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Chichester 15 March 2018 (+44)207 4041400 Casemanagers@Epiqglobal.Com London EC4A 2DY Epiq Europe Ltd Day 9 IICSA Inquiry - Chichester 15 March 2018 1 Thursday, 15 March 2018 1 Q. You are currently retired and an honorary assistant 2 (10.00 am) 2 bishop in the Diocese in Europe and in the Diocese of 3 THE CHAIR: Good morning, everyone. Good morning, 3 Chichester; is that correct? 4 Ms McNeill. 4 A. Yes. 5 MS McNEILL: Good morning, chair. Our first witness this 5 Q. I would like to begin by asking you about your working 6 morning is Nicholas Reade. 6 relationship with Bishop Wallace Benn. Bishop Wallace 7 BISHOP NICHOLAS READE (sworn) 7 has said that your role as the Archdeacon of Lewes and 8 Examination by MS MCNEILL 8 Hastings was to be his eyes and ears within the area of 9 MS McNEILL: Good morning, Bishop Nicholas. At the front of 9 Lewes, or a troubleshooter. Would you agree with that? 10 your witness bundle, behind tab A1, we have a copy of 10 A. I think that's partly the work of an archdeacon, yes. 11 your witness statement. It might help to have it in 11 The archdeacon is the eyes of the bishop. The 12 front of you. 12 archdeacon does have to do quite a bit of 13 A. Yes, thank you. 13 troubleshooting work, but, equally, the archdeacon does 14 Q. That statement was dated 22 January 2018. Can 14 work with the bishop, to help him to facilitate his 15 I confirm, before you signed this statement, did you 15 ministry. 16 read it to confirm whether it was true, to the best of 16 Q. So did you have a close working relationship with 17 your knowledge and belief? 17 Bishop Wallace? 18 A. I did. 18 A. Yes, but I think I probably have to say that legally 19 Q. And is it? 19 I was actually the diocesan bishop's archdeacon. It 20 A. It is. 20 wasn't Bishop Wallace who appointed me as archdeacon. 21 Q. Chair, the URN for that witness statement is WWS000072, 21 It was Bishop Eric Kemp, the diocesan bishop, who 22 and I ask that it be put on the website, please. 22 appointed me as archdeacon. But we had that area system 23 Bishop Nicholas, I have explained to you this 23 in the Diocese of Chichester and the normal practice was 24 morning that your witness statement will go on the 24 that, particularly for the east, the Archdeacon of Lewes 25 website in full. It contains a significant amount of 25 and Hastings would work alongside the Bishop of Lewes. Page 1 Page 3 1 detail about the operation of a diocese and the 1 Q. You are one of the few witnesses who are coming along 2 practical operation of an archdeaconry. I don't propose 2 that can help us to understand how the area scheme 3 to go through that with you in a great deal of detail 3 operated under Bishop Eric. Others have said that 4 because we have, by now, heard that evidence largely 4 Bishop Eric allowed the area bishops to largely get on 5 from other witnesses. 5 with running their parts of the diocese unfettered by 6 By way of background, is it right that you were 6 his involvement. Would you agree with that 7 ordained as a deacon in 1973 and as a priest in 1974? 7 characterisation? 8 A. Correct. 8 A. Only up to a point. Bishop Eric realised when he came 9 Q. You moved to the Diocese of Chichester in 1982, 9 to the diocese -- and, goodness me, I wasn't around when 10 subsequently becoming the Rural Dean of Eastbourne in 10 he came to the diocese, but he was looking for better 11 1988; is that right? 11 workings throughout the whole diocese in the way that it 12 A. Yes. I was Rural Dean of Dallington first. 12 could be managed in, if you like, the modern church. 13 Q. You then became the Archdeacon of Lewes and Hastings 13 This was in the early '70s. He came up with the idea of 14 in July 1997? 14 the area scheme. But even when I went on his staff in 15 A. Correct. 15 '97, he would regularly make it plain that the diocese 16 Q. With a short period beforehand as the acting archdeacon; 16 was run as a unit. Just occasionally, if suffragans or, 17 is that right? 17 dare I say it, archdeacons, started to think about doing 18 A. Yes. 18 things on their own, he would say, "Hang on", you know, 19 Q. Then you remained in the Diocese of Chichester until 19 "We are a diocese". 20 2003, when you were appointed as the Bishop of 20 So, yes, you know, I know the day-to-day running was 21 Blackburn? 21 actually in the hands of the suffragan bishops. 22 A. Correct. 22 Q. Did the suffragan bishops work collectively or did they 23 Q. Though I understand you didn't actually leave the 23 work independently of one another? I think the term 24 diocese until January 2004? 24 "silo" has been used? 25 A. Yes. 25 A. Bishop Eric used to get his suffragan bishops together Page 2 Page 4 1 (Pages 1 to 4) Epiq Europe Ltd www.epiqglobal.com 8th Floor, 165 Fleet Street (+44)207 4041400 [email protected] London EC4A 2DY Day 9 IICSA Inquiry - Chichester 15 March 2018 1 for a lengthy meeting once a month. I can always 1 the Roman Catholic Church. We knew what had happened in 2 remember that at the Board of Finance meeting he would 2 other denominations. And we knew that cases were 3 leave on the dot of 12, whether the meeting had finished 3 beginning to surface in the Church of England. There 4 or not, he would take his suffragans away for a meeting. 4 were things that were being -- there was literature that 5 Now, we had no idea what went on at that meeting unless 5 was coming out. There was what I would call a low level 6 the area bishop happened to share it with us, and 6 of early -- initial training, yes. 7 I can't think of very many occasions when Bishop Wallace 7 Q. What Mrs Hind said was that when she started in the 8 shared with me what was shared at that meeting. But 8 diocese, there was generally a level of support at the 9 I think the idea of that meeting was very definitely so 9 parish level for her role, but slightly less engagement 10 that there could be some coordination between their 10 at a senior level, to begin with, at the bishops' level. 11 work. Also, we had the monthly staff meeting, the 11 She also said that there were some individuals who were 12 bishops' staff meeting. 12 resistant to the idea of an outsider coming in and 13 Q. Which we have heard from others about? 13 essentially telling them what to do. Would you agree 14 A. You will have heard from others about that, and, 14 with that? 15 actually, I think that that showed the Diocese of 15 A. I think only in part, I have to say. I joined the 16 Chichester, the hierarchy, if you want to use the term, 16 bishops' staff at the same time as Mrs Hind was 17 in the Diocese of Chichester actually working at its 17 appointed, 1997. I can remember when this was discussed 18 best. 18 at the bishops' staff meeting. Knowing what Chichester 19 Q. You are also the only witness we have heard from so far 19 Diocese was like -- I mean, I'd been around in the 20 who was within the diocese prior to 1997, which is when 20 diocese since 1982, and I had been a boy in the 21 we know Mrs Hind became the first diocesan safeguarding 21 diocese -- I was very pleasantly surprised at a pretty 22 adviser. It was called the child protection adviser at 22 positive response to the fact that we were having 23 that time. It was also before 1997 when she introduced 23 a child protection adviser. 24 the first diocesan child protection policy. 24 You know how it is in any organisation, even in the 25 Prior to Mrs Hind's appointment and prior to the 25 corporate world: if a new person is coming into a post, Page 5 Page 7 1 introduction of the policy, how much awareness was there 1 we tend to think, "Is this really necessary?". I mean, 2 in the diocese of the concept of child protection, as it 2 "We were doing all right before". People realised we 3 was then called? 3 weren't doing all right before. They realised that 4 A. Some, I would say. The emphasis, of course, was on, in 4 there was need for change. And I certainly did not 5 those days, keeping children safe. There wasn't any 5 detect on the bishops' staff that we were uneasy about 6 emphasis, as far as I can recall, on historic cases 6 the appointment of Mrs Hind. It may well have been that 7 pre 1997. 7 a bit further down the food chain people weren't that 8 It was in 1995 that the House of Bishops requested 8 pleased about it, but certainly not -- I can say this: 9 that we should all have in the dioceses a child 9 certainly not from the bishops' staff.
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