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SENATE Official Committee Hansard COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA SENATE Official Committee Hansard RURAL AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS AND TRANSPORT LEGISLATION COMMITTEE Reference: Australian Capital Territory (Planning and Land Management) Amendment Bill 1997 MONDAY, 23 MARCH 1998 CANBERRA by authority of the Senate INTERNET The Proof and Official Hansard transcripts of Senate committee hearings, some House of Representatives committee hearings and some joint committee hearings are available on the Internet. Some House of Representatives committees and some joint committees make available only Official Hansard transcripts. The Internet address is: http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard SENATE MONDAY, 23 MARCH 1998 RURAL AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS AND TRANSPORT LEGISLATION COMMITTEE Members: Senator Crane (Chair), Senators Calvert, Forshaw, McGauran, O’Brien and Woodley Participating members: Senators Abetz, Bartlett, Boswell, Brown, Brownhill, Chapman, Bob Collins, Colston, Conroy, Cook, Eggleston, Ferris, Gibbs, Harradine, Lundy, Ian Macdonald, Sandy Macdonald, Mackay, Margetts, Murphy, Neal, O’Brien, Schacht, Sherry, Tierney and West Matter referred by the Senate for inquiry into and report on: Australian Capital Territory (Planning and Land Management) Amendment Bill 1997 WITNESSES McCANN, Mr Noel Edward, Principal Partner, McCann and Associates, Australian Institute of Valuers and Land Economists, 6 Campion Street, Deakin, Australian Capital Territory .............................................. 1 NYE, Mr Bryan, Chief Executive Officer, Australian Institute of Valuers and Land Economists, 6 Campion Street, Deakin, Australian Capital Territory ........ 1 RAISON, Mr Barrymore Victor, Australian Institute of Valuers and Land Economists, 6 Campion Street, Deakin, Australian Capital Territory .................. 1 HEDLEY, Mr Anthony Robert, Property Council of Australia, 3rd Floor, Canberra House, Marcus Clarke Street, Canberra City ......................... 10 SERVICE, Mr James Glen, President, Property Council of Australia (ACT Division), 3rd Floor, Canberra House, Marcus Clarke Street, Canberra City .......... 10 LOURANDOS, Mr Nicholas James, President, Canberra Property Owners Association, Seventh Floor, State Bank Building, 161 London Circuit, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory .............................................. 18 COOK, Mr Ross Michael, Manager Corporate Policy, Planning and Land Management, ACT Government, GPO Box 1908, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory 2601 24 GILMOUR, Mr Rodney Charles, Chief Executive, Department of Urban Services, ACT Government, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory 2601 ................ 24 HAWKINS, Mr Lincoln James, Executive Director, Planning and Land Management, ACT Government, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory 2601 ........... 24 HUMPHRIES, Mr Gary John, Deputy Chief Minister, ACT Government, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory 2601 .................................. 24 NEUTZE, Professor Graeme Max, 52 Bindaga Street, Aranda, Australian Capital Territory .................................................... 38 TROY, Professor Patrick Nicol OA, 14 Amaroo Street, Reid, Australian Capital Territory .................................................... 38 MOORE, Mr Michael, Member, Australian Capital Territory Legislative Assembly, Canberra, Australian Capital Territory 2601 .......................... 46 Monday, 23 March 1998 SENATE—Legislation RRA&T 1 Committee met at 8.47 a.m. CHAIR—On 10 March 1998 the Senate referred the Australian Capital Territory (Planning and Land Management) Amendment Bill to the Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee for consideration and report by 31 March 1998. I should add here, in terms of the subject matter before us, that I understand there have been some 12 inquiries over the last 10 or 15 years into this matter, so it has certainly been well aired publicly. Following its referral to the committee, the committee wrote to the ACT government and to individuals, companies and groups potentially interested in the reference, seeking their views. The committee secretariat also prepared an information kit on the bill, of which a number have been distributed to interested persons and bodies. The committee’s inquiry was also advertised in the Canberra Times on Saturday, 14 March 1998. In response to its advertisement and invitations, the committee has received 24 written submissions to date. Resolved: That this committee authorises the publication of the submissions received. CHAIR—If anybody has any particular aspect of a submission they would prefer not to have published, then bring it to the attention of the committee. Today we will hold discussions with a number of bodies and individuals from the ACT, and with the minister’s nominee from the ACT liaison unit of the Department of Transport and Regional Development. It should be noted that the committee has authorised the recording, broadcasting and rebroadcasting of these proceedings in accordance with the rules contained in the orders of the Senate of 23 August 1990 concerning the broadcasting of committee proceedings. Before we commence taking evidence, let me place on record that all witnesses are protected by parliamentary privilege in respect of submissions made to the committee and evidence given before it. Parliamentary privilege means special rights and immunities attached to parliament or its members that are necessary to the discharge and function of the parliament without obstruction or without fear of prosecution. Any act by any person which operates to the disadvantage of a witness on account of evidence given by him or her before the Senate or any committee of the Senate is treated as a breach of privilege. The first witnesses today represent the Australian Institute of Valuers and Land Economists. McCANN, Mr Noel Edward, Principal Partner, McCann and Associates, Australian Institute of Valuers and Land Economists, 6 Campion Street, Deakin, Australian Capital Territory NYE, Mr Bryan, Chief Executive Officer, Australian Institute of Valuers and Land Economists, 6 Campion Street, Deakin, Australian Capital Territory RAISON, Mr Barrymore Victor, Australian Institute of Valuers and Land Economists, 6 Campion Street, Deakin, Australian Capital Territory CHAIR—Welcome. We have a pretty tight schedule today because parliament starts sitting at 12.30 so for each witness the period is limited to 30 minutes. I would invite you to make an opening statement, but I would also suggest, if you can, you clean up your statements within about 15 minutes so that the committee can address questions to you. Mr Nye—We have made a written submission, and I am not going to go through that written submission. Most of the points included in our arguments are in the written submission. I would like to summarise where we are actually coming from. The ACT land management RURAL AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS AND TRANSPORT RRA&T 2 SENATE—Legislation Monday, 23 March 1998 system we have at the moment is an anathema really. It was established as a leasehold system, but just on 30 years ago it ceased to really be a leasehold system as soon as we started to do away with land rents and allowed municipal rating systems to take over. Since then we have had premium sales of lands. The tenant has the right to maintain the improvements. As I said, land rents have been abolished, and there is now automatic renewal of residential leases and administration fee. Already in the federal legislation there is a provision for the 99-year lease to be extended. It says, quite clearly ‘99 years or such longer period as is prescribed’. There are already cases of the 999-year lease or perpetual leases here in the ACT. All the universities and the churches already have them. It is almost a natural progression today to go to the 999-year leases. The chairman mentioned the many inquiries. A lot of those inquiries had nothing to do with, or their tasks were not to do with, the leasehold system, but every single one of them has come up and said the leasehold system is not particularly adequate at the current time. I think it is time. Our argument, very strongly, is for us to have the same type of system or land tenure that is available elsewhere in Australia. The Northern Territory got it in 1980. It is time the ACT residents had the same opportunity. The leasehold system maintains the renewal of the leases and the clauses allow the government to keep control of planning, and there is no change in that. Overall, the greatest disincentive at the current time to investment by business in the ACT is that land tenure system. Irrespective of what people might think about it, it does prevent people wishing to invest in the ACT. We believe that as the ACT now has self-government, the federal government should allow the ACT government itself to make the decision on the land management system in the ACT. CHAIR—Thank you. Do you wish to add anything, Mr McCann or Mr Raison? Mr Raison—I would like to comment on some of the points that have been raised against a 999-year leasehold system. These have come out of other debates and submissions, and press articles, but I think there is an answer to every point that has been raised against 999-year leases. Briefly, some of those have been as follows. First: ‘999 years is a cute way of circumventing the constitution.’ That is no worse than the automatically renewable 99 years that we have now. ‘It’ll destroy the heritage of historic buildings,’ et cetera. That is an entirely separate issue, and it is covered by heritage legislation. ‘There’s
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