Nordic American Voices Nordic Heritage Museum

Interview of Janet Ruud February 15, 2014 Pacific Lutheran University Tacoma, Washington

Interviewers: Arnfridur Sigurdardottir; Janice Bogren

Affa Sigurdardottir: [0:01] This is an interview for the Nordic American Voices oral history project. Today is February 15, 2014, and we will be interviewing Janet Ruud. How do you say it?

Janet Ruud: [0:18] Ruud.

Affa: [0:19] Ruud.

Janet: [0:19] Yeah.

Affa: [0:20] R-U-U-D.

Janet: [0:21] It’s Ruud.

Affa: [0:22] Ruud, yeah. I’d rather have it correct. We are at the Pacific Lutheran University in Tacoma, Washington. My name is Arnfridur Sigurdardottir, and with me is…

Janice Bogren: [0:33] Janice Bogren.

Affa: [0:35] So, Janet.

Janet: [0:40] Yes.

Affa: [0:41] So, I’m just going to let you start, and...

Janet: [0:45] Okay. Well, I am one hundred percent Norwegian, which is kind of unusual, not having parents who were born in - neither of my parents. But they managed to somehow find each other- my mother having been born in Hollywood, California, and my dad in Minnesota. It’s interesting how these two one hundred percent Norwegians ended up marrying each other.

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[1:24] So my mother’s mother came from Norway when she was just sixteen. And the reason she came… and she came from the… well, not far from Alesund, in the Sunnmøre region of Norway. Actually the town where she was born, Linge, is her maiden name. Linge. So that’s where she was born. It’s near Valldal.

Affa: [2:05] And what was her full name?

Janet: [2:08] Her name was Christine Linge Lee. My grandfather’s last name was Lee. Anyway, so she we know quite a bit about. She came because… So, the tradition says when her father remarried… Her mother passed away, and when her father remarried, the stepmother was not particularly nice to the children of the first wife.

[2:47] And one of my grandmother’s jobs was to go down to the fjord with a bucket and fill it with sand and bring it back up to the house, up the side of the hill, and scrub the floors with the sand. And I don’t know if that’s true or not, but there must be a kernel of truth in it somewhere. She just wasn’t treated maybe as well as she could or should have been.

[3:25] One of her brothers had already been to the , so he went back to Norway. Ivar is his name. And he went and got her and brought her back to Minnesota first. She had to have a place to go in the United States. She came through Ellis Island, and I have the ship manifest from that, so I know for sure that my grandmother Christine Linge was not an anarchist. [Laughter] Because that was on the… I just think that’s funny that they would have that column on the form. “Were you an anarchist?” or “Are you an anarchist?” I wonder how many people said, “Oh, yeah.” [Laughter]

[4:19] But she only lived in Minnesota for a short while, because her brother had already been to California. So she moved to California- southern California- Los Angeles. And that’s where she met my grandfather, Otis Lee, who was also not born in Norway. He had been born in Wisconsin. But his parents were from Hallingdal. And we’re not really sure exactly about what his heritage is. We know a little but where we think he might have been from, but haven’t looked hard enough, I guess, to find out too much more about it.

[5:18] But we know all about my grandmother and her sisters and half-sisters and half-brothers. And we still are in contact with them and visit them. And they’re my favorite people in Norway. Well, I shouldn’t say that, because I have favorite people everywhere. But there’s a very… Well, one of my mother’s cousins lives in Oslo. She’s from the second wife, so she’s kind of a half-cousin. Anyway. But she’s my closest relative in Norway. So she has told some stories to us, too, you know, about what things were like when grandma came over here.

[6:14] But when she did… When my grandmother came here and lived in Los Angeles, met my grandfather, and he and she both went to Lutheran Church in Los Angeles- Our Savior’s Lutheran.

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Every once in a while I still run into somebody who knew my grandparents. Every once in a while. I’ll say, yeah- the name of my grandparents and where they’re from. Inevitably, somebody would say, “Oh, Mrs. Lee! I knew Mrs. Lee. She was the flower lady at our Savior’s Lutheran.” [Laughter]

[7:02] And I just loved her accent. And we kids… I just love hearing that other people loved her just the same way we did. And my grandfather was a very, very soft-spoken, quiet man; my grandmother very vivacious, outgoing, fun. My grandfather worked for a time for Walt Disney Studios and built… He was a carpenter, and he built a ship… a model of a ship for the movie 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.

[7:43] So when Disneyland opened in the fifties and we went there, we were so proud, because one of the very first exhibits there at Disneyland was about that movie. And there was our grandfather’s ship right there. And Disney still has the ship in their archives. We have tried to get it back. They won’t give it up. That’s the way that goes.

[8:14] So, my grandfather built the house that they lived in in Hollywood. And it’s still there. I’ve gone back to check on it to make sure it’s still there. And it’s just a lovely home, full of lots of good memories. So then my mom grew up there with three siblings- two sisters and a brother. She was the second of the four. Her name is Marian Louise Lee. And of course she took my dad’s last name when she got married. I feel like I’m blessed, because my mother’s maiden name is my middle name, and I still have my maiden name, Ruud, for my last name, so I have both sides of my family in my name.

[9:12] What else… Oh… So, there’s my grandfather and grandmother and the kids. My mom grows up and goes to Our Savior’s Lutheran Church. And my dad, who had been born in Minnesota- one of nine children- had moved out to California to look for work. He had gone to junior college and University of Minnesota. He wasn’t really sure what he wanted to do with his life, so he went out to California.

[9:53] And he said that he joined the choir at Our Savior’s Lutheran Church. And there in the alto section was the most beautiful woman. He fell in love with her immediately. And that was my mom. So that’s how they met. And of course, who knows how much of that is true, but I like to think it is, because my dad was that kind of a guy. He was very, very outgoing.

[10:24] He’s the one who I inherited my tremor from. Also, I believe I inherited certain issues I have with my vocal chords, where I drop ends of words sometimes. Towards the end of his life, he was having those same issues. And we didn’t know what it was. But now we know, because I have it, and I’ve been diagnosed. So, thanks a lot, Dad.

[10:57] But he was a great speaker. He was a Lutheran pastor. He eventually took my mom back to Minnesota so he could go to seminary in -St. Paul- to Luther Seminary. And then that’s

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where they had [five of their six children], in Minnesota. We were all born there. We moved from there to California- back to California, but to the Bay Area- San Jose- when I was ten years old. My dad started a mission church in San Jose.

[11:43] So that was a very interesting life as a child to go from a small town in Minnesota to big city California. It was the first time I ever had an avocado, and pomegranate and so on. Some of my aunts and uncles who still lived in southern California actually had lemon trees and orange trees and an avocado tree in their backyard. That was pretty cool to be living in that state. I really liked it, and so did my parents.

[12:27] My dad, even though he was born in Minnesota, his mom- my grandmother on my dad’s side- her name was Anna Norum. Anna Olina Norum. Sometimes people see that name, and they say, “Oh, no rum.” [Laughter] Yeah. So I have interesting names people have to deal with. But anyway, that’s my grandmother’s maiden name- Norum. We have lots and lots of Norum relatives in Norway still, on the family farm north of Trondheim. It’s in Inderøy, which is not too far north of Trondheim. And a very beautiful area.

[13:34] The first time I went to that farm and saw where my own grandmother had been born, and saw the cradle in which she had slept… And I’m sure many Americans will say the same thing, having been born in the United States- the first time going to Norway and seeing all those places, and meeting those people, is such a moving, emotional experience. It feels like… wow. It’s like there’s something of this place in your genetic heritage- that you remember it somehow. And you feel… At least I felt really at home, both with my father’s relatives, and my mom’s.

[14:32] And I found out… The first time I went to Norway, I was twenty-two. Twenty-two. I had gone to Norway to go to school in , at Nansenskolen. My Norwegian professor here at PLU had suggested it. I was in graduate school at the time in Eugene, Oregon. But Auden Toven, who was my professor here said, “There’s really a great program in Lillehammer. You should go there.” So between my two graduate years in the summer, I went to Norway.

[15:19] And that’s where I found out that even though my friends used to think it was pretty weird, I have always grown up saying “yah!” sometimes. Just in conversations. I would say something and go “yah!”And my friends would say, “What are you doing? Are you sick? Is there something wrong?” And I would tell them, “No. I don’t know. It’s just what I do.”

[15:56] And then I go and visit my relatives the first time, talking with them in Norwegian. I hear one of them go “yah!” And I said, “Oh, my gosh! No wonder I say that! Now I know!” I really have a reason why I say that that way. So that was pretty fun.

[16:22] And those relatives on my mother’s mother’s side- they actually told me that I reminded them of my grandmother, because they knew her before she came to the United States. Even, they

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said, in the cadence of the way I speak. Even when I was speaking English, they still thought I sounded like her. So it’s just kind of… It’s very special.

Affa: [16:56] Did you know some Norwegian before you went over there?

Janet: [17:00] Yes. I had taken Norwegian classes here at PLU. My parents did not speak Norwegian much. My dad more than my mom, but… Because, like many immigrants, their parents did not want their children to learn Norwegian. They wanted them to learn English and be American. And it’s sad, you know, because they could have easily learned both.

[17:34] I’m a linguist myself. I studied German. That’s what I have a master’s degree in, is the German language. And I also speak Norwegian and some Spanish. And I tell my students… I’m retired now, but I would tell my students, “Just tell your parents you want to learn their language. If your parents have come from another country to live in the United States, tell them you want to learn their language. You want to learn both, because that’s part of your heritage.”

[18:17] I don’t know if I made an impression on anyone to actually do that, but I hope so, because I had a lot of students whose parents had immigrated here. I taught at Jason Lee Middle School here in Tacoma. It’s on the Hilltop. A lot of immigrants have always lived in that part of Tacoma. Norwegians lived there- Italians, Germans, and now more Asian countries, and Russia, and Ukraine. So I had students from all kinds of different ethnic backgrounds. I really think that’s important.

Affa: [19:05] Your father’s family- do you know why they came over here?

Janet: [19:10] I can only imagine, because my father’s mother was the youngest of nine children. And being the youngest, you know, there just wasn’t much for her in Norway anymore. And the same with some of her siblings, a couple of whom immigrated to Canada, to Saskatchewan, and some to British Columbia. So we have those Norum relatives scattered all over the world, pretty much.

[19:56] I just went and visited one of them not too long ago whom I had never met before, in Charlottesville, Virginia. It’s just fun. I love meeting these people. And I think that because my father’s mother’s family was in farming, I think they went to the Midwest just like a lot of people who wanted to farm. And they got there and the land was flat. Wow. You can imagine what they thought as opposed to Norway, where you have to farm on a forty-degree angle sometimes.

[20:46] So they ended up there, and I know that my father’s father was born in Wisconsin, which is kind of coincidental, since my mother’s father was also born in Wisconsin. So it’s… I don’t know exactly where. I don’t know too much about either of my grandfathers. My father’s father, the one thing I know is that the original Ruud farm no longer exists, but it was in Hallingdal, in Nesbyen, which is just a small town, but there’s a river there.

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[21:41] And there was a gentleman whom I made contact with, who I thought could possibly be somebody who would know something. I can’t remember how I even found his name, but I went to Norway and went to Hallingdal and visited this gentleman. And it turns out that his farm is on property that’s right next to what used to be the Ruud farm. And they still call it Ruud- I mean, the place name- they still call it that.

[22:19] So he and I went to a walk over to that property and saw just some leftover stairs- part of stairs that probably had gone into a cellar or something- part of the farmhouse. I don’t know. That was fun to be there, too. But there isn’t any of his family left in Norway that I know of. There was a great flood in the mid-1800s I guess through that part of Hallingdal, and the farm was right on that river that flooded. That was it. They left. That’s the story- is that the Ruuds just left because they were flooded out. But anyway…

Affa: [23:16] So, were you brought up with Norwegian food, or…

Janet: [23:22] Yes. Yeah. And music. Like at Christmas, we sang Christmas songs. My mom always made a traditional Christmas meal of lutefisk for my dad. And I know there are a lot of places in Norway where they don’t eat lutefisk. But my family did. My Norum relatives still eat lutefisk. Even in Trondheim now, they have restaurants that feature lutefisk dinners at Christmastime. [Laughter] You know. I never did get to like it, though. Every year I would have a little bit, just to please my dad. And I still do. I go to the lutefisk dinner and put lutefisk on my plate and say, “Okay, Dad. This is for you.” [Laughter]

[24:24] But I like most of the other Norwegian food, like all kids with . My mother made potetlefse, and we learned how to make it. That’s one tradition I’m passing along to my daughter-in- law, who is not at all Norwegian, but she learned to make lefse from me, and now we have a regular… “Okay, when are we going to make lefse?” And my sister and her daughter, and I and my daughter-in-law, and my son and my other son, and his girlfriend- we all go out to my sister’s and make lefse.

[25:12] And krumkake- my children liked to help me make krumkake when they were little. Now my granddaughter is learning to make all the Norwegian cookies, because she goes with me to Daughters of Norway events. My Daughters of Norway lodge here in Tacoma- Embla- we have a Nordic Festival, and we make lots and lots of cookies for it. And my granddaughter comes to help make the cookies. She loves it; just absolutely loves it. She helps.

[25:53] And she’s seven years old, and she’s been helping for three years. I gave her a rolling pin and a blob of lefse dough, too, when she was four, because she wanted to help make lefse. And I gave her her own place to roll it out, and we all helped her with the flour, and she would roll it out, and roll it out, and had a great time. And we would cook hers on the griddle.

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Affa: [26:26] That’s wonderful.

Janet: [26:27] Yeah. And now she’s getting really good at it, too. Every year her lefse gets a little bit better.

Affa: [26:34] Great. She’s going to be a master.

Janet: [26:35] [Laughter] Yeah.

Affa: [26:38] So, your Christmas… did you celebrate like a Scandinavian Christmas?

Janet: [26:44] Yes.

Affa: [26:46] Norwegian?

Janet: [26:47] Yes. We had Christmas Eve. That was it. We never had stockings, or had a big deal with Santa Claus. And it wasn’t that we didn’t know, because we knew all kinds of kids who had Santa Claus, and they got stuff from Santa Claus on Christmas morning. And we never did. But it didn’t matter. I never, ever felt deprived as a child, because I didn’t know Santa. [Laughter]

[27:24] Our Christmas Eve was so wonderful, and we shared our gifts. Of course, my dad, being a pastor- we were at church, and then we went to church on Christmas Day, and had a big Christmas Day dinner. But Christmas Eve was always lutefisk, and then pork roast for those of us who wouldn’t eat the lutefisk. We had to have that traditional food from my mom’s family.

Affa: [27:59] Did you have any other traditions like for Easter, or seventeenth of May?

Janet: [28:04] Well, no, not particularly. At least from what I remember, it was Christmas that was the biggest, and where we learned a couple songs like “Jeg er så glad hver julekveld.” I remember thinking to myself when I was probably six or seven… And I was thinking, “Why do they have a Norwegian song about Jesus’ foot?” Because of the line that says “for da ble Jesus født.” And I knew the words, and I recognized “Jesus” was Jesus, and I thought they were singing about Jesus’ foot.

[28:55] Yeah. [Laughter] So you know, I’m glad I learned Norwegian. Actually, my dad took lessons in Norwegian after he became an adult, too. And at one of the family reunions… He and my mother went to a family reunion in Norway. And he delivered a sermon at the Sunday service in both Norwegian and English, translating, so everybody who was there knew what he said. What a job that was for him, I tell you.

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Affa: [29:41] So, do you have reunions here in the States and in Norway?

Janet: [29:46] Yeah. Well, the most recent reunion was in Norway, and that was in 2005, I think. So I think there will be another one in 2015 in Norway. We used to have the Norum reunions every other year, somewhere in the United States or Canada, depending on who would volunteer to host the reunion. I think I was the last one to host a reunion in the United States, in 2001, maybe. I think that’s what it was. I had just volunteered to host it, and I had it here at PLU.

[30:42] Yeah, because in the summertime, there’s housing, and food, and the Scandinavian Cultural Center, where we had meetings and gatherings, and just sat around and talked, and had coffee. It was wonderful, really wonderful. But there’s so many of us now that I think people are afraid to host a reunion because it’s so much work. And it is.

Affa: [31:17] Are you very much involved in the Scandinavian Center here?

Janet: [31:21] Yes. I have been a member of the Scandinavian Cultural Center council since before it was built- since before the space was converted into the Scandinavian Center. So that was 1988, I think, is when I joined the council. And then for the grand opening in 1989 I was on the committee for the celebration that went into that. And my family on my mother’s side- all of the cousins, aunts, uncles, all helped and contributed money so the Scandinavian Center could be built.

Affa: [32:12] Do you know how it came about that they built it or they decided to build it?

Janet: [32:18] Because they always had Norwegian taught here at PLU. And because PLU was founded by Norwegians, it’s always been a part of PLU’s fiber, heritage. And that reminds me- my grandfather worked here. I’ll get back to that in a minute.

Affa: [32:40] Yeah.

Janet: [32:41] So, the Norwegian professor… gosh. It’s been… A long time ago, they started… Somebody just had this idea, well, we should have some sort of a Scandinavian Center on campus or off, just somewhere around here, because of the large Scandinavian population and the history of PLU. So it finally came into being in 1989. The original plan was to build off-campus, but somewhere nearby.

[33:30] And then it turned out that the space in this building, in the university center, there was a space… It was a gravel pit. It really was. There were a few practice rooms there, where kids could go in and practice piano, or whatever. But other than that, I mean, I was in there as a student, and I had known it was a gravel pit. And somebody suggested, well, maybe we should start thinking about having it on-campus. So it became a partner adventure with the university. And that’s how it’s worked.

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[34:17] The community donated money to have it built, and would not have been able to build it when we did had it not been for PLU and the space here at PLU that we use. And so now it is a dual space. It’s both the Scandinavian Cultural Center space- a community space where we have exhibits and open hours, and programs, and classes. And it’s also a space that is treasured by the university, and used for banquets. The president’s office will often use it when there’s a regent’s meeting because it is the nicest space on the campus.

Affa: [35:20] So it’s not a separate identity.

Janet: [35:23] No.

Affa: [35:23] It is a part of the university.

Janet: [35:24] It’s part of PLU. It’s a very, very unusual situation. I don’t know of any other Scandinavian center that’s like that. At California Lutheran, they’ve started a Scandinavian Center there as well, but I don’t know if they have their own building as such yet. They were originally in a library. But they’re still in the planning phase, I think, to build a bigger space. Now they have an office in a house off-campus. I’m not sure. But it was inspired by PLU, that they would have that.

Affa: [36:14] Oh, wonderful.

Janet: [36:15] Yeah. And I’m really proud of PLU. I mean, I graduated from here. But I’m proud of PLU because we have this partnership, and it’s worked. It has taken some work to make it work, but it does. And both entities contributed towards the building of the center, and both entities contributed towards keeping it going. And we’ve just... We’re working towards that. And we have an endowment fund.

Janice: [37:01] What kind of programs does the Scandinavian Cultural Center produce? What kind of…

Janet: [37:09] Well, one thing I can think of that we have coming up, is we have a duo… let’s see, violin and accordion- Finnish music. It’s two women. They’re called… oh, what’s their name? Aallotar. And they’re both very good, but they’re new at the duo together. And they’re going to be performing next month.

[37:44] And we’ve had… anytime that we can get, a musical performance or a lecture. Every year there’s a sponsored lecture that has to deal with some Scandinavian theme. And we have every year a Swedish program of some sort that’s endowed by a couple of the Scandinavian Center members. A Swedish chef was brought over one year to do a program. And these are free to people who are attending these Swedish programs. Excellent programming.

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[38:33] Last year the Swedish program was on weaving- the Ekelund weaving from Sweden. They came and presented how they make their table runners, and all the things that they make. That was very interesting, and I won a door prize. So that was… The one thing that gentleman said was, “You know, hese Ekelund items are there for you to use.” [Laughter] Don’t just hang them up on a wall, you know. There’s one that I have that’s really for drying dishes, but it’s so nice. How could I ever use it for that? But I’ll have to take his word for it and go ahead and use it, and wash it, and not just put it away.

Affa: [39:39] So, you said your father… No, your grandfather…

Janet: [39:42] Yeah, my grandfather. Yeah, my mother’s father. Having grown up down in California, his family moved up here to Puyallup at some point. I don’t remember exactly how long they lived in Puyallup, but it was long enough that my great-grandfather Knut Lee and his brother donated some land in Puyallup to build a church. And there is a church there, and now I can’t remember the name of it. It is a Lutheran church. Mountain View. Mountain View Lutheran Church. The land was donated by the Lee family to build that church on.

[40:45] And my great-grandfather Knut, I believe worked for a time at PLU, and so did my grandfather. My grandfather was a student here when it was Pacific Lutheran Academy, right shortly after… not too long after PLU started. And I think PLU started in 1890. I’m not sure. So my grandfather was a student here in the early 1900s.

Affa: [41:25] Wow.

Janet: [41:25] Yeah. So I have a lot of connection with PLU in that way, and with this part of the country. My grandfather moved back down to southern California because of the weather here. It bothered his asthma. So that’s how he ended up back down in Hollywood.

Janice: [41:54] Did either of your great-grandparents, or your grandparents, or your parents join any other Norwegian institutions, or Scandinavian?

Janet: [42:07] Well, my dad was a member of in Cupertino, California. And my mother was a charter member of the Daughters of Norway lodge that started in Cupertino, California. And I actually was part of that institution of that lodge. The woman who helped that lodge and two other ones get started in the Bay Area was a really good friend of mine. And she taught me how to help lodges get started. So then in Sons of Norway, that was one of my jobs, was organizing new lodges.

Affa: [42:54] What’s her name?

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Janet: [42:55] Florence Buck. My friend’s name.

Affa: [42:57] Yeah. So, yeah, tell us a little bit about the Daughters of Norway and your work with them.

Janet: [43:03] Oh, boy. Well, I’ve been a member of Daughters of Norway for thirty-one years. My son Shey was born… I was pregnant when I joined. And I remember that really well, because I was visibly pregnant, and at that time, when you joined the Daughters of Norway it was a big deal. And a girlfriend and I were both great with child. [Laughter] We both remember becoming initiated as members of Embla Lodge, and being marched around the room where we were initiated. It’s like being paraded in front of the audience, you know. [Laughter]

[43:58] But it was great fun, and I enjoyed the women that I met, and so I stayed a member even after both children were born, and during their growing up years. I was president of my lodge here. And then I was also president of the grand lodge of the Daughters of Norway, which is the national organization- 1996 to ’98.

[44:27] And I don’t know how I did that, because I was still working at that time, and teaching, and still, I was president of Daughters of Norway, organizing lodges, and I was on the Scandinavian Cultural Center council here at PLU, and church choir. [Laughter] I did a lot of things. And now I’m retired, and I’m way busier than ever. So I don’t know how I did it before, but anyway, I did. And it was fun. And that’s why I still help with organizing lodges for Daughters of Norway. I’m the official organizational consultant.

Janice: [45:22] Do you have a secret as to how to organize a lodge? What special knowledge do you have?

Janet: [45:33] Well, you have to have some fun. You have to show women that it’s fun to be a member of, and that the women are just awesome. One of the things I would tell when I was meeting with a group of women who wanted to start a lodge, or were thinking about it… And it’s absolutely true that most of my friends right now in my life- women friends- are ones that I’ve met through Daughters of Norway. If I had to make a list, that’s what… And they’re just wonderful people.

Affa: [46:20] So are there still new lodges? Because it seems like most organizations are kind of dwindling.

Janet: [46:27] Yes, it does. But not Daughters of Norway. We are actually expanding. We have new lodges coming in all the time. On an annual basis, at least. This year… I don’t know if I should reveal this or not, but I will. [Laughter] The new one is going to start in Fargo, North Dakota this year. We used to have many, many lodges in the Midwest. There was a whole organization,

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Daughters of Norway, and there were seventy-some lodges scattered all over the Midwest and the east coast as well.

[47:18] Then there was the Daughters of Norway on the Pacific coast, and that was a separate organization. They never were part of the same origin, or whatever, because of the distance between, I guess. And they were never part of the Sons of Norway. They were always an independent group- independent of the Sons of Norway, because the women wanted to do things their own way.

[47:54] And that was at the beginning of the 1900s. In fact, the first lodge ever was one formed in Minneapolis in 1897. Throughout the years, the Sons of Norway eventually began admitting women as members, and then they began encouraging Daughters of Norway lodges to merge with the Sons of Norway.

[48:33] After a lot of controversy and discussion and all kinds of stuff, the lodges of the Midwest group Daughters of Norway- the whole organization- merged with the Sons of Norway. And therefore the Daughters of Norway lodges all disappeared, because they just weren’t there anymore.

[49:03] So now we’re starting… We women on the west coast… And I say, “we women,” even though I wasn’t alive then. [Laughter] But we always said no, when the Sons of Norway asked us to merge. And we’re glad that we did, because we like being just women. We just… and we’re a different organization.

[49:32] I’m a member of Sons of Norway, too. It’s a different organization. The Sons of Norway has a lot more… How shall I put it? Events that are for families or couples… more social, maybe. At least some. And I know all Sons of Norway lodges are not the same.

[50:09] Daughters of Norway lodges all have a program every month they meet. That’s part of what we do. We have a cultural program. We don’t have dances or a lot of stuff that the Sons of Norway does. So both organizations complement each other, because they each provide a different look at the heritage.

[50:43] And I think that’s probably why the Daughters of Norway is expanding, is because we have women joining now who really have not learned from their own parents or grandparents much about their heritage. I feel like I knew a lot already. I’ve learned way more since I joined. But these are young women. They don’t know, and we teach them. We have cooking classes, and we have… like I said, a program every month.

[51:27] We have lecturers. We have university professors come and talk to us. We’ve had programs… There’s a women who does history in person, and she portrays different historical personages. She does a really wonderful presentation on Thea Foss, who was the beginner of Foss tugboats and the whole Foss company. Thea- her name was Thea Foss- she was the first secretary of

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our Daughters of Norway lodge here in Tacoma. So… I could go on and on. I’m sorry. [Laughter]

Affa: [52:19] No, that’s good. Good.

Janet: [52:21] [Laughter] No, I just… It’s just a really, really wonderful organization. We’re having our Daughters of Norway convention this summer- July 17, 18, and 19 in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And that lodge in Minneapolis is a brand-new lodge. It’s only been there for two years. The one that started in 1897- that’s one that disappeared in about 1950, I want to say, when the Daughters and Sons merged.

[53:08] So after that happened- when the Daughters and Sons in the Midwest merged, the Daughters of Norway on the Pacific coast- which was the official name of the group on the Pacific coast- you had to have Døtre av Norge på stille Havs Kysten. That was the whole name. But when the other organizations disappeared then, we dropped the Pacific coast part, and just became Daughters of Norway.

[53:42] We even had a couple of lodges that were… I don’t know exactly how it happened. One for sure that started out as a part of the Midwest Daughters of Norway. The one that’s in Everett- originally started out as being in the Midwest Daughters of Norway. I don’t know why. Maybe somebody from Minnesota moved out here and just wanted to keep that connection. But when the merger happened in the Midwest, then that lodge in Everett petitioned to the Daughters of Norway on the Pacific coast to become a part of our organization here. And they got to keep their own lodge number.

Affa: [54:41] So how many lodges are in this area? Everett, , Tacoma?

Janet: [54:46] Oh, boy. There are several. I’d have to…

Affa: [54:51] Yeah.

Janet: [54:52] Whidbey Island, Bellingham, Everett, Seattle, Bellevue, Tacoma, Poulsbo, Olympia… I’m probably forgetting somebody.

Affa: [55:09] That’s a lot, though.

Janet: [55:10] Yeah, it is. The first lodge that I actually started myself was the one in Whidbey Island. That was really fun. And then I went on to help other lodges get going. Carson City, Nevada is another one.

Affa: [55:35] Do you know how many you’ve started?

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Janet: [55:39] I don’t know. I think ten? But I’d have to write them all down to remember.

Affa: [55:44] Right.

Janet: [55:44] Yeah. The most recent one was in Junction City, Oregon. Let’s see, this is 2014. That was 2012, just two years ago. Yeah. I helped them start a lodge there in Junction City. It’s in the Willamette Valley, so they have members who live in Eugene, and Springfield, and Corvallis, and other towns in that area.

Affa: [56:19] So interesting.

Janet: [56:20] Yeah.

Janice: [56:21] I have written… It’s written down here: Director, Peace Prize, Greater Tacoma. What is that?

Janet: [56:28] Oh, yes. [Laughter] That’s another one of my activities. It’s actually… The greater Tacoma peace prize is an entity that is supported by the Scandinavian Cultural Center council and PLU, because two of the directors are affiliated with PLU. There are six of us on the committee. It was started by Tom Heavey ten years ago. We’re having… Our tenth laureate will be this year, 2014.

[57:10] And it was his idea that you don’t have to be world renowned to be a peace activist- to be recognized for peace. And because Norway is known for its peace efforts, and successes, and for the Nobel Peace Prize, Tom’s idea was to sort of model ourselves after the Nobel Peace Prize. That’s why we have a six-member committee. The Nobel also has a six-member committee- five of whom are voting members, and one of who is… I don’t know what his title is- director. But he doesn’t vote. He is just the leader of the committee.

[58:08] So we have six members, and our bylaws state that two of the members have to be members of Embla Lodge #2, Daughters of Norway, and two members have to members of Norden Lodge #2, Sons of Norway. And two of the members have to be affiliated with Pacific Lutheran University in some way. One of the Norwegian professors was on the committee for a while. And the previous director of the Scandinavian Cultural Center is one of our committee members.

[58:52] So we have these three organizations that kind of puts this together. And we send our recipient… Part of our prize- the Tacoma Peace Prize- is a trip to Norway for two people to attend the events that are surrounding the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize.

[59:24] So for example, coming up on February 23, we are going to have an event that we are calling Soup with Sallie because our 2013 laureate Sallie Shawl just returned from being in Norway in December, having been invited to the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony. We work with people in Oslo

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with various organizations there to make arrangements for our laureate to go to the Nobel Institute, to go to the ceremony for the Nobel Peace Prize whenever possible. We don’t manage it every year, but almost.

[1:00:15] For example, when Barack Obama was the Nobel laureate, there was no way we were going to get ours into the ceremony, because there were too many Barack supporters there. [Laughter] He had first dibs on all the seats. [Laughter] But it’s been such a wonderful, wonderful thing to happen, because we’ve recognized so many different people over these last ten years.

[1:00:46] Sallie Shawl is definitely a person who is a peace activist. She belongs to a group called People For Peace, Justice, and Healing. She belongs to a Jewish-Palestinian group, trying to bring those peoples together. What a job that would be. But Sally is going to present a little report, I guess you could say, about her trip- her recent trip to Norway and to the Peace Prize Ceremony on February 23. And it’s a luncheon, so that’s why we’re calling it Soup with Sallie.

Affa: [1:01:33] So how do you pick the winners? Do they have to be in the area, the region?

Janet: [1:01:40] Yeah. Because it’s the Greater Tacoma Peace Prize, the recipient must be somebody who is in some way connected with the greater Tacoma area- either based here, or lives here, or lived here, or somewhere in Pierce County. It’s kind of a nebulous line. We don’t have a border around it. [Laughter]

[1:02:10] We open our nominations on January 1 every year, and they close on March 31. So right now we’re in a nomination period. We try to advertise to anybody and everybody. Any one person can make a nomination, or a group can make a nomination. And we have a website: tacomapeaceprize.org, where there’s more information and nomination forms. We also have a Facebook page.

Affa: [1:02:50] So, it doesn’t have to be world peace.

Janet: [1:02:53] No.

Affa: [1:02:54] I mean, it can just…

Janet: [1:02:55] Local.

Affa: [1:02:56] Local.

Janet: [1:02:57] Yeah. One of my most favorite recipients- Kim Ebert-Colella, has always been a volunteer in various ways with the Jesuits, for one thing, but also here in Tacoma, at her son’s elementary school. And at his elementary school, she helped the children start a peace committee.

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Affa: [1:03:29] Wow.

Janet: [1:03:30] And it was such a great story of how she’s helped these children become aware of the need for peace work and peace building, that she was the one who was chosen for our peace prize in 2012, I think. Yeah.

Affa: [1:03:57] Wonderful.

Janet: [1:03:58] That’s it. Yeah. I can’t remember the year for each one of them unless I write it down. But yeah, so there is a person who is totally local. Absolutely… I don’t know if very many people had heard ever of her, except within our circles, you know, within her religious community or the educational community. She herself is a really wonderful licensed massage therapist and spiritual kind of person.

[1:04:37] Our very first laureate was George F. Russell, who is the well-known philanthropist, who has done work all over the world, but based here in Tacoma, Pierce County, and Gig Harbor. Just a wonderful wide range of recipients. We’re always curious to see who is going to be nominated. And I know some nominations have come in, but we don’t look at them until March 31.

Affa: [1:05:20] Oh, okay.

Janet: [1:05:21] And then we look at them all together. And then we have a protocol that we go by in order to narrow down the list. We usually get on average ten to twelve nominations. I don’t know if we’ve ever gotten more than twelve… but, yeah.

Affa: [1:05:51] That’s wonderful.

Janet: [1:05:52] Yeah.

Janice: [1:05:53] Was this developed by the Norwegian community, then?

Janet: [1:05:59] Yeah.

Janice: [1:05:59] That was the beginnings of this.

Janet: [1:06:02] Yeah. We actually used the phrase that the Greater Tacoma Peace Prize was a gift to this area by the Norwegian community here.

Affa: [1:06:16] Oh, wonderful. So, they don’t have to be Norwegians, or Norwegian background, or anything, just...

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Janet: [1:06:21] No. No.

Affa: [1:06:26] I was going to go back a little bit to your childhood. You talked about music when you were growing up.

Janet: [1:06:32] Yeah.

Affa: [1:06:33] Did any of you play instruments?

Janet: [1:06:36] Oh, yes. We all took piano lessons. Of course, now I know that my piano teacher when I was little was Norwegian. I didn’t know it then. And so was my dentist. [Laughter] I didn’t know it then, but he was Norwegian, too. But yes, we all took piano, and we also learned some other musical instrument. I learned French horn. My sister learned the flute; my brother played trumpet, I believe, for a while. I still play the piano somewhat.

[1:07:18] We all sang in choirs at school at well as at church. All… well, four of my five siblings also went to PLU. My brother was in the Choir of the West. There’s always been a big musical connection for us. We were brought up listening to choral music and loving it. Symphony…

Affa: [1:07:53] Did you study anything about the Norwegian about the Norwegian composers like Grieg?

Janet: [1:07:58] I don’t know if it was any more, but we definitely heard Grieg music at home as well as other composers. So we had a good beginning in classical music as well as our own music that we liked, including The Beatles.

Affa: [1:07:24] Right.

Janet: [1:07:25] And my parents were very open, and they loved all sorts of music. I don’t think… Now that you mentioned it, I don’t think either one of them played an instrument, though. They sang. They both came from very, very musical backgrounds as far as vocal music is concerned.

Affa: [1:07:51] Did you learn any songs in Norwegian, even if you didn’t speak Norwegian?

Janet: [1:07:58] Well, the Christmas.

Affa: [1:07:59] Yeah.

Janet: [1:07:59] Yeah. Mostly just the Christmas songs. Yeah. Other than that, I didn’t learn any until I came to PLU. My Norwegian professor taught all kinds of Norwegian songs. I just loved it.

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And that’s what I remember, is the songs. I’ve often thought somebody should develop a Norwegian language-teaching program based on songs, so that people will remember, because that’s what you remember, is the music.

Affa: [1:08:42] The music, yeah.

Janet: [1:08:43] Yeah. I just went for the first time to visit Troldhaugen when I was in Norway in August with my partner, Bill. He had never been to Norway, so that was wonderful for him to be able to be there and see why I think it’s such a wonderful place. [Laughter]

Janice: [1:10:05] Did you play Wedding at Troldhaugen?

Janet: [1:10:07] I can’t play that. No. That’s a little difficult. But I did have that music played at… Well, I was married twice, the first time for seventeen years. My two children are from that marriage. And then I had a very brief marriage that was annulled. That was in 1999. And that was to a Lebanese gentleman. Anyway, that’s another story. [Laughter]

[1:10:51] But at that wedding, that’s when I wanted to hear Wedding at Troldhaugen. So that’s where that one was played. It was a very, very ethnically diverse wedding, that’s for sure, and a wonderful party afterwards. [Laughter] My fellow teachers at school at Jason Lee Middle School… I had it annulled because of differences that were just too great to overcome with the cultural… mostly cultural.

[1:11:34] But my fellow teachers at Jason Lee would say to me… Because we got married in the spring. We got married in May. So every year after that, long about February, March, April, they would come to me… “Okay, Janet, who are you going to marry this year? We need another party.” [Laughter]

Affa: [1:11:59] A good party.

Janet: [1:12:01] Yes, it was lots of fun. We had a great time. It just wasn’t right to be married.

Affa: [1:12:10] You got a good party out of it.

Janet: [1:12:11] We did. And I learned some really wonderful recipes for Lebanese food.

Affa: [1:12:17] Oh, yeah.

Janet: [1:12:18] Yeah. I did. So there was some good there. I don’t mind talking about that. I will talk for hours if you let me. That’s another thing I inherited from my dad. And I also tell Norwegian jokes. [Laughter] Every time I go to a meeting or demonstrate at a cooking class, somebody will ask

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me to tell a joke. Okay.

Affa: [1:12:50] A good Norwegian.

Janet: [1:12:51] Yeah.

Affa: [1:12:52] Can you think of anything else?

Janice: [1:12:54] It’s been a wonderful array of the most fascinating information.

Affa: [1:12:58] It was just wonderful.

Janet: [1:12:58] Oh, well, I hope I’m not too boring.

Affa: [1:13:01] A lot of history, also.

Janet: [1:13:02] Yeah.

Affa: [1:13:04] Can you think of anything, like in your upbringing… anything different that your family did, or your friends, or…

Janet: [1:13:13] Well… My upbringing when living in Minnesota was pretty strict, really. Not that it was bad. It wasn’t. But it was very strict. We couldn’t even play cards. Not that it stopped us from playing cards. [Laughter] But we weren’t allowed. Even at the age of ten I was a bit of a rebel- I’d go next door and play canasta.

[1:13:50] But when we moved to California, it was like my parents became more open, and more relaxed. I don’t know why, particularly, that happened. Maybe it was the difference between small town, large town. Maybe it’s the difference between Midwest and California. That’s probably part of it, too.

Affa: [1:14:23] You said your father set up a mission?

Janet: [1:14:26] He set up… It was a Lutheran church. He started a Lutheran church in San Jose. Not that there weren’t other ones there, but he started one in an area where there wasn’t one. And he worked at that church ten years or more. Oh, no. More than that. Maybe twenty.

Affa: [1:15:00] It wasn’t specifically for helping poor people?

Janet: [1:15:04] No. They just call it a mission church because it’s the first one… It was founded. He founded the church.

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Affa: [1:15:11] Oh, I see.

Janice: [1:15:13] Do you remember what synod he was affiliated with?

Janet: [1:15:15] Oh, yeah. It’s the ELCA- Evangelical. It wasn’t called that then. It was just ELC, I think, then. Anyway. Now it’s the ELCA. I still belong to the ELCA church. I actually just drove by the church my dad started when my partner and I were in San Jose earlier in February. We just had to drive by there to see if it was still there, and it is. And it’s a Lutheran church, still. It’s interesting, though, because it is Hispanic. Which I’m just so thrilled that it’s an ELCA church.

Affa: [1:16:04] But it’s still a Lutheran church?

Janet: [1:16:06] Yeah.

Affa: [1:16:06] Even if it’s Hispanic.

Janet: [1:16:07] Yeah.

Affa: [1:16:07] Yeah. That’s interesting.

Janet: [1:16:09] Yeah, it is. I just think that’s wonderful. So, anyway…

Affa: [1:16:15] Anything else you can think of?

Janet: [1:16:18] Oh, well… No. Not right now.

Affa: [1:16:24] This was a wonderful interview. Thank you very much.

Janet: [1:16:28] Well, you’re most welcome.

END OF RECORDING.

Transcription by Alison Goetz.

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