STRESKI REPORTING & VIDEO 1-800-659-2249 Page 1 in THE

WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY BOARD OF GOVERNORS v. RICHARD RODRIGUEZ 6/12/2008 GARRISON MICHAEL

Page 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF MONONGALIA COUNTY, WEST VIRGINIA

WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY : BOARD OF GOVERNORS for : and on behalf of WEST : VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY, : Plaintiff : CIVIL ACTION NO. v : NO. 07-C-851 RICHARD RODRIGUEZ, : : Defendant :

* * * Videotaped Deposition of Michael Garrison Thursday, June 12, 2008 * * * a witness herein, taken on behalf of the defendant in the above-entitled cause of action pursuant to notice and the West Virginia Rules of Civil Procedure by and before Connie M. Nichols, Court Reporter and Notary Public within and for the State of West Virginia, at the law offices of Flaherty, Sensabaugh & Bonasso, PLLC, 965 Hartman Run Road, Suite 1105, Morgantown, West Virginia 26505, commencing at 8:38 a.m.

STRESKI REPORTING & VIDEO 1-800-659-2249 Wheeling, WV Morgantown, WV Charleston, WV Steubenville, OH Pittsburgh, PA WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY BOARD OF GOVERNORS v. RICHARD RODRIGUEZ 6/12/2008 GARRISON MICHAEL

Page 2 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 On behalf of the Plaintiff: 4 THOMAS V. FLAHERTY, Esquire 5 JEFFREY M. WAKEFIELD, Esquire 6 Flaherty, Sensabaugh & Bonasso, PLLC, 200 Capitol 7 Street, Charleston, West Virginia 25338-3843 8 Telephone: (304) 345-0200

9 Fax: (304) 345-0260 10 E-mail: [email protected]

11 [email protected]

13 ROBERT P. FITZSIMMONS, Esquire

14 ROBERT J. FITZSIMMONS, Esquire

15 Fitzsimmons Law Offices, 1609 Warwood Avenue,

16 Wheeling, West Virginia 26003

17 Telephone: (304) 277-1700 18 Fax: (304) 277-1705 19 E-mail: [email protected] 20 [email protected] 21 22 23 24

Page 3 1 APPEARANCES (Cont.): 2 3 On behalf of the Plaintiff: 4 ALEXANDER MACIA, Esquire 5 West Virginia University, Office of the 6 President, 105 Stewart Hall, Morgantown, 7 West Virginia 26506-6201 8 Telephone: (304) 293-5670

9 Fax: (304) 293-2326 10 E-mail: [email protected]

13 On behalf of the Defendant:

14 MARVIN A. ROBON, Esquire

15 Barkan & Robon Ltd., 1701 Woodlands Drive,

16 Suite 100, Maumee, Ohio 43537-4092

17 Telephone: (419) 897-6500 18 Fax: (419) 897-6200 19 E-mail: [email protected] 20 21 22 23 24

Page 4 1 APPEARANCES (Cont.): 2 3 On behalf of the Defendant: 4 SEAN P. McGINLEY, Esquire 5 DiTrapano, Barrett & DiPiero, PLLC, 604 Virginia 6 Street East, Charleston, West Virginia 25301 7 Telephone: (304) 342-0133 8 Fax: (304) 342-4605

9 E-mail: [email protected] 10

14 ALSO PRESENT:

15 Richard Rodriguez

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Page 5 1 I N D E X 2 WITNESS PAGE 3 Michael Garrison 4 Examination By Mr. Robon ...... 11 5 Examination By Mr. Flaherty ...... 359 6 Examination By Mr. Robon ...... 370 7 8

9 E X H I B I T S 10 PAGE

11 Garrison Deposition Exhibit RR ...... 29

12 Garrison Deposition Exhibit SS ...... 38

13 Garrison Deposition Exhibit TT ...... 45

14 Garrison Deposition Exhibit UU ...... 63

15 Garrison Deposition Exhibit VV ...... 65

16 Garrison Deposition Exhibit WW ...... 67

17 Garrison Deposition Exhibit XX ...... 90 18 Garrison Deposition Exhibit YY ...... 107 19 Garrison Deposition Exhibit ZZ ...... 139 20 Garrison Deposition Exhibit AAA ...... 142 21 Garrison Deposition Exhibit BBB ...... 152 22 Garrison Deposition Exhibit CCC ...... 181 23 Garrison Deposition Exhibit DDD ...... 195 24 Garrison Deposition Exhibit EEE ...... 197

Page 6 1 E X H I B I T S (Cont.) 2 PAGE 3 Garrison Deposition Exhibit FFF ...... 197 4 Garrison Deposition Exhibit GGG ...... 198 5 Garrison Deposition Exhibit HHH ...... 198 6 Garrison Deposition Exhibit III ...... 199 7 Garrison Deposition Exhibit JJJ ...... 199 8 Garrison Deposition Exhibit KKK ...... 201

9 Garrison Deposition Exhibit LLL ...... 203 10 Garrison Deposition Exhibit MMM ...... 205

11 Garrison Deposition Exhibit OOO ...... 250

12 Garrison Deposition Exhibit NNN ...... 321

13 Garrison Deposition Exhibit OOO ...... 327

14 Garrison Deposition Exhibit PPP ...... 333

15 Garrison Deposition Exhibit QQQ ...... 342

16 Garrison Deposition Exhibit RRR ...... 343

17 18 19 O B J E C T I O N S 20 PAGE LINE 21 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 25 19 22 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 80 15 23 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 93 20 24 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 98 22

Page 7 1 O B J E C T I O N S (Cont.) 2 PAGE LINE 3 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 101 17 4 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 120 5 5 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 123 11 6 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 161 23 7 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 171 2 8 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 173 1

9 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 174 1 10 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 176 14

11 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 196 18

12 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 235 2

13 By Mr. Robon ...... 242 14

14 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 243 23

15 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 295 10

16 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 298 12

17 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 313 18 18 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 315 11 19 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 317 12 20 By Mr. Wakefield ...... 322 23 21 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 324 4 22 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 327 10 23 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 337 5 24 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 337 13

Page 8 1 O B J E C T I O N S (Cont.) 2 PAGE LINE 3 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 341 21 4 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 349 19 5 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 351 24 6 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 353 12 7 By Mr. Flaherty ...... 356 20 8 By Mr. Robon ...... 361 4

9 By Mr. Robon ...... 361 16 10 By Mr. Robon ...... 362 13

11 By Mr. Robon ...... 362 23

12 By Mr. Robon ...... 364 2

13 By Mr. Robon ...... 364 8

14 By Mr. Robon ...... 364 22

15 By Mr. Robon ...... 365 4

16 By Mr. Robon ...... 366 1

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Page 9 1 * * * 2 P R O C E E D I N G S 3 * * * 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will 5 everyone please turn off all cell phones, 6 BlackBerries, pagers and portable communication 7 devices. 8 We're now on the record in the

9 matter of WVU versus Rodriguez, Civil Action 10 No. 07-C-851.

11 My name is John Taylor, I'm a legal

12 video specialist from Katz Consulting Group, LLC, 13 located at 820 Quarrier Street, Charleston, West

14 Virginia 25301. I'm not related to any parties

15 to this action or to counsel of record, nor do I

16 have a financial interest in this action.

17 Today is June 12, 2008, the time is 18 8:38 a.m. This deposition is taking place at 19 Flaherty, Sensabaugh & Bonasso, PLLC, 965 Hartman 20 Run Road, Morgantown, West Virginia. The 21 deponent today is Mike Garrison. 22 Will the court reporter, counsel and 23 attendees please identify themselves. 24 THE COURT REPORTER: Connie

Page 10 1 Nichols with Streski Reporting & Video Service, 2 court reporter. 3 MR. ROBON: Marvin A. Robon 4 from Barkan & Robon of Maumee, Ohio, representing 5 Rich Rodriguez. 6 MR. RODRIGUEZ: Rich 7 Rodriguez. 8 MR. McGINLEY: Sean McGinley

9 for Richard Rodriguez. 10 MR. R.J. FITZSIMMONS: Robert 11 J. Fitzsimmons on behalf of West Virginia

12 University.

13 MR. MACIA: Alex Macia with

14 West Virginia University.

15 MR. WAKEFIELD: Jeff

16 Wakefield, representing West Virginia University.

17 MR. R.P. FITZSIMMONS: Bob 18 Fitzsimmons, representing West Virginia 19 University. 20 MR. FLAHERTY: Tom Flaherty 21 on behalf of West Virginia as counsel, its board 22 of governors, and the witness. 23 MR. GARRISON: Mike Garrison, 24 West Virginia University.

Page 11 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the 2 court reporter please swear in the witness. 3 * * * 4 MICHAEL GARRISON 5 being first duly sworn, was examined and deposed 6 as follows: 7 * * * 8 E X A M I N A T I O N

9 BY MR. ROBON: 10 Q. Would you indicate for the jury your

11 name and address.

12 A. My name is Mike Garrison, I live at

13 948 Riverview Drive, Morgantown, West Virginia.

14 Q. And, Mr. Garrison, would you give us

15 the history of your education and where you went

16 to school.

17 A. Sure. I attended West Virginia 18 University for undergraduate work and received my 19 degree from West Virginia University. 20 Q. In what year? 21 A. In 1992. 22 And then I spent a year, almost a 23 year, away, in England, studying at Oxford, at 24 St. Ann's College. And came back and attended

Page 12 1 law school, received a degree from WVU College of 2 Law in 1996. 3 Q. Did you have degrees with honors at 4 either your graduate or undergraduate work? 5 A. I had honors in both my undergraduate 6 and my law degree. 7 Q. And what type of honors in your law 8 degree?

9 A. My law degree honors were Order of 10 the Barristers, and I believe that's it.

11 Q. Is that a certain grade point

12 average?

13 A. No, it was a selection based upon

14 mute court, my mute court work and my work on the 15 national mute court team.

16 Q. What was your class rank in law

17 school? 18 A. I don't recall my exact class rank. 19 Q. Upper or lower half? 20 A. Oh, upper half. 21 Q. And you graduated from law school in 22 what year? 23 A. 1996. 24 Q. And what did you do after law school?

Page 13 1 A. I began working at the law firm of 2 Steptoe & Johnson, Clarksburg, West Virginia. 3 Q. And that's a big law firm. It 4 represents Columbia Gas, I think, correct? 5 A. I'm not sure. 6 Q. It's a big law firm. 7 A. How do you define "big"? 8 Q. More than 100 lawyers.

9 A. I'm not sure if it had more than 100 10 at the time.

11 Q. One of the biggest firms in

12 West Virginia, though, correct?

13 A. I would say that's a fair statement.

14 Q. And as an associate in that law firm, 15 what department were you in?

16 A. I worked in the labor and employment

17 department, and also the litigation department. 18 But, really, took any work that came my way, like 19 most associates do. 20 Q. And how long were you there? 21 A. I was at Steptoe & Johnson in 22 Clarksburg until, I believe, 1999. 23 Q. So you worked four or five years? 24 A. About three-and-a-half years.

Page 14 1 Q. Three-and-a-half years. 2 And then what did you, were you 3 discharged? 4 A. No. 5 Q. You left on your own accord? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. How much notice did you give them? 8 A. I can't recall how much notice I gave

9 them. 10 Q. More than a week?

11 A. I can't recall how much notice I

12 gave.

13 Q. You don't recall.

14 Did you leave on good terms, where

15 they said, "We would hire you back"?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Did they give you a letter of 18 recommendation? 19 A. I didn't ask for one. 20 Q. So they didn't give you one. 21 A. I didn't ask for one. 22 Q. And you left that Steptoe & Johnson, 23 was it to, to go where? 24 A. I went, moved to Charleston, worked

Page 15 1 for the law firm of Bowles Rice, and worked there 2 for approximately five months. 3 Q. And what type of firm was that? 4 A. It's mainly a defense firm. 5 Q. How many lawyers? 6 A. I don't know the number of lawyers. 7 Q. Well, was it four or five or 20? 8 A. Oh, it was more than 20, but I don't

9 know the exact number. 10 Q. Insurance defense work?

11 A. I did some insurance defense work.

12 They do, really, a number of types of work.

13 Q. Criminal defense?

14 A. I don't know if they do any criminal

15 defense. I did not.

16 Q. When did you have your first court

17 appearance as a lawyer? 18 A. I can't recall. 19 Q. You don't remember if it was your 20 first week of practice or your first year? 21 A. I really can't recall. 22 Q. How old are you? 23 A. I'm 39. 24 Q. You don't remember that, huh?

Page 16 1 A. No. 2 Q. You know, I'm an old guy and I still 3 remember my first one. 4 In any event, how long were you at 5 that law firm? 6 A. Five months. 7 Q. And were you terminated? 8 A. No.

9 Q. Did you receive a salary increase in 10 that five months?

11 A. I don't recall.

12 Q. Who was your immediate supervisor in

13 that law firm?

14 A. I reported, usually, to Tom Haywood

15 or Tom Graph.

16 Q. Are they still practicing?

17 A. Yes, I believe so. 18 Q. And what was your reason for 19 departure? 20 A. I really wanted to return back to 21 Steptoe & Johnson, in the Charleston, we moved to 22 Charleston. And so I did that, returned to 23 Steptoe & Johnson in the Charleston office. 24 Q. And in what capacity?

Page 17 1 A. I'm not sure I understand your 2 question. 3 Q. Well, did they bring you in as a 4 partner? Were you an associate? 5 A. No, I was an associate. I was an 6 associate at all firms. 7 Q. Okay. 8 So now you're out about, what, five

9 years? 10 A. "Now" when?

11 Q. I mean after you went to the first

12 law firm, Steptoe, and then you moved, now you're 13 back at Steptoe & Johnson.

14 A. Yes.

15 Four or five years, yes, sir.

16 Q. What year was that?

17 A. I believe it was 2000. 18 Q. And you're not a partner? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. Did you ever make partner? 21 A. Where? 22 Q. At Steptoe & Johnson. 23 A. No, I did not. 24 Q. Did they tell you you weren't a

Page 18 1 candidate for partnership? 2 A. I hadn't been there long enough to be 3 considered for partner. 4 Q. What year did you graduate from law 5 school? 6 A. Again, 1996. 7 Q. So you're out four to five years. 8 A. That's correct.

9 Q. How long were you then at Steptoe & 10 Johnson the second time?

11 A. Until January of 2001.

12 Q. And what caused your departure?

13 A. I was asked to serve as the

14 West Virginia Secretary of Tax & Revenue.

15 Q. A political appointment?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And was that a government, 18 gubernatorial appointment? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Which governor? 21 A. Governor Bob Wise. 22 Q. That's W-Y-S-E? 23 A. No. 24 Q. How do you spell it?

Page 19 1 A. W-I-S-E. 2 Q. W-I-S-E. 3 He's a democrat? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. And how long did you serve in that 6 position? 7 A. I believe five months. 8 Q. And then you did what?

9 A. I was asked to take the job of 10 gubernatorial chief of staff to the governor.

11 Q. Which entailed running his day-to-day 12 life?

13 A. Governor's chief of staff entails

14 running, managing the governor's office. It

15 entails everything from working with our

16 legislative initiatives, working through office

17 issues, assisting the governor on just about any 18 issue that he has. 19 Q. And was Governor Wise a new governor 20 or a governor that had been in power quite a 21 while? 22 A. No, he was a new governor. 23 Q. He just won the election? 24 A. That's correct.

Page 20 1 Q. Did you work on his campaign? 2 A. I did not. 3 Q. How did you meet him? 4 A. I met Governor Wise when I was an 5 undergraduate here at West Virginia University. 6 Q. In what capacity? 7 A. He came to campus, and I was a 8 student, and I met him.

9 Q. Did he remember you? 10 A. I believe so.

11 I was very impressed with him when he 12 came to campus, and tried to stay in touch with

13 him.

14 Q. So you were then his chief of staff

15 in, what, 2002?

16 A. No, that's 2001.

17 Q. Okay. 18 And how long were you in that 19 position? 20 A. Until October of 2003. 21 Q. So a year-and-a-half? 22 A. No, it's actually longer than a 23 year-and-a-half. 24 Q. And October of 2003, you said?

Page 21 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. What did you decide to do at that 3 point in time? 4 A. At that point in time, the governor 5 had decided not to seek reelection. And I 6 decided to return to the practice of law, and I 7 joined the law firm of Spilman Thomas & Battle in 8 the Charleston office.

9 Q. And how big a law firm is that? 10 A. It's, I'm not sure of the exact

11 number, I'm sorry.

12 Q. Big or small firm?

13 A. Oh, it's a larger firm, by

14 West Virginia standards.

15 Q. More than 20 lawyers?

16 A. More than 20 lawyers, yes, sir.

17 Q. And who did you primarily report to 18 at that law firm? 19 A. At the time, the managing member was 20 Robert O'Neil, but I worked with a number of 21 different lawyers. 22 Q. Did you consider going back to 23 Steptoe & Johnson? 24 A. Yes, I gave it consideration.

Page 22 1 Q. And did they make you an officer? 2 A. We didn't get that far in the 3 discussions. 4 Q. Because you had already left them 5 once before? 6 A. That's not correct. 7 Q. Twice before? 8 A. That's, I had been there twice

9 before, but that's not the reason why. 10 Q. Not the reason why what?

11 A. That we didn't get that far on an

12 offer.

13 Q. And what was that reason?

14 A. I decided to go to Spilman Thomas &

15 Battle.

16 Q. At a salary increase or decrease?

17 A. From what? 18 Q. From what you had before. 19 A. Where? 20 Q. Where you had just left in 2003. 21 A. The governor's office? 22 Q. Uh-huh. 23 A. It was a salary increase. 24 Q. Was the governor's office full time?

Page 23 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. So now you're at this new law firm, 3 who did you report to there? 4 A. As I stated earlier, Bob O'Neil was 5 the managing member, but I worked with a number 6 of different attorneys. 7 Q. Were you primarily assigned to the 8 litigation group or the business group or the

9 labor group? 10 A. More litigation and business, and

11 some government relations.

12 Q. And you were at that firm for how

13 long?

14 A. Until July of 2007.

15 Q. And you became a lobbyist when you

16 were at that law firm?

17 A. I did some lobbying while at Spilman 18 Thomas & Battle, yes, sir. 19 Q. Tell us how you got into the lobbying 20 business. Was it through your efforts or through 21 that law firm's efforts? 22 A. I just tried to serve client needs at 23 the firm. Clients had needs, and the firm did 24 some lobbying, and I was asked to participate.

Page 24 1 And I did. 2 Q. Would you say it was a politically 3 oriented law firm? 4 A. No, I would not say that, 5 necessarily. 6 Q. Would you say -- what percentage of 7 their work would be on state matters? 8 A. I have no idea.

9 Q. Did you work on state matters? 10 A. I'm not sure what you mean by "state

11 matters."

12 Q. Representing the State of

13 West Virginia or its affiliates, universities.

14 A. I never represented the State of

15 West Virginia, that I can recall.

16 Q. Did you have more of an individual

17 clientele or corporate clientele? 18 A. Both. 19 Q. And what areas of expertise were you 20 gaining, if any? 21 A. I worked on a variety of matters. 22 Really, whatever the firm's clients had as a 23 need, if I was able to or asked to work on a 24 matter, I would work on issues ranging from

Page 25 1 industrial clients, mining clients, to developer 2 clients, a wide array of clients. 3 Q. During these -- that would be, what, 4 seven years out of law school? 5 A. I began at Spilman Thomas & Battle in 6 October of 2003. 7 Q. And you graduated in '96. 8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. So during that seven years, did you 10 go back for further education?

11 A. I'm not sure what you mean.

12 Q. Well, did you go back to work on a

13 Ph.D. degree or a master's degree?

14 A. I did not.

15 Q. A master of law?

16 A. No, sir.

17 Q. And how did you get in the lobbying 18 business? 19 MR. FLAHERTY: Objection, 20 asked and answered. 21 BY MR. ROBON: 22 Q. No, but I want to know how you were 23 introduced to it. 24 A. Firm clients had needs at that level,

Page 26 1 and I was asked to participate and assist 2 clients, and that's what I did. 3 Q. Was the firm itself a politically 4 oriented firm? 5 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and 6 answered. 7 BY MR. ROBON: 8 Q. And when I mean "politically

9 oriented," I mean did it represent a lot of 10 people before the state government?

11 A. I wouldn't call it a politically

12 oriented firm. We had a number, a wide array of

13 clients, and I tried to assist them.

14 Q. Were there other people within the

15 firm that were registered lobbyists?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. How many? 18 A. I don't recall the number. 19 Q. Several or just a few? 20 A. Oh, there were a number, I'm sure. 21 Q. Would you explain to the jury what a 22 lobbyist does. 23 A. Lobbyists work with clients or 24 individuals to help resolve issues with state or

Page 27 1 federal government entities, as those issues may 2 arise. 3 Q. I always thought lobbyists were 4 people who promoted clients in front of state 5 government to get government contracts and to 6 make certain that laws were enacted to benefit 7 their clients. 8 MR. FLAHERTY: Is that a

9 question? 10 BY MR. ROBON:

11 Q. Is that a warped view of a lobbyist?

12 A. I'm not sure I understand your

13 question.

14 Q. Well, what I just described, isn't

15 that what lobbyists do?

16 A. Could you describe it again for me,

17 please. 18 Q. Yeah, sure. 19 Isn't a lobbyist a person who goes to 20 state government, meets with legislators or the 21 governor's office and tries to get laws enacted 22 for the betterment of his client? 23 A. That could be one thing that a 24 lobbyist might do.

Page 28 1 Q. Did you do that? 2 A. I did that from time to time, yes. 3 Q. And the fees that a law firm charges 4 for a lawyer that's a lobbyist are different than 5 a regular hourly rate, correct? 6 A. Not to my knowledge. 7 Q. They don't charge a fee based upon 8 results?

9 A. Not to my knowledge. 10 Q. Were you involved in the billing

11 process at that law firm?

12 A. What do you mean by "the billing

13 process"? I kept track of my billable hours,

14 yes, sir.

15 Q. Did you bill your own time?

16 A. Yes, I did.

17 Q. Did the managing partner or a 18 managing member review your bills? 19 A. I'm sure someone reviewed my bills. 20 Q. Did you see the final bills before 21 they went out? 22 A. Yes. Most of them. 23 Q. And how many -- you were there for, 24 what, three years, to 2007?

Page 29 1 A. Over three years, yes. 2 Q. Over three years. 3 And you were a registered lobbyist 4 during that entire time? 5 A. During most of that time, I can't say 6 it was the entire time, but I registered to 7 lobby, I believe in 2003 or early 2004. 8 * * *

9 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 10 Exhibit RR was marked for purposes of

11 identification.)

12 * * *

13 BY MR. ROBON:

14 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've

15 marked as RR, and ask if this is a form that you

16 completed pursuant to the state law for

17 registering as a lobbyist in the state 18 government. 19 A. Yes, it appears to be. 20 Q. And what's the purpose of registering 21 as a lobbyist? 22 A. It's a requirement, per the state 23 code. 24 Q. I understand it's a requirement, but

Page 30 1 what's the purpose? 2 A. I'm not sure I understand your 3 question. 4 Q. Why would the state law require that 5 you register as a lobbyist? 6 A. I'm not sure why the state law 7 requires it. I, I understand that there is a 8 requirement per the code and the Ethics Act to

9 register, so those who lobby can be identified as 10 lobbyists.

11 Q. And on page 1 of Exhibit RR, in

12 paragraph 2, it says you, a lobbyist is going to

13 be general government relations. Do you see

14 that?

15 A. Where are you talking about, sir?

16 Q. Page 1.

17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. Item 2. 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Handwritten. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. General government relations. 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. Is that what you were going to do?

Page 31 1 A. For that particular client, and that 2 client was the firm, yes, in fact, if the firm 3 had any general government relations. 4 Q. And my understanding is you needed to 5 register for each company or firm that you are 6 going to be representing. 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. Can you explain to the jury why a law

9 firm would be a lobbyist before the state 10 legislature?

11 A. It was a practice that all of us

12 undertook, who engaged in government relations,

13 in the event that the firm was ever representing

14 itself. It's just really a good business

15 practice for the firm.

16 I didn't do any lobbying on behalf of 17 the firm, directly. 18 Q. Did the law firm ever get any state 19 work from the attorney general or the governor or 20 the legislature? 21 A. To my knowledge, I really don't know. 22 None that I worked on. 23 Q. And on page 2, it says the employer 24 that you're lobbying for is West Virginia United

Page 32 1 Health Systems, Inc. 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. It's a healthcare hospital? 4 A. It's a health system. 5 Q. Were you the only lobbyist for that 6 organization? 7 A. I'm not sure. 8 Q. Was there a fee that you had to pay

9 to register? 10 A. I'm sure there was.

11 Q. Well, up in the right-hand corner it

12 says, there's a dollar figure and you need two

13 passport photos and a $60 check for two years.

14 Page 3, you're registering for the

15 West Virginia Media?

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. What is that? 18 A. That is a West Virginia media 19 company. 20 Q. And is it newspapers or television 21 stations or radio stations? 22 A. I believe just newspaper and 23 television stations. 24 Q. And why would they need a lobbyist in

Page 33 1 the state government? 2 A. They would occasionally have issues. 3 And I didn't do a lot of lobbying for them, but 4 always out of an abundance of caution, you would 5 register in case they had issues, if they would 6 have occasional issues before the legislature 7 related to broadcasting issues. 8 Q. And then on page 3 it says Corotoman,

9 it's C-O-R-O-T-O-M-A-N, Inc. 10 A. Yes, sir.

11 Q. Commercial development and business

12 issues.

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Was that a real estate developer?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. Why would a real estate developer

17 need a lobbyist? 18 A. Would occasionally have issues before 19 state government on any number of properties it 20 may have. 21 Q. Wouldn't local government for zoning 22 and issuance of permits and the EPA be localized, 23 it wouldn't come from the state government? 24 A. That's not always true.

Page 34 1 Q. Did you have any matters for 2 Corotoman, Inc., before the state legislature? 3 A. None before the state legislature. 4 Q. And is the lobbying for the 5 legislature and other governmental entities? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. What governmental entities would you 8 have had with Corotoman, Inc.?

9 A. I believe, and I really can't recall 10 the exact number of the work, that there was some 11 real estate issues that they were interested in.

12 Q. And then on page 4 -- actually,

13 page 5, you've registered for Camden-Clark

14 Memorial Hospital.

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. Healthcare financing.

17 Page 6, you've registered for 18 Alliance Resource Partners, LP, permitting and 19 regulatory issues, energy concerns. 20 Was that an oil company? 21 A. It's a coal company. 22 Q. Coal company. 23 And then on page 7, you registered 24 for Platinum Properties.

Page 35 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Which is a real estate developer? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. And on page 8, you registered for 5 Heather M. Bresch, Mylan, M-Y-L-A-N, 6 Laboratories, Inc. 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. When did you first meet Heather

9 Bresch? 10 A. I'm not sure of the exact year.

11 Q. Well, this was dated February 6 of

12 '04. Did you meet her before that?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. Is she about your age?

15 A. She is.

16 Q. Did you go to school together?

17 A. Went to high school together, yes, 18 sir. 19 Q. Did you date her? 20 A. I did not. 21 Q. How did she come to you and you 22 register her as a client for lobbying purposes? 23 A. Our law firm had done some work 24 already with Mylan Pharmaceuticals, and there

Page 36 1 were a number of pharmaceutical issues that were 2 coming before the legislature during the 2004 3 legislative session, and I was asked to get 4 involved with those issues. 5 Q. Is Mylan Laboratories a family-owned 6 company or a publicly traded company? 7 A. It was a publicly traded company. 8 Q. On which exchange?

9 A. I'm not sure. 10 Q. How large of a company, in revenue?

11 A. I'm not sure.

12 Q. Billions or millions?

13 A. I don't know the answer to that

14 question.

15 Q. Is she an owner of that company?

16 A. I don't know the answer to that

17 question. 18 Q. Was she an owner of that company? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. Why would you show her name as the 21 employer as opposed to the corporation? 22 A. I identified her name and the 23 corporation. She was the point of contact with 24 the corporation.

Page 37 1 Q. But in looking at the prior six 2 pages, I don't see where any particular name is 3 associated with any of the prior companies we 4 just talked about. 5 A. I don't know, other than at the time 6 she was the, I believe, the head of the 7 government relations department and would have 8 been my point of contact.

9 Q. Did you solicit her or did she 10 solicit you?

11 A. She solicited me.

12 Q. Did your firm just represent Mylan

13 Laboratories in a lobbying effort or generally

14 represent them?

15 A. No, as I stated a few minutes ago,

16 the firm had other work for Mylan, and this work

17 was generated out of that. 18 Q. And how often do you have to register 19 with -- I assume you're registering with the 20 state as a lobbyist? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. How often did you have to do that? 23 A. Every year or two, it's, as you see 24 at the top of the page, it's for the 2003-2004

Page 38 1 period. 2 * * * 3 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 4 Exhibit SS was marked for purposes of 5 identification.) 6 * * * 7 BY MR. ROBON: 8 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've

9 marked as Exhibit SS. 10 A. Thank you.

11 Q. This is another registration form,

12 just two weeks later, is it not, dated February 6 13 of '04?

14 MR. FLAHERTY: It's a copy of 15 the same one as you just showed him. It's a copy 16 of the last page of Exhibit RR.

17 MR. ROBON: I guess you're 18 right. I guess you're right. 19 BY MR. ROBON: 20 Q. Let's cancel SS. 21 I'll hand you a revised Defendant's 22 Exhibit SS, which is for the 2005-2006 time 23 frame. And this document is several pages thick, 24 correct?

Page 39 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. And does this contain the same type 3 of information, but it lists many, many 4 additional organizations that you're registered 5 for? 6 A. I don't know if it's many, many more, 7 but there are cover letters in this pile as well. 8 The law had changed, I believe, at this point,

9 for registering. 10 Q. On page 1.

11 A. Yes, sir.

12 Q. You're rendering lobbying services

13 for the timbering industry, correct?

14 A. Actually, that's for ImageTree

15 Corporation.

16 Q. Yeah, but on page 1 it says

17 "occupation or type," it says "timber industry;" 18 does it not? 19 A. That's a general description. 20 Actually, it was, and is, a group of young 21 scientists who have developed a method for 22 counting and assessing timber inventories. 23 So, yes, generally. 24 Q. Did you ever become a partner in the

Page 40 1 law firm of Spilman Thomas & Battle? 2 A. I did. 3 Q. And when was that? 4 A. I believe it was either 2004, 2005. 5 I'm sorry, I don't recall the exact year. 6 Q. You don't recall the year you became 7 a partner? 8 A. No. I joined the firm of counsel and

9 became a partner shortly thereafter. 10 Q. And on Exhibit SS, it says "Metro

11 Rentals, real estate development"?

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 Q. There's also Ohio Valley Health

14 Services & Education Corporation?

15 A. Yes, sir.

16 Q. There's also --- I don't know how you 17 pronounce it -- Uives, U-I-V-E-S, Corporation? 18 A. Unisys Corporation. 19 Q. Unisys, okay. 20 What do they do? 21 A. A lot of things, they're a large 22 international corporation, computing, technology. 23 Q. And then you got the Vandalia 24 Heritage Foundation.

Page 41 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. And you got West Virginians for 3 Infrastructure, Alliance Resource Partners, 4 Camden-Clark Memorial Hospital, and Information 5 Manufacturing Corporation, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. West Virginia Media? 8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. What was that? 10 A. As we discussed earlier, it's a

11 West Virginia media corporation.

12 Q. And then you got the Morgantown Area

13 Chamber of Commerce.

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. And then you have Heather Bresch

16 again.

17 A. At Mylan Laboratories, Inc., yes, 18 sir. 19 Q. And, again, out of all of these 15 or 20 20 companies that are registered, she is the only 21 one in Exhibit SS that you have her name above 22 the company name. Can you explain that to the 23 jury. 24 A. I don't think there's anything to

Page 42 1 explain, I'm sure it was just the way the form 2 was filled out. I didn't type up the original 3 forms, but I'm sure that's just how the forms 4 were filled out and carried over from year to 5 year. 6 Q. Well, for example, you got, in the 7 back here you have Branch Banking & Trust. 8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Wouldn't you normally designate an 10 individual from a bank so they would know who

11 you're really representing?

12 A. Not necessarily. A number of these

13 registrations, and one reason why there are more

14 than the year before is that during the, I think

15 it was the month of August in 2005 or '06, there

16 was a legislative interim meeting in Morgantown. 17 And the legislature came for its monthly interim 18 meeting to Morgantown. And during that time, 19 there were a number of events hosted by companies 20 and individuals. 21 And to host, under the new Ethics 22 Act, to host these events, the companies were 23 required to report these expenditures to the 24 state. And many of them asked me to register

Page 43 1 them for this one time, simply to report their 2 $200 donation to a legislative reception. So it 3 wasn't that, some of them were that was the only 4 registration I did, simply to accommodate local 5 businesses. 6 Q. And what was the filing fee for 7 registration for each one of these? 8 A. I'm not sure what it was. I'm sure

9 it's contained on one of these sheets. 10 Q. What percentage of the legal work of

11 the Spilman law firm was derived from lobbyists?

12 A. I don't know.

13 Q. What percentage of your personal

14 income in '96, '97 was from being a lobbyist?

15 MR. FLAHERTY: In '96, '97?

16 MR. ROBON: Yeah.

17 A. In '96? 18 BY MR. ROBON: 19 Q. I'm sorry. 20 2006, 2007. 21 A. I don't know. 22 Q. More than half? 23 A. I don't know the answer to that. I 24 did a lot of different work, a lot of government

Page 44 1 relations work and some other work with the firm. 2 Q. And would you explain to the jury 3 what a lobbyist really does in the state 4 legislature. 5 A. As we discussed earlier, the nature 6 of doing government relations work can be varied. 7 You work with clients, if they have issues 8 related to laws, either for or against certain

9 laws, or issues with regulatory agencies. And 10 you work to try and guide clients through that

11 process.

12 Q. You try to help them financially?

13 A. No.

14 Q. No?

15 A. Occasionally, but not, not really,

16 that's not really the purpose of lobbying.

17 Q. That would be one of the purposes; 18 would it not? 19 A. It could be. 20 Q. Did you charge hourly rates or a 21 percentage fee for your lobbying efforts? 22 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and 23 answered. 24 BY MR. ROBON:

Page 45 1 Q. In this second one. 2 A. In this second one what? 3 Q. In the second application, the more 4 recent one, that's the one you have in front of 5 you, SS. 6 A. I always charged an hourly rate. 7 Q. And no bonus fee? 8 A. No.

9 Q. What about your law firm? 10 A. What about it?

11 Q. Did they charge the same? You just

12 said you did.

13 A. To my knowledge. I don't know if

14 different lawyers have different arrangements or

15 not.

16 * * *

17 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 18 Exhibit TT was marked for purposes of 19 identification.) 20 * * * 21 BY MR. ROBON: 22 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've 23 marked as TT. 24 A. Thank you.

Page 46 1 Q. This is a registration, again, with 2 the state legislature, correct? 3 A. That's actually with the 4 West Virginia Ethics Commission. 5 Q. Right. 6 But it permits you to practice 7 lobbying before the state legislature, correct? 8 A. This does not.

9 Q. What does? 10 A. Well, there are a number of documents 11 in here, and there are a number of different

12 documents in here, not all are the same. There

13 are registration documents.

14 Q. Right, with different individual

15 clients.

16 A. Yes, sir.

17 Q. And you show, what, A through M on 18 page 2, correct? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. And then you list a number of the 21 individual companies. 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. You even have a finance company, 24 CAMC -- a lot of hospital and healthcare issues,

Page 47 1 right? 2 A. I did a lot of healthcare work, yes, 3 sir. 4 Q. I notice here, about halfway through 5 exhibit TT, that you have Mylan Laboratories, 6 Inc., but you don't have Heather Bresch's name on 7 here. 8 A. Uh-huh.

9 Q. You have "authorized signature" as 10 "Leah L. Summers."

11 A. Yes, sir.

12 Q. Who is she?

13 A. She is an employee at Mylan. She was 14 at the time executive director of government

15 relations, I believe.

16 Q. And what was Heather Bresch's

17 position at that time? 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. Who did you do most of your 20 contacting with with that company, Heather or 21 somebody else? 22 A. Initially, I did some work with 23 Heather, but, really, after my first year, I 24 worked primarily with Leah Summers.

Page 48 1 Q. And is this a true and accurate 2 description of what you filed? 3 A. I'm not sure if it is or not, but it 4 looks -- 5 Q. Looks like it? 6 A. Looks like what would be filed. And 7 it's actually a termination notice, on top. I 8 terminated my lobbying clients once I was named

9 as president-elect of West Virginia University. 10 Q. This is dated April 20 of '07,

11 correct?

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 Q. And when were you named as president

14 of West Virginia University?

15 A. April 13, 2007.

16 Q. So you, when did you know you were

17 going to be named? 18 A. April 13, 2007. 19 Q. So this is one week or after. 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. That you gave notice. 22 A. I terminated my lobbying 23 representation of all my lobbying clients. 24 Q. Is there a reason that instead of

Page 49 1 terminating the relationship, it wasn't 2 transferred to somebody else within your law 3 firm? 4 A. I'm not suggesting that it wasn't. I 5 just terminated my own registration as a lobbyist 6 at that time. 7 Q. You don't know if someone in the law 8 firm reregistered themselves for these clients?

9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. You wouldn't have saw to it that that 11 occurred?

12 A. I don't recall. I just --

13 Q. Were you bought out of the law firm?

14 A. I'm not sure I understand your

15 question.

16 Q. Well, when you left to become

17 president of the University, did the law firm -- 18 -- is was an asset, was it not, of yours? 19 A. I was a member of the firm, yes, sir. 20 Q. Right. 21 I mean didn't you have a capital 22 account? 23 A. More or less. But I received payment 24 up until the time I left the law firm.

Page 50 1 Q. Did you get paid for receivables that 2 had been uncollected and equipment that was 3 purchased at the law firm? You know, tables, 4 chairs, copy machines, computers, television, 5 chairs? 6 A. No, I just received a check my last 7 day of work. 8 Q. What percentage of your time in 2006

9 up to April 13 of '07 was working for the law 10 firm?

11 A. Of what time?

12 Q. Your time.

13 A. That was the only job I had.

14 Q. So 100 percent of your time?

15 A. 100 percent of my time as employment

16 time, yes, sir.

17 Q. Now, were you on any other 18 commissions or committees while you were at the 19 law firm, 2004 to 2007? 20 A. I'm sure I was. I was on the 21 West Virginia Higher Education Policy Commission, 22 and may have been on others. 23 Q. Were you appointed to that position? 24 A. I was.

Page 51 1 Q. By Governor Wise? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. And is that the commission that 4 oversees the Board of Governors? 5 A. It does not oversee the Board of 6 Governors. 7 Q. What's its function? 8 A. It advises and directs on general

9 higher education policy throughout the state of 10 West Virginia.

11 Q. But who does it advise and direct?

12 A. Colleges and universities, at

13 different capacities, depending upon which

14 college or university you're referring to.

15 Q. And are there mostly academic people

16 on that commission?

17 A. No. 18 Q. Mostly laypeople? 19 A. There's a variety of different 20 appointees given any particular point in time. 21 Q. Is it members of membership, by 22 appointment only? 23 A. No, there are some statutorily 24 required members.

Page 52 1 Q. From certain parts of the state? Are 2 they elected, is what I'm asking. 3 A. There are no elections, there are 4 statutorily required members. 5 Q. Like the president of the University 6 might be a member? 7 A. The president of the University would 8 never be a member.

9 Q. Would a member of the chairman of the 10 Board of Governors be a member?

11 A. No. They are separate entities.

12 Q. Which statutory positions would

13 require a person to be a member?

14 A. Secretary of Education in the Arts,

15 Superintendent of Schools, are two that I can

16 recall.

17 Q. And how many members are on the 18 committee? 19 A. I'm not sure of the number, I think 20 there are nine, total. But the number has 21 changed over the years. 22 Q. Does that committee help select 23 administrators at various institutions? 24 A. At some institutions, it does, at

Page 53 1 others, it does not. 2 Q. What about at West Virginia 3 University? 4 A. It does not. 5 Q. Was the fact that you were chairman 6 of this Higher Education Committee? 7 A. I ultimately was elected chairman. 8 Q. By the committee?

9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. When you were -- you are appointed to 11 the presidency, correct, of West Virginia

12 University?

13 A. Is that a question?

14 Q. Yes.

15 A. Could you repeat your question,

16 please.

17 Q. Yeah. 18 You were appointed? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Effective April 13. 21 A. Yes, sir, that was the day I was 22 appointed. 23 Q. Were you sworn in the same day? 24 A. No, I was not.

Page 54 1 Q. Sworn in later. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. When did you resign from the Higher 4 Education Committee, or did you? 5 A. I did. I resigned from the Higher 6 Education Policy Commission sometime in January 7 or February of 2007. I can't recall the exact 8 date, I'm sorry.

9 Q. Is one of the purposes of the Higher 10 Education Policy Commission to help with searches 11 for college presidents?

12 A. If asked, it could.

13 Q. And did the commission that you were

14 chairman of do that?

15 A. If asked, it did do that.

16 Q. Well, did it do that, in fact, while

17 you were chairman? 18 A. I'm not sure I understand your 19 question. 20 Q. My question is: While you were 21 chairman of the Higher Education Policy 22 Commission -- 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. -- did you at any time assist in the

Page 55 1 location of a president for one of the state 2 universities? 3 A. Me, personally? 4 Q. Yeah. 5 The commission? 6 A. No, I did not. 7 Q. The commission? 8 A. I'm not sure if there were

9 commissioners that participated directly in 10 searches or not. Those are handled at the local

11 level, at the college and universities, with the

12 local boards of governors.

13 Q. And my understanding was that you

14 became a candidate for the presidency at West

15 Virginia University.

16 A. Ultimately, I became a candidate.

17 Q. And would you explain to the jury how 18 you became a candidate. 19 A. I was, there was a search for 20 president of West Virginia University, and I had 21 been nominated. 22 Q. By? 23 A. I don't know. 24 I was contacted by the search firm,

Page 56 1 to tell me I had been nominated. 2 Q. A head-hunter firm? 3 A. They're a search firm. 4 And to tell me I had been nominated, 5 to indicate what the job entailed, that there was 6 a search, and if I cared to accept that 7 nomination, that I should send my information to 8 the search firm.

9 Q. And did you do that? 10 A. Ultimately, I did.

11 Q. Ultimately.

12 How long, between the time you were

13 contacted and the time you submitted your

14 information?

15 A. I believe I was notified that I had

16 been nominated in mid to late December of 2006.

17 And I recall that I submitted my information in 18 mid January of 2007. There was a deadline. 19 Q. When did you terminate your 20 membership on the Higher Education Policy 21 Committee? 22 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and 23 answered. 24 BY MR. ROBIN:

Page 57 1 Q. What day? 2 A. I'm not sure of the exact day. 3 Q. It would have been in '07, correct? 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 Q. Can you tell us which month. 6 A. I can't remember the exact months. 7 It was either -- I really don't recall the month, 8 I don't want to guess. But it was certainly in

9 the first -- 10 Q. It's less than a year-and-a-half ago. 11 A. I don't recall the exact month, but

12 it was certainly in the first part of '07.

13 Q. Did the Higher Education Policy

14 Commission, was it involved in the search for a

15 president at West Virginia University?

16 A. No, there was a search committee for

17 the president of West Virginia University. 18 Q. Search committee from the Higher 19 Education Policy? 20 A. No, sir. 21 Q. Where was the search committee? 22 A. The search committee was at WVU. 23 Q. From the Board of Governors? 24 A. Some of the members were from the

Page 58 1 Board of Governors. 2 Q. And who were the other members? 3 A. They were from throughout the 4 University, and other individuals. I don't 5 recall every member of the search committee. 6 Q. Had you run for any public office? 7 A. No, sir. 8 Q. And the salary that you received at

9 West Virginia is roughly, what, a quarter-million 10 a year?

11 A. My current salary?

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. Is $255,000 a year.

14 Q. And how does that compare with the

15 income that you were making at Spilman law firm?

16 A. It depends on the year.

17 Q. You never made that much money 18 previously, correct? 19 A. I had. 20 Q. You had? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. How many years? 23 A. I don't recall how many years. 24 Q. And you're telling the jury there's

Page 59 1 no connection between the Higher Education Policy 2 Commission and the search committee for West 3 Virginia University? 4 A. I did not say that. 5 Q. Well, that's what I'm asking. I 6 thought I heard you say that. 7 A. That's incorrect. 8 Q. Explain to me the connection.

9 A. Well, the Higher Education Policy 10 Commission did not name the search committee for

11 the university president. And to my knowledge,

12 there were no members of the West Virginia Higher 13 Education Policy Commission on the search

14 committee.

15 I'm sure at some point the chancellor 16 had a role, perhaps an advisory role, with the

17 search committee. But that's, that's the extent 18 of my knowledge for the involvement of the Policy 19 Commission on the search committee. 20 Q. Did you sort of have an inside tract 21 since you were on that committee? 22 A. No. In fact, the Board of Governors 23 and the search committee are the ones who make 24 the decision, not the Higher Education Policy

Page 60 1 Commission. 2 Q. No, but you were more visible, being 3 on the Higher Education Policy Committee, 4 correct? 5 A. More visible than who? 6 Q. Than somebody that lived in another 7 state that wanted to be president of the West 8 Virginia University.

9 A. I'm not sure I know the answer to 10 that question.

11 Q. Did you look at the Higher Education

12 Policy Commission as a political position or an

13 educational position or both?

14 A. It was a political appointment, but

15 it dealt with education policy.

16 Q. Was there compensation on that

17 committee? 18 A. No. There was the potential for 19 reimbursement for travel and expenses. 20 Q. Did you have a staff that you had 21 work for you? 22 A. Where at? 23 Q. At that commission. 24 A. The commission has a staff in the

Page 61 1 office. 2 Q. A paid staff. 3 A. Yes, they're paid. 4 Q. Did you use the staff? 5 A. If I had questions or needs, I would 6 call upon the staff or the chancellor for those 7 questions. 8 Q. Is the chancellor like the head of

9 the Policy Commission? 10 A. The chancellor would be the

11 equivalent of the executive director of the

12 Policy Commission, yes, sir.

13 Q. And what would you do on a day-to-day 14 basis for the Higher Education Policy Committee?

15 A. Oh, I didn't work on a day-to-day

16 basis for it, I would, it was a part-time

17 appointment. 18 Q. How many hours a week did you donate? 19 A. Maybe, maybe six to eight hours a 20 week, sometimes more, sometimes less. Some 21 weeks, no hours. Depending upon the issue and 22 the frequency of the meetings. 23 Q. And did it deal with just the state 24 university?

Page 62 1 A. No, it deals with all public colleges 2 and universities throughout West Virginia. 3 Q. Whether they're state owned or not? 4 Or state operated, I should say. 5 MR. WAKEFIELD: You said 6 "public". 7 A. Public. 8 BY MR. ROBON:

9 Q. So you're saying state operated. 10 A. Yes.

11 Q. How many universities are there?

12 A. Well, there are, I don't remember the 13 number that were under the Commission at that

14 time. They're all public colleges and

15 universities. The community and technical

16 colleges are separated out now, under the

17 Community and Technical College Commission. And 18 so that number varies, and it varied at the time 19 because there's been legislative changes since 20 that time. 21 Q. Are you familiar with the Ohio Board 22 of Regents? 23 A. I'm not really all that familiar 24 with --

Page 63 1 Q. You're not familiar with that? 2 A. -- Ohio. 3 * * * 4 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 5 Exhibit UU was marked for purposes of 6 identification.) 7 * * * 8 BY MR. ROBON:

9 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've 10 marked as Exhibit UU.

11 Is this a report that was required by 12 state law when you were a lobbyist that had to be 13 filled out for entertainment expenses?

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. And this first page, it says there

16 was a Radison Hotel reception for RMS Strategies

17 that spent roughly $32,000. 18 A. It was not a reception for RMS 19 Strategies. 20 Q. What was the reception for? 21 A. As I explained earlier, there was a 22 legislative interim session, and I believe this 23 was one of the various sponsors for that 24 legislative interim session that required

Page 64 1 reporting to the Ethics Commission. 2 Q. Is there a dollar limit, you know, if 3 you spend more than 100 bucks or something, that 4 you have to file a report? 5 A. Now that, the limit, I believe, is 6 first dollar in. 7 Q. First dollar in. 8 A. I believe so, yes.

9 Q. When you were a lobbyist, what was 10 the figure?

11 A. I can't recall.

12 Q. Well, there's one here for 150 bucks, 13 so it had to at least be that, right?

14 A. I can't speculate to that.

15 Q. And this just shows the various

16 companies that contributed to the dollar figure?

17 A. Yes. 18 And I was contacted by a number of 19 them because they, they wanted advice on whether 20 they had to report these expenditures. And I 21 worked closely with the West Virginia Ethics 22 Commission to make sure it was done properly, and 23 followed their guidelines to do that. 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Four

Page 65 1 minutes on the tape. 2 * * * 3 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 4 Exhibit VV was marked for purposes of 5 identification.) 6 * * * 7 BY MR. ROBON: 8 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've

9 marked VV, as in "Victor." This is a letter from 10 your law firm dated September 15 of 2006. And

11 what is it enclosing to the Ethics Commission?

12 A. An activity report.

13 Q. And what's the purpose of an activity 14 report?

15 A. I believe they're due quarterly to

16 the Ethics Commission by anyone who's a

17 registered lobbyist, to report any required 18 lobbying activity during that time period. 19 Q. And doesn't it show contributions for 20 campaigns, on page 2? 21 A. It can. 22 I'm not sure if this one does. 23 Q. Well, on page 2, doesn't it show 24 $3,579.45?

Page 66 1 A. It does. Under "contributions" it 2 says "campaigns," yes, sir. 3 Q. Do you remember whose campaign there 4 was a contribution to? 5 A. No, I don't. And it could have been 6 reported on behalf of a client as well, it wasn't 7 necessarily my own. 8 Q. And the lobbyist report list of

9 companies, it looks like it continues to grow. 10 Originally --

11 A. What page are you referring to, sir?

12 Q. I'm referring to this page right

13 here.

14 A. Okay.

15 Q. The prior report stopped at "M," this 16 one goes all the way up to "Y." So it's about

17 twice as many as you had in 2004. 18 A. Again, to be clear, there was an 19 addition, in large part, because of the number of 20 one-time reports needed someone who was a 21 registered lobbyist to report on their 22 expenditures for legislative interim, and that 23 was my only representation on them. 24 Q. On the last page of Exhibit VV, it

Page 67 1 shows a contribution by Mylan of $2,500. 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. And it says "employer," and has the 4 figure "3" written. What does that mean? 5 A. I don't know what that means, I'm, I 6 don't know. I don't know what that means. 7 Q. Do you know what that contribution 8 was for?

9 A. At the top of the page, it says 10 "legislative reception."

11 Q. For all the state legislators?

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Two

14 minutes.

15 MR. ROBON: Let's go ahead

16 and change tapes.

17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 18 is 9:39 a.m. This concludes tape one. We're 19 going off the record. 20 * * * 21 (Break) 22 * * * 23 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 24 Exhibit WW was marked for purposes of

Page 68 1 identification.) 2 * * * 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 4 is 10:27 a.m., we are back on the record. This 5 is the beginning of tape two. 6 BY MR. ROBON: 7 Q. Mr. Garrison, I'm handing you 8 Exhibit WW, which is another lobbyist activity

9 report, dated 2006. Is that a true copy of what 10 you had filed?

11 A. I believe it is.

12 Q. And are you still a licensed attorney 13 here in West Virginia?

14 A. I am.

15 Q. You've maintained your license. Do

16 you have to maintain CLE --

17 A. I have. 18 Q. -- hours? 19 Do you recognize that as a licensed 20 attorney you're an officer of the court? 21 A. I do. 22 Q. And are you familiar with the canons 23 of ethics? 24 A. Generally, yes, sir.

Page 69 1 Q. Are you familiar with what happens if 2 there's a violation of the canons of ethics? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Have you ever been accused of any 5 violation of the canons of ethics? 6 A. No. To my knowledge, no. 7 Q. Have you ever been involved in any 8 lawsuit, personally?

9 A. Personally, no. 10 Q. Have you ever tried a lawsuit?

11 A. I have tried, participated in the

12 trial of a number of lawsuits.

13 Q. As a main trial lawyer or a

14 second-chair lawyer?

15 A. Normally, second chair. On occasion, 16 main trial lawyer, on some earlier trials in my

17 career. 18 Q. Are you just licensed in 19 West Virginia? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Are you licensed in the Federal U.S. 22 District Court? 23 MR. FLAHERTY: Admitted to 24 practice?

Page 70 1 A. Admitted to practice there. 2 BY MR. ROBON: 3 Q. Are you admitted in the, it's the 4 Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals? 5 A. That is the circuit here in, that 6 West Virginia belongs to, yes, sir. 7 Q. Are you admitted there? 8 A. I do not believe I'm admitted in the

9 Fourth Circuit. I've never been before the 10 Fourth Circuit.

11 Q. Did you pass the bar exam the first

12 time?

13 A. Yes, sir.

14 Q. What percentage of people pass in

15 West Virginia?

16 A. I don't know that number, sir.

17 Q. And you are familiar with the parol 18 evidence rule? 19 A. Generally, yes, sir. 20 Q. And have been for, since law school? 21 A. Generally, yes. 22 Q. When you were the chief of staff for 23 Governor Wise, you went -- give me those years 24 again.

Page 71 1 A. When I was chief of staff for 2 Governor Wise? 3 Q. Right. 4 A. May of 2001 until October of 2003. 5 Q. When did you register as a lobbyist? 6 A. I don't remember the exact date of 7 registration, but it was after I left the 8 governor's office.

9 Q. Is there a waiting period by state 10 law, or regulations, that you have to step out

11 and not go from a government position to a

12 private position in lobbying?

13 A. There is, there are currently some

14 laws on the books, I don't know exactly what they 15 are.

16 Q. So you don't know if you complied

17 with those or not? 18 A. I did, at the time, yes, sir. 19 Q. But you didn't know what they were? 20 A. No, I did know that I complied with 21 the laws at the time, yes, sir. 22 Q. Who was on the search team for the 23 presidency at West Virginia University? 24 A. There were a number of people.

Page 72 1 Q. Well, who do you recall that was on 2 it? 3 A. I recall the chairman was Steve 4 Goodwin; Steve Farmer from the Board of 5 Governors; Robert Wells from the Board of 6 Governors; Julian Bailes, who's a neurosurgeon at 7 WVU; Dean Mary Ellen Mazey, who's the dean of 8 Arts and Sciences; Joan Stamp was on it. And

9 there were a few others, several others, 10 actually, I don't recall every single person on

11 it.

12 Pareiz Famouri, who was from the

13 faculty senate, chair; and Terry Nebel, who was a 14 classified staff representative.

15 Q. And you indicated previously that you 16 didn't know who put your name up as a candidate. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Did you ever ask? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Did you put yourself up? 21 A. I did not. 22 Q. And who was the person or persons who 23 actually picked the search committee for the 24 presidency at West Virginia University?

Page 73 1 A. I don't know. 2 Q. Would that have been the governor's 3 office? 4 A. I don't know. I would strongly doubt 5 that. 6 Q. When you left Steptoe & Johnson, you 7 were not a partner, correct? 8 A. Correct.

9 Q. When you left the Spilman law firm, 10 you were a partner.

11 A. Correct.

12 Q. Did you have a buyout provision in

13 the operating agreement of the limited liability

14 company for the law firm?

15 A. No, sir.

16 Q. It was, nothing was in writing?

17 A. We have general membership 18 agreements. 19 Q. Were they in writing? 20 A. I signed a membership agreement, that 21 would have been in writing. 22 Q. Becoming a member of the firm. 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. And what provisions were there when

Page 74 1 you left for a buyout? 2 A. I don't recall any. 3 Q. So you just left, and whatever assets 4 you made for the firm, stayed there. 5 A. I was paid until the day I left the 6 firm. 7 Q. You were paid a draw? 8 A. That's one way to describe it, yes,

9 sir. 10 Q. What about the receivables that you

11 had created, working as a lobbyist for the law

12 firm, and the equipment, computers, office

13 improvements, physical assets? You never got

14 reimbursed for those?

15 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and

16 answered.

17 A. I was paid until the day I left, and 18 that was based upon my monthly draw. 19 BY MR. ROBON: 20 Q. So there was no lump-sum payment. 21 A. I don't recall if there was a lump 22 sum, I received a check at the end of my 23 employment there at the law firm. 24 Q. But was the check for more than your

Page 75 1 weekly or monthly draw? 2 A. It would have been for whatever was 3 in my account as a member at the firm. 4 Q. Your capital account. 5 A. I'm not sure that's what, what it was 6 called, but I had an account at the firm, as a 7 member. 8 Q. Was that your only experience in a

9 buyout situation, personally? 10 A. That was not anything I would

11 describe as a buyout.

12 Q. Have you ever been involved,

13 personally, in a buyout of a business or

14 operation or an asset investment?

15 A. No, I'm not sure, I'm not sure what

16 your question is.

17 Q. Well, somebody builds an apartment 18 building and says, "Mike, I want you to be a 19 25 percent owner," and you put up a few hundred 20 bucks and sign your name to the bank, and part of 21 the building is built, and all of a sudden, you 22 don't want to be an apartment building owner and 23 you say, "Buy me out." 24 A. No, I have not been. Not that I can

Page 76 1 recall, I have not had no other business 2 interests at that time. 3 Q. Did you ever represent a client while 4 you were at Steptoe & Johnson or the Spilman law 5 firm in a buyout of a man or gentleman or 6 individual or woman's company asset business? 7 A. I may have been involved with a 8 matter, but I don't recall it specifically, I

9 really just can't recall. 10 Q. So you're not real familiar with the

11 terms of a buyout.

12 A. That's not correct.

13 Q. That's not correct.

14 And how would you be familiar with

15 one if you never did one?

16 A. I know what a, what you're referring

17 to as a buyout or liquidated damages clause is, 18 but I don't recall if I ever worked on a specific 19 matter that included one, in my practice of law. 20 Q. Well, a buyout necessarily wouldn't 21 be an employment contract. I'm referring to 22 business matters where a partner wants to retire 23 and he says, "Buy my interest out of the 24 remaining partners." Did you ever do that?

Page 77 1 A. As mentioned, I don't recall whether 2 I was involved with a matter like that or not, or 3 a matter that included something like that even. 4 Q. When you were at the Spilman law firm 5 or the Steptoe & Johnson law firm, did you ever 6 prepare a service contract, where an individual 7 agrees to go to work for a company, either in a 8 sales capacity or executive capacity, and gets an

9 employment agreement? 10 A. I've worked on employment agreements

11 in the past, yes, sir.

12 Q. Can you tell the jury roughly how

13 many you worked on.

14 A. I don't recall how many I worked on.

15 Q. Was it more or less than a dozen?

16 A. I can't recall the number, sir.

17 Q. You have no idea? 18 A. I can't recall the number. I worked 19 in labor and employment law, generally, more on 20 the litigation side, but I'm certain I worked on 21 matters that may have involved those documents, 22 preparation of or review of. 23 Q. And did you ever litigate an 24 employment contract?

Page 78 1 A. I can't recall whether I litigated an 2 employment contract or not. I know that I worked 3 on matters that involved employment contracts. I 4 don't know how many. 5 Q. How many employment contracts did, 6 that you worked on in since 1996, when you joined 7 Steptoe & Johnson, until you left the Spilman law 8 firm in 2007? That would be, what, 11 years?

9 How many employment contracts did you 10 see that had a liquidated damages provision in

11 them?

12 A. I don't recall. And I was not

13 practicing law during that entirety of 11 years,

14 either, for the record.

15 Q. Well, you were working as chief of

16 staff.

17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. But as a lawyer. 19 A. That did not include the practice of 20 law, nor did the Secretary of Tax & Revenue. 21 Q. By the way, how did you get advanced 22 from the Secretary of Tax & Revenue to being 23 chief of staff? 24 A. The governor had an interim chief of

Page 79 1 staff during the period from January, or really 2 from the period he was elected governor in 3 November, until roughly May of 2001. And he 4 asked me if I would be interested in moving into 5 that position, and I accepted. 6 Q. Did someone assist you in getting 7 that position? 8 A. I don't know if someone assisted me

9 or not. I believe, I was told it was based upon 10 my work and my performance as Secretary of Tax &

11 Revenue.

12 Q. And how did you get the initial

13 appointment as Secretary of Tax & Revenue?

14 A. I was asked to consider serving in

15 the Wise administration, and I considered the

16 opportunity, and I accepted it.

17 Q. Did you work on his campaign? 18 A. I did not. I served as, I did not 19 campaign for him, I served from time to time as 20 counsel for the campaign, along with others. 21 Q. Was the Spilman law firm upset when 22 you left? 23 A. Was the Spilman law firm upset? 24 Q. Uh-huh. Or any of its members?

Page 80 1 A. Not to my knowledge. I had a great 2 experience there, and it's a wonderful law firm. 3 They were very happy for me. 4 Q. And Spilman actually wanted you to be 5 a lobbyist, and Steptoe & Johnson did not? 6 A. I don't recall that. 7 Q. Well, when you went to, you went to 8 Steptoe & Johnson twice, right?

9 A. I started my career at Steptoe & 10 Johnson.

11 Q. And left and then came back.

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 Q. And you were basically stuck in a

14 back room.

15 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the

16 form of the question.

17 A. I never stated that. In fact, had a 18 great experience, Steptoe & Johnson is a great 19 firm. I made a number of very good professional 20 and personal contacts there, which I still enjoy 21 today, and learned a lot of skills there. 22 23 BY MR. ROBON: 24 Q. Well, I would expect you would, it's

Page 81 1 a good law firm. 2 But my question is: Spilman hired 3 you as an attorney for the purpose of being a 4 lobbyist because you had contacts in the state 5 government, correct? 6 A. That's incorrect. Spilman hired me 7 as an attorney with the law firm, and there were 8 occasions to represent clients in the government

9 relations arena. 10 Q. How soon after you joined the Spilman 11 law firm did you register as a lobbyist with the

12 state?

13 A. I do not recall the exact date.

14 Q. Shortly thereafter?

15 A. The Ethics Commission would have

16 documentation of that.

17 Q. I want you to look at the third page 18 of Exhibit WW, it has a list of employer 19 organizations that you represented as a lobbyist 20 back in September of 2006. And I want you to 21 tell the jury which members of the Board of 22 Governors have a financial interest or an 23 ownership interest or a management interest in 24 those companies, and list the company.

Page 82 1 A. Platinum Properties, I know has one 2 of its partners, Parry Petroplus, who is a member 3 of the Board of Governors. 4 Q. Any other -- that's number 5 out of 5 27. 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. Any other companies? 8 A. Can you restate your question again.

9 Q. My question is: People that are on 10 the Board of Governors of West Virginia

11 University, do any of them have any financial

12 interest in, or are they an officer in or a

13 manager in any of these 27 companies?

14 You identified one.

15 A. Yes. I know of no others, there

16 could be, but I may not be aware of their

17 financial interests in any of these companies. 18 MR. WAKEFIELD: For the 19 record, some of these aren't even companies. 20 MR. ROBON: Or organizations. 21 A. Yes. 22 23 BY MR. ROBON: 24 Q. Well, I said employer or

Page 83 1 organizations, at the time. 2 A. Well, for instance, the Morgantown 3 Area Economic Partnership, there may or may not 4 be, I just am not aware. 5 Q. What about Mylan Laboratories, do you 6 have any ownership interest in that company? 7 A. I do not. 8 Q. Did you ever?

9 A. I have never. 10 Q. How often did you see Heather Bresch?

11 A. During what time period?

12 Q. During 2000 to 2007.

13 A. Probably once or twice a year.

14 Q. At social functions or business

15 functions?

16 A. It would depend.

17 Q. Were you an attorney for their 18 company? 19 A. During my time at Spilman Thomas & 20 Battle, I did serve as an attorney for Mylan 21 Pharmaceuticals. 22 Q. And was Heather Bresch the contact 23 person, principally? 24 A. Initially, she was, during the first

Page 84 1 year of my representation in 2003, 2004. And 2 after that, she was not very involved. 3 Q. How many members of the Board of 4 Governors, back in April of 2007, when you were 5 selected, did you personally know? 6 A. I don't know the exact number. 7 Q. More than half? 8 A. I may have known more than half, I

9 just don't know the exact number. 10 Q. And can you tell the jury under what

11 circumstances you would have known more than half 12 of the members of the Board of Governors, as a

13 lobbyist.

14 A. I didn't say I knew any of them as a

15 lobbyist, necessarily.

16 Q. Well, that was your occupation.

17 A. No, my occupation was an attorney. 18 Q. Attorney/lobbyist. 19 A. No, my occupation is an attorney. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. Who did some government relations 22 work in lobbying. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. Or was an attorney.

Page 85 1 Q. Okay. 2 And the Spilman firm was here in 3 Morgantown? 4 A. There is an office in Morgantown. 5 Q. But the main office is in Charleston? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. Most of the Board of Governors' 8 members live in the Morgantown area, or not?

9 A. Define "most." 10 Q. More than half.

11 A. I don't believe so.

12 Q. What, about the other half live in

13 Charleston?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Several of them live in Charleston.

16 A. I didn't say the first half lived in

17 Morgantown. 18 Q. Well, why don't you tell us what 19 percentage you believe live in Morgantown, what 20 percentage you believe live in Charleston. 21 A. I don't know. 22 Q. Give me a rough number. Three or 23 four? 24 A. I don't know the percentage. If you

Page 86 1 ask a name, I'm sure I can tell you where they 2 live. 3 Q. Parry Petroplus lives in Morgantown. 4 A. Who's that? 5 Q. Petroplus. 6 A. He lives in Morgantown. 7 Q. And Steve Goodwin lives where? 8 A. He lives in Morgantown.

9 Q. Steve Farmer? 10 A. Lives in Charleston.

11 Q. Can you tell the jury how you came to 12 know several of the members of the Board of

13 Governors. Was it through political connections, 14 through social events?

15 A. In a variety of ways.

16 Q. So were you interviewed by the Board

17 of Governors? 18 A. About what? 19 Q. Your new job as president. 20 A. When? 21 Q. Back in March or April of 2007. 22 A. Ultimately, I was interviewed by the 23 Board of Governors as a candidate for the 24 presidency.

Page 87 1 Q. And that was, happened here in 2 Morgantown? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. And can you tell the jury how many of 5 the members, when you interviewed, did you 6 personally know or had business dealings with. 7 A. I cannot tell, I cannot recall how 8 many I may have, if any. I certainly had some

9 business dealings with a few of them, but I don't 10 know an exact number, and did not know all the

11 Board of Governors at the time.

12 Q. At the interview process?

13 A. That's correct.

14 Q. Was there a committee?

15 A. Pardon me?

16 Q. Was there an interview committee on

17 the Board of Governors, a select, few people? 18 A. It was the entire board that I met 19 with, after interviewing with the search 20 committee. 21 Q. Who was on the search committee that 22 you interviewed with? 23 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and 24 answered.

Page 88 1 MR. ROBON: I didn't ask 2 that, I asked who he interviewed with. 3 A. I interviewed with the entire search 4 committee, and I did my best earlier to identify 5 as many of those members as I could remember. 6 BY MR. ROBON: 7 Q. Did you hire a PR firm to represent 8 you with respect to trying to obtain the position

9 of president of West Virginia University? 10 A. I did not.

11 Q. You did not?

12 A. No, sir.

13 Q. Did you ask the assistance of a PR

14 firm?

15 A. I did not.

16 Q. When did you feel it was necessary

17 that you resign your position on the, the head of 18 the -- 19 MR. FLAHERTY: Higher Ed 20 Policy. 21 Q. -- Higher Ed Policy Commission? 22 A. As stated earlier, I'm not sure of 23 the exact date, but I'm sure the Policy 24 Commission could tell you that. I sent a letter.

Page 89 1 Q. Were you fairly certain by that time 2 that you would be nominated for the position of 3 president of West Virginia University? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Who else were principal candidates, 6 besides yourself? 7 A. I know of two others. 8 Q. And what were their names?

9 A. The two other finalists, Duane Nellis 10 and Doctor Bernstein, I don't remember his first

11 name. Donald, I believe.

12 Q. Were they in state or out of state?

13 A. They were both from out of state.

14 Q. And what do you personally believe

15 got you the nod over the other two?

16 A. You'll have to ask the search

17 committee and the Board. 18 Q. No, but you must have a personal 19 belief, yourself? 20 A. I don't, I'm not sure what may or may 21 not have gotten me the job. 22 Q. Did you lobby for the job? 23 A. No. I accepted a nomination and went 24 through the application and review and interview

Page 90 1 process for the job. 2 Q. Did you call any of the Board of 3 Governor members before you were appointed? 4 A. No, I talked with them through the 5 interview process and saw them from time to time, 6 knew many of them, as stated earlier. 7 Q. So you did talk with them. 8 A. I talked with them as a matter of

9 course, and I interviewed with them as a body. 10 * * *

11 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition

12 Exhibit XX was marked for purposes of

13 identification.)

14 * * *

15 BY MR. ROBON:

16 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've

17 marked as XX. Is this the letter of employment 18 that you received from West Virginia University? 19 A. It appears to be, yes, sir. 20 Q. And who signed it on behalf of the 21 West Virginia University Board of Governors? 22 A. I can't make out that signature. I'm 23 sorry. 24 Q. Can you -- this is how many pages

Page 91 1 long here, five pages? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. Can you tell the jury on which page 4 there is a liquidated damages provision or a 5 covenant not to compete, in the event you decided 6 to leave West Virginia University. 7 A. I don't believe there is one in this 8 agreement.

9 Q. Is it fair to say that you have never 10 been a party to an agreement that contained a

11 liquidated damages provision?

12 A. I don't recall being a party to an

13 agreement that contained a liquidated damages

14 provision, personally.

15 Q. Is it fair to say that, as a lawyer

16 practicing law, that you never negotiated or

17 worked on a contract of employment that contained 18 a liquidated damages provision? 19 A. That's not fair to say. I don't 20 recall whether I was involved with a matter that 21 may or may not have contained a contract or 22 agreement that contained a liquidated damages 23 provision. 24 Q. But sitting here today, you can't

Page 92 1 recall for the jury any particular instance where 2 you did. 3 A. I don't recall a particular instance, 4 no, sir, but there could very well have been. 5 Q. Isn't it true, Mr. Garrison, that the 6 very first time that you saw a liquidated damages 7 provision was in the term sheet that West 8 Virginia University utilized in December of 2006,

9 involving head coach Richard Rodriguez? 10 And let me hand you Exhibit DD. Is

11 that the first time you actually saw a liquidated 12 damages number in a contract?

13 A. I cannot agree with that. It would

14 have been the first time that I had seen this

15 term sheet, would have been after being named as

16 president, and at some point during 2007. I

17 don't recall when it was. 18 Q. But you can't identify it for the 19 jury, any other contracts that you saw before 20 Exhibit DD, that contained a liquidated damages 21 provision in an employment contract, correct? 22 A. I can't identify them specifically. 23 I'm certain I knew what they were and had read 24 them.

Page 93 1 Q. When did you first become aware of 2 the existence of the term sheet, Exhibit DD, that 3 I just showed you? 4 A. I don't recall the date. 5 Q. Would it have been before or after 6 you took office? 7 A. Probably the first I heard about it 8 was reading about it in the newspaper, whenever

9 it was announced that Mr. Rodriguez had signed a 10 term sheet.

11 Q. And that would have been before you

12 were president.

13 A. Yes. But I don't recall the first

14 time I saw that term sheet. It certainly would

15 have been after being president, being named as

16 president.

17 Q. Can you explain to the jury, in a 18 lawyerly way, the difference between a penalty 19 and liquidated damages. 20 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 21 form of the question. 22 23 BY MR. ROBON: 24 Q. You can answer it.

Page 94 1 A. I -- 2 Q. As you understand it. 3 A. As I understand it, a liquidated 4 damages provision is included in a contract to 5 protect the parties from a loss or an unexpected 6 loss when damages are difficult to ascertain, and 7 it's agreed, it's an agreed-to amount. 8 Q. And you have been president of West

9 Virginia University for close to a year? 10 A. I was president-elect on July 1,

11 president on September 1.

12 Q. As president-elect, you acted as

13 president.

14 A. Not for the entire time as

15 president-elect, no, sir.

16 Q. Not from July 1?

17 A. No, sir. 18 Q. What was your position on August 24 19 of 2007? 20 A. President-elect. 21 Q. Did you have the authority of the 22 president? 23 A. In most matters, I had operational 24 authority, but not on all matters.

Page 95 1 Q. Did you have authority in the matter 2 involving the contract with Rich Rodriguez? 3 A. I did have authority, along with the 4 athletic director. 5 Q. And how would you differentiate the 6 authority to deal with the Rodriguez contract as 7 opposed to authority on other matters? 8 A. Well, by way of example, there was an

9 agreement, donation agreement signed between the 10 University and Dowell Corporation, to receive a

11 donation on August 20 of 2007. I was not party

12 to that. David Hardesty, the president, was.

13 And so that's one way to differentiate.

14 Q. Was there a directive from the Board

15 of Governors giving you authority to negotiate

16 the Rodriguez contract?

17 A. There was no directive, I had 18 operational authority of most matters related to 19 the University. 20 Q. But you didn't have the one for 21 Dowell? 22 A. No. It wasn't specifically exempt, 23 but that is an example of something I was not 24 involved with that was executed during that time.

Page 96 1 Q. Was it related to a dollar figure, 2 that you had authority up to a particular dollar 3 figure but not more than? 4 A. No, sir. 5 Q. How would the public find out what 6 you had authority to do and what you did not have 7 authority to do? 8 A. I had general operational authority

9 as of August 1 of 2007. 10 Q. But you indicated that general

11 operational authority did not include signing the 12 Dowell contract, President Hardesty did.

13 A. You asked for an example and I gave

14 you an example, yes, sir.

15 Q. What other examples did you not have

16 authority to do?

17 A. I don't recall any at this time. 18 Q. But where did those directives come 19 from? 20 A. It was from the Board, and at that 21 point, the current president or outgoing 22 president, David Hardesty, seceded operational 23 authority to me on approximately August 1, but 24 retained involvement in some matters, Dowell was

Page 97 1 one of them. 2 Q. And he seceded authority to you, was 3 there a written document or a memo? 4 A. There may have been, I don't recall. 5 It was certainly understood, but there may have 6 very well been a memo, I just don't recall. 7 Q. And is it your contention that it was 8 basically a handshake that you would take care

9 of -- 10 A. That's not my contention. It was my

11 understanding, and there could have been a memo,

12 I just don't recall.

13 Q. That's less than a year ago. You

14 don't know what, how your authority originated as 15 president of the University?

16 A. I was given operational authority as

17 of August 1, and it was understood by the current 18 president at that time that I would have 19 operational authority. 20 Q. And did he give you the operational 21 authority or did someone on the Board of 22 Governors give it to you? 23 A. It was a collective decision with the 24 outgoing president, the Board of Governors, and I

Page 98 1 was asked if I was ready to assume operational 2 authority, and I was. 3 Q. Was there a resolution passed by the 4 Board of Governors? 5 A. I don't believe so. 6 Q. Who in the Board of Governors told 7 you that you had operational authority? 8 A. I don't recall. It was more of a

9 discussion with the current, or former President 10 Hardesty, and an agreement.

11 Q. So if we look at the bylaws of West

12 Virginia University, the authority is vested in

13 the president, and you're saying that that

14 authority was passed on to you, but you have no

15 written documentation.

16 A. I did not say I have no written

17 documentations. You asked me if I recalled 18 whether there was, and I said I did not recall. 19 Q. So, well, that means you don't, if 20 you can't recall any, you don't have it. 21 A. That does not mean it. 22 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 23 form of the question. 24 BY MR. ROBON:

Page 99 1 Q. Are you suggesting that you need to 2 look and find the written operational directive 3 of authority? 4 A. I'm suggesting I don't recall whether 5 there is one or not, in response to your 6 question. 7 Q. Did you tell President Hardesty that 8 you were going to handle the negotiations on the

9 Rodriguez matter? 10 A. No, not to my recollection.

11 Q. What did you tell Coach Rodriguez

12 with regard to your authority?

13 A. When?

14 Q. In August of 2007.

15 A. I don't know if we discussed my

16 authority in August of 2007. I worked with and

17 met with Mr. Rodriguez as president of WVU. I 18 don't recall having any discussions with him 19 specifically about my authority. 20 Q. Well, you said you, Hardesty was 21 still president until September 1. 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. And you met with him at least six 24 weeks before that.

Page 100 1 A. Him? 2 Q. "Him" being Coach Rodriguez. 3 A. Oh, I'm sure I met with him 4 frequently. 5 Q. Right. 6 So my question is: What evidence or 7 documentation is available at the University that 8 we can look at to see what type of authority you

9 had to make representations to Coach Rodriguez, 10 as operational president?

11 A. I don't know. As stated earlier, I

12 don't know if there is a document, but there

13 certainly was an understanding. And the Board

14 may have made the understanding official, but

15 that I assumed operational control of the

16 University on August 1, 2007.

17 Q. So is it fair to say that when you 18 had meetings with him in July of 2007, you didn't 19 have operational authority as president? 20 A. I was president-elect and we were in 21 the transition period, David Hardesty was still 22 officially president. 23 Q. So the answer is no, you didn't have 24 authority.

Page 101 1 MR. FLAHERTY: The answer is 2 what he just gave you. 3 BY MR. ROBON: 4 Q. Well, I'm asking you, in your 5 opinion, did you have authority prior to August 1 6 to negotiate an employment contract with Richard 7 Rodriguez? And if you had authority, I want to 8 know where it emanated from.

9 A. I did not negotiate an employment 10 contract with Mr. Rodriguez prior to August 1. I 11 was president-elect effective July 1, I was

12 selected April 13, assumed operational control of 13 the University on most matters on August 1.

14 Q. Do you deny negotiating and having a

15 meeting with Coach Rodriguez and others after the 16 blessing of the field event in late July of 2007?

17 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 18 form of the question, it's a compound question. 19 A. I do recall a meeting with 20 Mr. Rodriguez and others, after the field was 21 blessed. I don't remember the date of that 22 meeting. 23 BY MR. ROBON: 24 Q. Do you know when the field is

Page 102 1 typically blessed? 2 A. I don't. It's the first time I had 3 been invited to such an event. 4 Q. When did Craig Walker become chief of 5 staff? 6 A. I think Craig was, started his 7 service as chief of staff on July, the first week 8 of July 2007. I don't remember the exact date.

9 Q. So was he chief of staff, 10 technically, for President Hardesty for a while?

11 A. No, he served as my chief of staff or 12 administrative assistant while I was interim

13 president.

14 Q. Is it fair to say that here at West

15 Virginia University there's lots of verbal

16 arrangements, like your being occupational

17 president -- operational president? 18 A. I don't think that's fair to say at 19 all. 20 Q. Are there lots of verbal 21 understandings? 22 A. I don't understand your question. 23 Q. Well, you've indicated you're not 24 sure there's a written document giving you

Page 103 1 authority as the operational president as of 2 August 1 of '07, correct? 3 A. I don't recall whether there is or 4 not. 5 Q. Right. 6 So if there's not, someone would have 7 verbally had to give you that authority, correct? 8 A. Assuming you're correct, and I don't

9 assume that you're correct. 10 Q. Well, can you prove me wrong?

11 MR. FLAHERTY: Can you prove

12 you're right?

13 BY MR. ROBON:

14 Q. Where would that document be if such

15 a document does exist? Let's ask that question. 16 A. I'm certain it would be in the,

17 either the Board of Governors or the transition 18 files at West Virginia University. 19 Q. Did you appoint legal counsel, in the 20 summer of 2007, to assist you at West Virginia 21 University? 22 A. I selected general counsel and 23 vice president of legal affairs at some point 24 during the summer of 2007.

Page 104 1 Q. And that's Alex Macia. 2 A. Alex Macia. 3 Q. And when did he start his employment? 4 A. I don't recall the date. 5 Q. Was it before or after September 1 of 6 '07? 7 A. I'm sure it would have been before. 8 Q. Did he have a written employment

9 agreement? 10 A. I'm sure he has a letter agreement, I 11 don't know --

12 Q. Similar to what you have?

13 A. -- the specifics of it.

14 I'm sure it's not as detailed as

15 mine.

16 Q. Does he have a liquidated damages

17 provision in his employment arrangement? 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. Do you know of any -- let me rephrase 20 the question. 21 How many employees does West Virginia 22 University have, approximately? 23 A. Please define "employee." 24 Q. People who receive a check from

Page 105 1 West Virginia University, faculty, service 2 people, janitors, professors. 3 A. There are approximately, between 4 7,500 and 10,000 employees, a broad range. It 5 depends on how you define "employee." 6 Q. And of that 10,000 employees -- 7 A. I didn't say 10,000, I said there was 8 a broad range.

9 Q. Oh, let's say -- 10 A. 75.

11 Q. -- several thousand.

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. Of those several thousand employees,

14 how many have written employment agreements,

15 approximately?

16 A. I don't know the approximate number. 17 Our faculty have appointment letters, many of the 18 nonclassified staff have appointment letters, but 19 I don't know the number. 20 Q. And how many colleges are there at 21 West Virginia University? 22 A. I don't know the exact number of how 23 many colleges there are. There are -- 24 Q. You don't? It's your own

Page 106 1 institution. 2 A. I could, trying to create a list, if 3 you like, but there are, there are several. 4 Q. There's a law school, there's a 5 medical school -- 6 A. There's a college of law, yes. 7 Q. But you're telling me right now you 8 don't know how many colleges there are?

9 A. I think there are roughly a dozen, I 10 don't know the exact number.

11 Q. And I assume each of those colleges

12 has a dean?

13 A. Most, all of the colleges and/or

14 schools have a dean.

15 Q. Do those deans have written

16 employment agreements?

17 A. Yes, they do. 18 Q. Can you tell me if any of those deans 19 have liquidated damage provisions in their 20 contracts? 21 A. I don't know. I don't prepare or 22 sign those contracts. 23 Q. Who would sign those contracts? 24 A. Normally it would be the provost.

Page 107 1 Q. But you cannot tell the jury that 2 you're aware of any to exist. 3 A. I said I don't know. 4 Q. In fact, can you list the employees 5 that do have liquidated damages provisions in 6 their contracts? 7 A. I don't know all the employees that 8 do have liquidated damages provisions, or some

9 form of a liquidated damages provision in their 10 contract. I know that there are employees that

11 do.

12 * * *

13 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition

14 Exhibit YY was marked for purposes of

15 identification.)

16 * * *

17 BY MR. ROBON: 18 Q. I'm going to hand you Exhibit YY. Is 19 this an excerpt from your calendar, starting in 20 July of 2007? 21 A. It would appear to be, yes, sir. 22 Q. And it kind of lists, for example, on 23 page 1, Monday, the 2nd of July, from 7:00 a.m. 24 through 5:30 p.m., the different things that you

Page 108 1 did, correct? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. So you're now president-elect in 4 July. 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. Correct? 7 Did dean -- or President Hardesty 8 leave the campus during July and August of '07?

9 A. He did not. I know he took some 10 vacation, I can't recall the specifics, but I

11 didn't move into the president's office for some

12 time.

13 Q. Where was your office during July and 14 August of 2007?

15 A. Campus, wherever I could find a

16 place. I used a conference room, and I was

17 pretty active, I wanted to get around campus, so 18 I was around campus a lot. 19 Q. Take a look at the third page, 20 Thursday, July 12. 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. It says: 1:00 to 2:00 p.m., Craig, 23 Parry, Drew, athletics. 24 A. Yes, sir.

Page 109 1 Q. Who is that? 2 A. It must have been Craig Walker, I 3 assume Parry Petroplus, and I don't know who Drew 4 is. 5 Q. But it said "athletics." 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. What would have been involved with 8 athletics at that time?

9 A. I don't recall, it could have been 10 any number of issues.

11 Q. And then later in the day, between

12 3:00 and 5:00 p.m., it says: Craig and Robin,

13 re: football.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Robin who?

16 A. Robin Yorki.

17 Q. And what's -- that's a he or a she? 18 A. That's a she. 19 Q. And what is her position? 20 A. Her position was head of events at 21 the University. 22 Q. And it says: re: football, PCR. 23 What does PCR mean? 24 A. President's conference room.

Page 110 1 Q. Was that a discussion involving Rich 2 Rodriguez's contract? 3 A. No, it was not. It was a discussion 4 involving the pregame events in the president's 5 suite, for support of the football team and 6 Mr. Rodriguez. 7 Q. Did you have a secretary during the 8 month of July, or administrative assistant?

9 A. I shared President Hardesty's 10 administrative assistant.

11 Q. Did you inform President Hardesty

12 that you had been negotiating with

13 Coach Rodriguez and his advisors?

14 A. I had not been negotiating with

15 Mr. Rodriguez and/or his advisors. And I don't

16 recall whether or not I informed

17 President Hardesty that I had been meeting with 18 Coach Rodriguez. 19 Q. My understanding is there was a 20 lawyer named Tom Doer, D-O-E-R, I believe it is, 21 that was general counsel for West Virginia 22 University during the first part of 2007. Is 23 that true? 24 A. Yes.

Page 111 1 Q. When was he replaced or terminated? 2 A. I don't know when the exact date was, 3 but he was replaced by Alex Macia, as stated 4 earlier. 5 Q. And you indicated Alex Macia started 6 in July. 7 A. I did not indicate that. 8 Q. When did he start?

9 A. I indicated that I did not recall. 10 You asked me if it was before September 1, I

11 indicated that it surely must have been.

12 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Doer the

13 status of the contract with Rich Rodriguez?

14 A. I did not.

15 Q. Did you direct Alex Macia to discuss

16 it with him?

17 A. I was aware that Alex had, at some 18 point. 19 Q. Was that of concern to you, in July 20 of 2007? 21 A. Was what of concern? 22 Q. The uncertainty of a contract with 23 your head football coach. 24 A. I was never uncertain that there was

Page 112 1 a contract with Mr. Rodriguez. 2 Q. Did you think there was a contract 3 existing? 4 A. I was aware that there was a signed 5 term sheet, yes, sir. 6 Q. Did you believe that the term sheet 7 was an enforceable instrument? 8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. Did you come to that in your own 10 conclusion as a lawyer?

11 A. No, I believe that based on

12 discussions, and it was a signed instrument. So, 13 yes, I suppose in part I did draw that

14 conclusion. And, frankly, I drew it, for the

15 most part, because the University was performing

16 under the term sheet, and had been for some time, 17 prior to my arrival as president. 18 Q. As far as increasing his salary? 19 A. As far as everything that the term 20 sheet included. 21 Q. When did you first become aware that 22 the final agreement hadn't been entered into 23 between West Virginia University and 24 Coach Rodriguez?

Page 113 1 A. I don't recall when I first became 2 aware of that, sir. 3 Q. How many other similar-type 4 agreements were left undone by the prior 5 administration? 6 A. I can't speculate on the number. 7 Q. Well, were there several things that 8 you had to wrap up when you took over as

9 president? 10 A. There were a number of things I had

11 to work on when I took over as president, yes,

12 sir.

13 Q. From the prior administration.

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. Tell us about the first time you met

16 Rich Rodriguez.

17 A. I'm not, I don't recall the first 18 time I met Mr. Rodriguez. I became aware of him 19 at a very early age, I would say in my early 20 teens, or even before I was a teenager. 21 Q. Was he an idol? 22 A. Was he an idol? No, he was a very 23 good athlete in Marion County, and I was, I 24 followed athletics and liked athletics and

Page 114 1 participated and was aware of Mr. Rodriguez being 2 a very good athlete at North Marion High School. 3 Q. Was he an athlete at West Virginia 4 University? 5 A. I was aware of that, yes. 6 Q. When did you first meet him after you 7 became president-elect? 8 A. I certainly knew him before I became

9 president-elect, and I don't know when I may have 10 met him after I became president-elect.

11 Q. When is the first time that you

12 recall having a meeting with Mr. Rodriguez or his 13 agents or advisors?

14 A. Well, that's a compound question. I

15 was in frequent contact with Mr. Rodriguez for a

16 variety of reasons, simply from a friend basis to 17 checking in, or he would check in with me. So I 18 don't recall the first time I may have met with 19 his advisors, if that's your question. It would 20 have likely been the summer of 2007. 21 Q. Do you recall how many times in 22 particular that you met with Mr. Rodriguez 23 accompanied by his advisors in 2007, in the 24 summer?

Page 115 1 A. I don't recall the number of times. 2 I do recall the first time I met, I don't 3 remember the date, but I do recall distinctly the 4 first time I met one of his advisors, Mr. Brown. 5 Q. Michael Brown? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And what distinguishes that 8 recollection?

9 A. Well, I was asked to come out to meet 10 with Mr. Rodriguez, and at that meeting Mr. Brown 11 was there, and it was an opportunity, as

12 described to me, to get to know him, and we spoke 13 for a little bit. And I distinctly remember some 14 things that Mr. Brown said during and after that

15 meeting to me, directly, as we walked out to the

16 parking lot.

17 Q. And that would have been in July? 18 A. It would have been in the summer of 19 2007. 20 Q. Was Mr. Brown the only one there, 21 plus Coach Rodriguez? 22 A. I don't recall if there were others 23 there or not. But I recall it because, during 24 that time, Mr. Brown was very direct about his

Page 116 1 intentions or his involvement with 2 Coach Rodriguez, as related to the Alabama head 3 coaching job. 4 And said to me specifically that he 5 pushed Mr. Rodriguez towards that job, that he 6 wanted him to take that job, that he would 7 continue to push Mr. Rodriguez toward other jobs, 8 did not believe that West Virginia University was

9 up to keeping, what he called -- and I was 10 surprised when he said this -- "Product

11 Rodriguez," and that there were other jobs. And

12 I just needed to, he wanted me to be aware that

13 he would continue to, as he put it, "shop" the

14 product on the market.

15 Q. And what were you asking of him?

16 A. I wasn't asking nothing of him, it

17 was a courtesy hello, and he walked out to the 18 parking lot with me and went into great detail 19 about how he would continue to "shop," as he put 20 it, "Product Rodriguez" on the open market. And 21 didn't, wasn't worried, as he described to me, 22 about the, the ties to West Virginia or ties to 23 WVU, because I'm sure at some point I said, "I 24 think this is a great opportunity and I'm proud

Page 117 1 to have Mr. Rodriguez here." 2 Q. Did you ever have a departing 3 interview with President Hardesty? 4 A. A departing interview? 5 Q. Yeah, where you asked him about what 6 things are remaining open that need to be done. 7 A transition meeting, I guess. 8 A. We had a number of transition

9 meetings, yes, sir. 10 Q. Why would you be meeting with Michael 11 Brown? Why wouldn't the athletic director, Ed

12 Pastilong, be meeting with Mr. Brown?

13 A. I did not initiate the meeting, I was 14 asked to visit Mr. Rodriguez's office and -- or

15 may have simply stopped by -- and Mr. Brown was

16 there and I was introduced to him, and he said

17 these things to me. 18 Q. At that point in time, did you 19 believe it was your position that you would do 20 the negotiations or handle the matter, or did you 21 believe that was something that should have been 22 handled by the director of athletics? 23 A. I believed that it was something that 24 was being handled and had been handled by the

Page 118 1 director of athletics. 2 Q. Okay. 3 So when Mr. Brown made these comments 4 to you, did you tell him to discuss it with the 5 director of athletics, Ed Pastilong? 6 A. I don't recall saying that to him. I 7 recall saying to him that I felt that 8 Mr. Rodriguez was perfect for West Virginia

9 University, that he was a native son, he was a 10 graduate, and that I was very excited to work

11 with him as the head football coach, and there

12 was a lot of value in coaching at your alma mater 13 and at WVU. He specifically disagreed, very

14 strongly.

15 Q. Did you then, at any point in time,

16 discuss the matter with Ed Pastilong?

17 A. I don't recall whether or not I 18 discussed it specifically. I'm sure I did, but I 19 don't recall the specific time that I may have. 20 Q. What did you tell Pastilong to do? 21 A. I don't recall if I told 22 Director Pastilong to do anything, I asked him 23 about the status of finalizing the contract. 24 Q. And what did he say?

Page 119 1 A. I believe it was suggested that it 2 was being worked on. 3 Q. And at what point in time did you 4 follow up on whether the contract was being 5 worked on? 6 A. I don't know whether, at what point 7 in time I may have or Craig Walker may have, I 8 don't know.

9 Q. Did you direct Chief of Staff Walker 10 to make sure that got done?

11 A. I wanted Craig Walker to stay

12 involved, to make sure that we were able to

13 complete the signing of the contract.

14 MR. ROBON: Let's go off

15 camera and change the tape.

16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time

17 is 11:28 a.m., we are going off the record. This 18 concludes tape two. 19 * * * 20 (Brief break) 21 * * * 22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 23 is 11:42 a.m., and we're back on the record. 24 This begins tape three.

Page 120 1 BY MR. ROBON: 2 Q. Mr. Garrison, when did you feel that 3 you needed to take an active role in the contract 4 negotiations with Coach Rodriguez? 5 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 6 form of the question. 7 A. I was never involved in contract 8 negotiations, those were completed in December of

9 2006, as stated earlier. 10 BY MR. ROBON:

11 Q. So you're telling the jury that you

12 had no discussions with Coach Rodriguez about

13 executing a second addendum to his employment

14 contract?

15 A. That's not what I said.

16 Q. That's all?

17 A. That's not what I said, sir. 18 Q. Well, let me rephrase the question so 19 you clearly understand it. 20 And as a lawyer, if you don't 21 understand the question, please tell me. 22 A. I will. 23 Q. My question to you is: When did you 24 undertake, yourself, or decide to undertake,

Page 121 1 yourself, the negotiations to conclude an 2 amendment to Coach Rodriguez's employment 3 contract? 4 A. Again, I would not describe any of my 5 involvement as negotiations. I know that at some 6 point during the summer of 2007, Mr. Rodriguez 7 asked me to visit with him, and I wanted to visit 8 with him, I wanted to make sure things were going

9 well for the upcoming season. And I wanted to 10 make sure he understood how supportive I was of

11 him and the football program, and how excited we

12 were that he was going to be with the University

13 for a while.

14 Q. Did you know he had been told by

15 certain members of the Board of Governors to

16 simply wait for you to be become president, so

17 that his agreement could be finalized? 18 A. I was not and am not aware of that. 19 Q. None of the Board of Governors told 20 you that? 21 A. No. 22 Q. When you said Mike Brown indicated he 23 was "shopping" the coach, did that make you 24 angry?

Page 122 1 A. I was surprised. I was very 2 surprised. I took the meeting as -- I'd never 3 met Mr. Brown before, and as just a normal 4 meeting, and I knew that he had an association 5 with Mr. Rodriguez. And we had a short and 6 courteous discussion, but then he went into some 7 detail about his plans for the future and his, 8 what I considered to be fairly disparaging

9 remarks about West Virginia and West Virginia 10 University, and I didn't like that.

11 Q. Did you ever deal with a sports

12 agent, prior to meeting Mr. Brown?

13 A. Please describe what you mean by

14 "deal with."

15 Q. Before you met him. When I say "deal 16 with," did you ever negotiate with a sports

17 agent? 18 A. I had never negotiated with a sports 19 agent before, no. I knew a few. 20 Q. But you know they're out there to get 21 every dollar they can for their clientele, 22 they're like a lawyer. 23 A. I wouldn't describe a lawyer in that 24 way.

Page 123 1 Q. Out to represent the best interests 2 of his client. 3 A. I would describe a lawyer in that 4 way. 5 Q. Isn't that what a sports agent does 6 too? 7 A. I'm not sure what a sports agent does 8 and I'm not sure what Mr. Brown's exact role was.

9 Q. So is it fair to say that you were a 10 novice in dealing with a sports agent?

11 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the

12 form.

13 A. I had met Mr. Brown for the first

14 time that day, and he described some things to me 15 that were surprising.

16 BY MR. ROBON:

17 Q. Could you have also, instead of 18 getting angry, could you have taken it that, you 19 know, we have one of the finest coaches in the 20 country? 21 A. I agreed that we had one of the 22 finest coaches in the country. That wasn't what 23 was described to me by Mr. Brown. 24 Q. Well, he said he's going to shop.

Page 124 1 A. Mr. Brown described to me, again, 2 that he was responsible for the Alabama deal, as 3 he put it, he had hoped that Mr. Rodriguez would 4 go Alabama, and that he would continue to shop, 5 quote, "Product Rodriguez" on the market, because 6 he was a very valuable commodity. 7 I was offended on several levels. 8 Number one, I believe that the relationship

9 between Mr. Brown and Mr. Rodriguez would be one 10 that he would not refer to Mr. Rodriguez as

11 "Product Rodriguez." I didn't think of

12 Mr. Rodriguez that way, and I certainly was

13 surprised that he would.

14 In addition to that, we had all been

15 talking a lot about Mr. Rodriguez spending his

16 career at West Virginia University, something

17 that I was quite interested in him doing. 18 Q. Did you ever send an e-mail or tell 19 Coach Rodriguez about your disappointment in 20 meeting with Michael Brown? 21 A. I -- 22 Q. And if you did, show me where you did 23 it. 24 A. Is there any more to the question?

Page 125 1 Q. No. 2 A. I don't recall ever sending an 3 e-mail. I did, from time to time, after my 4 initial interactions with Mr. Brown, describe to 5 Mr. Rodriguez that I did not think he had his 6 best interests in mind. And I thought his 7 approach was very, very controversial and did not 8 serve Mr. Rodriguez's interests well, but if that

9 was his choice, we would work with him. 10 Q. But you never told Coach Rodriguez

11 that his agent referred to him as a product, did

12 you?

13 A. I don't recall whether I did or not. 14 I certainly described to Mr. Rodriguez, on more

15 than one occasion, that I did not believe

16 Mr. Brown had his best interests in mind.

17 Q. Did Rich Rodriguez ever tell you that 18 he wanted himself shopped around? 19 A. Did Rich Rodriguez ever tell this to 20 me? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. No. Not that I recall. That's why I 23 was surprised. 24 Q. So whatever the agent did, he might

Page 126 1 have done on his own, correct? 2 A. I have no idea what his motivation 3 was, but I know what he told me. 4 Q. You've read the term sheet that Rich 5 Rodriguez signed with Mr. Pastilong, dated 6 December 8, 2006? 7 A. I read it just a few minutes ago when 8 you showed it to me.

9 Q. Take a look at page 2. And would you 10 read out loud the section dealing with

11 confidentiality and publicity. Read it out loud

12 for the jury.

13 Can you read it out loud.

14 A. I can't actually read this, it's

15 awfully blurry and I'm not sure where the section 16 is you're referring to. I apologize.

17 Q. Well, let me -- 18 A. It's not a very good copy. 19 Q. I'll read it, and you correct me if 20 you think I'm wrong. 21 A. Well, it would be hard to correct you 22 if I can't read my copy. 23 Q. Let's see if this is a better copy 24 for you.

Page 127 1 A. Okay. 2 Thank you. I'll do my best. 3 "Confidentiality" -- 4 Q. Hand me back the other one there. 5 A. Sure. 6 "Confidentiality and Publicity: The 7 contents of this term sheet, all related 8 negotiations, and the terms and conditions of any

9 resulting contract shall remain confidential 10 until an amendment to the head coach's employment 11 agreement is signed by both parties."

12 "By both parties," period.

13 Would you like me to continue?

14 Q. Yes.

15 A. "Furthermore, neither Coach nor any

16 agent or representative of Coach shall make any

17 public statement at any time bearing on the 18 negotiation or award of an employment agreement, 19 including, but not limited to, the content of 20 this term sheet to the media or any other person 21 or entity without the prior approval of the 22 director of intercollegiate athletics. Coach 23 shall cooperate with all reasonable requests by 24 the director of intercollegiate athletics for

Page 128 1 assistant with" -- assistance, I'm sorry -- "with 2 publicity regarding the employment agreement." 3 Q. And read the next paragraph. 4 A. "Terms and conditions of the 5 agreement are subject to the signing of an 6 amendment to the employment agreement by both 7 parties." 8 Q. And then the last sentence.

9 A. "By signing this term sheet the 10 parties agree to act in good faith to execute a

11 final employment agreement complying with the

12 content of this term sheet."

13 Q. Now, when you became interim

14 president, were you aware that the terms and

15 conditions, particularly the $4 million

16 liquidated damage number, had been leaked to the

17 press by someone at the University? 18 A. I was not aware. 19 Q. You didn't know that that was public 20 knowledge? 21 A. I recall hearing about it in the 22 public, but I was not aware or do not agree that 23 there was necessarily a leak, I just don't know 24 how it became public.

Page 129 1 Q. Did you, when you became president, 2 ask the director of security to find out who 3 leaked that information to the public? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you do any investigation, 6 yourself, through your chief of staff or Alex 7 Macia to find out who leaked that information to 8 the public?

9 A. I did not. And I, again, go back to 10 your terminology of "leaked." I was not under

11 the impression that it had been leaked. I know

12 that in December of 2006, I knew that the coach

13 had come to an agreement with the University,

14 based on what he told me, and based on what the

15 popular media was reporting. And I was happy

16 about it.

17 Q. Did you think that the term sheet 18 would be subject to a FOIA request? 19 A. I'm certain it could be, but I did 20 not contemplate whether or not it could be. I 21 was never asked the question. 22 Q. And dealing with you, and finalizing 23 a second addendum to his employment contract, did 24 Rich Rodriguez ever say anything negative about

Page 130 1 the West Virginia University as an institution? 2 A. Can you repeat your question one more 3 time. 4 Q. Yes. 5 In dealing with Rich Rodriguez, in 6 the execution of his second addendum to his 7 employment agreement, did he ever say anything 8 negative about West Virginia University as an

9 institution? 10 A. That's a broad scope of "in dealing

11 with me." There, I don't recall it in relation

12 to the second amendment, but I can't recall

13 specifically. But I don't recall it.

14 Q. Okay.

15 That was executed on August 24 of

16 '07, correct?

17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. Within the month after it was 19 executed, did Rich Rodriguez say anything, to 20 your knowledge, that reflected negatively on 21 West Virginia University as an institution? 22 A. When? Within the month after? 23 Q. Yes. 24 A. Not to my knowledge. He, we didn't

Page 131 1 have a lot of conversations, he was into the 2 season then. But he may have prior to that, I 3 don't ... 4 Q. Well, you don't, you can't recall 5 anything particularly? 6 A. I recall, if I may go back, during 7 some of our discussions during the summer, that 8 Mr. Rodriguez expressed a frustration with the

9 commitment of the prior administration, to being 10 involved and committed with the program. He

11 expressed what I felt was very sincere support

12 for me and excitement that I was named as

13 president and that we would work together. And I 14 expressed what I can assure you was sincere

15 support and excitement.

16 He was, appeared to be frustrated

17 with what he described as support for the 18 program, as a general matter. 19 Q. But that's the administration, that's 20 not the institution itself. That's the prior 21 administration, correct? 22 A. Who represented the institution, yes, 23 sir. 24 Q. You can always support an institution

Page 132 1 but not be happy with the administration. 2 A. I suppose that's the case. You asked 3 me to describe anything that I knew of, and I'm 4 trying to do that. 5 Q. Up until December 15 of 2007, did 6 Coach Rodriguez, in your opinion, ever state 7 anything negatively about the West Virginia 8 University as an institution?

9 A. No, not in my opinion, not that I 10 recall.

11 Q. And even to this day, has he ever

12 publicly said anything that you would deem as

13 negative comments about the institution of

14 learning at West Virginia University?

15 A. Publicly?

16 Q. As opposed to the administration.

17 A. He said some things to me on 18 December 15, yes, sir. 19 Q. But not publicly. 20 A. No, but he said them to me on 21 December 15. And, I'm sorry, I haven't followed 22 all his public comments since that time. 23 Q. So you cannot point to any public 24 comment where he in any way disparaged the

Page 133 1 University. 2 A. I'm not sure if they exist or not, I 3 can't point to anybody, but he did say some to me 4 on December 15. 5 Q. Would you say that during the fall of 6 2007, when his addendum to his employment 7 contract was signed, he gave 110 percent effort 8 into the football program at West Virginia

9 University? 10 A. Sure. I was very, very happy with

11 the season, and was very supportive of

12 Mr. Rodriguez and the team during the season.

13 Q. With regard to Mike Brown's comment,

14 that he's going to "shop Coach Rodriguez" --

15 A. He said "Product Rodriguez."

16 Q. Product Rodriguez.

17 Wouldn't the University at 18 West Virginia be proud that they have a coach 19 that demands national attention by the media and 20 they have success in their programs? Couldn't 21 they look at this, that it was a proud thing for 22 the institution itself? 23 A. I think most all West Virginians, 24 including myself, felt very proud that we had a

Page 134 1 coach of national prominence. But that was not 2 at all how it was conveyed to me by Mr. Brown. 3 Mr. Brown conveyed to me that he did not care 4 about the ties between Mr. Rodriguez and his home 5 school, the feelings that people had for the 6 institution, and that he would continue to shop, 7 as he said, "Product Rodriguez" on the market. 8 And your assertion or your

9 description does not match the way he conveyed 10 his comments to me.

11 But I think, certainly, people were

12 proud, should have been proud. I was very proud.

13 Q. Mr. Brown is not from West Virginia,

14 correct?

15 A. I don't know where Mr. Brown is from.

16 Q. It's obvious that you and he had a

17 personality conflict. 18 A. I didn't think so. Normally, during 19 my first meeting with someone, that's not, that's 20 not the way I approach my first meeting, but 21 that's what Mr. Brown chose to do. 22 Q. Right. 23 And you may have said things to him 24 that he didn't like.

Page 135 1 A. You'd have to ask him. I was very 2 surprised by his comments. 3 Q. Well, let's go to the summer of 2007. 4 Was this the first time you were at the blessing 5 of the field? 6 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and 7 answered. 8 A. Yes, we talked about that earlier.

9 Yes, sir. 10 BY MR. ROBON:

11 Q. And there was a meeting after that,

12 right?

13 A. Some folks got together after that,

14 yes, sir, for a meeting.

15 Q. And can you tell the jury where that

16 meeting took place.

17 A. As I recall, it was somewhere in the 18 facilities building, I think it was in, near or 19 in the Hall of Traditions. 20 Q. And you were there. 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. Craig Walker was there. 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. Rita Rodriguez was there.

Page 136 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Rich Rodriguez was there. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Michael Wilcox was there. 5 A. I believe so, yes, sir. 6 Q. And was Director Pastilong there? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Can you tell the jury what occurred

9 at that meeting and how long it lasted. 10 A. Well, during the meeting, all the

11 folks that you just described got together to

12 discuss memorializing the agreement with

13 Mr. Rodriguez. And I believe Craig Walker asked

14 everyone to get together, simply to get it

15 memorialized, because he had been speaking with,

16 I think primarily Mr. Wilcox, to finalize this

17 matter. 18 And everyone got together at that 19 time. I don't recall how long the meeting was, 20 and there were a number of things discussed at 21 the meeting. 22 Q. And was the Board of Governors 23 putting a little pressure on you to have the 24 addendum to the contract of employment with

Page 137 1 Coach Rodriguez signed before the football season 2 began? 3 A. I was asked about it and whether it 4 had been signed. Frankly, I -- 5 Q. By the Board of Governors? 6 A. By the chairman of the Board of 7 Governors. 8 Q. Steve Goodwin?

9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. And he told you to get it signed?

11 A. He asked me whether it had been

12 signed and had asked me why it hadn't been

13 signed. I was, frankly, unaware it hadn't been

14 signed, until I came into, into office.

15 Q. And can you tell us why you thought

16 it wasn't signed.

17 A. Pardon me? 18 Q. Why did you think it wasn't executed 19 or -- 20 A. I don't know why it wasn't executed. 21 Q. Did you inquire? 22 A. I did not inquire, I was just 23 surprised it was not. 24 Q. Wasn't it a fact that Coach Rodriguez

Page 138 1 was concerned about the liquidated damages 2 provision in the contract? 3 A. It may have been, but I don't believe 4 that I was ever told specifically that that was 5 why it hadn't been signed. 6 Q. Are you denying that Coach Rodriguez 7 told you, in front of other people, including 8 Mr. Walker, that he didn't want to sign the

9 contract because it contained a $4 million 10 liquidated damages penalty?

11 A. I recall that Mr. Rodriguez mentioned 12 that he believed that the liquidated damages

13 provision was high, and asked me, generally, if I 14 thought it was fair and if the contract was fair.

15 Q. And at one point during your meetings 16 with him, did you tell him "trust me," referring

17 to you? 18 A. I don't know if I did or not. I 19 always felt like he could trust me and that I 20 could trust him. 21 Q. So that wouldn't have been uncommon 22 for you to say that. 23 A. Actually, I don't believe I ever said 24 it, I didn't think I needed to verbalize it. It

Page 139 1 was based upon what I felt was a mutual 2 friendship. 3 But I expect that he did, in fact, 4 trust me, as I trusted him. 5 * * * 6 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 7 Exhibit ZZ was marked for purposes of 8 identification.)

9 * * * 10 BY MR. ROBON:

11 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've

12 marked as ZZ. Is this an e-mail from you to Mike 13 Wilcox, who was the financial advisor for

14 Coach Rodriguez?

15 A. Yes, sir, it appears to be an e-mail

16 that you just described, to Mike Wilcox.

17 Q. And when is it dated? 18 A. It's dated August 9, 2007. 19 Q. Would you read it out loud for the 20 jury. 21 A. "Mike, thanks very much for your 22 follow-up e-mail and your participation in this 23 process. I am pleased that your sense is that 24 things are moving ahead very well and want to

Page 140 1 reiterate my previous sentiments about bringing 2 this process to a close very soon. As chairman 3 of the Bowling Green Board, I'm sure that you can 4 appreciate the fact that our next scheduled WVU 5 Board of Governors meeting is likely to be moved 6 up to August 31," open parenthetical, "from 7 September 6-7," closed parenthetical, "and that 8 we will be asked to report on the contract issue. 9 Our WVU board chairman anticipates with certainty 10 that this matter will be finalized by no later

11 than the above-referenced meeting, and I have

12 assured him that, at least from the University's

13 perspective, that it will be completed on or

14 before that date. Thanks for your involvement

15 and please feel free to contact me, Craig or Alex 16 if you have any questions. Mike."

17 Q. And you authored that. 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. So the next meeting that took place 20 with Coach Rodriguez after your e-mail of 21 August 9, 2007, occurred when? 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. If I told you it was August 24, 2007, 24 would that refresh your recollection?

Page 141 1 A. I don't know. 2 Do you mean the next meeting that I 3 had with him? 4 Q. Yes. 5 A. Do you mean the next meeting in 6 person? 7 Q. In person. 8 A. May have been. I don't know. I

9 don't know if I had phone conversations with him 10 before that or not, I just don't know.

11 Q. Do you recall the meeting where it

12 lasted anywhere from one-and-a-half to

13 three-and-a-half hours in the morning of

14 August 24 with Rich Rodriguez in attendance, Rita 15 Rodriguez, Mike Brown, Mike Wilcox, yourself and

16 Craig Walker?

17 A. I do recall that meeting, I do not 18 recall it lasting three-and-a-half hours. And I 19 know you gave a range, I recall it lasting more, 20 maybe one-and-a-half to two hours. 21 Q. Can you tell the jury what was the 22 subject of that meeting. 23 A. That was a meeting where all the 24 parties were getting together for the signing of

Page 142 1 the second amendment. 2 Q. To Rich's employment contract. 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. And Rich was very reluctant to 5 execute that contract amendment; was he not? 6 A. He appeared to be, at different times 7 during the meeting. 8 Q. And had you read the second amendment

9 to the employment contract? 10 A. I may have looked it over, I don't

11 recall reading it in any detail.

12 Q. Who did you charge with that

13 responsibility?

14 A. We had lawyers involved on our front, 15 and folks at the athletic department as well.

16 * * *

17 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 18 Exhibit AAA was marked for purposes of 19 identification.) 20 * * * 21 BY MR. ROBON: 22 Q. I'm going to hand you what we're 23 marking as AAA. This is an e-mail dated August 6 24 of 2007, to Craig Walker, from Michael Brown. Do

Page 143 1 you see that? 2 A. I do see it. 3 Q. And did you get a copy of that 4 e-mail? 5 A. I don't see myself being copied on 6 this e-mail, no, sir. 7 Q. Did Craig Walker tell you about it? 8 A. Not that I recall.

9 Q. Read the second sentence in that 10 e-mail. Well, read the whole thing, read the

11 whole paragraph.

12 A. Where at, sir? At the top?

13 Q. "I look forward to seeing."

14 A. "I look forward to seeing the

15 amendment. If there is anything we can discuss

16 prior to, et cetera, to streamline the process,

17 please let me know. The last draft did not 18 include some very important items to Rich, i.e., 19 Web site, operational control, et cetera. Again, 20 the buyout terms were not," quote, "fair," end 21 quote, "in regards" -- it's just supposed to be 22 "regard" -- "to the market and compared to 23 Huggins," period. 24 Q. And when he talks about the buyout

Page 144 1 terms, that's referring to the liquidated 2 damages; is it not? 3 A. I assume that's what he's referring 4 to. 5 Q. So is it fair to say that when you 6 went into this meeting on August 24 with Rich and 7 his advisors and his wife, and your advisors, 8 your chief of staff and your in-house counsel,

9 that one of the issues of contention -- 10 A. I don't believe my in-house counsel

11 was at that meeting, sir.

12 Q. Okay.

13 Alex wasn't there?

14 A. That's not my recollection.

15 Q. Okay.

16 And also Pastilong wasn't there, was

17 he? 18 A. I don't recall him being there. 19 Q. Did you ask him not to be there? 20 A. I did not ask him to be there or to 21 not be there. 22 Q. Did you direct Walker to tell him not 23 to be there? 24 A. Not to my recollection.

Page 145 1 Q. Did you know it was unusual not to 2 have the athletic director signing an agreement 3 that is being finalized? 4 A. I didn't know whether it was or was 5 not unusual. He certainly was informed that all 6 of us were working on finalizing this document. 7 Q. Was Pastilong reluctant to capitulate 8 to any of the requests that Coach Rodriguez

9 wanted? 10 A. What do you mean by the requests that 11 Coach Rodriguez wanted?

12 Q. Well, in this exhibit, he wanted a

13 Web site, there were discussions and testimony,

14 previously, that he wanted free textbooks for his 15 students in the athletic department, he wanted

16 free passes for high school coaches, he wanted

17 control of the sidelines. Those types of things 18 that he was asking for, that were not in the term 19 sheet. 20 A. Yeah, they weren't in any agreement. 21 But ask me your question again, please. 22 Q. My question is: Was 23 Director Pastilong opposed to giving any of those 24 concessions, and that's why he wasn't there?

Page 146 1 A. No, it didn't have anything to do 2 with why he wasn't in attendance, that's to 3 answer part of your question. To answer the 4 other part of your question, as those items which 5 were outside the scope of the agreement were 6 discussed with Director Pastilong, in general, he 7 wanted to review each of them and determine how 8 they might fit into the program and how they may

9 or may not be implemented. 10 I did ask him for his recommendations 11 on those items.

12 Q. And that was after the contract was

13 signed, correct?

14 A. I don't recall when that was. I know 15 that they were discussed with him, I discussed

16 them with him, and I believe Craig did as well.

17 Q. Take a look at Exhibit EE, this is a 18 memorandum from Craig Walker to Ed Pastilong, 19 dated the 27th of August, which would have been 20 the Monday after the Friday meeting on August 24. 21 A. Okay. 22 Q. And doesn't he basically tell 23 Pastilong to look into these various things that 24 the coach was looking for?

Page 147 1 A. He does list a number of things and 2 asks Director Pastilong to explore them, yes, 3 sir. 4 Q. And that was carrying out your 5 wishes. 6 A. I was aware he was doing it, I'm 7 copied on the memo. 8 Q. Right.

9 Now, my question is: The contract is 10 executed three days before this memorandum is

11 prepared. I want you to tell the jury, as best

12 you can recollect, what happened during that

13 hour-and-a-half to two-hour meeting that occurred 14 on August 24 at West Virginia University where

15 Coach Rodriguez finally inked the second

16 amendment to his employment contract.

17 A. We, it had been set up by, or 18 arranged by Mr. Wilcox and Craig, and we were 19 there, really, for what I anticipated to be a 20 very brief and direct meeting. And I understood 21 that there was an agreement on the second 22 amendment. 23 There was some discussion about, 24 again, discussion that had been ongoing by

Page 148 1 Mr. Rodriguez, and some by Mrs. Rodriguez, about 2 their previous frustrations with the previous 3 administration, some of their frustrations with 4 the athletic department, what I perceived to be a 5 sincere interest in working with our 6 administration, support of our administration, 7 and interest in moving forward. 8 And Mr. Rodriguez asked each of the

9 individuals -- Brown, Wilcox and 10 Mrs. Rodriguez -- whether they thought he should

11 sign the contract, and on different occasions,

12 not all at once. And they indicated in the

13 positive, and, ultimately, he signed the

14 contract, or the amendment to, the second

15 amendment.

16 Q. And can you tell me, why do you

17 believe there was a need for a meeting in order 18 to execute the contract, why wasn't it just sent 19 through interoffice mail? 20 A. I'm not sure why Mr. Wilcox felt the 21 need to have a meeting. I can't say that. 22 Q. Can you tell me why the meeting 23 lasted an hour-and-a-half to two hours, when he 24 could have summarized it in 40 seconds?

Page 149 1 A. Yeah, just summarized it. I think 2 there were a lot of, a lot of discussions that 3 had been had previously by Mr. and 4 Mrs. Rodriguez, by Mr. Brown, by Mr. Wilcox, in 5 terms of former frustrations with the 6 administration and the athletic department. 7 Q. Was the liquidated damages provision 8 discussed by Coach Rodriguez?

9 A. I'm sure at some point it was during 10 the meeting.

11 Q. Did he basically say he didn't

12 believe it was fair?

13 A. He asked me directly if I felt that

14 the contract was fair. And I indicated that I

15 believed it was fair for the time, or the second

16 amendment -- let me rephrase that.

17 He asked me if this document was 18 fair, and I said I believe it is fair for the 19 time. And it is something that had already been 20 agreed to back in December of 2006. 21 Q. And Coach Rodriguez did not have a 22 lawyer there, correct? 23 A. I don't know whether he, I don't 24 believe Mr. Brown or Mr. Wilcox are lawyers.

Page 150 1 Q. That's correct. 2 What did you tell him with regard to 3 the liquidated damages provision? 4 A. I was referring to the entire 5 contract, which said that it was, I believed it 6 was fair. 7 Q. I understand. 8 But what did you tell him in

9 particular about the liquidated damages provision 10 when he brought that up, saying $4 million is not 11 fair?

12 A. I don't recall him saying,

13 specifically. He asked me if I thought the

14 contract was fair, and I recall that,

15 specifically. And I, again, said to him that I

16 believed it was fair for the time.

17 I also pointed out that we had 18 adapted some things that had not been previously 19 been done, that the liquidated damages provision 20 was reduced in one year from $4 million to $2 21 million, that we added in a pay-back provision, 22 should it be activated, that was over time, it 23 wasn't immediate. And that we also allowed for 24 deferred compensation, that wasn't originally

Page 151 1 discussed. 2 Q. Did you ever say to him that you 3 really didn't believe in buyouts? 4 A. I don't know if I said it at that 5 meeting. I'm sure at some point I did say to 6 Mr. Rodriguez that, that I would like the 7 University to look at other options besides 8 liquidated damages provisions, if they fit the

9 circumstances. 10 Q. Did you indicate that in addition to

11 not believing in buyouts, if there was a dispute, 12 the lawyers would probably get together and split 13 the difference at 2 million?

14 A. I did not say that.

15 Q. Did you say something similar?

16 A. I do not recall, and I did not say -- 17 actually, let me rephrase that. I did not say 18 anything similar to that. I did say on some 19 occasion, and I don't believe it was at this 20 meeting, but I had discussions with Mr. Rodriguez 21 about options or alternatives to liquidated 22 damages clauses. And I conveyed to him that in 23 future contracts, in contracts that would come 24 after this contract, that I would be pleased to

Page 152 1 explore other options and opportunities. 2 Q. And have you done that at the 3 University, while you have been president? 4 A. Done what? 5 Q. Explored other mechanisms other than 6 liquidated damages. 7 A. I've, we've looked at some of those, 8 I've asked counsel and the athletic department to

9 look at what other options may exist. 10 Q. But so far, nothing else exists,

11 correct?

12 A. I don't know if I agree with that or

13 not, I'm not completely aware of all the details

14 of every contract that we have. But we did

15 discuss what other opportunities may exist, in

16 terms of incentives that would be available after 17 a period of time and that sort of thing. 18 * * * 19 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 20 Exhibit BBB was marked for purposes of 21 identification.) 22 * * * 23 BY MR. ROBON: 24 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've

Page 153 1 marked as Exhibit BBB. 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. Which is the employment contract 4 dated May 2, 2008, with the University and Bobby 5 Huggins. 6 A. Uh-huh. 7 Q. Does this contract of employment for 8 the basketball coach not contain a $4 million

9 liquidated damages provision on page 8, 10 paragraph 6, end of paragraph 6?

11 A. That is a liquidated damages

12 provision in the contract.

13 Q. So within the year that you talked

14 about, with Coach Rodriguez, that you thought

15 another mechanism could be utilized instead of

16 liquidated damages, you, in fact, have used

17 liquidated damages with a new coach. 18 A. In some contracts; in other 19 contracts, no. Primarily, because, in this 20 contract, in particular, since you specify it, 21 Coach Huggins was very comfortable with it being 22 in the contract. 23 Q. But you gave him a lifetime contract; 24 did you not, to induced him to sign a $4 million

Page 154 1 liquidated damage provision. 2 A. I gave Coach Huggins nothing. The 3 employment agreement that is signed is one that 4 he was interested in, I was very interested in 5 it, and the athletic director was interested in 6 it. And I believed that it was a very good 7 opportunity for the University and for 8 Coach Huggins.

9 Q. And how old is Coach Huggins? 10 A. I don't know his exact age.

11 Q. Approximately?

12 A. I can't, shouldn't guess.

13 Q. He's in his 50s?

14 A. I would say that's probably accurate.

15 Q. And this term of the contract, would

16 you read the first sentence on Roman numeral 2,

17 page 1. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Read it out loud. 20 A. "The term of this agreement shall 21 begin on the 2nd of May 2008 and terminate at 22 12:01 a.m. on the coach's 65th birthday, the 23 first term." 24 Q. So it's a long-term contract, that I

Page 155 1 think provides for about $22 million in payments 2 over a period of time, correct? 3 A. That's a very generalized description 4 of it, it renews every year. 5 Q. Can you tell the jury, when 6 Coach Rodriguez was reluctant to sign the 7 $4 million liquidated damages provision, can you 8 tell them the reasons that you indicated to

9 Coach Rodriguez that that $4 million figure had 10 to stay in the agreement.

11 A. Well, let me correct what you just

12 asked me. I never had the impression that

13 Mr. Rodriguez was reluctant to sign simply the

14 liquidated damages provision, that he expressed

15 reluctance to sign the instrument in general. He 16 did express some reluctance as related to the

17 liquidated damages provision, but he did not 18 specify that that was the main source of his 19 reluctance. 20 Q. That was one item. 21 A. That was one item that he did 22 mention, that's correct. That's correct. 23 Q. And what did you do to allay his 24 fears about that $4 million liquidated damages

Page 156 1 provision? 2 A. I didn't, I don't know if I did 3 anything to allay his fears, but I did mention 4 that it was based upon the agreement that had 5 been reached in December 2006, and that, you 6 know, it had already been agreed to and we needed 7 to move forward. 8 Q. Did you express to him that the Board

9 of Governors indicated to you that they wanted to 10 continue that $4 million provision because it had 11 been publicly leaked to the media back in

12 December of '06?

13 A. I don't recall saying that to him. I 14 recall there was a discussion about, and

15 Mr. Rodriguez was upset that it had been in the

16 media, he asked me how it had been in the media,

17 and I didn't know. I wasn't at the University at 18 that time, and I explained that to him. 19 But I did convey to him that the 20 agreement that had been reached in December of 21 2006 should be signed. 22 Q. Did you tell him also that the 23 certain large contributors to the University 24 Foundation allocated moneys to the football

Page 157 1 program insisted that there be a large figure to 2 prevent the coach from looking elsewhere? 3 A. Did I tell him that? 4 Q. Yes. 5 A. Absolutely not. 6 Q. Did Craig Walker tell him that? 7 A. I did not hear Craig say that to him 8 at any time.

9 Q. Did anybody from the administration 10 tell him that?

11 A. Not to my knowledge. I don't, I

12 don't know or believe your statement to be true.

13 Q. Did you believe that certain donors

14 wanted a large liquidated damages provision?

15 A. I had no knowledge one way or the

16 another. I had never discussed the liquidated

17 provision with any large donors. 18 Q. Is it fair to say that the meeting 19 that took place on August 24 of '07 included the 20 items that, in that August 27 memorandum from 21 Walker to Pastilong? 22 A. I believe you took that memorandum 23 back, sir. 24 Q. You want to take a look at that?

Page 158 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Thank you. 3 Q. And also the liquidated damages 4 provision. 5 A. It is, it's fair to say that there 6 had been an ongoing discussion of these items, 7 which were not in the agreement, that 8 Mr. Rodriguez had expressed an interest in, and

9 that we had expressed a willingness to work on. 10 Q. Take a look at Exhibit GG, this is an 11 e-mail from Mike Wilcox to you and Craig Walker,

12 also on August 27 of 2007. And doesn't he

13 bullet point seven or eight points that were

14 items that were discussed prior to the coach

15 signing that would be worked on and attempted to

16 be put into place at the University?

17 A. He bullet points items in this 18 e-mail -- yes, let me answer all those questions 19 that you asked, in order, if I can. It is an 20 e-mail from Mike Wilcox to Craig Walker, it 21 copies other individuals. 22 Q. And you. 23 A. It does -- yes, I'm sorry, it is to 24 Craig Walker and to me --

Page 159 1 Q. Right. 2 A. And it copies other individuals. It 3 does include bullet points of a variety of things 4 that had been discussed with Mr. Rodriguez and 5 with Mr. Wilcox, from time to time, during the 6 summer of 2007. 7 Q. And it discusses items that's going 8 to be looked at or worked on by the

9 administration, to be taken care of for the 10 benefit of Coach Rodriguez and the athletic

11 department.

12 A. We were committed to working on them

13 and taking a look at them and getting back with

14 Mr. Rodriguez on whether they could be completed

15 or not. We asked the athletic department to do

16 that.

17 Q. And these items that are 18 bullet pointed in Exhibit EE are not necessarily 19 for the coach's benefit, but for the benefit of 20 the athletic program and the football program at 21 the University, correct? 22 A. I don't know that they're not for the 23 mutual benefit of the program and the athletic 24 department. They're just items that were

Page 160 1 discussed by Mr. Rodriguez and Mr. Wilcox and 2 Mr. Brown, outside of any employment agreement 3 that he was interested in getting achieved, if 4 possible. 5 Q. And these items were discussed, and 6 promises were made they would be looked into, 7 before he executed the final employment 8 agreement, correct?

9 A. Promises were made that they would be 10 looked at, both before and after April -- or

11 August 24. We were committed, as I've explained

12 to Mr. Rodriguez on many occasions, to try to

13 accommodate those things that he wanted to have

14 accommodated, even those things that were outside 15 of his employment agreement or the second

16 amendment to the employment agreement. And all

17 of these things were outside of that agreement. 18 Q. Is it fair to say that, from a 19 layman's perspective, Coach Rodriguez felt that 20 these promises were part of the contract? 21 A. I have no idea what Coach Rodriguez 22 felt. 23 Q. Did you tell him, as a lawyer, 24 that --

Page 161 1 A. I never represented myself as a 2 lawyer -- 3 Q. Well, I understand that. 4 A. -- to Mr. Rodriguez. 5 Q. But you have a law degree; do you 6 not? 7 A. I do have a law degree. 8 Q. And you are licensed to practice law.

9 A. I am licensed to practice law. 10 Q. Did you ever tell him that anything

11 you said to him, that was contrary to the terms

12 of his employment agreement, might not be binding 13 upon the University; "yes" or "no"?

14 A. I'm not sure I understand your

15 question. Would you repeat your question?

16 Q. Yes.

17 Did you ever tell Coach Rodriguez, on 18 August 24 of 2007, when he executed the second 19 addendum to his employment contract, that the 20 verbal representations that you made, or Craig 21 Walker made, may not be enforced against the 22 University? 23 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 24 form of the question and the premise contained in

Page 162 1 it. 2 A. I never used those words, never said 3 those words to Mr. Rodriguez. I did commit and 4 Craig committed on that day to working on getting 5 some answers back to all of these things, whether 6 we could get them done or not get them done. 7 BY MR. ROBON: 8 Q. But you deny any comments relating to

9 the liquidated damage provision about reducing 10 it, or if there was a dispute and he wanted to

11 leave, settling it for less than a hundred cents

12 on the dollar?

13 A. I was not asked if he, by

14 Mr. Rodriguez, or by anybody anyone at the

15 meeting, if he wanted to leave in a year, what

16 would happen. I would have been surprised by

17 that question, because I had been told on 18 countless occasions, by Mr. Rodriguez and by his, 19 by Mr. Rodriguez, that he intended and wanted to 20 be at the University for the rest of his career. 21 And I was happy about that, and I believed him. 22 Q. Isn't it true that Director Pastilong 23 stifled the request that you set forth, and Craig 24 Walker set forth, and Mike Wilcox set forth, in

Page 163 1 those memos of August 27, and would not implement 2 those items? 3 A. It is, I would not describe it as 4 "stifled." I know that the director, as stated 5 in the memo, Chief of Staff Walker asked the 6 director to take a look at these items, because 7 some items were easier to accomplish than others, 8 you know, they're a very simple thing, like a

9 field pass for Mrs. Rodriguez. I, that was a 10 surprise to me that it hasn't been done, and I

11 said that to Mr. Rodriguez.

12 And those things were easier to do

13 and easier to make decisions on than things that

14 touched upon regulated areas, like potentially

15 textbooks and/or coaches' passes and/or Web

16 sites, and I was not an expert in that area and

17 we asked the athletic department to look at that. 18 Q. And did you ask Walker to follow up 19 with Ed Pastilong about those items that are 20 listed in those exhibits? 21 A. I'm sure I did, and I'm sure even if 22 I hadn't, Craig would have. 23 Q. And isn't it true that Pastilong 24 called Governor Manchin and said, "You guys are

Page 164 1 interfering," or something to that effect, "in my 2 athletic department, and tell them to back off"? 3 A. I don't know if that's true or not, 4 you'd have to ask Director Pastilong. 5 Q. Did you know that he had a good 6 relationship with Governor Manchin? 7 A. Who? 8 Q. Ed Pastilong.

9 A. I'm aware that he has a good 10 relationship with Governor Manchin.

11 Q. And went to school together, still

12 friends to today.

13 A. That's my understanding, yes, sir.

14 Q. The governor takes a great interest

15 in sports at West Virginia University; does he

16 not?

17 A. I think the governor is a former 18 player and appears to be a big fan. 19 Q. During the fall of 2007, other than 20 giving the all-area pass to Mrs. Rodriguez, and 21 the sidelines control to the coach, were any of 22 those other items implemented? 23 And read out loud for the jury what 24 the other items are, so we know what we're

Page 165 1 talking about. 2 A. Well, you've mentioned two of them 3 already. 4 Q. We got the Web site. 5 A. Yes, the Web site -- let me just go 6 through the list, if that's okay with you. 7 The number of graduate assistants, 8 the collection of textbooks and who would own

9 them or sell them back or be able to sell them 10 back, the Web site were all being studied, as I

11 understood it, and taken a look at by the

12 athletic department. There were varying degrees

13 of complexity, based upon those issues.

14 I was aware that, for example, the

15 request for recruit seating at the basketball

16 games was something that was being discussed with 17 Coach Huggins, and that he was very interested in 18 dealing. 19 I did not have the discussions, 20 myself, but others had, and that was something 21 that was being worked out. It wasn't basketball 22 season yet, at that time. And that scheduling 23 was being discussed as well. Again, those are 24 things I would not have been involved directly

Page 166 1 in. 2 Q. And what about free passes for high 3 school coaches? 4 A. I understood that that was being 5 reviewed and explored, and that there was some 6 question as to how to regulate and who, in fact, 7 was a high school football coach. 8 Q. What about the request of the coach

9 for additional moneys for the assisting coaches 10 so that they wouldn't be tempted to leave?

11 A. That was something that was discussed 12 from time to time. And I recall asking

13 specifically about numbers for that, I was never

14 provided any number, specific numbers. But that

15 was a discussion that was part of the discussion

16 about the Web site, that perhaps if a Web site

17 could be developed, that some of that revenue 18 could be used for enhancements for the assistant 19 coaches. 20 The Web site issue, for example, was 21 one that the athletic department was very 22 reluctant to enter into. And later in that 23 season, the fall of 2007, there was a very 24 publicly discussed Web site issue at Texas A&M,

Page 167 1 and that shed some light on how Web sites could 2 be used and how they might be abused. And that, 3 actually, that discrepancy was brought to my 4 attention by Mr. Wilcox. 5 Q. Isn't it true that the athletic 6 department director felt that Coach Rodriguez was 7 getting too much power in the football program 8 and that's why he wouldn't implement these other

9 items? 10 A. I don't believe that to be true. I

11 was never told that by the athletic director.

12 Q. Were there hostile words between the

13 athletic director and Craig Walker or yourself?

14 A. I don't recall having any hostile

15 words with the athletic director.

16 Q. Were there disagreements?

17 A. I think you could always have 18 disagreements or a desire to move forward on 19 issues, if you could move forward. But the 20 athletic director was the person, and is the 21 person that advises us on what is appropriate and 22 not appropriate, particularly within a highly 23 regulated industry like college athletics. 24 Q. Did you believe Mike Wilcox to be a

Page 168 1 very credible financial advisor? I think he's 2 chairman of the board of Walgreen State 3 University. 4 A. I had no reason to disbelieve him. 5 Q. If he would testify that you, in 6 fact, on August 24, 2007, before Rich Rodriguez 7 signed his contract, indicated that if there was 8 a dispute, the lawyers would get together and

9 resolve it, would he be lying? 10 A. He would be lying.

11 Q. So your position is that you never

12 said that, the only thing you said is you would

13 look at something in the future.

14 A. I, as previously testified, I did

15 explain the number of things that we had done in

16 the second amendment to try and exhibit our good

17 faith and our goodwill toward Mr. Rodriguez. You 18 asked me what I explained and -- 19 Q. Now I'm limiting it to the liquidated 20 damages provision. 21 A. And I'd like to explain what I talked 22 to about in relation to liquidated damages. 23 I did point out that we had reduced 24 it, in a year, to $2 million, and that was not

Page 169 1 previously in the term sheet; that we had given 2 an extended amount of time to pay it back, should 3 it be activated. I did not imagine, quite 4 frankly, any set of circumstances that would 5 exist to activate the liquidated damages clause, 6 and was never asked if, if Mr. Rodriguez would 7 leave in a year, would it just be worked out. I 8 would have been surprised by that question.

9 Q. Prior to the execution of that second 10 addendum to the employment agreement, Exhibit LL, 11 did you commission someone within the University

12 to do a study on what damages the University

13 could suffer if the head coach, either in

14 basketball or football, left?

15 A. I did not commission someone to do

16 that, but I understand that it had been done.

17 Q. And how did you understand that? 18 A. I was told about it. I can't recall 19 how I learned of it, but I understand that there 20 was a review done. 21 Q. Isn't it a fact that when 22 Coach Beline left in April of 2007, before you 23 became the interim president, he had a liquidated 24 damages provision in his contract, I think it was

Page 170 1 2.5 million? 2 A. I never read his contract but I've 3 read the media accounts of, about his contract. 4 Q. And the University really didn't have 5 any basis to show any damage, they had never done 6 any study as to what the University might suffer 7 if a head basketball or football coach left. 8 MR. FLAHERTY: Is that a

9 question? 10 MR. ROBON: That's a

11 question.

12 MR. FLAHERTY: Sounded like a 13 statement.

14 A. I don't, I don't know the answer to

15 whether that was a question or not, I don't know

16 how to answer or the answer to it. If you could

17 rephrase it. 18 BY MR. ROBON: 19 Q. Is it fair to say that prior to John 20 Beline's leaving, to your knowledge, no one 21 within the University, the athletics, Board of 22 Governors, administration, former administration 23 had ever had an analysis done as to what it would 24 cost the University of West Virginia if one of

Page 171 1 their head football or basketball coaches left? 2 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 3 form of the question. 4 And it's West Virginia University. 5 THE WITNESS: I was going to 6 get that one. 7 A. But it is, I don't know whether the 8 answer to that is "yes" or "no," I have no

9 knowledge as to whether it was done. 10 BY MR. ROBON:

11 Q. Isn't it true that the $4 million

12 that's contained in the term sheet, Exhibit DD,

13 that you looked at previously, which was executed 14 in December of '06, contained a high-enough

15 number that whoever on behalf of the University

16 thought by putting a $4 million figure in, that

17 no one would ever leave and pay the $4 million? 18 A. That is very compound and very 19 complex. Could you break that question down for 20 me, please. 21 Q. I can break it down, sure. 22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: One 23 minute. 24 BY MR. ROBON:

Page 172 1 Q. Knowing that there was no study 2 done -- 3 A. I didn't say that I knew. I said I 4 didn't know whether there had been one done or 5 not. 6 Q. Well, but knowing, not knowing of the 7 existence of one, a study relating to -- 8 MR. ROBON: You know, let's

9 change tapes. 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time

11 is 12:43 p.m., we're going off the record. This

12 concludes tape three.

13 * * *

14 (Brief break)

15 * * *

16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time

17 is 12:44 p.m., we are back on the record. This 18 is the beginning of tape four. 19 BY MR. ROBON: 20 Q. Mr. Garrison, you've indicated you 21 did not know whether or not the University had 22 ever done a study on the cost or impact of a head 23 basketball or football coach leaving the 24 University, before January 1 of 2007, correct?

Page 173 1 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 2 form of the question, that's not what he said. 3 A. That is not what I said, and I don't 4 know whether, I know that there has been one 5 performed in the athletic department, I don't 6 know the date it was performed, whether it was 7 before or after January 1 of 2007, nor do I know 8 whether there was others performed in addition to

9 this one. 10 BY MR. ROBON:

11 Q. The one that Mr. Parsons testified

12 to, he said he did, I believe, in April of '07.

13 A. Okay.

14 Q. Assume that's the case, that the

15 deputy athletic director is telling the truth.

16 A. Okay.

17 Q. If none existed, no studies existed 18 in December of 2006, would Exhibit DD, the term 19 sheet, was signed imposing a $4 million 20 liquidated damages clause or penalty clause, it 21 had to be a number that was either picked out of 22 the air or a number that was so high that no 23 person would want to leave the employ of the 24 University and pay it, correct?

Page 174 1 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 2 form of the question. 3 A. Again, that's why I asked you to 4 restate it, because it was very compound and very 5 complex, and I'm not sure it's any better now. 6 However, I don't know whether or not 7 there was any study done prior to the agreement 8 that was made between Mr. Rodriguez and the

9 University in December of 2006. I do know that 10 there was a liquidated damages provision in

11 Mr. Rodriguez's original contract, and my

12 understanding is it was requested by

13 Mr. Rodriguez, or his agent at that time, to

14 assess damages that couldn't necessarily be

15 determined at the time. And that's the purpose

16 for a liquidated damages provision.

17 BY MR. ROBON: 18 Q. Okay. 19 Can you explain to the jury, if 20 Coach Rodriguez left in 2007 or before August 31, 21 2008, the liquidated damages penalty provision 22 was $4 million. If he left after August 31 of 23 this year, it was $2 million. 24 A. Uh-huh.

Page 175 1 Q. Can you explain the rationale how 2 there could be only half as much damage. 3 A. Well, again, a liquidated damages 4 provision, as you know, is provided when actual 5 damages can't readily be ascertained by the 6 parties when they enter into an agreement. 7 The original contract that 8 Mr. Rodriguez had had a liquidated damages

9 provision that appeared to stay in there, and was 10 requested by him in the original contract. And I 11 believe grew in relation to the amount of damages 12 that could be suffered by either party as the

13 relationship continued.

14 It, to answer your question, to

15 stairstep down to $2 million was something that

16 was requested by Mr. Rodriguez and/or his team.

17 And, again, as the contract moves forward, the 18 damages would be reduced. 19 Q. Did you look upon Coach Rodriguez's 20 leaving that he was a traitor to the University? 21 A. Did I? No, I did not. 22 Q. Did anybody else in the 23 administration? 24 A. I didn't ask anybody that question

Page 176 1 and didn't entertain answers from them along 2 those lines. 3 Q. What about the Board of Governors, 4 what was their reaction? 5 A. I didn't receive any reaction one way 6 or the other. Surprise, we were all surprised. 7 I was surprised. But I did, did not think him a 8 traitor, and never expressed that to him, I never

9 expressed that to anybody publicly or privately. 10 Q. Can you tell us today, it's seven

11 months after he resigned, what actual damages

12 West Virginia University has suffered by the

13 result of his resigning.

14 MR. FLAHERTY: Object,

15 relevancy.

16 A. Again, actual damages aren't

17 contemplated under the contract, the liquidated 18 damages are. And a liquidated damages provision 19 was placed in the contract to try and contemplate 20 what damages that were not readily ascertained, 21 might be suffered. Some of those could have been 22 reduction in donor activity, which occurred; 23 reduction in -- 24 BY MR. ROBON:

Page 177 1 Q. You said "which did occur"? 2 A. Which did occur. There were some 3 donors who withdrew or withheld donations. 4 Q. Isn't it true that your donations are 5 at an all-time high right now? 6 A. Our donations for the overall 7 University are at an all-time high. 8 Q. Right.

9 A. But there was, there were specific 10 donors, I understand, who withheld donations or

11 retracted donations because Mr. Rodriguez left

12 the University.

13 Q. And what other actual damages are you 14 saying occurred?

15 A. Well, there are all kinds of --

16 again, I go back to my answer when you asked it

17 the first time, about actual damages. There are 18 not actual damages contemplated in this 19 agreement, it's a liquidated damages clause which 20 was put there because the parties were unable to 21 ascertain the actual damages that might occur. 22 And it was for the protection of both parties. 23 Reduction in ticket sales to the 24 bowl, movement of the fan base, hiring a new

Page 178 1 coach, hiring new assistant coaches, damage to 2 the brand. All those things, and more, are 3 things that go into why you have a liquidated 4 damages clause. 5 Q. But you've done no actual study of 6 actual damages, correct? 7 A. There's no need to, there's a 8 liquidated damages clause.

9 Q. My question is: Have you 10 commissioned anybody at the University to do an

11 actual study of actual damages?

12 A. And my answer is: There's no need

13 to, there's a liquidated damages clause in the

14 contract.

15 MR. ROBON: This is a good

16 breaking point.

17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 18 is 12:51 p.m., we're going off the record. 19 * * * 20 (Lunch break) 21 * * * 22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 23 is 1:39 p.m., we're back on the record. 24 BY MR. ROBON:

Page 179 1 Q. While we were off the record, 2 Mr. Garrison, I handed you Exhibit JJ, which was 3 an article that appeared in the MNS News. 4 MR. FLAHERTY: MSN. 5 BY MR. ROBON: 6 Q. MSN. 7 Had you ever seen that article 8 before?

9 A. No. 10 Q. You had a chance to read it, correct?

11 A. I skimmed it, yes, sir.

12 Q. Isn't it very uncomplimentary to

13 Coach Rodriguez, being posted on the Web site of

14 the Mountaineers?

15 A. Is it uncomplimentary as an article? 16 Or is it uncomplimentary to be posted on the Web

17 site? 18 Q. Uncomplimentary as an article. 19 A. I think it's an opinion piece, and I 20 don't necessarily agree with it. This is the 21 first time I've really seen it. 22 Q. Well, the Web site is the official 23 University Web site, right, for the Sports 24 Network?

Page 180 1 A. It is. 2 Q. And you believe that the article is 3 uncomplimentary to Coach Rodriguez? 4 A. There are parts of it that are not 5 complimentary, yes, sir. 6 It does not, however, reflect my 7 opinion. 8 Q. Did you, or any of your staff tell

9 you that this should be withdrawn from the Web 10 site?

11 A. No. It's the first time I've ever

12 seen the article, and I, quite frankly, don't

13 frequent the Web site.

14 Q. During your dealings with Rich

15 Rodriguez, did you ever find him not to be

16 truthful?

17 A. Not that I know of, no, sir. 18 Q. And don't you use the phrase a lot 19 "trust me"? 20 A. No, sir. 21 Q. That's not a regular slang that you 22 use, periodically? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Do you agree with handshakes?

Page 181 1 A. Pardon me? 2 Q. Do you agree on handshakes? 3 A. It depends whose hand it is, I 4 suppose. But I think handshakes are a good form 5 of saying "hello" and "goodbye" and "yes." 6 Q. Are they a form of sealing an 7 understanding, verbal agreement? 8 A. I suppose it could be, it depends on

9 the context. It could be used to express a lot 10 of different things.

11 * * *

12 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition

13 Exhibit CCC was marked for purposes of

14 identification.)

15 * * *

16 BY MR. ROBON:

17 Q. I'm going to hand you what we have 18 marked as Exhibit CCC, it's an article in The 19 Dominion Post. 20 A. Uh-huh. 21 Q. And there's a portion that's 22 highlighted in the, about the fifth paragraph 23 down, and it's a quote from you. It says: 24 "Garrison said the whole Rodriguez saga has

Page 182 1 saddened him." 2 Referring to you. 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 Q. Would you read the next sentence. 5 A. "I think we've got to get back to a 6 point in college athletics where your word means 7 something, where your handshake means something, 8 where if you say you want to be someplace, you'll

9 be someplace." 10 Q. And it says, "Garrison said that."

11 A. That's correct.

12 Q. Now, please continue reading.

13 A. "If you choose another option, we'll

14 respect that. There's a reason these contracts

15 are written the way they are: to avoid the loss

16 of business opportunity that you're premising

17 your contract upon." 18 Q. Was that an accurate quote? 19 A. I assume it was. I don't necessarily 20 know whether it was or not, given the source. 21 Q. And the source, you're not friendly 22 with The Dominion Post? 23 A. I'm not friendly or unfriendly, I've 24 just experienced misquotes there before. But I

Page 183 1 have no reason to believe that's inaccurate. 2 Q. Now, you have in front of you 3 Exhibit BBB, which is Bobby Huggins' contract 4 that you looked at a little while ago. 5 A. Yes, sir. 6 Q. Didn't he originally have a 7 $1 million liquidated damage provision in his 8 contract?

9 A. I believe so. I'm not certain of 10 that, but I believe that was the case.

11 Q. And his contract was signed within

12 the last six months, prior to the one we have in

13 front of you. The one with the $1 million

14 liquidated damages.

15 A. The original contract?

16 Q. Right.

17 A. What was your question, again? I'm 18 sorry, I just want to make sure. 19 Q. Was it signed within the last six 20 months? Since the beginning of the year? 21 A. Yes, sir, it was. 22 Q. And the liquidated damages figure 23 changed from 1 million to 4 million, when he 24 ended up with a contract until he's age 65,

Page 184 1 correct? 2 A. That is correct about the change in 3 the liquidated damages provision. 4 Q. And was this a suggestion by someone 5 in your administration, that you didn't want a 6 contract out there with a head basketball coach 7 that was less than $4 million -- 8 A. No.

9 Q. -- because of the Rodriguez lawsuit? 10 A. It was not.

11 Q. It just happens to match the

12 Rodriguez number. Can you explain why?

13 A. The contract that Mr. Rodriguez is

14 under wasn't taken into consideration, this is

15 the contract for Coach Huggins.

16 Q. Would you agree or disagree that the

17 football program brings in more money than the 18 basketball program? 19 A. I believe it's a bigger revenue 20 driver than the basketball program. It costs 21 more money to run as well. 22 Q. And what's the liquidated damage sum 23 in Bill Stewart's contract? 24 A. I don't believe there is one.

Page 185 1 Q. Is there a contract with Bill 2 Stewart? 3 A. I believe there's a formalized 4 agreement, I don't know if it's been signed yet 5 or not. 6 Q. So the new football coach doesn't 7 have any liquidated damage provision, correct? 8 A. I'm not positive of that, I think

9 that's the case. 10 Q. You'll have your counsel tell me if

11 it's not the case?

12 MR. FLAHERTY: There's

13 already been testimony to the contrary in this

14 case from people who said they knew about it.

15 MR. ROBON: Well, I'm asking, 16 he's the president.

17 MR. FLAHERTY: Yeah, and he's 18 not the athletic director. 19 A. I just don't know. 20 BY MR. ROBON: 21 Q. With regard to the employment 22 contract of Mr. Huggins, Mr. Pastilong refused, 23 initially, to sign the length of the contract; 24 did he not?

Page 186 1 A. I don't believe he, there was ever a 2 refusal to sign any contract. He signed it, we 3 had a number of discussions about it, and -- 4 Q. Was the governor involved in the 5 discussions? 6 A. Not, not that I know of. 7 Q. Did you have any discussions with the 8 governor?

9 A. Only to let him know that the 10 contract had been signed at some point, so he was 11 not surprised by the news.

12 Q. Why did you feel it was necessary

13 that the governor should know that the basketball 14 coach signed his contract?

15 A. We, I ran into the governor somewhere 16 to tell him that. As a practice, our office

17 would, would always inform the governor's office 18 of the news, it would be statewide news, so he is 19 made aware. 20 Q. Did you ever indicate to 21 Coach Rodriguez during your meetings, during the 22 summer of 2007, that he might be wise to have an 23 attorney at his side? 24 A. I don't recall as to whether I did or

Page 187 1 not. 2 Q. And you indicated that you don't ever 3 recall using the phrase "trust me." 4 A. I'm not saying that I didn't, but I 5 don't, it's not -- you asked me if it's a slang 6 term that I use often, and I'm paraphrasing what 7 you said, and it is not a slang phrase that I use 8 often.

9 Q. Shouldn't Rich Rodriguez trust you, 10 since you're his boss?

11 A. Yes.

12 And I should trust him as a valued

13 employee and as a friend.

14 Q. And you would agree that all the

15 things we talked about this morning, that he

16 wanted more money for his assistants, and books

17 for the students, those were all beneficial to 18 the program, not necessarily him. 19 A. They were really more beneficial to 20 the program than to him, and that's the reason 21 they weren't included in his employment contract. 22 Q. What was the relationship between Ed 23 Pastilong and Craig Walker? What is that 24 relationship?

Page 188 1 A. I know they've known each other for a 2 long time. I know Craig used to be employed at 3 the athletic department. 4 Q. Isn't it true that Pastilong resents 5 Craig Walker's interference in the athletic 6 department? 7 A. I don't know, you'd have to ask 8 Director Pastilong about that.

9 Q. Did you hear comments where Pastilong 10 indicated to Walker that he never had problems

11 with the administration before Walker came in?

12 A. I don't recall overhearing that. He

13 may have. I would be surprised that he would say 14 that, but I don't recall hearing that.

15 Q. Did Craig Walker ever say "F you" to

16 Pastilong?

17 A. Not in my presence. 18 Q. But you know that it happened. 19 A. No, I didn't say that. 20 Q. He didn't tell you? 21 A. I don't know. 22 Q. You said you went to Oxford? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. After undergraduate school.

Page 189 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. And you consider yourself a very 3 bright person? 4 A. Do I consider myself a very bright 5 person? 6 Q. Yeah. Do you? 7 A. I'm sorry, could you restate your 8 question.

9 Q. Do you consider yourself a very 10 bright person, intellectually?

11 A. Do I; is that what you're asking?

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. I do okay. I'm certainly lucky to

14 have worked with a lot of, a lot of people that

15 are a lot smarter than me over the years.

16 Q. Did you -- of course, Rich Rodriguez

17 is not as educated as you are, correct? 18 A. I don't know of all of 19 Mr. Rodriguez's formal education, but I find him 20 to be a very intelligent individual. 21 Q. Did you indicate to him that he 22 didn't even know what "deferred compensation" 23 meant in his contract? 24 A. At one point we were discussing, this

Page 190 1 was on December 15, about what had or not been 2 done, because I pointed out to Mr. Rodriguez the 3 things that we had done in good faith, to try and 4 illustrate how much we wanted to keep him here 5 and make sure he was happy. And pointed out that 6 we did, in fact, initiate the deferred comp plan 7 in his contract and took a lot of initiative to 8 do it.

9 Q. Did you indicate that he didn't know 10 what it was?

11 A. I don't recall saying that exactly,

12 but I do recall saying that this was something we 13 took on and something he wanted, and he asked

14 about, and we put together and spent money on to

15 do, and were happy to do it.

16 Q. And if I didn't quote it accurately

17 as, at least he didn't understand deferred 18 compensation. Is that the thrust of what you 19 said? 20 A. When it was first discussed with me 21 by Mr. Rodriguez, it appeared that he was 22 uncertain as to what exactly it meant and how it 23 might fit into the arrangement that he had with 24 the University, and we obtained expert advice on

Page 191 1 how to do that. 2 Q. And after Coach Stewart was hired, 3 did you indicate to the press that you now have a 4 coach who appreciates being here? 5 A. I'm sure I said that, yes. And I 6 believe that. 7 Q. Well, did you believe that 8 Coach Rodriguez didn't appreciate being at the

9 University, at West Virginia University? 10 A. Not up until, not up until he left, I 11 was surprised, very surprised that he left. And

12 I felt that he did appreciate being at the

13 University, and being at the University, as I

14 appreciated it, as our alma mater. I thought

15 that had a special meaning. It did to me, it

16 does to me today, and I thought that there was

17 value in that. And we had a lot of discussion 18 about what that value was. 19 Q. You indicated that when you first met 20 Mike Brown, he came on surly, demanding. Would 21 you use the appropriate words. 22 A. I don't usually use the word "surly." 23 Q. But you kind of indicated that. 24 A. I indicated that Mr. Brown stated

Page 192 1 that he would continue to push "Product 2 Rodriguez" on the national market, that 3 West Virginia University was not equipped or 4 capable of keeping him here, and that he did 5 not -- "he" being Mr. Brown, not Coach Rodriguez, 6 but Mr. Brown -- did not care if there were 7 emotional ties to West Virginia or West Virginia 8 University.

9 Q. Didn't Mr. Brown provide information 10 to your athletic department and to Craig Walker

11 in the fall of 2007 on a number of ways that the

12 University could benefit by implementing certain

13 programs? Premium seats? Premium games?

14 A. I don't know if he provided those

15 things or not. At some point, I recall him

16 discussing those in a conversation.

17 Q. So no matter what your first 18 impression of him was, he was attempting to help 19 the University in the fall of 2007, correct? 20 A. I never took his actions to be 21 attempting to help the University. 22 Q. In suggesting ways to raise revenue, 23 that wouldn't be helping the University? 24 A. I, I don't think it was Mr. Brown's

Page 193 1 place to suggest ways to raise revenue. And I 2 didn't see any documents that he provided -- I'm 3 not saying he didn't provide them -- but I did 4 not take his comments or his suggestions, 5 throughout our time of knowing one another, as 6 helpful in any way. 7 Q. So his efforts at trying to raise 8 money for the University were rebuffed, I guess

9 is what you're telling me. 10 A. I don't know that he made any

11 efforts, sir.

12 Q. Well, Craig Walker yesterday

13 testified that he did receive certain suggestions 14 from Mr. Brown.

15 A. Okay.

16 I don't dispute that, if Craig said

17 it. 18 Q. You talked earlier about the meeting 19 on December 15 of 2007 with Coach Rodriguez. My 20 question to you is: How many times did you have 21 a meeting with Coach Rodriguez between August 24 22 of 2007 and December 15, 2007? 23 A. Well, there were several meetings 24 and/or encounters. I don't know how you define

Page 194 1 "meetings." Would you like to define that? 2 Q. Well, meetings where you discussed 3 progress of what you guys had talked about on 4 August 24. 5 A. I don't recall the number of times. 6 And I also do recall that one reason we wanted to 7 resolve memorializing the term sheet before the 8 season started is that Mr. Rodriguez, once the

9 season started, and he stated this to me many 10 times, and I respected it greatly, that the

11 season was the season, and he was in full

12 coaching mode during the season, and that is why

13 we wanted to wrap this thing up before the first

14 game.

15 I saw him several times during the

16 season, both in person and on the phone. One

17 thing that he indicated to me early on when we 18 met was his disappointment, he and Mrs. Rodriguez 19 both indicated their disappointment in the prior 20 administration not being as supportive, maybe, as 21 they wanted them to be, in visiting the 22 locker room after wins. And I tried to do that, 23 I came down and visited the locker room after 24 wins, and after losses. And so we had a number

Page 195 1 of meetings and encounters. I know we had a 2 number of talks in December as well. 3 Q. Is it true that Mike Wilcox e-mailed 4 you probably three times a month after the 5 August 24 meeting in 2007, keeping you updated? 6 A. I don't know if I'd agree with that 7 number. 8 I knew that he was having e-mail

9 contact with Craig Walker, but was not always 10 included on those e-mails.

11 * * *

12 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition

13 Exhibit DDD was marked for purposes of

14 identification.)

15 * * *

16 BY MR. ROBON:

17 Q. Well, I'm handing you what we've 18 marked as Exhibit DDD. Is this not an e-mail 19 from Craig Walker, actually, to Wilcox, with a 20 copy to you? 21 A. It is an e-mail from Craig Walker to 22 Mike Wilcox, copying me. 23 Q. And the second paragraph from the 24 bottom, would you read Mr. Walker's statement to

Page 196 1 Mike Wilcox. 2 A. The second paragraph from the bottom? 3 Q. Yeah, the one that starts: "Since 4 our initial meeting." 5 A. Oh. 6 "Since our initial meeting in the 7 summer through today, the president remains 8 totally committed to working toward all

9 reasonable requests to improve the program. But 10 at this point, another session to bring up the

11 same issues will just not be productive for

12 anyone."

13 Q. And that's in bold type and

14 underlined, correct?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. So that means "stop complaining about 17 things you want." 18 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 19 form of the question. 20 A. That's not at all how I read it. 21 BY MR. ROBON: 22 Q. How do you read it? 23 A. I read it as a declaratory statement. 24 It says exactly how it reads.

Page 197 1 * * * 2 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 3 Exhibit EEE was marked for purposes of 4 identification.) 5 * * * 6 BY MR. ROBON: 7 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've 8 marked as Defendant's Exhibit EEE.

9 A. Thank you. 10 Q. Is this not an e-mail from Mike

11 Wilcox to you, dated November 27, 2007?

12 A. It appears to be. I don't see any

13 names on the "To" line, but it does say "Mike and 14 Craig," and it was from Mike Wilcox. And above

15 it says -- yes, it says my name at the top.

16 Q. And that would be around Thanksgiving 17 time? 18 A. Roughly, I assume. 19 * * * 20 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 21 Exhibit FFF was marked for purposes of 22 identification.) 23 * * * 24 BY MR. ROBON:

Page 198 1 Q. I'm going to hand you Exhibit FFF, 2 which is an e-mail, two days earlier, on 3 November 25, '07. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Communicating to you, correct? 6 A. It is an e-mail to me from Mike 7 Wilcox. 8 * * *

9 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 10 Exhibit GGG was marked for purposes of

11 identification.)

12 * * *

13 BY MR. ROBON:

14 Q. And then the day before, he sends you 15 another e-mail, Exhibit GGG, November 24 of '07;

16 does he not?

17 A. This is an e-mail from Mike Wilcox to 18 me, yes, sir. 19 Q. Talks about Rich and Rita? 20 A. He does mention the Rodriguezes in 21 his e-mail, yes, sir. And he -- yes, he does. 22 * * * 23 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 24 Exhibit HHH was marked for purposes of

Page 199 1 identification.) 2 * * * 3 BY MR. ROBON: 4 Q. And then six days before that, on 5 November 18, 2007, he sends you another e-mail; 6 does he not? 7 A. This is an e-mail from Mike Wilcox to 8 me, yes, sir.

9 * * * 10 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition

11 Exhibit III was marked for purposes of

12 identification.)

13 * * *

14 BY MR. ROBON:

15 Q. And then on November 15, 2007, he

16 sends you yet another e-mail, you and Craig

17 Walker, correct? 18 A. That is an e-mail from Mike Wilcox, 19 yes, sir. 20 * * * 21 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 22 Exhibit JJJ was marked for purposes of 23 identification.) 24 * * *

Page 200 1 BY MR. ROBON: 2 Q. And I'm going to hand you 3 Exhibit JJJ, this is an e-mail from Mike Brown to 4 Craig Walker regarding Rich Rodriguez; is it not? 5 A. It appears to be. 6 Q. Talks about Rita and Rich? 7 A. Talks about a lot of things in that 8 e-mail.

9 Q. And would you read the second 10 paragraph out loud to the jury.

11 A. "I spent a few days with Rich and

12 Rita last week. Going back to the meeting this

13 summer with you and Mike Garrison and the

14 statement by Mike Garrison that he would be

15 willing to evaluate where things stood in

16 December or January as far as those items Rich

17 brought up as important to the program and their 18 progress. Rich and Rita would like to have that 19 meeting when convenient in December." 20 Q. Read the next paragraph also. 21 A. "Also of importance is the status of 22 different initiatives we have discussed regarding 23 increasing athletic department revenues. We both 24 agree there is millions in revenue not being

Page 201 1 realized. Those revenues, over time, will allow 2 WVU to remain competitive for Rich's services. I 3 was hoping those revenue streams would be in 4 place by 2008 and I think you felt the same." 5 Q. And read the next paragraph. 6 A. "Rich and I are very concerned there 7 is no confirmation the RFP for the network has 8 been released yet."

9 Q. And would you indicate what the RFP 10 meant?

11 A. I can only assume that he was

12 referring to discussions about doing a request

13 for proposals, as related to the Mountaineer

14 Sports Network and the rights to broadcast

15 Mountaineer games.

16 Q. Media services, right?

17 A. Generally, yes. 18 * * * 19 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 20 Exhibit KKK was marked for purposes of 21 identification.) 22 * * * 23 BY MR. ROBON: 24 Q. I'm going to hand you Exhibit KKK.

Page 202 1 Is this another e-mail from Mike Wilcox, dated 2 October 8, 2007? 3 A. It appears to be, yes, sir. 4 Q. Well, you received all these e-mails, 5 correct? 6 A. No, I did not. 7 Q. You did not? 8 A. No.

9 Some I did, some I did not. The 10 prior e-mail that you had me read from, was from

11 Mike Brown to Craig Walker.

12 Q. And did Craig Walker not tell you

13 about that e-mail?

14 A. He may have told me about that, but I 15 did not receive the e-mail.

16 Q. Or he may have showed you the e-mail?

17 A. I'm sure he did not show me the 18 e-mail. 19 Q. You're sure he told, as a chief of 20 staff he would told you about something that came 21 in. 22 A. Craig didn't tell me about every 23 e-mail that came in. He would mention them to me 24 if they were necessary to mention it to me.

Page 203 1 * * * 2 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 3 Exhibit LLL was marked for purposes of 4 identification.) 5 * * * 6 BY MR. ROBON: 7 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've 8 marked as LLL, which is another e-mail from Mike

9 Wilcox, dated September 6 of 2007. 10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Did you receive that one?

12 A. Yes, it says from Mike Wilcox to me

13 and to Craig Walker, and it's forwarding another

14 e-mail.

15 Q. And, let's see, how many e-mails do

16 you have there in front of you from Wilcox?

17 A. From Wilcox? 18 Q. If you add them up, there's six or 19 seven? 20 A. Six, seven, yes, sir. 21 Q. Seven e-mails between September and 22 early December. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. So, you said before, you said you got

Page 204 1 one every three weeks or so. That's actually a 2 little more than one every three weeks; is it 3 not? 4 A. No, you asked me if I received one -- 5 or three a month from Mr. Wilcox, and I said I 6 didn't know if I agreed with that number. 7 Q. Did you ever respond by e-mail to 8 Mr. Wilcox?

9 A. I may have. Not frequently. 10 Q. Did you just throw these in a box,

11 ignore them?

12 A. I don't normally print out my

13 e-mails, so there wouldn't be anything to throw

14 them in. But I certainly didn't ignore them.

15 Q. Do you look at your own e-mails on

16 the computer, or do you have a secretary to do

17 that? 18 A. Both. 19 Q. Do you generally then delete them, or 20 do you save them? 21 A. They are self-deleted, and I delete 22 them from time to time, to speed up the computer. 23 Q. Isn't it a fact that the Rodriguez 24 advisors, Mike Brown and Mike Wilcox, during the

Page 205 1 fall season, tried to keep open a communication 2 line between them and you and Craig Walker? 3 A. I think there was an open 4 communication line, particularly between 5 Mr. Wilcox and Craig, and from time to time with 6 me. As you can see from the e-mails, Mr. Wilcox 7 indicates that we saw each other. He was an 8 invited guest, more than once, at the president's

9 home and the president's suite at the football 10 games. I actually stopped to see him at our

11 visiting game in Cincinnati, where I went over to 12 watch our game. And I think there was a very

13 open line of communication with Mr. Wilcox.

14 * * *

15 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition

16 Exhibit MMM was marked for purposes of

17 identification.) 18 * * * 19 20 BY MR. ROBON: 21 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've 22 marked as Exhibit MMM, which is an article in The 23 Dominion Post titled "Pastilong Kept Out of 24 Loop." Have you seen that article in the past?

Page 206 1 A. I may have, I don't recall it, but I 2 don't know if I have or not. 3 Q. It talks about, the subheading, it 4 says: "Garrison held meetings with Rod" -- 5 referring to Rodriguez -- "without athletic 6 director knowing." 7 And that's true; is it not? 8 A. I'm not sure whether the director

9 knew about every meeting I had with Mr. Rodriguez 10 or not.

11 Q. There's a quote on the one, two,

12 three, four, the fifth paragraph down, it says:

13 "Rich asks." Would you read that out loud, that

14 paragraph.

15 A. "'Rich asked who his boss was and

16 whom he should report to. Mike Garrison

17 responded by saying that he wanted Rich to go 18 through Eddie first and try and work with Eddie, 19 but if there's ever a problem, that he should 20 call Garrison and Craig,' Wilcox wrote." 21 Obviously quoting an e-mail or 22 statement from Mike Wilcox. 23 Q. And then the next line. 24 A. "Garrison and Walker declined to

Page 207 1 comment, University spokeswoman Amy Neil said. 2 'Those involved have been refraining from 3 responding to questions regarding any of the 4 e-mails due to pending litigation.'" 5 Q. Is it fair to say that you made those 6 remarks? 7 A. I think this is a paraphrase of my 8 remarks, by Mike Wilcox.

9 Q. Now, let's go back, we started three 10 times and I never got there, on that meeting on

11 December 15 of 2007. Can you tell me what

12 happened in the early part of the day, that was a 13 Saturday, with regard to Ed Pastilong and Craig

14 Walker and Coach Rodriguez.

15 A. On Saturday, December 15, my

16 recollection and understanding is that there was

17 a meeting among those individuals. 18 Q. And did they call you? 19 A. I can't recall if they called me or 20 spoke to me in person. But at some point, I was 21 aware that there had been or was going to be a 22 meeting. 23 Q. Did they call you after the meeting 24 and tell you what transpired?

Page 208 1 A. I spoke with Craig, I believe, after 2 the meeting. 3 Q. And what did he tell you? 4 A. Generally conveyed to me that they 5 had a meeting with Mr. Rodriguez. And this was, 6 of course, the day after we discovered that, or 7 understand, I understood through media reports 8 that there was a meeting with Mr. Rodriguez and

9 officials from the University of Michigan. And 10 that was confirmed in the meeting, according to

11 Craig. And that there was a discussion about

12 that, with the director and with Craig and with

13 Mr. Rodriguez, and a discussion about what

14 Mr. Rodriguez's plans were.

15 Q. And what did they say Rich Rodriguez

16 said to them?

17 A. Generally, they said that he told 18 them he had met with the University of Michigan 19 officials, as I recall. I don't remember the 20 specifics about that. And that he talked about 21 some of the things that were talked about back 22 during the fall, in terms of Web sites and those 23 sorts of things, what the process report was on 24 those things.

Page 209 1 Q. Did they indicate that he felt a 2 feeling of frustration of the athletic department 3 not being responsive to the promises that were 4 made back on August 24 of 2007? 5 A. They didn't indicate, to my 6 recollection, they did indicate that he had 7 expressed general frustration and, but did not 8 indicate where that frustration was coming from.

9 Q. Did they indicate that they told him 10 that they could not, and would not at that point

11 in time, implement any of those items that were

12 left open: the Web site, the books, the free

13 coaching entries, things like that?

14 A. They did not. They indicated that,

15 at some point during the discussion,

16 Mr. Rodriguez said that he wanted an answer,

17 "yes" or "no," today on these things. And that 18 the director conveyed to him that if the answer 19 today is "no," but we are working on, working 20 toward these issues. 21 And that had been what we had talked 22 about for some time, we were working on these 23 issues. And it was important to note that we 24 were continuing to work on these issues.

Page 210 1 Q. Were there any communications, 2 e-mails from you or Craig Walker to Mike Wilcox, 3 Mike Brown or to Coach Rodriguez, indicating any 4 status report of how you were working on these 5 open issues? 6 A. I don't know if there were e-mails, I 7 can only speak for myself. My, there weren't any 8 e-mails to these individuals. I met with

9 Coach Rodriguez on December 8, for an amount of 10 time, to talk about how much we were supportive

11 of him. I went to -- to take you back -- I went

12 to the locker room, or tried to go to the locker

13 room, after the December 1 game, and show my

14 support to Mr. and Mrs. Rodriguez. It was a

15 tough game for all of us, and I know how, I know

16 how important it was to Mr. Rodriguez. And it

17 was important to all of us. 18 I wasn't able to see him. I did 19 speak briefly with Mrs. Rodriguez and indicated 20 to her that I wanted to see him, I wanted to talk 21 with him, just to show my support. Because I 22 had, had a good understanding of how difficult 23 that game was, and the aftermath of that game 24 was.

Page 211 1 We eventually met on December 8, 2 which was the following Saturday, and talked at 3 length about our continued commitment to working 4 on these issues, talked about the upcoming game, 5 the Fiesta Bowl game. I think we knew about it 6 at that point, I don't know that it had been 7 officially announced, but I know there was talk 8 that that's where we're going, how important that

9 was, how supportive I was, how much that game 10 would mean, and how winning that game was what

11 the focus should be on, and not to worry about

12 the last game.

13 Q. Did you show him or give him any

14 timetable whereby the open issues, the Web site,

15 the coaches' waiver of fees, the student athlete

16 textbooks, things like that, would be concluded?

17 A. I don't recall giving a precise 18 timetable, but we had always said that once the 19 season was concluded, we would be able to resolve 20 these issues one way or the other, and we would 21 continue to work on them. The season was not 22 concluded and -- for one. 23 And, two, it seemed to me that the 24 important thing to focus on were two things:

Page 212 1 number one, how Mr. Rodriguez was feeling, what 2 his mental state was at the time, because he, to 3 me, appeared very distraught, and I cared about 4 that; and beyond that, I thought the important 5 thing to take a look at was the Fiesta Bowl game 6 and preparing for that. 7 Q. Didn't Coach Rodriguez, when he met 8 with you in July and August of 2007, indicate

9 that he wanted these bullet point items, that we 10 talked about two or three hours ago, implemented

11 during the 2007 football season and not after the 12 season was over?

13 A. I don't recall him saying that. I

14 recall, in fact, I recall saying that we will

15 work on these items, some are easier to achieve

16 than others, some would take more time than

17 others. The number of graduate assistants, for 18 instance, requires a good deal of examination as 19 related to NCAA regulations, which I have since 20 discovered. I did not know that at the time. 21 Q. Is it fair to say that Ed Pastilong 22 basically nixed every idea that Coach had or 23 requested for the betterment of the development 24 of the football program?

Page 213 1 A. I don't think that's fair to say. 2 Q. Didn't he nix the Web site? Didn't 3 he nix the student, the students getting 4 textbooks? Didn't he nix the more money for the 5 assisting coaches? Didn't he nix free entries 6 for the football coaches? 7 A. He did not. We were exploring all 8 the parts of those somewhat complex inquiries, to

9 determine which were viable and which were not. 10 In fact, since you bring it up, on

11 the Web site, Mr. Rodriguez's own financial

12 advisor sent one or more e-mails and told me,

13 personally, that maybe it's a good thing we

14 didn't do this Web site, look at all the problems 15 it caused at Texas A&M.

16 Q. And that's Mr. Wilcox or Mr. Brown?

17 A. I assume Mr. Wilcox is 18 Mr. Rodriguez's financial advisor, that's my 19 assumption and understanding. 20 Q. That's your understanding of what he 21 said. 22 A. Yes, sir. 23 Q. How many coaches have their own Web 24 sites?

Page 214 1 A. I don't have no idea. 2 Q. Is there one? 3 A. I don't know. 4 Q. You never checked it out? 5 A. No, I don't. 6 Q. And you didn't give a subordinate an 7 assignment to check it out? 8 A. I believe, from the one of the prior

9 exhibits, that Chief of Staff Walker asked to 10 make a determination about the viability of a Web 11 site. I don't know if he asked to count the

12 specific number of Division 1 coaches' Web sites

13 that exist.

14 Q. What happened in the late afternoon,

15 early evening of December 15? Coach Rodriguez

16 came over to your house with Dusty Rutledge?

17 A. It was actually the evening of 18 December 15. 19 Q. Okay. 20 And as a result of that meeting, I 21 understand that on Monday morning, the 16th, 22 could be the 17th, I guess, Dusty Rutledge was 23 reassigned from the football program to the 24 coliseum in early morning.

Page 215 1 A. I don't think it had anything to do 2 with, as you stated, as a result of that meeting. 3 You asked me whether they arrived at my house on 4 December 15. 5 Q. No, I asked you about was he 6 reassigned. 7 A. I understand that he was reassigned. 8 Q. Did you give the directive that he be

9 reassigned? 10 A. I did not.

11 Q. Who give that directive?

12 A. I don't know.

13 Q. Well, it had to have been one of

14 three people, correct? Either you, Craig Walker

15 or the athletic director.

16 A. I don't know.

17 Q. Well, who else would have authority 18 over Dusty Rutledge? 19 A. It could have been a number of people 20 in the athletic department. 21 I don't know, you asked me who gave 22 the directive, I don't know who gave the 23 directive. 24 Q. Did you know about it?

Page 216 1 A. I found out about it after the fact. 2 Q. How long after the fact? 3 A. I don't recall, a week. 4 Q. Same day? 5 A. No, a week or two later. It wasn't, 6 it's not exactly something that was high on the 7 list of things that we were dealing with at the 8 time.

9 Q. When the coach and Dusty Rutledge 10 came to your house on the evening of the 15th of

11 December, that was a Saturday night.

12 A. Yes, sir.

13 Q. Was it, what, 9:00, 10:00 o'clock?

14 A. Oh, I received a phone call from

15 Craig Walker at maybe 8:30 or 9:00 o'clock,

16 indicating that he had received a phone call, or

17 calls from individuals who said that 18 Mr. Rodriguez wanted to see me at the house, and 19 would I receive him at the house. 20 And I said, sure, that I would. I'd 21 placed a call to his cell and to his home earlier 22 that afternoon, just to say, you know, "If you 23 want to talk at any point, I'm always available." 24 And he knew my numbers and

Page 217 1 everything. I had just gotten back from a 2 basketball game, there was a basketball game that 3 afternoon, and I received a call from Craig, 4 again, indicating that there were individuals who 5 had told him that Mr. Rodriguez wanted to come to 6 the house. 7 Q. And did he go to you as a final 8 effort to get a commitment to carry out the

9 promises that were made in the summer of 2007? 10 A. That was not what I was told, and

11 that was not my impression, based upon the

12 meeting.

13 Q. Did he indicate to you that he wanted 14 an answer from you, a commitment that the various 15 things that we had talked about -- more money for 16 the assisting coaches, free student textbooks for 17 the student athletes, free passes for the 18 basketball, for the high school coaches at 19 various games, the other bullet point items -- he 20 wanted an answer, correct? 21 A. No, that's not correct. What 22 happened was, when Craig conveyed to me that the 23 coach wanted to come and visit me at the house -- 24 Q. I want to know what happened once

Page 218 1 he's there. 2 A. I'll let you know that in just a 3 second, I just wanted to -- 4 Q. Well, answer my question. 5 MR. FLAHERTY: He's trying 6 to, and you keep interrupting him. 7 A. So when Craig conveyed that to me, he 8 indicated that a number of folks called him, or a

9 couple of folks had called him and said that 10 Mr. Rodriguez wanted to come over, quote, "to

11 tell me he was staying and that he just needed a

12 hug." That was, that was what Craig said was

13 said to him.

14 And I am always ready, and was always 15 ready, to have Mr. Rodriguez at the home. He

16 came, came to the home about 9:00 or 9:30, was

17 accompanied by Mr. Rutledge, and we talked. 18 BY MR. ROBON: 19 Q. Had you been drinking, by the way? 20 A. Had I been drinking? 21 Q. Yes. 22 A. No, I had not. 23 Q. You hadn't had any wine or beer or 24 anything?

Page 219 1 A. No. I offered Mr. Rodriguez a drink 2 of water, or whatever he wanted, as is customary 3 when someone visits your home, and he refused. 4 We sat down, and it was a rainy and 5 pretty windy night, and we sat down, and he 6 appeared to me to be very distraught, and said 7 that -- and I'm paraphrasing -- that he said he 8 wanted me to make it easy on him to stay.

9 And I indicated to him that I knew he 10 felt like he had a tough decision, and that I was 11 surprised to hear about it on the news. I

12 thought at least I would be afforded a phone call 13 or a discussion, before I heard about it on the

14 news.

15 Q. Heard about what on the news?

16 A. That he was engaged in discussions

17 with the University of Michigan. 18 Q. Well, it happened quite frequently -- 19 I mean quite quickly; did it not, as far as you 20 know? 21 A. Not more quickly than it would take 22 to pick up the phone and call someone. 23 So, anyhow, we went back to talking 24 about it, and Mr. Rodriguez indicated that he had

Page 220 1 hoped I would make it easy on him. I indicated 2 that I understood that he had a decision to make, 3 and he had a decision to make, and he had to 4 think first and foremost about himself and about 5 his family. And I respected that, and I 6 respected his decision as a man, whatever 7 decision he would make. 8 But that ultimately it was his

9 decision, but there's some things I wanted to 10 say. And, one, I wanted him to remain at West

11 Virginia University, I thought it was a great

12 place to be. I was committed to Mr. and

13 Mrs. Rodriguez having a long career at

14 West Virginia University. I was committed to

15 continuing to work on the things that we had

16 discussed. And that I felt that there was a

17 great deal of value, a great deal of value in 18 being able to coach at your home institution, at 19 your home, and at your alma mater. And that he 20 had an opportunity, in my opinion, to have a 21 legacy like few other coaches would have at, by 22 staying at WVU. 23 But I did respect the fact that he 24 had a very difficult decision to make. I didn't

Page 221 1 feel it was a difficult decision, because of the 2 way I feel about West Virginia University. He 3 indicated it was a very difficult decision, and, 4 again, appeared to be very distraught and 5 troubled. 6 Q. Did you basically tell him no, you 7 could not give him a commitment that evening to 8 the open items that he was looking for a

9 conclusion on? 10 A. I didn't say "yes" or "no," what I

11 said was, "We will continue to look at these

12 items, that's what we need to focus on as your

13 future here at West Virginia University."

14 And these are all paraphrased

15 discussions. But I also told him that I thought

16 there was a great deal of value, value, to coach

17 at your alma mater. 18 He disagreed with that. 19 Q. And didn't you use the words "no, no, 20 no"? 21 A. I don't recall. 22 Q. When he asked for a commitment from 23 you? 24 A. I don't recall saying that.

Page 222 1 I was not prepared to give him a 2 commitment on things like a Web site or $5 3 coaches tickets at that time. To me, it seemed 4 that the discussion was far more importantly 5 focused on my, my real surprise that he was 6 engaged in meaningful, apparent negotiations the 7 day before with another university. That 8 surprised me very much. That surprised me very

9 much. 10 Q. Did you call the governor and tell

11 him?

12 A. When?

13 Q. Either Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

14 A. I don't recall calling the governor

15 on Friday or Saturday. I'm sure at some point on 16 Sunday I spoke to him, to let him know what I had 17 heard from the media. Again, I had never heard, 18 and have not heard to this day, other than 19 through media reports that Mr. Rodriguez -- 20 obviously, we know this -- chose to go to the 21 University of Michigan. 22 Q. Isn't it true that the governor 23 called you, once he found out that Michigan had 24 been calling on Rich, and said, "Don't give him

Page 223 1 another nickel," or something to that effect, "He 2 won't leave"? 3 A. No. 4 I don't, if the governor knew about 5 that, he surely knew about it ahead of time than 6 I did, because, again, I found out about it 7 Friday afternoon from media reports. 8 Q. Well, my question was: Did the

9 governor call you or get a message to you, "Don't 10 give him any more money"?

11 A. He did not call me nor did he get a

12 message to me, nor would it have mattered if he

13 had.

14 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Five

15 minutes.

16 BY MR. ROBON:

17 Q. So how long did that meeting at your 18 house last on the evening of September -- or 19 December 15, 2007? 20 A. You know, I want to say an hour, 21 maybe a little longer. And I was, I was 22 generally concerned as someone who, I felt like I 23 was a friend to Mr. Rodriguez and someone who, I 24 was concerned about him because he did seem

Page 224 1 distraught, he seemed troubled. 2 Q. When you say "distraught," what do 3 you mean, distraught? 4 A. He often put his head in his hands 5 and said, "I don't know, I thought you were going 6 to make this easy. I came here because I thought 7 you were going to make this easy." 8 Q. And by that he meant that you would

9 say, "We want you to stay, we're going to give 10 you a Web site, we're going to let the coaches in 11 for nothing, and we're going to give our students 12 textbooks."

13 A. I don't know what he meant by that.

14 And I couldn't imagine that those things, that we 15 were exploring and looking at, would be the

16 linchpin for someone to make a decision of that

17 magnitude. 18 Q. Well, to him, they were much more 19 important, obviously, than they were to you. 20 A. They were not unimportant to me, 21 that's why I asked somebody to spend a lot of 22 time to review them, among other issues. And his 23 existence at the University and longevity at the 24 University was quite important to me, that's why

Page 225 1 we did a number of things to make sure he was 2 happy and to keep him there. 3 And it was very important to me, 4 personally, let me add, because I believed in 5 Mr. Rodriguez and what his plans for the future 6 were, and I thought he was doing a great job. 7 And I tried to express that to him, that to not 8 be down about the December 1 game, that I was

9 still supportive, couldn't be more supportive. 10 Had asked him the weekend before, on December 8,

11 after that meeting, to accompany Heather and I,

12 with Mrs. Rodriguez, to a basketball game, to be

13 out there and make sure that people knew,

14 symbolically and reality, he was supported by the 15 University.

16 He asked me, after that December 8

17 meeting, to speak to some recruits and their 18 families, and I did that. I felt, I felt 19 compelled, as president and as his friend, to be 20 supportive of him. 21 Q. Now, Dusty Rutledge was in the other 22 room, correct? 23 A. He was somewhere around the corner, 24 I'm not sure exactly where he was. He was not in

Page 226 1 our meeting. 2 Q. Did you ask him to leave, or could he 3 have overheard the conversation? 4 A. I asked him to sit down outside of 5 where we were meeting. It was a private meeting, 6 as I understood it, between Mr. Rodriguez and 7 myself. 8 Q. But the door wasn't closed, was it?

9 A. I don't recall whether it was or not. 10 Q. Did you raise your voice so he could

11 hear?

12 A. There was one point in the

13 conversation where I probably did raise my voice.

14 Q. Did you yell, in fact?

15 A. I don't know if I yelled or not, but

16 there was, there was one point in the

17 conversation where I did become aggravated, and 18 it was the point in the conversation when I 19 expressed my strong feelings, which I maintain 20 today, that there is great value in coaching at 21 your alma mater, at your home university, and in 22 your home state. 23 I was responded to, by Mr. Rodriguez, 24 with him saying that he wasn't sure he believed

Page 227 1 that anymore, that the fans had been very down on 2 him after December 1, and that he, he didn't 3 think the place was necessarily any more special 4 than anyplace else. And I was angry about that. 5 And I'm sure he was angry about his feelings. 6 Q. The way that he was being treated. 7 A. He expressed that to me. And I told 8 him that I did not agree with that treatment, and

9 I would not condone it, and would speak out 10 against it if he wanted me to. But I also would

11 not sit idly by or condone negative statements

12 about the state or the University.

13 Q. Did you see the article in the MNS,

14 "Pitt is it," after the loss of that game?

15 A. I said earlier -- it's MSN.

16 Q. MSN.

17 A. I said earlier, I don't frequent that 18 Web site or read those articles. 19 MR. ROBON: Let's change the 20 tape. 21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 22 is 2:33 p.m., we're going off the record. This 23 concludes tape four. 24 * * *

Page 228 1 (Brief break) 2 * * * 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 4 is 2:34 p.m., we are back on the record. This 5 begins tape five. 6 BY MR. ROBON: 7 Q. The conversations that took place on 8 December 15 with Dusty Rutledge in the other

9 room, if he testifies that he heard the 10 conversations, both of you had been talking

11 loudly, correct?

12 A. I don't know what he may or may not

13 testify to, but he was not part of our

14 conversation.

15 Q. Were you standing up or sitting down

16 during the conversation?

17 A. We were sitting down. 18 Q. And how far apart were you? 19 A. Oh, maybe, maybe three feet apart, in 20 two high-back chairs. 21 Q. Was a table in-between? 22 A. I don't recall if there's a table or 23 not. I don't think there was. There could have 24 been.

Page 229 1 Q. Did you think about calling the 2 chairman of the board? 3 A. When? 4 Q. When Coach was there. 5 A. No, I did not. 6 Q. To see if something could be done to 7 convince him he should stay? 8 A. No, I did not.

9 Q. Did you call the chairman of the 10 board after he left?

11 A. I'm sure I spoke with him before the

12 end of the day on Sunday, may have spoken with

13 him Sunday morning, I just don't recall. I don't 14 believe I spoke with him that evening, it was

15 rather late.

16 Q. Did Rich Rodriguez indicate to you

17 that if you basically would not give him a 18 commitment, he felt he was being pushed out of 19 the University? 20 A. I don't think he used those exact 21 words. He did, he did indicate his frustration 22 that he was not supported or valued at the 23 University. And I simply did not agree with 24 that. I had expressed it in so many different

Page 230 1 ways. 2 I also expressed to him -- and he 3 expressed frustration, that he felt like he had 4 been told "no" on the demands he made earlier in 5 the day. 6 Q. And you confirmed the "no," didn't 7 you? 8 A. I said that we would continue to

9 review them, and we wanted to be able to provide 10 an answer, but there was no clarity or decision

11 that had been made, nor a commitment that it

12 would be made by December 15. And there were

13 issues that needed to be resolved.

14 Q. So did you have the feeling or belief 15 that when he walked out the door, he was going to 16 stay or leave, or did you know?

17 A. I didn't know. It was clear, his 18 frustration was very clear and his feelings were 19 very clear, that he was frustrated and 20 distraught. He seemed very different than the 21 person I was used to dealing with. He, I recall 22 during the meeting saying that, again, "I know 23 that you believe this is a tough decision, I do 24 not. But if you feel you have to make it, I will

Page 231 1 support you. I don't want you to make it, I want 2 you to stay here, but it should be made in the 3 right way. If you were not going to go, I want 4 you to please tell everyone you're not going, 5 because this speculation was good for no one." 6 Q. Isn't it true that he never once, on 7 December 15, asked you, Craig Walker or the 8 athletic director for any monetary increase in

9 his pay, he simply asked for program enhancements 10 for the University?

11 A. He really --

12 Q. And you can answer it "yes" or "no." 13 MR. FLAHERTY: Answer it any

14 way you want to.

15 A. I'd like to answer it the way that

16 it's most explanatory and --

17 BY MR. ROBON: 18 Q. It's an easy question, he asked for 19 it or he didn't. 20 A. Do you want me to answer the question 21 or not? 22 Q. I expect you to answer the question. 23 A. I intend to. 24 My answer is --

Page 232 1 Q. I don't need you sparring with me, 2 just tell me whether he did or he didn't. 3 A. May I answer now? 4 MR. FLAHERTY: Go ahead and 5 answer. 6 BY MR. ROBON: 7 Q. Go ahead and answer. 8 A. There was never a time when there was

9 complete clarity as to exactly what Mr. Rodriguez 10 was asking for. He did mention some of the

11 issues that we discussed earlier in the fall, he

12 also mentioned assistant coaches' salaries. And

13 I asked him, "What would those amounts be? How

14 much would it be? What would it take?"

15 He had mentioned, not during that

16 meeting, but during the December 8 meeting, his

17 assistant coaches, and I specifically mentioned 18 to let us know what those numbers would look 19 like, in particular, Coach Magee. We talked 20 about that. 21 And I said to him, you know, "What, 22 what does it take to make sure that he stays 23 here? Of course, if he's offered a head coaching 24 position, there's probably no number that would

Page 233 1 keep him here; isn't that right?" 2 And Mr. Rodriguez indicated, "That's 3 probably right, if he gets a head coaching shot 4 somewhere." 5 And I said, "Let us know what those 6 numbers are. I can't guarantee anything." 7 But that was the only monetary 8 discussion we had, but he was really not clear on

9 specifically what his issues were. I knew those 10 were issues he had had before, but he was very

11 distraught.

12 Q. But he didn't ask for more money for

13 himself, correct?

14 A. I do not recall him asking for more

15 money for himself.

16 Q. So he leaves the house somewhere

17 around 10:00 o'clock p.m. 18 A. It was after 10:00 o'clock p.m. 19 Q. Dusty Rutledge leaves with him, 20 correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And did you make any phone calls that 23 evening? 24 A. I believe I called Craig Walker, to

Page 234 1 let him know that I had the meeting, and the 2 meeting did not go as described, as described to 3 me, it was a meeting where Mr. Rodriguez was 4 going to come by and tell me he intended to stay 5 but that he needed to feel valued. And, again, 6 as Craig said, was put to him -- these were not 7 Craig's words, but somebody's words to Craig -- 8 you know, just needed a hug, he needed to know

9 people were still behind him. 10 And I was surprised by that, because

11 I, there was never a point, ever, from the minute 12 I hit the campus, that I was not publicly or

13 privately very supportive of Mr. Rodriguez.

14 Q. Could you imagine the frustration

15 that he went through from the time he met with

16 you in August of '07 to December, which would

17 be -- September, October -- four months, with 18 little or no communication from the athletic 19 director, and the athletic director having the 20 governor on his side as a friend, and the 21 administration being you and Craig Walker, 22 attempting to get something done, perhaps, but 23 being stymied by the athletic department, and 24 he's in the middle and can't get anywhere. Did

Page 235 1 you ever think about that? 2 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 3 form. 4 A. I disagree -- yeah, I'm sorry -- I 5 disagree that we were stymieing and didn't get 6 anything done. From the beginning of our 7 discussions, during the summer of '07, we did a 8 number of things that didn't exist. And I tried

9 to point those out, as related to the second 10 amendment, and I've spoken of those earlier in

11 this deposition: reducing the liquidated damages 12 clause earlier than it would have been,

13 structuring a repayment that was a better term

14 than he originally agreed to, providing deferred

15 compensation, making sure that Mrs. Rodriguez was 16 taken care of on the sidelines pass, making sure

17 that he had had control of the sidelines, 18 starting to explore other opportunities. 19 20 BY MR. ROBON: 21 Q. We talked about those. 22 A. You used the word "stymied" by the 23 athletic department, and I vehemently disagree 24 with that assessment. In fact, I spent as much

Page 236 1 time on this issue as any issue, as a new 2 president. And I know that Craig Walker spent 3 more time on it, because we heard about it all 4 the time and we were trying to help. 5 Q. Do you acknowledge that there was a 6 lack of communication with the athletic 7 department and Coach Rodriguez? 8 A. I have been told that by

9 Mr. Rodriguez, I don't know whether -- 10 Q. Did you ever investigate it?

11 A. I didn't investigate it.

12 Q. Did you call Ed Pastilong in and say, 13 "Look, you know, I'm a new administration here,

14 we got a good coach, we want to keep him, we want 15 to enhance our program. Work with us and not

16 against us."

17 Did you ever do that? 18 A. I talked very frequently to the 19 director about my support of athletics in general 20 and my support of the athletic department. And I 21 felt like the contract, as it was structured, was 22 more than an indicator that we cared about 23 keeping Mr. Rodriguez happy at the institution. 24 Q. Do you want to answer my question:

Page 237 1 Did you ever talk to Mr. Pastilong about those 2 concerns? 3 A. The same answer. I spoke with him 4 frequently about my support of the athletic 5 program, the football program, my belief in 6 Mr. Rodriguez as a head coach and what he was 7 doing for the program. And I believe that he 8 was, you know, very well supported by the

9 contract and by our administration. 10 Q. Isn't it true that Pastilong felt,

11 and probably still feels today, that you can't

12 fire him because he's friends with the governor?

13 A. I have no idea if he feels that way,

14 he's never expressed that to me.

15 Q. Now, tell me, that's December 15, you 16 get the notice he's resigning the next day, a

17 lawsuit was filed on December 27. 18 Who in your administration or Board 19 of Governors decided that a lawsuit should be 20 filed before any moneys were due on the buyout? 21 A. We did, as an administration, I 22 consulted with General Counsel Macia, I consulted 23 with the chair of the Board of Governors, and 24 made a determination that it would be prudent and

Page 238 1 appropriate to file a lawsuit. And the reason 2 for that is because I recalled distinctly 3 watching on Monday, December 16, Mr. Rodriguez's 4 press conference at Michigan, when he was asked 5 by a reporter about the liquidated damages 6 clause, and his reply was that the lawyers were 7 working on that. 8 Q. And isn't that a comment that you

9 made in the summertime? 10 A. It is not.

11 Q. Didn't say he wasn't going to pay in

12 the news conference, correct?

13 A. He indicated that the lawyers were

14 working on it. I knew that we hadn't engaged any 15 lawyers to work on it, and so it seemed pretty

16 clear to me that there was going to be a dispute

17 about what I thought was a very clear contractual 18 agreement. 19 Q. Do you agree with me that the 20 University took a hard-line stance in the media 21 against Coach Rodriguez? 22 A. No. I agree that the University 23 decided to protect its fiduciary interest. And, 24 frankly, I have never had -- I, on behalf of the

Page 239 1 University, had never said anything negative 2 about Mr. Rodriguez in the media. 3 Q. With respect to the shredding 4 incident that was leaked, obviously, by somebody 5 in your administration or in the athletic 6 department -- 7 A. I don't know that to be the case. 8 Q. How else would a reporter find out

9 someone's making charges? 10 A. I don't know. But I don't agree with 11 your assertion that that is the case.

12 Q. Did you investigate, yourself,

13 whether anything was actually shredded of any

14 value?

15 A. Personally, did I investigate?

16 Q. Yes.

17 A. No, I did not. 18 Q. Did you get a report from anybody 19 indicating what was shredded and what its value 20 was? 21 A. I did not. 22 Q. Did you make any effort to quell the 23 nasty comments that were being made by the fans 24 of West Virginia University about

Page 240 1 Coach Rodriguez? At a hockey game, they had a 2 shredding party. Did the University take any 3 steps or its PR department to quell that type of 4 attitude? 5 A. We don't have a hockey, we don't own 6 a hockey team, it's in Wheeling. 7 Q. No, I understand. But it was at a 8 hockey game.

9 A. Yes. 10 My personal statements were always

11 very respectful of Mr. and Mrs. Rodriguez. I

12 said, more than once, that I did not agree with

13 any fan behavior that was threatening or

14 negative. And I don't agree with that, I don't

15 think that's appropriate behavior, and never

16 have. And I've tried to encourage people by my

17 own comments and by my own behavior, to make sure 18 that that was not the case. 19 Q. Does the University have a public 20 relations person? 21 A. There are a number of people who work 22 in our communications department. 23 Q. Did you discuss or did you have Craig 24 Walker, chief of staff, discuss with anybody in

Page 241 1 your public relations department to attempt to 2 quell the comments and the, like the shredding 3 incident, and there was another incident with his 4 automobile, or phone calls threatening him that 5 they were going to pick up his automobile when, 6 in fact, he had returned it. I don't even know 7 if you know about that. 8 A. I don't know about that.

9 I directed anyone who worked at the 10 University to refrain from any negative comments. 11 They weren't productive, and we did not, as an

12 administration, think it was productive to talk

13 openly about this matter, particularly after it

14 was in litigation. It is not my style,

15 personally, to be negative, and I didn't feel

16 that way.

17 Q. Well, my question still is: Did you 18 direct anybody in your public relations 19 department to attempt to quell -- 20 A. How would -- let me ask you: How 21 would I do that? I'm not sure I understand your 22 question. How would I attempt to quell that? 23 Would I, what would I do? Directing everyone not 24 to speak --

Page 242 1 Q. You could have released a statement 2 that, you know, "We wish the coach well in his 3 new job, he's served us well, long and hard. We 4 really appreciated his service. We're sad to see 5 that he's leaving, but, again, he has an 6 obligation to his family and friends. And we 7 congratulate him on making a move." 8 I mean why wasn't something like that

9 done? 10 MR. WAKEFIELD: That he owes

11 us $4 million.

12 A. We've said, I said nothing negative

13 at all.

14 MR. ROBON: Move to strike

15 the $4 million.

16 A. And, again, once we were in,

17 litigation had been commenced, my position was 18 that we would not speak about it publicly. But 19 if asked, my position was always that this type 20 of behavior was inappropriate and it shouldn't 21 occur. 22 BY MR. ROBON: 23 Q. Why didn't you go one step further 24 and talk about it positively, as an individual?

Page 243 1 You got a chance to -- like you taking a job at 2 Michigan, yourself, or Ohio State, would you feel 3 that you should be tormented in the news media 4 and by your -- 5 A. I don't have any, any control over 6 the news media. I think that's well 7 demonstrated. 8 Q. But wouldn't it be nice if your

9 employer supported you? 10 A. We weren't his employer.

11 Q. Well, you had been for a number of

12 years.

13 A. And I've stated to him and publicly

14 that we were very supportive. He chose to go to

15 the University of Michigan, and all we asked was

16 that he uphold his agreement that he made with

17 West Virginia University. That was as simply as 18 it could be put, and that is what we said, and 19 that's what I believe. 20 Q. Since we're talking about employment, 21 what are you going to do after September 1 at the 22 University? 23 MR. FLAHERTY: Objection. 24 What's the relevance of that?

Page 244 1 There's zero relevance in that. 2 You don't have to answer that 3 question. 4 MR. ROBON: The relevance is 5 I need to know where he's going to be employed. 6 MR. FLAHERTY: You don't need 7 to know that. 8 MR. McGINLEY: Are you

9 instructing him not answer? 10 MR. FLAHERTY: Yes.

11 MR. McGINLEY: On what basis?

12 MR. FLAHERTY: Because it has 13 no relevance to this lawsuit.

14 MR. McGINLEY: Relevance is

15 not -- again, it's not --

16 MR. FLAHERTY: Well, how does 17 that lead to discovery of admissible evidence? 18 MR. McGINLEY: This is going 19 down in time. He can ask the question. You 20 guys -- 21 MR. FLAHERTY: And I can -- 22 MR. McGINLEY: I had to 23 listen to 11 hours of Bob questioning -- 24 MR. FLAHERTY: I'm not going

Page 245 1 to debate it with you, Sean. 2 MR. McGINLEY: Well, if 3 you're instructing him not to answer, that's 4 fine. 5 MR. FLAHERTY: I'm 6 instructing you don't have to answer the 7 question, that's your choice. 8 THE WITNESS: I understand.

9 A. I don't know what my plans will be, 10 as related to the University after September 1.

11 But my job right now is to be president until

12 September 1, and I will work as president right

13 up until that day.

14 BY MR. ROBON:

15 Q. You've not made an arrangement with

16 the Board of Governors to take another position

17 at the University? 18 A. I have not made any arrangements 19 other than to work in the service as president 20 until September 1. 21 Q. Okay. 22 MR. ROBON: Now is a good 23 time for a break, for a new subject. 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time

Page 246 1 is 2:52 p.m., we're going off the record. 2 * * * 3 (Brief break) 4 * * * 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 6 3:17 p.m., we are back on the record. 7 BY MR. ROBON: 8 Q. Mr. Garrison, as this lawsuit

9 progresses, after September 1, are you still 10 going to be assigned to be the representative for 11 the University?

12 A. I'm sure I will be, and I will

13 certainly make myself available.

14 Q. Who will be the person at the

15 mediation, that the court ordered to be completed 16 by August 1, representing the University?

17 MR. WAKEFIELD: Counsel will 18 make that determination. 19 20 BY MR. ROBON: 21 Q. Who would have authority within the 22 administration or the Board of Governors to be at 23 the mediation? 24 A. I think I certainly have authority,

Page 247 1 through the Board, the Board would have authority 2 as well. But we rely upon counsel. 3 Q. I understand that. 4 Finishing up on that meeting on 5 December 15, was it, you said the coach was 6 distraught, you said he put his hands in his face 7 a couple times. 8 A. Yes, sir.

9 Q. Is that just an expression, some 10 people to do that?

11 A. No, it was an actual bodily action.

12 Q. He didn't cry or anything like that. 13 A. He was distraught, I'm not saying

14 that was, he wasn't crying, but he was very

15 distraught and very distracted and seemed very

16 upset.

17 Q. Did you, what did you figure the odds 18 were that he would stay, on that evening? 19 A. I wasn't sure. I, again, I tried to 20 be very reasonable about the value that I saw for 21 Mr. Rodriguez in coaching at his alma mater, and 22 talked to him about how I saw it. Understanding 23 that, as a man with a family and a career, that 24 he had to make the decision himself.

Page 248 1 But I was, I wasn't very hopeful, 2 based upon what he said to me. I was very 3 surprised that he said that, you know, he didn't 4 share my sentiments about valuing the opportunity 5 to coach here. 6 That was the first time I ever heard 7 anything like that from Mr. Rodriguez. 8 Q. And was that because of the Pitt loss

9 and the reaction to the fans? 10 A. I don't know what that was, I don't

11 know why it was. He was angry enough to say it

12 wasn't that special, and he used an expletive

13 before "special," to be in West Virginia.

14 And I know he was distraught, because 15 I know Mr. Rodriguez and I know that he put value 16 on that.

17 Q. Did, you talked about giving him a 18 hug. You're a big man, correct? 19 A. Pardon me? 20 Q. You're a big man. 21 A. I suppose that's one way to describe 22 it. 23 Q. Well, you're not, you're not a 24 college, a little professor type.

Page 249 1 A. I am -- 2 Q. I mean that in a complimentary sense. 3 A. Yeah, I don't know exactly how to 4 answer that. But I can hold my own, I feel 5 comfortable, and I often greet people with a 6 handshake and/or a hug, and often would greet 7 Coach with a handshake or a hug. 8 Q. But you didn't give a hug on the 15th

9 of December of '07, correct? 10 A. I don't know if I did or not. It

11 wouldn't have been unusual to do that. For

12 instance, going to the locker room after, after

13 the Connecticut game, I know that I embraced

14 Mr. Rodriguez, was happy for him. I wanted to do 15 that after the Pitt game, I was unable to see

16 him, not permitted to see him. When I went to

17 the locker room, he was not there, he was in his 18 office. But I did convey that to people, that I 19 wanted to see him. 20 Q. Are you the youngest president in 21 West Virginia's history? 22 A. I am not. 23 Q. You're the second youngest? 24 A. I am not.

Page 250 1 Q. Back 100 years ago, people died 2 earlier so they made presidency earlier? 3 MR. FLAHERTY: Is that a 4 question? 5 BY MR. ROBON: 6 Q. Is that the history? 7 A. There's a lot of history in the 8 140 years of WVU. E. Gordon Gee was younger than

9 I was when he assumed the presidency in 1981, and 10 there are others who were younger than he was

11 when they assumed the presidency.

12 * * *

13 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition

14 Exhibit OO was marked for purposes of

15 identification.)

16 * * *

17 BY MR. ROBON: 18 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've 19 marked as Exhibit OO. 20 MR. WAKEFIELD: Triple O? 21 MR. ROBON: No, this is 22 double O. 23 BY MR. ROBON: 24 Q. This is another e-mail from Wilcox,

Page 251 1 dated December 13 -- which I forgot to hand you 2 before -- showing communications, trying to keep 3 the doors of communications open between the 4 financial advisors of the coach and yourself, 5 correct? 6 A. It is an e-mail exchange, and I am 7 copied on part of it, between Craig Walker and 8 Mike Wilcox, that goes into a great deal of

9 detail from Craig, as related to meetings and 10 discussions we had been having with

11 Mr. Rodriguez.

12 Q. Now, you mentioned that in the

13 August 24, 2007, meeting that you were, with

14 regard to buyouts, thinking of some alternative

15 way, to put something in a contract rather than a 16 buyout.

17 A. Yeah, what I actually stated was that 18 I, when discussing liquidated damages clauses 19 with Mr. Rodriguez, I indicated that I was very 20 open to future contracts, using alternate methods 21 versus a liquidated damages clause. 22 Q. And what would those alternate 23 methods be that you were thinking of? 24 A. Well, I thought we could explore

Page 252 1 opportunities to perhaps have payments each year 2 that did not vest until the end of a certain 3 period of time, and that sort of thing. But, 4 really, was not the expert along those lines. 5 But because Mr. Rodriguez had indicated a desire 6 to look at other opportunities, in terms of 7 nonliquidated damages clauses, I was open to 8 asking folks to take a look at that, or try to

9 think of some things when the time came for a new 10 contract.

11 Q. As part of your legal practice

12 working with a big firm and the Spilman firm, you 13 learned that most executive contracts have a

14 vesting clause, that there's incentives for the

15 person to stay, they get so many shares of stock

16 but they have to stay for three years after the

17 stock is earned by them, for example. 18 A. I didn't say, I have never testified 19 to that at all. 20 Q. No, not testified. But you saw those 21 things as a lawyer; did you not? 22 A. I am aware that contracts like that 23 do, in fact, exist. 24 Q. Right.

Page 253 1 And it's commonplace, correct? 2 A. I would not call it commonplace. 3 Q. Well, would you agree with me that 4 it's much more common than liquidated damages in 5 an employment contract? 6 A. I don't know that to be the case, I 7 would not agree with you. 8 Q. But you're not an expert.

9 A. I'm not an expert. 10 Q. Other than this case and

11 Coach Huggins, have you ever seen a liquidated

12 damages clause?

13 A. I think I testified earlier, I'm sure 14 I've seen them, I don't recall specifically

15 seeing them and, frankly, didn't work directly on 16 a number of them in my practice.

17 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've 18 marked as Exhibit BB, this was put together by 19 Mike Parsons. 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. I just want to know if you've ever 22 seen it. 23 A. I believe so, I'm aware of it. 24 Q. Did you ever study it?

Page 254 1 A. Not in any great detail. 2 Q. When did you first see it? 3 A. I don't recall when I first saw it, 4 but I'm aware of it. 5 Q. Would it have been 2007 or 2008? 6 A. I don't recall. I'm sorry. 7 Q. Did you issue any memoranda with 8 regard to it, whether it's accurate, inaccurate,

9 whether it should be modified? 10 A. No.

11 Q. Nothing?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Did you turn it over to Craig Walker?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Did you turn it over to Alex Macia?

16 A. No, I didn't turn it over to anybody, 17 it has never been in my possession. 18 Q. You just -- did Mr. Parsons show it 19 to you? 20 A. I can't recall. I know that I've 21 seen it and have heard about it, and have, at 22 least had it described to me. I don't recall, as 23 I stated earlier. 24 Q. So is it fair to say you haven't had

Page 255 1 it more than five minutes in your possession? 2 A. I don't know if that's fair to say. 3 But I'm aware of its existence and what it says 4 and why it was put together. 5 Q. Do you know when it was put together? 6 A. I do not. 7 Q. Was Rich Rodriguez's contract the 8 first contract that you'd seen at West Virginia

9 University that had deferred compensation in it? 10 A. I don't know if that's the case or

11 not, I just don't, I don't recall. I didn't, I

12 didn't work -- let me make this perfectly clear,

13 I did not work on the details of Mr. Rodriguez's

14 contract, we had counsel working directly on the

15 contract.

16 Q. Did you actually read the contract

17 before it was signed? 18 A. I remember taking a look at it. 19 Q. My question was: Did you read it? 20 A. I remember taking a look at it. I 21 looked over it, I don't know if I read it in 22 detail, and I asked counsel, working directly on 23 it, if he was comfortable with it, and the answer 24 was yes.

Page 256 1 Q. Were you involved at all in the John 2 Beline buyout? 3 A. No, I was not. 4 Q. Did you read about it after it was 5 completed? 6 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and 7 answered. 8 A. I may have read about it in the

9 media, that's my involvement with it. 10 BY MR. ROBON:

11 Q. But you didn't go back and look at

12 the document.

13 A. No, no.

14 Q. When you met with the coach in July,

15 after the blessing of the football field, did you 16 go down to the waterfront for dinner with

17 everybody? 18 A. After that meeting? 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. No, I did not. 21 Q. Do you know if Craig Walker or Ed 22 Pastilong went along? 23 A. I do not. 24 Q. Are you the one who, after the

Page 257 1 blessing on the field, asked the coach to, "Let's 2 discuss your contract"? 3 A. I do not believe that I was the one. 4 I was asked to sit and talk about things. I 5 didn't set up the meeting. I think it may have 6 been Craig. 7 Q. Craig Walker? 8 A. I think. I'm not sure, I just know

9 there was, there was an opportunity to have 10 discussion, and everyone was there.

11 Q. And at that meeting, you were the

12 only one there with a law degree, right; as far

13 as you know?

14 A. As far as I know, there were other

15 individuals in and out of there that appeared to

16 be with Mr. Wilcox, who, to me, were part of a

17 legal team or attorneys. I don't know who they 18 were. I met them very briefly, and they were in 19 some of the meeting and not in some of the 20 meeting. 21 Q. They didn't give you any cards that 22 showed you they were attorneys, did they? 23 A. They said, or Mr. Wilcox said they 24 were attorneys. I don't know who they were, they

Page 258 1 were in there briefly. 2 Q. Well, that could have been Bennett 3 Speyer, the deferred compensation lawyer? 4 A. It could have been. 5 Q. But certainly there were no attorneys 6 present on the August 24 date, other than 7 yourself, correct? 8 A. Insofar as Mr. Wilcox or Mr. Brown

9 are not attorneys, that's correct. 10 Q. How many times do you believe that

11 Coach Rodriguez indicated to you that he thought

12 the $4 million liquidated damage provision was

13 not fair to him?

14 A. I don't recall how many times he

15 would have said that, or if he did say that. He

16 did ask me if I believed it was fair, along with

17 the contract. And I don't remember the frequency 18 of those discussions. 19 Q. But you did say you thought it was 20 fair. 21 A. I thought it was fair for the time, I 22 did, I did feel it was fair, I did say that. 23 Q. And you meant fair for him. 24 A. I meant fair based upon all factors

Page 259 1 that would be considered in relation to the 2 contract, and both parties who agreed to it in 3 December of 2006. 4 Q. And we talked earlier about the 5 meeting on December 8, where he said he was 6 looking for more money for the assistant football 7 coaches, correct? 8 A. Well, he mentioned that during the

9 that discussion. 10 Q. That was a carryover from the

11 August 24, 2007, discussion; was it not?

12 A. Not really. That had been something

13 that we had talked about before, there was never

14 any clarity as to what the numbers were, and I

15 had asked for numbers. And I don't, I don't know 16 if someone was supposed to get us those numbers

17 or not. Mr. Rodriguez certainly, I didn't feel 18 like he was responsible for getting us the 19 numbers, but somebody should have provided the 20 numbers. 21 Q. Wasn't there a discussion between the 22 sum of 200,000 or 250,000, and then the question 23 came up as to whether or not it could be obtained 24 from another source, like a sponsor?

Page 260 1 A. At what time? I don't remember -- 2 Q. Back in August 24 of '07. 3 A. I don't recall that. I do recall, as 4 I think I stated earlier, during the discussions 5 related to the Web site, that there was some 6 discussion about perhaps, if there was a Web 7 site, some of those proceeds could be used for 8 assistant coaches, but I don't recall anything

9 beyond that. 10 Q. Wasn't there also discussions that

11 there could be signs or advertising in the

12 stadium to help pay for the assistant coaches?

13 A. Mr. Rodriguez had talked about that

14 before, and that was something that we would, I

15 was committed to asking the athletic department

16 to look into. And there was a lot of discussion

17 about the format in the stadium and that sort of 18 thing. 19 Q. Isn't it true that Ed Pastilong, the 20 director of athletics, refused to have signage in 21 the stadium, and that was an impasse? 22 A. I don't, he never refused that 23 directly to me. I think he, he and Mr. Rodriguez 24 appeared to share different opinions on whether

Page 261 1 or not there should be signage in the stadium, to 2 that extent, and wanted them to try and work that 3 out. 4 Q. Didn't the coach, in the summer, 5 indicate that he would like some recognition for 6 the team in the stadium, you know, like they do 7 the basketball arenas, where they say "Big League 8 Champions" or "Big East Champions," the year? He

9 was looking for something in the football field 10 in that regard too; was he not?

11 A. I'm sure he might have mentioned it,

12 I just don't recall. I don't, I'm not denying

13 that. But there were a lot of discussions about

14 a lot of things, he may have had that discussion

15 with the director.

16 Q. Do you know who Ike Morris is?

17 A. I know Mr. Morris, yes, sir. 18 Q. Didn't Ike Morris have a box in the 19 end zone, in the football stadium? 20 A. I don't know if it's his box, but I 21 know that I've seen him there before. 22 Q. Didn't he have a sign made that says, 23 quote, "You're in Mountaineer Country," and Russ 24 Sharp and Mike Parsons made him take it down?

Page 262 1 A. I don't know. I really don't. 2 Q. That wouldn't surprise you, though, 3 would it? 4 A. I can't say whether it would or would 5 not, I just, I really don't know whether that's 6 true or not. 7 Q. And it is true that you were getting 8 pressure from the Board, which we saw an e-mail

9 on, about getting the contract signed with Coach? 10 A. I was getting inquiries from the

11 Board.

12 Q. And you were getting pressure from

13 the governor, too, or inquiries.

14 A. No. I did not state that, that I was 15 getting inquiries or pressure.

16 Q. I know you didn't state it, but I'm

17 suggesting that that did happen. 18 MR. FLAHERTY: No, you're 19 saying that happened. 20 A. You're saying it, and I'm answering 21 that it did not happen. 22 BY MR. ROBON: 23 Q. Did not happen, okay. 24 Did the coach ask you if you were

Page 263 1 pressuring Bobby Huggins to come to an agreement, 2 the way you were pressuring him? 3 A. He may have said that to me. If he 4 did, I don't recall it specifically, but he could 5 have. 6 Q. I don't know if we covered this or 7 not, at that August 24 meeting, Pastilong was not 8 there, I know that. Was he asked not to be there

9 by you or Craig Walker? I covered that. 10 A. We did not ask him not to be there.

11 Q. Did he know of the meeting?

12 A. I'm sure he knew of the meeting, I

13 can't recall if I told him. If I did not, I'm

14 sure Craig mentioned it to him.

15 Q. Did you indicate to the coach that if 16 he signed the contract extension, the addendum,

17 it would be a personal favor to you? 18 A. I don't recall saying it would be a 19 personal favor. I felt that it was beyond time 20 to resolve this matter, and I didn't see it as a 21 favor in any way, I saw it -- 22 Q. You don't deny that you may have said 23 that. 24 A. No, I said I didn't say, use that

Page 264 1 language, "personal favor." And I didn't see it 2 that way, I saw it as something that had been 3 agreed to in December of '06, and it simply 4 needed to be memorialized. 5 Q. What's the 1100 Club? 6 A. To the best of my knowledge, it is a, 7 it is a club of boosters, that is required, your 8 admission into the club, if you will, is to

9 donate $1,100 and -- 10 Q. Per year or total?

11 A. I believe it's per year. I'm sorry,

12 I don't know the exacts on that. But that it is

13 something that resides in the Mountaineer

14 Athletic Club.

15 Q. It's like a sub of the Mountaineer

16 Athletic Club?

17 A. It's in there, I don't know what its 18 corporate structure is or its business structure 19 is. 20 Q. Were you aware that Coach Rodriguez 21 started the 1100 Club? 22 A. I was not, originally, but he 23 mentioned that to me at some point, during one of 24 our discussions.

Page 265 1 Q. Did that happen to come up on the 2 night of December 15? 3 A. Not that I recall. 4 Q. Isn't it true that the money that was 5 raised in the 1100 Club was allocated for a 6 specific football purpose, and the moneys were 7 taken out and used for a different purpose, and 8 he was upset about that?

9 A. He had mentioned being upset about 10 that, and I don't know that that was the case or

11 not. We asked that it be looked at, and I

12 believe Craig asked the athletic department to

13 take a look at that.

14 Q. But you never got an answer, did you?

15 A. I'm not sure if we did or not.

16 Q. And you never followed up on it,

17 correct? 18 A. I don't know if Craig did or not. 19 But, again, it was something that resided in the 20 athletic department and the Foundation, and we 21 imagined that they would take a look at it. 22 Q. Did you ever order the athletic 23 department to stop taking money out of the 24 1100 Club?

Page 266 1 A. No, and I would not order the 2 athletic department to stop taking money out of 3 the Mountaineer Athletic Club. 4 Q. Was all the money that was taken out 5 by the athletic department, out of the 1100 Club, 6 replaced by December 15 of 2007? 7 A. I already testified that -- 8 Q. You don't know.

9 A. -- I don't know. 10 Q. When did you first hear about the

11 claim of Calvin Magee, that he was told he would

12 never be the head coach at West Virginia

13 University because of his skin color?

14 A. I heard about it in the media. I

15 don't know exactly the date.

16 Q. Did you feel that an investigation

17 was necessary with that kind of comment? 18 A. I did. 19 Q. Did you implement one? 20 A. Yes, I did. 21 Q. And through whom? 22 A. Through our social justice office, 23 Jennifer McIntosh. 24 Q. What did you instruct her to do?

Page 267 1 A. I instructed her to investigate this 2 claim that had been made. The only thing I knew 3 about it is that it had been made through the 4 media, and I asked her to check that out. 5 Q. The source. 6 A. Well, to check out the source and 7 whether or not this claim was actually made. And 8 if it had been made, I wanted to know about it

9 and I wanted to take action on it. 10 Q. And was there a conclusion to her

11 investigation?

12 A. To my knowledge, her investigation is 13 still ongoing, and she's had a number of

14 discussions, and I'm fully supportive of her

15 investigation and it being concluded.

16 Q. Wasn't Larry Aschebrook the person

17 who allegedly indicated that, even though it may 18 not have been a derogatory attempt on his part? 19 A. I have, I have read that. Yes, I 20 have read that. 21 Q. And was it a surprise to you that 22 Larry Aschebrook left the University or the 23 Foundation and has gone to Arizona, Arizona 24 State?

Page 268 1 A. I wouldn't say it was a surprise. 2 Q. Was it suggested that he wore out his 3 welcome here at West Virginia University? 4 A. Not that I know of. It certainly 5 wasn't by me. 6 Q. Did you ever speak to him about this? 7 A. About what? 8 Q. About the investigation.

9 A. No, I did not. 10 Q. Did you know if your in-house counsel 11 or Craig Walker did?

12 A. I don't know if they did or not. I

13 know that I, as stated earlier, instructed

14 Jennifer McIntosh to do the investigation, and I

15 am sure that she spoke with him at some point.

16 Q. Was there ever an African-American

17 interviewed for either a head coaching position 18 in basketball or football here at West Virginia 19 University, to your knowledge? 20 A. I have not been involved with any 21 basketball interviews since I have been 22 president, so I cannot answer that. 23 Q. What about football? 24 A. Yes.

Page 269 1 Q. And who was that? 2 A. I am not at liberty to go into those 3 details. We committed to the individuals that we 4 would not reveal their names. 5 Q. Is there an assistant coach 6 someplace? 7 A. Pardon me? 8 Q. Is the person an assistant coach?

9 A. One of the people was an assistant 10 coach.

11 Q. And was it to replace Rich Rodriguez?

12 A. That's correct.

13 Q. Did that person make it to the final

14 three selectees?

15 A. I don't agree with your assertion

16 that there were a final three selectees.

17 Q. Well, that's what was testified to 18 yesterday. 19 A. I don't know that that was the case. 20 Q. Well, your own chief of staff told me 21 that. 22 A. Okay, maybe there were, but -- 23 Q. You didn't know about it? 24 A. No, I didn't, I didn't know if there

Page 270 1 were three or four or five. I know that they 2 were narrowed down. 3 I don't deny it if Craig said it, I 4 believe it. 5 Q. Is it fair to say that Calvin Magee, 6 as the offensive coordinator, structured the 7 offense for the Fiesta Bowl game? 8 A. I don't know that. I'm a pretty good

9 fan, I'm a pretty bad coach. 10 Q. You didn't play football when you

11 were younger?

12 A. No, I played basketball.

13 Whoever structured it did a good job, 14 however.

15 Q. Isn't it true that after the game at

16 the Fiesta Bowl, that all the assistant coaches

17 were asked to stay and celebrate, other than 18 Calvin Magee? 19 A. By me? 20 Q. By the administration. 21 A. Define "the administration." 22 Q. You, Craig Walker. 23 A. It certainly was never by me, ever. 24 Q. You don't know if Ed Pastilong did

Page 271 1 that or Craig Walker? 2 A. I don't know that they did that. I 3 would be shocked if they did that. 4 Q. Rich has never been called a racist, 5 correct? 6 A. Pardon me? 7 Q. Rich Rodriguez. 8 A. Ask your question again.

9 Q. He's never been called a racist, 10 correct?

11 A. By whom? By me?

12 Q. By anybody.

13 A. I can't speak for anybody. I

14 certainly have never referred to him in that way.

15 Q. Did Aschebrook tell you that a Board

16 member wanted him terminated?

17 A. No. 18 Q. Did you speak to him about it, or did 19 he just leave? 20 A. I did not speak to him about his 21 departure. 22 Q. Did you have a, what they call a 23 postdeparture interview with the employees? Is 24 that a policy they have here at West Virginia?

Page 272 1 A. It may be a policy in the department, 2 it's certainly not one that the university 3 president sits in on. 4 Q. So you don't know if anybody said 5 that. 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. Do you know that the affidavit that 8 he provided to the University was never to be

9 made public? 10 A. I don't know that.

11 Q. Do you know who showed the affidavit

12 to the media?

13 A. I do not.

14 Q. Did you think that it was improper to 15 show it to the media when it was an internal

16 investigation within the University?

17 A. I don't know whether or not it had 18 been agreed to that it wouldn't be shown or not 19 shown or what it was as part of the 20 investigation. I found out about it and read 21 about it in the media. 22 Q. How often, I think you said this 23 three or four times already, that you found out 24 about things through the media --

Page 273 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. -- as opposed to private documents or 3 people in your own administration telling you 4 things. 5 A. I think I started by talking about 6 Mr. Rodriguez's discussions with the University 7 of Michigan, I found out about those, in the 8 media; I found out that he was leaving, in the

9 media; I found out that a couple of our assistant 10 coaches were joining him, in the media. Those

11 are some things I found out about in the media.

12 Q. And we talked about the articles

13 here, you just found out by reading them in the

14 media.

15 A. I did. Those MSN articles, I've

16 already stated I'm not a frequent reader of MSN.

17 Q. Did you feel that by keeping Bill 18 Stewart, that most of the coaches would have 19 stayed? 20 A. It was a consideration, and we were 21 pleased that Coach Stewart was very interested in 22 the job. 23 Q. How do you feel about the media 24 today?

Page 274 1 A. I don't really have any feelings 2 about the media today. I don't give it a lot of 3 thought. 4 Q. Well, one of your board members 5 testified two days ago, I think he said the mob 6 mentality. 7 MR. FLAHERTY: Is that a 8 question?

9 BY MR. ROBON: 10 Q. Do you have a similar feeling?

11 A. I just testified, I don't really have 12 any feelings about the media, don't give it much

13 thought.

14 Q. Did you tell Rich Rodriguez on

15 December 15 of '07, after he told you he was

16 considering the Michigan job, that you would

17 enforce the $4 million liquidated damages penalty 18 clause? 19 A. I don't recall saying that 20 specifically, no. 21 Q. Did you or do you consider Michigan a 22 premier top-tier school? 23 A. It's certainly got a wonderful 24 history, and I consider it every bit as good as

Page 275 1 West Virginia University, but no better. 2 Q. Can you, you would agree with me that 3 when Rich walked into the meeting on August 24 of 4 '07, that meeting that lasted, you said, 5 one-and-a-half to two hours, that he had made up 6 his mind at the beginning that he wasn't going to 7 sign the contract extension because of the 8 liquidated damages provision, correct? Did you

9 believe that? 10 A. I didn't believe that at all, I

11 wouldn't agree with you.

12 Q. Well, if you didn't believe that,

13 why -- well, let me ask this question: If we

14 divided up the two hours, minimum, that was at

15 that meeting, how long would you say that you

16 spoke on all the subjects that were being

17 discussed? 18 A. I don't have any recollection of how 19 long each individual spoke. 20 Q. Did you tape-record what you said? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do you normally tape-record what you 23 say? 24 A. No, I don't.

Page 276 1 Q. Was there a lot of 2 question-and-answer dialogue going on? 3 A. Not necessarily. There was a lot of, 4 a lot of restating of Mr. and Mrs. Rodriguez's 5 desire that they know they're valued at the 6 University; a lot of restating, by me, that I did 7 value them at the University; a lot of supportive 8 statements by me and by Craig.

9 And, again, Mr. Rodriguez asked his 10 advisors and his wife whether or not he should

11 sign the contract, and they all indicated in the

12 positive.

13 Q. Didn't you indicate that just before

14 he signed it, you said that if a person does not

15 want to be at West Virginia, then you would want

16 them to be able to leave?

17 A. I don't know if I said that or not, 18 but I -- 19 Q. But you don't deny it? 20 A. I'd like to finish. 21 I certainly feel that way, that if a 22 person does not want to be at West Virginia 23 University, that they should be permitted to 24 leave when they don't want to be here any longer.

Page 277 1 Q. And didn't you say right after that, 2 "You know, Rich, if you decide to leave, we would 3 get the attorneys together and sit down and split 4 it down the middle"? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Nothing similar to that? 7 A. I don't recall anything similar to 8 that. I had talked about, again, what we had

9 done already, under the liquidated damages 10 provision, by reducing it after a year. I talked 11 about what we had done in extending its payback,

12 if it should be activated. And, again, I would

13 have been quite surprised if I was asked that

14 question, as to what would happen in a year,

15 because I had been told repeatedly that

16 Mr. Rodriguez wanted to be at West Virginia

17 University. And I believed him. 18 Q. Before Rich came over to your house 19 on December 15, you knew he was coming for about 20 an hour before he came, correct? 21 A. I don't know if it was an hour. I 22 didn't find out all that long before he came. 23 Q. Did you make any calls to the Board 24 of Governors, the governor?

Page 278 1 A. I made no calls to the governor, I 2 don't believe I made any calls to the board 3 members. I did receive a call from Craig, and I 4 may have received a phone call from Dave Alvarez, 5 I remember at some point that, receiving a phone 6 call from Dave Alvarez. 7 Q. Did the governor, in passing, 8 indicate to you that he never thought Rich would

9 leave? 10 A. I don't recall the governor ever

11 saying that to me.

12 Q. There was a lot of coaching turnover

13 in the last two or three years at the University, 14 correct?

15 A. I don't know if I'd describe it as a

16 lot. We've had some coaching turnover.

17 Q. The boosters, I understand, were 18 somewhat upset about that. 19 MR. FLAHERTY: Is that a 20 question? 21 MR. ROBON: Yes. 22 BY MR. ROBON: 23 Q. Is that true? 24 A. I don't know if they were or not, I

Page 279 1 don't recall any booster specifically saying they 2 were upset. But I read about that -- again, I 3 have been here since July 1, and we've had one 4 coaching departure. 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Five 6 minutes. 7 BY MR. ROBON: 8 Q. Was there any effort to keep Whit

9 Babcock here? 10 A. By me?

11 Q. By you.

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Did you offer him a raise?

14 A. I asked him specifically to stay. I

15 was not even president at that point, I was

16 president-elect, and it was, I believe it was

17 July, it might have been before July, quite 18 frankly, I can't remember the day he was leaving. 19 I wanted Whit to stay. I knew Whit, I valued the 20 work that Whit did for the University and the 21 department, and I liked Whit and I thought he was 22 committed to the University. 23 He indicated that he, he wanted to 24 take this opportunity. And, again, I respected

Page 280 1 that, but told him, you know, never, never to 2 close the door, and I wanted him to stay. 3 Q. Did he indicate to you that he felt 4 the athletic department just didn't keep pace 5 with other schools? 6 A. He indicated that he would like to 7 see things move quicker in the MAC, in relation 8 to the athletic department. And I asked him to

9 be patient, allow me to assume office, I hadn't 10 done that yet, and that I looked forward to

11 working together with him, with the department

12 and with the coaches, to move forward.

13 Q. Did Rita Rodriguez indicate to you

14 that Coach Rick Trickett went to Florida State,

15 where the salary was 100,000 more than what he

16 was getting here?

17 A. I don't recall Mrs. Rodriguez saying 18 that to me about Coach Trickett. I have heard 19 that about Coach Trickett, but I don't recall it 20 coming from Mrs. Rodriguez. And I don't know 21 that that is, in fact, the case. 22 Q. Did you ever have someone investigate 23 it? 24 A. No, I did not.

Page 281 1 Q. So you just sloughed it off. 2 A. I just mentioned that I did not know 3 whether that was the case or not. 4 Q. Did you think that was important to 5 find out why your coaches were leaving? 6 A. Coach Trickett left before I arrived 7 at the University. 8 Q. I understand. But as a new

9 administrator, a new head of the guard, so to 10 speak, didn't you feel that, you know, "I want to 11 know why these people are doing what they're

12 doing"?

13 A. You know, believe it or not, I was

14 interested in making athletics as big a priority

15 as it should be, but I had one or two other

16 issues as a new president, as well, that I had to 17 deal with. 18 Q. Well, is it fair to say that the 19 administration, when you took over, wasn't 20 necessarily in the best operating condition, and 21 that you had lots of problems to deal with? 22 A. I, I have had a number of things to 23 work on since I have taken over as president, and 24 some, I knew about, others, I did not. But we

Page 282 1 have taken on all those challenges as best we 2 could. 3 Q. And there were more challenges than 4 you anticipated. 5 A. There were more challenges than were 6 described to me. 7 Q. Right. 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Two

9 minutes. 10 BY MR. ROBON:

11 Q. Isn't it true that not a single

12 assistant coach was paid close to $200,000, under 13 the Rodriguez reign, at the football program?

14 A. I don't know those numbers.

15 MR. ROBON: Go ahead, change

16 tapes.

17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 18 is 3:59 p.m., we're going off the record. This 19 concludes tape five. 20 * * * 21 (Brief break) 22 * * * 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 24 is 4:08 p.m., we are back on the record. This

Page 283 1 begins tape six. 2 BY MR. ROBON: 3 Q. Mr. Garrison, can you explain to me, 4 we've seen comments from other coaches that have 5 left West Virginia University and from Rich 6 Rodriguez that things move very slowly within the 7 athletic department. Can you explain to me why 8 you would have approved the extension of

9 Director Ed Pastilong's contract. 10 MR. FLAHERTY: Are you going

11 to give him a reference to the comments you're

12 referring to?

13 BY MR. ROBON:

14 Q. The comments, for example, of Whit

15 Babcock leaving, and Aschebrook leaving, and the

16 number of coaches that have left the University,

17 and, you know, the failure to implement 18 revenue-increasing signs in the stadium, the 19 stymieing of the items that Rich Rodriguez 20 wanted. 21 A. Those were your words, not mine. 22 MR. R.P. FITZSIMMONS: Let me 23 place an objection. 24 You said that they, said that things

Page 284 1 were delayed, all those coaches had said that. 2 And Mr. Flaherty asked to you cite, actually, all 3 these coaches making those statements. 4 MR. FLAHERTY: We haven't 5 heard one so far. 6 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: As 7 opposed to your client. 8 Are you representing, you made a

9 representation, so I'd like to -- you're saying 10 all these coaches say that things take so long

11 here.

12 MR. ROBON: Well, what I'm

13 saying is these coaches are leaving, obviously,

14 for a reason.

15 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: No,

16 no, no. You made a representation, on the

17 record -- 18 MR. ROBON: I'll rephrase it. 19 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: You 20 made a representation on the record, and I ask 21 you to support that representation. 22 MR. ROBON: I'm rephrasing 23 the question. 24 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS:

Page 285 1 Withdraw the question. 2 BY MR. ROBON: 3 Q. I'm suggesting to you that Whit 4 Babcock and certain other coaches left for an 5 increase in money. Do you agree with that? 6 A. Whit left because he said he wanted 7 to pursue a better opportunity, that's what he 8 told me.

9 Q. And -- 10 A. And advance his career.

11 Q. And you know there's no advertising

12 in the stadium, and there were ways given by Mike 13 Brown to Craig Walker for ways to increase

14 revenue in the football program. And none of

15 those items or suggestions have been implemented.

16 A. I, as stated earlier, if Mr. Brown

17 did give those thoughts to Craig Walker, I'm sure 18 that he passed them along. But we, we have an 19 athletic department, I don't really need to rely 20 upon Mr. Brown for those suggestions. 21 Q. I understand your feeling on that, 22 but my question is: If there appears to be 23 turnover in the coaching part of the athletic 24 program, why would you extend the contract for

Page 286 1 the athletic director? 2 A. Well, first of all, his contract was 3 not extended, it similarly had added to it some 4 years of emeritus service. It was, as it is 5 when, as it was when I came in, it runs until 6 2010, and that's exactly what it runs until now, 7 as athletic director. And beyond that, 8 Mr. Pastilong will be director emeritus.

9 Q. I see. 10 Was it that the intention that

11 eventually Craig Walker would step into his shoes 12 as athletic director?

13 A. There has been no determination made

14 at all about that.

15 Q. Had you thought about that?

16 A. I had not thought about that.

17 Q. Do you think that would be a good 18 idea? 19 A. I think Craig would be good at 20 whatever he does, he has a lot of experience from 21 his days in the athletic department, and I think 22 he would be very skilled at that. But I've 23 never, I've never contemplated that. 24 Q. Did you indicate to the media that

Page 287 1 when Bill Stewart was hired, we now have a coach 2 who appreciates the opportunity to be a coach at 3 West Virginia University? 4 A. It's the same answer that I gave you 5 when you asked it earlier. Yes. 6 Q. And is it true that that was a 7 reference that Coach Rodriguez didn't appreciate 8 the opportunity?

9 A. I wasn't thinking of Coach Rodriguez 10 when I said it, I was thinking of Coach Stewart,

11 to congratulate Coach Stewart, who appreciated

12 the opportunity. He said it to me two or three

13 times, and that's how he felt about it, I knew

14 that's how he felt about it.

15 Q. When you heard about the Calvin Magee 16 incident --

17 MR. FLAHERTY: Alleged 18 incident. 19 20 BY MR. ROBON: 21 Q. Alleged incident. Did you know it 22 originated through Larry Aschebrook? 23 A. I didn't know if it was true or let 24 alone where it, where it may have originated

Page 288 1 from. 2 Q. Did you understand that Calvin Magee 3 thought Larry was simply being a friend and 4 giving his opinion? 5 A. I didn't know anything about Larry's 6 alleged involvement in this matter, so I couldn't 7 know anything about what you just asked. 8 Q. Was there a severance package with

9 Aschebrook? 10 A. I don't know.

11 Q. Of any kind?

12 A. I don't know.

13 Q. Who would know that?

14 A. I don't know. I would imagine

15 someone in the athletic department might know

16 that, or at the Foundation.

17 Q. Would you have suggested if Calvin 18 was interested, to interview him as the head 19 coach? 20 A. I would have been pleased if Calvin 21 were interested, for the athletic director to 22 interview him to be the head coach. 23 Q. Did, after he orchestrated the win at 24 the Fiesta Bowl -- you agree that he did that?

Page 289 1 A. I already answered that question. 2 Q. Did someone think about interviewing 3 him for the head coach position? 4 A. I don't know what people thought 5 about. I know that he had already stated his 6 intention to coach at the University of Michigan 7 with Mr. Rodriguez, and we understood that. 8 Q. Well, isn't it obvious that if he was

9 interviewing for the head coaching position, it 10 would be, obviously, a better job than being an

11 assistant, correct?

12 A. I don't know how he would view that. 13 I would imagine that would be the case, but he

14 had stated, and had been announced on Monday,

15 December 16, as one of the assistants that would

16 be going to Michigan with Mr. Rodriguez. I saw

17 that on TV as well. 18 Q. Did you ever congratulate Calvin on 19 the win in the Fiesta Bowl? 20 A. I congratulated everyone on the win, 21 I congratulated all the assistants, all the 22 players, anyone close to the team. I 23 congratulated him and his family the next day on 24 the flight back, I sat right beside them on the

Page 290 1 plane. 2 Q. You understand that Calvin never 3 accused Larry of being a racist. 4 A. I don't know what Calvin accused 5 Larry of. 6 Q. Well, he didn't necessarily accuse 7 him of anything, particularly never accused him 8 of being a racist.

9 A. Is that a question? 10 Q. Are you aware of that?

11 A. I said I'm not aware.

12 Q. Did you know that a board member had

13 suggested to Aschebrook that he was going to be

14 terminated?

15 A. You asked me that just about ten

16 minutes ago, and I said no.

17 Q. Board members -- tell me how active 18 they get involved in administration. 19 A. In what way? 20 Q. Bypassing you. 21 A. I'm not sure what your question is. 22 Q. Well, for example, one of your board 23 members testified two days ago that someone still 24 ought to be fired.

Page 291 1 A. Do you have a question? 2 Q. Yes. 3 Is that something that your board 4 typically does, without running it past the 5 administration, through you or through the 6 director of athletics or through the chief of 7 staff? 8 A. Well, the Board might have opinions

9 about a lot of things, but the president and the 10 administration and the athletic department are

11 situated such that they have operational control

12 and management of the University.

13 Q. Do you think Larry Aschebrook would

14 have been fired had he not resigned?

15 A. I don't have any way of knowing that.

16 Q. You hadn't made that decision yet?

17 A. I wouldn't have been the one to make 18 that decision. I didn't have a lot of 19 involvement with Larry Aschebrook, and in his 20 capacity, when he worked in MAC, either when he 21 ran MAC or before he was just working in the MAC. 22 Q. Who drafted the affidavit that he 23 signed; do you know? 24 A. I don't know.

Page 292 1 Q. Did you know about the affidavit? 2 A. I heard about the affidavit. 3 Q. After the fact? 4 A. After the fact. 5 Q. But did you hear about it after he 6 left? 7 A. I don't know when I heard about it. 8 I heard about it after it was prepared and out in

9 the public, I think. 10 Q. And I think you said the status of

11 the investigation still ongoing.

12 A. That's my understanding.

13 Q. When you found out that Rita

14 Rodriguez did not have an all-area pass this

15 summer, for the football stadium, did that

16 surprise you?

17 A. I was surprised, but thought it could 18 be easily remedied, and it was. 19 Q. What do you think the cause of her 20 not having -- 21 A. I have no idea. 22 Q. Can you tell me whose responsibility 23 would it have been to ultimately make a decision 24 whether she should have one or not?

Page 293 1 A. Well, it's certainly not the 2 president of the University. Contrary to what 3 you may believe, I was president of the entire 4 University, not just the athletic portion of the 5 University. 6 Q. I'm not suggesting -- 7 A. We have a couple other opportunities 8 at the University that are pretty special, like

9 academics and other areas that we haven't gotten 10 to talk about much. But I don't know whose

11 responsibility it would have been, I know that

12 when it was brought to me, I said, "Let's take

13 care of this." And it was taken care of.

14 Q. But wouldn't it be the athletic

15 director?

16 A. I don't know.

17 Q. Did the coach recount to you, on 18 August 24 of '07, an incident on the sidelines 19 where a police officer brought his son with him 20 on the sideline, where the son had to be removed 21 by other coaches? 22 A. I don't remember that. I'm not 23 saying that he didn't, that's just not something 24 I recall.

Page 294 1 Q. Isn't that why he wanted to take 2 control of the sidelines? 3 A. He expressed to me he wanted to take 4 control of the sidelines because he felt he 5 should have control of the sidelines as the head 6 coach. 7 Q. Did he indicate to you, during that 8 two-hour meeting back on August 24, that he was

9 tired of being second-guessed and being put off 10 from a lot of the issues that he raised?

11 A. I don't know if he used those words. 12 He had expressed similar sentiment to me at some

13 point, I'm sure.

14 Q. Maybe you're not old enough, but --

15 and I don't mean that in a derogatory manner.

16 A. Oh, I'm sure.

17 Q. No, I mean I really don't. 18 But when you have somebody that's in 19 a position for a long time, like Ed Pastilong, I 20 think 33 years, older people get resistant to 21 change; do they not? 22 A. I would never make a generalization 23 about people of any age. 24 Q. But you've seen that in certain

Page 295 1 instances. 2 A. I would not agree with that 3 statement. Again, you're asking for a 4 generalization about a generalization, and I 5 won't agree to that. 6 Q. When you were putting -- you 7 acknowledged that you put a little pressure on 8 the coach to sign the contract, that you had to

9 get it done per the Board of Governors. 10 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the

11 form of the question.

12 A. I expressed it to Mr. Rodriguez that

13 it was time to finalize this matter, it had been

14 in agreement since December, and I wanted it

15 resolved before the season. Because I knew once

16 the season began, that he went to work in full,

17 and worked all the time on winning, and it was 18 time to get it signed. Over time, past time to 19 get it signed. 20 BY MR. ROBON: 21 Q. Did Rita Rodriguez speak out at that 22 meeting on August 24 of '07, that she felt Rich 23 was being penalized by the fact that he turned 24 down the Alabama offer, with such a large

Page 296 1 liquidated damage provision? 2 A. I don't remember. She certainly was 3 at the meeting and spoke out from time to time, 4 but I don't remember her saying that exactly. 5 Q. But what do you recall her saying? 6 A. I remember her talking, as I remember 7 Mr. Rodriguez talking a lot about, that they felt 8 undervalued, that they felt like they wanted to

9 be valued, that they wanted to keep the program 10 at the level where it was.

11 And I expressed back to them how much 12 we valued them, and that I, too, shared their

13 desire to keep the program at a very competitive

14 national level.

15 Q. Was there a comment that if Rich

16 didn't sign, it could be "or else"?

17 A. Not that I recall. 18 Q. Do you recall Craig Walker saying 19 that? 20 A. No. 21 Q. You don't know what the "or else" 22 was? 23 A. I don't recall the comment, so I 24 would not imagine what the "or else" could be,

Page 297 1 since I don't recall the comment. 2 Q. Did Rich Rodriguez ever suggest to 3 you that perhaps Governor Manchin should keep his 4 nose out of the football program? 5 A. I recall him suggesting something 6 like that at one point. 7 Q. Did you ever communicate that to the 8 governor?

9 A. I didn't feel like I needed to. I 10 didn't feel like he was, I wasn't bothered about

11 the program by the governor.

12 Q. Isn't it true that on December 8,

13 when you met with Coach Rodriguez, he was

14 indicating to you that he had a deteriorating

15 relationship, which he had said earlier in the

16 summer, with Director Pastilong?

17 A. I'm not sure if he mentioned it on 18 that day, but he had indicated before that he was 19 frustrated, from time to time, with his 20 relationship with the director. It seemed more 21 on a personal level than anything else. 22 Q. And Rita also suggested that; did she 23 not? 24 A. She had mentioned that before, at

Page 298 1 some point, I don't remember when. 2 Q. Were you aware that Craig Walker told 3 the coach he had a heated discussion with 4 Pastilong? 5 A. I'm not aware of that. 6 Q. Were you aware of the comments that 7 Pastilong made on December 2, after the Pitt 8 game, when he had informed Coach Rodriguez he

9 could no longer stick his chest out at the 10 Big East meetings because West Virginia

11 University was not in the national championship?

12 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the

13 form of the question and the premise.

14 A. I am unaware of those comments,

15 alleged or otherwise.

16 BY MR. ROBON:

17 Q. Would that be something he would 18 likely say? 19 A. No. Again, I'm unaware of the 20 comments. 21 Q. Did at one point you infer that you 22 would like to remove Pastilong as the athletic 23 director? 24 A. I did not. In fact, in one of my

Page 299 1 earlier discussions with Mr. Rodriguez, we 2 discussed about, down the road, once 3 Mr. Pastilong moved on, who might be the athletic 4 director. This was very early on in the summer 5 of '07, and I indicated that that was down the 6 road, I did not have plans to remove 7 Mr. Pastilong. 8 Mr. Rodriguez expressed his own

9 interest in the job, potentially, or at least 10 having input on who had the job, if not him,

11 directly. And we talked about his experiences,

12 previously, at Glenville State, where he served,

13 I believe, in that capacity.

14 And I indicated that, you know, I

15 didn't think it would be a good, to be both. But 16 that surprised me. But that he certainly would

17 have input down the road, when there was an 18 opportunity, after the director decided to step 19 down. 20 Q. Do you remember a comment Rita 21 Rodriguez made on August 24, when she indicated 22 to you that she felt Governor Manchin resented 23 the amount of money Rich was making? 24 A. I don't, I don't remember that. I'm

Page 300 1 not saying she didn't make it, but I just don't 2 remember whether she did or not. 3 Q. Do you remember a response that you 4 may have made to her? 5 A. No. 6 Do you want to elaborate on that? 7 Q. Did you say, "I run the University, I 8 am in charge, not Governor Manchin"?

9 A. I don't know if I said that or not, 10 but I certainly believe that the president is, in 11 fact, the individual who runs the University and

12 works with the Board of Governors. You can't

13 ignore the governor, but the president runs the

14 University.

15 Q. And didn't you go on to say that

16 you're not jealous that way, you have no problem

17 paying a coach fair market value, if a coach 18 regularly finishes in the top ten, has a market 19 value of 3 million, you had no problem paying 20 him? 21 A. I don't recall saying those exact 22 words, but I will give you my feelings on that. 23 I don't, I certainly didn't have any problems, 24 and I don't have any problems, with a coach being

Page 301 1 paid at market value, and a coach making more 2 money than, say, a university president. That 3 never bothered me at all, and I recall having 4 some discussion about that with Mr. Rodriguez, at 5 some point. 6 Q. You mentioned that you heard on the 7 news media about Michigan looking at 8 Coach Rodriguez. Isn't it true that Mike Wilcox

9 called you on either Wednesday or Thursday before 10 the Saturday, December 15, and indicated that

11 Michigan might be interested in Coach Rodriguez?

12 A. I don't believe he called me, I think 13 he may have e-mailed Craig to say that he was

14 hearing rumors from his friends in Michigan.

15 Q. But you were aware of that?

16 A. I was aware that he e-mailed Craig

17 and said he was hearing rumors from his friends 18 in Michigan. 19 Q. Was there a responsive e-mail from 20 Craig Walker? 21 A. I don't know if there was or not. 22 Q. Is it fair to say you weren't 23 surprised that Michigan interviewed 24 Coach Rodriguez?

Page 302 1 A. I wasn't surprised they were 2 interested, I was surprised that, that there was 3 not only an interview, but a meeting with lawyers 4 and agents and financial advisors, all on a 5 Friday afternoon. 6 Q. Were there discussions with Steve 7 Goodwin about this, with you? 8 MR. FLAHERTY: What is

9 "this"? 10 MR. ROBON: About Michigan

11 contacting Rich Rodriguez.

12 A. I'm sure at some --

13 MR. WAKEFIELD: He contacted

14 Michigan.

15 MR. ROBON: I sorry?

16 MR. WAKEFIELD: I think he

17 contacted Michigan. 18 MR. ROBON: Rich Rodriguez 19 didn't. 20 MR. FLAHERTY: His agent. 21 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: Mike 22 Brown did. 23 MR. ROBON: Mike Brown may 24 have.

Page 303 1 MR. FLAHERTY: Not "may 2 have," Mike Brown did, he said he did. 3 MR. ROBON: Coach Rodriguez 4 didn't. 5 BY MR. ROBON: 6 Q. My question -- 7 A. Have I discussed this with -- 8 Q. Steve Goodwin.

9 A. Ever? 10 Q. No, back before the coach left.

11 A. I probably spoke with him at some

12 point over that weekend. It happened very

13 quickly, so I don't know if I did or did not.

14 Q. Did he give you any directions?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Told you to do what you think is in

17 the best interest of the University? 18 A. I don't recall what he said. I can't 19 speculate as to what he said, but I'm sure that I 20 informed him, once I was aware of what was 21 happening. 22 Q. Do you know who decided that Ed 23 Pastilong and Craig Walker should meet with the 24 coach on Saturday morning?

Page 304 1 A. I don't know who decided that. I 2 know that I was aware of it and I wanted them to, 3 to try and figure out what exactly, what exactly 4 was happening, and what was going on, and why 5 there appeared to be a meeting with lawyers and 6 our football coach and University of Michigan 7 representatives on Friday, December 13, or 8 whatever day that was, 14th.

9 Q. Did Rich, as far as you know, list 10 the same concerns with Pastilong and Walker on

11 the afternoon, or early, late morning, I should

12 say, early afternoon on the 15th, that he

13 expressed to you?

14 A. My impression of that meeting was

15 that it was similar to the meeting that I had

16 with Mr. Rodriguez later that day, which was a

17 bit rambling, and some discussion about the 18 discussions, or some discussion about the matters 19 that were being reviewed and discussed. That's 20 my impression of that meeting. I was not in the 21 meeting. 22 Q. Did the coach indicate to you that it 23 amazed him that a school in Michigan, that 24 doesn't even know him, is willing to do all sorts

Page 305 1 of things for him, and where he has been for a 2 number of years here at West Virginia University, 3 where they know him and they know his reputation, 4 and he could not get any action? 5 A. He said something to that effect. I 6 don't know if those are the exact words. 7 Q. And your response was, "You got a 8 decision to make, stay or go"?

9 A. I don't believe I used that exact 10 phrase, but I did say that, as I stated earlier,

11 I know that he felt it was a tough decision. I

12 felt that the University, here, had done a number 13 of really forward-thinking things, including a

14 very lucrative contract, and that we were, I was, 15 as president, committed to working with him in

16 the future on future contracts, to keep him here, 17 to keep the program competitive nationally, and 18 that I liked and respected everything he was 19 doing for the program. 20 Q. And I think I touched on this before, 21 but I want to be sure. On December 15, he never 22 asked you for any more money for himself, 23 correct? 24 A. That is correct, not that I recall

Page 306 1 any additional moneys for himself. 2 Q. Did you have a list of candidates in 3 mind to replace Rodriguez back on December 15? 4 A. No. I didn't think we were going to 5 have to replace our football coach on 6 December 15. 7 Q. So it's fair to say you didn't expect 8 him to leave?

9 A. I was shocked by the fact that he 10 left.

11 Q. Is it fair to say that you didn't

12 give him affirmative answers because you just

13 didn't think he would leave?

14 A. That's not fair to say.

15 I did not give him affirmative

16 answers because I did not have affirmative

17 answers. I was shocked by the fact that there 18 appeared to be a meeting that was finalizing, or 19 awfully close to finalizing, an arrangement with 20 a different university on a Friday afternoon, 21 less than a week after Mr. Rodriguez expressed to 22 me that he planned to be here for the duration of 23 his career. 24 Q. Were you --

Page 307 1 A. And about a year after he said, 2 publicly, that he planned to be there for a very 3 long time. 4 Q. Did you hear Governor Manchin's 5 comments on the radio, blasting Rich Rodriguez 6 for leaving? 7 A. I did not. 8 Q. Did you hear about it?

9 A. Not that I recall. 10 Q. And do you remember hearing

11 Governor Manchin say, "We'll collect every penny

12 of the $4 million"?

13 A. I don't recall whether he said that

14 or not.

15 Q. Did you read about it or hear about

16 it later?

17 A. I don't recall reading or hearing 18 about it later. 19 Q. Can you tell me how Governor Manchin 20 would have known about the $4 million buyout? 21 A. I cannot. 22 Q. Did the coach tell you that he felt 23 he received more respect, nationally, from the 24 media and other coaches than he got from his own

Page 308 1 administration or athletic director? 2 A. I don't recall. 3 Q. Or something very similar? 4 A. Could you repeat the question. 5 Q. Yeah. 6 Did Coach Rodriguez indicate to you 7 that he felt that he got more respect, 8 nationally, from outside the state than he got

9 here at West Virginia University? 10 A. He may have mentioned something like

11 that. Of course, I've already discussed the

12 feelings he expressed to me on the night of

13 December 15, which surprised me very much.

14 Q. Did you know that Rich Rodriguez

15 worked for Governor Manchin?

16 A. I am aware of that. I don't know how 17 I'm aware of that, if someone said it, or if 18 someone said it publicly. I have been told that 19 by someone. 20 Q. Can you indicate to the jury any 21 efforts that you, Ed Pastilong or Craig Walker 22 made on any overtures to Coach Rodriguez on 23 December 15 of '07 to induce him to stay? 24 A. Well, I recounted all the efforts

Page 309 1 that had been made since I had come in as 2 president. We were under a contract, an 3 agreement. We indicated that we were working on 4 the other issues that had been mentioned. I 5 thought it was important that focus be put on the 6 upcoming Fiesta Bowl. And that I was committed 7 to working with, as I had worked with 8 Mr. Rodriguez and his team in the past, working

9 with him, after that time, to continue to improve 10 the program as he wished. And there was, again,

11 an agreement that had been signed.

12 Q. Do you recall having discussions

13 where you heard Steve Farmer and Drew Payne tell

14 Coach Rodriguez who was going to be the next

15 president, before you were selected?

16 A. I do not.

17 Q. You indicated you were going to be 18 the point person after September 1, with regard 19 to this case, correct? 20 A. I don't know that for sure. I 21 indicated that I would assume that I would be 22 very much involved, as needed. 23 Q. Well, who, would it be you or the 24 Board that would be making a decision, or

Page 310 1 Governor Manchin? 2 A. It certainly wouldn't be 3 Governor Manchin. 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Mr. Robon, 5 your papers are right on top of your mike. 6 MR. ROBON: I'm sorry. 7 BY MR. ROBON: 8 Q. Has there been a thought as to who an

9 interim president would be? 10 A. I don't know if there has been or

11 not, that's not my decision.

12 Q. What did you tell the Board you would 13 do in connection with this lawsuit, last Friday,

14 when you indicated you were resigning effective

15 September 1?

16 A. I didn't indicate I was resigning

17 effective September 1. I indicated that I was 18 stepping down as president September 1. I did 19 not discuss this lawsuit with the Board last 20 Friday. 21 Q. Did you discuss it the Friday before? 22 A. No. 23 Q. So you don't know, after September 1, 24 whether or not you're going to have control of

Page 311 1 the lawsuit. 2 A. I have, to suggest I have complete 3 control now is a misnomer. I work with our Board 4 and with our counsel on the lawsuit. I will 5 continue to be involved in whatever capacity I'm 6 needed, and the Board has indicated, as you are 7 aware, that there will be an interim president 8 selected by September 1.

9 Q. Is the Foundation or the University 10 paying for Mr. Fitzsimmons' and Mr. Flaherty's

11 offices?

12 A. I don't know.

13 Q. Who retained them?

14 A. The University.

15 Q. What other jobs would you be

16 interested in here at the University?

17 A. I haven't given that any thought. 18 Q. Did Bill Case and Amy Neil work for 19 you in the fall of '07? 20 A. They worked for the University in the 21 fall of '07. 22 Q. But under your supervision? 23 A. Yes, they worked in Stewart Hall. 24 Q. And were they the ones who reviewed

Page 312 1 press releases for the president's office? 2 A. They were part of a team of people 3 who would have reviewed press releases for the 4 president's office. 5 Q. Were they new people or carryovers 6 from the old administration? 7 A. Both were new to the president's 8 office. Amy was a new employee to the

9 University, and Bill had worked at the Health 10 Sciences Center for several years.

11 Q. Is it fair to say that you took the

12 lead, when you became the interim president, in

13 getting the Rodriguez contract executed?

14 A. I don't know if it's fair to say that 15 I took the lead, it was certainly something that

16 I assumed was completed, and hadn't been

17 completed, and I thought it should be completed. 18 And Mr. Rodriguez asked me to get involved, as 19 best I could. 20 Q. Did you tell Mike Brown that it was 21 your number-one priority to get the amendment 22 signed, the employment contract? 23 A. I do not recall telling Mike Brown it 24 was my number-one priority to get the amendment

Page 313 1 signed. 2 Q. You don't deny it, though. 3 A. I don't recall it. 4 Q. Did Mike Brown show you a spreadsheet 5 from the BCS Conference, coaches' data about 6 other buyouts? 7 MR. FLAHERTY: BCS 8 Conference?

9 MR. ROBON: The Big East 10 Conference.

11 A. I don't recall him doing that. He

12 may have, but I don't recall.

13 BY MR. ROBON:

14 Q. At that meeting again on August 24,

15 '07, did you use the words you were going to

16 implement a "cultural change" within the

17 administration? 18 MR. FLAHERTY: Objection, 19 asked and answered. 20 A. I don't remember using those words. 21 I've seen them in an e-mail from Mike Wilcox to 22 me and/or Craig Walker. 23 BY MR. ROBON: 24 Q. Did you ever indicate that you would

Page 314 1 put the media rights out for bid for the 2 University to raise more money? 3 A. We had a lot of discussions about 4 that in our office and with some folks in the 5 athletic department. I've talked about that with 6 Mr. Rodriguez before. And we had an interest, 7 and continue to have an interest, in exploring 8 those possibilities.

9 Q. Did Coach Rodriguez, would he have 10 gotten the impression from you that you were

11 actually going to do that?

12 A. I don't know what impression he got

13 from me.

14 Q. Did you indicate that you were going

15 to put it out for bid, because it didn't cost you 16 anything to do that?

17 A. I certainly indicated it was 18 something we were interested in exploring and 19 needed to get more information about it. 20 Q. In fact, did Mike Brown give Craig 21 Walker a request for proposal form, I think it's 22 used by Clemson University for the same thing. 23 A. I don't know what Mike Brown may have 24 given or tried to give to Craig Walker.

Page 315 1 Q. Did Coach Rodriguez compare his 2 buyout with Coach Huggins' $1 million buyout? 3 A. I don't recall him specifically 4 comparing his buyout with Coach Huggins' buyout. 5 Q. Didn't he say it was kind of unfair 6 that it was four times as much? 7 A. I don't recall him saying that. 8 Q. Do you recall indicating to Richard

9 Rodriguez that the $4 million had to be included 10 because of commitments from donors?

11 MR. FLAHERTY: Objection,

12 asked and answered several times.

13 BY MR. ROBON:

14 Q. You can answer.

15 A. I have the same answer I gave you

16 before. I have no knowledge of that, wouldn't

17 have indicated because I have no knowledge of 18 that. I have no knowledge of that today, I 19 haven't been told that by anyone. 20 Q. Did you ever read Mike Brown's 21 affidavit? 22 MR. FLAHERTY: Mike Brown's 23 affidavit? 24 MR. ROBON: Yes.

Page 316 1 MR. FLAHERTY: Can you be 2 more specific? 3 MR. ROBON: The one that was 4 filed in this lawsuit. 5 A. No, I have not read it. 6 BY MR. ROBON: 7 Q. Did you know the athletes at the 8 University of Pittsburgh got to keep their

9 textbooks? 10 A. I have no idea.

11 Q. Did you suggest to Pastilong or

12 Walker that they check with the Big East schools

13 to find out what other schools were doing in that 14 regard?

15 A. As indicated in Craig's memo, Craig

16 asked the athletic department to explore that

17 possibility. 18 Q. And after that memo of August 27, 19 '07, nothing further developed from that, as far 20 as you know, correct? 21 A. I wouldn't agree with that at all. 22 Q. There were no memorandums issued or 23 directives changing anything, correct? 24 A. There were a number of actions taken,

Page 317 1 as they were specified in the memo. 2 Q. And I'm talking about the textbooks. 3 A. I don't know. I don't know. 4 Q. Did Pastilong indicate displeasure 5 with you because he wasn't at the signing of the 6 Rodriguez second amendment? 7 A. Not that I recall. 8 Q. Are you aware that Pastilong

9 indicated that the athletic department had no 10 intention of fulfilling the promises made to the

11 coach that would be looked into on August 24?

12 MR. FLAHERTY: Objection.

13 A. That's never been stated to me.

14 MR. ROBON: Why don't we take 15 five minutes, and I can make this go faster.

16 Maybe ten minutes.

17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 18 is 4:52 p.m., and we're going off the record. 19 * * * 20 (Brief break) 21 * * * 22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 23 is 5:18 p.m., we are back on the record. 24 BY MR. ROBON:

Page 318 1 Q. Mr. Garrison, did you ever figure out 2 what the approximate cost would have been to the 3 athletic department at the West Virginia 4 University to implement the rest of the bullet 5 points that Coach Rodriguez was asking for? 6 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and 7 answered. 8 A. I don't know what the approximate

9 cost of those things were. 10 BY MR. ROBON:

11 Q. Did you have an estimation?

12 A. I don't have an estimation.

13 Q. I asked you before if you'll be

14 making decisions regarding this lawsuit after

15 September 1, and you said the Board of Governors. 16 Will you retain responsibility for this lawsuit?

17 A. I will not be president after 18 September 1, and the responsibility resides with 19 the Board and with the interim president. I will 20 assist in any way that I am asked. 21 Q. So they may give you the assignment, 22 but you don't know. 23 A. I don't know, but I will not be 24 president after September 1.

Page 319 1 Q. And I asked you before who hired the 2 lawyers, and you weren't sure. Are they working 3 on an hourly or a contingent fee basis? 4 A. I don't know. 5 Q. Who would know? 6 A. I don't know. I assume my counsel 7 would know. 8 Q. Alex Macia?

9 A. He may know. 10 Q. You have indicated several times that 11 you didn't believe the governor was involved in

12 the athletic department, correct?

13 A. I didn't indicate that.

14 Q. Well, is that a fact, that he is

15 involved?

16 A. I didn't indicate that.

17 Q. Well, what is he? 18 A. Do you have a question? Just ask me 19 the question. 20 Q. Is he involved or not? 21 A. In what way? 22 Q. In operational decisions and the 23 athletic department, hiring coaches, for example? 24 A. Not to my knowledge. No.

Page 320 1 Q. Were you aware that he made an offer 2 to Jimbo Fisher, as your new head coach for 3 football? 4 A. I am not aware, and I don't believe 5 that. 6 Q. Were you aware that he talked to 7 Terry Bowden? 8 A. I recall reading a statement by the

9 governor in the press that he spoke with Terry 10 Bowden, or Coach Bowden's father. I can't recall 11 which it was.

12 Q. What about Butch Jones, spoke with

13 them?

14 A. Pardon me?

15 Q. Have you spoke with Butch Jones?

16 A. Who? The governor?

17 Q. Yes. 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. Would that surprise you? 20 A. I don't, I don't have any feelings 21 about it, I don't know and am not aware that the 22 governor did speak with Coach Jones. 23 Q. With respect to the selection of the 24 replacement for Coach Rodriguez, did

Page 321 1 West Virginia University interview any coach that 2 was under a contract with another university? 3 A. Oh, I'm sure we did. 4 * * * 5 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 6 Exhibit NNN was marked for purposes of 7 identification.) 8 * * *

9 BY MR. ROBON: 10 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've

11 marked as Exhibit NNN.

12 MR. WAKEFIELD: N or M?

13 MR. ROBON: "N" as in

14 "Nancy."

15 BY MR. ROBON:

16 Q. We talked briefly about the shredding 17 incident. Did you read this article from the 18 local news? 19 A. I don't recall this article, no. 20 Q. Do you agree that someone from the 21 University had to have indicated to an outside 22 source that certain documents or papers were 23 shredded in Coach Rodriguez's office before he 24 left?

Page 322 1 A. I don't agree with that. I have no 2 knowledge, whatever. 3 Q. And no determination has been made in 4 the last seven months to determine who or whom 5 made those accusations? 6 A. I know that there has been an ongoing 7 investigation by the DPS, and I know nothing else 8 about that investigation.

9 Q. Have you been interviewed by the DPS? 10 A. I have not.

11 Q. Who in the athletic department has

12 been interviewed?

13 A. I have no idea.

14 Q. Who is the DPS director?

15 A. Captain Bob Roberts.

16 Q. Would he know, or should know?

17 A. He may know, should know. 18 Q. Is there a reason that West Virginia 19 University never issued a retraction that the 20 coach didn't do anything wrong? 21 A. I don't know if I understand your 22 question. 23 MR. WAKEFIELD: Object to 24 the form, the word "retraction."

Page 323 1 BY MR. ROBON: 2 Q. Is there any reason that 3 West Virginia University didn't issue a statement 4 that, "We have no information that shows any 5 wrongdoing on the part of Coach Rodriguez"? 6 A. I don't know of any reason why it 7 would or wouldn't have. I don't know what the 8 results of the investigation are, I know very

9 little about this matter. 10 Q. Did you talk to your media people

11 about this matter?

12 A. I've never spoken to my media people

13 about this matter.

14 Q. Do you think the media just made this 15 story up, or did the shredding incident take

16 place?

17 MR. FLAHERTY: Your client 18 has admitted the shredding incident took place. 19 20 BY MR. ROBON: 21 Q. Well, of wrong documents. 22 A. I don't know. I don't know where it 23 came from, I don't know anything about the 24 incident.

Page 324 1 Q. Would you agree with me that the 2 likely source was from within the athletic 3 department? 4 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 5 form. 6 A. I would not agree with any of that. 7 BY MR. ROBON: 8 Q. Was anybody reprimanded or

9 terminated -- 10 A. I've already stated, I don't know

11 anything about the investigation.

12 Q. Well, let me finish my question.

13 Was anybody reprimanded or terminated 14 within the athletic department, since the

15 shredding incident, for any reason?

16 A. I don't know if anyone was

17 reprimanded or has been reprimanded or terminated 18 in the athletic department since this incident. 19 Q. You would agree with me that academic 20 and financial records fall under compliance of 21 the president's office? 22 A. What type of academic and financial 23 records? 24 Q. Grades, grade-point averages,

Page 325 1 tuition. 2 A. They would be managed by the 3 individual units throughout the University. 4 Q. It wouldn't be kept in a coach's 5 office. 6 A. I don't know what would be kept in a 7 coach's office. 8 Q. Did you ever make inquiry of what

9 allegedly was shredded? 10 A. No.

11 Q. As far as you're concerned, the case

12 is closed?

13 A. I didn't say that. I said there was

14 an ongoing investigation, as far as I know, by

15 DPS. I do not know what the status of that is.

16 Q. When we were talking before about

17 sources of revenue that Mike Brown suggested that 18 the West Virginia University could implement, he 19 talked about premium game tickets, I think he 20 gave an estimate of a million dollars for premium 21 games against Rutgers, South Florida and Auburn. 22 Are you aware of that? 23 A. I'm not aware of that. 24 Q. Did he suggest you could make as much

Page 326 1 as a million-and-a-half dollars with radio and TV 2 sponsorships, if they were outsourced? 3 A. I don't have any recollection of 4 specific numbers. I have already stated my 5 understanding and knowledge that, and my feeling 6 that we should explore the potential bidding out 7 or an RFP for those sorts of things. 8 Q. Did he mention a seat equity plan for

9 2009? 10 A. I don't know anything about that.

11 Q. Do you know what a seat equity plan

12 is?

13 A. No, I don't.

14 Q. Where a person actually purchases a

15 seat?

16 A. I don't know what it is.

17 Q. You don't know what it is? 18 A. No, I do not. 19 Q. What about naming the gates at the 20 entries to the entrances to the university 21 football field? 22 A. I didn't have any conversations, 23 whatsoever, with Mr. Brown about that. 24 Q. Did he ever indicate to you that

Page 327 1 West Virginia University, as a top-20 football 2 and basketball program, could get about the same 3 money South Carolina did, which is about 4 $5 million a year? 5 A. I don't recall having any comparative 6 conversation with him about South Carolina and 7 WVU. 8 Q. Is it fair to say that Pastilong kind

9 of stonewalls these recommendations? 10 MR. FLAHERTY: Objection,

11 asked and answered. You're substituting the word 12 "stymied" for "stonewall."

13 MR. ROBON: They're

14 different.

15 MR. FLAHERTY: Well, asked

16 and answered several times. At least this is the 17 fourth time it's been asked. 18 BY MR. ROBON: 19 Q. Do you deny that? 20 A. I agree that you've asked and 21 answered it -- and I've answered it four times, I 22 agree with that. 23 * * * 24 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition

Page 328 1 Exhibit OOO was marked for purposes of 2 identification.) 3 * * * 4 BY MR. ROBON: 5 Q. I'm going to hand you what's been 6 marked as OOO, which is an article in the 7 Pittsburgh Post-Gazette -- 8 A. Uh-huh.

9 Q. -- on March 27 of this year. Had you 10 seen that article?

11 A. The one with Mike Brown's name at the 12 top, you just gave me?

13 Q. Yes.

14 A. Okay.

15 Q. Well, it's faxed from Mike Brown.

16 A. I see that, yes, that's the one I'm

17 looking at. 18 I have not seen this article. 19 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: Faxed 20 yesterday. 21 MR. FLAHERTY: Along with 22 some of the other ones. 23 BY MR. ROBON: 24 Q. Do you read the Pittsburgh

Page 329 1 Post-Gazette? 2 A. Not frequently. 3 Q. Not frequently. 4 Do you want to take a moment and read 5 this while we go off camera? 6 A. I can read it, I can skim through it 7 very quickly. 8 MR. R.J. FITZSIMMONS: We're

9 close to a tape change anyway, so we'll go ahead. 10 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time

11 is 5:30 p.m., we're going off the record. This

12 ends tape six.

13 * * *

14 (Brief break)

15 * * *

16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time

17 is 5:34 p.m., we are back on the record. This 18 begins tape seven. 19 20 BY MR. ROBON: 21 Q. You have in front of you Exhibit OOO, 22 it's an article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette 23 on March 27, 2008, relating to the MBA inquiry of 24 Heather Bresch.

Page 330 1 Have you had chance to review that 2 article? 3 A. I read through it very quickly, yes. 4 Q. You've known Heather Bresch for many, 5 many years, correct? 6 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and 7 answered. 8 A. Yes, previously.

9 BY MR. ROBON: 10 Q. She's the governor's daughter.

11 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and

12 answered.

13 BY MR. ROBON:

14 Q. Yes?

15 A. She is.

16 Q. Can you explain to me, when did she

17 first contact you relative to getting an MBA 18 certificate? 19 A. She never contacted me relative to 20 getting an MBA certificate. 21 Q. What did she contact you for? 22 A. She made a phone call to me on or 23 around October 11 or 12, that I asked Craig 24 Walker to return, and I ultimately spoke with her

Page 331 1 as well, wherein she indicated that she was 2 receiving calls from the media about her EMBA, 3 and that there were inquiries about whether she 4 had it or not. And that one part of the 5 University believed she had it, she believed, or 6 that she believed she had it but the University 7 was indicating that she didn't have it, and that 8 she wanted some clarity because she believed that

9 she had earned her EMBA. 10 Q. Did it seem strange to you that this

11 call originated within six weeks of your taking

12 office as president of West Virginia University?

13 A. It didn't seem strange, I didn't

14 really think about it. She indicated, or I now

15 know, and I believe that she indicated at the

16 time that she had received a promotion recently. 17 And because of that, there was a story about her, 18 or a press release or something, that listed that 19 she had an EMBA, and there was a call to 20 determine whether she did or not, by the media. 21 Q. Would an ordinary student be able to 22 reach you, as president, under a similar 23 circumstance if they were not the governor's 24 daughter?

Page 332 1 A. Most certainly. 2 Q. You take calls from students? 3 A. If they call me, I do, or return 4 e-mails or stop me on the sidewalk. I pride 5 myself and have prided myself since I've arrived 6 as president as being very accessible and very 7 open and very available to current and former 8 students, staff, faculty, alums.

9 Q. Have you been interviewed by any law 10 enforcement officials concerning the Bresch case?

11 A. By any law enforcement officials?

12 Q. Yes.

13 A. No.

14 Q. Have you ever testified in front of

15 the grand jury?

16 A. No, I have not.

17 Q. Do you know anyone at the University 18 who has testified in front of the grand jury? 19 A. No, I do not. On this matter? No, I 20 do not, and I think your question presumes that 21 there is, in fact, a grand jury impaneled. 22 Q. Do you know if anyone at the 23 University was interviewed by law enforcement 24 officers concerning the Bresch matter?

Page 333 1 A. To my knowledge, no, I don't know. 2 Q. In the -- well, let's mark the actual 3 Bresch report PPP. 4 * * * 5 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 6 Exhibit PPP was marked for purposes of 7 identification.) 8 * * *

9 BY MR. ROBON: 10 Q. You've, obviously, seen PPP, the

11 Bresch report dated April 21, '08, correct?

12 A. I have.

13 Q. In that report, on page 3, read the

14 third paragraph out loud.

15 A. The third paragraph?

16 Q. Yes.

17 A. "The panel finds further that actions 18 undertaken by WVU administrators in October of 19 2007 to determine whether Ms. Bresch had earned 20 an MBA degree in 1998 to thereafter modify her 21 transcript were seriously flawed and reflected 22 poor judgment." 23 Q. And then turn to page 8, and read the 24 first paragraph under "Decisional Meeting."

Page 334 1 A. "A meeting was then held on Monday, 2 October 15, to assess the information gathered to 3 that point. Although not designated as such 4 beforehand, this meeting turned into a decisional 5 meeting on question whether Ms. Bresch would be 6 awarded an MBA. The meeting was chaired by 7 Provost Lang. Also present from the president's 8 office were Chief of Staff Walker, General

9 Counsel Alex Macia, Vice President for 10 Communications Bill Case. Attending from B&E

11 were Dean Sears, Associate Dean Logar, Director

12 Blakely and Professor Speaker."

13 Q. Were you kept abreast of what

14 happened at that meeting?

15 A. I was not. I was later informed,

16 sometime either later that week or the following

17 week, that individuals in B&E, specifically the 18 dean, had determined that Ms. Bresch should be 19 awarded the degree. 20 Q. Was there ever an explanation from 21 Heather Bresch as to why she waited nine years to 22 bring up this issue? 23 A. Not to me. 24 Q. Did you ever suggest to your chief of

Page 335 1 staff or your in-house counsel they should ask 2 that question? 3 A. I specifically said to her, the one 4 time I spoke to her about it, that I have no idea 5 what happened nine years ago, we would try and 6 put the issue in the hands of those who might be 7 able to determine that, namely, the provost and 8 those in the College of Business & Economics.

9 Q. Turn to page 12, and read the last 10 paragraph.

11 A. "As a result of these grade

12 modifications, the panel concludes that

13 Ms. Bresch's amended transcript now reflects her

14 completion of some courses that she did not in

15 fact complete, and reflects a number of grades

16 that she did not in fact earn."

17 Q. And then turn to page 15, and read 18 the last paragraph on page 15. 19 A. "She was treated differently because 20 of the nature of the response by the WVU 21 administration to these events, by the haste and 22 irregularity of the decision-making process, by 23 the credibility that was afforded to her version 24 of events, and by the high-level nature of the

Page 336 1 individuals involved in the decision-making 2 process. The panel does not consider such haste 3 and lack of adherence to standard operating 4 procedures to be appropriate when dealing with 5 academic issues. This is particularly 6 problematic when it results in modifying academic 7 records without clear, supporting evidence, as 8 occurred in this case."

9 Q. Turn to page 37, there's a list of 10 e-mails --

11 A. Uh-huh.

12 Q. -- that the panel looked at. And

13 starting about halfway down, there is e-mails

14 from Jim Bissett to you, Jocelyn Warman to you,

15 Jacquelyn Warman to you, Jim Bissett, again, to

16 you, and Ted Webb to you.

17 Were you kept abreast of these 18 situations as they were going on, in the form of 19 e-mails? 20 A. No, I was not. If you'll note, these 21 e-mails are dated in January of 2008. These were 22 normally press clippings that were sent to the 23 entire office. The e-mail from Ms. Warman was a 24 personal e-mail, and so forth.

Page 337 1 Q. This is, in fact, the fact that this 2 report was issued, PPP, is the fact that you gave 3 up your position as president of the University, 4 correct? 5 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 6 form of the question. 7 MR. ROBON: I'll rephrase 8 the question.

9 BY MR. ROBON: 10 Q. What caused you to announce your

11 resignation as president of the University, or

12 West Virginia University?

13 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the

14 form of the question, use of the word

15 "resignation."

16 BY MR. ROBON:

17 Q. Did you resign as president? 18 A. I stated that I would conclude my 19 service as president on September 1. 20 Q. So you technically didn't resign. 21 A. I concluded, I will conclude my 22 service as president on September 1. 23 Q. And that's when your contract runs 24 out, right?

Page 338 1 A. That is not correct. 2 Q. Did the Heather Bresch matter -- I'll 3 rephrase the question. 4 Did the attention in the media to 5 West Virginia University, and all of the negative 6 press with regard to the Heather Bresch matter, 7 lead you to give notice that you would no longer 8 be president as of September 1, 2008?

9 A. There, obviously, was a great deal of 10 attention in the media about the Bresch matter

11 and the way that the decision was made by the

12 individuals in B&E in the Bresch matter. I was

13 very supportive of an independent panel's report, 14 which included those from outside the University. 15 I said that we would support whatever the

16 findings of the panel were, when it came back.

17 When it did come back, I was charged by the Board 18 of Governors to implement the panel's report. I 19 did that. 20 There continued to be a great deal of 21 media scrutiny, some accurate, some inaccurate, 22 about the findings of the panel's report, and a 23 good deal of controversy surrounding it. 24 I will note that the panel's report

Page 339 1 indicated that we take no personnel action. No 2 personnel action had been taken. I will indicate 3 that the panel's report is clear that I had no 4 involvement in the decision-making process, and 5 that the Board of Governors recently indicated 6 that I engaged in no wrongdoing. 7 Nonetheless, the continual discussion 8 of this issue in the media, I believe was

9 ultimately detrimental for the University, and 10 that I was the one individual that could stop

11 that discussion and allow us to begin the

12 discussion again about all the great things that

13 happen at WVU. And I think that's what everybody 14 wants for WVU.

15 Q. Did the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette file

16 a FOIA action against West Virginia University

17 for your phone records? 18 A. It did. 19 Q. And is the University fighting that? 20 A. We are not. 21 Q. Have you provided the phone records? 22 A. We have. 23 Q. Did the phone records indicate that 24 you made calls to Ms. Bresch?

Page 340 1 A. I don't believe they did, no. 2 Q. Did you receive or make calls to 3 Milan Puskar in connection with this matter, the 4 Bresch matter? 5 A. I did not. 6 Q. What about Joe Manchin? 7 A. I did not. I spoke with 8 Governor Manchin, as indicated in the panel

9 report. 10 Have you read the panel report?

11 Q. Yes.

12 A. And all the detail?

13 Q. I read the whole thing.

14 A. Okay.

15 Then you will find that, as I said in 16 the panel report, that I spoke with the governor

17 after the story came out in the Pittsburgh 18 Post-Gazette, at the end of December. And that 19 was the first time I had spoken with the governor 20 about this matter. 21 Q. And the panel, the five-person panel 22 found that there was a failure of leadership, 23 correct? 24 A. Failure of academic leadership, yes.

Page 341 1 Q. And, of course, the buck stops at the 2 top, right? 3 A. The buck stops at the president's 4 office, that is the saying that is often used. 5 Q. Can you indicate to me why you put a 6 date of September 1 for your stepping down as 7 president, as opposed to immediately. 8 A. I believe, in conjunction with the,

9 and cooperation with the Board, the Board needed 10 an appropriate amount of time to identify an

11 interim president. It would be irresponsible to

12 leave, me to leave without allowing the Board

13 that appropriate amount of time, to find

14 transition leadership.

15 Q. Do you believe the Board would have

16 asked you to step down had you not voluntarily

17 done so? 18 A. No one on the Board had. 19 Q. My question is: Do you believe they 20 would have? 21 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 22 form. 23 A. I had not been asked to by anyone. 24 My intention was to do what was best

Page 342 1 for the University, regardless of how it might 2 affect me personally. And I think that's what 3 people should do. 4 * * * 5 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 6 Exhibit QQQ was marked for purposes of 7 identification.) 8 * * *

9 BY MR. ROBON: 10 Q. I'm going to hand you what's been

11 marked as Exhibit QQQ, which is an article that

12 appeared May 4 in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, it 13 shows your photograph and Ms. Bresch's

14 photograph. Have you seen that article in the

15 past?

16 A. Just about five minutes ago, when you 17 showed it to me. 18 Q. And does that article basically state 19 that there were improprieties within the 20 administration of the West Virginia University in 21 awarding the degree to Ms. Bresch? 22 A. The article summarizes a number of 23 previous articles from the Pittsburgh 24 Post-Gazette, and attempts to offer some detail

Page 343 1 about what the panel findings were. 2 Q. Is it fair to say that you've known 3 Heather Bresch for a long, long time, and if you 4 could do her a favor, you would? 5 A. That is not fair to say. 6 I have known her for several years. 7 I do not agree in any way with your suggestion 8 that I would attempt to do her a favor in this

9 matter. 10 Q. You were actually her lawyer at one

11 time.

12 A. I was a lawyer for Mylan

13 Pharmaceuticals, yes.

14 Q. Is she a part owner of that?

15 A. You asked me that earlier. I do not

16 know.

17 Q. And Mylan promoted her from within, 18 correct? 19 A. I do not know how she was promoted. 20 I know that she's been at Mylan for a long time, 21 I assume she was promoted from within. 22 * * * 23 (Whereupon, Garrison Deposition 24 Exhibit RRR was marked for purposes of

Page 344 1 identification.) 2 * * * 3 BY MR. ROBON: 4 Q. I'm going to hand you what we've 5 marked as Exhibit RRR, which is a letter dated 6 June 3 to the secretary of the Board of Governors 7 of West Virginia University. 8 Have you seen this document in the

9 past? 10 A. I did read about it, yes.

11 Q. And it's signed by five distinguished 12 alumni from the University?

13 A. There are five signatures on the

14 letter, yes.

15 Q. Do you know the five people that

16 signed the letter?

17 A. I know them all except Mr. Kalis. I 18 know who he is. 19 Q. And they're large contributors to 20 West Virginia University's Foundation, correct? 21 A. I do not know about their 22 contribution levels, except what I read about 23 Mr. Kendrick and Mr. Reynolds, discussions about 24 their own, or lack thereof, in the paper.

Page 345 1 Q. So what you know is secondhand in the 2 news media. 3 A. I don't make it a habit of reviewing 4 what contribution levels are. I have no reason 5 to doubt that they are contributors, but I have 6 no reason to know that they're large 7 contributors, as you've described them. 8 Q. Doesn't West Virginia University

9 publicized the donors, once a year, who 10 contribute moneys to the University by category,

11 you know, over a million dollars, 750 to million, 12 and half-million to 750,000, on down to the

13 people that give 100 bucks?

14 A. There are occasional publications

15 about that, I don't know. Your question was,

16 they're all large donors to the University, and I 17 don't know that to be the case. 18 Q. Is it fair to say that as a result of 19 this letter, it was kind of the document that 20 pushed far enough that you thought it would be in 21 the best interests of the University to resign as 22 president? 23 A. It is not fair to say that. 24 Q. How would you treat this letter?

Page 346 1 What would you say is a response to it? 2 A. I think there are several 3 inaccuracies in the letter, and -- 4 Q. What would you say is inaccurate? 5 A. There are, the suggestion that there 6 was cheating at the highest level of the 7 University. I could go through the letter, but 8 that's one that is completely inaccurate.

9 I think that the suggestion that I 10 somehow seek to creatively rationalize actions by 11 discrediting other degrees is a complete

12 inaccuracy, because there is an, and has been an

13 ongoing audit in the College of Business &

14 Economics, but was not directed by me. That is

15 an inaccuracy.

16 And there are several others

17 throughout the letter. 18 Q. Well, finish with what the others 19 are, I'd like to know. 20 A. That there is, they suggest that 21 there's an, apparently an attempt to curry favor 22 in high places. That is certainly nothing that I 23 have engaged in at any time. 24 Q. I think that's a suggestion that

Page 347 1 you're friendly with the governor. Would you 2 take it that way? 3 A. I don't know how to take it, other 4 than the suggestion that there's dishonest action 5 to curry favor in high places. And I do not 6 agree with that and I resent it. 7 And while I think a university 8 president ought to have a good relationship with

9 any governor at a large land-grant university, I 10 certainly wouldn't try and do a favor for him or

11 his family to do so.

12 Q. What other inaccuracies do you find?

13 A. That grades and degrees are handed to 14 the powerful on a silver platter. That is

15 incorrect.

16 That students have chosen to attend

17 other institutions because of this matter, that 18 millions of dollars in donations have been 19 canceled because of this matter, that faculty 20 members have abandoned Morgantown for other 21 campuses because of this matter. 22 Q. Is that all false, or partly true? 23 A. I don't know of any student that has 24 indicated they intend to attend another

Page 348 1 university because of this matter, I have not 2 been contacted by any. 3 Q. Not faculty? 4 A. Faculty members, there were three in 5 the media that suggested, initially, that they 6 intended to leave because of this matter, and 7 later said that they were planning on leaving 8 anyhow, and that they did not like this matter,

9 which I understand very much. 10 That I have led WVU into a period of

11 dishonesty and dishonor, and that the Board is

12 somehow a collaborator in that effort.

13 Those are many of the inaccuracies in 14 the letter.

15 Q. Is there now a movement within the

16 state legislature to change the membership of the 17 Board of Governors, that you're aware of? 18 A. I don't know. I don't know. 19 Q. You haven't heard of that? 20 A. I haven't heard of that. I don't 21 know if there is or is not. It's not something I 22 would be involved with. 23 MR. ROBON: Let's go off 24 camera.

Page 349 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 2 is 5:57 p.m., we are going off the record. 3 * * * 4 (Brief break) 5 * * * 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 7 is 6:08 p.m., we are back on the record. 8 BY MR. ROBON:

9 Q. I wanted to follow up on one thought 10 with regard to that October -- or, I'm sorry, the 11 August 24, '07, meeting with Rich, Rita, Wilcox,

12 Brown, Craig Walker and yourself. If his

13 contract had not been signed since the term

14 sheet, which was December 8 of '06, that would be 15 now nine months later, eight months later, what

16 did you do, what do you believe you did in waving 17 a magic wand to get Rich to sign that contract 18 that day? 19 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 20 form of the question. 21 A. I don't believe I did anything to 22 wave a magic wand. I believe that the contract 23 should have been memorialized before that, and it 24 was simply completed at that time. It had been

Page 350 1 agreed to in December, and we were able to make 2 some improvements to it that were requested by 3 Mr. Rodriguez. And I didn't, I didn't feel that 4 I did anything to wave a magic wand. 5 BY MR. ROBON: 6 Q. The recollection of Rita and Rich is 7 that he gave you a number of 200,000 to 250,000, 8 for the assisting coaches, at the meeting after

9 the blessing of the field, and you indicated you 10 didn't recall you ever had a number from the

11 coach.

12 A. I don't recall that number.

13 Q. You don't deny that they gave you

14 that number.

15 A. I don't recall them ever giving me

16 that number. I recall asking for numbers, from

17 time to time, but I don't recall ever getting a 18 number as to the assisting coaches pool. 19 Q. But weren't you looking for 20 individual numbers on coaches, as opposed to a 21 pool number? 22 A. I was looking for any information 23 that I could connect up to the premise that the 24 assistant coaches were underpaid.

Page 351 1 Q. Didn't the coach's performance 2 indicate that he was performing to a very high 3 level? 4 A. His performance, and the contract 5 that he was awarded, both indicated that, yes. 6 Q. He was already in a top-ten program 7 before you became president-elect, correct? 8 A. We had been in the top ten before,

9 yes, before I became president-elect. 10 Q. What did you do, what did you mean

11 when you say you would enhance the program?

12 A. I don't recall ever saying I enhanced 13 the program.

14 Q. The athletic program.

15 A. I don't recall saying I ever enhanced 16 the athletic program.

17 Q. Are you saying you didn't? 18 A. I didn't say that I did or I didn't. 19 I didn't testify to it, and you suggested that I 20 did. 21 Q. So there's no plus or minus, from 22 your perspective, to the athletic program, during 23 your one year in office. 24 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the

Page 352 1 form of the question. 2 A. I disagree with that. I think I have 3 been completely committed to the athletic 4 program, at all levels, and that was indicated to 5 me more than once by Mr. Rodriguez, and has been 6 by other coaches, from the support standpoint, 7 either symbolically or directly. 8 BY MR. ROBON:

9 Q. At that meeting that you had on 10 Saturday night --

11 A. But -- let me interrupt, I very much

12 apologize for doing so.

13 As I stated earlier, there are a few

14 other pretty important parts to a major

15 land-grant university, like the academic mission, 16 that occasionally takes up a president's time.

17 Q. But you do agree with me that an 18 athletic program can give the University wide, 19 wide publicity? 20 A. Have always been supportive of 21 athletics, and have said many times publicly that 22 they are not mutually exclusive from academics. 23 I've had that discussion with Mr. Rodriguez, that 24 I recall, that he was pleased by that.

Page 353 1 But I wish to remind you, since all 2 of your questions have been related to athletics, 3 that I did have a few other duties as president 4 of a large land-grant university. 5 Q. I'm very aware of that. 6 Going back to the December 15 meeting 7 at your home, when the coach asked for a 8 commitment for these promises, you said, "No, no,

9 we're working on it," you never gave him the 10 option by saying, "I'll have it completed by a

11 particular date," did you?

12 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the

13 form of the question, it misstates the testimony.

14 A. I didn't say, as you just described. 15 And, again, as I stated earlier, there were not

16 terribly coherent requests. I knew that there

17 were issues that Mr. Rodriguez was interested in, 18 and I said to him that we would continue to work 19 on those issues. 20 BY MR. ROBON: 21 Q. But you didn't say they would be 22 accomplished, ever? 23 A. I didn't say they wouldn't. I've 24 said that we will continue to work on those

Page 354 1 issues. I was very surprised to discover that he 2 had had what appeared to be a meeting to finalize 3 a contract at the University of Michigan the day 4 before. 5 Q. And he didn't. 6 MR. FLAHERTY: Is that a 7 question? 8 MR. WAKEFIELD: That he had a

9 meeting? 10 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: Are

11 you testifying?

12 MR. ROBON: I'm just telling

13 him he didn't have a meeting to finalize any

14 contract.

15 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: Well, 16 you're testifying, Mr. Robon. I'll take your

17 deposition, I'm ready to go. 18 19 BY MR. ROBON: 20 Q. I believe you testified that Ed 21 Pastilong was not involved, or was involved in 22 the latest Huggins contract, exhibit number -- 23 A. I testified that he was. 24 Q. He was, right?

Page 355 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Can you tell me in what way he was 3 involved. 4 A. We had a number of discussions with 5 him about the contract, met with him at length 6 on, throughout the week or weeks leading up to 7 the signing of the contract, and he, he announced 8 the contract on Friday afternoon, whenever that

9 date was it was signed. 10 Q. Is it fair to say that you negotiated 11 or Craig Walker negotiated the contract with

12 Coach Huggins, and Pastilong signed it?

13 A. No, it's not fair to say that. Our

14 counsel was involved with Coach Huggins'

15 agent/counsel to finalize the terms of the

16 contract, which came out of a discussion to sign

17 his original contract. 18 Q. Is it fair to say that you and Craig 19 Walker were involved? 20 A. I think it's fair to say we were 21 involved, and I was at least knowledgeable about 22 what was happening, yes. 23 Q. Did Pastilong, at one time, say he 24 didn't want to sign the Huggins contract?

Page 356 1 A. Not that I recall. I believe he 2 indicated that he wanted to continue to review 3 the terms, and I don't recall him ever flatly 4 saying he didn't want to sign it. 5 Q. You've inferred that you were unhappy 6 with the media, the way they handled the Heather 7 Bresch matter. 8 A. I didn't infer that at all.

9 Q. Are you unhappy with the media? 10 A. I said earlier, as you asked me about 11 the media, that I don't give it a lot of thought.

12 Q. Well, when the media put your name in 13 the paper, like they did with Rich Rodriguez, it

14 can have a negative impact, correct?

15 A. I suppose if you give any credence to 16 what the media says, you would feel that way.

17 Q. Do you understand how Rich now feels 18 upset by the comments in the media by the 19 shredding incident and other things? 20 MR. FLAHERTY: Object to the 21 form. 22 A. I wouldn't begin to imagine how he 23 might feel about those things, and he's perfectly 24 entitled to feel however he feels about them.

Page 357 1 BY MR. ROBON: 2 Q. Had you drafted a response to this 3 letter of June 3, 2008, to the secretary of the 4 Board of Governors, Exhibit RRR? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Do you intend to do that? 7 A. No. 8 MR. ROBON: End of depo.

9 MR. FLAHERTY: No, it isn't, 10 there's a couple things we want to go through.

11 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS:

12 You've mentioned the grand jury, and I didn't, we 13 didn't object at that time. But are you

14 representing there was some grand jury that's

15 been impanelled?

16 MR. ROBON: No. No, I just

17 wanted to know if there was. 18 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: 19 Because we have, there's absolutely no evidence 20 of any grand jury when you asked the question, I 21 just -- 22 MR. ROBON: You know, it's 23 like asking someone -- 24 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: I

Page 358 1 just don't want it misinterpreted in the record 2 that there's some grand jury, because there is 3 none, and you've agreed with that. 4 MR. ROBON: I don't know if 5 there is or not. 6 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: To 7 your knowledge then, right? 8 MR. ROBON: I'm unaware.

9 MR. WAKEFIELD: The questions 10 were phrased to insinuate that there might be a

11 grand jury investigation.

12 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: We

13 just don't want anyone misinterpreting, there's

14 absolutely no evidence of anything like that.

15 All right.

16 And you agree with that, that there's 17 no evidence, to your knowledge. 18 MR. ROBON: I have no 19 knowledge. 20 MR. R.P. FITZSIMMONS: All 21 right. 22 * * * 23 24

Page 359 1 E X A M I N A T I O N 2 BY MR. FLAHERTY: 3 Q. President Garrison, let me ask you a 4 couple of follow-up questions. I'm going to try 5 to take them in a chronological sequence of your 6 involvement, beginning with when you became a 7 nominee for president. 8 You responded, probably eight or nine

9 hours ago, to a question from Mr. Robon, in a way 10 that I thought was really modest, when he asked

11 you why you, why do you think you were selected

12 as president of the University. You very

13 modestly said something to the effect, "Well, I

14 really don't know."

15 You aren't suggesting you aren't

16 qualified to be president of West Virginia

17 University, are you? 18 A. No, to the contrary. I, I don't know 19 everything that the search committee and the 20 Board based its decision on, but I know that my 21 candidacy was one of a nontraditional president, 22 I'm a nonacademic candidate, and was a 23 nonacademic candidate. 24 But I have a great love for the

Page 360 1 University, and I, I felt that I could contribute 2 greatly to the University in a way that my skill 3 set would be well suited for work at the 4 legislature, work from a managerial style, that I 5 have as a collaborative one, and one that is 6 open. And the Board, I believe, liked that, 7 obviously, and we had some great success because 8 of that this year.

9 So I did not mean to suggest that I 10 had no idea or I didn't know what the Board was

11 thinking, but I simply was not in the room when

12 the decision was made, is more of what I was

13 trying to say.

14 Q. Mr. Robon spent a great deal of time

15 today talking about the Heather Bresch matter,

16 your relationship with Ms. Bresch, and your

17 activity as a registered lobbyist, under 18 West Virginia law, for Mylan Pharmaceuticals. 19 Let me ask you point-blank, under 20 oath: Did you at any time ask anyone, either 21 directly or indirectly, to award Heather Bresch a 22 degree? 23 A. I did not. 24 Q. Did you at any time infer to anyone,

Page 361 1 directly or indirectly, that Heather Bresch 2 should receive an MBA? 3 A. I did not. 4 MR. ROBON: Objection. 5 Let me make an objection before you 6 answer. 7 BY MR. FLAHERTY: 8 Q. Did you at any time, either directly

9 or indirectly, as president of West Virginia 10 University, communicate to anyone in any manner

11 that Heather Bresch should be treated with some

12 favoritism because either you knew her from high

13 school, she was a COO of Mylan Pharmaceuticals,

14 and/or she was the governor of Joe Manchin -- or

15 that she was the daughter of Joe Manchin, III?

16 MR. ROBON: Objection.

17 A. I did not, at any time. 18 19 BY MR. FLAHERTY: 20 Q. When you went to meet with 21 Mr. Rodriguez, Mrs. Rodriguez, Mr. Wilcox and 22 Mr. Brown on August 24, 2007, the meeting that 23 resulted in the signing of the second amendment 24 to the employment agreement, you knew that there

Page 362 1 had been contract negotiations that had been 2 ongoing long before you became president; is that 3 correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. And did you also know that the 6 contract was a result of negotiations that 7 occurred between Mr. Rodriguez's lawyer, Bennett 8 Speyer; his representatives, including a sports

9 agent, Mr. Brown; his financial advisor, 10 Mr. Wilcox; and had gone on over a period of

11 months? Were you aware of that when you went to

12 that meeting?

13 MR. ROBON: Objection.

14 A. I became aware of that, yes, sir.

15 BY MR. FLAHERTY:

16 Q. Were you also aware that Mr. Speyer

17 had advised counsel for the University, 18 Ms. Cisco, that all of the language of the second 19 amendment to the employment agreement had been 20 agreed upon, and that was communication from 21 Mr. Speyer, Mr. Rodriguez's attorney? 22 A. That was my understanding. 23 MR. ROBON: Wait a minute, 24 I'm going to object to that. Do you have

Page 363 1 evidence of that? 2 MR. FLAHERTY: Yeah. Read 3 the e-mails. 4 MR. ROBON: Why don't you 5 provide that to us. 6 MR. FLAHERTY: They have been 7 provided to you, a long time ago. There's an 8 e-mail from Mr. Speyer that says just that, all

9 contract language has been agreed upon. 10 MR. ROBON: And what date is

11 that?

12 MR. FLAHERTY: You know, I'm

13 not here to answer your questions. I'm going to

14 ask this guy questions. You've had ten hours of

15 it.

16 MR. ROBON: Show an

17 objection. 18 MR. WAKEFIELD: August 21. 19 BY MR. FLAHERTY: 20 Q. Is it your understanding when you 21 went over there on August 24 that the contract 22 terms were agreed upon beforehand and his 23 representatives, Mr. Rodriguez's representatives, 24 had indicated that he was willing to sign?

Page 364 1 A. That was my understanding, yes. 2 MR. ROBON: Objection. 3 BY MR. FLAHERTY: 4 Q. Did the second amendment that was 5 signed on August 24 contain any benefits to 6 Mr. Rodriguez that went beyond what was in the 7 December 8, 2006, term sheet? 8 MR. ROBON: Objection.

9 A. Yes. 10 BY MR. FLAHERTY:

11 Q. Do you recall what those were?

12 A. I recall that they were a reduction

13 of the liquidated damages clause, in a year, that 14 would reduce it down more than it was in the

15 original term sheet; I recall that there was a

16 payback provision that was more, gave a period of 17 time to pay back; and there was deferred 18 compensation added. 19 Q. On August 24, did you in any way 20 attempt to fraudulently induce Rich Rodriguez to 21 sign a document? 22 MR. ROBON: Objection. 23 A. I did not. 24 BY MR. FLAHERTY:

Page 365 1 Q. On August 24, do you believe you, in 2 fact, fraudulently induced Rich Rodriguez to sign 3 a document that he didn't want to sign? 4 MR. ROBON: Objection. 5 A. I did not. I do not believe that. 6 BY MR. FLAHERTY: 7 Q. Do you believe Mr. Walker in any way 8 fraudulently induced any action by Mr. Rodriguez

9 on August 24 of 2007? 10 A. I do not.

11 Q. You indicated that Mr. Rodriguez came 12 to your house on December 15, after he had met

13 with the University of Michigan in Toledo, and

14 had met with Mr. Robon and his lawyer partner in

15 Toledo. And you've related that conversation.

16 Mr. Robon, I think you responded to

17 him that Mr. Rodriguez didn't ask for any 18 additional money for himself that evening, 19 correct? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. Did he make it clear to you, however, 22 that the University of Michigan was paying him 23 more than was being paid under his contract by 24 West Virginia University?

Page 366 1 MR. ROBON: Objection. 2 A. There was an indication that there 3 was an offer from Michigan, and I believe it was 4 stated it was two-and-a-half million dollars. 5 But I don't know, I don't know what the number 6 was. 7 BY MR. FLAHERTY: 8 Q. You indicated, in the discussions

9 with Mr. Rodriguez that evening, that you talked 10 about what you believed was a special opportunity 11 and a special place that existed at West Virginia 12 because of his, his ties to it as a resident, as

13 a player, as being his home state and his home

14 university. And you indicated that he made a

15 statement in response to that. What was the

16 statement, specifically?

17 A. There was a series, or were a series 18 of statements -- 19 MR. McGINLEY: Asked and 20 answered. 21 A. -- that surprised me, that indicated 22 from Mr. Rodriguez that he no longer, or did not 23 feel that West Virginia was, quote, "so F'ing 24 special." And that because of the outpouring of

Page 367 1 what he felt was negativity after the December 1 2 game, that he was very dejected by that. 3 I don't feel that way. I didn't feel 4 that way. I do agree that the negativity was, in 5 large part, unfounded. But I was, I disagreed 6 strongly with that statement, and I do today. 7 MR. FLAHERTY: We have no 8 further questions.

9 However, let me state for the record, 10 counsel, that during the course of today's

11 deposition, Mr. Rodriguez has taken a great deal

12 of notes. We ask you to preserve those notes,

13 and counsel take possession of those notes and

14 preserve them under your duties under the Code of 15 Professional Responsibility, as a potential

16 document that was recorded recollection, and

17 would be a hearsay exception under Rule 803, and 18 to be determined whether, later, whether it's 19 discoverable, privileged or otherwise. But I 20 want them preserved and not destroyed or 21 shredded. 22 MR. McGINLEY: Let me talk. 23 I don't agree with you that it's at 24 all discoverable.

Page 368 1 MR. FLAHERTY: I didn't say 2 that it was. 3 MR. McGINLEY: Okay, very 4 good. 5 MR. FLAHERTY: I said it's a 6 recorded recollection that may well become 7 discoverable, excepting -- 8 MR. McGINLEY: Wait a second.

9 MR. R. P. FITZSIMMONS: I 10 don't want you to destroy them.

11 MR. McGINLEY: Wait a second. 12 Can I finish, please?

13 MR. FLAHERTY: Sure, go

14 ahead.

15 MR. McGINLEY: You're

16 assuming that it's a recorded recollection, and

17 that's not necessarily true. 18 MR. WAKEFIELD: We don't 19 know, we have to -- 20 MR. McGINLEY: That's 21 correct, and that's what I want to put on the 22 record, that you can't insist on something that's 23 not what you say it is. 24 MR. FLAHERTY: What I said it

Page 369 1 was is it may be a recorded recollection, because 2 it was taken by Mr. Rodriguez during the course 3 of answers by Mr. Garrison, that may well become 4 a recorded recollection under Rule 803, an 5 exception of hearsay. Well, I'm simply asking 6 you to preserve them. 7 MR. McGINLEY: We'll take 8 your request under advisement.

9 MR. FLAHERTY: Well, and we 10 will treat it as a spoilation issue if, in fact,

11 those are destroyed or shredded.

12 MR. McGINLEY: You can treat

13 it however you like to treat it, I'm taking your

14 request under advisement.

15 MR. FLAHERTY: Thank you.

16 MR. ROBON: I'd like to go

17 off the record for one minute, I want to check on 18 one thing before we -- 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 20 is 6:26 p.m., we are going off the record. 21 * * * 22 (Brief break) 23 * * * 24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time

Page 370 1 is 6:29 p.m., we are back on the record. 2 * * * 3 E X A M I N A T I O N 4 BY MR. ROBON: 5 Q. Your attorney asked a question of you 6 about the August 24, 2007, meeting, whether you 7 fraudulently induced Coach Rodriguez to sign the 8 second amendment to the employment contract. Do

9 you recall that? 10 A. I do.

11 Q. Do you recall, however, that that

12 meeting lasted somewhere between an

13 hour-and-a-half and three-and-a-half hours,

14 depending on who you talk to?

15 A. I didn't say that, you did.

16 Q. How long do you think it lasted?

17 A. I said it was -- 18 MR. FLAHERTY: Asked and 19 answered. 20 A. It was, I'm sorry, between an 21 hour-and-a-half and two hours. 22 BY MR. ROBON: 23 Q. But during that hour-and-a-half to 24 two hours, you made a number of statements; is

Page 371 1 that not correct, to Coach Rodriguez? 2 A. I'm sure we all made a number of 3 statements during that hour-and-a-half to two 4 hours. I listened to a lot of statements as 5 well. 6 Q. And at the conclusion of that 7 hour-and-a-half to two hours, Coach Rodriguez, in 8 fact, inked or signed that addendum when you

9 requested he do so. 10 A. He signed it during that meeting.

11 Q. At the end.

12 A. Close to the end, I don't know if it

13 was the very end, but it certainly was closer to

14 the end than the beginning.

15 Q. Thank you.

16 MR. ROBON: Nothing further.

17 MR. FLAHERTY: We'll read and 18 sign. 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time 20 is 6:30 p.m., this concludes this deposition and 21 tape seven. 22 * * * 23 (Whereupon, this deposition 24 was concluded at 6:30 p.m.)

Page 372 1 * * * 2 (Whereupon, signature was not 3 waived by the witness.) 4 * * * 5 6 7 8

9 10

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Page 373 1 THE STATE OF : WEST VIRGINIA : 2 : SS: C E R T I F I C A T E COUNTY OF OHIO: : 3 I, CONNIE M. NICHOLS, Court Reporter and 4 Notary Public within and for the State of West Virginia, duly commissioned and qualified, 5 do hereby certify that the within-named witness, MICHAEL GARRISON, was by me first duly sworn to 6 testify to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in the cause aforesaid; and the 7 testimony then given by the witness was by me reduced to stenotype in the presence of the 8 witness; afterwards reduced to Computer Aided Transcription under my direction and control; 9 that the foregoing is a true and correct transcription of the testimony given by said 10 witness. 11 I do further certify that this testimony was taken at the time and place in the foregoing 12 caption specified, and was completed without adjournment. 13 I do further certify that I am not a 14 relative, counsel or attorney of either party, or otherwise interested in the event of this action. 15 IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set 16 my hand and affixed my seal of office at Wheeling, West Virginia, on the _____ day of 17 ______, 2008. 18 19 ______CONNIE M. NICHOLS 20 Court Reporter and Notary Public within and for 21 the State of West Virginia 22 23 My commission expires: October 16, 2016 24

STRESKI REPORTING & VIDEO 1-800-659-2249 Wheeling, WV Morgantown, WV Charleston, WV Steubenville, OH Pittsburgh, PA