Fifh Session, 41st Parliament

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD)

SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON REFORMING THE POLICE ACT

Virtual Meeting Monday, September 21, 2020 Issue No. 4

NICHOLAS SIMONS, MLA, CHAIR

ISSN 2563-4372

MEMBERSHIP Reforming the Police Act

Chair: (Powell River–Sunshine Coast, NDP)

Deputy Chair: Jas Johal (Richmond-Queensborough, BC Liberal)

Members: (Surrey-Guildford, NDP) (–Lonsdale, NDP) (Prince George–Mackenzie, BC Liberal) (Saanich North and the Islands, BC Green Party) (Skeena, BC Liberal) (Surrey–Green Timbers, NDP) (Parksville-Qualicum, BC Liberal)

Clerk: Karan Riarh

CONTENTS

Monday, September 21, 2020 Page

Briefngs on Police Act...... 19 Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General B. Butterworth-Carr

MINUTES Special Committee on Reforming the Police Act

Monday, September 21, 2020 9:00 a.m. Virtual Meeting

Present: Nicholas Simons, MLA (Chair); Jas Johal, MLA (Deputy Chair); Garry Begg, MLA; Bowinn Ma, MLA; Adam Olsen, MLA; Ellis Ross, MLA; Rachna Singh, MLA; Michelle Stilwell, MLA

Unavoidably Absent: Mike Morris, MLA

1. Te Chair called the Committee to order at 9:01 a.m. 2. Opening remarks by Nicholas Simons, MLA, Chair. 3. Te following witnesses appeared before the Committee and answered questions related to the Committee’s review of the Police Act: Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General: • Mark Sieben, Deputy Solicitor General • Brenda Butterworth-Carr, Tr'injà Shär njit dintlät, Assistant Deputy Minister and Director of Police Services 4. Te Committee recessed from 10:02 a.m. to 10:04 a.m. 5. Te Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair at 10:04 a.m. Nicholas Simons, MLA Karan Riarh Chair Clerk to the Committee

19

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 21, 2020 Key drivers that support change include economic chal- lenges and recovery eforts associated with COVID-19; Te committee met at 9:01 a.m. social media — the public is demanding more transpar- ency and quicker response to events questioning police [N. Simons in the chair.] actions; growing policing budget pressures; inequities in the funding, structure and the delivery of police services; N. Simons (Chair): Welcome, members of the Special rapidly evolving technology, which may be underutilized Committee on Reforming the Police Act. in policing but is also very costly; deteriorating RCMP Welcome, guests. assets and capital infrastructure; the city of Surrey’s trans- My name is Nicholas Simons, and I am speaking to you ition to a municipal police service; growing demands and from the territory of the Tla’amin Nation. It’s a pleasure to expectations on police to respond to complex social issues, be here to continue this important work. such as mental health, addictions and harm reduction Today we’re going to be hearing from three ministries where other professional services may be better suited; and the Ofce of the Human Rights Commissioner on the and the commitment to reconciliation with Indigenous issue that stands before us. We’ll continue to receive back- peoples. ground informational briefngs over the next few weeks. Te opportunities presented will provide a foundation I’d like to begin right of the bat by welcoming Mark to address the incredibly important issues the special com- Sieben and the assistant deputy minister and director of mittee has been tasked with addressing, including the police services, policing and security branch, Brenda But- scope of systemic racism and its impact on public safety. terworth-Carr, from the Ministry of Public Safety and [9:05 a.m.] Solicitor General. As the director of police services, my vision is to ad- Let’s get right to it — into the subject matter at hand. If vance public safety towards a future state where British members of the committee have questions, let’s wait till the Columbians have fexible, efcient, efective policing and end. Just indicate by raising your real hand. public safety services that meet the needs of the com- Okay. Tank you very much for being here. Go right munities they serve, a vision that can be accomplished by ahead. leveraging the opportunity before us and embarking on whole-scale changes to policing and public safety. Briefngs on Police Act Given the drivers for change, I would like to highlight for the committee the work that is already underway with- MINISTRY OF PUBLIC SAFETY in the mandate of the director of police services, as well as AND SOLICITOR GENERAL to identify challenges and opportunities for reform. Te presentation is organized into fve themes, which B. Butterworth-Carr: Tank you and good morning, are governance, roles and responsibilities, oversight, ser- Mr. Chair and committee. It is my pleasure to have been vice delivery and funding. I should note that many of the invited back before the special committee to provide infor- subjects I’m going to discuss are cross-cutting, and they mation on opportunities for reform and improving poli- have been categorized into these themes based on a best- cing in . I have some prepared remarks ft approach. on this topic. Te theme of governance captures the legal framework Prior to commencing, and for the committee’s aware- on which policing is provided as well as the structures that ness, I do, as was noted, have a couple of staf supporting govern integrated teams and specialized units. It includes me today. When asked a question, I may need to mute my mechanisms that balance the priorities of government and microphone and confer with them prior to responding. communities versus the operational independence of poli- As well, a PowerPoint presentation has been prepared, cing agencies — for example, the minister’s priority letters. which you would have received in advance. Under the Police Act, the minister, as the Solicitor Gen- In recognition of our shared goal to transform and eral and top law enforcement ofcial for the province, is modernize public safety, I am confdent that the informa- responsible for ensuring that an adequate and efective tion I provide today will assist in furthering the achieve- level of policing and law enforcement is maintained ment of that goal. Before discussing opportunities for throughout British Columbia. Along with the responsib- reforming and improving policing, I’d like to once again ilities of the minister, the director of police services is highlight the converging pressures and challenges public responsible for superintending policing and law enforce- safety is facing. ment. Te combined responsibility and fundamental ob- We know the Police Act has become outdated and cum- jective is to ensure public safety. bersome. Policing costs are increasing for all levels of gov- Te province’s mandate includes all areas, from rural ernment. Public confdence has eroded, as demonstrated and unincorporated areas, municipalities under 5,000 per- by the ongoing protests in British Columbia, Canada and sons, and large municipal areas across B.C. First Nations across North America. 20 Reforming the Police Act Monday, September 21, 2020 reserves and treaty lands must also receive adequate levels municipalities policed by municipal police departments. of policing services throughout the province. Each department is governed by a police board, which Te delivery of police services throughout B.C. is largely consists of a maximum of nine members. Part 5 of the provided by the RCMP through four agreements involving Police Act establishes various requirements and proced- the province. Tese agreements, when properly imple- ures for municipal police boards. mented and adhered to, are designed to ensure that [9:10 a.m.] adequate and efective policing services are provided in At this time, existing governance structures outlined in consultation with the appropriate levels of government, the Police Act are not as efective as they could be and ensuring that those responsible for the costs and delivery can be improved to assist police boards with business prac- of the services are held accountable. tices, accountabilities and transparency with communities. Tese four agreements are…. Te provincial police ser- Te lack of government access to B.C.-wide police and vice agreement. Tis is an agreement between Public police complaint data limits the ability to monitor trends Safety Canada and B.C. that allows for the use of the in policing and public safety, therefore also limiting timely RCMP as the province’s provincial police service and to policy adjustments. While technology is available to im- police rural and unincorporated areas as well as municip- prove business intelligence, the systems are not aligned, alities under 5,000 persons. Services are costed between which limits the value. In fact, the RCMP struggle to Canada and B.C. on a 70-30 split, respectively. Te 70 per- provide adequate business intelligence data, which limits cent portion, funded by B.C., is funded in part through the their ability to articulate their current status versus the police tax I will discuss later. demands on their services. Te municipal police service agreement. Once a muni- Police boards may also be challenged with inadequate cipality exceeds 5,000 persons, they become responsible to business intelligence and specialized support to interpret provide police services. If the municipality chooses to con- their policing needs and manage budgets. Also, they are, tinue to have their police services delivered by the RCMP, on occasion, challenged in understanding their roles, then the MPSA allows B.C. to subcontract the provincial which may limit their ability to provide efective gov- RCMP to deliver municipal services to that community. I ernance. would describe this agreement as a gateway to allow this to Tese issues can be addressed by increased clarity on take place. responsibilities and increased provincial governance. Te municipal police unit agreement outlines the re- Enhancements should expand the authority and control of sponsibilities for the municipality for delivery of its poli- the province while still maintaining the interests of local cing services and the expectations of the RCMP in the policing while aligning provincial priorities and maintain- delivery of those services. Te costs for police services ing operational independence of police. move to municipality, with costs shared between Canada Tere are opportunities to enhance provincial gov- and the municipality, either on a 70-30 or a 90-10…. Te ernance for front-line policing, also known as detachment 90-10 is applicable for those municipalities which exceed policing, and policing to Indigenous communities. Tis 15,000 persons. Under the Police Act, B.C. is not fnan- could be achieved through identifying tiers of responsibil- cially responsible for the costs of policing with any muni- ities for policing and public safety, including improving on cipalities over 5,000 unless agreed to on a case-by-case hybrid and integrated detachments and regionalization of basis. services within your graphic areas. Te First Nations policing program was developed to It will be important to consider all Indigenous peoples, provide supplementary police services to First Nation including Métis, Inuit and urban First Nations, when communities beyond those delivered under the PPSA examining possible options. While the existing PPSA and through a community tripartite agreement and allow for CTAs require the RCMP to consult with their local First additional police activities sought by the community. Nation communities, there is an opportunity to develop Tese additional police services are funded by Canada stronger relationships and an ability for local and Indigen- and B.C., split 52-48 respectively. First Nation communit- ous governments in setting their annual priorities, goals ies may also choose to deliver their own policing services and objectives that better support local police needs. under the same funding model, and there is one such Tis may be achieved by embedding provisions in legis- police service, the Stl’atl’imx police service. lation or regulations, such as legislating local or regional If a municipality chooses not to use the RCMP for its boards of governance. Provisions in the Police Act — part policing, the Police Act allows them to use another muni- 6, the local police committees — that allow the formation cipal police service or create their own. In all instances, of a formal local police committee have not been utilized the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General remains nor mandated. Addressing the issues associated with part responsible to ensure that an adequate and efective level 6 is an opportunity to enhance local and Indigenous gov- of policing and law enforcement is maintained throughout ernance over front-line policing services. the province. Te province is committed to working with the federal As you’re aware, there are currently 12, soon to be 13, government in examining opportunities to further en- Monday, September 21, 2020 Reforming the Police Act 21 hance the First Nations policing program, including ex- ity of the province, they refer to these as districts. Te ploring culturally appropriate alternative service delivery core population areas for these districts are situated in and models and the provision of essential services. around the Lower Mainland, Victoria, Kelowna and Prince I am also in the process of creating a provincial police George, by way of example. advisory committee that will advise the director of police Tere has been a great deal of work done to seek ef- services on fnancial matters and support the existing ciencies in delivering specialized police services in the committee such as the RCMP contract and policy fnance Lower Mainland with the establishment of the Integrated operational steering committee. Tis will be similar to Homicide Investigation Team, the integrated forensic what has been established at the national level and identifcation section and several other services, all over- enshrined in the RCMP Act. seen by the integrated team advisory committee. I believe As the committee may also be aware, Alberta recently there is an opportunity to formalize the governance struc- restructured its police funding model to ensure that all ture through section 4 of the Police Act and create similar Albertans have a say in the future use of their policing efciencies within other areas of the province and provide resources. Alberta created a similar advisory committee, strong cost forecasting and accountability through similar which provides recommendations on policing resources to governance modeling in these areas. the Alberta government and the commanding ofce of the Further, this special committee could consider what RCMP within that province. could be implemented or improved to allow for efective, Te concept of an advisory committee could become a efcient and consistent governance regarding the estab- formalized structure that would permanently improve the lishment of integrated teams in the province. accountability and business acumen and intelligence of the Police boards play a key role in establishing and govern- provincial police service. ing municipal police departments, and they are intended Tere are a number of integrated police units and struc- to be free from political interference. However, in British tures operating throughout the province that would bene- Columbia, the mayor is required by the Police Act to sit as ft from enhanced governance. Integrated teams provide the chair of the police board. Tis is not the case in any specialized police services to more than one jurisdiction other jurisdiction in Canada. and may be considered integrated if they are comprised of Most jurisdictions have legislation that provides a pro- police ofcers from more than one police agency or from cess whereby board members select one member to serve at least two levels of policing — for example, federal, pro- as chair and another as vice-chair. Due to the requirement vincial and municipal. Tey are also considered integrated to act as the chair of the police board, mayors in B.C. ofen if multiple policing jurisdictions contribute to funding or fnd themselves in actual or perceived conficts of interest, stafng. particularly in connection with the police budget process. In municipalities across British Columbia, investiga- Tese challenges are not benefcial to good governance of tional complexity and police budgets are facing increased municipal police departments. pressure amid the growing complexity of policing. To Te appointment of vice-chairs is also an issue as, unlike reduce the inefciencies created by a duplication of efort in other jurisdictions, there is no legislated process. In and the overlap in specialized service delivery, the pro- B.C., boards are appointing vice-chairs according to their vince supports the integration and consolidation of police own initiative, leading to varying practices and the ap- services, particularly where they are highly technical, cap- pointment of multiple vice-chairs on some boards. While ital-intensive and specialized. Examples of integrated spe- it is important that police boards are free from political cialized services include forensic identifcation, homicide interference, it is also important that all municipal police units and anti-gang units. Possible future integrated teams departments take a coordinated approach to addressing could concentrate on hate-based crimes. matters of provincial importance. [9:15 a.m.] Te minister can establish priorities for policing in B.C. I have begun reviewing all such services provided by the under section 2.1. However, municipal police boards only province through the RCMP to establish a clear under- take these into account, as the minister’s priorities are non- standing of what services are supported in today’s land- binding. In order to ensure that the minister’s priorities are scape, those no longer necessary and those which may appropriately considered and implemented at the muni- require new funding models to ensure that they remain cipal level, the special committee could require municipal adequate and efective. Despite their benefts, the estab- police boards to align their priorities with those set by the lishment and governance of integrated policing teams has minister. been a long-standing issue for local governments, police Policing is a shared responsibility between federal, pro- agencies and the province in the Lower Mainland and in vincial and municipal governments. Issues falling into the the capital regional district. theme of roles and responsibilities are related to identi- Te province of British Columbia has no single, major fying services provided by police, determining who the population core but rather has major population centres appropriate service provider is and who should pay for the across its landscape. For the RCMP, who police the major- service. Currently there is a lack of clarity in legislation 22 Reforming the Police Act Monday, September 21, 2020 regarding who is responsible for providing particular ser- Te use of the supplemental law enforcement has vices, which leads to uncertainty, inconsistency and con- proven successful in relation to the legalization of can- fusion. nabis, and I’ve previously asked the special committee to A recurring theme at the annual UBCM convention consider new public safety models that promote proactive is that municipalities feel they are subsidizing provincial community policing, including the utilization and broad- resources, that front-line and core policing resources are ening of the not-yet-in-force Community Safety Act. scarce and that municipalities are ofen lef struggling to Again, there are other opportunities as well, such as creat- understand who has responsibility for governance through ing new legislation similar to Alberta’s Peace Ofcer Act or these discussions. a community policing act. We need proactive and prevent- Te province provides provincial police support re- ative measures and to move beyond relying on police to sources to solve high-risk incidents, target organized react and respond to all crisis situations. crime and gangs, and capital to support operations, inclu- A cross-government approach is required to respond to ding aircraf and marine vessels. Tese services are issues associated with mental health and substance abuse. provided across the province to all police agencies. Tere is Tere is a need for formalized health care diversion and an ongoing discussion with the RCMP to ensure that they harm reduction approaches, as well as the participation of are appropriately costing for these services and engaging health care professionals when responding to those who their local governments. sufer from mental health and substance use challenges. We are working with our partners to ensure that sys- Opportunities that could be leveraged include increased tems and processes are in place that support this initiative communication and access to information between B.C. and mitigate against future confusion or misunderstand- health authorities and law enforcement and giving in- ing. Clearly defning which services should be provided by creased priority to persons apprehended under the Mental the police and level of government provides the opportun- Health Act in hospital settings. ity to develop a robust framework for the continuum of What I’d like to stress to the committee is that the issue policing and law enforcement across the province. of mental health has become a policing challenge to a [9:20 a.m.] heightened degree not previously seen. Past decisions on Supporting this approach would enable my ofce to how to respond efectively to those with mental health develop criteria to guide decisions about who should have issues have resulted in police not being at the forefront. responsibility for providing particular policing services. Currently there are several initiatives to support re- Political support to address the lack of clarity regarding sponses to mental health and substance use challenges. who — federal, provincial or municipal governments — Te goal should be to formally mandate and expand on is responsible for what services will empower the work these initiatives to achieve outcomes for individuals in a required to address the inequity and patchwork of law proactive manner, instead of being reactive, and to reduce enforcement practices and mitigate disagreements or dis- demand on police. Specifcally, identify opportunities for putes between levels of government. broader coordination and prevent calls from being made Due to the expansion of responsibilities, police have to police agencies and seek qualifed resources who are not assumed roles outside of their core duties and expertise, police ofcers. such as their role in responding to mental health issues. Te theme of oversight groups, mechanisms that are in Tis is largely due to a lack of collaborative and coordin- place to investigate the misconduct of police ofcers, such ated cross-government approach. as the OPCC, the IIO and the CRCC, as well as police Subsequently, the expansion of responsibilities has boards who have oversight over municipal police depart- impacted the ability to deliver front-line policing. Police ments. Te Ofce of the Police Complaints Commission- have adapted to these new roles, and while there has been er, or OPCC, is established in part 9 of the Police Act, and demonstrated successes, such as the car programs, which the processes and procedures for the complaint process are partnership programs between police and health are outlined in part 11. Part 11 only applies to municipal authorities, there have also been substantial challenges. police ofcers and not to the RCMP members. Te public, through their calls to defund police, are now Te independent investigative ofce, or IIO, is estab- actively questioning if police are the appropriate service lished in part 7.1 of the Police Act. Te IIO has jurisdiction providers, and the status quo is unmaintainable. over both the RCMP and municipal police departments To address the concerns of the public, to reduce budget to investigate incidents of police-involved serious harm or pressures and to allow police to focus on delivering front- death, whether the ofcer was on or of duty. line policing, there is a need to modernize the continuum Te Civilian Review and Complaints Commission, or of policing, law enforcement, security and public safety CRCC, is established under the Royal Canadian Mounted services across all sectors and ensure that the appropriate Police Act. Te commission is a federal entity separate legislative, regulatory and policy frameworks are in place from the RCMP. Te CRCC has jurisdiction over the con- to address the increased need for preventative and proact- duct of on-duty RCMP members. ive responses outside the traditional skill sets of police. [9:25 a.m.] Monday, September 21, 2020 Reforming the Police Act 23

While each of these agencies continue their work, and in turn limiting the ability to timely monitor trends and the OPCC and IIO have made signifcant improvements, respond nimbly to policy changes that may be required. there remains a perceived lack of trust and accountability, Access to this data will support the development of per- especially with the CRCC within British Columbia. formance metrics, which will provide robust and mean- As committee members are aware, on November 25, ingful measures that identify gaps and opportunities in 2019, the special committee to review the police complaint current service levels. commission released its report with 38 recommendations Also, improved reporting on information related to to amend part 11 of the Police Act or otherwise improve police complaints is required. Systemic racism has been the efciency, efectiveness and accessibility of the com- acknowledged as existing within police agencies, as well plaint process. Policing and security branch are currently as the fact that many Black, Indigenous and other people analyzing the recommendations and identifying next steps of colour who are living within British Columbia have not and have met with the OPCC. been treated fairly by police. Complaint reports should I would like to use this opportunity to recommend that provide race-based data regarding complaints and identify the committee consider enhancing the governance of how many complaints are found to be unsubstantiated and police oversight by amending the Police Act to establish a substantiated. separate oversight act. Tis would be consistent with the In addition, it’s important to identify the total number approach of other provinces and signifcantly improve the of complaints, both substantiated and unsubstantiated, for structure of our legislative framework. anonymized ofcers. For example, if an ofcer receives During my previous presentation, I identifed concerns numerous race-based complaints, this data is needed to with the CRCC that I would like to reiterate. In B.C. we address issues of public trust and ensure accountability. have oversight bodies for complaints related to miscon- Service delivery is a theme that has been used to rec- duct: the OPCC and the complaint process in the Police ognize the legal framework that has created distinct fed- Act, which only applies to municipal police ofcers, and eral, provincial and municipal levels of policing and how the CRCC, which is responsible for complaints regarding that layered structure, in turn, impacts the services that the conduct of RCMP members. are provided by police. Crime typically does not abide by With the CRCC, there are long-standing concerns about geographic and community boundaries. Structuring poli- the timeliness of their investigations. As you are aware, cing services based on the same boundaries has caused some high-profle investigations have been stalled for well inefciencies, including duplication of efort and overlaps over a year. As well, the CRCC oversight mechanisms are and gaps in the services being delivered. For members of not as robust as those of the OPCC. Te CRCC is depend- the public and policing partners, it is ofen unclear what ent on the RCMP detachments to conduct its investiga- level of government is responsible for delivering a particu- tions, and it lacks the authority to step into the investigat- lar service. ive process. Tis is a major issue. Te current structure and service delivery model has During the missing and murdered Indigenous women resulted in concerns about efciency, consistency and and girls inquiry, there were numerous concerns expressed equity across the province. I ask you: if we’re building a by the public and Indigenous families, groups and leaders policing model from scratch, would we choose the current regarding the timeliness, lack of accountability and trans- model, which consists of the federal RCMP contracted to parency of the investigations. act as the provincial police service in rural and unincor- I would like the committee to turn its attention to the porated areas? diferences between the OPCC and the CRCC, to their [9:30 a.m.] complaints and investigative process, and to examine if Again, all soon-to-be 13 municipalities with a popula- these diferences should exist, and potential opportunities tion over 5,000 policed by municipal police departments for alignment and improvements. As well as the IIO, spe- governed by independent police boards. Sixty-fve muni- cifcally look to bring the IIO under the OPCC for greater cipalities with a population over 5,000 contracted with transparency and independence. the provincial government for RCMP municipal services. Additional challenges exist with the accountability and Tirty-one of these municipalities have populations over governance of police agencies. Municipal police depart- 15,000. Tirty-four of these municipalities have popula- ments are not required to align with government priorit- tions between 5,000 and 14,999. Across the province there ies, and other police agencies lack the capacity to produce are more than 135 detachments and approximately 20 data demonstrating how they are aligning with govern- RCMP community safety ofces located across four dis- ment priorities. If enhanced government structures are tricts. implemented, these can be used to improve provincial We have an opportunity to move to a more regionalized oversight. and efective model through a continuum of services, Tere are issues with accessing anonymized police data enhanced integration and enhanced centralization. Parti- that could be addressed by the committee. Specifcally, the cipation in integrated teams can be mandated and new province does not own the data, so access is restricted, models, such as regional hubs, can be pursued. Although 24 Reforming the Police Act Monday, September 21, 2020 present in section 4 of the Police Act, as previously men- Mainland and the capital region but has yet to become tioned, it has not been formally instituted. a reality despite Commissioner Oppal recommending, in Service providers are accountable to each municipality the report of the Missing Women Commission of Inquiry, for providing police services that meet the community’s that a unifed police service be required for the greater needs and expectations. Te mayors and/or police boards Vancouver area. have the responsibility to set out the objectives, priorities Other provinces, including Alberta and Ontario, have and goals, and detachment or unit commanders and chief permissive statutory provisions for the establishment of constables are accountable for implementing and report- regional police services and governance frameworks, ing on these initiatives. Tis is an area that the committee while the B.C. Police Act is silent. could look to strengthen. Tis could include mandating While there are multiple eforts underway to combat comprehensive community safety plans for the communit- organized crime in the province, there is no federal ies and regions. strategy. Currently the Combined Forces Special Enforce- Indigenous peoples continue to be overrepresented in ment Unit is the lead agency that is responsible for collect- the criminal justice system as both victims and ofenders. ive eforts. Crime rates in Indigenous communities are typically high- Te Organized Crime Agency, OCA, is a provincially er than in other communities. As part of the provincial designated policing unit but is utilized as a subordinate police service, the RCMP provides dedicated supplement- contingent within the RCMP-led CFSEU. Staf are dis- al police services to 132 First Nation communities through persed among CFSEU in a wide variety of roles. OCA the federally driven First Nations policing program. Te does not currently have its own chief ofcer or board of program aims to address marginalizing factors through governance. OCABC is absent true organizational identity providing dedicated, culturally appropriate enhanced poli- and mandate. Te special committee could consider the cing. Unfortunately, not all Indigenous communities with- reconstitution of OCABC to become the lead agency for in the province are part of the program, as a result of the B.C.’s organized crime eforts. restricted federal funding. [9:35 a.m.] Additionally, it has been identifed that Indigenous OCA could be positioned to work collaboratively with communities are not satisfed with the level of police all RCMP business lines and provincial regulatory agen- resources provided. Te under-resourcing of policing ser- cies to conduct a broad range of coordinated enforcement vices is a contributing factor to the marginalization of eforts. Tey could work with industry, public and private Indigenous communities. Resourcing levels under this sector institutions to implement cost-efective prevention program are controlled by the federal government. Other strategies. An outstanding issue is how OCABC would provinces and territories, such as Manitoba, the Yukon and interact with CFSEU-BC and the RCMP, given that the Saskatchewan, provide alternative service delivery mod- federal government has exclusive jurisdiction and control els. Te foundations for these models are found in the over the RCMP. Te goal is a B.C.-led comprehensive and Police Acts or, in Manitoba’s case, under the Police Ser- evidence-based approach that utilizes all tools in the tool- vices Amendment Act. Te special committee could con- box to reduce the province’s vulnerability to organized sider if these similar models would be appropriate in B.C. crime. What is important is that the police service that is pro- Finally, although the director of police services sets vided be refective and representative of the community it overall standards in some areas of public safety training serves. I think there is room for signifcant improvements such as policing, there is no current continuum or coor- with regard to the policing of Indigenous communities. dinated strategy for public safety training in B.C. Tere An ongoing challenge is the increasing pressure placed are opportunities to leverage existing service providers, on police budgets, given the growing complexity of poli- such as the Justice Institute of B.C. and the RCMP’s Pacifc cing and of criminal activity. Te provincial government region training centre to establish a less fragmented and has supported the integration and consolidation of police more consistent approach to training police. services that centralize services that are highly technical, Training related to systemic racism could be threaded capital-intensive and specialized while at the same time through a provincially mandated, linked training con- decentralizing funds that provide service directly to the tinuum guided by a legislated board with a clear mandate problem. Te province continues to identify further on ensuring that training is refective of the needs of poli- opportunities for the expansion of the integration of spe- cing and public safety in British Columbia. I encourage cialized services in the Lower Mainland, the capital the committee to consider the models in other provinces regional district and elsewhere in the province. that have dedicated police and public safety academies Another possible solution would be to mandate the that help infuence the expected culture desired, that are regionalization of police agencies. A regional police ser- aligned with academia, that are evidence-based and that vice can provide economies of scale and can be very efect- can help address this issue. ive where there is broad community support. Regionaliz- In order for these types of changes to occur in a nimble ation continues to be a topic of discussion in the Lower manner that suits the needs of British Columbians, the Monday, September 21, 2020 Reforming the Police Act 25 director of police services must have authority to enact any specialized services, other provincial resources or pro- changes despite the political climate. vincial infrastructure costs. Funding is a theme that refers to budgeting and ex- Te police tax amounts assessed on property owners are penditures related to policing, including identifying which determined by property classifcation and the net taxable levels of government are responsible to pay. Te current value of land and improvements, not the actual policing model of funding is perceived as unfair or inequitable by costs in a specifc area. Consequently, the amount paid in many local governments. Of concern to some are the cost- one contributing area may difer substantially from anoth- sharing arrangements between the diferent levels of gov- er contributing area. Tis has led to various communities ernment and the current structure and service delivery raising concerns that the police tax is an inequitable fund- model, which both contribute to substantial diferences ing model. Consideration could be given to updating the in the amount that local property tax payers contribute. police tax formula or model. RCMP unionization will undoubtably result in increased [9:40 a.m.] costs for both provincial and municipal governments. Te opportunities I’ve described today are examples of Many municipalities feel that they are subsidizing pro- key items that my ofce has identifed. However, they are vincial and federal policing by having their municipal not the only opportunities or solutions that could be pur- police ofcers involved in an investigation of what they sued. As mentioned, we do share common goals: to design believe are issues that are the responsibility of the pro- public safety in a way that makes sense for all British Col- vincial or federal governments. Additionally, municipalit- umbians; to advance B.C. toward a fexible, efcient and ies that attract a high number of tourists may have greater efective public safety model; to look beyond the current public safety challenges and increased policing and pub- structure and leverage opportunities and look beyond the lic safety needs which are paid for by local residents. Te status quo; to deliver public safety services in the most mandate of the committee provides an opportunity to efcient and efective manner; and to ensure public safety review how police services are funded across the province. services are diverse and inclusive, address systemic racism I want to ensure that the RCMP is providing good value and discrimination and meet the requirements of the for money in the provincial police service. As previously Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act. highlighted, my ofce is determining the gaps and oppor- Te committee has an opportunity to make wholescale tunities available to strengthen their fnancial and business changes and be at the forefront of the paradigm shif that acumen the contracted service provider with a goal of is happening in Canada and more broadly in North Amer- identifying the true cost drivers that they are facing. ica right now. As I mentioned earlier, if we were to build Increasing the efectiveness of the services and extend- policing from the ground up, would we choose the current ing scalability of response is another goal of the policing model we have now? and security branch. Te branch has been identifying ine- In closing, I thank you for the opportunity to speak to quities in the current structure, such as diferences in per- the committee again. My staf and I very much look for- capita spending. Further regionalization may provide a ward to the committee’s report and recommendations. model for delivering services more efciently and equit- ably by capitalizing on economies of scale. Regionalization N. Simons (Chair): Tank you very much, Director. We continues to be a challenging issue and could be an oppor- really appreciate your insight into the complicated issues tunity to mitigate some of the funding and service equity that we’re deliberating over today. With that — that was issues. very comprehensive, and it’s much appreciated — there are Another funding-related area that should be considered some questions. for reform is the police tax. Unincorporated and rural areas and municipalities under 5,000 in population are J. Johal (Deputy Chair): Ms. Carr, thank you so much policed by the provincial police service. Tese areas pay for your presentation. I found it very informative. Some the provincial police tax, which recovers a small portion good points in regard to what we need to be looking at in of the cost of providing general duty and general investig- regard to recommendations as well. ative police services. Trough a formula described in the One of the issues that you brought up was the further Police Act, the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor Gen- integration and regionalization of policing. Can you give eral estimates the cost of these services to all contributing me an update on what, at this point, is integrated? I think areas and provides the estimate to that Ministry of Fin- of IHIT and maybe a few other programs. Do you have a ance, which determines the fnal police tax amount. sense of what we are doing here already that’s regionally Te act restricts the police tax to no more than 50 per- integrated, in the Lower Mainland specifcally? cent of the estimated cost. In 2018, the police tax raised a total of $31.1 million, which was 32 percent of the B. Butterworth-Carr: I do, yes. Tanks. province’s estimated costs. To be clear, this is 32 percent of Just to diferentiate between the integration and the the estimate and not the actual costs and does not include regionalization within the Lower Mainland, we refer to the Integrated Homicide Investigative Team, the Integrated 26 Reforming the Police Act Monday, September 21, 2020

Forensic Identifcation Services, the integrated police dog and you are in a position to advise us which you think we services, the integrated emergency response team and the might look at. integrated trafc services as an actual regionalized group of services. So although they’re all integrated, they’re B. Butterworth-Carr: Tank you for your question. regionalized because the geographical boundaries that Tere absolutely are examples of regionalized services, they’re responsible for are from Boston Bar and Sea to Sky particularly within the Ontario area. Whether that’s Hali- Highway and everywhere in between. Tat’s an example of fax regional — that, obviously, is in eastern Canada — as regionalized services. well as the regional policing that happens and the expan- We also have additional integrated services, by way of sion of same within Toronto, Peel regional services, we example, on Vancouver Island: the Vancouver Island Inte- have a variety of examples that we could provide to the grated Major Crime Unit. We are currently looking at committee. opportunities to expand that particular service as well as We’ll certainly look to do that in writing and compile replicate many of the regionalized services that are cur- that list while, as I was mentioning, diferentiating be- rently within the Lower Mainland. We can certainly pro- tween our current integrated detachments and our current vide the exhaustive list to the committee so you have it in regional services. Again, I use cybercrime as an example. writing. Tat’s another area where we could beneft from a region- alized approach, right? So there’s detachment regionaliza- J. Johal (Deputy Chair): One of the things, Ms. Carr, tion, and there are services that could be regionalized and you also brought up was just the…. You’ve talked a little bit further integrated. about regionalization. Is there a police force or a policing service in Canada G. Begg: I would ask, as well, if you’re able to provide that has a model — something we can look at — that integ- some rural and remote examples of policing practices — rates a large swath of the population of a major centre, like again, perhaps, in Ontario, with the north of Ontario or Vancouver, that you think does it well in regard to deliv- areas that are similar to our northern parts of British Col- ering some of these services? Not all police forces are per- umbia — that have stand-alone detachments or police ser- fect. But is there a service you think that we can look at vices that we might like to look at here. that, hopefully, guides us in regard to where we need to be? I think of Vancouver as a major hub. I think of Victoria B. Butterworth-Carr: Absolutely. and the whole region as one. But is there a service that you think, in Canada, we should be looking at as a potential N. Simons (Chair): Well, Garry, thank you for that. model? B. Ma: Maybe following up on the questions of Jas and B. Butterworth-Carr: Tere are. Certainly, examples Garry, I wonder about other countries and models in other exist within Ontario. We do have examples here that we countries that maybe have produced better outcomes than can provide as a template but that really could beneft from here in B.C. I just throw that into the mix there. I’ve got a further expansion of an integrated and regionalized mod- few questions — two for the ministry and maybe one for el. the Clerk of Committees. By way of example, we do have distinct integrated de- Brenda, in your presentation, you mentioned address- tachments throughout the Lower Mainland and the pro- ing systemic racism, in part by identifying whether com- vince. You’ve got provincial resources in addition to muni- plaints are substantiated or unsubstantiated. Tat seems to cipal resources in addition to some federal resources. We imply that each of these acts is in fact due to individualized can certainly provide that in writing, because there are racism rather than systemic racism, which is much more examples elsewhere within Canada that the committee difcult to pinpoint on a case-to-case basis but is instead could beneft from reviewing. the result of an overall system. Tat’s the term “systemic.” [9:45 a.m.] I was wondering if you might share with us what defni- tion of “systemic racism” you are working of in these pres- G. Begg: Tanks, Brenda, for your presentation. It was entations. very comprehensive. I want to follow up. Perhaps you’ve already answered B. Butterworth-Carr: Tank you for that question. this with Jas’s question. I’m interested if you’re aware of We’re relying on the literal defnition of systemic racism other policing models, particularly from across the coun- and, to your point specifcally, absolutely understanding try, that you think we could replicate — sort of in the institutionalized systemic racism versus the individual. I method of not trying to reinvent the wheel. Certainly, do think that there’s space available that we could learn there must be jurisdictions that have a good model, or a and beneft from collecting data as it pertains to particular series of models or practices, that could be replicated here individuals and at least having that data made available. to the beneft of all. If I understand your answer, there are, Monday, September 21, 2020 Reforming the Police Act 27

Frankly, I think it provides a clearer and broader picture they do play a dual role, and there are frequently actual or than what we currently have now. perceived conficts of interest. [9:50 a.m.] In terms of having or ensuring there’s that connectivity Again, if a certain group is overrepresented in unsub- within the municipal councils, I believe that there is an stantiated complaints, that could be a sign of potential sys- opportunity to have [audio interrupted] from the council temic racism that we would need to look at. It’s a very on the board. Simply, I’m asking for consideration that it multi-pronged approach, but in the absence of data, that is may not be the mayor. challenging for us. B. Ma: I see. Tank you so much for that clarifcation. B. Ma: Okay. Tank you so much for clarifying that. I’m wondering if you can expand a little bit about these My next question. In your presentation, you had made perceived conficts of interest or actual conficts of interest. a recommendation that mayors be removed from muni- Can you give examples — without naming names, of cipal boards in order to kind of remove the politics out of course? What sorts of conficts come up? policing. I was thinking about what you were saying as you were presenting it. B. Butterworth-Carr: A point in case is when it comes For me, it’s clear that policing is a highly political ser- to police budgets. We’ve seen that play out in the media as vice, that what’s deemed acceptable or not is largely based of recent. I think there are certain decisions that mayors on what the public deems acceptable or not; what kind and councils will make and may pass a resolution. It can of services that are need that are appropriate for police to be perceived as a confict when the mayor is chair of the respond to change with the social culture of the public; police board and the police board may go in a diferent whether police are expected to kettle, use frearms, engage direction, because the police board has their own statutory or not engage or treat drug usage as criminal or as health authority and responsibility for the police…. So there, issues; or whether a break and enter into a car is more or again, is another potential confict. less of a priority than a white-collar crime that afects mil- lions of people. B. Ma: My last question is maybe for Katey. I’m really All of these things are very highly political matters that struggling to keep straight what acts and diferent commit- evolve over time with the culture of our society and, thus, tees afect provincial police — like diferent roles — muni- policing, as the service is in fact highly political. cipal police forces or RCMP. With that in mind, I wondered that…. It strikes me that I’m wondering. Would it be possible for the Clerk of the mayor is ofen the only member of the police force Committees to put together a table that summarizes where directly elected by the public and, thus, the only member things lie? My understanding is that not all of the Police of the police force that is directly accountable to the pub- Act applies to the RCMP. If that’s the case, what does, and lic, but your recommendation is to remove them from that so forth. Tat would be really helpful to me, and I sus- position. pect…. My question is: who, then, with that change, would be [9:55 a.m.] the accountable elected ofcial? Do you envision it being the Solicitor General up at the provincial level? Or are N. Simons (Chair): Tank you, Bowinn, and thank you there other mechanisms that would appropriately ensure for that response. that policing is responding sufciently to, basically, the Our last speaker on our list is Ellis. changing, the evolution, of our social culture? E. Ross: Tank you for the presentation. I read it before- B. Butterworth-Carr: Tanks for that question. I ap- hand. It was quite comprehensive. preciate that certainly, policing can be shaped by the My expertise lies on the First Nations policing. My external environment. experience is chief and council for 15 years, both as chief One of the things I identifed within the report was councillor as well as councillor. I’m the guy that had to sign very much about consultation and that mayors and coun- those reports that actually came in from our police agree- cils, particularly mayors under the contractual agreement ment that we had signed years ago. with the provincial police service…. And then, of course, In all of those years, I had never once heard that the the police boards have a responsibility to consult with the policing needs a cultural aspect — never once from my community in terms of how the community would like to people or anybody else, for that matter. Over the years, I see policing services delivered, particularly the priorities, kind of summarized it all in saying: “Actually there are two objectives and goals. components to Aboriginal issues in regards to policing.” Tere’s defnitely an expectation of consultation — Tere’s the on-reserve policing, which chief and councils again, appreciating that publicly, it can infuence policing. want more of. Tey want more fexible hours in terms of What my concern is, is that with the mayors, specifcally, weekends and afer hours. Really, you know, the community — my community, 28 Reforming the Police Act Monday, September 21, 2020 for example — accepts policing. Tey embrace them. Tey Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. We’re cer- make it part of their community, and they don’t want any- tainly happy to identify those communities with respect to thing to change except for the full force of the law to be it. applied, including consequences. I never once heard that Again, where the friction occurs is when these com- we should sofen up in it or actually have a hybrid model. munity tripartite agreements were being put in place, the Where I really heard that was on Aboriginal issues whole soul of the intent and purpose was to ensure that facing people that lived in the Lower Mainland, in urban they were supplemental resources. In many of our com- settings. Tere was no real advocacy group to actually munities, they are not. Tey took existing provincial police change what was perceived to be the negative con- positions and converted them. So the work didn’t lessen, sequences, for lack of a better word. You had political and they really are not benefting from supplemental ser- groups, advocacy groups like the AFN or the Summit. You vices. had those groups, but you had nobody…. It’s actually a no [10:00 a.m.] man’s land, because technically those people are still under the Indian Act and under the jurisdiction of the federal E. Ross: Can I follow up with what you just said? In government. Tere’s a grey area in regards to the provin- terms of the complaints for the CETAs, are the complaints cial government versus the federal government. really based around that they’re not adequate, that they’re I don’t see how we fx the perception of Aboriginal not servicing what the community needs in terms of poli- issues as related to racism incidents as a one-size-fts-all cing, versus, say, that you’re not getting racist complaints when it’s actually…. Tere are diferent layers of complex- for the RCMP coming onto reserve? It’s actually: “We want ities when you are talking about issues facing Aboriginals. more of it.” Is that what you’re seeing? I’ve seen the self-governing policing models. I’ve seen the partnerships. I’ve seen all the RCMP coming into the B. Butterworth-Carr: What we’re defnitely seeing is reserves under agreement with the chief and council. So that there are complaints in relation to the service that’s how does the policing…? How do they diferentiate being provided, and there are complaints specifcally between all these diferent issues in regards to Aboriginal related to the detachment commander or the people that issues in B.C.? are supposed to be dedicated to the community tripartite agreements. Tey’re either not providing the service, or B. Butterworth-Carr: Tat’s a very complex question. they’re not taking into consideration the priority and goals What I would say to you is that through the course of that have been let out. my presentation what I was really trying to drive home is that all services pertaining to our Indigenous communit- E. Ross: Perfect. Tanks. ies across this province need to be relevant and refective of what community you’re looking at. N. Simons (Chair): Tank you, Ellis. As you have identifed, there is a very big gap in relation Tank you, Dr. Butterworth-Carr. to services provided within our urban Aboriginal and Tat is the end of my speakers list. Te information we Indigenous communities, right? By way of example, got is really appreciated. Looking to committee members although there are certainly liaison ofcers as well as oth- for any further comment. ers that are working, whether it’s with the friendship What we need to do now is…. If I could ask the commit- centres and so forth, from policing services, we do not tee members to just stay around while I thank the assist- have a space, by way of example, under the First Nations ant deputy minister and the deputy minister, as well as the policing policy which addresses that. It doesn’t provide other ofcials who are known collectively as ministry of- services outside of the service provider. cials, for being here and for helping us with our important Currently in Surrey, it’s the RCMP until it transitions to work. Tank you, all, for being here and for the presenta- Surrey police service. It’s the same with Vancouver police tion. We will sit quietly as we watch you depart, but thank service. Tey’re expected to create those relationships and, you very much for being here. again, work with the community to be responsive to their Committee members, please stand by. It looks to me like needs. What I’m suggesting is that there’s further space to, we have committee members only here. As you probably in fact, ensure that communities in our large urban centres have seen…. have the ability to set goals and priorities and objectives, similarly as our First Nation communities that have CTAs. K. Riarh (Clerk to the Committee): Nicholas, can we On the CTA note, I also want to highlight that not call a recess? every community is satisfed with the current response that they’re receiving from their communities. Tere’s a N. Simons (Chair): We can call a recess. Let’s call a variety of communities that have been very vocal, not only recess. to myself as the director of police services, but certainly communicated that to Mr. Farnworth in his capacity as Te committee recessed from 10:02 a.m. to 10:04 a.m. Monday, September 21, 2020 Reforming the Police Act 29

[N. Simons in the chair.] N. Simons (Chair): Tank you very much, committee members. All the best to you all. N. Simons (Chair): Due to the circumstances in which we fnd ourselves, I will seek a motion to adjourn this com- Te committee adjourned at 10:04 a.m. mittee.

Motion approved.

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