Tuesday Volume 632 5 December 2017 No. 63 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday 5 December 2017 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2017 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 869 5 DECEMBER 2017 870 and the City. Will the Minister update the House on the House of Commons negotiations in respect of the report’s principal concern, which is whether contracts will continue to be enforceable Tuesday 5 December 2017 and respected across the European Union after we leave? The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock Dominic Raab: In our negotiations with the EU, we have made it clear—for example, in our position paper PRAYERS on civil and judicial co-operation—that we want to maintain that win-win co-operation in areas such as recognition of contractual judgments, but also on decisions [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] in family law disputes that support businesses and individuals on all sides. BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Will REPORT OF THE MACUR REVIEW the Minister get out and meet more people in the justice Resolved, system? I have been talking to judges, barristers and That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, That campaigners who are all terrified about what will happen she will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid to our justice system if we leave the European Union. before this House a Return of parts of a Paper, entitled The Who is he talking to, and why does he not broaden his Report of the Macur Review (Revised Redacted Version): An circle? independent review of the Tribunal of Inquiry into the abuse of children in care in the former county council areas of Gwynedd Dominic Raab: May I gently suggest that the hon. and Clwyd in North Wales since 1974, dated 5 December 2017.— (Mike Freer.) Gentleman does not engage in such scaremongering? I have been talking to practitioners, legal groups and the judiciary. We have set out our plans in our position paper, and I would have thought that he would welcome Oral Answers to Questions that. Through the EU (Withdrawal) Bill, which I hope he will support, we will make sure that we have a smooth legal transition. JUSTICE Sir Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): Will the Minister confirm to the House that it is his The Secretary of State was asked— policy that the European Court of Human Rights will Leaving the EU: UK Legal System still have jurisdiction over Britain after we leave the EU? 1. Damien Moore (Southport) (Con): What steps the Dominic Raab: The right hon. Gentleman will know, Government plan to take to ensure the effective operation because it was in our manifesto and it has been repeated of the UK legal system after the UK leaves the EU. since, that we have no plans to withdraw from the [902740] European convention on human rights or the Strasbourg Court. 17. Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con): What steps the Government plan to take to ensure the effective operation Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): Does the Minister of the UK legal system after the UK leaves the EU. agree that we had a very effective legal system before we [902756] joined the EU, and we will have a very effective one for many years after we leave? The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Dominic Raab): The Government have made it a top priority to Dominic Raab: My hon. Friend is right. Of course, I ensure that there is a smooth legal transition, both in take very seriously the concerns of those who think we our negotiations with the EU and as a matter for our need to mitigate the risks, and that is what our negotiations domestic implementing legislation. and the EU (Withdrawal) Bill will do. We also have Damien Moore: What steps will the Department take a huge opportunity to promote UK legal services on a once we have left the EU to secure a review and possible global level through trade liberalisation and by promoting reversal of European Court of Justice rulings that are the UK as a hub for international dispute settlement. affecting British companies and citizens? We should grasp the opportunities as well as managing the risks. Dominic Raab: We are taking back control over our laws—that is what the European Union (Withdrawal) Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): Last Bill does—so that hon. Members in this House are month—just two weeks ago—while the House debated properly accountable to the voters and the UK Supreme the EU (Withdrawal) Bill, the Prime Minister’sspokesman Court has the last word on the law of the land. From told journalists that the Government expect the role of that point on, we can retain, revise or repeal any piece the European Court of Justice to remain unchanged of retained law as we see fit for the British national during an implementation period of two years after the interest. Brexit date in March 2019. Will the Minister confirm to the House that that means that it will not be possible to Robert Jenrick: The Minister may have seen the recent bring into force large parts of the EU (Withdrawal Bill), TheCityUK report, which underlined the importance including the repeal of the European Communities of the legal sector to the United Kingdom’s economy Act 1972, until the end of the implementation period? 871 Oral Answers 5 DECEMBER 2017 Oral Answers 872 Dominic Raab: The position is set out in the EU more money, because so many people in Hull are trying (Withdrawal) Bill, and the hon. and learned Lady will to represent themselves, and the President of the Supreme know from Committee debates that we have made it Court has said that the legal aid reforms are actually a very clear that we are not going to pre-empt or prejudge false economy. Does the Minister agree that restoring the outcome of the negotiations on either the withdrawal early legal advice would not only help solve some legal agreement or the implementation period. problems, but save taxpayers’ money? Joanna Cherry: Last week “Sky News” reported that Dominic Raab: I understand the point that the hon. the Government wish to stay in the European Aviation Lady is trying to make, and she has done so in a Safety Agency after Brexit and accept that that will constructive way, but I am not sure that the evidence is mean remaining under the jurisdiction of the European there to back up her assertion. We provide a wide range Court of Justice, because it is the ultimate arbiter of of legal help, for example in civil and family cases. Last EASA rulings. Will the Minister now confirm that this year we spent £100 million on legal help, including means the Prime Minister’s red line of no ECJ jurisdiction practical support and telephone helplines that provided after Brexit has been shown to be utterly and completely advice on 20,000 occasions last year. There are also untenable? online tools to make it clear to people when legal aid is available, but other sources of legal advice are also Dominic Raab: I am afraid that the hon. and learned available. Lady is relying yet again on second-hand reports via the media. We will not pre-empt or prejudice the outcome Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): When of negotiations on the partnership deal, and I hope that changes were made to legal aid in family matters, it was she will support us in getting the very best deal for that anticipated that there would be considerable growth in sector and for the UK as a whole. the use of mediation. In fact, the numbers using mediation have dropped massively, and all the evidence indicates Several hon. Members rose— that that is because early legal advice is a gateway to mediation for assisted parties and reduces the burden of Mr Speaker: Order. The hon. Member for Clacton litigants in person in the courts. Is it not time that the (Giles Watling) has an exactly similar question. I would Minister looked again at the issue? have called him if he were standing, but he was not, so I did not, but if he does, I will. No? The hon. Gentleman does not wish to do so. So be it; it is his choice. Dominic Raab: My hon. Friend is absolutely right that we need to be encouraging more alternative dispute Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Can the Minister resolution, and I think that there is agreement on both confirm that elements of our civil and criminal law go sides of the House that we should incentivise cases back to Magna Carta in 1215 and earlier, that our legal being settled and not going through the courts, because system is far more long established than any EU legal of the cost and the trauma for those involved. The system, that we have one of the most respected legal systems LASPO review provides an opportunity to look at all of in the world and that, as far as future laws in this this in the round, but I do not think that the answer will country are concerned, Brexit holds no fears for us? be exclusively about money; it will also be about the positive incentives that we put in place. Dominic Raab: My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. We have a rather different legal system, through Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): It is estimated our common law, and we have variations across the that providing early legal help in family court cases UK, but I think that we should have the courage of our would cost less than £14 million because, as the hon.