BREAKING THE ICE: WHAT TO SAY TO YOUR CONTACTS

If you have visited the Center at all, you know we do a lot of talking about networking. Hopefully, we have convinced you how important it is. Personal contact is the single most effective way to get a . We know, however, that even though you may be convinced, you may still be uncomfortable initiating contact with people you don’t know, and sometimes even uncomfortable approaching people you do know. Keep in mind, making contacts in the legal community is accepted and expected. Even so, we’re not going to send you out there unarmed. Below, we have prepared a few scripts for you. You are not going to memorize and recite these scripts when you meet people, but they will give you some concrete ideas of how to approach people and what you should say to them. We have presented three different scenarios that tend to be common networking vehicles. However, these scripts should be a useful guide no matter where you may find yourself making a contact. Remember as you read, you never know where you might meet a valuable contact—at the gym, at a wedding, in the produce aisle—and each contact you make can put you one step closer to that dream job! And we’ll give you a real cliffhanger: you will want to read this entire article, right through to the end. We have saved what is not only the easiest approach, but the single, most effective approach, guaranteed to get a response every time, for last.

BEFORE YOU GET STARTED Some General Tips:

■ Be Prepared. Are you getting the idea that this is a common theme throughout law school? Your job search is no different. How do you prepare to make contacts?  Research. Whenever possible know as much as you can about the person you will contact, their firm or organization, and their practice before you initiate contact. By doing so you will not waste their time by asking them questions that could be answered through simple research, and you will impress them with the time and thought you have invested. You will gain more useful information from your meeting, as well as significantly increase your confidence level.  Have your “pitch” down pat. Prepare a brief introduction. It can simply be, “Hi, I’m Roger Rainmaker. I’m a student at the University of Minnesota Law School. I’m taking an law class right now, and I’m really interested in learning more about it...” Prepare just as you would for a . Be prepared to summon your strengths and overcome objections to potential weaknesses (grades, lack of experience, etc.). The Career Center can help you with these things specifically.

■ Have a specific purpose in mind. We know, we know—your purpose is to get a job, right? Ultimately, right. But when you begin to initiate contacts your purpose is going to be to get advice, information, and referrals. In fact, we strongly recommend that you do not ask your contacts for !!! Just work with us here, we know what we’re doing. The odds of your contact having a job on the day you happen to connect with them are slim to none. Even if there was a job available, your contact probably does not have the authority to give it to you. So what happens? You ask for a job, they say “no,” you both feel bad, and the door is shut. On the other hand, if you approach them for information, the door stays open. Almost no one will say, “No, I have absolutely no information.” So what good is advice, information, and referrals? In general this is how you will become a focused, directed, committed candidate—the kind people hire. All the time you are making contacts with people who may be in a position to refer you or recommend you for that dream job. The more you know about the market and where and why you will fit in, the stronger candidate you are. ‘With each contact, have a purpose such as:

1  Determining your “fit.” For example, “I’m interested in finding out what a practice with a large/small/boutique/general practice firm is like.  Selecting a practice area. “I really liked my family law class. I’m interested in learning what the practice is like.” Or “I don’t know where I want to practice. I’m just trying to find out more about this field.”  Getting advice. Maybe you know what you want to do. Ask your contacts, “What should I be taking in law school to prepare?” Or “How did you get your foot in the door?”  Honing your skills. “I want to litigate. What do you think makes a good litigator?”  Focusing your search. “I don’t know if I want to do plaintiff’s or defense work.”

There are many more possibilities, but you get the idea. We have attached a list of questions that will give you ideas to tailor to your own purposes.

■ Establish a connection with your contact. When you are researching for potential contacts, seek out people with whom you have something in common. The easiest, and most obvious is University of Minnesota alumni/ae. Look for people from your undergraduate institution who are now practicing law, people from your hometown, people whose career you want to emulate, someone who published a paper you read and found interesting, a speaker at a CLE you attended, etc. Look for people about two or three years out of law school. They will have a better sense of the market, and be most likely to be sympathetic to you. It wasn’t long ago they were in your shoes.

■ Smile, be enthusiastic, and sincere. This should go without saying but we’re saying it anyway. Be the type of person you want to be around. If your personality is naturally reserved, or if you are a little: shy, that’s okay. Be yourself. You don’t have to be “perky,” but be positive, and initiate conversations. Be interested, and interesting. Positive enthusiasm carries a great deal of weight in the legal market, and can even outweigh flaws in your application, like grades. Be a good listener. Follow up on advice and information you receive. Keep records on every contact you make. Be sincere. Your research will help you in determining those people to whom you are truly interested in talking. People generally enjoy helping people who appreciate it and follow through to get results.

■ Follow up like a pro. Thank you letters should be sent to every contact you make, whether it was a telephone conversation or a personal meeting. Again, keep in touch with your contacts. Reconnect every six to eight weeks. Keep them apprized of your progress. Let them know how you have taken their advice or referrals and the results. When you do get a job, write them another letter telling them about it, and thanking them again for their assistance. Your contacts will be valuable throughout your career, not just in helping you find a law clerk or new associate position. Stay in touch with these people throughout law school and as you begin to practice law. Remember, it’s a two way street. If you have the opportunity to help one of your contacts, take advantage of it. If you see an article you know is of interest to one of them, clip it, and send it to them. You will be surprised how you may be able to be helpful to other people even while you are still in school. But, rest assured, some day a student will call you asking for your help.

■ Maintain your professionalism-no matter what! Years of experience has shown us that students who are sincere, don’t waste people’s time, and follow up, generally find that people are more than willing to help them. Most people you contact will at the very least be friendly and eager to help to the degree they can. However, unfortunately, once in a great while we hear about a student who comes across a real stinker. If someone appears put off by your contact, or even is openly rude to you, grit your teeth, smile, thank them for their time, and move on. This is a very tight-knit legal community, with a long memory. You never know when you might meet that person again, or who

2 that person may know. If you should experience this, let us know in the Career Center. We can help you determine if you need to alter your approach to get better results.

SCRIPT #1

You are at a CLE. You don’t know one soul in the room, and therefore could not conduct any research before hand. You don’t even know that much about the CLE topic, which is The “Bermuda Triangle “: ADA, FMLA, and Workers’ Compensation Laws. You’re thinking, “What am I doing here? I can’t talk to anyone here!” Yes, you can. Turn to the person next to you, and start with the introduction you prepared.

YOU: “Hi. I’m Suzy Statute. I’m attending The University of Minnesota Law School right now, and I’m interested in practicing employment law. I think I might like plaintiff’s work, but I’m not sure. What do you do?

Not so bad, is it? There are a number of possible responses:

RESPONSE A: “That’s great! I do plaintiff’s work for a small firm...”

This person sounds enthusiastic and receptive. You want to find out all you can. Start asking questions that will get this person to talk about himself. (It won’t be hard). Refer to the attached list of questions to be prepared for situations like this, and personalize questions whenever you can. For example:

YOU: Which firm are you with? How did you choose that firm? How long have you practiced in employment law? What do you like the best about it? Are there any drawbacks? Do many of your cases go to trial? Did you ever consider defense work? Why or why not? What kind of experience should I be trying to get? What classes should I take in law school? Do you know of any other CLEs or meetings coming up I might be interested in? Do you know anyone doing defense work who might be willing to talk to me? I’d like to get another perspective. What type of cases do you handle? Do you have a lot of direct contact with your clients? Can I have a business card? (Always collect business cards). You’ve given me some things to think about. Would it be alright if I called you? I‘d be interested in learning more about your practice. If I sent you my resume, would you take a look at it and give me your feedback? Is there anyone else you know I should be talking to?

This list could go on and on. Again, refer to the attached list for ideas, but don’t stick to one rehearsed script. If the conversation takes an unexpected turn that interests you, pursue it. Always ask for business cards and referrals.

3 RESPONSE B: We aren’t looking for any clerks right now.

Aha! This is the reason you don’t go around asking people for jobs. They find it threatening, and become defensive. Reassure this person, you aren’t looking for a clerk position from him.

YOU: Sure, I understand that. Actually, I’m not actively looking yet. That’s one of the reasons I’m here. I’m trying to find out what I will eventually want to look for. What do you do?” Follow up with the same type of questions as above.

RESPONSE C: “Plaintiff’s work?! Are you nuts? Sure, if you want to spend your whole day listening to disgruntled people whine and complain—most of them don’t have a legitimate claim anyway—and even if they do, they rarely recover…!”

Wow. And you thought you had an idea of what you wanted to do. Don’t be dissuaded. You can still learn a great deal from this person.

YOU: Well, that sounds like a pretty tough way to make a living. Do you know anyone who has a successful plaintiff’s practice? I’d really like to talk to someone who’s doing it, and see if I’m cut out for it. AND/OR YOU: Let me guess. You do defense work, right? I always thought you had to go to a large firm to do defense work. Is that true? AND/OR YOU: You sound like someone who’s had some firsthand experience. Did you used to do some plaintiff’s work? What do you do now? What are the biggest differences? How did you make the change?

Even though this person sounds rather opinionated (and perhaps disgruntled himself—but don’t point that out to him), and to some may even appear abrasive, listen carefully to what he says. This person’s opinion may not be representative of other attorneys, but it will give you a place to start, and a basis for comparison. The purpose of your next contact meeting may be to find out if other attorneys have this impression of plaintiff’s work in employment matters. Each additional piece of information will get you closer to determining what you want to do and why. Through this process you will find your confidence gets stronger, too.

RESPONSE D: I don’t even work in employment law. I’m here because I need five CLE credits by next week.

Don’t walk away from this person. They make an important point. It can be tough to get those CLE credits in. There are a lot of things you can learn from practicing attorneys that they don’t teach you in law school. Find out what this person does. You may still get some valuable information.

YOU: Gee, I’ll bet that makes for a long afternoon. What do you do?

(Are you seeing a pattern here? “What do you do?” is a great, open-ended way to get people talking). Find out what type office or organization this person is with. Do they litigate? Find out what this person thinks makes a good litigator. Does this person’s firm have an employment law department? Ask for referrals. Find out about their practice area. You might discover something new you want to explore.

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SCRIPT #2

At a CLE or a bar section meeting, or anywhere there is an organized group for that matter, some people find it easier to talk to people. The focus is on the event, and you can always make small talk about the presentation. However, there are other networking vehicles that allow you to virtually hand- pick your next contact. It can be a little trickier, but we’re going to show you some painless ways to initiate contact with people you don’t know, but whom you’d like to know. With proper research you can really expand your network this way. Where do you start?

Let’s take our employment law student above. With a simple on-line search we can get a list of, for example, all the law firms in downtown St. Paul with between 10 and 25 members that have an employment law practice. From that list, we can go to LinkedIn or Martindale-Hubbell and look at the biographies of the attorneys in those firms. What do you look for?

■ What type of people does this firm tend to hire? Are they all alumni/ae of the senior partner’s law school? Is there a lot of geographic diversity? Are there a lot of University of Minnesota alums? Were the firms members all editor in chief of their law review? This type of information will tell you some of the things the firm looks for in candidates. See if you have those things or if you might have to sell yourself more if you approached them. Compare listings from last year and the year before. Is the firm growing? Is there a certain practice area where they tend to be adding attorneys? Have they moved? Have any members left? ■ What professional association memberships do the firm members maintain? Are they very involved in local bar associations, Minnesota Trial Lawyers, Minnesota Defense Lawyers, etc.? ■ Have the members of the firm published anything? If they have publications that interest you, go find them in the library and read them.

Remember, you are looking for people with whom you have something in common. When you find someone whose practice interests you who has something in common with you, find out everything you can about that person, their practice, and their firm. Check local trade publications and current news databases. When you have tapped all the research resource, available you are ready to contact that person, either by phone or mail. Yes, you are. Keep in mind, when making a contact this way, your primary goal should always be to get a personal meeting.

YOU: Hi. I’m Suzy Statute. I’m a student at the University of Minnesota Law School right now. I’m trying to learn more about the local employment law market. In researching firms I noticed that your firm has really expanded it employment law department over the past few years. When I noticed that you went to The University of Minnesota, I thought maybe you would be willing to be a resource for me. I’d be interested in hearing anything you could tell me about the opportunities in the market, and any advice you could offer.

RESPONSE A: “Sounds great! Let’s have lunch.”

We wouldn’t tease. You’d be surprised how often we hear of this response. Do we really need to tell you what to do next?

5 RESPONSE B: “I’m not sure how I can help you.”

Again, always keep your purpose in mind. This person is probably leery of being hit up for a job. Reassure that person that is not your intent by saying something like:

YOU: “I’m trying to talk to some different attorneys practicing in employment law. I’m not sure if I want to do plaintiff’s, or defense work. I thought you might be able to tell me about the plaintiff side from a smaller firm perspective. I’d be happy to bring you a Starbuck’s early one morning next week before you get into your day. I’d only take about fifteen or twenty minutes of your time.”

RESPONSE C: “I’m pretty busy right now. I’ve got a trial coming up.”

YOU: I understand. Perhaps I could call you in a few weeks. I’d be interested in hearing about the case you’re working on when you have time. OR

YOU: I understand. Is there someone else in your firm you think might be able to give me some advice?

RESPONSE D: “Okay. I have ten minutes.”

YOU: “Great!” (Ask a few of your prepared questions. Do not go longer than ten minutes). Then ask, “Do you know anyone else I should be talking to?” And, (if the last ten minutes went well and this person seems receptive), “I’d really be interested in meeting you sometime. Can I buy you a cup of coffee one morning next week “

When you ask for a personal meeting...

People most often think of, “doing lunch” first. Attorneys’ lunch hours are often spent billing hours or meeting with clients. Sometimes a better idea is to offer to meet them at their office for fifteen or twenty minutes, early in the morning or late in the afternoon as in the above examples. You get to see their office and the environment, possibly meet some of the other attorneys, and it is often more convenient for the attorney. There are only a few possible responses to this request:

RESPONSE A: “Sure!”

You know what to do here, right?

RESPONSE B: “That won’t work out for me.”

YOU: Okay. I’d really like to meet you sometime. Is there another time?

If so, follow up. If not:

YOU: I understand how busy you must be. Would it be alright if I called you again in a couple months. After I make some more progress I’d really be interested in getting your feedback again. I’ll just touch base, and you can get back to me at your convenience….”

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Most people will not say “no” to that request. If they should, however, move on. Don’t forget to always ask for a referral, though. Remember, you are trying to connect with busy people. If they don’t have time right then, or even not for a few weeks, don’t interpret that as an unwillingness to help or lack of interest. We can’t count the number of times students complain that they have tried unsuccessfully for weeks to reach someone. Nine times out of ten, they’ll report back, “Remember that attorney who never called me back? She finally called!! She felt so bad it took her so long, and she apologized profusely. We’re having lunch next week, and she was sooo nice!” Do not abuse any time they do give you. If you ask for fifteen minutes, close the meeting after fifteen minutes. If they invite you to call again, don’t be a pest. Once you establish a contact, you want to touch base every six to eight weeks. If an attorney who has been in court all day returns to the office to find several voice mail messages from you, you are a pest. But there is nothing wrong with leaving a message like, “Hi Joe. This is Suzy Statute. I’m the University of Minnesota student who talked to you a few weeks ago about your employment practice. You gave me some great ideas. I contacted your friend, Bill, as you suggested, and I’m meeting with him next week. Thanks again for your help. I’ll stay in touch.”

Some other approaches There are many ways to connect with local practitioners besides looking for alumni in particular practice areas. Consider some of the following approaches:

 “I read your article in last month’s Bench & Bar. I was really impressed with the amount of work you’ve done with ADA compliance. I’m interested in learning more about this area, and seeing if it might be an option for me...”

 “I’m selecting a topic for my long paper. I’d like to address an issue in the employment law area. What do you think needs to be written about or would be interesting to research?”

 “I’m a law student at University of Minnesota, and I’m just starting to research the local market. I noticed in my research that you’re from California. I grew up in San Francisco. I wanted to give you a call and see if you could tell me how you made that transition, and maybe give me some advice….”

 “I’m trying to learn about the small firm market here in the Twin Cities. In my research I noticed that every member of your firm came from a large firm. I thought that was interesting. I’d be interested in hearing the different perspectives you could share...”

 “I attended your CLE last month, and was very impressed. I was wondering if you would be able to direct me to some additional resources. I’m particularly interested in….”

 Try this approach on the Chair of a Bar Section Committee: “I have a strong interest in employment law. I really enjoyed the class I just completed. I was really intrigued by the issues I came across in my casebooks. Now I want to see if I would really enjoy the practice. I wonder if you would ask your section members if one of them would be willing to let me “shadow” them for a half day some time...and lunch would be on me “

 “I’m trying to learn more about employment law. I thought I would find a local practitioner to interview, and write an article for The Opinion. Your background interests me because of the work you’ve done on the Smith v. Jones case. Would you be interested in being the subject of

7 my article... ?”

IT ONLY GETS EASIER!

Some of you may be lucky enough to have a friend or family member who is practicing law, or knows an attorney. This is always the easiest place to start if you are so lucky. Even though these people may not be practicing in areas that interest you, or they may not be able to help you directly, they are a great source of referrals. Consider the following:

SCRIPT #3

We hear it all the time in our office: “My mother’s friend is a secretary for this guy who is a client of the TOP PARTNER at Huge, Huge & Large!” Great. Follow up. But here are some tips before we give you the script. While you want to tap every resource you can, you generally don’t want to be seeking out the “top,” or more correctly, senior partners. They often are not involved in hiring, and sometimes are not familiar with the market. They’re busy being senior partners. If by chance they do sit on a recruiting committee, they may be able to give you some good advice. Regardless of whether or not your contact has a finger on the pulse of the market, think about what you can learn from this person. Possibly, a great deal. Of course you research the attorney, their practice, and their firm. In a situation like this, you always want to get permission to use someone else’s name. Call your mother’s friend and ask her if you can reference her when you make the contact.

YOU: “Hi. I’m Suzy Statute, and currently a student at The University of Minnesota Law School. Your name was given to me by Millie Dinglefritz. She said her company uses your law firm. It sounds like it would be very interesting work. I was wondering if you might be able to suggest to me an attorney in your firm who would be able to tell me a little more about the type of employment matters your firm handles.”

RESPONSE A: “Millie? Millie who?”

Oops. Maybe Millie doesn’t know this person as well as she purported. Or maybe you should have taken one more step and made your first contact with Millie’s boss. But, sometimes this happens even if you do cover all the bases. If you should run into this, reestablish the connection, and then move on to the purpose of your call.

YOU: Millie Dinglefritz is a family friend of mine who works for Bill Bigshot at the ACME Lumber Company. I was talking to her about my interests in law school, which include employment law. She told me that your firm handles all the employment matters for ACME, and that maybe you would know some people who could give me some advice...”

(Remember, a firm’s clients can be influential. Those are good connections to establish).

RESPONSE B: Oh, yes, Millie… Tell you what. Give Joe Johnson in our firm a call. He’s the associate on the ACME account with me, and he does a lot of research for me. He’s up and coming in our employment area. Tell him I told you to call.”

Another common connection we hear about in our office is attorney friends of parents. Often the student may not know the attorney that well. That’s okay. These people can be great people to start with. If their practice is on point with your interests, make the contact the same way you would in any of the

8 above scripts, except state that you are so-and-so’s son or daughter, and then express your interest in their practice. Maybe their practice isn’t in line with your interests, or maybe you just don’t know. You still can contact them.

YOU: “Hi, Larry? My name is Suzy Statute, and you probably don’t remember me” but I’m Stan and Sally Statute’s daughter...”

RESPONSE A: Of course I remember you! You were in diapers, though…

YOU: Well, I’m in law school now. My parents suggested that I give you a call. I’m just in my first year, and I have no idea of what I want to do. Maybe you could tell me about your practice, and the choices you’ve made in your career. It might help to get me started...” OR

YOU: Well, I’m in law school now. My parents suggested that I give you a call. I know you do mostly corporate transactional work, and I’m really interested in employment law. But I still would be interested in picking your brain. I don’t know where to start looking. I thought you might have some advice for me...”

We will eat our hats if you don’t at least get some time on the phone with this person, and most likely a breakfast or lunch meeting. Often connections like this can lead to valuable mentoring relationships.

RESPONSE B: Gee, I don’t know anyone doing employment law.

YOU: That’s okay. I still would like to talk to you if I could. You’ve been out there practicing for 15 years. I’d be interested in finding out how you’ve seen things change. For example, we’re hearing a lot about how demanding clients can be these days. I’d like to hear what you think about that. Maybe you could even give me some advice about law school.

We also hear about situations in which people have a contact, but it is someone they have not seen for many years. Students sometimes feel sheepish about calling someone they haven’t kept in touch with, and asking for help. Our experience says, you don’t need to feel that way. For example, maybe you had another career before law school. You know that someone you went to high school with is practicing law now, but you haven’t talked to that person in 15 years. Our advice? Research them and call them.

YOU: “Hi, Trudy? This is a blast from your past. This is Suzy Statute, and I used to sit behind you in Mr. Pollywog’s Biology class. I’m a student at The University of Minnesota Law School now. I was doing some research and saw your name. I was wondering if you’d be interested in getting together sometime. I was hoping you might be able to give me some advice, and maybe show me some of the ropes about this legal market . I’m not sure what I’m doing, yet. It would be fun to catch up too.

Unless Trudy was scarred for life because you teased her relentlessly about her buck teeth all through high school, you are likely to get a positive response from a call like this. Think of the situation in reverse. If a high school classmate you haven’t heard from in many years called you out of the blue, and said, “Hey, I heard you’re in law school now. I’m thinking of going to law school, and thought you might have some advice for me.” You would probably be a little flattered, and be happy to talk to that person.

9 SCRIPT #4

We promised you that the last script was going to be not only the easiest, but the most effective, guaranteed to get results, every time. Here it is:

YOU: Hello, Mr. Bigshot? Mr. Moneybags recommended that I call you. I’m Suzy Statute….

That’s it. If you make just one contact using any of the methods suggested above, and you ask for referrals, you will be in a position to say this. A recommendation from another friend or colleague in the legal community is guaranteed to get some kind of results, if only out of professional courtesy. From here it snowballs. It is a Career Center scientific fact that the average person’s next job is six people away. If your leads dry up, make a new contact. It you need ideas, come in and talk to us, and we’ll find a new resource for you. If you think you’ve hit a dead end, count your contacts. Don’t stop at three or four. If you can count up to six good contacts, and you are still unemployed, come in and talk to us in the Career Center. We are willing to bet, however, that if you have six contacts and you are still unemployed, your next job is right around the corner

10 QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT WANT TO ASK PEOPLE YOU CONTACT

Personalize your questions.  You seem to like your job. How did you choose it?  What kind of cases are you working on?  What’s a typical day like for you? (Remember, most initial interviews will be wit newer associates, so what they do is probably what you’d get to do if you worked there)  Did you clerk for the firm you are with now?  How is your job different than you expected it to be?  What do you wish you’d asked when you were interviewing for jobs?  What do you know now that you wish you knew in law school?  What do you like the most about your job?  What’s the best thing that’s happened to you working here?  If you were to stay here 20 years, why would you stay?  If you could change anything about your job, would you? If so what would it (Be careful not to have a “negative” tone).  What’s the most interesting case you’ve worked on?  What have you learned as a result of working here?  How long were you at the firm before you had significant client contact?  Did you start off in your current practice area? If not, why did you switch?  What do you find most challenging about being a lawyer?

Show of your research.  What were the biggest issues you had to deal with in the Smith v. Jones case?  I read you represented so-and-so. Do you do a lot of that kind of work?  I see you’ve done a lot of mergers and acquisitions work. Do you expect that to continue?

Tailor your questions according to the firm size and experience level of your contact.  How quickly should I expect to take part in client development in a small firm/large firm?  How is a new associate trained? (Large firm)  What do you do if something comes across your desk that you’ve never handled before? (Small firm)  How has your practice changed over the years? (Senior attorney)  How have client’s needs changed over the years? (Senior attorney)  Where do you see partnership heading in the next five years (Senior attorney/large firm)

Tie your questions to current events. If the firm has been in the media, ask about it (even if the news is bad or scandalous).  How are you prepping clients for the new XYZ legislation?  I read that a large group of attorneys recently left the firm. How is that affecting clients? (If the news is negative, don’t avoid it, but keep your questions in a professional context).  How has morale been affected by the split?

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