VICTORIA

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

FIFTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT

AUTUMN SESSION 1992

Legislative Assembly

VOL. 406

[From 17 March 1992 to 16 April 1992]

MELBOURNE: L V. NORm, GOVERNMENf PRINTER

The Governor His Excellency the Reverend OR JOHN OAVIS McCAUGHEY, AC The Lieutenant-Governor

The Honourable SIR JOHN McINfOSH YOUNG, AC, KCMG The Ministry

[AS FROM 28 JANUARY Iml Premier ...... The Hon. J. E. Kimer, AM, MP

Deputy Premier, Attorney-General, ...... The Hon. J. H. Kennan, QC, MP Minister for the Arts, and Minister for Major Projects

Minister for Manufacturing and ...... The Hon. O. R White, MLC Industry Development

Minister for Ethnic, Mtmidpal and ...... The Hon. C. J. Hogg, MLC Commtmity Affairs

Minister for Food and Agriculture ...... The Hon. 1. M. J. Baker, MP

Minister for Tourism, and Minister for ..... , The Hon. S. M. Crabb, MP Water Resources

Minister for Finance, and Minister Assisting The Hon. J. D. Harrowfield, MP the Minister for Labour on WorkCare

Minister for Health ...... The Hon. M A. Lyster, MLC

Minister for Planning and Housing ...... The Hon. A. McCutcheon, MP

Minister for Labour, and Minister for ...... The Hon. N. A. Pope, MP School Education

Minister for Conservation and ...... The Hon. B. T. Pullen, MLC Environment

Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary ., The Hon. T. W. Roper, MP Education and Training, Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, and Minister for Gaming

Minister for Police and Emergency ...... The Hon. M. J. Sandon, MP Services, and Minister for Corrections

Minister for Community Services ...... The Hon. K P. Setches, MP

Treasurer ...... The Hon. A. J. Sheehan, MP

Minister for Transport ...... The Hon. P. e. Spyker, MP

Minister for Consumer Affairs, Minister .... The Hon. T.e. Theophanous, MLC for Small Business, and Minister Assisting the Minister for Manufacturing and Industry Development on Corporatisation

Minister for Sport and Recreation ...... The Hon. N. B. Trezise, MP

Parliamentary Secretary of the Cabinet ..... The Hon. R A. Jolly, MP

FIFTY-FIRST PARLIAMENT-FlRST SESSION

Members of the Legislative Assembly

Member Distnct Part)' Member District Party

Andnan~ulos, Alex St Albans ALP McCrath, John Francis Warmambool NP AustIn, omas Leslie Rlpon LP McCrath, William Desmond Lowan NP Baker, lan Malcolm John SW\Shme ALP McNamara, Patrick John Benalla NP Barker, Mrs Ann Patricia Bentlelgh ALP Mac1ellan, Robert Roy Berwick LP ·"Batchelor, Peter Thomastown ALP Cameron Bildstien, Craig Stephen Mildura LP Mathews, Charles Race Oak1eigh ALP Brown, Alan John Gippsland West LP Thorson Cain,John Bundoora ALP ·Mau~han, Noel John Rodney NP Clark, Robert William Balwyn LP Mical ef, Edward Joseph Springvale ALP C0Fthill, Or Kenneth Alastair Werribee ALP Napthine, Dr Denis Vmcent Portland LP Co e, Neil Dcmald Melbourne ALP Norris, Terence Richard Dandenong ALP Coleman, Charles Geoffrey Syndal LP Perrin, David John Bu11een LP Cooper, Robert Fitz~rald Momington LP Perton, Victor John Donaster LP Crabb, Steven Mars 11 Knox ALP Peseot!, R~er Bennettswood LP Cunningham, David James Derrimut ALP Plowman, idney James Ev~ LP Delzoppo, John Edward Narracan LP Pope, Neil Albert M ulk ALP Dickinson, Harley Rivers South Barwon LP Ray, Mrs Margaret Box Hill ALP KSJ Elizabeth Dollis, Demetri Richmond ALP Reynolds, Thomas Carter Gisbome LP Elder, Stephen Noel Ballarat North LP Richardson, John In~les Forest Hill LP Emst, Graham Keith Bellarine ALP Roper, Thomas Wilham Brunswick ALP Evans, Bruce James Gippsland East NP Rowe, Barry John Es&endon ALP Fordham, Robert Clive Footscray ALP Sandon, Ma1colm John Carrum ALP ·-Garbutt, Mrs Sherryl Maree Greensborough ALP Seitz, Geo1e Keilor ALP Gavin, Peter Murral:a Coburg ALP Sercombe, obert Olarles Niddrie ALP Gude, Phil~ Archi Id Hawthorn LP Grant Hamilton, eith Graeme Morwell ALP Setches, Mrs Kay Patricia Ringwood ALP Harrowfield, John Dyson Mitcham ALP Sheehan, Anthon~ John Northcote ALP Harc;;ard, DoNld Keith Prahran LP Sheehan, Francis atrick BaUarat South ALP He feman, Vincent Patrick, Ivanhoe LP Shell, !:!f;den Kevin GeeIong ALP OAM Simm 5, James Lionel Reservoir ALP Hill, Mrs Jane Margaret Frankston North ALP Smith, Ernest Ross Glen Waverley LP Hirsh, Mrs Carol~ Dorothy Wantima ALP Smith, lan Winton Polwarth LP Hon~ood,PhiliP Warrandyte LP Spyker, Peter Comelis Mentone ALP Nev' e S~lI, ~Edward HedDr Swan Hill NP Jasper, Kenneth Stephen Murray Valley NP Stoe ale, A Robert Brighton LP John, Michael Bendigo East LP Tanner, Edgar Miles CAulfield LP Jolly, Robert Alien Doveton ALP Ponsonby Kennan, James Harley, QC Broadmeadows ALP Thomson, Kelvin John Pascoe Vale ALP Kennedy, Andrew David 8endigo West ALP Trez.iIe, Neil Benjilmin GeeJong North ALP Kennett, JeUrey Gibb Burwood LP Vaughan. Or Gerald <:Yyton ALP -·Kilgour, Donald Shehparton NP Marshall Kimer, Ms Joan Elizabeth, Wil iarnstown ALP Wade, Mn Jan Louise Murray Kew LP AM Wallace, Thomas William Gi~land South NP Lea, David John Sandringham LP Walsh, Ronald William Al Park ALP Leigh, Geoff~raeme Malvern LP Weideman. Geo~ Graeme Frankston South LP ~ton, M' I Andrew Preston ALP Wells, Or RonaJd &mes Dromana LP . nnan, Louis Stuart Benambra LP Herbert McCutcheon, Andrew St IGIda ALP Wilson, Mrs Janet Tmdale Dandenong North ALP McDonald, Maxwell John Whittlesea ALP CaJder

-Elected 4 Marcb 1989 --Elected IS April 1989 ---Elected 2 February 1990 --- -Elected 22 October 1991

FIFfY-FIRST PARLIAMENT-FIRST SESSION Speaker. The Hon. KEN COGHILL Chairman of Committee: Mr T. R. NORRIS Temponry Chairmen of Committees: Mc Delzoppo, Mr Emst, Mr Evans, Mrs Garbutt, Mr Jasper, Mr Lieberman, Mr McDonald, Mc J.F. McGrath, Mrs Ray, Mr Richardson, Mr F. P. Sheehan, Mr Shell, Mr Steggall, and Or Vaughan. Leilder of the ubor Puty and Premiu.1Oe Hon. J. E. KIRNER, AM Deputy Leilder of the ubor Party and Deputy PremJer. The Hon. J. H. KENNAN, QC Leader of the Parliamentuy Liberill Party and Leader of the Opposition: The Hon. }. G. KENNETT Deputy Leader of the Parliamentary-Liberill Puty and Deputy Leader of the Opposition: MrP. A.GUDE Leader of the Niltionill Party: Mr P. J. McNAMARA Deputy Luder of the National Party: Mr W. D. McGRATH

Heads of Parliamentary Departments Council - Oerk of the Parliaments and Oerk of the Legislative Council: Mr A. V. Bray

Assembly - Clerk of the Legislative Assembly: Mr J. G. little, J.P.

Hansard - Otief Reporter: Mr Eric Woodward

Library - librarian: Mr B. ]. Davidson

House - Acting Secretary: Mr W. F. McKelvie

DEA TH OF WILLIAM JOHN LEWIS, ESQUIRE

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 adjacent to the Penshurst Hospital was named after him in recognition of his contribution. Bill was delegate for the Glenelg Regional Hospitals Board and was a member of the Penshurst school committee. The SPEAKER (Hon. Ken Coghill) took the chair at 2.5 p.m. and read the prayer. He regarded his pursuit of sporting endeavours as an effective way of engendering a sense of DEATH OF WILLIAM JOHN LEWIS, community in the area where he worked. Often ESQUIRE friendly rivalry between neighbouring towns is the way to engender community spirit, and he certainly Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I move: showed plenty of friendly rivalry on the sporting field. That this House expresses its sincere sorrow at the death of William John Lewis, Esquire, and places on It is an understatement to say Bill was active in the record its acknowledgment of the valuable services sporting life of the district. Whether it was because rendered by him to the Parliament and the people of of his deep involvement in football that Bill received Victoria as member of the Legislative Assembly for the a medallion for his services from the Victorian electoral district of Portland from 1970 to 1973. Football League or whether it was because of his presidencies at various times of the Penshurst golf, Bill Lewis was born in Penshurst near Hamilton in race or cricket clubs or the well-known Port Fairy 1916 and died on 8 December last year. He was the District Football League, he actually became known Labor member for Portland in this place from 1970 by the nickname ''President''. In addition, Bill was to 1973. He was elected following a disagreement granted membership of the Western Border Football between the Liberal Party and the then Country League and the Penshurst Football Club. Party over plans for the Little Desert which led to the Country Party directing its preferences to Labor. He served as President of the Penshurst Youth Club During his brief Parliamentary career he was a and as secretary of the trustees of the Penshurst member of the Printing Committee. Recreation Reserve. He was a member of the Penshurst State School Committee for ten years and Bill's early working life was spent as a truck driver a member of the Hawkesdale High School advisory and a postal employee and he served with the committee, which is where I met him. Australian Military Forces during the second world war. In 1944 Bill joined the Australian Labor Party Bill Lewis is survived by his wife, Nonie, and his and later became president of the Penshurst branch five children; and I am pleased to note that some of and the Dundas State Electorate Committee. In 1947 his family are in the House to listen to the he became a cartage contractor in the Penshurst area condolences. and retired only in 1990. On behalf of my government I thank Bill Lewis for People, especially people in the Labor Party and his friendship and I extend condolences to Nonie people in his area, knew Bill Lewis best for his and the family. community involvement and those who have been Ministers at any time know that he was an Mr KENNETT (Leader of the Opposition) - I assiduous lobbyer of Ministers. That is not join with the government in supporting the motion. surprising because he was a lifelong campaigner for regional development. He joined the Mount Rouse Mr Lewis was a member of this House representing Shire in 1975 following his defeat in the State the people of Portland from 1970 to 1973, at which election. He was shire president from August 1982 time there were 18 900 constituents in the Portland to August 1983 and after eighteen years continuous electorate. service as a councillor was re-elected unopposed in 1991. He was a serving councillor when he died and In his maiden speech to the House in 1970 Mr Lewis his contribution was described as immeasurable. predicted that Portland would have a population of between 50 000 and 100 000 within the next ten or He was a longstanding member of the Penshurst twenty years. Although his prediction is yet to be Hospital Board. He was elected in 1965 and served fulfilled -we have another ten years to wait­ as president from 1977 to 1988. He was awarded a subsequent changes to electoral boundaries as well life governorship in 1990. A ten-bed nursing home DEA TH OF WILLIAM JOHN LEWIS, ESQUIRE

2 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992 as demographic changes have meant that today the Colleagues within his political party and members electorate of Portland contains 32 000 constituents. of his community have described him as a good and decent man. Those who knew him well, especially The electorate has been and is well represented by people in his local area, have expressed a strong some very colourful people, including the current feeling of loss at his death; but Bill Lewis will live member for Portland, Or Napthine, and one of his long in the minds of the people whose area he predecessors, the well-known raconteur, Don served so well. McKellar. On behalf of the Liberal Party I extend condolences In his maiden speech Mr Lewis made reference to to the family of the late Bill Lewis. many local issues including the plight of farmers in the Western District, the serious condition of the Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National wool industry and the three major industries in Party) - I join with the Premier and the Leader of Portland at that time - Borthwicks meatworks, the the National Party in supporting this condolence harbour trust and the wool stores. I am pleased to motion for William John Lewis, who served as a say that those industries have survived. Although member of Parliament representing the electoral wool sales are no longer held in the wool stores, they district of Portland between 1970 and 1973. continue to be used as a major wool storage area. Also, Portland was one of five towns selected as As has been outlined by other speakers, he had a regional development centres. wide involvement in almost every community activity within his area, and he served as a councillor Mr Lewis also highlighted the tourism potential of on the Mount Rouse Shire Council over a period of the region, a far-sighted notion given the importance eighteen years up until his death. He was also of tourism today, which we now take for granted. involved in sporting activities in his area, He advocated the establishment of a national park in particularly football. He received a medallion from the Kentbruck area, which is now part of the Glenelg the Victorian Country Football League for his National Park. He emphasised the importance of the services to the game. In his youth he played with the Port of Portland for the development of the region. Camperdown, Cobden and Hampden leagues and was a player in Penshurst's 1936 premiership side in Mr Lewis was faithful to the area he represented, the Western District League. He was also a life having spent his life in the district working as a member of the Portland and Port Fairy District cartage contractor, a truck driver and a postal Football League, the Mininera and District Football employee. He spent nearly 40 years working as a League, the Western Border Football League, and of quarry operator. course the Penshurst Football Club.

As the Premier said, Mr Lewis was a councillor of Bill Lewis was president and captain of the the Shire of Mount Rouse at Penshurst for the past Penshurst Cricket Club, president and champion of eighteen years. As the president of the committee of the Penshurst Golf Club, and a committee member the Penshurst Hospital he was a fearless advocate of of the Penshurst and District Racing Club. Among the continued development of the role of the his numerous community activities he was also hospital. A ten-bed nursing home adjacent to the President of the Penshurst Youth Club, secretary of hospital was named in his honour. the trustees of the Penshurst Recreation Reserve and a member of the Penshurst State School committee Mr Lewis served with the Australian Military Forces as well as the Hawkesdale High School advisory in the second world war. He had a keen interest in council. community organisations, serving as a member of school and sporting committees. He was a past Bill Lewis was also deeply involved with the affairs president and captain of the Penshurst Cricket Club of the local hospital committee, and a wing of the and president and champion of the Penshurst Golf hospital was named after him. He served as a board Club, as well as serving as a member of the member on that hospital committee for a number of committee of the Penshurst and District Racing Club. years, including an eleven-year period from 1977 to 1988, during which time he was president. He was He was faithful to the Labor Party. He joined the awarded a life governorship for his services. party in 1944, became president of the Penshurst branch and Dundas State Electorate Committee, and While in Parliament Bill Lewis was a member of the was elected to Parliament in May 1970. Printing Committee. He had a lifelong involvement DEA TH OF WILLIAM JOHN LEWIS, ESQUIRE

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 3

with the Australian Labor Party, and he remained a was the real foundation stone of the Penshurst area. stalwart of the Labor Party during his lifetime. His record in so many sports is well recorded and, as the Leader of the National Party said, Bill was a life On behalf of the National Party I join with the member of some four or five different country Premier and the Leader of the Opposition in football leagues. extending our condolences to Bill's wife, Nonie, and their five children. Bill received a medallion from the Victorian Country Football League for his services to football. That Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and speaks for his great work in the sporting field, allied Recreation) - I should like to record a few words in with his record of contribution to the hospital, other tribute to Bill Lewis because I was here when Bill sports, youth groups and scouting groups. Whatever first came to Parliament in 1970. At that time two was happening in Penshurst, you can guarantee that Lewises were elected for the Western District, Bill Bill's name was at the forefront; that will be Lewis and Eddie Lewis from Dundas. After his remembered for so long as there is a Penshurst and political career, Eddie Lewis went on to New the seat of Portland exists. Zealand and Bill Lewis stayed in the area he loved, Penshurst. I offer my condolences to the many thousands of mates Bill had throughout Victoria, on all sides of Bill was a fellow that one could describe as a good politics and in all fields of community activity. I say, bloke and, in all fairness, I believe his successor, Don 'Well played, Bill; I was proud to know you". To his McKellar, was also regarded as a good bloke, so I wife and family, I say, ''You must be proud to have suppose it has something to do with that district. had such a husband and father".

An honourable member interjected. Or NAPTHINE (Portland) - I join other speakers in paying tribute to the life and work of the Mr TREZISE - He is still halfway through his late Bill Lewis, who represented the seat of Portland career, so we can't say that yet. - which I now have the honour to represent - from 1970 to 1973. Bill Lewis was never a high-flier in Parliament; he did not want to be a high-flier, but he was a hard Among the most significant tributes paid to Bill was worker for his electorate in Parliament. He regularly a headline in the Hamilton Spectator after his death; it spoke in the adjournment debate about the local read, ''The patriarch of Penshurst has died". While needs of the people. When he went out in 1973 he in hospital before his death, he was termed the had certainly served his term very well. "unofficial mayor of Penshurst". That echoed the sentiments of everyone in western Victoria who I maintained a friendship with Bill through those associa ted Penshurst and Bill Lewis in the one three years and ever since because Bill and I had a breath. lot of things in common. He was a country person, and I think that people who live in rural areas have Bill Lewis was Penshurst, as others have said, something special about them. because his involvement in that community was outstanding. As the Minister for Sport and Bill had a great love for local sports. In fact, I think it Recreation has said, Bill was a good bloke. In recent was two or three days before he died that he years I had the privilege of knowing Bill. He attended a bike race. On the Sunday before he certainly epitomised the country fellow who had passed away he rang me at home at about 10 o'clock worked hard all his life. He worked hard within his at night. I grabbed the telephone - it was late - but community and was an excellent person throughout it was Bill on the other end wanting something done his life. for him. He asked me to speak to a sporting group, which I did in memory of Bill, because by that time His public contributions were quite significant and I Bill had passed away. shall reiterate some of those shortly. Mention was made at his funeral of the fact that he was also a Bill's record speaks for itself. As other speakers have very private contributor to the community. Anyone said, he was a lover of all community services. It is in Penshurst who needed a hand or any assistance or true to say that if an individual or an organisation in advice had only to knock on Bill's door or telephone Penshurst needed something it was Bill who would him - Bill was always ready to assist. That get it going, keep it going or develop it. Bill Lewis Significant tribute exemplified why he was DEATH OF WILLIAM JOHN LEWIS, ESQUIRE

4 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992 recognised in the community as the "unofficial Victorian Country Football League. He played, mayor of Penshurst". coached and served at all levels of committees for the clubs and leagues. He encouraged other people, He was a major servant of his community. Having particularly children, to become involved in football served three years in State Parliament, he served and sport. His involvement in the youth club attests eighteen years as a local councillor. Indeed, even on to that. the day before his death on Sunday the local newspaper contained a report of what Bill had said Bill Lewis was involved in the local racing club, golf in council about what should happen in future. He club, cricket club and recreation reserve committee. was active in his local community until the day he He served on the committees of many sporting died. He was involved in every conceivable group or groups in Penshurst. He served on the State school activity in Penshurst and district. council at Penshurst and the local Hawkesdale High School council. His life was one of true service to his I had the privilege of attending Bill's funeral; it was local community in sport, politics, the local hospital, a great tribute to his life. The many people present schools, local government and regional affairs. included members from both sides of Parliament, Cr Rex Mitchell, one of Bill's fellow councillors on including the Minister for Manufacturing and the Mount Rouse Shire Council, said: Industry Development, the Honourable David White; the then Minister for Conservation and He had at the heart the welfare of all the shire, although Environment, Steve Crabb; the honourable member he especially loved Penshurst. for Reservoir; former members of Parliament Tom Edmunds and Carl Kirkwood; the former That is clear. While he represented the local honourable member for Portland, Digby Crozier; the community, Penshurst was his great love. Honourable Roger Hallam in the other place; and me. That was quite a splendid attendance for a At his funeral it was said that he should have been fellow who well deserved it. buried at the top of Mount Rouse overlooking Penshurst so he could keep an eye on his town. It At Bill's funeral Father O'Toole highlighted Bill's was also said by somebody who knew him many activities and said he was basically driven by a extremely well that his boots should be buried at sense of fair play, fair dealing and justice. That Spring Street so that he could keep kicking the summarises what Bill was about; he was involved government of the day to look after Penshurst and because he saw it was important to be involved. its community. I am sure Bill would appreciate that comment because he did that for many years. One particular memory of Bill Lewis was the one time I saw him caught short for words. It occurred On behalf of the electorate of Portland that Bill once several years ago at the annual general meeting of served, I pass on my condolences to his wife and the Penshurst Hospital when the then Minister for family. Bill Lewis was a great person who will be Health, the Honourable Caroline Hogg, surprised sadly missed by the local community. Bill by announcing his appointment as a life governor of that hospital. That occasion was very Mr FORDHAM (Footscray) - It is my privilege moving for those who knew Bill and his love for the and pleasure to join the Premier and other speakers hospital. Everyone present was moved by his silence in support of the remarks made concerning the and his subsequent measured response because he Parliamentary life in particular but the public life in had worked hard throughout the community for general of Bill Lewis. It was my privilege to serve that hospital. with Bill in the State Parliamentary Labor Party and in the Victorian Parliament between 1970 and 1973. It is a tribute to Bill Lewis that the ten-bed nursing Bill was one of those people who left an indelible home was named after him while he was still alive. mark on my understanding of Labor history and of Buildings or parks are often named after people who local community representation. have contributed to them have passed on. The hospital wing was named after Bill during his Previous speakers have already outlined the nature lifetime, which is a great tribute to the work he put of Bill's association with Penshurst in particular, but into that hospital. also the electorate in general. His life is a remarkable litany. If there were an organisation in Penshurst, He was also actively involved at all levels of sport in Bill was part of it and almost certainly the leader of the community. He received a medallion from the it. The same role was also evidenced throughout the DEA TH OF WILLIAM JOHN LEWIS, ESQUIRE

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 5

wider electorate that he had the privilege to family, putting some order back into their lives was represent for some three years. nothing short of amazing given that at that point of his lifetime he had tremendous calls on his time. He was a person who dedicated his life to the Although to some it may have appeared to have service of people within his wider community. That been a very small incident in a person's life, it was was evident in sporting activities, local hospitals, an indication to me of Bill Lewis the man and what I local schools and a range of local community groups. was to come to appreciate about him as the years went by. After that period I came to know Bill Lewis Bill used to talk to me mostly about the Labor Party, much better. his view of it and its role in country Victoria, particularly western Victoria. The Labor Party has A lot has been said today about his involvement in had a very interesting tradition in that part of the local issues. I suggest that few people in small world. Earlier references have been made in this country areas would have contributed as much to Chamber to people like Bob McClure, Ernie Morton their local communities in time and effort as has Bill and Jack Jones. They were three of the characters Lewis, or with such effectiveness. He was an who represented the party in western Victoria in the outstanding contributor in many areas. If one 1950s. considers the geographic regions and distances between football leagues, I suggest that being made Bill Lewis was part of a later movement. The a life member of so many football leagues reveals Minister for Sport and Recreation mentioned Eddie the level of commitment and service he gave to local Lewis. Esmond Curnow was elected in 1970 and Les activities in the community. Shilton at about the same time. Bill Lewis was recognised as the unofficial mayor of There was a significant wave of people representing Penshurst because people looked to him for a lead. country areas from that part of the State. Bill was He never let them down; he was always able to give very proud to be of that tradition. Previous speakers them that lead. As the honourable member for have mentioned that Bill Lewis joined the Labor Portland said, Bill Lewis was parochial about Party in 1944. Those who are concerned with Labor Penshurst. He looked after his municipal history will know that a lot of people joined the responsibilities in the true sense, but he was Labor Party during and immediately after the war parochial about Penshurst and pursued the interests because of their experiences in the services and their of Penshurst at every opportunity. desire to change society. Bill was part of that. He considered it important to be part of his local A local councillor, Rex Mitchell, said one of the community. He stood up for the Labor Party when it things he always remembered about Bill Lewis was was not popular in parts of that local community that when he was elected to the council during a before and after he was elected. That pride and that Liberal government reign he was very critical of commitment will be with me for the rest of my life. some of its moves. He was always very quick to his feet to criticise anything that impeded what he I offer my commiserations to his wife and to his believed to be the progress of that area. To his great family. I assure them that many Victorians have credit, as Cr Mitchell will tell you, when the Labor appreciated Bill's service as a member of Parliament government came to power and the opportunity and that his memory will remain with me for the presented itself, Bill Lewis was not afraid to stand rest of my days. up and say what he thought. I think that is the thing that stood him above other people. Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool) - I have pleasure in joining with the Premier and other The honourable member for Footscray said Bill honourable members in paying tribute to the life of Lewis had a great commitment to his political party Bill Lewis. I had the pleasure of meeting Bill Lewis and to fairness for all people, but, regardless of who in the last year of his Parliamentary service in the he was criticising, he was not afraid to stand up and way the honourable member for Portland alluded to be judged on the merits of his arguments. when he said Bill Lewis sought to go out of his way to help people who encountered great difficulties in Bill Lewis will be remembered as an outstanding life. person because it did not matter what activity he was involved in; he was either the driver or the The amount of time Bill Lewis spent with one leader, but certainly he was one who made it particular person, and ultimately with the person's happen. DEATH OF LEO MICHAEL FENNESSY, ESQUIRE, OBE

6 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992

I guess when a person has years of activity Victoria as member of the Legislative Assembly for the associated with football clubs and grounds, as Bill electoral district of Brunswick East from 1955 to 1970. Lewis did, I can reflect on one funny story, which perhaps is best told by his family. I understand Bill Leo Michael Fennessy - which is a good name for Lewis was at a football match one day and was today -was a Labor member of the House. He was actively supporting his side when he became born in Warrnambool in 1907 and died suddenly at involved in a volatile argument with the fellow next home on 14 February this year. Leo Fennessy was to him. The argument went on for some time and the member for Brunswick East from 1955 to 1970. Bill put his hand in his pocket, took out a hankie and Over that fifteen-year period he served also as told the other fellow to wipe away whatever he had secretary of the Brunswick East branch of the in his eye. The other bloke jobbed Bill and gave him Australian Labor Party during what must have been a black eye. His family still laugh about that very interesting and traumatic times. incident. He was a real character. However, this comprised only part of a rich and Bill Lewis accepted the challenge all of us must face: varied working life that in many ways represented that we leave this place a little better than we found the working life of many people in the Labor Party. it. In the case of Penshurst and the Shire of Mount Leo received his formal education at St Thomas's Rouse, Bill Lewis has left the place a lot better than Christian Brothers College, Clifton Hill, and at the he found it. age of fifteen years commenced working in the boot trade industry, where he worked until 1929. I extend to his wife and family my sincere sympathy and that of my wife and family, as well, I am sure, as Leo then took up wheat farming in Western that of all of the people of the Warrnambool Australia with his brother but he was forced to electorate, as Penshurst was once part of that abandon that during the depression; he became a electorate. goldminer before joining the AIF in 1939. From 1939 to 1942 he was in the Royal Australian Engineers The SPEAKER - Order! I should like to add my and served in the Middle East; from 1942 to 1944 Leo words to the tribute being paid to Bill Lewis. I first was a sergeant working in base ordnance. He left the met Bill Lewis in the 1970s during the early stages of Army and worked as a Commonwealth public my membership of the Australian Labor Party. As servant in the Department of the Navy until 1950. other honourable members have said, Bill was a During the period 1950 to 1955 Leo was an industrial strong and loyal member of the ALP and a very officer for the Victorian Federated Clerks Union, a decent bloke, someone who was respected by Trades Hall Council delegate, and secretary of the everyone and whose views were carefully listened to ACTU Commonwealth Public Service Steering and considered by everyone, whether they were Committee. He became a justice of the peace in 1952. participating in a debate he might be party to or in conversation with him. During Leo's fifteen years in this place he sat on the Public Works Committee from 1958 to 1964; the As has been said today, Bill Lewis very proudly, House Committee from 1964 to 1970; and the actively and capably represented the world in which Drainage Committee from 1966 to 1970. He was also he had a part, and as the honourable member for the Labor Party's spokesperson for labour and Warrnambool said Bill Lewis certainly left this industry from 1967 to 1970. world, or his part of it, better than he found it. When announcing his retirement from Parliament, 1 should like to extend my condolences to Bill Leo was quoted as saying, '1 don't want to be a seat Lewis's wife and family. warmer, I believe the electorate deserves a younger representative". But when he did retire he did not DEATH OF LEO MICHAEL FENNESSY, allow himself much time to warm chairs anywhere, ESQUIRE, OBE according to a newspaper report. From 1970 to 1978 he was a member, and later chairman, of the Ms KIRNER (Premier) -I move: Environment Protection Council, which was set up to advise the Environment Protection Authority. He That this House expresses its sincere sorrow at the was also a member of the Develop Victoria Council death of Leo Michael Fennessy, Esquire, and places on and Melbourne Legacy. A friend of Leo's fondly record its acknowledgment of the valuable services remembers him as quietly spoken, modest, and a rendered by him to the Parliament and the people of man of strong faith and strong convictions, who DEATH OF LEO MICHAEL FENNESSY, ESQUIRE, OBE

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 7

served his party and the community with great On behalf of the Liberal Party I extend my loyalty at a time when loyalty to the Labor Party condolences to the family of the late Leo Fennessy. was sorely put to the test. Leo's efforts were recognised in 1974 when he received an OBE for Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National services to Parliament and the community. Party) - I join with the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition in the condolence motion for Leo Leo Fennessy is survived by his daughter, Carmel; Michael Fennessy, who served as member for the and on behalf of the government and the Labor electoral district of Brunswick East from 1955 until Party, I express condolences to Carmel and the 1970. family, but I am sure his services to the party, to the government and to the people of Victoria will stand Mr Fennessy was very much a traditionalist in his them in good stead. views. He came from quite a diverse background. During his lifetime he was at various stages a Mr KENNElT (Leader of the Opposition) - I goldminer, a public servant and a union official. He join with the Premier in supporting the condolence was born in Warmambool in 1907, the son of a motion. On this occasion much of what the Premier police superintendent. He was educated at has mentioned is covered in my notes as well, and I St Thomas's CBC, Clifton Hill; he worked in the boot do not want to repeat what has been said just for the trade from 1922 to 1929, during which period he also sake of speaking. However, Mr Fennessy spent a went, with his brother, to try to establish a wheat long time in this House, fifteen years, between 1955 farm in Western Australia. Unfortunately they were and 1970. forced to give up farming during the depression and he became a goldminer in Western Australia until There is no doubt that the highlight of his the outbreak of war in 1939, whereupon he Parliamentary career was his service on the Public immediately enlisted in the services, serving from Works Committee from 1958 to 1964. He involved that period on with various units in the Middle East himself in the investigation of potential resources of and also in other areas. the Ovens, Broken, King, Campaspe and Wimmera rivers, and he was fortunate enough to have seen the When he returned from the war he was employed as fruits of his labours in the lovely Lake Bellfield, Lake a public servant in the Deparbnent of the Navy from Eppalock, Lake Buffalo, Lake Nillahcootie and Lake 1944 to 1950, and he then entered a period of service Mokoan. as an industrial officer with the Victorian Federated Clerks Union from 1950 to 1955. The Premier has spoken about Mr Fennessy's career both prior to entering Parliament and afterwards. Following that he entered Parliament and served for The only other point I wish to make is that it was a a fifteen-year period as the member for Brunswick reflection of the times and the character both of East. He had a wide involvement in various Mr Fennessy and his competency and tha t of the Parliamentary committees, including the Public Premier of the day that Mr Fennessy was appointed Works Committee, the House Committee and the as Chairman of the Environment Protection Council Drainage Committee. Leo also served as a in 1973. In other words, here was a Premier of the Temporary Chairman of Committees from 1964 to day who was of a different political persuasion from 1967. the individual he appointed to head this important council. In those days that was often the case where When Leo Fennessy completed his period in an individual had achieved his or her own mark - Parliament he was appointed as a member and later mainly his mark - and where he had particular Chairman of the Environment Protection Council. In expertise that could be recognised and utilised in the 1974 he was honoured with an OBE. He made the public interest on an ongoing basis after tha t point that he was a traditionalist at heart and he was individual had left Parliament. quoted as saying that he always had great respect for the Crown. When accepting his OBE he said, '1 We probably do not see enough of that happening in think I'm in line with Labor Party thinking in both Parliamentary and post-Parliamentary life Britain". today for individuals who quite obviously have a contribution to make. The end of their Parliamentary Leo was an individual who served the Labor Party careers should not necessarily be the end of their for an extended period and made a contribution to work on behalf of the community they have served Parliament. so well in this place. ADJOURNMENT

8 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992

On behalf of the National Party I join with the implications of the then Melbourne and Premier and the Leader of the Opposition in Metropolitan Board of Works plan for Melbourne extending our condolences to Leo's daughter, were properly considered not just by government Carmel. but by the community.

Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, I was saddened to learn of Leo's death. As I said Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I join before, he made an important contribution not only with other honourable members in this condolence to Brunswick but also to Victoria as a whole. I motion for Leo Fennessy. Leo was the member for express my condolences to his daughter, Carmel, his Brunswick East for fifteen years, from 1955 to 1970. son-in-law and his grandchild. During that time he worked extremely hard for many local organisations in that electorate, which The SPEAKER - Order! I desire to add my ranged from small parts of Coburg through into comments in tribute to Leo Michael Fennessy. He Collingwood and a large part of Brunswick. had a distinguished Parliamentary career, although it began relatively late in his life. Clearly he made a As has been mentioned, Leo had a varied career major contribution to the development of public prior to entering Parliament in 1955 and, indeed, works in Victoria through his membership between when one looks at his career one sees the 1958 and 1964 of the Public Works Committee. He is commitment he had to the Labor Party in his also widely recognised on both sides of politics for decision to stand in 1955 because he came from a the particular skills he had. Those skills were Catholic background and was an officer of the rewarded when he was appointed to membership of Victorian Federated Clerks Union, which would the Environment Protection Council in 1970 and have normally predisposed people to follow another chairmanship of that body in 1973. Further party. Leo chose not to do so and beat the then recognition by the community of his skills and his member, Peter Randles, in an extremely vigorous contribution came with the awarding of an OBE in election for Brunswick East. 1974.

I can remember meeting Leo for the first time in the I express my condolences to his daughter, Carmel, office he had in his home in Brunswick. That was and his family. during the time before members had electorate offices, and that was where he dealt with a whole Motions agreed to in silence, honourable members range of constituents' problems. showing unanimous agreement by standing in their places. Leo was very involved in the Brunswick East branch of the party and provided great advice in 1970, after ADJOURNMENT he retired, when David Bornstein stood for that seat and roped me in as his campaign manager. Leo was Ms KIRNER (Premier) -I move: very useful with his advice then and has been useful with his advice since. He remained interested in That, as a further mark of respect to the memory of the what was occurring in Victoria after his retirement. late William John Lewis, Esquire, and the late Leo Michael Fennessy, Esquire, OBE, the House do now Honourable members made reference to his adjourn, until 4 p.m. this day. appointment to the Enviromnent Protection Council in 1970. He served that organisation with distinction Motion agreed to. both as a member and then as the chairman after 1973. He had a very strong commitment to House adjourned 2.53 p.m. environmental protection and during his time, particularly as chairman, he was instrumental in The SPEAKER took the chair at 4.5 p.m. changing the role of that council so that it provided advice not only to the Environment Protection ASSISTANT CLERK OF THE Authority but also to the Minister. LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Leo was very committed to ensuring that the various The SPEAKER - Order! Pursuant to the aspects of the environment such as air quality provisions of the Parliamentary Officers Act 1975 I standards, the State environment protection policy have nominated Mr Raymond William Purdey, the for Port Philip Bay and the environmental Serjeant-at-Arms, to be appointed to the position of THE MINISTRY

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 9

Assistant Clerk and Clerk of Committees. The Governor in Council has this day made the appointment in accordance with the said nomina tion. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE THE MINISTRY YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT Ms KIRNER (Premier) - Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House of the changes to responsibilities Mr KENNEIT (Leader of the Opposition) - I that will be undertaken by Ministers. direct a question without notice to the Premier. I refer to the comment of the Deputy Premier that Honourable members interjecting. when confidence is lost the damage caused is enormous. Given that youth unemployment -- The SPEAKER - Order! It is appropriate that the House start this sitting period in an orderly maruler Honourable members interjecting. so that it may enjoy the respect of the community. I ask honourable members on both sides of the House The SPEAKER - Order! I can understand the to remain silent. enthusiasm of honourable members on both sides of the House but the Leader of the OppOSition is Ms KIRNER - The Honourable Ian Baker will entitled to put his question in silence so that all be responsible for food and agriculture. The honourable members may hear it clearly. Honourable Steve Crabb will be responsible for tourism and water resources. The Honourable Jolm Mr KENNEIT - I will start again. I direct my Harrowfield will be responsible for finance and will question to the Premier. I refer to the comment of the assist the Minister for Labour with responsibility for Deputy Premier that when confidence is lost the WorkCare. damage caused is enormous, and I ask: given that youth wlemployment has more than doubled from For the information of honourable members I have 19.3 per cent to 46 per cent since the Premier provided a copy of a direction under the assumed that office, will she now accept Constitution Act which clarifies the division of responsibility for the continuint; loss of confidence responsibilities between the Minister for Labour and in Victoria and the damage being caused to our the Minister assisting him. Honourable members commwlity? should note in particular that the Honourable JOlul Harrowfield will answer questions in the House on Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I know the Leader of matters within his responsibility as Minister the Opposition has not been doing much over the assisting the Minister for Labour. He will also past few months but I should have thought he answer on behalf of the Minister for Small Business would have read a few new lines - they are exactly in another place. the lines he used in the last sessional period!

The Honourable Jim Kennan will answer on behalf As for taking responsibility for issues, I take of the Minister for Consumer Affairs and the responsibility for developing a very clear program Minister for Conservation and Environment in for the future of youth in this State. I have not heard another place. The Honourable Neil Pope will be a single word in policy terms from the Leader of the responsible for labour and for school education. The Opposition about what they would do for young Honourable Tom Roper will be responsible for people! employment, post-secondary education and training; Aboriginal affairs; and gaming. The It is important to address what is a major change in Honourable Kay Setches will continue to answer on the labour market for young people. The Federal behalf of the Minister for Ethnic, Municipal and government and this government are seriously Community Affairs and the Minister for Health in addreSSing those problems. I shall go through not another place. The Honourable Tony Sheehan will only the statistics but also the questions and answers be Treasurer and will continue to answer on behalf that are being provided by people in Australia and of the Minister for Manufacturing and Industry in Victoria who have the real interests of kids at Development and the Minister responsible for Ports heart and who do not want to just use them, as the in another place. Leader of the Opposition does, for political fodder. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

10 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992

I shall start with the review by Brian Finn, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition will get the Leader Chairman of mM Australia Ltd. The Finn review of the Opposition than it is that I will. He is after his carefully analyses the changes in opportunities for job; I am not. youth, and the necessary changes in training -- Honourable members interjecting. Mr Kennett interjected. The SPEAKER - Order! There are too many Ms KIRNER - The Leader of the Opposition interjections. laughs. I wonder whether he has read it. Have you read it? Have you read the Finn review? Ms KIRNER - In terms of a youth statement, firstly it is important to address the whole change in Mr Kennett interjected. culture, where we will be looking in the long term at a situation where we will have to develop a model The SPEAKER - Order! I ask honourable like the German model which has a balance and a members on both sides of the House to remain silent guarantee of higher education, training, or a mix of so the Premier's reply can be heard. I ask the work and training for young people. That is because Premier not to invite interjections, and I ask the the labour market is changing and the opportunities Leader of the Opposition not to respond by of the year 2000 will not be the same as those of the interjection. 19505 and the 196Os.

Ms KIRNER - You will notice that he uses the I shall be very pleased to see the opposition's same tactics as the Leader of the Opposition in the analysis of the real change in the future for youth Federal Parliament: he either interjects with his not only in Victoria but in Australia. We will fingers pointed or he turns his back. That is how provide that, and I challenge the opposition to do interested he is in the real questions! the same.

Honourable members interjecting. JOB CREATION

Ms KIRNER - The Finn review sets a new Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National direction for training. We have the emergence of the Party) - I address my question to the Minister for Deveson report, which will set new pathways to Employment, Post-Secondary Education and opportunities for young people in the training sector Training. I refer to the Treasurer's statement that and in schools. 80 000 jobs will be created by June 1993. Was the Minister consulted prior to that announcement? Did The Mayer report, which will also analyse those he agree with the target, and in what industries will opportunities, is coming; and most importantly, we those jobs be created? have Laurie Carmichael's recent statement about the future of the youth training and employment area. Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I thank That is where the debate ought to focus. It certainly the honourable member for his question, and I firstly can focus, as it will in part in my jobs statement­ point out to the honourable member that unlike the and we look forward to the Leader of the Leader of his coalition, with whom I understand he Opposition's attempt at a policy when we launch is not as friendly as he once was, as the Premier has our jo~ statement -- already said" we are concerned --

Mr Kennett interjected. Honourable members interjecting.

Ms KIRNER - Well you haven't got any, not a The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the honourable one. member for Malvern to remain silent. It is important that honourable members are able to hear the Mr Kennett interjected. Minister's reply.

Ms KIRNER - That's not much of an offer, you Mr ROPER - Unlike the other side of this would have to say. The Leader of the Opposition has Parliament, we are extremely concerned to respond just suggested I should come and get him. That is to the huge difficulties people currently face. Indeed, not much of an offer! It is much more likely that the as the Premier said, a number of significant QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 11 developments are occurring for training young Honourable members interjecting. people. Mr ROPER - He addressed a whole group of Mr McNamara - Were you consulted? people in the western suburbs, saying, "There is a great deal of hope for you all but I can't tell you Mr ROPER - I very much look forward, as I am what it is". It is about time the Leader of the sure do other members, to those occurring in the Opposition said what his policies are -- long term. Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National What is also important is that there is development Party) - On a point of order, Mr Speaker, and on a of new industry, of new jobs to replace the old jobs point of relevance, my question was quite specific. I that have been increasingly suffering from asked the Minister to advise Parliament whether he international competition, and the removal of agreed with the estimate made by the Treasurer, wmecessary protection. whether he was consulted by the Treasurer prior to his making the statement, and specifically to advise Mr McNamara interjected. Parliament where those jobs will be created. Until now we have had none of those details provided. I Mr ROPER - The Premier has armowlced a ask you, Mr Speaker, to get the Minister back to the series of cowlcils whose job it is to identify the point and make his answer relevant to the question. possibilities and the impediments -- Mr CRABB (Minister for Tourism) - On the Mr McNamara - Don't you know? point of order, Mr Speaker, I have been listening attentively to my colleague, who is absolutely The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the answering the question that was asked. National Party has asked his question. He may not ask further questions by interjection or repeat his Mr Kennett interjected. question by interjection. I ask him to remain silent. Mr CRABB -It takes one to know one. The Mr ROPER - Each of those councils will have a question is being answered not only relevantly but very important responsibility in ensuring the also competently. The fact that the opposition does creation of jobs in the new industries that are not like the answer does not mean it is irrelevant. In required in Victoria and the taking up of fact it almost guarantees that it is relevant. There is opportunities - not the knocking that the no point of order. opposition goes on with; the knocking when the honourable member for Benalla suddenly suggests The SPEAKER - Order! On the point of order, at the weekend that somehow jobs in his electorate the Minister's reply for the most part was within the that the government has worked hard to create will practices of the House. However it appeared to the in fact not be created. That is the kind of knocking Chair that in his latter remarks he was digressing that the honourable member goes on with! from the point of the question. I ask the Minister to relate his remarks to the question. Mr McNamara interjected. Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Mr ROPER - I certainly heard the Leader of the Post-Secondary Education and Training) - Mr National Party last weekend very bitterly knocking Speaker, I was digressing in that I was referring to jobs in his own area. By contrast, the Premier and the grand secret plan the Leader of the Opposition the government - and all members of the has that he will not tell us or anyone else about. The government - are concerned to ensure that those Premier has made it clear that detailed policies need new jobs are created. We do not hide the proposals to be put in place, the first aspects of which were we have. those armounced by the Prime Minister in his One Nation statement. I do not have the newspaper clipping here but I will provide the Leader of the National Party with a We will be able to achieve Significant job growth in copy. One of the suburban newspapers reported the Victoria by hard work, not by some grand, Leader of the Opposition as saying he has a grand mysterious plan that the Leader of the Opposition plan to fix youth unemployment but he will not tell has put forward but about which he has given us no anyone about it yet! information at all. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

12 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992

INVESTMENT IN VICTORIA Ms KIRNER - Your response was a joke. What did you say? Mr KENNEDY (Bendigo West) - In light of the announcement last year of the establishment of The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Premier to action teams to facilitate investment in Victoria, will address the Chair. the Premier advise the House of recent progress made in developing new industries and jobs in Ms KIRNER - What did the Leader of the Victoria? Opposition say when that armouncement was made by Mr Yabsley? What did he say? Ms KIRNER (Premier) - When it comes to getting investment going in Victoria the action teams I have not heard a thing; absolute silence! Mind you, have been extraordinarily successful. The first was the Leader of the OppOSition has been fairly silent obviously the one the honourable member for for the past three months; I know the honourable Benalla feels so strongly about. We went out with member for Benalla said the opposition parties the action team and got the Australian Defence might undermine the project, but what did they Industries (ADI) investment of $120 million for actually say about Mr Yabsley's comments? Not a Benalla. We went out and got the new Toyota word about taking him on and saying, ''Victoria manufacturing plant for Altona, which is quid pro needs this investment". No, not a word. quo, at $420 million, which is one of the biggest investments this State has ever seen. We went out Why was not a word said by the Leader of the and got the Kraft Foods Ltd investment of Opposition? Because the terms that Mr Yabsley is $101 million for Strathrnerton, which just shows how using to undermine investment in New South Wales good we are for the National Party! are exactly the same terms that the Leader of the OppOSition uses to undermine investment in The government will do what the opposition simply Victoria. The opposition is not prepared to do what talks about. We will add value to raw materials in we do, and that is to have policies for manufacturing the development of the Golden Aluminium rolling and industry development. mill at Bendigo, an investment of $310 million, which has been welcomed in a bipartisan way by all Where is its policy? Who is the shadow Minister for members in that area and worked for strongly, I Manufacturing and Industry Development? When must say, by the honourable member for Bendigo he was asked the other day at the Toyota plant what West. his policies were he said, '1 agree with the government"! It is clear that the action teams are getting results. It is interesting that the action teams are not simply It is very clear that through investment in Australian action teams in name as they are when the Leader of Defence Industries Pty Ltd, in the Toyota Motor the Opposition talks about them; they are action Corporation Australia Ltd and in Kraft Foods Ltd teams in practice our objectives for creating new investment are starting to happen, and a slight growth in the e. Firstly, they advocate for the industry; secondly, economy shown in the figures today - and it is only they facilitate the industry; and, thirdly, they put in a slight growth - will be added to by the One the investment in appropriate places where it is Nation statement of Mr Keating and by our jobs needed. statement, and I look forward, just for a change, to the Leader of the Opposition adding to confidence in Honourable members should know that with the Victoria by his statement. ADI investment all these things happened. In addition, the government is prepared to put in a JOB CREATION strategic investment of $3 million for infrastructure that will greatly assist that development. The only Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - I refer the Treasurer to opposition to the ADI investment seems to be his statement in January that an extra 80 000 jobs coming from the yabberer in New South Wales, Mr would be created by 30 June next year and I ask: is it Yabsley, when he made his statement-- not a fact that 25 200 jobs have been lost in Victoria since he made that statement? Mr Kennett interjected. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - It is very interesting that even a spokesperson for the QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 13 opposition, Des Moore from the Institute of Public As a result of its efforts the government has secured Affairs, has supported my estimate that we will be a substantial change in the economic direction of the able to create some 80 000 jobs by mid-1993. Federal government as well as a commitment to create 800 000 jobs over three years. That That estimate has been based on a number of commitment is consistent with this government's considerations and it has been supported by Mr commitment to create 80 000 jobs by June 1993. Keating's One Nation statement. It is interesting to note that the opposition has not been able to say one The target of 80 000 jobs is supported by an analysis constructive thing about employment; there has done by the National Institute of Economic and been not one policy consideration - not one. Industry Research of the Keating statement and its impact on Victoria in the time concerned. As a result The Leader of the Opposition is the invisible Leader of securing that change in economic direction -- of an invisible team. Not one contribution has been made to this discussion! The government has Mr Gude interjected. secured a significant change in the direction of Federal govenunent policy. In putting our case to Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - It is interesting that the the Federal govenunent we argued that it should opposition has been unable to contribute to the integrate the objectives of dealing with debate; there is not one word or commitment on unemployment, on the one hand, and securing record. Why? Because you want unemployment to sustainable growth in the tradeable goods sector on grow! the other hand. We argued that we could integrate those objectives and solve the problems of Honourable members interjecting. unemployment in Australia, not just in Victoria. The SPEAKER - Order! I advise the Treasurer In response the Federal government has given the that he should address the Chair and ignore conunitment of creating 800 000 jobs over the interjections. coming three years. That figure sits very well with our own target of 80 000 jobs by mid-1993. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - Members of the opposition have been unable to contribute one idea. Mr Leigh interjected. What is more, they actively undermine confidence in the Victorian economy and take great comfort in Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - You are one of the people every lost opportunity and every person who is who will be without one, so don't worry about that! unemployed. In contrast, the government is putting forward clear policies to address the problems. Honourable members interjecting. As I was saying, the target of 80 000 jobs is The SPEAKER - Order! The Deputy Leader of supported by the analysis by the National Institute the Opposition asked his question and should now of Economic and Industry Research of the impact on allow the Treasurer to reply without interruption. Victoria of the Keating statement. In addition the Similarly, I ask the Leader of the Opposition to Premier will make a statement to facilitate the respect the forms of the House and remain silent. Keating package in Victoria and it will add to the target. I am prepared to make a commitment that Honourable members interjecting. the target of 80 000 jobs is securable.

Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - Talking about poverty, Honourable members interjecting. there is poverty of ideas on the opposition side of the House. What is the Deputy Leader of the The SPEAKER - Order! It is becoming Opposition? The opposition spokesperson on impossible to hear the Treasurer and I again ask the lunches! Members of the opposition spend every Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Leader of day of the week at breakfasts, lunches and dinners. the Opposition to cease interjecting. If necessary, I What a contribution to policy debate in Victoria! A shall take the appropriate action. top performance, Jeffrey! Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - The Premier's statement I shall return to the issue at hand, which is jobs and in response to the Prime Minister's One Nation the attention this government is paying to securing package will outline further job opportunities for better futures and more opportunities for Victorians. Victoria. Every time the Victorian government takes QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

14 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992 an initiative to create jobs - for example, the opposition leader, I don't like being opposition leader accelerated infrastructure program that produced either. more than 5000 jobs - there is opposition from across the floor because members of the opposition People do not like it much! People out there want to are unable and unwilling to contribute to the policy get on with business. They do not like the Leader of debate. If one searches the public record for the Opposition or the shadow Minister for Major opposition commitments to unemployment, one Projects holding the pOSitions they hold because all finds not one target and not one policy to support a they do is undennine confidence in this State and target. knock, knock, knock. It does not matter whether it is the museum, the National Tennis Centre or the There is a complete policy vacuum in the opposition. World Congress Centre; the opposition does not like How can members of the opposition criticise the it. It does not like the Great Southern Stand because government for setting targets by which it is it is an embarrassment to the opposition. Next week, prepared to be judged when the opposition presents and probably the week after, 90 000 people will be the public with a complete policy vacuum? there. The opposition does not like it because it is a failure for it and a success for Melbourne and MUSEUM OF VICTORIA Victoria.

Mr FORD HAM (Footscray) - I ask the Minister The museum project will cost $150 million to for Major Projects to advise the House of the $200 million and the first sod will be turned on progress of the Museum of Victoria's eagerly Friday when the Premier visits the site. Work has awaited Southbank building. already started with a $2 million contract for pilings having been let. That work will continue for a couple Mr KENNAN (Minister for Major Projects) - I of months or more and will employ a considerable thank the honourable member for his question and number of people. for his ongoing interest in major projects in Victoria, which is in marked contrast to the opposition, which In addition, we will invite the private sector to make has knocked the Southbank project and threatened a contribution to the project. We have been through its existence. Rather than welcoming this major an expressions of interest process and we have had construction, which is going ahead, the shadow substantial private sector interest in the spokesman for knocking major projects in another development of the new museum. It will be a great place has threatened to stop it - should the unlikely museum; and in the next few months we will be event occur that he is in a position to do so! He has letting further contracts because, in accordance with refused to give a commitment to keep the project the Premier's June economic statement, there will be going, just as the opposition would not support the a continuation of the building of the Southbank National Tennis Centre or the building of the Great museum. Southern Stand at the Melbourne Cricket Ground. Then we will have the opening of the new The opposition knocks every major infrastructure Scienceworks museum at Spotswood, which is project in Victoria. Had the opposition been in office another project the opposition would prefer not to during the past ten years, projects such as the have occurred. It does not want to see success. The National Tennis Centre and the World Congress Leader of the Opposition hides in a dark corner and Centre would not have been built. Sydney or is never brought into the light. If he reads a good Brisbane would have hosted the Australian Open news story he probably averts his eyes and flicks the tennis championship every year and the Princess page to look for a bad news story! Theatre would not have been renovated. The museum project also involves the rebuilding of The opposition knocks such projects because, as the the State Library. Anybody walking along Swans ton Treasurer said, it does not want to see anything or Russell streets will see that work on the library succeed. It wants to undennine progress and infill building, particularly in the Latrobe Street area, confidence. The reason, as the Leader of the has been successfully taking place. We are Opposition was quoted recently as saying, is: continuing so that, with the building of the new museum at Southbank, we will have not only a I mean we spend every day of the week at breakfasts, at wonderful natural history museum at Southbank lunches, at dinners '" I don't think they like me being and a great new science museum at Spotswood but a refurbished library, taking up the whole of that great QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 15

old building that previously housed the gallery, the The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Minister to library and the museum; and it, with the infill relate his remarks to the question, which concerned buildings, will house the whole of the library. the agreement of the relevant utilities to reported proposals concerning debt management. DEBT MANAGEMENT Mr A. J. SHEEHAN -It is important in Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I address a responding to this question that we contrast the further question to the Treasurer. I refer to his policy commitment of the government to the policy leaked proposal to rearrange debt management and commitment of the opposition. assume the debt of government authorities and I ask: does the Treasurer have the agreement of the Mr Plowman interjected. Gas and Fuel Corporation, the State Electricity Commission and Melbourne Water to proceed with The SPEAKER - Order! I caution the this proposal and will the Treasurer assure the honourable member for Evelyn. I ask him to heed House that any additional commitments on interest the authority of the Chair and to remain silent. to be met from the Victorian Budget will not be deferred as part of this arrangement? Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - This is one of the most significant issues confronting the management of the Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - The assurance Victorian economy. It is important that there be an I shall give the House is that we are developing a informed public debate about the level of debt and package that will provide for two things: one is the management of debt. It is important that both substantial reform of the government trading parties clearly spell out their policies and their enterprises; the second is a Significant reduction in objectives and, what is more, be prepared to be State debt. Those two basic elements of the package judged on those policies. will provide a foundation for the future of Victoria. Mr Leigh interjected. I should again like to contrast this clear and substantial policy position to that of the opposition. The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the honourable For example, recently the opposition spokesperson member for Malvern, who continued interjecting said it would take him two years to make any immediately after I cautioned him. I shall not warn substantial inroads into the total level of State debt. him again. I am quite prepared to take the That is the opposition spokesperson. We then have appropriate action. the invisible man, the Leader of the Opposition, saying at a recent luncheon that he will take $8 Mr A. J. SHEEHAN -It is important at a time billion off the debt in eight years, $1 billion a year. when we are confronting issues of this dimension That is an immediate conflict, and an immediate that the participants in the debate spell out clearly difference of opinion. their policies and their objectives and are prepared to be judged against them. What is more, there was absolutely no detail of how the opposition would achieve the $8 billion Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - Mr Speaker, the reduction. We learnt that this commitment of an $8 point of order I raise is that of relevance. You have billion reduction over eight years emerged from a already directed the Treasurer's attention to the fact shadow Cabinet meeting of the invisible team, and that the question asked whether the authorities had one can imagine the discussion. The invisible man agreed to the arrangement he proposed and whether puts on the table his plans to turn back the rivers he will give the assurance that no interest will be and to feed the rest of the world from central deferred. The Treasurer has not said a word about Australia. either of those matters, and I ask you to direct him back to the question. Mr Kennan - Did he put a time frame on that promise? The SPEAKER - Order! I do not uphold the point of order. The Treasurer appeared to be placing Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - I think he will do that a the matter in context. However it is important that little quicker than the eight years for the debt he relate his remarks to the question asked. I ask reduction because it is that much easier, Jeffrey! The him, in view of the time for which he has been shadow Cabinet meeting goes on. answering, to round off his reply. . QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

16 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992

Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - In putting opportunities for Victoria have resulted from his these two issues in context it is very important that recent trade mission to Japan, Korea and Taiwan? both parties make their positions very clear. It is not satisfactory for one party to set a target of $8 billion Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and and be completely unable to explain how it will Agriculture) - I thank the honourable member for reach that target. What we will spell out in great his question and for his abiding and ongOing interest detail over the coming weeks is precisely how we in trade in the Oceania region. It was a most useful will achieve reform of the government trading trip. enterprises and make a very Significant reduction in State debt. Without being immodest, in the language of my electorate bringing home conservatively $1.3 billion GOVERNMENT ASSET SALES worth of orders in the order book, together with sundry other investment proposals, is a big get. The Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National Parliament and the people of Victoria will see over Party) - I refer the Minister for Finance to both the the next few months, as the people with whom I Premier's recent statement that the proceeds from have done these deals come here, the roll-out the sale of nine central city properties will be used to consequences of this and the employment retire debt and the Minister's statement that the opportwlities that this will generate for both the proceeds will not be used to payoff State debt but regional and city economies in the food processing for new capital works. I ask the Minister: which and food manufacturing sectors, for which I now statement is correct? have portfolio responsibility.

Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - I The elements of those deals are, in the first instance, thank the honourable member for his question and a $1 billion order over five years with the Nicherei for raising the issue of the asset sales proposal, Trading Company and Asakuna Meats organised in which is very important in terms of debt because part through government contacts with KPMG Peat replacing assets that are not required by government Marwick Hungerfords, as they are now known, who with new assets enables us to avoid the need to will be helping the government put the orders borrow and therefore avoid the need to create together. Those are two of the most reputable further debt. It is also important because it enables trading companies and operators in the Asian the government to provide important new business scene. infrastructure for the developing areas of the State. There are just a few others. There will be a It is interesting to note that the opposition is $12 million fishing plant for North Laverton on the opposing these efforts to provide new facilities in fringe of my electorate and your electorate, Mr those areas of the State where there is population Speaker. Construction will begin within a month. growth. There is not one member of the opposition who does not regularly ask a Minister for a new There will be a $300 000 wine order to get Brown health centre or a new capital asset of some kind or Brothers -- another. Honourable members interjecting. The government will replace the central business district properties with new assets that will meet the Mr BAKER - The deals are done. You don't like needs of those developing communities. Therefore I it, do you? The deals are done for Brown Brothers repeat that the proposal serves two purposes: it into Korea, and there is a 1700-tonne sheep meat avoids the need to borrow extra funds and therefore order for Taiwan, which I happened to pick up off create additional debt and it enables the government the book. to provide facilities and capital assets that the community needs. The question needs to be asked - and there are others - 'What have they been doing, the knockers AGRICULTURE MINISTER'S TRADE over there, the morgue?" Come on, bring out your MISSION dead! Look at them all, they look like a morgue. What do they do? Bring out the dead! They do Mr MICALLEF (Springvale) - Will the Minister nothing, say nothing - absolutely hopeless! I have for Food and Agriculture advise the House what not heard of the Leader of the Opposition except after the trots on 3UW. Some people say that the PETITIONS

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 17 trots come after he speaks so they sent down a PETITIONS no-policy Leader to ask me -- The Clerk - I have received the following The SPEAKER -Order! I ask the Minister to petitions for presentation to Parliament: return to the question. Companion Animals Bill Mr BAKER - They sent him down to talk about food policy areas and investment opportunities. To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the They sent him to a no-policy party conference on Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: 17 November and what did he do? They took off the muzzle and the lead and away he went. He said, The humble petition of the undersigned sheweth that '''The food bowl of Asia". the Companion Animals Act currently before the Parliament of Victoria is unacceptable in its present The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Minister to form. confine his remarks to the question and to keep his remarks relevant to the question. The legislation will not solve the problems of straying, fouling and excessive and irresponsible breeding of Mr BAKER - He said, ''The food bowl of Asia". companion animals. The legislation is unacceptable. Unlike us, he gave a pledge. That was the day he also went off on the rivers being turned around and Further consultation with the public and interested running inwards to create a food bowl. They took groups is required before any legislation is enacted. the muzzle off and so he ripped off into fifth-rate advertising hyperbole, as he usually does. Rip and Your petitioners therefore pray that this House will read; give them anything you like -- defer the legislation pending consultation and review with interested groups. The SPEAKER - Order! I have already asked the Minister to make his remarks relevant. If he is And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. unable to do so, I shall not hear him further. I ask the Minister to round off his reply. By Mrs Ray (789 signatures), Mr Cooper (17 signatures), Mr Mathews (50 signatures) and Mr BAKER - The point I am making is that this Mr I. W. Smith (43 signatures) government has been prepared to go there and it has been prepared to bring home some deals. It has been In-vitro fertilisation prepared to negotiate over a series of 30 to 40 meetings over ten days with some of the top To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the executives of the biggest companies in Asia, and we Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: have brought home the deals. The Leader of the Opposition - and this is my point - said he was The petition of the undersigned shows: the human gOing; he said he had been talking to ten exporters embryo deserves legal protection from experimentation and, as usual, he dirt not play on in time-on; he has which destroys or is harmful to the embryo. not fronted; he has not proceeded; and, unfortunately, he I>~ver will. Your petitioners request that the Legislative Assembly, in Parliament assembled, should legislate to prohibit: Honourable members interjecting. (a) harmful and destructive experimentation on human life created by in-vitro fertilisation; and Mr BAKER - Certainly the community, the people of Victoria, should realise he is like a farm (b) any action to separate a human embryo into parts dog with rickets: he really should be put out of his which have potential to develop as cloned human misery. I understand that is about to happen, in the beings. next two weeks! And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. The SPEAKER -Order! The latter part of the reply was out of order. The time for questions without notice has expired. PETITIONS

18 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992

By Mr Perrin (27 signatures> justice, provide for consumer input into the setting of fees for professional legal services and conduct an Fairfield Hospital independent review of the Solicitors Guarantee Fund.

To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: By Mr Hayward (103 signatures) The humble petition of friends and supporters of Fairfield Hospital respectfully requests that this North West Country Credit Union Co-op­ hospital of nearly 100 years experience in infectious erahve Ltd diseases be recognised as a major public asset, and not closed or dispersed but rather seen as a site and base To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the for further development in treatment, research and Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: education on infectious diseases. The humble petition of citizens of Victoria sheweth: Your petitioners therefore humbly pray that the We the undersigned citizens request an urgent open Parliament take immediate action to ensure that investigation into the financial operations of North Fairfield Hospital is maintained in its expertise on its West Country Credit Union Co-operative Ltd. present site and further developed in the future. Your petitioners therefore pray that: And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. 1. Management practices, members' rights, interest rates (advertised and actual), valuations, mortgages By Mr Pope (40 signatures) and seizures of members' properties; Maternal and child health services 2. The valuations, seizures and disposal of members' properties during the past two years with particular To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the reference to the circumstances surrounding the Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: Kerang Environmental Study Centre at Appin, via Kerang, as officially opened by the Honourable Joan The humble petition of the citizens of the State of Kirner, MLC, Minister for Conservation, Forests and Victoria respectfully sheweth that: any funding cuts to Lands, on 9 September 1988; maternal and child health services will seriously 3. The suitability of controls exercised by the compromise the health and welfare of all young Corporate Affairs Office Victoria through the Register families in this State. of Credit Unions, be investigated and that the necessary remedial action be taken. Your petitioners therefore humbly pray that their rights will be recognised and protected. And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray.

And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. By Mr Dickinson (238 signatures>

By Mr I. W. Smith (623 signatures) Melbourne Water - rate increase

Justice system To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: We the undersigned ratepayers of the Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works call on the Kimer Labor The humble petition of the undersigned citizens of the government to hold a review into the efficiency and State of Victoria sheweth the denial of people's access effectiveness of the Board of Works as a means of to the justice system in Victoria as the result of the high substantiating the significant annual increases in their costs of justice and the recent drastic reduction in legal rates. aid services. Further, we call for a moratorium on rate increases Your petitioners therefore pray that you address this until that review has delivered its recommendations appalling situation by acting urgently to: stop cuts to and the government has publicly announced its the legal aid guidelines, reduce the prohibitive costs of decision on those recommendations. ADMINISTRA TIVE ARRANGEMENTS

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 19

And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. Communication from the Minister for Labour of the reasons for the delay in tabling the following audited By Mr Coleman (22 signatures) reports for the quarter ended 30 December 1991: Accident Compensation Commission Laid on table. Victorian Accident Rehabilitation Council ADMINISTRATIVE ARRANGEMENTS WorkCare Appeals Board Ms KIRNER (Premier) presented Administrative Medical Panels Arrangements Orders Nos 98 to 102. Agricultural Industry Development Act 1990- Northern Victorian Fresh Tomato Industry Laid on table. Development Order VICTORIAN FAMILY AND CHILDREN'S SERVICES COUNCIL Agriculture Department - Report for the year 1990-91 Alexandra District Hospital - Report for the year Mrs SETCHES (Minister for Community Services) 1990-91 presented report of the Victorian Family and Children's Services Council for 1990-91. Alfred Group of Hospitals - Report for the year 1990-91 Laid on table.

WORKCARE Anne Caudle Centre - Report for the year 1990-91 Bethlehem Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 The SPEAKER presented reports of: Ballarat Base Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Accident Compensation Tribunal for quarter ended 30 September 1991; Benalla and District Memorial Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Accident Compensation Commission, Victorian Accident Rehabilitation Council, WorkCare Bendigo and Northern District Base Hospital - Report Appeals Board, and Medical Panels for the for the year 1990-91 quarter ended 30 December 1991; 800rt District Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 given to the Speaker pursuant to the Accident Compensation Act 1985. Bright District Hospital-Report for the year 1990-91 Laid on table. Bundoora Extended Care Centre - Report for the year BLF CUSTODIAN 1990-91 Camperdown District Hospital - Report for the year The SPEAKER presented seventeenth and 1990-91 eighteenth reports given to the Speaker pursuant to section 7A of BLF (De-recognition) Act 1985 by Cobram District Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 the Custodian appointed under section 7(1) of that Act. Cohuna District Hospital and Cohuna Community Nursing Home - Report for the year 1990-91 Laid on table. Coleraine and District Hospital - Report for the year Ordered to be printed. 1990-91 PAPERS Constitution Act Amendment Act 1958 -Statement of a function conferred on the Electoral Commissioner, Laid on table by Clerk: 17 December 1991

Accident Compensation Act 1985 - PAPERS

20 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992

Corryong District Hospital - Report for the year Mansfield District Hospital and Bentley Nursing Home 1990-91 - Report for the year 1990-91

Daylesford District Hospital - Report for the year Melbourne and Metropolitan Board of Works 1990-91 Employees' Superannuation Fund - Report for the year 1990-91 Deakin University - Report for the year 1990 Melbourne University - Report for the year 1989; Dental Board of Victoria - Report for the year ending together with Statutes approved by the Governor in 30 September 1991 Council

Dunolly District Hospital-Report for the year 1990-91 Mildura Base Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91

Elmore District Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91 Mordialloc Cheltenham Community Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Fairfield Hospital-Report for the year 1990-91 Myrtleford District War Memorial Hospital and Flora and Fauna Guarantee Act 1988 -Order in Extended Care Accommodation Centre - Report for Council adding items to Schedules 2 and 3 of Act the year 1990-91

Footscray Institute of Technology - Report for the year National Crime Authority - Report for the year 1989 1990-91; together with comments made by the Inter-Goverrunental Committee Glenview Community Care Inc. - Report for the year 1990-91 National Parks Act 1975 -Order in Council adding land to Schedule Four together with a copy of relevant Heathcote District Hospital - Report for the year plan 1990-91 North West Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Inglewood District Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Nurmurkah and District War Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Kaniva and District Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 O'Connell Family Centre (Grey Sisters) Inc. - Report for the year 1990-91 Kerang and District Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Ouyen District War Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91 Kilmore and District Hospital and Nursing Home - Report for the year 1990-91 Ovens and Murray Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Korumburra District Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Ovens District Hospital for the Aged - Report for the year 1990-91 Knox and Sherbrooke Community Hospital-Report for the year 1990-91 Parliamentary Committees Act 1968 - Report of the Attorney-General with respect to the recommendations Latrobe Valley Hospital-Report for the year 1990-91 made by the Legal and Constitutional Committee's Report on Privacy and Breach of Confidence Lismore and District Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Planning and Envirorunent Act 1987 -Notices of approval of amendments to the following Planning Manangatang and District Hospital - Report for the Schemes: year 1990-91 All Planning Schemes -Nos 517, 518 Part 1

Alexandra Planning Scheme - Nos L21, L22 PAPERS

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 21

AItona Planning Scheme - No. LIl Flinders Planning Scheme - Nos L56, LS9, L62, L72, L84,L91,L93 Ararat (Shire) Planning Scheme - No. L4 Footscray Planning Scheme - Nos LI7, L29 Bacchus Marsh Planning Scheme -Nos LI2 Part IB, L25 Part I, L29 Part I, L30 Frankston Planning Scheme - Nos L29, L30, L35 Baimsdale (Shire) Planning Scheme - Nos L21 Part 1 Geelong Regional Planning Scheme - Nos R5 Part 3, R73 Part 2, R74 Part IB, R78, RBO Part I, R81, RL72 Ballaarat City Planning Scheme - Nos L23, L26 Part 2, RL83, RL 84 Part I, R86, R88 Ballarat (Shire) Planning Scheme - No. L26 Grenville Planning Scheme - No. L7 Beechworth Planning Scheme - No. LIS Hawthorn Planning Scheme - Nos LIS, RLI37 Benalla (Shire) Planning Scheme - Nos L7, LIO Healesville Planning Scheme - No. L22 Bendigo Planning Scheme - No. L6 Part 2 Heidelberg Planning Scheme - Nos L6, RI02 Berwick Planning Scheme -Nos L39 Part lA, L41 Heywood Planning Scheme - No. L3 Part 1 Huntly Planning Scheme - No. L27 Box Hill Planning Scheme - No. LI3 Lowan Planning Scheme - No. L2 Bright Planning Scheme - Nos L20, L21, L22 Keilor Planning Scheme - Nos L24, L32, L35, L39, Broadmeadows Planning Scheme - Nos L25, L28, L41,L42 R102 Kew Planning Scheme -No. LI4 Brunswick Planning Scheme - No. RI02 Kilmore Planning Scheme - Nos L45, LSD Bulla Planning Scheme -Nos L20, L35, L46 Part 1, L56 Kilmore Planning Scheme - No. L47 Buln Buln Planning Scheme - Nos LI4, LI7, LI9, Korumburra Planning Scheme - No. L7 L20,L21 Knox Planning Scheme - Nos L28, L34, L35, L36, Buninyong Planning Scheme - Nos L36, L38 L39,L41,L42 Camberwell Planning Scheme - No. L22 Kyabram Planning Scheme - No. L7 Castlemaine Planning Scheme - No. L6 Lillydale Planning Scheme - Nos L38, L87, L89 Part lA, L95, L99 Cobram Planning Scheme - No. L12 Mansfield Planning Scheme - No. LI1 Coburg Planning Scheme - Nos L14, L25, R102 Marong Planning Scheme - No. LI8 Collingwood Planning Scheme - No. R102 Maryborough Planning Scheme - No. L12 Cranboume Planning Scheme - No. L61 Mclvor Planning Scheme - No. LI3 Croydon Planning Scheme - Nos L25, L32, L42 Melbourne Planning Scheme - Nos LS7, L70, L75, Dandenong Planning Scheme - No. L12 L82,L83,L86,L87,L88,L89 Deakin Planning Scheme - No. LS Part 2 MeIton Planning Scheme - No. RL75 Diamond Valley Planning Scheme - No. LI4 Metropolitan Region Planning Scheme - Nos RIlO, Dimboola Planning Scheme - No. LS RLI40 Doncaster and Templestowe Planning Scheme - Nos Mildura (City) Planning Scheme - Nos LS, L27, L28, L29 Part 2, 1..35 Part I, L37 Part I, L43, L45 L30 Eaglehawk Planning Scheme - No. L8 Mildura (Shire) Planning Scheme - No. L23 Echuca Planning Scheme - Nos L3, L12A Mirboo Planning Scheme - No. L8 Euroa Planning Scheme - No. L4 Moorabbin Planning Scheme - No. LIO Fitzroy Planning Scheme - No. LI4 Mornington Planning Scheme - Nos L30, 1..35, L36 Northcote Planning Scheme - No. RI02 PAPERS

22 ASSEMBLY Tuesday. 17 March 1992

Nunawading Planning Scheme - Nos UO, 1.32 Waverley Planning Scheme - Nos Ul, L24, L25 OakJeigh Planning Scheme - Nos Ll2, Ll9, L22 Werribee Planning Scheme - Nos 1.33, 1.37, R102 Otway Planning Scheme -Nos Ll6, Ll7 Whittlesea Planning Scheme - Nos 1.38, L46, 1.51, L6O, L61, RI02 Pakenham Planning Scheme - Nos Ul Part 1, 1.35, LSO, 1.51, L56, L60, L61 Part 1 Williamstown Planning Scheme - No. L6 Phillip Island Planning Scheme - No. L28 Wimmera Planning Scheme - No. L6 Portland City Planning Scheme - No. 1.32 Wodonga Planning Scheme - Nos L9, L21, L27 Prahran Planning Scheme - No. L21 Wonthaggi Planning Scheme -Nos L7, L9, Lll Preston Planning Scheme - Nos 1.32, L34, R102 Woorayl Planning Scheme - No. L45 Richmond Planning Scheme - Nos Ll3, Ll5, L23, L24 Portland and District Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Rodney Planning Scheme - Nos L2, 1.37, L41, L44, L45 Queen Elizabeth Geriatric Centre - Report for the year Romsey Planning Scheme - No. L21 1990-91 Rutherglen Planning Scheme - Nos 1.3, L4 Ripon Peace Memorial Hospital, Beaufort - Report for Sandringham Planning Scheme -Nos L6 Part 2, L7, the year 1990-91 L8 Robinvale and District Hospital and Nursing Home - Sebastopol Planning Scheme - No. L4 Report for the year 1990-91 Shepparton City Planning Scheme - Nos L30, 1.37, L40,L41 Royal Children's Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91 Shepparton Shire Planning Scheme - Nos L6, L22, L33,L35,L42 Royal Women's Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91 Sherbrooke Planning Scheme - Nos Ll7 Part 2, L45, L47,L62 Shelley Memorial Hospital, Bunyip - Report for the year 1990-91 South Melbourne Planning Scheme - No. 1.39 Springvale Planning Scheme - Nos L23, 1.32 Skip ton and District Memorial Hospital - Report for the year 1990-91 Stawell (Town) Planning Scheme - No. Ll7 St Kilda Planning Scheme - Nos Lll, Ll2 State Electricity Commission Superannuation Fund - Report for the year 1990-91 Strathfieldsaye Planning Scheme - No. L8 Sunshine Planning Scheme - Nos L23, L27, 1.32, 1.37, Statutory Rules under the following Acts: 1.38, 1.39, RI02 Agricultural Industry Development Act 1990 - SR Tambo Planning Scheme - No. L47 No. 247/1991 Traralgon (City) Planning Scheme - Nos 1.32, 1.35, Architects Act 1991-SR Nos 288, 338/1991 1.37,1.39 Associations Incorporation Act 1981-SR No. Tullaroop Planning Scheme - Nos Ll, 1.3 298/1991 Upper Yarra Planning Scheme - Nos L20, L21 Boilers and Pressure Vessels Act 1970 -SR Nos 282, 283/1991 Upper Yarra Valley and Dandenong Ranges Region Planning Scheme - No. RIO Building Control Act 1981-SR No. 260/1991 Wangaratta (City) Planning Scheme - No. LlS Business Names Act 1962 -SR No. 297/1991 Wangaratta (Shire) Planning Scheme - No. 1.3 Children and Young Persons Act 1989 -SR Nos 303/1991,4/1992 Waranga Planning Scheme - No. llD Warmambool City Planning Scheme - Nos L9, Ll8 PAPERS

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 23

Chiropractors and Osteopaths Act 1978 -SR No. Metropolitan Fire Brigades Act 1958 -SR No. 316/1991 323/1991 Conservation, Forests and Lands Act 1987 -SR Nos National Parks Act 1975 -SR No. 268/1991 262,304/1991 Optometrists Registration Act 1958 - SR No. Control of Weapons Act 1990 -SR No. 325/1991 317/1991 Country Fire Authority Act 1958 -SR No. 324/1991 Petroleum Act 1958 -SR No. 319/1991 County Court Act 1958 -SR Nos 292, 293/1991 Pharmacists Act 1974 - SR No. 314/1991 Dangerous Goods Act 1985 -SR Nos 277, 278, Physiotherapists Act 1978 -SR No. 255/1991 279/1991 Pipelines Act 1967 -SR No. 320/1991 Dental Technicians Act 1972 -SR No. 254/1991 Planning and Environment Act 1987 - SR No. Dentists Act 1972 -SR No. 250/1991 275/1991 Drugs, Poisons and Controlled Substances Act 1981 Police Regulation Act 1958 -SR No. 322/1991 -SRNo.252/1991 Pollution of Waters by Oil and Noxious Substances Environment Protection Act 1970 -SR No. 267/1991 Act 1986 -SR No. 16/1992 Evidence Act 1958 -SR No. 1/1992 Port of Melbourne Authority Act 1958 - SR No. 261/1991 Extractive Industries Act 1966 -SR No. 318/1991 Professional Boxing Control Act 1985 -SR Nos Firearms Act 1958 -SR No. 321/1991 258/1991,13,21/1992 Fisheries Act 1968 - SR Nos 262, 290/1991 Property Law Act 1958 -SR No. 302/1991 Food Act 1984 -SR No. 257/1991 Psychological Practices Act 1965 -SR No. 312/1991 Gaming Machine Control Act 1991-SR Nos 263, Public Records Act 1973 -SR No. 248/1991 264,308,309,310/1991,5,6,18/1992 Public Service Act 1974 - Public Service Health Act 1958 -SR Nos 251, 253, 256, 313, 315/1991 Determinations Nos 41-45/1991,1-4/1992; and Public Health Services Act 1988 -SR Nos 19, 20/1992 Service Declaration No. 6 Historic Buildings Act 1981 -SR No. 265/1991 Racing Act 1958 -SR Nos 272,329, 331, 332-337/1991,22/1992 Hospitals Superannuation Act 1988 - SR No. 11/ 19Y2 Religious Successory and Charitable Trusts Act 1958 Instruments Act 1958 -SR No. 300/1991 -SR No. 299/1991 Juries Act 1967 -SR Nos 294, 296/1991, 2/1992 Residential Tenancies Act 1980 - SR No. 17/1992 Land Act 1958 -SR No. 306/1991 Road Safety Act 1986 - SR Nos 326,327/1991, Land Tax Act 1958 -SR Nos 328/1991,23,24/1992 10/1992 Legal Profession Practice Act 1958 -SR Nos Scaffolding Act 1971 -SR Nos 285, 286, 287/1991 274/1991,3/1992 Sport and Recreation Act 1972 - SR No. 12/1992 Lifts and Cranes Act 1967 - SR Nos 280, 281, Stamps Act 1958 -SR No. 259/1991 284/1991 State Electricity Commission Act 1958 - SR No. Local Government Act 1958 -SR No. 7/1992 270/1991 together with the following documents as Local Government Act 1989 -SR No. 7/1992 required by section 32 of the Interpretation of Legislation Act 1984: Lotteries Gaming and Betting Act 1966 -SR Nos 271, 330/1991 Code of Practice for Tree Clearing 1992 Magistrates' Court Act 1989 -SR Nos 266, 289, AS 3560 -1991 - Electric Cables, XLPE Insulated, 291/1991 Aerial bundled Martial Arts Control Act 1986 -SR No. 14/1992 AS 3599.1 -1988 - Electric Cables, Aerial bundled, Polymeric Insulated Part 1 Medical Practitioners Act 1970 -SR No. 249/1991 PAPERS

24 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992

AS 3599.2 -1991 - Electric Cables, Aerial bundled, Administrative Appeals Tribunal (Planning) Act 1991 Polymeric Insulated Part 2 - Whole Act; 8 January 1992 (Gazette No. G1, 8 January 1992) SECV Vegetation Management Manual Supreme Court Act 1986 -SR Nos 273, 294, 295, Albury-Wodonga Agreement (Amendment) 1991- 339/1991 Whole Act; 17 February 1992 (Gazette No. G6, 12 February 1992) Tobacco Act 1987 -SR No. 311/1991 Transfer of Land Act 1958 -SR No. 301/1991 Building, Co-operative Housing and Friendly Societies (Amendment) Act 1990 -Sections 1, 2,11-13,16-19; 18 Travel Agents Act 1986 -SR No. 276/1991 December 1991 (Gazette No. G49, 18 December 1991) Valuation of Land Act 1960 -SR Nos 307/1991, 8/1992 Burrumbeet Land Act 1991-Whole Act; 12 February 1992 (Gazette No. G6, 12 February 1992) Water Act 1989 -SR No. 269/1991 Wildlife Act 1975 -SR Nos 305/1991, 9/1992 Co-operation (Credit Co-operatives) Act 1991 - Sections 1-5 and 7; 1 January 1992 (Gazette No. G49, 18 Tweddle Child and Family Health Service - Report for December 1991) the year 1990-1991 Courts (Amendment) Act 1990 -Section 14; 18 Victoria College - Report for the year 1990 November 1991 (Gazette No. G44, 13 November 1991) Victoria Grants Commission Act 1976 - Notice of Crimes (Rape) Act 1991-Sections 1-4,6,9 and 10; 1 making a Ministerial Submission to the Commission of January 1992 (Gazette No. G49, 18 December 1991); special significance in relation to the Shire of Tambo Section 5; 1 February 1992 (Gazette No. G3, 22 January 1992) Warracknabeal District Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91 Crimes (Sexual Offences) Act 1991 - Section 11 (lA); 1 February 1992 (Gazette No. G3, 22 January 1992) Werribee District Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91 Disability Services Act 1991-Whole Act; 19 December 1991 (Gazette No. G49, 18 December 1991) Western Metropolitan Market Trust - Report for period ended 28 March 1991 Emergency Services Superannuation (MFBSF Transfer) Act 1991 - Whole Act, other than sections '7, 8 and 9; Westernport Memorial Hospital- Report for the year 20 November 1991 (Gazette No. G45, 20 November 1991) 1990-91 Friendly Societies (Reserve Board) Act 1991 -Sections West Gippsland Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91 1,2(1),3,4,6 and 7; 1 February 1992 (Gazette No. G3, 22 January 1992) Williamstown Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91 Health Registration Acts (Amendment) Act 1991 - Wimmera Base Hospital- Report for the year 1990-91 Sections 36, 37 and 45; 26 November 1991 (Gazette No. G45, 20 November 1991); Sections 4, 9,10,14,17,21,22, Wodonga District Hospital- Report for the year 24,31,41 and 42 on 15 December 1991 (Gazette No. G48, 1990-91 11 December 1991) Yarrawonga District Hospital and Nursing Home - Judicial Studies Board Act 1990 - Part 2; 26 February Report for the year 1990-91 1992 (Gazette No. G8, 26 February 1992)

It It It It It Land (Transaction Information) Act 1988 -Sections 5(2), 6(2), 7(2), 8(2), 9(2) and 10(2); 1 February 1992 Proclamations fixing operative dates in respect of (Gazette No. G4, 29 January 1992); Remaining the following Acts pursuant to Order of the House provisions; 4 March 1992 (Gazette No. G9, 4 March 1992) dated 25 October 1988: APPROPRIATION MESSAGES

Tuesday. 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 25

Litter (Amendment) Act 1991 - Whole Act except APPROPRIATION MESSAGES sections 6,7,8 and l1(l)(a)(iii); 1 February 1992; Sections 6,7 and 8; 1 June 1992 (Gazette No. G3, Messages read recommending appropriations for: 22 January 1992) Melbourne University (VCAH) Bill Medical Practitioners (Amendment) Act 1991 - Section 4; 1 March 1992; Section 12; 1 August 1992 (Gazette No. Melbourne Water Corporation Bill G8, 26 February 1992) Victorian Supply Service Bill Melbourne University (Hawthorn) Act 1991 - Part 2; 1 January 1992 (Gazette No. 570, 23 December 1991) Public Account (Further Amendment) Bill

National Rail Corporation (Victoria) Act 1991 - Whole Companion Animals Bill Act except section 11; 1 January 1992 (Gazette No. G49, 18 December 1991) Audit (Amendment) Bill (No. 2)

Pollution of Waters by Oil and Noxious Substances (Amendment) Act 1991 - Whole Act; 1 March 1992 (Gazette No. G7, 19 February 1992) TEMPORARY CHAIRMEN OF COMMITIEES

Pollution of Waters by Oil and Noxious Substances Act The SPEAKER laid on the table his warrant 1986 - Part 1, Divisions 1, 2A and 3 of Part 2 and nominating John Edward Delzoppo, Graham Keith Schedules 1-5; 1 March 1992 (Gazette No. G7, 19 Ernst, Bruce James Evans, Sherryl Maree Garbutt, February 1992) Kenneth Stephen Jasper, Louis Stuart Lieberman, Max John McDonald, John Francis McGrath, Road Safety (Further Amendment) Act 1991 - Sections Margaret Elizabeth Ray, John Ingles Richardson, 1-4,6-11,13,15, 17(1) and 18; 1 January 1992 (Gazette Francis Patrick Sheehan, Hayden Kevin Shell, No. G49, 18 December 1991) Barry Edward Hector Steggall and Gerard Marshall Vaughan to act as Temporary Chairmen of State Insurance Office (Sale) Act 1991 - Whole Act; 20 Committees whenever requested to do so by the November 1991 (Gazette No. G45, 20 November 1991) Chairman of Committees.

State Trust Corporation of Victoria (Amendment) Act PRIVILEGES COMMITTEE 1991 - Whole Act; 1 January 1992 (Ga2t'tle No. G49, 18 December 1991) Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I move: Teaching Service (Further Amendment) Act 1991 - Section 4; 1 January 1992 (Gazette No. G49, 18 That, in relation to the matters referred to the Privileges December 1991) Committee on 28 May 1991 and 24 October 1991, the Committee have power to commission a legal adviser Transfer of Land (Computer Register) Act 1989 - to - (a) guide the committee in its deliberations; Whole Act; 3 February 1992 (Gazette No. G49, 18 (b) review the evidence; and (c) elucidate matters of December 1991) complexity.

Transport (Car Pooling) Act 1991 - Whole Act; 11 I received a letter from the Chairman of the December 1991 (Gazette No. G48, 11 December 1991) Privileges Committee asking that I convey to Parliament its resolution of 13 November 1991 Victoria University of Technology Act 1990 - Sections which is the basis of the motion before the House. 55-59,61-62,67-68,69(2) (except paragraph (b» and 71(2) (except paragraph (a» and the Schedule; 30 In relation to the motion the Clerk raised with the January 1992 (Gazette No. G4, 29 January 1992) Privileges Committee the absence of any specific power to engage outside persons to assist the committee in its inquiries and deliberations.

The committee was kind enough to give me a copy of the letter it received from Mr J. G. Little, the Clerk PRIVILEGES COMMITIEE

26 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992 of the Legislative Assembly, which went to the issue Mr RaPER (Minister for Employment, of committees receiving specialist evidence. For the Post-Secondary Education and Training) (By leave) benefit of the House I direct to its attention the page - It is a quaintly phrased motion and is couched in attached by the Clerk, page 640 of May's similar terms to the paragraph in May that I quoted Parliamentary Practice, which states: earlier.

In the past, select committees have been given unusual The committee has asked the House to assist it in powers to secure assistance when it appeared necessary this matter and the House should leave it for the for them to consider and evaluate complex technical or committee to decide how it uses the legal adviser. It professional evidence. These sometimes took the form cannot go further than the motion and can do only of powers to employ qualified individuals who should what is stated in the motion I have moved. conduct their own investigations and report to the committee. More frequently, orders made by the House Mr BROWN (Gippsland West) - This is a most of Commons have envisaged the committee's important issue. To the best of my knowledge this is consultation with persons of professional capacity and the first time a Parliamentary committee has expertise. Following the development of this practice in requested that it be given power to commission a the 1960s committees are now regularly empowered to legal adviser. It is implicit in the motion that the appoint specialist advisers either to supply information employment of a legal adviser will be at full cost to which is not readily available or to elucidate matters of the taxpayer. I am concerned that for justice to be complexity ... even-handed any person who may appear or be requested to appear before the committee should Mr Little's letter said that the committee could carry properly be able to also have legal representation - out this request either by making a report to which is expensive - to protect his or her interests. Parliament or by seeking the passage of a motion introduced by me. Mr Little advised the committee If the committee is to be resourced to commission that the simplest method would be to approach the senior legal counsel, as I assume would be the case, Leader of the House to sponsor such a motion. the committee should also examine whether a person or persons requested to appear before the What the committee does with the legal adviser is a committee because of any sort of allegation or matter for the committee and not for me. It may be a suspicion of wrongdoing also be given the matter for other members of the House when the opportunity of obtaining legal representation if he or committee, in due time, reports to it. she believes it to be necessary.

Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - The final remarks of It is fair that the same request be considered for the Leader of the House cause me some concern those appearing before the committee because when because, if I heard correctly, and I seek his guidance I was in the line of fire before it, I engaged legal on this, he indicated that the legal adviser would be representation at my expense - that was my appointed to assist the committee in its deliberations decision. At that time there was never any but that the basis of the work that person would suggestion that the committee should be resourced carry out was the responsibility of the committee to commission senior counsel. I want to make the and not of himself. The motion states in part: point clearly and succinctly: if justice is to be done and is to be seen to be done on this occasion, or on ... the committee have power to commission a legal any future occasion, it is fair and reasonable that any adviser to - (a) guide the committee in its person called before the committee, which has the deliberations; (b) review the evidence; and (c) elucidate resources for legal representation, should be matters of complexity. similarly resourced.

That would assume that the committee would not Motion agreed to. obtain a legal view on a particular matter, but rather that the legal adviser would assist the committee to form its own views.

The Minister nods his head indicating agreement with what I have said. I trust that is his view and that the House is not being sold a different bill of goods. CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 27

CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL institutions that have suffered enormous financial failures, particularly in Victoria. Second reading Both the former Premier, the honourable member for Order of the Day read for resumption of debate. Btmdoora, and the Attorney-General were warned many times about this outcome during the early The SPEAKER - Order! Before proceeding, I days of the government but they chose to ignore advise the House that as the required statement of those warnings. Sometimes I have wondered intention has been made pursuant to section 85(5)(c) whether they lacked an tmderstanding of the of the Constitution Act 1975, I am of the opinion that possible situations that could occur. This question the second reading of this Bill is required to be also applies to the other former Attorney-General, passed by an absolute majority. the Minister for Planning and HOUSing.

Debate resumed from 24 October 1991; motion of At some stage possibly a deliberate decision was Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General). made by the government to allow certain entrepreneurs to operate freely, without any Mrs WADE (Kew) - On many occasions before effective regulation. in this Chamber I have said that the Attorney-General appears to have a split personality Until January 1991, the responsibility for the because he puts two different types of legislation enforcement of companies legislation or the before the House. From time to time the corporation securities scheme was in the hands of Attorney-General has introduced Bills based on the the former National Companies and Securities recommendations of expert committees, such as a Commission and Corporate Affairs Victoria. committee that is expert in the management of the Corporate Affairs Victoria, tmder the administration courts or in some other area of his portfolio of the Attorney-General, took a number of major responsibility .. The coalition has fotmd little cases to court during the early 198Os, including difficulty supporting legislation of this sort. successful prosecutions of Alan Bond, Sir Ronald Brierley, and the first successful warehousing case However, the other Bills introduced by the brought in Australia. Corporate Affairs Victoria Attorney-General tend to be of the scratch ticket initiated legislation that brought time-sharing variety; that is, it seemed a good idea at the time. schemes and subsequently retirement villages, under the corporations legislation. Substantial I regret to advise the House that this Bill appears to shareholding cases, such as the one that dealt with a fall into the latter category. I suppose we cannot voting trust, were dealt with in a way that expanded expect anything else from the Attorney-General in the ambit of the legislation, in contrast to recent this area of the law. During the two periods he has cases which have limited the ambit of corporation been Attorney-General, beginning in 1983, he has legislation. shown a notable failure to deal with white-collar crime. That has been a feature of the Australian Unfortunately the record of Corporate Affairs Labor Party government in Victoria over the past ten Victoria since 1985 is abysmal because of constant years and also of the Federal ALP government changes to the legislation during that period and during the same period. because of the lack of resources supplied to the National Companies and Securities Commission and The failure to cope adequately or to enforce the laws to Corporate Affairs Victoria as well as a constant dealing with white-collar crime has been at change of personnel, particularly in Corporate incalculable cost to the commtmity. Investors, Affairs Victoria. depositors and small shareholders have lost their life savings. Thousands of jobs have been lost because of Corporate affairs commissioners with no expertise the government's failure to enforce the Crimes Act and no tmderstanding of the responsibilities of their and the Companies Act in the area of white-collar office have been appointed. This was epitomised in crime. Australian and overseas investors have lost 1985 by the appointment of Mr John King as the confidence in our securities market. Honest business Commissioner for Corporate Affairs. At the time Mr people have been struggling to compete in a market King was quoted in all the newspapers as saying, where the dishonest players have had the with the approval of the Attorney-General, that he advantage.Taxpayers have had no choice but to saw himself not as a policeman but as a business stand behind the government guarantees for facilitator. What hope did small investors, small CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

28 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992 shareholders and depositors in financial institutions During the 1980s there was a refusal by the then have when one examines a statement such as that National Companies and Securities Commission from a person whose job it was to enforce the (NCSC) to prosecute for serious offences because the provisions of the Crimes Act as they apply to Ministerial Council required the NCSC to use State corporations? We cannot blame Mr King too much corporate affairs offices to run prosecutions. because he was placed in the job by the Unfortunately the NCSC did not want State Attorney-General and no doubt he was given corporate affairs offices to share any credit for instructions by the Attorney-General that he was not successful prosecutions and chose to give a l~w to be a policeman but rather a business facilitator. priority to prosecutions. Mr King remained in that job for a relatively short time and subsequently joined the Attorney-General However on occasion show cases were announced at the then Ministry of Transport where they were or brought to court without sufficient evidence, on jointly responsible for the scratch ticket fiasco. the basis that where guilt could not be proved the publicity would punish the alleged offenders. For The Attorney-General is not slow to criticise the same reason arrests were shown on television business people for their failures and mistakes. I accompanied by statements by Mr Henry Bosch, suggest that his failure in relation to scratch tickets, former Chairman of the National Companies and which I think has been estimated to have cost -- Securities Commission, that alleged offenders were guilty, yet subsequent court proceedings showed The SPEAKER - Order! A second-reading that guilt could not be proved on the evidence speech can be fairly broad ranging but the available. Settlements took place behind closed honourable member seems to be stretching the doors of cases which should have gone to court. If an bounds more than a little. offender had enough money he could buy himself out of a prosecution. Mrs WADE - I was speaking about this proposed legislation, which is designed to regulate None of this contributed in any way to the health of corporate Australia. I was endeavouring to point out the corporate sector in Victoria during the 198Os. that it would be difficult for business people to trust During all this time the Attorney-General stood by the Attorney-General, who is responsible for this and did nothing. I believe he is now standing by proposed legislation, when -- while the Australian Securities Commission (ASC) follows a similar path to that followed by the NCSC The SPEAKER - Order! This is not an and makes exactly the same mistakes. opportunity for the honourable member to reflect on any other honourable member. I suggest that the I refer to an article that appeared in the Age of 16 honourable member should confine her remarks to March 1992 in which Mr Tony Hartnell, Chairman of the Bill. the Australian Securities Commission, is reported as saying: Mrs WADE - To rephrase what I was saying, losses estimated at $11 million do not normally lead If the ASC is perceived as an organisation that is a to promotions in the private sector. criminal prosecution organisation, frankly I think there's no long-term future for it. It must be an From the mid-1980s there was virtually no organisation that is perceived as a current, commercial enforcement of the Crimes Act in the area of regulator. business administration and little enforcement of the penal provisions in the companies and securities I was glad to note that the new Commonwealth legislation. Fees charged by Corporate Affairs Director of Public Prosecutions, Mr Michael Victoria were far in excess of the amount spent on Rozenes, said on the Channel 9 program Business the investigation of corporate misbehaviour or any Sunday that he was concerned about the view within other regulatory activity. the ASC that it should switch from criminal to civil prosecutions. Tens of millions of dollars paid in fees to Corporate Affairs Victoria by businesses were directed away Mr Rozenes said he wanted to ensure that corporate from corporate regulation into general revenue. The wrongdoers did not escape simply because they outcome was inevitable. As I said earlier, the wore white shirts and carried expensive briefcases. Attorney-General was warned of that outcome as He said that the only true deterrent was one which early as 1983. involved the full weight of the criminal law . He said CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 29 it was important for the integrity of the criminal prosecutions in cases of misbehaviour by justice system that no distinction was made between corporations and people connected with those who had money to do deals on prosecutions corpora tions. and those who did not. I could not agree more with those statements. If the Attorney-General wishes to respond to what I have said I am only too happy for him to do so. Having actively opposed the prosecutions and However, I ask him to be factual. I did have to object regulation of the corporate sector during the 198Os, on the last occasion he took this course because what the collapse of business entrepreneurs and the the Attorney-General said then was incorrect. While failures of State Bank Victoria and Victoria's largest I do not recall being upset about it I believe that group of building societies -- deba te in this House should be based on fact.

Mc KENNAN (Attorney-General) -On a point I am speaking about prosecutions for fraud, which of order, Mr Speaker, the honourable member has are serious matters that would come under this Bill. strayed far and wide. This Bill deals with the I do not believe the Attorney-General should prosecution of certain criminal matters. At this stage respond by raising matters of, for example, striking I do no more than point out that the honourable off directors or taking prosecutions for failure to member is straying well beyond the Bill. lodge annual returns.

The last time the honourable member did this and I While I have no reason to believe that the record in referred to her record at Corporate Affairs Victoria relation to annual return prosecutions was any she got upset and objected. I put the House on notice better after I left than it was before I left Corporate that if the honourable member wishes to stray far Affairs Victoria, the striking off of directors had and wide I will bring forward very damaging barely started, if it had started, before I left. I was statistics to show that prosecutions and other responsible for the legislation being conceived. matters increased significantly after she departed Corporate Affairs Victoria and that the The SPEAKER - Order! I suggest the government's record in that area -- honourable member for Kew confine herself to the point of order. Mr J. F. McGrath interjected. Mrs WADE - Mc Speaker, I am responding to Mr KENNAN - We have had 15 or 20 minutes the point that was raised. I want to give the of nothing but aspersions. If that is the way the Attorney-General some guidance as to the issues it honourable member wishes to play it, I will reply. I would be appropriate for him to raise if he wants to put the House on notice that during that reply I do deal with the matters I have raised. not expect to be interrupted by points of order about aspersions. The SPEAKER - Order! The guidance of the Attorney-General is a matter for the forms of the We have had a wide-ranging debate, including House and for the Chair to detennine. However, I suggestions that I opposed prosecutions and a remind the honourable member for Kew that I have whole range of things that are quite outrageous and already drawn her attention to the limits of the wrong and would not be repeated by the honourable debate. I do not uphold the point of order raised by member outside the House. Those things have the Attorney-General, but I again remind the nothing to do with the Bill but if that is the way the honourable member for Kew of the limits of such a honourable member wishes to carry on I will reply debate. and put the facts before the House. I do not expect to be interrupted. Mrs WADE - Following substantial business failures and the collapse of State Bank Victoria and Mrs WADE (Kew) - On the point of order, Mc Tricontinental Corporation Ltd, Parliament has been Speaker, I do not object to the Attorney-General faced with the Attorney-General springing into responding to what I said. The issues I have been action by introducing a large amount of legislation. canvassing are well within the ambit of the Bill. It is a Bill about prosecutions for fraud and covers I have referred to the corporations legislation which prosecutions brought by State directors of public handed over certain State powers to the Australian prosecutions and the Commonwealth Director of Securities Commission and the Commonwealth Public Prosecutions. It is quite clear that it includes Parliament. Nevertheless I remind the CRIMES (FRAUD) BI~L

30 ASSEMBLY Tuesday. 17 March 1992

Attorney-General that that legislation has force in particularly the members of the criminal bar. As a Victoria as Victorian law not Commonwealth law; it result everyone I have spoken to about the Bill, remains Victorian legislation for which he has including the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), responsibility. has significant reservations about it.

Legislation dealing with building societies and I was surprised to discover that the Bill was listed as friendly societies has been introduced, and the the first Order of the Day on the Notice Paper. opposition is looking forward to the credit union Because it is clear that the Bill requires more work, I legislation which the Attorney-General promised anticipated that the Attorney-General would last session but which is yet to be introduced. In the propose a great many amendments to it, as has been interim we have seen the expensive Royal his habit with most of the Bills he has handled. Commission into the failure of Tricontinental and an inquiry into the collapse of Pyramid and associated I am also surprised that the government is going building societies. ahead with debate on the Bill without indicating whether any amendments to it will be proposed and The Bill can be put in the context of the other without giving any indication that the submissions legislation to which I have referred. Neither that that I am sure the Attorney-General has received on legislation nor the Tricontinental Royal Commission the Bill, which was introduced last session to give all has assisted those who have lost their life savings or those affected the time to comment on it, have been their jobs as a result of the failure to enforce taken into account. companies legislation during the 1980s. I refer to the Attorney-General's second-reading The Attorney-General's rush to legislate will not speech, where in the first paragraph he talks about assist the vast majority of business people who have the difficulties encountered in prosecuting complex always behaved honestly but who have found white-collar frauds and the cost of doing so. He says, themselves in competition with those who have as reported at page 1357 of the Hansard of 24 October failed to do so. Honest business people are suffering 1991: as a result of the failure properly to enforce the existing laws; and as a result of this rush to legislate There have been numerous instances where they will have more and more obligations to meet in prosecutions have foundered or have not been brought carrying out their daily business activities. because of the difficulties in achieving successful prosecutions. Although white-collar crime, like most other ~me, will always be with us, it can be minimised or When the Attorney-General responds at the end of encouraged. It will be best minimised by the the debate, as he has promised to do, I should be rigorous enforcement of existing law, not by the grateful if he were to advise the House of the Attorney-General's forever changing the law. That is numerous instances where prosecutions have not a choice for governments to make - and I believe been brought because of the difficulties encountered the wrong choices were made during the 1980s. in achieving successful prosecutions.

If existing laws had been properly enforced - even I assume those involved cases where the alleged though governments believed they were not perfect offenders were clearly guilty, because if it were not - the problems encountered during the 1980s may known whether they were guilty, what the have been avoided and we might not be faced with Attorney-General said would not make much sense. this rush of legislation. I should like to know what the cases were, whether The Crimes (Fraud) Bill is of the scratch ticket they were all Victorian cases and why the alleged variety, by which I mean the Bill is not well thought offenders were not prosecuted if evidence was out. As with scratch tickets, the Attorney-General available. I should also like to know whose decision rushed in without considering how his proposals it was not to prosecute the cases. If the cases were would affect Victorians. not prosecuted because sufficient evidence was not available, how will the Crimes (Fraud) Bill make any After speaking to many people about the Bill I difference? understand the Attorney-General has not consulted those who one would nonnally expect him to In his second-reading speech the Attorney-General consult - that is, the experts in the field, referred to the notable successes enjoyed by the CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

Tuesday. 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 31

United Kingdom Serious Fraud Office, which used conviction in the context of a case going alternative procedures for committals in matters of immediately to triaL serious and complex fraud, which he says were available under legislation similar to the Bill. The notice of transfer given by the DPP who brings a case within the ambit of this legislation is to specify I trust the Attorney-General is not referring to the the charge or charges. However, I understand that in second Guiness trial, which collapsed about a month complex cases the DPP may not be in a position to ago, or to the Blue Arrow case, which was specify the exact charges at that stage. The Bill conducted over twelve months and which I believe makes no attempt to deal with this problem. cost in the vicinity of $40 million. I ask the Attorney-General to specify the English cases to Virtually everyone I have spoken to has made the which he has referred. point that in complex cases the prosecution case at committal is often very different from the I have been unable to find anyone who supports the prosecution case at triaL This seems to be recognised Crimes (Fraud) BilL I understand the in clause 8, which provides for the defendant to Attorney-General has been advised by the Law apply for a discharge on the ground that the Institute of Victoria that the Bill does not enjoy the evidence is not of sufficient weight to support a institute's support. The Law Institute does not conviction. believe the Bill will achieve the objectives claimed for it by the Attorney-General in his second-reading The basis for such an application in the equivalent speech - that is, speedier and cheaper trials. provision in the United Kingdom Bill is that the evidence will not support conviction for the offences Members of the institute who practise in the area charged, but in this Bill the clause provides that the believe it is more likely that all allegations of serious evidence will not support conviction for any and complex fraud will go to full trial and that, in indictable offence, so that the defendant has to show addition, the equivalent of committal hearings will not only that he cannot be convicted on the evidence be held in either the County or Supreme courts at of the offence with which he has been charged but great additional cost to the defendants and to also that he cannot be convicted on the evidence of Victorian taxpayers. any indictable offence. That seems to be a significant departure from the United Kingdom Bill. I shall be The Law Institute has also expressed concern about interested in the Attorney-General's response. the inability to appeal against decisions made by the DPP to proceed under the Bill by issuing a notice of Another criticism of clause 8 is that it transfers the transfer. The institute suggests that it would be more onus from the prosecution - which until now has desirable to consider changes required to committal had to show there is enough evidence to proceed - proceedings rather than to completely do away with onto the defendant who now has to show that there them in serious and complex fraud cases and to is insufficient evidence. adopt a totally new system. While a number of barristers have said they would A solicitor who wrote to me about the Bill- I am be happy to see the application for discharge sure he has also written to the Attorney-General­ incorporated in existing proceedings before the described the inability to appeal against decisions County Court or the Supreme Court, they do not see made by the Director of Public Prosecutions as a it as being an appropriate alternative to committal backward step that had the potential to prejudice the proceedings. interests of accused persons, if not to perpetrate miscarriages of justice. A number of objections have been received about clause 19, which authorises the court to order the A submission from another solicitor states that the defendant to respond to the prosecution's statement Bill fails to take into account that the prosecution of the case. In particular, this provision changes the does not always disclose material evidence at nature of a criminal trial from a requirement on the committal and in fact is often not in a position to do part of the prosecution to prove guilt into a trial of so. That solicitor also referred to the burden placed issues put forward by the prosecution and the by this Bill on the DPP in assessing without the defence. In the sort of matter that I have been talking benefit of committal proceedings whether the about - a complex trial involving corporate fraud evidence is of a sufficient weight to support a - one issue may well be whether an offence has actually taken place. CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

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This aspect of the Bill is of considerable concern to Commonwealth Bill is supposed to become the basis the Criminal Bar Association which has said to me for uniform evidence legislation throughout that such a basic change to the criminal justice Australia? system should be a matter for wide-ranging debate rather than being hidden away in a Bill introduced In summary, this Bill treats serious and complex without any consultation with members of that fraud cases differently from other crimes. The right association or, so far as the Opposition can ascertain, of a defendant to have evidence tested before a with anyone else. magistrate remains for other crimes but is abolished for those crimes which the State or Commonwealth Some aspects of the Bill are unrelated to the DPP declares to be serious and complex fraud. substitution of a preparatory hearing for committal proceedings. One matter concerns the desire of the The reasons given are speed and cost; in these cases government to permit charts, overhead projectors the ability to test the evidence and to cross-examine and other such modern equipment to be used in major witnesses prior to trial would be lost. This courts in cases of this sort. There is no doubt that may be a disadvantage to the prosecution and to the such devices would assist the jury, but I should have defendant as weaknesses in prosecution cases will thought they would also assist the juries in other not be exposed at the committal stage. Therefore, it cases. One wonders why this amendment has not means the community would bear the cost of been put earlier in a more general context. complicated and lengthy trials in every case of complex and serious fraud without any prior However, to the best of my knowledge, at present examination of evidence including evidence of the there is nothing to prevent the use of those aids in prosecution witnesses. court. I examined this issue while in Washington in 1985, and studied examples prepared by an expert in No doubt most honourable members will be aware this area when I visited New York. Perhaps the of the outcome of serious charges brought against Attorney-General could explain exactly what is Mc Lord, the former head of Elders Resources. When meant by the proposed provision. If they are the evidence of a prosecution witness was required to explain the prosecution or defence case, I discredited at the committal stage the proceedings should have thought they could be used now. did not go ahead. Had that not happened, the community would have been put to the expense of a If it is intended that the aids should actually be full trial. evidence - and that appears to be the proposal as set out in proposed new section 149D - I would The Attorney-General may wish to say in response have thought we should not be talking about the that the DPP can always present a person for trial approval by the court for the introduction of although the person has not been committed. This particular charts or other depictions but that these applies at present but it is an exception; any such should only be treated as evidence if agreed to by decision is usually subject to critical examination. both parties. That will not be the case if this Bill proceeds.

Changes to the Evidence Act have been incorporated The Bill substitutes the assessment of the prosecutor in clauses 35 to 37. I ask the Attorney-General to for the independent assessment of a magistrate­ explain the relationship between this Bill and the and the former assessment cannot be independent. Evidence Bill currently before the Commonwealth Parliament. It appears that both Bills pick up some It should be also noted that the Director of Public of the concerns expressed by the former DPP, Mc Prosecutions is not always successful in the cases Mark Weinberg, in his paper on the presentation of that he takes to committals, although I presume complex corporate prosecutions to juries, but rather prior to doing so he has formed the impression that more of his proposals have been picked up in the there is enough evidence to support convictions. Commonwealth Bill than in this Bill. The DPP is not happy with this Bill. I should have No doubt the Attorney-General can explain which of thought the Bill would have been discussed with the Bills will apply in cases brought by the him prior to its introduction and that any concerns Australian Securities Commission and why some of expressed by the DPP would have been met. the changes incorporated in the Commonwealth Bill Perhaps the Bill was discussed with Mr Bongiorno are not included in his Bill. Why is he making these prior to its introduction, but it is clear from my changes when, as I understand it, the CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 33 discussions with him that he is not happy with the Kingdom are proving to be less effective than Bill in its present form. anticipated. However, the coalition has a commitment to fighting white-collar crime. A He told me that committals assist the prosecution in healthy business sector is an essential part of a identifying weaknesses in the prosecution's cases flourishing capitalist system. Some changes may be and particularly whether witnesses will stand up to required to the way serious frauds are dealt with in cross- examination. He also said that the our courts. United Kingdom legislation on which this Bill is based has not proven to be entirely successful and Rather than defeat the Bill outright the coalition is that it is particularly difficult to obtain a statement of prepared to support its referral to the Legal and defence response under similar provisions to those Constitutional Committee which could also consider in clause 19 of the Bill. alternative proposals that have been put to me by a number of the people I have mentioned. The matter The DPP pointed out there is no penalty for such a is in the hands of the Attorney-General, but I advise failure other than possibly the awarding of costs; him that the coalition cannot support the Bill in its apparently that is not effective in the United present form. Kingdom. He also said the drafting of the Bill leaves a lot to be desired and that his office will have Mr CLARK (Balwyn) - There can be little doubt difficulty in meeting the time limits that the Bill will that the law and procedure in this State are in need impose. of substantial reform in both civil and criminal jurisdictions. The wide range of areas where reform The DPP believed the aims of the Bill could be needs to be addressed include court administration, achieved more effectively under existing legislation particularly in document management; the rules of by the proper management of cases by judges. In evidence; the drafting of the laws that are answer to a question about the cases he is now administered by a judicial system, in particular the handling he said he has no current cases of the effective implementation of clear and unambiguous variety that would be handled under this Bill. The drafting; and, perhaps most importantly, reduction DPP referred to a couple of cases that were with the of the sheer volume of law that this Parliament and police commercial crime group but which had not our Commonwealth counterparts generate to be yet come to his office. In those circumstances it applied in the courts. would seem that there is no urgency for the Bill to proceed. I regret that Parliaments tend to find it difficult to reject legislation simply on the basis that it adds to Honourable members will appreciate that the Bill is the volume and complexity of their law in the face of important to people accused of crime because it compelling pressure to deal with specific problems. takes away a fundamental protection that has always been provided by our legal system. It All of those areas need reform and I welcome the removes this protection for serious and complex fact that attention is being directed towards ways of fraud cases but not for other cases. However, it improving the criminal law procedures that apply in would take only a few amendments to apply this Bill this State, particularly in this Bill which applies to to all indictable offences. Therefore, in considering serious and complex fraud. the Bill the House may be looking not just at fraud cases but at all serious criminal charges. Having said that, the Bill appears to suffer from a number of serious defects which would make it The Bill is important to law enforcement authorities undesirable for it to be passed in its present form. I because it has the potential either to assist or inhibit do not purport to be an expert on criminal law the effective prosecution of serious crime. It is matters. I have had little involvement in criminal important to the taxpayer because it has the cases in my practice as a solicitor before coming into potential to add significantly to the cost of the this Parliament, so I approach this without the criminal justice system. It is important to judges of degree of practical expertise that many other the Supreme and County courts who will be members of the legal profession, the police and responsible for putting the provisions of the Bill into those involved in prosecution have. effect. Nonetheless, having reviewed the various The coalition has grave doubts about the Bill, arguments that have been raised in criticism of the particularly as similar provisions in the United Bill I believe a number of them have merit. CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

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The core of the argument against the central element Then we will have what could be described as a of the Bill, namely, to do away with committal poor-man's committal or, perhaps more accurately, proceedings and substitute a system of preparatory a rich-man's committal conducted before a Supreme hearings and the exchange of documents at'the or County Court judge; and while the procedures Supreme and County Court level, is that it deprives will be different, the evidence will be canvassed on a an accused person of the opportunity of reviewing preliminary basis just as it is canvassed at the the prosecution case and having a case that does not moment on a preliminary basis before a magistrate stand up discharged at the committal stage, thereby in a committal proceeding. aVOiding a Significant amount of time, cost and inconvenience to the defendant. If that is the case, wherein lies the benefit of the Bill? It will just degenerate and deprive us of the benefits Statistics were presented in a 1989 paper on that have been aimed for. measurements taken during the first half of 1989 which suggested that approximately 12.7 per cent of Having made those comments, there are some germs cases that went to committal in Victoria in that of good ideas in the Bill, and it would be a great pity period were discharged. If that figure is of general to see them lost; I hope they can be salvaged and application, the committal stage is not a mere rubber that either the Bill can be reconstructed or the good stamp or formality. At that stage a significant points lifted out of it and implemented in another number of cases are weeded out. manner.

If that stage is unavailable in a serious and complex I refer to some of those aspects of the Bill worth fraud matter the defendant is put to the cost and further consideration. Provisions relating to business expense of the preliminary process at the Supreme documents and the proof of business documents do or County Court levels. It is also more expensive for seem to have some advantages. I do not pass the State to have these preliminary matters judgment on the exact mechanisms being adopted in conducted at those levels than it would be at the the Bill but for some time there has been a problem Magistrates Court level. I do not know precisely of businesses keeping microfiche records of their what scales of cost would apply to practitioners but I documents and having them marked, and having would not be surprised if the costs of practitioners appropriate declarations made that can be were higher in those courts than they would be for incorporated on the microfiche records so they can committals in the Magistrates Court. be retrieved and produced in court; and if a means can be found without prejudice to avoid that The procedures provided in the Bill expose difficulty and allow a certain class of business defendants to a risk of greater expense and documents to be produced and accepted in inconvenience. They also expose the State to evidence, unless they are challenged or disputed, considerable expense and may not provide the cost that would appear to be a good idea. savings the Attorney-General hopes they will provide. Indeed, my fear is that the procedure On a similar basis I have often wondered about the contained in the Bill will degenerate into a de facto appropriateness of the rigidity contained within the committal hearing process, but one conducted at a best evidence rule. I note that it is proposed that the Supreme or County Court level rather than the rule be abolished. I am not sure whether abolishing Magistrates Court level. That is because my fear is it without making some substitute provision will be that the applications for discharge provided for in sufficient, but the idea underlying the proposal is to clause 8 of the Bill will become a matter of course. be commended.

As I understand the situation at present, if the It is also highly desirable that there be at least some accused does not want to go through the committal exchange of documentation between the parties in process the accused can waive that process. preparation for a trial rather than going to trial by Therefore, it follows that those accused that do not ambush, and again I suppose I betray my civil law waive that process want it to take place, and if they background in saying that in civil law there is a are deprived of the ability to have a committal process of pre-trial discovery in which the parties proceeding, they will look for the closest available have to tell each other of the documents that exist. step under the Bill which is the application for discharge. I cannot see why they will not simply do In addition there is a process of pleading in which this in every case where it is considered by them to the parties are supposed to set out their prospective be advantageous. CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 35 legal cases and respond to the points raised by We diligence is one that is worthy of further other party. investigation. I must say I cannot see why the normal civil law of costs, following the event, on the In principle it would seem quite possible to apply balance of probabilities, should not also apply more some of these concepts to the criminal jurisdiction so generally in the criminal jurisdiction, and that is that a lot of the fumbling around and wasting of possibly a way in which cost provisions could be time that takes place at the trial proper can be extended further. avoided. All of the matters I have touched upon, which are I must say I do not accept the notion that a criminal contained in the Bill, seem to have an element of trial is something akin to a sporting or gladiatorial merit to them and are not to be dismissed out of contest, and that it is just not cricket if certain hand. I hope they can be further refined and in some procedures do not apply to give the accused certain way incorporated into reform of our criminal law advantages. procedures.

The test as to what rights and procedures should be Another suggestion I might raise for future applied in any trial is the extent to which those consideration, if we are going to adopt some of the procedures are capable of ascertaining the truth both reforms contained in the Bill, and particularly the to convict the guilty and to acquit the innocent, and notion of more directed supervision of the pre-trial the extent to which those procedures impose cost, process - which the Bill provides is to be directed inconvenience and burden on any party to the by a Supreme Court judge or a County Court judge dispute, be it the accused or the Crown or the - is that this control of the pre-trial process be witnesses. implemented at a Magistrates Court level, which will avoid the cost and expense of Supreme and Those are the goals that need to be borne in mind in County Court judges being tied up in these devising criminal procedures, and the notion of a preliminary matters. After all, if it is considered sporting contest is not one that is relevant. appropriate that other committal proceedings continue to be dealt with by a magistrate, why also In addition, there is quite a deal to be said for the is a magistrate not considered able to issue pre-trial idea of ensuring that adequate documentation is instructions of a more directory nature if it is provided to jurors. Physiological studies suggest decided to move in that direction? that people do not absorb information particularly effectively through the spoken word. People are By way of comparison I refer to what appears to often far better able to assimilate information have been quite a degree of success obtained in the through the written word or through diagrams or commercial causes list of the Supreme Court, where visual presentations, which are also contemplated in the court does exercise a degree of pressure on the the Bill, and I recall that the Minister for Food and parties to get their cases in order, and to bring them Agriculture has, in past times, commented on the to trial. fact that procedures in this place are conducted virtually exclUSively by word of mouth, and he has That seems to have been effective, and again remarked on the impediments to supplementing speaking as someone whose experience has been in procedures in this House with visual and other the civil law, I wonder why that process cannot be material. The same criticism can be directed towards applied to hasten the pre-trial preliminaries in the court proceedings. criminal jurisdiction.

There is no reason why we should not take For all those reasons I hope the Attorney-General advantage of the technology. Computers can often takes up the suggestion of the honourable member very well summarise and present correlations and for Kew that the matter be referred to the Legal and relationships that are not readily apparent otherwise. Constitutional Committee for further review. The Bill has some commendable elements, but it is There should be no impediments to this material fundamentally flawed and it will not work if being used by either side in a criminal or, indeed, a implemented in its present form. I hope Parliament civil trial. can work constructively to bring about valuable reform to criminal law procedure in this State. The procedure for applying cost sanctions to practitioners who fail to act with suitable speed and CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

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Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - Members of 97 convictions were recorded. The rate of the opposition have performed up to their usual convictions increased enormously when she left the obstructionist standard. Contrary to what the office. honourable member for Kew said, the Bill is based on the 1985 report of the United Kingdom Fraud Mrs WADE (Kew) - On a point of order, Mr Trials Committee chaired by Lord Roskill. Any Speaker, so all honourable members may be as well criticism of the Bill is a criticism of the English informed as the Attorney-General, I ask him to table drafting because the Bill is modelled closely on the the paper from which he is reading. He obviously Serious Fraud Office in the United Kingdom. got a paper from his staff.

The honourable member for Kew made many The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the comments about the government in relation to Attorney-General whether he is reading from a Corporate Affairs Victoria. I point out to the House document and, if so, whether he is prepared to make that before she became a member of this place the it available. honourable member for Kew was the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs. At that time she complained Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - Yes, and I bitterly about the performance of the former Liberal should like to read it into Hansard, with the government and the need for more resources. permission of the House.

In the first three years of Labor Party government Mrs WADE (Kew) - On a further point of order, the resources of Corporate Affairs Victoria were Mr Speaker, I ask the Attorney-General where the increased enormously; staff numbers went from 220 figures come from. If the Attorney-General is going to 351. At that time the then Commissioner for to read them into Hansard he should indicate their Corporate Affairs, the honourable member for Kew, source. complained that the increase did not go far enough, which is an indication of how poorly the party she The SPEAKER - Order! I suggest that the now represents took care of the office. honourable member for Kew wait to hear the Attorney-General's comments. The honourable Mrs WADE (Kew) -On a point of order, Mr member may raise a point of order at that stage if it Speaker, I have no objection to the Attorney-General appears to be necessary. saying I was not happy with resources in Corporate Affairs Victoria, but he should not misrepresent the Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - I shall read facts. I do not recall ever having criticised the the document and I shall hand it over after I have previous government, and I would like the read it. The honourable member for Kew asked me Attorney-General to withdraw his comment. to read the document. Staff of the office increased from 220 to 351. The convictions recorded were as The SPEAKER - Order! This is not an follows: year ended 30 June 1984, when the opportunity to make a personal explanation. There honourable member for Kew worked at the office, is no point of order. 74; year ended 30 June 1985, when the honourable member worked at the office, 62. The number of Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - The convictions was falling despite a 60 per cent increase honourable member for Kew worked in Corporate in staff. That must be a world record. Affairs Victoria under the leadership of the previous Liberal government and she said the resources Mrs Wade - That is staff. allocated to the office were not nearly enough. The Labor government increased staff numbers from 220 Mr KENNAN - If you do not like it, you should to 351. That was a huge increase in resources, but not have asked me to read it. she said that was still not enough. What an enormous criticism the then commissioner was The SPEAKER - Order! The Attorney-General making of the previous administration, yet she has should address the Chair. the gall to come into this place and criticise this government over a 60 per cent increase in staff. Mr KENNAN - For a moment my manners lapsed. The document continues: the year after the For the year ended 30 June 1984 the then honourable member for Kew left the office - commissioner was able to record only 74 1986 - convictions rose from 62 to 95 and in the convictions. Two years after she had left the office, year ended 30 June 1987 they increased to 97. CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

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I also refer to a document I shall make available and referred to resources. In winding up the debate I am to which I expect objections: the Dowling Strong doing no more than replying to matters raised by the report. The matters that report raised were: failure to honourable member for Kew. I warned honourable cull matters at an early stage; a constant backlog and members when they were listening to what she was incapacity to deal with the massive increase of saying that I would reply to her remarks and I resources; failure to review files at an early stage and predicted that she would object because the an inability to handle the backlog. The government opposition does not like the truth. had to introduce on-the-spot procedures because of the backlog. In winding up the debate I am replying to matters raised by the honourable member for Kew and I am The last comment on the document I am reading out confining my remarks to matters relating to because the honourable member for Kew wanted me Corporate Affairs Victoria and prosecutions the to is: honourable member for Kew said were relevant to the Bill. Wade could never see the wood for the trees. The SPEAKER - Order! There is no point of Mrs WADE (Kew) - On a point of order, Mr order, but I ask the Attorney-General not to reflect Speaker, I ask the Attorney-General to identify who on any honourable member. made that statement. Mr KENNAN - Much to the intense anger of the The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable opposition, the record of the government in relation member for Kew does not have an opportunity to to Corporate Affairs Victoria is extremely good: it debate the issue or make personal explanations. She massively increased resources provided during the has the opportunity of raising a point of order but 27 years of inactivity of the previous Liberal can do no more than that. administration. This government took substantial measures to computerise the office, and in 1986 and Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - I remind the 1987 a range of matters were designated to be dealt House that the only reason I was reading the with by on-the-spot fines. That was initiated through document was that the honourable member for Kew the Ministerial Council. asked me to. It is typical of the behaviour of members of the opposition to demand that a From 1982 to 1985 the resources of senior and document be produced and then to be hurt when it competent people were taken up with trivial is. There will be a lot more to come in that vein. matters, which is why there was an enormous problem in dealing with the backlog despite a When she was the Commissioner for Corporate 60 per cent increase in staff. In addition to a shift of Affairs the honourable member for Kew could not personnel, which had good results, the government cope with a 60 per cent increase in staff. decided many mundane matters should be dealt with through on-the-spot fines. Mr CLARK (Balwyn) - On a point of order, Mr Speaker, you drew to order the honourable There were some 20 000 cases annually of people member for Kew when she made remarks about the failing to lodge documents on time and they were, Attorney-General's record as Minister for Transport. quite properly, matters to be dealt with by way of The Attorney-General is now making imputations on-the-spot fines so resources could be concentrated about the honourable member for Kew which have on serious matters. The number of such convictions no relevance to the debate before the House. increased enormously in the 1985-87 period. In those Accordingly, I ask you, Sir, to bring him back to few years there was an enormous increase in order. convictions, as well as a raft of issues being dealt with by way of on-the-spot fines. Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - On the point of order, Mr Speaker, the honourable member for The opposition's approach to this Bill shows what its Kew squarely raised matters relating to the problem is. As the honourable member for Kew government's record in regard to Corporate Affairs demonstrated when she was the Commissioner for Victoria. Among other things, she said her successor Corporate Affairs, the problem is an inability to see was not a policeman and that he was under the wood for the trees. The opposition burrows into instructions from me that he was not a policeman. detail and is incapable of grasping the real point. To She said I opposed prosecutions, and she also see the problems in 1982 and 1985, despite the CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

38 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992 massive increase in resources the government gave United Kingdom committee report of seven years the Corporate Affairs Commission, one has only to ago and months of consultation in Victoria, to put listen to the debates in this place. The honourable up or shut up. It cannot continue to run for cover member for Balwyn said that much of the law and without being exposed as a party that wants to bury procedure in both the civil and criminal areas needs every initiative. This will do no more than give the to be reformed. prosecution some options if it wants to use them.

However, this opposition is incapable of putting If the opposition is not happy with particular forward one constructive suggestion, except to refer clauses, as it has indicated, the government is happy the matter to someone else for advice - in this case to examine them. If the opposition wants to move the Legal and Constitutional Committee of the amendments we are happy to do that too. Parliament. The opposition has no ideas and no policies, but it has a record of being absolutely The SPEAKER - Order! I am of the opinion that incapable of dealing with a 60 per cent increase in the second reading of this Bill is required to be resources. All the opposition suggests is the referral passed by an absolute majority. As there is not an of the matter to the committee. absolute majority of the members of the House present, I ask the Clerk to ring the bells. This Bill is based on a recommendation of the Fraud Trials Committee in 1985 in the United Kingdom, Bells rung. chaired by Lord Roskill, and serious fraud legislation which has been in operation for a few Members having assembled in Chamber: years in the United Kingdom. There have been successes as well as frustrations. The first Guiness The SPEAKER - Order! So that I may be case was the greatest success in this area. satisfied that an absolute majority exists, I ask honourable members to rise in their places. All the Bill does is give the prosecution the option; it does not of itself abolish committals. It gives the Required number of members having risen: prosecution the option in an appropriate case, particularly where there has been a lengthy Motion agreed to by absolute majority. corporate investigation - much of which would be on transcript and all of which may be known to the Read second time. defence - where the suggestion that there should be a committal that might go on for twelve or eighteen Committed. months would be ridiculous. The Bill gives the prosecution an option in some cases, where it thinks Committee it is appropriate, to go straight to trial or when a judge can control pre-trial procedures. If the Clause 1 prosecution does not want to use that option it does not have to. Mrs WADE (Kew) -Clause 1 sets out the purposes of the Bill, the major purpose being to The honourable member for Kew mentioned the make provision for the trial of offences of serious Director of Public Prosecutions and said that one of and complex fraud and also to simplify the rules the issues was proper management by judges under relating to documentary evidence. the existing legislation. There are issues relating to that but there are also issues which give judges the Sitting suspended 6.31 p.m. until 8.3 p.m. power to manage cases under the legislation. Mrs WADE - Prior to the suspension of the The Bill has been on the table since November and sitting I commented that clause 1 set out the we have received a number of detailed comments of purposes of the Bill and makes provision for trial of late which we will consider. We will introduce serious and complex fraud and simplifies the rules significant amendments to the Bill, some of which relating to documentary evidence. The thrust of the might go beyond what Lord Roskill suggested. We Bill is towards enforcement and it is a measure -- propose to take the Bill into Committee, adjourn on clause 1 and bring in amendments. Again the Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) -On a point opposition will have the opportunity, with an of order, Mr Chairman, the honourable member is important piece of legislation that is based on a restricted to speaking to the clause. CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

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Mrs WADE - Earlier this evening the Financial Review about civil actions by the Australian Attorney-General was critical of people taking Securities Commission when the purpose of the Bill points of order and given that all I have done is read is for the provision of trial for criminal offences. out the clause it seems he is getting a bit edgy. The Bill is about enforcing the law. It is about bringing to The CHAIRMAN (Mr Norris) - Order! I must trial people who have broken the law and the point I uphold the point of order raised by the made during the second-reading debate is that Attorney-General. The purposes clause is not an area enforcement is more important than legislation. for a second-reading debate. Strictly speaking, the There is no point in putting through legislation purposes clause is limited to debate on the purposes unless it is actually enforced. There is no point in us of the Bill. Often there is leeway either way but I as a Parliament passing this Bill if no-one is ever to believe the honourable member is transgressing. The be prosecuted. basis of the purposes clause is whether the words aptly describe the purposes of the Bill; it provides The point I was making as strongly as I could during more or less the parameters of debate on this clause the second-reading debate was that there has been so I caution the honourable member. I believe she is no commitment to prosecutions in this State from straying far beyond the purposes of the Bill. the mid-1980s until now and if that continues there is no point in this sort of measure coming before Mrs WADE (Kew) - Mr Chairman, I did not Parliament. speak on the point of order because I thought it was absolutely apparent you would rule against the As I said, it is clear that there has been a problem Attorney-General. The Bill is directed to cases which with prosecutions in big corporate fraud cases and are being brought by the Australian Securities the problem has been that there have been few of Commission. The Bill will regulate the way in which them. This is not just looking back at history, this is those cases are brought before our courts. The looking at the current situation. I quoted the purposes of the Bill, to which I am speaking, are to Chairman of the Australian Securities Commission make provision for the trial of serious and complex saying that he was not really a man who was fraud cases. It must be absolutely to the point of this experienced in prosecutions, that he saw himself clause that it is no use this Parliament passing this more as a business regulator and that the Australian clause tmless serious and complex fraud cases are Securities Commission would not be carrying out as brought before the courts. Otherwise this Bill is no many prosecutions in the future as it had in the past. more than a lot of words that mean absolutely In fact it has been severely criticised in the past for nothing passing before us. As I said, we must look to not carrying out enough prosecutions. the future, not to the past.

In the Australian Financial Review of 4 March 1992 The Australian Securities Commission legislation is Mr Hartnell, the Chairman of the Australian Victorian legislation in that it is applied in Victoria Securities Commission, stated that the commission by this Parliament through the Corporations would increasingly use civil actions, including asset (Victoria) Act. The Attorney-General is the freezing orders, rather than criminal procedures as a responsible Minister for that Act in Victoria. I want means of enforcing the corporations law. to ensure that he does not make the mistakes in the future that he has made in the past and that he He was speaking at a conference organised by the ensures that the law that is in place is properly Australian Institute of Criminology in Sydney. Mr administered and enforced in this State. As I said, Hartnell also said that the commission would that was not the case during the 1980s with the support civil actions against companies by allowing National Companies and Securities Commission litigants access to files provided by the commission. (NCSC), which is well documented. The NCSC had So he is not even going to take civil proceedings; he no time for prosecutions for the reasons I mentioned will leave that to the ordinary members of the public in the second-reading debate. If it prosecuted, it had and make his files available to those people to take to do so through a State corporate affairs office, action if they wish. He is also proposing that new which it was not prepared to do. legislation should have priority which will set civil penalties -- The NCSC therefore took other measures, most of which proved to be not very successful, and in the Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - On a point end that brought about the winding-up of the of order, Mr Chairman, the honourable member is National Companies and Securities Commission. diverting widely in reading out bits of the Australian The opposition does not want a repeat of that CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

40 ASSEMBLY Tuesday. 17 March 1992 scenario and wishes to ensure that the throughout the Bill relate to the offences one would Attorney-General has learnt from his mistakes. like to see covered by the proposed legislation if it is to be more effective than the current procedures for There is a need to examine carefully the provisions prosecuting serious corporate crime. of the Bill to see whether the provision it makes for the trial of serious and complex fraud cases will be For instance, in his earlier remarks the more effective than the law in place at the moment. Attorney-General referred to a number of types of prosecution that I do not think come within the Immediately before the suspension of the sitting, definition of serious and complex crime. He talked while responding to the second-reading debate, the about figures for prosecutions without specifying Attorney-General quoted a number of figures and what those prosecutions were. They could have statements concerning the operations of the then ranged from a major investigation of a person such Corporate Affairs Office during the 198Os. I wish to as Alan Bond to a corner shop failing to lodge a make a few comments so that the Attorney-General particular document. The figures he quoted for may learn from experience. On the question of prosecutions mean nothing. staff-- The Attorney-General also spoke of on-the-spot fines The CHAIRMAN - Order! I bring the and disqualifications of directors. I do not regard honourable member back to the clause: she is those matters as falling within the definition of straying far beyond what is proper and reasoned serious and complex fraud. Perhaps the opposition debate on the purpose of this clause. The honourable should have raised a point of order to pick the member's remarks may be more fitting in the Attorney-General up on that matter. second-reading debate. The debate on this clause is strictly limited to whether the words contained in It is always interesting to hear the Attorney-General the clause aptly describe the purposes of the Bill. I speak on corporate crime matters because he quite refer the honourable member to my original remarks. often has a different opinion from almost anyone else I know when speaking about those matters. He Mrs WADE - The purposes of the Bill are set out said in relation to on-the-spot fines and briefly in clause 1. The words are very broad. I do disqualifications of directors that I had not not believe one can find too much to quarrel with in sufficiently taken advantage of the provisions when the wording of the clause, but it is important to I was Commissioner for Corporate Affairs. I remind ascertain whether the wording of the clause the Attorney-General that the provisions had only describes the provisions in the Bill. just come into force when I left the Corporate Affairs Office so it would have been difficult for me to The words in the section suggest that this Bill will enforce them. I was largely responsible for that establish a more satisfactory trial of offences for legislation being enacted. serious and complex fraud than has been the case in the past. The words "serious and complex fraud" are Mr Kennan - What rubbish! It had been there not defined in the Act itself; their interpretation is for eight years; it took you eight years. left to the discretion of the Director of Public Prosecu tions. Mrs WADE - As is the case with all the other figures, that is not correct. I had been there for five One of the problems with the Bill is that the words years, not eight years. I was largely responsible -- "serious and complex fraud" are not properly defined. It is not clear to me whether they cover Mr Kennan interjected. offences such as insider trading and warehousing. I do not believe that type of offence could be Mrs WADE - I am not going to tell the described as fraud in normal parlance, yet people Attorney-General; he can look it up in his reports. It indulging in that sort of behaviour cheat other is wrong, like all his other figures. In response to the investors in the stock market out of money they Attorney-General, I believe the legislation went would otherwise have had. The effect is very similar through some time before that and he was slow in to what in the past has normally been described as proclaiming it, which makes it difficult to enforce it. fraud. The Attorney-General also referred to the Dowling I am not sure that the words "serious and complex Strong report. My recollection is that the major fraud" found in the purposes section and repeated CRIMES (FRAUD) BILL

Tuesday. 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 41 criticism of the report was that investigations were investigators we would have no crime - while the too thorough. Attorney-General would have us believe that everything that needed to be done was being done! 1 can appreciate it is difficult for the Attorney-General and that he has problems looking I shall quote from a letter from the Attorney-General backwards in an area where he has had a lot of to the head of his department, dated 22 November responsibility when he speaks of matters such as 1984, referring to me, where he says -- staffing. He was speaking of investigation staff, but-- The CHAIRMAN -Order! 1 am finding it difficult to relate the honourable member's remarks The CHAIRMAN - Order! The honourable to the clause before the Committee. member will return to the clause before the Committee. Mrs WADE - My point concerns enforcement. It is important that the law should be enforced and Mrs WADE - Leaving aside questions of that cases should be taken to prosecution. staffing, I was extremely sorry to hear of the Attorney-General's lapse of memory. I remind him I am about to remind the Attorney-General of views of what he said in 1984 in another place. On 1 May he expressed in 1984, which 1 trust are not the views 1984 he talked about the assistance provided by the he now holds. When referring to me in 1984, the Corporate Affairs Office. He is recorded at page 2521 Attorney-General said: of Hansard as saying: Her practice of assessing cases as requiring ... the assistance provided by the Victorian Corporate investigation without reference to limitations on the Affairs Office ... is considered by many to be already resources available to her ignores the fact that those the best in Australia. limitations are the starting point for determining priorities in investigations. He is recorded at page 528 of Hansard of 4 October 1984 as saying: Her monthly report for September and her memorandum on the Costigan report indicate that I consider that Victoria's office is perhaps the most many cases are being written off because no efficient in the country and this joint project will lead to investigators are available. That is not the real reason. greater efficiency in Victoria and better cooperation The real reason is that other cases were of a higher between the two offices. priority ...

I think that was in reference to the Queensland office. On that basis, if the Attorney-General had only one staff member to investigate 100 cases, that staff I return to my original point on this clause, that member would be fully occupied in enforcement is more important than regulation. It is investigating -- important to have a good understanding of the basis of enforcement. Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - On a point of order, Mr Chairman, I ask the honourable The system 1 was reminded of when the member to make the whole document available to Attorney-General was speaking before the the Committee. suspension of the sitting, and which I trust he is not now applying to Corporate Affairs Victoria and Mrs WADE (Kew) -I have no problem with other areas within his administration which relate to that, Mr Chairman. As 1 was saying, on the basis complex fraud, is that if you have no investigators, referred to in the letter, if the Attorney-General had you have no fraud. In other words, 1 trust he is not only one staff member to investigate 1000 or 2000 still seeking to define the problem out of existence cases, so long as that person was fully occupied by saying that if you have no-one available to there would not be a problem. Other cases would investigate crime, you have no crime! not require investigation because they would not have priority taking into account the number of staff I suppose such a novel approach could be extended available. to the Police Force: if the government sacked the Police Force and adopted the Attorney-General's I trust the Attorney-General has moved on from that approach to crime, it could be said that without any notion and that he is now more familiar with the STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION (AMENDMENT) BILL

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activities of the Australian Securities Commission osteopaths will have majority control over the and the remaining staff of Corporate Affairs operations of their registration board. Victoria, who have important work to undertake in the area of, for example, supervising people who are It has long been the practice that the number of raising funds for charities. chiropractors and osteopaths has equalled the number of medical practitioners, which has not The CHAIRMAN - Order! I beg the honourable always been in the best interests of the former. member to come back to the clause before the Chamber, because she has strayed far beyond it. In It is interesting to reflect on the history of fact, the honourable member's time has expired. chiropractic and osteopathy in this State, especially as we have taken a long time to recognise that they Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - For the are alternative styles of treatment accepted by the reasons I outlined during my summing up of the community. second-reading debate, I suggest that progress be reported. Chiropractic was discovered by David Palmer, who established the Palmer School of Chiropractic in Progress reported. 1895. Although they have been around for a long time, we have been reticent to extend to STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION chiropractors and osteopaths their right to be treated (AMENDMENT) BILL as professionals.

Introduction and first reading The Bill could hardly be described as expansive. It will increase from seven to nine the number of Received from Council. members on the registration board and will make provision for chiropractors and osteopaths to take Read first time on motion of Mr KENNAN control of their professional activities. In addition it (Attorney-General). will make changes to the internship required following academic qualification as an osteopath or CHIROPRACTORS AND OSTEOPATHS chiropractor. (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2) It is on that level that I have received some Second reading correspondence from professionals working in the field in my electorate who have expressed some Debate resumed from 14 November 1991; motion concern about a particular area. of Mr ROPER (then Treasurer). I shall read to the House what Or Tim Free said to Mr J. F. McGRA TH (Warmambool) - I rise to me in correspondence in late October last year: speak in the debate on the Chiropractors and Osteopaths (Amendment) Bill (No. 2), the first The Victorian Branch of the Chiropractors Association instalment of which ended at 4.8 a.m. on Friday, 15 of Australia ... has been campaigning for these types of November. I should have thought that the changes for some time now. indulgence of the House should have extended to my St Patrick's Day dinner not being interrupted, He goes on to say: but that was not to be! My view, and that of the CAA, is that these changes The Bill has two purposes: firstly, to increase the size will allow the chiropractic and osteopathic professions of the Chiropractors and Osteopaths Registration to take greater responsibility for the administration of Board; and secondly, to make changes to the their own registration board. The present composition qualifications needed before practitioners are fully of the board is largely a relic of earlier times, as registered by the board. suggested in the second-reading notes.

The Bill has taken a long time to come to fruition. He further says that he would welcome support for Chiropractors and osteopaths are the last group of the Bill because he believes it will bring health professionals but one to be required by much-needed change to the profesSion. Victorian legislation to register with statutory boards; and for the first time chiropractors and CHIROPRACTORS AND OSTEOPATHS (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2)

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I also received comments from Mr Trevor Creed and When one considers the very early recognition of Jenny McOowall, who also operate in my electorate. this type of health care, it is interesting to note the In addition I received a letter from Or Peter Oavis, growth that has occurred. As I said earlier the who raised another issue of concern. He says that Palmer School of Chiropractic was established way although he supports the changes sought he has back in 1895, and so far as can be established by some concern, particularly about clause 11. That research it appears that the first osteopaths in clause inserts into the Act proposed section 8A, Victoria were Edgar Culley and James Brake - a which requires a person to complete a twelve-month name that sounds like "break" is an interesting name internship before being fully registered as a for a chiropractor to have! Their names appear in a practising chiropractor in Victoria. trade guide for 1909. Thereafter there is a fair gap in the history, but certainly we can trace the practice Or Oavis goes on to say: back to that period. History would also tell us that reference to the chiropractic clinic was not published The internship would be under the direction of a in the guide until 1931. Therefore the practice has chiropractor or osteopath, at a location, both to be grown, but there has certainly been some cynicism approved by the board. from early times and we have heard of chiropractors being called quacks and all sorts of names along the He then cites his concern that the graduating way. practitioner should be clinically competent and, if not, should be interned at college clinics where It is interesting to reflect that now the two proper supervision is available. He says also that he professions have been accepted by the community in believes passing the responsibility of an internship the sense that there are now 610 registered to a sole practitioner rwming a busy practice would chiropractors and 60 osteopaths in Victoria. When not allow adequate supervision. That is an we say it has taken us a long time to get legislation important point and he obviously raises it because of together that gives this particular group of the concern to maintain the level of quality care that professionals their autonomy, it is not an is currently provided in Victoria by chiropractors understatement. We have been slow to act. It is and osteopaths. obvious now that the community is accepting this type of alternative health care and we have a It is fairly obvious that if someone does not have the responsibility to ensure the practitioners in this area time to supervise, direct and guide other people in can function in their own right. The amendments this area it could be that the practices those people contained in the Bill will allow those professionals to develop at that stage will be ones they will carry do that. throughout their professional careers and therefore jeopardise the long-term health of their clients. As I said earlier, originally representation on the board by three chiropractors was automatically Therefore I suggest to the Minister that we ought to counterbalanced by three medical practitioners. That examine the proposed legislation and make obviously indicated a lack of trust or confidence in provision to ensure that the internships are carried the chiropractors and affected their ability to control out either in colleges or in professional businesses their own destiny in that sense. As I said we have that have sufficient numbers of qualified people to been slow learners, but we have now reached the ensure adequate supervision. stage where we are prepared to allow them to do that. It is also recognised that the structural changes The second-reading speech deals with the history of to the board will implement the changing of these health services. I am sure most people in this qualifications relating to internship. House have sought the services of a chiropractor or osteopath at some time or another. Certainly if one I have pleasure in supporting the Bill and conclude sits in the uncomfortable seats in this Chamber for only with the criticism that it has taken us a long very long one will need the services of a chiropractor time to get around to introducing proposed because these seats are probably best described as legislation that is seemingly very simple. The Bill is antiquated. As the honourable member for Swan implementing two basic changes but they appear to Hill says by interjection they are certainly not be such commonsense changes that one wonders ergonOmically designed. They are certainly why it has taken the government so long to respond inadequate and one could say this sort of seating in this way. arrangement promotes chiropractic work! CHIROPRACTORS AND OSTEOPATHS (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2)

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I hope the Bill will receive a speedy passage through Kingdom and as chiropractors in the United States. both Houses of Parliament. I hope it will be Therefore, a conflict occurred within the board. proclaimed quickly so that chiropractors and osteopaths will be able to get on with what they do As I have said, the then honourable member for best: providing a level of health care that is now Brunswick and the Honourable Rod Mackenzie widely accepted in the community as an alternative introduced a private member's Bill. type of medical care. It is one which I have had the opportunity to use several times and I commend it Debate on a further chiropractors and osteopaths to anyone who believes a bit of manipulation can Bill, as recorded in Hansard of 28 April 1981, states: assist. ... a group of medical practitioners - one can call them I wish the Bill a speedy passage. that because they practise a form of medicine - have been discriminated against because of a legislative Mr WEIDEMAN (Frankston South) - As has oversight ... The Bill ensures that if they have been been said by the honourable members for Portland practising chiropractic or osteopathy for five years in a and Warmambool, osteopathy, which includes the ten-year period prior to the introduction of the practice of chiropractic, dates back to the last legislation, they will be eligible for registration. century. The Bill will right an injustice which has been meted It was not until 1978 that what was commonly called out to people in this position. the Ward report was handed down in Victoria; a former member of the Legislative Council, the After 30 October, Parliament was prorogued and all Honourable Roy Ward, chaired a committee of this the notice papers were cleared. In March and April Parliament inquiring into alternative medicines. He 1981 a Bill was introduced by the then Minister, Bill brought down a report that was responsible for a Bill Borthwick. eventually being introduced into this place by a Liberal government. The legislation was enacted in The Minister is reported in Hansard of 31 March 1981 January 1979. as saying:

During the spring sessional period of 1980 the ... a person who had been practising as a chiropractor Honourable Rod Mackenzie and the honourable or osteopath for at least five years between 1 January member for Brunswick, now the Minister for 1969 and 1 January 1979 will be entitled to be registered Employment, Post-Secondary Education and ... the amendments proposed in the Bill will ... better Training, introduced a private member's Bill relating reflect the intentions of the principal legislation. to changes sought in the practices of chiropractors and osteopaths. The two issues of concern in the In the second-reading speech on 31 March 1981 the 1978 Bill, which caused differences between the Minister made several comments that I shall refer to opposition and the government, centred on the because they are important. He states: number of members on a registration board and the way any board would be structured. As I am sure there is no need for me to point out to the House, there are a number of chiropractors and Because of the community sensitivity about this osteopaths in practice in Victoria who have no formal issue at the time, and because of what was then qualifications or training as provided for in the Act and called the battle between alternative medicines who must rely on the fact they have been carrying on versus normal medicines - that is, chiropractors chiropractic and osteopathy under circumstances and and osteopaths versus doctors and surgeons - it for a period approved by the board in order to qualify was eventually decided that a government "umpire" for registration. should be installed in the middle. At the time it seemed to be the appropriate way to handle the The government believes that it would be in the better situation. interest of the profession and of the public for this discretionary provision to be replaced by a statutory That has worked reasonably well except in the area requirement. that I understand is called the "grandfather" or "grandmother" clause, where people who are not In other words, a person who had been practising as a qualified, as described in the reports of the board, chiropractor and osteopath for at least five years have been registered as osteopaths in the United between 1 January 1969 and 1 January 1979 will be CHIROPRACTORS AND OSTEOPATHS (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2)

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entitled to be registered under the Chiropractors and Mr WEIDEMAN - I pick up the interjection Osteopaths Act provided the board is satisfied that he from the honourable member for Springvale about or she is professionally competent to practice and is of the board. Some have gone to the board for good character and provided that application has been registration and some have taken their problems to made before January 1982. the Supreme Court.

In reply to that second-reading speech, the then Mr Micallef interjected. health spokesman for the opposition, the honourable member for Brunswick, said he had earlier raised Mr WEIDEMAN - If one refers to the that matter when discussing the private member's Chiropractors and Osteopaths Registration Board's Bill. He made several observations including the fact annual report for 1990, one finds that 591 that for about eighteen months people had been chiropractors and 51 osteopaths were registered as approaching him because they had found it difficult at 31 December 1990; and 1 chiropractor and to obtain registration. I find it interesting that it has osteopath was registered, making a total of 623. Of taken ten years for this Bill to come to this place. the 29 complainants who seek registration, at least the 24 who were practising before 1980 should be At that time the honourable member mentioned the considered. grandfather clause; it was subsequently amended when changes were made to the composition of the In the record of complaints about unregistered board. He commented about the practice of persons, complaints were made against 5. The board acupuncture and alternative medicine being cautioned 2 and prosecuted 3. One defendant registered. We have heard nothing about pleaded not guilty but was found guilty; of the two acupuncture or other types of alternative medicine who pleaded not guilty one was fined $3000 and being practised in Victoria. However, this ordered to pay costs; one was placed on a $100 good government will have little time to bring the behaviour bond, and ordered to pay costs of $900; necessary legislation before the House because it two cases were not proven. will not be here much longer. There could be other people deemed to be wanting The then shadow Minister for Health raised certain deregistration. The board received some 33 issues regarding chiropractors and osteopaths. He complaints for unprofessional conduct together with quite rightly made the point that changes should be 18 formal complaints. The report then states what made to the board. He also asked for the Minister's action the board took. The board has been diligent in response to a letter sent to him by the Australian examining those complaints about misleading Natural TherapiSts Association; he was concerned advertising and other matters. I have no idea why 29 about prejudice against members of that association. people remain unregistered because in 1981 the I would like the Minister to comment on that government presented a Bill, which the opposition because the honourable member later became the supported, to register acupuncturists and herbalists. Minister for Health. The government has said nothing since that time. The matter will be examined when the Bill is In 1981 the amendments allowed the grandfather between here and another place. The opposition clause to apply to any person who had acted wishes to know whether the 29 people concerned are responsibly and taken responsibility as a suitable for registration under the grandfather chiropractor or osteopath in the five years preceding clause. With the grandfather clause being omitted the introduction of the January 1988 Act; it was there should be the opportunity for people to stated that such persons should be considered for become registered who do not have any formal registra tion. academic qualifications other than that of experience and application of their so called profession. I have been approached by about 29 people who are experiencing difficulty in Victoria in obtaining The Bill says that a person can be appointed because registration. Of the 29, 24 were practising before of the way in which that person carries out his or her 1980. It appears that some have fulfilled the occupation and can be a person so qualified without necessary procedural requirements. having studied a particular course.

Mr Micallef interjected. The Chiropractors Association of Australia (Victoria) and the Royal Australian College of Surgeons make one or two comments. The honourable member for CHIROPRACTORS AND OSTEOPATHS (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2)

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Portland said that the persons appointed should be continuing involvement in the under graduate fellows rather than members of the Royal Australian education of nurses ... College of Surgeons and the Royal Australasian 4. That there should be staggered membership of the College of Physicians. I hope that matter is remedied boards so that all members do not retire at the when the Bill is between here and another place. same time ... The opposition wishes to know why it has taken so 7. That the Minister should consult the major health long to obtain a panel of names for members to be practitioner interest groups, for example, key appointed to the board. I suggest to the Minister that professional associations, trade unions and a time be set by which Governor in Council will professional colleges in making appointments of appoint a person from the Royal Australasian health practitioners to boards. College of Physicians and the Royal Australian Certain observations are made by the association: College of Surgeons, together with a qualified barrister, if the panel of names is not presented. 1. An amendment to paragraph 3(2)(a) to change the Proposed new section 3(2) as contained in clause 3 of number of chiropractors from three to four, so that the Bill states: the new paragraph reads: (a) 3 are to be chiropractors registered under this Act "(a) Four are to be chiropractors registered under and elected in accordance with sub-section (3); this Act and elected in accordance with subsection (3)". (b) one is to be an osteopath registered under this Act and elected in accordance with sub-section (4); That is in reference to Meredith Carter's explanation of what she recommends regarding board members. (c) one is to be a person engaged in the teaching of The association also says: chiropractic or osteopathy who is nominated by the Minister; 2. An amendment to paragraph 3(2)(d) to change "member" to "fellow" and"Australian" to (d) one is to be a member for the time being of the Royal "Australasian", so that the new paragraph reads: Australian College of Surgeons who is practising orthopaedic surgery and who is nominated by the "(d) One is to be a Fellow for the time being of the Minister; Royal Australasian College of Surgeons who is practising orthopaedic surgery and who is (e) one is to be a member for the time being of the Royal nominated by the Minister. Australasian College of Physicians who is nominated by the Minister; 3. An amendment to paragraph 3(2)(e) to change "member" to "Fellow" so that the new paragraph (f) one is to be qualified to be admitted to practise as a reads: barrister and solicitor of the Supreme Court of Victoria who is nominated by the Minister; "(e) One is to be a Fellow for the time being of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians who (g) one is to be a person (not being a chiropractor, is nominated by the Minister. osteopath or medical practitioner) who has knowledge of the interest of the general public 4. The inclusion of new subsections following who is nominated by the Minister. subsection 3(2) to provide for the nomination of a list of candidates by the Royal Australasian The association would have been delighted had College of Surgeons and the Royal Australasian there been a board of ten. It makes reference to the College of Physicians ... broader membership of registration boards. An accompanying document from a review of That would provide for a board of ten people registration for health practitioners by Meredith including four chiropractors, one osteopath and one Carter makes reference to some of the suggestions person involved in teaching. that have been made. Chapter 3, headed "Broader membership of registration boards", states: The honourable member for Warmambool raised the issue of traineeships. Selected people would It is suggested that the basic principles underlying continue their academic studies in particular areas to legislative action in respect of these matters should be: gain practical experience. It would be valuable for trainees to develop their expertise by working with a 1. That it is desirable that boards should remain practising professional chiropractor or osteopath for relatively small (no more than ten members) a twelve-month period. That is a worthwhile although some exception should be made for the suggestion. Victorian Nursing Council in light of its present CHIROPRACTORS AND OSTEOPATHS (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2)

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The association states: (iii) has attained the prescribed level of competency, skill or experience; and The association fully supports the four-year term for (b) the applicant is of good character; and board members with no more than three consecutive terms. From the "Final Report". Recommendation 11. (c) the applicant has paid the prescribed fee for "Terms of Board members should be four years and no registration under this section.". more than three consecutive terms ... " I ask the Minister to advise the House how an applicant will qualify for proposed new section Clause 5 of the Bill states: 8(2)(a)(iii) and whether it can be used for people seeking registration who do not hold a prescribed New section 3A inserted. degree, diploma or other qualification or have not passed an examination but have come to be known After section 3 of the Chiropractors and Osteopaths Act to have expertise in that area and have the required 1978 insert - competency and skill. "3A.Altemate members Dr Napthine - Like the old grandfather clause! (1) The Governor in Council may appoint a person nominated by the Minister to act as a member Mr WEIDEMAN - Yes, like the old grandfather of the Board during any period or all periods clause. I wonder whether it will be seen in that light. when a member is unable to act as a member. If in 1981 both the government and the opposition There has been a problem of getting a number of felt so strongly about having those people board members to a meeting. In this way there will considered, it seems to me the board should do its beaquorum. best to seriously consider them. The board's recent report does not refer to these people causing many An amendment was also sought to allow the complaints; the complaints referred to involve Chiropractors and Osteopaths Registration Board to Wll"egistered practitioners. prepare or adopt codes of practice. Clause 8, in part, provides: I suggest these new arrivals should at least be considered and I hope the new board will take up its Section 6 of the Chiropractors and Osteopaths Act responsibility in looking closely at them. It should be 1978 is amended as follows: ... possible for these 24 to 30 people, who represent only a small percentage of the 600 or 700 people in (b) after paragraph (g) insert - the profession, to be placed in studentships or "(ga) prepare and publish or adopt codes of conduct traineeships under the guidance of another person about the practice of chiropractic and osteopathy; who has passed the diploma and sat the and". exarnina tion. The opposition had some difficulty with this A similar situation occurs in the pharmacy provision. It believed the board should be concerned profession. When pharmacists with overseas or with the control and treatment to be prescribed and interstate qualifications come to Victoria, if the set out principles and ethics that could be clearly Pharmacy Board of Victoria deems it appropriate, understood by all members of the profession. Clause they are asked to work under the guidance of a 9, which provides for the qualifications of practising pharmacist in his or her place of applicants, states: employment, either in a pharmacy or in a hospital, so they can experience the way the profession For section 8(2) of the Chiropractors and Osteopaths operates in Victoria. Act 1978 substitute - "(2) The Board shall register an applicant if it is satisfied Honourable members will be aware that Victorian that- laws covering many professions are different from laws in other countries. These people could present (a) the applicant - themselves to the registration board for an interview (i) holds a prescribed degree, diploma or other and then be placed under the guidance of a qualification; or practising chiropractor or osteopath. He or she could then report to the board whether the person was (ii) has passed a prescribed examination; or capable of performing the skills required in Victoria. CHIROPRACfORS AND OSTEOPATHS (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2)

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Clause 10 provides for the repeal of the grandfather will have the understanding and be responsible for provision and consequential amendment. Clause 11, looking after the best interests of all people in their which proposes to insert new section 8A, states: profession.

After section 8 of the Chiropractors and Osteopaths All boards, regardless of whether they are looking Act 1978 insert - after chiropractors, doctors or chemists, are established to consider the interests of the public. "8A. Provisional registration They are there for one purpose: to protect the public (1) The registration of a person under section 8 is and to look after its interests. Anyone who has provisional unless the person has completed - served on such a board should clearly understand when considering people with various experience (a) A period of 12 months ... experience in the that, "There but for the grace of God go I". I ask practice of chiropractic and osteopathy ... those people more practised in a certain profession The provision provides for a traineeship which to go out, examine the situation and recommend that allows a person to gain some experience. I remind less experienced practitioners, or those not up to the the House that some people have already taken this standard of others, be brought up to that standard. matter to court and it has cost the board a lot of Such a board has a very clear responsibility in our money in defending its position. One aggrieved community. applicant for registration was prepared to risk the expense of testing in court the refusal to register I wish the Chiropractors and Osteopaths him. Mr Marcus Try, a practitioner in chiropractic Registration Board well in the future and hope, like and naturopathy since 1967, lodged an appeal under other boards, it will act responsibly now that it has section 15 of the Act in the Supreme Court of control of its future because its future rests on how Victoria before Mr Justice King. The judgment well it works with other professionals and with the delivered on 18 November 1983 upheld Mr Try's Victorian public. appeal and the board was directed to register the appellant as both chiropractor and osteopath, the Mrs SETCHES (Minister for Community only person so registered. Costs in excess of $30 000 Services) - I thank the honourable members for were awarded against the board. Portland, Warmambool and Frankston South for supporting the Bill. Each honourable member made One hopes that would not be the way the 24 or so a significant and valuable contribution to the debate people would seek to gain registration. I have been a and there is overall support for the proposed member of a board and know there are a number of legisla tion. people who should not be registered for different reasons, such as complaints made against them, but The matters raised in the debate will be dealt with in all applicants should be given the opportunity of a number of ways. The honourable member for proving themselves. Portland said there was a mistake in the Bill and that there is a need for House amendments. I will deal I ask the Minister for Health and her department to with those amendments in a moment. ensure that in repealing this grandfather clause we do not take away the common-law rights given to Other matters raised by honourable members in the these people by the government and opposition in debate were also raised in correspondence from 1981 because at that time both sides of the House put organisations. I shall address a few of those now and up the same amendment; both sides supported the will ensure that the other matters are dealt with fact that a person with five years experience should while the Bill is between here and another place. be deemed to be a person who had some professional capacity to carry out the functions. The Chiropractors Association of Australia (Victoria) commented on the Chiropractors and Osteopaths I am sure honourable members who were here in (Amendment) Bill (No. 2). The honourable member 1978 will recall that the preparation of the Bill and its for Frankston South requested a restructuring of the passage were not easy. We were lucky we had senior proposed board to provide for an increase from two politicians such as Roy Ward and his colleagues to chiropractors to four, rather than the current examine the issue, bring the Bill to the House and proposal of two to three. Given the extensive provide for registration to occur so that restructuring of the board, there appears to be little chiropractors and osteopaths in Victoria could benefit in making the requested change. control their own profession. I hope the same people CHIROPRACTORS AND OSTEOPATHS (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2)

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Another matter raised was the inclusion of a member for Portland as well as matters raised by statutory requirement that the two colleges other honourable members who referred to clear concerned be consulted. That is not considered mistakes in the description of the colleges. necessary because the colleges would be consulted about appointments or how any appointment Motion agreed to. should be proceeded with. I give a commitment that adequate consultation will take place. Read second time.

As for the panel of names, the representative Committed. appointed from the community will, of course, be somebody who will be a consumer representative. Committee That appointment will be advertised in the same way as the appointment of the legal representative Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to. and both will be appointed by the Minister. An opportunity will exist for people to apply for those Clause 3 two positions on the board. Mrs SETCHES (Minister for Community Obviously the honourable member for Frankston Services) - I move: South was present in the House in 1978 when the 1. Clause 3, line 21, omit "member" and insert "Fellow". debate on the original legislation first occurred. It was interesting to hear from his historical 2. Clause 3, line 22, omit"Australian" and insert description how far we have come since the time the "Australasian". original Bill was considered to be an innovative 3. Clause 3, line 25, omit "member" and insert ''Fellow''. approach in dealing with health professionals. The amendments correct references in the clause to The honourable member for Frankston South raised "member" and"Australian" that should be "Fellow" a number of concerns about and urged the removal and "Australasian" respectively. of the grandfather cause. Any matters he has raised will be addressed in the debate in the Upper House. Dr NAPTHINE (Portland) - I welcome the amendments that correct the errors in the Bill. The I carmot give an express commitment on other Royal Australasian College of Physicians and the matters that need to be addressed. However, I refer Royal Australasian College of Surgeons have to one matter raised by the honourable member for contacted the opposition and pointed out that the Portland who spoke of the difficulties of people involved with the colleges are considered to understanding what is meant by setting a standard be fellows of the colleges and that should be through: reflected clearly in the proposed legislation which currently refers to "member". The matter has been ... the prescribed level of competency, skill and raised by a number of honourable members and is experience ... rather than setting a prescriptive way of now acknowledged. judging the standard. The Bill refers to the "Royal Australian College of He said also: Surgeons", which should be the "Royal Australasian College of Surgeons". That has been acknowledged. I have difficulty in dealing with legislation that talks about a prescribed level of skill without presenting a I am concerned about the deletion of the provision concept that explains what is meant. for an appointment to be made from panels of members nominated by the colleges. While I I have some sympathy with that and will address recognise that the Minister said in her the matter while the Bill is between here and the second-reading speech that she will consult with the other House. The matter will be addressed when the colleges, I emphasise that the colleges want more second-reading speech is delivered in the Upper than mere consultation. House so that it is clearly understood what is meant. I refer to a letter of 26 November 1991 addressed to I thank honourable members for their contributions. me by Mr P. Phillips, Assistant Honorary Secretary, When the Bill is in the Committee stage I shall of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians, who remedy those matters raised by the honourable says: CHIROPRACTORS AND OSTEOPATHS (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2)

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As a general principle, the Royal Australasian College clears up the question of the Fellows of the Royal of Physicians would be concerned that the Minister Australasian College of Physicians taking their place. would be able to nominate a member of the College to the Board without reference to the College. I also support the provision of the panel of names. Clause 3(2)(a) states that three members of the board We feel it is important for the College to be able to are to be chiropractors registered under this Act and maintain the current system of providing a panel of elected in accordance with subsection (3). Likewise names to the Minister for selection. Obviously, the paragraph (b) states that osteopaths have the same appointee is a representative of the College. As such, privilege, and it obviously refers to a member the College should maintain a degree of involvement in engaged in teaching, which implies Phillip Institute the selection of that representative. in Preston. The same principle applies to the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons and the Royal Similarly, in a letter of 14 November 1991 addressed Australasian College of Physicians and the Supreme to me, Tony Buzzard, Chairman, Victorian State Court of Victoria. Committee, Royal Australasian College of Surgeons, says: Proposed section 3A is also Significant because it concerns alternate members and the fact that the This committee would object to the Minister Governor in Council may appoint a person nominating a representative from this college without nominated by the Minister when a member is unable reference to the college. We would like to have the to act as a member. The Governor in Council may capacity to nominate our own representative. appoint someone from a panel of three names, and obviously if the first one is not available he could Given those clear and strong views as expressed by immediately appoint the second or third whose the two colleges whose members are being asked to name he has on record. be represented on the board, I request that the Minister consider the matter again while the Bill is It is true that these groups have been slow in between here and the other place and that she responding, and it may be possible to request that consult with the Minister for Health with a view to they appoint a panel of three names within a given making an amendment to the Bill and restoring the period such as 30 days, and if that were not rights of the colleges to nominate a panel of names. complied with one could then go ahead and appoint As I understand it, and as other speakers have said, someone else. If the body is that tardy I can see no the reason for the suggestion that the provision reason for not allowing that request to take place should be deleted was that comments had been because, obviously, without a list one caru10t make made by officers of Health Department Victoria that appointments. sometimes the colleges were tardy in their nomination of the panels of names. That difficulty I support my colleague and I am greatly in favour of can easily be remedied by an appropriate reporting to the Minister for Health that those names amendment that gives the colleges the right to be added to other members of the board. nominate panels of names and if they do not do so within, say, 60 days, the Minister can act to appoint Amendments agreed to. somebody. Mrs SETCHES (Minister for Community However it certainly gives the colleges the right that Services) - I move: they seek to have people who represent the colleges 4. Clause 3, page 3, line 1, omit "sub-regulation" and on these boards being nominated from a panel of insert "sub-section". names submitted by the colleges, and it solves the other problem about the lack of response from the 5. Clause 3, page 3, line 13, omit "sub-regulation" and colleges in nominating a panel of names. insert "sub-section". Amendments agreed to. The Minister should consider seriously those points of view from the two colleges concerned and their Or NAPTHINE (Portland) - I wish to comment definite view that they would like to continue to be on clause 3 as amended in relation to comments involved in nominating a panel of names. made by the Minister. I welcome her comments on the fact that the Minister for Health will consider, Mr WEIDEMAN (Frankston South) - I support between here and another place, the appropriate the honourable member for Portland. Clause 3 now suggestion made by the Chiropractors Association of CHIROPRACTORS AND OSTEOPATHS (AMENDMENT) BILL (No. 2)

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Australia Ltd with regard to staggered clause 9 provides an opportunity for them to appointments and that the workings of that demonstrate to the board that they have attained a suggestion would be clearly spelled out in the prescribed level of competency, skill or experience debate in the other place, because as the association so that these people who have been denied clearly points out through Meredith Carter's report, registration previously perhaps could demonstrate this whole area of staggered appointments is to the newly constituted board that they do have the recognised and suggestions are proposed about how level of competency and skill to operate or practise that can be carried out. as chiropractors or osteopaths in Victoria.

I welcome the response that staggered appointments Clause agreed to; clause 10 agreed to. are favoured by the board, and I look forward to hearing of the way it will be carried out. Clause 11

I also welcome the Minister's comments, and I hope Or NAPTHINE (Portland) - I would like the I am not misquoting or misrepresenting her with Minister to take up with the Minister for Health the regard to the lay appointee in clause 3, that that concerns of the Chiropractors Association of Victoria pOSition will be subject to some form of that proposed section BA(3) in clause 11 could be advertisement so that members of the wider general narrowly read. public will be represented generally as consumers, and will have the opportunity of putting themselves The clause could mean that a person has to do the forward for that position. I welcome those two entire twelve months of his or her internship under responses, which are positive steps. the supervision of a sole chiropractor or osteopath, because proposed section BA (3) states: Amended clause agreed to; clauses 4 to 8 agreed to. A person who is provisionally registered must not Clause 9 practice in Victoria except - (a) under the supervision of a chiropractor and Dr NAPTHINE (Portland) - I again comment on osteopath registered un.der this Act and approved the Minister's comments. With regard to the position by the Board; or of attaining the prescribed level of competency, skill or experience, again this is new water into which we (b) at any premises approved by the Board. are moving with regard to the testing of competency The association is concerned that a very narrow as a concept, rather than saying a person has passed reading of the Bill may mean that a person must an approved and agreed test. spend the whole of his or her internship under the supervision of a single chiropractor whereas it might As the Minister said, this new area poses some be opportune or even beneficial for these people in difficulties and I believe it will be a challenge for the the period of internship or traineeship to work with Minister for Health to try to outline how it will more than one chiropractor or osteopath to gain a operate. I am sure it will be useful, and I am sure the wider range of skills and experience. people in the industry of chiropractic and osteopathy will welcome the Minister outlining how I raised this issue in my contribution to the it will operate. second-reading debate. I ask the Minister to raise this with her colleague in the other place to ensure I also take up the point made by my colleague, the that the clause provides an opportunity for an intern honourable member for Frankston South, in his to work with one or more chiropractors or contribution about this being a useful way of entry osteopaths who are appropriately registered in the for people denied, for various reasons, registration twelve-month period so that he or she can gain a under the old grandfather clause. They will be able broader range of skills rather than just working with to seek registration on the basis of having achieved one person for that twelve-month period. the required prescribed level of competency, skill or experience. Clause agreed to; clauses 12 and 13 agreed to. Some people expressed concern - because of the Reported to House with amendments. disappearance of the grandfather clause into another clause - that they would lose their chance of ever Passed remaining stages. being registered, but this is not the case. One part of VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

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VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS Mr HONEYWOOD (Warrandyte) - As I (POISON BAITS) BILL indicated earlier, no member of the government is present in the Chamber; therefore, I seek to move: Second reading That the debate be now adjourned. Debate resumed from 24 October 1991; motion of Mr CRABB (then Minister for Conservation and The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Environment). member has already commenced his speech and he cannot now curtail that contribution to the Mr HONEYWOOD (Warrandyte) - The Bill has second-reading debate to move a motion for the two key effects: firstly, it seeks to control the use of adjournment of the Bill. baits manufactured or sold by the Department of Conservation and Environment for the further Mr HONEYWOOD - Given that the responsible control of vermin and other pest animals; and, spokesperson for the government is now present in secondly, it seeks to extend the powers of land the Chamber I shall not pursue a motion for the protection officers. Currently these officers may adjournment of the debate, and I shall continue with enter a property to conduct inspections of vermin my second-reading speech. Being a responsible and noxious weeds. According to the Minister's opposition we want to ensure that members of the second-reading speech this power should be govenunent are present in the Chamber during the extended so that officers can enter a property to debate. ensure poison baits are laid according to the instructions set down by the department. I was referring to three trends in the wider commwuty. The first is the ineffectiveness of some It is unfortunate that no government member will be poisons and baits and, in particular, I refer to the responding in this debate. I hope the government is spread of rabbits resistant to myxomatOSiS through in a position to respond at a suitable juncture. large areas of rural Victoria and Australia.

There are three notable trends in the wider My electorate of Warrandyte, which is fast becoming community and we can all relate to those trends. The an urban electorate, has large numbers of rabbits. Bill is being debated at a time when some poisons The problem must be addressed. It is important that and baits have been found to be ineffective. Rabbits the department develops new poisons and baits. resistant to myxomatosis are spreading throughout One of the latest poison baits that the department large areas of rural Victoria. believes will have a major effect on rabbits is pindone carrot bait. I am reliably informed that Mr STEGGALL (Swan Hill) - On a point of involves injecting a poison into carrots and dicing order, Mr Speaker, I direct your attention to the fact the carrots in front of burrow entrances for the that the House is now debating a Bill allegedly rabbits to consume. introduced by the government yet no member of the government is present in the Chamber. Another important trend is the community concern Consequently I would seek to move: for flora and fauna. With increased urbalusation native fauna is under threat from such poisons and That the debate be now adjourned. baits. Both 1080 and pindone carrot bait are non-species specific so that while they may get rid of The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable rabbits they have a similar effect on bandicoots, member would be in order to raise a point of order, wallabies and other native fauna. Given the but he cannot then proceed to move a motion while increasing community concern about the another member has the call. If the honourable environment, more so now than in previous periods member wishes to raise a point of order, he should of our history, that is a real concern. Also, with do so. increasing urbanisation, there is the real prospect of young children consuming these attractive diced Mr STEGGALL - I shall give way to my poisoned carrots which are laid in their path. colleague, the honourable member for Warrandyte, to take the appropriate action. The third trend is the concern of the community about privacy, protection of landowners' rights, and government interference in the day-to-day livelihoods of citizens. As I will mention in a VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

Tuesday. 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 53 moment, that has ramifications when one considers vermin thereon, or in order to ascertain whether any the powers proposed in the Bill for land inspection noxious weeds are growing or are on such land. officers. Clause 4 of the Bill substantially changes those In any debate on a Bill such as this honourable powers. The powers of entry of inspection officers members must take account of community trends are the main cause of concern for members of the and must ensure that they are suitably provided for opposition, and I look forward to hearing the and protected. Honourable members must ensure Minister's commitments regarding those provisions. that the Bill does not cause major conflicts within the community. Clause 5 deals with regulation-making powers, and the opposition is concerned about their As I mentioned a moment ago, 1080 is an ingestive comprehensiveness. Clause 44 of the principal Act poison that affects the internal systems of rabbits. It lists a limited number of regulations including: is almost like a corrosive poison. Pindone carrot bait is relatively new and is effective because carrots The Governor in Council may as to the whole or any retain moisture and do not rot at the same rate as part of Victoria make regulations for or with respect other vegetables. The disadvantages with 1080 to- poison and Pindone carrot bait is that they are (a) the payment of bonuses for the destruction of non-species specific in their applications. vermin and the amounts of such bonuses; Under the heading "Powers of entry" clause 4 states: (ab) the kinds of live animal or bird declared to be vermin which may be kept for research or other Section 31 of the Vermin and Noxious Weeds Act 1958 purposes and the terms and conditions upon is amended as follows - which they may be kept; (a) after "31." insert "(1)"; Additional regulation-making powers included in clause 5 of the Bill are extremely comprehensive (b) at the end of the section insert- additions to the list. They include the use of goods "(2) An authorised officer may enter land (whether and equipment in connection with the distribution enclosed or not) and may make any searches or use of baits, substances and concentrations of or inspections that the officer considers substances baits mayor may not contain, the kinds necessary to ascertain whether regulations of baits that mayor may not be used for destroying made under section 44 (l)(ac) are being or controlling specified pest animals, the safety of complied with.". the public in connection with distribution, use and effects of baits, and the list goes on. The Bill changes As part of a responsible opposition, members of the the coverage of the principal Act. opposition must examine closely any increase in powers to public servants which, in this case, is the Clause 5 (2) states: right of inspection officers to enter private property. After section 44 (2) of the Vermin and Noxious Weeds In the past Department of Labour inspectors have on Act 1958 insert - occasion acted beyond their authority and powers and honourable members must be cautious in "(3) The regulations - granting increased powers to inspection officers of (a) may impose duties or confer powers on any the Department of Conservation and Environment. person; The opposition has serious concerns about clause 4 and calls on the government to give an assurance (b) may leave anything to be determined or proved that the relevant officers will be required to take due by any person. cognisance of the rights of property owners. That has a powerful effect, and I ask the Minister to explain the implication of that provision. I assume Clause 31 of the Vermin and Noxious Weeds Act "any person" refers to a land inspection officer, but I 1985 states: want an assurance from the Minister that that is the case. When I say the Minister, I mean the Minister Any authorised officer may enter upon any land representing the Minister for Conservation and (whether enclosed or not) in order to ascertain whether Environment in another place. any vermin are on such land and may search for VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

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Having outlined those concerns, I indicate that the Mr Speaker, I direct your attention to clause 3 which opposition will not seek to oppose the Bill. However, gives the definition for "pest animal". As the when it is debated in the other place the opposition Companion Animals Bill is also on the Notice Paper will move to insert the standard regulation I wonder whether there is a relationship between disallowance provision because it has genuine that definition and provisions contained in the concerns about the government's potential misuse of Companion Animals Bill. regulations. The Vermin and Noxious Weeds (Poison Baits) Bill Mr STEGGALL (Swan Hill) - The performance provides the power to identify any type of animal of the government in this place is absolutely and other than those that are protected by the Wildlife utterly disgusting. The government has made a song Act or the Flora and Fauna Guarantee Act as a pest and dance about its concepts and policies in this animal. area, but it has introduced this Bill with no-one in the Chamber to debate and support it other than the Clause 4 provides for powers of entry, which will Attorney-General, and all honourable members extend the power to enter properties for inspection know he has no interest whatsoever in the Bill or the by an authorised officer. It states: matter it deals with. In those circumstances one wonders whether it is worth it. Do backbench An authorised officer may enter land (whether members of the Labor Party have any desire to join enclosed or not) and may make any searches or in debate in this place? One wonders why we are inspections that the officer considers necessary to here and what shape the Labor Party really is in. ascertain whether regulations made under section Honourable members are watching a government 44(l)(ac) are being complied with. that is disintegrating; its members are devoid of ideas and they totally ignore Parliament. This is a strong power which appears to be innocuous but if a Bill gave a policeman such The government should be utterly ashamed of itself. powers, without warrant, to walk in and make For some time we have heard only one-sided investigations there would be an uproar. Civil debates on legislation, policies and on the direction libertarians would be jumping up and down. in which the government is moving. Sometimes However, because this provision will apply mainly Ministers respond and sometimes they do not. It is to country people there will be no such response shameful that the government is represented only by from those on the government side. four honourable members Sitting on the front bench. Regulation-making powers are an important part of The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable the Bill. The further regulation-making powers are member for Swan Hill has made his point. I suggest listed in clause 5. Subsection (2) says: that he return to the Bill before the House. After section 44(2) of the Vermin and Noxious Weeds Mr STEGGALL - I agree. Would it be in order Act 1958 insert - for there to be a Minister at the table to whom I can "(3) the regulations- address my comments? Is that a fair request? (a) may impose duties or confer powers on any The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable person ... member for Swan Hill, who is speaking to It would be good to have an explanation of the type government members, has been in this House for of powers that the clause provides. Paragraph (b) long enough to know that he should address his states: remarks to the Chair. I suggest that he address himself also to the Bill before the House. may leave anything to be determined or approved by any person. Mr STEGGALL - Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think you get my drift. Mr Speaker, I ask you to protect the interests of members of Parliament and ensure that the The Vermin and Noxious Weeds (Poison Baits) Bill government produces, responds to, and defends its is small but it makes changes to the Act that the legislation. Somewhere along the line we must get government should explain and that members of the some answers to these questions otherwise government backbench should debate. Someone Parliament will be let down badly. Tonight the should be here to answer our questions. ADJOURNMENT

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 55

government has proved beyond doubt that it has no ADJOURNMENT interest in its legislation. Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) - 1 move: The other area I wish to address is the problem that country Victoria is experiencing in its endeavours to That the House do now adjourn. eradicate vermin that is multiplying at enormous rates, particularly in north west Victoria. There has Police prosecutions been an enormous downturn in the rural economy and as a result people have limited capacities to Mr E. R. SMITH (Glen Waverley) -I raise for carry out control programs. Those in the north west the attention of the Premier a matter which concerns are working closely in conjunction with officers from the inaccuracy of a claim made last week by the the Department of Conservation and Environment honourable member for Bundoora that the to control vermin. The departmental officers have government has never interfered with police little chance of carrying out their roles and accepting prosecutions. 1 ask the Premier to investigate the the responsibility of the government for public land unauthorised and improper undertaking offered by because the vermin is multiplying at such an extent a senior officer of the Attorney-General's that the budget is unable to provide sufficient funds Department which sought the then Director of to control it. Public Prosecutions to ask the police to drop a prosecution with the threat that the Director of I shall be interested to see whether any member of Public Prosecutions would issue a nolle prosequi. the government will show any concern and defend After years of police work, villains are getting off or promote the Bill. It would be good if someone scot-free, so it is wasted time. answered the questions 1 have raised as well as those of the honourable member for Warrandyte I have a copy of a police file memorandum setting and any honourable member who follows us. It is out circumstances which clearly indicate it was State important for the government to answer questions government interference, under the honourable on legislation and face a little scrutiny. member for Bundoora as Attorney-General, that sabotaged police prosecutions of commercial fraud. Perhaps if the people of Victoria understood how This concerns the North Deborah matter. A meeting poorly they are served by the government and how was called by Mr John Phillips, the then Director of it behaves in its own Parliament they might demand Public Prosecutions, on 21 November 1983 at 500 some accountability from those who govern and Bourke Street and present were Mr Phillips, the introduce changes to the law. It is not much that we Chief Commissioner Mr Miller, Detective Chief ask tonight. The government has brought in changes Inspector Brown, Mr Frank Della, Senior Sergeant to the law that will give a number of powers, some Brocker and Senior Detective Campbell. The of them unclear, to people who have an effect on memorandum is signed by Senior Detective many others throughout Victoria. Campbell.

I hope and expect that before this night is out I will read part of this into Hansard because this is someone from the government will properly explain the essence of the case: what it is trying to do with the legislation, why it is there and the limit of the powers contained in it. I do Mr Phillips went on to speak of the police brief not believe that is too much for me as the prepared by Brocker and myself against Maskiell, honourable member for Swan Hill to ask of the Csidei and Llewellyn-Dance. He said he had read the government. Many people in my electorate, from brief and found it to be viable, but went on to say that Robinvale to Inglewood, will have to put up with the matter had gone beyond redemption because a the changes this legislation will bring. It is only fair responsible officer of the State of Victoria, under official that this Chamber supplies the answers to the letterheads, had given a written undertaking to the questions we have raised tonight. That is not much three accused that proceedings against them would be to ask. discontinued, and that in the light of this, if there were fresh charges laid, they would cause the government a Debate adjourned on motion of Mr KENNAN great deal of difficulty and embarrassment. .. I said that (Attorney-General). their author had no right to take the action of sending the letters ... Mr Phillips conceded that these letters may Debate adjourned until next day. not have had a sound legal basis, but because they had an official origin, they still presented a problem ... If we ADJOURNMENT

56 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992

chose to issue fresh informations and if the matter Liquefied petroleum gas resulted in committals for trial, he would have to then exercise his power as DPP to enter a nolle prosequi. Mr Mr JASPER (Murray Valley) - I raise a matter Miller then commented that if that was the situation, for the attention of the Minister for Consumer there didn't seem to be much point in our going away Affairs in another place who I assume is the Minister and thinking about it. responsible for prices and I trust that the Minister at the table, the Minister for Labour, will take note of Senior Sergeant Brocker and I agreed and told Mr the comments I make and bring them to his Phillips that if this was going to be his ultimate attention. I refer to the enormous discrepancy in the attitude, we could tell him on the spot that we would price of liquefied petroleum gas being provided to have to let the matter rest. Mc Phillips, in addition to users in metropolitan Melbourne compared with declaring the brief to be viable, had described it as an those in country Victoria. excellent brief and complimented us on the quality of its preparation. Over a long period I have highlighted the problems of country people with the difference in the price of Mr Campbell goes on: petrol. The discrepancy in the price of LPG is even worse. Generally people in metropolitan Melbourne I expressed my disgust at the way this matter was can buy LPG for motor vehicles for less than 20 cents disposed of in a corridor conference. Mr Phillips agreed a litre whereas users of LPG in country Victoria pay that it was most unsatisfactory. I made the point that more than 30 cents a litre. Country Victorians are with the abandonment of these prosecutions, the paying 50 per cent more for LPG than people in shareholders who had been the victims of the crimes metropolitan Melbourne. This is an outrageous effectively lost all hope of ever getting anything back. situation that must be addressed.

The prosecutor, Mc Willee, who previously had The Minister for Consumer Affairs and the expressed great confidence in the brief... suddenly government have spoken about equality and rights found it convenient to write the matter off. and seeing that people achieve justice, or what they call social justice, and I believe this falls into that Mc Phillips seemed apologetic about the outcome, but category and must be addressed immediately by the made the observation that loyalty required us to take government. Action must be taken to ensure a the matter no further. uniform gas price for all Victorians.

The meeting closed at about 4.40 p.m., having started The Prices Surveillance Authority should be asked to late due to Mr Miller being delayed. investigate not only the general price of LPG but also the discrepancy in the prices that people pay in Senior Sergeant Brocker and I discussed the matter later country Victoria compared to metropolitan - both quite dissatisfied with the situation and we Melbourne. The House is aware that there is no tax both feel that the reasons advanced by Mr Phillips were on liquefied petroleum gas. Huge taxes are imposed unsatisfactory. We resolved that it was dearly on petrol not only at a Federal level but also by the inappropriate in the face of a guaranteed nolle State government and that amounts to more than 50 prosequi, to re-open the case. We would simply be per cent of the cost of every litre of petrol. However, flushing more public money down the sewer and could no tax is charged on LPG nor on the kits for the well end up being severely criticised for it. installation in or conversion of motor vehicles to LPG use. This is a matter that goes to the heart of the Westminster system. It is an interference with the There is encouragement by government, particularly separation of powers between the government and the Federal government, for people to consider the police. It was as a result of the Fitzgerald Royal converting their vehicles to use liquefied petroleum Commission in Queensland and it is a matter that gas. If the great discrepancy in pricing continues this government has said it has not interfered with. there will be no encouragement for people in The letter I have here clearly shows that this matter country areas to consider using LPG. This goes to the heart -- outrageous situation is not accepted by country people and should no longer be accepted by a The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable responsible government. member's time has expired. ADJOURNMENT

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 57

I ask the Minister for Labour, who is at the table, to Another possibility that I believe has been pursued bring this matter to the attention of the responsible in theory is the creation of a chair in rural health. Minister in another place, and for that Minister to There are special problems in providing appropriate take it on as an urgent matter for the government to health services in rural communities in Victoria. address, both in its own right and through the Prices There is a lack of research in this area and Surveillance Authority, to achieve a uniform price universities could create a focus for the development and ensure there is no longer manipulation of of rural health, not just in Gippsland but also in pricing by producers and distributors against the other parts of rural Victoria, by providing an interests of country Victoria. Let us have justice for academic focus. The necessary funds and research people in country Victoria. effort would then be prOVided.

Tertiary education in country Victoria One of the most attractive of all possibilities in the Latrobe Valley would be to create a new chair in Mr HAMILTON (Morwell) - I raise a matter for public sector management. the attention of the Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training in his role A problem often raised is the lack of management as the Minister responsible for higher education in skills within the public sector in the Latrobe Valley. Victoria. The need exists for an academic focus on the problem, with research into and the teaching of Honourable members will be aware of a number of appropriate management skills. major changes in the structure of tertiary education in Victoria, particularly the amalgamation with I was disappointed to hear the chief general universities of a number of colleges of advanced manager of the State Electricity Commission (SEC) education. In the Latrobe Valley the amalgamation in the valley admit that the only reason he decided of Monash University with the former Gippsland to sell off certain parts of the SEC's business was a Institute of Advanced Education has caused concem lack of appropriate management skills and expertise. for local people because the tertiary identity of the That admission clearly shows the need for an local college has been reduced. academic focus on research and teaching in the area.

It appears it is now time for the government to The Minister should take note of the review the process of amalgamation to ensure that recommendations of the review of the newly the local identities of newly amalgamated campuses amalgamated colleges and create an academic focus is maintained. The fundamental way of achieving in the local community by ensuring that our this in the university structure is to create chairs in universities devote some of their research and country colleges in particular and, it is hoped, new professorial chairs to solving the problems facing areas. Victoria's rural areas.

A local focus could be directed at the academic Community Services Victoria achievement of the new Monash University college in Gippsland by creating a number of chairs. A Mr JOHN (Bendigo East) - The matter I direct to number of obvious possibilities should be the attention of the Minister for Commtmity Services considered, but the university would need concerns child abuse and child protection. Recent encouragement from the government. disturbing and tragic events in Victoria have focused attention on the serious defects in the State's child In view of the importance of forests and forest protection services and the need for the government product industries in the Latrobe Valley, and of the to do more than it has been doing to adequately Maryvale mill of Australian Paper Manufacturers, it protect our children. is logical to create a chair in forest ecology, forest management or forest product value-added Regardless of whether they are in State child-care or industries. There are some great possibilities for private child-care Victorian children are entitled to research and for the achievement of academic be properly cared for and protected. It is not excellence by carrying out that work in the country. appropriate for me to comment on individual cases It would be a great fillip to not only the local where investigations are continuing, charges have community but also to the industry. been laid or prosecutions are under way. Nevertheless recent incidents at the Peninsula Child-Care Centre and the government's decision to ADJOURNMENT

58 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992 deregister the centre following serious allegations of Prosthetic workshop for Geelong the sexual abuse of children are matters that concern all members of the House, regardless of political Mr SHELL (Geelong) - The matter I raise for the affilia tions. attention of the Minister for Health --

Those and other disturbing allegations of child Mr Richardson interjected. abuse over the past few months clearly show that the government's child protection services are less The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable than adequate. More than that, they are sloppy, ad member for Forest Hill is out of order. hoc, inefficient and do not have the confidence of the public. Mr SHELL - I am glad to see that the honourable member for Forest Hill is in the According to the government's recently Chamber and that he is wearing his flower. commissioned report on public attitudes, the Reark report, only 11 per cent of Victorians have any The matter I raise for the attention of the Minister for confidence in Community Services Victoria's ability Health relates to the provision of a prosthetic to adequately protect our children. workshop in Geelong and particularly at the Grace McKellar Centre for Rehabilitation and Extended Little can be done about the abuse of children after Care. The current situation is that patients who need the event. Where allegations have been made about artificial limbs fitted to their bodies need to receive the sexual penetration of a three-year-old child, the an assessment, measurement and fitting from people offender is unlikely to be convicted - and I shall say who must come from outside Geelong, mainly from no more than that. Ballarat and Melbourne. That involves several trips by those people and it also means additional time To ensure the adequate protection of Victorian that patients must spend waiting to be fitted. children the government must shift its emphasis to the establishment and registration of child-care I understand the regional office of Health centres rather than attempting to take action after Department Victoria is examining this problem in offences have been committed. The government order to speed up the service for the patients, most must ensure that adequate records are kept of child of whom reside at the Grace McKellar Centre, and abuse cases - of the charges laid, the convictions make it easier for the centre to meet its budget gained, and other outcomes. commitments. However, over and above all that, it is a service that requires to be located in Geelong, In answer to a question on notice I asked late last serviced from Geelong and serviced by Geelong year, the Minister admitted that no records were people. I ask that the Minister for Health pay kept of successful prosecutions of the perpetrators of attention to those remarks. child abuse. That no such records are kept is appalling. Caulfield General Medical Centre

We must ensure that no-one with a police record of Mr TANNER (Caulfield) - I raise a matter for child abuse is employed in this area. We need better the attention of the Minister for Community Services checks on proprietors and direct care workers. There in her capacity as the representative in this place of must be adequate police checks of people working the Minister for Health. Unlike the honourable directly with young children in child-care. member for Geelong, who was too embarrassed on Child-care centres will attract paedophiles. behalf of the government to acknowledge the fact, I note that the Minister for Community Services has People with no police record have no cause to not bothered to put in an appearance for the complain. In most cases I would always back the adjournment debate tOnight even though this is the civil liberties argument, but where young children first time Parliament has met since 26 November last are concerned there is no option: they must be the year. first priority. The department must improve its screening procedures, regulations and guidelines In fact, it ought to be placed on the record that only and must administer them properly. Our young one government Minister has bothered to put in an children are too important for us to neglect this appearance tonight despite the fact that Parliament aspect. has not met for four months. That just shows the contempt this government has for Parliament. In ADJOURNMENT

Tuesday, 17 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 59 fact, it places further emphasis on the contempt that government to deal with the effects of the the government showed in the debate on the application by it of the CAM/SAM funding formula previous Bill, when at one stage not one Minister for the provision of public nursing beds at the Alfred was present for the debate. group of hospitals and with the acute beds situation at the hospital if further funding restrictions are The matter I raise with the Minister for Community imposed on the Caulfield campus. Services is important and urgent. I have for presentation to Parliament a petition Mr MICALLEF (Springvale) - On a point of signed by nearly 4000 people. It is asked that order, Mr Speaker, the honourable member has Parliament should take note of the pressing need raised two issues. He is now on the second issue, and responsibility of the Alfred board to consult and he is allowed to raise only one issue in the with the Caulfield community and to prepare a plan adjournment debate. of development for the Caulfield centre.

The SPEAKER - Order! I must admit that I was It is important that the Minister for Health impress considering the same matter. However, I shall accept upon the Alfred group of hospitals board of the earlier comments of the honourable member for management that a ten-year plan of development for Caulfield as an unusually long preamble and will the hospital must be produced so that the Caulfield not uphold the pOint of order. community - despite the ineptitude, carelessness and recklessness of the government during the past Mr TANNER (Caulfield) - Thank you, ten years - will retain adequate services at the Mr Speaker. The comments of the honourable campus. member for Springvale emphasise his embarrassment at this government's performance. I ask the Minister for Community Services - who has not even bothered to put in an appearance here The matter I raise with the Minister for Community tonight despite the fact that Parliament has not sat Services, which I ask her to take up with the since last November - to consult with the Minister Minister for Health, is the concern in the Caulfield for Health, and to stress to her that the board of community at the future of the Caulfield General management at Caulfield should undertake this Medical Centre. For the benefit of honourable action. members who are unaware of the matter, the Royal Southern Memorial Hospital and the Caulfield Pub tab at Welshpool Hotel Hospital have been amalgamated under the Alfred group of hospitals. Mr WALLACE (Gippsland South) - My concern is directed to the Minister for Sport and Recreation. I The amalgamation is unpopular in Caulfield draw his attention to a problem at the Welshpool because the community is concerned about the Hotel regarding Pubtab. For a number of years the provision of health services. Recently hundreds licensees have approached the Totalizator Agency attended a public meeting which resolved that the Board for permission to operate a Pubtab but on government and the Alfred group of hospitals board each occasion they have been told that the licence is of management should provide a ten-year unwarranted and that the numbers do not justify a development plan for the Caulfield campus of that licence. For a number of years the attention of the group. Ministry and the TAB has been drawn to the fact that the Welshpool Hotel is located on the South Mr Micallef interjected. Gippsland Highway adjacent to the departure point of the ferry to Tasmania. Many passengers look for a Mr TANNER - The honourable member for Pub tab facility at the hotel. Springvale says, 'Who is going to pay for it?" The government should pay for it! The government has Many small hotels have a problem because the wasted so much money that, even if it finds legislation provides that a separate entrance must be difficulty in paying, it should not be excused from constructed to the Pubtab facility in any hotel but the responsibility of providing an adequate health that is not a problem at Welshpool. facility for the Caulfield community. I also draw to the Minister's attention that this area The Caulfield community is concerned about the has developed in recent years but the nearest future of the hospital's services and calls on the licences are located 30 kilometres away in one ADJOURNMENT

60 ASSEMBLY Tuesday, 17 March 1992 direction and 25 kilometres away in the other. The Responses area is isolated and the needs of the constituents should be addressed. I hope the Minister will Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and address the problem in consultation with the TAB. Recreation) - The honourable member for Gippsland South raised the issue of the Totalizator Freeway reservation Agency Board. When the Pub tab legislation was introduced it was stated that the facilities would not Mr THOMSON (Pascoe Vale) - The matter I be installed in bars where people were drinking; raise for the attention of the Minister for Planning there would have to be separate doorways. That has and Housing, through the Minister at the table, the been the norm. Problems are not occurring in the Minister for Labour, is the application by the City of city because of the normal TAB agencies and Essendon which has been before the Minister for Pubtabs. some time for a planning amendment known as LIB. This amendment would delete what is known as the However, in some of the small towns where the local Strathmore Escarpment Freeway Reservation, which publican is prepared to provide TAB facilities, the can best be described as the Tullamarine Freeway publican does not receive the custom from the TAB shortcut across the north-eastern boundary of to pay for the new entrance or room that is required. Essendon airport. The demand has been to have a separate entrance or doorway from the bar for the TAB. Because of that I strongly support the proposal by the City of requirement people in the small towns are not being Essendon for the deletion of the reservation. I have given that service. no doubt the freeway will never be built. It would mean devastation for many homes and the quality of In view of the changing circumstances over the life for all those in the Moonee Ponds Creek valley, years, I presume some of the hotels will have particularly those living in Strathmore Heights. gaming machines in the bars. It is time that the government altered its previous position of stating While there is an argument for providing additional that there must be a separate entrance from the bar Tullamarine Freeway capacity, that should not be in small country towns. I shall give consideration to done in isolation. The bottleneck at Flemington Road those circumstances of having a TAB in bars with should be remedied first. There are other better gaming machines. That is commonsense. options that would provide additional Tullamarine Freeway capacity. Mr POPE (Minister for Labour) - Matters have been raised by the honourable members for Glen Given that the freeway will never be built, it has Waverley, Murray Valley, Morwell, Bendigo East, been a cruel and unusual punishment for those Geelong, Caulfield and Pascoe Vale for the attention residents living in the shadow of the freeway of the Attorney-General, the Minister for Consumer reservation to have the prospect of what will happen Affairs, the Minister for Employment, to the reservation continually hanging over their Post-Secondary Education and Training, the heads. VIC ROADS, the City of Essendon and others Minister for Community Services, the Minister for have put forward better options. This matter should Health and the Minister for Planning and Housing. I no longer be subject to procrastination. I urge the shall direct those matters to the attention of the Minister, who has the benefit of a report by an Ministers. independent panel recommending that the reservation be deleted, to take immediate action and Motion agreed to. respond to the application by council by deleting the reservation. House adjourned 10.34 p.m. OPERATION OF LIFT - LAW PRINTER

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 61

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 borrowings, the investments we make in the provision of infrastructure in this commwuty. It is the investment that the government and previous State and Federal governments make in the provision of schools, roads, hospitals, police stations The SPEAKER (Hon. Ken Coghill) took the chair at and kindergartens for the community. That is why 10.34 a.m. and read the prayer. we borrow; we borrow in order to invest in current living standards and to provide for future living OPERATION OF LIFT - LAW PRINTER standards.

The SPEAKER - Order! I wish to make two Honourable members interjecting. small announcements. Firstly, the lift at the rear of the building is presently out of order and attempts Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - It is quite clear that by any are being made to repair it. I advise the House that a standard growth in this country historically and contract has been let for a major overhaul, which internationally has always been associated with will occur during the winter recess. substantial periods of public investment.

A major mechanical problem has occurred at the The SPEAKER - Order! There are far too many Law Printer, which may delay the production of interjections during the course of the Treasurer's certain documentation during the day. reply. If the Leader of the National Party wishes to ask a question he should await his opportunity. If he persists in interjecting he may not get that QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE opportunity. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - There is a strong and STATE DEBT substantial case to be made for a high level of public and private investment in the public infrastructure Mr KENNETf (Leader of the Opposition) - I in this State and this country. This case is accepted direct my question to the Treasurer and I refer to his by all except a few on the opposite side of the House, and this morning it was conceded on the comments yesterday that he has a substantial and back page of the Australian Financial Review. The radical plan to cut State debt. Will the Treasurer now inform Parliament of the details of this so-called paper made an excellent case for the argument that unless Australia invests substantially in plan or is it just more government rhetoric? infrastructure over the next few years, similar to the way in which countries with which it is competing Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - Thank you for do, Australia will fall badly behind. We must make the question. In June last year, the Premier set out in that investment. considerable detail the way in which Victoria would address the delivery of services in this State and Honourable members interjecting. bring the management of debt under the very best control that we can offer. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - The investment must be of Honourable members interjecting. sufficient size to provide for future growth in the economy. That is number one. The second aspect of debt is the capacity of the government or private Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - A number of things enterprise to service that debt. The size of the debt is should be recognised about the debt argument and I relevant to the capacity of the individual, company welcome the opportunity to talk about it. By or government to service that debt. historical standards the debt in Victoria is about half of what it was in the 1960s. Mr W. D. McGrath interjected. Honourable members interjecting. The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the Deputy Leader of the National Party and I will not warn him Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - I repeat the historical data. again. I will take the appropriate action if necessary. Victoria's debt is currently half of what it was in the He is well aware of Standing Orders and the 196Os. There are two issues relating to debt. The practices of the House. I ask him to remain silent. matter is important, and I welcome the opportunity of speaking about it in the House. Firstly, debt is QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

62 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992

Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - The level of investment in outstanding board. In the next week or so we will be infrastructure must be sufficient to ensure that we introdUCing into the House a Bill for the guarantee growth and proper standards of service establishment of Treasury Corporation of Victoria provision for the future. Against that we need to which you, the opposition, will support. balance the capacity of the borrowing organisation - be it individual, company, State or The second part of the strategy is a substantial country - to service and manage the debt reduction in the State debt and we will deliver on adequately. that. Those two parts of the debt management strategy are firmly in place. On the one hand the Honourable members interjecting. establishment of a central borrowing agency and on the other hand -- Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - It was in recognition of that fact that the government last year made the June Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - My point of statement, which set out clearly and in great detail order concerns the question of relevance. The the government's commitment to the management question was clear; it asked the Treasurer whether of debt on one hand and the reduction of debt on the he would disclose to the House the announcement other hand. he made about debt reduction and debt assumption. He has now taken 9 minutes to tell us again that it is We have in place a detailed proposal to manage a secret. debt. One of the first commitments was to reduce spending in the public sector by $600 million and we Mr CRABB (Minister for Tourism) - The delivered that in the Budget. honourable member for Brighton was not listening to the question. The question actually was: would Honourable members interjecting. the Treasurer detail his so-called plans. Those are the words that were used. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - You said that it could not be done but we delivered it. Honourable members interjecting.

Honourable members interjecting. The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Minister to pause while the House comes to order. The The SPEAKER - Order! The House will come to honourable member for Syndal should remain silent. order. I ask the Minister for Finance and honourable members on my left to remain silent. I particularly Mr CRABB - Asking a Minister to detail his ask the honourable members for Syndal and plans, even if they were called "so-called" plans, is Portland to remain silent. usually the content of a dorothy dix question. If there is some cosy arrangement between the Leader Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - We made the commitment of the Opposition and the Treasurer whereby the and we delivered on it. We were prepared to take Leader of the OppOSition asks the Treasurer action in a way that few other governments have questions to which he would like to get answers, been prepared to take action. No government in that is not my business nor the House's business. Australia has been prepared to do what we have The fact is the question that was asked was whether been prepared to do, and that is to spell out our the Treasurer would detail the plans, and he is objectives over the next three years and to stand by detailing them. them. We have delivered on that. The SPEAKER - Order! There is no point of Other parts of the package included the order. However, I ask the Treasurer to round off in establishment of a central borrowing agency. The view of the length of his reply. Treasury Corporation of Victoria, bringing together VicFin and the Victorian Development Fund, has Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - The point become operational. We are consolidating all public remains that with the management of debt we have sector debt within that and already the returns are put in place the Treasury Corporation of Victoria, flowing to us. and appropriate legislation, which will be supported by the oppOSition, will be introduced in the House We have put together a strong board of management this session. The second point is that we have a plan of Treasury Corporation of Victoria, and it is widely for substantial reduction of the size of Victoria's acknowledged in financial circles as being an debt. I contrast the government's commitment to QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 63 debt management spelt out clearly in the June Honourable members interjecting. statement with the Liberal Party's apology for a debt management strategy which runs to all of 100 Mr McNAMARA - Obviously at some risk I ask lines - and there are some beauties in this, some the Treasurer: given that the Bayside Project will not real top performers. proceed in its promised form, will he advise the House of the State's financial exposure to the The SPEAKER - Order! I have asked the development and whether it is a fact that taxpayers Treasurer to round off his reply. I do not believe it is stand to lose more than $50 million? appropriate for him to introduce fresh material at this stage. I ask him to complete his reply. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - This is another example of an opposition bereft of ideas. It does not Mr A. J. SHEEHAN -It is really interesting to have a clue, not one substantial clue, about the way compare and I invite the opposition to participate in forward, whether it is the Bayside Project, the this debate in any forum, and particularly in this Melbourne Cricket Ground or the National Tennis one. Compared with our offering the opposition Centre - you name it. All you can do is criticise and comes up with 100 lines included in which it talks criticise! about-- What Victoria needs is a government that is Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool) -On a point prepared to make a substantial investment in the of order, I put to you, Mr Speaker, that the Treasurer future of the State, and we are prepared to do that. is now abusing your control of this House. He has been speaking for thirteen and a half minutes. He is Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National defying your ruling by now debating the issue and I Party) - On the question of relevance, Mr Speaker, I suggest, Sir, that you sit him down. ask you to bring the Treasurer back to the point of the question, which was addressed to the issue of The SPEAKER - Order! I do not uphold the financial accountability, about which we have just point of order at this stage, but I ask the Treasurer to had a lecture from the Treasurer for the past 15 quickly round off his reply. minutes. The question was whether the Treasurer could advise the House about the specific matter I Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - To conclude raised. my remarks, a number of things should be made clear. Firstly, this government has a very clear Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, strategy of reducing and managing State debt; and Post-Secondary Education and Training) - On the we are prepared to argue that in any forum. point of order, Mr Speaker, the Leader of the --

It is also very clear that the opposition has nothing Honourable members interjecting. to offer. Furthermore - and I will conclude with these remarks - it is well understood in the The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the Leader of the community that the opposition has nothing to offer, House to pause until the House comes to order. which was said better than I could say it by Mr David Edwards, who said that the coalition is not Mr McNamara interjected. big on solutions and that it would like the State to disintegrate -- The SPEAKER - Order! If the Leader of the National Party wishes his point of order to be dealt Honourable members interjecting. with, I suggest he remain silent.

The SPEAKER - Order! I have pointed out to Mr ROPER - The Leader of the National Party the Treasurer that it was appropriate that he asked his question, and the Treasurer is responding conclude his reply. I now call the next question. very clearly by making a point that needs to be made, which is that the opposition constantly BAYSIDE PROJECT knocks any project at all.

Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National If the Treasurer dealt only with that issue he would Party) - I address my question to the Treasurer - eventually be out of order; but he is making some introductory remarks which he is putting in the context of the answer he is going to give. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

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You have ruled in the past, Mr Speaker, that a COODE ISLAND CHEMICALS Minister can answer a question as he or she sees fit STORAGE REVIEW so long as a Minister does not debate the matter and the issues raised are relevant. Mr COLE (Melbourne) - Will the Premier advise the House of the progress being made on the review The issue of the opposition's constant knocking of into the Coode Island facility? any project whatsoever is certainly relevant so far as the introduction to the Treasurer's answer is Ms KIRNER (Premier) - The Coode Island concerned. review panel, chaired by John Landy, is due to make recommendations at the end of this month. As Mr Sandon interjected. people in this House and the Victorian community know, the petrochemical industry is one of the The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the Minister for industries set to grow in Victoria; that was made Police and Emergency Services. He is well aware of clear this morning by the accounts figures, if one the Standing Orders of the House, and he should cared to read them. It is an industry geared for remain silent. upturn as the economy improves.

At this stage of the Treasurer's reply I do not uphold In December the panel advised the government on the point of order, but I suggest to him that he make the safety measures that should be taken relevant to no further introductory remarks and that he come the existing facility. That advice has been directly to the point of the question. progressively implemented and a regular report is presented to the government by the Minister Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - To return to responsible in this area, namely, the Minister for what I was saying: the opposition has a Labour. mentality -- The longer term issues are currently being examined Honourable members interjecting. by the panel. This issue is probably one of the most Significant that Victoria has ever had to examine and The SPEAKER -Order! I have indicated to the is one of the most difficult processes that the State Treasurer that he should come directly to the point has ever had to work through. of the question. If he is unable to do so, I shall call the next question. When the government receives those recommendations at the end of this month the work Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - The point that should be that the panel has done - and the panel is made is that the government is prepared to invest in representative of a cross-section of the Significant major projects to ensure the future community -will be a clear recommendation on growth and development of this State. That is quite the best practice available in the world in contrary to the position of the opposition - a management of chemical storage facilities. The position spelled out quite clearly by Mr Edwards, government will implement those Executive Director, Victorian Chambers of recommendations; there will be a public report, a Commerce and Industry, who said that the public response, and then implementation. opposition is big on solutions for the State's economic problems -- It has been absolutely crucial for the safety of the community and for the chemical industry to The SPEAKER - Order! I am having some undertake that thorough examination. The review difficulty relating the Treasurer's remarks to the panel has employed expert consultants to obtain the question asked. I ask him to relate his remarks to the best advice on technical and environmental matters; question. as you, Mr Speaker, know from experience in your electorate, the panel has had extensive consultation Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - It is important that the with local communities. government declare its commitment to investment in Victoria and to stand by those commitments to When the panel advises the government on whether ensure that there is growth in this State. it is preferable to establish a world class best practice facility at Coode Island or in another location, that will be done on the best knowledge base available - and indeed, on a vast knowledge base. In its work QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 65 the panel is breaking new ground in the area of deserves an opposition that has a policy, that has chemical storage. When it sought to brief the more than a one-liner and on this issue at least, opposition on this matter imagine the panel's when the work is being done by an independent surprise when there was absolute silence from the panel, this community deserves an opposition that opposition. The opposition is not interested in being listens and responds. The panel is doing the work briefed by the panel on this issue and Mr Green, in and the government will do the work. This the Upper House, who made the one-liner statement community deserves better than an opposition that on what we should do with Coode Island. says the political headlines are all that matter and the answer to which the community is entitled is Mr Kennett - Who? dumped.

Ms KIRNER - You know Mr Green, the man EMERGENCY TEACHERS who really represents the environment in the Upper House - the Honourable Mark Birrell, the man who Mr HA YW ARD (Prahran) - I refer the Minister in a one-liner said Coode Island should be removed. for School Education to the Treasurer's statement that $20 million will be saved in the allocation for At the end of this month this community will have emergency teachers. to make a decision about where the chemical facilities on Coode Island should go. The opposition Honourable members interjecting. does not want to be briefed on the work the panel is doing. As late as this morning the panel had still not Mr HAYWARD - This is a very specific matter. had a response from the Leader of the OppOSition or Will the Minister give the House an assurance that the Honourable Mark Birrell to accept the panel's this figure will be achieved? invitation to a briefing. Mr POPE (Minister for School Education) - I Mr DELZOPPO (Narracan) - On a point of thank the honourable member for allowing me to order, Mr Speaker, I suggest that the Premier, in have a question before the end of today's question referring to the opposition, is debating the question. time. I was actually No. 2 on the list but I had doubts She is in breach of Standing Order No. 127 and I ask whether I would get up. you to bring her back to order. As the honourable member for Prahran well knows The SPEAKER - Order! I did carefully consider this matter was covered last Friday, so it is now that point in the course of the Premier's reply. The about five days down the track and he has finally Premier has been proViding information. There is no caught up with some of the media attention from point of order. last week.

Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I intend to attempt to Last week tlle Treasurer said that efficiencies are get a bipartisan response on one of the most being brought about in delivering the Budget. He important decisions this State will make. I hope the mentioned today that $600 million worth of savings Leader of the Opposition and the Honourable Mark has been put in place and will be delivered, and part Birrell will give the community the opportunity of of the cuts affect the education Ministry, as all coming to a consensus on this most important issue. honourable members would be aware. But will that happen? How can it happen? There is no sense at all -- Indeed, the government had to examine cutbacks in education in areas which would affect schools to the Honourable members interjecting. lowest or least degree so that schools would continue in the direction they are presently heading, The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader and the which is along a very good path, according to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. observations I have made in my many visits to schools around the State. Ms KIRNER -Isn't that interesting? When I suggest that work on this important issue might be This is in contrast to the shadow spokesman who done by the Leader of the Opposition and myself does not get out to schools very much at all. together to get an agreed response he is not prepared to do anything but laugh. This community Honourable members interjecting. deserves better from an opposition. This community MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr Harrowfield interjected. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Mr Hayward interjected. Parliamentary reform

The SPEAKER - Order! The House is entitled to Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I wish to make a hear the reply from the Minister. I ask both the Ministerial statement on Parliamentary reform. I Minister for Finance and the honourable member for make this statement on an issue of great importance Prahran to remain silent while the Minister replies. to the health of democracy in Victoria, the institution of Parliament itself. Mr POPE - I can understand why the shadow Minister is so precious and sensitive about this Honourable members interjecting. matter; he has refused to go to schools that the honourable member for Forest Hill has asked him to Mr Micallef - Why don't you shut up? attend, and he has refused to visit schools that the honourable member for Sandringham has asked him The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the honourable to attend. member for Springvale to remain silent, and I also ask members of the Opposition to remain silent. Principals of all the major secondary colleges keep asking him to go out there, and he will not go, so I Ms KIRNER - I begin by referring to a much can understand his sensitivity. He went to the quoted statement by that great Prime Minister of Sandringham Secondary College once and hid in the Australia, Ben Chifley: principal's room! Honourable members should not forget that in the life Mr Kennan interjected. of a democracy it is important that the public should respect, not necessarily a party, but the Parliament. Mr Harrowfield interjected. Everything we do to destroy that respect deals a blow to democracy itself. The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the Minister for Finance. I have already asked him to remain silent There is a widespread perception and concern and if necessary I am prepared to take the expressed both in the community and in Parliament appropriate action. that the standing of Parliament is low and still declining. It is not too far fetched to apply Chifley's Mr POPE - The education budget will come in words and to conclude that democracy has been on line at 30 June. This has been a difficult task with dealt some harsh blows by actions of members on all the sensitivities of a number of the areas where we sides of Parliament which have damaged public have had to look at some expenditure savings, but in respect for Parliament in Victoria. bringing it in on line some components of it will be overspent and some will be underspent. Mr Richardson - You are a disgrace!

As the Treasurer explained last Friday, and as I also The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable followed up last Friday, one of the areas underspent member for Forest Hill is not assisting. is that of emergency teachers. Ms KIRNER - Although in part the perception Overall, the education budget will come in on line of declining respect for Parliament may be based on and the carping of the shadow Minister for rose-tinted perceptions of the past, it also reflects the education, as he goes around to the few schools that cumulative effect of changes in the Parliament over he visits, is getting very tiresome within the decades past as a result of: education community. In fact, he is becoming something of a joke out in the education community, more disciplined political party systems in but he would be an even bigger joke if he went to all Parliament; the schools to which he has been invited. use of Parliament by all parties as theatre to influence media and public opinion rather than as a forum for substantive deliberation; MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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increasing legislative and policy dominance of the The Premier of Western Australia made a point Commonwealth in the Federation and consequent recently that I strongly reiterate in relation to our reduction in the power and influence of State own Parliament: Parliaments; I am sure members on both sides of this House have greatly increased policy and managerial resources felt a deep sense of embarrassment and shame to have available to executive government since the 1970s; invited guests, particularly schoolchildren, to witness and the proceedings of Parliament, only for them to see a disgraceful bout of heckling, name calling and other increased numbers of Parliamentarians and in the outbursts which one might expect at a football match. time they spend on Parliamentary duties, in accommodation which is now inappropriate to We also need to address reforms which will improve their role and functions. the effectiveness of the operations of Parliament, improve efficiency and ensure better management of Parliamentary business.

Individually these changes simply reflect aspects of The institution of Parliament in Victoria is in decline. our political heritage and its contemporary It is up to all of us as members of Parliament to take development. But taken as a whole they have constructive action to stop that decline, to modernise diminished the authority of Parliament in ways current inefficient practices and to defend and which could not have been foreseen when the promote Parliamentary democracy whatever our Westminster system of responsible government first party allegiances. developed. PARLIAMENT AND THE EXECUTIVE Some of these trends were entrenched 100 years ago while others are of more recent origin. They remain The role and standing of the Parliament and the political facts of life. We need an approach to relations between the Parliament and the executive Parliament and a respect for Parliament which depend on both constitutional laws and accommodates these realities. conventions. Advocates of reform of Parliament and its power in relation to the executive invariably turn Our concerns in Victoria need to be seen in to conventions reflected in the doctrine of the perspective. Parliaments around Australia and supremacy of Parliament and the doctrine of the overseas are being subjected to increasingly harsh separation of powers. scrutiny by voters. There is a widespread view that executive powers have increased at the expense of The Westminster system of government is based on the powers of Parliaments since the 1950s and that centuries of law, practice and convention and is the proper democratic role of legislatures is in consequently open to some divergence of decline. There are strong disagreements between the interpretation. However, central to the system is the executive and the Parliament in many jurisdictions unity of government in the Crown. The Westminster over both the appropriate balance of power and the system has always been based on a strong executive. extent to which problems have arisen from actions of the executive or from actions within the control of Within this model, Parliament, consisting of the the Parliament itself. Crown and two Houses of Parliament, is the supreme legislative body. By convention the two These broad trends are sharply focused in Victoria Houses meet at the pleasure of the Crown. by the dismay and disgust felt by members of Parliament themselves, by business and community In relation to money Bills, Parliament has no right of leaders, by ordinary citizens and by schoolchildren initiative but responds to a request from the Crown. visiting Parliament at the tone of Parliamentary proceedings. As Parliament degenerates into a The practice of responsible government, whereby rabble of cheap political point scoring, name calling, the executive is drawn from the Parliament and personal vilification, shouting matches and chest holds office so long as it commands a majority in the thumping, it ensures its increasing irrelevance. Lower House, also supports the capacity for a strong executive influence within the Parliament itself. So does the system of strong political parties within the Parliament, whereby electors generally choose MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Parliamentarians on the basis that they will support I propose the following Westminster model strategy a particular party and its leadership as the for reform. In doing so I have considered carefully government. These cannot be seen as incidental or the various reports by committees and consultants to unintended features of our Westminster system. the Parliament and consider that a balanced and integrated package of changes should be The doctrine of the separation of legislative, judicial implemented. and executive powers is, in its full form, reflected in governmental arrangements in systems such as the I express the hope that leadership in reform of the United States. In this model there is almost complete Parliament can draw on support from both sides of separation between the legislature, the executive and politics. the judiciary. The executive is directly elected and is not drawn from or responsible to Parliament. The largest responsibility falls to the Presiding Officers, and I acknowledge the great work they This approach is different from the Westminster have been putting into this task. However, real system and relies on constitutional theories drawn change, change which is implemented, will also from Montesquieu, who arguably based his theory depend on party Leaders showing leadership, and on a misunderstanding of the Westminster system. members and staff of the Parliament more generally By contrast, within the Westminster system of showing both commitment to the goals of government, the doctrine of separation of powers is Parliamentary democracy and willingness to limited by the ultimate unity of government in the consider innovations. Crown and by the conventions of responsible government. RESTATEMENT OF THE ROLE AND PURPOSE OF THE PARLIAMENT The significance of these competing constitutional theories to the current issue is that many of the It is the Parliament that stands as the guardian of arguments put forward for the absolute democracy and the Constitution between elections. independence and supremacy of the Parliament are There is a challenge for members of Parliament, for based on an incomplete understanding of the executive government and for citizens at large to Constitution and of the Westminster conventions. preserve and promote the role of the Parliament.

The reform of the Parliament requires a A government can be elected every four years but constitutional policy as well as a strategy for the there may be limited scrutiny and debate on its Parliament. actions between elections. There is a real danger that Parliamentary democracy will cease to be a practical Is there to be a change in policy and practice to a reality and become simply another constitutional republican model of an independent Parliament? If ornament. so, is this compatible with the practice of responsible government? Should consideration be given to a In order to confront this danger the role of the directly elected executive, modelled on State Parliament must be modernised, restated and better government in the United States of America? These communicated to the community at large. The are questions which go beyond the issue of conventions and practices of the Parliament can then Parliamentary reform but they would have to be be appraised in the light of the agreed purpose of the addressed were we to adopt a strict separation of Parliament. powers theory of the role of Parliament and the executive. It has been widely agreed that the purpose and role of the Parliament within our Constitution needs a As there is no immediate likelihood of deep dear restatement. I propose the following: constitutional change, the problem of the crisis of confidence in the Parliament needs to be addressed The purpose and role of the Victorian Parliament from a proper appreciation of current constitutional is to act on behalf of the people of Victoria to: realities. We should recognise the depth and complexity of the roles of Parliament and executive be the supreme legislative authority for Victoria; in the Westminster system in developing strategies for reform. accept or reject the Ministry appointed by the Crown by the expression of confidence or no confidence; MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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give consent or otherwise to taxation and so that there were equal numbers from government appropriations proposed by the Crown and and opposition and from each House. examine public accounts; The conventions of Parliamentary behaviour uphold and further the democratic constitution of Victoria; The standing of Parliament will not improve in the eyes of members themselves or in the eyes of the monitor and scrutinise the activities of Executive public until members accept and expect serious Government and hold the Ministry accountable deliberation and debate in the Parliament on issues for Executive actions; of substance. We must free ourselves from the expectations of constant gladiatorial performance give leadership to community debate on other which have become commonplace. issues affecting the public interest of Victoria and its people; The remedy for this problem lies in the culture of the Parliament and the Legislative Assembly in receive petitions from citizens requesting action particular. Members must themselves accept the by the Parliament. discipline of vigorous substantive debate and deliberation. SPECIFIC REFORMS TO CONVENTIONS AND PRACTICES An effective reform aimed at the current culture of the Victorian Parliament does require an Understanding and promotion of the Constitution and independence of mind and action in the face of the place of Parliament in a Westminster-style democracy Chambers strongly divided on party lines. Conventions to protect the independence and Real reform of the Parliament requires a better integrity of the Presiding Officers are required, and understanding and restatement of the conventions these must be supported by members' actions. of the Parliament and the Constitution, a real commitment to them by members of the Parliament The support of party Leaders for the authority of the and a wider appreciation in the community of the Speaker and the President is essential to the effective role of Parliament. operations of the Parliament and to any thoroughgoing reform of the Parliament. Processes These can be reinforced by appropriate amendments for consultation among them will assist in to Standing Orders and to the Constitution, but a . implementing reform. I commit my government and knowledgeable commitment to reform of Parliament my party to supporting the independence of the from the members themselves is a necessary Presiding Officers in their roles and to consulting on precondition. Without that, formal change will mean problems. little. Procedures to improve deliberation and debate I note the leadership of the Presiding Officers in a process of discussion of these issues among There are particular concerns at the reduction in the members. The active participation of Ministers and a number of questions without notice asked and wider cross-section of members of the Parliament answered - and today was the imperfect or perfect would now be appropriate. example of that - and the reduction in the number of opportunities for backbenchers to participate in I propose that a Parliament of Victoria Committee be the Parliament in debates and statements. These established to drive the reform of Parliament and to trends tend to undermine the role of the Parliament organise a continuing process of seminars, education as a genuine place of scrutiny and debate. and information to members and the public at large. It would also have other roles to which I shall refer The Legislative Assembly has had before it for some later. time a report from the Standing Orders Committee to allow an extension of time for question time when This committee should be chaired by the Presiding the number of questions dealt with is insufficient Officers in rotation and in addition to them would and to increase opportunities for private members to comprise a Minister from the Legislative Assembly speak in Parliament. nominated by the Premier and five other members An honourable member interjected. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Ms KIRNER - The reason we have not done it is Government in the Legislative Assembly moved a that you will not agree with it. motion which has not yet been considered.

Mr L1EBERMAN (Benambra) - Mr Speaker, I The government now supports change to Standing raise an unusual point of order, but I think it is Orders in the Assembly to achieve in particular: relevant. It is on the ground of anticipation. It is well known that the Standing Orders Committee has discretion to the Speaker to allow question time to prepared. a set of major reforms of the Standing be extended if opportunity for asking an adequate Orders. It has circulated. a copy of those in draft number of questions is not available; form and conducted. a seminar under your chairmanship, Sir, in recent weeks. The committee is opportunity for a grievance debate to be held on a about to complete its work. more regular and frequent basis (every third Thursday on which the Assembly sits); Furthermore, there are items on the Notice Paper dealing with major reforms of Standing Orders. The reduction of time limits on speeches in debates major responsibility for those issues is in the hands (with discretion to the Speaker to extend the time of the government. The debate on those matters has allowed if a member's rights are unreasonably not occurred. All that Parliament knows is that the affected by interruptions); and Standing Orders Committee, which is an all-party committee, is about to make its suggestions for agreed times for the duration of debates. major reform. The Premier is attempting to debate the matter in anticipation of all those issues. It is a The government's support for these changes to cynical exercise to divert attention from the work of ensure a better use of question time and more a Parliamentary committee, which in this case is a opportunity for members to participate in debate is committee under your chairmanship, Mr Speaker. contingent on the Speaker's developing and enforcing appropriate guidelines, in relation to both I ask you to direct the Premier to delete from her questions and statements, to control abuse of the Ministerial statement any matters that anticipate the processes. work of the Standing Orders Committee. Abuse of Parliamentary Privilege In addition, another committee that was set up by resolution of both Houses of Parliament on the One of the problems has been that there have been initiative of the opposition in the Legislative Council disquieting instances where private citizens and is required. to conduct an inquiry into Parliament. It public servants have been subject to unfair personal relates to the very same matters that the Premier attack in the Parliament to which they cannot says the government now wishes to address. This is respond. an attempt by the government to take work away from committees that are already set up. The privileges of the Parliament, which are central to its role, must be upheld. There is however an urgent I shall conclude on this point. It is unusual, but in need for processes to protect ci tizens from gratuitous simple terms we have a government that is ten years damage to reputations under cover of Parliamentary old and about to go; it is now attempting to privilege. anticipate and take away from existing committees the work they have been doing. Honourable members must be made conscious of the fact that they are responsible for the accuracy of The SPEAKER - Order! On the point of order statements they make in Parliament and of the raised by the honourable member for Benambra, in precedent in the United Kingdom House of fact I took advice from the Clerk on that matter Commons that they may be required to provide before the Ministerial statement was presented. I do prima facie proof of accuracy. not uphold the point of order. I propose that the procedure adopted by the Ms KIRNER (premier) - Thank you, Australian Senate (Privilege Resolutions of 1988) Mr Speaker. These proposals are sensible. The should urgently be examined by the Standing government attempted to have some of them Orders Committee of each House, for speedy implemented a year ago, when the Leader of the adoption in the Victorian Parliament. Under those resolutions a person named in the Senate can submit MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 71 a response to the Privileges Committee. The independence have been made. A balanced committee considers the submission and can approach which reflects the conventions for money recommend that the response be printed in Hansard. Bills is needed.

Scheduling of debates Clearly what is at stake is the right of initiative in the preparation of Parliamentary appropriations. The The Strategic Management Review notes the impact executive will control the numbers in the Assembly of the very fragmented process for consideration of and will have the capacity to act on the floor of the Bills on members of the public wishing to follow House if a confrontation develops because proposals particular debates. Fixed times for second-reading run outside critical government policy parameters or debates would assist both members and the public. are undesirable in some other major respect.

Whilst there may be tactical advantages lost in I propose a sensible approach, reflecting having predictable times for debates, the benefits in constitutional conventions for money Bills. There orderly dispatch of business and public access to should be a separate Parliamentary appropriation debates override such considerations. The Bill developed by the Presiding Officers in government supports the practice of introducing set consultation with the Treasurer and Minister for times for the resumption of second-reading debates. Finance. This Bill should be introduced into the A necessary corollary of set times for debates will be Assembly by the Speaker. The proposal for agreement to a definite duration for debates, if the amendment to the Constitution Act to entrench this Parliamentary timetable is to remain manageable. practice is supported.

The Parliamentary Committee system The requirement for a section 63 Governor's message must however be retained. This The Speaker has suggested from time to time a more requirement embodies a primary doctrine of developed use of committees in the Parliament to Westminster government, that Parliament can make achieve more effective scrutiny of the executive and appropriation only following a request from the more thorough consideration of legislation. Crown. An equally relevant convention (enshrined ill section 7 of the Australia Act) requires that the The existing joint committees have had a chequered Crown acts on advice of the State Premier. history and have been regarded as being too susceptible to executive influence in their references I propose a new convention, to be agreed by all and budgets. parties in the Parliament, that on receipt of a request from the Presiding Officers of the Parliament, the I support the concept of a more developed and Premier will advise the Governor to issue a section independent system of committees, including 63 message in accordance with this request. greater use of committees in the legislative process. I suggest that the Presiding Officers be asked to These measures would establish the further present a proposal for consideration by the independence of Parliament while respecting the Parliament. convention that money Bills can be considered only after a request from the Crown. In any revised system of Parliamentary committees it will be important that they work effectively and Greater formal independence from the Executive that the balance of leadership and policy direction is kept firmly in the hands of members. The purpose of The formal provisions for staffing the Parliament, committees is to facilitate scrutiny and deliberation relying as they do on action by the Governor in by Parliamentarians. Committees need staff Council for all staff, are inconsistent with modem adequate to support members in their deliberation, personnel management and also highlight the but the Parliament should exercise restraint in the reliance of the Parliament on the executive. size of committee staff. All of the physical, financial and staffing resources A separate appropriation for the Parliament allocated in support of the work of the Parliament and its members need to be brought into one pool The current arrangement for the preparation of where they can be managed as flexibly and estimates for Parliament is clearly inappropriate. On efficiently as possible whilst respecting the the other hand, extravagant claims for Parliamentary bicameral nature of the Parliament. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Budgetary and staffing independence for the government will support such initiatives by the Parliament will require a process for effective Parliament. exercise of this responsibility. This should involve members from both Houses and all parties in CONCLUSION overseeing management of the physical and human resources of the Parliament in a way which meets The refonns I have outlined are to be seen as a the objectives of the institution of Parliament and package taken as a whole. Resolute implementation balances priorities of competing claims. of an integrated strategy is required rather than piecemeal changes. Intended improvements in the An integrated Parliamentary Seroice procedures and standing of the Parliament must actually be delivered to justify expanded activity The achievement of an integrated management of and greater independence. Parliament independently of the executive will be enhanced by legislation for the Parliament of Reform of the Parliament can too easily be overtaken Victoria Committee proposed previously. This by more pressing concerns and we need to set a committee should be a body corporate responsible to definite timetable for reform. each House through the Presiding Officers for budget preparation and financial management, The Parliament of Victoria Committee which I have employment of staff, management of assets and proposed should be established with all speed and direction of the operational functions of the should bring legislation back for the Parliament to Parliament. consider in the spring sessional period.

All staff of the Parliament with the exception of the I would expect that in the spring session we will Clerks would be appointed by the committee. In consider a Parliamentary Appropriation Bill practice this power would be delegated to the (1992-93), a Parliamentary administration Bill to Presiding Officers or to division heads (or to implement the strategy proposed in this statement, members in the case of electorate office staff). and a Constitution Act amendment Bill to entrench Appropriate arrangements for career paths and the arrangements for a separate appropriation mobility within the broader public sector should be process for the Parliament. put in place. Reform of the Parliament will involve a range of In the case of Clerks their appoinbnent should shifts in balances of power and tactical advantage as continue to be made by the Governor. Again it between political parties and as between the would be appropriate for the Premier to agree to Parliament and the executive. The government is advise the Governor based on the advice of the prepared to make some changes that may be risky in relevant Presiding Officer, as in the Commonwealth a narrow party political sense because of our case. overriding commibnent to strengthening and modernising Parliamentary democracy in Victoria. The Strategic Management Review proposed that the Auditor-General, the Ombudsman and the Chief It will be imperative that when Parliament achieves Parliamentary Counsel should be brought into an greater independence it manages its budget and integrated Parliamentary service. The government staffing with rigour and restraint. does not support implementation of these proposals. It is in this light that I make this statement today as a Public relations and public education government response to the Strategic Management Review of the Parliament and the progress report of A more effective role for the Parliament in public the Joint Select Committee on the Parliament. education and public relations is desirable. Parliament should at least put as much effort into I challenge all of the honourable members present, public education as comparable public institutions on both sides of the House, to take up the cause of in this city. Parliamentary reform seriously and to support the package of measures which I have proposed. The advancement of the cause of democracy would seem to require that the Parliament develop an I move: extensive program of public education and the That this House takes note of the Ministerial statement. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 73

Mr KENNETI (Leader of the Opposition) - This They are guilty of neglect of this community and the Premier has led her government for twenty months. interests of this community. It is a very interesting commentary on her priorities that her first Ministerial statement in this session is a Ms Kimer interjected. statement on the refonn of the Parliament - not a statement on the plight facing our unemployed, Mr KENNETI - And you are guilty of being including our youth unemployed, the economy of irrelevant! Today's statement is an indication of your the State or the environment, that is, issues that irrelevance! This is the second day of this concern the public. What we have here is - as from session-- her colleague in Canberra, the Prince of Darkness, now the Prime Minister of this country - an The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the attempt to divert public attention away not only Opposition should address the Chair. from the real issues but also from the government's level of competence. Today that has been shown to Mr KENNETI - This is the second day of this be of the lowest of low levels in terms of the session, at a time when this State has never had such government's ability to manage. high levels of unemployment, when the State's debt has never been higher, when there have never been This Ministerial statement should be reheaded "A more bankruptcies among those in small business, Transition to Opposition statement". After ten years and this Premier comes into this House with a in office, this government, through this Premier, statement that someone has written for her and says, comes in here and says to us, 'We have a number of 'We have to refonn the Parliament". What a great reforms we want you to have. We want you to have act of hypocrisy! grievance debates on a regular basis". I invite honourable members to go through the I ask: why is the govenunent doing that? The document. Let us go through it bit by bit because no answer is: because its time is up! doubt can exist that a whole range of issues can be found where the performance of this Parliament has Honourable members interjecting. been reduced.

Mr KENNETI - I wonder who wrote the Mr Baker interjected. statement for the Premier. Who was the author, Madam Premier? I wonder where this has come Mr KENNETT - We will come to you later! from. Because, Mr Speaker, I can tell you here and now that this is not the language of the Premier of Mr Baker interjected. this State. Someone has prepared this for her and she has walked in here, the day after St Patrick's Day, Mr KENNETT - Let us start on the Minister for with her arm across her breast, and said, 'We need Food and Agriculture now! to reform the Parliament". Ten years after the govenunent was elected and began to lower the Mr Roper interjected. standards in this place and during which time it has deliberately lowered the standards, it wants to make Mr KENNETT - If Mr Roper wants to know changes. who is the Leader, I invite him to look at the Minister for Food and Agriculture. If you want to I ask: why? The answer is, as I said: as a diversion, refonn the Parliament, ask him whom he similar to that of the Prince of Darkness in the north. approached to establish a new, separate department Now the govenunent will do anything to divert of the opposition in the dying days of this attention from the issues that are important, such as govenunent! the 46 per cent of young people who are unemployed and the fact that more than 90 000 Mr Baker interjected. women are unemployed in this State. Mr KENNETT -And you offered me a suite of I ask: what is the Premier's response to those issues? offices similar to yours! The answer is that she says, 'We can solve their problem: refonn the Parliament". The members of Honourable members interjecting. this government -and she knows it -are guilty of mismanagement, as are their Federal colleagues. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr KENNETf -TIUs man is the greatest leak Mr Cunningham interjected. out of Cabinet of any government, and he has made approaches to me for reform! Now he wants the The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable opposition to be given the opportunity associated member for Derrimut! with and the status of a separate department that he says we deserve and are owed. I ask: what are we Mr Cunningham interjected. offered? The answer is: a Ministerial suite, with a toilet, the same as you have! The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the Opposition has the floor. I intend to offer him the Mr Baker interjected. same protection as any other honourable member. I ask the honourable member for Derrimut and the Honourable members interjecting. honourable member for Portland to remain silent.

Mr KENNETf - And we are offered our own Mr KENNETf - This list has been prepared by budget! I can refer to other Ministers who have been the Clerk, so it is accurate. In the 1980 autumn talking to members of the opposition, trying to do session the number of questions asked was 15.7; in deals in respect of reform. Mr Roper has been the spring session it was 18.2. In 1982, during the disappointed and has been speaking widely; Mr period of change of government, in the autumn Pope is so concerned -- session the number was 16.1; in the spring session it was also 16.1. The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the Opposition will refer to honourable members by Mr Micallef - How many points of order and their correct titles. interjections were there?

Mr KENNETf - Honourable members are Mr KENNEIT - Let us take 1987, as a seeing the death of a sick government, led by a mid-point. In the autumn session the number of selfish and incompetent Premier who is not questions asked was 10.4; during the spring session prepared to put the interests of this State first. it was 11.5. Let us move now to the period following the 1988 State election. In the 1989 autumn session Ms Kimer interjected. the number of questions asked was 8.7; during the spring session it was 8.9. Mr KENNETf - You made this statement today because you cannot talk about or debate anything I move now to 1991, just last year. In the autumn else! session the number of questions asked was 9; during the spring session it was 7.7 The SPEAKER - Order! Again I remind the Leader of the Opposition, who has been a member Honourable members interjecting. since 1976, that his remarks must be directed to the Chair and not directly to any other person. Mr KENNETf - Let us bring the figures up to date. Mr KENNETf - Mr Speaker, the opposition did not present this statement. Mr McNamara - Try today!

Mr Micallef interjected. Mr KENNETf - How many did we have today?

Mr KENNETf -It is disgraceful; that is correct, Honourable Members - Four! as far as it goes. It is a disgrace that today this Parliament has to put up with this rubbish! Mr KENNEIT - Four, and the Premier has the audacity and the hypocrisy to come in here and say Let us look at some of the matters to which the that we should have a better running of this House! Premier referred. She referred to question time. Mr One Minister spoke for 15 minutes - half of Speaker, you will be well aware that in 1980 the question time! average number of questions asked per day during the autumn session was 15.7; in the spring session it Mr Speaker, on the question of questions, it is not was 18.2. about the rules; it is about the goodwill of the members of this House. No rule will overcome the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 75 selfishness being displayed by members of the the Ministerial statement is a statement of defeat. It government as they try to protect themselves from is a statement of a bereft government led by a the barrage of questions put by members of the Premier who is bereft of any thought or ideas of opposition on behalf of the broader community. getting on with the job. On all the issues raised in the That is the first matter. Ministerial statement - questions without notice, the grievance debate and the committee system - Let us look now at grievances. I ask: how often is a the government has had the opportunity of doing grievance debate conducted in this House? something, not by changing the rules and regulations but by performance, by giving references Honourable members interjecting. to committees, but it has done nothing. The government is guilty on all counts. The community Mr KENNETf - Perhaps once a session, maybe is concerned about a range of issues, issues that the twice. I ask also: what is the Premier proposing Premier cannot address. today, out of the blue, after ten years in government? I quote from her Ministerial statement: The fourth area in which the government is guilty, if the Premier wants to make Parliament more ... opportunity for a grievance debate to be held on a relevant, is the way the government has abused the more regular and frequent basis (every third Thursday Parliamentary system by governing through on which the Assembly sits) ... regulations rather than legislation. The government has developed to an art form a method of bypassing That is what would suit the Premier. The Premier Parliament and using regulations. The Premier and the former Premier, the honourable member for should not tell Parliament - she is trying to divert Bundoora, have had the opportunity to make this attention elsewhere - that she is genuinely place relevant by allowing the opposition to have a concerned about reform. This government is not grievance debate every three weeks or whenever the concerned about reform. It hopes this Ministerial Premier likes. The government initially decided not statement will put some new life into the to hold a grievance debate this session but now it government and a community that is frustrated, has been really generous and has granted the anxious and unemployed. It is why I asked earlier: opposition two days for the grievance debate. Does who wrote the speech? Who did the work? It was the Premier know the date of the two days set aside obviously not the Premier. for the grievance debate? Do you know the dates? I know the honourable member for Hawthorn knows Ms Kimer - You have not answered one the dates. question. What are you going to do?

Mr Gude - The day before Good Friday. Mr KENNElT - Mr Speaker, I always refer my comments through the Chair but the Premier's Mr KENNElT - The government has interjections come across the table. The Premier nominated one grievance debate for the day before asked what the opposition is going to do. The Good Friday so that anything raised during that opposition will continue to use whatever time is left debate will not be covered by the media. It is terribly before the next election to point out to Parliament generous. The Labor government is guilty of and the community that the selfishness of the reducing the number of grievance debates. Premier and the government is destroying the only opportunity Victoria has of rebuilding. The Premier said that the so-called committee system of Parliament was now more relevant. The The community deserves better than this Natural Resources and Environment Committee, the trumped-up, so-called package of reform, which green committee, has not had a reference for four could have been issued at any time. This is a feeble months! Yet the Premier says to the House that attempt to divert attention from the issues that could Parliament must make use of the committee system. turn this State around. The Premier is prepared to The Premier has had the opportunity to do talk about anything except the issue confronting the something about it for twenty months! people of Victoria. It is a reflection on the state of the government, which is now unable to administer or Ms Kimer interjected. govern.

Mr KENNElT - The Premier interjects, ''No One of the greatest criticisms many Victorians have answer". The opposition is clearly pointing out that of the head of government is that she attends every MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

76 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 function and appears on television every night but many of its traditions; it has lost its standards of she is not governing. Who is governing Victoria? dress; it does not have the embellishments of the traditions of Parliament. There are some people such I suppose when this statement receives media as the Premier and the Prime Minister who want to coverage there will be another groan from the get rid of tradition and break our constitutional ties. community: why is the Premier spending time on this issue when Victorians are concerned about jobs? Today the Premier based her statement on a Finding jobs is the top priority. Nothing else should fundamental cord of tradition, the Westminster be consuming government activity at the moment, system, but previously her government has cut such but the government will not address that issue! cords as often as possible.

Because the Premier has threatened to extend the We are prepared to take on board and review some government's term of office beyond four years to of the matters in the statement. However I suspect December or even Boxing Day, the people of the Premier has pre-empted the work that you, Victoria will see the government and the Premier for Mr Speaker, and the President of the Upper House what they are - terribly selfish. There will be no have done. You, together with representatives from restoration of confidence in this State until the both sides of the House, have been a driving force government gives back to the community its right to for change. As you come to the end of your time as have a say in the management team of the State. Speaker the Premier has taken the work you have done and the work of the President, the Honourable Ms Kimer - You have no policies. You have no Alan Hunt, who has considerable political expertise, respect for Parliament. and has had someone cobble all the ideas together to give the impression that she is interested in reform. Mr KENNETf - The Premier says that the opposition has no respect for Parliament! That is a Through our members on committees we have been gross misrepresentation and a lie, but that is not part of that reform process. Parliamentary reform is unusual for the government. Between now and the not new. In fact last week every member of next election the government will lie and cheat and Parliament received a circular from the Standing divert attention away from its own failings. Orders Committee on this matter. It is not new. The Premier is trying to divert attention away from other Many of the problems the Premier addressed in her matters. She is trying to downgrade your role, Mr Ministerial statement did not exist prior to 1982 Speaker, and that of Mr President by trying to come when the Premier was not here. She was pursuing up with something that looks fresh. This matter is her own career as a community-based politician, not fresh. Our representatives have been working on working her way into the Upper House. it for months.

Parliament is a reflection of those within it. I shall now deal with a couple of points in the Unfortunately it is a truism that the party with the statement. Firstly, I shall deal with tradition. Last largest number of members in this Chamber forms night during the debate on the Vermin and Noxious the government and fundamentally influences the Weeds (Poison Baits) Bill the Minister was not at the activities of this place. If there has been a decline in table. He was not even in the House. standards and a reduction in the number of questions asked during question time, the number of Mr Micallef - That is not true. grievance debates and the use of the committee system, it is not the fault of the opposition but of the Mr KENNETf -It is true. government for failing to take a lead. The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the honourable Some individuals in this place have a particular member for Springvale to remain silent, and I ask knowledge and understanding of the workings of honourable members sitting behind the Leader of Parliament. One is the honourable member for the Opposition to indicate their support by Footscray, the former Deputy Premier. Another is remaining silent. the honourable member for Evelyn, the former Speaker. The honourable members for Evelyn and Mr Micallef - He is not allowed to tell lies. Ripon, who have both been in this place for a number of years, know that this Parliament is not the Parliament we jOined. This Parliament has lost MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the honourable Mr KENNETI - This is about refonn. There will member for Springvale to withdraw the comment he be a new respect for Parliament. We will insist, and I has just made. as Premier will insist, that questions are answered succinctly and briefly to enable us to re-establish the Mr MICALLEF (Springvale) - I withdraw that record that the government had in 1980-1982. I give he is not allowed to tell lies. that commitment. We will not have to change Standing Orders to do that because it will be done Mr HONEYWOOD (Warrandyte) - On a point by goodwill. of order, you, Mr Speaker, were in the chair for the first few moments of my speech when I moved to With regard to the request by the Minister for Food adjourn the debate because the Minister responsible and Agriculture for a separate office and a budget to had not come into the Chamber. be established for the opposition: I shall take that on board. Unfortunately I am not sure with whom we The SPEAKER - Order! There is no point of will be dealing. Already a meeting of some members order. of the Labor Party has been held to try to allocate shadow portfolios. The Minister for School Mr KENNETI (Leader of the Opposition) - I Education has recognised that he will not be among make the point and I believe the honourable them. He has asked for the first safe Labor seat that member's response speaks volumes -- comes up at a by-election. We will not be dealing with that Minister. We might be dealing with the Mr Micallef - Tell the truth! Minister for Food and Agriculture or perhaps the Premier. She has had a difficult task rebuilding a Mr KENNETI - I ask the honourable member party that is being decimated because of her refusal for Springvale to withdraw because what he has to go to the people as quickly as possible. We might said goes back to your previous direction, Mr be dealing with the Treasurer. Speaker. An Honourable Member - He won't be here! The SPEAKER - Order! The interjection made by the honourable member for Springvale was Mr KENNETI - We might have to deal with the unparliamentary in a number of senses. honourable member for Thomastown! I say to the Minister for Food and Agriculture that he should not Mr MICALLEF (Springvale) - As it was meet me around at the pub but he should make any unparliamentary, I withdraw. request publicly through the press. Once Labor goes into opposition we will be happy to consider it. As Mr KENNETI (Leader of the Opposition) - I part of those reforms I shall be happy to take that conclude on these points. Before the end of the year, matter on board. Perhaps the Minister would be perhaps on Boxing Day, an election will be held. It is prepared to put it in writing. Let us have a clear there will be a change of government and if submission and my colleagues and I will consider it that is the case the first major refonn will be to when we next have a shadow Cabinet meeting. re-establish Parliamentary working practices and standards to engender respect and credibility for this I give a guarantee, without there having to be a place. We will reinforce the dress code. It is major committee being established, that a grievance important that those who are elected to represent the debate will be held every third week regardless of community attend Parliament decently attired. We the dates on which those weeks fall. Every third will use some of the officers of this place, such as week the Labor Party will get something that it has George Oliver, the Legislative Council Housekeeper, not given us. It could do it today if it wanted to but who has a huge experience, to help restore this place it will not. to its fonner glory as the House of the people. We are going to use committees. We are going to By way of example the rooms currently occupied by give them terms of reference and respect. We will the opposition, located near the north door, will be ensure that the people who lead those committees demolished and restored to make them similar to have career paths within the Parliamentary system. the area around the vestibule near the south door. It is difficult to have career paths within politics given all the idiosyncrasies of the occupation, but we Ms Kimer - This is going to be a priority of your are prepared to build in a career structure for government? members from all sides of the House. The committee MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

78 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 system will be used properly. I guarantee that we I should like to move that some words be added to will sit regularly in a way that best utilises our the motion by the Premier today. If you remember, members and staff. We can do that without a new Sir, the Premier said at the end of her speech, '1 committee and, if the Premier were serious, it could move that this House takes note of the Ministerial be done now. statement". I move:

Ms Kimer - You haven't answered all the points. That the following words be added to the motion:

Mr KENNElT - The others are not worth "and notes that the statement should have been entitled responding to. 'The Transition to Opposition statement"'.

Ms Kimer - I see, they are not worth responding Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National to. Party) - The amendment moved by the Leader of the Opposition summarises the whole purpose of Mr KENNElT - If the Premier had been this statement. Clearly there is a need for reform in listening to my concluding remarks - I might have the way Parliament is operating, but much of that to start again - she might have heard me say we reform can be achieved within the existing Standing were prepared to take the statement on board and Orders. After the way the government has operated consider it. However we can do without all this over the past ten years it is particularly frustrating hoopla and waste of time. for members on the opposition side to see it now in its dying months in office bringing in a statement Ms Kimer - Let us have an answer! that supposedly will remedy all the problems that have clearly been deliberately brought about over Mr KENNElT - Yap, yap, yap; you never stop. I that period by the government. have hardly been able to get in a word and you can imagine how that offends me. We are prepared to We need to address the issue of the impartiality of take this statement on board but most of this can be the Chair. Pressure was exerted on the Chair achieved without establishing a committee. It can be following the 1982 election when it was made clear achieved with goodwill. The Premier has had the by the then Leader of the House to the then Speaker opportunity of putting a separate budget in place. that he was the lackey of the government. You have handed down two Budgets and a June statement, and there is another one coming up next Ms Kimer interjected. week! Why have you not done it? Mr Speaker does not know and I do not know. Mr McNAMARA - I am talking about the honourable member for Footscray, who made it In one sense this statement today is very sad because clear to the then Speaker that he was a lackey of the it reflects the inability of the government to focus Labor Party and the government and he was to any longer on issues that matter to the people of behave accordingly. We saw quite a change in Victoria. It is also sad because it shows that the direction because of the intimidation of the Chair by Premier is continuing this stunt-by-stunt, the then Leader of the House. day-by-day fiasco. It is more important to be seen to be doing something - anything! - with pictures As mentioned by the Leader of the Opposition, we and lights rather than addressing the issues of the also saw the continual denigration of the standards people and rather than governing. that the Premier has espoused in her statement. She talks about her high ideals and how she wants to see More importantly it shows how incompetent the us follow the model of Westminster and continue to government has become. It is no longer competent to aim for those high standards. All we have seen over govern; it no longer addresses the issues of the the past ten years has been continual shedding of people of Victoria and it puts into real perspective everything that was appropriate to this Chamber our current campaign, a positive campaign, because ensuring an even-handed approach to both sides of it keeps highlighting where the government has the House so that all backbenchers received the failed. The government is guilty of being irrelevant. rights they deserved. As I said earlier, it is guilty of mismanagement and neglect. After what happened today at question time I should have thought that if the Premier had any shame she would have adjourned her statement. In MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 79 question time today the Treasurer took up more might add, the government's own backbench the than half of question time answering only one right to have a forum where they can raise matters question. We were lucky to get barely four questions of concern. in at question time this morning. It was a record low performance by the government, not brought about The Standing Orders Committee is about to prepare by any action of the opposition but by the length of a report that has been foreshadowed, as you would Ministerial responses. On that basis I should have be aware, Mr Speaker, because of the work of thought the Premier would have adjourned her yourself and the President in another place. There statement until she at least could have followed a has been a little gazumping by the Premier to try to reasonable performance at question time. grab a few more headlines, and that is what this is all about - just another grab on the news tOnight, In 1982 one of the first actions by the honourable some little good news item. If it is not cuddling a member for Footscray, the then Leader of the House fluffy marsupial it is dreaming up some other stunt, and Deputy Premier, was to move the introduction putting on a funny hat and ensuring she gets some of Sessional Orders. media coverage.

Mr Roper - They were there before. The grievance debate is another forum where backbench members of all sides have an opportunity Mr McNAMARA - They are a lot different from of raising matters of concern. In the past two the way they operated previously because the sessions there has not been provision for one Deputy Premier muzzled the opportunity of Grievance Day and the Deputy Leader of the backbench members of Parliament to raise matters OppOSition and the Deputy Leader of the National on adjournment motions. Members who have Party have had to go with a begging bowl to the served in this Parliament longer than me advise me Leader of the House to ask for the right of that under the previous Liberal government not a opposition parties to have a Grievance Day. week went by when a special adjournment motion Graciously we are now given a miserable two days was not moved by the then Labor opposition. The for this session. As was mentioned by the Leader of government at that time always allowed those the Opposition, one of those Grievance Days is on motions to go ahead, often at only 15 or 20 minutes the eve of Good Friday. That was done deliberately notice or perhaps a little longer from time to time. so that the matters raised will not get the television or print coverage that is received following a normal That opportunity has never been granted by this Thursday. government. It has resisted it at every opportunity. The procedure is in place and it could have been I find it strange to talk about how to make the work done every week of this session. If the government of Parliamentary committees more effective. Good wants to institute these sorts of reforms something gracious, one needs only to look at the way the should be done about the Sessional Orders it has committees have operated over the past ten years. introduced and the Leader of the House should Backbench members of Parliament have been assure us that we will have an adjournment motion treated with absolute contempt by the government. every week this session. I ask the Leader of the In the six and a half years I was a member of the House to respond on that matter. We should be Printing Committee it did not meet once because it given the opportunity that is given to most other did not receive one reference! Parliaments in Australia. It happens on a regular basis certainly in Federal Parliament but we are My colleague, the honourable member for Rodney, muzzled here because this government does not is a member of the Social Development Committee, want to be held to any form of scrutiny. The which inquired into road safety issues. The inquiry government wants to govern through the executive. took more than twelve months, during which time the committee interviewed members of the Police The Premier came in here today in a sanctimonious Force, representatives of the Royal Automobile Club fashion and lectured us on how she will reform the of Victoria and a wide range of interested groups. situation that has existed for the past ten years, although it is entirely in her own hands to make Despite the fact that a government member chairs those changes without having reference to any the Social Development Committee and has the committee or acting in any other way. All that is casting vote - and despite the fact that all twelve needed is for the Leader of the House to suspend the members of the committee unanimously supported Sessional Orders and give the opposition and, I the recommendations made - the Premier stood MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

80 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 over the Minister for Transport, telling him that he aware, Mr Speaker, that ten years ago the bulk of must not accept the recommendations. Neither the Ministers turned up for the adjournment debate. Premier nor the Minister for Transport had read the report, yet the Premier ordered the Minister to It must be recognised that under your Premiership scuttle its recommendations! I wonder how the six over the past twelve months the commitment of the backbench members of the government felt about executive and of the Cabinet to the forms of the having their twelve months hard work shredded House has slipped away. You are treating before anyone in the executive was given the Parliament -- opportunity of reading it. The SPEAKER - Order! The Chair is not treating We must ensure that the Premier takes responsibility the House in any particular manner. The Leader of for her administration of the affairs of government, the National Party should address the Chair. particularly the affairs of Parliament. We must ensure that when Standing Committees are given Mr McNAMARA - The Premier is treating references and asked to undertake certain tasks at Parliament with absolute contempt. That is least someone in the executive has the courtesy to something you certainly need to address -- read the recommendations that are made. The SPEAKER - Order! If the Leader of the Current debates on motions for the adjournment of National Party will not address the Chair, I will not the sitting cannot be compared with adjournment hear him! debates ten years ago. When I was first elected to Parliament almost all of the then frontbench Mr McNAMARA - As you well know, Mr attended the adjournment debate to listen to and Speaker, at certain stages last night not one single reply to the matters raised. Now we are lucky if one Minister was in the Chamber. One of the backbench Minister is in the Chamber for the debate. The members of the opposition was forced to move the standard response by the lone Minister at the table motion that the House do now adjourn because of to the matters raised during the adjournment debate the dearth of Ministers in the Chamber. That is is, ''The relevant Minister is not here. I shall refer the indicative of the rabble that is the government; it is matter to him or her". That is another example of the also indicative of a Premier who cannot control the way in which the government has muzzled rabble, who has totally lost control of her team - an backbenchers, who are entitled to receive reasoned issue she must address. and immediate responses from the Ministers with whom they raise matters of concern to their Honourable members on this side of the House constituents. always try to ensure that quorums are present when issues of concern are raised. We have sought rulings Mr Tanner interjected. from the Chair about whether quorums can be called. That matter has not been resolved and has Mr McNAMARA - As the member for Caulfield not been addressed in the statement. says, that is a SO-year old tradition. The debate on the motion for the adjournment of the sittings is one Members of Parliament have the right to debate of the few forums where backbench members of all matters affecting the operations of Ministries and political parties have an opportunity of raising departments. Following its election in 1982 one of matters of concern to their constituents. But how can the reforms heralded by the then Premier, the they get decent responses when Ministers are not honourable member for Bundoora, was the prepared to attend the Chamber during the introduction of freedom of information legislation. adjournment debate? But nothing has done more to limit the rights of members of Parliament to information about the You are the Premier of the State; you are the captain operations of various government departments and of the team -- agencies than the Freedom of Information Act.

The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the Honourable members, particularly those members National Party should address the Chair. on the government side, well know that at the time of the controversy about the purchase of land by the Mr McNAMARA - The Premier should address then Housing Commission members of the Labor her team to ensure a better attendance of Ministers Party were given access by the department to all the in the Chamber during debates. You would be relevant files. That did not happen with the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Victorian Economic Development Corporation Parliament we must be mindful of the way we (VEDC), Tricontinental Corporation Ltd or State present ourselves. Bank Victoria. A former Leader of the Parliamentary Labor Party, The Act has resulted in a clampdown on the release the Honourable Frank Wilkes, always made a point of information and a restriction on the rights of of telling new members of the House about the members of Parliament to information. importance of dressing appropriately. I remember one hot, muggy day when Frank was one of the few When the VEDC hit the fence the government used members wearing his suit jacket. He said that no all of the measures available to it to ensure that matter what the temperature he always made a members of Parliament, and everyone else for that point of wearing a suit and tie into the Chamber matter, could not get access to the files. Not only did because he believed that was what his constituents the government ensure that its freedom of expected of him in the position he held. The information legislation restricted access to constituents of Springvale gain nothing from the documentation, but also it transferred the operations demeanour -- of the VEDC to the Rural Finance Corporation, which does not come under -- Mr Gude interjected.

The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the Mr McNAMARA - I have seen the honourable National Party is digressing far more than is member for Springvale at functions outside acceptable from the matter under debate. Parliament: whenever he goes to a function that his constituents may be attending, he always wears a Mr McNAMARA - The point I am attempting suit and a tie! But the honourable member appears to make, Mr Speaker, is that a wide range of issues to think it is somehow smart to come into this must be addressed. Chamber dressed in such a slovenly fashion.

It is worth noting that the bulk of those issues could Mr MICALLEF (Springvale) - On a point of be addressed if the government were committed to order, Mr Speaker, those remarks were implementing straightaway the changes proposed in unparliamentary. I take offence at them and at the the Ministerial statement. If you are prepared to do honourable member's attitude; I ask for a something about Sessional Orders, which you are withdrawal. not prepared to do -- The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable The SPEAKER - Order! It is not for the Chair to member for Springvale has asked that the remarks do something about Sessional Orders! be withdrawn. I ask the Leader of the National Party if he will withdraw them. Mr McNAMARA - If the Premier were prepared to direct members of Cabinet to have the Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National courtesy of attending the Chamber at the Party) - If the honourable member finds it appropriate times such as during the adjournment offensive, I will withdraw the comment. Certainly debate -- we will not have to worry about a dress code for the honourable member for Springvale after the next Mr Gude interjected. election because he will not be a member in this Chamber, as he well knows, and as do two-thirds of Mr McNAMARA - As the Deputy Leader of the government members who will lose their seats at the Liberal Party said, last night we saw the farcical next election. situation where the Minister in charge of the Bill being debated was not in the Chamber! We need to tackle the issues before the House. We do not need a government like the one that has Mr Richardson interjected. introduced rhetoric such as the House has heard this morning; we need a government to try to address Mr McNAMARA - I shall mention the issues in a commonsense and practical fashion and honourable member for Springvale particularly to take up opportunities immediately available to it. because the Leader of the Opposition has talked Until we have that commitment we will not see the about dress codes. Honourable members must reforms that Parliament so desperately needs. recognise that if we are to improve the stature of MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, the 1970s. The Sessional Orders were introduced by Post-Secondary Education and Training) - It is the government of the day to ensure a more effective unfortunate that particularly the response of the debate of legislation in this place, and such Sessional Leader of the Opposition has been to deny that the Orders have been maintained during the past operation of this Parliament is a real issue. He spent decade. almost his entire introductory response by saying tha t we should be discussing everything except the As the honourable member for Lowan knows, a way Parliament operates. By doing so he ignored the number of issues relating to Standing Orders have very important issues outlined this morning by the been the subject of discussion for some time. As the Premier which, at least to a lesser extent, are Premier correctly said, agreement has not been understood by the Leader of the National Party. reached, particularly on the issue of orderly times for debate; that matter has to be negotiated between It is significant that the only two reforms that the the parties. Therefore, the reforms that I would like Leader of the Opposition suggested he would be to see introduced relevant to a number of Standing involved with were, firstly, the introduction of a Orders items have not proceeded. About twelve dress code -which one imagines is rather irrelevant months ago the government placed on the Notice to the quality of debate in this place - and, Paper a number of items concerning Standing secondly, the removal of the offices that the former Orders; however it has been unable to reach Premier, Rupert Hamer, established in the agreement with the two parties opposite. mid-1970s, in which the opposition is now housed. I understand there is concern on the other side about In response to a range of debate and a range of times of debates and about the way in which such reports, the Leader of the Opposition simply says, times should be organised so that the public and, for 'We will have a dress code" and presumably he will that matter, members of Parliament can have more ensure that any women who are on his or the certainty about when particular matters may be National Party's side of the House will wear correct brought on. On a number of occasions the ties and suits; and he will ensure the removal of a government has suggested the adoption of the few temporary partitions. arrangements that appear to work well in the Federal Parliament, particularly concerning the The statement made by the Premier deserves a better organisation of debates and ensuring that and more considered response than that given by government and opposition members have an the Leader of the OppOSition. He has forgotten that opportunity of debating Bills and of knowing exactly the issue of ties and jackets in this place was when such debate will occur. However, this resolved in the 19705 when a number of honourable government has been unable to reach agreement members ceased to wear them here; but that with the other side on that issue. happened not while the Labor Party has been in government but before its election. As with so many Mr Steggall - Maybe you should have had a statements made by the Leader of the OppOSition debate. and Leader of the National Party, they have forgotten what has occurred; they look at Parliament Mr ROPER - I am very interested in the through some variety of rose-coloured glasses! comment of the honourable member for Swan Hill. If he wishes to discuss the matter wi th the I intend to deal with a number of the issues raised by honourable member for Lowan he will be aware that the Leader of the National Party in particular. The we have had extensive discussions on such matters first related to the operation of Sessional Orders and but agreement has not been reached. Standing Orders. On the one hand, the Leader of the Liberal Party said the honourable member for Mr Steggall - In here! Footscray, Robert Forciham, had made a major contribution and that he had a major contribution to Mr ROPER - Therefore, the proposals put make to Parliament; however that statement was forward in the package have not been agreed to. totally negated by the Leader of the National Party who had obviously not listened to what had been On the question of Standing Orders, the proposals said. submitted relate to question time, grievance procedures, the organisation of the House It is incorrect to suggest that the Sessional Orders concerning the duration of speeches, and the that have been introduced are different from those of duration of debates. The Premier made it clear that MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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she and the government would like some progress Mr ROPER - We will see whether the on those matters but agreement is required between honourable member barks or meows when the the parties. Those matters must be further pursued. Companion Animals Bill comes on for debate! Other important reports relate to WorkCare and The Leader of the National Party raised other issues. superannuation. Unfortunately when it suits it the He mentioned the adjoununent debate; I am opposition often ignores the work of Parliamentary damned if I know where he was in the 1970s and the committees. However that does not make the work 1980s, particularly when the honourable member for of the committees less important. The government Berwick was the Leader of the House, because on has continued to fund Parliamentary committees at those occasions the honourable member for Berwick a much higher level than during the 1970s. would simply sit at the table, then get to his feet and say that he would refer all the matters raised to the The Premier's statement also raises other important relevant Ministers. lhat occurred repeatedly at issues, particularly the Parliamentary budget. The adjoununent debates. Often those matters were not government discussed that issue with the followed up. I well remember having to pursue Parliament of Victoria Committee and provided certain matters further on a number of occasions. material indicating how over the past decade funds provided to Parliament have increased to an extent There has been continuing discussion during the slightly higher than the general increase in public past two years about the Standing Orders issue. I expenditure. hope agreement can be reached on the outstanding issues. I recall last year discussing with the Parliamentary committee the way the Federal Parliament sets its Other issues raised include the subject of budget. I directed to its attention the fact that the Parliamentary committees. Many people tend to Federal formula involved the negotiation of a basic forget what occurred in the 1970s when budget figure which had added to it the non-farm Parliamentary committees were basically an avenue domestic product deflator and had subtracted from through which particular honourable members were it a 1.25 efficiency factor. That formula has been able to have their incomes increased. The chief issue accepted by the House of Representatives and is for members of committees was to stay for an hour now the way the budget is calculated for that House. so they could be paid, regardless of whether the It will be interesting to see whether the committee committee had business. has further considered the arrangements entered into by the Federal Parliament. One of the government's major reforms has been the establishment of Standing Committees, as What was the response of the Leader of the demonstrated by the number of reports committees Opposition to that issue? There was virtually no have made to Parliament and the Significantly response at all. With your permiSSion, Mr Speaker, increased funding of committees. In the last Liberal he could do now what he wanted to do: get his Budget $51000 was the total amount provided for hammer and saw and take down some temporary committees as opposed to almost $1.5 million this facilities that were erected by a former Premier and financial year. government. That is the only response the Leader of the Opposition had to the way Parliament should set Mr W. D. McGrath interjected. its budget.

Mr ROPER - Does the honourable member I should have thought the Leader of the OppOSition suggest an increase from $51 000 to $1.5 million would have given careful consideration to this issue. relates solely to inflation? Obviously it does not. It is Obviously it is not a matter that he has considered. a result of the Parliamentary committee structure His thoughts appear to relate only to dress and to a that was set up. Committees were provided with couple of cosmetic changes around the resources for staff and often with resources from Parliamentary buildings. departments associated with the references. Honourable members opposite also referred to A number of important reports have been presented changes that have occurred in the way Parliament by committees. One interesting and detailed report has operated over the past decade. Again they seem relates to companion animals. to look at these things through rose-coloured glasses. In the 1970 autumn session Parliament sat Mr W. D. McGrath interjected. for 16 days or 124 hours. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr Kennett - Boring! Parliamentary committee. In giving evidence before the committee I strongly suggested there needed to Mr ROPER - The Leader of the Opposition says, be improved management of Parliament just as there "Boring". That is his total attitude to this place. He needed to be improved management elsewhere. does not want to deal with the refonn or history of Parliament. He does not want to deal with issues of That is an issue Parliament has not addressed and Significance. In the 1970 autumn session Parliament needs to address, just as the Premier also directed sat for 16 days or 124 hours. In the 1980 autumn attention to the use of Parliamentary privilege and session it sat for 23 days or 212 hours. In the last the need for new arrangements to protect people autumn session Parliament sat for 28 days or 256 who are maligned in this place. hours. This Parliamentary session has been set at well in excess of the average number of days and Today the Premier has in a broad-ranging way hours that were the pattern in the 1970s. discussed the issue of Parliamentary reforms that are required. She has suggested that this place has a The government has also introduced a number of responsibility to reform itself. other changes. Parliament is meeting late at night less often. I believe that has been a sensible and What we need from the opposition is a more useful refonn. The National Party had a different considered response than the suggestion that we view because it wrote and asked what its members should simply all wear ties. That is not a response to were going to do on Wednesday nights! the problems of Parliament or Victoria, and the Parliament deserves better from the opposition than Mr Steggall-That's rubbish! it has so far given us.

Mr ROPER - Unfortunately that is what was Parliament also needs something more than the said. They have obviously found things to do on opposition's type of undergraduate humour as Wednesday nights. demonstrated in its amendment. Rather than talking about the substance of this place and the substance Mr Cole - They're going to the cricket! of the Ministerial statement, the Leader of the Opposition chooses to ignore that and to ignore the Mr ROPER - They are going to the cricket need for change and refonn. tOnight. I hope they can go and watch Australia play next week as well. The government addressed a Parliament has been well-served today by the ridiculous practice and discontinued late sittings on Premier setting out considered views about the Wednesday nights. If the government could future of this place. I hope the more sensible reorganise Tuesdays it would also do that because members of the opposition will prevail upon the there is no sense in having this place sit late at night. Leader of the OppOSition to come up with a sensible response. Parliament needs a sensible response to Mr Maughan - It is all right for you to ride your reform proposals, not something that simply ignores bike home to Brunswick! issues that the Leader of the Opposition does not want to address. Mr ROPER - I am talking about how people operate sensibly. People do not operate sensibly by Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - The Ministerial staying in their workplaces until after midnight, statement presented by the Premier today reflects especially when their days commence early in the ten years of abuse by the Labor Party in government. morning. That refonn, which was introduced over It is a deathbed confession. the past two years, has made the pOSition of members of Parliament a lot better. If we could It is also stealing the dothes of an all-party improve the arrangements for the calling on of Parliamentary committee of inquiry. It is debates and their duration we could continue with pre-empting the work of members of this House reforms of the hours this place sits. I simply make who have invested a lot of time and effort into trying the point that, compared with the 1970s, this place to produce a sensible outcome for Parliament. meets on more days and for more hours. Indeed, as current as this very moment, when the House concludes there is to be a meeting of that The Premier suggested a number of other reforms, committee to give further consideration to its own not the least of which is the management of report - a report that has dearly been stolen by the Parliament. This issue is also being examined by a MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Premier - and one has to ask why she wants to Mr GUDE - The Leader of the House interjected steal that report on this particular occasion. that the matter came up through a former Premier, Lindsay Thompson, when he was Leader of the If one examines the process, the activity and the way House, and I was waiting for him to come up with the Premier conducts herself and has been doing so that interjection because the truth of the matter, over a number of months, one sees that an event a since we have had a dearth of truth in this House day keeps the election away, and we have yet today from the government benches, is that in one another event and stunt. sessional period alone that Sessional Order was moved to guarantee the passage of government Unfortunately for the Premier it has backfired on her business, and the Leader of the House well knows yet again. We have before us a most unfortunate set that that is the truth. To try to suggest that it was of circumstances and the original debate was marred anything else is certainly a gross dishonesty. He is very badly by an interjection from the honourable silent now because he knows that what I am saying member for Springvale when he effectively called is the absolute truth. the Leader of the Opposition a liar with respect to the non-attendance in this House of a Minister when What we have seen is the processes of Parliament dealing with a particular Bill. He was ultimately altered through the Sessional Orders. The rights of forced to back down -- honourable members have been denied. Not once, not twice, but for ten years the government has been Mr MICALLEF (Springvale) - On a point of in here controlling the processes of Parliament and order, Mr Speaker, the Deputy Leader of the denying the opposition the access the Labor Party Opposition is going overboard in referring to an enjoyed year after year when it was the opposition. incident that has been dealt with and properly settled, and to use it in that context is a bit below the Now that it is on its deathbed the government has belt. the gall to bring in this sort of statement to seek to make changes. The Leader of the House knows full He should be directed to conduct himself with well that he could use the Sessional Orders decorum in this place rather than stooping to the provisions if the government felt so strongly about gutter tactics that he is using now. I ask him to the changes proposed in the remarks made earlier withdraw and I ask you to direct him not to use that by the Premier, but the government does not have style of debate. the courage to do that.

The SPEAKER - Order! The Deputy Leader of It seeks to hide behind an all-party committee of the Opposition did appear to be referring to an inquiry into this area, but the opposition points to interjection which has been withdrawn. It is issues such as Grievance Days and the problems it therefore inappropriate for him to refer to it, and I has had in trying to achieve a proper grievance ask him not to make any further references to it, and procedure. to confine himself to the rules of debate in this House. I uphold the point of order. It has not been an accident that the government has run the House in such a way that there would be no Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - I am sorry that the Grievance Days either in this sessional period or in honourable member for Springvale is such a the last sessional period, and it has been a sensitive little soul, because the fact is that over a requirement on myself as opposition Leader of the long period in this House we have seen a succession House and my colleague, the Deputy Leader of the of abuses, starting on day one, effectively, when the National Party, to effectively go with the begging government came to office and the then Leader of bowl to the Leader of the House to plead for those the House, the honourable member for Footscray, days in Parliament. moved Sessional Orders which had the effect of changing and removing rights of the opposition to Why is it that the government has cut them back? It raise matters on motions and adjournment debates knows full well that when we have raised matters on Tuesdays and Wednesdays of the sittings of the with respect to the Victorian Economic Development House, rights which the Labor Party, in opposition, Corporation, State Bank Victoria and Tricontinental had used week after week. and a whole raft of seams, misdemeanours and poor performances by members of the government those Mr Roper - That was Lindsay Thompson's matters have often been raised on Grievance Days. Sessional Order. You weren't even paying attention! MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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In the committee system we have seen a complete reference from the government. It has had three abuse of the processes, and earlier today the Leader references from the House and it has two ongoing of the Opposition referred to the fact that no references, but it has not had a solitary reference reference at all had been made to the Natural from three Attorneys-General. Resources and Environment Committee for quite some time. Another aspect of committee procedures that is of concern to all honourable members, especially to Surprise, surprise! Within half an hour of the those who have been involved with committees, is honourable member raising that matter in this the way the Cain and Kirner governments have House, a quick reference had been worked out and consistently denied committees the resources given to that committee. Could that be a coincidence necessary to carry out their activities. The reason is or is that just another example of the way in which clear. The committee process is slowed down so that the government performs? committees cannot dig and delve to discover issues that will embarrass the government. What it tells us is that the government is guilty yet again of trying to change the processes and of It is appropriate that the Minister for Transport is manipulating Parliament. Even before our eyes currently at the table. The other place established a while we are part of this particular debate we are Select Committee on Government Appointments, seeing the same processes take place. and that committee has been seeking to have the Minister appear before it. It wants to speak to him Earlier in the Premier's remarks she made specific about certain payments, deals and other matters in reference to a Budget allocation of money to be which he has been involved. It wants the Minister to made for the rwming of Parliament. explain his role in the process. However the Minister is using his right not to appear before the committee Sitting suspended 1 p.m. until 2.3 p.m. to make an explanation. That is obviously because he has something to hide. He knows he is guilty. Mr GUDE -Prior to the suspension of the sitting I was remarking on the prospective funding for the Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, rwming of the House, which is referred to in the Post-Secondary Education and Training) - On a Ministerial statement. That matter requires some point of order, Mr Speaker, this debate relates to the attention. It is not long ago that the Leader of the Ministerial statement and the amendment to it House was the Treasurer and he was approached by moved by the Leader of the OppOSition. The debate officers of the House for a Budget allocation. He does not refer to Legislative Council committees and denied access to the very thing that is now proposed cannot refer to them because any matter debated in by the Premier. In the space of only a few months this Chamber must relate to the Legislative the government is backtracking on that issue. I am Assembly. I ask you, Sir, to direct the Deputy Leader not sure whether the proposal in the Ministerial of the Opposition back to the Ministerial statement. statement goes all the way in terms of a separate budget. The honourable member for Berwick Mr MACLELLAN (Berwick) - On the point of informs me by interjection that it does not. Once order, Mr Speaker, I urge you to reject the Minister's again, honourable members are witnessing a process point of order. The Ministerial statement invites of manipulation which seems to be the hallmark of debate on reform of Parliament. The Leader of the this outgoing government. House has already spoken in the debate, and it ill behoves him to try to stop other people expressing Earlier I made reference to the way Parliamentary their views about aspects of Parliament they believe committees do not meet, and I referred particularly should be in the statement or those areas that are to the Natural Resources and Environment included in it. Committee. Only 30 minutes after the Leader of the OppOSition made that point the government The mere fact that it is embarrassing for the provided the committee with a reference. government that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition chooses to speak about the failure of the Other committees also have difficulty in attracting Minister for Transport to take the opportunity of references from this tired, worn out, incompetent talking to an Upper House committee does not mean government. The Legal and Constitutional it should not be part of the agenda and discussion on Committee has survived three Attorneys-General in Parliamentary reform. two years, but it is still waiting patiently for a MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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It cannot be held to be appropriate for the Leader of have ever seen a Minister of the Crown perform as the House to fart and leave; that is, to speak himself poorly as the Treasurer did today. and then try to stop other members from doing so. The Ministerial statement is nothing more than The SPEAKER - Order! I suggest that the another of the stunts and diversions that have honourable member for Berwick use language that is become the background to the way in which the more becoming. Premier works, but today she has been caught with her proverbial pants down because the process has As to the point of order raised by the Leader of the backfired. House, I refer honourable members to Standing Order No. 95, which clearly precludes references of We have seen the total exposure of a Minister of the the type made by the Deputy Leader of the Crown, the Minister for Food and Agriculture. He Opposition. I ask him not to refer to any matter has been skulking around the corridors looking after pending in the other place. his own interests and trying to plan for the future by setting up situations that relate to his role as the Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - A process of cover-up Leader of the OppOSition. He has been exposed! The and conniving has been going on in this place since honourable member for Springvale has been the day this discredited government came to power. exposed, but as this matter has been raised on One wonders what would happen if the government several occasions, I shall not describe the way he controlled both Houses of Parliament. Honourable deliberately misled the House today. However, it members know what happened in one brief week shows the cynicism of a government that is when legislation dealing with WorkCare, dangerous absolutely dead in the water. goods and other matters slipped through the Upper House because of another scandal - the We have also seen the lacklustre performance of Nunawading how-to-vote card scandal. Ministers in this House when, night after night, week after week, year after year, they have not I refer to the Premier's maiden speech on 29 June attended adjournment debates and are not prepared 1982 when she said -- to face up to the questions and matters that are raised for their attention. One Minister was not The SPEAKER - Order! I again direct the present when his own piece of legislation was attention of the honourable member for Hawthorn brought into the House last night. We should use to Standing Order No. 95, which states: our time in this place as a tool rather than a couch.

No member shall allude to any debate in the other This selfish and incompetent government is House of Parliament... constantly out to lunch. It is not here when the real issues are debated. The government is keen to cover I ask the honourable member to confine his remarks up the processes of the Parliament. The matter that to matters within Standing Orders. is now before the House is nothing more than that.

Mr GUDE - On an occasion in another place the I conclude by picking up a remark the Premier made present Premier indicated a clear desire to abolish when the Leader of the Opposition was speaking. It the Legislative Council, and one wonders whether, relates specifically to the continuance of this debate. had the government been in control of both Houses I hope that the government will allow the debate to of Parliament, the issue we face today would have continue and that it will not run from this one and gone farther than it has. At that time the Premier move that the debate be adjourned. was against review and scrutiny, but now as she faces her finale she proposes to radically change the Mr MA THEWS (Oakleigh) -It is a test for processes of the Parliament to try to bolster the Parliaments and their members to recognise the Australian Labor Party in opposition. watersheds and turning points that sometimes occur in their affairs. It is a test to discuss those watersheds At question time today the Treasurer blundered and with the seriousness they deserve and recognise the mumbled and bumbled through the first question he opportunities they present. received for about 16 minutes. I do not know whether that is a record but it must be close. In all It is absurd that this Parliament should be described my time as a member of this place I do not think I as the only Parliament in Australia or the world which is experiencing the sorts of problems to which MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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today's Ministerial statement is a response. The fact The proceedings of the Select Committee on the is that, as the Fitzgerald report reminded us as Victorian Parliament, which I chair conjointly with recently as two years ago, every Parliament in the honourable member for Narracan, have been Australia is suffering from the difficulties that cry conducted in a spirited atmosphere which is at total out for Parliamentary reform. variance to the debate that has gone on in this House today. Every Parliament in Australia has members who glance up to see the schoolchildren in the gallery at The Select Committee has recognised that reform is question time and blush for what those children see absolutely necessary. It has refrained consistently happening on the floor of the House. Every from scoring the sorts of pitiful points we have seen Parliament in Australia has had its gallery full of scored earlier in today's debate. citizens watching an important debate taking place with a fraction of the membership of the Parliament Mr Honeywood interjected. present, so that the citizens are wondering what they pay their members of Parliament to do. Every Mr MA THEWS - There was consensus on the Parliament in Australia has in the core of its secret committee that its members would seek better ways heart the feeling that it is not held in high regard by for things to be done, with a common dedication to the community and that the community does not creating a better Parliament. As a result we were believe it treats its responsibilities with the able to bring forward the interim report on how the seriousness they deserve. financial affairs of the Parliament should be organised because we saw that as a matter I take it as a mark of the maturity of this Parliament absolutely essential and crucial to the independence that you, Mr Speaker, and the President of the of the Parliament and how it was able to go about its Legislative Council recognised at the outset of the business. post-1988 Parliament that reform was needed. You, Sir, and the President set in train a course of events Mr Maclellan interjected. which has logically and systematically led us forward to today's Ministerial statement. It was you, Mr MA THEWS - I take up the interjection of the Mr Speaker, and the President who commissioned honourable member for Berwick that the Premier Kevin Foley and Bill Russell to prepare the strategic has pre-empted this process. The Premier has done review of the Victorian Parliament. nothing of the kind. This report was presented to Parliament before it rose prior to Christmas and Let it not be suggested that today's Ministerial required a response. statement was some bright idea which suddenly occurred to one of the Premier's advisers last week. Mr Cooper interjected. This was a course on which the Speaker of this House and the President of the other place set this Mr MA THEWS - As the honourable member Parliament over two years ago. The result of that for Mornington well knows, it is a report; and that foresight in COmmiSSioning the strategic review has report puts forward recommendations for been that for the best part of nine months we have implementation in the context of the 1992-93 Budget had before us a systematic and constructive set of year and requires a response. In other words, what proposals for the improvement of this place and its we saw from the Premier today was no artificial procedures, the way we go about our business and contrivance, as honourable members opposite have the atmosphere in which it is conducted. tried to suggest, but was the Premier responding to a report properly and sensibly put forward by a Select As a result of the report being available to the Committee in conformity with the requirements of Parliament, the Honourable Mark Birrell in another the procedures and forms of this House. The place took the initiative by moving that a Select honourable member for Mornington served on that Committee of both Houses of Parliament should be committee in a constructive spirit very much in established for the purpose of giving the proposals contrast with the artificial sneers he is now and arguments in the report the sort of analytical producing. consideration they require in order that consensus on Parliamentary reform be reached. At the same I turn to the content of the Ministerial statement. The time, other members of Parliament, drawn from statement picks up the point from the report of the both sides of the House, embarked on a similar Select Committee that Parliament should for the first process with the Standing Orders of the House. time in its history have the right of financial MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 89 independence; that there should be a separate I suggest that if the Premier had not responded to appropriation Bill for Parliament; and that the the report of the Select Committee when she did she preparation of that Bill should be backed up by a would have been open to censure by this House. committee representative of both sides of Honourable members opposite who have led in this Parliament, while at the same time having the sort of debate would have been the first to condemn the executive input from a Minister nominated by the Premier for her failure to respond. government of the day that would enable the Bill to be prepared on a realistic and responsible basis. However, there are matters in the Ministerial Those procedures and that type of legislation have statement that are equal in importance to budgetary never previously been available to the Victorian independence. I remember vividly when the Parliament. ordinary Parliamentary structure of legislatures throughout Australia was limited to, at the most, Until today I was under the impression that the need two committees. The characteristic structure was for financial independence and the process that on the one hand there would be a public involving an independent appropriation Bill were accounts committee and on the other hand, in some matters on which there was consensus among all instances but not all, there would be a Parliamentary members of Parliament. It astonishes me that the public works committee. The nature of those two sensible and constructive atmosphere in which committees was essentially that of watchdogs: a discussions took place about these matters in public accounts committee to ensure that meetings of the Select Committee, and the expenditures were undertaken in conformity with agreement and consensus I believe was reached in the appropriations of Parliament, and a public the Select Committee, could not have been works committee to determine that the proposed introduced in this Chamber to characterise what I capital works were the most economic and effective believe to be one of the most important discussions ways of tackling the needs of the society they were that has taken place in this Parliament. intended to serve.

What emerges from this debate today will colour In subsequent times we have seen the committee how the Victorian Parliament goes about its business systems associated with Australian Parliaments for literally decades to come. What we decide today expand very Significantly. That expansion dates will determine for future honourable members of from when the late and distinguished Lionel this place who at this stage are not yet members of Murphy, as Leader of the Opposition in the Senate political parties how they will be able to discharge in the 1960s, moved to establish Senate Select their future Parliamentary obligations. Committees on air pollution, water pollution and the cost of health care and health insurance in What we determine today flowing from the Australia. Ministerial statement will determine in what sort of respect the community will hold Parliament in the The reports produced by those committees remain future and, most importantly, how effectively admired models of their kind, benchmarks against Parliament is able to go about the conduct of the which committee investigations have subsequently affairs of Victoria and Victorians. been judged. The real significance of the committees established at the instigation of Lionel Murphy in At the outset I hope I have established to the the late 1960s was that they moved away from the satisfaction of the House that the core undertakings previous watchdog model and introduced to given by the Premier in her Ministerial statement Australia the notion of Parliamentary committees as reflect the recommend a tions of the Select Commi ttee investigatory and recommendatory bodies that on the Victorian Parliament and are in broad could carry further the process of policy making on conformity with the consensus of that Select a basis that had previously been out of our reach. Committee; that the Premier's Ministerial statement as it concerns the independent conduct by the The reforms of the committee system in this Parliament of its financial affairs and the Parliament that were undertaken very substantially introduction of a separate appropriation Bill for the at the instigation of the honourable member for Parliament is in conformity with the normal Footscray in the early 1980s very much reflected requirements of the principles and practice of this Parliament's conclusion that there were Parliament that there should be a Ministerial investigatory and recommendatory functions that response to a report of any committee of the could be performed far better by members of the Parliament within a specified period. House working in a committee situation than could MINISTERIAL STATEM~NT

90 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ever be achieved on the open floor of either this honourable member for Rodney, who interjects, was Chamber or the other place. also impressed - by the seriousness with which the seminar attacked the problem of bringing up to date On the basis of the ten years of experience that we our Standing Orders and by the consensus that has have had of the new committee system - with the been achieved around the report on the Standing Legal and Constitutional Committee, the Economic Orders which was the subject of the seminar. and Budget Review Committee, the Social Development Committee and the rest - we are It must come as a bitter disappointment to members entitled to conclude that the experiment that the of Parliament like the honourable member for honourable member for Footscray put in train at the Rodney that the atmosphere of the proceedings in beginning of the 1980s concerning committees has which he was a participant on that evening has not been a success; but we are also entitled to conclude now been transferred into this Chamber so that we that it has been a qualified success and that as the can here, as we did there, tackle these crucial issues system moves along into its second decade it is due in a constructive spirit, free of the sort of acrimony for review, change and strengthening and a further and recrimination that have characterised the earlier broadening of its horizons. stages of this debate.

The second reason that I welcome the Ministerial I have no doubt that in introducing the Ministerial statement made by the Premier today is that she has statement today the Premier has presented given her imprimatur to precisely that process of Parliament with an historic opportunity to put its review and strengthening of the committee system affairs in order and to take a major positive step which each of us who serves on those Parliamentary towards regaining the respect in the eyes of the committees, who values those committees and who community that each of us knows in his heart we in believes the Parliamentary committees are moving this Parliament and our counterparts in other to the heart of the Parliamentary system in this Parliaments throughout Australia have lost through country - and thank God for that! - would want to our debauching of the system in recent years. see carried out. Mr Honeywood - Where were you ten years If anybody doubts that what I am saying is correct I ago? recommend very strongly that he read the book produced by lan Marsh of the Australian Graduate Mr MATHEWS - The honourable member for School of Management of the University of New Warrandyte asks me where I was ten years ago. I South Wales. It is remarkable that it has taken an was in this Parliament sitting roughly where he sits Australian academic to produce an incisive analysis, today, and let it be noted that as a member of the under the title Policy Making in a Three Party System, then opposition I was being subjected to the same of a committee system that was introduced in the sorts of tactics from the government of the day as House of Commons at the beginning of the 1980s at those that have been the subject of complaint today the instigation of the Thatcher government. Let me in the course of the debate. say that I believe the committee system introduced by the Thatcher government in the Parliament of Mr Plowman interjected. Westminster very much reflects the next steps that we in this Parliament should be thinking about Mr MATHEWS - The honourable member for taking. I recommend that book to every member of Evelyn says that was not the case. However, as the this Parliament who has the confidence in the scope Speaker of the day, he knows -- of a system of Parliamentary committees, which are already performing well, to do better on behalf of Honourable members interjecting. this Parliament and the people we represent. The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable The third component of the Ministerial statement is members for Evelyn and Springvale are both the guarantees that the Premier has offered us interjecting in a disorderly manner. regarding the Standing Orders of Parliament. I was very impressed by the seminar that the Standing Mr MATHEWS - I say to the honourable Orders Committee, representative as it is of all member for Evelyn with every respect and goodwill parties in Parliament, held here recently. I was not that in his time as Speaker he had the onerous task able to attend all the proceedings of that seminar but of controlling a House which was a discredit to itself I was once again impressed - as I hope the then as is the case today, and he should be the first MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 91 to recognise the pertinence and indeed the provisions for 1992-93 and seeking to embrace the indispensability of the changes to which the Premier experiences through which each and every one of us has addressed herself in the Ministerial statement. who now sit in this Parliament have passed in the course of our Parliamentary careers stretching back Mr Plowman interjected. two or perhaps three decades to ensure that tomorrow is different. Mr MATHEWS - The honourable member asks me, 'Why now?" Again I suggest to him with all Mr COOPER (Morning ton) - We have just goodwill that that is the sort of question that will heard a half hour address from the honourable stop the House moving forward. I take no pride in member for Oakleigh who attempted to make a much of what has characterised this Parliament and statesman-like statement to this House. It is from a its management over the past decade and I am man who has been a senior member of the confident that the honourable member for Evelyn government for the past ten years, much of which he similarly takes no pride in much of what he was spent as a member of the frontbench where he was obliged to preside over as Speaker of this place in a position to influence change but clearly failed. during the years of conservative government. Can He has failed to do so because it suited the purposes we not put behind us the sort of recrimination of the Labor Party and the government to have a arising from his experiences or from mine and rather system where it could muzzle and constrain address ourselves to the future and how we can Parliament; it could pre-empt and quieten members make it better than the past? of the opposition as much as it liked.

This is an opportunity if ever the Parliament has had That is precisely what has happened over the past one of making a clean break with the past. We are ten years. There has been an appeal in the past 2 able to proceed on the basis of carefully thought out minutes by the honourable member for Oakleigh to proposals commissioned on a bipartisan basis by make changes immediately, with haste, with speed. you, Mr Speaker, and the President, and supported I He said, "Let us have change with speed". Why does believe by a broad consensus among members of the honourable member call for changes with speed? this Parliament. Because he, like all of his colleagues, have the smell of defeat in their nostrils. Government members are We are able to proceed on the basis of the interim headed for this side of the House and, as the report brought down by the Parliament of Victoria Ministerial statement has been described by the Committee, and we are able to proceed on the basis Leader of the Opposition, it is a transition into of an immense volume of scholarly and literary opposition by the Premier; it is an agenda for change material, of which the book by Ian Marsh is only one to enable the government when in opposition to outstanding example and which is further better mobilise itself in opposition. exemplified by the work of the Society for the Study of Parliament. It has nothing to do with democracy or Parliamentary reform; it represents hypocrisy and This is an historic opportunity. We let down not double standards by the honourable member for only ourselves but those who will come after us in Oakleigh. this place and those for whom we and they will speak, if we do not recognise the historic quality of Mr Mathews interjected. the opportunity which the Ministerial statement provides for us. We must put behind us the scars, Mr COOPER - This afternoon the opposition disappointments and injuries of the past. We must has heard the honourable member's double focus now on the body of positive proposals which standard, and the hypocrisy is there for all to see. It are available for our consideration, reach a decision is ten years too late for the honourable member for quickly as the report recommends -- Oakleigh to make statements about Parliamentary reform. He has had his opportunities but failed to Mr Cooper interjected. deliver. All the honourable member is doing is toadying to the Premier, crawling along behind her, Mr MA THEWS - I refer to the report of the licking at the statements that he has before him. committee to which the honourable member for Mornington who now interjects was a party The SPEAKER - Order! I suggest the recommending that the new appropriation Bill for honourable member stick to the subject matter the Parliament should be part of the budgetary rather than personal attack. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr COOPER - This Ministerial statement is in the Chamber. I have raised matters but have today's diversion by the government. The agenda is never received a substantive reply later from a to keep the media away from what is really Minister. If I receive a few words from a Minister happening to this State. The mind boggles at what who happens to be in the Chamber that is all I get, or will happen tomorrow and next week. What will the I may receive only a promise that further action will government come up with next? It has probably take place, but it never does. occurred to the government that it might want to change the Victorian flag because it has the Union If the Minister is not in the Chamber and the Jack in the corner. I am sure that has not escaped its Minister at the table says he will refer the matter to attention. Probably the Crown will be taken off a the particular Minister, one never receives a reply. number of objects around the place. These are Ministers do not care. That is a prime example of the distractions to try to get people's minds off the contempt with which the government treats this economic disasters that have been perpetrated on Parliament. the State by the government under the leadership of the honourable member for Bundoora and the Suddenly on the eve of an election there is a call for Premier. Parliamentary reform. Why? After ten years the government says that it wants to make Parliament The hypocrisy of the statement is breathtaking and more meaningful and able to address issues. One has brought contempt of Parliament to an art form. does not have to be a genius to work out the reasons Evidence of that is available on every day of sitting why. We know why, the media knows why and the of this House. people of the State will know why. They know the statement has come from a pack of hypocrites. The Ministerial statement has been introduced because the smell of electoral defeat has invaded the Let us examine some of the matters referred to in the nostrils of every government member. They Premier's Ministerial statement on Parliamentary recognise that defeat is on the way and that they will reform. be in opposition after the next election. The statement is a way of ensuring that they will have a The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable better deal in opposition than the present opposition member for Mornington is well aware that he has has had. That must taint the statement in the eyes of. used an unparliamentary term; I ask him to the Parliament and the Victorian public. They will withdraw. see it for what it is -nothing more than a diversionary attempt on behalf of the members on Mr COOPER - I withdraw. Let us examine a the government side who support the statement. couple of matters referred to in the Ministerial statement. I certainly will not have time to go You, Mr Speaker, like other members have seen the through them all; I do not want to take up my full way Parliament has been treated by members of the speaking time because I know many honourable government, particular by Ministers. Other members members want to join in this debate and they will who have already contributed to the debate, and have contributions to make on other matters. others who will follow, have referred to the adjournment debate. Mr Speaker, this matter has Reference has been made to Sessional Orders. It is been brought to your attention on more than one important for honourable members to recognise that occasion over the past few years by me and by many the government has been in control of the agenda, members on this side of the House, such as the not necessarily under Standing Orders but under honourable member for Caulfield who has spoken Sessional Orders introduced by the government in many times on the question of the contemptuous an attempt to by-pass and override the Standing way in which Ministers treat Parliament on the Orders of Parliament. In doing so, the government adjournment debate, as have the honourable has changed the agenda as it relates to the members for Glen Waverley and Warrnambool. opportunity for private members to stand up in this Nothing has been done about it. House and raise issues of public importance.

There have been adjournment debates when no It is most important that the government recognise it Ministers have been present in the Chamber. They has attempted to muzzle private members in this have come in half way through the debate. There are House. This document takes the attempt at muzzling no replies from Ministers on matters that have been even further down the track. At the top of page 6 of raised, irrespective of whether the Minister has been her statement, the Premier said: MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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There are particular concerns at the reduction in the Ministerial statement so that members of the number of questions without notice asked and opposition could debate it. answered ... The government has ignored its responsibility. It has I ask honourable members to consider: whose fault turned question time into a shambles and a debacle. is that? Today honourable members were provided It is no wonder that members of the opposition with a good example of whose fault it is. Four become frustrated and interject. Although such questions were asked; it would be begging the behaviour does not add to the spectacle of question question to say that four questions were answered, time and it makes your job, Mr Speaker, more but certainly four Ministers rose to their feet, giving difficult than it already is, the reason it goes on, as I what they would like us to believe was a reply to said, is that the government has turned question those questions. One Minister, the Treasurer, time into a debacle. occupied some 15 minutes of the 3O-minute question time. That was just prior to the Premier getting to For the Premier to come in here and talk about her feet and saying: "concerns at the reduction in the number of questions without notice" is just mind boggling in its There are particular concerns at the reduction in the daring. I hesitate to use a more appropriate number of questions without notice asked and description because I know that you, Mr Speaker, answered ... will call me to order.

Of course there should be concerns about that! The consistent abuse of question time will not be However, I invite honourable members to reflect on solved by the mealy-mouthed hypocrisy reflected in whether those concerns are new. The answer is that the words used in the Premier's statement when she they cannot possibly be new because they have been said: around since at least 1985, when I became a member of this House, and I know that they existed before There are particular concerns at the reduction in the that. number of questions without notice asked and answered ... The government has turned question time into a debacle and then it has the audacity, the hide and Further down on page 6 of the Premier's Ministerial the hypocrisy to say that question time does not statement, honourable members read that the operate properly because of interjections from Premier has decided that the time is now right for honourable members on this side of the House! The grievance debates to be held more regularly. She cause of the interjections is the frustration said: experienced by honourable members on this side of the House when Ministers stand up and use .. , a grievance debate to be held on a more regular and question time to make what amount to Ministerial frequent basis (every third Thursday on which the statements. They do so in answer to dorothy dix Assembly sits) ... questions from backbenchers who have been organised to ask the questions before the sitting That is wonderful! As previous speakers have noted, commences. Ministers do not reply for 2, 3 or 4 consideration should be given to whose minutes; they stand up and provide answers that go responsibility it is that grievance debates have not on for 15 minutes! been held. The answer, of course, is that this government is responsible through the Sessional Mr Speaker, you will recall that on occasion Orders it has put in place. Whenever it wanted to Ministerial answers have extended well beyond 10 provide the opportunity for a grievance debate, it minutes and you have felt obliged to get to your feet could have, as it had the necessary power to do so. and ask a Minister to shorten an answer. One of the The government has not exercised that power. worst culprits in this regard has been the Premier. During question time she gets up and consistently Members of the opposition have had the makes what amount to Ministerial statements. opportunity to take part in a grievance debate only Today she did that when she replied to a question after protest and appeal. For example, I am aware about Coode Island. Virtually during every question that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition has been time the Premier gets up and makes a long attempting to discuss the matter of grievance statement that would be better made in the form of a debates available during this session with the Leader of the House. Finally two days were set aside for a MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

94 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 grievance debate to be conducted during the current problem exists for the government, it should extend session. One of those is Maundy Thursday, the day the Sitting days of Parliament so that members can before Good Friday. Honourable members know exercise their right to speak. Not this government. It why that day has been chosen. The answer is that no says Parliament will sit on fewer days and that newspapers will be available the following day. Of honourable members will have the time they are course, one could say that that would not have been allowed to speak reduced even further! The done deliberately; the Leader of the House would government is exposed for what it is. not be so cynical! Uke heck he would not! Of course he has done that deliberately! He has done it in an Mr Speaker, a Ministerial statement is normally an attempt to muzzle debate and take it out of the important document. This statement was introduced public arena. Here is another example of how the by the Premier so it is a big deal! It is about the government treats Parliament with contempt and reform of Parliament. It is the government's attempts to prevent debates being conducted in contribution to Parliamentary debate in Victoria, but Parliament being reported in the media. there are only four members of the government in the Chamber! The Premier is not here to listen to the The media suffers from the actions of the debate. It is an indication of the contempt the government. Clearly members of the media are government has for the institution of Parliament. becoming sick and tired of having the news Surely the government could do better than the four predigested and packaged for them rather than members who are currently in the Chamber! having the raw material that they can in.terpret. Under the heading "Scheduling of Debates", cloaked The Premier said also: in language that must be read carefully, it states:

The government now supports change ... to achieve in Fixed times for second-reading debates would assist particular: both members and the public . ... reduction of time limits on speeches in debates Of course, Parliament will assist the public by (with discretion to the Speaker to extend the time having fixed times for debates! The statement then allowed if a member's rights are unreasonably says: affected by interruptions) ... . That is wonderful! That is great! Here is an example A necessary corollary of set times for debates will be of cloaking action by describing it in different agreement to a definite duration for debates. language. The government seeks to reduce the rights of private members. Currently my time to speak as a We will chop them off at the knees. Important private member is limited. I am allowed 30 minutes debates will have set times. The community is in an ordinary debate such as this, 20 minutes concerned about the Companion Animals Bill. That during a grievance debate, and during an is the type of Bill on which debate would be limited adjournment debate my right to speak is limited to 5 to a set period. We would probably need minutes. The government is proposing to reduce my loudspeakers out in Spring Street. The public would speaking time in at least two of those three not be too happy about having its representatives, instances - that is, during a general debate and members of Parliament, chopped off in mid-stride during the grievance debate. during that debate because of a Standing Order that the government proposes to introduce. They would The government uses the guillotine to chop off want their members of Parliament to have the ability debate whenever it feels like doing so. It has the to express the point of view of the constituents they power to do that at any time. If the government represent. That is precisely what we are elected to seeks to reduce the time allowed to private members do. It is why we are here. It seems to have escaped to speak in any debate in Parliament, it has some the attention of the person who wrote the document. explaining to do to the people who private members I congratulate the honourable member for Oakleigh are elected to represent. It is my right and the right on his authorship and the person who read the of every other private member of this House to take document, the Premier! Members of Parliament are part in every debate on every Bill introduced into elected to represent the views and concerns of their this House. That right is not available to be used constituents. because the government does not allow debates to continue. The debates on Bills are guillotined and The government says it will set certain time limits the length of Parliamentary sessions is restricted. If a for debate on Bills so that it will be easier for the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 95 public, but in doing so it is really intending to Premier at the conclusion of her statement when she muzzle debate, to prevent people from making their said: point and representing their constituents properly. I challenge all of the honourable members present, on No-one on the government side should try to both sides of the House, to take up the cause of misrepresent the concerns of honourable members Parliamentary reform seriously and to support the on this side of the House. The opposition has made package of measures which I have proposed. it clear that it will consider reforms to Parliament and Standing Orders, but it will not do it in a rushed It was indicated previously that the challenge would way as is being urged upon it by the Premier. not be met by many honourable members. If we are to have meaningful discussions and a considered The opposition knows why the Premier has response to this important document - I consider it introduced this Ministerial statement. It is to aid the important - all 88 members of this House should Labor Party when it is in opposition after the next have the opportunity of participating in the debate. election, when the Minister for Food and Agriculture This is what the Victorian Parliament is all about: hopes to have the leadership of his party. The looking forward. We can look back and indulge in opposition is aware of his aspirations and that he is recrimination and say all sorts of things, but that white-anting his Leader. will not achieve anything.

Mr Baker interjected. The Ministerial statement is a focal point from which the House can commence a meaningful debate about Mr COOPER - The Minister can bluster all he the way it should proceed in the future. likes, but he knows he was caught out badly during Parliamentary reform is long overdue. question time this morning. One only had to look at his face to see that he was caught out. Better still the The statement raises many issues about which I have look on the Premier's face was a classic. Talk about expressed concern over time to honourable members frozen! The Premier was frozen. The Minister will on both sides of the Chamber. get 100 licks when he is next alone with the Premier. He is in big trouble. He has been caught out again I am sure all honourable members have experienced white-anting his Leader. sadness and embarrassment when groups of children from their electorates watch what could be Honourable members interjecting. best described as disgraceful performances by all the members of this House; and afterwards in Queen's The SPEAKER - Order! The Minister for Food Hall the members find it necessary to try to explain and Agriculture and the honourable member for rationally what it was all about. I find it difficult, as I Malvern are giving the place the appearance of a am sure do honourable members from both sides of rabble and I ask them both to remain silent while the the House. honourable member for Mornington completes his remarks. Only last year a group of students from the Warrnambool Secondary College visited Parliament. Mr COOPER - The opposition will not reject They were so disgusted and so moved by what they decent reform of the Parliamentary system, but it saw that each child wrote to me expressing his or will not be galloped into reforms by the introduction her disgust and concern about the immaturity and of a crazy statement introduced in the dying days of the disgraceful behaviour perpetrated on that day. I a decaying government. Reform of the was moved by their letters and I rang the teacher Parliamentary process can occur through the and asked that I be allowed to speak to the children. goodwill of government. It is clear that over the past I did speak to them and found that they were ten years this government has not had that goodwill. completely disgusted and they could not understand No-one will swallow this bait during the last days of why responsible elected persons could carry on in this government. The opposition will give serious such a way. consideration to the issue when in government during the next four years and will introduce proper After speaking to them I was so moved that I asked reforms. their permission to direct their letters to the Presiding Officer of this House. Mr Speaker took the Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warrnambool) - I welcome time to consider the letters and, through me, wrote the opportunity to accept the challenge issued by the back to the students in an endeavour to explain the MINISTERIAL STA TEM~NT

96 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 basic prindples of the Westminster system and opportunity of debating the statement and I request what Parliament hoped to achieve. It was an almost the government not to impose the guillotine so that hopeless task to convince them that what we were this will be an historic day and we can begin to get a doing was right. collection of ideas that concentrate on the positive aspects of this Ministerial statement and move The students were most appreciative of that towards change. If we use the debate as a platform communication and I hope that, although we might to work towards long overdue reform -- not have been able to convince them, they have not rejected the Westminster system. Every day Ms Kimer interjected. Parliament sits there are scores of children in the galleries who wonder why we carry on in such a Mr J. F. McGRATH - I will not take up the way and how a House of such importance to our interjection of the Premier. We have dealt enough State can do so. with the past. I want to take a positive view about what we ought to do about our Parliament. We can This is a timely debate. It is time each member of this say, ''Hear, hear!" to the statements suggesting that House took the opportunity of being part of this Parliament shDuld: debate. I am here because the majority of constituents in the electorate of Warrnambool ... be the supreme legislative authority for Victoria; selected me to represent their views. I need that opportunity regardless of whether it is during a accept or reject the Ministry appointed by the Crown debate on a Bill, during question time or during the by the expression of confidence or no confidence - debate on the motion for the adjournment of the sitting. We need to have that opportunity of putting I guess that happens in the process of election- forward the views of the electorate. I am accountable to my constituents. give consent or otherwise to taxation and appropriations proposed by the Crown and examine We cannot consider Parliamentary reform without public accounts ... including the whole House. We have a responsibility, as does the Press Gallery - which is They are all important matters and I do not need to empty - to understand the importance of expand on them. Each of them deals with the Parliament and its procedures. This is fundamental accountability of Parliament. If we are really serious to any reform that we undertake. As a Parliament about government we must take up everything that we must begin educating the press to give it the is inherent in the statement and: opportunity of learning about Parliamentary procedures. That is our responsibility. give consent or otherwise to taxation and appropriations proposed by the Crown and examine Reform must come from within the whole of public accounts; Parliament. To achieve the aims of the statement there must be government goodwill, which was That is an important function of Parliament. We mentioned by the honourable member for must take that to the extreme. The statement Mornington, opposition goodwill and media continues: goodwill. It is vital and crudal that we deal with those matters. uphold and further the democratic Constitution of Victoria. I am pleased that today we have had the opportunity of debating the matter so that we can That is vital if Parliament is to continue and Victoria begin to reach some common ground and so that is to survive. We must uphold the Constitution: procedures, attitudes and eventually performance can be put in place to make this place accountable to monitor and scrutinise the activities of executive the people we represent. Currently we are not government and hold the Ministry accountable for accountable and we have to work to get that executive action; accountability. This is fundamental to the operation of Parliament. The statement deals with a range of issues and I will Ministries must be accountable and the best place for not take up a lot of time dealing with them. It is them to be accountable is in Parliament responding important that every honourable member has the to questions and debates and through an informed MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 97 media sending out the message to the public of here. A Bill is introduced that is agreed to by all Victoria. That is our aim. Some people might say sides of the House yet we spend an inordinate that it is ideal. U it is let us aim for that. Let us amount of time debating it. There must be a better attempt to lift our game and aim for what we way. Debate times must be reduced. I have spoken consider to be the utopia of the Wesbninster system. informally to you, Mr Speaker, at different times We should not be prepared to accept anything else. about this matter. We have discussed a process The statement continues: whereby with the consent of the Leaders of the House a Bill could be declared as major or minor so give leadership to community debate on other issues that the set period for debate on a minor Bill would affecting public interest of Victoria and its people; be less than for a major Bill.

I touched on Parliamentary behaviour when I spoke That would add to the efficiency of the House and about school students. I do not believe there is any would provide more meaningful debate. It would point in dealing with that matter again. I am sure also provide an opportunity for more members to honourable members understand that what has participate. A speaker taking up 30 minutes might happened from time to time is not good enough. We deny another speaker the right to say anything. have to get together to do something about it. There must be a balance about debate times and we need to be mature enough to find that balance. The extension of question time would be a positive move. What happened this morning is fresh in our I shall not add any more at this stage in view of minds and we can see that if question time were able what I have just said about speaking for too long. to be extended Parliament would become more However, this is a timely and important document accountable and would function better according to which I hope will give this House an opportunity of the Westminster system. making bipartisan refonns that are needed within the Victorian Parliament. I trust my colleagues on I take up the interjection, disorderly as it was, of my both sides of the House will approach this debate colleague the honourable member for Swan Hill with that in mind so that when we look back in who said question time functions as it should. That history we can say that we did something is exactly right. Although we have a set number of constructive about reforming the Victorian questions within either a set period or an extended Parliament. period, it is important through the function of the Westminster system that those questions be asked Mr SHELL (Geelong) - I am happy to join the not with a sting in the tail but as questions seeking debate on the Ministerial statement by the Premier. information, and they would then be responded to It is a worthwhile document to consider and debate in the same way. That is part of the problem with in this Chamber and I appreciate some of the this Parliament. Invariably the questions we ask remarks made by the honourable member for have a sting in the tail. If one plays football and one Warmambool especially when he has given me time gets a hit under the ear one tends to give a hit back. that I might not otherwise have had. I also As soon as we improve our standard of questions so appreciate the manner in which he made his too will the standard of answers improve. contribution.

The option for grievance debate is similar. So often all the public knows about Parliament is Backbenchers need an opportunity of participating from news spots covering question time, which is a in this House but very often that opportunity is minute but important part of the business of this limited. I do not necessary support each speaker House. The way this House is conducted during being given 20 minutes during the grievance debate. question time is disgraceful and lends itself to Perhaps we should think of some other composition reform. Before I speak about the document I should for debate so that more people can participate. It like to give a thumbnail sketch of the Westminster should be possible to speak for less time and still system of Parliament. deal with the issues raised. Back in English history there was a time when there With regard to the reduction on time limits on was not a Parliament. The monarch ruled and when speeches, one thing that struck me when I first came he fell short of funds and had to raise money, mostly to this House from private enterprise, where I for his armies, he resorted to forming a council of tended to spend every minute of the day in the most war and his leading councillors proVided him with productive way, was the inordinate waste of time the funds to conduct his wars. The ordinary people MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

98 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 in England had no chance of influencing the most of the debate and I have heard you many times monarch in the way he acted. direct honourable members to return to the content of the Ministerial statement. Little of what I have The House of Commons originated from the heard from the honourable member for Geelong has meetings that people used to have in their meadows been relevant to the Ministerial statement, so I ask underneath the big tree of England, the oak tree. As you to bring him back to the matter before the part of the tradition in this place we have the pattern House. of the oak tree on our carpets. That reminds us in the Lower House, the green House, that this is the place Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and where the ordinary people met and discussed issues Agriculture) - On the point of order, Mr Speaker, that concerned them. this is a wide-ranging debate about matters relating to the operations of Parliament. I am finding the In due course the ordinary people founded a honourable member's contribution most Parliament of their own. They first met in the illuminating, as I am sure are other honourable Chapter House of Westminster Cathedral in members and people in and around the Chamber. I London. Unfortunately they were not able to stay ask you, Mr Speaker, to allow him to continue. there long because they kicked up such a din that the residents in the neighbourhood objected to the The SPEAKER - Order! It is necessary that noise. They were removed further down London to members relate their remarks to the matter before a place called Blackfriars Hall where the godly friars the Chair. From what I have heard from the were not too happy with the conduct of the honourable member for Geelong he has been giving members of the House of Commons. The friars historical background that I believe is relevant to the bleated about the way the members behaved so the present-day forms of our system of government. As House of Commons approached the monarch of the such I believe him to be in order. But I remind the day - I think it was the boy king but I do not know honourable member that it is necessary for him to his name - to find a place within the Westminster relate his remarks to the matter under debate. Palace for them to meet. The monarch found a place called St Stephen's Chapel where the monks used to Mr SHELL (Geelong) - I understand that even meet for their worship. Little alteration was needed today neither a soldier nor a representative of the to the chapel for the House of Commons to meet. army can enter the Chamber. That privilege is The altar was removed and replaced with a extended to members of the Police Force but not to Speaker's chair. In those days the monks members of the military forces. worshipped on benches that were placed the length of the chapel, and this is where we get our I shall explain why the Press Gallery is located above traditional term of ''back benches". The Parliaments and behind the Speaker's chair. The House of that were built in the eighteenth and nineteenth Commons was so packed with members of centuries all have designs similar to that in this Parliament and members of the public to hear the Chamber. British Prime Minister of the day announce that England would declare war on Napoleon's France The monarch of the day chose certain advisers from that there was no room for the press. As a result the House of Commons and they became Ministers. there was no mention in the following day's Because there was one Minister that the monarch newspapers about the Prime Minister's really wanted as the leader he called him the first announcement. In those days politicians had not minister or prime minister, and that is where the developed an appetite for press releases pointing out term Prime Minister originates. In this Chamber what they mayor may not say in the House. above the door No. 27 behind the Speaker is an inverted cross. That cross represents the protection Because of a tradition of the Westminster system that members of this House have. that the press not be allowed in the Chamber, the Speaker of the day allocated space behind his chair That originates from the occasion when Charles I for a press gallery, so that the press could report and his soldiers invaded the House of Commons to Parliamentary proceedings without being seen and arrest six members of Parliament. Members escaped therefore without being officially acknowledged by through a side door behind the Speaker's chair -- the Chair.

Mr W. D. McGRATH (Lowan) - On a point of The Standing Order that prevents the reading of order, Mr Speaker, I have been in the Chamber for speeches comes directly from another tradition of MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 99 the Westminster system - a Standing Order that I during ordinary debate or the adjournment debate believe has no relevance today. but during question time. The media's exploitation of our unruly behaviour during question time does Early members of the House of Commons were not nothing for the image of Parliament. allowed to read speeches. They did not want to read them, because to read their speeches they first had to When I travelled to Canada to observe its write them, and most of them were illiterate. Parliamentary procedures I noticed that some provinces had adopted very clear and easy to Mr Weideman - What's changed? enforce Standing Orders to control unruly behaviour.

Mr SHELL - The opposition is not much better. Mr Weideman - They don't have any unruly Those members of the House of Commons were not behaviour. prepared to leave what they had written on the benches for fear that the monarch of the day might Mr SHELL - That's why. A Speaker who get hold of their speeches, especially if derogatory observes a member behaving in a disorderly way by remarks had been made about him or her, and interjection, for example, warns that member, and if punish them by locking them in the Tower of the member offends again, he or she is warned a London. That is the origin of the current Standing second time. If the member offends a third time, he Order, which I believe is no longer appropriate, or she is out, with no debate. especially given the advantages available to members through the use of modem technology. If we adopted a similar Standing Order, I am sure behaviour in the Chamber would improve, because Often members contribute to a second-reading if there is one thing that members of Parliament debate, sometimes concentrating on only one clause cherish it is their right to be in the Chamber to of a Bill, simply to use up time and to prevent other contribute to debates and to have their say about the members speaking. As the Ministerial statement decisions that are made. says, that practice must be examined. Honourable members do not wish to be expelled When the House of Commons was refurbished to from the Chamber, particularly because of the repair the damage done by bombing during the adverse publicity that may ensue. A Standing Order second world war, the then Prime Minister, Winston of that nature would assist to control the House. Churchill, issued instructions that its size not be increased. Mr Leigh interjected.

He argued that a House of a similar size would The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable continue to allow members to contribute freely to member for Malvern has already been cautioned; I friendly debates across the table. In that vein, I do not wish to have to deal with him. believe we should get rid of the microphones in this place because they add to the noise in the Chamber, Mr SHELL - Parliamentary committees and, as such, are not conducive to orderly debate. comprise representatives of all parties from both Winston Churchill foresaw such pitfalls, although it Houses of this Parliament. In my experience, and is unfortunate that microphones have now been without exception, the three Parliamentary installed in the House of Commons. committees on which I have served have conducted their business in an orderly and quiet fashion and in Although the House of Commons is not big enough a spirit of cooperation, enabling them to cover the to accommodate all of its 600 members at anyone business allocated to them. time, I believe this Chamber is of a size comfortable enough to allow us to debate without the assistance However, what happens when we come here? We of microphones. I should also add, Mr Speaker, that forget how well we work with each other on the the Commonwealth of Australia provided the House committee scene and immediately commence of Commons with a Speaker's chair to replace the attacking each other for all sorts of reasons. The chair destroyed by bombing during the second Victorian Parliamentary Christian Fellowship has world war. been concerned in recent times about the way in which we conduct ourselves. The Christian Concern has been expressed about the way fellowship has a basic philosophy not to attack the Parliamentarians conduct themselves not so much person but perhaps to attack policy. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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There are also occasions where the forms of this in being able to attend here, but it is important that House are deliberately used to prevent a member Parliament should keep up with the times and that from participating in debate. we as honourable members should accurately reflect the needs of our constituents; we should supply Mr Leigh - Who would do that? reasoned responses to all debate. I do not necessarily suggest we must agree, because this is a Parliament Mr SHELL - I well remember the honourable of debate and we need not necessarily agree on member for Malvern and the previous honourable every subject. member for Warmambool on one occasion during my contribution to the Budget debate interrupting We should conduct business in an orderly fashion. me on ten occasions. That usually happens in the Committee stage of the passage of Bills, but the public does not know that. Mr Leigh - No! Members of the public usually visit here during question time because that is the liveliest period; that Mr SHELL - If I remember correctly, four is the part of proceedings usually recorded by the quorums were called and six points of order were media. taken. That was of concern because it was done deliberately to frustrate my contribution. We should adopt the recommendations contained in the Ministerial statement so that this place can As has been recommended in the Premier's maintain a justified prestige. I wish the statement Ministerial statement, the Chair should have the success and I hope we can install measures during right to extend a member's time when he or she has the life of this Parliament so that in future been unduly and unnecessarily interrupted during Parliaments we can hold our heads high when we his or her contribution. That would allow a better say that we are members of Parliament. presentation of material to the House. Mr BROWN (Gippsland West) - This debate is Mr Weideman - Perhaps we should shorten important because it concerns a Ministerial their time. statement. The many Ministerial statements I have heard in this place have always concerned important Mr SHELL - Sometimes it would be better to issues and usually are very relevant to the concerns shorten the time; and that leads me to the reading of of the day. speeches. The quality of debate in this Parliament appals me. The question that immediately flashed through my mind when the Premier introduced this Ministerial Mr Leigh - Especially from the government. statement was: why is the statement not about the issue of the day, namely, our economy, and about Mr SHELL - The Hansard record should provide the way in which it has been decimated by the necessary documentation for anyone to write a incompetent Federal and State Labor governments; thesis on any particular subject debated in this place. when almost a million people are unemployed, with For example, if someone wished to write a thesis a particularly desperate plight among our young about adoption, all debates on adoption as recorded who, despite their best endeavours, cannot get jobs? in this place should be useful material. I have selected the subject of adoption as an example Recently I have had a number of university students because the late Pauline Toner presented that Bill; working in my electorate office as volunteers the former honourable member Don Saltmarsh, and because they cannot obtain jobs in any food industry the honourable member for Swan Hill, in a spirit of or transport area; they cannot obtain any part-time cooperation over a period of weeks, did what this employment. Parliament ought to do always - cooperate and work to obtain the best piece of legislation possible Why has the Premier introduced this subject now? on any topic. That is the way Parliament should The explanation is clearly exactly what Keating did always act rather than that being an exception to the at the Federal level -- rule. I congratulate the honourable members involved in the passage of that Bill at that time. The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable member should refer to the Prime Minister by his Not one honourable member in this place does not correct title. cherish and respect the responsibility he or she has MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr Cunningham - He doesn't know how to. his usual self-restraint. I advise the honourable member for Gippsland West, in case he might do so, Mr BROWN - I am aware of the rule for that he should avoid reflecting on any PreSiding honourable members in this House, Mr Officer present or past. Speaker-- Mr BROWN - Certainly, Mr Speaker. I am The SPEAKER - Order! Honourable members reflecting on this incompetent government and how of any Parliament. it has denigrated the Parliament, its traditions and its standards from the first day it took office some Mr BROWN - That is news to me; even I can ten years ago. learn something! I shall not use phrases that the general community uses. I shall call him the Some of my colleagues have referred to the dress honourable Prime Minister of Australia, and to a lot standards of honourable members and how they of Australians I seem to be out of order in so doing. have diminished under the current government. Male members of the government come into the 1his is a diversion from the real concerns and issues Chamber without ties. One even comes into the that now face Victoria. A desperate plight exists Chamber in shorts. They look like slobs off the street among the unemployed and among those who have when they should be setting an example to the lost or will lose their businesses daily. In her community. In her statement the Premier quoted statement the Premier even refers to a republic as a Carmen Lawrence from Western Australia -- future possibility, but the reason for the smokescreen is to divert the resources and the Honourable members interjecting. ongoing interest of the opposition from the real issues - but the opposition will not be diverted. The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable member should refer to the Premier of Western There is no doubt that the future of democracy in Australia by her correct title. Victoria is precious and dear to every honourable member in this House, but the government has Mr BROWN - The Premier of Western Australia prostituted what has been until recent years a good said: ongoing system of Westminster government and tradition. I am sure members on both sides of this House have felt a deep sense of embarrassment and shame to have When I entered this place in 1979 the standards of invited guests, particularly school children, to witness behaviour across the board were excellent. Ministers the proceedings of Parliament, only for them to see a of the Crown were certainly held accountable in this disgraceful bout of heckling, name calling and other House. I well remember sitting here on a daily basis outbursts which one might expect at a football match. and watching the government of the day dealing with want-of-confidence motions and other motions I share the sentiments of the Premier in that available to the then opposition, the present statement and ask: what is the common element? government. This government has denigrated the The common element is the new breed of Labor standards of this Parliament during its decade in governments in Victoria and Western Australia office. That started on the first day when one of your where the demise of Parliamentary standards has predecessors, Mr Speaker, did away with the gown come into play over the past decade. Many members and the regalia of the Speaker; he removed the wig of the Labor Party - I will not claim all of them that had been in place for decades in Victoria. Then, because there are some decent people in the Labor down came the Union Jack! Party - have no concern whatever for morals, standards or for upholding the Westminster Mr Norris - Hear, hear! tradition of government.

Mr BROWN - They would love to run up the Honourable members interjecting. Hammer and Sickle -- Mr BROWN - They can guffaw as much as they Honourable members interjecting. like. It is the truth, and they know it. I shall ate chapter and verse what has happened to the The SPEAKER - Order! I suggest the Victorian Parliament. Question time is an absolute honourable member for Dandenong should show farce. When the Premier was reading out this MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Ministerial statement she must have cringed. unanswered for years - not weeks or months but Obviously it was not prepared by her and probably years. When in government we had a policy of not read by her prior to coming into the House answering the questions, as any honourable member today. In question time this morning only four deserves to have them answered, within as short a paltry questions were answered by Ministers. Under time frame as possible. Does this government care? former liberal governments there were, on average, Not at all! four times as many questions. The same situation applies to the grievance debate. The same situation applies to the debate on the Grievance Day is one of the few times members of motion for the adjournment of the sitting. Regularly the opposition have the chance to raise any issue of there is only one Minister in attendance. The importance on any subject. What has the Minister at the table regularly stands up and says, '1 government done? It has almost wiped them out will refer the issue raised by the honourable member totally. In some Parliamentary sessions there has to my colleague the Minister for Planning and been no grievance debate. Housing. I will refer the other issue raised by another honourable member to the Minister for This autumn session the government has agreed to Police and Emergency Services. I will refer another only two grievance debates, one being the Thursday issue raised by another honourable member to a before Good Friday. I wonder why the government third Minister". agreed to two debates when in the past it has had none. The answer is that no newspapers will be On they go, night after night, avoiding their published on Good Friday. There will be no responsibilities by not even coming into the reporting of the grievance debate so that only the Chamber for the adjournment debate. few people who have the interest to read Hansard will know what was said. The general public will When I first came to Parliament in 1979 I well recall not know what the opposition raised on that the stature of people such as the late Jim Balfour. He Grievance Day because the media, particularly the was not a young man in 1979 but, no matter what print media, will not report the proceedings the next time of the day or night Parliament adjourned, he day. had the decency to honour his responsibilities as a Minister and be present in the Chamber, even if it It is an outrageous blight on the system when any were 5 a.m., as it was on many occasions, to answer government operates in such a manner. It is fascism. questions raised in the adjournment debate. I recall It is the way dictatorships operate. In every way Undsay Thompson, Dick Hamer, both former they try to conceal, inhibit or manipulate the truth to Premiers, and other Ministers and very honourable keep it from the media and the public gaze. They men who ensured that they were in attendance to would do anything to protect their own beloved respond to matters raised. There was no rubbish governments except to let the truth prevail. That is such as '1 will refer this to some Minister" who how this government has operated for a decade. might have gone home hours ago. Even if it were 5 0'clock in the morning former Uberal Ministers In her statement the Premier referred to upgrading lined up and responsibly answered the questions the committee system. It is a joke for whoever asked of them. prepared the Premier's statement to talk about upgrading the committee system. This government What does this government do? The test will be rejects out of hand the decisions of Parliamentary tonight during the debate on the motion for the committees. Recently the all-party Social adjournment of the sitting. Perhaps two or three Development Committee recommended that speed Ministers will attend tonight in response to my limits be increased on divided roads where head-on laying down the gauntlet. The Premier knows it is accidents are unlikely. Speed limits had been the truth. The former liberal government accepted previously reduced arbitrarily to 100 kilometres an the responsibility of doing the right thing, even at hour on our best highways and freeways. the end of the day on the adjournment debate. Although the government says, ''Let's upgrade the Questions on notice are an absolute joke. Ministers committee system, let's allow them to meet do not even attempt to answer them within a responsibly and use scarce taxpayers' resources to reasonable time frame. Frustration is the order of the fund them" when the committees hand down their day with this government. Questions that have been recommendations the government rejects them out placed on the Notice Paper in some cases remain of hand. Why talk about upgrading the committee MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 103 system if their decisions are treated with such Mr BROWN - I note the honourable member for disdain? The incoming Uberal government will Melbourne's interjection and I see I am supported in resource committees properly on the basis that they this view by members of the government. will do the jobs taxpayers expect them to do. This debate is about deflecting Parliament from the Last night, I think for the first time in the thirteen current dilemmas facing Victoria. Who on earth, years I have been a member of this Chamber, we other than a few troglodytes in the Labor Party, had the inglorious situation where there was not wants to be involved in a major, controversial and even a Minister in the Chamber. The government confrontationist debate in Victoria now about benches were deserted of Ministerial representation. whether we want a change in our democracy to a I fail to understand how the House can be asked to republican model of independent Parliament? debate a Bill introduced by a Minister when no Minister is in attendance. This debate is not about reform of the practices and procedures of Parliament; if the government were One of my colleagues, of course, moved the genuine, it would know the opposition would adjournment of that debate and found, by Mc support, and would have supported years ago, an Speaker's ruling, that as he had commenced his upgrading of the responsibilities and powers of contribution he was unable to adjourn the debate at Parliament if that had been put forward in a mature that point. Parliament should have been adjourned and proper way. at that point, if it were possible so to do. The members of the Labor Party are in their dying Fancy the Minister not even being in the Chamber; days as an outgoing government. They know that, fancy there not even being a substitute! I would and the Victorian community knows it. Even the understand if it were the former Treasurer, Mc Australian community knows it. Everyone knows an Roper, and he had been caught short and needed to election is to be called in Victoria. The Labor Party go to the toilet, but even in that case one would want cannot run and hide forever; the government has to a representative to stand in for him - some other call an election no later than Boxing Day. There must Ministerial colleague - but the Chamber was be an election before Boxing Day; it cannot go deserted. This is the way government members treat beyond Christmas. Then members of the Labor Parliament in this day and age, and of course it is Party will be subjected to the will of the people: they not acceptable. will be thrown out of office, and they know they are facing their time in the wilderness. They also talk about the need to make a change so that Parliament will be master of its own destiny As the Leader of the Opposition has said, this debate and in control of its own affairs and have its own is all about their transition from having been the budget. That is a great principle, but according to government for the past decade into opposition for what has been put forward today, it will still be probably the next two decades. I can only say subject to Ministerial fiat and Ministerial control. hallelujah to that course of events being accelerated That is the effective outcome of what has been rather than being delayed any further. recommended, and, with this government, one could not trust them as far as one could kick them. What we want in Victoria is a return to responsible government. We had Parliament being operated I highlight again something the Premier said in her under the Westminster system until 1982. Ministers contribution, and I quote directly from part of page and Premiers of the past respected the forms and 3. The Premier states: institutions of the Westminster system. Ministers were held accountable under the procedures then The reform of the Parliament requires a constitutional existing. policy as well as a strategy for the Parliament. Motions were put forward, almost daily for a period, Is there to be a change in policy and practice to a in the form of censure against the former Liberal republican model of an independent Parliament? government, and what we have seen since the day the present government came to office ten years ago, That is what this debate is about. at that time under the leadership of former Premier Cain, is a constant whittling away of the rights, Mr Cole - Hear, hear! standards and procedures of Parliament. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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They know that; they know this Ministerial highlight the fact that this is the most incompetent statement is just bubble and verbiage. It has been government in the history of Victoria. put up as a diversion and although, naturally, we have to embrace a debate on the issue, the coalition, We will continue to highlight things like the loss of the incoming government, will not be diverted from our State Bank and the VEDC scandal, and the raft the real game. of other scandals that mean the government will be replaced after the next election. We will not allow what happened at the Federal level by the purveyor of bad news, the present Prime When we have a decent honest open coalition Minister, to happen here. We will not allow, as the government in place - and we haven't had honest Prime Minister did federally when the heat was on, and open government for ten years - the people a debate to be diverted towards republicanism and will see a return to the principles of decency and cutting our ties with England; and in fact, doing openness and accountability and Ministerial away with the Westminster system. responsibility. The government will operate under the Westminster system, as the Westminster system Ms Kimer - Come on; nobody said that. was truly designed to operate.

Mr BROWN - It is in your statement. Everyone I know cannot wait for the next State election to be held so that that transition can take Ms Kimer - Why don't you read it? place and, for all the people I know, that is sooner rather than later. Mr BROWN - The Westminster system is the basis of your statement. Mrs RAY (Box Hill) - This place is certainly in urgent need of reform, and colleagues on both sides Ms Kimer - Read it properly. of the House who know me will know that I have very strong convictions about the form of the House Mr BROWN - '15 there to be a change in policy facilitating clear and concise participation. and practice?" The two areas to which I want to address my Ms Kimer - Yes. Keep reading. remarks are the hostile environment in the Chamber in which members are expected to contribute, and Mr BROWN - 11 ••• to a republican model of an the value of the Parliamentary committee system as independent Parliament?" To which I say, and all a forum where issues can be more thoroughly colleagues on this side of the Chamber say: no; no considered, and well informed decisions made, way known! Is there going to be a change to a eventually to be presented to Parliament as a whole. republican model? Public respect for Parliament, for whatever reason, is Ms Kimer - I hate to tell you this, but my policy certainly not high. In the ten years of my does not say that. membership of this place I have been unable to defend the practice of the Chamber to visitors in any Mr BROWN - Your next step is to absolutely way that I thought was convincing. I do try to jettison all ties with the Westminster system. reassure them that useful decisions are made through other informal processes and other forums. Ms Kimer - You're wrong. That's twice you've I guess that such decisions would not be made if we said it now. were to rely on the forms of the House alone.

Mr BROWN - What the Prime Minister did do, The atmosphere in this place is frequently and I must say quite successfully, was put up a intimidating and bullying. I recall the debate on the smokescreen and divert the forces at the Federal Equal Opportunity Bill in 1983 when one could only level that are lined up against him to get rid of him; say that the climate of the debate was insulting and the debate was successfully diverted from the real humiliating to many honourable members. issues and he took our eye off the ball. It should not be a prerequisite of Parliamentary That will not happen here. We will continue, representation for a person to be able to talk down between now and whenever the election is held, to interjections. The instruction from the Chair to highlight the inadequacies of the government and to ignore interjections is sometimes easier said than MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 105 done. I have no desire to respond to interjections; I Act. In that role the committee is undertaking a task simply wish I did not lose my train of thought. I can referred to by the Premier in her statement - the be as tenacious as anyone when it comes to pursuing greater use of committees in reviewing the an outcome. However, howling at people and legislative process. The Infertility (Medical shouting abuse are not skills I should have to Procedures) Act is complex and difficult legislation cultivate to present ideas in public. that needs to be sensibly and carefully considered in a forum where people struggle towards consensus I do not intend to battle through interjections which rather than artificially contrived differences. turn contributions into obstacle races. I simply want to contrast the forum in this place with the forum of The Social Development Committee intends to Parliamentary committees. I did not jOin the Social undertake its inquiries in the tradition it has Development Committee until 1985. The committee developed over the past ten years - dealing with was reformed in 1982 by the Labor government and the people most affected by proposed legislation. In in its first three years of work it became known as a this case the committee will speak with participants forum where constructive and Significant work was of infertility programs as well as members of the done on complex and sometimes sensitive public Standing Review and AdviSOry Committee on issues. Infertility, who have been unable to reach agreement on several major issues. In that way the committee By 21 November last year the Social Development will have the opportunity of playing a direct role in Committee had completed and presented some 31 amending existing legislation. reports to Parliament. Between 1982 and 1985 the committee presented reports on issues including the The comments of the honourable members for Medical Practitioners (Private Hospitals) Bill, speed Oakleigh and Geelong need to be reinforced by limits in all guises, road safety, including the use of someone who was taken aback to discover that the roads by children and bicycle riders, and opportunity of putting forward one's ideas in the compensation for dispossession and dispersal of public forum was made so difficult. I support Aboriginal people. anything which makes it easier for elected representatives to take part in informed decision Since 1985 I have personally been associated with making. reports dealing with therapeutic goods and cosmetics and the future use of Willsmere Hospital. Mr RICHARDSON (Forest Hill) - This has been That was a significant report and it led to the closure an extraordinary day. The Ministerial statement was of that institution and began a serious community intended as today's stunt. Each day there has to be a rethink of the congregate care of people who, in the stunt, and the statement was today's stunt. On past, have not been adequately considered. reflection, the Premier must now be saying ruefully to herself, '1t seemed like a good idea at the time". The committee also completed reports on alternative medicine and the health food industry. One of its The idea was that the Premier would make a more Significant inquiries was that into options for Ministerial statement purporting to reflect the dying with dignity. That report led to landmark government's adoption of the high moral ground on Australian legislation upholding the autonomy of matters Parliamentary. That was fine until patients with terminal illnesses to refuse treatment. Richardson's law of politics came into play: when things start going wrong they keep going wrong. The Social Development Committee has done That is precisely what has happened today. significant work on the management of drivers apprehended with high blood a1cohollevels. In The Ministerial statement relating to conduct in recent years it has completed a report on the role Parliament, the way fair and proper debating and welfare of companion animals. It has also done practices should be applied, the way Parliament three major reports on community violence which should be reformed and the way the image of have led to a refined version of the issue under the Parliament should be improved was blown out of guise of community safety as it relates to mental the water because it followed immediately after one disturbance. of the most disgraceful question times the government has ever manipulated. The committee is currently working on a reference from the Minister for Health to consider Honourable members saw the extraordinary amendments to the Infertility (Medical Procedures) spectacle of the current Treasurer - who knows MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

106 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 how long this one will last - taking 20 minutes to The opportunities were there but the Premier answer the first question. He was called to order decided it was a good idea to have the honourable several times by the Speaker, who finally refused to member for Oakleigh, who is showing no interest in hear him further. There were continual warnings the proceedings, to write the Ministerial statement. It from the Speaker to the Treasurer about his conduct, was to be the diversion for the day and would flag and the whole display by the government was the methods that government was going to use to disgraceful. achieve the objectives it has set itself before the transition of power to the coalition parties at the next Immediately after that debacle the Premier leapt to election. her feet in an attempt to take the high moral ground on Parliamentary procedures and conduct. As this In adopting the high moral ground the Premier said government lurches towards its inevitable demise it in the Ministerial statement: is interesting that there is a sudden newfound interest in matters Parliamentary. Since 1982 the ... the perception of declining respect for Parliament government has treated the institution of may be based on rose-tinted perceptions of the past. Parliament, its practices and its traditions not only with distain but with downright contempt. As it There is a little hint of Mr Keating here. It is another appears the government will lose the next election example of how the Premier is desperately clinging suddenly the Labor Party is interested in reforming to the coat-tails of the Prime Minister and hoping he Parliament to make it a fairer place for the might be able to somehow prop her government up. opposition. It will not work because the Federal government is almost as greatly despised by the populace as is this There is pressure to bring in amendments to the government. Standing Orders as soon as possible. Moves are afoot to change the very fabric of how this place works The Premier said: and how it is organised. This is the last dying gasp. There are now calls for bipartisanship, which is the The institution of Parliament in Victoria is in decline. last refuge of a dying government. Who caused it? The answer is: the Labor All these matters now confront the Parliament as a government of which she is now the head. The whole and the opposition parties are being asked to institution of Parliament has been under threat since go along with the propositions that are being put by March 1982 and it will remain under threat for as a government that has suddenly seen the light. It long as this government remains in power. I have to says that this great institution, with its hundreds of agree that the institution of Parliament is in decline. years of custom, is under threat in Victoria. It has It has been battered by successive Labor been under threat since 1982. The government had governments over the past ten years but I draw an opportunity to debate this very question. In fact, comfort from the fact that the institution of in my name on the Notice Paper, General Business, Parliament has survived for many hundreds of years item No. 25, there is a motion which reads: both in England and in other parts of the world. Indeed, it has survived for almost 150 years in That this House condenms the Parliamentary Labor Victoria. Party for its contempt for the Parliament and its deliberate attempts to denigrate and demean the This very institution in which we are proud to serve institution. has been battered from time to time. There have been constitutional crises and periods when the The government could have brought that motion on behaviour of honourable members has been even for debate. It could have also brought on a resolution more outrageous than what we have seen in recent standing in my name which is item No. 2, General years. The institution has survived all that, and it Business, on the Notice Paper. It says: will continue to survive. It will survive even the attacks by this Labor government. That this House takes note of the report on the Strategic Management Review of the Parliament of Victoria, Let us consider some of the ways in which the February 1991, together with the statement made by Mr institution of Parliament has been forced into decline Speaker. by the government. The decline commenced with the previous Premier who is now merely the disgraced member for Bundoora, and continued by MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 107 the present Premier, who will soon be equally sees as the vestiges of colonialism, and good taste disgraced when, at the next election, the people has gone out the window. wreak their vengeance on the government that has failed them. The distressing thing is that, despite all of the damage the government has done, not just to this We have seen the curtailment of debate brought on institution but to the State as a whole, there will not by the heavy hand of a government that has the be one ounce of remorse or contrition from any numbers; we have seen the introduction of Sessional member of the government. Most of them will lose Orders which are intended to disadvantage the their seats at the next election and some will retire of opposition and restrict the rights of honourable their own choice. They will all walk away from the members to engage in debate and the capacity of an calamity they have created, laughing and saying, opposition to take the government to task and bring 'We got away with it for ten years, we diddled the it to account. We have seen an appalling decline in mugs for ten years; weren't we smart? We didn't the standards of dress. Indeed, the honourable think we could get away with it for as long as we member for Geelong regularly appears dressed in did. By golly, weren't we clever? We did the mugs shorts and an open-necked sports shirt. The over". honourable member for Springvale has been here for many years but I have never seen him wearing a tie That will be the attitude of government members to in this place. However, the honourable gentleman is the damage they have done. I will never forgive impeccably dressed and behaves with decorum at them for that. Government members hold this the races and other social functions where he enjoys institution in contempt, but their contempt for the the fruits of office. He sets out to denigrate the institution of Parliament is nothing compared to the institution of Parliament and lower its standards. contempt I feel for every honourable member opposite. They are a disgrace. Question time has become a debacle. I know the word "farce" is used quite frequently but I prefer the Ms Kirner interjected. word "debacle". The honourable member for Warmambool made reference during his speech to Mr RICHARDSON - The Premier interjected the reactions of visitors to this place and the that she did not think honourable members on her appalling behaviour of honourable members. It side of the House would be too worried by that. brings no credit upon anybody. That sort of behaviour is commonplace but it was not Ms Kirner - By you! commonplace before the Labor Party came to office. There has been a deliberate attempt by the Mr RICHARD SON - I am glad the Premier government to denigrate the Parliament as an made that interjection because she has just institution, lower the standards, bring the institution confirmed the point I was making. I will go through into disrepute, and destroy tradition and anything it some of the points made by the Premier in her believes smacks of links with the past. Ministerial statement.

There is a strange, neurotic fixation in the Labor The Premier says: Party with all things traditional. That has been manifested in recent remarks by the Prime Minister. It has been widely agreed that the purpose and role of The government has denigrated the traditions and the Parliament within our Constitution needs a clear standards of the institution of Parliament, and that restatement. denigration has been carried through to the other portion of government: the office of Governor. This Among which group in society is it widely agreed government has deliberately set out to lower the that there needs to be a clear restatement? Is it the standing of the office of Governor. Labor Party caucus, Ministry, party organisational wing or the Trades Hall Council? It seems to me The government behaved disgracefully in the matter there is wide agreement among members of the of the dismissal of the late Sir Brian Murray. The Labor Party and their followers that there is a government has set out to achieve a number of desperate need to do something quickly before they ideological objectives which are born out of a lose government to try to save something that will neurotic fixation with anything that it perceives to enable them to have an advantage when they are in be traditional, to relate to standards, or to what it opposition that they were not prepared to allow the present opposition to have. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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When the Liberal Party was in government the Members must themselves accept the discipline of Labor opposition, through the forms of the House, vigorous substantive debate and deliberation. was able to mount an attack on the government virtually daily if it chose to do so. Because the In other words that which has been denied for ten government of the day believed in the fairness of years suddenly becomes an imperative and must be Parliament and the rights of honourable members it restored. always allowed urgency and adjournment motions to proceed and it is true that the Labor opposition of The Premier says that conventions to protect the the day got in some very serious blows to the then independence and integrity of Presiding Officers are Liberal government. required. The conventions to protect the independence and integrity of the Presiding Officers When the Labor Party became the government it are already in existence and have been for more than quickly resolved that it would not allow the liberals 100 years. The only body of men and women that to do to it what it had done to the Liberals. It has threatened the integrity and independence of immediately proceeded to change the rules to successive Labor Speakers has been the Labor restrict the capacity of an opposition to bring the government itself. government to account. I do not intend to reflect upon the Chair, for to do so Now, as the government faces defeat it wants to would be improper and unparliamentary. However, change the rules back again to provide a greater I make it clear that in my view the threat to the capacity for an opposition to do the sort of job that independence and integrity of the Speaker and, to a oppositions have traditionally been able to do. The lesser extent, the President of the Legislative government does not fool anyone and will not get Council-Labor has not had a majority in that away with it. House - has come from the Labor government itself.

There are specific reforms to conventions and The government now says that the support of the practices foreshadowed by the Premier in the party Leaders for the authority of the Speaker and Ministerial statement. The Premier proposes the President is essential to the effective operation of appropriate amendments to Standing Orders and Parliament. So far as honourable members on this the Constitution. That is not just a veiled threat: she side of the House are concerned that has never been comes straight out and says it. The government in doubt. The same cannot be said for those on the wants to change the Standing Orders and the other side of the House. Constitution so that a government will be disadvantaged and a Labor opposition will be Under the heading ''Procedures to improve advantaged. After ten years of not agreeing with deliberation and debate" the Premier says: active participation by a wide cross-section of members the Premier now proposes: There are particular concerns at the reduction in the number of questions without notice asked and The active participation of Ministers and a wider answered and in the reduction in the number of cross-section of members of the Parliament would now opportunities for backbenchers to participate in the be appropriate. Parliament in debates and statements.

The Premier wishes to change the rules to suit That is the fault of the government. Government herself; she proposes that a Parliament of Victoria Ministers deliberately filibuster, attempt to disrupt Committee be established but does not give any question time and have set out deliberately from details on page 5 of the statement. However, later in when they first came to office in 1982 to turn the statement all is revealed: the Parliament of question time into an opportunity for grandstanding Victoria Committee will be the supreme governing and to ensure that the opposition has no opportunity body of the institution. The Premier proposes that it to really bring the government to account. The must be bipartisan. Bipartisanship has been rejected destruction of question time has been caused by the by the government for ten years and suddenly Ministers of Labor governments. becomes an imperative. The Ministerial statement proposes changes to the The Premier then moves on to the conventions of Standing Orders. This is what the Premier said: Parliamentary behaviour and says: MINISTERIAL STATEI\MENT

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The government attempted to have some of them The Mirinisterial statement also deals with the implemented a year ago, when the Leader of the Parliarrnentary committee system. There are gems in Government in the Legislative Assembly moved a this staatement, and here is another one: motion which has not yet been considered. The t existing joint committees ... have been regarded as Whose fault is that? The answer is, ''The beinp.g too susceptible to executive influence in their government's". The government controls the refer1"ences and budgets. business of the House. It was the Leader of the House who introduced these matters. It is the Whose~ fault is that? It is the executive's fault; it is the government that decides what matters are to be govemunent's fault. Yet the Premier is bleating that brought before the House. The government has joint ccommittees are now regarded as being too chosen not to proceed with those matters, yet here suscep,tible. Suddenly the Premier says: we have the Premier bleating that they have not been attended to. I su~pport the concept of a more developed and indeependent system of committees. I love the next part of the Ministerial statement: She di(d not want to have a bar of this independence The government now supports change to Standing business for ten years, but suddenly as the election Orders in the Assembly to achieve in particular - looms. she supports the concept of a more developed and imdependent system of committees. For ten And these are lulus: years lParliamentary committees have simply been not jmst the tools of Parliament but the captive tools discretion to the Speaker to allow question time to be of this; government, and suddenly it has been extended if opportunity for asking an adequate number decidfed they should be allowed to be independent. of questions is not available; There is much more in this very curious statement opportunity for a grievance debate to be held on a more made today by the Premier. Among her final regular and frequent basis -- commlents is the following:

And this is from the government which has for ten Reflorm of the Parliament will involve a range of shifts years deliberately denied the opposition an in b>alances of power and tactical advantage as between opportunity to participate in the grievance debate poliitical parties and as between the Parliament and the because it has arranged the sittings so that the exeocutive. regular days on which a grievance debate will be held will simply occur in non-sitting weeks: So Shte has summed up the set of objectives that she and ~me of her colleagues have, and that is quite reduction of time limits on speeches in debates ... simpl'y to change the way in which this institution works, not for the good of Parliament or the people The government wants to curtail the rights of of Victoria, but simply to provide an advantage for a members by limiting the time for which they can Labor Party which is doomed, which is hated and speak and in the same breath it is bleating that the reviled throughout Victoria, and which will be rights of members need to be protected. The decimated at the next election whenever it is held. government then wants: The objective of this document and of all the other agreed times for the duration of debates. things that are occurring at the moment is to preserve something that will make opposition easier The government has not wanted that for ten years. It for the Labor Party than the Labor Party has made it has not even wanted its own members to contribute for the Liberal Party. That is the objective. That is all to debates. Its members have not even wanted to be it is about. in the Chamber. Most of them are out of the Chamber for most of the time. Indeed, often there is I can say that while the government has the numbers not even a Minister at the table to take charge of his it can probably do just about anything it likes, but it or her own legislation. That is how seriously the should remember another fundamental truism of government takes the Parliamentary process and the politics: the wheel always turns and the bell always progress of legislation through the House! tolls, and I tell the Labor Party, "It tolls for thee". MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Mr COLE (Melbourne) - I support the Mr COLE - It is totally inconsistent with the Ministerial statement on Parliamentary reform made Westminster system to have an Upper House like by the Premier. I join the debate because I am also on the one in Victoria. An Upper House does not exist the joint Parliamentary committee into the review of in that form in Britain, where the Westminster the Parliament. I am somewhat surprised at the system comes from. The House of Lords has no contribution of opposition members to the debate power to ultimately reject Bills. It has no power to because much of the Ministerial statement mirrors reject money Bills and, in fact, even as recently as the recommendations of the Russell-Foley report. last year the House of Lords attempted to reject a Bill in total and there were cries that if things were not More importantly, I suppose there is a sense of changed the House of Lords would be gotten rid of. frustration for me, having been here only since 1988 and having heard the calls and demands for reform What we really have in Australia and particularly in from the opposition, that when the government Victoria is a throwback to a period before the actually comes forward with something that Westminster system as it really came into being in its resembles reform the opposition says, ''Why didn't purest form in 1911. Basically the National Party and you do it before?" and 'We do not support the fact Uberal Party coalition vacillates between 1623 and that you are doing it now". I have heard that sort of 1911! cry on many occasions and it becomes rather frustrating. It has never come up to date with new technology. The opposition wishes to start with Beyond 1950 The joint Parliamentary committee took evidence rather than with Beyond 2000. I wish not only that from many people, including the President of the the system reaches at least the minimum level of the Legislative Council, the Honourable Alan Hunt, and Westminster system with the abolition of the Upper the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly. At the time House in Victoria, but also that Parliament will I asked the President why, if he so vehemently and consider the need for this country to become a strongly believed in these reforms, those reforms republic. There is no need for Australia to have the were not actually carried out under a Uberal Crown or to go through the facade of Orders in government. His reply was interesting. He was Council with Governors signing documents. It is reserved initially and he pondered on my question only then as a country will we grow up and accept for some time. Finally he said that given the the fact that we are not seen to be subservient to a make-up of the Lower House and the Upper House foreign hereditary Queen, although she might be a at the present time and the current political climate nice person. We should be a mature country dealing there is no better opportunity in history to carry out with its own issues. We are no longer a major the much-needed reforms to this Parliament. trading partner with England in the manner we are with Asia. Australia is a multicultural SOCiety and What the President said was prophetic. The control we can no longer continue to expect people from of the Upper House really is crucial to any reforms other countries like Ireland, Turkey or Germany to that might take place, and that is something that has swear allegiance to a Queen. I find it unacceptable to been forgotten in this whole debate. Many of the have to do that. so-called problems with violation of Parliamentary privilege, procedures and conventions which the Mr Cooper interjected. Labor Party in government has apparently perpetrated on Victoria are as much the products of Mr COLE - The honourable member for abuse of the Upper House system in this State. Momington has made his contribution and I suggest he act accordingly. Last night in the Chamber I My view is that reform of any system is well attempted to listen to the noxious weeds debate, worthwhile. Nobody from the opposition has said which was enthralling to the extreme. Opposition there are no problems. Everybody supports some members were not concerned about debating the type of reform. I believe the reforms do not go issue but with the absence of a Minister for 4 anywhere near far enough. We need to have a minutes. One of the main problems was that most completely radical change of the whole members were out at the St Patrick's Day Parliamentary system in Victoria and Australia and, celebrations enjoying themselves. They were in particular, we need to abolish the Upper House. enjoying green beer and Guiness stout. One had to There is no need for the Upper House in Victoria. reflect on why there were so many Opposition members at the St Patrick's Day dinner and if they Honourable members interjecting. understood the meaning of it. Frankly they did not. MINISTERIAL STA'TEMENT

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Opposition members were out having a good time sidtes of the House were not here; they were outside drinking. Today the Leader of the Opposition and getting inebriated at the St Patrick's Day dinner, or a the Leader of the National Party spoke about lot of them were. democracy and denial, yet last night they were enjoying themselves while an important Bill on IMr LEIGH (Malvern) - On a point of order, Mr noxious weeks was being debated. Speaker, the honourable member for Melbourne has effectively accused members of Parliament of being The Opposition has the audacity to cry crocodile drunk last night outside this Chamber. I did not see tears about its being denied the right of contributing any drunken members of Parliament. Maybe the to the debate. honourable member is talking about his colleagues. To mention such matters is inappropriate and I ask Mr LEIGH (Malvern) -On a point of order, Mr the honourable member to withdraw that comment. Speaker, we are talking about the reforms to the Parliamentary process. What happened at the St Mr COLE (Melbourne) - On the point of order, I Patrick's Day dinner last night or the noxious weeds said "getting inebriated", I did not say they were debate is not relevant. The honourable member for inebriated. I withdraw the comment. Melbourne is not relating his remarks to the statement by the Premier. I ask you to bring him The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable back to order. member has withdrawn the comment and there is no point of order. Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and Agriculture) -On the point of order, Mr Speaker, Mr COLE - There were people who were not in the matter being canvassed by the honourable attendance in this Chamber for a number of reasons. member for Melbourne has been canvassed by One must understand what the St Patrick's Day several Opposition speakers. The honourable dinner and wearing green means and what the member is equally entitled to refer to the matter republican movement meant in past days. It was where it relates to matters concerning the manner in extraordinary to hear what the Leader of the which the House is run. That is all he is doing. National Party and others who attended the dinner last night said in their contribution to the debate. Mr COLE (Melbourne) - On the point of order, They did not talk about breaking links with Britain Mr Speaker, I raise it only in response to the debate; or what the British have done to Ireland over the I am responding to how many times it has been past 800 years. raised by the Opposition in debate. The Opposition has made such a point about it that it can be directly Honourable members interjecting. related to Parliamentary reform. Mr COLE - That is in the statement. I believe The SPEAKER -Order! On the point of order, I Parliamentary reform is necessary and it requires was momentarily distracted when the point of order conservative parties to come to grips with the fact was first raised. I have allowed the debate to be a that in 1992 we live in a multicultural society. On the wide-ranging one on the manner in which one hand Opposition members go to the St Patrick's Parliament handles the proceedings. Accordingly, I Day dinner yet on the other hand they have an do not intend to uphold the point of order at this allegiance to the Crown. Parliamentary reform time. I remind the honourable member for requires an overhaul of the Westminster system, not Melbourne that he must relate his remarks to the a continuation of the method we have, which motion before the House. includes the Legislative Council. We must remove our continued allegiance to the British government. Mr COLE - I am not saying that members should not have gone to the dinner and had a drink, Mr E. R. Smith - Do you support the IRA? and I am saying they should not all be in the House for the whole time to listen to the debate; anything Mr COLE - I do not support their actions but I but. I am pointing out that the Opposition has support the cause. I cannot support some of the different standards at different times about what is methods of Australian troops at Phuoc Tuy Province. acceptable and appropriate behaviour. I turn to the issue of conventions. There has been When the noxious weed debate took place last night much debate today on that subject. The Opposition the overwhelming majority of members on both mentioned conventions: that the honourable MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

112 ASSEMBLY Wednesday. 18 March 1992 member for Springvale should wear a tie, that the the context of the increasing role of the Federal Speaker should wear a wig, or that a member should government, of whatever complexion, and the move from one room to another. Those matters are changing role of the executive. An important factor irrelevant when it comes to true conventions. Who is that with population expansion, the increase in the will violate them more than anybody? The complexity of decisions that need to be made and Opposition. The threat to take away members' the speed with which changes need to be superannuation is one of the greatest violations of a undertaken, the executive group must make more convention of Parliament. and more decisions. To achieve accountability of that group - other than control by the Upper The SPEAKER - Order! I understand that House, which ought to be the strongest form of particular matter is before the Privileges Committee. control of the executive - an effective Parliamentary I advise the honourable member to avoid reference system must be in place. In spite of the hyperbole to it. from honourable members on both sides of the House, agreement exists that an effective Mr COLE - I apologise for that indiscretion. The Parliamentary system must be in place to maintain other conventions that have been broken are well control over the executive. It is becoming documented. In 1974 there was a refusal of Supply increasingly more important that that be so. and in 1975 there was the constant threat of the refusal of Supply because of the control in the I shall not become caught up in the question of Legislative Council. When I studied law I learned accountability; I believe governments must be that the threat of the refusal of Supply violated all accountable. However, there is a three or four-year the constitutional conventions. time lag before accountability is finally scrutinised and certainly in the meantime proper scrutiny of The conventions that are so conveniently trotted out legislation must be undertaken. and are in fact important to the operation of Parliament are consistently discarded and abused by Government these days is not about protracted the conservatives when the whim takes them. If the debates over Bills. Given the complexity of opposition is serious about reform - more governing, the joint Parliamentary system must be importantly, if members of the opposition are expanded. It has been developed along those lines serious about opposition to reform - there should and should be continued. I hope in saying that I am be some consistency in the approach taken. Practices not viewed as someone who is speaking in a certain that are unacceptable in constitutional law should way because he is in his dying days in government, not be engaged in. as it were. Until I was the chairperson of a committee I probably did not hold so strongly to the When talking about reform perhaps an issue that view that joint Parliamentary committees are should be considered is the resources provided to important and should be expanded. members of the opposition and the government. That is perhaps the real issue that forms the basis of Again, if the hyperbole in the debate is taken away, reform. Since I have been in Parliament members the general view is that members of Parliament have have been given the opportunity of representing a community of interest and joint Parliamentary their areas well; we have had substantial increases in committees provide the capacity to make collective salary and have been prOVided with additional staff. decisions. While on occasions the work of This fact has as much to do with the debate on committees has been politicised, on the whole reform as anything else. Nobody could deny that the membership of a committee is an enjoyable massive increase in resources has come from the experience; much can be gained from such recommendations of the Economic and Budget membership and the exercise is productive. I express Review Committee, a joint Parliamentary the hope that scrutiny of legislation and future committee. The increases since 1982 are not only the Budgets will be considered in that manner. I do not product of a government that is generous and has a consider the forms put forward in the Ministerial broad vision; they are a response to an important statement as being unacceptable. From discussions change in the complexity of government in this State in the Economic and Budget Review Committee and, indeed, around the world. process and from what I have read, it is apparent the opposition does not find the concept of expanding I wish to put reform into a proper context. As the the role of joint Parliamentary committees Premier pointed out at the beginning of her unacceptable. In fact, the Leader of the Opposition Ministerial statement, reform must be considered in has indicated that that role will be expanded. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Therefore I find it hard to understand why such established to manage them. I did not realise how outrage with and objection to the Ministerial many honourable members had a brother, uncle, statement has been expressed. nephew, or even a great grandfather with a particular interest in the gardens. As a regular I refer also to the concept of a separate appropriation visitor to the gardens, I was present during the Bill for Parliament. While I did not dissent from the entire debate. Some of what was said was good, but view expressed, it seemed to me it was not really much of it was repetitive. necessary and that appropriate control over the appropriation for the legislative process could be Honourable members interjecting. achieved simply by negotiation with the executive of the day. In a sense, it is a symbolic exercise to have The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable such an appropriation Bill and the concept was members for Malvern and Frankston South will supported unanimously by all parties. It is have their opportunity. appropriate and will ensure that if an executive - be it Labor or conservative - chooses at some stage Mr COLE - The opposition was trying to make to underrate or downgrade the value of the work of something difficult for the government that it need Parliament, discussion can take place at least not have made difficult. The important aspect of the through an appropriation Bill, and the matter will debate was not the substantive issues but the not just be hidden somewhere in the Budget Papers. delaying tactics with, as I said, speaker after speaker contributing to the debate, all in an attempt to I refer to question time. It has been an interesting ensure that Parliament did not finish until 2, 3, or 4 experience to be present in the House during 0' clock in the morning. question time. Perhaps the number of questions has been reduced, but it strikes me that at times the Members of the opposition cannot deny that they questions asked and their preamble are a bit longer have been good at using this Chamber for the than they should be. Sometimes answers are purposes of frustrating the government and have statements in themselves. As I said, given the not always adhered to what could be described as complexity of issues and the difficulty of explaining acceptable practices. At times debate has dragged on things briefly, honourable members should consider for no other reason than to delay government whether question time has been affected by recent measures. changes in governing. Mr Jasper interjected. Honourable members interjecting. The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Mr COLE - The fact of the matter is that member for Murray Valley will have his questions are answered in a political environment. It opportunity . is not for us to take the high moral ground and say that question time must be reformed. Since I have Mr COLE - The honourable member for Murray been here I have found it difficult to accept that the Valley refers to the proclivities of the honourable place is not about depoliticising matters but about member for Reservoir. I assure the honourable politicising them. The opposition parties have done member that the honourable member for Reservoir that with alacrity in respect of question time. never speaks as quickly as the honourable member for Murray Valley. I raise also the matter of debates. One of the most frustrating things about being in Parliament has The opposition has often acted in a manner that has been the lack of opportunity to debate issues denied government members the opportunity of because of the deliberate exercise of the opposition speaking in debate. to delay matters as long as possible. Mr LEIGH (Malvern) - On a point of order, Honourable members interjecting. Mr Speaker, the government sets the periods when the House sits and the time limits for debate on Bills. Mr COLE - For example, at the end of last It is ridiculous for the honourable member for session, it was particularly frustrating to hear Melbourne to blame the opposition for frustrating speaker after speaker -even as late as 3 o'clock in his attempts to speak in this place. He should direct the morning - talk about the Royal Botanic his remarks to the Leader of the House and the Gardens and the board that was proposed to be government Whip. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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The SPEAKER - Order! There is no point of group known as Jack and the Simpsonettes. They order. were a group of government backbenchers who deliberately orchestrated the turning of question Mr COLE (Melbourne)-I remember wanting to time into chaos. The former Premier, the honourable speak about a consumer affairs issue in a grievance member for Bundoora, played to that group debate when I believed I could make what I thought constantly because it provided the time element that was a valuable contribution. I asked the opposition allowed Ministers to avoid having to answer if I could speak and I was told that I could not speak questions. That policy led to a confrontationist because they had a speaker. They said they did not attitude during question time which we are now know who it was but they would go and get one! trying to resolve. The opposition should not cry crocodile tears about the abuse of Parliament. Parliament is basically concerned about question time. We do not have too many complaints about Interjections often become unbearable. I may make other aspects of Parliamentary proceedings. Some what I believe is a reasonable speech and, because I members complain about Ministers not attending say something that ruffles a few feathers when I the Chamber, but in my view they are relatively refer to republicanism, St Patrick's Day or other minor issues. I, and I believe most honourable issues, some members of the opposition almost have members, are concerned about question time. The apoplexy. Basically, the conservatives cannot take it. simple solution is to do away with questions They adopt a self-righteous approach and are more without notice. When I first came into this place in concerned about whether someone is wearing a tie 1961 there were no questions without notice. There or a wig. It does not take much to stir the were only 61 members of Parliament at that time. conservatives. There has been a substantial increase in the number of members since then and, unless Parliament sits It is difficult to concentrate when members are for longer periods or other steps are taken to allow interjecting constantly en masse. Interjections are members to have the opportunity of representing also a breach of Standing Orders. their constituents adequately, opportunities for debate will be further restricted. The Ministerial statement should be accepted by both sides of the House. I go back to my original Opportunities to debate Budget issues have altered point: the President of the Legislative Council said in dramatically. Years ago we had a least four works response to my question at a joint Parliamentary and services Bills: one dealt with forestry, one with committee that there has never been a better time in water supply, one with publiC works; I have history to carry out these reforms. It is in that forgotten the fourth one. Members had the context - those words were from a conservative opportunity of speaking on those parish pump member of Parliament who has served this place for issues that we all find cannot now be brought some 30 years - that we must embrace these forward. Honourable members then went through reforms, limited though they are. They do not the Budget item by item so that there were many address the overall problems of the Parliamentary opportunities for members to raise issues of concern process, but the opposition ought to come to the to their constituents. Those opportunities have gone. party and accept the fact that both parties have There is now only one Budget debate and failed to play the game as it should be played and honourable members are lucky to get half an hour to they should support the objectives outlined in the speak on it. statement. Many constituents in rural areas of Victoria believe Mr EV ANS (Gippsland East) - I shall make a Parliament is irrelevant because they cannot resolve few brief comments and, with more than three their problems through the Parliamentary process. A decades of experience in this place and having seen movement is developing throughout country the changes I have seen, I believe I have a Victoria calling for citizen-initiated referenda (CIR) contribution to make. I can rightly claim to have had because many misguided people believe that is the more experience in serving on Parliamentary only way they can get control over their local committees than any other member in the history of members of Parliament and ensure that they the State over that 3O-year period. represent the point of view they want them to represent. Unfortunately, because of the significantly Parliament is trying to solve an elementary problem. reduced opportunities for members to raise local It is trying to deal with the legacy left to it by a issues many people, particularly those in rural areas, MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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feel more and more alienated from Parliament. The is the point of trapping a Minister about facts? The CIR movement is a direct consequence of that fact. Minister cannot know all the facts all of the time. If he were given some notice to establish the facts he I am particularly concerned about the Parliament of could provide that information and the honourable Victoria Committee because it raises the possibility member could then ask a supplementary question to of further isolating rural people from this institution. elucidate any further matter the Minister may have missed. I am appalled that you, Mr Speaker, and the President have been involved in appointing two Ministers must tell the truth. If a Minister says that people to prepare the Strategic Management Review he does not know something when in fact he does or of the Parliament of Victoria. The people appointed if he gives false information, he deserves the full were a failed politician and a failed public servant wrath of the House. who are both now professors. Surely it would have been far more appropriate to give that task to people I am disturbed about the other proposed reforms to who had years of experience in dealing with Parliament because I believe we have a good system. Parliamentary democracy rather than passing on If we make far reaching and fundamental changes that responsibility to academics, people who live in such as those that were suggested by the honourable the airy-fairy atmosphere of academe. member for Melbourne, we run a grave risk of upsetting the whole system of democracy that is so I was particularly alarmed by the comments made well understood in this country. by the honourable member for Melbourne, which lead me to believe this is part of a deeper, more This House could regain at least some of the respect vicious agenda. Parliament should be very disturbed and honour it had in the past if the procedure for about the honourable member's comments. questions without notice were changed so that a member had to give at least 24 hours notice in The concept of questions without notice is absurd. It writing of his or her question to Mr Speaker, who is not in the realm of reality to expect every Minister could then ensure that the question does not express of the Crown to know everything that is going on in an opinion, which so often occurs when a question is his Qr her department at any given time. It is not asked about some disgraceful departmental possible. It is absurd to suggest that should be so. incident. Then we will get the respect Parliament deserves in a matter of weeks rather than requiring However, the opposition tries to trap Ministers. That these highly expensive and convoluted committees is why the government is in a defence mode and of inquiry. why it prolongs answers, thereby reducing the opportwlities for the opposition to raise matters that Previous speakers have referred to committee work. may prove embarrassing to it. The last thing any I disagree strongly with the honourable member for Minister can do is get up and say,'1 don't know; I Oakleigh who said our committee system is good will find out and let you know". He would be and should be developed further. When I first ridiculed. became a member of this House there were a number of committees made up of six members - Mr Jasper - They used to do it. two from each of the three political parties represented in the House. As a result, the Mr EVANS - That practice changed because of government never controlled the committees. I the development of that attitude. It is common cannot recall any case where a committee was practice in other Parliaments for a degree of notice to accused of making a decision on a political basis. be given for questions. In the early 1980s changes were made when the When I first came to this place, at the beginning of government set up committees of twelve members the day honourable members would rise in turn to with massive staffs that included research staff. The ask questions that appeared on the Notice Paper. For research officers have totally destroyed the example, I would get up and say, '1 ask question committee system that has worked so well for the No. 4 as it appears on the Notice Paper". The State. In many cases paid professionals have used Minister would answer the question. the opportwlity to enhance their curricula vitae rather than doing work for the benefit of the State. Question time allows for the gathering of information about government administration. What PETITIONS

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Incidentally, during the early days the committees The legislation will not solve the problems of straying, were mainly staffed by part-time secretaries. fouling and excessive and irresponsible breeding of Members of the committees had to do their companion animals. The legislation is unacceptable. homework. They could not rely on research officers to hand over questions. They had to know what they Further consultation with the public and interested were talking about. As a result we got sensible, groups is required before any legislation is enacted. intelligent and well balanced reports. Now, we have reports done by academics whose main concern is Your petitioners therefore pray that this House will that they can say, 'We prepared this report", when defer the legislation ending consultation and review they apply for their next jobs. with interested groups.

I know of a former research officer on the Public And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. Bodies Review Committee who used his time to prepare such a document, which I believe was By Mr Kennett (15 271 signatures) and Dr published in the Parliamentarian, the publication of Napthine (53 signatures) the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. R. E. Ross Industrial Centre Committees should be more directly controlled by the Parliament instead of as they are at present. I To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the find my position on the Public Bodies Review Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: Committee is an absolute waste of time. You can be absent from that committee for two months and We, the undersigned, call for recognition of- come back to find there has been no change or (1) the social and overall economic value of the development. The committee system should be R. E. Ross Industrial Centre in assisting the returned to the one we had previously. personal development and rehabilitation of the disabled people working in the centre; I appreciate the fact that I am a conservative and I am reluctant to accept change, but I believe I can (2) the moral responsibility to ensure the centre is accept change when I see it will benefit the allocated sufficient recurrent funding to remain community. The proposals I have heard today will fully operational in view of the acceptance just two not add significant value to Parliament but the years ago of a donation of $400 000 from the Ross suggestion to eliminate questions without notice will Trust; and solve the problem. (3) the pressing need and responsibility of the Alfred Hospital board, in consultation with the Caulfield Debate adjourned on motion of Mr NORRIS community, to prepare a plan of development for (Dandenong). the Caulfield General Medical Centre. Debate adjourned until next day. Your petitioners therefore pray that the Minister for Health on behalf of the government will immediately PETITIONS direct that the foregoing occurs.

The Clerk - I have received the following And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. petitions for presentation to Parliament: By Mr Tanner (3663 signatures) Companion Animals Bill Laid on table. To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT COMMITIEE

The humble petition of the undersigned sheweth that Mental disturbance and community safety the Companion Animal Act currently before the Parliament of Victoria is unacceptable in its present Mrs RAY (Box Hill) presented report of Social form. Development Committee on inquiry into mental disturbance and community safety, together with appendices, extracts from proceedings and minority report. LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL COMMITIEE

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Laid on table. GRAIN ELEVATORS (AMENDMENT) BILL Ordered that report, appendices, extracts from proceedings and minority report be printed. Introduction and first reading

LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL For Mr SPYKER (Minister for Transport), Mr COMMITIEE Roper introduced a Bill to amend the Grain Elevators Act 1958 and for other purposes. Witness Protection Act 1991 Read first time. Mr E. R. SMITH (Glen Waverley) presented report upon a mechanism for monitoring the operation of ADJOURNMENT the Witness Protection Act 1991, together with appendices. Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I move: Laid on table. That the House do now adjourn. Ordered that report and appendices be printed. Springvale bypass road PAPERS Mr LEIGH (Malvern) - I direct a matter to the Laid on table by Clerk: Minister for Transport and hope he will be listening to my comments and will in fact come into the Coal Mine Workers', Pensions Tribunal-Report for House and address this concern. If not, I request the the year 1990-91. Minister at the table, the Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training, to pass it Dental Technicians Act 1972- on to him. It concerns what I consider to be a severe dereliction of duty by the Minister for Transport. Advanced Dental Technicians Qualifications Board - Report for the year 1990-91 On 11 April 1991 the Springvalley-Dingley Residents Dental Technicians Ucensing Committee - Action Group wrote to the Minister for Transport Report for the year 1990-91 requesting a number of issues be addressed by him. It was Signed by Mr David Blanks, the honorary secretary, and it states: FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL As you are aware, SDRAG presented a petition to the State government in June 1989 containing 1509 Introduction and first reading signatures objecting to the proposed closure of Spring Road at the junction with the new Springvale bypass For Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General), Mr Roper road (when constructed). Public meetings were held by introduced a Bill to amend the Fisheries Act 1968. SDRAG on two occasions and were well attended by local residents who overwhelmingly endorsed their Read first time. objections to the proposed closure.

ABORIGINAL LAND (MANATUNGA The bypass road proposed by the government could LAND) BILL be described as nothing other than another south-eastern arterial car park with intersections, Introduction and first reading and we all know about the failure of the south-eastern car park. This community group is Mr ROPER (Minister for Aboriginal Affairs) highly responsible because it is asking the Minister introduced a Bill to authorise the grant by the for Transport not to build the bypass road today but Crown of land at Robinvale and for other purposes. to wait until the government has saved enough money to build it properly. Read first time. A road already connects the communities of Springvale South and Dingley. The cutting off of ADJOURNMENT

118 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 that road, which is supported by the Springvale Environment Protection Authority council, will isolate those two communities. Many Springvale South people shop in Dingley. It will be Mr JASPER (Murray Valley) -I raise a matter disadvantageous to the Dingley business for the Minister for Conservation and Environment community because people will have to go out and in another place in his responsibility for the around on the major arterial roads. Environment Protection Authority. I am sure the Minister at the table, the Minister for Employment, The government proposes to turn this road into a Post-Secondary Education and Training, will bring it bike track only with an underpass. VIe ROADS has to his attention. My concern is with the high increase told the local community that funds are not available in the charges being imposed by the Environment to construct an underpass, and in any case the height Protection Authority, especially on municipalities of the bypass would have to be increased so that across country Victoria and on water and sewerage trucks could use Spring Road. I point out that the authorities. community would be quite happy if this road were used only for local traffic, with no large trucks being Honourable members will recall that a Bill was able to use it. debated in Parliament last year which provided for an increase in EP A licence fees. During the debate Eleven months has gone by but the Minister for Ministers in this House and the other place said that Transport has failed to respond to the letter from although Environment Protection Authority licence this group. The Minister received the letter because 1 fees would be increased, the increases would not have a copy of a letter signed by his private exceed 100 per cent. secretary, Noelle Trembath, dated 18 April stating that the letter had been received and it was being After the legislation was passed and regulations looked into. Noelle Trembath is described by Mr were made as a result of amendments to the Act, the Blanks, in a letter to me, as a highly unpopular EP A went through the usual procedure of making a Springvale South councillor. regulatory impact statement, in which it stated that the fees charged to various authorities by the On 27 November 1991 SDRAG faxed the Minister Environment Protection Authority would be for Transport asking for a response but it has increased. received only silence. On previous occasions when the Minister has dealt with people he does not want I point out to honourable members that the to listen to he explains that the faxes get stuck in the Subordinate Legislation Subcommittee of the Legal machine and he does not receive them. and Constitutional Committee is still investigating the regulations. The Minister for Transport is supposedly interested in the local community but it has taken more than Municipalities and authorities are facing mammoth eleven months - which must go in the Guiness Book increases in the licence fees imposed by the EP A. A of Records - to respond to a community number of municipalities and authorities within my organisation. Can it be that the Minister is either electorate have told me they have received bills indecisive, does not know the answer or cannot showing huge increases in fees. For example, the afford to take the necessary action? City of Wangaratta sewerage authority last year paid an EPA fee of $1957.57; this year it faces a bill of The community organisation has told me that so $11 683.32, an increase of almost 500 per cent. That is long as it knows what is happening it will accept it. one example of many across the State - although in If the Minister for Transport has any guts he will some cases the increases are not as large. walk into this House tonight and tell the community what will take place. He will tell the community The Shire of Oxley, which operates a number of whether he proposes to destroy this local rubbish tips within its municipality, faces hefty community. It seems to me it is about time he came increases in licence fees. Last year the shire paid an out of his bunker and came back into the Chamber EP A licence fee of $203 for its Markwood tip; this and represented the community he claims to year it faces a fee of $535.60, an increase of 164 per represent. I consider his attitude disgraceful. cent. The licence fee for the Moyhu tip has been increased from $203 last year to $680 this year, an The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable increase of almost 235 per cent. member's time has expired. ADJOURNMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 119

The bills such municipalities and authorities receive As I said, three community health centres received include a complicated formula that is used to justify additional funding. As I go through them one by one the increases - but the increases are not justified by I am sure honourable members will come to the improved services. conclusion that the East Bentleigh centre requires an extra phYSiotherapist position. I have advised municipalities and authorities in my electorate to object to the increases within 21 days The St Kilda Community Health Centre has a and, subject to the response of the Environment catchment population of 40 000. Last year it had one Protection Authority, to take up the matter with the physiotherapist and as a result of the changes was Administrative Appeals Tribunal. given an additional 0.5 position, which gave it an effective full-time complement of 1.5. I ask the Minister for Conservation and Environment to explain why the EP A has increased The St Kilda centre has a waiting list time of up to the fees without any justification whatsoever. As I three weeks. It can accommodate between three and said, during debate on the legislation the Minister five patients on its waiting list, with a maximum list said licence fees would not be increased by more of no more than ten. Also, the centre refers some of than 100 per cent - although even an increase of its physiotherapy patients to the Alfred and that order is too high. Caulfield hospitals for treatment.

I ask the Minister to say whether he believes the The Southport Community Health Centre has a increases are just or whether action should be taken catchment population of between 30 000 and 40 000. to reduce the fees to more realistic levels. Prior to the changes it had one physiotherapist; it was given an additional 0.5 position for outreach East Bentleigh Community Health Centre work only.

Mrs BARKER (Bentleigh) - The matter I ask the It would be nice for the East Bentleigh centre to Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education receive the funds for a position for outreach work, and Training to direct to the attention of the Minister but it has too much trouble trying to treat people for Health concerns the East Bentleigh Community who come to the centre. The Southport centre has a Health Centre, which has now reached a crisis point waiting list of apprOximately ten patients per week, in its ability to provide its catchment area with all of whom are elderly and/or pensioners. physiotherapy services. I believe it is time the Minister for Health appointed another The Prahran Community Health Centre has a phYSiotherapist to ensure the continuation of the catchment population of 45000. It had one excellent and caring work done by the centre. phYSiotherapist but received funds for an additional position after the transfer, and that person has Last year members of the community health centre already been appointed. The Prahran centre does not hoped the transfer of Prince Henry's Hospital assess those people who present for treatment, so it services to the Moorabbin and Clayton campuses of treats anyone at all regardless of whether they have the Monash Medical Centre would enhance the a health benefits card. The centre has a waiting list physiotherapy services available at the centre in the time of up to two weeks, so most people have to same way as the services had been enhanced at wait only two weeks for an appointment. centres in the Prince Henry's Hospital area. The East Bentleigh Community Health Centre has a The only centres that have received additional catchment population of at least 97000. There are physiotherapy services following the transfer of the only two physiotherapists on the staff, who see only Prince Henry's Hospital facilities are the centres at St those patients who present with health benefits Kilda, Southport and Prahran. cards. Unfortunately in the past few months the waiting list has increased to 80 patients a week, and I shall provide the House with information about the there is now a six to eight-week wait for anybody physiotherapy services offered at the East Bentleigh wanting to be added to the list. centre and the other centres to show why the East Bentleigh Community Health Centre should receive One of the many pressures on the centre is the extra resources. resources needed to man the very popular regional hydrotherapy pool. The East Bentleigh Community Health Centre has tried to alleviate the problem by ADJOURNMENT

120 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 applying for HACC funding to employ a part-time understand it, being unprepared to accept the grant; pool attendant. Because the application did not fall therefore, the two police vehicles will not be made within the guidelines it could not be considered. The available. 1 understand that negotiations between employment of a part-time pool attendant would the Ministry and the council have failed. have eased some of the pressure on the physiotherapists, allowing them to return to their The situation at Doncaster is inadequate. The police normal work at the centre, thereby reducing the there have insufficient vehicles to handle crime waiting time for treatment. problems in the area. The change of workload there has led to the number of people charged at the The information that members of the centre and 1 Doncaster police station - that is, the number of have gathered clearly shows that with a catchment briefs of evidence - increasing from 483 in 1987 to population of 97 000 and an lUlfeasonable waiting 953 in 1991, a 120 per cent increase in the workload list, the centre needs another physiotherapist as a in only four years. Most of the increase has matter of urgency. 1 ask the Minister for Health to eventuated because of the change in the boundaries attend to the matter immediately. and new responsibilities of the officers at that station. The 120 per cent increase in the number of Doncaster police station serious crimes demonstrates a need for additional vehicles. Mr PERRIN (Bulleen) - I raise a matter for the attention of the Minister for Police and Emergency It is the responsibility of the State government to Services, but in his absence refer it to the Minister for provide police vehicles and manpower for its police Employment, Post-Secondary Education and stations; it is not a local government responsibility. I Training. My complaint is about the lack of police ask the Minister for Police and Emergency Services vehicles at the Doncaster police station. That station to live up to the promises made to the residents and has taken on an additional workload because areas to provide an additional two marked police cars for of Bulleen and Templestowe have been transferred the uniformed branch. from the control of Heidelberg police to the Doncaster personnel. As a further example, recently a semitrailer overtunled on a busy road; that accident occupied The change of boundaries and workload means the every police vehicle in Doncaster and Templestowe Doncaster police must service 108 000 people in the for half a day. Therefore, no police vehicles were City of Doncaster and Templestowe in an area available for dispatch from the Doncaster station covering about 90 square kilometres. I notice the during that time. honourable member for Warrandyte is present; the police at Doncaster must cover the Warrandyte area I call upon the Minister to allocate funding for an when the Warrandyte station is closed because that additional two police cars at the Doncaster police is not a 24-hour station. station.

Therefore, the Doncaster police station has a need North Essendon local government for more motor vehicles. Officially that station boundaries received an extra eight uniformed police officers because of the change of responsibilities at MrTHOMSON (Pascoe Vale) -1 draw to the Doncaster and at the same time was promised an attention of the Minister for Ethnic, Municipal and extra two marked police cars but unfortunately Community Affairs through the Minister at the those vehicles have not yet appeared. At present the table, the Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary uniformed branch at Doncaster has one marked van, Education and Training, that last Saturday the one marked sedan and another marked sedan on residents of what is referred to as the North loan from another department of the Ministry with Essendon triangle - the area bounded by Keilor which to service that large community. Road, Kerferd Street and the Tullamarine Freeway -voted 841 to 190 to become part of the Recognising the needs of the community, the City of City of Essendon and move from the City of Keilor. Doncaster and Templestowe promised a $50 000 grant to the Ministry to provide two additional Mr Gude - A clear vote. vehicles for the uniformed branch at Doncaster. Unfortunately, the conditions placed on that grant Mr THOMSON - Yes, in excess of an 80 per cent have led to police personnel at the highest levels, as 1 majority. The people of North Essendon have fought ADJOURNMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 121

for this change for many years. They have been honourable members may be aware, the fund was frustrated by the City of Keilor preventing their wound up last year. Licensed wholesalers were return to the jurisdiction of the City of Essendon. formerly required to contribute to the fund for the They sought the change on the grounds of greater purpose of ensuring that producers' claims were met community interest in Essendon and a commonality by the licensed wholesalers; but wholesalers are now with State and Federal electoral boundaries. At required to take out individual indemnity insurance present they receive the Keilor Messenger but are part for that purpose. The fund had operated for about of the State Pascoe Vale electorate and the Federal twenty years; around 1987 notice was given to wind Wills electora te. up that fund.

Also involved in any move from Keilor to Essendon A constituent of mine, a licensed wholesaler, has would be the attraction of lower municipal rates and brought to my attention his concern because he now an apparent lack of support for their concerns by the has been levied almost $1000 as a final contribution City of Keilor. For example, many of the North to the fund. Quite rightly, that gentleman has Essendon residents live closer to the north-south complained about the administration of the fund runway of Essendon Airport than do any residents because, although everyone would say that the adjacent to any major airport runway in Australia; claims of producers are paramount, why were the yet the Keilor council has not supported them in administrators of the fund not aware that the fund opposition to the continued operation of Essendon would have a large shortfall when it ceased to Airport. operate in approximately March 1991? As I understand it, the cut-off time of December 1991 was I ask the Minister to take prompt action to established to allow people to lodge liability claims; implement the results of Saturday's poll which at that time the fund shortfall was almost $200 000. represented a remarkable result for the residents of North Essendon, and particularly for Ken It is reasonable for the Minister for Food and Templeton whose tenacity and perseverance over Agriculture to advise my constituent and other many years has been rewarded. licensed wholesalers why the fund was so poorly administered in the latter years, thereby leading to I ask the Minister to take prompt action to alter the that Significant shortfall. Why was such a shortfall local government boundaries and to examine the not foreseen and what options, if any, were fact, arising from Saturday's poll, that such polls are considered about a final payment from licensed conducted by the "outgoing" municipality - in this wholesalers to payout the shortfall? What options of case, the City of Keilor. The City of Keilor was in a assistance, if any, were considered for wholesalers? classic conflict of interest position because it strongly These complaints are reasonable and are deserving opposed the change of municipal boundaries; yet, of an answer from the Minister. Keilor councillors and officers were handing out the "No" how-to-vote cards in addition to actually Shepparton Harness Racing Club conducting the poll. Mr KILGOUR (Shepparton) - The matter I Any public confidence in the outcome of a poll direct to the attention of the Minister for Sport and would be boosted if it were conducted by a neutral Recreation concerns a problem with the Shepparton party. It would be no better to transfer the conduct Harness Racing Club. That club has been conducting of the poll in this case to the City of Essendon. Such Anzac Day meetings for the past 25 years, with a poll should be conducted by a neutral party, for proceeds going to the Returned and Services League example, the Commonwealth Electoral Office, which of Australia (RSL); those meetings have raised much has expertise in such matters. The issue of who money for charity. Each has been conducted as a should conduct such a poll needs close examination Totalizator Agency Board meeting. and I ask the Minister to examine this concern. However, this year the club has been advised it will Farm Produce Merchants and not be involved in the comprehensive racing Commission Agents Guarantee Fund investment service for the public (CRISP) system of betting on that day because of the number of race Mr TANNER (Caulfield) - The matter I raise for meetings throughout the State. Therefore, people the attention of the Minister for Food and who attend that meeting at Shepparton will be Agriculture concerns the Farm Produce Merchants unable to bet on other Victorian or interstate race and Commission Agents Guarantee Fund. As meetings; at the same time, interstate betters will be ADJOURNMENT

122 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 unable to bet on the Shepparton meeting. This action Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia will lead to a loss of revenue to the club although the has been added to by the special Anzac Day CRISP system is available for all other racing clubs meetings that are now the norm for many galloping, on Anzac Day; and the financial contribution from greyhound and harness racing clubs. The fact that the club to the RSL will be significantly reduced. the Shepparton club has been removed from the CRISP system on that day is the outcome of The Shepparton Harness Racing Club, which has discussions between the TAB and clubs at the start already submitted its prize money pool of $17 000, of the racing season. I will clarify the position by will be severely embarrassed. The money will not be talking with the TAB and hope to benefit the forthcoming from the CRISP system of betting for a Shepparton club in the future. meeting it has held for the past 25 years. The club faces a loss of revenue and a loss of status as a result Honourable members should bear in mind that this of losing the Anzac Day meeting which has created year harness racing clubs have had about lOO extra enormous problems. meetings on the TAB; the greyhounds have had an additional 22 meetings; and the galloping code has I ask the Minister to speak with the TAB to ascertain had about fifteen meetings. I will check out the what can be done so that the Shepparton Harness position with the TAB for the Shepparton club Racing Club can return to the CRISP system for the tomorrow and see what I can do. meeting it has held on Anzac Day for the past 25 years. Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education and Training) - The Outstanding wages honourable member for Narracan raised for the attention of the Minister for Finance the outstanding Mr DELZOPPO (Narracan) - I raise with the payment to one of his constituents. I will direct that Minister for Employment, Post-Secondary Education to his attention. and Training, an issue to take up with the Minister for Finance concerning a constituent of mine, Wendy The honourable member for Caulfield raised a Smith from Warragul, who worked as a relief matter for the attention of the Minister for Food and cleaner at the Warragul police station for twenty Agriculture, and I will direct that to his attention. days from September last year to January this year. and is owed $804. The honourable member for Pascoe Vale referred to the results of a ballot that has occurred in North Despite numerous telephone calls, all at sm rates, Essendon requesting the transfer of residents from she has been told, "Rest assured, my cheque is in the the City of Keilor to the City of Essendon. I will mail". That is not good enough. Her husband is off direct that to the Minister for Ethnic, Municipal and work with a broken ankle and she desperately needs Community Affairs for her consideration. the money. All inquiries to the Minister for Finance, through a Mr Peter Davey, have been fobbed off. The honourable member for Bulleen raised for the attention of the Minister for Police and Emergency Honourable members will agree that if people do Services police availability, and I will direct that to jobs for the government they deserve to get paid. I his attention. ask the Minister to ensure that this woman gets her $804. The honourable member for Murray Valley raised for the attention of the Minister for Conservation Responses and Environment the matter of Environment Protection AuthOrity licences, and I will direct that Mr TREZISE (Minister for Sport and to his attention. Recreation) - I acknowledge the request of the honourable member for Shepparton for the The honourable member for Malvern raised for the Shepparton Harness Racing Club to retain its Anzac attention of the Minister for Transport the issue of Day meeting for this year as it has for the past 25 transport in the Dingley area, and I will direct that to years. his attention.

I suppose this year is a little different with Anzac The honourable member for Bentleigh referred to the Day falling on a Saturday. The normal Saturday need, in her view, for additional physiotherapy racing calendar for Victoria, New South Wales, services at the East Bentleigh Community Health ADJOURNMENT

Wednesday, 18 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 123

Centre. I have fond memories of that centre and Motion agreed to. hope only that its soil is somewhat softer than when I dug the first sod, which was very tough indeed. I House adjourned 6.6 p.m. will direct the additional requirements she seeks to the Minister for Health for her attention. ADJOURNMENT.

124 ASSEMBLY Wednesday, 18 March 1992 THE MINISTRY

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 125

Thursday, 19 March 1992 on such an important instrument. I refer the Leader of the National Party to my previous answer. The government has made it dear that there will be a statement on 23 March. That position was made dear some time ago, and the government will stand The SPEAKER (Hon. Ken Coghill) took the chair at by it. 10.34 a.m. and read the prayer. JOB CREATION THE MINISTRY Mr BATCHELOR (Thomastown) - In line with Ms KIRNER (Premier) - I wish to announce a the government's commitment to create long-term further change to Ministerial arrangements. I inform jobs for Victorians, will the Premier advise the the House that the Honourable John Harrowfield, House of the progress of the government's jobs and not the Honourable Jim Kennan, will answer on councils in creating jobs for the future? behalf of the Minister for Conservation and Environment in the other place. Ms KIRNER (Premier) - The most frequent question asked of politicians these days is: where will jobs be in the future? The community is well QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE aware that many old industries are being restructured and that, therefore, fewer jobs will be available in those industries. That has a particular VICfORIAN EQUITY TRUST impact on Victoria.

Mr KENNETr (Leader of the Opposition) - I The government is now working with employers ask the Treasurer whether it is a fact that the and unions to generate jobs in new industries. In Victorian Equity Trust roll-over offer involves a order to take that issue further, in January this year I return to investors equivalent to more than announced that the government would set up jobs 9 per cent a year and will increase the total cost of councils comprising industries, unions, employers the VET fiasco to approximately $920 million in and the government to ensure that we analyse where future jobs will be and are able to deliver another three years. them. Mr Leigh interjected. We had one proposal for a jobs council by the The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the honourable Leader of the Opposition. I think it was called a clean food job council. I am sure he has eaten lots of member for Malvern. He will be aware from dean food in his breakfasts, lunches and dinners yesterday's debate that many members are which he keeps telling us about, but we have heard concerned to improve the decorum of the House, and I ask him to assist. nothing from him about who might be on that council, what it might do or indeed -- Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - The Victorian Mr Plowman interjected. Equity Trust has proved a most satisfactory vehicle for both the government and investors. The government is committed to making a statement on Ms KIRNER - That is right. The honourable Monday, 23 March, and the decision announced member for Evelyn interjects that they do not happen to be in government. They never will be then will be in the long-term interests of the Victorian people. bec~use they do not have any policies. Not a single pohcy! After question time we will get another gimmick from the opposition. They are going to say Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National to the Premier of the day, "Madam Premier, you can Party) - I ask the Treasurer whether the have 15 minutes to respond on jobs." I tell them government has offered to buy back Victorian now: I am responding to the people of Victoria. I am E~uity Trust roll-over units in 1995 at a price that not responding to this policyless, hopeless Leader of will escalate in line with the increases in the stock market's all ordinaries index. the Opposi tion. Our jobs statement will be produced on Wednesday Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - It is not and we look forward to the response from the appropriate for me to speculate about the decision QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

126 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992 opposition. In our jobs statement it will be seen that It is time the opposition woke up to the fact that we are building on the action for jobs in the employers are not on about politicians; they are not February statement of the One Nation package with on about political parties; they are on about policies. our own action for jobs. Will employers support a Leader of the Opposition who has no policies? No! Will employers support a In the meantime, these jobs councils are working. Leader of the Opposition who refuses to back a Yesterday the first job council met. It is the fibre partnership between industry and government? No! processing jobs council and the membership of that Will they support a Leader of the Opposition who jobs council reads like a Who's Who of employers. It deliberately sets out-- is very interesting -- Mr J. F. McGRATH (Warmambool) - On a point Honourable members interjecting. of order, Mr Speaker, it is obvious the Premier is now launching into a debate on the question. I admit The SPEAKER - Order! There are too many the question was broad but she is now launching interjections from both sides of the House. I again into debate. She has been answering the question for ask the Minister for Finance to remain silent. 7 minutes and I ask you to bring her back to order and round off her answer. Ms KIRNER - The Opposition laughs. The employers are not laughing. They are keen to be on Honourable members interjecting. this jobs council. They are keen to make a positive contribution to this jobs council for fibre processing. The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the honourable The Who's Who of that particular value-adding member for Evelyn. He is well aware of the Standing industry that the Leader of the Opposition Orders of this House and he should remain silent constantly talks about in one-liners and laughs at when the Chair rises. I will not warn him again. today are on that council. The council comprises Laurie Wilson, former chief executive of Bowater On the point of order, I do uphold the point of order. Scott Ltd; Richard Pratt, the Chairman of Pratt The Premier's remarks were commencing to debate Industries; David Bourke, President, Recyclers the question and, in view of the time, I ask her to Association of Victoria -- round off her reply.

Mr Perton interjected. Ms KIRNER (Premier) - Thank you, Mr Speaker. In the debate we are about to have today let Ms KIRNER - The honourable member for us hear what proposals there are from the Doncaster might have a few other things to explain opposition to get employers and unions working in the not too far distant future. together with the opposition to create jobs in this State. We are doing the work; we have the The council also includes Rob Barfus, Chief partnership. The opposition offers nothing but is Executive Officer, Municipal Association of Victoria; undermining the confidence of this State and the Harry Barber, Coordinator, Conservation Council of employers in policy-based action. Victoria; and Ms Meleta Proebstl, President, Victorian Fishing Industry Federation. GOVERNMENT APPOINTMENTS

The first meeting picked up on some of the issues Mr BROWN (Gippsland West) - I refer the that are already in hand such as the recycling Minister for Transport to a number of statements industry and it identified 25 areas for progress. The made under oath to the Upper House Committee on council will describe the investment in that growth Government Appointments which contradict the that is needed and will remove the barriers. One Minister's public assurances to this House about his might contrast that with what the opposition has knowledge and personal involvement in said about employers: opposition spokespersons do employment contracts and I ask: will the Minister not want to talk to David Edwards, the head of the now appear before the committee to seek to clear his employment association, because he might not agree name, or is it a fact that his continual with their policies. I do not know how they would non-appearance before the committee is further know whether he would agree with their policies confirmation of his guilt? because they do not have any. The SPEAKER -Order! Would the House pause while I take advice on the admissibility of the QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 127 question? Before calling the Minister to reply I ask VICTORIAN CERTIFICATE OF the honourable member for Gippsland West to EDUCATION indicate whether the statements to which he referred were given in public session. Mr JOLLY (Dove ton) - Will the Minister for School Education advise the House of the Mr BROWN - Mr Speaker, my understanding is implications for Victorian certificate of education that the statements given by individuals -- (VCE) students of recent changes in the assessment process for VCE students in Victoria as announced Honourable members interjecting. by the Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Board (VCAB)? The SPEAKER - Order! I ask honourable members on my right to remain silent so the Chair Mr POPE (Minister for School Education) - I can clearly hear the information to be provided by thank the honourable member for his question. Most the honourable member. honourable members probably saw the article on page 3 of this morning's Age headed, "VCE results to Mr BROWN - My understanding is the come in stages". As honourable members will be statements to which I refer have been given by a aware, the VCE has been fully implemented this number of individuals on the public record and in year. Those honourable members who have been public before that committee. going around schools will be aware of the wide acceptance of the VCE by students and teachers. Mr SPYKER (Minister for Transport) - I thank the honourable member for his question, which Also, those honourable members who are diligent indicates the lack of policy that the opposition has, and visit the schools will understand there are some especially in relation to -- bugs in the system. I pay tribute to the newest member of Parliament, the honourable member for Honourable members interjecting. Shepparton, who is obviously going around to schools because indeed, in his local paper in The SPEAKER - Order! Honourable members Shepparton an article is headed, "Kilgour says VCE on my left make a mockery of question time if they mm among schools positive". The article quotes do not enable the Minister to reply. I also indicate to the honourable member: the Minister that his answer must be relevant to the question that was asked. The schools believed the VCE regulates the system and they prefer it because it involves consistent work Mr SPYKER - It is relevant, Mr Speaker, throughout the whole year, Mr Kilgour said. That is because you must ask the question: how many times very important. do you flog a dead horse? I totally agree with the honourable member's Honourable members interjecting. statements and I pay tribute to him for going to the schools. The honourable member has also said there The SPEAKER - Order! Would the Minister are problems about issues such as the verification pause until the House comes to order? I warn the process, with which I also agree. honourable member for Bennettswm. He is well aware of the Standing Orders of this House and I ask We have had two independent reports about the him to remain silent. I will not warn him again. VCE: one by Professor Northfield and the other by Dr Vivian Eyre. Or Eyre's report was on the Mr SPYKER - We are well aware which side of verification process. That report was discussed and the House the horses are. I clearly indicated that I deba ted yesterday by VCAB which decided to appeared before the Privileges Committee; there was accept the recommendations. These will improve the debate in this House; there has been public scrutiny verification process to a great extent. of the statements I made and I believe they are the proper processes that have been gone through. What we now have in place and what we are Anything that has been said which I have been able putting in place is a process whereby students doing to pick up through the media is not inconsistent common assessment tasks (CATs) in May and June with the evidence I have given to both the Privileges will receive their results on those CATs in the first Committee and this House. weeks of August and September. Most students will actually know how they are going by September this QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

128 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992 year rather than having to wait, as in the past, until debating the issue and the answer is now not the following year to get their results. That gives relevant to the question which was asked of the them some idea of the results they may get and the Minister. directions they may take - tertiary education, TAFE, higher education, or whatever. The SPEAKER - Order! I do not uphold the point of order. In view of the time I ask the Minister I certainly compliment VCAB on picking up the to round off his reply. work of Dr Vivian Eyre. As I have said, the VCE is widely accepted across the board. It is unfortunate Mr POPE (Minister for School Education) - The there is carping about the VCE in several areas; the VCE is working well throughout all schools in carping is conducted on a fairly regular basis in the Victoria. Any honourable member who visits any Herald-Sun but also of particular note is the school will find that that is the case. The VCE is in its unfortunate way in which the shadow Minister for first full year of implementation. Obviously there are education continually carps; he comes out with bugs and there will continue to be some bugs. We political rhetoric about the VCE, and undermines will deal with each and every one of them with confidence in the VCE. respect to the verification process, teacher workload, the issue with Professor Mack, mathematics, English The other day a student asked, "Are there two and the VCAB working party. Every one of the VCEs?" After the response, 'Why do you say there issues that has been raised has been dealt with. are two VCEs?" the student said, 'There is the one I am doing and the one I am reading about". The If any opposition member asks the students, teachers reason students are reading about the VCE and the and parents about the VCE he will find that there is political rhetoric about the VCE is because the wide acceptance of the VCE. Despite the continual shadow Minister is saying how fatally flawed it is. political grandstanding by Mr Hayward, who is demoraliSing students, the VCE will still be well However, other honourable members opposite accepted. know the merits of the VCE; I have already mentioned the honourable member for Shepparton. VICTORIAN EQUITY TRUST If they have any constructive criticisms they are picked up, in the main, but the honourable member _ Mr I. W. SMITH (Polwarth) - I direct my for Prahran is saying there are problems. question to the Treasurer. Is it a fact that the Victorian government authorities which held What did I do? I invited him to sit down with me on Victorian Equity Trust (VEf) units have expressed a regular basis - perhaps on a fortnightly or a dissatisfaction with the VET by selling 125 million monthly basis - and with Howard Kelly, Chairman units, which represents 87 per cent of their total of VCAB, to see whether his concerns have any holdings? foundation or whether we can work through it. He refused to take up the offer! I repeated the offer to Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - As I said the honourable member for Prahran. I said, 'Will earlier, the VET has proved to be a satisfactory you sit down with me and Howard Kelly? You say vehicle for both investors and the government. It is you have some problems with the VCE. Let's find acceptable for there to be a trade in the units. The out what they are and work through them together". government will be making a statement about the He refused again. It reached the stage where even VEf on 23 March 1992. the Independent Schools Association came to me with the problem of the honourable member Mr W. D. McGRATH (Lowan) - I ask the knocking back the invitation to try to talk through Treasurer: what is the effective annual cost of funds the issues. The association has written to both the under the latest Victorian Equity Trust (VEf) honourable member for Prahran and me. I have roll-over offer and what is the current interest rate responded in writing saying that I am more than on the non-traditional borrowings? happy to meet the honourable member for Prahran, together with members of the Independent Schools Honourable members interjecting. Association, at any time. The honourable member has continually come out with political rhetoric -- The SPEAKER - Order! The Minister for Transport! Mr STEGGALL (Swan Hill) - On a point of order, Mr Speaker, I believe the Minister is now QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

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Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - The VET has Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National provided the government with a rate on borrowings Party) - On a point of order, Mr Speaker, on a point which is marginally beneath the market rate. of relevance, I ask you to bring the Minister back to Although there is a drop in interest rates, that the question. The question was quite specific: it margin has tightened. The final statement that the referred to a statement 1 made. The Minister, who government will make on the VET on Monday will claims to have such an interest in Melbourne and provide all of that information. who has advised publicly that when he retires he will leave the country -- TOURISM IN VICTORIA Mr Micallef interjected. Mrs WILSON (Dandenong North) - 1 ask the Minister for Tourism whether he has heard of a The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the honourable suggestion that Victoria should be promoted as the member for Springvale. I have cautioned him a Europe of Australia and, if so, what action he is number of times today and, if necessary, I will take taking to address this matter. the appropriate action against him.

Mr CRABB (Minister for Tourism) -I thank the Mr Maclellan interjected. honourable member for her question and her continuing interest in the tourism industry. It was The SPEAKER -Order! Similarly, I request the with some surprise that I read an article in the honourable member for Berwick to remain silent. Ballarat Courier of 8 January this year headed, "Make There is no point of order. Victoria the Europe of Australia: Call on McNamara", which said Victoria should market Mr CRABB (Minister for Tourism) -Our itself as the Europe of Australia. I am always happy tourism industry in the State of Victoria is going to consider any bright ideas because you never through very substantial growth. In 1990, the last know, there might be some shred of sense in this. year for which we have the full figures, there was a We analysed what might have been in the mind of 30 per cent increase in international domestic nights. the Leader of the National Party in putting forward That is a spectacular achievement. There was a this policy proposition -- 2.5 per cent increase in our domestic tourism while the remainder of the country had a 3 per cent An Honourable Member - Before or after decrease. Although Victoria is in the middle of a St Patrick's Day? recession, we are doing extremely well in the tourism industry. That has occurred because we Mr CRABB - He may have had in mind, "Why present ourselves as ourselves; we present Victoria go to St Peter's in Rome when you can go to as Victoria. St Pat's?" or 'Why walk down the Champs Elysees when you can walk down St Kilda Raod?" or ''Why It is pathetic for the Leader of a party that calls itself go to the Tower of London when you can go to the the National Party of Australia to wander around Old Melbourne Gaol?" or 'Why go to Scotland when the State waving a Union Jack and presenting this you can go to the Ringwood highland games?" The place as an English offshoot. Leader of the National Party might have had any of these things in mind. Mr McNamara interjected.

Any way one looks at it as a policy proposition, The SPEAKER - Order! I warn the Leader of the what a pathetic effort to present Victoria as a cheap, National Party and will not warn him again. He is cringing, colonial copy of something else! The facts well aware that he is out of order. I ask him to heed are that this is Australia and Australia is the most the forms of the House and show some respect for desired destination in the world for international them. tourists. This is Melbourne, the world's most livable city. This is Victoria, a place with an urban Mr CRABB - His craven toadying and waving environment second to none, with an outdoor his Union Jack and presenting his English environment second to none and with spectacular colonialism is all the worse for his performance in scenery and spectacular wildlife, not including those drinking Guinness and waving green banners the opposite. The fact is that the tourism industry in other night! Victoria is growing rapidly. PETITIONS

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The fact is that this is Melbourne, this is Victoria, this opposition should stand up for the rights of women is Australia; it is the best place in the world to live! in the community; it should stand up to the gun We are proud of it and that is how we will present lobby and say, "No!" It is clear from the opposition's ourselves to people overseas. response to this issue that it will not be standing up to the gun lobby. VICTORIAN EQUITY TRUST PETITIONS Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I address a further question without notice to the Treasurer. Has The Clerk - I have received the following the Australian Taxation Office given a ruling as to petitions for presentation to Parliament: whether a roll-over of Victorian Equity Trust (VET) units will involve a deemed disposal for capital Companion Animals Bill gains tax purposes, and, if so, what is the effect of the ruling? To the Honourable the Speaker and members of the Legislative Assembly in Parliament assembled: Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - We are having continuing discussions with the Australian Taxation The humble petition of the undersigned sheweth that Office about that matter. the Companion Animals Act currently before the Parliament of Victoria is unacceptable in its present DOMESTIC VIOLENCE form.

Mr SHELL (Geelong) - Will the Minister for The legislation will not solve the problems of straying, Police and Emergency Services inform the House of fouling and excessive and irresponsible breeding of the steps he is taking to further protect women and companion animals. The legislation is unacceptable. children from violence, especially domestic violence? Further consultation with the public and interested Mr SANDON (Minister for Police and groups is required before any legislation is enacted. Emergency Services) - One of the most important priorities of any government must be public safety Your petitioners therefore pray that this House will and security. A priority must be the safety of women defer the legislation pending consultation and review and children. This government is proud of with interested groups. introdUCing a number of initiatives that involve partnerships with local communities and local And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray. councils. Sadly, in Victoria some 39 per cent of homicides are domestic homicides. By Mr Gavin (51 signatures> and Mr Cooper (17 signatures> One of the most crucial things that any government can do is to try to take guns out of the domestic Laid on table. setting. Unfortunately, so far since we made that announcement it has been clear that the opposition STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE is lukewarm about this important legislative change. It appears that Ted Drane is going to have his way, General revision and that we will not have a bipartisan process in respect of taking guns out of the domestic setting. Mr NORRIS (Dandenong) presented final report The current regulation means, of course, that it is up of Standing Orders Committee on a general to the policeman or policewoman to judge whether a revision of the Standing Orders, together with gun should be removed. appendices.

We believe that equivocation or doubt should be Laid on table. removed; in circumstances where domestic violence has taken place and a gun has been produced there Ordered to be printed. should be no doubt whatsoever that that firearm should be removed. It is disappointing to note that Mr RaPER (Minister for Employment, the opposition is going to bend to the gun lobby - Post-Secondary Education and Training) - By that is, the Sporting Shooters Association of leave, I move: Australia (Vic.) - on this issue. Clearly the PAPERS

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That this House takes note of the Standing Orders employ to redress the highest level of Committee report upon a general revision of the unemployment in the State of Victoria since the Standing Orders. great depression, as demonstrated by the latest unemployment statistics issued on 12 March 1992. Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) (By leave) - I understand the Leader of the House has indicated that the Required number of members rose indicating government will be prepared to make Government approval of motion being put. Business time available later in this session for a full debate on this matter, and on that basis leave would Mr KENNETI (Leader of the Opposition) - I be granted. move:

Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, That the House do now adjourn. Post-Secondary Education and Training) (By leave) - In the discussions that were held with the other This is perhaps the most important motion two parties I said there would be a further confronting the State of Victoria at the moment. opportunity to debate the Ministerial statement, There is nothing more important than the which point I made clear yesterday, and we will aspirations and useful employment and meaningful organise business so that a more general debate on occupation of this State's young. the Standing Orders can take place. As we speak today, the government is very much in Motion agreed to. the dock, condemned for creating a festering crisis of competence in Victoria; condemned for PAPERS unprecedented waste and mismanagement of hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money; Laid on table by Clerk: condemned for its ineptitude and bungling and its handling of the collapse of some of our major Grain Elevators Board - Report for the year ended financial institutions; and condemned, time and 30 September 1991 again, by the Auditor-General of this State for its failure to be properly accountable to the Parliament MT A Superannuation Fund - Report for the year and the people of Victoria for its administration and 1990-91 practices.

VICTORIAN GOVERNMENT MAJOR Further, it is condemned for setting new lows in PROJECTS UNIT Ministerial standards and conduct; condemned for creating out of all of this a psychological recession Mr KENNAN (Attorney-General) presented report that has actually cost thousands of jobs - jobs that of Victorian Government Major Projects Unit for were not part of any national recession or 1990-91. international recession - and above all for its absolute betrayal of this generation of young Laid on table. Victorian men and women.

SELECT COMMIITEE ON The young of today are taking a beating, and it is GOVERNMENT APPOINTMENTS true to say that they feel betrayed. They are angry, frustrated and disillusioned. They no longer have Message received from Legislative Council any confidence in the capacity of government to seeking concurrence with resolution. understand their problems. They are even losing confidence in the longstanding and great public Ordered to be considered next day. institutions such as the police, the courts, the Parliament and the education system. This develops UNEMPLOYMENT from a loss of self-esteem and self-confidence.

Mr KENNETf (Leader of the Opposition) - I In Victoria, youth unemployment is an appalling desire to move the adjournment of the House for the social tragedy. The raw data are sobering. More purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent young people between the ages of fifteen and public importance, namely, the urgent need for the nineteen years are seeking work and are government to outline the policies it proposes to unemployed in this State today than in any other UNEMPLOYMENT

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State of Australia. Approximately 46 per cent - The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable almost half - of all young people between the ages member is aware of Standing Orders. of fifteen and nineteen years are out of work, and those are the official figures. The unofficial figures Mr KENNElT - Through you, Mr Speaker, they are obviously higher. will never be forgiven, and even in areas such as Werribee this government and the local member When the Premier took office in August 1990 the have failed to meet the aspirations of the local unemployment rate among young people was community. 19.3 per cent, or approximately 21000. Now, just twenty months later, almost 41 000 young men and Many people in Victoria have never worked and will women have failed in their search for work. The never work. That is the reality we face today. That Premier has more than doubled the rate of youth has not happened before. Victoria has had recessions unemployment from 19.3 per cent to more than and depressions and Australia has had wars, but 46 per cent! eventually most people who have sought employment have gained employment. Victoria now If ever there were a single indicator that would faces a new crisis, a crisis in which many young clearly prove this Premier is incompetent and leads people who have never worked will never work an incompetent government, clearly this statistic is and, as I said, that is part of the Labor government's it. As I said, these are the official figures. The legacy to Victoria. unofficial figures indicate an even higher number of our youth have failed to find work. In many parts of It is therefore little wonder that young Victorians Melbourne, regional and provincial centres, and who have known nothing but a Labor government country areas throughout Victoria, more than 50 per will forever turn their backs on what was once a cent of our young people are unemployed. In the great political party, this party that was born from western suburbs of Melbourne, including the the union movement and the so-called workers, the Premier's electorate, and in Dandenong the blue-collar members of the community. The people acceleration in youth unemployment is appalling. It who claim their roots through work have turned has accelerated since the Premier came to office their backs on that history and tradition. partly because she has spent much of her time chasing publicity, using public money to support Young people between the ages of 15 and 25 years her public relations machine rather than have been part of the learning cycle, and they will administering the State. The Premier has allowed never forgive the Labor Party for what it has done to this decline in confidence, this psychological their opportunities. They will never forget and they depression, to continue at a huge social and will never forgive that once-great political economic cost to the community. organisation. They feel bitterly betrayed by the Labor Party. They have been ignored by the It is a truism that the Labor Party's legacy to this government. On a daily basis they are the recipients generation of young people is unemployment. It is a of PR exercises from the Premier and some of her legacy that I believe will never be forgotten and colleagues. However, none of that has been directed certainly will never be forgiven. towards achieving economic growth, employment, stability and reward. There is no doubt the The legacy of the former Premier, the honourable government will pay the ultimate political price. member for Bundoora, the present Premier, the current Treasurer and all their supporters is gross Ms Kirner - There is not a positive thing in this; misuse of the goodwill that was shown to them at it is all criticism. I can't believe it. successive elections. You will never be forgiven for what you have given the State. The SPEAKER - Order! Interjections are disorderly and I ask honourable members to restrain The SPEAKER - Order! The Chair has never themselves. done anything to the State. The honourable member should address his remarks through the Chair. Mr KENNElT - They are disorderly, and that proves what I was saying yesterday. The Premier Mr KENNETf - Mr Speaker, I am addressing presented a statement to try to bring about the Chair. Parliamentary reform and improve behaviour in Parliament. However, all she does is interject. She never gives up, and that proves that what she was UNEMPLOYMENT

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 133 doing yesterday was the same as she has done since Many long-term unemployed were pushed into a she became the Premier; yesterday was a stunt, and "marginal lifestyle" of drug-taking, alcohol abuse and, the Premier has now confirmed that. Unfortunately, eventually, crime, Professor Polk said. the victims of the Premier's stunts are the youth of this State. If youth unemployment stays high, Professor Polk said there would be an increase in what appears to be It is worth considering the consequences to our senseless violent attacks and violent robberies "because society of this unique period of depression, one of they (unemployed youth) are discOIU\ected and don't which is unemployment particularly among young care... people. It is also worth considering the social costs to families and communities. Recent figures show that during 1989-90, the beginning of the recession, Victoria's juvenile rate of crime against The views of Professor Ken Polk, Associate Professor property rose an alarming 12.5 per cent. of Criminology at the University of Melbourne -- In this important article about the tragedy we are Ms Kimer - Good bloke! facing today Professor Polk goes on to say:

Mr KENNE'IT - The Premier has interjected, There are going to be some people in our society who saying Professor Polk is a good bloke. I want it on never ever work. And that's never happened before. record that the Premier has interjected again, which further proves that she does not want to refonn this Flinders University professor of sociology, Riaz place. Hassan, who carried out a study on suicide trends last year, said there was a strong correlation between Professor Polk is a good bloke according to the unemployment and youth suicides. Premier. Let us hear what Professor Polk says about what is happening to the community in which we I want every honourable member in this House, and live. I shall quote comments made by Professor Polk I also include those who are observing, to note how in an article published on 17 November 1991. Since the government treats this issue. This is the most that time youth unemployment has substantially important issue of our time for our children and for increased, so I can assume only that the observations the people we have been elected to represent. But the "good bloke" Professor Polk made are truer where is the government? There are three today than they were then. I shall read his comments government members present in the Chamber, as into the record because often the words of politicians . well as you, Mr Speaker. I shall name them: the are not given the same credibility as words from Premier, the Treasurer and the honourable member those who are independent and trained in specific for Morwell, who is present because he is concerned. fields. Every other elected representative of the government does not care about our youth. The article states: An Honourable Member - Shame, resign! For Melbourne University criminology associate professor, Professor Ken Polk, the situation is ringing Mr KENNElT - Can you understand our alarm bells. frustration? Can you understand the frustration of the people of Victoria when the government does Professor Polk said the massive youth unemployment not even care about the unemployment that it recession was developing a "deviant youth culture" created and does not care about the future of our similar to US ghettos ... 'We have a Labor government youth? I have not seen a more stark example of an that's at war with youth". irrelevant political party in government.Ms Premier, you ought to hang your head in shame. Those comments are made by a well-respected professor of criminology. He claims the Labor The SPEAKER - Order! The Leader of the government is at war with youth. The article Opposition will address his remarks to the Chair. continues: Mr KENNElT - The Premier should hang her "They are unable to get a job. They are unable to get a head in shame. She should send out her Whip to wage. The individual is, in essence, put in limbo", he bring in other government members, if not to hear said. me then to participate in a debate on this major UNEMPLOYMENT

134 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992 social and economic tragedy that has befallen this We try to help them. We try to encourage them to State under this Premier. A large percentage of our hang in there. However, what a terrible and youth are unemployed, but government members damning indictment this is of a government party are not here to debate the matter. The comments of that was born out of the desire of working men and Professor Polk that I have just read into the record - women to improve their lot! Is it any wonder our young people get angry and frustrated when they Mr Micallef - You are stage managing it. read about and see Ministers clambering over each other for the spoils of office - new en suites or new Mr KENNElT - We are stage managing this? luxury offices - while today the young cannot get The opposition is ready for government. It cares jobs and the ones who have them are in fear of about the State. It is your party that has walked out losing them? on the people of Victoria. It is about time they walked back and took their places. Today the Labor Is it any wonder the young become puzzled, when Party walked out on the people of Victoria, the same they see and read of massive payouts of taxpayers' Labor Party that created this awful social and dollars as hush money to Labor's mates scattered economic tragedy. throughout the Public Service? The young see this behaviour as symbolic of government. They see the Like all honourable members I have received snout in the public trough as the norm and they see telephone calls and letters from citizens on many the lurks and perks of government as unfair and topicS, but increasingly these letters are from young unjust. Is it any wonder the government and men and women, or from their parents, who are Parliament are held in contempt by so many? doing little more than pleading for help. The underlying message and sentiment is always the I should like to read into the record one of many same: the system has betrayed me. These people letters I have received from young people. It was believe the priorities of the government are wrong. delivered by a man called Liam O'Grady and he They want to know what can be done about it. Their writes: pleas are increasingly desperate. The government has no idea what to do. Like many other residents of Footscray, I am unemployed. I am sure all honourable members, regardless of the side of the House on which they sit, have received And the majority of those people are just like me in that these messages; but the tragedy is that currently they are quite willing and able to work and work hard. only one side of the House is listening. But what hope have we got and how do we preserve The desperation and anxiety levels of those what hope we may have had to begin with when there unemployed and the anxiety levels of the 80 per cent is no light at the end of the twmel. of those of us who are employed are increasing rapidly. We conduct polling and research on a I have been living in Footscray for the past five years regular basis, as honourable members would know, and in the western suburbs all my life, having been and one of the questions we ask is whether the raised in Werribee. community believes this State is heading in the right direction and increasingly the unprompted response I have always thought of the west being home of the from the community is that the State is heading in worker but that and a lot of other thoughts quickly the wrong direction. More than 70 per cent of people disappeared. Like the thought I had that being full-time believe Victoria is heading in the wrong direction. employed was just that.

This is a new anxiety level, the like of which we have Three years for the one company here in the west, over never heard of before -- one third of my working life, three years in which I didn't drag the chain. I started out as a storeman and Ms Kimer interjected. by the time of my retrenchment I was supervising at times three production lines with up to 30 people. Then Mr KENNElT - Keep interjecting, Madam full time became unemployed. Premier; you will make a fool of yourself. These people have genuine concerns and they suggest I thought a bloke like me who is young, fit, keen, bright disillusionment with the government of the day. and alert would have no trouble finding work. I have good references and besides I'm not like those dole UNEMPLOYMENT

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bludgers - what dole bludgers? When I go to apply It is not only the young who are bearing the brunt of for Job Search allowance at the local social security this recession in Victoria because unemployment is office, I find myself being one of hundreds of people at its highest rate since the great depression. who visit this office each day, not dole bludgers but Seasonally adjusted, the unemployment rate was people who are embarrassed at being on the dole when 11.1 per cent in February, which is significantly they are young, fit and keen to work. People not after a above the Australian average of 10.5 per cent. This handout, more like people willing to do a hard day's should be put into perspective because although this work for a decent wage. Well, I wasn't going to let this motion is about youth unemployment, their loss of alter any thoughts I had of finding work. opportunity is having a huge effect on the rest of the State. After being unemployed for nearly twelve months, towards the end of last year I found temporary work When Ms Kimer became Premier in August 1990 the teaching unemployed people a skill. Not all these seasonally adjusted unemployment rate was 6.6 per people were without skills. Some were second or cent; there were 147100 people out of work. Today third-year apprentices, others had successfully there are 244 500 out of work. In twenty months the completed their HSCs. They were only doing the figure has gone from 147100 to 244 500. Original course because they had been on the dole for more than data also reveals that 120500 jobs have been lost twelve months and had to so as they could continue since Ms Kirner became Premier. It is not only that receiving benefits plus they didn't have much else to do the unemployment rate is going up among those anyway. who are available for work but also that jobs have been lost. Importantly, the unemployment rate After seeing this, when my course finished so did all among women has jumped from 6.9 per cent when serious thought of finding full-time work in the Ms Kirner came to office to just over 12 per cent foreseeable future. But I have not stopped looking for today. In that time 47 100 women have lost their jobs. work but I have thought we would one day turn the corner and things would start looking up and I, like The tragedy of these figures is that as well as every other unemployed person, want to be first on line meaning the loss of career opportunities they reflect when they start advertising situations vacant in the the plight of many women who have to work for west. Even though the road has been long and the economic reasons. Unfortunately many thousands of corner no closer nowadays the major thought I have is jobs will be lost by women in the next two years the thought of the western suburbs of Melbourne, the because of the policies of the Kirner government and industrial capital of Victoria if not Australia, suffering the Labor government at the Federal level. high unemployment with so many willing and able workers around. Victoria is the heart of the textile, clothing and footwear industry, which employs 45 800 people, The thought worries me because if the west is 66 per cent of whom are women; and of that 66 per unemployed, how can the rest of Australia be working. cent more than 50 per cent are from non-English It's obvious to me that when we finally turn the corner, speaking backgrounds. all attention should be focused towards the west in an attempt at kick-starting the industrial heart of Australia On 1 March this year, only two weeks ago, the first as quickly as possible so as people everywhere will phase of a two-phase campaign by Senator Button to have the opportunity to work for wages and hopefully remove quotas was put in place. It will be completed then the western suburbs can once again be proudly in March next year. It is not the reduction in tariffs called the home of the worker. or micro reforms that will drive these women out of jobs but the total removal of quotas well in advance What a telling letter from an articulate young man, of the original Button program, which has been who seems to me to be in his early twenties, who is brought forward. We stand to lose another 30 000 desperately concerned and expressing in a rational employees in the textile, clothing and footwear way his own frustration and his aspirations for the industries. Between now and two years hence most future! Obviously he has not lost hope. He keeps on of the job losses will be by women from non-English bouncing back like a rubber ball but his plight is speaking backgrounds, most of whom will never now suffered by 41 000 young people of his age again get jobs. That compounds the problem and throughout this State who are terribly concerned impacts on opportunities for our young. that something be done to turn the situation arowld. Mr Micallef - Ask Hewson. UNEMPLOYMENT

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Mr KENNETf - By the time Dr Hewson is Earlier I mentioned anxiety levels; they are higher elected to government the Labor Party in Canberra than ever and are a clear indication that more than will have destroyed the manufacturing base of our two out of three Victorians have no confidence in the State. Let there be no doubt about it: within the next government and oppose the government. People twelve months we will experience a dramatic loss of want the government out and they want a fresh start. job opportunities, particularly for women, and it is all happening under the leadership of the Premier The absolute key to our economic recovery is to and because of her incompetence in failing to do overcome this recessionary lack of confidence. anything constructive about it. Confidence is the key to the future; there is no doubt that the best policies in the world will not succeed if Mr Maclellan -It is happening in Victoria. the community does not have faith and confidence in them. Mr KENNETf - Yes, it is happening in Victoria. The Premier is good when it comes to changing the Mr Micallef - Give them a chance. Prime Ministerial occupant - and I give her credit for that. In the six months you were undermining Mr KENNETI - You have had ten years and all the then Prime Minister, Bob Hawke, it would have you have continually done is -- been more appropriate if you had brought a change in your Federal colleagues' policy in Canberra to The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable protect the jobs of migrant women in this State. You member for Springvale has already been warned wereso-- today. I do not wish to take action against him but I am prepared to do so if he continues to interject. The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable member should address the Chair. Mr KENNETI - In the past two days the Premier has said she will draw me out and force me Mr KENNETI - The Premier and the Treasurer to deliver all my policies. Already we have issued a were so concerned about bringing about a change in number - and you have already accepted them in the Prime Ministership that the Premier was the education area. I say to the Premier: I am prepared to allow the community to bum! prepared to deliver all my policies tomorrow on behalf of the coalition if she calls an election today. In her period as Premier, the number of job vacancies has crashed by more than half; under her Honourable Members - Hear, hear! administration the number has fallen from 10 500 when the Premier took over, to only 5200, according Mr KENNETI - We are prepared to give you to the latest data - a decline of 50.5 per cent! The everything because now it is clear that with an number of people forced to accept unemployment election and new policies, and a new team of benefits in Victoria has more than doubled under the experienced managers who can manage this State Kirner regime, from 80130 in August 1990 to 210 864 well - compared to your members who have never last February - an increase of 142 per cent. The only invested $1 of their own in a business - we can start other thing increasing at that speed in this State is the rebuilding process. the level of our debt -another clear indicator of the failure of this government. If the Premier and her government wish to hear the remainder of our policies they can have them The SPEAKER - Order! Before the Leader of the tomorrow if she calls an election today. Call an Opposition proceeds further, I must advise him that election today! It is now clear that the Premier and inadvertently the clock was not started. It is my the Treasurer are perhaps the only two people in assessment that he has approximately 5 minutes Victoria who are putting the interests of our youth remaining. after their own interests. They are worried only about their own jobs and the jobs of their colleagues. Mr KENNETI - Ten, I think. They are not interested in the record number of unemployed, yet the unemployed can be given hope All the rhetoric and so-called job statements from the tomorrow if the Premier is prepared to put the Premier and the Treasurer do nothing for the interests of the State first. unemployed in Victoria. Victorians have totally lost confidence in the government's capacity to deliver I have said it before and I repeat it: the Premier has any program or any promise. indicated she will extend her term for as long as UNEMPLOYMENT

Thursday. 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 137 possible, potentially to Boxing Day this year. There Little wonder that the armchair chairperson of his can be no more singularly selfish an act by any youth policy committee has said the opposition does individual than that of a Premier in making such a not have one idea. The honourable member for claim. There is nothing more incompetent than a Ballarat North, Mr Elder, is quoted in the Bendigo government that puts self-interest above the Advertiser as having said: interests of the State. ... it will be hard to get the youth policy past the "blue The government has forgotten it was elected to serve rinse set". the community; it has forgotten that its responsibility is to provide good government. It is He said that all they want to do is send them off to absolutely splintered because of divisions within its do national service! party and within Cabinet. Now the government is making sure that each individual stays in position The Leader of the Opposition goes into the western potentially until Boxing Day this year. suburbs of Melbourne and says he has a policy. Perhaps he has a policy but it is a secret! He says, Every member of the public should hound the ''When we have an election we will all know about Premier and the Treasurer wherever they appear in it". In the western suburbs newspapers -- public because every day that the Premier continues to put her own interests ahead of the interests of the Mr Honeywood interjected. State and our unemployed she does Victoria a great disservice. More people will become unemployed Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - Only two weeks ago he and there will be fewer jobs. Wherever the Premier said he had a secret policy. Today the House gave and the Treasurer go the people of Victoria should him the opportunity of bringing forward his policy, clearly tell them, "Get out, you have failed, you are but his contribution was content-free - not one selfish and incompetent and the Victorian policy commitment, not one target! It contained community deserves better". They should tell her, absolutely zilch! It is little wonder he is going ''You have done nothing for twenty months but around the western suburbs saying he has a bright enlarge the black hole in Victoria with more idea but he does not know what it is. He is too unemployed, higher debt, less confidence and an scared to tell anyone. increasing number of bankruptcies". The opposition is pontificating and using the The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Parliament for ideas. The government gives the member must address the Chair. opposition the opportunity but the opposition comes up with a big zero. What a disgrace! The opposition Mr KENNE'IT - The ''bankruptcies'' displayed has claimed the time of this House yet does not on that side of the House when this motion was first present one policy commitment. debated are a clear indication that the government is simply no longer fit to govern. Victorians must now Honourable members interjecting. look forward to an election at the earliest possible opportunity so as to start the rebuilding process. The SPEAKER - Order! I advise the honourable members for Glen Waverley, Mildura and Portland Honourable Members - Hear, hear! that they should remain silent. If they are unable to remain silent I shall take the appropriate action. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - That was one of the most disgraceful performances we have ever The Leader of the Opposition had the protection of witnessed in this House. The Leader of the the Chair and the Treasurer is entitled to the same. Opposition having been given the opportunity of talking about unemployment and putting forward Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - Why is it that the Leader policies, all we heard was a content-free speech - of the Opposition, after ten years in opposition and not one policy commitment! His speech was after travelling around the country demanding an absolutely content-free. The Leader of the election and demanding the time of the House, Opposition spoke for 30 minutes, with a lO-minute which was granted, cannot produce one idea? How extension, but was unable to produce one idea! Here long has the opposition been working on the are thirteen pages but not one idea! statement? Is this its policy statement on unemployment? Is this the economic blueprint? If it UNEMPLOYMENT

138 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992 is, it is content-free; not one policy commitment is in When addressing a western suburbs employment it. committee comprising business and community representatives, the Leader of the OppOSition said: Whenever there is a press report concerning the Leader of the Opposition or the honourable member The occupation and training idea could be a very major for Bennettswood or the opposition's policy breakthrough, but I don't want to be too specific commitments, one reads of the difficulties the because I don't want to build false hopes if it does not opposition has in getting any of its policies up. eventuate. When he was in Geelong Mr Pescott promised -- The article goes on to say: The SPEAKER - Order! 1 remind the Treasurer that he should refer to members opposite by their Mr Kennett said the scheme could operate throughout correct titles. the State covering all occupations and would involve a mixture of funding, but not necessarily any from the Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - Yes, Mr Speaker. The Federal government. opposition spokesman on manufacturing and industry policy is reported in the Geelong press on '1t will capture the imagination of trade unions and 29 January 1992 as saying once again that the employers and I could not imagine anyone being opposition has a promise of coalition policy but that opposed to it." the policy is still to be revealed. What an opportunity the Leader of the OppOSition Mr COOPER (Morning ton) - On a point of had today to spell out the policies. A month later he order, Mr Speaker, 1 direct your attention to still cannot do so. It is a disgrace that the opposition Standing Order No. 26(c), which deals with the time and the Leader of the Opposition come into this limits on speakers in adjournment motions. It states: place with not one policy commitment. Little wonder that the Leader of the Opposition has been In speaking to such motion debate shall be strictly written off by such people as David Edwards, confined to the subject-matter stated, the mover shall Executive Director of the Victorian Employers not exceed 30 minutes, any other member shall not Chamber of Commerce and Industry, who said, exceed 15 minutes, and the whole discussion on the firstly, that the opposition was not big on solutions subject shall not exceed 2 hours. and, secondly, that it is fully enjoying the plight of the unemployed. When 1 rose on the point of order the Treasurer had 17 minutes left on the clock. It would appear the OppOSition members have not one idea. The clock has been set incorrectly and should be opposition is part of the problem in Victoria. At a adjusted. The Treasurer has only a maximum of 15 time when we should be debating policies minutes in which to speak. vigorously the opposition has made not one contribution. The SPEAKER - Order! I advised the opposition informally of the circumstances which had arisen. It Mr KENNEIT (Leader of the Opposition) - On was only realised at about 30 minutes after the a point of order, Mr Speaker, the Treasurer has Leader of the Opposition had commenced speaking alleged that the opposition and I enjoy the plight of that the clock had not been set. 1 advised the House the unemployed. That is not the case and has never that the honourable member would be allowed a been the case. 1 am offended by the remark. It is further 5 minutes. offensive and I ask the Treasurer to withdraw it.

In view of that extension of time being granted to the Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) -I withdraw the Leader of the Opposition the clock has similarly remark. It is important that political parties be been extended by 5 minutes for the Treasurer. There prepared to put forward arguments and policies is no point of order. about the future, and it is absolutely critical to the future of Victoria that we are prepared to do so. Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) -It is important to remember that during these difficult times the It is futile and destructive to argue that these are government and the opposition should be prepared parochial problems. The entire Western economies to have their policies examined. The Leader of the are in a state of deep recession. That is a Opposition is unable to spell out his policy position. fundamental fact of life. In the United Kingdom the UNEMPLOYMENT

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Treasurer introduced a Budget which, he said, had the Opposition invested his money: his business been the most difficult to frame since the depression partners described it as ''hair raising". They said the of the thirties. The United Kingdom has doubled its man knew nothing about business; they said he net financing transactions. In the United States of blew in and blew out and that it was ''hair raising". America its very successful president is under great political pressure because of the economy. In Japan Imagine the Leader of the Opposition running this the Nikkei index has fallen below the 20 000 mark State! The people of Victoria would not have a and there is great concern about the financial night's sleep. He would blow in and he would blow stability of the Japanese economy. out and drop a few ideas - and have a few secret ones that he would not tell anyone about. What a All Western economies are in deep recession. We are performance it would be! hardly responsible for the decline in the Nikkei index. If one examines the Victorian economy in its The record of the Victorian government is clear. It is national and international context, it is clear we have interesting that the Leader of the Opposition is now suffered from precisely the same forces that have leaving the Chamber. had an impact on the entire Western World. Honourable members interjecting. Two forces have had an impact on the economies of the Western World: firstly, excessively tight The SPEAKER - Order! The House will come to monetary policies manifested in Australia by a high order. The Treasurer has the call. interest rate regime that is shared across the world; and secondly, the forces of structural adjustment Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - The Victorian government that have been unleashed on the Victorian and sought a change in economic policies from the interna tional economies. Federal government, and it secured that change. The government asked the Federal government to Despite all the difficulties those two forces have develop a policy base that would address two unleashed upon the Victorian economy, it is not issues: the first was the immediate need to address helpful to pretend that Victoria is isolated in its unemployment; the second was that the Federal difficulties or that the solutions are easy. Victoria government's responses to the economic situation and Australia will emerge from the recession into a and to unemployment should protect and maintain very different economy from that which we came growth in the tradeable goods sector. through over the past 50 or 60 years - a very different economy. The government proposed an integration of economic policy objectives and the Federal Australia and Victoria will move into a different government accepted that argument. Furthermore, if economy in the 19905. In order to provide solutions the Federal government agreed to go down the path to the problems facing us today it is important to of integrating those objectives the government have a proper assessment of the causes. Unless we suggested it should do so in a number of specific understand where we have come from we will have areas. no idea of where we are going. It is fundamental that we understand the causes of the Victorian and The first was that there should be a fiscal boost of Australian recession. If we do so we will have the between $2 billion and $3 billion to the economy, a opportunity of shaping policies for the future. proposal that was accepted by the Federal government. The government proposed measures Now is the time for political parties to put their such as investment allowances and accelerated policies forward. The record of the Victorian depreciation provisions to boost private sector government is quite clear: for more than twelve confidence and investment. Again that was accepted months it has sought a change in Federal by the Federal government. government policy. At the same time the opposition has been absolutely silent on employment, The government suggested specific employment unemployment and the direction to be taken. initiatives for the rural sector, youth training and employment programs, conservation and Mr Kennett interjected. environment training, and employment programs for the long-term unemployed, which were all Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - Absolute silence. accepted by the Federal government. Honourable members know how well the Leader of UNEMPLOYMENT

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Finally, the government suggested the Federal his opportunity to put it on the record. There is government should consider specific intervention in nothing. It is not there. further education and training. Honourable members will be aware of the Federal government's I have already referred to the opinion of business in recent historic commitment to TAPE funding. Again this State. The Victorian Employers Chamber of the government was successful in seeking and Commerce and Industry said: obtaining a change in Federal economic policy. The coalition is not big on solutions. It would like the It is interesting to note the analysis of that change. State to disintegrate further in order to force an election The National Institute of Economic and Industry as soon as possible. Research argues that the 800 000 job commitment of the Prime Minister will result in Victoria's obtaining That is what the business community thinks of the job growth of between 75 000 and 85 000 jobs in the opposition! period ending June 1993. That outcome is consistent with the government's target of 80 000 jobs for The DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Norris) - Order! Victorians over that period. This is contrary to the The Minister's time has expired. content-free document put forward by the opposition. The government has set a target of job Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - Mr Deputy Speaker, growth and has spelt out a way of obtaining it. the Minister's time has expired in more ways than one! I remind the House that for some years the Furthermore, by this time next week the Premier Treasurer has been a Minister of the government, the will have given her response to the Prime Minister's same government that for ten years has presided statement, a response that will detail the over policies that have seen the unemployment rate implementation of the program in Victoria and in this State grow by a massive amount. The explain where the job growth will be. The government has seen the lives of decent Victorians government has sought and obtained a change in destroyed. It has seen companies go to the wall. The Federal government policy and will be making its lives and aspirations of many Victorians have been own contribution. ruined, yet the Treasurer dares to come into this House and make these comments. I invite members of the public and members of the opposition to compare our submission to the Federal I point out to the Treasurer and to the government government and the Premier's response with the that his lack of attention to providing policies will opposition's thirteen pages of absolute drivel, which not be lost sight of after today. The coalition has a are absolutely content free. After ten years in clear commitment both here in Victoria and at the opposition you produce this bit of confetti. You are Federal level to turning the tide of socialism in this hopeless! country and providing jobs.

Honourable members interjecting. Mr A. J. Sheehan interjected.

Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - During these difficult Mr GUDE - Well may the Treasurer laugh! He times it is important that the government and the does not have any worthwhile policies! His policies opposition spell out their policy positions on have produced the results that we have now both at unemployment and sustainable growth in the the Federal and State levels. It was the Federal tradeable goods sector. The opposition has been government's John Button plan that drove a given the opportunity of spelling out its policies and Victorian car company right out of existence. stands condemned. Part of the coalition's Fightback package is the The honourable member for Ballarat North, the abolition of payroll tax. I invite any member of the chairman of the opposition's policy committee, is on government to name just one policy of either the the record as having said they have no policies; and State or Federal government that will do anything on 29 January the honourable member for nearly as much as that single proposed policy Bennettswood said they have no policies. It is all a change. The abolition of payroll tax will have a secret. Only three weeks ago in the western suburbs massive effect on unemployment through the the Leader of the Opposition said he had a secret creation of job opportunities in this State. plan. Today he had the opportunity of telling the House and the public what he has in mind. This was UNEMPLOYMENT

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I move to another policy area. I well recall the I invite honourable members to consider why we circumstances under which the coalition needed to have the current level of unemployment and the develop this policy. I invite honourable members to dissatisfaction, concern and worry expressed by think back to the Nunawading Province how-to-vote Victorians, as correctly referred to by the Leader of card seam, which resulted in a re-run, a re-election. the Opposition. The answer is: because of the The situation was that the government had tragedies of the Victorian Economic Development temporary control of both Houses of this Parliament. Corporation and the loss of State Bank Victoria - What did the government do at that time? The which Victorians should still own - as well as the answer is that, among other things, it introduced the Victorian Investment Corporation. The Treasurer so-called WorkCare legislation! Honourable will not answer questions in this House on these members should consider just what that legislation tragedies. Over the past two days he has mumbled has done, apart from creating an enonnous cost for his way through his answers. Yesterday he spent Victorian businesses. about 16 minutes answering a question and making an absolute mockery of this place. I remind the House that WorkCare premiums are payments directly related to the wages paid by I invite honourable members to consider what has employers in this State, unlike payroll tax, which has happened to Tricontinental Corporation Lld and a threshold level so that companies that employ other firms in the raft of other disasters that can be fewer than ten people do not pay that tax. However, pointed to as reflecting the deficiencies of this with WorkCare, because of the deeming government and contributing to the tragedies arrangements in the legislation rammed through by evident in Victoria at present. the government when it had temporary control of both Houses, every single employee must be paid I refer to another policy announced by the coalition for. since 1987, the debt reduction strategy, which was introduced by the honourable member for Brighton If one compares the situation in New South Wales who at least understands the numbers. with that in Victoria, one finds that the cost of workers compensation in this State is roughly twice Mr A. J. Sheehan interjected. the cost in New South Wales. In New South Wales the cost of the workers compensation scheme Mr GUDE -It is very difficult to understand represents on average 1.8 per cent of payroll them because it is difficult to discover the truth from whereas in Victoria WorkCare represents on average the public accounts. It is difficult to find out exactly 3 per cent of payroll. Here is an undeniable what is going on because of the secret way the difference. government operates and because the government has denied members of this Parliament the proper The proposed change in the policy as announced by use of the freedom of information process. the coalition, not one or two months ago but almost two years ago, has been costed and fully detailed The coalition has announced a comprehensive debt and made available to the public. The result will be a reduction strategy. The first main element of it is one-third reduction in the cost of WorkCare restraint on capital outlays, which will be based on premiwns throughout the State. Mr Acting Speaker, real community need criteria. It will not be based on do you believe that will have an impact on what our mates want; the snout-in-the-trough employment? I do. The Treasurer suggested the approach will not continue. There will be none of coalition has no policy. It does have policies and that! supports changes that will introduce decency and integrity to the workers compensation process. The next main element is better value for capital through contracting out construction, maintenance I refer to another policy area the Treasurer does not and other work. The coalition will be looking to want to talk about - that is, the public management contract out work to those who can do things strategy of the coalition. This is a new approach to efficiently. They will be given the opportunity of government that focuses on core service delivery doing the work because they will do it in such a way responsibilities, which is something the Treasurer as to reduce the cost to the people of this State. The and his colleagues would not understand. Even if benefits will be reflected in an eventual lowering of they understood the matter, everybody knows they taxes and charges. That element will have an impact would not have the capacity to implement such a on employment. These are the tough decisions that policy. UNEMPLOYMENT

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the Treasurer should be making, but he does not having them fully driven by private enterprise in an have the guts or integrity to do so! efficient manner that generates benefits for the people of Victoria. Those benefits will be evident in The coalition will establish a central debt the efficiency and cost outcome and direct benefits management agency. to individual Victorians through of the reduction in government costs that will improve the outlook for Mr A. J. Sheehan interjected. individuals.

Mr GUDE - Your version of it! We are not A coalition government will introduce privatisation opposing the process. We put this out in 1987; you to create competition where Labor maintains its are just getting to it now! Wakey-wakey! monopoly. I invite honourable members to reflect on public transport in this State. For example, it is well The next element of the coalition debt reduction known that the government-run bus fleet could be strategy is the use of privatisation and asset sales transferred to private ownership and operated at proceeds to actually repay debt. Those proceeds will half its current cost. A result of that would be the not be put into recurrent expenditure and poured possibility of a reduction in taxes and charges, apart down the black hole, where Labor has poured so from controlling the cost of fares. Currently, even if much, consequently generating the worst economic there were a job to go to, most people could not situation this State and this nation have ever faced. afford to pay to get there!

A coalition government will encourage the People do not want to be passengers on a train that investment of private sector capital in the delivery of will be stuck in the underground rail loop, as they public infrastructure. We have a natural rapport were yesterday. That system is overseen by a with the people who want to do the things that are Minister who did not have the stomach to appear necessary for the people of this State. The tunnel that before the Select Committee on Government will run under the Domain to link vital road systems Appointments and defend himself. Here we have a is a classic example. If the government had been government that today was not prepared to stand serious, that work would have been done by the behind the Minister for Transport when the private sector. I am not talking about two or three opportunity was presented for him to clear his jobs; I am talking about 2000-plus jobs. name! Gutless is the word to describe that behaviour!

The coalition is not talking about fiddling at the The coalition has released its industrial relations edges. When there is a change of government, policy, which may also come as a surprise to the people in the private sector will have the confidence Treasurer. It will provide an opportunity for direct needed to invest in public infrastructure. That is negotiation between an employer and an employee. what is missing - confidence. The people of Members of the government do not like that, of Victoria know that those on the other side of the course, because they are being dictated to by their House have destroyed the fabric of Victoria not only mates in Lygon Street; they are run by the unions, by in the economic sense, which has resulted in the the Halfpennys, Currans and Ryans of this world. current high level of bankruptcies in this State, but They have said that such a thing cannot happen - also in their moral approach, which is demonstrated because if it does they will lose their control and in the way they have conducted themselves in power! running this State. The coalition is concerned to return power to the Another element of the coalition's debt reduction hands of the individual worker by giving him or her program is a low-risk strategy, with no foreign the opportunity of negotiating his or her working exchange risks where there is no foreign currency. conditions as they are relevant to the sector in which he or she is working. The opposition is talking about A coalition government will have an approach of giving workers the capacity to work on weekends. genuine corporatisation to drive efficiency gains for government business enterprises and central Mr A. J. Sheehan - Twenty-four hours a day! government agencies. It will not be mucking around at the edges: no 40 per cent deals on Loy Yang B will Mr GUDE -If that is the extent of the be undertaken; there will be no shared opportunities Treasurer's knowledge, understanding and on the overburden at Loy Yang. The coalition is comprehension of the issue, he is a bigger fool than talking about running these entities properly and even I thought him. UNEMPLOYMENT

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There will be major changes in those areas. We will comprehensively thrown out, and the opposition not stand by idly and allow those members of the benches will probably be as full with Labor union movement to decimate sections of industry in members as the government benches were occupied this State. One need look no further than what by the three people who sat there earlier today. Mr Curran has done in the meat industry, which is an absolute disgrace. He has been closely associated Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, with the Premier and involved in the Premier's Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I do not campaign committee. He vetoed reports that were think we have had a debate on a more important prepared and submitted by the government to the subject; but when we are debating an important Federal Industrial Relations Commission dealing subject such as the issue of employment, one would with matters in that area, and we have seen a expect the opposition to contribute some content reduction of not one or two jobs but of thousands of and some suggestions to the debate. jobs in the meat industry. However, the speech of the Leader of the OppOSition I notice that the odd government member or two are is one of those rare speeches - not for the Leader of wandering in and out of the Chamber. I find it the OppOSition to give, but for honourable members worrying that earlier during the debate a message to hear - which is content-free. was sent upstairs to the television people to stop them filming the empty benches on the government In thirteen or so pages, the Leader of the Opposition side. Three government members were present at has managed to avoid making any definite proposal that stage, and of course the government did not about how the issues of the economy and want to be embarrassed so it sent the message unemployment can be dealt with in Victoria. upstairs and had the filming stopped. Let it be on the public record that there were only three That is hardly surprising when one thinks of what government members here and they were here for people such as the Executive Director of the most of the time, and even now only a handful of Victorian Chambers of Commerce and Industry, them are present. 1hat is the extent of the concern David Edwards, have said about the opposition. these people have for the unemployment they These people have made it clear in their public created and generated. comments that the opposition will not have a good story spoilt by actually putting any detail into it. What about the education system? 1hat matter is too embarrassing for the government so it tries to run The Australian of 13 February reports David away. Concern about the education system has been Edwards as saying in an interview: expressed by individuals and by employers who are constantly complaining about the standard of The coalition is not hig on solutions. It would like the education in the State and the capacity of the final State to disintegrate further in order to force an election product - the education skills of the individual are as soon as possible. such that they are incapable of carrying out job tasks once they are available to be employed. That comment by David Edwards has also been made by many other people, because the opposition We hear it from parents, but no more graphic has no proposal to put additional people into example has been expressed than that of the plight employment. of the young man from Footscray whose letter was read into the record by the Leader of the OppOSition Indeed, when one searches the entire thirteen pages this morning. of the speech of the Leader of the Opposition to find an idea that may create employment, one sees there If ever a person wanted to see what the present State is not a single idea in the whole document. The of Victoria is really about, I invite him or her to read opposition has the responsibility to come forward that letter in Hansard because it typifies the concern with proposals that will contribute to employment, and despair that the people of Victoria feel. but the Leader of the Opposition is not into providing those kinds of solutions. I infonn the government that the people of Victoria will vent their spleen on the government when it The House should be aware of the way in which he finally calls an election. It cannot run forever. Time moves around the community discussing the issue is nearly up and the people of Victoria will have of unemployment. In the Western Independent of their say. Government members will be 3 March a big story was headed: UNEMPLOYMENT

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Kennett to hatch job training scheme. In contrast, the government is concerned with developing proposals and industry to ensure That is an interesting concept, I suppose - the additional employment. The Leader of the Leader of the Opposition sitting on his egg and Opposition's speech is a good example of the hoping it eventually produces something - but opposition's policy of simply knocking, and one has when one considers the colleagues he had with him, only to look at opposition member's comments on it is hard to imagine three less happy faces than the major investments and major projects in Victoria to people who are photographed with the Leader of the see that. Opposition as he is hatching his job training scheme. It does not matter whether it is the National Tennis Firstly, you have the Liberal Party heavyweights: Centre, the Great Southern Stand, the World from the left, Roger Peseott, shadow Minister for Congress Centre or the Museum development, the manufacturing, industry and commerce; Vin opposition simply knocks it and attempts to delay it. Heffeman, shadow Minister for Small Business - one might add that neither of those honourable In contrast, the government is about increasing members is or has been present for this debate­ investment in Victoria. I shall give a number of and, finally, Mr Gude -- examples. A good example has been the work of the action teams in the Department of Manufacturing Mr COOPER (Morning ton) - On a point of and Industry Development which have been order, Mr Deputy Speaker, I direct your attention to involved directly with industry to ensure there is the statement the Minister has just made, which is additional employment and investment. They have incorrect. Both Mr Peseott and Mr Heffernan have not simply been ringing up firms, but have been out been present -- working with firms like Toyota and other major and minor firms to ensure additional employment The DEPUTY SPEAKER - Order! There is no opportunities are created. point of order; the Minister will resume his speech. Another example is the work in the food and Mr ROPER (Minister for Employment, agriculture area commenced in the Department of Post-Secondary Education and Training) - I Manufacturing and Industry Development and welcome the honourable member for Bennettswood, continued by officers in the Department of Food and who has now returned to the Chamber. The point I Agriculture. am making is that it would be difficult to imagine three less happy individuals watching their Leader Mr Honeywood interjected. ha tch his job training seheme. Mr ROPER - The honourable member for There are other commentaries on that visit to the Warrandyte asks 'Whose idea was it?" The western suburbs. The Western Gazette states: government is aware of the great statement about turning the rivers back into central Australia so that Kennett coy on job youth plan. it can become the food bowl of the world! These things do not occur by simply making a statement. The Community News states: Work was going on for more than a year before that statement was made. Work was being done by the Kennett's secret weapon against employment. Department of Manufacturing and Industry Development, the Department of Food and Honourable members should be aware of what the Agriculture, the Committee for Melbourne and Leader of the Opposition had to say on that occasion: major firms involved in food processing in Victoria in examining the possibilities and the impediments I do not want to be too specific because I do not want to to investment and additional employment in that build false hopes if it does not eventuate. area. It is not just a matter of making a statement about becoming the food bowl of the world, but What we have is this secret plan which the Leader of doing the hard work of identifying opportunities for the Opposition says he is hatching, but which he is additional investment and employment in Victoria. not prepared to share with anyone at all because, as he says, it may well not work. There have been already, as was mentioned in the House yesterday, a number of positive results of that work that has been done jointly by the government UNEMPLOYMENT

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 145 and the Committee for Melbourne. There are many the private sector in Victoria to examine the other areas where the government has not sat on its long-term requirements of Victoria, not the kind of hands but has been involved in development. Look knocking that David Edwards rightly commented at what has been occurring in the training area over on when speaking about the Leader of the the past few years. There has been a very Significant Opposition and his colleagues. expansion, both through the Victoria First package and in cooperation with the Commonwealth The Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party made much government, of training positions throughout the play of the so-called Fightback package. State. That is very important. The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr Evans) - Order! The government has developed, with the State There is too much audible conversation. I ask Training Board and technical and further education honourable members to desist so that the Minister colleges, a TAFE system which anyone would be may properly deliver his address. proud of and which is well placed to take advantage of the increased training opportunities announced at Mr RaPER - As I was saying, the Deputy Christmas time by the Commonwealth government Leader of the Liberal Party raised the so-called and the further advances that were announced in the Fightback package and said what a great initiative it One Nation package. was to remove payroll tax. Everyone in this place believes it would be useful to address the payroll tax Another example of not sitting and waiting or issue. The honourable member for Hawthorn and issuing content-free speeches but carrying out the the Federal Leader of the Opposition propose to work has been the input Victoria made to the One remove payroll taxes by substituting a goods and Nation statement which, in conjunction with the services tax (GST), which would have an enormous private sector in Victoria, announced a number of effect on small and medium-sized businesses initiatives, particularly in the infrastructure and throughout Victoria. The honourable member for taxation areas, where the base is set for both Hawthorn either does not understand or will not say expansion and employment, as well as an improved publicly that the particular proposal he has now transport infrastructure for Victoria's future. endorsed will significantly harm the private sector Substantial capital expenditure has already occurred in Victoria. in that area. Honourable members interjecting. Mr Honeywood interjected. The ACTING SPEAKER - Order! The Mr RaPER - The honourable member for honourable member for Malvern is deliberately Warrandyte says, 'Will it be paid for?" If the defying the order I gave a few moments ago and I honourable member read the One Nation statement ask him to obey the directions of the Chair. it would be clear to him that the Commonwealth, the State and the private sector are jointly involved Mr RaPER - The point I was making, one in developing Melbourne as a transport hub. That is which the honourable member for Malvern extremely important. Even the Leader of the Federal obviously does not understand, is that a large Opposition has finally agreed that that is a sensible number of employers in Victoria who are currently proposition, and in the unlikely event he will ever be exempt from payroll tax would have to pay the GST Prime Minister he has indicated he will continue and administer it on behalf of a Federal Liberal with that sort of investment. government. That is a Significant attack on employment in Victoria. Again, that has not come out of thin air or some bright idea of the Leader of the Opposition. It has I also point out, as was pointed out in the Supreme resulted from a great deal of work by central Court, that the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party is agencies: the Ministry of Transport and the more concerned about gutter politics than policy. Department of Manufacturing and Industry That is the key to today'S debate: the opposition is Development, in cooperation with both the all about making comments and not about Commonwealth government and the Committee for suggesting solutions to the problems being faced by Melbourne. the Victorian economy faces and economies elsewhere. The opposition does not like the fact that there is very close cooperation between the government and UNEMPLOYMENT

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It is not good enough for the Leader of the point has been reinforced by organisations such as Opposition to read a 13-page, content-free statement. the Victorian Chamber of Manufactures whose chief He must outline his policies and present them. He executive, Mr Phillip Holt, recently warned of the cannot hide behind the fact that he does not want to problems of not gearing up and the government not produce his policies. encouraging industry to take on apprentices.

Mr Kennett interjected. The government must also address what is happening with unemployed youth. Many are Mr ROPER -It is always tomorrow. The Leader becoming disillusioned and are moving into a drug of the Opposition will not tell the people of Victoria culture. In many cases they then move into a crime what he intends to do. His colleagues will not culture. That is causing huge problems in SOCiety in attempt to provide decent policies and that is the the policing, corrections and community services problem the opposition must face. If it has to do that areas. The government must respond genuinely to through the medium of a new Leader, so be it, but answer those concerns. the opposition must provide decent policies which can be evaluated and put against the hard work that I shall inform the government of some of the effects is currently being done by the government. of the growth in unemployment in country areas. All honourable members hoped that Victoria had turned Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National the corner and were devastated when they heard the Party) - Parliament has not had a response from figures for the number of people receiving government members on the motion moved by the unemployment benefits. As everyone knows, those Leader of the Opposition, which was a call to the figures understate the real pOSition because many government to outline policies that would help to spouses who want to work but cannot find work are address the huge unemployment problem. All not eligible to receive unemployment benefits. Parliament has heard is rhetoric and a call for details of Opposition policies, which will be announced There is another definitional problem with the immediately if the government announces the date unemployment statistics involving people who are of an election. only partially employed. A recent study in the Ballarat area showed that approximately 50 per cent Parliament must deal with the important issue: the of young people wanted to work but could not get continual downward trend in the level of jobs. However, a number of those listed as being employment in this State. Victorians hoped they employed during the several weeks of the survey were turning the corner, just like the famous J curve had as little as 1 hour of work. The definition should that the Prime Minister has spoken so much about, include only people who are fully employed. but is now more an inverted J, as the honourable member for Syndal points out. The figures show that from January to February this year the number of people receiving unemployment Of real concern is the effect unemployment is having benefits in country Victoria increased by 4.2 per cent on society. A generation is being lost. Because from 50 612 to 52 776. Some of the worst hit areas Victoria is at the bottom of the unemployment over that period include Mildura, which saw an trough it is suffering more than other Sta tes. There is increase of 90.9 per cent; Horsham, which suffered no hope for those who have left school over the past an increase of 6.8 per cent, and Wangaratta, which three or four years. There are no jobs and no tertiary had to face an increase of 6.3 per cent. opportunities for many of them. This year more than 20 000 students could not get tertiary places, and a Over the past fourteen months since December 1990 number have been forced to repeat years 11 and 12 unemployment in country areas has soared by because there are no opportunities in the work force. 86 per cent, an increase of 24 426 people. The worst affected regions include Bendigo, and I am sorry the There has been a massive decrease in the availability honourable member for Bendigo West is not in the of apprenticeships. In 1990, 13 291 new Chamber. I should have thought that he, more than apprenticeships were taken up; last year that figure anyone else, would have been worried about the fell to 6979. At a time when the State needs to gear effects of unemployment in country Victoria. up for the recovery, apprenticeships are dropping. Bendigo suffered an increase of 225 per cent; Swan There will be a huge shortage of people in the skilled Hill saw an increase of 116 per cent and Hamilton trade areas and it will take some three or four years suffered an increase of 101 per cent. to get the numbers up to the required mark. That UNEMPLOYMENT

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Almost all country regions have suffered substantial to Victoria and who are concerned about its future increases in the January to February period this year and where it is going. and since December 1990. The only bright spot was Shepparton, where unemployment decreased by I am amazed that the Minister for Tourism, who is 2 per cent. Some of that results from the increased rwming around the countrySide saying that he is employment during the fruit-picking season. interested in Victoria's future, plans to retire to However, I hope the honourable member for Tuscany. He is going to convert his lump sum to lire Shepparton will continue to see improvements in his at Victoria's expense. He has no commitment to the area because I know he is dedicated to doing future of this State. If he were genuinely looking for something about unemployment. He is showing a an interest after politics he would get into the practical approach to problems in his local area. He tourism industry. He would make an investment in is looking forward to a coalition government in this tourism and put his money where his mouth is. He State that will offer real incentives not only to people should do something to help Victoria. in metropolitan areas but also to those in country and regional Victoria. A suggestion has been made about rodents leaving the sinking ship. They are scuttling off! The The government has a blinkered view about what honourable member for Essendon is not the only one happens past the tram tracks; it believes Victoria who qualifies for that definition! A number of ends where the tram tracks end. Government Ministers are actively working on a regular basis to Ministers must visit country areas. Recently there undermine the Premier's activities and the Leader of has been criticism of what some shadow Ministers the Opposition has outlined conversations he has have said on visits to country areas. At least the had with some individuals. coalition has politicians who are prepared to visit those areas. We need a commitment by the government to the future. A coalition government will have a I refer to a statement attributed to the opposition commitment towards regional development, greater spokesperson on industry and manufacturing, the provision of infrastructure - particularly in regional honourable member for Bennettswood. The Victoria - increased tertiary places and an Treasurer accused him of saying the coalition does increased number of apprenticeships. not have any policies on industry. Everyone knows that is not what the honourable member said. He We have heard nothing from the government about said the coalition has the policies and it will what it intends to do to solve the massive announce them. unemployment problem. The only positive thing the government can do to lead Victoria onto the road to Mr Pope - When? recovery is to call an election.

Mr McNAMARA - You call the election! We Mr POPE (Minister for Labour) - One would will announce them when you call the election. expect a debate on a motion to adjourn the House to Victoria needs people who will be productive. I have be structured in a way that addresses the issues. The been advised by the honourable member for Leader of the OppOSition has not given us details of Ivanhoe that in the past the productivity of the the opposition's alternative policies. He was Treasurer has not been at the highest level. If anyone followed by one or two speakers who actually gave created strife at the former Heidelberg High School, details in their specific areas. now Banksia Secondary College, it was the Treasurer. He was the most disruptive influence at Mr A. J. Sheehan interjected. that school. He practised flexitime before it was officially introduced. It was rare for him to be seen at Mr POPE -As the Treasurer said, you would the school on Mondays. If that is the sort of expect substance, but the opposition has not got any productivity levels the Treasurer is setting as an substance. The Leader of the National Party, who example to others in the public sector, this State is in members opposite found humorous, did not offer trouble! one single policy to address the problem of unemployment. As the Treasurer and the Minister We need people at leadership level in government to for Post-Secondary Education and Training said, the show a better example of productivity than does the Leader of the Opposition came out with empty Treasurer. His record has not been startling. We rhetoric and 1970s advertising blurbs such as: the need people in government who have a commitment education system will be reformed; schools will be UNEMPLOYMENT

148 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 19 March 1992 made relevant to the needs of this decade and will At least we got some policies from the honourable hum with purpose and Vitality. member for Hawthorn. He described workers compensation under a coalition government. I know Where was the structured debate? The opposition is a lot of debate is going on between Mr Hallam in supposed to be the alternative government but we another place and the honourable member for did not hear any substance at all from it. Perhaps Hawthorn about the direction in which the they thought up this motion half an hour before opposition is going on this matter. Parliament sat today or perhaps they actually discussed it for a week - who knows? I understand that although Mr Hallam is not so keen on private insurance coming back into the system If we are to have a debate on the adjournment of the the Deputy Leader of the Opposition is, and he is House - this is only the second such debate during assisting Mr Hallam to ensure that that goes this Parliament - some substance should come through. The honourable member for Hawthorn through. The second speaker was the only one who said the opposition would set about rectifying the actually put up some policies. situation by bringing in a workers compensation scheme and returning to the bad old days - when An Honourable Member - Who was that? premiums were not 3 per cent but around 9 per cent and some manufacturing industries paid up to Mr POPE - The honourable member for 22 per cent. His solution to the workers Hawthorn was the only speaker who put forward compensation system is fatally flawed. He will lose some policies. Although the problem was that the that debate within the coalition. policies were wrong - and I shall go through those in a moment -at least some policies were put He also referred to industrial relations matters. The forward. Obviously he wanted to display his wares opposition's industrial relations policy is about ten to the opposition backbench. I thought he displayed paragraphs long and is offered as a solution to them very well. His delivery was good although overcome the unemployment situation. He plans to there was not much content. He was endeavouring put in place a system of employment contracts to display to the backbench that he had the ability to between the employer and the employee similar to become Leader of the Opposition. You did well, those in New Zealand. However the unemployment Phil. Congra tula tions! rates in New Zealand are higher than ours. After introducing the employee contract Act the New The Leader of the Opposition spoke for some time Zealand Prime Minister, Mr Bolger, found that his about what youth needs. However, most of what he popularity rating dropped below the bank interest said was empty rhetoric. The Leader of the rale. He is saying that will be another sinecure for Opposition asked the honourable member for unemployment. Ballarat North to develop a youth policy; he was to set up a task force on youth affairs. The Bendigo We should look at the industrial relations situation Advertiser of 13 March 1990 described the at the moment. If it is so bad why do the latest honourable member for Ballarat North as the Australian Bureau of Statistics figures show only 137 opposition spokesman on youth affairs. When industrial days lost for 1000 employees? speaking about youth affairs at a conference of the Young Liberals in Bendigo he admitted: The ACfING SPEAKER (Mr Evans) - Order! The time appointed under Sessional Orders for It will be hard to get the youth policy past the blue Government Business to take precedence has now rinse set. They come from a different generation and arrived. would rather see young people doing national service or something like that. Debate interrupted.

His admission, made in 1990, rang true. The reality Sitting suspended 1 p.m. until 2.3 p.m. is that the opposition could not get the policy through because even now, two years later, it still does not have one! We have heard cant and rhetoric from the Leader of the Opposition about the plight of youth in Victoria; but two years after setting up a task force we still have not heard anything about the opposition's youth policy. FIRE AND EMERGENCY SERVICES (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL

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FIRE AND EMERGENCY SERVICES the economic management of the State. Especially (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) Significant was the fact that it spelled out its Budget BILL sector planning projections for the next three years.

Introduction and first reading My purpose today is to inform the Parliament and the people of Victoria of the substantial progress the For Mr SANDON (Minister for Police and government has made towards achieving the aims Emergency Services), Mr Pope introduced a Bill to of the economic statement. extend the sunset provision in the Fire Authorities (Contributions) Act 1989 and to make ECONOMIC SITUATION miscellaneous amendments to the Country Fire Authority Act 1958, the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Financing targets Act 1958 and the Victoria State Emergency Service Act 1987 and for other purposes. Probably the most important of the commitments of the economic statement was its projection of Read first time. financing transaction targets for the next three years. Those published in the Budget Papers are shown in HOSPITALS AND CHARITIES Table 1. They show that, by 1993-94, Victoria will (EXTENSION) BILL have turned its current account to a surplus and reduced financing transactions to a quarter of their Mrs SETCHES (Minister for Community Services) 1991-92 level. introduced a Bill to amend section 173 of the Health Services Act 1988 and section 200AB of the TABLE 1: Community Services Act 1970 and for other purposes. PROJECTED FINANCING TRANSACTIONS ($ million) Read first time. 1991-92 1992-93 1993-94 MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Budget Estimated Estimated

Progress report on June economic Current 428.8 121.0 -338.2 statement Capital 1065.2 734.2 764.3 Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - I desire to make a Ministerial statement which is a progress report on the Premier's June economic statement. TffiAL 1494.0 855.2 426.1 INfRODUCTION Despite the very difficult economic conditions that On 19 June 1991, the Premier delivered an economic we have endured since the June economic statement statement which spelled out three key elements in the government remains firmly committed to the government's plan for the future. These were achieving the stated turnaround in its financing aimed at: requirements within the three-year planning period.

ensuring that the State government lives within Growth its means; In June 1991, when the statement was prepared, Victoria was suffering from the Significant ensuring that as taxpayers and customers of deterioration in national economic conditions which government trading enterprises the people of had first become apparent at the beginning of 1990. Victoria obtain greater value for their money; and The speed and depth of that downturn was in marked contrast to the economic conditions of the emphasising the importance of investing in mid-1980s, and it was expected that recovery, at a Victoria's future. modest rate, was imminent. Accordingly, the June economic statement forecast the State's GDP growth The statement specified in clear detail the for 1991-92 to be 0.4 per cent. government's major commitments with respect to MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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By the time the Budget was delivered in August LIVING WITHIN OUR MEANS statistics had become available for the preceding June quarter and these led to the forecast annual The June economic statement set clear goals for growth rate being revised downward to zero. government financial management. The government provided a three-year financial plan and outlined Since then economic indicators have given mixed strategies for improved debt management and debt signals and recovery has been slower than expected. reduction. This had been principally because of a weaker than expected international economy, necessary Detailed below are key government undertakings structural adjustment and lack of business with attached commentaries on how well these confidence nationwide following a long period of undertakings are being met. high interest rates and the impact on Victoria of drought in Queensland and New South Wales. 1. The Budget planning framework

Honourable members interjecting. The 1991-92 Budget was framed in extremely tight economic circumstances. The government accepted The SPEAKER - Order! The Deputy Leader of the challenge imposed by economic circumstances the Opposition is well aware of his responsibility in and delivered a Budget that sets a solid foundation this place and the rules of the House. I ask him and for the State's economic recovery. Targets for the other honourable members to remain silent. Budget were developed within a three-year strategic financial plan. These are intended to: Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - The Commonwealth Treasury has now revised its forecast of GDP growth Adjust Victoria's Budget to live within its means. in Australia for 1991-92 from 1.5 per cent to zero. This has been achieved. Agency expenditure savings targets will be met. The government will Revenue base deliver the $600 million reduction in outlays targeted in the June statement. However, the As was emphasised in the June economic statement, longer than anticipated period of economic the recession has demonstrated the sensitivity of the downturn has had an unforeseen impact on State's revenue base to cyclical downturns in the revenues. economy. This is because two of the most Significant of the State's revenue sources, payroll taxes and As I have already emphasised, the government is stamp duties, rapidly reflect changes in the level of committed to ensuring that the three-year economic activity. The continuation of the recession, planning targets of the June economic statement and its associated high rates of unemployment, led will be maintained. to the revenue forecasts in the June economic statement and the Budget Papers being successively The Budget planning targets involve continued revised downwards. restraints in:

Immediate prospect Fees and tax increases. The government has restricted increases in most charges to below the The present recession has hit Victoria very hard. Just level of CPI increases. It has also taken steps to: as the recession has not been of Victoria's making but a consequence of international economic forces increase the exemption level for payroll tax; and Commonwealth government policies, so too its recovery will be very dependent upon those same reform land tax; factors. It is therefore pleasing to note that the Prime Minister's statement of 26 February has heralded a complete the harmonisation with New South set of policies which will bring about national Wales of payroll tax and financial institutions economic recovery. duty.

Treasury is currently undertaking a detailed revision Revenue initiatives included: of its economic forecasts in the light of the Prime Minister's One Nation statement. the reintroduction of car registration for Private A vehicles and 15 per cent increase for commercial vehicles; MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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traffic infringement notice fines have been Mr A. J. SHEEHAN - That is an interesting raised by 20 per cent; interjection following the honourable member's contribution yesterday! introduction of electronic gaming machines. The government will ensure that the community is Maintain government priority programs. The provided with a regularly updated public sector government will continue to protect key service balance sheet. delivery outputs. Agency expenditure constraint has been quarantined to areas that have no 3. Management of current debt impact on priority programs. The COIll.IT'.unity interest has been protected. The government has The government indicated in the June economic indeed achieved more with less. statement that a change in emphasis in managing debt would bring about considerable savings in Maintain a capital works program. The government interest costs for current debt and new borrOwings. is determined to provide the Victorian community with a rich social, physical, cultural The key elements of the debt management strategy and environmental infrastructure so as to have involved: maximise and extend employment opportunities. Key capital works projects being undertaken centralisation of the operational management of include: all Public Account-funded debt (Financial Agreement and Housing Agreement and other extensions to hospital system - Peter housing debt) to the Victorian Public Authorities MacCallum, Austin, Talbot, upgrade theatres at Finance Agency (VicFin); PANCH and further major works at Western Hospital and the South-Eastern Medical Centre; the establishment of the Treasury Corporation of Victoria (TCV) by combining the existing new schools; operations of VicFin and the Victorian Development Fund (VDF); museum. an expanded role for the TCV to cover the Manage total Budget sector debt so that debt seroicing management and restructuring of all Public does not exceed 15.5 per cent after 1993-94. The Account-funded debt in accordance with an government has introduced a total debt agreed formal three-year strategic plan management package that will ensure that this incorporating government and debt management debt servicing commitment will be met. Details of objectives. this package follow later in this paper. 4. Measures to Reduce Budget Sector Debt and Liabilities Notwithstanding the severe economic downturn, the government expects any variation in the financing As stated in the June economic statement, debt transaction against the Budget estimate to be within management is a major component of restoring 1 per cent of total outlays. economic confidence and growth. The government is pursuing a program to effectively tackle the 2. Victoria's balance sheet question of Budget sector debt and liabilities.

As was foreshadowed in the June economic Other measures currently being implemented to statement, Victoria's Public Balance Sheet, which was reduce Budget sector debt are: published a fortnight later, showed State total assets to be valued at $93.7 billion. These were offset by restructuring the Budget to provide for reduced liabilities of $53.8 billion. In other words, for each financing transactions in the medium term and Victorian, their public owned assets of $21 550 per the achievement of Current Account surpluses in head exceed liabilities by $9182. the longer term to permit the systematic retirement of debt; Mr Cooper interjected. continuation of business assets sales to finance debt retirement through the Victorian Debt MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Retirement Fund managed by the Victorian Debt State Supply Service has contracted out its major Retirement Authority (VDRA); warehousing to the ONLINE division of Mayne Nickless, releasing major warehouses worth $10 evaluation of expressions of interest for the sale of million at Maribymong, Collingwood and Port SIO; Melbourne. Staffing is being reduced from 150 to 60, saving more than $1 million in Budget improved cash flow management, as detailed appropriation this year. previously; The courier services were fully commercialised adherence to interest repayment target -less this year, saving nearly $1 million. Further than 15.5 per cent of recurrent revenue by 1993-94. benefits will flow to client agencies next year as the service is further contracted out, reducing VALUE FOR MONEY costs and prices.

The June economic statement sets out clearly the The Victorian Government Printing Office has government's program for improving the been segmented into four core businesses and performance and effectiveness of the public sector. peripheral or unprofitable activities have been The government gave an undertaking to remove divested. Past losses are now turned around. impediments to economic growth and better service Clients have benefited from lower printing prices. delivery by substantially improving the performance Government has benefited with the release of the and cost effectiveness of all areas of the public large North Melbourne site worth about $6 sector. The government gave a guarantee that, million. Staffing which once exceeded 550 is now subject to current financial constraints, the level and fewer than 200. quality of core services were to be maintained and enhanced. Commercialisation of the vehicle fleets at Treasury Place pool has enabled a 20 per cent fleet Other aspects of the ''Value for Money" component reduction to be achieved. of the June economic statement are as follows: Introduction of a public sector management 1. Better delivery of programs reform package to allow for reduction in financial resources allocated to service delivery The government has: expendi ture.

Identified opportunities for the commercialisation of Improved revenue gathering performance. agency activities. Most noticeably this involves recently alU10unced These include: measures to maximise revenues through improved enforcement in the areas of: State Supply Service; stamp duties evasion; VicFleet; liquor licence fees; Government Courier; warrants and fines; ADVic; financial institutions duties; and Victorian Government Printing Office. tobacco franchise fees. In each case, the process has either been commenced or has been completed. The benefits It is expected that these activities will generate up of commercialisation are already flowing to to $20 million additional revenue in 1991-92. government in lower prices to agencies, reduced appropriations, assets released and recovery of Correction of agency inefficiencies identified by the the hidden costs of interest. Auditor-General. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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The government has committed itself to rectifying Protection of core services. agency inefficiencies as identified by the Auditor-General in his 1991 report on Ministerial The June statement targeted reductions in outlays portfolios. Of all ''key'', "major" and "prior year" of the order of $600 million. These expenditure findings, 83 per cent have been resolved or are in savings are being delivered in a way that protects the process of resolution. Some 6 per cent relate to and enhances essential core services. technical interpretation and treatments and the remaining 11 per cent will be addressed. The Agency budget action plans are being constantly Auditor-General was impressed by the innovative finetuned to ensure that the Victorian community approach taken by this government to resolving is provided with key services even in this period public sector inefficiencies and wrote to the of falling State revenues and tight economic Minister for Finance as follows: condi tions. The process which you have put in place not only Public sector management reform. ensures that my comments and recommendations are fully evaluated but, in my opinion, will enhance The government endorses the decisions of confidence in public sector administration and relevant tribunals concerning the national wage improve the financial management of the State. case and December State wage case. The decision Promoting efficient resource utilisation by providing of both tribunals was to formally introduce agencies with longer term planning time frames. enterprise bargaining which was the central thrust behind the government's Accord Mark VI In the Budget, the government published its Agreement. The Industrial Relations Task Force three-year financial plan. All agencies will now be has established guidelines for the endorsement of provided with three-year forward planning enterprise agreements. These have been targets. This means that the public sector will circulated to public sector agencies for work to medium-term planning horizons. This appropriate and immediate action. initiative will mean that the Budget sector can provide better services for less public money The government has met all targets for the more because it can plan more strategically. efficient and cost effective delivery of programs, but it is not stopping there. It will shortly Budget monitoring. announce and implement a program for the further reform of public sector management. The 1991-92 Budget has been subject to an extremely rigorous monitoring and control This reform package will involve major changes regime. There is a formal mechanism for ongoing to the financial management arrangements for consultation between agencies and central government agencies. It will yield substantial agencies on budget delivery. The result is that improvement in the efficiency and productivity of agency budgets will meet stringent expenditure agencies. targets in 1991-92. This will be a remarkable achievement given the tight economic context. This package of reform measures will aim to ensure that government agencies provide more Cash flow management. and better services to the community for less financial input. Any well run business enterprise relies on reliable cash flow projections. The same is true for the 2. Work force planning in the public sector public sector. The government is committed to matching revenue and expenditure flows in a An essential element of any plan to improve the way that minimises avoidable costs. management and operations of the public sector is the introduction of a comprehensive work force A cash management task force is completing a management strategy. This is particularly evident in review of this area. Reforms have already been the context of the 1991-92 Budget. To meet Budget implemented so that agencies are now providing savings targets the government foreshadowed the daily cash flow projections three months ahead. need to reduce public sector numbers by up to 10000. This will be achieved while maintaining service levels. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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The work force management plan has been The wider use of the 48 / 52 arrangement implemented. It has delivered substantial effidencies and has achieved Budget savings targets. Extension of family leave to seven years

Employment reduction These initiatives, which will have a long-term effect, are working as intended. For example, so Total reduction in Budget-funded employment of far 680 Budget-funded employees have switched 6139 on an effective full-time (EFT) basis. After to the 48/52 model of employment whereby seasonal factors are removed the Wlderlying officers receive four weeks recreation leave and structural decrease is approximately 5400. an additional four weeks unpaid leave a year.

Enhanced Resignation Package (ERP): 3. Improved industrial relations

12500 persons expressed interest in the ERP. Victoria continues to have a low rate of industrial Funding has been approved for 7500 offers with a disputes. Australian Bureau of Statistics figures for maximum potential cost of $280 million. Total November 1991 show that Victoria had 137 working acceptances are likely to be more than 5000. days lost per 1000 employees, which is half the national average (267 days lost per 1000 employees) Work force redeployment and only 26 per cent of the NSW figure (525 days lost per 1000 employees). The ability to redeploy staff is crucial. It means that vacancies can be filled from within the The government reiterates its commitment to an existing public sector employment pool rather approach to industrial relations which contributes to than by employing additional personnel and making the public sector more efficient and ensures adding to the total wages bill. that the best use is made of financial resources and public assets. Redeployment agreements are now in force across virtually the entire Budget-funded sector. The June economic statement gave a commitment to devolve more responsibility to agencies for the The redeployment program is now operating development of industrial relations strategies. This successfully and is an important tool for keeping principle will be supported by the introduction of a ceiling on public sector employment levels. the public sector management reform package.

In the past two years almost 1300 employees have 4. Improving efficiency of Government Trading been redeployed between agenCies. This Enterprises (GTEs). represents an estimated budget saving of $42 million. In addition there has been a In the June economic statement the government Significant amoWlt of redeployment within indicated that a major objective of government Budget sector agencies. industry policy in the 1990s was to improve the productivity of government trading enterprises. Staffing initiatives Already this is taking place.

The government has implemented a set of staffing The major enterprises have been required to set initiatives to provide greater flexibility for prices and constrain costs to achieve a target real efficient work force management. These include: rate of return on the written down current cost of assets in service, and to pay dividends on the Voluntary extended leave without pay public equity held

The granting of leave without pay for short price increases have been sustained at lower than periods CPI for the five years since 1986-87

Leave on half pay for approved training/ study a consistently higher than 4 per cent real rate of purposes return on assets has been reported for recent years by Melbourne Water, the SECVand the Gas and The extension of the part time work force Fuel Corporation of Victoria ceiling from 5 per cent to 10 per cent. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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improved dividend payments have reflected Review of Commonwealth grants confidence in the future profitability trends from various productivity increasing factors The government is commissioning an independent economic analysis of the impact of The statement also indicated that a number of GTEs fiscal equalisation on economic efficiency. It is would be corporatised. also developing a strategy to achieve reforms in this area. In this regard, the following have been achieved: It is crucial that the Commonwealth government A Trading Enterprises Committee has been acknowledge that financial equalisation established to: arrangements require Victoria and New South Wales to maintain taxes at higher levels than develop criteria to test whether an agency other States. The fiscal imbalance question must might appropriately be corporatised or be addressed before substantive tax relief can be commercialised; effected for Victorian businesses.

monitor the application of these criteria when Regulation review and reform activities are agreed for corpora tisa tion/ commercialisa tion; The government will shortly make a major statement on regulation reform. Reforms ensure that necessary reforms are implemented. announced therein will address business requirements and commit government agencies Legislation has been introduced to corporatise to the reform process. Melbourne Water Corporation (MWC), but this was deferred by the opposition. The new target Improving the responsiveness of education and date for MWC to commence is 1 July 1992. training systems to the needs of industry

Legislative changes including amendments to the The government has put in place measures that Public Authorities Dividend Act have been meet the requirements set out in the June prepared. economic statement. Notably:

Proposals to corporatise the Grain Elevators Industry training boards have finalised Board are being examined. industry training plans for 1991-94.

The government has taken a hard look at Twenty non-TAFE providers have been opportuni ties for commercialising / corpora tising registered and it is anticipated that a further GTE activities. It has made decisions that will have twelve will be registered shortly. important long-term benefits for the community. The net effect of the ongoing program of reform will Performance agreements of the industry be to produce leaner, more service-oriented and training boards address awareness raising issues. cost-effective government trading enterprises. 6. Reforms Under Way 5. Assistance to Industry in the Traded Goods Sector. A nwnber of key reforms supported and proposed As detailed in the June economic statement the by the Victorian government have been adopted. government will develop an industry policy aimed These reforms will have Significant benefits both for at improving the general environment for business, the transport sector and for the community focusing particularly on improving up to generally. Reforms include: international standards the effiCiency and productivity of the government sector. Road transport reform

The following progress has been made on areas The National Road Transport Commission identified in the June economic statement: (NRTC) was established on 15 January 1992.

Phasing-in of new heavy vehicle charges by 1993. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Linked registers for heavy vehicles by June Industrial relations - several tmions are in the 1992. process of amalgamation to form blue and white-collar federations, with the intention of New Commonwealth-based Transporting eventually forming one tmion. Funding Act by December 1993. Significant progress is occurring in award Full heavy vehicle road cost recovery to be rationalisation. It is anticipated that in 1992 implemented by July 1992. agreement will be reached to replace 27 State/Federal awards with three Federal awards. NRTC is developing nationally uniform regulation and charging for heavy vehicles. Port authorities are now negotiating with a single industrial bargaining unit. National Rail Corporation The Port of Melbourne Authority (PMA) has Establishment of the National Rail Corporation downsized by 104 positions with an anticipated was strongly supported by Victoria. This additional 350 departures in 1991-92. Further initiative is a key element of this government's reductions are expected before June 1992. micro-economic reform strategy for Victoria. Pricing structures are being reviewed and The following progress can be reported: adjusted to better meet user needs.

National Rail Corporation to commence The Commonwealth government has allocated operations in mid-1992. $7.96 million to the South Dynon rail terminal which includes $600 000 towards the A consultancy has been established to identify standardisation of the Webb Dock line. issues affecting Victoria arising from the establishment of the NRC. It will propose Measures to reduce truck related cargo delays necessary reforms to the Public Transport are being implemented. A truck management Corporation to enable it to respond to system is expected to be operational in 1992. opportunities associated with the NRC's establishment. 7. WorkCare

In response to the Victorian government's The government has committed itself to pass on advocacy, the Commonwealth government will benefits to employers as WorkCare performance spend $115 million on the Melbourne-Adelaide improves. Accordingly the government announced standard gauge rail link. This will place the abolition of the 10 per cent surcharge on Melbourne at the hub of the new national rail WorkCare premiums from October 1991. This had system. The medium to long-term positive impact the effect of cutting the average rates from 3.3 per on Victoria's economic and industry growth will cent to 3 per cent of payrolls. be considerable. As an employer the government has a clear National electricity grid responsibility to improve its WorkCare performance. This is consistent with the government's The Commonwealth has offered to contribute up commitment to improving the overall performance to $100 million towards upgrading the existing and cost effectiveness of public sector operations. transmission link between New South Wales, Accordingly the government has introduced a Victoria and South Australia, subject to highly innovative scheme to facilitate the return of agreement with the relevant States on a timetable long-term WorkCare claimants to the workplace. for the development of the National Grid The target number of returnees in 1991-92 is 350. Thle Corporation and the separation of transmission full year benefit of this initiative is approximately assets to form part of the Corporation. $7.5 million.

Port reform INVESTING IN VICTORIA'S FUTURE

Substantial progress has been made in this critical In her June statement the Premier pointed out that micro-economic reform area. It includes: Victoria's future growth and prosperity would MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 157 depend on investment decisions now being made. regulation reform. It is anticipated that this will be She also emphasised that governments can no longer presented to Cabinet in March 1992. sustain the high levels of borrowings necessary to fund the infrastructure and services which 2. Growth through agriculture Australian communities now demand. She said it was therefore crucial that, if quality of community The government, working through the Rural life and appropriate levels of employment are to be Finance Corporation, is providing competitive maintained and enhanced, both the public and financing to the rural sector. Between July 1991 and private sectors must participate cooperatively and January 1992 the corporation received 455 separately to provide the essential service applications for loans and of these 233, totalling infrastructure. $17.8 million, were approved. The current lending rate has been reduced to 12.45 per cent. Consequent to the June statement a large number of projects have been set in train. The following is a Twelve rural counselling services (RCSs), employing progress report on some of them: fifteen counsellors, have now been established. A total of $162 850 has been distributed through these 1. Facilitating private sector investment services. The average assistance, which has ranged from $27 000 to $1865, has been $13 570 for each RCS. The June statement announced that the government was aiming to encourage industries which added In response to pressure from Victoria the value to Victoria's primary products. In accord with Commonwealth government agreed to increase the this, in October the government adopted a strategy level of funding for rural adjustment in Victoria. We to maintain and strengthen the processed foods have now received $13.07 million. One Nation industry in Victoria. This is now being implemented. announced an additional $30 million for the Rural Adjustment Scheme and a special one-off crop A private sector proposal for adding value to planting assistance scheme. aluminium from the Portland smelter has now been received. Plans to develop the aluminium rolling 3. Private sector investment in public infrastructure mill at Bendigo are well advanced. provision

Changes in the Commonwealth's trade policies have Since May 1991 when the government announced its negatively affected many Victorian manufacturing guidelines, some $100 million of private investment industries. This has had serious consequences in has been commenced, including projects such as the some provincial cities and towns. The government pulverised brown coal development, the accelerated has been seeking to minimise these regional effects infrastructure program for the construction of and has been negotiating with the Commonwealth suburban police stations and court facilities, and site to obtain special assistance measures. The One preparation work at St Vincent's Hospital. The total Nation statement provided an additional $51 million commitment for these projects, when fully for the Textiles, Clothing and Footwear implemented, is some $400 million. Development AuthOrity. Expressions of interest have been called for five The government, through the Department of projects involving the upgrading of transport and Manufacturing and Industry Development (DMID), energy infrastructure and rural development. Two has been especially active in promoting the of these have now advanced to the development of development in Victoria of high-tech industries. the second stage of their proposals. A further ten Under DMID's sponsorship the Victorian Software projects are currently being examined. Exporters Program has been established and the department is also bidding for a Joint Avionics Three government-owned sites have been vested in Organisation, which would employ 300 people, at the Department of Planning and Housing for joint Tullamarine. The department has also assisted in the development with the private sector for residential establishment of the Biomolecular Research purposes. A further 40 potential sites have been Institute, a joint venture between the Strategic identified. FeaSibility studies for twelve of these sites Research Foundation (SRF) and the CSIRO. being developed for affordable housing have now been completed. Tenders will be called for four joint The Office of Regulation Review is developing a venture projects between April and June 1992. proposal for a major government statement on MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Twenty-one police stations, three court houses and a ameliorating roadworks have now been completed community mental health centre at Dandenong have and formal road closure will be on 28-29 March. now been formally approved for delivery under the Victorian accelerated infrastructure program. Total 5. Investing in the community construction costs are estimated to be $157 million and total employment generated is expected to be The June economic statement pointed out that the 5267. All projects are expected to be completed economic downturn had caused a substantial between November 1993 and December 1994. increase in demand on various State programs offering support services. Because of this the 4. Better cities - Investment in the quality of life government urged the Commonwealth to continue to fund emergency relief at an enhanced level. The A panel report on the introduction of a more flexible Commonwealth acceded to this request with the performance-based housing code for all residential result that Victoria's allocation was increased to the development in greenfield areas has been received $7.5 million requested. by the Minister for Planning and Housing. A decision is expected later this month. The Commonwealth also expanded its own financial information service for pensioners to other A draft code for medium density housing that will low-income groups. It has also now commenced promote a greater diversity of housing and the more negotiations for the establishment of a national effective usage of available land is almost financial counselling scheme with additional funds completed. Exhibition of the draft is scheduled for in 1992-93. later this month. In the June statement the Premier announced that An issues paper aimed at reforming urban planning the government was concerned to improve services and the provision of infrastructure through the for families in which older parents act as primary integrated planning of new housing developments care providers for people with intellectual was circulated for comment last September. disabilities and that it proposed to establish a Submissions in response to it closed in January and specialist non-government housing agency to it is expected that an options paper will be reieased manage community residential units. Public later this month. consultation on these proposals is expected to be completed by the end of April when the reference Last December, in response to Victorian government group will report to the Minister. It is anticipated requests, the Commonwealth announced that it that, subject to Ministerial approval in each case, the would provide the State with $17 million from its specialist non-government housing agency will be Better Cities program. This will be employed in the established by June 1992 and that planned care for Plenty, Werribee-Geelong and south-eastern the children of older parents will be in operation in corridors and in the inner Melbourne and the latter half of 1992. Maribyrnong River districts. Construction has already commenced on some of the health, housing The statement made a strong commibnent to the and light rail projects. Tenders have closed for the provision of child care to enable women to flood mitigation works at Lynch's Bridge, and participate in the economic recovery. In accordance design work is well under way for early construction with this, the Office of Preschool and Child Care has in the Narre Warren, Hallam and Berwick areas. established a target of 2160 outside-school-hours care places for 1991-92; 1675 places have now been Following the calling for expressions of interest for established and it is expected that the remaining 585 its purchase, stage 1 of Eastside has been sold to will be established in term 2. Becton Corporation Pty Ltd. The contract of sale was executed at the end of January and it is now Seven new long-day care centres are under anticipated that work will commence in July or construction and another three will be operational August 1992. by June 1992.

The Premier's June economic statement announced A procedures manual has been prepared to assist the proposed pedestrianisation of Swans ton Street. TAFE colleges in the development of child-care The Melbourne City Council decided in November services and five extra child-care services have been to proceed with the scheme. All the necessary established in TAFE colleges. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Two public sector work-based child-care pilots have Mr STOCKDALE - The sad fact is that that was been established in the education and public an adequate commentary on the Treasurer's speech, hospitals sectors. because while he is fiddling and his back bench are sleeping, Melbourne and Victoria are burning. ApprOximately 62 000 preschool places are being funded in centre-based and mobile services this year. On the front page of today's Herald-Sun, there is a further indication of just how desperate a situation This year 250 new occasional care places are being the government has created in this State. Budget created. The allocation of 200 of these has already Rent A Car Pty Ltd has closed down, throwing been announced. another 1100 Victorians onto the Labor unemployment scrap heap. And the sad fact is that CONCLUSION there is not one word of apology to Victoria's unemployed for the misery the government has By all measures, the economic environment within created, but three members of the government had which the government has operated over the past the gall to sleep through the Treasurer's speech. year has been very difficult. It was in recognition of the fact that this would be so that the Premier Everybody knows from the record how incompetent delivered the economic statement last June. That Victoria's new Treasurer is. Indeed, it would seem statement clearly indicated that the government that his mission is to make the two previous failed would not shirk its responsibilities, but rather that it Labor Treasurers look good by comparison. was prepared to confront them. What is more, as part of the process of ensuring that confidence was What is less well known is the fact that the restored and recovery begun, the government set government now comprises a group of economic itself tough and measurable targets. conspirators intent on the sabotage of the finances of Victoria. The Treasurer sabotaged the former Through providing this review of the progress of the Treasurer, the honourable member for Brunswick. initiatives and policies outlined in the June economic He engaged in the conspiracy, briefing the media statement, I have demonstrated that the government against Mr Roper with the object of bringing him of Victoria has not only made the tough decisions so down. necessary to put Victoria on the road to economic recovery but is already implementing most of them. He white-anted Mr Roper with the media and with his colleagues, and then he joined the Premier in That is not to say that we are self-satisfied. We admit replacing the Treasurer with an even worse that more is to be done, but we are determined to performer - himself! ensure that Victoria's recovery is econOmically viable, socially just and environmentally sustainable. Mr Micallef - That is an insult to Parliament.

By leave, I move: Mr STOCKDALE - I take up the interjection that it is an insult to Parliament. That the Ministerial statement be taken into consideration forthwith. The ACfING SPEAKER - Order! I remind the honourable member that interjections are disorderly, Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) -It is noteworthy and I ask the honourable member for Springvale to that during the Treasurer's speech the honourable restrain his remarks. members for Oakleigh and Morwell dozed off from time to time, while the honourable member for Mr STOCKDALE - They certainly are Geelong slept through the whole performance. disorderly, but it is an accurate interjection in that it is a disgrace to Parliament that the present Treasurer Honourable members interjecting. white-anted the former Treasurer, and eventually brought him down. The ACfING SPEAKER (Mr J. F. McGrath) - Order! The House will come to order. The Treasurer So deep are the divisions within Cabinet that the had the courtesy of being heard in relative silence, former Treasurer and the present Treasurer have and I ask the House to accord that same privilege to separated in the House. They used to sit together on the honourable member for Brighton. the front bench; they have now been shifted and kept apart. Obviously the antagonism being MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

160 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992 expressed to the media and to members of the introducing responsible policies but by doubling the coalition means they are not even permitted to share amount of deficit it has projected. This year the the same bench in the House. deficit is forecast to be $1494 million - the biggest deficit ever in the history of this State - and the The government has embarked upon a politically Treasurer has the gall to suggest that his policies motivated, systematic sabotage of the finances of involve living within the means of the State! Victoria. The government is employing the technique of deliberate deferral of liabilities and a Of course, we know that, only seven months into the means of dealing with a Budget which is out of financial year, with less than 60 per cent of the year control to deliberately sabotage the finances of the passed, the government has already accumulated incoming coalition government. just less than 80 per cent of the forecast Budget deficit. Therefore, it is clear that we are in for It is an irresponsible policy, which has aggravated another Budget deficit this year. the present recession and will further extend it, delaying Victoria's recovery from recession even Moreover, the State's debt has increased when the rest of Australia is emerging from it, and $1000 million faster than the disastrous forecasts that which is consigning hundreds of thousands of were included in the economic statement. Are we Victorians to the unemployment scrap heap. living within our means? The government's figures show quite clearly that we are not. It is interesting that in today's statement there is no systematic analysis of the June economic statement; In relation to the government giving value for the nonetheless, even this cursory examination manages enterprise that it operates, not one shred of evidence to find this incompetent Treasurer damning the was offered to Parliament to show whether government on his own criteria. Victorians are gaining any benefit. Indeed, as I will show later, history is now replete with instances Page 1 of the statement expresses three criteria by such as the case of the overburden contracting which the government's performance against the dispute within the SEC where the government has economic statement is to be measured: is the squibbed the issue, buckled under to its union government living within its means; are the mates, and abandoned the interests of Victorians in government business enterprises giving value for the operation of government business enterprises. money to the people of Victoria; and is the The government has brought the government government investing in the future of Victoria? business enterprises in this State to their knees.

The people of Victoria do not have to turn to the The second major credit rating agency in the world coalition for an assessment of the answecs to those suggested only a few years ago that on any proper propositions because they are damningly answered reckoning the State Electricity Commission of in the government's own publications. Victoria is insolvent. We are not getting value out of our government business enterprises. Firstly, the government claims that its primary objective is to live within the means of the State The third criterion in the statement was investment government. We have had two IGrner Labor in Victoria's future. The government has done more Budgets, both of them distinguished by the fact that than any other group of people in the history of the they are even more disastrous than the succession of State to destroy the future of the State. Our credit failures that the former Premier and the former rating has been downgraded twice; Victoria has Treasurer have wrought on our State. more than $30 billion of additional liabilities it did not have when this mob took control of the State's What do they disclose? In 1990-91 the government finances. set a target for how far beyond our means it would live. It claimed we would have a deficit in the State Expenditure is crashing through the roof. Our debt Budget of $660 million. The deficit came in at nearly problem is a national and international scandal, and double that amount - $1249 million worth of living the government is now sabotaging the future of our beyond our means. State.

This year the government has sought to avoid a Even if we examine the most obvious indicators, the repetition of that disastrous blow-out, not by only single area of expenditure restraint under the tackling the deficit or restraining expenditure or two IGrner Budgets is in capital expenditure. This MINISTERIAL STA TEMENT

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 161 year it is the only area of restraint, and, far from strategy; it has a debt increase strategy. On every investing in Victoria's future, this year capital measure of State debt, wherever one looks - Budget expenditure out of the Victorian government's or non-Budget sector - for the public sector as a Budget is down 2.5 per cent in real terms. So much whole, in either absolute or net terms, the Kirner for counter-cyclical investment patterns. statement and the Budget project a substantial increase in State debt in every year until 1993-94. Capital regeneration in the Victorian public sector is now less in absolute terms than even in the The Auditor-General has gone further and revealed disastrous Cain years. In real terms capital that public sector indebtedness for the year 1990-91 investment in the State has fallen 27 per cent since exceeded $38 billion, an increase of $5.5 billion in the 1988-89 Cain budget, or 9 per cent in real terms just one year of the Kirner government's debt by this year. management strategy. The debt management strategy has resulted in the biggest single increase in Capital expenditure has been run down in order to State debt in the history of Victoria. Indeed, Victoria maintain Labor's excessive spending on operating may well be better off if the Premier abandoned her costs - recurrent own-purpose outlays. debt reduction strategy because the rate of accumulation of debt has accelerated since the debt The Kirner government even improperly classifies reduction strategy was introduced. retrenchment payouts as capital outlays to give a false impression of higher capital spending. I turn now to the saddest thing of all, the Retrenchment expenses are, of course, related to unemployment projections, the great blight on Public Service salaries and have nothing to do with Australia in which Victoria is blighted more than capital regeneration. any other State. The Premier's statement projected unemployment would exceed 10 per cent in each The Kirner government continues to use capital year until 1993-94. The Premier is only a recent funding for recurrent purposes, a practice which has convert in her concern about unemployment. been consistently criticised by the Auditor-General. Nonetheless, unemployment reached 11 per cent in The Auditor-General informed Parliament that this Victoria in October 1991 and accelerated to the year's recurrent expenditure of $568 million was present peak of 11.1 per cent in January this year. In financed from capital receipts and borrowings. the same month the Treasurer made the cynical statement that he would produce 80 000 jobs this On the criteria set by the Treasurer's statement year. The figures are in for the first month since that today the government is a dismal failure. The June statement and the Treasurer is actually moving economic statement was abandoned even before the away from his target because 25 200 jobs have been ink was dry. Within three months the Budget lost in the month of January, when that commitment projections for current outlays were increased from was given. The Treasurer is now 105 000 jobs behind those set out in the economic statement. The his target. government could not even hold the line between June and the State Budget in August. Capital outlays The Victorian Budget is out of control after two decreased by $112 million during the same period. Kirner Budgets. In 1990-91, applying the Deficit projections increased by $6 million. On every government's own criteria, the Budget forecast a one of the critical Budget indicators the government debt at 30 June of $14331 million. In fact the debt failed to hold the line even between June and was $15 638 million. The Budget forecast a reduction August, and the situation is becoming worse. in debt of $139 million in the Budget sector. The actual outcome was $1105 million of extra debt. The The Premier said in June last year that we must Budget was wrong by $1244 million. invest in Victoria's future. The Treasurer has repeated that statement today. I have already drawn The position is the same with State debt. The attention to the fact that capital regeneration is less government forecast State net debt at the end of the effective now than even during the years of the Cain year would be $27 188 million. One might have government. expected there would actually be a substantial reduction in State debt. After all, this was the year in The statement claimed that the government has an which the government actually budgeted to sell effective and sustained debt management strategy $3310 million of assets Victoria had built up over its which leads to long-term debt reduction. That is a history, including $710 million of land and other lie. The government does not have a debt reduction assets and $200 million of government businesses. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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One would have expected that if $3.3 billion of the newspapers agreed. Apparently the honourable people's assets were to be sold, at least Victoria member for Melbourne forgot, in his rush of blood, would have a substantial reduction in its debt! The tha t the Premier in equal candour admitted that the reality was otherwise. Budget had actually failed.

The Budget forecast an increase in debt of It is dearly documented that the Premier told the $574 million. Again the Budget was wrong. It did Knox News of 26 February 1991 that she believed the not tell the truth. The debt actually blew out to State would see the recession bottoming out in the $28 329 million, an increase over the year of next few months and that the first sign of the $1631 million, so the Budget estimate was wrong by economy picking up would be an improvement in $1057 million. the housing sector.

I have already referred to the supposed Budget In June 1991 the Premier, at page 6 of her economic deficit of $660 million for 1990-91. By February 1991 statement states: the government had delayed the Niemeyer statement by two months and did not provide any ... a modest economic recovery will commence in figures to Parliament or the people of Victoria. The Victoria late in 1991. then Treasurer was making soothing and reassuring noises about how the Budget would come in on The forecast for 1991 was that employment would target: ''Don't worry about the way it looks now, it fall by 3 per cent and unemployment would be at will be all right by the end of the year," he said. He 11.1 per cent! spoke about receipts being lumpy and coming in during the latter part of the year with expenditure In January 1992 the Premier again cried wolf. The bunched at the early part of the year - all the Herald-Sun of 25 January 1992 states: rhetoric that is now flowing from the current Treasurer! What do we find? The Budget shortfall in Mrs Kirner yesterday promised signs of an upturn in February was $1000 million. The Treasurer said, Victoria's flagging economy by the end of the year. ''Don't worry, mate, she'll be right." The end result was a deficit of $1249 million, nearly double the The Knox News of February 1992 states: $660 million forecast. Mrs Kirner says her predictions that the recession The Premier admitted that her Budget strategy and would bottom out by June had been wrong. the management of her Budget had failed. The Herald-Sun of 14 June 1991 carried the heading, The Australian of 11 February 1992 states: ''Kimer Admits Failure"; other newspapers had similar headlines. Mcs Kirner yesterday celebrated eighteen months in office by conceding the State was worse off now than Mr Cole interjected. when she took over from Mc John Cain. But Mrs Kirner said it was not her government's fault and blamed Mr STOCKDALE - The big mouth of the Victoria's economic state on the effects of the national honourable member for Melbourne is not backed up and international recession. by having read anything because the reality is that the headlines in the other newspapers of the same Such argument is known throughout the length and day were similar. A journal much more attractive to breadth of Victoria as the Jolly defence - '1t's the honourable member, the Age said, "Premier nothing to do with me". The Premier is Joan ''Don't admits Budget failure". A headline in the third blame me" Kimer; it is the guilty party defence. newspaper was, ''Victoria no better off with me - Kimer says". The honourable member for The Premier has admitted that her Budget strategy Melbourne says we have a conspiracy. The three has failed the people of Victoria twice. The 1991-92 metropolitan newspapers have conspired to Budget has the same hollow rhetoric that was blown misrepresent the Premier! Could the reality be apart by the performance of the previous Budget. otherwise? Is it possible all three newspapers got it Again we were told, as we were told the year before, right and the quotations attributed to the Premier that debt reduction is the government's major that day not only were accurate but actually objective. A projected deficit was set at reflected the situation? The Australian headline said, $1494 million, the largest deficit in the history of ''Budget fails on debt, job cuts: Kimer". All the Victoria. By January 1992, 58.3 per cent of 'the year DISTINGUISHED VISITORS

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 163 had passed but the deficit had already blown out to behalf of the Speaker a delegation of leading 79.5 per cent of the projected results for the year. members of the local Chinese-Australian Friendship Association. They are guests of the honourable What do we get from the current Treasurer? The member for Ballarat Province in the other place, same soothing words, the same bland assurances, Mr Dick de Fegely. the same diagrams on whiteboards and the same hollow rhetoric we got from the previous Treasurer. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT The Treasurer simply says, "She'll be right mate; don't worry, expenditure is concentrated at the Progress report on June economic beginning of the year and it will all come out all statement right". It did not come out right last year and I have no confidence that it will come out right this year. Debate resumed. The former Treasurer was wrong in 1991. Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - There has not This Treasurer is clearly incompetent; any person been a collapse in revenue, and the Treasurer is who sees him on television can judge that for deliberately misleading the people of Victoria. On himself. The Treasurer's record is a disaster for the every measure Victorians are burdened with a people of Victoria. substantial increase in taxation on the government's own Budget figures. Before I refer to the figures I Debt and debt reduction are two terms favoured by indicate that they are taken from the Budget. the Premier and the Treasurer. Is there a debt Honourable members should be aware that the reduction strategy as the government claims? The Neimeyer statements to February suggest many of Premier continues to appear on television and radio the Budget estimates will be exceeded. claiming that the government is reducing debt. That is an outright lie. The Budget says Budget sector The government budgeted for an increase in what it debt will increase this year by $1197 million, which defines as taxation of 9.6 per cent in nominal terms represents a 7.7 per cent increase in nominal terms and 6.5 per cent in real terms. Taxes, fees and fines and a 4.6 per cent increase in real terms. State debt is were budgeted to increase by 10.3 per cent in even worse. Far from a reduction this year the nominal terms and 7 per cent in real terms. Statutory government has budgeted for an increase of authority imposts were budgeted to increase by $1582 million. 26.6 per cent in nominal terms and 23 per cent in real terms. If taxes, fees and fines and statutory authority Why is all this happening? The Treasurer asserts it is imposts are added together, they are budgeted to because of a revenue collapse. He made that claim increase by 11.9 per cent in nominal terms and when he released the last two Neimeyer statements. 8.7 per cent in real terms. The Treasurer claims the government is beset by a revenue collapse brought about by the recession. In real terms the burden of taxation imposed by this That is a deliberate lie. government on the people of Victoria is increasing at four times the inflation rate in this State. That is Mr A. J. SHEEHAN (Treasurer) - On a point of based on the government's projection of inflation, order, Mr Speaker, I ask the honourable member for which actually looks likely to exceed the real figure. Brighton to withdraw that remark. There is no collapse in revenue; that is an excuse the The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr J.F. McGrath) - Treasurer employs to divert attention from the fact Order! The Treasurer has found a comment made by that the government is preSiding over a disaster. The the honourable member for Brighton to be offensive, economic statement out of which the figures are and I ask him to withdraw. born is a disaster for Victoria.

Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I withdraw. The government has an expenditure overrun that is inflicting even greater misery on Victorians. It Debate interrupted. is perhaps the biggest taxation slug over the whole Budget since this government's 1983 Budget. DISTINGUISHED VISITORS Expenditure is not cut by $600 million as is claimed in the Budget and the Treasurer's update on the June The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr J. F. McGrath) - economic statement. That is another part of the Order! I interrupt the proceedings to welcome on fraud worked on the people of Victoria. At best, the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Treasurer is claiming the government is spending you on Monday." I bet he does not tell us on $600 million less than it would have spent had its Monday! previous policies been continued. However, he has cut $600 million not from expenditure but from If anyone has a secret policy it is the Treasurer. The forward estimates of the irresponsible policies VET fiasco might total $700 million and by 1995 it pursued in the previous year. might total $1000 million. What is to happen with the $30 billion of State debt? When are people going The reality is that there is no reduction in to be let into the secret that members of the Cabinet expenditure; there is a huge increase in real terms. have not agreed to and the statutory authorities have Total outlays under the Budget increase by said publicly they know nothing about? Who has the $1266 million, an increase of 8.9 per cent in nominal secret policy? Why is it secret? Is it because it cannot terms or 5.8 per cent in real terms. However, it is not stand up to scrutiny? It is a trick that will cost the because the government is investing in Victoria's people more in the long run. If there is anyone with future, as the Treasurer claims in the package of a secret policy, by his own admission it is the misrepresentations presented today. Capital outlays Treasurer himself. are the only area of restraint, and they fell by 2.5 per cent in real terms. With one exception, the performance of the Kimer government in 1992 has been worse than the disaster Mr A. J. Sheehan - What about policies? of 1991. A good measure of performance is the one the government uses, which shows the burden of Mr STOCKDALE - I shall come to policies. government on the community. It uses Victoria's non-farm gross domestic product (NFGDP) as a Mr A. J. Sheehan - Secret policies. measure to show the percentage consumed by the government in Budget sector recurrent Mr STOCKDALE - The Treasurer says the expenditure - the operating cost of government. In opposition has a secret policy. What an inane 1991 it represented 12.3 per cent of State NFGDP - Treasurer Victoria has! One would think a teacher that is, 12.3 per cent of everything produced in the who was used to preparing lessons, if not State was consumed by the government - and this understanding State Budgets, would at least think year it is 13.2 per cent. about the implications of what he was saying. The Treasurer has accused the coalition of having secret Total Budget sector expenditure for 1991 was 14.2 policies. per cent and in 1992 it is 15.1 per cent. Budget sector interest incurred last year was 1.77 per cent of Mr A. J. Sheehan - Or none. NFGDP and this year it is 1.92 per cent, which is a massive increase. The figure for public sector total Mr STOCKDALE - I shall canvass the policy outlays last year was 18.7 per cent and this year it is positions at a later stage. However, at the moment I 19.5 per cent. Last year 3.54 per cent of NFGDP was direct attention to the fact that on Sunday the needed to pay the public sector interest on the Treasurer told the people of Victoria via the Sunday State's debt bill, and this year it is 3.74 per cent. Age that he had a secret policy for debt Taxation last year was 5.99 per cent of NFGDP and rearrangement. On Monday he was asked what the this year it is 6.52 per cent. policy was and he said, '1 can't tell you, Cabinet has not endorsed it. It has not been discussed with Last year the deficit amounted to 0.66 per cent of statutory authorities and it has not been approved. I NFGDP, and this year it is 1.45 per cent. The extent can't tell you what it is, but it is a beauty". On to which Victoria is living beyond its means has Tuesday the Treasurer was asked in Parliament almost trebled. Net public sector debt has risen from what his secret strategy was. He said, '1'm not going 28.3 per cent of NFGDP to 29.1 per cent. In this era of to tell you. I will tell you later." debt reduction a government whose major commitment is to reduce debt has seen its own I understand why he is walking out. I have not preferred measure of debt actually increase by finished with him yet because over the past few almost 1 per cent of NFGDP. Total State revenue has weeks he has been telling us that he has a way to risen from 8.1 per cent last year to 8.8 per cent. sort out the Victorian Equity Trust fiasco - he is rolling it over. He was asked in Parliament, ''What The one area where we would not expect to find a are you going to do with the VETI" He said, '1t is a decline in the share of NFGDP attributable to State secret. I'm not going to tell you today but I might tell government activity would be capital expe~diture, MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 165 given the economic strategy of the June statement government they will reduce the coalition's term of and the Treasurer's statement today, both of which office and perhaps hold it to only three terms. The said investment in the future is a priority. We would coalition will be forced to deal with the crises and expect that that would be the one area where an time bombs left behind in the Sta te' s finances. increased proportion of NFGDP would be devoted to the government's investment program, but to do I shall quickly give examples of the deliberate so would be an aberration. It is the one area in which sabotaging of the State's finances: there is the huge the ratio decreases. When one compares last year's growth in expenditure; the huge growth in the tax figure of 1.88 per cent expenditure with this year's burden on the community; and the huge growth in figure of 1.84 per cent the lie is given to the claims debt and debt servicing costs that are locked into the made by the Treasurer here and outside Parliament. Budget and into the finances of the statutory authorities. Then we have the cynical ploy of the The burden on the Victorian economy has been government burdening future Budgets by deferring increased. The only figure that has fallen is the one expenditure by rolling forward into the next the government said should be increasing. There has financial year funding for private schools, bus been blatant incompetence in the management of contractor arrangements, pensioner rebates to local Victoria's finances. We do not have to recall all the councils and municipal library funding to the tune losses and the downgrading of our credit rating; we of $92 million. have to look only at the test the government sets to measure performance, which this discredited Mrs HIRSH (Wantirna) - On a point of order, Treasurer has failed. Mr Acting Speaker, I direct your attention to the fact that despite the interesting aspects of the shadow There is now a conspiracy to sabotage the finances of Treasurer's speech, the honourable member for our State, as well as the incoming coalition Frankston South is asleep. government. In 1944 Nazi Gennany invaded Russia, but ultimately was repelled. The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr J. F. McGrath) - Order! There is no point of order. Honourable members interjecting. Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - Not only does Mr STOCKDALE - As the Gennan army the government simply shift the cost between withdrew from Russia it burned and destroyed Budget years but, by virtue of deferring expenditure, everything in its path. It destroyed crops and forests it has increased the cost. and it razed factories to the ground. That action has been known since the days of Napoleon as the Mrs HIRSH (Wantirna) - On a point of order, scorched earth policy. It is a sinister and spiteful Mr Acting Speaker, I just noticed a gesture, which is policy which says, '1f we can't have it you won't usually regarded as obscene, and which I think was have it either". It is a policy designed to inflict pointed in my direction by the recently wakened maximum damage. honourable member for Frankston South. I do not know whether a gesture can be withdrawn but I do The Labor Cabinet has now agreed to a scorched take offence at it. earth policy for Victoria's finances. It is deliberately destroying the integrity of the Budget of the The ACTING SPEAKER - Order! The incoming coalition government. Labor is employing honourable member for Wantirna has suggested that the tactic ofbuming our State's finances and a hand gesture was made to her. It is difficult to sabotaging the future. Why? It suits its purposes. withdraw a hand gesture but I ask honourable members to reflect upon the code of behaviour that Firstly, it allows the Treasurer to avoid having to is expected of people of their stature. face up to the huge crisis his government has created in State finances. He is rolling over the VET Mr TANNER (Caulfield) - On a further point of problems and all the other government problems to order, an imputation was previously made by the avoid them so that he does not have to explain to the honourable member for Wantirna that an people of Victoria the actions that will be necessary honourable member was asleep. She then to repair the State's finances. contradicted herself a moment later by saying that she was offended by something that honourable Secondly, he and his colleagues believe if they member did. I direct that contradiction to your sabotage the Budget of the incoming coalition attention, Mr Acting Speaker. MINISTERIAL STA TEMENT

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The ACTING SPEAKER - Order! There is no taken and other contributions. There is indebtedness point of order, and I ruled appropriately before. in borrowings from the Emergency Services Superannuation Scheme now exceeding $220 million Mr E. R. SMITH (Glen Waverley) - On a point and I note also that some of the matters I have of order, Mr Acting Speaker, I direct your attention referred to, such as the recall of loans from the to the state of the House. The Whip for the Government Employee Housing AuthOrity, government has obviously failed to provide enough involved no agencies re-financing out of the Budget numbers. numbers.

The ACTING SPEAKER - Order! There is no There is the sale and lease-back of transport quorum present. Ring the bells. equipment involving obligations of $1500 million, more than 80 per cent of which are deferred until the Quorum formed. end of the lease periods. There is the commitment to the financing of the Portland electricity subSidy Mr STOCKDALE (Brighton) - I was talking costing in excess of $100 million this year. There are about examples of the deliberate sabotage of this other irresponsible policies which have the effect of State's finances that are a matter of policy with the getting in cash for this government at the expense of present Victorian government for the cynical increased commitments for the people of Victoria in purpose of attempting to shorten the term of office the future. of the incoming coalition government. They involve within the Budget about $100 million of deferred There was the initial Victorian Equity Trust which expenditure on just those four items I mentioned. raised $500 million but which has already cost more than $700 million and which threatens to increase to There is also the question of interest deferred. The nearly $1000 million within the next three years. government has accrued interest which has not been There is a $144 million commitment to re-finance the paid in the relevant Budget year. Indeed so massive National Tennis Centre over twelve years. There is has become that practice that this year it involves $1500 million of commitments under sale and more than $600 million with a net effect of moving lease-back deals for rolling stock. There is the $200 million out of this year's Budget. Income has purported sale of the World Trade Centre of which, been brought forward. There has been an early recall when the government was so incompetent that it of loans from the Government Employee Housing could not sell the centre, it forced the Victoria Police Authority involving $30 million; early collection of to become the head tenant. There is the World public authority dividends involving $65 million; Congress Centre with a cost of more than early collection of revenue from the racing industry $400 million which the taxpayers will have to fund involving $82 million; borrowing from the Victorian twice over the next seven years. Development Fund in lieu of asset sales involving $90 million, and early recall of loans to There is the Portland Aluminium Smelter Trust with non-metropolitan water authorities involving a debt of $466 million; commitments to the Victorian $190 million. Education Foundation; the Strategic Research Fund, and a host of other bogus investment bodies under These are not small figures; they are large transfers the captaincy of the discredited former head of the of revenue to create the impression of a Budget Department of Management and Budget, deficit which is under control at $1.5 billion but Or Sheehan, which are all commitments locked into which, just by the combined effect of the two classes the government in the future. of matters I have referred to so far, would be well in excess of $2000 million let alone, as I am reminded There is financial deceit and illegality. There is by the shadow Minister for Finance, the fact that illegal borrowing by the Victorian Development land tax receipts have been artificially brought Fund of $316 million; transactions described as forward into the first half of the calendar year, thus artificial and contrived by the Auditor-General for inflating receipts for this Budget year. the Victorian Development Fund involving $870 million; transport debt that has been There are diSguised borrOwings by the present understated by $347 million; interest payments that government which further undermine the financial have been understated by $100 million; and viability of public sector agencies. There is $100 million of interest rate swap deals that were indebtedness to the State Superannuation Fund of illegal and remain illegal. $1.1 billion of contributions not made for lump sums MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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There is a host of other commitments this repudiated. Victoria has heard the government's government has inflicted upon the people of Victoria rhetoric about restraint in all Budgets since 1985- which have the distinguishing feature of giving the but with a conspicuous lack of achievement. government cash now at the expense of further and Victorians also heard the empty rhetoric about higher commitments in the future. There are improved productivity in the public sector, and that problems the government has refused to confront: has been repeated again today in the Treasurer's the postponing of problems such as the unfunded statement. liabilities of WorkCare, which is now deteriorating again; superannuation schemes; unfunded liabilities; At the end of 1988 one would not have believed that sale and lease-back commitments; unfunded public a government could be elected whose record after sector entitlements; commitments to the Farrow two Budgets would be worse than those of the Cain group of companies and all the hidden debts we years. Between 1982 and 1990 Victoria had a have talked about before. government the like of which no Australian State had ever seen before, a government which brought a There are the financial failures that are still costing State to its knees; and a government which set in the taxpayers money and will continue to cost train the policies and the failures that led to two money in the future. There is the State Bank of downgradings of the State's credit rating, yet the sad Victoria sold off in a deal that sees the taxpayers in fact is that on every available indicator the Kimer the red. There are the Tricontinentallosses with government is worse than the Cain government was. $2.3 billion to be repaid before 1995 and the government has made no provision to deal with that I refer to examples: unemployment under Cain was liability; the incoming coalition government will 147000 compared with 245 000 under Kirner; have to find the money to make that repayment. unemployed youth, 21 000 under Cain and 41 000 under Kirner. The unemployment rate for all There are the continuing and still mounting losses of persons averaged 6.6 per cent at the end of the Cain the Victorian Economic Development Corporation era and has increased to 11.1 per cent under Kirner. and the Victorian Investment Corporation. There is Youth unemployment is perhaps the greatest single the lingering effect of the $700 million lost in foreign tragic legacy of the Kirner and Cain years: in the exchange - a loss that is still reflected in the State Cain years the figure was 19.3 per cent and it has debt. There are the stock market losses still reflected increased to 46 per cent in the Kirner years. That in depressed asset values because the government means 46 per cent of young Victorians are locked in the losses by selling other equities as the unemployed! stock market rose, and there are commitments to bodies such as Knowledge Victoria Ltd. Mr Gude - And going up.

There is a lack of financial competence in the central Mr STOCKDALE - I refer to the increase in responsibilities of government expenditure over unemployment: 29 500 under Cain; 97400 under Budget in every year since 1982. Taxation revenues Kimer. Youth unemployment increased by 11.7 per exceed Budget figures in virtually every year and cent under Cain and by 94.3 per cent under Kirner; deficits of around $1 billion a year since 1985-86 are the number of unemployed women increased by still rising at an astonishing rate. The government 25.9 per cent under Cain, and 38.3 per cent under has not met one revenue expenditure or deficit Kirner. target in any year since it was first elected. The monthly average of people leaving Victoria - The government has broken each of its three central that is, people voting with their feet against the promises. In 1982 it promised no increase in taxes Labor governments - was 897 a month under Cain, but what followed was a huge assault on the and has increased to 1349 a month under Kirner, an interests of Victorians in its first term. The increase of 64 per cent. government said taxation would rise at a slower rate than the CPI but in its next term increases in excess The State's economy is in a sad decline and I refer to of the CPI rate occurred in about 3000 items of State economic examples. taxation and charges. Statistics of new motor vehicle registrations reveal Then Victoria had the Premier's pledge upon which an increase of 13.6 per cent under Cain and a fall of the government was elected in 1988 and which, in 24.5 per cent under Kirner. the first action of this Premier, was abolished and MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

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Retail turnover trends demonstrate a rise of 10.2 per The same is true of the Budget because interest as a cent under Cain and a rise of 1.5 per cent under percentage of taxes has increased from 28.5 per cent Kimer. Retail turnover value increased by 0.1 per to 30.2 per cent; Budget interest has increased from cent under Cain and have fallen by 2.1 per cent 22.9 per cent to 24.9 per cent. As for the Budget under Kimer. deficit, the State experienced a 20.1 per cent increase under the Cain government and a 49 per cent New capital investment fell 6.9 per cent under Cain increase under the Kimer government. and 20 per cent under Kimer. The latest figures disclose that the Budget deficit has I turn to taxes and charges. Gas charges increased by increased from 1 per cent of gross domestic product 5 per cent under Cain and by 13.1 per cent under under the Cain government to 1.5 per cent under the Kimer; electricity charges increased by 5 per cent Kimer government. under Cain and by 11.4 per cent under Kimer; water charges increased by 4.9 per cent under Cain -- I have referred to each of those indicators on previous occasions in relation to the Budget The ACTING SPEAKER (Mr J. F. McGrath) - performance and the performance of the economy Order! The honourable member for Brighton should but sadly, in relation to employment, the Kimer address people by their appropriate titles. government is shown to be infinitely worse than the discredited Cain government which managed to win Mr STOCKDALE - I am not actually referring an election by a fraud in 1988. to the people but to their governments. I now take up the challenge of the Treasurer to go The ACTING SPEAKER - Order! If I may direct through the policies adumbrated this morning by the honourable member for Brighton: perhaps he the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. It is instructive should refer to the '1Cimer government" or the to contrast the imaginative policies of the coalition "Cain government". and its aspirations for the 1990s with Victoria preparing for the 21st century with those of the Mr STOCKDALE - Under the Cain government Australian Labor Party, which is bereft of ideas and water charges increased by 4.9 per cent and by 17.5 full of hollow rhetoric. The ALP has failed to deliver per cent under the Kimer government. even in the area where it has adopted coalition policies. Public transport fares increased by 4.1 per cent under the Cain government and by 34.1 per cent I now refer to the items announced today by the under the Kimer government. Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party. The first objective is to destroy taxation on jobs: to give The Cain government had a zero increase in driver people the hope of a substantial reduction in the licence fees while the Kimer government has marginal cost of employing Victorians; to take away increased them by 26.3 per cent. The Cain the disincentive to employment created by Labor; government increased third-party insurance rates by and to abolish payroll tax - the most important 3.9 per cent while the Kimer government has element of the coalition Fightback package. imposed a 5.2 per cent increase. The opposition offers hope in the abolition of the The Cain government abolished motor registration 7 per cent tax on jobs. What does the Kimer fees; the Kimer government reintroduced them at government offer? The last two State Budgets have the rate of $70 a year. resulted in an increase in payroll tax. This year payroll tax receipts will increase at a greater rate The bribe of a $100 a child education allowance, than employment and wages growth. The burden of designed to win an election for the Cain payroll tax has been increased by the government in government, was abolished by the Kimer a deliberative policy announcement. government. In the time I have been a member of this Parliament On each of the measures I have outlined Victorians this government has increased the rate of payroll tax are worse off after two years of the Kimer from 5 per cent to 7 per cent of payroll. This government than they were under the Cain government has deliberately taxed Victorians out of government. jobs because its domination by the W1ion ~ovement MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 169 and the socialist left will not allow it to restrain the VEOC and the Victorian Investment Corporation expenditure. and the collapse of State Bank Victoria. The debts continue in another guise through the deliberate As to the most critical issue facing Victoria - jobs - policies of the government. Figures published by the the taxation policy of the government is driving Auditor-General show that the losses already Victorians out of jobs. The taxation policy of the incurred in these new investment bodies exceed coalition offers the prospect of a substantial spur to those of the VEOC at the same stage of its employment. development.

The same is true of WorkCare -- I turn to the debt reduction strategy. Comparisons are odious. None could be more odious than the Mr Cole interjected. comparison of the government's so-called debt reduction strategy with the comprehensive debt Mr STOCK DALE - I take up the interjection of reduction strategy the opposition has published. the honourable member for Melbourne about a Our policy contains broad headings under which a contrast with New South Wales. In New South multiplicity of separate measures are allocated to Wales, workers compensation under the Liberal bring down debt, but the government bleats rhetoric government costs industry approximately half of the about debt reduction. The debt is now increasing at cost now applicable in Victoria. People are being twice the rate of accumulation of debt even during thrown out of jobs in Victoria by the unacceptably the Cain years. high level of WorkCare costs; the penalty system penalises those who improve their risk management. I turn to corporatisation to which the government pays lip-service. Many of the steps being taken in Investment is being driven from Victoria by the the guise of corporatisation will deny the combined effects of excessive charges and the advantages of increased competition to the accumulation of unfunded liabilities. Investors are enterprises themselves and, most particularly, to frightened they will be left to pick up the tab consumers. The government's so-called because of the failure of this government. Just as corporatisation policy is directed at preserving unfunded workers compensation drove investors government-owned monopolies so that unions can out of American and Canadian industries, so it is continue to extract the maximum benefit at the driving investment from Victoria; with that expense of taxpayers and the people of Victoria as investment go Victorian jobs. consumers.

The coalition's public sector management strategy is I turn to contracting out. There is ample evidence included in a detailed statement which was ahead of that Victoria should be contracting out -- its time in 1987. That has since been further elaborated upon but the government has uttered no Mr Cole interjected. response. Victoria has heard not one word of policy about reviewing the management of the Victorian Mr STOCKDALE - I shall return to your public sector. question because that is the next area with which I shall deal. I can understand that the honourable The strategy focuses on core service delivery member for Melbourne is confused. He takes his responsibilities. Government policies are focused on briefings only from the Treasury and then reads the placating its union mates and buying votes from government publication. He continues bleating that vested interest. the opposition does not have policies. He clearly has not read them. The coalition will put an end to government losses. We will get out of the speculative risk capital In relation to contracting out, we have a clear and ventures into which the government plunged unequivocal commitment to carry out the work that Victoria and into which Dr Sheehan's coterie has was initiated when the opposition was last in plunged new research funds and other investment government - that is, to contract out services to get bodies. The Victorian Economic Development the maximum efficiency and flexibility of private Corporation is alive and sick. It is very sick. It is sector performance. continuing in the guise of investment funds and research bodies over which Dr Sheehan still What is the record of the government? The flagship presides. We are still to meet the cost of the failure of issue of contracting out was the overburden removal MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

170 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992 in the Latrobe Valley coal mines. What did the economic growth by creating competition which government do in the face of the objections by its protects the interests of both industrial businesses union mates? It squibbed the issue; it diverted from and domestic consumers. the interests of the people of Victoria; and it handed the work over to the unions despite the fact that the The honourable member would have us lock up taxpayer retains the risk of the unions those important activities in sterile and unprofitable non-performance. government monopolies. We want to see that activity broken up into competing entities in private I turn to privatisation. The government has adopted hands and accountable to private capital markets some of the rhetoric of privatisation. I can with competition breaking the monopoly which understand the troglodytes of the Labor left, like the allows the union movement to rip off everybody else honourable member for Melbourne, railing against except government and which allows government to privatisation while the rest of the world is moving drive the utilities into the dirt by taking all of that towards privatisation which will secure real gains in profitability in dividends. These are the policies that the efficiency, particularly in Australia, of the use of have brought the State to its knees. those resources. It is interesting to note that there are only three Victoria is languishing under an early nineteenth government members in the House, one almost century Labor government which is still locked into asleep, one marking her paperwork and the other the rhetoric of the Webbs and Karl Marxes and those interjecting to defend the very policies that have who see profit as a dirty word. The honourable destroyed Victoria. member for Melbourne rails against profit as an undesirable motive where human history and the Mr Cole - I am listening intently. rejection of communism in Europe shows that privatisation is the way of the future. Mr STOCKDALE - I turn to industrial relations reform. The government cannot claim the opposition We are isolated in the Western World, compared does not have an industrial relations policy. It has with other developed countries, and even in relation spent most of the year railing against our policy. Its to the former European communist countries, by not argument is not that the opposition has no industrial having shifted activity from the public sector to the relations policy but that our policy will destroy the private sector. monopoly rents that its mates in the union movement extract from consumers in Victoria. Australian Bureau of Statistics figures show that over the past fifteen years government trading Our policy will prepare Victoria for an enterprises have averaged a return on capital of 1.6 ever-increasingly competitive world in the 21st per cent a year -a return of 1.6 per cent on century. electricity, gas, water and transport industries that are vital to the economic health of our State and I turn to the education policy. It should be a system country. committed to excellence, but the government is not achieving its objectives. Standards have fallen and What did the private sector average in the same the system is wide open to abuse. We have read time? The figure is 14.9 per cent; yet the honourable articles in our newspapers about teachers conspiring member for Melbourne would lock us into having to sell the answers to common assessment tasks. The substantial sections of our economy operating at a system is a shambles and the students have lost 1.6 per cent return. confidence in it. They are not preparing students for useful employment in their adult lives, let alone Mr Cole interjected. opening up the opportunities that proper education would provide. We should be tapping into the rich Mr STOCKDALE - The honourable member for opportunities that a diverse society like ours offers. Melbourne knows absolutely nothing about the Finally, there is a short and long-term stimulus for subject on which I am speaking. There are many employment with major projects such as the linking precedents around the world of electricity trusts of our freeways and other infrastructure that is part having been unbundled to create competition, to of the coalition's policy. become more efficient, and to ensure that it is not government and unions that capture the benefits of The choice is a very clear one. On the one hand, the greater efficiency but consumers. It is translated into government has been lying and is deceitful. The MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 171

Premier has delivered two Budgets and in both cases Batchelor, Mr Micallef, Mr has admitted they have failed. The government has Cain,Mr Noms, Mr implemented policies which have driven our State to Cole,Mr Pope,Mr the edge of bankruptcy. It presently adheres to those Crabb, Mr Ray,Mrs policies and is accelerating the accumulation of debt. Cunningham, Mr Roper, Mr On the other hand, the coalition has clear options Dollis, Mr (Teller) Rowe,Mr which are a sharp departure from the policies that Emst,Mr Sandon,Mr have destroyed our State. Fordham, Mr Seitz, Mr Garbutt, Mrs Sercombe, Mr (Teller) We have a policy of financial responsibility, a Gavin, Mr Setches, Mrs standing which is recognised by the community in Hamilton,Mr Sheehan, Mr A.J. public opinion polls. The coalition has the policies Harrowfield, Mr Sheehan, Mr F.P. and expertise. Most of all, it has the track record of Hill,Mrs Shell, Mr having responsibly managed the State's finances. Hirsh, Mrs Simmonds, Mr We have the policies that are designed to break us Jolly, Mr Spyker, Mr free from the shackles of union power and we will Kennan,Mr Thomson,Mr not be under the thumb of the left of the union Kennedy, Mr Trezise, Mr movement in Victoria. Kimer,Ms Walsh,Mr Leighton, Mr Wilson,Mrs Victoria needs a policy that puts the power over Noes, 37 their lives back into the hands of the people, a policy Bildstien, Mr (Teller) McNamara, Mr that relies on the genius of our people to improve Brown,Mr Maclellan, Mr the economy and their lives. Victoria needs policies Coleman,Mr Maughan, Mr similar to those being employed in the rest of the Cooper,Mr Napthine, Or world instead of stagnating and falling further Delzoppo, Mr Perrin, Mr behind. The policies the coalition has for the 1990s Dickinson, Mr Perton, Mr will prepare our State to reclaim its pride in the 21st Evans, Mr Pescott, Mr century. Gude,Mr Plowman,Mr Hayward, Mr Reynolds, Mr Most honourable members in this Chamber grew up Heffeman, Mr Richardson, Mr when Liberal governments governed this State, Honeywood, Mr Smith, Mr E.R. when one could go anywhere in the world and justly Jasper, Mr Smith, Mr I.W. claim that Victoria was a great place to live. Industry ]ohn,Mr Steggall, Mr was attracted to Victoria. The industrial base that Kennett, Mr Stockdale, Mr this government is wrecking came to Victoria Kilgour, Mr (Teller) Tanner, Mr because it could rely on the State's many advantages. Lea, Mr Wade,Mrs Lieberman, Mr Weideman, Mr As a father of three young children, I for one look McGrath, Mr ].F. Wells, Or forward to the day when we have repaired the McGrath, Mr W.O. damage this government has done and have rebuilt Pair this State so that again we can go anywhere in the Vaughan, Or Elder,Mr world and say with pride and certainty, 'We come from Victoria, potentially the greatest place in the Motion agreed to and debate adjourned. world", and we will make it that way again. Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - I Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - I move: move: That the debate be adjourned until tomorrow. That the debate be now adjourned. Mr I. W. SMITH (Polwarth) -On the question House divided on motion of time, Mr Speaker, yesterday we listened to the Premier psalm-singing her message of reform to this Ayes, 44 Parliament; today on a most important debate which Andrianopoulos, Mr McCutcheon, Mr goes to the core of the credibility -- Baker, Mr McDonald, Mr Barker, Mrs Mathews,Mr Mr Crabb - On the issue of time! MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

172 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992

Mr I. W. SMITH - Yes, it is on the issue of time. that this economic statement will be debated in On a debate that goes to the core of the Parliament at the earliest opportunity. government's credibility in updating the June economic statement the government allows only one House divided on motion: speaker from the opposition. The Treasurer is not even supported by the Minister for Finance, which is Ayes, 44 a deplorable state of affairs. Andrianopoulos, Mr McCutcheon, Mr Baker, Mr McOonald, Mr On behalf of my constituents and the opposition I Barker, Mrs Mathews,Mr have some important matters on this subject that I Batchelor, Mr (Teller) Micallef, Mr want to raise in Parliament. I want an assurance Cain,Mr Norris, Mr from the government that this matter will be Cole,Mr Pope,Mr brought on -- Crabb,Mr Ray,Mrs Cunningham, Mr Roper, Mr Honourable members interjecting. Oollis,Mr Rowe,Mr Ernst, Mr Sandon, Mr The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Fordham, Mr Seitz, Mr member for Polwarth is entirely within his rights in Garbutt, Mrs (Teller) Sercombe, Mr speaking and deserves to be heard. I ask honourable Gavin, Mr Setches, Mrs members on my right to remain silent. Hamilton,Mr Sheehan, Mr A.J. Harrowfield, Mr Sheehan, Mr F.P. Mr I. W. SMITH - I seek some assurance from Hill,Mrs Shell, Mr the government that this matter will be brought on Hirsh,Mrs Simmonds, Mr for debate as a matter of urgency so that honourable Jolly, Mr Spyker, Mr members whose constituents are concerned about Kennan,Mr Thomson,Mr the deplorable state of financial affairs to which this Kennedy,Mr Trezise, Mr incompetent government has brought us can air Kimer,Ms Walsh,Mr their points in the debate. Leighton, Mr Wilson,Mrs Noes, 37 The SPEAKER - Order! I ask the honourable Bildstien, Mr Maclellan, Mr member to confine his remarks to the question of Brown,Mr McNamara, Mr time. Coleman,Mr Maughan,Mr Cooper,Mr Napthine, Dr(Teller) Mr I. W. SMITH - I seek an undertaking from Delzoppo, Mr Perrin, Mr the Treasurer that this matter will be brought on for Dickinson, Mr Perton, Mr debate urgently. Evans,Mr Pescott, Mr Gude,Mr Plowman,Mr Mr W. D. McGRATH (Lowan) - Mr Speaker, on Hayward,Mr Reynolds, Mr the question of time, it is important that we have a Heffeman, Mr Richardson, Mr commitment from the government on this particular Honeywood, Mr (Teller) Smith, Mr E.R. subject. Too often we see matters put on the Notice Jasper, Mr Smith, Mr LW. Paper and then adjourned to some future date. John, Mr Steggall, Mr Yesterday the Premier's Ministerial statement was Kennett, Mr Stockdale, Mr debated all afternoon, yet, as the honourable Kilgour,Mr Tanner,Mr member for Polwarth said, debate on this economic Lea,Mr Wade,Mrs statement of the Treasurer, which is important for all Lieberrnan, Mr Weideman, Mr Victorians, is cut off after a contribution from only McGrath, Mr J.F. Wells, Or one member of the opposition parties. Honourable McGrath, Mr W.D. members have heard no argument from the Pair government side in response to the policies put DrVaughan MrElder forward by the honourable member for Brighton. Motion agreed to and debate adjourned until next The Leader of the House is present. Members of the day. Opposition parties want one thing from him and he should be able to give it to us now: a commitment VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 173

VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS It could easily be dealt with under the Agricultural (POISON BAITS) BILL Chemicals Act because, quite dearly, there was an intent when that Act was written for vermin to be Second reading dealt with through this process, and one wonders why this Bill has happened in this way. The only Debate resumed from 17 March; motion of Mr possible reason we have is that the Department of CRABB (then Minister for Conservation and Conservation and Environment wants to have a Environment). hand in this process, rather than the Department of Food and Agriculture. Mr COLEMAN (Syndal) - At the outset we should note that there have been some changes in Therefore, we have a dilemma. Essential to a the government administration of this Bill, and we developing industry based on plantations is some now have another new Minister handling it. This is control of damage to those plantations, which are a the third Minister to have attempted to handle it, so legitimate land use and which could easily be a it must be incredibly complicated. matter for the Department of Food and Agriculture; but the government has chosen this route to put in Firstly, I do not 'understand dearly why we have place a set of regulations for the handling of poisons actually attempted to handle the Bill in this way, and baits, and, quite clearly, baits that go well because the issues addressed by the Bill are, in fact, beyond those which might be used in plantations. part and parcel of the Agricultural Chemicals Act. That Act contains a definition which refers to a Obviously, the Bill deals with the rabbit and the vermin destroyer. A vermin destroyer means, by baits used to control that pest, but also it deals with definition in the Act: a number of other issues, particularly related to the control of vermin, and I suppose in many senses it is Any product used or intended to be used for welcomed. preventing, destroying, repelling, luring or controlling vertebrates such as mammals, birds, and fish Of course, a number of representations have been (including any animal or bird declared to be vermin for made to the opposition, and an organisation known the purposes of the Vermin and Noxious Weeds Act as Wildlife Rescue has made it clear that it is 1958 and any fish ... concerned about the use of baits, particularly in the forestry plantations. and so it goes on. That organisation has had continuing discussions Therefore, the intent of the Bill could well and truly both with the Department of Conservation and be handled within the parameters of the Environment and with Australian Paper Agricultural Chemicals Act, given that the purposes Manufacturers who are the principle developers of of the products deemed to be covered by the Bill are plantations in Victoria leading to a way in which it very much agricultural purposes. would be possible for the use of particularly the "1080" class of baits to be used in a more We are aware that the State and a number of private discriminating way. companies have attempted to establish plantations in this State, and one of the difficulties these people Having made the decision to use the chemical have found is that native animals are causing baiting process for the control of pest animals, the considerable damage to those plantations in their dilemma is that it is a difficult chemical to use in a young stages. discriminating way.

Native animals are damaging exotic plants, in the From that point of view everybody welcomes the form of pine trees, and there are no natural regulation-making powers which are part of the Bill, predators to control these animals. As my colleague and which will dearly put in place a structure by the honourable member for Berwick says - which those people who are using the baits can Australia strikes back! The fact is that the provision actually have some parameters put around the of the Bill, in dealing with the principle section of the application process so that surrounding landholders regulation-making powers for the use of poison can be advised of its use and of the substances and baits, is central to the development of plantations in concentrations that might be used. Also, the safety of this State. the public is considered in connection with the distribution, use and effects of these baits. VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

174 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992

Therefore, this process is welcomed, and, have the same priority when it comes to Crown particularly for those people in the plantation areas land. The management of government land has of South Gippsland, it will mean beginning to come slipped to the point where vermin and noxious to terms with the purposes of the use of the poison weeds on Crown land are reinfesting private land. 1080. The Department of Conservation and Environment has been brought into disrepute because of its Of course, work is being done to develop other types actions. It is a constant source of aggravation to of deterrents for use in plantations. As I understand private landowners whose land abuts Crown land it, it is being used in experimental stages, and it is and it places the officers who work in the hoped in the near future other options will be department under constant pressure in their own available which are a little more selective to the communities. target species they address and a little less damaging to wildlife that is poisoned through the same baiting The government can deal with the issue by process. providing a modest amount of money. We all know the difficulty the government is now in, but a The other issue that needs to be raised is the modest amount of money could be directed to that government's management of the Vermin and area. Noxious Weeds Act as we know it. We have had a series of amalgamations under this government, Foxlotto was the creation of the Minister for which led to the creation, initially, of the Tourism; the person who will wear his Department of Conservation, Forests and Lands, and tam-o' -shanter to Italy where he will live in his subsequently to the Department of Conservation retirement. He is not worried about the increasing and Environment. number of foxes in Victoria; he has developed the creative foxlotto where people are offered tickets in The ethics that were very much part of the Lands the lottery for the extermination of foxes. The people Department's management of Crown land in this who are affected by the rapid escalation in fox State have been lost in that process. We have had, numbers do not believe this is the answer. through the creation of multi-skilling practices in regional offices, the departure of many people who In a similar vein to the Minister for Tourism, the were specifically skilled in dealing with these issues Federal Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, on Crown land. Mr Crean, is providing financial inducements for young unemployed people to dig out rabbits! The One does not have to travel very far into any part of Federal Minister comes from an urban background the State to realise that that management is out of and he does not have a clue what is required in control, and if one turns specifically to problems digging out rabbit warrens in rocky country. It is not such as ragwort, St Johns wort, and blackberries, like digging out a rabbit in sandy country and it will irrespective of where you go in the State, through do nothing to stop the increasing rabbit population. the prioritisation of species, those pests which are hardest to control have the lowest priorities and Mr Acting Speaker, I understand you have some those with the highest priority are significant, but knowledge of this. You would know that rabbit are of little prevalence. warrens in rocky barriers will be a difficult target for this great army of unemployed created by the Right across the public estate the rabbit plague is out Federal and State Labor governments. I do not think of control. The problems imposed by pest species in they will be likely to dig out rabbit warrens where forest plantations are severely deterring the the warrens are deeply entrenched. It is one of those establishment of those plantations which, after all, good ideas that one thinks of when one gets up in are meant to relieve the pressure on native forests. the morning. If the Federal Minister had applied his mind to the problem he would realise that the The government has as its priority the control of number of people who will volunteer or even be weeds and vermin, but it is not providing sufficient press-ganged into this fight against the rabbit funds. Landowners adjoining Crown land are facing population of Australia is very limited. Significant problems. They must follow the provisions set out in the Vermin and Noxious Weeds I hope the government will address the problems Act. They must submit to inspections from the associated with the management of Crown land in inspectors of the Department of Conservation and the debate on this Bill. The management of the Environment who enforce the regulations but do not VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 175 public estate in nearly every corner of Victoria has to them should also apply to the Department of been found wanting. Conservation and Environment. If they do not, Parliament will be brought into disrepute. The government allocated $1.5 million to rabbit control in the newly created Mallee National Park. A In this instance, the government is asking Parliament further amount of $800 000 was allocated recently, to pass a law which, when it comes to the crunch, but the problem still escalates. The program has not the government is not prepared to apply to itself. been successful because the input and the ongoing That situation will obviously bring the activity of the previous land-holders have been lost Parliamentary process into disrepute. It has certainly and the work gangs who are travelling for brought the government into disrepute. significant periods to get to and from the park do not have the time to do the work they are supposed Mr W. D. McGRATH (Lowan) - Naturally to do. The result has been that surrounding enough the National Party is interested in Bills of landowners have had to devote more time to the this type which affect farming operations in Victoria. control of rabbits on their land. The honourable member for Syndal made a number of comments about the way this Bill could apply I have no doubt the honourable member for East differently to private landholders and officers of the Gippsland, in his contribution to the debate, will Department of Conservation and Environment. I refer to the dog problem in his area, because it is shall relate my remarks to that also. becoming worse. I have no doubt that issue will be raised when the Companion Animals Bill is finally Clause 5(2) states: debated in this place. After section 44(2) of the Vermin and Noxious Weeds I received a letter from a Mr McKenzie from Act 1958 insert - Sunbury who explains the difficulties controlling "(3) the regulations - serrated tussock in his district. The problem is that it is a native vegetation plant and its control is very (a) may impose duties or confer powers on any difficult. Mr McKenzie speaks of the use of 1080 person; poison and indicates in his letter that it is not (b) may leave anything to be determined or unusual, in the course of poisoning foxes in the approved by any person. Woodend district, also to poison neighbouring dogs. No-one has bothered to ask why the dogs were not I wonder what that means to private landowners. under the control of their owners. Does it mean departmental officers will be allowed to carry out any control programs they wish or lay The poisoning of some dogs caused a public uproar poison baits without the knowledge of landowners? in the district. It is part and parcel of the problems In many cases landowners use departmental officers associated with the Companion Animals Bill. to lay baits. I recently used them on my property to Owners of companion animals are obligated to keep lay 1080 carrot baits. Does the government expect them under control. In this instance the person who landowners to do the work? Does it empower used the 1080 bait has appeared in court to defend departmental officers to order landowners to carry his action. out certain actions? I want to know the answers.

That bodes ill for private landholders who want to The government needs to adopt a different attitude control vermin and noxious weeds. Irrespective of to its policies relating to vermin and noxious weeds how well they are used, all controls have on Crown land and land in State and national parks. disadvantages. Anyone who has used a spray near a vineyard will be aware of the antagonism that can On Tuesday evening I went to a grain conference arise. However, if sprays or baits are not used the dinner in Mildura for a short time where I spoke to a number of vermin and noxious weeds escalates. grain grower from an area near the South Australian border. He told me the water supply pipe in that I hope the Minister will consider my comments; I area had been extended one and a half miles into the understand that he will have some difficulty in Hattah-Kulkyne National Park, which adjoins his responding given the short time he has been property, and that it had recently been decided to responsible for this matter. The honourable member stop the water supply to that part of the park. To a for Warrandyte spoke about the rights and interests certain extent the water supply confined the wildlife of private landholders, and the provisions that apply to a particular area of the national park, but since the VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

176 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 19 March 1992 supply was cut off the wildlife, particularly concerned that the black wallaby would be a victim kangaroos, now go to the water supply on the of the campaign. private land. The grain grower told me that at an~ given time there can be 300 to 400 kangaroos on his A balance is needed in eradication programs. The property doing damage to growing or mature crops. real question is: what does "pest animal" mean? The Bill defines pest animal as: It is hardly fair for that to be allowed to continue. It is not the responsibility of individual farmers to care ... an animal or bird declared to be a pest animal under for large numbers of wildlife, particularly sub-section (2). kangaroos, when the problem can be solved by a change in policy by the government. ... any animal or bird - (i) which is not protected wildlife within the meaning Hamish McLelland, the Regional Director of the of the Wildlife Act 1975; and Department of Conservation and Environment in Mildura, would be on the side of the farmer because (ii) which is not the subject of an interim conservation he takes a responsible approach to the culling of order under the Flora and Fauna Guarantee Act 1988; kangaroos in the Hattah-Kulkyne National Park and I am not sure what that means. Perhaps the Minister other areas for which he is directly responsible. can explain. However, for some reason or another, a higher authority has decided to cut off the water supply in Another species of wildlife causing me concern, the national park and that has resulted in kangaroos particularly in the west Wimmera and the Western drifting onto private property. District, is the long-billed corella. Approval for the export of this species has been proposed. Although I am concerned about what will happen with the that may offer the opportunity for export dollars to newly declared national park outside be earned, it will minimise the difficulty for only a Patchewollock. Families that ran cattle and sheep on short period. Trapping can be undertaken as a that land in the past controlled vermin and noxious means of eradicating this bird, although there are weeds. However, I am concerned that the numbers some other means of eradication that are not in the of vermin and noxious weeds will increase best interests of all concerned. If the government dramatically because people will not be using the worked with those in the field, problems could be land and therefore will not be undertaking control minimised for the betterment of not only private but action. also public land. It is not simply a case of saying that land will be The Bill is a minor but confusing piece of legislation. regularly assessed and controlled. There are certain We can understand the need for pOison baits to be times when rabbits must be heavily controlled; the laid to deal with pest animals but we would like the best time is after the myxomatosis virus has gone Minister to explain the definition of "pest animal" through a rabbit population. That usually occurs in under the Wildlife Act and the Flora and Fauna late spring or summer when mosquitoes and rabbit Guarantee Act, especially in relation to further fleas are prevalent. The virus significantly reduces regulations that may be imposed under section 44. the number of rabbits, and when the virus cycle is complete one can move in and use fumigation or No-one understands more than the National Party poison baits to eradicate as many rabbits as. possible. the need to use poison baits and other methods to Of course, rabbits will never be totally eradicated; deal with pest animals, be they rabbits, kangaroos, over the years the rabbit has proven to be a hardy emus or the long-billed corella. From time to time survivor. we have problems with other species. Honourable members have only to see the Bathurst burr and the The damage that can be done by rabbits and other horehound in the Little Desert around Lake fauna can be reduced considerably with good Hindmarsh to realise the need for significant practical knowledge. On the other side of the . funding for eradication programs to ensure that equation I have received complaints about the aenal those noxious weeds are brought under control. dropping of baits into the pine plantations of Gippsland. These were designed to get rid of the We have spent 4 hours on this legislation. Yesterday rabbit population, which was causing damage to and today we debated Parliamentary reform. In that seedling pines. John McQueen of Natimuk was light I note that there is only one Labor. gove~ent member present in the Chamber. That IS damrung at VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 177 a time when the House has been debating about what happens to the householder who wants Parliamentary reform. I ask the Minister to address to put out some Rat Sak to control rats. Does this Bill the questions I have raised. give a government official permission to enter the premises of a householder and decide whether Rat Mr EVANS (Gippsland East) - The Vermin and Sak should be used to control rats on those Noxious Weeds (Poison Baits) Bill concerns me premises? I cannot see anything in the Bill that because it appears that we are handing a blank would prevent that. Someone could just bust into cheque to the government. There is little else in the one's home and say that one is not allowed to put Bill apart from the handing over to the government out Rat Sak to control rats and mice. of regulation-making powers that cover a wide range of issues relating to poison baits. While speaking about mice, I note that the honourable member for Lowan made comments Over the past fifteen to twenty years I have been about pest animals in his part of the world. I have involved in a rearguard campaign against those never seen it but I understand that periodically there forces who have been developing increasing are massive plagues of mice in the Mallee and strength in the community and who are generally Wimmera areas. One wonders what will be the called animalliberationists. I have often pondered effect of these controls if landowners have to go their motivation. Some years ago I came to the through a great deal of red tape before they can conclusion that one could best dub their attitude a institute the necessary control measures to bring WaIt Disney syndrome because it seems to me they these pests under control. have been affected by WaIt Disney cartoons and wildlife features that attribute human emotions and I know it is stretching the definition a bit but I the ability to think to animals. That is ridiculous. wonder whether things such as army worms and Nevertheless many people believe this to be the case. locusts could come under the definition of animals in this Bill. I know from experience that legislation I do not believe I am a cruel person in any sense. I can provide for extremely broad interpretations. have spent virtually all my life dealing with animals. Again we have the problem of who is to make the It might interest the House to know I have never judgment that the feelings of a locust are any less owned a gun and I have never shot a duck or any important than the feelings of a wombat or a other animal for sport. Periodically I have had to kangaroo. I suggest that if it is cruel to poison a take the life of an animal for various reasons: if the kangaroo it is equally cruel to poison a locust. animal was badly injured and needed to be put out of its misery, or similar circumstances. I can recall It is high time there was a little bit of rational some years ago farmers had to go through the thinking about these matters. The understanding traumatic experience of having to hit their bobby should be that the destruction of creatures of any calves on the head because if they had been sent to kind should not be wanton or illogical but should be market all the farmers would have received would left to the individual who has reasonable grounds on have been bills from the auctioneers. There was not which to destroy an animal - on the basis that it is much inducement to sell them. getting out of control and that it is becoming necessary to bring some species back under a degree I must say that happened some years ago. of control. Nevertheless we find ourselves in the situation today where, because of periods of disastrously low The honourable member for Syndal referred to the prices, people have no option but to get rid of their problems of wild dogs in East Gippsland. That is a stock by shooting them and burying them in great continuing and escalating problem and many a pits in the ground. From time to time the lives of farmer has been forced off his property or has had to animals have to be taken. It is not possible to go change the land use because of the inability to bring through life without becoming involved in that these pests under control. The difficulty is that the process. I suppose in that situation supply and wild dog and the native dog of this country, the demand is out of control; too many livestock dingo, are virtually indistinguishable when it comes without the demand for them. to being selective about which one should be controlled. Although the animalliberationists' hearts In many cases the controls contained in this Bill deal go out to the dingo that is destroyed, they do not with the same situation because the supply of the have any sympathy for the sheep the dingo has animals exceeds the ability of the environment to destroyed and they often overlook the large quantity deal with them. The thought goes through my mind of native wildlife that the dingo also destroys. VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

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It is all a matter of keeping these things in balance. very wide powers to make regulations to control the At one stage there was a bounty system for the incidence of poison and bait usage. control of wombats. They are fairly hannless creatures but they aid other animals in causing Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - I destruction and consuming large quantities of thank the honourable members for Warrandyte, pasture which farmers had hoped would be used by Swan Hill, Syndal, East Gippsland and the Deputy their sheep and cattle. Leader of the National Party for their contributions to this debate. The bounty on the wombat was removed because officers of the deparbnent were collecting wombat This legislation recognises that throughout Victoria scalps in fairly remote areas and claiming the bonus. from time to time there is a need to address vermin The government of the day argued that was and noxious weed problems. It also recognises that inappropriate and withdrew the bounty. I tried to most landholders in an agricultural environment use point out to the government at the time that it did baits responsibly and sensibly. not make much difference who collected the bounty, that the important thing was that the pressure of the However, the Bill is designed to deal with the animal population in those remote areas be reduced. situation in which poisons are being used and baits Obviously if the population of any animal builds up laid, and to ensure that the poiSOns and baits are too much it will move out into areas where perhaps used in a safe, sensible and responsible manner. it had not been seen before or seen only in limited numbers. It seemed to make sense to keep them The honourable member for Warrandyte raised a under reasonable control wherever they may have number of points during his contribution to the been. debate. He made a number of salient points that underline the need for this legislation. He said one of However, the government of the day did not see the the greatest problems the agricultural community logic of that argument and the bounty was removed. has faced for many years in Victoria is the spread of Since then we have had a steadily increasing rabbits. As the Minister for Food and Agriculture incidence of wombats, much to the discomfort of can verify, for many years myxomatosis was a virus many motorists who find that if they hit a wombat used effectively to deal with the infestation of on a lonely country road in the middle of the night rabbits throughout Victoria. However, they cause, if not serious damage, at least some unfortunately - as, I think, the honourable member damage to their motor vehicles. for Warrandyte said - myxomatosis as a virus is becoming of increaSingly limited use for dealing I share the sentiments of the vast majority of people. with the rabbit plague problem. Rabbits have I do not want to see animals killed unnecessarily but become reasonably resistant to myxomatosis, and their numbers must be kept in reasonable control. I hence the need for poisons and baits to be used as a do not know what the natural predators of wombats substitute for what has long proven to be an or dingos would have been before the advent of the effective way of dealing with the rabbit plague. white population, but that is a matter that we need to take into account. In circumstances where there will be an increasing resort to poisons and baits, it is important to have In many cases these controls may well have been regulations and legislation of this kind to provide exercised by the indigenous people of the continent the means whereby everyone can be assured that the who perhaps had ways and means of keeping these pOisons and baits are used in a responsible and species under some control and, if they did, it would effective way. certainly have involved some cruelty to those animals. In the absence of that we have to substitute In the second-reading speech, comment was made some other form of control and I believe the use of by the Minister, and comments have been made poison baits is absolutely essential in some during the debate by the honourable member for circumstances. Warrandyte and his colleagues, that many of the poisons used - specifically 1080 and, more recently, I hope the legislation is implemented in a the carrot bait - are non-species specific and can, if responsible and reasonable way. As I said at the you like, throw the baby out with the bath water. outset, I am disturbed that the Bill is in such general terms so that the government of the day is given The problem they are designed to address can also lead to problems with other species being affected. VERMIN AND NOXIOUS WEEDS (POISON BAITS) BILL

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Therefore, it is important to have a means whereby declare an animal a "pest animal" than he would be regulations can be made to prevent the laying of concerned about the ability to declare something to baits in a manner that will adversely affect fauna be "vermin". That power is not widely or which is not the target of the baiting or poisoning inappropriately used and is designed to deal with campaign. That is the purpose of having legislation animals which cause problems to the environment of this kind. or agriculture but which would not normally be declared "vermin". As the honourable member for A number of specific concerns have been raised Gippsland East will be aware, many animals including reference to the provisions in clause 4 throughout the State are fann or domestic animals whereby authority is provided for authorised which have gone into the wild and which must be officers to enter land to make searches and dealt with in a special way - for example, feral inspections. Land protection officers presently have goats and cats. The definition is provided in the Bill the power to enter properties to inspect for the to deal with those types of animals. presence of vermin and weeds but the government considers it is important to clarify in this legislation I thank the honourable members who have taken that, rather than resort to those powers, there should part in the second-reading debate. It is important be clear authority to inspect the way in which baits that we recognise the damage that can be done to and poisons are being handled. That is the simple agriculture and the environment by plagues and purpose of the power provided for in clause 4. infestations of animals and weeds, and that there should be some parameters within which the Clause 5 refers to the people who are authorised to fanning community and conservation officers can inspect; certainly it is the intention of the ensure that the poisons or the baits are used or laid government that they be authorised Department of appropriately and safely.This Bill addresses those Conservation and Environment officers, and concerns. predominantly land protection officers or, in some circumstances, fisheries and wildlife officers. They Motion agreed to. will be authorised to enter properties to examine whether the regulations providing for the laying of Read second time. baits and the use of poisons are being used appropriately. Committed.

The honourable member for Swan Hill and, I think, Committee the Deputy Leader of the National Party referred to the definition of "pest animal" as contained in the Clauses 1 to 3 agreed to. Bill; also, the honourable member for Gippsland East raised concerns about that definition. It is Clause 4 important that such a definition exist rather than having to rely on the definition of "vermin", which Mr HONEYWOOD (Warrandyte) - The concern has a rather specific and tight legal interpretation; the opposition has with clause 4 relates to the that definition has a range of quite severe powers of an authorised officer. The specific concern consequences for any species declared as vermin. is that: Some categories of animals would not be covered by the current definition of "vermin". For example, An authorised officer may enter land (whether feral animals - cats, pigeons and other species - enclosed or not) and may make any searches or which could affect agriculture or the environment inspections that the officer considers necessary to would not be regarded as "vermin" under the ascertain whether regulations made under section current interpretation. 44(l)(ac) are being complied with.

It is inappropriate to declare those animals as The clause envisages additional powers contained vermin; therefore, there is a need for a definition of under the principal Act in so far as the rights of "pest animal" that excludes those animals classified authorised officers are concerned. The officers in as wildlife or defined under the Flora and Fauna practice could enter the family residence on the farm Guarantee Act. or any of the outbuildings.

The honourable member for Gippsland East should I shall be seeking an assurance from the Minister as be no more concerned that there is a power to to the extent of that power in practice to ascertain DAIRY INDUSTRY BILL

180 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992 under what circumstances the officer will be allowed The Dairy Industry Act 1984 defines the objectives, to enter the family home or outbuildings to inspect functions and powers of the VOlA. baits the owner is setting, and to determine what baits should be set. The Victorian Dairy Industry Authority was established under the Dairy Industry Act in 1977 to I seek an assurance from the Minister that the matter run the market milk pool system. The VOlA can be resolved between here and another place. purchases milk from dairy farmers through the factories acting as agents, and arranges for its Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) -It transport and sale to processors. The net proceeds of is not the intention of the Bill to deal with a domestic this transaction, less the authority's administrative, situation, it is to deal with pests and animals that quality assurance and marketing costs, represents have been declared vermin because of their effect on the pool which the VOlA in turn pays out equitably the environment or on agricultural activity, such as a to all farmers supplying milk to factories. As mouse or rabbit plague. provided under the Act, each May and November the VOlA determines milk price margins for all Power exists already under the legislation for industry sectors from farm gate to retail. The Prices officers to enter properties to inspect for the Commissioner provides advice on these presence of vermin and weeds. That power gives determinations to the Minister who can either accept those land protection and authorised officers power or reject them. to inspect and to issue instructions to have the problem dealt with. The VOlA also has responsibility for quality assurance for both market milk and manufactured The power under clause 4 is designed to add to that dairy products, and is permitted to engage in brand power in the context of compliance with the and generic marketing activities. The government is regulations for the laying of baits and the poisoning introducing this Bill following its consideration of of animals which have been declared pests. the 1989 report of the Public Bodies Review Committee (PBRC) on the Victorian Dairy Industry The intention is not to intrude on a domestic Authority. The PBRC report recommended changes situation, it is clearly one to deal with an agricultural to the Dairy Industry Act aimed at promoting or plague situation. greater efficiency and competitiveness in the dairy industry. Clause agreed to; clauses 5 and 6 agreed to. The PBRC recommendations were subjected to very Reported to House without amendment. extensive industry consultations, leading finally to the proposals contained in the Dairy Industry Bill Passed remaining stages. 1992.

DAIRY INDUSTRY BILL Forces inside and outside the Victorian milk industry are adding increased competitive pressure Second reading and driving the need to reduce regulations. These forces include: Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and Agriculture) - I move: increased competition from New Zealand as a result of the closer economic relations agreement; That this Bill be now read a second time. the Commonwealth government decision on the The Dairy Industry Bill has two main purposes: recommendations of last year's industry commission inquiry into the Australian dairy (i) reform the market milk system, especially industry. A decision is expected soon. A decision through a reduction in price controls at wholesale to reduce the current level of assistance provided and retailleve1s; and under national arrangements for manufacture milk could impact significantly on the Victorian (ii) to reconstitute the Victorian Dairy Industry market milk industry; Authority (VOlA). DAIRY INDUSTRY BILL

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 181

reviews in other States which mainly concern The review panel will be chaired by the Prices possible reductions in market milk regulations, Commissioner and will include the Director-General especially at wholesale and retail levels; of Food and Agriculture, the chairperson of the VDIA and a representative of dairy industry the industry becoming more market oriented, and employees. in so doin~ putting pressure on existing price controls; REVIEW OF MILK PRICE DETERMINATIONS

new technology, for example, the development of The Bill reduces the government's role in reviewing improved UHT milks and long life fresh milks. milk prices. The Prices Commissioner will be responsible for approving or rejecting six-monthly It is thus important that steps are taken to ensure milk price de terminations made by the VDIA. that the industry can maintain its competitive edge However, following industry representations about and be in the best position to respond to these this, some government involvement will be retained. challenges. If the Prices Commissioner disapproves a determination, the Minister for Food and The Bill takes into account, as much as possible, the Agriculture, the chairperson of the VDIA and the concerns raised in earlier industry consultations and, Prices Commissioner will meet to further consider importantly, the need for industry sectors to have the determination. As a result of this meeting the time to adjust to the more competitive environment determination will be approved or the VDIA will be that will be a consequence of changes to the Act. directed to amend it.

Apart from improvements to the wording aimed at VDIA MARKETING ROLE bringing the legislation more into line with current practice, the Bill retains current arrangements for In the past marketing of white milk has been pricing to the farmer, and supply and pricing to the dominated by the VDIA. In a highly regulated processor. environment in which key marketing variables such as pricing and distribution are controlled a I shall now discuss briefly the main aspects of the centralised marketing authority is appropriate. Bill. But the industry has matured and there is a rapidly REDUCING PRICE CONTROLS changing marketing environment in Victoria and around the country. It is likely that the viability of A central element of the Bill is the reduction in centrally controlled brand marketing will be post-processor milk price controls. All maximum increasingly challenged. price controls from the processor to the retailer­ that is, maximum wholesale, semi-wholesale and For this reason, and the fact that the Bill supports a retail pricing - will be abolished. The Bill will also reduction in price controls as well as the abolition of abolish minimum retail price controls on all all remaining distribution zonin~ there needs to be a flavoured milks, induding UHT flavoured milks. progressive transfer of VDIA marketing activities to the private sector. To allow time for industry sectors to adjust to these changes, minimum price controls on all plain and Thus the Bill incorporates a sunset provision which modified white milks from the processor to the from 1 January 1994 abolishes the relevant VDIA retailer will be retained for the present. objectives and functions that permit current generic and brand marketing activities. There will be a non-legislative requirement for the VDIA to issue recommended retail prices as a guide The sunset provision is to make sure that the to consumers about the prices that they can expect to industry tackles the issue of a centralised marketing pay. function. Proposals will need to be developed and finalised prior to 1994 on the best way to transfer The Bill establishes a review panel, which will VDIA marketing responsibilities to industry. The monitor the impact of the new pricing arrangements government will consider the removal or alteration and, commencing one year after the Act is of the sunset provision in light of the endorsed proclaimed, conduct a review of these arrangements. proposal. DAIRY INDUSTRY BILL

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I have had industry representations supporting members with expertise in milk production (for formation of a private company, with shareholders example, dairy farming) and one member with comprising milk processors, farmers and the VDIA, expertise in industrial relations. which would assume responsibility for the control of the VDIA brands. Under this proposal brand The industry selection committee will be appointed ownership would continue to reside with the VDIA. by the Minister and will consist of three members, including one representative from each of the United The Bill provides the VDIA with the power to Dairyfarmers of Victoria, the Milk Processors participate in limited companies or form joint Association of Victoria and the Victorian Dairy ventures, thus allowing flexibility in the exercise of Products Association. The selection committee will VDIA functions, including marketing. Industry nominate its own chairperson. The Department of proposals can be considered in this context. Food and Agriculture will be available to provide administrative support to the committee. I am encouraging the industry to put forward a fully detailed proposal which the government could then The new board structure will improve the consider. effectiveness and efficiency of the VDIA since members are selected on the basis of expertise QUALITY ASSURANCE FUNCTION OF THE VOlA relevant to the operations of the VDIA. This will encourage them to work in the best interests of the The Bill provides for the more efficient industry as a whole. administration of quality assurance standards. Many provisions are updated and simplified. GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS

Administration of quality assurance will be The VDIA will continue to be required to present its streamlined by setting hygiene and quality annual report to Parliament through the Minister. In standards in codes of practice (where these are not addition it will be required to present an annual included under the Food Act) rather than by report to relevant industry organisations and answer regulation. Many of the standards to be used are in questions on its performance. national codes. The VDIA will be reqUired to prepare a corporate Standards under the Food Act 1984 will be used plan with a five-year horizon, setting out its where possible. The Bill provides for the corporate objectives and strategies for achieving appointment of VDIA staff as authorised officers those objectives. In preparing its corporate plan the under the Food Act. This will avoid duplication in VDIA will take account of industry views. administration. The proposal to report to industry organisations and The VDIA will assume quality assurance for dairy to prepare corporate plans will improve VDIA goat and dairy sheep milk and milk products. It is accountability to the government and to industry. expected that these industries will fund their own quality assurance through licence fees. All of the The objectives, functions and powers of the VDIA dairy industry, including cow, goat and sheep will be simplified and conflicting elements removed. interests, will benefit from this initiative through Funds entrusted by the VDIA to authorised agents minimisation of health risks arising from blends of for payments to farmers must be secured by the goat or sheep milk products with cow milk products. VDIA.

RECONSTITIITION OF THE VDIA BOARD The vesting provisiOns have been removed. However the VDIA will retain the power to direct a The VDIA board will be reconstituted using broadly factory to deliver milk to a processor nominated by similar principles to those applied by the the VDIA. The requirement for all milk used in the Commonwealth to member selection of its statutory manufacture of market milk in Victoria to have been authority boards. The VDIA board will be reduced accepted by the VDIA will be retained. from ten to eight members with the Minister appointing the chairperson and the government I commend the Bill to the House. member. The other six members will be appointed by the Minister on the recommendation of an Debate adjourned on motion of industry selection committee, and must include two Mr W. D. McGRATH (Lowan). STA TE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION (AMENDMENT) BILL

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 183

Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and licensing. The Act requires that all installation work Agriculture) - I move: be carried out by a licensed electrical worker.

That the debate be adjourned until Thursday, 2 April. Current types of fire alarm, burglar alarm, computer and telecommunication systems that now dominate Mr W. D. McGRATH (Lowan) - Mr Speaker, on the marketplace were not foreseen when the the question of time, two weeks may be adequate, definitions were originally framed. Much of this new but the Dairy Industry Bill is wide in its application equipment operates at a very low voltage and poses and involves producers, processors and retailers. I no significant electrical hazard. ask the Minister for Food and Agriculture whether he is prepared to grant additional time if that is In addition the micro-economic reform process has needed in order to consult with all the parties before also identified certain work practices that are commencing debate on the Bill. considered to pose no Significant electrical hazard because of the very low voltage levels involved. This Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and Agriculture) includes work that can be performed on a daily basis (By leave) - I accept the comment made by the widely throughout the industry by instrument honourable member for Lowan that the Dairy mechanics and mechanical fitters. Examples are the Industry Bill is wide-ranging and complex. I am installation of temperature sensing equipment such happy to negotiate on a reasonable basis for extra as thermocouples and digital instrumentation. These time. changes in work practices have meant that the Act will require amendment to accommodate a shift Motion agreed to and debate adjourned until from equipment that was previously pneumatic or Thursday, 2 April. mechanical to equipment that is now electrical/ electronic and operates at a very low STATE ELECTRICITY COMMISSION voltage. Again this work is currently subject to the (AMENDMENT) BILL provisions of section 46.

Second reading A nationally uniform approach to regulation is also a key element of micro-economic reform and the Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - I changes proposed to align Victorian practice with move: that of the other States would assist this aim.

That this Bill be now read a second time. A number of anomalies and deficiencies have been shown to exist with the use of the current The State Electricity Commission Act 1958 has been definitions. These are partly the result of the the subject of a number of amendments over recent introduction of new items of equipment and work years that have provided benefits for both the practices developed in particular industries. An electrical industry and the public. The further example is the need to allow for the servicing and amendments now proposed have been brought maintenance by unlicensed trained personnel of about as a result of a concern of the industry about fixed appliances, such as cooking ranges or exhaust the restrictive nature of the current licence fans, after these appliances are disconnected from provisions that act as a disincentive to investment. supply.

At the conference of Commonwealth and State Using the new provisions provided by the Bill the labour Ministers on 25 May 1990, Commonwealth, commission will be able to exempt certain State and Territory Ministers agreed to a number of industries, practices or individuals from the need to measures designed to reform licensing of electrical comply with any part of the Act or regulations for mechanics. These changes are intended to assist in electrical safety. An example of this is the intention the achievement of national uniformity and to formalise the current responsibility that has micro-economic reform while maintaining safety historically been undertaken by railway and standards. tramway personnel in relation to electrical apparatus used in connection with operating and The Act contains provisions for the making of maintaining the public transport network, and regulations to prescribe the standards and methods similarly the electrical apparatus that is used for of electrical installation work and to set the broadcasting and telecommunications. qualifications of the electrical workers by means of FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) BILL

184 ASSEMBLY Thursday. 19 March 1992

Clause 6 contains proposed section 56(l)(d), which FISHERIES (FURTHER AMENDMENT) provides power to exempt by regulation the BILL licensing requirement for electrical wiring work to be carried out by supply authority personnel such as Second reading linesmen while carrying out the temporary restoration of power after a supply failure. lhis Mr HARROWFIELD (Minister for Finance) - I work would be within the scope of their duties and move: would be carried out only after appropriate training. Similarly, the installation of certain items of That this Bill be now read a second time. specialist equipment such as a hospital CAT scanner frequently requires the expertise of the manufacturer The purpose of the Bill is to make three amendments who provides specialist (unlicensed) technicians to to the Fisheries Act 1968. undertake the installation of this equipment. lhis is particularly so in the case of equipment The first amendment proposed in the Bill concerns manufactured overseas and installed locally by a the introduction of a levy of $150 on all master specialist technician sent to Victoria by the overseas fishermen's licences and fish processors licences and company. increasing the levy currently paid by abalone licence holders to $500. Revenue collected by this levy will There is an expectation that the legislation will be be paid directly to the Victorian Fishing Industry amended as part of the micro-economic reform Federation, which sought the levy as a means of process. The commission has indicated that the providing additional funding to enable it to better proposed amendments will assist in bringing serve the fishing industry. Victoria into line with practices in other States and improve the interstate reciprocity of licences and The government supported the formation of the therefore support micro-economic reform. Victorian Fishing Industry Federation in 1989 to represent the interests of fishermen, processors and The proposed amendments that have been the fish retailers. There are significant issues facing the subject of consultation with industry and concerned fishing industry and the federation is finding that its bodies over the past two years provide the flexibility current funding is insufficient to enable it to deliver needed to deal with future demands. The the quality of service necessary in addressing these government is obliged to keep pace with current and issues. developing technologies and provide a sound basis to facilitate development. These amendments go The federation has actively represented its members towards achieving this aim. in meetings with State and Commonwealth governments to develop plans for the long-term A clause to amend section 468 of the Local management of the south-east trawl fishery and the Government Act 1958 was deleted in another place. Bass Strait shark fishery. In the report of its recently The imminent coming into operation of provisions completed inquiry into the allocation of fish of the Local Government Act 1989 made that clause resources in Victoria's bays and inlets the Natural redundant. Consequential amendments were made Resources and Environment Committee of to the long title. Parliament has also called for substantial input from the federation on behalf of its members. A strong Further amendments were made in another place to and adequately resourced federation is important to clauses 3 and 6. The amendment to clause 3 enable the fishing industry to be properly addressed the increase in fire risk associated with represented now and in the future. some types of electrical equipment; the amendment to clause 6 was for drafting clarity. The federation's major current source of funding comes from a 15 per cent levy which applies to most I commend the Bill to the House. categories of commercial fishing licences. lhis collects about $90 000 a year. Imposition of a levy of Debate adjourned on motion of Mr PLOWMAN $150 on master fishermen and processors and (Evelyn). increasing the levy paid by abalone licence holders to $500 will increase revenue to the federation to an Debate adjourned until Thursday, 2 April. amount in the order of $240000. The levy is strongly supported by the federation which has broad representation across the industry. ABORIGINAL LAND (MANA TUNGA LAND) BILL

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 185

Secondly, the Bill provides for an additional penalty and cultural significance. The Bill's objectives are in for the illegal taking of abalone. Despite increased accordance with recommendation 338 of the Royal surveillance by the Department of Conservation and Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody Environment and the good work of the Abalone which states: Task Force, abalone poaching continues to be a problem. Organised gangs of poachers are at times "that as an interim step all lands held under leasehold taking large catches, and it is apparent that the and being former aboriginal reserve or mission land existing level of penalties is not providing an and being now held for or on behalf of aboriginal adequate deterrent. people, be forthwith transferred under inalienable freehold title to the present leaseholder(s) pending This Bill introduces a per fish penalty as an further consideration by the aboriginal people as to the additional penalty. This will be set at the rate of a appropriate aboriginal body which should thereafter half penalty unit for each abalone that is taken above hold the title to such land". the amateur bag limit of ten a day. The present leaseholder over a part of this land and Per fish penalties are used in other States for such the appropriate body to whom the Crown grant offences. The level of the penalty will give the courts should issue is the Murray Valley Aboriginal the opportunity of imposing a penalty that should Co-operative Limited. deter offenders from repeating the offence. The Manatunga land and adjacent land along the The third amendment concerns Tamboon Inlet river has for many years been a camping area for which is part of the Croajingolong National Park in Aborigines living on the outer perimeter of East Gippsland. In 1985 the Land Conservation Robinvale. In the past it has been a common Council recommended that this small inlet should occurrence for Aborigines dispossessed from the no longer be open to commercial fishing, and the land in Victoria and across Australia to camp near government has accepted this advice. Tamboon Inlet rural towns. In 1958 the former Aborigines Welfare is normally open for commercial fishing only from Board asked the secretary of the Department of 1 May until 14 October each year and produces on Crown Lands and Survey to set asid.e an area of land average less than 30 tonnes of fish for commercial at Robinvale for an aboriginal transitional housing markets. Only four commercial fishermen hold settlement. The land agreed to and known as licences to fish in Tamboon Inlet and they all have Manatunga was reserved for this purpose from 1960 entitlements to fish in other waters. to 1968. About twelve houses were constructed based on the policy of the day of assimilating the I commend the Bill to the House. Aborigines into the township and other areas. In 1968, the State Ministry for Aboriginal Affairs Debate adjourned on motion of Mr COLEMAN decided to abandon the Manatunga reserve, (Syndal). although only months before around $15 000 had been expended through the drought relief program Debate adjourned until Thursday, 2 April. for the construction of roadworks, kerbs and channelling. ABORIGINAL LAND (MANATUNGA LAND) BILL Further, this action was taken without putting in place alternative accommodation, resulting in Second reading lengthy delays before the last aboriginal family had left the Manatunga reserve. Mr ROPER (Treasurer) - I move: While again being dispossessed from the land, That this Bill be now read a second time. aboriginal attachment to the Manatunga land remained, and in 1975 representations were made on The Bill provides for the return of the Manatunga behalf of the Murray Valley Aboriginal Co-operative land, an area of nearly 4 hectares of Crown land, to Ltd and the Shire of Swan Hill to obtain tenure over the Robinvale aboriginal community. the land. This was required to provide for the transfer of an aboriginal tile manufacturing This Bill further demonstrates the government's operation coordinated by the Shire of Swan Hill and commitment to return to the aboriginal people of to assist in further expansion into other concrete Victoria those Crown lands which have an historical manufacturing products. GRAIN ELEVATORS (AMENDMENT) BILL

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In 1979 the Murray Valley Aboriginal Co-operative other existing encumbrances, estates or interests to Ltd was granted a 21-year lease. Agreement has now which the land may be subject. been reached between the government and the Murray Valley Aboriginal Co-operative Ltd to issue The reason for preventing the Supreme Court from a Crown grant of the land to the cooperative on awarding compensation in this case is to enable a condition that the land be used for aboriginal clear and unencumbered Crown grant to be made. cultural purposes. To do this existing interests and encumbrances over the land must be extinguished, and all claims for The Bill also provides that tenures and other compensation which may be based on them must be authorities under the Mineral Resources prevented. Development Act 1990, the Extractive Industries Act 1966 and the Petroleum Act 1958 shall not be I commend the Bill to the House. granted except with the consent of the Murray Valley Aboriginal Co-operative Ltd and subject to Debate adjourned on motion of Mr JOHN such terms and conditions as it determines. The Bill (Bendigo East). includes a provision which overrides any approved recommendation of the Land Conservation Council. Debate adjourned until Thursday, 2 April.

The Land Conservation Council's recommendation GRAIN ELEVATORS (AMENDMENT) is that the land be uncommitted land and that it be BILL withheld from sale, and be protected forest under the provisions of the Forests Act 1958. Second reading

Members will note that the map which accompanies Mr SPYKER (Minister for Transport) - I move: the Mallee area review final recommendations suggests that the land is recommended for That this Bill be now read a second time. permanent reservation as a bushland reserve. This is not so. The Grain Elevators Act 1958 empowers the Grain Elevators Board (GEB) to acquire, construct, operate The Land Conservation Council was contacted on and maintain elevators and associated equipment this issue and has advised that the scale of the map for the purpose of handling grain in bulk. has made it appear that the Manatunga land was included in the area to be bushland reserve. In fact, The GEB has the capacity to store about 5 million the bushland reserve lies to the south of the tonnes of grain annually, and until recently it has Manatunga land and is much smaller than the area operated in a rigidly regulated environment, and has shown on the map. The written description clearly handled both export and domestic wheat for the does not include the Manatunga land. Australian Wheat Board, as well as other grain for other marketers in sufficient volume that much of I make the following statement under section 85(5) this storage capacity has been utilised. of the Constitution Act 1975 as to the reasons why clause 9 of the Bill alters or varies that section. Since 1989, with the passage of the Commonwealth Wheat Marketing Act, which deregulated the Clause 9 of the Bill is intended to alter or vary domestic wheat market, the GEB has lost much of its section 85 of the Constitution Act 1975 to the extent traditional grain business. In addition, there has necessary to prevent the Supreme Court from been a severe downturn in grain production in awarding compensation in respect of anything done Victoria, and many growers have resorted to under or arising out of the Act. on-farm storage of grain, reducing even further the GEB's volume. Clause 8 of the Bill provides that no compensation is payable in respect of anything done under or arising In the 1991 trading year the GEB used only 36 per out of the Act. cent of its storage capacity. This has left the GEB with substantial excess storage and handling The Bill authorises the grant on behalf of the Crown capacity and, in the immediate future, very little of land to the Murray Valley Aboriginal prospect of capturing new grain business. Co-operative Ltd and extinguishes an existing Crown lease held by that cooperative, and also any GRAIN ELEVATORS (AMENDMENT) BILL

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To address these problems, the GEB has been The Bill will allow the GEB to negotiate actively seeking new business opporhmities, arrangements on a commercial basis, with sufficient including the handling of commodities like contractual flexibility to enable it to be competitive woodchips, cement clinker, mineral sands and so on. and to quickly win new business. The GEB would be able to utilise existing facilities and staff to handle, store and outload commodities If the Bill does not proceed the consequences of the such as these. GEB being unable to use its capacity to the fullest and to earn additional revenue in the process will be In addition, I established a working party late last felt in many sectors of the economy and the year to consider the role and structure of the GEB, community. but irrespective of this action, immediate attention is required now to allow the GEB to seek new sources For the grain industry, the GEB's inability to handle of revenue. these commodities could mean a reduction in the capability of the GEB to continue to provide a grain The GEB, if it had the power, could secure beneficial handling service consistent with the high standards new contracts for non-grain commodities in the very achieved to date. near future. Discussions have taken place with at least three potential clients for the handling of large For Victoria, it will mean that existing facilities will quantities of bulk products. sit idle at a time when their use could provide a substantial benefit to the community and revenue However, the GEB is not empowered to handle any for the GEB. It could also mean the further loss of commodity that is not grain within the natural jobs in the grain handling sector. meaning of the word "grain" and so it is not possible for the GEB to legally handle any of the commodities The cyclical nature of its business means that the which are presently on offer and which would allow GEB is well placed to develop new non-grain the board to more effectively utilise its capacity. business to even out the peaks and troughs in its activity. The Bill will enable the GEB to seek out new business on a commercial basis with sufficient On another business front, the GEB has an excellent freedom so that it can respond to market forces and reputation overseas as an expert in grain storage and enter new contracts without any doubt about having handling facilities and methods. the necessary power. The GEB will be able to take advantage of changes in the marketplace and, by Recently the GEB cooperated with the Australian having power to provide consultancy services and to Wheat Board to build new silo complexes in Upper sell intellectual property, will be able to take Egypt. Indeed, following the successful completion commercial advantage of its expertise in handling of these silos, the GEB was directly approached by bulk commodities. the Egyptian government to ensure that it would be involved in the next project as a subcontractor with Grain handling agencies in other mainland Sta tes the Australian Wheat Board to construct further silos have addressed the issue of limited handling powers at Asyut in Upper Egypt. Other overseas projects are with all except the Grain Elevators Board having the in prospect. power to handle commodities other than grain. This leaves the GEB at a distinct disadvantage. The Bill will allow the GEB to obtain the full benefit from participating in these projects, and the skills In addition, the Bill will bring the GEB into line with and reputation of its staff will be further enhanced. the practices applied to other government agencies The GEB will be well placed to develop and sell its in respect of tendering and contract approval. This tedmical expertise to others, further improving its will further aid the GEB in its commercial dealings. financial position, as these projects will allow the GEB to recover fixed costs that would not nonnally The Bill will not affect the capacity of the GEB to be recovered from grain handling revenue. handle its core commodities and safeguards will be in place to ensure that the high standards of Analyses to date show that, unless the GEB can cleanliness, hygiene and service to its customers, for obtain new business, its debt level will grow and which the GEB is renowned, are maintained. losses will be incurred without prospect of reversal. They also show that the GEB will for the first time have need to call on the public purse for subSidy. ADJOURNMENT

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The Bill also amends the Grain Elevators Act to The amendments contained in the Bill will make a allow the board to fix charges with the approval of substantial contribution to the success of the GEB in the Minister for Transport after consultation with the future years and will assist to achieve this objective. Minister for Finance. I commend the Bill to the House. Under its Act, the GEB is required to make by-laws covering a number of matters, including charges for Debate adjourned on motion of Mr GUDE the handling of grain for parties other than its major (Hawthorn), clients. These matters are currently covered by GEB by-law No. 2 (SR No. 311/1977) which relates to Mr SPYKER (Minister for Transport) - I move: charges for the use of board services and facilities. This by-law is to sunset on 30 June this year. The That the debate be adjourned until Thursday, 2 April. process of investigating the remaking of the by-law has necessarily raised the issue of whether it is Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - On the question of appropriate that the GEB fix its charges in this time, Mr Speaker, the Bill makes important fashion. It is important also to note in this context amendments to the Grain Elevators Act and on that Parliamentary Counsel has advised that the Act behalf of the opposition spokesman I ask the contains insufficient power to remake the by-law in Minister to give an assurance that more time will be its current form. Even if such power were included allowed if required. in the Act by amendment, strong doubts would exist over the acceptability to the Legal and Mr SPYKER (Minister for Transport) (By leave) - Constitutional Committee of the Parliament of a It is an important Bill and I give an undertaking that statutory rule which allows a statutory body to set additional time will be granted if required by the its own charges as long as the charges do not exceed opposition. a prescribed maximum amount. The alternative would be to include power to make a by-law Motion agreed to and debate adjourned until prescribing fixed charges, which would require Thursday, 2 April. frequent amendment to keep pace with constantly changing commercial conditions. ADJOURNMENT

The present prescriptive arrangement for charging Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and in relation to its services is not in the interests of the· Agriculture) - I move: board or the public. Such a requirement notifies the board's competitors, through the preparation and That the House do now adjourn. advertisement of a regulatory impact statement, of its commercial marketing decisions and strategies Crime in Victoria and gives competitors the right to object and to take advantage of that knowledge. The effect of the Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - I direct a matter to the amendment is to ensure that all charges are Premier relating to the way the government has established and fixed in a commercially responsive acted improperly in stamping out crime. I ask the manner. Premier to investigate the issue I raise and to supply me with a suitable response. I seek an assurance This method of fixing charges is consistent with that from the Premier that the practice I shall raise has used by other statutory agencies such as the State ceased under her administration. Electricity Commission, the Gas and Fuel Corporation, the Public Transport Corporation and In 1982 the then Premier, the honourable member Victoria's port authorities. for Bundoora, was reported in an article in the Age as saying that he was concerned about the Since the board was created in 1934, its core business development of crime. He went on to say: has been to store and handle grain. It has done this creditably for more than 55 years. The government's Breaches of the law uncovered by Royal Commissions, objective is to ensure that the board continues to government inquiries and the State's Corporate Affairs provide a high-quality, efficient and hygienic central Office would be pursued by the Victorian government grain handling capability for Victoria. without fear or favour. ADJOURNMENT

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They were strong words and they came on the heels The memo lists the companies concerned. It of criticism about the operations of the Builders continues: Labourers Federation (BLF). The Premier wanted to make a powerful statement indicating that as Mc Phillips, the then Director of Public Prosecutions, in Premier he intended to get on with the job and addition to declaring the brief to be viable, had stamp out crime. described it as an excellent brief and complimented us on the quality of its presentation. Mc Phillips made He makes specific mention in that article of references to a verbally expressed opinion of Mc Daryl white-collar crime. Over many years honourable Dawson (as he then was) when as Solicitor-General he members have been treated to a number of had told Mc Willee that the North Deborah matter was utterances from that person, who claimed he was too old to prosecute. lilywhite and pursued every crim up every burrow. However, that was not the case in the so-called That is a police document prepared and made North Deborah matter, which was referred to on available to the then Attorney-General of this State. Tuesday by the honourable member for Glen With full knowledge the then Attorney-General Waverley. forwarded a directive to the police in New South Wales and had a similar inquiry stopped. I have a copy of a telex dated 23 November 1982 and addressed to the Officer in Charge of the Fraud Investigation of robbery of journalist's Squad in Sydney. The telex was forwarded to the office Chief Commissioner of Police in New South Wales and it states: Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National Party) - I direct to the attention of the Minister for Attention Sen. Detective Kim Cook, Corporate Affairs Police and Emergency Services a break-in and Office. robbery at the office of Ms Tess Lawrence. Ms Lawrence has given me a statement detailing her By direction of the Attorney-General for the State of comments, and I want the Minister to ensure that a Victoria the matters relating to CSIDEI and proper police investigation is carried out. Uewellyn-Dance are to be withdrawn in Sydney Ms Lawrence states: tomorrow. Requesting your assistance. During the weekend of September 7-81991 my Relevant documents being forwarded by special Collingwood offices were broken into, ransacked and delivery. "sensitive" documents and television footage stolen.

P. H. Bennett. Amongst this stolen material were files dealing with the VEDC and other government instrumentalities and Det. Ch. Supt. organisations - crucial to an investigative documentary and articles being prepared for television The Attorney-General of Victoria at that time was and print release - as well as my defence against a none other than the Premier of the day, honest John defamation action brought against me by the then Cain. The matter had been brought to the attention Premier, John Cain. of the government and data had been collected by the Victoria Police to the point where a prosecution These files contained documents, interviews, research was to proceed. The very person who said he would and statements indicating that certain officers of the chase without fear or favour any group involved in Cain government were both responsible for, and/or misdemeanours formally instructed the police not to cognisant of fraudulent and improper activities in their pursue the matter. dealings both within and without the VEDC and that these fraudulent and corrupt activities were I also refer to a copy of a police document dated administered under government jurisdiction and that 21 November 1982 and signed by Detective Senior the former Premier, John Cain, was privy to certain and Constable Lorne Campbell. It is a file memo in many of these conducts and for the sake of political respect of the North Deborah matter, and it states: expediency failed to expunge both the practice and the practitioners of such conducts. My continued complaints concerning the unlawful withdrawal of charges against ... Further that these documents indicate that certain officers both of and within the government, indeed in ADJOURNMENT

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the political, bureaucratic and public spheres, did which he is using as a vehicle to make imputations knowingly collude in these fraudulent, corrupt and against other persons. improper activities and in so doing did fraudulently represent their role and the people of Victoria, thereby Mr McNAMARA - I seek from the Minister for securing for certain people an unfair advantage and Police and Emergency Services an assurance that the moneys. documents and television footage that were stolen in the break-in be investigated so that those persons Further that these documents and files indicate that involved in this matter of some political sensitivity John Cain and certain of his Ministers, including can be dealt with. The document continues: Fordham, Kennan, Jolly, McCutcheon, Crabb and others including Batchelor, Landeryou contrived and Further that additional moneys were poured into colluded in such activities through direct action and meritless VEOC-funded ventures simply as a device to compliance through inaction. curb public disclosure prior to the 1988 elections.

Further that these documents indicate improper and Knoxfield intersection illegal activities including "kickbacks" and misuse of Public Service staff and that certain members of such Mrs HIRSH (Wantirna) - I direct to the attention staff were intimidated and coerced by threat of of the Minister for Transport the intersection of expulsion to acquiesce and officiate at such improper Gilbert Park Drive and Femtree Gully Road in activities. Knoxfield. As the Minister is not in the House I ask the Minister for Food and Agriculture to pass on the Further that these documents indicate a deliberate ma tter to him. suppression and cover-up of these misdemeanours and reveal specific instruction by John Cain and others I received a copy of a petition from 120 businesses in including Kennan and Crabb in relation to the VEOC the vicinity requesting the installation of traffic and associated activities prior to the ''Red October" lights at that intersection. They believe their 1988 general election and after the election. efficiency is being compromised because of the difficulties faced by cars turning out of Gilbert Park Further that these instructions directed that police Drive into Femtree Gully Road at the T-intersection. investigations into the VEOC and associated activities be halted prior to ''Red October" for fear of Knox council priorities do not include lights at jeopardising the Cain government's re-election chances. Gilbert Park Drive. In fact the council priorities This cover-up including the waiving and destruction of passed at a recent meeting were for lights at the certain records as well as the falsifying of historical intersection of Henderson and Femtree Gully roads, records. Further, that the intent and spirit of FoI was which is 500 to 800 metres west of Gilbert Park Drive. abused and misrepresented in such destruction. Moreover the State of Victoria is now devoid of correct Lights are needed at Henderson Road but two historical and political data to which its people are matters should be considered. The first is the urgent entitled. need for lights at the Gilbert Park Drive and Femtree Gully Road intersection to facilitate the efficiency of The SPEAKER - Order! It is becoming the 120 businesses in that area. There have been 24 increasingly clear that the Leader of the National accidents there in recent months. Party is using the words of another person to make imputations against members of this House and The other matter is the urgent need to build a bridge members of another place. It appears to the Chair in Henderson Road at the same time as the lights are that this is an unreasonable step to take in the brief installed to provide access from Henderson Road to time the honourable member has to speak. Kelletts Road, Rowville. It will be a major through road for business in the industrial section of I have been attempting to find a precedent on this Rowville, just south of Femtree Gully Road. The matter and I caution the Leader of the National council has not mentioned the bridge in its Party against using the words of another person or submission. using the statements of another to say things that he would not be at liberty to use in his own right. I ask All of these works are urgent and require funding him to come to the point of the government action but Gilbert Park Drive should be put on the agenda he seeks rather than simply quoting a document, as a priority. I received this petition and made representations to the Knox council on behalf of the ADJOURNMENT

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120 local businesses who believe their efficiency is Mrs HIRSH - Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word being seriously compromised, but, amazingly, I "maligning". have not heard anything from the council in response. The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable member's time has expired. The local Liberal Party candidates literally went off their faces in defence of the council. I wonder why Whipstick Goldmining and they are not sufficiently concerned about these 120 Development Co. Pty Ltd businesses in the Gilbert Park Drive area of Knoxfield to support their petition and their pleas Mr E. R. SMITH (Glen Waverley) -I raise a for lights in that area. I wonder why the local Liberal matter for the urgent attention of the Minister for candidates feel the need to defend the council so Police and Emergency Services concerning the much. present investigation by the Deputy Ombudsman, Dr Perry, into the Victorian Economic Development In the past the Knox council has always been Corporation. interested in matters that concern local residents and local businesses and it has certainly been concerned 1 ask the Minister to closely scrutinise all with the efficiency of local businesses. However, circumstances surrounding the issue of a dangerous with the Liberal Party candidates around the place, poiSOns licence to the Whipstick Goldmining and some of whom seem to have strong connections Development Co. Pty Ltd and the provision of with the council, on this occasion it has been difficult taxpayers' money to Whipstick. In August 1988, less to deal with the council because one can no longer than two months before the 1988 State election, the get straight through when one wants to. So one Cain government was well aware of the serious makes representations to the council and all the local allegations being raised against the proprietors of Liberals stand up and say that we have to really Whipstick, Mr Alan Neilson and his family, and the listen to the council, we are not to take any notice of circumstances surrounding the raising of funds for a the residents, and we must look after council goldmining venture. priorities here. At the time the State government had been warned It does not appear that 120 businesses matter to the it was a risky venture. I have a letter from Health local Liberals. I find that attitude, especially given Department Victoria signed by a Mr Michael that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition was out Scavone on 31 August 1988, the final part of which there the other day maligning women and states: unions-- The issue of an industrial permit should be deferred Mr GUDE (Hawthorn) - On a point of order, the until such time as Whipstick Goldmining and honourable member said that I was maligning Development Co. Pty Lld is able to produce a valid and women in the Knox area. That is untrue. current mining licence ... and that such licence has a special condition that cyanide may be used on that site. The SPEAKER - Order! This is not an opportunity for a personal explanation. Mr Scavone had gone through the full criminal background of the Neilsons. The government took Mr GUDE - It is more than that. I take offence at urgent action to play down the VEOC affair and, in the remark that has been made because it is untrue particular, the Whipstick aspect. and I ask the honourable member to withdraw. The government called an election a short time later The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable and made sure all leaks to the media were plugged member for Hawthorn has asked the honourable so that the public could not be fully informed of the member for Wantirna to withdraw. scandal. Later, the VEOC stopped trading and was placed under the control of Mr lan Morton of the Mrs HIRSH (Wantima) - The Deputy Leader of Rural Finance Corporation of Victoria (RFC); he the Opposition -- tried to repair the damage.

The SPEAKER - Order! The honourable Unbeknown to Mr Morton, Mr Skinner of the RFC member should simply withdraw. and the VEOC was trying to provide funds to the Neilsons. 1 have a memorandum to the credit ADJOURNMENT

192 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992 committee of the VEOC signed by Mr Skinner, and '" 'The matter of Mr Landeryou's phone calls were his submission of 6 December 1988. raised at the board table". He said "specialist conditions" were placed in the VEOC-Neilsen contract Simultaneously, Mr Morton asked the Victoria to safeguard the VEOC's interests. 'Why these Police to assist. Senior Detective Mike Shuett of the conditions were not adhered to and the money was Corporate Investigations Bureau assisted. However, advanced anyway, is not within my knowledge". all this happened only weeks before the election and Mr Shuett was prevented from continuing his This matter is crying out for investigation. This investigations. matter has been proceeding for years but it is associated with the investigation now being carried News reports have carried versions of certain out by Dr Perry. Dr Perry must bring this matter into aspects of this case for some years. This afternoon I his terms of reference. spoke to a private investigator who is prepared to give evidence under oath to Dr Perry. I will pass his I shall provide any of the details to Dr Perry and at name to Dr Perry. My informant prefers to remain this stage, unless the matter is inquired into in an anonymous for the moment but wishes to give his open forum, the whole of the affair will be evidence in public and under oath. considered nothing more than a whitewash.

This is a reason why Dr Perry's inquiry must be held Dispute settlement centres in public, so that the public confidence in the criminal justice system can be restored. A proper Mr HAMILTON (Morwell) - The matter I raise police investigation has never been conducted into for the attention of the Attorney-General is the the VEOC losses. rumours and concerns of the Coalition of Community Mediation Centres; these centres were Newspaper reports and Victoria Police reports have established some time ago and have actually now linked this affair with the Honourable Bill changed their names to "dispute settlement" centres. Landeryou in the other place. Dr Perry must include those allegations in his inquiry so that the gOQd Victoria has seven centres located at Preston, Knox, name of Bill Landeryou can be cleared. Here is a Windsor, Frankston, Geelong, Bendigo and Morwell. tailor-made opportunity of testing the allegation and They were established as an alternative method of clearing Bill Landeryou; and I am sure he would - attempting to address neighbourhood disputes, want that because he would not want to be specifically neighbour versus neighbour or group associated with any Ministerial breach or allegations versus group in any area. The former that there had been Ministerial intervention in any Attorney-General, the present Minister for Planning investigation. and Housing, Mr McCutcheon, established the centres; their staff have now developed much It is relevant to refer to an article in the 4 March 1989 expertise and receive extensive community support. edition of the Age; it ~tates: They have provided an alternative to the civil courts In a statement to police, the former General Manager of and the legal sector which has always been costly. the VEOC, Mr Barrie Beattie, said he was told three Arguments can often be resolved at these centres times by Mr Currie that the former Minister for and advice given to settle disputes between Economic Development, Mr Landeryou, had neighbours. telephoned seeking support for the VEOC loan. Somebody from the Attorney-General's Deparbnent According to the statement, the loan was sought by Mr has leaked or has made available to the dispute Alan Frederick Neilsen for Whipstick Gold Mining and settlement centres information that there may be Development Co. Pty Ltd. Mr Neilsen is listed as a considerable changes to the centres in the future. director and secretary of the company. Already there are rumours that the whole program may be changed or altered so that the centres no Mr Beattie said: -- longer serve the purpose for which they were set up.

And this is important, and why Dr Perry must The Coalition of Community Mediation Centres - a investigate the matter: group of seven - is seeking an urgent meeting with the Attorney-General to allay some of the rumours. I hope the Attorney-General meets with ADJOURNMENT

Thursday, 19 March 1992 ASSEMBLY 193 representatives of that coalition. It has listed a to develop the aesthetics of the area and to provide a number of items it would like to discuss, such as the pleasant environment around the excellent buildings adequacy of the current program budget. There in which the government has invested several have been reductions in the budgets in previous million dollars. years in Victoria whereas similar programs called community justice programs operating in New Tenders for the fourth stage of the building program South Wales and Queensland have received have been finalised and the successful tenderer will increased budget allocations. The group would like be announced in a matter of days. to discuss the rumoured changes to the current program, the rumoured amalgamation of some The school community has expressed concern that centres and the rationalisation of services. It would although the students, the staff and the parents have also like to discuss the lack of consultation with the great pride in the buildings and grounds, the centre's management regarding possible changes. It maintenance and development of these facilities is is concerned about the implications of the possible way beyond the resources of the school. It is not establishment of a new centre in the western reasonable to expect the staff to be looking after the suburbs. That centre would be supported, but not at gardens, mowing the ovals and doing basic the expense of the seven present centres. There is an development work. The school community argues urgent need for the establishment of a program that the gardener should continue to be employed. If advisory committee as was originally provided for that is not possible,. it asks for a grant for the in the funding agreement. development of the landscape and the aesthetics of the area. These centres have proven to be cost effective and have resolved disputes within neighbourhoods. In a I suggest it would be a good investment to protect short period they have built an important reputation the buildings and facilities. If the government does as being an alternative means of settlement rather not care about these magnificent facilities it is a bit than people going through formal and expensive hard to expect the students to show the due care and court proceedings. respect required for the buildings and grounds.

Will the Attorney-General meet with representatives I appeal to the Minister to do what he can to ensure of the group to discuss their concerns? They wish to that the gardens of the new Echuca Technical School have confidence in their future and to do the job for are developed and kept in good order and ask for which they are being paid. funding to be made available for such purposes.

Echuca Technical School The SPEAKER - Order! Before calling on the Minister to respond, I shall comment on the Mr MAUGHAN (Rodney) - I raise a matter for contribution of the Leader of the National Party in the attention of the Minister for School Education which he used a document - and I have no cause to concerning the decision of the Ministry to remove doubt its authenticity - that contained imputations from schools the position of full-time gardener. against a number of members of this House and at Normally I would not be arguing for the retention of least one member of the other place. gardeners in schools, but in this case it is for the Echuca Technical School. That school has a long and I direct to the attention of the honourable member proud history. Recently it moved into new facilities page 382 of May's Parliamentary Practice, twenty-first that were opened by the Premier when she was edition, which states: Minister for Education some eighteen months ago. The school has lovely facilities and I compliment the A Member is not allowed to use unparliamentary Minister and the government on prOViding them. words by the device of putting them in somebody else's mouth. The school is situated on 28 acres and the Premier and the chief general manager of the Ministry said The word "unparliamentary" is defined on page 381 that the government wanted to do a good job in as including the imputation of false or unavowed providing facilities and a good learning motives; and it goes on to refer to other definitions. environment. The Leader of the National Party may think this is To that end a gardener has been employed. I stress amusing, but he would be well aware that only that it is not to maintain the gardens in this case but yesterday he and others contributed to a major ADJOURNMENT

194 ASSEMBLY Thursday, 19 March 1992 debate in this House on ways in which the standing The honourable member for Morwell raised the of the House and the effectiveness of this institution matter of mediation centres for the attention of the could be improved. It is not for the Chair to make a Attorney-General, and that will be forwarded to judgment on whether the Leader of the National him. Finally, the honourable member for Rodney Party knowingly breached that practice; but I direct raised a matter of school gardeners in his area for the to his attention the serious effect such actions have attention of the Minister for School Education, and in undermining the effectiveness of this institution, that, too, will be brought to the Minister's attention. undermining the credibility of individuals who take such action and generally bringing down rather than Mr E. R. SMITH (Glen Waverley) - Mr Speaker, enhancing the standing and effectiveness of this on a point of order, I direct to your attention the fact institution. that the Premier is not present and that the only Minister present is the Minister for Food and I advise him and other members that it is not Agriculture. appropriate or permissible to use the device of a document prepared by someone else, or in someone This matter has been raised before, and certainly else's name, to make statements that are before the Premier said yesterday during the unparliamentary. presentation of her Ministerial statement on Parliamentary reform that this was going to be a Mr McNAMARA (Leader of the National Party) "new look" government. The current situation just (By leave) -In responding to your comments, proves that the Premier's statement was rhetoric. Mr Speaker, I was not aware of that section in May. Clearly you were not aware of it either; otherwise I ask you to direct the matter to the attention of the you would have advised me at the time I was Premier because those of us who have raised matters making my remarks. during the adjournment debate seek replies to them, rather than hearing the Minister at the table saying In the future I will ensure that my remarks follow that the matters will be referred on. the direction of May. Perhaps you and I can read the provisions so that we both have a better The SPEAKER - Order! In respect of the matter understanding of what is contained in May. raised by the honourable member for Glen Waverley, I have indicated to the House previously Responses that it is a matter of concern that has been raised with the government. It was raised in the debate, Mr BAKER (Minister for Food and which has now been adjourned, on the Premier's Agriculture) - The Deputy Leader of the Uberal Ministerial statement. It would seem to be a matter Party raised a matter for the attention of the Premier. appropriate for further consideration in the course of I will ensure that the matter is communicated to her. that debate. The Leader of the National Party raised a question for the attention of the Minister for Police and Motion agreed to. Emergency Services, and I shall forward that to him. House adjourned 6.41 p.m. until Tuesday, 24 The honourable member for Wantirna raised a March. matter for the attention of the Minister for Transport, and he will be advised of that. The honourable member for Glen Waverley also raised a matter for the attention of the Minister for Police and Emergency Services, and that will be directed to him.