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Oral History Interview with Chuck Close, 2017 July 20

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Oral History Interview with Chuck Close, 2017 July 20 Oral history interview with Chuck Close, 2017 July 20 Funding for this interview was provided by the Pollock-Krasner Foundation. Contact Information Reference Department Archives of American Art Smithsonian Institution Washington. D.C. 20560 www.aaa.si.edu/askus Transcript Preface The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Chuck Close on June 20, 2017. The interview took place at Close's studio in Long Beach, NY, and was conducted by Christopher Lyon for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution. Chuck Close and Christopher Lyon have reviewed the transcript. Their corrections and emendations appear below in brackets with initials. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability by the Archives of American Art. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. Interview CHRISTOPHER LYON: This is Christopher Lyon, interviewing Chuck Close at his home and studio in Long Beach, New York, on July 20, 2017. Thank you for agreeing to do this. As I mentioned, I have an itinerary of questions, but you should feel free to go on as you will. If something isn't interesting to you, we'll just move on to the next thing, and when you're tired and if you want to stop, that's totally fine. Just to put this in context, your previous interview with Archives of American Art took place in 1987. Judd Tully was the interviewer. It's a long and very valuable interview. As we said at lunch, 30 years has now passed since that interview and something like 60 percent of your career has been since that time. So, it seemed more than worthwhile to revisit it and hear your thoughts on the intervening time. The most extraordinary thing in that period, in terms of your life, was "The Event," the collapse of the spinal artery—is that correct?—in December of 1988. CHUCK CLOSE: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. CHRISTOPHER LYON: On December 7th. And you have—the rebuilding of your life and career since then has been a pretty remarkable story, and I wanted to talk about that a little bit, if you're willing. There was— A number of subjects, quite a few subjects, are not touched on in that 1987 interview. And we were touching on one of them, I think, at lunch, a bit. And this is the question of the context in which you emerged, and the social—the larger cultural issues that surrounded that period of the late '50s, early 1960s, when you came up. One of the things that I found striking: There's a kind of nice video, a 1997 video of you. And your subject matter, as you put in that video, is "friends, family, and fellow artists." And I think we're in a time today, more and more, where the—that art is not only being looked at as a product of gifted individuals, but as, in a way, a social activity. Which I was struck with in the current Rauschenberg retrospective at MoMA. CHUCK CLOSE: Which is beautiful, isn't it? CHRISTOPHER LYON: It is beautiful, yeah. CHUCK CLOSE: I think it's one of the most beautiful museum retrospectives I've ever seen. Yeah. CHRISTOPHER LYON: And Robert Rauschenberg was one of your subjects in a number of pieces. CHUCK CLOSE: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. CHRISTOPHER LYON: And you knew him, I think, pretty well. CHUCK CLOSE: Yeah. And he hired two other—well, no, actually I never did paint those two other subjects. I never did paint Brice Marden. CHRISTOPHER LYON: Really? CHUCK CLOSE: Because he didn't want to be painted. CHRISTOPHER LYON: Uh-huh [affirmative]. CHUCK CLOSE: But I did paint Dorothea Rockburne and they both worked for Bob. And his studio was a block from mine. CHRISTOPHER LYON: Oh that's right. In the former orphanage, was it? CHUCK CLOSE: Yeah. CHRISTOPHER LYON: Right, right. Oh, I hadn't thought about that. CHUCK CLOSE: And his storage facility was literally the building next door to mine. CHRISTOPHER LYON: I didn't know that. Did you see much of him? CHUCK CLOSE: Yeah, we—for 14 years, as a family, we went to Sanibel and Captiva at Christmas. And it was pretty great because we would—I would at least go see Bob every year. Sometimes my wife and children went, but often they didn't. CHRISTOPHER LYON: One of the things about the retrospective that surprised me a bit, and I just felt enthralled by, is there are a number of reconstructions of his collaborations with dancers. And for one of them, and I'm forgetting which one, there's a collage of his photographs that repeats on a wall. And there must be dozens of photographs in this collection. CHUCK CLOSE: Right. CHRISTOPHER LYON: They are so interesting. He was a wonderful photographer. CHUCK CLOSE: And his son— CHRISTOPHER LYON: Chris. CHUCK CLOSE: —is a wonderful photographer. CHRISTOPHER LYON: I didn't know that. CHUCK CLOSE: And has kept the family tradition going. I just bought—somewhere, where was it? Two really terrific—I have more photographs in my collection than anything else, because I can't afford a great painting by Rauschenberg, but I can afford a great photograph by Rauschenberg. CHRISTOPHER LYON: The thing that I was going to mention about the show is that when the show was at the Tate in London, it was simply called Robert Rauschenberg, like a standard monographic retrospective. At MoMA, Leah Dickerman decided to call it Robert Rauschenberg: Among Friends. And this shift to the emphasis on collaboration or cooperation or whatever, seems to me, a significant kind of shift in curatorial thinking. It made me look back at your work in a certain, somewhat different way maybe than I had, which was—you always, from the beginning, were including your friends, your family, and emphasizing other artists in your painting, almost as if you were—even though you were engaged in this very solitary activity for much of that time, your friends were with you, you know? And I wondered if that—what it looks like in— CHUCK CLOSE: Well, interestingly enough, the title of my print retrospective was Process and Collaboration. So, I love sharing the responsibility and the blame, if they don't like it, and I'm always willing to celebrate the pleasure if people do like it. And that nothing happens with only one person. You know? I was amazed at that Rauschenberg retrospective, because I had no idea that this happened, but putting a work by another artist on a show lets you know that something more has just happened. So there's a Warhol silkscreen painting. I didn't know that Warhol had taught Bob how to make silkscreens, and I knew them both. CHRISTOPHER LYON: There's the collaboration side, and you've had some amazing collaborators, especially in printmaking. There's also sort of the social interactive side. You mentioned, when we were downstairs, being part of that first generation that had gone to university. And that was a pretty extraordinary generation. I mean, your classmates. You mentioned Brice Marden. Vija Celmins, I think was there at that time, right? CHUCK CLOSE: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. CHRISTOPHER LYON: Janet Fish. CHUCK CLOSE: Richard Serra, Nancy Graves. CHRISTOPHER LYON: Nancy Graves, right. CHUCK CLOSE: Janet Fish was married to Rackstraw Downes. CHRISTOPHER LYON: Huh. CHUCK CLOSE: Richard married Nancy Graves. And the year right after ours brought in— CHRISTOPHER LYON: So you were working with an artist like Serra, helping him make pieces. And I think it's so interesting to imagine artists like the two of you coming out of a milieu where you're talking to each other, where you're interacting with one another, looking at how one's solving problems and the other is posing problems. I'm wondering how important that was for you at that time. CHUCK CLOSE: Oh, it was very important. Richard is a very difficult friend to have and an even more difficult enemy to have. I mean, I've been sued by Richard Serra [laughs], but I treasure those years that we spent together. And although he—I don't think I want to go into the whole [laughs] lawsuit with Richard. CHRISTOPHER LYON: [Laughs.] No, no, but in those years, I mean, you were watching him transform from an artist who is basically doing 1950s AbEx [Abstract Expressionism] kind of work, right? CHUCK CLOSE: Paintings. CHRISTOPHER LYON: Paintings. To someone who was deeply engaged in process and materials. And that's the part that seems so interesting. And at the same time— CHUCK CLOSE: If you're a sculptor, you ended up being a painter. If you were a painter, you ended up being a sculptor. I didn't, because I had never understood sculpture. When I would try to make a sculpture, they would— sculpture would confound me. I only worked on it from one side. I forgot to go around it, you know? Interestingly enough, Richard had the same problem. All of his work up through the Prop pieces addressed the wall. CHRISTOPHER LYON: Mm-hmm [affirmative]. CHUCK CLOSE: Things were leaned against it, stuff was— CHRISTOPHER LYON: —thrown against it. CHUCK CLOSE: And— CHRISTOPHER LYON: This is leading somewhere. One of the things that I remember, for some reason, most about Chris Finch's book about you is—I always come back to the passage where he talks about you and Leslie back in the '60s, you know, going out practically every night.
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