September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8595 Boyd Hilleary Quinn Kildee Mink Schakowsky MOTION TO INSTRUCT CONFEREES Brady (TX) Hobson Radanovich Kilpatrick Moakley Scott Bryant Hoekstra Ramstad Kind (WI) Mollohan Serrano ON H.R. 1501, JUVENILE JUSTICE Burr Horn Regula King (NY) Moore Sherman REFORM ACT OF 1999 Reynolds Kleczka Morella Shows Burton Hostettler Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. Buyer Houghton Riley Klink Murtha Skelton Callahan Hulshof Rogan Kucinich Nadler Slaughter Speaker, I rise to offer a privileged mo- Calvert Hunter Rogers LaFalce Napolitano Smith (WA) tion to instruct conferees on the bill Camp Hutchinson Rohrabacher Lampson Neal Snyder (H.R. 1501) to amend the Omnibus Canady Hyde Ros-Lehtinen Lantos Nethercutt Spratt Cannon Isakson Roukema Larson Oberstar Stabenow Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of Castle Istook Royce Lee Obey Stark 1968 to provide grants to ensure in- Chabot Jenkins Ryan (WI) Levin Olver Strickland creased accountability for juvenile of- Chambliss John Ryun (KS) Lewis (GA) Ortiz Stupak fenders; to amend the Juvenile Justice Coburn Johnson (CT) Salmon Lipinski Owens Tauscher Collins Johnson, Sam Sanford Lofgren Pallone Terry and Delinquency Prevention Act of 1974 Combest Jones (NC) Saxton Lowey Pascrell Thompson (CA) to provide quality prevention programs Condit Kasich Schaffer Luther Pastor Thompson (MS) and accountability programs relating Cook Kelly Sensenbrenner Maloney (CT) Paul Thurman Cooksey Kingston Sessions Maloney (NY) Payne Tierney to juvenile delinquency; and for other Cox Knollenberg Shadegg Markey Pelosi Towns purposes. Cramer Kolbe Shaw Martinez Phelps Traficant The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Crane Kuykendall Shays Mascara Pickett Turner LAHOOD). The Clerk will report the mo- Cubin LaHood Sherwood Matsui Pomeroy Udall (CO) Cunningham Largent Shimkus McCarthy (MO) Price (NC) Udall (NM) tion. Danner Latham Shuster McCarthy (NY) Rahall Velazquez The Clerk read as follows: Davis (VA) LaTourette Simpson McDermott Rangel Vento Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York moves that Deal Lazio Sisisky McGovern Reyes Visclosky the managers on the part of the House at the Skeen McIntyre Rivers Waters DeLay Leach conference on the disagreeing votes of the DeMint Lewis (CA) Smith (MI) McKinney Rodriguez Watt (NC) Dickey Lewis (KY) Smith (NJ) McNulty Roemer Waxman two Houses on the Senate amendment to the Dooley Linder Smith (TX) Meehan Rothman Weiner bill, H.R. 1501, be instructed to insist that— Dreier LoBiondo Souder Meek (FL) Roybal-Allard Wexler (1) the committee of conference should this Duncan Lucas (KY) Spence Meeks (NY) Rush Weygand week have its first substantive meeting to Dunn Lucas (OK) Stearns Menendez Sabo Wise offer amendments and motions, including Ehlers Manzullo Stenholm Millender- Sanchez Woolsey gun safety amendments and motions; and Ehrlich McCollum Stump McDonald Sanders Wu (2) the committee of conference should Sununu Miller, George Sandlin Wynn Emerson McCrery meet every weekday in public session until Everett McHugh Sweeney Minge Sawyer Ewing McInnis Talent the committee of conference agrees to rec- Fletcher McIntosh Tancredo NOT VOTING—4 ommend a substitute. Fossella McKeon Tanner Coble Jefferson The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursu- Fowler Metcalf Tauzin Holden Scarborough Franks (NJ) Mica Taylor (MS) ant to clause 7, rule XXII, the gentle- woman from New York (Mrs. MCCAR- Frelinghuysen Miller (FL) Taylor (NC) b 1604 Gallegly Miller, Gary Thomas THY) and the gentleman from Illinois Thornberry Gekas Moran (KS) Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina (Mr. HYDE) each will control 30 min- Gibbons Moran (VA) Thune Gilchrest Myrick Tiahrt changed his vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ utes. Gillmor Ney Toomey So the bill was passed. The Chair recognizes the gentle- Goode Northup Upton The result of the vote was announced woman from New York (Mrs. MCCAR- Goodlatte Norwood Vitter as above recorded. THY). Goodling Nussle Walden Gordon Ose Walsh A motion to reconsider was laid on Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. Goss Oxley Wamp the table. Speaker, I yield myself such time as I Granger Packard Watkins may consume. Green (WI) Pease Watts (OK) f Mr. Speaker, today I offer a motion Gutknecht Peterson (MN) Weldon (FL) Hall (TX) Peterson (PA) Weldon (PA) to instruct the conferees on H.R. 1501 Hansen Petri Weller ANNOUNCEMENT OF INTENTION TO to meet publicly, beginning this week, Hastings (WA) Pickering Whitfield OFFER MOTION TO INSTRUCT and every weekday until we reach a Wicker Hayes Pitts CONFEREES ON H.R. 1501, JUVE- conference agreement. Hayworth Pombo Wilson NILE JUSTICE REFORM ACT OF Hefley Porter Wolf Stated more simply, my colleagues Herger Portman Young (AK) 1999 and I are asking that we move forward Hill (MT) Pryce (OH) Young (FL) Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. Speaker, pur- with the conference on the juvenile jus- NOES—207 suant to clause 7(c) of rule XXII, I tice bill. The motion is not offered as a hereby announce my intention to offer criticism. I understand that the chair- Abercrombie Clyburn Ford Ackerman Conyers Frank (MA) a motion to instruct conferees on H.R. man and the ranking member of the Allen Costello Frost 1501 tomorrow. Committee on the Judiciary have met Andrews Coyne Ganske The form of the motion is as follows: in an attempt several times to reach a Baird Crowley Gejdenson compromise on the gun provisions in Baldacci Cummings Gephardt Mr. DOOLITTLE moves that the managers Baldwin Davis (FL) Gilman on the part of the House at the conference on the juvenile justice bill. Barrett (WI) Davis (IL) Gonzalez the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on The chairman and the ranking mem- Becerra DeFazio Graham the Senate amendments to the bill H.R. 1501 ber have worked very hard on this im- Bentsen DeGette Green (TX) to be instructed to insist that the conference Berkley Delahunt Greenwood portant legislation, and we do appre- report not include Senate provisions that— ciate all the efforts that they have Berman DeLauro Gutierrez (1) do not recognize that the second amend- Berry Deutsch Hall (OH) ment to the Constitution protect the indi- made. Bishop Diaz-Balart Hastings (FL) However, we cannot afford to wait for Blagojevich Dicks Hill (IN) vidual right of American citizens to keep and Blumenauer Dingell Hilliard bear arms; and the completion of behind-closed-door Bonior Dixon Hinchey (2) impose unconstitutional restrictions on negotiations while the threat of gun vi- Borski Doggett Hinojosa the second amendment rights of individuals. olence hangs over the heads of our Boswell Doolittle Hoeffel schoolchildren throughout America. Brady (PA) Doyle Holt f Brown (FL) Edwards Hooley Every day Congress fails to advance ju- Brown (OH) Engel Hoyer venile justice legislation is another Campbell English Inslee SUNDRY MESSAGES FROM THE day that we lose 13 children to gun vio- Capps Eshoo Jackson (IL) PRESIDENT Capuano Etheridge Jackson-Lee lence. Cardin Evans (TX) Sundry messages in writing from the Despite the assurances of the chair- Carson Farr Johnson, E. B. President of the United States were man and the ranking member, a num- Chenoweth Fattah Jones (OH) communicated to the House by Mr. ber of my colleagues and I remain con- Clay Filner Kanjorski Clayton Foley Kaptur Sherman Williams, one of his secre- cerned about the outcome of the juve- Clement Forbes Kennedy taries. nile justice bill. Since the April 20 H8596 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE September 23, 1999 shooting at Columbine High School We will get a text, and then we can all Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of mobilized the American people to pres- study it and decide whether it is some- my time. sure Congress into addressing the thing we can support or not, and move Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. issues of children’s access to guns, we forward. Speaker, I yield 31⁄2 minutes to the gen- have faced a number of roadblocks and But we are doing our best. There may tlewoman from California (Ms. delays. I fear the delays we have faced be others who could do better. Unfortu- LOFGREN). have been caused by the congressional nately, they are not in positions of au- (Ms. LOFGREN asked and was given leadership’s reluctance to enact mean- thority. I am very satisfied that the permission to revise and extend her re- ingful gun safety legislation. gentleman from New York (Mr. CON- marks.) Our motion today is offered as an in- YERS) is serious and working and try- Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Speaker, the con- centive to move forward and complete ing to be helpful, and is helpful, and I ference committee on this item has our legislation. Let us listen to the believe he feels the same about our met just once, formally. That was on American people and protect our chil- side. August 3. I am a member of that con- dren. I will vote no on this, simply because ference committee, as is my colleague, Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of I think it sets out to do something that the maker of the motion here today. my time. is not within our competence; that is, At that meeting, and this is only the Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- to tell the Senator to call meetings second time I have been on a con- self such time as I may consume. every day. I am sure he will call them ference committee, but we made state- (Mr. HYDE asked and was given per- when we are ready to offer something ments at this meeting. I did, too; we all mission to revise and extend his re- that can be voted on, and I just assure did. At the conclusion of the state- marks.) the gentlewoman, we are inching closer ments made by all the Members of the Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I do not dis- and closer and closer. I do not think it Senate and all the Members of the agree with the gentlewoman from New is going to be a matter of days, even, House who were present, I tried to offer York. I am a little puzzled by the for- until we are ready with a product that a motion that we would continue to mulation in the motion to instruct, be- we can all vote up-or-down on. work and to try and get something sub- cause we have nothing to do with the Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of stantive done. calling of the meetings of the con- my time. b 1615 ferees. The chairman is the Senator Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. from Utah, and he has the gavel. He Speaker, I yield myself 30 seconds to It was ruled that that motion was can call the formal meetings. respond to the previous speaker. out of order. We could not even vote on Mr. Speaker, I would say to the gen- But we have been having informal whether we should actually begin tleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), my re- meetings every day, every morning and work. What was told to me at that spect for the gentleman is tremendous, every afternoon. We have had two time was that it was necessary for the and this is nothing personal towards today. We are working with all dis- staff to meet and that they would meet the gentleman whatsoever. It is actu- patch to try and resolve our difficul- throughout the recess; and, therefore, ally towards, unfortunately, I feel, ties. we could get this to a resolution. There were many difficulties, many some people on the other side. There was a lot of hope expressed There have been a lot of quotes in the differences, when we started out. We that, by the time, roughly, that school newspaper, one on June 19 after we had have them down to about one or two started, we would have something our defeat. ‘‘The defeat of the gun safe- now. If people want to continue to ready to go. It is now September 23, ty bill in the House is a great personal breathe down our neck and push us, and we are still not ready. victory for me,’’ from the gentleman that is fine, we are all adults and we I have listened to the discussion here from Texas (Mr. DELAY). today. I am aware and do readily be- can take it. But we are working as ex- My job is to try and bring this bill lieve that there have been discussions peditiously, as effectively, as we can. forward. If we can put any pressure, between the ranking member and the These are complicated, difficult, emo- certainly even on the Senate side, then chairman, and I commend those discus- tional issues. Many considerations that is what I have to try and do. As sions. But there is an aura of mystery have to be borne in mind. far as the gentleman goes, the gen- around this. Mr. Speaker, I would like us to meet tleman is a gentleman and I am always The other conferees, or at least I will I suppose every day in public, but I can privileged to work with him. assure the gentlewoman, if she wants a Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of speak for myself, I am not aware of the bill, let us continue to move as we are. my time. substance of what is being discussed. I I wish it could have been done yester- Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- hear various things from the press that day, but I can assure the gentlewoman self such time as I may consume. concern me greatly. I have no way of that nobody is at fault, other than the Mr. Speaker, in response to the very knowing whether those press reports complexity, the difficulties of the generous comments of the gentle- are accurate or inaccurate. issues we are dealing with. woman from New York, I appreciate But I am aware that there are some I am convinced to a moral certitude them. My admiration for her is multi- things that really do need to be in the that everybody wants a bill. Nobody plied by her admiration for me. final product, which is why I think this wants this to fail. So we are working But I would say that the gentleman motion to instruct is a good one. the best we can. I wish the gentle- from Texas (Mr. DELAY), who happens The first part of the motion directs woman would give some credence to to be the Whip, is a person of strong that we should have a substantive our good faith, as I certainly do to the feelings on this issue. He is entitled to meeting. It has been nearly 2 months gentlewoman’s. them as an elected Member. But he since we had our first meeting, and so I just do not know what to do on this. speaks for himself, not for the entire I think to have our first substantive I want to vote for it because I like the Republican side on this issue. meeting is not too much to ask so that gentlewoman, and I do not like to be This is an issue that is locally dif- we could make motions. There is one negative. On the other hand, it just ficult for some and easy for others. But motion that I would like to make, and seems pointless for us to be requiring I can assure the gentlewoman, with all it is a necessary one, and it has to do the conference to meet this week so due respect to our distinguished Whip, with high capacity clips for assault that motions, including gun safety that I can muster, he does not make weapons. amendments, could be offered. We are the sole determination, and we are pro- As we know, the Senate had a provi- working those out informally, but they ceeding, I think, effectively and effi- sion in their bill, and we of course be- are being worked out. ciently. came grid locked and did not have any- Then, we should meet every weekday I want to assuage her worries that thing on that subject. Subsequent to in public session? I would hope that we the gentleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY) all of that, on really a technicality will have an agreement, a text, very speaks for all of us. He does not on this type of thing, the Senate’s provision soon. I do not know when. But the issue. He speaks for me on a lot of was deemed inappropriate since it process is working. It is fermenting. issues, but not this one. raised revenue. So there needs to be September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8597 some kind of motion for that to be re- has one tomorrow. It is kind of becom- repeat that message with added ur- instated. ing a habit. But we are doing our best, gency. I mention this in particular because I and we are going to succeed. When the conferees met this week, think it is one thing that really does Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of and when they continue to meet, they need that attention. I am aware, as a my time. must return with loophole-free sub- matter of fact, I am proud that the Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. stantive measures to combat the gun amendment here on the House side was Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- violence that is killing our children the Hyde-Lofgren amendment. I know tlewoman from Connecticut (Ms. and turning our schools into war zones. the gentleman from Illinois (Chairman DELAURO). The American people are demanding HYDE) certainly does not oppose the Ms. DELAURO. Mr. Speaker, yester- action. Throughout my district, moth- substance of this. I think that we need day I joined with my Democratic ers approach me, children in tow, and to do this. women colleagues to call the role of ask me why on earth this Congress has Certainly the loophole that was cre- children who have died from gunfire not done more to stop the scourge of ated when Senator FEINSTEIN and oth- since the tragedy at Columbine on gun violence attacking our commu- ers pursued this a number of years ago April 20. We cannot even get through nities. They are afraid to go out on to turned out to be nothing that was an- the lists. Too many children have lost the streets of their own neighborhoods. ticipated. Millions of these high capac- their lives to senseless gun violence. They are afraid to send their kids to ity clips are coming in from foreign Five months since Columbine, and, school. They are afraid to go to church providers. still, the Republican leadership has or synagogue. They are searching for I would just say that the TEC–DC9 failed to take common-sense steps to courageous leadership from this Con- that was used in Columbine could not keep guns out of the hands of children gress. have been effective if the ammo was and criminals. Yes, that is the bipar- Instead of providing that leadership, not available. So let us get on it. Let tisan compromise that was agreed to in Congress has stalled and stonewalled us do it in public. I believe in sunshine the Senate. What are we in the House as, week after week, the death toll laws, being from California. I think, if waiting for? from gun violence rises. Who can forget we have a little sunshine on this proc- We have all watched children fleeing Littleton, Paducah, Jonesboro, Spring- ess, it will be hard for those opposed to scenes at Columbine High School, a field, Conyers, Los Angeles, and Fort hold their heads up high. Los Angeles day care center, and now a Worth? How many cities and towns Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- church in Fort Worth. Just this week across this country need to be hit with self such time as I may consume. we saw a report of a teenage girl in tragedy before something is done? Mr. Speaker, I just want to say in re- Florida who plotted to murder her en- The Senate passed a gun safety bill sponse to the remarks of the gentle- tire family but was stopped by a child which would have prevented felons from buying guns at gun shows, ban woman from California (Ms. LOFGREN) safety lock. that I certainly share her zeal for ban- But the tragedies on the news are the importation of high capacity am- ning the large clips, cartridge clips. It only the most prominent. Single munition clips, and kept guns away from children. But the House took a was her motion and mine that passed killings or accidental shootings where different route. We had a choice be- on the floor; but, unfortunately, the a child kills his brother or sister with tween the public interest and special bill to which it was attached was not a gun thought to be hidden safely in interest, and the public lost. passed. But it is a part of what we are the closet happen with sickening regu- Our bill is hollow legislation which talking about, and I do not think that larity. It all adds up to 13 American ignores the cries of victims of gun vio- is in serious dispute. children each day dying due to gunfire. lence and their families. We have an I just would like to remind the folks Yesterday morning, one of my Re- opportunity starting today to change on the other side, the gentlewoman publican colleagues suggested that ef- our ways. We have a real opportunity from New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY) and forts to keep kids and crooks from get- to save lives. The conferees must work the gentlewoman from California (Ms. ting guns were an insult to the wisdom hard to include strong gun safety LOFGREN) that this overriding part of of our Founding Fathers. Well, this measures. this is juvenile justice, the H.R. 1501, Children’s Defense Fund poster cap- Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- juvenile justice reform. We have been tures my response to that notion. It self such time as I may consume. working on that 41⁄2 years. It is that reads, ‘‘This can’t be what our Found- Mr. Speaker, I want to respond to the difficult. It has that much emotion in- ing Fathers had in mind. Children in gentlewoman (Mrs. LOWEY) for whom volved, that much philosophy, that the United States aged 15 and under my admiration is boundless. I know she much concern. So to expect us to stam- are 12 times more likely to die from does not want to be unfair; I am con- pede to a resolution now is just ill-ad- gunfire than children in 25 other indus- vinced of that. When she talked about vised. In good faith, we are doing our trialized countries combined. This is a our stalling tactics, I am somewhat be- best. We are going to succeed, in my statistic that no one can live with. It is wildered. I wish the gentlewoman opinion. time to protect children instead of would talk to the gentleman from I have talked to the gentleman from guns. With freedom comes a price. That Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) and talk to Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) at some length price should not be our children.’’ her staff, her committee staff. There is twice today. I met with him once. We Vote for this motion to instruct. Let no stalling going on. are closer than ever. Please do not us pass the common-sense compromise These are complicated, tough issues. push us off the cliff with partisanship. that was passed in the Senate. It may be clear to a committed liberal I know how easy it is. I know how Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. the way to go. I am sure it is clear to strongly my colleagues feel, how pas- Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- committed conservatives the way to sionately they feel. I share that pas- tlewoman from New York (Mrs. go. But they are in different directions. sion. LOWEY). We are trying to bring those together. But compromises are difficult. One Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Speaker, I thank We are trying to work something out. does not get everything one wants. One the gentlewoman from New York for We are doing it with all diligence, all has to make concessions. But those her courageous work on this issue. possible diligence. concessions have to be prudent. We un- I rise in strong support of this mo- May I suggest, if the gentlewoman is derstand that. That is true of both tion, and I am outraged that, once interested, and I know she is, in help- sides. again, the stalling tactics of the major- ing the gun situation throughout our I can only say my colleagues can con- ity have forced us to the floor to ad- country, spend some time on urging tinue to berate us, and I know they put dress gun safety. her administration to enforce existing a soft face on it, but they are. There is My colleagues and I have come to- gun laws. In the last 3 years, there has a predicate to what they are doing, and gether countless times over the past been one prosecution of a Brady Act that is somehow we are foot dragging. several months with the same simple violation. We have had a lot of sound Keep it up. It is all right. We will be message: Congress must pass meaning- and fury for only one prosecution. So here to respond. One of our Members ful gun safety legislation. Today, we there are things that we can do. H8598 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE September 23, 1999 But meanwhile, we are not stalling. been working on and working on and good friend’s time, I would encourage The word is foreign to us. We are mov- working on. my good friend to work as expedi- ing ahead. I would have liked to have But I want to remind the gentle- tiously as he can because, and I really solved this 2 weeks ago. I can assure woman, I do not know how many young mean this, whether I am in the super- the gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. people were killed in automobile acci- market or I am in the street, people LOWEY) nobody is stalling. dents in the period of time that she had are afraid. This is the United States of Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Speaker, will the reference to with guns, but I daresay America, and people are afraid to go to gentleman would yield? more people were killed in automobile school, afraid to go to church, afraid to Mr. HYDE. With pleasure I yield to accidents. That does not mean we go to synagogue, afraid to walk the the gentlewoman from New York. should stop people driving, but it is streets. We have the power to do some- Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Speaker, I have just a fact of life. thing. Let us make sure the Justice worked with the gentleman from Illi- Sixteen Federal laws were violated at Department enforces the laws, but if nois, and I know he is a gentlemen, and Littleton. Sixteen. Nine State laws we have the power to close some loop- I have great respect for his commit- were violated. So what is our response? holes and pass common sense gun legis- ment to moving this bill. But I would Let us heap another law on the fire. lation, let us do it. just like to remind my friend and the But, look, I am for it, notwithstanding Mr. HYDE. I am all for that. We are gentleman that we have been asking the futility, perhaps, of another law. I working on common sense gun legisla- for the commonsense gun safety legis- am working to get one, but I am just tion, and I am confident we will pass lation that passed the Senate to come suggesting to the gentlewoman these something that will better the present before this House before Memorial Day. are not easy. situation. It will not be everything the It has been quite a while. Look at the And the Senate operates differently gentlewoman wants. It probably will lives that have been lost. than we do. I think it took the Vice not be everything I would like. But it I understand that the legislation is President’s vote to get that bill out. will be useful. It will contain a clip ban complex. I would be delighted to work Happily, he cannot vote in this body. for those large clips; it will contain with the gentleman to call on the Jus- But we are doing our best. safety devices, trigger locks. It will tice Department to enforce the laws. Mr. Speaker, if the gentleman would contain a juvenile Brady. It will con- But the commonsense gun legislation continue to yield, I would just like to tain a prohibition for minors for pos- that passed the Senate could have been comment on the gun show loophole, be- sessing assault weapons. It will have brought to the floor, could have been cause I know my good colleague, the mandatory background checks that are called from the desk at any time as a gentlewoman from New York (Mrs. reasonable, including at gun shows. So, separate package. MCCARTHY), has been a leader on that, if the gentlewoman would let us do our For me, as for the gentleman from Il- and I just do not understand why that work, we will do it. linois, we understand how complex this issue is so difficult when we know that I would say, by the way, that I think is. But we also understand that there is 90 percent of the people are cleared. the gentlewoman would have made a great Senator. a madness in this country, and that Mr. HYDE. Ninety-five percent. Mrs. LOWEY. Mr. Speaker, I would parents are afraid to send their kids to Mrs. LOWEY. Ninety-five percent. So what we are saying, and what the legis- be delighted to yield back to the gen- school. tleman his time so that other people on We have to do what we can to pre- lation in the Senate is saying, 3 busi- his side can continue this discussion, vent felons from getting through that ness days, that is just for the 5 percent of the people who do not get through. and I thank the gentleman. loophole at gun shows, for example, Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the So what is wrong with that, when 95 and getting their hands on guns. balance of my time. percent get cleared in the first 24 hours So I wish the gentleman Godspeed. I Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. or less? So let us do that. wish him good luck. I would hope that Speaker, I yield 21⁄2 minutes to the gen- the juvenile justice bill could pass. Mr. HYDE. I would just say to the tleman from Illinois (Mr. gentlewoman that I have no problem But I would just like to say in con- BLAGOJEVICH). clusion to the gentleman from Illinois, with her formulation; unfortunately, Mr. BLAGOJEVICH. Mr. Speaker, let my good friend, that way before Memo- the Lautenberg amendment does much me just associate myself with all the rial Day, we have been asking for the more than that. Much more than that. wonderful things that were said by my common-sense legislation to be And therein lies the problem. colleagues on this side of the aisle brought to the floor and to pass. We I am happy to yield further if the about the chairman. know it is not the whole answer. Unfor- gentlewoman is going to say something Having said that, let me say I do not tunately, that has not happened, and generous. I yield whatever time she believe that criminals should get guns more lives have been taken. The gen- wants. and we should do everything we pos- tleman’s constituents and mine are Mrs. LOWEY. I have no doubt that sibly can to prevent criminals from just afraid. the chairman’s intentions are very having access to guns. We should close This is the United States of America, noble and that he is a wise gentleman, loopholes where they exist that allow 1999. We know the guns are not the as always. criminals to get guns. whole answer. But let us begin by mak- Mr. HYDE. There is a well-known And with regard to the issue of gun ing it tougher to get one’s hands on a road paved with good intentions, I am shows, last year in America there were gun. aware of it. 54,000 guns that were confiscated in Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I do not dis- Mrs. LOWEY. However, the gen- crimes. Criminals purchased them agree with much that the gentlewoman tleman has talked about car registra- originally at gun shows. And the rea- from New York (Mrs. Lowey) has said. tion. I would like to see gun registra- son that that happened is because But there is an expectation that pass- tion as well. there is a gaping loophole in gun ing another law is going to make a Mr. HYDE. Not in this Congress, shows. great difference. though, I would advise the gentle- Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, will the gen- Now, I do not deny that there is woman. tleman yield? merit in additional gun laws. I think Mrs. LOWEY. Unfortunately, that Mr. BLAGOJEVICH. I yield to the we can do some more things. I think we may be the case, my dear friend. I gentleman from Illinois. are on the verge of doing that. I think would also like to say that although Mr. HYDE. The current law forbids the bill that passed the Senate was an lives may be lost unfortunately as a re- criminals from acquiring guns. If we excellent one but for one aspect of it, sult of gun accidents, the gentleman could enforce the current law, we and that is the gun show aspect. and I are terribly pained for every might make some progress. I thank the mother, every father, every family that gentleman. b 1630 loses a child, and every day we delay Mr. BLAGOJEVICH. Reclaiming my I believe, and we believe, there was another 13 lives are lost. Every day. time, Mr. Speaker, let me reiterate some unreasonable aspects to that, and So I would just encourage my good again my great respect for the chair- that is a sticking point that we have friend, and I am delighted I am on my man, the gentleman from Illinois (Mr. September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8599

HYDE); and let me say I agree with him, speak of all deliberate speed. I speak to ket where criminals can shop for fire- we should certainly do everything we the desire of this Nation to see this arms anonymously. Unlicensed sellers possibly can to enforce existing laws. issue through and to encourage the have no way of knowing whether they Let me also say this Congress has not conferees to work openly. are selling to a violent felon or some- been generous with regards to pro- I do not want to breathe down the one who intends to illegally traffic viding funds to the Bureau of Alcohol, necks of the conferees. I want to be the guns.’’ Tobacco and Firearms in its effort to wind beneath their wings. I want to be A gun show dealer, quoted in the fight gun violence. the engine that could. Make no mis- Lexington, Kentucky, Herald-Leader But having said that, there are loop- take. I do not question the good faith observed: ‘‘A criminal could come here holes in the existing law that allows of the conferees. I do not question any- and go booth to booth until he or she for criminals to go to gun shows and one’s intentions. It is the intentions of finds an individual to sell him or her a buy guns, as many as they want, with those who choose to defeat gun safety gun. No questions asked.’’ It just no questions asked. That is why 54,000 legislation, the spokespersons who con- makes no sense that any person today of those crime guns were confiscated tinue to carry the NRA banner, those can walk into a gun show and make a last year that were originally pur- are the ones I am worried about. purchase without any precautions chased at gun shows. We believe that the conferees should whatsoever. Moreover, illegal pur- The effort in the Senate that passed meet in public session, that they be al- chasers know they can go to a gun last May simply applies the Brady law lowed to offer motions and amend- show without worrying about being de- to gun shows. So if I want to go buy a ments and meet substantively and rec- nied a purchase. gun at a retail gun show, the same ommend a substitute. We agree that it An Illinois State police study dem- background requirements that I would is the overriding purpose of this bill to onstrated that 25 percent of illegally submit to if I went to a retail store do juvenile justice reform to protect trafficked firearms used in crimes would be applied to me at gun shows. It our children. originate at gun shows. In Florida, an is very basic and very simple, and I be- Mr. Speaker, my colleagues and I inmate escaping from detention, lieve all of us who believe the Brady simply wish to pick up the conferees, stopped at a gun show to make a pur- law has been successful, over 400,000 to push them along, to encourage chase while fleeing law enforcement proscribed people were denied the right them, to urge them, to get them to un- authorities. to buy guns because of that, ought to derstand that the time is now. Our Maybe these are some exceptions, but be for the Lautenberg version that children’s lives rest in their hands. these exceptions indicate that we do passed the Senate. And by the way, Mr. Chairman, auto- need to tighten up the law and to close And while there is a sense that delay mobiles were not made to kill, guns that loophole. No background check abounds in this chamber and that we were. was required, no waiting period. Sim- have not been able to do what the Sen- Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. ply absurd. So this loophole needs to be ate did in a timely fashion, I think if Speaker, may I inquire about the time closed, and I urge the conferees to do we are going to heed the lessons of his- remaining? just that. tory, we need to keep the pressure on The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. the well-intentioned Members who HANSEN). The gentlewoman from New Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- want to try to achieve what the Senate York (Mrs. MCCARTHY) has 161⁄2 min- tlewoman from Colorado (Ms. tried to do in the conference com- utes remaining, and the gentleman DEGETTE). mittee. from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) has 14 minutes Ms. DEGETTE. Mr. Speaker, I would So let me just close by saying that in remaining. like to thank my colleague from New view of the history in this chamber and Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. York for her dedication to this issue, our inability to pass the Senate version Speaker, I yield 21⁄4 minutes to the gen- and I would also like to thank the here in the House, I think it is reason- tlewoman from Maryland (Mrs. chairman, particularly for his dedica- able to suggest that we want to talk MORELLA). tion to the issue of making sure that about this on a daily basis to keep the Mrs. MORELLA. Mr. Speaker, I the multiple-round ammunition maga- pressure on and let the American peo- thank the gentlewoman for yielding me zines are banned, which is an issue that ple keep focused on this issue. Because this time, and I want to publicly state, is in my bill in the House and that he absent that, we probably will not get it as I have before, my great admiration worked with me and the gentlewoman done. for her commitment to gun control leg- from California (Ms. LOFGREN) and so Since this Congress began, we have islation. It comes from personal experi- many other people to pass. But we do had shootings in Columbine, we have ence, and I think we all attest to her have to pass this. It has not passed. had shootings in Indiana and Illinois, courage. I have to be honest, I have been very we have had shootings most recently in I am rising in support of the amend- skeptical about the probability of the Fort Worth, Texas. I think it is incum- ment that she offered to instruct the juvenile justice conferees reporting a bent upon us to heed what the Amer- conferees to meet publicly every week- bill with any child gun safety legisla- ican people want us to do, and that is day until they reach agreement. This is tion. So far it looks like this skep- to act. The Senate did so, we have not really setting priorities. ticism is not misplaced, because the done so. I know the chairman of this com- conferees have not had a substantive Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. mittee, and I was listening to the dis- meeting since we returned from the Speaker, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- cussion. I know he works very dili- August recess. And they did not work tlewoman from Ohio (Mrs. JONES). gently. He is a man of great credibility. substantively over the recess. So I am (Mrs. JONES of Ohio asked and was I have great respect for the chairman here to say, let us not have this foot- given permission to revise and extend of the committee. But I do think it is dragging; let us pass this legislation. her remarks.) important, and America is looking at It is true we have existing laws, and Mrs. JONES of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I us in terms of are we moving with de- it is true we should enforce those exist- am back. Yesterday, on a motion to in- liberate speed, do we have open meet- ing laws. But the truth is there is no struct conferees to craft juvenile jus- ings, and do we have them all the time. gun show law in effect that we could tice legislation that would be loophole One of the reasons I want this, of have enforced to stop the killers at free so that guns would not reach the course, is I hope to achieve the goal Columbine, which is four blocks from hands of those excluded by law from that we would close that gun show my district, from buying those guns at having guns; today, to instruct the loophole, the Brady bill, and I would a gun show. There is no existing law to conferees, as I said yesterday, to get it just point out a couple of reasons why stop the multiple-round ammunition on. I feel strongly. magazines which allow people to shoot Yesterday, I spoke of delay and was A joint study by the Departments of scores of people before they can be chastised. But if as a Member of Con- Justice and Treasury that was released stopped. And there is no existing law to gress I am talking about delay, I take earlier this year, in January, found require gun safety locks to be put on part of that responsibility. Today, I that, ‘‘Gun shows provide a large mar- guns. H8600 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE September 23, 1999 b 1645 knowledge the years and years that monly asked question in the Ninth We need common-sense child gun this Congress stood and watched as Congressional District, which borders safety locks. The majority of Ameri- there was inner-city violence with on the district of the chairman, is why cans understand this. And my col- ‘‘Saturday Night Specials’’ and prob- can the House not do something about league from New York (Mrs. LOWEY) is ably did nothing. So the fact that we guns? exactly right. People from Jefferson open these to public hearings is valu- My constituents asked me that after County, Colorado, not a Democratic able. Columbine and they asked me after district, Republicans, Independents, Then secondarily, I think it is impor- there was the shooting in my district and Democrats, come to me on the tant to note what we are talking about of the worshippers going home from streets of Denver and they beseech me with gun shows. It is absolutely hypo- the synagogue who were shot on the to do something, to pass common-sense critical and outrageous for the Na- street and the murder of Ricky tional Rifle Association to say that we child gun safety legislation. It is not a Birdsong in Skokie, which is in my dis- are trying to put gun shows out of busi- partisan issue. And the gentleman from trict, and they asked me if the shoot- ness. Illinois (Mr. HYDE) has amply dem- ings at the Jewish Community Center Frankly, I do not find them enter- in California were going to be enough onstrated this. But I fear that there are taining. We have had one every week in others in the leadership of this House finally for us to ask. And when the mad the State of Texas. But what we are gunman was in Atlanta, they thought, who are not letting this happen. saying is there is a loophole as big as a Please pass this motion to instruct. well, this has got to be it, that is going Mrs. McCARTHY of New York. Mr. truck that they can go to a gun show to tip the scales. And then Fort Worth, Speaker, I yield 3 minutes to the gen- and go to one licensed dealer over here where even the church was a dangerous and have an official Brady check and tlewoman from Texas (Ms. JACKSON- place. go to an unlicensed dealer over there LEE). And when I go home, they look at me Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. and get no check, and we are simply and they scratch their head and they Speaker, I thank the gentlewoman saying that the unlicensed dealer look in my face and they want to know from New York for yielding me the should use the same process of going an answer. They want to know what is time, and I thank her for her leader- through an official process and a 3-day it going to take, how many children ship, and I am delighted to join her on wait period so that we do not have the are we going to bury, how many school the conference committee. tragedies of what we have had with the shootings are there going to be. And I I want to speak to the chairman. I shooting in the Jewish Community really do not have an answer. appreciate his presence and his ac- Center. So why do we not open up the proc- I am really trying to, hopefully, have knowledgment that we can work to- ess? Why do we not let the people of dialogue with the National Rifle Asso- gether. But I think these are two very America in on the mystery of how Con- ciation, which pitches all of us as viable points in this motion to in- gress addresses issues like gun vio- wanting to come and take guns out of struct. lence? First of all, Mr. Speaker, I believe we people’s homes and close down gun The chairman spoke about inching should meet this week. Secondarily, I shows. Well, we may not like gun closer, inching closer. But inching clos- believe that it is important that we shows, but we have no intent of closing er is not a consolation when I go to the them down. have public meetings, and I will tell funerals in my district, and I have been What we do want to do, as the Lau- my colleagues why. to three in the last recent months, of tenberg effort wants to do in amend- First of all, the chairman of the Com- children who were killed by gun vio- ment, is to ensure that there is a con- mittee on the Judiciary, along with so lence. Inching closer does not satisfy. sistency in every single person that many of us, as the previous speaker They want to know when. comes in there to buy a gun so an from Colorado has mentioned, that Let us do it now. Let us open the anonymous criminal cannot come out many of us are supporting the high-ca- process. Let us restore confidence in and shoot someone. pacity ammo clips, the prohibition on people that this Congress can act, that The additional thing that I hope my those, which were the cause of the sin, we can do something, that there is an colleagues will respond to is that, un- if you will, on several recent shootings, orderly process, that there is real de- like movie theaters where a child must including the tragic shooting in Cali- bate, that there is real movement. be accompanied by an adult who goes fornia with the Jewish Community If we pass the motion of the gentle- into an X-rated or an R-rated movie, Center and, of course, the shootings woman, we can at least include the children can go into gun shows with no just this past week in Fort Worth, American people who want action in on supervision, we need to make sure that Texas, my own State, the shootings in this process and, hopefully, we can re- an adult accompanies a child to a gun Illinois, all generated because of these solve this issue before another inci- show if they go. dent, which I guarantee, my col- automatic clips. Yet there are some on Let us pass this motion to instruct leagues, will occur if we do not act and the conference and some Republicans and pass real gun safety reform for all do not act now. who are trying to classify it as a tax of our children in America. So I rise in support of the motion. bill which would delay and stymie its Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. being part of our gun safety reform. Speaker, may I inquire how much time Speaker, I yield such time as she may I think the other aspect of what I I have remaining? would like to speak to, Mr. Speaker, is The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. consume to the gentlewoman from California (Ms. LOFGREN). why I am standing here today. For, as HANSEN). The gentlewoman from New (Ms. LOFGREN asked and was given I go into my communities, many of York has 91⁄4 minutes remaining. The permission to speak out of order.) them will acknowledge that for years gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) has many inner-city poor neighborhoods 14 minutes remaining. ANNOUNCEMENT OF INTENTION TO OFFER MO- TION TO INSTRUCT CONFEREES ON H.R. 1501, were besieged by gun violence. Many Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. JUVENILE JUSTICE REFORM ACT OF 1999 mothers in inner cities for years had Speaker, I yield 21⁄2 minutes to the gen- Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Speaker, pursu- ‘‘Saturday Night’’ and ‘‘Friday Night tlewoman from Illinois (Ms. ant to clause 7 of rule XX, I hereby an- Specials.’’ And what were they? The SCHAKOWSKY). nounce my intention to offer a motion tragedy of the burial of their young (Ms. SCHAKOWSKY asked and was to instruct conferees on H.R. 1501. The children, gun violence and gang vio- given permission to revise and extend form of the motion is as follows: lence. her remarks.) So many of my constituents in inner- Ms. SCHAKOWSKY. Mr. Speaker, I Ms. LOFGREN moves that the managers on city Texas districts asked why all of a thank my colleague the gentlewoman the part of the House on the conference on sudden are we raising our eyes and our the disagreeing votes of the two houses on from New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY), who the Senate amendment to the bill, H.R. 1501, ire about gun violence? Public hearings is really an inspiration to all of us on be instructed that the committee on the con- will let them know that we distinguish this issue, for yielding me the time. ference recommend a conference substitute between no one. The death of a child is Mr. Speaker, say to the chairman, I that includes provisions within the scope of still the death of a child. And we ac- need to tell him that the most com- conference which are consistent with the September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8601 Second Amendment to the United States unregulated. We condition yell ‘‘fire’’ I would say to the gentleman that his Constitution (e.g., (1) requiring unlicensed in the proverbial crowded theater. point about cultural violence is a dealers at gun shows to conduct background There are laws against obscenity, slan- strong point, but I would also raise the checks; (2) banning the juvenile possession of der, libel, copyrights, all sorts of re- fact that, if we look statistically, the assault weapons; (3) requiring that child safety locks be sold with every handgun; and strictions on free speech. That does not young people will tell us that 95 per- (4) a Juvenile Brady bill.) diminish the significance of it, but it cent of our youth are good and the 5 Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- just says it is constitutionally possible percent may be the ones that are self such time as I may consume. to have restrictions. caught up in some of these heinous Mr. Speaker, this has been inter- The same thing is true of the Second acts. At the same time they are caught esting. Yesterday’s motion was inter- Amendment. I think everyone should so we are concerned about what they esting, and today’s motion, and tomor- have the right if they are otherwise get in school and in music. We have row’s, and then next week’s, every day, normal and qualified to own a gun if adults that have already gone past our I am sure. they want to. There are hunters. There training. We have a nice discussion, a serious are sportsmen. There is a right to pro- We have got the very deranged indi- discussion about these problems; and tect our homes. But, at the same time, vidual who went into the Jewish Com- that is all to the good. But something I believe reasonable restrictions are munity Center and did it out of hate, is missing. possible. but what happened is he did not use a Guns are important. Guns are the in- I do not think criminals should have knife. The hateful gentleman in Illi- struments by which these killings guns. I do not think young children nois did not use a knife. They used occur. But at the same time, there is so should have guns. There are all sorts of guns, and I have said over and over to much more to this problem that is not reasonable restrictions. Assault weap- my friends in Texas: being discussed by anybody and that is ons, by definition, do not belong in the I am in a very difficult position, com- the violence that our children are civilian community. I am willing to ing from the State of Texas because being fed in the entertainment indus- support those. But I think we have to they hold on to their weapons very try, in the movies, in the music, in the be honest, and I think that the intel- strongly, and I have been consistently Internet games that are played. lectual community ought to under- a person who believes in gun regula- Violence is a staple. It has desen- stand that entertainment and adver- tion, and I am not alone with the gen- sitized, it has calloused people’s sen- tising and music and culture today is tleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) asking sitivities. And nobody seems to get ex- at the bottom of a lot of this problem. to pierce the sanctity of someone’s ercised about that. I got exercised Something fills the heart and souls of home to take their guns out that they about it. I thought that, since obscen- our kids other than hope and love. legally own or to close down gun shows ity is not protected by the First There is hate. There is fear. There is a in which I do not like, frankly; but Amendment, violence, the purveying of culture of death animating the kids what I am saying, that the Second violence ought to not be protected be- who pull those guns, put them up Amendment can live consistently and cause it is a form of obscenity. against the little girl’s head and says, constitutionally with gun regulation. I got overwhelmed because the lobby- Do you believe in God? And she said Mr. HYDE. Mr. Speaker, I agree with ists came out and said, gee, you are yes, and then he pulled the trigger. the gentlewoman. going to hurt the retailers that are re- The gun did not go off by itself. That Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. So, Mr. tailing this stuff. And so, nobody really kid pulled that trigger because there Speaker, I think we are not in dis- cares about that, it is guns that are the was something inside him that was ter- agreement. I believe there have been problem. ribly wrong. I think we ought to start many of us who have risen to the floor I say we are filling our children with addressing this broad picture, not just of the House to speak against the hei- a culture of death and we are worrying focusing on the instrumentality of as- nous violent music or violent words or about the guns, the instruments of sassination. A knife in the hands of a Internet violence, but we must admit some of this death. I worry about it, surgeon is one thing. A knife in the that guns do kill and they are in the too, and I do not disregard that. But I hands of an assassin is another thing. hands of individuals who use them to would like to see some sensitivity on kill. b 1700 the liberal side for the climate that we Mr. HYDE. Guns are the instrumen- are raising our kids in, that is at the The knife is neutral. It is what ani- tality, but the spirit of killing is the day-care centers, where the socializa- mates the user that is really the root person who pulls the trigger, and we tion of our children develops according problem here, which nobody wants to ought to take a look at that. to the law of the jungle, where parents address because we bump into the en- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. cannot find the time to spend with tertainment industry, and God forbid Speaker, I join the gentleman from Il- their children. we get between a buck and the indus- linois in that. I hope we can do both to- There are profound problems with try. gether. our culture that are not getting better. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Mr. HYDE. I do, too. ‘‘Deviancy’’ is being defined down in Speaker, will the gentleman yield? Let me just say in closing, this inter- the famous phrase of the famous Sen- Mr. HYDE. I yield to the gentle- esting philosophical seminar the gen- ator from New York. But we are talk- woman from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). tleman from Chicago (Mr. ing about guns. That is okay. Guns are Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. BLAGOJEVICH) commented that we did a serious problem. They are dangerous Speaker, as usual the gentleman from not fund the Bureau of Alcohol, To- instrumentalities. Illinois has made an extremely pas- bacco and Firearms adequately for There is a Second Amendment, how- sionate and eloquent and very persua- their job. During the last 5 years the ever, that I respect. Most of the con- sive argument. Justice Department’s funding has dou- stitutional scholars that exist that I do not pretend to stand and rep- bled; it is about 14.7 billion now, and talk about protecting the Constitution resent the liberal element of this Con- gun prosecutions by the Justice De- kind of gloss over the Second Amend- gress. I do not know if anyone has des- partment have dropped almost in half. ment. But it is there. It is in the Con- ignated me as such. But I might re- So we can look there, too, as long as stitution, and it serves a very useful mind the gentleman that when we were we are exercising the searching gaze of purpose. Because I would not like to doing the telecommunications bill, the House of Representatives. see Americans disarmed because the there were many of us, Democrats and Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance government sometimes in some cul- Republicans alike, who joined on an ob- of my time. tures and histories becomes the adver- scenity-prevention amendment or pro- Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York. Mr. sary, and I think a protection of free- vision with respect to the Internet, and Speaker, I yield myself such time as I dom is that people can maintain arms. we ultimately, Mr. Chairman, were may consume. But I also believe, as in freedom of ruled unconstitutional or at least ruled Mr. Speaker, the reason that we are speech, that reasonable regulation is out of order, if my colleague will, by doing this motion is because, and I am appropriate. Freedom of speech is not the Supreme Court. glad we have this conversation today H8602 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE September 23, 1999 and the debate going back and forth be- We have to have good standards. tional Instant Check Background System cause it reminds me of the debate that That is why we are all here. We set the (NICS), such as a person’s history of mental we had on June 19 when we were talk- laws of the land, and we are certainly illness, domestic violence, or recent arrests. ing about only the amendments that For law enforcement officials, it is not how going to have disagreements, and I un- fast a background check can be done but we are trying to get passed. I think derstand that. The majority of us know rather how thorough the check is conducted. people have to stop, think, and hope- that we always have to compromise, Without a minimum of three business days, fully actually read what the amend- and we accept that also. But there the risk increases that guns will be sold to ment says. There is nothing in the comes a point when that compromise criminals or others prohibited from pur- amendment on trying to close the gun could cause a lot of loss of lives, and we chasing guns. show loophole that will affect some- have to be very clear on that, very, The Police Foundation is concerned that one’s Second Amendment rights. We neither the 24-hour or 72-hour requirements very clear on that. allow for an adequate background check. The have to make that extremely clear. Mr. Speaker, I hope between now and FBI has analyzed NICS background check Right now, if someone wants to buy a when the bill comes up for a vote again data for the last six months and estimates gun, when they go to a gun store, they that the clear information will be out that if the law had required all background have a federally licensed dealer. When there. As my colleagues know, there is checks to be completed in 72 hours, 9,000 peo- they go to a gun show, 45 percent of a part in the amendment where they ple found to be disqualified would have been those selling guns there are federally talk about tracing. They do not like able to obtain a weapon. If there had been a licensed dealers. All we are saying is the idea of tracing. Mr. Speaker, I have 24-hour background check time limit, 17,000 prohibited purchasers would have obtained that those that come into gun shows to tell my colleagues every successful and are not federally licensed should weapons in the last six months. The FBI also police department throughout this found that a gun buyer who could not be not be able to sell a gun to someone be- country that really works with the cleared by NICS in under two hours was cause the criminals know where to go ATF on tracing, they are the ones that twenty times more likely to be a prohibited get the guns; that is the problem. The have the lowest crime rates because purchaser. criminals do know where to go get the they are able to find those illegal gun We strongly believe that all gun sales—be they in gun stores or at gun shows—should guns. dealers. Traces are an extremely im- So all we are saying is if someone is be subject to a three-business-day back- portant part of the bill. We cannot let ground check requirement; without such going to sell a gun at a gun show, that that go. person should have to go under the standards, gun shows will continue to be a Mr. Speaker, we do need more fund- major source of weapons for violent felons, same rules and regulations as those ing for that so that the Boston project straw purchasers, the dangerously unstable, legal dealers at the gun show. That is that has worked so wonderfully, has and others who threaten our communities. all we are saying. cut down murders in Boston, especially Despite being convicted of multiple felonies, As was mentioned, 95 percent of the among the young people; it is a project Hank Earl Carr was able to purchase mul- people that go to gun shows get their tiple guns at gun shows—guns he used to that works, and we are seeing it work guns instantly through the check. We murder his stepson and three police officers throughout the country. We are sup- are dealing with a very, very small per- in Florida in 1998. posed to support those things. That is centage, very, very small percentage of The Police Foundation supports other Sen- tracing. ate-passed provisions, including requiring people that might have to wait a cou- Here it was brought up earlier that child safety locks with every handgun sold; ple of hours. Then we even go further gun shows do not really have guns go banning all violent juveniles from buying to a smaller percentage that actually to criminals. Well, we have a report, guns when they turn eighteen; banning juve- might have to wait 24 hours. nile possession of assault weapons; enhanc- and I offer this which includes the let- This is what I am saying: How can I ing penalties for transferring a firearm to a stand here and not fight to do whatever ters from police organizations that juvenile; and banning the importation of I can to make sure that guns do not get support the original bills, as they were, high capacity ammunition magazines. in the wrong hands? How can I stand and I want to submit this, the ATF re- In order to protect the safety of our fami- lies and our communities, it is important to here and make sure that what we do port, so this can go into the RECORD so people can look at this when they want adopt the Senate-passed, gun-related provi- here in the House will be the right sions. The Police Foundation is committed thing? Because if we pass a bill and more information. The materials referred to are as fol- to working with you and your colleagues in that bill is not strong enough to stop the Congress in supporting and enacting sen- lows: the criminal from getting the gun, and sible measures to protect all Americans and POLICE FOUNDATION, then God forbid someone buys a gun at most especially our children. WASHINGTON, DC, a gun show, goes to one of our schools, Sincerely yours, September 16, 1999. HUBERT WILLIAMS. goes to one of our churches, goes to one Hon. ORRIN G. HATCH, of our synagogues and does their kill- U.S. Senate, Washington, DC. INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF DEAR CHAIRMAN HATCH: The Police Foun- ing, how can we live with each other? CHIEFS OF POLICE, How can we even face the victims of dation is a private, independent, non- Alexandria, VA, September 14, 1999. partisan, and nonprofit organization dedi- those crimes? That is what we have to Hon. ORRIN G. HATCH, do. cated to supporting innovation and improve- U.S. Senate, Washington, DC. I am someone that actually supports ment in policing. Established in 1970, the DEAR CHAIRMAN HATCH: On behalf of the foundation has conducted seminal research more than 18,000 members of the Inter- the Second Amendment. I happen to in police behavior, policy, and procedure, and believe in the Second Amendment, and national Association of Chiefs of Police works to transfer to local agencies the best (IACP), I am writing to express our strong I have to tell my colleagues I know of new information about practices for dealing support for several vitally important fire- an awful lot of gun owners that are effectively with a wide range of important arms provisions that were included in S. 254, coming up to me more and more and police operational and administrative con- the Violent and Repeat Juvenile Offender more, even saying, and actually they cerns. On behalf of the Police Foundation, I Accountability Act of 1999. are very proud when they come up to am writing today in strong support of the As conference work on juvenile justice leg- gun-related provisions adopted by the Senate me and say, Mrs. MCCARTHY, I am an islation begins, I would urge you to consider NRA member, and I do believe that I as part of S. 254. These measures are crucial the views of our nation’s chiefs of police on in reducing access to guns by children and these important issues. Specifically, the have a right to own a gun. But I also criminals. IACP strongly supports provisions that believe that we have to take a little As you and other conferees meet, the Po- would require the performance of back- more responsibility for our guns. lice Foundation urges you to focus on an ground checks prior to the sale or transfer of All we are asking for our citizens and issue of importance to law enforcement—the weapons at gun shows, as well as extending for everybody that wants to buy a gun: need for at least three business days to con- the requirements of the Brady Act to cover Are you willing to take 3 business duct background checks at gun shows. This juvenile acts of crime. days, 3 business days, to make sure is the same period of time currently required The IACP has always viewed the Brady Act that a criminal or a child does not get when a firearm is purchased from a licensed as a vital component of any comprehensive gun dealer. crime control effort. Since its enactment, their hand on a gun? The majority of We believe it is critical to have at least the Brady Act has prevented more than Americans are saying yes to that. Un- three business days to do a thorough back- 400,000 felons, fugitives and others prohibited fortunately, that sound has not gotten ground check, especially to access records from owning firearms from purchasing fire- in here, inside of Washington. that may not be available on the Federal Na- arms. However, the efficacy of the Brady Act September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8603

is undermined by oversights in the law which ARAPAHOE COUNTY forward to working with you to ensure swift allow those individuals prohibited from own- SHERIFF’S OFFICE, enactment of S. 254. ing firearms from obtaining weapons, at Littleton, CO, September 15, 1999. Respectfully, events such as gun shows, without under- Chairman ORRIN HATCH, PATRICK J. SULLIVAN, Jr., Sheriff. going a background check. The IACP be- Senate Judiciary Committee, lieves that it is vitally important that Con- Washington, DC. NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF gress act swiftly to chose these loopholes DEAR CHAIRMAN HATCH: As you and other SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS, and preserve the effectiveness of the Brady conferees meet to craft juvenile justice legis- September 16, 1999. Act. lation, I urge you to adopt the gun-related Chairman HATCH, provisions adopted by the Senate as part of However, simply requiring that a back- Senate Judiciary Committee, Washington, DC. S. 254, The Violent and Repeat Juvenile Of- DEAR CHAIRMAN HATCH: The National Asso- ground check be performed is meaningless fender Accountability and Rehabilitation ciation of School Resource Officers (NASRO) unless law enforcement authorities are pro- Act of 1999. We at the National Sheriffs’ As- is a national organization that represents vided with a period of time sufficient to com- sociation (NSA) appreciate your efforts to over 5000 school based police officers from plete a thorough background check, law en- curb violent juvenile crime. municipal police agencies, county sheriff de- forcement executives understand that thor- We feel that S. 254 combines the best provi- partments and school district police forces. ough and complete background checks take sions of each legislative attempt to reform On behalf of our entire membership nation- time. The IACP believes that to suggest, as and modernize juvenile crime control. As wide, I am writing today in strong support of some proposals do, that the weapon be trans- you know, sheriffs are increasingly burdened the gun-related provisions adopted by the ferred to the purchaser if the background with juvenile offenders, and they present sig- Senate as part of S. 254. These measures are checks are not completed within 24 hours of nificant challengers for sheriffs. The so- crucial in reducing child and criminal access sale sacrifices the safety of our communities called core mandates requiring sight and to guns. for the sake of convenience. sound separation, jail removal and status of- As you and other conferees meet to craft Requiring that individuals wait three busi- fender mandates are so restrictive, that even juvenile justice legislation, NASRO urges ness days is hardly an onerous burden, espe- reasonable attempts to comply with the you to focus on an important issue to law en- cially since allowing for more comprehensive mandates fall short. We welcome modest forcement—the need for at least three busi- background checks ensures that those indi- changes to the core mandates to make them ness days to conduct background checks at viduals who are forbidden from purchasing flexible without jeopardizing the safety of gun shows. This is the same period of time firearms are prevented from doing so. the juvenile inmate. We agree that kids do currently allowed when a firearm is pur- not belong in adult jail and therefore we ap- chased from a licensed gun dealer. Finally, the IACP believes that juveniles preciate the commitment to find appropriate As law enforcement officials we know from must be held accountable for their acts of vi- alternatives for juvenile offenders. experience that it is critical to have at least olence. Therefore, the IACP also supports Additionally, NSA supports the Juvenile three business days to do a thorough back- modifying the current Brady Act to perma- Accountability Block Grant program. S. 254 ground check. Law enforcement officials nently prohibit gun ownership by an indi- sets aside $4 billion to implement the provi- need time to access records that may not be vidual, while a juvenile, commits a crime sions of the bill and this grant funding will available on the federal National Instant that would have triggered a gun disability if enable sheriffs to receive assistance to meet Check Background System (NICS) such as a their crime had been committed as an adult. the core mandates. NSA is also hopeful that person’s history of mental illness, domestic Thank you for your attention to this mat- the prevention programs in the bill will keep violence or recent arrests. What is important ter. If you have any questions, please do not juveniles out of the justice system. Kids that to law enforcement is not how fast a back- hesitate to contact me at 703/836–6767. are engaged in constructive activities are ground check can be done but how thorough Sincerely, less likely to commit crimes that those it is conducted. Without a minimum of three RONALD S. NEUBAUER, whose only other alternative is a gang. We business days this will increase the risk that President. applaud the focus on prevention, and we criminals will be able to purchase guns. stand ready to do our part to engage Amer- NASRO is concerned that 72 or 24 hours is ica’s youth. not an adequate amount of time for law en- INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF In addition, you may be asked to consider forcement to do an effective background POLICE OFFICERS, the following amendments that I support. check. The FBI analyzed all NICS back- Alexandria, VA, September 15, 1999. Four ways to close loopholes giving kids ground check data in the last six months and Hon. ORRIN G. HATCH, access to firearms: estimated that—if the law had required all Senate Committee on the Judiciary, Wash- 1. The Child Access Loophole: Adults are background checks to be completed in 72 ington, DC. prohibited from transferring firearms to ju- hours—9,000 people found to be disqualified DEAR CHAIRMAN HATCH: The International veniles, but are not required to store guns so would have been able to obtain a weapon. If Brotherhood of Police Officers (IBPO) is an that kids cannot get access to them. This the time limit for checks had been set at just affiliate of the Service Employees Inter- Child Access Prevention (CAP) proposal 24 hours, 17,000 prohibited purchasers would national Union, AFL–CIO. The IBPO is the would require parents to keep loaded fire- have gotten guns in just the last half year. largest police union in the AFL–CIO. arms out of the reach of children and would the FBI also found that a gun buyer who hold gun owners criminally responsible if a could not be cleared by the NICS system in On behalf of the entire membership of the child gains access to an unsecured firearm under 2 hours was 20 times more likely to be IBPO I wish to express our strong support of and uses it to injure themselves or someone a prohibited purchaser than other gun buy- the gun-related provisions adopted by the else. ers. Senate as part of S. 254. The IBPO knows 2. The Gun Show Loophole: So-called ‘‘pri- It is impossible to tell precisely how many that passage of these measures will keep vate collectors’’ can sell guns without back- lives will be saved by applying the same guns away from children and criminals. ground checks at gun shows and flea mar- background check system that now applies The IBPO requests that the conferees con- kets thereby skirting the Brady Law which to gun store sales to gun shows. We know, tinue to focus on the need for adequate time requires that federally licensed gun dealers however, that without such equivalent treat- to conduct background checks at ‘‘gun initiate and complete a background check ment gun shows will continue to be the pur- shows.’’ As I am sure that you are aware, the before they sell a firearm. No gun should be chase points of choice for murderers, armed Federal Bureau of Investigation has esti- sold at a gun show without a background robbers and other violent criminals like mated that over 17,000 disqualified individ- check and appropriate documentation. Hank Earl Carr, who was a frequent gun uals would have been able to purchase a gun 3. The Internet Loophole Similar to the show buyer despite being a multiple con- if a twenty-four hour time limit was required Gun Show Loophole: Many sales on the victed felon. Carr’s crimes didn’t stop until for a background check. Accordingly, if such internet are performed without a back- 1998, when he shot his stepson and three po- time requirement is legislated 17,000 more ground check, allowing criminals and other lice officers before turning a gun on himself. felons will be able to purchase guns. prohibited purchasers to acquire firearms. On June 23, 1999 a Colorado man shot and No one should be able to sell guns over the The IBPO is also in support of extending killed his three daughters, ages 7, 8 and 10 internet without complying with the Brady just hours after purchasing a gun from a li- the requirements of the Brady Act to cover background check requirements. censed dealer. The dealer completed a NICS juvenile acts of crime. Our union has sup- 4. The Violent Juveniles Purchase Loop- check, but the check failed to reveal that the ported legislation which seeks to comprehen- hole: Under current law, anyone convicted of man had a domestic abuse restraining order sively control crime. The Brady Act is a a felony in an adult court is barred from against him. If law enforcement had con- major part of such efforts. owning a weapon. However, juveniles con- sulted local and state records using both Thank you for your consideration of these victed of violent crimes in a juvenile court computerized and non-computerized data issues that are significant to all law enforce- can purchase a gun on their 21st birthday. bases than the man probably would have ment officers and the citizens of the United Juveniles who commit violent felony of- never been able to purchase the gun. States of America. fenses when they are young should be prohib- The other Senate passed provisions NASRO Sincerely, ited from buying guns as adults. supports include requiring that child safety KENNETH T. LYONS, The National Sheriffs Association and I locks be provided with every handgun sold; National President. welcome passage of this legislation. We look banning all violent juveniles from buying H8604 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE September 23, 1999

guns when they turn 18; banning juvenile HISPANIC AMERICAN POLICE COM- from buying guns when they turn 18; banning possession of assault rifles; enhancing pen- MAND OFFICERS ASSOCIATION, THE juvenile possession of assault rifles; enhanc- alties for transferring a firearm to a juve- RONALD REAGAN BUILDING & ing penalties for transferring a firearm to a nile; and banning the importation of high ca- INTERNATIONAL TRADE CENTER, juvenile; and banning the importation of pacity ammunition magazines. Washington, DC, September 15, 1999. high capacity ammunition magazines. It is important to adopt the Senate-passed Chairman HATCH, It is important to adopt the Senate-passed gun-related provisions in order to protect Senate Judiciary Committee, Washington, DC. gun-related provisions in order to protect the safety of our families and our commu- DEAR CHAIRMAN HATCH: The Hispanic the safety of families and our communities. nities. The police officer on the street under- American Police Command Officers Associa- The police officer on the street understands stands that this legislation is needed to help tion (HAPCOA) represents 1,500 command that this legislation is needed to help keep keep guns out of the hands of children and law enforcement officers and affiliates from guns out of the hands of children and violent violent criminals. municipal police departments, county sher- criminals. Sincerely, iffs, and state and federal agencies including Sincerely, CURTIS LAVARELLO, the DEA, U.S. Marshals Service. FBI, U.S. JESS QUINTERO, Executive Director. Secret Service, and the U.S. Park Police. On National Executive Director. behalf of our entire membership nationwide, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF I am writing today in strong support of the POLICE EXECUTIVE RESEARCH FORUM, BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES, gun-related provisions adopted by the Senate Washington, DC, September 14, 1999. September 15, 1999. as part of S. 254. These measures are crucial Hon. ORRIN G. HATCH, Hon. ORRIN HATCH, in reducing child and criminal access to Chairman, Senate Committee on the Judiciary, Chair, Senate Judiciary Committee, U.S. Senate, guns. Washington, DC. Washington, DC. As you and other conferees meet to craft DEAR CHAIRMAN HATCH: The Police Execu- DEAR SENATOR HATCH: The National Orga- juvenile justice legislation, HAPCOA urges tive Research Forum (PERF) is a national nization of Black Law Enforcement Execu- you to focus on an important issue to law en- organization of police professionals dedi- tives (NOBLE) representing over 3500 black forcement—the need for at least three busi- cated to improving policing practices law enforcement managers, executives, and ness days to conduct background checks at through research, debate and leadership. On practitioners strongly urge you to support gun shows. This is the same period of time behalf of our members, I am writing today in the gun related provisions adopted by the currently allowed when a firearm is pur- strong support of the gun-related provisions Senate as a part of S. 254. These measures chased from a licensed gun dealer. adopted by the Senate as part of S. 254. are crucial in reducing child and criminal ac- As law enforcement officials we know from These measures are crucial in reducing chil- cess to guns. experience that it is critical to have at least dren’s and criminals’ access to guns. As you and other conferees meet to craft three business days to do a thorough back- As you and other conferees meet to craft juvenile legislation, NOBLE urges you to ground check. Law enforcement officials juvenile justice legislation, PERF urges you focus on an important issue to law enforce- need time to access records that may not be to focus on an important issue to law en- ment—the need for at least three business available on the federal National Instant forcement—the need for at least three busi- days to conduct background checks at gun Check Background System (NICS) such as a ness days to conduct background checks at shows. This is the same period of time cur- person’s history of mental illness, domestic gun shows. This is the same period of time rently allowed when a firearm is purchased violence or recent arrests. What is important currently allowed when a firearm is pur- from a licensed dealer. to law enforcement is not how fast a back- chased from a licensed gun dealer. NOBLE is concerned that 24 hours is not an As law enforcement officials, we know ground check can be done but how thorough adequate amount of time for law enforce- from experience that it is critical to have at it is conducted. Without a minimum of three ment to do an effective background check. least three business days to do a thorough The FBI analyzed all National Instant Check business days this will increase the risk that background check. While most checks take Background System (NICS) data in the last 6 criminals will be able to purchase guns. only a few hours, those that take longer HAPCOA is concerned that 72 or 24 hours is months and estimated that—if the law had often signal a potential problem regarding not an adequate amount of time for law en- required all background checks to be com- the purchaser. Without a minimum of three forcement to do an effective background pleted in 72 hours, 9000 people found to be business days, the risk that criminals will be check. The FBI analyzed all NICS back- disqualified would have been able to obtain a able to purchase guns increases. The FBI ground check data in the last six months and weapon. If the time limit for checks had been analyzed all NICS background check data in estimated that—if the law had required all set for 24 hours, 17,000 prohibited purchasers the last six months and estimated that, if would have gotten guns in just the last half background checks to be completed in 72 the law had required all background checks year. The FBI also found that a gun buyer hours—9,000 people found to be disqualified to be completed in 72 hours, 9,000 people who could not be cleared by the NICS system would have been able to obtain a weapon. If found to be disqualified would have been able in under 2 hours was 20 times more likely to the time limit for checks had been set at just to obtain a weapon. If the time limit for be a prohibited purchaser than other gun 24 hours, 17,000 prohibited purchasers would checks had been set at just 24 hours, 17,000 buyers. have gotten guns in just the last half year. prohibited purchasers would have obtained It is impossible to tell precisely how many The FBI also found that a gun buyer who guns in just the last half year. The FBI also lives will be saved by applying the same could not be cleared by the NICS system in found that a gun buyer who could not be background check system that now applies under two hours was 20 times more likely to cleared by the NICS system in under two to gun store sales to gun shows. We know, be a prohibited purchaser than other gun hours was 20 times more likely to be a pro- however, that without such equivalent treat- buyers. hibited purchaser than other gun buyers. ment gun shows will continue to be the pur- It is impossible to tell precisely how many PERF also strongly supports measures chased points of choice for murders, armed lives will be saved by applying the same that impose new safety standards on the robbers and other violent criminals like background check system that now applies manufacture and importation of handguns Hank Earl Carr, who was a frequent gun to gun store sales to gun shows. We know, requiring a child-resistant safety lock. PERF show buyer despite being a multiple con- however, that without such equivalent treat- helped write the handgun safety guidelines— victed felon. Carr’s crimes did not stop until ment gun shows will continue to be the pur- issued to most police agencies more than a 1998, when he shot his stepson and three po- chase points of choice for murderers, armed decade ago—on the need to secure handguns lice officers before turning the gun on him- robbers and other violent criminals like kept in the home. Our commitment has not self. Hank Earl Carr, who was a frequent gun wavered. I also urge you to clarify that the The other Senate passed provisions NOBLE show buyer despite being a multiple con- storage containers and safety mechanisms supports include requiring that child safety victed felon. Carr’s crimes didn’t stop until meet minimum standards to ensure that the locks be provided with every handgun sold; 1998, when he shot his stepson and three po- requirements have teeth. banning all violent juveniles from buying lice officers before turning a gun on himself. PERF also encourages the enactment of guns when they turn 18; banning juvenile On June 23, 1999 a Colorado man shot and proposals that prohibit the sale of an assault possession of assault rifles; enhancing pen- killed his three daughters, ages 7, 8 and 10 weapon to anyone under age 18 and to in- alties for transferring a firearm to a juve- just hours after purchasing a gun from a li- crease the criminal penalties for selling a nile; and banning the importation of high ca- censed dealer. The dealer completed a NICS gun to a juvenile. PERF also supports ban- pacity ammunition magazines. check, but the check failed to reveal that the ning all violent juveniles from buying any It is important to adopt the Senate passed man had a domestic abuse restraining order type of gun when they turn 18, and supports gun related provisions in order to protect the against him. If law enforcement had con- banning the importation of high-capacity safety of our families and our communities. sulted local and state records using both ammunition magazines. PERF knows we The police officer on the street understands computerized and non-computerized data must do more to keep guns out of the hands that this legislation is needed to help keep bases than the man probably would have of our nation’s troubled youth. guns out of the hands of children and violent never been able to purchase the gun. PERF supports strong, enforceable ‘‘Child criminals. The other Senate passed provisions Access Prevention’’ laws. Once again, we Sincerely, HAPCOA supports include requiring that have witnessed the carnage that results ROBERT L. STEWART, child safety locks be provided with every when children have access to firearms. PERF Executive Director. handgun sold; banning all violent juveniles has supported child access prevention bills in September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8605 the past because we have seen first hand the President Clinton was particularly con- Sixth, the Federal Government should horror that can occur when angry and dis- cerned that felons and illegal firearms traf- commit additional resources to combat the turbed kids have access to guns. fickers could use gun shows to buy large illegal trade of firearms at gun shows. With- We must do more to keep America’s chil- quantities of weapons without ever dis- out a commitment to financially support dren safe—not just because of recent events, closing their identities, having their back- this initiative, the effectiveness of this pro- but because of the shootings, accidents and grounds checked, or having any other posal would be limited. suicide attempts we see with frightening reg- records maintained on their purchases. He Seventh, in conjunction with the firearms ularity. It is important to adopt the Senate- asked the Secretary of the Treasury and the industry, a campaign should be undertaken passed gun-related provisions in order to pro- Attorney General to provide him with rec- to encourage all firearms owners to take tect our families and our communities. The ommendations to address this problem. steps when selling or otherwise disposing of police officer on the street understands that In developing recommendations for re- their weapons to ensure that they do not fall this legislation is needed to help keep guns sponding to the President’s directive, the De- into the hands of criminals, unauthorized ju- out of the hands of children and violent partment of the Treasury and the Depart- veniles, or other prohibited persons. criminals. Thank you for considering the ment of Justice sought input from United Taken together, these recommendations views of law enforcement. We applaud your States Attorneys, FFLs, law enforcement or- will address the President’s goals of pre- efforts to help make our communities safer ganizations, trade associations, and a wide venting firearms sales to prohibited persons places to live. range of other groups interested in firearms at gun shows and better enabling law en- Sincerely, issues. The suggestions of these disparate forcement to trace crime guns. Whenever any part of a firearms transaction takes CHUCK WEXLER, groups ranged from doing nothing to estab- place at a gun show, the requirements of the Executive Director. lishing an outright ban on all sales of fire- arms at gun shows or by anyone other than Brady Act will apply, and records will be GUN SHOWS: BRADY CHECKS AND CRIME GUN an FFL. The United States Attorneys ex- kept to allow the firearm to be traced if it is TRACES—JANUARY 1999, EXECUTIVE SUMMARY pressed particular concern with the com- later used in crime. If unlicensed individuals More than 4,000 shows dedicated primarily plexity of the statutory definition of ‘‘en- wish to sell their personal collections of fire- to the sale or exchange of firearms are held gaged in the business’’ of dealing in firearms arms at gun shows, they will now have the annually in the United States. There are also and noted that this made unlicensed fire- obligation—and the means—to ensure that countless other public markets at which fire- arms traffickers unusually difficult to pros- they are not selling their guns to felons or arms are freely sold or traded, such as flea ecute. other prohibited persons. The recommended markets. Under current law, large numbers The recommendations in this report build steps impose reasonable obligations in con- of firearms at these public markets are sold upon existing systems and expertise to nection with firearms transactions at gun anonymously; the seller has no idea and is achieve the President’s goals of preventing shows while significantly enhancing law en- under no obligation to find out whether he or sales to prohibited persons and better ena- forcement’s ability to prevent criminals she is selling a firearm to a felon or other bling law enforcement to trade crime guns. from getting guns and to apprehend those prohibited person. If any of these firearms First, ‘‘gun show’’ would be defined to in- who use firearms in the commission of are later recovered at a crime scene, there is clude not only traditional gun shows but crimes. virtually no way to trace them back to the also flea markets and others similar venues 1. DESCRIPTION OF GUN SHOWS purchaser. where firearms are sold. Sponsorship and Operation of Gun Shows The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Second, ATF would register all persons Act (Brady Act) provides crucial information who promote gun shows. Promoters would be Shows that specialize primarily in the sale about firearms buyers to Federal firearms li- required to notify ATF of the time and loca- and exchange of all types of firearms are fre- 3 censees (FFLs), but does not help non- tion of each gun show, provide ATF with a quent and popular events. According to the periodical ‘‘Gun Show Calendar’’ (Krause licensees to identify prohibited purchasers. list of vendors at the show, indicate whether Publications), 4,442 such shows were adver- Under the Brady Act, FFLs contact the Fed- the vendors are FFLs, ensure that all ven- tised for calendar year 1998. The following eral Bureau of Investigation’s National In- dors are provided with information about are the 10 States where shows were con- stant Criminal Background Check System their legal obligations, and require that ven- ducted most frequently in 1998: (NICS) to ensure that a purchaser is not a dors acknowledge receipt of this informa- tion. If a registered promoter fails to fulfill State Number of shows felon or otherwise prohibited from possessing Texas ...... 472 these obligations, ATF would consider re- firearms. Until the Brady Act was passed, Pennsylvania ...... 250 the only way an FFL could determine wheth- voking or suspending the promoter’s reg- Florida ...... 224 er a purchaser was a felon or other person istration or imposing a civil monetary pen- Illinois ...... 203 prohibited from possessing firearms was on alty. Criminal penalties would also be avail- California ...... 188 the basis of the customer’s self-certification. able in certain circumstances. Indiana ...... 180 The Brady Act supplemented this ‘‘honor Third, if any part of a firearms trans- North Carolina ...... 170 system’’ with one that allows licensees to action, including display of the weapon, oc- Oregon ...... 160 transfer a firearm only after a records check curs at a gun show, the firearm could be Ohio ...... 148 Nevada ...... 129 that prevents the acquisition of firearms by transferred only by, or with the assistance persons not legally entitled to possess them. of, an FFL. Therefore, if a nonlicensee Most of the shows were promoted by ap- Since 1994, the Brady Act has prevented well sought to transfer a firearm, an FFL would proximately 175 organizations and individ- over 250,000 prohibited persons from acquir- be responsible for positively identifying the uals. Most promoters are State and local ing firearms from FFLs. purchaser, conducting a Brady Act check on firearms collector organizations with large The Brady Act, however, does not apply to the purchaser, and maintaining a record of memberships, including one group that has the sale of firearms by nonlicensees, who the transaction. This is the same system 28,000 members. The remainder of the gun make up one-quarter or more of the sellers of that has been used successfully for many shows were promoted by individual collec- firearms at gun shows. While FFLs are re- years when someone wishes to transfer a tors and businesspeople. Ordinarily, gun quired to maintain careful records of their firearm to a nonlicensee in another State. shows are held in public arenas, civic cen- Fourth, FFLs would be responsible for sub- sales and, under the Brady Act, to check the ters, fairgrounds, and armories, and the ven- mitting strictly limited information con- purchaser’s background with NICS before dor rents a table from the promoter for a fee cerning all firearms transferred at gun shows transferring any firearm, nonlicensees have ranging from $5 to $50. The number of tables (e.g., manufacturing/importer, model, and se- no such requirements under current law. at shows varies from as few as 50 to as many rial number) to ATF’s National Tracing, Thus, felons and other prohibited persons as 2,000. Center (NTC). No information about either Most of the shows are open to the public, who want to avoid Brady Act checks and the seller or the purchaser would be given to and individuals generally pay an admission records of their purchase buy firearms at the Government (with the exception of in- price of $5 or more to the promoter. In rare these shows. Indeed, a review of criminal in- stances in which multiple sales are required.2 instances, public access is limited by invita- vestigations by the Bureau of Alcohol, To- Instead, the licensees would maintain this tion only. Most gun shows occur over a 2-day bacco and Firearms (ATF) reveals a wide va- information in their files, as is done with all period, generally on weekends, and draw an riety of violations occurring at gun shows firearms sold by FFL today. The NTC would average of 2,500–5,000 people per show.4 and substantial numbers of firearms associ- request this information from an FFL only Both FFLs and nonlicensees sell firearms ated with gun shows being used in drug in the event that the firearm subsequently at these shows. FFLs make up 50 to 75 per- crimes and crimes of violence, as well as became the subject of a law enforcement cent of the vendors at most gun shows. The being passed illegally to juveniles. trace request. majority of vendors who attend shows sell On November 6, 1998, President Clinton de- Fifth, the Department of the Treasury and firearms and associated accessories and termined that all gun show vendors should the Department of Justice will review the other paraphernalia. Examples of accessories have access to the same information about definition of ‘‘engaged in business’’ and and paraphernalia include holsters, tactical firearms purchasers.1 He directed the Sec- make recommendations for legislative or gear, knives, ammunitions, clothing, food, retary of the Treasury and the Attorney regulatory changes to better identify and military artifacts, books, and other lit- General to close the gun show loophole. prosecute, in all appropriate circumstances, erature. Some of the vendors offer acces- illegal traffickers in firearms and suppliers sories and paraphernalia only and do not sell 1 Footnotes follow this text. of guns to criminals. firearms. H8606 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE September 23, 1999 Public markets for the sale of firearms are licensed vendors, and felons conspiring with domestic disturbance. The defendant pled not limited to the specialized firearms FFLs.13 The investigations also involved a guilty to numerous Federal firearms viola- shows. Large quantities of firearms are also wide variety of firearms, including hand- tions and was sentenced to 27 months’ im- sold by nonlicensees at flea markets and guns, semiautomatic assault rifles, and ma- prisonment. other organized events. As some flea mar- chineguns. In addition to analyzing the ATF inves- kets, FFLs have established permanent Together, the ATF investigations paint a tigations, ATF supplemented the informa- premises from which they conduct their disturbing picture of gun shows as a venue tion with data from the NTC. Approximately business. for criminal activity and a source of fire- 254 individuals identified in the ATF gun Both the specialized firearms shows and arms used in crimes. Felons, although pro- show-related investigations were checked the broader commercial venues such as flea hibited from acquiring firearms, have been against data in the Firearms Tracing System markets are collectively referred to as ‘‘gun able to purchase firearms at gun shows. In and related data bases. Of these, 44 appeared shows’’ in the remainder of this report. fact, felons buying or selling firearms were in the multiple purchase records with an av- Types of Firearms Sold involved in more than 46 percent of the in- erage of 59 firearms per person. Of the 44 in- vestigations involving gun shows.14 In more The types and variety of firearms offered dividuals, 15 were associated with 50 or more than a third of the investigations, the fire- for sale at gun shows include new and used multiple sale firearms; these individuals had arms involved were known to have been used a total of 188 crime guns traced to them, an handguns, semiautomatic assault weapons,5 in subsequent crimes.15 These crimes in- average of approximately 13 firearms each. shotguns, rifles, and curio or relic firearms.6 cluded drug offenses, felons in possession of a In addition, vendors offer large capacity The largest number of multiple sales fire- firearm, assault, robbery, burglary, and arms associated with one individual was 472; magazines 7 and machinegun parts 8 for sale. homicide.16 The ‘‘high-end’’ collector and antique this individual had 53 crime guns traced to Firearms involved in the 314 reviewed in- him. These patterns are not in and of them- shows and the sporting recreational shows vestigations numbered more than 54,000.17 A are generally produced by the sporting orga- selves proof of trafficking. Rather, they are large number of these firearms were sold or indicators investigators use to assist in traf- nizations or avid collectors and enthusiasts. purchased at gun shows. More than one-third The overall knowledge of the Federal fire- ficking investigations. of the investigations involved more than 50 It is difficult to determine the precise ex- arms laws and regulations by these pro- firearms, and nearly one-tenth of the inves- tent of criminal activities at gun shows, moters is good, and the weapons offered for tigations involved more than 250 firearms. partly because of the lack of obligations sale are mostly curios or relics or higher The two largest investigations were reported upon unlicensed vendors to keep any records. quality modern weapons. At other shows, to have involved up to 7,000 and 10,000 fire- Nevertheless, the information obtained from vendors may be less knowledgeable about the arms, respectively. These numbers include the ATF investigations demonstrates that Federal firearms laws, and many of the guns both new and used firearms.18 criminals are able to obtain firearms with no sold are of lower quality and less expensive. The investigations reveal a diversity of background check and that crime guns are Atmosphere Federal firearms violations associated with transferred at gun shows with no records The casual atmosphere in which firearms gun shows.19 Examples of these violations in- kept of the transaction. clude straw purchases,20 out-of-State sales are sold at gun shows provides an oppor- 2. CURRENT LAW AND REGULATION OF GUN by FFLs, transactions by FFLs without tunity for individual buyers and sellers to SHOWS exchange firearms without the expense of Brady Act checks, and the sale of kits that The gun show loophole results both from renting a table, and it is not uncommon to modify semiautomatic firearms into auto- the existing legal framework governing fire- see people walking around a show attempt- matic firearms. Engaging in the business arms transactions and the limits on the ap- ing to sell a firearm. They may sell the fire- without a license was involved in more than plication of existing laws to gun shows. Gun arms to a vendor who has rented a table or half of all the investigations. Nearly 20 per- shows themselves are not subject to Federal simply to someone they meet at the show. cent involved FFLs who were selling fire- regulation. Instead, only transfers by FFLs Many nonlicensees entice potential cus- arms ‘‘off-the-book.’’ 21 The central violation at gun shows are regulated. Few limitations tomers to their tables with comments such in approximately 15 percent of the investiga- apply to sales by nonlicensees at gun shows as, ‘‘No background checks required; we need tions was the transfer of firearms to prohib- or elsewhere. The Federal legal framework only to know where you live and how old you ited persons such as felons or juveniles not governing gun shows and firearms vendors, are.’’ Many of these unlicensed vendors ac- authorized to possess firearms. Nearly 20 per- as well as the State legal framework gov- tively acquire firearms from other vendors cent of the investigations involved viola- erning gun shows, is summarized below. to satisfy a buyer’s request for a specific tions of the National Firearms Act (NFA), firearm that the vendor does not currently which regulates the possession of certain The Federal Framework possess. Some unlicensed vendors replenish firearms such as machineguns.22 Federal Regulations of Firearms Vendors An examination of individual cases illus- and subsequently dispose of their inventories Licensed firearms dealers within a matter of days, often at the same trates how gun shows are connected to The GCA requires that those seeking to show. Although the majority of people who criminal activity. ‘‘engage in the business’’ of importing, man- visit gun shows are law-abiding citizens, too In 1993, ATF uncovered a Tennessee FFL ufacturing, or dealing in firearms must ob- often the shows provide a ready supply of who purchased more than 7,000 firearms, al- tain a Federal firearms license from the Sec- firearms to prohibited persons, gangs, vio- tered the serial numbers, and resold them to retary of the Treasury.23 The Federal fire- lent criminals, and illegal firearms traf- two unlicensed dealers who subsequently arms license entitles the holder to ship, fickers. transported and sold the firearms at gun transport, and receive firearms in interstate Many Federal firearms licensees have com- shows and flea markets in North Carolina. or foreign commerce.24 The bearer of that li- plained to ATF about the conduct of non- The scheme involved primarily new and used cense, the FFL, must comply with the obli- licensees at gun shows.9 These licensees are handguns. All three pled guilty to Federal gations that accompany the license. In par- understandably concerned that the casual firearms violations. The FFL was sentenced ticular, FFLs must maintain records of all atmosphere of gun shows, combined with the to 15 months’ imprisonment; the unlicensed acquisitions and dispositions of firearms and absence of any requirement that an unli- dealers were sentenced to 21 and 25 months’ comply with all State and local laws in censed vendor check the background of a imprisonment, respectively. In 1994, ATF recovered two 9mm firearms transferring any firearms.25 They must posi- firearms purchaser, provides an opportunity and the NTC traced them to an FFL in Whit- tively identify the purchaser by inspecting a for felons and other prohibited persons to ac- tier, California. The FFL had sold over 1,700 Government-issued photographic identifica- quire firearms. Because Federal law neither firearms to unlicensed purchasers over a 4- tion, such as a driver’s license. FFLs must requires the creation of any record of these year period without maintaining any also complete a multiple sales report if they unlicensed sales nor places any obligations records. Many of the sales occurred at swap sell two or more handguns to the same pur- upon gun show promoters, information is meets in California. The firearms were then chaser within 5 business days. FFLs may not rarely available about the firearms sold sold to gang members in Santa Ana and transfer firearms to felons, persons who have should they be recovered in a crime. Long Beach, California. Many of the firearms been committed to mental institutions, ille- Gun Shows and Crime were recovered in crimes of violence, includ- gal aliens, or other prohibited persons.26 It is hardly surprising, therefore, that a re- ing homicide. Of the five defendants charged, FFLs also may not knowingly transfer fire- view of ATF’s recent investigations indicates two were convicted—the FFL and one of his arms to underage persons or handguns to that gun shows provide a forum for illegal unlicensed purchasers. Each was sentenced persons who do not reside in the State where firearms sales and trafficking. In preparing to 24 months’ imprisonment. they are licensed.27 this report, the Department of the Treasury, In 1995, an ATF inspector in Pontiac, FFLs must also comply with the provi- the Department of Justice, ATF, and outside Michigan, discovered a convicted felon who sions of the Brady Act prior to transferring researchers 10 reviewed 314 recent investiga- used a false police identification to buy any firearm to a nonlicensee. The Brady Act tions that involved guns shows in some ca- handguns at gun shows and resold them for requires licensees to contact NICS prior to pacity.11 The investigative reports came profit. Among the firearms purchased were transferring a firearm to any nonlicensed from each of ATF’s 23 field divisions sixteen new and inexpensive 9mm and .380 person in order to determine whether receipt throughout the country 12 and involved a caliber handguns. Detroit police recovered of a firearm by the prospective purchaser wide range of criminal activity by FFLs, un- several of the firearms while investigating a would be in violation of Federal or State September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8607 law.28 FFLs must maintain a record but need manufacturing, or dealing in firearms. When or persons who are intoxicated, mentally dis- not contact NICS when they sell from their Congress enacted the GCA in 1968, it did not turbed, or under the influence of drugs. Some personal collection of firearms. Federal law provide a definition of the term ‘‘engaged in States require permits to obtain a firearm requires licensees to respond to requests for the business.’’ Courts interpreting the term and impose a waiting period before the per- firearms tracing information within 24 supplied various definitions,45 and upheld mit is issued (e.g., 14 days in Hawaii). Other hours.29 Moreover, ATF has a statutory right convictions for engaging in the business States impose additional requirements (such to conduct warrantless inspections of the without a license under a variety of factual as completion of a firearms safety course in records and inventory of Federal firearms li- circumstances.46 California) to obtain a license or permit. censees.30 An FFL who willfully violates any In 1986, the law was amended to provide the Some impose a waiting period for all fire- of the licensing requirements may have his following definition: arms (e.g., Massachusetts), others only for or her license revoked and is subject to im- (21) The term ‘‘engaged in the business’’ handguns (e.g., Connecticut). Maryland di- prisonment for not more than 5 years, a fine means— rectly regulates the sale of firearms by non- of not more than $250,000, or both.31 * * * * * licensees at gun shows, requiring non- The obligations imposed upon FFLs serve (C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, . . . licensees selling handguns or assault weap- to implement the crime-reduction goals of a person who devotes time, attention, and ons at a gun show to undergo a backgound the GCA. For example, the recordkeeping re- labor to dealing in firearms as a regular check to obtain a temporary transfer permit, quirements, interstate controls, and other course of trade or business with the principal and limits individuals to five such permits requirements imposed on licensees are de- objective of livelihood and profit through the per year. Exhibit 2 provides an overview of the laws signed to allow the tracing of crime guns repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, of those States that regulate the transfer of through the records of FFLs and to give but such term shall not include a person who some or all firearms by persons not licensed States the opportunity to enforce their fire- makes occasional sales, exchanges, or pur- 32 as a dealer, and of those States that directly arms laws. chases of firearms for the enhancement of a regulate gun shows. None of the solutions Licensed firearms collectors personal collection or for a hobby, or who proposed in this report will affect any State The GCA also requires persons to obtain a sells all or part of his personal collection of law or regulation that is more restrictive license as a collector of firearms 33 if they firearms. . . .47 wish to ship, transport, and receive firearms The 1986 amendments to the GCA also de- than the Federal law. classified as ‘‘curios or relics’’ in interstate fined the term ‘‘with the principal objective 3. EARLIER LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS AND or foreign commerce.34 For transactions in- of livelihood and profit’’ to read as follows: COMMENTS FROM INTERESTED PARTIES volving firearms other than curios or relics, (22) The term ‘‘with the principal objective In developing the recommendations of this the licensed collector has the same status as of livelihood and profit’’ means that the in- report, prior legislative proposals addressing a nonlicensee. ‘‘Curio or relic’’ firearms gen- tent underlying the sale or disposition of gun shows were considered along with re- erally are firearms that are of special inter- firearms is predominantly one of obtaining sults of surveys of United States Attorneys, est to collectors and are at least 50 years old livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to interest groups, and individuals concerned or derive their value from association with a other intents, such as improving or liqui- with firearms issues. Comments from FFLs historical figure, period, or event.35 A li- dating a personal firearms collection; Pro- and law enforcement officials were also con- censed collector may buy and sell curio or vided, That proof of profit shall not be re- sidered. relic firearms for the purpose of enhancing quired as to a person who engages in the reg- Legislative Proposals his or her personal collection, but may not ular and repetitive purchase and disposition In the 105th Congress, Representative Rod lawfully engage in a firearms business in of firearms for criminal purposes or ter- Blagojevich introduced legislation address- 48 curio or relic firearms without obtaining a rorism. . . . ing gun shows, H.R. 3833. Senator Frank Lau- 36 dealer’s license. Recordkeeping require- Unfortunately, the effect of the 1986 tenberg introduced a similar bill, S. 2527. The ments are imposed on licensed collectors, amendments has often been to frustrate the proposed bills generally required any person and ATF has a statutory right to conduct prosecution of unlicensed dealers wishing to operate a ‘‘gun show’’ to obtain a warrantless inspections of the records and masquerading as collectors or hobbyists but license from the Secretary of the Treasury 37 inventory of such licensees. Licensed col- who are really trafficking firearms to felons and to provide 30 days’ advance notice of the lectors, like other licensees, are required to or other prohibited persons. date and location of each gun show held. The respond to requests for firearms trace infor- Federal Regulation of Gun Shows gun show licensee would be required to com- 38 mation within 24 hours. However, licensed Current Federal law does not regulate gun ply with the provisions applicable to dealers collectors are not subject to the require- shows. The GCA does regulate the conduct of under the Brady Act, the general record- 39 ments of the Brady Act. FFLs who offer firearms for sale at gun keeping provisions of the GCA, and the mul- Nonlicensed firearms sellers shows. Although the GCA generally limits li- tiple sales reporting requirements. These re- In contrast to licensed dealers, non- censees to conduct business only from their quirements would apply only to transfers of licensees can sell firearms without inquiring licensed premises,49 in 1984, ATF issued a firearms at the gun show by unlicensed per- into the identity of the person to whom they regulation allowing licensees to conduct sons. Unlicensed vendors would be required are selling, making any record of the trans- business temporarily at certain gun shows to provide the gun show licensee with writ- action, or conducting NICS checks.40 Because located in the same State as their licensed ten notice prior to transferring a firearm at nonlicensed gun show vendors are not sub- premises.50 The regulatory provision was the gun show. The gun show licensee would ject to the Brady Act and indeed cannot now codified into the law as part of the 1986 also be required to deliver to the Secretary conduct a NICS check under Federal law, amendments to the GCA. To qualify for the of the Treasury all records of firearms trans- they often have no way of knowing whether exception, the gun show or event must be fers collected during the show within 30 days they are selling a firearm to a felon or other sponsored by a national, State, or local orga- after the show. prohibited person. The GCA does, however, nization devoted to the collection, competi- Responses to Surveys prohibit nonlicensed persons from acquiring tive use, or other sporting use of firearms; United States Attorneys firearms from out-of-State dealers and pro- and the gun show or event must be held in The Department of Justice requested infor- hibits nonlicensees from shipping or trans- the State where the licensee’s premises is lo- mation from United States Attorneys re- porting firearms in interstate or foreign cated. garding their experience prosecuting cases commerce.41 Nonlicensees are also prohibited As a result, an FFL may buy and sell fire- involving illegal activities at gun shows or from transferring a firearm to a nonlicensed arms at a gun show provided he or she other- in the ‘‘secondary market.’’ 51 Those United person who the transferor knows or has rea- wise complies with all the GCA requirements States Attorneys who reported cases were sonable cause to believe does not reside in governing licensee transfers. Nonlicensees, asked to describe any particular problems of the State in which the transferor resides.42 A however, may freely transfer firearms at a proof that arose in the cases and whether the nonlicensee also may not transfer a firearm gun show without observing the record- existing levels of prosecutional and inves- to any person knowing or having reasonable keeping and background check requirements tigative resources are adequate to address cause to believe that the transferee is a felon imposed upon licensees. the violations that are identified. Finally, or other prohibited person.43 Finally, non- State Statutory and Regulatory Framework they were asked for their proposals on how licensed persons may not transfer handguns More than half of the States impose no to curtail illegal activity at gun shows. to persons under the age of 18.44 Of course, prohibition on the private transfer of fire- Some United States Attorneys’ offices because nonlicensees are not required to in- arms among nonlicensed persons and do not have had significant experience inves- spect the buyer’s driver’s license or other regulate the operation of gun shows. In some tigating and prosecuting cases involving ille- identification, they may never know that States, the only restrictions imposed on the gal activities at gun shows, while others re- the buyer is underage. private sales or transfers of firearms are ported no experience with these cases at all. ‘‘Engaged in the Business’’ similar to certain prohibitions set forth by Several common themes emerge from the re- Whether an individual seeking to sell a the GCA. For example, Arkansas, Oklahoma, sponses. firearm will be regulated as an FFL or non- Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi prohibit There was widespread agreement among licensee depends on whether that individual the transfer of certain firearms to felons; mi- United States Attorneys that it can be dif- is ‘‘engaged in the business’’ of importing, nors (or minors without parental consent); ficult to prove that a nonlicensed person is H8608 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE September 23, 1999 ‘‘engaging in the business’’ of firearms deal- gun shows. Many of these FFLs supported a check on every firearms transfer by an unli- ing without a license under current law. The ban on firearms sales by unlicensed persons censed dealer. HCI also suggested that a 30- definitions create substantial investigative or, if permitted, urged that Brady checks be day temporary license be issued (limited to and proof problems.52 Significant undercover required to prevent prohibited persons from one per year) to any individual wishing to work and follow-up by ATF required to pre- acquiring firearms. Other FFLs expressed sell at a gun show. The proposed license pare a case against someone for ‘‘engaging in frustration that unlicensed persons were able would permit the sale of no more than 20 the business.’’ to sell to buyers without any paperwork (and handguns, the serial numbers of which would The United States Attorneys were vir- advertise this fact), leaving the FFL at a be included in the license application. HCI tually unanimous in their call for additional competitive disadvantage. Others suggested suggested that ‘‘engaged in the business’’ be resources. The number of ATF agents avail- that all vendors, licensed or not, should fol- defined to limit the number of handguns sold able to investigate cases in many judicial low the same requirements whether at gun from a ‘‘personal collection’’ to no more districts falls far below the number required shows, flea markets, or other places where than 3 in a 30-day period. This restriction to mount effective enforcement activities at guns are sold. Many of the FFLs recom- would not apply to sales to licensees or with- gun shows. United States Attorneys also mending additional regulations provided in one’s immediate family. The Coalition to noted that it will be difficult to devote suggestions, some quite detailed, for closing Stop Handgun Violence suggested licensing scarce prosecutorial resources to gun show the gun show loophole. These suggestions in- promoters, requiring a background check on cases, so long as a number of the offenses re- cluded registering all firearms owners, li- all gun purchases, additional recordkeeping, main misdemeanors. censing promoters, restricting attendance at a limit on the number of firearms purchased United States Attorneys offered a wide gun shows, conducting surprise raids at gun by any one person at a gun show, and in- range of proposals to address the gun show shows, requiring that all transfers go creased enforcement resources and penalties. loophole. These include the following: (1) al- through an FFL, and requiring a booth for The Trauma Foundation of San Francisco lowing only FFLs to sell guns at gun shows law enforcement to conduct background recommended requiring a background check so that a background check and a firearms checks for all firearms purchases. for all firearms sales, licensing promoters, transaction record accompany every trans- A number of the FFLs who responded be- permitting only FFLs to sell at gun shows, action; (2) strengthening the definition of lieved that the problems at gun shows could and limiting the number of firearms pur- ‘‘engaged in the business’’ by defining the be solved if current laws were more strictly chased at a gun show. The United States terms with more precision, narrowing the ex- enforced. Several of these respondents noted Conference of Mayors supported one-gun-a- ception for ‘‘hobbyists,’’ and lowering the in- that ATF is already ‘‘spread too thin’’ to en- month legislation, background checks on all tent requirement; (3) limiting the number of force additional laws. Others suggested that purchases, and increased funding for law en- private sales permitted by an individual to a courts need to do a better job of enforcing forcement. Finally, in reply to open letters posted on specified number per year; (4) requiring per- the existing laws. Many others preferred the Internet, ATF received 274 responses. sons who sell guns in the secondary market stiffer sentences for violators of existing law. The vast majority of these responses either to comply with the recordkeeping require- More than half, however, stated that new opposed any new restrictions on gun shows ments that are applicable to FFLs; (5) re- laws or restrictions are not the answer. Of or favored enforcement of existing law. Ap- quiring all transfers in the secondary market this group, many stated that they do not see proximately 5 percent favored new laws, usu- to go through an FFL; (6) establishing proce- any illegal activity at gun shows and con- ally suggesting a background check for fire- dures for the orderly liquidation of inventory cluded that no new laws are necessary. Oth- arms purchasers. belonging to FFLs who surrender their li- ers expressed their belief that sales of pri- cense; (7) requiring registration of non- vate property should not be federally regu- 4. RECOMMENDATIONS licensed persons who sell guns; (8) increasing lated, or they expressed distrust of the Gov- Summary of the Recommendations the punishment for transferring a firearm ernment in general. Also included in this These recommendations close the gun without a background check as required by group were FFLs who reported that they do show loophole by adding reasonable restric- the Brady Act; (9) requiring the gun show not sell at gun shows for a variety of reasons tions and conditions of firearms transfers at promoters to be licensed and maintain an in- but oppose new regulations nonetheless. gun shows.53 The recommendations also en- ventory of all the firearms that are sold by Interest Groups, Trade Groups, and Other sure that there are adequate resource to en- FFLs and non-FFLs at a gun show; (10) re- Responses force the law and that all would-be sellers of quiring that one or more ATF agents be firearms at gun shows understand the law Eight responses were received from fire- present at every gun show; and (11) insu- and the consequences of illegally disposing arms interest or trade groups. The National lating unlicensed vendors from criminal li- of guns. Each recommendation will be dis- Rifle Association (NRA) opposes any changes ability if they agree to have purchasers com- cussed in detail, but they may be summa- to existing laws, contending that only 2 per- plete a firearms transaction form. rized as follows: A small number of United States Attor- cent of firearms used by criminals come 1. Define ‘‘gun show’’ to include specialized neys suggesting that existing laws are ade- from gun shows. The NRA suggested that gun events, as well as flea markets and other quate even though the resources available to regulating the private sale of firearms would markets outside of licensed firearms shops at enforce these laws are not. While gun shows create a vast bureaucratic infrastructure and which 50 or more firearms, in total, are of- do not appear to be a problem in every juris- that ATF should instead continue to pros- fered for sale by 2 or more persons. diction, the majority of United States Attor- ecute those who illegally trade in firearms. 2. Require gun show promoters to register neys agreed that gun shows are part of a The NRA also suggested that many of the and to notify ATF of all gun shows, maintain larger, pervasive problem of firearms trans- current unlicensed dealers would be under and report a list of vendors at the show, and fers in the secondary market. ATF scrutiny had they not been discouraged ensure that all vendors acknowledge receipt from holding a firearms license. The NRA ex- Law Enforcement Officials of information about their legal obligations. pressed willingness to publicize the licensing Of the 18 State law enforcement officials 3. Require that all firearms transactions at requirements for those who deal in firearms. a gun show be completed through an FFL. who responded to the survey, only 1 opposed Similarly, Gun Owners of America rec- new restrictions on gun shows. Seventeen of- The FFL would be responsible for conducting ommended no changes to existing law, but a NICS check on the purchaser and main- ficials share the President’s concern with the suggested a ‘‘stop to this insidious ongoing sale of firearms at gun shows without a taining records of the transactions. The fail- Federal government assault on American ure to conduct a NICS check would be a fel- background check or other recordkeeping re- citizenry and to return to the rule of law.’’ quirements and support changes to make ony for licensees and nonlicensees. By contrast, the National Alliance of 4. Require FFLs to submit information these requirements for all gun show trans- Stocking Gun Dealers (NASGD), a trade as- necessary to trace all firearms transferred at fers. The majority of respondents urged that sociation consisting of firearms dealers, sug- gun shows to ATF’s National Tracing Center. any changes apply not only to gun shows but gested that every firearm sale at a gun show This information would include the manu- to flea markets, swap meets, and other be regulated and that the purchaser undergo facturer/importer, model, and serial number venues where firearms are bought and sold. a NICS check. In addition, NASGD sug- of the firearms. No information about either Several respondents suggested limits on the gested: (1) licensing all gun show promoters, an unlicensed seller or the purchaser would number of gun shows or caps on the quan- auctioneers, and exhibitors; (2) limiting the be given to the Government. Instead, as tities of guns sold by nonlicensees. Others number of times an FFL may sell at gun today with all firearms sold by licensees, the urged increased cooperation with the United shows in a given year; (3) having non- FFLs would maintain this information in States Attorneys to assist in the prosecution licensees comply with the same standards as their files. of those individuals who violate Federal fire- FFLs; (4) requiring promoters to provide 5. Review the definition of ‘‘engaged in the arms laws. Finally, the National Sheriffs As- ATF and other authorities with the list of business’’ and make recommendations with- sociation suggested that gun show operators vendors at a gun show; and (5) having pro- in 90 days for legislative or regulatory be required to obtain a permit and notify moters maintain firearms transaction changes to better identify and prosecute, in ATF of any gun show. records and NICS transaction records for all all appropriate circumstances, illegal traf- FFLs firearms sold at a gun show. fickers in firearms and suppliers of guns to FFLs submitted 219 responses, of which ap- Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI), suggested criminals. proximately 30 percent requested additional that gun show promoters be licensed and 6. Provide additional resources to combat regulations to prevent unlawful activities at that they be authorized to conduct a NICS the illegal trade of firearms at gun shows. September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8609 7. In conjunction with the firearms indus- learn the identities of the vendors so that FFLs’ knowledge of firearms, and the FFLs’ try, educate gun owners that, should they they can plan for the show. For example, the access to NICS. sell or otherwise dispose of their firearms, promoter can determine which of the FFLs The unlicensed seller may not transfer the they need to do so responsibly to ensure that will conduct background checks for non- firearm to the purchaser until the seller re- they do not fall into the hands of felons, un- licensees and, if a significant number of non- ceives verification that the transfer FFL has authorized juveniles, or other prohibited per- licensees plan to participate in the show, the performed a NICS background check on the sons. promoter can plan to have enough ‘‘transfer’’ purchaser and learned that there is no dis- Explanation of the Recommendations FFLs 55 present to meet the demand for NICS qualifying information. The FFL’s role is checks. limited to facilitating the transfer by per- Definition of Gun Show Although vendors who do not sign up for forming the NICS check and keeping the re- There would be a new statutory definition the gun show by the time that the promoter quired records. Any FFL or non-FFL who of ‘‘gun show.’’ 54 The definition would read submits the 72-hour notice may still sign up transfers a firearm in whole or in part at a as follows: ‘‘Gun Show. Any event (1) at to participate at the show, they will be re- gun show without completing a NICS check which 50 or more firearms, 1 or more of quired to sign the promoter’s ledger ac- on the purchaser to determine that the which has been shipped or transported in knowledging their legal obligations before transferee is not prohibited could be charged interstate or foreign commerce, are offered they may transact business. The promoter with a felony.56 or exhibited for sale, transfer or exchange; will be required to submit the ledger to ATF Prohibiting any firearms from being sold, and (2) at which 2 or more persons are offer- within 5 business days of the end of the show. transferred, or exchanged in whole or in part ing or exhibiting firearms for sale, transfer, All vendors will also be required to present at a gun show until the transferee has been or exchange.’’ to the promoter a valid driver’s license or cleared by a background check establishes This definition encompasses not only other Government-issued photographic iden- parameters that encompass all vendors, re- events at which the primary commodities tification. gardless of whether they are licensed. No displayed and sold are firearms but quali- A gun show promoter who fails to register FFL may claim that a background check is fying flea markets, swap meets, and other or comply with any of these requirements not required because the firearm is being secondary markets where guns are sold as would be subject to having his or her reg- sold out of the FFL’s personal collection, nor well. Requiring there to be two or more per- istration denied, suspended, or revoked, as will the distinction between FFLs and non- sons offering firearms exempts from the defi- well as being subject to other civil or admin- licensed dealers make any difference for nition FFLs selling guns at their business lo- istrative penalties. Certain violations would NICS checks. When any part of the trans- cation, as well as the individual selling a be subject to criminal penalties. Vendors action takes place at a gun show,57 each and personal gun collection at a garage or yard who sell at gun shows without signing the every vendor at a gun show will require a sale. In addition, the legislation requires a promoter’s ledger would be similarly subject transferee to undergo a background check minimum of 50 firearms to be offered for sale to civil and criminal penalties. In addition, before the firearm can be transferred.58 in order for an event to become a gun show if the vendor provides false information to Records for Tracing Crime Guns that is subject to the other new require- the promoter in the ledger, the vendor would Before clearing a transfer of any firearm ments. This minimum quantity ensures that be liable for making a false statement. by a nonlicensee, the transfer FFL would private sales of a small number of firearms Imposing these requirements on gun show complete a form similar to the firearms can continue to take place without being promoters will make them more accountable transaction record currently used by FFLs. subject to the new requirements. for controlling their shows and ensuring that This firearms transaction record would be Gun Show Promoters only vendors who comply with the law par- maintained in the FFL’s records, along with Any person who organizes, plans, promotes ticipate at gun shows. Although promoters the other records of firearms transferred di- or operates a gun show, as newly defined, will not be directly responsible for the per- rectly by the FFL. would be required to register with ATF. Gun formance of NICS background checks at gun In addition, FFLs would be responsible for show promoters would complete a simple shows, it will be in the promoter’s interest submitting to the NTC strictly limited infor- form which entitles the promoter to operate to make sure that background checks are mation concerning firearms transferred at a gun show. The registration requirement being performed in connection with each and gun shows, whether the FFL is the seller or would go into effect 6 months after the en- every firearms transfer that takes place in merely the transfer FFL. The information actment of the legislation to allow time for whole or in part at the gun show. Gun show would consist of the manufacturer/importer, gun show promoters to comply. promoters profit greatly from the gun sales model, and serial number of the firearm. No Thirty days before any gun show, a pro- that take place at gun shows. However, until personal information about either the seller moter would be required to inform ATF of now, the Federal Government has not im- or the purchaser would be given to the Gov- the dates, duration, and estimated number of posed any obligations on the promoter to en- ernment. Instead, as today with all firearms vendors who are expected to participate. courage compliance with the law by all of sold by FFLs, the licensees would maintain This information serves four purposes: First, the participants at the gun show. Placing an this information in their files. The NTC it advises ATF that a gun show will be tak- affirmative obligation on gun show pro- would request this information from an FFL ing place. If ATF is in the process of inves- moters to notify vendors of their legal obli- only in the event that the firearm subse- tigating individuals who are violating the gations will go a long way toward ensuring quently becomes the subject of a law en- law at gun shows in a particular field divi- that only lawful transactions take place at forcement trace request. In addition, FFLs sion, the advance notice will assist ATF in gun shows. would complete a multiple sale form if they determining whether the target of the inves- Requiring vendors to sign the ledger and record the sale by a nonlicensee of two or tigation might appear at the gun show. Sec- acknowledge that they have received infor- more handguns to the same purchaser within ond, the information gives ATF a good idea mation about and understand their legal ob- 5 business days, as is currently required for about the scope and scale of the gun show to ligations will prevent vendors from claiming transactions by FFLs. enable the agency to make the determina- that they did not know that they were re- This requirement provides a simple and tion whether ATF should allocate resources quired to complete all firearms transactions easy-to-administer means of reestablishing to the show for the purpose of investigating at a gun show through an FFL. the chain of ownership for guns that are possible crimes there. Third, it allows ATF NICS Checks transferred at gun shows. If the firearm ap- to notify State and local law enforcement No gun would be sold, transferred, or ex- pears at a crime scene and there is a legiti- about the show, as suggested by the National changed at a gun show before a NICS back- mate law enforcement need to trace the fire- Sheriffs Association. Finally, the notice in- ground check is performed on the transferee. arm, ATF will be able to match the serial volves the promoter at an early stage in the Brady Act permit exception would apply number of the crime gun to the record and identifying who is participating at the gun to firearms sales at gun shows. FFLs who identify the FFL who is maintaining the show. participate in the gun show would be re- firearms transaction form. ATF can then go Next, by no later than 72 hours before the quired to request NICS checks for all buyers, to the FFL who submitted the information gun show, the promoter would provide a sec- whether the FFL sells firearms out of the on the firearm and review the record that is ond notice to ATF identifying all the ven- FFL’s inventory or the FFL’s personal col- on file with the FFL. This form will contain dors who plan to participate at the show. lection. Nonlicensed sellers at the gun show information about the transferor and trans- The promoter’s notice would include the must arrange for all purchasers to go to a feree, and ATF can trace the firearm using names and licensing status, if any, of all transfer FFL to request a NICS check. Any that information. It is important to empha- those who have signed up to exhibit fire- FFL attending a gun show may act as a size that ATF traces guns according to spe- arms. The primary benefits of this notifica- transfer FFL to facilitate nonlicensee sales cific protocols and requirements, ensuring tion are twofold. First, the notice gives ATF of firearms. However, FFLs will not be re- that the firearms information will not be specific information about vendors who plan quired to perform this service; they will do used to identify purchasers of a particular to participate at the gun show, along with so only voluntarily. FFLs may choose to firearm except as required for a legitimate their status as an FFL or nonlicensee. For charge a fee for providing this service. By law enforcement purposes. any open investigations, this information having the FFL request the background Definition of ‘‘Engaged in the Business’’ would prove extremely useful in ATF’s en- check, the proposal takes full advantage of Not surprisingly, significant illegal dealing forcement activities. Second, promoters will the existing licensing scheme for FFLs, the in firearms by unlicensed persons occurs at H8610 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE September 23, 1999 gun shows. More than 50 percent of recent the need to exercise personal responsibility; tired law enforcement officers who are presented the ATF investigations of illegal activity at gun and distributing posters and handouts with magazines by their agencies upon retirement. (See shows focused on persons allegedly engaged tips for identifying and reporting suspicious 18 U.S.C. 922(w).) 8 The National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. in the business of dealing without a license. activity. Chapter 53, regulates machineguns, which are de- Unfortunately, the current definition of ‘‘en- 5. CONCLUSION fined as any weapon which shoots, is designed to gaged in the business’’ often frustrates the Although Brady Act background checks shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automati- prosecution of people who supply guns to fel- have been successful in preventing felons and cally more than one shot, without manual reloading, ons and other prohibited persons. Although other prohibited persons from buying fire- by a single function of the trigger. The term also in- illegal activities by unlicensed traffickers cludes the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any arms from FFLs, gun shows leave a major part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or often become evident to investigators quick- loophole in the regulation of firearms sales. combination of parts designed and intended, for use ly, months of undercover work and surveil- Gun shows provide a large market where in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any lance are frequently necessary to prove each criminals can shop for firearms anony- combination of parts from which a machinegun can of the elements in the current definition and mously. Unlicensed sellers have no way of be assembled if such parts are in the possession or to disprove the applicability of any of the knowing whether they are selling to a vio- under the control of a person. (See 26 U.S.C. 5845.) several statutory exceptions. lent felon or someone who intends to ille- Machineguns must be registered with the Secretary To draw a more distinct line between those of the Treasury, and those manufactured on or after gally traffic guns on the streets to juveniles May 19, 1986, are generally unlawful to possess. (See who are engaged in the business of firearms or gangs. Further, unscrupulous gun dealers 18 U.S.C. 922(o).) Parts for machineguns that do not dealing and those who are not, and to facili- can use these free-flowing markets to hide fall within the statutory definition of machinegun tate the prosecution of those who are ille- their off-the-book sales. While most gun (e.g., they are not conversion kits or frames or re- gally trafficking in guns to felons and other show sellers are honest and law-abiding, it ceivers) may be legally sold without restriction. prohibited persons—at gun shows and else- only takes a few to transfer large numbers of 9 When appropriate, ATF investigated these com- where—the GCA should be amended. Accord- firearms into dangerous hands. plaints and took action ranging from warning let- ingly, the Department of the Treasury and The proposals in this report strike a bal- ters explaining the need for a license to engage in the business of dealing in firearms, to referring a the Department of Justice will review the ance between the interests of law-abiding case to the United States Attorney for prosecution. definition of ‘‘engaged in the business’’ and citizens and the needs of law enforcement. 10 David M. Kennedy and Anthony Braga, both of make recommendations within 90 days for Specifically, the proposals will allow gun the John F. Kennedy School of Government, Har- legislative or regulatory changes to better shows to continue to provide a legal forum vard University. identify and prosecute, in all appropriate cir- for the sale and exchange of firearms and 11 See Appendix, table 1. The large majority of the cumstances, illegal traffickers in firearms will not prevent the sale or acquisition of investigations reviewed for this report were from and suppliers of guns to criminals. firearms by sportsmen and firearms enthu- 1997 and 1998. The remainder of the investigations was from the years 1994 through 1996, with one inves- Need for Additional Resources siasts. At the same time, this initiative will tigation each from 1991 and 1992. Forty-one inves- To adequately enforce existing law as well ensure background checks of all firearms tigations involved what may be described as flea as the foregoing proposals, more resources purchasers at gun shows and assist law en- markets, and three investigations involved firearms are needed. There are more than 4,000 spe- forcement in preventing firearms sales to sales at auctions. The methodology of the review cialized gun shows per year, and enforcement felons and other prohibited persons, as well and a more detailed analysis of the results are set forth in the appendix. and regulatory activity must also occur at as inhibiting illegal firearms trafficking. The proposals also ensure that gun show pro- 12 See Appendix, table 2. the other public venues where firearms are 13 moters run their shows responsibly, that all See Appendix, table 3. Current and former FFLs sold. were the subject of a significant number of inves- All of the previous recommendations will firearms purchases at gun shows are subject tigations. help close the existing gun show loophole, to NICS checks, and that all firearms sold at 14 See Appendix, table 3. but they will not completely eradicate the shows can be traced if they are used in 15 See Appendix, table 4. criminal activity at gun shows and in the crime. Further, these recommendations will 16 See Appendix, table 4. 17 rest of the secondary market. As the review guarantee that everyone selling at gun See Appendix, table 5. 18 See Appendix, table 6. Because tracing a firearm of ATF investigations and United States At- shows understands the legal obligations and the risks of disposing of firearms irrespon- generally requires an unbroken chain of dispositions torney prosecutions revealed, a substantial from manufacturer to first retail purchaser, used number of the crimes associated with gun sibly and that law enforcement has the re- guns—including those sold at gun shows—have rare- shows are committed by FFLs who deal off sources necessary to investigate and pros- ly been traceable. the book and ignore their legal obligations. ecute those who violate the law. In short, as 19 See Appendix, table 7. While a requirement that all gun show trans- requested by President Clinton, the pro- 20 A ‘‘straw purchase’’ occurs when the actual actions be recorded and NICS checks com- posals will close the gun show loophole. buyer of a firearm uses another person, the ‘‘straw purchaser,’’ to execute the paperwork necessary to pleted will make it somewhat easier to iden- FOOTNOTES purchase a firearm from an FFL. Specifically, the tify off-the-book dealers, a markedly in- 1 See exhibit 1. actual buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute the creased enforcement effort will be required 2 As required by the Gun Control Act, FFLs must firearms transaction record, purporting to show that to shut down these illegal markets. Further, complete multiple sales records whenever two or the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser of the ATF will need to focus on preventive edu- more handguns are sold to the same purchaser with- firearm. Often, a straw purchaser is used because the cational initiatives, as described below. To in 5 business days. actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the 3 accomplish all of these goals, significant re- ATF interviewed promoters, made field observa- firearm because of a felony conviction or another tions, and reviewed data obtained over a 5-year pe- disability. sources will be required for more criminal riod to provide information for this report. 21 ‘‘Off-the-book’’ sales are those made by FFLs and regulatory enforcement personnel, as 4 This information was provided by officials from without conducting Brady Act background checks well as prosecutors. the National Association of Arms Shows, which rep- and without recording the sale as required by the Without a commitment to financially sup- resents many of the gun show promoters. law and regulations. port his initiative, its effectiveness will be 5 Semiautomatic assault weapons may be legally 22 Under the NFA, certain firearms and other weap- limited. The Departments of Justice and the transferred in unrestricted commercial sales if they ons must be registered. (See 26 U.S.C. chapter 53.) Treasury will submit budget proposals to were manufactured on or before September 13, 1994. Table 8 shows the types of weapons involved in the Weapons manufactured after that date may be investigations involving NFA violations. For exam- fund this initiative at an appropriate level. transferred to or possessed by law enforcement ple, more than half of the NFA investigations in- Educational Campaign agencies, law enforcement officers employed by such volved machineguns, while 11 percent involved gre- Finally, a campaign should be undertaken agencies for official use, security guards employed nade launchers. in conjunction with the firearms industry to by nuclear power plants, and retired law enforce- 23 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(a)(1) and 923(a). 24 educate firearms owners that, should they ment officers who are presented the weapons by See id. their agencies upon retirement. (See 18 U.S.C. 25 See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(a)(1), (a)(3), (a)(5), (b)(2), and sell or otherwise dispose of their firearms, 922(v).) 923(g). they need to do so responsibly to ensure that 6 Curios or relics are firearms of special interest to 26 See 18 U.S.C. § 922(d). The 1986 amendments to the weapons do not fall into the hands of fel- collectors by reason of some quality other than the GCA also made it unlawful for any person to ons, unauthorized juveniles or other prohib- those associated with firearms intended for sporting transfer any firearm to any person knowing or hav- ited persons. The vast majority of firearms use or as offensive or defensive weapons. Curios or ing reasonable cause to believe that such person is owners are law-abiding and certainly do not relics include firearms that are at least 50 years old, a prohibited person. 27 want their firearms to be used for crime but, are certified by the curator of a Government mu- See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(b)(1), 922(b)(3), and 922(x). seum to be of museum interest, or are other fire- 28 See 18 U.S.C. § 922(t). A NICS check is not re- under the current system, they can unwit- arms that derive a substantial part of their value quired if the buyer represents to the FFL, a valid tingly sell firearms to prohibited persons. from the fact that they are novel, rare, or bizarre or permit to possess or acquire a firearm that was The educational campaign could involve because of their association with some historical issued not more than 5 years earlier by the State in setting up booths at gun shows to explain figure, period, or event. (See 27 CFR 178.11.) which the transfer is to take place, and the law of the law, encouraging unlicensed sellers to 7 Magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds the State provides that the permit is to be issued ‘‘know their buyer’’ by asking for identifica- may be transferred or possessed without restriction only after a Government official verifies that the in- tion and keeping a record of those to whom if they were manufactured on or before September formation available to the official, including a NICS 13, 1994. Large capacity magazines manufactured check, does not indicate that the possession of the they sell their firearms; developing videos after that date may be transferred to or possessed by firearm by the person would violate the law. and news articles for promoters, dealers, law enforcement agencies, law enforcement officers 29 See 18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(7). trade groups, and groups of firearms owners employed by such agencies for official use, security 30 See 18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(1)(B). Warrantless inspec- describing legal obligations and liability and guards employed by nuclear power plants, and re- tions are limited to those conducted (1) in the September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8611 course of a criminal investigation of a person other 52 A recent case of an unlicensed individual who crime and the fear of crime throughout the than the licensee, (2) during an annual compliance bought and sold numerous firearms illustrates the country. Our strategy is working. Through inspection, and (3) for purposes of firearms tracing. difficulty involved with prosecuting defendants the historic Violent Crime Control and Law Id. Inspections may also be conducted pursuant to a charges with engaging in the business of dealing in warrant issued by a Federal magistrate upon dem- firearms without a license. ATF agents discovered Enforcement Act of 1994, we have given com- onstration that there is reasonable cause to believe that an unlicensed person had purchased 124 hand- munities the tools and resources they need that a violation of the GCA has occurred and that guns and 27 long guns from an FFL, as well as addi- to help drive down the crime rate to its low- evidence of such violation may be found on the li- tional firearms from flea markets and garage sales. est point in a generation. Keeping guns out censee’s premises. See 18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(1)(A). When questioned, the defendant admitted that he in- of the hand of criminals through the Brady 31 See 18 U.S.C. § 923(e) and 924(a)(1)(D). Under cur- tended to resell them. At trial, the defendant con- Handgun Violence Prevention Act’s back- rent law, an FFL’s failure to perform a NICS check tended that buying and selling guns was his hobby. is a misdemeanor. The court, relying on the statutory definition, in- ground checks has also been a key part of 32 S. Rep No. 1501, 22, 25 (1968). structed the jury that a person engages in the busi- this strategy. Over the past 5 years, Brady 33 See 18 U.S.C. § 923(b). ness of dealing in firearms when it occupies time, background checks have helped prevent a 34 See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(a)(2), (a)(3). attention, and labor for the purpose of livelihood quarter of a million handgun sales to felons, 35 See 7 C.F.R. § 178.11. and profit, as opposed to as a pastime, hobby, or fugitives, domestic violence abusers, and 36 See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(a)(1), and 923(a). being a collector. When the jury asked for a defini- other prohibited purchasers—saving count- 37 See 18 U.S.C. §§ 923(g)(2), (g)(1)(C). tion of ‘‘livelihood,’’ the court explained that the less lives and preventing needless injuries. 38 See 18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(7). term was not defined in the law and that the jury 39 See 18 U.S.C. § 922(t)(1). needed to rely on its common understanding of the On November 30, 1998, the permanent provi- 40 See 18 U.S.C. §§ 922(t), and 923(g)(1)(A). term. The jury acquitted the defendant for engaging sions of the Brady Law will take effect, and 41 See 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(3). An exception to this rule in the firearms dealing business. However, the jury the Department of Justice will implement convicted the defendant for falsely stating on the is provided for sales of rifles or shotguns by licensed the National Instant Criminal Background dealers to nonlicensed persons if the purchaser ap- firearms transaction record executed at the time of pears in person at the dealer’s licensed premises and purchase that he was the actual buyer, when in fact, Check System (NICS). The NICS will allow the sale, delivery, and receipt comply with the legal he had intended to resell them. law enforcement officials access to a more conditions of sale in both the seller’s State and the 53 All of the recommendations except number 7 and inclusive set of records than is now available buyer’s State. See 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(3). part of number 5 would require legislation. and will—for the first time—extend the 42 See 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(5). Exceptions to this prohi- 54 Although the GCA does not define ‘‘gun show,’’ Brady Law’s background Law’s background bition are provided for transfers of firearms made to the GCA does refer to ‘‘gun shows’’ in 18 U.S.C. check requirement to long guns and firearm § 923(j), the exception that permits FFLs to sell fire- carry out a bequest or intestate succession of a fire- transfers at pawnshops. Under the NICS, the arm and for the loan or rental of a firearm for tem- arms away from their business premises under cer- porary use for lawful sporting purposes. Id. tain circumstances, including ‘‘gun shows.’’ overall number of background checks con- 43 See 18 U.S.C. § 922(d). 55 The transfer FFL does not act as the seller, but ducted before the purchase of a firearm will 44 See 18 U.S.C. § 922(x). A number of exceptions rather acts voluntarily in connection with a transfer increase from an estimated 4 million annu- apply to this prohibition, including temporary by a nonlicensee or licensed collector. ally to as many as 12 million. transfers in the course of employment, for ranching 56 The legislative proposal would elevate the grav- or farming, for target practice, for hunting, or for ity of the offense of not conducting a NICS check for We can, however, take additional steps to firearms safety instruction. These exceptions all re- FFLs from a misdemeanor—which is presently con- strengthen the Brady Law and help keep our quire that the juvenile to whom the handgun is tained in the Brady Act—to a felony regardless of streets safe from gun-carrying criminals. transferred obtain prior written consent from a par- the venue of the transaction. Under current law, firearms can be—and an ent or guardian and that the written consent be in 57 Requiring a NICS check when ‘‘any part of the untold number are—bought and sold entirely the juvenile’s possession at the time the juvenile transaction takes place at a gun show’’ensures that buyers and sellers do not attempt to avoid the re- without background checks, at the esti- possesses the handgun. Id. mated 5,000 private gun shows that take 45 Compare United States v. Gross, 451 F.2d 1355, 1357 quirement by completing only a part of the sale, ex- (7th Cir. 1971) (one engages in a firearms business change, or transfer at the gun show. For example, if place across the country. This loophole where one devotes time, attention and labor for the a nonlicensed vendor displays a gun at a gun show makes gun shows prime targets for criminals purpose of livelihood or profit) with United States v. but the actual transfer occurs outside the gun show and gun traffickers, and we have good reason Shirling, 572 F.2d 532, 534 (5th Cir. 1978) (profit motive in the parking lot, the vendor is prohibited from to believe that firearms sold in this way not determinative where one has firearms on hand transferring the gun without a NICS check on the have been used in serious crimes. In addi- purchaser. or ready to procure them for purpose of sale). tion, the failure to maintain records at gun 46 58 The recommendations made in this report would See United States v. Hernandez, 662 F.2d (5th Cir. shows often thwarts needed law enforcement 1981) (30 firearms bought and sold over a 4-month pe- be in addition to any requirements imposed under riod); United States v. Perkins, 633 F.2d 856 (8th Cir. State or local law. efforts to trace firearms. Just days ago, 1981) (three transactions involving eight firearms [Exhibit 1] Florida voters overwhelmingly passed a bal- over 3 months); United States v. Huffman, 518 F.2d 80 lot initiative designed to facilitate back- THE WHITE HOUSE, (4th Cir. 1975) (more than 12 firearms transactions ground checks at gun shows. It is now time OFFICE OF THE PRESS SECRETARY, over ‘‘a few months’’); United States v. Ruisi, 460 F.2d for the Federal Government to take appro- Highfill, AR, November 6, 1998. 153 (2d Cir. 1972) (codefendants sold 11 firearms at a priate action, on a national level, to close Memorandum for the Secretary of the Treas- single gun show); United States v. Gross, 451 F.2d 1355 this loophole in the law. (7th Cir. 1971) (11 firearms sold over 6 weeks); United ury States v. Zeidman, 444 F.2d 1051 (7th Cir. 1971) (six The Attorney General Therefore, I request that, within 60 days, firearms sold over 2 weeks). Subject: Preventing Firearms Sales to Pro- you recommend to me what actions our Ad- 47 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(C). ministration can take—including proposed 48 hibited Purchasers. 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(22). Since 1993, my Administration has worked legislation—to ensure that firearms sales at 49 18 U.S.C. § 923(a). 50 T.D. ATF–191, 49 Fed. Reg. 46,889 (November 29, hand-in-hand with State and local law en- gun shows are not exempt from Brady back- 1984). forcement agencies and the communities ground checks or other provisions of our 51 The ‘‘secondary market’’ refers to the sale and they serve to rid our neighborhoods of gangs, Federal gun laws. purchase of firearms after FFLs sell them at retail. guns, and drugs—and by doing so to reduce WILLIAM J. CLINTON. EXHIBIT 2.—DIGEST OF SELECTED STATES WITH LAWS REGULATING TRANSFERS OF FIREARMS BETWEEN UNLICENSED PERSONS OR GUN SHOWS (12/21/98)

State Regulation of gun shows? Regulation of all firearms transfers?

Pennsylvania: 18 Pa. Stat. Ann. § 6111; § 6113...... NO...... YES. Nonlicense wishing to transfer firearm to nonlicense must do so through licensee or at county sheriff’s office. The licensee must conduct background check as if he or she were the seller. Exclusions apply for certain fire- arms, family member transfers, law enforcement, or where local authority certifies that transferee’s life is threatened. California: Cal. Penal Code § 12071.1; § 12082...... YES. Must receive state certificate of eligibility to operate YES. All transfers for firearms must be through a licensed dealer who must conduct a background check. gun show.. Illinois: 430 Ill. Comp. Stat. Ann. §§ 65/2(a)(1), 65/3...... NO...... YES. No one may lawfully possess any firearm without possessing a Firearms Owner’s Identification Card (FOIC) issued by the State police. Each transferee of any firearm must possess a valid FOIC. Transferor must keep record of transaction for 10 years. Virginia: Va. Code Ann. §§ 52–8.4:1, 54.1–4200, 54.1– YES. Promoter of firearm show must provide 30 days’ no- NO. 4201.1.. tice, and provide pre- and post-show list of each ven- dor’s name and business address.. District of Columbia: D.C. Code Ann. § 6–2311...... NO...... YES. It is unlawful to possess any firearm that is not registered. Virgin Islands: V.I. Code tit. 23, § 461...... NO...... YES. No transfer of a firearm is lawful without prior approval by Commissioner of Licensing and Consumer Affairs. Florida: ...... NO...... Under Art. VIII, Sec. 5 of Florida Constitution, counties are now free to impose waiting periods and background checks for all firearm sales in places where public has the right of access; ‘‘sale’’ requires consideration. Puerto Rico: P.R. Laws Ann., tit. 25, §§ 429, 438, 439...... NO...... YES. All firearms must be registered and transfers must be through a licensed dealer. North Carolina: N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14–402...... NO...... NO. However, no transfer of a pistol is lawful without the transferee first obtaining a license from the county sher- iff. Hawaii: Haw. Rev. Stat. §§ 134–2, 134–3, 134–4...... NO...... YES. No person may acquire ownership of a firearm until the person first obtains a permit from the local police chief. A separate permit is required for each handgun or pistol; a shotgun or rifle allows multiple acquisitions up to one year. Iowa: Iowa Code Ann. § 724.16...... NO...... NO. However, it is unlawful to transfer a pistol or revolver without an annual permit to acquire pistols and revolv- ers. Minnesota: Minn. Stat. Ann. §§ 624.7131, 624.7132...... NO...... NO. However, it is unlawful to transfer a pistol or semiautomatic assault weapon without executing a transfer re- port, signed by transferor and transferee and presented to the local police chief of the transferee, who shall conduct a background check. H8612 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE September 23, 1999 EXHIBIT 2.—DIGEST OF SELECTED STATES WITH LAWS REGULATING TRANSFERS OF FIREARMS BETWEEN UNLICENSED PERSONS OR GUN SHOWS (12/21/98)—Continued

State Regulation of gun shows? Regulation of all firearms transfers?

Maryland: 27 Md. Code Ann. §§ 442, 443A(a)...... YES. Nonlicensed persons selling a handgun or assault NO. weapon at a gun show must obtain a transfer permit; a background check is conducted on the applicant. An individual is limited to five permits per year.. Missouri: Mo. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 571.080...... NO...... YES. It is unlawful to buy, sell, exchange, loan, or borrow a firearm without first receiving a valid permit author- izing the acquisition of the firearm. South Dakota: S.D. Codified Laws §§ 23–7–9, 7–10...... NO...... NO. However, it is unlawful to transfer a pistol to a person who has purchased a pistol until after 48 hours of the sale. Exceptions apply for holders of concealed pistol permit. New York: NY Penal Law § 400.00(16) and §§ 265.11–13. .. NO...... YES. As a general matter, no person may possess, receive, or sell a firearm without first obtaining a permit or li- cense from the State. Thus, all lawful firearms transfers in New York, including those at gun shows, would be between licensees or permittees. New Jersey: N.J. Stat. Ann. § 2C: 39–3; 58–3...... NO...... YES. It is unlawful to sell a firearm unless licensed or registered to do so. No unlicensed person may acquire a firearm without a purchase permit or firearms purchaser identification card. New Hampshire: N.H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 159...... NO...... NO. However, it is unlawful for a nonlicensee not engaged in the business to transfer a pistol to a person who is not personally known to the transferor. Connecticut: Connecticut General Statute §§ 29–28 through NO...... YES. Anyone who sells 10 or more handguns in a calendar year must have a FFL or a State permit. Nonlicensees 29–37.. wishing to transfer a firearm must receive from the prospective purchaser an application which is then sub- mitted to local and State authorities. Exceptions are for licensed hunters purchasing long guns and members of the Armed Forces. Massachusetts: Mass. Gen. Laws Ann. Ch. 140 § 129C; NO...... NO. However, State law provides that any person may transfer up to four firearms to any nonlicensed person per § 128A; § 128B.. calendar year without obtaining a State license, provided seller forwards name of seller, purchaser, and infor- mation about the firearm to State authorities. Rhode Island: R.I. Gen. Laws §§ 11–47–35, 36, 40...... NO...... YES. No person may sell a firearm without purchaser completing application which is submitted to State police for background check. Seller obligated to maintain register recording information about the transaction, such as date, name, age and residence of purchaser. Michigan: Mich. Comp. Laws §§ 750.223; 750.422...... NO...... NO. However, no transfer of a pistol is lawful without the transferee first obtaining a handgun purchase permit from the local CLEO. Nevada: Nev. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 202.254...... NO...... NO. However, a private person wishing to transfer a firearm may request a State background check on the pro- spective transferee.

APPENDIX ures on new, used, and stolen firearms reflect TABLE 1.—INITIATION OF INVESTIGATION METHODOLOGY the number of investigations in which the The following analyses are based on a sur- traffickers were known to deal in these kinds N=314 of weapons. The figures on stolen firearms Reason vey of ATF special agents reporting informa- Number Percent tion about recent investigations associated are subject to the usual problems associated with gun shows. The investigations reflect with determining whether a firearm has been Confidential informant ...... 74 23.6 what ATF has encountered and investigated; stolen. Many stolen firearms are not re- Referred from another Federal, State, or local ported to the police. Such limitations apply investigation ...... 60 19.1 they do not necessarily reflect typical crimi- ATF investigation at gun show (e.g., gun show nal diversions of firearms at gun shows or to much of the data collected in this re- task force) ...... 44 14.0 the typical acquisition of firearms by crimi- search. Trace analysis after firearms recovery ...... 37 11.8 Review of multiple sales forms ...... 34 10.8 nals through gun shows. Furthermore, they Finally, except where noted, the unit of Licensed dealers at gun shows reported sus- do not provide information about the signifi- analysis in the review of investigations is picious activity ...... 26 8.3 cance of diversion associated with gun shows the investigation itself. The data show, for Tip or anonymous information ...... 18 5.7 with respect to other sources of diversion. example, the proportion of investigations Field interrogation after firearm recovery ...... 4 1.3 Gun show promoter reported suspicious activ- Nevertheless, they suggest that the criminal that were known by agents to involve new, ity ...... 2 0.6 diversion of firearms at and through gun used, and stolen firearms, but these figures Analysis of out-of-business records ...... 1 0.3 shows is an important crime and public safe- do not represent a proportion or count of the Unknown ...... 14 4.4 ty problem. number of new, used, or stolen firearms The analyses use data from investigations being trafficked at gun shows. The data show TABLE 2.—INVESTIGATIONS SUBMITTED BY FIELD referred for prosecution and adjudicated, and what proportion of investigations were DIVISIONS investigations that have not yet been re- known to involve a firearm subsequently ferred for prosecution. Thus, not all viola- used in a homicide, but not how many homi- N=314 tions described will necessarily be charged as cides were committed by firearms trafficked crimes or result in convictions. As a con- through gun shows. It was not possible to Field division Number of sequence, the exact number of offenders in investiga- Percent gather more specific information within the tions the investigation, the numbers and types of short timeframe of the study. firearms involved, and the types of crimes It was, for the most part, not possible to Dallas ...... 43 13.7 associated with recovered firearms may not review and verify all of the information pro- Houston ...... 42 13.1 have been fully known to the case agents at Detroit ...... 41 13.1 vided in the survey responses. However, ATF Philadelphia ...... 34 10.8 the time of the request, and some informa- Headquarters personnel took a random sam- Miami/Tampa ...... 20 6.3 tion may be underreported. For example, it ple of 15 cases each from the 31 investiga- Kansas City ...... 19 6.1 is likely that the number of firearms in- tions reported to have involved 101–250 fire- Nashville ...... 16 5.1 volved in the investigations could increase, Columbus ...... 1.5 4.8 arms and from the 30 investigations reported Seattle ...... 11 3.5 as could the number and types of violations, to have involved 251 or more firearms, and St. Paul ...... 10 3.2 as more information is uncovered by the reviewed with ATF field personnel the infor- Louisville ...... 9 2.9 New Orleans ...... 9 2.9 agents working the investigations. mation leading to those reports. A break- Information generated as part of a crimi- Phoenix ...... 8 2.5 down of the results of this review showing Washington, DC ...... 8 2.5 nal investigation also does not necessarily the basis for reporting the firearms volume Charlotte ...... 8 2.5 capture data on the dimensions ideally suit- is provided below. Based on this review, ATF Los Angeles ...... 6 1.9 Atlanta ...... 6 1.9 ed to a more basic inquiry about trafficking concludes that the numbers of firearms re- and trafficking patterns. For example, inves- Chicago ...... 5 1.6 ported in connection with the investigations San Francisco ...... 1 0.3 tigative information necessary to build a have a reasonable basis. Baltimore ...... 1 0.3 strong case worth of prosecution may pro- Boston ...... 1 0.3 New York ...... 1 0.3 vide very detailed descriptions of firearms N = 321 used as evidence in the case but may not Procedure Number Percent even estimate, much less describe in detail, TABLE 3.—MAIN SUBJECT OF INVESTIGATION all the firearms involved in the trafficking Firearms seized/purchased/recovered and reconstruc- enterprise. tion of dealer records ...... 10 31.2 N=314 Information was not provided with enough Reconstruction of dealer records ...... 9 28.1 consistency and specificity to determine the Firearms seized/purchased/recovered ...... 6 18.8 Subject Number of Reconstruction of dealer records and confidential in- investiga- Percent number of handguns, rifles, and shotguns formation ...... 3 9.4 tions trafficked in a particular investigation. Firearms seized and admission by defendant(s) ...... 2 6.2 Likewise, special agents may not have infor- ATF NTC compilation and confidential information ..... 1 3.1 Unlicensed dealer ...... 170 54.1 Unknown ...... 1 3.1 Unlicensed dealer (never FFL) ...... 118 37.6 mation on trafficked firearms subsequently Former FFL ...... 37 11.8 used in crime. Such information is not al- 1 This breakdown includes, in addition to the basis for the numbers of firearms reported in the randomly selected cases, the basis for the numbers Current FFL and former FFL ...... 8 2.5 ways available. Comprehensive tracing of of firearms reported in the two investigations involving the largest volumes Unlicensed dealer and former FFL ...... 2 0.6 crime guns does not exist nationwide and, of firearms, 10,000 and 7,000 firearms respectively. The case involving Current FFL and Unlicensed dealer ...... 4 1.3 Current FFL/Former FFL /unlicensed ...... 1 0.3 until the very recent Youth Crime Gun 7,000 firearms used a combination of an audit of firearms seized and the reconstruction of dealer records, while the case involving 10,000 firearms Current FFL ...... 73 23.2 Interdiction Initiative, most major cities did used a combination of NTC records and information from confidential in- Felon purchasing firearms at gun show ...... 33 10.5 not trace all recovered crime guns. The fig- formants. Straw purchasers at gun show ...... 20 6.4 September 23, 1999 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H8613 TABLE 3.—MAIN SUBJECT OF INVESTIGATION—Continued TABLE 7.—VIOLATIONS IN THE MAIN INVESTIGATIONS— We have a strong economy because Continued my Administration and the Congress N=314 have followed the proper economic Subject Number of Number of course over the past 6 years. We have investiga- Percent Violation investiga- Percent tions tions focused on reducing deficits, paying Straw purchasing ...... 36 11.5 down debt held by the public, bringing Unknown gun show source ...... 18 5.7 False entries/fraudulent statements in li- down interest rates, investing in our Note.—Overall, 46.2 percent of the investigations involved a felon associ- censee records ...... 27 8.6 people, and opening markets. There is ated with selling or purchasing firearms. This percentage was derived from Illegal transfer of firearms to resident of an- aggregate investigations in which trafficked firearms were recovered from other State by nonlicensee ...... 27 8.6 $1.7 trillion less debt held by the public felons; unlicensed dealers’ criminal histories included felony convictions; fel- Illegal transfer of firearms to resident of an- today than was forecast in 1993. This ons had purchased firearms at guns shows, and a licensed dealer had a other State by licensee ...... 21 6.7 convicted felon as an associate. When only a licensed dealer was the main Receipt and sale of stolen firearms ...... 15 5.8 has contributed to lower interest rates, subject of the investigation, a convicted felon was involved in 6.8 percent (5 Obliterating firearms serial numbers ...... 14 4.5 record business investment, greater of 73) of the investigations as an associate in the trafficking of firearms. Drug trafficking ...... 11 3.5 When the investigation involved an unlicensed dealer or a former FFL, 25.3 Trafficking of firearms by licensee (unspec- productivity growth, low inflation, low percent (43 of 170) of the investigations revealed that he/she had at least ified violation) ...... 9 2.9 unemployment, and broad-based one prior felony conviction. Transfer of firearm in violation of 5-day wait- ing period ...... 7 2.2 growth in real wages—and the first Illegal out of state sales by nonlicensee ...... 7 2.2 back-to-back budget surpluses in al- TABLE 4.—FIREARMS ASSOCIATED WITH GUN SHOW IN- Licensee doing business away from business VESTIGATIONS KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN premises ...... 5 1.6 most half a century. Illegal manufacture and transfer of assault This legislation would reverse the fis- SUBSEQUENT CRIMES weapon ...... 3 1.0 Sales by a prohibited person ...... 2 0.6 cal discipline that has helped make the [34.4 percent of the investigations (108 of 314) had at least one firearm Forgery or check fraud to obtain firearms ...... 2 0.6 recovered in crime] American economy the strongest it has Note.—Since an investigation may involve multiple violations, an inves- been in generations. By using projected N=108 tigation can be included in more than one category. surpluses to provide a risky tax cut, Crime 1 H.R. 2488 could lead to higher interest Number Percent TABLE 8.—WEAPONS ASSOCIATED WITH NFA VIOLATIONS rates, thereby undercutting any bene- Drug offense ...... 48 44.4 IN GUN SHOW INVESTIGATIONS Felon in possession ...... 33 30.6 fits for most Americans by increasing Crime of violence ...... 47 43.5 home mortgage payments, car loan Homicide ...... 26 24.1 N=62 NFA violation Assault ...... 30 27.8 1 payments, and credit card rates. We Robbery ...... 20 18.5 Number Percent Property crime (burglary, B&E) ...... 16 14.8 must put first things first, pay down Criminal possession (not felon in poss.) ...... 15 13.9 Macine guns ...... 33 53.2 publicly held debt, and address the Juvenile possession ...... 13 12.0 Converted guns ...... 19 30.6 Silencers ...... 9 14.5 long-term solvency of Medicare and So- 1 Number of investigations with at least one category. Explosives (e.g., grenades) ...... 8 12.9 cial Security. My Mid-Session Review Grenade launchers ...... 7 11.3 Note.—Since firearms recovered in an investigation may be used in many of the Budget presented a framework in different types of crime, an investigation can be included in more than one Conversion kits/parts ...... 7 11.3 category. Other (short barrel) ...... 5 8.1 which we could accomplish all of these 1 Number of NFA investigations with at least one category. things and also provide an affordable TABLE 5.—NUMBER OF FIREARMS RECORDED IN GUN Note.—Since investigations may involve different types of NFA violations, tax cut. SHOW INVESTIGATIONS an investigation can be included in more than one category. However, ‘‘con- verted guns’’ have not been included in the ‘‘machinegun’’ count. The magnitude of the tax cuts in H.R. 2488 and the associated debt serv- N=314 The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. ice costs would be virtually as great as Number of firearms Number of HANSEN). The time of the gentlewoman all of the on-budget surpluses the Con- investiga- Percent from New York (Mrs. MCCARTHY) has tions gressional Budget Office projects for expired. the next 10 years. This would leave vir- Less than 5 ...... 70 22.3 Without objection, the previous ques- tually none of the projected on-budget 5 to 10 ...... 37 11.8 tion is ordered on the motion to in- 11 to 20 ...... 22 7.0 surplus available for addressing the 21 to 50 ...... 47 15.0 struct. long-term solvency of Medicare, which 51 to 100 ...... 47 15.0 There was no objection. 101 to 250 ...... 31 9.9 is currently projected by its Trustees 251 or greater ...... 30 9.6 The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Unknown ...... 30 9.6 question is on the motion to instruct to be insolvent by 2015, or of Social Se- curity, which then will be in a negative Note.—For further details about this information, see the Methodology offered by the gentlewoman from New cash-flow position, or for critical fund- section of this report. York (Mrs. MCCARTHY). The question was taken; and the ing for priorities like national secu- TABLE 6.—NEW, USED AND STOLEN GUNS KNOWN TO BE Speaker pro tempore announced that rity, education, health care, law en- INVOLVED IN GUN SHOW INVESTIGATIONS the noes appeared to have it. forcement, science and technology, the environment, and veterans’ programs. Number of Ms. LOFGREN. Mr. Speaker, on that Type of firearm investiga- Percent I demand the yeas and nays. The bill would cause the Nation to tions The yeas and nays were ordered. forgo the unique opportunity to elimi- Used firearms ...... 167 53.2 The SPEAKER pro tempore. Pursu- nate completely the burden of the debt New firearms ...... 156 49.7 held by the public by 2015 as proposed Stolen firearms ...... 35 11.1 ant to clause 8 of rule XX, further pro- unknown ...... 75 23.9 ceedings on this question will be post- by my Administration’s Mid-Session MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE CATEGORIES poned. Review. The elimination of this debt New firearms and used firearms ...... 80 25.5 f would have a beneficial effect on inter- Used firearms only ...... 62 19.7 est rates, investment, and the growth New firearms only ...... 61 19.4 TAXPAYER REFUND AND RELIEF Used firearms and stolen firearms ...... 13 4.1 of the economy. Moreover, paying New firearms, used firearms, and stolen fire- ACT OF 1999—VETO MESSAGE down debt is tantamount to cutting arms ...... 12 3.8 FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE Stolen firearms only ...... 7 2.2 taxes. Each one-percentage point de- New firearms and stolen firearms ...... 3 0.9 UNITED STATES cline in interest rates would mean a unknown ...... 75 23.9 The SPEAKER pro tempore laid be- cut of $200 billion to $250 billion in Note.—Since more than one type of firearm can be recovered in an in- fore the House the following veto mes- vestigation, an investigation can be included in more than one category. mortgage costs borne by American con- sage from the President of the United sumers over the next 10 years. Also, if TABLE 7.—VIOLATIONS IN THE MAIN INVESTIGATIONS States; which was read and, without we do not erase the debt held by the objection, referred to the Committee public, our children and grandchildren Number of on Ways and Means: Violation investiga- Percent will have to pay higher taxes to offset tions To the House of Representatives: the higher Federal interest costs on I am returning herewith without my this debt. Engaging in the business of dealing without license ...... 169 53.8 approval H.R. 2488, the ‘‘Taxpayer Re- Budget projections are inherently un- Possession and receipt of firearm by con- fund and Relief Act of 1999,’’ because it certain. For example, the Congres- victed felon ...... 76 24.2 Illegal sales and/or possession of NFA weap- ignores the principles that have led us sional Budget Office found that, over ons ...... 62 19.7 to the sound economy we enjoy today the last 11 years, estimates of annual Licensee failure to keep required records ...... 60 19.1 Providing false information to receive firearms 54 17.2 and emphasizes tax reduction for those deficits or surpluses 5 years into the fu- Transfer of firearm to prohibited person ...... 46 14.6 who need it the least. ture erred by an average of 13 percent