Fifth Session- Thirty-Sixth Legislature

of the

Legislative Assembly of Manitoba

DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS

Official Report (Hansard)

Published under the authority of The Honourable Louise M. Dacquay Speaker

Vol. XLIX No.7 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, Apri114, 1999 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Sixth Legislature

Member Constituency Political Affiliation

ASHTON, Steve Thompson N.D.P. BARREIT,Becky Wellington N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise, Hon. Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary Concordia N.D.P. DOWNEY,James Arthur-Virden P.C. DRIEDGER, Albert Steinbach P.C. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry,Hon. Lakeside P.C. EVANS, Clif Interlake N.D.P. EVANS, Leonard S. Brandon East N.D.P. FAURSCHOU, David Portage Ia Prairie P.C. FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo P.C. FINDLAY, Glen Springfield P.C. FRIESEN,Jean Wolseley N.D.P. GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. Minnedosa P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES,George Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KOWALSKI, Gary The Maples Lib. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord St. Johns N.D.P. MALOWAY,Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McALPINE, Gerry Sturgeon Creek P.C. McCRAE,James, Hon. Brandon West P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane Osborne N.D.P. MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon. Assiniboia P.C. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn St. James N.D.P. MITCHELSON,Bonnie, Hon. River East P.C. NEWMAN, David, Hon. Riel P.C. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PITURA, Frank, Hon. Morris P.C. PRAZNIK,Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet P.C. RADCLIFFE, Mike, Hon. River Heights P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER,Jack, Hon. Niakwa P.C. RENDER, Shirley, Hon. St. Vital P.C. ROBINSON, Eric Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Gladstone P.C. SALE, Tim Crescent wood N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Broadway N.D.P. STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. Kirkfield Park P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin N.D.P. SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye P.C. TOEWS, Vic, Hon. Rossmere P.C. TWEED, Mervin,Hon. Turtle Mountain P.C. VODREY, Rosemary, Hon. Fort Garry P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River N.D.P. Vacant St. Boniface 26 1

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Wednesday, Apri114, 1999

The House met at 1:30 p.m. constituency of the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux). PRAYERS And, five Grade 9 students from Chapman School with the Crossroads Program under the ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS direction of Mr. Rick House. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable TABLING OF REPORTS First Minister (Mr. Filmon).

Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Family And, 50 journalism students fr om Red River Services): Madam Speaker, I have the pleasure College under the direction of Mr. Duncan of tabling the Annual Report for 19 97-98 for the McMonagle. This school is located in the Children and Youth Secretariat, and the Annual constituency of the honourable member for Report for 1997-98 fo r the Department of Wellington (Ms. Barrett). Family Services.

* (1335) INTRODUCTION OF BILLS And, eleven Grades 6 to 8 students from Bill16-The Court of Queen's Bench Small Rock Lake School under the direction of Mr. Claims Practices Amendment and Parental Charles Friesen. This school is located in the Responsibility Amendment Act constituency of the honourable Minister of Industry, Trade and Tourism (Mr. Tweed). Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I move, On behalf of all honourable members, seconded by the Minister of Natural Resources welcome you this afternoon. (Mr. Cummings), that leave be given to introduce Bill 16, The Court of Queen's Bench ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Small Claims Practi ce s Amendment and Parental Responsibility Amendment Act (Loi modifiant Health Care System Ia Loi sur le recouvrement des petites cr eances a Frozen/Cafeteria Food Ia Cour du Bane de Ia Reine et Ia Loi sur Ia responsabilite parentale ), and that the same be Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): now received and read a first time. Madam Speaker, to the former minister responsible for the Treasury Board and the Motion agreed to. Deputy Premier and Minister of Health, who undoubtedly was involved in the decision to Introduction of Guests proceed with this new frozen food in many of our health care fa cilities. I was puzzled by his Madam Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I am answers yesterday in the House based on the pleased firstly to introduce to the House Megan experience that I had witnessed in my own Pauls, Hanover School Division, who has also community and other communities. For been selected to serve as a page at this session. example, at Concordia Hospital it appears to me Welcome, Megan. that the cafeteria of the hospital is still open and the staff of the hospital have the option of eating In the public gallery this afternoon, we have the food at the cafeteria, and the patients are twenty-four Grade 6 students from Meadows given frozen food from another site. In other West School under the direction of Mr. Ed words, there are two sites, not the one central Yaworski. This school is located in the site that the minister talked about. Can the 262 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April l4, 1999 minister confirm that that is m fa ct what has review the whole issue of the contracts and the happened? business plans.

Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): When he talks about the quality of fo od, I First of all, Madam Speaker, the objective will cite him one example of a survey recently throughout all of this change in terms of food done by Victoria General Hospital during the services being provided to our hospitals is being week of March 28 to April 3, just a couple of done in conjunction with the nine hospitals weeks ago-found that about 80 percent of the themselves. As we all know, they own the patients related the fo od as good or excellent. Urban Shared Services Corporation. Certainly The last survey, which was done before the the No. 1 objective is to provide quality, Urban Shared Services took over the fo od nutritional food fo r the patients in our health services, fo und about a 65 percent approval rate. care facilities and as well to do that as efficiently So, by continually working at the system, and effectively as possible. In terms of the main Madam Speaker, the whole objective is to provision of the food services, the majority in continue to improve the quality of food and to the main provision is being done through one provide quality fo od to the patients in our health centralized fo od service commissary that I care fa cilities. believe the capital cost was approximately $20 million. * (1340)

Mr. Doer: Madam Speaker, the minister did not Frozen Food-War Veterans answer the question. He has not tabled the business plan; he has not tabled the contract. He Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): is fo llowing on the similar vein of the fo rmer Madam Speaker, we have to assume that after Minister of Health, who did not table the asking the minister twice the same question, he contract, did not table the business plan, and does not have an answer, and what we hear in - withholding information on the cost per meal. northeast Winnipeg and what we hear in other We know the quality of food is deficient from quadrants of the city is correct. The staff eat the the previous system from patients, and I would fo od fr om the conventional kitchens and the like to ask the minister: are the staff eating food conventional cafeteria, and the patients are from one set of kitchens in the cafeteria, served the fo od fr om the Filmon frozen fo od diffe rent food than the food that is being served experiment. to the patients? This government is still continuing to cover Mr. Stefanson: Well, again, Madam Speaker, up all the contracts they have signed instead of the member refers to the contract and the making them public. It is the taxpayers that are business plan. He asked that question yesterday responsible to this Chamber, that pay fo r the in this House. There is more than one contract; hospital budgets through the Department of there are a number of contracts that are in place, Health, through this Legislature, through contracts between the health care facilities and whatever bureaucracy this government has Urban Shared Services, contracts between Urban created, whatever authority they have created in Shared Services and the company that is the last couple of months over to the hospitals. providing the services. This minister should start taking responsibility, and this Legislature should get the contracts. I did undertake to him yesterday to review all of those issues with the Urban Shared The president of the Royal Canadian Legion Services Corporation with a view to releasing has stated that they have condemned the whatever can be released. As he knows, mistreatment of veterans, and they have asked sometimes there are preclusions because of this government to realize this mistake and third-party confidentiality and other issues. He return to the normal way of fe eding our war has been in government, although it was a long veterans. What does the minister have to say to - time ago, but he knows that fu ll well, that the president of the Royal Canadian Legion and sometimes there are, but we did undertake to the war veterans who want to go back to home- April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 263 cooked meals in the cafeterias rather than the overcrowded, and is underperforming Filmon frozen food that we have from this significantly in terms of meals assembled, and government? will he now table the actual capital and current operating costs of that facility? Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): Well, again, Madam Speaker, on the whole issue Hon. Eric Stefanson (Minister of Health): ofthe release of the contracts which the member Madam Speaker, again, I think I indicated to the referred to, I have indicated to him a willingness same member yesterday, let us look at this issue, to look at that issue with a view to releasing and let us look at the objective of the centralized what can be released, certainly in terms of food services change to the Urban Shared looking to apply the same rules to those Services Corporation, which is the nine contracts as apply to contracts entered into by hospitals. They are on both sides of the issue. the government of Manitoba, even though they They are providing the service to themselves. are entered into by the Urban Shared Services So the objectives throughout that are to provide Corporation. So I have indicated a willingness quality fo od, provide nutritional fo od, to do it as to look at that entire issue. efficiently and effectively as possible.

When it comes to the quality of fo od, I have To give him one example when it comes to given him one example of a survey done at the capital cost-as I have indicated the capital Victoria. I know surveys are being done at all of cost of this one centralized facility is our health care facilities that have the new fo od approximately $20 million. The capital cost of services, and I know that the quality of food, the making improvements to all nine hospitals, I am rating by the patients, continues to improve. As told, would have been in the range of at least $40 well, at Deer Lodge Centre some changes were million. So right there alone on the capital cost made in terms of giving some options in terms of side of the equation there is a savings in terms of the provision of those foods. Again, I am told the capital cost, the investment that would be that that is something that is being well received required to upgrade the kitchen facilities and by the patients. maintain the kitchen facilities at appropriate standards. So certainly the objective of the Urban Shared Services Corporation is to continue to As well, by providing services from one work at providing quality food to the patients, to central location, there are the opportunities fo r make sure it is nutritional and to be sure that it is the economies of scale and improved done as efficiently and effectively as possible, efficiencies, and that certainly will be and is the that resources that can be saved in that area can long-term objective of Urban Shared Services be dedicated to other needs in our health care Corporation. system. Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, spokespersons fo r Health Care System the Health Sciences Centre dispute the minister's Frozen Food-Operating Costs words: The costs were far less than he has ever put on the table. Mr. Tim Sale (Crescentwood): Madam Speaker, in spite of his protestations, the Will the minister confirm that the minister knows that the frozen food fiasco is far renovations to the nine participating facilities over budget with millions of dollars of required by this fiasco will cost far more than is renovations needed at the Health Sciences budgeted and that in fact the renovations to HSC Centre and St. Boniface Hospital not even yet alone will cost more than was budgeted for the tendered, let alone underway, with a facility that entire nine facilities? is hopelessly overcrowded. Mr. Stefanson: The member is wrong, Madam Will the Minister of Health finally admit Speaker, certainly in terms of meeting the future that the frozen food project is over budget, that needs of our health care system. We are not just the plant itself is very overcrowded, extremely talking today. Again, I know the members 264 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 opposite take a short-term narrow view and Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation cannot look over a medium-term or a longer­ Auto Theft-Deductible Policy term period of time in terms of what is required to provide quality fo od services in the most Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): efficientand effective way. Certainly the facility Madam Speaker, in the early '70s the Public that has been put in place will meet those needs Insurance Corporation was created by the fo r many years to come. Schreyer government which has resulted in the second lowest rates in Canada and an investment of money being maintained in Manitoba. So, over the next several years, in the [interjection] If you want to talk about the absence of a centralized fa cility, all of our nine broken promise on privatization of Telephones, hospitals would have had to make significant we are more than willing to talk about your capital improvements. The amount that I have broken word. been provided with is those capital costs would have been in the range of about $40 million, and Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. that compares to a capital cost today of about $20 million. Those are the numbers. Madam Speaker: Order, please. I would like to remind all honourable members this is not a *(1345) time fo r debate. This is Question Period. Mr. Sale: Madam Speaker, will the minister The honourable Leader of the official finally do some homework and confirm that the opposition, to pose his question. fa cility now has more staff preparing 5,400 meals a day than was budgeted fo r to provide Mr. Doer: Thank you, Madam Speaker. In 8,700 meals a day? They already have 15 more 1997 the government changed the policy of the fu ll-time staff providing 5,400 meals than they Public Insurance Corporation and required the - budgeted for to provide 8,700 meals. Will he do deductible to be paid for by the victims of car some homework and report to this House? thefts. We had urged the previous minister to look at dealing with the criminals, not the Mr. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, I do not need victims, in policy. I would like to ask the any lessons on homework coming from the only Minister of the Public Insurance Corporation elected person in Manitoba who was whether she has reviewed this horrible policy reprimanded by the Monnin inquiry, and that is established by the previous minister, and has she the member fo r Crescentwood right there. He reversed that treatment to the victims of car can certainly read from the transcript if he is so thefts here in Manitoba. inclined to be interested in terms of what was said about his performance as an elected official. Hon. Linda Mcintosh (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public But, again, the objective of Urban Shared Insurance Corporation Act): A very, very Services is to provide quality food, to provide interesting question; the preamble itself could nutritional food and to do it as efficiently as they take an hour to address. I will not burden the possibly can. Certainly they are going through a House with differences in how good stewardship transitional period, which we have can make good differences. I will not talk about acknowledged over the course of the last several some of the mismanagement of Autopac and months. We have acknowledged publicly that MPI prior to this administration taking its place things are taking a little bit longer in terms of in Manitoba. I will say that the member likes to introducing the new system. That is not make comparisons, but he very seldom will necessarily bad if it means at the end of the day make comparisons to what is happening in we are going to end up with the best, most Saskatchewan where their deductible is much appropriate system in terms of meeting the higher than ours. Theirs is $700 versus our quality that we all want the patients in our $500. [interjection] On the basic. They have - hospitals to have and being sure it is done as exactly the same system, except they charge effectively as possible, Madam Speaker. their ratepayers more under the NDP in the April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 265 province next door, as they do in British promises: the incentives fo r antitheft devices, Columbia. the auto theft surveillance task fo rce, the auto theft prosecutor, resources from the $2-million We have, Madam Speaker, been able to save grant from the City of Winnipeg Police Service, money, particularly where auto theft is the young offender auto theft work program? concerned, some $2.4 million this year alone in What happened to those? My question to the premium savings fo r ratepayers because of the Acting Premier is: why should Manitobans now things we have done with Autopac this year. trust this government when it promises anything? Mr. Doer: A stolen car represents a loss of property to a family or an individual. It Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and represents much higher costs now with the Attorney General): Madam Speaker, I was Public Insurance Corporation, and it also very interested in hearing the comments of the represents a danger to other members of our Minister responsible fo r MPI, where it is clearly community because of this car that is stolen in indicated that the policies that have been the hands of somebody that cannot be trusted on implemented by this government are having a the roads. We believe, and I think all members very positive effe ct on the reduction of auto of this Chamber believe, that all efforts of the theft, 9 percent in this last year. If we look public through their agencies and through this March over March, minus 23 percent, it is in fact Legislature should be fo cused in on the criminal attributable to many of the programs that we not on the victim. I would like to ask the have brought in. minister: will she reverse this policy of having the deductible paid by the victim? Let us fo cus One of the examples was brought forward in in on the real problem, and that is the alleged the Young Offenders Act hearings that we criminals who commit the act. recently conducted where a mother had explained that she had gone with her young son Mrs. Mcintosh: Madam Speaker, we have a to get the licence and yet could not get the number of programs that we co-operate in licence because he had created some type of partnership with the community regarding auto crime affecting the ratepayers of Manitoba in theft. We have last year some $600,000 that was terms of their Autopac, and he had to pay that. shared with the Winnipeg police, resulting in a 9 In fact, I understand fr om MPI that MPI now percent decrease in auto theft, by the way, this gets $9 million on a subrogated basis, on an year. In fact, if you take a look at March this annual basis, because of these proactive year versus March last year, we are down 23 programs that our governmenthas implemented. percent in auto theftlargely because of measures of partnership and proactive things that have Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation been done through combatting auto theft strategy Auto Theft-Deductible Policy and other measures put in place by MPl. Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): My * (1350) question is to the Acting Premier. Would he explain to people like Lois and Brian Campbell, Auto TheftReduction Programs who came down to this Legislature here today to Implementation tell this government that on their $650 vehicle they had to pay a $500 deductible when their car Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Madam was stolen, even though it was locked, parked in Speaker, my question is to the Acting Premier. a parking lot under a light, would he explain to Five promises were made during the last election them why this government has broken five campaign to Manitobans to deal with what was promises on auto theft when we are the auto then and still is an epidemic of auto theft-by the theft capital of Canada and people are suffering way, a 210 percent increase since 1991. A 9 the way they are? percent decrease does not touch that kind of problem that Manitobans are having to deal Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and with. But whatever happened to those five Attorney General): Madam Speaker, not only 266 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 have we not broken those promises, we have * (1355) carried those promises out. Point of Order The other one relates to the auto theft unit that the Department of Justice was very proud to Mr. Dave Chomiak (Kildonan): Madam partner with MPI and the city of Winnipeg Speaker, I believe Beauchesne's indicates that police. MPI transfers $600,000 to the Winnipeg answers should be brief and to the point and city police fo r an auto theft unit to in fa ct deal should deal with the subject matter. The with auto crime, and that, in fa ct, is a very, very minister has the option, as he has chosen, not to important aspect of reducing crime that we answer the question and try to obfuscate. We implemented in this last year. saw that from the Minister of Health when he blamed and went after and attacked individuals. Also, the point that needs to be made is that Now the minister is going back to an incident Justice co-operates with MPI by dedicating a that occurred a year ago. Perhaps he is Crown attorney. In fact, a Crown attorney has embarrassed about it, but he can deal with that in been seconded to MPI from the Crown's office another fo rum. I ask you to call him to order to to assist fo r the prosecution of special cases, deal with the question asked or not to deal with especially organized crime, that deal with chop it but to continue to go on, abuse this Question shops and the like that cause a tremendous Period, and Beauchesne's makes it very clear burden on our ratepayers. I am very pleased to that the minister ought to deal with the subject see that not only Justice has been active in this matter as discussed. respect, but MPI has been doing an excellent job. Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Justice, on the same point of order. Auto Theft Reduction Programs Implementation Mr. Toews: Well, Madam Speaker, I think it is - very important to explain to you in making your Mr. Gord Mackintosh (St. Johns): Well, then, rulings that it is important that perhaps one of my question to the Minister of Justice: can he the reasons why the member is not possibly explain to Manitobans how this understanding my answers is that he simply does government has been effective in dealing with not listen, and I think that is relevant to the auto theft when there are 30 vehicles a day questions that are being placed. roughly getting stolen in this province and when promise after promise after promise after Madam Speaker: Order, please. On the point promise made by the government, promises that of order raised by the honourable member fo r it said would reduce auto theft, have been Kildonan, I would agree that the honourable trashed? Explain that to Manitobans. member did have a point of order. I would ask the minister to keep his answer as brief as Hon. Vic Toews (Minister of Justice and possible and deal with the question raised. Attorney General): Madam Speaker, is it not typical of the member fo r St. Johns to stand up Centra Gas Purchase and say we have broken promises but does not Purpose outline any of these promises. I have attempted very specifically to answer each and every Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam accusation that he has made, and again, the Speaker, my question is fo r the Minister member is wrong in making these assertions. It responsible fo r Manitoba Hydro. Again we see is just like the other day when he said to the an expenditure, as I have indicated, of a half press: I am surprised to hear that the judges had billion dollars-plus authorized through this rejected a Domestic Violence Court. He was particular government, yet this government has surprised when, in fact, a year ago I told him the still not indicated to this Chamber why it made answer in Question Period. I gave him the that particular purchase, why it fe lt that purchase answer in committee. Suddenly he is surprised. was necessary. So I am going to give a This is a member who simply does not listen. wonderful, easy question to the Minister of April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 267

Hydro in hopes that he will be able to give a people on both sides and the professional very specificanswer. advisers on both sides they both came to a deal which they thought was in the best interests of What is the primary purpose for the each of the utilities. It was seen to be a win-win purchase of Centra Gas? transaction. I think, with the passage of time, Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with the honourable member for Inkster will probably the administration of The Manitoba Hydro see the light as well and be able to, when all of Act): Madam Speaker, it was a combination of the information is released-it will be released in a variety of reasons that caused this particular due course-come to the same conclusion that transaction to get the support of the government, Hydro did and the governmentof the province of the final terms of it, of course, still to be Manitoba. finalized. The approach, having been made by the West Coast president to Manitoba Hydro, the Government Intention Manitoba Hydro management team and advisers scrutinized very carefully all of the opportunities Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam that were inherent in this particular opportunity, Speaker, can the minister indicate specifically: and they concluded, on the basis of examining is there any indication from this government all of the implications, that this would be in the towards rural Manitobans that by purchasing best interests of the owners of Manitoba Hydro, Centra Gas it is the government's intentions to the people of Manitoba. One of the primary update and modernize the infrastructure in rural benefits from the integration of the two utilities Manitoba? Is that the primary reason why they would be efficiencieswould result in $12 million bought Centra Gas? a year, estimated, in terms of savings to the operation. In addition to that, and probably most Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with significantly, it makes the Manitoba combined the administration of The Manitoba Hydro utility a competitive force in the North American Act): Madam Speaker, that is a legitimate kind marketplace. of concern expressed by the honourable member for Inkster, and the quality of the decisions that Mr. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I ask the are going to be made by the integrated utility minister of Hydro. He now indicates to the will probably depend on the degree to which House that Centra Gas is the one that government does not intervene in good business approached the government in order to be decisions fo r that corporation. At the moment, bought out. however, the public is quite aware in rural Manitoba at least that a great deal of Can the minister indicate to this House: was subsidization goes into the development of a Centra Gas experiencing any problems? Why distribution infrastructure for natural gas, both was it that the government fe lt obligated then to fe deral and provincial money. Now, with an go ahead and purchase it without any sort of a integrated utility, it is going to be possible to detailed plan fo r the future of that particular look at what is in the public interest in the long­ company in the province of Manitoba? term big picture with both natural gas and hydro transmission being options. Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, it would be presumptuous and inappropriate for me to But one thing is probable. It makes no sense suggest why Michael Phelps, representing West to have a duplicated infrastructure where it Coast transmission, the owner of Centra, would would be an overall waste of limited resources in approach Manitoba Hydro with a view to the province. It would have to be made on presumably trying to benefit to the maximum the business cases in each situation. shareholders ofWestcoast Energy. Capital Investment Spending * (1400) Decline

What we do know is that through a process Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam of negotiation by the experienced business Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of 268 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

Finance. In past budget documents this that I am sure he celebrates along with us, is government has spoken in glowing terms about $112 million. He can see the private sector increases in capital investment spending, and I development in Brandon with a number of agree. Capital investment spending is very vital businesses and hotels opening. Certainly the in terms of future economic growth. But now economy looks very rosy in Brandon. Statistics Canada has fo recast a major decline in total capital spending-that is private and public Mr. Leonard Evans The honourable minister combined-for Manitoba fo r 1999, that is a reminds me of the fa ct that we did, the Schreyer decline of 9.3 percent, ranking Manitoba the government did expand the Brandon boundary second lowest in the country, nine out of 10. so that all these developments are truly in the city of Brandon, and I am very pleased about I would like to ask the minister if he could that. explain to this House why Manitoba is expected to have such a drastic decline in total capital Madam Speaker: Order, please. The spending investment, and is this an indication of honourable member, to pose his final a possible slowdown in the Manitoba economy supplementary question. in the year ahead. Manufacturing Sector Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Finance): Madam Speaker, I would have Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Again, thought perhaps the fo rmer minister, the member Madam Speaker, I ask the minister: will he fo r Brandon East, would like to celebrate the acknowledge that in the manufacturing sector, a many good things that are happening across the 22 percent decline is now forecast by Stats province. Manitoba has probably the most Canada fo r 1999. Is this not a serious portent of diversified economy of all the western what is going to happen? I am not talking about provinces, and if he takes a look at a number of the past. What about Manitoba in 1999 and the the economic indicators, Manitoba is poised to year 2000? do very well into the next year. Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of Private Sector Finance): Madam Speaker, I would hope that perhaps the member would take a little Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Madam leadership within his caucus. I know the Leader Speaker, I had asked the question about total of the Opposition (Mr. Doer) and the member capital spending, but in terms of private capital fo r Crescentwood (Mr. Sale) are often talking spending, has the minister had any direct doom and gloom and how terrible things are in indication from the private sector about private this province. I would simply point out that investment spending intentions fo r 1999, manufacturing shipments were up 7.1 percent in because Statistics Canada is forecasting a major 1998 versus 3. 1 percent fo r Canada; fo reign drop of 11.9 percent in private capital spending exports were up 6.2 percent, the ninth in 1999, again ranking Manitoba nine out of 10 consecutive annual increase. Certainly the provinces. economy in Manitoba is recognized by many of the fo recasters as doing very well. I would urge Hon. Harold Gilleshammer (Minister of the member fo r Brandon East to get a better Finance): Madam Speaker, in my first answer I understanding of those issues. urged the member to take a look at all of the economic indicators, but if he wants to maybe Centra Gas Purchase zero in on development, I would suggest even in Legal Representation Brandon, if he has an opportunity to visit out there sometime soon, that he look at the many Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam hundreds of millions of dollars that have gone Speaker, my question is fo r the Minister responsible fo r Manitoba Hydro. Yesterday the into building in Brandon. The Simplot - expansion, fo r instance, was over $200 million. minister claimed that the lawyer representing The Maple Leaf expansion, the new plant there Westcoast Energy was not also representing April 1 4, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 269

Manitoba Hydro. I would like to table a letter do not support Manitoba Hydro asking fo r sent by James Foran to the PUB on April 12, in private hearings. To the extent they are asking which he said he was asked to fo rward this letter specific things of the Public Utilities Board, that on behalf of Westcoast Energy and Manitoba was their business decision to make. To the Hydro. extent that I disagree with that, that is what I am entitled to do as a minister of the Crown. I say Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the fo r the record, I do not believe that Manitoba minister: has the minister read the Jetter, and if Hydro should be asking for private hearings if so what is his explanation as to why Manitoba indeed they did. Hydro would be using the same lawyer as Centra Gas prior to the conclusion of negotiations over Mr. Maloway: Madam Speaker, then to the the sale of Centra Gas to Manitoba Hydro? same minister: will this minister now order Manitoba Hydro to reverse its position and Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with request public hearings? the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): Madam Speaker, it does not sound like a Mr. Newman: Madam Speaker, you can rest very good idea to me that they would use the assured-all members of the Legislature-that this same lawyer to represent them in this important particular position of mine has been commercial transaction. Whether or not in this communicated to Manitoba Hydro, and they are particular instance there was a meeting of the well aware of it. I would expect that they will minds between some lawyer fo r Manitoba Hydro make a decision which is going to be respectful and the lawyer fo r Aikins, MacAulay about of whatever the Public Utilities Board decides in sending a letter to the Public Utilities Board, I do this matter. My expectations there are irrelevant not know. But in light of the persistence of the to this matter, but my hope is that they will member opposite on this unimportant issue, I respect the fact that the people of Manitoba are believe I will seek from Manitoba Hydro an the owners of Manitoba Hydro and I, as their explanation as to why Aikins, MacAulay and representative through the government of the Thorvaldson, through James Foran, said in the province of Manitoba, would hope that the first sentence: "I have been asked to fo rward maximum amount of information without this letter on behalf of Westcoast Energy Inc. jeopardizing the deal can be made timely and Manitoba Hydro." available to the people of Manitoba. I will find out who made the request and why the request was made, if a request was Farm Aid Program made. Application Process

Private Hearings-Manitoba Hydro Ms. Rosano Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Speaker, as farmers get ready to get back on the Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam land and begin spring seeding, they are facing Speaker, it is very surprising that the minister very serious decisions and many may not be able finds it an unimportant question. to continue. There has been an announcement of a Farm Aid Package fo r some time but the I would like to ask the minister: can the applications just got to Ag offices last week, and minister explain why he, as the Minister now we are told that it is six to eight weeks responsible fo r Manitoba Hydro, did not know before the applications can be processed after whether Manitoba Hydro was asking fo r private having filed the claim. This is putting hearings at the PUB, because it is in the letter? tremendous pressure on farmers.

* (1410) Given that the province has contributed 40 percent of the program, I would like to ask the Hon. David Newman (Minister charged with minister to tell this House why he has allowed the administration of The Manitoba Hydro this process to drag along so long, why he has Act): Madam Speaker, I can simply say that I allowed the applications to be so complicated, 270 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

why they are tied to NISA and why it is going to accounting firms-that certainly the member fo r take so long to get money to the farmers. Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans) would be familiar with-Meyers Norris, are estimating that Madam Speaker: Order, please. The minister it will cost a farmer between $400 and $925 in requested, I believe off the record, that the accounting fe es just to make the application, and honourable member fo r Swan River repeat her the farmer is not guaranteed that he will receive question, and that is entirely the- any support. So, yes, I am distressed with the program. I agree fu lly with the program that it is An Honourable Member: Can you read unacceptable. newspapers in this House? Government Input Madam Speaker: Pardon me? Ms. Rosano Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam An Honourable Member: He is reading a Speaker, is the Minister of Agriculture telling us newspaper. that his staff had no part in designing this program, that the provincial government had no Madam Speaker: -decision of the honourable input to the program when they have put 40 member fo r Swan River, and she indicated she percent of the money fo rward? That is wanted to comply. unacceptable. They should be having some input into this program . Ms. Wowchuk: Madam Speaker, given that this is a very serious matter, I will repeat the Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. question. I am asking the Minister of Agriculture why the process is taking so long. Given that the Madam Speaker: Order, please. The province contributed 40 percent to a program, honourable Minister of Agriculture was not can the minister tell this House why he has recognized and his comments are not on record, allowed the process to drag on so long that because I could not get the attention of the applications have just been received at members of the House so that indeed he could agricultural offices? It is going to take eight to put his comments on the record. I 0 weeks to have them process it, and farmers will not get their money in time to put their Hon. Harry Eons (Minister of Agriculture): crops in the ground this year. Madam Speaker, I am indebted to you fo r reminding me to proceed appropriately in the Hon. Harry Enos (Minister of Agriculture): Chamber. Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to respond to that question, and I do apologize to the member Much to my chagrin and to that of certainly fo r having been momentarily distracted. It is my senior staff members in the Department of just today that I was getting several letters, Agriculture, and I might say understandably to including official letters from the Keystone the Minister of Finance, our own Treasury Agricultural Producers organization on that very Board, we were being asked to commit a very same subject, and I am reading comments to the substantial amount of money in a Farm Aid same effect in the farm press that was Program that we had no hand in designing and in preoccupying me. its administration. It was fo r that reason that I did get the authority and support fr om my I remind the honourable member that this caucus, from my government to, as an interim program was designed and is administrated measure, introduce a recovery program that has entirely by Ottawa. I remind honourable been very well accepted by the fa rm community. members that I personally and my government Over $22 million has already flowed in that were criticized fo r being one of the last ones to program. Cash is out in time fo r seeding. We enter the program. There was a reason. We anticipated the problems in the federal program,

understood that the program had design flaws. It and I am pleased to note that this government, - had very complicated administrative fe es. I have with the support of this government, provided a letter here that one of our prominent that emergency support. April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 271

Madam Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has course, have worked with the Sikh community expired. here in Manitoba and have participated in the celebration of Khalsa and more im portantly the MEMBERS' STATEMENTS principles of Khalsa dealing with humanity, fo rgiveness, hope, love, equity and racial Interlake Regional Health Authority tolerance.

Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Madam Speaker, The history of Sikhs in Canada is one that earlier this month it was announced that the deals with challenges: the safe passage laws that Interlake Regional Health Authority received were in place and where our party fe derally accreditation from the Canadian Council on fought against those laws at the tum of the Health Services Accreditation. This makes the century and through this century. Madam Interlake Regional Health Authority the first Speaker, even up till the early '50s Sikhs did not regional health authority in Manitoba to receive have the vote in Canada. In fact, our party recognition from the fe deral health regulator that fought very hard in the late '40s for the vote in national standards are being met. The members British Columbia, the former CCF Party, to of the Interlake Regional Health Authority are a recognize that people, as members of the group with innovative ideas who are dedicated to Commonwealth, should have the vote in our finding ways to ensure that all components of country. We still have a lot of work as a the health care system best serve the people of community to deal with the strengths of our the Interlake. As part of their dedication, the community, the diversity of our community, and regional health authority chose to apply for racism in our community. This, on the accreditation earlier than most of the other celebration of the 300th anniversary of Khalsa, RHAs, while the transition process is to be sure we should rededicate ourselves to the principles that they were meeting national standards from of tolerance and the principles of understanding. the very beginning. When the regional health Thank you very much. authority system was put in place in 1997, the goal was to achieve better co-ordination of services to improve access and to allow us to Grand Rapids-Fishing Industry make the best use of our health care resources. Ms. MaryAnn Mihychuk (St. James): Madam With this announcement that the regional Speaker, many Manitobans are wondering why it health authority has received accreditation, is that this government has such an inability or Manitobans can be assured that the RHA system unwillingness to negotiate with aboriginal is working. I am sure that it will not be long people. This government is willing to spend before all regional health authorities in Manitoba over $500 million buying Centra Gas and untold receive the same recognition. So I would hundreds of millions in buying Winnipeg Hydro, commend all the members of the IRHA and the but places little priority on settling issues like the health care staff in the Interlake region on fisheries dispute at Grand Rapids. No one earning this distinction and for their continued disputes the fact that Grand Rapids Dam dedication to providing quality health care seriously damaged the fishing industry. The through the Interlake area. Thank you. government admits that the compensation to the town and fishers is due. The majority of fishers * (1420) in this province are based in northern Manitoba, and the Northern Flood treaties recognize the 300th Birthday of the Khalsa power projects in the North which gave this province the cheapest electricity in the western Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): world and damaged traditional fishery and Madam Speaker, today is April 14, the 300th hunting areas in northern Manitoba. We are told birthday of Khalsa and the celebration of Sikhs that in the 1992 settlement with the band, it only the world over and Sikhs here in Manitoba. I covered damages to river fish stocks not the had the honour of attending the flag-raising depletion of fish stocks in the lake itself where ceremony today at City Hall, and all of us, of the vast majority of fishing occurs. 272 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

Last year, when the House of Commons much better anyway we can. Thank you, fishery committee met at Grand Rapids, the Madam Speaker. seriousness of the situation was laid out. The minister responsible had been asked to meet with ORDERS OF THE DAY the parties involved and refused. This made the situation at Grand Rapids worse for the residents THRONE SPEECH DEBATE and is hurting the reputation of Manitoba Hydro (Sixth Day of Debate) across this province. Ignoring the concerns of fishers is not in the interest of anyone. If the Madam Speaker: To resume adjourned debate minister is not willing to meet with the people of on the proposed motion of the honourable Grand Rapids, then the Premier should step member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) and fo rward and set up a meeting himself. the proposed motion of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Doer) in amendment thereto. Frontier College

Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Madam Mr. George Hickes (Point Douglas): Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to make a Speaker, I would just like to extend my fe w comments on the throne speech, but I also congratulations to Frontier College on their am very pleased to be back here in the 1 OOth anniversary that they held the other night. Legislature and have the opportunity to debate It was held at the Indian and Metis Friendship and bring fo rward many of the issues that are Centre where I was very proud to attend. important to my constituency.

I can recall last fa ll when farmers were Frontier College has helped many, many facing really great difficulties and we had raised people overcome their inabilities to read and the issue and we talked about returning to the write, and I experienced that first-hand when I Legislature. Members opposite, I believe it was was the employment counsellor supervisor fo r the government House leader at that time, the the Limestone Dam. There was a volunteer from member for Brandon West (Mr. McCrae), said the Frontier College who used to volunteer their there was no reason to return to the Legislature time in the evenings, and many of the workers because there were not any important issues to that were working on that dam 12 hours a day discuss. were faithfuliy going in the evenings to take the upgrading to help enable them read and write. I * (1430) personally value that because my mother, who is 81 years old, cannot read or write, and I There certainly were important issues and remember as a young child accompanying her to there still are important issues, and in particular I the grocery stores where she had labels off soup talked today in Question Period about the farm cans to make sure that she got the right soup that prices, but certainly all the other issues that we she wanted. faced over the winter and that we still are seeing now with the long waiting lists that patients are When they had the anniversary for Frontier fac ing and the beds in hallways that we saw this College, it was also to assist the funding for Beat winter. It was a shame that the government did the Street. Beat the Street is a valuable program not think that it was important that we return to that does not look at colour, and its doors are this Legislature to talk about these important open to anyone who wants to upgrade their issues. reading and writing skills. If you walk into their offices and classrooms, you will see people from But we are finally back here, and we were all walks of life that are finally getting a chance. anticipating that the government would bring It is people and organizations like that that we as fo rward a throne speech that would offe r some citizens of Canada owe gratitude, and hopefully vision about where they were going, and it was - we will always support those kinds of programs quite disappointing when we listened to the to make one's own life and their fam ilies lives throne speech and saw that it was very vague April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 273 and had very little content and only a few new repeat my questions, I would have been able to initiatives about how they were planning to deal raise with the minister the serious concern that with the problems and the challenges that we are negative margins are not covered in this disaster fac ing here in this province. Particularly, when I program when it comes to payout but that these read through this throne speech, I have to say negative margins are used to calculate the that I was tremendously disappointed, as were fo llowing year's averages. By doing this, if you rural Manitobans across the province and are going to be rolling it into the fo llowing year's northerners, that this government chose not to average, then what we are going to be doing is even mention the word "agriculture" in their accelerating the reduction of the producers' gross budget. They have talked about a forum where margins and further reduce the payments from they are going to go out and consult with people, the program. which they did in 1993, and now they have finally realized that there is a problem out there. Madam Speaker, the other issue that has Now, in 1999, they are going to go back and been brought to my attention, and one we hear listen to the people again. But to think that a the federal Minister of Agriculture talking about government would not recognize that there is a is that this program was developed to be in serious situation and give at least some lip compliance with the international trade rules, but service to the people of rural Manitoba and the even though it was designed this way it did not fa rming community that they are recognizing fo rce the minister to link the agricultural that this is a problem is a disappointment that it assistance disaster program to NISA, nor did the is not mentioned in the throne speech. international trade rules require that the program exclude negative margins. So what we have I have to say, Madam Speaker, that I am under the current trade rules is that farmers can very concerned about the farming community. I be supported up to 70 percent of their return and am very concerned about the package that has have no problem with international trade rules. been put fo rward fo r farm aid, and I am But under this program Canadian farmers will disappointed to hear the minister say that his receive far less than this level because of the department had no role in developing this flaws in the program. What I see happening and package. I cannot believe that provinces would what we have heard is that many, many farmers completely tum over things to the federal will not qualify, and the whole purpose of the government to design a package. I just find that program, which was to get money into the quite unacceptable and hard to believe that when farmers' hands, we will in fact see very few-the you are contributing 40 percent of the cost of the numbers I have heard are somewhere in the program, you would have no part in developing range of one in eight farmers will qualify. In it. fact, although we had big announcements by the federal minister of this program, in reality, the But, Madam Speaker, there are serious people who need the help most are not going to problems with the program. The application be benefiting. fo rm is very long, and as the minister indicated in his answer to me, it is quite complicated. As I see it, Madam Speaker, and fr om what I Most people are going to have to have an have looked at, it looks as though the hog accountant to fill out the fo rms, and it is going to producers are the ones who are going to benefit be somewhere between $400 and as high as from the program the most. I think that when we $900 to have this application completed. I am looked at the number of people we have in the sure that there could have been an easier way to hog industry in Manitoba at this time, the get these applications together to ensure that the difficulties they are facing, I think the minister money went to the people who most needed it, has to also think about what role his government and that is the farming community, not into the played in promoting the expansion of the hog accountants' hands, as is going to happen now. industry and what impact the changes that we have had to single-desk selling and the move But, Madam Speaker, there are other away fr om price transparency and what impact problems with the program, and had I been able all of these have had on the hog industry in this to ask my other questions and had not had to province. I think we will be looking very 274 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 closely when this program starts to pay out There are many, many things that we can do, where the majority of the money is going to go. Madam Speaker, and we should not, as I say, As I see it right now, I think the majority of this take advantage of them. We hear many negative money is going to end up going to the people things about some of our poor people and some who are in the hog industry. of our aboriginal people, but rather than being critical let us work with them. I have taken that step, and I represent many aboriginal people. I As we look at the throne speech, one of the visit their communities on a regular basis. After reasons for the delay of our coming back to the the boundaries are changed, I will be running in Legislature was because we had the whole a constituency that has even a larger aboriginal scenario of the Monnin inquiry and the population, and I am very concerned about how investigation into vote rigging. When we finally these people will make a living and how they got that report, the government was able to come will be able to contribute to the economy of back and deliver their throne speech. But I want Manitoba. I think we have to recognize that they to take a fe w minutes and just talk briefly about were the first people here. They have been the Monnin inquiry and the whole vote-rigging through difficulties, and we have to work with scheme. Yesterday the member fo r Gladstone them. (Mr. Rocan) offered me his apologies fo r what the Conservative Party did within my constituency, and I thank him fo r that apology. Last night, I attended a dinner with the But I want to also say that I was not the victim in ambassador fr om Ukraine to Canada. We had a this whole scheme. We have to look really bit of history about how the Ukrainians came to closely at who the victim was. The victims were Canada and the part that they have played. As I the aboriginal people, who were taken advantage am of Ukrainian descent, I am very proud of the of and manipulated in this whole scheme. I role that Ukrainians have played in this province think we have to think very carefully about that. and what they have done. We have many other Those are the people who have to be apologized members of the Legislature here who are also of to. The Premier (Mr. Filmon) finally did Ukrainian descent. apologize to them. After some pressure, he agreed to do that. That is good. I am glad that We can be proud of what our people did, but he apologized to those people. we also have to be willing to help other people get back what they need and help them to play a What we have to look at-and we have to role in society. Even if some of these people, learn a lesson from this whole scenario that took the aboriginal people, do not want to take place-is that we cannot take advantage of the leading roles, our job is to ensure that they have most vulnerable people. What we have to do is proper housing, they have the opportunity to get involve them in the process, make them fe el an education and that children are properly fe d. welcome and invite them in, share their ideas Those are the kinds of things that we can do. If and work at ways that we can help the most we do those kinds of things, we will reduce the needy in this province. Our goal as legislators poverty in this province, Madam Speaker, and and government members should be to try to lift every day we can address that, it will make up the poorest of the poor. Our goal should not Manitoba a better place to live. be to try to make the rich get richer. We should be trying to help the poorest of the poor get the Madam Speaker, when I think about it, tools that they need to play a role in society, help talked about the aboriginal children, but it is all them get an education, ensure that they have of our children. All the children in this province proper health care, ensure that they have the are very important. Most parents are trying their tools to raise their children so that their children best, but many must now overcome the odds do not have to be taken away from them and with their children. Can you imagine, Manitoba they spend years looking fo r them and trying to has the highest child poverty rate, the highest bring them back into their home. teenage pregnancy rate, the highest high school -

* (1440) dropout rate. April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 275

Madam Speaker, we also have the highest Filmon) himself. Well, can you imagine, this rate of children in care, and, not surprisingly, we government has been in place fo r 11 years now, also have the highest increase in violent youth and now they are going to implement a round crime since 1990, and we have to question, is table to start talking about child poverty-long this the best we can do for our children, and overdue, long overdue and something that what does it mean for the future well-being of should have been addressed much before this. the province? If we cannot offe r better for our children, then we know that we are going to be Madam Speaker, the issue of education and in trouble down the road. So those are the things what is happening in our schools and the we have to think about, but when you look at cutbacks that we have seen in education are this government's record on what they have done very, very serious. Although the government when it comes to our young children, it is not likes to sing a good line, saying that they have very good. increased the funding for education, when you look at the real dollars that are going into Our child care system has been destabilized, education, there has been a serious decline. That and the government has cut public school is why we are seeing children using books that funding by $500 per pupil. Children's welfare are outdated, we are seeing teachers having no allowance has been cut. Children who have preparation time, and we are seeing a reduction been raped or molested are on waiting lists in in the number of courses that are offered for our courts for up to two years at a time. I think children. In the rural area, that is quite serious it is time that we put our children first, that we because in the smaller schools every time you invest in our children. We cannot continue with cut a teacher you reduce furtherthe opportunities the path we are on under the Filmon for those children to get the tools that they need government, because if we continue on this path to prepare themselves and take up the challenges of neglecting our children, we are going to pay that await them. fo r it dearly down the road. Of course, Madam Speaker, when we talk So, Madam Speaker, I would suggest that it about schools, one of the topics that always is very important that we take this opportunity to comes up is school taxes. Of course, nobody invest in our children and ensure that they have likes to pay taxes and nobody likes to see their the tools and are prepared to carry on and build a school taxes go up, but school divisions have not healthy economy in this province when their tum had very much choice because school divisions comes along. But, of course, we all know that and trustees are committed to education. When there are poor people. I think that we have to the government reduces their funding, they only listen to some of these poor people and some of have one avenue to get extra money, and that is the challenges they face. As I said, I represent from the property tax. So the government says, many, many poor people. When others have oh, we have not cut funding, but the school asked young people what it means to be poor, boards have to pass the costs on somewhere, so they talk about being teased fo r the way they are it ends up on taxes. The school boards become dressed, young children who pretend they have the bad guys in the middle of it, but they are the forgotten their lunch when they have no food, ones who are trying to keep the systems going in young children who fe el ashamed because their spite of the fact that the government continues to parents have no work. Most of all, in a rural cut back on the funding for education. area, many times it is young children who cannot go on field trips because their families cannot afford it. One of the major issues that I have a concern with is certainly this government's So, Madam Speaker, one of the things that commitment and record on health care. When has been very neglected in this throne speech, you look at the government's promises, they there is no vision of what this province plans to certainly have not been kept. In 1995, the do other than saying that child poverty will be government promised to spend $600 million on addressed by a round table of Healthy badly needed personal care homes to ease Communities to be Jed by the Premier (Mr. pressures on hospitals, and this promise was 276 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 trashed just a few months later and the facilities be looking at this as an opportunity to enhance were not built. services in the Swan River area because we serve a very large area and we should be treated In my constituency, this government had a as a regional hospital. promise to do renovations to the Swan River Hospital in 1992, and it was supposed to be So, Madam Speaker, there are some serious major renovations. I remember the then questions with regard to the health care facility. Minister of Health, the member fo r Brandon The other health care fac ility in the Swan River West (Mr. McCrae), being in Swan River when constituency is the hospital in Winnipegosis. we opened the personal care home and talking Here we have a different problem, and that is a about the renovations to the new facility. Well, shortage of doctors. The committee at very shortly after that, the picture came off the Winnipegosis has long been trying to get another wall, and the renovations did not happen. Now doctor to Winnipegosis and were quite frustrated we have very serious problems in Swan River, when the government came up with the policy where the hospital has been closed due a mould that they have to pay $3,000 before the problem, and it is going to be a real government will help them find a doctor. In the inconvenience to the people of the valley fo r the meantime, they have told the people at next fe w years as the situation is resolved. Winnipegosis that they can renovate their fac ility so that other services can be provided I want to give credit to the local there, but they cannot renovate the facility until administration at the hospital and the staff and they have fo und a doctor. So the government is the board fo r the tremendous job that they have taking money fr om them to find a doctor but will done over the last little while finding alternate not allow them money to allow the renovations facilities and ensuring that we can continue to to go ahead. It is quite fo olish and, I think, one provide health care service in the Swan River that the government could resolve quite easily if Valley. they choose to.

I was very pleased yesterday when the The long waiting lists are having an impact minister gave me his assurance that parents and on people in my constituency as well. I had a families would not have to bear the additional phone call from someone just yesterday who has transportation costs that are going to be involved indicated that he is waiting fo r a hip in this. They would not be out of pocket replacement, can hardly walk but will probably additional money, but I must say I was have to wait fo r about another year because the absolutely appalled to hear the minister say that waiting lists for hip replacements are so long. they would not consider waiving the 20 percent When we look at this throne speech, I was quite to build a new facility when the new fac ility is amazed at the end of it where the government not coming at the request of the community. goes through this whole series of "My This new fac ility in all likelihood is having to be government knows it must, and it will," do built because of neglect in repairs in the fac ility, various things. For example: My government and now to say that the community is going to knows that it must, and it will, take action in have to bear the cost of that, raise the money for making our neighbourhoods safer. My that 20 percent, is just quite amazing and quite government knows it must, and it will, continue disappointing in this government to say that. to make our health care system accessible and responsive. * (1450)

I am also very concerned, Madam Speaker, Well, I ask you, Madam Speaker, where has that the government is going to use this as an this government been? They have been the excuse to downgrade the services. We the government for 11 years and all of a sudden they people of the Swan River Valley will be recognize that they know and they must and they watching very closely and will be looking for a will do all of these things. What have they been commitment from this government that they will doing till now? They have not been addressing not be reducing services, that they, in fact, will the concernsof Manitobans very well. April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 277

I want to just raise another issue. We have make good on the promises of the last decade, been having this discussion on Centra Gas and I including promises: we have to make sure that could hear the member fo r Arthur-Virden (Mr. the AJI report is implemented; we have to be Downey) talking about bringing Centra Gas to sure that issues of health care are addressed. I the Swan River Valley. Well, I want to remind think that there are ways to work in partnership. him not to bother making that a promise in this We do not have to close the doors. election, because they made it in the last election and could not deliver on it. They could not I look at the community of Pine Creek deliver on that promise and the people in the where they presently have just built a nursing Swan River Valley have a very aggressive station on the reserve. I think by working committee. They are now working with the together with them, there are surrounding province of Saskatchewan to try to get natural communities that perhaps with a little bit of gas. [interjection] negotiation that services could be provided at that nursing station to other people who are in The member from Arthur-Virden says I Duck Bay and in Camperville, very close to the cannot deliver. He has to remember that it was nursing station. With that kind of co-operation, his government that made the promise and his things can certainly happen. government that has broken the promise, because they are not delivering and natural gas I want to just mention briefly a couple of has not been expanded into the Swan River other issues. One of them I want to say that has Valley as they had promised it would. happened, one of the real challenges that we are facing is transportation and railway services and I want to also raise a couple of other issues the abandonment of rail lines. I hope that the that were not mentioned in the throne speech but government would recognize this as a serious I think that should be mentioned. The problem and help communities in their efforts to government made no mention of our natural save lines. For example, the Cowan subline, a resources and how they are managed. The deal has been signed with CN, and that line will government surely got egg on their face on how be operating, hopefully. There are other lines they have handled the whole issue of elk capture, that will be required to maintain an and, thank goodness, they have now listened to infrastructure, but changes have to be made to the pressure of the community and have agreed the Canada Transportation Act. It will take not to do further capturing. I hope that the leadership on the part of the government. minister will agree. I hope the minister will listen. He said that there will be no more capturing in the Swan River Valley. I hope that I have certainly not heard much from the he will live up to that word and, in fact, we will Minister of Transportation on the government not see any more capturing of elk anywhere and side of the House moving towards improving that he will look at some of the and calling fo r changes to the Canada recommendations that have been put fo rward by Transportation Act to ensure the short lines can the people of the Swan River Valley for many, operate. There is much more work to be done in many years on how the elk problem can be that area, and governments have a role to play in addressed. There certainly are other ways to talking to grain companies to see what their handle this issue. plans are. We have to look at ways to ensure that grain companies continue to purchase grain There are many things that we have to do in the rural areas and that all the elevators are not and things that can be done much better than the closed down and have us move towards a main Conservatives have done over the past 11 years. line system where most elevators will be closed I have talked about the things that have in the rural areas. Those are the kinds of happened within the health care system. I have challenges we are facing that this government talked about the things that have happened in the has not addressed. I look forward to having the education system and certainly in what we have opportunity to discuss these further when we get seen with our children. We have to work at to the budget speech, and I look fo rward to building new partnerships with aboriginals that seeing what kind of commitments the 278 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

government is prepared to make to ensure that In closing, I must say that this throne speech we cancontinue to have a healthy lifestyle in the is certainly a very weak document, one that rural communities. appears to be a government that is tired of being government, a government that has lost their We are going to be dealing with legislation vision, a government that has just very fe w with boundaries, and lots of people talk about initiatives to put on the agenda, and one that parts of their constituency that is going to be shows that they recognize the error of their leaving, they will no longer be representing. ways, because they look at all the things that The Swan River constituency does change, but it they recognize that they should have done better, changes with additions. There is no part of it and now they are trying to make a commitment being taken away. The change in the Swan that they will be doing it better, but in fact it is River constituency will not be the same that time fo r this government to say that they are out other constituencies are facing. of ideas and give an opportunity fo r another party to take over at the reigns of this province. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, before I conclude I would like to take this opportunity to welcome the pages to the Legislature. I hope that they find * (1500) this to be a wonderful experience and a learning experience and hope that we will treat you with Mr. James Downey (Arthur-Virden): I rise to respect and you can learn to appreciate the put some comments on the record, Madam atmosphere here in the House. I want to also Speaker, and this may or it may not be my last welcome the new Sergeant-at-Arms and hope he opportunity to speak in this great place. I rise as enjoys his role here in the House. an extremely proud Canadian and a proud Manitoban. I want to also recognize the past member fo r St. Boniface (Mr. Gaudry) and offe r my I want to say as well that every time I enter condolences to his fam ily and say indeed that we this place, whether it is this Chamber, whether it will miss him here in the Legislature. He is walking up the grand staircase, or whether it is brought a certain quality that will be hard to driving in off of Broadway, it gives me a replace, and I want to extend my condolences. tremendous sense of pride, not only because it is a great place and a magnificent building, but it is Of course, Madam Speaker, one of the the very heart and soul of what our democratic changes that we will be seeing in the next system is all about. I say to each and every Legislature is one that we have been calling fo r member of this Assembly, regardless of fo r a long time. That of course is an elected whatever group is trying to bombard or trying to Speaker, one that should have been brought in fo rce entry, they do a disservice to this beautiful some time ago, but one that we look fo rward to. place and to the meaning of what this democratic So that was one of the announcements that we debating place is all about. thought was favourable in the throne speech, one that we fe el should have been brought in a long time ago, and look fo rward to that process when So I challenge each member, regardless of we come back to this Legislature. Not their political stripe, to maintain the sanctity of everybody will be coming back to the this place, to maintain this place as a place Legislature. Some have chosen to retire and where peaceful debate, laws and rules can be some will not come back for other reasons. So I debated, and the overall policies fo r the interests would like to take this opportunity to say to of Manitobans and Canada can be truly done so those people who have chosen to leave after the without fe ar or without favour. I mean that very next election that I have enjoyed working with seriously. Each and every one of us have the them very much and enjoyed the acquaintances responsibility to defend this place. If you take that I have made, and certainly enjoyed the that responsibility seriously you will not be debate that has gone back and fo rth across the playing politics with the kind of activities that House. we have seen at times here. April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 279

I also want to say, Madam Speaker, that I chaired with a national minister for many years, have had the privilege and I want to thank the or whether it was dealing with the leadership in many constituents over the years from Arthur my time of Agriculture ministers or in any other, and then Arthur-Virden. I have had the privilege because there is a revolving time when ministers with the boundary realignment to serve many from provinces take the leadership role and chair communities. I want to genuinely thank those those events. You have a responsibility to do people because they truly have been good to me. things fo r other parts of Canada which I have They have been good to my wife, Linda, and to been deeply honoured to be part of, this great my son, Ryan, and to all our fam ily. I say very nation. genuinely: thank you fo r being there fo r us, and we have tried to do our best. I also want to say that I have had a tremendous opportunity, not only at national I also want to acknowledge leaders that I events but to be part of activities with the prime have had the opportunity to serve under. ministers of Canada and most recently Team Premier Sterling Lyon, who was a tremendous Canada, when we toured Mexico, Brazil, leader of this province and, yes, although one Argentina and Chile. To have the Canadian flag term. put this province back on a path of and the Canadian national anthem played as you responsibility, of accountability, and a direction come off the airplane with your ministers and that was to take us into the right way. Of course, the business people, I can tell you that is when the people of Manitoba decided in 1981 that that you brim with pride. would not be the case, that they wanted to put their lot with Premier Howard Pawley. I will I am absolutely proud to be a part of that make a few comments as it relates to that period activity and to have seen the greatness and the of time, but I think the record books clearly achievements of prime ministers, whether it was show how much this province suffered under the John Diefenbaker, who gave the native people socialist doctrine of-and by the way, one of the the right to vote, Madam Speaker, Progressive current members who is still here is the current Conservative, to be part of and to have served Leader of the NDP party, which took this with people-yes, I had respect fo r the manner in province to its knees, Madam Speaker, took it to which he carried out the government, and I will its knees. put it on the record. I did not particularly like his policies and the direction he took Canada, Madam Speaker, I am extremely proud to be but Pierre Elliott Trudeau was an extremely serving with Premier Gary Film on and all of my strong person. He took this country where I did colleagues over the past many years who have not want it to go, but a tremendously powerful turned this province around. You know, I have individual. given this speech many times and many times over, and I will say it again, that Premier Filmon As was Brian Mulroney, and, you know, said when he was elected in 1988, if there is one there is a man who today is not held in very high thing he could change in Manitoba, one thing he regard, but our trade policies that we have today, could change in Manitoba, he would be pleased, we have to say that Brian Mulroney and his and that was the attitude of the people of government of which many ministers came from Manitoba. western Canada, I acknowledge that there was some good activities done. Yes, my fr iend Joe You know what, Madam Speaker, he and Clark, who is still with us and may well, and I the caucus colleagues I have sat with have done say, may well become prime minister again, that that. We have turned the attitude of the people I was extremely proud of him. In fa ct, he was to of Manitoba to one of being very, very positive. take this country in the right direction. Yes, I and I am proud to have served with every one of will say about the current government in Ottawa my colleagues who have served, those who are and the current Prime Minister, they have carried no longer with us and those who are here. out a Conservative agenda. They truly have Equally, I have been extremely proud to have done what this country has needed. Yes, they served on a national level in certain activities, have been hard on us, and I do not accept the whether it was in internal trade which I co- fact that they cut our health care and education. 280 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

That has been hard. They could have taken worked fo r government, to those many people money elsewhere, but they actually have who have sent me letters, and Linda, letters of delivered a Conservative agenda to some degree. thanks and congratulations and some regrets that I am leaving, others happy that I am leaving, I I have also been pleased to have been at the say thank you because it truly is a great feeling World Trade Organization meetings where I to have the many positive comments. have seen such leaders, such notable leaders and great world people such as Nelson Mandela, to * (1510) have heard the President of the United States and be part of a meeting with Bill Clinton. Yes, Now, for the New Democrats, I have a few Fidel Castro was there, and, yes, Tony Blair was words fo r them because I think it is important there, the current Prime Minister of England. that I leave this place with them fe eling just as bad about me, or not liking me as much today as So, Madam Speaker, I have been privileged, when I came in here, and I will try and make and I have been honoured, to come from sure that I accomplish that goal with this speech. southwestern Manitoba, through the democratic system, to have been able to have served my Madam Speaker, a particular acknowledge­ community not only as a representative there in ment to my colleagues because we have a Manitoba but also as part of this great country. government, we have elected members that not So I say thank you to those people. one in the time that I have been in this House have had to step aside fr om cabinet because of On the international scene, I have been any question of their integrity or their pleased to have been promoting Manitoba and to involvement or what they have done that is sign agreements with other jurisdictions, untoward, and I am proud as proud can be whether it is Jalisco, Mexico, whether it is Rio because of that. Not one. And when the New Grande do Sui in Brazil, whether it is in Hunan, Democratic Party can stand up and say that, I China, or most recently the agreement that think they can be holier than thou, but they Manitoba signed with Egypt to, fo r the first time cannot. This recent issue, and I regret, I regret ever, introduce canola products and canola crop terribly that it happened. I regret it for everyone to Egypt where there are 62 million people. I am involved, whether they were victims, whether extremely proud to have represented this they were perpetrators or whatever they were; I province and this country to introduce such an regret it fo r everybody's sake, but there was not important product to them. one dollar of taxpayers' money put in question, not one dollar of taxpayers' money put in Madam Speaker, we truly are world class. question. I want everyone to pay attention to The World Junior Hockey tournament that was that, not one dollar. just held this last year truly put Manitoba-the junior world hockey that was held in Manitoba But I can tell you, if you read the history truly showed that we are world class. The Pan books about the New Democratic Party, I will American Games, where there will be a hundred tell you a little bit about the New Democratic thousand people from the Americas come to play Party. I will tell you that the member fo r and to mix and to do business, that is world Brandon East (Mr. L. Evans) knows all about it. class. There were three people that worked for his Crown corporation known as McKenzie Seeds, I want to also say to the many employees and you know what happened? They got their that I have had through my diffe rent times in money mixed up with McKenzie Seeds, and different departments-in fact, when somebody when they took it out, they did not take just their read out my portfolio list one time, my goodness money. They took some of McKenzie Seeds sakes, they said that it just shows that he cannot money, which was taxpayers' money. What hold a job. Well, that may have been the way it happened to those people? They went to jail. was, but every one of those jobs I fe lt Did the member for Brandon East, did he say to tremendous dedication to. But to those people them: Did you take money fr om McKenzie who have had an event in my honour, who Seeds? Did he ask them that question, as they April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 281 are running at the Premier (Mr. Filmon) saying, without sin throw the first stone. Well, they did you ask the question? No, he did not ask the have thrown a lot of stones, and you know what, question. Do you know what Howard Pawley's Madam Speaker, it may just come back on them, answer to it was so that Mr. Evans did not have it may just start coming back on them. to answer to the Legislature or the public? His answer was not have a commission of inquiry; So I apologize to the individuals if I have he shuffled his cabinet so Len Evans did not hurt their feelings, but I honestly believe fo r the have to answer to the public. That is the kind of new members and all those members here they history that the NDP leave in this province. should hear the kinds of people who are so holy telling us how great they are and they have never Let me show you when Mr. Bucklaschuk made a mistake. was the minister of government autopac, and Mr. Doer sat in the cabinet, when somebody told I also think it is important to note that this somebody that they were going to get rid of Mr. place is a place where greatness emanates from. Laufer, was the truth told? Mr. Laufer was the Let me tell you a little bit about the greatness of fo rmer chairman who recently sued Manitoba some of the people, and one cannot pass by a Public Insurance Corporation and got $2 million. fo rmer Premier, Duff Roblin, who it has been Was there an inquiry as to who told the truth to demonstrated time and time again how important whom? No, there was not. Should there have his vision was fo r this province, to build the been? There may still should be. Madam floodway, to build the Asessippi Dam to put a Speaker, that is the New Democrats. reserve of water for Brandon and Portage and all of those communities as they grow and develop, Let me take you to another area where in to save the city of Winnipeg when we have had fa ct it was proven that a representative of the the devastation of floods, to have the vision to New Democrats did lie. We had the Tritschler build the hydro power system, which is report where Cass-Beggs was taken before a generating the tremendous wealth fo r this commission of inquiry and it was proved that he country in having the lowest power rates, to lied to the committee of the Manitoba introduce, yes, a Crown corporation known as Legislature, and it cost the taxpayers millions of Crop Insurance, of which the NDP believe that dollars to build Jenpeg in the wrong place at the they are the only ones who believe in Crown expense of the taxpayers of Manitoba. Those are corporations, and the credit corporation which is the people that lied to the people of Manitoba, also a Crown corporation, implemented by and it cost us and it cost us dearly fo r the Conservative governments. They do not have a purposes of their staying in office, not to get to monopoly on socialism, but when it is the right the truth, but it was fo r them fixing their own thing to do, our governments have done it. way in life, not in the interests of the people of Manitoba. Madam Speaker, Premier Sterling Lyon, tremendous leader, but unfortunately there were Madam Speaker, you know, there was an some unfortunate stories told that we were going interesting article in the Free Press recently to sell Hydro, that we were going to do all kinds where a couple of people signed it. I will just of things. We were going to develop a potash make a quick quote of it: "If the Free Press mine; we were going to have 800 jobs in an editors want to go after election rigging, they aluminum smelter; and we would have had a should look to their mentors, the NDP and the national power grid by now looking after the unions. Everyone knows (except, obviously, the needs of the people of this country, but Howard Free Press) that in every civic election the New Pawley and the NDP got in and were going to do Democratic Party help to finance 'independent' it better. They blew the best opportunities that left-wing candidates." this country has ever seen.

Those are not my words, that is signed by Now, let us come to our current Premier two people and it is in a public document. So (Mr. Filmon), who I have a tremendous amount you know they are very fast to throw stones of respect and high regard fo r, who has the when they live in glass houses. Let he or she stamina, who has the vision, and who has taken 282 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 this province even a better distance down the had not been listening to my constituents, that road of getting to prosperity. Let us deal with they did not want to sell Manitoba Telephone some of the native issues, whether it is the System. I dare say, I did not have but one or two settling of land claims, whether it is the Northern calls. He would traipse through my riding and Flood Agreement, whether it is the North come out with a handful of people saying that I Central Hydro, whether it is the $20 million that am in trouble, I am in trouble, because I was went into the Grand Rapids fo rebay, of which, selling MTS. Our Conservative government by the way, the NDP said: legally, we do not developed the Manitoba Telephone System. A have to do it. But our Premier came along with Conservative government did the right thing to a compassionate government and said: we will do that to provide service throughout this make some settlements with those people. country, and it did the right thing to sell it [interjection] Yes, Madam Speaker, we are because 70 percent of the business was going to extremely proud; a Premier who led and saved be in competition with the private sector. We how many thousands of people when we had the did not need to be in the private sector worst fo rest fires that this province has seen. competing with our telephone system, as it is so We evacuated thousands of people. A flood that right that our Hydro Board and our Hydro this province has not seen in over a hundred management decided to buy Centra Gas. years, again, evacuated and saved every life because of the direction and the team of people Now I think it is time the New Democratic who put forward their efforts. Went through the Leader (Mr. Doer) stood up and said he is either worst recession and still maintained and fo r it or he is against it. The member fo r Swan increased the budget fo r our health care system. River (Ms. Wowchuk) will be in a lot of trouble I am proud. I am extremely proud, and that is in the next election because she has never once what this place is all about-philosophical debate. put in writing a request fo r gas fo r Swan River, I have not heard a strong philosophical debate but they will get gas, I believe, with the hydro come fr om the opposition members in a long system being part of it, fa r more than they ever time. I have not heard them stand up and give a would have with Centra Gas. I believe that strong philosophical approach. commitment can be made fo r this next election without question, and they will get what they One of the best things that has happened to need. this province is that we have put in law the balancing of the budget, and to put this govern­ Madam Speaker, who is telling the truth in ment, to put this province on a sound fo oting the New Democratic Party? They talk about where the people know that we are not going to truth and who is not telling the truth. Is the New run into terrible deficits, that we will not have a Democratic Party Leader telling the truth when tax increase without the support of the people he says that he is not going to sell Manitoba and that our debt will be paid off so that some Telephone System or is the member for day, Madam Speaker, your children and your Thompson who berated and belittled and grandchildren will not have to pay a sales tax, churned at the last session of the Legislature that there will not be the kind of tax burden that when we sold it? He delayed this House. He the NDP would have you and me and our frothed at the mouth, and he said: no question, children bear. That is the kind of future that I we will buy back the Manitoba Telephone see. That is the kind of vision that this Premier System. and this government and my colleagues running in the election will have, that some day we will Whose policy do the people of Manitoba cast offthe burden of taxation as we have known listen to? Are they going to come clean in an it in the past. election campaign and stand up and say we are going to sell it or we are going to keep it? You * (1520) know, Mr. Doer-! am sorry-the member fo r Concordia better come clean as well, as it relates To have sold Manitoba Telephone System is to the buying of the gas company. He says fr om absolutely the right thing to do. The member fo r his seat today, oh, we are in agreement with the Thompson (Mr. Ashton) kept berating me, that I sale, but you paid too much fo r it. He also said April l4, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 283 calf to me means you made a pretty good deal we can help those taxpayers is a tremendous and you have a hydro system that is worth more. move to look at how we can better be That is not making a bad deal. That is making a competitive on a global basis because that is dam good deal. where our competition is; it is global. I think it is also important to note in the future that the I ask the Liberal Party, what is left of them, groundwork has been laid. The groundwork has Madam Speaker, if they will come clean as to been laid. We will have a more efficient why they do not want us to purchase Centra. government. We will have a government that [interjection] Absolutely. It will lower the cost continues to put the taxpayers first. fo r the consumers of gas. It will provide opportunities fo r gasification of communities Health care: I want to talk fo r a minute that have been denied it fo r years and years and about health care because we continue to hear years. It is absolutely the right thing to do. about health care. First, the quality of fo od, and I take my hat off to anybody who works in a I want to talk a little bit about the future, hospital, anybody who goes to a hospital or has because that is what it is all about. Our throne anything to do with it because the only reason speech clearly spelled out where this province you go is because you need their services. was, where it is at, and where it is going. And Madam Speaker, I was in the Health Sciences you know what? I heard that fr om the Centre and I was looked after, but I cannot tell Progressive Conservative Party. I have not you that I can rave about the fo od that they heard anything from the New Democratic Party. currently had. In fact, a lot of people who are They are banking on one and one issue alone, complaining about the new food system, they are and that is that we are fo r some reason going to still on the old fo od system. This fo od issue is a be held or put down because of the Monnin bogus argument. It is a labour issue. It is inquiry. I am sorry, you never gain support in a nothing to do with fo od; it is a labour issue, and society by tearing down your opponent. The last let us call a spade a spade. time I checked, you get support by building up your own strengths. [interjection] Madam Speaker, I ask the member fo r Interlake (Mr. C. Evans), I ask the member fo r The member fo r Flin Flon (Mr. Jennissen) Brandon East (Mr. L. Evans), the member fo r fo r some reason has something to say, being a Dauphin (Mr. Struthers) to check in their fo rmer teacher. It is interesting to note that hospitals because you know what they have under his administration Flin Flon had a fo ur­ now? They have dialysis machines put there not year life span any time that I can remember. by an NDP government, by a Conservative Today, Flin Flon mine and smelter, after some government to provide services to those people, $200 million-and-some by the private sector and and I just happened to note that there is a little the province-and I have never heard him say problem in health care in Saskatchewan recently. thank you-will now show a 12-year life span fo r That is an NDP government, those of the the young people of Flin Flon. saviour. I am not sure whether the New Democrats are going to go and campaign for the Madam Speaker, what about the future? Let government or fo r the workers. They will have a us first of all go to the Boundaries Commission dilemma. But here is a headline: More hospital that reported that fo r the firsttime, I believe, in doors may close in rural Saskatchewan. That is three reviews of our boundaries we do not lose a February of this year. I checked, the last time it rural or northern boundary. The policies of this was a New Democratic government. government on diversification and decentralization have worked. We have Madam Speaker, let us talk about education stabilized our communities. We have got the because I think we should put education in wealth creation distributed evenly throughout the perspective. The member for Wolseley (Ms. province, and I am proud to be part of a Friesen), she is a great expert on education. I government to see that happen. Yes, we have a think that we should put it in this context. Get greater rural population, and, yes, to introduce a on a 747 airplane. I think the member should do lower tax commission to better find ways that that and when she is sitting on the airplane ready 284 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Apri1 14, 1999 to take off, the captain of the plane comes on and could sell to whom they wanted to, they did not says: Hi, welcome to my airplane. By the way, have to go through a single desk. [interjection] I am a product of the New Democratic Party Yes, and the NDP voted against it. education system in Manitoba and I got through my Grade 12. Yes, I got through my Grade 12; I Today, we have got a group of producers actually could only do Grade 10 math. Nobody who want to produce fr om durum wheat durum tested me, though. Nobody tested me but I got flour in southwestern Manitoba. Do you know through and I am proud of it. I actually got what? They cannot do it. The Canadian Wheat through my airplane pilot's training because I Board disallows them to do it because you have was a good person, and because they did not to pay the same price as you would pay fo r the want to hold anybody back and make anybody wheat if it got to Toronto. How does that create fe el bad, I got my pilot's licence. By the way, jobs on the Prairies? It ships jobs down the rail we are taking off through clouds, and I may have lines. to do some mathematical calculations. By the way, have a nice trip. You see, that is what Madam Speaker, the New Democratic Party testing means. It means at the end of day, when continue to argue and argue that we should not people come out, they are qualifiedto do things. have open marketing, dual marketing fo r Wheat Board grains. I say save the Wheat Board. Pay How would you like to go in fo r an a nickel a bushel fo r the operating costs. Pay operation and the doctor said, I went through the another nickel a bushel to promote wheat NDP system; I have got Grade 12, but I can internationally, but let the fa rmers do what they only cut your tonsils out with a Grade 10 want with their grain. Go to a flour mill, go to education? How would you like that? That is the world market, but let them do their thing the NDP way, ladies and gentlemen. Those are because if they do not, the Canadian Wheat the policies that they stand fo r. We stand fo r Board will destroy itself. people who have got qualities to present in the world in a global market, Madam Speaker. We Canola is outside of the Wheat Board. We do not want to water down the people that we now produce more wealth in canola and more produce. canola crushing plants than we ever have of wheat. Canola has saved the farm and it is not Madam Speaker, the lowest unemployment marketed by a marketing agency. in all of Canada, the lowest youth unemploy­ ment in all of Canada because the policies that Madam Speaker, I ask the members opposite Premier Filmon and this government put in place to take off their blinders. I tell the members got Manitobans working. opposite to come to the real world because that is where we are at. I have to talk a little bit about marketing because I have been known to do that. In one of I have a vision as well fo r this province. my first speeches here I got into a lot of doo-doo believe strongly that the water systems, the because of a comment I made, but it was a true excessive water that drains through this province comment then and it is a true comment today. in the spring of the year has to be captured, has to be put behind structures, has to be saved fo r

* (1530) the agronomic purposes of this country, fo r the domestic purposes and fo r the industrial We have just seen, ladies and gentlemen, my purposes, and, yes, fo r more hydro purposes. colleagues, the biggest announcement recently Because I also believe it is time that we looked of over one hundred and some million dollars at starting up the Conawapa dam. The world being invested in Brandon fo r a hog plant that will need to have the electrical energy. will create some 2,200 jobs. Do you know, Madam Speaker, that if the New Democratic Madam Speaker, I could talk about being the Party were in office that would not be built? Canadian, the North American centre fo r bus First of all, we had to make a change in the manufacturing, fo r the garment industry, fo r the marketing of hogs policy where the producers fo od industry, fo r the furniture industry, fo r the April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 285 call centre industry, fo r the high-tech industry. My last while in the Ministry of Industry, We have it all right here. We have capital Trade and Tourism, the biggest challenge that I development taking place, giving people the had and the current minister will have the same, tools to invest, to create jobs so those jobs can is the finding of people to fill the jobs that we pay fo r the education and the health care needs have. Have we ever heard the New Democratic of those people of our province. I can tell you Party stand up and say, we have done a good job without any question that our manufacturing on creating jobs? Have they ever given credit sector will continue to grow and expand and fo r anything? Do they honestly believe that explode and provide opportunities. We are what they are trying to push on the people of adding value to almost everything except those Manitoba actually will sell? Well, I hope they things that come under government control, continue. I hope they continue to push hard again, like the Canadian Wheat Board and that because the harder they push, the more­ product. [interjection] Well, I will not go there, where the Liberals are going to go. Madam Speaker, it is time that we truly Madam Speaker, I will conclude my started thinking globally all across the map. remarks by putting on the record, again, a thank Dams fo r agriculture and domestic purposes, fo r you to my wife, Linda, and son, Ryan, who have storage of water, yes, fo r use in electricity. We hung with me and who have been part of the are entering the new millennium. We are team, to my constituents who have been very entering the new millennium which is a very good to me and to our family who have been important time. It is a very important time fo r there, to my parents and to my wife's parents and our young people. I say to the young people of all our families. It has been an exciting time. It our province, by the way, who have never had has been sometimes a little trying but not very the opportunity to experience what a New often, but particularly to my colleagues who are Democratic Party can do to your province, it has continuing in politics and in doing what is not been that long ago that we have seen the extremely honourable. I say that fr om the devastation that took place in Ontario. bottom of my heart to people who have dedicated their lives and will continue to Madam Speaker, we are currently seeing the dedicate their lives. devastation that is taking place in British Columbia. In fact, fo r the member fo r Brandon You are here because the people of East (Mr. L. Evans), I am extremely proud to Manitoba need you. You are here because the report to him today, and this has been his big people of Canada need you. Take this province problem, that we now have virtually reversed the into the next millennium, because the people of out-migration of the people from Manitoba. Ten Manitoba, I believe, want to vote fo r you. I will years ago we saw 10,000 people moving. Today do everything I can to help make that happen. I it has virtually gone to 2,000, if not less. Yes, will do whatever I can in the future to make sure we had a blip in 1996, which his fr iends in that this province and particularly the young Statistics Canada cannot explain, but we have people have the opportunities that I have had actually reversed it. without fear or favour of anyone putting them down, because of either a philosophical or some instrument that does not allow them to match or Hon. Harry Eons (Minister of Agriculture): to meet their full potential. It is a great province. People from British Columbia are coming back. It is a great country. I have had an extremely important privilege to serve, and I thank you and Mr. Downey: Madam Speaker, my colleague all my colleagues. the Minister of Agriculture, whom I have had the privilege of sitting with fo r many years and he Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Fiin Flon): It is with will be here when I come back, I am sure, I want rapt attention I listen to the member fo r Arthur­ to say that we believe strongly that it is time to Virden (Mr. Downey) describing a Manitoba go and encourage those young people who have that I did not recognize. Nonetheless, Madam left to come back because there are jobs here. Speaker, I am aware he gave a very impassioned 286 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 speech, and I do give him credit fo r his long member fo r Fort Garry (Mrs. Vodrey) who years of service. I guess I wanted to simply say apparently is not going to run again, and the the phrase that kept running in my mind is, a member fo r Springfield (Mr. Findlay), and the good man fa llen among ultra-conservatives. member fo r Steinbach (Mr. Driedger).

I am pleased, Madam Speaker, to have the The member fo r Springfield (Mr. Findlay) opportunity to put a fe w words on record in especially, the fo rmer Minister of Highways and response to the government's Speech fr om the Transportation, I am really going to miss Throne. I welcome back all honourable because I did come to, I guess the word is, members, and I am especially saddened by the enjoy-I suppose it is kind of a sadistic fa ct that one of our honourable members is not enjoyment-Estimates, but I certainly did look here. One of our honourable members has fo rward to dealing in Estimates with the fo rmer passed on, Mr. Neil Gaudry. This leaves a void Minister of Highways. He will no longer be in this Chamber. Mr. Gaudry sat to my there, and I guess that fa miliarity will be gone. immediate left over the last fe w years. I got to I am going to miss it and I am going to miss him. know him quite well on a very informal level, I I wish him well in his new career. He has done am sure, but on a daily basis. We shared many an outstanding job fo r the people of Manitoba. I jokes and comments as the speeches got boring know he is a man whom I deeply respect. at times, and I got to know Neil on a human level. We did not always agree, and he got Also, Madam Speaker, I was struck the terribly mad at me when I said something rash other day by the fa rewell speech fr om the about the Liberal leader once. I regret having member fo r Steinbach (Mr. Driedger). I thought said that because sometimes I do say things I am it was a particularly strong speech from the sometimes sorry fo r. I wish Mrs. Gaudry, heart, rising above basically the ideologies of Leona, well. I extend my sympathy and this Chamber, and I think I learned an awful lot condolences of that of my fam ily to her and her of things fr om that particular speech. He put family. We know in Mr. Gaudry we have lost a things in an historical context. I was fa scinated strong Francophone voice and a strong by that context. I had never realized over the representative fo r St. Boniface. last two decades how much things have changed in this Chamber. I mean I did not know that at As well, I am pleased to see a new one point somebody tried to table a dead pigeon. Lieutenant Governor, Mr. Peter Liba, read the I did not know that at one point in this Chamber Speech from the Throne. I wish him well. As people used to call in the pages to bring in well, I wish to welcome the new Sergeant-at­ ashtrays after the session and smoke. I did not Arms, and I also welcome the new pages. I know that at the end of the session they would notice today we have a new one. I am glad that roll up their Hansards, tape them shut and throw they are here, and I hope it is a learning them at each other, nor did I know that in 1977 experience fo r them. I do not particularly care if the wage fo r an MLA was $8,200, so things have the group is gender-balanced or not. Perhaps I changed. I fo und the speech from the member should care, but they seem to be a very good fo r Steinbach most fo rthright. group. I thought to myself, why is it that you have

* (1540) to retire before you really speak fr om the heart? Could we not do this a little earlier? In fact, I Finally, my best wishes go to those in this could not help but notice that when the member Chamber who are not seeking re-election, fo r Steinbach spoke fr om the heart, honestly and including the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. fa irly, treating us all as honourable members, Downey) who I know is a strongly committed that it was in sharp contrast to what I fe lt was the person to his ideals and his ideology, as we are content of the throne speech. I am sad to say committed to our beliefs as well. Sometimes I that but that is how I fe lt. get little hot-headed when I hear him say those kinds of things about us, but I try to say let us In the 17 pages of that document which took keep the tempers down. This also includes the the Lieutenant Governor approximately half an April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 287 hour to read, I only fo und one reference to and over again: "My governmentknows it must, northern Manitoba. Those are the people whom and it will," et cetera. That was used over and I represent in one particular riding and the over again. That, of course, conveniently puts people whom I fe el responsible fo r or things into the future: "and it will,"-it has not responsible to, and I was disappointed by that. I happened yet-conveniently after the election. will read that one reference. On page 12, So it is highly likely that this Angus Reid poll paragraph 3: My government also remains does reflect what the government knows, that committed to working with Brandon and northern Manitobans do not have to be given Manitoba's rural and northern communities to much attention to because they are angry with find ways to make our rural economy flourish. this government. They are cynical about this government. They are not going to vote in large There is nothing wrong with that as a numbers fo r this government. [interjection] statement, but that is the only time northern communities are even mentioned. They were The honourable member says we are not mentioned sort of in passing, and they were going to be so sure of that. Well, we will have mentioned in conjunction with Brandon as if to see in the election, Madam Speaker. I am Brandon were an afterthought, as if rural only guessing. All I know is that northern communities were an after-afterthought and Manitoba got short shrift in this document, and northern communities were an after-after­ we are tired of being treated as second-class afterthought. I think that kind of bothers us citizens. because in the North we have become used to the benign neglect of the Tory party. I am not Every Manitoban, I believe, knows that the sure if that is due to voting behaviour or Golden Boy points north, and we know the something else, but we have become used to it. reason why it points north, because we know So it does not surprise us that we have been that the economic potential of this province can shortchanged or given short shrift in this best be realized, or can largely be realized, in the particular throne speech. future in northern Manitoba. This is not to denigrate the capital area of southern Manitoba, As the member fo r Transcona (Mr. Reid) but we do know that the North is pointed out about the throne speech as well, it underdeveloped. That is where economic seemed to be based on Tory polling results. So I development should be fo cused. For sure, that is guess we could refer to it as the Angus Reid where not only mining but tourism should be throne speech. Now they do indeed mention fo cused, and that is not happening. Winnipeg and they mention the Capital Region Traditionally, that is where the fish and the fur in quite a fe w number of pages, but they do not came from. It headed south. That is where the mention specifically northern Manitoba. Madam minerals are coming from, and they are heading Speaker, we know, as I said before, the member south. That is where the hydro power is coming fo r Transcona has pointed out that the Angus from, and it is heading south. That is where the Reid poll that the Tories obviously VL T revenues also come from, and they are commissioned was used to craft this throne heading south, and the taxes and so on. speech. I guess their spin doctors then came up with a document called a throne speech, which is supposed to create no annoyance to anybody It is the North that needs to be developed. because I think we pointed out-well, at least fo ur That is where the tourism should fo cus, years ago roughly-that we knew what the especially ecotourism, and it should be done in agenda would be: squeeze the people of conjunction with aboriginal people because the Manitoba, get the slushfu nd out there, use it just fact is that these are the poorest of the poor. The before the election. This is indeed unfolding fact is that there is high unemployment on exactly as it is. reserves. The fact is that there are some serious health problems on reserves, and these people As well, Madam Speaker, reading the throne need a break. In order to unlock the wealth in speech, I notice a lot of rhetorical devices. I will northern Manitoba, we need to work together in just quote one of them that was repeated over conjunction with aboriginal people much more 288 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 than we are doing right now. In fact, right now being downloaded. I mean, that is not we are not even including their unemployed supporting northern communities. people in our statistics. It is a disgrace. I do not care, Madam Speaker, if this It is true, Madam Speaker, that in the North ideological or not, the simple fact is we were some of the wealth has been unlocked, but ignoring that region. One thing leads to another; northerners, by and large, do not share in that there is a domino effect. So the infrastructure in wealth. The minerals, as I have said before, go the North needs to be upgraded. It is not being south; the wood goes south; the pulp, the paper, upgraded right now. the taxes, the VL T revenues. And what do northerners get back? Madam Speaker, it took us a long time and it took a coalition of northerners to make sure that We fe el that we are providing the banquet the railroad was not sold, that the Sherridon line and we are getting back a fe w crumbs. I know is still functioning, but that was a tough battle. honourable members disagree with that, but talk But Lynn Lake is not out of the woods by any to the majority of northerners, that is their point means, and I will give you an example of of view, and I share that. something that happened not too terribly long ago. I was in Lynn Lake last spring with Lome Madam Speaker, this throne speech lacks Nystrom, a fe deral M.P., and also Bev vision, and when there is no vision, the people Desjarlais, the fe deral M.P. fo r the Churchill perish. We know that. Entire regions of area of which Flin Flon is part. We talked to the northern Manitoba are at risk right now, people about the fa ct that they did not have particularly that Leaf Rapids-Lynn Lake region. proper banking because the one bank in town I am talking about basic things, basic had moved out after being there fo r 50 years. infrastructure, roads, railroads, airports, towns The people were angry. They were saying how that are in the process of dying, and I am not can we sustain any kind of economic sure whether this government cares or is going development when we do not even have a bank to do anything about it. It has not done very to go to. We could not even get that particular much so far. bank to put in an automated teller machine. Eventually they did, but it took quite a battle. I would also point out, Madam Speaker, that it was the Schreyer government and to some * (1550) degree the Pawley government that built the northern roads and the northern airports and did Can you imagine a community that has no fo cus on the North, the direction the Golden Boy bank? What do the tourists do, because the points. I am serious when I talk about an entire nearest other town is a hundred kilometres away region being at risk. Our mining sector is facing over some very, very rough roads. What do the great difficulties, and as yet we have not taken businesses do, the citizens who have mortgages? any real steps to remedy that situation, unlike In fact, in the case of Lynn Lake, we have Saskatchewan which is taking some drastic NASA and Japanese scientists come there every measures to try and revive the mining sector. summer fo r high-altitude experiments with We take a look at Leaf Rapids and Lynn Lake, balloons. Where do they cash their cheques? and what do we see? We see a railroad that was Where do they exchange money from American going to be abandoned by CN a fe w years ago dollars to Canadian, and so on? As well, Lynn because the fe deral Liberals on July 1, 1996, Lake is a centre fo r Pukatawagan, Brochet, Lac decided by the Transportation Act that CN could Brochet and Tadoule Lake and so on. So walk away from such a line. So Lynn Lake was moving a bank out of that place creates hardship being hamstrung in that sector. The fe ds were fo r the entire region and is still creating dumping the airport on the small town, a town hardships fo r the entire region. that has lost three-quarters of its population over the last 20 years. The province will not fix 391. Now, we suggested, Madam Speaker, that as So what are we supposed to do? The roads are a minimum we could have the Mining Reserve not fixed; the railroad was fo r sale; the airport is Fund headquartered in Lynn Lake because we April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 289 needed X number of dollars on deposit in order Mr. Deputy Speaker, the Leaf Rapids to allow banking to exist in that particular Chamber of Commerce has suggested in the past community, and that was turned down by this that one of the smart things we could do is to government. I do not know why. It would have have a mine watch for communities such as Leaf been a no-cost solution. It would have saved Rapids, so five years in advance we would give banking fo r Lynn Lake and the region. The special incentives fo r mining companies to do region is at risk; L ynn Lake is at risk. The Black exploration, special incentives for people to Sturgeon Band, which is probably one of the come and invest there, diversification processes newest First Nations in the country or about to so that the people of Leaf Rapids do not have to be, is at the moment situated in Lynn Lake, but face a total shutdown in the year 2003. they want to develop their reserve near Hughes Lake. Hopefully, the federal government will Saskatchewan has such strategies, Mr. make that possible in the near future. Deputy Speaker. There is a northern Saskatchewan strategy. We do not have such a strategy in Manitoba, and I think it is high time Madam Speaker, Leaf Rapids is part of that we did. Lynn Lake and Leaf Rapids are great same region that is at risk. By the year 2003, the towns. They are hospitable towns. I have Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting's Ruttan mine always enjoyed being there. It is a beautiful is going to close, and when that happens the region. It has tremendous potential for growth, future of the town is in serious jeopardy. but we have to put up with horrible roads and fo r a while with a railroad that maybe would not Mr . Ma rcel Laurendeau, Deputy Sp eaker, in the even exist and, of course, with sporadic air Chair service. That does not help that beautiful place very much. Now, that is in sharp contrast to a number of The province has to start fo cusing on those years ago when Leaf Rapids was the modeltown regions because they are seriously at risk. I of the North and perhaps of northern regions know the simplistic answer is: these are mining everywhere. In fact, a few years ago when we towns, the ore has run out, goodbye. Well, there were celebrating the 25th anniversary of Leaf is a lot you can do before the ore runs out, and Rapids, I happened to be there with Ed Schreyer, we should be doing some of those things. who talked about 25 years earlier when he and Lily had walked the sand dunes around Leaf As I said before, this is a region of which we Rapids and were going to talk about, in this all should be proud, not only because of its place there will be eventually an ultramodern hospitable people but of its beautiful scenery. town. So it saddens me a great deal to see that Certainly all Northern MLAs, all four of us, and that particular community is at risk, that the I am positive that the member fo r Rupertsland provincial government, in what I think was a (Mr. Robinson) would agree with me, are proud very sneaky way, even tried to sell the Town to represent those people, and they are from all Centre, which includes the school and the parts of Canada. hospital and so on. In fact, in Leaf Rapids, it is rather amusing, There is nothing in the throne speech, Mr. but I think the majority of people are from Deputy Speaker, that addresses the serious Newfoundland. I certainly enjoy representing concerns of that region, particularly Leaf Rapids that area. I enjoy going there and participating and Lynn Lake. I should mention, when we in the funspiels and participating in the labour were at the 25th anniversary celebration, at the socials on Labour Day and so on. The people same time paid tribute to the three men who lost are extremely friendly, and I am very happy to their lives-two of them were from South Indian be in that region whenever I get the chance to be Lake-in fighting forest fires in the region. there. Again, I hate to say: it is an extremely dry spring in the region and we should be prepared It will be a shame if we allow that region to fo r fo rest fires and we should be prepared before sort of wither on the vine. I do not understand the official season, which usually starts in May. for the life of me why we are not focusing on 290 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April l4, 1999 finding more ore in that region, why, out of 30 become or are already being used as a buffering geologists that the province hired, we do not zone between the minister's cuts and the minister have one working in that particular region, why saying I do not have to take responsibility, the we are not putting more money into 391, why RHAs are responsible for that. So it becomes a we are not upgrading the airports a little bit more buffer. People would like a little bit more than we have been. transparency, especially in terms of pay and how much the regional health authority share people Mr. Deputy Speaker, the throne speech does are getting paid, the clerks and so on, and that not have very much fo r the city of Flin Flon, information has not been fo rthcoming. which is the largest city in my riding. It is a city with not only a rich history but also a very rich Flin Flon was promised a personal care cultural life. It has a beautiful community choir home before the last election. It never that teamed up with the Winnipeg Symphony materialized. They did, however, close the Flin Orchestra under Bramwell Tovey not too long Flon/Creighton Crisis Centre. ago. They put on many musicals. They are extremely popular. In fa ct they are going to put As well, the province is extremely slow in on a musical extravaganza called Bomber Town working with Flin Flon on water and sewage and this April 22nd through 24th, and I look fo rward also fo r Channing, upgrading the water and with my wife to be attending that performance. sewage. That needs to be done.

The key people that pushed that, the key Senior housing is a great need in Flin Flon sparkplugs, the creative geniuses behind this are because although it is not a big city, like many Mark and Crystal Kolt. Most people, I suppose, cities people are moving out of the centre, remember Flin Flon only as a hockey factory, moving into the suburbs or moving around the and certainly the Flin Flon Bombers are well lakes, and the seniors are dispersed fa r out. known. Names like Bobby Clarke and Reid They really need a senior housing complex Simpson are probably fam iliar to the members downtown Flin Flon. here. Basically, Mr. Deputy Speaker, the twin There was major uncertainty in Flin Flon, concerns of Flin Flon and, in fact, fo r large Mr. Deputy Speaker, a while ago until the sections of the North are an aging population Project 2012 Plus was allowed to work, I guess. and young people who have to go south and The town went through a lot of stress, because cannot find jobs in the North. They have to be there were genuinely differing points of view on educated in the south. how things should proceed in terms of developing the potential of that region. The aging population, the older people, have to go to the south to be diagnosed fo r treatment There have been in the past in Flin Flon and so on, and this is a real burden on older major cutbacks to education and certainly to the people. It is a 12-hour bus ride. They despise hospital and to all northern hospitals. The nurses the $50 user fe e. The Northern Patient are overworked, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Transportation system charges them the first $50. Sometimes they have to stay more than one The decentralization idea of the Tories has night, but they only get paid fo r one night in the not worked. They decentralized a lot of people hotel room and so on. There are a lot of out of Flin Flon, away from Flin Flon, and that concerns older people have about health care and certainly does not help us. the fact that they have to move south. We have often said would it not be simpler if we could As well, Mr. Deputy Speaker, when I go bring Mohammed to the mountain; that is, bring door to door, people have questions about the specialists up North. That is not happening very regional health authorities. Everybody supports much, Mr. Deputy Speaker. grassroots, community-based medicine. There is not a problem about that, but they are concerned So our young people, as well, are trained in that they are stacked with Tories, that they may the south, cannot find jobs in the North. April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 291

Training them here at universities and colleges Cold Lake. The road remains a serious problem, costs a lot of money. A bus ticket from here to needs major upgrading, but we are not holding Flin Flon is at $150 for those kids. Air tickets, a our breath. It has not happened in the past. The regular rate, is about $800. So those are some of tourist potential is huge in that area. Fishing is the problems we face in northern Manitoba, great. There are a few lodges, but most people specifically in Flin Flon. are unemployed. It is a Metis community, and I happen to know virtually everyone in that There are other communities, smaller community and I think I have taught pretty well communities in my riding for which the throne half the people in that community. So I often speech had little good news. feel good when I go to Sherridon-Cold Lake.

An Honourable Member: It had no news. The Mining Reserve Fund was used to a limited degree to help fix their water system, but * (1600) I think it has created some problems fo r them because it did not improve the water quality very Mr. Jennissen: Or no news, as the honourable much. In fact, I think it did hurt one of the colleague mentioned. Cranberry Portage, for creeks or one of the small rivers. People in example, which is my home town-and I am very Sherridon-Cold Lake tell me there is little future proud to be from that town-has fallen on hard fo r their young people, little hope, and so this times. It is a small village with some sawmills, throne speech does nothing to change that, I some tourist lodges, the main employer Tolko suppose, gloomy picture. and the mining industry. There is nothing in this throne speech either The absolute main employer right in the fo r the Mathias Colomb First Nation, town is Frontier Collegiate Institute, which has a Pukatawagan. That particular First Nation has long and interesting history. It is a residential energetic leadership under Chief Shirley Castel. school, one of the fe w residential schools still I know she is working hard. She has a young left. It is a school that has trained and educated band council. I know they are working hard. many aboriginal leaders over the years, in fact, They include people like Ralph Caribou and including the honourable member fo r The Pas people like Hanson Dumas [phonetic], and I (Mr. Lathlin). I am proud to have been know they are working very hard to try and associated with that institution fr om 1972 to change things fo r the better in their community. 1994, fo r a total of 23 years. They have a new nursing station, but still But there is nothing in the throne speech that very often they have to fly out sick people. It is can liftmy town out of the gloom and the spiral not uncommon, at least in the past it was not of going slowly, things getting worse, nothing uncommon to have 35 medivacs in one month. that I can see that would make my community If you take a look at the cost of the medivac bounce back, and it is not fo r lack of trying, Mr. between $7,000 and $10,000, then why are we Deputy Speaker. It fe els, and many northerners not building an access road or a link to our fe el this way, it fe els as if the south has totally highway system, because that could easily be fo rgotten us, that our future is very cloudy. In done from the Tolko logging road? We are fact, the future of Frontier Collegiate Institute, talking about a distance of 30 kilometres. It the main employer, the school, may be cloudy would save us millions and millions and millions because so many new high schools are built now of medivac dollars, but somehow or other, in other northern communities, and that will, I despite our requests, this government has not think, eventually, or could eventually spell the taken that request seriously. But Hanson Dumas end of that residential school, although I hope [phonetic] and Wally Sinclair before him are still that is not the case. pushing. These are the people responsible fo r roads, and on their behalf I ask you once again, I Sherridon-Cold Lake, Mr. Deputy Speaker, ask this government once again, to take seriously nothing in the throne speech fo r that region. The the need to build a short chunk of road which unemployment rate is very high in Sherridon- will allow people access not only for medicine 292 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 and for hospital care, but they would be able to that particular community, South Indian Lake, get cheaper food. They can do their own was promised a road as part of the flood shopping and so on. We are not talking about a agreement. We are still waiting fo r that road. It huge chunk of construction, and it would make deserves an all-weather road around the lake life so much simpler. We would save money in and, hopefully, a bridge, if not a small fe rry. the long run if we did that, Mr. Deputy Speaker. That was promised a long time ago, and that has not materialized I am proud to announce that a new school is being built at Pukatawagan. It is a $20-million There are some northern communities I structure. I am somewhat concerned about the would like to touch on, Mr. Deputy Speaker. fact that there are some structural defects with These are the communities of Brochet, Lac the cement underneath the flooring. The chief is Brochet and Tadoule Lake. Those are very concerned about it and so am I, and I am merely isolated communities; housing is the big issue. putting this on record in case something should In the case of Brochet, they also seek go wrong. I do not want the First Nation blamed compensation from I believe it is Saskatchewan, fo r it. I want the fe deral government to be as well as this province, fo r the flooding of responsible fo r this. I hope this is being Reindeer Lake. It was not a major problem, but remedied. I am given to understand that it is, but it did create some damage, and this is years and I would like to have it on record. years ago. One of the concerns in that community is the fo od mail program. It costs a Tomorrow the Minister of Northern Affairs lot of money to send fo od up by plane. The (Mr. Newman) and I will be going to South federal government has changed the rules and Indian Lake as South Indian Lake is being regulations apparently, and it costs much more incorporated, and I look fo rward to being in that now to send fo od. community as well. I have taught many students from South Indian Lake, and it is a community Lac Brochet-I happened to listen to Chief that has gone through trying times. It was very Dan Tuzi [phonetic] the other day at the AMC much a self-sufficient community a number of meeting held behind the Fort Garry Hotel, in the years ago before the hydro development. In fact, building there, and in fact incidentally listened to the elders in that community tell me, and I have the Premier (Mr. Filmon) of the province no reason to doubt their words, that before the apologize to aboriginal people. Chief Dan Tuzi hydro development there were only two cases of [phonetic] was pointing out the fact that the welfare or social assistance. That is certainly not province talks about Nunavut a lot. I know the the case today. member fo r St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau) mentioned Nunavut and mentioned a trade The people there then engaged in their delegation to Nunavut, and that all sounds very traditional life styles of hunting and fishing. It is good, but Chief Dan Tuzi [phonetic] also a great fishing community. In fact, it was pointed out before we get too carried away, let interesting when I heard the Education minister us remember there are some outstanding land and also the member fo r Charleswood (Mrs. claims. There are some really serious concerns Driedger) using a slogan connected with fishing. that not only Lac Brochet faces but also Tadoule They said that if you gave somebody a fish, it Lake faces: housing concerns, education feeds them only a short while, but if you teach concerns, jobs, land claims and so on. We them how to fish it fe eds them fo r a long while. cannot fo rget merely because Nunavut became I certainly agree with this. This as a reality on April 1 that the Dene people still do development education slogan or strategy is well claim a chunk of land north of 60. That has not known. Well, I want you to know, those people gone away; that is still a reality. I think in fa ct were catching fish a long time ago and were the Samuel's case is still before the courts. being very successfulat it. It was only the hydro development that made life very difficult fo r Winter roads are always a problem fo r Lac them, and in fact last year's flood caused Brochet, as well as fo r Tadoule Lake and other enormous damage, both to the fishingand to the places. In Tadoule Lake, I do not want to nets, a lot of erosion, a lot of problems. Also reiterate what I have spoken on before, that is April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 293 the fo rced relocation of the Dene people from setting up of a lower tax commission, but it does their home to Churchill, the sad legacy that that not mention a fairer tax commission. I think it is left, but the federal government has never based on the loaded questions that the Tory compensated the Dene nor even apologized fo r pollsters ask, questions to the effect of: would this forced relocation. We are still waiting of you prefer lower taxes as compared to something course fo r the north of 60 settlement on land. I else? Of course, if you ask people would you recommend to all members of the House that prefer lower taxes, I think virtually everybody they read Ila Bussidor's and Ustin Reinart's says yes. If you add with that, would you prefer Night Spirits, so they can share the journey of lower taxes if it is going to impinge on your kid's aboriginal people, the painful journey of this education, or if it is going to affect your health particular group of aboriginal people, the people care, well, then it is a different story, so we have of the East, the Sayisi Dene. to be very careful how these loaded questions are used or translated by spin doctors put into Again, fo r the Sayisi Dene, as in other throne speeches. northern communities, winter roads become a problem. Some years the winter roads do not get The throne speech talks about reducing the built and the fo od supplies do not get in, the civil service by 10 percent via attrition. As far building supplies-at least not to the quantity that as I know, we already have the smallest civil they should get in-and prices rise. It is not the service in the country for a population our size, fault of the people living there. Why is it that in and cutting it by 10 percent will inevitably affect other parts of the province the fe deral and the service. I think, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that we provincial governments can work together and need more than symbolism in the throne speech. finance winter roads, but they will not do it in I know that the throne speech talks about that particular region? It is a concern that we creating the Order of Manitoba with the present have, that I have, and the people there have. Premier as chancellor. It sounds like president fo r life in some banana republic, but anyway I should mention the last of my communities maybe that is not fair. But we need more than is Granville Lake, which is also the smallest of those kinds of symbolisms. my communities and the most isolated, I suppose. I was very happy that the Minister of Our senior citizens are concernedabout high Northern Affairs (Mr. Newman) took the effort Pharmacare deductibles, about medical services and made the energy available to actually visit not available in the north. They hate the $50 Granville Lake. I am proud that he did that user fee, as I pointed out before. because I know very fe w MLAs have actually been to Granville Lake. [interjection] The Many of our injured workers are unhappy Deputy Speaker says he has been there. There with how the Workers Compensation Board are some wonderful people there, and I am very treats them, how long it takes to process claims. happy to see that water and sewage is finally When they are compensated, the compensation being put into Granville Lake. However, they is much smaller than it ought to be. So we talk do have a list of other problems, one of them about balancing budgets all right, but we are being CMHC housing, high rents and very, very balancing on the back of injured workers, and poor maintenance. Winter road access is always that is not fair. a problem fo r Granville Lake as well as very poor telephone service. Those are some of the Ordinary families are upset about the concerns ofpeople of Granville Lake, and I see increasing educational costs being shifted onto no remedy, at least in the general words of the property taxes. An elected Speaker may rank throne speech, fo r that particular community. high here, and we certainly support it, and we have some candidates in mind, I am sure, but it * (1610) is not really big on the agenda of the people of northern Manitoba. Ordinary families in the Mr. Deputy Speaker, this throne speech does north are much more concerned about why they virtually nothing fo r northern Manitoba, as I are paying more fo r telephone service. The have said before. The speech mentions the selling of MTS certainly led to that. They did 294 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 not want MTS sold. In fact they are now percent of the people bother to vote. That is wondering if the Tories have developed a new because they feel disenfranchised. It reminds economic strategy, sell low, buy high; sell MTS me, disturbingly reminds me of how things are way too low and then buy Centra very, very going on south of the border here, because so high. fe w Americans tum out to vote as well. When people do that, they are basically saying: we are Now, the throne speech does mention a helpless, we cannot change anything. I think National Highways Program. I am very that is a message very oftenthat this government interested in that. It is something we support reinforces. and I know the members opposite support as well, so there is at least one nugget there that we Mr . Ben Sveinson, Acting Sp eaker, in the Chair fo und in the throne speech, but I note that Mr. Collenette, the Honourable David Collenette, the The cynicism, the apathy and the anger are Minister of Transport in Ottawa, has hinted, at fuelled by governments that break their least, strongly that he is willing to make promises. They promise you the Jets, they are available $3.5 billion fo r some national highway not here. They promise they will not sell MTS, strategy, but it is matching grants, and I think they do sell them. They say they are going to that translates roughly to about $150 million fo r decentralize, they do not. They decentralize Manitoba, if such a strategy should be put into away. They promise us $90 million in Repap effect. We would have to match that by $150 roads, they never produced it. They said we million. That is a lot of money, Mr. Deputy would have a personal care home fo r Flin Flon, Speaker, but it is sadly needed because our road it never materialized. They said they will take infrastructure is certainly being pounded to education seriously, but I notice they cut Access pieces and it cannot go much longer without a and BUNTEP fu nding, Mr. Acting Speaker. massive infusion of capital. The honourable member fo r Arthur-Virden Talking about transportation links, which are (Mr. Downey) talks glowingly about the sanctity vital not only to the province but certainly up of this place and how our words can make a north, perhaps more so than in the south, neither better Manitoba, a strong Manitoba. In fa ct, the federal government nor the provincial listening to him I said, well, you know, if this is governmenthas done nearly enough to safeguard Eden, we cannot change anything. If the place is those vital transportation links. The member fo r perfect, why bother having government. The sad Transcona (Mr. Reid) pointed out the other day fact is it is not perfect, certainly not perfect in that we have lost 6,000 railroad jobs in this northern Manitoba, and this government is not province over the last number of years. We doing nearly enough fo r northern Manitoba. It is know that the feds are downloading ports. They a disgrace that we are being treated as second­ have already got rid of railroads, but they are class citizens. It is a disgrace that aboriginal downloading ports and airports as well. people are treated even worse than that, and I think all Manitobans deserve better, and we had There have been some major shifts in how hoped better fr om this throne speech. Thank you Canadians view Canada. It has become a user­ very much. pay society, and it has some major drawbacks fo r ordinary Canadians and ordinary Mr. Gerry McAlpine (Sturgeon Creek): Mr. Manitobans. Acting Speaker, it is a great honour fo r me to have the opportunity to address the members of Mr. Deputy Speaker, I know that the throne the House and the people of Sturgeon Creek and speech talks and promises a lot. It is optimistic. all Manitobans in response to this government's It talks about partnerships. But in the real world Speech from the Throne. It is also an honour to where I come from there is a high degree of welcome everybody back to the Legislature. cymc1sm and apathy and anger at all government, particularly at this government, and I would also like to welcome His Honour I would like to point out that in some of my Mr. Peter Liba to his new role as Lieutenant northern communities only about 9, 10, II Governorof Manitoba, representing Her Majesty April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 295 the Queen, and Her Honour Mrs. Shirley Liba. community. He represented the people of St. It is quite fo rtunate to hold this position as we Boniface very well and was liked by I think will be hosting our world-class event this pretty much every colleague in the Legislature. summer, the Pan Am Games. I know that he He had a tremendous sense of humour, and I will serve as an exemplary host to our visitors. would on behalf of my fam ily offer my condolences to Leona and her family for these I have had the pleasure of knowing His trying times that she will be experiencing I am Honour fo r quite a number of years. As a matter sure over the next little while. I would hope that of fact, my wife and !-mostly my wife-used to she feels comfortable to be able to turn to us as operate a private nursery and kindergarten in our friends of Neil's in a time of need. We will home, and the Liba children when they were remember Mr. Gaudry with the tremendous young-they are now in their 30s, and some of contributions that he has made, and certainly his them have their own children at school age­ mark in history will be here in this House attended this school and always remind us that fo rever. they got their start in education at the McAlpine nursery and kindergarten. I am proud to have the privilege to sit in this Manitoba Legislature and represent the It is a great honour to be able to have the constituency of Sturgeon Creek. I know that all Libas in this role, and I know that they will do members of this side of the House are dedicated an exemplary job fo r the people of Manitobaand to consulting with our constituents to learn first­ the Queen, whom they will be representing. hand what issues are of the greatest importance to Manitobans. This may be my last address as I It is also a great honour to welcome our new represent a good portion of the people of pages back to the Legislature. I know that it is Sturgeon Creek. As you may well know, going to be a real learning experience for them Sturgeon Creek, with the boundary changes, will and one that they will remember fo r probably all no longer exist if the boundaries-if we see the their Jives. It is very challenging at times, and passing of this legislation that was presented to some sessions have a little more activity going us by Elections Manitoba, the independent than others. I know that the last session we had review, which is a constitutional requirement, a year ago was certainly one that will be and I believe that in all respects I think that they remembered by all of us here in this Chamber. I have done a fair and commendable job. It is not expect that there will be nothing like that this an easy task, as you can well imagine, Mr. year. I think that we have probably come to Acting Speaker, fo r this to happen. Certainly understand and realize that that was not the way there are issues that I think we could find in we want to see and demonstrate in this House many respects with-that they could be certainly what went on over the MTS debate. better in many respects. Things that I had concerns with were maintaining the * (1620) communities, the catchment areas of the communities that people have been accustomed I would also like to welcome back our old to fo r many, many years, andju st the traditional colleagues and the new ones. boundaries that each community takes on within their own respective areas. I would like to pay tribute to a long-time colleague who is no longer with us, and it is with As it turns out, I have represented the great sadness that we recognize the absence of Sturgeon Creek constituency fo r the past nine Mr. Neil Gaudry which leaves a great void in years, or almost a full nine years, and that is a our House today, Mr. Acting Speaker. I always constituency that started in 1969. It was the first fe lt that Mr. Gaudry, who represented St. time-and that was through the same process that Boniface, represented the Francophone we are experiencing now, through redistribution. community with great distinction and with It was at the time, in 1969, where we had a very honour. He was well respected in the high population within that areathat we required constituency, and not only in his own the constituencies of Kirkfield Park, Assiniboia constituency but throughout the Francophone and Sturgeon Creek and then St. James. St. 296 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

James has been a constituency that has been in We as a government, Mr. Acting Speaker, place fo r a long time. Sturgeon Creek has only have shown our dedication in our representation, been in existence since 1969. The first member in our work in the area of health care, and to be elected at that particular time was my good representing the constituency of Sturgeon Creek. friend J. Frank Johnston, who still lives in the Many of you may recall that I have mentioned constituency and often frequents this this before, that the health care issues are Legislature. I can tell you, Mr. Acting Speaker, certainly strong and fe lt in the community of Mr. J. Frank Johnston is still a Conservative Sturgeon Creek because it is one of the highest today. I am proud to be able to call him as my populations of seniors within the entire province. friend and a person who is always available to Certainly traditionally, and most people as they give direction and suggestions in my grow older, they tend to require more demand representation to the people of Sturgeon Creek. from the health care services and what is available to them. So consequently there has If I am successful in getting the nomination been some concerns with regard to that. These fo r the new constituency of St. James, which challenges I believe, as fa r as the constituency of will take in about 53 percent of the old Sturgeon Creek, have been met by this constituency and 37 percent of the old St. James government. constituency and about 5 percent, give or take, of the Wellington constituency as it is today, I You know, certainly the opposition tend to will be sorry to lose the westernpart of Sturgeon find fault in everything that is being done, but Creek which takes in the Courts of St. James. needless to say that pretty much goes without There are 754 apartments in the Courts of St. saying. I doubt very much, with this opposition James alone, and that population within that over the last nine years, I have seen this, I cannot complex is probably larger than many small see-they have not done anything diffe rent in the towns in rural Manitoba. Those people were past nine years. I cannot see them doing always very, very supportive and attended anything diffe rent in the next nine or ten years. I functions and participated in activities, and were think they have pretty much laid their course and often free to come up and speak to me and share charted their path with regard to that. Certainly their ideas and share their concerns. It was a when we talk about the comments in reference to very, very friendly and rewarding representation some members, the duke of darkness and the on my part as far as serving those people. prince of doom and gloom, or whatever they are referenced, I think in many cases that is quite I think that what has made my task in accurate in terms of what is being said. representation to these people so easy is because Certainly over the last nine years I would have to of the fact that I feel that I have always been in agree with that. the service business all my life, and serving people is something that I have always enjoyed. * (1630) The thing that has made this so rewarding is the fact of all the good things that this government Mr. Acting Speaker, I think that when we has done, I have seen this government do. I talk about health care, as important as it is to all have received the compliments by people in the jurisdictions, whether it is in Manitoba, area of St. James, Sturgeon Creek for what this Saskatchewan, Alberta, B.C. or Ontario, this is government has done. That is what has made probably one of the biggest challenges that any this so rewarding and easy fo r my part in government, not only in Manitoba or Canada or representing the people there. Certainly our the world fo r that matter-this is the biggest Premier, the Honourable Gary Filmon, and all challenge that we as governments face. When my colleagues on this side of the House have you consider that here we have in this province been very, very co-operative in anything that I of 1.2 million population and a budget of $2 have ever had to do and any task that had to be billion almost, and we are a relatively small dealt with in the constituency. They were province, can you imagine if you multiplied that always able to give me their co-operation and by the number of countries in the world where did everything possible that they could to ensure the populations are certainly significantly higher that the best things were done. than they are in Manitoba, what that health care April I4, I999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 297

budget worldwide would demand? So when you can talk about education that way or we can talk think about that-and this is one of the things that about health care, which I am talking about I have always put some tribute to is the fact that now-when you look at that, the amount of with all this money that is there, you are going t� money that is spent at that level, that upper get people who are attracted to the industry level-and they are the people who administer the because of the fact that people are attracted to funds that we give to them by way of formula. money. So these are the people who are making the decisions. When we talk about health care, Mr. Acting Speaker, we as a society, whether it is right o r Madam Sp eaker in the Chair wrong, look to the medical profession as the s preme authorities when it comes to dealing � I happen to know that one particular CEO of with our health. The member fo r Kildonan (Mr. a major hospital in Winnipeg makes something Chomiak), who is the critic for health care in excess of $320,000, and when you look at stands and criticizes every minister who he h � from the aspect of $320,000 fo r the CEO, what been critic to since I have been here, and the does his assistant get? He gets something less, critic before him and so on and so fo rth. The y but probably in relation and probably always criticize that. Now, if they were in significantly more than the Premier of the government, you tell me that they are going to province would get, or an MLA, as far as we are provide the expertise other than the medical concerned. What happens is that when they profes ion. They are not going to do that. They � organize this level of bureaucracy which the are gomg to get the same advice. We do not boards have done over the years-and the consider ourselves professional and knowledge­ Winnipeg Health Authority and the regional able enough to be able to make decisions on health authorities have yet to deal with a lot of behalf fall Manitobans when it comes to doing ? that and that is going to take some time. It is thmgs_ m the healt h care industry. We rely on probably going to take I 0, IS years to change people who are giving the advice. So where do that whole aspect of it. These are the things that you go? You go to the highest authority like in we have to face as a government. Certainly they any other thing. It is the same thing in will be dealt with, but they will not be dealt with education. overnight. The only thing that we do as a government Now you tell me, Madam Speaker, that the is that we fund the institutions like the Health opposition are all of a sudden going to come in, Sciences Centre or St. Boniface, and that is done as they reference the fact that they are going to by fo rmulas. It has been done for years. We be the next government. They are going to find have increased those budgets every year. As a some higher authority that is going to give them matter of fact, in the last I 0 years, I think it is advice. Well, that is impossible. I have some $700 million we have increased the health care difficulty and difference with the authority as it budget. Now, by increasing that, it certainly has is right now because I think that we have, as I exceeded the rate of inflation. We put more referenced, we have put $700 million more into money into it, but has the health situation our health care budget but we have not fixed changed? Have the waiting lists changed in anything. Yes, people are living longer but they hospitals? No, they have not. Now where is the are not living any healthier, and that is the money going? We as a government- certainly concernthat I have. Unfortunately, the authority the people who are in the administrative that we have, the supreme authority as far as positions have been appointed to these health care is concerned, are taught to treat administrative positions through boards of the disease. You have heard me say this before. We various ospitals, and now we have replaced � should be spending more money on people by boards with the regional health authorities and creating health within society. Until such time the Winnipeg Health Authority and eventually as society comes to the understanding that we that is going to change. have to take responsibility ourselves in order to When you look at the upper level of deal with this challenge and when we do have administration, whether it be in education-we disease it is merely a matter of an imbalance 298 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 within our bodies. Unfortunately, the supreme numbers of the people who responded to these authority when it comes to health care do not health care petitions within the whole area. understand that because they are taught to treat disease with drugs and all those things. I am not * (1640) going to go into that in great detail because that could carry on fo r several hours in itself. Another area that I wanted to talk about is, and this has been the lead question by the Madam Speaker, I think that from the aspect opposition in the last two Question Periods. of what I am saying here with regard to these This is with regard to the Deer Lodge Centre health care challenges, I think one of the biggest with the rethermalized fo ods that the people in challenges that we as a government faced over Deer Lodge have received. This is a seniors the last number of years is the cut in transfer home and certainly I have been fr ont and centre payments fr om the federal government. with regard to that. I went and talked to the Certainly I do not agree that throwing more residents. Some were in favour, some were not. money into this is something that we should be Some people liked it, some did not. Certainly doing, but I certainly fe el that this is something they were fo rtunate in having a fac ility at Deer that we have been doing. You do not change Lodge Centre that had good fo od there and good gears or change situations midstream, which is facilities, but this was one of the things that the what the federal government basically are asking board at the Deer Lodge Centre decided, that the provinces to do by cutting the transfer they are going to go with the USSC and figured payments. We have had to make those funds up that this was what they had to do and ultimately on our own, and we have done very well. I made that decision to go ahead and do that. commend the Finance ministers and the ministers of Health that have had the vision to One of the things that a lot of people do not serve that. know, and people have not brought this out in this Chamber, was the fact that the CEO at the I had the privilege of being able to go door hospital said to me that they did make an to door in the constituency that I represent with administrative mistake when the fact is that they the health care petitions dealing with that very did not computerize the setup before they went issue in terms of trying to get the fe deral on, which he said could take up to a month or government to put more money into the health two months before they would be able to have care budget. You know, constitutionally and everything computerized. So there were lots of back in the early years when the federal mix-ups with regard to patients getting the government and the provincial governments wrong meals and things like that, pureed fo od to were equal partners to health care, that means if somebody who had teeth and those who did not they pay 50 cents on the dollar, we pay 50 cents have teeth were getting com on the cob and on the dollar. Now in 1998, when I was going things like that, just little mistakes. around door to door with the health care petitions, it was amazing the number of people But one of the interesting aspects was that that did not realize that the fe deral government's on the 9th of December, I had the opportunity to share was only 15 cents on the dollar. You take the Sick and Visiting people of the Deer know there were a lot of people that had an Lodge Centre. These are the representatives that opportunity and responded to these petitions in go around to visit the veterans in the Deer Lodge the area of Sturgeon Creek, especially around Centre and actually even beyond in other the Courts of St. James where there are a lot of facilities, but the veterans centre, maybe at home elderly people at the seniors homes and things and things like that. These were people that I like that, and these people responded very had a meeting with and I suggested to them that strongly in saying, listen, this is unfair and we what we should do is to go and have a tour of the have to be able to deal with this. Within two USSC facility. They took me up on that, and weeks we had something like 19,000 people who certainly on the 9th of December I, along with signed these petitions. Through the efforts that I nine members from the Legion Sick and Visiting had, and certainly I had people who were and other members and three members of the working with me on this, I had one of the highest executive of the Manitoba Society of Seniors April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 299

also came along, after a tour of the facility, we nutritional value in them at all. I cannot argue were given a choice of a meal, which was the with what USSC is attempting to do. same meal that was being made up as we were touring, and we had an opportunity to see how Another aspect that we have, as far as I they were made up and went through the whole fo und out with the Deer Lodge people, was the aspect of it. fact that a lot of these people do not understand in some respects the importance of the food This was a report on fo od sampling, and I when it comes to them. It comes through USSC am just going to reference just some of the at 10:30 in the morning for their noon meal. comments that they made. This was in the What happens is it is the responsibility of the Manitoba Society of Seniors newspaper. It was facility to plug that unit in to heat the food to the January issue, for anybody who wants to whatever is needed, which takes about 20 look at this: On December 7 three members of minutes to half an hour to rethermalize the food the board of directors of the Manitoba Society of and to be ready for serving. Seniors-and they mention their names-were part of this tour and it was interesting to learn that­ They talked about fr ozen foods. Well, the this is what they were saying-it was interesting reason that they may have been frozen was to learn that 53 percent of the fo od comes from because of the fact that somebody, who maybe Manitoba and that the toast is prepared at had another agenda, forgot to plug in the unit. Riverview Health Centre. Potatoes come from Naturally, if that was the case, then they were Carberry when available, and bread and buns going to have frozen fo ods. Some of the people come fr om a Steinbach bakery. who were there from the legion and on this tour on the 7th of December, after they had eaten the This was all through the heat of the debate meal-and as I mentioned to you, there were two and the local media and the papers were on this choices of the meal that were offered to us, issue along with the NDP criticizing, but very which is what they had in Deer Lodge or any fe w of them actually went out and really got to other facility that was under the USSC program. the bottom of this, which is what we were able to These visiting members from the legion said, do by taking this tour. well, if this is what these people are being served-and these are people, the veterans I will just finish off here, Madam Speaker, themselves-they certainly had nothing to by saying that they summed up and they said complain about. Those were their exact words, that the food served our tour group was a choice Madam Speaker. between a veal patty meal with potatoes, green beans, soup and Bundt cake, milk and juice, or I would challenge the opposition members, pasta manicotti. The group seemed to agree that if they really want to speak the truth, that they the meals served were eye-appealing, nutritional should go on a tour maybe of USSC and see and tasty. This tour was also attended by nine exactly, instead of going out and talking to the members of Deer Lodge Veterans Association is union bosses at these facilities and getting the what they referenced. wrong impression. I think there is something seriously wrong with that. One of the things that I fo und in going to Deer Lodge Centre and having an opportunity to talk to the various people there is that I think our The issues with regard to these challenges responsibility, or USSC's responsibility, is to that we will meet as we make changes in this ensure that they provide nutritional meals to aspect as far as food services are certainly going these people. In many respects a lot of them to be there, regardless of how hard we try. I can have complaints with the fact that the fo od may assure you that from what I see, as far as the be undercooked and undercooked because of the colleagues on this side of the House, we are fact that the vegetables may be a little-they are caring individuals. Certainly we are going to do certainly not overcooked, which, I think, is a lot the best possible job that we can to ensure that healthier than the way some of these people like they get the best service that they possibly can them cooked to mush so that there is no andto get the best food that is available to them. 300 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

One of the things, and I think that certainly that subscribes to that rather than overextending this is a lot better, and this is one of the aspects­ and overburdening the medical profession to the the reference was made by some of the veterans­ extent that they are and the hospital institutions was the fact that Deer Lodge, I think it was on a and so on and so fo rth. 14-day cycle, and under this new system here they are on a 21-day cycle, which is certainly a Madam Speaker. this government has also considerable improvement for the people and the done a considerable amount in respecting our recipients of this food. Certainly, I am not going senior citizens with regard to observing to say that all these things are perfect because International Year of Older Persons in 1999, and nothing, from my point of view, we are going to this is an incredible celebration. We are find is perfect. There are always going to be recognizing the efforts of those. people that some people that are going to complain. helped build this province to what it is today. Those that were born ahead of us worked very hard to develop the land and to start companies, It is interesting to note, Madam Speaker, to build the economic engines that drive this that at the time I did this tour I think there was a province and to develop opportunities fo r our survey that was done, and it was something like children and fo r ourselves. 82 percent of the people who were on this service throughout the fa cilities within the city of Winnipeg were in approval of the service. We can learn from our seniors, Madam The food that they were getting, which was a lot Speaker, our fam ilies and our communities and different than what they were getting before, I benefit fr om what they have to offer, and think it was something like 57 percent or certainly I often will take the time to spend time something like that, so there has definitely been talking to the senior residents in the constituency an improvement in that aspect of it. that I represent. Certainly they are very fr ee with advice and it is always very good advice. Madam Speaker, as I have indicated, the To fu rther show our respect to our senior health care challenges we face go right across citizens though, the government recently this country, and it is something we are as a introduced the elder abuse hotline and the public government committed to ensure the best health information campaign, both of which will inform care product is provided. Certainly if we look at the public about the unacceptable issue that we the money aspect, if we can use that as a gauge, face in society today. I am sure that this is when we put almost 35 percent of our budget something that has always gone on. This is not into every health care aspect as far as the people something that is new. We just probably did not of Manitoba are concerned, I think that is hear about a lot of these things, but we will not certainly a measure that is worth mentioning. stand fo r any physical or psychological or financial abuse of our seniors. I commend the * (1650) minister and our government for the position that they are taking on this issue. With the advances in technology and the aging populations, our government will have new challenges and opportunities to meet, and I The young people of Manitoba are also have no doubt that we are going to meet them. considered very important-Madam Speaker, you Certainly the nine years that I have been here, it have demonstrated to me that I have two minutes has been a fairly good test of time. I think that left to speak. I just wondered whether there was over time, as we have increased the number of an error in your calculation or your clock is home care beds in this province by 600 beds, we running a little fa st. Maybe you oiled it up a are working to reduce these waiting lists. It will little bit more than you should have before I certainly make a considerable difference in started to speak. Well, I did not know that I was achieving that goal in trying to find some speaking that slow, but certainly it has been a balance within the health care challenges that we great privilege for me to be able to speak on the are going to meet as a government, and to throne speech, and certainly there are issues here promote a province as healthy living in a society that I would like to have addressed. April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 301

One of the things that I really enjoyed, and I Save the Queen, and that was very pay tribute to the St. Andrews Society and the disappointing. As long as we are in this system, Scottish societies that have certainly supported parliamentary system that is based on a me over the years in bringing in Tartan Day on monarchy, I think we should respect that April 6 to the province of Manitoba. position, respect the Queen's representatives, so I Unfortunately, we did not have an opportunity to think we should be very cognizant of the fact enjoy that celebration this year, and there were a that we are under a monarchy. Jot of plans that went into it. Next, I would like to welcome the pages. I I would just like to remind the members hope you have an interesting time. I have run opposite, as they supported what was going on, into a number of former pages here, some of on the 6th of April and seemed to condone that whom are using my name as a reference on their type of action, they also removed a Jot of people job applications, and I can tell you that, speaking who came here or wanted to come here to on their behalf, many of them enjoyed what they celebrate Tartan Day, which is something that did. They learned a great deal. There were they were deprived of. I do apologize to these times here where some of the pages, when things organizations on behalf of everybody here in the got a little bit loud and boisterous, it was a Legislature, Madam Speaker, for that happening, challenging position. We appreciate the service but that will go on next year. you provide for us, and I hope it is a benefit to you. Madam Speaker, I know that my time has expired, and I will have another opportunity to Next of all, I would like to welcome the new put some more comments on the record. Thank Sergeant-at-Arms, Mac Allen. I knew the you. present Sergeant-at-Arms back when he was still on the police force. When I started on the police Mr. Gary Kowalski (The Maples): As the force, he was a patrol sergeant in the traffic other departing members, I anticipate this being division, and he used to drive around the city of my last opportunity to speak to a throne speech. Winnipeg in his traffic motorcycle wearing a I am going to ask for great latitude, because I big heavy leather coat. have not prepared a speech. I will be speaking from the heart. It will be melancholy. It will be reflective ofwhat the past six years have meant I have told this story to some people, and I to me and the people around me. I hope there still remember when I was going through recruit will be a thread here, talking about good class, we used to go to class for half a day and representation, partisanship, and the honour then they would put us out on the street for half a involved and the respect for all members of this day. I remember coming in and I had given out Legislature. a parking ticket, and patrol sergeant Mac Allen, in front of a number of other officers, indicated First of all, I would like to mention the new we are going to have Show and Tell now. We Lieutenant Governor, Peter Liba. I wish him are going to show Kowalski how to tell time, best of luck in his new position. Yvon Dumont because I had improperly written the wrong time has done a wonderful job as Lieutenant on the parking ticket. Governor and I am sure Peter Liba will carry on many of the things that Yvon Dumont has * (1700) started and will start his own projects. I look forward to him serving as the Queen's The benefit to me was after that experience, representative in Manitoba. an embarrassment, I do not think I ever wrote the wrong time on any document in the 25 years I was disappointed, and I wanted to take the I have been on the Winnipeg Police Service. So high ground, but I have to say I was I thank him for the help he gave me there. I disappointed when he was here for the opening wish him good luck in this position and I hope of the throne speech, there were a number of he enjoys it. I am sure he will show great members whom I noticed chose not to sing God honour and dignity to the position. 302 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

Next of all, in the six years that I have been consider her my best friend and confidante. I here there are many people in this building who have to say that during this process I could have have helped me, and sometimes I do not think not gotten to this point without her help and some ofthe members appreciate it. I have never assistance. I am not talking just as an MLA, but had the experience of being in a large caucus. in my career when I was doing community At the most, I have been a caucus of seven with service, she was there to help and support me, to limited resources, so I think maybe out of advise me. Quite often when I would be sympathy sometimes some of the staff have intemperate, as I have a tendency to be maybe bended the rules, have gone above and sometimes, she was the calming influence. beyond the call of duty to help me in my Quite often I heard the member fo r Steinbach position as the representative fo r The Maples. I (Mr. Driedger) say that he thought his wife got want to thank the Clerk and the Clerk's office, more votes fo r him than he did, and I have to say the Journals Clerk, the Hansard staff, the the same thing about my wife Ellen. maintenance staff, the security staff who many times when I am here late at night have been We share our interests in the community of both there for conversation, company, and The Maples. We raised our daughter there. It is assistance. the only village that she has known, the village of The Maples. She shares an interest in youth. Also, I would like to thank my colleagues We do not always agree on everything. She here. I fo und that even though we are from comes from Souris, Manitoba, which was Walter different parties, many times I have gotten Dinsdale country, so sometimes maybe she is a advice and help from members of the other little bit more right-wing than I am, but, as I parties, as well as members fr om my own party. said, many times she stayed at home and put her own career aspirations aside, her own political Now to get here required a great deal of aspirations aside, her own community service effort, and two of the people who I would like to aspirations so I could do what I have done, and I thank-and I am keeping in mind that this is hope some day that I will be able to help her in being recorded in Hansard and maybe 25 years the same way that she has helped me. from now, maybe 50 years from now my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren will be reading this, so it is as much for their edification My daughter Tanya, well, since she was 12 as for anyone else. I want them to know that my years old, I have been in politics, and she is now parents, their future grandparents, how much 18 and in university. I still remember when I they helped me to get here. I am not talking just first got elected, she was teased at school a little about the help they gave me in the election but bit that now you are rich because your daddy is the work ethic that they taught me, the morals, an MLA-yes, public perception as to us the principles that they instilled upon me, most politicians. In fa ct, I had taken a cut in pay important that I was as good as any other person between being a school trustee and a police that enabled me to stand up here and represent officer to take this position. But there were the people from The Maples. benefits. She said there were a number of times she was at parties and that, and she was offered An Honourable Member: And Mom makes drugs and that, and she said she knew that other great perogies. kids were looking at her to see what would the MLA's daughter do. Maybe that helped her Mr. Kowalski: Kevin, who is a great fan of my make the right decision sometimes, and I would mom's perogies and was my campaign manager, like to think that she had the benefit of that. The ate many of them in my first campaign. The other day when I talked about that she might be member for Inkster gives credit to my mom's a little bit prouder to say that I am a police perogy-making abilities. officer than a politician, that was not to say that she has ever been ashamed of me. I have always Then, of course, my wife, some of you may had her support and hope I can support her in the know that my wife and I have been living same way. So, for Tanya, thank you for all the separate and apart for three years now, but I still support you have given. April l4, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 303

Next, my colleague from Inkster. If there is police force. I could tell you that a number of any person that I would choose to be my cruiser people are very disappointed and have actually car partner, it would be the member for Inkster almost been angry with me for making this (Mr. Lamoureux). He is not the largest member decision, but I am not irreplaceable. I am sure in stature, but as one of my first partners on the there are other good people that will carry on police fo rce, Graham La Grandeur [phonetic], some of the work I have started and start things used to say, it is not the size of the dog in a fight, that will benefitthe community. it is the size of the fight in the dog. Kevin has heart. I hope some day that he gets all the * (1710) respect, which is a great deal of respect, from the party which he belongs to, that we belong to. I During the time that I have been an MLA, think he is still the most undervalued asset to the the partof the job that I have enjoyed the most is Liberal Party of Manitoba, and I hope some day being a community leader. The part of the job the Liberal Party acknowledges that, where we that I enjoyed most was the projects that were would be without his participation, and I hope done in The Maples. In each one of those some day he will receive that. projects, I was, if nothing else, the lightening rod fo r the people who were able to do the things that come together. One of the strongest was Many members who have spoken before me Doug Simpson. It would not matter what have talked about my colleague, the late Neil community project, whether it was to open up a Gaudry. I will not pretend that Neil Gaudry and police store front office, whether it was to start I did not have our difficulttimes. Neil and I had The Maples Youth Services Canada Project, no our disputes but we also had our good times, and matter what project, Doug was there as a maybe that could serve as a Jesson to all of us, volunteer, an active community member, along that when we use intemperate words, take with Ken Jensen and Mohindar Singh. They are intemperate actions, the ramifications. Neil all people that like in most communities there passed away and I hope that some of the are a fe w people who do most of the volunteer difficulties between us, we were able to patch work. I would like to thank them fo r giving me them up to some extent, not to the fullest extent. the opportunity to show leadership in those I hope some day that things that he did to me projects. will be truly fo rgiven and things that I did to him will be truly forgiven. I wish his wife Leona and You know, talking about Neil Gaudry, it his fam ily best wishes. If anything is a lesson to reminds me that we, as 57 people in here, are all of us in this Legislature-that we are human like a family. The member for Radisson (Ms. beings, and some day all of us will no longer be Cerilli) had a baby during this time. We have MLAs, and we will see each other in the street, had a death. We have had marriages. We have we will see each other in business, we will see had separations. You know, we are like any each other in the nursing home, you know, I large family. I know from the Kowalski family, hope that we can look each other straight in the where there are 12 brothers and sisters, and the eye and be proud of what we did and not fe el Kolczycki family on my mother's side, that they any shame as to what we said to each other. are an example. I have been to many family events where there were large discussions. I My next thank you is to the voters of The would not actually call them fist fights, but by Maples, who have twice given me the mandate the end of the day, they were close, and if to represent them. Maybe in arrogance I could anybody tried to say anything negative about say I feel that the support is still there for me, anybody in the fam ily, the rest of the family but I had to make this decision to go back to the would come to their defence. I hope that as a police fo rce for personal reasons. My leave of family in the profession of politicians, as absence runs out, and politics is not a secure individuals, we are all respected in our future, police work is. I came into politics for a communities and people respect us, but as a while to do some good things. I hope I have had profession, sometimes the respect fo r politicians a benefit to my community and to Manitoba. has gone down. I said that in my Matter of Now it is time to go back to the security of the Privilege earlier in this session. I still believe it. 304 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

If you listed a number of professions and parents that they bring to our community, the asked them to rank which ones they respected passion that they do whatever they do, I have most, unfortunately politicians are lower than really enjoyed. They made me feel a lot they should be, because I have a lot of respect younger, so I have enjoyed that. for the people who, when it comes to say who will be the leaders of our community, that are The member for Inkster reminds me about willing to put their names forward, who are the antiracism projects that The Maples willing to stand here and have everything they Collegiate has done, from the antiracism walk say put on record for history, to be criticized, to that they have done every year from The Maples put fo rward an idea, to put so much of their lives Collegiate to the Legislature to the conference into this. I have a lot of respect fo r the that they have had, but I can tell you, that was individuals who represent their communities one of the goals I had that I was not able to here, but as politicians we have to do something accomplish. I was looking to help racial to raise the public's perception of the honour and harmony in The Maples. Although we have dignity for public service. people from all over the world living in The Maples, from the Philippines, from India, from When I was elected in '93, I was elected Poland, from the Slavic countries, you would along with Norma McCormick, Harold think that because we all live as neighbours that Schellenberg, the member fo r St. Johns (Mr. we would all learn to live well with each other, Mackintosh), and the member fo r Rupertsland but in fa ct we still have racial solitudes. I think (Mr. Robinson). After this election, if the voters knowing from past history of the Ukrainian return them, the member fo r St. Johns and the immigration, the Polish immigration in the member for Rupertsland will be the only two country, I think the only thing that is going to remaining ones, so I wish them best luck and to solve that is just time, as diffe rent generations continue serving the people they represent. I integrate into the community and the community have to say that the member fo r Rupertsland learns more about them, but that is something always makes me fe el guilty because I remember that I wish I could have been more successful when I first stood here on my first throne speech with. I talked about the conduct of members and about the heckling and I said that I would never do could tell you that, as an MLA, I have that. Well, I think if anyone has been listening, I never been that partisan as an MLA here. I can think I have not kept that commitment, but the tell you, during my darker days here, when I was member for Rupertsland, to the most part, I do having trouble with the leader, Ginny not think I have ever heard him heckle, and I see Hasselfield, I seriously considered becoming a every time he stands up to ask a question, this member of the opposition or a member of the Chamber is silent because he gets the respect government party, and when I recently did a because he gives the respect, and I think he gives survey of the people in The Maples, I asked the them great latitude because he shows respect fo r question: do you agree or disagree that this Chamber so he gets it back. Maybe that is politicians are too partisan and spend too much an example for all of us. If we want to be time representing their political parties? Madam listened to and heard and our ideas be Speaker, 82 percent of the people said: yes, acknowledged, we should show respect for this politicians are too partisan. Then I asked: institution. which of the fo llowing should be the first consideration of an elected MLA when deciding As the MLA fo r The Maples, some of the how to vote in the Legislature? Policy of things that I am proud that I have been involved political party? That only received 5 percent of in, the No. 1 thing was working with the youth the responses. Personal opinion and beliefs of of The Maples. It did not matter if it was with the MLA? Only 12 percent. Wishes of the The Maples Youth Justice Committee or the majority of constituents? Madam Speaker, 84 Youth Services Canada project that we ran for percent. So I do not make apologies for not two years, I have enjoyed working with the being that partisan. I remember a quote, and I young people of The Maples. The work ethic do not remember who said it. It was one of the that many of them who come from immigrant former presidents of the United States who said: April l4, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 305

He who serves his community serves his party telling us what to say, which directions to go. best. I think we should all remember that. Then we look at someone else who has raised a When we are representing our constituents, the lot of funds, and they get the glory positions, the best interests of our constituents, we are in fact Senate seats, the government contracts, whether helping our political parties, and that should be it be provincial or federal. So remember-and I our firstconsid eration. should not be lecturing to the honourable members here-but remember your first loyalty Sometimes the world seems topsy-turvy as should be to your constituents and the people far as political parties. Does it really matter? If who elect you because you are serving your I look at what is going on in Saskatchewan right partywell when you look afteryour constituents. now, I heard today-the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) and I were coming back from City I can say that there are parts of this job of Hall, and we were listening to an interview-they being an MLA that I have really enjoyed. I have had the nurses' union in Regina. She was talking not enjoyed being a critic. That is the part of the how the provincial government in the last eight job I hated most because I have a tendency to try years has failed to listen to the social activist to get people to like me. So why would I want groups, has failed to listen to the unions because to point to someone whom I like and say you are they were only fo cused on deficit cutting. I doing everything wrong? I guess this is thought, what province am I in? Was this the probably politically incorrect, but the Minister of Manitoba Nurses' Union? No, this was the Justice (Mr. Toews) in many ways, I think-many Saskatchewan Union ofNurses. And then I look of the things he is doing, he is doing very well in in Manitoba, and here we have a Conservative the justice system. I have been active in the governmentna tionalizing a gas company. I said, justice system as a volunteer, as a police officer, okay, that is usually what a socialist government and I have seen what the Minister of Justice has does. Okay. done with the youth justice committees. The support he has given to them has allowed them When I look across the country at the to expand, to receive notoriety, to get more diffe rent provincial governments, does it really trained opportunities, and I think that they feel matter which party is in power? Regardless of that they have the support of the Minister of what the philosophical base, in governing, Justice. governments are doing what has to be done. We are affected by global fo rces. You know, really, I look at things that are happening as far as regardless of our philosophical basis, whether it fam ily group conf erencing, things that are is Roy Romanow in Saskatchewan, whether it is happening as far as restorative justice programs. Jean Chretien in Ottawa or whether it is- Where I really fe lt it was having an impact, and possibly an impact on some of the things that I * (1720) have been saying here on the greater society, was when I went to the fo rum at Valley Gardens An Honourable Member: Brian Mulroney in the Valley Gardens area that the Minister of Justice (Mr. Toews) put on about the young Mr. Kowalski: Brian Mulroney, all of them are offenders legislation. doing similar things. So, again, I think I will never apologize fo r not being that partisan. I I was expecting to hear in these public will look, always do what I think is in the best forums a lot of victims to talk about bringing interests of my constituents and what is in the back the lash, coming on with more stem-there best interests of Manitoba. I would encourage are a lot more young people out for longer all people to do that because sometimes I feel periods of time. In fact, that is not what came that as elected politicians, sometimes we are from the public. That is not what came at all. I nothing more than cannon fo dder fo r the movers attended the one at Burton Cummings, and there and shakers in our political parties. They get the was a familiar theme. People talked about patronage; they get the contracts. We are the looking at the root causes of crime. They saw ones that are put up front, while others get the the futility of locking young people up in rewards and that. Often our political parties are training grounds fo r crime. They talked about 306 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

other ways of looking at crime other than that, if Inkster and I have recently contributed to a you punish them hard enough, they will not literacy program that will be run at the Sikh commit crimes. So I was heartened by that. temple for ESL classes, and I have had the opportunity to help the Sikh seniors find a I would caution the Leader of the meeting place in The Maples. Opposition (Mr. Doer) right now. Some time ago I read the autobiography of Bob Rae. He I am leaving this place optimistic. I do not talked about the difference between a party of want to be doom and gloom about the future. protest or a party in power. He talked about how Especially young people, I think they need to easy it is in opposition to agree with every hear optimistic comments. As I said, one of the special interest group, to agree with every things that made me optimistic was attending the professional union, to agree with every lobby Valley Gardens justice fo rum and hearing the group; but then, once you are in power, all of a enlightened debate from the public. The other sudden you have to start looking, you have thing is I drive around The Maples right now and limits. You cannot be everybody's best friend. the number of help wanted signs I see. I have Bob Rae saw what happened. He saw what never seen so many help wanted signs in my life. happened when financial conditions were Some people could comment that they are low­ difficult. He had to say no to some of the unions paying service jobs, but they are jobs, and fo r and how the unions turned on him. So I would many people they can make a difference. For caution the Leadet of the Opposition to be every low-paying service job, if there is enough careful what he is saying to the unions. Be of them, it is going to create higher paying jobs. careful what he is saying to the special interest When I was first elected in '93, many of the groups, because if he is forming government he people who walked into my constituency office, could end up being in the same position that Bob many of the problems that they had, when I Rae was in Ontario. really examined what was at the root of them it was unemployment. Many of the social ills are Today I had an opportunity to look at the cured with a job. Right now, in fact, you see latest brochure, the franking piece that my help wanted signs all over. In fact, what is colleague from Inkster is going to put out, and it happening is some of the people who pay people is about health care in Manitoba. It is headed by at minimum wage and do not treat their saying that all parties in government are having employees well are findingthat they will have to difficulty with health care. He has some quotes. change their policies because there is such a From PC Ontario, he has quoted from the demand fo r employees that they have to treat Toronto Star: Health cuts killed my wife, their employees well, go above the minimum grieving husband wants an inquest. Then in wage. So job creation has a benefit, not only to NDP Saskatchewan, Tumour victim claims MRI the financial economy of my community of The tests denied, from the Regina Leader Post. From Maples but to the social climate in The Maples. the Liberals in Newfoundland, Nurses walk the I also want to speak about the boundaries. I picket line for improved working conditions. know I started this session with a matter of privilege, and as I said then it was a matter of So, once again, we have to look at principle that we should not have an election on partisanship and how it affects us all. The other old boundaries that are undemocratic. Every day pleasure I have had as an MLA, of course, is you I am still concerned that it could still happen. attend a number of cultural events, and I have People are having nomination meetings. There gone from the Buddhist temple to--I have gone to is no guarantee that a government member could eat foods that I had no idea what was in them. It not change his or her view and end up voting has been a wonderful experience actually. One against the government as in a snap election on group thatI have come to be very close to is the old boundaries. So I still encourage the Sikh community in The Maples. In fact, I and opposition to co-operate fully to pass that the member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) and the boundaries legislation as soon as possible. Minister of Immigration, Herb Dhaliwal, were given the robe of honour at the Sikh temple. We I have another note here about special have done some work in there. The member for interest groups. It was something that the April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 307 member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) pointed of this province and maintaining a focus on their out to me, the difference between Ed Schreyer priorities-a strong economy, quali health care, �. when he was the Premier and Howard Pawley, safe communities and opportumties for our and how Ed Schreyer did seem to have the young people. ability to say no to special interest groups but So as we begin our Fifth Session of the Howard Pawley did not. As a result, we were Thirty-sixth Legislature, our government has set put in some difficult financial positions under his out on a road map for building upon our administration. previous successes and ensuring t�at M�itobans remain strong well into the new mtllenmum. We So I want to wish all the members here good recognize that our province is at a strategic luck in the future. They have a very important junction in its development. To meet the task to take this province into the next challenges of today and continue on a road of millennium. It is fu nny, I thought every speech growth and prosperity, we must focus on the would start with something about the next future and on policies that will move us fo rward, millennium. In fact, I am quite pleased that and to bring this province to the strong economic people have not worn out that phrase We are : state that we applaud today, our government going into a new century and whoever IS elected, made a commitinent to eliminate the deficits and re-elected, has an important task. I encourage tackle the debt load, and we have kept this you to represent your constitue ts and he � . � commitment. province, sometimes put your partisan politics behind to do what is best for the provmce of This year, we will introduce our fifth Manitoba. Thank you. consecutive balanced budget, and, Madam Speaker, we have begun to make payments on * (1730) our debt. Our government recognized the importance of firm fiscal management, of living Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimli): Madam Speaker, within our means. We understand that we must certainly it is my honour to rise today before the spend our resources efficiently today- members of this Legislature and respond to the Speech fr om the Throne. An Honourable Member: Wisely. Before I begin, I certainly would like to pay Mr. Helwer: -and wisely, in order to secure tribute to the late Neil Gaudry, the member for long-term wealth and to pass on a strong and St. Boniface, who was our colleague and prosperous province to the next generation. certainly our friend. Mr. Gaudry was certainly Wise fiscal management has allowed our an exemplary member of this Legislature and government to maintain a freeze on all major will be remembered for his dedication and taxes for the last 11 years, and this is the longest tireless work on behalf of the people of St. running tax freeze in Canada, and Manitobans Boniface and the Francophone community in today enjoy one of the lowest tax regimes in the Manitoba. country. In the coming months the people of Through legislation, we have ensured that Manitoba, like those around the world, will be our future decision to raise major taxes lies in planning celebrations to mark the start of a new the hands of all Manitobans. Our government millennium. As they look toward the future, recognizes the people of this province as Manitobans can also celebrate being citizens of a partners in governing, and we believe that they province that has grown stronger and more should have a say over how their hard-earned prosperous each year. From the moment our income is spent. We do believe that they should government took office we have worked in never again be subject to the high taxes and the partnership with Manitobans to make our deficit spending that took place during the NDP province the best place to live, to work, to invest regime. and the best place to raise a family. I am proud to say that we have reached many of our goals By putting our financial house in order, our and have done so always listening to the people government has contributed to an environment 308 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999 that has supported impressive economic growth II years has gone towards these priority areas. in Manitoba. In 1998, Manitoba tied with Health care is the No. I spending priority in the Alberta for the lowest unemployment rate in the budget. Our government has embarked on country, 5.7 percent, which is also the lowest several important mitJatiVes to ensure unemployment rate that Manitoba has seen in the Manitobans enjoy a first-class health care system last 18 years. In the first months of I999, we now and in the future. continue to post the lowest unemployment rate in Canada. and our youth unemployment rate is Recognizing that early detection and also the lowest in the country, at about 10 treatment are key to reducing the number of percent, far below the national average of I5.I deaths fr om breast cancer, in I995 our percent. government began the Manitoba Breast Screening Program for women. This year the Another sign of the health of our economy is program took an important step forward with the that all Manitoba's job creation has been found addition of two mobile mammography units that in the private sector, with particularly strong have been taking the screening program to growth in manufacturing. In fact, our province women in Manitoba's rural communities. today ranks third in manufacturing job creation in Canada. Our strong performance in job This initiative has already reached over creation goes hand in hand with the fact that 4,000 women in 24 rural and northern Manitoba's private sector has experienced seven communities, and this entire program is expected consecutive years of steady growth of new to screen 33,000 women in I999. As outlined in capital investments, and this investment has the throne speech, our government is taking helped our economy continue to diversify over steps to prepare a health care system to meet the the past year and is fu eling a strong export challenges of an aging population. The reality sector. In I998, our global exports rose by 6.2 for the coming years is that there will be a percent over the previous year, and fo r five greater need fo r long-term health care beds in consecutive years this province has outpaced the Manitoba. and we must start planning today to national average in export growths. In fact, ensure that the best possible use is made of Manitoba was the only western province to post available space. export growth in I998. * (1740) Within the Gimli constituency, Madam Increasing the capacity of our long-term care Speaker, economic growth has also been quite centres means a space within our hospitals can evident. For example, building permits have be directed to acute care and easing problems of increased this past year in the town of Teulon, overcrowding. In the course of this year, some also in the Rural Municipality of Rockwood, and 650 new long-term health care beds have been in the town of Stonewall. Building permits have approved for construction. In addition, over actually almost doubled in the R.M. of $I70 million has been committed to capital Rockwood from I997, and they have seen projects to renovate existing health care facilities increases for the last I 0 years in the R.M. of and to build new care centres. Rockwood and the town of Stonewall. Stonewall is still our fastest growing community In my constituency of Gimli, the funding is in Manitoba. supporting the conversion of the Johnson Memorial Hospital in Gimli to provide more So our government's management of the functional space within the facility. Other budget, taxes and debt reduction has allowed us important projects around the province include to continue to expand our investment in those the installation of a dialysis unit at the Ashern areas most important to all Manitobans: health hospital and the construction of new personal care, children and families, and education. care homes in several rural communities, such as Oakbank and Fisher Branch in the Interlake area. Madam Speaker, 90 percent of each additional dollar that our government has put Within Winnipeg, major projects at into program expenditure increase over the past Misericordia and the Concordia will create some April 14, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 309

240 long-term care beds. The recent we prepare our young people to be leaders in our advancements in medical technology have communities fo r our industries and fo r our revolutionized the delivery of health care and governments. This is why our government have opened up new possibilities fo r diagnosis continues to make education a top priority. In and fo r treatment. To ensure that Manitobans in fact, our spending on education and training is all corners of this province have access to the second only to health, and our government has latest medical technology, this year our made it a priority to target resources to those government provided an additional $5 million to areas that will best prepare our young people to the regional health authorities, this on top of the compete and succeed in the workforce of the annual commitment of some $22 million fo r future. specialized equipment purchases. This is fo r state-of-the-art equipment to enhance the As we have heard in the throne speech, the medical monitoring, diagnosis, surgery, and also information technology software sectors in fo r cancer treatment. Manitoba are expanding, as is the use of computers and technology in all areas of the With this fu nding, Manitobans can be economy. For these reasons, our schools must assured that they are achieving the most up-to­ offer students access to the latest technology and date care from their health care system. During also offer them the opportunity to develop strong this session, our government will continue with computer skills from an early age. Funding important health care reforms that will ensure increases by our government are bringing about the system best serves Manitobans well into the more computers in the classroom, providing next millennium. New legislation fo r nurses, additional Internet linkages so our students can physiotherapists will better reflect their roles in Jearn to master the World Wide Web, and today's health care system and will take the helping students acquire curriculum-based positive step of enhancing public representation technology. on their governing bodies. Students in my constituency will benefit Madam Speaker, ensuring a healthy and from a $48,000 grant to the Interlake School happy start in life fo r all of Manitoba's children Division, which is fo r wiring and cabling in is another goal our government has worked schools to support more computers and diligently to meet and to continue to hold as a computer networks, and $40,000 in funding to major priority. This year the BabyFirst program establish a science and technology resource expanded to reach infants and their families in centre at Stonewall Collegiate. all parts of the province, including those in the Interlake, where the program is being operated Madam Speaker, we know that the quality of by the Interlake Regional Health Authority. our children's education also depends on the BabyFirst provides outreach services to parents environment that we can offer them inside their of children at risk and teaches them the skills schools. Renovations, upgrading and that they need to care fo r an infant. replacement of aging facilities are important to providing a top-notch education to our children. Just last week our government announced Through the capital support program, an addition some fu nding of $2.7 million to give Manitoba will soon be made available to the Stonewall children an improved access to physiotherapy, Collegiate, and other major renovations that will occupational speech and language therapy, be made are in the works for the Gimli including another $125,000 fo r the Interlake Early/Middle Years School. The Gimli program Regional Health Authority. Madam Speaker, is under the Aging Buildings Program. Our these kinds of programs offer children with government is also committed to building a new disabilities more independence and greater elementary school at Winnipeg Beach in the opportunities to participate in their schools and coming year. The tenders fo r that one should be in their communities. out shortly.

The overall health of our province in the So our government recognizes that the future will depend on how we educate and how successful education of our young people must 310 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April l4, 1999 involve a partnership between the province, means that we must continue to do what we can schools and parents. Madam Speaker, we have do as a government to support the continuing worked hard to strengthen the role of parents in expansion and diversification of our economy. school-based decision making through the creation of advisory councils, by providing Our government has committed to lower information to parents through newsletters, taxes to ensure that Manitoba remains parent guides on curriculum, and regular competitive in today's global economy. Without meetings with parent groups. In fact, just this this change, Manitoba will lose new industries to last month, I had the pleasure of attending a other jurisdictions, and along with that we will meeting along with our Minister of Education, lose the most skilled and educated members of the Honourable Mr. McCrae, with parents to our workforce. So, Madam Speaker, an hear their ideas for improvement of the additional way that we can help to ensure that education system. This meeting was held in our province continues to attract new industry Stonewall. This fe edback will help us to shape and investment is to invest in Manitoba's future initiatives, so they will best meet the infrastructure. needs of our children. Our government has made a strong So as the use of technology in the home and commitment to improving our highways, which workplace continues to expand, we must is evident in several highway projects over the continue to shift toward a knowledge-based last year in the Gimli constituency. Some $2.6 economy. The idea that education should not million was invested in widening and end at high school graduation becomes even resurfacing Highway 9 from Willow Creek north more important. Providing Manitobans with to Gimli. A $3-million upgrading of a 16- opportunities for post-secondary education and kilometre section of Highway 8 fr om training will not only help them to find Clandeboye to Highway 17 was completed, and meaningful work but will help Manitoba to Highway 67 to Oak Hammock was built at a cost attract highly skilled industry, contributing to the of $1.1 million. These highway projects, overall wealth of our province. As outlined in Madam Speaker, are all very important to us and the throne speech, Madam Speaker, our to all Manitobans and like the many others that government is working to expand and enhance have been completed around the province not opportunities for skills upgrading and to ensure only support the fu rther expansion of industry that critical skill shortages are addressed. but also make our roads safer and create more jobs fo r Manitobans. It is estimated that our Our government also recognized that our investment in highway construction over the young people need positive incentives to next two years will generate some 3,500 jobs in encourage them to pursue a post-secondary this province. education, so we have committed another $25 million over the next five years to the Manitoba Another important infrastructure project Scholarship and Bursary Initiative. This fund completed in the past year was the twinning of will match contributions by private donors and Brookside Blvd. from Inkster north to the corporate partners and will benefit up to I 0,000 Perimeter Highway. This was a joint project of college and university students each year, and the province, the City of Winnipeg and the this funding will go a long way toward keeping fe deral government under the Canada-Manitoba our best and our brightest students right here in Infrastructure Works Program. This project will Manitoba. facilitate the movement of cargo to and from the Winnipeg International Airport helping our

* (1750) efforts to establish Winnipeg and the surrounding area as an international Keeping our top students in Manitoba as transportation and distribution hub. So the they enter the workforce is another important completion of this project was also welcomed by goal for ensuring a strong future for this many of my constituents who use Brookside province. We must be able to offer them Blvd. as a main travel route in and out of challenging and diverse job opportunities, which Winnipeg. The expansion to four lanes has April l4, 1999 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 311 reduced the congestion on this route and has charge, and a computer is available onsite to made it safer fo r the growing commuter and access business websites and information online. truck trafficthat is using this road. Rural entrepreneurs and businesses face For the coming year our government has unique challenges in establishing themselves in made it a priority to secure the renewal of the today's competitive marketplace, but, by making National Infrastructure Program. Projects like information more accessible, these centres Brookside Blvd. demonstrate the achievements enhance their chances of success. that can be made with the fe deral-provincial co­ operation, but we have a long way to eliminate The agricultural industry is of great our infrastructure deficit. Along the same lines importance to the health of the rural economy. we will also continue to lobby the federal This year some farmers did experience some government on a new national highways difficulties with prices fo r grain and hogs, which program and to start supporting the development are dipping very low, but our government of Manitoba highways, which are our key continued to stand behind Manitoba's producers component in the further expansion of industry to ensure that they could weather this temporary and trade. downturn.

Our government has always recognized that In December we introduced this $25-million a strong economic future fo r this province must loan program, which is administered through the also involve rural Manitobans. My constituents Manitoba Agricultural Credit Corporation. That have seen this support in our funding to the gives farmers access to the cash that they need to Interlake Development Corporation and through prepare fo r the upcoming season. In February many programs such as the Rural Economic we joined the fe deral-provincial Agricultural Development Initiative and the Sustainable Income Disaster Assistance program with a Development Innovations Fund. commitment of $62 million in aid over the next two years fo r our hardest hit farmers. To give you just one example, this past year Despite the hardships that were faced this DGH Engineering Ltd. received a grant of year by some sectors of the agricultural industry, $40,000 through the SDIF fo r a project to test we also saw continuing diversification and the effectiveness of a hog or swine waste success in Manitoba with the nontraditional treatment currently that is used at a feeder bam crops, and, Madam Speaker, Manitoba is now in the Interlake area. This type of project was the second largest potato producer, the largest successful in Taiwan. The process has the edible bean producer in Canada. Last year saw potential to reduce odour and also lower nitrogen some 27 Manitoba farmers began to grow, were content in manure. DGH will study its the first to grow the commercial hemp in this adaptability and cost effectiveness to r use in province. Production of this versatile crop is Canada. expected to grow dramatically in the coming years and promises to be an alternative crop. So, with the rapid growth in the hog industry We are glad to see that the hemp processing in recent years, this kind of research can help us plant that will process the fibre, and also the to continue with economic development while seed, will be built in Dauphin this year, and we protecting our environment fo r future think that is great to see that, and that will help generations. many farmers to diversify.

Business entrepreneurs in rural Manitoba Madam Speaker, in order fo r me to complete received a helping hand from our government my speech prior to six o'clock, I just want to this year with the opening of several Canada­ mention that in the upcoming session our Manitoba business service centres around the government has pledged to work in co-operation province, including the Interlake area located at with all members of this House to ensure the Gimli and at Ashern. These centres provide early and smooth passage of The Electoral books, magazines, videos on business free of Divisions Amendment Act. Changes to the 312 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 14, 1999

Gimli constituency boundaries will move the part of the Gimli constituency with the passage Rural Municipality of Rockwood and the towns ofthe new boundaries. of Teulon, Stonewall, Stony Mountain, and Can I just take a moment, Madam Speaker, Balmoral from the Gimli constituency while to recognize the fo ur members who have chosen adding the rest of the R.M. of St. Andrews and to retire this year? also the R.M. of West St. Paul. Madam Speaker: Order, please. When this I would just like to express my appreciation matter is again before the House, the honourable to these communities and organizations and member fo r Gimli (Mr. Helwer) will have 11 businesses and individuals in these areas with minutes remaining. whom I have had the opportunity to work in the past nine years. I also look fo rward to fo rging The hour being 6 p.m., this House is new partnerships with the people of West St. adjourned and stands adjourned until I :30 p.m. Paul and also of St. Andrews who will become tomorrow (Thursday). LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Wednesday, April 14, 1999

CONTENTS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Maloway; Newman 269

Tabling of Reports Capital Investment Spending Evans; Gilleshammer 268 Annual Report, 1997-98, Children and Youth Secretariat; Annual Report, Farm Aid Program 1997-98, Department of Wowchuk; Enns 270 Family Services Mitchelson 261 Members' Statements

Introduction of Bills Interlake Regional Health Authority Helwer Bill 16-The Court of Queen's Bench 271 Small Claims Practices Amendment 300th Birthday of the Khalsa and Parental Responsibility Doer 271 Amendment Act 261 Grand Rapids-Fishing Industry Oral Questions Mihychuk 271

Health Care System Frontier College Doer;Stefanson 262 Hickes 272 Sale; Stefanson 263

ORDERS OF THE DAY Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Throne Speech Debat Doer; Mcintosh 264 e (Sixth Day of Debate) Mackintosh; Toews 265 Wowchuk 272 Auto TheftReduction Programs Downey 278 Mackintosh; Toews 265 Jennissen 285 266 McAlpine 294 Centra Gas Purchase Kowalski 301 Lamoureux; Newman 266 Helwer 307