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Transcript of Committee Proceedings PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 7 - PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT Thursday 11 March 2021 Examination of proposed expenditure for the portfolio area LOCAL GOVERNMENT CORRECTED The Committee met at 09:30 MEMBERS Ms Cate Faehrmann (Chair) Ms Abigail Boyd The Hon. Mark Buttigieg The Hon. Catherine Cusack The Hon. John Graham The Hon. Trevor Khan The Hon. Shayne Mallard The Hon. Mark Pearson (Deputy Chair) Mr David Shoebridge ____________ PRESENT The Hon. Shelly Hancock, Minister for Local Government ____________ CORRECTIONS TO TRANSCRIPT OF COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS Corrections should be marked on a photocopy of the proof and forwarded to: Budget Estimates secretariat Room 812 Parliament House Macquarie Street SYDNEY NSW 2000 Thursday, 11 March 2021 Legislative Council Page 1 CORRECTED The CHAIR: Welcome to the public hearing for the inquiry into budget estimates 2020-2021 initial hearings. Before I commence I would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people, who are the traditional custodians of this land. I would also like to pay respect to the Elders past, present and emerging of the Eora nation and extend that respect to other First Nations peoples present. I welcome Minister Hancock and accompanying officials to this hearing. Today the Committee will examine the proposed expenditure for the portfolio of Local Government. Today's hearing is open to the public and is being broadcast live via the Parliament's website. In accordance with the broadcasting guidelines, while members of the media may film or record Committee members and witnesses, people in the public gallery should not be the primary focus of any filming or photography. I also remind media representatives that you must take responsibility for what you publish about the Committee's proceedings. The guidelines for the broadcast of proceedings are available from the secretariat. All witnesses in budget estimates have a right to procedural fairness, according to the procedural fairness resolution adopted by the House in 2018. There may be some questions that a witness could only answer if they had more time or with certain documents to hand. In those circumstances witnesses are advised that they can take a question on notice and provide an answer within 21 days. Minister Hancock, I remind you and the officers accompanying you that you are free to pass notes and refer directly to your advisers seated at the table behind you. Any messages from advisers or members of staff seated in the public gallery should be delivered through the Committee secretariat. We expect the transcript of this hearing will be available on the web from tomorrow morning. Finally, everyone should please turn their mobile phones to silent for the duration of the hearing. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 7 - PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT Thursday, 11 March 2021 Legislative Council Page 2 CORRECTED TIM HURST, Deputy Secretary, Local Government Planning and Policy, Department of Planning, Industry and Environment, sworn and examined SHARON MOLLOY, Acting Deputy Secretary, Biodiversity and Conservation Directorate, Department of Planning, Industry and Environment, on former oath The CHAIR: Today's hearing will be conducted from 9.30 a.m. until 12.30 p.m. with the Minister. We have agreed to check in at 11.00 a.m. and if a break is required, then we will have a break for 10 minutes. The hearing will continue from 2.00 p.m. until 5.00 p.m. with the departmental witnesses, with a break at 3.30 p.m. if it is required. The Hon. TREVOR KHAN: Chair, can you point out that if there is a break of 10 minutes at around 11.00 a.m.— The CHAIR: Then we will go for 10 minutes further. If required, there is also an additional 15 minutes allocated at the end of each session for Government questions—not that they have been champing at the bit for that either. As there is no provision for any witness to make an opening statement before the Committee commences questioning, we will begin with questions from the Opposition.. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: Thanks, Chair. Thank you to the Minister, Mr Hurst and others for their attendance. We appreciate that. Mrs SHELLEY HANCOCK: Pleasure. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: Minister, I want to pursue a line of questioning that you will probably recall we went over almost a year ago in the last estimates hearings concerning Strathfield Council and in particular Mayor Doueihi. Will you tell me when the code of conduct issue was first raised with the Office of Local Government [OLG]? Mrs SHELLEY HANCOCK: I cannot answer for the OLG, so probably Mr Hurst is the one to actually answer that. I do not deal with individual code of conduct complaints. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: I am sorry, Minister, are you saying you are unaware of this issue whatsoever? You did not get any briefings? The Hon. TREVOR KHAN: That was not the question that was asked. Mrs SHELLEY HANCOCK: I am not saying that. I am saying I am not the appropriate person to answer that question, Mr Buttigieg, so Mr Hurst will answer that. Mr HURST: The Committee may be aware that the department prepared a departmental report into certain allegations about the mayor of Strathfield. That report has been provided to— The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: I am sorry, Mr Hurst. Could I take you directly to the substance of the question, which is when the issue was first raised with the OLG? Mr HURST: The reason I was explaining about the departmental report is that it actually has details of the allegations that were made to OLG and the results of the investigations of those allegations. That has been provided to the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal and is presently before the tribunal, so I am not able to discuss the contents of the departmental report while it is before the courts. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: So you are unable to tell us when it was first raised, but I understand that it was sometime late in 2018. Will you tell us when the investigation by OLG into Councillor Doueihi was first authorised? I think some of those matters are a matter of public record, given what has been published on the parliamentary website and written in various newspaper articles. Mr HURST: I do not think I actually have the material on that investigation with me for the reason that the matter is before the courts at the moment, so I did not come prepared to provide details of the investigative process. But as I say, the details are in the departmental report that is before the tribunal at this stage. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: But Mr Hurst, you authorised the investigation and you cannot tell me when the investigation was even authorised. Mr HURST: I can endeavour to find that information and get back to you later today. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: Does July 2019 ring any bells? Mr HURST: Sorry, there are a number of investigations underway. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 7 - PLANNING AND ENVIRONMENT Thursday, 11 March 2021 Legislative Council Page 3 CORRECTED The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: According to the information I have, from the time that the complaint was made to the OLG regarding Mayor Doueihi, it has taken eight months simply for an investigation to be authorised. You are the Minister for that department, the Office of Local Government. Do you think that is an acceptable amount of time simply for an investigation to be authorised? Mrs SHELLEY HANCOCK: I really cannot comment on that matter at this stage because it is a matter before the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal [NCAT] and it was dealt with by the Office of Local Government. I cannot comment on that because I am not aware of the relative complexity of the investigation that was carried out, so I cannot answer that question. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: Minister, I am putting to you that it— Mrs SHELLEY HANCOCK: You can put it to me all you like. I have answered the question. The Hon. TREVOR KHAN: Point of order: The Minister is entitled to complete answering the question that is put to her before Mr Buttigieg jumps down her throat with a further question. I ask that he be restrained appropriately. The Hon. MARK PEARSON: I would not say he was jumping down her throat, but he needs a little bit of restraint to let the Minister finish answering the question. Mrs SHELLEY HANCOCK: I agree. Thank you, Mr Deputy Chair. The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM: Your first win in two weeks. The Hon. TREVOR KHAN: A more fair chair. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: Minister, I am putting to you a very straightforward proposition. Mrs SHELLEY HANCOCK: Yes, I have heard the question and answered it as far as I am prepared to do. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: The proposition is that it has taken eight months for an investigation to be authorised. In that situation, are you comfortable as responsible Minister that your department is moving in an expedient fashion? We are talking about a fellow who is under a cloud here and I think the ratepayers of Strathfield deserve to know what is going on. Mrs SHELLEY HANCOCK: Thank you. Mr Hurst has some further information for you. Mr HURST: The information I have available is that the complaint was initially investigated by the council, as required under the procedures for the administration of the code of conduct, and that OLG did not commence its investigation until it had been referred the matter by the council. The Hon. MARK BUTTIGIEG: Minister, during that investigation do you know if Mr Doueihi was ever requested to be interviewed? Mrs SHELLEY HANCOCK: I am not aware.
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