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Home , Chet Edwards, Chris Bell (politician), Craig Washington, Jessica Farrar, Jim Turner (politician), John Culberson

Redistricting Subcommittee Hearing in Witness: - June 28, 2003

Page 1 ************************************************** THE HOUSE COMMITTEE on REDISTRICTING SUBCOMMITTEE on CONGRESSIONAL REDISTRICTING ONE 78th LEGISLATURE JUNE 28, 2003 **************************************************

9:00 a.m. Southern University 3100 Cleburne Street Houston, Texas Roderick Paige College of Auditorium

MORNING PROCEEDINGS

Reported by Susan Perry Miller, CSR, RMR, CRR

Spanish Interpreter: Beatriz Wright

Vietnamese Interpreter: Alice Huynh

Hoffman Reporting & Video Service www.hoffmanreporting.com Redistricting Subcommittee Hearing in Houston Witness: - June 28, 2003

Page 2 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 Committee Panel: 4 Chair, Representative Geanie Morrison 5 Vice-Chair, Representative Ron Wilson 6 Representative Phil King 7 Representative Vilma Luna 8 Representative Robert Talton 9 10 Also Present: 11 Representative Rick Noriega 12 Representative Garnet Coleman 13 Representative Martha Wong 14 Representative Joe Deshotel 15 Representative Jessica Farrar 16 Representative Dora Olivo 17 Representative 18 Representative Sylvester Turner 19 Representative 20 Representative 21 Representative 22 Representative 23 Representative 24 Representative Joe Moreno 25

Hoffman Reporting & Video Service www.hoffmanreporting.com Redistricting Subcommittee Hearing in Houston Witness: - June 28, 2003

Page 3 1 PRELIMINARY PROCEEDINGS 2 (The meeting was called to order by the 3 Chair, Representative Geanie Morrison, at 9:48 a.m.) 4 (Representative Vilma Luna is not 5 present.) 6 MORNING PROCEEDINGS 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: We're ready to 8 proceed. First of all, I would like to recognize Dwight 9 Boykins, who is going to welcome us to Texas Southern. 10 MR. BOYKINS: Good morning. 11 AUDIENCE: Good morning. 12 MR. BOYKINS: Good morning. My name is 13 Dwight Boykins, and I'm director of governmental affairs 14 and community relations here at Texas Southern 15 University, and we'd like to welcome you to the campus 16 of TSU. Thank you. 17 (Applause) 18 MR. BOYKINS: On behalf of our Board of 19 Regents and the president, Dr. Priscilla D. Slade, of 20 Texas Southern University, again, we'd like to say 21 welcome. If there's anything that I can do to make your 22 visit here more comfortable, please let me know. Thank 23 you very much. 24 AUDIENCE: More chairs. 25 MR. BOYKINS: More chairs? I'm working

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Page 4 1 on it. 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, Dwight. 3 I want also to thank Texas Southern for all that they've 4 done to help set up, and they are working very 5 diligently to get more chairs and to accommodate each 6 and every one of you. Dwight has been great and the 7 whole staff that has been working to make sure that 8 things run well, and there are always a few snags that 9 happen with equipment but we're working and proceeding. 10 We will now start the meeting. The House 11 Subcommittee on Congressional Redistricting Number One 12 will now come to order. 13 (Gavel) 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Will the clerk 15 please call the roll. 16 MR. UNRUH: Representative Morrison? 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Present. 18 MR. UNRUH: Representative King? 19 REPRESENTATIVE KING: Here. 20 MR. UNRUH: Representative Noriega? 21 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I'm here. 22 MR. UNRUH: Representative Talton? 23 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: Here. 24 MR. UNRUH: Representative Wilson? 25 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Present.

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Page 5 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: There being four 2 present, one absent, a is present. 3 The Chair will now recognize 4 Representative Phil King. 5 REPRESENTATIVE KING: Madam Chair, due to 6 the number of individuals who would wish to testify, I 7 would like to move that the subcommittee adopt the 8 following rule: All testimony should be limited to five 9 minutes in duration, and the Chairman of the 10 subcommittee shall notify the speaker of the expiration 11 of time. The Chairman may place additional time limits 12 on testimony and discussion during the hearing, and such 13 limitations may be altered by a vote of two-thirds of 14 the subcommittee members. 15 And Madam Chair, members, the intent is 16 to just try to help things move along so that as many 17 people as possible can testify before the day is over. 18 I would move adoption. 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, you have 20 heard the motion. Are there any objections? Hearing 21 none, it is so ordered. 22 (Gavel) 23 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Before we begin -- 24 before we begin, I want to inform the committee and 25 those in attendance that we do have a Spanish and

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Page 6 1 Vietnamese speaking interpreters that are present and 2 they are sitting over here on the right. 3 Would you please stand, ladies? 4 If anyone needs any assistance, they are 5 here to help us. If a member of the audience does need 6 a translator, I suggest that you sit near the translator 7 off to the side so that as she assists you to the 8 proceedings of the hearing, that she can be there to 9 help you. 10 A court reporter is also present and will 11 take down the testimony that is given. She is right 12 here in the front with us. In order to assist that we 13 have accurate transcription of what is said, please make 14 sure that only one person speaks at a time and clearly 15 identifies for the record who they are. 16 Anyone who wishes to testify before the 17 committee must completely fill out a Witness Affirmation 18 Form, which as we announced earlier are located in the 19 back of the room up on the top of the second level at 20 the table. Once you have filled it out completely, 21 please turn it in into the box for the assistant clerk. 22 We do encourage that you submit written testimony, but 23 would request that you adhere to the time limits and 24 submit your written testimony at the end. 25 We have a lot of people who are here to

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Page 7 1 testify, so what I would ask is the audience be 2 courteous to each and every witness. Applause and 3 outbursts will only take away from the time that a 4 witness has to testify, and we will run out of time. 5 Additionally, any loud noises will prevent the court 6 reporter and our audio system -- because we are 7 recording, for the record -- from taking any accurate 8 testimony. 9 For anyone who wishes to review the maps 10 that have been presented, there are two large maps that 11 are posted outside of the hearing room. They're 12 actually right here in the very front on the bottom if 13 you want to review a map. 14 It is the intent of the Chair to break 15 for lunch at 1:00 o'clock, and then we will return for 16 testimony at 3:00 is the plan. 17 Members, the purpose of this hearing is 18 to take public testimony on Congressional redistricting. 19 In accordance with legislative protocol, it is the 20 Chair's intent to begin with our elected officials and 21 would ask that they also confine their remarks to the 22 five-minute time limit so that we can have as many 23 individuals testify as possible. Due to the large 24 number of people here to testify, I'm going to ask that 25 a member of the committee who wishes to provide

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Page 8 1 testimony do so from the podium and reserve their time 2 on the dais to ask questions of those that are 3 testifying before the subcommittee. 4 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Madam Chair? 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Yes, Representative 6 Noriega. 7 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: First, thank 8 you, Madam Chair, for allowing me to sit on the dais. 9 You just made a remark as it applies to translation for 10 Spanish language and Vietnamese; and given the 11 population of Harris County of 3.2 million and many of 12 those persons are of Hispanic descent, those that are 13 here that may need translation may not have understood 14 in English that the translator is over here. 15 (Laughter) 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And so -- 17 (Representative Noriega addressing the 18 audience in Spanish.) 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Right. And that 20 wasn't meant to be offensive. 21 Could you please translate in Vietnamese? 22 If you will come to the mike and let everyone know that 23 there is a translator available up at the mike. 24 (Ms. Huynh addressing the audience in 25 Vietnamese.)

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Page 9 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 2 Members, the first -- the Chair is now 3 going to recognize Representative Gene Green and ask if 4 he would like to testify. 5 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN: Good morning, and 6 welcome to Houston. I will not testify. I have a 7 written statement that includes both the current 8 Congressional lines and the latest proposed map that I'd 9 like to introduce and just briefly say, obviously, I 10 oppose the reopening of Congressional redistricting. 11 I was honored to serve 20 years in the 12 State Legislature, 13 in the state House and seven as a 13 state Senator now in Congress. And from the 14 Congressional Research Service, this is the first time 15 in 50 years barring a court order that this issue has 16 been opened up in any state that we know of. Written 17 copies of the statement will be available to the 18 committee, but I'd like you to have time to hear from 19 all these folks who have gathered here today. 20 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 21 Representative Green. 22 (Applause) 23 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 24 recognize Representative Chris Bell to testify on 25 Congressional redistricting, if he so chooses.

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Page 10 1 REPRESENTATIVE BELL: Madam Chair, 2 members of the subcommittee, welcome to Houston. I do 3 not plan to testify today. I do have an affidavit on 4 form in opposition to the reopening of redistricting and 5 look forward to hearing the testimony of the other 6 witnesses here today. Thank you very much. 7 (Applause) 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 9 Representative Bell. 10 The Chair will now recognize 11 Representative Sheila Jackson Lee and ask if she would 12 like to testify on Congressional redistricting. 13 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: I thank you, 14 distinguished Chairperson; and to the committee, I 15 welcome you to the existing 18th Congressional District. 16 (Loud applause) 17 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: One of the most 18 diverse districts, I believe, in the nation. I too will 19 join my colleagues without an intent to offer the 20 complete statement that I have with respect to 21 redistricting. I would ask unanimous consent that I be 22 able to put my entire statement into the record. 23 I will simply say these are three points, 24 if you will, Madam Chairperson, frankly, is that my 25 understanding of redistricting is it belongs to the

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Page 11 1 people. This hearing will not substitute for hearings 2 throughout the 18th Congressional District and all of 3 the districts throughout this region. 4 The plan that is presently before us 5 hurts, diminishes and demines or undermines Harris 6 County by causing us to lose one district out of the 7 six, so we're down to five instead of six. 8 And lastly, on the voter rights issue, 9 the voter rights legislation was written to empower 10 minorities. wrote the language for 11 language minorities. This plan eliminates the 12 opportunity for minorities to have impact by in fact 13 packing the districts, and this is a violation of shore 14 bee Reno. 15 With that, I give back my time, and I am 16 opposed to this plan by Republicans. 17 (Loud applause) 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 19 Wilson? 20 May I remind you, please, that we want to 21 make sure that we get all of the testimony. The court 22 reporter cannot take testimony when she cannot hear the 23 witness, so -- and also we're recording. 24 Representative Wilson? 25 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Thank you, Madam

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Page 12 1 Chairman. I'd like to ask -- a little volume on this 2 mike? Hello, hello? How is that, is that better? 3 Madam Chairman, I'd like to ask the 4 Congresswoman a question if she doesn't mind. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Sure. 6 Representative Lee? 7 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: Yes, sir, 8 Representative. 9 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Congresswoman 10 Lee, I want to just engage a little bit in a 11 philosophical exchange with you. I noted that you are 12 concerned that the consideration of this redistricting 13 plan I think you said would violate the Voting Rights 14 Act and deny minorities the opportunity to have 15 influence in other districts. Did I correctly state 16 your concern? 17 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: It's Shaw v. Reno, 18 it's a packing concern. And I don't pretend to be a 19 civil rights attorney, but we believe that we have 20 legitimate constitutional and civil rights legal 21 arguments as relates to both Hispanic districts and 22 districts relating to African-Americans, as well as 23 relating to districts that violate communities of 24 interest, which impact the entire community. 25 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Okay. Now, what

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Page 13 1 is your position on influence districts? I.e., 2 minorities being a part of, say, you know, a majority 3 represented district so that they have influence on that 4 individual? 5 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: I think that is a 6 very viable concept, and let me just be pointed in my 7 response because I don't want to take up the time of 8 these very many constituents here. 9 I think that is both relevant and 10 important. We have those existing now in many of the 11 Republican Congressional districts. I can't provide the 12 litmus test for the influence of the African-Americans, 13 mostly in the sort of rural areas of Texas, sort of 14 outside of the large cities. 15 But if you take the NAACP scorecard, the 16 existing members of the Congress now, 17 Republicans have not been impacted because they score 18 somewhere between 4 and 7% approval ratings; where the 19 overall Democratic Congressional delegation, that there 20 is an impact, such as , such as Jim 21 Turner, are scoring between 85% and 95%. That's where 22 minorities do have an impact, where there are Democrats 23 or people having that same kind of will. 24 So it makes a difference, I think, in 25 whether or not the impact or the influence is ignored,

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Page 14 1 whether or not their existence in the District is 2 ignored, and that is a concern that we would have with 3 the present plan. 4 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: So then would you 5 favor, then, if there was, say, in Harris County the 6 population to justify another African-American 7 Congressional seat in Harris County, would you say that 8 we should not create that seat, we should divide it up 9 so that we can elect two white Democrats? Is that what 10 you're saying? 11 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: Well, sir, I don't 12 want to call on the scriptures, but I would imagine, 13 what gaineth us? Absolutely, we want to see the Voter 14 Rights Act used for us, and I appreciate that line of 15 reasoning. I believe we have the opportunity to elect 16 minorities in districts that are presently existing. 17 But my question is as it relates to the 18 impact on Hispanics and African-Americans and Vietnamese 19 and others that are in this room that if we lose seven 20 members of the delegation whose scoring on behalf of the 21 African-American or Hispanic communities relates to the 22 issues, the policy, then I think we gain nothing when we 23 add that extra seat when we could already have the 24 opportunity to do so. Thank you. 25 (Applause)

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Page 15 1 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: With that line of 2 logic, then, should we not have any African-American or 3 Hispanic members -- 4 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Let the people speak! 5 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: -- to represent 6 the members of the community? In other words, if we can 7 gain influence by allowing minorities to be a part of 8 the other districts, should we not -- should you and I 9 and Sylvester and Dora say, "Don't elect us, divide our 10 districts up so we can elect two more Democrats," rather 11 than have African-American or Hispanic representation? 12 Isn't that where we're going with that line? 13 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: Representative, with 14 due respect, I think we're all on the same page of 15 empowerment, and what I'm suggesting is that the Voter 16 Rights Act created the opportunity for Barbara Jordan to 17 go to the . I think that Barbara 18 Jordan's influence in the United States Congress was 19 because there were people of like mind voting on issues 20 that allowed her in 1968 to amend the Voter Rights Act 21 and add the Spanish language at that time. 22 People of like mind, that helps 23 Hispanics, African-Americans, Vietnamese and others who 24 are in need of, if you will, if I might say, progressive 25 thinkers. I think what we have in this particular plan,

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Page 16 1 one thing that we had is a total obliteration of 2 communities of interest, a total removal of the 3 historicness of this district and many others. 4 We also slice into the potential of 5 African-Americans and Hispanics winning districts in the 6 future. For example, Bonilla seizes the opportunity and 7 I'll also say he might be able to raise his ears, and 8 he's a Republican Hispanic. So no, what I suggest is 9 that I push forward the Voter Rights Act. I want us to 10 be able to represent, but I think that what is happening 11 is that this is a skewed plan to do nothing more than 12 put a solid conservative face on the United States 13 Congress into the 21st century. It does not help those 14 people. 15 (Applause) 16 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: You're not here 17 today -- 18 (Gavel) 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: May I remind you 20 that we are losing the representative's testimony with 21 the court reporter. Could you please be courteous and 22 not clap while she is remarking. The representative has 23 the floor, please. 24 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Sheila, but 25 you're not here to say that we should divide your

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Page 17 1 district and allow the election of two other Democrats, 2 are you? 3 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: What I'm here to 4 say, and I'm speaking for myself and I hope these 5 constituents when I'm yielding to the representative's 6 questions, and I beg pardon of those who are here in the 7 audience. 8 What I am saying is, as you well know, 9 the present plan -- can it quickly come over here? Let 10 me just say as it comes over, the present plan, my 11 position here today, as I know my other colleagues, 12 speaking globally but to speak uniquely for the 18th 13 that does not belong to communities of interest who have 14 been together for 30 years, communities of interest who 15 have empowered whoever their representative is -- excuse 16 me, I just need the map, that's all. That's not it. Is 17 that the map, the new map? Yeah. 18 What I am suggesting to you is my 19 district has already been split in half by this plan, 20 and I don't believe that the gain of what we're gaining 21 relates to the representation in a positive way, if you 22 will, of the positions of many of the African-Americans, 23 Hispanics and others that are in this district. It 24 separates communities of interest. 25 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: But you're not

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Page 18 1 saying, Sheila, "Take my district and let's cut it in 2 half, let's elect two white Democrats," are you? 3 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: But the plan before 4 us -- the plan before the representatives is not there. 5 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: This plan is a 6 long way from being finished. It's a long way from 7 being finished. 8 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: And I am here today. 9 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: You are here 10 today. That's not what you're saying? You're not 11 saying, "Okay, I'm Sheila Jackson Lee, I represent the 12 18th Congressional District. So we can have more 13 influence in Congress, cut my district in half and let's 14 elect two white Democrats instead of sending me to 15 Congress." You're not saying that, are you? 16 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: I am here today to 17 ask you to comply with the Voter Rights Act of 1965, and 18 that is what I think will generate the kind of districts 19 that will be representative -- 20 (Applause) 21 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: -- That will have 22 influence districts, the influence will be relevant, the 23 18th Congressional District will be protected, the 29th 24 will be protected, the 30th will be protected, districts 25 in the Valley will be protected; and all the lines

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Page 19 1 around that make Harris County more empowered by having 2 six concrete districts will be successful. 3 And that will include your work with the 4 25th, which I understand in this plan we have lost the 5 25th to some other region. That does not help. 6 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: That's why I told 7 you the plan isn't finished yet. 8 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: I know. And 9 Representative Wilson, as you well know, the 25th has a 10 sizable African-American population and great influence 11 opportunities for whatever individual runs in that 12 district. I think we lose all of that with this plan or 13 whatever plan. 14 Now, I will say this, and if you will 15 release me, these other plans, I hope that these 16 constituents will have an opportunity to have input into 17 them. But what I am saying is that this plan must pass 18 muster of the Voter Rights Act of '65 and '68. 19 (Applause) 20 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: The plan that we 21 had the last time that we considered this, and we had 22 two African-American predominant Congressional Districts 23 in Houston, were supported by the Texas NAACP. As a 24 matter of fact, they drew the plan in court. I was 25 there. So it's possible to do it.

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Page 20 1 That's why I asked the question to you 2 is, do you think we ought to have another 3 African-American member of Congress or not? 4 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: Wherever we can have 5 an opportunity to increase minority representation 6 fairly, yes, that is always within the guidelines of the 7 Voter Rights Act of 1965. This map does not do that. 8 You lose an Hispanic, you possibly lose the Bonilla seat 9 with a Republican, and there is no guarantee as it is 10 presently drawn. 11 And so my last statement will be, in 12 compliance with the Voter Rights Act of 1965, today 13 we're not there and I don't know if we'll ever get 14 there. I do believe we're there with the current plan. 15 Thank you. 16 (Applause) 17 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Okay. Thank you 18 very much. 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 20 Representative Lee. 21 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: Thank you, Madam 22 Chairperson. Thank you, Representative Wilson. 23 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Thank you. 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 25 recognize our Texas House members that are here, and the

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Page 21 1 first one that I would like to recognize is our Speaker 2 Pro Tem of the House, Representative Sylvester Turner, 3 and ask if he would like to testify on Congressional 4 redistricting. 5 REPRESENTATIVE TURNER: Thank you, Madam 6 Chairman. I will not testify today. I will have an 7 opportunity this coming week or over the next 30 days to 8 do so. 9 Let me just say, as a representative from 10 the City of Houston, we're all affected. Just show me 11 as being on the record as being opposed to the reopening 12 of the redistricting debate, and I think we should move 13 forward. We've got some tough issues in the State of 14 Texas, and I don't want to see us get polarized on this 15 issue. 16 (Applause) 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 18 recognize Representative Rick Noriega from Houston and 19 ask if he would like to testify on Congressional 20 redistricting. 21 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you, Madam 22 Chair. I will wait if I could and allow the other folks 23 here to speak, and I plan on being here all day so I'll 24 wait till the end. 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you,

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Page 22 1 Representative Noriega. 2 The Chair will now recognize 3 Representative Jessica Farrar and ask if she would like 4 to testify on Congressional redistricting. 5 REPRESENTATIVE FARRAR: Not at this time, 6 thank you, Madam Chair. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 8 recognize Representative Martha Wong and ask if she 9 would like to testify on Congressional redistricting. 10 REPRESENTATIVE WONG: Madam Chair, I do 11 not. I want to listen to the citizens. Thank you very 12 much. 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 14 Representative Wong. 15 The Chair will now recognize 16 Representative Joe Deshotel and ask if he would like to 17 testify on Congressional redistricting. 18 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: Well, thank 19 you, Madam Chair. I'll go ahead on and testify, because 20 I think I would like to lay out some things that may 21 help some of the lay people understand what's going on 22 in this forum before they come up and bring their 23 testimony. 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay. And for the 25 court reporter, please, Joe, if you will give your name

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Page 23 1 and who you represent so she will have an accurate 2 record. 3 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: Joe Deshotel, 4 State Representative, District 22, Jefferson and Orange 5 County. 6 I'm particularly concerned about the 9th 7 Congressional District, which is Jefferson County. 8 Under the map that I've last seen, the King map, it ties 9 Beaumont or part of Beaumont, 140,000 people, I think, 10 to Harris County, 510,000 people. Which means basically 11 that Jefferson County would lose a Congressman as seated 12 in that county, we've always had a Congressman from 13 Southeast Texas that lived in that part of Texas. We no 14 longer would have that opportunity to elect a 15 Congressman from Southeast Texas. 16 And when you have the Port of Port 17 Arthur, the Port of Beaumont, the Port of Sabine Pass 18 competing with the Port of Houston and you have a 19 Congressman that lives in Houston and 500,000 20 constituents in Houston, and when you look at federal 21 grants and things of that nature, you can understand 22 where that money is going to go. That concerns us 23 deeply. 24 It concerns us extremely that that 25 Congressman live -- we have a Republican Congressman and

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Page 24 1 a Democratic Congressman. That is important, but more 2 important is it's a Congressman that lives in Southeast 3 Texas and not does not live in Harris County, so I'm 4 particularly concerned about that particular 5 Congressional District. 6 And as far as being a minority 7 opportunity district as we talk about minority 8 opportunity districts, currently, as that district is 9 drawn, two things can happen. One, a Republican can be 10 elected, and we've had a Republican elected. If you 11 look at the statewide returns, you'll see almost 53% of 12 the voters in the 9th Congressional District voted for 13 and for , yet they elected a 14 Democratic Congressman. I think that's important to 15 understand. You don't have to have 60% Republican in a 16 district to elect a Republican statewide for Congress. 17 They chose to elect a Democrat. 18 Also, that district has 30 of the -- if 19 you break it up into Republicans and Democrats, of 20 approximately 48% or 50% Democrats, 33% of those are 21 African-American and Hispanic. So then in a Democratic 22 primary, if an African-American chose to run, or 23 Hispanic, they are in the majority of the Democratic 24 Party and could win in the primary and be faced in the 25 general election with a Republican, and they have had --

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Page 25 1 they would get an opportunity for an African-American to 2 win if you had a race where it was polarized down the 3 Republican-Democratic lines. Where you have a popular 4 Republican running for Congress and a popular Democrat 5 running for Congress, that African-American had an 6 opportunity to win. 7 Some of the members of the U.S. Congress 8 are in those types of districts, so I'm saying we do not 9 need to make any changes to the 9th Congressional 10 District, either to have an opportunity for a Republican 11 to be elected, because that has happened, or have an 12 opportunity for an African-American under the right 13 circumstances. None have run, to my knowledge, a 14 serious candidate, but if a serious candidate ran in any 15 district where there was an open seat and it was a 16 strong Republican running with very conservative values 17 in that part of Texas, that African-American would have 18 a good shot at winning that race. 19 And so that's what I'm here about is the 20 9th Congressional -- my district, Jefferson County, 21 Southeast Texas. And I'll be happy to answer any 22 questions that the committee may have. 23 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, are there 24 any questions of Representative Deshotel? Thank you. 25 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: Well, I'd like

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Page 26 1 to say one other thing to Ron. He didn't ask me, but 2 the questions he asked Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, 3 I don't think that it matters if you create another 4 African-American district; if you stop there, great. If 5 you can create another African-American district, do it. 6 If you can create another African-American or Hispanic 7 district, do it. But if you have to get rid of six or 8 seven people who vote on your issues in order to do it, 9 I say don't do it. I think you have to finish that 10 question out. 11 Sure, Ron, if we could do that, if we 12 could elect someone in the 9th and not lose seven people 13 who vote 85, 90% of the time with our issues, I say do 14 it right now. I'd sign on to it. But that is not 15 what's being done. That's not what's being planned. 16 We're doing that, but we're also taking away seven or 17 eight people. 18 It's like going to a championship team 19 and saying to the owner, say, "I can give you Shaquille 20 O'Neal." 21 Oh, great. 22 "But I'm going to take all the rest of 23 your all-American players and give you some rookies." 24 Well, I'd rather keep my all-American 25 team, and I think that's what we have.

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Page 27 1 (Applause) 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 3 Wilson? 4 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Thank you, Madam 5 Chairman. Joe, the problem I've had in the past is that 6 the population -- the African-American population and 7 Hispanic population has not changed pretty much over the 8 last, you know, 20-some-odd years. It's just grown. 9 We have had the population to justify 10 another African-American Congressional seat for the past 11 20 years, when our party controlled it, and it was not 12 done. When we had the opportunity to draw it, they 13 didn't draw it. Why didn't we draw it? 14 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: I don't know, 15 and I wish we could draw it today. If the Republican 16 Party wants to draw it, draw it. I'll sign on today if 17 that's all we're going to do is create another 18 African-American or another Hispanic district because of 19 population growth. I'd sign on today. 20 But if we do that at the expense of seven 21 votes who vote on our issues, in the net we have not 22 made a net gain on the issues; we've made a net loss on 23 issues that affect our community. 24 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Joe, you wouldn't 25 argue that votes on our issues, would you?

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Page 28 1 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: Well, he has a 2 higher rate than Tom DeLay on our issues. 3 (Loud cheering and applause) 4 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Yeah, that's 5 true. But we're not talking about Tom DeLay. We're 6 talking about Democrats -- 7 (Booing from audience) 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Please, the more 9 that we interrupt, the less time we're going to have for 10 testimony. Let's listen to the members. 11 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: There's not one 12 Republican that votes on these issues greater than Ralph 13 Hall. Ralph Hall is 47%. The highest Republican I see 14 is Ron Berry at 33. The rest are in the 20s. 15 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: So you're saying 16 the NAACP is wrong when they came into the court and 17 said, "These districts can be created and we support 18 them"? 19 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: No, they were 20 supporting them. Now, I'll support them. They weren't 21 supporting these other changes. 22 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: That's right, and 23 I'm talking about those districts. It is possible to 24 draw those districts, is it not? 25 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: If we can draw

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Page 29 1 them, Ron, draw the districts and leave the rest of the 2 districts alone. Don't trade one person for seven 3 persons. 4 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: I understand. 5 But the problem, Joe, is in the House of 6 Representatives, we don't have a majority of the members 7 in the House of Representatives. Do we? 8 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: No. 9 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Do we have it in 10 the Senate? 11 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: No, we don't. 12 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: A plan is going 13 to pass whether you or I like it or not. 14 (Booing from audience) 15 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: You know I know 16 what I'm talking about. 17 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: I understand, 18 Ron. 19 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: If it does pass, 20 should we not try to empower our community as it does? 21 That's the only question I've got. 22 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: Ron, if a plan 23 is going to pass, you're going to have a great deal of 24 influence on that plan, and I would ask you to make sure 25 that the changes made create another African-American

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Page 30 1 district and an Hispanic district and not do away with 2 any other Democratic Congressmen. 3 Create a district that does not do away 4 with other six or seven Democratic Congressmen. 5 Everybody is in favor of that. I mean, we would all 6 want to -- the same in the House of Representatives. I 7 wouldn't say give up my seat to elect two white 8 Democrats. I think that would be foolish. The question 9 you asked the Congresswoman, that's not what we're 10 saying. 11 Wherever we can make a net gain -- but I 12 mean a net gain, not a gain of another face, a gain in 13 the issues that affect our community -- if we can make a 14 gain on those issues, do it. I'll sign on today. 15 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: I understand. 16 Thank you. 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any other 18 questions? Thank you, Representative Deshotel. 19 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I have a 20 question. Joe, I just want to, just for the record -- 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 22 Noriega. 23 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you, Madam 24 Chair. Just for the record, so we don't continue to 25 reemphasize a myth, the DeLay plan that's up on the back

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Page 31 1 wall here does not increase an Hispanic member, so I 2 just want everybody to understand that right up front, 3 right from the get-go. It does not increase another 4 Hispanic member, so that we don't perpetuate that 5 particular myth. That does not occur. 6 Secondly, you are as an attorney haven't 7 looked at the 9th Congressional District as it applies 8 to the Shaw case and the Vera vs. Bush case, would you 9 say that that's something that's going to pass 10 constitutional muster the way it reaches and dips down 11 and all those fingers and everything? 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: It's 112 miles. 13 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: Yeah. In my 14 opinion, it shows that there's an African-American 15 district, some 70%. But once it gets to court, it won't 16 pass muster, in my opinion, it would not stand up. And 17 what you'd have, you would have a bunch of 18 African-Americans and Hispanics supporting this because 19 they think that they're picking up a seat; but then the 20 Court is going to throw it out and all the Republican 21 seats will stand. It was drawn that way intentionally. 22 They're really separate claims for picking up additional 23 seats. 24 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And do we not 25 lose also, as it applies to the influence of the 25th

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Page 32 1 that already has the African-American community -- in 2 fact, based on the last election, perhaps if based on 3 the primary candidates, an African-American could have 4 won the 25th Congressional District. 5 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: I think so. 6 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And also in the 7 and Tarrant County area. Is that not your 8 understanding also? 9 REPRESENTATIVE DESHOTEL: There are a 10 number of districts that way. As I said, the 9th 11 Congressional District voted almost 53% Republican in 12 the statewide races but voted a Democratic Congressman 13 because they had the choice, that's what they wanted, 14 and they should continue to have that choice. 15 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you, 16 Representative. 17 (Applause) 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any other 19 questions? Thank you, Representative Deshotel. 20 The Chair is now going to recognize 21 Representative Garnet Coleman and ask if he would like 22 to testify on Congressional redistricting. 23 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Yes, ma'am. 24 (Applause) 25 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Thank you, Madam

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Page 33 1 Chair. I really do appreciate this opportunity, and I 2 hope my constituents, as we're in the 147th Legislative 3 District, where I represent, will bear with me for a 4 moment, because I hope that they've trusted that we're 5 working hard on their behalf to make sure we stop this. 6 And I want to make a couple of things 7 clear, Madam Chair. First of all, I'm against this 8 plan. I think people know that already. At least they 9 should. We were on a bus to Ardmore, and so they should 10 know that. 11 (Cheering and applause) 12 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: And the issue 13 there is, you know, sometimes you've got to get on the 14 bus, as Spike Lee said, and go out there and do what's 15 right, so that's what we did. 16 But the interesting thing about this is 17 that in Texas, and in the nation, we have never 18 undertaken a mid-decade Congressional redistricting 19 unless ordered to do so by a federal court because our 20 plan was illegal. Let me repeat that: We have never 21 done that unless our plan was illegal. There is nothing 22 illegal about the plan that we have. 23 I think the other thing that folks need 24 to understand is that people have already elected the 25 member of Congress of their choice. They've already

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Page 34 1 voted for Sheila Jackson Lee, Gene Green, Chris Bell, 2 Nick Lampson, and their expectation was that they 3 would -- if they didn't like them, they're the ones who 4 would vote them out, and that those would be the seats 5 that would be there for them for the next 10 years. 6 (Applause) 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 8 Coleman? 9 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Yes. 10 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If there is 11 applause, can we get you to not speak for a moment? 12 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Sure. 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Because we 14 cannot -- the interpreters and also the court reporter 15 and the tape will not pick up your conversation while 16 there is noise in the audience. Thank you. 17 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: The other reason 18 that's important is because of something that 19 Representative Deshotel brought up and the question that 20 Representative Rick Noriega asked. You know, we've 21 already been to court over racial gerrymandering, as it 22 is called, in Shaw vs. Reno and Vera v. Bush, and we had 23 to alter the state House lines for that purpose because 24 that's the only time we came back in to do redistricting 25 is when the Court said that we violated Shaw vs. Reno.

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Page 35 1 There is no violation of Shaw vs. Reno or Vera v. Bush 2 except in the map proposed by Mr. King, and that map is 3 surely racial gerrymandering; and as Joe Deshotel said, 4 that district will never pass court muster. 5 The other thing is that this is flawed. 6 This hearing is not a hearing. This hearing is for the 7 committee -- pardon me, Madam Chair -- and for Tom DeLay 8 to have what they want. And the reason you're doing 9 this now is because it wasn't done when we were in the 10 legislative session and you're just checking the legal 11 boxes so you can do something that is illegitimate. 12 (Loud applause) 13 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Generally, we 14 have the Senate and the House together, so that -- and 15 the committee together so that everybody can hear the 16 testimony of the people and then work together to draw a 17 plan. But I don't think we should be here at all, so I 18 suppose that doesn't matter either, as other things have 19 not seemed to matter in this process. 20 I think let's make something else clear. 21 As it comes to this idea of a Republican affirmative 22 action -- 23 (Laughter) 24 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: -- the ideas 25 here that you already have Republicans who have decided

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Page 36 1 to vote for Democrat, I know that pains Republicans so 2 badly that their folks and the independents would want 3 to vote for a Democrat; but sometimes they do, just like 4 Democrats and Independents decide to vote for 5 Republicans. And I think just like our members of 6 Congress here and in other parts of the state, people 7 have made that choice, and this takes their vote away 8 because they made a choice and they ought to be the ones 9 that make the choice to remove or elect their member of 10 Congress. 11 The other thing is that in that 12 disenfranchisement of those voters -- I want the 13 African-American people in this room to understand that 14 all black folks don't live in Houston. Some of them 15 happen to live in Lufkin, Nacogdoches, Waco, all over 16 this state, and it's the same with Hispanics. So to 17 take their representation away under the guise of -- and 18 actually, quite frankly, Ron, I'm disappointed in you -- 19 (Loud applause) 20 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: -- but under the 21 guise of giving black people more representation, I just 22 think that is clearly the wrong thing to do because what 23 you're doing is taking away representation -- 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I recognize 25 Representative Wilson, next question.

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Page 37 1 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I'll be happy to 2 yield. I'll be happy to yield. 3 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: I know you say 4 you're disappointed in me. 5 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I am. 6 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: I'm disappointed 7 in you. 8 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Well, you've 9 always been disappointed in me. 10 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: No, I haven't. 11 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Yes, you have. 12 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: No, I haven't. 13 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Yes, you have, 14 Ron. You have. You're just embarrassed, that's all. 15 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: No, I'm not. You 16 need to come clean. You handled over a million dollars 17 of campaign money for the Democrats last time. You did! 18 You did! You've got a personal agenda. You do. You 19 do. 20 (Booing from audience) 21 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Ron Wilson, I 22 don't have a Lamborghini sitting out here in the front. 23 You're the one with the Lamborghini sitting out in 24 front. You're the one who is making money off of this 25 stuff, you're goddamn right! That's why you're

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Page 38 1 embarrassed. 2 (Parties speaking simultaneously.) 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Order, please. 4 Order, please. 5 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: I work real hard. 6 I work real hard. I'm a lawyer, and I'm a real good 7 lawyer. I earn my money. I don't make my money running 8 campaigns for nobody! 9 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: And neither do 10 I, Ron. 11 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Yes, you do, too. 12 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Neither do I, 13 Ron. 14 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: That's why you 15 attack me. You attacked me. 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The chair is 17 recognizing Representative Turner. 18 (Parties speaking simultaneously.) 19 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Tell everybody 20 where you're coming from. 21 (Parties speaking simultaneously.) 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 23 Turner has been recognized. Representative Turner? 24 REPRESENTATIVE TURNER: Thank you, Madam 25 Chairman. Representative Coleman, Representative

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Page 39 1 Wilson, let me just -- I know this is a very, very testy 2 issue. 3 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Oh, it is. 4 REPRESENTATIVE TURNER: But let me just 5 ask, let me just ask -- we work very well together. 6 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Yes, we do. 7 REPRESENTATIVE TURNER: And let's just 8 state our case and let's have the people themselves 9 present their testimony and let's move forward. We can 10 disagree, but we can all please do it in such a way that 11 we don't have to be personal. 12 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Well, Ron and I 13 have already put in time, so I guess it 14 doesn't matter. 15 REPRESENTATIVE TURNER: Let's just stay 16 on the record and be respectful. 17 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I'm trying to be 18 respectful, and I apologize, Ron, if I disrespected you. 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay. Members, 20 members, can we please keep our testimony not personal. 21 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Yes, ma'am. 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And let's continue 23 on. Thank you. 24 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Thank you, Madam 25 Chair.

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Page 40 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: You're welcome. 2 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I think it's 3 very important that we understand, members, is that when 4 you look at issues that are important to people in the 5 18th Congressional District, the 25th Congressional 6 District, up in , they're concerned about 7 whether their children are uninsured. And if you have 8 people who have decided that insurance for children is 9 not important, like we did in this last legislative 10 session, and cut 170,000 kids out of health insurance, 11 that's what hurts the people in this state. 12 (Cheering and applause) 13 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: And you have to 14 look at the value of what people do, and you have to 15 look at what elected officials do to represent their 16 districts, and that's what's important. And that's why 17 I'm here testifying, to make sure that people are well 18 represented both here in terms of their needs in this 19 state and the way they're represented in . 20 And I agree with Joe Deshotel and I agree with Sheila 21 Jackson Lee, that the individuals that would be replaced 22 by this Republican affirmative action, that those 23 individuals would not represent the interests of the 24 people who have the same needs, those here in Houston 25 and across the state. And if you remove their

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Page 41 1 representation, then they get worse representation. 2 The last thing I want to make sure that 3 people understand is this: In the Congress, it's winner 4 take all, and right now there's a 14-seat difference 5 between Democrats and Republicans, and so what this 6 would do is increase that difference to about 21 seats. 7 And so that's the whole deal here. This has nothing to 8 do with black and brown, people. That's just a red 9 herring. This has to do with increasing Republican 10 power and keeping it for another 20 or 30 years. 11 (Loud applause) 12 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: And we know that 13 we're giving that power to Republican Majority Leader 14 Tom DeLay, who refuses to put a bill out to vote on a 15 tax credit for poor people. And that's what we'll get 16 when we do this, just 20 to 30 years more of that. And 17 I'll stop and answer any questions. 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 19 questions of Representative Coleman? 20 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Thank you, Madam 21 Chair. Ron. 22 (Applause) 23 (Standing ovation) 24 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I tell you, Ron, 25 I apologize to you. I really do. I apologize greatly

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Page 42 1 to you. 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 3 recognize -- 4 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: And, Madam 5 Chair, I apologize for the lack of decorum at the 6 committee. But I'm very passionate about this, as Ron 7 is, as you all are. But we wouldn't have to have these 8 fights if Tom DeLay and Joe Crabb didn't bring us here 9 and the other folks. We shouldn't be here, Madam Chair. 10 Thank you. 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thanks, 12 Representative Coleman. 13 The Chair will now recognize 14 Representative Dora Olivo and ask if she would like to 15 testify at this time. 16 REPRESENTATIVE OLIVO: Not at this time. 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, Dora. 18 Have I missed any other members of the 19 Texas House that are here this morning or that have come 20 in? I'm sorry, I will now recognize our colleague who 21 has just joined us. 22 (Representative Luna is now present.) 23 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Thank you, and I 24 apologize. I had to catch a flight in from Corpus 25 Christi this morning, but I'm glad to see such a great

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Page 43 1 crowd here. 2 AUDIENCE: We can't hear you. 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 4 Vilma Luna, who is on the subcommittee, has joined us 5 this morning. Welcome, Vilma. 6 City Councilmember Bruce Tatro, is he -- 7 is he here? 8 (Light applause) 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Would you like to 10 come down and testify on Congressional redistricting? 11 Not at this time. Thank you for being here. 12 The Chair will now recognize Howard 13 J. Middleton, who is with the Harris County Council of 14 Governments -- 15 MR. MIDDLETON: Council of Organizations. 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: -- of 17 Organizations. And would you like to testify? 18 MR. MIDDLETON: Sure, yes, ma'am. Thank 19 you, Madam Chair. 20 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And just for the 21 record, if you'll give your name and who you're with so 22 we'll have it correct in the record. 23 MR. MIDDLETON: My name is Howard 24 J. Middleton, Jr., and I'm with the Harris County 25 Council of Organizations. And I stand before you today

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Page 44 1 representing a large portion of this black community in 2 Houston. 3 We have been satisfied with our 4 districts. We feel that they're appropriately drawn. 5 We do not like disruption, and unknown is a real killer 6 in our world. We don't know what this will lead to. 7 But I do say one thing, there has been a problem in our 8 community that I've worked on that this is going to 9 help. I've tried to get the black and brown to work 10 together; now you're forcing them to. 11 (Applause) 12 MR. MIDDLETON: You've probably created a 13 relationship with two groups that should have been 14 together a long time ago, but now they're going to be 15 fighting together to survive. And I want to thank you 16 for that. 17 (Laughter) 18 MR. MIDDLETON: The other part of my 19 testimony here has to do with, why don't we follow the 20 State Attorney General's recommendation? He's also a 21 Republican, and I think he says this doesn't have to be 22 done. Well, hard things to do are to always be put off. 23 I don't want the type of things that are very difficult, 24 and the AG says this one doesn't have to be done. 25 He didn't tell you it's legal or illegal,

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Page 45 1 he just says it doesn't have to be done. So if it 2 doesn't have to be done, why don't we just think about 3 not doing it? Thank you. 4 (Applause) 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The members have 6 any questions? The members have any questions of 7 Mr. Middleton? Thank you for your testimony. 8 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Madam Chair? 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 10 recognize Councilwoman Ada Edwards and ask if she would 11 like to testify on Congressional redistricting. 12 MS. EDWARDS: Thank you, Madam Chair. My 13 name is Ada Edwards, and I serve as the District 3 City 14 Councilperson. And I'm mainly speaking for myself, but 15 I would also like to have the opportunity to submit some 16 quantitative measures that will be supplied for the 17 committee. 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Absolutely, we will 19 take written testimony, whatever you would like to 20 submit to us. 21 MS. EDWARDS: District E, Madam Chair, is 22 144 square miles with 200,000 residents, and we have 23 talked regarding this issue to probably 80% of our civic 24 clubs regarding this issue, and they are totally against 25 this, and I will give you that information in written

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Page 46 1 form at a later date. 2 But what I wanted to say from a personal 3 level and from a level of being involved in politics for 4 a long time, that this is a coup. It's a straight-up 5 coup. In Central and South America, that's what they 6 call it. The people voted for who they wanted in 7 office. 8 (Applause) 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Can I get you to 10 stop for a moment? 11 Whenever you applaud, we cannot hear the 12 testimony that's on the tape. 13 (Light applause) 14 MS. EDWARDS: The people voted for who 15 they wanted into office. You had Republicans who voted 16 for Democrats and Democrats who voted for Republicans. 17 What Tom DeLay is doing is nothing more than chapter two 18 of what happened in , and I am tired of the 19 courts of this country coming back -- 20 (Applause) 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And we cannot hear 22 the testimony. We can't hear your testimony. 23 MS. EDWARDS: I am tired of the courts of 24 this country coming back and slapping people down with 25 their own interpretation of what they're calling the

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Page 47 1 Constitution or whatever. This is crazy. And if the 2 American people decide that we want to live in a 3 benevolent dictatorship country, then we'll accept this. 4 If we decide we want to stay in a democratic republic, 5 we will fight this. I'm saying I'm siding with the 6 people. 7 This is wrong. It borders on being evil. 8 But if you look at it from a political position, it's 9 nothing more than a coup. And that's my statement. 10 Thank you, Madam Chair. 11 (Cheering and applause) 12 (Standing ovation) 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members have any 14 questions? Members, do you have any questions of 15 Ms. Edwards? 16 Thank you, Ms. Edwards, for your 17 testimony. 18 Councilman Gordon Quan is here also. 19 Would you like to testify on Congressional 20 redistricting? 21 MR. QUAN: Not at this time. 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Not at this time. 23 Thank you, sir, for being here. 24 Are there any other elected officials in 25 the audience that I have missed? Okay. Do you have a

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Page 48 1 witness affirmation form that you would like to testify? 2 D, can you get their forms so that -- 3 MS. PUCCETTI: It's been turned in. 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If you will come on 5 up and identify yourself. 6 MS. PUCCETTI: Thank you. Madam Chair, 7 honorable members of the committee, my name is Dianna 8 Puccetti, and I'm a Councilmember from the City of 9 Galveston serving in my third term. 10 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Before you start, 11 please, we need to find your statement just to make sure 12 that we have the affirmation form. Do we have it? 13 MS. PUCCETTI: I handed it to -- 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Let us just find 15 it, please. 16 MS. PUCCETTI: It's there. 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If any other 18 elected officials have their forms, okay, you turned 19 them in, if you will give your name so that we can pull 20 your form while others are testifying so we can move on 21 more quickly. 22 If you'll just come down, yes, if you'll 23 just sign in and let us know you're here so we can be 24 sure and recognize you to testify. 25 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Just vote no and we can

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Page 49 1 all go home! 2 (Applause) 3 MS. PUCCETTI: Madam Chair, may I 4 proceed? 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If we can have 6 order again, please. 7 (Gavel) 8 MS. PUCCETTI: Madam Chair, I'd like the 9 record to reflect that that's the third form that I've 10 had to fill out today. 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Well, we had 12 several that were forms that were not our forms, and 13 that's why we have had some confusion, and I'm sorry for 14 that. But the Witness Affirmation Form is part of the 15 requirements of our rules. 16 MS. PUCCETTI: And that's the same form 17 that I've completed. 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And so is your 19 affidavit of what you want to testify. So I'm sorry, if 20 you will give your name for the record and who you're 21 with and start your testimony, please. Thank you. 22 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Just a second. 23 Also, we're taking you out of order because there are 24 other people that want to testify also, and we're trying 25 to get to elected officials first. We have to dig

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Page 50 1 through this list of about 200 affirmations. We're 2 trying to expedite everybody getting up here and being 3 heard. 4 MS. PUCCETTI: I highlighted it on the 5 form. That's fine. Thank you. Let's get to the 6 people. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Yes. If you'll go 8 ahead and state your full name for the record. 9 MS. PUCCETTI: My name is Dianna 10 Puccetti, and I'm a Councilmember from the City of 11 Galveston serving in my third term. I'm here today 12 speaking in my capacity as a Councilmember elected to 13 represent the people, and also as an individual citizen 14 who holds true the democratic process and each 15 individual's right to vote and for that vote to count. 16 I'm speaking against redistricting and 17 opening the process for change to the current lines. I 18 regret that only a portion of the committee is present 19 at this site to hear the public's testimony. The 20 hearing process held across the state on short notice 21 with split participation from the committee is yet 22 another window dressing in this unprecedented process. 23 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Yeah! 24 (Applause) 25 MS. PUCCETTI: Texas has a map with lines

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Page 51 1 that were drawn after the 2000 census. Texas is not 2 mandated to act on Congressional redistricting, and the 3 U.S. Supreme Court formed the current court order -- 4 found the plan constitutional that we currently have. 5 Prior to 2003, no legislation in this 6 country, no body, has redrawn Congressional lines in the 7 middle of a decade unless ordered by a federal court. 8 Texas is currently under no such mandate. This process 9 and the proposal currently on the table, although in all 10 likelihood is not the plan that will come to the floor 11 in this special session that is scheduled to begin day 12 after tomorrow, June the 30th -- this unnecessary 13 session will cost the taxpayers a minimum of $7 million 14 at a time when this state is facing unprecedented budget 15 challenges. 16 (Loud applause) 17 MS. PUCCETTI: Over the course of the 18 regular session, many, many cuts were made, cuts that 19 will hurt the people of this state and our citizens. 20 After participating in the May redistricting hearings in 21 Austin, I have spoken to everyone that I can come in 22 contact with. Whether they're Republican or Democrat, I 23 have told them the simple message: You need to be 24 concerned about what's going on in this state in regards 25 to redistricting, you need to pay attention and you need

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Page 52 1 to participate. And I'm glad all of these people are 2 here today to speak. 3 The plan that's presented today seems to 4 dilute communities of interest, and this dilution is a 5 primary concern to me in my role as a Councilmember and 6 municipal elected official. The City of Galveston is 7 currently part of the 9th Congressional District. 8 Proposed changes for this district is a violation of 9 Section 5 and Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. 10 While the 9th Congressional District is 11 large with diverse characteristics, Galveston shares 12 commonalities with many areas of the district by virtue 13 of the beach coastline, an active port and shipping 14 industry, and the petrochemical industry, and many 15 others. The plan outlined by Representative King, as 16 well as the one previous by Crabb, puts us in a district 17 with areas that have little in common and do not have 18 the same representational needs as the city of 19 Galveston. This is a major concern for the city. 20 The 9th Congressional District includes 21 Jefferson, Chambers, Galveston counties and portions of 22 Harris County. Congressman Nick Lampson has represented 23 the citizens and the constituencies in the district 24 extremely well for four terms. 25 (Loud applause)

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Page 53 1 MS. PUCCETTI: Congressman Lampson's 2 record reflects that he is one of the most responsive 3 members of the Texas delegation. A close review of his 4 voting record demonstrates his strong commitment to 5 doing what is best for the citizens of the state that he 6 serves. We have many citizens here to speak today and I 7 applaud them for participating in their government. 8 The City of Galveston respectfully 9 requests that your committee leave the City of Galveston 10 and County of Galveston in the 9th Congressional 11 District under the representation of Nick Lampson, who 12 was elected by the people as their choice to represent 13 them. 14 To sum it up, I think perhaps Professor 15 John Alford of Rice University said it best when he 16 participated as an expert witness for the State of 17 Texas, Governor Rick Perry, and former Attorney General 18 John Cornyn in the post-2000 round of redistricting, and 19 I quote: "The fact that Republican Congressional 20 candidates have been only able to win 15 Congressional 21 races is a product of the campaigns the Republican 22 candidates have run, the performance of Democratic 23 office holders, and is not based on any political 24 unfairness of the map." The proposed DeLay map 25 gerrymanders districts to ensure that voters will have

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Page 54 1 no options and thus attempts to impose a Republican 2 victory in 22 of the districts. 3 And I would also add just a personal 4 testimony at the end that my mother gave me permission 5 to share with you. My mother is 85 years old and could 6 not be here today. She's been a staunch Republican her 7 entire life. Over the last three elections for 8 Congressional seats, she has opted not to vote a 9 straight ticket. The reason for that was she wanted to 10 vote for Congressman Nick Lampson, who, in her words, as 11 an average citizen of this state, has done a tremendous 12 job in representing our needs and has done a lot for us, 13 and she wanted to see him returned to Congress. Thank 14 you. 15 (Applause) 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 17 questions? Representative Talton? 18 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: Councilwoman, 19 y'all draw lines in Galveston, do you not? 20 MS. PUCCETTI: Yes, sir, we do. 21 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: And y'all did 22 this last time. Did y'all redraw the council lines? 23 MS. PUCCETTI: Yes, sir, we adjusted them 24 in a minor fashion. 25 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: A court didn't do

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Page 55 1 it, did they? 2 MS. PUCCETTI: No, sir. 3 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: Thank you. 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any other 5 questions? Representative Noriega? 6 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Councilwoman, 7 real quick. Councilwoman, as an elected official, you 8 heard previous testimony. Did you hear Mr. Middleton 9 earlier describe the Attorney General of the State of 10 Texas, his opinion, if we were compelled or not 11 compelled to redistrict? 12 MS. PUCCETTI: Yes, sir, I did. 13 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: What did you 14 hear? 15 MS. PUCCETTI: The Attorney General has 16 said we are not under a mandate to redraw these lines. 17 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 18 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Yeah! 19 (Applause) 20 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Any other 21 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 22 The Chair will now recognize Yolanda 23 Birdwell to testify against Congressional redistricting. 24 We do, we have not been able to find a Witness 25 Affirmation Form. That's what we're looking for, so

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Page 56 1 we're going to proceed on, and as soon as we find the 2 form we will call you up to the... 3 Well, if you'll state your full name and 4 who you're with for the record, please. 5 MS. BIRDWELL: Yes. My name is Yolanda 6 Garza Birdwell. I'm here as an individual; however, I 7 work with Latinos Por La Paz. I am against the board. 8 As a Latina, I'm opposed to the Republican DeLay plan. 9 I do not trust policies promoted by Republicans who want 10 to build empires and not our rights. 11 I acknowledge and I want to tell you that 12 I am very happy that you are having this exchange. I 13 believe that you are now giving us a glimpse of hope 14 doing the job that you were elected to do. 15 (Applause) 16 MS. BIRDWELL: However, my question is, I 17 have lived in United States for 35 years and I have been 18 extremely active in the political arena from the day 19 that I became a U.S. citizen. Texas is going down. We 20 have glimpsed the degradation everywhere. I do know 21 that we have the most brilliant people, with degrees and 22 everything, with credentials. However, how come we do 23 not question our elected officials like we should? How 24 come -- how come we follow or we vote according to the 25 polls instead of asking what is right for an immigrant

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Page 57 1 child, what protects a soldier, what protects the human 2 beings all over the United States? We don't question. 3 We're the most ignorant, arrogant people! 4 And I want you to know that I'm aware how 5 these -- how the media is controlled and doesn't let us 6 ask the right questions. Where are the weapons of mass 7 destruction? That is a lie to the whole world! 8 (Cheering and applause) 9 MS. BIRDWELL: That is a lie to cover up! 10 And DeLay, who wants to exterminate my people, there has 11 been more Latino soldiers killed, Latinos from Texas, 12 poor people, not even citizens, that has been killed in 13 these atrocities of war. But we don't ask because it's 14 not proper to ask, because we may not get the money from 15 Halliburton! Latinos in Texas, I am telling you, I am 16 against this criminal, criminal activity by the 17 Republican Party! 18 (Cheering and applause) 19 MS. BIRDWELL: And I listen -- I listen 20 to Pacifica and I listen to Democracy Now and I suggest 21 that some of you that give me a hope, like Ms. Jackson, 22 like Mr. Coleman, like this gentleman over there, like 23 that lady over there, that left Texas in order not to 24 vote -- I am proud, and that is the reason I am here 25 today!

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Page 58 1 I am tired of marching, I'm tired of 2 everything! I wanted to do it within the law, but I do 3 know that you know, some of you that want to be with 4 Bush, that you know it. You need to question that man. 5 You need to question that criminal! He is worse than 6 Saddam! 7 (Applause) 8 MS. BIRDWELL: And yes, I know that Texas 9 and some of these Republicans heavies, that it is a fact 10 that they would put me in a concentration camp. We're 11 coming to if the people don't wake up. So 12 please, if you are elected, if you want to have your 13 constituency, do the right thing. I'm a mother, a 14 grandmother, an activist, and I will use my voice until 15 the last moment. Thank you very much, and vote against 16 this redistricting! 17 (Cheering and applause) 18 (Standing ovation) 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, do you 20 have any questions? Members have any questions? 21 The Chair will now recognize Ernest 22 Wilkerson, City Councilmember from Killeen, to testify 23 against Congressional redistricting. Mr. Wilkerson, if 24 you'd just state your name and who you're with for the 25 record, please.

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Page 59 1 MR. WILKERSON: Yes, Madam Chairman. My 2 name is Ernest Wilkerson from the City of Killeen. I am 3 here to testify we are opposed to any redistricting 4 plan. 5 The current Congressional District 6 boundaries were ordered by a three-judge federal panel 7 after being reviewed on public testimony gathered over 8 dozens of hearings and filed through our state, and 9 after months of state and federal litigation, the plan 10 was ordered -- the plan was ordered and found to be in 11 full compliance with the Voter Rights Act and is both -- 12 thus the current plan. It's fair to both political 13 parties. 14 The court ordered neither -- neither 15 anticipated nor suggested that the legislature should 16 revisit Congressional redistricting this decade. The 17 recent opinion by Attorney General has made 18 it clear that redistricting is not required or mandated. 19 Not once in the last 50 years has any state legislature 20 in the country enacted a new Congressional redistricting 21 plan in the middle of a decade absent a specific court 22 order to do so. 23 Every major newspaper in every region of 24 Texas has editorialized against redrawing the 25 Congressional districts, declaring that it is partisan,

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Page 60 1 it has a partisan agenda and is driven by ambition. 2 One of the second of two other points is 3 preserving districts with communities of interest. One 4 of the outstanding principles of redistricting in Texas 5 is, in addition to a fair opportunity for public 6 hearings, to preserve communities of common interests. 7 The communities that make up the current 11th District 8 all have similar common interests. Bell County has been 9 in the same Congressional District with McLennan County 10 and Coryell counties for over 100 years. 11 The only redistricting plans made public 12 up-to-date splits Bell County into two Congressional 13 districts or separates them from McLennan County, and 14 this we are opposed to. Moving all or part of Bell 15 County into a district with a Republican basis, as 16 either or Dallas/Fort Worth would put 17 county -- excuse me -- residents in a district with 18 residents with whom they have no common interests and 19 will result in a significant loss of solid 20 representation. 21 The last point I'll make and I will be 22 finished, redistricting would endanger . 23 Currently, military bases across the State of Texas 24 represent $42 billion a year in income, economic impact 25 to the state. Splitting Bell County representation or

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Page 61 1 moving Bell County into a new Congressional District 2 would endanger the future of Fort Hood. Fort Hood, 3 located in Bell and Coryell counties, is the only 4 two-district post left in the and is 5 currently facing two threats. 6 Secretary of Defense is 7 floating trial balloons about downsizing the military -- 8 excuse me, the Army, into two heavy divisions. Fort 9 Hood is home to them, the 1st Calvary Division and the 10 4th Infantry Division. We have also -- we are also 11 approaching another round of base BRACs or base 12 realignments and closures in 2005. Given the right 13 circumstances, this is an opportunity for Fort Hood to 14 expand its mission. Given the wrong circumstances, it 15 is an opportunity for Fort Hood to lose a division, 16 especially given the Army's recent record of stationing 17 its most modern units in districts of senior members of 18 the House and State Senate Appropriations Committee. 19 For this, we are against the redistricting plan at this 20 time. Thank you. 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 22 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 23 The Chair will now recognize James 24 Rodriguez. Mr. Rodriguez, if you'll state your name and 25 who you're with for the record, please.

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Page 62 1 MR. RODRIGUEZ: Morning, Madam Chair, 2 members of the committee. My name is James Rodriguez. 3 I'm the chief of staff for Councilwoman , 4 District I, City Council, Houston. I am here to read a 5 statement on her behalf and to ask that it be submitted 6 into the record. Thank you. 7 "Members of the committee, I want to 8 express my concern over the proposed GOP Congressional 9 redistricting plan. The current proposal is not good 10 for Texas and is unfair to Hispanics and 11 African-Americans. The proposed redistricting plan does 12 not create any new Hispanic districts. It is my belief 13 that the party leadership is engaging in an unfair, 14 unnecessary and unprecedented process. 15 "Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott 16 issued an opinion stating the legislature is not 17 mandated to act on Congressional redistricting, and the 18 U.S. Supreme Court found that the current court-ordered 19 plan is constitutional. Prior to 2003, no legislature 20 in the country has redrawn Congressional lines in the 21 middle of a decade unless ordered to by a federal court. 22 The is under no such court order. 23 "The proposed Congressional redistricting 24 plan is divisive, costly and not good for Texas. The 25 Texas House has bigger issues before it that need to be

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Page 63 1 addressed before a partisan-driven redistricting plan is 2 taken up. Thank you very much for your time." 3 (Applause) 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 5 questions? Thank you for your testimony, and we will 6 enter that for you. 7 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Madam Chair, 8 while we're waiting, could you recognize me for a 9 question, please? 10 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Sure. 11 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Real quickly, 12 the King DeLay map that we're looking at today, we're 13 taking testimony on that map, I suspect, and on -- 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: No, actually -- 15 actually, Representative Noriega, we are not taking 16 testimony on any specific map, just on Congressional 17 redistricting. Anyone, if they want to reference the 18 map, they can do so; but we're not taking actual 19 testimony on a map, just on Congressional redistricting. 20 But if they want to reference a map, they 21 can reference the two maps that are posted, the one that 22 is the current map that the judiciary proposed, the King 23 map, or any other map that someone has proposed. They 24 can reference any map. 25 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And that's kind

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Page 64 1 of the question I was going to ask of the author. The 2 current DeLay King map that we're looking at, I've 3 received reports that another map was going to be shown 4 like Monday or Tuesday, and perhaps the author might 5 address -- are we going to be looking at another map 6 Monday or Tuesday that's going to roll out? 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I am not advised of 8 that. 9 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Is that the 10 author's intent? 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: What we want to do 12 today is take testimony on Congressional redistricting 13 itself and any comments so that they can be used as far 14 as any alterations to the King map. 15 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 17 recognize Margaret Paul. Margaret? Is Margaret here? 18 The Chair will recognize Regina Flanagan. 19 Is Regina Flanagan here? 20 The Chair will recognize Maureen Jouett, 21 City of Killeen, City Council, Maureen, to testify 22 against Congressional redistricting. 23 MS. JOUETT: Yes. My name is Maureen 24 Jouett. I'm the Mayor of the City of Killeen, and I'm 25 in my fourth year as Mayor. I've brought two

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Page 65 1 Councilmembers with me here today; you've already heard 2 one speak. I'd like to inform the committee that we 3 also have City Councilmembers in Dallas and Nacogdoches 4 today, just as we had representation in Brownsville, 5 San Antonio and Lubbock the other day. That's where I 6 got this sore throat. 7 I have written testimony, but I only made 8 copies, I must apologize, for the committee members. So 9 I made one for the record and one for the committee 10 members. 11 (Audience member brings a bottle of water 12 to Ms. Jouett.) 13 MS. JOUETT: I'm sorry. It won't help, 14 but thank you, bless you. Thanks. 15 The City of Killeen is opposed to any 16 change in its Congressional representation and requests 17 that you leave District 11 intact. We have been 18 successfully represented by our Congressman for 11 years 19 and have been able to grow and prosper largely due to 20 his assistance. 21 Killeen, as you heard Councilmember 22 Wilkerson talk about, is really a unique place. We are 23 the home of Fort Hood, a great place. Our 4th I.D., 24 20,000 soldiers from Fort Hood right now are serving 25 this country in Iraq. Members of the Army consider Fort

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Page 66 1 Hood to be a premier base, largely due to the millions 2 of dollars for infrastructure improvements that our 3 Congressmen and Senators have brought here. 4 Loss of Congressional seniority on 5 military appropriations, to name just one, will 6 adversely affect our community, not to mention, as 7 Councilman Wilkerson talked about -- I'm going to 8 promote him right here -- we're facing the 2005 base 9 realignment and closure. 10 We do not want to be responsible or have 11 the responsibility of losing a base or even a single 12 division at Fort Hood. We don't want that 13 responsibility to be placed on the legislative body of 14 our state. We are also one of the most homogenous 15 communities in the state. A diverse council represents 16 our diverse population, and the voters have chosen the 17 city, state, and federal representation that they want, 18 those that best serve our common interests. 19 And I want to say here that, as I've told 20 you in prior testimony before the end of the last 21 session, that every single person in our voting area is 22 a Republican, with the exception of our County Clerk, 23 who has been there for 50 years, and Congressman that 24 represents us. 25 But I was a mayor for Perry. I recruited

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Page 67 1 other mayors in my communities of interest to support 2 Perry for Governor. I was also a mayor for Dewhurst. 3 You know, that takes political capital. Well, where is 4 the payback? I would like our community to be 5 considered as a whole. 6 (Applause) 7 MS. JOUETT: We share communities of 8 interest with our neighbors in Belton, Florence, 9 Copperas Cove, Salado, Temple, as well as those in the 10 counties of Coryell, McLennan, and parts of Williamson. 11 We've had a long association with all of these except 12 for Williamson, who we received part of their citizens 13 in our last redistricting. But they share common 14 interests as well because a lot of them are retirees 15 from Fort Hood. 16 I want -- I have a clip from our 17 newspaper poll. It says 62.64% of the people who have 18 responded to the poll think this is purely partisan. 19 Now, if you're going to reconsider -- or if you're going 20 to consider redistricting, we have a State 21 Representative, Dianne White Delisi, that I believe is 22 going to propose an amendment that will protect us. 23 But think about the long-term and not the 24 short-term for Bell County as a central part of Central 25 Texas, the fastest growing community in Central Texas.

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Page 68 1 Thank you. 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, do you 3 have any questions? Good to see you again. 4 MS. JOUETT: I'm sorry. As long as 5 you're here, I'll keep coming. I'm going to turn this 6 in. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Yes, if you will 8 turn it in over here to the clerk's table and we will 9 enter it into the record. Thank you. 10 I would like to recognize that 11 Congressman Nick Lampson has just joined us, and would 12 you like -- 13 (Applause) 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 15 Representative Lampson is going to defer till later. 16 The Chair will now recognize James 17 Yarbrough, who is a County Judge from Galveston County 18 to testify against Congressional redistricting. If you 19 will just identify yourself and who you're with for the 20 record. 21 MR. YARBROUGH: I'm Jim Yarbrough, County 22 Judge for Galveston County and a resident of Galveston 23 Island. 24 (Applause) 25 MR. YARBROUGH: I too want to thank you

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Page 69 1 for taking the time out of your schedule to be here to 2 listen to the public. As elected officials, we need to 3 ask ourselves whenever we take on a decision or a 4 project, what good is it for the public? What is the 5 public good being done? And when you talk about 6 redistricting, there is no public good being done in 7 redistricting at this time. 8 (Applause) 9 MR. YARBROUGH: There is no new 10 information. The census data is still the same as it 11 was several years ago. It's raw politics. It's bad for 12 our system. It's bad for our political bodies to 13 continue to divide and separate us along these 14 idealogical Republican and Democratic lines. 15 We need to be coming together and working 16 together for the good of the people. Why are we dealing 17 with redistricting in a special session in June and July 18 when public education funding is deferred till October 19 or November? 20 (Cheering and applause) 21 MR. YARBROUGH: I'm very concerned about 22 Galveston County's minority representation. Under the 23 maps that have been disclosed up till now, it will 24 disenfranchise the minority voters in Galveston County, 25 and that is wrong.

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Page 70 1 (Applause) 2 MR. YARBROUGH: If the Republicans in the 3 majority party have their way, there won't be any need 4 for general elections or anything that is divided by two 5 central districts. The only need for a general election 6 will be for those statewide and county-wide officials. 7 Again, we need to be having competition. 8 Whether it's Democrat or Republican, decisions ought to 9 be made in November. Competition is good. If either 10 party is scared of competition, you ought to get out of 11 the game. We have our elections in November. 12 (Cheering and applause) 13 MR. YARBROUGH: From a selfish 14 perspective, Galveston County, we are well served in the 15 district, the 9th Congressional District. We have 16 communities of interest in Jefferson County, Chambers 17 County, Galveston County. We're ports of entry, we've 18 got miles of Texas coastline, we've got tons of 19 petrochemical business. 20 We share Harris County in our district, 21 the home of . While they are 22 geographically located in Harris County, 60% of the 23 people who work there live in Galveston County. It is 24 difficult enough to represent our district in Congress, 25 but if you spread us out into the districts we've seen,

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Page 71 1 you're going to have not only communities of interest, 2 you're going to have communities of disinterest. 3 You're going to have to elect a 4 Congressperson who can get out there and represent an 5 area who has sometimes diametrically opposed issues on 6 the table. Their communities need to be represented, 7 but our communities that share a common interest, we 8 need to keep the 9th Congressional District intact. So 9 we would be against redistricting at this time. 10 Again, thank you for your time. 11 (Applause) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 13 questions of Mr. Yarbrough? Thank you, Mr. Yarbrough, 14 for your testimony. 15 (Applause) 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 17 recognize Stephen Holmes, who is a County Commissioner 18 from Galveston, to testify against Congressional 19 redistricting. 20 Mr. Holmes, if you will give your name 21 and who you're with for the record, please. 22 MR. HOLMES: Thank you, Madam Chair. My 23 name is Stephen Holmes, Galveston County Commissioner, 24 and as you said it yourself, I'm here to testify against 25 redistricting. From the maps that I have seen earlier,

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Page 72 1 that certainly would be my stance. 2 But I heard the statements earlier, these 3 maps may or may not be the maps that are being proposed. 4 I'm not sure whether I'm for or against, because I don't 5 know what map is going to be displayed. I don't want to 6 be fooled. So there may be a map displayed sometime 7 next week that I would be for, but certainly the current 8 maps I'm not for. 9 The county went through its own 10 redistricting process a couple of years ago, under the 11 United States Constitution, and in that one thing that I 12 did learn was that redistricting was a partisan process, 13 but that process only occurs every 10 years. One thing 14 that is important to Galveston County was that we had 15 public hearings where the public was allowed to give 16 input. These hearings were given much advance notice to 17 everybody in each of the commission's precincts where 18 everybody could come and have an opportunity to be 19 heard. 20 (Applause) 21 MR. HOLMES: And I would reiterate what 22 our county judge stated earlier. Galveston County is 23 well served by being represented by Congressman Nick 24 Lampson in the 9th District. 25 (Cheering and applause)

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Page 73 1 MR. HOLMES: He is our incumbent, and 2 we'd certainly like to keep our incumbent there. We 3 have great communities of interest with the current 4 counties that are also represented in the 9th, Jefferson 5 County, Chambers County; and as the judge stated 6 earlier, the coastal issues, the petrochemical 7 industries, those issues are common interests to 8 Galveston County. 9 And the maps I saw earlier, the counties 10 that would be represented in the 9th would have no 11 interests with Galveston County, and so I would speak 12 strongly against any map that I've seen to this point 13 and urge you against any redistricting process taking 14 place right now. Thank you. 15 (Applause) 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 17 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 18 The Chair will now recognize Richard 19 Young from the City of Killeen, City Councilman, to 20 testify, for, against and neutrally, on Congressional 21 redistricting. If you'll just state your name and who 22 you're with, Mr. Young, thank you. 23 MR. YOUNG: Yes. My name is Richard 24 Young and I'm a City Councilman with the City of 25 Killeen, and I'm here and I want to say thank you, Madam

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Page 74 1 Chair, and members of the committee -- I'm sorry. It's 2 not normally you can't hear me. 3 Thank you for allowing me to speak today. 4 I'm here in support of the resolution that the mayor 5 spoke about from the citizens of Killeen, number 6 202-63R, the date was June 24th, 2003, and its efforts 7 to preserve communities of interest. 8 The Killeen-Fort Hood area is home to the 9 first state veterans cemetery, which will be unveiled in 10 July of this year. We are also home to two university 11 units there that split county lines. The physical 12 county lines go right through the university campus. 13 Fort Hood is the largest employer in the State of Texas. 14 It has the largest payroll in the State of Texas, single 15 payroll. The City of Killeen is the 22nd largest city 16 in the State of Texas. 17 I'm sure that everybody here today is in 18 support of national security, and I think that all 19 efforts must be preserved in this matter of 20 redistricting to preserve the Fort Hood area and all 21 those that are contiguous to it, meaning the counties of 22 Coryell, Bell and McLennan. It's important that we do 23 that so the communities of interest can be preserved. 24 We have one mission there, and that is to 25 serve the Fort Hood military installation. We educate

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Page 75 1 their children. Most of the people who work and serve 2 on Fort Hood live in those areas that I just spoke 3 about, in Bell and Coryell and McLennan County; and to 4 have those split up or represented by two different 5 people would not be serving those citizens' interests. 6 To have someone in Fort Worth trying to tell us what is 7 good for Fort Hood in Central Texas, being 150, 200 8 miles away, 300 miles away, whatever it is, would not 9 be, I believe, in the best interests of those citizens. 10 For over 100 years, the community of 11 interest of McLennan, Bell and Coryell County have been 12 preserved. Many people have sat right where you are 13 today and they've had the opportunity to make those 14 changes and they have not seen fit to, and I don't see 15 any reason to now. 16 Again, I went to Austin to speak in front 17 of your committee. I was not able to speak in front of 18 your committee. The committee ended the last night 19 before we got an opportunity to speak, so I wanted to 20 take this opportunity and drive down this morning to 21 make my views known. When I first looked at the issue, 22 I was undecided, and that was the neutral part. Then I 23 said I was against it. 24 As I've looked at it and decided on my 25 own merits that we are probably going to be faced with

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Page 76 1 some sort of redistricting, it's my intent to try to 2 preserve the majority of the 11th Congressional District 3 as it sits today. It's not a Republican idea, it's not 4 a Democratic idea. I'm talking about the people in 5 Central Texas that need their own Congressional 6 District. That's all I have. Thank you. 7 (Applause) 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: So are you stating 9 that you will look at the issue when you see a map? 10 MR. YOUNG: Yes, ma'am. 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: What your position 12 will be when you see it on the map? 13 MR. YOUNG: Well, we've only seen in the 14 meetings in Austin and since, we've seen about a dozen; 15 and I'd just like to see what's behind door number three 16 before I actually make a decision. 17 (Applause) 18 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: So would we. 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 20 questions? For the record, would you like to be neutral 21 then, at this time? 22 MR. YOUNG: For the record, I would like 23 to be against. 24 (Cheering and applause) 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. Would

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Page 77 1 you mind just signing this for me? I just want to make 2 sure I have the record accurate for where -- if you will 3 circle that and sign it that would be great. Thank you 4 very much. Thank you. 5 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Madam Chair, for 6 the record, I'd like to see the map too. 7 (Applause) 8 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Hey, Phil, 9 where's the map? 10 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 11 recognize Representative King. 12 REPRESENTATIVE KING: Madam Chair, let me 13 answer Rick's response. Redistricting, any member of 14 the House can -- any member of the Texas House or Texas 15 Senate -- 16 AUDIENCE: Can't hear you. 17 REPRESENTATIVE KING: How about this, is 18 that better? 19 With regard to maps or redistricting, any 20 member of the Texas House or the can file a 21 bill or a map on redistricting. There are others that 22 or at least one other that I know of that will be filed; 23 I suspect there will be more than that. 24 This legislation works like any other 25 legislation that is filed. It starts off in committee

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Page 78 1 and it goes through the committee process and it's 2 amended there; and then if it passes out of committee it 3 goes to the floor of the House, where it is usually 4 amended again. It -- then it goes over to the Senate 5 and the Senate takes it up, if they want to, and it is 6 reviewed in a committee there and generally amended; and 7 then it usually goes to the floor of the Senate and 8 usually it's amended there. And then it goes to a 9 conference committee if there's a difference in the 10 House and Senate bills, just like -- and this -- every 11 bill that is filed this session would follow that same 12 process for as long until it was voted down. 13 There -- the map that passed out of 14 committee in the House last time, there were some 15 comments taken on it that were good comments. There 16 were amendments that were going to be offered on the 17 floor. Some of those would have been accepted, some 18 would have been opposed; I don't know how many would 19 have been put on it or not because we never go to that 20 point because we never got to have a full hearing on the 21 floor. 22 However, I've tried to -- I am in the 23 process of trying to adjust the map to reflect some of 24 the concerns that were brought up last time. I know 25 there are other members who are making amendments. I

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Page 79 1 know of at least one who's writing -- who is proposing 2 her own map. So the reason there isn't "a map," what 3 there is is the legislative process and this is the 4 earliest stage in the legislative process. We haven't 5 even gone into session. There will be a bill filed. 6 I don't know how many people will file 7 plans Monday morning, but those will be all referred to 8 committees and they will go through the process and 9 they'll be amended and -- 10 (Audience shouting, unintelligible) 11 REPRESENTATIVE KING: The members on the 12 committee and members of the House that you've elected 13 will very clearly voice their interests and their 14 concerns on every bill that's filed. 15 (Audience shouting, unintelligible) 16 REPRESENTATIVE KING: So, Rick, as you 17 know, there is -- all I can tell you is there is no map 18 other than the one that passed out of committee last 19 time, and -- 20 (Chanting) 21 (Gavel) 22 AUDIENCE: Let us speak! Let us speak! 23 Let us speak, let us speak, let us speak, let us speak, 24 let us speak, let us speak, let us speak, let us speak! 25 REPRESENTATIVE KING: I'm sorry, Madam

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Page 80 1 Chair, I was just trying to respond to Representative 2 Noriega. 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 4 Noriega had a question and Representative King was 5 responding to the question. Do you have a further 6 question? 7 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Well, one thing 8 is, Representative King, what's your timeline you think 9 you're going to have the -- or Congressman DeLay is 10 going to have a new map? 11 (Laughter) 12 REPRESENTATIVE KING: I think I answered 13 that I'm going to try to file a bill Monday morning, and 14 I suspect there will be -- 15 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: If you file a 16 bill, you've got a product, perhaps. 17 REPRESENTATIVE KING: I do not have a 18 product yet. 19 (Audience shouting, unintelligible) 20 REPRESENTATIVE KING: Rick, you can file 21 a bill. 22 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I object to the 23 process. Even the governor objected to the process in 24 several of his statements throughout the press since 25 2001.

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Page 81 1 But nonetheless, Madam Chair, on another 2 note, the doors have been locked and the witnesses -- no 3 one else is allowed in the room now. There are no 4 Witness Affirmation Forms outside the room if other 5 persons wish to testify; but no one else is being 6 allowed in here at this time, and perhaps if the Chair 7 could address that. 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Shall we check and 9 see, it might be a problem with the fire code. Let's 10 check and see what the problem is. 11 (Audience shouting, unintelligible) 12 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Madam Chair? 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Yes. 14 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Madam Chair and 15 members of the audience, I think let's appreciate 16 Mr. Noriega bringing that to the committee's attention. 17 If we could at least get some forms out there until we 18 solve the problem on why the doors have been locked, it 19 does look like it may be -- by just viewing the 20 audience, it may be a capacity problem. But Madam Chair 21 could we get some at least get forms out there? 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Yes. And let me 23 clarify that. The doors are not locked. The doors are 24 not locked. This door is for elected officials to come 25 in. The doors on the top are open. They are not

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Page 82 1 locked, so that is not accurate, and we will -- there 2 are witness affirmations. 3 All right, let's move on. The Chair will 4 now recognize Johnny Matz to tes-- 5 MR. MATA: Johnny Mata. 6 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I'm sorry. I'm 7 sorry, I couldn't read, could not -- I could not read 8 the handwriting. Johnny Mata, who is here to testify 9 against Congressional redistricting. 10 Mr. Mata, if you will give us your name 11 and who you're with for the record. 12 MR. MATA: I am Johnny Mata, and I'm 13 representing LULAC. And Madam Chair, you did not offend 14 me. I got more offended when y'all wanted to do 15 redistricting. 16 (Cheering) 17 MR. MATA: I'm here on behalf of LULAC 18 District 8, which encompasses 12 counties which includes 19 Angelina, Brazoria, Fort Bend, Galveston, Harris, 20 Montgomery, Waller, and many others. I'd rather save my 21 time for the testimony. 22 We want to thank the committee for 23 allowing us to provide testimony today. The quality of 24 Texas residents from all walks of life have been 25 shattered by some ambitious legislators and special

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Page 83 1 interest groups who are determined to redraw maps that 2 have already been precleared through the U.S. Department 3 of Justice as abiding by all provisions of the 1965 4 Voting Rights Act as amended. The existence of 5 Congressional districts have been reviewed and upheld by 6 the U.S. Supreme Court, and in fact when an election 7 cycle has already been successfully conducted by using 8 these particular maps. 9 The League of United Latin American 10 Citizens, LULAC, the nation's oldest and largest 11 Hispanic civil rights organization, scheduled news 12 conferences throughout Texas on Wednesday, June the 13 25th, to announce that it has launched a statewide 14 campaign to protest changing Congressional districts in 15 Texas until the next census. 16 (Applause) 17 MR. MATA: State Attorney General Greg 18 Abbott advised the legislature that there is no mandate, 19 directive or responsibility to redraw Congressional 20 lines. Given these circumstances, we urge the members 21 of the legislature to leave the issue alone and move on 22 to more urgency policy issues. 23 (Applause) 24 MR. MATA: Our opposition to the Texas 25 Legislature redrawing our state Congressional lines

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Page 84 1 comes from the fact that redistricting is among the most 2 partisan and divisive issues that have ever come before 3 the legislature. We believe that efforts to redraw 4 lines will divide the legislature along party lines, as 5 well as ethnic and racial lines. 6 Hispanics believe it is very hypocritical 7 for Texas Republicans, Republicans who promise on one 8 hand that redistricting will include another Hispanic 9 seat, while on the other hand Republicans may lose their 10 only Hispanic Republican Congressman in the 11 redistricting plan that's designed to increase the GOP's 12 share of the state Congressional delegation, according 13 to some of your legislative committees. 14 Also, Chairman Joe Crabb, Republican from 15 Houston, angered Hispanics during the regular session by 16 saying public hearings could not be held in 17 because not everyone on the committee spoke Spanish -- 18 (Booing from audience) 19 MR. MATA: -- demonstrated a lack of 20 understanding and disrespect to our community as well as 21 trying to impose new -- as well as trying to impose new 22 Congressionals. 23 It is also alleged that the GOP is trying 24 to sweeten the pot by using the medical school funding 25 to pressure border legislators to vote for the

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Page 85 1 redistricting, somebody that should have been taken care 2 of years ago, because people in South Texas need medical 3 attention as well. 4 The majority community should be grateful 5 for the legislature -- grateful for the action of some 6 political power-hungry legislators and special groups 7 that are the driving force behind this preposterous 8 redistricting notion, because it comes at a time when 9 people of color have begun forming empowerment 10 coalitions to enhance better legislation and 11 participation, consumer purchasing power, changes in our 12 criminal justice system, and solutions to the 13 educational dilemma that is faced after the 78th 14 Legislature in an attempt to level the playing field. 15 I do not believe that this attempt to 16 change the political landscape of Texas -- I'm sorry. 17 Rather, I do believe that this attempt to change the 18 political landscape of Texas has only energized and 19 placed our coalition effort on a . No longer 20 will we allow our communities to be fooled by those who 21 seek our votes based solely on their and not 22 through their proven performance on the issues which 23 affect millions of Hispanics and other citizens of 24 Texas. 25 That is why we believe that the interests

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Page 86 1 of the Hispanic community in Texas, as well as the 2 nation, are best served by leaving current Congressional 3 districts in place. That was the statement by our state 4 director in her statement -- her news release. 5 Today we put Texas officials on notice: 6 Our membership is united, resolved, and ready to 7 vigorously fight any attempts to undo the progress for 8 Hispanics in Texas. 9 And I want to thank you for this. And I 10 will say that if even you, State Representative, if you 11 intend to file a bill, if you haven't heard enough from 12 here and the disruption in South Texas, I guess we'll 13 have to have a tornado before you'll change your mind. 14 Thank you. 15 (Cheering and applause) 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Questions? We do 17 have some questions. 18 MR. MATA: And I'm submitting this. 19 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Mr. Mata, real 20 quick, just a quick question. 21 MR. MATA: Sure. 22 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I was listening 23 to your remarks about resolve and so forth and relying 24 on the issue. For the first time in the state LULAC's 25 history, y'all are coming out with a scorecard on issues

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Page 87 1 as well that relates to Hispanic issues, are you not? 2 MR. MATA: Yes. We had a legislative 3 agenda that we presented and worked in the 4 legislation -- 5 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And so like 6 myself, I'll get a grade, Representative Talton will get 7 a grade, Representative Luna, Representative Wilson. 8 MR. MATA: Every legislator in Texas. 9 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Will get a grade 10 of how members vote on Hispanic issues. Is that 11 correct? 12 MR. MATA: That is correct. 13 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Now, will this 14 issue be added? 15 MR. MATA: Most certainly. 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 17 (Applause) 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. Any 19 other questions? Thank you for your testimony. 20 MR. MATA: Thank you. 21 (Applause) 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 23 recognize Sylvia Brooks with the Houston Area Urban 24 League to testify against Congressional redistricting. 25 If you'll just give us your name and who you're with for

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Page 88 1 the record. 2 MS. BROOKS: I'm Sylvia Brooks, and I'm 3 president of the Houston Area Urban League. I come to 4 speak to you as a resident and homeowner in the 18th 5 Congressional District, as the president of a nonprofit 6 also located in the 18th Congressional District; and 7 finally, as a Texan and taxpayer. 8 As a resident and longtime homeowner and 9 supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voter Rights Act 10 and affirmative action, I am perplexed as to why the 11 State of Texas is engaging in a redistricting process at 12 this time. Has it been 10 years since we last 13 redistricted? Wasn't the 18th Congressional District 14 created as a result of the Voting Rights Act? If so, 15 why would our state legislature involve itself in 16 altering a district that was designed out of this act 17 and probably would not survive a legal challenge? 18 As a president of a nonprofit located in 19 the 18th Congressional District and understanding its 20 history and significance, I have seen the benefits of 21 the work and resources brought to to this district as 22 intended through the efforts of Barbara Jordan, Mickey 23 Leland, and our current, current 24 Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. 25 Of the 100,000 Texans served by the

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Page 89 1 Houston Area Urban League, over half of them live in 2 this district. It is important that a district such as 3 this exists in efforts to better serve the many 4 underserved minorities in this region. All of the 5 aforementioned leaders have served with distinction, 6 understood the needs of their constituents and were 7 successful in helping to meet those needs. 8 Finally, as a Texan and taxpayer watching 9 from some distance, I find it rather obscene to see our 10 legislators turn their backs on the economically 11 disadvantaged and reduce the state budgeted allocations 12 in education, Medicaid, CHIPs, the elderly and disabled, 13 to those in need of alcohol and drug treatment; many of 14 these Texans are represented in this district. You are 15 spending an estimated what, $7 million that could have 16 been directed to those services on a special session 17 called by the governor -- 18 (Applause) 19 MS. BROOKS: -- but orchestrated from 20 afar. It makes no sense. I'm asking those legislators 21 represented here to rethink your priorities, redirect 22 this special session from redistricting for the right 23 reasons. Our children, our elderly and disabled, our 24 economically disadvantaged of Texas, that is the way I 25 would like to see you use my tax dollars. Thank you.

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Page 90 1 (Loud applause) 2 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Any questions of 3 Ms. Brooks, members? If not, then our next witness will 4 be Gary Bledsoe from NAACP. Mr. Bledsoe? 5 (Applause) 6 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Mr. Bledsoe is 7 testifying against redistricting. 8 MR. BLEDSOE: Thank you. Thank you very 9 much for spending your time in being here today. 10 AUDIENCE: Can't hear you. 11 MR. BLEDSOE: My name is Gary Bledsoe. 12 I'm the president of the Texas NAACP. I'm also a 13 national board member of the NAACP, and I'm here today 14 not just representing the Texas NAACP, I'm also 15 representing the national office of the NAACP. I've 16 spoken this week with President Mfume, and the national 17 NAACP has grave concerns about what is happening in 18 Texas. I do have some written testimony to provide to 19 you; and if you will bear with me, I'll go through that 20 written testimony. 21 I would like to mention, however, one 22 thing that's not discussed in the written testimony is 23 this week the United States Supreme Court handed down an 24 opinion that I think clearly supports the position of 25 the main thesis of my testimony that you will be hearing

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Page 91 1 later, and that is that impact districts are protected. 2 I am very concerned that the previous map 3 that was tendered in this matter seemed to exile 4 African-American voters in many areas around the state, 5 taking them out of districts where they had forged 6 majorities and been able to elect people that supported 7 the NAACP agenda, and taking those individuals and moved 8 them into areas where individuals had voted against the 9 NAACP agenda. 10 And we've got a very broad and a very 11 important agenda and it's not about party, it's not 12 about anything other than advancing the interests of the 13 minority and underprivileged citizens of this country. 14 The Texas NAACP opposes efforts to 15 revisit Congressional districts in the State of Texas. 16 The NAACP is a nonpartisan organization that looks to 17 advance the interests of those such as African-Americans 18 who are required to confront invidious and unwarranted 19 discrimination. That is why we wish to work with 20 individuals in both political parties in advancing these 21 interests. 22 However, we are aware that it has been 23 reported that one of the primary moving forces behind 24 these efforts is House Majority Leader Tom DeLay of 25 Texas. Mr. DeLay has received an F on the NAACP

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Page 92 1 Congressional report card each year for quite some time. 2 (Applause and booing from audience) 3 MR. BLEDSOE: In the past, he has voted 4 against numerous important African-American issues, 5 including election reform and other important electoral 6 matters. This causes us to have questions regarding 7 these efforts. During the last round of litigation, the 8 Texas NAACP supported efforts by Attorney General John 9 Cornyn and Judge Morris Overstreet to create a third 10 African-American Congressional seat for the State of 11 Texas. Both John Cornyn and Judge Overstreet drew up 12 districts that joined Fort Bend with parts of Harris 13 County, the main idea being to gain an African-American 14 seat. However, the courts rejected those proposals. 15 We were concerned with proposals by 16 others in the litigation that proposed a third district 17 to provide an additional African-American seat which 18 would run afoul of the Constitution. This indeed is a 19 problem that would be seen with the proposed third 20 district that was proposed by Mr. DeLay. We see this as 21 fool's gold in many ways, because I think as we know 22 before, when the 18th and 30th were drawn up in 1991, 23 that there was a challenge of the 18th and the 30th and 24 it was a successful challenge and the court required 25 that both those be redrawn.

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Page 93 1 So if we get a third seat and that third 2 seat is redrawn in such a manner as to be in violation 3 of the Constitution, then we'll be right back where we 4 started. And so it's really like fool's gold if you 5 have an elongated, irregularly shaped odd district that 6 violates all the traditional redistricting principles. 7 Now, our concern is that indeed this 8 makes it real, the fact that it has occurred one time. 9 You don't have to challenge the whole map. There can be 10 some individual who doesn't share the opinion of there 11 being a third African-American seat that could challenge 12 that seat successfully. 13 We also have a concern that it would tend 14 to make minorities all of one party. It appears here 15 that the effort is to make all representatives of the 16 Democratic Party representatives of color and all 17 representatives of the Republican Party white, and we 18 think this is a divisive -- 19 (Applause) 20 MR. BLEDSOE: We think this is clearly 21 divisive and ultimately leads to more division of 22 individuals. 23 The process that took place last session 24 caused us to have great concern because we felt that a 25 number of the normal redistricting principles were

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Page 94 1 violated. Districts were not compacted. Many 2 communities were split while others were separated, as 3 with the 18th in Houston. Incompetency was disregarded 4 in many instances, and the interests of nonvoters under 5 the Voting Rights Act were compromised. 6 We believe the traditional redistricting 7 principles that should be complied with include the 8 following: Compactness, contiguity, preservation of 9 counties and political subdivisions, preservation of 10 communities of interest, preservation of cores of prior 11 districts, protection of incumbents, and compliance with 12 Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act. 13 The decision of the annotated Supreme 14 Court seemed to make racial gerrymandering one of the 15 biggest areas of concern when these principles aren't 16 followed. In this regard, we are very concerned with 17 the previous plan from the past legislative section and 18 believe that the plan does engage in racial 19 gerrymandering. African-American voters in the plan 20 were removed from districts of the following 21 Congresspersons that generally support NAACP issues: 22 Edwards, Frost, Green, Rodriguez, and Lampson. 23 Likewise, African-American voters were 24 placed in the districts of the following Congresspersons 25 that have been generally been hostile to NAACP issues:

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Page 95 1 Barton, Bonilla, Brady, Granger, Paul, Smith, and 2 Stenholm, who received a D. This results from 3 redistricting. 4 African-Americans have been able to forge 5 coalitions and elect the persons of their choice and 6 should not be placed into districts with voters who are 7 hostile to them or who vote consistently different from 8 them. 9 (Applause) 10 MR. BLEDSOE: African-Americans should 11 not be placed into districts of Congresspersons who have 12 consistently voted against issues of concern to the 13 NAACP. 14 Thirdly, communities of interest should 15 be kept intact, and communities of interest should be 16 joined together whenever possible in order to maximize 17 the import of the Voting Rights Act. All minority 18 districts should comply with the redistricting 19 principles if they're drawn. Minorities and whites 20 should not be divided so as to ultimately divide our 21 state. The Voting Rights Act must be adhered to and the 22 14th Amendment must be adhered to as well in light of 23 sustaining the rights of individuals as required by 24 Baker vs. Carr and Miller vs. Sims and other such cases. 25 Districts should not be drawn now or in

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Page 96 1 the future just to pit African-Americans against 2 Hispanic Americans, as we see with the proposed district 3 in District 30 in Dallas, Congresswoman Johnson's 4 District. We think that is clearly problematic and 5 there is no need to pit African-Americans against 6 Hispanics, our traditional allies. Since District 18 7 and 30 were approved under the Voting Rights Act, our 8 position is this: If any plan comes out that in any way 9 undermines or minimizes the impact of African-American 10 voters in those districts, whether it be because of 11 adding brown voters to make African-American voters in 12 the minority or white voters to reduce the numbers of 13 African-American voters, we think that is retrogression. 14 The Department of Justice supported that 15 position last time, and I can let you -- I'd like to let 16 everyone know that we will proceed with that assumption 17 if there is any such plan that affects the 18th or the 18 30th. 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative King 20 has a question. 21 MR. BLEDSOE: I will give my written 22 testimony otherwise. Thank you very much. 23 (Applause) 24 REPRESENTATIVE KING: There was a Supreme 25 Court -- I found out late last night, the Supreme Court

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Page 97 1 came out with a case out of Georgia on redistricting, 2 and I haven't had a chance to read it yet or get it, but 3 I've had two or three different lawyers give me two or 4 three different opinions as to what it means. Have you 5 had a chance or has anybody briefed you on that? 6 MR. BLEDSOE: I think the dean has -- he 7 actually has the case here; and it's my understanding 8 that it does support my position, and that is that race 9 is indeed a legitimate factor to be used in drawing up 10 districts, but also that African-Americans who are not a 11 majority in a Congressional District also have 12 protection under the Voting Rights Act, which is 13 something that's very clear. So that's our position, 14 we're talking about African-Americans in Waco or Killeen 15 or Austin or Fort Worth, which are all hostile 16 districts. 17 REPRESENTATIVE KING: Could I ask, if you 18 would not object -- I know y'all probably haven't had 19 time to go through it too in great detail -- but if 20 y'all would not mind submitting to the committee 21 sometime in the next week your read on that case so that 22 we can understand, after you've had time to analyze it. 23 I would appreciate that. 24 MR. BLEDSOE: Sure. We'll send you a 25 brief or memo or our position on what it says.

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Page 98 1 REPRESENTATIVE KING: That would be 2 great, thank you. 3 MR. BLEDSOE: I'll send it to the Capitol 4 office. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 6 Wilson. 7 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Thank you. 8 Mr. President, we went through this process I guess a 9 few years ago and we were in federal court. At that 10 time, did you not, on behalf of NAACP, submit a plan, at 11 least in Houston, that showed the possibility of 12 electing two African-Americans to the U.S. Congress? 13 MR. BLEDSOE: That is correct. We 14 submitted a plan or we -- and we embraced other plans. 15 Attorney General Cornyn and Judge Morris Overstreet had 16 put together plans where the 25th, which is represented 17 by Chris Bell, would have had actually 20% more 18 African-American voters than what it has now and clearly 19 was a district that could have been won by an 20 African-American, and that was the seat that was not 21 accepted by the three-judge panel. 22 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: But that in fact 23 did not have the long finger on it that this other 24 district that was presented to us and it ran to 25 Beaumont. It in fact was compact and contiguous, I

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Page 99 1 think, in the southern part of Harris County, was it 2 not? 3 MR. BLEDSOE: Yeah, but it did not run 4 afoul of the Constitution. We would not have supported 5 it if it did. 6 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Thank you. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 8 Luna? 9 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Mr. President, I 10 just began to read the opinion, and I hope that you will 11 share with us. But I think that the court, O'Connor's 12 majority opinion -- I think there are altogether four 13 different or five different justices ended up writing of 14 their dissent. 15 But she makes a point of talking about 16 majority minority districts, the majority districts 17 which are either African-American or Hispanic, and then 18 the minority influenced districts, which you alluded to. 19 So when you go through your analysis, it would be very 20 helpful if you would give us y'all's position on -- I 21 guess I'm looking at the big picture. I'd like you to 22 focus on this point as well. It would be helpful to me 23 in some information I've been trying to gather. 24 Then if there is an opportunity to create 25 a minority district, but by doing so we split

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Page 100 1 communities of interest, can you, right now, address 2 what your opinion is on how to do we balance that? 3 We've got a community of interest -- an example might be 4 along the border, where there is clearly a very well 5 defined and established community of interest, a county 6 that has, in its own county lines, 559,000 population, 7 so almost enough, just short of what we need for one 8 Congressional District -- yet that population down there 9 is probably over 85% Hispanic in that situation. 10 How do you balance not packing or drawing 11 a district down there which then perhaps would influence 12 the surrounding districts, or how you could split that 13 population maybe to go into different areas versus the 14 either retrogression of an Article 2 voter dilution kind 15 of attack? How do you balance the community of interest 16 scores with the other factors? 17 MR. BLEDSOE: Of course that's -- we have 18 some unique circumstances here. I think traditionally 19 speaking -- and I think Dean Braden can correct me if 20 this is incorrect -- but if the courts have said you're 21 creating a minority district under the Voting Rights 22 Act, that pretty much primary or prima consideration. 23 But those cases really do not address the issue where 24 drawing that district has caused the disadvantage of 25 other minorities to lose their rights or their interests

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Page 101 1 under the Voting Rights Act. 2 Traditionally, when that's occurred, it's 3 simply been a situation where there might have been 4 disgruntled white voters outside the district, but not 5 minority voters. In this situation, if it's not done 6 correctly, you might end up with disgruntled minority 7 voters and it might lead to a different conclusion. 8 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Okay. And I guess 9 long-term, would it be your opinion that then when we 10 make the final analysis, do you look at the entire map, 11 or -- when you want to make an overall analysis of 12 whether there has been retrogression, for example, do 13 you look at the entire map that's been drawn for the 14 entire State of Texas, or do you do an analysis district 15 by district? 16 MR. BLEDSOE: It's our position that 17 we're going to look at the entire map. I know that may 18 be a bone of contention with others; but of course the 19 way that we see it, it's clear that we're looking at 20 votes, and we're not looking at parties or anything 21 along those lines. You know, if we were up north and 22 there was a John Scheffey or someone like that that 23 needed protection that's appropriate, whether he 24 happened to be Republican or our inspector, we'd be 25 saying that. The question is whether you support our

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Page 102 1 issues, and that's what's important. 2 What we see here is that the interests of 3 the NAACP and African-American and other minority 4 citizens will be greatly disadvantaged by the map that 5 was tendered during the legislative session, because 6 effectively you might add one or two black or brown 7 votes but you lose other votes that vote with you in the 8 Congress. And the Congress is so splintered right now, 9 it's important for the NAACP to forge a coalition as 10 best it can. So we have to look at the whole map and 11 the whole Texas delegation. 12 I would say, and let me just mention, if 13 one reads the three-judge panel, the opinion that the 14 three-judge panel wrote, they say very clearly that 15 "We're drawing up 20 seats to be Republican seats, 12 16 seats to be Democratic seats." That's actually stated 17 in the opinion. 18 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: And I guess my 19 final question is, and I think this is a factor that a 20 lot of times, when we get down to this point, especially 21 in making an analysis regarding the entire map, would 22 you agree that you've got to look at more than just 23 total population numbers, you've got to look at voting 24 age population? Does the NAACP take that position? 25 MR. BLEDSOE: That's a good question. I

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Page 103 1 think it would be an extreme disadvantage, of course, to 2 the Hispanic community. I think it would be 3 problematic. You have to look at the total population. 4 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Thank you. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 6 Wilson? 7 REPRESENTATIVE WILSON: Thank you. 8 Mr. Bledsoe, isn't it also true that just because you 9 have a majority minority population Congressional 10 District, there is no certainty that that district will 11 elect a minority to go to Congress? And I give Gene 12 Green's district as the example. It is majority 13 Hispanic, but they decided to elect Gene Green to go to 14 Congress and they're quite comfortable with him and he's 15 been there for a long time. 16 Isn't it true also that -- right now 17 there are a number of African-Americans who are in Tom 18 DeLay's district. My question is, from the NAACP 19 standpoint, wouldn't they be better served being in a 20 district that Chris Bell is in rather than Tom DeLay's? 21 MR. BLEDSOE: Well, there's no question 22 about it. Of course, quite naturally, when you do 23 redistricting, there are going to have to be some 24 African-Americans that are going to have to be in those 25 districts anyway.

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Page 104 1 I think that the problem, when you look 2 at Gene Green's seat, for example, I think that's what 3 Representative Luna was getting at, because it depends 4 on how you define the requisite numbers, because if the 5 individuals that matter are not eligible to vote, you 6 know, not registered to vote, not of the right age to 7 vote, you can draw up a district as 70% Hispanic but 8 when you get real and you down to who can actually vote, 9 it may be 35%, and so it's not a majority Hispanic 10 district. 11 So you have to really look at the 12 realistic number, and the realistic number would be the 13 number of people that can effect the process and not the 14 individuals happen to be of one race or another. Thank 15 you. 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any other 17 questions? Representative Noriega? 18 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Mr. President, 19 one quick question and that is alluding to a remark that 20 you just made, two things. One is the scenario that was 21 just mentioned about bringing in those voters in Fort 22 Bend County, that in effect was the plan that yourself 23 and Judge Overstreet had submitted the last time that 24 was disapproved, wasn't it? 25 MR. BLEDSOE: That's correct.

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Page 105 1 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Okay. Secondly, 2 as it applies to a question I was going to ask, the 3 three-judge panel that wrote the remarks that they were 4 drawing a 20-person Republican state map, now, that 5 somewhat then dismisses the premise that the driver of 6 this whole thing and why we're spending this taxpayer 7 money and all these people are here on a Saturday is 8 because the voters decided something different. Is that 9 correct? 10 MR. BLEDSOE: Well, I think that's true, 11 and I think what we also see is that in those areas 12 where -- which I think would be changed under the 13 proposed map, you have African-American voters, and I 14 think Hispanic voters in some of those areas as well, 15 who have been able to join with like-minded white voters 16 to forge a coalition. 17 Let's take ' district, for 18 example, where they forged a coalition to be able to 19 elect a person of their choice. It's our position that 20 that's a protected seat, because if you exile and take 21 the individuals out of that seat and then you put them 22 into an area where they're not going to be able to get 23 that kind of service, someone is not going to vote in 24 their interests, then you're really denying them 25 protection that they've already been given or provided

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Page 106 1 under the Voting Rights Act, and there's got to be a 2 reason. 3 You know, the way I see it, when you look 4 at what the courts say are the traditional redistricting 5 principles, there's got to be a reason to go to 6 redistricting. And the reasons that I laid out in the 7 written testimony, none of those reasons apply in this 8 context. 9 (Applause) 10 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any other 11 questions? Mr. Bledsoe, thank you for your testimony. 12 MR. BLEDSOE: Thank you, Madam Chairman. 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 14 recognize -- 15 (Cheering and applause) 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: -- who is here from 17 the city, from the City of Houston, to testify against 18 Congressional redistricting. She's coming. She's 19 coming. 20 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: She's stuck in Tom's 21 DeLay. 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If you'll just give 23 us your name and who you're with for the record, please. 24 MS. PARKER: Councilmember Annise Parker, 25 City of Houston, and I'm here as a private citizen and a

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Page 107 1 concerned citizen of Houston. And let me apologize for 2 the delay in coming down. Obviously there's a lot of 3 interest in this, so we have a standing-room-only crowd. 4 As an individual, I want to say that I am 5 absolutely opposed to the redistricting maps I have 6 seen. I am opposed to the expense of redistricting, the 7 disruption of redistricting. 8 But as a Councilmember, as I see the City 9 of Houston splintered and split and spread into 10 districts, literally spread all over Texas, I can see 11 nothing but problems for city issues, city local 12 control, and I would urge you to reject redistricting 13 plans for our Congressional delegation. 14 That's all I have to say, short and 15 sweet, thank you very much. 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 17 Ms. Parker. 18 (Cheering and applause) 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you for your 20 testimony. 21 The Chair will now recognize Pat Gandy to 22 testify against Congressional redistricting. For the 23 record, if you'll just state your name and who you're 24 with. 25 MS. GANDY: My name is Pat Gandy, and I'm

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Page 108 1 an officer of a nonprofit organization that depends on 2 not only the largesse of individual donors but sometimes 3 we need things that governments grant, and therefore we 4 have some input into the system. I'm speaking also as a 5 private citizen and a long-time political and community 6 activist in the Heights-Montrose area. Under one of the 7 plans introduced, that area will be asundered into a 8 district in which it has absolutely no community of 9 interest. 10 I appreciate what Mr. King was saying 11 about maps and not being able to have one; but, you 12 know, you're speaking here -- you folks that don't know 13 some of us -- to a very sophisticated audience. 14 (Applause) 15 MS. GANDY: And we understand how 16 redistricting is done. I myself have a master's degree 17 in political science and have taught it, as well as 18 other things. You can't just make amendments to bills 19 on the floor of the legislature and then go on and pass 20 them just because somebody up and makes an amendment. 21 It's not done that way, and we know it isn't done that 22 way! 23 (Cheering and applause) 24 MS. GANDY: So don't -- don't look down 25 upon us and tell us that we -- that we just have the

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Page 109 1 wrong idea, because we don't, Mr. King. We have the 2 right idea. It is an egregious power grab on behalf of 3 Tom DeLay, and it is nothing more than that. 4 (Applause) 5 (Man in audience booing) 6 MS. GANDY: Number two, besides the 7 community of interest situation, which it's not only 8 interests in the district I live in, which is the 18th, 9 not only is it -- would it be asundered into all sorts 10 of areas, but other districts throughout the state, as 11 numerous people time after time have told you; and that 12 is definitely not something that is ever done. 13 Everybody else has also mentioned the 14 fact that redistricting is usually not done unless it's 15 court ordered. Well, there has to be a reason for this, 16 and we, most of us, are also sophisticated enough to 17 understand that there is a really decided push to get as 18 many votes for people who want regressive politics in 19 this country. 20 (Applause) 21 MS. GANDY: As a matter of fact, the 18th 22 District itself was decided by a court here in Houston, 23 or wherever it was, but that was because the legislature 24 did not agree. Okay. Well, that's how it's done in 25 this country. We have a process, you know. Some of you

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Page 110 1 folks -- 2 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Read the Constitution! 3 MS. GANDY: -- are elected by the court 4 systems, but it isn't all right to let us keep the 5 districts that a court system decided for us? And I'm 6 sure some of you thought maybe Congressman DeLay was one 7 of them. That, well, he would put Sheila Jackson Lee in 8 with a bunch of folks and they would just vote her out. 9 Well, you know what? She has a bigger majority now than 10 she did before. 11 (Cheering and applause) 12 MS. GANDY: Not all of us in the State of 13 Texas are people who pander to right-wing bigots. 14 (Loud applause) 15 (Man in audience booing) 16 MS. GANDY: Not all of us are racists who 17 try to pander to get folks to come to hearings like this 18 in North Texas on the basis of printing a Congress -- an 19 African-American Congresswoman's picture on the e-mail, 20 you know, saying she is going to be there. They don't 21 know who she is. And I think my Congresswoman Lee spoke 22 eloquently to the press in Washington. But that's 23 foolishness. 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Ms. Gandy -- 25 MS. GANDY: I'm not through.

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Page 111 1 (Applause) 2 MS. GANDY: That -- again, Madam 3 Chairman, is one of the reasons that -- one of the 4 reasons why you folks don't get it is because you don't 5 believe that anybody has a minority interest. Now, if 6 y'all want to win the governorship -- 7 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Turn off the 8 microphone! 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Are there 10 questions? 11 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Keep talking. 12 MS. GANDY: We oppose this. Do not tell 13 us that you don't have a map. 14 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Sit down. 15 MS. GANDY: That is so ridiculous that 16 it's not even funny. 17 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Let her speak! 18 AUDIENCE: Let her speak! Let her speak! 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Ms. Gandy -- 20 MS. GANDY: And I'd like to add one more 21 thing and then I will sit down, and that is don't tell 22 me that -- the doors may not be locked, but you have it 23 fixed so that persons who are handicapped cannot come in 24 and register to speak. 25 (Applause)

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Page 112 1 MS. GANDY: That is a fact and I know it 2 is a fact, because someone with me was denied access 3 because that door is blocked. That is a violation of 4 law. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: We will not deny 6 access to anyone, Ms. Gandy. Thank you for your 7 testimony. 8 MS. GANDY: Well, how are they gonna get 9 in? We were not allowed to let her in. Would you like 10 to tell me how she can get in? 11 AUDIENCE: Answer! 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If she wants 13 access, we will get her in. Thank you. Thank you for 14 your testimony. 15 MS. GANDY: Who is going to see to that? 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair is now 17 going to recognize Tony Buzbee -- 18 (Applause) 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: -- against 20 Congressional redistricting. Mr. Buzbee, if you will 21 just state your name and who you're with for the record, 22 please. 23 MR. BUZBEE: I'm Tony Buzbee. I'm the 24 Galveston County Democratic Party Chair. 25 (Applause)

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Page 113 1 MR. BUZBEE: And that's a hard act to 2 follow. 3 I'm here as a citizen, as a Democrat, as 4 a Desert Storm veteran, as a Marine, as a father of four 5 children, and as a member of the United States, a 6 citizen. And I came here to talk, and I thank you all 7 for listening, but I get the feeling that everything we 8 say here today is pretty much in vain, that -- 9 (Light applause) 10 MR. BUZBEE: That the decision has 11 already been made by someone who isn't here. I haven't 12 seen Mr. DeLay here today. 13 (Applause) 14 MR. BUZBEE: And that nothing we say make 15 a hill of beans. But I speak anyway, because there's 16 some things that need to be said, and I intend to say 17 them. Special sessions are reserved for emergencies. 18 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Yes. 19 MR. BUZBEE: Partisanship, one-upsmanship 20 is not an emergency. 21 (Applause) 22 MR. BUZBEE: As a Texan, I am offended 23 that Washington, D.C. is driving our local Texas 24 politics. 25 (Applause)

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Page 114 1 MR. BUZBEE: And, Mr. King, you gave a 2 very eloquent rendition of why we do not have maps. 3 Sir, I respectfully reject that. There is a map, 4 there's a map somewhere; you just will not show it to 5 us, sir. And we would like to see it. 6 (Applause) 7 MR. BUZBEE: We would like to see the 8 map. And when there are rumors -- 9 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Where is the map? 10 MR. BUZBEE: We want to see the map! 11 MAN IN AUDIENCE: We want to see the map! 12 MR. BUZBEE: And how can we comment on 13 redistricting when there is a map hidden somewhere that 14 you won't let us see? 15 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Where is the map? 16 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Show us the map! 17 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Where's the map. 18 MR. BUZBEE: As citizens and elected 19 representatives, I know that you folks care about what 20 you're doing, and I know that when you were sworn in for 21 office you did so, I'm sure, with the utmost sincerity. 22 And I ask you to look across the auditorium here and 23 look at the people who oppose your actions, and I ask 24 you to reassess and perhaps reconsider the decision that 25 I believe you've already made.

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Page 115 1 (Applause) 2 MR. BUZBEE: As a father of four children 3 who are in the public school system, I can tell you we 4 have an emergency. We have an emergency in our public 5 schools, and I ask you to do something about it. 6 (Applause) 7 MR. BUZBEE: But again, I think 8 everything I say here is in vain, and it's inevitable 9 that you will do what you're going to do. But thank you 10 anyway for allowing me to speak. 11 (Applause) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, do you 13 have any questions? Representative Noriega. 14 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Captain Buzbee, 15 I just want to ask you a real quick question. Were you 16 aware that in July 12th of 2001, the Fort Worth 17 Star-Telegram quoted, "Critics blame Texas Governor Rick 18 Perry for dumping Congressional redistricting in the 19 federal courts by refusing to call a special legislative 20 session. Perry said it would be a waste of taxpayers' 21 money." On July 12th of 2000, are you aware of that? 22 MR. BUZBEE: I am aware of that, thank 23 you. 24 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Were you aware 25 in the Austin American-Statesman, in the same month,

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Page 116 1 "Perry's choice is to call a special session or let the 2 matter go straight to the courts. Not hard. After 3 going through the motions of talking to legislative 4 leaders, Perry said July 3rd that he'd leave it to the 5 courts, where the plans were already certain to be 6 inspected anyway." Were you aware of that? 7 MR. BUZBEE: I am, sir, and I'm also 8 aware that the courts did in fact draw the lines and 9 those were upheld; yet here we are again wasting $1.7 10 million of very hard-earned money. 11 (Applause) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any other 13 questions? Thank you. 14 The Chair will now recognize Ruben Davis, 15 Constable from Fort Bend County, to testify against 16 Congressional redistricting. 17 MR. DAVIS: Good afternoon. I'm Ruben 18 Davis, Constable of Fort Bend County, a lifelong 19 resident of Houston, Texas, and I'm here speaking as a 20 private citizen. 21 I'm here to tell you that I echo the 22 sentiment of lots of great people and citizens of 23 Houston that this is a waste of time. I myself am a 24 member of the 25th Congressional District. It's one of 25 the most diverse districts in America. We want you to

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Page 117 1 leave it alone. 2 (Applause) 3 MR. DAVIS: Previously I was in Tom 4 DeLay's district. We got no representation from that. 5 You know, Tom DeLay needs to go back to wherever he 6 belongs, up in Washington, the extermination business, 7 and leave Texas politics alone. We in Texas, we vote 8 for who we want to vote for. You know, we're a diverse 9 population, and you can't separate us. 10 So I'm asking you to not -- like the 11 previous speaker already said, you've already made up 12 your minds, but I'm going to put this on your heart: 13 You can always change your mind. 14 (Applause) 15 MR. DAVIS: Thank you. 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 17 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 18 The Chair will now recognize Anessa Fawn 19 Broussard. Is she here? We'll just show you as being 20 against Congressional redistricting. Thank you. 21 The Chair will also recognize 22 Mr. Cleveland Johnson -- Johnston, and I believe he just 23 would like to be shown as being against. 24 Would you like to speak? Okay. If 25 you'll just state your name and who you're with for the

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Page 118 1 record, please. 2 MR. THOMPSON: My name is Roland 3 Thompson. 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I may have the 5 wrong -- this may not be -- because this is Cleveland. 6 MR. THOMPSON: Mr. Cleveland Johnson is 7 what you're speaking of. Cleveland Johnson. 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay. So just show 9 you as being against Congressional redistricting on the 10 record? Okay, thank you, sir. 11 The Chair will recognize Ira Leichtman to 12 testify against Congressional redistricting. 13 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Up here. 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Oh, okay. After 15 this one, the next name will be -- Judy Hollinger will 16 be next, and then Jeffrey Hutson, so you can be ready. 17 Yes, sir, if you'll just state your name 18 and who you're with for the record. 19 MR. LEICHTMAN: My name is Ira Leichtman. 20 I'm a lawyer -- 21 AUDIENCE: We can't hear you. 22 MR. LEICHTMAN: My name is Ira Leichtman. 23 I'm a lawyer. I'm an active member of the Democratic 24 Party, I'm a native Houstonian born at Methodist 25 Hospital, I live in Bellaire, went to Bellaire High

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Page 119 1 School. My family has been in the Houston area since 2 the '40s. My dad was active in the Houston Board of 3 Realtors. I've grown up in the Willow Meadows area and 4 lived next door to , who we all respect. 5 In growing up, I recall her commending 6 the great Congressmen that we had like Bob Eckhardt and 7 how well they had represented us. I currently live in 8 Bellaire, and I've knocked on hundreds, literally 9 hundreds of doors for the Democratic Party, and I've 10 seen, as an active member working for Ken Bentsen, signs 11 in the yards that say "Ken Bentsen" and "George Bush." 12 These people in my neighborhood adore -- 13 have adored Mike Andrews, and the same people now 14 respect Chris Bell. We have been served well by these 15 Congresspeople -- Eckhardt, Andrews, Bentsen and Bell -- 16 and whenever my family has needed representation on 17 environmental impact issues, flood issues, we've always 18 called Congressman Bentsen's office, Congressman 19 Andrews' office and Congressman Bell's office. We've 20 had very -- our needs have been promptly and effectively 21 and courteously responded to. 22 Recently I had a situation as a lawyer 23 where I tried for a year for my clients to give 24 thousands of dollars back to . In this day and 25 age, when Medicare is in such dire straits, we couldn't

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Page 120 1 get anything done until I called Chris Bell's office. 2 Within a week after he was sworn into office, he 3 effectively called Medicare and resolved the problem 4 promptly and effectively, and I think he's been a great 5 representative for our district. 6 (Applause) 7 MR. LEICHTMAN: I have a few other things 8 to say which may look partisan, but folks, this is a 9 partisan issue, and much more. 10 (Light applause) 11 MR. LEICHTMAN: This effort at 12 redistricting less than three years after our last 13 redistricting based on the 2000 census involves a 14 continuing drive to give the national Republican Party a 15 permanent lock on power. Let me repeat that: This is a 16 drive for power by the Republican Party. 17 Case in point, Westar Energy, and I think 18 y'all all know what that's about, and let's look -- 19 let's not overlook Tom DeLay's . All 20 y'all need to be familiar with the organized effort of 21 the Republican Party nationally to drive every 22 Democratic lobbyist from contributing to the Democratic 23 Party. They brag about how they have 33 of the 36 top 24 lobbyists in the lock of Tom DeLay and Tom DeLay's 25 K Street project.

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Page 121 1 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Don't forget Enron! 2 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: That's right. 3 MR. LEICHTMAN: Just a few more comments. 4 They're now reaching their tentacles down here to Texas. 5 We are naive if we don't comprehend that Tom DeLay is 6 more radical than , the man famous for 7 shutting down the United States government. 8 I'd like to quote from Paul Krugman's 9 latest editorial where he talks about Tom DeLay smoking 10 a cigar on government property and the majority leader 11 shouted, "I am the federal government, don't stop me!" 12 (Booing and hissing from audience) 13 MR. LEICHTMAN: And we all know about how 14 Tom DeLay won't stop restoring child tax credits for 15 low-wage families; his comment, "There are a lot of 16 other things that are more important to Texans." 17 Tom DeLay's office stated that he went 18 into politics to promote, quote, "a Biblical world 19 view," and that's why he pursued the Clintons, because, 20 quote, "they didn't share his views." He also called a 21 news conference after Columbine and stated the fact that 22 the students are taught the theory of evolution, that's 23 what caused Columbine. 24 (Laughter) 25 MR. LEICHTMAN: But folks, this is more

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Page 122 1 than getting mad at Tom DeLay. It's about what many of 2 us fears, of Democrats across the state closing their 3 eyes and pretending that this dispute about 4 redistricting is just politics as usual. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 6 Mr. Leichtman. Any questions? 7 MR. LEICHTMAN: I want to apologize for 8 going over. 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, are there 10 any questions of the witness? Thank you for your 11 testimony. 12 MR. LEICHTMAN: Thank you. 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will 14 recognize Judy Hollinger to testify against 15 Congressional redistricting. If you'll just state who 16 you are and who you're with, please. Thank you. 17 MS. HOLLINGER: Thank you. My name is 18 Judy Hollinger. I'm president of the Houston Area 19 League of Women Voters. The statement I have today -- 20 (Applause) 21 MS. HOLLINGER: Thank you. The statement 22 I have today is actually from the League of Women Voters 23 of Texas, representing more than 3,000 members in the 24 state. And as you -- I think probably all of you 25 committee know we have studied redistricting since at

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Page 123 1 least 1984 in the State of Texas, so we have quite a few 2 views on it. 3 On behalf of our members statewide, the 4 League of Women Voters of Texas appreciates the 5 opportunity to appear before this committee to present 6 comments on redistricting, a process that affects the 7 citizen's fundamental right to vote. The league is a 8 nonpartisan legal organization that encourages the 9 informed and active participation of citizens in 10 government and influences public policy through 11 education and advocacy. 12 The lines for the current Congressional 13 districts were drawn by the court and have withstood 14 legal challenges. To attempt to change them at this 15 point would be a misuse of resources that should be 16 focused on the serious current issues for the state. 17 (Applause) 18 MS. HOLLINGER: The next -- the next 19 redistricting should follow the 2010 census. 20 AUDIENCE: Yes! 21 (Applause) 22 (Man in audience booing) 23 MS. HOLLINGER: Redistricting after a 24 decennial census to create voting districts 25 approximately equal in population is a basic step in

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Page 124 1 ensuring that each citizen's vote carries the same 2 weight in an election. Our position is based on a 3 position that a population standard is the most 4 equitable way of assuring that each vote is of equal 5 value in a democratic and representative system of 6 government. 7 Unfortunately, partisan political 8 concerns often take precedence and redistricting is used 9 to gerrymander or to protect incumbents or the party in 10 power. This does not serve the interests of citizens. 11 When district lines are drawn so that the districts are 12 not competitive, or when one or another group or party 13 is assured to win in a district, the meaning of our vote 14 is diluted. If we think that our vote does not have any 15 impact, we lose the modification to participate. This 16 can happen whether you belong to the group that never 17 wins or the group that always wins. 18 The league urges you to make a protection 19 of the value or weight of each vote in an election your 20 paramount goal during the redistricting process. 21 Towards that end, league members support the following 22 standards for the redistricting process in future 23 decennial periods: A commission with the initial 24 responsibility of formulating a redistricting plan 25 designating boundaries for Congressional, Texas Senate

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Page 125 1 and Texas House districts should be established. The 2 commission should appointed, bipartisan, small in size, 3 and composed of an odd number of members. 4 If the commission is not initially 5 responsible, the legislature should conduct the work of 6 redistricting during a special session called for the 7 sole purpose of redistricting. The special session 8 should operate within a short, strict time frame. 9 The state legislature should be 10 responsible for the final approval of the redistricting 11 plan. Specific provisions should be made for automatic 12 court review, preferable with the Texas -- preferably 13 with the Texas Supreme Court having original 14 jurisdiction. Definite preestablished time limits for 15 each stage of the process should be included. 16 Many of the league's long-held positions 17 for establishing district lines are now mandated by law. 18 We agree that districts should be apportioned on the 19 basis of equal population, that districts should be 20 single-member and contiguous, and that districts should 21 not be drawn to dilute the voting strength of minority 22 populations. 23 In addition, league members believe the 24 following guidelines should be used when establishing 25 district lines: District lines should coincide with the

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Page 126 1 boundaries of local political subdivisions. 2 Consideration should be given to ensuring that districts 3 are compact. Retention of incumbents should not be a 4 primary consideration. Political party strength should 5 not be a consideration. Drawing the lines to divide the 6 state into districts where all voters have a real chance 7 of having their concerns addressed is crucial to 8 maintaining the vitality of our system of government. 9 Your work will affect the most vital part 10 of our American democracy, the citizen's vote. 11 Protecting the vote, not partisan gain, must be your 12 sole focus. Thank you for your consideration and 13 attention to our concerns. 14 (Applause) 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 16 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 17 The Chair would like to recognize that 18 Representative Joe Moreno has joined us from Houston. 19 Would you like to testify at this time? Thank you. 20 The Chair will now recognize Jeffrey 21 Hutson to testify against Congressional redistricting. 22 Is he not here? The Chair will now recognize John 23 L. Mischna to testify on Congressional redistricting. 24 Is he here? Would you like -- no, you would not like to 25 testify? Would you like to show for, against or

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Page 127 1 neutrally? 2 MAN IN AUDIENCE: For. 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: For? 4 MAN IN AUDIENCE: For. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. The 6 Chair will now recognize Yvette Diaz to testify against 7 redistricting. Is she here? Diaz, Yvette Diaz? 8 The Chair will recognize Scot Fahey to 9 testify neutrally on Congressional redistricting. Then 10 the next, Naurette Martin, Patricia Reid, and Margaret 11 Gauthier. Those will be the next three, if you'll be 12 ready. 13 Mr. Fahey, if you will just give your 14 name and who you're with for the record, please. 15 MR. FAHEY: Hello, my name is Scot Fahey, 16 and today I'm here as a private citizen. In the past, 17 during the 2000 census, I was a City Councilman in 18 office in Riverside, Texas, and had an opportunity to 19 participate in the process of the census. 20 The census is important because it's 21 about peaceful transition of power. Yesterday, today, 22 and hopefully tomorrow, we continue to reside in a 23 republic; but over time our precious republic has given 24 away the day-to-day operations of government operations 25 to elected officials elected by districts.

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Page 128 1 Since the Voting Act passed in the '60s, 2 children have grown up, moved out, and had children. My 3 children have grown up and registered to vote. The 4 passage of housing rights acts have allowed generations 5 now of voters that followed to live in areas that were 6 simply not possible before. The result of this 7 migration out of the inner cities has changed forever 8 the historic community makeup. 9 When lost a Congressional seat, 10 the idea of a protected Congressional District was also 11 lost forever. The idea that we can write a district 12 that protects the incumbents is becoming mathematically 13 improbable. We had a tradition to start of citizens 14 government. You served a term and you'd go home. I ran 15 for office, I was elected in the State of Texas, I 16 served my term, and thankfully, I went home. 17 The peaceful transition of power is 18 changing. It is now count the ballots, recount the 19 ballots, and count them again. It's descended into what 20 can only be described as a most ugly contest of by any 21 means necessary over my dead body. I wish you good luck 22 in your task. 23 And with this final note, redistricting 24 was done by the courts. It is the duty of the 25 legislature. Good luck, guys. My decision to wear

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Page 129 1 Kevlar were probably a good decision this morning. 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 3 questions of Mr. Fahey? Representative Noriega. 4 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Councilman, are 5 you aware that in numerous times thought our state's 6 history and other states' history that the courts have 7 determined the lines, and those are the lines where 8 they've been for the state, where they've been for 9 counties, where they've been for cities, where they've 10 been school boards. Courts have made the final 11 determination of those lines which we've run. Are you 12 aware of that? 13 MR. FAHEY: I am aware that the courts 14 will continue, through massive appeals, to be the place 15 where decisions on districting will be solved. I do 16 believe that it is the position of the legislature to do 17 it. 18 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Are you aware 19 that it was basically the governor's position that we 20 did throw it to the courts after the 2000 -- or during 21 the 2001 session? Are you aware of that? 22 MR. FAHEY: With the knowledge that it 23 was going there anyway, it saved a great deal of time 24 and money. 25 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And therefore

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Page 130 1 the courts now, the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court of 2 this land, that also determined who our Commander in 3 Chief is -- 4 (Laughter, cheering and applause) 5 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: -- has also 6 determined that these are the lines that have passed the 7 muster of all the previous court cases that -- national 8 court cases, and that we adhere to, and that these are 9 the rules now, these are the rules by which we run, and 10 that a duly held election has occurred and 11 representatives have been elected; and that now to 12 change it midstream would be to take away these persons' 13 vote and how they voted? Would you agree with that? 14 MR. FAHEY: That was a lot, sir, and I'll 15 get to the point. The courts have said that this will 16 pass muster. That is correct. Is this the only plan 17 that will pass muster? No. 18 We are going back to court on this, so 19 whichever plan you draw, best of luck, sir. Thank you 20 for your time. 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 22 Talton? 23 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: Mr. Fahey, let me 24 ask you if I understand you correctly: Would you rather 25 have your elected officials draw the lines, or would you

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Page 131 1 regards have the unelected judges draw your lines? 2 MR. FAHEY: Sir, I have run for office, 3 and I have also voted for others in office. I have 4 voted for elected officials. I didn't vote for the 5 judges. 6 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any other 7 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 8 The Chair will now recognize Naurette 9 Gant Martin. The Chair will now recognize Patricia 10 M. Reid. The Chair will now recognize Margaret 11 F. Gauthier. Is Margaret here? The Chair will 12 recognize Tammy Rodriguez. 13 The Chair will recognize John "Mickey" 14 Breaux. Mr. Breaux will be coming down to testify 15 against Congressional redistricting. 16 Next in line will be Les Ruthven, and 17 then Jerry B -- I believe it's B-L-U-I-T-T. 18 MR. BREAUX: My name is John Mickey 19 Breaux from Jefferson County, Texas, and with due 20 respect to everybody here, I don't want to see any maps 21 until after the next census, as the Constitution 22 mandated. We finished the last census. Let's move 23 forward. 24 I'm appalled to think that a state 25 government that put a zero budget out, couldn't afford

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Page 132 1 insurance for children or drugs for seniors or -- 2 (Applause) 3 MR. BREAUX: -- or for school breakfasts 4 or teachers' insurance would waste the money on a 5 partisan effort. I'm from Jefferson County, I'm from 6 south Jefferson County. My Congressman is Nick Lampson, 7 he's from north Jefferson County -- 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mr. Breaux, I just 9 have one question, I'm sorry. On your Witness 10 Affirmation Form, you have that you're authorized to 11 speak on behalf of -- 12 MR. BREAUX: PACE International Union. 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: P-A-C-E? Okay. 14 I'm sorry. 15 MR. BREAUX: We have 15,000 working 16 families in Texas. 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And are you 18 speaking on behalf of them or yourself? 19 MR. BREAUX: On behalf of those folks and 20 myself. 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay, thank you. 22 Please continue. 23 MR. BREAUX: After the last election, we 24 went from having our own state Senator, David Bernsen, 25 from our county, to two state Senators from the Houston

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Page 133 1 area. We currently have one U.S. Congressman, Nick 2 Lampson. I don't want two U.S. Congressmans from the 3 Houston area to represent Jefferson County. 4 Nick's wife is from south county, so I 5 hope they don't have to get a divorce if you split the 6 county. We spend a lot of time and a lot of energy 7 talking about government waste and government spending, 8 we get you folks here on a Saturday spending y'all's tax 9 money and our tax money on an issue we shouldn't be 10 talking about. You don't have an educational funding 11 plan. 12 (Applause) 13 (Man in audience booing) 14 MR. BREAUX: There is not a state funding 15 plan that takes care of the schools. That's another 16 issue for later. It's not important to talk about 17 electing some Republican Congressmen. 18 All I can say is I'm opposed to it, and 19 if y'all have any questions, you've got my address. Any 20 questions? 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members of the 22 committee, any questions? Mr. Breaux, thank you for 23 your testimony. 24 (Applause) 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now

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Page 134 1 recognize Les R-U-T-H-V-E-N. 2 MR. RUTHVEN: That's Les Ruthven. 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Just give your name 4 and who you're with, please. 5 MR. RUTHVEN: I'm Les Ruthven 6 representing myself and my family. We live in the 7 -- 8 AUDIENCE: We can't hear you. 9 MR. RUTHVEN: Okay. This is Les Ruthven, 10 that's better. I'm representing myself and my family. 11 We live in the 18th Congressional District, Sheila, the 12 current 18th Congressional District. Sheila Jackson Lee 13 is representing us very well in that district. 14 In the new plan, Tom DeLay's plan, we are 15 not in the 18th District. I see no reason to change. 16 If it was fine for Governor Perry to say that we didn't 17 need to do redistricting in a special session two years 18 ago, I feel that that's appropriate. There will be a 19 new effort in 2010. At that time, I may be pushed into 20 another district, which is fine; but I don't see any 21 reason to spend $7 million to do this right now. 22 (Applause) 23 MR. RUTHVEN: I know that you are elected 24 by the people and are actually trying to serve the 25 people. But as a person, I feel my votes are getting

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Page 135 1 taken away. I mean, I've only had two years under this 2 redistricting plan, and I don't know why Tom DeLay -- 3 well, I actually do know why Tom DeLay wants to take my 4 vote away, because it would be easier to control the 5 country. 6 Like you say, there's just a small 7 majority right who are Republicans in the House, and 8 there would be a much greater majority. And people 9 having safe districts, they can have really radical 10 views that don't really serve all the people of their 11 representative district. 12 And I really encourage you to think very 13 seriously about what you're doing for the country. This 14 could be a coup. If it works here in Texas, I'm sure 15 this idea will go someplace else. 16 (Applause) 17 MR. RUTHVEN: I understand, though, that 18 you have been put in a very tight place by the governor. 19 You have to come up with a plan, and my advice to you is 20 come out with the plan that we already have. There are 21 no issues with the courts, and that should be it. 22 That's something that should be in the rules, and then 23 we could get on to some of the things like funding the 24 schools. 25 I have three daughters that are in the

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Page 136 1 public school system in Houston, and I'm concerned with 2 that. I know y'all are also concerned with other 3 budgeting issues. And I really encourage you to adopt 4 the current plan and vote it out to the -- to the bill 5 founders. That's all I have. Thank you. 6 (Applause) 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 8 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 9 The Chair now recognizes Jerry Bluitt. 10 The Chair will now recognize John Marrone. Is 11 Mr. Marrone here? The Chair will recognize Doug 12 Peterson. Mr. Peterson? The Chair will now recognize 13 Victor King, Mr. King here? The Chair will now 14 recognize Gary Yokie, Y-O-K-I-E, is he here? 15 The Chair will now recognize M. Sims 16 McCutchan to testify against Congressional 17 redistricting. And the next witness will be -- I 18 believe it's J-H-E-M-M Yeager. 19 If you'll just state your name for the 20 record and who you're with, please. 21 MR. McCUTCHAN: I do appreciate the 22 opportunity to speak today, but quite frankly, I'm not 23 happy to be here. I do not appreciate the fact that, as 24 many people have pointed out, the special session has 25 been called, spending my taxpayer money --

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Page 137 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Can I stop you for 2 one moment? 3 MR. McCUTCHAN: Yes. 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Please identify 5 yourself and who you're with, please. 6 MR. McCUTCHAN: My name is Sims 7 McCutchan. I'm here as a private citizen. And the way 8 it sounds today, a lot of angry people along with me are 9 in this hall. I hope that registers. There are a lot 10 of us not happy about this. 11 (Applause) 12 MR. McCUTCHAN: I feel that it's the 13 worst thing possible for the City of Houston. As 14 Councilmember Annise Parker said, it will cut our 15 representation, dilute it completely, and leave us less 16 representation. I hope that the members of this 17 committee will rise above partisanship, if that's 18 possible, and -- when you make this decision. 19 I think, first of all, it shouldn't be to 20 begin with. In the second place, I am firmly against 21 it. And all I can do is say, I just hope for a better 22 day without DeLay! 23 (Applause) 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 25 questions?

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Page 138 1 (Cheering and loud applause) 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 3 recognize Mr. Yeager. Is he in the audience? 4 Mr. Yeager? 5 MR. YEAGER: Good afternoon. 6 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 7 recognize -- oh, I'm sorry. 8 MR. YEAGER: Good afternoon. I'm Thomas 9 Yeager, private citizen. I just want to speak against 10 the whole process of the redistricting. It is not 11 necessary. I recognize that the committee has a job to 12 do by -- that the State commands you when the governor 13 calls a special session for this. 14 But I think you should go back and tell 15 the governor that we do not want a special session on 16 redistricting, that the citizens of Texas are offended 17 by it. 18 (Applause) 19 MR. YEAGER: And you should tell the 20 governor, the governor that inherited his position at 21 first not being elected by the citizens of Texas but by 22 the position being vacated by George Bush, who also was 23 not elected by the citizens of this nation -- 24 (Cheering and applause) 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any

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Page 139 1 questions of Mr. Yeager? 2 The Chair will now recognize Darryl 3 Davis -- is Mr. Davis here? -- to testify against 4 Congressional redistricting. If you'll just give us 5 your name and who you're with for the record, please. 6 MR. DAVIS: Good afternoon. My name is 7 Darryl Davis, and I'm speaking on behalf just as a 8 private citizen. I'm against redistricting. The courts 9 and the people says now is not the time to separate our 10 state. If it's not broke, don't fix it. 11 (Applause) 12 MR. DAVIS: If it's not going to improve 13 relationships, why support it? The current district 14 boundaries have allowed politicians to have influence in 15 our community. It also has actually strengthened our 16 state. It actually allowed us to come together to 17 reason, come together to build a state. We speak about 18 diversity, and now is the time not to separate, but now 19 is the time to influence the current district as it 20 relates to building families and lives. 21 I believe the proposed redistricting plan 22 will compromise our future. It will compromise our 23 future as it relates to asking ourselves, will we really 24 gain? Will we really solidify our efforts as they 25 relate to Texans, as it relates to citizens, as it

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Page 140 1 relates to the State of Texas? Surely it's a high risk, 2 but I believe now is not the time. The courts and the 3 people say now is not the time to separate the State of 4 Texas. 5 (Applause) 6 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 7 Mr. Davis. Members, any questions of Mr. Davis? Thank 8 you for your testimony. 9 The Chair will now recognize Beverly 10 Hatcher to testify against Congressional redistricting. 11 Is Beverly here? The Chair will now recognize Al 12 Clements to testify for Congressional redistricting. 13 Mr. Clements? 14 (Light applause) 15 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Poor old Al! Poor old 16 Al. 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If you'll just give 18 us your name and who you're with for the record, please. 19 Your name and who you're with for the record, please. 20 MR. CLEMENTS: My name is Al Clements, 21 and I represent myself. Madam Chairman and members of 22 the committee, let me begin by giving you a brief 23 synopsis of my background. A native Houstonian, I hit 24 70 this year, finally. I'm a Korean War veteran, and my 25 wife and I are the parents of 14 children.

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Page 141 1 I was a former executive assistant to the 2 mayor of Houston in '63 and a candidate for city council 3 in '93. I was a Democrat-elected judge for 10 years. I 4 was Sergeant at Arms at the Harris County Democratic 5 convention back in the days when we had county-wide 6 conventions. I was a Democratic state delegate for six 7 conventions, State Democratic Executive Committee 8 organizer. I lost the SDEC election by a couple of 9 votes back in the days when our governor was John 10 Connally, and the Democratic Party then was alive and 11 vibrant; and I remember campaigning for Governor 12 Connally back in all the Chinese restaurants and 13 Hispanic restaurants on the north side. Still had his 14 arm in the sling, back when he was with President 15 Kennedy. 16 In '78, I was holding a Democratic 17 primary, and my precinct district was swamped with all 18 the long-haired anti-war liberals. 19 (Mr. Clements inaudible here due to noise 20 from crowd.) 21 MR. CLEMENTS: It was then I decided the 22 Democratic Party had left me, and I do mean left. 23 MAN IN AUDIENCE: I can see the reason 24 why. 25 MR. CLEMENTS: The Democratic Party had

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Page 142 1 moved so far to the left they no longer represented 2 those political and social values that I and my family 3 held and hold so dear. 4 (Cheering) 5 MR. CLEMENTS: After serving as a 6 Republican alternate judge, I ran for and won the 7 Republican precinct as committeeman for precinct 14, a 8 precinct I've been privileged to serve over for 20 years 9 now as a Republican committeeman. I have served on the 10 state Senate Republican Executive Committee and have for 11 years, and I have held many positions there, including 12 Chairman of the Active Campaign Committee. 13 At that time, the Republican Party had 14 less than 100 members elected statewide. What did we 15 do? We worked. Under what system? A grossly 16 gerrymandered, archaic, distorted system set up by the 17 majority party then, the Democratic Party. The 18 Republican Party now has over 1200 elected officials 19 statewide. Let this be a lesson to your Democrats. 20 Stop bellyaching and crying over your presumed sad state 21 of affairs and get out and go to work and get your party 22 something of substance to stand for. 23 (Booing from audience) 24 (Gavel) 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Could we have

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Page 143 1 order, please? Go ahead, Mr. Clements. 2 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Get to the point! 3 MR. CLEMENTS: As a former Republican 4 Party state platform Chairman, I oversaw a platform -- a 5 state platform that made sense to the average Texan, one 6 they can rally behind. I've been through five 7 redistrictings. I've lived in the same home for over 40 8 years and I've been in Districts 7, 11, 13, 15, and 17. 9 Sorry, no 4 or 6. I'm sick of all this rhetoric 10 regarding Congressman Tom DeLay. 11 AUDIENCE: Time! Time! 12 MR. CLEMENTS: It's appalling how biased 13 the media is. The dial always falls to the left. I'd 14 like to tell you there's a difference between 15 Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee holding a redistricting 16 proposal and Tom DeLay. Yes, there is a difference. 17 You bet there is. Congressman DeLay is a member of the 18 majority party, which is represented by a minority of 19 the Texas delegation. Hooray for Tom DeLay. 20 One more item before I close, and this is 21 probably the most overlooked misunderstood issue of all 22 and one which most elected officials are even afraid to 23 address. This is the effect of redistricting on 24 minorities. 25 AUDIENCE: Time! Time! Time!

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Page 144 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mr. Clements, thank 2 you for your testimony. Members, do we have any 3 questions of Mister -- thank you for your testimony. 4 (Cheering and applause) 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I believe that each 6 and every person should be heard, and every time that 7 there's an outburst in the crowd, you're limiting our 8 time. 9 The Chair now recognizes Mr. Roy Love to 10 testify against Congressional redistricting. Is 11 Mr. Love here? 12 This will be our last witness. We will 13 take a lunch break as soon as Mr. Love testifies. Thank 14 you. 15 MR. LOVE: Thank you. I'm Pastor Roy 16 Love. I'm pastor of the Gulf Meadows Church located 17 over in the southeast part of our city. I have a very 18 large congregation, and we have -- 19 AUDIENCE: Can't hear you. 20 MR. LOVE: We have a very large 21 congregation that reflects the community. We have grave 22 concerns about the new plan to redistrict. The 23 immigration issue is an issue at our church. We have a 24 lot of people that are coming in, asking questions and 25 needing help. We always turn to our Congresswoman,

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Page 145 1 Sheila Jackson Lee, who is right there to help us and 2 encourage us. And because of the lines being redrawn 3 and redrawn, it bothers us. 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mr. Love, let me 5 stop you. 6 To the people that are leaving, it is the 7 intent of the Chair to just recess from 1:00 to 2:00 8 for lunch, not 1:00 to 3:00. So I just wanted you to 9 know before you go to lunch, 1:00 to 2:00. We'll be 10 back at 2:00 o'clock. I'm sorry, proceed. 11 MR. LOVE: So we would like to go down on 12 record that we are against this measure. We are not for 13 it, and we will stand against it. We thank you for your 14 consideration and your time today, but we certainly have 15 grave concerns of what is before us and how it will 16 affect so many people that we'll have an outcry that 17 will continue on. Decided for, we will continue to 18 stand against it. Thank you. 19 (Applause) 20 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 21 Mr. Love. Members, are there any questions of Mr. Love? 22 Members, it is the Chair's intention to 23 take a lunch break until 2:00 o'clock. The committee 24 will stand at ease until 2:00 o'clock. 25 (Lunch recess.)

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Page 146 1 INDEX OF SPEAKERS IN MORNING PROCEEDINGS: 2 Dwight Boykins 3 Representative Phil King 4 Representative Gene Green 5 Representative Chris Bell 6 Representative Sheila Jackson Lee 7 Representative Sylvester Turner 8 Representative Rick Noriega 9 Representative Jessica Farrar 10 Representative Martha Wong 11 Representative Joe Deshotel 12 Representative Garnet Coleman 13 Representative Dora Olivo 14 Representative Vilma Luna 15 Howard J. Middleton 16 Councilwoman Ada Edwards 17 Yolanda Garza Birdwell 18 Ernest Wilkerson 19 James Rodriguez 20 Maureen Jouett 21 James Yarbrough 22 Stephen Holmes 23 Richard Young 24 Johnny Mata 25 Sylvia Brooks

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Page 147 1 Councilmember Annise Parker 2 Pat Gandy 3 Tony Buzbee 4 Ruben Davis 5 Ira Leichtman 6 Judy Hollinger 7 Scot Fahey 8 John "Mickey" Breaux 9 Sims McCutchan 10 Thomas Yeager 11 Darryl Davis 12 Pastor Roy Love 13 ****************************** 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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Page 148 COUNTY OF HARRIS ) STATE OF TEXAS ) REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION I, SUSAN PERRY MILLER, CSR, RMR, CRR, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify that the foregoing transcription is a true and accurate transcription of my shorthand notes taken in the captioned proceedings. I further certify that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties or attorneys in the action in which these proceedings were taken. Further, I am not financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.

Subscribed and sworn to on this ______day

of ______, ______.

______SUSAN P. MILLER, CSR, RMR, CRR Texas CSR No. 4083 Expiration Date: 12/31/2003

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Page 149 ************************************************** THE HOUSE COMMITTEE on REDISTRICTING SUBCOMMITTEE on CONGRESSIONAL REDISTRICTING ONE 78th LEGISLATURE JUNE 28, 2003 **************************************************

9:00 a.m. Texas Southern University 3100 Cleburne Street Houston, Texas Roderick Paige College of Education Auditorium

AFTERNOON PROCEEDINGS

Reported by Susan Perry Miller, CSR, RMR, CRR

Spanish Interpreter: Beatriz Wright

Vietnamese Interpreter: Alice Huynh

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Page 150 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 Committee Panel: 4 Chair, Representative Geanie Morrison 5 Vice-Chair, Representative Ron Wilson 6 Representative Phil King 7 Representative Vilma Luna 8 Representative Robert Talton 9 10 Also Present: 11 Representative Rick Noriega 12 Representative Garnet Coleman 13 Representative Martha Wong 14 Representative Joe Deshotel 15 Representative Jessica Farrar 16 Representative Dora Olivo 17 Representative Senfronia Thompson 18 Representative Sylvester Turner 19 Representative Chris Bell 20 Representative Sheila Jackson Lee 21 Representative John Culberson 22 Representative Gene Green 23 Representative Nick Lampson 24 Representative Joe Moreno 25

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Page 151 1 (Committee called to order at 2:16 p.m.) 2 (Representatives Wilson and King are not 3 present.) 4 AFTERNOON PROCEEDINGS 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 6 recognize Congressman Nick Lampson to testify. 7 (Cheering and loud applause) 8 REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: Thank you very 9 much, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you, my friends. It's 10 nice to be here to join you today. 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And Congressman, I 12 know we all know who you are; but just for the record, 13 if you'll give us your name and who you're with for the 14 record. Thank you. 15 REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: You're welcome. 16 I'm Nick Lampson. I'm the representative for the 9th 17 District of Texas. I represent the area of Beaumont, 18 Port Arthur, Texas City, Galveston, the eastern part of 19 southeast Houston and northeast Houston, and a lot of 20 small communities in between. 21 I really do appreciate the opportunity to 22 come over and be here today to address this 23 distinguished body. I had a full set of written 24 remarks, and I'm going to enter those or give those to 25 you for the record and see if I can't just go into a

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Page 152 1 little bit more of what I felt in listening to some of 2 what I've heard today and the thoughts that were in my 3 mind as I went through it today. 4 I'll reflect a good bit on what I saw 5 happen over the last several months in Washington, D.C., 6 which has become a fairly divisive place over the last 7 several years, unfortunately, and one that a lot of us 8 have wondered about why it's changing the way that it 9 is. I was asked to go to Washington and do my best to 10 vote the will of the constituents of my district. And 11 much to the chagrin of some of my best friends, 12 sometimes I didn't always vote for them on every issue; 13 and I felt that I did that because it was the right 14 thing to do for the larger part of my district, 15 regardless of my party. And I feel very proud of it, 16 and I strongly support my Democratic Party. 17 I don't feel like the same thing is 18 happening today with the other party. A lot of people 19 who ask me to be bipartisan are clearly lining up and 20 saying, "Please, be partisan." That's wrong. That's 21 not good for my country. That's not good for the 22 citizens in the district in which I live. It's not good 23 for any of us. 24 This process of redistricting is 25 divisive. It has been interruptive in the United States

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Page 153 1 House of Representatives, and the hardest thing for me 2 to understand is why it has been the way it's been in 3 our own Texas delegation, which has been proud to be 4 among the absolute strongest, most unified Congressional 5 districts in the United States Congress. And literally, 6 a month ago, I had a colleague from the other party sit 7 no more than 25 feet from me in a restaurant and never 8 talked to me, and we sat face-to-face for 45 minutes. 9 That's not helping us do what's good for 10 Texas. That's not why these folks are here today; and 11 that's not why you're here today, I hope. I truly hope 12 that you will see what this whole process is doing to 13 this country, to this state, and not set the precedent 14 that will take us down the road of creating division 15 often and chaos often in the process, instead of trying 16 to allow us to have the stability and not do this on 17 partisan -- partisan purposes, but do it as our 18 Constitution intended. 19 Now, we've got -- we know that it's going 20 to split communities of interest if the map that has 21 been shown is something that comes out from all of this. 22 We know it will discourage voter participation, and we 23 know that it will weaken the effectiveness of the Texas 24 delegation. All of those are strong points for you to 25 consider.

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Page 154 1 Let me mention a few other things that I 2 think are also important. John Adams, when he was 3 praising our constitutional system many years ago, 4 observed that we are a nation of laws, not of men. And 5 as such, I wish to impress upon you the absolute 6 violence which this activity can reflect upon our 7 Constitution. The Constitution directs that 8 legislatures may apportion representatives in the wake 9 of the census at the end of a decade. The letter of our 10 founding document in no way anticipates a redistricting 11 process after each election. 12 We often hear from our conservative 13 colleagues that we should take a strict and narrow view 14 of the Constitution. In this instance, I couldn't agree 15 more. As is often said by conservatives in Congress, we 16 should not expand the spirit of the Constitution to fit 17 our political expedience. Therefore, please acknowledge 18 that redistricting should not be permitted to happen 19 every two years, particularly for political purposes. 20 (Applause) 21 REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: Whether you 22 consider yourself a statesman or a citizen legislator, 23 it is incumbent upon you to consider the duty by which 24 you are bound. Do not let shortsighted interests lead 25 you astray through politics. To do so, you have to

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Page 155 1 oppose any plan brought before you, no matter who it 2 benefits, because the process doesn't fit within our 3 laws and within our traditions of this country. 4 We've built this nation on a solid 5 foundation. As a result of our republic -- as a result 6 of that, our republic has stood the test of time. It 7 has done so not because of the mandatory whims of 8 political majorities, but rather in spite of them. As a 9 representative of such a nation, I implore you to reject 10 this whole process for fear of where you will take not 11 just the State of Texas, but the United States of 12 America. 13 But should you feel it necessary to oust 14 your political opponents from office and wrest power 15 from the hands of the people, would you at least 16 consider doing so as the Constitution directs? 17 Principled leaders, and I believe each of you are that, 18 principled leaders will protect the foundation of our 19 Constitution and not participate in this disruptive, 20 divisive, nation-changing process. 21 And I want to end by asking a question, 22 and that is that I want to know how many people in this 23 room are for -- a show of hands -- for redistricting, if 24 you will. 25 MAN IN AUDIENCE: You bet!

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Page 156 1 (Show of hands) 2 (Man in audience booing) 3 REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: And how many of 4 you are opposed to redistricting? 5 (Show of hands) 6 (Cheering and applause) 7 REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: I think there 8 were five hands that went up, and we have a significant 9 number of people in this room right now, many fewer than 10 before. 11 And I would ask one final question, and 12 that is that when we do have a map that should be 13 considered, should we not have another set of hearings 14 on that map, here -- 15 (Applause) 16 REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: -- in our homes? 17 And with that, I will open myself up for 18 questioning. 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 20 questions of Congressman Lampson? Thank you so much for 21 your testimony. 22 REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: Thank you very 23 much. 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And you do have 25 written testimony to submit? You have written testimony

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Page 157 1 you would like to submit? 2 REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: I do. 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay. Thank you. 4 REPRESENTATIVE LAMPSON: Thank you very 5 much. 6 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 7 Congressman. 8 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Madam Chair? 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Just a minute, 10 Representative Noriega. I would like to note that 11 Representative Harold Dutton has joined us. Great to 12 see you. 13 (Applause) 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I'm sorry. 15 Representative Noriega? 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you, Madam 17 Chair. Just a question. 18 Given in light of Representative King's 19 remarks that a product -- a new product that's not been 20 seen by anyone, we recognized maybe it will come out 21 Monday or Tuesday, and given the comment that was just 22 made and that Harris County represents not just 20% of 23 the state population, but in the surrounding counties 24 much more than that, would the Chair think it perhaps 25 appropriate that there is another public hearing on the

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Page 158 1 map once that product is out so that the people can then 2 testify as it applies to a product and not just a 3 concept, is the question. 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I think all of the 5 comments here today will be taken back to the full 6 committee. We as a subcommittee are taking all of the 7 testimony and comments; and absolutely, Representative 8 Noriega, I will take that back to the full committee. 9 Any other questions, members, comments? 10 The Chair will now recognize Sue -- 11 Lovely? 12 MS. LOVELL: Lovell. 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Lovell, I'm sorry. 14 MS. LOVELL: But I'll take "Lovely." 15 (Applause) 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Sorry, Sue. If you 17 will just -- Sue is against Congressional redistricting. 18 And if you'll just give your name and who you're with 19 for the record, please. 20 MS. LOVELL: Yes. My name is Sue Lovell. 21 I am here representing the Democratic Party of Harris 22 County, and I am a member of the Democratic National 23 Committee. 24 (Applause) 25 MS. LOVELL: I want to thank you for the

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Page 159 1 opportunity to come here and speak. I come here today 2 actually as a newly liberated citizen of the United 3 States. On Thursday, the Supreme Court overturned a law 4 that the Texas Legislature has kept in force for 25 5 years that discriminated against gay and lesbian people. 6 (Applause) 7 MS. LOVELL: That law was wrong, just as 8 this redistricting is wrong. The Supreme Court decided 9 that it was bad law, conservative Supreme Court members; 10 and I hope that the Republicans here today will have the 11 backbone to stand up against something that they think 12 is wrong, just as the Supreme Court did on Thursday. 13 I am a member of the 18th District. I 14 live in Montrose, which I find to be a fine example of 15 diverse neighborhoods and how people can come together 16 from very different backgrounds and form a community and 17 have impact. We have been continually ripped apart over 18 redistricting. Our neighbors -- neighborhoods are being 19 separated, and I don't think that it's fair and it's 20 right, nor do the people that live in my neighborhoods. 21 I support the statements of the NAACP, 22 LULAC; and I think that the plan that the League of 23 Women Voters today presented was a very good plan, and I 24 hope that you would look at it and take it into 25 consideration.

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Page 160 1 The resources that will be spent on 2 redistricting, as a parent and a single mother, I would 3 much rather see used for the education of my children, 4 who attend public schools -- 5 (Applause) 6 MS. LOVELL: -- for a CHIPs program, 7 which many children have been given access through a 8 community center that we put together in Montrose. I'd 9 rather see those resources spent than this continual 10 ripping apart of neighborhoods. 11 I'm a proud member of the Democratic 12 Party because it's the party of the people and of 13 inclusiveness. 14 (Light applause) 15 MS. LOVELL: And I ask the Republicans 16 here today to be fair, as fair as the Supreme Court was 17 on Thursday. 18 I also, though, think something has not 19 been said here today which needs to be said, and that is 20 to my fellow Democrats that sit in the Senate. They 21 need to stand up and not take the enticements, which is 22 a nice word for what's being used against them -- 23 "bribes" would probably be a better word -- being used 24 to have them switch their votes. I encourage them, I 25 implore them, not to go over to the dark side but to

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Page 161 1 stand with the people and the Democratic Party and to 2 stand up for the voices and the vote that took place. 3 Thank you very much. 4 (Applause) 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 6 Members, do you have any questions? Representative 7 Noriega has a question. 8 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you, Madam 9 Chair. Ms. Lovell, real quick, under the map that was 10 passed out by the House that's been presented here, in 11 whose Congressional District would the Montrose 12 neighborhood be? 13 MS. LOVELL: I believe that it's John 14 Culberson's district. 15 (Laughter) 16 MS. LOVELL: Which I have to tell you, 17 you know, John Culberson is a nice man, but we don't 18 have a lot in common in the Montrose area; and we've 19 been very pleased with, actually, Sheila Jackson Lee. 20 But we come from Barbara Jordan, , Craig 21 Washington, so those are the kind of representatives 22 that we're used to having and the kind that we would 23 like to keep. 24 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 25 MS. LOVELL: You're welcome.

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Page 162 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any more 2 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 3 The Chair will now recognize Emory 4 B. Robinson, Emyre'. 5 MS. ROBINSON: "Em-ray," and most people 6 call me Emmy. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If you'll just give 8 your name and who you're with for the record, please. 9 MS. ROBINSON: Emyre' Barrios Robinson, 10 and I want to thank the committee for being here, but I 11 can't help but notice that it's down to about half. And 12 does the record show that the show that the committee is 13 no longer -- I'm assuming it's still a quorum. 14 But I have a -- excuse me. I'd like to 15 bring up a point that I haven't heard brought up or 16 discussed before, and that is whether any thought has 17 been given to the fact that what you're doing would set 18 a precedent, so are we going to look forward to every 19 time that the power structure changes in our 20 legislature, that there will be a redistricting? 21 (Applause) 22 MS. ROBINSON: And that is something that 23 concerns me, because I think something like that would 24 be totally unnecessary and chaotic. 25 And I just want to reiterate the

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Page 163 1 importance of all the points that have been brought up 2 here now, and I agree with Congressman Lampson about the 3 fact that it's obvious that the group here is for not to 4 redistrict; but if you do go ahead with it anyway and a 5 new map is drawn that you approve of, that you should 6 certainly have another set of hearings so that you will 7 hear the comments on that particular effort. Thank you. 8 (Applause) 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 10 Members, any questions of Ms. Robinson? Thank you for 11 your testimony. 12 The Chair will now call Phyllis Singer to 13 testify against Congressional redistricting. 14 (Applause) 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And as she comes 16 down, these were the names in order: Phyllis; Maurice 17 Sumner will be next; Jerry Wood; then Ivan Arceneaux -- 18 I'm sorry, these are just the names so that people will 19 be ready. I'm sorry. 20 All right. Ms. Singer, if you'll just 21 give your name and who you're with for the record, 22 please. 23 MS. SINGER: My name is Phyllis Singer. 24 I am a native Texan, originally from Dallas, and I am 25 speaking as an individual. I am here because I'm very

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Page 164 1 concerned with what is happening to our democracy. I am 2 strongly opposed to this redistricting. I think it's 3 totally unnecessary. 4 Redistricting was done two years ago 5 after the 2000 census. I'm sure it was not perfect, but 6 that is the essence of our democracy; and we have an 7 opportunity to review it again and change it at a 8 regular interval, which I believe would happen shortly 9 after 2010. Most Texans seem satisfied, relatively 10 satisfied, with their districts, their Congressional 11 districts. The only person that doesn't seem to be 12 satisfied is Tom DeLay. 13 (Applause) 14 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Yeah! 15 MS. SINGER: What I think that no one 16 here is taking a strong look at is that we're in very 17 difficult times now. Lots of lost jobs, bankruptcies, 18 huge plan losses, deflation, tax revenues are 19 falling. Texas cannot afford serial redistricting and 20 the years of court battles that follow it. This would 21 be very, very destabilizing to our democracy. 22 (Applause) 23 MS. SINGER: The whole issue here is not 24 about maps and drawing lines. The real issue is about a 25 power grab orchestrated from Washington, and whether

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Page 165 1 we're going to let that happen. 2 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Whoo! 3 (Applause) 4 MS. SINGER: This is being orchestrated 5 by a very dangerous man. 6 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: That's right. 7 MS. SINGER: His name is Tom DeLay, who 8 said, quote, "I am the federal government." Can you 9 imagine what kind of hubris it takes to make that 10 statement? Think about it. What we need to look at 11 that's going on here that nobody is really looking at 12 and internalizing, and that is that the Bush 13 administration and the extreme right is obsessed by 14 pushing this country to one-party rule. 15 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Nazis! 16 MS. SINGER: Our democracy is under 17 assault at all levels of government. Pick up the paper. 18 Every day there is some new assault on our democracy. 19 Every day we're faced with attempts to stifle the public 20 debate, to cut off the people of ideas, to curtail civil 21 liberties. The very essence of democracy, our right to 22 vote, is under attack with this redistricting. 23 The power grab has huge consequences. 24 What Tom DeLay says and attempts to do does matter. 25 What is required is women and men of good conscience to

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Page 166 1 stand up and simply say no. 2 (Cheering and applause) 3 MS. SINGER: No! 4 AUDIENCE: No! No! 5 MS. SINGER: In closing, I would like to 6 make a note of a coincidence that occurred last night. 7 I had no idea I was going to be able to speak today. My 8 husband was the one that encouraged me to come, and I 9 ended up giving a speech to several hundred people. 10 Anyway, we -- my husband and I saw "The 11 Pianist." It's a movie, a recent movie, a poignant 12 story of a brilliant pianist who survived the Holocaust. 13 Nazi Germany is an excellent example of one-party rule, 14 and Hitler was an elected leader of that country. 15 Without our vigilance, one-party rule in the United 16 States could lead to unimagined horrors. What we do has 17 serious consequences. What we're doing in this room has 18 serious consequences. Thank you. 19 (Applause) 20 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 21 questions of the witness? Thank you for your testimony. 22 (Standing ovation) 23 (Cheering and applause) 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair would 25 like to recognize that Honorable Senfronia Thompson from

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Page 167 1 Houston has joined us, from the Texas House. Thank you 2 for being here. 3 (Applause) 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 5 recognize Maurice Sumner to testify against 6 Congressional redistricting. 7 MR. SUMNER: I'm -- I was born in Jackson 8 County, Texas, and I've been a Democrat all my life and 9 I've lived in Texas. I was in the Korean War. I've 10 been a delegate to the state convention, the Democratic 11 state convention, and I'm opposed to this. 12 I could ratify many things that I've 13 heard that I think are good. The only thing that -- for 14 example, Mr. Lampson and the man hailing from Galveston 15 County gave excellent reasons, but I'll say in addition 16 that the cost of this -- if you believe that this is 17 going to improve the Democrats' position in the next 18 election to redistrict now, well, then what I say is not 19 true. But I doubt that you believe that. 20 This is money spent to benefit not the 21 state, and not to improve the laws, but to simply 22 benefit the Republican Party. It's the only time it has 23 ever been done in 50 years and in 50 states, and it is 24 like taking money from the state to improve your chances 25 in the next election. A lot of laws are passed that

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Page 168 1 way, but this is different, and I think it's worse than 2 whatever else I've seen. 3 Now, on another subject, this was 4 supposed to be a public hearing. The first member of 5 the public who spoke before this body spoke at 11:00 6 o'clock sharp. The hearing was announced for 9:00 7 o'clock. My friend, Marcario Ramirez, who came here to 8 say something because he thought if he got here before 9 8:00 o'clock, which he did, and I got here just after 10 him, there were lots of people here waiting at that time 11 when I got here at 8:25. Lots of people were waiting 12 here to talk. So the first person who was a member of 13 the public who spoke here did so at 11:00 o'clock. 14 Now, if you will be so kind in your 15 meetings in the future to limit people -- the only Rules 16 of Order that were posed were not Robert's, but yours, 17 which is that nobody got to speak for more than five 18 minutes. Mr. Ron Wilson has spoken for 15 or 20 19 minutes, and he spent five of those arguing with Sheila 20 Jackson Lee. And I want to offer my congratulations and 21 my good wishes to those members of the House who did not 22 turn this into a debate between members of the House, 23 because that's what it was. 24 (Applause) 25 MR. SUMNER: Now, you called this to

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Page 169 1 order for a 9:00 o'clock meeting at 9:57. Thank you. 2 (Applause) 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you for your 4 testimony. Members, any questions? 5 The Chair will now recognize 6 Representative Dora Olivo to testify. 7 (Applause) 8 REPRESENTATIVE OLIVO: Madam Chair and 9 members, I want to make some comments at this time that 10 I think are very, very necessary for the record. I want 11 to make the point that the procedures that we follow in 12 conducting these hearings directly affect voters, and 13 sometimes we forget that. 14 Public bill hearings are supposed to 15 guide the committee's decisions in how to assign voters 16 in the districts. When we make changes in these 17 procedures, as we have done here, it affects voters' 18 ability to be heard on redistricting. For example, we 19 have changed the prior practice of having the full 20 redistricting committee attend all public bill hearings. 21 And another change in procedure has been the fact that 22 the Senate and House redistricting committees conducted 23 field hearings together. 24 It is true there is a transcript of this 25 hearing, but it is unlikely that members -- other

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Page 170 1 members will have time to read it or consider the views 2 of voters that were testifying here today or in other 3 cities, nor can committee members ask questions of 4 voters by reading a transcript. These changes clearly 5 affect voters, and it is wrong. It is not 6 representative democracy, which is what this country is 7 about. 8 (Light applause) 9 REPRESENTATIVE OLIVO: And let me tell 10 you something else. I got into this community way back 11 in '74, and thank God for Willie Velasquez. He started 12 teaching us about full representation and democracy in 13 this country. It makes a difference who is in office, 14 and that's one of the major things that I learned. 15 Let me tell you, the best way you can 16 talk or you can see where a candidate's heart is is that 17 voting record, and we have some really good voting 18 records from the leadership that is trying to do that 19 power grab in the State of Texas and other parts of this 20 nation. Let me tell you about this record, because I 21 think that's important to the citizens to realize that 22 the realize this redistricting process is so wrong is 23 because of the implications of it or the consequences. 24 DeLay and the House Republicans tried to 25 cut the Medicaid program by 163 billion -- 163

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Page 171 1 billion -- which would have resulted in about 18 million 2 children losing their guaranteed coverage for 3 preventative and primary care benefits as well as 4 hospital care. That was in '95. But what's important 5 about that is that there's a record that's there that's 6 been established, and it's been the same one and it's 7 getting worse. 8 In 1995, DeLay and House Republicans 9 tried to eliminate the Summer Youth Program, denying 10 600,000 low-income youth a summer job. A few years 11 later, DeLay and the House Republicans proposed a budget 12 that would have cut nearly 73,000 summer jobs and 13 training opportunities for low-income youth. This was 14 in '99. And in between, there's a lot of other records 15 that have that same agenda. 16 Cuts for veterans: Earlier this year, 17 DeLay and House Republicans passed a budget that cut 18 funds for veteran hospitals; veteran hospitals, in a 19 time that we were at war? 20 (Applause) 21 REPRESENTATIVE OLIVO: And other 22 programs, 5 billion over the next 10 years. That is 23 wrong. We have young men and women dying right now. 24 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: That's right. 25 REPRESENTATIVE OLIVO: Fighting for this

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Page 172 1 country. Cuts for Texas schools: DeLay and the House 2 Republicans tried to eliminate the Department of 3 Education and all of the associated Title 1 funding, 4 which supports many good programs in Texas schools. 5 Cuts for : DeLay and the House 6 Republicans tried to pass a budget that denied Head 7 Start programs that would have benefitted 180,000 8 children over the following seven years. A few years 9 later, DeLay and House Republicans tried to pass another 10 budget that would have denied nearly 100,000 children 11 access to Head Start. 12 Cuts for senior citizens: That's wrong. 13 DeLay and House Republicans tried to cut Medicaid by 14 270 billion, the deepest cuts in the history of this 15 millennium, to pay for 245 billion in tax cuts primarily 16 directed to the wealthy. There's something wrong with 17 that. 18 Let me tell you, these monies that we're 19 spending for Head Start, it's not wasted money. It's 20 about investing in the most important resource of this 21 nation, the people of this nation, the working people of 22 this nation. 23 (Applause) 24 REPRESENTATIVE OLIVO: I represent 25 District 27 in Fort Bend County. The Congressman that

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Page 173 1 represent us presently are Chris Bell and Tom DeLay. I 2 am very much opposed to what we're doing right now. 3 This is a sham. This is wrong for this 4 country and for the State of Texas. It sets the wrong 5 precedent, and I am on record against this process that 6 we're using right now. Thank you. 7 (Cheering and applause) 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members have any 9 questions of the witness? Thank you for your testimony. 10 The Chair will now recognize Jerry Wood. 11 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: He's not here. 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 13 recognize Ivan Arceneaux. 14 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Madam Chair, Ivan 15 Arceneaux had to leave, but I have his written 16 testimony. May I read it into the record? 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Actually, if you 18 will just give it to the clerk, we will enter it into 19 the record. 20 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Thank you. 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: That would be 22 great, thank you. 23 The Chair will now recognize Mike Boylan 24 to testify for Congressional redistricting, B-O-Y-L-A-N, 25 is he here?

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Page 174 1 The Chair will now recognize Mary 2 Kendrick to testify against Congressional redistricting. 3 Is Mary here? 4 The Chair will now recognize Stan 5 Murrayman -- Merriman? If you'll just -- you have 6 written, great, thank you. 7 If you'll just, for the record, give us 8 your name and who you're with, please. 9 MR. MERRIMAN: My name is Stan Merriman, 10 and I am here today as a very well served constituent of 11 Congressman Chris Bell, from the 25th. 12 (Applause) 13 MR. MERRIMAN: I'm also here as a proud 14 grass roots organizer of Precinct 148 within his 15 district, and as well as the elected statewide Chair of 16 the Progressive Populist Caucus of the Texas Democratic 17 Party. 18 The title of my testimony today is as 19 follows: A tyrannical majority can only lead to a 20 totalitarian America. James Madison argued that 21 majority tyranny was the single great danger to our 22 democracy. He argued that our governing system needs 23 safeguards to protect, quote, "one part of the society 24 against the injustice of the other part." This is what 25 we're experiencing today; a majority rule which, though

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Page 175 1 comparatively new in Texas, is already behaving in a 2 much more autocratic fashion than the decades-long rule 3 of the state by the Democratic Party, my own party, 4 embodied by the Shivercrats. 5 I come from the wing of the Democratic 6 Party which fought for decades for a voice within our 7 own party. Our robust opposition to the conservative 8 majority, which suppressed the liberal minority, led the 9 way to inclusion and power sharing among Anglos, 10 African-Americans, Latinos, poor and moderate-income 11 women and men, gay and straight. Our party became the 12 better for it, and the legislature and Congressional 13 representation moved from a complete foundation by white 14 males to greatly improved, though still inadequate, 15 diversity. That diversity led to the transformation of 16 Texas from a one-party state to a vital Republican Party 17 which emerged to majority status. 18 Ironically and tragically, the intrusion 19 of Tom DeLay into our state electoral process could 20 result in the return to a one-party state, a condition 21 good Republicans abhorred a few short years ago. Today 22 I am representing the progressive wing of the 23 once-majority party called the Progressive Populist 24 Caucus. Within our own party, we are advocating a view 25 of electoral politics which argues powerfully for

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Page 176 1 reforms in our system to empower people at the grass 2 roots who are not participating in their governance. We 3 do so because we see the dangerous disintegration of 4 democracy itself in this state and our nation. 5 People who are economically 6 disadvantaged, most of whom are poor or people of color, 7 are experiencing the tyranny of a minority privileged 8 class. That privileged class has obtained their power 9 through financial influence and participation in the 10 system. The economically disadvantaged have been 11 struggling for 30 years in the losing battle just to 12 stay afloat and see no self-interest in participating in 13 the electoral system, nor do they see their interests 14 advocated by our representative system, not even, in 15 large part, by my beloved Democratic Party. 16 James Madison observed that the idea of 17 the majority representing the minority is a fiction. He 18 argued that an accumulation of power in the hands of a 19 few, quote, "whether of one, a few or many, and whether 20 hereditary, self-appointed or elected, may justly be 21 pronounced the very definition of tyranny." 22 A despot is defined by Oxford as a tyrant 23 or oppressor, autocrat, bully, authoritarian, arbitrary. 24 This definition aptly describes the behavior of 25 Congressman DeLay, Karl Rove, and their surrogates in

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Page 177 1 the Texas Republican Party! 2 (Applause) 3 MR. MERRIMAN: Oxford also defines 4 fascism as the totalitarian principles and organization 5 of an extreme right-wing movement or any other similar 6 or nationalistic movement. Is this not what we are 7 experiencing with this redistricting intervention, I ask 8 you. 9 AUDIENCE: Yes! Yes. 10 MR. MERRIMAN: Lani Guinier, 11 African-American, distinguished lawyer, law professor 12 and advocate for electoral reform, argues that a 13 self-interested majority can govern fairly if it 14 cooperates with the minority. The self-interested 15 majority values the principles of reciprocity. The 16 self-interested majority worries that the minority may 17 attract defectors from the majority and become the next 18 governing majority. The result will be a fairer system, 19 she argues, of mutual cooperation. The minority, both 20 Madison and Guinier argue, need protection against an 21 overbearing majority. 22 I ask you today to examine your 23 consciences. As our representatives, is this the time 24 that you should be spending when we have a badly broken 25 electoral system, participated in by a tiny minority of

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Page 178 1 the eligible voting population? 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mr. Merriman, thank 3 you for your testimony. We do have the written 4 testimony. Members, are there any questions? 5 MR. MERRIMAN: May I just finish? I have 6 three more lines. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Three more lines. 8 MR. MERRIMAN: Is your time not better 9 spent creating a system of participation which 10 encourages diversity of thought and opinion, robust 11 debate, completing ideas and thoughtful dissent from the 12 majority opinion? This defines a democracy in contrast 13 to a totalitarian and fascist regime. 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you for your 15 testimony. 16 (Cheering and applause) 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 18 recognize Norman Farr. 19 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Say again, please? 20 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Norman Farr, to 21 testify against Congressional redistricting. If you 22 could just give us your name and who you're with for the 23 record, please. 24 MR. FARR: My name is Norman Farr, and I 25 thank the committee, indeed I thank everyone here for

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Page 179 1 the privilege of coming to register my dissent this 2 afternoon -- I thought I was going to be on this 3 morning -- but this afternoon to express my 4 dissatisfaction with our having to be here. 5 See, I had planned to be at the College 6 of the Mainland today, where we were going to learn 7 about grass roots organization and political 8 participation in the neighborhoods. I really wish I had 9 made it to the Mainland, but instead, we got our shots 10 split. I realized that I don't belong to an organized 11 political party, and so here we are. Thank you for 12 allowing me to speak. 13 Who am I? I put on the sheet that you 14 require that I am a retiree. That's not entirely 15 correct. I am being pushed out of a job; as of Monday, 16 I am a retiree. I joined the ranks of the unemployed 17 with so many of my cohorts here who have been out of 18 work for months and months and months since Enron 19 imploded and since globalization has impacted us so 20 terribly. I wonder what we're doing here when we have 21 important things to deal with. 22 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Right! 23 (Applause) 24 MR. FARR: We've got a school budget that 25 has been slashed or defunded to the point where

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Page 180 1 classrooms are going away, teachers are not getting 2 raises. My grandchildren -- my great-grandchildren, 3 will not be able to go to kindergarten unless we pay for 4 their tuition. Now, I know, that's not a big deal. 5 Some people here don't have a place to sleep. I sleep 6 in an air-conditioned bedroom on a waterbed and I go 7 down and work out my tensions in the community's pool, 8 so don't think that I'm styling myself as 9 underprivileged. Ain't it great to be an American? We 10 are the privileged. I recognize that, and I'm grateful 11 for it, and I appreciate all of you who defend that for 12 me in these different elected offices. Thank you so 13 much for your dedication, and thank you for your 14 patience. 15 But truly, I really get impatient when we 16 have a power grab like this Texas Tour. I have never 17 really cared that much for the gentleman, and the longer 18 I watch him, the less I care for him. 19 (Laughter) 20 MR. FARR: I really wish that he would go 21 away or go back to exterminating bugs instead of people. 22 But I'm just at a loss. Had I known I was next in 23 queue, I would have given Mr. Merriman, who can speak, 24 my time. But thank you again for your patience. 25 (Applause)

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Page 181 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 2 questions? Thank you for your testimony. The Chair 3 will now recognize Jim Bowie to testify for 4 Congressional redistricting. If you will give your 5 name, please, Mr. Bowie. 6 MR. BOWIE: Madam Chairman, members of 7 this distinguished committee, fellow neighbors and 8 friends, my name is Jim Bowie. I am a resident of 9 Houston, Harris County, Texas. I'm a member of the 10 Black Republican Council of Texas, and I am here 11 representing the interests of African-American voters, 12 African -- 13 (Booing from audience) 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I would ask that 15 the members of the audience please show the courtesy 16 that you've shown to other people that are speaking and 17 let him speak. 18 MR. BOWIE: I am here representing the 19 interests of African-Americans voters, African-American 20 Republican voters, and members of the Black Republican 21 Council of Texas. Today I speak in support of the 22 special session to redraw Congressional District lines 23 here in Texas. The speakers before and after me will 24 talk about why there is a need for a special session. I 25 will not dwell on that subject. I will speak briefly

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Page 182 1 about the work product from the special session and the 2 desire of our members to see another district that 3 favors the African-American community. 4 We are more than 10% of the Texas 5 population and should have at least 10% of the Texas 6 delegation. We should have at least three members of 7 the Congressional delegation, and we currently have only 8 two. We are underrepresented by a factor of 33%. An 9 additional African-American Congressional representative 10 would make the political playing field level. 11 First, as an African-American, it is 12 important that I start my remarks with a comment about 13 the Voting Rights Act of 1965, as amended. I fully 14 understand your duty to ascertain that there is no 15 dilution of the minority voting strength so that the 16 African-Americans are able to elect minority members to 17 Congress. The law is settled, and it has worked well to 18 produce the number of minority members that we have in 19 Congress today. However, we have a way to go. 20 I am sensitive to the fine line that 21 legislators have to walk in order to meet the 22 requirements of the Voting Rights Act while meeting the 23 duty to reapportion based on demographic and electoral 24 changes. Balancing your duties to the Constitution and 25 staying within the laws and amendments of the Voting

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Page 183 1 Rights Act may be made easier by taking into 2 consideration the political changes that are taking 3 place within the African-American community. 4 During the last two gubernatorial 5 elections, African-Americans cast votes for Republican 6 candidates in historic numbers. We believe this trend 7 will continue. As a result, we believe that in order to 8 meet your duty, the interests of the African-American 9 community will be best served if you take an approach 10 that takes into consideration both communities of 11 interest and race. This is not to minimize the 12 importance of race as a leading factor. We simply want 13 to make certain race is not the only factor. 14 Diversity is occurring within the 15 African-American community in terms of its political 16 views. Take the issue of educational choice. 17 Nationally, according to the Joint Center for Political 18 Studies in Washington D.C., a majority of 19 African-Americans support some form of vouchers in order 20 to provide a better education for their children. One 21 party supports vouchers, the other party does not. 22 Since education is important to all voters, both 23 African-American, Hispanic, Asian and white, when 24 African-American and white voters are separated within 25 neighborhoods in order to meet the Voting Rights Act

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Page 184 1 requirements, the unintended consequences is to pit 2 neighbors against each other, sometimes because their 3 Congressional representatives take opposite views on the 4 issues. 5 African-American voters have no 6 opportunity to make their voices heard on this subject. 7 In the interests of racial representation, -- in the 8 interests of racial representation, we have to give up 9 our individual preference and watch as our Congressional 10 representatives work against our best interests and the 11 interests of our party. This happens on other social 12 issues such as prayer in schools and the same-sex issue. 13 We believe this happens most often when race is the only 14 factor considered when deciding where to place minority 15 voters. 16 AUDIENCE: Time! 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Audience, I will 18 remember him if it's time. If you'll remember, I gave 19 the other gentleman three more lines. Mr. Bowie -- 20 MR. BOWIE: Yes, and I'll take the three 21 lines. 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And we'll be glad 23 to accept your written testimony. Three more lines. 24 MR. BOWIE: Therefore, we believe the 25 best approach to drawing the redistricting lines is to

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Page 185 1 look at race, yes, but also look at communities of 2 interest and voting patterns within minority groups. 3 The net effect will be more neighborhood cohesion, less 4 racial polarization, and districts that more fairly 5 reflect the growing diversity of political views within 6 minority communities. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, sir. 8 Members, any questions of Mr. Bowie? Thank you for your 9 testimony. 10 MR. BOWIE: Thank you. 11 (Light applause) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair now 13 recognizes Patricia Cabrera to testify against 14 Congressional redistricting. 15 MS. CABRERA: Thank you. My name is 16 Patricia Cabrera, and I'm director of an educational 17 program for the Mexican American Legal Defense and 18 Educational Fund. The regional office of MALDEF in 19 San Antonio has a responsibility for monitoring state 20 policy that impacts the Mexican community. I'm here to 21 read a statement prepared by the legal and policy part 22 of our organization. 23 Since 1968, MALDEF has headed a legal 24 effort to increase Latino political participation in the 25 State of Texas. MALDEF has litigated and advocated for

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Page 186 1 the creation of Latino majority districts in Texas 2 through the 1970, 1980, 1990, and 2000 redistricting 3 cycles. As a nonpartisan organization, MALDEF does not 4 advocate for redistricting plans that favor one party 5 over another. MALDEF seeks, consistently and 6 objectively, redistricting plans that provide a fair 7 opportunity for Latino voters to elect their candidates 8 of choice. 9 MALDEF's analysis focuses on three 10 aspects of redistricting important to the Latino 11 community: The expansion of Latino electoral 12 opportunities through the creation of Latino majority 13 districts, respecting the boundaries of Latino 14 communities of interest, and adherence to the 15 traditional redistricting criteria. 16 Based on our analysis, MALDEF has 17 concluded that this redistricting plan creates no new 18 Latino minority districts, unnecessarily divides South 19 Texas counties with large Latino populations, and does 20 not follow traditional redistricting criteria in Houston 21 when compared to the current plan. 22 Why is the focus on the Latino population 23 of importance to the whole state? According to the 2000 24 census, the Latino population of Texas is 32% of the 25 population at 6,669,666. The Latino voting age

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Page 187 1 population of Texas is 29% of the total voting age 2 population in Texas. Latino registered voters comprise 3 20% of all registered voters in the state. The Texas 4 Latino population grew by 52% over this past decade, 5 increasing by 2.3 million. By contrast, Anglos 6 increased by only 600,000. Because Latinos comprised 7 16% of the state's voters since 1990, Latinos are 8 actually responsible for Texas gaining one or both of 9 its new Congressional seats. Latinos want a fair 10 redistricting plan. 11 The Voting Rights Act of 1965 protects 12 the voting rights of racial and ethnic minorities, not 13 just against the outright denial of the right to vote 14 but also against practices that have the effect of 15 denying or diluting minority voting power. We urge the 16 committee members to consider only those redistricting 17 plans that will comply with the Voting Rights Act. In 18 addition to ensuring that any future redistricting plan 19 does not discriminate against Latinos, we urge you to 20 consider what would be a fair number of Latino majority 21 districts for this state. In much of the talk during 22 2003, redistricting has focused on proportionality. For 23 example, creating districts that are in proportion to 24 the amount of voters in the state. 25 To the extent that either political party

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Page 188 1 advocates or has set aside the districts based on either 2 Democratic or Republican votes in the state, we urge 3 legislators to consider that Latinos, who make up a 4 third of the state's population, are disproportionately 5 underrepresented with only 32% of the state's districts. 6 Latinos are taxpayers too. 7 Finally, we urge the committee members to 8 recognize that if the state is going to pay upwards of 9 $1.7 million for a redistricting special session, that 10 Latinos have contribute at least one-third of this tax 11 money and Latinos expect their fair share of 12 representation in any new redistricting plan. MALDEF is 13 concerned with the participation of Latinos in the 14 process. We know the numbers are a challenge, but we 15 celebrate every new Latino that becomes a citizen and 16 makes the attempt to vote. 17 And we would like to remind the 18 supporters of this plan that people will always 19 participate. If they're not allowed to participate 20 positively, they will participate negatively. We would 21 just like to be part of the process to address our 22 issues and be part of the solution and not always 23 referred to as part of the problem. Thank you. 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you for your 25 testimony. Members who have questions? I recognize

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Page 189 1 Representative Luna. If you could stay at the podium, 2 we have a couple of questions. Thank you. 3 Representative Luna? 4 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Ms. Cabrera, you 5 mentioned that in regard to Houston, you felt there was 6 a violation. Which map are you referring to? 7 MS. CABRERA: I couldn't answer exactly 8 on that, but the office that has prepared the study and 9 the analysis is our San Antonio office and the policy 10 staff. I'm not sure what map that they were working on. 11 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Okay. But there is 12 a concern regarding one of the maps' proposal for 13 Houston. Were there any other specific areas of concern 14 that they identified on the map? 15 MS. CABRERA: For Houston, it was in Gene 16 Green's area, and in the Valley it was the -- 17 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: 15, the one that's 18 real funny that goes up, probably, right? Okay. 19 And also, how -- how would MALDEF propose 20 to deal with -- in trying to achieve what you're 21 suggesting, which is one-third representation, 22 proportional representation because of the population 23 and the voting age and so on, how would you achieve that 24 in areas of the state where the Latino population is not 25 as condensed as it is, for example, on the border or in

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Page 190 1 San Antonio? 2 MS. CABRERA: Could you rephrase that 3 question? 4 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Sure. In places 5 where the Latino population is more dispersed, where 6 it's not so compact, how would you achieve attaining a 7 proportional representation? In other words, there are 8 some places where the districts are easier to draw 9 because the population is more compact, and there what 10 we need to do is guard against packing and so on. 11 So in other parts of the state where 12 there is a growing population of Latinos that is not all 13 in one area, how would you achieve that? 14 MS. CABRERA: With the population in 15 Texas, I know that we were concerned more with those 16 areas where we can demonstrate that the concentration of 17 Latinos would justify having a district that is 18 representative of the Latino community. We know we have 19 areas where, because they're so dispersed, that that 20 won't be possible. But just with the population we 21 have, what we -- we realize that we could possibly have 22 two additional districts that would be Latino. 23 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: And where would 24 you recommend -- MALDEF would recommend one coming out 25 of the South Texas area, correct?

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Page 191 1 MS. CABRERA: One in the South Texas area 2 and one in the Dallas area. 3 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Right. And has 4 MALDEF drawn a map for the Dallas area proposal? 5 MS. CABRERA: I believe they do have one, 6 but I'm not sure. 7 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Okay. Thank you. 8 It would be helpful if you would ask the MALDEF folks 9 to, unless they've submitted a map -- have they 10 submitted a map for today? 11 MS. CABRERA: What I submitted were the 12 speaking points and the drawing from the contact person 13 in San Antonio. I'm sure they would have that 14 information available for you. 15 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Okay, very good. 16 Thank you very much. 17 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Madam Chair? 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 19 Noriega. 20 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 21 Ms. Cabrera, just for the record, you're basically the 22 local educational specialist for MALDEF and not the 23 redistricting specialist for MALDEF. Is that correct? 24 MS. CABRERA: Right. MALDEF has 25 educational programs also, so our office in San Antonio

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Page 192 1 is policy and legal. 2 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I want to thank 3 you and MALDEF for being here and reading that statement 4 into the record. 5 But just to make it absolutely clear, 6 it's my understanding that your argument, as it dealt 7 with the issue of proportionality, had to do with if you 8 took the logic that's been presented as a reason for 9 redistricting -- we are X number that have voted, we are 10 the Martian party that voted, we are so many percent 11 that voted -- so when you use that proportionality 12 argument, "we are this, therefore we deserve this," then 13 the comment, as I heard it, was just a remark that, 14 well, if you're going to take that logic to its natural 15 conclusion, then Latinos, as 30% of the state 16 population, should get 30% of the Congressional 17 districts. 18 That was the -- it was a hypothetical 19 argument given the arguments that have been presented of 20 why we're doing redistricting. That was my 21 understanding. Is that correct? 22 MS. CABRERA: Exactly. 23 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And it's not 24 actually that it can actually be done because of those 25 issues, the Voting Rights Act and the various court

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Page 193 1 cases and et cetera. It was just, "Well, if you're 2 going to make this argument, you could also assume that 3 argument as well. That was my understanding. Is that 4 correct? 5 MS. CABRERA: I think that's right, yes. 6 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Okay. I had 7 another question. I just want to make sure for the 8 record as well that under the plan that was passed by 9 the House, that Ms. Luna voted for, there was not an 10 increase in any Latino seat. Is that correct? 11 MS. CABRERA: Exactly. 12 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 13 MS. CABRERA: Thank you. 14 (Applause) 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Are there any other 16 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 17 The Chair will now recognize Gilbert 18 Adams to testify against Congressional redistricting. 19 MR. ADAMS: Good afternoon, Madam Chair, 20 members of the committee who are here. I am Gilbert 21 Adams. I am a U.S. citizen, a Texan, a father of five 22 children, a husband of one, and I'm a lawyer and a 23 rancher, in no particular order. 24 But today I want to rise to speak against 25 this bad idea of redistricting, and I think it really is

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Page 194 1 a bad, bad idea. Redistricting was done in '01, and it 2 was done the way the Republicans wanted it done. They 3 didn't want the Senate, the Texas-controlled Senate to 4 come out with the bill; they wanted it to go into the 5 redistricting board where they had four Republicans 6 there and one Democrat and they had a majority and 7 they'd get what they wanted. And they got what they 8 wanted, and of course everyone knew it was going to be 9 appealed and it went to the court, finished going all 10 the way to the Supreme Court; and that's the highest 11 court in the land, and it's basically Republican, so 12 you'd think that was over. 13 There's not a one of you, there's not a 14 one in this room, who has ever had to participate in a 15 redistricting, a second redistricting, after a 16 redistricting had been approved by the Supreme Court 17 just one year earlier. This is totally out of line. 18 It's wrong. It's a power grab. Its only basis that's 19 been enunciated for having this is because some 20 Republicans don't think that they're winning enough 21 elections. 22 Well, if every time we have elections 23 here in Texas and it goes from one political party to 24 another and the political parties that are in power are 25 going to decide they're not winning enough elections and

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Page 195 1 we're going to have redistricting, or even if we wait 2 another year or so and Bush decides to call another 3 special election, this state will be in a total turmoil. 4 The voters will be in turmoil. The public will be in 5 turmoil. The elected officials will be in turmoil. 6 I'm a County Chair. I've been a County 7 Chair in Jefferson County since '88. It takes time for 8 the public to get to know their elected officials and 9 their elected officials' staff. It takes time to find 10 out what Congressional District they're in and to know 11 names, and it takes time for the elected officials and 12 their staffs to get to know the public. And this is not 13 something that should be changing every two years or 14 three years or four years, and not sooner than 10 years 15 unless there is some compelling reason that's been 16 enunciated by a court or some emergency or other unusual 17 occurrence. This does not exist here. 18 When we got here this morning, we were 19 asked to look at a map that's supposed to reflect the 20 matters that we were to discuss. Two hours into the 21 meeting we learned that, oh, no, that's not something 22 that we are to be taking any faith in or believe has any 23 credibility. "We just want you to discuss redistricting 24 in general." 25 Well, I can't let pass what has been put

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Page 196 1 out and the way that it affects Jefferson County. 2 Jefferson County has never had more than one 3 Congressman. Our population has been stable for 40 4 years. We have always had a Congressman that 5 represented the entire county. The plan that's been 6 floated is a plan that is -- it takes Anglo Republicans 7 in the northern part of the county and puts them up into 8 No. 1, Congressional District 1, which is a rural 9 timber/farm area. 10 Jefferson County is industrial. It has 11 chemical plants, it has refineries, it has ports, and 12 it's been that way for 100 years. This plan, this plan 13 traps, packs, and zips up minorities in Jefferson 14 County, and it's wrong. It is wrong for Anglo 15 Republicans, it is wrong for minorities, and it is wrong 16 for this county. Thank you. 17 (Applause) 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you for your 19 testimony. Members, do you have any questions? 20 We do have questions, if you could come 21 back to the podium. 22 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I have one quick 23 question, Mr. Adams. In your opinion, as it applies to 24 Jefferson County, it is your opinion the way Jefferson 25 County is run through Chambers County, is connected to

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Page 197 1 Pleasantville, is connected to the Fifth Ward, is 2 connected to Acres Homes, is it your opinion that the 3 sole purpose of the creation of the 9th Congressional 4 District is to elect a black Congressperson? 5 MR. ADAMS: It could be. It's been said 6 that that's the purpose. I haven't talked to anybody 7 that will stand up and say they're the author of 8 anything, even in this room. People have described that 9 particular district that's been floated as a rat lying 10 down with a tail going all up in Harris County someplace 11 to get a number of -- to trap a bunch of minorities put 12 into that district. 13 Now, their motives -- we need to call on 14 the people. I don't know where they are. I don't know 15 why they won't honorably stand up and answer the 16 questions, "Yes, this is what we propose, yes, this is 17 why we did it, this is why it's an emergency, this is 18 why we've got to spend $7 million to do it." 19 This is bad. This is bad. It's bad 20 policy, and it is a terrible, terrible tragedy that you 21 are wasting your time and you're wasting our time. I 22 got up at 5:15 to come over here, and this is a waste! 23 It is a waste! 24 (Cheering and applause) 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you.

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Page 198 1 The Chair will now recognize Barbara 2 Stanley to testify. Barbara. And the next few, if 3 you'll be ready, Cecil Dorsey will be next, then Ray 4 Hill, then Willie E. Thornton, and then Court Koenning, 5 if you will be ready to testify in that order. 6 Go ahead, if you will start and give your 7 name for the record and who you're with, thank you. 8 MS. STANLEY: I'm Barbara Stanley, and I 9 came here today to tell you how offended I am that 10 Texans' money and Texans' time is being used in a matter 11 that will only aggrandize a Washington politician. The 12 purpose of redistricting is to adjust for population 13 changes from the census. The reason for -- 14 (Applause) 15 MS. STANLEY: -- having a census and the 16 subsequent redistricting is not political, although it's 17 hard to separate it from its political impact. But the 18 purpose is to readjust the numbers for population growth 19 and population shifts. 20 After the 2000 census, the Texas 21 Legislature redistricted all of the state legislative 22 and Congressional district lines and used the full 23 panoply of the law that was allowed there. Governor 24 Rick Perry at that point refused to call a special 25 session to deal with Congressional redistricting, saying

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Page 199 1 it was a waste of money. That's right. It's still a 2 waste of money. 3 (Cheering and applause) 4 MS. STANLEY: This unprecedented special 5 session to redistrict in the middle of a decade gets us 6 nowhere. There is no court order. There is no uprising 7 mandate from the people to change their Congressional 8 lines. It's being done as a divisive -- an effort that 9 will surely help the partisan and personal ambitions of 10 a few but will not benefit Texans as a whole. 11 (Applause) 12 MS. STANLEY: There is nothing wrong with 13 the lines as they are currently drawn. The Republicans' 14 own expert said that 20 of the current districts favor 15 Republicans. It is important for the concept of 16 governments that you have districts that can go one way 17 or the other. Otherwise, if you have packing, if you 18 have everybody that is solely of a like mind or of like 19 constituency in one district, you have no opportunity to 20 develop consensus. You have no opportunity for 21 neighbors to debate issues and come to an agreement on 22 the various problems that people have and the ideas that 23 are different across the state and across the nation. 24 So packing is prohibited under the 25 Constitution, but there's a good reason for that; and

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Page 200 1 the concept of redistricting needs to keep in mind the 2 concept of governments. How is it that we develop a 3 consensus and how is it that we bring people together so 4 that we can agree on the way that our government should 5 go in the future? 6 There is no reason to consider 7 redistricting in the midst of a decade. There is no 8 reason for an expensive special session when we're 9 cutting funds to our most vulnerable citizens. The 10 president's balance of power is not an issue; the only 11 purpose is to increase Tom DeLay's personal power. 12 My 87-year-old mother is a Republican, 13 and she asked me to tell you that she too is offended by 14 what she considers to be a crude play. Please, I ask 15 the state representatives that are here today to please 16 share with your colleagues in the Senate, in the Texas 17 Senate, the intensity of the spirit and the intensity of 18 the feeling that has been demonstrated here today, 19 because we understand that the Senate plays a critical 20 role in this process as well. 21 We thank you for listening. 22 (Applause) 23 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 24 questions? Representative Noriega? 25 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. Real

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Page 201 1 quick, you had mentioned about how the Republican expert 2 said there were 20 Republican districts under the 3 current plan that was certified by the U.S. Supreme 4 Court? 5 MS. STANLEY: Yes, sir. They said there 6 were 20 districts that were favorable to Republicans. 7 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: That were 8 favorable, okay. Were you aware that one of those was 9 's district, where statewide Republicans won 10 with an average of 58%? 11 MS. STANLEY: I was not aware of that. 12 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Were you aware 13 that in Representative 's district, statewide 14 Republicans won by 56%? 15 MS. STANLEY: I was not aware of that. 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Were you aware 17 that in Ralph Hall's district, statewide Republicans won 18 by 57.8%? 19 MS. STANLEY: I was not aware of that. 20 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Were you aware 21 that in Nick Lampson's district, statewide Republicans, 22 except for the exception of John Sharp, won with 52%? 23 MS. STANLEY: I was aware of that. 24 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Chet Edwards, 25 statewide Republicans won 62%? Were you aware of that?

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Page 202 1 MS. STANLEY: No, I was not aware of 2 that. 3 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Were you aware 4 in Charlie Stenholm's district, statewide Republicans 5 got 67%? Every Republican in each of those districts 6 statewide won those districts, except for their 7 Congresspersons, under the plan that was certified by 8 the Justice Department and the United States Supreme 9 Court. Were you aware of that? 10 MS. STANLEY: I was not, but that does 11 seem to support the expert that said that those 20 12 districts favored Republicans; and if they can't win a 13 Congressional seat, it has to do with the campaign and 14 not the district. 15 (Cheering and applause) 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Also, there was 17 one Republican Congressperson that won in -- a 18 Congressional Congressperson that won where the 19 statewide -- where Democrats won. Do you know whose 20 district that was? 21 MS. STANLEY: I do not. 22 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: That was Henry 23 Bonilla. 24 MS. STANLEY: And his district is 25 threatened by the new plan?

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Page 203 1 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Well, he would 2 be moved into a -- he would be threatened in the 3 Republican primary because he's moving into a 4 predominantly Anglo district, under the plan that was 5 passed out by the House committee. 6 MS. STANLEY: Thank you. 7 (Applause) 8 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Any other 9 questions, members? 10 Cecil Dorsey, will you come forward, 11 please? Cecil Dorsey? 12 Ray Hill? Please state your name for the 13 record, please, and proceed. 14 MR. HILL: I will, thank you. Thank you, 15 honorable members of the committee, other honorable 16 members of the House in the room. My name is Ray Hill, 17 and I'm a community organizer -- 18 (Applause) 19 MR. HILL: -- in a village within Houston 20 known as the Montrose, where I have lived for most of my 21 adult life. I am currently represented in the United 22 States Congress by Sheila Jackson Lee. 23 (Applause) 24 MR. HILL: I'm represented in the Texas 25 House of Representatives by Garnet Coleman. I am

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Page 204 1 represented in the Texas Senate by . I am 2 represented in Harris County Commissioners Court by El 3 Franco Lee, and I am represented in 4 by Ada Edwards. You might notice that if you take all 5 those people and me, I am the lightest complected of the 6 bunch. 7 (Laughter and light applause) 8 MR. HILL: However, I have always been 9 white. I don't suppose for some people that I've been 10 white enough. 11 (Laughter) 12 MR. HILL: But I will never be white 13 enough to be represented by Representative Culberson. 14 That is just a fact of life. 15 (Applause) 16 MR. HILL: I know Representative 17 Culberson from the Texas Legislature. I worked as a 18 lobbyist over there and have known him for many, many 19 years. That man cannot represent Montrose, Texas. That 20 is not humanly possible. 21 (Cheering and light applause) 22 MR. HILL: As the history of our 23 representation, before there was Sheila, there was Craig 24 Washington. Before there were Craig Washington, there 25 was George "Mickey" Leland. And before there was George

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Page 205 1 "Mickey" Leland, there was the sainted Barbara Jordan. 2 We have been the best represented people in this state. 3 (Cheering and applause) 4 MR. HILL: We can't go back to some kind 5 of schedule. But let me tell you something about my 6 political family. I am a descendant of the Hills and 7 the Taylors, and those folks have been politicians for 8 generations. 9 We were run out of England not because we 10 were Catholics, but we were supportive of a Catholic 11 cause when it was unpopular to be Catholic in England in 12 the 17th century. We were run out of Georgia not 13 because we were Cherokee, but we were supportive of the 14 Cherokee people keeping their land and so they run us 15 out of there. We were run out of Texas during the 16 period when Texas seceded from the union because we 17 weren't slavers and we weren't secessionists and we had 18 to wait that one out somewhere else and come back. 19 So we're the kind of political family 20 that has always rubbed the cat hair the wrong direction, 21 and I am the first member of both of my families who did 22 not push a mule through East Texas topsoil to earn a 23 living, and so I am concerned about rural representation 24 in Texas. And if you look at this map -- I know it's 25 not the real map. There are no real maps here.

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Page 206 1 (Laughter, cheering and applause) 2 MR. HILL: But if you look at this map, 3 you will find that concentrations of populations near 4 urban areas are compacted with and stretched across 5 large rural areas so that the elected officials in the 6 United States House of Representatives will all come 7 from a majority urban population electorate. 8 If we have nobody representing Texas 9 agriculture in Washington, D.C., then who is going to be 10 concerned about the important agricultural elements of 11 the Texas economy? Who is going to be concerned about 12 the markets, international shipment of grains and other 13 foodstuffs? Who is going to be concerned about the 14 constant changes going on in animal husbandry? Who is 15 going to be concerned about Texas' deep involvement in 16 an agricultural economy that feeds this nation in such a 17 way that it does? 18 You cannot ignore all of those people who 19 live in harmony with the change of seasons and depend 20 upon the fertility of nature so that we can continue to 21 be healthy and prosper. Thank you very much for your 22 time. 23 (Applause) 24 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Willie Thornton? 25 Court Koenning?

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Page 207 1 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Speak up. 2 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: We can't hear you. 3 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: If you'd just state 4 your name, please. 5 MR. KOENNING: Court Koenning. I'm here 6 to represent myself, and I am for the redistricting 7 plan. Madam Chair, before I get into -- and Chair 8 members, before I get into my remarks, I'd like to speak 9 a little off-the-cuff and say it appears that I've 10 walked into a Democratic Party rally. 11 We sat here since 9:00 o'clock, those in 12 favor of redistricting sat here since 9:00 o'clock and 13 we were respectful of the speakers, and I would just ask 14 that they would be respectful of those that have 15 differing opinions with them and allow them to finish 16 their remarks. 17 (Applause) 18 MR. KOENNING: I want to make some brief 19 remarks on my personal feelings about it, and then I 20 also wanted to discuss some of the points brought up by 21 previous speakers, if at all possible, some of the 22 questions that Representative Noriega was talking about 23 earlier today. 24 First of all, thank you for taking your 25 responsibility seriously today. There are members of

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Page 208 1 both parties sitting on this panel, and that just shows 2 how this process works. We appreciate you taking the 3 time to come down here to listen to the views of all 4 these people, some for, some against. 5 The responsibility for redistricting, 6 it's obvious it rests with the legislature. It's in the 7 Constitution. It's specifically spelled out that the 8 legislature shall apportion districts after every 9 census. That has not happened since the 1990 census. 10 Let me be clear on that. The 1991 11 legislature that was run by the Democratic Party, the 12 Democratic Party had the majority, failed to live up to 13 that responsibility, not only on Congressional districts 14 but also on Senate and House districts. 15 The Constitution allows for the 16 Legislative Redistricting Board to deal with state House 17 and state Senate lines but does not allow them to deal 18 with Congressional lines. They wrote the Senate and 19 House lines and then the other process had to go -- the 20 Congressional lines had to go through the court system. 21 Now, the court, in their order, 22 specifically spelled out that they had no ability to be 23 able to look at racial lines, political lines, anything 24 as it relates to the makeup of districts, only that they 25 could balance out populations. They shoved two more

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Page 209 1 Congressional districts into the State of Texas and 2 balanced out the population; and then in their order, 3 they said, "We expect the legislature to handle this 4 issue." You didn't do it in the last session, and 5 that's important to say. 6 Everybody is here talking about the 7 $1.7 million it's going to take to do this, but the 8 reason why it's costing $1.7 million is that check was 9 written in the 1991 legislative session when you failed 10 to do it, and it was signed when you went to Ardmore, 11 . 12 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Yeah! 13 (Light applause) 14 MR. KOENNING: I want to allow -- I don't 15 want to take up too much time, I just -- so I don't run 16 out of time here, I just wanted to do a couple of 17 things. 18 Representative Noriega, you had mentioned 19 that this is not required. The only thing that is 20 required of the legislature to do is to write a budget 21 every session; so under that theory, the only thing that 22 you guys should do when you go to Austin is write a 23 budget and advocate everything else to the federal 24 courts. If that is what you're saying, which I hope 25 you're not, I don't believe you're representing your

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Page 210 1 constituents well. 2 What I would ask is when the Democrat 3 representatives and the senators go to Austin, they 4 submit a map, submit a plan, offer an amendment, get 5 involved in the debate, represent your constituents, and 6 be a part of this process. Because like Representative 7 Wilson said earlier, there will be a map, and in that 8 map that's passed out, will your constituents be served? 9 Also, it was said that this is 10 unprecedented. That's not true. This year, Colorado 11 did the same thing, and it's -- the reason why some have 12 said -- it is unprecedented in the State of Texas, but 13 it's also unprecedented when the House -- 51 members of 14 the House take off to Ardmore, Oklahoma, so as to not 15 allow the legislature to work. That is what is 16 unprecedented. 17 (Applause) 18 MR. KOENNING: Representative Noriega, 19 you also said earlier in some of your questionings that 20 the editorial boards in some of the newspapers in the 21 State of Texas suggest Rick Perry call a special session 22 in 2001 and he said it was going to waste too much money 23 at that time. Well, I applaud him for not calling a 24 special session at that time, because if you will 25 remember, because the legislative lines were not drawn

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Page 211 1 at that time, you had a lame duck session. 2 You had a lame duck House and Senate that 3 would have been called back in because the Legislative 4 Redistricting Board had already drawn the new House and 5 Senate lines. And if you had called the legislature 6 back into session with members that probably were not 7 going to be reelected, that would have been a lame duck 8 session. That's the bigger reason why he didn't call a 9 session at that time. 10 That's the points that I had to make, and 11 I will welcome questions from the panel. 12 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Members, any 13 questions of Mr. Koenning? Representative Talton. 14 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: Sir, are you 15 aware -- you said Colorado is one that did redraw, but 16 were you aware that New Mexico attempted it? 17 MR. KOENNING: I was not. 18 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: You might want to 19 check on the Internet. They attempted it and it stopped 20 in what we call our conference committee. 21 MR. KOENNING: I would hope that every 22 state that has Congressional, state, Senate lines or 23 whatever drawn by elected federal judges would all let 24 their legislature do it. 25 I think the members back here or the

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Page 212 1 audience back here that is clapping for being opposed to 2 redistricting, if the tables were turned they would be 3 for redistricting, there's no doubt about it. 4 (Booing from audience) 5 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Speak for yourself, 6 not me. 7 MAN IN AUDIENCE: It's his turn at the 8 mike. Leave him alone. 9 (Shouting, unintelligible) 10 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 11 Noriega has the floor. 12 (Gavel) 13 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Let's let everyone 14 have their turn. Representative Noriega has the floor. 15 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I just want sort 16 of a point of clarification, Mr. Koenning. Did you say 17 that the court had ordered the legislature to -- 18 MR. KOENNING: No, I did not say that. 19 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Is that what you 20 said? 21 MR. KOENNING: No, I did not say that. I 22 said in their order it said, "We expect the legislature 23 to do this." I'm paraphrasing, but that was essentially 24 what they said. 25 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: You're saying

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Page 213 1 essentially and you're paraphrasing, but what does the 2 words say? Do you have it? 3 MR. KOENNING: I don't have it in front 4 of me. If you have it with you, if you want to read 5 it -- 6 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Though I haven't 7 read it, it does not instruct -- 8 (Parties speaking simultaneously.) 9 MR. KOENNING: I didn't say it 10 instructed -- 11 (Gavel) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The court reporter 13 cannot record -- if you're talking, one person has to be 14 speaking. Representative Noriega has the floor to ask 15 questions, please. 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Are you aware 17 that in 1991 that the legislature did pass plans for the 18 House, the Senate and the Congress? 19 MR. KOENNING: Yes, I was. 20 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Okay. And those 21 plans went through the process. And that in 1996, in 22 fact, the court did instruct the House or the 23 legislature to redistrict, and it did not comply. Are 24 you aware of that? 25 MR. KOENNING: I am aware of that. And

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Page 214 1 to expand on that question, I would say the reason why 2 that they asked them to do it is because they threw some 3 districts out as illegal, illegally drawn districts that 4 were drawn in the '91 legislature. 5 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: They were viewed 6 to be racially gerrymandered, correct? 7 MR. KOENNING: Exactly, by the party in 8 power at the time. 9 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And in 2001, the 10 governor of the state, currently the sitting governor, 11 also had the discretion to call a special session to 12 redistrict at that time, did he not? 13 MR. KOENNING: And again, question asked 14 and answered. I said that the reason he didn't call one 15 is because -- 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: No, no, I just 17 asked if he did or he didn't. 18 MR. KOENNING: He didn't, and the reason 19 why he did not is because you had a lame duck session. 20 Many of your friends -- 21 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Actually, I 22 would suggest to you that the process, perhaps, given 23 that it was a lame duck and that there were no political 24 ties, may at that point have been a fairer process than 25 it is today.

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Page 215 1 (Cheering and applause) 2 (Gavel) 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Please -- 4 MR. KOENNING: The Constitution does not 5 call for that. The Constitution does not call for 6 districts to be drawn by a group of members who may not 7 return. 8 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: The Constitution 9 calls for a process, and that process has been honored 10 in the maps that had been held from elections -- a duly 11 held election that's been certified by the Supreme 12 Court. 13 MR. KOENNING: Then in that theory you 14 should not have redistricting in the next eight years. 15 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: We shouldn't 16 have it probably in the United States, either. 17 (Cheering) 18 MR. KOENNING: Representative, if that 19 theory holds true, then what's good that happened in 20 Florida is not good to happen in Texas and vice versa. 21 We are not suggesting that we're against, 22 necessarily, what the court did. We are suggesting that 23 the legislature has the authority to do that, regardless 24 if we think the -- 25 (Parties speaking simultaneously.)

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Page 216 1 MR. KOENNING: Hold on a second. Hold on 2 a second, if you will give me a second to finish. If 3 the districts that were drawn by the courts -- we're 4 suggesting that they may be legal, but they were 5 drawn -- they should be drawn by the legislature, that's 6 what we're saying. Not that courts are bad, they should 7 be drawn by the legislature. 8 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: It is not 9 certainly not to infer -- infer the duty or rather the 10 prerogative of the legislature. It's the prerogative, 11 whether or not the legislature does it or does not do 12 it. 13 And actually, at this point the governor 14 has determined that we will do it. The governor has 15 determined that we will do it based on a called special 16 session. 17 MR. KOENNING: And on that point, I think 18 it's very uncomfortable if you decide which issues 19 you're willing to deal with and which issues you're not. 20 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Do you accept 21 the fact that this is unprecedented? 22 MR. KOENNING: I do. And I also accept 23 the fact that when you ran off to Ardmore, that was 24 unprecedented. 25 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: I knew it.

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Page 217 1 (Applause) 2 MR. KOENNING: Would you not agree if you 3 did not go to Ardmore and you dealt with this in the 4 regular session that there would be no need for a 5 special session? 6 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: We disagreed 7 with it then, we disagree with it now. 8 MR. KOENNING: Okay. But would you agree 9 the point is, if you dealt with it then, you would not 10 need to deal with it now? 11 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: We did deal with 12 it then. 13 (Cheering and applause) 14 MR. KOENNING: You dealt with it by 15 leaving. 16 MAN IN AUDIENCE: You ran away. 17 MR. KOENNING: You dealt with it by 18 leaving. That is not what your constituents voted for 19 you to do. 20 (Shouting, unintelligible) 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 22 Luna. 23 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Madam Chair, with 24 the deepest and most sincere respect for my colleagues 25 and also for the witness, we have a lot of folks that

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Page 218 1 still want to testify. And I don't really know, with 2 all due respect to everyone, that we need to get into 3 this particular discussion at this particular hearing. 4 So if I could kindly, gently suggest to 5 my colleague if there are other questions directly on 6 point to redistricting that we can ask that the witness 7 would like to respond to, but otherwise I really feel 8 like there's an awful lot of people waiting here and I 9 think we ought to try to get on to some other testimony. 10 (Applause) 11 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 12 MR. KOENNING: Thank you. 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you for your 14 testimony. Members, any other questions? Thanks. 15 (Representative Noriega and Mr. Koenning 16 shake hands.) 17 (Applause) 18 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Way to go, Rick! 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will now 20 recognize Joseph Jaworski, who is with the City of 21 Galveston City Council, to testify against Congressional 22 redistricting. And if you will just give your name and 23 who you are with for the record, please. 24 MR. JAWORSKI: Thank you very much. Joe 25 Jaworski, Councilman, District 3, City of Galveston.

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Page 219 1 (Applause) 2 MR. JAWORSKI: I speak to you today first 3 off as a representative of the city council who has 4 empowered myself, both in Austin last month and today, 5 to speak against redistricting for the specific reason 6 that we don't want to lose the Congressman which we have 7 embraced and become very close to, Congressman Nick 8 Lampson. 9 (Applause) 10 MR. JAWORSKI: And it's no secret why, 11 when you have someone as committed as Congressman 12 Lampson, who doesn't even live in Galveston, but you 13 wouldn't know it because he is there. He's omnipresent, 14 he's caring, he's sensitive, his staff is excellent. 15 And as a legislator for a municipal entity, Galveston, 16 let me tell you how valuable the relationship is with 17 Washington through Nick Lampson for our city. 18 I need to only mention the fact that 19 we're a beach community and our sand goes away more 20 often than it comes, and it is through Congressman 21 Lampson's effective leadership that we are able to 22 maintain our ability to be a tourist destination, 23 because our number one attraction is that beach. He 24 also is very helpful to the University of Texas Medical 25 Branch facility, which is our greatest employer and

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Page 220 1 really what put Galveston on the map. 2 Simply two reasons right there that 3 Congressman Lampson has shown that the City of Galveston 4 is a priority to him, and it would be a crying shame, 5 through the political act of redistricting, if we lose 6 that relationship. Thank you, Congressman. 7 Now, look. I'm going to have a little 8 harsher words for y'all speaking as an individual. I'm 9 a 41-year-old attorney, and I have become politically 10 interested within the last 10 years; and what I see 11 happening in this special session troubles me deeply. 12 Let me read to you some notes that I've just scrawled 13 here. 14 To redistrict the state's Congressional 15 District lines on the -- I should say the legislative 16 and Congressional district lines on the directive of Tom 17 DeLay, to me as a Texan, is embarrassing. To redistrict 18 the state's Congressional district lines in a 19 legislative special session called with all the weight 20 and significant and import that a special session 21 conveys is inappropriate. And to redraw these lines 22 with the price tag reported to be over a million dollars 23 plus, which is what a special session apparently costs, 24 especially given the financial disadvantage that so many 25 of our less fortunate citizens find themselves in and to

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Page 221 1 whom legislation in this session did not comfort, is 2 downright mean-spirited. 3 Mr. DeLay's rationale, as I understand 4 it, is this: Texas is Republican, as recent statewide 5 elections show, and so the statewide delegation should 6 be majority Republican as well. Well, Mr. DeLay 7 implies, I guess, that the lines were somehow 8 defectively drawn by the federal judicial panel to whom 9 the task was entrusted in 2001. But you know, he nor 10 anyone can make a showing that the judges did wrong. He 11 quite simply recognizes that might makes right. If 12 that's what he wants, and the legislative process will 13 permit it, then why not make it happen? 14 All right. Now, think for a moment how 15 discouraging this rationale is for the rest of us that 16 are busting our tail every day and recognize that the 17 political system is out there functioning on its own. 18 In the real world, at ground zero, it's very 19 discouraging. 20 Now, with all due respect, folks, let me 21 say this: You don't have to do this. We're good to 22 know until the next decennial census and we know that 23 this session is going to be viscerally divisive, and I 24 wish the governor had not called it. But now that he 25 has, please remember, you don't have to approve this.

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Page 222 1 Thank you. 2 (Cheering and applause) 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Any questions? 4 Thank you for your testimony. 5 The Chair will now recognize Roland 6 Thompson to speak next; and then after Mr. Thompson, we 7 have Brian G-O-E-B, Judy Long, Marcia Tibbets, and I 8 think it's Lynn -- L-E-O-N-A-L Mejia. Those will be the 9 next in order, if you'll be ready to speak. 10 Just give your name and who you're with 11 for the record, please. 12 MR. THOMPSON: My name is Roland 13 Thompson. I'm the first vice president of Pleasantville 14 Civic League Association. As you know, we are one of 15 the -- we are the most largest voting community in the 16 City of Houston within the 610 Loop. I'm so proud to 17 see Senfronia Thompson, our representative, here with 18 us. 19 For myself, I was the third person to 20 sign this morning to speak. Right now it's 10 minutes 21 till 4:00 this afternoon. I stayed here all day to let 22 you know that our community will not and do not want any 23 changes when it comes to the people that are 24 representing us. 25 (Applause)

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Page 223 1 MR. THOMPSON: We've gotten so that our 2 Congresswomen, our mayor, our representatives that come 3 into our community, especially when we need help, 4 they're there. They are there. And if you do what you 5 are -- they are planning on doing, then we will be lost, 6 our children will be lost, our schools will be lost. We 7 don't want that. We do not want that. And remember, 8 the last word is up to us as voters. That's the last 9 word. 10 (Cheering and applause) 11 MR. THOMPSON: Now, I'm not going to take 12 up too much of your time because the time that I have 13 spent all day here, it will be asked of me what was 14 said, what was done, how it was done. A lot of people 15 is in wheelchairs, on crutches and they can't get around 16 and they depend on someone to pass the word to them. 17 And I think it's awful hard for a person to stay all day 18 just to say we do not want this to happen. Thank you. 19 (Applause) 20 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, questions? 21 Representative Talton. 22 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: Mr. Thompson, I'm 23 just curious, who do you think is going to win the 24 mayor's race? 25 MR. THOMPSON: Who am I thinking is going

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Page 224 1 to win the mayor's race? 2 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: Yes, sir. 3 MR. THOMPSON: That remains to be seen at 4 the polls. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mr. Thompson? 6 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Mr. Thompson, 7 real quick. 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 9 Noriega. 10 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: You have been 11 here all day, and thank you for your patience and time. 12 Real quick, people that are familiar with Pleasantville 13 and how that's a community of interest and extremely 14 participatory in the process, under the plan that was 15 passed out by the House Redistricting Committee, do you 16 know or see any community of interest that the community 17 of Pleasantville would have with Jefferson County? 18 MR. THOMPSON: No, I cannot foresee that, 19 because between our community and Jefferson County, you 20 have a vast void in between that; and in between that 21 void and our community, there will be a Houston-based 22 city that's moving within the outer loop of Beltway 8. 23 Eventually what would happen, if this is 24 to take place, community like ours, Third Ward, Fifth 25 Ward, Fourth Ward, will all become the City of Houston.

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Page 225 1 What will that put us? Where will that put us? Where 2 will that put our children? Where will that put our 3 seniors? 4 We are fighting hard with the police 5 department, the fire department, the mayor, the 6 governor, senators, we are fighting with these people in 7 order to keep a range for our tomorrow. That's the only 8 reason that I am here today, because I am trying to look 9 out for our tomorrow. 10 (Applause) 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Any other 12 questions? Thank you, Mr. Thompson. 13 Ryan Kelly, and I believe it's G-O-E-B. 14 Is that correct? Is he here? 15 Judy Long to testify against 16 Congressional redistricting. Judy, if you'll just give 17 your name and who you're with for the record, please. 18 MS. LONG: Good afternoon. My name is 19 Judy Long, and I'm here as a private citizen, and I 20 reside with my family here in Houston in the 25th 21 Congressional District. Thank you so much for your work 22 being here today. I have taken an opportunity to make 23 phone calls and send e-mails, but nothing quite makes up 24 for the opportunity to be able to speak publically in my 25 opposition to the Congressional redistricting.

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Page 226 1 The Democratic process in place, 2 redistricting every 10 years on the basis of the census 3 data, I think is a process that protects us from 4 ourselves and protects us from our worst instincts. We 5 all know that power carries enormous responsibility; to 6 act because you can doesn't make it right or smart. To 7 take the opportunity to shoot yourself in the foot isn't 8 really a good idea or a smart idea. 9 As a city and a state and a nation, we 10 face daunting problems. To call a special session on 11 redistricting, ignoring the more pressing problems that 12 we face, in my opinion, is neither right nor smart. And 13 it's certainly a demonstration of a very poor use of 14 power. I personally am much less concerned about what 15 any map looks like but rather that the elected people in 16 power have placed this issue as its most important issue 17 on the special session agenda. 18 I urge you to take your power as elected 19 officials to work against any redistricting changes in 20 the special session, and really to get on with the 21 business of Texas. Houston and Texas need help, and 22 it's really not about Congressional redistricting. 23 Thank you. 24 (Applause) 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any

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Page 227 1 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 2 The Chair will now recognize Marcia 3 Tibbets, is she here? Mr. Mejia, Leonel Mejia? Carolyn 4 Deranda, is Carolyn here? Sylvia Romano? 5 The Chair will now recognize 6 Representative Senfronia Thompson. 7 (Cheering and applause) 8 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: I not only want 9 to thank this committee for coming to Houston and 10 holding this session, but I want to thank the audience, 11 those who are for and those who are against the plan, 12 for coming here today and expressing their views and 13 letting all of us know how they feel about 14 redistricting. 15 I heard a lot of conversation -- or 16 testimony, rather, about persons who were against the 17 plan, and I've heard some who said that they were for 18 the plan. As a member of the legislature, I can recall 19 about three of these redistricting sessions that I have 20 participated in, thanks to the persons whom I represent 21 to allow me that opportunity; and I do recall that 22 Governor Perry did not call a redistricting special 23 session after 2001. 24 As a matter of fact, on July the 12th of 25 2001, the governor said he was dumping Congressional

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Page 228 1 redistricting in the federal courts. He refused to call 2 a special session, and he went on to say that he 3 believed that a special session just for redistricting 4 would be a waste of taxpayers' money. And those 5 articles appeared in, without any retraction coming from 6 the governor's office, in the Fort Worth Star Telegram, 7 the Houston Post, Dallas Morning News, San Antonio 8 Express, and several other newspapers around the State 9 of Texas. 10 And then, if we go back just a little 11 bit, we'll also find that on February the 24th, Governor 12 Perry said that he won't call a special session to deal 13 with Congressional redistricting. Again, that appeared 14 in the , Dallas Morning News, 15 San Antonio Express, the Fort Worth Star Telegram and 16 all of the papers around the State of Texas, and there 17 were no retractions from the governor's office about 18 this being a statement that may have been taken out of 19 context or he may have been misquoted. 20 In addition to that, the Chief Counsel 21 for justice -- for the former Attorney General, John 22 Cornyn, in the State of Texas argued before the Supreme 23 Court in September 2001 that the governor refusing to 24 call a special session meant that no longer would the 25 legislative branch of government be involved in the

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Page 229 1 redistricting process. 2 I am just as surprised as many persons, 3 as I've found, that we are going back into a special 4 session, even though I know the Constitution gives the 5 governor the prerogative not only to call a special 6 session but to also set the agenda. But it seems this 7 will be the only thing we will be doing in the special 8 session, and that is redistricting for the Congressional 9 levels. 10 It is my understanding from reading many 11 articles and also from hearing the testimony here today, 12 Madam Chairperson, that there are 32 districts in the 13 State of Texas at the Congressional level. There are 20 14 of them, Representative Talton, that are opportunity 15 districts and districts in which Republicans can 16 presently win; and one would wonder whether or not if 17 the 20 districts is not enough, or are you asking for 18 the whole 32? 19 If we look at or think about the current 20 map, and I heard some conversation about the map that 21 was going to be in Jefferson County and coming on into 22 Houston County, and I would just like to know, would 23 that be for a black district? 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Actually, we were 25 not testifying on a map. We just wanted to have

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Page 230 1 everyone's testimony on the current judicial map, the 2 one that Representative King represented, and just have 3 testimony on for and against on any of those and any 4 other maps that can be taken back to the committee. 5 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Okay, then. 6 Well, if I may just talk a little bit about the DeLay 7 map, if you think about Congressman DeLay's map, it 8 seems to me there will be a 9th Congressional District, 9 and that 9th Congressional District is going to be 10 starting or commencing somewhere in Port Arthur, Texas, 11 and it's probably going to go beyond probably Jersey 12 Village; and that's going to be something like 112 miles 13 for a new Congressional district that Tom DeLay's map 14 seems to be showing, and that appears to me to be 15 dividing up a lot of community interests and is also 16 going to be also packing. That appears that it's going 17 to be packing a lot of minorities into a single district 18 in which they would have little or no influence on other 19 districts that will be remaining within the State of 20 Texas. 21 And it has, as you know, this plan that 22 we've talked about being devised by the court during the 23 court proceedings -- the three-judge court that drew 24 these maps were made up of three federal judges, one 25 Republican and two Democrats, and they found the map to

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Page 231 1 be in full compliance with the Voters Right Act and the 2 United States Constitution and to be free of any 3 political biases, and then the Supreme Court of the 4 United States agreed with their decision. 5 If we consider changing the districts, we 6 run the risk that we may redraw maps that may violate 7 the Voters Rights Act and also it would be found 8 unconstitutional and we will be back in a situation 9 where the State of Texas is spending money to defend 10 another map. 11 I know that there is a consensus by many 12 persons that say, "Well, we think that our legislative 13 branch ought to be the one that draws the map, and we 14 don't think that we should be having to live on that map 15 that was drawn by the courts." We just carried it on 16 just a little bit further. We had this court that made 17 a decision on the President of the United States, and 18 maybe we should have demanded that we shouldn't have 19 lived under the court's decision and had another 20 election for the president and we would have never had 21 to live on what the court said. 22 (Applause) 23 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: I just want to 24 mention two things to you and I want to talk about the 25 24th District, Congressional District, that is protected

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Page 232 1 by the Voters Rights Act, and this is the one up in 2 Dallas. And let me give you one example how dangerous 3 it would be for anyone to tinker with the current 4 Congressional map. 5 In the Dallas/Fort Worth area, there are 6 two majority minority districts: The 24th, and we know 7 that Congressman Martin Frost holds that one, and the 8 30th, which is represented by . 9 The Frost territorial district is nearly 65% under the 10 current map, and Eddie Johnson's district, which is the 11 30th, is over 70% minority. Both districts are entitled 12 to protection under the Voters Rights Act because black 13 voters effectively control the outcome of both 14 districts. 15 A recent study of the voting patterns 16 from 2002 showed that candidate roundly carried 17 the district in the primary runoffs and the general 18 election. Ron Kirk was able to carry the 24th District, 19 the Frost District, despite the fact that Hispanic 20 voters preferred Victor Morales and Anglo-voting 21 supporters preferred former Congressman Ken Bentsen; 22 thus both districts are clearly protected under the 23 Voters Rights Act. 24 Do not be fooled, committee members, into 25 believing that the fact that the 24th is represented by

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Page 233 1 an Anglo means it's entitled to less protection than the 2 30th, which is represented by a black. Under the Voters 3 Rights Act, it is not the race of the candidate that 4 matters. It is the right of the voters to elect their 5 preferred candidate that matters. The Supreme Court 6 case that says this is the 1986 decision in Thornbird 7 vs. General. 8 Redistricting the 24th would affect the 9 minority district and would violate the Voting Rights 10 Act and will result in wasteful and costly litigation, 11 and the state will lose; and, of course, most 12 importantly, it's discriminatory and unfair to the black 13 voters in the Metroplex. 14 Can I have some water? 15 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Here's a fresh 16 bottle right here. 17 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Thank you very 18 much. 19 We know that the 24th Congressional 20 District is like the Senatorial District 15. The 21 situation regarding 24th District is remarkably similar 22 to the one faced by the State of Texas in 2002, and at 23 that time the Legislative Redistricting Board was 24 considering redrawing the districts of the House and the 25 Senate. Then-Attorney-General Cornyn had to go to

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Page 234 1 Washington to talk to the Justice Department about the 2 legislative board redistricting proposal. He was asked 3 at the last Legislative Redistricting Board hearing by 4 then-Land-Commissioner Dewhurst if it was true that the 5 Justice Department had said that the 15th Senatorial 6 District, represented then and now by Senator John 7 Whitmire, who is an Anglo, should be protected under the 8 Voter Rights Act because it was a majority minority 9 district, and the Attorney General at that particular 10 time said yes. 11 We all know that every 10 years is when 12 we do the census, and it is hence every 10 years that we 13 do the redistricting across the United States of 14 America. And while I know that there is a majority of 15 my colleagues to the right in office, that does not 16 necessitate the fact that we should be redoing a 17 redistricting plan. I think that what Congressional 18 research shows or the has determined 19 that no legislature anywhere in the country has redrawn 20 Congressional lines in the middle of a decade absent a 21 court order requiring them to do so in the past 50 22 years. 23 Now, if you recall, there was a court 24 order that required us to do some redistricting back 25 some time ago after the three minority seats,

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Page 235 1 Congressional seats, were found to be unconstitutional. 2 And once the court redrew those lines to straighten it 3 out, the court allowed us, if we wanted to, to come back 4 and redraw entire Congressional districts. We had a 5 Democratic majority. We never did do that. We lived 6 under the plan until the plan -- until the plan was 7 changed, and that change was made by the court, and 8 we've still been living under it. 9 It just seems to me that we may be 10 hastening to do something that is totally unnecessary, 11 definitely unprecedented; and I just believe that as 12 much as I'd like to hate to disagree with my governor, I 13 just think that the governor is utilizing the time of 14 the legislature in a most unwise manner. 15 (Applause) 16 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: I would be 17 happy to avail myself for questions from the committee 18 if the committee has any of me. 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 20 questions of Representative Thompson? Representative 21 Luna. 22 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Senfronia, I'm not 23 certain that you're prepared to answer this, and I 24 probably should have asked it of Gary Bledsoe when he 25 was here. But for example, in the Dallas/Fort Worth

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Page 236 1 area where you've got Martin Frost's district, that's 2 predominantly Hispanic? 3 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Yes, it is. 4 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Okay. And then 5 Eddie Bernice's district is predominantly 6 African-American. 7 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Yes, it is. 8 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Do we not have to 9 guard -- if we're going to make changes, do we have to 10 guard against either negatively impacting an 11 African-American opportunity district if we try to 12 create one that's more Hispanic or vice versa? Do we 13 not have to guard against that? 14 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Yeah, 15 particularly on the packing. 16 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Right. So I guess 17 I would ask you -- I didn't ask that question of Gary 18 Bledsoe, so I don't know if there's more formal opinions 19 regarding that. But if you come across something like 20 that, would you do the committee a favor and try to 21 bring some of that information forward? 22 Because I'm concerned that if people 23 start looking at making changes, that in the interest of 24 creating a Latino opportunity district, there would be 25 damage done to an African-American district or vice

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Page 237 1 versa. And I'm not sure what's the best way to handle 2 that, but it would be very helpful if at some point 3 folks could bring that information forward. 4 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: There's also an 5 opportunity for the redistricting plan to be done in 6 such a way that all of the Anglo seats be captured and 7 protected and the only thing that we would have to be 8 considered would be, again, the minority seats. But 9 they would have them locked in; they would have 10 accomplished that goal. They would have been able to 11 lock in their seats, and then the only thing that would 12 be problematic would be the minority seats. 13 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: But Senfronia, I 14 think that the caution there would be, obviously, that 15 if the demographics of the state point to another 16 minority seat, we wouldn't have the opportunity to draw 17 those if we locked in seats or districts that are 18 predominantly Anglo, right? We have to guard against 19 that as well. 20 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: We have to 21 guard against it, but, you know, it could happen. 22 REPRESENTATIVE LUNA: Thank you. 23 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: And my final 24 comment is this: We have found that historically, 25 Democrats vote more with us in Congress than the person

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Page 238 1 to the right; and I'd like to put in the record just 2 that that -- this will be made a part of my testimony 3 and a part of my record, which is the scorecard report 4 card for the Texas Congressional delegation, if I may. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Yes, ma'am. 6 Anything you want to put in the written testimony -- 7 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Anything? Let 8 me just go through my file. 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: You can submit 10 anything you want to put in the written testimony. 11 Members, are there any other questions? 12 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I have one, 13 Madam Chair. 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 15 Noriega. 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Just for 17 clarification, Ms. Thompson, I just want to make sure 18 that what you said, just to restate it, it is possible 19 that a plan could be submitted where the minority 20 districts would be the only ones placed in jeopardy 21 because they could be found to be unconstitutional? 22 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: That's correct. 23 It's possible, and I'm sure this committee would never 24 think of doing such a thing. However -- 25 (Laughter)

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Page 239 1 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: However, they 2 could draw securely -- Anglo districts securely and just 3 leave the minority districts that would only be the ones 4 that would be unconstitutional. And when the plan goes 5 up, it doesn't go up as a total plan where all of the 6 districts would be reviewed; only those districts that 7 would be in contest. That is the thing that we have to 8 guard against also. 9 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 10 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Uh-huh. 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any other 12 questions? 13 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: We call that a 14 sleep movement, and we know that this committee wouldn't 15 do anything like that. 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 17 Representative Thompson. 18 (Applause) 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, the Chair 20 is now going to recognize Ray Hill. He's already been 21 here. He did, I'm sorry. 22 The Chair is going to recognize Larry 23 Carter. Is Mr. Carter here? The Chair will recognize 24 Ronald Getson, G-E-T-S-O-N. The Chair will recognize 25 Charles A. Alcorn, is Mr. Alcorn here? Margaret Jordan?

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Page 240 1 Ms. Jordan here? She is here. 2 And as Ms. Jordan is coming down, the 3 next few, Mark Cattrell, Katherine Arceneaux, Ruth 4 Milburn, Zeb Alford, and Elvia -- and I'm not sure of 5 the spelling -- S-T-O-L -- S-T-O-L-Z-O-U-L-G? 6 Ms. Jordan, if you will give your name 7 for the record and who you're with, please. 8 MS. JORDAN: My name is Margaret Jordan. 9 I'm a clinical psychologist, and I'm speaking as a 10 private citizen. I am testifying against redistricting, 11 and I want to speak with you for a moment about the 12 issue that we're discussing today in terms of human 13 nature. 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I think if you can 15 pull the microphone a little closer, I think the 16 audience may be having trouble hearing you. Thank you. 17 MS. JORDAN: It is human nature to want 18 to feel important and have power in our lives. This is 19 true for all of us. It is also human nature, when we 20 have some power, to want to consolidate it and increase 21 that power. 22 Congressman Tom DeLay has made no secret 23 of the fact that that is his motivation for this 24 redistricting plan, and I understand why he wants what 25 he wants. But just because something is human nature

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Page 241 1 doesn't make it right. Our government and our legal 2 system are based on regulating the harmful aspects of 3 human nature. Throughout human history, people and 4 groups have accumulated excessive power with devastating 5 results. 6 Our country was founded as a democracy on 7 the principle that all people and groups should share 8 power with each other, and with the belief that we are 9 all better off as a whole when checks and balances on 10 power prevent any person or group from gaining too much 11 power over others. 12 At higher levels of moral development, we 13 can acknowledge that we are interdependent as human 14 beings and we can consider others' welfare as important 15 as our own. This is a principle which we should aspire 16 to live by, and it is not the principle on which the 17 redistricting attempt is based. Sharing power for the 18 benefit of all is the true moral basis for our 19 democratic society. I urge you to consider this, and to 20 be open to new ways of thinking about your 21 responsibilities in representing us as you proceed with 22 the decisions ahead of you. Thank you. 23 (Applause) 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 25 Members, any questions? Thank you for your testimony.

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Page 242 1 The Chair will recognize Mark Cattrell, 2 is Mr. Cattrell here? Katherine Arceneaux, is 3 Ms. Arceneaux here? 4 Ruth Milburn? If you'll just give us 5 your name and who you're with, Ms. Milburn, please. 6 MS. MILBURN: Yes. My name is Ruth 7 Milburn. I'm representing Common Cause of Texas, and I 8 serve on the Common Cause board and as chair of the 9 subcommittee of that board which deals with 10 redistricting. 11 Common Cause has been involved in the 12 redistricting process now for four decades in the State 13 of Texas. Our concern is that this process needs to be 14 a process for the people, for the voters of the State of 15 Texas. One of the ways in which we think that can more 16 easily happen is if the initial plans for redistricting 17 are drawn by an independent commission. Such a process 18 has been recommended in three of the last four decades, 19 and Common Cause has supported it. We do believe that 20 the traditional Congressional and constitutional support 21 for one person, one vote, should be the basis for 22 establishing the lines by which Congressional districts 23 are drawn. 24 I would also like to speak very briefly 25 on behalf of myself as a citizen and a resident of the

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Page 243 1 City of Houston currently within Congressional District 2 18; and that is that whatever district plans are 3 considered, I think it is important to recognize that 4 there is a community of interest within the inner loop 5 of the City of Houston. Thank you. 6 (Applause) 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 8 Members, any questions? Thank you for your testimony. 9 The Chair will recognize Zeb Alford. If 10 you'll just give your name and who you're with, please. 11 MR. ALFORD: I'm Zeb Alford, Captain, 12 U.S.N., retired. I'm delighted to be here, because I 13 have an unbelievable trust in our Constitution. Each 14 time I was promoted, from ensign to JG to anything else, 15 I took an oath to defend that Constitution. And today 16 you represent the group that I think has a job tougher 17 than I had running nuclear submarines. 18 You've got to decide how all of us are 19 represented, and the way you have to do it is draw 20 districts like I've never seen anything in my life 21 before. If the Navy did this, we would draw squares and 22 add them up to 700,000 people in it and say that's it. 23 Well, the system doesn't work that way, and I know it 24 doesn't. That's why I wanted to come here and tell you 25 how much I appreciate what you're going through.

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Page 244 1 Now, I didn't consider myself a minority 2 when I was in the Navy, but I'm certainly a minority 3 here. There are six people that raised their hands that 4 are in favor of having this redistricting. Let me tell 5 you why I am. When I came in the Navy, the black people 6 in the Navy were all steward's mates. 7 12 years later, I captained a nuclear 8 submarine. I picked a black master chief petty officer 9 to be the chief of the boat -- that's the most 10 prestigious job on a submarine -- because he was the 11 best leader. Now, how did this come about in 20 years? 12 It came about because the Navy and the submarine force 13 is a meritocracy. You have to know how to do the job or 14 we all drown, okay? So anybody that comes on there, the 15 first thing I saw was we usually had to reeducate them. 16 They would come out of high schools here, there and 17 elsewhere that hadn't taught them very much, but they 18 were teachable, and everybody had to know, since we were 19 on a submarine, what to do, how to do it. You trusted 20 him. I trusted him, the last man, the junior man, as 21 much as I trusted myself. So in 20 years, we had 22 integrated the Navy to the point where people were 23 judged by what they could do. Now, we demanded a lot, 24 but they always came through. 25 This is the America I know, and this is

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Page 245 1 the America I think we can get back to if we do it 2 right, and you're the ones that have to do it right. I 3 thank you for letting me testify. 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 5 Members, any questions? Thank you for your testimony. 6 (Applause) 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The Chair will 8 recognize Alvia -- and I'm not sure -- I cannot read the 9 handwriting. I believe it's S-T-O-L-V-E -- is she here? 10 And Gail, and her's same name S-T-O-L-Z-E-U-B-U-R-G. Is 11 Gail here? 12 Larry Rowles -- I'm sorry, Bowles, 13 B-O-W-L-E-S, Bowles? Is Mr. Bowls here? Felicia 14 Ferrar? Tom Moon, is Mr. Moon here? 15 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Madam Chair, are 16 these persons for or opposed to redistricting? 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Some are for, some 18 are against, and we'll -- you want me to read as I go? 19 I'll be glad to do that. 20 Joan Zinkler, against Congressional 21 redistricting, is Joan here? Joan Terrell? Joan 22 Terrell, against Congressional redistricting. 23 Beverly -- I believe it's S-U-F-I-A-N, against 24 Congressional redistricting. Doug Peterson, 25 Mr. Peterson, against Congressional redistricting. Mary

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Page 246 1 Coke, is Mary here? Against Congressional 2 redistricting. Terry Hausner, I believe it's 3 H-A-U-S-N-E-R -- 4 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: She's left. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: -- against 6 Congressional redistricting. Mark Auerbach, 7 A-U-E-R-B-A-C-H, against Congressional redistricting. 8 Beth Allen, is Ms. Allen here? Against Congressional 9 redistricting. 10 Richard Young, is Mr. Young here? He is 11 for Congressional redistricting. Maureen Jouett has 12 already testified, that's a duplicate. Diane Mosier? 13 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Here. 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If you will come 15 forward and give us your name and tell us who you're 16 with, and Diane, I'm going to call out the next few. 17 Barnham Terrell, Michael Sweeny, Deborah 18 Silverman, Carrie Wilson, and Mary Margaret Hanson. If 19 you're here, if you will come down so you will be close 20 to the mike. If you hear your name, make your way down. 21 MS. MOSIER: My name is Diane Mosier. 22 I'm also the President of the Greater Heights Democratic 23 Club, active in the Heights area. I have lived in the 24 Heights area for over 30 years. 25 I guess I have to identify myself as a

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Page 247 1 fiscal conservative, but I'm certainly a social liberal, 2 or a progressive, whichever one you pick today. I'm a 3 little concerned about the cost of the hearings, but 4 they're already called. There's nothing we can do about 5 that, but I do have an idea for you. You could cut them 6 very short if you have a session to ratify what you 7 already have. 8 If you ratify what you already have, send 9 it up -- as Mr. Kennedy said, if it's a process, it's 10 just about the rules. If the rules were broken and they 11 need to be taken care of, then I would send it up to the 12 Senate with the suggestion that they leave it alone, 13 ratify, it, everybody goes home. Otherwise, I don't 14 know what you're doing about my insurance. 15 My homeowner's insurance has not been 16 taken care of. My car insurance just went up. I have 17 personal items of those natures that are not taken care 18 of. The budget is not done. I do wish that you could 19 do this quickly. Ratify what you have; and when the 20 10-year census comes around and y'all are still in 21 power, you can mess with it then. Thank you. 22 (Cheering and applause) 23 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members have any 24 questions? Thank you for your testimony. Barnham 25 Terrell, is Mr. Terrell here?

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Page 248 1 Mr. Terrell, when you've finished 2 testifying, if you would see the clerk, we need to get 3 you to fill out an affidavit that's actually in pen and 4 not pencil. But go ahead and testify and you can do 5 that when you're finished. 6 MR. TERRELL: There was no pen available. 7 I'm sorry. 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: No, that's fine. 9 Go ahead and testify, and when you're finished you can 10 fill out another one in pen. If you'll just state who 11 you're with and your name, please. 12 MR. TERRELL: My name is Barnham Terrell. 13 I live in the east end of Houston. I am a native Texan 14 with Texan ancestors. If I don't sound like one, it's 15 because my family left Port Arthur when I was a small 16 child. I was gone for more than 70 years. 17 I first became involved in politics in 18 1942, when I campaigned against an entrenched political 19 machine in Dover County, Pennsylvania. Most of my 20 political life was in . I worked for Don 21 Frazier, who co-founded the Democratic Liberal Caucus in 22 Congress. I worked for Gene McCarthy, "Clean Gene." I 23 worked for the late Paul Wellstone. 24 (Cheering and applause) 25 MR. TERRELL: I brought along a campaign

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Page 249 1 piece with a picture of me and Paul talking that was 2 used in a couple of local campaigns in the 2000 3 elections. 4 I admired all of these men, not only 5 because of their policies but because they represented 6 clean and fair politics. They didn't do fix-its. 7 Tom DeLay -- and I'm going to talk -- I'm 8 going to talk about the Tom DeLay plan, though I begin 9 to suspect that the Tom DeLay plan is nothing but a lot 10 of donkey-baiting and that the switch is already on; 11 there will be a new map. 12 But Tom DeLay has decided to get out of 13 the bug game and play Mr. Fix-It. He wants to fix the 14 Texas Congressional districting because he thinks it's 15 broken. He thinks it's broken. Why? Because there are 16 too many Democrats. That's what's broken about it. 17 Maybe he's still in the extermination game after all, 18 exterminating Democrats. 19 DeLay's redistricting scheme is a fix. 20 Its openly declared purpose is to increase his party's 21 political power. I am proud that my representative in 22 Austin, Rick Noriega, was a leader in the flight to 23 Ardmore that stopped the parade in regular session. 24 (Cheering and applause) 25 MR. TERRELL: Now it's got to be stopped

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Page 250 1 again. If the House passes this, the Senate has got to 2 stop it. If a couple of "DeLayed" -- or perhaps I 3 should say decayed -- Democrats let it go by in the 4 Senate, then the courts will have to do it. They would 5 leave us no recourse but to go to the courts. If we did 6 not, we would be betraying the Constitution and the 7 norms of fairness in electoral procedures that the 8 courts have found in it. If necessary, the case will 9 have to go to the Supreme Court. 10 Nobody, Republican or Democrat, wants to 11 waste taxpayers' money. The Democrats' move last month 12 cost the taxpayers nothing except the state and federal 13 money that was spent in trying to catch them and haul 14 them back. 15 The special session is going to cost us 16 money. Defending this indefensible redistricting plan 17 in the courts, if it comes to that, would cost us 18 taxpayers heaps of money. It's money down the drain. 19 Tom DeLay is going to lose. 20 (Applause) 21 MR. TERRELL: Even the courts -- even the 22 court that made George W. Bush president is not going to 23 let DeLay carve up the state's Congressional districts 24 into weird shapes for admittedly partisan ends. All 25 that money defending this scheme or anything like it

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Page 251 1 will be wasted, squandered on a fool's arrogance. 2 Wasted, when we are cutting, cutting, cutting, dropping 3 children from the CHIPs program, squeezing public 4 services, not enough money for this, not enough money 5 for that. 6 It should be obvious to everybody that 7 there is not enough money to cover the cost of Tom 8 DeLay's grab for power. 9 (Applause) 10 MR. TERRELL: Let's not even start down 11 that path. Thank you. 12 (Applause) 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 14 questions? Thank you, Mr. Terrell. 15 And D, if you'll give him a form so he 16 can fill it out in pen, please. 17 Michael Sweeny? Mr. Sweeny here? 18 Deborah Silverman? I'm sorry, Mr. Sweeny is against. 19 Deborah Silverman, if you'll just give 20 your name and who you're with, please, for the record. 21 MS. SILVERMAN: I'm Deborah Silverman, 22 and a private citizen; and thank you for holding this 23 hearing, I think. 24 (Laughter) 25 MS. SILVERMAN: You tell me that there is

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Page 252 1 no real map, and how can you be conducting a hearing on 2 something that doesn't exist? 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Let me clarify 4 that. I'm not saying there's -- we have a map that the 5 courts passed which we're under currently. There was a 6 map that was drawn and voted just out of committee 7 during the session, but never went any further. 8 And so what we're asking is that you just 9 testify on what the current map is or what that map was 10 or any other map, that there are numerous others that 11 are on the red apple that are online, or just any 12 comments that you would have about your community of 13 interest. 14 MS. SILVERMAN: Very well. 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 16 MS. SILVERMAN: Getting back to the 17 hearing, I consider this hearing nothing more than a 18 photo op, and this photo op is nothing more than a 19 kangaroo court trying to determine if the Emporer has 20 new clothes, and he doesn't. He is exposed, warts and 21 all. Shame on you. 22 This past Republican-controlled 23 legislature showed its lack of respect for the people of 24 Texas. 25 (Applause)

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Page 253 1 MS. SILVERMAN: These sham hearings just 2 continue in exposing the disregard with which the 3 Republican Party holds the citizens of this state and 4 the country. The least you can do is show the bill of 5 goods, the actual bill of goods that you're trying to 6 sell us today. Not all of us hold faith in DeLayism. I 7 am against the redistricting. 8 (Applause) 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 10 questions? 11 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Madam Chair? 12 Excuse me, ma'am. 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Ms. Silverman, we 14 do have questions. Representative Noriega. 15 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I apologize, 16 very quickly, though, just to give you a little brief on 17 the process, it was indicated by the DeLay King map that 18 was passed by the committee, that Mr. DeLay and Mr. King 19 will put out another map. That's what Mr. King 20 indicated earlier in his testimony, so there will be a 21 new product that none of us have seen yet. 22 However, Mr. King had to leave because he 23 left with Mr. Jim Ellis for lunch, who is the aide to 24 Tom DeLay, so they are perhaps coming up with that 25 product now, that hopefully members of the Texas

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Page 254 1 Legislature will see this next week. 2 MS. SILVERMAN: Thank you. I hope that 3 the public will get a look at this and another hearing 4 on it. Thank you very much. 5 TWO MEN IN AUDIENCE: Shame on King, 6 shame on King, shame on King. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Let me give you the 8 next two witness affirmations so if you're here you can 9 be ready for testimony. 10 Carrie Wilson will be next. Mary 11 Margaret Hanson, Theola Petteway, Raymond Hall, Arnold 12 Singer, Elizabeth Cook, Anna Louise Bruner, Heslip 13 Sadberry, Ronald Parker, and Myrtle Jackson Ross. If 14 you're here, if you will come down, we'll start with -- 15 the Chair will recognize Carrie Wilson. Is she here? 16 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: I'm Elizabeth Cook. 17 Some of us didn't want to testify. 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay. When I call 19 your name, if you'll just say "no testimony," I'll 20 recognize you and make sure that everyone knows your 21 position. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. 22 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Are you skipping 23 people? 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: No. I'm going 25 right down the line.

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Page 255 1 Mary Margaret Hanson, against. Theola 2 Petteway, against. Raymond B. Hall, against. 3 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Theola is here. 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Ms. Petteway? 5 We're ready for you, and if you will give your name and 6 who you're with for your testimony, and when you're 7 finished, please fill out -- your form still needs an 8 address, please. 9 MS. PETTEWAY: I did a second one because 10 I realized I didn't put the address on the first. 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I'll give this one 12 back to you to make sure we have it correct. And if 13 you'll just give your name and who you're with, please, 14 for the record. 15 MS. PETTEWAY: My name is Theola 16 Petteway. I am a citizen here in the 18th Congressional 17 District, and it's not necessarily my intent to speak, 18 but I'm very concerned that I also get on record the 19 concern that I have and the people that I'm involved 20 with in several coalitions and organizations that 21 represent citizens' groups in the Third Ward area and in 22 the City of Houston. 23 We are particularly concerned about the 24 priorities that the legislators, especially the House of 25 Representatives, seem to have that is reflected by the

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Page 256 1 decision that they made to do a special session to 2 address the issue of redistricting. We are concerned 3 that issues like healthcare for children, education and 4 all have been obviously put down on the list as not as 5 important as redistricting is. 6 And so as a result of that, I felt it was 7 very important that I also too step up and have it on 8 the record that I am in opposition to the wasting of the 9 taxpayers' money to be used for the redistricting, and 10 then to have us spend that money to address the needs of 11 the citizens of the State of Texas that we feel is a 12 priority for those of us who are taxpayers. 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 14 (Applause) 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, are there 16 any questions of Ms. Petteway? The Chair recognizes 17 Arnold M. Singer, against redistricting. Elizabeth 18 Cook. 19 MS. COOK FROM AUDIENCE: I'm against. 20 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Against, does not 21 wish to testify. Anna Louise Bruner, against 22 Congressional redistricting. Heslip Sadberry? 23 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Who? 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Heslip, 25 H-E-S-L-I-P, Sadberry, against Congressional

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Page 257 1 redistricting. Ronald D. Harper, Mr. Harper, against 2 Congressional redistricting. Myrtle Jackson Ross, is 3 Ms. Ross here? Against Congressional redistricting. 4 The next few, Dion Jones, Mario 5 Escamilla, Phyllis Bailey, Samuel D. Keeper, Joe 6 Jennings, Celestino Perez Jr., Yolanda Coroy, Mary 7 Walker, and Oliver Brown. If you're here, if you'll 8 come down toward the front so as we proceed you're close 9 to the mike. 10 Dion Jones, the Chair recognizes Dion 11 Jones. Mario Escamilla -- Dion Jones is for 12 Congressional redistricting. Mario Escamilla, for 13 Congressional redistricting. Phyllis Bailey, against. 14 Samuel D. Keeper, against Congressional redistricting. 15 Joe Jennings? Mr. Jennings, if you'll 16 come to the mike and say who you are for the record and 17 who you're with, please. 18 MR. JENNINGS: Okay. Well, I am Joe 19 Jennings. I am a long-time Democratic activist. I'm a 20 precinct chairman in Alief, and I am a 27-year 21 collaborator with the economist whose forecast is being 22 confirmed every day by the economic crisis under which 23 these hearings are happening, Lyndon LaRouche, who is 24 also a Democrat for president. 25 And I want to remind everybody here that

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Page 258 1 in order to have this special session on redistricting, 2 the Texas Legislature had a pull together a panic 3 budget; and in fact, there's 45 other states in the same 4 boat as Texas, scrambling to just stave off imminent 5 bankruptcy. California, 35 billion in the whole. I 6 mean, there's nations that aren't that bankrupt. And 7 the nation as the whole, as the Congressmen can tell us, 8 is facing a similar crisis in Washington. 9 So Governor Perry, with the comptroller, 10 did some juggling. They whacked a lot out of higher 11 education, I'm told, to basically declare that the 12 budget crisis is behind us and now we can just deal with 13 this great emergency matter of redistricting. And I 14 just want to tell everyone with great authority that the 15 budget crisis is not only not behind us, the budget 16 crisis is just beginning. 17 (Light applause) 18 MR. JENNINGS: I will reference two 19 things that just happened in the last two weeks. One 20 was this panicked dropping of the interest rates a 21 quarter percent. What can Alan Greenspan do for an 22 encore after he drops them to zero and the economy 23 doesn't start moving again? And the other is the 24 resignation of the whole leadership of Freddie Mac. 25 When you're talking about the mortgage, you're talking

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Page 259 1 about the bedrock of the entire domestic banking system. 2 So the question is, we're going into 3 autumn and I believe the revenue projections that this 4 legislature worked so diligently on are going to be 5 proven to be irrelevant. And the question on 6 redistricting, are the constituencies' institutions 7 going to function under the conditions of that economic 8 crisis? And I submit that Tom DeLay's plan is intended, 9 more than anything else, to make sure that constituency 10 institutions do not function on behalf of the voters, 11 the citizens, Republican or Democrat, and that it would 12 unleash something akin to, quote, "political civil war" 13 here in the State of Texas. And this is akin to what we 14 see in Washington, where all sorts of suspect 15 legislation is being stampeded through with the suspect 16 name of homeland security attached to it. 17 Now, there really are solutions, as there 18 are to everything, to thoughtful people, to all of these 19 problems, and what the members of the panel and the 20 other legislators are going to have to figure out how to 21 do going into autumn is how to go up to the mountaintop 22 and rethink everything as to where and how we got into 23 this mess. But that is not going to be possible under 24 the conditions of the legal chaos and political civil 25 war which this redistricting is going to unleash here in

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Page 260 1 Texas. 2 And so I just would like to situate that 3 in context, because this sometimes gets a little insular 4 in terms of who is in what party, but it's the economic 5 crisis which I think is the tantamount crisis that we 6 have to address. My friend LaRouche will be addressing 7 it in Washington on July the 2nd. You can pick it all 8 up on the Internet. He will be talking about some 9 solutions, and he will be very happy to come to Austin 10 anytime you want and give advice on solving the problems 11 here. Thank you very much. 12 (Light applause) 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 14 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 15 Celestino Perez Jr., if you'll just state 16 your name and who you're with, who you're representing, 17 for the record, please. 18 MR. PEREZ: My name is Celestino Perez. 19 I'm a community leader from Pasadena, Texas, Democratic 20 Precinct Chair 242, past Harris County grand juror, and 21 so on and so forth. 22 Distinguished redistricting committee 23 panel, our Congressional districts in the great State of 24 Texas do not need to be redistricted. As the law 25 prescribes, redistricting must be done every 10 years.

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Page 261 1 That's when the census is taken in our country. This is 2 done to ensure, as much as possible, fair and equitable 3 representation for the general public. Whether we agree 4 with the given laws on the books or not, these laws are 5 in place for make sure our country functions as a whole 6 for the betterment of every individual. 7 True, we run into problems when these 8 laws are interpreted in ways that at times make it more 9 difficult for those such laws are intended to serve. 10 Our governor has used one of these laws to call a 11 special session of our legislature in order to consider 12 the issue of redistricting one more time. 13 Our state faces many other issues that 14 demand attention. We have numerous programs that are 15 being cut. Take, for example, our children who will no 16 longer be insured under CHIPs. Take, for example, our 17 elderly who live on a fixed income and many services 18 they depend on are being curtailed. Even our teachers 19 are being impacted by cuts from our state government. 20 These are the people who hold the future of our state in 21 their hands by educating our young to be productive and 22 contributing members of our society. 23 All this money about to be spent in this 24 special session, all this money about to be spent on 25 redistricting, would be put to better use serving our

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Page 262 1 fellow Texans elsewhere. 2 (Applause) 3 MR. PEREZ: Let us focus on issues worthy 4 of our state leadership. Too much time, energy and 5 money is being wasted on redistricting. Our federal 6 court system is just as capable of drawing up our 7 Congressional districts as is our Texas Legislature. 8 The federal court which drew up the 9 current Congressional districts is a viable entity of 10 our government. We could debate the composition of the 11 members of the court, argue about political party 12 affiliation of each member; and at the end of the day, 13 the court will be the court. How they ruled in order to 14 draw our current Congressional districts was a decision 15 not everyone agreed with, but it gave us a functioning 16 and effective tool in which our government can conduct 17 its business, the business of serving people who live in 18 these districts. 19 To redistrict will mean providing less 20 services to these people. It means less money to 21 provide services these people depend on today. Why do 22 we question the integrity of our federal court system 23 when they represent the people? Both the Texas 24 Legislature and members of our federal court system are 25 representatives of our fellow Texans and all people

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Page 263 1 living within their jurisdiction. Why is it, then, that 2 we question the integrity of this body by redoing what 3 already is done? 4 There is nothing wrong with how our 5 federal courts drew up our Congressional districts. The 6 new Republican proposed map does not create any more 7 Hispanic districts. Political rhetoric is what this is, 8 ladies and gentlemen. This proposal does nothing more 9 than just reshuffle Hispanic constituents around to make 10 it seem like it is creating more Hispanic districts. 11 You are familiar with the dangling carrot 12 on a pole in front of an animal pulling the cart. The 13 animal just keeps going, thinking it can reach the 14 carrot to consume it when it actually never will. This 15 is what is happening here. It is a political creation 16 from the mind of Tom DeLay. It is his way of throwing 17 bread crumbs to Hispanics to make us believe we are 18 getting something beneficial when we really are not. It 19 is an illusion to convince enough Hispanic leaders 20 caught off guard so they in turn will convince Hispanics 21 in their communities to support this redistricting 22 effort. The new Republican proposed map does not create 23 any more Hispanic districts. 24 The new Republican proposed map splits 25 Hispanic communities; the 25th will be split into six

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Page 264 1 districts. We know that in unity, there is strength. 2 How in the world is redistricting helping Hispanic 3 communities by dividing them? 4 (Light applause) 5 MR. PEREZ: The new Republican proposed 6 map completely eliminates the 25th District from 7 Houston. Now, this makes it really personal. You're 8 asking my family to eliminate our one Congressional 9 district. You're asking our family to fire our 10 Congressman, Chris Bell. You are asking us to get rid 11 of our Congressman, who is doing an excellent job of 12 representing our interests in Washington. 13 (Applause) 14 MR. PEREZ: Ever since the 25th 15 Congressional District was created, there has been an 16 office in Pasadena. This allows a hands-on government 17 representation in Washington. It makes us feel 18 important. It makes us feel we are participants in 19 government. We do not have to travel great distances to 20 be face-to-face with our Congressman or one of his 21 staff. In today's world of technology, it is important 22 for us to feel the human touch, when more often than not 23 government seems insensitive to our needs. 24 Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott issued 25 an opinion saying the legislature is not under any

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Page 265 1 directive on Congressional redistricting, and the 2 U.S. Supreme Court found the current plan 3 constitutional; what gives you the right to redistrict? 4 The next legal redistricting is scheduled for after the 5 2010 census. Thank you. 6 (Applause) 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. Thank 8 you for your testimony. Members, any questions? 9 Representative Noriega? 10 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Mr. Perez, real 11 quick, I'm glad you brought forward many of these 12 points, because, as we know, in the media and the spin 13 cycle it's been projected that Mr. DeLay in his map 14 through Representative Phil King is advancing districts 15 for minorities, African-American and Hispanics, and I'm 16 glad that you were able to bring those points to bear. 17 He said, in fact, that me and my 18 colleagues, both African-American and Hispanics, if we 19 did not like his plan, that we were not representing our 20 constituents; and so I was pleased that you were able to 21 bring these; points to bear a grass roots perspective 22 that quite the opposite is true, and that it is a sham 23 and a myth and a political spin when says that 24 Mr. DeLay, who -- were you aware that Mr. DeLay votes 25 against Hispanic interests 93% of the time?

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Page 266 1 MR. PEREZ: Yes, sir, I was. 2 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 3 MR. PEREZ: Just like I'm also aware that 4 he was probably taking into consideration of redrawing 5 the Congressional lines using gender, but then he 6 settled on this, what he calls brilliant present plan. 7 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any other 9 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 10 The Chair recognizes Yolanda Coroy. If 11 you'll give us your name and who you're with, please, 12 for the record. 13 MS. COROY: Certainly. My name is 14 Yolanda Coroy. I'm a resident of Harris County. I'm a 15 Bay Area Democrat president. I'm not here to represent 16 the club, I'm here to represent me as an individual. 17 I'm also an attorney, so for that reason I have a quick 18 question regarding the process that we're going through 19 at this time. 20 After you -- after all of the 21 applications, the so-called witness affirmation was 22 collected, can I ask, Madam Chairperson, what is the 23 process by which you are collecting the speakers, and 24 what order are you using? 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: As I stated

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Page 267 1 earlier, we did the elected officials first, and from 2 there on I am taking them as the assistant clerk is 3 giving them to me, as they were turned in. 4 MS. COROY: So my question is, was any 5 consideration given to the time that they were submitted 6 to the Chairwoman or to the clerk? In other words, as 7 the gentleman spoke earlier here, he arrived at five 8 till 8:00; he had been waiting until approximately 30 9 minutes ago when he was given an opportunity to speak. 10 I can't speak to exactly, but I know that 11 other people that got here after I did were given an 12 opportunity to speak. 13 So my question was, again, is there any 14 consideration taken for the order by which we appear and 15 submit our affirmations in order to speak? 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Our assistant clerk 17 has worked diligently. We did have the problem of many, 18 many applications that were not on the official form 19 that we had to take out and reorganize, and he has tried 20 his best to give us the Witness Affirmation Forms and 21 keep them in order as they came. Now, I'm sorry if 22 there has been any inconvenience, but that is what we 23 have done, the process that we can do. 24 MS. COROY: In regard to my comment 25 earlier, of course it's no reflection on your I'm sure

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Page 268 1 duly appointed clerk. However, may I recommend that 2 possibly in the future, you possibly could have a time 3 stamp whereby we could stamp and therefore you could put 4 people in order. Thank you. 5 (Applause) 6 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I will take that 7 under advisement. 8 MS. COROY: My next question is this. 9 I'm very troubled. I am in the 22nd Congressional 10 District, and I, like other people, would like to be 11 redistricted and get out of Tom DeLay's district. I can 12 tell you this: Not only that, I am troubled at the fact 13 that Tom DeLay did not see fit to be present at such an 14 important event that affects his constituents. I am a 15 Democrat, but I am still his constituent. In addition, 16 nor did he send, according to my knowledge, any 17 representative by which to represent his constituency, 18 and I think that is a flagrant violation, and I'd like 19 to show that on the record, that he has an obligation to 20 his constituents. 21 Secondly, I'd like to tell you that I 22 arrived at 9:00 o'clock. Upon arrival, I was given a 23 form, or I got one out of the box, as I remember 24 correctly, and I completed something that was called a 25 witness affirmation. Upon completing that affirmation

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Page 269 1 took it to the box that I assume was put out by the 2 Chairperson in order to collect for future reference in 3 terms of the speakers. However, at 9:30 -- and by the 4 way, I understand that this -- although I did not see a 5 notice anywhere, I understand this meeting was to start 6 at 9:00 o'clock. 7 At 9:30, the Chairperson did give an 8 announcement saying that "Those of you who are the 9 following names will be returned to the podium to accept 10 an acceptable form by which you must complete before you 11 can testify." I did that, I picked up one, I completed 12 it; and upon completing it, I realized upon examining 13 both applications that they're identical. Upon 14 completing the affirmation, I re-turned it in -- and by 15 the way, it looked like there were hundreds of other 16 people at the time who were also doing the same. 17 At 10:00 o'clock, one hour late, the 18 meeting was called to order. I understand that there is 19 a need for decorum. I understand that this is a 20 professional and a hearing under oath, a formal hearing. 21 However, I would like to ask the Chairperson at this 22 time, why did we waste one hour of time in order to 23 commit what seems to be the same -- complete the same 24 form that we were given in the first place? 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: We are operating

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Page 270 1 under the Rules of the House, and when we have committee 2 hearings under the Rules of the House, the only Witness 3 Affirmation Forms that are acceptable are those that are 4 picked up from the clerk and the assistant clerk and 5 returned to them. We do not accept forms that are 6 Xeroxed or faxed copies. It has to be the original 7 form, and that is the rules that we operate by for our 8 committee hearings. 9 MS. COROY: Well, I didn't pick it up 10 from the clerk, standing here. I did not pick one up 11 from the clerk, I picked one up from one of the tables. 12 So can the Chairperson exactly tell me what rule it is 13 under which you're following? 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: When we have 15 committee hearings, we have the Witness Affirmation 16 Forms in the room to be picked up; but they must be 17 handed in to the clerk, because what the assistant clerk 18 does is he goes through and makes sure that we have all 19 of the information that's required for testimony, and 20 that's why he goes through and makes sure that 21 everything has been checked off, address, phone number, 22 and who is testifying and it's signed, because those are 23 all the things that we have to have. 24 MS. COROY: My point exactly, and I think 25 I should assure you that I am very used to doing --

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Page 271 1 completing formal affidavits and formal forms, and I'd 2 like to make that note for the record. 3 Secondly, I'd like to make a note for the 4 record that the form says you -- under the bottom line, 5 under the signature thereof, it says "Sworn to me, Chair 6 of" -- "Sworn to before me, Chair of the above named 7 body, this 28th day of" the month and the year. I am 8 probably the hundredth person to speak, and no one has 9 asked me to swear in, and I'd like to make that note for 10 the record. 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: That is by signing 12 the Witness Affirmation Form, you are swearing in by 13 that, and that is under the Rules of the House committee 14 also. 15 MS. COROY: Well, I submitted the forms 16 here, but I did not submit it to you, and I'd like to 17 make that distinction. 18 And finally I'd like to say, though most 19 of my time is up, if by chance you do use an 20 interpreter, I would hope that you would swear them in 21 to make sure that what they interpret is accurate. 22 And finally, everybody else has said that 23 we're spending $1.7 million on something that has been 24 wasted; that is so necessary for other things like 25 education reform, insurance reform, our criminal justice

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Page 272 1 system. We should be looking at criminal justice 2 reform. We should have special prosecutors in order 3 to -- 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you for your 5 testimony. Your time has run out. Thank you. 6 MS. COROY: Great, thank you. 7 (Cheering and applause) 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The committee 9 recognizes Mary E. Walker. Is Ms. Walker here? 10 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Madam Chairman, have 11 you lost my name? I've been here all day long. 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Ma'am, I still have 13 this many, and there is a stack -- 14 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Do you have a Ruth in 15 there, Rita Ruth? 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I'm going through 17 the stack as they were presented to me. We are reading 18 through the numbers, the ones that were handed to me. 19 Mary E. Walker, is Ms. Walker here? 20 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Yes. 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Ms. Walker is 22 against, and she has submitted written testimony. 23 Oliver E. Brown, Mr. Brown, the form was not totally 24 filled out so I do not know his wishes. Robert C. Lee, 25 is Mr. Lee here? He is for Congressional redistricting.

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Page 273 1 Teresa Terry Butterworth, against 2 Congressional redistricting. Sheila Blake? 3 (Light applause) 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The next ones in 5 line, Tommy L. Allen, Martha McGriff, Lisa Auerbach, 6 William D. Prosier, Bruce Mosier, Autry Henry, Domingo 7 Marquez, Rita Ruth. 8 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: That's me, okay. 9 Hooray. 10 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Tom, I believe 11 that's Z-A-K-E-S, and Russell Smith, if you're in the 12 audience, if you'll come closer to the podium. Thank 13 you. 14 Ms. Blake, go ahead if you will give us 15 your name and who you're with. 16 MS. BLAKE: Thank you, Ms. Morrison. My 17 name is Sheila Blake, and I'm a Houstonian who is 18 against this redistricting. I have in my hand here the 19 Constitution of the United States of America, and I'd 20 like to read from it first. 21 It says: "Representatives and direct 22 taxes should be apportioned among the several states 23 which may be included within this Union according to 24 their respective numbers." It goes on to say, "The 25 actual enumeration shall be made within three years

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Page 274 1 after the first meeting of the Congress of the United 2 States and within every subsequent term of 10 years in 3 such manner as they shall, by law, direct." It doesn't 4 mention politics or race or political party or 5 persuasion. It said numbers. I just want to point that 6 out. 7 I've read in the Houston Chronicle and 8 I've heard it again today, the estimated price tag of 9 this special session is $1.7 million. It seems the 10 Republicans are out to spend taxpayers' money on 11 political power plays. They wasted 40 million on the 12 witch hunt against Clinton trying to make a Whitewater 13 scandal, they couldn't do it; and for the money, all we 14 could do was dig up an affair to create constitutional 15 crisis. 16 Every time Republicans are in control, we 17 face this. How can they claim to be fiscal 18 conservatives and waste the dollars chasing Democrats 19 with the Department of Public Safety and Homeland 20 Security, and now there's going to be a wasteful 21 $10 million election in September that was scheduled on 22 purpose for low turnouts on behalf of insurance 23 companies. How many children could have healthcare for 24 $1.7 million or $10 million? 25 (Applause)

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Page 275 1 MS. BLAKE: Do you understand that a 2 family with moderate income is destroyed when their 3 child is diagnosed with leukemia and they have no 4 insurance? I've known people that have been through 5 that. But we can spend $1.7 million for Tom DeLay's 6 political healthcare insurance reform. 7 (Applause) 8 MS. BLAKE: We should be spending this 9 session on the very real problems of Texans, education, 10 pollution, the economy, et cetera. This is 11 irresponsible, cynical political manipulation of the 12 worst kind. This is politicians choosing voters, not 13 the other way around. 14 I live in southwest Houston and we have 15 voters there who are described as good government 16 voters. We care about good government, and we're very 17 thoughtful. We don't need to be torn apart by 18 redistricting. 19 We are highly urban and residential and 20 subject to flooding. Our Congressman, Chris Bell, 21 recently held a flood control town hall, and it was 22 educational and empowered us. We believe he looks out 23 for our interests. But if we are combined with rural 24 areas, I don't believe our interests will be taken into 25 consideration.

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Page 276 1 I don't care what the map says, because I 2 think redistricting is wrong to begin with, no matter 3 what map anybody puts out there. We know that 4 gerrymandering is a tired word and that there's 5 tradition, but the census' 10-year schedule is there for 6 a reason. I think it's political chaos to keep 7 revisiting it every time you change power, and I don't 8 think that just because someone doesn't win what they 9 wanted at the ballot box they should change the rules. 10 To me, that's a grown-up temper tantrum. 11 Remember, power corrupts absolutely. 12 Power corrupts; absolutely power corrupts absolutely. 13 And this is corrupt. 14 (Applause) 15 MS. BLAKE: Finally, just because I have 16 a right to do something -- and maybe you do, I don't 17 know for sure, we'll find out eventually -- it doesn't 18 mean that it is right. I could stand here and call 19 people names. I have a right to do that, but I don't 20 think it would be right. Thank you very much. 21 (Applause) 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 23 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 24 The Chair is now going to recognize 25 Congressman John Culberson, who is here to testify for

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Page 277 1 Congressional redistricting. 2 (Cheering and booing from audience) 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Audience, we have 4 been courteous for each and every one of the speakers, 5 and I think we should be courteous for every speaker, 6 please. The Chair recognizes -- 7 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Madam Chair, 8 may I make a point of inquiry? 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Yes, ma'am. 10 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Is there a 11 quorum of the committee? 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: There are two of us 13 here, but we had a quorum when we started, and so as any 14 other House committee, we don't always have a quorum 15 while we take testimony. 16 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: My only 17 question right now is whether or not the testimony 18 following now, since there's not a quorum present, would 19 that be official testimony or unofficial testimony or 20 what? 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Yes, it would still 22 be official testimony because we had a quorum when we 23 started and we have never adjourned, we just took a 24 break for lunch; so yes, this will all still be official 25 testimony, and we are still here to listen to each and

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Page 278 1 every person that wants to testify. 2 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: And we are 3 still in committee. 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Right. 5 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: You're the 6 Chair and you have to be present. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Right, that's 8 correct. Thank you very much. 9 Congressman Culberson. 10 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Thank you, 11 Madam Chairman. I will be brief. I had the privilege 12 to come down and testify during the regular legislative 13 session, and for the record I want to reiterate and 14 reaffirm the testimony that I gave you before, as well 15 as the exhibits which I presented to the committee at 16 that time. I'd like for those exhibits to be made a 17 part of the record here, and I will resubmit those to 18 you. 19 The exhibit that I gave you, as well as 20 the testimony, is focused on the fact that the Texas 21 Legislature and the State of Texas has operated under 22 federal court orders for many years in the operation of 23 our prison systems and the way we operate our mental 24 health hospitals and the way we've operated. Now, 25 today, we're still operating under a court-ordered

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Page 279 1 method concerning our school finance system, and I have 2 devoted my work on behalf of the people I represent in 3 west Houston on restoring the right of the people's 4 elected representatives to control the way we finance 5 our schools, the way we run our prisons, our mental 6 health hospitals. 7 It is an important feature of our form of 8 government that the people's elected representatives 9 make the decisions for them, and consistent with that 10 core belief of mine as a Jeffersonian is that the 11 people's elected representatives should make decisions 12 for them. 13 I wanted to testify here very strongly in 14 favor of the legislature's duty to redistrict 15 Congressional boundaries because the boundaries we're 16 operating under today were drawn by a three-judge 17 federal panel, and that three-judge federal panel said 18 in their opinion that in fact it was entirely 19 appropriate and necessary for the boundaries to be drawn 20 in a way that maximized the political power of the State 21 of Texas in Washington, and the court did so quite 22 explicitly, saying that they were going to draw the 23 boundaries in a way to make sure that the members of 24 Congress that went to Washington could do the best job 25 possible for Texas.

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Page 280 1 It is a fact of life today that the State 2 of Texas is -- we are voting, a majority of the state, 3 Republican; we have a Republican legislature, a 4 Republican Senate, a Republican governor. All of our 5 statewide elected officials are Republicans, and the 6 only bastion left, the only group of elected officials 7 that do not reflect -- that proportionately do not 8 reflect that voting strength statewide is the 9 Congressional delegation. And because it is entirely 10 constitutional, because the three-judge panel in this 11 case specifically on redistricting said it was entirely 12 proper and appropriate to redistrict to strengthen our 13 political power, and because the state is clearly 14 Republican and our Congressional delegation does not 15 reflect that, it is, I think, incumbent on the 16 legislature to fulfill its constitutional duty to 17 redistrict in a way that reflects the realities of the 18 way the people vote in Texas. 19 I also want to point out to the 20 committee, as I did in my testimony in May, that it -- 21 that in addition to the obvious necessity to redistrict 22 to reflect the political realities of Texas today, the 23 legislature, by redistricting, will strengthen Texas' 24 role in Washington not only in a practical sense by -- 25 because once you redistrict, you elect more Republicans

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Page 281 1 from Texas, that reflects the State of Texas more 2 accurately, Texas will earn the right to have its own 3 vote on the Steering Committee, and that's something 4 that I can testify to personally. 5 I represent the 107th Republican class on 6 the Steering Committee, something I didn't know coming 7 in as a member of the Texas House. When I joined the 8 Congress, I discovered that the committee assignments in 9 Washington and in the U.S. House are made by the 10 Steering Committee, which is chaired by the Speaker, 11 , and the Steering Committee is made up of 12 representatives from regions in the country as well as 13 the House leadership, and then the State of California 14 has their own vote. They've got one vote on the 15 Steering Committee. The State of Florida just earned 16 its own single vote on the Steering Committee because 17 the legislature in Florida, after the last election, 18 redistricted to make the Congressional delegation in 19 Florida represent proportionately the voting patterns in 20 Florida statewide. 21 Previous to the last election, Florida 22 had to share its vote on the Steering Committee with 23 Georgia and, I believe, South Carolina, and perhaps 24 Mississippi. There was a regional vote, in other words, 25 for Florida. Once Florida's legislature accepted its

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Page 282 1 constitutional duty to redistrict and increased its 2 number of Republican representatives to reflect 3 proportionately the Republican vote in Florida, Florida 4 won and earned the right to have its own vote on the 5 Steering Committee. 6 Today, Florida's vote is more powerful 7 than Texas' is on the Steering Committee because our 8 vote is diluted by the State of Oklahoma because Texas 9 has not redistricted. There is an additional very 10 compelling and powerful reason for Texas to redistrict, 11 because we will thereby earn our own vote on the 12 Steering Committee; and certainly Texas has more 13 populace than Florida, our economy is larger, and -- 14 AUDIENCE: Time! Time! Time! 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Audience, I have 16 not -- I have not timed any elected official. I've let 17 each and every one talk as long as they wanted, so if 18 you will be courteous and let Mr. Culberson finish his 19 testimony. 20 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Thank you. 21 And my testimony -- I know people have been waiting, and 22 I will not be much longer. 23 But this is a very important point to 24 make on the record, because our redistricting to make 25 the Congressional delegation in Texas reflect the

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Page 283 1 proportionate vote of Republicans statewide, Texas will 2 earn its own vote on the Steering Committee, which is 3 entirely appropriate, so that Florida, Texas and 4 California would have their own vote on the Steering 5 Committee. 6 That's of vital importance to the State 7 of Texas, because the Steering Committee will interview 8 and select the Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, 9 the Chairman of the Appropriations Committee, the 10 Chairman of the Congress Committee. The Chairmen of all 11 the committees in the House of Representatives in 12 Washington are interviewed by and elected in a secret 13 ballot by the Steering Committee, of which I have the 14 privilege of being a member. 15 So in addition to the very -- the 16 absolute duty the legislature has to redistrict as set 17 forth by the three-judge federal panel, there is a very 18 immediate and practical impact in increasing the power 19 of Texas in Washington when you redistrict, so I 20 strongly support your right to do so. 21 And I also would say for the record that 22 the map that was laid out by Representative King, the 23 one I expressed my support for on behalf of the people 24 of west Houston -- 25 AUDIENCE: Time!

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Page 284 1 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Where's the map? 2 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: -- that that 3 map, it's important to the people of west Houston. 4 I will wrap up my testimony by 5 speaking -- I think it's important that I wrap up my 6 testimony by speaking about District 7 in particular. 7 District 7 has been, and always has been since it was 8 created in 1965, a west Houston, west Harris County 9 district. Representative King's map keeps Houston -- 10 District 7 in west Houston, where we have common 11 transportation problems, common school districts, common 12 quality-of-life issues. I support Representative King's 13 map and also the substitute, which I support, and I 14 would urge the committee to adopt the map along the 15 lines that Representative King has laid out. 16 And I'd be happy to answer any questions 17 you may have. 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 19 questions of Representative Culberson? 20 Representative Noriega. 21 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Congressman 22 Culberson, it's good to see you. 23 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Good to see 24 you. 25 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I have to admit

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Page 285 1 my ignorance as it applies to the committee process and 2 its power in Washington. I'm ignorant of that. All I'm 3 aware of is that the President of the United States is 4 from Texas, the Majority Leader of the House of 5 Representatives whose plan that we're having to visit is 6 from Texas, that has pushed this entire agenda are from 7 Texas. So I have to admit ignorance about that as it 8 applies to the power structure of Congress, because all 9 I see is Texans up in Washington. 10 (Cheering and applause) 11 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I don't know. 12 But with that, seriously, on a serious note, you 13 mentioned your support for the DeLay King map that the 14 House had passed, the committee had passed. 15 In that, you mentioned that the 16 communities of interest as it applies to west Houston 17 and which you would represent, that would include the -- 18 what was mentioned earlier in testimony prior to your 19 arrival, it would include the neighborhood of Montrose. 20 Do you feel total comfort in being able to represent the 21 neighborhood of Montrose? 22 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I was born and 23 raised in West University Place and have a long, long 24 history -- 25 (Noise from crowd, unintelligible)

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Page 286 1 (Gavel) 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Could we please 3 have order? And Representative Noriega has a pending 4 question. 5 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I'll take that 6 as a yes. 7 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: You and I have 8 served together, and you know I take my job description 9 as a representative very seriously and I've worked very 10 hard to make sure that I understand and represent the 11 needs and wishes of all of the people that I represent. 12 I would also say, if I could, in response 13 to your question, an important point that you mentioned 14 that I need to reinforce is that by redistricting and 15 increasing and making sure that Texas' Congressional 16 delegation proportionately represents the Republican 17 voting strength of Texas, we will not only earn the 18 right to have our own vote on the Steering Committee, we 19 would not only be redesigning the Congressional 20 delegation in a way that is appropriate for the state, 21 but you will be sending more Republicans to Washington 22 that will represent Texas, because our goal, 23 Representative Noriega, is always to look after Texas 24 first. We do have a president from Texas, we have a 25 majority leader from Texas, the majority of the Congress

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Page 287 1 in the Senate is Republican, a majority of the House is 2 Republican; so you will strengthen Texas' power in 3 Washington by sending more Republicans and help our 4 president by sending more Republicans because the 5 Democrats in Washington oppose the president on 6 virtually every issue. 7 (Booing from audience) 8 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I understand. I 9 understand. We just happen to differ on that. 10 Let me ask you another question real 11 quick, because you were mentioning as it applies to the 12 issue of proportionate -- the proportionate argument 13 that you are making -- 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mr. Noriega? 15 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Yes, ma'am. 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Can I stop you for 17 just a moment? Our court reporter needs to take a break 18 for about five minutes. We're just going to recess for 19 about five minutes. 20 (Cheering and applause) 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: It is very 22 important to have her, so we will stand at ease for five 23 minutes. 24 (Recess.) 25 INDEX OF SPEAKERS IN MORNING PROCEEDINGS:

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Page 288 1 Dwight Boykins 2 Representative Phil King 3 Representative Gene Green 4 Representative Chris Bell 5 Representative Sheila Jackson Lee 6 Representative Sylvester Turner 7 Representative Rick Noriega 8 Representative Jessica Farrar 9 Representative Martha Wong 10 Representative Joe Deshotel 11 Representative Garnet Coleman 12 Representative Dora Olivo 13 representative Vilma Luna 14 Howard J. Middleton 15 Councilwoman Ada Edwards 16 Yolanda Garza Birdwell 17 Ernest Wilkerson 18 James Rodriguez 19 Maureen Jouett 20 James Yarbrough 21 Stephen Holmes 22 Richard Young 23 Johnny Mata 24 Sylvia Brooks 25 Councilmember Annise Parker

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Page 289 1 Pat Gandy 2 Tony Buzbee 3 Ruben Davis 4 Ira Leichtman 5 Judy Hollinger 6 Scot Fahey 7 John "Mickey" Breaux 8 Sims McCutchan 9 Thomas Yeager 10 Darryl Davis 11 Pastor Roy Love 12 INDEX OF SPEAKERS IN AFTERNOON PROCEEDINGS: 13 Congressman Nick Lampson 14 Sue Lovell 15 Emyre' Barrios Robinson 16 Phyllis Singer 17 Maurice Sumner 18 Representative Dora Olivo 19 Stan Merriman 20 Norman Farr 21 Jim Bowie 22 Patricia Cabrera 23 Gilbert Adams 24 Barbara Stanley 25 Ray Hill

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Page 290 1 Court Koenning 2 Joseph Jaworski 3 Roland Thompson 4 Judy Long 5 Representative Senfronia Thompson 6 Margaret Jordan 7 Zeb Alford 8 Barnham Terrell 9 Deborah Silverman 10 Theola Petteway 11 Celestino Perez 12 Yolanda Coroy 13 Sheila Blake 14 Congressman John Culberson 15 ****************************** 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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Page 291 COUNTY OF HARRIS ) STATE OF TEXAS ) REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION I, SUSAN PERRY MILLER, CSR, RMR, CRR, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify that the foregoing transcription is a true and accurate transcription of my shorthand notes taken in the captioned proceedings. I further certify that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties or attorneys in the action in which these proceedings were taken. Further, I am not financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.

Subscribed and sworn to on this ______day

of ______, ______.

______SUSAN P. MILLER, CSR, RMR, CRR Texas CSR No. 4083 Expiration Date: 12/31/2003

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Page 292 **************************************************. THE HOUSE COMMITTEE on REDISTRICTING SUBCOMMITTEE on CONGRESSIONAL REDISTRICTING ONE 78th LEGISLATURE JUNE 28, 2003 **************************************************

9:00 a.m. Texas Southern University 3100 Cleburne Street Houston, Texas Roderick Paige College of Education Auditorium

EVENING PROCEEDINGS

Reported by Susan Perry Miller, CSR, RMR, CRR

Spanish Interpreter: Beatriz Wright

Vietnamese Interpreter: Alice Huynh

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Page 293 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 Committee Panel: 4 Chair, Representative Geanie Morrison 5 Vice-Chair, Representative Ron Wilson 6 Representative Phil King 7 Representative Vilma Luna 8 Representative Robert Talton 9 10 Also Present: 11 Representative Rick Noriega 12 Representative Garnet Coleman 13 Representative Martha Wong 14 Representative Joe Deshotel 15 Representative Jessica Farrar 16 Representative Dora Olivo 17 Representative Senfronia Thompson 18 Representative Sylvester Turner 19 Representative Chris Bell 20 Representative Sheila Jackson Lee 21 Representative John Culberson 22 Representative Gene Green 23 Representative Nick Lampson 24 Representative Joe Moreno 25

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Page 294 1 EVENING PROCEEDINGS 2 (5:39 p.m.) 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: We are getting the 4 temperature adjusted and several people have said that 5 they're chilly, and so we're working on getting that 6 adjusted also. But if everyone will take their seats, 7 we will resume testimony. It's real important that we 8 keep our court reporter comfortable since she's the one 9 doing all of our transcribing. 10 Thank you so much. 11 REPRESENTATIVE LEE: Thank you, court 12 reporter! 13 (Cheering and applause) 14 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Get her warm! 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: All right. D, are 16 you ready? We're ready to resume. All right. 17 Members, we will go back to where we 18 were. Representative Noriega had a question. 19 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you, Madam 20 Chair, for being so gracious, and to my good friend John 21 Culberson, who we always have fun bantering some of 22 these issues. 23 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: We do indeed. 24 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: But Congressman, 25 we were talking a little bit about representative

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Page 295 1 government, and you said you thought you could represent 2 Montrose well because you grew up in West University. 3 (Laughter) 4 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And I -- the 5 folks in that end -- and this is a hypothetical because 6 of the power that you have been able to obtain very 7 quickly. The folks in that area under the King DeLay 8 plan are in favor of rail, for instance, just as a 9 hypothetical. I mean, you're on Appropriations and 10 Congressman DeLay has had his issues with Metro, and I 11 could -- would you guys, because I think I'm going to 12 speak generally -- I would think that that end of town 13 and inside-the-loop folks are in favor of rail. How 14 would you represent that? 15 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Well, in fact, 16 I am the only Texan on the Transportation Appropriations 17 Subcommittee, Representative Noriega. I actually was 18 lined up to go serve on the Commerce Committee; and as 19 late as the first week of December I thought I was going 20 to the Commerce Committee, and Congressman DeLay asked 21 me to drop my application and he was becoming majority 22 leader and he wanted to focus his time on that, so he 23 asked me to fill his seat on the Appropriations 24 Committee. So I was appointed -- I'm the only Texan on 25 the Transportation Subcommittee, therefore I'm the key

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Page 296 1 person to work with you on making sure we're taking care 2 of Texas' transportation problems. 3 In response to your question about Metro, 4 I can tell you that I have committed to Metro, and I'll 5 do so again here, that I want to work with them and help 6 them because they're an essential part of our 100% 7 transportation solution. I'm committed to seeing a 100% 8 transportation solution to the Houston area's 9 transportation problems. 10 And I would also say that I could 11 represent the neighborhoods that the King map purports 12 to put into my district. The best evidence of that that 13 I can give you is by the appropriation requests that 14 I've submitted. The only appropriation requests that I 15 have approved, with one exception that's about 10% of my 16 district, a flood control proposal, I have only agreed 17 to appropriation requests that are in other people's 18 districts, and most of them are in the Medical Center 19 area and for flood control relief. 20 So there is not a single appropriation 21 request in this appropriations bill for my district. 22 I'm looking after Texas and the interests of Houston as 23 a whole in helping to, for example, to pay for the 24 damage that was done to the Medical Center by the 25 flooding from Allison. I've submitted a request to help

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Page 297 1 the Texas Medical Center and Rice University create the 2 nation's first biotechnology center to help Baylor, 3 flood control projects across the area. So, yes, sir, 4 can I represent whatever area you give me as a 5 representative. 6 And I would also say that I am working 7 right this morning, in fact -- in conclusion, I'd say 8 that this morning, in fact, we broke ground on the 9 reconstruction of the Katy Freeway. Now, that is the 10 first interstate freeway in the nation that's being paid 11 for totally -- we have finished paying for it without 12 any more tax dollars, Representative Noriega. It's all 13 being done with toll money. We broke ground on it this 14 morning. Instead of 12 years, it will be built in five. 15 And I've been bird-dogging that project and had to make 16 sure that we got approval from the feds on it, and I'll 17 be working to change federal law to make it easier to do 18 projects like that in the future. 19 But yes, sir, I'm committed to the total 20 transportation solution, and Metro is a part of that. 21 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you, 22 Congressman. I have one real quick question, because in 23 the interests of time, I know other people have been 24 waiting a long time. 25 I know, John, part of your argument is

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Page 298 1 professing that based on the number of votes, of 2 Republican votes cast, therefore should mean so many 3 districts or that same representation. That's my -- I 4 don't want to misrepresent it. 5 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Well, because 6 redistricting is a political decision to be made by this 7 political body of the legislature, it is your 8 discretion, your political best judgment that should 9 control, not the decision of a court, as to what you 10 think that proportionate balance should be between the 11 number of Republican districts and the Republican vote. 12 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And with that, 13 would you not agree with the -- paraphrasing the 14 three-judge panel, who said, if I can just paraphrase 15 it, that they in effect had designed 20 Republican 16 districts? I mean, that was in the ruling. I mean, 17 would you say that is a fair proportional -- 18 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Actually, I 19 would disagree with that paraphrase, because the 20 three-judge panel said quite explicitly that they drew 21 maps to protect existing incumbent Congressmen, which 22 meant they drew a map to design and protect the 23 Democratic majority in the Texas Congressional 24 delegation, and this is a Republican state, votes 25 typically about 60% Republican, and our Congressional

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Page 299 1 delegation is significantly below 50% in terms of the 2 districts. 3 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And I'm sorry 4 you didn't hear the testimony earlier, but in each of 5 those districts I was able to outline, in all of them, 6 all of those districts, all statewide Republican 7 candidates achieved close to if not in excess of 60% of 8 the votes, everyone except for who the voters chose as 9 their Congressional representative as independent 10 voters. 11 Basically, by what you just said, we 12 disallow or we say no, those voters were wrong with who 13 they chose, and therefore we're going to fix it so they 14 get it right next time. And that's in effect the -- 15 (Applause) 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: -- what appears 17 to be the essence of -- 18 (Cheering) 19 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Actually, my 20 testimony is that I trust you and I trust the 21 legislature to draw Congressional boundaries because 22 it's your job. It's a political decision based on your 23 best judgment, based on the will of the majority of the 24 House and the majority of the Senate, to draw those 25 boundaries in a way that you think fairly represents the

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Page 300 1 voting strength of the state, also taking into account 2 as a vitally important consideration how we strengthen 3 Texas' political power in Washington. 4 The Congress of the United States is 5 organized on political lines. Our president is 6 Republican and the Democrats and the Congressional 7 delegation, other than Ralph Hall, very consistently 8 vote against our president, strenuously oppose him. 9 (Cheering and applause) 10 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: We need to 11 send more Republicans to Washington. If we're going to 12 maintain political power, we need to send more 13 Republicans to Washington. 14 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I do need to say 15 this, though, too, Congressman, in light of what you 16 said. I can look here as it applies to the NAACP 17 legislative report card and the National Hispanic 18 Leadership Agenda scorecards, with yourself included, 19 and they are dismal as it applies to communities of 20 interest that many of your former colleagues, and thus 21 many on the dais here, represent. 22 And so by increasing the number that you 23 are proposing, the quota, in effect -- and I know you're 24 not for quotas, right? 25 (Noise and laughter from crowd,

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Page 301 1 unintelligible) 2 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I'm asking you 3 to draw boundaries that reflect a proportion, in 4 proportionate numbers, the Republican voting strength of 5 the state in your best political judgment based on the 6 majority will of the House and the Senate. 7 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: In that request, 8 though, Congressman, you do understand that the Supreme 9 Court recognizes people, and not that voting strength. 10 Let me tell you why. Because you take 11 Gene Green's district, like my Congressman, where we 12 vote about 40,000 people, they still have 650,000 people 13 there. However, in your Congressional District, y'all 14 may vote in upwards of 150,000 people. 15 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: We turn out. 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Are we to say -- 17 and a lot of that is a based on socioeconomics, and I 18 wish Dr. Murray were still here and he would validate 19 that. 20 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: And good grass 21 roots organization. I'm testimony to that. 22 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: And he would 23 validate that, that a lot of it is based on 24 socioeconomics. So are we to say, then, that the 25 remainder of that 650,000 folks -- I mean, that's why

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Page 302 1 the Supreme Court does not recognize that it is a 2 flawed -- it is a skewed manner of determining voting 3 strength and et cetera because there's so many other 4 factors involved. 5 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Which is why 6 it's a political decision. 7 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Exactly. 8 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: You just made 9 the case for the legislature drawing the map and that's 10 what I'm here to testify for, is that your judgment, 11 based on your understanding of the districts of the 12 State of Texas as a whole, the Constitution of Texas, 13 the Constitution of the United States, and the court 14 decisions always defer to the wisdom of the legislature 15 to make your best judgment based on all of those 16 factors, Representative Noriega. 17 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Would you agree 18 that this is unprecedented? Given your experience in 19 the Texas House, you would agree that this is 20 unprecedented. 21 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: No, sir, I 22 would not, because in fact as legislators, I served with 23 you and many people here up at this table all through 24 the '90s. I can remember up through, I think, even 1997 25 swapping some precincts around and changing boundaries

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Page 303 1 in the state House and state Senate districts. 2 We did some serious adjustment in 1995 on 3 boundaries. We did some major adjustment on boundaries 4 in the 1993 session. There was a court case on 5 Congressional redistricting in '96, and there was a 6 major adjustment -- I think there was even some 7 adjustment immediately before that. 8 So the legislature has the right, the 9 legislature has the duty to redistrict at any time 10 during the 10 years following the census, and we did it 11 throughout my term in the legislature in the '90s. 12 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I would say that 13 it has the prerogative. It has the prerogative. 14 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Yes, sir, 15 based on majority rule. 16 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: It has the 17 prerogative. 18 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Representative, 19 when you said that the Constitution requires -- 20 AUDIENCE: We can't hear you. Speak up, 21 just pull it close. 22 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I think just 23 get it closer. 24 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: I know that you 25 keep up with the Constitution pretty well.

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Page 304 1 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Yes, ma'am. 2 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: I believe that 3 the Constitution requires that you -- that districts are 4 drawn, and that does not, in fact, preclude courts from 5 drawing districts. 6 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Yes. The 7 court -- 8 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: The 9 Constitution of the United States does not say courts 10 are denied the right to draw districts. 11 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Yes, ma'am, 12 the courts can draw districts. And you know from 13 working with me, my good friend, Representative 14 Thompson, that I am committed to -- you know how long I 15 fought to get control of the prisons back from Judge 16 William Wayne Justice. And we did, finally. 17 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: I surely do, 18 and thank you for doing that. 19 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Thank you, 20 ma'am. It's a matter of principle with me that I 21 believe you and our people's elected representatives 22 should control our institutions, that you should draw 23 Congressional districts, that you should run our 24 prisons, that you should run our school finance system. 25 I will be back to visit with you during

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Page 305 1 the special session on school finance issues. You know 2 how strongly I feel about that. You should run our 3 mental health hospitals. It's a matter of principle 4 with me, as a Jeffersonian, that we the people through 5 our elected representatives should control our 6 government, and one of the first responsibilities is to 7 redistrict. 8 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Are you 9 familiar with the fact that in July of 2001, the 10 governor said that he would not call a special session 11 to redistrict the Congressional districts and let the 12 court do it? 13 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Well, again I 14 go back to my response to Representative Noriega. 15 Redistricting is by nature political, and those 16 political decisions are subject to the will of the 17 majority and the governor making his own best judgment. 18 In his opinion, it's time to redistrict, and I strongly 19 support that. And I strongly support your right to 20 redistrict based on your good judgment and whatever the 21 majority of the House and the Senate approve. 22 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: But, John, are 23 you familiar with the fact that he said that? And he 24 also said that -- it was in all the newspapers and no 25 retraction. He also said he believed that it would be a

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Page 306 1 waste of tax dollars. 2 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: And because 3 this is a political process, he has the right to make 4 that decision and then to change his mind based on new 5 circumstances. 6 (Laughter) 7 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: That's true. 8 And it is the beautiful -- that's the wonderful thing 9 about this country is that it is -- this is a political 10 process. 11 (Noise from crowd, unintelligible) 12 (Gavel) 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: The court reporter 14 cannot hear, our tape recorder cannot hear. Please, 15 let's listen. 16 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: And the 17 governor absolutely has the right to use his own 18 judgment about what issues to call before a special 19 session at a time of his choosing, and he's made that 20 decision and obviously all of us have to honor it and 21 the will of the majority will prevail. 22 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Let me ask you 23 some other questions. I know that you've had a 24 chance -- and I know how hard you work, and I appreciate 25 your work.

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Page 307 1 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Thank you. 2 You've been a good friend. 3 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: I know you've 4 long had a chance to work with the various issues that 5 you're interested in. And have you had a chance to have 6 any input into the maps that we're going to be 7 considering? 8 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I was shown 9 the night that y'all -- I was down there on May 12th -- 10 the map of proposed Congressional District 7 that 11 changed the boundaries somewhat, went all the way into 12 almost to downtown and then picked up West U and 13 Bellaire. 14 I was born and raised in West University, 15 and I'll tell you that the independent cities in 16 Houston -- I would encourage you to keep west Houston 17 together, because we've got common transportation 18 problems, common school districts, common 19 quality-of-life issues. The nature of west Houston has 20 always been essentially west of I-45, it covered all of 21 the western Harris County. I was born and raised in 22 West University. 23 The map that I was shown, I don't have 24 any objection to. I would encourage you to stay as 25 close as possible, if you could, to the map that

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Page 308 1 Representative King laid out before the committee, laid 2 out as a floor substitute, I think, the night you were 3 going to take this up. 4 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Have you had a 5 chance to look at the proposed District 9? 6 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Yes, ma'am. 7 The one that you laid out as a floor amendment, I 8 noticed, was -- there is a floor amendment which you 9 laid out -- 10 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: No, not me. 11 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Was there 12 another Representative Thompson that laid out an 13 amendment? 14 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: No, I didn't. 15 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Excuse me. 16 There is -- when you get on the redistricting website 17 and you look at the list of amendments, there is an 18 amendment by a Representative Thompson drawing the 19 9th Congressional District. That's not you? 20 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: No, I didn't 21 get a chance to offer that amendment. 22 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: But it was 23 your amendment they had in advance of the floor debate, 24 prefiled. 25 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Yeah, we had

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Page 309 1 prefiled amendments. 2 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Okay. Because 3 I hadn't had a chance to visit with you about it, and I 4 wanted to confirm that was your amendment that was 5 prefiled. 6 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: It was. 7 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: And draws 8 District 9 in a similar way to the one that 9 Representative King drew. 10 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: I don't think 11 that I go through rice paddies and all that. 12 (Laughter) 13 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I don't know 14 all the details of East Texas. What I do know is I just 15 focus on west Houston and my district because 16 redistricting is very, very personal business. 17 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: But do you 18 think that that district would -- I mean, don't you 19 think that that district should be kind of kept as close 20 as possible, just like the 7th, rather than coming from 21 Port Arthur to Jersey Village? 22 (Laughter) 23 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I would 24 support your -- yes, ma'am, I know. I would support the 25 legislature in whatever you decide as the majority,

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Page 310 1 because I truly believe -- and you know that from 2 watching me -- I don't want judges, whether it be 3 federal or state judges, telling the legislature, 4 whether it's running our prisons, our mental health 5 hospitals, our school finance system, or designing 6 districts; it's up to you, and I want you to do it, and 7 I've got faith in the way you will draw the boundaries, 8 the way the majority will draw the boundaries. 9 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: We have a 10 disagreement, because the Supreme Court did decide the 11 President of the United States, not the legislature. 12 (Cheering and applause) 13 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: As a general 14 rule, though, the courts will always defer to the 15 legislature on political questions; and there is no more 16 political question than redistricting. 17 AUDIENCE: Except the presidency. 18 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Yeah, that's not 19 important. 20 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Now, when you 21 look at the 9th Congressional District, John, it goes -- 22 from what I saw of the map, it goes and picks up pockets 23 of African-Americans in various places. From Port 24 Arthur to Beaumont it comes through and picks up pockets 25 around in the Baytown area, La Porte area, and then

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Page 311 1 picks up other pockets in the Fifth Ward and some parts 2 over in northeast Houston, and it goes over into Acres 3 Homes and a little beyond that. 4 And it appears to pick up a little -- it 5 leaves little strips in there and it picks up a pocket 6 here and leaves a little strip and picks up a pocket 7 there, and to me this doesn't seem like it's going to 8 be -- it seems like it needs some strong communities of 9 interest. 10 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I'm sure 11 you'll make the right decision, but the map that you -- 12 the map that you prefiled as a floor amendment looked 13 very similar to me, and I looked at it pretty carefully 14 on the Internet. 15 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: But it's not 16 anything like that. 17 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Then one thing 18 undoubtedly I'm confident of, Representative Thompson, 19 the map that you drew is one that you believe is 20 superior to the one that Representative King drew for 21 the 9th District. I'm not familiar enough with East 22 Texas or east Houston to be able to tell you how the 9th 23 District should be drawn. 24 As a general rule, I've laid out the 25 obvious practical importance of the legislature

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Page 312 1 redrawing and the strength of Texas' political power and 2 I could just ask you to please keep that in your 3 perception in west Houston. 4 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: From the 5 various maps that you've had a chance to see, which one 6 would you think would be the most favorable one for the 7 State of Texas? 8 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Of the maps 9 that I have seen? 10 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Yes. 11 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I have great 12 faith in your judgment to make -- 13 (Laughter) 14 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: No, no, no. 15 It's very important, and I am very serious about this. 16 I have faith in the legislature's judgment and in a 17 majority of the legislature picking the right map. 18 What I can speak about is District 7, and 19 the King map that was laid out in the committee and 20 adjusted somewhat in the map that he laid out as a floor 21 substitute, in my opinion, will keep west Houston 22 together and that's important. It picks up all the 23 independent cities in west Houston, and that's 24 important, because they've all got interests that are a 25 little different from the City of Houston. I've

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Page 313 1 represented unincorporated areas. I think the map that 2 he drew as a floor substitute for District 7 is one that 3 I would support. I can't comment for the rest of the 4 state. 5 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Don't you 6 believe there is some packing when you start looking at 7 the minority districts, like Congressional District 24, 8 Congressional District 30, and even the 18th -- the 9 18th, there is some packing in those districts. 10 Don't you think that packing -- there is 11 a lot of packing in those districts? 12 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I quite 13 honestly have not looked at those, because I think in 14 redistricting it's important to look at your own 15 district and don't mess around with other people's 16 districts. 17 (Cheering and applause) 18 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Don't mess with 25! 19 REPRESENTATIVE BELL: Thank you. 20 (Standing ovation) 21 (Cheering and applause) 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I hate to stop the 23 dialogue -- I hate to stop the dialogue that we're 24 having with the members and Congressman Culberson, but 25 we still have about 200 Witness Affirmation Forms. We

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Page 314 1 have got to finish by 8:00 o'clock, because our court 2 reporter has been here about six hours longer than she 3 thought she was going to be here. She cannot go past 4 8:00, as you would understand. She's not going to have 5 a nub left on her fingers. 6 But I will take -- Representative 7 Thompson has one question, Representative Coleman has 8 one question, and then we're going to move on, because I 9 want to make sure that our constituents have their time 10 to say what they want to say and we take their 11 testimony. 12 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I want to make 13 it clear for the record, I can't comment on anybody 14 else's district. I'm just saying that I support the way 15 that Representative King has drawn District 7 in his 16 floor substitute. 17 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Do you support 18 his map? 19 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: All I can 20 comment on is the way he's drawn -- as far as myself -- 21 what he's done for District 7, I'm here to testify in 22 support of the legislature's right and duty to district. 23 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Okay. Let me 24 ask you one final question on my part. It is alleged 25 that an African-American would pick up another seat. Do

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Page 315 1 you see that when you look at that map? 2 (Laughter) 3 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: And I'm asking 4 sincerely. 5 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Yes, ma'am, 6 and I'm answering sincerely. I see in the floor 7 amendment which you offered as an amendment that you 8 prefiled -- 9 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: But my 10 amendment is far different than what's on the King map. 11 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Well, I don't, 12 again, know the intricacies of the way the district 13 winds around. But superficially looking at your floor 14 amendment which you laid out, the King 9th District and 15 your floor amendment in my mind look pretty similar. 16 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: I disagree with 17 you, but I can't say the way you see it. 18 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I haven't 19 really analyzed it closely. 20 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: But do you 21 think the King map would pick up another 22 African-American district? 23 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: As I 24 understand it, the King map created a black 9th 25 Congressional District; and as I understood your floor

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Page 316 1 amendment which you prefiled, your 9th District that you 2 created in that floor amendment added a new black seat. 3 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: So we can 4 assume that the 9th District would be a black seat. 5 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: If the 6 legislature chooses to do so, yes, ma'am. 7 REPRESENTATIVE THOMPSON: Thank you. 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And I'm incorrect, 9 we have closer to 400 Witness Affirmation Forms left. 10 So, Representative Coleman, do you still want to ask a 11 question? 12 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I'm sorry, Madam 13 Chair, yes, I would like to. 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 15 Coleman. 16 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Congressman 17 Culberson, did you help Tom DeLay and Jim Ellis draw any 18 maps? 19 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: The only 20 available -- 21 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: It's a very 22 specific question. Have you sat down with them to 23 actually draw maps that have affected districts in this 24 state, Congressional districts in this state? 25 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: The only

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Page 317 1 district on which I had input was the 7th, and I gave 2 them the same testimony that I'm giving to you. 3 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Not testimony. 4 I'm asking, did you sit in a room somewhere with them 5 and prepare maps to be presented to Mr. King to be 6 presented to the legislature? 7 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: No, I never 8 sat in any room to prepare maps. 9 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: But you'll sit 10 on a freeway. 11 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: All I focused 12 on, Representative Coleman, was District 7. I told them 13 the same thing that I've told you. When I'm asked what 14 needs to happen in west Houston and District 7, I tell 15 everybody, publicly and privately, the same thing I'm 16 telling you; and that is west Houston should be kept 17 together. The independent cities in west Harris County 18 should be kept together. 19 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Are you on the 20 group list or the e-mail list for updates on this 21 redistricting process through Mr. DeLay's office that 22 also includes Representative Dan Flynn and others from 23 the -- what's the name of that place, the lobbyist that 24 Perry has hired? The reference group, that's it. 25 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I'm not

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Page 318 1 familiar with them, I'm sorry. 2 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: You're on it. 3 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: No, I'm not 4 familiar with them. 5 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: No, you're on 6 it. You're on the list, so you obviously are getting 7 these distributions, and I just want to make sure you're 8 not saying things here that you -- you know, you are on 9 the record and this is a sworn testimony when you come 10 up here, and -- 11 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: That's right. 12 And one thing you've always known me to be is honest, 13 and I have always been honest with you and every member 14 of this committee, and I've never questioned your 15 honesty. 16 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I'm not 17 questioning yours. I'm just saying, I've seen these 18 things, and I want to make sure that -- you know, you're 19 here, and I appreciate the fact that you're here. I 20 just don't appreciate the fact that you support 21 something that is bad for my community. 22 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: We 23 respectfully disagree, and it's a majority rule. It's a 24 great country. 25 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: And one last

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Page 319 1 question, Madam Chair. 2 When you say -- and this has nothing to 3 do with this, but parsing bothers me. 4 When you say that you support 5 transportation plans that are general and you support 6 Metro, you mean you don't support rail but you support 7 the roads that they build. 8 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I support 9 Metro's role in giving us a 100% transportation solution 10 for the Houston area. 11 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: But Rick asked 12 you did you support rail. 13 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Does this have 14 something to do with redistricting? 15 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Yes, folks, it 16 does, because if he deals with the inner city and his 17 district comes across into mine, which also represents 18 the Montrose according to the King map, it makes a 19 difference. And that's what we're talking about, sir. 20 It has to do with what happens when you have people that 21 represent you and whether you support -- they support 22 the things that your community needs. And it does have 23 something to do with it. 24 (Cheering and applause) 25 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: So because of

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Page 320 1 that it does have to do with redistricting, and you 2 didn't answer the question. 3 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Because I 4 haven't had a chance to. And, in fact, your question 5 proves my point, and that is -- 6 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: No, it doesn't. 7 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Yes, it does, 8 because you're asking me a question about 9 transportation. The decision on redistricting is a 10 political one. Your question proves that point. You 11 have to take into account many different factors. 12 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: You still 13 haven't answered the question that I asked you. 14 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I'm answering 15 your question, if I'm given an opportunity to do so. 16 Your question proves that this is a 17 political decision that has to be made by the 18 legislature, because you have to take into account many 19 factors, transportation. You have to take into account 20 communities of interest and school districts and city 21 council districts and quality-of-life issues. There are 22 many different factors that the legislature is best 23 suited to judge, and that's why the courts have 24 typically deferred to legislatures. 25 And yes, I do support Metro's right and

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Page 321 1 responsibility to be a part of our transportation 2 solution in the Houston area. I have told Metro that 3 repeatedly, and I have done everything I can to work 4 with Metro in helping them come up with a way to be a 5 part of our transportation solution. 6 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I'm sorry, Madam 7 Chair, I have to ask this one. 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Be really brief. 9 We need to get on with the testimony. 10 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I'll be real 11 brief. I understand. We should have hired -- if we 12 have enough money to do redistricting, we have enough 13 money to keep the court reporter here till midnight. 14 (Cheering and applause) 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: That is not the 16 problem. This lady has been here all day and she has to 17 be somewhere. 18 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: I understand 19 that. 20 (Noise from crowd, unintelligible) 21 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Let's move on. 22 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: The deal is 23 this: So you're saying that you don't like the courts, 24 but you know that if a redistricting plan is passed that 25 it's going to the courts. You know that, right?

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Page 322 1 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Of course, and 2 I think they'll ultimately defer to the legislature's 3 judgment. 4 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: But you're 5 saying that you don't trust the courts. Aren't you a 6 lawyer? 7 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: I am an 8 attorney, yes, sir, I am, and -- 9 REPRESENTATIVE COLEMAN: Thank you, Madam 10 Chair, I appreciate the opportunity. 11 (Cheering and applause) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Any other members 13 have a question? 14 REPRESENTATIVE CULBERSON: Thank you very 15 much. 16 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 17 Representative Culberson. 18 The next witness affirmation, Tommy L. 19 Allen? Tommy L. Allen? Martha McGriff? 20 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: I'm not speaking. 21 I'm -- 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Against? You're 23 here. 24 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: I'm against the 25 redistricting.

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Page 323 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay. I need for 2 you -- if I could ask you, if you have not checked on 3 your witness affirmation form for or against, I'll get 4 Mr. Willis to bring it to you, and if you'll just check 5 on there that you're against so we can show it. 6 Lisa Auerbach, Ms. Auerbach? William 7 G. Crozier? 8 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: For or against? 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Against, Auerbach. 10 Against, Bruce Mosier? Mr. Mosier? 11 (Applause) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If you'll just give 13 us your name and who you represent on the record, 14 please. 15 MR. MOSIER: Certainly. My name is Bruce 16 Mosier. I'm here on behalf of myself, my wife, my 17 children, and my grandchildren. 18 And I want to say, after having sat here 19 and listened to Representative Culberson, who the King 20 DeLay map says is going to be my representative in the 21 future, if I am ever on Interstate 10 in front of 22 Representative Culberson, having heard him talk that 23 fast, if he drives that fast and is as indecisive in the 24 number of lanes that he's going to occupy as he was in 25 his testimony, I am going to move from Interstate 10, as

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Page 324 1 I may move from his district. 2 (Cheering and applause) 3 MR. MOSIER: I wanted to address my 4 opening remarks to Representative Rick Noriega. Rick, 5 you're not my representative -- Jessica Farrar is, and 6 I'm happy with that -- but I'm happy to have you here, 7 the questions and the comments that you've made today. 8 I want to tell you there was a gentleman 9 here today that said that he did not believe that you 10 represented your constituency, and I want to assure you 11 that the only people that can tell you that are your 12 constituents, and you do represent them. 13 (Applause) 14 MR. MOSIER: But I want to chastise you 15 for depicting that phantom map that we have as the DeLay 16 King map. It should be called the "King Delay" map. 17 You understand my -- all right. 18 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Bad pun! 19 MR. MOSIER: I have not prepared any 20 written remarks to give to this committee; but if I had, 21 I would entitle them, "What the hell do you think you're 22 doing?" 23 (Cheering and applause) 24 MR. MOSIER: And I would have included in 25 all of those the redundant remarks about children's

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Page 325 1 healthcare, aid for our dependent families, our 2 transportation system, and all of the things that have 3 been discussed here today. I will not address those 4 because my remarks would be redundant. 5 I have lived through redistricting. My 6 Congressman was Representative Gene Green, and in 1996 I 7 was redistricted into Sheila Jackson Lee's. I'm happy 8 to be where she is. 9 They want to now put me in Culberson's 10 district. And I want to tell you that he has now 11 redefined not only what redistricting is, but what west 12 Houston is, because I don't live in west Houston and he 13 wants to be my representative. 14 I am concerned about the costs of this 15 whole exercise that we're in. I've heard it today said 16 it's going to cost a-million-seven to have this 17 redistricting session. I've also heard it said that 18 it's going cost upwards to $9 million to defend it in 19 the courts. Now, I'm a lawyer, and I will tell -- in 20 closing, I want to tell this committee and I want you to 21 go back and tell them that they don't need to do this 22 because it's going to cost too much and they could have 23 spent that money better somewhere else. 24 But I want to tell you that I'm happy 25 that you and Enron and the other energy providers have

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Page 326 1 gotten involved in the "Full Employment for Lawyers" 2 system, and I thank you. 3 (Laughter and applause) 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, do you 5 have any questions of the witness? Thank you for your 6 testimony. 7 Audrey B. Henry? Mr. Henry? 8 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: For or against? 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Against. I'm 10 getting there. Domingo C. Marquez? Marquez, against. 11 Rita Ruth. We know Rita's here. 12 MS. RUTH: Finally! 13 (Applause) 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If you'll come to 15 the microphone and tell us -- 16 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Who's next? 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Tom Zacks, 18 Z-A-C-K-S, and Russell Smith are the next two. 19 Ms. Ruth, if you'll just give us your 20 name and who you're with for the record. 21 MS. RUTH: Yes. I'm Rita Ruth, the 22 People's Action Coalition; and our motto is, if you 23 care, be there. Well, I'm here, and I sure as hell 24 care. 25 Madam Chairman, I want to -- and don't

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Page 327 1 time me on this, because this is extra. What happened a 2 while ago while Culberson are here, we're not rude 3 people ordinarily, but you were very unfair. Now, this 4 man -- we were here all day long. Sheila Jackson Lee 5 were here, Nick Lampson and all the rest of them were 6 here all day long. This man waltzes in at the last 7 minute and gets on to speak and then he waltzes out 8 again. He doesn't even want to hear us! Now, that is 9 rudeness. We were not rude. We were not rude! 10 (Cheering and applause) 11 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: As any elected 12 official -- and they have come in all day long in and 13 out at various times -- I have recognized them, let them 14 speak, and I have given each and every elected official 15 the same amount of time. And yes, ma'am, you have five 16 minutes and you're using your time, so if you will 17 continue on. 18 MS. RUTH: Okay. I'm here to speak loud 19 and clear -- am I on? I turned it off. What do I do? 20 This way? Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. 21 I am here to state loud and clear that I 22 am totally against redistricting, and I thought that we 23 all had taken care of this issue a couple of years ago. 24 Not only is it too costly, but you all have your 25 priorities backwards. I feel that this is just another

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Page 328 1 diversion from what we really should be focusing on. 2 All we have heard the last few months is 3 about the cuts and slashes for the unfortunates, family 4 life, cuts in Social Security, Medicare, education, 5 children's programs such as WIC and CHIP, and there is 6 great flooding everywhere. Our jails and prisons are 7 overcrowded with people that should be in rehab centers, 8 and many of these persons have bipolar problems, and 9 they should go directly to a medical facility and not to 10 jail or prison. 11 (Light applause) 12 MS. RUTH: We desperately need a 13 comprehensive light rail system from all counties coming 14 into Houston, not wasting our money on more concrete, 15 which causes flooding. And we need not ask why all of 16 this is happening. This administration has run out -- 17 let's see, I'm lost again. 18 This administration has run our financial 19 situation into the ground and are causing great rack and 20 ruin what with the billions and billions being spent on 21 the vicious, immoral military adventures in the Middle 22 East. This administration has already brought about a 23 great national budget deficit, so where are these 24 billions and billions of dollars for the Middle East 25 coming from? I don't know. In fact, they're putting

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Page 329 1 hospitals in every city in Iraq and giving the people 2 free medical assistance, can you believe that? I don't 3 think that anyone can dare to answer that question. 4 What in hell is going on? I always felt that charity 5 began at home, but apparently not for the people in this 6 nation of ours. We have great pollutions killing us, 7 and prescription drugs for the elderly on fixed incomes 8 should be included in Medicare being totally free. And 9 I don't want to hear about 20% of this; I don't 10 understand them, anyway. I just want it free, period. 11 We can afford it. We've got billions of dollars, 12 remember? 13 Let's see. This is an issue that gives 14 with one hand and takes away with two, tax cuts. The 15 minute there is a tax cut, prices go up on insurance, 16 utilities, gas, and other services. Only the very 17 wealthy profit from these cuts and the rest of us have 18 to, as we say, tighten our belts. All of this is 19 taxation without representation, and this is totally 20 unacceptable. You all seem to forget that you are our 21 employees. We pay your salaries. 22 And we need a second patriot act, number 23 three, for those who are financially ruining this great 24 country. We have the best government in the world, but 25 it is some of the people in it that are the bad apples.

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Page 330 1 I'm almost through. Folks, it is time for buses or 2 planes filled with all of the brave D's going to 3 Oklahoma again. We were proud of you then, so make us 4 proud again, and don't forget that we will remember in 5 November. Thank you. 6 (Cheering and applause) 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 8 questions? Thank you for your testimony. Thank you. 9 Tom Z-A-K-E-S, is he here? For 10 Congressional redistricting. Russell Smith, Mr. Smith? 11 For Congressional redistricting. Ron Bruner, Mr. 12 Bruner, he is for Congressional redistricting. 13 Margaret Hall, Ms. Hall, she is against 14 Congressional redistricting. Regina Flanagan, 15 Ms. Flanagan, for -- I'm sorry, against Congressional 16 redistricting. David W. Cook, Jr., he does not wish to 17 testify, but he is against Congressional redistricting. 18 Sam Almaguerra, Mr. Almaguerra, is against Congressional 19 redistricting. Linda Herrera, Ms. Herrera, against 20 Congressional redistricting. Muriel Gesee, against 21 Congressional redistricting. Monica Zepeda? 22 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Here. 23 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And as Monica comes 24 down, next in line, Veronica Leal, Mary Ascot, Lynn 25 McBee, Eric Carter, Shawn Leventhal, Annette L-O-W-N, I

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Page 331 1 believe it's L, A.J. Pate. 2 Go ahead. If you'll give your name and 3 who you're with for the record, please. 4 MS. ZEPEDA: Sure. Monica Zepeda, I'm 5 just a private citizen. Can y'all hear me? 6 AUDIENCE: Yes. 7 MS. ZEPEDA: I represent myself, 8 basically, but I'm also a board member and active 9 community activist in my community in the Sixth Ward 10 area, and I'm represented by Sheila Jackson Lee. I'm a 11 constituent. 12 Basically I was going to point out many 13 different things. We've been here all day long. You 14 guys have probably heard much of the same rhetoric that 15 I would point out, many of the same points that I've 16 noticed is that this is costing a lot of money. 17 I'm a homeowner, and I'm incensed that my 18 taxpayer's money is going to this process. And I just 19 think it's ridiculous that we are sitting here today. I 20 was here about 9:30, 10:00 this morning, and I'm tired. 21 I'm real tired. I missed a baby shower today, hopefully 22 she didn't have a baby. 23 But basically I just feel that the 24 redistricting that's going to be happening has created 25 or will create and disadvantage many minorities and

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Page 332 1 Democrats. I've heard lots of rhetoric about other 2 districts being lost or the breakup of the communities 3 and I wonder if this is really a good plan, and I'm 4 curious as to who originally devised this plan when I 5 heard that in the courts, it has already been decided 6 upon; so should this not happen again until 2010? So 7 I'm curious about, why are we here today? 8 Finally, I really don't have very much to 9 say. I guess, as I've said, all the rhetoric I think 10 has already been spoken. And I think the consensus is 11 clear today. We say no. 12 (Applause) 13 AUDIENCE: No! No! 14 MS. ZEPEDA: I guess what I'm really, 15 really pissed off about is that people are not 16 listening, and it's unfortunate that we're in this 17 position. I don't know if it's because we have a 18 Republican in the House, we have a Republican governor 19 that was -- that inherited his position, and he 20 inherited that position because of hanging chads. So -- 21 (Applause) 22 MS. ZEPEDA: So I guess the only thing I 23 can add is that when the next presidential election 24 happens that we should vote for a Democrat. 25 AUDIENCE: Yes. Yes.

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Page 333 1 MS. ZEPEDA: So finally, I'm glad that I 2 have had the opportunity to speak today. However, I'm 3 really disappointed that we are speaking in vain, from 4 what I hear, and that this redistricting process is a 5 fast-moving train and it's being railroaded against me, 6 and I don't appreciate it. 7 (Applause) 8 MS. ZEPEDA: Thank you. 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I need for you to 10 finish -- there's a few things that are not finished on 11 your witness affirmation. If you'll just go over it, 12 and D has a pen, if you'll finish it, please. 13 Members, are there any questions of 14 Monica? Thank you. Veronica Leal? 15 MS. LEAL: Yes, ma'am. My name is 16 Veronica Leal, and actually I traveled from Travis 17 County. I traveled three hours to be here today, so 18 I've just kind of been hanging around. 19 (Applause) 20 MS. LEAL: I came because I wasn't able 21 to attend the meeting in Austin -- 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Monica, could you 23 just for the record -- Veronica, I'm sorry. Can you 24 just, for the record, tell me if you're testifying for 25 yourself or for an organization?

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Page 334 1 MS. LEAL: No, for myself. For myself. 2 And I came because I wasn't -- I couldn't make it so the 3 San Antonio one because I work. And I guess I really 4 didn't intend to speak, but I felt compelled to, not 5 only -- because the gentleman that just spoke said that 6 it's the majority rule. Well, I think that that is so 7 outdated. I think that it's ridiculous to say that, and 8 the reason why is because if the minorities and the 9 civil rights movement didn't say something or didn't 10 stand up, where would we be at today? Minorities 11 matter. They matter. 12 (Applause) 13 MS. LEAL: And if anybody had any common 14 sense and they looked at the census, since we're talking 15 about the census, we Hispanics make up the majority of 16 the minority now. And I don't know if y'all were paying 17 attention to this, but we vote primarily Democratic. So 18 in a couple of years, y'all will be out of office 19 anyways, so I think -- 20 (Cheering) 21 MS. LEAL: This is absolutely ridiculous. 22 It's a power play, and I think minorities matter. And 23 by 2040, the people that y'all call minorities today are 24 going to be the majority. So that's all that I have to 25 say, and I definitely vote against this.

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Page 335 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 2 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 3 (Applause) 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mary Ascot? She's 5 against redistricting as proposed. Lynn McBee? 6 MS. McBEE: Here, Lynn McBee. 7 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Ms. McBee, if 8 you'll just tell us who you're testifying for. 9 MS. McBEE: Myself. 10 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 11 MS. McBEE: You're welcome. And thank 12 you for allowing me. And at 6:30 in the evening, I want 13 to tell you I am not an elected official beyond being my 14 voting precinct chair. I am a U.S. citizen and a 15 resident of the State of Texas. 16 I am very well represented by the U.S. 17 Congress in the form of Congressman Chris Bell, who won 18 his election over a lot of contenders. 19 (Applause) 20 MS. McBEE: And we chose the best of the 21 lot, regardless of party, in this instance. You must 22 know that as we've gotten to know Congressman Bell, we 23 realize how wise was the vote that we cast for him. 24 Now, I tend to read things at their 25 source. As a librarian, that's what I was trained to

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Page 336 1 do, rather than accept the filtered version. In that 2 spirit of what did it say, how did it say it, I must 3 read some excerpts to you from Mr. Greg Abbott dated 4 April the 23rd, 2003, our honored Attorney General of 5 Texas. 6 In response to the Honorable Joe Crabb, 7 Chair of the House Committee on Redistricting of the 8 Texas House, it was opinion number GA-0063, which I'm 9 sure all of you have read or have been relayed to, and 10 it talks about the question of the Texas Legislature's 11 legal rights and responsibilities in connection with 12 Congressional redistricting following the 2000 census, 13 and I will excerpt and not read the four-pager. 14 The United States Constitution provides 15 that representatives shall be apportioned among the 16 several states according to their respective numbers as 17 determined by the decennial census. The 77th 18 Legislature failed to enact a redistricting plan. The 19 apportionment provisions of the United States 20 Constitution require states to establish Congressional 21 districts substantially equal in population. As a 22 result, two additional Congressional seats were acquired 23 and redrawn and so forth and so on, which is now 24 history. 25 The courts did their thing because the

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Page 337 1 legislature could not cooperate to combine and get a 2 consensus. They would not cooperate, which forced the 3 courts to take over the process. Texas legislators are 4 entirely free to replace the court-ordered plan, as the 5 court urged, and continue their efforts to fulfill their 6 constitutional duties so long as that redistricting plan 7 comports with Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act. If it 8 does so, Texas must obtain preclearance of the plan 9 under the Voting Rights Act. 10 Whatever plan -- none of which are the 11 subject here today, so I'm speaking to you 12 conceptually -- though you have the authority to do so, 13 you are not compelled. You have a choice, just as we 14 do. I'm not angry. I'm contemptuous of this effort, of 15 Washington's power grab. Redistricting is always 16 contentious and divisive, certainly when done by elected 17 politicos who have a stake in this. 18 You heard with great eloquence the 19 statement by the representative of the League of Women 20 Voters who, with great lucidity and common sense, 21 afforded a set of standards by which this process should 22 be followed. If you have a plan -- and you've said 23 today, well, it's not complete. We have one here, we 24 have one there, but you can just speak on it generally, 25 and so I'll do so.

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Page 338 1 May I suggest that you have several 2 choices? You have an option as a subcommittee to report 3 to your committee. Is that correct? Well, you can 4 simply report back to the committee that you heard the 5 citizenry and you will follow principle and you will 6 listen to the citizens whom you represent, in spite of 7 the sighs of resignation by some, and suggest that no 8 different plan is desired nor wanted. That's the 9 message you got here in great numbers today. 10 (Applause) 11 MS. McBEE: That is what you can do to 12 fulfill your subcommittee obligations is relay what this 13 public hearing produced, take the message back. 14 Now, what happens next? The committee 15 then, following the call of the governor for the special 16 session beginning Monday, what can the committee do? 17 Well, we're going to watch. Firstly, the committee can 18 report to the full legislature that it will not 19 recommend any new plan. So what's the gov going to do, 20 tar and feather you? 21 The point is that there are choices all 22 along the way, and the apportionment requirement of the 23 constitution does not give liberty to changing the plan 24 of redistricting according to party politics. I don't 25 care what party you're in. If I elected you, you have a

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Page 339 1 right to be there until the next decade, if that's what 2 you can afford to do. The bottom line is I absolutely 3 oppose any change in the redistricting process, that you 4 are choosing to do something you do not have to do, the 5 courts have not required you to do, nor does the Texas 6 Constitution mandate that you go back and do it. 7 It would be utterly -- I can't even think 8 of the word -- unconscionable for you to do anything but 9 go back to Austin and say, "They don't want it." Thank 10 you very much. 11 (Applause) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you for your 13 testimony. Members, questions? 14 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: One question. 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 16 Noriega. 17 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you, Madam 18 Chair. Real quick, I understand as a librarian you 19 appreciate the source of documents and such. Have you 20 had the chance to read -- given how much money we're 21 spending on this process -- had the chance to read the 22 Homeland Security report, when they went after -- 23 looking after us using your federal tax dollars and the 24 state police? Have you read that report? 25 MS. McBEE: I have not read it per se,

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Page 340 1 but there is a great deal of discussion amongst 2 librarians about the effect on the freedom of speech and 3 on the freedom for libraries as well. 4 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. And 5 given that you've been here all day and even had an 6 accident, I appreciate you being here. I'd like to give 7 this to you. This is a copy I have. 8 MS. McBEE: I have it on file, but I 9 appreciate it. And thank you for your time and your 10 patience. 11 (Applause) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mr. Eric Carter, is 13 Mr. Carter here? Against Congressional redistricting. 14 Shawn Leventhal, Eric Carter? Shawn Leventhal? 15 If you'll state your name and who you're 16 with, please, for the record. 17 MR. LEVENTHAL: My name is Shawn 18 Leventhal. I'm here on behalf of myself. I'm a student 19 at Rice University, which is located in the heart of the 20 25th Congressional District of Texas. I'm proud to be 21 part of one of the most diverse districts in the entire 22 country. The voting age population is about 22% black, 23 31% Hispanic, and the district votes about 51% 24 Democratic. Pretty much anybody can win in the 25th 25 Congressional District of Texas, yet in the map that's

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Page 341 1 been proposed it's been completely eliminated. 2 I along with many Rice students and many 3 across the county who choose to vote in Texas feel very 4 well represented by Congressman Chris Bell, and those 5 folks before us felt very well represented by 6 Congressman Ken Bentsen. They both have reached out and 7 energized students, both to vote and become energized by 8 the political process. And many of us, including me, 9 cast our first ballot for Chris Bell; and how are you 10 going to tell us that our votes don't matter anymore, 11 that we really can't make an intelligent decision? I 12 think I go to Rice, I am fully capable of making an 13 intelligent decision on who I want to represent me. 14 (Applause) 15 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mr. Levinthal, if 16 they applaud, could you stop for just a moment? The 17 court reporter cannot hear you and we are on tape and we 18 cannot pick it up, please. Thank you. 19 MR. LEVENTHAL: Okay. Well, the question 20 was, you know, if I'm a student at Rice, and it's 21 really -- how can you tell me that I don't know how to 22 vote for? I'm not qualified to vote for my own 23 representative? I'm fully, fully qualified and capable. 24 Members of the committee, I'm very 25 disappointed to be here this evening. We really

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Page 342 1 shouldn't be here. We should be dealing with more 2 substantive matters. I'm also disappointed that the 3 full committee is not here to hear my testimony, 4 especially Representative King, since he is the one 5 proposing the bill that's going to be before the House. 6 (Light applause) 7 MR. LEVENTHAL: It's unfortunate that 8 with so many critical issues facing our state, and many 9 of them affecting my generation, that we're here over a 10 partisan issue. Texas has got a wonderful tradition of 11 a bipartisan Texas Legislature, and yet the Republicans 12 tried with , who was an aide and advisor 13 to Speaker Gingrich, said that we're trying to change 14 the tone in the state legislature and state capitals 15 towards bitterness and nastiness and partisanship. 16 There is really no need for this special 17 session on redistricting. I'm not going to spend most 18 of my time beating a dead horse. Representative Noriega 19 made most of the points that I really wanted to make. 20 Dr. Alford is a professor of mine, and he points out 21 that the 15 districts that Republicans hold are now are 22 "very much well earned," quote/unquote, but the other 23 five districts are districts that Republicans can win. 24 This map is fair, very clearly fair, and 25 there's no need to change it. If Republican candidates

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Page 343 1 can't win the districts, then that's their problem. And 2 if they're voting in all those five districts, Sandlin, 3 Turner, Paul, Edwards and Stenholm, all voted Republican 4 state lines yet voted for a Democratic member of 5 Congress, just like I feel I am qualified, they are 6 qualified to make the decision of who best represents 7 their interests in Congress. The districts favor 8 Republicans. 9 While I'm political science and policies 10 study major and not a math major, 15 districts, solid 11 GOP, plus five districts that very much need 12 Republicans, equals 20 districts. That would give the 13 Republicans in Congress or a fifth of the Republican 14 Party 20 opportunities, really, to control the 15 Congressional delegation from the State of Texas, 16 leaving Democrats with 12. So Tom DeLay's vision is 17 accomplished by the map the Supreme Court has already 18 approved. 19 Please preserve the current maps. 20 They're fair. And as Texas goes and the nation goes, we 21 really need to set an example for the country and set an 22 example especially for America's young people that, 23 well, politics is about more substantive things than 24 partisanship. Young people see the government as 25 unresponsive. People see the government as not caring

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Page 344 1 or not something that they feel they can personally 2 affect. 3 I wish Professor Murray was here to give 4 me his feeling for what the voting percentage is for 5 people in my age group. It's abysmal, I can tell you 6 that. And doing this is not going to do anything to 7 help. 8 (Applause) 9 MR. LEVENTHAL: Please, please, I urge 10 you, I urge you to show the young people of Texas and 11 young people of America that politics is about real 12 issues and real people and not petty partisanship. 13 Republicans have the majority technically in terms of 14 districts that favor them. Don't change a thing. Let's 15 get on to the serious issues, please. Thank you for 16 your time. 17 (Applause) 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Any questions? 19 Thank you for your testimony. 20 The Chair is now going to recognize 21 Representative Joe Moreno. 22 REPRESENTATIVE MORENO: Thank you, ma'am 23 Chairperson. The GOP Congressional redistricting 24 proposal does not create any more Hispanic -- 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Joe, before you

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Page 345 1 start, I know we all know who you are. If you'll just 2 tell us who you are, where you're from and who you 3 represent. 4 REPRESENTATIVE MORENO: Joe E. Moreno, 5 State Representative District 143, Houston, Texas, and 6 I'm here on behalf of myself. 7 The GOP Congressional redistricting 8 proposal does not create any more Hispanic districts. 9 Both the current and Congressional plans -- excuse me. 10 Both the current Congressional plan and the Republican 11 proposal create seven opportunity districts for Hispanic 12 voters. Unlike the current plan which was upheld by the 13 U.S. Supreme Court, several proposed new districts could 14 be unconstitutional. 15 The DeLay plan simply changes one 16 existing Hispanic opportunity district Congressional 17 District 23, into a mainly Republican district and 18 swapped it for a new and possibly packed Congressional 19 District 25 down in South Texas. A number of 20 surrounding counties are split unnecessarily by bizarre 21 District 15, which runs over 400 miles like a thin 22 ribbon from the Rio Grande Valley Laredo to north 23 Austin, a district that would likely be found 24 unconstitutional. 25 The DeLay proposal splits Hispanic

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Page 346 1 communities in Dallas and Tarrant counties, split into 2 at least six districts, 5, 6, 24, 26, 30 and 32, part of 3 a pattern of alternately packing and cracking Hispanic 4 communities repeated across the state in areas outside 5 the seven Hispanic opportunity districts. By submerging 6 these Hispanic voters in what normally are GOP 7 districts, statewide Hispanic voting strength is reduced 8 because their votes won't count on election day. 9 The Texas House Congressional 10 redistricting process which is driven by Tom DeLay was 11 openly hostile to Hispanics, marked by District 12 Committee Chairman Joe Crabb's discriminatory conduct in 13 blatantly partisan hearings. When a question about why 14 a hearing notice and field hearings were not scheduled 15 to allow comments from Spanish-speaking Texans, 16 Mr. Crabb replied, and I quote, "Mr. Raymond, there are 17 only two people that I know of on the committee that 18 speak Spanish. The rest of us would have a very 19 difficult time if we were out in another area other than 20 Austin or other English-speaking areas to be able to 21 have committee hearings or to be able to converse with 22 people that do not speak English." This is offensive. 23 The English-only redistricting process is 24 an insulting violation of the Voting Rights Act. 25 Representative Richard Raymond filed a formal complaint

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Page 347 1 with the U.S. Department of Justice on May 7th but was 2 forced to withdraw his complaint and went to the federal 3 court after receiving a lot of information that the 4 normal processes of the Department of Justice have been 5 circumvented by Congressman DeLay. 6 My last point is that DeLay -- Mr. DeLay 7 votes against Hispanic interests 93% of the time, as 8 would new members of Congress who would owe him their 9 elections. DeLay has also voted against extending the 10 child tax credit to low-income working families, and he 11 has voted to end the school lunch program, eliminate 12 child care for 50,000 low-income children, cut 13 nutritional programs for women and children, and denied 14 Head Start to 180,000 children nationwide. 15 And I've got something I'd like to add or 16 submit to you. It's the National Hispanic Leadership 17 scores for the Texas Congressional delegation. I'd like 18 to submit that to you for the record. 19 And I'll share with you, since 20 Mr. Culberson -- I think he left -- but Mr. Culberson is 21 a perfect example. If you look at the proposed map -- 22 and I don't know which one we're talking about, because 23 I honestly don't see a map, I haven't seen a map, I 24 don't think we have a map. I hear that Monday we might 25 have a map. I think Mr. King, in fairness to him,

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Page 348 1 that's where he's at. I think he's working on it now 2 because I know he went to lunch with Jim Ellis, who 3 works for Tom DeLay. So I think he's probably working 4 on the map, so let's don't be too hard on him for not 5 being here. He's probably working on the map with 6 Mr. DeLay as we speak. 7 But if you look at Mr. Culberson's record 8 here for the first part of the session, it's zero 9 percent, and he doesn't do much better in the 10 African-American community. If we go with the new map 11 or whatever map that's out there, it's 28% in the 12 African-American community; and that's horrible if you 13 figure that he might be representing part of Garnet 14 Coleman's district; so he made my point just by showing 15 up here today. I'm glad he did so I can submit this for 16 the record. Thank you. 17 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, Joe. 18 Any questions of Representative Marino? Thank you for 19 your testimony, Joe. 20 Annette L-O-W-N, against Congressional 21 redistricting. A.J. Pate, Mr. Pate? Mr. Pate, if you 22 will just give your name and who you're testifying for, 23 yes, and if you -- 24 MR. PATE: My name is A.J. Pate. I'm 25 from Houston, Texas, and I'm here as private citizen.

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Page 349 1 I'm here to speak in favor of redistricting, but I'm not 2 in favor of any of the plans that I've seen shown here 3 today. I'm for a fair redistricting. 4 I was here in 1991 when the Democrats 5 were in charge of the process, and I was -- I spoke in 6 that case for fair redistricting. Of course they 7 produced the worst statewide gerrymandering in the 8 history of the United States, which was later declared 9 unconstitutional. 10 In 1991 -- now, there have been a lot of 11 complaints about not seeing a map today. In 1991, 12 nobody saw a map, not even the Republican members of the 13 redistricting committee, until five minutes before the 14 Democratic committee walked into the floor of the House 15 and took a vote on that plan. So at least there's been 16 some plans I hear proposed that people can take some 17 arguments to, but in 1991 nobody saw a map until it was 18 passed on the floor of the House. 19 It now appears that the Republicans are 20 going to gerrymander just as the Democrats have done for 21 the last 40 years. I think this is regrettable. I was 22 expecting more out of the Republicans than that. I 23 think the plans should be drawn on fair redistricting 24 principles, whether with Democrats in charge, whether 25 Republicans are in charge.

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Page 350 1 I think it's wrong, as the Republican 2 plan apparently does, to target certain individual 3 Congressmen for defeat. I think that's wrong to target. 4 I think it's also wrong to target particular communities 5 of interest. An example there is in the City of Austin. 6 The City of Austin has basically the population for a 7 Congressional district by itself; and if there's a 8 community of interest in the State of Texas, it's got to 9 be the City of Austin. You can't -- if the City of 10 Austin is not a community of interest, then that term 11 has no meaning at all. 12 (Light applause) 13 MR. PATE: So here I am again with 14 Republicans in charge and I'm going to request the 15 legislature again to draw the lines on a fair basis. 16 I'm a partisan person. I have my own partisan, and I'm 17 a Republican, but I think -- I feel real strongly that 18 the plans should be drawn on a fair basis. These 19 districts do not belong to politicians; they belong to 20 the people. 21 (Applause) 22 MR. PATE: And the governor has called 23 for a map that is fair, compact, and respects 24 communities of interest. I certainly support that. I 25 guess it remains to be seen whether that's what we'll

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Page 351 1 get. 2 Of the plans that have been produced so 3 far this year in 2003, there's only one map that meets 4 those three standards, and that's the map that I 5 prepared which is on the web viewer as Map 1160, 6 Congressional map. I prepared that map totally without 7 any reference to the residences of incumbent 8 politicians. I did it without looking at any political 9 data at all. I drew it strictly based on communities of 10 interest. 11 The three communities of interest I used, 12 one was at a macro level, which is conciliarly 13 government. That's an apolitical election of state -- 14 of city offices and there's 24 councils of governments 15 in the State of Texas. They are neutral, and that was 16 what -- I maximized the number of districts that I could 17 draw within each one of those councils of governments, 18 or in some cases I combined several councils of 19 governments. 20 I also used counties to the extent that I 21 could. Those of course are historical communities of 22 interest, and anyone that's lived in a rural county 23 knows the importance that the county seat has in their 24 lives and the industry and commercial activity of that 25 town. Also in the process of drawing my plan, I looked

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Page 352 1 at 22 cities in the State of Texas. The current plan 2 drawn by the court split, I think, some 62 cities. I 3 only split 22. 4 And then at a micro level, I used census 5 tracts. If you read the definition of the U.S. Bureau 6 of the Census, it's almost a perfect definition of a 7 community of interest, their definition of a census 8 tract, and I used those to the extent that I could. The 9 only reason I varied from using strictly census tracts 10 was in order to conform to the zero deviation which 11 seems to be popular for some reason here in Texas. It's 12 not required by the U.S. Supreme Court, particularly if 13 you follow fair redistricting principles, but I guess if 14 people are not prepared to follow the principles came up 15 with zero deviation, for whatever purpose that serves. 16 Also in my plan I draw a new Hispanic 17 district in Dallas. It is not one that they're probably 18 likely at this point in time to elect a representative 19 of their choice, but the district has a Spanish 20 population I think somewhere on the range of 60 to 65%. 21 They have at this time only a 25% voter registration. 22 But overall, the district is a 71% minority district, 23 black and Hispanic. 24 On rural districts along the border of 25 Texas, the current court plan has five districts that

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Page 353 1 touch on the border of Texas with Mexico. Two of those 2 go into San Antonio to get a substantial part of their 3 population. In my plan, I have four districts, but 4 they're all strictly border districts. They do not go 5 into any major metropolitan area in order to draw a 6 population. 7 In East Texas, the court's plan has -- I 8 ran out of time. If I can just finish up here just 9 briefly. I request that the legislature, when they're 10 going into this special session, to consider 11 establishing fair, objective and neutral redistricting 12 principles first; and then produce a plan as based on 13 those principles. And as a guide I've included my 14 handout, standards that have been adopted by the State 15 of Iowa, by the State of Arizona, and have been proposed 16 in the State Georgia, and I would suggest that those 17 provide good guidelines in guiding the legislature in 18 drawing a fair plan for the State of Texas. 19 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 20 Mr. Pate. Members, any questions? 21 (Applause) 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative 23 Noriega? 24 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: I was just going 25 to add, thank you for all your work, Mr. Pate. It's

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Page 354 1 obvious you put a tremendous amount of work into this. 2 As a part of your fair redistricting principles, is it 3 your opinion that after the next product is let that we 4 should have statewide hearings on that product so that 5 we could hear from the people? 6 MR. PATE: As a general principle, I 7 certainly would support that. I would support statewide 8 hearings. But I was also part of the process in 1991, 9 and they held hearings all over the State of Texas and 10 promptly ignored basically everything the people said in 11 those hearings. 12 The people over and over again -- and I 13 got the transcripts of the hearings that I didn't 14 attend -- but they said over and over again, "don't 15 split our community of interest, don't split our city," 16 and of course the Democratic legislature then split 17 virtually every city in the State of Texas in that 1991 18 plan. 19 I mean, what good does it do to hold 20 hearings if you're not going do pay attention to what 21 people say anyway? 22 (Applause) 23 MR. PATE: And that applies here as well 24 as in 1991. 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Representative

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Page 355 1 Talton. 2 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: A couple of 3 things. Do you think that the legislature are the ones 4 that should draw the lines? 5 MR. PATE: Yes, definitely. 6 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: And secondly, it 7 appears that the plan, just by looking at it, appears to 8 be a 20/12. Is that close? 9 MR. PATE: I think that's what the 10 court's plan would show. 11 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: Well, according 12 to something in here it shows it as an 18/14. 13 MR. PATE: I think that was an analysis I 14 did using the lieutenant governor's race, which was the 15 closest statewide race. And in that, the Republican 16 lieutenant governor candidate carried 18 of the 17 districts; and in my plan, he would have carried 20. 18 I don't know how that will play out in 19 the Congressional districts, but -- Congressional 20 candidates, but that's the way it played out in the 21 lieutenant governor's race. 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Any questions, 23 members? 24 MR. PATE: Could I expand a little bit on 25 my answer to his question on who should do this?

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Page 356 1 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I would love for 2 you to, but we've got a lot more people to speak that 3 are here, but thank you so much. You've spent a lot of 4 time, and you have quite an historical perspective on 5 this. Thank you, Mr. Pate. 6 MR. PATE: Thank you. 7 (Applause) 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Craig Stewart? 9 Craig Stewart? 10 MR. STEWART: Yeah, I thought I was never 11 going to get on. 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And then after 13 Mr. Stewart will be David Droell, Diane Mosier -- okay. 14 Several people filled out more than one. And then we'll 15 will have Linda George Smith and Zanetta Bernie, so if 16 you'll be ready. 17 Mr. Stewart, if you will give your name 18 and who you're with. 19 MR. STEWART: Surely. My name is Craig 20 Stewart, and I'm representing myself. I'm a student at 21 the . Go Coogs! 22 (Light laughter) 23 MR. STEWART: The reason I'm here today 24 is to say that I am against the redistricting process. 25 I think that it's not so much a matter of how the map is

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Page 357 1 drawn, it's not a matter of how many districts each 2 party has, it's not a matter of whether this is 3 gerrymandered or whether this has this percentage or 4 whether the district voted statewide for the Republican 5 Party but would elect a candidate from the Democratic 6 Party or any of that. I think that that's completely 7 irrelevant. 8 When you look at the Texas 9 Constitution -- I'll hand you this -- it seems like 10 everybody should be pretty familiar with this. It's a 11 pretty key document in this whole process, right? 12 In Article III, Section 28, which I know 13 several other people have talked about already, but hey, 14 you know, we've got to keep rehashing this, 15 apparently -- it says that "The Legislature shall, in 16 its first regular session after the publication of each 17 United States decennial census, apportion the state into 18 Senatorial and Representative districts, agreeable to 19 the provisions of Sections 25 and 26 of this article. 20 In the event the legislature shall, at any such first 21 regular session following the publication of the United 22 States decennial census, fail to make such 23 apportionment, same shall be done by the Legislative 24 Redistricting Board of Texas, which is hereby created 25 and shall be composed of five members as follows: The

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Page 358 1 Lieutenant Governor, the Speaker of the House of 2 Representatives, the Attorney General, the Comptroller 3 of Public Accounts, and the Commissioner of the General 4 Land Office, a majority of whom shall constitute a 5 quorum. Said board shall assemble in the City of Austin 6 within 90 days after the final adjournment of such 7 regular session. The board shall, within 60 days after 8 assembling, apportion the state into Senatorial and 9 Representative Districts or into Senatorial or 10 Representative Districts, as the failure of action of 11 such legislature may make necessary. Such apportionment 12 shall be in writing and signed by three or more of the 13 members of the board, duly acknowledged as the act and 14 deed of such board, and when so executed and filed with 15 the Secretary of State shall have force and effect of 16 law. Such apportionment shall become effective at the 17 next succeeding statewide general election. The Supreme 18 Court of Texas shall have jurisdiction to compel such 19 board to perform its duties in accordance with the 20 provisions of this section by writ of mandamus or other 21 extraordinary writs conformable to the usages of law." 22 Wow, this is long. 23 "The Legislature shall provide necessary 24 funds for clerical and technical aid and further 25 expenses incidental to the work of the Lieutenant

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Page 359 1 Governor, and the Speaker of the House of 2 Representatives shall be entitled to receive per diem 3 and travel expenses during the full session in the same 4 manner as they will receive while serving in a special 5 session of the Legislature," blah, blah, blah, and then 6 it's amended. 7 Okay. What this whole shenanigans means, 8 and the point of me reading this entire bit, is simply 9 this: It's written in such a way that the Legislature 10 is supposed to do this every 10 years. It's after the 11 decennial census. You know, what would happen at the 12 federal level if it was decided that hey, you know, we 13 don't really like who we elected for Congress and it 14 says that we have to elect them every two years, but why 15 can't we elect them each year as well? It's the same 16 concept. It's the exact same thing. It's written 17 specifically this way. 18 The process was followed. It went to the 19 legislature. They wrote up a plan. It didn't get 20 passed. It went to the board. It ended up going to the 21 courts. The whole thing has been done the way it's 22 supposed to be done. The argument by Representative or 23 Congressman Culberson that the legislature is the final 24 authority on this, while that is true originally or they 25 have original jurisdiction, they have essentially given

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Page 360 1 up their jurisdiction by not drafting a plan, and that's 2 where we're at. 3 I don't see the point of this hearing, I 4 don't see the point of us wasting money, I don't see the 5 point of calling a special session. I mean, why are we 6 here? Where are we here? Today, how many people were 7 for this plan? How many people wanted redistricting? 8 It's not a matter of we want more representatives of 9 this race or this color or this party or whatever. It 10 doesn't matter. There shouldn't be redistricting. You 11 should just pass what we already have, leave it alone, 12 and just let us go home. And that's it. 13 (Applause) 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 15 questions? Thank you. 16 I just wanted to tell you it's now 7:00 17 o'clock; and if everyone takes five minutes, that's only 18 12 more people, so I would ask that you be -- if you'll 19 come up and just say what's really important that has 20 not been stated so we can try to get through as many 21 more as possible. 22 David Thrall, is Mr. Thrall here? He's 23 against redistricting. Mr. Morris Overstreet I know was 24 here earlier, he left; he is neutral. Linda George 25 Smith? Your name and who you're with, please. Thank

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Page 361 1 you. 2 MS. SMITH: Good evening, Madam Chair and 3 members of the committee. My name is Linda Smith, and 4 I've been a public school educator for 32 years and a 5 51-year resident of the City of West University Place, 6 and I am speaking for myself today. 7 I am a very proud American who loves my 8 country; most of all, our Constitution. I cherish my 9 right to vote and to exercise my freedom to organize 10 others to vote for the candidate of our choice as I was 11 trained to do by the great Democrat, Billy Carr. Our 12 district has many Republicans, Democrats and 13 Independents. 14 I am proud to say that in the last 15 Congressional election we jointly elected Congressman 16 Chris Bell. Congressman Bell is doing an excellent job 17 representing us in Congress. No individual or group has 18 the right to overturn the will of the people. It is the 19 will of the people of the 25th Congressional District to 20 keep the 25th as it was legally drawn and approved in 21 2001. The current lines represent a district with 22 common interests and goals of the people living there, 23 and it is a district which follows the guidelines of the 24 1965 and 1968 Voting Rights Act. 25 I am asking the Chair and members of the

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Page 362 1 committee to recommend the removal of the Congressional 2 redistricting plan from the agenda of the special 3 session of the Texas Legislature to begin on June 30th, 4 2003, and save the people's time and money. Thank you. 5 (Applause) 6 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 7 Ms. Smith. Any questions, members? 8 Zanetta Bernie? Ms. Bernie is against 9 Congressional redistricting. Bill D-R-E-N-N-E-N, 10 Drennen? He is for Congressional redistricting. 11 Marcario Ramirez, against Congressional redistricting. 12 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Not today. No, I've 13 got another name today. 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay. Joseph 15 Cohen, Mr. Cohen, against Congressional redistricting. 16 Karen Loper, against Congressional redistricting. Julie 17 Lugsby, against Congressional redistricting. Kevin 18 Hoffman, against Congressional redistricting. Michael 19 Fetland, against Congressional redistricting. Thomas, 20 and I believe it's Z-A-M-P-I-E-R-I, against 21 Congressional redistricting. 22 Phyllis Singer, she's already testified. 23 Bernardo Salas, against Congressional redistricting. 24 Dr. Luckett Johnson, against Congressional 25 redistricting. Sylvia Perez Joiner, against

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Page 363 1 Congressional redistricting. Jamie M. Garcia, Jamie? 2 And as we're waiting, Lucille McCaskey, 3 Mary Ellen Brennan, Bonnie Ross, Yolanda Birdwell, Lee 4 Medley. Linda George Smith has already testified. 5 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Madam Chair, Bonnie 6 Ross left this morning and attached her written 7 testimony to another copy. It's already been attached. 8 And Yolanda Birdwell has already testified. 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay. Thank you 10 very much. Ms. Garcia? 11 MS. GARCIA: My name is Janie M. Garcia. 12 I am from Galveston County and I'm against the 13 redistricting plan. And I'm proud to say that I'm in 14 District No. 9, which I'd like to remain. Since we've 15 decided not to abide by the Constitution, I believe -- 16 I'm not going repeat everything that everybody has said. 17 I believe everybody has heard that we the 18 people have spoken, and we are asking you, as we elected 19 you to do, to represent us, to speak for us against this 20 redistricting plan. We're asking you to listen today or 21 hear us tomorrow. Thank you. 22 (Applause) 23 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, 24 Ms. Garcia. Any questions? Lucille McGaskey, against 25 Congressional redistricting. Mary Ellen Brennan,

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Page 364 1 against Congressional redistricting. Lee Medley? 2 Mr. Medley, if you will come and tell us 3 who you're with and state your name, please. 4 MR. MEDLEY: All right. I'm speaking for 5 myself and for PACE 41, it's a labor union. We have 6 about 4,000 brothers and sisters in the Galveston and 7 Harris County area. 8 What I have to say today is, as a great 9 man once said, it's the economy, stupid. We have a 10 crisis in Texas, and it's losing jobs. It's 11 manufacturing jobs. We represent people at B.P., in the 12 refineries, chemical plants, the paper mills. When you 13 shut down a paper mill like happened in Sheldon, Texas, 14 recently, you don't only hurt those people working 15 there. You hurt the hairdressers, the people selling 16 cars, everywhere. 17 So here we are today talking about 18 redistricting when we have people losing their health 19 insurance, losing good jobs that had benefits, benefits 20 that until recently could send a kid to college until 21 the governor and the Republican legislature took the lid 22 off tuition. 23 We have built a relationship with 24 Congressman Lampson, Congressman Green, Congresswoman 25 Sheila Jackson Lee, and now Chris Bell. They understand

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Page 365 1 a lot of the issues around chemical plants, refineries, 2 that sort of thing. They know what we're talking about 3 when we go to them with issues about OSHA and health and 4 safety, homeland security, and that's the sort of things 5 that hit us every day. Our members face higher 6 homeowners insurance premiums -- wait, or did y'all fix 7 that? 8 (Laughter) 9 MR. MEDLEY: -- higher medical costs, and 10 job loss. I'm going to leave it there with my job for 11 the union. 12 I want to say something personally. Nick 13 Lampson is my Congressman, and I'm proud of that fact. 14 So that the court reporter gets it: Nick 15 Lampson is my Congressman, and I am proud of that fact. 16 (Applause) 17 MR. MEDLEY: My wife is a 17-year teacher 18 in the State of Texas. She was elected teacher of the 19 year in our district this year. She was rewarded by 20 having money taken from her. 21 I have three kids in school. Do 22 something about the school financing. We're wasting 23 time. This is morally corrupt and ethically wrong. 24 You're here on the backs of uninsured kids, the elderly 25 and disabled, and kids that need good schools. And

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Page 366 1 that's all I've got to say. 2 (Cheering and applause) 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 4 questions? Sam J. Munn, M-U-N-N, Sam J. Munn? 5 And while he's coming up, Estella 6 Jefferson, Darrell Durham, Connie Clark, Pat Stone, 7 Robert Schwartz, Venturo Ramirez, John -- and I believe 8 it's C-O-B-A-R-R -- 9 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Yes, I'm here. 10 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay, John, if 11 you'll be ready. If you'll state your name and who 12 you're with, please, for the record. 13 MR. MUNN: Madam Chairman, distinguished 14 members of the committee, Congressman Sheila Jackson 15 Lee, glad she's still here, Congressman, my name is Sam 16 Munn. I represent the Galveston County AFL-CIO, which 17 is 11,000 members strong. You just heard one of my 18 members speak. He did a hell of a good job. Thank you, 19 Lee. 20 (Applause) 21 MR. MUNN: We have heard a whole lot of 22 rhetoric, and I have some notes here that I might go 23 through, I might not. But I just want to respectfully 24 submit to this committee that this whole thing is really 25 not about redistricting. It's about power. Strictly

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Page 367 1 about power. 2 We heard complaints from people around 3 here talking about, well, it's the court and the Supreme 4 Court, they're the ones that put us here, you know, and 5 we've got to go back and redo it because the court 6 shouldn't do it. Well, by God, I think we ought to go 7 back and redo the presidential election, because we 8 didn't do it! 9 (Cheering and applause) 10 MR. MUNN: The court did that. If the 11 court could do that and we can live with it, the court 12 can do the redistricting and we can live with that. 13 That's what we need to do. We need to take care of it 14 here. 15 We are spending -- I think one of the 16 numbers I heard was $1.7 million or something on 17 redistricting. By the time we go through the court 18 process, $7 to 9 million. We've got a budget here that 19 is just flat not worth the paper it's written on. It is 20 flat not worth the paper it's written on. 21 Everybody in this room -- everybody in 22 this room, including y'all, are going to have higher 23 fees. Don't call them taxes; they're fees. They're 24 going to suffer them. Just what it costs now, just the 25 difference -- and it's already in effect, by the way --

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Page 368 1 for Texans to register their motor vehicles is going to 2 raise over a million dollars a year more in fees. These 3 are fees everybody pays. Fees cost people on the low 4 end of the scale more than they cost people on the top 5 end of the scale because of just plain percentage 6 numbers. 7 (Applause) 8 MR. MUNN: I'm going to cut this short 9 because we need a little brevity here timewise. I 10 implore you to take back to the Texas House the message 11 that the vast majority -- all but about six, so far -- 12 of all the speakers that have come here have said they 13 don't want redistricting, they want to keep the 14 districts we've got; in 10 years, we can do it again. 15 That's when we're supposed to do it. 16 If the governor would have done it last 17 time with a special session, we wouldn't be here today. 18 But he didn't want to do it in 2001. He wanted to let 19 that slide. He let it slide, the federal court ruled, 20 we're here, let's go on with it. Thank you. 21 (Applause) 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 23 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 24 Estella Jefferson, against Congressional 25 redistricting. Darrell Durham, against Congressional

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Page 369 1 redistricting. Connie Clark? 2 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Madam Chair, Connie 3 Clark left and would like you to read her opinion into 4 the record. 5 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Okay. Connie Clark 6 is against redistricting. Pat Stone? 7 Mr. Stone, if you'll just state your name 8 and who you're with for the record, please. 9 MR. STONE: Yes. My name is Pat Stone. 10 I'm here to represent myself as a senior citizen. I 11 retired from IBEW after 46 years. I'm a senior citizen. 12 I live and vote in Galveston County, Precinct 227. I'm 13 against redistricting. 14 I have a very good Congressman in Nick 15 Lampson in the 9th District. He visits with the 16 seniors, the seniors groups, and votes on our behalf. I 17 can only go by past performances, but I would either 18 have Tom DeLay or if we redistrict, and they 19 both have bad records for seniors. 20 Also, redistricting costs about overall 21 about $7 million. The state doesn't have it, because 22 our state leaders said we were out of funds and passed 23 House Bill -- H.B. 1, revision 942 last -- earlier this 24 month, cutting funding for community care for the 25 elderly and disabled by 292 million. Home healthcare

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Page 370 1 will cut about 100,000 senior Texans. I oppose any 2 attempt to redistrict. 3 Earlier, someone mentioned that the 51 4 Democrats that went to Oklahoma for four days, they were 5 complaining about them. How about Tom DeLay? He was 6 down here for 45 days. He was AWOL from Washington, 7 D.C. I wish he would have gone to Oklahoma and took his 8 map with him. 9 (Laughter) 10 MR. STONE: That's all I have. 11 (Applause) 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, sir. 13 Members, any questions? Thank you for your testimony. 14 Robert Schwartz, against Congressional 15 redistricting. Venturo Ramirez, against Congressional 16 redistricting. John -- I'm going to have you pronounce 17 it for me. 18 MR. COBARRUVIAS: Cobarruvias. Thank 19 you, Madam Speaker. My name is John Cobarruvias. I'm 20 speaking for myself. I'm the vice president of the Bay 21 Area League of Democrats down in Clear Lake. 22 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Go get them, John. 23 MR. COBARRUVIAS: Thank you. On the last 24 day of school when my 8-year-old son left the bus, the 25 driver handed him a notice that said the school bus

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Page 371 1 service for next year is cancelled. 2 (Laughter) 3 MR. COBARRUVIAS: This is true. For the 4 upcoming year, on the suggestion of Carole Keeton 5 Rylander Strayhorn. A few months prior to that, the 6 school board decided to eliminate block scheduling, 7 which our students have been using for many years, which 8 has been working very well for our students. Not only 9 that, we lost electives and we lost 80 teachers from it! 10 You know our problems on the city level. 11 Our state financial situation is a beacon 12 of criticism for other states, even Mississippi. We're 13 running our governments on the backs of the poor, the 14 weak, the hungry, the elderly, our schoolchildren, our 15 teachers, while weeks and weeks of debate on 16 and insurance reform resulted in nothing more than 17 welfare for the insurance industry! 18 (Cheering and applause) 19 MR. COBARRUVIAS: On our national level, 20 it is a disaster! Our economy is in the dumps. 21 Unemployment is over 6%. Workers rights, especially for 22 the union members, have been trampled, and the top two 23 officials of the EPA have quit! And we have been in an 24 ill-advised war in Iraq based upon false and exaggerated 25 claims!

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Page 372 1 (Cheering and applause) 2 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: That's right! 3 MR. COBARRUVIAS: Killing men, women, 4 fathers, mothers and daughters, and thousands of Iraqis. 5 Needless to say, we are in one big heap of trouble. 6 While we haven't found weapons of mass destruction, 7 Bin-Laden, Saddam, the anthrax terrorist, and Ken Lay is 8 still running around the state free, our crack Justice 9 Department is working hard for the American people to 10 ensure that public enemy number one, Martha Stewart, is 11 put on ice! 12 (Laughter) 13 MR. COBARRUVIAS: And much like the 14 national level, instead of addressing the needs of the 15 people, the state leadership has taken on their own 16 Martha Stewart, redistricting. 17 (Applause) 18 MR. COBARRUVIAS: This is an absolute 19 outrage. You should be ashamed of yourselves for even 20 considering this. 21 (Cheering and applause) 22 MR. COBARRUVIAS: The Democrats took a 23 procedure that was in the law. The Democrats went and 24 left the state, and I'm glad that they stood up, because 25 they have united us like you have never seen before.

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Page 373 1 (Applause) 2 MR. COBARRUVIAS: You think that you have 3 woken a sleeping giant. We weren't asleep. We were 4 playing possum, and you have fallen into our trap. Let 5 me tell you, folks, your party is responsible for this. 6 You need to have courage. You need to stand up now and 7 stand with us and tell Tom DeLay no! Tell him no 8 because our teachers need a raise. Tell him no because 9 our citizens need healthcare and our fire departments 10 and police need funds. Tell him no because our 11 insurance is still too high. Tell him no because my kid 12 needs a ride to the doggone school! 13 (Applause) 14 MR. COBARRUVIAS: In Spanish, there is a 15 way to say that you need guts, and you do need them. 16 You need to stand up to Tom DeLay. 17 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Yeah, please. 18 MR. COBARRUVIAS: Let me tell you, after 19 9/11, we were asked to stand united as a nation, and we 20 did. But when I stand in support of our president, our 21 country, our flag and our soldiers, I do not expect to 22 be kicked in the back end with the boot of 23 redistricting. That is shameful. 24 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: That's right. 25 MR. COBARRUVIAS: Instead of uniting the

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Page 374 1 citizens of Texas, you have created a divisive 2 atmosphere. Gone are the days of bipartisanship. Gone 3 are the days of reaching across the aisle. Gone are the 4 days of disagreeing but working to compromise. This is 5 not the Texas that I remember. This is not the America 6 I remember. You need to contact Tom DeLay, you need to 7 contact Rick Perry, and tell them that this is a bad 8 idea. 9 This is not a sham. This is not a sham. 10 This is a shame. Thank you. 11 (Cheering and applause) 12 (Standing ovation) 13 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you for your 14 testimony. Roberta Kelly Henderson, Ms. Henderson, 15 against Congressional redistricting. Bernice 16 C. Kaufman, against Congressional redistricting. 17 Patricia A. Roberts, against Congressional 18 redistricting. 19 Janet Fisher, Ms. Fisher? And after 20 Ms. Fisher, Devlynn Montgomery, Margie Walker, Vera 21 Petteway, Ella Tyler, Victoria Keller, if you're here, 22 if you will be ready for testimony. 23 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Ella Tyler has left 24 and would like you to read her response into the record. 25 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Go ahead and state

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Page 375 1 your name and who you're with, please, for the record. 2 MS. FISHER: Janet Fisher from Waller 3 County, formerly of Houston, several different 4 Congressional districts. I've seen a lot of old friends 5 today and I've very much enjoyed it, because my fear has 6 not been of Tom DeLay but of apathy; and today I'm 7 convinced that apathy is dead. 8 (Light applause) 9 MS. FISHER: I'm a Democratic precinct 10 judge in Waller County. Maybe I've already said that, 11 but I'm not used to being quiet so long. I didn't know 12 whether I would even have a voice left just from being 13 silent all day long. 14 The first thing I had to do this morning 15 was go to court because I had been caught without a seat 16 belt, and I hope that some of the legislators will 17 realize that short people can't wear set belts because 18 it chokes you across the neck, but they told me to get a 19 doctor's permit and that might be all right. 20 I had thought, well, I won't come today, 21 it might be too exhausting. It has been exhilarating, 22 in spite of the fact that it is tiring. I admire those 23 of you who have stayed. I wanted Rodney Ellis to stay 24 because I know him. In his first election, I was one of 25 the 20 people at his victory party. That was a long

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Page 376 1 time ago. 2 I've worked in the party -- in the 3 campaigns of many of the people here. Some of them know 4 it, some of them don't. I do want to thank you who have 5 stayed. I think you have listened. I hope it has made 6 an impression, because clearly the majority who have 7 come to this hearing are against redistricting, as I am. 8 In Waller County, there is a little village called 9 Monaville. They want to connect Monaville, with its 10 volunteer fire department and pool and dance hall, with 11 Memorial in Houston. If that makes any sense, I don't 12 know how. 13 So just for that one example, I just 14 think you better rethink redistricting, leave it alone, 15 and let's get on with the business that everyone has so 16 eloquently mentioned. Thank you. 17 (Applause) 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you, Janet. 19 Members, any questions? Thank you. Devlynn Montgomery, 20 against Congressional redistricting. Margie Walker, 21 against Congressional redistricting. Vera Petteway, 22 N-Y-O-R-M-O-I, against Congressional redistricting. 23 Ella Tyler, against Congressional redistricting. 24 Victoria S. Keller, against Congressional redistricting. 25 Jack P. Lee, against Congressional redistricting.

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Page 377 1 I. Klein does not wish to testify but is 2 against Congressional redistricting. Vera Klein does 3 not wish to testify but is against Congressional 4 redistricting. Lisa Halford, against Congressional 5 redistricting. Marcus McCoy, against Congressional 6 redistricting. Conrad L. Ary, A-R-Y, against 7 Congressional redistricting. Connie Clark, against 8 Congressional redistricting. Marvin K. Richardson, no 9 testimony, against Congressional redistricting. 10 Thomas Arrington III? Mr. Arrington, if 11 you will come and state your name and who you're with 12 for the record, please. 13 MR. ARRINGTON: Yes. My name is Thomas 14 Arrington III. I'm a current concerned student of Texas 15 Southern University, and I am opposed to redistricting. 16 And I want to say and I'll repeat what other people have 17 said, but put it in a certain context. 18 I don't know if you're familiar, but we 19 have the Office of Civil Rights Chocolate Bayou 20 settlement, which we thought was sacrosanct. You have a 21 three-party agreement with the federal government and 22 the State of Texas and two universities, ours and 23 Prairie View; and you just chopped that money up, and it 24 calls into question the integrity of the process. 25 That's what really concerns us.

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Page 378 1 Since I've been standing here, most 2 people have talked about that this is essentially a 3 farce, and it's appropriate that we're in an educational 4 auditorium to be witness what we're being educated to is 5 what farce is. People who know much better than myself 6 what the end result of this will be have said this is a 7 waste of our time. 8 And I'm genuinely concerned about the 9 message we send worldwide, because we consider ourselves 10 a worldwide institution. We're talking about a 11 multiplicity of idioms at Texas Southern University, a 12 multiplicity of idioms. I'm going to choose one today. 13 It's called the jack move. 14 Now, let's get some examples of the jack 15 move, and many of you know what I mean. Nelson Mandela 16 says you have marginalized one million people based on 17 race, religion and ethnicity so that you can jack the 18 second largest oil reserves in the word. We understand 19 that. We understand that you jacked our OCR agreement; 20 and you say don't mess with Texas? We're going to mess 21 with Texas. 22 Second, this is a jack move, this 23 redistricting. You're just jacking. Where is the 24 integrity in this state? Who sees it? Who can you 25 convey it to? You're spending 7 million. That should

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Page 379 1 be our OCR money. It's about what you chopped up of our 2 money, and it's ironic that you would be at Texas 3 Southern University to let us know about it. 4 (Applause) 5 MR. ARRINGTON: We have a world to be 6 changed. Most people talk about how serious they are, 7 and this came from Shorty in 1981, a carnival worker. 8 He says, "We're swerious." We're "swerious" about 9 checking what you do here. We're "swerious" about 10 letting the world know what you're really about, and 11 that's what's going happen. I will say that's what's 12 going to crawl back up and bite you. It's a guarantee. 13 You cannot continue. 14 We were raised correctly. I was raised 15 in a house where there was right and wrong. I 16 understand the vast majority of you are politicians; I 17 understand that. But I was raised, there ain't no gray 18 area. I'm 52 years old. Some things are right, and 19 some things are wrong. What you're trying to do here is 20 absolutely wrong. 21 (Applause) 22 MR. ARRINGTON: And it's going to come 23 back to bite you. I believe in God. It's going to come 24 back to bite you. It's going to bite you hard, real 25 hard.

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Page 380 1 (Cheering and applause) 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 3 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 4 Anita Serrano, against Congressional 5 redistricting. Flossie M. Lewis, against Congressional 6 redistricting. James A. Warren, against Congressional 7 redistricting. Katherine McNeil, against Congressional 8 redistricting. Crystal Hadnot, against Congressional 9 redistricting. Larry C. Washington Sr., against 10 Congressional redistricting. Frieda G. Washington, 11 against Congressional redistricting. 12 I'm now going to recognize State 13 Representative Jessica Farrar to testify against 14 Congressional redistricting. 15 (Applause) 16 REPRESENTATIVE FARRAR: Thank you, Madam 17 Chair, members of the committee. I'd like to give -- 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Jessica, I'm sorry, 19 just for the record -- 20 REPRESENTATIVE FARRAR: Jessica Farrar, 21 State Rep, District 148. 22 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. 23 REPRESENTATIVE FARRAR: And I'd like to 24 ask the audience to joining me in thanking -- we in 25 Harris County try to collectively gain consensus and

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Page 381 1 work together and we are in this together, and I want to 2 thank my colleagues, Representative Joe Moreno, 3 Representative Dora Olivo, Representative Rick Noriega, 4 Representative Garnet Coleman, Representative Senfronia 5 Thompson, who was here. 6 And, well, I want the people to know that 7 we have been meeting, we have been working and ensuring 8 that all the right points are covered; that even though 9 we're going to lose, we're lining up against the wall to 10 get shot here, but we are not going down without a fight 11 again. 12 (Applause) 13 REPRESENTATIVE FARRAR: And anyway, I 14 just want you to know that we're still in it and we will 15 continue in it, and I can't wait to hear more from you. 16 My job was to kind of bring up the rear 17 and cover some of the points that might have been made 18 that were inaccurate or were not made, so I'll begin 19 with point number one. 20 Congressman Culberson said that the 21 federal court that drew the current map said it was 22 entirely appropriate for the legislature to take up 23 Congressional redistricting and strengthen the political 24 power of Republicans. The courts actually said no such 25 thing. It didn't say anything about the right of the

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Page 382 1 legislature to redraw the court's districts. The 2 court's order said its plan was the Congressional plan 3 for Texas, so Congressman Culberson was dead wrong on 4 that. 5 Secondly, Culberson said that he was 6 tired of the courts running school finance, prisons, 7 et cetera. What he failed to say is that the federal 8 courts stepped in because of the State of Texas had 9 violated the civil rights of its citizens. 10 (Applause) 11 REPRESENTATIVE FARRAR: Point number 12 three, Culberson cited the Republican Steering Committee 13 he's on. He said Texas' power on that committee would 14 be strengthened if redistricting gives Texas more 15 Republicans. That Steering Committee is an 16 administrative arm of the Republican Caucus. It has no 17 official government status. 18 Tom DeLay has forced his will on Governor 19 Perry, Lieutenant Governor Dewhurst, and Speaker 20 Craddick; he could force his will on the Republican 21 Steering Committee to strengthen the Republican Party in 22 his own Steering Committee. 23 The fourth point is to show you how much 24 Congressman Culberson exaggerated in his testimony, he 25 said that Florida gained a seat on the Republican

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Page 383 1 Steering Committee because Florida redistricted to give 2 Florida its fair share of the Congressional seats. 3 In fact, Florida, as a result of the last 4 presidential election, showed is a 50/50 state. The 5 Republican-controlled Florida legislature gerrymandered 6 the Congressional districts in 2001 and gave Republicans 7 control of its 15 seats and gave Democrats only eight. 8 So don't be misled by Mr. Culberson's claim that you 9 have the duty to redistrict in order to help Texas. 10 Texas' minorities in Congress are actually threatened by 11 redrawing the Congressional lines. 12 And then I want to make some statements 13 personally. Republicans have said that they want what's 14 best for Hispanics and African-Americans with this 15 redistricting proposal, but things haven't changed one 16 bit under the Republican Party. If anything has 17 changed, it's that they work more blatantly against us 18 than they ever did before. What we have here is a tidal 19 wave coming of minority population growth and this 20 Republican redistricting power grab to build dikes 21 against the flood. They are afraid of our growth and 22 keep changing the rules in the middle of the game to 23 delay the inevitable and hold on to power, no matter 24 what the population changes. 25 Republicans want to change the rules by

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Page 384 1 redistricting in between decades so that white 2 Republicans can keep a changing society from changing, 3 they think. They want to hold on so they can keep 4 things in their best interests. Much like in South 5 Africa, they want their leaders, like white playboys, to 6 hold all of their cards under their napkins. They don't 7 like to share power, like South Africa. 8 (Cheering and applause) 9 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Right on! 10 REPRESENTATIVE FARRAR: In fact, in the 11 Texas House, where I work, they even want more seats 12 than their majority status. They've got 88 right now of 13 150. Well, they want to win over 100 seats in the next 14 election so that we, your representatives, cannot 15 represent you. 16 The most basic tool any community has is 17 its vote. According to all census data, we're told that 18 we're looking up at an avalanche of new minority voters 19 as each day progresses; so they want to pack minorities 20 into segregated Congressional districts and crack 21 minorities into fractions whose votes can't possibly 22 count on election day. 23 It's interesting to me that Republicans 24 say they want to help minorities with this redistricting 25 plan, but in reality their plan is to draw districts

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Page 385 1 they know will surely be struck down in court. And do 2 you know why these districts will be struck down in 3 court and how the Republicans know this? Because it's 4 Republicans who sued our own 18th and 19th Districts on 5 the basis of racial gerrymandering last decade. 6 Now they purposely draw the same kind of 7 districts, so it's suspicious that in all other times 8 Republicans try for compact districts except when it 9 comes to us, and except had it comes to dealing with us. 10 This plan does nothing good for 11 Hispanics. Despite our record growth, the Republicans 12 aren't offering Hispanics another election opportunity. 13 There's been record growth, and everybody knows a lot of 14 the growth has been in the suburbs; but guess what, 15 nearly 40% of it is Hispanic. They just don't live in 16 my area anymore. 17 By the way, some of those Hispanics are 18 currently represented in the Texas House by someone who 19 thinks that the idea of providing funding for education 20 and access to healthcare for Hispanics comes from the 21 pit of hell. Those are her words said in public at a 22 hearing in Austin and are part of the public record. 23 In the Valley in South Texas, Republicans 24 are proposing and want to racially gerrymander Hispanics 25 in Laredo with Hispanics 200 miles away in east Austin.

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Page 386 1 Well, even San Antonio is closer. I don't trust the 2 Republicans to give my community's best interests -- to 3 keep my community's best interests at heart. 4 I just got back from Austin, where I 5 fought them on issue after issue: The driver's license 6 bill, civil rights, repossessive rights, gay rights, the 7 environment, higher college tuition, limiting corporate 8 responsibilities, on and on. Republicans don't like 9 what the census is showing them and they don't like the 10 choices voters made at the polls, so they change the 11 rules by redistricting in between the decade. This is 12 an unprecedented exercise of discretion that will 13 negatively affect voters. 14 Their argument that legislatures should 15 do redistricting is inconsistent with state policy. 16 Under the Texas Constitution, as was read to us before, 17 you can only redistrict Texas House and Senate districts 18 once a decade. That establishes a state policy that 19 dictates against any -- against doing any Congressional 20 redistricting again in mid decade. 21 Friends, I'm afraid that we haven't seen 22 the end of the changing of the rules in the middle of 23 the game. As long as these folks are the offense, the 24 defense and the referees, this game will always be 25 rigged so that we can never catch up. We'll never get

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Page 387 1 to the goal line, no matter how many people are on our 2 team. All it takes is a handful of them and their 3 possession of not only the ball, but the rule book too. 4 Thank you. 5 (Cheering and applause) 6 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 7 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 8 Martha Allen, against Congressional 9 redistricting. Julius Allen, against Congressional 10 redistricting. Rose Kowalski, against Congressional 11 redistricting. John L. Guest, against Congressional 12 redistricting. Sandra Steigerwald, against 13 Congressional redistricting. Angel, I can't read the 14 writing -- I think it's F-R-D-G-A -- against 15 Congressional redistricting. Mary Emily Shultz, against 16 Congressional redistricting. Thomas Gentry -- 17 MAN IN AUDIENCE: I'm here. 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Mr. Gentry, if you 19 will just come and give your name and who you're with. 20 The next affirmation forms are Richard 21 Garcia, Charles K-U, maybe F-F-N-E-R, I can't read the 22 writing, Tonya McWashington, Barbara Cruz. 23 Yes, sir, give your name and who you're 24 with, please, for the record. 25 MR. GENTRY: My name is Thomas Gentry, I

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Page 388 1 go by Tom. I'm here representing myself. I'm a 2 resident of the 25th Congressional District, and I'm 3 quite satisfied with my representation. 4 Most of what I had to say has already 5 been said, so I'll try not to be caught up in all this 6 redundancy. And I'm not a public speaker, so the fact 7 that y'all have got me up here in this type of a 8 situation should speak to how outrageous I think this 9 whole matter is. 10 I do agree with the people about this 11 being a farce, that this is not going to make any 12 difference to anybody, but I wanted to sit here -- and I 13 would have sat here till midnight, if that's what it 14 takes -- to let y'all know, and maybe carry the message 15 back, that this is the type of dedication that I intend 16 to take in the upcoming elections. And working for -- 17 (Applause) 18 MR. GENTRY: -- working for good people 19 to replace you people, because I don't think what you're 20 doing is right. 21 AUDIENCE: Yeah! 22 (Applause) 23 MR. GENTRY: The only point I guess I 24 want to make, and I guess I ought to read some of this 25 because I lost quite a bit of sleep trying to scribble

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Page 389 1 some of this down, is that there was a point made about 2 the fact that the map is not finished yet and so there's 3 at least a possibility of some reasonable plan that 4 might come out of this. 5 Well, I just don't -- I find no comfort 6 in that. And it's not just the expense and the wasted 7 resources that concern me, but I just don't think this 8 legislature has the capacity to come up with a 9 legitimate, fair map. I just don't think it's possible. 10 You know, they passed on it before because they couldn't 11 come up with any kind of a legitimate plan. A pair of 12 plans that were made back in the '90s, it was thrown out 13 by the courts and stuff, so I still don't know why we 14 feel like it's going to be any different this time 15 around. I certainly don't. 16 The majority party in Austin to me has 17 demonstrated its inability to competently govern. It's 18 my belief the way that they were governing is what 19 caused -- they forced the walkout of the Democrats in 20 the last regular session. I mean, that's all they could 21 do. That was the only thing they could do. 22 (Applause) 23 MR. GENTRY: I just want to finish up by 24 just -- again, even though it probably will make no 25 difference, but to urge a stop to this nonsense.

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Page 390 1 Direct, you know, the time, the energy, the resources 2 that is being wasted in this effort toward a 3 legitimate -- you know, towards solving the problems 4 that are real and that really cripple this state. 5 That's all I've got to say. Thank you. 6 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 7 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 8 (Applause) 9 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Richard Garcia? 10 MR. GARCIA: Good evening. I was going 11 to hopefully say good morning, but -- 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: If you'll give your 13 name and who you're with. 14 MR. GARCIA: My name is Richard Garcia. 15 I am against, Madam Chair, board members, fellow 16 Americans, and Fromencio. 17 I'm on the board of the Salvation Army 18 with Representative Talton. I'm in Congressman Kevin 19 Brady's district. Yes, I drove down here from Dallas 20 just to be at this meeting where I was working up there, 21 and I'm of American and Puerto Rican background. Puerto 22 Rico is where we have more soldiers than any state in 23 the union, and 90% of the people vote in every election. 24 Hopefully we'll get that from our blacks and Hispanics 25 in this area, Representative Wilson, who is not here and

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Page 391 1 speaks of African-Americans. 2 We in Puerto Rico don't have racial 3 problems. Our hero is a gentleman named Roberto 4 Clemente, who is black and spoke Spanish. We are one 5 people. It's not about color. I recently ran for 6 comptroller, and the Harris County black community 7 Democrats endorsed me, a white, over a black candidate. 8 I'm sad to say my father passed away five 9 weeks ago. He was here on election night when I didn't 10 win, but that didn't matter because it was about the 11 fight. He was a man of honor; and I said when I was 12 running, I am a man of honor like my father. Hopefully 13 my son will stand in front of you and tell you the same 14 thing. He worked nights for years for Nabisco and made 15 the little cream in the Oreo cookies, and when people 16 say Oreo now it means something else. But anyway, 17 that's his job. 18 He lived on Social Security, which is a 19 Democratic-souled function, and he has had to decide 20 which road was more important when he talked to his 21 doctors because he couldn't afford it. 22 This is a redistricting that's taking 23 away from dealing with serious issues such as education; 24 we're competing globally, folks. Healthcare? We live 25 here in the Medical Center, come on, guys. And taking

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Page 392 1 care of jobs and the economy. Insurance is a big 2 problem, you know why? Because I work in the insurance 3 industry. I know people are getting screwed. You can 4 take that off the record; I want to keep my job. 5 (Laughter) 6 MR. GARCIA: This is an example of 7 weapons of mass deception. In schools -- they had a 8 bunch of teachers talking here, and they'll tell you one 9 thing: If they know there is a bully in class, they 10 control that bully. And you need to control that bully. 11 I won't say who he is, but his initials are -- 12 AUDIENCE: Tom DeLay! 13 MR. GARCIA: It's wrong, it's wrong, it's 14 wrong. Our tomorrows aren't promised to us; ask my 15 father, if you can, but I'll ask him tonight when I talk 16 to him. Rome is burning. Supria, gracias, como, 17 xie-xie, thank you. 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 19 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 20 Charles, and I believe it's 21 K-U-F-F-N-E-R, I cannot read the writing for sure, 22 against Congressional redistricting. Tonya 23 McWashington, against Congressional redistricting. 24 Barbara Cruz, against Congressional redistricting. 25 Robert E. Davis, against Congressional redistricting.

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Page 393 1 Julia Kosakta, K-O-S-A-T-K-A. 2 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Got one! 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Julia, come to the 4 microphone and give us your name and who you're with. 5 MS. KOSATKA: My name is Julia Kosatka. 6 I'm here as a private individual. I'm a constituent of 7 Chris Bell. Pardon me, you also caught me putting 8 myself back together. I've also been here since before 9 8:00 o'clock this morning. 10 Most of what I'd planned to say tonight, 11 hopefully I had planned to say this morning, has already 12 been said and in many ways been said better than I 13 could. Primarily I'm here to speak against the whole 14 process of redistricting the 28th census. As the young 15 man who is a student at the university I work for, 16 U of H, said earlier, he quoted the bits of the Texas 17 Constitution that spoke to what redistricting can be 18 done and to what processes must be undertaken. 19 The current plan that we have is legal, 20 fair, and representative of the people who have been 21 here today and who are out there in the state. You'll 22 notice that the citizens are not the ones who 23 complained. Has anyone known anyone who complained 24 about their representation enough to do this? No. It 25 was Tom DeLay coming in from Washington telling Texas

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Page 394 1 how to run itself. 2 Texas is a state. We have state's 3 rights. One of those rights is the right to redistrict 4 as we choose. One of those rights is the right to run 5 our legislature as we choose, not to take orders from 6 D.C. Yes, we are also a federalist society, and we work 7 together among all the 50 states to do those things that 8 have a common -- that all Americans have a common 9 interest in. 10 Redistricting in Texas is not the 11 province of District of Columbia. Redistricting in 12 Texas is for us to do, and we have done it. We did it 13 two years ago. We will do it again in 2010 or probably 14 2011. We'll do it again in '21 and in '31 and in '41 15 and in '51. We do not need to be doing it now. 16 As a staff member for 15 years at the 17 University of Houston, one of the things I've seen is 18 that as the state's economy comes and goes, so does our 19 funding. University of Houston is in the process of 20 trying to become a tier one university, a research 21 university. We are so close, we have so much talent, so 22 many students come to that university for the express 23 purpose of working at an up-and-coming research school. 24 Naturally, however, y'all -- this is your 25 doing -- y'all up there in Austin decided to slash our

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Page 395 1 funding, and you slashed it. And with their support, 2 the Republicans' support. You need to maybe start 3 looking at your own jobs because they are now in 4 jeopardy. We will now be remembering your names when 5 the time comes. 6 (Applause) 7 MS. KOSATKA: I grew up in a working 8 class neighborhood up in Aldine. I am first generation 9 college from my family. I put myself through school. 10 14 years it took me to get my bachelor's degree because 11 I had to go part-time and work full-time. Do you 12 realize that with the new tuition rates that are going 13 into effect, because that was the easy way out for the 14 Texas Legislature instead of fixing our economic 15 problems and fixing our budget, it was easier to simply 16 deregulate -- do you realize that I would not be able to 17 get my degree if I were still trying? I lucked into 18 going to grad school. Do you know I can't afford it? 19 I have a nine-year-old daughter. I am a 20 Texas state employee. My insurance has gone up. My 21 copayments have gone up. I have to pick which 22 specialist I go see now because I can't afford to see 23 them both the same month, and yet my health issues are 24 such that if I don't see them on time, I could die. 25 Have y'all ever considered what you're

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Page 396 1 doing to the individuals who live here? 2 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: They don't care. 3 MS. KOSATKA: See, that's the thing. I 4 keep wondering, is it just that you don't see it, or do 5 you just not give a damn? 6 (Cheering and applause) 7 MS. KOSATKA: And I am to the point, 8 until this recent catastrophe began in this state, I've 9 never been an activist. I vote. I've had the privilege 10 of voting for Gene Green in my life, for Sheila Jackson 11 Lee, for Ken Bentsen, and lately for Chris Bell, and I 12 have been very delighted with all of their 13 representation. I never chose where I lived by who my 14 representative was going to be. I guarantee you I will 15 in the future. 16 But in every case, when I moved around 17 the city based on my economic state at the moment, my 18 marriage and then my divorce and everything else that 19 went on in my life, I was moving to the places where I 20 needed to be, and I found representation there that 21 helped; and now you're trying to take that away. 22 I resent that, and trust me, I will do my 23 best to see to it that everyone who has voted for this 24 redistricting bill faces the challenge of their lives 25 when they come back.

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Page 397 1 (Cheering and applause) 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 3 questions? Thank you. 4 Is Mr. Jones here, against Congressional 5 redistricting. Pat Anderson, against Congressional 6 redistricting. Darryl Dodson Jr., against Congressional 7 redistricting. McHail Dale Rogers, against 8 Congressional redistricting. Michael W. Therrion, 9 against Congressional redistricting. Protho Pappas 10 Rene, I believe, against Congressional redistricting. 11 Wanda Davila, against Congressional redistricting. 12 Marlene T. Cook, against Congressional redistricting. 13 Deborah J -- I believe it's J-A-M-B-O-R, against 14 Congressional redistricting. 15 Irma B-R-I-S-C-O, Brisco, did not 16 indicate. Leroy Garrett Jr., against Congressional 17 redistricting. James Williams, against Congressional 18 redistricting. Gwen Snyder, does not wish to speak, 19 against Congressional redistricting. Bill Coleman, 20 against Congressional redistricting. Richard Davis, 21 against Congressional redistricting. Sally Alcorn, 22 against Congressional redistricting. Dr. Adolfo Santos, 23 against Congressional redistricting. 24 I'm not sure, Thompson, C-A -- it's 25 either C-A-T or C-A-R-A -- I'm not sure, can't tell from

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Page 398 1 the handwriting, against Congressional redistricting. 2 Kristi Silva, I believe it's T-H-I-B-A-U-T. Kristi, if 3 you will come down. 4 And while she's coming, is Marilyn 5 K-O-W-A-L-S -- it's either L-A or I-A, I'm not sure. 6 Faith Charania, C-H-A-R-A-N-I-A, Curtis McDonald, 7 Shirley Maze, or Harold Dinkler; if any of you are here, 8 if you'll come down to the front. 9 If you'll go ahead and state your name 10 and who you're with for the record, please. 11 MS. SLIVA-THIBAUT: Yes. My name is 12 Kristi Sliva-Thibaut, and I'm here today representing 13 myself. 14 I'd like to thank you first of all, Madam 15 Chairwoman, for coming all the way from Victoria, Texas. 16 I too am originally from a rural area, the Congressional 17 14th, which is a southern county and it's my hometown. 18 The only reason that I even wanted to testify and say 19 something a little bit different is just to let you know 20 what will happen to you when communities of interest are 21 separated, because my family, it's a family of farmers 22 down there, have recently had redistricting affect their 23 lives when they lost their representative of 35 years, 24 Tom Uher, to redistricting. 25 Sorry, I'm a little nervous. I can't

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Page 399 1 believe I'm nervous. Anyway, what happened to that 2 district is, the district was Matagorda County and the 3 southern end of Brazoria County, which is a rural area, 4 and now what they've done to that area is taken the 5 county of Matagorda County and taken the northern end of 6 Brazoria County, which is now Pearland, which is a very 7 suburban part of Houston, and even just to get to the 8 northern part of that district you actually have to 9 drive through the old district. There's nothing out 10 there. There is no way to get there unless you drive 11 through somebody else's district. 12 That particular representative has only 13 been down there, I think, once. I've talked to several 14 people there in that county, I'm still very, very much 15 involved in that county. Their representative was taken 16 away that they had had for 35 years who served them 17 admirably, and as you know seniority is huge when you 18 want your issues heard, so now they have a freshman 19 representative. 20 And the only thing that I would say is 21 that my brother is a farmer, and he's gotten very 22 involved -- he's also a Republican -- and he's gotten 23 very involved in the industry and , and he -- 24 bless his heart, if you've lived in that district, now 25 they have somebody who won't respond to them, a state

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Page 400 1 representative who won't even allow them to come to her 2 office and she has never been there, doesn't return the 3 phone calls. 4 And then on top of that their Congressman 5 is Congressman Ron Paul, who is your Congressman as 6 well, and he just doesn't want to speak to any farmers 7 because farmers -- his philosophy is that they don't 8 believe in federal programs, he doesn't believe in any 9 federal programs, and he's also very unresponsive, so 10 now this particular community has to go to Congressman 11 Nick Lampson and have actually even gone to Congressman 12 Chris Bell just so they can be heard. 13 So all I would say to you is to really 14 pay attention to what's going on, because you have 15 actually energized this community who has always voted 16 for -- they voted for George Bush overwhelmingly, they 17 also voted for John Sharp, who is a Democrat. But they 18 are paying attention to this. It's not just of the City 19 of Houston, it is rural America that will be paying 20 attention to this. And I appreciate you listening to 21 me. That's all I have to say. 22 I can't believe I'm nervous. I'm usually 23 not this nervous. But thank you very much for coming. 24 And also, I just have one remark to 25 Representative Talton, and that would be that I think

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Page 401 1 it's my understanding that the House -- the House 2 districts were not actually drawn by the legislature, 3 were they? Weren't they drawn by the Legislative 4 Redistricting Board, which consists of all Republicans 5 and one Democrat? Isn't that true? That wasn't 6 actually drawn by the legislature, right? 7 REPRESENTATIVE TALTON: That's correct. 8 MS. SLIVA-THIBAUT: I don't see the 9 fairness in that. I think the courts have done an 10 excellent job, so just pay attention to what's going on, 11 because we as citizens are paying attention as well all 12 across the state. Thank you. 13 (Applause) 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Members, any 15 questions? Thank you for your testimony. 16 Is there anyone else from the group that 17 I read that's in attendance? Murray K-E-I-V or L, I'm 18 not sure, Murray, against Congressional redistricting. 19 Robert Caramillo, Jr., for Congressional redistricting. 20 Peter -- I believe it's L-A-S-C-E-L-L-E-S, for 21 Congressional redistricting, does not want to testify. 22 Stephen Holmes, against Congressional 23 redistricting. John Michael Gonzales, against 24 Congressional redistricting. Caroline Horton, against 25 Congressional redistricting. Betty Thomas, against

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Page 402 1 Congressional redistricting. Dr. Jack G-O-L-B or T, I 2 can't tell, against Congressional redistricting. Lucy 3 Ann Watson, against Congressional redistricting. Diane 4 Roberts, against Congressional redistricting. Reverend 5 Robert M. Gilmore does not wish to speak, against 6 Congressional redistricting. Myra Davis, does not want 7 to speak, against Congressional redistricting. Della 8 L-A-B-R-I-E does not wish to speak, against 9 Congressional redistricting. Sue Lovell against -- she 10 already spoke. 11 Stogner, I believe it's S-T-O, 12 it's either S-T or S-T-O-G -- 13 (Applause) 14 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Virginia, you're 15 going to be our last witness to testify. 16 WOMAN IN AUDIENCE: Do you take into 17 account all the other ones that are -- 18 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Yes, we will. We 19 will take all of the rest of these. 20 Virginia, if you will give us your name 21 and who you're with. 22 MS. STOGNER: My name is Virginia 23 Stogner. I'm from Precinct 232. I'm here speaking on 24 behalf of myself, even though I belong to a group. 25 I've been here all day, as have many

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Page 403 1 other people been here, to express my opposition towards 2 this redistricting -- I'm nervous as well. 3 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Don't be nervous. 4 Take a breath. 5 MS. STOGNER: There was an opportunity in 6 the 2001 legislature to handle redistricting right after 7 the census. The legislature failed in their leadership 8 to come up with a plan. It went to the commission, they 9 failed to come up with a plan, so then it went over to 10 the courts. So there was an opportunity in 2001 to 11 address this. It's time -- it's not time to address it 12 again. We'll address it in eight years after the next 13 census. 14 Many of us are upset that taxpayers' 15 dollars are being wasted, so I don't want to be 16 redundant with some of the other testimony presented 17 today. But I lived in Sharpstown in the 2000 18 Congressional elections. I was represented by District 19 22 at the time. And then in 2002, I got a new 20 Congressional District and I got in Chris Bell's 21 district. I was quite happy about that because I felt 22 like I was finally getting representation, moving from 23 Tom DeLay to Chris Bell. 24 But the point is, we shouldn't have to 25 keep changing Congressmen every two years if somebody

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Page 404 1 decides they don't like how the lines are drawn. We are 2 concerned, too, that just because the Republicans are a 3 minority in the Texas delegation, it does not mean they 4 have protection under the 1964 Civil Rights Act. 5 They're not a protected minority. 6 (Laughter) 7 MS. STOGNER: Minorities are protected 8 anyway, and some of the minorities that feel like 9 they're going to gain an additional seat through these 10 new plans have it all wrong. Just because Rick Noriega 11 happens to be male, or Garnet Coleman or Ron Wilson, 12 there are many women in this room who feel like they 13 represent women's reproductive health issues much better 14 than some women legislators who are in this room today, 15 including my representative, Martha Wong. So just 16 because Sheila Jackson Lee happens to be heterosexual 17 doesn't mean she can't represent gay and lesbian needs 18 in the Montrose community of interest in her district. 19 So we've got to look at the big picture 20 here, and I hope you guys are looking at the big picture 21 as well. Is this Groundhog Day? Didn't we already have 22 redistricting two years ago? How many times do we have 23 to keep revisiting this? Are we going to revisit it 24 again, as Representative Noriega said, when we finally 25 get a plan that we can look at? We don't need to keep

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Page 405 1 rehashing this over and over and over again. 2 The other thing I want to comment on is 3 that the Republicans finally have control of the Texas 4 Legislature, and we understand that there is a learning 5 curve; but they didn't even present a budget that was 6 balanced, the first time in our history they haven't 7 been able to certify a budget. 8 So I think the state legislators need to 9 go home to their districts, take a remedial math course 10 at their junior college so they can come back to Austin 11 and learn how to do a balanced budget. Those are the 12 kind of issues that Texans want addressed. 13 We're seeing tuition go up. 170,000 14 children are losing health insurance under CHIP. You 15 guys have bigger fish to try. This is insulting. This 16 is a waste of our money, not only directly, but many of 17 us took off from work to be here, so it's costing us 18 indirectly in many ways as well. 19 It's also insulting that so many of the 20 other committee members have left, so we do thank the 21 committee members that are still here, we thank you for 22 staying and listening to what we had. Maybe we need to 23 put out the search for Ron Wilson's orange Ferrari. 24 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Get homeland security. 25 MAN IN AUDIENCE: It's a Lamborghini.

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Page 406 1 MS. STOGNER: Lamborghini, I'm sorry. 2 But even though I had no idea what time the committee 3 meeting was supposed to be over, it's my understanding 4 this hearing was supposed to last till 8:00 o'clock, so 5 we've got committee members that didn't even take the 6 time to sit here and listen to all of us because many of 7 us had things that we wanted to say, and many people are 8 still not going to have an opportunity to speak, and I 9 am sorry for that. 10 But I am thankful to have the opportunity 11 to speak myself and hope that -- it's not just Democrats 12 who oppose this plan. 43 out of the 47 editorial boards 13 throughout the state are opposed to redistricting. It's 14 not just Democrats that oppose this. 15 (Applause) 16 MS. STOGNER: The public and newspapers 17 thought this state have spoken loud and clear that this 18 is a waste of time. We're going to have to revisit this 19 anyway eight years from now. We'll get probably at 20 least one, two, maybe three new seats in the census. So 21 we know we will revisit this issue in less than 10 22 years. 23 It is a very divisive, very destructive 24 issue. There is a reason we only deal with this every 25 10 years, and we should only deal with this every 10

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Page 407 1 years unless we are under some sort of court order to 2 redraw the lines. 3 So please take this message back to 4 Austin when you go Monday morning, that we don't want 5 this to happen. It's senseless, and I think we've all 6 spoken loud and clear. The governor failed to exert 7 leadership two years ago when he had an opportunity on 8 this commission or in the legislature. 9 You guys didn't say at the beginning of 10 this session that you wanted to revisit redistricting. 11 It was thrown out in the middle of the process, in the 12 middle of the session. So I applaud our legislators 13 that fled to Ardmore, because they did what they had to 14 do. Many of us are very proud of them. We want 15 representation, we want a fair process. 16 The League of Women Voters, they have 17 done a lot of analysis on a very fair way to have a 18 commission, where people like Mr. Pate and others for 19 the community have plans. It's a deliberative process. 20 This is not a deliberative process, not 21 with the subcommittee split up all over the place. It's 22 not good for Texas. 23 (Applause) 24 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: We appreciate your 25 testimony, thank you very much.

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Page 408 1 We have one more person who the Chair is 2 going to recognize, Representative Rick Noriega to -- 3 (Cheering and applause) 4 (Standing ovation) 5 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Thank you. 6 Thank y'all. First, I'd like to, Madam Chair, thank you 7 for your indulgence, and first I would like to thank 8 everyone who has stayed here all day and who came and 9 gave of their Saturday to be here at this hearing. And 10 Madam Chair, I want to thank you for your indulgence. 11 You always conduct all of your meetings with such grace 12 and dignity, and I just want to personally thank you 13 from the Houston delegation, the Harris County 14 delegation, for your professionalism in how you do that; 15 and my friend, Robert Talton, for having stayed here all 16 day as well, the committee clerks and the court reporter 17 and everyone, and Dwight Boykins and TSU and everyone, 18 it's a hard job. 19 (Applause) 20 REPRESENTATIVE NORIEGA: Madam Chairman, 21 I won't belabor all the points that have been made. I 22 think that they've been stated in an incredibly eloquent 23 fashion. I would just want to hit the key points again, 24 namely that we have a plan that is constitutional, it's 25 passed muster with the Justice Department.

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Page 409 1 In that plan, the court recognized that 2 there were at least 20 Republican seats already drawn; 3 however, the people of Texas in certain districts have 4 chosen their representative differently. This effort in 5 effect would steal away those voters' choice of what 6 they decided, who they wanted as a representative. 7 This process is unprecedented. We've 8 belabored that point as well. And really more than 9 anything else, Madam Chair, we as the Texas Legislature 10 in this unprecedented thing, I want to appeal to my 11 colleagues as members of the Texas House of 12 Representatives of what we're embarking on as it means 13 in Texas history, and where this is going to put us in 14 10 years. 15 Now, I know your district, how it's drawn 16 in Victoria and Robert's in Pasadena, 40% Hispanics in 17 Pasadena right now. I'm well aware of how we -- we all 18 are aware, and Dr. Murdock's predictions of what we're 19 doing right now as a matter of policy and eating our 20 corn seed. 21 And I have to share with you that I want 22 to appeal to my colleagues as we go Monday of what 23 choices that we have. We do have a choice to say no. 24 We do have a choice to say, in the best interests of the 25 future of the State of Texas, this is not the right

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Page 410 1 course of action. We do have that. We can do that. 2 And I just think that the real challenge for everyone 3 is -- the easy thing, I believe, is probably just, you 4 know, to follow the crowd at times. 5 I think the real challenge in the face of 6 the storm is to stand up sometimes, and I would just 7 appeal to my colleagues who I know in the Texas House of 8 Representatives -- the Texas House of Representatives, 9 where the eyes of not just Texas but the nation are upon 10 us and what course we do and what we don't do, because 11 let me tell you, that worm turns. And there will be 12 another day, and we don't want to set the precedents. 13 We don't want to take that tack or that 14 course as a matter of our history in the state, because 15 we want to be able to show the character of our state 16 and what we're about as members of the Texas 17 Legislature. 18 And so I just want to appeal to my 19 colleagues. I would want to say that I think that it is 20 incumbent -- you have, Madam Chair, probably another 21 couple hundred folks that didn't get to perhaps testify. 22 A new product is going to come out, I think it's going 23 to be important. Obviously those that were in 24 attendance today, it was important to them that they 25 comment on what the product might be. It's very

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Page 411 1 important to this region, obviously, so I would hope 2 that the committee would consider that. 3 I think it's unfortunate too that y'all 4 two are the sole survivors of this subcommittee, that 5 the entire committee, along not with the senators, were 6 able to witness the voice of the people. As Barbara 7 Jordan used to say, you know, the trilogy of the 8 Constitution is always misstated where it says "We the 9 People," and it should have been "We the PEOPLE," the 10 accent should have been on the "people" because the 11 people is the government and that's who we are and we 12 have to be responsive to these folks. 13 And I would just hope that we would carry 14 that message forward, that we do need to come back to 15 Houston as it applies to a new particular product that's 16 going to be there. We owe that, at the very least, to 17 the folks, and I hate that we even have to go back. 18 I mean, Robert needs to go make money as 19 a lawyer and you've got to go back with your family and 20 your grandkids and I need to go back and try to be a 21 Little League coach and do those kinds of things. 22 And so that's the business, not just with 23 our families but the more important business with the 24 State of Texas I would hope that we would consider. And 25 we have the opportunity to bring some reason and

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Page 412 1 rationale. Each of us that have knocked doors in our 2 districts as it applies to the major issues of our 3 state, I've never heard anyone say, "And you know what, 4 Rick? We really need to redistrict. That is one of the 5 most important priorities of this state." And I would 6 think that we as Texans would stand up and be able to 7 say, "Hey, I'm sorry, Mr. So-and-so, but that's really 8 not a priority of the State of Texas or of Texas." 9 I understand the politics of it. Maybe 10 just in some districts some better campaigns need to be 11 run. Maybe that's what needs to occur, because the 12 districts -- the plan that we have that's a legal plan 13 certainly allows for that. 14 So, members, I would just appeal to you. 15 I want to thank you for being here in Houston just 16 across the freeway from my district, in this great 17 institution of Texas Southern University. But Madam 18 Chair, I certainly hope that, and Representative Talton, 19 y'all take the message back when we get back. 20 I'm certainly going to be extremely 21 vocal. If I'm going to have to spend my summer days up 22 there, you can guarantee I'm going to be involved in the 23 process in a very, very vocal way. 24 So I want to thank you again, and I hope 25 that you'll take back the message of the people of

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Page 413 1 Harris County and surrounding counties. Thank you. 2 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Thank you. Thank 3 you, Representative Noriega. 4 (Applause) 5 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Is there any way to 6 have a show of hands of those that haven't spoken and 7 give them 15 or 20 seconds apiece, just a line-up -- 8 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Our court reporter, 9 I mean, she has been here all day. 10 THE REPORTER: I can keep going if you 11 give me a break. 12 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: Let me tell you 13 what you can do, and I have the cards to give to you. 14 If you will give us your written testimony, it will be 15 entered into the record. And really written testimony 16 will say exactly what you want to say, and I will give 17 you an e-mail and also an address to get your written 18 testimony to us. 19 MAN IN AUDIENCE: Thank you, ma'am. 20 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: But this is how 21 many more we have (demonstrating) 22 MAN IN AUDIENCE: I understand. 23 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: I do want to 24 thank -- Dwight, thank you so much for Texas Southern's 25 and your hospitality. Everyone has been so gracious and

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Page 414 1 so nice. And to our fabulous court reporter, thank you 2 so much for being here all day. 3 (Applause) 4 CHAIRWOMAN MORRISON: And thank you all 5 for enduring the whole day with us. And if you want a 6 card with the address on it -- if you have any 7 testimony, give it to D over here. He's taking all the 8 written testimony. 9 (Meeting adjourned at 8:11 p.m.) 10 11 12 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 148 13 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 291 14 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 419 15 16 INDEX OF SPEAKERS IN MORNING PROCEEDINGS: 17 Dwight Boykins 3 18 Representative Phil King 5 19 Representative Gene Green 9 20 Representative Chris Bell 9 21 Representative Sheila Jackson Lee 10 22 Representative Sylvester Turner 21 23 Representative Rick Noriega 21 24 Representative Jessica Farrar 22 25 Representative Martha Wong 22

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Page 415 1 Representative Joe Deshotel 22 2 Representative Garnet Coleman 32 3 Representative Dora Olivo 42 4 representative Vilma Luna 43 5 Howard J. Middleton 43 6 Councilwoman Ada Edwards 45 7 Yolanda Garza Birdwell 56 8 Ernest Wilkerson 58 9 James Rodriguez 61 10 Maureen Jouett 64 11 James Yarbrough 68 12 Stephen Holmes 71 13 Richard Young 73 14 Johnny Mata 82 15 Sylvia Brooks 88 16 Councilmember Annise Parker 106 17 Pat Gandy 107 18 Tony Buzbee 112 19 Ruben Davis 116 20 Ira Leichtman 118 21 Judy Hollinger 122 22 Scot Fahey 127 23 John "Mickey" Breaux 131 24 Sims McCutchan 137 25 Thomas Yeager 138

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Page 416 1 Darryl Davis 139 2 Pastor Roy Love 144 3 4 INDEX OF SPEAKERS IN AFTERNOON PROCEEDINGS: 5 Congressman Nick Lampson 151 6 Sue Lovell 158 7 Emyre' Barrios Robinson 162 8 Phyllis Singer 163 9 Maurice Sumner 167 10 Representative Dora Olivo 169 11 Stan Merriman 174 12 Norman Farr 178 13 Jim Bowie 181 14 Patricia Cabrera 185 15 Gilbert Adams 193 16 Barbara Stanley 198 17 Ray Hill 203 18 Court Koenning 207 19 Joseph Jaworski 218 20 Roland Thompson 222 21 Judy Long 225 22 Representative Senfronia Thompson 227 23 Margaret Jordan 240 24 Zeb Alford 243 25 Barnham Terrell 248

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Page 417 1 Deborah Silverman 251 2 Theola Petteway 255 3 Celestino Perez 260 4 Yolanda Coroy 266 5 Sheila Blake 273 6 Congressman John Culberson 276 7 8 INDEX OF SPEAKERS IN EVENING PROCEEDINGS: 9 Bruce Mosier 323 10 Rita Ruth 326 11 Monica Zepeda 331 12 Veronica Leal 333 13 Lynn McBee 335 14 Shawn Leventhal 340 15 Representative Joe Moreno 344 16 A.J. Pate 348 17 Craig Stewart 356 18 Linda Smith 361 19 Janie M. Garcia 363 20 Lee Medley 364 21 Sam Munn 366 22 Pat Stone 369 23 John Cobarruvias 370 24 Janet Fisher 375 25 Thomas Arrington III 377

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Page 418 1 Representative Jessica Farrar 380 2 Thomas Gentry 387 3 Richard Garcia 390 4 Julia Kosatka 393 5 Kristi Sliva-Thibaut 398 6 Virginia Stogner 402 7 Representative Rick Noriega 408 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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Page 419 COUNTY OF HARRIS ) STATE OF TEXAS ) REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION I, SUSAN PERRY MILLER, CSR, RMR, CRR, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify that the foregoing transcription is a true and accurate transcription of my shorthand notes taken in the captioned proceedings. I further certify that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties or attorneys in the action in which these proceedings were taken. Further, I am not financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of the action.

Subscribed and sworn to on this ______day

of ______, ______.

______SUSAN P. MILLER, CSR, RMR, CRR Texas CSR No. 4083 Expiration Date: 12/31/2003

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