The Big Interview Episode Number: 301 Episode Title: Wynonna Judd Description: Dan Rather sits down with country music super star Wynonna Judd.
ACT ONE
DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
TONIGHT, ON THE BIG INTERVIEW…THE AMAZING LIFE STORY OF A COUNTRY MUSIC SUPERSTAR….THE ONE AND ONLY WYNONNA JUDD...
RATHER
You have been an absolute hit making machine. Do you feel that pressure saying, "Everybody expects me to be a hit machine. I've gotta be a hit machine this time.” Do you feel that pressure?
WYNONNA
Not this time. I did-- and I-- I fired myself as manager of my career.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
SHE CLIMBED TO FAME FROM THE HILLS OF KENTUCKY WITH HER MOTHER NAOMI… THEIR GROUP WAS THE JUDDS AND WHILE THE MUSIC FLOWED…THEIR RELATIONSHIP WAS ANYTHING BUT HARMONIOUS.
RATHER
Where are you in your relationship with your mother now? It's been up and down; where is it now?
WYNONNA
You're the first person I'm gonna say this to. Exclusive Dan Rather moment --because I just-- I won't talk about it. It's too painful.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
SHE’S ABOUT TO HIT THE ROAD AGAIN NOW FOR ANOTHER TOUR BUT SHE HAS PLENTY TO SAY ABOUT HER LIFE, HER RELATIONSHIPS, AND WHAT’S HAPPENED TO THE BUSINESS SHE LOVES...
WYNONNA
I just want to be free. And I want to be able to sing the music that I love. And I'm singing it right now in a way that I never have.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
TONIGHT… ONE BIG SOUND…ONE NAME…WYNONNA! TONIGHT ON THE BIG INTERVIEW.
ACT TWO
Girls Night Out by Wynonna Judd (SONG CLIP)
I've been cooped up all week long I've been workin' my fingers to the bone Well, it's a girl's night out Honey, there ain't no doubt
DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
WYNONNA JUDD’S SONGS TELL THE STORIES OF REAL LIFE IN AMERICA…ANTHEMS FOR WORKING PEOPLE…
Don’t You Throw That Mojo On Me by Wynonna Judd (SONG CLIP)
You’ve got some magic I’ll give you that It just ain’t worth it I ain’t going back no more
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
EMPOWERMENT TO WOMEN.
To Be Loved By You by Wynonna Judd (SONG CLIP)
There’s nothing that I won’t do to be loved by you
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
AND HEARTBREAK.
SHE IS AN AMERICAN ICON WHO ROSE FROM BACK-BREAKING POVERTY TO PINNACLE OF HER PROFESSION…BUT IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A STRUGGLE…NOTHING BUT HER VOICE CAME EASILY.
WYNONNA JUDD WAS BORN IN 1964 IN THE SMALL APPALACHIAN TOWN OF ASHLAND, KENTUCKY. AFTER HER PARENTS DIVORCED, SHE AND HER MOTHER NAOMI, AND HER SISTER ASHLEY, KNOCKED AROUND THE COUNTRY… OFTEN LIVING OFF FOOD STAMPS AND IN HOMES WITHOUT ELECTRICITY OR RUNNING WATER…
Mama He’s Crazy by The Judds (SONG CLIP)
Mama he’s crazy, crazy over me
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
IN THE LATE 1970’S, THEY FINALLY SETTLED DOWN IN NASHVILLE. IT WAS THERE THAT WYNONNA AND HER MOTHER FORMED WHAT WOULD BECOME ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL MUSIC DUOS OF ALL TIME, THE JUDDS. HER SISTER ASHLEY WENT ON TO HOLLYWOOD WHERE SHE BECAME AN A-LIST ACTRESS.
Why Not Me by The Judds (SONG CLIP)
You’ve been searchin’ from here to Singapore
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THE JUDDS HAD 14 NUMBER ONE HITS AND WON 5 GRAMMY AWARDS IN THEIR CAREERS TOGETHER. BUT IN 1991 NAOMI BECAME SERIOUSLY ILL WITH HEPATITIS C AND NEARLY DIED. NAOMI RETIRED FROM THE MUSIC BUSINESS ONLY TO RECOVER AND WATCH WYNONNA LAUNCH OUT ON HER OWN WITH A BANG… MORE CHART TOPPING HITS, AND PLATINUM ALBUMS MADE WYNONNA ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL SOLO ARTISTS OF THE 1990s.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
Rolling Stone wrote of you that you were the greatest female country music singer since Patsy Cline. What did that do to you?
WYNONNA JUDD
Oh, everything.
RATHER
Greatest start since Patsy Cline?
WYNONNA
You know, I-- I have tried my best to go as fast as I can towards that and earn it and have never felt worthy of that. That's one of those-- how in the world can you even go near that statement? It's like trying to record White Christmas after Bing Crosby. I mean, that's just not-- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You know, where we come from.
So to me, I lean more towards-- being a stylist, yes. Being-- unique so that the girl who's tweeting me saying, "I want to be like you," I say to her the very thing that Bonnie Raitt said to me, which is, "There's already a Bonnie Raitt. You be Wynonna." I'm like, "Okay." I was 16, at the time. I'm now telling these girls, "There's already a Wynonna. She's taken. Be who you are."
So I think of myself as now I'm-- I'm-- I'm less pressured about it, yes. When I was in my 20s, I did feel the need to be as great as I could be. Now you have to remember I'm 18 years old. And I'm literally sitting next to Tammy Wynette. And she's talkin' to me about what it was like when she recorded Stand By Your Man. I'm-- I'm listening to her. And she's makin' me somethin' to eat. And I'm goin'-- you know, and Loretta is sending me Christmas cards and inviting me to her farm. And I'm goin', "Wait a minute." You know, we're opening for The Highwaymen and all the greats. You know, George Jones, I'm at his house for Christmas with my kids. And I'm goin', "How did I get here?" You know? And so it's surreal, yet, it was my life. So it's kind of a combination of surreal and "Boy, am I glad this is my movie. This is the best." And whatever I can get away with come-- you know, bring it.
So yeah, I did feel a responsbil-- I mean, think about it. You're standin' there talkin' to Charlie Daniels, who literally, I will never forget him lookin' right into my eyes and saying, "Don't ever look at the empty seats." "Yes, sir." And he was serious. And I still to this day when I see him go, "I'm not lookin' at the empty seats, sir. I'm doin' everything I can to stay positive."
I just was-- a sponge. I was an open book. I was telling them everything. And they were fascinated by me and with mom, because they were family. And yeah, I had a really good upbringing in this business in the '80s. There was still-- you know, we didn't have Facebook. We had face to face. I'm literally walkin' in and seein' Johnny Cash-- all the men are in that room, Merle Haggard, Marty Stuart's over in the corner, closer to my age. We're all just, like-- you know, and it's backstage at the C.M.A. And it's pretty normal to do that. And I'm goin', "Oh my gosh, these are the greatest singers of all time."
RATHER
Well, what was not so normal about that, where-- and you mentioned yourself was traveling with your mother for lo those many years.
WYNONNA
Shock. (LAUGH)
RATHER
But-- I mean this in no name-dropping way. But I recently spoke with Kenny Rogers. And he says-- he said it didn't bother him, but he runs across people-- not every night, but all the time, they say they love what he does. But say, you know, "Where's Dolly? I want you to sing with Dolly Parton."
WYNONNA
I know exactly--
(OVERTALK)
WYNONNA
--we've talked about that.
RATHER
--you get that question of people saying, "Where is Naomi? Is she gonna come out of--"
(OVERTALK)
WYNONNA
I get a lot. I-- I used to get frustrated, because I was striving so hard to be Wynonna Alona. I was trying so hard to be solo and earn the one name-- which by the way came because of a marketing ploy. Everybody thinks, you know, you're the one-name wonder. No, it's because they wanted to keep me from the J's so people would buy the W, you know, Wynonna bin. (LAUGH) It's just funny how life is.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
HER RELATIONSHIP WITH HER MOTHER IS A SUBJECT WYNONNA USUALLY DOESN’T DISCUSS ANYMORE BUT DURING OUR CONVERSATION, SURPRISINGLY AND SUDDENLY, SHE HAD A LOT TO SAY...
RATHER
Where are you in your relationship with your mother now? It's been up and down, round about? Where is it now?
WYNONNA
Very sad. Very sad. To the point where I've-- you're the first person I'm gonna say this to. The exclusive Dan Rather moment-- that's the way I think of this. Because I just-- I won't talk about it. It's too painful. Our last tour was-- devastating. It's like-- though it's not physical, it's-- it's the end. And-- we don't-- we don't talk much. It's gonna take time, I think. And I didn't expect to cry. I think just because I'm a mom right now. And dealing with teenagers-- and paybacks are hell. (LAUGH) I miss her. And yet, she feels-- she have to feel like-- let's put it this way. I don't text her and say, "Hey, I'm in--"
RATHER
This is a Kleenex
WYNONNA
Oh, you are such a gentleman. Everybody, look at this. This is like serious gentleman. She is at home probably wondering where I'm at, what I'm doing. And I think she misses the road. I make up that she is-- struggling with, you know, not being with me. Because we've been together more than we've not. So it's really strange to go about this professionally. She's my mom. And we just don't talk.
RATHER
Why is that?
WYNONNA
I think there is a natural thing that people go through. I don't care for the word "retirement." So I'm not gonna use that word. I will say "transition." I think the transition from going a hundred miles an hour every day. Now think about it. We had co-- she had costume changes. We had major production. You go from being that center of attention, thousands and thousands of fans every night. I mean, we had two meet and greets, they were so big. Too many people. Too much of a good thing. To sitting at home and listening to the silence has to be debilitating at times. And for her, she's so emotional and-- and oh God, she loves a crowd. I think even more than I do sometimes, because I'm very introverted, believe it or not. And I think-- we used to talk a lot about, you know, "Mom, you love this more than I do. I love the music and the people." Like, doing this was more about you as a person. You know, I mean that. And I want to answer the questions that you have, because I think I'll learn something and maybe even about myself. I don't know. I just think it's an opportunity. And the fact that mom doesn't have it; I definitely have survivor's guilt, a feeling like I'm going on without her.
RATHER
But it really did work for a while. It was a magic time when the two of you on stage together worked.
WYNONNA
When we didn't know anything. (LAUGH)
RATHER
Well, when did it stop working and why did it stop working?
WYNONNA
I think there's a real challenge-- I love this interview, 'cause it's very candid. And I'm ready. I don't know if this would have worked for me a couple years ago, honestly. 'Cause I was too busy tryin' to be cool and right. And I just-- I just want to be loved and be real. And I know my kids are gonna watch this and go, "Ah, that's a bunch of crap, Mom," if I don't say it correctly. And I also have two very famous relatives, who will have their own interview, where they'll dispute what I just said. So I have to be careful. And my recovery calls for it. People want me-- want me to be honest. And I want to say what people are thinking. And that is this business can often produce caricatures. You know that. We become a Saturnate-- Saturday Night Live skit.
RATHER
You become a caricature of yourself?
WYNONNA
Yes. Yes you do.
RATHER
Well-- I don't want to dwell on this, but I want to come back to the relationship with your mother and the rest of the family. Correct me if I'm wrong that-- you all live on a farm, one piece of property. But you have separate places on this piece of property. And you seldom, in some cases, don't see each other?
WYNONNA
No.
RATHER
Well, tell me about that. Because that would strike some people as weird.
WYNONNA
It is. All families are weird. And they have their set of circumstances. The only thing I have in common with my sister is a father-- missing and a mother that's both of ours. She and I are very different. We don't-- communicate nor do we spend time together. And that's a long history of being apart. I-- I-- I was away from Ashley at age 18. She was 14. And I think at 14, Ashley became independent of the family. I think out of necessity. You know, kids are gonna do what they do to have their needs met.
RATHER
But--
WYNONNA
And I raised her, actually. So I think there's a lot of work we still have to do about where do we find the sister in all of this, you know? I'm not just the-- she called me Sister Mommy. And I really had a hard time with that. Because I was like, "I don't want to be your mommy. I want to be your sister." But the way life was, I was famous at 18. I wasn't there for her prom. I wasn't there as a sister.
And we just developed-- it's like a marriage that's developed separate lives. We-- have been running really fast. Success is-- a good thing. And it takes you away from the people you love. It just does. You know? I've toured with my mother for 30 years. I've given her as much of my life as any, you know, daughter can. That was a full-time job. (LAUGH) And because of those dynamics, honestly, and this is hard to admit, but it was almost as if I had to pick one out of the two. And at the time, I was so busy, Dan, being reactive. It was hard to be proactive. Now that I'm older, I'm seeing time slip away.
RATHER
And I can hear some people in the audience at least thinking, "Wow, this is a dysfunctional family."
WYNONNA
Very much so.
RATHER
But right with that, I'm reminded that the poet and novelist Mary Karr, once in a radio interview I heard her, somebody say, "Do you only write about dysfunctional families?" And she said, "Every family is dysfunctional--"
WYNONNA
Amen.
RATHER
--in one way or another, to one degree or another. WYNONNA
We've missed out on a lot. I have a lot of tears for the times we've missed out on.
Ashley has her agenda. I have mine. I have two kids. Ashley's, you know, single. And she travels the world. I can't do that like she can. I don't have that, you know? My choice is to be a mom. And I'm at home. And if she's texting me from Scotland, that's been our life. Does that mean that, "Oh, they don't get along and--" we disagree on everything. Can you tell me any sister relationship that has a "You know what? You're right." I don't think so. So you're right. We are dysfunctional. I never knew my father. I found out at 30 the man who I thought was my father is not. There's stuff in there. We've been very honest about it. It's made us who we are today. Broken and blessed.
ACT THREE
DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THIS IS A SIDE OF THE SUPERSTAR LIFESTYLE THAT HER FANS WILL NEVER SEE… PRACTICE… IT’S LESS THAN A WEEK BEFORE WYNONNA AND HER BAND; LED BY HER HUSBAND, CACTUS MOSER, HEAD OUT ON TOUR ACROSS AMERICA. IT’S IMPOSSIBLE TO PRECISELY DESCRIBE THE POWER OF HER RAW PERFORMANCE. BUT AFTER MORE THAN 30 YEARS OF SINGING TO SELLOUT CROWDS AT GIANT MUSIC VENUES ACROSS THE WORLD, WYNONNA IS TRYING SOMETHING DIFFERENT. SHE SAYS SHE WANTS HER AUDIENCE TO CONNECT DEEPLY WITH HER MUSIC...SO SHE’S DECIDED TO BEGIN THE YEAR WITH A TOUR OF SMALLER VENUES...LEAVING ALL THE ELECTRONIC WHISTLES AND BELLS AT HOME. THIS TIME IT WILL BE JUST THE WOMAN, AND HER MUSIC.
RATHER
When you tour you talked about-- a new sound for you. What are you talking about?
WYNONNA JUDD
I'm returning to the well and making my voice the main instrument. I think sometimes we get distracted by too many instruments. We get too much about production. And I'm literally thinking I'm gonna walk out on stage on this tour and just belt out something a cappella, which for me is-- just doesn't happen.
So the sound is-- as my husband called it recently-- just to try to nail it down, is sort of the-- the idea of civil war rock, in that it's civil war based on going back in time and getting down to the nitty gritty instruments of what it was like in the early times, as well as rock. And that's still just has-- you know, umph to it. So it's a combination of traditional and the new.
It's just simple and raw and it makes-- I know this. I was in the studio the other day. I heard the track and I wanted to run really fast. It does something to us, primal. You just hear these instruments and it makes me wanna boogie. Oh my gosh. And it's so awesome to have that at this point in my career.
RATHER
Listen, I know that it-- at least at one time, it was the-- your practice to have a theme for every year, a family theme. As we sit here at the beginning of a new year, do you have a theme for this year?
WYNONNA
I actually want to be credited with the fact that I knew you were gonna ask me this question. Because it is such-- a New Year thing, as well as, you know, words are so powerful. I knew you were gonna ask me. And I have picked out a word. Every year-- most of them come-- start out with "re." You know? "Reestablishing. Re--" mine is "recovery." I'm recovering so many things. I'm recovering some of the things that have been lost along the way.
RATHER
Things that have been lost along the way. What's--
(OVERTALK)
WYNONNA
--people.
RATHER
--been lost along the way?
WYNONNA
A little bit of innocence here and there, you know? We get jaded. We get-- so darn smart. We get-- what is it that I read recently about-- having decided to join Twitter, which has been both a blessing and a burden. Just the recovery of the wonderment of why I got into this business in the first place. And that is to sing. We get bogged down by the business, by the expectation, by the things we read, the pressures. And the expectations are overwhelming, especially right now. But I want to recover from that perfectionism and be, as I said earlier, you know, imperfect, perfectly imperfect, and allow myself to play. And I r-- I want to recover my lost innocence of just waking up and saying, you know, "Good morning, God." Instead of, "Oh God, it's morning. What do I gotta do to be a champion?" 'Cause I was raised to be a champion. I know how to work hard. I just want to recover from all the stuff that we endure in 30 years of being professional.
RATHER
Well, being professional in your work, what are you specifically working on now? You have a new album you're working on. Have you finished it? Are you still in progress working on it?
WYNONNA
I'm working as hard as I've ever worked. I don't know about you. But as I get older, sometimes it feels like I work twice as hard to get half as far on particular days.
RATHER
I know that feeling only too well.
WYNONNA
In my 20s, I took it for granted. And I'll talk a lot about that on stage, about being 20 and literally sharing a dressing room with Tammy Wynette, Loretta Lynn, Dolly Parton, the great-- the legends, the sheroes and heroes that I grew up with. And now that I'm 50, I'm one of them and that younger generation of greatness is now looking up to me. And I'm going, "What does this mean? What's that responsibility? How much of it do I own and how much do I let go?"
And so for me-- I just want to be free. And I want to be able to sing the music that I love. And I'm singing it right now in a way that I never have. And we're making a record live, like they did in the good old days, where you sing it while the band's playing. And it's, again, perfectly imperfect. I think this theme this year is to get away with as much as possible-- and have fun.
RATHER
Well, you-- you talk about feeling the pressure. And one of the things you want to do is feel less pressure and do what you really want to do. But even your record shows-- I'm a believer, you are what your record is, your record in life. Your record shows that you have been an absolute hit making machine. You've had, what, at least 18 number one hits--
WYNONNA
I've lost count.
RATHER
When you go in-- and you're-- you're involved in your work now, do you feel that pressure saying, "Listen-- everybody expects me to be a hit machine. I've gotta be a hit machine this time.” Do you feel that pressure?
WYNONNA
Not this time. I did-- and I-- I fired myself as manager of my career. God's my boss. And-- and it's not about religion. It's about spirituality. I got really tired and exhausted from-- feeling as if I'm the lone female on a Conestoga wagon, you know, crossing the great west. I-- I just can't do that anymore. I've done that. It's really exhausting. And I am relying on my team more. I'm delegating. I'm saying no. That was a huge one for me.
RATHER
By the way, I believe for whatever it may be worth (and I suspect it won't be worth anything) -- (LAUGH)
WYNONNA
Sure it is.
RATHER
--my two favorite songs of yours are Tell Me Why and Like No One Else On Earth. But what I want to know, out of all the songs you've done, what is your own favorite?
WYNONNA
Today it would be Only Love because of my experiences today personally. Depends on what state I'm in and what state I'm in. Honestly, it's like children, you know? I love them 100% uniquely. Today it's Only Love, because the greatest of these is love. And I need it today. Goin' on little sleep. Having traveled, you know, the four states in three days kind of thing. And I'm just-- you know, I didn't spend a lot of time on my hair. I'm in rehearsal mode.
I'll break out the sparkles-- Thursday night, next week. But right now, I'm workin', you know? I'm mama at home workin' with the dogs. And the teenagers. My son comes in last night. And, you know, I'm-- I'm listening to him as a mom. And then today I'm a singer. And tonight I'll be, you know, feeding the animals. And I'm just-- you know, I'm workin' really hard. And I want to be-- I want to be unique. I don't want to necessarily be the best. And there have been times when I've wanted to be the best. And I've wanted to sell more records. And the word-- you know, the term "sell out" is a huge deal to a lot of entertainers. I want to have joy. And you can't have that and everything at the same time, in my experience.
RATHER
Again, I can relate to that. I think almost anybody-- who's been in "public life" quote unquote could relate to it. But I want to go back to Tell Me Why for just a moment and ask you something that's been on my mind and my daughter Robin who loves your music--
WYNONNA
Hey, Robin.
RATHER
--suggested-- a couple of times that I ask you. With that particular song, it seems so personal. It seemed yours. Has anybody ever tried to cover that song?
WYNONNA
Karaoke. (LAUGH) I don't think they have the guts. No, I don't know. That's a really good question. We'll have to google that. I know that-- that's an interesting question, Dan. Because I don't think so. But I don't know for sure. I do know this. When that sound came out-- Tony Brown, I love you dearly, a great producer said "Your voice and your style, you know, is unique." And I went with that. And I wanted that sound that was different than anything going on on the radio at the time. I made a conscious decision to be-- unlike all the other red heads, as well as the other, you know, singers. I wanted to just be myself. And darnit, it worked. And it went number one. And I was very famous for, you know, the week on Billboard. And-- that song still today I-- I'll have a woman come up to me and say, "I put my, you know--" it-- this is a compliment, by the way, in music. "My baby falls asleep to this song." (LAUGH) To me, that's a good thing, 'cause the ay-ya-ya, kids love it. They mimic it. And it's a big song for me. And I do it every night.
Tell Me Why by Wynonna Judd (SOUND CLIP)
I’m walking on a real thin line A fool in love with a fool that never cared Sing it to me now Won’t you tell me why I can’t say goodbye Won’t you tell me why
ACT FOUR
DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
WYNONNA’S LIFE HAS BEEN A ROLLER COASTER OF EXTREMES… FROM ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR DUOS EVER IN THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY TO A RELATIONSHIP WITH HER MOTHER SO DEEPLY WOUNDED IT MAY NEVER HEAL. BESIDES HER DIFFICULT RELATIONSHIP WITH HER MOTHER, SHE’S BEEN DIVORCED TWICE. THEN TWO YEARS AGO, SHE MARRIED CACTUS MOSER, A MAN SHE’S KNOWN FOR 30 YEARS. FINALLY SHE THOUGHT, THE STABILITY AND LOVE THAT SHE CRAVED. BUT SHORTLY AFTER THEIR WEDDING, ANOTHER SLAP OF REALITY. THEY WERE RIDING MOTORCYCLES IN THE HILLS OF SOUTH DAKOTA WHEN CACTUS WAS INVOLVED IN A MAJOR ACCIDENT. IT ALL HAPPENED RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER. HER NEW HUSBAND, DRUMMER IN HER BAND, LAY NEAR DEATH ON THE HIGHWAY. HE SURVIVED, BUT LOST HIS LEFT LEG.
WYNONNA JUDD
I was in two months of honeymoon bliss. I had all my outfits literally in the closet hanging, ready to be worn, you know? The size eight, healthy, workin' out five times a week, life is great. We're the king and queen of the prom. I've known him since I've 20. I trust this man with my life. We're in a band together. We're rockin' on stage. You know, I'm winkin' at him between songs. It's a love affair of all love affairs. It's awesome. It is so beautiful. And storybook. It's like a childhood sweetheart, you know, thing. And then in seconds, I go from, "And the winner is, you know, five-time Grammy Award winning artist formerly known as The Judds" to "Mrs. Moser" begging God for a miracle. And from there, we stayed in hospitals. From there, we went home to a newly renovated house that is set up for physically challenged. That's not my idea of the first year of marriage or even the first ten or 20.
RATHER
It wouldn't be anybody's.
WYNONNA
No. You're supposed to-- I'm literally in the shower. You know when they say, "She-- you know, she's my better half." I won't go that far. But I will tell you I was his other half. And I'm literally-- in the shower, standing there, holding him up. Because he doesn't have a left side. He has no use of his left hand and no leg. And I'm literally looking off like-- you know, we're supposed to do this like when we're 80 or 90. And I'm not really ready for this. You know? We have a band. We have a tour. We have everything in life going for us. And why is this happening? Absolutely. I'll tell you what I didn't do. I didn't have time, actually, for the complaining part. My mother always taught us-- "Get up and move towards your destination. You know, can't die in the poor house." I remember that like yesterday.
I just have a philosophy. It's not even about being, "Oh, Wynonna, you're so strong. And oh this and oh that." It's called necessity. If we didn't get up off our butts, we didn't eat. If we didn't hoe the garden, we didn't have food. It's not like-- such a believer. "I'm so gonna, you know, overcome this." There's no song of strength. There is a begging God to meet me, you know, at the finish line. I'm just tryin' to make it happen to where this man was told he's never gonna play again. And I'm like, I'm mad enough to square off with the devil and say, “Really? Wrong girl, wrong day.”
RATHER
Is it good now or not yet?
WYNONNA
Beyond good. It's actually better. I don't-- and this is really weird. I don't even see the missing leg. He is a stud on the ski slopes in Telluride for four days skiing. He doesn't stop. He doesn't say no. He goes, "It might take me a little longer." But he doesn't say, "Can't do that." He just does it. And it's amazing. I don't know how he does it, but he does. He's one of the most joyful people. It's great at the right time. But (LAUGH) I'm so, you know, emotional and spirit filled sometimes he'll be like, "Just breathe." "Don't tell me to just breathe. You have a better chance of baptizing a cat right now, Cactus." (LAUGH)
RATHER
Well, what a life you've led. What a life (LAUGH) you have led.
WYNONNA
I know.
RATHER
What is the best--
WYNONNA
I know.
RATHER
--thing that's happened to you? What's the single best thing that's happened to you in your adult life?
WYNONNA
My children. They're absolutely bringing me to my knees on a daily basis. They are amazingly challenging. It's just life.
RATHER
What's the worst thing that happened to you?
WYNONNA
Ooh. I've had a lot of losses last year. I was actually really, really glad to see 2014-- whether it was animals or loss of relationships, long-term or-- even death. You know, of some of my dear-- beloved legends like George Jones. Just the passing of people. The end of an era. Realizing that life is really short. I think for me just the word loss, in-- in whatever form. I lost a lot last year.
RATHER
You said relationship. Were you referring to-- your relationship to your mother?
WYNONNA
Somewhat. Not in a sense that it's lost. It's just-- it's in pause. The tour ending was so hard for both of us. It was, like, separating-- us on the same oxygen. It was really painful. It was very--
RATHER
But, you--
WYNONNA
--painful.
RATHER
--mentioned this before, that-- you said that-- you had written and talked but it before, but this last tour with your mother was a nightmare.
WYNONNA
Yes.
RATHER
What-- what made it a nightmare?
WYNONNA
Too much. But it distracted us from what I think God, you know, gives us the gift to do something and if we're not careful, we could really, really-- or is it our gift back to God is just-- I mean for me it was singing. Trying to do a TV show. Trying to do too much around the tour. I wish we could have just gone out on the road, visited with each other on the bus every day like mother and daughter and just had a, you know, cup of coffee and just talk about--
RATHER
But it didn't work out that way?
WYNONNA
No, it didn't. And it became a big production.
RATHER
Was it tumultuous during the tour?
WYNONNA
It was. Very--
RATHER
Did you shout at one another? Explode at one another--?
WYNONNA
No, there was-- no, we had a life coach who would not allow that. But I wanted to pull every hair out of her head. And I'm sure she did me as well, because we were both right-- and you put two very strong alpha females in a room and tell me how that works if there's a disagreement. However, I was born to be respectful and there were-- and I want credit for this. I was the one that would sometimes have to go on her bus. And it made me so mad, Dan, 'cause I'm like, "You know what? I have children. I have a multi-million dollar corporation. I am, you know, 40- something years old and I'm going on this bus like I'm, you know, asking for permission to go to a friend's house or something." I felt so resentful at times because I thought-- but then it dawned on me. She'll always be the mom.
RATHER
And indeed she will.
WYNONNA
Respect.
RATHER
Among men-- there is a belief among some men, and various professors and others have put forth the idea, that no man can hope to be complete-- completely with himself, until his father has passed.
WYNONNA
I've heard that too.
RATHER
Do you or do you not think that applies to women with their mothers?
WYNONNA
Yes. I think their mothers-- I think a relationship carries on even after death. My-- one of my understandings from the women I've talked to is you may be an orphan physically but you're never without your mother. And in my case, I'm, like, so enmeshed with her. I don't think-- I mean I think I'll still pick up the phone and call her. You know what I mean? I'm so conditioned to not make much of a move without her. I mean it literally has to be at times-- I'm-- I'm putting together this show, for instance, today and I'm going with a couple of nights through the Judd songs to decide if I wanna do any of them. And I'm literally in tears. And I'm goin', "Oh my gosh. I'm 50 years old. Does it ever stop or does it get worse as we get older? We become more-- emotional and more sappy and more, you know, like the commercials. We-- I cry at everything when it comes to the Judds or Mom or-- I see somethin' on Twitter and I'm like, "Somebody get me a Kleenex." (LAUGH) You know, it's almost like-- (SIGHING) "Oh, this is exhausting." But-- it is what it is. And you're right, I think-- I still seek her approval. And if I don't get it, it hurts my feelings.
RATHER
You expect her to come back and sing with you on stage?
WYNONNA
No. I think it's too painful to think about that, because then it brings back all the angst of will it happen. I-- you know what, it's gonna have to be a God thing. I mean he is gonna have to-- I've already said, "You're gonna have to appear to me. I'm gonna have to hear some major, major--"
Did you just hear that? Like thunder? I'm gonna have to hear thunder. I'm gonna have to see a vision. And it's gonna had to be, like, on a billboard. (LAUGH)
RATHER
Well, who knows what's ahead.
WYNONNA
Right. Exactly. We don't have a crystal ball.
RATHER
Who can say. Let the record show that you didn't rule out the possibility.
WYNONNA
No. Just the--
RATHER
But you said you--
WYNONNA
--'cause that's arrogant if I did.
RATHER
But you said it would take divine intervention.
WYNONNA
It would. It would have to be-- I mean I make jokes and say stuff like, "Yeah, you know, she and I were gonna get into wrestling and--" I mean I talk about funny stuff just to avoid the question because it's too painful. You have-- you guys have to understand, it's like I literally have these dreams where she dies but I-- and this is so crazy. I've never talked about this, but I'm just gonna throw it out there.
It's to the point where it's in my dreams, for goodness sake. I'm dreaming about her passing and then I'm getting ready for the show. And as I'm stepping off the bus she comes up front dressed and ready to go on stage. And I look at her like, "We just had the funeral." But it's not funny. It's just the way my mind is that she's-- yes, she's this Energizer bunny. Yes, she's, you know, amazing for her age and her career and all that. And I'm trying to live my life too. And the two of us are always gonna be an entity. And yet at what point do I get to have the privilege of being okay on my own without being reeled back in? And it's a really delicate thing because I love her and I adore her. And it's too much.
RATHER
Well, some dream analyzer could probably have a heyday trying to handle that-- that dream.
WYNONNA
Call me. Yeah.
RATHER
You know, you've-- you've referenced-- your belief in God and your relationship with God here a number of times. And you’ve been very public about that-- for all of your life. Including your professional life. Favorite hymn. One favorite hymn.
WYNONNA
(SINGING) Oh Lord my God, when I wander-- I mean I hear that and I go-- and I've sung it at more funerals. I sang it at Tammy's memorial. I sang it at George's. I sang it at Carl Perkins'. I mean it's just one of those songs. And I hear it and I just stop. It's on YouTube. I'm in Italy and I'm singing in this 1600s built, you know, Catholic church. How Great Thou Art. I am just-- there's something about it, when I hear it I just-- my whole being just stops. And I go, "Is the Lord returning?" You know? It's one of those songs. Amazing Grace. I named my daughter Amazing Grace 'cause we almost died. And therefore I'm-- you know, I'm spiritual because-- I-- I tried doing it all on my own and it didn't work. That line about you don't know how much you need God till God is all you have.
RATHER
Now, I had a version of this earlier. I'm gonna come back on it. And we're not being morbid here, but if it-- (LAUGH) if it's your memorial service--
WYNONNA
Okay.
RATHER
--and they're going to play one of your songs, which song--
WYNONNA
One of my songs?
RATHER
Yes. What song would it be?
WYNONNA
I wouldn't allow that, probably. That feels weird. I'm sorry--did I cut you off? I didn't mean to--
RATHER
No, but you don't get to say. Remember, you're gone.
WYNONNA
Oh, yes. See, I'm still tryin' to control that. (LAUGH) That's my problem. You're saying if someone picked a song of mine--
RATHER
Yes.
WYNONNA
--to play what would I pick?
RATHER
If they come to me and say, "Dan, you're gonna have to pick one of Wynonna's songs--"
WYNONNA
To sing or play--
RATHER
Just one. To sing or play.
WYNONNA
I can honestly say no one's ever asked me that. I wanna be funny, 'cause that's usually my first out the-- out the gate. I would have to say Love Can Build A Bridge. Wait, did I just say that out loud? That's a Judd's song. See how enmeshed I am with all that. I'm still there in that-- that little 18-year-old girl going, "Mom, do you think I did a good vocal on that song?"
I would say probably something gospel. One of my more-- spiritual songs rather than something, you know, aggressive and rock chick. I would definitely go for something more tender. And-- well, people who know me know what my heart pieces are. They're the songs that may not have even been number one, but the fans love 'em.
There's a song we did called Guardian Angels, for instance, that the fans still ask for. It's a cult favorite, if you have must have a term. So I don't know. I think it would probably be How Great Thou Art Of Mine because it's just such a universal-- there's no category, you know?
How Great Thou Art Of Mine (SONG CLIP)
ACT FIVE
DAN RATHER
Do you spend much time on Twitter?
WYNONNA JUDD
I do.
RATHER
Sending—
WYNONNA
I do. And I'm--
RATHER
--receiving?
WYNONNA
--I'm really needing to quit, because there's, like, two people right now that-- best line I've heard lately. A third of the people will love you no matter what you do. A third of the people will never love you no matter what you do. And the rest don't care. Right now I'm dealing with the I don't care and I don't like you no matter what you do. (LAUGH) That's a challenge for me, 'cause I want everyone to think I'm, you know, snappy.
So I am definitely finding the toxicity of Twitter. And I said I would do it and everyone's begging me not to, because I'm literally giving this girl advice about how to deal with her drunk sister. That's country music. We are close to our fans.
RATHER
Telling the girl how to deal with her drunk sister?
WYNONNA
Yes. She's a young girl--
RATHER
That's gonna be--
WYNONNA
--she's a young girl. She's in a hotel room. They've come into Nashville 'cause they wanna see the Hall of Fame. And the sister went out and came back wasted and she doesn't know what to do. So she's asking me. And I said, "Well, first of all, I don't give advice. I know what I did was and I was dealing with an addict. I don't know what else to tell you, but here are your rights." And people around me go, "Wynonna, that's not good for you. You are an artist not a therapist." (LAUGH)
RATHER
Well, that sounds like pretty good advice to me. (LAUGH)
WYNONNA
Well, I don't know.
RATHER
Well, why not take that advice?
WYNONNA
I wanna help people, because I was-- I got help. We're supposed to pass it on. We're supposed to, in the program, say, "Here's what I learned," and pass it on to a young girl who may not have a father or may not have a support group. I feel for her. I was where she is.
RATHER
You know, I admire your candor. (LAUGH) And you're a straight talker. Journalists-- journalists love straight talkers. (LAUGH) But-- is there someone around who from time to time at least whispers in your ear, "Wouldn't it be better for you professionally if you weren't quite so honest?"
WYNONNA
Oh, about like a dozen.
RATHER
A dozen times a day I would think?
WYNONNA
I have-- let's just put it this way. I don't think anyone's ever said, "Wynonna, speak up." (LAUGH) There's things I'm not gonna hear. The good news is I say what people are thinking. The bad news, I say what people are thinking. You have to remember, I was on a bus with my mother for 10 years. You'd do the same thing if you were sitting there. You would just pretty much say it like it is, because what are you gonna lose? What, is she gonna fire me? (LAUGH) What, is she gonna ground me from performing in a sold out show? I mean, seriously, I'm 18 years old going, "Mom, taste takes a holiday. Are you seriously gonna wear that on-- on the Grammy's? Really?" That's the problem, though. I was raised in that kind of truth so when I came out of the chute and I, like you, name dropper, Oprah said, "I love Wynonna 'cause she brings it," I thought, "Is that a compliment?"
RATHER
That's a compliment. (LAUGH)
WYNONNA
So I have to go with it. I don't know what else to do because I think I have lived with secrets and betrayal and lies enough to where I don't wanna be a part of that 'cause secrets keep you sick. So I'm gonna tell the truth because I think it's freeing.
RATHER
You've done so many television interviews. You've been on stage all of your adult life and part of your childhood. Tell me something you think people don't know about you.
WYNONNA
I'm really funny. I think people think I'm really serious 'cause I'm terrified. Like, the whole time I was doing Dancing With The Stars I felt like people were lookin' at me like, "Well, she's all that." (LAUGH) And it was because I was terrified. I was so terrified. I was looking for exits, trying not to have a panic attack. Literally, 'cause I have performer's anxiety. And because I'm quiet people were going, "Well, she's arrogant." And so I would literally go visit people just so they could go, "She's actually delightful. And I actually enjoy her." I'm funny because I have to be. (LAUGH) Or I'll go insane. Just think about it. I'm in-- I'm in airports. I'm in these crazy situations. I have to have joy or I'm gonna lose my brain.
Peace In This House by Wynonna Judd (SOUND CLIP)
Every good thing that ever happens Starts from the inside out I’m tellin’ you now there’s gonna be peace in this house
ACT SIX
DAN RATHER
Is this a favorite guitar?
WYNONNA JUDD
I think this is probably one of the first. So they always hand it to me probably because they don’t- the others ones are tuned and ready to go so they want me to play something that’s---
RATHER
When and how did you learn to play the guitar?
WYNONNA
Necessity, we had no TV, no telephone. It was there.
RATHER
Right
WYNONNA
It was either that or torture Ashley
RATHER
(LAUGH)
WYNONNA
You know how life comes down to those destiny moments were my mom just happened to have a guitar. Someone gave to her. She doesn’t even play. And she had it and I just picked it up and went (LOOKS AT THE GUITAR). And then it became an appendage.
RATHER
Do you remember the first tuned you played?
WYNONNA
Yes I do. I remember the first song I learned was for my grandfather, Pawpaw Judd. It was, it was either his birthday, or it was just one of those we want to show you that we’re going to be famous. I think my mom said we’re going to learn this song to make him see that we were really talented
RATHER
Right
WYNONNA
Is that the one you want me to do?
RATHER
Sure if you can do that, that would be great.
WYNONNA
Are you sure? Nah, I think what I’ll do is, A.) It was an Elvis song; B.) It was our first song and when I walk out in front of thousands of people and you hear this, then you'll hear it, kind of. Verses-- cause we can go all day to the stuff that I learned but let me do--- that first, you know when you remember, you remember your first job right?
RATHER
I do.
WYNONNA
I think the thing for me that I’m thinking about today is, and when I said I was going back to the well is, I remember where I was, almost what I was wearing the very first time that Mom and I were ever on the radio, that I heard it. We were sitting at Nolensville Road, there was an intersection, we pulled the car up to the stoplight. Imagine us sitting in the backseat. Mom was reeking of jungle gardenia perfume, which is giving me a headache, I’m carsick and we’re sitting there and I hear…. (SINGS) Had a dream about you baby- Now you see you have to say it like that. (SINGS) Baby…….Had a dream about me…… See there was a lot of that going on, I don’t know why at 18. (SINGS) And you--who. Had a dream and I woke up cryin’. Well I can try but I just can’t stop. And the times dragging by, tick tock. Well my heart just can’t love no one but you.
Now what’s cool about that is it wasn’t a hit with Elvis but it was ours. It was our first song and from there my mother quit her job as a nurse that next day or something and the next thing I know it’s smokin’ up the charts. And it was just that first-- and I remember people saying they pulled the car over like, “what is that sound?”, because it was just an acoustic guitar at a time when everything was really slick-
RATHER
Right
WYNONNA
-production, and it was just like (PLAYING GUITAR). So I love being able to walk out on stage in front of, you know, a big crowd and that’s all you hear. And to me that’s where I’m headed, is back to this (POINTS TO GUITAR) and this (POINTS TO THROAT).
RATHER
And that’s what you mean when you say it’s a raw sound.
WYNONNA
When you hear this (PLAYING GUITAR) you don’t hear that much anymore on the radio you just hear all the slick. Sometimes I wonder if it’s even a guitar it’s so slick. But to hear it perfectly imperfect, it’s not totally tuned, it’s just (PLAYING GUITAR). (SINGS) Had a dream, like you know, urgh. (SINGS) About you baby. It’s like you know, you can’t duplicate that with a machine. And so all the Wynonnaisms, as they call it. I couldn’t say ‘You’ I had to say yo-- whoooo, they would just go (IMITATES CROWD). And I developed a style they say, out of ignorance. I didn’t know what I was doin’, I just knew I liked it. And now all of a sudden I’m making money and going, “Wow. I did it,” --I love that ignorance, thing of not knowing any better- is what I love the most. And it became our sound.
RATHER
And what a sound. And thank you again, and thank you for this.
WYNONNA
Well, thank you for listening; I don’t get to that very much.
RATHER
I love it. I love it.
END TRANSCRIPT