Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 30th Legislature Second Session Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights Monday, May 17, 2021 10 a.m. Transcript No. 30-2-1 Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 30th Legislature Second Session Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights Sigurdson, R.J., Highwood (UC), Chair Rutherford, Brad, Leduc-Beaumont (UC), Deputy Chair Ganley, Kathleen T., Calgary-Mountain View (NDP) Glasgo, Michaela L., Brooks-Medicine Hat (UC) Goodridge, Laila, Fort McMurray-Lac La Biche (UC) Hanson, David B., Bonnyville-Cold Lake-St. Paul (UC) Milliken, Nicholas, Calgary-Currie (UC) Nielsen, Christian E., Edmonton-Decore (NDP) Orr, Ronald, Lacombe-Ponoka (UC) Rowswell, Garth, Vermilion-Lloydminster-Wainwright (UC) Schmidt, Marlin, Edmonton-Gold Bar (NDP) Sweet, Heather, Edmonton-Manning (NDP) Support Staff Shannon Dean, QC Clerk Teri Cherkewich Law Clerk Trafton Koenig Senior Parliamentary Counsel Vani Govindarajan Legal Counsel Philip Massolin Clerk Assistant and Director of House Services Michael Kulicki Clerk of Committees and Research Services Sarah Amato Research Officer Melanie Niemi-Bohun Research Officer Nancy Robert Clerk of Journals and Research Officer Warren Huffman Committee Clerk Jody Rempel Committee Clerk Aaron Roth Committee Clerk Rhonda Sorensen Manager of Corporate Communications Janet Laurie Supervisor of Corporate Communications Jeanette Dotimas Communications Consultant Michael Nguyen Communications Consultant Tracey Sales Communications Consultant Janet Schwegel Director of Parliamentary Programs Amanda LeBlanc Deputy Editor of Alberta Hansard Transcript produced by Alberta Hansard May 17, 2021 Real Property Rights RP-1 10 a.m. Monday, May 17, 2021 reminded to leave the appropriate distance between themselves and Title: Monday, May 17, 2021 rp other meeting participants. [Mr. Sigurdson in the chair] Please note that the microphones are operated by Hansard staff. Committee proceedings are live streamed on the Internet and The Chair: Good morning, everyone. I’d like to call the first meeting broadcast on Alberta Assembly TV. The audio- and videostream of the Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights to order and transcripts of the meeting can be accessed via the Legislative and welcome everyone in attendance. Assembly website. Those participating by videoconference are My name is R.J. Sigurdson, MLA for Highwood and chair of this asked to please turn on your camera while speaking and mute your committee. I’d ask that members and those joining the committee microphone when you are not speaking. Members participating at the table introduce themselves for the record, and then I will call virtually who wish to be placed on a speakers list are asked to e- on those joining in by videoconference. I will begin to my right. mail or send a message in the group chat to the committee clerk, and members in the room are asked to please signal to the chair. Mr. Rutherford: Thank you. Brad Rutherford, MLA, Leduc- Please set your cellphones and all other devices to silent for the Beaumont. duration of the meeting. Mr. Rowswell: Garth Rowswell, MLA, Vermilion-Lloydminster- Hon. members, section 6 of the Legislative Assembly Act Wainwright. authorizes members of the committees of the Legislative Assembly to participate by teleconference or other methods of communication Mr. Orr: Ron Orr, MLA for Lacombe-Ponoka. if unanimous consent is granted. As members are aware, the committee rooms are equipped to facilitate meeting participation by Mr. Milliken: Nicholas Milliken, MLA for Calgary-Currie. teleconference and videoconference. For members to participate at this meeting using one of these methods, the committee either must Mr. Schmidt: Marlin Schmidt, Edmonton-Gold Bar. pass a motion unanimously to allow for teleconferencing and videoconferencing today, or members may instead pass a motion to Mr. Nielsen: Good morning, everyone. Chris Nielsen, MLA for Edmonton-Decore. approve attendance by teleconference or videoconference for the duration of the committee’s mandate. This would not preclude the Ms Sweet: Good morning. Heather Sweet, MLA, Edmonton- committee from determining that members’ attendance in person at Manning. specific committee meetings is required. Do members have any questions about this issue? If not, would Ms Govindarajan: Vani Govindarajan, office of Parliamentary there be a member willing to move a motion to authorize participation Counsel. by teleconference or videoconference? I recognize Mr. Orr. Mr. Kulicki: Good morning. Michael Kulicki, clerk of committees Mr. Orr: Mr. Chair, I do have a question. Oh, you know what? and research services. Never mind. I’ll save it for later. Thank you. Mr. Huffman: Good morning. Warren Huffman, committee clerk. The Chair: If there are no other questions, is there anyone that The Chair: Joining us by videoconference, we have Ms Ganley. would wish to move a motion for this? Can you please introduce yourself? Mr. Nielsen: So moved, Chair. Ms Ganley: Good morning. Kathleen Ganley, MLA for Calgary- Mountain View. The Chair: Motion moved by Mr. Nielsen. I do believe that for the purpose of those on – we will get it up on the screen here quickly. The Chair: As well, we have Ms Glasgo. Please introduce yourself. Mr. Nielsen: For the duration. Ms Glasgo: Good morning. Michaela Glasgo, MLA, Brooks- Medicine Hat. The Chair: For the duration? Thank you, Mr. Nielsen. Okay. So I’ll read it out. Moved by Mr. Nielsen that The Chair: As well, we have Ms Goodridge. for the duration of its mandate the Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights permit Members of the Legislative Assembly Ms Goodridge: Good morning. Laila Goodridge, MLA for Fort to participate in committee meetings by teleconference or McMurray-Lac La Biche. videoconference subject to the proviso that the committee may require members’ attendance in person at a particular meeting The Chair: And finally, Mr. Hanson. upon passage of a motion to that effect. Mr. Nielsen, does that reflect the intention of your motion? Mr. Hanson: Good morning. Dave Hanson, MLA, Bonnyville-Cold Lake-St. Paul. Mr. Nielsen: Yeah. You took the words right out of my mouth. The Chair: A few housekeeping items to address before we turn to The Chair: Excellent. the business at hand. Pursuant to the February 22, 2021, memo from All those in favour? All those opposed? Seeing none, the hon. Speaker Cooper I would remind everyone of the updated that motion is carried. committee room protocols, which encourage members to wear Moving on to agenda item 3, now, of course, we are involving masks in committee rooms and while seated except when speaking, those on videoconference for votes for the rest of the meeting. Are at which time they may choose not to wear a face covering. Based there any changes or additions to the draft agenda? on the recommendations from the chief medical officer of health If not, would somebody like to make a motion to approve the regarding physical distancing, attendees at today’s meeting are agenda? RP-2 Real Property Rights May 17, 2021 Mr. Milliken: I make a motion to approve. The Chair: Yeah. Thank you. Mr. Nielsen, I would think that the appropriate time for motions at this time would be under 5(b) of the The Chair: Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Milliken. Moved by Mr. Milliken agenda as submitted. that the agenda for the May 17, 2021, meeting of the Select Special Committee on Real Property Rights be adopted as distributed. All Mr. Nielsen: Okay. those in favour? On videoconference? Thank you. All those 10:10 opposed? Those on videoconference? That motion is carried. Moving on to item 4 on the agenda, committee orientation, (a) The Chair: Under item (b) I will explain the committee support mandate, hon. members, on March 22, 2021, the Legislative that this committee has at this time. As we conduct our review, we Assembly approved Government Motion 69, which sets out this have the nonpartisan support of the Legislative Assembly Office, committee’s mandate. For members’ reference, a copy of including Michael Kulicki, clerk of committees and research Government Motion 69 is available on the committee’s internal services, who oversees committee operations and attends meetings website. As members will appreciate, this committee has been to receive research assignments from the committee and co-ordinate given a broad mandate to review issues related to real property the work of the research team to ensure completion of research rights in Alberta, and we are required to report our recommenda- requests. Warren Huffman is the committee clerk assigned to the tions to the Assembly by December 15, 2021. committee and is available to provide administrative and procedural In accordance with Government Motion 69 this committee may assistance. Vani Govindarajan is legal counsel with the office of consider: Parliamentary Counsel and will be available to provide the (a) whether the legal remedies available to a real property committee with legal advice if necessary. Dr. Sarah Amato and Dr. owner who is deprived of the use of their real property Melanie Niemi-Bohun are the LAO research officers assigned to are adequate; this committee. We can also request assistance from corporate (b) whether the real property rights should be expanded, communications if we need their expertise. or in the case of an individual, constitutionally In addition to the staff that often join us at the table, there are staff protected; from other Legislative Assembly Office branches who support our (c) whether the law of adverse possession should be meetings, which include committee operations staff; members of abolished; the Legislative Assembly security services; the Alberta Hansard (d) whether the expropriation processes provided under staff, who record and transcribe the proceedings; and we have the the Expropriation Act are adequate; experts from ITS, who are working hard for us behind the scenes. (e) any other matter that the committee decides is Agenda item 5, determination of scope of review, (a) necessary to ensure the completeness of its review; subcommittee on committee business.