Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 25 AUGUST 1964

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

56 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

(3) "Ss. 6d. per barrel." ( 4) "Up until now royalty was at the rate of 6d. per ton whether it was exported overseas or sold in Australia. When the Agreement varying the original Agreement is signed, royalty will be 1s. per ton on bauxite shipped from the State except to Bell Bay and exports already approved by the Governor in Council, and 6d. per ton on all other bauxite. I would refer the Honourable Member to the Order in Council tabled by me on the 20th instant."

MINISTERIAL OVERSEAS TOURS.-Mr. Houston for Mr. Lloyd, pursuant to notice, asked The Premier,- What are the details of each Ministerial overseas tour since August, 1957, showing (a) the date of departure and the length of the tour, (b) the purpose of the tour and (c) the cost of the tour? Answer:- "The information requested by the Honourable Member in parts (a) and (b) of his Question is contained in this statement, a copy of which I now lay upon the Table of the House. In regard to part (c) of the Question, details of all Ministerial expenses covering the years since 1957-1958 have already been tabled in the House each year following on Orders of the House. In regard to 1963-1964, a similar Order has been made and the necessary information is being collated TUESDAY, 25 AUGUST, 1964 and will be tabled as soon as possible." Paper.-Whereupon, Mr. Nicklin laid upon the Table of the House the state­ Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, ment referred to. Murrumba) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m. PARKING RESTRICTIONS, CORONATION QUESTIONS DRIVE.-Mr. Houston for Mr. Lloyd, pur­ suant to notice, asked The Minister for RoYALTIES ON OIL, BAUXITE AND COAL.­ Mines,- Mr. Houston for Mr. Lloyd, pursuant to ( 1) As the parking restrictions along notice, asked The Minister for Mines,- Coronation Drive imposed by the Traffic ( 1) What amounts of royalty have been Commission have created (a) loss of received up to July 31, 1964, on, and what revenue and consequent goodwill to a were the quantities involved, of (a) number of business people and (b) an Moonie oil, (b) Weipa bauxite and (c) obvious breach of one of the accepted Moura-Kianga coal? democratic freedoms of an uninterrupted (2) In fixing the royalty payable on enjoyment of a private home, will he Moonie oil, what was the basis upon which instruct the Commission to have a further the price was assessed at the bore head? review of the restrictions applied in the ( 3) What was the charge involved in area concerned? the price assessed on Moonie oil, by way (2) Does the Traffic Commission intend of pipe line transportation per barrel? to extend these restrictions to other areas ( 4) What is the royalty payable on of Brisbane? If so, which are the areas Weipa bauxite for (a) export and (b) concerned? Australian manufacturing? Answers:- Answers:- ( 1) "The Honourable Member paints (!) "(a) £9,337, 148,537 barrels; (b) only one side of the picture and the £3,802 19s., 152,116 tons; (c) correctness of his premises is not £35,602 Os. 2d., 1,424,079 tons." acknowledged. He appears unconcerned ( 2) "The selling price less the cost of with the safety and convenience of transport of the oil to Sydney, harbour motorists or the overall community dues, pipeline tariff and gathering costs." benefit. Every effort has been made to Questions [25 AUGUST] Questions 57

meet the requests of the few businesses HOUSING COMMISSION RENTAL ACCOM­ concerned. The Brisbane City Council MODATION.-Mr. Hanlon, pursuant to notice, has agreed to provide some work at the asked The Minister for Works,- western end to allow some parking. ( 1) How many applicants for rental Arrangements for installation of traffic accommodation are now registered with lights are being pushed ahead. Democratic the Queensland Housing Commission (a) freedoms such as this must be restricted in the metropolitan area and (b) outside when they exercise an adverse effect on the metropolitan area? the overall community good. In any case unrestricted traffic or a return to the former (2) How many applications in all restrictions would probably be of no benefit categories for rental accommodation were to residents and of detriment to over lodged with the Housing Commission 20,000 people who use the road daily." during the financial year ended June 30, 1964, and of these how many have been (2) "Some restrictions are being inves­ allotted rental accommodation in (a) tigated in other areas at present to see if houses and (b) flats? they are justified. They are parking restrictions in (i) Breakfast Creek Road (3) (a) How many houses were built between the intersection of Ann and Wick­ for rental in the Brisbane metropolitan area ham Streets and the Breakfast Creek from July 1, 1963, to June 30, 1964, and Bridge, and (ii) The Albion shopping (b) in which suburbs were they built and centre." in what numbers in the respective suburbs? ( 4) How many rental homes became available for re-letting in the Brisbane NUMBER OF POLICE PERSONNEL.-Mr. metropolitan area during the year ended Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The June 30, 1964, and in what numbers in the Minister for Labour and Industry,- respective suburbs? (1) What was the total number of policemen budgeted for in the 1963-1964 (5) Were all re-let vacancies re-let? budget? Answers:- (2) What is the present number of policemen in the Police Force and what (1) "(a) At July 31, 1964, 1,422 which was the number at June 30, 1964? had points priorities and 1,838 of nil priority. (b) At June 30, 1964, 582 which (3 ) How many policemen (a) retired, had points priorities and 1,053 of nil (b) resigned and (c) were dismissed during priority." the financial year 1963-1964? (2) "Applications for State rental houses ( 4) How many policemen entered the received during period July 1, 1963, to Police Force during the same financial year? June 30, 1964. Answers:- Metro- Country (1) "2,701." Points Priority politan Total Area Centres (2) "(a) 2,688, (b) 2,670." 100 Families facing eject- (3) "(a) 35, (b) 57, (c) 5." ment, living in tents, huts, or similar un ... (4) "95. However, 29 personnel were suitable premises .. 163 288 451 sworn in on August 5, 1964. I would 80 Families living in also draw the attention of the Honourable premises con- demned, by Local Member to the number of police personnel or State Authorities 6 40 46 employed in the various States in relation to the population. New South Wales, 1 60 Families separated owing to lack of police officer to 7 66 persons; Victoria 1 accommodation .. 150 152 302 police officer to 724 persons; South Aus­ 40 Families living under tralia, 1 police officer to 700 persons; overcrowded con.. Western Australia, 1 police officer to 652 ditions and Families sharing homes with persons; Queensland, 1 police officer to 905 583 persons; Tasmania, 1 police officer other people 598 307 to 576 persons. On an area basis, the 917 787 1,704 position is:-Victoria, 1 police officer to 21 square miles; Tasmania, 1 police officer to In addition during 1963-1964, 2,102 appli­ 42 square miles; New South Wales, 1 police cations of nil priority-1,315 metropolitan offi~er to 59 square miles; Queensland, 1 and 787 country centres--were received. pohce officer to 248 square miles; South In respect of the metropolitan applications A~1stralia, 1 police officer to 264 square lodged during 1963-1964 offers of 769 miles; Western Australia, 1 police officer to 824 square miles. I would also point out houses and 107 flats were made during to the Honourable Member that as com­ the year of which offers 538 houses and pared with 384 police motor vehi~les, as at 62 fiats were accepted and 276 houses June 30, 1957, there are now 542 vehicles and/ or fiats declined. During that year which enables the police to have greate; a further 827 houses and fiats were mobility in carrying out police duties." occupied." 58 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

(3) "(a) 313 ~ouses and 21 fiats, (b) (5) What is the number of projects Inala, 178; Acacia Ridge, 26; Stafford, being carried out by day-labour in the same 108; Manly, 1; Red Hill fiats, 2L" area and where are these projects situated? ( 4) "692 houses and 41 fiats situated Answers:- a!-Acacia Ridge, 43; Carina, 30; Cherm­ ( I) "16." side, 23; Camp Hill, 4; Cannon Hili I· Coopers Plains, 29; Enoggera, 5; Ekibin: (2 and 3) "Associated Enterprises Pty. 2; Gravely, 12; Holland Park, 29· Inala Ltd., groups of 50, 15 and 30 houses; 396; Indooroopiliy, 1; Kedron, 1; 'Manly' C. W. Boss Enterprises Pty. Ltd., groups 2; Murarrie, 5; Morningside, 1; Mount of 13 and 7 houses; Inala Industries Pty. Gravatt, 29; Nundah, 1; Salisbury, 3; Ltd., groups of 30 and 75 houses; Pradella Stafford, 22; Seven Hilis, 2; Wellers Hili, Housing Pty. Ltd., groups of 15 and 30 2; Wynnum, 1; Zillmere, 48; Holland Park houses; Continental Homes Pty. Ltd., flats, 40; Red Hill, fiat, 1." ' group of 50 houses; National Homes Pty. Ltd., groups of 6, 7, 6 and 12 houses; (5) "Yes." Iezzi Homes Pty. Ltd., group of 5 houses; H. M. Lee, group of 12 houses." EXTENSION OF LEGAL Am.-Mr. Hanlon, ( 4) "Ten including one on leave and pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for four who also attend to single house Justice,- contracts." ( 1) Is he aware that the New South (5) "Five projects situated at Acacia y.'a!es G_overnment has recently declared Ridge, Coopers Plains, Holland Park, Its mtentiOn to amend the Legal Assistance Act to extend the aid already provided in Manly and Stafford." th~t ~tate to perso~s co~sidered justifiably bnngmg or defendmg civil actions to an MARKING MACHINES FOR RoAD TRAFFIC income limit of up to £1,500 in the case of LINES.-Mr. Newton, pursuant to notice, a man with a wife and three children? asked The Minister for Mines,- ( 1) What is the number of road white­ (2) As legal aid in civil matters in this line marking machines attached to the State is confined to tendering of advice Traffic Engineer's Department? only, can he indicate whether any progress has yet been made for the extension of (2) In what parts of the State are these legal aid in Queensland? machines stationed? ( 3 ) What is the number of personnel Answers:- employed by the Department on this work? ( 1) "I have read in the Brisbane Press that the New South Wales Government Answers:- has decided to liberalise the means test ( 1) "Six. Two are self-propelled requirements for legal aid in that State." machines, each of 5-?allons capacity. Four (2) "Certain progress has been made are hand-propelled gravity fed machines, towards planning a scheme of legal each of half-gallon capacity." assistance (embracing both legal aid and (2) "Brisbane." lega! advice) in this State. Following the (3) "Fifteen." receipt of a report submitted by a Depart­ mental Committee, a conference was held OVERHEAD BRIDGE, HANDFORD AND between representatives of the Bar Associa­ MuRPHY ROADS, ZILLMERE.-Mr. Mel!oy, tio~ of Queensland, the Queensland Law pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Society Incorporated, and representatives Transport,- of the Department of Justice. Advice Have plans for the construction of the from the Bar Association of Queensland overhead bridge connecting Handford and and the Queensland Law Society Incor­ Murphy Roads, Zillmere, been abandoned? porated upon certain aspects of such a If not, when is it anticipated that the work scheme is now awaited." will be proceeded with? Answer:- HOUSING COMMISSION GROUP CONTRACTS, BRISBANE.-Mr. Newton, pursuant to notice "I suggest that the Honourable Member asked The Minister for Works,- ' address his Question to the appropriate Minister." . ( 1) Wh~t !s the number of group Hous­ Ing CommissiOn contracts at present let in ABORIGINAL MISSION, WEIPA.-Mr. Mel!oy, the metropolitan area by the Queensland pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Housing Commission to private contractors or companies? Education,- ( 1) What stage has been reached in the ( 2) What are the names of the contrac­ negotiations between Comalco and the tors and companies? church authorities and/ or the Government ( 3) What is the number of houses let on the construction of a new aboriginal in each group? mission village at Weipa? ( 4) What is the number of inspectors (2) What has been the reason for the allocated to the metropolitan area to unreasonable delay in bringing this project inspect such groups in progress? to completion? Questions [25 AUGUST] Questions 59

Answers:- £11,067; (c) Traffic signals, £3,500; Total, ( 1) "The Commonwealth Aluminium £26,567. Estimates of costs (a) and (b) Corporation will make a cash grant of were compiled by Brisbane City Council." £150,000 in three annual payments of (2) "(a) There are no Main Roads £50,000. The Presbyterian Mission Church Department funds being expended on this Authorities have invited tenders for the project, which is not on a declared road. supply of suitable buildings for a new (b) Brisbane City Council is meeting cost Mission township at Weipa. These tenders of road works (£12,000) and the Traffic have closed and are under consideration." Engineer's Office is meeting cost of altera­ (2) "Any apparent delay, which to the tion to services, traffic islands and traffic Honourable Member might appear unrea­ signals, estimated at £14,567." sonable, has been occasioned solely by the ( 3) "The works were put in hand by determination of the Government and the Brisbane City Council on December 6, Mission Authorities to ensure the best pos­ 1963, following receipt from the Traffic sible arrangements are made which will Engineer of an order dated August 19, provide opportunities for the aboriginal 1963, for the construction of the traffic inmates to participate to the fullest extent islands and alteration to services. In June, in developments in the area. Finalisation 1964, the Traffic Engineer advised me that of plans at an earlier date was not possible the Council expected the road works would on account of the fluid state of the Com­ be completed by the end of that month. pany's plans for the development of the The Council has now advised the Traffic bauxite deposits. The Presbyterian Board Engineer it expects the works to be com­ of Missions has advised the Government pleted at the end of next week." that it regards this contribution by the Company as a full discharge of the Com­ ( 4) "The traffic lights can be put into pany's obligation to the Weipa people." commission soon after the Council has completed the road works. Barring unfore­ seen circumstances, this should be one or CRIBB IsLAND DENTAL CLINIC.-Mr. two days following completion of such Melloy, pursuant to notice, asked The works." Minister for Health,- Will he give consideration to increasing ERECTION OF HoUSING COMMISSION the hours and days of attendance of dentists HOUSES AT REDBANK.-Mr. Donald, pursuant at the Cribb Island dental clinic in order to notice, asked The Minister for Works,- to reduce the waiting time for treatment ( 1) Have any negotiations taken place and to enable preliminary examinations for between the State Government and the dental caries to be carried out at this Commonwealth Government in connection clinic? with the land between the by-pass road Answer:- and the old Ipswich-Brisbane road at "The Hospital Board has already decided Redbank? If so, is it the intention of the to increase the service at the Cribb Island Government to erect Housing Commission Dental Clinic when the new hospital at homes on this property? Redcliffe is opened, enabling the closure (2) If no negotiations have been made, of the existing part-time dental clinic at will he approach the Commonwealth Redcliffe and the release of its dentist for Government on the matter? other dental services." ( 3) Does the Housing Commission pro­ pose to erect Commission homes in Redbank and, if so, when? TRAFFIC CONTROL, STAFFORD ROAD AND WEBSTER RoAD INTERSECTION. - Mr. Answers:- Campbell, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Mines,- (! and 2) "Negotiations took place between the Housing Commission and the ( 1) What is the estimated cost of works Commonwealth Department of Interior. to improve traffic flow in course of com­ However, the Main Roads Department pletion at the corner of Stafford Road and required a portion of the land for future Webster Road, Stafford? roadworks and it was arranged that the (2) What amount is being provided by Department would acquire all the Com­ (a) the Main Roads Department and (b) monwealth land between the by-pass and Brisbane City Council? the old road and would transfer to the Commission the area not required for road (3) When will the roadworks be com­ purposes. On July 23, 1964_, the Executive pleted? Council authorised the Commission to pur­ ( 4) When will the traffic lights be chase from the Main Roads Department 9 operating? acres 34 · 6 perches. of this land." ( 3) "The Commission proposes to have Answers:- homes erected in this area after the estate ( 1) "£26,567 made up as follows:­ has been developed in accordance with (a) Road works, £12,000; (b) Alterations the normal requirements of the Ipswich to services and provision of traffic islands, City Council." 60 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

RAILWAY AUTOMATIC SIGNALLING EQUIP­ (2) For the last twelve months for MENT AT STUART, ToWNSVILLE.-Mr. Tucker, which figures are readily available how pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for much coal was used in the furnaces of Transport,- this power station? ( 1) Have the subterranean cables serv­ (3) Has any attempt been made to ing the automatic signalling equipment of determine how much of this coal was the Railway Department at Stuart, Towns­ emitted from the chimneys in soot and ville, been irreparably damaged and what grit and, if so, what was the result? caused such damage? Answers:- (2) When were these cables laid, who (1) "I have to inform the Honourable was the contractor and what tests and Member that the control of the power enqumes were made to ascertain the suit­ station referred to by him has since July 1, ability of this type of cable in that par­ 1964, been vested in the Northern Electric ticular area? Authority of Queensland. The grit arrest­ ing equipment previously installed on one ( 3) What is the estimated cost of restor­ of the larger boilers in this power station, ing the equipment to safe working condi­ referred to in my reply to the Honourable tion and who will bear such cost? Member on March 20, 1964, has continued Answers:- to function satisfactorily and in fact has further reduced the emission of grits to a (1) "Damage attributed to a species of level lower than that experienced in termite has. been caused to underground March, 1964. The second of the larger cables installed in the Stuart area." boilers is to be equipped with similar grit (2) "The cables were laid during the arresting equipment now on order. Regard­ months of December, 1963, January and ing the reduction of the nuisance resulting February, 1964, by the contractor, Messrs. from the unloading of coal at the power station, a contract for the necessary equip­ McKenzie and Holland (Aust.) Pty. Ltd., ment to reduce the nuisance has been let and complied with the Standards Associa­ and installation is scheduled for August 31, tion of Australia Code for direct burial 1964." underground." (2) "25,000 tons of coal has been used (3) "The equipment is in safe working at the power station for the year ending condition. To ensure its continued safe June 30, 1964." working the maximum length of cable pos­ sible is being removed from the ground, (3) "No such attempt has been under­ and to obviate termite attack a special cable taken as, due to the reduced power output from this power station into the northern having a copper sheath will be used where inter-connected system during the past year that part of the cable must remain buried. and the favourable results achieved from The cost of carrying out this work has the equipment referred to in my answer to not yet been advised by the Project (a), the emission of grits from this power Engineer, which Project will bear the cost." station, has fallen to a very low level and such investigations would not serve any ToWNSVILLE HIGH ScHOOL.-Mr. Tucker, useful purpose." pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Education,- FINANCIAL AID TO LOCAL AUTHORITIES Is he in a p<>sition to indicate when all FOR ROAD WoRKS.-Mr. Aikens, pursuant to students of the Townsville High School notice, asked The Minister for Mines,- will be accommodated at the new site and In view of the generous treatment under one principal? afforded by the State Government to the Brisbane City Council in the matter of Answer:- road construction and maintenance, as " It is tentatively planned to transfer disclosed in his reply to the Member for students from the Townsville High School Nundah on Thursday, August 20, will he to the new site next year, but this is inform the House when similar generous dependent on the availability of accom­ treatment is to be afforded to provincial modation at the new school." city councils and country shire councils wherein the bulk of the State's wealth is SOOT NUISANCE, POWER STATION ON produced? MURDER IsLAND, TOWNSVILLE.-Mr. Aikens, Answer:- pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Industrial Development,- "The treatment afforded to provincial dty councils and country shire councils is (!) Have any further steps been taken as generous as the funds available will to minimise the emission of soot and grit allow. The whole of the funds available from the Townsville Regional Electricity are spent in Local Authority areas and Board's power station on Murder Island, ~very effort is made to spend funds to the Townsville, and, if so, what are they? greatest advantage of all concerned." Questions [25 AUGUST] Questions 61

ToLGA SCRUB ROAD, ATHERTON.-Mr. ( 4 and 5) "These houses are being con­ Davies for Mr. Wallis-Smith, pursuant to structed to meet arrangements with Queens­ notice, asked The Minister for Mines,- land Alumina Pty. Ltd. in relation to the In view of the fact that four months establishment of the aluminium refinery. have elapsed since the start of work on The Honourable Member appreciates the the half mile section of road through the great importance of this project to Queens­ Tolga scrub between Atherton and Tolga land and to Gladstone in particular, and and the inconvenience to motorists in will, I am sure, agree that it would have negotiating the long detour, which has two been most unrealistic for the Government dangerous rail crossings, will he take early not to assist with housing. The Company action to have the work completed? accepts responsibilities to the Commission in regard to payment of rent by its Answer:- nominees for these houses, and it is antici­ pated that in many cases the houses will " Arrangements have already been made be purchased by the nominees. The Com­ for the work to be completed as soon as mission's home ownership schemes are possible. If arrangements go as planned available to existing residents of Gladstone the new road should be gravelled and who may apply under the Workers available to traffic in three weeks." Dwelling scheme for loans for the erection of houses on the applicant's land while JAPANESE WOOD SCREWS, IPSWICH RAIL­ Commission land is also available for WAY WORKSHOPS.-Mr. Sherrington, pursuant selection by home ownership applicants. to notice, asked The Minister for Transport,- However, the Commission does not have one current application under the Workers Are wood screws, manufactured in Dwelling scheme and only two applications Japan, being used in the Ipswich Railway for houses on Commission land, tenders Workshops? If so, what other imported having been accepted in both cases." materials are also being used? Answer:- PREVENTION OF ROAD ACCIDENTS.-Mr. " A proportion of the wood screws used Murray, pursuant to notice, asked The in the Ipswich Workshops are of Japanese Minister for Transport,- manufacture. There are many lines of What positive action will be taken to imported materials from many countries arrest and reduce the increasing rate of which are being used in the Railway death and injury in Queensland due to Department's Workshops, and this has road accidents? always been so." Answer:- "Three vital elements are recognised by HOUSING COMMISSION HOUSES, GLAD­ traffic experts-namely, education, engin­ STONE.-Mr. Hanson, pursuant to notice, eering and enforcement. Engineering and asked The Minister for Works,- enforcement are under the jurisdiction of ( 1) How many applications are held at Ministers of the Crown other than myself. the present time by the C.P.S. Gladstone So far as education is concerned, I shall, for the Housing Commission from people as Chairman of the Queensland Road requiring homes in Gladstone either on a Safety Council, continue to foster earnest rental or ownership basis? efforts by that body and its country (2) What was the tender price for branches, to persuade the public of homes presently being erected for the Queensland to improve their road conduct Housing Commission at Barney Point, and so endeavour to decrease the present Gladstone? road toll. Might I add that, up to the present, the use of seat belts at all times (3) Could he give any indication of the is considered to be the greatest single anticipated weekly rental that will be factor towards a reduction in the number sought for such homes? of fatalities and injuries to car drivers and ( 4) Are any of the homes being erected passengers." to be made available for outright purchase, and, if so, at what price? ROYALTY FROM WEIPA BAUXITE.-Mr. (5) Will he ensure that a percentage of Davies for Mr. Graham, pursuant to notice, the aforementioned homes are made avail­ asked The Minister for Mines,- able to existing residents of the town of What amount of royalty has been Gladstone? received by the Government with regard to bauxite from Weipa (a) exported to Answers:- Japan and other overseas countries and (1) "Twenty-five priority rental applica­ (b) used within Australia, during the past tions and 27 of nil priority. No home financial year? ownership applications." Answer:- (2) "£266,076 5s." "None. The Company has until Sep­ (3) "Approximately £5 10s. 6d. to £5 tember 30, 1964, to lodge its royalty return 16s." for the financial year 1963-1964." 62 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

MANUAL TRAINING TEACHERS IN HIGH "From the Trust and Special Funds the ScHooLs.-Mr. Dean, pursuant to notice, sum of £28,000,000; and asked The Minister for Education,- "From the moneys standing to the credit ( 1) Is it a fact that manual training of the Loan Fund Account the sum of teachers are the only teachers in high £12,000,000." schools not receiving the high school allowance? If so, is this because manual COMMITTEE training teachers are not formally trained (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, teachers? Greenslopes, in the chair.) (2) If this is the case has he given any consideration to formally training these Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth­ men or does he consider that boys in a Treasurer) (11.3 9 a.m.) : I move- high school doing an Industrial Junior do "That there be granted to Her Majesty, not require formally trained teachers in on account, for the service of the year technical subjects, whereas girls doing a 1964-65, a further sum not exceeding Home Science Course require two-years £68,000,000 towards defraying the formally trained teachers? expenses of the various departments and Answer:- services of the State." (1 and 2) "Yes. The minimum require­ As hon. members know, the final ments for teachers receiving the high school Appropriation Act for 1963-64 also included allowance are a pass in the Senior Public a Vote on Account for 1964-65. That Vote Examination and two years' professional on Account enables the Government to training at the Teachers' College or its carry on from 1 July this year until about equivalent. In addition, teachers of home the end of this month, pending the meeting science and commercial subjects, if of Parliament and the granting of further required, must undertake teaching in gen­ Supply. The Supply granted on that occasion eral subjects. The requirements for was- recruitment, training and class teaching of £ manual training teachers are determined on Consolidated Revenue Fund 21,000,000 an entirely different basis." Trust and Special Funds .. 25,000,000 Loan Fund Account 5,000,000 PAPERS It is now necessary to appropriate further The following papers were laid on the moneys to cover expenditure on govern­ table:- mental services until the passing of the Proclamations under- Estimates and the final Appropriation Bill The Companies Act Amendment Act of for 1964-65. Approval is accordingly sought 1964. in this Bill for a further £68,000,000, made up as follows:- The Industrial Development Act Amend­ £ ment Act of 1964. Consolidated Revenue Fund 28,000,000 Orders in Council under- Trust and Special Funds . . 28,000,000 The Co-operative Societies Acts, 1946 Loan Fund Account 12,000,000 to 1962. Thus the total amount that will be made The Harbours Acts, 1955 to 1964. available in respect of 1964-65 to enable the The Brisbane City Council Business and Government to carry on pending the passing Procedure Act of 1939. of the Final Appropriation Bill, probably in The Forestry Acts, 1959 to 1964. late November, will be £119,000,000, made Regulations unde-r- up as follows:- £ The Local Government Acts, 1936 to 1963. Consolidated Revenue Fund 49,000,000 Trust and Special Funds . . 53,000,000 The Labour and Industry Acts, 1946 to Loan Fund Account 17,000,000 1963. This aggregate of £119,000,000 compares with Ordinance under The City of Brisbane a total of £109,000,000 granted for the corre­ Acts, 1924 to 1960. sponding period in 1963-64. SUPPLY The respective increases are- £ VoTE oF CREDIT-£68,000,000 Consolidated Revenue Fund 3,000,000 MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR Trust and Special Funds . . 5,000,000 Mr. SPEAKER read a message from His Loan Fund 2,000,000 Excellency the Governor recommending that The significant increase in the Supply the following provision be made on account requirement for the first five months of the of the services for the year ending 30th June, financial year is caused, firstly, by the ever­ 1965- increasing quantum of works and services "From the Consolidated Revenue Fund carried out through the three funds. Then, of Queensland (exclusive of the moneys secondly, this year we are faced with standing to the credit of the Loan Fund increased salary and wage costs occasioned Account) the sum of £28,000,000; by the recent basic wage increase and Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 63

teachers, police and other award variations. Treasury loans were on a higher level up The award variations have their greatest to 1955-56 than since that date, but the impact on Consolidated Revenue Fund, amounts are comparatively small and do not where staff is concentrated and the effects alter the trend I have shown. The shrinking are immediate. trend which existed in the last three years For the Trust and Special Funds, the of Labour in office has been replaced by a effects of the award variations are not yet rising scale at a much higher level. so evident. However, in these funds we have But the real improvement lies far deeper to meet substantially heavier calls for the than that. Back in 1954 to 1957 the City financing of increased activity in the various Council was unable to raise its full pro­ construction funds, such as the beef-cattle gramme in any single year. In 1954-5? it roads, brigalow-lands development and main failed to raise £2,020,000 and that precwus roads funds, in the Agricultural Bank, State allocation was lost not only to Brisbane but Government Insurance Office, and hospital also to Queensland. In 1955-56 a further administration trust funds, and for the £1,460,300 was lost and in 1956-57 a still finalisation of contracts for the Mount Isa further sum of £720,090 was lost. railway line project. Faced with that situation, what did the With regard to the Loan Fund, hon. then Government do to help the city of members are advised that the Australian Brisbane? Its support from its controlled Loan Council authorised an addition sources was trifling. In Labour's last three of £2,276,000-from £34,400,000 to years, the total support to the Brisbane City £36,676,000~in Queensland's loan raising Council from Government sources totalled for the year 1964-65. This higher level of £372,440, an average of less than £125,000 raisings permits correspondingly greater per annum. In our last three years, the capital expenditures, and the £2,000,000 support totalled £2,490,640, an average of increase in the Loan Fund requirement is over £830,000 per annum-between six and a direct result of this. seven times as much as was provided by our It has been my habit on these occasions predecessors. For seven successive years we to make some observations on various prob­ have seen to it that not one penny of lems of current interest, and I intend to precious loan allocations was lost either by repeat that practice today. For some time the Brisbane City Council or by any other public attention has been drawn to the local authority anywhere in the State. That financial need of the city of Brisbane, and has not been mere lip service; we have backed not uncommonly the Government has been it from our resources. And I can tell hon. taken to task for an alleged lack of members now, with only seven weeks of the sympathy. If that were true, at least the financial year gone, that the full loan alloca­ criticism would be fair. But I propose to tion for this year will be raised, making a portray the whole record-one which shows straight eight in a row. that, far from being unsympathetic, this Government has extended help in vaster Had the Government been content with degree, and in far more varied manner, larger loan raising support its performance than any of its predecessors. would have been a vast improvement on the record of our predecessors. But it was not We took office as a Government in August so content. I propose to show direction 1957, and the first Budget that I brought after direction in which extra funds were down was that of 1957-58. Consequently, made available for additional help to the I treat up to the end of June 1957 as the end Brisbane City Council for varying special of the Labour period and from then on as purposes. the period of this Government. Mr. Mann: You will agree that there is For the last three years of Labour in some obligation on the Government to do office there was a steady decline in debenture that? loan allocations to the Brisbane City Council. The figures were- Mr. HILEY: I agree, and we recognise it. £ Our predecessors, however, did not. That 1954-55 5,700,000 is the point I wanted to make. I am glad 1955-56 4,750,000 the hon. member gathered it. 1956-57 3,635,000 The first major group referred to the needs I ask the Committee to contrast not only of Housing Commission estates, several of the amounts but also the trend over recent which had been built on clay ridges with no years- provision for sewerage or drainage. We made £ a five-year deal with the City Council in 1961-62 terms of which we not only allotted special 5,788,000 borrowing authority but also undertook to 1962-63 (the first year help find the loan money. Already the relieved of electricity generation) Housing Commission's estates at Rocklea and 5,210,990 Trout's Road, Stafford, and all but the 1963-64 6,014,400 1964-65 recently acquired areas of Acacia Ridge, 7,000,000 together with a large portion of Zillmere and These amounts refer only to debenture approximately half of Inala, are reticulated, allocations. and the drainage problems have been solved. 64 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Since then, other special claims have been But it was left to 1964-65 to break all pre­ recognised. The list is most impressive. I vious records, with specials totalling will take the last three years. In the year £2,010,691. These were made up of £295,000 1961-62 special assistance totalled £858,000. as a special loan allocation by the Loan We made an allocation of £200,000 for the Council for Wynnum-Manly sewerage, and establishment of a revolving fund for sewer­ £150,000 as a further instalment on the five­ age development. Although this was of no year programme of £1,500,000 for sewering particular credit to this Government because Housing Commission estates. Then came a money became available as a special alloca­ special contribution, made at the Council's tion from the Loan Council, we allotted request because of pressure of demand by £400,000 to the Brisbane City Council new industries that were coming into the towards unemployment relief. We allotted Brisbane area. For services to the oil £8,000 to the Council for road construction refineries-water and road access-there was in Queensland Housing Commission estates a contribution of £646,566, and, for similar at Acacia Ridge. We gave further assistance services for Imperial Chemical Industries and to the Council for roadworks, etc., in the A.C.F. and Shirleys Fertilisers development, Queensland Housing Commission estate at £47,000; for similar service to General Acacia Ridge in the allocation of £100,000, Motors-Holden's at Archerfield, £75,350; for and our contribution for the five-year sewer­ electricity to Housing Commission estates, a age plan was £150,000, making a total for special allocation of £100,000; for roads to that year of £858,000. Housing Commission estates, a special allo­ cation of £120,320; and for water to Hous­ In 1962-63 the specials totalled £797,590. ing Commission estates a special allocation As the Premier will remember well, we took of £77,890. For sewerage to the Salisbury the trouble to state a special and extra­ State schools-something the Council could ordinary case to the Loan Council. What not manage and we pressed it to do-we is more, we succeeded in having it accept made a special allocation of £27,000. For the case so that we could provide sewerage an area for industrial development on Tarra­ to the suburbs of Wynnum and Manly. The gindi Road a special allocation of £10,400 Premier well knows that we received mes­ was made, and for the Colmslie Ferry a sages expressing the extreme gratitude of the special allocation of £460,665. That is a total of £2,010,691. Council for stating this case and for the way in which we argued it to secure the neces­ These special allocations caused some sary result. In that year the Council received heartburnings in certain quarters and it is a special grant of £214,800 for the Wynnum­ appropriate that I should say something Manly sewerage. Again it is not to the credit about them. With one exception, the local particularly of this Government because once authorities of this State receive an approval more extra money was available from the for a detailed works programme with a Loan Council, but in 1963 £400,000 was specific amount allotted to each separate task. allotted to the Brisbane City Council. Then The sole exception is the Brisbane City we made an additional allocation of £32,790, Council, where the approval is basically for and our instalment on the five-year plan for a bulk sum leaving the Council to work out sewering Housing Commission estates was its allocation for its detailed works £150,000. So in 1962-63 the specials totalled programme. The only departure from this £797,590. practice is in relation to these special alloca­ tions. I want the Committee to observe In 1963-64 the specials totalled £665,400. that none of these specials originates from It was a bigger year for Wynnum-Manly, the our desire to direct. Every one was sought figure being £450,000. Again there was specially by the Council for the designated £150,000 for the sewering of Queensland purpose and all we have done is to accede Housing Commission estates. We came in to those requests. Naturally if we find with £51,000 special contribution towards allocation for a special purpose we tie it to the extension of sewerage to sections of the that special purpose. Surely no-one would Hamilton Lands area. Large passenger ships suggest, for example, that we should find were berthing at Hamilton in an unsewered allocation for £646,500 for services to the area. Vast ships with thousands of pas­ oil refineries and that the money should be sengers on board were being brought into diverted to some other purpose. Indeed, I the port of Brisbane. The wharf would be say quite plainly that if that were to happen a seething mass of people waiting to receive -if the work was not done and the money the visitors, but there were no sewerage was used for another purpose-there would facilities at all on the wharf. I leave what happened to the imagination of hon. mem­ be no more specials. bers. When we drew this position to the Mr. Melloy: You did not ask the Council attention of the Council they said that they to ask for it for those purposes? You did could not encompass it within their alloca­ not suggest to the Council, "If you ask for tion, and we gave them a special £51,000 to money for this we will give it to you"? commence that work. We also allotted £14,400 for the kerbing and channelling of Mr. HILEY: We probably spoilt them Queensland Housing Commission areas in so much in earlier years that they think if Upper Mount Gravatt. they ask for the specials they are most likely Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 65 to get them. In fact, if they ask for these State activities. All were in accordance specials they originate it and we accede to with the specific requests made by the their request. Council. But for these special cases, the Council would not have received the However, it is clear that there is still some favourable treatment it did. Let me make misconception in some circles, and to clear it clear Vhat the Government has no desire the air I propose to read the following letter or intention to dictate the Council's works which I sent to the Lord Mayor after he saw programme. We did no more or less than me recently- to accede to certain Council requests for "My Dear Lord Mayor, special assistance-requests which we felt I refer to your interview with me this reasonable. morning on the Council's approved deben­ If bona fide savings do occur in any ture programme for the current financial of the special items, I am quite willing year. to consider any specific proposal for their Loan Council, in approving the semi­ re-use for other works. governmental debenture raising programme However, I must make it clear that the for 1963-1964 and 1964-1965, provided allocation is for such special works and for certain special items. These items I could not accept a position of the works were the construction of bulk sugar instal­ being omitted from the programme and lations and the sewering of Wynnum and some general works substituted. Manly. The approval by Loan Council in each year is set out in the following Having received a special allocation for table:- special purposes from Loan Council, the State is under an obligation to apply any -- Ordinary Specials Total saving in general debenture allocation against these special allocations. In con­ £ £ £ 1963-64 .. 23,311,000 2,677,000 25,988,000 sequence it is quite improbable that savings 1964--65 .. 24,023,000 955,000 24,978,000 in debenture allocation will occur during Difference + 712,000 - 1,722,000 - 1,010,000 the year which will be capable of being redistributed. If the State's capacity to make Treasury loans increases during the Now, how did Brisbane City Council fare year, I would be willing to consider the against this general background? The story position of Brisbane City Council. I can is best told by th·~ following table relating make no promises in that behalf. After to City Council allocation:- all, as this letter shows, the Council has received more favourable treatment this Special Ordinary (Sewerage Total year than other borrowing authorities." -- ofWynnum and Manly) Those facts should leave the Committee in no doubt of the degree or nature of the £ £ £ special assistance. So that the amounts can 1963-64 .. 5,564,000 450,000 6,014,000 1964--65 .. 6,705,000 295,000 7,000,000 be compared with the last three years of our predecessors I quote the following Difference +4,141,000 - 155,000 + 986,000 figures- £ You will see that for the whole of 1954-55 nil 1961-62 858,000 Queensland, Loan Council approved an 1955-56 nil 1962-63 797,590 increase in ordinary debenture allocation 1956-57 nil 1963-64 665,400 of £712,000. Brisbane City Council 1964-65 2,010,691 received an increase of £1,141,000 i.e. Mr. Mann: They might not have asked for £429,000 more than total increase for the any in those years. State. It must be obvious to you that allocation for other authorities on the Mr. HILEY: That is true, but those figures debenture programme •has suffered to show the result. This year, the amount of make this possible. It is true that the special assistance has climbed to the almost special debenture allocation for the sewer­ astronomical figure of £2,010,691. ing of Wynnum and Manly fell by £155,000. However, this decrease arose I would not want the Committee to from the approved construction pro­ imagine that all the Council's requests are gramme. It was not a reduction by Loan granted a special allocation. They are not­ Council or the State. Obviously, as the we just have not enough money to meet them special work is completed, this special all. But where we see that the Council is allocation must lapse. faced with an important new burden, such as when the refineries came to Brisbane, we do You raised with me the question of try to help. the separate items of allocations shown on the Council list. I would point out t

Mr. HILEY: I think the hon. member Mr. HILEY: It is a pity his study was not should resist the temptation to ask that ques­ a bit fuller. Last year we made a free tion, because he will be infinitely embarrassed grant of subsidies to local authorities total­ if I answer it. ling £4,922,642, which is more than was paid Mr. Bennett: You are not game to answer by every other Government in Australia put it without getting approval from Wickham together. Terrace. I am quite confident in stating that nowhere Mr. HILEY: Most of the hon. member's in Australia is local government afforded the colleagues would know. I assure him that financial assistance that occurs in Que>ensland. the person concerned is a member of his own On top of the subsidies, the State imposes a party. road maintenance tax, bears the entire cost Mr. Bennett: You name him. of its collection and the odium of its applica­ tion, and from the proceeds makes free grants Mr. HILEY: I do not hate him as much to local authorities which last year totalled as the hon. member does. I will not name £600,115. him. In the world of politics we tend to become Finally, of course, the City Hall found a rather case-hardened to the half-truth and the way round their problem and the retirement untruth, but we should be able to perceive from electricity generation took place; but, some objectivity and accuracy in any expres­ as I have said, there was a delay of four sion from the seat of higher learning in our years that cost millions of pounds. community. I fear that this expression was But if delays have proved damaging, they made without whoever was responsible for are not fatal. Electricity has now been it first gathering the facts. Some years ago transferred and is functioning well. The the Local Government Association caused a Roads Committee is pressing on with its task. comparative study of local government Personally, I have no doubt that its work finance to be made. and the report showed will result in the Government's adding quite quite clearly that governmental assistance in a substantial figure to the already impressive Queensland was better than that in any other total of assistance that is received under so part of Australia. As the earlier parts of this many headings. address have shown, the habit-the trend of assistance--is not dwindling. On the con­ Finally, may I say a word about the subsidy that has been paid as a free grant to the trary, it is still extending. Council over recent years. Last year we It will have been observed by the Com­ paid £1,347,761; in the last three years a mittee that one of the matters on which total of £3,217,746. In Labour's last three special assistance was granted was the sum years in office the amount was £2,028,291. of £460,665, in relation to the cross-river These figures should dispel any notion that ferry at Colmslie. Because this impinges on this Government is unsympathetic to local a matter of ke-en topical interest, that is, the government in general and to the Brisbane possibility of constructing a cross-river tunnel, City Council in particular. Indeed, I should it is fitting that I should have something make it clear that, if the Lord Mayor and further to say on this subject. I believe that I do not always see eye to eye on all matters, this question of a tunnel nearer the mouth of he has never shown other than appreciation the river was the subject of desultory con­ for the Government's understanding of the sideration through the years. So far as this needs of the Council and for the assistance Government is concerned, I raised it first that we have been able to extend. His in 1962. At that time the credit squeeze was thanks over some of the matters where help in full blast; there was considerable anxiety has been secured has been most warmly and by the Government as to the level of employ­ freely expressed. ment generally, and I raised thoe matter with However, the Lord Mayor's appreciation my Cabinet colleagues as to whether a tunnel has not, apparently, been shared by some was feasible from an engineering point of aldermen or some other persons. I hope view and whether its economy was likoely to that a perusal of the cold facts that I have be rewarding on a toll basis. taken the trouble to set out will convince Mr. Sherrington: It is not Sam's idea at them of the width and depth of our assistance all? and its infinite improvement over the measure accorded by our predecessors. Mr. HILEY: He is well and truly While I am on the subject of local authority enthusiastic about it, make no mistake about assistance, I note that a speaker from the that. university was recently decrying the meagre I had to make it clear to my colleagues support given to local authorities by this that the pressur•e on our existing resources Government, and he accused us of not hav­ made it undesirable to consider it merely on ing any real awareness of their problems. It the basis of diverting the use of loan moneys, is obvious that he has not the foggiest know­ which would merely switch them from project ledge of his subject. If he had, he surely A to project B. From an employment point must have studied our subsidy scheme, which of view that would accomplish nothing. My is unique in Australia. whole desire was to find a way of carrying Mr. Hanlon: He studied how much extra out this task as a private exercise on a suitable revenue you received in the last year. franchise basis. 68 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

The Premier took the matter in hand from generous towards the Council, and he con­ that point and arranged with the trasted that generosity with the financial pro­ Co-ordinator-General of Public Works, Sir vision made by the Labour Government up James Holt, to make an examination of its till 1957. Obviously, when dealing with feasibility. The result of the study by Sir such a matter the Treasurer has the advantage James Holt left no doubt concerning the of every other honourable member of the engineering feasibility. However, the study Committee inasmuch as he has access to all tended to show that the proposal would not the papers, files, documents and correspond­ be economic in the near future. ence passing between himself and his officers and rhe various local authorities throughout In the course of this study, some contact the State, including the Brisbane City was made with large constructions firms which Council. He has the opportunity of using were likely to be interested. Only one indica­ very skilful officers in the compilation of tion of interest was received; that was from figures which suit the presentation of .his a company which clearly lacked the financial present case. It would be wrong of me to capacity for a venture of this nature. attempt on this occasion to refute what the The Government's present attitude is to honourable gentleman has said because watch the situation with a suspended interest. obviously it would require access to some It regards the cross-river ferry as a helpful of the documents and consultation with City intermission and it has no doubt that if, by Council officers in order to determine whether some happy chance, a cross-river tunnel were his conclusions are fairly based. to come in advance of the economic life of the ferry, there would be other places where Mr. Walsh: A lot of half-truths. the ferry could be used and its use would Mr. DUGGAN: As the Treasurer is not prove to be quite helpful; so that the expendi­ unskilled either in the use of figures or in ture on the craft itself would not be wasteful. the method of their presentation one would As for the tunnel proposal, the Govern­ be foolish, wirhout adequate preparation, to ment will always be prepared to consider­ make irresponsible statements in refutation. and to consider helpfully and sympathetically All I should like to say on this matter is -any proposal advanced by people of com­ that irrespective of what figures are presented petence in this field and who will themselve-s there is growing up in the community, par­ be hazarding from their own resources at ticularly in the metropolitan area, a feeling least a fair proportion of the necessary that there is a lack of co-operation between capital. We should hope that there would be the Government and the Council, or between an opportunity for local participation but we the Council and the Government. I am not are not at all anxious ·for the promotion to blaming either particularly, but there is the rely entirely on the local investment field. feeling that this important State capital is We feel there should be the discipline of a being impeded in its proper development fair degree of risk participation by whoever because there is not proper co-operation on proposes the scheme. Our present view is the part of those who should be concerned that the tunnel could eventually work out in this matter, and that there is the need for well but we are apprehensive at what we feel active planning and the provision of adequate may be too long a period of waiting to finance for Brisbane to develop as a metro­ reach the break-even point. polis of which all Queenslanders can be proud. It is all very well for the Treasurer With no basis of risk participation by those to get up and talk about how much money who submit such a proposal, the risk could has been paid out over the period he has be that too many people might be hurt reviewed this morning. It is quite easy­ through their enthusiasm and patriotism indeed, it is the main purpose of Govern­ leading them to support heavily a project on ment propaganda-in every election policy which the return will be too long delayed. speech and on Government members' travels The Government's view is that if those who throughout the State, to contrast the expendi­ sponsor the proposition are substantially ture by this Government with the expenditure people who are prepared to risk quite a tidy by Labour in its last years of office. sum of their own capital, it should ensure Obviously with an expanding population and a more responsible approach and lessen any increasing revenue the expenditure must possibility that local investors will be hurt. increase every year, as it did invariably under every political administration in every State Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ of the Commonwealth since the States were Leader of the Opposition) (12.21 p.m.): The founded and since the Commonwealth was Treasurer frankly admitted that it is established. If we go through the tables we customary when introducing Appropriation will find that. Bills to deal with some topical problems. Invariably he has done that. Today he has As the Treasurer has talked about his taken the instrumentality of the Brisbane generosity it might not be inappropriate at City Council as an example of how he feels this stage to draw attention to some figures. that a wrong picture has been given of the For a start I will deal with the allocation degree of assistance given by the Govern­ for roads in 1956-1957. The Treasurer ment to such an important local authority. said he based his calculations on 30th June, He has quoted an interesting array of figures 1957. In the allocations made by the to show that he has been extraordinarily Federal authorities under the Commonwealth Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 69

Aid Roads Agreement, Queensland received There is one matter to which I think I £6,009,000 in 1956-1957. For this year, should draw attention and which is the key 1964-1965, the estimate is £11,835,000, to the programme. The Treasurer has con­ almost double the allocation from that source fined his remarks largely to the Brisbane alone. From figures taken from a docu­ City Council, and no doubt it may make ment published quite recently by Mr. Holt, valuable reading and may provide a valuable we find that the borrowing programme for opportunity for studying the various things State works and housing purposes and direct he has said. He mentioned that Queens­ Commonwealth payments to the States, in laud-and he spoke in the present tense­ 1956-1957, for Queensland, amounted to provides more for subsidies for local authori­ £19,250,000, and that the figure increased ties than any other Government in the this year to £33,376,000. It must be noted Commonwealth. Would it be true to say that that for all other States there are more or less that position obtained in 1956-57? Is it proportionate increases in these allocations. not true to say-and I accept the Treasurer's reason-that he discontinued the percentage For borrowing by local authorities for subsidy assistance because of the inability of semi-governmental purposes, and taking in the State to finance the applications that the smaller amounts, in 1956-57 Queensland came in? It is true to say that he reduced received £15,719,000. For 1963-64-the the percentage of assistance which local 1964-65 figures are not included-the figure authorities were able to get from the Labour was £31,7 58,000, which is double the Government. In some instances he reduced amount made available in 1956 to the muni­ very substantially the percentage rate of cipalities throughout the State for works of subsidy assistance to certain local authorities, this nature. and he did so on the grounds that it is Obviously, with swollen revenues, and impossible to finance them. I merely say taking into account other special forms of that in 1956-57 the Labour Government assistance provided by the Government~ accepted a higher percentage responsibility apart from the swelling of the internal in local government work than does this revenue by the T.A.B. and development in Government. Because of the circumstances various State avenues available to the I have referred to, it is easy to say that Treasurer-one would expect higher appro­ more money is made available now. priations in all of these contributions. At this stage I am not in a position, off the cuff, The Treasurer dealt with the position of to make an adequate dissection of the the Brisbane City Council. The Minister for Treasurer's figures. It is undeniable that in Mines and Main Roads said this morning Brisbane, in particular, we are developing that the hon. member for Kedron painted the city area, but with the increased number only one side of the picture of the traffic of vehicles because the width of the streets problem in Coronation Drive. In the main, the Government has painted a particular pic­ is contained within their present alignments~ with notable exceptions-serious traffic ture in regard to the development of this bottlenecks are developing. State. We have had painted the picture of this awakening giant, this State that is ready In this tremendous road appropriation to take off. In some cases it is claimed that grant, augmented by other road contributions it took off seven years ago. The Minister for such as the increased registration revenue Primary Industries said it was ready to take from the greater number of vehicles, we find off after seven years. Many glowing terms these factors in determining allocations: one­ have been evolved by the Public Relations third of the vehicle registrations, one-third Bureau, and when I hear the Premier making of the population, and one-third of the area a speech I envy the ability of those gentlemen of the State. On that basis one would expect to coin such optimistic phrases about the a fairly generous provision for funds in the great development that is taking place. area. In round figures, the metropolitan area has approximately 45 per cent. of the total An examination of population tables shows population of the State. It is fair to assume that, from 1950 until the Labour Govern­ that the number of vehicles registered bears ment was defeated in 1957, the proportion a similar ratio to the rest of the State. So of Queensland's population to that of Aus­ we may say that approximately 45 per cent. tralia rose from 14·61 per cent. to 14·69 of the cars and other vehicles are registered per cent., and, with the exception of one within this small geographical area. There­ year, there was a progressive annual increase fore, it is not asking too much for some in each of the years covered by this review. sympathetic consideration to be given to However, since this Government has been in this matter. power there has been a progressive decline in the proportion, namely, from 14·69 per In assessing what is being done in this cent. in 1956-57 to a projected estimate of regard we must take into account that there 14·41, or a preliminary estimate of 14·41, has been an almost astronomical increase in depending on whether reference is made to the provision of funds from all sources avail­ Table B or C, or I could use even the able to the Government today, compared with 1963-64 figure of 14·48. There has been a 1956-57. Whichever table one cares to look decline in each year that this Government at in the Commonwealth papers, one finds has been in power, yet the Government talks in the main, that appropriations hav~ about the vast development attracting people increased progressively over the years. and goodwill here. 70 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

In 1957-58 there was an increase of ·54 its service to the Gulf of Carpentaria and per cent. in Victoria, and an increase of ·19 the ports of Normanton and Burketown, and per cent. in South Australia, yet there was John Burke Ltd. accepted the obligation of a decline of ·28 per cent. in Queensland. carrying on the service, including Cooktown Does this not summarise the position regard­ and Thursday Island, with a subsidy of ing development in this State? I should like £4,000 a year. That service has continued to spend more time on this particular mat­ with efficiency right up to the present day. ter because I want the people who read In the intervening period there were altera­ "Hansard", and the members of this Com­ tions in the rate of subsidy paid. In July mittee, to weigh these various points that 1960 it was increased to £30,000. are made from time to time so as to ensure that they are put in their correct perspective. From the time when the first contract was entered into in 1921, union labour has been In the few minutes available to me I wish employed wherever it has been available for to deal with a matter which occupied a loading and unloading and the operation of good deal of my attention in particular this shipping service. Ships have complied places during my recent visit to the northern with Lloyd's standard. part of this State. I was concerned, among other things, with the problem of declining The company was informed in November population in our rural areas. I said in the last year that its contract would not be Address-in-Reply debate the other day that renewed and that the Government was invit­ I was shocked to learn that in the Cardwell ing tenders for a new service. The various area there was a decline of 300 electors clauses and conditions of the contract were compared with three years ago. I gave advertised, and it has now been transferred certain figures concerning the decline in other to Keith Hollands Shipping Co. Pty. Ltd., parts of the State. Obviously there have which proposes to operate a much restricted been increases in many parts of the State­ service to Thursday Island. I have here that is conceded-but I was concerned with copies of those clauses and conditions, with the drift of population from key areas of which I claim that the successful tenderer the State. has not complied in all respects. Time does not permit of my dealing with that matter, In Cairns, Townsville, and one or two but if the Treasurer cares to challenge me other places on the eastern seaboard of this on this subject I shall table the information State, as well as Thursday Island, I expressed at the first suitable opportunity. concern about the Government's decision to discontinue the arrangements regarding the This company has quite forthrightly con­ provision of a shipping service to the Gulf tradicted the provisions of, and obligations and to Thursday Island. I may not be able imposed by, the Commonwealth Navigation to get in all the information in the time Act. It does not intend to use waterside­ !J-Vaila?le to me, but I should like to put down, worker labour, and does not propose to m logical sequence, some of the things which employ members of the Seamen's Union. I consider should be in the pages of These obligations John Burke Ltd. faithfully "Hansard". carried out since the formation of the com­ pany and its receiving this contract in 1921. I This Government has said it should attract think it is a shocking thing to have a com­ industries to Queensland. I can and will pany, encouraged by the Government, ~ive, and I have given on previous occasions, operating under these conditions. mstances where companies have come to this The effect is that there will be loss to State and spent large sums of money, but waterside workers in Townsville, Cairns, and have been frozen out because some particular Thursday Island amounting to approximately Government concession was given to a new £230,000 a year. The operations of the new company that titillated the ear of the Govern­ company will result in the dismissal of 12 ment with its proposal. No company of the permanent waterside workers at Thursday type envisaged by the Deputy Premier in his Island. There is a casual work force of 72 trip overseas, and by other responsible mem­ Torres Strait Islanders and Thursday Islanders bers of the Cabinet, is going to invest large who are used occasionally to load and unload sums of money here if it feels it is not to be ships in those places, and this work in future given reasonable protection and may be will be done by men working round thrown out, after. spending these large sums, the clock employed by Keith Hollands by new compames. I hold no brief for Shipping Co. Pty. Ltd. to operate their ships. John Burke Ltd. as a company other than One of them is 37 years old and does not that of an interested Queenslander and a hold Lloyd's registration. member of the Opposition who feels it his duty to direct attention to some of the com­ I think that this whole matter calls for plaints and criticism that he has heard from strong condemnation. The Treasurer will deputations and in private conversation in probably point out that the Government is so many places recently. concerned about giving a service to the people of Thursday Island. The present This company was formed in 1887, and freight rate from Brisbane to Thursday Island has always been a Queensland-owned and is £14 Ss. 6d. a ton, and £11 4s. 6d. a ton operated company. Many employees and from Brisbane to Cairns. From Cairns to former employees are shareholders in it. Thursday Island the rate is £10 18s. a ton. In 1921 the State Government relinquished We know that the Railway Department is Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 71 g!Vlng an indirect subsidy to this company. in a position to supply more cheaply than The organisation really operating the service merchants in Brisbane. In fact, Cairns is Thomas National Transport, the managing merchants will not receive any benefit. director of which has, I am unhappy to say, I understand, too, that the refrigerated made two or three unsuccessful commercial space in these vessels will be considerably less ventures in Nonh Queensland. His pearl than that available in the "Waiben." Without culture venture has been disastrous; his mining adequate provision for cooling and refrigera­ venture has been disastrous. He is the person tion perishable commodities will virtually be who really operates this company, because thro'wn on the de'Ck and carried there. I his shares certainly give him absolute control have figures relating to the capacity of the over the local man, Keith Hollands, whom vessels, but I have not the time to use them. I am not attacking personally, who is an Perhaps the hon. member for Tablelands, ambitious young man but who retains only Mr. Wallis-Smith, or some otheT northern a minute shareholding in the group. member will be able to make use of the The hon. member for Tablelands asked a information later in the debate. In addition question in the House about the co-ordinated to the lack of refrigerated space, these ve"Ssels freight rate that was being offered to this have no provision for passengers. There is a company, and we heard the remarkable reply great deal of talk about developing passenger from the Minister that it was not ethical to trade on the coast, but no provision for pas­ disclose what the freight rate was. Are not sengers is made here. we entitled to know what conditions operate In my opinion, this matter calls for a here? The ordinary freight rate to Cairns is public inquiry. I am not satisfied that the about £22 a ton, and we know that this Government is giving the people of North group's rate is about £10 a ton. About 6,000 Queensland and Thursday Island a better deal. or 7,000 tons of goods are conveyed from They will not be getting their goods any Brisbane to Thursday Island each year, so cheaper, and they will be getting an inferior the company is getting, admittedly through a service. It is open to question whether a book entry, an indirect subsidy of £70,000 a 37-year-old vessel will be able to. maint~in year on the volume of goods sent to this the service in bad weather. As I smd earher, particular place, as compared with the the person controlling the venture has been £30,000 cash payment that has been given to unable to make a success of two or three John Burke Limited, a firm that has been previous ventures in North Queensland, and operating here since 1867. I do not think that the Keith Hollands Mr. Aikens: Why can't Parliament be Shipping Co. will be able to ma!ntain .the advised of the rate? service to Thursday Island unless It receives considerable assistance. The Commonwealth Mr. DUGGAN: Rates such as this were Government accepts Lloyd's obligations, but shown when I was Minister for Transport, this Government has take'll its obligations and we are entitled to this information. very lightly and bent the~ to ~t .Mr. I want to know whether this is the position: Thomas's requirements. His obligatiOns that the rates of this pref•crential considera­ should not be any less than those that have tion do not apply to people in Cairns. I to be met by John Burke Ltd. or anybody understand that the gentleman concerned else with vessels on Lloyd's Register. wants to extend this co-ordinated rate to Forsayth, another 200 miles beyond Cairns, Because the people of Thursday Island and to serve the Gulf Country. The Treasurer the Torres Strait generally will not get as has said that it is the obligation of the good a service as they are getti~g now, Government to provide all-weatheT roads in because they will not get the service any the area, but information that I received when cheaper than now, because it will n~t g!ve I was in the North indicates that that cannot encouragement to Cairns traders but will give be done within a measurable time. It will the benefit to Brisbane traders, if not to a mean an expenditure of many hundreds of lesser extent certainly to a slightly greater thousands of pounds merely to meet the extent than ~perated previously, and because Government's promise to give the people this of the refusal of the company to abide by amenity. union labour and award conditions, this Government should be roundly condemned. Mr. Aikens: Apart from that, the Minister Why should a Queensland company payi:'g told us that it is not ethical to tell us our dividends to Queensland shareholders b~ VIr­ own business. tually wiped out of existence at the wh1m of Mr. DUGGAN: He did not say, either, an irresponsible Government? Vessels of whether there is a differential rate between this kind cannot easily be sold, so why some of the bigger and some of the smaller should this Queensland company be placed in companies in Cairns. I understand that the position of being virtually wiped out by people who get the ear of someone in the a company that is coming in and is not Railway Department can get their goods providing any of those. condi.tions? ~~di­ carried for £17 a ton instead of £22 a ton. tionally, well accepted mdustnal cond1t10ns Why should they be given this advantage have been violated. For those reasons, I over the small traders? roundly condemn the Government. The rate to be charged by Hollands from Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (12.46 Cairns to Thursday Island is higher, which p.m.): I have often been accused, with con­ means that merchants in Cairns will not be siderable truth, of being an advocate purely 72 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

and simply of North Queensland, and par­ position he holds-if I may use the North ticularly of Townsville, but I should like Queensland vernacular-in order to feather everyone to know that I have the interests his own nest, I think it is about time that of the State as a whole at heart and any­ this State did something about it. When the thing that affects the good name and the whole of the sordid activities of Mr. Rich prestige and probity of this State affects me. were brought to the notice of the Bank of I think it is the duty of every elected repre­ New South Wales the bank condoned his sentative of the people of Queensland to see actions to the point of merely transferring to it that the good name of our State is pre­ him from the position he held as securities served, particularly overseas and in those officer to a position of equal importance countries to which we sell goods and from and salary in another branch. In other which we buy goods, and countries from words, they said to him, "We are going to which we hope the capital will come to help allow you to hang on to what you have further develop this State. got by prostituting your position as securities officer. We are not going to punish you in I was absolutely astonished over the last any way. We are not going to be punitive; few months to receive, I think one could we are merely going to take you away from call them deputations, from very reputable that position," and, presumably, allow some­ people, some of them Americans, who came one else to move into it so that the new to me with a story that I found it very hard incumbent, if he cares to, can also prostitute to believe. It was a story that is being cir­ his position and destroy and defame the culated in America, and in other places, reputation of this State. and it is doing the reputation of this State considerable harm. When they asked me, I will keep to the facts. Miss Isobel "Is there any justice in Queensland?" I had Hannah died in Brisbane on 4 December, to tell them that in my opinion there is not. 1962. She was a client of the Bank of New As a matter of fact, I was honoured quite South Wales and had frequently consulted recently to deliver the Stevenson Lecture Mr. Rich about her financial affairs and at the Brisbane University and I took as my securities. She died leaving an estate of .text the simple statement-and I think I £40,000, having appointed Mr. Rich sole proved it to the hilt in a speech lasting 2t executor and trustee of her estate . . hours-that there is no justice in Queens­ land; there is only law made by lawyers Mr. Bennett: Who made her will? and administered by lawyers in the interests of lawyers. But I am not going to develop Mr. AIKENS: The will was dated 17 Janu­ that particular point. ary, 1961. The hon. member should listen to this. He will learn something about Here is a case in which I think this Govern­ justice, or the lack of justice. He knows ment could move and do something to protect very little about the law. Let us see how the reputation of this State, not only at little he knows about justice. home but abroad as well. I will be as con­ cise as I can; I will not worry hon. mem­ After making several minor bequests she bers with a wealth of detail, but it concerns left the remainder of her huge estate to Mr. the operations of one of our biggest financial Arnold James Rich "for his sole use and institutions, the Bank of New South Wales. benefit, absolutely." If that were not bad I am going to charge the Bank of New South enough there was the case of a rich American Wales with condoning what one of its officers widow. This is where the Americans come did to injure and tarnish the reputation of into it. They came to see me. I explained Queensland as a democratic, law-abiding what they could do-not in order to get State. justice, but what they could do in accordance with the law as laid down in this State . . It ~oncerns a man occupying a high posi­ They went away quite dissatisfied, but they tion m the Bank of New South Wales at its intend to "have a go". I will not discuss Queen Street office--a man named Arnold that part of it. I am not interested in any James Rich, who lives at Cavendish Road, fight between one person and another; I am Coorparoo. Arnold James Rich was the interested only in the good name and prestige securities officer for the Bank of New South of this State overseas. \Vales at its Queen Street office, and as such it was his duty to look after the securities Mrs. Elspeth E. Banham was the widow and the financial affairs of, and to give sound of a rich American. She left an estate advice to, people who came to him, clients valued at 370,000 dollars or £Al61,000. of the bank and others. Naturally a man in After the distribution of £4,000 to a few relatives and friends she left the remainder that position finds himself in almost full of this huge estate to Mr. Rich "in apprecia­ knowledge of a person's financial affairs tion of his friendship and advice, care of my and, if he cares to, is able to ingratiate him­ comforts and peace of mind." He gave her self with the various clients in the interests of that friendship and advice but I am not quite the bank; and I suppose there is no reason sure what the care of her comforts and peace why he should not do that. of mind amounted to. In this way, as the securities officer of the Bank of New South However, when he ingratiates himself with Wales, he ingratiated himself with her. the bank's clients in his own personal interest, when he prostitutes the high and confidential Mr. Bennett: Who prepared the will? Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 73

Mr. AIKENS: I do not know. For good­ for witnessing another person's will on a ness sake, let the hon. member go to the previous occasion. That is what Mr. Perkins Supreme Court and have a look at a copy of the Bank of New South Wales got out of the will. This is a serious matter. If of Mrs. Banham's will. This is the point the hon. member for South Brisbane is not I make. I say that the circumstances of concerned with the good name and reputation the drawing up of those two wills reek with of Queensland overseas, I am. putridity, corruption, and rottenness. Here is a most amazing thing. In the Mr. Bennett: It is a pity they did not list of minor beneficiaries mentioned in have a lawyer draw them up. Mrs. Banham's will she left a tidy little sum-I think it was in the vicinity of £2,000- Mr. AIKENS: The farther I get away to Mr. Francis G. Perkins of the Bank of from some lawyers, the cleaner and sweeter New South Wales, Brisbane. One might I feel. wonder why she might leave money to I really believe Rich prostituted his Mr. Francis G. Perkins of the Bank of New position as securities officer with the bank South Wales, Brisbane, a man whom she in order to ingratiate himself with these did not know from Adam. But you will two old ladies, and he now finds himself know now why she left it to him. Who with nearly £200,000 left to him by them, assisted in the preparation of the will? for no apparent reason. As I mentioned Who sold Mrs. Banham the idea as to before, he provided for their care and whom she should leave her money? The comfort and something else-"care of my only service that this Mr. Perkins did for comforts and peace of mind." I have brought Mrs. Banham-or was it for Mr. Rich?­ peace of mind to quite a few people, and was that he was one of the witnesses to I have comforted quite a lot of people, but the will of Miss Isobel Hannah, and he I did not pick up £200,000 under their wills got £2,000 under Mrs. Banham's will for as a perfect stranger. witnessing the will of Miss Isobel Hannah. [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] While Mr. Rich may not have drawn up the terms of these wills in his actual hand­ Mr. AIKENS: I was regaled during the writing, I think we can assume it was he luncheon break with some witty comments who sold Mrs. Banham the idea of leaving and speculation by several hon. members £2,000 to Mr. Perkins because Mr. Rich about the manner in which Mr. Rich ingrati­ wanted to pay off Mr. Perkins for the little ated himself with these two elderly ladies, job that Mr. Perkins did in witnessing but unfortunately many of the comments Miss Hannah's will. If that is not putrid and speculations were much too ribald for and if it does not reek of corruption and me to repeat in a debate in this Chamber. putridity, then I know nothing about it. I am very concerned about this matter, How did Mr. Rich ingratiate himself with because some Americans came to see me and this old lady? I think Mrs. Banham was told me that it has already been raised in 70 years of age and, incidentally, she was a State legislature in the United States of found drowned in her bath at Bowen Hills, America. They asked me if it was possible Brisbane. I am not suggesting that this was for anything to be done. I told them that, another bride-in-the-bath case, in which an as I knew and understood the law, the only infamous British criminal named Smith was thing that could be done in accordance with concerned, but she was found dead, drowned our law, but not in accordance with our in her bath, at the age of 70. Miss Hannah conception of justice--because we have none was 76 years of age. Therefore, we can in this State-was for any disgruntled or reasonably assume that Miss Hannah and dissatisfied person to file a caveat, and then, Mrs. Banham, at the ages of 76 and 70 of course, the onus of proof would be on respectively, had reached the stage where him to prove that undue influence was used they were very susceptible to flattery. We on the testator. do not know what other promises or induce­ ments Mr. Rich may have made or held Naturally, it would be impossible to prove out to either of them. We can only assume that undue influence was used on the person what he did or promised. We do not know; making the will because only the person who we can only assume. benefited by the provisions of the will would be still alive. The person who made the I am very interested, too, in the fact that will, and upon whom the undue influence Mrs. Banham, although she went to America was used, would be dead, and therefore could and married a rich American, was born at not testify, so the matter is determined Mt. Perry, near Bundaberg, and in her first purely and simply on, shall we say, circum­ will she left a small bequest to Mr. Edward Walsh of Bundaberg. I am assured that it stantial evidence and the opinion of the is not the hon. member for Bundaberg. The court on the matter. Keep in mind that facts must be obvious to anyone reading the judiciary always believes in the absolute the details of these wills and knowing the freedom of the subject. That is why it lets manner in which they were drawn up, so many crooks and killers off the hook. particularly the little incident relating to I am concerned very much indeed with Mr. Perkins. I have witnessed a few wills the good name of this State. As I men­ in my time and I hope to live long enough tioned, this matter has already been raised to witness a few more, and I have never in a State legislature in the United States of been paid off, in one person's will, £2,000 America. I am assured it will be raised in 74 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

the United States Congress, and if it iis, and I shall finish on this point. I have not this State has done nothing prior to its being exhausted the 25 minutes allowed me under raised in the United States Congress to clear Standing Orders, and I do not intend to the good name of Queensland, we will suffer weary the Committee with repetition of any­ by the reaction. Our good name will suffer, thing I have said. Here is perhaps the most the prestige of our State will suffer, and we serious case that, to my knowledge, has eve-r are likely to suffer economically and in many occurred in this State of a man's prostituting other ways. the office held by him in a responsible-till now, anyway-institution such as the Bank Mr. Windsor interjected. of New South Wales in order to ingratiate Mr. AIKENS: The hon. member for himself with these two old ladies, one a Windsor might not have a good name, but I spinster and one a widow, as a result of which can assure him that Queensland has. he benefited to the extent of about £200,000. I think that the most odorous feature of Mr. Smith: I ask the hon. member for the who1e business was the inve-igling of the Townsville South to use the correct title of second old lady, Mrs. Banham, into leaving the interjector. It was not me. £2,000 to a man in the Bank of New South Wales named Perkins simply because he had Mr. AIKENS: I beg the pardon of the signed as a witness the first will made by hon. member for Windsor. the little spinster named Hannah. The whole Mr. Bennett: You made an error. thing reeks, and if we, as a Parliament, now having knowledge of it because I have made Mr. AIKENS: I did not make the error hon. members conversant with the whole the hon. member for South Brisbane made facts of the case, do nothing about it and over the National Hotel. He has not heard allow the Bank of New South Wales to con­ the end of that. The interjector was Mr. tinue to operate, and its officers to prostitute Windsor, the hon. member for Ithaca, and I their positions of trust, the bank working mistakenly referred to the hon. member for under a charter issued by the Government, I Windsor who, as we know, is a Judge repeat that we stand condemned and draw Advocate, and a man very high in the legal upon ourselves all the odium that this case fraternity, in stark contrast with the position has brought upon the Bank of New South in the legal fraternity occupied by the voci­ Wales. ferous interjector on my right. Mr. DUFFICY (Warrego) (2.24 p.m.): If this matter is raised in the American There are not many members representing Congress, as I am assured it will be, and W•estern Queensland in this Parliament, and we have not previously done something about unfortunately that number was re·duced by it at an administrative level, this State and the Government. They saw fit to increase the its reputation will suffer. I suggest that the Brisbane representation by four and decrease Premier and members of his Government the pepresentation of that important part of should, in the interests of the good name and Queensland that supplies so much of the reputation of the State, suspend the State revenue of the State. Consequently I feel charter under which the Bank of New South that I should make some referenoe today to Wales operates. The charter of the Bank the difficulties experie·nced by people in of New South Wales should be suspended to Western Queensland. prevent its doing any more business in this State till the Government has conducted a I was rather disappointed by the speech last full and complete inquiry into the whole of Thursday of the hon. member for Gregory. this particularly putrid and odious affair that We held the view that he was a good weste-rn I have mentioned, particularly because the type who expressed his views without fear management of the Bank of New South or favour. Wales, in full and complete knowledge of Mr. Pizzey: He will be disappointed in Rich's actions in this matter, took no punitive yours, too. action against him. As I mentioned at the outset, all that they did when these things Mr. DUFFICY: He is not here, so he were brought to their notice was transfer cannot be disappointed. No doubt he is him to a position equal in power, authority, looking after his station out in the West­ and salary to that occupied by him as and I might have something to say about securities officer. that later, too. In carrying out my parlia­ mentary duties, at least I give the whole I have not, of course, had time to quot•e of my time to the electors of Warrego. I all the documentary proof available, but the do not want to attack the honourable mem­ wills can be perused at the Supreme Court. ber for Gregory in any way at this stage, but Each matter that I have mentioned here can I had to reply to the interjection so unwisely be checked and rechecked by the Govern­ made by the Minister for Education. I ment, and if we, as a Parliament. do nothing sincerely hope that this will be a warning to protect the I!OOd name of this State against to him not to interject again during the the actions of this man Rich-actions. I course of my remarks. repeat. that have been condoned by the Bank of New South \Vales-we stand condemned As I said, I do not for one moment want just as much as Rich and the Bank of New to attack the honourable member for Greg­ South Wales stand condemned. ory-he is a gentleman for whom I have a Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 75 high personal regard-but I think I am capital before being accepted as an applicant. entitled to criticise some of the remarks that If the hon. member says that under this he made in this Chamber on Thursday last. Government's present policy a man who is When the honourable member for Gregory £700 in debt can be an applicant, much less first entered this Assembly he did attack the draw a block, I say he does not know the policy of the present Government in a very facts. constructive way, and from a western point of view there were many matters upon which Mr. Murray: The £10,000 or £12,000 does the Government could constructively be not apply to all blocks. You know that. criticised. I noticed that when the honour­ Mr. DUFFICY: Of course it applies to able member rose in his place on Thursday every block at the present time. the Minister for Lands-I might say in pass­ ing that I regretted very much reading in the Mr. Murray: No. newspaper today that he is ill-immediately took his place in the Chamber, anticipating Mr. DUFFICY: All right, I will give the that the honourable member for Gregory hon. member some instances. I will give would draw his attention to many matters in him the instance of Nive Downs, which was his department that needed rectification. I thrown open by this Government. The am perfectly satisfied that the Minister for manageT of Nive Downs, a man named Ross Lands was agreeably surprised when the McLaren, who managed the whole of the honourable member praised him. For the property and had a guarantee from the first time in my memory, he not only Primary Producers' Co-operative-who have praised him personally, but he also praised sufficient finance and assets to guarantee any­ the policy of his department. body-was rejected for that ballot. I am saying that at the present time nobody who I noticed, too, that the honourable member has not the necessary personal finance can for Roma-I am pleased to see that he has be accepted. his hearing aid on and will be able to listen to what I am saying-was giving the honour­ Only recently a block was thrown open on able member for Gregory a considerable Inniskillen. Hon. members probably know amount of moral support. I suppose I could about that and they know also that the be excused, Mr. Hooper, for being slightly applicants for that pastoral lease had to have amused, because it is probable that those £10,000 in ready cash or assets. two gentlemen benefited more from Labour's Mr. Ewan: That is under the selective land policy than did anybody else in this system. Chamber. The honourable member for Roma, as he had a perfect right to, of Mr. DUFFICY: It is under this Govern­ course, enjoyed the privilege of an additional ment's system, and if the system that this area at one time when it was Labour's policy Government has instituted had operated at to build sub-standard blocks up to economic the time that the hon. member for Gregory units. The policy of the present Govern­ was successful in drawing a block he would ment is to grant no further additional areas. have been rejected. There is no question I do not want to argue at this stage whether about that, and the block he drew was a or not that policy is correct, but it is beyond very good block which he said was worth argument that the honourable member for £64,000 at the time he drew it. I might say, Roma did benefit from Labour's policy in in fairness to the hon. member, that the that respect. complete stupidity of this Government's land policy is demonstrated by the fact that in In the case of the honourable member my opinion Mr. Rae is a very good Crown for Gregory, had the present policy of the tenant. I have no doubt at all that, because Government been in operation when he was of his experience, he will make a complete a successful applicant for a block, his applica­ success of the block he has drawn. tion would have been rejected; there is no question about that. Mr. Murray: Have you had a look at it? Mr. Ewan: Why? Mr. DUFFICY: I do not have to look at it; I know the type of block it is. He will Mr. DUFFICY: I will tell the honourable make a success of it, and what will assist him member why, as he does not know. I am most is his undoubted experienc•e in land surprised that he does not, because he matters. His knowledge of western condi­ represents a western electorate. tions over the years will assist him also. That is why I say that it is entirely wrong for this The facts are, as the hon. member himself Government to reject people with the experi­ said in this Chamber, that his financial posi­ ence the hon. member has had and that tion when he was a succes~ful applicant for hundreds of others who have been rejected a ballot was that he was £700 in debt. That have had also. Men of experience with little is not my statement. It is the statement of capital but adequately guaranteed should be the hon. member himself. I suggest to the accepted, but that is not the Government's hon. member for Roma that he might look at land policy at the present time. the lithographs that are today being distri­ buted to applicants for ballots by the Depart­ Mr. Ewan: Mr. Rae's block was drawn on ment of Lands. He will find that it is neces­ the open system of ballot, not the selective sary to have £10,000 or £12,000 of personal system. 76 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. DUFFICY: The system of additional fully. For those who perhaps do not know areas and balloting for what was there was very much about the proposed scheme, let Labour's policy. The Labour policy, which me say that recently a recommendation was this Government had been trying to alter, made by the marketing committee of the was operative when the hon. m::mber about Australian Wool Board to the conference of whom I am speaking drew his block. the wool industry in Canberra that the Federal Government should make available If the hon. member for Roma wants to a sum of £60,000,000 to a marketing authority debate land matters with me I will take him to be set up by the wool industry to imple­ down to my office and show him a foot-high ment a reserve price for wool. Probably file of telegrams and letters received from most hon. members know that at present our people who have been rejected-many of wool is sold at auction and there is no reserve them wrongfully-from ballots since this price. The price received by the grower Government has been in office. I have been is the price obtained from his clip at in this Parliament for about 14 years. I auction. At present the suggestion by the have represented the Warrego electorate Wool Board is for the Commonwealth under the Labour Government and under this Government to make available £60,000,000, Government-about an equal time under which, with £20,000,000 it is expected the each. While I was a member of the Labour industry will provide, will provide a bank of Government I had very few complaints from £80,000,000 to be held for the purpose of people in the West, or anywhere else, about buying in wool that does not reach the the conduct of ballots. However, in the reserve price. seven years that this Government has occupied the Treasury benches I have had Mr. Murray: Do you think it is a good hundreds and hundreds of complaints. If the thing for the taxpayer to provide £60,000,000? hon. member can feel complacent about it let me assure him that the people of Queens­ Mr. DUFFICY: I am very disappointed land, particularly those in the West, are not in hon. members on the other side of the very complacent about it. He can afford to Chamber who should be interested in this be complacent because he was one who was matter. The Minister for Primary Indus­ emancipated by Labour's generous land tries could be well occupied in making a policy. Without any doubt at all he has statement about this matter. As a taxpayer, had the best of two worlds. When he was I want to know more about a scheme to a land-owner he had the benefit of Labour's which I am contributing and which will pro­ generous land policy, and now with this vide £60,000,000 for what is, after all, an Government in power he can sit on the affluent section of the community. Government side of the Chamber enjoying Mr. Lickiss: Will it not be a guarantee? all the prestige that being a member of the The idea is that the Commonwealth Govern­ Government might attract to him. As he ment will guarantee £60,000,000. has the best of both worlds I suggest he should not argue any further. At this stage Mr. DUFFICY: I know exactly what the I have no intention of debating further the hon. member has in mind. The Common­ atrocious land policy of the present wealth Government is, in effect, underwriting Government. it, and it may or may not be used. If the In the limited time at my disposal I should Commonwealth Government contributes like to refer to a matter on which the £60,000,000, as a taxpayer I contribute some­ graziers on the other side of the Chamber thing. I want to investigate whether or not should give us the benefit of their experience. the Commonwealth Government is justified in I refer to the recent proposal of the Aus­ making £60,000,000 available to this industry tralian Wool Board in connection with the for the purpose of instituting a little direct guaranteed price. We should give considera­ action. tion to the proposed reserve price for wool. Before two articles appeared in "The Courier­ Hon. members opposite are great believers Mail", one yesterday and one today, and in competition. The Minister who allegedly before the hon. member for Gregory made controls prices has told us on a number of his speech in the Chamber, I mentioned the occasions that competition is the best possible matter to the hon. member, who is possibly control. We have also been told that direct the largest wool-grower here-I was going action is to be deprecated. I have not time to say "on that side of the Chamber", but to elaborate on that point. I have given this that would have been ridiculous because mat.ter some consideration and I will elaborate there are no graziers on this side. He is on rt later. probably the largest wool-grower in the Two matters are inherent in this scheme. Chamber, and it would have been of interest In the first place, the woolgrowers do not to hon. members if he had given us some idea of the ramifications of the proposed want competition in the sale of their com­ reserve price for wool and how it is likely modity. They want a reserve price, and to affect the industry and the economy of they say that if their commodity does not Queensland and Australia generally. reach the price they have set for it, it will not be sold on the world market. Unfortunately I have not sufficient time to elaborate on this question but possibly in Mr. Ewan: You don't know what you some subsequent debate I will go into it more are talking about. Supply l25 AUGUST] Supply 77

1\tlr. DUFFICY: I know what I am talk­ unemployment in Queensland, which we know ing about. This will be brought in by an was a matter of great joy to hon. members authority with a bank of £80,000,000, made opposite. One of the prime factors that I up of £60,000,000 from the Federal Govern­ had in mind when I raised so vigorously at ment and £20,000,000 from the growers. I that time the subject of a tunnel under the am not talking about a scheme that is in Brisbane River was that, if pursued, it would existence, because it is not; I am talking have employed any number from 1,000 to about a scheme that was put up by the 1,500 workmen for a period of three years marketing committee of the Wool Board at or more. However, general acceptance of a conference in Canberra. the possibility of a tunnel was not then Mr. Ewan: Do you know that the scheme forthcoming. operates in New Zealand and South Africa? I venture to say that since that time there has grown in the minds of the people of Mr. DUFFICY: The hon. member for Brisbane a growing acceptance of this pro­ Roma will have an opportunity to explain it, posal. I want to say, toe, on the subject and I hope he does. of a feasibility survey that at no time since I should like to discuss this question with I made my first speech in this Chamber have the background of the whole of the industry. I spoken on the subject of the tunnel without After all, it is not only the woolgrowers who having had some very serious and helpful are concerned in this matter; the whole of advice given to me by those who know. the taxpayers of Australia, the land-owners, and the employees in the industry are con­ Very early in the piece-nearly four years cerned, and I want to discuss it on that ago-I commenced correspondence with the background. Foundation of Canada Engineering Corpora­ tion, which, in conjunction with Christiani Do not forget that there are only 118,000 & Nielsen Ltd., built the Deas Island woolgrowers in Australia, and about 15 per tunnel under the Fraser River in Vancouver. cent. of them supply over half the wool At that time I wrote to Mr. Chmielenski, produced in Australia. Do not forget, too, president of Foundation of Canada, and sent that there are companies such as Dalgetys him a copy of "Hansard" containing what I and New Zealand Loan, which recently had said and asked for his comments on it. amalgamated, running 500,000 sheep in Aus­ I was most encouraged by the results of this tralia, and Australian Estates, running about correspondence and the things that he had 300,000 sheep. to say. I was quite convinced from that moment that the engineering feasibility of As some of the woolgrowers on that side this tunnel was never in any doubt. The of the Chamber would know, 90 per cent. only doubt that may have existed was one of the 118,000 producers each run fewer of economics. than 2,000 sheep. This matter has to be looked at considering the point of view of The Treasurer pointed out this morning the small woolgrowers, the large companies, that Sir J ames Holt, I think he said, had and the taxpayers, who, if this scheme is conducted an investigation and had decided adopted by the Commonwealth, could be that a tunnel under the Brisbane River was responsible for providing the £60,000,000. not an economic possibility in the near future. Mr. Murray: Have you decided in your I am rather at a loss to understand exactly mind who would qualify as a woolgrower what feasibility tests have been conducted on under this scheme? this project, because the Foundation of Canada Engineering Corporation have Mr. DUFFICY: Some of the people who assured me that a feasibility test costs approxi­ will decide this issue are not woolgrowers. mately 1 per cent. of the overall cost of I have no time to elaborate on that point. the facility. In Australian money, that is a Some of the people on the controlling body variant between £80,000 and £110,000. who will decide this issue are not wool­ Mr. Davies: Are there any men of sub­ growers. stance associated with this idea? (Time expired.) Mr. RAMSDEN: If the chatterers on my Mr. RAMSDEN (Merthyr) (2.50 p.m.): I right would only be quiet for a while, they enter this debate because I feel, following would hear what I have to say. I crave what the Treasurer said this morning, that the indulgence of the hon. member for Mary­ I should have some matters recorded in borough, and, if he cannot be quiet, I ask "Hansard". I agree wholeheartedly with the him to go outside the Chamber to talk. This Treasurer's statement that more than passing is a serious speech. consideration should be given to the con­ struction of a cross-river tunnel. I want to say that the cost of £80,000 to £110,000 for a feasibility test is merely Some four years ago I moved on this one-quarter of what the Government was matter in the House, and that time was asked by the City Council to put into this closely followed, as the Treasurer pointed ferry proposal. Having looked at the budget out earlier today, by the credit squeeze, of the State and talked with the Lord Mayor when employment was one of the main issues of the city of Brisbane, I can find no evidence involved. At that time there was much anywhere that either the State Government 78 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply or the City Council has spent any sum of On the question of the wage structure, I money of such an amount on a feasibility got some very good advice from a gentleman test. who has just returned from Canada, who Mr. Houston: Don't you believe the had a look at this proposal, and who had a Treasurer? personal talk with representatives of the Foundation of Canada Engineering Corpora­ Mr. RAMSDEN: I accept what the Trea­ tion. I am assured that the wage structure surer said when he stated that he asked for in Canada is £A35 a week compared with advice. I should like to ask the Treasurer, £22 a week here for the same job. That through you, Mr. Hooper, some questions means that there is a differential of £13 a concerning the type of test carried out by Sir week for each man between the worker in James Holt. I should like to ask, first of all, Canada and the worker in Australia employed to whom he turned for his advice. I should on a project of this type. I point out that like to ask, also: What avenues of research the Deas Island tunnel was 3t years under were followed? What number of vehicles construction from the day the Government a day was it estimated would use this facility said "Go ahead" to the day it was opened, if it existed now? What rate of toll did and in that period the average number of Sir James Halt or his advisers come to the people employed on the project was 1,000, conclusion would have to be imposed so that and, at its peak, 1,500. One does not need the tunnel could be constructed? to be a mathematician to realise that if there Finally, I should like to ask this: Were is a differential of £13 a week between the any firms or companies-! repeat this very Canadian worker and the Australian worker emphatically-experienced in this type of and there are 1,000 of them employed for construction work consulted, and, if so, 3t years, the difference between the cost in what were those firms and companies? I Australia and the cost in Canada would be ask this question because I believe, from a £2,366,000, and a tunnel built here would be very close study of this subject over the cheaper by that amount. In other words, on past four years, that we have in Australia the Foundation of Canada Engineering Cor­ not one company that, on its own evidence, poration's own figures, I estimate now that has gone in for tunnel construction of the the Brisbane River tunnel could be built for type that is necessary if we are to have a approximately £A9,300,000. tunnel crossing the Brisbane River. Some Mr. Sherrington: That is your final word? companies have done sewerage tunnelling­ Sir Manuel Hornibrook's company has Mr. RAMSDEN: No, it is not my final done tunnelling of that type-but building a word. vehicular tunnel is a different business alto­ gether. I ask the question because of I should like now to say something else. the peculiarity of the type of construction I took a fair amount of trouble about this required. because, frankly, I want to know that when I stand up in this Chamber I can be reason­ On the question of economic feasibility, ably factual. On the question of the number let me say that the economics of it naturally of vehicles that would use the tunnel, again depend on the return on the capital invested. I raise the question: "Did Sir Jarnes Holt I have not heard from any Government find any figures on this matter, and, if so, source what the estimated cost of the tunnel where did he get them?" I pose that question would be. But from the Foundation of because my own survey shows that one Canada Engineering Corporation, to which I industry and three firms presently situated in was able to send a cross-section of the the general area of where this tunFlel is pro­ Brisbane River given to me by a Brisbane posed would, if the tunnel were there now, engineering firm showing roughly its depth, put 7,000 v·ehicles a day through it-now, its sub-strata, and all the rest of it, I was not in 10 years' time. And that does not able to find out that, in its opinion, the take into account the other companies and cost of the Brisbane River tunnel would be other firms in the Hamilton Lands estate and £A11,700,000. That figure was based on down to the river mouth, nor does it take into the fact that in 1957 the Foundation of account the private vehicles that would cross Canada Engineering Corporation had built the river and the added traffic that would the Deas Island tunnel, and it had costed be generated by this new facility. This added the Brisbane River tunnel, which is somewhat traffic that would be generated by this new shorter than the Deas Island tunnel, on that facility is no mean thing and I should like particular cost and added the inflation of to remind hon. members that when the Dutch cost that had occurred in Canada between crossed the North Sea canal in 1957 it was 1957 and 1964. Having done that, it then forecast that the Velsen tunnel would be a pointed out that the figure it had given me white elephant. People said that it would could be variable for two reasons: firstly be a failure, that it would be uneconomic, it did not, of its own knowledge as an that there was no industry there and that engineering company, know what the rate of the tunnel would have nothing to do except inflation in Canada had been in comparison connect the north to the south of Holland. with the rate of inflation in Australia over that period of seven years, which would, of Since Velsen was opened in 1957 the rate course, cause some difference; secondly, it of growth of industry has been so great on was not certain of the comparative wage both sides of the North Sea canal that two structures in the two countries. other tunnels are under construction and a Supply (25 AUGUST] Supply 79 third is on the drawing board-in an area being interested in building this tunnel on which people said could not support one a franchise basis?" He said, "No. We have tunnel. So I say that when we are talking never done it but that does not mean we about the economic feasibility of this would not. As a matter of fact, we would facility, when I show that one industry and be very interested because the firm that builds three firms can now, on what they know, this tunnel will be building tunnels in Aust­ cross that river 7,000 times per day, how on ralia for the next 40 years." He said, "If earth can it be said that it will be uneconomic we could not raise the entire capital ourselves in the near future? we would be quite prepared to float an Aust­ Mr. Bennett: What do you think of the ralian company to come in with us." ferry as an interim measure? Only in the last week I had the opportunity of talking to Mr. J. A. Zwarteveen of the Mr. RAMSDEN: May I say in answer to Netherlands-Australia Trade and Industrial the hon. member that if he was in the Development Council. He said he has no Chamber more often he would know. doubt at all that if the Queensland Govern­ Now let me again stress the economics ment is prepared to grant a franchise he of this matter. The Indooroopilly toll bridge can find enough Dutch engineering firms was built under a scheme somewhat similar sufficiently interested to come in on a fran­ to that under which I propose that this tunnel chise basis. be built, and when it was built we were in No doubt there have been changes in the the height of the war years, or we were very attitude towards this proposal. This after­ shortly after the bridge was opened, and a noon I suggest to the Government, through tremendous amount of the traffic that crossed the Trea·wrer, that it set up a select com­ the bridge consisted of defence vehicles. In mittee, as was approved at the Liberal other words, they paid no toll, and that was Party Convention, to inquire into the possi­ the position for many years. Yet I am told­ bility of the construction of the Brisbane I do not know how reliable this information under-river tunnel and to spend the necessary is-that the Indooroopilly toll bridge is pay­ £80,000 to £110,000 so that a proper feasi­ ing a dividend today of approximately 30 bility test can be carried out by some firm per oent. If that is so, it seems to condemn competent to do it. I ask that this be done all this talk that a tunnel would be so that we can cease this desultory con­ uneconomic. Only a few weeks ago some­ sideration of the tunnel proposal which the body told me that a tunnel would be Treasurer says has been a feature of our uneconomic. I remember Mr. Slaughter him­ thinking for many years past. self said that. He said that no Government could think it is economic when the economic Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) (3.9 toll on a ferry would have to be 4s. 6d., but I p.m.): The Treasurer appeared rather uneasy want to point out to those people who are this morning in his introductory remarks on worried about a toll that the toll depends on the Appropriation Bill. I-Ie appeared to be three variables: first of all, on the cost of the making a great effort to justify his Govern­ tunnel; secondly, on the number of crossings ment by referring to facts and figures which per day and, thirdly, but by no means least, on I did not find very easy to follow. I will the period of the franchise given to the firm have to read them in "Hansard" to under­ that builds it. stand them properly. As we all know, The Treasurer told the Committee this figures can be presented in ·such a way that morning that when this matter was previously they appear favourable to one Government investigated only one company wa·s interested and not to another. They are not the kind in the project, and that investigations showed of figures that we take seriously. Certain that that company lacked the financial ability vital facts, which it is necessary to men­ and capacity to carry it out. I suggest that tion, can be overlooked. When they are since then new interests have been aroused. taken into account the figures will present In previous Press statements I have never an entirely different picture from the one mentioned names because I did not have otherwise created. The Treasurer is a past­ permission to use them at that time. I now master in this art of presenting a certain have. I mention that John Holland and picture. I hand it to him that when he Company, a Melbourne firm presently gets to his feet the picture he paints can engaged in Queensland on the construction appear very convincing. VIe will have a good of the Calcap power station-certainly a firm look at the facts and figures as pre·,ented. of some financial resources-has said that In the short time available to me I wish it would be interested and would like to give to lodge a serious protest on behalf of the further consideration to the project. I citizens of Townsville against the cutting remember hearing Mr. Morris, of K. D. down in the amount of new debenture loans Morris & Sons Pty. Ltd., on television­ and subsidies for the Townsville City Council. Ch;mnel CJ I Jhink it was-posing the question, Nobody can accuse me of being the mouth­ "Why give it to overseas firms? Plenty of piece for the Townsville City Council-far us in Australia could do it." Only recently from it. Since the last council election it Sir Manuel Hornibrook made a similar state­ seems to me that council members regard ment. I asked an Australian director of me as their public enemy No. 1. I do not a very big Canadian firm, "Would the policy mind that, but no accusation can be made of your company preclude your firm from that I am their mouthpiece. I speak today so Suppiy [ASSEMBLY] Suppiy on behalf of the citizens of Townsville. Mr. TUCKER: I allowed the hon. gentle­ When loan allocations and debentures are man to make that interjection, and I cut, as on this occasion, every citizen of acknowledge it. By way of argument in Townsville is concerned. To illustrate the the other direction, how is it that the Towns­ drastic cuts I point out that in 1963 new ville City Council was allowed to amass a debenture loans amounted to £483,521, and balance of £1,000,000 over the last seven for 1964-65 the sum is £267,258, a cut of years? Who allowed the council to almost 50 per cent. Subsidies for 1963-64 accumulate that large balance? As I said, amounted to £246,988, and for 1964-65 the I am not the mouthpiece of the Townsville figure is £142,366. City Council but I think it is unwise that there should be such a large balance. I shall quote the chairman of the finance committee of the Townsville City Council, Mr. Hiley: You are not suggesting that Alderman H. A. Hopkins, who said that the with the £1,000,000 they are sitting on they council's loan allocation had been cut very have less money to spend? drastically this year. He said that loan approvals, including subsidy, for the past Mr. TUCKER: I do not want to go into four years had been- this subject too deeply because I have not enough time. I acknowledge that there is £ this unexpended balance, which can be used 1960-61 731,000 only on certain works because it was raised 1961-62 862,000 for those purposes. 1962-63 837,000 1963-64 779,000 Mr. Hiley: They are all works which were nominated by the council. For this year the loan allocation is £506,000, which is less than two-thirds of last year's Mr. TUCKER: They are all essential approval. works; for example, improving road surfaces, When the council presented its budget it which have deteriorated over the past few did not claim that it had to lift the rates years. Such things do not become apparent because of this drastic cut. It put forward in only one year. Next year, following many other ideas and reasons why, on this unseasonal rains, we could be faced with occasion, rates again had to be lifted. The heavy expenditure in that direction. council claimed that because of the increased Mr. Hiley: That is revenue work, not loan basic wage and various other matters it had fund work. to be done. I claim it is because of these drastic cuts and, make no mistake, rates Mr. TUCKER: l'viuch of the money that are pretty solid in Townsville at present. I should be used on revenue work is being base my argument on a quotation from spent on work for which loan moneys should Alderman Roberts's report to the Townsville be used. I referred to that subject a City Council in which he said, "It has been moment ago. The council cannot raise necessary to increase kerbing and channelling certain loans for kerbing and channelling, in the budget because money provided by so revenue has to come in to stop up the gap. way of loan for kerbing and channelling has The Townsville City Council, or any other been severely cut." If they have to raise council for that matter, should not be allowed this money from rates payable to the Towns­ to have such a large unexpended balance ville City Council because they cannot raise which, I understand, amounts to almost it by means of loan, if subsidies have been £1,000,000. The people of Townsville cut, if the works, as they claim, must go should not be rated as a result of that sort ahead-and in fact, they must go ahead in of thing. Somewhere along the line the the city because we are moving very quickly Treasurer, or those under him, should have and cannot afford to let things deteriorate, been able to see what was happening and although they are deteriorating in some stop it long before it was necessary to cut instances-naturally there will be an increase the new debenture loans so drastically. in rates. Last week we were told the rates must rise and as a result of these cuts the That unexpended balance is incurring people of Townsville have an added burden liability, and is another burden on the citizens placed on their shoulders. of Townsville. I admit that the Treasurer probably has no control over that, but I put I will cut across the Treasurer's path this argument forward as being logical: if because he is probably saying to himself, this had been corrected over the years, such "I will cut this fellow off and put forward a large balance would have not been accumu­ the real reason for these cuts." I know lated. It is something like the credit squeeze exactly what he will say. He will say, "The some years ago when the brakes were applied reason for these cuts is the result of the suddenly and everything stopped. Somebody carry-over of unexpended balances held by in the Treasury suddenly realised that the the Townsville City Council." I see him Townsville City Council had an unexpended nodding his head, so I am correct. balance of almost £1,000,000, and something had to be done about it, so suddenly Towns­ Mr. Hiley: Every council sitting on a ville lost something like £250,000 in loans great heap of unspent money was cut. We and subsidy. It is a stop-and-go sort of cannot spare money to simply lie idle. business. Suppiy [2.) AuGusT] Supply 81

The point I am endeavouring to make is which many people would benefit. I acknow­ that this fact should have been recognised, ledge that the university site must eventually that these people were amassing this amount be linked to the city but that is going to and not expending it as they should have take some time and there are many other been, and if it had been spread over a few more necessary' works required within the years it would not have come so drastically city. Recognition should be taken of the fact at this moment. There has been a cut to that many people in Townsville are at present almost two-thirds compared with last year's against work such as the building of a new allocation. Possibly in other areas it has bridge across Ross River until this vital bridge been a half. in the heart of the city is rebuilt. It seems to be like the credit squeeze. I I want to refer now to a qu.estion that I do not think it is good in a city that is asked the other day concerning dysentery and moving ahead so fast. It does not help the parasitic infestations among Palm Island people of Townsville. What happens to the natives. The Minister for Health replied- Townsville City Council is their look-out. I "Up to date the treatment of amoebic am arguing on behalf of the people. They dysentery has been by injection after injec­ need roads, and various other essentials, tion with the patie'llts hospitalised. This which now probably cannot be provided until is impracticable as a mass treatment next year, or the following year. We are measure. Dr. Sandars is inv•estigating new dealing with a substantial amount of money. oral drugs but has not yet decided which I mentioned to the Minister for Mines and is the drug of choice. When she has finally Main Roads that the Townsville City Council decided on the efficacy of this treatment had constructed a road from Stuart to the and the best method of applying it, mass new university site. It will eventually cross treatment will be carried out." Ross River to Nathan Street, and will be Dr. Sandars, who is a parasitologist and is termed the by-pass road. That will necessi­ well known in the medical field, has done tate a new bridge across Ross River. The a very good job. She went to Palm Island Townsville City Council claims to be going in March and April this ye·ar and carried out ahead with the construction of that bridge tests on the natives of the island, and eventu­ because, as the Minister for Mines and Main ally returned and made her report to the Roads said to me after I had made repre­ Department of Health. I know that she sentations to him, as the works are not on declares that Palm Island has an extremely a road declared under the Main Roads Act, high infection rate for amoebic dysentery. no responsibility for them can be accepted There are about 1,200 or 1,300 native people by the Main Roads Department. at Palm Island, and she claims, which I believe It appears that the Townsville City Council to be true, that amoebic cysts are present in has brought this by-pass road to the university the whole environment. site, and is going to construct a bridge across Ross River. This will involve considerable Although we may be able to help these expenditure. I feel that it could have been people with an oral drug, they would immed­ a job for the Main Roads Department to iately become infected again because of their build the bridge and by-pass the city. I base environment. Dr. Sandars has been working my argument on the fact that there is in the on that problem and hopes to do something heart of Townsville one bridge, namely, about it. Mention was made of a drug Victoria Bridge, just off Flinders Street, and called Humatin, bl'lt it is very expensive linking the wharf area with the main city to take orally. I oelieve Parke Davis manu­ area. The Treasurer has been OV•er that facture it. However, another drug, bridge and knows it well. It is a traffic Entestapan, is much less expensive and very bottle-neck and one of the worst structures good, I believe, and it might be pos'Sible to in the city. It is very old, and I believe that use it to treat all the people. something should be done about it. Port As I said, Dr. Sandars has done a great facilities are being improved and much money deal of work on Palm Island and I acknow­ is being spent on them. A good deal of ledge what she has done. She was the person traffic is constantly moving backwards and who went to Cherbourg and assisted there forwards over the bridge. Quite often when in the fight against round-worm, which I one truck is on the bridge another dare not believe is now being won. As a result of pass till the first vehicle is off the bridge. her efforts, we could well get something done That should not be tolerated in almost the at Palm Island before the coming summer. heart of a city the size of Townsville. The I certainly hope we do. city council states that it cannot do anything I want to put it on record, too, that in my about it because it has not the money to opinion the hygiene officers on Palm Island reconstruct it as it should be done, yet the should be in the field all the time making council is talking about building a bridge inspections personally. I do not know across Ross River. whether there is one or two there now; there Although the Minister for Mines and Main may be two. However many there are, I Roads says that this does not come within believe they should make regular inspections. his province, I do not fee-l that this expendi­ I understand that the department has asked ture by the Townsville City Council is war­ the hygiene officers to do microscopic work. ranted when there are many other pressing It is of very slight importance, really, and it works needed within the city itself from seems to me that their real work should be 82 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply to make inspections in the field and appear in itself is a joke, because these people come unexpectedly in the villages or places round to the mainland in Townsville continually. about and see what is going on. Apparently the only time anyone is worried is when they come to Brisbane and there is The doctor also mentioned that at week­ a chance of their bringing infection here ends children are allowed to drive round with them. When that possibility exists, on vehicles used for the disposal of nightsoil. In a hyper-endemic area such as this, that is immediately there is an examination; but there is a continual movement from the settle­ something that should be investigated. ment to Townsville and other parts of North Proper clothing and showers should be pro­ Queensland and I believe if it is good enough vided for the people doing that work. to have them examined before coming to Palm Island is not far from Townsville, the Brisbane Exhibition it is good enough to and I am worried about the people there. have an examination made wherever they Four babies died from dysentery in 1963, may be going in Queensland, whether it be and they were so dehydrated that they were to Townsville or to other parts of the virtually dead before they reached Townsville. northern area. I continue talking about this problem because I believe that at the moment the number I believe we should bring the hygiene on of hygiene officers is adequate. There are a Palm Island up to scratch. If we could couple of young doctors on Palm Island, but get an inexpensive oral drug-I believe Dr. the moment Dr. Sandars comes up with the Sandars will find one-and improve the answer in regard to the oral treatment, the hygiene on the island, we would be doing the Department of Health should get in and do native people a very great service. the job itself. I believe it is very necessary It has been mentioned to me that it is that tests be made on people moving to and thought that this disease can be transmitted fro so that we will not have infection car­ by flies. We know that flies transmit all ried into Townsville. All in all, if these sorts of diseases, and on Palm Island there hygiene methods are followed on the island is a very large area in which flies breed. I think something solid will be done for When Dr. Sandars was over there, I know Palm Island. for a fact that when she visited places in an My main reason for raising this matter is endeavour to find out the truth of the matter, to ask the department to continue to improve action would be taken before she arrived. hygiene on the island and eventually, For instance, if she mentioned that she was through the examples which the hygiene going to the rubbish tip, she would find that officers can give these people, raise their diesel oil had been poured all over it and ideas and responsibilities. fired the day before, which prevented her from finding out the facts. I do not think M1r. WALSH (Bundaberg) (3.33 p.m.): In she was there to catch anybody, but she introducing the Bill this morning, the was there to get the facts. If things such as Treasurer seemed to be mainly concerned this were stopped, somebody, such as the about the controversy going on between the hygiene officers to whom I referred earlier, Government and the Brisbane City Council could arrive unexpectedly and make inspec­ and the amount of funds that may be made tions, and we could clean up the areas in available by the Government to the City which flies breed, areas that are really detri­ Council. I suppose the Treasurer finds him­ mental to the health of the natives. self in the position that his predecessor did, If we continue to teach the natives hygiene of having to submit to all this criticism, and and give them an oral drug, we will assist I say frankly now that, without going them and ensure that there are no further thoroughly into the case submitted by the epidemics similar to the one in which four Treasurer, generally speaking I found that babies died. I think it would be wrong the local authorities' case in regard to claims to refer onlv to Palm Island, because there for funds from the Government could not be are manv other people coming and going sustained, and if I accepted in their entirety from other missions in the North. There the figures the Treasurer submitted this morn­ are manv who go from Cape York down to ing I would say candidly again that I do Palm Island and then move from Palm Island not think the Brisbane City Council's case to Townsville and that is worrying me. could be sustained so far as the amount of These people come to the city and are funds given by the Government to the likelv to infect at least some of the citizens Brisbane City Council is concerned. of Townsville. Mr. Hughes: They have been fairly well We have been very free of amoebic dysen­ looked after. tery in Townsville but it must not be forgot­ ten that we are in the tropics and we could Mr. WALSH: That is a matter of Govern­ have a problem on our hands. I asked the ment policy, but the Treasurer's outline this Minister a question about the 24 people morning confirmed an opinion I have held who were brought from Palm Island down for some time, that is, that to a large extent to the Brisbane Exhibition. I asked him the Government has assisted in creating the was it not a fact that they were given a test Jones image only because it suited the beforehand and he said that there was an Government, because Lord Mayor Jones examination to prevent any possibility of suited big business and everything in the infection being carried to the mainland. That camp was lovely. No serious opposition was Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 83 put up against the Lord Mayor and all this that it should assume the financial responsi­ fun-fighting going on between the Treasurer bility of the Brisbane City Council, or any and the Lord Mayor is just so much side­ other local authority. I must remind the show, as it were. If on some future occasion Treasurer that after 12 years of administra­ the Treasurer will go to the trouble of pre­ tion-administration identical with the paring a statement similar to one prepared C.M.O.'s politics-from the day Mr. Roberts here some years ago showing the percentage took over there was not sufficient money in that the funds supplied by the Government to the exchequer to pay the wages of council local authorities is of the local authorities' total employees. It was left to the then Govern­ revenue, it should do a lot to allay the feel­ ment to find the necessary accommodation of ings of those people who think that local about £1,000,000 to tide the council over authorities are not, and have not been, get­ that period. ting a fair spin from this Government or We can find many sides to this picture. from Governments in the past. It may be The Treasurer is very fortunate that he has that, having regard to costs, the deteriora­ such a pool of funds from which he can tion in the value of the £1 and the available do these things. I am not on the side of revenue on a percentage basis, previous the City Council if it is trying to suggest Governments were doing much better for that it is not getting the assistance that the local authorities throughout Queensland than figures presented by the Treasurer show. Let has this Government. me remind the Treasurer that many local I realise that this morning the Treasurer authority members will be interested to read knew full well that his revenue had been of the financial assistance given to the so boosted from different sources that he Brisbane City Council by way of free grants. was in a much better position than previous When I heard the Treasurer say that the Governments to make these funds available, Brisbane City Council had twice as many even though they were being spent in main roads within its areas as any other Brisbane to the detriment of the country city in Queensland-- areas. It will have been gathered from the Mr. Hiley: Twice as many miles of main Treasurer's remarks that latter-day interest roads. in the Brisbane City Council's affairs has JVk. 'WALSH: Yes, twice as m8.ny miks. arisen because of industry starting within the metropolitan area. I am not going to I agree entirely with what the Treasurer said decry anything the Government is doing to during the latter stage of his remarks, that help industry to become established in Queem­ one becomes case hardened to these half­ truths. It is true that the Brisbane City land, but I should like to know whether, with the assistance given to put roadways and other Council has more than 100 miles of main facilities into the oil terminals, the ratepayers roads within its 375 square mil2s. The•e is are to be called upon to pay a very big no sense in comparing it with Maryborough, amount for the construction of these facilities with 7 sq. miles, with Bundaberg, with 17 and amenities to provide transport and such­ sq. miles, or with numerous other areas like to the oil terminals, while at the same throughout the State. time ot~er works-roads, drainage, sewerage, I had better not embark upon what might etc.-might be neglected. It is all very well appear to be a speech in defence of previous to paint the picture that you are making Governments; as much as I would like to such great amounts of money available to do so, it is not my responsibility. I was assist local authorities in this area, but all very interested when the Treasurer said that the available money should not be going in the Government gave a free grant to the the direction of providing facilities for Brisbane City Council to assist i•1 solving its interests that should be in a position to pay traffic problems. I hope he will be able to for these things themselves, particularly when find enough from loan funds, or any other we have regard to the royalty paid on the source he cares to suggest, to overcome the oil extracted in Queensland. traffic problem constituted by the rail cross­ Mr. Hughes: Mr. Jones extracts every ing in Bourbong Street, Bundaberg. It is penny he can now from the people. no credit to anyone to have a city such as Bundaberg with a problem like this caused Mr. WALSH: I do not know that he by dieselisation and many other factors, with is extracting anything more than any other nothing being done to cope with it. council or administration, having regard to When the Cabinet meeting was held in its responsibilities. ~ Bundaberg the Minister for Transport was I am not here to defend the Brisbane City good enough to make a personal inspection, Council, nor is it my function, situated as unknown to anyone-with nothing arranged. I am in the Chamber, to defend the record He went along quite freely and made his of previous Governments. There are others own inspection. Within the limited time of here who will have to accept that responsi­ three-quarters of an hour he saw 350 cars bility. While it may suit the Treasurer to go banked up and now it is even worse. I put over certain fields of financial economy, there a proposal to the department which I hope are other sides to it, too. He very wisely said it will proceed to put into effect, at least that the Council may not have asked for any partially. I suggest moving the marshalling financial assistance in other days under the yards from their present location to the north previous Government. If it did, I do not side. I realise that a substantial sum of think the previous Government ever felt money may be involved in the complet~ 84 Supply "tASSLMBLY] Supply plan, but I am not asking for that. I am one has taken a job at one of the local asking only for sufficient money to be made sugar mills and will work the full season available to allow the marshalling and there. That is quite a good thing. I think shunting and so on to take place away from I mentioned to the Treasurer, when I put the main crossing in the main street, which up my previous request, that it is far better is the main highway in and out of Bunda­ for these people to earn £25 or £30 a week berg from the North and the South. catching a few fish than to be on social service benefits. I emphasise that the Trea­ Many people in Bundaberg are agitating surer rectified that position immediately. I for a new railway station. I have never have not bothered him with the subsequent identified myself with this local campaign, cases because I do not want to worry him even though it may be a popular one. I do with what I regard as purely administrative not have to get on-side with what is popular but will not solve the problem. The build­ matters. ing of a new station certainly will not over­ I have been informed that one of the come the problem. Bundaberg is used as a reasons why the department insists on the dumping ground for excess trucks from enforcement of the statistical figure of £300 Maryborough and Rockhampton. They are is that it is some evidence of the national shunted oft at Hundaberg, tnereby aggravat­ economy of fishermen generally. Surely it ing the problem. I assure the Minister that can be done by issuing a licence, and then on the last two occasions I have been there at the end of each year when the renewal it has been worse, and the sooner something of the licence is applied for, each applicant is done about it the better. can be asked to submit evidence of his income from fishing for that year. I cannot I know the Treasurer has taken a pro­ understand why a person engaged in a minent and personal interest in this side of foundry, and who has a boat and line and his administration because he likes to do a wants to go down the river and catch £50 little bit of fishing. Of course, I have never worth of fish a year as a relaxation, and been endowed with the authority of an sells his fish to the Board-not on the black honorary inspector or ranger, or whatever market-cannot get a licence. the title may be under the Fisheries Act to see if some of the fish he catches are under Mr. Hugbes: And mullet is 3s. 6d. lb. in size. There has arisen, probably more so the shops. because of the administration than the Act, Mr. WAL§H: The hon. member can argue a policy of issuing licences which I think this when he gets home. is a complete farce. In fairness to the Treasurer, I record that when he was in The man to whom I refer does not play Bundaberg I brought to his notice a case bowls or golf, but wants to go out and catch concerning a young fellow who had applied a few fish and sell them to the Fish Board. for a master fisherman's licence. He pur­ lVIr. Hiley: Does he catch them with a net, chased a boat and equipment worth £600, or a line? and a licence was issued locally. When the matter came to Brisbane the licence was Mr. WALSH: With a line. cancelled, apparently on the ground that he Mr. HHey: Then he does not ne•:::d a had no production in the previous year. licence. I submitted this case to the Treasurer. Mr. W AL§.H: Apparently he has been told and he immediately rectified it. I asked he has to have one. The Minister may be when anyone would be able to get into the telling m:::, but I am telling him that his fishing industry if he was ruled out simply officers refused to issue a licence. because he had no production in the previous lVk. Hiiey: He does not need a licence. year. However, that matter was rectified. Since then I have had numerous requests Mr. W ALSH: I do not know who has for assistance where licences have been gone wrong in this matter. This man filled rejected on the ground that the applicant in his application and submitted it to the did not have an income exceeding £300 in department. He assures me that he does not the previous year. desire to net, but wishes to catch only about I do not know what the department is £30 to £50 worth of fish a year. trying to do, but because of its action it is Mr. Hiley: The only application necessary likely that fewer fish will be handled by the is from a professional fish:::rman who is Fish Board at Bundaberg, and, if the san1.e netting. The man of whom you speak does policy is rigidly enforced in other areas, the not need a licence. same thing will happen there also. Mr. Coburn: He could not se·ll fish to the There is a suggestion that this policy has board? been pursued to protect the full-time fisher­ Mr. lliley: Yes, he could. men. Disregarding the fishermen on trawlers, who go out on the high seas catching prawns JVIr. WAL§H: I will take that matter up. etc., and go interstate even from Caloundra' When I rang and inquir•ed about these things, I should like the Treasurer to get his officer~ all that they could tell me was that they to name two full-time fishermen in the Bunda­ more or less insisted on the £300, and appar­ berg area. Of the two people who have e-ntly anybody under that amount is excluded. been nominated to me as full-time fishermen, Mr. Hiley: That is for net fishing. Supply [25 AuousT] Supply 85

Mr. W ALSH: I do not know. All I can it can be proved that there is extensive say is that people write to me and tell me development on a full-time-fisherman basis, of the applications they have put in. I shall the present policy cannot be justified. mention the name of one man. He is Mr. Corrigan, who works in the foundry. If he did Mr. WALLIS-SMITH (Tablelands) (3.56 not require a licence becaus•:: he was only p.m.): I enter this debate to add to what the fishing with a line, he should have ~een Leader of the Opposition said this morning. told so. He did not then have sufficient time to elaborate on the Gulf services, which are Another point that I want to make concerns one of the greatest problems that people in the protection of full-time fishermen. I the North have to face at present. should like the Treasurer to state who they are. There are not many of them, believe People in Brisbane and the provincial cities me. We are told that the aim is to protect may think that people in the North are those who are catching mackerel or mullet. exaggerating their problems. I can assure That is done for only part of the y•::ar. While all hon. members that they are not exaggera­ there may have been gluts many years ago ting them; in fact, I think they are being there are certainly none today, when cold­ very tolerant. During the parliamentary storage facilities are available. Gluts that recess I travelled throughout these areas, and occurred many Y• full-time fishermen, there may be this contract, I have some of them before some bas1s for what has b

In answer to my question of 20 August, hauliers to take it to Normanton." I said, which was only last week, the Minister for "What will the road hauliers charge?" He Transport told me that although Keith said, "I haven't got a clue." Hollands had a special freight rate, which he There is a man who says in the Press that was not prepared to give me, the same rate he will give a cheaper and better service was available to anyone who was prepared but when he is interviewed personally he to run a shipping service north from Cairns. says he has no idea how it will come about. So it now transpires that the public think That is misrepresentation right along the line, that the Government has saved £30,000 sub­ in relation to the schedule, the tender and sidy to John Burke but the public do not the promises, and where has he got? It has know that the cost of saving this subsidy reached the stage when the people of the was a rebate, or a concessional rate, which North are trying to imagine just what can will cost the Government £98,000 if the happen. Normanton at present is embarking same tonnage is carried in the coming year. on major projects that it has never pre­ It is no wonder that we were beginning viously seen. They have the town water to think that John Burke was not the shipping supply, the bridge over the Norman River, firm that was to receive this contract but the road development to Julia Creek. Where that it was already arranged and would be is all the heavy equipment coming from? without doubt some other contractor who How is it all going to get there? The con­ was in the running and was a hot favourite. tractors as well as the people living there are continually worried about it, so worried Then we have the promises Keith Hollands that one contractor went to the extent of himself made, appearing in "The Cairns stating, "Before this road deteriorates any Post" in an article which reads- more I am buying a semi-trailer myself to "A North Queensland shipping owner get the stuff here." They cannot depend on claimed yesterday he could offer a cheaper a man who has made the promises I men­ and quicker freight service to the Gulf tioned when he does not now know how he Country towns of Normanton and Burke­ is going to implement them. He does not town than the present shipping service. know which way they are coming from. He does not know what price they will be. "He is Mr. Keith Hollands." Mr. Duggan interjected. Then it went on to say: "Mr. Hollands, who has tendered for Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH: In two or three the new service, intends to rail cargo from years he will probably have to be subsidised. Brisbane to Julia Creek, and then truck Furthermore, we have evidence that that it to the Gulf. road between Julia Creek, Normanton and Burketown may never be all it is expected " 'The whole of Central Queensland is to be. We have read in the Press that it now being serviced by road and rail and should be built all over again. Forsayth to there is no reason why the Gulf shouldn't Normanton-what happens to Karumba, be,' he said." Burketown and Mornington Island? When I When one comes to dissect that statement raised this matter with Mr. Hollands he said, one finds that on the one hand he is con­ "There is a carrier at Burketown. I sup­ tracting to carry manufactured goods to pose he can go over to Normanton and get Thursday Island and then, to make it appear it." Imagine what the road is like from that he is keeping faith with the people of Burketown to Normanton, how far it is, the North, he suddenly devises ways and and what he would charge! means of getting them their goods. The members of the parliamentary party In July, when I visited Mr. Hollands, he who went up there know how the Normanton told me that he had given away the idea of and Burketown people feel about it. The hon. member for Albert was there. He knows how Julia Creek and was concentrating on incensed they are. For five or six hours we Forsayth. At that interview I had with me met with a constant barrage. That is happen­ a freight schedule I got from a shipping ing all along the line; it is not just an isolated agency. I had obtained the items so that I instance. Those people have lived there, could compare them, because at that time I they understand the conditions; they know was on my way to Normanton. I went to Mr. that the roads and the railway are impas­ Hollands and said, after a few introductory sable for months at a time, so that the only remarks, "Can you give me the prices?" He access is by sea. said, "I haven't got a clue." I said, "What To refute any suggestion that the ton­ can I tell the people? You promised them a nages are going down, I have figures to show cheaper rate and a better service. We will that they have increased. In 1962 there were let the better service go but you must know 37 tons to Karumba; in 1963 there were what it is to cost you if you are going to 170 tons. There were 857 tons to Norman­ give them a cheaper rate." He said, "No, ton in 1962 and 1514 tons in 1963. Burke­ I can't." I said, "Are you still going to town is the only one that has shown a small Julia Creek?" He said, "No, it is Forsayth decrease-735 tons down to 681 tons. Morn­ now, and if I can get the Minister for Trans­ ington Island has increased from 237 tons to port to extend to Forsayth what he extended 315 tons. The total tonnage is worth while, to Cairns I will hand over to a firm of road and it is very necessary to these people. Supply [25 AUGUST) Supply 87

While the parliamentary party was in Nor­ ways and means of giving a service that, manton it was a good plan to show members in a public statement, he promised would be from the southern electorates the stock­ better, cheaper and faster than the previous piling for the station properties. They were one. shown thousands of tons of steel posts, Mr. Davies: No-one in the North believed fencing wire, cement and other goods which him. are necessary for the grazing industry and the various landholders in that area. Mr. W ALLIS-SMim: That is so, but the Mr. Davies: A tremendous stock. whole crux of the matter is that it will hap­ pen. The Treasurer is nodding his head; Mr. WALUS-SMITH: There was a tre­ it has happened. mendous stock. Mr. Hiiey: More frequent, and cheaper. On 5 March this year I asked the Treasurer Mr. Davies: They could subsidise the if he would consider improving the facilities railway line. in the waters of the south-eastern part of the Gulf. His answer was a long way from what Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH: It will cost the I have just mentioned about tonnages. He Government £98,000 to get rid of the £30,000 said that the report on the prawn investiga­ subsidy. I ask the Minister to visualise how tion had not proved promising and he did not the balance of £68,000 could improve the think these improvements were warranted. railway line. There are only six men While on that subject let me mention employed on it, yet the Government is to beacons. On board the "Melbedir" we were pay £98,000 to get rid of the £30,000 sub­ stranded for 24 hours on a sandbank. There sidy. It is being done to the detriment of the was no beacon anywhere. These are facilities railway line. that are necessary in the Gulf area. Our If the man to whom the assurance has skipper was looking for beacons. He could been given that he will get the contract not see any but he soon felt the sandbank, does not know the answers at this stage, he and there we stuck. This is the same area is the wrong person to receive the contract. where the "Ilsa Clausen" was grounded for a week, when it was necessary to feed the Mr. Hiley: He has no contract for the stock on board. These are things that Gulf. You ought to know that. mean so much to the northern people. Recently I asked the Treasurer to consider Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH: Hasn't the contract reolacing the fairway buoy into the Norman been signed yet? River. It is simply a 44-gallon drum with Mr. Hiley: Yes, but he has not a contract a beacon on it. 'I he people are not asking for the Gulf. He has a contract for Thursday for anything elaborate-a mast 6 ft. high Island. with a fluorescent head so that it can be picked up at night-time. With the light on Mr. W ALLIS-SMITH: The Treasurer has the mainland at the mouth of the river helped me again. He has pointed out that they can work out where they are and get the contract is for Thursday Island. I am shelter, otherwise they must stand well off vitally interested in the area from the shore because of the prevalence of sandbanks. Edward River Mission down to Burketown. That is why I say it is altogether wrong While speaking about transferring freight that the man to whom this contract has been from Forsayth to Normanton, it will be given is able to pull the wool over the detrimental to the existing Normanton­ Government's eyes by saying that, in addi­ Croydon railway line if we allow this road tion to the service to Thursday Island, he haulier to come into the picture with Keith will give a better service to Normanton, Hollands and take the place previously taken Karumba and Burketown. by John Burke Ltd. in giving a service because the road is under water even in Mr. Hiley: That has nothing to do with normal times for six weeks, and sometimes the contract. for three or four months. If that is done and, at the same time the revenue from the Mr. WALLIS-SMim: No, but it has a lot railway decreases, I do not have to remind to do with the people I repres-ent, and with the Treasurer what its fate will be. The the Government's allowing him to get away last hope of the people in the area is for the with it. If he had proved himself in other railway line to be continued and improved. spheres over the years perhaps there would have been some trust in what he was about The Minister told me recently that he to do, but we could have no trust in a firm had sent a new rail-motor up there. Its that tendered in an incorrect manner and speed is 40 miles an hour. The speed allowed got away with it, and then mad·e promises on the railway line where there are no green in the local Press and got away with that. flags is 18 miles an hour, and, where there Then we have the Treasurer saying, "It does are green flags, according to the regulations not matter because he is only going to i1 is 8 miles an hour. That is the sort of Thursday Island. Let the Gulf go." That service these people are satisfied with, yet is what it amounts to-let the Gulf go. That the Government is taking it away from them; is what the people up there are thinking, it is taking away their established service. and that is what concerns me as their repre­ The man who is replacing it is looking for sentative. 88 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

The shire clerk at Burketown asked a previous administrations. I believe that Mr. Government member, whom I shall not name, Jones and the Labour City Council have been "Why does your Government subsidise the acting in the interests of all the people of transport of barramundi from the Gulf waters Brisbane in endeavouring to keep away from to the South, yet when I want to buy a arguments and dogfights with the Govern­ pound of steak I have to buy it in Mt. Isa ment, as happened in the case of the Groom and pay full air freight from Mt. Isa to and Chandler administrations. Burketown?" No-one could give an answer, because it was so ridiculous. Here we have From time to time many honourable mem­ the same sort of attitude-"it does not matter bers have made comments concerning work about the Gulf people; let them put up with carried out in Brisbane compared with it." Someone said, "We did not ask you finance made available for work in other to come here." I hope I never make such parts of the State, claiming in many cases a statement, whether it is in my electorate or that too much is spent in Brisbane. We not. should all realise that Brisbane has a square mileage of 360, which could well be I heartily endorse the efforts of the Leader compared with that of other capital cities of the Opposition to put this case prominently and other towns and cities in Queensland. before the Committee. If this sort of thing Brisbane is also the main outlet for the great is allowed to continue, to the detriment of majority of goods produced in the State, and the North, all the talk about development, it is essential for primary and secondary increase in population, and decentralisation is industries that the transportation of goods just so much hot air. If the Government is through the city be made as cheap as possible to be practical, it should re-develop these so that at all times a balance can be main­ areas, which were developed years ago. tained between the cost of production of Burketown shire has an area of 20,000 square commodities, the cost of transporting them miles in which there are now only 18 rate­ to the markets, and the cost of shipping them payers, yet at one time it was a thriving port. from the port. Mr. Davies: The chairman of the council Brisbane is the main centre for the entire gave you those figures, too. south-eastern portion of Queensland, and it Mr. WALLIS-SMITH: Yes. Those are the is essential that it should at all times be of areas where there is ample scope for develop­ great concern to the Government. These are ment. Do not shrink it any further by cutting matters that are sometimes overlooked. We off the very lifeline that those people have have at all times the opportunity and obliga­ depended on for so long. Everyone in the tion to criticise when the Government is North will take his hat off to John Burke Ltd. not doing what we believe it should be doing, and other firms that created that lifeline and and where its own appointed organisations have stood by them in their hard years. They are working in a manner that may sometimes have not all been good years, but they are be frustrating or actually undemocratic to getting easier now. Sometimes they can get the whole community. their cattle out from places that were inacces­ I should like to refer to the Traffic Com­ sible years ago because the Clausen line can mission appointed by the Government, which operate miles upstream from the river mouth. comes under the control of the Minister That applies, of course, only to certain for Mines and Main Roads. It is basically rivers. essential that endeavours be made to cheapen The Treasurer has refused to install beacons the costs of transportation within the city in some of the rivers, and we have seen boats of Brisbane. It cannot be taken as a matter strand•ed on the sandbanks in those rivers. of finding the cheapest possible method to I hope that the Treasurer will give favour­ overcome traffic congestion, which appears able consideration to the request for beacons to be the attitude adopted by the Traffic and allow them to be placed there. Commission. The Traffic Commission is a joint Brisbane City Council and Govern­ Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (4.20 p.m.): I regret ment organisation, appointed by the that I was unable to be in the Chamber this Government. Its members are the Town morning when the Treasurer introduced this Clerk, the Mains Roads Commissioner, the Bill. There are one or two matters which Commissioner of Police, and, as the fourth I should like briefly to put before the Govern­ member, I think, the Co-ordinator-General ment, and I believe they have ref•erence· to of Public Works. In his own capacity each some of the comments made by the Treasurer does a fine job, but their work or their vision, when he introduced the Bill. Speaking of the on the Traffic Commission seems to be city of Brisbane, he said that the Government limited to endeavouring to overcome Bris­ had been quite generous financially in recent bane's traffic congestion by the cheapest years. If we are to accept that as it relates possible method, overlooking completely very to loans, subsidies, and other financial matters, important means such as road construction a great deal of credit can be given to the internally and the modernising, as far as Jones administration of the Brisban•e City possible, of public transport. Council. Mr. Jones and his aldermen have brought knowledge and ability to the adminis­ In this matter I believe that the Government tration of the Gr-eater Brisbane area, and it has, over the last few years, been remiss, has been possible for the Government to particularly in the modernising of public work closer with them than was possible with transport. The Government has thrown Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 89 overboard the whole idea of the electrification to make the best use of his home, is, I ·of suburban railways, apparently because of believe, an undemocratic and arrogant way objections by people from outside Brisbane for the Traffic Commission to act. to the cost of implementing such a scheme. I believe that attitude to be a short-sighted There are many other ways in which tl!e one when the importance of Brisbane to traffic problem along Coronation Drive could primary producers is considered. The Traffic ~e . dealt with. . In my opinion, the speed Commission as it is organised at the moment hm1t of 35 miles an hour in the central has not the power to carry out the work t~affic area of Brisbane is too high. Travel­ of modernising public transport, or lmg at that speed in the central traffic area recommend urgent road construction to over­ makes one feel as if one is flying, particu­ come traffic congestion, which is holding up larly when crossing intersections. If the t~e movement of goods and people in the Traffic Commission gave consideration to City. It makes such transportation much reducing the speed limit along certain roads more expensive than it should be. and making sure that speed limits were adequately policed, the accident rate would I should like to mention an instance in be reduced immediately. which I believe the Traffic Commission has been guilty of adopting an undemocratic and Mr. Hiley: What would be the effect on arr?gant attitude t~wards many of the private the capacity of that road to carry the volume residents and busmess people of Brisbane. of traffic that it now carries? As I said, the Traffic Commission is com­ Mr. LLOYD: It would have no effect on po~ed of t~e Town Clerk, representing the Bnsbane City Council, the Commissioner of the capacity of the road or on the flow of Main Roads, the Co-ordinator-General and vehicles. As the Minister for Main Roads the Commissioner of Police, three officers and the Commissioner of Main Roads, Mr. Barton, have pointed out to me from time r~presenting the Government. I refer par­ ticularly to Coronation Drive because I to time, numerous accidents occur on Corona­ believe that a threat has been made that the tion Drive. A reduced speed limit would total prohibition on parking along Coronation not interfere with the flow of traffic to any Drive may be extended to other streets and greater extent than the present accident rate. mads in the city area. The decision may Wh~re the speed limit is too high, people not have been made yet, but I believe it is go m and out of traffic lanes and this in the intention of certain members of the turn, interferes with the tr~ffic flow' of vehicles that are not travelling at 35 miles Traffic Commission to extend that total an hour. prohibition on parking. I feel that a reduction to 30 miles an Mr. Hiley: It is not a total prohibition· hol}r is justified, particularly on Coronation it is only at certain hours of the day. ' Dnve, and that it would be found that the Mr. LLOYD: Originally there was a total !raffic would flow much more smoothly than prohibition on parking along Coronation It ~oes _at 35 miles an hour, with people Drive. Then, because of objections raised cuttmg m from one lane to another and by me, other hon. members, and residents inte:ruptin& the free flow of traffic by one v~h1cle tryu~g to pass another travelling at .and business people in the area a more 2.) to 30 miles an hour. I think it should tolerant attitude was adopted towards parking. be _given a trial. In fact, in the off-peak Many people using Coronation Drive think penod I can see no reason why there should that the signs indicate that parking is not be any growth in the accident rate on allowed at any time. They certainly do not Coronation Drive particularly if police make clear that vehicles may stop to allow regularly patrol that area, acting as a deter­ pas~engers to alight and then proceed on rent to breaches of the Traffic Act and their. way. Even that is going too far. regulations. I think this would overcome Previously there was a prohibition on parking many of the problems of free traffic flow . .along Coronation Drive between 7 a.m. and ~e differi_ng prohibitions along Coronation 9 a.m. and between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m., when Dnve and m other parts of Brisbane are traffic congestion was at its worst. This undemocratic and bad for business people allowed people who had houses and fiats and o~hers. · I_f one t~kes the case of people there to have visitors at night, and it allowed operatmg busmesses m that area one will tradesmen, doctors, and others to call. The find some of them operating as shopkeepers ~re~en~ circumstances impose a very severe and ?thers as manufacturers in a small way, l~m1tatJ~n upon people living along Corona­ and m both cases they are licensed by either tiOn Dnve. We believe in the British tradi­ the Brisbane City Council or the Govern­ tion that an Englishman's home is his castle ment. A licence has to be obtained from and Australians should be able to derive th~ the Brisbane City Council to conduct a greatest possible enjoyment from their homes. shop and from the Department of Labour If some people had known of the prohibition and Industry to operate a factory. A permit on parkmg along Coronation Drive, they must be secured from the City Council before would ~ever have built their homes there. a shop can be placed in any particular area !o depnve a person of the privilege of hav­ on that road. mg a baker or a doctor call, or of enjoying .any of the other services that enable him Mr. Pizzey: There is only one shop there. 90 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. LLOYD: Whether there is one shop Mr. LLOYD: We have the Town Plan. or 100 shops, what I am concerned about There again, I suppose it will be a matter is the fact that there is interference with a for the Brisbane City Council. I realise man's right to earn a living. I am just as that there are times when decisions have to concerned with one case as I would be with be made which will hurt certain people in 100, and I am concerned that people living the community. I am prepared to accept that. on Coronation Drive are having the enjoy­ The Government has a responsibility to ment of their homes interfered with by ensure that that hurt is softened to the Government activity. Whether there is one greatest possible extent. or 100 does not matter to me. In the original scheme that was put for­ Mr. Hiley: This is not new. You had ward it was not necessary to go to that prohibitions on similar parking in Stanley extent. It was not necessary for the Traffic Street for years. Commission to take the action it did. I do not think that the Superintendent of Mr. LLOYD: We had prohibitions on Traffic would have been in complete agree­ parking in many places, but not to the extent ment with it. Apparently three members of that is going on now. This applies at all hours of the day, up till 10 o'clock at night. the Traffic Commission live in that area. Coming through there twice daily at the Mr. Hiley: After you ouarrelled with the peak hour they decided that this action would original prohibition the Minister proposed to have to be taken. It was unnecessary. The make it easier. Minister listened very sympathetically and Mr. Evans: The City Council promised carefully to the case I put forward, and t~ere to put in bays, or to have bays put in. was some rectification of the very obv1ous wrongful action that was taken originally. Mr. LLOYD: The City Council promised In future, when there is a definite indication to do this or that! Are we going to hand on the part of the Traffic Commission to have the whole matter back to the City Council, such a prohibition on parking in other pa_rts or are we going to handle it? The Traffic of the city, I believe that the factors w~1ch Commission is handling this matter and I are being put forward should be taken mto argue it because, firstly, it is an interference account. Action must be taken to ensure with people's rights to enjoy their homes and that nobody gets hurt unnecessarily. As businesses. My other point is that the far as possible everything must be done Traffic Commission and the Government are to protect peopl~ who have been living in a responsible for works of a major nature to locality for a very long time from any undue overcome traffic congestion that is causing these unfortunate decisions to be made, and interference. to my way of thinking the Government is Although the Treasurer has given the not doing enough. Committee a survey of what has been spe_nt in Brisbane, there is still a very defimte I compliment the Minister on having obligation on the Government to ensure _th~t belatedly indicated that a survey of traffic the transportation of goods and people w1thm is being carried out in Brisbane. the city of Brisbane is effected as cheaply Mr. Evans: It is up to the Brisbane City and expeditiously as possible. If money has Council, although we initiated it. to be spent to bring this about, the Govern­ ment should see that it is spent in the interests Mr. LLOYD: Don't pass the responsi­ not only of Brisbane but of the whole State. bility onto the Brisbane City Council. Mr. MELLOY (Nudgee) (4.38 p.m.): I Mr. Evans: It is their job. Footpaths are wish to add a few comments on the matter not controlled by the Main Roads Depart­ raised by our Leader concerning the grant­ ment. ing of a subsidy to Hollands to operate the shipping service from Cairns to Thursday Mr. LLOYD: The matter is sufficiently Island. The switch-over from Burkes to important to warrant further consideration Hollands will make a considerable difference by the Minister. I believe that the rights to Thursday Island and to some of the larger of individual owners of these properties, Gulf ports. On Thursday Island, employ­ whether they are shops or residences, should ment particularly will be affected. On our be given greater consideration than they recent visit we were told that Hollands would have been given by the Traffic Commission, be loading and unloading with their own and I hope that the Traffic Commission will crew not with wharf labour engaged at give further consideration to the question. Thu;sday Island or Cairns. I understand There are other methods of overcoming these that wharf labourers are not engaged at problems. The Government has an obliga­ Cairns for the loading of the vessel, but that tion to the whole of the State, not only to it is loaded in a secluded part of the wharf Brisbane, to make more finance available for area by the crew of the "Katoora", with the construction of roads that, to a great the unloading being done the same way at extent, will by-pass the trouble spots. Thursday Island. This means that the wharf­ Mr. Pizzey: You would have to resume a labouring staff at Thursday Island will not be lot of property to have the by-pass road. used in the unloading of the vessel. Supply [25 AUGUST) Supply 91

As hon. members will realise, employment adequate service can be provided for the at Thursday Island is a big problem in any goods to those missions the people there will case, and this loss of employment will inflict wait a long time for their reconstruction. The further hardship on those people. Apart size of the "Katoora" and the other ship, from that, it should be the policy of any which is approximately the same-- Government and any business concern to Mr. Hiley: Smaller in size. ensure that loading and unloading operations are carried out under award conditions and Mr. MELLOY: I doubt if those two ships at award wages. Apparently it will be sea­ will have the capacity to serve Thursday men-members of the ship's crew-who will Island as well as the "Waiben" has in the be doing the loading in Cairns. past and, as pointed out, there is no guar­ The tourist trade to Thursday Island is ante:::, even with the present subsidy, that the another matter of importance. When we new firm will be able to carry on and provide were at Thursday Island we were fortunate the service provided by John Burke Ltd. It to inspect Burke's ship, the "Waiben". We is quite possible that the subsidy will have to were informed that she has a full complement be increased. of passengers on most trips-about 24 in all. Mr. Hiley: Where did you get the idea that Under the new scheme the "Katoora" will the new firm gets a subsidy? not be able to carry the same number. I do not know what provision is made for pas­ Mr. MELLOY: The point I am making sengers on the "Katoora"; I do not think is that they will receive rail freight and there is any. When tourists visit Thursday other concessions, which will enable them Island they spend money theTe. Even though to compete. Thursday Island depends a there are only 24 on each trip, I know that great deal on refrigerated cargo, and I have on each occasion they visit the shops and the been informed that these boats have no hotels, and spend money in the community. refrigerated space. That will be lost to Thursday Island with the I wanted to make those two or three transf·:::r of the shipping rights to Keith points dealing with Hollands, and I ask the Hollands. Apart from the small quantity of Government to consider them fully. The goods that go by air, Thursday Island depends proper development of the Gulf and the on sea transport. I understand that the proper provisioning of Thursday Island and "Katoora" is only 320 tons, compared with the Gulf ports depend on a continuation of 500 tons in the case of the "Waiben". the services given by John Burke Ltd. from Mr. Hiley: The "Waiben" is 1,300 tons. Cairns. Mr. MELLOY: The Minister has supplied Mr. MURRAY (Clayfield) (4.46 p.m.): me with some very important information. Anyone as inexperienced as I in this Chamber could be excused for being curious Mr. Hiley: Would you like the rest of it? about the amount of irrelevance permitted There are two vessels. in a debate such as this, but one learns that it is in fact, by tradition, an open Mr. MELLOY: The capacities of the two ships will not equal the capacity of the debate and members can speak on any "Waiben". subject. Apparently we do not have to address ourselves to the speech made by the Mr. Hiley: That is right, but do you know Treasurer in which he sought an appropria­ the frequency of the servio:::s? tion of money. I thought that that would be the subject of the debate, but evidently Mr. MELLOY: If the ships make the same it is an open debate. number of trips as the "Waiben"-- The various speeches made today have Mr. Hiley: Suppose they make 2t times covered a wide range of subjects, and it the numb:::r of trips? is interesting to conjecture which ones the Mr. MELLOY: They still do not equal the Treasurer will reply to. He might reply to capacity of the "Waiben". the speech of the hon. member for Towns­ ville South, or of the hon. member for The Treasurer has a habit of "patting" Warrego on land tenure, or it could be people down when they say things he does to the speech made about the Gulf shipping not agree with. He sid•e-stepped my remarks services. It will be interesting to see which about passengers. These ships will not carry ones he chooses. any passengers, even if they make three times the number of trips. Thursday Island It might be an appropriate time to look depends on sea transport and unless a ship at this practice of open debate on an Appro­ with the capacity of the "Waiben" is on the priation Bill. Hon. members have only four run Thursday Island will not be properly opportunities between the opening of Parlia­ served. If a large cargo has to be transported ment in August and the second Appropria­ down to the Gulf a great strain will be tion Bill, which is usually introduced about imposed on a ship with the capacity of the November, to address themselves openly on "Katoora". The Edward River and Mitchell subjects of their own choice. The four River missions are to be reconstructed, and opportunities are during the Address-in-Reply one of the problems associated with their debate, the debate on this Appropriation reconstruction is the transport of materials Bill, the Budget debate, and the debate on from Cairns and Townsville. Unless an the second Appropriation Bill. There are 92 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

virtually no other opportunities to speak on If what I suggest were followed, the debate a matter of one's choice unless a Bill relating at this stage may perhaps not, as it seems to that matter is introduced. to now, contain so much that is irrelevant Mr. Aikens: We can ask questions. because of the lack of opportunity for the Leader of the Opposition and other members Mr. MURRAY: The hon. member for to study what is in the Bill. I think that Townsville South and some other members what I suggest is well worth considering. get in an extraordinary amount, but I am I also suggest that the Printing Committee not quick-witted like them, and I do not consider the issuing of a daily "Hansard". have to be to survive in this Chamber. To me, that is tremendously important. It might be considered that we have this What is said today cannot be picked up provision because there are no other tomorrow unless we look at one of these opportunities. monstrosities about 4 ft. long, which I In dealing with this Appropriation Bill, understand are not allowed to be brought one could expect some considered addresses into the Chamber. In any case, there are on the financial matters of the State in very great advantages in having a daily reply to the Treasurer's speech, but it is "Hansard", with the printed speeches put difficult to do this, particularly as we have together in book form. This is done in other the practice, which we will have from now Parliaments; surely we can do it here. Surely on, of a Minister seeking leave to introduce it is not a matter of cost that is worrying a Bill and speaking on its initiation. Then anybody. If cost were allowed to interfere the Leader of the Opposition, or another with the duties, rights, and privileges that leading member of the Opposition, has to members should have in this place, it would rise and speak to that address by the Minister be a very deplorable state of affairs. A without having seen the Bill, and without daily "Hansard" would be of great advantage having had any consultation with the and would allow members to address them­ Minister concerned. The Leader of the selves more intelligently to the subject before Opposition does it well, and I give him full the House, and allow them to give more credit. It must be tremendously difficult to consideration to what was said some days get up and, off the cuff, speak to a Bill earlier. without having any particular warning of I do suggest that these matters could be its contents. One might therefore wonder looked at. I know that the Minister for whether it may be time for this matter to Mines and Main Roads is keen to see the be looked at. introduction of Grievance Days, and I look After the Minister has made his intro­ forward to his taking the necessary steps in ductory speech, the Leader of the Opposition that direction. could then ask that the debate be adjourned. It could then stand adjourned for a couple Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer­ of days to allow him and other hon. mem­ Minister for Transport) (4.54 p.m.): I rise in bers to study what has been said, thus giving this debate only because reference was made members a chance to engage later in more this morning, and also this afternoon, to the intelligent and considered debate. Railway Department being involved in a dis­ cussion that took place relating to the con­ Mr. Hiley: I suggest that you pick a Bill tract that has been let to Keith Hollands other than the Appropriation Bill, otherwise Shipping Co. Pty. Ltd. for the transport you won't get your salary at the end of the of goods by sea to the northern part of week. Queensland. I know that the Treasurer will Mr. MURRAY: I am sure that everyone reply very ably to the statements that have is keen to get his salary and that the Appro­ been made concerning the contract itself. priation Bill will be passed. I want to raise But I believe that I should explain the these couple of points at a time when mem­ position of the Railway Department and bers are free to speak on any subject. Con­ deny the charges that have been made, sideration could also be given to having a firstly, that the Railway Department is sub­ Grievance Day, perhaps once a week or once sidising Hollands's interests, and, secondly, a fortnight. As in other Parliaments, this that the Railway Department is losing a would provide a couple of hours in which volume of revenue because of this particular members would have the opportunity to let contract. off steam. The beginning of this arrangement goes Mr. Evans: You would still have a back to the time when there were port rates grievance. applying between Brisbane and Cairns. Even in the time of my predecessor, who is now Mr. MURRAY: Perhaps I would, and, if the Leader of the Opposition, contract rates my inference from the Minister's interjection were entered into be-tween the Railway is correct, I can assure him that I will always Department and certain Brisbane merchants endeavour to have one where possible. At and also certain merchants and other organi­ least let me say that we would be much sations in North Queensland. better off if we had Grievance Days to allow members to address themselves to subjects Mr. Aikens: But Parliament knew of those of their own choice, quite apart from their rates. rights in an adjournment debate. Mr. CHALK: I will deal with that soon. Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 93

Those contracts were entered into by the after letter relating to that matter. They find Railway Department. There has been a out, first of all, what contract the Railway further development since we have been in Department has made and then they immedi­ Government, in that shipping interests were ately go along to the merchant and say, "We continuing to take certain business away from will carry it for 10s. a ton less." Then the the Railway Department, and we extended merchant goes to the Railway Department that particular basis of contract between a and says, "Look, I can get it from the road manufacturer or a merchant in Brisbane and hauliers for so-and-so." That is exactly what the northern interests. killed the vessel that was going into Rock­ Some time ago, when it became evident hampton. But I do not want to get away that John Burke Ltd. was possibly moving from this particular point. out b:!cause of the activities of Hollands's The point of the matter is also that not interests from Cairns to the Far North, only did he have to pay for this particular Hollands's interests approached the Railway wagon, whether or not he loaded it to the Department and asked whether it would be 20 tons, but he also had to load that wagon, prepared to enter into a contract for the he had to unload it, and he had to accept haulage of goods from Brisbane to Cairns, the responsibility for any loss that occurred. such goods not to be distributed in Cairns He had to accept the insurance. Every but to be distributed in the far northern scrap of business that came to the depart­ portion of the State. ment in that direction was new business. Mr. Duggan: You said, "When it became It did not take away business from the Cairns evident that Burkes were pulling out". What merchants because those goods were going evidence was there to show that? up by ship into the northern portion of Queensland and all that the Railway Depart­ Mr. CHALK: There was clear evidence for ment did was to enter into competition to some time previously that Hollands were get that business. Therefore, we have built taking away quite a lot of business in the up extra business for the department and to north of Queensland. They were running the advantage of the department and, as far services there for a considerable period. as hauling a truck to North Queensland for Discussions also took place about subsidies that particular amount of money is con­ to Burkes. cerned, in the circumstances in which we Mr. Duggan: If Burkes applied for a are doing it it is profitable business to us. renewal of the contract, that did not indicate To the merchants of Cairns who have that they were pulling out. said that this rate is a disadvantage to them, Mr. CHALK: John Burke Ltd. applied for I say that it is not because the business that the contract; so did Keith Hollands Shipping has been won by the department was never Company Pty. Ltd. The Treasurer will tell at any time in their custody. the hon. gentleman the circumstances relating Mr. Aikens: And in any case you told to that. us that they could have the same rate if An approach was made, and the Railway they wanted it. Department made an offer to Hollands to Mr. CHALK: Provided they accept the handle their requirements in truckload lots. The undertaking was that, irrespective of same conditions, they can have that par­ whether the truck was full or not, Hollands ticular rate. would pay for 80 pe·r cent. of its capacity. Reference has been made to going to I am prepared to say here and now, although Julia Creek or Forsayth. I have corres­ I preferred not to make the contract public, pondence here with Hollands in which he that the arrangement was this: it was a 24-ton made that approach. I have also correspon­ wagon. It was to be loaded to at least dence here with Hollands telling him quite 20 tons capacity. If it was not loaded to plainly that we cannot enter into any special 20 tons capacity, Hollands still paid £200 for arrangement with him that would not be the truck. If it was over 20 tons capacity given to any other merchant in North and up to 24 tons, they paid £10 a ton for Queensland. each ton over 20. Mr. Hiley: Or haulier. First of all, it was a contract entered into between the Railway Department and Keith Mr. CHALK: Or haulier from rail. Hollands Shipping Company Pty. Ltd., and Furthermore, that we would not give him a the contract conditions are open to any other greater advantage between Cairns and person who wants to enter into them for Forsayth and Townsville and Julia Creek than the same activities. we would give to any merchant in Cairns or in Townsville. How fairer could we be than Mr. Aikens: That is fair enough, but why that? I only point that out because I feel that didn't you tell us the price in the first place? in this discussion, which has centred around a Mr. CHALK: Because I do not believe shipping contract, the Railway Department that we should disclose such things. The has come in for some condemnation of its position is that today we have many road activities. The department has done all haulier interests who are endeavouring to find within its power to protect the interests of out what contract rates are made by the its employees and its own finances. Railway Department. I can produce letter Mr. Duggan interjected. 94 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. CHALK: There is a letter circulating increase of labour in the field, with no from John Burke, and I have no doubt from more labour in the mills, and with less labour the remarks of the Leader of the Opposition on the wharves. and others in this Chamber that the letter has been made available to other people. There Mr. Walsb: Are you talking values now? is an allegation that we are going to give Mr. HILEY: Tonnage. Values are much Hollands something more than we might give greater because of the rise in prices. someone else. I only want to repeat that the basis of the contract into which we entered Take wheat as another example. The day is a basis that is available to any other was when we harvested the wheat crop of merchant who can provide the same facilities this State with a whole host of people as this particular undertaking. sewing bags, stacking bags, and so on. But we have stopped all that. We have gone into Mr. Duggan: And haulier. mechanical harvesting; we have gone into bulk handling. We have stopped the coolie Mr. CHALK: And haulier from rail; any work which called for a lot of bodies who person at all who wants to enter into it. It is received a low monetary reward. By lifting good business for the Railway Department the production per man, as shown by tests and, whilst it is, I shall not only defend it but which I will demonstrate in much greater I shall extend it if possible. I merely wanted detail when I present the Budget, we have to clarify that point. lifted the living potential standard of the great mass of the Queensland people. Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth­ Treasurer) (5.4 p.m.), in reply: There are Mr. Newton: Most of these things a number of matters that have been raised happened during World War II, as far as on which I should like to say something. It the mechanisation of farms is concerned. will take me close to dinnertime, I suspect, because quite a number of interesting and Mr. HILEY: All I can say is that if the important matters have been raised in the honourable member is trying to tell me that Committee and I do not want to miss any the bulk handling of sugar, wheat, coal and that I can help. mineral sands happened during World War II, his task will be to persuade his wharf­ The first matter about which I want to labouring friends. Their complaint is that say something is the comment of the Leader it has happened substantially since we became of the Opposition in which he drew attention the Government. to the fact that the percentage growth of population in Queensland since we became Mr. Newton: You spoke about people the Government has been below the Austra­ sewing bags by hand. As soon as I interject lian average. That is perfectly true, but I on that point you go completely over to am afraid he missed the real significance bulk loading. because later on, when I bring down the Mr. HILEY: The honourable member Budget, I propose to give some very detailed should talk to people who understand the figures. wheat industry and they will put him right. One of the transcendent changes since we This is a very good illustration of the differ­ became the Government is that production ence between the attitude of this Government is going up far more sharply than popula­ and that of most of our predecessors. We tion, which means greater average earnings believe that, in an emancipated society that per inhabitant. I propose to show that the aims at a higher standard of living, only as rate of savings of the average Queenslander, long as we produce can we collectively hope which used to lag well behind the Australian to consume. A society that produces poorly average, is now above the Australian rate will consume poorly. Consequently, when­ of progression. On such tests as the number ever we find anything that makes a con­ of motor vehicles, new registrations and new tribution towards an increase in the rate of houses built, where once we lagged behind production and the lessening of the cost of the Australian average, we have now come production we believe that in the long run it is beneficial to all the people in the State. up-- It is quite true that during the period of Mr. Duggan: If that is so, why does not the impact of such a change you slow down our population come up? the population growth because vou are using a few skilled and highly productive operators Mr. HILEY: The reason for it is perfectly to replace hundreds of men who were doing clear. We have overcome the folly of purely coolie work. having too many big Queensland industries working on a purely coolie basis. Mr. Dug!!an: Do vou think the Countrv­ Liberal coalition in Queensland are the only Mr. Duggan: That is nonsense. people who are doing this sort of thing in Australia? Mr. HILEY: I thought the honourable gentleman would say that. Let me give him Mr. HILEY: No, but I attach infinitely three illustrations. This year the production greater importance to it than the honourable of sugar will be almost 50 per cent greater gentleman does, because he is far too sensitive than it was the year before we took office to what was said bv that great Labour That will be taken off with only a tiny Leader, Mr. J. B. Chifley, when he openly Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 95

criticised Labour thinking of the time, saying are bound by this contract." The State Elec­ that the Labour Party must learn to rid itself tricity Commissioner, Mr. Neil Smith, looked of the notion that always in the changing of at me with a pretty jaundiced eye and said, a developing society a man should count on "You are forcing me to charge Thursday having the same job under the shade of the Island consumers more for their electricity same tree. because you deny us the right to have this cheaper freight service." We said, "The Mr. Duggan: If you ever do as good a job Government is bound by this contract and for Queensland as Chifiey did for Australia while it remains bound it will honour it." you will be able to get up anywhere and Finally we said, "The time has come to have be proud of it. another look at it and test the market by Mr. HILEY: That may be the case. I have open-competition tendering to discover a very great respect for the late hon. gentle­ whether a cheaper service can be provided man. I only wish that his views on many at less cost to the consumer in the area and matters were shared by the Australian Labour to the Government." That is precisely what Party today. we did. Mr. Duggan: They are. At this stage I correct what the hon. member for Tablelands said. I am sure he Mr. HILEY: I come now to this question did not mean to quote Clause 3 of the of John Burke's case. The Government is specification incorrectly although he appeared concerned with the Cape York Peninsula to be reading it. He said that the specification and it looked back over its history of more read, ''The contractor shall be required to than 100 years. It has not gone ahead. provide a vessel of 400 tons capacity." His One of the main things holding it back has complaint was that we had departed from been a too-infrequent and a too-dear service. that requirement because the vessel was only Our predecessors in office recognised that 315 tons. and they tried to prop up the deficiencies This is the wording of the specification on of the freight service with subsidies. They which tenders were invited- made a contract which by its very nature, when one examines it on a long-term basis, "The contractor shall be required to abandoned all hope because it was virtually provide a ,~team or motor vessel, or a cost-plus contract. It said that the con­ vessels ... tractor made a profit on the service. The It has not to be one vessel; it can be more Government said, "You will get a guaranteed than one vessel; a fleet of them if he liked. dividend." He became unconscious of rela­ Then it continued- tive costs. They were to be covered in any case and he would make a profit on them. " ... with a combined cargo-carrying capacity of not less than 450 tons ..."- It was virtually an eternal repetition of the old cost-plus that we accepted temporarily not 400 tons, as the hon. member said. during the war because we had to, but which Then it continued- wise men today regard as not something to " ... portion of which capacity shall be write into the permanent conduct of the refrigerated space." nation. Later there are some further provisions about We were loyal to the contract while its refrigerated space which I will mention. That term persisted. We found that Keith was the actual specification on which the Hollands's service was coming to us without tenders were called. any subsidy at all and the Government was told, "You want to cart fuel to the aerodrome I shall read what the tenders were and hon. members will be able to judge the at Horn Island and to the power station at extent to which the Government honoured Thursday Island. We will carry that fuel its specifications. Two tenders were received. there for you without subsidy although the The first was from John Burke Ltd. who other people want to charge you subsidy." offered the "Waiben", a vessel of 1,300 tons Mr. Adair: To Cooktown also; it got a capacity and some passenger space. Keith service. Hollands offered two vessels running in con­ junction, the "Katoora", of 315 tons dead Mr. HILEY: That is so. weight, and the "Malooka", of 120 tons dead weight, a total of 435 tons. I confess it We said, "We cannot accept that offer. was 15 tons short of the specification require­ We are under contract to Burkes, and while ment, but I hope nobody will accuse the we are they will get all the Government business." It reached the stage when the Government of hokey-pokey because of that. Thursday Island powerhouse, which is not John Burke offered a service every four a big undertaking, and the consumers on weeks from Brisbane to Thursday Island. We Thursday Island had to bear heavier freight kept saying that we were not interested in costs on fuel. We could have saved between a service from Brisbane, that we wanted to £1,500 and £2,000 a year on fuel into the develop a service originating in Cairns so power station at Thursday Island had we as to give some of the Cairns people a departed from our contract and accepted the chance. They had told us that they could other offer. However, we said, "No, we not get shipping space because it was all 96 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply taken up by the Brisbane merchants, so (b) Observe all the requirements and our invitation was for a service based in provisions of 'The Navigation Acts, Cairns. 1912 to 1958' of the Commonwealth of Keith Hollands offered to provide at least Australia, 'The Navigation Acts, 1876 two services a month from Cairns to Marina to 1939', 'The Harbours Acts, 1955 to Plains, Portland Roads, Thursday Island, and 1962' and 'The Queensland Marine Red Island Point, plus two services a week to Acts, 1958 to 1963' of the said State Cooktown. The "Waiben" could not go into or any Act or Acts amending or in those points because she is too deep. So far substitution therefor and all Orders in as the east coast of the Cape is concerned, Council, Ordinances, By-laws and Regu­ there is a service with at least double the lations made under the said Acts or frequency, calling at infinitely more places. any of them, so far as the same are The "Waiben" has 2,400 cubic feet of applicable to the service or to the said freezer and cooler space combined. The vessel. present installed freezer space of the (c) Observe all laws of the Common­ "Katoora" and the "Malooka" combined is wealth and State including any industrial 502 cubic feet, but there is an undertaking, awards for the time being in force which Hollands will be called upon to carry· relating to the engagement and employ­ out, that another 650 cubic feet of refrigerated ment of labour engaged in or in relation space, which is contracted to be effected on to such service." two weeks' notice, will be put in. The company has an obligation in that The rate quoted by John Burke from respect. It must obey whatever the industrial Brisbane to Thursday Island was £14 5s. 6d. law demands. If it requires that the company a ton. Holland's freight rate to Thursday Island, using the co-ordinated rail-steamer shall obtain labour from a certain source, service, was £14 a ton, a negligible saving or that employees shall be members of a of 5s. 6d. a ton. The significant difference certain union, the contract clearly obligates is this: from Cairns to Thursday Island it to ensure that that is done. by Burke is £10 18s. a ton, whereas from Mr. Duggan: Tell me what union the Cairns to Thursday Island by Hollands it members of Hollands's staff belong to. is £7 5s. a ton, a saving of £3 13s. a ton. The refrigerated cargo rate by Burke was Mr. HILEY: I do not know. 3-!d. a lb., and for Hollands 3d. a lb. Mr. Duggan: I can tell you. They are As to subsidy-and this was not a governing not members of any union. factor in the Government's view-Burke required a subsidy of £30,000 a year. Mr. HILEY: If the law requires them Hollands asked for no subsidy. to be members of any union, they are On those facts alone, I should say that obligated to join it. any Government charged with the spending Mr. Duggan: They are obligated to join of public money that decided, after calling nothing? public tenders, to give the contract to Burke, should be arraigned before a royal com­ Mr. HILEY: Not if the law does not mission for doing something dishonest and require it. If the law does require it, they improper. I have no hesitation in asserting must join the union. that, on the position that came about from Mr. Hanson: The size of these vessels the calling of public tenders, the Government would obviate any necessity to employ had no choice but to give the contract to Keith Hollands Shipping Co. Pty. Ltd. and waterside-worker labour. not to John Burke Ltd. Mr. HILEY: I have not found anywhere, Mr. Duggan: Do you say that their rates in pronouncements of law or of the Indus­ were cheaper? trial Commission, anything which excuses owners of vessels under a certain capacity Mr. HILEY: In the case of rates from from employing this type of labour, and Cairns to Thursday Island, the decrease is states that it must be employed on ships very substantial. It is negligible in rates above a certain size. from Brisbane to Thursday Island, but sub­ stantial from Cairns to Thursday Island. Mr. Hansom I have seen it done on the waterfront. Much has been said concerning union labour. Let me review what the specification Mr. HILEY: In order to ensure that the stated. This is the contract which has in new contractor was under sanction in this fact been signed. Clause 9, which deals matter, the Government demanded as a with observance of laws, reads- condition of the contract that Keith Hollands "The Contractor shall at all times during Shipping Co. Pty. Ltd. provide an uncon­ the continuance of the Contract observe ditional guarantee from the A.N.Z. Bank and comply with all laws for the time of £20,000 for due performance of the being in force with respect to the operation contract. Not only have we obligated them; of its vessel or vessels from time to time we have made them put in through the engaged in the carrying on of the service. A.N.Z. Bank a cash bond of £20,000 which In particular and without limiting the will be forfeited if there is failure to foregoing the Contractor shall . . . observe the contract. Supply [25 AUGUST] Supply 97

Something was said concerning surveys. country, under which Parliament makes the Clearly, only a fool would suggest that the law, the administration administers the law, "Katoora" and "Malooka" are better vessels and the courts interpret the law. The day than the "Waiben". I want to say, however, that Parliament, which makes the law, steps that a complete survey was made of both out of its traditional role and sets out to vessels for the Marine Board of Queens­ interpret the law and pushes the courts out land by one of our nautical surveyors. The of their proper role, heaven save Queensland. report was satisfactory. It is true that they Any interested party can apply to the courts, have no Lloyd's survey, but that is not and I say to the hon. member for Townsville required of coasters operating on the coast South that if the matter is as he says, the of Queensland. They have been certified courts are the proper place to obtain a by the Marine Board, and those who have remedy, not Parliament. had any experience with it will know that He restated it in another way. He said its members are under no ministerial that the bank in question is operating under direction at all, and cannot be. They are an a charter granted by the Government, and independent body. The only public servant he wants that charter suspended or revoked on the Marine Board is the portmaster for until this matter is cleaned up. I should like the time being. Representatives of shipping him to tell the Committee just what the companies are on it, as is also Mr. George charter is to which he refers. There is no Ling, who is a union representative. They law of this State dealing with banking, for are the people who certify vessels, such as the very simple reason that since the Com­ the "Roylen", which ply on the coast of monwealth Constitution was approved in Queensland. Personally, I have not found 1901 the laws Delating to banking, currency, anything to interfere in any way with my and exchange, have been the exclusive pro­ respect for safety conditions laid down by vince of the Commonwealth Government. It the Marine Board of Queensland and its is true that up till 1900 banks could function officers. in Queensland only under a State charter. When I come to deal with the remarks of However, although I have often found the the hon. member for Tablelands I may have hon. member rather old-fashioned in his out­ something further to say about the Gulf; but, look he has never before attempred to take in order to take the comments in their correct us b~ck more than 60 years and tried to turn order, I shall pass on now to the remarks the clock back to that extent. I repeat: there of the hon. member for Townsville South. is no charter issued by this Government or this Parliament giving anyone the right to He brought to the attention of the Com­ carry on banking in Queensland. If the hon. mittee two instances in which wills had been member wishes to see the matter ventilated, drawn in favour of a beneficiary whom he he should see that it is ventilated in the named, and he contended that there had been Federal Parliament. an abuse of the office of that person in the service of a banking institution in Queensland. The question of the Wool Board and a He thought that this Parliament should take guaranteed price for wool is quite important. cognisance of it and that something should However, all I say to the hon. member for be done about it. Warrego is that this, again, is a matter for the Federal Parliament, and I cannot see any Let me state the· position quite clearly in advantage in taking up the time of this Com­ this respect. The law provides three mittee by making unavailing, although inter­ remedies, all of which can be taken before esting, comments on it. a court, which is the proper body for evaluat­ The hon. member for Merthyr raised the ing these matters, if there are difficulties question of a tunnel under the Brisbane under a will. If a will has been drawn under River. I think the statement that I made duress, that is one instance in which it can earlier indicates something that I am sure be attacked. If it is alleged that undue will be welcomed by him-that the Govern­ influence has been brought to bear on the ment is prepared, and indeed quite ready, to testator, again a will can be attacked on that examine sympathetically any proposal that is · ground. Then, if the dependants claim that brought to it for the construction of such they have been overlooked in the will and a tunnel. We have accepted that it is an there is inadequate provision for their main­ engineering feasibility. There is no question tenance, applications may be made to the about that. We have some doubts about the court under the Testator's Family Mainten­ economics of it, but those doubts are far ance Act. There remains, of course, this better resolved by people who are knowledge­ final and overall remedy: if the testator is able and credit-worthy in this direction. felt to have lacked testamentary capacity to What I have tried to do today is to issue the point wher.e he does not really know an open invitation to anybody in ~r out of what he is doing, the will can be taken before Australia who knows the tunnel busmess and the court and the court can upset it. who is prepared to come and have a look at I do not know what happened in these it. If anyone feels he has a proposal to put cases, but heaven pr-eserve us from the day up to the Government, let him do that by when this Parliament sets out to take the all means. place of the court in determining whether or The figures presented by the hon. member not a will is valid. Fortunately, we have for Merthyr today pretty well confirm our a tripartite systJem of government in this estimates. He took the American cost of -4 98 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

£11,700,000 and adjusted it to our cost of position time-wise and cost-wise to use the £9,300,000. Our estimate was £8,000,000- tunnel. That can only be determined by an odd, a little less than his, but that was taken origin-and-destination survey. out three years ago. Our estimate was for I might say· that the Traffic Eng~neer ~id a two-lane tunnel with a width of 24 feet some limited assessment of that. His findmg and an effective clearance of 14 feet. There was a figure so low that frankly I would are some problems associated with a two­ not repeat it to the Committee because it lane tunnel, in that a traffic block is a stop­ would frighten everyone. I personally do page until it is cleared. With a three or not accept it. I do not think the figure of four-lane tunnel it is possible to go around users could be as low as the Traffic Engineer an obstruction. A two-lane tunnel presents indicated. It is only by an origin-and­ a difficult problem as an important traffic destination survey that one could possibly artery. All I can say is that I would be arrive at the likely figures. delighted if the hon. member could show any people interested that two or three users Let us be clear about this. The Govern­ were prepared to put 7,000 vehicles a day ment is convinced that engineering-wise it is through a cross-river tunnel. If that could all right. In turn, let me say that if by be shown, I think the problem would be some happy chance we can get the tunnel solved. But if he is relying on petrol we will be delighted. We will have obtained traffic-- a very fine thing for the city and for its future development in the down-port areas. Mr. Walsh: Tell him how to do it if I have indicated the basis upon which we you want it shown. are open to receive proposals from any people comp~tent in this field, with some ?f Mr. HILEY: He may feel that he can do their own capital to go with it. I have said it and would be prepared to do it, but it is we hope that there will be a strong element far above our estimation of the users. If of local participation, but for the reasons I he could show and convince any interested have set out I do not want to see a show party that there is traffic of that body, I that is total local participation. believe it would not be long before we might Mr. Ramsden: It is apparent that somebody see a tunnel project actually developed. has to do a feasibility test on the proper But if he is reckoning on petrol traffic I basis before any company could consider think he should be warned that there is no whether or not it would be prepared to sink tunnel authority anywhere in the world that £11,000,000 into the project. will allow petrol tankers to go through a tunnel at any hour of the day. That is Mr. HILEY: My own belief is that a because of the hazard, and the standard company that would be interested in such a practice in relation to tunnel procedure is proposal would have sufficient instinct _in for petrol carriers to be restricted to a few these matters to sense where the opportumty hours during off-peak. In fact, in many lies and it would be into it in a flash. I have broadly indicated our attitude. I hope cases they are restricted to the hours from somebody will be prepared to come along and 2 a.m. to 5 a.m. If there was a concentration talk seriously to the Government. of petrol traffic constantly using a tunnel with the resultant fumes accumulating and The hon. member for Townsville North they were set off, an explosion might occur raised the subject of the cutting down of the that would seriously endanger not only the loan allocation to the Townsville City Council. traffic using the tunnel, but the tunnel as I am glad that he raised it. Although I well. was not prepared for it I have dug the. infor­ mation up. It was clear to us that with the Mr. Walsh: Do you think the present-day development in this State, with new bt~rdens traffic survey could give a clue as to the showing up in places like Gladstone, Bnsbane traffic that might pass through? and Weipa, we would be pushing with every penny loan allocation we had to keep pace Mr. HILEY: No, I do not. It would be with this crushing need for development. .I necessary to conduct an authoritative origin­ caused an examination to be made and It and-destination survey. Put it this way: was found that at 30 April last nine councils supposing you were at Arnpol and wanted had cash balances totalling £3,900,000. to go to Queensland Brewery on the southern Townsville's portion of this figure at 30 April side of Story Bridge. You could go through was £1,196,000. the tunnel and along the north side of the river or you could go down the south side Mr. Aikens: Did they give you any reason of the river and across Story Bridge. If why they did not spend the money? there is a toll on the tunnel you will not pay the toll willingly, unless you want to Mr. HILEY: We wrote to the councils, see some scenery, to pass through the tunnel drawing their attention to the balances. This to Queensland Brewery, but if you are going was no bolt out of the blue. We wrote to to Amoco from Arnpol there would be a them and warned them that unspent cash crushing reason why you should use the balances would be taken into account when tunnel, or if you were going to Sandgate or fixing the next year's loan programme. Nudgee or any other place where the distance Mr. Tucker: With all due respect to you, involved was sufficient to make it a fair pro- that was never made public. Supply (25 AUGUST] Supply 99

Mr. HILEY: It may not have been, but Mr. HILEY: It is the hope of the Minister we wrote to the councils. that an answer will be found. From what Mr. Walsh: You would allow them a the hon. member said this afternoon, any reasonable carry-over? Government would find difficulty in justifying leaving Palm Island as it is; it is not fair Mr. HILEY: A reasonable carry-over. to the people. The hon. member mentioned that in one year four children died. That The position of the Townsville City Council could recur again and again. A medical was that their actual expenditure in 1963-1964 answer must be found, or a physical answer was the highest for the last three years. In provided. 1961-1962 they spent £579,000 loans and subsidies, in 1962-1963 £842,000 loans and The hon. member for Bundaberg spoke subsidies, and in 1963-1964 £910,000 loans about fishermen. I can only say that there and subsidies. That was their best perform­ has been some confusion. The Minister for ance to date, and a bit better after we put Labour and Industry and I took action dur­ the spur on and hurried them along. In new ing the last couple of months to try to money and carry-over they have £1,305,271, scotch it. If we have not done so we will which is 17 months' supply on last year's rate see to it that we do. Firstly, the Pro­ of spending. They will be flat to the boards fessional Fishermen's League, which, I to spend it, and I am prepared to wager believe, is a formally registered trade union, the hon. member now that they will not spend approached me years ago and we took some it. action. Hon. members will recall that they Townsville was not alone. We jumped on objected to the idea that I, or any other every one of the local authorities with high amateur fisherman, should have the right to cash carry-overs. I remember saying to the use the same gauge, and the same length of Premier, "If we go down and ask the Loan net, as they could, and then sell fish on Council for more money and they trot out the market in competition with men who this list of underspent balances-they know devote capital, and their daily lives, to being those operating the short-term money market professional fishermen. This matter has been -we will be sunk before we start. The discussed and presented again and again. We Loan Council will say, 'What do you want put a limit on the length of the net for more money for? You have your local amateur fishermen and we charged them a authorities up there with millions of pounds yearly fee and forbade their selling fish. unspent. Why don't they use it? Th·ey don't There must be some confusion of amateur want it.' " net-fishermen with amateur line-fishermen. Mr. Aikens: Do you know that the Towns­ Because the amateur net-fisherman is pre­ ville City Council has publicly stated that vented from selling fish, it seems that some you are starving it for money. people believe that this applies also to the amateur line-fisherman. The Minister for Mr. HILEY: That may be. I again repeat Labour and Industry and I have made it clear that I am getting case-hardened to the barbs to the Fish Board, and I have tried to make and probes of politics; sooner or later the it clear to my department, that that is not so. facts come through. There is no restriction on the amateur line­ fishermen. Let us be clear about it. I do Mr. Walsh: Your hide is getting tougher a lot of fishing and about four times a year every year. I succeed in getting those fantastic days when Mr. HILEY: That is right. It will be I have fish by the truckload. That is only nearly as hard as the hon. member's by the probably because I do a lot of fishing and time I am finished. I am luckier than most in the sites I choose. The amateur fisherman is lucky if he does I must confess that I do not know the it once a year. It so happens that I do not position about Palm Island. I listened with sell the fish; I give them away. However, it interest to the reply of the Minister for seems to me that if I choose to sell them Health the other day. Listening to the hon. it is far better that I should sell them member this afternoon, it seemed to me that through the official market than sneak them unless an answer can be found to the amoebic onto the black market. The Minister for dysentery on Palm Island it may be necessary Labour and Industry and I have made it to remove the people from occupation for a clear that the Fish Board is bound, as its while. I gather from the hon. member's statutory duty, to take fish from anyone. remarks that he now thinks it has become Take this as an instance: you are out impregnated in the soil and re-infection of fishing and you think you are going to catch the people living on the infected soil is tak­ a number of medium-size reef fish, and some­ ing place. It may be that the people will body gets a 250-lb. cod, or something of the have to be taken out of the area to give sort. It is too big for the average family, it a chance ~o recover and to give the people or the average person. What is the sensible an opportumty to get away from the constant thing to do? It can be put in the boot of risk of re-infection. a car, and later rolled into the Fish Board. Mr. Tucker: Dr. Sandars may have the Mr. Aikens: And it is cut up and sold as answer. schnapper. 100 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Ways and Means

Mr. Hn,EY: Maybe it is. We have made dip into our pockets to do it. Our present it clear that there should not be any require­ attitude is that Mornington Island can be ment for the amateur fisherman to take out served by a launch out of Burketown. The a licence, or anything of the sort. road freighters will carry the goods from Mr. Walsh: I wish your department would Julia Creek to Burketown at regular intervals interpret it like that. and a launch can go across to Mornington Island. Only 300 tons a year has to be Mr. HILEY: There has been corres­ transported, an average of six tons a week. pondence between the hon. member for We think that a small launch can carry out Bundaberg and me, and we have straightened that service adequately. We will ensure one matter out. If he forwards particulars that Mornington Island freights are not dearer of any others, I shall endeavour to rectify than they are at present, and that the them. frequency of the service will infinitely improve. I think that answers all the questions The hon. member for Bundaberg raised the that have been raised in relation to the Gulf. question of the Bundaberg railway station. The Minister for Transport is in broad agree­ I should indicate that all guarantees ment with the answer that has been outlined. required by the Government have now been He believes that there must be a removal furnished in the proper form to the satisfaction of this periodic blockage of the main traffic of the Crown Law Office. The contract was artery of Bundaberg. That is a matter for drafted by the Crown Law authorities and him to overcome. has been signed. The services are to com­ mence operating in the closing weeks of this Mr. Walsh: I have taken it up with the year, when the contract with Burke runs out. Commissioner since I have spoken to you. The hon. member for Kedron spoke of Mr. HILEY: I suggest the hon. member the Traffic Commission and felt that its keeps at him. The matter rests with him, and scope was too limited. He has confirmation it will be put on his programme and arranged of that, because, as the Minister for Mines by him as his allocation allows. and Main Roads told hon. members only last week, the Government is sponsoring the The hon. member for Tablelands raised study by Wilbur Smith & Associates of the the question of shipping services. This has road system of Brisbane, and all its related been partly answered by implication in some services and needs. The cost of that study of the statements made by the Minister for will be £120,000, of which the Minister's Transport, but I think a more forthright state­ department will be contributing 80 per cent. ment should be made. First of all, Burke I think that is sufficient to demonstrate that serves three main places in the Gulf­ the Government is cognisant of the road Normanton, Burketown, and Mornington problems of Brisbane, and is not giving Island. A study of the geographic pattern of merely lip service to solving them. A subsidy the Gulf shows that there is no way goods of 80 per cent. is a very good one indeed. will continue to move four times a year from Normanton and Burketown around the tip of The hon. member for Kedron also Cape York at a very high freight rate, when advocated decreasing the present speed limit. they can be moved in two or three times a I have the fear, which I know is shared by week, except during the wet season, straight others, that this could limit the capacity of across from Cairns to Mount Surprise and our roads. One important feature in traffic across from Mount Surprise, or from Towns­ engineering is the necessity to keep traffic ville to Julia Creek and across from Julia moving. One-way streets and synchronised Creek. Mr. Chalk's attitude, and I am right traffic lights are two examples of means to behind him, is that there will be no monopoly achieve this. Anything that slows traffic of land transport to those points. reduces the capacity of the roads, and the fundamental problem with Coronation Drive Mr. Walsh: There will be more than one is that its capacity has become over-loaded. franchise? I think that deals with all the matters of Mr. HILEY: Exactly. All carriers or which I took notes as the debate proceeded, merchants who want to run a service to and I now submit the motion. Normanton, Mornington Island and Burke­ Motion (Mr. Hiley) agreed to. town will have equal facilities for that pur­ Resolution reported, received, and agreed pose. We are not prepared to help build to. any transport empire there as a monopoly. The hon. member for Tablelands mentioned only Hollands, but I can assure him that if WAYS AND MEANS half-a-dozen carriers compete for those COMMITTEE services we will be delighted. VoTE OF CREDIT, £68,000,000 Mr. Wallis-Smith: What if they do not like to compete? (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair.) Mr. Hll.,EY: We think they will. We will Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth­ make sure that they do. Treasurer) : I move- The Government is conscious that a gap "(a) That, towards making good the has to be filled in the case of Mornington Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, Island, even if it means that we have to for the service of the year 1964-65, a Appropriation Bill No. 1 [25 AUGUST] Appropriation Bill No. 1 101

further sum not exceeding £28,000,000 be Mr. Mullan looked with approbation on the granted out of the Consolidated Revenue contribution of the then young member Fund of Queensland exclusive of the from Toowoomba, that they wagged their moneys standing to the credit of the Loan heads and, looking sagely, said, "He is not Account Fund. too bad but you should have heard me "(b) That, towards making good the when I was his age." Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, I feel that that sort of thing is perhaps for the service of the year 1964-65, a applicable today because when the Treasurer further sum not exceeding £28,000,000 be gets up to reply the back-benchers think, granted from the Trust and Special Funds. "All our problems are resolved. Here we "(c) That, towards making good the have an outstanding debater able to debunk Supply granted to Her Majesty, on account, the arguments put forward by the Opposi­ for the service of the year 1964-65, a tion." I want the Treasurer to know that I further sum not exceeding £12,000,000 always regard him as a more than worthy be granted from the moneys standing to opponent in debate and anything I say I the credit of the Loan Fund Account." know he will not take as personally offensive. However, this aptitude for using :figures in Motion agreed to. trying to rubbish the case put forward by Resolutions reported, received, and agreed the Opposition calls for a considered reply to. and that is the reason I am exercising my rights on this occasion. APPROPRIATION BILL No. 1 I referred to the shipping service which it FIRsT READING is proposed shall operate later in the year to Thursday Island as being of grave impor­ A Bill founded on the Resolutions was tance to the State and as affecting the introduced, and read a first time. economy of the State and the people in the area. Whilst I accept that the Government, SECOND READING as a responsible Government, is entitled to Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth­ accept full responsibility for policy decisions Treasurer) (5.59 p.m.): I move- in these matters, at the same time I think we "That the Bill be now read a second have a case to state here and I think we time." stated it temperately. In reply, the Treasurer [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] says that we are guilty of perhaps back­ ward thinking, that we are not moving with Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West- the times, that we have no modern ideas Leader of the Opposition) (7.15 p.m.): and that we are still back in the horse-and­ Whilst I regret any personal inconvenience buggy age and do not seem to appreciate that might be occasioned hon. members who the magical transformation that has taken may have had some commitment this even­ place in the State since the present Govern­ ing on the assumption that we would finish ment came to power. discussion on the Appropriation Bill at 6 I pointed out, I think with some validity, o'clock, in view of the magnitude of the that apart from any natural increase in popu­ sum involved, namely, £68,000,000, I make lation that takes place, there are certain no apology for exercising as Leader of the features in the economy of any country that Opposition, on behalf of my party, the right attract people to it. to add some supplementary remarks to those I have already made in reply to some com­ As far as migrants to Australia are con­ ments by the Treasurer. cerned, there are several motivating factors that cause people to come to this country. No-one can deny that the Treasurer is There are some who have been through able to state a case lucidly and cogently and, experiences when their countries have been that, because of his training and experience, torn by racial dissension, ravished by wars he has an aptitude in the use of figures. or, because of the instability of the regime Because of that, I feel that occasionally some or because of restrictions placed upon the members on the Government side of the freedom of the subject, feel they would like House have the feeling that all their financial to migrate to some other country. They l?Ok problems are resolved once they are placed around the world to see where they might in the hands of the Treasurer. I can look be welcome. They look especially at the back rather nostalgically to my maiden speech labour conditions and consider whether the in this House many years ago when Mr. climate would be agreeable to them, whether Clem Lack, now Public Relations Officer in the political regime is stable and whether the Premier's Department, wrote the gallery there is a system of democratic government notes. He had some gracious things to say and a high level of employment. Those are about the speech I made on that occasion, the factors which very often influence people and also some rather ungracious ones. He to come to this country. said my speech was a cross between a com­ pany prospectus and a president's address Many natural-born Australians have their at an economists' convention. He also said roots in particular localities. Having been that I had entered the fray with all the born in some part of the Commonwealth they confidence of a matinee idol and older mem­ perhaps find it a congenial place to seek bers of the Cabinet like Mr. Stopford and employment. Unless they are the more 102 Appropriation Bill No. 1 [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill No. 1

adventurous types who will accept transfer that. It was not that he believes in the or engage in some other calling, many remain political philosphy of the Castro regime-! in the areas where they are born. The say that quite frankly-but merely because Treasurer has spoken about the hustle and the disruption to sugar production in Cuba bustle of politics and the thrust and parry wa:s responsible for an opportunity for of debate. We all know of the heat that expanded production of sugar in this c<;mntry, can be engendered in a debate and the with a dramatic increase in the pnce of claims that are made from time to time. sugar. I have not got the figures here but The Government would say that this State I think in round figures our sugar was worth has had accelerated development purely be­ a little over £80,000,000 last year as com­ cause of the actions undertaken by it pared with £45,000,000 only three or four during its term of office. I know it is easy years ago. for anyone to arrive at certain conclusions I do not think this Government is respon­ based on statistics. I suppose that statistics sible either for the overthrow by Castro of can prove anything, and we all make the best the previous regime or for the maintenance use of figures to support our case. At the of the Castro regime. I am merely pointing same time, I have spent many hours trying out that all of these things have occurred to establish a point by going through statistics, because of circumstances beyond the Govern­ only to find that the figures are against me ment's control. Indeed, in every country in and I have had to abandon that line of the world today production increases have argument. No doubt that happens quite taken place. frequently. But, summed up, if conditions are so good, if the incentives to industry are I have an index taken from the Monthly so much greater than they have been, if Review of Business Statistics for August we have so many natural advantages, which 1964 which is the latest issue available. In I acknowledge, and if we have an equable the ~elevant tables, every country in the climate, a fair test is to see whether there world has a very great increase in production has been this attraction of people to the State figures. I will not weary hon. members wi!h which is now on the threshold of great them. I will just show that the pattern m development. Queensland is world-wide. The industrial production index, including mining, manufac­ I have pointed out that there has been a turing, electricity and manufactured gas, decline in our proportion of the total Aust­ excluding construction, taking 1958 as a base ralian population every year since this of 100, shows that in 1963 Belgium increased Government took office. I pointed out that to 130, a 30 per cent. increase on 1958; with one exception, from 1950 until we left Canada rose to 127, France to 129, West office there had been an increase in the Germany to 136, Italy to 170, Japan a fan­ Queensland proportion of the Australian tastic increase to 221, Norway to 138, Sweden population. I do not get upset because the to 125, the United Kingdom to 119, the Treasurer attempts to refute that argument lowest of the lot, and the United States to as he is obliged to do. I think that is ~ 133. Those production indices show very fair enough test to apply because when the clearly that this pattern is not peculiar to Premier went to the recent Loan Council Queensland. meeting he :said, "We have approximately 15 per cent of the total population but we In the same way, there has been an ~ncrease on the national scale. Every State m Aus­ are getting only 12 per cent of the loan tralia shows a comparable increase. As I allocation." He thought it should roughly said during the Address-in-Reply debate, the equate the 15 per cent. In other words, if figures produced in Canberra show that the we have a greater population here we :should increased prices in Australia have been due get a greater taxation reimbursement, and largely to the beneficial seasons in the Com­ a greater share of the available money should monwealth. When I made that statement the be allotted to the Government for the dis­ hon. member for Gregory took me to task charge of its many responsibilities. But and said I did not know my homework; that the Treasurer gets up and 'Says, "You have certain parts of the State are drought-ridden. no proper conception of things. Today we I know and everybody knows, that in the are streamlined to the modern age. We have Centrar'West and parts of the Far West of bulk-handling facilities. No longer do we the State, and in other parts of the Com­ have the pick and shovel. Sugar production monwealth, there are dry pockets. has grown dramatically. There has been a 50 per cent increase both in volume and Mr. Wbarton interjected. value." Mr. DUGGAN: The hon. member should Only last year we remember that when not worry: From what I read in my report, dealing with the sugar industry the Premier he has done pretty well out of the Irrigation said, "Long live Castro!" Imagine my making and Water Supply Department. If ~e thinks ~ declaration like that! If I said, ••Long he is more competent to handle this matter live Castro!" they would say, "Duggan is than the Treasurer, he is the only one who in cohorts with the political philosophy of does. Castro. He is tagged onto the Reds. That As I pointed out, the F~deral Treasurer is why he and his party should be voted said that increased metal pnces were caus~ against. He is tagged as a fellow-traveller by circumstances beyond the control of this of the Castro regime." But the Premier said Government. No-one can deny the Mount Appropriation Bill No. 1 [25 AUGUST] Appropriation Bill No. 1 103

Isa programme. Despite the fact that there conditions of the people which the Treasurer has been an expenditure of £50,000,000 in talked about. No doubt he will bring forward recent years, no-one can deny that the com­ the number of savings bank deposits, and pany was prepared to go ahead before we talk about wages and other conditions went out of office, and had planned and sub­ in which there has been a dramatic mitted proposals to get on with the projected improvement. expenditure. The company management did not say, "We are not prepared to inject I quote from the August, 1964, Monthly £50,000,000 and more into Mount Isa Review of Business Statistics, issued by the because a socialist Labour Government is in Commonwealth Bureau of Census and office." I could understand the Treasurer's Statistics, Volume 321. The average weekly remarks if he could honestly say, "This com­ earnings per male employee, expressed in pany was not prepared to spend money on decimal figures, read- increasing production at Mount Isa when the June, Opposition was in power." The management 1957 1963 Increase was prepared to spend the money and said, New South Wales £19·95 £25·17 £5·22 Victoria £19·81 £25·05 £5·23 "These are our proposals. This is what we Queensland . . . . £17·42 £22·18 £4·76 want in the way of increased rail facilities, South Australia .. £18·34 line capacity, and so on." Western Australia £17·51 What has happened has had nothing at The Queensland increase is below that for all to do with this Government. It is not the other two States, during a period when responsible for the maintenance of inter­ there has been a dramatic increase. The national price levels for any of the com­ average increase of all Australian States modities that we sell overseas. It was rather during the period 1957 to 1963 was £5 ·01 fortuitous that, be'Cause of drought condi­ per employee. The increase in Queensland tions in China and Russia, we were able to was £4 · 7 6, so we are below the Australian sell large quantities of our wheat and other average. grain crops to our advantage, and a fall in The Treasurer will no doubt say that the level of international wool stocks through­ when Labour was in power there was a out the world caused wool prices to increase. lower rate than in the other States. That I admit that it is the Treasurer's responsi­ is right. In 1957, the average of £17·42 bility, if he elects to exercise it, to say, "There are many of these increases and, in contra­ was £2·53 lower than the average wage distinction to you as the Labour Government, paid in New South Wales. But under this we have increased the standard of living and Government, in the intervening period, have shown that we are conscious of our Queensland has fallen to £2·99 below New responsibilities and are not living in the South Wales, so there has been a regression. 'horse-and-buggy age." I suppose he will get Mr. Koox: What were the respective cost­ the officers of his department to prepare a of-living figures in the two States? document showing the number of push-bikes that were outside the Toowoomba Foundry Mr. DUGGAN: I am glad the hon. 25 years ago so that he can say, "Look at the member asked that, because during that number of motor cars outside the Too­ period the cost of living in Queensland rose woomba Foundry now. When Labour was more than in any other State. I cannot in office there were only push-bikes there." let this sort of thing go unchallenged. In No doubt he could say, "The ministerial cars the Address-in-Reply debate I quoted figures today are ever so much more opulent and taken from Commonwealth statistics which slinky than the ones used by the Labour showed the increases in each State capital. Government and its Ministers in 1957"-and They showed that the increase in the basic so they are. But they are no better today wage for the last five years was 20·4 per when compared with the vehicles used by cent. The increase in the cost of living other people. in Queensland was 23 point something per Mr. Pizzey: This Government gave the use cent., and the increase in rents in this of a car to the Leader of the Opposition. State was 27 per cent., so I throw back in the teeth of the hon. member for Mr. DUGGAN: I am not petty in these Sherwood the statement-- matters. Recently I paid the hon. gentleman a generous tribute in this Parliament for Mr. Herbert: I did not say that. his courtesy. The Premier indicated to me the other day that he was prepared to make Mr. DUGGAN: I am sorry, it was the certain air-travel facilities available to me, debating hon. member for Nundah. and I asked him to accept personally, and to convey to his Cabinet colleagues, my This further decline in the average earnings thanks in accepting that offer, so I do not of employees reflects more adversely on think I have been ungenerous about what Queensland because there is in New South the Government has done for me. I should Wales a higher earning rate than there is in not have to answer criticism of this kind. Queensland, which has increased during the last five years whilst the cost of living in I do not accept the statement that this Queensland has increased, so that the net dramatic change has taken place. Let us advantage to the New South Wales employee examine the improvement in the general is correspondingly greater. 104 Appropriation Bill No. 1 [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill No. 1

In 1957 Queensland workers were £2·39 determinations. All that we can do is take below those in Victoria. Under this Govern­ notice of the statistics to which I have ment, Queenslanders are £2·86 below Vic­ referred. torians. Compared with South Australia, the Queensland figure shows a slight advantage. Mr. Knox: They are pretty happy with the We were £0·92 below in 1957 and £0·73 Government. below in 1963. In 1957 we were £1·79 Mr. DUGGAN: That was not reflected in below the Australian average. Today we are the result of the last City Council election. £2 · 04 below it. How can anybody say that On this, too, it might be desirable to re-state the Government has been responsible for the position. Even at the last election we improvement? were within 1 per cent. of the total vote cast for the combined Liberal Party and We should now look at the production Country Party candidates in Queensland; so per head of population that has taken place we are not so terribly unpopular if out of during the same period. These figures are every 100 people only one likes us less than taken from the Commonwealth Year Book the coalition Government. We cannot be of 1963, which I had before me when the "rubbished" to the extent that hon. members Treasurer was speaking. In 1956-1957 pro­ opposite claim. It is true that they have a duction per head of population in New South monopoly of the Government benches-- Wales was £196·93. In 1960-1961, the last figures available in this Year Book, which is Mr. Herbert: Very comfortable, too. the most recent in the library, it had increased to £249·43, an increase in that period of Mr. DUGGAN: Yes, and I am sure that four years of £52· 5 per head of population. hon. members opposite will try to continue in In Victoria the increase was £41·95, in South that comfort by the same despicable electoral Australia £26·35, in Western Australia manipulations as they have used up to date to £21·72, and in Queensland £12·46. How keep them in occupation of the Government can it be said that during this period the benches. position in Queensland has been corrected in Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I feel that the such a dramatic way? honourable gentleman's last remark imputes I think it essential that these figures should improper practices to the Government. I do be quoted for inclusion in "Hansard" to not think it is quite parliamentary, and I refute the suggestions that we are talking a ask him to withdraw it. lot of nonsense and are unable to support Mr. DUGGAN: I withdraw the imputa­ by figures what we say. These figures are tion of improper practices. All I say is taken from official journals issued by the this: I am certain that those responsible for Commonwealth Statistician, and there are determining the nature of the representation many other figures that could also be quoted. in this Parliament will show the same skill in the future as they have shown in the past. Let us now turn to the average amount of salary and wages earned per employee. I Mr. SPEAKER: It is a distinction with­ mentioned something about that a few out a difference. moments ago. The amount of increase from 1958-1959 is shown in the Quarterly Sum­ Mr. DUGGAN: Well, I do not know. mary of Australian Statistics, June 1964, No. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the 252, which is one of the latest available. The Opposition should get on with the debate increase in New South Wales was £184 per instead of replying to interjections. head. That means that an employee in 1962-1963 received an increase in his salary Mr. DUGGAN: I do not want to quarrel, of £184 compared with what it was in 1958- but during the debate on the sum of 1959. The increase in Victoria was £193, £68,000,000 the Treasurer introduced the in South Australia £196, in Western Australia subject of Brisbane City Council allocations £149, in Tasmania £157, and in Queensland and gave his interpretation of various aspects £137, the lowest of all the States. of this subject. I am answering what the Treasurer said. There is the reply to claims of increased salaries paid and higher standards of living. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I trust that the If standards of comfort and living as Leader of the Opposition will reply in the reflected in consumer appliances are to be same strain as that in which the Treasurer taken into account, no-one can deny that this dealt with the matter. almost insatiable demand for radio sets cars, and electrical appliances for use in the • home Mr. DUGGAN: I think that fair-minded is growing in every country. That is a members of this House will accept that I am good thing and I am not against it. What I doing so. In the short time available to say is that it would be a reflection on any me since the Treasurer resumed his seat I Government if, after seven years in ?ffice, it have been able to make quite a number of could not say that there had been an mcrease comparisons, and there are many others that in the standard of Jiving. Whether there is I could make. I am dealing only with the greater happiness is another matter; that is particular comments that the Treasurer made, something that we cannot measure and on and I make no apology for bringing hon. which we are unable to make any political members back to deal with these matters .. Appropriation Bill No. 1 [25 AUGUST) Appropriation Bill No. 1 105

The Minister for Transport also took part His reply continues: in the debate this afternoon, and I have no "The special rate forms a contract quarrel with what he had to say. He made between the Commissioner and Koeith a statement of the position, and I repeat now Hollands, and it is not considered ethical what I said then by way of interjection: that the business of a customer of the that the propriety of what the Railway Department should be disclosed. However, Department was doing in this matter was the same concessional freight rate would be never questioned by me or by anybody available to any other shipping company else. If the Railway Department thinks under the same conditions, who declared that, as a matter of business, it can increase the goods to be for onwards conveyance its revenue by means that are deemed to by sea to ports north of Cairns and who be prudent and fair, that is the responsibility did themselves carry out such carriage by of the administration. I did not at any sea." stage cast any reflection upon the Minister or the Railway Department for entering into What I am concerned about at this stage is agreements with Keith Hollands Shipping Co. why this particular matter was considered Pty. Ltd. for the provision of particular to be unethical a week ago but perfectly freight rates. What I did say was that I ethical today. I also want to say-and thi5 indicted the Government because, by the is not said in any spirit of acrimony-that Railway Department's agreeing to this par­ the Minister indicated that port rates operated ticular proposal, it had indirectly provided and had operated for a number of years. It a subsidy to the proposed shipping line vary­ is true there were many anomalies, some of ing between £70,000 and £90,000, depending which were corrected in my time and some upon the tonnage that is computed as having of which have been corrected in the Minister's been delivered to Thursday Island. time. The question of interstate shipping and the degree of competition with the railways Mr. Chalk: It is a subsidy of the people has alway9 constituted problems in the of Thursday Island. administration of the Railway Department. I had them and the present Minister had Mr. DUGGAN: That is not true, either. them. I corrected some obvious ones and That is why I say again that there is a no doubt he has corrected others during his need to answer these statements. period of office. I do not deny that the shipping companies were taking away business Mr. Chalk: You cannot have it both ways. from the railways, but the Minister went on to say that when it became apparent that Mr. DUGGAN: I can have it the way Burkes were moving out the Hollands the facts present themselves, which is that interests approached him to ascertain what on the £14 a ton that Hollands proposes would be the department's attitude to good11 charging on goods conveyed to Thursday being conveyed on a certain basis. I think Island, there is a difference of 5s. 6d. a ton that is rather significant-that Burkes were as compared with the existing rate charged moving out. All the evidence in my posses­ by John Burke Ltd. If the Minister thinks sion is that Burkes did not desire to move out that 5s. 6d. a ton is going to mean that a and that they have no current desire to move benefit of £70,000 will accrue to the people out. They are being forced out by this of Thursday Island, I say that it is a pretty decision. miserable benefit. This suggestion of the approach coming on Mr. Hiley: It is £13 13s. on anything that the assumption that Burkes were moving out originates from Cairns. is untrue. Burkes were not moving out and the fact that they tendered for a renewal Mr. DUGGAN: I shall come to that point of the contract indicates in a most striking in a moment. I am dealing now with the and conclusive way their desire to stav in intervention in the debate of the Minister this State. No-one can tell me that someone who is moving out would submit a tender for Transport. At least we got him to for a continuation of a contract despite rising acknowledge the terms and conditions of costs and other increases and would be pre­ this particular freight arrangement, a respon­ pared to operate on a series of alternative sibility that he was not prepared to meet propositions that are largely the same mone­ when replying to a question asked by the tary-wise as they were previously. hon. member for Tablelands in this Chamber last week. He said it was unethical to convey The Minister said that Hollands made a information of this kind. proposition for truck lots whether the trucks were filled or not. We find they are 24-ton This is what he did say in reply to the wagons on which they pay a minimum of hon. member for Tablelands- £200 for 20 tons at £10 a ton and £10 a "Keith Hollands have a special freight rate ton for anything in excess of 20 tons. That was developed during the discussion when the from Brisbane to Cairns for goods declared Treasurer interjected and said this arrange­ to be for onward conveyance by sea to ment would apply to hauliers, or to anybody ports north of Cairns, the conveyance of else for that matter. I strongly argue that which is performed by the Company. The it does not apply to hauliers. I had occasion rate does not apply on goods for Cairns." recently to interview certain transport He made that distinction. operators. I am not going to open up the 106 Appropriation Bill No. 1 [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill No. 1

general subject of road transport at the charged from Cairns to Thursday Island by moment, but in the case of Hollands the Burke was £10 Ss., and Hollands's charge is Government is in fact giving them a margin £7 Ss. a ton for goods originating in Cairns. of 20 per cent. In regard to the loading for If there is all this talk about creating more each of those wagons the Government is business in Cairns, why do not Hollands take making a 24-ton truck available to them and these goods originating in Cairns from Cairns saying, "You only have to pay us for 20 to Thursday Island for £4 a ton? They tons." In other words, they are being given charge £14 and they pay the Railway Depart­ a 20 peT cent. reserve capacity. The Govern­ ment £10, leaving a margin of £4. ment says to them, "Ji you fill it up you pay for it but if you don't the department accepts The Minister for Transport mentioned all that." But when the same Government is the problems involved in loading goods in assessing the freight from Western Queens­ Brisbane, unloading them at an unsuitable land to bring wool down heTe it does not give place in Cairns and then trans-shipping them those people a 20 per cent. margin as in for onward transmission to Thursday Island. this case; it charges them the appropriate Goods produced in Cairns, whether they be charge per mile on the full capacity of the meat, vegetables, fruit, or anything else, can truck. If it is a 16-ton truck with two tons be delivered at the dock-side at less cost on board the charge is for 16 tons. So than goods coming by rail, yet they are going there is not complete equality in this matter. to charge the Cairns people £7 a ton com­ pared with £4 a ton to Thursday Island for A person who has a contract with the goods sent by co-ordinated rail from Brisbane. Railway Department at Cairns gets a 20 per How is this arrangement going to benefit cent. non-loading concession. I have seen Cairns? from the documents of road hauliers that they have paid roughly £60 for bringing wool I have here a document from Burns Philp. down from the West, and then approximately The Minister has probably seen this one. £200 for the return trip, plus £3Q-odd for I read it only at tea-time. It does not alter the tax under the Roads (Contribution to my argument in any way. On the contrary, Maintenance) Act on this series of journeys. it reinforces it. When the hon. member for In that case there is not this 20 per cent. Maryborough was up there recently this mat­ It is untrue that they are treated with com­ ter was discussed in the presence of Govern­ plete equality as the Treasurer stated. I do ment members, so there is no secrecy about not say that he did it deliberately. In the it. I think Government members have case of the person having a rail contract received a copy of this document. I am the 20 per cent. applies; in the case of the merely pointing out that it came into my person taking goods back to the West he has possession only tonight. I was unaware of it to pay for the full capacity of his truck whether he is carrying 10 tons, 2 tons, 1 ton but it made no difference to my case. It or going back empty. merely indicates that these people are not interested in this shipping. In this case they Now I come to the subject of new business pointed out the economic difficulties, the in Cairns. I agree with the Treasurer. I financial burdens, and the physical problems should like to see maximum production of confronting people charged with the responsi­ goods in Townsville and Cairns, with the bility of providing a service in these areas. islands being supplied from those centres. When I said earlier that I was told by many It is untrue to say that there is an incentive consumers in Thursday Island that they pre­ for people to manufacture goods in Cairns. ferred Brisbane meat, it was largely because Unless they have these concessional arrange­ when they were getting pre-packed meat from ments, according to the Minister no-one has Amagraze, by the time it had been handled a better arrangement than £10 a ton. What in and out of freezers and put back into the about the small trader in Cairns paying out freezing cabinets on Thursday Island it was more than £20 a ton for his goods? Unless not as palatable as larger portions of meat a big chain store such as Coles or Wuol­ from Brisbane. They did not want to get worths, or some other large undertaking, is pre-packed meat from the Queerah meat­ taking a larger volume of goods and getting works. I do not want to rubbish Amagraze; a preferential rate somewhere below the I am merely stating what was told to me. classified rate for the ordinary consumer of Personally, I should like to see meat go goods, the preferential conditions convey no from Cairns and Townsville to Thursday benefit. In any case, the small man with Island rather than that we should supply it a loading of 20 tons does not qualify unless from Brisbane. That seems the logical thing he indicates that he has a shipping service to do to avoid the long transport by rail at destination because that is a term and or road. By supplying from Cairns and condition which the Minister has laid down Townsville we are providing for decentralisa­ as a minimum requirement. There will be tion. That is my own personal view, and I no discrimination so long as someone says, think it would be the view of all hon. "I have a shipping service for goods to be members. forwarded from Cairns and I can give you Let us examine it in a little more detail. 20 tons in one movement, on one wagon, The only difference under this arrangement is to Cairns." He would have to pay the that they save 5s. 6d. a ton on goods sent ordinary classification rates, which vary from from Brisbane. It is true that the rate 668s. 3d. a ton for first-class goods up to Appropriation Bill No. 1 [25 AUGUST] Appropriation Bill N11. 1 107

1,125s. 6d. a ton for second-class goods, and, The Treasurer pointed out the resistance with concessional rates on merchants' con­ he had to meet from the Electricity Com­ tract basis a minimum of £22 2s. lld. a ton. missioner over the cost of fuel on Thursday Island. I should like to see any action For the life of me I cannot see how anyone taken that will lower the cost of living on can bring goods from Brisbane for fabrica­ Thursday Island. By a strange coincidence, tion or manufacture in Cairns when he can­ I found that American brands of cigarettes not get the rate applying to Brisbane mer­ are sold in the trading shops on Thursday chants having goods manufactured here and Island at 3d. cheaper than they are in sent to Cairns, plus the £4 a ton onto Brisbane. There is a flat rate of 3s. 7d. Thursday Island. for cigarettes there compared with 4s. here. John Burke Ltd. have informed me-and I accept their figures in the absence of any As to fuel, I think some immediate relief effective refutation-that their loading cost'S can be given to these people following the per ton are £3 in Cairns and Townsville, declaration by the Prime Minister that he and £2 on Thursday Island. It will cost would take steps to ensure that people in Hollands something to load and unload these remote parts of the Commonwealth would commodities on their small, inadequate, and get petrol at a surcharge of no more than ill-equipped vessels. On the volume and 4d. a gallon. I feel certain that any self­ evidence of their past experience as shippers, respecting Commonwealth Government will see that the people on Thursday Island and I do not think that they can operate at a in the Gulf Country are not excluded from profit. As I said by interjection, what will that benefit. I have been informed that be the position of this company, which has officers of the various State departments been in operation since 1887 and has had who attended conferences in Canberra di~­ this contract since 1921-for about 43 covered that the Prime Minister had only years-with hundreds of thousands of pounds a loose idea of how this would operate, of capital involved, with a complete main­ and he threw it back onto the State officers tenance and servicing of large vessels that to work out a scheme to enable its imple­ are adequate and far superior to the two that mentation as he intended in his policy speech. are proposed to be used by the Hollands shipping line? The money spent in Cairns I feel that that will be some advantage, and Townsville on trans-shipping and so on although it does not remove the particular is being virtually lost. point the Treasurer made that, whatever the price may be, he could get it at a cheaper Mr. Smith: When you say "ill-equipped", rate and it could reflect in lowering operating can you outline it in a little more detail? costs at those places. Mr. DUGGAN: Yes. In the first place Dealing with the inadequacy referred to they do not conform with Lloyd's specifica­ by the hon. member for Windsor, the Govern­ tions. For a start the Commonwealth ment has asked for an adequate general Government operated under the Queensland cargo and freezer service to Thursday Island. Marine Regulations which the Treasurer The freezer rooms on the "Waiben" have referred to and, because there were com­ a total cubic measurement of 2,000 feet. plaints about that by the relevant people This is not sufficient to fulfil all Thursday in the industry, it transferred to Lloyd's Island's needs at times, but it is understood Register for the lighthouse vessels that it that Hollands will be able to provide only operates in this area. 270 cubic feet of freezer space on the I do not want people to get the idea for "Katoora". one moment that I am suggesting a lack of Anybody living in those areas would know probity in the officers. I should be very how important is is that perishable com­ upset to think that such a construction was modities, such as butter, arrive in good placed on my remarks. I merely state that condition. I have been told about vegetables I have been informed-and I am not in such that have been placed on the decks of these an authoritative position as the Treasurer vessels used by Hollands and have arrived to say yea or nay-that there are certain in a very unsuitable condition for con­ conditions in our own vessels which do not sumption. One can imagine what will happen comply with the Marine Regulations and that to perishable goods which are exposed on they have not been able to go out in stormy decks for a couple of days, compared with weather. They are not able to go out as how they travel in a cool-room or a freezer. pilot vessels. I do not know whether that Mr. Smith: I was not questioning the is correct, but not many people would be relative carrying capacities. I thought you happy about travelling to Thursday Island said that they had defective equipment. on either of these small vessels during rough weather. They are sugar lighters, and one Mr. DUGGAN: I suppose fools rush in of them is 37 years old. where angels fear to tread. The "Waiben" Dealing with refrigeration and general has a 20-ton heavy lift gear, and the cargo, I do think that provision has been "Katoora" has gear of only 7 to 8 tons. I made for priority to be given to Government think that would be a consideration. cargo. If Government rights in this matter I do not want to be irrelevant on this are to be preserved, it may well be that some matter. I want to pay the Government a local people on Thursday Island will miss out full measure of praise for what it has done on getting their goods at the appropriate time. on Thursday Island with the school and the 108 Appropriation Bill No. 1 [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill No. 1

hospital. It is deserving of every credit for determine what its policy shall be on th~e what it has done to improve the school and matters. There may be little profit on this the nurses' accommodation on Thursday margin of £4, and what is going to happen Island. That is a tribute to any administration. in three or four years' time if this company I also congratulate the Government on the folds up? I do not particularly want to selection of the head teacher and his assist­ "rubbish" Thomas National Transport, but ants who have been appointed to Thursday the Government acquired land at Clapham Island. I want to be objective and give praise for the operations of this compan~. The where it is due. The Government could, Government claims credit for openmg up however, well spend £4,000 or £5,000 from road transport, but the facts an~ thll;t in the its large coffers to make the roads trafficable. main it has killed intrastate hauliers m many I think the hon. member for Carnarvon and areas. The people who profited are those the others who were on the trip will agree who were able to take advantage of that they are the most shocking roads they Section 92 of the Commonwealth Constitu­ have ever seen. There are only about four tion. It is true that under Labour legisla­ miles of them; all that is needed is a bull­ dozer and a bit of metal, and for £5,000, tion hauliers who had licences did operate £6,000, or £10,000 at least some sort of very remuneratively to themselves. No-one roads could be provided. can deny that. As a Govern~ent, we received as much revenue from this system, I do not think it is generally understood or more, than from a system involving a that there have been periods when the multiplicity of operators. "Waiben" has carried free of charge 1,500 tons of water for the residents of Thursday I am not going to canvass now th~ rights Island during dry spells. The island is not of the Government's transport policy. I endowed with adequate water facilities. remember that there was one large inter­ Indeed, apart from a safe anchorage for state transport undertaking in the Valley ships, it is a poor selection as an island on formerly known as Fly~'s. I forg~t what which to develop a community. The soil it is called now. The chmrman of directors, is bad, there is no adequate rainfall, Mr. Kirkhope, who was a director of ~any apparently its only feature being a good successful companies in Australia, poii!ted anchorage and lead-ins for navigation out what a great contribution it was m~ng, purposes. The Government could well make which it was. But, as I see the picture, available to the Administrator, Mr. Gallop those who, in the main, have derived m?st of Cairns, some money to effect improve­ benefit from road transport are compames ments. On some parts of the road it is that are domiciled in southern State~ necessary to travel in low gear. I think Ansetts, Antill-Ranger, T.N.T.-and I think all who went to the tuberculosis hospital will the Premier would be prepared to concede admit that there were holes 18 inches deep privately, if not publicly, t~at the.se are on the road circuit, which is only two or the companies whose business Is growmg. three miles long. What I am particularly concerned abo~t Mr. Hiley: We made a special grant only i5 that any profits that are made are repatri­ last month. ated, any purchases of vehicles are invariably ne<>otiated in southern States, and so on, and Mr. DUGGAN: I am glad to hear that. I th; companies are getting stronger. When give credit for what has been done for the one goes out to the municipal markets along school and the hospital. Fairfield Road, one sees the tremendous I say with some misgivings that there does structure that Thomas National Transport not seem to be a great future for the island. has built on land formerly owned by the I shall reserve further remarks till the appro­ Commonwealth Government. I have always vulnerab~e. priate Bill comes forward. All I s~y at regarded Fairfield Road as to this stage is that, apart from the cultivated traffic. Indeed, before I left office as Mimster pearl industry and fishing, there do not for Transport, I made a plea for t~e seem to be employment opportunities on the re-alignment of Fairfield Road, and m island. It is not suitable for timber or the 1956-57, when I came back to this Chamber development of any industry apart from in Opposition, I again raised the matter, and fishing, and there do not seem to be any the late Dr. Noble said that it was. a great opportunities there. sensible sUiggestion. Since then brick ?mld­ ings have been constructed along Fai:field One of the problems confronting the Government may well be finding suitable Road. The land that Thomas National employment for boys and girls educated to Transport is now using shoul~, in. my opin~on, Junior standard without their going to the have been used for road-widemng, particu­ mainland. I can imagine nothing worse for larly as the municipal markets have now bee?­ educated lads or young women than having established in that area. We are to have less to remain fishing off a jetty on some island. disability in the inner city, but Fairfield Road I think that view was shared by hon. will become choked instead of being widened. members who made this trip. Thomas National Transport is a powerful I make no apologies for keeping hon. organisation, and it is qui~e within its finan­ members here on this matter. The Govern­ cial capacity to carry deficits on these opera­ ment has the numbers and the right to tions to Thursday Island for two or three Appropriation Bill No. 1 [25 AUGUST] Appropriation Bill No. 1 109 years by charging them to its considerable made. I have not opened up this second­ general business ramifications throughout the reading debate with any purpose of inviting Commonwealth. However, I doubt whether hon. members on this side of the House to it can give as good a service as John Burke join me, but if hon. members opposite want Ltd. has given. This is an opinion that is to take up the challenge we are prepared shared by many people. However, although to stay here as long as necessary. I am the Treasurer takes up one attitude and I responsible for the Opposition. If the take up another, only time will tell which of Treasurer elects to reply and let it go at us is correct. that I shall be satisfied. In registering my views on this matter I have done so without The Treasurer said that we spoke to the trying to be nasty or imputing wrong motives, wrong people. I spoke to traders, local but I think the Opposition's point of view inhabitants in humble places, and business should be stated in this House. people. I made inquiries as widely as I could because I was looking for facts and Mr. McKECHNIE (Carnarvon) (8.16 p.m.): information, and I then tried to form con­ The Leader of the Opposition has said that clusions. Before speaking to these people I many of the benefits that we have accrued had no information, and from information over the last few years would have come given to me by the hon. member for Table­ over that period of time irrespective of any lands, other members of this Assembly repre­ action of this Government. I assert that senting northern electorates, and other people the prosperity of our present times is whom I have met from time to time, I have undoubtedly tied up with the good business come to the conclusion that there is a serious principles that this Government has exerted doubt about the ability of Keith Hollands in co-operation with primary industry, Shipping Co. Pty. Ltd. to provide an adequate secondary industry and private enterprise service for the people of North Queensland. generally over the past few years. I think, too, that it could well prove an The hon. member for Belmont mentioned unremunerative operation for the company. wheat and said that our big strides in bulk A ship that is 3 7 years old and does not handling occurred during the war years. That comply with Lloyd's specifications will have is not so; we were not in a position during to be replaced before long. It is not an those years to go into bulk handling. The ocean-going vessel in the proper sense of the progress has been during the last few years, term; it is a former sugar-lighter. When that time comes, I ask people interested in when prosperity has come to us. Prosperity the problem to look back on this debate. has been the key that has unlocked us from Thomas National Transport, which has the the drudgery of heavy work in the wheat controlling interest-Hollands probably has a industry and today we have an industry well shareholding of only 1 per cent., if that­ over half of which is totally handled in bulk. will approach the authorities and say, "We Much of the remaining proportion is handled did accept your invitation on the basis of by semi-bulk methods which take the worst doing this in a competitive way. Tn all of the drudgery, if not all of it, out of the good conscience"-! am not imputing industry. improper motives--"we have suffered a deficit, and we want a subsidy." I think that We find ourselves in a position today where is what is going to happen to this shipping wheat in bags could sell at a premium because service. What I think is very unfair and there is quite a demand in a State like ours wrong is that-even though this action is where we consume half of our wheat pro­ taken with the best motives in the world­ duction within our own domestic markets and a company which has been operating here it is very convenient for many small poultry since 1887 and which has hundreds of thous­ farmers, pig farmers, and so forth, to get ands of pounds invested in the State should their wheat in bags rather than in bulk. So be treated in this way. we are approaching the position where it We have a distinguished former member could be advantageous for a certain amount of the judiciary, Mr. Justice Matthews, of wheat to be sold in bags. That is the writing to the Press and saying how every­ result of the big strides we have made in body enjoyed a trip to the Barrier Reef and bulk handling. Thursday Island on the "Waiben"; we have an overseas representative whose photograph This expanding of the industry has been appeared in "The Courier Mail' yesterday brought about by the growers themselves and saying how wonderful the Barrier Reef is; by the Government's aiding and pushing and we have the Premier frequently speaking different forms of research. In Toowoomba about the great attractions of the Barrier there is the Wheat Institute. This Govern­ Reef. Yet we are now taking away one ment has gone all out to give the growers of the few opportunities that people have this facility and the growers themselves were for visiting that area, because no passenger not only satisfied with contributing to the accommodation will be provided on the ships compulsory levy; they voluntarily levied them­ that are to be used. selves as much again in the interests of research. The Treasurer may be content to rest his case on what he has said already; he may Mr. O'Donnell: This research did not go on answer some of the comments that I have prior to 1957? 110 Appropriation Bill No. 1 [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill No. 1

Mr. McKECHNIE: It went on, but it has from each sheep, and by the use of diazan~m gone on at an accelerated rate and we have and thibenzole many sheep that otherwise had the co-operation of the Government and would have died have been saved. By the the firms in the handling facilities. use of new drenches greater wool production Mr. Hanlon: What about the other States? has been possible. It is all tied up with the Government's research programme. In addi­ Mr. McKECHNIE: A few years ago we tion, the Government has seen fit to assist had virtually none. The other States had the wool industry further by indirectly assist­ made some progress but we had to catch ing the Unive·rsity of Queensland to provide up that lag, which we have done during the a veterinary clinic at Goondiwindi which will last few years. investigate still further the problems of the industry and provide an advisory service. As the Treasurer has said, there is a More important still is the fact that students penalty with bulk handling in that it does will be taken out there for practical training minimise the labour force in those areas. under field conditions where they will have Until now, quite a bit of the extra money larger numbers of sheep to work with. that has been produced has gone to southern firms to buy machinery for this State. But Stabilisation is essentially a benefit to now machinery is being produced more and Australia. Admittedly it benefits the grower more in this State so that we will re-employ but basically it is aimed at Australia's advan­ some of our own work force instead of tage. The Federal Government has recog­ employing people in South Australia, Victoria nised this to the tune of £60,000,000 and it and New South Wales. is backed by the growers to th<: extent of £20,000,000. Stabilisation also will provide With the prospects of natural gas being greater assurance of employment in the reticulated such places as Roma, Dalby and industry. When the market tightened up last Toowoomba will be given an opportunity to year the wool-grower got as little as 40d.-odd expand as agricultural-machinery-producing per lb. average, and in many cases the centres. They are expanding at the moment. employees suffered first. The employer can This will give them some priority over Bris­ stand down his men and enjoy a reasonable bane in decentralising these industries. This standard of living although it may not be as production has been asisted by relatively high as he is accustomed to. In such cases, stable railway freights. Here the Railway my sympathies lie with the employees. I Department has been of great assistance to believe that stabilisation will give them a us. Like most of the growers, I feel that greater assurance of continuity of employ­ more assistance should be given by way of ment. I am sure that the Federal Govern­ reductions in freights. However, compared ment realises the gravity of the situation and with the other States Queensland's freight is working towards a stabilisation plan for rates have been very stable. This has assisted the benefit of Australia as a whole. the wheat industry to hold its costs. Mr. Newton: And the grower. While mentioning rail freights, let me point out that apples are now transported from the Mr. McKECHNIE: Yes, I admit that. The Granite Belt at half the cost of seven or price at which it is estimated it will be eight years ago. Consequently the Railway fixed will be only 52d. lb. That is not a Department has helped us greatly in that very remunerative price, as most honourable direction. The Government has done two members know. Under the economic survey other things for the apple industry. At the a wool-grower needs about 5,000 sheep to present time the Department of Primary run his property economically at 52d. Those Industries is building a research station at with fewer than 5,000 sheep will be working Applethorpe which will cost £46,000. With under conditions that are uneconomic, so a what the Government has done, plus the case could be made out for an economic contribution by the agents and the C.O.D., unit of 5,000 sheep. However, as the it will mean an inve·stment of £2,000,000 in honourable member for Warrego pointed out, the new markets that are to be opened tomorrow. This is another way in which most growers in Australia have fewer than the Government is assisting in bringing about 2,000 sheep and consequently I trust that this the present prosperity. price of 52d. will remain only until the industry finds its feet. It must build up a The hon. member for Warrego dealt with reserve. The £60,000,000 is guaranteed, the wool industry and spoke about the but not necessarily provided, by the Common­ £60,000,000 that the Commonwealth Govern­ wealth Government. ment is putting in and the £20,000,000 to be contributed by the growers. The Treasurer Mr. Murray: Surely that has not occurred made the pertinent point that it is a Com­ yet, unless it happened today? monwealth matter. I agree with him. How­ ever, as the matter was brought up I will Mr. McKECHNIE: No, a poll will be touch on it because it concerns us greatly. taken first. I am taking up too much time Here again the Department of Primary on this and, after all, it is a Federal matter. Industries has been a big help in carrying However, as the honourable member for out research which has resulted in the pro­ Warrego raised it I wanted to let him know duction of a greater quantity of wool from that we are well aware of the situation, and the same area and a greater quantity of wool that we are keeping it in mind. Appropriation Bill No. 1 [25 AUGUST] Appropriation Bill No. 1 111

I turn now to a few matters raised by the that possibility, and when we are discussing Leader of the Opposition. He said that finance we should make provision for such a subsidy was paid on fish from Burketown an eventuality. to Mt. Isa, but not on meat from Mt. Isa to I feel that provincial hospitals, particularly Burketown. I sympathise with the people who the inland ones, should have better facilities would like ready-cut meat from the abattoir for handling casualties. I do not suggest or the butchery in Mt. Isa. We must realise that bed space should be provided, but hos­ that Burketown is in cattle country and it is pitals at places such as Toowoomba, Warwick quite feasible to kill the stock there. I know and Dalby should have better theatre facilities there are certain advantages and I know, too, for handling casualties, and temporary wards that it would be good for the people to get could be built to help out in case of war. their meat by air. However, as I say, Burke­ I ask the Treasurer to set aside more money town is in cattle country and I do not think for civil defence. Like all hon. members, I that a sound case could be presented to have an abhorrence of war and the possibility support the freighting of meat to a meat­ of war, but I am a realist about the chance producing area. Again, in relation to the of a war being forced upon us. The most price of Cairns meat at Thursday Island, logical conclusion is that Brisbane will be the cattle on the hoof sell cheaper in Cairns most likely place in Queensland to be bombed. than in Brisbane. If they are oought in That is one of the reasons I advocate decen­ Brisbane at a higher price they have still to tralisation, and at the moment I am rather be transported to Cairns at £10 a ton. It touchy about the need for more expenditure must eventually be a better proposition to on hospitals which can be turned into large­ use meat from Cairns, as it is cheaper and scale emergency treatment areas if there is will help decentralisation. a war. We would be criminal, and lacking I agree with the Leader of the Opposition in our duty, if we did not take such matters that the roads on Thursday Island were into consideration. frightful when we were there. However, I appreciate this opportunity to air those we have the Treasurer's assurance that a few views in reply to the Leader of the grant has been made and something will be Opposition, for whom I have the greatest done to improve the position in the very respect. I wished to clear up those points near future. When the Leader of the Opposi­ on which I disagree with him. tion said that a lot of money has not been Mr. NEWTON (Belmont) (8.35 p.m.): I spent by the Government in that area-- enter the debate at this late stage mainly to Mr. Duggan: I did not say that at all. clear up a point I raised this afternoon when the Treasurer was replying, when I said that Mr. McKECHNIE: The Leader of the during the last war many industries, par­ Opposition said that more could be spent. ticularly primary industries, became That is true. However, a great deal is mechanised. To my amazement, there were being spent. The Government is spending giggles and laughter from hon. members on aoout a neat £1,000,000 on the missions at the other side who think they are the only present. There is a big hospital on Thurs­ people who have worked on the land in this day Island. It is much bigger than is State. usually provided in a comparable town on the A Government Member: You didn't work mainland, but of course there is a large there for too long. population of islanders to cater for. The doctors' and nurses' quarters are very attract­ Mr. NEWTON: Long enough to know ive and, in addition, there is an island chest something about it. I worked there for six hospital. A school is run by the Depart­ or seven years. Listen to me and I will tell ment of Education and when the Bill is you just where I worked. passed we will have to spend much more money in the field of education. My Mr. SPEAKER: Order! The hon. member opinion is that European teachers are will address the Chair. essential before we can make much progress Mr. NEWTON: Hon. members opposite in the Torres Strait islands and on the Pen­ get me very upset with their interjections. insula. They sit here year in and year out and think I feel that the State should set more that they are the only neople who know money aside for civil defence. When touring anything about this subiect. I am not the islands, many of us were surprised to find going to let them get away with it. I am that Queensland is only two miles from the sincere about it, and I thin]( they should be. New Guinea mainland and 16 miles from After alL they are supposed to be here repre­ Sukarno's territory. Remembering the turmoil senting the men on the land and those who that exists today in the North, we work for them. The way they come here would be failing in our duty if we did not and carry on over this indnstry is shocking take cognisance of the situation. Although and d;s"raceful. They can laugh and giggle. I abhor the possibility and the thought of war, Probably I did it the hard way when I worked we must accept the fact that within our on farms, particularly in the Pittsworth and lifetime, or within the lifetime of our children Warwick districts. Brisbane could be, and very likely will be: Mr. Murray: It was so bad before this bombed. If we are realists we will accept Government got in. 112 Appropriation Bill No. 1 [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill No. 1

Mr. NEWTON: If the hon. member would speech of the Leader of the Opposition about like to know, I shall tell him what actually the present shipping service from Sydney did happen. It is true, as the Treasurer to Thursday Island and the alternative service said, that there have been great changes in proposed by the Government, I think it is my the primary industries. What was the posi­ duty to say something in reply. tion after the 1929-32 episode that was experienced in this State? Many of us had Some of the comments of the hon. member to leave the cities to find jobs, and we were for Tablelands about the proposed service willing to take work wherever we could get amazed me. I have played some part in it and work what hours were required. In promoting the service from Cairns to Thurs­ those times the hours were from 4 o'clock day Island, and I hope that the time is not in the morning tiii 8 o'clock at night, par­ far distant when we can extend the service ticularly on the Darling Downs. still farther north. A Government Member: That was under We heard a great deal about the cargo a Labour Gvvernment. that is carried by this shipping service, and it would be interesting to examine some of Mr. NEWTON: That was not under a it. Anyone who has visited Thursday Island Labour Government at all. If the hon. and has seen the cargo that is unloaded will member listens to what I have to say, he agree that the greater part of it is food­ will find out how it came about. Because stuffs-beef, veal, vegetables of various types, of the conditions prevailing at that time, butter, dairy produce, and so on-and I do there were people passing through those dis­ not know of any area better fitted to serve tricts who were willing to take a job to get Thursday Island than the Atherton Tableland, food and a bed. That is what happened, part of which I have the honour to represent. and there was plenty of labour available. Mr. Houston: You will admit that you need a good deal of refrigerated space? Under these conditions, some of us who had come from the city raised the question Mr. AltMSTRONG: No. I was surprised with the farmers, "Why don't we do some­ to hear the Leader of the Opposition talking thing about mechanisation? Why do we have about cabbages deteriorating. The journey to hamess up 10 horses every morning to go from Cairns to Thursday Island does not take and plough or harrow a field?" I could not very long, and I do not think that a bag of see in those days of 1935 why we should be cabbages, for example, would deteriorate on doing those things in Queensland when the deck. It might, of course, if it had to primary industry was one of the most impor­ travel a . greater distance. tant industries. The same thing applied in the milking of cows. Everything was done Mr. Duggau: You are admitting that these by hand. I remember that at one place at things will be placed on the decks? Kenilworth, where I enlisted prior to the last Mr. ARMSTRONG: No. Those are the war, we milked over 100 cows by hand, hon. gentleman's words, not mine. spending sometimes two hours in the dairy alone. Mr. Duggan: You said they would not deteriorate. My point when I interjected this after­ noon during the Treasurer's speech was that Mr. ARMSTRONG: The Leader of the labour was not available at that time and Opposition said that they would deteriorate other means of carrying out the work had and would .be in a bad state when they to be found. That was when the farmer reached Thursday Island. I say that a bag realised the importance of mechanisation, of cabbages can be carried quite satisfactorily. and that is what I had in mind when I interjected. I was not referring to what hap­ Mr. Murray: Particularly northern pened afterwards in the introduction of such cabbages. things as the bulk-loading of wheat and Mr. ARMSTRONG: I thank the hon. sugar. This was the beginning by the man on member for Clayfield for his interjection. the land of endeavours to find other means of carrying out his work to make up for We have heard the Leader of the Opposi­ the absence of those who had enlisted in tion backing John Burke Ltd. the service of their country in World War IT. Mr. Duggan: A Queensland firm. Before I resume my seat I want to say Mr. ARMSTRONG: They have not done that I have the highest regard for the men very much for the North. on the land and their workers, and, if I Mr. Duggan: They have done more than make an interjection, I do not intend to sit T.N.T. here and be laughed at by hon. members on the other side who should have more Mr. ARMSTRONG: They have been respect for those whom they represent. drawing subsidies for a number of years. Keith Hollands Shipping Co. Pty. Ltd. started Mr. ARMSTRONG (Mulgrave) (8.40 p.m.): without a subsidy and has been operating for I did not intend to take part in the debate, a number of years. The service it has but, as a representative from the northern provided cannot be as bad as we are led part of Queensland, and after listening to the to believe. If it is, it is remarkable that Appropriation Bill No. 1 (25 AUGUST] Appropriation Bill No. 1 113 it has been able to keep going. It has received will carry on that service and give the people no subsidy and has been operating mainly the length of service that John Burke has from Cairns. It is only in the last twelve given. months or so that the contract with the Rail­ The hon. member for Mulgrave has just way Department on freight from Brisbane pointed out that whereas John Burke has was entered into. Incidentally, I do not been bringing foodstuffs and frozen goods know whether very much will be carted from from the South into Thursday I~land, th?se Brisbane, because the opportunities for deve­ goods will now come from Carrns, which loping Thursday Island are not very great. will be of advantage to the business people The water supply is inadequate, and I do not in the Cairns region. Over the years,. John think there can be much further expansion Burke has failed to give a good service to there. It then becomes a question of feeding Cooktown and to the people of Cape York the people. The climate is hot and the beer Peninsula. consumption may be higher there than it is in other places, but Cairns can supply this Mr. Dugg:m: Don't you think the road to commodity. We do not want people getting China Camp will overcome much of that? supplies from southern interests when they are available in the North, and then telling Mr. ADAIR: It certainly will; it will make us that we are not developing the North. all the difference. But they have failed to give service to Cooktown an~ Cape York I believe that the proposed shipping service Peninsula. At the present time, Hollands will help the people of the North. It will does take the goods and requirements to certainly help the potato-growers, who pro­ people at Marina Plains, Cape York, ~oen, duce ample supplies on the Atherton Table­ Cooktown and further north. He provrdes a land and who under the old arrangement good service. Port Stewart is closed to boats were unable to get one potato taken to because of the closing-in of the harbour. Thursday Island. I think they will be given I do not know what the Treasurer can do priority now, and I am sure that they will there in the way of dredging. It is classified as a port, but boats cannot enter it. If not be grateful for some of the statements they could it would mean giving to the people on the shipping service made by the Opposi­ of Coen ~nd of the top portion of Cape tion in this debate. In the long run, I can York Peninsula much cheaper rates. Whereas see nothing but good coming from it. it would be 40 miles from Coen, Marina Mention was made of electricity, which is Plains is over 100 miles, which means that very expensive on Thursday Island, and those the goods and requirements of that area have hon. members who visited the island recently to be carted that extra distance and transport and spoke to the people would probably have is very costly-around £27 a ton for trans­ been told how expensive it is. The Treasurer port from Cairns to Marina Plains and then pointed out that but for the Government­ to Coen. subsidised shipping service fuel for the power I heard several speakers mention the bad plant would have been landed cheaper by state of the roads on Thursday Island. The Holland's shipping service, thereby reducing Minister knows that over the years I have generating costs and allowing the Cairns pointed out to him on various occasions the Regional Electricity Board to reduce charges. necessity to provide money for the construc­ On several occasions they brought before me tion of roads on Thursday Island. I do not the cost of their electricity. In a climate think any place in Queensland has worse such as they have, they are fairly big con­ roads than there are on Thursday Island, sumers of this commodity. and the construction of new roads will have I should also like to say that this company to be undertaken by the Government. Theirs is not interested only in shipping. It has is the responsibility. There is no way in the several other interests in North Queensland world that people on the island can be rated, and it is making a substantial contribution because two-thirds of it is unratable. Only to its development. I should think its assets one-third of the island can be rated as two­ in North Queensland would exceed the thirds is owned by religious bodies or the £200,000 mark. These people have not been Federal and State Governments, so collecting operating for long but they have demon­ revenue from the island is impossible. strated their sincerity to me. They have also demonstrated their capacity to do the job and Mr. Pizzey: A special grant was given only I want to see the products that are grown in a few weeks ago. North Queensland going to a market in North Queensland. Mr. ADAKR: Yes, but the grant was too small. Federal aid money amounts to £2,000. Mr. ADAIR (Cook) (8.46 p.m.): As the How far will that go? representative in this Parliament of Thursday Mr. Hiley: There was a special grant of Island I have listened to the discussion £8,000 the other day. about the shipping companies, Hollands and John Burke. I support the Leader of the Mr. ADAKR: There are only about four Opposition in his doubts as to whether Keith or five miles of road on Thursday Island, yet Hollands can give the service to Thursday people there who own cars have to pay the Island that John Burke has been giving over same registration fees as motorists in Brisbane the years. I am also doubtful whether he who can travel hundreds of miles on bitumen 114 Appropriation Bill No. 1 [ASSEMBLY] Appropriation Bill No. 1 highways. It would cost £1,000 to get think I should try to clarify. The hon. mem­ machinery there to grade the roads. An ber for Carnarvon referred to the wool amount of £8,000 would do very little for a stabilisation scheme as a fait accompli, and place like that. this morning the hon. member for Warrego Mr. Pizzey: It is three times as much as was quite critical of the Federal Govern­ was spent in any one year before. ment's role in this scheme. I think some explanations are due. Firstly, at this stage Mr. ADAIR: That is probably so, but if it is only a proposal, and the industry itself the Government is going to do something has not reached a firm conclusion about what about the roads on Thursday Island nothing will be required ultimately. The idea of less than £20,000 is needed. the scheme is to have a reserve price, and in effect this price is to be projected only John Burke has employed a lot of labour, one year ahead. I am merely reflecting the especially waterside labour, on Thursday words of the industry concerned as I know Island. As soon as Burke goes off and it at this stage. If the scheme is adopted, the Hollands takes over, all the men working on amount of £80,000,000 is supposed to be the wharf will l:>e out of employment. It will coming from two sources. I repeat "if it is make it very difficult for their wives and adopted". At this stage I doubt that it has families. At least 30 to 40 men will be been presented for consideration to the unemployed. That is my main concern. Federal Government. The idea is that Hollands does not employ waterside labour. £20,000,000 will be found by the industry The crew unload the boats. concerned and the Commonwealth Govern­ I have pointed out the need for roads to ment may be asked to guarantee the the Minister. He has just told me that he £60,000,000. This last-mentioned amount has granted £8,000. Is that in addition to will then be found by the industry, under the £2,000 Federal aid money? Government guarantee, and is to be supplied by lending authorities such as banks and Mr. Hiley: Yes. insurance companies. I doubt very much that the statement by the hon. member for Mr. ADAIR: That will be a help. Warrego that this money will have to be Mr. Hiley: It is a grant, not a loan. found by the taxpayer has any validity. I repeat that this scheme is only in the forma­ Mr. ADAIR: I sincerely hope that that tive stage. will be sufficient to carry out a good deal of the road work required up there. As their The Liberal Party's policy on orderly mar­ representative for the area I thought it was keting is quite clear. Any industry is required only right that I should point out what was to work out its own scheme and make its needed. own submission and then it may approach the Government with the scheme. When this Mr. CAMPBELL (Aspley) (8.53 p.m.): I scheme is presented to the Government, in had not intended to make a contribution to this case the Federal Government, very care­ this debate and do so only because of the ful consideration will, I feel sure, be given to intrusion of the hon. member for Belmont all aspects of the case, and I am quite confi­ when he--- dent that a correct decision will be reached. Mr. Newton: Don't you challenge it. Hon. T. A. HILEY (Chatsworth­ Mr. CAMPBELL: I challenge the hon. Treasurer) (8.57 p.m.), in reply: I hope member's remark that it was because of the that no hon. member has any notion that war that mechanisation took place on our any member of the Government wants to farms. Anybody who did not have his farm take exception to this debate being continued mechanised prior to the war had very little during the second-reading stage. That is chance of obtaining mechanisation during the the perfect privilege of the House in an war because those industries were diverted to open debate such as on the Appropriation war production. It was not until quite a few Bill. I for one relish the fact that some years after the war that this type of produc­ previous arguments were repeated, sometimes tion was resumed. What the hon. member with a fresh facet. I certainly assure the for Belmont overlooks is the tremendous part Leader of the Opposition that there was no played during the war by members of the need for him to repeat on three occasions Women's Land Army. They made a great some note of regret, or to state that he had contribution in filling the gap left by the no apology for raising these matters. It is enlistments in our armed forces. It would his privilege; I welcome it and the Govern­ be fair to say that it was not until the ment welcomes it. Liberal-Country Party Government took office in the Federal sphere in 1949, with the rural Dealing firstly with the matter he raised policy that stemmed from that Government, concerning prosperity, I am extremely grat­ that prosperity enabled our land industries to ful for the statistics he quoted. As I listened, embark upon the present vigorous mechanisa­ a quick mental arithmetic made it clear that tion policy. what he illustrated confirmed what we had asserted, and it supported and assisted us Mr. UCKISS (Mt. Coot-tha) (8.55 p.m.): all the way. Take the very first figures he I did not intend to enter the debate, but instanced. The average earnings in New certain statements have been made which I South Wales in 1957 were £19·95; in 1963 Appropriation Bill No. 1 [25 AUGUST] Appropriation Bill No. 1 115

they were £25 · 17, which represents an on Thursday Island is in the realm of food­ increase of 26·21 per cent. in the inter­ stuffs. In that realm, I believe that there mediate period. In Queensland's case the will be less Melbourne Bitter sold in the average wage was £17 · 42; it is now £22 ·18, Thursday Island hotels, because in addition which represents an increase of 27 · 3 per to draught beer going there from the Cairns cent. That is the very point I want to make, brewery there will be canned and bottled and I am glad that the message has sunk in. beer. The freight advantage will express itself. Mr. Hanlon: We were a long while getting up to that rate. The hon. gentleman was keen to acknow­ ledge that in spite of some expressed distaste Mr. HILEY: Once the percentage starts on the part of meat consumers, the supply to improve, we overtake. It is when the should originate from the northern source. percentages are running against us that we That is one of our hopes. There is some­ are really in trouble. thing radically wrong with the state of Den­ mark if, considering the lower freight rate Mr. Hanlon: Our people will believe it from Cairns to Thursday Island, an area like when they get it in their pockets. They North Queensland cannot win the market for don't believe in percentages. fruit and vegetables, as well as peanuts and Mr. HILEY: The second matter mentioned maize products from the Atherton Tableland. was northern transport. This contract is for a term. If the con­ Mr. Hanlon: What about production per tractor falls down during the term a very head? The main point of your argument substantial bond, which has been executed was that we were producing more with fewer under the seal of the Australia and New people, and that was why we had less Zealand Bank, will be forfeited. When the population. term is drawing to a close, it is the Govern­ ment's intention that repeated public tenders Mr. HILEY: I have examined that, and will be called. It has no intention of offer­ do not intend to anticipate what I will put ing any conceded subsidy, either during the before the Chamber in the Budget. If the term of the contract or on a negotiated hon. member listens carefully I will inform renewal. This tender has been won on the him how, under many heads, this State is acid test of public tender. Our attitude will climbing out of a state of disadvantage and be varied only by the same acid test of taking on one of relative strength. And it public tender. is high time it happened. We know that the vessels are old, and for Nothing has been said that changes the that reason we wrote into the contract a view of the Government that this is the clause to the effect that if one goes out of first breakthrough on the problem of northern service it must be replaced with another of transport. We will never develop the North at least equal capacity. That requirement is with too few ports being serviced, with too supported by the tenderer's cash bond. As infrequent a shipping service, and at too high far as is humanly possible, we tried to think a freight rate. of every hazard and provide a safeguard against it in a contract which has teeth and On every one of these counts the new under which the Government can operate if service is an improvement. It services more there is any departure from it by the con­ ports, and services them at half the interval, tractor. and while it is true that the reduction in freight rate from Brisbane to Thursday Island Mr. Hanson: Would you like to go across is trifling, the reduction from Cairns to to Thursday Island in one of those ships in Thursday Island is quite material. a blow? The argument of the Leader of the Opposi­ Mr. HILEY: Quite clearly there is no tion in relation to that was extraordinary. passenger requirement. One of the regret­ He acknowledged that the advantage from table features is that tourists will no longer Cairns of £3 13s. a ton was material, but be able to go to Thursday Island by ship. said it should have been £6 18s. a ton. Quite frankly, the Government would have Mr. Melloy: Previously there was a full been delighted had it received a tender giv­ boat every trip. ing a reduction of £6 18s. a ton, but we Mr. HILEY: I know, but the vast majority got a tender which gave a reduction of only of people travel to and from Thursday Island £3 13s. a ton. What was the hon. gentle­ by air. We felt that there was no particular man's argument? vVas it that we should not reason why we should ask the people living have taken the £3 13s. but should have taken on Thursday Island and beyond Portland the tender that offered no reduction at all? Roads, Marina Plains, and Cooktown, to What sort of argument is that to present to accept higher fr-eight charges, and ask the this House? It must be remembered, too, that there is an additional £30,000 as subsidy. taxpayers to contribute £30,000 by way of subsidy merely because this ship carried a few The plain fact of the matter, as my col­ passengers. We saw no present need to pro­ league from Mulgrave pointed out, is that vide for passenger traffic, and it was not the high percentage of physical requirement required of the tenderer. I do not expect that 116 Appropriation Bill No. I [ASSEMBLY] Questions either vessel will carry any passengers. Occasionally one may be carried as a guest, but heaven knows where he will be put. There are no facilities for the carrying of passengers. Mr. Adair: John Burke has never carried passengers from Thursday Island at any time. Mr. HILEY: No. No-one could suggest that the economy of Thursday Island depended on the spending of a dozen pas­ sengers from a vessd once a month. Let us be serious about it. The Government never intended to protect passenger traffic because we felt that was not a valid argu­ ment. We were concerned with providing the people of Thursday Island with a more frequent transport service at a lower cost. We believe that that is what we will succeed in doing. The reduction in costs is not as dramatic as I would have liked to see. I still believe that people living in the far-flung outposts suffer great disabilities. Those of us who live in the large cities on the coast do not know how fortunate we are. All our efforts should be directed towards helping those who live in the Far West and the Far North. We have shown some evidence of trying to do that. In our approach to probate and succes­ sion duties the House will remember the very generous concessions made to people who invest capital in the Far North and live there. They can obtain rebates of up to half the total duty payable. Recently we felt that we should start to make some attack on the problem of pro­ viding improved freight services. Only time will show the extent to which we have been successful. We are not blind to some of the hazards. We have endeavoured to meet them by clauses inserted in the contract, and we have made the contractor support his contract with a cash bond from his bankers. We will be watching the whole matter closely and will be on the alert for any deficiencies and eager to do what is necessary to offset any disabilities that the people in the North might suffer. There is nothing for which to apologise in our efforts in this matter. We believe that what has been done will be helpful and a useful step forward. Motion (Mr. Hiley) agreed to.

COMMITIEE (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Hooper, Greenslopes, in the chair.) Clauses 1 to 4, both inclusive, and preamble, as read, agreed to. Bill reported, without amendment.

TmRD READING Bill, on motion of Mr. Hiley, read a third time. The House adjourned at 9.12 p.m.