Dáil Éireann
Total Page:16
File Type:pdf, Size:1020Kb
Vol. 994 Wednesday, No. 6 8 July 2020 DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DÁIL ÉIREANN Insert Date Here 08/07/2020A00100Gnó na Dála - Business of Dáil 540 08/07/2020A00400Microenterprise Loan Fund (Amendment) Bill 2020: Second Stage (Resumed) 540 08/07/2020K00200Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders’ Questions 558 08/07/2020N00500Ceisteanna ar Reachtaíocht a Gealladh - Questions on Promised Legislation 565 08/07/2020X00100Microenterprise Loan Fund (Amendment) Bill 2020: Second Stage (Resumed) 574 08/07/2020DD00700Microenterprise Loan Fund (Amendment) Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages 589 08/07/2020KK00100Rent and Mortgage Arrears: Motion [Private Members] 597 08/07/2020WW00400Ábhair Shaincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Matters 624 08/07/2020WW00600Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate 625 08/07/2020WW00700Covid-19 Pandemic Supports 625 08/07/2020XX00450Covid-19 Pandemic Supports 629 08/07/2020ZZ00250Special Areas of Conservation ������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������632 DÁIL ÉIREANN Dé Céadaoin, 8 Iúil 2020 Wednesday, 8 July 2020 Chuaigh an Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh) i gceannas ar 1030 am Paidir. Prayer. 08/07/2020A00100Gnó na Dála - Business of Dáil 08/07/2020A00200Acting Chairman (Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh): Táimid ag tosú arís ar an mBille um an gCiste Iasachta do Mhionfhiontair (Leasú), 2020 Glaoim ar an bPríomh-Aoire ar dtús mar tá moladh aige 08/07/2020A00300Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Dara Calleary): Go raibh maith agat a Chathaoirligh It is proposed notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders or the Order of the Dáil of yes- terday that in relation to Second Stage of the Microenterprise Loan Fund (Amendment) Bill 2020 if there are no speakers offering before 12 noon the debate shall be adjourned; the House shall suspend until 12 noon today and the proceedings on Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion no later than 630 pm 08/07/2020A00350Acting Chairman (Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh): An bhfuil aon duine ag cur in a gcoinne? Níl Mar sin, tá sé glactha ag an Teach 08/07/2020A00400Microenterprise Loan Fund (Amendment) Bill 2020: Second Stage (Resumed) Question again proposed: “That the Bill now be read a Second Time” 08/07/2020A00600Acting Chairman (Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh): I call Deputy MacSharry 08/07/2020A00700Deputy Marc MacSharry: I am grateful for the opportunity to make a few points about finance initiatives that are needed to support business. There has been much talk over the past number of months about the need to support small business in particular and the talk has been encouraging from all sides We now have a Government in place Indeed, it was remiss of me not to wish the Government well and wish the Minister of State, Deputy English, who is with us this morning, and all his colleagues well and Godspeed in their very difficult job in the months 540 8 July 2020 ahead I have concerns about the finance initiatives. Indeed, the Minister of State will have seen the various business organisations, in particular ISME, Chambers Ireland, IBEC and others, state that it encourages borrowing that is arguably extremely dangerous at this time There is no question but that many businesses have been effectively wiped out and have their doors closed throughout this period That has had an enormous impact on our society and economy and on employment and so on However, when we say to people who are already on the rack that we are going to enable them to borrow, that is not a good precedent to set The other aspect of this is that the way we underwrite these loans and the way the SBCI money in particular is distrib- uted is through our existing bank base As we learned to our expense and to much frustration across political parties and indeed society, the banks’ focus is on the bottom line They must be profitable. We have moneys being made available to us at, I think, a minus percentage rate but by the time that gets to an SME farmer, shopkeeper, fisherman or carpenter, quite a number of percent- age points have been added on, effectively to give profits to banks which are already profitable. It is sort of a three-card trick to say “live horse and you will get grass” We know businesses have been wiped out this year In particular in the tourism and hospitality world, even if ev- erything was opened up, consumer sentiment is not such that those businesses would be in a position to recoup the losses they have had or to make their business model work with lowered capacity and turnover levels and the reduction in profitability that is going result from that. I would have much preferred Ireland, as a State, replicate the proven models that were in- troduced in the past, such as the Agricultural Credit Corporation, ACC, for funding agriculture and farming activity and the Industrial Credit Corporation, ICC, for funding industrial and commercial activity Instead we have allowed the pillar banks to do this As I said, the pillar banks, even when we had public interest directors on their boards, were in a position to serve only their shareholders whose only modus operandi is profitability. That is good for them but, as a State, it is wrong that we are facilitating that What would have been much better is 20 to 25 good underwriters with a State institution lending to them Instead we have this bureaucratic group of levels, through Microfinance Ireland, SBCI, the Department, the pillar banks and the underwriters Eventually the punter gets to borrow money at 4% or 5%, which carries a very substantial premium over the amount we, as a country, are getting the money for What we are doing is getting peace of mind politically by thinking we are facilitating and supporting small enterprise when the truth is that all this is really doing is enabling the better-heeled to get on while ensuring those who genuinely need support hit the wall This is a big concern for me be- cause we are encouraging people to strangle themselves with debt in what is already a desperate situation for most I represent the constituency of Sligo-North Leitrim We are responsible for parts of south County Donegal and north County Roscommon It is a part of the country where only two sec- tors really contribute in a major way to our society. That is not to take away from all the others, but obviously tourism and hospitality and agriculture are our two major pursuits. While wish- ing the Minister of State and all of our colleagues well and Godspeed in the months ahead, I hope their focus can be on that It is a little bit disheartening that tourism, for example, is buried in a Department with other things Many tourism operators have reached out and made contact with, I am sure, all Members in constituencies where it is a vital component of economic activ- ity to protest that no measures have come forward, other than to strangle themselves with debt while we make the banks more profitable. Other than that they are on their own. Through me- 541 Dáil Éireann dia briefings it is becoming evident from officials, politicians, Ministers or whoever that some businesses may not survive, so in many ways we are throwing in the towel already If one looks at the measures introduced to support business in France, on commercial rents it has what I think is called the 40:40:20 scheme where the state picked up around 40% of the commercial rent The landlord would take a 20% reduction and the tenant would pay 40% We did not nothing like that Many people are already strangled by having to pay commercial rents to landlords with mortgage commitments and they have found themselves in a position where they just cannot afford to reopen. The business models of cafés, restaurants, bars and hotels operated based on 60% to 80% occupancy and they are now operating at 25% with social dis- tancing rules and so on. We use terminology such as “helicopter money” or “direct financing” and the €1 trillion in loans and direct grants announced at a higher level in Brussels was wel- come, but we are not seeing that in the direct grants here People can borrow and we are adding a number of percentage points for handling fees or whatever we are calling them in order to be profitable, but the reality is we are not getting the hard cash to the people who need it to help them survive this That is what is needed Covid is probably going to be around for many years and a loan is not going to cut it We are going to have to directly finance and support businesses. While I will obviously not be voting against the legislation, if this is the whole picture we are going nowhere It is designed to facili- tate the better heeled to borrow and expand but the average Joe SME does not have a prayer of getting this kind of money In order to get the Brexit loan, which is more or less what the Covid one was based on, the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland, SBCI, was asked to define a business plan that was visionary and reinvented the wheel, for want of a better expression That is just not acceptable because before Covid all or many of these