Thursday Volume 692 15 April 2021 No. 201
HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)
Thursday 15 April 2021 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2021 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 461 15 APRIL 2021 462
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) [V]: I am afraid House of Commons the 5,000 workers at Liberty Steel will not have been reassured by the Minister’s answer. The collapse of Greensill Capital has created serious problems at Liberty Thursday 15 April 2021 Steel and is one of many reasons why the entire British steel industry now urgently needs leadership, stability The House met at half-past Nine o’clock and support from the Government. Can we get some clarity? Retaining the import tariffs is a political decision. Will the Minister play his part today by guaranteeing PRAYERS that the Government will retain the vital safeguard tariffs that Britain currently has in place against cheap steel imports for the full financial year ahead—no ifs, [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] no buts and no maybes? Virtual participation in proceedings commenced (Orders, 4 June and 30 December 2020). Mr Jayawardena: I do love the authenticity with [NB [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] which the hon. Gentleman asked his question; of course, if it were a political decision, he would be calling for it to be independent. It is an independent decision. The Trade Remedies Authority has teeth and will act accordingly. Oral Answers to Questions Just like this Government, our Trade Remedies Authority is going to defend the British national industry, back British jobs and support people throughout our United Kingdom. INTERNATIONAL TRADE UK Exports to the US: Tariffs
The Secretary of State was asked— Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): Steel Import Tariffs What recent discussions she has had with her US counterpart on not re-imposing tariffs on UK exports Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP): to the US. [914100] What recent assessment her Department has made of the effect of steel import tariffs on the UK steel industry. The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth [914099] Truss): I am delighted that the United States responded to our de-escalation of retaliatory tariffs in January and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for has removed the 25% tariff on Scotch whisky and other International Trade (Mr Ranil Jayawardena): First, may products. This is fantastic news for the 50,000 people I associate myself with the tributes on Monday led by whose jobs rely on the industry. I am working with you, Mr Speaker, and the Prime Minister on the death Ambassador Tai to get a long-term resolution to the of His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, and the Airbus-Boeing dispute. Humble Address of the House of Commons to Her Majesty? Mr Carmichael: The Scotch whisky industry is of We are committed to defending British industry and economic importance to a large number of the most jobs and will not hesitate to take firm action where economically fragile communities in the highlands and necessary, which is why we have safeguard measures in islands, so I genuinely wish the Secretary of State very place. We know there are concerns that Chinese steel is well in her endeavours to get the removal of tariffs receiving state subsidies that distort trade, so, working made permanent. Is the situation that the Prime Minister with our allies, we will challenge China and other has created in Northern Ireland helping or hindering countries to play by the rules. the engagement with the Biden Administration?
Marion Fellows [V]: Motherwell in my constituency Elizabeth Truss: We are extremely committed to the was once the heart of steel production in Scotland and Good Friday agreement and have had frequent discussions the rest of the UK, but consecutive UK Governments with the Biden Administration. I am having very positive have overseen the decline of steel jobs in Scotland from discussions with my counterpart Katherine Tai about thousands to just over 100. Will the UK Government resolving the Airbus-Boeing dispute—which has been provide certainty for steelworkers today,support domestic going on for 16 years—to the benefit of the Scotch production, protect those remaining jobs and retain the whisky industry, other industries throughout the UK tariffs on steel imports? and industries such as aerospace, in which we need Airbus to be able to compete. Mr Jayawardena: When the Trade Remedies Authority is set up, it will conclude its investigation, which it Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) would be wrong to pre-empt. We are of course working [V]: Madainn mhath, Mr Speaker. for every corner of our United Kingdom, backing The digital-service-tax threats from the USA show British businesses and supporting Scottish jobs as much that the Biden Administration value their special as we are supporting those in England, Wales and relationship with big tech more than the one with the Northern Ireland—at a time when the Scottish National UK. The threat to the tax sovereignty of the UK and a party wants to cut itself off from its largest market: the number of other countries indicates that there is not British internal market. really a relationship of equals. Is not the prospect of a 463 Oral Answers 15 APRIL 2021 Oral Answers 464 trade deal with the USA pretty dead? In any case, the Mr Jayawardena: Mr Speaker, there are only so many 0.2% of GDP that such a deal was going to recover was times that I can say the same thing in a different way, only a fraction of the damage done by Brexit. Has the but we have transitioned 19 of the EU’s measures and Secretary of State accepted that fact yet? we have adopted systems in Britain for trade remedies based on international best practice to ensure that there Elizabeth Truss: We are urging the United States to is independence in this area. I say to the hon. Lady, as I desist from any more tit-for-tat tariffs disputes, including have said already to her Scottish nationalist colleague, in respect of a digital services tax. We think that the that the biggest market for Scotland is of course the best way to resolve the issue is through the process that British internal market, from which she is determined the Chancellor is leading at the OECD. We are in to tear Scotland. further discussions with the United States not just to Unfair Trading Practices end the Airbus tariff dispute but to work with the United States at the G7 to challenge unfair practices in Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con): What steps the global trading system by countries such as China. she is taking to tackle the use of (a) trade-distorting subsidies and (b) other unfair trading practices. [914102] UK Steel Producers: Level Trading Field The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab): What steps she is Truss): It is completely wrong that other countries are taking with Cabinet colleagues to help ensure a level applying unfair practices to undermine fantastic British trading field for UK steel producers while the EU and products. I am working with the new director of the US maintain import controls on steel goods. [914101] World Trade Organisation, Dr Ngozi, to ensure that other countries play by the global rules of free trade. Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) Duncan Baker [V]: The wool trade started in Norfolk (Ind): What steps her Department is taking to help in medieval times, many, many years ago, and we have ensure a level trading field for UK steel producers while always been an outward-looking area to the world, but the EU and US maintain import controls on steel for trade to be free, it must also be fair. Can my right goods. [914146] hon. Friend tell me what steps she is taking to protect vital industries to ensure that they are not undercut by The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for those unscrupulous countries that engage in unfair trading International Trade (Mr Ranil Jayawardena): The practices? Government back the British steel industry, as we have heard already this morning, and the unjustified US Elizabeth Truss: We are establishing the new Trade tariffs on steel, aluminium and derivatives imports from Remedies Authority—which, of course, the Opposition Britain are completely unfair and wholly unnecessary. voted against—in the Trade Bill, which will ensure that Our rebalancing measures in response to the US section all countries follow the WTO rules. It will look at the 232 on additional tariffs show that we will defend the evidence and be unafraid to recommend countervailing British national interest and the rules-based system. duties on exports when other countries do not play by the rules, so Chinese products, such as steel and ceramics, Stephen Kinnock [V]: Our steelworkers make the best that receive unfair state subsidies that will distort trade steel that money can buy but, thanks to the indifference and damage British business will be tackled. of successive Conservative Governments since 2010, they are constantly being made to compete with one Jobs in Yorkshire hand tied behind their back. They are already dealing Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): What recent with the highest industrial energy prices in Europe and estimate she has made of the number of jobs in Yorkshire a Government procurement policy that fails the patriotism that are delivered by international trade. [914104] test, and now they face the possibility that, in June, steel safeguards that guard against import surges will be The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for removed. Does the Minister agree that, if the Government International Trade (Graham Stuart): New research were to remove those safeguards, it would add insult to published alongside the Board of Trade paper “Global injury and again undermine the ability of our steel Britain, local jobs” estimates that 418,000 jobs were industry to compete on a level playing field? supported by exports in 2016 in Yorkshire and Humber. [Interruption.] Of course, the shadow Secretary of State Mr Jayawardena: As the hon. Member knows, the laughs at the mention of jobs. It is notable how, in British steel industry has benefited from investment of session after session, one issue that the she does not more than £500 million in recent years to help with the focus on is jobs and the livelihoods on which people costs of energy, and we have announced a £250 million depend. Of those jobs—I thank her for stopping her fund to support the decarbonisation of the industry. So chuntering from a sedentary position. Of those jobs— this Government are dedicated to supporting the future [Interruption.] Oh, she has not stopped. Of those jobs, of the steel industry and we will continue that work. 234,000 were supported directly by exporting businesses, while a further 184,000 form part of the UK supply Margaret Ferrier [V]: Removing these measures would chain of exporting businesses. lead to the UK being one of the only steel markets without any protective measures for its steel industries. Jason McCartney [V]: I recently hosted an online Does the Minister not agree that, while global overcapacity Department for International Trade roundtable with stands at over 500 million tonnes, it would be unwise to local businesses, giving advice and support on exporting. become a rare exposed market for steel when larger Will the Minister please thank his team for helping to markets are still protected? host that session? Will he make sure that the Department 465 Oral Answers 15 APRIL 2021 Oral Answers 466 continues to invest in regional exporting advisers to Gareth Thomas: I think what the Secretary of State support businesses across Colne Valley and Yorkshire meant to say was that there is room for improvement, so that we can continue to take full advantage of the and that is certainly true. The stark reality is that Wales new, exciting opportunities that international trade is is getting a rawdeal from the Trade Department. According bringing? to her own figures, the Department delivered 638 new inward investment projects for London but just 62 for Graham Stuart: I thank my hon. Friend: is it not Wales—a lower number of new investment projects fantastic and uplifting to have someone who is genuinely than in any region in England, and for three years in a dedicated to supporting and promoting the jobs upon row. How can she justify those figures? which so many families depend? I am delighted that he has joined DIT’s parliamentary export programme, as Elizabeth Truss: We are establishing a trade and have colleagues from right across this House, supporting investment hub in Cardiff this year that will employ up and encouraging businesses to grow internationally, to 100 people precisely to bring more investment into including through unlocking the benefits of the free Wales,more jobs into Wales,and more export opportunities trade agreements. As he rightly highlights, DIT has into Wales. 28 international trade advisers dedicated to the Yorkshire region who help small and medium-sized enterprises to Arms Exports: International Humanitarian Law fulfil their exporting potential and connect them to international business opportunities. Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab): What steps Trade and Investment in Wales she is taking with Cabinet colleagues to ensure that arms exported from the UK are not deployed in contravention of international humanitarian law. Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con): What recent assessment she has made of the economic effect of international [914107] trade on Wales. [914105] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth International Trade (Mr Ranil Jayawardena): All arms Truss): Last month, I announced our new trade and exports require an export licence. I can assure the investment hub in Wales, which will support almost House that we take our export control responsibilities 200,000 exporters and channel investment into Wales. It very seriously. We rigorously assess every application on will play a crucial role in the export-led, jobs-led recovery a case-by-case basis against the consolidated EU and for Wales. national arms export licensing criteria, taking advice from the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Robin Millar [V]: The UK Government’s plan for a Office and the Ministry of Defence. We will not issue an trade and investment hub in Wales is welcome support export licence where to do so would be inconsistent for business here in Wales. It will support exporters and with the consolidated criteria, including where there is a help to restore inward investment in Wales to the levels clear risk that the items might be used for a serious we enjoyed in the past. What benefits has the Secretary violation of international humanitarian law. of State identified that the hub will bring to exporters here in Aberconwy and across north Wales? Kim Johnson [V]: The Yemeni community in Liverpool would like to know how the Minister can possibly Elizabeth Truss: The trade and investment hub will justify the decision of his Department to increase its provide support to business across Wales. There are sales of bombs and missiles for use in Yemen to new already 2,000 people in Aberconwy working in export- record highs, while his friends at the Foreign Office are intensive industries. The trade hub will provide support, simultaneously cutting the amount of humanitarian aid including for Welsh lamb exports, which have resumed going to starving Yemeni children. Does he accept that after more than 20 years to countries such as Japan. this is not just wrong, but downright immoral?
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): The Mr Jayawardena: Not only are Her Majesty’s Government’s “Global Britain, local jobs” analysis does Government one of the biggest donors of aid around not take into account Brexit or covid, it ignores Welsh the world, including to Yemen, but as was set out in the farming and Welsh steel production, and it appears to Secretary of State’s written statement, we have devised think that there are still 1,500 people employed in car a clear and revised methodology to make sure we will production in Bridgend, which sadly there are not. only license such products if they are consistent with Does the Secretary of State therefore think that this the consolidated criteria. outdated, incomplete analysis is a reliable foundation on which to base her trade policy for Wales? Trade Policies: Farmers
Elizabeth Truss: The analysis that we produced as Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con): What recent part of “Global Britain, local jobs” is the first time that assessment she has made of the potential effect of her we have produced data at a constituency level for export Department’s trade policies on UK farmers. [914108] industries, and it always takes time for statistics to be processed. The new Trade Bill has enabled us to get The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth access to more up-to-date data that we will of course Truss): We want to sell more British food around the continue to update our strategy with. I was hoping that world and help farmers make the most of our trade the hon. Gentleman would welcome the new trade hub deals with 66 nations, plus the EU. We launched the that we are establishing in Cardiff, which will bring Open Doors campaign, which will help our farmers to more investment to Wales—so let us hear from him. export to the world’s fastest growing markets. 467 Oral Answers 15 APRIL 2021 Oral Answers 468
Craig Williams: It is well documented that the food serious matters such as forced labour. The Secretary of produced by our farmers is world class and demand State also discussed the issue of forced labour with around the world is increasing. Can my right hon. Ambassador Tai and her G7 counterparts during the Friend build on the success of her FTAs, especially with G7 Trade Ministers meeting that she chaired on 31 March. Japan, in opening up markets for Welsh lamb and beef, including the United States? There was success with the Yasmin Qureshi [V]: The Magnitsky-style sanctions United States on beef, and hopefully there will be on against China are only the first step. While we welcome lamb. Can she update us in particular on the United them, trade relations cannot be left out. What steps are States and Japan? the Government taking to ensure that UK consumers are not buying goods made with forced labour, and will Elizabeth Truss: Welsh farmers export £144 million the UK follow the US in banning imports of cotton of lamb and beef around the world, and the recent from China’s Xinjiang region? opening of the US market to beef and the Japanese market to lamb will boost the figures further. Last Mr Jayawardena: We are adopting a targeted approach month, I visited Kepak, which is already shipping beef to this issue, to make sure that we address the violations to the US from farms across Wales, including in my of rights and responsibilities.Wehave designated individuals hon. Friend’s constituency. and entities that have been involved in such violations. This is a smart tool, carefully targeted to achieve its Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) goals, while minimising potentially negative wider impacts. (Lab): I am sure that the Secretary of State will want to It is not designed with a view to imposing sanctions on join me in thanking Tim Smith and all the members of sectors within countries, for example. the Trade and Agriculture Commission for their final report published last month. Can I start by asking her UK and Sweden: Trade and Business Relationships when the Government intend to publish the core set of standards that the commission has called for, setting Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) out the UK’s minimum requirements for tariff reductions (Con): What steps her Department is taking to improve when it comes to food safety, the environment and trade and business relationships between the UK and animal welfare? Sweden. [914111]
Elizabeth Truss: I completely agree with the right The Minister for Trade Policy (Greg Hands): Sweden hon. Lady that Tim Smith and the team produced a is a close ally of the UK on trade policy and a close fantastic report laying out the future for British agricultural partner in our day-to-day trading relationship. I was the trade, and I am also delighted that she welcomes the first UK Minister to visit Sweden after the EU referendum, recommendations to promote the liberalisation of trade and through our excellent DIT team in Stockholm, we to influence innovation and productivity, and price and work hard to promote trade and investment between choice for consumers. We will be responding to the the UK and Sweden. report in due course. Andrew Bowie: I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer. According to a recent report by the Swedish Emily Thornberry: I thank the Secretary of State for chamber of commerce for the UK, almost 40% of the answer, but it is vital that when this House comes to Swedish businesses are optimistic about business growth examine the upcoming trade agreements with Australia in the UK and 70% continue to see the UK as an and New Zealand, we are able to judge them against important step in international expansion. Does he that core set of standards. Can I ask her to make it clear agree that developing links with this greatest Scandinavian today that there will be no proposed reduction in tariffs country,which shares our values and our growing economy, as a result of those two agreements for any agricultural would be good for the UK, good for jobs and good for products that do not meet Britain’s core standards? developing relations with our partners in the European Union? Elizabeth Truss: Part of the Trade Bill was the establishment of the statutory Trade and Agriculture Greg Hands: I commend my hon. Friend for his work Commission. For every free trade agreement, it will as the chairman of the British-Swedish all-party produce a report on precisely the issues that the right parliamentary group and his mention of the excellent hon. Lady outlines. I am very pleased that our partners Swedish chamber of commerce for the UK, which was in Australia and New Zealand are two countries with on one of my recent webinars. In my recent call with very high standards in animal welfare. Swedish Trade Minister Anna Hallberg, we agreed to co-host a bilateral trade and business forum later this Trade Sanctions on Exports from Xinjiang year. We have excellent trade co-operation with Sweden in sectors such as technology, financial services, defence Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): What and clean energy, so I very much share my hon. Friend’s recent discussions she has had with her US counterpart optimism. on trade sanctions on exports from Xinjiang. [914110] Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans- The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Pacific Partnership International Trade (Mr Ranil Jayawardena): The Secretary of State spoke with the US trade representative, Katherine Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): What recent assessment Tai, on 22 March. They discussed a number of issues, she has made of the implications for her policies of the including how the United Kingdom and the United UK joining the comprehensive and progressive agreement States will collaborate to address shared concerns on for trans-Pacific partnership. [914112] 469 Oral Answers 15 APRIL 2021 Oral Answers 470
The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth Alyn Smith [V]: I appreciate that those on the Truss): Joining the CPTPP is a massive opportunity for Government Benches prefer breathless rhetoric to harsh UK businesses, in particular those in areas such as reality, but the statistics to which the Minister refers are financial services and digital, where the rules are world- really quite clear for rural Scotland. Its meat exports leading. It will also cut tariffs for businesses in vital remain down 52%, fish and shellfish are down 54%, dairy industries such as cars and whisky and help to drive our and eggs down 39%, beverages down 34%, cereals down exports-led, jobs-led recovery from covid. 40%, and fruit and veg down 54%. Would the Minister like to apologise to the tens of thousands of people Clive Efford [V]: The very first of the 238 questions across rural Scotland who are in daily dread and fear of put to the Secretary of State in a letter from my right what their economic future holds? hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) on accession to the CPTPP asked Greg Hands: I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up her whether the UK will have the right to negotiate question, and I wonder if, to coin a phrase, he has exemptions from those provisions of the agreement to perhaps taken his eye off the ball, because actually which we do not wish to accede and amendments to there was a bounce back in trade in February. I will give those provisions to which we wish to make improvements, him an independent view from the Office for National or whether it is her intention to join the CPTPP accepting Statistics, which on the trade data says: all its current provisions in full. What is the Secretary of “Exports of food and live animals to the EU increased…in State’s answer? February 2021, after being significantly impacted in January… Exports of fish and shellfish to the EU also saw an uptick in Elizabeth Truss: The CPTPP is a very high-standards February 2021 as exporters adjust to new regulations following the end of the transition period. The disruptions to food exports agreement, and the rules will have huge benefits for the in January 2021 appear to have largely been overcome and may UK. The reality is that UK products such as beef and have only had short-term impacts on trade.” lamb have been locked out of overseas markets for That is from the Office for National Statistics, which he unfair reasons, so it is in our interests to sign up to a may seek to consult. high-standards, good-rules agreement. Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) Strathspey) (SNP): I am delighted the Minister has (Lab): As my hon. Friend the Member for Eltham quoted the ONS, because figures out this week show (Clive Efford) said, there are at least 238 questions that economic output remaining nearly 8% below the pre- the Secretary of State has to address on the subject of pandemic peak and exports to Germany, Italy and this agreement, and I look forward to receiving her Ireland down by as much as 50% to 75%. These are not answers soon, but today I want to ask her one simple teething problems; they are the bite of long Brexit. one: can she guarantee that this Parliament will have as Does the Minister agree with Matt Griffith from the much time to scrutinise the proposed terms of accession British Chambers of Commerce that his members are to CPTPP before a vote on whether or not to approve experiencing a them as the Australia, Canada and New Zealand Parliaments had before their respective votes? “permanent deterioration in their competitive position due to higher admin, paperwork and shipping costs”? Elizabeth Truss: I thank the right hon. Lady for her Greg Hands: It is good to have an argument about question—she clearly comes from a profession where statistics, but actually the UK exports to the EU in she was paid by the number of questions she asked. I February of £11.6 billion were only just below the will be delighted to answer all those questions and more monthly average for the whole of 2020, which was when we publish the public bundle, which will include obviously very impacted by the pandemic, of £12 billion. the scoping assessment and our negotiation objectives. I would caution against using statistics in this way—we We will publish that at the time of launching our need to see the bigger picture—but I refer the hon. negotiations, and we will also have full parliamentary Member back to what the ONS said. On the help we are scrutiny, including by the statutory Trade and Agriculture providing for exporters, we have various Government Commission, in line with parliamentary systems across helplines, the Brexit business taskforce, Brexit SME the world. support and various measures in place specifically to support the agricultural sector and the Scottish seafood UK Exports: Germany, Italy and Ireland sector.
Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP): What recent estimate Drew Hendry: Let us come away from statistics and her Department has made of the value of UK exports back to what is happening. JP Morgan boss Jamie to (a) Germany, (b) Italy and (c) Ireland in 2021. Dimon wrote to staff this month warning them that it [914113] will move all its EU-faced business out of London and into Europe. He says: The Minister for Trade Policy (Greg Hands): The UK “Brexit was accomplished, but many issues still need to be greatly values its trade with each of Germany, Italy and negotiated. And in those negotiations, Europe has had, and will Ireland. All trade data is currently volatile, especially continue to have, the upper hand.” due to the pandemic, but data released earlier this week The financial services sector is a huge employer in showed a monthly upwards bounce in UK goods exports Scotland, and it is also facing this Westminster-inflicted to the EU to £11.6 billion in February from £7.9 billion disaster. Can the Minister now see why people in Scotland in January, including increases to all three countries want to have their choice and their say over their own referred to in the question. future? 471 Oral Answers 15 APRIL 2021 Oral Answers 472
Greg Hands: The hon. Member will know that there rely on global trade, so I am grateful to her Department is of course a financial services memorandum of for the work it has done, alongside Tees Valley Mayor understanding between the UK and the EU, and we are Ben Houchen, to bring more jobs, including in her acutely aware of the importance of the financial services Department, to the Tees valley. Can she outline when sector, not least to my constituency as well. Many, I we might start to see these DIT jobs coming to Teesside, have to say, were surprised when the SNP voted for no and what is her message to the people of the Tees valley deal on 30 December, especially after Nicola Sturgeon ahead of the important elections next month? called it “unthinkable”. However, I have to say that I was not as surprised, because over the years I have seen Elizabeth Truss: My message is that Ben Houchen is the SNP vote against every single UK or EU trade deal, doing a fantastic job, as is my hon. Friend. I am so the idea that it was going to vote in favour of a trade delighted that we are establishing a new trade hub in deal between the two of them was, frankly, highly Darlington, which is only half an hour’s drive from my unlikely. The SNP is anti-business, anti-jobs and against hon. Friend’s constituency. There are over 4,000 jobs in Scotland’s best interests. export-related industries in Redcar, including in the chemicals industry, and we will be doing even more to Trading Relationship with Tunisia support them with the new Darlington trade hub.
Damien Moore (Southport) (Con): What recent Free Trade Agreements: Professional Business Services assessment she has made of the potential merits of strengthening the UK’s trading relationship with Tunisia. James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con): What steps she [R] [914114] is taking to promote professional business services in free trade agreements. [914116] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Mr Ranil Jayawardena): I am grateful Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con): What steps she to my hon. Friend for his work as the Prime Minister’s is taking to promote professional business services in trade envoy to Tunisia and Libya. There is great merit in free trade agreements. [914120] strengthening the trading relationship with Tunisia. Our trade deal entered into force at the beginning of The Minister for Trade Policy (Greg Hands): The UK this year and it provides a platform to deepen trade and is a world leader in professional business services and investment. As he knows, we are already supporting the second biggest exporter of PBS globally, with a businesses such as Unilever, AstraZeneca and Vodafone, trade surplus of £33 billion in 2018. To support this who already operate in Tunisia, and we look forward to important and diverse sector, we are seeking ambitious backing British businesses to do even more. FTA commitments in cross-cutting areas like mobility and digital, as well as tackling specific behind-the-border Damien Moore [V]: Tunisia is a leading exporter of regulatory barriers such as recognition and professional olive oil and wants to export more to the UK, but qualifications. minimum quota requirements based on the last two years are making this difficult. Will my hon. Friend James Sunderland: The Minister will forgive me for look into this so that trade is made easy with Tunisia, being a bit concerned about ongoing red tape in post-Brexit which is eager to build an even stronger trading partnership trade with the European Union. This is affecting businesses with the UK? in Bracknell and beyond. Will he please outline what his Department is doing to support the Cabinet Office in Mr Jayawardena: I am aware of this matter and am resolving this? keen to make sure that businesses can make the most of our transition to trade agreements, so I will look into it. Greg Hands: DIT has very active participation in the I look forward to working with my hon. Friend and my current helplines for businesses facing issues in exporting Tunisian counterpart to open up and promote opportunities to the EU. We participate, of course, in the Brexit for British and Tunisian businesses; more trade means business taskforce, we provide a DIT internationalisation more jobs. fund for those looking to export, and we have 300 international trade advisers across the country and at Jobs in Teesside posts right across the European Union. This is a whole- of-Government effort, and, as I said earlier, the data are Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): What recent estimate starting to show encouraging signs of a recovery in our she has made of the number of jobs in Teesside that are trade. delivered by international trade. [914115] Felicity Buchan: Many of my Kensington constituents The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth work in professional services, whether financial services, Truss): My hon. Friend will be delighted that Teesside law, consulting or accountancy. These industries account will benefit from one of eight new freeports, unlocking for a huge amount of gross value added to our economy. billions of pounds of private sector investment, and it Can my right hon. Friend assure me that the professional will also help British businesses not just in his constituency services sector will be at the forefront of our minds in but across the whole of the UK, including the negotiating future trade deals? 300,000 export-linked jobs in the north-east. Greg Hands: My hon. Friend and neighbour puts it Jacob Young: I thank the Secretary of State for her extremely well. Professional business services are vital answer and for her support for Teesside exporters. From for her constituency, for mine and for the whole country. raw chemicals to plastics and steel, Teesside manufacturers Around 79% of gross value added and 80% of employment 473 Oral Answers 15 APRIL 2021 Oral Answers 474 in this country is in services. As she knows, we secured Mr Speaker: Order. special provisions for legal services in the EU agreement. I meet regularly with bodies such as TheCityUK, the Graham Stuart: Export activity helped support a City of London Corporation, UK Finance, the Royal further 472,000 jobs in the region through the consumption Institute of British Architects, the Institute of Chartered spending of export workers in the wider economy. In Accountants in England and Wales, the Law Society, total, more than 1.1 million jobs—not a laughing matter, the Bar Council and others to ensure that professional Mr Speaker—in the region are linked to exports in business services are right at the heart of the UK’s trade some way. agenda. Mark Logan [V]: Napoleon said that Britain was a Trade Relationship with the Middle East nation of shopkeepers; I want to say that Bolton is a town of exporters. I recently hosted the parliamentary Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): What steps she is export programme in Bolton North East, seeking to taking to strengthen the UK’s trade relationship with help Bolton businesses such as Ajax Equipment and the middle east. [914117] Velden Engineering to take advantage of new trading relations. Across Greater Manchester, foreign direct The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for investment and foreign capital investment are worth International Trade (Mr Ranil Jayawardena): Britain £37 billion to the local economy. What actions is the has strong bilateral trading relationships with our friends Minister taking to put Bolton North East at the forefront in the middle east and a clear ambition to deepen them. of the global stage when it comes to research and As my right hon. Friend knows, we are undertaking a development? joint trade and investment review with the Gulf Co-operation Council, with which total trade stood at Graham Stuart: It is as much my hon. Friend as me over £33 billion in the year to September 2020. The who is putting Bolton North East at the forefront. He Government have also signed trade agreements with has joined colleagues as a member of the parliamentary Jordan and Lebanon, and just last month we entered export programme, and I congratulate him on hosting a into an agreement with the sovereign wealth fund of recent event. He will have seen that we are working hard Abu Dhabi to provide £1 billion of investment into to help Bolton North East companies take advantage of British life sciences. new global opportunities and promoting a strong north-west R&D offer to international investors through the high Robert Halfon [V]: Today is Yom Ha’atzmaut—Israeli potential opportunities programme in frontier sectors independence day—so I hope that my hon. Friend will such as molecular diagnostics, lightweighting and wish Israel happy independence day. The normalisation sustainable packaging. of ties between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain last year was a hugely positive step not Future Trade Deals: Human Rights Clauses only for regional peace but for commerce, tourism and cultural exchanges. Does my hon. Friend agree that the United Kingdom is well placed to support our ally Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): Israel in developing ties in the region, and will he What recent discussions she has had with UK trade explore the opportunities that these new trade relationships partners on inserting clauses on human rights into could bring to our country? future trade deals. [914119]
Mr Jayawardena: Indeed I do join my right hon. Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) (Lab): What Friend in wishing all Israelis a happy independence day. recent discussions she has had with UK trade partners He is right to recognise the strong relationships that we on inserting clauses on human rights into future trade have with the state of Israel. Wewelcome the normalisation deals. [914129] of relations, which creates many opportunities for increased trade, tourism and cultural links as well. Britain is well The Minister for Trade Policy (Greg Hands): The UK placed to support Israel in this endeavour. Total trade has long supported the promotion of our values globally. between us was £4.9 billion in the year to September We are clear that more trade does not have to come at 2020, up from the previous year. We are building a the expense of human rights. Although our approach framework for a new bilateral science partnership. In to agreements will vary between partners, our strong addition, the tech hub based in the British embassy in economic relationships allow us to have open discussions Tel Aviv continues to partner Israeli expertise with on a range of issues, including human rights and British companies, delivering significant benefits to the responsibilities. British economy. Patricia Gibson: In a leaked recording last month, the Jobs in the North-west Foreign Secretary said he wants to do trade deals with countries that violate international standards on human Mark Logan (Bolton North East) (Con): What recent rights, as not doing so would mean missing out on estimate she has made of the number of jobs in the profit. Will the record now be set straight? Does the north-west that are delivered by international trade. Minister recognise the remarks made by the Foreign [914118] Secretary as Government policy and is this the view shared by the Department for International Trade? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Graham Stuart): Around 630,000 jobs Greg Hands: I think the hon. Lady has misquoted the in the north-west were supported by exports in 2016, Foreign Secretary in her account of what he said, but let and export—[Interruption.] me be absolutely clear that we will continue to encourage 475 Oral Answers 15 APRIL 2021 Oral Answers 476 all states to uphold international human rights obligations. Is the Secretary of State concerned that that sounds The UK has long supported the promotion of our very much like we will be rule-takers in the CPTPP, values globally and remains absolutely committed to its rather than rule-makers? international obligations. We are currently negotiating with Australia, New Zealand and the Comprehensive Elizabeth Truss: The UK is a country that follows the and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership. rules. We have very high standards in areas like the They will all be important partners and they are all environment, animal welfare,food standards and intellectual places that the UK will be engaging with when it comes property. It is in our interests to be in an agreement with to questions of maintenance and international support high standards, so that we can ask the same of other for global human rights. countries and get access to their markets. That is the point of signing trade agreements. Mr Sharma [V]: I will make the Minister’s life a bit easier when answering the question. Last month, the [914272] Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con): As we Foreign Secretary explained that there were some countries follow the covid-19 road map and move from response whose behaviour on human rights put them “beyond to recovery, it is vital that we offer our small and the pale” when it comes to trade agreements, but that medium-sized businesses the tools and support that otherwise we should be open to deals with anyone. Can they need to find new markets, grow their exports and the Minister of State save us some time by listing those spur on our economic growth. Will the Minister set out countries whose behaviour the Government regard as what steps the Department is taking to make sure that beyond the pale and those that they regard as acceptable? our SMEs are supported on the world stage?
Greg Hands: Again, I will have to go back and see The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for exactly what the Foreign Secretary said, but I think the International Trade (Graham Stuart): My hon. Friend is hon. Gentleman’s interpretation of what he said is not quite right to highlight the importance of supporting quite right. Let us be absolutely clear. I ask him to have SMEs precisely to get into that international business a look at the roll-over trade agreements we have already space. That is why we are developing a new export done with 66 countries and see if he can identify any strategy. We have the developing Export Academy, diminution of human rights in the agreements we have with a range of toolkits and information to support already done. small businesses. We have the internationalisation fund: £38 million of grants to help businesses to overcome Topical Questions any barriers to international trade. Last but not least, we have UK Export Finance, our award-winning credit agency, which has increasing numbers of staff not only [914268] Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): If she across this United Kingdom, but across the world to will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities. make sure that SMEs, wherever they go, can be financed and supported to realise those opportunities, which are The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth many. Truss): On 4 March, we struck a historic deal with the US Administration, heralding the end of the 16-year [914266] Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op) Airbus-Boeing dispute. The deal removes the 25% tariffs [V]: Sixty per cent. of Wales’s exports have been to the on some UK exports, such as Scotch whisky, cashmere EU and steel is of great importance. Given that the and machinery. It paves the way for an even deeper Government’s own Office for Budget Responsibility trading relationship with one of our closest friends and forecasts showed that the Brexit deal would lead to a allies. I continue to work with the US trade representative 4% reduction in our GDP, and given that they are on the deal and on our broader trading relationship. removing the safeguards on steel in June, does the Secretary of State accept that the overall amount and Jason McCartney [V]: As co-chair of the all-party value of exports from Wales in the next five years will group for Fairtrade, may I please ask the Secretary of be less than it was in the previous five years due to the State what steps her Department is taking to make sure Government’s policies? that our trade policies help and support Fairtrade farmers and growers across the world? Elizabeth Truss: First, we are not removing the safeguards in June. When we were part of the EU, decisions about Elizabeth Truss: I congratulate my hon. Friend on his safeguards were made on an independent basis. Nobody work on the all-party group. The UK is a long-standing on the Opposition side of the House complained about supporter and champion of Fairtrade. We are opening that then, but they seem to object to independent decisions up markets with developing countries such as Kenya being made when we are a sovereign nation, which I and Ghana. We will shortly be launching our new find utterly bizarre. And I do not agree with the hon. general scheme of preferences, which will give more Gentleman’s pessimistic prognosis of the future of Welsh access to developing countries, helping them to grow exports. We have massive opportunities for more beef through trade. exports, more lamb exports, more car exports and more aerospace exports, and that is what we are going to do [914265] Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab): through our new trade and investment hub in Cardiff. It The New Zealand Government announced last month is going to be driving those opportunities and I urge their policy towards countries such as the UK seeking him to get behind it. to join the Trans-Pacific Partnership. They said: “New members…will need to comply with the existing…agreement. [914274] Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con) [V]: In Ipswich, we The text of the Agreement will not change. Current rules and are fortunate to have an incredibly engaged local Indian obligations…will not change.” community, many of whom run businesses sourcing 477 Oral Answers 15 APRIL 2021 Oral Answers 478 goods coming from India. Also down the road, let us The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for not forget, is Felixstowe, which takes in most of the International Trade (Mr Ranil Jayawardena): The text, goods that come in from India and then go around the and a parliamentary report and explanatory memorandum, rest of the country. Do the Government have any plans will of course come before Parliament in due course. We to closely engage with local communities, such as the wish to utilise the agreement to strengthen the trade ties Indian community in Ipswich, and possibly introduce between our two countries. I look forward to the Labour cultural exchanges to bridge any cultural barriers there party supporting our agenda to create more jobs in may be and therefore increase and boost trade between every part of this country and in Cameroon. our country and our close friends, India? [914280] Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield) (Con): I have Elizabeth Truss: I would be delighted to engage with been delighted to work with the excellent team at the the local Indian community in Ipswich and across the Department of International Trade in setting up the country, because I think we have huge opportunities to parliamentary export programme in Wakefield, which expand our trade with India. It is currently £24 billion, several Wakefield businesses have joined. The programme but it could be so much more. We are currently working has allowed them to learn the benefits of exporting on an enhanced trade partnership with the Indian under the free trade agreements that my right hon. Government and I look forward to engaging with my Friend the Secretary of State and her excellent, dynamic hon. Friend and the people of Ipswich to make it team have signed thus far. With more free trade agreements happen. to be ratified, including with blocs such as the CPTPP, can my right hon. Friend outline to the House what [914267] Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab): May I ask benefits these new agreements will bring to businesses the Secretary of State if she understands the frustration in Wakefield and across West Yorkshire? of the Cheshire Cheese Company, whose co-founder, I understand, spoke to officials in her Department before Easter about the problems that they are facing exporting The Minister for Trade Policy (Greg Hands): I thank to the EU? Extraordinarily, instead of being given my hon. Friend for promoting the trade agenda so advice on how to fix the problem, they were advised to effectively in Wakefield. He is quite right that free trade look for other emerging markets. Given the Secretary of agreements have a crucial role to play in enabling the State’s infamous passion for cheese, will she tell us UK to seize international opportunities to support that whether her departmental officials could not have done economic vision. Joining CPTPP now will benefit businesses better? in a number of ways, including through ambitious rules supporting digital trade and reduced tariffs on UK Elizabeth Truss: I am very happy to help the cheese exports, enabling us to build back better and building company export not just to the EU, but around the more opportunities for businesses, supporting jobs in world. constituencies such as Wakefield.
[914277] Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con) [V]: Since [914275] Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP) [V]: In its the announcement that Immingham and the Humber annual report on human rights around the world, Amnesty ports have been designated as a freeport and that their International says that the UK Government’s increasingly application scored high in every category, businesses hostile attitude towards upholding and preserving human from around my constituency have been contacting me rights legislation raises “serious concerns”. Indeed, the to welcome the announcement. They see it as part of report specifically cited the resumption of the sale of the Government’s global Britain policies. What plans new licences for military exports to Saudi Arabia. Does does the Department have to ensure that they can the Minister agree with Amnesty International’sconclusion benefit from the freeport and explore new markets? that this shameful move has contributed to the UK’s Graham Stuart: Like my hon. Friend, I am celebrating “headlong rush into abandoning...human rights”? the freeport, which will make a positive difference and from which businesses will be able to export all around Mr Jayawardena: Not at all. We have always been the world. Our export academy, the new export strategy clear that more trade need not come at the expense of and other elements are all there to help them to make our values, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of the most of it, as well as, of course, probably the most State made clear earlier today. We have one of the most ambitious trade policy ever conducted by a major economy robust systems of arms export controls in the world and in history, which we are successfully prosecuting. If I have always been clear that we will only permit exports may, Mr Speaker, I would also like to thank my hon. on a case-by-case basis where the consolidated criteria Friend for briefing me ahead of my visit to Serbia last are upheld. week, prosecuting the case for British businesses, in his role as the Prime Minister’s trade envoy to the western Balkans. [914288] Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con) [V]: Will my right hon. Friend set out what progress her Department is making on meeting the 2.3% public sector apprenticeship [914269] Kate Osamor (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: It is now almost six weeks since the Government signed target and when it will meet it, and also say what she is a trade agreement between the UK and Cameroon, doing to encourage all the businesses that she speaks to which many of us want to read, to see how it will about international trade to employ apprentices? address the shocking human rights abuses taking place in that country. Will the Secretary of State explain why Greg Hands: I commend my right hon. Friend for his the agreement has not yet been laid before Parliament, work to promote apprenticeships, first in the Government and will she guarantee a debate when it is? and then as Chair of the Education Committee. It is too 479 Oral Answers 15 APRIL 2021 Oral Answers 480 early to have final figures for 2021, but we are confident Mr Speaker: I am now suspending the House for of achieving the legislative target set, building on our three minutes to enable the necessary arrangements to previousperformance.AccordingtoCabinetOfficestatistics, be made for the next business. DIT achieved 3.5% of its total workforce in England as apprenticeship starts in 2019-20, up from 1.1% the year 10.28 am before, easily clearing the target of 2.3%. Sitting suspended. 481 15 APRIL 2021 University Students: Compensation 482 for Lost Teaching and Rent University Students: Compensation for of a lack of study space. We have asked universities to Lost Teaching and Rent make their facilities available to all students who are back, to support their mental health and wellbeing. I end by assuring the House that I will continue to 10.32 am work closely with universities so that, together, we can Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD) (Urgent Question): support students, and especially those who will graduate To ask the Secretary of State for Education, if he will this year. make a statement on the return date given to university students and his Department’s plans to provide financial Daisy Cooper [V]: About 36 hours ago, around 1 million compensation to university students for lost teaching students who have still not returned to university since and rent during the coronavirus pandemic. Christmas were told that they should not expect to do so until at least 17 May. Before that announcement, it The Minister for Universities (Michelle Donelan): This seemed that the Government had forgotten them altogether, Government recognise just how difficult the past year and now we have proof that they had, because for has been for students. Since the arrival of new and many students that date comes after their courses have highly transmissible variants, we have had to adopt a actually finished. cautious approach, in line with the wider restrictions. In This feels like a final, end-of-term insult to university January, we enabled only students on critical key worker students, who have had months of not being able to use courses to return, and from 8 March we allowed practical libraries or labs, months without taking part in student and creative students to resume face-to-face teaching. societies or extracurricular activities, months of paying This week, we have announced that the final tranche of rent for accommodation that they could not use and students will be able to return on 17 May, subject to months without being able to work, with some falling step 3 of the road map. This decision was made, as behind on rent and bills and needing to feed themselves promised, following a review during the Easter holidays. from food banks. Is it any wonder that more than 50% of I understand the frustrations of students and parents; students say their mental health has got worse? the pandemic has disproportionately impacted our young. Students must be fairly compensated, both financially That is one of the key reasons why we have worked with for rent and fees and with support to recover the learning universities to ensure that education carried on throughout time they have lost. The Government must more than and that students can graduate on time. double the funds for those facing hardship to £700 million, Many things are indeed opening up in step 2, but as suggested by the all-party parliamentary group for most are outside and social mixing remains focused students. outside, and they do not involve the formation of new Universities across the country have worked really households. Weknow that, inside, the risk of transmission hard. They have adapted to deliver courses online and increases with the number of people mixing and the invested considerable sums in doing so. However, the length of time they are together, which is why we are higher education sector is already facing huge financial being cautious until stage 3. uncertainty, so it is clear that universities alone cannot The Office for National Statistics estimates that 23% of be expected to compensate students. The Government students are yet to return to their termtime accommodation, must step in. Will the Minister consider conducting a which still leaves up to 500,000 students yet to travel. rapid review of the impact of the pandemic on university Throughout the pandemic, the Scientific Advisory Group students and giving that review the powers to make for Emergencies has warned of the risk posed by the recommendations on how students should be reimbursed mass movement of students, especially given that they by the Government in financial and learning terms? form new households. Will she consider calls to double the funds available to At the heart of our decision was public health, but students facing financial hardship to £700 million? Finally, also student wellbeing. The last thing any of us wants is will she say sorry for the Government’s role in wrecking for students to have to repeatedly self-isolate, as some the last academic year for so many young people? did last autumn. That would not only have been damaging to their mental health and wellbeing, but would have Michelle Donelan: I will address the hon. Member’s risked the ability to graduate of some students studying first point regarding 17 May. She is correct to say that creative and practical subjects. some students will have reached, or will be approaching, the end of their course. However, a great number will This decision was taken not in isolation, but as part not, and it is important to give them the opportunity to of the Government’s overall road map to reopening. get back, for the wider university experience as well. Every relaxation—even those with a low impact and low risk—will have an impact, so we have to judge the In regard to monitoring the impact on students, we impact of these relaxations cumulatively to ensure that constantly do that, and have done so throughout the the road map is irreversible. pandemic, and I will ensure that we continue to do so. On financial support, we have now given an additional The Government do recognise the financial pressures £85 million, which is targeted at those most in need and the pandemic has placed on students in the financial getting the money into their pockets. On the impact of sense, including accommodation costs. That is why, this the pandemic, yes, we all know how challenging it has week, we have announced an additional £15 million, on been and continues to be for students, and that is why top of the £70 million since last December and the students have had a disrupted year. £256 million of taxpayer funding that we enabled universities to access for hardship. Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con) [V]: In 2018, just It is important to clarify that the exemptions still 12.3% of the most disadvantaged pupils in England apply to students who need to return to their term-time were accepted into higher education institutions. The accommodation for mental health reasons or because Minister’s passion and mine is to ensure that more 483 University Students: Compensation 15 APRIL 2021 University Students: Compensation 484 for Lost Teaching and Rent for Lost Teaching and Rent [Robert Halfon] had to review the data. The announcement made on 5 April was regarding the things that would open up in people from disadvantaged backgrounds attend higher step 2. education, but does she agree that the proposal by Hull On further education and schools, the difference is University to drop the requirement for students to that these youngsters do not go and form new households, demonstrate a high-level proficiency in written and nor do they travel across the country. On the data we spoken English is entirely the wrong way to go about have reviewed, we have considered the latest epidemiology that? It is patronising and counterproductive. Is it not data, alongside public health, economic, educational better for universities to work with schools and colleges and other implications of the return. A wealth of data, to ensure that all pupils reach the required standards of papers and evidence is and will continue to be published. literacy to secure places on quality degree courses and degree apprenticeships? David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con) [V]: I thank my hon. Friend for the extensive time Michelle Donelan: I agree with my right hon. Friend; that I know she has personally devoted to ensuring that I am appalled by the decision of some universities to students from my constituency get a fair deal from their drop literacy standards in assessments—that is misguided universities, on a case-by-case basis. But given that and it is dumbing down standards. That will never help universities are autonomous and independent of disadvantaged students. Instead, the answer is to lift up Government, does she agree that the example set by the standards and provide high-quality education. I assure best universities, which have been very proactive in him that we will act on this, in line with our manifesto ensuring students are treated appropriately, should be commitments on quality. seen as an example for the others to follow, so that we ensure that all students who have not received the Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): Last services in education or accommodation they paid for week, there was an exam-room silence from the Government are fairly dealt with by those institutions? on when universities would return, with students, their families and university staff learning from newspapers Michelle Donelan: University staff have worked what was only announced to this House days later: that exceptionally hard over the past year to enable students many students would not return to campus until 17 May. to continue learning, and I want to take this opportunity Why has this announcement come so late, and why was to once again thank them for that. If students do have it briefed to the newspapers instead of being announced concerns, they should raise them with their university, to those affected? Does the Minister not see that this is which has a duty, under consumer rights, to have a deeply disrespectful to the students and staff alike? For transparent and timely complaints process. They can weeks, we have had students studying technical and then escalate that to the Office of the Independent creative subjects safely, thanks to the incredible work of Adjudicator if they remain unsatisfied universities and staff, and for many weeks students have been back in further education settings, so will the Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab): I wonder Minister explain why further and higher education settings whether the Universities Minister can help me respond have been treated so differently? Her written statement to a query I have had this morning from a constituent, ignored the work of universities and the existing situation who asks me why his siblings can return to in-person in colleges, and offered no evidence to support this teaching in school and college, he can get a haircut and approach. So will she tell us what the scientific basis was he can return to his part-time job in non-essential retail, for this decision, and will she commit to publishing this but he cannot return to his university to continue his advice today, so that she is at least forthcoming with studies in person until after this academic year of teaching students and the sector? has finished. Student debt after graduating from an undergraduate degree is, on average, £40,000. Peter asks The Minister announced a further £15 million this me why he is paying £9,250 a year for in-person teaching year for hardship funding. Further support is clearly that has not materialised this year. needed, but, once again, the Government are simply not working to the scale of the challenge. The funding Michelle Donelan: I assure the hon. Member that we offered to students in England is far smaller than that are confident that in-person teaching and learning can offered by the Labour Government in Wales. Will the be delivered in covid-secure environments, but the area Minister tell us why her Government believe that students of concern has and always will be the movement of in England need so much less than those elsewhere? At students and the formation of new households, which every stage of this pandemic, children, young people does not occur in schools and further education colleges. and students have been an afterthought for this Many of the things that we are opening up in stage 2 Government, let down time and again. Will the Minister focus on being outside. Social mixing remains focused finally admit that these young people have been failed on being outside. The key thing is that they do not and tell the House what she will do to address it? involve the formation of a new household. Throughout the entire process, we have been clear that students Michelle Donelan: I agree with the hon. Gentleman should still expect the quality of education, the quantity that it has been an extremely challenging and disruptive of provision and for it to be accessible for all. year for students, and I assure him that students have never been and will never be an afterthought for this Joy Morrissey (Beaconsfield) (Con): As university Government. In fact, this week we made a statement courses remain primarily online until the middle of next regarding the details of the plan for the remainder of month to control the spread of coronavirus, will the students returning. We conducted a review over the Minister confirm that universities continue to be expected Easter holidays, as we had publicly announced we would to deliver the same quality and quantity of online do, and we wanted to maximise the amount of time we learning as they have throughout the year? Will she 485 University Students: Compensation 15 APRIL 2021 University Students: Compensation 486 for Lost Teaching and Rent for Lost Teaching and Rent encourage universities to extend their teaching and and deaths. We are talking about the mass movement reviews so that students may experience classroom learning of, potentially, up to 500,000 students forming new before their exams? households. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Minister Michelle Donelan: The Government do indeed expect for her reply to the urgent question. Are there plans to the quantity and quality of teaching to be maintained ensure that the help towards bills that students studying and to continue to be accessible for all, whether it is in Northern Ireland were able to access under the covid delivered in person or online. Quality is in fact an Office study disruption payment scheme rolled out by the for Students registration condition, and students who Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland will have concerns may notify the OfS. I thank all higher be replicated in mainland UK for Northern Ireland education staff, who have worked tirelessly throughout, students studying here, so that they have financial aid to enabling students to continue their learning. offset their huge bills for minimal interaction and teaching? Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab): Laura Michelle Donelan: The scheme in Northern Ireland Halliwell and Isaac Grinnell are two university students has aimed to support those in financial hardship, as on student placement schemes in my office. They have we have, but what we have done is slightly different. We both raised concerns about their peers’ experiences have distributed £70 million and now an additional during this academic year about lost teaching, mental £15 million—a total of £85 million—of hardship money health pressures and accommodation rent payments. As to universities to help those most in need, including many students have been unable to go to their universities international and postgraduate students. That is the this year, missing out on teaching and the many other process we have used to get money into the pockets of opportunities such as student societies and mental health those most in need. services, why does the Minister think it is okay to charge £9,250 for university tuition fees this year? Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con) [V]: I have been contacted by some university students from Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke who have Michelle Donelan: I would like to clarify that the felt the closure of universities more acutely from the Government do not charge £9,250 for tuition fees; additional costs of alternative accommodation, loss of universities do, as autonomous institutions. The employment and the extra costs of accessing teaching Government set the maximum level at which universities online. Can my hon. Friend assure me that the £85 million may continue to charge. Every university has opted to in total support being made available will deliver tangible do that and, in return, we have said that we expect the help to those left financially struggling? quantity and quality of provision to be maintained, and for that to be accessible for all. If students have concerns, Michelle Donelan: I agree with my hon. Friend, and they should take it to their university and, if they that is why we are focused on getting money into the remain unsatisfied, go to the OIA, which can lead and pockets of the students who need it now. Universities has led to fee refunds. No one, however, is doubting have flexibility in how they distribute this funding in a how challenging and different the past year has been for way that will best prioritise those in need, but it must be students. spent on supporting students, including international students,postgraduatestudentsanddomesticundergraduate Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con): Professor Whitty students. My message to any student listening is that if has said that the risk to 19 to 22-year-olds is very low. they need help, they should approach their university Professor Valance has said that the return of universities and ask for it. There is no stigma attached. in the previous wave was not associated with transmission into the towns in which they are located. We know that Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab): I universities are some of the best settings in the country have been inundated with messages from students and for rigorous testing. Ten million pupils at schools and their families who are really worried about the impossible colleges went back on 8 March without incident. So position they are in, having suffered huge restrictions to why are these precious weeks for university students their education and social life and facing a mountain of being lost to them, despite the evidence that we now student debt. Do the Government have a proper plan to have? Will my hon. Friend think again about this date? address that? Can we put some energy into fighting for Every week is precious in the limited periods that people these young people? have at university. There are questions about careers Michelle Donelan: I assure the hon. Member that I guidance for people about to graduate. Will she look have put energy into fighting for these students. That is again at the evidence and if, as I suspect it justifies exactly why I prioritised ensuring that they can graduate doing so, bring forward the return date? on time, in creative and practical subjects, and that we can support them financially, particularly those who are Michelle Donelan: We have continued to review the in hardship. Again, I urge any student who is facing evidence. We did a comprehensive review over Easter, hardship to approach their university. These are really taking advice from the likes of the Deputy Chief Medical difficult times for students and their families, and as we Officer and the Chief Medical Officer and looking at navigate through the pandemic, we hope that there is the advice from SAGE, the Scientific Advisory Group light at the end of the tunnel and that next year will be for Emergencies. I agree with my right hon. Friend that much easier for students. it is disappointing that we cannot get students back earlier and it is a very difficult situation for the students Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): Bucks New involved, but we cannot move too fast, too soon. That University in Wycombe will want to be in a position to would risk a resurgence in infections, hospitalisations address the logical inconsistency that has come up 487 University Students: Compensation 15 APRIL 2021 University Students: Compensation 488 for Lost Teaching and Rent for Lost Teaching and Rent [Mr Steve Baker] not have to put their academic journeys or their lives on hold. Wehave seen some fantastic and innovative examples several times in the House, which is that students cannot of this approach, but the Government have been clear return to university but can go to non-essential retail, throughout that we expect the quality, quantity and including to work in it. I have listened carefully to what accessibility of tuition to be maintained. Wehave targeted my hon. Friend has said. Is the heart of the matter that our financial support to those in hardship and in getting students returning to university form new households? cash into the pockets of those who need it. Any loan Is that what the Government are really worried about? rebates would not achieve that.
Michelle Donelan: We had to make this decision on Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab): We all understand balance in relation to all the things that we were relaxing, the need for caution, but we have heard that the problem because everything—even something with the slightest seems to be about the formation of new households and risk—could impact our pathway out of the pandemic. so on. May I urge the Minister to talk to universities, My hon. Friend is right: one of our key concerns was because not all universities are the same? The timings of the mass movement of students—potentially up to 500,000 terms and the patterns of accommodation are not all additional students—across England and the UK and the same. Rather than have this fixed, hard “No, it can’t the formation of new households. be done until 17 May”, can we not try to look for some solutions? Will she talk to Universities UK about what Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab) can be done to help? [V]: Last month, I held an open meeting with students in my constituency.They raised issues including financial Michelle Donelan: I regularly engage with universities. hardship—current funding is wholly inadequate—and Just yesterday, I spoke to Universities UK and also held mental wellbeing, lack of planning, tuition fees, rent, a taskforce with university sector representatives. We professional accreditation and digital exclusion. This is need an approach that is fair across the board to students, not a question of consumer rights, as the Minister and also that is workable and deliverable. The hon. suggests; it is a question of students’ futures after the Member is quite right, every university and higher pandemic. I have written to the Secretary of State, but education institution is slightly different, so it would be what does the Minister say to students in Newcastle impossible to create a bespoke, detailed model. Our upon Tyne Central who feel wholly abandoned by this goal has always been to get all of the student population Government? back as quickly as we possibly can.
Michelle Donelan: Once again, I reiterate that the Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con) Government appreciate how difficult and challenging [V]: Students across Arundel and South Downs have this has been for students. It has not been the university told me of their disappointment with this week’s experience that any of us would have wanted for them, announcement. Will the Minister confirm that those and that is why we are working with universities to build students with inadequate study space or mental health back on the student experience as soon as they return. or wellbeing issues may return now to their term-time We are also working on a package of support for those address and that universities have been asked to open who are graduating this year. facilities such as libraries, catering and gyms to support those who have returned? I have asked universities throughout the pandemic to prioritise mental health, setting up Student Space with Michelle Donelan: My hon. Friend is correct. Universities the OfS, which is a £3 million additional platform, and should support the return of students for mental health setting up a working group and a Department for reasons and those who have inadequate study spaces. Education action group co-chaired by the Minister for Universities can now reopen a number of facilities, so Children and Families.Wehave now dedicated an additional we have asked them to allow access to all students who £50 million to mental health via the OfS through the are back in term-time accommodation, to safeguard teaching grant next year. This is a priority for both student wellbeing and to prevent isolation. the Government, and we recognise the impact that the pandemic has had on the wellbeing and mental health Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab) [V]: The of students. inquiry of the all-party parliamentary group for students in January received testimony from hundreds who felt Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con) [V]: Every MP will that they had been overlooked: losing the income on have heard from constituents that, compared with previous which they depend from casual jobs that have disappeared years, the quality and quantity of provision for students and ineligible for the support available to other workers; since March 2020 has not be maintained. That is certainly paying rent for accommodation that they cannot use; my experience. The Government have done a remarkable and missing learning experiences despite the best efforts and world-leading job in supporting businesses, families of universities and their staff. The Minister knows that and all sorts of people across the country through the the Government’s response in February and again on pandemic. Surely they can find a way simply to write off Tuesday fell far short of what was needed. Students in the student loans borrowed in 2020-21. It will not solve Northern Ireland have received support worth more the whole of the problem, but it is a significant step that than £500 each, in Wales £300, in Scotland £80, and in will support students and remind them that we are on England just £43.70. Does she understand why students their side and that we have hope for their future. describe themselves as being forgotten?
Michelle Donelan: I would like to remark on the Michelle Donelan: The difference is that we have resilience of students during this pandemic. University started from a position of unlocking £256 million so staff have worked tirelessly to ensure that students did that universities can support hardship. That is on top of 489 University Students: Compensation 15 APRIL 2021 University Students: Compensation 490 for Lost Teaching and Rent for Lost Teaching and Rent the new money of £85 million that we have now dedicated. least, it was for me. Will my hon. Friend please update We cannot look at it on a per-student basis. We are very the House on what we are doing to support the mental open and honest that this is not a per-student calculation; health of students who are not yet back at university? this is a targeted fund to support those most in need. Universities UK has estimated, and its studies show, Michelle Donelan: My hon. Friend is right: the wider that, on average, hardship funding is about £1,000 for student experience has been extremely impacted over each student. I do not want any student in England to the last year, despite the hard work of universities and feel forgotten. This Government have certainly not forgotten student unions. UUK is sharing best practice and ideas them, and we wholeheartedly accept how difficult and to support universities to prioritise and enrich the student challenging the past year has been for them. experience on return, and we are working with UUK on that. Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con) [V]: North Devon Throughout the pandemic, I have reiterated to universities is the first place in England to record no covid cases for the importance of prioritising mental health and wellbeing a week this year, and our students are keen to return to and worked with them to enable that, including by campus. Will my hon. Friend detail what measures are convening a mental health working group. We have also in place to ensure that they can do so safely, as they will worked closely with the OfS and launched Student inevitably be travelling to an area with higher rates of Space, a £3 million mental health platform through infection? which students can access support during the pandemic. Michelle Donelan: Universities continue to make Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab) [V]: Time spent significant investments in student and staff safety— away from in-person learning has had a particularly including updated risk assessments,assessments of adequate damaging impact on students from deprived and ventilation and covid-secure measures such as mandatory disadvantaged backgrounds. Goldsmiths, University of social distancing, hand washing and face coverings—and London has raised with me its concerns about the testing is available to all students, who should currently widening gap between students from wealthy backgrounds, be tested twice a week at their university test centre. who have networks to help them to find jobs beyond From 17 May, we will move to home testing, with university, and those from low-income families, who do students first asked to take three PCR tests at their not. To ensure that the gap in social mobility does not university test centre.1 hold students back in the job market, what steps will the Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab) [V]: Minister take to make sure that tailored careers support For my constituent Harry Wild, who faces finals in and advice are provided? June, May is too late. Given that pubs, shops, barbers and gyms are now open, why is he still forking out Michelle Donelan: We are currently working with £9,250, plus accommodation, for no direct staff contact? universities and sector representatives on a package of Doing a head of highlights requires far more close support for those who will graduate this year. It is contact than distanced content delivery,which is happening important to note that we have already done a number in the Chamber as we speak. Is Harry being penalised of things, including putting an additional £32 million for studying in England? In Labour Wales, hybrid blended into the national careers service. The number of work learning is already happening on campus. coaches in this country is now up to 27,000, and we have the skills toolkit, which is a fantastic free resource Michelle Donelan: We are confident that in-person that enables students or graduates to access courses that teaching and learning can be delivered in a covid-secure will add to their employability. environment; the area of concern has been and always will be the mass movement of students and the formation Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): Has the Minister’s of new households. As the hon. Member pointed out, Department done any assessment of the impact on the many things are indeed opening up, but most of them levels of attainment and grades that might be achieved are outside and involve social mixing outside, and the in finals this year? If it is less than normal, will some key thing is that they do not involve the formation of sort of gearing be put into the system to ensure that new households. students are not penalised by the fact that they have had to do so much work away from the university, without Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): I thank the Minister for the advantage of attending a library, for instance? her work throughout the pandemic to support students from Redcar and Cleveland and those studying at Teesside Michelle Donelan: Universities are autonomous University. Just like in all walks of life, regular testing institutions and all run their own assessments, so every will be vital to getting life at universities back to normal. single one of them is different in this respect. However, Can she confirm that no student will have to pay for the Government are advocating that they introduce covid tests to return to their studies? policies that mitigate some of the impact of the pandemic and that they are fair in doing so. Some have chosen to Michelle Donelan: I can indeed. I agree with my hon. introduce no-detriment policies, for instance. However, Friend that testing plays an important part in mitigating this will not work in all cases—for example, if a university the risk of transmission and assure him that under no does not have enough information to do a no-detriment circumstances will any student have to incur financial policy, or if the regulatory body that accredits the costs as a result of participating in our testing programme. course is against that. My understanding from my work with universities is that they are on the whole being Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con): I am very concerned extremely flexible and accommodating for students and about the mental health of students who are still not appreciate the sheer scale of the challenges that students back at university. I am conscious that the university have faced over the last year. I will continue to monitor experience is about way more than lectures and tutorials—at the situation and work with universities on this. 1.[Official Report, 20 April 2021, Vol. 692, c. 4MC.] 491 University Students: Compensation 15 APRIL 2021 University Students: Compensation 492 for Lost Teaching and Rent for Lost Teaching and Rent Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op) they want is a fair deal from their accommodation [V]: There is increasing concern from students who have provider. What plans do the Government have to address not been able to take many of the part-time jobs that this? they would otherwise have been able to. They are not eligible for much of the Government support and they Michelle Donelan: We have urged accommodation are having to continue to pay rent. Some universities providers to have students’ best interests at heart, to have been good, of course, but the private sector has review their policies and to give refunds where they can, not been. Is it not now time for the Government to have and a number have done so, including a plethora of serious plans to address this hardship, as we have seen universities and private providers such as Unite. The in Wales, and not just the pittance that has been given, hardship money is there for those students who have on a discretionary basis, to students, many of whom are faced a situation where they cannot access a refund. I not able to access it properly? again urge all students to access that, particularly if accommodation pressures are putting them in financial Michelle Donelan: It is important to remember that difficulties. we have unlocked £256 million of taxpayers’ money for universities to access to support those in hardship, and Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con) [V]: I congratulate we have allocated an additional £85 million. It is right my hon. Friend on the excellent work she has done in that we have targeted that to those who are most in supporting students and universities across this very need, rather than allocating it as a blanket payment, difficult period. Clearly, students are now consumers— which would have diluted the support available to those consumers enabled to demand the best from their who genuinely need it at the moment. Once again, I universities—and the key point here is getting value for reiterate my message to any student who is facing money. I know that she is trying to do that. Can she also hardship: please come forward to your university and state the position in relation to international students? access that help. That includes international students Many universities are wholly dependent now on the and postgraduate students. income from international students. What advice is being given to those students, who are equally consumers Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Con): I thank the of our education? Minister for literally being on call on evenings and weekends to answer any questions we have had on Michelle Donelan: The Government’s expectations universities on a case-by-case basis. University should are clear: universities should maintain the quality,quantity be some of the best days of your life. I know that the and accessibility of provision. If a student, whether hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith) international or domestic, is unhappy, they can utilise will join me in thinking the same, given our shared time the OfS notifications procedure to pre-empt a review, or in Lancaster. However, the past year has raised severe make a formal complaint to their university. If they are mental health issues for everyone, as we have heard. still unsatisfied, they can go to the OIA, which can lead What conversations is the Minister having with education to fee refunds and has done in the past. providers to support students’ health, mental health Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): The and wellbeing when they return? latest ONS statistics show that around three quarters of students are already back in their term-time Michelle Donelan: My hon. Friend touches on a accommodation. Does the Minister agree that the really important point. Throughout this pandemic I Government’s failure to provide any information or have reiterated to universities and sector bodies the guidance whatsoever until so very late in the day meant importance of prioritising student wellbeing and mental that many students travelled unnecessarily in anticipation health and moving that provision online in tandem with of starting back after Easter? academic provision. I convened a working group to enable this. I have worked with the OfS to launch Michelle Donelan: We have continued to give guidance Student Space—a £3 million mental health project. We and advice to students throughout. We wanted to give continue to evaluate the situation. We have also launched the maximum period possible to review the data because an action group with the Under-Secretary of State for our objective has always been to get students back as Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford soon as we possibly can. At every stage, we have written (Vicky Ford), looking at mental health across the spectrum to students and communicated with them via universities, of education, because these challenges are not going but I do get how challenging it is and how disappointing away and we need to continue to support students it will be for some students not to be able to resume throughout this period. face-to-face teaching until 17 May. Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: I have Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con): It is telling two privately run student accommodation blocks in my that the first step on the roadmap was education, so we constituency,which in normal times are home to hundreds know how seriously the Government take that subject. of students from London’s top universities. Because of Will the Minister confirm that the highest rates of the travel restrictions and physical closure, they have transmission among students are in university halls of had to live elsewhere for most of the year, but they still residence and house sharing, so, regrettable as it is to continue to pay the rent. These students have exhausted have to delay the recommencement, it is simply a fact all means, including discussions with their accommodation that we have to ensure the safety of this nation and that provider, and they have been looking at trying to case rates continue to be suppressed? terminate their contracts or to be offered a rent reduction, but to no avail. They have been put into an impossible Michelle Donelan: The Government have committed position, having faced huge restrictions on their education to taking a cautious approach to easing restrictions, and their social life, but they are still paying rent. All guided by the data instead of dates. Encouraging students 493 University Students: Compensation 15 APRIL 2021 494 for Lost Teaching and Rent on non-practical courses to return to in-person teaching Business of the House will potentially lead to a significant number of students forming new households from across the country—up to 500,000—and enabling this to proceed too early may 11.17 am result in significant, higher numbers of infection and Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): Will the Leader of could increase the risk of students having to repeatedly the House please give us the forthcoming business? self-isolate, which I am sure none of us would want. The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Jacob Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I thank the Rees-Mogg): The business for the week commencing Minister for responding to the urgent question; there 19 April will include: were 29 questions in just over 40 minutes. We will now MONDAY 19 APRIL —Consideration in Committee of suspend for a short period. the Finance Bill (Day 1). 11.12 am TUESDAY 20 APRIL —Continuation of consideration in Sitting suspended. Committee of the Finance Bill (Day 2). WEDNESDAY 21 APRIL—Motion to approve a statutory instrument relating to counter terrorism, followed by consideration of Lords amendments to the Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) Bill, followed by a debate on the sixth report from the Committee on Standards relating to confidentiality in the House’s standards system and the seventh report from the Committee on Standards relating to sanctions in respect of the conduct of Members, followed by a motion relating to membership of the Parliamentary Works Sponsor Body. THURSDAY 22 APRIL—Debate on the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, eight report of Session 2019-21, on Government Transparency and Accountability During Covid 19: The Data Underpinning Decisions, followed by a debate on a motion on mass human rights abuses and crimes against humanity in the Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region. The subjects for those debates were determined by the Backbench Business Committee. FRIDAY 23APRIL—The House will not be sitting. The provisional business for the week commencing 26 April will include: MONDAY 26 APRIL —If necessary, consideration of Lords amendments, followed by a motion to approve the Warm Home Discount (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2021; followed by a motion to approve the Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing (Amendment) (High-Risk Countries) Regulations 2020 (S.I., 2021, No.392); followed by a motion relating to the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (England) (Amendment) (No.7) Regulations 2021 (S.I., 2021, No.150).
Valerie Vaz: Follow that, as they say. I thank the Leader of the House for the business. I note that there is the possibility of proroguing on 29 April, and we only have the business up until the 26th, so we look forward to a further announcement. I start by sending my condolences and those of Opposition Members who have not had the opportunity to send them to our Gracious Sovereign and her family on the sad passing of His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Philip. We must remember him not just as the Queen’s consort but as a husband of 73 years. I know that the country will want to remember his good works, his deeds and his wonderful personality as he is laid to rest on Saturday. May he rest in peace. Yet again, we have to have the Prime Minister come back to clarify his remarks. Yesterday, he said at Prime Minister’s questions that he may not “agree with everything” in the report from the Commission on Race 495 Business of the House15 APRIL 2021 Business of the House 496
[Valerie Vaz] Simon Case has acted—immediately—on the civil servants, so why has Sir Alex Allan’s post not been filled and and Ethnic Disparities, but it is a Government report. when will the statements covering relevant ministerial They set it up: it is out of No. 10 and out of the Cabinet interests be published? We should have had two a year, Office. It is totally discredited, as at least 20 organisations but the last one was in December 2019. I think the and individuals listed as stakeholders have distanced Government will look sleazy if they do not publish themselves from the report. them. Former Prime Ministers released quarterly lists It is not clear what this took into account because the of donors meetings. I think the Government will look 2017 McGregor-Smith report, commissioned by the sleazy if they do not publish that, so I ask the Leader of then Business Secretary, the right hon. Member for the House: when could we have those published? Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid), on race in the workplace, To coin a phrase, can I ask the Leader of the House said: to push the team at the Foreign, Commonwealth and “In the UK today, there is a structural, historical bias that Development Office for an update on Nazanin and favours certain individuals.” Anoosheh, who has had a 67th birthday in prison? The racism at work survey published in 2019 said that They are all in Vienna discussing it, and we need an over 70% of black, Asian and minority ethnic workers update. had been racially harassed at work in the last five years. We have lost some incredible people in the House, Between October and December, 41% of black people and I want to pay tribute to Dame Cheryl Gillan. I aged 16 to 24 were out of work compared with 12.4% of worked with her on the all-party parliamentary group their white counterparts. Forty years on from the Brixton on epilepsy. She brought to the House and put on the riots, black unemployment for that quarter was at the statute book the Autism Act 2009, which means we same level as it was as in 1980s. I urge the Leader of the value people on the spectrum and know they have House: please could we have a debate in Government hidden talents.She did that through her tireless campaigning time on the report? There are too many unanswered for 29 years as a Member of Parliament. We will not questions. forget; it seems like only yesterday that she was berating Today marks 32 years since the Hillsborough disaster, the Leader of the House for changing the hybrid procedure. and the families have worked tirelessly in campaigning Ian Gibson was a geneticist and a former MP for for an inquiry, and that is why it is important to get the Norwich North from 1997 to 2009. He was Chair of the inquiry right on the Greensill debacle. I do not know Science and Technology Select Committee and joint whether the Government think the country is stupid, manager of the parliamentary football team. I met him but we are absolutely incredulous at asking a person through the Manufacturing, Science and Finance union. who serves as a non-executive in the Department for He was so kind to people starting off on their political Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy to lead the journey. inquiry.The Minister for the Constitution and Devolution said yesterday that she has had to suspend him as a James Winston was valued and respected across both non-exec. The legal profession is brimming full of talent Houses and by all parts of the Chamber. He worked in lawyers with absolutely no connection with the with Members in pursuit of peace and reconciliation in Government, BEIS or anything. Why do we not have Northern Ireland, and we mourn his loss, especially at one of them? this time. The Prime Minister said yesterday that it is a difficult Then there is Shirley Williams—Baroness Williams. line with the civil service and “boundaries”are blurred—that Despite being the daughter of George Catlin and Vera was his word—but, no, civil servants do not have two Brittain, she managed to carve her own way. She was jobs. A secondment is a temporary assignment. Yes, absolutely brilliant as an Education Secretary and as a they should get the experience of both places—the parliamentarian in both Houses. I saw her when I was at private sector and the civil service—but not at the same university. She really was, as the magazine headline time. This is an abuse of power. The Government are said, “Sweet Williams”. She was wonderful and would only making appointments when it is “one of us”—one have made a great future Prime Minister, as her father of them—just as they are doing with the board of once suggested. She screen-tested for the “National Channel 4. Velvet” film, and I want to say something positive at the It matters because this is about public money, and end: Rachael Blackmore should be congratulated on public money cannot be found for NHS workers and being the first woman to win the Grand National. their agreed 2.1%, but it can be found for Greensill. It Finally, we cannot process this year, but I hope the matters because council tax payers have to stump up whole House will join me in wishing all the Sikh community £100 now, yet Greensill is bailed out. It matters because, a happy Vaisakhi. as the shadow Chancellor said, Greensill met Treasury officials 10 times, whereas those excluded—entrepreneurs, Mr Rees-Mogg: I join the right hon. Lady in wishing small businesses, the self-employed—have got nothing the Sikh community a happy Vaisakhi. I also join her in out of these schemes and met Treasury officials once. It commemorating so many people who have died. This is matters because this is public money and it should be a particularly sad business questions, because there are used in the public interest. It is like having Lex Luthor so many people of the greatest distinction to commemorate. in the heart of Government, but I want to tell the The House paid its tribute to the Duke of Edinburgh, Government that there is no kryptonite on the Opposition the longest serving consort and the longest serving Benches, and we will fight for truth, justice and the member of the Privy Council in the Privy Council’s British way of fairness. history. The tributes were extremely touching and I know that the Leader of the House talks about represented the heartfelt sorrow of the nation at the transparency and accountability all the time, and I passing of someone who supported our constitution know he tries very hard to do that. He has seen the way and our way of life. 497 Business of the House15 APRIL 2021 Business of the House 498
We are all saddened by the death of a Member, Dame The right hon. Lady is right to say that public money Cheryl Gillan, who was just such a lovely person. She should be used wisely and properly. In that context, she came to some of the meetings held in the run-up to the is not right to say that Greensill was bailed out, because various Brexit debates. She was always advising goodwill, it was not. That is the whole point: the lobbying was kindliness and respect for the views of others with steely done, but the lobbying did not succeed. I think that is principles underlying that. That degree of kindliness as something that should reassure us about the propriety well as sense of purpose is something that we respect in of the way this Government are run. Who someone Members of Parliament, but also have great affection knows and how they are connected does not mean that for, and I think that is important, too. they get what they want. That, ultimately, is the test of whether a Government are operating properly, and this We also mourn Peter Ainsworth, who was one of the Government are operating properly. first people to come and campaign for me when I was selected as the candidate for North East Somerset. He Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con) [V]: There are still was a committed supporter of the party. The right hon. pockets of my Congleton constituency, in both the Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) also mentioned rural areas and the towns, where constituents struggle Ian Gibson, a distinguished former Member, and James to get access to fibre broadband, or indeed access to Winston. There is also Robert Howarth and Paul Marland, broadband or the internet at all. The pandemic has, of who was a long-serving Member of Parliament. He was course, highlighted how crucial this is, not least for very much thought of as being a dutiful Member, who those in education or business, so may I press the served his country in the traditional way that people Leader of the House to clarify what progress is being like me perhaps have the greatest admiration for. Of made towards fulfilling our manifesto commitment to course there is also Baroness Williams of Crosby, and I ensure that everyone can have access to full-fibre broadband? hope I will have an opportunity to say a little more about her later on in proceedings. On a happier note, I Mr Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for congratulate Rachael Blackmore on winning the Grand that question because I, like her, represent a rural National, but it is mainly a sad day, and that is one bit constituency, and this is so important for our constituents. of solace and happiness. I am glad to report that over 96% of all premises in the To come to the right hon. Lady’s detailed questions, United Kingdom can access superfast broadband, thanks she raises some very important points. The report of the to the success of the Government’s superfast broadband Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities is very programme, meaning that the UK has one of the highest important and makes an important contribution to the levels of rural superfast connectivity in Europe. debate. It has made 24 recommendations, which the However, the Government are aware that we need to Government are considering. I think it is right that we upgrade more of the network to gigabit-capable speeds look at the progress made in this country and recognise as soon as possible, hence the expenditure of £5 billion how different the experience in this country is from the of taxpayers’ money to support the roll-out of gigabit United States, rather than assuming that everything broadband in the hardest to reach, predominantly rural, here is the same as the many problems they have in areas of the country through our new UK gigabit other countries. We should recognise success as well as programme. Progress is being made in connecting rural understanding that we always have further to go. The premises to gigabit speeds through our existing superfast fundamental recognition that there is equality under broadband, but this is a big commitment of Her Majesty’s the law for everybody in this country is something that Government and one that I hope will help both my hon. we can welcome and ought to be positive about. I am Friend’s constituents and my own. sure that this matter will be discussed in this House on Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP): May I associate many occasions and raised in many different ways, myself with the comments of the Leader of the House because it is a subject of fundamental importance about and the shadow Leader of the House, and send my the type of country we are. condolences and those of the SNP to the royal family, The right hon. Lady raises serious questions about at this difficult time for all of them, on the passing of Greensill Capital and the relationships between it and the Prince Philip? I also pay tribute to Dame Cheryl Government. It is right that the review is taking place Gillan, Peter Ainsworth, Ian Gibson, Robert Howarth, under Nigel Boardman to understand primarily, as a Paul Marland, James Winston and Baroness Williams. starting point, the use of supply chain finance. Until we It has clearly been a very sad time for a lot of families, understand where it started—why the Government were as it is for so many around the country through these using supply chain finance, which prima facie is something challenging times. that we would not think a Government would do—we Turning to other matters, I have raised previously cannot understand what has happened subsequently, so issues around transparency, and we have seen again this it is the right review to be taking place. week, with the investigation now under way into lobbying, the actions of David Cameron and the circumstances Mr Boardman is highly respected. He is a non-executive surrounding the appointment of Lex Greensill as an director of BEIS. He has stood aside from that during adviser, that there are clearly further challenges that still the period of this inquiry, but he is a very distinguished need to be addressed. Will the Leader of the House lawyer and I think that he will bring considerable expertise commit to doing everything in his power to see that to the report. It is right that this matter is looked at everything possible is done to ensure that any reviews fairly and properly, and it will also be looked at by a undertaken go far enough, that any questions about the number of House of Commons Committees, which will effectiveness of existing legislation are taken full account do so with the full power and authority of the House of of, and that we put in place any necessary measures to Commons and the ability to send for persons and ensure that such instances cannot and do not happen in papers. the future? 499 Business of the House15 APRIL 2021 Business of the House 500
[Owen Thompson] and that we operate within a system that is properly constitutional. It is not for one side or the other to I am personally slightly disappointed that we have arbitrarily change the devolution settlement. not yet seen a further return of private Members’ Bills, particularly my Ministerial Interests (Emergency Powers) Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): There has Bill, which I suggest would go some way to addressing been precious little good news relating to the covid some of these issues around transparency in the awarding pandemic, but one positive benefit has been the revival of contracts. In the short time that we have prior to the of community spirit, as residents have come together to end of the Session, will the Leader of the House give support each other in these difficult times. One such consideration to how some of those Bills might be excellent example can be found in William Street in taken account of? Kettering, which has been nominated by readers of the We are all very well aware of this Government’s lack Northamptonshire Evening Telegraph as one of the county’s of respect for our democracy in consistently refusing to best places to live. In William Street, which has 66 houses, acknowledge the sovereign will of the Scottish people a small block of flats, a converted shoe factory and a to choose their own future, but it took a new turn this church, neighbours have come together not just to clap week, with the Government challenging through the for carers but to organise socially distanced Sunday courts the unanimous decision of the Scottish Parliament singalongs, an Easter egg celebration, street cleans, a to pass the United Nations Convention on the Rights of wedding prom, a street carnival, and pumpkin and the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill and the European best-dressed window competitions. Will the Leader of Charter of Local Self-Government (Incorporation) the House join me in congratulating all the residents of (Scotland) Bill. Will the Leader of the House allocate William Street on their revival of the blitz spirit and in Government time to a debate on the democratic deficit hoping that their example will be an inspiration to that exists in these isles as a result of this Government’s others? determination to ignore all views but their own? Does Mr Rees-Mogg: William Street sounds a very happy he agree that there can be no doubt now that the only street to live on, with singalongs and pumpkin prizes, so way for the people of Scotland to get their own I absolutely congratulate William Street and the people Government, a Government that they vote for, is by living there, who I am sure will be pleased by the tribute exercising our democratic right to choose, starting by paid to them by my hon. Friend. He is right that voting SNP in both votes on 6 May? throughout such a difficult year for the country there Mr Rees-Mogg: First of all, on the Greensill reviews, have been many wonderful moments of kindness up obviously Committees of this House can make what and down the nation, which have done us proud. The inquiries they wish and set their own terms of reference. outpouring of support for our care workers has been However, I think it is a mistake to rush to judgment, highlighted often, but there has also been an explosion particularly in relation to David Cameron, who was a of volunteering and fundraising. We should be very very successful Prime Minister who succeeded in getting proud of how our nation has reacted in such difficult the nation’s finances back in order. Rushing to judgment times. is not a proper way for this House to operate. We need to have the reviews and consider them. That is what is Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab) [V]: I thank the Leader happening, both within Government and this House, of the House for the business statement and for announcing and that is the proper constitutional process. the Backbench business for next Thursday, 22 April. I also associate myself with the comments about Dame As regards private Member’s Bills, I do not think Cheryl Gillan, who among many other things was a there is sufficient time in this Session, but the hon. regular customer at the Backbench Business Committee Gentleman should be aware that in the new Session and an excellent chair of the all-party parliamentary there will be a new ballot, under the auspices of the group on autism. Chairman of Ways of Means, and you never know, he may be lucky and be able to bring forward his Bill on a Will the Leader of the House do whatever he can to Friday later in the year. Who knows what excitements help to expedite the re-establishment of the Backbench await us? Business Committee at the earliest possible opportunity following the Queen’s Speech, so that debates applied As regards the sovereign will of the Scottish people, for, agreed by and timetabled by Back-Bench Members that was expressed in 2014 in a referendum. Now would can be led in the Chamber in a timely way by Back-Bench not be the right time to consider this issue, when there is Members? the recovery from the pandemic to have. However, I am fascinated by the voting advice that the hon. Gentleman Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman, a distinguished gives. It does not seem to match the voting advice given Chairman of the Backbench Business Committee, makes by Mr Salmond, who seems to be having a most interesting a very important point. The Government always like to time in Scotland. I noticed from The Telegraph today see Committees set up in a timely fashion and will use that he could not even get the letters for his new party in their best offices, after the Queen’s Speech, to see what the right order. I wonder whether the same will afflict they can do to ensure that a Chairman, whoever that the SNP—one never knows what set of initials they will may be, is back in post as soon as is reasonably practicable. come up with next. What the people of the whole of the United Kingdom want is good government for the Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con): Although many whole of the United Kingdom and a balanced settlement think of Burnley just as the town centre, we also have a that people accept. number of picturesque green villages,including Worsthorne In relation to the court case that the hon. Gentleman and Hapton. Unfortunately,in 2018, the Labour-controlled referred to, it is really important that we live within the Burnley Borough Council adopted a local plan that boundaries that have been established and accepted, allocates significant parts of these villages, and elsewhere, 501 Business of the House15 APRIL 2021 Business of the House 502 to housing developments and more, often directly against so many people have stopped by to say hello. Will my the wishes of local residents. This is just one of the right hon. Friend offer them congratulations on their planning issues we face. Will the Leader of the House achievements, and next time he is popping by or passing find Government time for a debate on local plans and by, will he pop in? how we can find a way to make sure they command the support of local residents? Mr Rees-Mogg: My hon. Friend said that people were popping in to say hello. May I encourage them to Mr Rees-Mogg: My hon. Friend raises a point that is pop in and actually spend some money, because in a raised by many right hon. and hon. Members from one-stop shop that is really what you need? Like our across the House, and planning is always a contentious hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), local issue. The Government’s planning White Paper, who asked his question a moment ago, my hon. Friend published last summer, set out proposed reforms to the Member for Bolton West (Chris Green) offers a increase community involvement in the preparation of great tribute to the voluntary spirit of his constituency. local plans, including a simpler and digitalised plan-making I would be delighted to join him in congratulating Chris process, with more opportunity for local people to Hill, Rosie Bea, Beverly Hill and Anne Marie Broadley influence the location and standard of new developments of the One Stop shop in Daisy Hill. These voluntary in their area. This is essential to planning for the homes initiatives are how communities are made, how they the country needs, providing the clarity that communities come together and how they succeed, and, certainly, if I and developers deserve about where new homes should am in Bolton West, I shall stop in the One Stop shop. be built and ensuring that development is planned, rather than the result of speculative applications. Plans Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) [V]: Diolch, should be produced in a way that respects crucial local Mr Deputy Speaker. We all recognise that the pandemic assets, including open countryside and the green belt, has had a huge impact on young people, whose lives but I should always remind hon. Members that new have been particularly disrupted, yet antisocial behaviour houses must be built. As they are built, we want to is on the rise and residents across Pontypridd and ensure that they are beautiful. If they are beautiful, Taff-Ely are experiencing vandalism and disruption at local communities may be more inclined to accept them. an alarming rate. The simple truth is that the police and youth services do not have the resources to keep up. Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab) [V]: This Will the Leader of the House therefore please commit week, many loyal British Gas staff were sacked for to a debate in Government time to allow us to tackle refusing to accept a new contract that made them work antisocial behaviour at its root? longer hours for less pay, in the latest iteration of the growing national scourge of fire and rehire. Companies Mr Rees-Mogg: The key thing here is having police such as British Gas trade off our country’s name but do on the streets. It is remarkable how the presence of a not have our country’s interests at heart. The Government police officer can stop antisocial behaviour early on and have repeatedly stated that they consider these practices make people realise the problem caused by antisocial to be unacceptable, but those words will mean little to behaviour,which is sometimes just thoughtlessness, rather those ex-British Gas workers today. So will the Leader than criminality. It is important that there will be of the House please outline when the Government will 20,000 extra police officers, of which 6,620 have so far be bringing forward legislation to ban fire and rehire, been recruited, and that the police will have £15.8 billion once and for all? of taxpayers’ money to help them to tackle this scourge. The hon. Lady is absolutely right that it is one of the Mr Rees-Mogg: The Government do take this issue most disagreeable aspects. It is the counter to what we extremely seriously, and the Under-Secretary of State were saying about community spirit. Antisocial behaviour for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, my hon. causes disproportionate distress to people who are probably Friend the Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully) the most community-minded and it needs effective local has condemned the practice in the strongest terms on policing to deal with it. many occasions. The situation at the moment is that BEIS officials engaged ACAS in November 2020 to Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con) [V]: Global technology gather evidence on the prevalence and use of fire and firms such as Google are not being held to account. A rehire in workplaces. ACAS spoke to business and lack of regulation allows pension scammers to con employee representatives in confidence, and has now millions of pounds out of people, and tech firms such concluded its work and shared its findings with BEIS. as Google can also make millions of pounds from fake Officials are considering that evidence and the Government adverts that can ruin a business’s or an individual’s will communicate their next steps in due course, but it is reputation. It is time to hold these multibillion-pound right that a proper process is undertaken to see how companies to account, so will my right hon. Friend prevalent this practice is.Wewould reiterate to businesses—I agree to a debate in the House to tackle this very would say to my capitalist friends—that capitalism works important subject, which could help to protect people’s when capitalists behave well and treat their employees money, livelihoods and their reputations? well, and get the best motivation and success from their company and from those who work for them. Mr Rees-Mogg: Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend about the concerning growth and scale of online fraud. Chris Green (Bolton West) (Con): On Monday, I was Online fraud can have a severe effect on individuals and delighted to visit the newly opened one-stop shop in businesses and on society more broadly.The Government Daisy Hill. The volunteers Chris Hill, Rosie Bea and work with law enforcement, industry and consumer Beverly Hill, run the charity shop, and advice and groups to tackle online fraud. The Home Office, Her digital services for the local community, and Anne Majesty’sTreasury,the Department for Work and Pensions Marie Broadley, who helped set it up, was delighted that and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and 503 Business of the House15 APRIL 2021 Business of the House 504
[Mr Rees-Mogg] but it is very frustrating that they are forced to respond to so many fires usually caused by disposable barbecues. Sport are all working together to consider additional May we have a debate on preventing fires on our legislative and non-legislative solutions via a continuing moorland and on the future of the laws on disposable programme of work. I would say, though, that not all of barbecues? Can I urge the Government to do more to this is legislative. One thing that we should all always educate people on the countryside code, so that visitors remember and should say to our constituents is that if to the Peak District know how to properly protect and they ever see anything online that is too good to be true, respect our beautiful countryside? it is not true. That single piece of advice will save many of us from the illegal activities of scammers. Mr Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. Wildfires obviously pose a great risk to Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): our countryside.Natural England has published a refreshed May I say to the Leader of the House that I hope that countryside code to advise us all on visits to the countryside. Members of all parties might be allowed to pay some Everyone should enjoy parks and open spaces as we tribute to my late colleague and friend Baroness Williams come out of lockdown, and we should be encouraging of Crosby? She was somebody who blazed a trail for people to look after our natural environments and the women in politics in over five decades in public life in livelihoods of those who work there. The Government this country. She was blessed with a magic combination are launching a long-term countryside code campaign of both a fine political mind and genuine political to increase awareness of the code through 2021 and warmth, which allowed her to reach out to people beyond. I think that is the right approach: to encourage across the party divide and to people of no parties. I people to behave responsibly, to educate and to tell realised this for myself in 1983, when I heard her people about what is expected of them in the countryside. address an outdoor rally at a by-election in Darlington. I am afraid to say I am always more cautious about There was a man behind me saying, “Hear, hear!”, and banning things. there was a lot of agreement coming from him. I turned around to see who this new convert to liberalism was, Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) and it was, in fact, none other than Screaming Lord (SNP): Nearly a year ago, I warned the Government Sutch. I told Shirley that story some two decades later that if they did not act on fire and rehire when it reared and it says a lot about her that she instinctively just its ugly head with British Airways, many others would loved the joke at her own expense. She will be enormously follow. Just yesterday, hundreds of British Gas engineers missed by people in all parties, but especially among the were sacked without redundancy pay because they refused family of Liberal Democrats. to sign an inferior contract. My Fire and Rehire Bill (Employment (Dismissal and Re-employment) Bill is Mr Rees-Mogg: I am very grateful to the right hon. essentially now dead, but we are aware that the Government Gentleman for that tribute and I am grateful that he received the ACAS report two months ago. I wrote told me in advance that he would make it, because to the Secretary of State urging him to publish the Shirley Williams was actually a great friend of my report and make a statement. Had they done so and father. They knew each other from their Oxford days given assurances that action would be taken in the and Shirley got my father his first job. She wrote in an Employment Bill, perhaps that would have forced the Oxford magazine that my father read the Financial hand of British Gas. Will the Leader of the House give Times every day at breakfast and the then editor of the his colleague in the Cabinet a bigger nudge and get him Financial Times offered him a job, so my family has to take action please? always been enormously grateful to Shirley for setting my father off in his journalistic career. Mr Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman She was also, as the right hon. Gentleman says, one for raising that point, because I think it is in the of the most charming people to meet: always kindly interests of public companies to behave well to their and thoughtful, and good to her friends. As somebody employees. Bear in mind that their employees are also who was very much in favour of state education, she their customers for a big company like British Gas. The actually came to speak for me for a society I ran at name of British Gas has now been traduced in this Eton, which I think is symbolic of how kindly she was. House on a number of occasions. People who pay When I last met her, she said to me that she was very attention to our proceedings may feel that they dislike glad she was my brother’s godmother, not mine, because the way British Gas is behaving and want to get their had she been mine she might have had to disagree with gas supplied by another firm. There are powers in me a little bit in public. Again, I thought that showed markets as well as in government, but I can reassure the such kindliness and charm. hon. Gentleman that the Government do take this Above and beyond that, she was also a stunningly really seriously.What my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary effective politician, a great Member of both the Labour of State has said is what the Government mean and the party and the Liberal Democrats, and somebody this report is quite rightly being carefully considered. nation can be proud of for having produced a politician of such capability, such effectiveness, but also such Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North East) (Con) kindliness. [V]: Will the Leader of the House join me in sending Sikhs in Wolverhampton best wishes for Vaisakhi and Robert Largan (High Peak) (Con) [V]: Last night, in thanking them for their efforts during the pandemic? there was yet another fire on the moors of the High Sikhs’ ongoing commitment to serve other people is Peak, on Tintwistle Low Moor. I pay tribute to Derbyshire always admirable, but during the pandemic it has been Fire and Rescue Service, the Peak District Moorland especially notable. We owe them a debt of thanks. Will Group and others for their efforts in fighting these fires, he also welcome news that in September Wednesfield in 505 Business of the House15 APRIL 2021 Business of the House 506 my constituency will see the unveiling of a statue to County Council, Lawyers in Local Government and the honour the extraordinary bravery of 21 Sikh soldiers at Association of Democratic Services Officers as the case Saragarhi in 1897? is heard. Virtual proceedings have helped councils, but they Mr Rees-Mogg: Absolutely. I join my hon. Friend in are allowed to meet, because it is a legitimate business wishing a happy Vaisakhi to the Sikh community. I join purpose. They have to take covid-secure measures, as her in paying tribute to their generosity and the principle we are taking in this House to ensure that this House of service that we have seen from NHS workers and operates. The Government are not unsympathetic to doctors, police officers, armed forces personnel and all considering how these things operate in future, but the key workers. legislation that was temporarily introduced expires on 7 May. My hon. Friend will know that we have a I also join my hon. Friend in celebrating the news Queen’s Speech coming, and we have a number of Bills that the memorial will be unveiled in Wednesfield in going back and forth between the Lords and the Commons, September. The Sikhs provided 20% of the British so the ability to legislate between now and then is Indian Army in the first world war and were the most extremely limited. decorated community in the British empire, winning more Victoria Crosses per capita than any other. When Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab) [V]: Last I was the Conservative candidate in The Wrekin, the week, one of my constituents visited a local park with family of the first Sikh to win the Victoria Cross lived her friend and their two young babies. They both began there, and I must confess that I was very proud to meet breastfeeding and before long saw a stranger taking them and to have an association with them, now 20 years photos of them with a telephoto lens. They confronted ago. We should be very grateful for the enormous him, and the man refused to delete the photos, even contribution made to the United Kingdom by members when asked to do so by the park warden. They reported of the Sikh community. it to the police, who said there was nothing they could do, because it was a public place and taking photos is Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): Last month’s not illegal. It may not be illegal, but it is, as my constituent update on compensation for victims of the contaminated said, “disturbing and intrusive” and surely unacceptable. blood scandal was welcome, but there is still no provision Could we have a statement from an appropriate Minister or scheme for bereaved parents such as the Smiths from on how we might tackle a problem that left my constituent Newport, who tragically lost their son Colin, aged just feeling seven, after he was infected with blood from Arkansas “violated and discouraged from breastfeeding outside the house”? prison. Can we have an opportunity to discuss compensation schemes and to impress on Cabinet Office Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman raises a difficult Ministers the need to finally include and, crucially, issue of privacy in public spaces. It is not easy to acknowledge bereaved parents? legislate for every possible circumstance. People in public are obviously in public and it is hard to prevent from people seeing things that take place in public, but you Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Lady raises a point of huge would expect people, out of courtesy, not to photograph importance. This is something that the Government people doing things that are of their nature private in have an inquiry on, and that inquiry is continuing. The public. inquiry has not lost pace because of the pandemic; it has been holding remote hearings and will come to a Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): I lead the Anglesey conclusion. I understand that my right hon. Friend the freeport bidding consortium, which includes Bangor Paymaster General will be having meetings with the University, Stena and my island council. Our bid is the all-party parliamentary group on haemophilia and only bid in north Wales and the only bid to include a contaminated blood, but also with the right hon. Member university. Does the Leader of the House share my for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson), concern that the Welsh Labour Government dragging to update people on what is happening and to give their heels over releasing the Welsh freeport bidding reassurance that this matter is taken deeply seriously. It prospectus is delaying much-needed potential investment was a terrible failing with appalling consequences for into my constituency and the whole of north Wales? individuals and their families. Mr Rees-Mogg: The problem with socialists is that James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con): Given the decision they never want to level up; they always want to level by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local down. They therefore always try to postpone economic Government that local councils should cease meeting opportunity because they wallow in economic failure. virtually from 7 May, will my right hon. Friend confirm The freeport programme will be of great benefit to the whether there is a similar plan for this place? If that is whole of the United Kingdom, and it is exciting to see not the case, perhaps we could re-extend that courtesy so many compelling bids being submitted by local business to the shires, noting that attendance at local council groups from across the whole of the United Kingdom. meetings has never been this good. My right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Wales and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury have been Mr Rees-Mogg: The House’sproceedings are determined emphatic in their support for establishing freeports in by Standing Orders, and the facilities for virtual meetings Wales. Her Majesty’s Government have discussed the were created by statute. This was not a decision by issue with Ministers in Wales and with the many Welsh MHCL; it is that the temporary statute expires on business groups that want take advantage of the 7 May. However, as I understand it, a High Court ruling opportunities that freeports bring, from tax benefits to is due before May on what capabilities there are, and the greater freedom to innovate and build exciting, prosperous Government will be supporting the action by Hertfordshire trading hubs throughout the whole country. The 507 Business of the House15 APRIL 2021 Business of the House 508
[Mr Rees-Mogg] The reopening of the economy is something we all welcome, and at each stage we must be careful, including Government do not want to deprive the people of with its evaluation. However, to leap from this to mass Wales of this opportunity, and we hope that the foot- gatherings at sporting event trials is deeply disturbing dragging socialists will pull their feet out of the mud given the terms that are being proposed, not least at and get on with it. York racecourse. We have new variants of covid-19 creeping into our community. Will the Leader of the Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): The House take my concerns, of which I will write to him, to Australian Government have paid redress to my constituent, Cabinet colleagues, and will he arrange for an opportunity Christine Gow, for the institutional childhood sexual for us to debate this in the House and for all MPs abuse crimes that she suffered, and she is going to use impacted by these decisions to meet the Secretary of the money to pay for psychological counselling. In State and his officials to discuss our concerns? Australia, that redress is disregarded for benefit assessments, but here the Department for Work and Pensions states that she has to deposit the money in a trust fund, which Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Lady raises concerns that involves lawyers and costs of up to £1,000. Can the many Members have. There was an opportunity to Leader of the House help me to get the DWP to apply debate them immediately before the recess, with the an exemption akin to what it does for money awarded continuation of the Coronavirus Act 2020. There were under the British child migrant scheme? Health questions earlier this week, and my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary has been assiduous in Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman, as so often, attending the House to give oral updates on the current raises important constituency issues that will have a situation. Obviously the Government want to see unlocking wider effect for other people across the United Kingdom. take place, and the road map has been set out, but if I will certainly take this up with the DWP. His request people have questions, they are entitled to raise them, sounds to be an eminently reasonable one. This is a and if they do not get answers directly, I will do whatever compensation payment from a Government that would I can to facilitate answers. be treated differently if it were from Her Majesty’s Government in the UK rather than Her Majesty’s Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con) [V]: I join Government in Australia. others in offering my deepest sympathy to members of Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and West Somerset) the royal family on their great loss and to the family and (Con) [V]: My right hon. Friend and I share an enormous friends of Members past and present who have died respect and affection for the great King Alfred, who recently. defeated the Vikings against all the odds. Does he agree Following the reopening of some businesses earlier that victory would never have been possible without a this week, will my right hon. Friend find time for a good deal of local support, and that the only way to debate on support for the personal care sector? I have provide local support is through a proper referendum in been contacted by a number of local establishments which the votes are counted, and not through a cheapskate that are still being impacted by the pandemic and have survey to which anyone anywhere in the world can not been offered sector-specific financial support, such contribute? Somerset local government’s future should as value added tax reductions. I hope that the personal never be decided by the toss of a coin in a Minister’s care industry will be supported in its reopening. office or, dare I say, by a dodgy consultation. What is the hurry? The people need to be heard first, and woe Mr Rees-Mogg: My hon. Friend is right to raise the betide anyone who takes Somerset for granted and needs of the personal care sector, which is a very ignores its people’s verdict or their voice. Could we significant employer and provides great joy to many please have an urgent debate on this? customers. I have never been more relieved to have a haircut than I was on Tuesday night, when finally the Mr Rees-Mogg: My hon. Friend is, of course, right to barber’s clippers went snip, snip, snip and a degree of say that King Alfred pulled together the ealdormen of respectability was restored. This week, shops, hairdressers, Somerset, Hampshire and Wiltshire to defeat Guthrum. nail salons—I am a less regular visitor to nail salons, I It was a coming together and it was done from the must confess—outdoor attractions and pubs and Somerset levels, where he famously but probably restaurants outdoors can open once again, which is apocryphally burned cakes as he was considering how good news for those operating in those sectors. he would deal with the problem. I know that the matter my hon. Friend raises is being carefully considered by At the Budget, the Chancellor announced new restart my right hon Friend the Secretary of State for Housing, grants worth up to £18,000, which will help more than Communities and Local Government, who has excellent 680,000 eligible businesses, including those in the personal judgment and believes in our great county, which is one care sector, to get going again. On top of the grants that of the oldest counties in the country, with an unbroken closed businesses have received since January, businesses historic tradition. What would concern me personally could receive up to £36,000 in grants this year. To about any referendum is that it would deal with only a support those that are not eligible for these grants, part of the county and not with the whole of the taxpayers are giving councils in England an additional county, and it would therefore not necessarily be the £425 million of discretionary business grant funding, coming together that my hon. Friend is talking about. on top of the £1.6 billion they have already received. Nobody could say that this amount of money is a snip. Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: I want to acknowledge the incredible, inspirational Ian Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I cannot tell Gibson. He was such a mentor to me, from my days in you how relieved I was to get to the hairdresser’s on Norwich to this day. He will be missed. Monday morning. 509 Business of the House15 APRIL 2021 Business of the House 510
Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab) [V]: Research from Environment Bill will also place a statutory requirement Unison has found that more than half of NHS workers on water companies to produce drainage and sewerage are considering leaving their position in the next year, management plans to help deliver more of the actions with one in 10 considering it very seriously. Additionally, needed to address the risks that sewage assets may pose Unison North West has raised the fact that many healthcare to the environment. Action is being taken, but my hon. assistants are expected to carry out clinical duties that Friend is right to stand up for farmers and stop sewage. are above and beyond their pay grade, with many employed at band 2 while being trained to do band 3 work, which Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): equates to them missing out on almost £2,000 per year. My constituent Tony McDowall travelled to Istanbul in That is happening at Stepping Hill Hospital in Stockport September last year. In the early hours of the next borough, as well as right across Greater Manchester, morning, he called his mum in a state of some distress, and it will almost certainly be happening across the telling her that he had been awoken from his sleep by country.Will the Leader of the House allocate Government two men attempting to break into his hotel room. A few time to debate healthcare assistants’pay rate and banding, hours later, Mrs McDowall was contacted by local and does he agree that this pay injustice needs to be police at her home in Arran to be told that her son was rectified urgently? dead. Mrs McDowall was the last person to speak to her Mr Rees-Mogg: I think I would rather give the good son, and despite being advised by the British consulate news on NHS staffing, because since last year, there are that her son’s death is being investigated by the Turkish almost 50,500 more people working in the NHS, of authorities, no one on the investigation team has made whom 6,600 are doctors and almost 10,900 are nurses. contact with her or updated her on the status of progress Recruitment in the NHS is very important, and we will of the investigation into her son’s death. I urge the employ 50,000 more nurses and 6,000 more doctors in Leader of the House to please use his good offices to general practice by the end of this Parliament. That is ensure that a representative from the UK Foreign Office the target for the Government to deliver, while ensuring contacts Mrs McDowall to assist her in finding out that people want to work in the NHS, but the figures for what happened to her 28-year-old son. the last year are very encouraging. Mr Rees-Mogg: This is a very sad case, and one’s Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con): May I sympathies go to Mrs McDowall, who must feel very add my own tribute to Dame Cheryl Gillan? I knew her bereft, both at the death of her son and at the lack of for 20 years and adored her, and she will be sadly missed. information. I assure the hon. Lady that I will take this The Leader of the House knows that I have raised the up with the Foreign Office immediately after this questions health of the River Wye and River Usk, which run session has finished. through my constituency, a number of times. This week, “Panorama”exposed water companies dumping untreated Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): The balloons were inflated sewage into rivers, and specifically into the River Usk. and the banners unfurled in anticipation and excitement However, the Welsh Labour Government, supported by that we would be able to see the Chancellor walking the Liberal Democrats, insist that farmers are to blame down Mold high street in his lunch hour to get a for the problem and have voted through a misguided sausage roll from Hulsons bakery for his lunch. But nitrate vulnerable zone across the whole of Wales. That there must have been some mistake—they have sent the is grossly unfair on farmers in Brecon and Radnorshire, Treasury to north-east England instead of north-east and the Minister responsible should withdrawthe proposals Wales. There must have been some typographical error until the allegations can be explored. Will the Leader of along the way. Undeterred, the people of Delyn will not the House grant time for a debate in this House on river be denied. The local Jobcentre Plus team would be pollution so that we can get to the bottom of this delighted to have a local Department for Work and scandal and ensure that farmers in Brecon and Radnorshire Pensions office in north Wales, and I am sure the are not unfairly blamed for a problem they did not farmers of Delyn would be equally excited to be able to cause? beat on the door of a local Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs outpost at their earliest convenience. Mr Rees-Mogg: My hon. Friend, along with our hon. What does my right hon. Friend advise is the best Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie), course of action to ensure that north-east Wales is not points out the dangers of incompetent socialist forgotten in this redistribution of Departments? Governments getting the wrong end of every stick that comes within their sight. I understand that the Under- Mr Rees-Mogg: The difficulty is that I think it would Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural be hard to satisfy all 650 Members of Parliament. The Affairs, our hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Rebecca Pow), has had a meeting with my hon. Friend (Mr Carmichael) is no longer in the Chamber, but the the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Fay Jones) to Shetlands islands outpost of HM Treasury may pose discuss river pollution. The Government take this logistical difficulties. responsibility very seriously. It is a really important priority for the Government Water companies have a legal duty to avoid pollution to ensure that Ministries move out of London so that and must act quickly to reduce any damage that happens we move away from this entirely London-centric approach as a result of their activities. The regulations are clear to government. Weneed more variety in where businesses, and are enforced robustly. Over the past six years, the Departments and Government business operations are Environment Agency has brought 48 prosecutions against placed to ensure that we reflect views across the whole water companies, securing fines of £35 million. The of the country. I fear, however, that if people were to 511 Business of the House15 APRIL 2021 Business of the House 512
[Mr Rees-Mogg] general election campaign with a clear message of “Get Brexit Done”, and it won the election and was able to move to the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member move forward with Brexit. If people go out and rightly for Delyn (Rob Roberts), they would be so affected by cast both votes for the SNP on 6 May, why will his the beauty of the area that they might find it difficult to colleagues not accept that those people should get the concentrate on their work. independence referendum that the SNP is promising? Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): May we have a debate on the dangers to the taxpayer of incompetent Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman knows that capitalist government? Cardiff University’s Wales there was a referendum in 2014, which had a clear Governance Centre has pointed out that the Test and result. The leading lights of the separatist movement in Trace system in England, which has been outsourced to Scotland—that is to say, Ms Sturgeon and Mr Salmond— private companies, cost twice as much as the system in both said that it was a generational issue. A generation Wales where local government has been used. has far from passed, and we are in the midst of a pandemic. We have a serious issue that we need to I had a very disturbing report from one of my recover from. constituents that he had received the test results of two children from England, despite the fact that he has lived The authority over a referendum is of course a reserved in Cardiff for 35 years. When I contacted the Department authority, and it is right that devolution should be of Health and Social Care, they told me that it was allowed to work and to flourish. The results of elections probably because the wrong mobile phone and email to the Scottish Parliament are of fundamental importance, details had been entered, and that no process was in of course, but what the hon. Gentleman is saying is place to amend customer details. The Government have essentially a distraction from the business of dealing allocated £37 billion to cover the cost of the Test and with the pandemic. It is irresponsible of the SNP to be Trace system over the next two years, and it cannot even saying it, rather than concentrating on getting over the amend incorrectly entered customer details! pandemic and its consequences, from which this country The Leader of the House talked about the unacceptable is suffering. face of capitalism earlier, about British Gas’s behaviour, but what about the incompetent face of capitalism? Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield) (Con): With your indulgence, Mr Deputy Speaker, I would like to take a Mr Rees-Mogg: I note that of the tests carried out in moment to pay tribute to Dame Cheryl Gillan and Wales, 64% have been provided by Her Majesty’s Baroness Shirley Williams. Both served with distinction Government. Had we left it to the Welsh Government for many years in this House, improving the lives of and the public sector in Wales, only 36% of tests would their constituents and providing thoughtful insight into have been carried out. I think that shows the effectiveness numerous debates. Both were characterised by kindness of Her Majesty’s Government—the United Kingdom and firmly rooted principles. Government—at getting things done. What the hon. Gentleman is proposing is that things do not get done. Provisional figures given to me by Revolut show that, I, for one, am in favour of action, not of dither and delay. in comparison with a pre-lockdown Monday, spending on Monday 12 April in Wakefield was at 98.5%. On the David Johnston (Wantage) (Con): Despite the hard high street, the figure was at 136.4%, but for pubs, work of postmen and women, my constituents have had spending was watered down—although not the drink—and months of problems with Royal Mail deliveries, their remains at only 43.9% of pre-pandemic levels. Inevitably, letters, cards, magazines and appointments arriving late this has had an impact on a number of businesses in my or not at all. Will my right hon. Friend find time for a seat, such as Ossett Brewery and Tigertops Brewery. debate about how Royal Mail should give the service Can my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House find that our constituents deserve and are paying for? Government time for a debate on support for businesses in this sector as we continue with the road map out of Mr Rees-Mogg: Yes. I am grateful to my hon. Friend lockdown? for raising this issue, which has been raised with me before. I passed on the comments to the Royal Mail and had a full response from the Royal Mail sent to the Mr Rees-Mogg: I am grateful, as always, to my hon. Member who raised the issue previously. Friend. I am pleased to hear the good news from Wakefield on the return to a degree of normality, but I It is worth pointing out that the Government are not am sorry to hear that the pubs are only at 43.9% of involved in the day-to-day operations of the company pre-pandemic levels—my hon. Friend clearly has a lot and do not play a role in handling or resolving complaints of drinking to do to help get Wakefield back up to regarding Royal Mail. However, the Royal Mail has average. contingency plans to mitigate disruption to postal services, which are overseen by Ofcom. Ofcom has recognised There has been a good deal of Government support— that the covid-19 pandemic is an emergency under its taxpayer support: £5 billion for the new restart grants, regulatory framework. It continues to monitor Royal which include pubs, and the business rates holiday, Mail’s performance carefully. I will pass on my hon. which includes pubs, and there is a total cost of cash Friend’s comments, in the hope that I receive as good a grants to the taxpayer of £25 billion. Ultimately, though, reply on his behalf as I received last time. this is up to all of us. If we want to save our pubs, we have to go into them. That does not mean that we have David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP): May we have a to drink yards of ale, though some may choose to, but statement from the Leader of the House on the issue of we want to go in and have something to eat—I believe inconsistency and its impact on the part of the Conservative scotch eggs are popular in certain quarters—and to buy party? In December 2019, his party had entered the our children a Coca-cola or a lemonade. 513 Business of the House 15 APRIL 2021 514
We need to support our own pub industry if it is to Point of Order survive, and we should lead by example. Perhaps, when times allow, we should have political functions in pub 12.22 pm rooms—[Interruption.] The shadow Leader of the House wants to go on a pub crawl. Mr Deputy Speaker, I can Jim Shannon: On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. think of no finer companion for her than you—you Will you outline House procedure that will enable me could take her round the finest pubs of both your and others in this House to mark the tremendous constituencies and get Britain’s pubs back into liquidity. victory of Northern Ireland women’s football team over the favourites Ukraine in qualifying for the women’s Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I have been world championship Euro 2022? The team made history accused of many things over the past 29 years as a in what was classified as the ultimate victory for the Member of Parliament, but not doing my bit to help the underdog. This House wishes the Northern Ireland women’s pub has not been one of them. I look forward to joining football team continuing success for the future. the right hon. Lady on visits to whatever hostelries she might wish to go to. Mr Deputy Speaker: I wanted to hear the words I thank the Leader of the House for making his “point of order” because over 29 years I have heard statement and responding to 30 questions in over one points of order stretched to the limit in this place—but hour. none more so or in a better fashion than the one I have just heard. I just want to say that the hon. Gentleman has put it on the record. We are all incredibly proud of Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP) rose— what the Northern Ireland women’s football team has achieved and we wish them well for the future. Please Mr Deputy Speaker: Go on. I want to hear the words, pass on our best wishes. We will now suspend for three “point of order”. minutes.
12.23 pm Sitting suspended.
DOMESTIC ABUSE BILL (PROGRAMME) (NO. 2) Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)), That the following provisions shall apply to the Domestic Abuse Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Order of 28 April 2020 (Domestic Abuse Bill (Programme)): Consideration of Lords Amendments (1) Proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption. Subsequent stages (2) Any further Message from the Lords may be considered forthwith without any Question being put. (3) The proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour after their commencement.—(James Morris.) Question agreed to. 515 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 516
Domestic Abuse Bill was a huge advocate for the vulnerable, including those who live with autism. She was a wonderful, wonderful Consideration of Lords amendments friend and colleague to us all, and she will be very, very Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I must draw sorely missed. the House’s attention to the fact that financial privilege is engaged by Lords amendments 41 and 43. If the 12.30 pm Lords amendments that engage financial privilege are We support the vast majority of the 86 amendments agreed to, I will cause the customary entry waiving that the Lords have sent to us. Indeed, we have worked Commons financial privilege to be entered into the with peers in many instances to bring those amendments Journal. forward. There are 12 sets with which we do not agree and I will deal with those in due course. But I would like Clause 2 to take a moment to reflect on the events of recent weeks and the concerns, the experiences and indeed the fears expressed by women and girls across the country. DEFINITION OF “PERSONALLY CONNECTED” This Bill will help millions of women and girls who 12.28 pm are living with abuse, whose emotions are manipulated by their abusers for their own disgusting gratification The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the and control, and who want happier, healthier lives free Home Department (Victoria Atkins): I beg to move, from abuse. However, thanks to amendments made in That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 1. this place and the other place, the Bill will reach even Mr Deputy Speaker: With this it will be convenient to more women than that. On Report, I was pleased that discuss the following: Lords amendment 2, and Government we were able to respond to the calls by the right hon. motion to disagree. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Lords amendment 3, and Government motion to Forest (Mark Garnier) and many other hon. Members disagree. to clarify the law surrounding the so-called rough sex Lords amendments 4 to 8. defence. Hon. Members also argued, as part of that Lords amendment 9, and Government motion to debate,for a bespoke new offence of non-fatal strangulation disagree. to strengthen the criminal justice response to that form Lords amendments 10 to 32. of physical abuse. We listened carefully to the debate on Lords amendment 33, and Government motion to the matter, including the compelling evidence presented disagree. to me by Dr Cath White, taking into account the concerns that cases of non-fatal strangulation can often Lords amendments 34 to 36. be difficult to prosecute. That is why we concluded that Lords amendment 37, and Government motion to a bespoke offence was necessary and that that should disagree. apply both to domestic abuse cases and to other cases Lords amendment 38, and Government motion to where strangulation or suffocation were a factor. On disagree. conviction of the new offence, as now provided for in Lords amendment 39. Lords amendment 36, the defendant could receive a Lords amendment 40, and Government motion to harsher sentence as the harm required to qualify for the disagree. maximum five-year penalty has been reduced. We are drawing firm lines in the Bill as to what can and cannot Lords amendment 41, and Government motion to constitute lawful violent sexual behaviour. disagree. But harmful and abusive behaviour sadly extends Lords amendment 42, and Government motion to beyond that. Lords amendment 35 seeks to extend the disagree, and Government amendments (a) to (c) in revenge porn offence to include threats to disclose such lieu. images. One in seven young women have been subjected Lords amendment 43, and Government motion to to threats to use revenge porn. I thank colleagues across disagree. the House who have worked so hard on this topic, Lords amendments 44 to 82. including the Chair of the Women and Equalities Lords amendment 83, and Government motion to Committee—my right hon. Friend the Member for disagree. Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes)—my Lords amendments 84 to 86. hon. Friends the Members for Bishop Auckland (Dehenna Davison) and for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards), and of Victoria Atkins: Before I start my speech, may I beg course Baroness Morgan of Cotes in the other place. I your indulgence, Mr Deputy Speaker, and place on the would also like to thank a young woman I met through record not only my condolences to Her Majesty the my hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe—Natasha Queen but my and my constituents’ heartfelt thanks to Saunders, who described to me her experiences of the His Royal Highness Prince Philip? He was the use of threats of revenge porn. She has found the personification of public service, dedicating his life to wherewithal to use those experiences to campaign on Her Majesty and to serving our country for more than this matter very strongly and effectively. 70 years, and he did so with great style and often a Although the Law Commission is currently reviewing twinkle in his eye. the law around intimate image abuse, we recognise the May I also pay tribute to my friend, the right hon. case for immediate action to better protect victims from Dame Cheryl Gillan, who passed away very recently? that form of abuse and Lords amendment 35 does just She would have loved to take part in today’s debate. She that. 517 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 518
Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): I thank my place a duty on the domestic abuse commissioner to hon. Friend for all that she has done with regard to publish a report, under her new powers in the Bill, on recognising the problems around threats to publish the provision of and need for community-based services. intimate images. Will she join me in saying that we need Lords amendments 8 and 10 to 16 will place a duty on to make sure that the law is all-encompassing in this tier 1 local authorities, with the support of their domestic area? It is important to improve the law on revenge abuse local partnership boards, to monitor and report pornography as it stands now, introduced by this on the impact of the safe accommodation duty on the Government, but it is even more important that we have provision of community-based support in their area. a wholesale review of this area, such as that which is Taken together with the responses to our victims’ law part of the Law Commission’s review. consultation, those amendments will ensure that the Government have all the information they need to build Victoria Atkins: I agree completely with my right on the strong foundations of existing community-based hon. Friend. I thank her for the work she has done over services. many years to address this and other issues particularly Some of the most upsetting and torturous experiences affecting women and girls. We very much take that that victims can experience happen after a relationship point. We have worked on the amendment with Baroness has ended, in the family and civil courts. Lords Morgan to have an immediate impact, but in addition amendments 17 and 24 to 31 relate to special measures we look forward to receiving the Law Commission’s and the ban on cross-examination in person in civil report and recommendations later this year—it is looking proceedings. In short, those amendments more closely at the whole of the law on the use of intimate images align the position in the civil courts to that in the family and other types of malicious communications on the courts, so that victims of domestic abuse have the internet. If the law needs to be changed to reflect benefit of automatic eligibility for special measures to recommendations, we can address those in subsequent enable them to give their best evidence and to ensure legislation. These clauses apply to all relationships and that they are protected from being cross-examined in all encounters of a sexual nature, from a Tinder hook-up person by their abuser. Our justice system should not be to a marriage of many decades. Those protections will used as another form of abuse. This Bill will help to be enshrined in this Bill. protect victims and secure justice. I turn to another amendment that I know has been In the case of the family courts, perpetrators can welcomed warmly by survivors and campaigners: the continue abuse through repeated unmeritorious proceedings. extension of the coercive and controlling behaviour Lords amendment 33 amends the Children Act 1989 to offence to include post-separation abuse. We listened prevent such vexatious claims. The amendment makes it very carefully to debates in this place, as well as to clear that a court maymake a barring order in circumstances charities such as Surviving Economic Abuse and, of where it is satisfied that a further application made by course, to survivors themselves. We reviewed the offence the named person would put the child or another, for to see how it is working after five years of being in force example the parent victim, at risk of harm. For all the and we published that review in March. victims and survivors I have met, and whose stories we Weacknowledge that coercive and controlling behaviour have heard in the Chamber: these measures are to help continues and indeed may escalate following separation, you all to secure justice, as you deserve. so amendment 34 will extend the offence to cover Lords amendment 39 would ensure that a health post-separation abuse between former intimate partners professional working in a general practice that holds an and interfamilial abuse, regardless of whether the family NHS contract cannot charge for evidence to show that members are living together or not. The amendment a patient has been the victim of domestic abuse for the will send a strong message to perpetrators that controlling purpose of obtaining legal aid. We recognise that it is or coercive behaviours, irrespective of the living already the case that most GPs do not charge for such arrangements, are forms of domestic abuse and that the evidence, but the amendment will ensure that no victim criminal law is there to protect victims. faces that barrier to obtaining legal aid. The Bill also revolutionises the help that is available The Bill also reaches beyond these shores. Lords to victims who need to flee relationships to refuge or amendments 70 to 82 amend the extraterritorial jurisdiction other safe accommodation. It is revolutionary in that it provisions in the Bill to remove the dual criminality helps to ensure that they are helped to recover from requirement for relevant sexual offences, including rape, their experiences. Part 4 introduces a duty on tier 1 local committed outside the UK by UK nationals. That will authorities to provide specialist services to such victims enable UK nationals who commit marital rape in countries and we have announced £125 million of funding to where such behaviour is not criminal to be prosecuted support that provision in the Bill. in UK courts. This is also a significant step forward There is a cross-party desire to see those measures towards ratifying the Istanbul convention, as it addresses matched by equivalent provision in respect of community- one of the three outstanding matters set out in the based support. This Government are alive to such calls. statement to the House in October last year. Police and crime commissioners, and others, already I turn to the 12 sets of Lords amendments to which provide significant community-based support to victims we have tabled motions to disagree. I emphasise that, in of crime, but we need better evidence of the gaps in line with our approach throughout the Bill, where we current provision and how they might best be addressed. do not agree with the amendments, and where possible, That is why the Government have now committed to we have sought to address the concerns raised through consult on the provision of community-based support practical measures instead. The first set of amendments as part of this summer’s consultation on the new victims’ relates to the definition of domestic abuse. Lords law. That commitment to consult is backed up by Lords amendments 1 to 3 would bring abuse by all carers of amendments 5, 8 and 10 to 16. Lords amendment 5 will disabled persons, paid and unpaid, within the definition 519 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 520
[Victoria Atkins] I move now to Lords amendments 37, 38 and 83. They deal with two separate but related issues. Lords of domestic abuse in the Bill. I hope it is clear—it amendment 37 aims to extend the householder defence perhaps does not need saying—that the Government in section 76 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration abhor all abuse, and we have every sympathy for the Act 2008 to victims or survivors of domestic abuse. spirit of these amendments. Abuse of disabled people Although the Government sympathise with the aim by their carers must be called out and acted upon. The behind the amendment, we are not persuaded that it is issue before us today is whether this is the right Bill to necessary. We are not aware of any significant evidence strengthen the protection for disabled people. demonstrating that the current full and partial defences The focus of this Bill is on domestic abuse as it is available are failing victims of domestic abuse accused commonly understood—that is, abuse by a current or of crimes against their abuser. We are also concerned former intimate partner, or by a family member. That is that the proposed defence could, as it provides a full the approach taken in the Istanbul convention, which I defence to murder, be open to misuse, potentially even know many hon. Members are keen for the UK to by an abuser, who could seek to claim they were the ratify. Where a disabled person is abused by a partner or victim of domestic abuse, rather than the actual victim. family member, the abuse will be covered by the definition We believe therefore that although it is very difficult to as already agreed by this House. However, Lords achieve, the law currently strikes the right balance between amendments 1 to 3 would bring in a much wider range the interests of the defendant and, importantly, those of of relationships, outside a domestic abuse setting. We the victim as well. should steer away from diluting the purpose of the Bill. Lords amendments 38 and 83 would provide for a As I have said, however, in inviting the House to new statutory defence for victims of domestic abuse disagree with these Lords amendments, we do not wish who are compelled to commit certain criminal offences to downplay or deny for one moment the experience of on the basis of having no realistic alternative. Currently, disabled people who are abused by their paid or volunteer several defences are potentially available to those who carers. There are protections in place, including the commit offences in circumstances where they are in an offences in the Criminal Justice and Courts Act 2015 abusive relationship. These include the full defences of relating to ill treatment and wilful neglect. However, we duress and self-defence, for example, as well as, in have listened carefully to the experiences and concerns homicide cases, the partial statutory defences of loss of raised in this House and the other place. We want to control or diminished responsibility. find practical ways in which to address those concerns. The Government are aware of the concerns raised by That is why the Government intend to carry out a both the Domestic Abuse Commissioner and Victims’ review of the protections for people at risk of carer Commissioner among others, specifically in terms of abuse. We will engage with the noble Baroness Campbell the disparity in the way the courts sometimes deal with of Surbiton and the disabled sector on the scope of the male and female defendants who have been found guilty review,but it would broadly seek to examine the protections of killing their partner. Again, in a spirit of co-operation, offered against carer abuse and the support available to because we understand the motivations behind these victims. We have listened and we will act. arguments, my right hon. and learned Friend the Lord Chancellor is reviewing the sentencing practices in cases relating to domestic homicide, and we believe this is a 12.45 pm more appropriate response to some of the issues raised Lords amendment 33 takes us into the arena of by these amendments. judicial training, requiring the Secretary of State to set Lords amendment 40 seeks to create a data-sharing out a strategy and timetable for such training. Again, firewall so that the personal data of victims of domestic we agree, and we understand the motivations behind abuse that is given or used for the purposes of their this amendment. No one can dispute the need for seeking or receiving support is not used for immigration judges and magistrates to be properly trained in these control purposes. I again stress, as I hope hon. Members matters, nor do we dispute that this must continue to be across the House would acknowledge, that victims of a developing process, and one of improvement. Indeed, domestic abuse, whatever their immigration status, must the judiciary understands this and agrees. The Judicial be treated as victims first and foremost. Guidance issued College is committed to reviewing and improving training by the National Police Chiefs’Council, which was updated on domestic abuse. Moreover, the president of the last year, makes this clear. The national policing lead for family division has indicated that he will consider making domestic abuse is also clear that information sharing recommendations regarding training, taking into account between the police and the Home Office can be in the this Bill, the harm panel report and the four recent interests of victims. Court of Appeal judgments in domestic abuse cases. None the less, we recognise the concerns about ensuring The issue with Lords amendment 33 is not the ends it that there are safe reporting pathways open to migrant seeks, but the means of achieving them. It is not for the victims of domestic abuse. That is why, following the Government to dictate to our independent judiciary policing inspectorate’s report on the super-complaint how they are trained. There are important constitutional lodged about the police sharing immigration data, we principles at stake here; I have no doubt that the president have committed, in good faith, to review existing data- of the family division will have taken notes on the sharing procedures and publish the outcome by June. debates on this amendment in the Lords and will again Having established the police super-complaint process today, and will take appropriate action, but it is right in the Policing and Crime Act 2017, which was supported, that we leave it to him to do so and do not undermine I am pleased to say, by Labour, we should allow that the independence of the judiciary by endorsing this process to operate as intended. Given that commitment, amendment. we would argue that Lords amendment 40 is premature 521 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 522 and, in fact, unnecessary, as the results of our review of the local authority, comprehensive statutory provisions can be implemented through changes to the NPCC are already in place, which determine how local authorities guidance. should discharge their duties, including in relation to I turn now to Lords amendments 41 and 43, which maintaining contact between a child and their family deal with the related matter of support for migrant while protecting the welfare of the child. victims of domestic abuse. Lords amendment 41 in We have not seen evidence to suggest that the existing effect seeks to extend the destitute domestic violence NACCC accreditation framework or the statutory concession to all migrant victims and provide them with framework governing local authorities is failing such a route to apply for indefinite leave to remain. The that the cost and bureaucracy of a statutory accreditation DDVC and the accompanying domestic violence rule scheme are justified. Since the debate in the other place, were established to provide a route for settlement to however, Lord Wolfson, the Minister responsible for those here in the UK on a spousal visa who, had they family justice, has written to the president of the family not suffered domestic abuse and been separated from division and the chief executive of CAFCASS requesting their abuser, would have had a legitimate expectation of that they raise awareness among their colleagues and settling here. It was not designed for those who are here officials of the judicial protocol and memorandum of in a temporary capacity, who would not have had such a understanding that have been agreed between NACCC route to permanent residency. and CAFCASS. We will continue to work with NACCC to keep the position under review, but the case for Lords For other migrant victims, the key consideration is amendment 9 is not made out at this time. not their immigration status, but the provision of support Finally, let me deal with Lords amendment 42, which when they need to flee an abusive relationship. We seeks to strengthen the management of domestic abuse accept that not all migrant victims have access to the perpetrators. Again, this is an objective with which we necessary support and we need to address that, but we can all agree, but we have concerns about how the do not accept the proposition, reflected in Lords amendment would work out. The first limb of the amendment 41, that someone who has come to this amendment seeks, in effect, to create a new category of country on a temporary basis—for example, as a student— offender to be managed under multi-agency public should have a route to settlement by virtue of being a protection arrangements,commonly referred to as MAPPA. victim of domestic abuse. However, we want to help To put this in context, last year nearly 86,000 offenders such victims to recover and escape such relationships. were managed by MAPPA. Throughout the passage of this Bill, we have heard The Government believe that creating a new MAPPA about the role that Southall Black Sisters has played in category for high-harm domestic abuse and stalking helping migrant victims of domestic abuse to get the perpetrators would bring added complexity to the MAPPA support they need. I am therefore delighted to announce framework without compensating benefits. The Criminal that, following a commercial competition, Southall Black Justice Act 2003 already provides for serial and high-harm Sisters has been successful and will be running the offenders to be managed under MAPPA. The real issue, £1.5 million support for migrant victims scheme, which therefore, is not the statutory framework but how it is will run for 12 months and will provide not only safe applied in practice. Here, we accept that there is more to accommodation to victims, but provide us with the do, and we are strengthening the MAPPA statutory evidence on which to take long-term decisions on future guidance to include sections on domestic abuse. support arrangements for migrant victims. As with the We recognise, too, that having access to an information DDVC, such measures can be put in place on a non- management system that can effectively support the statutory basis, so these amendments are unnecessary. police and others in risk managing high-harm offenders Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I am encouraged is essential. ViSOR, the dangerous persons database, is by what the Minister said. I say to her, as always, gently now almost 20 years old and so does not offer the most and honestly, that while I appreciate the £1.5 million, I up-to-date functionality. Work has begun on the new am just wondering whether that is not—forgive me—a multi-agency public protection system, or MAPPS, a paltry sum of money when more may be needed. user-focused and transformational system for the management of offenders, which will be piloted from Victoria Atkins: The hon. Gentleman will know—we next year. MAPPS will support the more efficient and have discussed this on manyoccasions—that the programme effective management of high-threat offenders and improve of support is not only delivering immediate support to informationsharingbetweenfrontlineagencies.Interestingly, migrant victims, but gathering the data that we need on the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill also the range of support and services that such victims strengthens the data-sharing powers of statutory and need, so that we can build a sustainable programme non-statutory agencies, including, for example, domestic going forward. The scheme will run for 12 months. I am abuse charities. really looking forward to working with Southall Black The second limb of Lords amendment 42 would Sisters on this scheme, and from that we can then build require the Home Secretary to promulgate a national a programme of work. This is not the end of the line for perpetrator strategy. We have already committed to migrant victims, and I reassure the House on that. doing just that as part of a holistic domestic abuse strategy Lords amendment 9 seeks to introduce statutory to be published later this year. We have therefore tabled regulation of child contact centres. We accept the need amendments (a) to (c) in lieu of Lords amendment 42 for appropriate regulation, but this is already achieved to enshrine that commitment in law. in private lawfamily cases through the National Association In conclusion, I know that I have taken some time to of Child Contact Centres accreditation framework and set out the Government’s position, but this is an important existing protocols, which ensure that the family courts piece of legislation that has the capacity and the potential and CAFCASS refer parties only to accredited centres. to do so much and to help so many of our constituents, In public law family cases where children are in the care so I hope the House will forgive me for setting out our 523 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 524 reasons in some detail. We need to get this Bill passed Analysis by the domestic abuse sector suggests that and on the statute book so that it can start to help thousands of victims could be left unprotected and victims of domestic abuse and other victims as quickly unsupported under the pilot scheme. Students here as possible, and I commend it and our amendments to studying, for example, might be raped, battered and the House. abused by their partners. Thousands of students have this week talked on the Everyone’s Invited site about 1 pm sexual assaults on campus. Foreign students would not be able to seek refuge in the same way that I can under Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab): Like the the current rules in this country if they needed to Minister, I wish to place on record my own and my escape. party’s sadness on behalf of Her Majesty the Queen. I suppose all your life you get used to the existence of the This pilot is not good enough. It will only provide royal family as if they are always going to be there. In minimal, short-term support for 300 to 500 women. the passing of Prince Philip, we realised how lucky we There is no money,for instance, for counselling, therapeutic are as a nation to have a sort of backbone that is always intervention, interpretation costs, children’s costs and there—a family who are not always perfect, like anyone’s medical or travel costs. What happens, then, when the family, but who we can look to. I and we all feel very 501st victim visits? I can tell you what happens to the keenly in light of the pandemic the loss to the royal 501st victim, because it is what happens now. It is family specifically and to us as a nation. happening to Farah, who was routinely tormented and assaulted with a belt by her father and trapped in that We also share in the Minister’s sadness at the loss of abuse without access to public funds or support and Dame Cheryl Gillan. Regardless of political party, she protection. She said: was a friend especially to every woman in this House. To every woman from every party who came, she offered “I made many calls to the council and even the national domestic violence helpline and many other organisations for words of advice and words of exasperation in the lady people who suffer domestic violence. They all said the same thing: Members’ rooms. She was one of a kind, and she will be I had no recourse to public funds, so they couldn’t and wouldn’t missed genuinely and keenly across the House. She help me. Some of them even said it was the law not to help me. I would definitely have been here today, without question. guess that no recourse to public funds means that it’s okay for me She spoke in almost every single one of these debates. to be violated physically and mentally abused by my father. I We will miss her further, and no doubt we will all seek guess the Government approves of that.” to take on her work. Lords amendment 40 establishes safe reporting Following the death of Sarah Everard, heartbreak, mechanisms which ensure that all victims of domestic fear and anger ripped through the country—a response abuse feel able to come forward to the police. Perpetrators to the endemic violence that women and girls suffer. know at the moment that they can use immigration People felt it in their bones. Responding to such an status as a weapon against vulnerable, frightened victims— outpouring of grief is our job. It is our duty and a “If you tell the police, you’ll get deported and you’ll privilege as parliamentarians to take that emotion, that never see the kids again. If you go to the police, they’ll fear, that rage, that passion and that injustice and to lock you up in a detention centre.” I have seen this turn it into policy and law. It is our job to do something thousands of times. meaningful. At the end of last year, three police oversight bodies The question for the House today, as we consider the said that the data sharing with immigration enforcement amendments inserted into the Bill by the other place in was causing “significant harm” to the public interest. If the heat of those moments, is: who do we decide to victims cannot report, those perpetrators remain out save? I will briefly talk through which amendments we there. We are leaving violent rapists and dangerous, are supporting and why, as the Minister has done. violent men in our community, able to hurt people I welcome very much, as I have throughout its passage, again and again. I listened to the Minister’s comments the immense changes to the Bill. It is unrecognisable on this, and obviously I welcome the idea of a review. In from the day it started, which I do not know if anyone terms of the idea that it is premature to ask for the law can remember; it seems so long ago. The spirit in which to be amended to protect these victims, I have stood in the Bill has been forged—that is how it feels—has the House asking for this for at least four years. It does always been to seek amendments and to work to improve not feel premature for my constituents who had threats it, and my comments will continue in that exact same to kill and ended up in detention. It does not feel spirit as we seek to continue to amend it. premature when I had to go to Yarl’s Wood to collect them. Amendments 40, 41 and 43—I am sure nobody will be surprised to hear my views on migrant victims of I have to disagree with what the Minister said. These domestic abuse—would allow migrant victims to access amendments do not ensure indefinite leave to remain support and protection just like everybody else and just for all victims of domestic abuse or allow some mythical like I could. Without the amendments, victims will be path to dodge immigration processes. They are about left trapped in abusive households. It is as simple as getting victims out of an abusive and dangerous situation, that. The Government will seek to tell us that they have on an equal footing to what any one of us in this House proposed a pilot project, which we have heard about would expect for ourselves and our daughters. I also today. I am pleased to hear that the pilot has gone to expect it for all my constituents. Southall Black Sisters, I believe in partnership with Moving on to other serial offenders whom we currently Birmingham and Solihull Women’s Aid—a place very leave on the streets and those victims who are at the close to my heart—but the specialist organisations and highest risk of harm, Lords amendment 42 requires independent commissioners have all been very clear serial domestic abuse or stalking perpetrators to be that the pilot is inadequate, as the hon. Member for registered on a database and accompanied by a Strangford (Jim Shannon) alluded to. comprehensive perpetrator strategy. The Labour party 525 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 526 supports this amendment. Zoe Dronfield almost died Dangerous criminals are on our streets and in our when her ex-partner attacked her with a meat cleaver. homes, and repeating the same acts of violence and Zoe spent weeks in hospital recovering from bleeding to abuse over and over again, moving from victim to the brain, a stab wound to her neck and a broken right victim. Nothing in what the Government have proposed, arm inflicted during an eight-hour ordeal at the hands I am afraid, has anywhere near enough teeth or will of Jason Smith. Zoe discovered after reporting her case account for, identify and offer safety to the victims now to the police that Smith had abused 13 previous victims. dead at the hands of the most serial perpetrators. The There is a desperate need in this country to do something amendments from the other place are strong, and I very to identify, manage and monitor these high-harm much imagine that it will successfully push back. The perpetrators of stalking and domestic abuse. They would Labour party stands ready to support it as it does so, not have been met by current MAPPA. [Interruption.] and stands to support the victims. The Minister claims that that is not true, but they were Disabled victims are currently left out of the Bill. not in these instances. Lords amendments 1 to 3 change the definition of “personally connected” to reflect the lived experience of Victoria Atkins: I just want to clarify this, because it disabled victims of domestic abuse. Disabled people can is an important detail. Category 3 of MAPPA is defined be victims of domestic abuse by paid and unpaid carers, as “other dangerous offenders”. It does not matter with whom they have close, intimate relationships. For whether that offender has committed section 18 grievous victims, this abuse of trust and power is experienced in bodily harm or criminal damage, which, as the hon. exactly the same way as that perpetrated by a mother, a Lady will know, is a much lower offence. It is the risk father or a partner, so it should be recognised as such in assessment of that defendant in the circumstances of the Bill. The expansion of the definition of “personally the offence that matters and puts them in category 3. connected” will not dilute it, as has been suggested by That is the point—it already exists. the Government, but fortify it to protect those who right now are being domestically abused because they Jess Phillips: If it already exists, why was Jason Smith are dependent on another person in their lives. This is allowed to go on and abuse 13 other people? It is not what disabled people have asked for, and I am sure we just Jason Smith, of course—it is the person who killed will see after today if the review proposed by the Hollie Gazzard, the person who killed Jane Clough and Government is satisfactory to those voices, who are the the person who killed Helen. The reality is that this is ones we must listen to in this. not working, and the victims in these instances, like Zoe Dronfield, have spoken very clearly, and the agencies Moving on to training of the judiciary and the have spoken clearly. They have asked us to look again accreditation of child contact centres, I want Members and help to protect them. in this House to know that today they will be voting against making it mandatory for family court judges to be trained on domestic abuse. The Government are Victoria Atkins: Just to assist the House, as I hope I claiming that Lords amendment 33 threatens the made clear in my speech, we know there have been independence of the judiciary.They have yet to elaborate, horrific instances where, in the system itself, those risk and the Minister did not elaborate on this point earlier. assessments and the management have not been done However, I shall assume—she can of course correct me properly. I think we are having a disagreement about if I am wrong—that she and those who sit behind her, whether putting in a new category will change that. We both metaphorically and actually, are using the want to look, and we are doing so through the statutory Constitutional Reform Act 2005, which gave the Lord Chief guidance, at how these assessments are made on the Justice responsibility for training. I am assured that ground. That is what will make a difference, not a those who tabled this amendment in the other place statutory framework. took legal advice on this exact thing, and they do not agree that it is unconstitutional, but think it fits very Jess Phillips: I can sympathise with what the Minister well with that Act. is saying, but I would ask the House and the Minister to sympathise with somebody on the frontline who has The amendment was drafted by a peer who is a QC, been watched again and again, through one multi-agency and was accepted by the parliamentary Clerks. On risk assessment conference after another, or a serious Report, a number of significant legal minds voted in case review or a domestic homicide review. Again and favour of the amendment, including QCs and the former again, the same thing is said—agencies do not speak to Deputy President of the Supreme Court. I would very each other. The idea of amending the statutory guidance much welcome a copy of the Government’s legal advice. but not putting in place some legislative framework so There is absolutely no desire on our parts to do anything that this has to occur is just more, “Oh, let’s see if we that is unconstitutional. We are not even saying what can get agencies speaking to each other again.” It just is the frame of the training has to be, just that it has to not enough. It is not just me who thinks it is not happen. The idea that the Lord Chief Justice would enough. When I spoke to Zoe Dronfield herself this push back, saying it did not have to happen and was morning, she told me that she was devastated. In the against the independence of the judiciary, is something, heat of the Sarah Everard killing, she felt that the frankly, that we would want to push against. Government were listening, and today victims like her The Government’s own harm review found that feel as though they have been let down. comments made by judges in the family court included, The Government amendment in lieu is not enough. It for example, that a woman could not be a victim of is perfectly fine in its own right and the Labour party domestic abuse because she wore make-up to court. called for a perpetrator strategy in Committee, but it is Judges also found that women were emotional and not the same as what is proposed in Lords amendment 42. temperamental when they cried about their abuse in the It is not even nearly answering the same question. court room. Who knew that we did not need the police, 527 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 528
[Jess Phillips] organisations and many brilliant and brave victims, we have worked to amend, educate and improve and to the courts or welfare for victims of domestic abuse? We build consensus and agreement with the Government, should have just told women to pop on a bit of make-up, and it has been an honour at many times. That is what and that would have protected them from domestic we are doing here today; we are always seeking to abuse. That is essentially what is being said in our family improve the Bill, not for political wins, but for millions courts: if a woman wears make-up, how can she be a of terrified victims and their children in this country. victim of domestic abuse? That was not said by me but Their Lordships and the Baronesses have been incredibly by a judge in our family courts, and that kind of thoughtful, thorough and detailed in their amendments. attitude is not just insulting but dangerous, because We should listen, because I promise hon. Members that terrible practice in our family courts leaves children eventually, for every single one of these amendments, a alone with violent perpetrators. I am not offended by terrible case will come along that proves that we should the sexism; I am frightened for people’s lives. have acted. It will not take long; they come every three days. Let us try to make that happen less. 1.15 pm Lords amendments 37, 38 and 83 seek to understand Mrs Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con): If I may the impact of domestic abuse. Amendment 37 would crave your indulgence, Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish, amend the law on self-defence and offer justice for as the Minister did, to take the opportunity in this victims who, because of suffering long-term violence, Chamber to pay my tribute to our late right hon. rape or coercive control, are driven to using force against Friend, Cheryl Gillan. Cheryl was an incredible person. their abuser. Sometimes terror, desperation and despair She was a fierce defender of her constituents and proudly can drive a victim to inflict violence in self-protection. put forward their interests, but she was also a great Society is beginning to understand that. The law must too. friend to MPs across this House. As the Minister and Lords amendments 38 and 83 provide a defence the shadow Minister recognised, she was particularly a where a person is coerced into a crime because they live friend to women in this Chamber. Quite simply, with in a situation of domestic abuse, and is based on existing the passing of Cheryl Gillan, this House has lost one of legal protections given to victims of trafficking who the best of its Members. offend. This is an already existing situation. The Minister Before I comment on the amendments, I want to say said earlier that there is no evidence, but I would push a huge thank you to all those who have been involved in back, as somebody who worked for many years in this Bill from the very inception of the idea of having women’s prisons and in female offenders’ services, that another Domestic Abuse Bill. Although I do not necessarily there is plenty of evidence of women offending as a agree with all the Lords amendments, I recognise that result of a pattern of sexual exploitation, coercion and everybody has been working to make the Bill what they domestic abuse. In fact, it was very well evidenced that believe to be absolutely the best. This really important one of the pathways to offending for women is domestic Bill will save lives and protect the too many people who, abuse—it is written in most Government documents. daily, are sadly abused by their partners and those they There is therefore quite a body of evidence that there is are living with in horrific and terrible ways. a problem in this instance. I turn now to specific amendments. I have just referenced These defences do not prevent individuals, no matter the abuse that takes place, and I fully recognise the the circumstances, from being held accountable, but intention behind Lords amendments 1 to 3. We should, they are protections and take into account the true of course, have absolutely zero tolerance of abuse by impact of domestic abuse on a person. In rebuttal of carers. The very name “carer” means that they are the amendments, the Government assert—without a supposed to be looking after and caring for the person shred of evidence in this instance—that such defences they are with. One of the most important aspects of the could be used by perpetrators. I would be happy to read Bill—it seems very trivial, but it is one of the most any evidence that the Minister has of that, but there is important aspects—is the definition of domestic abuse, no such evidence that I am aware of, and I am more and the fact that we are adopting that wider definition than slightly annoyed that the Government then ignore of abuse. Domestic abuse is not simply abuse that takes the fact that the issue of no recourse to public funds place within a domestic setting. It takes place between gets used by perpetrators, when we see that every day—I two individuals who have a particularly close and intimate guess we just have to pick and choose when these things relationship, and it is that personal connection that I are an issue in terms of which amendments we want to think is important. get through. There is very little evidence, if any, that The Government are absolutely right to be working such defences are used by perpetrators, but there is huge with those who have raised, in particular, the abuse of amounts of evidence in other areas. disabled people to look at what protections need to be Now is the time for deeds, not words. Today we can put in place, why the system is not currently working say that, yes, we have included migrant victims in this and why the arrangement that can deal with these cases Bill, we have included disabled victims, we have improved does not always appear to be working. What lies at the victims’ access to justice and we have sought to stop heart of domestic abuse is the relationship between the perpetrators before they do the same thing again. Let us perpetrator and the victim. That is why it is important not have to look ourselves in the mirror and say, “We that we do not widen the definition in the way their could have done more.” Lordships have proposed. The Domestic Abuse Bill has been a huge part of the Of course, domestic abuse can continue outside the work that I have done since I came into this House. I am domestic setting—for example, in a workplace or online. going miss it; maybe that is why I want it to go back to That is one of the reasons why I particularly welcome the Lords—I just cannot let it go. Along with victims’ Lords amendment 34, to extend the offence of controlling 529 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 530 and coercive behaviour to a situation where the perpetrator through the net. The Government undertook a review. and victim are no longer living together. It is a mistake They have now undertaken to put in place the Support to think that domestic abuse ends if the two individuals, for Migrant Victims scheme. The Minister announced the perpetrator and the victim, are physically separated that Southall Black Sisters will run that scheme, which I by no longer being together in the same premises. This welcome. is an important amendment. As we know, too many It is important that we recognise that not all victims survivors find themselves subject to controlling and are the same and that we are able to identify the specific coercive behaviour even after they have been separated circumstances and the specific protections and support from their perpetrator. I commend the role played by needed in those cases where people are currently falling my noble Friend Baroness Sanderson in putting forward through the net. I support the Government’s decision the amendment. I also commend her for all the work not to support the Lords amendments on these particular she has done on domestic abuse when she was working issues. What matters is that victims are recognised as for me in No. 10 Downing Street and subsequently in victims, regardless of their status. What we must now her time in another place. I am sure she will continue to allow is the good intention of providing extra support work on these issues. for victims inadvertently leading to more victims. I want to come on to the Lords amendments that I do On data sharing, which has been linked in the not agree with. Lords amendment 33 is about training amendments, the issue is not as simple as it is sometimes for judges. I have heard the arguments across the Front portrayed. I am very pleased to be able to say that this Bench on that issue. During lockdown 1, I joined Dr Peter is, I think, the first use of the police super-complaints Aitken, Elizabeth Filkin and the former Supreme Court process, which was introduced, as the Minister said, judge Nicholas Wilson to produce a report called, “Seize under the Policing and Crime Act 2017, so I have some the Moment to End Domestic Abuse”. We focused sense of bearing some responsibility for it. That is good, particularly on the Bill and its implications. One important because it shows that it can work. recommendation we made to the Ministry of Justice was that the MOJ should ensure the proper training of judges on the implications of the Bill once it is enacted. Jess Phillips: It won’t be the last. The shadow Minister is absolutely right that there have been some very bad cases where the attitude of judges Mrs May: The hon. Lady is right; it won’t be the last. has shown that they simply do not understand domestic The important thing is that it has been shown that it abuse, the nature of domestic abuse or the wide range of works and that a super-complaint can be brought. Let abuse that can take place. It is important that training is us respect that process and do what has been recommended the responsibility of the Lord Chief Justice, and I think by HMICFRS—I apologise for the initials; I think I put the commitments given by the President of the Family the fire service in with the inspectorate of constabulary— Division and the Judicial College are important in that and, as the Government say, undertake that review and respect. I would simply say to the Government that it is put into place whatever is necessary as a result of it. important that the Government make sure that those On Lords amendment 42, on the register, this has steps are put in place and that training is put in place. been a matter of debate for some considerable time. It I want to raise a question that may be answered later. has been raised with me by constituents and by one of There is an issue about who decides the nature of that my local councillors on behalf of a resident not in my training, how good the training is and what it actually constituency. What I would say is that simply putting covers. I am sure there are those who would say that the somebody on a register does not mean that protection is judiciary have had training already. Well, it is patently going to be provided. There was an exchange across the obvious that there are some who perhaps did not imbibe Front Benches about MAPPA and how it is operating. the training as well as they might have done. MAPPAcan currently cover these cases of serial domestic abuse offenders and high-harm domestic abuse offenders, This point is not specific to the amendments, but, if I so there is a question as to who would be covered who is may, it is not just the judiciary whom we need to ensure not already covered. If they are already covered but are trained. We need to ensure that the police, local there are still these cases, the question is not whether the authorities and others are trained on the implications of system applies to these cases, but why the system is not the Bill when enacted if we are going to see it being working in relation to them. implemented. One thing we sometimes forget in this place is that it is not just about passing pieces of legislation; it is about what then happens with that 1.30 pm legislation and how it is implemented. Fundamentally, one problem all too often seen in a I will now come on to one of the more contentious number of areas involving the police and others relates areas in the amendments, which has been a long-standing to information sharing between agencies. We do not issue: the question of support for migrant victims. The improve information sharing between agencies simply Minister and the Government have given a clear by putting into legislation that somebody’s name has to commitment to ensure that the victims of domestic go on the register. I am sorry, it is hard to say that, but it abuse are treated as victims, whatever their immigration is the case. If it is already possible under that system for status. Of course, systems of support are already in agencies to be sharing that information but they are not existence—the destitute domestic violence concession doing so, the question is: why are they not doing so? scheme, as has been referred to by others, is for those This partly probably slips back to something we were who are here on a spousal visa, while victims who are talking about earlier: the training and their actually also victims of modern slavery can be referred to support understanding rather better these issues of domestic available through the national referral mechanism—but abuse and the role the different agencies can play. So the concern is that there are those who are falling overhauling the system is particularly important. 531 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 532
I wanted to discuss Lords amendment 9, because “arrangements to ensure that the personal data…processed for I have a question for the Government in relation to it. I the purpose of” recognise that in the private law family cases the judiciary securing that help and support “is not used” against and Children and Family Court Advisory and Support victims for immigration purposes. We therefore give it Service have protocols. May I say to the Minister that our support. I listened to what the Minister said in from my experience of more than 20 years as a constituency response, but I do not understand how police guidance MP, telling me that CAFCASS has an involvement in can provide any sort of comprehensive answer and I something does not necessarily fill me with reassurance? fear that the evidence shows that it will not. It does not So I say to the Government that it is important to make provide the necessary or sufficient reassurance that a sure that those protocols are sufficient and that they are statutory provision can provide. It is that simple. doing the job that needs to be done. Speaking about Lords amendment 41 is, as we heard, the new clause child contact centres, may I simply say that I would like that would broaden the scope of the domestic violence to thank everybody who has been involved in the rule and the concessions so that more victims of domestic Maidenhead child contact centre over the years? Sadly, abuse here can find safety, knowing that they also have it has taken the decision that it needs to close, but it has a pathway to leave to remain and do not need endure provided support to many, many families and children destitution and homelessness while they pursue it. Now, over the years, and I would like to thank those there for those possibilities are limited largely to those who are their work. here on spouse visas. Finally, I wish to say that it is really important that The domestic violence rule and the concessions have we get this Bill on the statute book. We are running out been transformative for many victims of domestic abuse of time. I know we can ping-pong and carry on until we who are able to access them. The very same reasons for actually get through it, but were we to run out of time putting them in place for those on spouse visas clearly and were it not to get on the statute book, that would be also apply to other victims of domestic abuse. If we do the biggest betrayal of victims. not completely break the link between a woman’s lawful residence here and her relationship with an abusive Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and partner, far from helping her, we are hindering her Kirkintilloch East) (SNP) [V]: It is a pleasure to follow ability to find help and support—we hand power to the the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), abuser. No one wants that but, unless we support the and I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak in new clause, I fear that is the position that we will risk this hugely important debate. First, let me echo what remaining in. both the Minister and the shadow Minister said about Again, I do not understand the Government’s answers His Royal Highness Prince Philip and about Dame in response, in particular what was said about the Lords Cheryl Gillan. We will very much miss what would amendment not being true to the original purpose of typically have been a knowledgeable and passionate the rule and the concessions. On the contrary, it is about contribution from Dame Cheryl in this debate and in so applying the same purpose, intention and reasoning to many debates to come. a broader group of victims who equally require support Although these Lords amendments cover many and protection, ensuring that they may access them. significant issues, I shall take only a short time to cover In relation to another Government response, the two, as the Bill almost exclusively extends to England Lord Bishop of Gloucester explained in the other place and Wales and relates largely to devolved matters. The why the Government’s support for migrant victims, two excellent Lords amendments I wish to express while welcome, is not a comprehensive answer, as the Scottish National party support for are Lords amendments shadow Minister said today. We need bolder action as a 40 and 41, which were drafted expressly with a broader matter of urgency. There is already an abundance of scope, touch on a reserved matter—immigration—and evidence that the changes proposed by way of Lords have the potential to bring significant benefits to victims amendment 41 are utterly necessary and could transform from across the UK if we support them today. lives. Lords amendment 40 would start to roll back the The Government also seem to object that the leave Home Office’s ever-extending network of data sharing proposed might ultimately be indefinite leave. If they agreements and its grab of sweeping exemptions to data find that objectionable—I do not understand the reasons protection laws—my party has repeatedly proposed this. why they might—rather than reject the amendment These exemptions have contributed to a dangerous situation outright, they should at least provide for a decent in which migrants feel unable or reluctant to access period of time unencumbered by restrictions, including potentially vital public services for fear that any information on public funds, to allow victims to get the support that they share will end up being used by the Home Office in they need and to get their lives back on track. a bid to remove them. Domestic abuse is one severe but In a letter to MPs this morning, Ministers argued perfect illustration of that point. Fleeing an abusive that migrant victims are not a homogeneous group, and partner can of course put women at risk, and none of that argument has been repeated this afternoon, but we us would want them to fear seeking the protection and know that—those advocating Lords amendment 41 know support that they need. The reality, however, is that too it better than anyone—and supporters of the amendment often they do, and one reason for that fear is precisely are not treating them as such. Rather, we would create a because they do not have faith that the information they space in which complex and diverse needs can be better are required to share will not result in an attempt to understood and addressed and where victims are free of remove them or have other implications for their current the incredibly intimidating coercion and control that and future status here. precarious immigration status can cause a victim. The That is what Lords amendment 40 effects, by requiring Government risk denying victims that space and the the Home Secretary to put in place possibility of addressing their diverse needs. 533 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 534
In conclusion, the focus should not be on the nature that lessons should be learned, but in the end they never of victims’ immigration status or the type of visa that are and not enough changes. We cannot carry on like they hold; it should be on their needs as victims. Despite this. the Government’s protestations to the contrary, Lords Hollie Gazzard was stalked and murdered by a man amendment 41 would be another step towards ensuring who was involved in 24 previous violent offences, including that that happens. The question for this House is: what 12 on an ex-partner. Even though he had been reported is more important, protecting and supporting victims, to the police many times, there was no proactive risk or protecting Home Office powers over migration? We assessment, and there was no management despite his say, support the victims, and we therefore give our full previous violent offences.Linzi Ashton was raped, strangled support to the Lords amendments. and murdered by a man who had strangled two previous partners, but his repeat pattern of abuse towards women Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) was not picked up. Jane Clough, an A&E nurse, was (Lab) [V]: I join in the tributes to Cheryl Gillan, whom stalked and then murdered by a violent ex-partner, even we all miss badly from this House and from debates though he had a history of abusing other women. He such as this one in which she has been a participant for was not on the high-risk offenders register and the so many years. police were not monitoring him. I welcome the progress made on the Bill with the work done in the House of Lords. It is an important Bill There are so many cases. Shana Grice was stalked and I commend the work on it of the Minister, the and murdered in 2016. The man who killed her had Opposition Front Benchers and all those in the Lords abused 13 girls before, yet there was still no focus on who sought to improve and build on it, because it got him as a perpetrator, and no intelligence or information better as a result of all that work along the way. We have sharing. Faced with these cases, where perpetrators seen, for example, the addition of references to children have repeated convictions for domestic abuse or for as part of the Bill—something that our Home Affairs stalking, why on earth are their names not on the Committee recommended some years ago—and the high-risk offenders register? Why on earth is there not a amendments to reflect the issues raised earlier in our process to identify or manage these high-risk individuals? Commons debates about making non-fatal strangulation Why on earth do the police not take these cases seriously, an offence. because it is not happening? That is what Lords amendment 42 is all about. It adds convicted serial domestic abusers I want to focus in particular on two areas where the and stalkers to the high-risk offenders register so that Lords have proposed amendments that the Government police and specialist agencies can work together to are still resisting. The first is to support points made by prevent them from offending again and to use the other Members about the need to make sure that migrant multi-agency public protection arrangements to keep women are not deterred from coming forward to get more women safe. help when they desperately need it. These can be some of the most vulnerable women of all, threatened by We know that, when it comes to domestic abuse, perpetrators with losing their immigration status.Effectively, stalking, or violence against women, the most serious what the perpetrators are doing is exploiting the immigration offenders are those repeat offenders. That is where we system to exert coercive control over vulnerable women. should be trying to focus more of our efforts. We have a responsibility to make sure that that cannot Let me consider the Government’s objections. The happen, but, again, the Government are not going far Minister says that they will draw up a perpetrators enough in that regard. strategy, which was part of Lords amendment 42. That The second area that I want to address is in relation is strongly welcome, but the Government are not going to Lords amendment 42, which was put forward by far enough with their plans for that strategy.For example, Baroness Royall with support from across the Lords, the strategy currently does not include stalking, which it including from Baroness Newlove. It is similar to an needs to do, and it is not a replacement for the high risk amendment that I put forward at an earlier stage in the register and the proper monitoring and interventions Bill’s consideration, which the Government did say they underpinned by statute that we need. would consider, because they recognised the importance The Minister has said that a new category 4 is not of the issue. It builds on the work that Laura Richards needed on the high-risk offenders register—a new category at Paladin has done and has the support of hundreds of from MAPPA—because these dangerous people can be thousands of people who have signed petitions for included in category 3. The trouble is that just because stronger action against repeat perpetrators of domestic in theory some of them can be does not mean that most abuse and stalking. of them are. The system is not working; simply adding a We know that there are too many cases of awful bit more guidance, a bit more urging and a bit more crimes against women—serious domestic abuse, awful soul searching will not mean they are included in practice violence, horrendous stalking, murder, and lives that either. are lost as a result of terrible crimes—and yet the Category 3 has historically been interpreted very perpetrator has committed crimes before. They may narrowly and is interpreted by gatekeepers—people who have been involved in other stalking offences, harassment, are concerned about stretched resources and will continue repeated domestic abuse or violence. They move to be so. At the moment, what that means in practice is from one victim to another and sometimes from one that police, probation officers and other agencies involved town or region to another. They find someone new to in the system are simply not treating repeat perpetrators control and to abuse and someone else whose lives they —those with repeat domestic abuse convictions—as high- can destroy. Too often, when those previous crimes risk offenders, yet they are high risk. Someone who has emerge, everyone sighs in sadness, everyone wishes that already been convicted of domestic abuse against a the signs had been picked up earlier, everyone says that series of different women is a risk to other women and the dots should have been joined, and everyone says needs to be properly assessed, yet at the moment the 535 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 536
[Yvette Cooper] We do not have to be passive in the face of the escalating violence of a small number of dangerous offenders. We system does not assess them as high risk. That is what do not have to just allow these violent criminals to keep we are trying to fundamentally change through legislation, reoffending in perpetuity. After the awful murders of to send a strong signal through the system—to police Sarah Everard, Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry, the officers, specialist agencies and probation services across Government rightly said they would redouble their the country—that these cases are high risk and put action on violence against women, so I urge them to do other women at risk in future. They need to be properly so. Amendment 42 gives them the possibility to do so. I assessed and managed to keep other women safe. hope the Minister will think again and support amendment 42 now. 1.45 pm Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): We The Government have said that that would introduce now go to the Chairman of the Select Committee on complexity without compensatory benefits. The Justice, Sir Robert Neill. compensatory benefit would be to include more people in the system who are high risk to future victims. That is Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con) [V]: the benefit, and it would be hugely important. Nor do I It is a pleasure to speak in this important debate because accept that the proposal would add complexity. It would this is a very important Bill, it is a good Bill and it undoubtedly add to the number of people who would significantly improves the law in a number of respects. need to be assessed, because we know that some of A number of the amendments made in the other place these people are not being assessed when they should improve the Bill, too. be, but it would not add complexity. In fact, there would I am particularly pleased to see the creation of the be a clear and simple process that recognises that this offence of non-fatal strangulation. As right hon. and group of people needs to be assessed and recognised for hon. Members will know, I practised in the criminal the risks that they pose. courts for some 25 years before coming into this place. I fear that part of the difference between us is about There was a gap in the law here. Evidentially it was resources and the number of people who would need to often very difficult to fit that course of conduct into the be assessed, because the undoubted impact of this existing offence under section 18 of the Offences Against measure would be to require additional people—those the Person Act 1861 to reflect the gravity of it—the who pose the highest risk, the repeat domestic abuse lower offence under section 20 often would not give and stalking cases—to be assessed, on the register and adequate sentencing powers. Equally it was often difficult properly managed. My fear is that some of the resistance to demonstrate that the elements of attempted murder from within the Home Office comes from a fear of were made out—often it would not be possible to prove needing to provide the additional resources. I therefore that was the case—in the light of what had happened. ask the Minister to look again at this and at the importance So the creation of a specific offence to deal with a type of recognising that we need to expand the system to of behaviour that is particularly pernicious in abusive keep more women safe. relationships—I certainly came across it in my career, as Let us remember that statistic we all use. We all talk I am sure have many others in this House—is particularly about two women a week who are killed by a partner or valuable and welcome. I know it is welcomed by an ex as a result of domestic abuse. It is still two women practitioners and by judges in these cases, because it a week. When the right hon. Member for Maidenhead now gives us a means of capturing the whole of the (Mrs May) and I were first debating issues around conduct that can happen in these types of relationship. domestic abuse almost 10 years ago, we were talking So that is very welcome. about the two women a week whose lives were lost; it is I welcome, too, what the Minister said about revenge still two women a week whose lives are lost. Those are porn. The Law Commission’s work is very valuable in the women we should be trying to help, and that is what this field, but the Government’s commitment to moving amendment 42 does. If two people a week were losing swiftly on this is important too, because it is critical that their lives at football matches as a result of the violent offences are kept up to date with the changing technologies behaviour of a small number of hooligans or violent and use of social media in society. So these are very perpetrators, you could bet we would focus on those good aspects of the Bill, in addition to the others that perpetrators and the action needed to target those have already been mentioned. violent offenders. We have to do the same for women’s I want to talk briefly about three Lords amendments lives and not think it is too complex or difficult to get that the Government are right to resist, although I the system to work and focus on high-risk offenders. understand and support, as will most Members, the That is why I urge the Government to think again, sentiments behind them. The first is Lords amendment 33, change their position and support amendment 42. It is which relates to judicial training. The Minister’scomments not enough to say that it is possible under the existing on this are right. It is absolutely right that there must be system to take action against dangerous perpetrators. It training. A great deal is being done now to improve is not about what is possible; we need to ensure that it awareness by judges and sentencers—both judges and happens in practice. Our responsibility is to ensure that magistrates, because we must remember many of these the action to keep women safe takes place. That is why cases will be tried by lay magistrates as well as by we need amendment 42. professional judges. It is absolutely right that there is I urge the Minister to listen to the words of the father up-to-date and comprehensive training in this regard. of Jane Clough, John Clough, who has said: The Judicial College has done a great deal of work now. “It’s way past time serial abusers and stalkers were treated with As Baroness Butler-Sloss—a former president of the the same gravitas as sex offenders and managed in a similar family division and one of the most experienced family fashion”. judges we have in this country, although she is now 537 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 538 retired—pointed out, that has been incorporated specifically can be captured and used by a defendant to assert that both into the initial training and the refresher training they were acting in self-defence. that is required for judges and magistrates. The Justice The law of self-defence has changed. In fact, I was Committee in previous reports in relation to the role of involved in one of the leading cases in the Court of the magistracy has urged that there be a more Appeal, which rightly—albeit I was on the prosecution comprehensive training programme. It is important that side—said that the law prior to the case of Bird back in the Minister ensures that the Ministry of Justice makes the 1990s was too restrictive in what could be pleaded as the funding available for those training programmes, self-defence. That is particularly important to a woman, whether residential or day courses, to be systematically and the defendant in that case was a female. The person and comprehensively delivered across the country, and she had assaulted in self-defence was, as it turned out, a that all magistrates and judges have access to them in a man. That imbalance was not properly reflected in the timely fashion. law up until the Bird case, but it then was, and therefore However, I do not think we need primary legislation the existing common law is on a much sounder footing to do that. We certainly should have a practical strategy, to deal with this. Therefore, it is not necessary to go but I do not think it is right that that should lie in the down the route set out in Lords amendment 38. hands of the Secretary of State. If I can draw an The defence of duress is, as I say, already available. analogy, later in the proceedings, there is a Government Evidence that shows that the defendant had been a amendment in lieu setting out a strategy for the prosecution victim of domestic abuse is of itself already relevant of offenders. I think that is properly a strategy that can and admissible to set up the defence of duress, in the be owned by Ministers because it relates to what is done same way as it is relevant and admissible where a by the Executive arms of state such as the prosecution. defence of self-defence is pleaded. So we are in danger That is different from what is done by the judicial arm of over-engineering a solution that is already there and of the state. It does not seem constitutionally proper, where the courts have shown themselves willing to despite the good intentions behind the amendment, to reflect changes in social conditions and the pressures enable any Secretary of State to have power to dictate to that exist. the independent judiciary how they should set about Let me end my observations by stating that the their training programmes and what they should contain. attitude of the courts in relation to domestic abuse That is a discrete but significant flaw in the amendment, offences, and to sexual offences more generally as well, which is why the House would be right to resist it. The is sometimes criticised—sometimes rightly—but I have objective can be achieved but without trespassing over noticed that the judiciary’s approach has changed vastly the constitutional division between Executive, legislature over the years I have been involved in criminal law. and judiciary that unfortunately is the inevitable and There is now a much greater understanding of the logical consequence of the amendment. It puts the power imbalance that often exists in relationships and power in a Minister’s hands when in fact there is a clear that, very frequently, women are in the more vulnerable willingness by the judiciary to seize the nettle themselves position. In both the investigation of offences and their on this. We shall make sure that they have the resources handling in court, far greater sensitivity is now shown to enable them to seize that nettle, but we should not be to victims and complainants in such cases, and absolutely dictating to them as to how they do it. That is why the rightly so. Government are right to resist the amendment. It seems to me that the law is able to deal with these Lords amendments 37 and 38 relate to reasonable matters without the need for further primary legislation. force as a defence and a further statutory offence in The sentiments behind the three Lords amendments I domestic abuse cases. Again, the intention is entirely have spoken about are entirely laudable, but they can be laudable but, certainly in my experience, it is not necessary picked up and captured elsewhere. For those reasons, it to put this into primary legislation. For example, the is proper for the Government to resist them. circumstances that are set out in the two amendments and in the lengthy schedule—I think that is Lords amendment 83, which is attached to one of those— 2 pm relate to offences where it is already possible under existing criminal law for a defendant to raise the full Gill Furniss (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) defence of self-defence, which once raised must then be (Lab): I express my commiserations to the Queen, the rebutted by the prosecution, or a partial defence—for royal family and, of course, the family of our very own example, an offence of duress, which can, under certain Dame Cheryl Gillan. circumstances, either be a complete defence to an offence I really welcome the Bill: it is a huge step in the right or reduce murder down to manslaughter. Those are direction to better support victims of domestic abuse, already available. and I thank all those who have worked so hard to make Since the decision in the Challen case—a case that sure that it has come forward. However, in passing this came too late in terms of justice to the individual legislation we must ensure that someone’s migrant status concerned but which has now set the law on a much does not prevent them from getting the support that better and more up-to-date footing—there is a recognition they need. that the course of conduct of coercive control can be One of the greatest challenges in tackling the abhorrent regarded as a factor that raises the defence of duress in crime of domestic abuse is the fact that all too often the appropriate case. Therefore, the means of a victim incidents go unreported. The problem is further exacerbated of domestic abuse to bring that before the court is if victims are afraid to come forward because they fear already available and it does not seem necessary to add that doing so could lead to their deportation. For these clauses to the Bill. It might actually have the effect example, there is a risk that people will be afraid to of limiting, unintentionally, the scope of conduct that report their abuse if their right to be in the UK is 539 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 540
[Gill Furniss] Morgan of Cotes, whose expert—and indeed noble— badgering was successful in getting the amendment dependent on their staying with their spouse. Everyone, over the line in the other place. no matter their migration status, deserves equal protection Most of all, however, I thank my constituent Natasha under the law. Saunders. I should say “my former constituent” because Lords amendment 40, on data sharing for immigration I have lost her to my hon. Friend the Member for North purposes, is therefore a huge opportunity to reassure Herefordshire (Bill Wiggin)—although she assures me victims and witnesses that the details they share with that that is no reflection on her former Member of the police and other agencies will not be used for any Parliament. Brave women such as Natasha, and brave immigration-control purposes. This will give them the men, have stood up and told their stories. It is one thing confidence to come forward and report this often-hidden to campaign for changes to the law; it is much harder crime. for someone to speak publicly about the darkest Let me turn to Lords amendment 41, on leave to moments—the most personal and private moments—of remain and the destitution domestic violence concession. their life. The long, arduous process of reporting domestic abuse When we last debated the Bill in this House, I shared and then through to eventual conviction is immensely some of Natasha’s story. She said, in her own words: taxing for all victims. The stress caused is unmanageable “The threat of those photos being shared was my worst if victims are having to secure their right to remain in nightmare—I had no choice but to comply with his continued the UK at the same time. abuse or face potential humiliation… The threat was always there The situation is made worse by the policies that limit and as the years went on, it was like I ceased to exist. He made me feel invisible to everyone and if I displeased him in any way, I access to some key services for those subject to immigration knew he could use those pictures to ruin my reputation.” control. Lords amendment 41 will enshrine into law the right of victims of domestic abuse to have a route Natasha has been working with Refuge. I thank it, towards being granted indefinite leave to remain. too, for its excellent research on this issue, which gave us Importantly, it will also guarantee their right to access the evidence base we needed. Refuge’s “The Naked services that could provide a vital lifeline. It could save Threat” report found that one in 14 people in England lives. and Wales, and one in seven young women, has been a victim of threats to share. Almost four in five women In building a global Britain, we must stand shoulder changed the way they behaved as a result of the threats, to shoulder with all victims of domestic abuse, no proving how much this law is needed. matter their country of origin. Not only do we have a moral responsibility to enact the changes in the Lords Threatening to expose someone at their most vulnerable amendments but, as signatories to the Istanbul convention because they have done or want to do something you do on preventing violence against women and girls, we not like is a deeply sinister crime. It has already resulted have an international responsibility, too. in tragedy, and I know it has contributed to trapping people in dangerous, abusive relationships. Now survivors One of the remaining hurdles in the way of full will have a route to justice. implementation of the convention is equal protection on the grounds of migrant or refugee status. Eight years I am proud to vote for Lords amendment 35. I am on from the UK having become a signatory, it is a even prouder of Natasha. She has decided to start on national embarrassment that the Government have the journey from campaigner to Member of Parliament, repeatedly dithered and delayed its implementation. to do more to protect others from the horror she Lords amendments 40 and 41 will remove the stumbling suffered, and I very much hope that she will join us on block and pave the way towards Britain fulfilling its the iconic green Benches before long. international and moral obligations. Domestic abuse has existed in the shadows for far too Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD) [V]: First, long. This legislation goes a significant way towards may I associate myself with the remarks of the Minister protecting victims, and I hope Members will support and the tributes to both His Royal Highness Prince Lords amendments 40 and 41 to ensure that its protections Philip and Dame Cheryl Gillan? are available to all. It is, as others have said, a privilege to take part in this debate. When the Bill was first introduced, we were Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con) [V]: I am delighted already aware of the need for protection for so many in to speak in this debate. Some excellent additions have our society. Roughly 2 million people a year in the UK, been made to what was already a very strong Bill. In most of them women, are subject to some form of particular,I am delighted to speak to Lords amendment 35, domestic abuse. In the subsequent debates, we have which makes threatening to share sexual photographs heard some incredibly brave and moving stories. or videos of someone without their consent an offence Throughout the covid-19 crisis, we have seen domestic punishable by up to two years in prison. abuse figures increase exponentially. In the past month, Let me put on the record my thanks to both Bill we have become, if anything, even more aware of the Ministers, the Under-Secretary of State for the Home need for this landmark legislation. As the hon. Member Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Louth for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) expressed, it is and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), and the Under-Secretary our duty here to reflect the demand for change that we of State for Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for have seen and heard from so many in our society. Cheltenham (Alex Chalk). I know that they have long The Bill has certainly changed and developed over supported these measures and worked hard to include the past four years. It has been supported and shaped them in the Bill, and they have put up with my badgering positively from both sides of the Chamber, and I believe them on this issue with good grace. I also thank Baroness it has become stronger as a result. We have made 541 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 542 progress and strengthened the Bill in areas such as the country. In fact, just last night I was contacted including children in the definition, introducing protections about someone who is a victim of domestic abuse and for survivors of abuse in court, and taking our first who needs my support. This just happens way too often. steps towards making misogyny a hate crime. There are two parts of the Bill to which I will refer However, the Bill could still be stronger. There are today:Lordsamendment42andthenow-includedprovision important, significant areas in which there is more work in Lords amendment 35 on the threat to disclose intimate that we need to do. They include migrant women, who images. On the latter,I will say this. In 2015, we recognised should have the same consideration as every other the manipulative and psychological power that abusers had woman in our society. Getting out of a violent or over victims when laws were introduced in relation to abusive situation should not be dependent on where revenge porn, and we have seen more than 900 abusers someone comes from. For me, this is a critical point. As convicted as a result. I am relieved to see that the threat has already been mentioned, this country has signed the to disclose intimate images is now being addressed in Istanbul convention, but the Government have yet to this legislation, because the harm caused by these threats ratify it. Under that convention, a person could not be is immeasurable and can have an extremely deep and denied support on the basis of their immigration status. lasting psychological impact on the victims. It is a sinister and cowardly crime. There is a specific amendment that I would ask the Government to reconsider: Lords amendment 42, on I have heard anecdotal stories of communities in monitoring serious and serial perpetrators of domestic which honour plays a big role, and where abusive husbands abuse and stalking. In the other place, my colleague have threatened to disclose intimate images of their Baroness Brinton spoke powerfully from her own awful wives or partners in an attempt to dishonour them in experience about the clear need to strengthen MAPPA order to coercively control and manipulate them. I hope and introduce a register for serious and serial perpetrators that the Bill will go a long way towards letting those of domestic abuse and stalking. That is why Lords women know that this is not okay and that they are not amendment 42 is so important, and we should oppose alone. I thank Baroness Morgan for all the hard work the Government’s attempt to replace it with a much she has done in getting this legislation amended. I also weaker amendment. believe that social media companies need to play their part in fulfilling their responsibility to take down any Tackling domestic abuse must include ensuring that distressing or manipulative images that may be classed the criminal justice system deals with obsessed serial as revenge porn—and swiftly,so that victims are protected. perpetrators properly. I appreciate the Minister’s explanation, and the fact that she sympathises with the I empathise with the intention and spirit of Lords objective of the Lords amendment, but I cannot agree amendment 42. However, I accept the Government’s that there are not sufficient benefits to justify complications. position on this. There is, of course, still more that can There is no complication I can see that is ever too great be done through existing systems and better use of the to justify not increasing protection for any of us at any MAPPA framework. As long as that is possible, the time from anyone. We have already heard numerous objective is the same, and if a way forward can be found moving examples today of the damage done to lives by through non-legislative means, that is certainly worth repeat offenders, and Liberal Democrats do not believe exploring. Of course, as has been said, domestic abuse that the Government’s amendment in lieu goes far doesnotjustendwhentwopartners—twoindividuals—stop enough. We will therefore not support it. living with each other. By improving MAPPA, by improving the information- This Bill speaks to a problem that infects our society sharing processes with different agencies and individuals, and threatens people, mostly women, in every part of the message to those who commit these cowardly acts of the country every day of the year. We are sending a violence, stalking or domestic abuse is very clear: through message today from this place. Let us make it the this legislation, this Government and this House are strongest it can possibly be, so that when the Bill determined that you will feel the full force of the law. reaches the statute book, this landmark legislation is We will come for you and we will not let you get away the strongest it can possibly be. with it. And for the victims of these heinous crimes, the message is simple: you are not alone and we will not let Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con) [V]: I am privileged to you suffer alone. speak in this debate today, and I would like to start by joining in the tribute to Dame Cheryl Gillan. She was 2.15 pm an incredibly kind individual and she will be sorely missed in the House. Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: May I associate myself with the comments today about the This really is a landmark piece of legislation. It shows Duke of Edinburgh and Dame Cheryl Gillan? what the House is truly capable of when it works If we want to tackle violence against women, we need together, and I commend all those who have been to change the conversation. We need to stop asking how involved in bringing the Bill to where it is. we keep women safe and start asking how we stop the Over the past year, we have experienced life in a very violence. I pay tribute to the many organisations and different way, often not being able to leave our homes. many Members across the House who have devoted For most of us it has been incredibly difficult, but for time, effort and energy to the Bill and to that victims of domestic abuse the reality has been much conversation—SafeLives, Refuge, Women’s Aid, Southall harsher. Over the past year, victims of domestic abuse Black Sisters, Laura Richards, to name but a few of the have often found themselves trapped by their abuser many.The bitter reality is that whatever political perspective without any space, physical or emotional, between them. we come from, we have all known, in the many years There has been a worrying increase in the demand for that we have worked on this legislation, that it is a once- domestic abuse support, and this has been seen across in-a-lifetime opportunity, because the conversation has 543 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 544
[Stella Creasy] that they are all too often treated as potential criminals first and foremost when they come forward. We need to all too often been about how women should keep not only safeguard them from having their data shared themselves safe, rather than our responsibility to free but give them protection from being exploited full stop, them from harm. and that is what Lords amendment 41 does. There are I welcome the Government’sagreement to many changes contradictions already exposed in this debate. The Minister to this legislation along its journey—just today, we are says in one breath that the key consideration for migrant discussing their acceptance of Lord Kennedy’samendment victims is not their immigration status and then says to stop doctors charging domestic abuse victims for that victims of domestic violence should not have an medical evidence, for example. This also includes the automatic right to status in the UK. She says she needs changes on revenge porn, treating crimes that are motivated more information and claims that the amendments are by misogyny as hate crime and ensuring that the police unnecessary as a result because she is reviewing the act to record how hostility towards someone’s sex or matter. I tell her, as somebody who has had to deal with gender means that women are targeted for assault, these cases in my constituency and who is a big fan of abuse and harassment. However, in the time I have the work that Southall Black Sisters does, that we do today, I want to urge the Minister to go further and not need more reviews and more evidence, because the drop the Government’s opposition to amendments where evidence is painfully already there. we ask a victim to fit a particular box rather than The Minister says there is support, but we know that recognising that they all need our assistance to stop the in 2019, for example, four in five migrant women were violence. turned away from refuges due to their “no recourse to public funds” status. We have seen at first hand the Lords amendments 1 to 3 recognise the abuse of women kept in violent relationships because of their disabled people by paid or unpaid carers. Disabled immigration status. We have given testimony of the women are twice as likely as their non-disabled counterparts culture of fear they experience—fear of not only their to experience abuse, so we seek to support our disabled abuser but the officials who are supposedly there to help sisters from those who are their intimate contacts—people them. we trust to undertake some of the most sensitive acts, whether that is personal care, or emotional or financial I also say, as a former member of the Council of matters. The Minister says that she cannot accept these Europe who had the privilege to serve on it alongside amendments because giving those who are abused by Dame Cheryl Gillan and learn from her in that institution, their carers the protection of the Bill would change the that we cannot ratify the Istanbul convention while we common law understanding of domestic abuse and try to draw a distinction between women in the help somehow dilute the purpose of the legislation, but the they can access. Ministers told us that women in Northern amendment is exactly about changing our understanding Ireland were not treated differently when it came to of abuse, where it happens and who suffers from it. This their reproductive rights, and quite rightly, the Council abuse takes place in a domestic setting and it is the of Europe told them otherwise. It is the same when it result of an intimate relationship. For too long, those comes to drawing a distinction between migrant women affected have been telling us about reviewing their evidence, and whether they can access support for being victims how somehow they have to prove their case and why of domestic abuse. It is long overdue that we ratify the they cannot keep themselves safe through existing Istanbul convention. We cannot let this prevent us from legislation. If we want to stop violence and abuse, we being able to do that. We are one of the few countries need to act and change how we think about domestic left in Europe that has yet to ratify the convention, and abuse accordingly. That is what Lords amendments 1 I ask the Minister to talk to her counterparts in Europe, to 3 do. and to recognise how this will be a barrier to doing that and will leave women at risk in our communities. Many have already spoken about Lords amendment 41, Finally, I turn to Lords amendment 42, another because that ensures that we give migrant victims of matter on which there is much agreement in the House abuse the help that they need to leave abusive relationships, that we need to act. It is the best example among the whatever their status. Without it, the Government are amendments of how we can change the conversation asking us to make a decision on whether to keep a and stop the violence caused by serial perpetrators and victim of violence safe not on whether she is at risk, but stalkers. The Minister tells us that the amendment is not on whether she has the right stamp in her passport. needed, that it is not about the category of an offender There is a speech for another day about the but how MAPPA processes work, and that her proposals dysfunctionalities of the UK Border Agency and its for reform will address that. I understand the point that ability to manage our immigration service, but it is a she is making, and I can see that there is some truth in simple matter of fact that many victims of domestic her argument about how services need to work together, abuse cover the cost of getting support, help and access because the evidence shows time and again that serial to a refuge through their ability to access public assistance. offenders and serial stalkers were left to target women When we deny women access to that assistance due to without intervention. For years, women have lived in their immigration status, we consign them to having no fear and begged for help from the police to protect way out of harm. Indeed, as Refuge pointed out, the them, only to be told that they were being overdramatic. number of survivors of abuse with no recourse to That is not me being overdramatic. Research shows public funds is likely to increase post-Brexit under our how the constant dismissing and downplaying of stalking’s new immigration proposals, so the need to address this serious nature means that, on average, victims of the will become even more pressing. crime do not report to the police until the 100th incident. The Minister said that migrant victims should be Shana Grice was fined for wasting police time before seen as victims first, yet as she can see from the super- she was murdered by her stalker—a man who had been complaint and the evidence that it reveals, the reality is reported by 13 other women for stalking. Alice Ruggles 545 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 546 was murdered by her ex-partner in 2016. The court right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) heard how a restraining order had been taken out by an pointed out. The Government have taken a significant ex-girlfriend of his just three years earlier, but at the step in supporting migrant victims today by announcing point at which Alice was begging the police for help, the scheme to be delivered by Southall Black Sisters. I Northumbria police had no knowledge of that. Janet met them when they gave evidence to the Bill Committee, Scott, Pearl Black, Linah Keza, Maria Stubbings, Kerri and I am confident that they will be successful. McAuley, Molly McLaren, Hollie Gazzard, Justene Reece, Kirsty Treloar, Jane Clough, Linzi Ashton—all Much of what we will discuss this afternoon will be those cases involved serial perpetrators who had been addressed later this year as the Government look at the violent and abusive to other women before they were violence against women and girls consultation. I commend attacked. No one joined the dots. No one asked whether the Government for acting fast and reopening that they were at risk and acted. These women were sitting consultation in the wake of the horrific murder of ducks. That is the system that the Minister is defending Sarah Everard. It is extremely positive that so many today. more contributions were made to that consultation. The right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) While I have the Minister’s ear, I want to press again says that putting someone’s name on a list does not the need to do something about cyber-flashing—spreading make a difference. Frankly, I disagree. It means that we indecent images using mobile devices on an unsolicited can finally hold the police, not the victims, to account, basis. That happens often on public transport. I was because they would have direct accountability for the once flashed by a man on a night out in Cardiff. I could management of their behaviour. It makes stalking have had him arrested, because doing it in person is a something that the police have to recognise in its own criminal offence, but if a person digitally exposes right as something they need to stop, rather than something themselves unsolicited, it is currently not the same that women have to prove and manage. I pay tribute offence. That needs to change. No one should be made to the work that Laura Richards has done tirelessly to to feel alarmed, distressed or intimidated as a result of expose the situation and fight for these changes and to being sent an unsolicited explicit photo. With so many Baroness Royall, Baroness Newlove and Lord Russell more of our young people living their lives online with for their work in the other place on this issue. their own mobile phones, we need to put a stop to We know that this Bill has been a marathon, but we cyber-flashing. are asking the Minister to keep going that extra mile, to use this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, to stop trying to I briefly want to mention the case of Ruth Dodsworth. defend the indefensible and the status quo, to change For those of us in Wales, she is a very familiar face. She the conversation so that we can stop the violence and is a TV and weather presenter on ITV Wales. Yesterday, not allow perpetrators of these crimes to use the her ex-husband was jailed for three years after making loopholes—those that the amendments would close—to her life a misery for nine long years. He was verbally continue the abuse. The evidence base is already there. abusive and physically violent. He followed her to work, It just needs the political will to act. I say to the House put a tracker on her car, and even used her fingerprints that if the Minister will not listen, we must, and we to open her phone while she was sleeping to read its must vote for the amendments. contents. Every day, Ruth went to work and read the weather forecast in a sunny, positive manner, completely Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con): I join concealing the horror that she was facing at home. I colleagues in their tributes to Dame Cheryl Gillan. I raise that point not only to praise Ruth’s bravery and knew her for 20 years, from her role as shadow Secretary incredible courage but to remind victims everywhere of State and later as Secretary of State for Wales. I am that they do not have to put a smile on their face, so very sorry she has gone; she would have made a pretend they are okay and get on with it. The police and fantastic speech today. the criminal justice system are there to support them It was an honour to sit on the Domestic Abuse Bill when they come forward. Ruth’s case shows that this is Committee last year. I am extremely proud that we have not something that is happening in the shadows to managed to prioritise this vital piece of legislation at women we do not know. We all know a victim of this time. It will empower victims, communities and domestic abuse, whether we know it or not. This Bill is professionals to confront and challenge domestic abuse, landmark legislation that will go a significant way to and above all to provide victims with the support they protecting the estimated 2.4 million victims of domestic deserve. abuse each year. I wish it swift passage through these Houses. I commend the Minister for her efforts in this area and the shadow Minister, who talked about the spirit Before I close, I want to single out the work that has with which this Bill was forged. She is absolutely right been going on in my local area in Powys. I particularly that it has been made stronger all the way along by applaud Powys County Council’s children’s services. Members on both sides of the House, and I very much Recently, I met its head of service, Jan Coles, and she welcome that. I welcome the Government’s support for talked me through the outstanding work it has been some of the amendments that were laid in the other doing to support children victims of domestic abuse. place. They will create a standalone offence of non-fatal That work has obviously been made so much more strangulation, extend the coercive and controlling behaviour difficult during the recent pandemic, and I want to put offence to post-separation abuse and criminalise threats on the record my thanks for what it has done. Powys to share intimate images. was one of the first local authorities to quickly get I also support the Government in opposing Lords vulnerable children into school hubs at the same time as amendment 41. I believe that, as worded, it could risk key worker children, and I commend the council for further exploitation of vulnerable individuals, as my that effort. 547 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 548
[Fay Jones] says that the offence is initiated by consent. I understand as a matter of law and principle why that is, but we need Finally, I thank all the brave survivors and tireless to be realistic about what the offence looks like. First, organisations who have given evidence during the passage we know that it is occurring frequently, and we know of the Bill. This Bill is stronger because of them. I give that it occupies a sprawling kind of grey area. As the it my full support, and I am proud to have played a very Centre for Women’s Justice put it, there is small part in it. “growing pressure on young women to consent to violent, dangerous and demeaning acts”, 2.30 pm such as strangulation, most likely Laura Farris (Newbury) (Con): I would also like to … pay tribute to the great Cheryl Gillan, an inspirational “due to the widespread availability and use of extreme pornography.” and supportive colleague whose presence is felt very Without proper training from the Judicial College, it is strongly on this side of the House. The Bill returns to us easy to see how the defence could be used to lead to an in different and better shape from how it left us. The acquittal. amendments do not just add content, but expand the Very often, perhaps always,the victim will have consented framework through which domestic abuse in all its to sex in the first place. She may on a previous occasion insidious complexity is understood. It is something that have consented to strangulation or something like it may well outlive the relationship. I have seen through under duress or a desire to please, and by the time she work I have done with a particular constituent of mine reports it to the police, she may not have very strong that coercive or controlling behaviour can live long after evidence of physical injury. We know from precedent, the couple have stopped living under the same roof. such as the Samuel Price case in 2015 on very similar The Bill recognises that the threat of certain forms of facts, that her history will be used against her in abuse can be as pernicious as the act itself. I pay tribute to evidence and will be relevant. Judicial training is imperative my hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards) so that a case founded on these facts is not destined to for the beautiful way she expressed the shame and fail. humiliation that lies at the heart of revenge porn, which is an offence irrespective of whether the threat is actually Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) carried out. The amendments provide protection against (Lab) [V]: I would also like to associate myself with sexual violence that does not depend on any particular colleagues’ remarks about the sadness of the passing of relationship status. The measures on revenge porn and His Royal Highness the Prince Philip, our dear colleague non-fatal strangulation and the prohibition on the rough Dame Cheryl Gillan and of course Baroness Shirley sex defence are all examples of that, and I pay tribute to Williams in the other place, and I send my sincere Baroness Newlove for succeeding where we failed. condolences to their families and friends. The Bill has evolved in part into a very significant I will be supporting the Lords amendments to this body of law on sexual violence. It says to women, “It important Bill tonight. That we should need a Domestic doesn’t matter if he is your husband or just someone Abuse Bill is a sad indictment of our society, but the that you met on Tinder. If he tries to choke you, that is facts speak for themselves. In England and Wales, two a crime. If he tries to silence you by saying that he will women a week will die at the hands of their partner, share images of you online, that is a crime. If he hurts ex-partner or a family member. Yes, domestic abuse you, whether through choking or anything else, and says affects men as well, but most abuse is directed at women. that you were up for it, that will not work; it is a crime.” Seventy-three years on from the commitment to universal This Bill comes at a very important moment in a human rights, which declared that national conversation we are having. We know such “All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and things are happening because of the countless women rights”— who have submitted their stories to the campaign group We Can’t Consent To This in the past 18 months, that women are equal to men—our fundamental rights detailing terrifying sexual violence in intimate encounters, to life are being denied by too many. and the more than 14,000 young women who have This violence against women and girls in a domestic submitted anonymous testimonies on “Everyone’sInvited”, or wider setting has context. For some, girl babies are in particular describing the sharing of online images. seen as less important than boy babies, and daughters Then there are the 40% of young women who told the who are deemed to have shamed their families are BBC in 2019 that they had experienced unwanted punished, sometimes fatally. Too many still see their strangulation. What we have heard time and time again wives and daughters as chattels, and too many justify is that they just thought it was normal. They did not rape on how women dress. Our right to an education, to think that they could report it. For now, these changes marry whom we wish, to work in whatever job we meet that challenge and give women a route to justice in wish—limited only by our abilities, not by prejudice and respect of these crimes. discrimination—and to be paid equally for that work I want to speak briefly on judicial training. I start by still elude us. If we want to stop violence against women, reminding the House of what the Court of Appeal said including in the home, we need a cultural change. about that in an appeal it heard on domestic abuse Society needs to stop paying lip service to women’s about a fortnight ago. It said that while domestic abuses rights and to treat women equally in every aspect of life, are often not “crystal clear”, where there is detailed and this culture change requires leadership. guidance on judicial training, the number of appeals In addition to the cultural context, if we are going to tends to be smaller. try to prevent domestic abuse, we also need to recognise I would like to talk about judicial training in the its drivers, including socioeconomic conditions. Yesterday, context of non-fatal strangulation, which is something I at the Work and Pensions Committee, we heard evidence have raised with Lord Wolfson. Subsection (2) of clause 72 that, although domestic abuse happens in all walks of 549 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 550 life, being under financial pressure is associated with an Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): I, too, would like increased risk of abuse. Poverty cannot be decoupled to pay tribute to Dame Cheryl Gillan. She gave me and from abuse; it is both a cause and a consequence. so many others much support and encouragement on our journeys to this place, and she is an inspiration to The lack of provision in the Bill to address wider us all. cultural issues and the socioeconomic context associated with abuse were discussed at a recent Oldham roundtable It is a privilege to speak in this important debate, and looking at the impacts of covid on domestic abuse over it was an honour to sit on the Domestic Abuse Bill the last year. In addition to these gaps, I noted with Committee last year. I commend Ministers and Members some concern that the detection of abuse at community on both sides of the House for the hard work behind level did not translate into incidents reported to the the Bill. As we focus on the recent Lords amendments police.Reflecting national patterns during the first lockdown to the Bill, it is important that we remember that we are in Oldham, the average number of cases at MARAC debating the finer detail of a Bill that will, as it already doubled every fortnight and the numbers of children on stands, deliver a radical change to the way that domestic child protection plans following domestic abuse concerns abuse is defined and legislated against. increased by 41%, but this was not reflected in the Not only does the Bill extend the definition of domestic numbers of domestic abuse incidents reported to the abuse to include coercive and controlling behaviour, but police, which has remained fairly static at about 400 a it extends the definition of those who suffer to include month. This obviously suggests that domestic abuse has children. For thousands of adults in the UK, the abuse been under-reported and that there is an increased they witnessed as a child will have had a profound and problem of hidden abuse,as colleagues have been discussing long-lasting effect. Many suffer deep trauma from the as we have been going along. verbal, emotional and financial abuse they witnessed as children, which was perpetrated on and by the people The concerns raised in Oldham about the provisions they trusted to be their primary carers. in the Bill were particularly related to the issues, first, of victims with complex needs; secondly, of victims with What we see and experience at an early age forms the no recourse to public funds; and finally, of the practical basis of our future expectations, our own patterns of implementation of the Bill and its funding mechanisms. behaviour, and our health and wellbeing outcomes. It is On victims with complex needs, including disabled people devastating, therefore, to be exposed to any kind of or people with a mental health condition, there were abuse, including controlling and coercive behaviour, in concerns, on top of the shortage of refuge places ordinarily, our formative years. Studies have shown that children about the new duty to support a victim in safe who witness domestic abuse often have the same poor accommodation and the availability of appropriately life outcomes as those who are actually abused. They adapted or supported safe accommodation. Basically, have the same likelihood of developing post-traumatic there are not enough places. I would also like to support stress disorder as soldiers returning from war. They are my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley also more likely to experience stress-related physical (Jess Phillips) and other colleagues who have been raising illnesses and mental health problems throughout their the disappointment regarding the Government’s position lives, and they are more likely to exhibit health-damaging on abuse of disabled women by their carers and the lack behaviours such as smoking and drug-taking. Crucially, of the support for the Lords amendments on this, which they are two to three times more likely to attempt we think is very short-sighted. suicide. I also echo colleagues’ remarks concerning the Lords Charities such as Gorwel in my constituency see amendments to address the lack of support for women those issues time and time again. In addition to providing with no recourse to public funds—predominantly but refuges and support for men and women who are direct not exclusively migrant women. Currently, the destitution victims of domestic abuse, it offers specialist provision domestic violence concession scheme is a lengthy and for children and young people who are dealing with the bureaucratic process, leaving these women in limbo, effects of domestic abuse. However, it can only do so often without access to the support they need, and we much. As a result of the Bill broadening the definition need to change that. of domestic abuse, we can improve the lives of not just the children of today but the adults of tomorrow. That On the practicalities of implementing the Bill, there is why the Bill is so important and why I commend the are concerns that the timescales for local authorities hard work that has gone into ensuring that it is fit for will be challenging in the context of an ongoing pandemic, purpose and serves the needs of the adults and children particularly in regard to the requirements to have local of the UK. strategies in place by August and to spend budget allocations by April 2022. Similarly, there is concern Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab) [V]: The Domestic that funding will be skewed towards services around the Abuse Bill provides an opportunity to deliver narrowly defined duty for local authorities, at the expense transformational change in tackling domestic abuse of other essential support services, and that needs to be and violence, and many of the Lords amendments, addressed. Given the timescales, local authorities will which I wish to support today, strengthen it considerably. need to commit funding in advance of the strategic Sadly, domestic abuse and violence remain endemic framework being ready, and they may not be able to in this country, while unmet need remains a problem. spend the full allocation within this year. I hope that the Services have suffered under austerity, and one in six Minister will also be able to address those remarks in refuges in the UK have closed since 2010, while demand her closing statement. has increased, especially during the pandemic. Welsh The Bill is a good move forward, but supporting the Women’sAid has shown that there has been a 32% increase Lords amendments could make it even stronger, and I in referrals to community-based support in the last hope colleagues will support it. year. Having worked in women’s refuges and with the 551 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 552
[Beth Winter] are right to resist Lords amendments 1 to 3 to expand the application of the Bill to include paid and unpaid victims of domestic abuse, I have witnessed the devasting carers, we need to acknowledge that the Bill is not the impact this has on people’s lives—on women of all ages same as it started out and that that is because of how and backgrounds, on their children, and on families, we have seen and been appalled by the way in which friends and communities. I have seen how severe funding violence affects women’s lives. constraints hamper the development of effective services. We have an opportunity in this Bill to ensure that I pay tribute to the excellent work carried out by Women’s women and girls know that they do not have to suffer Aid in my constituency, despite these challenges. abusive behaviour without having the support of the criminal justice system, but we also need the Government 2.45 pm to make sure that there is consistency across all elements I strongly support Lords amendment 40, which would of Government policy in this respect; when it comes to allow immigrants without leave to remain in the UK to schools, online and workplaces, we have to make sure safely report domestic abuse without the threat of that Government strategy reflects that there is no place immigration control. This amendment is crucial in order to anywhere in our society for abuse and violence against overcome the reluctance and fear that migrant women women. I hope that the Minister, whom I know feels have to access services.I also support Lords amendment 41, this as strongly as I do, will make sure that this is which would grant these survivors temporary leave to reflected in the new strategy that she puts forward for remain and access to public funds while they flee abuse the Government in the coming months, because at the and resolve their immigration status,and Lords amendment moment there are inconsistencies there and that is confusing 43, which would require that all victims of domestic and undermining for women. abuse receive equally effective protection and support, I welcome the approach that the Government and regardless of their status, including migrants and groups particularly the Minister have taken and the spirit of sharing a protected characteristic status, such as older collaboration and co-operation across the House, which or younger victims, disabled people, ethnic minorities is important on an issue such as this. This Bill is not and LGBTQ victims. The provision is drafted in line about what the Conservative or Labour party thinks; it with article 4(3) of the Istanbul convention, which the is about what society thinks about women’s roles. That Government are committed to ratifying. is hugely important when it comes to what my right hon. I am also pleased to support Lords amendments 47 Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) said and 48, which acknowledge the authority of the Senedd about how the Bill will only be of benefit if the police in Wales and prevent the Secretary of State from and judiciary put it into practice. In demonstrating that undermining the devolution agreements. I wish to make this is an issue that society feels strongly about and that a further reference to the situation in Wales, as I feel transcends individual party interests, we demonstrate Wales can be held up as a beacon of good practice. We that what they have to embed, not just in their training already have the Violence against Women, Domestic systems but in their culture and ethos, is that violence Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015 in place, against women is not acceptable in our society. and it was accompanied by a national strategy in 2016. I commend the co-operative approach that the Together, they set out measures to improve prevention, Government have taken, which I certainly saw when I protection and the provision of support, to tackle domestic chaired the Joint Committee scrutinising the Bill—which abuse, taking a multi-agency and collaborative approach. now feels like a lifetime ago. Indeed, the Government So I respectfully suggest that yet again Wales is ahead of addressed almost all the Committee’s recommendations. the game and England can learn from us. However, the In considering the more than 80 amendments today, we good work already done is hampered by a decade of should not forget how far the Bill has taken us in cuts from central Government. Women’s Aid estimates making the culture change that we need to see, through that £393 million is needed for domestic abuse services establishing a commissioner,having the definition, stopping annually. We need secure, sustainable, long-term funding cross-examination by perpetrators and providing access from central Government, and this includes reversing to special measures. These things cannot be taken for the 41% real-terms cut in legal aid expenditure on civil granted, which is why we need to get the Bill on the domestic violence cases since 2012. Therefore, alongside statute book in its own right. We need those things to this Bill and these Lords amendments, I call for those start to happen, rather than just continuing to talk resources to be made available, so that the effective about them. That is why I hope this is the last debate we protection and support is available to all victims of have on the Bill. domestic abuse. I wish to speak in favour of two amendments that the Government are taking on board today. The first is Mrs Miller: May I again associate myself with the Lords amendment 35, which concerns the disclosure of remarks about the passing of Prince Philip and of our private intimate images. As other hon. and right hon. wonderful colleague Cheryl Gillan? Members have said, it recognises a crime—the threat to This Bill was announced four years ago, and two publish private and intimate images—that has an appalling generations later—sorry, two general elections later; it impact on those affected. I pay tribute to Refuge and its feels like two generations— we are on the cusp of it “The Naked Threat” campaign, but let us ponder what going on to the statute book. It is important to think my hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Ruth Edwards) about the time and the perspective, and to try to understand said. She reminded us that one in seven women have how the Bill’s evolution reflects the very much broader experienced a threat to share an image in this way. way society now understands the many forms of violence I fear that this will only become an increasing problem, against women. Although I completely agree with the because we have failed to tell young people that they Minister that we cannot dilute the focus of this Bill should not share intimate images of themselves—that it from that specifically about domestic violence, and we is against the law and that they might never be able to 553 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 554 remove them from the internet for the rest of their lives. determine whether the pilot has been successful? How We have failed to tell them that. In speaking in support will it be rolled out? It is there to find more information, of Lords amendment 35, I also urge the Minister to because the Government felt there was insufficient evidence ensure that we tell young people, in our newly mandatory to shape a policy in this area, but we really need to see sex and relationship education—which, after 20 years from the Government more details about how the scheme, of debate, has been on the statute book effectively since when it ends in 12 months’ time, will be evaluated and last September—that they cannot share such images. It then taken forward. We cannot allow ourselves to be is against the law and is not a normal part of growing continually in the situation where we do not know how up. We have still not landed that message. to put in place a long-term scheme to support migrant My hon. Friend’s constituent Natasha’s story was women who find themselves in this situation. I hope the from an adult’s perspective, but there will be hundreds Minister might at least be able to indicate today when and thousands of young women, and men, listening to we can expect to get more information and more detail. this debate who are also living in fear of intimate Maybe she could provide a briefing to those of us who images being released that they know that others have. follow these issues very closely. This is a ticking time bomb and something that I hope In conclusion, the Bill was framed as a gateway to the my hon. Friend on the Front Bench and other Ministers ratification of the Istanbul convention. That is important will address even more directly in the online harms Bill because, as one hon. Member mentioned, we need to and in response to the Law Commission’s long overdue get ratification of the Istanbul convention. I hope that consultation on intimate image abuse, which will look once the Bill goes on to the statute book that is what not only at the publication of such images but at issues will happen—again, maybe the Minister will want to such as cyber-flashing, which my hon. Friend the Member comment on that. The Bill is another clear sign of the for Brecon and Radnorshire (Fay Jones) mentioned. Government’s commitment to helping to tackle the The other amendment that I want briefly to speak in culture of violence towards women in this country, but support of is Lords amendment 36, which concerns there is much more to do, especially in the online world, non-fatal strangulation. As Chair of the Women and and we need to keep going with our efforts to stop Equalities Committee and the Joint Committee on the violence against girls and women around the world. We Bill, I have heard various evidence from young people need to make sure we keep our focus on this very under the age of 18 about how strangulation had become significant issue. By having this debate in the House of a routine part of their sexual experiences. I do not think Commons today, we are showing that abuse is no longer we can overestimate the seriousness of this issue at all. I something that will be tolerated in this country and that go back to my message to the Minister about telling there is no place for violence against women at all. With young people that it is unlawful. Strangulation, simulated this Bill, we will be adding yet another important piece strangulation or semi-strangulation is not part of a of legislation to the statute books to ensure that women normal loving relationship. If we do not tell young are safer in their day-to-day lives in our country. people that and they still have considerable access to extreme pornography, then we cannot expect anything to happen with regard to tackling the aggression rather 3 pm than simply punishing the offenders. Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): I echo colleagues’ The one hanging thread that remains from our Joint comments and put on the record that my thoughts are Committee inquiry into and scrutiny of the Bill is the with the royal family and the friends and family of individuals who have no recourse to public funds. That Dame Cheryl Gillan at this difficult time. was not addressed at all when we scrutinised the Bill in It is crystal clear that the Bill on the whole is extremely Committee and it is, correctly, an issue we need to welcome. The strength of feeling across the country is debate today. We need to get it right, and I just want that it has genuine potential to transform lives. It was a to press the Minister a little further on it. No one wants privilege to sit on the Bill Committee last year and I am to create a system that has the unintended consequence proud of just how far the Bill in its current form has for migrant women of potentially putting them into a come. situation where they could be subject to further abuse as a result of the way our system of support works. As the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on When we took evidence, the Joint Committee saw perpetrators of domestic abuse, I welcome with open that there were very strong views on both sides on the arms the Government’s recent short-term investments support that would be in place for migrant women in in perpetrator work. What remains crucial, however, is particular. We took very strong evidence that said that a for the Government to publish a comprehensive perpetrator complete firewall was not always in the best interests of strategy that addresses all the gaps identified in the data and not always in the best interests of victims. We debate in the other place. That strategy must be driven made a recommendation that there should be a much by the data. more robust Home Office policy on the use of firewalls At the moment, with current practices, we have no and data in separating policy and practice with regard real idea about the true extent of the number of women to support on immigration control. losing their lives at the hands of a known perpetrator. The Minister has introduced a way forward on that Lords amendment 42 is utterly crucial if we are to get a with the pilot scheme she announced, the support for real assessment of the extent of the issue. By forcing the migrant victims scheme, but I feel we need more detail. Government to provide a comprehensive perpetrator We need to understand what will happen as a result of strategy for domestic abusers and stalkers within one the pilot. Will £1.5 million be sufficient funding for the year of the Domestic Abuse Bill being passed, we will number of women who find themselves in a situation be able to improve the identification, assessment and where they are suffering domestic abuse yet have no management of perpetrators to ensure a more co-ordinated recourse to support? What metrics will be used to approach to data collection across England and Wales. 555 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 556
[Alex Davies-Jones] Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con): This is a very important Bill. In April last year, I made my maiden That is critical to tackling domestic abuse in all its speech during the Bill’s Second Reading debate and forms. Without an accurate picture, it is undeniable that talked about my passion for supporting those who need cases will continue to fall through the net. It is utterly it the most. Many Members from different parties have shameful that we live in a country where one woman is explained how far the Bill has come over the years, and killed by a partner, ex-partner or family member every it is important that changes have been made. I am proud three days. Many of these perpetrators of violence have to support the Bill as it will protect and give new rights a history of abuse. to victims. A multi-agency approach to managing risk is central The Minister said in Committee that more than to our ability to getting to grips with this crisis. As my 2.4 million people are not safe in their own home and right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract are subjected to scarring abuse. That is a huge figure and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) said, only a few weeks and I am glad that the Government have responded to ago, peers in the other place overwhelmingly voted for the voices of victims with this Bill, which is set to the plan to add convicted serial domestic abusers and transform millions of lives. I thank everybody who has stalkers to a high-risk offenders register. There is an shared their personal experiences and contributed to obvious need and a desire for police forces and specialist the Bill. agencies to have the tools to allow them to have a cohesiveapproachtopreventingperpetratorsfromoffending Before I go any further, I wish to acknowledge the again, but also to protect victims going forward. Lords work of my local victim support services in Hyndburn amendment 42, passed in the Lords, has the incredible police and the Hyndburn and Ribble Valley domestic potential to do just that, yet today Ministers are calling violence team. These organisations have given a lifeline on MPs to vote to drop those plans. to domestic abuse victims in my constituency, as statistics continue to show the prevalence of domestic violence in Sadly, we all know the horrendous stories, we have all households across the country. I speak regularly to seen the headlines and we all know those women. The Debbie who runs the Emily Davison Centre in my hard truth is that simply too often women are losing constituency. She has told me some harrowing stories their lives at the hands of a perpetrator who has a and how covid has exasperated domestic abuse in homes. history of abusive behaviour. That is an utterly shameful The centre has had to completely adapt the services that reality. I find it incomprehensible that the Government it provides and it is now much more about wraparound are failing to support action against serial abusers, who care. often pose the most serious risk of violence to women and girls. I agree with the sentiments behinds all the Lords There is no proper system for identifying these amendments, and I am pleased to see that the Government perpetrators, no system to monitor them and no system have accepted amendments such as Lords amendment 36 to centralise vital data that can assist in managing the and Lords amendment 35, on what we know as revenge risks and odds of abuse occurring when making initial porn and the sharing of private images. Just the thought risk assessments. I struggle to see how that can still be of being in that position, especially in professional the case when we have known for years just how deeply positions—we will have seen and heard about that. It is rooted violence against women and girls and domestic hard to think that somebody could share an image and abuse are in this country. then everything that a person has worked for is gone, due to that one action by somebody who, in a lot of I pay tribute to campaigners such as Laura Richards, cases, that person will have previously loved, thinking it a former violent crime analyst for the Met police and would never happen to them. the founder of the Paladin National Stalking Advocacy Service. She has been fighting for legislation covering I welcome the Minister’s comments about the strategy monitoring arrangements for serial and high-harm domestic review and the need for reform, and I welcome the abuse and stalking perpetrators for years, and this is our support scheme for migrant victims, although, like my chance to make that happen. right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller), I would like the Minister to address specifically what it Domestic abuse is not inevitable, it is not something will look like. That is important for us all. new and it is possible to prevent. Lords amendment 42 is a vital step forward, yet I find myself today facing a The Bill goes beyond previous definitions of domestic Government who just do not seem to get it. The Minister abuse and highlights the harrowing impact of emotional made some interesting remarks on the amendment in and coercive abuse. The definition is in place for victims her opening contribution. She mentioned that the who felt that their concerns were not legitimate when Government have concerns about the complexities of they were criticised by their partner and who were made adding to the existing multi-agency public protection to believe that the problem was always their fault. The arrangements, but surely she must recognise that, if the Bill reinforces the rights of victims and shows perpetrators Government’s hesitancy is about logistical challenges, that they cannot get away with physical or emotional as opposed to statutory frameworks, that opens some abuse anymore. As I have said previously, we are now important questions about the Government’s ability to joining together to say that it is absolutely not okay. apply seriously the intricacies of the Bill in practice. I got into politics to help those who have no voice and I am grateful for the honest assessment in recognising this landmark Bill does just that. I am proud of the that there is more that the Home Office can do to difference that the Government are making, with this improve arrangements, but I urge MPs to vote to keep Bill, to the lives of people across the UK, and I am Lords amendment 42 in the Bill and not to agree with proud of the cross-party support that we have seen as the Government motion to reject the amendment. we have moved through all its stages. I have not been 557 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 558 around for all the Bill’s stages, but I have seen that that abuse, I cannot over-emphasise how, quite literally, life support has done tremendous work in making the Bill changing and life saving this support and solidarity can what it is today. be. That is why it has truly been a privilege to be able to stand in this House and participate in the process of Apsana Begum (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab) [V]: I making the protections in this groundbreaking piece of speak in support of the amendments passed by the legislation a reality. We can never stop our work in this Lords that seek to protect those suffering from all forms area until no one has to go through what I have and of domestic abuse, regardless of factors such as their what so many of us continue to be subjected to. This is age and immigration status. The no-recourse-to-public- why the amendments passed by this House, and by the funds condition means that migrant victims face an House of Lords in particular, are so vital. Accordingly, increased risk of abuse, with limited support services to I really urge the House to do the right thing today. which to turn. That is whyI support the Lords amendments that would ensure that support is provided to people Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): It is a great regardless of their immigration status. honour to speak in this debate and to follow two moving and passionate speeches from my hon. Friend Today, the Minister announced £1.5 million of funds the Member for Hyndburn (Sara Britcliffe) and the for an immediate-support programme targeted at migrant hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Apsana Begum). women. She mentioned data collection for the programme But can I first pay tribute to three former colleagues in order to potentially inform a more sustainable future who have so recently died? Earlier this week we paid our programme. Many migrant victims will be asking whether tributes to His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh, they should come forward to receive help from this but, today, I want to pay tribute to Dame Cheryl Gillan, Government-funded programme; what kind of data on the right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham, the support they receive will be collected; and whether and the former hon. Members for East Surrey, Peter the risk of immigration enforcement and deportation Ainsworth, and for West Gloucestershire, Paul Marland. is the same, if not higher. All three were, in their own ways, colleagues of the Furthermore, questions remain as to what assurances greatest fun and compassion in doing serious work. there will be that the pilot will believe migrant women’s Dame Cheryl in particular I want to thank for the experiences of abuse and that they will not be seen advice she gave me when I joined our party board. Peter through a lens of suspicion. Many are perceived as Ainsworth, who I have known since university, was a exaggerating their experiences of abuse and even accused man of wide talents who played an important role after of lying to be granted indefinite leave to remain. All this leaving this place in the Big Lottery and the Churches is against the backdrop of an increasingly inaccessible Conservation Trust. He was the only member of the and restrictive immigration system. shadow Cabinet to vote against the Iraq war. Paul If we can recognise that abusers threaten to inform Marland, who was the first Conservative MP for West authorities and exploit fears of deportation, why cannot Gloucestershire and represented that constituency, which we recognise the fear that victims have in coming forward neighbours my constituency of Gloucester, for 18 years to seek help? Perpetrators use such systems to perpetuate should give everybody who aspires to be in politics the their control. The HMICFRS, the College of Policing belief that, if you can keep trying, you will succeed, for and the Independent Office for Police Conduct said he succeeded at the fourth attempt. only last year that police forces should restrict the Turning now to this incredibly important Bill, the sharing of information about vulnerable victims of Domestic Abuse Bill, I cannot help but note today crime, such as in cases of domestic abuse, with immigration the number of speakers who have recognised, first, the enforcement, because the current system has been causing importance of the Bill and, secondly, that the Bill has significant harm to the public. The Government need to got better, as the right hon. Member for Normanton, address that now,because addressing this means recognising Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) spelled out migrant victims for the victims that they are where they clearly. It is worth recognising how long work on this are. Bill has gone on for. My right hon. Friend the Member It is positive that there is now a recognition that the for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) briefly suggested that the harm caused by domestic abuse is far-reaching and work first started two generations ago, rather than two that, in order for us to fight it, there must be a co-ordinated general elections ago, which is what she meant. It probably response across a variety of Government Departments. feels like that for the Ministers and those on the Bill I do welcome the Government accepting amendments Committee who have been involved. It has been a huge on areas such as the prohibition of charging for GP amount of work. letters, but these concessions must be seen in the context of the Government continuing to strip away provision 3.15 pm after provision, benefit after benefit, community space I pay particular tribute to the two Ministers who have after community space, so support for those in need been most closely involved—the Under-Secretary of continues to weaken. State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the As chair of the all-party group on domestic violence Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), and abuse, I pay tribute to the tireless work of those and the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. who have gone before me, my predecessor in the chair, Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk)—but my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley there have been others too. I pay tribute to all those (Jess Phillips), and the many campaigners who have involved, on both sides of the House, for the importance fought with such bravery and determination to stand up of what they are doing. against domestic abuse and injustice, empowering people It is important that men speak in this debate too. who, for too long, have had no voice, with support and There is a danger of people thinking that the Domestic rights—people like myself. As a survivor of domestic Abuse Bill is only about women and that only women 559 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 560 should speak. It is incredibly important that those of us Gazzard Trust, and he believes there is a need for a who are very conscious of domestic abuse issues should separate register for serial offenders to make sure that speak, and that constituents and people in our own prolific and serious abusers are visible to various offices and families who have had problems and been organisations. victims of domestic abuse can be represented by men on I will have a separate consultation with Nick Gazzard this issue as well as by female Members. about this, because I think it is perfectly possible—the There is, of course, a hazard of a Bill such as this—that Minister for Crime and Policing is in his place on the it might attract all sorts of other things that are not Front Bench and may be able to comment on this—for strictly to do with domestic abuse. One Member referred police constabularies to make sure that they add the to the fact that there was nothing on stalking; another names of serial or prolific domestic abuse offenders to referred to issues about abuse by carers of people with the risk offender list and that it is not necessarily disabilities. Those are incredibly important issues, but essential to have a separate list. It is vital to try to they are not within the scope of the Bill. address this point, which Nick Gazzard has made in the However, as we have heard today, amendments have wake of the tragic murder of his daughter: various been made that definitely improve the Bill. For example, organisations must be able to see the names of serial my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst high-risk offenders to try to make sure that there are (Sir Robert Neill) made an important point about what fewer incidents in future. I hope the Minister will comment a difference Lords amendment 36, on non-fatal on that at the end of the debate. strangulation, will make. Measures have been taken to Let me finish by saying that if one hazard of all ban the rough sex defence, and against revenge legislation is that all sorts of other issues are laden on to pornography—an offence unknown when I left university a specific Bill, another is that a Bill can be lost at the but one very much known to my children as they leave end of a parliamentary Session. We have heard today university. from a number of speakers on the Opposition Benches Those measures are incredibly welcome, as are new about how good this Bill largely is: the hon. Member for protections for children, and the important measure to Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) protect victims of domestic abuse after the perpetrator specifically described it as a good Bill and the hon. left the shared home. I know of one case where a court Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) acknowledged order has banned someone from any contact with his how far the Bill has come. It would be an absolute previous partner, but they live in the same part of tragedy if at this late stage of the Parliament the Bill Gloucestershire, where there is only one supermarket. were lost. Almost inevitably, there is a risk of them bumping into I therefore urge Opposition Members, both in this each other in that place. It is very difficult to implement and their lordships’ House, who approve of much, if a court order of that kind in some places. not all, of what is in the Bill already, to make sure that it The other thing the Government should be given is not lost. That would let down victims who can see credit for is the business of reopening the consultation hope and would give comfort only to perpetrators—exactly in the wake of the horrific death of Sarah Everard. The what we would not wish to see. I will support the Bill huge number of contributions to that consultation, and and I encourage all Members to do so. the number of people who had stories that they wanted to share, were surely a reminder to us all of how Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC) [V]: important the issue of domestic abuse is. I think we will Diolch yn fawr Madam Ddirprwy Lefarydd. I, too, all have benefited from understanding the strength of would be very grateful for the opportunity to pay tribute public feeling on this issue. to Dame Cheryl Gillan. She was of course a former There are lots of good things here. There are two Secretary of State for Wales, and when I first arrived in things, however, that I would very much like the Minister, the House in 2015 I personally found her very keen and when she winds up the debate, to respond to. The first is very supportive of cross-party working. It was a pleasure on Lords amendment 41, which I think I am right in and honour to work with her. saying was originally tabled in their lordships’ House as I am, of course, pleased that this vital legislation has amendment 70 in the name of Bishop Rachel of Gloucester. nearly completed its passage through the House and the There are very few times when I remotely wish to other place. It has been an extremely interesting learning disagree with my own bishop, who is making a huge experience over two general elections for me as well, difference to her diocese, but on this, I am led to believe with the Joint Committees working on this. The issue of by the Minister that the pilot projects that have started domestic violence has come into sharp focus in the will be rolled out further across the country, and that public mind following the deaths of Sarah Everard, there is a clear intent—both in the Bill and in the Wenjing Lin and others, and it is right to acknowledge Departments involved—that anyone who suffers domestic that the Bill represents a positive step forward in addressing abuse, whatever their immigration status, will be protected the deep-rooted reality of domestic violence in society. and given all the support that is needed, but that that is separate from the issue of whether someone has the First, I want to welcome the Government’s support right to remain. I would be grateful if the Minister for a number of Lords amendments—including especially could confirm what will happen to the pilot projects. Lords amendment 32, which seeks to reduce coercive Secondly, on amendment 42, several speakers today— control and vexatious activities in the family courts. I including, I believe, the shadow Minister—referred to am glad to say I was able to raise this issue in my Courts the tragic death of young hairdresser Hollie Gazzard in (Abuse of Process) Bill back in 2017. my constituency some years ago: a case about which I As for the rest of the amendments, a key concern of know more than I ever imagined. I managed to check mine and many others has already been mentioned with her father, Nick Gazzard, who now runs the Hollie today: the monitoring of offenders and the effectiveness 561 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 562 of the multi-agency public protection arrangements. I I urge the Government to support the Lords amendments tabled an early amendment for a domestic abuse register and enact the ambitious and transformational change and am pleased that Lords amendment 42 follows in the needed to shift the focus and balance in favour of the same vein. As Baroness Brinton said in the other place needs and welfare of victims, so that we can consign about MAPPA, there is some very good practice but it domestic abuse to the history books across the UK. is not consistent because the agencies are not being forced to work together. The impact that is having on David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) victims is appalling. (Con) [V]: I support this Bill because it is an opportunity The Government need to evidence how exactly their to make a real difference to the lives of those affected by changes to MAPPAguidance will be qualitatively different domestic abuse. We all recognise that enormous progress from what came about before. These figures are important. has been made in the way we treat victims and their At present, just 0.4% of cases fall into category 3 of families, and also perpetrators, and the Bill sets out MAPPA—that is, on average, just 330 offenders a year, positive steps and more progress that we plan to make. and the numbers have fallen by 48% since 2010. MAPPA A lot of the debate about the amendments before the category 3 can cover domestic offenders, yet it does not, House reflects a desire for practical outcomes that at present, does it? The optimistic statement that data Members want to see, yet I accept the Government’s sharing will wave a magic wand and make this fit for position that many of these are often better achieved purpose, especially after 11 years of austerity justice, is through non-legislative means. quite difficult to credit on face value. The response to domestic abuse as experienced by victims, families and perpetrators comes from a local The Government have promised that changes in the partnership typically led by our councils but involving Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill will clarify the police and the NHS. It is through these organisations and extend the information-sharing powers of agencies that we make the difference that we all want to see. subject to MAPPA. It is crucial that these measures Ensuring that we learn from their experience and that complement rather than run counter to Senedd legislation we resource them properly to do the job we expect of in Wales. For example, how will updated information- them is critical. I pay tribute to the work done by sharing powers interact with devolved services in education former Hillingdon councillor Mary O’Connor, serving and housing—areas of policy that should play a key Hillingdon councillors Jane Palmer and Janet Gardner, role in the prevention agenda? and former safeguarding board chair Stephen Ashley to The Home Secretary had previously hinted that a improve the way in which domestic abuse is managed in register could be implemented. Can the Minister commit my constituency. They led the way in training people to to reporting back to this House with data about how identify victims of modern slavery and in uncovering stalking and domestic abuse offenders will be increasingly complex forms of abuse, including coercive control. monitored through MAPPA, and also commit to evaluating They have created a situation for my constituents where the effectiveness of this route? We have all learned too there is a local safe space night-time economy, with much to trust implicitly a system that has failed so more than 40 businesses and hundreds of staff in different many victims so comprehensively in the past. organisations trained in identifying the signs of risk and On domestic abuse protection orders, I echo Welsh knowing how to support people. Vitally, they have Women’s Aid’s call for clarity on the delivery of DAPOs ensured that this learning is shared at a national level, to for Wales. Further clarity on resourcing and guidance help other places transform their approach too. for both devolved and non-devolved areas are important, as the jagged edge of justice in action in Wales needs 3.30 pm greater scrutiny—until, of course, such matters are I conclude by urging Ministers to take a joined-up coherently devolved. How will DAPOs be resourced? approach across Government. The sentiments that have What guidance on resourcing will there be for been expressed in the debate need to find a practical commissioners both devolved and non-devolved, and expression at a local level. Things such as refuge space, how will the UK Government work with the Welsh especially where children need a place in a refuge as Government on the application of DAPOs? well, and the availability of programmes to local agencies I strongly support Lords amendments 40, 41 and 43, that will target perpetrators, seeking to turn that situation which offer protections for migrant women who have around, all involve appropriate resourcing across multiple suffered domestic abuse, given that they face additional, Departments and a high degree of focus. complex, interlocking barriers that can shut them out Furthermore, we need to ensure that guidance on of safety.The Government argue that the existing asylum safeguarding such as that issued by the Department for system can offer support to migrant victims, but in Education in the document “Working together to safeguard reality this is not often the case, and the Home Secretary’s children”is fully fit for purpose and includes organisations plans for changes to the asylum system will make it such as schools, which are often the first to come across harder for migrant victims to access support and fair the warning signs that someone is a victim of domestic treatment if they arrive in the UK by non-official means. abuse or that domestic abuse is present in a household This flies in the face of the Istanbul convention, but are not currently statutory partners in safeguarding. which requires that survivors of violence against women In the Minister’s response, I would be pleased to hear and girls can access protection irrespective of their some clear assurance that that cross-Government focus immigration status. My party wants Wales to be a and approach will feature as we take this legislation forward nation of sanctuary for those fleeing abuse and persecution and implement it for the benefit of all our constituents. and for us to be party to implementing the Istanbul convention in full. Sadly, however, the Government’s Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab) [V]: I add my position at present is a barrier to these ambitions. tribute to our late colleague Dame Cheryl Gillan. 563 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 564
[Stephen Timms] other kinds of visas with no recourse to public funds being turned away, including by refuges and domestic I agree very much with what the hon. Member for abuse services. Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds) said Women’s Aid found in its report “Nowhere to turn” about the importance of the role of local councils in that, over a year, two thirds of its users were ineligible dealing with problems of abuse. Like a number of other for support because they had visas other than spouse Members, I want to support Lords amendments 41, visas.There is a 2019 study by the professor of development 40 and 43 and to argue that a serious problem of geography at King’s College London, which reported a perpetrator immunity needs to be grasped and tackled. survey of migrant victims of domestic violence, in I welcome what the right hon. Member for Basingstoke which two thirds had been threatened by the perpetrator (Mrs Miller) had to say on this. of the abuse that they would be deported if they reported Lords amendment 41 was moved in the other place it. The ability to make that threat credibly, which the by the Bishop of Gloucester. It provides migrant victims current arrangements allow, maintains the awful climate of abuse with temporary leave to remain and access to of impunity that we have at the moment. The Government public funds for no less than six months, having left the are right to recognise that abused migrant women with abuse and while applying to regularise their status. insecure status need immediate support and protection, People are often surprised that a large number of law- but restricting it only to women with spouse visas abiding, hard-working families in the UK—often with perpetuates impunity for perpetrators, and that is in children born here, and sometimes with children who nobody’s interests except the perpetrators. are UK nationals—have an immigration status subject The Government have responded with the support to no recourse to public funds. for migrant victims fund pilot, which we have heard about, both to support survivors of domestic abuse For a victim of domestic abuse, having no recourse to with no recourse to public funds and to help gather data public funds is catastrophic. Basic victim protections to formulate policies eventually to support all migrant are not available. Only 5% of refuge vacancies are victims of domestic abuse. It is due to report next accessible because costs in a refuge are generally met March, and I welcome the announcement that Southall through housing benefit, and people with no recourse Black Sisters will manage it, but it has been pointing to public funds cannot claim housing benefit. Women’s out that there is already ample evidence. We do not need Aid points out that a woman with no recourse to public more evidence on this. The pilot and the Bishop of funds who, as a result, cannot stay in a refuge has to Gloucester pointed out what a small amount of funding choose between homelessness or going back to their it entails, compared with the scale of the problem, and abuser. the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) highlighted I commend the important work of Southall Black that in his earlier intervention. The pilot must not be Sisters in this area, which has been frequently referenced used to avoid addressing the problem and to carry on in the debate. It says: maintaining perpetrator impunity. We need the change “Many women are too scared to report their experiences to in the law that amendment 41 would provide. statutory agencies because they are wholly financially and otherwise Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I want to put on dependent on their abusive spouses or partners, many of whom use women’s immigration status as a weapon of control and the record my party’s condolences and thoughts about coercion.” Dame Cheryl Gillan. I had the opportunity to speak alongside her, along with many others in this House, in The denial of safety in these arrangements to migrant many debates in the Chamber and in Westminster Hall. women is obviously bad for them, but it has other She had a particular interest in autism, which I have an immensely damaging impacts as well. Above all, it interest in. I want to put on the record my condolences creates impunity for perpetrators, who get free rein to to her family, which I have conveyed by letter already. go on and harm other women and children. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for giving me The Children Act 1989 requires local authorities to the opportunity to speak on this weighty, comprehensive provide accommodation and financial support for some and important issue. I begin by thanking the Government families with no recourse to public funds, but they often for the proposals to change the wider support for those do not provide it, due to lack of resources or confusion suffering from domestic violence. I thank the Lords for about what exactly people with no recourse to public their reasoned amendments, a few of which I will discuss funds are entitled to. There is, in practice, a postcode in the short time available to me. In particular, I want to lottery of support, so Southall Black Sisters often has thank the Minister and the shadow Minister.The significant to take legal action against councils that are not fulfilling contributions from right hon. and hon. Members have their obligations to vulnerable women. That is no way really enhanced the debate on this Bill. to run a system of proper support. To illustrate the importance of getting this right, I The DV rule introduced in 2002, which has been wish to highlight that there are approximately 1.8 million mentioned in this debate, allows migrant women on people in Northern Ireland. In the year between October spouse visas to apply for indefinite leave when their 2019 and October 2020, there were 32,000 reported relationship breaks down due to violence. In 2012, a incidents of domestic violence within our very small concession was introduced giving those applicants three population. Of course, charities always tell us that the months’leave and access to limited benefits and temporary figure is much higher, when we consider how many housing while their applications for indefinite leave are incidents are unreported. considered, but the concession does not apply to women Coronavirus has affected us all over the past year and with other kinds of visas, including those with student a bit. Heightened domestic abuse is another side-effect visas, work permit holders and domestic workers. Southall of this dreadful pandemic and the forced isolation that Black Sisters reports more and more women on those has come with it, so we need to get this Bill right, and 565 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 566 that is why I am very grateful for the Lords amendments. have two grandchildren who have been born in lockdown, For many victims, going to the police is the very last and I have seen one because we were able to have our step in a long, harrowing journey of abuse. It is our cluster at Christmas. I have not seen the other one up responsibility to ensure that no one walks that journey close, except in a video—one thing I do know is that he alone. has red hair; I am not quite sure where the red hair came from, as it is certainly not from my side of the family, Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): Does the hon. but obviously there is some a few generations back Gentleman agree that it is important that the police somewhere—but I look forward very much to that time. look at patterns of behaviour? I have often found that However, I am desperately aware that there is a very they look at these as isolated incidents—whether that is real, very difficult and very disturbing downside of the stalking, or whatever it is—rather than an actual pattern no-hassle digital picture age, and that relates to revenge of behaviour? porn using very personal images. Every Member has spoken about that and I will, too, because I feel really Jim Shannon: The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely annoyed and angry about it. right. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for I have watched as my office staff have consoled young Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips), made that point ladies whose ex-partners have threatened to disclose very well in her introduction. If there is a pattern—other images, and their devastation is so very real and Members across the Chamber have referred to this—there heartbreaking. The staff have a sadness in their faces as is a need for the police to be aware of that. they know that unless an image is posted, very little can In reading through the Lords amendments, I noted be done under harassment or other general laws, yet the that Lords amendment 39, after clause 72, highlighted distress is real; it is palpable—it could touch you and that there must a prohibition on charging for the provision cut you. This behaviour is clearly another example of of medical evidence of domestic abuse. This should go threat and control. It is right and proper that it is unsaid, yet I understand the rationale behind highlighting addressed in the Bill and I wholeheartedly support this. Lords amendment 35, which seeks to clarify that it is That brought my mind to the fact that the Bar not okay to threaten the release of these images—by Council had asked for the financial income limit as it anyone, male or female. Sometimes we must remind pertains to legal aid to be withdrawn. Many Members ourselves that the release of any personal image without have referred to legal aid. Legal aid expenditure on consent can be emotionally damaging for any person, domestic violence cases has been cut by 41% in real no matter how seemingly confident they may be. Personal terms, and has been declining ever since, with a images are just that—intensely personal. I welcome the 51% reduction. At the same time, I believe sincerely that amendment’s reaffirming that no one can have the right this decline in funding cannot be attributed to a reduction to release an image of a personal nature without consent. in need, because the figures tell us something different. To conclude—I said I would be quick, Madam Deputy They tell us that there has been a 49% increase in Speaker—it is difficult for one Bill to cover all the facets domestic violence cases in the courts since 2012. Again, of the support and help that is needed for domestic the situation since the start of the pandemic indicates abuse victims, but we must seek to get this right and that cases and reporting are likely to continue to increase ensure that the law supports every victim and does not even more so, meaning that we can expect a continued further traumatise. I thank the Minister and the increase in the number of cases in court, with the Government for their sterling efforts to deliver a Domestic UN—we cannot ignore it—calling domestic violence a Abuse Bill that really can protect. “shadow pandemic”. That is a massive issue, which we must try to look at. Money is often controlled by the 3.45 pm abuser. In terms of legal aid, it is clear that the victim must never be put in a position whereby they halt Victoria Atkins: Home should be a place of love and proceedings due to the lack of legal aid support. Legal safety, but for 2.3 million adult victims of domestic aid is therefore a really important issue to those who are abuse, and for their children, it is not. We all want this subjected to domestic violence. abuse to stop, and we want victims to live peaceful, safe and happy lives, and as I have said many times at this I welcome many of the amendments that have come Dispatch Box, that is why this Government are bringing forward, such as Lords amendment 6 to amend clause forward the Domestic Abuse Bill. The continued passage 33, highlighting the need for domestic abuse protection of the Bill marks an important milestone in our shared orders to include a requirement not to endeavour across the House to provide better support “come within a specified distance of any other specified premises”— and protection for the victims of domestic abuse and such as workplaces or, for example, even places of their children. It is the culmination of over three years worship. Those are ones that I would be aware of and of work, although I rather liked the slip of the tongue that change in the law is so important. In my constituency, by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke over the years, I have honestly been heartbroken and (Mrs Miller) when she said it felt like two generations. I righteously angry about the tales of intimidation from pay tribute in particular to my right hon. Friend, who an abuser towards a victim in safe places, such as their as chair of the Joint Committee, set in train much of the local church and their workplace, and it is past time that work that has happened in this place and the other churches and other places can legally prevent access in place when the Bill was in draft form. I thank her an attempt to intimidate. This provision is therefore sincerely. necessary and I trust that it will soon become law. I also thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Another issue that has come to me in my constituency Maidenhead (Mrs May) for championing the Bill, both office relates to the technological age that we live in. It is as Home Secretary and as Prime Minister, and now— always great to be able see photos of my grandchildren—I eminently, if I may say so—from the Back Benches. I 567 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 568
[Victoria Atkins] the convictions that have been described. I say that, but I hope again that colleagues have appreciated that I also thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have have been very clear that there must be improvements in contributed today. The Bill has been improved during how the system works on the ground. That is why we the course of debate in both Houses. It was scrutinised have announced—we went into a little more detail in properly and thoroughly by their lordships, whom I the “Dear colleague” letter—that we are going to revisit thank for their vital contributions. I do not know whether and refresh all relevant chapters of the MAPPA statutory many other Bills have had a mere 86 amendments to guidance so as to include sections on domestic abuse, to them when they came back to this place. This is a sign ensure that agencies are taking steps to identify perpetrators of their lordships’ commitment. The Bill includes real whose risk requires active multi-agency management. measures to help victims of domestic abuse and, as we We are ensuring that cases of domestic abuse perpetrators have heard, even beyond those relationships. It expressly captured under categories 1 and 2 are included in the recognises the harm and distress caused to victims by threshold guidance that is being developed. We will so-called revenge porn and threats to disclose such issue an HM Prison and Probation Service policy images. framework setting out clear expectations of the management The Bill also creates a new offence of non-fatal of all cases at MAPPA level 1. This work on this new strangulation. My hon. Friend the Member for Newbury system, the multi-agency public protection system, will (Laura Farris) did much in this place when the Bill was have a much greater functionality than existing systems, before us for scrutiny, along with the right hon. and including ViSOR, enabling criminal justice agencies to learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham share information efficiently and to improve risk assessment (Ms Harman) and my hon. Friend the Member for and management of MAPPA nominals. That is what Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier), to campaign on the issues will address the very understandable concerns that of rough sex and non-fatal strangulation. My hon. colleagues have raised in this debate. Friend asked me about consent in the amendment, and I come to the final point I wish to touch upon, and I I want to try to clarify that in order to reassure people hope colleagues will understand why I am going to be who may be watching. A valid defence of consent is quick. Hon. Members have raised questions and concerns available under the new offence only where the offence about the issue of judicial training. My right hon. does not involve causing serious harm or where the Friend the Member for Maidenhead and my hon. Friend perpetrator can show that they had not intended to the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Sir Robert cause serious harm or had not been reckless as to the Neill) set out the problems with the way in which Lords serious harm caused. This provision reflects the current amendment 33 seeks to achieve that laudable aim, which law as set out in R v. Brown and, indeed, in the rough we all agree with, of ensuring that the judiciary and sex clause that was passed earlier in the Bill’s progress. magistrates must be trained well and, importantly, trained We have had to be, and tried to be, consistent with both regularly. Referring back to the comments I was making of those provisions, and I hope that that reassures my earlier about the progress that has been made in the hon. Friend. past few decades, let me say that, by definition, our I have listened carefully to colleagues who have raised understanding has grown, even, as some have said, the issue of the management of perpetrators. This is during the passage of this Bill. Of course, that knowledge absolutely critical. I have talked in the past about the must continue to be deployed and trained. Domestic evolution of our understanding of domestic abuse. We abuse is covered in all family law courses run by the look back on the days of the 1970s when brave campaigners Judicial College, and the debates held in the other place for Refuge and other organisations started setting and in this place will I know—I have faith—have been up refuges and talking about domestic violence. Our watched and listened to very carefully by the President understanding and our efforts to deal with this have of the family court and others. obviously moved absolute milestones in the decades since then, but one of the challenges that we will certainly Jess Phillips: I admire the hon. Lady’s faith, but I be looking to address in the domestic abuse strategy is would like something more than faith. The triumph of the management of perpetrators. I am delighted that we hope over experience will, I fear, leave us in the exact are now investing unprecedented amounts in perpetrator same position with the exact same problems. Faith is programmes, as announced in the Budget, because we well and good—I have it in spades—but I would like to have to prevent perpetrators from committing harm in know about a monitoring process that will be done to the first place. Again, let me emphasise that the reason review how well people are trained and how well this is we find ourselves unable to accept that Lords amendment working. is that creating a separate category as envisaged in the Lords amendment does not get away from the need for the MAPPA authorities to make a judgment in individual Victoria Atkins: I am happy to help the hon. Lady. As cases as to whether a particular offender should be I said in my opening remarks, the President of the managed under the framework. I want to be clear that Family Division has indicated that he will consider three categories exist in MAPPA. Category 1 covers making recommendations regarding training, taking registered sexual offenders. Category 2 covers any violent into account this Bill, the harm panel report, which, as offender or other sexual offenders convicted of offences she knows, is critical to the Ministry of Justice’s concerns under schedule 15 to the Criminal Justice Act 2003 in this area and the four recent Court of Appeal judgments and sentenced to more than 12 months’ imprisonment. in domestic abuse cases. I would argue that there is a Category 3 covers any other dangerous offender. So on real understanding among our independent judiciary of the sorts of horrific examples we have been hearing the need to make sure that they are equipped to ensure about, if there are convictions in the background of that justice is delivered—and delivered well—in the those offenders, these categories would cover some of courtrooms over which they preside. 569 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 570
In summing up, let me reflect on the course of the Crouch, Tracey Hands, rh Greg Bill. Progress on the Bill has been characterised by a Daly, James Harper, rh Mr Mark determination on both sides of the House to work Davies, David T. C. Harris, Rebecca constructively and collegiately. At every stage, we have Davies, Gareth Harrison, Trudy endeavoured to focus on what can be done to help Davies, Dr James Hart, Sally-Ann victims of domestic abuse and to ensure that the abuse Davies, Mims Hart, rh Simon Davies, Philip Hayes, rh Sir John can stop. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Davis, rh Mr David Heald, rh Sir Oliver Basingstoke put it, these are not our issues—these are Davison, Dehenna Heappey, James not party political issues—but the issues of our constituents Dinenage, Caroline Heaton-Harris, Chris who are victims and of their children, and I know that Dines, Miss Sarah Henderson, Gordon each and every one of us has had that very much in Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Henry, Darren mind in all our deliberations on the Bill. Docherty, Leo Higginbotham, Antony I therefore commend the Bill and the amendments Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Hinds, rh Damian that the Government support to the House. I very much Donelan, Michelle Hoare, Simon hope that we will be able to make real and meaningful Dorries, Ms Nadine Holden, Mr Richard progress and pass the Bill, so that we can get on with the Double, Steve Hollinrake, Kevin Dowden, rh Oliver Hollobone, Mr Philip job of helping the victims we all feel so strongly about. Doyle-Price, Jackie Holloway, Adam Drax, Richard Holmes, Paul Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): Drummond, Mrs Flick Howell, John Before I put the Question, just a reminder that, should Duddridge, James Howell, Paul there be more than one Division, the doors will be Duguid, David Huddleston, Nigel locked after eight minutes in the first Division and, after Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Hudson, Dr Neil that, after five minutes. Dunne, rh Philip Hughes, Eddie Eastwood, Mark Hunt, Jane Question put, That this House disagrees with Lords Edwards, Ruth Hunt, rh Jeremy amendment 1. Ellis, rh Michael Hunt, Tom Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Jack, rh Mr Alister The House divided: Ayes 360, Noes 221. Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Javid, rh Sajid Division No. 252] [3.56 pm Eustice, rh George Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Evans, Dr Luke Jenkin, Sir Bernard Evennett, rh Sir David Jenkinson, Mark AYES Everitt, Ben Jenkyns, Andrea Adams, Nigel Bridgen, Andrew Fabricant, Michael Jenrick, rh Robert Afolami, Bim Brine, Steve Farris, Laura Johnson, rh Boris Afriyie, Adam Bristow, Paul Fell, Simon Johnson, Dr Caroline Ahmad Khan, Imran Britcliffe, Sara Fletcher, Katherine Johnson, Gareth Aiken, Nickie Brokenshire, rh James Fletcher, Mark Johnston, David Aldous, Peter Browne, Anthony Fletcher, Nick Jones, Andrew Allan, Lucy Bruce, Fiona Ford, Vicky Jones, rh Mr David Anderson, Lee Buchan, Felicity Foster, Kevin Jones, Fay Anderson, Stuart Buckland, rh Robert Fox, rh Dr Liam Jones, Mr Marcus Andrew, rh Stuart Burghart, Alex Francois, rh Mr Mark Jupp, Simon Ansell, Caroline Burns, rh Conor Frazer, rh Lucy Kawczynski, Daniel Argar, Edward Butler, Rob Freeman, George Kearns, Alicia Atherton, Sarah Freer, Mike Keegan, Gillian Cairns, rh Alun Atkins, Victoria Fuller, Richard Knight, rh Sir Greg Campbell, Mr Gregory Bacon, Gareth Fysh, Mr Marcus Knight, Julian Carter, Andy Bacon, Mr Richard Gale, rh Sir Roger Kruger, Danny Cartlidge, James Badenoch, Kemi Garnier, Mark Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Bailey, Shaun Cash, Sir William Ghani, Ms Nusrat Lamont, John Baillie, Siobhan Cates, Miriam Gibb, rh Nick Largan, Robert Baker, Duncan Chalk, Alex Gibson, Peter Leadsom, rh Andrea Baker, Mr Steve Chishti, Rehman Gideon, Jo Leigh, rh Sir Edward Baldwin, Harriett Churchill, Jo Girvan, Paul Levy, Ian Barclay, rh Steve Clark, rh Greg Glen, John Lewer, Andrew Baron, Mr John Clarke, Mr Simon Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Lewis, rh Brandon Baynes, Simon Clarke, Theo Gove, rh Michael Lewis, rh Dr Julian Bell, Aaron Clarke-Smith, Brendan Graham, Richard Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Benton, Scott Clarkson, Chris Grant, Mrs Helen Lockhart, Carla Beresford, Sir Paul Cleverly, rh James Gray, James Loder, Chris Berry, rh Jake Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Grayling, rh Chris Logan, Mark Bhatti, Saqib Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Green, Chris Longhi, Marco Blackman, Bob Colburn, Elliot Green, rh Damian Lopez, Julia Blunt, Crispin Collins, Damian Griffith, Andrew Lopresti, Jack Bowie, Andrew Costa, Alberto Griffiths, Kate Lord, Mr Jonathan Bradley, Ben Courts, Robert Grundy, James Loughton, Tim Bradley, rh Karen Coutinho, Claire Gullis, Jonathan Mackinlay, Craig Brady, Sir Graham Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Hall, Luke Mackrory, Cherilyn Braverman, rh Suella Crabb, rh Stephen Hammond, Stephen Maclean, Rachel Brereton, Jack Crosbie, Virginia Hancock, rh Matt Mak, Alan 571 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 572
Malthouse, Kit Saxby, Selaine NOES Mangnall, Anthony Scully, Paul Abbott, rh Ms Diane Foxcroft, Vicky Mann, Scott Seely, Bob Abrahams, Debbie Foy, Mary Kelly Marson, Julie Selous, Andrew Ali, Rushanara Gardiner, Barry May, rh Mrs Theresa Shannon, Jim Ali, Tahir Gill, Preet Kaur Mayhew, Jerome Shapps, rh Grant Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Glindon, Mary Maynard, Paul Sharma, rh Alok Amesbury, Mike Green, Kate McCartney, Karl Shelbrooke, rh Alec Anderson, Fleur Greenwood, Lilian McPartland, Stephen Simmonds, David Antoniazzi, Tonia Greenwood, Margaret McVey, rh Esther Skidmore, rh Chris Ashworth, rh Jonathan Griffith, Nia Menzies, Mark Smith, Chloe Barker, Paula Gwynne, Andrew Mercer, Johnny Smith, Greg Beckett, rh Margaret Haigh, Louise Merriman, Huw Smith, Henry Begum, Apsana Halfon, rh Robert Metcalfe, Stephen Smith, rh Julian Benn, rh Hilary Hamilton, Fabian Millar, Robin Smith, Royston Betts, Mr Clive Hanna, Claire Miller, rh Mrs Maria Solloway, Amanda Blake, Olivia Hardy, Emma Milling, rh Amanda Spencer, Dr Ben Blomfield, Paul Harman, rh Ms Harriet Mills, Nigel Spencer, rh Mark Brabin, Tracy Harris, Carolyn Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stafford, Alexander Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Hayes, Helen Mohindra, Mr Gagan Stephenson, Andrew Brennan, Kevin Healey, rh John Moore, Damien Stevenson, Jane Brown, Ms Lyn Hendrick, Sir Mark Moore, Robbie Stevenson, John Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hillier, Meg Mordaunt, rh Penny Stewart, rh Bob Bryant, Chris Hobhouse, Wera Morris, Anne Marie Stewart, Iain Burgon, Richard Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Morris, David Streeter, Sir Gary Butler, Dawn Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Morrissey, Joy Stride, rh Mel Byrne, Ian Hollern, Kate Morton, Wendy Stuart, Graham Byrne, rh Liam Hopkins, Rachel Mullan, Dr Kieran Sturdy, Julian Cadbury, Ruth Howarth, rh Sir George Mumby-Croft, Holly Sunak, rh Rishi Campbell, rh Sir Alan Huq, Dr Rupa Mundell, rh David Sunderland, James Carden, Dan Hussain, Imran Murray, Mrs Sheryll Syms, Sir Robert Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Jardine, Christine Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Thomas, Derek Chamberlain, Wendy Jarvis, Dan Neill, Sir Robert Throup, Maggie Champion, Sarah Johnson, rh Dame Diana Nici, Lia Timpson, Edward Charalambous, Bambos Johnson, Kim Nokes, rh Caroline Tolhurst, Kelly Clark, Feryal Jones, Darren Norman, rh Jesse Tomlinson, Justin Cooper, Daisy Jones, Gerald O’Brien, Neil Tomlinson, Michael Cooper, Rosie Jones, rh Mr Kevan Offord, Dr Matthew Tracey, Craig Cooper, rh Yvette Jones, Ruth Opperman, Guy Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Corbyn, rh Jeremy Jones, Sarah Paisley, Ian Trott, Laura Coyle, Neil Kane, Mike Parish, Neil Truss, rh Elizabeth Creasy, Stella Keeley, Barbara Patel, rh Priti Tugendhat, Tom Cruddas, Jon Kendall, Liz Paterson, rh Mr Owen Vara, Mr Shailesh Cryer, John Khan, Afzal Pawsey, Mark Vickers, Martin Cummins, Judith Kinnock, Stephen Penning, rh Sir Mike Vickers, Matt Cunningham, Alex Kyle, Peter Penrose, John Villiers, rh Theresa Daby, Janet Lake, Ben Percy, Andrew Wakeford, Christian Davey, rh Ed Lammy, rh Mr David Philp, Chris Walker, Sir Charles David, Wayne Lavery, Ian Pincher, rh Christopher Walker, Mr Robin Davies, Geraint Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Poulter, Dr Dan Wallace, rh Mr Ben Davies-Jones, Alex Lewis, Clive Pow, Rebecca Wallis, Dr Jamie De Cordova, Marsha Lloyd, Tony Prentis, Victoria Warburton, David Debbonaire, Thangam Long Bailey, Rebecca Pritchard, rh Mark Warman, Matt Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Lucas, Caroline Pursglove, Tom Watling, Giles Dodds, Anneliese Lynch, Holly Quin, Jeremy Webb, Suzanne Doughty, Stephen Madders, Justin Quince, Will Whately, Helen Dowd, Peter Mahmood, Mr Khalid Raab, rh Dominic Wheeler, Mrs Heather Dromey, Jack Mahmood, Shabana Randall, Tom Duffield, Rosie Malhotra, Seema Redwood, rh John Whittaker, Craig Eagle, Dame Angela Maskell, Rachael Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Whittingdale, rh Mr John Eagle, Maria Matheson, Christian Richards, Nicola Wiggin, Bill Wild, James Eastwood, Colum McCabe, Steve Richardson, Angela Edwards, Jonathan McCarthy, Kerry Williams, Craig Roberts, Rob Efford, Clive McCartney, Jason Williamson, rh Gavin Robertson, Mr Laurence Elliott, Julie McDonagh, Siobhain Wilson, rh Sammy Robinson, Gavin Elmore, Chris McDonald, Andy Wood, Mike Robinson, Mary Eshalomi, Florence McDonnell, rh John Rosindell, Andrew Wright, rh Jeremy Esterson, Bill McFadden, rh Mr Pat Ross, Douglas Young, Jacob Evans, Chris McGinn, Conor Rowley, Lee Zahawi, Nadhim Farron, Tim McGovern, Alison Russell, Dean Tellers for the Ayes: Farry, Stephen McKinnell, Catherine Rutley, David James Morris and Ferrier, Margaret McMahon, Jim Sambrook, Gary Maria Caulfield Fovargue, Yvonne McMorrin, Anna 573 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 574
Mearns, Ian Siddiq, Tulip Atkins, Victoria Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Miliband, rh Edward Slaughter, Andy Bacon, Gareth Docherty, Leo Mishra, Navendu Smith, Cat Bacon, Mr Richard Donelan, Michelle Moran, Layla Smith, Jeff Badenoch, Kemi Dorries, Ms Nadine Morden, Jessica Smith, Nick Bailey, Shaun Double, Steve Morgan, Stephen Smyth, Karin Baillie, Siobhan Dowden, rh Oliver Morris, Grahame Sobel, Alex Baker, Duncan Doyle-Price, Jackie Murray, Ian Spellar, rh John Baker, Mr Steve Drax, Richard Murray, James Starmer, rh Keir Baldwin, Harriett Drummond, Mrs Flick Nandy, Lisa Stevens, Jo Barclay, rh Steve Duddridge, James Nichols, Charlotte Stone, Jamie Baron, Mr John Duguid, David Norris, Alex Streeting, Wes Baynes, Simon Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Olney, Sarah Stringer, Graham Bell, Aaron Dunne, rh Philip Onwurah, Chi Sultana, Zarah Benton, Scott Eastwood, Mark Oppong-Asare, Abena Beresford, Sir Paul Edwards, Ruth Tami, rh Mark Osamor, Kate Berry, rh Jake Ellis, rh Michael Tarry, Sam Osborne, Kate Bhatti, Saqib Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Thomas, Gareth Owatemi, Taiwo Blackman, Bob Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Owen, Sarah Blunt, Crispin Eustice, rh George Peacock, Stephanie Thornberry, rh Emily Bowie, Andrew Evans, Dr Luke Pennycook, Matthew Timms, rh Stephen Bradley, Ben Evennett, rh Sir David Perkins, Mr Toby Trickett, Jon Bradley, rh Karen Everitt, Ben Phillips, Jess Turner, Karl Brady, Sir Graham Fabricant, Michael Phillipson, Bridget Twigg, Derek Braverman, rh Suella Farris, Laura Pollard, Luke Twist, Liz Brereton, Jack Fell, Simon Powell, Lucy Vaz, rh Valerie Bridgen, Andrew Fletcher, Katherine Qureshi, Yasmin Webbe, Claudia Brine, Steve Fletcher, Mark Rayner, rh Angela West, Catherine Bristow, Paul Fletcher, Nick Reed, Steve Western, Matt Britcliffe, Sara Ford, Vicky Rees, Christina Whitehead, Dr Alan Brokenshire, rh James Foster, Kevin Reeves, Ellie Whitley, Mick Browne, Anthony Fox, rh Dr Liam Reeves, Rachel Whittome, Nadia Bruce, Fiona Francois, rh Mr Mark Reynolds, Jonathan Williams, Hywel Buchan, Felicity Frazer, rh Lucy Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Wilson, Munira Buckland, rh Robert Freeman, George Rimmer, Ms Marie Winter, Beth Burghart, Alex Freer, Mike Rodda, Matt Burns, rh Conor Fuller, Richard Yasin, Mohammad Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Butler, Rob Fysh, Mr Marcus Zeichner, Daniel Saville Roberts, rh Liz Cairns, rh Alun Gale, rh Sir Roger Shah, Naz Tellers for the Noes: Carter, Andy Garnier, Mark Sharma, Mr Virendra Gill Furniss and Cartlidge, James Ghani, Ms Nusrat Sheerman, Mr Barry Colleen Fletcher Cash, Sir William Gibb, rh Nick Cates, Miriam Gibson, Peter Question accordingly agreed to. Chalk, Alex Gideon, Jo Chishti, Rehman Glen, John Lords amendment 1 disagreed to. Churchill, Jo Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Clark, rh Greg Gove, rh Michael The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Clarke, Mr Simon Graham, Richard proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Clarke, Theo Grant, Mrs Helen proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Clarke-Smith, Brendan Gray, James Lords amendments 2 and 3 disagreed to. Clarkson, Chris Grayling, rh Chris Cleverly, rh James Green, Chris Lords amendments 4 to 8 agreed to. Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Green, rh Damian Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Griffith, Andrew Clause 55 Colburn, Elliot Griffiths, Kate Collins, Damian Grundy, James Costa, Alberto Gullis, Jonathan SUPPORT PROVIDED BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES TO VICTIMS Courts, Robert Hall, Luke OF DOMESTIC ABUSE Coutinho, Claire Hammond, Stephen Motion made and Question put, That this House Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Hancock, rh Matt disagrees with Lords amendment 9.—(Victoria Atkins.) Crabb, rh Stephen Hands, rh Greg Crosbie, Virginia Harper, rh Mr Mark The House divided: Ayes 352, Noes 222. Crouch, Tracey Harris, Rebecca Division No. 253] [4.8 pm Daly, James Harrison, Trudy Davies, David T. C. Hart, Sally-Ann AYES Davies, Gareth Hart, rh Simon Adams, Nigel Anderson, Lee Davies, Dr James Hayes, rh Sir John Afolami, Bim Anderson, Stuart Davies, Mims Heald, rh Sir Oliver Davies, Philip Heappey, James Afriyie, Adam Andrew, rh Stuart Ahmad Khan, Imran Davis, rh Mr David Heaton-Harris, Chris Ansell, Caroline Aiken, Nickie Davison, Dehenna Henderson, Gordon Aldous, Peter Argar, Edward Dinenage, Caroline Henry, Darren Allan, Lucy Atherton, Sarah Dines, Miss Sarah Higginbotham, Antony 575 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 576
Hinds, rh Damian Miller, rh Mrs Maria Stafford, Alexander Vickers, Matt Hoare, Simon Milling, rh Amanda Stephenson, Andrew Villiers, rh Theresa Holden, Mr Richard Mills, Nigel Stevenson, Jane Wakeford, Christian Hollinrake, Kevin Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stevenson, John Walker, Sir Charles Hollobone, Mr Philip Mohindra, Mr Gagan Stewart, rh Bob Walker, Mr Robin Holloway, Adam Moore, Damien Stewart, Iain Wallace, rh Mr Ben Holmes, Paul Moore, Robbie Streeter, Sir Gary Wallis, Dr Jamie Howell, John Mordaunt, rh Penny Stride, rh Mel Warburton, David Howell, Paul Morris, Anne Marie Stuart, Graham Warman, Matt Huddleston, Nigel Morris, David Sturdy, Julian Watling, Giles Hudson, Dr Neil Morrissey, Joy Sunak, rh Rishi Webb, Suzanne Hughes, Eddie Morton, Wendy Sunderland, James Whately, Helen Hunt, Jane Mullan, Dr Kieran Syms, Sir Robert Wheeler, Mrs Heather Hunt, rh Jeremy Mumby-Croft, Holly Thomas, Derek Whittaker, Craig Hunt, Tom Mundell, rh David Throup, Maggie Whittingdale, rh Mr John Jack, rh Mr Alister Murray, Mrs Sheryll Timpson, Edward Wiggin, Bill Javid, rh Sajid Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Tolhurst, Kelly Wild, James Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Neill, Sir Robert Tomlinson, Justin Williams, Craig Jenkin, Sir Bernard Nici, Lia Tomlinson, Michael Williamson, rh Gavin Jenkinson, Mark Nokes, rh Caroline Tracey, Craig Wood, Mike Jenkyns, Andrea Norman, rh Jesse Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Wright, rh Jeremy Jenrick, rh Robert O’Brien, Neil Trott, Laura Young, Jacob Johnson, rh Boris Offord, Dr Matthew Truss, rh Elizabeth Zahawi, Nadhim Johnson, Dr Caroline Opperman, Guy Tugendhat, Tom Tellers for the Ayes: Johnson, Gareth Parish, Neil Vara, Mr Shailesh James Morris and Johnston, David Patel, rh Priti Vickers, Martin Maria Caulfield Jones, Andrew Paterson, rh Mr Owen Jones, rh Mr David Pawsey, Mark Jones, Fay Penning, rh Sir Mike NOES Jones, Mr Marcus Penrose, John Abbott, rh Ms Diane Cummins, Judith Jupp, Simon Percy, Andrew Abrahams, Debbie Cunningham, Alex Kawczynski, Daniel Philp, Chris Ali, Rushanara Daby, Janet Kearns, Alicia Pincher, rh Christopher Ali, Tahir Davey, rh Ed Keegan, Gillian Poulter, Dr Dan Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena David, Wayne Knight, rh Sir Greg Pow, Rebecca Amesbury, Mike Davies, Geraint Knight, Julian Prentis, Victoria Anderson, Fleur Davies-Jones, Alex Kruger, Danny Pritchard, rh Mark Antoniazzi, Tonia De Cordova, Marsha Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Pursglove, Tom Ashworth, rh Jonathan Debbonaire, Thangam Lamont, John Quin, Jeremy Barker, Paula Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Largan, Robert Quince, Will Beckett, rh Margaret Dodds, Anneliese Leadsom, rh Andrea Raab, rh Dominic Begum, Apsana Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Leigh, rh Sir Edward Randall, Tom Benn, rh Hilary Doughty, Stephen Levy, Ian Redwood, rh John Betts, Mr Clive Dowd, Peter Lewer, Andrew Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Blake, Olivia Dromey, Jack Lewis, rh Brandon Richards, Nicola Blomfield, Paul Duffield, Rosie Lewis, rh Dr Julian Richardson, Angela Brabin, Tracy Eagle, Dame Angela Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Roberts, Rob Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Eagle, Maria Loder, Chris Robertson, Mr Laurence Brennan, Kevin Edwards, Jonathan Logan, Mark Robinson, Mary Brown, Ms Lyn Efford, Clive Longhi, Marco Rosindell, Andrew Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Elliott, Julie Lopez, Julia Ross, Douglas Bryant, Chris Eshalomi, Florence Lopresti, Jack Rowley, Lee Burgon, Richard Esterson, Bill Lord, Mr Jonathan Russell, Dean Butler, Dawn Evans, Chris Loughton, Tim Rutley, David Byrne, Ian Farron, Tim Mackinlay, Craig Sambrook, Gary Byrne, rh Liam Farry, Stephen Mackrory, Cherilyn Saxby, Selaine Cadbury, Ruth Ferrier, Margaret Maclean, Rachel Scully, Paul Campbell, rh Sir Alan Fovargue, Yvonne Mak, Alan Seely, Bob Campbell, Mr Gregory Foxcroft, Vicky Malthouse, Kit Selous, Andrew Carden, Dan Foy, Mary Kelly Mangnall, Anthony Shapps, rh Grant Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Gardiner, Barry Marson, Julie Sharma, rh Alok Chamberlain, Wendy Gill, Preet Kaur May, rh Mrs Theresa Shelbrooke, rh Alec Champion, Sarah Girvan, Paul Mayhew, Jerome Simmonds, David Charalambous, Bambos Glindon, Mary Maynard, Paul Skidmore, rh Chris Clark, Feryal Green, Kate McCartney, Karl Smith, Chloe Cooper, Daisy Greenwood, Lilian McPartland, Stephen Smith, Greg Cooper, Rosie Greenwood, Margaret McVey, rh Esther Smith, Henry Cooper, rh Yvette Griffith, Nia Menzies, Mark Smith, rh Julian Corbyn, rh Jeremy Gwynne, Andrew Mercer, Johnny Smith, Royston Coyle, Neil Haigh, Louise Merriman, Huw Solloway, Amanda Creasy, Stella Halfon, rh Robert Metcalfe, Stephen Spencer, Dr Ben Cruddas, Jon Hamilton, Fabian Millar, Robin Spencer, rh Mark Cryer, John Hardy, Emma 577 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 578
Harman, rh Ms Harriet Oppong-Asare, Abena Lords amendment 9 disagreed to. Harris, Carolyn Osamor, Kate The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Hayes, Helen Osborne, Kate Healey, rh John Owatemi, Taiwo proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Hendrick, Sir Mark Owen, Sarah proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Hillier, Meg Paisley, Ian Lords amendments 10 to 32 agreed to. Hobhouse, Wera Peacock, Stephanie Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Pennycook, Matthew Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Perkins, Mr Toby After Clause 64 Hollern, Kate Phillips, Jess Hopkins, Rachel Phillipson, Bridget TRAINING Howarth, rh Sir George Pollard, Luke Motion made, and Question put, That this House Huq, Dr Rupa Powell, Lucy disagrees with Lords amendment 33.—(Victoria Atkins.) Hussain, Imran Qureshi, Yasmin Jardine, Christine Rayner, rh Angela The House divided: Ayes 361, Noes 218. Jarvis, Dan Reed, Steve Division No. 254] [4.15 pm Johnson, rh Dame Diana Rees, Christina Johnson, Kim Reeves, Ellie AYES Jones, Darren Reeves, Rachel Jones, Gerald Reynolds, Jonathan Adams, Nigel Cash, Sir William Jones, rh Mr Kevan Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Afolami, Bim Cates, Miriam Jones, Ruth Rimmer, Ms Marie Afriyie, Adam Chalk, Alex Jones, Sarah Robinson, Gavin Ahmad Khan, Imran Chishti, Rehman Kane, Mike Rodda, Matt Aiken, Nickie Churchill, Jo Keeley, Barbara Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Aldous, Peter Clark, rh Greg Kendall, Liz Shah, Naz Allan, Lucy Clarke, Mr Simon Khan, Afzal Shannon, Jim Anderson, Lee Clarke, Theo Kinnock, Stephen Sharma, Mr Virendra Anderson, Stuart Clarke-Smith, Brendan Kyle, Peter Sheerman, Mr Barry Andrew, rh Stuart Clarkson, Chris Lammy, rh Mr David Siddiq, Tulip Ansell, Caroline Cleverly, rh James Lavery, Ian Slaughter, Andy Argar, Edward Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Smith, Cat Atherton, Sarah Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Lewis, Clive Smith, Jeff Atkins, Victoria Colburn, Elliot Lloyd, Tony Smith, Nick Bacon, Gareth Collins, Damian Lockhart, Carla Smyth, Karin Bacon, Mr Richard Costa, Alberto Long Bailey, Rebecca Sobel, Alex Badenoch, Kemi Courts, Robert Lucas, Caroline Spellar, rh John Bailey, Shaun Coutinho, Claire Baillie, Siobhan Lynch, Holly Starmer, rh Keir Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Baker, Duncan Madders, Justin Stevens, Jo Crabb, rh Stephen Baldwin, Harriett Mahmood, Mr Khalid Stone, Jamie Crosbie, Virginia Barclay, rh Steve Mahmood, Shabana Streeting, Wes Crouch, Tracey Baron, Mr John Malhotra, Seema Stringer, Graham Daly, James Maskell, Rachael Baynes, Simon Sultana, Zarah Davies, David T. C. Matheson, Christian Bell, Aaron Tami, rh Mark Davies, Gareth McCabe, Steve Benton, Scott Tarry, Sam Davies, Dr James McCarthy, Kerry Beresford, Sir Paul Thomas, Gareth Davies, Mims McCartney, Jason Berry, rh Jake Davies, Philip McDonagh, Siobhain Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Bhatti, Saqib Davis, rh Mr David McDonald, Andy Thornberry, rh Emily Blackman, Bob Davison, Dehenna McDonnell, rh John Timms, rh Stephen Blunt, Crispin Dinenage, Caroline McFadden, rh Mr Pat Trickett, Jon Bowie, Andrew McGinn, Conor Turner, Karl Bradley, Ben Dines, Miss Sarah McGovern, Alison Twigg, Derek Bradley, rh Karen Djanogly, Mr Jonathan McKinnell, Catherine Twist, Liz Brady, Sir Graham Docherty, Leo McMahon, Jim Vaz, rh Valerie Braverman, rh Suella Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. McMorrin, Anna Webbe, Claudia Brereton, Jack Donelan, Michelle Mearns, Ian West, Catherine Bridgen, Andrew Dorries, Ms Nadine Miliband, rh Edward Western, Matt Brine, Steve Double, Steve Mishra, Navendu Whitehead, Dr Alan Bristow, Paul Dowden, rh Oliver Moran, Layla Whitley, Mick Britcliffe, Sara Doyle-Price, Jackie Morden, Jessica Whittome, Nadia Brokenshire, rh James Drax, Richard Morgan, Stephen Wilson, Munira Browne, Anthony Drummond, Mrs Flick Morris, Grahame Wilson, rh Sammy Bruce, Fiona Duddridge, James Murray, Ian Winter, Beth Buchan, Felicity Duguid, David Murray, James Yasin, Mohammad Buckland, rh Robert Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Nandy, Lisa Zeichner, Daniel Burghart, Alex Dunne, rh Philip Nichols, Charlotte Burns, rh Conor Eastwood, Mark Norris, Alex Tellers for the Noes: Butler, Rob Edwards, Ruth Olney, Sarah Gill Furniss and Cairns, rh Alun Ellis, rh Michael Onwurah, Chi Colleen Fletcher Campbell, Mr Gregory Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Carter, Andy Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Question accordingly agreed to. Cartlidge, James Eustice, rh George 579 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 580
Evans, Dr Luke Jenkin, Sir Bernard Murray, Mrs Sheryll Solloway, Amanda Evennett, rh Sir David Jenkinson, Mark Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Spencer, Dr Ben Everitt, Ben Jenkyns, Andrea Neill, Sir Robert Spencer, rh Mark Fabricant, Michael Jenrick, rh Robert Nici, Lia Stafford, Alexander Farris, Laura Johnson, rh Boris Nokes, rh Caroline Stephenson, Andrew Fell, Simon Johnson, Dr Caroline Norman, rh Jesse Stevenson, Jane Fletcher, Katherine Johnson, Gareth O’Brien, Neil Stevenson, John Fletcher, Mark Johnston, David Offord, Dr Matthew Stewart, rh Bob Fletcher, Nick Jones, Andrew Opperman, Guy Stewart, Iain Ford, Vicky Jones, rh Mr David Paisley, Ian Streeter, Sir Gary Foster, Kevin Jones, Fay Parish, Neil Stride, rh Mel Fox, rh Dr Liam Jones, Mr Marcus Patel, rh Priti Stuart, Graham Francois, rh Mr Mark Jupp, Simon Paterson, rh Mr Owen Sturdy, Julian Frazer, rh Lucy Kawczynski, Daniel Pawsey, Mark Sunak, rh Rishi Freeman, George Kearns, Alicia Penning, rh Sir Mike Sunderland, James Freer, Mike Keegan, Gillian Penrose, John Syms, Sir Robert Fuller, Richard Knight, rh Sir Greg Percy, Andrew Thomas, Derek Fysh, Mr Marcus Knight, Julian Philp, Chris Throup, Maggie Gale, rh Sir Roger Kruger, Danny Pincher, rh Christopher Timpson, Edward Garnier, Mark Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Poulter, Dr Dan Tolhurst, Kelly Ghani, Ms Nusrat Lamont, John Pow, Rebecca Tomlinson, Justin Gibb, rh Nick Largan, Robert Prentis, Victoria Tomlinson, Michael Gibson, Peter Leadsom, rh Andrea Pritchard, rh Mark Tracey, Craig Gideon, Jo Leigh, rh Sir Edward Pursglove, Tom Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Girvan, Paul Levy, Ian Quin, Jeremy Trott, Laura Glen, John Lewer, Andrew Quince, Will Truss, rh Elizabeth Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Lewis, rh Brandon Raab, rh Dominic Tugendhat, Tom Gove, rh Michael Lewis, rh Dr Julian Randall, Tom Vara, Shailesh Graham, Richard Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Redwood, rh John Vickers, Martin Grant, Mrs Helen Lockhart, Carla Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Vickers, Matt Gray, James Loder, Chris Richards, Nicola Villiers, rh Theresa Grayling, rh Chris Logan, Mark Richardson, Angela Wakeford, Christian Green, Chris Longhi, Marco Roberts, Rob Walker, Sir Charles Green, rh Damian Lopez, Julia Robertson, Mr Laurence Walker, Mr Robin Griffith, Andrew Lopresti, Jack Robinson, Gavin Wallace, rh Mr Ben Griffiths, Kate Lord, Mr Jonathan Robinson, Mary Wallis, Dr Jamie Grundy, James Loughton, Tim Rosindell, Andrew Warburton, David Gullis, Jonathan Mackinlay, Craig Ross, Douglas Warman, Matt Hall, Luke Mackrory, Cherilyn Rowley, Lee Watling, Giles Hammond, Stephen Maclean, Rachel Russell, Dean Webb, Suzanne Hancock, rh Matt Mak, Alan Rutley, David Whately, Helen Hands, rh Greg Malthouse, Kit Sambrook, Gary Wheeler, Mrs Heather Harper, rh Mr Mark Mangnall, Anthony Saxby, Selaine Whittaker, Craig Harris, Rebecca Mann, Scott Scully, Paul Whittingdale, rh Mr John Harrison, Trudy Marson, Julie Seely, Bob Wiggin, Bill Hart, Sally-Ann May, rh Mrs Theresa Selous, Andrew Wild, James Hart, rh Simon Mayhew, Jerome Shannon, Jim Williams, Craig Hayes, rh Sir John Maynard, Paul Shapps, rh Grant Williamson, rh Gavin Heald, rh Sir Oliver McCartney, Jason Sharma, rh Alok Wilson, rh Sammy Heappey, James McCartney, Karl Shelbrooke, rh Alec Wood, Mike Heaton-Harris, Chris McPartland, Stephen Simmonds, David Wright, rh Jeremy Henderson, Gordon McVey, rh Esther Skidmore, rh Chris Young, Jacob Henry, Darren Menzies, Mark Smith, Chloe Zahawi, Nadhim Higginbotham, Antony Mercer, Johnny Smith, Greg Hinds, rh Damian Merriman, Huw Smith, Henry Tellers for the Ayes: Hoare, Simon Metcalfe, Stephen Smith, rh Julian James Morris and Holden, Mr Richard Millar, Robin Smith, Royston Maria Caulfield Hollinrake, Kevin Miller, rh Mrs Maria Hollobone, Mr Philip Milling, rh Amanda NOES Holloway, Adam Mills, Nigel Holmes, Paul Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Abbott, rh Ms Diane Benn, rh Hilary Howell, John Mohindra, Mr Gagan Abrahams, Debbie Betts, Mr Clive Howell, Paul Moore, Damien Ali, Rushanara Blake, Olivia Huddleston, Nigel Moore, Robbie Ali, Tahir Blomfield, Paul Hudson, Dr Neil Mordaunt, rh Penny Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Brabin, Tracy Hughes, Eddie Morris, Anne Marie Amesbury, Mike Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Hunt, Jane Morris, David Anderson, Fleur Brennan, Kevin Hunt, rh Jeremy Morrissey, Joy Antoniazzi, Tonia Brown, Ms Lyn Hunt, Tom Morton, Wendy Ashworth, rh Jonathan Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Jack, rh Mr Alister Mullan, Dr Kieran Barker, Paula Bryant, Chris Javid, rh Sajid Mumby-Croft, Holly Beckett, rh Margaret Burgon, Richard Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Mundell, rh David Begum, Apsana Butler, Dawn 581 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 582
Byrne, Ian Hopkins, Rachel Rayner, rh Angela Sultana, Zarah Byrne, rh Liam Howarth, rh Sir George Reed, Steve Tami, rh Mark Cadbury, Ruth Huq, Dr Rupa Rees, Christina Tarry, Sam Campbell, rh Sir Alan Hussain, Imran Reeves, Ellie Thomas, Gareth Carden, Dan Jardine, Christine Reeves, Rachel Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Jarvis, Dan Reynolds, Jonathan Thornberry, rh Emily Chamberlain, Wendy Johnson, rh Dame Diana Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Timms, rh Stephen Champion, Sarah Johnson, Kim Rimmer, Ms Marie Trickett, Jon Charalambous, Bambos Jones, Darren Rodda, Matt Turner, Karl Clark, Feryal Jones, Gerald Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Twigg, Derek Cooper, Daisy Jones, rh Mr Kevan Saville Roberts, rh Liz Twist, Liz Cooper, Rosie Jones, Ruth Shah, Naz Vaz, rh Valerie Cooper, rh Yvette Jones, Sarah Sharma, Mr Virendra Webbe, Claudia Corbyn, rh Jeremy Kane, Mike Sheerman, Mr Barry West, Catherine Coyle, Neil Keeley, Barbara Siddiq, Tulip Western, Matt Creasy, Stella Kendall, Liz Slaughter, Andy Whitehead, Dr Alan Cruddas, Jon Khan, Afzal Smith, Cat Whitley, Mick Cryer, John Kinnock, Stephen Smith, Jeff Whittome, Nadia Cummins, Judith Kyle, Peter Smith, Nick Williams, Hywel Cunningham, Alex Lake, Ben Smyth, Karin Wilson, Munira Daby, Janet Lammy, rh Mr David Sobel, Alex Winter, Beth Davey, rh Ed Lavery, Ian Spellar, rh John Yasin, Mohammad David, Wayne Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Starmer, rh Keir Zeichner, Daniel Davies, Geraint Lewis, Clive Stevens, Jo Davies-Jones, Alex Lloyd, Tony Stone, Jamie Tellers for the Noes: De Cordova, Marsha Long Bailey, Rebecca Streeting, Wes Gill Furniss and Debbonaire, Thangam Lucas, Caroline Stringer, Graham Colleen Fletcher Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Lynch, Holly Dodds, Anneliese Madders, Justin Question accordingly agreed to. Doughty, Stephen Mahmood, Mr Khalid Dowd, Peter Mahmood, Shabana Lords amendment 33 disagreed to. Dromey, Jack Malhotra, Seema The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Duffield, Rosie Maskell, Rachael proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Eagle, Dame Angela Matheson, Christian proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Eagle, Maria McCabe, Steve Eastwood, Colum McCarthy, Kerry Lords amendments 34 to 36 agreed to. Edwards, Jonathan McDonagh, Siobhain Efford, Clive McDonald, Andy Before Clause 69 Elliott, Julie McDonnell, rh John Elmore, Chris McFadden, rh Mr Pat Eshalomi, Florence McGinn, Conor REASONABLE FORCE IN DOMESTIC ABUSE CASES Esterson, Bill McGovern, Alison Motion made, and Question put, That this House Evans, Chris McKinnell, Catherine disagrees with Lords amendment 37.—(Victoria Atkins.) Farron, Tim McMahon, Jim Farry, Stephen McMorrin, Anna The House divided: Ayes 362, Noes 217. Ferrier, Margaret Mearns, Ian Division No. 255] [4.22 pm Fovargue, Yvonne Miliband, rh Edward Foxcroft, Vicky Mishra, Navendu AYES Foy, Mary Kelly Moran, Layla Adams, Nigel Baynes, Simon Gardiner, Barry Morden, Jessica Afolami, Bim Bell, Aaron Gill, Preet Kaur Morgan, Stephen Afriyie, Adam Benton, Scott Glindon, Mary Morris, Grahame Ahmad Khan, Imran Beresford, Sir Paul Green, Kate Murray, Ian Aiken, Nickie Greenwood, Lilian Murray, James Berry, rh Jake Aldous, Peter Greenwood, Margaret Nandy, Lisa Bhatti, Saqib Allan, Lucy Griffith, Nia Nichols, Charlotte Blackman, Bob Anderson, Lee Gwynne, Andrew Norris, Alex Blunt, Crispin Anderson, Stuart Haigh, Louise Olney, Sarah Bowie, Andrew Andrew, rh Stuart Halfon, rh Robert Onwurah, Chi Bradley, Ben Ansell, Caroline Hamilton, Fabian Oppong-Asare, Abena Bradley, rh Karen Argar, Edward Brady, Sir Graham Hanna, Claire Osamor, Kate Atherton, Sarah Hardy, Emma Osborne, Kate Atkins, Victoria Braverman, rh Suella Harman, rh Ms Harriet Owatemi, Taiwo Bacon, Gareth Brereton, Jack Harris, Carolyn Owen, Sarah Bacon, Mr Richard Bridgen, Andrew Hayes, Helen Peacock, Stephanie Badenoch, Kemi Brine, Steve Healey, rh John Pennycook, Matthew Bailey, Shaun Bristow, Paul Hendrick, Sir Mark Perkins, Mr Toby Baillie, Siobhan Britcliffe, Sara Hillier, Meg Phillips, Jess Baker, Duncan Brokenshire, rh James Hobhouse, Wera Phillipson, Bridget Baker, Mr Steve Browne, Anthony Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Pollard, Luke Baldwin, Harriett Bruce, Fiona Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Powell, Lucy Barclay, rh Steve Buchan, Felicity Hollern, Kate Qureshi, Yasmin Baron, Mr John Buckland, rh Robert 583 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 584
Burghart, Alex Frazer, rh Lucy Jupp, Simon Patel, rh Priti Burns, rh Conor Freeman, George Kawczynski, Daniel Paterson, rh Mr Owen Butler, Rob Freer, Mike Kearns, Alicia Pawsey, Mark Cairns, rh Alun Fuller, Richard Keegan, Gillian Penning, rh Sir Mike Campbell, Mr Gregory Fysh, Mr Marcus Knight, rh Sir Greg Penrose, John Carter, Andy Gale, rh Sir Roger Knight, Julian Percy, Andrew Cartlidge, James Garnier, Mark Kruger, Danny Philp, Chris Cash, Sir William Ghani, Ms Nusrat Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Pincher, rh Christopher Cates, Miriam Gibb, rh Nick Lamont, John Poulter, Dr Dan Chalk, Alex Gibson, Peter Largan, Robert Pow, Rebecca Chishti, Rehman Gideon, Jo Leadsom, rh Andrea Prentis, Victoria Churchill, Jo Girvan, Paul Leigh, rh Sir Edward Pritchard, rh Mark Clark, rh Greg Glen, John Levy, Ian Pursglove, Tom Clarke, Mr Simon Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Lewer, Andrew Quin, Jeremy Clarke, Theo Gove, rh Michael Lewis, rh Brandon Quince, Will Clarke-Smith, Brendan Graham, Richard Lewis, rh Dr Julian Raab, rh Dominic Clarkson, Chris Grant, Mrs Helen Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Randall, Tom Cleverly, rh James Gray, James Lockhart, Carla Redwood, rh John Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Grayling, rh Chris Loder, Chris Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Green, Chris Logan, Mark Richards, Nicola Colburn, Elliot Green, rh Damian Longhi, Marco Richardson, Angela Collins, Damian Griffith, Andrew Lopez, Julia Roberts, Rob Costa, Alberto Griffiths, Kate Lopresti, Jack Robertson, Mr Laurence Courts, Robert Grundy, James Lord, Mr Jonathan Robinson, Gavin Coutinho, Claire Gullis, Jonathan Loughton, Tim Robinson, Mary Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Halfon, rh Robert Mackinlay, Craig Rosindell, Andrew Crabb, rh Stephen Hall, Luke Mackrory, Cherilyn Ross, Douglas Crosbie, Virginia Hammond, Stephen Maclean, Rachel Rowley, Lee Crouch, Tracey Hancock, rh Matt Mak, Alan Russell, Dean Daly, James Hands, rh Greg Malthouse, Kit Rutley, David Davies, David T. C. Harper, rh Mr Mark Mangnall, Anthony Sambrook, Gary Davies, Gareth Harris, Rebecca Mann, Scott Saxby, Selaine Davies, Dr James Harrison, Trudy Marson, Julie Scully, Paul Davies, Mims Hart, Sally-Ann May, rh Mrs Theresa Seely, Bob Davies, Philip Hart, rh Simon Mayhew, Jerome Selous, Andrew Davis, rh Mr David Hayes, rh Sir John Maynard, Paul Shannon, Jim Davison, Dehenna Heald, rh Sir Oliver McCartney, Jason Shapps, rh Grant Dinenage, Caroline Heappey, James McCartney, Karl Sharma, rh Alok Dines, Miss Sarah Heaton-Harris, Chris McPartland, Stephen Shelbrooke, rh Alec Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Henderson, Gordon McVey, rh Esther Simmonds, David Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Henry, Darren Menzies, Mark Skidmore, rh Chris Donelan, Michelle Higginbotham, Antony Mercer, Johnny Smith, Chloe Dorries, Ms Nadine Hinds, rh Damian Merriman, Huw Smith, Greg Double, Steve Hoare, Simon Metcalfe, Stephen Smith, Henry Dowden, rh Oliver Holden, Mr Richard Millar, Robin Smith, rh Julian Doyle-Price, Jackie Hollinrake, Kevin Miller, rh Mrs Maria Smith, Royston Hollobone, Mr Philip Drax, Richard Milling, rh Amanda Solloway, Amanda Holloway, Adam Drummond, Mrs Flick Mills, Nigel Spencer, Dr Ben Holmes, Paul Duddridge, James Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Spencer, rh Mark Howell, John Duguid, David Mohindra, Mr Gagan Stafford, Alexander Howell, Paul Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Huddleston, Nigel Moore, Damien Stephenson, Andrew Dunne, rh Philip Hudson, Dr Neil Moore, Robbie Stevenson, Jane Eastwood, Mark Hughes, Eddie Mordaunt, rh Penny Stevenson, John Edwards, Ruth Hunt, Jane Morris, Anne Marie Stewart, rh Bob Ellis, rh Michael Hunt, rh Jeremy Morris, David Stewart, Iain Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Hunt, Tom Morrissey, Joy Streeter, Sir Gary Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Jack, rh Mr Alister Morton, Wendy Stride, rh Mel Eustice, rh George Javid, rh Sajid Mullan, Dr Kieran Stuart, Graham Evans, Dr Luke Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Mumby-Croft, Holly Sturdy, Julian Evennett, rh Sir David Jenkin, Sir Bernard Mundell, rh David Sunak, rh Rishi Everitt, Ben Jenkinson, Mark Murray, Mrs Sheryll Sunderland, James Fabricant, Michael Jenkyns, Andrea Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Syms, Sir Robert Farris, Laura Jenrick, rh Robert Neill, Sir Robert Thomas, Derek Fell, Simon Johnson, rh Boris Nici, Lia Throup, Maggie Fletcher, Katherine Johnson, Dr Caroline Nokes, rh Caroline Timpson, Edward Fletcher, Mark Johnson, Gareth Norman, rh Jesse Tolhurst, Kelly Fletcher, Nick Johnston, David O’Brien, Neil Tomlinson, Justin Ford, Vicky Jones, Andrew Offord, Dr Matthew Tomlinson, Michael Foster, Kevin Jones, rh Mr David Opperman, Guy Tracey, Craig Fox, rh Dr Liam Jones, Fay Paisley, Ian Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Francois, rh Mr Mark Jones, Mr Marcus Parish, Neil Trott, Laura 585 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 586
Truss, rh Elizabeth Wheeler, Mrs Heather Jones, Darren Phillips, Jess Tugendhat, Tom Whittaker, Craig Jones, Gerald Phillipson, Bridget Vara, Shailesh Whittingdale, rh Mr John Jones, rh Mr Kevan Pollard, Luke Vickers, Martin Wiggin, Bill Jones, Ruth Powell, Lucy Vickers, Matt Wild, James Jones, Sarah Qureshi, Yasmin Villiers, rh Theresa Williams, Craig Kane, Mike Rayner, rh Angela Wakeford, Christian Williamson, rh Gavin Keeley, Barbara Reed, Steve Walker, Sir Charles Wilson, rh Sammy Kendall, Liz Rees, Christina Walker, Mr Robin Wood, Mike Khan, Afzal Reeves, Ellie Wallace, rh Mr Ben Kinnock, Stephen Wright, rh Jeremy Reeves, Rachel Wallis, Dr Jamie Kyle, Peter Reynolds, Jonathan Young, Jacob Warburton, David Lake, Ben Rimmer, Ms Marie Zahawi, Nadhim Warman, Matt Lammy, rh Mr David Rodda, Matt Watling, Giles Tellers for the Ayes: Lavery, Ian Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Webb, Suzanne James Morris and Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Saville Roberts, rh Liz Whately, Helen Maria Caulfield Lewis, Clive Shah, Naz Lloyd, Tony Sharma, Mr Virendra NOES Long Bailey, Rebecca Sheerman, Mr Barry Lucas, Caroline Siddiq, Tulip Abbott, rh Ms Diane Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Lynch, Holly Slaughter, Andy Abrahams, Debbie Dodds, Anneliese Madders, Justin Smith, Cat Ali, Rushanara Doughty, Stephen Mahmood, Mr Khalid Smith, Jeff Ali, Tahir Dowd, Peter Mahmood, Shabana Smith, Nick Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Dromey, Jack Malhotra, Seema Smyth, Karin Amesbury, Mike Duffield, Rosie Maskell, Rachael Sobel, Alex Anderson, Fleur Eagle, Dame Angela Matheson, Christian Spellar, rh John Eagle, Maria Antoniazzi, Tonia McCabe, Steve Starmer, rh Keir Eastwood, Colum Ashworth, rh Jonathan McCarthy, Kerry Stevens, Jo Edwards, Jonathan Barker, Paula McDonagh, Siobhain Stone, Jamie Efford, Clive Beckett, rh Margaret McDonald, Andy Streeting, Wes Elliott, Julie Begum, Apsana McDonnell, rh John Stringer, Graham Elmore, Chris McFadden, rh Mr Pat Benn, rh Hilary Sultana, Zarah Eshalomi, Florence McGinn, Conor Betts, Mr Clive Tami, rh Mark Esterson, Bill McGovern, Alison Blake, Olivia Tarry, Sam Evans, Chris McKinnell, Catherine Blomfield, Paul Thomas, Gareth Farron, Tim McMahon, Jim Brabin, Tracy Farry, Stephen McMorrin, Anna Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Ferrier, Margaret Mearns, Ian Thornberry, rh Emily Brennan, Kevin Fovargue, Yvonne Miliband, rh Edward Timms, rh Stephen Brown, Ms Lyn Foxcroft, Vicky Mishra, Navendu Trickett, Jon Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Foy, Mary Kelly Moran, Layla Turner, Karl Bryant, Chris Gardiner, Barry Morden, Jessica Twigg, Derek Burgon, Richard Gill, Preet Kaur Morgan, Stephen Twist, Liz Butler, Dawn Glindon, Mary Morris, Grahame Vaz, rh Valerie Byrne, Ian Green, Kate Murray, Ian Webbe, Claudia Byrne, rh Liam Greenwood, Lilian Murray, James West, Catherine Cadbury, Ruth Greenwood, Margaret Nandy, Lisa Western, Matt Nichols, Charlotte Campbell, rh Sir Alan Griffith, Nia Whitehead, Dr Alan Norris, Alex Carden, Dan Gwynne, Andrew Whitley, Mick Olney, Sarah Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Haigh, Louise Whittome, Nadia Onwurah, Chi Chamberlain, Wendy Hamilton, Fabian Williams, Hywel Champion, Sarah Oppong-Asare, Abena Wilson, Munira Hanna, Claire Osamor, Kate Charalambous, Bambos Winter, Beth Hardy, Emma Osborne, Kate Clark, Feryal Yasin, Mohammad Harman, rh Ms Harriet Owatemi, Taiwo Cooper, Daisy Zeichner, Daniel Harris, Carolyn Owen, Sarah Cooper, Rosie Hayes, Helen Peacock, Stephanie Tellers for the Noes: Cooper, rh Yvette Healey, rh John Pennycook, Matthew Colleen Fletcher and Corbyn, rh Jeremy Hendrick, Sir Mark Perkins, Mr Toby Gill Furniss Coyle, Neil Hillier, Meg Creasy, Stella Hobhouse, Wera Question accordingly agreed to. Cruddas, Jon Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Cryer, John Hodgson, Mrs Sharon The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Cummins, Judith Hollern, Kate proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Cunningham, Alex Hopkins, Rachel proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Daby, Janet Howarth, rh Sir George Lords amendment 37 disagreed to. Davey, rh Ed Huq, Dr Rupa David, Wayne Hussain, Imran Davies, Geraint Jardine, Christine DEFENCE FOR VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC ABUSE WHO Davies-Jones, Alex Jarvis, Dan COMMIT AN OFFENCE De Cordova, Marsha Johnson, rh Dame Diana Motion made, and Question put, That this House Debbonaire, Thangam Johnson, Kim disagrees with Lords amendment 38.—(Victoria Atkins.) 587 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 588
The House divided: Ayes 362, Noes 217. Gray, James Lockhart, Carla Division No. 256] [4.29 pm Grayling, rh Chris Loder, Chris Green, Chris Logan, Mark AYES Green, rh Damian Longhi, Marco Griffith, Andrew Lopez, Julia Adams, Nigel Colburn, Elliot Griffiths, Kate Lopresti, Jack Afolami, Bim Collins, Damian Grundy, James Lord, Mr Jonathan Afriyie, Adam Costa, Alberto Gullis, Jonathan Loughton, Tim Ahmad Khan, Imran Courts, Robert Halfon, rh Robert Mackinlay, Craig Aiken, Nickie Coutinho, Claire Hall, Luke Mackrory, Cherilyn Aldous, Peter Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Hammond, Stephen Maclean, Rachel Allan, Lucy Crabb, rh Stephen Hancock, rh Matt Mak, Alan Anderson, Lee Crosbie, Virginia Hands, rh Greg Malthouse, Kit Anderson, Stuart Crouch, Tracey Harper, rh Mr Mark Mangnall, Anthony Andrew, rh Stuart Daly, James Harris, Rebecca Mann, Scott Ansell, Caroline Davies, David T. C. Harrison, Trudy Marson, Julie Argar, Edward Davies, Gareth Hart, Sally-Ann May, rh Mrs Theresa Atherton, Sarah Davies, Dr James Hart, rh Simon Mayhew, Jerome Atkins, Victoria Davies, Mims Hayes, rh Sir John Maynard, Paul Bacon, Gareth Davies, Philip Heald, rh Sir Oliver McCartney, Jason Bacon, Mr Richard Davis, rh Mr David Heappey, James McCartney, Karl Badenoch, Kemi Davison, Dehenna Heaton-Harris, Chris McPartland, Stephen Bailey, Shaun Dinenage, Caroline Henderson, Gordon McVey, rh Esther Baillie, Siobhan Dines, Miss Sarah Henry, Darren Menzies, Mark Baker, Duncan Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Higginbotham, Antony Mercer, Johnny Baker, Mr Steve Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Hinds, rh Damian Merriman, Huw Baldwin, Harriett Donelan, Michelle Hoare, Simon Metcalfe, Stephen Barclay, rh Steve Dorries, Ms Nadine Holden, Mr Richard Millar, Robin Baron, Mr John Double, Steve Hollinrake, Kevin Miller, rh Mrs Maria Baynes, Simon Dowden, rh Oliver Hollobone, Mr Philip Milling, rh Amanda Bell, Aaron Doyle-Price, Jackie Holloway, Adam Mills, Nigel Benton, Scott Drax, Richard Holmes, Paul Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Beresford, Sir Paul Drummond, Mrs Flick Howell, John Mohindra, Mr Gagan Berry, rh Jake Duddridge, James Howell, Paul Moore, Damien Bhatti, Saqib Duguid, David Huddleston, Nigel Moore, Robbie Blackman, Bob Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Hudson, Dr Neil Mordaunt, rh Penny Blunt, Crispin Dunne, rh Philip Hughes, Eddie Morris, Anne Marie Bowie, Andrew Eastwood, Mark Hunt, Jane Morris, David Bradley, Ben Edwards, Ruth Hunt, rh Jeremy Morrissey, Joy Bradley, rh Karen Ellis, rh Michael Hunt, Tom Morton, Wendy Brady, Sir Graham Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Jack, rh Mr Alister Mullan, Dr Kieran Braverman, rh Suella Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Javid, rh Sajid Mumby-Croft, Holly Brereton, Jack Eustice, rh George Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Bridgen, Andrew Evans, Dr Luke Mundell, rh David Jenkin, Sir Bernard Brine, Steve Evennett, rh Sir David Murray, Mrs Sheryll Jenkinson, Mark Bristow, Paul Everitt, Ben Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Jenkyns, Andrea Britcliffe, Sara Fabricant, Michael Neill, Sir Robert Jenrick, rh Robert Brokenshire, rh James Farris, Laura Nici, Lia Johnson, rh Boris Browne, Anthony Fell, Simon Nokes, rh Caroline Johnson, Dr Caroline Bruce, Fiona Fletcher, Katherine Norman, rh Jesse Johnson, Gareth Buchan, Felicity Fletcher, Mark O’Brien, Neil Johnston, David Buckland, rh Robert Fletcher, Nick Jones, Andrew Offord, Dr Matthew Burghart, Alex Ford, Vicky Jones, rh Mr David Opperman, Guy Burns, rh Conor Foster, Kevin Jones, Fay Paisley, Ian Butler, Rob Fox, rh Dr Liam Jones, Mr Marcus Parish, Neil Cairns, rh Alun Francois, rh Mr Mark Jupp, Simon Patel, rh Priti Campbell, Mr Gregory Frazer, rh Lucy Kawczynski, Daniel Paterson, rh Mr Owen Carter, Andy Freeman, George Kearns, Alicia Pawsey, Mark Cartlidge, James Freer, Mike Keegan, Gillian Penning, rh Sir Mike Cash, Sir William Fuller, Richard Knight, rh Sir Greg Penrose, John Cates, Miriam Fysh, Mr Marcus Knight, Julian Percy, Andrew Caulfield, Maria Gale, rh Sir Roger Kruger, Danny Philp, Chris Chalk, Alex Garnier, Mark Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Pincher, rh Christopher Chishti, Rehman Ghani, Ms Nusrat Churchill, Jo Gibb, rh Nick Lamont, John Poulter, Dr Dan Clark, rh Greg Gibson, Peter Largan, Robert Pow, Rebecca Clarke, Mr Simon Gideon, Jo Leadsom, rh Andrea Prentis, Victoria Clarke, Theo Girvan, Paul Leigh, rh Sir Edward Pritchard, rh Mark Clarke-Smith, Brendan Glen, John Levy, Ian Pursglove, Tom Clarkson, Chris Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Lewer, Andrew Quin, Jeremy Cleverly, rh James Gove, rh Michael Lewis, rh Brandon Quince, Will Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Graham, Richard Lewis, rh Dr Julian Raab, rh Dominic Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Grant, Mrs Helen Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Randall, Tom 589 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 590
Redwood, rh John Sunderland, James Dodds, Anneliese Mahmood, Mr Khalid Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Syms, Sir Robert Doughty, Stephen Mahmood, Shabana Richards, Nicola Thomas, Derek Dowd, Peter Malhotra, Seema Richardson, Angela Throup, Maggie Dromey, Jack Maskell, Rachael Roberts, Rob Timpson, Edward Duffield, Rosie Matheson, Christian Robertson, Mr Laurence Tolhurst, Kelly Eagle, Dame Angela McCabe, Steve Robinson, Gavin Tomlinson, Justin Eagle, Maria McCarthy, Kerry Robinson, Mary Tracey, Craig Eastwood, Colum McDonagh, Siobhain Rosindell, Andrew Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Edwards, Jonathan McDonald, Andy Ross, Douglas Trott, Laura Efford, Clive McDonnell, rh John Rowley, Lee Truss, rh Elizabeth Elliott, Julie McFadden, rh Mr Pat Russell, Dean Tugendhat, Tom Elmore, Chris McGinn, Conor Rutley, David Vara, Shailesh Eshalomi, Florence McGovern, Alison Sambrook, Gary Vickers, Martin Esterson, Bill McKinnell, Catherine Saxby, Selaine Vickers, Matt Evans, Chris McMahon, Jim Scully, Paul Villiers, rh Theresa Farron, Tim McMorrin, Anna Seely, Bob Farry, Stephen Mearns, Ian Wakeford, Christian Selous, Andrew Ferrier, Margaret Miliband, rh Edward Walker, Sir Charles Shannon, Jim Fovargue, Yvonne Mishra, Navendu Walker, Mr Robin Shapps, rh Grant Foxcroft, Vicky Moran, Layla Wallace, rh Mr Ben Sharma, rh Alok Foy, Mary Kelly Morden, Jessica Shelbrooke, rh Alec Wallis, Dr Jamie Gardiner, Barry Morgan, Stephen Simmonds, David Warburton, David Gill, Preet Kaur Morris, Grahame Skidmore, rh Chris Warman, Matt Glindon, Mary Murray, Ian Smith, Chloe Watling, Giles Green, Kate Murray, James Smith, Greg Webb, Suzanne Greenwood, Lilian Nandy, Lisa Smith, Henry Whately, Helen Greenwood, Margaret Nichols, Charlotte Smith, rh Julian Wheeler, Mrs Heather Griffith, Nia Norris, Alex Smith, Royston Whittaker, Craig Gwynne, Andrew Olney, Sarah Solloway, Amanda Whittingdale, rh Mr John Haigh, Louise Onwurah, Chi Spencer, Dr Ben Wiggin, Bill Hamilton, Fabian Oppong-Asare, Abena Spencer, rh Mark Wild, James Hanna, Claire Osamor, Kate Stafford, Alexander Williams, Craig Hardy, Emma Osborne, Kate Stephenson, Andrew Williamson, rh Gavin Harman, rh Ms Harriet Owatemi, Taiwo Stevenson, Jane Wilson, rh Sammy Harris, Carolyn Owen, Sarah Stevenson, John Wood, Mike Hayes, Helen Peacock, Stephanie Stewart, rh Bob Wright, rh Jeremy Healey, rh John Pennycook, Matthew Stewart, Iain Hendrick, Sir Mark Perkins, Mr Toby Young, Jacob Streeter, Sir Gary Hillier, Meg Phillips, Jess Zahawi, Nadhim Stride, rh Mel Hobhouse, Wera Phillipson, Bridget Stuart, Graham Tellers for the Ayes: Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Pollard, Luke Sturdy, Julian Leo Docherty and Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Powell, Lucy Sunak, rh Rishi Michael Tomlinson Hollern, Kate Qureshi, Yasmin Hopkins, Rachel Rayner, rh Angela NOES Howarth, rh Sir George Reed, Steve Huq, Dr Rupa Rees, Christina Abbott, rh Ms Diane Cadbury, Ruth Hussain, Imran Reeves, Ellie Abrahams, Debbie Campbell, rh Sir Alan Jardine, Christine Reeves, Rachel Ali, Rushanara Carden, Dan Jarvis, Dan Reynolds, Jonathan Ali, Tahir Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Johnson, rh Dame Diana Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Chamberlain, Wendy Johnson, Kim Rimmer, Ms Marie Amesbury, Mike Champion, Sarah Jones, Darren Rodda, Matt Anderson, Fleur Charalambous, Bambos Jones, Gerald Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Antoniazzi, Tonia Clark, Feryal Jones, rh Mr Kevan Saville Roberts, rh Liz Ashworth, rh Jonathan Cooper, Daisy Jones, Ruth Shah, Naz Barker, Paula Cooper, Rosie Jones, Sarah Sharma, Mr Virendra Beckett, rh Margaret Cooper, rh Yvette Kane, Mike Sheerman, Mr Barry Begum, Apsana Corbyn, rh Jeremy Keeley, Barbara Siddiq, Tulip Benn, rh Hilary Coyle, Neil Kendall, Liz Slaughter, Andy Betts, Mr Clive Creasy, Stella Khan, Afzal Smith, Cat Blake, Olivia Cruddas, Jon Kinnock, Stephen Smith, Jeff Blomfield, Paul Cryer, John Kyle, Peter Smith, Nick Brabin, Tracy Cummins, Judith Lake, Ben Smyth, Karin Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Cunningham, Alex Lammy, rh Mr David Sobel, Alex Brennan, Kevin Daby, Janet Lavery, Ian Spellar, rh John Brown, Ms Lyn Davey, rh Ed Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Starmer, rh Keir Brown, rh Mr Nicholas David, Wayne Lewis, Clive Stevens, Jo Bryant, Chris Davies, Geraint Lloyd, Tony Stone, Jamie Burgon, Richard Davies-Jones, Alex Long Bailey, Rebecca Streeting, Wes Butler, Dawn De Cordova, Marsha Lucas, Caroline Stringer, Graham Byrne, Ian Debbonaire, Thangam Lynch, Holly Sultana, Zarah Byrne, rh Liam Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Madders, Justin Tami, rh Mark 591 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 592
Tarry, Sam Western, Matt Davies, Gareth Hart, rh Simon Thomas, Gareth Whitehead, Dr Alan Davies, Dr James Hayes, rh Sir John Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Whitley, Mick Davies, Mims Heald, rh Sir Oliver Thornberry, rh Emily Whittome, Nadia Davies, Philip Heappey, James Timms, rh Stephen Williams, Hywel Davis, rh Mr David Heaton-Harris, Chris Trickett, Jon Wilson, Munira Davison, Dehenna Henderson, Gordon Turner, Karl Winter, Beth Dinenage, Caroline Henry, Darren Twigg, Derek Yasin, Mohammad Dines, Miss Sarah Higginbotham, Antony Twist, Liz Zeichner, Daniel Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hinds, rh Damian Vaz, rh Valerie Tellers for the Noes: Donelan, Michelle Hoare, Simon Webbe, Claudia Gill Furniss and Dorries, Ms Nadine Holden, Mr Richard West, Catherine Colleen Fletcher Double, Steve Hollinrake, Kevin Dowden, rh Oliver Hollobone, Mr Philip Doyle-Price, Jackie Holloway, Adam Question accordingly agreed to. Drax, Richard Holmes, Paul The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Drummond, Mrs Flick Howell, John proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Duddridge, James Howell, Paul proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Duguid, David Huddleston, Nigel Lords amendment 38 disagreed to. Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Hudson, Dr Neil Dunne, rh Philip Hughes, Eddie Lords amendment 39 agreed to. Eastwood, Mark Hunt, Jane After Clause 72 Edwards, Ruth Hunt, rh Jeremy Ellis, rh Michael Hunt, Tom VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC ABUSE: DATA-SHARING FOR Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Jack, rh Mr Alister IMMIGRATION PURPOSES Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Javid, rh Sajid Eustice, rh George Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Motion made, and Question put, That this House Evans, Dr Luke Jenkin, Sir Bernard disagrees with Lords amendment 40.—(Victoria Atkins.) Evennett, rh Sir David Jenkinson, Mark Everitt, Ben Jenkyns, Andrea Ayes 350, Noes 270. Fabricant, Michael Jenrick, rh Robert The House divided: Farris, Laura Johnson, rh Boris Division No. 257] [4.37 pm Fell, Simon Johnson, Dr Caroline AYES Fletcher, Katherine Johnson, Gareth Fletcher, Mark Johnston, David Adams, Nigel Brine, Steve Fletcher, Nick Jones, Andrew Afolami, Bim Bristow, Paul Ford, Vicky Jones, rh Mr David Afriyie, Adam Britcliffe, Sara Foster, Kevin Jones, Fay Ahmad Khan, Imran Brokenshire, rh James Fox, rh Dr Liam Jones, Mr Marcus Aiken, Nickie Browne, Anthony Francois, rh Mr Mark Jupp, Simon Aldous, Peter Bruce, Fiona Frazer, rh Lucy Kawczynski, Daniel Allan, Lucy Buchan, Felicity Freeman, George Kearns, Alicia Anderson, Lee Buckland, rh Robert Freer, Mike Keegan, Gillian Anderson, Stuart Burghart, Alex Fuller, Richard Knight, rh Sir Greg Andrew, rh Stuart Burns, rh Conor Fysh, Mr Marcus Knight, Julian Ansell, Caroline Butler, Rob Gale, rh Sir Roger Argar, Edward Cairns, rh Alun Kruger, Danny Garnier, Mark Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Atherton, Sarah Carter, Andy Ghani, Ms Nusrat Lamont, John Atkins, Victoria Cartlidge, James Gibb, rh Nick Largan, Robert Bacon, Gareth Cash, Sir William Gibson, Peter Leadsom, rh Andrea Bacon, Mr Richard Cates, Miriam Gideon, Jo Leigh, rh Sir Edward Badenoch, Kemi Caulfield, Maria Glen, John Bailey, Shaun Chalk, Alex Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Levy, Ian Baillie, Siobhan Chishti, Rehman Gove, rh Michael Lewer, Andrew Baker, Duncan Churchill, Jo Graham, Richard Lewis, rh Brandon Baldwin, Harriett Clark, rh Greg Grant, Mrs Helen Lewis, rh Dr Julian Barclay, rh Steve Clarke, Mr Simon Gray, James Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Baron, Mr John Clarke, Theo Grayling, rh Chris Loder, Chris Baynes, Simon Clarke-Smith, Brendan Green, Chris Logan, Mark Bell, Aaron Clarkson, Chris Green, rh Damian Longhi, Marco Benton, Scott Cleverly, rh James Griffith, Andrew Lopez, Julia Beresford, Sir Paul Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Griffiths, Kate Lopresti, Jack Berry, rh Jake Colburn, Elliot Grundy, James Lord, Mr Jonathan Bhatti, Saqib Collins, Damian Gullis, Jonathan Loughton, Tim Blackman, Bob Costa, Alberto Halfon, rh Robert Mackinlay, Craig Blunt, Crispin Courts, Robert Hall, Luke Mackrory, Cherilyn Bowie, Andrew Coutinho, Claire Hammond, Stephen Maclean, Rachel Bradley, Ben Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Hancock, rh Matt Mak, Alan Bradley, rh Karen Crabb, rh Stephen Hands, rh Greg Malthouse, Kit Brady, Sir Graham Crosbie, Virginia Harper, rh Mr Mark Mangnall, Anthony Braverman, rh Suella Crouch, Tracey Harris, Rebecca Mann, Scott Brereton, Jack Daly, James Harrison, Trudy Marson, Julie Bridgen, Andrew Davies, David T. C. Hart, Sally-Ann May, rh Mrs Theresa 593 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 594
Mayhew, Jerome Seely, Bob Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Eagle, Dame Angela Maynard, Paul Selous, Andrew Amesbury, Mike Eagle, Maria McCartney, Karl Shapps, rh Grant Anderson, Fleur Eastwood, Colum McPartland, Stephen Sharma, rh Alok Antoniazzi, Tonia Edwards, Jonathan McVey, rh Esther Shelbrooke, rh Alec Ashworth, rh Jonathan Efford, Clive Menzies, Mark Simmonds, David Bardell, Hannah Elliott, Julie Mercer, Johnny Skidmore, rh Chris Barker, Paula Elmore, Chris Merriman, Huw Smith, Chloe Beckett, rh Margaret Eshalomi, Florence Metcalfe, Stephen Smith, Greg Begum, Apsana Esterson, Bill Millar, Robin Smith, Henry Benn, rh Hilary Evans, Chris Miller, rh Mrs Maria Smith, rh Julian Betts, Mr Clive Farron, Tim Milling, rh Amanda Smith, Royston Black, Mhairi Farry, Stephen Mills, Nigel Solloway, Amanda Blackford, rh Ian Fellows, Marion Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Spencer, Dr Ben Blackman, Kirsty Ferrier, Margaret Mohindra, Mr Gagan Spencer, rh Mark Blake, Olivia Flynn, Stephen Moore, Damien Stafford, Alexander Blomfield, Paul Fovargue, Yvonne Moore, Robbie Stephenson, Andrew Bonnar, Steven Foxcroft, Vicky Mordaunt, rh Penny Stevenson, Jane Brabin, Tracy Foy, Mary Kelly Morris, Anne Marie Stevenson, John Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Gardiner, Barry Morris, David Stewart, rh Bob Brennan, Kevin Gibson, Patricia Morris, James Stewart, Iain Brock, Deidre Gill, Preet Kaur Morrissey, Joy Streeter, Sir Gary Brown, Alan Girvan, Paul Morton, Wendy Stride, rh Mel Brown, Ms Lyn Glindon, Mary Mullan, Dr Kieran Stuart, Graham Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Grady, Patrick Mumby-Croft, Holly Sturdy, Julian Bryant, Chris Grant, Peter Mundell, rh David Sunak, rh Rishi Burgon, Richard Green, Kate Murray, Mrs Sheryll Sunderland, James Butler, Dawn Greenwood, Lilian Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Syms, Sir Robert Byrne, Ian Greenwood, Margaret Neill, Sir Robert Thomas, Derek Byrne, rh Liam Griffith, Nia Nici, Lia Throup, Maggie Cadbury, Ruth Gwynne, Andrew Norman, rh Jesse Timpson, Edward Callaghan, Amy Haigh, Louise O’Brien, Neil Tolhurst, Kelly Cameron, Dr Lisa Hamilton, Fabian Offord, Dr Matthew Tomlinson, Justin Campbell, rh Sir Alan Hanna, Claire Opperman, Guy Tracey, Craig Campbell, Mr Gregory Hardy, Emma Parish, Neil Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Carden, Dan Harman, rh Ms Harriet Patel, rh Priti Trott, Laura Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Harris, Carolyn Paterson, rh Mr Owen Truss, rh Elizabeth Chamberlain, Wendy Hayes, Helen Pawsey, Mark Tugendhat, Tom Champion, Sarah Healey, rh John Penning, rh Sir Mike Vara, Shailesh Chapman, Douglas Hendrick, Sir Mark Penrose, John Vickers, Martin Charalambous, Bambos Hendry, Drew Percy, Andrew Vickers, Matt Cherry, Joanna Hillier, Meg Philp, Chris Villiers, rh Theresa Clark, Feryal Hobhouse, Wera Pincher, rh Christopher Wakeford, Christian Cooper, Daisy Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Poulter, Dr Dan Walker, Sir Charles Cooper, Rosie Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Pow, Rebecca Walker, Mr Robin Cooper, rh Yvette Hollern, Kate Prentis, Victoria Wallace, rh Mr Ben Corbyn, rh Jeremy Hopkins, Rachel Pritchard, rh Mark Wallis, Dr Jamie Cowan, Ronnie Hosie, rh Stewart Pursglove, Tom Warburton, David Coyle, Neil Howarth, rh Sir George Quin, Jeremy Warman, Matt Crawley, Angela Huq, Dr Rupa Quince, Will Watling, Giles Creasy, Stella Hussain, Imran Raab, rh Dominic Webb, Suzanne Cruddas, Jon Jardine, Christine Randall, Tom Whately, Helen Cryer, John Jarvis, Dan Redwood, rh John Wheeler, Mrs Heather Cummins, Judith Johnson, rh Dame Diana Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Whittaker, Craig Cunningham, Alex Johnson, Kim Richards, Nicola Whittingdale, rh Mr John Daby, Janet Jones, Darren Richardson, Angela Wiggin, Bill Davey, rh Ed Jones, Gerald Roberts, Rob Wild, James David, Wayne Jones, rh Mr Kevan Robertson, Mr Laurence Williams, Craig Davies, Geraint Jones, Ruth Robinson, Mary Williamson, rh Gavin Davies-Jones, Alex Jones, Sarah Rosindell, Andrew Wood, Mike Day, Martyn Kane, Mike Ross, Douglas Wright, rh Jeremy De Cordova, Marsha Keeley, Barbara Rowley, Lee Young, Jacob Debbonaire, Thangam Kendall, Liz Russell, Dean Zahawi, Nadhim Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Khan, Afzal Rutley, David Docherty-Hughes, Martin Kinnock, Stephen Sambrook, Gary Tellers for the Ayes: Dodds, Anneliese Kyle, Peter Saxby, Selaine Michael Tomlinson and Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Lake, Ben Scully, Paul Leo Docherty Doogan, Dave Lammy, rh Mr David Dorans, Allan Lavery, Ian NOES Doughty, Stephen Law, Chris Abbott, rh Ms Diane Ali, Rushanara Dowd, Peter Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Abrahams, Debbie Ali, Tahir Dromey, Jack Lewis, Clive Duffield, Rosie Linden, David 595 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 596
Lloyd, Tony Rees, Christina VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC ABUSE: LEAVE TO REMAIN AND Lockhart, Carla Reeves, Ellie THE DESTITUTION DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CONCESSION Long Bailey, Rebecca Reeves, Rachel (DDVC) Lucas, Caroline Reynolds, Jonathan Lynch, Holly Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Motion made, and Question put, That this House MacNeil, Angus Brendan Rimmer, Ms Marie disagrees with Lords amendment 41.—(Victoria Atkins.) Madders, Justin Robinson, Gavin The House divided: Ayes 352, Noes 270. Mahmood, Mr Khalid Rodda, Matt Mahmood, Shabana Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Division No. 258] [4.44 pm Malhotra, Seema Saville Roberts, rh Liz Maskell, Rachael Shah, Naz AYES Matheson, Christian Shannon, Jim Adams, Nigel Clarke, Theo Mc Nally, John Sharma, Mr Virendra Afolami, Bim Clarke-Smith, Brendan McCabe, Steve Sheerman, Mr Barry Afriyie, Adam Clarkson, Chris McCarthy, Kerry Sheppard, Tommy Ahmad Khan, Imran Cleverly, rh James McCartney, Jason Siddiq, Tulip Aiken, Nickie Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey McDonagh, Siobhain Slaughter, Andy Aldous, Peter Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse McDonald, Andy Smith, Alyn Allan, Lucy Colburn, Elliot McDonald, Stewart Malcolm Smith, Cat Anderson, Lee Collins, Damian McDonald, Stuart C. Smith, Jeff Anderson, Stuart Costa, Alberto McDonnell, rh John Smith, Nick Andrew, rh Stuart Courts, Robert McFadden, rh Mr Pat Smyth, Karin Ansell, Caroline Coutinho, Claire McGinn, Conor Sobel, Alex Argar, Edward Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey McGovern, Alison Spellar, rh John Atherton, Sarah Crabb, rh Stephen McKinnell, Catherine Starmer, rh Keir Atkins, Victoria Crosbie, Virginia McLaughlin, Anne Stephens, Chris Bacon, Gareth Crouch, Tracey McMahon, Jim Stevens, Jo Bacon, Mr Richard Daly, James McMorrin, Anna Stone, Jamie Badenoch, Kemi Davies, David T. C. Mearns, Ian Streeting, Wes Bailey, Shaun Davies, Gareth Miliband, rh Edward Stringer, Graham Baillie, Siobhan Davies, Dr James Mishra, Navendu Sultana, Zarah Baker, Duncan Davies, Mims Monaghan, Carol Tami, rh Mark Baker, Mr Steve Davies, Philip Moran, Layla Tarry, Sam Baldwin, Harriett Davis, rh Mr David Morden, Jessica Thewliss, Alison Barclay, rh Steve Davison, Dehenna Morgan, Stephen Thomas, Gareth Baron, Mr John Dinenage, Caroline Morris, Grahame Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Baynes, Simon Dines, Miss Sarah Murray, Ian Thompson, Owen Bell, Aaron Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Murray, James Thomson, Richard Benton, Scott Donelan, Michelle Nandy, Lisa Thornberry, rh Emily Beresford, Sir Paul Dorries, Ms Nadine Newlands, Gavin Timms, rh Stephen Berry, rh Jake Double, Steve Nichols, Charlotte Trickett, Jon Bhatti, Saqib Dowden, rh Oliver Nicolson, John Turner, Karl Blackman, Bob Doyle-Price, Jackie Norris, Alex Twigg, Derek Blunt, Crispin Drax, Richard O’Hara, Brendan Twist, Liz Bowie, Andrew Drummond, Mrs Flick Olney, Sarah Vaz, rh Valerie Bradley, Ben Duddridge, James Onwurah, Chi Webbe, Claudia Bradley, rh Karen Duguid, David Oppong-Asare, Abena West, Catherine Brady, Sir Graham Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Osamor, Kate Western, Matt Braverman, rh Suella Dunne, rh Philip Osborne, Kate Whitehead, Dr Alan Brereton, Jack Eastwood, Mark Oswald, Kirsten Whitford, Dr Philippa Bridgen, Andrew Edwards, Ruth Owatemi, Taiwo Whitley, Mick Brine, Steve Ellis, rh Michael Owen, Sarah Whittome, Nadia Bristow, Paul Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Paisley, Ian Williams, Hywel Britcliffe, Sara Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Peacock, Stephanie Wilson, Munira Brokenshire, rh James Eustice, rh George Pennycook, Matthew Wilson, rh Sammy Browne, Anthony Evans, Dr Luke Perkins, Mr Toby Winter, Beth Bruce, Fiona Phillips, Jess Evennett, rh Sir David Wishart, Pete Buchan, Felicity Phillipson, Bridget Everitt, Ben Yasin, Mohammad Buckland, rh Robert Pollard, Luke Fabricant, Michael Zeichner, Daniel Burghart, Alex Powell, Lucy Burns, rh Conor Farris, Laura Qureshi, Yasmin Tellers for the Noes: Butler, Rob Fell, Simon Rayner, rh Angela Gill Furniss and Cairns, rh Alun Fletcher, Katherine Reed, Steve Colleen Fletcher Carter, Andy Fletcher, Mark Cartlidge, James Fletcher, Nick Question accordingly agreed to. Cash, Sir William Ford, Vicky Cates, Miriam Foster, Kevin Lords amendment 40 disagreed to. Caulfield, Maria Fox, rh Dr Liam Chalk, Alex Francois, rh Mr Mark The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Chishti, Rehman Frazer, rh Lucy proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Churchill, Jo Freeman, George proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Clark, rh Greg Freer, Mike Clarke, Mr Simon Fuller, Richard 597 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 598
Fysh, Mr Marcus Knight, Julian Pow, Rebecca Stride, rh Mel Gale, rh Sir Roger Kruger, Danny Prentis, Victoria Stuart, Graham Garnier, Mark Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Pritchard, rh Mark Sturdy, Julian Ghani, Ms Nusrat Lamont, John Pursglove, Tom Sunak, rh Rishi Gibb, rh Nick Largan, Robert Quin, Jeremy Sunderland, James Gibson, Peter Leadsom, rh Andrea Quince, Will Syms, Sir Robert Gideon, Jo Leigh, rh Sir Edward Raab, rh Dominic Thomas, Derek Glen, John Levy, Ian Randall, Tom Throup, Maggie Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Lewer, Andrew Redwood, rh John Timpson, Edward Gove, rh Michael Lewis, rh Brandon Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Tolhurst, Kelly Graham, Richard Lewis, rh Dr Julian Richards, Nicola Tomlinson, Justin Grant, Mrs Helen Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Richardson, Angela Tracey, Craig Gray, James Loder, Chris Roberts, Rob Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Grayling, rh Chris Logan, Mark Robertson, Mr Laurence Trott, Laura Green, Chris Longhi, Marco Robinson, Mary Truss, rh Elizabeth Green, rh Damian Lopez, Julia Rosindell, Andrew Tugendhat, Tom Griffith, Andrew Lopresti, Jack Ross, Douglas Vara, Shailesh Griffiths, Kate Lord, Mr Jonathan Rowley, Lee Vickers, Martin Grundy, James Loughton, Tim Russell, Dean Vickers, Matt Gullis, Jonathan Mackinlay, Craig Rutley, David Villiers, rh Theresa Halfon, rh Robert Mackrory, Cherilyn Sambrook, Gary Wakeford, Christian Hall, Luke Maclean, Rachel Saxby, Selaine Walker, Sir Charles Hammond, Stephen Mak, Alan Scully, Paul Walker, Mr Robin Hancock, rh Matt Malthouse, Kit Seely, Bob Wallace, rh Mr Ben Hands, rh Greg Mangnall, Anthony Selous, Andrew Wallis, Dr Jamie Harper, rh Mr Mark Mann, Scott Shapps, rh Grant Warburton, David Harris, Rebecca Marson, Julie Sharma, rh Alok Warman, Matt Harrison, Trudy May, rh Mrs Theresa Shelbrooke, rh Alec Watling, Giles Hart, Sally-Ann Mayhew, Jerome Simmonds, David Webb, Suzanne Hart, rh Simon Maynard, Paul Skidmore, rh Chris Whately, Helen Hayes, rh Sir John McCartney, Karl Smith, Chloe Wheeler, Mrs Heather Heald, rh Sir Oliver McPartland, Stephen Smith, Greg Whittaker, Craig Heappey, James McVey, rh Esther Smith, Henry Whittingdale, rh Mr John Heaton-Harris, Chris Menzies, Mark Smith, rh Julian Wiggin, Bill Henderson, Gordon Mercer, Johnny Smith, Royston Wild, James Henry, Darren Merriman, Huw Solloway, Amanda Williams, Craig Higginbotham, Antony Metcalfe, Stephen Spencer, Dr Ben Williamson, rh Gavin Hinds, rh Damian Millar, Robin Spencer, rh Mark Wood, Mike Hoare, Simon Miller, rh Mrs Maria Stafford, Alexander Wright, rh Jeremy Holden, Mr Richard Milling, rh Amanda Stephenson, Andrew Young, Jacob Hollinrake, Kevin Mills, Nigel Stevenson, Jane Zahawi, Nadhim Hollobone, Mr Philip Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stevenson, John Holloway, Adam Mohindra, Mr Gagan Stewart, rh Bob Tellers for the Ayes: Holmes, Paul Moore, Damien Stewart, Iain Michael Tomlinson and Howell, John Moore, Robbie Streeter, Sir Gary Leo Docherty Howell, Paul Mordaunt, rh Penny Huddleston, Nigel Morris, Anne Marie NOES Hudson, Dr Neil Morris, David Hughes, Eddie Morris, James Abbott, rh Ms Diane Brock, Deidre Hunt, Jane Morrissey, Joy Abrahams, Debbie Brown, Alan Hunt, rh Jeremy Morton, Wendy Ali, Rushanara Brown, Ms Lyn Hunt, Tom Mullan, Dr Kieran Ali, Tahir Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Jack, rh Mr Alister Mumby-Croft, Holly Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Bryant, Chris Javid, rh Sajid Mundell, rh David Amesbury, Mike Burgon, Richard Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Murray, Mrs Sheryll Anderson, Fleur Butler, Dawn Jenkin, Sir Bernard Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Antoniazzi, Tonia Byrne, Ian Jenkinson, Mark Neill, Sir Robert Ashworth, rh Jonathan Byrne, rh Liam Jenkyns, Andrea Nici, Lia Bardell, Hannah Cadbury, Ruth Jenrick, rh Robert Norman, rh Jesse Barker, Paula Callaghan, Amy Johnson, rh Boris O’Brien, Neil Beckett, rh Margaret Cameron, Dr Lisa Johnson, Dr Caroline Offord, Dr Matthew Begum, Apsana Campbell, rh Sir Alan Johnson, Gareth Opperman, Guy Benn, rh Hilary Campbell, Mr Gregory Johnston, David Parish, Neil Betts, Mr Clive Carden, Dan Jones, Andrew Patel, rh Priti Black, Mhairi Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Jones, rh Mr David Paterson, rh Mr Owen Blackford, rh Ian Chamberlain, Wendy Jones, Fay Pawsey, Mark Blackman, Kirsty Champion, Sarah Jones, Mr Marcus Penning, rh Sir Mike Blake, Olivia Chapman, Douglas Jupp, Simon Penrose, John Blomfield, Paul Charalambous, Bambos Kawczynski, Daniel Percy, Andrew Bonnar, Steven Cherry, Joanna Kearns, Alicia Philp, Chris Brabin, Tracy Clark, Feryal Keegan, Gillian Pincher, rh Christopher Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Cooper, Daisy Knight, rh Sir Greg Poulter, Dr Dan Brennan, Kevin Cooper, Rosie 599 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 600
Cooper, rh Yvette Hollern, Kate Olney, Sarah Sobel, Alex Corbyn, rh Jeremy Hopkins, Rachel Onwurah, Chi Spellar, rh John Cowan, Ronnie Hosie, rh Stewart Oppong-Asare, Abena Starmer, rh Keir Coyle, Neil Howarth, rh Sir George Osamor, Kate Stephens, Chris Crawley, Angela Huq, Dr Rupa Osborne, Kate Stevens, Jo Creasy, Stella Hussain, Imran Oswald, Kirsten Stone, Jamie Cruddas, Jon Jardine, Christine Owatemi, Taiwo Streeting, Wes Cryer, John Jarvis, Dan Owen, Sarah Stringer, Graham Cummins, Judith Johnson, rh Dame Diana Paisley, Ian Sultana, Zarah Cunningham, Alex Johnson, Kim Peacock, Stephanie Tami, rh Mark Daby, Janet Jones, Darren Pennycook, Matthew Tarry, Sam Davey, rh Ed Jones, Gerald Perkins, Mr Toby Thewliss, Alison David, Wayne Jones, rh Mr Kevan Phillips, Jess Thomas, Gareth Davies, Geraint Jones, Ruth Phillipson, Bridget Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Davies-Jones, Alex Jones, Sarah Pollard, Luke Thompson, Owen Day, Martyn Kane, Mike Powell, Lucy Thomson, Richard De Cordova, Marsha Keeley, Barbara Qureshi, Yasmin Thornberry, rh Emily Debbonaire, Thangam Kendall, Liz Rayner, rh Angela Timms, rh Stephen Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Khan, Afzal Reed, Steve Trickett, Jon Docherty-Hughes, Martin Kinnock, Stephen Rees, Christina Turner, Karl Dodds, Anneliese Kyle, Peter Reeves, Ellie Twigg, Derek Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Lake, Ben Reeves, Rachel Twist, Liz Doogan, Dave Lammy, rh Mr David Reynolds, Jonathan Vaz, rh Valerie Dorans, Allan Lavery, Ian Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Webbe, Claudia Doughty, Stephen Law, Chris Rimmer, Ms Marie West, Catherine Dowd, Peter Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Robinson, Gavin Western, Matt Dromey, Jack Lewis, Clive Rodda, Matt Whitehead, Dr Alan Duffield, Rosie Linden, David Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Whitford, Dr Philippa Eagle, Dame Angela Lloyd, Tony Saville Roberts, rh Liz Whitley, Mick Eagle, Maria Lockhart, Carla Shah, Naz Whittome, Nadia Eastwood, Colum Long Bailey, Rebecca Shannon, Jim Williams, Hywel Edwards, Jonathan Lucas, Caroline Sharma, Mr Virendra Wilson, Munira Efford, Clive Lynch, Holly Sheerman, Mr Barry Wilson, rh Sammy Elliott, Julie MacNeil, Angus Brendan Sheppard, Tommy Winter, Beth Elmore, Chris Madders, Justin Siddiq, Tulip Wishart, Pete Eshalomi, Florence Mahmood, Mr Khalid Slaughter, Andy Yasin, Mohammad Esterson, Bill Mahmood, Shabana Smith, Alyn Zeichner, Daniel Evans, Chris Malhotra, Seema Smith, Cat Farron, Tim Maskell, Rachael Smith, Jeff Tellers for the Noes: Farry, Stephen Matheson, Christian Smith, Nick Gill Furniss and Fellows, Marion Mc Nally, John Smyth, Karin Colleen Fletcher Ferrier, Margaret McCabe, Steve Flynn, Stephen McCarthy, Kerry Question accordingly agreed to. Fovargue, Yvonne McCartney, Jason Foxcroft, Vicky McDonagh, Siobhain Lords amendment 41 disagreed to. Foy, Mary Kelly McDonald, Andy The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Gardiner, Barry McDonald, Stewart Malcolm proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Gibson, Patricia McDonald, Stuart C. proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Gill, Preet Kaur McDonnell, rh John Girvan, Paul McFadden, rh Mr Pat MONITORING OF SERIAL AND SERIOUS HARM DOMESTIC Glindon, Mary McGinn, Conor Grady, Patrick McGovern, Alison ABUSE AND STALKING PERPETRATORS UNDER MULTI- Grant, Peter McKinnell, Catherine AGENCY PUBLIC PROTECTION ARRANGEMENTS Green, Kate McLaughlin, Anne Motion made, and Question put, That this House Greenwood, Lilian McMahon, Jim disagrees with Lords amendment 42.—(Victoria Atkins.) Greenwood, Margaret McMorrin, Anna Griffith, Nia Mearns, Ian The House divided: Ayes 351, Noes 226. Gwynne, Andrew Miliband, rh Edward Division No. 259] [4.51 pm Haigh, Louise Mishra, Navendu Hamilton, Fabian Monaghan, Carol AYES Hanna, Claire Moran, Layla Adams, Nigel Atherton, Sarah Hardy, Emma Morden, Jessica Afolami, Bim Atkins, Victoria Harman, rh Ms Harriet Morgan, Stephen Afriyie, Adam Bacon, Gareth Harris, Carolyn Morris, Grahame Ahmad Khan, Imran Bacon, Mr Richard Hayes, Helen Murray, Ian Aiken, Nickie Badenoch, Kemi Healey, rh John Murray, James Aldous, Peter Bailey, Shaun Hendrick, Sir Mark Nandy, Lisa Allan, Lucy Baillie, Siobhan Hendry, Drew Newlands, Gavin Anderson, Lee Hillier, Meg Nichols, Charlotte Anderson, Stuart Baker, Duncan Hobhouse, Wera Nicolson, John Andrew, rh Stuart Baker, Mr Steve Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Norris, Alex Ansell, Caroline Baldwin, Harriett Hodgson, Mrs Sharon O’Hara, Brendan Argar, Edward Barclay, rh Steve 601 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 602
Baron, Mr John Duguid, David Hudson, Dr Neil Morris, David Baynes, Simon Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Hughes, Eddie Morris, James Bell, Aaron Dunne, rh Philip Hunt, Jane Morrissey, Joy Benton, Scott Eastwood, Mark Hunt, rh Jeremy Morton, Wendy Beresford, Sir Paul Edwards, Ruth Hunt, Tom Mullan, Dr Kieran Berry, rh Jake Ellis, rh Michael Jack, rh Mr Alister Mumby-Croft, Holly Bhatti, Saqib Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Javid, rh Sajid Mundell, rh David Blackman, Bob Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Murray, Mrs Sheryll Blunt, Crispin Eustice, rh George Jenkin, Sir Bernard Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Bowie, Andrew Evans, Dr Luke Jenkinson, Mark Neill, Sir Robert Bradley, Ben Evennett, rh Sir David Jenkyns, Andrea Nici, Lia Bradley, rh Karen Everitt, Ben Jenrick, rh Robert Norman, rh Jesse Brady, Sir Graham Fabricant, Michael Johnson, rh Boris O’Brien, Neil Braverman, rh Suella Farris, Laura Johnson, Dr Caroline Offord, Dr Matthew Brereton, Jack Fell, Simon Johnson, Gareth Opperman, Guy Bridgen, Andrew Fletcher, Katherine Johnston, David Parish, Neil Brine, Steve Fletcher, Mark Jones, Andrew Patel, rh Priti Bristow, Paul Fletcher, Nick Jones, rh Mr David Paterson, rh Mr Owen Britcliffe, Sara Ford, Vicky Jones, Fay Pawsey, Mark Brokenshire, rh James Foster, Kevin Jones, Mr Marcus Penning, rh Sir Mike Browne, Anthony Fox, rh Dr Liam Jupp, Simon Penrose, John Bruce, Fiona Francois, rh Mr Mark Kawczynski, Daniel Percy, Andrew Buchan, Felicity Frazer, rh Lucy Kearns, Alicia Philp, Chris Buckland, rh Robert Freeman, George Keegan, Gillian Pincher, rh Christopher Burghart, Alex Freer, Mike Knight, rh Sir Greg Poulter, Dr Dan Burns, rh Conor Fuller, Richard Knight, Julian Pow, Rebecca Butler, Rob Fysh, Mr Marcus Kruger, Danny Prentis, Victoria Cairns, rh Alun Gale, rh Sir Roger Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Pritchard, rh Mark Carter, Andy Garnier, Mark Lamont, John Pursglove, Tom Cartlidge, James Ghani, Ms Nusrat Largan, Robert Quin, Jeremy Cash, Sir William Gibb, rh Nick Leadsom, rh Andrea Quince, Will Cates, Miriam Gibson, Peter Leigh, rh Sir Edward Raab, rh Dominic Caulfield, Maria Gideon, Jo Levy, Ian Randall, Tom Chalk, Alex Glen, John Lewer, Andrew Redwood, rh John Chishti, Rehman Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Lewis, rh Brandon Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Churchill, Jo Gove, rh Michael Lewis, rh Dr Julian Richards, Nicola Clark, rh Greg Graham, Richard Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Richardson, Angela Clarke, Mr Simon Grant, Mrs Helen Loder, Chris Roberts, Rob Clarke, Theo Gray, James Logan, Mark Robertson, Mr Laurence Clarke-Smith, Brendan Grayling, rh Chris Longhi, Marco Robinson, Mary Clarkson, Chris Green, Chris Lopez, Julia Rosindell, Andrew Cleverly, rh James Green, rh Damian Lopresti, Jack Ross, Douglas Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Griffith, Andrew Lord, Mr Jonathan Rowley, Lee Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Griffiths, Kate Loughton, Tim Russell, Dean Colburn, Elliot Grundy, James Mackinlay, Craig Rutley, David Collins, Damian Gullis, Jonathan Mackrory, Cherilyn Sambrook, Gary Costa, Alberto Hall, Luke Maclean, Rachel Saxby, Selaine Courts, Robert Hammond, Stephen Mak, Alan Scully, Paul Coutinho, Claire Hancock, rh Matt Malthouse, Kit Seely, Bob Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Hands, rh Greg Mangnall, Anthony Selous, Andrew Crabb, rh Stephen Harper, rh Mr Mark Mann, Scott Shapps, rh Grant Crosbie, Virginia Harris, Rebecca Marson, Julie Sharma, rh Alok Crouch, Tracey Harrison, Trudy May, rh Mrs Theresa Shelbrooke, rh Alec Daly, James Hart, Sally-Ann Mayhew, Jerome Simmonds, David Davies, David T. C. Hart, rh Simon Maynard, Paul Skidmore, rh Chris Davies, Gareth Hayes, rh Sir John McCartney, Karl Smith, Chloe Davies, Dr James Heald, rh Sir Oliver McPartland, Stephen Smith, Greg Davies, Mims Heappey, James McVey, rh Esther Smith, Henry Davies, Philip Heaton-Harris, Chris Menzies, Mark Smith, rh Julian Davis, rh Mr David Henderson, Gordon Mercer, Johnny Smith, Royston Davison, Dehenna Henry, Darren Merriman, Huw Solloway, Amanda Dinenage, Caroline Higginbotham, Antony Metcalfe, Stephen Spencer, Dr Ben Dines, Miss Sarah Hinds, rh Damian Millar, Robin Spencer, rh Mark Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hoare, Simon Miller, rh Mrs Maria Stafford, Alexander Donelan, Michelle Holden, Mr Richard Milling, rh Amanda Stephenson, Andrew Dorries, Ms Nadine Hollinrake, Kevin Mills, Nigel Stevenson, Jane Double, Steve Hollobone, Mr Philip Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stevenson, John Dowden, rh Oliver Holloway, Adam Mohindra, Mr Gagan Stewart, rh Bob Doyle-Price, Jackie Holmes, Paul Moore, Damien Stewart, Iain Drax, Richard Howell, John Moore, Robbie Streeter, Sir Gary Drummond, Mrs Flick Howell, Paul Mordaunt, rh Penny Stride, rh Mel Duddridge, James Huddleston, Nigel Morris, Anne Marie Stuart, Graham 603 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 604
Sturdy, Julian Wallace, rh Mr Ben Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Owen, Sarah Sunak, rh Rishi Wallis, Dr Jamie Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Paisley, Ian Sunderland, James Warburton, David Hollern, Kate Peacock, Stephanie Syms, Sir Robert Warman, Matt Hopkins, Rachel Pennycook, Matthew Thomas, Derek Watling, Giles Howarth, rh Sir George Perkins, Mr Toby Throup, Maggie Webb, Suzanne Huq, Dr Rupa Phillips, Jess Timpson, Edward Whately, Helen Hussain, Imran Phillipson, Bridget Tolhurst, Kelly Wheeler, Mrs Heather Jardine, Christine Pollard, Luke Tomlinson, Justin Whittaker, Craig Jarvis, Dan Powell, Lucy Tracey, Craig Whittingdale, rh Mr John Johnson, rh Dame Diana Qureshi, Yasmin Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Wiggin, Bill Johnson, Kim Rayner, rh Angela Trott, Laura Wild, James Jones, Darren Reed, Steve Truss, rh Elizabeth Williams, Craig Jones, Gerald Rees, Christina Tugendhat, Tom Williamson, rh Gavin Jones, rh Mr Kevan Reeves, Ellie Vara, Mr Shailesh Wood, Mike Jones, Ruth Reeves, Rachel Vickers, Martin Wright, rh Jeremy Jones, Sarah Reynolds, Jonathan Vickers, Matt Young, Jacob Kane, Mike Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Villiers, rh Theresa Zahawi, Nadhim Keeley, Barbara Rimmer, Ms Marie Wakeford, Christian Tellers for the Ayes: Kendall, Liz Robinson, Gavin Walker, Sir Charles Leo Docherty and Khan, Afzal Rodda, Matt Walker, Mr Robin Michael Tomlinson Kinnock, Stephen Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Kyle, Peter Saville Roberts, rh Liz Lake, Ben Shah, Naz NOES Lammy, rh Mr David Shannon, Jim Abbott, rh Ms Diane Davies, Geraint Lavery, Ian Sharma, Mr Virendra Abrahams, Debbie Davies-Jones, Alex Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Sheerman, Mr Barry Ali, Rushanara De Cordova, Marsha Lewis, Clive Siddiq, Tulip Ali, Tahir Debbonaire, Thangam Lloyd, Tony Slaughter, Andy Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Lockhart, Carla Smith, Cat Amesbury, Mike Dodds, Anneliese Long Bailey, Rebecca Smith, Jeff Anderson, Fleur Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Lucas, Caroline Smith, Nick Antoniazzi, Tonia Doughty, Stephen Lynch, Holly Smyth, Karin Ashworth, rh Jonathan Dowd, Peter Madders, Justin Sobel, Alex Barker, Paula Dromey, Jack Mahmood, Mr Khalid Spellar, rh John Beckett, rh Margaret Duffield, Rosie Mahmood, Shabana Starmer, rh Keir Begum, Apsana Eagle, Dame Angela Malhotra, Seema Stevens, Jo Benn, rh Hilary Eagle, Maria Maskell, Rachael Stone, Jamie Betts, Mr Clive Eastwood, Colum Matheson, Christian Streeting, Wes Blake, Olivia Edwards, Jonathan McCabe, Steve Stringer, Graham Blomfield, Paul Efford, Clive McCarthy, Kerry Sultana, Zarah McCartney, Jason Brabin, Tracy Elliott, Julie Tami, rh Mark McDonagh, Siobhain Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Elmore, Chris Tarry, Sam Brennan, Kevin Eshalomi, Florence McDonald, Andy Thomas, Gareth Brown, Ms Lyn Esterson, Bill McDonnell, rh John Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Evans, Chris McFadden, rh Mr Pat Thornberry, rh Emily Bryant, Chris Farron, Tim McGinn, Conor Timms, rh Stephen Burgon, Richard Farry, Stephen McGovern, Alison Butler, Dawn Ferrier, Margaret McKinnell, Catherine Trickett, Jon Byrne, Ian Fovargue, Yvonne McMahon, Jim Turner, Karl Byrne, rh Liam Foxcroft, Vicky McMorrin, Anna Twigg, Derek Cadbury, Ruth Foy, Mary Kelly Mearns, Ian Twist, Liz Campbell, rh Sir Alan Gardiner, Barry Miliband, rh Edward Vaz, rh Valerie Campbell, Mr Gregory Gill, Preet Kaur Mishra, Navendu Webbe, Claudia Carden, Dan Girvan, Paul Moran, Layla West, Catherine Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Glindon, Mary Morden, Jessica Western, Matt Chamberlain, Wendy Green, Kate Morgan, Stephen Whitehead, Dr Alan Champion, Sarah Greenwood, Lilian Morris, Grahame Whitley, Mick Charalambous, Bambos Greenwood, Margaret Murray, Ian Whittome, Nadia Clark, Feryal Griffith, Nia Murray, James Williams, Hywel Cooper, Daisy Gwynne, Andrew Nandy, Lisa Wilson, Munira Cooper, Rosie Haigh, Louise Nichols, Charlotte Wilson, rh Sammy Norris, Alex Cooper, rh Yvette Halfon, rh Robert Winter, Beth Olney, Sarah Corbyn, rh Jeremy Hamilton, Fabian Yasin, Mohammad Onwurah, Chi Coyle, Neil Hanna, Claire Zeichner, Daniel Creasy, Stella Hardy, Emma Oppong-Asare, Abena Cruddas, Jon Harman, rh Ms Harriet Osamor, Kate Tellers for the Noes: Cryer, John Harris, Carolyn Osborne, Kate Gill Furniss and Owatemi, Taiwo Colleen Fletcher Cummins, Judith Hayes, Helen Cunningham, Alex Healey, rh John Daby, Janet Hendrick, Sir Mark Question accordingly agreed to. Davey, rh Ed Hillier, Meg David, Wayne Hobhouse, Wera Lords amendment 42 disagreed to. 605 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 606
The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Fletcher, Katherine Johnson, Gareth proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Fletcher, Mark Johnston, David proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Fletcher, Nick Jones, Andrew Ford, Vicky Jones, rh Mr David Government amendments (a) to (c) made in lieu of Foster, Kevin Jones, Fay Lords amendment 42. Fox, rh Dr Liam Jones, Mr Marcus Francois, rh Mr Mark Jupp, Simon EFFECTIVE PROTECTION AND SUPPORT FOR ALL VICTIMS Frazer, rh Lucy Kawczynski, Daniel OF DOMESTIC ABUSE Freeman, George Kearns, Alicia Motion made, and Question put, That this House Freer, Mike Keegan, Gillian disagrees with Lords amendment 43.—(Victoria Atkins.) Fuller, Richard Knight, rh Sir Greg Fysh, Mr Marcus Knight, Julian The House divided: Ayes 352, Noes 226. Gale, rh Sir Roger Kruger, Danny Division No. 260] [4.58 pm Garnier, Mark Kwarteng, rh Kwasi Ghani, Ms Nusrat Lamont, John AYES Gibb, rh Nick Largan, Robert Gibson, Peter Leadsom, rh Andrea Adams, Nigel Caulfield, Maria Gideon, Jo Leigh, rh Sir Edward Afolami, Bim Chalk, Alex Glen, John Levy, Ian Afriyie, Adam Chishti, Rehman Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Lewer, Andrew Ahmad Khan, Imran Churchill, Jo Gove, rh Michael Lewis, rh Brandon Aiken, Nickie Clark, rh Greg Graham, Richard Lewis, rh Dr Julian Aldous, Peter Clarke, Mr Simon Grant, Mrs Helen Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Allan, Lucy Clarke, Theo Gray, James Loder, Chris Anderson, Lee Clarke-Smith, Brendan Grayling, rh Chris Logan, Mark Anderson, Stuart Clarkson, Chris Green, Chris Longhi, Marco Andrew, rh Stuart Cleverly, rh James Green, rh Damian Lopez, Julia Ansell, Caroline Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Griffith, Andrew Lopresti, Jack Argar, Edward Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Griffiths, Kate Lord, Mr Jonathan Atherton, Sarah Colburn, Elliot Grundy, James Loughton, Tim Atkins, Victoria Collins, Damian Gullis, Jonathan Mackinlay, Craig Bacon, Gareth Costa, Alberto Halfon, rh Robert Mackrory, Cherilyn Bacon, Mr Richard Courts, Robert Hall, Luke Maclean, Rachel Badenoch, Kemi Coutinho, Claire Hammond, Stephen Mak, Alan Bailey, Shaun Cox, rh Sir Geoffrey Hancock, rh Matt Malthouse, Kit Baillie, Siobhan Crabb, rh Stephen Hands, rh Greg Mangnall, Anthony Baker, Duncan Crosbie, Virginia Harper, rh Mr Mark Mann, Scott Baker, Mr Steve Crouch, Tracey Harris, Rebecca Marson, Julie Baldwin, Harriett Daly, James Harrison, Trudy May, rh Mrs Theresa Barclay, rh Steve Davies, David T. C. Hart, Sally-Ann Mayhew, Jerome Baron, Mr John Davies, Gareth Hart, rh Simon Maynard, Paul Baynes, Simon Davies, Dr James Hayes, rh Sir John McCartney, Karl Bell, Aaron Davies, Mims Heald, rh Sir Oliver McPartland, Stephen Benton, Scott Davies, Philip Heappey, James McVey, rh Esther Beresford, Sir Paul Davis, rh Mr David Heaton-Harris, Chris Menzies, Mark Berry, rh Jake Davison, Dehenna Henderson, Gordon Mercer, Johnny Bhatti, Saqib Dinenage, Caroline Henry, Darren Merriman, Huw Blackman, Bob Dines, Miss Sarah Higginbotham, Antony Metcalfe, Stephen Blunt, Crispin Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hinds, rh Damian Millar, Robin Bowie, Andrew Donelan, Michelle Hoare, Simon Miller, rh Mrs Maria Bradley, Ben Dorries, Ms Nadine Holden, Mr Richard Bradley, rh Karen Double, Steve Hollinrake, Kevin Milling, rh Amanda Brady, Sir Graham Dowden, rh Oliver Hollobone, Mr Philip Mills, Nigel Braverman, rh Suella Doyle-Price, Jackie Holloway, Adam Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Brereton, Jack Drax, Richard Holmes, Paul Mohindra, Mr Gagan Bridgen, Andrew Drummond, Mrs Flick Howell, John Moore, Damien Brine, Steve Duddridge, James Howell, Paul Moore, Robbie Bristow, Paul Duguid, David Huddleston, Nigel Mordaunt, rh Penny Britcliffe, Sara Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Hudson, Dr Neil Morris, Anne Marie Brokenshire, rh James Dunne, rh Philip Hughes, Eddie Morris, David Browne, Anthony Eastwood, Mark Hunt, Jane Morris, James Bruce, Fiona Edwards, Ruth Hunt, rh Jeremy Morrissey, Joy Buchan, Felicity Ellis, rh Michael Hunt, Tom Morton, Wendy Buckland, rh Robert Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Jack, rh Mr Alister Mullan, Dr Kieran Burghart, Alex Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Javid, rh Sajid Mumby-Croft, Holly Burns, rh Conor Eustice, rh George Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Mundell, rh David Butler, Rob Evans, Dr Luke Jenkin, Sir Bernard Murray, Mrs Sheryll Cairns, rh Alun Evennett, rh Sir David Jenkinson, Mark Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Carter, Andy Everitt, Ben Jenkyns, Andrea Neill, Sir Robert Cartlidge, James Fabricant, Michael Jenrick, rh Robert Nici, Lia Cash, Sir William Farris, Laura Johnson, rh Boris Norman, rh Jesse Cates, Miriam Fell, Simon Johnson, Dr Caroline O’Brien, Neil 607 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 608
Offord, Dr Matthew Stephenson, Andrew Cooper, Rosie Jones, rh Mr Kevan Opperman, Guy Stevenson, Jane Cooper, rh Yvette Jones, Ruth Parish, Neil Stevenson, John Corbyn, rh Jeremy Jones, Sarah Patel, rh Priti Stewart, rh Bob Coyle, Neil Kane, Mike Paterson, rh Mr Owen Stewart, Iain Creasy, Stella Keeley, Barbara Pawsey, Mark Streeter, Sir Gary Cruddas, Jon Kendall, Liz Penning, rh Sir Mike Stride, rh Mel Cryer, John Khan, Afzal Penrose, John Stuart, Graham Cummins, Judith Kinnock, Stephen Percy, Andrew Sturdy, Julian Cunningham, Alex Kyle, Peter Philp, Chris Sunak, rh Rishi Daby, Janet Lake, Ben Pincher, rh Christopher Sunderland, James Davey, rh Ed Lammy, rh Mr David Poulter, Dr Dan Syms, Sir Robert David, Wayne Lavery, Ian Pow, Rebecca Thomas, Derek Davies, Geraint Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Prentis, Victoria Throup, Maggie Davies-Jones, Alex Lewis, Clive Pritchard, rh Mark Timpson, Edward De Cordova, Marsha Lloyd, Tony Pursglove, Tom Tolhurst, Kelly Debbonaire, Thangam Lockhart, Carla Quin, Jeremy Tomlinson, Justin Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Long Bailey, Rebecca Quince, Will Tracey, Craig Dodds, Anneliese Lucas, Caroline Raab, rh Dominic Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Lynch, Holly Randall, Tom Trott, Laura Doughty, Stephen Madders, Justin Redwood, rh John Truss, rh Elizabeth Dowd, Peter Mahmood, Mr Khalid Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Tugendhat, Tom Dromey, Jack Mahmood, Shabana Richards, Nicola Vara, Mr Shailesh Duffield, Rosie Malhotra, Seema Richardson, Angela Vickers, Martin Eagle, Dame Angela Maskell, Rachael Roberts, Rob Vickers, Matt Eagle, Maria Matheson, Christian Robertson, Mr Laurence Villiers, rh Theresa Eastwood, Colum McCabe, Steve Robinson, Mary Wakeford, Christian Edwards, Jonathan McCarthy, Kerry Rosindell, Andrew Walker, Sir Charles Efford, Clive McCartney, Jason Ross, Douglas Walker, Mr Robin Elliott, Julie McDonagh, Siobhain Rowley, Lee Wallace, rh Mr Ben Elmore, Chris McDonald, Andy Russell, Dean Wallis, Dr Jamie Eshalomi, Florence McDonnell, rh John Rutley, David Warburton, David Esterson, Bill McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sambrook, Gary Warman, Matt Evans, Chris McGinn, Conor Saxby, Selaine Watling, Giles Farron, Tim McGovern, Alison Scully, Paul Webb, Suzanne Farry, Stephen McKinnell, Catherine Seely, Bob Whately, Helen Ferrier, Margaret McMahon, Jim Selous, Andrew Wheeler, Mrs Heather Fovargue, Yvonne McMorrin, Anna Shapps, rh Grant Whittaker, Craig Foxcroft, Vicky Mearns, Ian Sharma, rh Alok Whittingdale, rh Mr John Foy, Mary Kelly Miliband, rh Edward Shelbrooke, rh Alec Wiggin, Bill Gardiner, Barry Mishra, Navendu Simmonds, David Wild, James Gill, Preet Kaur Moran, Layla Skidmore, rh Chris Williams, Craig Girvan, Paul Morden, Jessica Smith, Chloe Williamson, rh Gavin Glindon, Mary Morgan, Stephen Smith, Greg Wood, Mike Green, Kate Morris, Grahame Smith, Henry Wright, rh Jeremy Greenwood, Lilian Murray, Ian Smith, rh Julian Greenwood, Margaret Murray, James Young, Jacob Smith, Royston Griffith, Nia Nandy, Lisa Zahawi, Nadhim Solloway, Amanda Gwynne, Andrew Nichols, Charlotte Spencer, Dr Ben Tellers for the Ayes: Haigh, Louise Norris, Alex Spencer, rh Mark Leo Docherty and Hamilton, Fabian Olney, Sarah Stafford, Alexander Michael Tomlinson Hanna, Claire Onwurah, Chi Hardy, Emma Oppong-Asare, Abena NOES Harman, rh Ms Harriet Osamor, Kate Harris, Carolyn Osborne, Kate Abbott, rh Ms Diane Brennan, Kevin Hayes, Helen Owatemi, Taiwo Abrahams, Debbie Brown, Ms Lyn Healey, rh John Owen, Sarah Ali, Rushanara Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hendrick, Sir Mark Paisley, Ian Ali, Tahir Bryant, Chris Hillier, Meg Peacock, Stephanie Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Burgon, Richard Hobhouse, Wera Pennycook, Matthew Amesbury, Mike Butler, Dawn Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Perkins, Mr Toby Anderson, Fleur Byrne, Ian Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Phillips, Jess Antoniazzi, Tonia Byrne, rh Liam Hollern, Kate Phillipson, Bridget Ashworth, rh Jonathan Cadbury, Ruth Hopkins, Rachel Pollard, Luke Barker, Paula Campbell, rh Sir Alan Howarth, rh Sir George Powell, Lucy Beckett, rh Margaret Campbell, Mr Gregory Huq, Dr Rupa Qureshi, Yasmin Begum, Apsana Carden, Dan Hussain, Imran Rayner, rh Angela Benn, rh Hilary Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Jardine, Christine Reed, Steve Betts, Mr Clive Chamberlain, Wendy Jarvis, Dan Rees, Christina Blake, Olivia Champion, Sarah Johnson, rh Dame Diana Reeves, Ellie Blomfield, Paul Charalambous, Bambos Johnson, Kim Reeves, Rachel Brabin, Tracy Clark, Feryal Jones, Darren Reynolds, Jonathan Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Cooper, Daisy Jones, Gerald Ribeiro-Addy, Bell 609 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 Domestic Abuse Bill 610
Rimmer, Ms Marie Thomas, Gareth I rise to present a petition on behalf of the 3,261 Robinson, Gavin Thomas-Symonds, rh Nick residents and businesses of York who are committed to Rodda, Matt Thornberry, rh Emily local government reorganisation maintaining the integrity Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Timms, rh Stephen of the City of York Council unitary authority boundaries Saville Roberts, rh Liz Trickett, Jon while North Yorkshire County Council moves from a Shah, Naz Turner, Karl two-tier to a one-tier authority as part of local government Shannon, Jim Twigg, Derek Sharma, Mr Virendra Twist, Liz reorganisation proposed for North Yorkshire. It is our Sheerman, Mr Barry Vaz, rh Valerie very firm belief that the future of York’s economy is Siddiq, Tulip Webbe, Claudia best served through the focus that the city provides, that Slaughter, Andy West, Catherine services best meet local need when they are provided Smith, Cat Western, Matt locally, and that the proud identity of local people will Smith, Jeff Whitehead, Dr Alan best be retained in our special city of York after 800 years Smith, Nick Whitley, Mick of a clear and distinct identity of York being York. This Smyth, Karin Whittome, Nadia strong core to North Yorkshire will best meet the needs Sobel, Alex Williams, Hywel of the rest of North Yorkshire, too, rather than some Spellar, rh John Wilson, Munira random east-west proposal that serves no one’s interests. Starmer, rh Keir Wilson, rh Sammy Stevens, Jo The petition states: Winter, Beth Stone, Jamie The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons Yasin, Mohammad Streeting, Wes urge the Government to listen closely to York’s residents and Zeichner, Daniel Stringer, Graham businesses and to the City of York Council’s submission to its Sultana, Zarah Tellers for the Noes: consultation on local government devolution, and to work with Tami, rh Mark Gill Furniss and all local politicians, including MPs, city councillors and parish Tarry, Sam Colleen Fletcher and town councillors, on any decisions to do with York’s council. Following is the full text of the petition: Question accordingly agreed to. [The petition of residents of York Central, Lords amendment 43 disagreed to. Declares that York’s residents and businesses are best The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a served by having an independent council, on its current proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their boundaries, that is focused solely on their needs and proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. provides the basis for economic opportunity, high quality public services and a stronger community; further declares 5.5 pm concern that if York is merged into a new council stretching 65 miles north to south there could be an increase in Proceedings interrupted (Programme Order, this day). council tax by £117 per year; further that this would The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Questions necessary inevitably mean that resources could be diverted from for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that York and residents would pay more money for poorer time (Standing Order No. 83F). services; further that this would lead to the end of the Lords amendment 83 disagreed to. 800-year connection between the city and its council; Lords amendments 44 to 82 and 84 to 86 agreed to. further that the role of Lord Mayor might be scrapped; Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing further that the disruption to key service delivery across Order No. 83H), That a Committee be appointed to York would cost millions of pounds to implement; and drawup Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing further that it would be disastrous to do this during a to their amendments 1, 2, 3, 9, 33, 37, 38, 40, 41, public health crisis. 43 and 83. The petitioners therefore request that the House of That Victoria Atkins,Tom Pursglove,Michael Tomlinson Commons urge the Government to listen closely to York’s and Chris Elmore be members of the Committee. residents and businesses and to the City of York Council’s submission to its consultation on local government devolution, That Victoria Atkins be the Chair of the Committee. and to work with all local politicians, including MPs, city That three be the quorum of the Committee. councillors and parish and town councillors, on any decisions That the Committee do withdraw immediately.— to do with York’s council. (Michael Tomlinson.) And the petitioners remain, etc.] Question agreed to. [P002658] Committee to withdraw immediately; reasons to be reported and communicated to the Lords. Residents of Mary Feilding Guild care home
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): In Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab): I order to observe social distancing, the Reasons Committee am very pleased to present a petition in the Chamber will meet in Committee Room 12. today,on behalf of hundreds of members of the community in Hornsey and Wood Green, relating to the Mary Feilding PETITIONS Guild care home—a particularly loved care home in Highgate that has recently been bought by a new owner. Independence of City of York Council The new owner has given elderly residents notice to move out by the end of next month, and the reply from 5.7 pm the Health and Social Care Minister to my urgent Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: In inquiry of 11 March is still outstanding. May I just add connection with this petition, I must mention that four that one of the residents passed away this week? She of my employees are currently City of York councillors. had a stroke and died yesterday. 611 Domestic Abuse Bill 15 APRIL 2021 612
[Catherine West] English Language Sector The petition states: Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Rebecca Harris.) The petition of residents of the constituency of Hornsey and Wood Green, 5.10 pm Declares that it is appalling that the new owners of the Mary Feilding Guild have issued eviction notices to the elderly residents Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con): It is a during a pandemic; further that this is no way to treat vulnerable pleasure to rise to speak in this Adjournment debate older people who have already been through such a difficult year. this afternoon and to conclude the formal business of The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons the House this week, in which we gathered to pay tribute urge the Government to call on the owners to halt their plans to His Royal Highness the Duke of Edinburgh. I would immediately, cancel the eviction notices and instead work with like to add my own tributes to the Duke. The Duke held residents to save their homes. a popular misconception about the town of Bournemouth, And the petitioners remain, etc. which I represent, which he demonstrated to me on one [P002659] occasion in Buckingham Palace when he said, “Where are you from?” I said, “Bournemouth, Sir.” He said, “Bournemouth, hmm. Full of old people.”I said, “Indeed, Sir. Many of them a good deal younger than you.” He looked thunderous for about three seconds, then burst out laughing and called the Queen over to tell her about the exchange. I rise to speak on a constituency interest, but also on a national interest. This debate is about the future of the English language sector. My constituency of Bournemouth West has a very high proportion of English language schools within it. It is one of the things that adds to the cultural social diversity of the town that I have the privilege to serve. It is—I rather sadly looked this up earlier—3,948 days since I rose in this Chamber to deliver my maiden speech in an Adjournment debate on the subject of the future of the English language sector. At the time, we were trying to persuade the Government to introduce an extended student visitor visa to allow those coming from beyond the nations with which we share an alphabet—places such as Japan, China and Korea—to have longer to visit to learn the fundamentals of the alphabet before they learned the language, which of course took a longer time. I am pleased to say that we were successful in persuading the Government to go down that course. In that debate, I tried to outline the importance of the English language sector to the UK. I said: “The English language is one of our greatest assets. English is the language of world commerce, and if we shut off the ability of those schools to thrive, to welcome people to our shores and to enable them to immerse themselves in our language, our culture and our values, in time we will look back and realise that we made a very fundamental mistake.”—[Official Report, 24 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 538.] I am pleased to say that we did not make that mistake. Despite various challenges, the sector has thrived over the years. The Prime Minister, when he was Foreign Secretary, used to boast of the statistic that one in seven of the kings, queens, presidents and prime ministers around the world had their education here in the United Kingdom. When I had the privilege of serving as the Minister of State for Trade Policy, I had co-responsibility for the international education strategy alongside the Minister of State in the Department for Education. We saw the vital importance of English in promoting Britain’sinterests overseas commercially, politically and socially. Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con): My right hon. Friend is making a fantastic speech about the importance of the English language sector and English language in schools, and he rightly identifies the point about soft 613 English Language Sector15 APRIL 2021 English Language Sector 614 power. Will he also reflect a little on the positive impact Of course, it is absolutely correct to say that the schools that being able to welcome people has on our constituencies were not mandated, but the reality is that, because of and our local economies? I have two English language the number of other very difficult decisions that the schools in Totnes, one of which sadly has not made it Government rightly had to take to protect the safety of through this crisis, but the other, which has, I hope will our population, they have had to close because their have a long and prosperous future. Does he agree that customers have not been able to travel to the UK to by securing their future, we can benefit both our soft enrol on those courses and their business have been power and our local community’s interest? dramatically impacted. I will say a word about that in a moment. Conor Burns: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, The Department says, and I understand why it is who as ever demonstrates what a powerful champion he saying this, that the schools are not eligible for the is for the community he serves. He is absolutely right, it restart grants as this funding is for the businesses in the is not just about the direct employment provided by the non-essential retail, hospitality, leisure, personal care schools in terms of their teaching staff and ancillary and accommodation sectors, and they were not mandated staff who support their work, but the host families who to close and therefore they are not eligible for support welcome students into their home as a vital part of the from the mandatory grants scheme, but they are eligible experience. One of the reasons, which I will come on to for support through the discretionary funding available a little bit later, why the response to the sector going to local authorities. In my own case, my local council is online is not quite as compelling as it at first may seem doing its level best to get support to those businesses. Of is that part of the experience is actually coming to the course, it is not as generous as it would have been under UK and going on cultural visits to Stonehenge, to see the preceding scheme had they been brought under its Westminster Abbey, Parliament and Salisbury Cathedral, auspices. and do all the things that people do when they are here. Business rates are in fact the largest single fixed costs— My hon. Friend is very wise to point out that the spend non-controllable costs—that businesses face and, bluntly, of these visitors is much higher than that of traditional it will make the difference between their surviving or visitors in the time they are here, so the benefit to going under. As I said 10 years ago or nearly 11 years our local economies is enormous. That is before we even ago, I think we will look back with regret if we see this consider the long-term, slow-burn benefit we get as the sector go under for the want of a relatively modest people who have come here, studied here and immersed element of support. Ministers these days—I suppose I themselves in our language, culture and cultural traditions was guilty of it as well—use the word “investment” as —and have been, although perhaps not in recent years, though it is synonymous with spending, and much of it inspired by our parliamentary democracy—return as is actually just spending, not investment, because one champions for the United Kingdom in their home countries. gets a return on investment. As they grow into positions of political and commercial leadership in their home countries, often that benefit is This would be an investment because, for the reasons returned to the UK in contracts awarded and supply I have articulated, this sector is so vital to the UK. It is chains enhanced, so it is very powerful indeed. worth about £1.4 billion in value added, with 35,000 Of the Minister, for whom I have the highest regard, I jobs, and is part of the wider £20 billion international note that in The Times yesterday the brilliant sketch education sector. Some 91% of the employees in the writer Quentin Letts referred to him coming to do an sector have been either furloughed or sacked. Student urgent question earlier in the week, saying that numbers are down by 79% on 2019. The hopes of a longed-for summer recovery have been hit badly by the “the Whips fielded their second-string punchbag, a business outbreak of and renewed rise in cases in some of the minister”. main countries that we attract students from. Only Well, I am not going to punch my hon. Friend, but I 17 local authorities across the whole UK are providing know he understands this issue and this sector, and is business rate relief to these schools. indeed sympathetic to the cause I am trying to advance on its behalf. The ask of the sector is straightforward. I am not asking for a commitment from the Minister today, but I want to get on to the business end of the problem could he undertake to go away and look at this and we currently face. Like many other sectors, those in this meet me and representatives of the sector to talk about sector have been profoundly affected by the implications what further support could be put in place to help the of the covid crisis. One of the things they need is sector? Could we extend the business rate relief to financial support to survive and be in a position to language schools in the same way as we have for other reopen when normal commercial travel is resumed and leisure and hospitality businesses for the current financial we can welcome students again to the United Kingdom year and into the next financial year? We have already to study.They have been disappointed and I think perhaps seen 13%—more than 50 educational centres—close even bemused to find this in the guidance issued by the during the pandemic, which is a serious and regrettable Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy situation and, sadly, one that I predict will get worse if in February 2021. Question 4 in the question and answer we do not do something in the coming months. section asks: “Are schools and education providers eligible to receive grants Could we extend the List of Travellers scheme post under the LRSG (Closed) Addendum: 5 January onwards, and October 2021, so that third party national school groups Closed Businesses Lockdown Payment Schemes?” would not need visas to come to the United Kingdom? The answer is: Could we look at extending again something that was “Schools and education providers, including English language offered up 11 years ago in return for the extended schools, tutoring services, private and state schools, are not mandated student visitor visa: limited rights to work for students to close in the regulations and are therefore not eligible to receive who are in the UK? I see my hon. Friend the Member a grant under these schemes.” for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson) 615 English Language Sector15 APRIL 2021 English Language Sector 616
[Conor Burns] The Government continue to work closely with local authorities to make sure that grant funding can get to on the Treasury Bench, and the hospitality sector is the businesses that need it as soon as is practicable, but, very important to our part of the UK in Dorset. Businesses as my right hon. Friend said, there are clearly businesses in the sector are struggling, post our departure from the that we need to continue to work with to see what can European Union, to find the staff to populate hotels be done to support them, because we want to ensure and restaurants as they prepare to reopen, due to people that every business, no matter what area they are trading returning from this country to their home countries. or working in, that has the reach of language schools This could be a very good way to give them some and the soft power that my hon. Friend the Member for respite. Those are just some of the small things that we Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) talked about, can continue could look to do. to flourish, and indeed attract new businesses to open within that space. I pay tribute to local authority staff, Anthony Mangnall: I apologise for having two bites at who have been working hard over the course of the the cherry, as it were, but does my right hon. Friend pandemic to get these schemes in place and money out agree that we might try to make it easier for people to to businesses, under extreme pressure of illness to set up English language schools? We have lost some, as themselves, as well as covering the additional work that he has outlined, but being able to set up English language local authorities have had to take up. schools when normality returns would be a strong way However, the business grants programme forms only to fulfil the points that he has made. part of the massive support package put in place throughout Conor Burns: I absolutely agree with and endorse the the course of the pandemic. Since March 2020, in sentiment that my hon. Friend expresses. When I travelled addition to £20 billion in grants, we have provided as a Trade Minister, I was struck by the very fond £10 billion in business rates holidays and £73 billion in reflections that the people I met had of their time in the loans and guarantees, supporting every sector of the UK—people in Chile, Brazil and even in Vietnam. economy. Through the GREAT brand, we put some extra money I recognise the long-standing support of my right into promoting the English language sector and other hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth West for the aspects of our educational provision. One massively English language schools sector. I forget how many untapped area where the UK is a world leader is special days ago it was, but as he noted he first raised this issue educational needs, and we could do an awful lot to in his maiden speech, in an Adjournment debate, unusually share that with other countries around the world. in this place. There are many such businesses in his We are not the only place where can come to learn constituency and he is doing exactly what a constituency English—we might be the best, but we are not the only MP should do: standing up for businesses in his constituency one. Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the United States and the people who benefit from them. My right hon. and Ireland are all competing for students in this market, Friend mentioned that the sketch writer Quentin Letts and they are doing lots of things to make life easier for described me as a “second-string punch-bag”, and it those seeking to come and study in those countries, occurs to me that people can only start to pick up such such as accessible visa applications, in-country visa idioms by coming to language schools in this country, extensions and part-time work rights. The Prime Minister otherwise they might be sitting scratching their heads very much shared my long-term bugbear about the fact while reading the international press. that we should remove international students from the Throughout this pandemic we have taken difficult net migration figures, because it sends a very negative decisions on whether and when to require some businesses message internationally and confuses our offer to the to close by law, and they were not taken lightly. We wider world. recognise that many businesses have made huge sacrifices That is all that I want to say on this subject, because I in recent months. Where closures have been required, want to leave plenty of time for the Minister to reply, they have been in business units where significant numbers but what I am really saying to him is, will he undertake of people are likely to come into contact: retail, hospitality, to look at this and work with me and the sector to see leisure, personal care, hotels and some others. But, as what we can do to support this incredibly powerful my right hon. Friend noted, English language schools national asset that is so pivotal to our ambition to be were not mandated to close in the regulations, as it was global Britain? believed that these types of businesses, along with other education providers, could access online markets, but 5.24 pm he has eloquently outlined their ongoing situation and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, the pressures they face. Only those businesses that were Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully): I congratulate mandated to close in the regulations were eligible for my right hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth mandatory scheme support such as the local restrictions West (Conor Burns) on securing today’s important support grant (closed) and variations thereof, which debate and want to start by noting that the Government includes the scheme that covered the national lockdown have introduced an unprecedented package of support period from 5 January onwards. for businesses, including grants for those businesses that The restart grant scheme, which launched on 1 April are required to close or that are severely affected by this year and goes hand in hand with the Prime Minister’s restrictions put in place to tackle covid-19 and save road map, supports businesses in the non-essential retail, lives. With the new restart grant scheme available from hospitality, accommodation, leisure, personal care and April the Government will have allocated a total of gym sectors, to enable them to reopen to customers and £25 billion solely on business grants in the £352 billion get those sectors back to as close to normal as possible. total package. To put that in context, that is about two Unfortunately, English language schools again find or three times greater than the NHS budget for a themselves not eligible, as they do not meet the sector normal year. definitions set out for the restart grant scheme. 617 English Language Sector15 APRIL 2021 English Language Sector 618
However, a number of business sectors—English Friend the Chancellor has confirmed will run until language schools among them—have clearly been severely June 2021, and the various loan and finance-guarantee affected by the restrictions, even though they have not schemes that have been in place throughout the pandemic. been required to close; some home-based businesses The position for English language schools is that although and businesses outside the business rates system find they have not been required by law to close, their trade themselves in the same position. That is why we have has been affected by the restrictions. I encourage the made substantial grant support available for local authorities sector to explore, with the relevant local authorities, to develop local discretionary schemes—that is, the whether English language schools are eligible for a additional restrictions grant. covid-19 business grant from the additional restriction Under the scheme, more than £2 billion has been grant scheme, at the local authorities’ discretion. allocated to local authorities since November 2020. As my right hon. Friend will be aware, the Chancellor Local authorities have the discretion to use the funding announced at the Budget the continuation of several to support businesses as they see fit. The scheme is open business-support measures to provide a platform as the to all businesses from all sectors that were severely economy reopens. I am hopeful that, taken in the round, impacted by restrictions, including English language the package of support that we have put in place for schools. Crucially, it is for local authorities, which know businesses—the grants, loans, furloughs and others their local economies better than we in central Government measures—is substantial and offers support both for do, to make sure that the discretionary support that those businesses required to close and those that have they put in place is proportionate and tailored to the been open but have had their trade affected. local circumstances. I know that my right hon. Friend will continue to be a I am personally speaking to local authorities to press strong advocate for the sector and look forward to them to get funding out of the door as quickly as is continuing this conversation. I am happy to take him up practicable. The Chancellor gave an extra £425 million on his offer to meet to converse and see what more we in additional restrictions grant money to local authorities, can do to support businesses—not just English language but only if they had used up their original allocation. I schools but other businesses, too—in his constituency call on local authorities to use that extra allocation with not only reopening but recovery and beyond. I am either to give more money to the businesses covered by grateful to him for bringing this matter to the House their local policies or, as my right hon. Friend is rightly and being such a strong champion for the sector and for asking for, to look into expanding their local policies to the businesses in his constituency. encompass businesses that continue to fall between the Question put and agreed to. cracks. I hope that the sector is also making use of the remainder of the Government business support offer, 5.31 pm including the job support scheme, which my right hon. House adjourned. 619 15 APRIL 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 620
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Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) Chris Elmore Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) Stuart Andrew (Lab) (Con) Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Chris Elmore Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton Owen Thompson Isleworth) (Lab) East) (SNP) Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) Stuart Andrew Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con) Stuart Andrew Amy Callaghan (East Dunbartonshire) Owen Thompson Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Stuart Andrew (SNP) Aylesford) (Con) Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Owen Thompson Jon Cruddas (Dagenham and Chris Elmore Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP) Rainham) (Lab) Sir Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Con) Chris Elmore John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) Chris Elmore Mr Gregory Campbell (East Jim Shannon (Lab) Londonderry) (DUP) Judith Cummins (Bradford South) Chris Elmore Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Lab) Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) Chris Elmore James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con) Stuart Andrew Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Miriam Cates (Penistone and Stuart Andrew James Daly (Bury North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stocksbridge) (Con) Ed Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) Mr Alistair Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con) Stuart Andrew (LD) Carmichael Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) Mr Alistair Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab) Chris Elmore (LD) Carmichael David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Gareth Davies (Grantham and Stuart Andrew Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and Owen Thompson Stamford) (Con) West Fife) (SNP) Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/ Chris Elmore Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Chris Elmore Co-op) Southgate) (Lab) Dr James Davies (Vale of Clwyd) (Con) Stuart Andrew Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) Owen Thompson Mims Davies (Mid Sussex) (Con) Stuart Andrew (SNP) Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab) Chris Elmore Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Stuart Andrew Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Rainham) (Con) Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Stuart Andrew Jo Churchill (Bury St Edmunds) (Con) Stuart Andrew Howden) (Con) Feryal Clark (Enfield North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Dehenna Davison (Bishop Auckland) Ben Everitt Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Mr Simon Clarke (Middlesbrough Stuart Andrew Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Owen Thompson South and East Cleveland) (Con) Falkirk) (SNP) Theo Clarke (Stafford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) Chris Elmore Brendan Clarke-Smith (Bassetlaw) Stuart Andrew (Lab) (Con) Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Chris Clarkson (Heywood and Stuart Andrew Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) Chris Elmore Middleton) (Con) (Lab) James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con) Stuart Andrew Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) Stuart Andrew Miss Sarah Dines (Derbyshire Dales) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Stuart Andrew Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) Stuart Andrew Wallington) (Con) (Con) Damian Collins (Folkestone and Stuart Andrew Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Owen Thompson Hythe) (Con) Dunbartonshire) (SNP) Anneliese Dodds (Oxford East) (Lab/ Chris Elmore Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD) Mr Alistair Co-op) Carmichael Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Jim Shannon Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab) Chris Elmore Valley) (DUP) Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract Chris Elmore Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con) Stuart Andrew and Castleford) (Lab) Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP) Owen Thompson Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Owen Thompson Alberto Costa (South Leicestershire) Stuart Andrew Cumnock) (SNP) (Con) Ms Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) Stuart Andrew Robert Courts (Witney) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Claire Coutinho (East Surrey) (Con) Stuart Andrew Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) Stuart Andrew Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP) Owen Thompson (Con) Sir Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Stuart Andrew Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Chris Elmore Devon) (Con) Penarth) (Lab) Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Chris Elmore Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab) Chris Elmore Southwark) (Lab) Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con) Stuart Andrew 623 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote15 APRIL 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 624
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Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) Chris Elmore (Lab) (Lab) Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Stuart Andrew Mrs Flick Drummond (Meon Valley) Stuart Andrew Wickford) (Con) (Con) Lucy Frazer (South East Stuart Andrew James Duddridge (Rochford and Stuart Andrew Cambridgeshire) (Con) Southend East) (Con) George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Stuart Andrew David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) Stuart Andrew Green) (Con) (Con) Richard Fuller (North East Stuart Andrew Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Stuart Andrew Bedfordshire) (Con) Woodford Green) (Con) Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) (Con) Stuart Andrew Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab) Chris Elmore Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) Chris Elmore Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con) Stuart Andrew Colum Eastwood (Foyle) (SDLP) Ben Lake Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Stuart Andrew Mark Eastwood (Dewsbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew Littlehampton) (Con) Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East Stuart Andrew Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Owen Thompson and Dinefwr) (Ind) Arran) (SNP) Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con) Stuart Andrew Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con) Stuart Andrew Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) Stuart Andrew Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Michael Ellis (Northampton North) Stuart Andrew Preet Kaur Gill (Birmingham, Chris Elmore (Con) Edgbaston) (Lab/Co-op) Paul Girvan (South Antrim) (DUP) Jim Shannon Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth Stuart Andrew East) (Con) John Glen (Salisbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mrs Natalie Elphicke (Dover) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab) Chris Elmore Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore Mr Robert Goodwill (Scarborough and Stuart Andrew op) Whitby) (Con) Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Michael Gove (Surrey Heath) (Con) Stuart Andrew George Eustice (Camborne and Stuart Andrew Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP) Owen Thompson Redruth) (Con) Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con) Stuart Andrew Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op) Chris Elmore Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Stuart Andrew Weald) (Con) Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con) Stuart Andrew Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP) Owen Thompson Sir David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Stuart Andrew Crayford) (Con) James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) Stuart Andrew Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Damian Green (Ashford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con) Stuart Andrew Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) Chris Elmore Laura Farris (Newbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Tim Farron (Westmorland and Mr Alistair Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) Chris Elmore Lonsdale) (LD) Carmichael (Lab) Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance) Mr Alistair Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) Chris Elmore Carmichael (Lab) Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Stuart Andrew Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Owen Thompson Downs) (Con) Wishaw) (SNP) Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab) Chris Elmore Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Stuart Andrew Kate Griffiths (Burton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Hamilton West) (Ind) James Grundy (Leigh) (Con) Stuart Andrew Katherine Fletcher (South Ribble) Stuart Andrew Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent Stuart Andrew (Con) North) (Con) Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Chris Elmore Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Reddish) (Lab) Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) Owen Thompson Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab) Chris Elmore (SNP) Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con) Stuart Andrew Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Luke Hall (Thornbury and Yate) (Con) Stuart Andrew Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con) Stuart Andrew Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) Chris Elmore Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Lab) Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) Stuart Andrew Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) Chris Elmore (Con) (Lab) Matt Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew 625 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote15 APRIL 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 626
Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy
Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham) Stuart Andrew Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) Chris Elmore (Con) (Lab) Claire Hanna (Belfast South) (SDLP) Ben Lake Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull Chris Elmore Mr Alister Jack (Dumfries and Stuart Andrew West and Hessle) (Lab) Galloway) (Con) Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Chris Elmore Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) Mr Alistair Peckham) (Lab) (LD) Carmichael Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con) Stuart Andrew Rebecca Harris (Castle Point) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Ranil Jayawardena (North East Stuart Andrew Trudy Harrison (Copeland) (Con) Stuart Andrew Hampshire) (Con) Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) Stuart Andrew Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and Stuart Andrew (Con) North Essex) (Con) Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and Stuart Andrew Mark Jenkinson (Workington) (Con) Stuart Andrew South Pembrokeshire) (Con) Andrea Jenkyns (Morley and Stuart Andrew Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Chris Elmore Outwood) (Con) Norwood) (Lab) Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir John Hayes (South Holland and Stuart Andrew Boris Johnson (Uxbridge and South Stuart Andrew The Deepings) (Con) Ruislip) (Con) Sir Oliver Heald (North East Stuart Andrew Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and Stuart Andrew Hertfordshire) (Con) North Hykeham) (Con) John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) Chris Elmore Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Chris Elmore (Lab) Hull North) (Lab) James Heappey (Wells) (Con) Stuart Andrew Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con) Stuart Andrew Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) Chris Elmore Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Stuart Andrew (Lab) Sheppey) (Con) David Johnston (Wantage) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore Darren Jones (Bristol North West) Chris Elmore op) (Lab) Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Owen Thompson Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con) Stuart Andrew Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP) Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) Stuart Andrew Darren Henry (Broxtowe) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Chris Elmore Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Chris Elmore Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op) Rhymney) (Lab) Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) Chris Elmore Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD) Mr Alistair Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Carmichael Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Dame Margaret Hodge (Barking) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sarah Jones (Croydon Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Chris Elmore Simon Jupp (East Devon) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sunderland West) (Lab) Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale Chris Elmore Mr Richard Holden (North West Stuart Andrew East) (Lab) Durham) (Con) Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Stuart Andrew Kate Hollern (Blackburn) (Lab) Chris Elmore Atcham) (Con) Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) Stuart Andrew Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Melton) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Adam Holloway (Gravesham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Gillian Keegan (Chichester) (Con) Stuart Andrew Paul Holmes (Eastleigh) (Con) Stuart Andrew Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles Chris Elmore Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab) Chris Elmore South) (Lab) Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP) Owen Thompson Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sir George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab) Chris Elmore Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) Chris Elmore (Lab) John Howell (Henley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab) Chris Elmore Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire) Stuart Andrew (Con) Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dr Neil Hudson (Penrith and The Stuart Andrew Danny Kruger (Devizes) (Con) Stuart Andrew Border) (Con) Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con) Stuart Andrew Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab) Chris Elmore Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Jeremy Hunt (South West Surrey) Stuart Andrew John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh Stuart Andrew (Con) and Selkirk) (Con) Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con) Stuart Andrew Robert Largan (High Peak) (Con) Stuart Andrew 627 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote15 APRIL 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 628
Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy
Mrs Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) Mr William Wragg Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North Owen Thompson (Con) East) (SNP) Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Rachel Maclean (Redditch) (Con) Stuart Andrew Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP) Owen Thompson Jim McMahon (Oldham West and Chris Elmore Andrea Leadsom (South Stuart Andrew Royton) (Lab) Northamptonshire) (Con) Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) Stuart Andrew John Mc Nally (Falkirk) (SNP) Owen Thompson (Con) Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na Owen Thompson Ian Levy (Blyth Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Chris Elmore Stephen McPartland (Stevenage) (Con) Stuart Andrew Shields) (Lab) Esther McVey (Tatton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andrew Lewer (Northampton South) Stuart Andrew (Con) Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Chris Elmore Neston) (Lab) Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) Stuart Andrew (Con) Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Chris Elmore Barr) (Lab) Clive Lewis (Norwich South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Chris Elmore Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) Stuart Andrew Ladywood) (Lab) (Con) Alan Mak (Havant) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater Stuart Andrew and West Somerset) (Con) Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) Chris Elmore (Lab) David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP) Owen Thompson Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab) Chris Elmore Kit Malthouse (North West Stuart Andrew Hampshire) (Con) Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP) Jim Shannon Julie Marson (Hertford and Stortford) Stuart Andrew Mark Logan (Bolton North East) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Bell Ribeiro-Addy Eccles) (Lab) Christian Matheson (City of Chester) Chris Elmore (Lab) Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mrs Theresa May (Maidenhead) (Con) Stuart Andrew Julia Lopez (Hornchurch and Stuart Andrew Upminster) (Con) Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stuart Andrew Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Stuart Andrew Stoke) (Con) Cleveleys) (Con) Mr Jonathan Lord (Woking) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Stuart Andrew Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con) Stuart Andrew Shoreham) (Con) Johnny Mercer (Plymouth, Moor View) Stuart Andrew Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Con) (Green) Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) Stuart Andrew Holly Lynch (Halifax) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Chris Elmore Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and Stuart Andrew Oak) (Lab) East Thurrock) (Con) Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) Chris Elmore (Lab) Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con) Stuart Andrew Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con) Stuart Andrew Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Chris Elmore Morden) (Lab) Amanda Milling (Cannock Chase) Stuart Andrew (Con) Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) Chris Elmore (Lab) Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow Owen Thompson Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab) Chris Elmore South) (SNP) Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) Stuart Andrew Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Owen Thompson (Con) Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP) Gagan Mohindra (South West Stuart Andrew John McDonnell (Hayes and Bell Ribeiro-Addy Hertfordshire) (Con) Harlington) (Lab) Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North Owen Thompson Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton Chris Elmore West) South East) (Lab) Damien Moore (Southport) (Con) Stuart Andrew Conor McGinn (St Helens North) Chris Elmore Robbie Moore (Keighley) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Layla Moran (Oxford West and Mr Alistair Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Abingdon) (LD) Carmichael Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con) Stuart Andrew Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) Stuart Andrew Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Chris Elmore (Con) Tyne North) (Lab) Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Cherilyn Mackrory (Truro and Stuart Andrew Stephen Morgan (Portsmouth South) Chris Elmore Falmouth) (Con) (Lab) 629 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote15 APRIL 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 630
Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy
Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) Stuart Andrew Sir Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) David Morris (Morecambe and Stuart Andrew Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Chris Elmore Lunesdale) (Con) Woolwich) (Lab) Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab) Chris Elmore John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) Stuart Andrew Joy Morrissey (Beaconsfield) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) Stuart Andrew Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con) Antony (Con) Higginbotham Dr Kieran Mullan (Crewe and Stuart Andrew Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab) Chris Elmore Nantwich) (Con) Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) Chris Elmore Holly Mumby-Croft (Scunthorpe) Stuart Andrew (Lab) (Con) Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Chris Elmore David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Stuart Andrew Sunderland South) (Lab) Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con) Chris Philp (Croydon South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con) Stuart Andrew James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Chris Elmore op) Devonport) (Lab/Co-op) Mrs Sheryll Murray (South East Stuart Andrew Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and Stuart Andrew Cornwall) (Con) North Ipswich) (Con) Andrew Murrison (South West Stuart Andrew Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con) Stuart Andrew Wiltshire) (Con) Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) Chris Elmore Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Lab/Co-op) Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Stuart Andrew Victoria Prentis (Banbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew Chislehurst) (Con) Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con) Stuart Andrew Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Owen Thompson Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Renfrewshire North) (SNP) Will Quince (Colchester) (Con) Stuart Andrew Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) Chris Elmore Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) Chris Elmore (Lab) (Lab) Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) Stuart Andrew John Nicolson (Ochil and South Owen Thompson (Con) Perthshire) (SNP) Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con) Stuart Andrew Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Stuart Andrew Angela Rayner (Ashton-under-Lyne) Chris Elmore Southampton North) (Con) (Lab) Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Stuart Andrew John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Herefordshire) (Con) Steve Reed (Croydon North) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore Alex Norris (Nottingham North) (Lab/ Chris Elmore op) Co-op) Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab) Chris Elmore Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Chris Elmore Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) Owen Thompson Penge) (Lab) (SNP) Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Chris Elmore Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD) Mr Alistair Hyde) (Lab) Carmichael Nicola Richards (West Bromwich East) Stuart Andrew Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Chris Elmore (Con) Central) (Lab) Angela Richardson (Guildford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ms Marie Rimmer (St Helens South Chris Elmore Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Chris Elmore and Whiston) (Lab) Thamesmead) (Lab) Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con) Stuart Andrew Kate Osamor (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) Stuart Andrew Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Con) Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) Owen Thompson Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP) Jim Shannon (SNP) Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con) Stuart Andrew Taiwo Owatemi (Coventry North West) Chris Elmore (Lab) Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP) Jim Shannon Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con) Stuart Andrew Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) Stuart Andrew Lee Rowley (North East Derbyshire) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Priti Patel (Witham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dean Russell (Watford) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) Stuart Andrew Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Chris Elmore (Con) Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op) Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con) Stuart Andrew Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Ben Lake Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) Chris Elmore Meirionnydd) (PC) (Lab) Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con) Stuart Andrew 631 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote15 APRIL 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 632
Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy
Paul Scully (Sutton and Cheam) (Con) Stuart Andrew Graham Stuart (Beverley and Stuart Andrew Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con) Mark Harper Holderness) (Con) Andrew Selous (South West Stuart Andrew Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con) Stuart Andrew Bedfordshire) (Con) Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Naz Shah (Bradford West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Rishi Sunak (Richmond (Yorks)) (Con) Stuart Andrew Grant Shapps (Welwyn Hatfield) (Con) Stuart Andrew James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con) Stuart Andrew Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest Mr William Wragg Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) Chris Elmore West) (Con) (Lab) Sir Robert Syms (Poole) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) Chris Elmore Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Lab/Co-op) Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) Owen Thompson Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) Stuart Andrew (SNP) (Con) Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con) Stuart Andrew Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) Owen Thompson Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/ Chris Elmore (SNP) Co-op) Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) Chris Elmore Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Lab) Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP) Owen Thompson David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood Stuart Andrew Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Chris Elmore and Pinner) (Con) Finsbury) (Lab) Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con) Stuart Andrew Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab) Chris Elmore Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) Owen Thompson Edward Timpson (Eddisbury) (Con) Stuart Andrew Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) Chris Elmore Kelly Tolhurst (Rochester and Strood) Stuart Andrew (Lab) (Con) Chloe Smith (Norwich North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) Stuart Andrew Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) Stuart Andrew Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) Chris Elmore (Con) (Lab) Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon- Stuart Andrew Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) Stuart Andrew Tweed) (Con) (Con) Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab) Chris Elmore Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con) Stuart Andrew Royston Smith (Southampton, Itchen) Stuart Andrew Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Stuart Andrew Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab) Chris Elmore Malling) (Con) Amanda Solloway (Derby North) Stuart Andrew Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) Chris Elmore (Con) (Lab) John Spellar (Warley) (Lab) Chris Elmore Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab) Chris Elmore Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Stuart Andrew Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab) Chris Elmore Weybridge) (Con) Mr Shailesh Vara (North West Stuart Andrew Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) Stuart Andrew Cambridgeshire) (Con) (Con) Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con) Stuart Andrew Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) Chris Elmore Matt Vickers (Stockton South) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Lab) Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) Stuart Andrew Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) Owen Thompson (Con) (SNP) Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con) Stuart Andrew Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston Stuart Andrew Jo Stevens (Cardiff Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore North) Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North Stuart Andrew Dr Jamie Wallis (Bridgend) (Con) Stuart Andrew East) (Con) David Warburton (Somerset and Stuart Andrew John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con) Stuart Andrew Frome) (Con) Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con) Stuart Andrew Matt Warman (Boston and Skegness) Stuart Andrew Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Giles Watling (Clacton) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Mr Alistair Suzanne Webb (Stourbridge) (Con) Stuart Andrew Easter Ross) (LD) Carmichael Claudia Webbe (Leicester East) (Ind) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Sir Gary Streeter (South West Devon) Stuart Andrew Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Chris Elmore (Con) Green) (Lab) Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Matt Western (Warwick and Chris Elmore Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con) Stuart Andrew Leamington) (Lab) Graham Stringer (Blackley and Chris Elmore Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Stuart Andrew Broughton) (Lab) Kent) (Con) 633 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote15 APRIL 2021 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 634
Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy
Mrs Heather Wheeler (South Stuart Andrew Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC) Ben Lake Derbyshire) (Con) Gavin Williamson (Montgomeryshire) Stuart Andrew Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Chris Elmore (Con) Test) (Lab) Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD) Mr Alistair Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Owen Thompson Carmichael Ayrshire) (SNP) Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP) Jim Shannon Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab) Chris Elmore Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Pete Wishart (Perth and North Owen Thompson Perthshire) (SNP) John Whittingdale (Malden) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con) Stuart Andrew Nadia Whittome (Nottingham East) Chris Elmore Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Stuart Andrew (Lab) Southam) (Con) Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) Stuart Andrew Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con) Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con) Stuart Andrew James Wild (North West Norfolk) Stuart Andrew Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) Stuart Andrew (Con) (Con) Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) Stuart Andrew Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Con)
77WH 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 78WH to Services With your indulgence, Sir Graham, I would like to Westminster Hall highlight that some of the issues we will discuss concern children with special educational needs, and when it comes to autistic spectrum disorders, there was one Member Thursday 15 April 2021 of this House who championed the issue, spoke in pretty much every debate on the subject, and chaired the all-party parliamentary group on autism. Cheryl Gillan [SIR GRAHAM BRADY in the Chair] is already much missed in this place, not least by me today. I know that she was a real expert and spoke with passion and knowledge in debates such as the one we BACKBENCH BUSINESS are having today. I am sure she would have been present to put on record her thoughts about access to services Covronavirus, Disability and Access for children with autistic spectrum disorders. to Services Relevant to this debate is our interim report, published [Relevant documents: First Report of the Women and in September last year, which was intended to inform Equalities Committee, “Unequal impact? Coronavirus, the first six-monthly review of the Coronavirus Act disability and access to services: interim Report on temporary 2020 temporary provisions.I will start by drawing attention provisions in the Coronavirus Act”, HC 386; and the to an important outstanding issue in this context—one Government Response, HC 1172.] that has not received a great deal of attention. The Virtual participation in proceedings commenced (Order, temporary provisions included unused provisions that 25 February). relaxed requirements for sectioning under the Mental [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] Health Act 1983, provisions that curtailed or restricted hard-won rights of disabled people to get the care and support that they needed in their everyday lives—the 1.30 pm so-called Care Act 2014 easements—and a power to Sir Graham Brady (in the Chair): I remind hon. modify duties under the Children and Families Act Members that there have been some changes to normal 2014 in relation to assessment and provision for children practice in order to support the hybrid arrangements. with special educational needs and disabilities. Timings of debates have been amended to allow technical arrangements to be made for the next debate. There will We welcomed the Government’s decision last year to also be suspensions between each debate. I remind repeal the unused Mental Health Act 1983 provisions. Members participating physically and virtually that they We very much welcome the recent decision to remove must arrive for the start of Westminster Hall debates, the Care Act 2014 easement provisions, and we look and that they are expected to remain for the entire forward to this happening as swiftly as possible. Perhaps debate. my hon. Friend the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work will chase that up with the Minister for Care I must also remind Members participating virtually at the Department for Health and Social Care. Although that they are visible at all times, both to each other and the easements were not widely used, their availability in to us in the Boothroyd Room. If Members attending statute exacerbated a perception, which has existed virtually have any technical problems, they should email among disabled people right from the outset of this the Westminster Hall Clerks’ email address. Members crisis, that their rights are somehow seen as less important attending physically should clean their spaces before than other people’s. they use them and as they leave the room. I also remind Members that Mr Speaker has stated that masks should The outstanding issue from our interim report is that be worn in Westminster Hall debates. one of the temporary provisions affecting young disabled The Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee people remains in place. The power to modify education, is introducing the debate and will probably take a little health and care plan duties was used by way of national longer, but if Back-Bench contributions could be kept notices issued by the Secretary of State for Education in to about five minutes, hopefully we can get through May, June and July. The power remains available in the everybody on the list without my having to impose a Coronavirus Act. My view is that this power must be formal time limit. I call Caroline Nokes to move the removed. motion. We are in a very different place in the pandemic. As the Minister for Children and Families acknowledged 1.31 pm in a recent letter to me, there is much less need for the Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) additional flexibilities, yet the power is being retained, (Con): I beg to move, for the time being, as a contingency. The Government That this House has considered the Fourth Report of the have said they will act to remove temporary provisions Women and Equalities Committee, “Unequal impact? Coronavirus, as soon as they are no longer necessary. They have done disability and access to services: full Report”, HC 1050. so in relation to the mental health and social care It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, provisions. It is an important matter of principle: the Sir Graham, and I thank my colleagues on the Committee Government must not hold on to emergency powers a for their work on both the inquiry and the report. I am moment longer than they absolutely need to. Removing pleased to see the hon. Members for Jarrow (Kate Osborne), the power to modify duties in relation to children’s and for Liverpool, Riverside (Kim Johnson) and for Lanark young people’s education, health and care needs would and Hamilton East (Angela Crawley) participating in send a clear message to children and their families that the debate. the Government fully support their right to receive the 79WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 80WH to Services to Services [Caroline Nokes] the Liaison Committee in January, and the hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Vicky Foxcroft) raised it again provision they need. I see no reasonable justification for very effectively at Prime Minister’sQuestion Time yesterday. keeping the Secretary of State’s power to modify duties On neither occasion was a proper response forthcoming. in statute any longer. The reasons relied on in written responses—that there is Over the last year,my Committee’swork has emphasised not enough space in Downing Street, or that there is not the unequal impacts of the pandemic on three groups of enough time to make arrangements—are weak. Surely people with protected characteristics under the Equality the Government could have found space during the Act 2010; women, groups of black and minority ethnic recent media suite refit. I am unsurprised that campaigners people, and disabled people—the subject of the debate have resorted to judicial review, but I am surprised that today, who have received, sadly, relatively little attention. the Government have not sought to resolve the issues Yet the adverse effects on disabled people have been swiftly and simply by finding both the space and the starkly disproportionate, including tragically high death inclination to include a BSL interpreter. rates. The chance of dying from covid was more than Practices in health and social care added to disabled three times greater for someone with a disability than people’s perceptions that their lives were less valued than for someone who was not disabled. The chance of dying others. The guidelines issued by the National Institute for a person with a learning disability was probably for Health and Care Excellence on the use of the clinical more than six times greater than that of the general frailty scale in making decisions about who should population. A young person aged between 18 and 34 receive critical care if NHS resources had been overwhelmed with a learning disability was some 30 times more likely were potentially discriminatory against disabled people. to die than a young non-disabled person. We heard from disabled people that, while they accepted Our inquiry heard evidence about decisions and policies that the guidelines were swiftly amended, it left a very that might have contributed to those tragic statistics, bad taste. such as a relative slowness to protect people in a range Extremely concerning issues about the inappropriate of social care settings, and a lack of clear and accessible use of “do not attempt resuscitation”notices, or DNARs, information for disabled people. That is why we called have been much more prolonged. The Government for a discrete independent inquiry into the causes, including asked the Care Quality Commission to investigate in the decisions made by Government. The response, “Now October last year, and last month the CQC found that is not the time,” will inevitably start to wear thin. The that hundreds of inappropriate DNARs had been applied. Government should commit to an independent inquiry, These issues demonstrate a deeply worrying lack of concern including into what led to disabled people feeling the for the rights of some groups of disabled people. brunt of the pandemic, and they should set out a We all understand the pressures that people were timetable not just for its start but for its completion. under early in the pandemic, but more than 10 years on They should do so now. from the Equality Act 2010, it is shocking that disabled A major theme in our full report was the Government’s people’s rights were not properly considered in the consultation and communications with disabled people formulation of policies and practices in health and during the pandemic. We heard that disabled people felt social care. That is why we recommended a robust response excluded and ignored. Witnesses pointed out that effective to prevent such mistakes being repeated. We called on consultation with disabled people could have made it the Government to allow the Equality and Human Rights possible to avoid some of the problems that they faced Commission to issue a statutory code of practice on the early in the pandemic, such as a lack of accessible food public sector equality duty, to provide greater legal shopping. Disability charities told us that the Government certainty about the actions that public authorities must were talking to them, but in broadcast mode—not take to prevent discrimination. Greater certainty would listening and not resolving problems effectively. When provide more effective protection, so the Government’s the Government did communicate with disabled people, dismissal of our recommendation is extremely their communications were not always psychologically disappointing. Their argument that the status quo is informed, and too often they exacerbated disabled people’s sufficient flies in the face of recent experience. If there is already heightened anxieties.There was confusing guidance not a statutory code of practice, how will the Government on shielding, and it was sometimes poorly thought prevent these issues from arising in future public health through and poorly timed—for example, a text message crises? Again, we have to learn from experience. sent at the weekend before important changes to guidance The pandemic has very clearly emphasised and were issued on the Monday. exacerbated known systemic problems affecting disabled I want to see evidence that the Government have people. We know that the SEND system is facing a learned from what happened. Right from the outset, crisis. The aims of the Children and Families Act reforms from the Prime Minister’s letter to the nation in March have never been consistently achieved. Services for children explaining the need to stay at home, communications with SEND are too often inadequate. In too many have not been fully accessible. There were no accessible places, the integrated education, health and care services versions of that letter for several days. I know that a envisaged in the 2014 Act have never materialised. great deal of work is going on in the Cabinet Office to I speak as a member of the Bill Committee that way provide the shopping list of accessible communications back in 2012 or 2013 scrutinised the Bill that became asks put forward by disability charities last year; but the that Act. We spoke endlessly in our debates about Government could and should go further and faster. I parents having to fight to get their children the services find it utterly incomprehensible, for example, that the they need. However, parents are still struggling in an Government have still not arranged in-person British overly bureaucratic system and the evidence that they Sign Language interpretation of their televised covid gave us through our inquiry was that they are still using briefings. I raised that issue with the Prime Minister at the word “fight”when describing their attempt to get their 81WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 82WH to Services to Services children’sneeds assessed and provided for.The Government Straight after the very first coronavirus press conference acknowledged that in announcing their SEND review, on 16 March 2020, I wrote to the Prime Minister but that was in September 2019, more than 18 months requesting a British Sign Language interpreter. We ago. The experience of children with SEND and their eventually got one for the BBC coverage, but, despite families during the pandemic must provide the impetus the hefty £2.6 million price tag for the flash new press to sort these problems out. We called for the review suite at Downing Street, no one thought to make provision outcome to be published in the first quarter of this year, for a BSL interpreter, as the right hon. Member for but we are still waiting. The Government’s response to Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) our report acknowledges the importance of these issues. said. Similarly, at the start of the crisis, it took weeks for The Government say they need more time to get the written Government communications to be available in reforms right. Of course time is needed to grapple with accessible formats or large fonts. As evidence gathered the complex issues in the SEND system, but if much by the Committee shows, many deaf people and people more time elapses people will start to question whether with learning disabilities were not properly informed SEND is the priority that it ought to be. about what was happening around them or about the The same is true of the review of adult social care. latest public health advice as Britain was plunged into There is no doubt that the devastating experience of the lockdown. Lessons should have been learned from pandemic in social care settings was exacerbated by those early failures, but I am afraid that recent failures systemic issues of funding, of workforce—including to provide BSL interpretation for Government pay and staff turnover—and a lack of proper integration communications indicate that they were not. with NHS services. That is why we were disappointed in Face masks are another issue for deaf people and the the spending review settlement for social care and hard of hearing. They are of course essential to protecting disappointed that there was nothing on social care in us against coronavirus, but they can be profoundly the Budget. We only know that the Government intend isolating for those who rely on lip-reading and facial to bring forward their proposals for social care later this expressions to communicate. In Parliament last year I year. That needs to happen sooner rather than later. raised several times the importance of rolling out clear There are positives in the Government’s response and face masks—those with a transparent strip over the I do not denigrate the hard work that is undeniably mouth. Like the Committee, I was pleased to see going on in the Department for Environment, Food procurement of clear face masks for NHS trusts towards and Rural Affairs in relation to disabled people’s access the end of last year, and I echo the Committee’s call for to food and in the Cabinet Office on accessible a proper evaluation of the roll-out and an assessment of communications; and the work that the Disability Unit need across services. However, I remain concerned that is putting into the national strategy for disabled people. the Department for Education’s guidance continues to The Government have opportunities in the national state that there is strategy, the social care review and their SEND review “currently very limited evidence regarding the effectiveness or to understand the particular problems faced by disabled safety of transparent face coverings” people, their carers and their families in the pandemic, to understand the part they have played in those problems, given that they have been rolled out in health and care and to start putting things right and restoring trust. I settings. I urge Ministers to take another look at that urge my hon. Friend the Minister in his response to guidance to avoid teachers being unnecessarily put off make it clear that the Government will grasp those using clear face masks and impeding the education of opportunities and do so in a timely fashion. children with hearing loss. I want to focus briefly on “do not attempt resuscitation” 1.44 pm notices being issued without consent, which in the last year has, perhaps more than anything else, sowed mistrust Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab) [V]: It is among the disabled community and made many feel a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Graham. their lives were valued less than others’. During the first I thank the Women and Equalities Committee for its wave of coronavirus, some people with learning disabilities work on the report, which shines a light on issues that, were told, shockingly, without prior consultation, that sadly, have been too often overlooked throughout the they would not be resuscitated if they were to fall ill pandemic. Before I get to the main points raised with from covid-19. The Care Quality Commission found me in the last year by my disabled constituents, I will that, since March 2020, more than 500 DNAR decisions echo the Committee’s findings about systemic issues in were made without being agreed with the individual or the SEND system and the way in which covid-19, and in their family beforehand and, in some cases, such decisions my view the Government’s inadequate response to it, caused potentially avoidable deaths. has exacerbated them. Given the outcry when that first happened, I was The report correctly concludes that there must be appalled to hear reports from Mencap that the same targeted support for pupils with SEND to recover, and practice was happening again at the start of this year. fundamental reform of the broken SEND system. I share As one constituent, who has been a care home operator the Committee’s hope that the Government’s SEND and seen this issue affect elderly people in hospitals, review will bring forth a blueprint for reform at the wrote to me, earliest opportunity. I feel that disabled people, much like children, have been an afterthought for the Government “imagine the horror and terrible stress now imposed on parents in the pandemic even though they have been or relatives to think that their child or adult will not be given the disproportionally affected by the virus in health and absolute best care and may be abandoned by the NHS in their social terms. Wehave seen that particularly in engagement hour of most need”. and communications this past year, which the report The truth is it that this is unimaginable, and it is rightly focuses on as a key issue facing disabled people. something that we have fought to address. 83WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 84WH to Services to Services [Tulip Siddiq] supermarkets, so grocery outgoings increased for some people. That is something the Royal National Institute I urge Ministers to heed the advice of the CQC by of Blind People has also reported. making urgent and wide-ranging improvements to care I welcome the guidance from the Equality and Human planning, including better training and information Rights Commission to ensure that food retailers make storage, and creating better oversight structures. What reasonable adjustments for disabled people throughout struck me most when reading this report is that there seems the pandemic. However, the Government must do more to be no one at the highest levels of Government actively to ensure that disabled people are properly supported in thinking about the impact of policies and communications any future pandemic or emergency. on disabled people. This failure to consider the needs of Many constituents have raised concerns about mobility disabled people has to change, and I hope that this and travel accessibility during the pandemic. Issues report and this debate can be part of that push to included: being unable to access support on public ensure that disabled people are properly represented transport due to social distancing; problems visiting and accounted for in policy making and Government certain locations, such as supermarkets, with carers due decision taking, especially at moments of crisis. to one-person shopping rules; and difficulty in hiring personal assistants during the pandemic. 1.50 pm Finally, looking towards the future, disabled people Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab) have been disproportionately impacted by the effects of [V]: It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, the pandemic on employment. According to Inclusion Sir Graham. I thank the right hon. Member for Romsey London, over 37% of disabled people have experienced and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) and her financial difficulties or employment issues due to covid-19, Committee for producing such an important report and including problems with the Access to Work scheme, for securing this debate. discrimination in the workplace and failure by employers I welcome the Committee’s approach to looking at to make reasonable adjustments. I fully support the the effects of the covid-19 pandemic on people with Committee’s call for an independent inquiry into the protected characteristics under the Equality Act 2010. profoundly adverse effects that the pandemic has had Although the pandemic has affected everyone, it is clear on disabled people, including the stark disparity of the that those groups in society that already faced structural death rate. We should look into the decisions and barriers and discrimination have been hardest hit. It is policies of the Government and public authorities. for this reason that last year I worked with an organisation As we begin to recover from the coronavirus, we need in my local area to produce a report on the effect of the to see increased funding for health and care services pandemic on people in Erith and Thamesmead with that are tailored towards disabled people. I strongly one or more protected characteristics. believe that legacy benefits should have been uplifted in In April last year, I met members and representatives line with universal credit and that neither should be cut from Inclusion London and the Greenwich Association later this year. I want the Government to fund user-led of Disabled People to discuss the local and regional organisations to a level that recognises their essential impacts of covid-19 on disabled people. In the time role in ensuring that all public and private services are available to me, I will set out a few of our key findings accessible to disabled people. A national strategy for relating to disabled people in my constituency, and disabled people is needed now more than ever, and must steps that I believe the Government must now take. contain a long-term plan for employment and accessibility A number of organisations and individuals have raised at work. As we begin our social and economic recovery, concerns about measures in the Coronavirus Act 2020 the Government must ensure that disabled people are relating to the Care Act, the Mental Health Act and the never again left behind. Sadly, they have been too often Children and Families Act. I am pleased that the over the last year. Government have now listened and ended the provisions related to the Care Act, but I know that there are still 1.55 pm concerns about the risk to disabled young people due to the easements to the Children and Families Act. Kate Osborne (Jarrow) (Lab) [V]: It is a pleasure to Research by Inclusion London has found that only serve under your chairmanship, Sir Graham. I thank 32% of disabled children received all the SEND provision the right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton in their education and health care plan, with the rest North (Caroline Nokes) for leading this extremely important either receiving some or none of their usual provision. debate, and I thank the members of the Women and As we move into the recovery stage of this crisis, I urge Equalities Committee, of which I am a member, and, the Government to look at this again, and to ensure most especially, the witnesses who gave evidence to help that disabled people and young children are able to form this report. access the support that they need for their education. Yesterday, as other hon. Members have already Erith and Thamesmead constituents have raised mentioned, I was pleased to see my hon. Friend the a number of concerns about access to food for disabled Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Vicky Foxcroft) highlight people during the pandemic. For example, disabled at Prime Minister’s questions how disabled people have people who usually rely on supermarket deliveries, but been overlooked in something that could and should who are not considered clinically extremely vulnerable, be easily fixed: the lack of a BSL interpreter during struggle to access delivery slots. Food parcels provided Government televised briefings. That is one of the by the Government did not take into consideration report’s recommendations that I hope will be put in accessibility needs, such as mobility and available cooking place very soon. We know that this lack of thought for appliances. There were also limited supermarket delivery disabled people during the televised briefings is symptomatic slots, which meant people were unable to shop at cheaper of the wider issues that we highlighted in the report. 85WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 86WH to Services to Services Throughout the pandemic, disabled people have faced mistakes in regard to disabled people’s experiences of problems with unequal access to food and potentially the pandemic, and it is essential that effective mechanisms discriminatory practices in health and social care services. are put in place by which disabled people can influence On top of that, the existing systemic problems in education policies and practices that affect them, and ensure for children and young people with special educational that hard-won equality rights are not eroded but built needs have worsened. The pandemic has shone a light upon. on the pre-existing inequalities in the UK and, if we are to build back fairer, we need the fullest possible understanding of why existing inequalities were highlighted 2.1 pm and/or reinforced because of the pandemic, so that we do not leave people behind as we recover. Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD) [V]: I am grateful to the right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North That is why it is so important that this report is (Caroline Nokes) for securing this important debate, listened to in full and why there must now be an and to the Women and Equalities Committee for their independent inquiry into how Government policy and report. I fully support the Committee’s call for an decisions led to disabled people being disproportionately independent inquiry into the causes of adverse outcomes affected by the pandemic. It is disappointing that the for disabled people. Government’s response to the report has not committed From delayed and confusing guidance over shielding to this expert-led inquiry. I hope that the Minister can to difficulties accessing food, many disabled people give a more detailed response and explain the reasons have felt abandoned throughout the crisis. To this day, why there is no commitment from the Government on as we have already heard, we are waiting for the live this. British Sign Language interpretation of the Government’s On the report’s wider recommendations, it is pleasing press briefings on TV. One of my constituents in Bath that several were accepted by the Government, but four was born with a rare and incurable breathing problem, were rejected and 10 were accepted in part or in principle. and is in a high-risk group. Despite registering as extremely For me, one of the most concerning is the lack of vulnerable on the Government’s website to receive food commitment to include access to food in future emergency parcels in March last year, she did not receive her parcel situations within the forthcoming national strategy for until mid-June. Of the Government’s guidance about disabled people. I hope that the Minister can clear up ending shielding, another constituent said: whether the Government agree with the report’s “I don’t understand anything the Prime Minister said at all. It recommendation that access to food must be included is so confusing. Why can’t they just say this in basic language?” in the national strategy, and explain how they plan to One of the most obvious failures we see again and consult with disabled people on the struggles that many again is that services are being designed for disabled have faced in accessing food during the pandemic. people without actually consulting them. This pandemic On health and social care, the report recommends a has hit disabled people particularly hard, and in so code of practice that lays out what the NHS and local many ways. In employment, disabled people have been authorities must do, unlike the current situation, where disproportionately affected by furlough, reduced hours they are told only what they should do. Can the Minister and redundancies. Despite this, the Chancellor’s plan explain the Government’s reasoning for rejecting this for jobs made only one reference to disabled people, and proposal, and why they believe that a code of practice contained nothing to address the specific challenges would not make life better for disabled people and staff facing them. Recent figures released by the Department in the NHS and local authorities? The report highlights for Work and Pensions reveal that the number of disability how the pandemic has exacerbated the pre-existing employment advisors has fallen by 32% during the crisis in provision for children and young people with pandemic, at a time when knowledge of the barriers special educational needs and disabilities. Can the Minister faced by disabled people will be even more necessary. update us on any progress the Government have made Everyone should have the right to secure employment. I on their SEND review, which was supposed to be sincerely hope that promotion of inclusive workplace published in the spring? practices will be a top priority in the Government’s national strategy for disabled people. We need a targeted The report widely acknowledges the problems created strategy to tackle barriers to work for disabled people as by a lack of ring-fenced funding for children with we emerge from the pandemic. SEND in mainstream schools, and evidence that these Covid has also exposed how isolated some disabled pupils consistently make less progress than other pupils people can be.Many of those with mental health difficulties with the same starting points. It is disappointing that in Bath have already been struggling without face-to-face the Government rejected the recommendation that funding care. The value of our social care sector and its workforce be increased to allow for pupils with SEND in mainstream has never been clearer, and I pay tribute in particular to schools to receive £240 per child, ring-fenced for their the 7.3 million unpaid carers in the UK, without whom catch-up support in this academic year. I hope that the the pressures on adult social care services would be even Minister can give further explanation as to why the greater. Many are facing extreme financial hardship. Government have not committed to ring-fencing funding The Liberal Democrats are calling for carer’s allowance for pupils with SEND in mainstream schools. to be raised by £1,000 a year—the same as the uplift in In conclusion, although it is welcome that a number universal credit. The underfunding of social care was a of the report’s findings and recommendations have been problem long before covid. Now its effects will be felt accepted or will be looked at further, it is still worrying even more severely. I support the Select Committee’s that a number have been rejected. It is also worrying recommendations, which highlight that the £300 million that there is a lack of commitment to an independent in additional grant funding for local authority social inquiry. It is vital that the Government learn from their care budgets falls far short of what is needed. 87WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 88WH to Services to Services [Wera Hobhouse] their concerns during the pandemic when forming a proposed national strategy for disabled people, upholding We are now 25 years on from the Disability the principle of “nothing about us without us”. Discrimination Act 1995. Unless we truly recognise the Everyone has the fundamental right to live in safety value of the social care sector, we risk going backwards and in dignity, with full access to health, social care and on the progress we have made towards equality for education. The report and the evidence we have heard disabled people. has shown that we have failed disabled people by not upholding these basic rights during the pandemic. The 2.6 pm report must be a turning point. The Government must investigate their failures, involve disabled people in Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab) [V]: It is a developing a national strategy to uphold, protect and pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Graham. strength the rights of disabled people, and commit to This pandemic has been one of poverty and inequality. significant and progressive funding to tackle our crisis Pre-existing health, housing, employment and income in social care and ensure that disabled people can live in inequalities have combined to form a perfect storm for safety and in dignity. disabled people. In my role on the Women and Equalities Committee, 2.9 pm I have listened to so many heartbreaking and shocking Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP) [V]: It is a stories of the barriers that disabled people have faced pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Graham. during the pandemic. Disabled people have overwhelmingly I am grateful to the Women and Equalities Committee been abandoned without the basic support they need to for all its work. It is also a pleasure to follow such a survive or live in dignity—from the suspension of local powerful speech advocating for the rights of disabled authority’s legal responsibilities to provide basic social people. For too many disabled people, the pandemic has care, to the reduction of access to activities and day raised new challenges and barriers to accessing services centres, to an increase in isolation and loneliness, and as they go about their daily lives. We need to be clear difficulties in accessing healthcare, education and even that equality for disabled people should be central to food. what we do here every day,but the attitude of Westminster Mencap’s“My Health, My Life”report into inaccessible and the Tory Government towards disabled people is healthcare during covid highlighted some truly shocking nothing short of a disgrace. Scotland has not voted for realities faced by people with a learning disability during a right-wing Tory Government for decades, but the the pandemic. Some people with a learning disability harmful policies that they inflict daily on disabled people were told that they may not receive life-saving treatment. come none the less. Some were encouraged to avoid hospital and were asked The SNP’s manifesto includes a disability manifesto, to consent to DNRs. Overstretched and under-resourced and I am sure that anyone watching its launch this hospitals meant there was a reduction in learning disability morning—there was a BSL interpreter and subtitles; nurses, and some acute learning disability nurses were perhaps the Prime Minister could take note of that— redeployed to other units. will have thought very deeply about that. It focuses on While we welcome the Government’s commitment in strengthening rights and opportunities, investing in the their written response to the report to more funding for NHS, supporting disabled young people, a commissioner local authorities, their reference to the recent hike in the for autism, fairer social security, improving accessibility social care council precept raised concerns that they and employment representation. Those critical steps intend to place the burden for social care on those least matter all the more now because of the disproportionate able to pay for it. Such an approach is both unfair and impact of covid on disabled people. The UK Government’s completely unable to meet the scale of the challenge. response to the Select Committee report landed in This Government are in denial of the social care crisis inboxes only last night. I am afraid that does not speak that we are facing. well of the Tory Government’s priorities or their views Can the Minister explain how this Government can of this important issue. claim a levelling-up agenda while forcing the costs of All of us surely know, from our constituency work the crisis in social care on to the worst-off through this and from discussions with local and national organisations, regressive taxation? About 60% of people in the UK about the impact of covid on disabled people and on who have died from coronavirus are disabled. Will the existing inequalities. Along with my hon. Friend the Minister please explain in clear terms why the Government Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows), have not taken up our report’s recommendation for an I have had extremely useful meetings with organisations independent inquiry into the disproportionate deaths such as Epilepsy Action, looking specifically at how we and adverse outcomes for disabled people from can support people through this period. More locally, I the pandemic? Also, why did the Government reject the have had great cause to value the excellent work of East recommendation for a statutory code of practice on the Renfrewshire Disability Action, Cosgrove Care and public sector equality duty? Include Me 2 Club, among so many other excellent We are having this debate in the most tragic of third sector and voluntary groups making a huge impact circumstances. What will it take for this Government to on the ground. That work has been vital, along with the act? Disabled people’s lives must be valued equally. This work of NHS and care professionals, because of the Government have a responsibility to take action against stark fact that disabled people were more likely than the disadvantage and discrimination that put the mental non-disabled people to have died of covid-19. and physical health of disabled people at risk. To do We know that nearly half of all people in poverty in that, the Government must commit to full and transparent the UK are disabled or live with someone who is disabled, engagement with disabled people and groups about and we can easily predict a very challenging period 89WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 90WH to Services to Services ahead because of decisions this Government are taking, with disabilities were so much more affected than others. which we know will disproportionately impact on people Is it because of poverty? A recently published report by with disabilities. We know that 82% of disabled claimants the Social Market Foundation, commissioned by Scope, have had to spend more money than normal during the revealed that almost half of all people in poverty in the pandemic as a result of increased costs. Two thirds of UK are disabled or live with someone who is disabled. those disabled claimants have had to go without essential The Disability Benefits Consortium reports that 82% of items at some point during the pandemic, and almost disabled benefit claimants have had to spend “more half say that they have been unable to meet financial money than normal” during the pandemic. Almost commitments such as rent and household bills. Those two thirds have had to go without essential items, and are the most fundamental things, so we should not be almost half report being unable to pay basic bills for surprised to learn from research by Scope that disabled rent and utilities. people were increasingly worried about extra utilities Scope recently reported on difficulties with employment costs because of the pandemic. and support allowance, such as work capability assessments In that context, there is no exaggeration when I say not being scheduled before the end of the 365-day that Westminster’s policies are damaging lives, and the period. This means that entitlement to the supplementary Government’s response to the report does not give me benefits that claimants should receive is withheld and great confidence that that will change. I am hugely they can become between £54 and £39 a week worse off. concerned at the prospect of people who receive universal If someone then has to claim universal credit instead, credit facing benefit cuts later this year,when unemployment they face a five-week wait. If they have earnings above is likely to hit its peak, and that is before we get on to the threshold, they might not qualify at all, leaving the lack of support for people on legacy benefits, including them without adequate support. many disabled people. The SNP has been very clear that The SNP has repeatedly called for the £20 per week failing to extend an equivalent uplift to legacy benefits uplift in universal credit to be applied to legacy benefits is discriminatory to the core and disproportionately such as ESA, but the Government have completely impacts on disabled claimants. refused to do so. When that lifeline ends, 700,000 UK The Social Market Foundation and Scope have found families will be pushed into poverty when their incomes that, despite decades of reforms and political promises fall by £1,000 a year. from successive Westminster Governments, more than The UK Government have had difficulty in four in 10 of all people in homes relying on disability communicating with people with disabilities, as pointed benefits live in poverty. There can be no more compelling out in the report. Even an easy thing to do such as evidence that the UK Government must commit to having a BSL signer at No. 10 briefings during the making permanent the £20 uplift to universal credit and pandemic was not in place, whereas in Scotland the to extending it to other legacy benefits. The system is daily briefings with the First Minister were signed from simply not fit for purpose, and that includes the work the start. It is not hard to arrange, but the lack of that capability assessments. The SNP welcomed the suspension basic tool for the deaf community reveals a lack of of face-to-face assessments, but some have started again thought on the best way to communicate directly with and the anxiety and practical issues that that has caused deaf members of the population who need to understand cannot be underestimated. what is going on. They feel cut off at the best of times. To conclude, I would like to focus briefly on the issue The report notes that the use of “do not resuscitate” of work. For so many disabled people, the disability notices, which emerged in the early days of the pandemic, employment gap and the challenges of work are so is “deeply concerning”. These issues caused disabled important and will become so much more pressing as people great distress and anxiety and left them feeling we move out of the pandemic period. This is a time for that their lives were less valued than others. Indeed, one the UK Government to step up and look at what is of my staff was deeply affected by the rising panic on happening in Scotland and to show the leadership that UK forums where this was being discussed. I was really will allow flexible, sustainable and continued work for pleased that I could reassure her that such a practice many disabled people. was not being carried out in Scotland. Bad communication makes bad situations worse. 2.15 pm People with disabilities must never be othered by Government, which is why the SNP Scottish Government Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) [V]: have built a social security system based on the principle It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, of dignity and respect. As set out in their Budget, the Sir Graham. I thank the right hon. Member for Romsey Scottish Government have committed £3.5 billion in and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) for securing benefits to support people with disabilities in 2020-21. this important debate, and I thank the members of the Those payments will reach more than 800,000 people. Women and Equalities Committee and those who further The money will go directly to the people in Scotland contributed to this report. I also want to thank the right who need it most. hon. Lady for her tribute to Dame Cheryl Gillan, who The first disability assistance benefit to be introduced is indeed sorely missed. by the Scottish Government was the child winter heating It is important to note that the coronavirus pandemic assistance annual payment of £200. That is the only has had a disproportionate impact on people with disabilities annual winter heating payment for children in the UK, and has in fact exacerbated the inequalities that they and it represents a £2.9 million investment in the health face. Disabled people are more likely to have died as a and wellbeing of the most severely disabled children and result of covid-19. Notwithstanding this Government’s young people. Payments have already been made to aversion to independent judge-led inquiries, there must people who are able to benefit from the care component be one on this issue. We must understand why people of child disability living allowance. 91WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 92WH to Services to Services [Marion Fellows] address the issues of social care by investing £800 million in a national care service over the next Parliament, as The Cabinet Office disability unit is developing a well as many,many more commitments to reduce inequality national strategy for disabled people, and the Minister and to improve the life chances of many Scots. for Care has said that that will be published “later this The manifesto also contains announcements on the spring”, but later this spring is not an exact enough four-day working week and a pilot on greater flexible date. We need to know when it will be published. May I working, for which I have been calling for some years. suggest that the Minister look at what the Scottish The benefits outweigh all of the associated costs by Government have already done in publishing a delivery reducing the gender pay gap, allowing those with disabilities plan called “A Fairer Scotland for Disabled People”? to maintain working lives and improving the life-work That is our delivery plan to incorporate the United balance of so many families. Nations convention on the rights of persons with disabilities. It covers the period from 2016 to 2021, and it aims to The report summarises what we now know is for make equality of opportunity, access to services and many people and for many lives the long-term impact of independent living a reality for all disabled people in covid. Following on from the report, we need to highlight Scotland. and bring attention to the need to prepare for the issue of long covid, and to consider the response the Government The Scottish SNP Government are already delivering make to that. Today, the SNP has made a commitment things such as free bus travel for disabled people and to work with GPs to co-ordinate a multidisciplinary have protected the disabled students allowance and response on the issue of long covid. I call on the bursaries. They have changed the rules on war disablement Minister to consider what more his Government can do pensions so that they are exempt from the assessment of to ensure that they are supporting those suffering from income. The Scottish Government will continue to fund long covid. support payments to severely disabled people, enabling them to live as independently as possible. This Government As we listen to each of those who have contributed to should do as much. the debate, it is worth noting that the report makes it clear that in many respects the UK Government have failed disabled people throughout this pandemic. I call 2.21 pm on the Minister to consider what more his Government Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton East) (SNP) can do, specifically on issues of food insecurity. As we [V]: It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Graham, have heard, many disabled people who relied on others and to have the opportunity to discuss the Women and to shop for them or to deliver food to them during the Equalities Committee report on the unequal impact of national pandemic faced struggles to access online shopping covid in relation to disability and access to services. and delivery slots, as well as websites and telephone lines that were inaccessible to people with sensory I put on record my thanks to the right hon. Member impairment. On accessibility, the report recommends for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) that Ministers and officials involved in communicating for her leadership, and to my Committee colleagues, the public health messages to disabled people should undergo hon. Members for Jarrow (Kate Osborne) and for training on psychologically informed communications Liverpool, Riverside (Kim Johnson), as well as all those that fully take into account and emphasise disabled who contributed their work on the issue. As a member people’s lived experience. of the Committee, I am pleased that the report puts on record the lived experience of disabled people throughout The report highlights that many of the issues in the the pandemic, which has exacerbated the inequalities social care sector have been exposed and exacerbated by they face. One of the report’s most import findings is, the pandemic, such as the lack of long-term sustainable sadly, the fact that disabled people are more likely than funding and workforce issues, including low pay and non-disabled people to have died of covid-19 in the past high staff turnover. Often, poor integration of NHS year. At this time of mourning, it is worth remembering services meant that many people were even further them. I hope the Government will take seriously the impacted on by an already inequitable system. report’s recommendations. Finally, it is worth noting that as we make our way Many disabled people came before the Committee to through the vaccination programme and can see a way describe their lived experience of the issues of food out of this pandemic, covid might continue to impact insecurity and the struggle to access online shopping on the lives and life chances of many disabled people. delivery slots. Ultimately, the UK Government must There is little research at this point on the effects of long ensure that they continue to make their messaging, covid, but I am sure I am not alone in hearing from whether on the pandemic or on other Government constituents about the effects of this virus on previously announcements and communications, accessible, through fit and healthy people. Long covid is an invisible illness BSL interpreters and in other formats. Today, we have that needs much more medical research and support, heard the SNP’s announcement in its manifesto in and the Government should provide desperately needed relation to such commitments. support to those experiencing the long-term impact of It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friends the Members the health effects of the viral infection. for East Renfrewshire (Kirsten Oswald) and for Motherwell This really is a tale of two Governments and a matter and Wishaw (Marion Fellows), who highlighted the fact of choices, so I hope that we will see a real commitment that this is a tale of two Governments. In relation to the from this Government and this Minister to improve the forthcoming elections to the Scottish Parliament, the life chances and opportunities of those most adversely First Minister has announced that the Scottish Government affected by long covid, and of all those experiencing have introduced the first social security system of any disabilities who are affected by the adverse impacts of devolved Government and that the SNP will continue to the covid pandemic. 93WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 94WH to Services to Services Sir Graham Brady (in the Chair): Before I call the The report calls for a Government assessment of the shadow Minister, I thank everybody who has participated effectiveness of using the clinically extremely vulnerable for being considerate in their use of time, which has definition for food provision, and we would welcome made it possible to let everybody have their say. that assessment as well, because, in the words of the report, the definition 2.27 pm “may have contributed to some supermarkets overlooking their legal obligations to make reasonable adjustments for the broader Charlotte Nichols (Warrington North) (Lab): It is a population of disabled people”. pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Graham. May I The report quotes the evidence of Fazilet Hadi of begin by thanking the Women and Equalities Committee Disability Rights UK, who said that for its invaluable work in writing this incredibly important and serious report? The right hon. Member for Romsey “tens of thousands of other…disabled people felt that, for various and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), who is the reasons, maybe not medical, they could not go out either. It may have been that they were blind or had learning disabilities and felt Chair of the Committee, made a number of vital points social distancing would have been difficult. […] it might have been in her opening address, which I hope the Minister will because they could not stand in queues for a long time. There are respond to fully. I thank the Labour Members of the a whole host of reasons.” Committee, including my hon. Friends the Members That is why Labour agrees with the report that the for Jarrow (Kate Osborne) and for Liverpool, Riverside Government need to adopt a social model of disability (Kim Johnson), for their robust contributions both to that recognises the challenges of lived experience that the report and to this debate. I join them in thanking go beyond medical impairments to consideration of the individuals and organisations that contributed evidence how we remove societal barriers. to the inquiry so that the Committee could provide the focus and consideration that the Government have failed The Government’s response to the report does not to give to the lived experience of disabled people in this address that issue, even though it was the subject of a country. specific recommendation. Will the Minister explain why the Government did not recognise this issue sooner and The whole country has looked to the Government urge supermarkets to use definitions other than “clinically for action to keep us safe, and they have a particular extremely vulnerable”? When the NICE guidelines for obligation to protect the most vulnerable, who have critical care put too much emphasis on the clinical been especially exposed to the virus. My hon. Friend frailty scale, a revised set was published four days later. the Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong- Why could the Government not make adjustments as Asare) highlighted that the virus has exacerbated existing they saw the real world impacts of their decisions? inequalities. Although the past year has been difficult, depressing and frightening for us all, disabled people I have discussed a number of the impacts on people have suffered even more than the rest. I join her in with learning disabilities before, such as in a debate in paying tribute to the work of Inclusion London, which December. At that time, the Minister for Social Care I have also met recently, in highlighting the multiple assured me that the blanket “do not resuscitate” orders injustices that disabled people have faced during this were unacceptable and had been stopped, that the CQC pandemic. was reviewing them and that an updated framework required GPs to review all such decisions for people As the report states, the Office for National Statistics with learning disabilities, to make sure that they are found in September that almost 60% of deaths with appropriate. My hon. Friend the Member for Hampstead coronavirus were of disabled people, even though they and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) was absolutely right to make up only around 16% of the country’s population. highlight the horror it has caused disabled people and In November, Public Health England estimated that the their families to learn that they may not receive the care death rate with coronavirus of people with learning that they deserve and should be able to expect in their disabilities might be more than 6.3 times higher than time of greatest need. that of the general population. The report clearly sets out a number of areas where disabled people were The CQC has since reported, saying that unfortunately let down by a Government who should “poor record keeping and lack of audits meant that we could not have done better to protect them. Instead, they were always be assured that…decisions…were being made on individual failed. The report sets out how too often they were an assessments. Once…decisions were in place, it varied whether afterthought throughout the pandemic. providers and local systems reviewed them.” On the provision of food, 60% of disabled people The CQC also said that of the 508 decisions put in place struggled to access essential supplies in the early months during the pandemic that had not been agreed in discussion of the pandemic, but the report notes that the Government’s with the person, their relative or carer, around a third— definition of “clinically extremely vulnerable”—those 180 out of 508—were still in place by mid-December. Is medically shielding—“was an inappropriate proxy” for the Minister confident that all of these decisions have disabled people who needed help accessing food. That now been properly reviewed? influenced the policies of the supermarkets, as the British My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside Retail Consortium made it clear that it had been directed powerfully raised the crisis in social care and its impact by the Government to prioritise the clinically extremely on disabled people, alongside the harmful easements in vulnerable group for online deliveries. We all know that the restrictions under the Coronavirus Act that affect demand for delivery slots increased vastly, and many the quality of care that they can expect to receive and disabled people who were not considered clinically extremely the impact on their dignity. The report highlights the vulnerable had to rely on community volunteers. We Government’s initial focus on the health service at the thank everyone who stepped up to assist in that way, but expense of social care, and the lack of personal protective it is not the standard of support that disabled people equipment provision. That speaks to the Government’s deserve. ongoing neglect, as spending on adult social care has 95WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 96WH to Services to Services [Charlotte Nichols] and Equalities and Transport teams have raised with the Government—particularly for such things as pre-booked fallen in real terms by 2.1% since 2010-11, despite an passenger assistance. increase in demand. Adult social care needs both funding The lack of progress in those areas says much about and reform. how the needs of disabled people have been overlooked My hon. Friend the Member for Jarrow spoke at or neglected during the crisis. The Select Committee length about the impact on children with special educational report calls for a separate independent inquiry on the needs or disabilities during the pandemic. On SEND, impact on disabled people, once the situation is stable, the report sets out how many children and young people as I hope it now is. I look forward to the findings of that received little or no support for three months, and it inquiry, so that disabled people cannot be overlooked stresses the importance of the Government’s SEND again. I look forward to the Minister setting out a review. I hope that the Minister can tell us in his timeline for the beginning and conclusion of the inquiry. response what scope the review will have to consider the We cannot accept more delay while the needs of our focus on SEND in mainstream schools, including funding disabled constituents continue to be unmet by the arrangements, and when the review is expected to be Government. published. Across all of these areas, the report says that 2.37 pm “we have been disappointed…with the Government’s attention to The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work equality issues.” (Justin Tomlinson): It is a pleasure to serve under your It will not come as a surprise to those of us who see chairmanship, Sir Graham. I, too, want to put on Ministers’attitudes to equalities as just another opportunity record my personal tribute to Cheryl Gillan—a sad loss. to wage their tired and divisive “war on woke”, but this No parliamentarian did more to champion the rights is where we see the real world impact. and opportunities of those with autism, and it was a great pleasure for me as the Minister for Disabled The report states that, because of the need to restore People to meet and work with her, and respond to her disabled people’s confidence that their needs are given comprehensive, proactive and constructive letters, asks equal consideration, the Government and challenges. With my ministerial hat on, I would say “should consent to the Equality and Human Rights Commission that her greatest legacy is how much she achieved for issuing a statutory Code of Practice on the Public Sector Equality those who were reliant on having that strong voice in Duty.” Parliament. Labour supports that call. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Romsey One issue not mentioned in the report, but which has and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) who not a massive impact on disabled people, is the Government’s only spoke passionately in the debate but has, through failure to uplift legacy social security benefits, even in her excellent chairmanship of the Women and Equalities line with the temporary £20 increase in universal credit. Committee, held the Government and the whole of They have failed to support more than 1.9 million Parliament to account on a number of serious issues. disabled people who have faced increased costs as a She is a formidable parliamentarian, and is held in the result of the pandemic, such as to pay for PPE for their highest regard among colleagues. Frankly, it is staggering carers. That once again exposes the fact that the that she is not in the Cabinet helping to lead the Government’spriorities do not include the most vulnerable. challenges that are often raised, and on which we must There is some unintentional comedy in the report, keep a laser focus. about consultation: The unprecedented challenges of covid have impacted “Ministers described a very positive, inclusive approach with all, including disabled people, as has been highlighted open lines of communication.” by the important report by the Women and Equalities Most witnesses had a different perspective. Committee. In my role as the Minister for Disabled People I welcome the opportunity to talk through the All of us understand and, indeed, sympathise about measures that the Government have put in place for the difficulties of setting up new rules and systems in a disabled people throughout the pandemic, and how we hurry at the beginning of the pandemic, but Ministers are responding to those serious recommendations. My should learn from mistakes and not deny reality.Something involvement in my cross-Government capacity, and that that has been raised in the debate by several hon. Members, of the Disability Unit for which I am responsible, is to and repeatedly with the Government over months, is influence and shape Government policies, sharing our the question why they—and not least the Prime Minister— subject matter expertise, data, and knowledge of lived have been so resistant to having British Sign Language experiences and connecting relevant stakeholders with interpreters at the briefings. The report makes it clear colleagues across Government to reach the best outcomes that that has been alienating and dangerous for deaf for disabled people. people, and people with hearing difficulties. Before I turn to the specific points raised by my right My hon. Friend the Member for Hampstead and hon. Friend and the report, I would like to say how Kilburn rightly raised the question of other barriers proud I am of the roll-out of the vaccination programme, that deaf people face, including the lack of provision of which was an absolutely key issue and ask of the clear face coverings in public sector settings, which disability stakeholders that I regularly meet with. The made communication extremely difficult for those who Government are now offering vaccines to all those aged rely on lip-reading. My hon. Friend the Member for over 45, those on the learning disability register or Erith and Thamesmead also raised important issues clinically extremely vulnerable people, and health and about the adverse effects in connection with accessibility social care staff. I am very pleased that my own Department of public transport—something that the shadow Women has linked with NHS services in England to share data 97WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 98WH to Services to Services on over 600,000 carers, allowing the NHS to invite Turning to accessibility, I reaffirm that it is vital that those carers to book an appointment for a vaccine. This public information on covid-19 is accessible to all, and is a huge achievement, and makes a significant impact we have made key strides in this area. These are things I on the lives of disabled people as they navigate this was challenged on during my stakeholder engagement, pandemic. This is a good example of cross-Government and I happily raise these across Government. The work. Government are committed to providing both key covid- Turning to the specific points raised, from the very related guidance and communications in alternative start of the pandemic, we have ensured that the views of formats, including large print, easy read, British Sign disabled people and their families and carers have been Language and audio. Most recently, this has covered taken into account when considering how best to support ensuring that national restrictions, vaccination testing disabled people and link through to the relevant Ministers, and the Government’s road map are accessible. We have Departments and agencies. Casting our minds back to now established BSL interpretation at the No. 10 press the beginning of the pandemic, there was real concern conference via the BBC News channel and iPlayer, about access to food and medicine, as a number of the available on all TV packages as part of Freeview.Accessible people who have spoken in this debate have highlighted. information is also available on the Government’s social In normal circumstances, Governments would typically media channels. take 12 to 18 months to develop policies, engaging, A significant further improvement, following the consulting and piloting before implementing new legislation. Committee’s report, is that the Cabinet Office now has a However, with the challenges of covid, that time was senior lead for accessible communications as part of the simply not available. national resilience communications hub, who meets with a group of disability charities on a monthly basis. Therefore, by connecting key stakeholders with real The group is briefed on the latest covid-19 guidance, lived experience, we were able to help relevant Ministers including accessible versions, and works to ensure that and Departments develop responses quickly.For example, communications to disabled people continue to be accessible we linked stakeholders including Disability Rights UK, and timely. Most recently, we held bespoke briefing Scope, Sense, Leonard Cheshire and the RNIB with the sessions with the disability communications working Minister for farming, fishing and food, my hon. Friend group on 25 March, explaining the road map and the Member for Banbury (Victoria Prentis), and her communications activity, enabling charities to brief their officialstoengagethroughthefoodvulnerabilitystakeholder audiences, prepare and share accessible communications group.Within days, they were able to resolve this potentially through their network. I have personally pushed hard serious issue, as the Committee report highlights. This for that and I thank the Women and Equalities Committee is an example of best practice. Several speakers raised for its support on the need for this vital additional layer the challenge faced by those who did not get included in of support. the clinically extremely vulnerable list, but an additional scheme was organised through 305 local authorities, Turning to health and social care, as we have seen, the Age UK, Mind, Scope and RNIB, which were able to covid-19 pandemic has had an unprecedented impact then make referrals for priority online shopping slots. on the NHS and social care systems. Recognising the Again, these important changes were vital. challenges in care settings, the Department of Health and Social Care made £546 million available in its adult More widely, to identify potential issues and areas of social care winter plan, including money for vital infection real lived experiences, we have an extensive programme control measures to ensure that disabled people getting of engagement. I regularly meet with the Disability social care and support are kept as safe as possible. The Charities Consortium, which includes Scope, Leonard Government has also made £4.6 billion available to Cheshire, Disability Rights UK, the National Autistic local authorities to address pressures on local services, Society, Mind, Mencap, Sense, RNIB, RNID and the including adult social care. Furthermore, the Minister Business Disability Forum. That includes being joined for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention announced by relevant ministerial colleagues to discuss aspects of £500 million for mental health recovery,of which £31 million the pandemic’simpact on disabled people.During covid-19, will be used to support learning disability and autism this forum’s work has included meetings with the Minister services, alongside an additional £3.6 million announced for Covid Vaccine Deployment, my hon. Friend the by the Minister for Care for disability voluntary sector Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi); the organisations to provide practical support to disabled Minister for Care, my hon. Friend the Member for people to mitigate the impacts of covid-19. Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately); and the I know many disabled people and their families have Minister for Civil Society. It has been a real opportunity raised concerns about easements to the Care Act, which to share their expertise and help shape the urgent new were introduced as a temporary measure to help local policies that are needed to support those who are most authorities continue to meet the most urgent and acute vulnerable in society. needs in the face of covid-19, when local authorities Furthermore, the Cabinet Office covid-19 taskforce were experiencing extraordinary pressures. The measure considers disproportionately impacted groups, including was used sparingly and has now ended. In response to disabled people, through policy development to tackle concerns about the use of “do not resuscitate” decisions the pandemic. They do this through close working with and the clinical frailty scale, the Government recognised the Equalities Hub and, within it, the Disability Unit, the issues and guidance was changed strongly and quickly. co-ordinating with other Government Departments and It is important to recognise the particular challenges wider stakeholders to ensure a holistic approach to the covid-19 outbreak has had on families of children policy implications and delivery. In addition, we have with disabilities or serious illnesses. Supporting vulnerable regular stakeholder engagement through our regional children is a priority for this Government and has been network, which includes disabled people, carers, and central to our response throughout the pandemic. Turning crucially those with real lived experiences. to the work done by the Minister for Children and 99WH Covronavirus, Disability and Access 15 APRIL 2021 Covronavirus, Disability and Access 100WH to Services to Services [Justin Tomlinson] While there will undoubtedly be opportunities to learn from our covid-19 response in the longer term, the overall Families, the Government provided £40.8 million for picture is that the Government have moved fast and the family fund in 2020-21, which supported more than flexibly to provide support for disabled people in these 90,000 low-income families who are raising children unprecedented times.The importance of cross-Government who are disabled or seriously ill. work linked to and supported by those with real lived I know there are concerns about the legal duties to experiences is absolutely clear, as it allows us to move provide support to children and young people with faster and more flexibly to provide support to those education, health and care plans. The Secretary of State most in need, including those with disabilities. for Education has not used this power since July last To ensure that that notion is embedded at the heart year and has made it clear that he would need a compelling of the Government, we now have ministerial disability reason before doing so again. champions in every Department, with whom I meet regularly, with the full authority of the Prime Minister. Caroline Nokes: I thank the Minister for giving way They are genuinely enthused, engaged and determined on the point about the Secretary of State for Education’s to play their part on behalf of their respective Departments. powers. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has In our forthcoming ambitious national strategy for disabled made it clear that he would require a compelling reason people, we will demonstrate the very real and vital focus to use them, but he has not used them, he does not plan on cross-Government work to remove barriers and to use them and there is much less need to use them. create a fully inclusive society as we return to normality. Will my hon. Friend indicate whether there might be a In conclusion, I thank all the staff and volunteers across timescale for when they are going to go? the country working on the frontline, and in particular those supporting people with disabilities, as we navigate Justin Tomlinson: That is a fair challenge. I do not these challenges. I thank again my right hon. Friend have the answer, but I will certainly make sure that the and her Committee for their fantastic ongoing work, Secretary of State for Education gives a clear response theCommittee’simportantreportandtherecommendations to that question. it made. The Government and I personally take them While the covid-19 pandemic has unavoidably delayed very seriously, and we are acting on them. the completion of the special educational needs and 2.51 pm disabilities review, the Secretary of State for Education is clear that it remains a key priority for this Government. Caroline Nokes: I put on record my thanks to all hon. It is vital that we deliver on our promises to children Members who contributed to the debate. I recognise and young people and the DFE intends to publish that lots of Government Departments are very much in proposals for consultation in the coming months. the frame here, whether it be the DHSC, the DWP, the DFE or, indeed, DEFRA, and my hon. Friend the Several speakers talked about the importance of disability Minister has not done a bad job of answering for all of employment. I am incredibly proud, as the Minister for them. However, what has been singularly lacking is the Disabled People, to have presided over record disability provision to him by those Departments of dates. When employment. In normal times, when I have the pleasure might we see an independent inquiry? When might we of travelling around the country on visits, when I talk to see the SEND review from the DFE? When might we young disabled people and say, “If you were the Minister, see measures to integrate health and social care effectively what would be the single thing that you would want to from the DHSC? I ask him in particular to take back to see?” the answer is nearly always, “I just want to have fellow Ministers the message we heard repeatedly from the same opportunities that my friends have for work colleagues about social care, the lack of attention on it, and career progression.” I have never lost sight of that. I and the impact that has had on the lived experience of speak as somebody who has employed and benefited way too many disabled people up and down the country from employing disabled people, both prior to being an in every single one of our constituencies. MP and as an MP.Wehave faced unprecedented challenges, As my hon. Friend the Minister said, the pandemic but we have not lessened our ambition to have a million gave the Government an unprecedented challenge, and more disabled people in work by 2027. I want to reiterate in many instances there was really good cross-Government that that has not changed. working to rise to the challenge. What Members need During covid, we have made changes to the support now is some sort of assurance that lessons have been provided. We have recently announced over 300 more learned and will continue to be learned because, should disability employment advisers, taking the figure to another public health crisis like covid hit us in future, over 1,000. We continue to review our Work and Health we cannot afford to have disabled people pushed to the programme. All of the plan for jobs is fully inclusive, back of the queue, have their needs forgotten and feel, and we have made changes to schemes such as Access to as too many of those who spoke to us of their lived Work, where we now provide support within the workplace. experiences said, forgotten, marginalised and as if they We will keep that beyond covid-19, which will perhaps did not matter. I urge him to ensure that that sensation open up opportunities for more people who have not is not left with them. been able to access work opportunities up to now. I am Question put and agreed to. proud that we have reached 20,000 employers signed up Resolved, to Disability Confident. The equivalent of 11.2 million That this House has considered the Fourth Report of the employees are now represented by businesses in the Women and Equalities Committee, “Unequal impact? Coronavirus, Disability Confident scheme, sharing best practice about disability and access to services: full Report”, HC 1050. helping disabled people into work, to progress in work and be retained in work. That is very much a priority 2.54 pm for me and the Department. Sitting suspended. 101WH 15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 102WH
Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning However, despite the recent increases in funding, the welcome White Paper, the kickstart fund and the other programmes that I have just mentioned, participation in [CHRISTINA REES in the Chair] adult skills and lifelong learning is in a dire state; it is at 3.15 pm its lowest level in 23 years. It is the case that 38% of adults have not participated in any learning since leaving Christina Rees (in the Chair): I remind hon. Members full-time education. Participation rates in adult education that there have been some changes to normal practice in have almost halved since 2004. Even worse, lifelong order to support the new hybrid arrangements. Timings learning is an affluent person’s game; those who might of debates have been amended to allow technical benefit most from adult learning and training, low-skilled arrangements to be made for the next debate. There will adults in low-income work or the unemployed, are by be suspensions between debates. I remind Members far the least likely to be doing it. It is the case that 49% participating, physically and virtually, that they must of adults from the lowest socioeconomic group have arrive for the start of debates in Westminster Hall and received no training since leaving school. are expected to remain for the entire debate. I must remind Members participating virtually that they are It is the already well-educated and the well-off who visible at all times, both to one another and to us in the are far more likely to participate. In 2016 92% of adults Boothroyd Room. If Members attending virtually have with a degree-level qualification undertook adult learning, any technical problems, they should email the Westminster compared with 53% of adults with no qualifications. I Hall Clerks’ email address. Members attending physically would argue that poor access to lifelong learning is one should clean their spaces before they use them and of the great social injustices of our time. We must before they leave the room. I remind Members that reverse the decline in participation and offer a way Mr Speaker has stated that masks should be worn in forward for those left-behind adults. There are haves Westminster Hall. and have-nots in terms of adult education in our country. I now call Robert Halfon, Chair of the Select Committee There is a significant problem with low basic skills. It on Education, to move the motion. is hard to believe the fifth largest economy in the world has 9 million working-age adults with poor literacy or 3.16 pm numeracy skills or both. Nine million adults also lack the basic digital skills that nowadays are essential for Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con) [V]: I beg to move, getting on in modern life, and 6 million adults do not That this House has considered the Third Report of the even have a qualification at level two, which is equivalent Education Committee, “A plan for an adult skills and lifelong learning revolution”, HC 278. to GCSE. In the past 10 years, just 17% of low-paid workers moved permanently out of low pay. It is an honour to serve under you in the Chair, Ms Rees. I am grateful to have secured this debate today Unequal access to lifelong learning is a social injustice on the Education Committee’s adult skills and lifelong that traps millions of workers in below-average earnings. learning report. Let me start by giving special thanks to Even before covid kicked in, our nation faced significant the Education Committee officers and advisers, who skills gaps. By 2024, there will be a shortfall of 4 million have spent so much time working on the inquiry with highly skilled workers. Colleges up and down the country, Members. And I pay tribute to all my parliamentary such as Harlow College, an exceptional further education colleagues on the Committee, who worked so hard on college in my constituency, will be central to the skills-led the report and evidence sessions. I welcome here today recovery, and we have to do all we can to support them. two of my colleagues on the Committee: my hon. Friend Support for colleges is especially important now. This the Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson)—I know that week, an Association of Colleges report found that I am not supposed to say “hon. Friend” about an three quarters of college students are between one and Opposition Member, but in this capacity I hope that you four months behind where they would normally be will allow me to do so, Ms Rees—and my hon. Friend expected to be at this stage of the academic year. The the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis). advanced manufacturing centre at Harlow College—a There are overwhelming benefits to lifelong learning— multimillion pound investment—is a leading example benefits for productivity and the economy, for health of what can be achieved when business, FE and the and wellbeing and for social justice and our communities. Government work together to make sure young adults Our nation faces significant skills challenges from the are retrained. fourth industrial revolution, automation, an ageing Part-time higher education has fallen into disrepair. workforce and the devastating impact of covid-19. The Part-time student numbers collapsed by 53% between Government are rising to those major challenges by 2008-09 and 2017-18, resulting in over 1 million lost providing some new funding for adult education, and I learners. When I think of potential part-time higher welcome the recent increases in finances that the education students, I think of a single parent in my Government have announced. The further education constituency who will not take that part-time opportunity White Paper marks a sea change in Government thinking because they are worried about the loan that they may about skills. The flagship £2.5 billion national skills have to take on. fund offers a significant opportunity to transform adult skills and lifelong learning. It will fund a lifetime skills Adult community learning is vital to social justice. It guarantee, supporting adults to access about 400 fully gives a helping hand to the hardest to reach adults, funded level 3 courses. The Government have also funded including those with no qualifications, learners in the a number of important schemes to support a post-covid most deprived communities, and those furthest from skills recovery. There is the £2 billion kickstart scheme, the job market. There has been, however, a 25% decline the hiring incentive of £3,000 for employers who hire in adult community learning participation since 2011-12 new apprentices—and much more besides. and a 32% fall since 2008-09. 103WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 104WH
[Robert Halfon] University and Birkbeck that do so much to widen access to learning for disadvantaged adults. Part-time Finally, we should all be concerned about the decline study provides a route to higher skills and higher pay in employer-led training. During our inquiry, our for adults alongside work or caring responsibilities. It Committee heard that 39% of employers admit to training offers a crucial second-chance route for mature students. none of their staff. Employer-led training has dropped The lifelong loan entitlement for modules at higher by half since the end of the 1990s. Previously, the technical and degree levels, which was set out in the FE Committee visited the Scandinavian countries, Switzerland White Paper, is a step forward in the right direction and and Germany.This kind of lack of training by businesses will improve access to flexible part-time learning, but as for their workforce is unthinkable in those countries. I mentioned earlier when I gave the example of a single Investment in workplace training favours the already parent in my constituency, the part-time learner cohort well qualified, and workers with the lowest prior is very different from the full-time one. Learners tend to qualifications are the least likely to have received job-related be more mature and highly debt-averse. On average, training in the first place. Some 32% of adults with they are older and have more financial commitments. degrees participated in in-work training, compared with Over a third have dependants to think about, and many just 9% of workers with no qualifications. are from very disadvantaged or modest backgrounds. I have set out some stark statistics about what is Offering fee grants to part-time learners from the most wrong. Our Committee tried to look at some of the disadvantaged backgrounds who study courses that solutions. I do believe that we can solve some of these meet the skills needs of the nation would really transform issues. Just 40 or 50 years ago Britain had an adult adult learning. Let us end the unfair anomaly that education system that was world-leading. Despite well- excludes part-time distance learners from receiving intentioned reforms over recent years, adult education maintenance support. policy making has too often suffered from initiative-itis, Another way to encourage adults to pursue higher lurching from one policy priority to the next. education, particularly those who might be more debt- Wecan rebuild this by pursuing an ambitious long-term averse, is to champion degree apprenticeships. Students strategy for adult skills and lifelong learning. The strategy earn while they learn, gaining the skills and qualifications has four pillars. First, let us fund an adult community to climb the ladder of opportunity. Allocating the learning centre in every town. Community learning supports £800 million-plus spent by universities and the Office adults who cannot even see the ladder of opportunity, for Students on access and participation to those universities let alone climb it. In Harlow, we are lucky to have a growing their degree apprentice student numbers would remarkable adult learning community centre, and it will help rocket-boost degree apprenticeships. If the recent soon be relocated to the beating heart of the town, in upwards trend in degree-level apprenticeships continues the main Harlow library building. Just because there is at the same rate, with some serious policy encouragement an adult community learning centre does not mean that it could take as little as 10 years for half of all university millions have to be spent on a new building or estate, students to be doing such courses. I think the Minister but there should be one for residents who need it. is the only person in the House who has done a degree Some 92% of community learning centres are rated apprenticeship, or at least the only Minister who has good or outstanding by Ofsted, and I have seen time done a degree apprenticeship. and again how they are an important bridge for people— Fourthly, to revitalise employer-led training, the many from disadvantaged backgrounds—to begin the Government should introduce tax credits for employers first stage of education. Community learning centres are who invest in training for their workforce. The Government places of social capital: they are real places that bring have a research and development tax credit and tax people together and that often get people who go there refunds for construction companies investing in machinery, to go on to further or additional education. Organisations as announced in the Budget, so why not invest in a skills such as the Workers’Educational Association, and HOLEX tax credit for the skills that are regarded as having members, do an incredible job at bringing learning to strategic importance for the nation? Those are the four disadvantaged communities. About 38% of Workers’ pillars needed for an ambitious long-term strategy for Educational Association learners are from disadvantaged adult skills and lifelong learning. To make a success of postcodes, 44% are on income-related benefits, and these reforms, we need flexible and modular hop-on, 41% have no or very low previous qualifications. hop-off learning. It should be like taking a train journey— Secondly, let us kickstart participation by introducing stopping at stations and then getting back on the train individual learning accounts, funded through the national again towards the destination. skills fund. Individual learning accounts would evolve There are not nearly enough qualifications that can funding into the hands of learners, giving them choice be taken in a bite-sized modular way. This is a huge and agency over their skills development. They should barrier to participation for adults with busy working have a strong social justice focus and initially be aimed lives and caring responsibilities. Much better careers at those who would benefit the most, including low-skilled, advice, individually tailored to help adults find the best low-paid adults. A further option might be to introduce learningopportunitiesforthem,withoutthehugereplication them for vital skills deficit subject areas, such as science, and duplication that already exists, is essential. Although technology, engineering and mathematics. We can start there are incredible career organisations and grassroots small and learn lessons from the success of individual organisations on the ground, I despair of the replication learning schemes in countries such as Singapore and and duplication and the huge amount of money that Scotland. goes into organisations such as the Careers and Enterprise Thirdly, part-time higher education needs to be nursed Company, the National Careers Service and many other back to health. The fall in part-time higher education organisations in the Department for Work and Pensions numbers undermines organisations such as the Open that replicate a lot of things and create a lot of the work 105WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 106WH that each of these organisations do. Careers advice, in Department for Education’s recent White Paper on terms of the Department for Education, should be further education. It falls short of the further education predominantly focused on skills, skills, skills. revolution that was promised. Despite all that, there is much to be proud of in our I worry that the Government have ignored a key adult education landscape. The four pillars set out in factor that is essential for success. Any adult skills and our report—a community learning centre in every town, training strategy must be backed up by a comprehensive individual learning accounts, boosting part-time higher industrial strategy that delivers economic justice for education and introducing a skills tax credit—must be towns like Birkenhead. I welcome the work that employers at the centre of the country’s adult learning revolution. are doing with Wirral Met College to develop training Let us build a lifelong learning system that supports all programmes for young people in my constituency. I adults to thrive.For too long our country has underinvested hope that the Committee’s proposed individual learning in adult lifelong learning. Our businesses have underinvested accounts and skills tax credits will help to support adult in training. Our skills deficit should be regarded as learners. unacceptable. The Prime Minister’s lifetime guarantee What is urgently needed is for the Government to get signals recognition that change is needed. So, too, does serious about creating jobs and training opportunities the Education Secretary’s acknowledgement that further for adult workers in the industries of the future, such as education has been historically underfunded and the green energy and the digital economy. Yet, it is not clear subsequent FE White Paper. But the proof of the how the recent further education White Paper relates to pudding is in the eating. The Government need to build the 10-year industrial strategy unveiled in 2017. Moreover, on the lifetime skills guarantee and really offer an adult the Business Secretary’s disastrous decision to axe the learning experience fit for the 21st century. Industrial Strategy Council suggests that this Government are not interested in the long-term, joined-up planning Christina Rees (in the Chair): I intend to start the that will be essential to deal with the unemployment wind-ups no later than 4.20 pm, so I would appreciate it and skills crisis that confronts us today. if the five Back-Bench speakers tailored the length The Committee is also right to call on the Government of their remarks to fit in with that timescale. I call to reinstate the union learning fund. As a lifelong trade Mick Whitley. unionist, I have seen at first hand the transformative role that the ULF plays in equipping those workers 3.32 pm least able to access learning opportunities with the basic Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab)[V]: It is a pleasure skills they need to survive in the job market. With every to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Rees. I welcome pound invested in the scheme returning £12.30 to the the opportunity to contribute to this debate and I thank wider economy, the Government’s decision to scrap it the right hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) for seems to me to be petty and ideologically driven—an securing it. I also draw attention to my entry in the act of industrial sabotage. It flies in the face of the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Government’s pledge to level up the country. Looking at the current state of post-16 education, I I urge the Education Secretary to go even further. In cannot help but think of how dramatically things have much of Europe, trade unions play a vital role alongside changed in the years since I was a young man. When I colleges and employers as a provider of adult learning left school there were proper training opportunities that opportunities, but there is not a single mention of the paved the way to secure,well-paid and lifelong employment. unions in the White Paper. It is time he finally stops That all changed in the 1980s when the Thatcher treating the unions as the enemy and realises the vital Government took a wrecking ball to our industrial role that they can play in any attempt to reach out to or heartlands and ripped the heart out of towns such as to level up left-behind workers. Birkenhead. As the factories, steelworks and shipyards The Committee’s report calls for bold and ambitious slammed their gates shut, the day-release apprenticeship action to prepare British workers for the immense challenges that gave my generation skills, jobs and hope all but of the coming decades. That must mean apprenticeships, vanished. Since then we have been stuck on a policy training, education, skills and jobs. Sadly, it appears merry-go-round that has taken us nowhere.Adult education such action is not on the Government’s agenda. and training now face a massive crisis since the incorporation of further education colleges in 1993. 3.37 pm There have been around 40 Green Papers on adult Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con) [V]: It is a pleasure to education policy, yet today participation in adult learning serve under your chairmanship, Ms Rees. I congratulate is at its lowest level in 24 years. Nearly half the poorest my right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow people in our country have had no additional training (Robert Halfon) on securing this debate and on the since leaving compulsory education. Well-paid quality pioneering work that he and his Committee are carrying apprenticeships are in scarce supply, too. In 2021, it is out, both generally with their inquiries and specifically easier for a young person to get an offer from Cambridge with the publication of this report. than it is to get an apprenticeship at Rolls-Royce. My interest is twofold: first, as a constituency MP, I therefore welcome the Education Select Committee’s where securing this revolution is vital, if we are to call for a well-funded long-term adult education strategy deliver sustained economic regeneration that transforms that gives adult workers the opportunity to learn new the lives of local people, and secondly, as chair of the skills. That is key to our being able to ensure that our all-party parliamentary group on further education and workforce can adapt and thrive in an economy convulsed lifelong learning. Local colleges, deeply embedded in by covid-19, Brexit, climate meltdown and the fourth their communities, such as East Coast College, with industrial revolution. However, I feel that the Select campuses in Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth, will be Committee, like me, will be bitterly disappointed by the the cornerstone on which this revolution is founded. 107WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 108WH
[Peter Aldous] cut to adult education funding, and it was announced eight months into the academic year in which it applies. There has been a need for this transformation for a This approach undermines the ethos of collaborative very long time, but we are now at the zero hour. If it is working that we should be promoting, and it is contrary not delivered now, the long-term implications for the to the aspirations of both the White Paper and the country and for many people will be profound. The Education Committee’s report, which we are debating challenges of improving productivity, enhancing social today. mobility and eliminating pockets of deprivation have I urge my hon. Friend the Minister, who I know is been with us for a long time, but they are now compounded passionately committed to securing a lifelong learning by the need to ensure as smooth as possible a pandemic revolution, to do all she can to ensure that the ESFA recovery, which includes the shock that there is likely to work with colleges to come up with a revised approach be from the ending of furlough, as well as making sure that will give them the financial security they need at that people of all ages have the skills required in a this challenging time. period of rapid technological change. I shall end on a positive note: the future can be In East Anglia there are enormous opportunities in incredibly exciting, with real benefits being secured for the low-carbon economy. It is vital that local people are communities and people all around the country. My able to acquire the necessary skills that are required for right hon. Friend and his Committee have come up with the rewarding and exciting jobs that will be available. It a compelling vision, and Government have embraced it, is also important to bear in mind that if we do not as have colleges and businesses in Dorset. We must now properly prepare for these challenges, many communities get on and deliver it. will remain left behind and for many people there will be a sense of personal despair and despondency. 3.43 pm The good news is that the Government recognise the Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: It need for change. The skills White Paper sets out a is a pleasure to be called in this debate, with you in the compelling vision, and there is a welcome recognition Chair, Ms Rees. of the important role to be played by existing institutions— whether that is local authorities, local colleges or local I thank the Education Select Committee for its businesses. outstanding report on the adult skills and lifelong learning landscape. It is honest and analytical, and it seeks to Both the lifetime skills guarantee and the lifetime provide a route map of reparation and advancement. In loan guarantee are welcome steps in the right direction. what has been an overly complex web of funding streams With the former, the restriction that it is available only and reduced opportunities, learning in adult life has for those who do not hold a level 3 qualification should become significantly bureaucratic, and nothing can disguise be revisited, as many people will need to reskill and the scale of the cuts to adult learning—which this upskill as the world of work changes. With the latter, confusion has presumably been intended to mask. there is a need to ensure that—where necessary— maintenance funding is provided as, without it, lifelong The sheer scale of lost learning is concerning and it learning will remain unaffordable for many. explains why,for a decade, productivity has been suffocated. It explains a decline in wellbeing and in mental and Moving forward, it is vital that Government work physical health. It most definitely explains a stifling of collaboratively with colleges. The report from the social mobility and—oh—the lost potential too. Independent Commission on the College of the Future, “The English College of the Future”, provides a template When we talk to colleges of further education and of how they should do this, with a statutory entitlement other local providers, it is clear that the Government for lifelong learning for every adult, which includes the have failed to understand the power of adult learning. necessary financial support. To this day, there is still a woeful insufficiency in funding. College staff are often on low pay and insecure contracts— Local colleges should be a touchpoint for people devalued like no other professionals in the public sector, throughout their lives, where they will go to reskill and yet charged with the greatest of responsibilities, which retrain in response to technological change, such as the is to nurture adults in a learning environment, which, in move to a carbon-neutral economy. turn, unlocks new job opportunities, moves people out In many respects, the future is bright and exciting, of poverty, and brings fulfilment and achievement. but there are two immediate issues that need to be The Minister will put a gloss coating on the tenure of addressed. Firstly, there is a need for a long-term funding her Government, but I have to say that nothing but settlement, which should be addressed at the forthcoming regret should drive a commitment to do far more. A spending review later this year. The recent uplifts are 45% cut in skills funding since the Tories came to power, welcome, but there remains a great gulf between what a as the Augar review noted, cannot be justified in terms university student receives, averaging £6,600 per annum, of either economic or social equity. With participation and what a further education college student is provided in adult education at a 23-year low, that takes us back to with, which is just over £1,000 at £1,050 per annum. The the period when Labour picked up the failure of the funding settlement should be for longer—for three years— previous Tory Government. and should be simpler. Now, 9 million people are abandoned to low literacy Secondly, the Education and Skills Funding Agency’s and numeracy skills, 6 million are without a GCSE or decision to claw back adult skills funding from colleges equivalent qualification—a decline of 87% under this and local authorities if they missed their 2020-2021 Government—9 million are without the low-level digital academic year targets by more than 10% must be revisited skills necessary to navigate an increasingly digitalised and reviewed urgently.College finances have been ravaged society; 15% of 19-year-olds today do not have a level 2 by the pandemic; the clawback is equivalent to a £60 million qualification, and 60% do not have a level 3. Those 109WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 110WH people would have been just nine years old when this they have taught over the last six months and skilled up Government came in, and their education has taken have an opportunity to move into a secure learning place on the Government’s watch. environment. As we heard earlier, 49% of adults from the lowest I also call for a right to learn. It is shameful that socioeconomic groups have had no training since leaving 39% of employers do not train any of their staff, yet school. Just last month, the Minister scrapped the union they play a part in the economy. Everyone must have learning fund, not seeking to immerse herself in the that responsibility, and a right to learn enshrined in law evidence of how it got people who were furthest from would secure that. education to develop a passion to learn, with the union On digital, we have got a lot of catching up to do as a learning reps at their side, giving them a new confidence. country, and these last 13 months have shown the Even now, the threat of the Education and Skills Funding deficit that exists. Free broadband, as Labour proposed Agency clawing back millions of pounds from the sector at the last election, would certainly be a step on the way, is threatening the finances of colleges, as an impossible but ensuring that people have the tools they need to be target of 90% provision of adult learning through the digitally savvy enough to navigate their way through the pandemic was set and is unachievable. economy is absolutely vital, and there can be no holding Scrapping that threshold today would show some back. commitment to colleges that a lot more is urgently We need to have a look at ways of unshackling those needed, but, as ever, cuts have consequences, and those opportunities in higher education to see more modular must be understood and never repeated. While the learning and more flexibility in part-time learning. Of National Skills Fund is welcome, it must be recognised course, that will mean that the funding structures need as a first step, since it will replace only a fifth of all that to change. I think it is high time that we look at the way has been stripped away in the last decade. that tuition fees have suffocated opportunities for people, and I certainly am an advocate of free higher education. If we are serious about seeing a skills revolution—and I am—we have to take down the barriers to learning, In particular, I want to close by bringing to the recognise its return, and empower local communities, Minister’s attention an issue that a constituent raised local colleges and universities with the funding and with me. Her story is that she fled domestic violence, scope they need to make learning accessible. In York, I but education gave her an opportunity not just to see how York College is leading the skills strategy, and rebuild her skills, but to rebuild herself. As the Domestic how the universities and colleges are shaping the economic Abuse Bill is being debated in the Chamber right now, strategy for the city. The value of those powerhouses I ask the Minister to look at what my constituent is must be understood. calling for: a secure way into further and higher education for people fleeing domestic violence so they have an On funding, I agree with the call from the hon. opportunity to start their lives again. Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) for a long-term If we applied that to other people experiencing challenges plan, which is an economic necessity, and for Labour it and vulnerabilities, just think how transformative it goes to the core of our values. Withholding vital funding would be. I look at the work of Thames Valley police in chokes off the economy and chokes off opportunity, yet diverting people out of county lines and the whole area the Minister is significantly holding back on the resources of dealing drugs, and getting those youngsters into a needed, not least at this time of crisis. We have heard learning framework instead of the criminal justice system. about the ageing workforce and the loss of skills through That has been transformational not least in reducing Brexit, advances in technology and automation. Obviously, crime but also in giving those youngsters a chance the fall-out from the pandemic, which we are facing again. now, and the climate catastrophe will demand real new skills to turn the situation around. Therefore, adult As we come out of this pandemic, more than ever we skills and lifelong learning have to be funded effectively. have seen the need to address mental health and loneliness, and some of the real challenges people have experienced. The report shows that, incredibly, every pound invested Social prescribing is at the frontier of that, and having a in levels 1 to 3 of adult learning returns between £20 and pathway into learning at this point in time could certainly £30. I am not sure that there is a better return anywhere address many of the health and wellbeing needs that else in the economy, so that is an investment that pays people are facing. A creative Government could do so back, but to upskill and reskill, barriers have to be much to transform the lives of the people we represent taken down. That is why I support measures that would as well as our economy, and I trust the Minister will ensure that adults who were learning received free childcare. reflect on the power of her portfolio and use it to its I would remove the age gaps, particularly if we are to fullest. consider diversification of skills. Yes, invest in community learning centres in every town and city, which would 3.53 pm ensure a place-based approach to learning and the Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab) [V]: It is a pleasure to economy.Weshould reinstitute individual learning accounts. serve under your chairship, Ms Rees, and thank you for Yes, the governance needed changing, but they were calling me in this very important debate. I congratulate transformative, as I witnessed during my time as a the right hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on union official. securing this debate, and on his work chairing the I also call on the Government to look at the kickstart Education Committee and bringing this report forward. scheme. Many employers have been reluctant to take I am a member of the Education Committee, and I am up this opportunity because they are concerned pleased to have been able to listen to and review the about what happens to people on the scheme at the end evidence that we were given from many different quarters of the six months. Having a learning offer would and work with the team on this report. I am glad it has certainly encourage employers to know that the people got an airing today. 111WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 112WH
[Fleur Anderson] places that provide information and support. They would help to overcome the current fragmented funding and The adult skills and lifelong learning report calls for provision, which the Government acknowledge, but do revolutionary action. It does not deserve to be sitting on not address, in their response to the Select Committee’s a dusty shelf; it deserves to be brought out and put into report. action because, as we have heard, it is needed now more It is very hard to access information and to get the than ever. required mentoring and support for learning. That is The Education Committee started working on this acknowledged by the Government, and it has been report before covid, and our recommendations have recognised by others who have spoken today. That is become even more important since covid. The impact why there is a recommendation in the report for careers that covid has had on employment, on loss of income, guidance, information and support. It can be especially on loss of businesses, on the self-employed, on low difficult when someone is working two jobs, or caring earners, on stay-at-home parents and on young people for children or parents; when there are so many different has been very high, but there are many ways forward to providers with different and changing courses in different address the issues in this report. places, most of which are currently without childcare As has been said, across England, 9 million adults on site; or if someone’s literacy or confidence are not lack functional literacy and numeracy skills. Over the very good, they have special educational needs or they last decade,adult learner numbers have fallen by 3.8 million. think that learning is not for them. The poorest adults are often the least likely to access the Having one local centre physically and online would training they need the most. There has been a 45% help to overcome the significant barriers to adult education. decline in funding for adult skills in the last decade, so The centre would be a trusted provider, and it would there has never been more of a need for a shake-up in help to overcome the psychological barriers to education our adult learning. The current system is absolutely that many people experience. The Government response failing. to the report stated: Lifelong learning is essential for skilling up, for enabling “Adults, particularly those with lower skills, face significant people to develop their potential and achieve things, physical and psychological barriers to learning.” and for tackling inequalities in all our communities, Community learning centres would enable people to which have grown ever wider under covid. It is essential overcome those barriers. for mental health and wellbeing, and for tackling isolation. It is also vital for our economic growth as a country, Wehave heard time and time again about the importance and for keeping our workforce skilled, adaptable and of trusted providers. The union learning fund has been able to respond to climate change and to changing mentioned. It showed the importance of in-work mentors circumstances in the labour market. That is why this providing support and guidance, encouraging people to report asks for no less than a revolution in lifelong apply for things and supporting them to go on in learning. education, which is necessary to get on to the ladder, let Before becoming an MP,I used to work for a community alone up it. Cutting the union learning fund has been a learning centre, the Katherine Low Settlement. It provides huge step backwards for adult learning, and I hope that English for speakers of other languages—ESOL— and decision can still be reversed. The importance of employer- other courses, and classes for over 100 local people. It led learning cannot be overestimated. provides the means for building community, empowering What else could a community learning centre provide? parents and getting access to jobs. I have seen in action It could be a place that provided support for an increase this kind of organisation, which could provide a community in qualifications, up to levels 2 and 3, which are under- hub, so I know that it is perfectly possible. However, the utilised at the moment. It could also be a place for Government response to the recommendation in the part-time learning and the modular learning that is report for a community learning centre in every town recommended in the report. Very importantly, a centre was very disappointing. I will focus on this recommendation would provide childcare alongside courses in the same today, and I hope that in her response, the Minister will place. If that childcare were free, that would be a give more reasons for hope in relation to bringing this revolution in lifelong learning. There would need to be recommendation to life. enough courses, and so enough people with children, in Community learning centres are a major one place to make childcare a viable option, and the recommendation, based on the Education Committee centre would need to be close enough—a buggy walk or receiving evidence from a variety of educators, looking bus ride away—to allow people to get back and pick up at the failures in our system up to now and considering their kids from school. Those practical details will make solutions that would address many different barriers to community learning centres work, and they are why education all at once. The centres do not need to be new such centres are so needed. buildings or new organisations that require many millions A community learning centre would also be an important in funding; lots of community spaces or education place for addressing the dire cuts in ESOL provision, providers could step up and provide this.In my constituency, enabling communities to be integrated. The Government South Thames College could be one of these providers, response to the report just acknowledges the current working in conjunction with other partnerships. There low ESOL provision numbers, as if that is great, and are lots of places on our high streets that could provide says nothing about the swingeing cuts to ESOL courses— the necessary transformation and high profile for adult especially those with childcare—which leave so many learning. people without the English skills that they need to get That one innovative change—having a community access to further courses, to be empowered parents in learning centre in every town—would bring together so talking to teachers, and to contribute in the fullest way, many different solutions. The centres could be well-known as they want to, in our communities. 113WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 114WH
A community learning hub would also be that place One of the big, glaring holes is the fact that employers that builds and strengthens communities. It has that should be doing much more to train their workers. For a social capital that has been mentioned, and would long time the United Kingdom has had a productivity inspire more learning. There would be different generations, problem, and business has often looked to the Government and ways for someone to get the training needed to get a to come up with initiatives to tackle it. However, it job or a better job, tackle in-work poverty, or see seems to me it could be greatly helped if business would different courses that they never knew existed, all in one invest properly in its people. As an example, David place in their town. What an amazing vision—but instead O’Connor worked his way up from the shop floor and is of meeting that ambition and new vision with enthusiasm, now the chief executive officer of Churchill China in the Government response was like taking a cold shower. my constituency, which is a multimillion-pound company. It listed existing provision and talked about the adult That happened through the company investing in him, education budget as the only answer. However, that and giving him the opportunity to go to Staffordshire adult education budget for local government has been University and gain qualifications, so that he is now cut, from £3 billion in 2010 to £1.5 billion now—so it is driving that company from the very top. Ultimately, it is hardly the answer. one of the great success stories in my local area; there A vital partnership of councils and education and are so many others that I could rant about today, but I community organisations is perfectly possible, doable want to make sure that we focus on this. and achievable, and it is fantastic value for money. It I do think that the Minister has done some superb could be the revolution that we need to meet the crisis work with the FE reform White Paper. It is a real step that we face. I hope that that recommendation will not forward in the right direction, and a real change in sit on a dusty shelf but will be given life and used, so attitude towards adult education. I believe that we in that part of our building back better after covid will be this country have fallen into the trap of seeing education an adult learning revolution across the country—starting as beginning at four and ending at 18. Other countries, just a short walk or bus ride away. such as Germany, have managed to power on ahead. Christina Rees (in the Chair): There is a series of votes They have got rid of that silly gold standard when it in the House, but there is no need to suspend the sitting, comes to A-levels and said that a vocational, technical because we all have proxy votes, so we shall plough on. qualification is as important as an academic one. This has seen them drive massively forward in many of their 4.1 pm vocational qualifications. Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con) [V]: The lifetime skills guarantee is something I am very May I say what a pleasure it is to serve under your excited by, as many other Members have said. I know chairmanship, Ms Rees? I congratulate my right hon. that places such as Stoke on Trent College, run by Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on Denise Brown, are extremely excited to take part, and securing this important debate, and on all the contributions Burslem campus in my constituency is really looking that have been made. It is an absolute honour to speak forward to hosting this. However, a conversation with on a report that I assisted with, alongside my right hon. Denise produced a few queries, questions and bits of Friend and the hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson), advice about how we can make this lifetime skills guarantee as members of the Education Committee. really work, and I think they would be helpful to the Minister. One concern is that limiting the guarantee to Education is particularly important to me. I refer adults who have not yet achieved a full level 3 qualification hon. Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ does not fully address the retraining issue. One way of Financial Interests, because I spent eight and a half avoiding the problem would be to offer loan-maxed years, before entering this place, as a secondary school graduates free retraining courses at levels 3, 4 and 5 in teacher. I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Member technical subjects. for Harlow and the hon. Member for Putney are sick to death of hearing about that. Also, my father benefited Also, the qualification list that has been approved for as an adult from going through the Open University the lifetime skills guarantee is too narrow, in my opinion. process, which enabled him to get on the career path Local enterprise partnerships or chambers of commerce that perhaps was not expected for him, avoiding factory could be given the authority to include qualifications work in Trowbridge,and ending up working in accountancy. that are not on the national list if those qualifications In fact, he has gone further into teaching. met local or regional labour market demands. At the Adult education is important—particularly for the moment, we have a shortage of lecturers and teachers in people of Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke. higher technical subjects in colleges and other providers. The sad reality is that a recent report by the Office for Part of that is because of pay, and because enticing Students said that my constituency is the seventh worst highly skilled technical people to teach in colleges is an of 535 English constituencies for people going on to uphill battle. As such, Denise Brown wanted me to put higher education. In 2019 the number of people achieving to the Minister the idea of a scheme whereby employers a level 3 qualification by the age of 19 in Stoke-on-Trent loan members of their staff to a college, and the college was under 50%, and only three quarters of people would pick up maybe 20% of the salary cost. In that achieved a level 2 qualification by that age. That challenge way, employers and colleges can work much more closely has only got worse, as we are facing a joint mission: than ever before and bring the very best of their business getting millions of people back into work, because of into the classroom, ensuring that those young people or the global pandemic, and driving up the skill levels of adults are ready for the education ahead. those who were already being left behind before it arrived. Finally, qualifications at level 3 are often a two-year Put simply, there is a more pressing need than ever for programme, and this links into issues with the Department people to be able to retrain, reskill and upskill throughout for Work and Pensions. If adults are to retrain and get their lives. back into the workplace, the level 3 qualification needs 115WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 116WH
[Jonathan Gullis] I took the advice of my right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow about apprenticeships. As the vice-chair of to be shorter. Work needs to be done with the awarding the all-party parliamentary group on apprenticeships, I organisations to ensure that level 3 qualifications can be thought I should put my money where my mouth is, so I achieved as quickly as possible, so accreditation of am advertising at the moment for my very own apprentice, prior learning needs to be taken into account so that adults who will get a level 3 qualification. I have not advertised follow courses that do not repeat what they already for an 18 to 20-year-old, or even for an 18 to 25-year-old. know. Awarding organisations also need to develop I have said that anyone who wants the opportunity shorter qualifications that can be achieved in one academic should apply regardless of age, because I want to make year. I also put that challenge to the higher education sure that I am reinvesting in my community and sending sector. In many cases, a three-year degree can easily be a signal out to many small and medium-sized enterprises done in two years, and in my personal opinion, that that if I can do it, they can do it too and give access to should be the approach that is taken. earn and learn, which will hopefully drive so many more individuals into higher education. That is the way We have heard fantastic comments and contributions it will happen. It is about investing in people and from Members about the community learning centre in showing that we are here to care. every town, and I fully endorse them. The school building I should discuss SEND provision in this country. An sits there empty for so many weeks and months throughout awful lot of adults were not diagnosed with dyslexia, the year, yet it is one of the biggest community assets. dyspraxia or other learning needs when they were at What I sometimes get very scared about with Government school. In fact, those assessments were not even prevalent is that we look for the easy solution, which is the shiny in the school that I went to, and I was privileged to go to building. Tothe people of Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove Princethorpe College, a private school just outside and Talke, capital investment projects are nice, but Leamington Spa. I had school friends who were dyslexic people are so sceptical of these shiny buildings, because and who were put in the bottom set; they were just four or five years after they have been built, they are assumed to be stupid, but actually that was far from the inevitably mothballing away and nothing is happening truth. They were people who needed support and help. with them. It then costs millions of pounds of local tax We have to invest in making sure that such people have payers’ money to repurpose them for the future, or the opportunity to learn and have a support network millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money from the around them. Government to turn them into housing or knock them down, creating empty brownfield sites. What we need is The national tutoring programme, which I appreciate revenue funding, investing in people to support them. is slightly off-topic, is not delivering as it should be. That money could be going into colleges and schools to I bang on about Hilary Cottam’s “Radical Help”, invest in the type of additional support that is needed, and I admit to being a late converter. It was Danny be it online or person-to-person, or more teachers being Flynn from YMCA North Staffordshire—a proud, self- paid to stay on later in the day, so that they can work confessed socialist—who told me to read Hilary. She with individuals. Ultimately, there are solutions to all talks about investing in people by having these community these problems. learning centres on our high streets, in our libraries, and I am proud to be part of the report. I am proud to see in our schools or colleges. In them, we would have that the Government are taking the first big step, but people from those communities who understand, empathise there is still a long way to go and many challenges with, and can support and guide others from the ahead. We cannot put up our feet and pat ourselves on community. An awful lot of adults feel very let down by the back at this very moment. We have to go full steam the education system of the ’60s, the ’70s, and in some ahead and realise that if we are really going to change cases the ’80s as well. They feel it was an education the mindset of a nation, it has to come from employers, system that did not serve them properly, so they are the Government and the general public understanding sceptical about what people want to do. If we invest in that education does not end at 18—in fact, it never ends people to build community relationships and to network at all. within those communities, and if we find ways to tackle other problems, which as childcare, which our report Christina Rees (in the Chair): I call the Opposition rightly cites—ultimately we can go a lot further. I really spokesperson, Toby Perkins. If the bell goes, can you believe that if we can find ways to allow parents,particularly please continue? single parents, to have free additional childcare if they are taking up a qualification, so that they can do that 4.13 pm course to the best of their ability while ensuring their child is also receiving a good education, good healthcare Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): It is a great and safeguarding, it will be a big step in the right pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Ms Rees. direction. I thank the Committee for an excellent report, and I congratulate the right hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Ultimately, education is the biggest leveller that we Halfon) not just on the report and on securing the have in society. If levelling up is really to be achieved, it debate, but on his wider commitment to this subject. He will be through education. No matter how many things is a powerful voice speaking up for the sector, and his we build or how much money we invest, education is speech once again reflected that. ultimately what will improve social mobility.Stoke-on-Trent The report produced by the Committee is excellent. is in the bottom fifth of the country for social mobility—a As my hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead scary statistic that reminds me and the team I work with (Mick Whitley) said, it is a bold report that goes further here in Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke of than the Government’s suggestions, and the Committee the sheer challenge that we face today. has made a number of recommendations that really 117WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 118WH should be investigated more fully. We have heard a lot approach. Close to where I live, there used to be a about how vital skills are. We have heard not only about college called North Derbyshire Tertiary College. It has the ways we have stepped backwards as a country in long gone now, but it was funded by a penny levy on adult education and lifelong learning over the course of miners that they paid at the end of their shift on a recent years, but about the scale of the challenge, which Friday.Men arriving back at the surface after an exhausting has been brought into particularly sharp focus by the day at the coalface would drop a penny in a tin to help coronavirus crisis. them learn to read and write and to educate their I think the sector has welcomed the rhetoric from the children, so that for the next generation there would be Government and the sense that there is a greater focus choices other than following their fathers down the pit. on further education and skills, but the sector and, It was never about improving their use to their employers; indeed, learners will judge the Government by their it was about investing in their communities and themselves actions and funding, not by their words. The sector’s to widen those opportunities. experience over the last 11 years is an important piece It is the Government’s failure to understand that of context. It has had a decade of funding cuts. Adult principle that leads them to saystupid things like Unionlearn education in particular has been savagely cut. As Members was of no value, because it mainly worked with people referred to, we have recently seen the clawback of adult who were already in work. Of course! No one suggested education funding and the further education sector that Unionlearn was the only skills approach the excluded from the Government’s main post-covid jobs Government needed, but a programme with a great programme—the failing kickstart programme. We have success rate of helping workers to learn skills that will seen an obsession with programmes aimed at major help them get promoted or get a pay rise has real value. employers, often excluding towns and rural communities, People do not need to be out of work to be able to gain whose economies are based much more on small and value from improving their skills. medium-sized enterprises and sole traders.The programmes The Committee’s report makes some really sensible the Government have introduced have lacked scale, suggestions. I find very unconvincing the Government’s ambition and urgency. assurances that many of the issues raised by the Committee are already in hand. For example, we already know that The Minister probably did not help with expectation there has been a 50% real-terms reduction in adult management regarding the White Paper. She regularly education funding under this Government, so the dismissal promised in the run-up to its publication that we were of the Committee’s suggestion that the spending increase going to see transformational reforms that would offer the required for adult education should be properly costed biggest change to the sector in 60 years. While I recognise, is most unconvincing. as the hon. Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) did, that lasting transformation is very difficult when you My hon. Friend the Member for York Central only have one-year budgets, the White Paper represents (Rachael Maskell) spoke about the value of adult learning, a considerable missed opportunity. My initial response but also about how large the real-terms reduction has was that it was predominantly lacking in ambition and been. We cannot get away from the importance of that scale and so would not take the sector far enough down funding, and we know that adult education has seen the path required at a moment of such seismic challenge. catastrophic reductions in funding during the past 11 years. Furthermore, there are genuine worries that, far from The right hon. Member for Harlow referred to well not going far enough in the right direction, there are intentioned reforms, and I am sure that in many areas elements of the White Paper that are actually boldly there were well intentioned reforms, but it is impossible marching in the wrong direction. I shall expand upon to argue that the specific cuts made to adult education my views to that in a moment. were well intentioned. That was a positive decision that the Government made. The Government can address We have heard really powerful testimony from many that or choose not to, but they should not pretend that hon. Members. I particularly enjoyed what my hon. those funding losses are not real or that they have been Friend the Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) said, in any way addressed since the right hon. Member for that the Government just does not really get further Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Boris Johnson) became education yet. Whatever their narrative says, successive Prime Minister. policy and funding decisions suggest that the Government I welcome the Committee’s call for funding streams see further education very much as something that to be consolidated and streamlined. The Government narrowly loads skills that an employer needs into a outlined their ambitions to do that, but their approach recipient who goes from unemployed to an employee. so far has added barriers and complexities, not reduced Of course, skilling people for specific jobs and careers is them, so there is—I will be generous—widespread a vital function of the further education sector, but scepticism about whether the Government will deliver further education is about so much more than that. My on their ambitions in that regard. I welcome the lifelong hon. Friend spoke powerfully about what further education learning entitlement proposal, but given that the lifetime and adult education is all about. It is about second skills guarantee has turned out to be far more limited in chances; it is about alternative learning environments, scope than expected, as the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent often for those who did not thrive at school; it is about North (Jonathan Gullis) said, the line providing a vehicle that helps local communities, employers, “We will consult on the detail” learners and learning institutions to work together. is doing a lot of heavy lifting in the Government response I sense that this is a White Paper that lacks soul. to that recommendation. Further education is not just a service; it is a way of life, The Government have huge confidence that their a pathway and a staircase.It is transformative, empowering, desire to put employers in the driving seat will address beautiful, and it changes people’s lives, not just their Britain’s skills challenges, but the right hon. Member jobs. That sense of joy and boundless opportunity is for Harlow was right to say that 39% of employers entirely missing from the Government’s very narrow admit to providing no training whatever, so the idea 119WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 120WH
[Mr Toby Perkins] hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) on securing this important debate. I know he cares very that employers being in the driving seat will resolve all deeply about adult skills, both in his role as Chair of these challenges is, I think, deeply concerning. Of course the Education Committee and as a former Minister of employers are crucial stakeholders in this approach and State for Apprenticeships and Skills. I follow in his absolutely have to be in the room, but there is considerable footsteps to a great degree. doubt as to the extent to which they want or are able to The Government welcome the Education Committee’s drive the vehicle. report on adult skills and lifelong learning and have It is a stunning indictment of the Government’s responded to all the Committee’s recommendations. I approach to working with businesses that local enterprise thank all members of the Committee for all the work partnerships seem to be entirely missing from the White they do in this area. We may not agree on every detail, Paper. The report, in recommendation 11, refers to but we are all passionate about changing the lives of the attempts to bring local enterprise partnerships back in, people who need skills to get on in life. In our response, but the Government response does not even mention we set out what we are going to do to address the that recommendation on local enterprise partnerships. challenges presented by covid-19, as well as our longer-term Clearly,they are entirely shut out. Chambers of commerce strategy for ensuring that we have the skills that the have some brilliant branches and great people and they future economy needs. I want to touch upon these two are capable of excellent practice, but there is a large gap things today because they are vitally important, as between where those organisations’ current capacity many Members have said. is and their ability to play the kind of role that the I agree with what many hon. Members have said. The Government appear to envisage. pandemic has had a huge impact on the lives of many It is telling that 50% of the Government’s adult individuals and the topic of adult skills and lifelong education budget is devolved to the seven mayoral learning has never been more important. We know from combined authority areas and London. It is depressing the 2008 economic downturn that for some people, that the Government seem to be doing an about-turn especially young people and those in low-skilled and on devolution. The Government’s dismissal of the low-paid jobs, economic scarring can have a lifelong Committee’s suggestion about devolving the National detrimental effect on future prospects. I reassure the Careers Service is an example of that. They have no Committee that the Government are acutely aware of plan for devolution to those areas not in the shadow of that and we are doing everything we can to avoid that. a major city, and therefore a very limited plan for We have learnt the lessons of 2008. The Government have addressing the skills approach needed to target town taken some quick action to support those affected by and rural areas. That is particularly damaging because covid-19, but we are always looking to see what we can those are the areas most likely to be without the major do to rebuild, to build back better,to recover our economy employers that seem to drive so much of this Government’s and so on. Adult skills will be a key part of that. approach to skills. Many of us live in towns dominated At the beginning of the pandemic, in April 2020, the not by three or four employers of thousands of people, Department for Education introduced the skills toolkit. but by thousands of employers of three or four people. It was there as something that was useful for people to They have been widely shut out of the Government’s do when we first went into lockdown and on furlough. reforms thus far, and there is nothing in the skills White Providers included the Open University,Google, Amazon, Paper that goes close to addressing those challenges. FutureLearn and many others. They are delivering online Turning for a moment to the specific challenges that courses, from practical maths to computer science and face the Government now, I remain mystified that the coding courses, to help people stay in work or to use the Government have failed to take up the apprenticeship time they had to take up new opportunities. That offer wage subsidy idea put forward by Labour, utilising the was expanded last September to more than 70 courses. money that remains unspent in the apprenticeship levy As of February this year, less than a year after it pot to support funding for the first year of new started, there had been an estimated 176,800 course apprenticeships. I would also like the Minister to offer registrations—only one of them was mine—and 33,600 some justification for the ridiculous and damaging decision course completions, and one of them was mine, too. referred to by the hon. Member for Waveney to claw The Chancellor’s plan for jobs is also protecting, back adult education funds where providers have provided supporting and creating jobs across the country. We less than 90% of the contracted amount. For those want to help people across the country, whether they colleges that do most back-to-work courses or focus are starting out on their career, thinking of updating particularly on ESOL work, that target is totally unrealistic. their skills or considering changing their career. The It will inevitably fall to colleges to at best cancel pay hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley) mentioned awards and, in many cases, make redundancies. the challenges in the industrial strategy. “Build Back Better: our plan for growth” contains many of the I really welcome this report and the contribution that Government’s plans. There is also the levelling up fund, the right hon. Member for Harlow and his Committee which has some excellent uses to help level up and continue to make to this incredibly important area, but ensure that we genuinely build back better. I think that the Government response to the report shows that there is still a long, long way to go before We have increased our investment in the National these challenges are properly tackled. Careers Service. We are enabling more careers advisers to provide personalised careers advice for more people whose jobs or learning have been impacted by covid. We 4.24 pm have doubled the number of work coaches for those The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education who are going into the jobcentre. We are getting prepared (Gillian Keegan): It is truly a pleasure to serve under to make sure that we are there to help people, however your chairmanship, Ms Rees. I congratulate my right they access services and whatever help they need. 121WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 122WH
For those aged 16 to 24 and facing barriers to entering Available since 1 April, we are fully funding any adult work or an apprenticeship, we are increasing the number aged 24 and over who wants to achieve their first of traineeships to give more personalised training, including A-level equivalent qualification. They will be able to in English and maths—many hon. Members mentioned access more than 400 valuable courses as part of the additional support required in those areas—and work lifetime skills guarantee. The free courses for jobs offer experience to help people progress. We are investing an is backed by £95 million from the national skills fund in additional £126 million in traineeships in the 2021-22 year one, which removes the barrier to training for academic year. millions of adults and gives them the chance to get Traineeships and pre-apprenticeships provide work-based really valuable training. The list is not static. The courses learning focused on improving a young person’s abilities, can change. In fact, we have added more courses already, including how to look and apply for a job, how to so it is not set in stone. We will adapt as required. prepare and how to be successful in the workplace. The qualifications on offer are already fantastic. Adults They allow a young person to achieve the level 1 or 2 can take them up, boost their career prospects and qualifications they may have missed out on. Digital wages, and help fill the skills gap. For example, from a skills are essential, and they are included, if the person diploma in engineering technology, they can progress did not do well in those subjects at school. There is also on to roles in maintenance and manufacturing engineering. a vocational and occupational element of learning and, There is electrical installation, adult care, and all of the if required, qualifications aligned to a sectoral occupation. areas where we have skills shortages. This is an important The programme includes, vitally, work experience part of our offer. and a placement that lasts anywhere between two and The second part of the lifetime skills guarantee is eight weeks. At the end, we hope that all those young bootcamps. The first ones started in the west midlands, people will be offered a job or an apprenticeship.Businesses Greater Manchester, Lancashire, and Liverpool City have a vital role to play, as my hon. Friend the Member Region. They are absolutely brilliant. Members should for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) said, alongside go and see them. I would be happy to go with members business representative organisations, colleges, training of the Committee when we can. There is the School of providers, other local organisations, councils, LEPs and Code bootcamp. We have heard brilliant stories about mayoral combined authorities. This is part of the local changing lives. A print production manager for 15 years working together. was made redundant from his job. He was looking for a In terms of businesses, a lot is happening already. I change, something different to do, and he said, “The mentioned traineeships, and Specsavers is a large employer School of Code has truly changed my life. I have the engaged in a traineeship programme as a way of recruiting skills and confidence to change careers and do something apprentices. It now has a 100% success rate of progressing I truly love.” He has now launched as a junior software young people who have completed a traineeship into engineer at Wyze. There are so many examples: photonics, an apprenticeship, and we want more of these models. electronics, electrical engineering. Many companies are Smallerbusinessesaswellhaveengaged—NexusAccountants involved and we are looking to spread them all across has supported traineeships—enabling young people to the country. access higher level apprenticeships and nurturing them Many Members have mentioned apprentices and along the way. apprenticeships. There are obviously incentives. They are We have sector-based work academies also helping to so important and we have 130 level 6 and 7 standards make sure that we have a sector-based offer for employability now.I am a huge fan. As my right hon. Friend the Member training, work experience and so on that lasts up to six for Harlow said, I am the only degree apprentice in the weeks. Many Members mentioned essential digital skills. House. The White Paper is a huge opportunity. Many We have updated them and they were available from mentioned flexible modular provision. We will make August last year. On community learning, we have sure that that is included, and we will simplify funding. 259 providers in multiple centres across the country, In conclusion, timing is everything, as my hon. Friend and we have been working closely with the Department the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous) mentioned. for Work and Pensions to make sure that more unemployed We will now make sure that this does not collect dust on people can take advantage of the lifetime skills guarantee. the shelf. The White Paper delivers on that technical We are piloting an extension to the length of time that revolution—the biggest in 60 years—and we are committed they can receive universal credit while doing work-focused to ensuring that we have a skills system that will offer study from later this month. We are delighted about individuals all they need to be successful in life, and will that, because it means that universal credit claimants enable our economy to build back better as a nation. will now be able to train full time for up to 12 weeks, or 16 weeks if they are on a full-time skills bootcamp in Christina Rees (in the Chair): I thank the Opposition England, while receiving universal credit to support spokesperson and the Minister for speaking on through their living costs. This will give them many more options the bells, which is not easy; I appreciate it. Robert and they will get the opportunity to improve the productivity Halfon, would you like a couple of minutes to wind up? of the country by using the time to ensure that they get more skills, become more valuable and secure their 4.35 pm work future. Robert Halfon [V]: Thank you, Ms Rees, and I thank Through the national skills fund, we have the potential the hon. Members and Friends who have spoken this to deliver opportunities to generations of adults who afternoon. I think the Minister will see that there is previously have been left behind. We will do more than significant cross-party unity on this, particularly on nurse things back to health. We will make sure that we issues such as community learning, raised so eloquently invest £2.5 billion—£3 billion including Barnett funding by the hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) and for the devolved Administrations. It is a significant my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North investment and we want to make sure it changes lives. (Jonathan Gullis). 123WH Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning15 APRIL 2021 Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning 124WH
[Robert Halfon] Stoke-on-Trent North also spoke about the Open University, which I think is one of the great reforms of The shadow Minister,the hon. Member for Chesterfield the 20th century. No doubt he is here today because of (Mr Perkins), talked about further education being a the opportunities that the Open University offered his way of life, and I absolutely agree with that; I think that father, which he spoke about so movingly. is a phrase I will remember and use for a long time to To conclude, the hon. Member for Putney spoke come. The hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley) about not putting this report on the shelf. We are a talked about apprenticeships at Rolls-Royce versus Oxford. campaigning Committee, so we are not going to put this My dream is that one day, if somebody says they go to report on the shelf; we will campaign on these things Oxford, people will say, “That’s nice”, but if somebody again and again. I will die with the word “campaigner” says they are doing an apprenticeship with Rolls-Royce, emblazed on my grave. I think that the Minister has got everyone will go, “How amazing. How incredible.” I the message: we need a giant leap for adult learning, on want that to be seen as something very special to do. top of the giant step forward in the White Paper. My hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Community learning is skills, tax credits, and lifelong Aldous) talked about equality for FE and HE funding, learning for adults. I think we have a good chance of and he was absolutely right to do so. The hon. Member really transforming the landscape in our country. for York Central (Rachael Maskell) said that we should Question put and agreed to. take down the barriers to learning, which is why I am so Resolved, supportive of community learning. That point was reiterated, as I have mentioned, by the hon. Member for That this House has considered the Third Report of the Putney, who serves on my Committee. She made the Education Committee, “A plan for an adult skills and lifelong learning revolution”, HC 278. point, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on- Trent North, that community centres should be in existing buildings: we do not need brand new, shiny buildings 4.38 pm in order to do this. My hon. Friend the Member for Sitting adjourned. ORAL ANSWERS
Thursday 15 April 2021
Col. No. Col. No. INTERNATIONAL TRADE ...... 461 INTERNATIONAL TRADE—continued Arms Exports: International Humanitarian Law... 466 Trade and Investment in Wales ...... 465 Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trade Policies: Farmers...... 466 Trans-Pacific Partnership...... 468 Trade Relationship with the Middle East ...... 473 Free Trade Agreements: Professional Business Trade Sanctions on Exports from Xinjiang ...... 467 Services ...... 472 Trading Relationship with Tunisia ...... 471 Future Trade Deals: Human Rights Clauses...... 474 UK and Sweden: Trade and Business Jobs in Teesside...... 471 Relationships ...... 468 Jobs in the North-west ...... 473 UK Exports: Germany, Italy and Ireland...... 469 Jobs in Yorkshire...... 464 UK Exports to the US: Tariffs ...... 462 Steel Import Tariffs...... 461 UK Steel Producers: Level Trading Field...... 463 Topical Questions ...... 475 Unfair Trading Practices...... 464 No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,
not later than Thursday 22 April 2021
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Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 692 Thursday No. 201 15 April 2021
CONTENTS
Thursday 15 April 2021
Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 461] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for International Trade
University Students: Compensation for Lost Teaching and Rent [Col. 481] Answer to urgent question—(Michelle Donelan)
Business of the House [Col. 494] Statement—(Mr Rees-Mogg)
Domestic Abuse Bill [Col. 515] Programme motion (No. 2)—(James Morris)—agreed to Lords amendments considered
Petitions [Col. 609]
English Language Sector [Col. 612] Debate on motion for Adjournment
Westminster Hall Covronavirus, Disability and Access to Services [Col. 77WH] Adult Skills and Lifelong Learning [Col. 101WH] Select Committee Report Debates
Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]