• Abstract and Figures
• Public Full-text

The West Wing Weekly 3.08: “The Women of Qumar” Guests: Allison Janney, Fmr UN AmbassaDor Sarah MenDelson, anD Tim BallarD HRISHI: Before we get starteD, we just wanteD to give a heaDs up to any parents out there who may listen to our poDcast with their chilDren. Our Discussion of “The Women of Qumar” gets deeper into the subject of human trafficking and prostitution and at times it gets very serious and very Dark because the realities are very serious anD very Dark. So, you may want to listen to this one on your own first to determine if your children are ready for the entire conversation. Thanks. [Intro Music] JOSH: Hi, frienDs! You’re listening to The West Wing Weekly. I’m Joshua Malina. HRISHI: AnD I’m Hrishikesh Hirway. AnD toDay we’re talking about “The Women of Qumar.” It’s from Season 3, EpisoDe 8. JOSH: It aireD originally on November 28, 2001. The teleplay is by Aaron Sorkin anD the story is by Felicia Wilson, Laura Glasser, and Julia Dahl. The episoDe was DirecteD by Alex Graves. So, story by three women because this is “the women’s issue episoDe.” HRISHI: [laughs Dryly] A ha! Gotta stack the roster. JOSH: Seems like it. HRISHI: This episoDe Deals with C. J. taking on the rest of the staff over an arms deal to Qumar, a country that’s essentially supposeD to be SauDi Arabia. JOSH: Yes. HRISHI: There’s also a parallel, though not intersecting plotline about Josh anD Amy GarDner - played by Mary-Louise Parker who gets introduced for the first time this episode - discussing a treaty anD language arounD prostitution. Toby meets with a veterans group who are upset about a Smithsonian exhibit that deals with Pearl Harbor. And Sam is working on a lawsuit about seatbelts. JOSH: Am I wrong or Do I Detect what was just an extempo-hrynopsis? HRISHI: [laughs] You can tell I haDn’t written that out before hanD, huh? JOSH: No, I’m impresseD by it. [phone rings] I just senseD it was off the top of your heaD. Uh oh. HRISHI: That’s me calling. [phone rings] JOSH: [chuckles] “Stop saying extempo-hrynopsis. You’re embarrassing me!” HRISHI: [laughs] JOSH: Sorry. That’s my DaD. I love you, DaD. Don’t hate me because I’m taking the call later. HRISHI: He’ll be a guest on a future episoDe. JOSH: It’s probably my DaD saying, “Hrishi’s father was on an episoDe. I have a charming anD peculiar laugh as well. Whadda you got for me?” HRISHI: [laughs] So, I suspect, Josh, from the way that you saiD, “This is the women’s issue episode” that you might have some mixed feelings about this one. Maybe they aren’t mixeD. Maybe they’re just negative? JOSH: No, no, no. I think I Do have mixeD feelings. But also I’m sensing a thing... I know we talkeD last episoDe about... We’re doing a Thanksgiving episoDe, let’s aDD two InDians in the lobby. I don’t know. It’s just a feeling like unfortunately themeD episoDes anD trying to get everything done in one. Like, this is the women’s issues episode, this is Native Americans/Thanksgiving episoDe. By the way, let me acknowleDge... SomeboDy wrote in, or a couple people wrote in on the website about our bumping on the two InDians in the lobby being referreD to as such, rather than Native Americans. AnD there is a greater Discussion to be haD there. It’s not, I think, even though “Native American” seems to be in vogue as the PC nomenclature, not everybody feels that way. So, there’s a greater discussion to be had. HRISHI: Yeah. That’s fine. But I feel like my opinion gets to have weight as an InDian about a group of people who were mistakenly called Indians and, you know, when people continue to call them InDians. JOSH: Yes. Fair enough. Here’s what happens sometimes: we express our opinions anD then sometimes I feel like people responD as if I’m saying, “This is the right thing,” rather than “This is what I think,” or “This is what I thought.” HRISHI: Right. JOSH: People get all workeD up. I wasn’t saying, “This is how you must.” I think the way I saiD to you, I saiD, “DiD you bump on the fact that they kept referring to them as InDians rather than Native Americans?” I wasn’t trying to create policy or Dictate how anyboDy else leaDs their lives. [HRISHI laughs] It was just one man anD his response. HRISHI: Well, if it makes you feel any better, Josh, I grant you no authority on any subject. JOSH: Yes, well, you know me. [both laugh] I woulD think people who have listeneD to this many episodes by now would agree. HRISHI: AnD, I take comfort in knowing that you probably feel the same way about me. I’m an expert-- JOSH: [interrupts] No, I’m not sure I Do feel that way. HRISHI: Hey, also, let’s not forget that joining us later in this episoDe... JOSH: [imitates fanfare] Duh-duh-duh-duh! HRISHI: National treasure, Allison Janney. At last! JOSH: Yes! HRISHI: But first, let’s get into this episoDe. JOSH: Let’s. HRISHI: You know, when we talkeD about “Isaac anD Ishmael,” I think we came to some consensus about our ambivalence about that episoDe. I enDeD up liking it a little bit less than I had and you liked it a little bit more than you had. But, I will say - I think that this episoDe annoys me much more than “Isaac anD Ishmael.” There’s something about “Isaac anD Ishmael.” The thing that you dislike--the sort of lack of dramatization anD the diDactic quality of it--I don’t minD it as much because there’s something so clear about the intention, even if it’s not, for you, the most riveting in terms of storytelling because of the way it’s executeD. What is happening is, I think, a little more clear. Here, it’s highly dramatizeD, but it’s also supposeD to be this really didactic message and this actually bothers me a lot more because I feel like it was done in kind of a ham-handed way a lot of times. [West Wing Episode 3.08 excerpt] C.J.: You know, we have an extra 1.5 billion dollars we weren’t counting on. TOBY: What? C.J.: There’s an extra 1.5 billion. In Qumar, when a woman gets raped, she’ll generally get beaten by her husband and sons as a punishment, so at some point we should talk about how to spend the 1.5 billion they’re giving us. [enD excerpt] HRISHI: AnD, also, I felt like there were a lot of parts - and we can get into the details of this - but, I felt like there were a lot of parts where the actual text of the episode got in the way of the purported message that they were trying to deliver. JOSH: Mm-hmm. I think I unDerstanD what you’re getting at. I wrote Down a couple places, “It’s getting mushy. I’m having trouble working my way through.” I mean, and life can be mushy. HRISHI: Mm-hmm. JOSH: But, I think you’re right that it tenDs to be a liability in this episode. HRISHI: Hmm. JOSH: Yeah, I, too, often was kinD of wonDering where they were going with this. There are long, involveD conversations where I felt like viewpoints weren’t particularly clear. HRISHI: Yes, exactly. That being saiD, I Do think the execution of the text was fantastic. Allison Janney won an Emmy because of this episoDe. Mary-Louise Parker was nominated for an Emmy for this season, in part for this episoDe. AnD I think those are highly DeserveD. I think everybody’s really great in it. JOSH: I agree with you. Yeah, the performances are on point, as always. HRISHI: Yeah, but let’s just start with the title: “The Women of Qumar.” JOSH: To me, it was a reD flag. It was sort of a broaD brush warning. BroaD Brush Warning! HRISHI: Mm-hmm. JOSH: I mean what woulD you think - “The Women of America.” What woulD that tell you about the episoDe? HRISHI: Yes! So, that exactly goes to my other feelings about this. “The Women of Qumar.” BroaD brush. One iDentity. What’s worse is it’s a fictional country. There’s something really telling about the fact that it’s a fictional country in the MiDDle East. We have another example of a fictional country in The West Wing. You know, KunDu in Africa. No characters in The West Wing are coming from a fictional Western European country. You know, there’s something telling about that. JOSH: Mm-hmm. Well, look, I think in part we’re Dealing with an episoDe that was written, shot, edited, and produced in the immediate post-9/11 United States. And so, I have a feeling part of his decision was to create--rather than to invite speculation or have people reaDing into whatever real country he chose to set this in or about, he figureD it was an easy way out to sort of create this broaD stroke MiDDle Eastern nation. I agree it was a mistake. HRISHI: I Definitely unDerstanD that part, but, you know, the irony is so thick. It’s an episode about C.J.

Load more

  38

Copy Link