SS061.mp3
David Yellin‐ Side 2, side 2 on June 2nd 1968 with Mr. Ed Gillis, with David Yellin and Bill Thomas.
Bill Thomas‐ Mr. Gilis going back to one point there when you got your job through Charlie Saul where there a number of people that worked for t he city that got their jobs that way?
Ed Gillis‐ No, here is why I got that that way. I didn’t know anybody see personally. I said I will give him $2 if you will get me a job. He said Gillis, I know a foremen over there that wants a southern man to work for him. He said, he can’t keep none of these, he said these youngsters they don’t stay on the job long so he is always short of hand. I said tell him I am just the man, I will be there everyday. And he came out there and talked with him and put me to work that morning and I have been there even since, Mr. Pope.
Bill Thomas‐ Did Mr. Saul get jobs for quite a number of people do you remember or what?
Ed Gillis‐ No, not particularly.
David Yellin‐ This wasn’t a regular thing , this was just a perk.
Ed Gillis‐ He was just helping somebody out.
David Yellin‐ That’s right and you were a good sport you said two dollars you gave it to him. But I go a lot of people on there I have about 15 people on there didn’t charge nothing. Of course the foremen knew me and they believed what I said. I was a good worker and I told him they was a good worker, I got a lot of them on there. I got a lot of different fellows on there.
David Yellin‐ Ok now you stared to work can you go through your career in Memphis.
Ed Gillis‐ Then after we started on the rock crushing gang, it was curb and gutter out there on the streets. Well we had the tree trunks hauled to the rock crusher, I had a 12 pound boulder and broke that stuff right up with three trucks (muffled). In the meantime, in the winter time when it was bad, we haul all that tar and brick out of the crematory yard down there, up there and they crush that up and they make a kind of a coal mix to put in the alleys see. It is too cold to bad to work out in the weather we be out on the rock crusher. We did that until we got hot sand then once we got hot we go back on hauling our concrete breaking that concrete. I broke it daily, every day.
David Yellin‐ Now you said that you got on blue cross and you got on the pension fund.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes sir. David Yellin‐ The other thing, red cross.
Ed Gillis‐ Well that was just a donation.
David Yellin‐ Then you kept it up however and you have been on it ever since. You think Bill we should go right to the Memphis, to last February?
Bill Thomas‐ I guess so, unless where were you living here at that time Mr. Gillis?
Ed Gillis‐ Well I live right down there on Texas, the first two story house on Texas, I just remembering now, I lived there a while.
Bill Thomas‐ You lived in the same neighborhood all the time.
Ed Gillis‐ All the time, I moved around there on Horrace back when my store, I lived there about 6 years. I moved to Peepstreet alley I lived there for 5 years.
Bill Thomas‐ Peepstreet Alley.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah anyhow, they call it Peachstreet Alley, then I live down there 3 or 4 years and I have been here ever since September.
David Yellin‐ Of this year?
Ed Gillis‐ Of last year.
David Yellin‐ What do you pay rent?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ Can you tell us how much you pay?
Ed Gillis‐ $38.50 a month is what I am supposed to pay.
David Yellin‐ How about utilities, do you have to pay all that?
Ed Gillis‐ I have to pay all that utility bill and everything.
David Yellin‐ You said that is what you are supposed to pay what does that mean you pay it or you don’t?
Ed Gillis‐ Well I haven’t paid this last one.
Bill Thomas‐ Who owns the house do you know?
Ed Gillis‐ Mrs. Abe Alpine I think you call him.
David Yellin‐ Is he the owner or the agent?
Ed Gillis‐ She is the owner. David Yellin‐ Oh Mrs.
Ed Gillis‐ She owns product all over town.
David Yellin‐ Does she own the rest of the houses here?
Ed Gillis‐ She owns this house, and that house, and I think another one (muffled).
David Yellin‐ Yeah Alpine.
Ed Gillis‐ She owns, probably got all around here.
David Yellin‐ Who collects the rent for her?
Ed Gillis‐ Well I mail mine to her, her daughter and son was collecting but I mail mine in and sometimes she comes out and collects.
David Yellin‐ Yeah where does she live.
Ed Gillis‐ Way out somewhere but I can’t think of the name of the street. She comes out here sometimes to collect.
David Yellin‐ Well now, if we can kind of jump and we may come back a little later to the beginning of the strike. You were in that other strike way back, 66’ years when they had the injunction against the union, do you remember that one?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes, yes sir I remember that.
David Yellin‐ How did that start, why did that start, were you a member of the union then, or was there a union?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah I was a member then.
David Yellin‐ When was the union started here do you remember?
Ed Gillis‐ No it had been on, let me, I don’t want to tell a lie. It had been on 3 or 4 years, before I ever joined see. I joined just awhile before they got the injunction now that being about 7 or 8 months or longer.
David Yellin‐ Now what injunction that was in 66’?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah.
David Yellin‐ Or not one.
Ed Gillis‐ In 66’
David Yellin‐ 66’. Wasn’t it 66?
Ed Gillis‐ Jared Jengem was in there (muffled) I think they got the injunction.
Bill Thomas‐ So you joined the union in 1966? Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ And do you remember about it why did you join?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah I remember clearly why I joined.
David Yellin‐ Please tell us.
Ed Gillis‐ Because we just wasn’t getting justice.
David Yellin‐ What do you mean by that.
Ed Gillis‐ Well here is the thing, it’s like this right here. Truck drivers get out there they are white, they want to dictate they want to boast but foremen is supposed to give orders and then they get mad and cuss you out.
David Yellin‐ The white drivers.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah, say things to you, then you say things back to him and then they come out of the truck and they want to fight. Then they will keep you out later hours, over time but you don’t get no pay for it. They tell you we will give you some time off.
David Yellin‐ Now who tells you that, the foremen?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah the superintendent. Well if they let you off well you have to be (muffle) well by that time you just well have worked the whole day, they haven’t given you nothing.
David Yellin‐ They don’t take you back to the yard.
Ed Gillis‐ No.
Bill Thomas‐ They just let you off.
Ed Gillis‐ I am off at 2:00, well they won’t bring you back to the yard so you can get in their get your clothes, get your bag, you haven’t done nothing.
Bill Thomas‐ How were you expected to get back just walk back?
Ed Gillis‐ Catch a bus or come on in see.
David Yellin‐ Then they just pay you just for that time you worked.
Ed Gillis‐ You get paid for that day but that amounts for that same day, they give you off the next day. Well it got where you weren’t getting that. You weren’t getting that. Then foremen get contrary, if he don’t like it the truck don’t like it the truck driver over there and they get you out again.
David Yellin‐ Who were the foremen were there any negro foremen. Ed Gillis‐ No they are all white foremen.
David Yellin‐ all white foremen.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes we got one colored guy out there now he is supposed to be a foremen but he is more a truck driver. They just done that for a sham after that union got in there.
David Yellin‐ This is the latest thing.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ but now we are back in 66’?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes. But that is the way those things run.
David Yellin‐ How long were you in the sanitation department do you remember?
Ed Gillis‐ I was in sanitation but I was asphalt all the way but we just worked with sanitation. Some Christmas when they get behind with the garbage until they go them trucks, as soon as they got them little scooters and a tub cart to push well I didn’t care no more about it see.
David Yellin‐ Now when was this?
=Well that was a (muffled).
David Yellin‐ 64’?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ After Judge Ingram was elected?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes. Him and that was when we got locked up form carrying garbage on Christmas. (Muffled) he would take the tails off of a colored man’s hair, and he did that. He got them blue scooters to put the tubs in and push them, roll them then you got another scooter with a tractor on it where you can put the garbage on.
David Yellin‐ Us that when you went to the sanitation or where you there before?
Ed Gillis‐ I was there way before that that just happened when Judge Ingram got to be elected all that happened.
David Yellin‐ But what I am trying to get, you were in the asphalt crew for a good many years.
Ed Gillis‐ I was in the asphalt from 49’ up until now. I have always been a member of the asphalt crew ever since I have been there. Well the asphalt crew and the rock crusher was all the same. As they done away with the rock crusher, I went to working in the asphalt. They switched me over to another foremen handling asphalt. See they didn’t crush anymore concrete they buy their gravel. David Yellin‐ I see.
Bill Thomas‐ You were never in the sanitation department.
Ed Gillis‐ No never was. I got hired at the asphalt plant right when I got hired.
David Yellin‐ And then through all of this you were in asphalt.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes and I have been there 19 years this year I think and I haven’t been late a minute ever since I have been there and that was I told him in the office (muffled).
David Yellin‐ Yeah well we will get to that in a minute. Now the asphalt crew and the sanitation they are all now in the same union and they go to make up the 1300.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes the asphalt and the sewer and the pumping station and the shop crew and some of the people out to the (muffled), they in the union.
David Yellin‐ This is all one union that they call it…
Ed Gillis‐ All one union.
David Yellin‐ So when the sanitation strike came out you were involved with it.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes sir.
David Yellin‐ But you never were worked on the garbage detail.
Ed Gillis‐ No more than a week or two during Christmas when they were behind.
David Yellin‐ yes.
Ed Gillis‐ Before they got them tubs and them scooters.
David Yellin‐ Now then when did you or let’s go back a little bit, February 1st when those two men were crushed to death, did you know who they were?
Ed Gillis‐ No I didn’t know who they were but I was working, I didn’t get a call. One woman she was hard to press, she had 5 children, they only paid her $500.
Bill Thomas‐ You don’t know who that is?
Ed Gillis‐ No but I could find out. The other woman she waited for a suit, but the other woman just said she was hard pressed had her own judge and has had to take it.
Bill Thomas‐ And she had 5 children?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ Then the other woman started a suit and so far you don’t know anything that has happened. Id they give her any money for the burial at least or? Ed Gillis‐ Well I wouldn’t know, but I can tell you who could tell you, T.O. Jones.
David Yellin‐ Yes we have spoken to T.O. Jones and we will go back to him. If you could find out anybody that knows these people we would love to talk to the women, we want to find out what they got all through the years.
Ed Gillis‐ I will try to find out.
David Yellin‐ If you can that would be fine.
Bill Thomas‐ T.O. Jones handled or was in on this though was he?
Ed Gillis‐ He is over all of us.
Bill Thomas‐ He helped with the settlement, he helped work this out?
Ed Gillis‐ I don’t think because he wouldn’t have take 500.
David Yellin‐ Oh I see she did it on her own.
Ed Gillis‐ Well you know how a lot of folks, I will tell you how that goes. When things like that happen a lot colored folks get around and a lot of them will be dumb, and they say well you better take that because you could get nothing. See a lot of things like that happened.
David Yellin‐ Of course they have a whole history of getting nothing.
Ed Gillis‐ That’s right.
David Yellin‐ So they better take what they can get.
Ed Gillis‐ That’s what a lot of folks are telling you.
David Yellin‐ Ok now you remember the 66’ strike, what was that about?
Ed Gillis‐ Well same thing, injustice, like I was telling you, late hours and long hours and see.
Bill Thomas‐ How many hours a day were you working then?
Ed Gillis‐ We were supposed to be working 8 hours I assure you about that. Working them 8 hours you had to working the rain, work in the sleet. Well now, if you didn’t, if the truck guy didn’t like what he see then you have to go. They said you sassed him. Now sometimes he would be wrong.
Bill Thomas‐ These were all white truck drivers?
Ed Gillis‐ Now truck drivers are all white, there was very few truck drivers that were colored then, them that was over there was driving the containers, the tar tanks. Three or four, four or five drove them tar tanks. I put it to you like this, white fellows them truck drivers wanted to get in the cab with him and I am dumping as[halt. See he ain’t paying attention to what I am telling him, he would be able to get in the conversation and I pour out too much asphalt. I holler, I be hollering and he still ain’t paying no attention, I holler at him a lot and he get made and does a lot of talk you see? With me behind him, we would have a truckload of asphalt and did have much water in that (muffled) well I had shovel all that stuff up, that stuff 497 degrees hot in the summer time.
Bill Thomas‐ Oh you would have to shovel it up.
Ed Gillis‐ I would have to shovel it back up on the truck.
David Yellin‐ If he would close the window and wouldn’t listen to you.
Ed Gillis‐ He would let that bed down and he would be talking to that other driver and he wouldn’t even be listening, looking at a glance and he let that bed down. Then he got mad and invited me behind him and I invited him behind me. Then he come out and want to fight and that is where we are fixing to mix it up.
David Yellin‐ If you would go back to the yard they would take his word.
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah they would take his word if we went back to the yard, they would have taken his word. I whirled on him and he whirled around back well I started back to the asphalt and he followed behind me I was crushing him I was on him. Finally, he got too close and he broke and run and that time I got to my (muffled) H said get back in this truck I will ride you all over these streets.
David Yellin‐ When did this happen?
Ed Gillis‐ 3 years ago, I told him I said get in that truck, I sad, I will ride you all over these streets, you done poured out all that asphalt, I got to shovel it. You invited me behind you, if you gonna invite me behind you and I invite you behind me, you ain’t even are going to take it. Tell me what you going to do to me, I will whip you all over here, white people see me riding you all over town. So when I got the asphalt up I went there and told the foremen. He said, well what can you do, you tell him what you said and done and you tell him what he said and done. Well he (muffled) he didn’t say anything to me about because the foremen knew he was in the wrong.
David Yellin‐ Now so you joined the union.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ Right and Mr. Jones, T.O. Jones was the head of the union, he was.
Yes.
David Yellin‐ On the 66’ thing was there a strike?
Ed Gillis‐ No, there was fixin to strike and they got the injunction out and called it off. See we didn’t quit working.. Bill Thomas‐ Were you ready to quit working?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah we was ready to quit.
David Yellin‐ How many were in the union do you remember?
Ed Gillis‐ No I don’t there was a lot more in there now than there was then because a lot of them were scared to join, and a lot of them wouldn’t join and there was a lot didn’t join until after the strike was over.
Bill Thomas‐ Why were they scared to join?
Ed Gillis‐ Well here’s the thing about it they thought that the white man (muffled) about him like that but he ain’t. That’s why. They think the white man is crazy but they ain’t.
David Yellin‐ They want tot take care of them.
Ed Gillis‐ If anything happened then they were ready to let you go don’t you see. Now my folks, I (muffled). There was a fellow out there they call Sam Hicks. He played with him all the time, I told him I said Mr. Neil is going to fool you because every thing you say you are right with him whether it is right or wrong you will holler yes sir, Mr. Neil is going to fool you. I said now I know him, I just don’t know him but I know the (muffled) Mr. Neil doesn’t mean you what you think he mean, I said I am telling you to your face.
David Yellin‐ Who is Mr. Neil?
Ed Gillis‐ That is the foremen.
David Yellin‐ Oh, not Mr. Hicks.
Bill Thomas‐ He was the worker right?
Ed Gillis‐ Hicks was working with me, I call him little brother, he call me big brother, well now a lot of folks didn’t know thought we were brothers a lot of them couldn’t tell us apart hardly. And so Hicks had a stroke, on one arm and so they told him give him something light to do. Well the foremen he come in and complain. He couldn’t work him he wasn’t getting enough work down he had to have somebody else in his place. They put him on the dump night watching. Now here come little George, of course George was wrong in away but he done go through with him, he done got by> he got off the truck on the railroad. Where he slowed up, the truck slowed up on the track do the other trucks could get in the gate. But George went to get off the truck and just as went to get off the truck pulled up and snapped and threw him off on the railroad. And it fractured that arm. Well he come back the next day and work and quit. Finally he went to the hospital, they (muffled). He came back and he went to work and it got to hurting again, he went back next week and his arm was fractured.
David Yellin‐ Now what hospital was that? Ed Gillis‐ He went to John Gaston, he might have went to Maclemmore Clinic, I don’t know what hospital he went to but any how they put his arm in a cast it was fractured. So he told the foremen and superintendant that he was picking up a big piece of concrete and it probably broke out, (Muffled). Then we come put that concrete out and put asphalt in it. He said that slab of concrete was too heavy and it fell on his arm on the truck and mashed it. Well now (muffled), I got him a job with the city. John slipped it to them that he didn’t hurt his arm with no concrete on the truck, said he getting off the truck and he fell, well that got him fired.
Bill Thomas‐ Why did that get him fired?
Ed Gillis‐ Well actually he had told a lie but it wasn’t nobody’s business, see (muffled) Now John he ain’t working out there. But John caused him losing the job don’t you see.
Bill Thomas‐ So, the strike never came off in 66’.
Ed Gillis‐ No see we didn’t stop working.
David Yellin‐ Mr. Gillis did you pay dues during this time or were people paying dues, was it hard to pay dues, what was the situation?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah we were paying dues, we were paying two dollars or four dollars a month.
Bill Thomas‐ $4 a month, that is the same thing it is now?
David Yellin‐ Did people pay?
Ed Gillis‐ I believe some of them paid. These now would scared, they have to pay $25 to get in.
David Yellin‐ $25.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes, (muffled), he came back worked a month and 7 days after. Now he griping because he got to pay the $25.
David Yellin‐ What benefits did the union give you if you are paying your dues.
Ed Gillis‐ You mean when we go?
David Yellin‐ Yeah or when you were a member of the union, did you get any benefits from the union, were you happy you joined it?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah I was happy sure, because I knew times were going to be better. Now they can’t run you off. They would tell any kind of lie and run you off before. Foremen get mad at you.
Bill Thomas‐ But now you can go to the union. Ed Gillis‐ Yeah I can go to the union and they will protect me, see we have a chief steward out there, he speaks for us you see.
David Yellin‐ Now this is since when?
Ed Gillis‐ Since the strike is over.
David Yellin‐ Since this settlement.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ But it wasn’t since 66’?
Ed Gillis‐ No.
David Yellin‐ This is what the strike did then?
Ed Gillis‐ That is what the strike did at first now.
David Yellin‐ OK let’s get to the strike if we could.
Ed Gillis‐ Now her is what I want to tell you. Since the strike there is a fellow that works out there. He was sick, about 3 weeks ago, he was sick and went to the doctor. Doctor told him give a paper to him to show to put him on light work, don’t work him on nothing heavy.
Well he carried it into the office, Mr. Johnson, the superintendant told him that we ain’t got nothing light out here, you take that and go to Mr. Rice. (muffled). He came in and told me, I said don’t you go to Mr. Rice. I said you go through the union, see your chief steward and let him check with Jones. Well now he went off like he told him that day. Well now he come back the next morning, I had told Chief Steward what they had told him. He called T.O. Jones that night and the next morning T.O. Jones was out there. Well now when he comes by he calls him in the office and had had Mr. Champa in there.
David Yellin‐ Champa.
Ed Gillis‐ They (muffled). Jones and Steward went on up there, when they went up there it was a different story they put him back to work and made them pay him for the day they sent him home. He come to work but they sent him home and he is working now. See how much good the union do.
David Yellin‐ yeah wonderful, now when did you first hear about the strike? At the union hall or when can you remember? Now this strike here the one that started February 12th.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah I heard it at the union hall we all agreed on it. Bill Thomas‐ Can we go back a little farther on the 30th, January 30th I think it was or maybe the 31st, but did you know about the 22 men who didn’t get paid, they were sent home on the rainy day, the sewer workers?
Ed Gillis‐ No because that is a different office, they office isn’t over there where our office is. See they are at high street.
Bill Thomas‐ You yourself you worked whether it rains or not did you.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah we work in the rain and we get out of the rain and they wanted us to work in the rain we had the idea that was bad if you got out you have to work even if it is pouring rain, up until this union was set. And the foremen just as bad, the foremen will tell you had to go out there. Why was it (muffled) get out of the rain and when it like to go back to work….Somebody lying. I don’t know, you the foremen, I don’t know where you are lying or he is one of you is lying. I said he done told us at the picnic, he done told us right out here.
Bill Thomas‐ At the picnic?
David Yellin‐ What picnic?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah, well, we have a flower club over there.
Bill Thomas‐ A flower club?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah. Every time somebody dies and they have a member working we give them a design. Like if you were working there and your wife died we give you a design.
David Yellin‐ A flower design?
Ed Gillis‐ A flower design.
Bill Thomas‐ IS this what is this for?
Ed Gillis‐ For us members if we lose a member in our family we get a design.
Bill Thomas‐ Yes but where does the design of is this for the cemetery.
Ed Gillis‐ It goes up to the cemetery. Go up to the funeral. Well now I got out of it but when my wife brother died I had a design for him, I wasn’t out of the club but I got out of it last year. It is just made up by the colored people. We had so much money in the church until we do a picnic every year, well we did a picnic last year and did a picnic about 3 years ago. Mr. (muffled) was out there for the picnic 4th of July last year and he made the same expression, he didn’t mean to work in the rain, when it is raining hard get out of the rain when it is raining hard get out of the rain, when it slack up get back out to work. It rains hard get out the rain.
David Yellin‐ Where do you go. Ed Gillis‐ Well we had booths on the truck, we got to have booths on the truck. Well that is about as wide as from where you are at to the door place. It sits up on the front of the truck.
David Yellin‐ About 4 feet.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah and we can get up under there. But they got to place where they wanted us out of there he wanted us out of there we had to get out of there if it rained. Superintendant and the route man over at the plant they at the bottom of the wall don’t you see. Why that was is this them foremens and truck drivers on straight time. It ain’t so bad when Lobe was in there at first we didn’t work half the time, if it be cloudy, raining, they send us home.
David Yellin‐ The first time that started when mayor Lobe was then commissioner?
Ed Gillis‐ OH yeah we didn’t work hardly any because he sent us home.
David Yellin‐ Did he start that ?
Ed Gillis‐ Going home? Yeah he started it.
David Yellin‐ Nobody before did it?
Ed Gillis‐ No not before that.
Bill Thomas‐ They didn’t pay you for this time at all?
Ed Gillis‐ No, I will explain that to you. Now here is the way that goes, see he send us home well now the truck drivers and the foremens they was on the straight time. They get, the truck drivers get 10 hours a day and 11 hours the next day. We go home 3 hours a day, now one 12 day payday there I went home 9 days 3 hours each day. The truck drivers and the foremen get straight pay everyday.
David Yellin‐ In other words when you came and it rained they sent you home but you only got credit for 3 hours.
Bill Thomas‐ And how much were you getting then do you remember?
Ed Gillis‐ Well along that time I was think I was $7.80 a day at that time.
David Yellin‐ On 3 hours?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes sir.
David Yellin‐ Or?
Ed Gillis‐ On the day.
David Yellin‐ You weren’t getting by the hour.
Bill Thomas‐ So you were only getting about… David Yellin‐ 9 hour day was that or an 8 hour?
Ed Gillis‐ 8 hour.
David Yellin‐ 8 hour, so if they send you home in 3 hours you only got 3/8ths of the 7 dollars.
Ed Gillis‐ That’s right.
Bill Thomas‐ You were only getting about $3 on one of these short days.
Ed Gillis‐ That’s right
David Yellin‐ This started when..
Ed Gillis‐ Lobe was in there.
David Yellin‐ Nobody before then did it.
Ed Gillis‐ Nobody did it.
David Yellin‐ What happened before then when it rained?
Ed Gillis‐ Well now here is where that thing happened before when it rained. We stayed out on the job. Well we didn’t have no boosters on the truck but here is what we would do, we would get up under the truck see have the foremen raise th4e bed up and we would get up under the truck. We would get up under the truck and squat down under the truck.
David Yellin‐ Stayed there until it rained what if it rained all day what did you do?
Ed Gillis‐ We stayed there until it quit raining and then we load up and come in.
David Yellin‐ Well suppose it rains all day?
Ed Gillis‐ Rain all day we would just come in, maybe some of them want to come in some of them didn’t but if they all want to come in we did, very seldom we would come in.
David Yellin‐ But you got paid for the whole day?
Ed Gillis‐ We got paid for the whole day.
David Yellin‐ Whether you worked or not, under the truck, and if you came in early enough they would decide it is going to rain anyways, but you got paid for the whole day?
Ed Gillis‐ No we didn’t get paid for the whole day we got paid for the hours made. If we come in at 2:00 we got paid from 7:30‐3:00.
David Yellin‐ I see, now whose decision was it to come in the truck driver? Ed Gillis‐ Well it would be the hands a lot of times see. And the foremens a lot of time they going to come in because they are getting straight time anyhow.
David Yellin‐ It doesn’t make any difference.
Ed Gillis‐ No it didn’t make them no difference they didn’t care whether we lived or died.
David Yellin‐ Were the foremen, how do they have transportation with a truck or with their own cars?
Ed Gillis‐ They have their own cars see.
David Yellin‐ So it was up to each truck to decide and if you all said let’s sit here all day you would.
Ed Gillis‐ And sometimes foremens going to bring us in anyhow because foremens mostly (muffled) because he is going home to go hunting or fishing.
Bill Thomas‐ And he was going to get paid anyway.
Ed Gillis‐ He was going to get paid and we wasn’t see that is how it worked.
David Yellin‐ And he would order you in.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah because they wanted it to rain because they would get paid anyhow.
Bill Thomas‐ And you would be hollering don’t rain.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah I tell be over go away rain, god don’t let it rain. Well they be praying for it to rain.
David Yellin‐ Just so we get it real clear, when it would rain it would be up to the foremen and you men depending on who is was when you would go in?
Ed Gillis‐ Mostly the foremen.
David Yellin‐ Right and when you would go in that was when your time was cut and you could get paid for that part of the day?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes….I tell you what happened. After Lobe was in there, it would rain, he send a man back off well it may be 11:30 when we completed the holes. Well when we got in, we got three hours.
David Yellin‐ No matter how long you worked.
Ed Gillis‐ That’s right it would be 11:00 when we got through out there, but then we got in we did get 3 hours.
David Yellin‐ When did you start 7:30? Ed Gillis‐ 7.
David Yellin‐ Alright now suppose you came at 7:30 and it was raining?
Ed Gillis‐ Well we went out..
David Yellin‐ Suppose you didn’t go out?
Ed Gillis‐ This time he didn’t send us out. Well if it rained most of the time, just cloudy or look like it would rain he would tell them send them home and give them 3 hours.
David Yellin‐ And your would get three hours anyway. But before then what I am trying to get is before then when Williams was commissioner?
Ed Gillis‐ We worked about as much as we want, we would very seldom come in we would be under those trucks.
David Yellin‐ No when you came in before Lobe.
Ed Gillis‐ That was before Lobe, we didn’t com in much until Lobe first got in there that’s when we first started. Everybody had to get under the wedge.
David Yellin‐ I am still, this is before Lobe was in this was back in 1953.
Ed Gillis‐ Well we didn’t come in very much.
Bill Thomas‐ I think what he is saying is that you all stayed out, in the rain even most of the time.
David Yellin‐ When it rained at 7:30 before Lobe you would go out?
Ed Gillis‐ We would go out.
Bill Thomas‐ They would go out anyway.
Ed Gillis‐ We had went out there and cut a hole this deep, and be full of water and we sweep the water out and put in asphalt when it quit raining, we stretch the (muffled).
David Yellin‐ Do you remember when it first happened when Lobe was in there did he just tell the foremen to do it?
Ed Gillis‐ He would call up out there and tell him.
David Yellin‐ There was never anything that they call a directive from Lobe that said from now on if it would rain when you would come in you would get 3 hours.
Ed Gillis‐ That is what he said, he made a talk.
David Yellin‐ He made a talk once. Ed Gillis‐ He come out there on that platform and made a talk, we will do t his when it rain we will give you 3 hours and you will go home.
Bill Thomas‐ How did the men feel about this?
Ed Gillis‐ Well plenty of them didn’t like it but they couldn’t help themselves. They didn’t like but they couldn’t help themselves because we wasn’t getting no where. A lot of times I just got too ashamed to come home wouldn’t come home till night because they sent us home so regular. I tell you I come home 9 days out of 12 days payday 3 hours a day.
David Yellin‐ You didn’t have a union then?
Ed Gillis‐ No, we didn’t have no union.
David Yellin‐ Was there any thought of a union then?
Ed Gillis‐ No they wasn’t thinking of no union right then.
Bill Thomas‐ Did the men protest when Ingram..
David Yellin‐ When Lobe was out as commissioner of sanitation then Farris came in and he kept it up.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes, he kept it up the same way.
David Yellin‐ Then when Farris got out then assistant came in.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah he done a little better he(muffled). Then he tell us when he come out on the picnic he tell us, don’t work in the rain.
David Yellin‐ But you would get paid.
Ed Gillis‐ No, yeah if we stayed out we would get paid, but now if we come in we didn’t get paid.
David Yellin‐ Then when Lobe became mayor again.
Ed Gillis‐ Well we would see him come out there any more then, he didn’t have no time.
Bill Thomas‐ Not much time there.
Ed Gillis‐ All that old dog would say, I will not, I will not, I will no, I want you to get out there and pick up that garbage, I will not.
David Yellin‐ Alright, okay now. The strike, right. When you heard about this rain bit with these were workers, obviously that happened on the 30th and on the 31st they were sent home. This seems to be the first time that has happened during he new mayor? Ed Gillis‐ Well that is him alright not but I hadn’t heard about it, but that is him.
Bill Thomas‐ How did you hear about it?
Ed Gillis‐ I hadn’t heard about it until just then but that is Lobe’s word.
David Yellin‐ But when did you hear about the idea that there might be a strike? Do you remember February 11th did you go to a union meeting something like..
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah all of us.
David Yellin‐ There were meetings before then do you remember Mr. Gillis?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah I was meeting before then.
David Yellin‐ Did you got o meetings?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah we got meetings sure, we met regularly all the year, all the year.
David Yellin‐ Well I mean now this is the new year, just this year, January when the new administration came in.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah I went to meeting then.
David Yellin‐ What was said there, do you remember did they talk about they knew Lobe was coming in?
Ed Gillis‐ All those guys were going to stop work until we got better satisfaction.
Bill Thomas‐ Now when was this?
Ed Gillis‐ The night before we come out on strike.
Bill Thomas‐ This was the first time that you yourself knew that a strike was being talked about?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah because we always talk about it on the job, we all talk about it.
David Yellin‐ that night, that Sunday night, you remember that Sunday night were you there?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yes.
David Yellin‐ Do you remember when you went what time you went?
Ed Gillis‐ No I don’t know about 6:00 when I got there.
David Yellin‐ It was early?
Bill Thomas‐ If you could just tell us what happened in that meeting that night?
David Yellin‐ Could you? Ed Gillis‐ I will tell you what happened now. They all wanted to blame T.O. Jones for it but it was T.O. Jones, if all us labor got together we were going to quit work until we got a raise and got a better percentage see. And could get justice on the job for the way they were treating us.
David Yellin‐ Did you tell that at the meeting that night?
Ed Gillis‐ At the meeting, yeah, I believe sure.
David Yellin‐ About 6:00 you got together and T.O. Jones called it to order.
Ed Gillis‐ We told him he didn’t set no type on the strike or nothing we did that ourselves, the laborers.
Bill Thomas‐ How many were there?
Ed Gillis‐ Man the house was packed.
Bill Thomas‐ I had heard 700?
Ed Gillis‐ Well I don’t know but that hall was packed.
David Yellin‐ Where was it?
Ed Gillis‐ It was up there on 2nd street by the saddle shop[?
David Yellin‐ Where is that is that the Firestone, no that is not the…
Bill Thomas‐ That is the union hall up there, what is the name of it Gillis? The union hall.
David Yellin‐ So that night the best to your memory they, everybody got up and said this is what we want and T.O. Jones wrote down.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes we told him what we want.
David Yellin‐ And where was he going to go with it, do you remember what was he going to do?
Ed Gillis‐ Well he had to represent us.
David Yellin‐ Well where was he going to go?
Ed Gillis‐ Well I didn’t ask him and I didn’t hear him say but we all did that ourselves.
David Yellin‐ How long did you stay there?
Ed Gillis‐ Until the meeting was adjourned.
David Yellin‐ When was that? Ed Gillis‐ That was Sunday night.
David Yellin‐ At what time?
Ed Gillis‐ Next morning I didn’t in the morning I didn’t show up to the (muffled).
David Yellin‐ What time was that Sunday night do you remember?
Ed Gillis‐ Well no it was about 10:00 when I left and went home.
David Yellin‐ Was T.O. Jones there when you left?
Ed Gillis‐ Sure he was there.
David Yellin‐ Was he there the whole time?
Ed Gillis‐ Sure he was there the whole time.
David Yellin‐ Now he didn’t go to another meeting?
Ed Gillis‐ Now if he did I don’t know, I am just telling you what I know. See I don’t want to lie.
David Yellin‐ At this meeting did T.O. Jones tell you he was going to another meeting?
Ed Gillis‐ If he did I didn’t pay no attention, I am not going to tell a lie.
Bill Thomas‐ How did you hear about his Sunday night meeting?
Ed Gillis‐ All of us had gotten together we had been meeting (muffled) for the first year we are going to have a better situation on the job.
Bill Thomas‐ This is before the new people came in..
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah oh yeah we had done..
David Yellin‐ Did you have a regular meeting with your steward?
Ed Gillis‐ Steward the steward my steward worked right there with us.
David Yellin‐ So you were talking about it all the time?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ Did the steward ever tell you he went to another meeting?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yes he did have steward meetings and we wouldn’t be a them. They had meetings…
David Yellin‐ That same Sunday night did you know that he went to another meeting or you never heard? Ed Gillis‐ No I didn’t hear him and I say and I did not see.
David Yellin‐ Now when you got into the strike you didn’t go back the next morning?
Ed Gillis‐ No, that Sunday night and I didn’t go back no more until I went to pick up that piece of check,. When I went to pick up that piece of check I didn’t go back no more until the strike was over.
Bill Thomas‐ Mr. Gillis on that night on Sunday night, was there some kind of a vote taken among the workers that they would go out the next morning or what?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah we were aware we voted on it.
Bill Thomas‐ Everybody agreed?
Ed Gillis‐ Everybody agreed.
Bill Thomas‐ And was there some plan to tell everybody else who wasn’t there?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. Everybody could notify one another.
Bill Thomas‐ And what did you all want at that time.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah we wanted $2 an hour and all like that that’s what we wanted see.
David Yellin‐ Was that the first time that the $2 or something came up or had it come up before?
Ed Gillis‐ We had been talking that all along. We wasn’t getting enough for our labor. If the white man get $3 and $4 a day to sit up on that row and row asphalt and he works at least 40 minutes a day that is the most he works they could give us a raise, don’t you think so?
Bill Thomas‐ Yeah.
David Yellin‐ Yeah.
Ed Gillis‐ All that money he was paying the extra police and them other men he could have given us a raise on. He could have did that he was just stubborn low down and contraire. Let the garbage pile up on one of these buildings, doesn’t make me no difference.
David Yellin‐ Now did you go to any of the marches?
Ed Gillis‐ I marched in near about every march yes sir.
David Yellin‐ Every day?
Ed Gillis‐ Some days, I missed about 2 days a week where I would get out and work a little bit. David Yellin‐ Did you go to the meetings at night?
+Oh sure I went to the meetings.
David Yellin‐ Where did you work?
Ed Gillis‐ I worked with Henry (muffled) down here contractor, pouring concrete, pouring sidewalks. I worked about 2 days a week for about 3 weeks, se I worked two days a week.
David Yellin‐ Were you at that council meeting on February 23rd when they marched from city hall?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah.
David Yellin‐ And that macing?
Ed Gillis‐ Going to city hall, sure, sure.
David Yellin‐ Where you in that march?
Ed Gillis‐ I was in but I didn’t feel like putting my eyes out and there was a scab all the way around my head here and all through my hair and it looks exactly (muffled) because about 15 or 20 polices with that mace just gassing us and pushing us over to the wall and just gassing us and running in front of the (muffled). There was nobody cursing, nobody fighting. Just walking down the street, they have done given them orders and they could march from the hall to Cleveland temple if they keep on the west side of the white line. Well now let me show you how that work. They done all that till we got away from city hall and Lobe had told them what to do. Got away from city hall and then the police got it this way and walked arm and arm towards the colored and blocked, stand against the wall and push us. We wouldn’t push them we were stand there and they were singing I am playing by the waterside, like a tree planted by the roof. And after we wouldn’t fight they started not allowing us by. Then they would get down there and then they would run back across from the white line across to start a fight, wouldn’t nobody attempt to fight. Then…
Bill Thomas‐ They crossed the white line on your side?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes and blocked the white line clean over to the west side of the street.
David Yellin‐ So what did you do, you stopped?
Ed Gillis‐ Stopped and stand there look at them and sing until they move and let us by. It didn’t start couldn’t get nothing that a way then the police…
David Yellin‐ Was this the back part of the line that t hey did this? Not in the front?
Ed Gillis‐ The front part. The front part of the line.
David Yellin‐ In front of the ones who were leading it? Ed Gillis‐ Yes sir that is the where they were at.
Bill Thomas‐ Where were you in the line?
(Tape Break)
Ed Gillis‐ Reverend Jackson, and reverend Starks, right there, Mr. Blackburn, reverend Blackburn and this here religious man (muffled).
David Yellin‐ Fanion, Jerry Fanion?
Ed Gillis‐ yeah, Mr. Jerry Worth and he was here with this fellow relation man I can’t think of his name he is red‐headed, Boston something. Anyhow he was trying to show the police his badge, and they just kept shooting that gas in his face, just shot it all in his face. I can’t think of his name right now.
David Yellin‐ Jacque the human relations?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah that is the man I am talking about.
David Yellin‐ You mean the civil rights guy.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah they just shot that, and he was trying to show them his badge and them boys just kept shooting that stuff all in his eyes and he was trying to tell him who he was.
David Yellin‐ John Spence, the guy over Jacque Willford.
Bill Thomas‐ Yeah, did you see the car incident, you know there is some talk about rocking a police car.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah he run that car right up against me twice.
Bill Thomas‐ Oh he did?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah. The front fender was just rubbing my side.
Bill Thomas‐ You were on the outside of the line?
Ed Gillis‐ I was next to the white line.
David Yellin‐ You were on the west side of the white line?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ And he ran it over the white line.
Ed Gillis‐ Kind of over the white line.
David Yellin‐ What did you say when he did this? Ed Gillis‐ I didn’t say nothing and finally it bumped up against me and I still didn’t say nothing, he look around at me and roll his eyes and I still didn’t say nothing I just backed up some ways from the car.
David Yellin‐ Then what happened.
Ed Gillis‐ Then I noticed a thing that was all around the car rocking the car. Well the car had got on a woman or something they did that because he hit the woman with a car.
Bill Thomas‐ Now did you see that woman?
David Yellin‐ was she behind you?
Ed Gillis‐ I was behind here but see I got back after he come and run the car over the line I started backing up and getting towards the curb you see. Well when I knew anything the police was out there macing all of us and one police had the gun on T.O. Jones but I didn’t see it but we was talking about the other day he tried to shoot T.O. Jones over the car, somebody snatched T.O. Jones out the way.
Bill Thomas‐ A policemen had a gun pointed at T.O. Jones did he?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes, yes,
David Yellin‐ A revolver or the mace gun?
Ed Gillis‐ A revolver but I didn’t see it they was talking about that the other day.
David Yellin‐ When you saw how many were rocking the car 10 people?
Ed Gillis‐ Well there was 4 or 5 people around the front of that car and that gas was flying everywhere and I pulled my cap off and tried to keep it out of my eyes, put it over my eyes. And they shoot it up in my nose. They carried us about a half of a block that way and then turned down the next street, next street and there was still about 20 polices shooting that mace all in our eyes and faces. Then when we got tot eh next street they had another colored police there with a pump gun had it elevated this way. Then they carried us down this street, we went out to Riverside, after Beale, went up to Riverside. Then they went off to the left. Then they come on back and I would come on back around and when I got back they was following folks on down Cleveland Temple but they hadn’t, they told us they broke out glass with a rock but nobody had a rock or nothing in their hand.
David Yellin‐ Did you run at this time or were you walking when they were macing you?
Ed Gillis‐ I walked, I couldn’t run because they were all around us and had to keep us right against the wall and just steady shooting that mace on us.
Bill Thomas‐ What did the mace feel like do you remember? Ed Gillis‐ It burnt, it stung, it stinging, and it stunk.
Bill Thomas‐ You couldn’t see?
Ed Gillis‐ I couldn’t see because kept my, my eyes ain’t straight from it yet.
David Yellin‐ Did you ever go to a doctor?
Ed Gillis‐ No I didn’t go to a doctor. But it done us all bad. Then they drug me three times on the side with a nightstick one of them, of course I couldn’t tell because I had my cap on my eyes trying to keep that mace out my eyes. One of them in there, 62 years old they busted his head with a black jack. I didn’t see that but when I got to the hole they were telling me about him being drug in the street and some folks putting him in a car and his head was bleeding. I seen his head the next day skin was busted all up there.
Bill Thomas‐ In the police car do you remember how many people were in the police car they were driving?
Ed Gillis‐ There was 4 to 5 to 6 in every car?
David Yellin‐ Did the same car bump you twice?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah.
David Yellin‐ How many were in that care?
Ed Gillis‐ There was four in that car.
David Yellin‐ And was that the car they later rocked?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ That was the car that went over the woman’s foot?
Ed Gillis‐ That’s right.
Bill Thomas‐ Do you know why they did rock the car?
Ed Gillis‐ To get the car off he woman, some of them said it was on the lady’s foot but there was so much gas flying I couldn’t see.
David Yellin‐ Well which happened first? Did it go over the woman’s foot and they started to rock it..
Ed Gillis‐ That was when they started to rock that car when the foot the car was on the woman. I didn’t see it.
Ed Gillis‐ I see. Ed Gillis‐ When I see him the boy was pushing on the car and all them police about 75 of them walking on the other side of the line and police car they are coming around and shooting mace and then the police in the car got out and commenced shooting mace.
Bill Thomas‐ You were, the police who shot the mace at you were they the ones who were in the car did they get out then or what?
Ed Gillis‐ No them didn’t, I didn’t see whether them got out, I couldn’t tell who got out the car after my eyes filled with mace.
David Yellin‐ Yeah now after that day were you in any other marches?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah I was in marches every time.
Bill Thomas‐ After that, where did you go, did you go to Clayborne Temple after you were maced?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah after I got away from the police I went around and cut across and went to Cleveland..
Bill Thomas‐ By your self?
Ed Gillis‐ By myself.
Bill Thomas‐ Who was in Clayborne Temple, do you remember?
Ed Gillis‐ It was Mrs., now wit a minute let’s get this straight it was Mrs. Massas, a barber women, and Mrs. Crenshaw, Epps, reverend Bell and all that gang.
Bill Thomas‐ They were handling a meeting then?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
Bill Thomas‐ Did most of the marchers go back to Clayborne Temple?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yes.
David Yellin‐ How come you were by yourself?
Ed Gillis‐ Well I got cut off, see, I was in a gang and they turn us down and run us back down the riverside, runs out the backstreet there by Goldsmith’s down in there and carry us up that street and they let us alone when we were about to go to Beal St.
Bill Thomas‐ How did you know to go to Clayborne Temple? The march was going back there anyway?
Ed Gillis‐ That was were we was headed we were marching to Clayborne Temple.
David Yellin‐ But they were going to Mason Temple? Ed Gillis‐ NO Clayborne temple, we were going to march to Clayborne Temple.
David Yellin‐ Then there was a meeting later at Mason temple?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ Did you go to that?
Ed Gillis‐ No I went home, (muffled) I don’t think none of them went because reverend Starks told us all to get out and go home.
David Yellin‐ But the ministers were going to have a meeting.
Ed Gillis‐ They going to have a meeting.
David Yellin‐ Ok what did you think of the ministers getting into it, was that a good thing?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes it was a good thing, it was real fine. Because if the ministers hadn’t gotten into it there would have been a lot of bloodshed and they didn’t want no violence. They talked all the time they didn’t want no violence, they just like Martin Luther King they didn’t want no violence.
Bill Thomas‐ Mr. Gillis did you go to a church before this, some church?
Ed Gillis‐ When on Sundays?
David Yellin‐ Are you a church man?
Ed Gillis‐ No, not now. Once in awhile I go up there to church, but I used to belong tot his church back here (muffled) Baptist, reverend Black’s church but I don’t belong to any church now.
David Yellin‐ Is that the same church that Mrs. Cook belongs to?
Ed Gillis‐ I think she does, yes she belongs there and my wife too my wife is a member of that church. Like business reverend Black give me about $17 for the union, that little church on Evelyn they give me $18, I begged $17 out in the street for the union.
Bill Thomas‐ You are going around to raise some money?
Ed Gillis‐ That’s right I raised $100.12. (muffled) give me $30, give me a $10 check and then give me a $20 check.
Bill Thomas‐ Now who did this?
Ed Gillis‐ I would get it down at the whiskey store, the whiskey store man on the corner of (muffled) and Trigg. Ken Anderson.
Bill Thomas‐ Anderson, no Gianatti.
David Yellin‐ Gianatti, the liquor store down there.
Ed Gillis‐ Well he gave me $30, Mr. Benstein he gave me $5.
Bill Thomas‐ Did most of the workers who were on strike did they go out to raise some money?
Ed Gillis‐ No, no, not many of them.
Bill Thomas‐ How did you happen to be doing this?
Ed Gillis‐ Well because I wanted to help the union, I was in the union I was in the strike, well I just have confidence that them folks would give me money. And they did.
David Yellin‐ Now what was the money used by the union to help the strikers?
Ed Gillis‐ Oh yeah I carried and turned it in there, and Mr. Champa and T.O. Jones.
David Yellin‐ What about the food stamps was anybody involved in that?
Ed Gillis‐ I have got food stamps twice, the first time I got $18. Then they said food stamps are cut off. Then for the love of me I can’t think of the name he works for Mr. Champa and he is in Nashville and I can’t think of his name.
David Yellin‐ Oh yeah the guy from the state.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes sir. He gave me two $5 dollar orders down there delivery cash on Vance. Then I went back and got $30 food stamps and then next time mayor Lobe had cut them off, had cut off the food stamps.
Bill Thomas‐ You are telling us much earlier about a man who got food stamps and went out but then went back.
Ed Gillis‐ Dan Walker.
Bill Thomas‐ And what did he do now?
Ed Gillis‐ He working from the city but they taking all them that scabbed, you got them in a bunch that scabbed he is not with us anymore. All them that worked why we off they got them in a gang doing (muffled).
David Yellin‐ How about now? Ed Gillis‐ Yes, they would come out, they would come out and (muffled) they just kept working.
Bill Thomas‐ Is that all 4 or 5?
Ed Gillis‐ Well to my knowledge the boys on them tar cans they didn’t quit work and some of the common labor didn’t quit work.
David Yellin‐ What did you think they should have quit?
Ed Gillis‐ Well everybody should have quit. Now if everybody had quit and t hose fellows had stayed off them garbage trucks, and mayor Lobe had checked them prisoners out of there, why Martin Luther King would be living today.
David Yellin‐ Well how do you know there were prisoners in there did you see any or did you hear about any?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah I heard about it, there in the first Sunday they picked up down there one got way down there on Waldo and the tale there too got whipped on Mississippi. That’s the reason they warned the folks set the garbage out on the front, so the police could watch those prisoners that’s all that was.
David Yellin‐ Do you know of anybody who knows anybody who had a relative that was a prisoner there?
Ed Gillis‐ Well there was one preacher there he told me his wife, this man, this woman told him that she saw here husband on the garbage truck and he was working at the penal farm.
David Yellin‐ Do you remember who that was?
Ed Gillis‐ No I didn’t ask him who it was.
David Yellin‐ Do you remember the preacher?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah I remember.
David Yellin‐ Can we have his name?
Ed Gillis‐ Reverend Higley.
David Yellin‐ Reverend?
Ed Gillis‐ Hiblet.
David Yellin‐ Hiblet?
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ Where is he a preacher? Ed Gillis‐ He got some church off out in the country but the whereabouts I do not know?
David Yellin‐ Reverend Hiblet and you don’t know where he can be reached?
Ed Gillis‐ He works with us now and I tell you now I think he works at Goodman’s Barn I think.
David Yellin‐ He works in the sanitation?
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah he was in the (muffled).
David Yellin‐ Do you remember his full name?
Ed Gillis‐ All I know is they call him reverend Hiblet, now what his given name is I don’t know.
David Yellin‐ Anybody else that you know that may have seen prisoners, because see that is the only way you can say that it is so right.
Ed Gillis‐ Boy said he seen them on there, but I didn’t and I didn’t know who these boys was and they said they seen prisoners on them.
David Yellin‐ Because the family would know if they were out in the penal farm that time and if they saw them working then you put two and two together and say that is where they are from right.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah that is right.
David Yellin‐ So we would have to find out in order to say this is so who knew about this and where they were and so on.
Bill Thomas‐ The problem is the city says that they didn’t use prisoners, well if they did we want to know but we are trying to find some place…
Ed Gillis‐ Well they must have had prisoners and I know a reason they had prisoners, because that is I see the man coming along with the dog. Why would they have a dog out there if they didn’t have prisoners.
David Yellin‐ Oh you mean with some of the trucks they had the police dogs? You saw them?
Ed Gillis‐ I saw them, myself.
David Yellin‐ Ok is there anything else that you can remember? I mean you have told us an awful lot and this has been just fine. You have talked now for almost 2 hours. Anything else you can think of.
Ed Gillis‐ Now yes I can tell you another word or two. That day they turned us around and Martin Luther King was there, now this man would kill Martin Luther King was seen up in that fire escape over at the old JB Beaver store with a rifle. Now as well as that is ahead me in the march sure enough is some police. Now two three white women upstairs over there, they calling the police and pointing up there. Well they are running around like they are trying to find the man. Went in there and then run out and look up there but they didn’t find the man because he was seen. Because the first just ahead of me said look at that man up there on top of that building with a rifle.
David Yellin‐ Now which building?
Ed Gillis‐ J.B. Beaver, old store at Beale and Main.
David Yellin‐ How high was it do you remember?
Ed Gillis‐ It was on the in the fire escapes up there, you know them fire escapes down in the store but they folded up but he run down one of them pockets.
David Yellin‐ Now in other words when the march started you were marching.
Ed Gillis‐ I was marching and we had got to Beale and this fellow just ahead of me saw that man up on the fire escape.
David Yellin‐ And you say three white women at the building..
Ed Gillis‐ Yes they was upstairs in the window and they was pointing to the police.
David Yellin‐ And where were the police then?
Ed Gillis‐ They were standing there in front of the show there, the building there.
David Yellin‐ And they went, they left where they were standing to go up and get him.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes, they kept running around and running around like this looking for him but they never did get him.
David Yellin‐ When they left to go get him did you see the man with the rifle?
Ed Gillis‐ No I didn’t see him but the fellow just ahead of me said he saw him run down the pocket there and he was showing it to one of the police.
David Yellin‐ Then was this before the windows started to break in the march.
Ed Gillis‐ Well now the windows, let’s get this straight the windows had started to break then see.
David Yellin‐ At the same time.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes because when I got that to Beale and 2nd they had broke out that glass there and a (muffled) was laying out there in the street tore up. David Yellin‐ So all this happened at about the same time.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes.
David Yellin‐ So it could be for instance that the police went after him and then this other stuff started and maybe they came back or they couldn’t.
Ed Gillis‐ No thy didn’t come back they just didn’t try to get the man. There were police there around there many polices were there.
Bill Thomas‐ Well now I am unclear as to when this, this was during the march when Dr. King led that turned into the riot.
David Yellin‐ March 28th.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah that’s the one. Then when we come back the police had to cause all that across the street every which way and they was clubbing everybody see. Well now that particular time a man had that machine which would shoot them gas bombs. He was shooting up those he didn’t shoot mortars, but now when we got to Clayborne Temple they come in and shot those things through the window in Clayborne Temple.
David Yellin‐ Did you see that?
Ed Gillis‐ I smelled it, it was all in the church.
Bill Thomas‐ You were in Clayborne Temple.
Ed Gillis‐ I was in Clayborne Temple and all them folks in front of Clayborne Temple in the yard in front of Clayborne Temple they maced them all over.
David Yellin‐ Now was the door opened several times?
Ed Gillis‐ The door was pushed too you see.
David Yellin‐ When people came in it had to be opened.
Ed Gillis‐ Yeah it had to be opened.
David Yellin‐ Could the gas have come in that way.
Ed Gillis‐ Oh some of it could have come in that way but there was a hole in the window there where they shot those bombs through there.
David Yellin‐ They shot it through a hole in the window, they didn’t go into the church to do it?
Ed Gillis‐ What you say?
David Yellin‐ They didn’t go into the church? Ed Gillis‐ No they stayed on the outside and shot that thing threw.
David Yellin‐ You didn’t see anybody do it but you imagine…
Ed Gillis‐ They was out there, we know they was all out there because folks would come in there with there eyes and head full of gas and face.
Bill Thomas‐ And the church was…
Ed Gillis‐ And down in the bottom where we were was full of gas they shot that hole in there.
David Yellin‐ Was this the same kind of mace or was it tear gas?
Ed Gillis‐ I don’t know what it as I couldn’t tell but I know it burned my eyes and face in there. It was burning me awful bad in there, my eyes.
David Yellin‐ We are coming to the end of the tape.
Ed Gillis‐ The temple was packed.
David Yellin‐ Ok we can talk a little further if we want.
Bill Thomas‐ If he is willing and just a little bit more.
David Yellin‐ Yeah but we are sort of coming to the end of the tape and I did want to say for the tape to thank you for your cooperation and I think you went through an awful lot and we hope it is better for the workers, better for your union and better for everyone here.
Ed Gillis‐ Yes sir I appreciate it.
(Tape End)