Wilshaw: Total number of schools placed Academic year in special measures Your recent parliamentary question has been passed to me, as Her Majesty’s Chief Inspector, for response. 1993/94 24 The term ’special measures’ was established under the Education 1994/95 82 Act 1993 and has been incorporated into subsequent legislation. 1995/96 143 A school made subject to special measures is one where her 1996/97 196 Majesty’s Chief Inspector is of the opinion that a school is failing 1997/98 272 to give its pupils an acceptable standard of education and the persons responsible for leading, managing or governing the school 1998/99 195 are not demonstrating capacity to secure the necessary improvement 1999/00 230 in the school. 2000/01 137 Ofsted records all judgements made by inspectors on inspections, 2001/02 128 including the summative judgement for the overall effectiveness 2002/03 161 of a school. Information provided in this response includes ail 2003/04 213 inspections where a school was made subject to special measures 2004/05 103 between the academic years 1993/94 and 2010/11. 2005/06 167 The number of schools placed in special measures between 1993/94 and 2010/11 can be found in Table A. 2006/07 186 2007/08 151 A copy of this reply has been sent to Nick Gibb MP, Minister of State for Schools, and will be placed in the library of both 2008/09 122 Houses. 2009/10 227 2010/11 166 Table A: Schools placed in special measures in each academic year 1993/94 to 2010/11 Ofsted holds figures on the number of special measures judgements Total number of schools placed in for schools, which were corroborated by Her Majesty’s Inspectors Academic year special measures (HMI), between 2000 and 2009, as in the following table. 1993/94 24 Ofsted does not hold data centrally about the number of 1994/95 82 schools where a special measures judgement was changed prior 1995/96 143 to 2000. 1996/97 196 Schools moderated 1997/98 272 from Special Schools moderated 1998/99 195 Measures to Serious from Special 1999/2000 230 Weaknesses/Notice Measures to 1 2000/01 137 Academic year to Improve Satisfactory 2001/02 128 2000/01 to 2008/9 19 4 2002/03 161 1 The designation for this judgement changed from ‘serious weaknesses’ 2003/04 213 to ‘notice to improve’ during the period in question. 2004/05 103 In 2009, the responsibility for this work transferred to Ofsted’s 2005/06 167 Quality Assurance Division. The following figures show the number 2006/07 186 of special measures judgements that have changed in each academic year since 2009. 2007/08 151 2008/09 122 Schools moderated Schools moderated 2009/10 227 from Special from Special 2010/11 166 Measures to Notice Measures to Academic year to Improve Satisfactory Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State 2009/10 5 0 for Education how many schools have successfully 2010/11 5 1 appealed against being placed in special measures by 2011/12 2 0 Ofsted in each year since 1992. [97070] 809W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 810W

A school given a notice to improve is, like a school placed in Table 2: Number and percentage of pupils1,2,3 achieving science ‘special measures’, judged to be providing an unacceptable standard GCSEs at A*-C4,5 who entered of education, although the leaders and managers in the former science AS levels by 2008/09 have demonstrated their capacity to improve provision. From GCSE A*-C A copy of this reply has been sent to Nick Gibb MP, Minister AS level AS level AS level of State for Schools, and will be placed in the Library of both biology chemistry physics Houses. No. of pupils Schools: Teaching Methods GCSE achieving %of %of %of subject A*-C No. A*-C No. A*-C No. A*-C

Chris Skidmore: To ask the Secretary of State for Biology 165 57 35 223 1 20 12 Education what proportion of children in secondary Chemistry 144 55 38 21 15 20 14 schools were taught in classes with (a) streaming and Physics 147 54 37 21 14 20 14 (b) setting in each year since 1996-97; and if he will Additional 1301089732 make a statement. [97854] science Core 394 11 3 11 3 3 1 Mr Gibb: Ofsted holds data on the number and science proportion of lessons observed during inspections in Source: which setting, streaming or banding by ability is used. National Pupil Database Since the data are based on lessons seen by inspectors, Table 3: Number and percentage of pupils1,2,3 achieving science they may not represent arrangements in the school as a GCSEs at A*-C4,5 who entered science A levels by 2009/10 whole, and may not therefore be an indicator of the use From GCSE A*-C of these forms of grouping at a national level. Alevel Alevel Alevel Ofsted has provided the data on the proportion of biology chemistry physics observed lessons in secondary schools from September Number of 1996 to August 2011 which were taught in set or streamed pupils classes. This includes all subjects except physical education. GCSE achieving %of %of %of The data have been placed in the House Libraries. subject A*-C No. A*-C No. A*-C No. A*-C

The Department has not provided specific guidance Biology 165 57 35 22 13 20 12 to schools on setting. However, case studies showing the Chemistry 144 55 38 21 15 20 14 effective use of setting in schools are available on the Physics 147 54 37 21 14 20 14 Department’s website: Additional 13065547— 7— http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/pupilsupport/ science inclusionandlearnersupport/onetoonetuition/a00199773/ Core 39472627— 7— setting-case-studies science Science: GCSE 1 Figures do not include pupils recently arrived from overseas. 2 Figures include all maintained schools (including CTCs and academies). 3 Pupils at the end of key stage 4 in the 2007/08 academic year. Rehman Chishti: To ask the Secretary of State for 4 Percentage achieving A*- C based on the number of pupils entering Education how many students taking GCSE science each subject. subjects in Gillingham and Rainham constituency achieved 5 Including attempts and achievements by these pupils in previous a pass rate of A* to C; and how many such students academic years. 6 Parliamentary constituency figures are based on the postcode of the continued to study science subjects at A-Level in the school. most recent period for which figures are available. 7 Indicates that a figure of less than three pupils has been suppressed [96722] Source: National Pupil Database Mr Gibb: Estimates of the number of pupils in Gillingham and Rainham constituency entering and Science: Schools achieving A*-C grades in science subjects, for the cohort who completed key stage 4 in 2007/08, are shown in Caroline Dinenage: To ask the Secretary of State for Table 1. The number and proportion of these who went Education what steps he is taking to encourage more on to enter science AS levels by 2008/09, and science schools to become specialist in science, technology, A-levels by 2009/10, are shown in Tables 2 and 3 respectively. engineering and mathematics subjects. [97742] Table 1: Number of pupils1,2,3 entering science GCSEs and percentage achieving A*-C grades4,5 in Gillingham and Rainham constituency6, Mr Gibb: The Government want all schools to excel 2007/08 in teaching STEM subjects and are doing much to Number of pupils: Percentage achieve this. Over the current spending review period achieving we will be investing up to £135 million to improve the taking each achieving A*-C grades quality of science and mathematics teaching. GCSE A*-C Our schools reforms include the development of Teaching Biology 302 165 55 Schools, many of which will lead in STEM subjects and Chemistry 157 144 92 use that expertise to help improve the quality of STEM Physics 157 147 94 education in other schools. We are also developing Additional 228 130 57 University Technical Colleges, all of which will provide science opportunities for 14 to 19-year-olds to experience high Core science 924 394 43 quality technical education, and we taking forward Source: proposals to develop specialist mathematics schools for National Pupil Database 16 to 18-year-olds. 811W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 812W

Secondary Education eligible. The bursaries were introduced in 2000 during a time of teacher shortages which have since alleviated. Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for We have introduced different bursary arrangements Education what the (a) unique reference number and for graduate trainees in 2012/13. The new bursary (b) establishment number is of each maintained secondary arrangements have been designed to attract the highest school in England that has been open since at least quality graduates into teaching particularly in those 2000; how many year 11 students each such school had subject areas where it is still difficult to recruit enough in 2010; how many pupils at such schools entered trainees. They also take account of the higher tuition GCSE English with WJEC in each year between 2000 charge cap. and 2010; and what proportion of pupils at such schools Teachers: Employment attained each grade at GCSE English in each year between 2000 and 2010. [97440] Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what estimate he has made of the number of teachers at Mr Gibb: This information could be supplied only at each teaching grade who are actively seeking employment. disproportionate cost. [97475]

Students: Finance Mr Gibb [holding answer 1 March 2012]: It is estimated that about 24,000 inactive teachers will actively seek Michael Ellis: To ask the Secretary of State for employment in a maintained school or academy in Education for what reasons bursary payments for England during the current academic year. This excludes Postgraduate Certificate in Education students were newly qualified teachers who are looking for work in (a) discontinued in the academic year 2011-12 and (b) the two years following qualification. reintroduced in academic year 2012-13; and whether he The Department does not produce estimates by teaching plans to reimburse students who started their course in grade. academic year 2011-12. [93352] Teachers: Recruitment

Mr Gibb: We continued paying training bursaries in Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education academic year 2011/12 to those training in the priority how many teachers were recruited at each teaching subjects of physics, chemistry, engineering, mathematics, grade in each of the last two years. [97476] biology, combined/general science and modern foreign languages. We stopped making them available in other Mr Gibb [holding answer 1 March 2012]: The following subjects. The training bursaries are an additional incentive table provides the headcount number of qualified teachers to train. All trainees continue to be able to access the taking up a new post in publicly funded schools for the student loans and grants paid through the Student academic years 2008-09 and 2009-10 broken down by Loans Company for which undergraduate students are grade.

Recruitment of qualified teachers to publicly funded schools, by grade. Years: 2008-097 and 2009-107 Coverage: England Headcount 2008-09 2009-10 Full-time Part-time1 Total Full-time Part-time1 Total

Entrants to teaching2 Classroom grades Main pay scale 32,230 6,740 38,960 27,770 6,280 34,050 Upper pay scale 3,000 4,430 7,430 2,730 4,410 7,130 AST and Excellent 50 20 70 50 10 60 teacher Total classroom 35,280 11,190 46,470 30,540 10,700 41,240

Leadership grades3 800 100 900 770 130 890

Unknown4 1,690 160 1,850 2,050 170 2,210

Total 37,770 11,450 49,220 33,350 10,990 44,340

Regrades5 Classroom grades Main pay scale 4,930 1,200 6,130 4,290 1,100 5,380 Upper pay scale 17,930 4,040 21,970 16,790 3,900 20,690 AST and Excellent 850 70 920 770 50 820 teacher Total classroom 23,710 5,310 29,020 21,840 5,050 26,890

Leadership grades3 12,330 520 12,850 10,880 660 11,540 813W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 814W

Recruitment of qualified teachers to publicly funded schools, by grade. Years: 2008-097 and 2009-107 Coverage: England Headcount 2008-09 2009-10 Full-time Part-time1 Total Full-time Part-time1 Total

Unknown4 1,410 330 1,740 320 170 490

Total 37,440 6,170 43,610 33,040 5,880 38,920

Recruitment at the same grade6 Classroom grades Main pay scale 13,830 2,400 16,220 13,850 2,730 16,590 Upper pay scale 6,540 2,680 9,220 8,070 3,360 11,430 AST and Excellent 100 20 120 140 20 160 teacher Total classroom 20,470 5,100 25,570 22,060 6,110 28,170

Leadership grades3 1,870 70 1,940 2,910 140 3,050

Unknown4 10 10 20 30 20 50

Total 22,350 5,180 27,520 25,010 6,270 31,270

All recruitment Classroom grades Main pay scale 50,990 10,340 61,320 45,910 10,110 56,010 Upper pay scale 27,470 11,150 38,620 27,580 11,670 39,250 AST and Excellent 1,000 110 1,110 960 80 1,040 teacher Total classroom 79,460 21,600 101,060 74,440 21,860 96,300

Leadership grades3 14,990 700 15,690 14,550 930 15,480

Unknown4 3,100 500 3,610 2,400 360 2,750

Total 97,560 22,790 120,350 91,390 23,140 114,530 1 Part-time figures are underestimated by around 15%. This is due to the underreporting of teachers who have not opted to be members of the Teachers’ Pensions Scheme,. 2 Teachers recorded as ’not in service’ as a qualified teacher in the English publicly funded sector at the commencement of the year including new and re-entrants to teaching and those moving from other education sectors. 3 Information is only available for the leadership group as a whole due to an issue with the recording of individual grades within this group. 4 Includes teachers whose grade is not recorded or qualified teachers recorded on the unqualified pay scale. 5 Teachers who changed grade and were in service in the sector at both the beginning and the end of the year. These include both promotions and moves to posts of lesser responsibility. Figures include movements between grades between and within schools. 6 Teachers who have taken up a new post in a different school at the same grade. Figures are not available for teachers who have taken up a new post in the same school at the same grade, (eg those that have taken on a role with additional responsibility). 7 Provisional. Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2. Totals may not add to component parts because of rounding. Source: Database of Teacher Records

Teachers: Redundancy Workforce Statistical First Release, November 2010, (Provisional)’ at the following web link: Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education http://www.education.gov.uk/researchandstatistics/statistics/ how many teachers at each teaching grade have been allstatistics/a00196713/school-workforce-sfr made redundant in the last two years. [97477] Teachers: Training Mr Gibb [holding answer 1 March 2012]: The information requested is not collected centrally. Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Education Information on the number of teachers who retired whether he will consider including a module on organising prematurely in 2010/11 is available in table H4 of the a school visit in teacher training courses; and if he will additional tables that were published in the ’School make a statement. [98155] 815W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 816W

Mr Gibb: The Government recognise the important Mr Simon Burns: Unused stock of Pandemrix held contribution that school visits can make to engaging centrally was disposed of by incineration. The cost of and supporting pupils in their education. All staff who incineration was estimated at £45,000. Local national take pupils on school visits should be properly trained health service bodies will have been responsible for the and prepared to do so. It is the responsibility of head disposal of stock held locally and details of local disposal teachers to ensure that their staff have the necessary costs are not held centrally. The value of the unused knowledge and skills before taking pupils on out of stock remains confidential as, given other information class activities. This preparation may include some form in the public domain, it could be used to calculate a unit of additional training, if they consider this to be necessary price for the vaccine, which is still considered commercial and appropriate. in confidence. The new Teachers’ Standards, which set out what is expected of all qualified teachers, require teachers to be National Health Service Commissioning Boards able to plan out of class activities to consolidate and extend the knowledge and understanding pupils have Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for acquired. It is for training providers to decide what Health what the principal functions of the proposed trainees should be taught to enable them to achieve the National Health Service Commissioning Boards are; Teachers’ Standards. The Department does not mandate and what its principal powers and responsibilities are. content of initial teacher training courses. [98227] University Technical Colleges Mr Simon Burns: The proposed powers, functions Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Education and responsibilities of the NHS Commissioning Board what criteria were adopted and applied by his Department are set out in the Health and Social Care Bill, and are to determine which universities should be invited to therefore subject to parliamentary approval. The main establish a university teaching school; and when the functions envisaged for the Board are: application process was made public. [98303] to provide national leadership on commissioning for quality improvement and reducing inequalities in access to, and the Mr Gibb: In the White Paper: ’The Importance of outcomes of, health care; Teaching’, we said that we would invite higher education to promote and extend public and patient involvement and providers of initial teacher training to open university choice; training schools. Officials from the Department and the to establish and support the development of clinical commissioning Training and Development Agency have been responding groups and hold them to account for outcomes and financial to universities who have expressed an interest. The performance; Department has not published formal criteria as yet so to commission certain services directly, including primary care has not invited any universities to attend meetings. Our and specialised services; and working assumption has been that universities will run to allocate and account for the resources used to commission a school, provide outstanding initial teacher training national health service services. and continuing professional development and undertake The NHS Commissioning Board Authority has been research. We aim to make an announcement shortly. established as a special health authority to prepare Independent of this announcement, the Institute of for the establishment of the board later this year. Education, in partnership with a group of parents, The authority’s proposals for developing the NHS submitted an application last year. As the Free School Commissioning Board and more recently on the design bid had many of the features of a prospective university of the NHS Commissioning Board are available on its training school all of the parties involved agreed to website at: develop the proposal as a pathfinder UTS and this is www.commissioningboard.nhs.uk now progressing through the Department’s Free School application process. The university of Birmingham has Asthma also registered an interest in setting up a university training school as part of their proposals submitted this Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health year. how many people diagnosed with chronic asthma wait Universities, which would like to discuss their plans more than 48 hours to see a doctor. [97017] to set up a university training school, should contact Michele Marr at the Training and Development Agency Paul Burstow: The latest results from the GP Patient (TDA) at: Survey show that, of everyone surveyed who said that [email protected] they had asthma or a long-term chest problem, 51% of people saw their doctor either on the same day or the next working day (compared to the rest of the population where the percentage was 49%). HEALTH Influenza: Vaccination Cancer: Drugs

Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for pursuant to the answer of 28 February 2012, Official Health (1) what information his Department holds on Report, column 251W, on influenza: vaccination, how the number of cancer patients in the UK treated with the stock of unused vaccine was disposed of; what the fluorouracil; and how many such patients have had cost was of disposing of the stock; and what the value subsequent health problems due to that treatment; was of the unused stock. [98038] [98253] 817W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 818W

(2) how many cancer patients died as a result of for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) has not fluorouracil being administered during treatment in the recommended for cancer treatment since NICE was latest period for which figures are available. [98254] established; [98335] (6) if he will publish the final calculated cost per Mr Simon Burns: The Medicines and Healthcare quality adjusted life year of each pharmacological treatment products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) does not hold and associated indications which the National Institute data on the number of cancer patients in the United for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) has Kingdom treated with fluorouracil. recommended for cancer treatments; and which such The Yellow Card Scheme provides for voluntary reporting treatment and indications have been recommended for of suspected adverse drug reactions (ADRs) by health cancer treatment under the end of life criteria since care professionals and members of the public. The NICE was established; [98336] scheme is run by the MHRA and Commission for (6) if he will publish the determined population size Human Medicines and collects ADR reports from across for each pharmacological treatment and associated the whole UK for all medicines. There is also a legal indications which the National Institute for Health and obligation for pharmaceutical companies to report all Clinical Excellence (NICE) has recommended for serious ADRs for their products that they are aware of. cancer treatment under the end of life criteria since As the scheme is voluntary, it is recognised that not NICE was established; [98337] all ADRs are reported. Data collected through, the (7) if he will publish the determined population size Yellow Card Scheme do not represent all patients who for each pharmacological treatment and associated have suffered an adverse reaction to a medicine. Therefore indications which the National Institute for Health and it is not possible to provide the number of patients who Clinical Excellence has recommended for cancer have had subsequent health problems due to treatment treatment since it was established. [98338] with fluorouracil. Up to 1 March 2012, the MHRA has received a total Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not of 460 UK spontaneous ‘suspected’ADR reports associated held by the Department. I have asked the chief executive with fluorouracil. 35 of these reports had a fatal outcome. of the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence 316 of these reports were associated with intravenous to write to the hon. Member with this information. A administration, 34 with topical administration and 110 copy will be placed in the Library. with the route of administration as other or not stated. It is important to note that the reporting of a suspected adverse reaction does not necessarily mean it is related Cardiovascular system: Health Services to the drug. We ask reporters to send us ‘suspicions’ of adverse drug reactions: however, these are not proven. Many factors have to be taken into account in assessing Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for causal relationships including temporal association, the Health (1) what steps will be taken to ensure continuity possible contribution of concomitant medication and of care for patients diagnosed with acute myocardial the underlying disease being treated. infarction; and if he will make a statement; [98350] (2) what plans he has to improve the information, Cancer: Health Services support and advice given to patients diagnosed with acute myocardial infarction about their medication to improve compliance with their treatment regime; Mr Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what (a) pharmacological treatments and (b) associated [98351] indications which the National Institute for Health and (3) when the outcomes strategy for cardiovascular Clinical Excellence (NICE) has recommended for cancer disease will be published. [98354] treatment through either single of multiple technology appraisals since NICE was established; [98233] Mr Simon Burns: The National Institute for Health (2) what (a) pharmacological treatments and (b) and Clinical Excellence (NICE) is currently developing associated indications the National Institute for Health guidance on the acute management of myocardial and Clinical Excellence has recommended for cancer infarction. treatment under the end of life criteria since the criteria NICE is also updating its 2007 guidance on secondary was introduced in 2009; [98234] prevention in primary and secondary care for patients (3) what (a) pharmacological treatments and (b) following a myocardial infarction. The guidance associated indications the National Institute for Health recommends that after a myocardial infarction patients and Clinical Excellence has not recommended for should have the opportunity to make informed decisions cancer treatment since it was established; [98235] about, their care and treatment, in partnership with (4) what (a) pharmacological treatments and (b) their health care professionals. associated indications the National Institute for Health NHS Improvement has produced a resource for the and Clinical Excellence has recommended for (a) prostate national health service on primary angioplasty and cancer, (b) lung cancer, (c) bowel cancer, (d) breast health information provision. cancer and (e) kidney cancer through (i) single or multiple The topic of acute coronary syndromes (including technology appraisals and (ii) under the end of life myocardial infarction) has been referred to NICE for criteria since it was established; [98237] Quality Standard development. Quality Standards provide (5) if he will publish the final calculated cost per a valuable source of advice and guidance for commissioners quality adjusted life year of each pharmacological treatment and providers as they describe what high quality, clinically and associated indications which the National Institute and cost-effective care should look like. 819W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 820W

The development of the cardiovascular disease outcomes Health: Finance strategy is in its early stages and no date has yet been set for its publication. Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what recent representations he has received on the Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for proposed allocation of public health funding to the Health what plans he has to introduce a national London borough of Bexley council. [98114] cardiovascular patient experience survey. [98352] Mr Simon Burns: Alongside the recent correspondence Mr Simon Burns: The Department currently has no from my hon. Friend dated 16 February, the Department plans to introduce a national cardiovascular patient has also received correspondence from the Leader of experience survey. However, it is intended that patient Bexley council, Teresa O’Neill, about the implications groups will be invited to contribute to the development of the recently published estimates of baseline public of the cardiovascular disease outcomes strategy. health spend in 2010-11 uplifted to 2012-13 values. We have encouraged the council to continue to work Departmental Manpower together with their local primary care trust, and to inform the Department if they feel adjustments are Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for needed to correct their estimated baseline spend. Health how many staff are working on implementing the national health service transition programme; and how many such staff are (a) directly and (b) indirectly HIV Infection: Greater London employed. [98245] Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Mr Simon Burns: The NHS transition programme to how many people in (a) the London borough of implement the structural and system changes in the Bexley and (b) London were diagnosed with HIV in Health and Social Care Bill encompasses all the primary each of the last five years. [97984] care trusts, strategic health authorities, the Department of Health, and several of the Department’s arm’s length Mr Simon Burns: The number of people who were bodies. Each of these organisations are employing staff diagnosed with HIV in the London borough of Bexley, on transition work. However, information is not held and in London as a whole, over the last five years is centrally on the number of both direct and indirect staff provided in the following table. employed and could be obtained only at disproportionate New HIV diagnoses made in the London borough of Bexley and cost. London: 2006-10 Bexley London Departmental Senior Civil Servants 2006 * 3,097 2007 6 3,029 Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008 6 3,043 Health what plans he has to unwind the use of personal 2009 0 2,842 service companies by senior civil servants in his Department 2010 0 2,891 and its agencies; for what reason he is taking any such Notes: steps; and at what cost. [98226] 1. Numbers between one and four have been anonymised with an ‘*’. 2. There are no genitourinary medicine clinics (the main providers of HIV testing) in the borough of Bexley, therefore it is most likely that Mr Simon Burns: No senior civil servants in the residents travel to neighbouring boroughs in London to access HIV Department or its agency, the Medicines and Healthcare testing services. Consequently the number provided is not reflective of products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), are paid their the number of people diagnosed with a HIV infection who live in the salaries or other payments through the use of personal borough. service companies. The Department Sources specific skills and experience Lyme Disease through commercial means where this is required to meet business needs. This requires payments to private companies for, for example, temporary staff or contractors, Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for and to consultancies. Some of the payments are for the Health what guidance is provided to GPs on the services of staff filling senior civil service equivalent diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease. [98294] roles. Mr Simon Burns: Guidance for clinicians on the The Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the right hon. diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease is published Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey on the Health Protection Agency’s website along with (Danny Alexander), has announced an urgent review of advice for the public on how to avoid infection and the tax arrangements of senior public sector appointments, what to do if bitten by a tick at: to report by the end of March 2012. As part of this, the Department is currently carrying out a major data www.hpa.org.uk/Topics/InfectiousDiseases/InfectionsAZ/ gathering exercise which includes the MHRA, non- LymeDisease/ departmental public bodies and the national health The chief medical officer issues regular updates to service in order to determine the contracting arrangements clinicians about Lyme disease to remind them of the of senior appointees. This exercise is expected to be signs, symptoms and treatment of Lyme disease and the completed by mid-March. appropriate diagnostic tools at their disposal. 821W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 822W

Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for CE-marked test kits to detect the presence of antibodies Health what steps his Department is taking to raise to Borrelia burgdorferi, the causative agent of Lyme awareness of the prevention and causes of Lyme disease, is available for use in the European Union. In disease. [98295] the United Kingdom, reference laboratories perform additional in-house validation exercises prior to their Mr Simon Burns: The chief medical officer issues introduction into routine diagnostic use to ensure that regular updates to clinicians about Lyme disease to their performance parameters (sensitivity and specificity) remind them of the signs/symptoms and treatment of have also been tested thoroughly under local conditions. Lyme disease and the appropriate diagnostic tools at The Health Protection Agency’s Lyme reference laboratory their disposal. Guidance for clinicians on the diagnosis uses commercially produced and CE-marked Trinity and treatment of Lyme disease is published on the Biotech EU Lyme IgM and EU Lyme+VlsE IgG western Health Protection Agency’s (HPA) website along with blots as supplementary (second stage) tests in the advice for the public on how to avoid infection and investigation of suspected Lyme borreliosis. what to do if bitten by a tick at: This two stage testing for Lyme disease conforms to www.hpa.org.uk/Topics/InfectiousDiseases/InfectionsAZ/ internationally agreed criteria for testing for Lyme disease. LymeDisease/ The HPA issues an annual press release in the spring Maternity Services to raise public awareness of ticks, tick bites and Lyme disease and how to avoid infection. The HPA has also Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for produced a leaflet in conjunction with the Royal Parks Health when the clinical outcome review programme and the New Forest district council on ticks and Lyme for maternal and newborn health will be resumed. disease which gives advice on how to avoid infection. [98476]

Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for Paul Burstow: The re-tendering of the Maternal and Health how many people were diagnosed with Lyme Newborn Clinical Outcome Review Programme is in its disease in (a) 2009, (b) 2010 and (c) 2011. [98296] final stage. A new supplier will be in place from 1 April 2012 to manage this programme. Mr Simon Burns: Borrelia spp, the causative agent of The Health Quality Improvement Partnership (HQIP), Lyme disease, is a notifiable causative agent in the who manage the Clinical Outcomes Review Programme, Health Protection (Notification) Regulations 2010, and has interim management of the secure web-based portal all laboratory isolations of Borrelia spp in a human that supports the collection of maternal and perinatal sample must now be notified to the Health Protection mortality data. This continues to operate as usual under Agency (HPA) in England. The HPA has confirmed the management of HQIP,and the notification of maternal that the number of laboratory confirmed reports of and newborns deaths continues as before. Lyme borreliosis were 973 in 2009 and 905 in 2010. The figures for 2011 have not yet been confirmed and will be Medical Treatments abroad published on the HPA’s website when available. The number of people diagnosed on the basis of clinical Chris Skidmore: To ask the Secretary of State for symptoms alone and without laboratory confirmation Health how many UK citizens received treatment abroad is not available. as part of EEA agreements in each year for which figures are available; and in what country such treatment Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for took place. [98480] Health how many NHS consultants were involved in the treatment of extreme cases of Lyme disease in the Mr Simon Burns: Due to the nature of the claims latest period for which figures are available. [98298] process between member states, the Department is unable to disaggregate this information for the number of Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not individuals using the European Health Insurance Card collected centrally. or for United Kingdom state pensioners that have retired abroad. Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for The following table shows the number of elective Health what research his Department is undertaking treatment, requests, granted under European Union on the treatment of Lyme disease. [98299] regulations, for UK citizens to receive treatment in another European economic area country: Mr Simon Burns: The Department has no research projects in place concerning the treatment of Lyme Number of E112/S2s issued disease. by UK Lyme Disease: Blood Tests 2008 1,477 2009 1,609 Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010 1,442 Health what blood tests are available for the testing of 2011 1,519 Lyme disease and associated tick borne diseases. [98293] NHS: Procurement

Mr Simon Burns: National health service laboratories Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if offering tests to assist in the diagnosis of Lyme disease he will take steps to ensure that primary care trusts and use CE-marked test kits. A wide range of validated and clinical commissioning groups that commission NHS 823W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 824W

Continuing Healthcare adhere to a single set of national www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/ eligibility criteria to ensure consistent application of PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_130239 standards and prevent geographical inequalities in eligibility. As referred to in the report, this work will continue in [98531] 2012. Important initiatives include the national survey of bereaved relatives, the roll-out of electronic palliative Paul Burstow: Health care is a devolved matter. Decisions care co-ordination systems, the work on palliative care about national health service continuing health care funding, support for the national Dying Matter coalition (CHC) are a matter for the Welsh Assembly Government. and implementation of the End of Life Care for Adults In England, the Department is working closely with Quality Standard developed by the National Institute strategic health authorities, and the NHS Commissioning for Health and Clinical Excellence. Board special health authority, to ensure a smooth transition for NHS-funded CHC, and to take opportunities Patient Access Scheme to improve consistent application of the National Framework to ensure consistent national standards of Mr Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for Health eligibility. what (a) pharmacological treatments and (b) associated indications for a patient access scheme have NHS: Reform been recommended by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence since it was established. Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for [98236] Health what steps he is taking to minimise disruption for staff during the period of transition in the national Mr Simon Burns: The treatments recommended by health service. [98484] the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence where a patient access scheme was considered as part of Mr Simon Burns: The Department has put a number the relevant technology appraisal are listed in the following of measures in place to minimise the disruption to table. Further information is available on the Institute’s staff during the current transition period, including website at: Human Resources Transition Frameworks covering the www.nice.org.uk/aboutnice/howwework/paslu/ organisations to be affected. People Transition Policies patientaccessschemesliaisonunit.jsp for the new bodies have also been developed in partnership with trade unions and representatives from the national Technology health service, arm’s length bodies and the Department appraisal to guide staff affected by the transition through these (TA) current reforms. number Treatment Indication TA129 Bortezomib (Velcade) Multiple myeloma NHS: Reorganisation TA155 Ranibizumab Macular degeneration (Lucentis) (Acute wet AMD) Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for TA162 Erlotinib (Tarceva) Non small cell lung cancer Health what the principal efficiency savings derived TA169 Sunitinib (Sutent) Renal cell carcinoma from his transition programme in the NHS will be. TA171 Lenalidomide Multiple myeloma [98228] (Revlimid) TA176 Cetuximab (Erbitux) Metastatic colorectal cancer Mr Simon Burns: The principal efficiency savings (first line) derived from the programme of modernisation in the TA179 Sunitinib (Sutent) Gastrointestinal stromal national health service relate to the reduction in tumour administration costs by reducing and delayering TA180 Ustekinumab (Stelera) Moderate to severe psoriasis bureaucracy. This will result in total savings of £4.5 billion TA185 Trabectedin (Yondelis) Advanced soft tissue by 2014-15 and annual savings of £1.5 billion thereafter. sarcoma These savings will contribute towards overall annual TA186 Certolizumab pegol Rheumatoid arthritis (Cimzia) efficiency improvements in the NHS of up to £20 billion by 2014-15. The efficiency savings and other benefits of TA192 Gefitinib (Iressa) Non small cell lung cancer TA215 Pazopanib (Votrient) Advanced renal cell the proposed reforms are described in more detail in the carcinoma published impact assessments of the Health and Social TA218 Azacitidine (Vidaza) Myelodysplastic syndromes, Care Bill. chronic myelomonocytic leukaemia and acute Palliative Care myeloid leukaemia TA220 Golimumab (Simponi) Psoriatic arthritis Daniel Kawczynski: To ask the Secretary of State for TA221 Romiplostim (Nplate) Chronic idiopathic Health what steps he has taken to improve palliative (immune) care for patients in the last year; and what further steps thrombocytopenic purpura he plans to take in 2012. [98297] TA225 Golimumab (Simponi) Rheumatoid arthritis TA233 Golimumab (Simponi) Ankylosing spondylitis Paul Burstow: Progress in implementing the end of TA235 Mifamurtide (Mepact) High grade resectable non- life care strategy and in related activities over the last metastic osteosarcoma year is detailed in the End of Life Care Strategy Third TA238 Tocilizumab Systemic juvenile idiopathic Annual Report, which was published in September (RoActemra) arthritis TA241 Nicotinic (Taiga) Imagine-resistant chronic 2011, The report has already been placed in the Library myeloid leukaemia and is available on the Department’s website at: 825W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 826W

Physiotherapy: Administrative Delays (2) how many pharmacists have sold prescription drugs abroad through wholesale subsidiary companies. Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Health [98127] what assessment he has made of (a) the provision of and (b) waiting times for NHS physiotherapy services Mr Simon Burns: The Medicines and Healthcare in (i) Crawley and (ii) West Sussex. [98054] products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), an executive agency of the Department, regulates manufacturers Mr Simon Burns: No assessment has been made centrally. and wholesale dealers of medicinal products for human It is the responsibility of local national health service use in the United Kingdom on behalf of the UK organisations to commission services to meet the needs Licensing Authority. of their communities, including the provision of physiotherapy services. Currently there are no mandated Records held on the MHRA’s main data repository data held centrally regarding physiotherapy waiting for information on wholesale dealers’licences have identified times unless part of a consultant-led episode within that 1,711 licensed wholesale dealers are authorised to 18-week pathways. wholesale deal in Prescription only Medicines for human use. The Allied Health Professions (AHP) Referral to Treatment (RTT) Revised Guide, published in December The Licensing Authority regulates in the interest of 2011, sets out a framework of rules for clock starts and public health. It is not a competition regulator and does clock stops to measure waiting times for patients when not set a limit on the number of UK licensed wholesale accessing NHS AHP services including physiotherapy. dealers. However licensed wholesale dealers must meet This was followed by a letter to the service from the statutory safety standards. Chief Health Professions Officer on 16 January 2012. Only a licensed wholesale dealer may wholesale distribute All AHPs delivering NHS funded care are encouraged medicines to other European Economic Area member to base their local data collections, local flows and states. The Licensing Authority does not hold any data reporting of AHP RTT data on the Community on such wholesale distribution transactions. Information Data Set structure in anticipation of a national mandate for collection and reporting of data. Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Work is ongoing to provide the mechanisms for information which prescription drugs UK pharmacists and hospitals flows to report AHP RTT centrally. are experiencing shortages of; and which drugs were in The ‘AlliedHealth Professional Referral to Treatment short supply in 2011. [98123] Revised Guide 2011’ can be found at: www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/ Mr Simon Burns: This information is not available documents/digitalasset/dh_131969.pdf centrally. The Pharmaceutical Services Negotiating and a copy has been placed in the Library. Committee collates reports from pharmacy contractors on medicines that they have had difficulty sourcing and Prescription Drugs: Shortages publishes the Branded (medicines) Shortages List on their website. Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what proportion of prescription drugs manufactured Spinal Injuries: Health Services in the UK were sold abroad since (a) January 2011 and (b) January 2012; [98128] Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (2) which drugs the NHS and pharmacists are whether he plans to form a single spinal injuries experiencing shortages of in each primary care trust. commissioning body. [98533] [98130] Mr Simon Burns: This information is not available Paul Burstow: There are no plans to form a single centrally. commissioning body for spinal injuries. Certain elements of services for people with spinal Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health injuries are currently designated as “specialised”. Under (1) what meetings he has had with pharmaceutical the provisions of the Health and Social Care Bill, the manufacturing companies and wholesalers on prescription NHS Commissioning Board will in future commission drug shortages since February 2011; [98122] such services. By commissioning these services once (2) what meetings he has had to discuss shortages of through the NHS Commissioning Board, we will be prescription drugs since February 2011. [98124] able to avoid duplication in planning and ensure that the highest level of care is commissioned for patients Mr Simon Burns: The Department has regular meetings regardless of their geographical location. with supply chain representatives to discuss and mitigate the impact of supply difficulties associated with parallel Other services are currently commissioned and provided exports. The Department also works closely with locally. These services will, subject to the passage of the pharmaceutical companies, wholesalers, pharmacists and Health and Social Care Bill, be commissioned by clinical the national health service to ensure patients can continue commissioning groups. Clinical commissioning groups to obtain their medicines quickly and conveniently. will have the freedom to decide which aspects of commissioning activity they undertake fully themselves Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and which aspects require collaboration across several (1) how many wholesalers operate in the UK selling groups, for example through a lead commissioner managing prescription drugs from manufacturers to pharmacists; the contract with a large hospital or commissioning low whether this number is limited; and who is responsible volume services not covered by national and regional for setting any such limit; [98126] specialised services. 827W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 828W

Transplant Surgery: Waiting Lists Number on the active1 transplant list as at 31 March 2008 to 2011 and on the current list as at 1 March 2012, by organ and financial year, for Dartford constituency Gareth Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for March each year Health (1) how many people in (a) Kent and (b) Organ 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Dartford constituency have been (i) waiting on the organ transplant list and (ii) received organ transplants Lung 0 0 1 .0 0 in each of the last five years; [98256] Liver04133 (2) how many people in (a) Kent and (b) Dartford Total21012117 1 ‘Active’ means the patient is currently in a state to receive a transplant. constituency died whilst waiting on the organ Source: transplant list in each of the last five years. [98258] NHS Blood and Transplant Number of organ transplants, 1 April 2007 to 29 February 2012, by Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is provided organ and financial year, for Dartford constituency in the following tables. 2011- 1 Number on the active1 transplant list as at 31 March 2008 to 2011 and Organ 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 12 on the current list as at 1 March 2012, by organ and financial year, for Kidney 01112 Kent (deceased) March each year Kidney 14211 Organ 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 (live) Kidney 101 114 127 124 118 Kidney/ 00010 pancreas Kidney/ 37558 pancreas Lung(s) 0 0010 Pancreas10211Liver 31403 (deceased) Heart 36453 Total. 4 6746 Lung(s) 96843 1 1 April 2011 to 29 February 2012 Heart/lung 10000Source: Liver 5 7 6 10 12 NHS Blood and Transplant Other multi 01010 Deaths on the organ transplant list—by financial year, for Kent organ 2011- Total 123 141 152 150 145 Organ 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 121 1 ‘Active’ means the patient is currently in a state to receive a transplant. Kidney66413 Source: Kidney/ 10001 NHS Blood and Transplant pancreas Number of organ transplants, 1 April 2007 to 29 February 2012, by Pancreas00100 organ and financial year, for Kent Heart. 0 0001 2011- Lung(s) 2 1010 Organ 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 121 Liver64511 Kidney 23 24 25 31 20 Other multi 00100 (deceased) organ Kidney 31 44 46 35 30 Total 15 11 11 3 6 (live) 1 1 April 2011 to 29 February 2012 Kidney/ 4 4834Source: pancreas NHS Blood and Transplant Pancreas1 2000Deaths on the organ transplant list—by financial year for Dartford Pancreas 0 0200 constituency islets 2011- Heart 1 2632Organ 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 121 Lung(s) 3 3574 Kidney 0 1 1 0 1 Liver 18 15 22 13 16 (deceased) Liver 0 0 0 1 0 Liver(live)0 1000Total 0 1 1 1 1 1 Other 0 03001 April 2011 to 29 February 2012 multi Source: organ NHS Blood and Transplant Total 81 95 117 92 76 1 1 April 2011 to 29 February 2012 Source: NHS Blood and Transplant HOME DEPARTMENT Number on the active1 transplant list as at 31 March 2008 to 2011 and on the current list as at 1 March 2012, by organ and financial year, for Dartford constituency Alcoholic Drinks: Redditch March each year Organ 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for the Kidney26984Home Department if she will estimate the costs to the Kidney/ 00100police of alcohol abuse in Redditch constituency in the pancreas latest period for which figures are available. [98409] 829W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 830W

James Brokenshire: The Home Office estimates the Crime annual cost to society of alcohol related crime in England and Wales at £8 billion to £13 billion. This estimate was Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for published in the impact assessment accompanying the the Home Department what estimate she has made of Government’s proposal for a mandatory code of practice the number of (a) individuals and (b) gangs engaged for alcohol retailers which can be found at: in cross-border criminal activities broken down by the http://www.ialibrary.bis.gov.uk/uploaded/ nature of the criminal activity in each of the last IA%20Alcohol%20Mandatory%20Code.pdf 10 years. [98445] Breakdowns below the national level or relating [holding answer 6 March 2012]: specifically to the police are not available. James Brokenshire The police recorded crime data collected centrally by Alcoholic Drinks: Southampton Home Office Statistics have details of the nature of the crimes which are reported to and recorded by the police. However, it is not possible to state from these data the Caroline Nokes: To ask the Secretary of State for the number of individuals or gangs involved in the commission Home Department what assessment she has made of of offences or whether these involved cross-border activities. the cost to the police of alcohol abuse in the city of Southampton in the latest period for which figures are Detention Centres available. [97874] Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for the James Brokenshire: The Home Office estimates the Home Department how many people in immigration annual cost to society of alcohol related crime in England detention were primary carers for children before they and Wales at £8 billion to £13 billion. This estimate was were placed in detention. [98086] published in the impact assessment accompanying the Government’s proposal for a mandatory code of practice Damian Green [holding answer 5 March 2012]: The for alcohol retailers which can be found at: UK Border Agency does not hold statistical information http://www.ialibrary.bis.gov.uk/uploaded/ centrally on this subject, and the resource required to IA%20Alcohol%20Mandatory%20Code.pdf interrogate individual records manually would be of Breakdowns below the national level or relating disproportionate cost to the Department. specifically to the police are not available. Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for the Asylum Home Department how many single parents with dependent children are being held in immigration detention facilities in the UK. [98087] Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proportion of expenditure Damian Green [holding answer 5 March 2012]: The contained in her Department’s Spring Supplementary Home Office publishes quarterly and annual statistics Estimate 2011-12 relates to asylum support; for what on the number of people in detention, held solely under reason that expenditure is lower than originally Immigration Act powers. Q4 2011 detention figures forecast; and what proportion that expenditure is of were published on 23 February 2012 and are available reduced spending at the UK Border Agency. [98652] from the Library of the House and from the Home Office Science, research and statistics web pages at: Damian Green: The asylum support budget for 2011-12 http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/science-research/research- was £391 million, which is 4% of Home Office Resource statistics/migration/migration-statistics1/ DEL (departmental expenditure limit). The supplementary estimate memorandum confirms Detention Centres: Children that this budget was reduced during the course of the year, reflecting a lower than anticipated population of Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for the supported asylum seekers. The lower population reflects Home Department how many children are being held both a lower than anticipated intake of new asylum in UK Border Agency immigration detention facilities seekers and a higher level of cessations. with their parents. [98085] The UK Border Agency annual report will set out Damian Green [holding answer 5 March 2012]: The actual spend in 2011-12 in due course. Home Office publishes quarterly and annual statistics on the number of people in detention, held solely under Civil Disorder Immigration Act powers. Q4 2011 detention figures were published on 23 February 2012 and are available Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for the from the Library of the House and from the Home Home Department how many claims under the Riots Office Science, research and statistics web pages at: (Damages) Act 1886 in relation to public disorder in http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/science-research/research- London in August 2011 have been (a) made, (b) statistics/migration/migration-statistics1/ accepted as valid and (c) paid. [97877] Drugs: Crime Nick Herbert: Claims under the Riot (Damages) Act are made directly to police authorities. Police Authorities Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for the assess claims made to them and then pay such compensation Home Department how many people were charged as they see fit. The Home Office will reimburse all with possession of drugs in (a) Bexleyheath and payments made by police authorities under the Riot Crayford constituency and (b) London in each of the (Damages) Act. last five years. [94412] 831W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 832W

James Brokenshire: Charging data are not collated (11)EVMikhailov, (12)RAGritsai, (13)IAVarganov, centrally and therefore proceedings data taken from the (14) N I Dmitrieva, (15) Artem Kuznetsov, (16) Aleksey Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings Database have Droganov, (17) Dmitri Tolchinskiy, (18)AAKrechetov, been provided in lieu. (19) Aleksandr Klevtsoc, (20) Anatoly Mikhalkin, (21) The number of persons proceeded against at magistrates Pavel Karpov, (22) Ivan Glukhov, (23) Nikolai Budilo, courts for possession of a controlled drug in the Greater (24) Oleg Urzhumtsev, (25) Aleksandr Kuvaldin, (26) London area (includes the City of London and Victor Voronin, (27) Stanislav Gordievsky, (28) Natalia Metropolitan police force areas) from 2006 to 2010 Yakimovich, (29) Sergei Lazutkin, (30) Arkady Mazhaev, (latest available) can be viewed in the table. (31) Aleksandr Burov, (32) Andrey Pechegin, (33) Viktor Grin, (34) YelenaKhimina, (35) Sergei Zhemchuzhnikov, Court proceedings data are not available at parliamentary (36) Raisa Burmistrova, (37) Aleksandra Kuznetsova, constituency level. (38) Yulia Koltunova, (39) Olga Stepanova, (40) Olga Annual court proceedings data for 2011 are planned Tsymay, (41) Svetlana Dubrovskaya, (42) Olga Davydova, for publication in May 2012. (43) Yekaterina Frolova, (44) Olesya Shargorodskaya, Number of persons proceeded against at magistrates courts for (45) Maksim Tretyakov, (46) Ivan Prokopenko, (47) possession of a controlled drug, Greater London1, 2006-102, 3 Dmitry Komnov, (48) Dmitry Krato, (49) Larisa Litvinova, 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 (50) Sergei Podoprogorov, (51) Aleksey Krivoruchko, (52) Svetlana Ukhnalyova, (53) Yelena Stashina, (54) Number 7,205 8,213 10,109 10,546 11,549 Galina Filippova, (55) Tatyana Korneyeva, (56) Rufina of proceedings Gazizova, (57) Andrey Yushkov, (58) Jelena Kim, (59) Ildar Salimzyanov and (60) Margarita Zinurova is the 1 Includes City of London and Metropolitan police force areas. 2 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons subject of (a) a UK visa ban and (b) a ban order for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they freezing their assets in the UK. [97309] were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is Damian Green [holding answer 29 February 2012]: In imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory line with long established practice the Home Office does maximum penalty is the most severe. not comment on individual cases. 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by Licensed Premises: Greater London the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for the taken into account when those data are used. Source: Home Department how many establishments in (a) Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice the London borough of Bexley and (b) London have had their licence to sell alcohol withdrawn in each year Emergency Calls since 2005. [96808]

Gareth Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for the James Brokenshire: Available data relates to the numbers Home Department how many (a) genuine and (b) of premises licences suspended by a court or served a malicious emergency calls were received by Kent police closure notice and club premises certificates withdrawn in each of the last three years. [98260] (under section 90) for the London borough of Bexley and all London boroughs in total. The information is available from 2006-07 to 2009-10 and is given in the Nick Herbert: The latest figures are available from the tables set out as follows: Home Office and show the number of 999 calls received by Kent police, 2008-09 to 2010-11. These figures are Table 1: Number of licences suspended by a court1 or withdrawn2, provisional, subject to change and have not been verified Bexley and London boroughs, April 2006 to March 2007 by the force. The breakdown of whether the emergency Premises licences Club premises calls were genuine or malicious is not held centrally by certificates the Home Office. Withdrawn Licensing authority Suspended by a court (section 90) Number of 999 calls received by Kent police, 2008-09 to 2010-111, 2 Bexley borough 0 0 Number London boroughs 60 2008-09 188,191 total 2009-10 259,227 1 Where a premises licence is suspended following a review, or from 6 2010-11 265,934 April 2007, where a premises licence is suspended by a court, under 1 section 147B(1) of the Licensing Act 2003 (as amended by the Violent All figures are provisional, subject to change and have not been Crime Reduction Act 2006) for the sale or supply of alcohol, following verified by the force. 2 an offence of persistently selling to underage children. Source: Home Office using data received from police forces via the 2 Where a club premises certificate is withdrawn under section 90 of Annual Data Requirement, ADR441. the Licensing Act 2003. 1 Freezing Orders Table 2: Number of licences suspended by a court , served closure notice2 or withdrawn3, Bexley and London boroughs, April 2007 to March 2008 Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Premises licences Club premises Department whether (1) Alexi Anichin, (2) Oleg Logunov, certificates (3) Oleg Silchenko, (4) Alexander Matveev, (5) Gennady Licensing Suspended by Withdrawn authority a court Closure notice (section 90) Karlov, (6) Natalya Vinogradova, (7) Alexander Ryabinin, (8) Sergei Oleinik, (9) A A Malygina, (10)MOSapunova, Bexley borough 0 0 0 833W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 834W

Table 2: Number of licences suspended by a court1, served closure Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for notice2 or withdrawn3, Bexley and London boroughs, April 2007 to the Home Department when she plans to answer the March 2008 letter sent to the Minister for Immigration by the right Premises licences Club premises hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton on 23 January certificates with regard to Ms N. Ali. [98292] Licensing Suspended by Withdrawn authority a court Closure notice (section 90) Damian Green: I refer the right hon. Member to my London 3171letter of 5 March 2012. boroughs4 total 1 Where a premises licence is suspended by a court, under section Metals: Theft 147B(1) of the Licensing Act 2003 (as amended by the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006) for the sale or supply of alcohol, following an offence of persistently selling to underage children. Mrs Ellman: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2 Where a premises is prohibited from selling alcohol for 48 hours Home Department what reports she has received on the following a closure notice under S.169A. This information was collected for the first time during 2007-08. number of instances of metal theft that involved liquified 3 Where a club premises certificate is withdrawn under section 90 of petroleum gas cylinders, in the two most recent years the Licensing Act 2003. for which figures are available. [97429] 4 The borough of Bromley could not extract closure and withdrawn information from their system. James Brokenshire: We believe that the theft of gas Table 3: Number of licences suspended by a court1, served closure cylinders for their scrap value is a growing problem. notice2 or withdrawn3, Bexley and London boroughs, April 2008 to March 2009 The Home Office and the Association of Chief Police Premises licences Club premises Officers are working with UKLPG, the trade association certificates for the Liquid Petroleum Gas industry, and the scrap Licensing Suspended by Withdrawn metal industry to highlight the serious risks associated authority a court Closure notice (section 90) with handling cylinders that contain flammable gas, and to promote legitimate disposal routes. Crime data Bexley borough 0 0 0 held centrally by the Home Office are not however London 242available at the level of detail required to provide specific boroughs total information relating to the theft of liquefied petroleum 1 Where a premises licence is suspended by a court, under section gas cylinders. 147B(1) of the Licensing Act 2003 (as amended by the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006) for the sale or supply of alcohol, following an offence of persistently selling to underage children. Graham Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2 Where a premises is prohibited from selling alcohol for 48 hours Home Department what proportion of the funding set following a closure notice under S.169A. aside for a metal theft task force has been allocated; 3 Where a club premises certificate is withdrawn under section 90 of and in which areas of the UK it is being spent. [97855] the Licensing Act 2003. Table 4: Number of licences suspended by a court1, served closure notice2 or withdrawn3, Bexley and London boroughs, April 2009 to James Brokenshire: The British Transport Police is March 2010 the lead agency for the delivery of the national Metal Premises licences Club premises Theft Taskforce and is responsible for developing, certificates implementing and managing the taskforce, including Licensing Suspended by Withdrawn how funding is allocated and in which areas. The taskforce authority a court Closure notice (section 90) will operate in England, Wales and Scotland. Bexley borough 0 1 0 The Home Office will report on the taskforce’s progress London 0160in due course. boroughs total 1 Where a premises licence is suspended by a court, under section National Crime Agency: Costs 147B(1) of the Licensing Act 2003 (as amended by the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006) for the sale or supply of alcohol, following an offence of persistently selling to underage children. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State 2 Where a premises is prohibited from selling alcohol for 48 hours for the Home Department what the projected cost is of following a closure notice under S.169A. establishing a shadow National Crime Agency as set 3 Where a club premises certificate is withdrawn under section 90 of out in her Department’s Business Plan 2011-15. [97530] the Licensing Act 2003. Alcohol licensing statistics for 2005 are not available Nick Herbert [holding answer 5 March 2012]: The centrally. Home Office business plan 2011-15 committed to introducing a shadow the National Crime Agency. Costs will be minimal in this phase as it will primarily be Members: Correspondence about ensuring better co-ordination of existing law enforcement activity. Any additional costs will be funded from existing budgets. Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department when she expects to respond to the Police letter of 24 February 2012 from the hon. Member for Harrow West on the possible deportation of a constituent Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for the to Sri Lanka; and if she will make a statement. [97659] Home Department what guidance her Department issues to police authorities on the effect of the changes Damian Green [holding answer 1 March 2012]: I refer in expenditure by her Department on reorganisation of the hon. Member to my letter of 28 February 2012. front-line services. [98081] 835W Written Answers7 MARCH 2012 Written Answers 836W

Nick Herbert: The Government have not issued any uninsured. Around 90% of businesses and individuals such guidance. Decisions on force spending are for affected by the riots were insured, and able to make a individual chief constables and their police authorities claim to their insurance company. For those without (and, from November this year, police and crime insurance, the Government set up a claims handling commissioners). The Government do, however, have a bureau to help victims make claims from their police clear expectation that frontline services should be prioritised authority and the majority of these have now been and we are supporting the police service in a number of processed. ways to deliver transformational change in order to do UK Border Agency so. Police: Information and Communications Technology Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many UK Border Agency (UKBA) Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State employees will be transferred to the UK Border Force for the Home Department what estimate she has made when it is separated from the UKBA. [97436] of costs associated with establishing a police information Damian Green: Under current assumptions, it is estimated and communications technology company. [97776] that 7,539 full-time equivalent Border Force staff will Nick Herbert: The costs associated with establishing transfer from the UK Border Agency. This does not a police information communications technology company include any additional UK Border Agency support are being examined. The company will be delivered staff that may transfer as a result of ongoing discussions. within existing, funding allocations and projected costs West Midlands Police will be subject to official scrutiny in the full business case. Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for the Reoffenders: Foreign Nationals Home Department (1) how many officers are based at each of West Midlands Police Authority’s Road Traffic Policing Unit bases; and how many arrests such officers Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the have made in the latest period for which figures are Home Department how many foreign nationals formerly available; [98040] held in immigration removal centres and released (2) how many specially trained traffic officers will be subsequently reoffended in the latest period for which employed by the West Midlands Police Authority’s figures are available. [90042] Road Traffic Policing Unit in each of the next four years; [98042] Damian Green [holding answer 16 January 2012]: In the period between April 2010 and March 2011, 153 (3) how many specially trained traffic officers worked foreign national offenders who met the deportation for the West Midlands Police Authority’s Road Traffic criteria and were formerly held in an immigration removal Policing Unit in each of the last three years. [98044] centre have subsequently reoffended. Nick Herbert: This information is not collected centrally. This information is taken from internal management These are matters for the chief constable of west midlands information and is subject to change. police. Riots (Damages) Act 1886 Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what assessment she has made of Tom Brake: To ask the Secretary of State for the the effect of changes in expenditure by her Department Home Department what arrangements have been made on the West Midlands Police Authority’s Road Traffic for (a) acknowledging and (b) reporting progress to Policing Unit; and if she will make a statement. [98043] claimants on claims under the Riots (Damages) Act 1886 relating to the riots of August 2011. [97412] Nick Herbert: No such assessment has been made by the Home Office. Decisions on force spending—including Nick Herbert: Police Authorities are responsible for on road traffic policing units—are for individual chief acknowledging and assessing claims under the Riot constables and their police authorities (and, from November Damages Act, both from insurance companies and this year, police and crime commissioners) to make those directly from individuals and businesses who were within the resources available.

ORAL ANSWERS

Wednesday 7 March 2012

Col. No. Col. No. NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 827 NORTHERN IRELAND—continued Bill of Rights ...... 831 United Kingdom...... 829 Defence Capability...... 836 Economic Development...... 835 PRIME MINISTER ...... 837 Inward Investment ...... 833 Engagements...... 837 Pat Finucane Review...... 832 Engagements...... 844 Security Situation...... 827 Visits (Central Ayrshire)...... 844 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Wednesday 7 March 2012

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 59WS HEALTH...... 60WS Cabinet Committee List ...... 59WS NHS Pension Scheme ...... 60WS

DEFENCE...... 59WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 60WS Medical Assessment Programme...... 59WS Justice and Home Affairs Council...... 61WS Police and Crime Commissioners (Pay)...... 60WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 59WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 63WS Single Payment Scheme...... 59WS Disability Employment Support...... 63WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Wednesday 7 March 2012

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 782W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT—continued Departmental Responsibilities ...... 782W Diamond Jubilee 2012: Medals ...... 779W Departmental Secondment ...... 782W Sports: Young People...... 779W Financial Services: Conveyancing ...... 783W Foreign Investment in UK ...... 783W DEFENCE...... 780W Higher Education...... 783W Air Training Corps...... 780W Industry: Water...... 784W Departmental Disclosure of Information...... 780W Office of Fair Access: Manpower...... 784W Future Local Area Air Defence System ...... 780W Overseas Trade: Egypt ...... 784W Military Afloat Reach and Sustainability South West Regional Development Agency: Pay.... 785W Programme ...... 781W Trading Standards...... 785W MOD Bicester...... 781W University Technical Colleges ...... 785W USA: Military Alliances...... 782W

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 765W EDUCATION...... 798W Coastal Communities Fund ...... 765W Academies...... 798W Fire Services: Emergency Calls...... 766W Academies: Private Finance Initiative ...... 798W First Time Buyers ...... 766W Boarding Schools...... 799W Homelessness: Greater London ...... 767W Building Schools for the Future Programme ...... 799W Housing Benefit ...... 767W Food Technology: Curriculum ...... 800W Housing: Construction...... 768W Free School Meals...... 800W Housing Improvement: Finance...... 767W GCSE ...... 801W Land: Planning Permission ...... 769W GCSE: Disadvantaged ...... 801W Land: Sales ...... 770W Literacy: Secondary Education ...... 802W Local Government: Calderdale ...... 770W Mathematics: GCSE ...... 802W Local Government: Complaints...... 771W Military Academies...... 803W Local Government: North East ...... 771W Ofsted: Inspections ...... 803W Local Government: Pay ...... 771W Personal, Social, Health and Economic Planning Permission ...... 772W Education ...... 804W Planning Permission: Incinerators...... 772W Private Education...... 804W Urban Areas: Planning Permission ...... 773W Schools: Admissions ...... 805W Urban Areas: Regeneration...... 773W Schools: Capital Investment...... 806W Waste Management...... 773W Schools: Crimes of Violence ...... 806W Schools: Governing Bodies ...... 806W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 778W Schools: Standards...... 807W Arts: Asians ...... 778W Schools: Teaching Methods ...... 809W Col. No. Col. No. EDUCATION—continued HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Science: GCSE ...... 809W Drugs: Crime ...... 830W Science: Schools ...... 810W Emergency Calls ...... 831W Secondary Education ...... 811W Freezing Orders...... 831W Students: Finance ...... 811W Licensed Premises: Greater London...... 832W Teachers: Employment...... 812W Members: Correspondence ...... 833W Teachers: Recruitment ...... 812W Metals: Theft ...... 834W Teachers: Redundancy ...... 813W National Crime Agency: Costs...... 834W Teachers: Training...... 814W Police ...... 834W University Technical Colleges ...... 815W Police: Information and Communications Technology ...... 835W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 786W Reoffenders: Foreign Nationals...... 835W Departmental Ethnic Minority Staff...... 786W Riots (Damages) Act 1886 ...... 835W Natural Gas: Exploration ...... 787W UK Border Agency ...... 836W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 787W West Midlands Police...... 836W

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 763W AFFAIRS...... 775W Big Ben: Tourism ...... 763W Agriculture: Droughts...... 775W Catering ...... 764W Broadband: Finance ...... 775W Droughts: Subsidence ...... 775W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 792W Fish: Marketing ...... 776W Conflict Prevention ...... 792W Pet Animals Act 1951...... 776W Corruption...... 792W River Thames: Sewage ...... 777W Developing Countries: Health Services ...... 793W Tyres: Exports...... 777W Developing Countries: HIV Infection ...... 793W Water: Olympic Games 2012...... 777W Private Sector...... 794W Somaliland...... 795W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 738W Sudan: Debts ...... 796W Burma...... 738W Syria...... 796W Departmental Data Protection...... 739W West Africa ...... 797W Henderson Island...... 740W Mali ...... 740W JUSTICE...... 743W Nigeria...... 741W Antisocial Behaviour Orders ...... 743W Occupied Territories...... 741W Departmental Carbon Emissions ...... 743W Private Education...... 741W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 744W Yemen ...... 742W Domestic Violence ...... 744W Zimbabwe ...... 742W Fines ...... 744W Prisoners: EU Nationals ...... 745W HEALTH...... 815W Prisoners: Repatriation ...... 751W Asthma ...... 816W Public Expenditure...... 751W Cancer: Drugs...... 816W Reoffenders...... 752W Cancer: Health Services ...... 817W Repossession Orders ...... 754W Cardiovascular system: Health Services ...... 818W Repossession Orders: North West ...... 755W Departmental Manpower...... 819W Sentencing...... 756W Departmental Senior Civil Servants...... 819W Sentencing: Mental Health...... 758W Health: Finance ...... 820W Sentencing: Young People ...... 758W HIV Infection: Greater London...... 820W Translation Services ...... 759W Influenza: Vaccination ...... 815W Lyme Disease...... 820W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 774W Lyme Disease: Blood Tests...... 821W Corporation Tax ...... 774W Maternity Services ...... 822W Eurozone...... 774W Medical Treatments abroad...... 822W High Profile Anniversaries ...... 774W National Health Service Commissioning Boards ... 816W Security...... 774W NHS: Procurement ...... 822W NHS: Reform...... 823W TRANSPORT ...... 761W NHS: Reorganisation...... 823W A453 ...... 761W Palliative Care...... 823W Action for Employment ...... 761W Patient Access Scheme ...... 824W Bus Services: Concessions ...... 761W Physiotherapy: Administrative Delays...... 825W Crossrail: Contracts ...... 761W Prescription Drugs: Shortages...... 825W Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency: Disclosure Spinal Injuries: Health Services...... 826W of Information...... 762W Transplant Surgery: Waiting Lists...... 827W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 762W Motorways: Speed Limits ...... 762W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 828W Oil: EU Action...... 762W Alcoholic Drinks: Redditch ...... 828W Transport: Industrial Disputes ...... 763W Alcoholic Drinks: Southampton ...... 829W Asylum ...... 829W TREASURY ...... 731W Civil Disorder ...... 829W Bank of England: Scotland...... 731W Crime...... 830W Capital Allowances ...... 732W Detention Centres...... 830W Capital Gains Tax ...... 732W Detention Centres: Children ...... 830W Capital Gains Tax: Second Homes...... 731W Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY—continued WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 797W Excise Duties: Alcoholic Drinks...... 732W Equalities and Human Rights Commission ...... 797W Government Departments: Procurement ...... 734W Equalities and Human Rights Commission: Higher Education: Northern Ireland...... 734W Scotland...... 798W Housing Revenue Accounts: Wales ...... 735W Monetary Policy ...... 735W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 787W Moody’s Investor Services: Press Releases ...... 735W Atos Healthcare ...... 787W National Insurance: Insolvency...... 735W Carer’s Allowance...... 788W NHS: Reorganisation...... 736W Housing Benefit ...... 788W Pensions: Teachers ...... 736W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 788W Public Expenditure...... 736W Nuclear Information ...... 788W Public Expenditure: Wales ...... 737W Pensions...... 789W Public Sector Net Cash Requirement ...... 737W Redundancy: Private Sector ...... 789W Smuggling: Alcoholic Drinks ...... 737W Social Security Benefits...... 789W Tax Avoidance: Civil Servants...... 737W Social Security Benefits: Hyndburn...... 790W Tax Collection: Complaints ...... 738W Social Security Benefits: Northern Ireland...... 791W Taxation: Motor Vehicles...... 738W Universal Credit: Housing Benefit ...... 791W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Wednesday 14 March 2012

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their Speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), on application to the Stationery Office, c/o the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons, from whom the terms and conditions of reprinting may be ascertained. Application forms are available at the Vote Office.

PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords, £3·50. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords, £525. WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords, £6. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440. Lords, £225. Index: Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volumeof House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. All prices are inclusive of postage Volume 541 Wednesday No. 275 7 March 2012

CONTENTS

Wednesday 7 March 2012

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 827] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Prime Minister

Diamond Jubilee [Col. 849] Motion—(The Prime Minister)—agreed to

Opposition Day [Un-allotted half day] Changing Perceptions of Northern Ireland [Col. 883] Motion—(Dr McCrea)—agreed to

Backbench Business [Un-allotted day] Sergei Magnitsky [Col. 928] Motion—(Mr Raab)—agreed to

Employment Support [Col. 952] Statement—(Maria Miller)

Petitions [Col. 974]

Historical Enquiries Team [Col. 976] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Safety of Offshore Oil and Gas Activities [Col. 983] Motion, on a deferred Division, agreed to

Westminster Hall Fire Service (Metropolitan Areas) [Col. 271WH] DVLA Closures (Scotland) [Col. 295WH] Veterans (Mental Health) [Col. 302WH] Typhoon Aircraft (Exports) [Col. 326WH] Syria and Lebanon [Col. 334WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 59WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 731W] [see index inside back page]