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Wednesday Volume 627 19 July 2017 No. 20 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday 19 July 2017 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2017 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 819 19 JULY 2017 820 and his colleagues not ashamed of voting against removing House of Commons the public sector pay cap in England to help workers there? What does he have against English workers? Wednesday 19 July 2017 David Mundell: From that question, Mr Speaker, you would not think that since 2007 the SNP Government The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock in Scotland have been responsible for public sector pay and that a public sector pay cap has applied for most of PRAYERS that time. As far as I am aware, the SNP Government have not lifted the public sector pay freeze in Scotland; they have announced a consultation. [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP): May I put ROYAL ASSENT on record the fact that the Scottish women’s football team will play an important European championship Mr Speaker: I have to notify the House, in accordance match tonight? I wish them all the best in their endeavours. with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that the Queen has I do not think the Secretary of State fully appreciates signified her Royal Assent to the following Act: the sense of grievance about the pay cap among hard- Supply and Appropriation (Main Estimates) Act 2017. working public sector workers in Scotland. The Scottish Government have declared their intention to review and BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS end the pay cap; will he argue in the United Kingdom Government for the same policy? AVON FIRE AND RESCUE AUTHORITY Resolved, David Mundell: May I first welcome the hon. Gentleman That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, That to his new place? When the new SNP leader at Westminster she will be graciously pleased to give directions that there be laid said that he was reluctant, I did not realise that he was before this House a Return of a Paper, entitled Statutory Inspection going to be reluctant to do Scottish questions, or that of Avon Fire and Rescue Authority, dated 19 July 2017.—(Craig he was going to downgrade them. Whittaker.) I am clear that hard decisions have to be taken on public sector pay. If the Scottish Government, in their responsibilities, are saying that they are going to increase Oral Answers to Questions public sector pay, they have to identify where the funds are coming from. SCOTLAND Tommy Sheppard: I thank the Secretary of State for his kind words, but he and I will get on a lot better in this process if he does me the courtesy of answering the The Secretary of State was asked— question. I asked him to state his intention to argue within Cabinet and the British Government to end the Barnett Formula: Public Sector Pay Cap pay cap in Scotland so that workers in the public sector there will get the same rate of pay for the job, whether 1. Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) they work for the Scottish Government or for his (SNP): What assessment he has made of the effect of Government. the removal of the public sector pay cap in Scotland on the Barnett formula if that cap is retained in England. [900486] David Mundell: I think I did answer the hon. Gentleman’s question. The Government have struck the right balance The Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell): on pay and ensuring continued employment. We see Mr Speaker, I am sure you will join me in congratulating that in Scotland, where we have the lowest unemployment Jamie Murray in the mixed doubles and Gordon Reid figures on record. It is better that more people are in in the wheelchair doubles for ensuring that we again work in the public sector than that we had changed the had Scottish champions at Wimbledon, where your public sector pay cap in previous years. enthusiasm for tennis was in evidence once again. The Barnett formula applies to changes in UK Lesley Laird (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Lab): I, Government funding and will not be impacted by Scottish too, send my best wishes to the Scottish women’s football Government decisions on public sector pay. team for tonight. I also congratulate our tennis players Angus Brendan MacNeil: The Secretary of State’s on a wonderful tournament. constituents, and mine, have benefited from the Scottish It is a pity that the SNP has bounced Labour’s National party Government’s ending of the public sector proposal on lifting the public sector pay cap in November. pay cap for their public sector workers in Scotland. The Will the Secretary of State tell me what assessment has SNP tried to help public sector workers in England and been made of the effect of the Government’s pay cap on throughout the UK by voting to end the UK public the living standards of public sector employees in Scotland? sector pay cap too. However, Scottish Tory MPs voted Does he share the view of the Chancellor, who was against helping workers in England. With the SNP recently reported to have said that public sector workers helping workers in his constituency and mine, are he are overpaid? 821 Oral Answers 19 JULY 2017 Oral Answers 822 David Mundell: I welcome the hon. Lady to her place Bambos Charalambous: As yet, no equality impact and congratulate her on her success in the election. I assessment of the closures has been published. Will the also send my best wishes to her predecessor, Dave Secretary of State tell this House whether the Government Anderson, who was one of the Members who voluntarily plan to publish such an assessment, and, if so, when? left this Parliament at the last election. Of course, I pass on my best wishes to the Scottish women’s football team Damian Hinds: In making these decisions, the as I should have done in answer to the question of the Department has fulfilled its duties under the Equality hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Tommy Sheppard). I Act 2010 and paid due regard to the impact of the agree with the Chancellor that we have struck the right proposals on the staff, and the communities and customers balance in public sector pay on the basis that we have that they serve. ensured that 200,000 public sector jobs were able to be maintained during this period of difficult fiscal conditions. Alex Norris: Given that UK Government cuts to social security and new sanctions on low-paid workers Lesley Laird: I thank the Secretary of State for his are likely to increase demand for jobcentres, do Ministers answer, but it is very clear that the Government are in agree that it is reckless and perverse of the Government complete chaos on this issue, which is very much like to be closing them down, especially in our most deprived the SNP Government, who claim that they will abandon communities that have some of the highest rates of the public sector pay cap—[Interruption.]—despite voting unemployment? it down in a proposal in May. Is it not the case that public sector workers in Scotland are being let down by two weak and wobbly Governments who have the wrong Damian Hinds: I reassure the hon. Gentleman that, priorities, and that only a Labour Government have the of course, in looking forward in time to our future policies and the political will to lift the public sector pay needs, we plan for the expected demand on jobcentres cap, ban austerity, stand up for public sector workers and allow for some contingency as well. I also reassure and stand up for Scotland? him that the rate of sanctions has been coming down. As we are in Scottish questions, it is particularly relevant David Mundell: Although I might be tempted to to note that the rate of sanctions in Scotland is lower agree with the hon. Lady’s comments on the SNP than it is in the rest of the UK. Scottish Government, the position with Labour is absolutely clear in that no funds have been identified to increase Faisal Rashid: May I ask the Minister whether he and public sector pay. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has his colleagues will consider the term in which the excess made it very clear that, if we want to make a real fares allowance will be paid to Department for Work difference on public sector pay, we have to do something and Pensions staff across Scotland who are being forced that hits everybody—put a penny or two on the rates of to move office? The Department has refused to use its income tax or VAT or something such as that. We discretion to pay the EFA for five years, and will cover cannot make a big difference just taxing the rich. The staff for only three years, which contrasts with previous Labour party in Scotland and here in Westminster has decisions made by the Department. the soundbites, but it does not have the policies to deliver what it is promising. Damian Hinds: We do think that we have a fair and reasonable approach to relocation. Of course we are Jobcentre Closures asking some staff to move offices, and we try to do everything we can to facilitate that. Part of that is 2. Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab): providing the excess fares policy that the hon.