913 Members P1;esent LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Minutes Amencled 914
The Hon. J. W. Jackson, O.B.E tEG·ISLATIVE COUNCIL (Nominated). The Hon. T. Lee (Essequibo River).
Th€ Hon. A. M. Edun (Nominated). Thursday, 19th October, 1944. The Hon. C. P. Ferreira (Be,rbice River).
The Council met at 2 p.m., His Excel The Clerk read prayers. lency the Officer Administering the Government, the Hon. W. L. Heape, MINUTES AMENDED C.M.G., President in the Chair. The minutes of the meeting of the Council held on the 18th October, 1944, as printed and circulated, were amended as follows on motions by the hon. the PRESENT: Attorney-General:
The Hon. the Colonial Secretary On page 1, line 13 of the Order of the (Acting) Mr. M. B. Laing, O.B.E. Day the words "with Mr. Roth's con sent the motion was deferred" were The Hon. the Attorney-General, Mr. deleted and the following substituted E. 0. Pretheroe, M.C., K.C. therefor "Mr. Roth asked leave to withdraw the motion." The Hon. the Colonal Treasurer, Mr. E. F. McDavid, C.B.E. · Between lines 13 and 14 the follow- ing words were inserted: "Leave The Hon. J. A. Luckhoo, KC. lNom1- granted and motion withdrawn." nated). On page 2, li.oe 14 the words "the The Hon. C. V. Wight, (Western f ollowing motion:- ft;ssequibo). That this Council recommends ...... '' The Hon. J. I. de Aguiar (Central were deleted and the following substi Demerara). tuted therefore "the following amend ment: The Hon. H. N. Critchlow (Nomi nated). That all words after the word "recommends" be deleted and the fol The Hon. M. B. G. Austin, O.B.E. lcwing substituted therefor:'' (Nominated). On page 2, line 20 the words "Mr The Hon. Percy C. Wight, O.ll.E. Critchlow withdrew the motion and" ( Georgetown Central). were deleted .and tlie word "hh," subiitituted for the word "the" in lii1e The Hon. Peer Bacchus (Western 21. Berbice). On page 37 the words "as amended'' The Hon. H. C. Humphrys, lC.C. were added after the words "Mo-tion (Eastern Demerara). passed." The Hon. C. R. Jacob (North West· The minutes as amended wc,re ern Pistrict), then taken as read and confirmeq. 915 Rice Expansion 19 OCTOBER, 1944. Schemes 916
ANNOUNCEMENT. Mr. PEER BACCHUS: No, sir; it is the third item on the list of schemes The PRESIDENT: I fixed the hour enumerated in the motion. Owing to of two o'clock with the idea of continu certain difficulties the work was not ing the debate on the hon. the Colonial started then, and it has been decideil Treasurer's motion and then adjourn to that the continuation of the empolder Finance Committee. I hope it will be ing dam should have been commenced possible to have the Finance Committee during last year. It is very peculiar meeting and to finish the business by that just before the work was to be 4 o'clock this afternoon, as some of us started there was a conference at which desire to go to a funeral immediately it was decided to postpone the continua afterwards. tion of that dam until the major scheme of drainage for Western ner ORDER OF THE DAY. bice was completed. If those respon sible for that decision ·had known the RICE EXPANSION SCHEMES. conditions as they existed on the Coast, I doubt very much whether they would The Council resumed the debate on have arrived at that decision. I wrote the following motion:- and enquired about it and I asked that the work be started, and I was told that THAT, with reference to the Officer the decision was arrived at by a meet Administering the Government's Message ing. I was not even informed which No. 6 of the 2nd of August. 1944, tliis Council approves of the acceptance of meeting, or by whom it was held, or funds provided under the Colonial whose decision it was. I urge that Development and Welfare Act, 1940, to Government consider the carrying out meet the cost of the following rice of that work. It is essential to the expansion schemes:- welfare of that portion of the district. The continuation and completion of this Crabwood Cre€k $170,000 Lots 63-74, Corentyne Weldaad empo1dering dam will not Coast 73,600 interfere with the major drainage Weldaad, West Coast, scheme for the whole coast; in fact it Berbice 42,600 will co-operate with such a scheme. Mahaicony-Abary 275,000 Maybe having one portion of the Perth Canal ...... 18,000 Mahaicony Rice district not empoldered, l fear the Mill ...... 20,000 people will continue to suffer beca.use Anna Regina Rice they may not be able to start the maior Mill ...... 32,000 drainage scheme within another ie\V years, and to delay the completion of th is $632,000 = £131,667 dam will be delaying the progress of that portion of the dist1:ict for another few years. I happen to know there is a Mr. PEER BACCHUS: I have a similar complaint as the hon. Member 50-50 grant in so far as a welfare for Central Georgetown and that is in scheme for the residential area of that so far as item 3 - "Weldaad, West Coast is concerned. Without an Coast, Be.rbice, $42,600"-is con empoldering dam at the back of those cerned. The empoldering dam ha� places it will render improvement of the residential area uneffective. The work been done by the Rice Expansion that is done now will not be effective as Committee of the district, but the work the overflowing water will go into the · has not been finished and another vote residential area and the money spent on has been proposed by this Government. the welfare scheme in that area will not That work should have been started late be of much use at all. '.l'herefore l am last year. asking that the Committee should reconsider its decision. This work has The PRESIDENT: Is that the been considered by the Irrigation and Mahaicony-Abary area 7 Drain.age Board and it w�s decided to 917 Rice Expansion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. . Schemes . 918
start it. That would have been done fit of the inhabitants of the Colony, I had it not been for the decision of this think we should be proud to make such other Committee. I feel that decision a contribution. should be reconsidered and the work done as early as possible. The COLONIAL TREASURER (Mr. Mc David) : I do not want to interrupt, The PRESIDENT: I do not think but is the hon. Member suggest.ing that it h, correct to s;,v the wor1< w<>c; r,o,;t the cost of the Mahaicony-Abary poned on the decision of any Commit scheme will not be fully met from the tee. Without the papers before me anrl grant? That is the case subject to the subject to correction, I think the work conditions set out in the Message. It has been deferred on the 1·ecomme'!'ldn is intended that it shaU be a free tion of the Director of Public Work'l grant, and anything recovered by means due to shortage of staff. I give the of a special tax on improvement of assurance t.hat I will go into the matter. the land will go to this Government. r do not think it is th� dedsion of a It is a free grant. Committee. I may be wrong. Mr. PEER BACCHUS: I take it then that it is not the very condition · Mr. PEER BACCHUS: I have a as in the case of the Boerasirie grant written reply from the Commissioner which will be a free loan until such of Local Government to the effect that time as the position is reviewed. If I it ha,; been decided at a meeting. What am mistaken, then I beg to withdraw meeting I do not know. the statement.
'l'he PRESIDENT: l will go into The C OLONIAL TREASURER: 'The ii. Mes,mge puts it very clearly:
Mr. PEER BACCHUS: I happen to "The Secretary of State has further lmow that other arrangement ll,1,d been intimated that the funds will be provid ed as a Ioan without interest in the first made by the Public Works Department instance, but that consideration will be to · commence that work when the given to the conversion of a loan into a decision ,vas taken. There is not the free grant when action has been ta1cen question as to whether the labour can to implement the conditions laid down.'' be, found to finish the work within the next rainy season, and so far as That action is something we can mechanical equipment is concerned it is take within a reasonable time. When just a vote of $15,000. that action is taken we have got authority to regard the loan as a free · Relative to the Mahaicony-Abary grant. Scheme I will begin by saying that I share the view of the hon. Member for Mr. PEER BACCHUS: l wish to North-Western District in so far as make myself perfectly clear that so the grant or grant in loan for that far as other works are concerner1 I scheme is concerned. Bearing in mim1 ci.m in entire agreement with the that this Government was asked ta conditions, but so far as the M The PRESIDENT: Is it your must have seen that the first and suggestion that because the Secretary second depths of that area have been of State instructed us to do this work empoldered. The first depth is where we must have a free grant? the river trench is being constructed. As a layman who is supposed to have Mr. PEER BACCHUS: Yes. so much knowledge -of drainage and irrigation, I would like to know from The PRESIDENT: That is exact- him how he expects to drain or irri 1,Y what we are going to have. gate effectively a cultivation area which is situated two depths away Mr. PEER BACCHUS: That may from this trench withont having a not be the decision. dam on both sides of the trench. It is but obvious to the ordinary layrn:1n The PRESIDENT: That is what that if there is only one dam to the we think. trench the entire first and second depths owned by lea;,;ehold have a drainage trench, an irrigation milling. iI think the hon. Member should . trench and a navigation trench, three bear in mind that river transport is far d.ifferent trenches, or that navigation cheaper and faster than road transport. is included in the drainage or irriga He must bear in mind that so fa.I'.' as tion trench and the one trench made to river transpott is concerned there ar� serve a dual purpose? two rive,rs in the area of the scheme __ the Abary and the Mahaicony Rivers. . Mr. PEER BACCHUS: For the One pleasing feature of the hon. Mem information of the hon. Member I am ber's comments yesterday is that he not suggesting either. I was making s1;pported the motion wholeheartedly the observation from his comments, but and felt that Government is going too to have a perfect Jay out of any scheme slowly so far as mechanization is eon I, as a layman, will say that a drainage cerned in the growing of rice. I hope the trench should be separate altogether time may not be long when he will be f1om an irrigation trench, but there is able to give the benefit of his knowl no harm using one trench for a dual edge so that we may progress faster purpose and all the more for that reason and reach the crop return we intend so you should have an embankment on as to be able to supply the •entire Carib- both sides of the trench. The hon. Mem bean area. ber for North-Western District did not see any dam on the schem�. I happened Mr. de AGUIAR: I do not provose to have been there before the schcml:! to embark on a lecture on the various was constructed a.t!d again a few Wf!eks -means of constructing drainage and ago, and I am happy to tell the hon. --:irrigation trenches, but I do wish to Member that I got around with a say that from the remarks made bV tractor on the dam pulling, a punt in the hon. Member for North-We,ster� the trench. I went through one half of District (Mr. Jacob) one point has the scheme and even with that tractor - e'n.1erged, and that is that there seems I could not get through the entire .to be some sharp difference of opinion scheme. If he had commented that nn · between two local experts on the subject, doubt a little more internal drainage which is not very often the case. Dis fa required, I might have agreed with agreement usually arises between the him because so far as internal drainage imported man and the local man. is concerned I do not think it is fully completed and that has to be done according to experience gained through I have really risen to lend my out the cultivation in that area. I th:nk support to the motion and to make it is the first time I have heard thnt one or two points in comwc:tion with it. land or road transport is preferab1a to I have not the fear which I have heard water transport where water transr.ort expressed by certain hon. Members is available. I think the hon. Member rE:garding the conditions attaehed to for North-Western District complaine(l t11is grant, unless, of course, I interpret tr.at there should be roads built mayb� their fears to mean that when the time · to take the crops off and that trami comes for this Government to talm port by river is a very slow method. I action to implement the proposals there happen to know there is the idea , of may be a certain amount of opposition constructing a road to adjoin, rthe to it. Speaking for myself I do not see public road imd that there is difference· what form that opposition will take. of opinion as to which is prefen1.l.JlP. As a matter of fact I do not see how For the information of the hon. Mem it could be justified because, after all, ber, if he has not observed that, I may the conditions are quite clear and state that bonds have been constructed simple, and I believe they are conditions vnder the scheme wherein the padi will which no one can object to. Surely i.f be stored during the crop season and I am the owner of a piece of Jrmd then ta:ken therefrom to the place of which I have not been able to use 923 Rice Expansion 19 bcTOBER, 1944. Schemes 92,1 beneficially for a number of years, and a question of their benefiting now as a result of some public work carriect and should pay something for it. They out on that land I am able to beneficial!? have no control or possession. The occupy and use it, it is only rig-ht and scheme has been undertaken at the proper that I should pay annual main specific request of the Secretary of tenance charges in order to occupy State. that land. Similarly, if I had a piece of land which was of no use to myself Mr. deAGUAIR: My remarks were or anybody, the value of that land not addressed particularly to the hon. must be negligible. Land which cannot Member who has risen to a point of be beneficially occupied is of no value, explanatio,n. I think he is hying to but if value goes up as a result of obtain some further information these works it is only right and prope. ·which he has been seeking fnr a long that an assessment should be made on time. The only answer I can give him is the enhanced value of that land. I that with a little more patience he therefore cannot see any justification will probably hear something mote for the fears expressed by those hon. about the Mahaicony-Abary scheme. Members in 1·espect of those two conditions. I would oppose very vigorously any attempt that might be· made by any Let us assume that a proper case Member of this Council when the time can be made out against the levy of a comes for taking action in connedicn charge for improvement of the land, or with this scheme, to frustrate the �gainst the levy of a rate for mainten whole scheme by opposing the ance of these wo1·t{S· Can anyone refuse conditions attached hereto. After all to make such payments when he realizes this is a very serious attempt. lJeing that he is only contributing to the made to expand the rice industry in Colony's economic position? Are•�e going to continue preaching in this t}lis Colony. It is true that the w11ole Council that we should get things for question arose out of the request that nothing? Time and again when sugges was made even of the holders of larger blocks 0£ ric:e plantations all well and goocl. land. The Committee and the Boar,1 therefore propose 1ll1at the central block Then we may further progress and of the area should be developed and have State ownership of the sugar operated on plantation lines.'' industry, and i)erhups the ·· bauxite industry. Don't you see we are pro That is an implication. gressing gradually towards State ownership and Socialism"? That ls The PRESIDENT; I do not see anv wl1y I am exammrng this scheme reference to slave labour. I woul;l critically, so that it should not fail, suggest to· the ho·n. Member that if he because I shall ask this Council one of has any differences of opinion with the these days to let Govemment have a two previous speakers, the hon. Mem chance to own another industry in this ber for North Western Di;:;trict (Mr. t:oJony. Jacob) and the hon. Member for Dem- eral'a River (Mr. King), he should go This is a very interesling motion, and see the scheme himself. so interesting that the hon. Member I for North Western Distl"ict (perhap� I Mr. EDUN: am prepared to go should give him the designation of the and see the scheme myself. I have stormy petrel of this Council) toc,11 never been invited to go there. I have nt:.arly an hour and a half to criticize just recently been invited by the Pub it, 1:;11d another Member addre;,sed licity Officer to go there on Saturday, wliat at times se,emed fulsome praise. but ,vhether I should take the oppllr I want to give some prai,se too. l tunity I do not know. But for th<"! think in due course when we are exam indication that this scheme is to be ining this scheme and fin.cl that it is worked on the plantation system I a success I will be able to praise r,ome might have passed it unnoticed. people, but first of all let us be frank If we have to praise anybody at all for In the details of the scheme I see the expansion of the rice industry, per prnvision for 6 cottages for foremen, haps that 2,500 acres, we must thank 20 cottages for permanent labour, and "Mr. War Exigencies." We have not 3 bungalows for the supervisory staff. to thank anvone else because I ean l.VIy mind then began to be suspicious. remember that just before the Great What is it? What has happe:ied? War, 1914-18, there was a slump in I-las the peasant system broken down? the rice situation and many of the ri(e millers and proprietors began to feel Mr. PERREIRA: I rise to a point very pessimistic about the industry. The of explanation. I would like to a.sk if war came and suddenly the rice indti::J the speaker is accusing Government try jumped up. 29,000 tons of rice of attempting to introduce Commun were exported in a year and there wa� prosperity on the Corentyne Coast, at ism? I think we are quite· satisfied it Mahaicony and Mahaica on the East is a Democratic system. Coast Demerara and in the county of Essequibo. The Banks gave all facili Mr. EDUN: My friend does not ties in financing the industry. During seem to follow the trend of my argu e ment. Perhaps he is concerned about the war and a few years after thos the development of State industry as conditions continued, and then the against what is known as private capi· slump came. Several members of the talism. This is an experiment, a wise commercial community thought they one indeed. I am in favour of Sfa.te should get together and endeavour to ownership of everything. The railway:,; fight the issue with the Burma pro are State owned, and if we are to have duct. 9Sl Rice Expainsion 19 OCTOBER, 1944. Schemes 932 . lVIany schemes were formulated. We have made excellent experiments There was to be a single-seller organi so far as Government estates are con zation, but eventually the Rice Market ct-rned - Windsor Forest, La Jaloiu!ie ing Board came into being. It began and Hague. We have invested money with good zeal and enthusiasm, but it there and, I think, they will be excel could not cope at all with the London lent propositions for the future of Brokers. It was a matter of the Brit Government in fostering the peasant ish Guiana peasants' product versw:, system. It is all very good to speak the interests of the Brokers in London, of experiments, but I rather see and eventually the Burma pr-0duct keptj results, a little bit of illustration of out the British Guiana product a.lto what we are producing and Govern gether with the result that the riee ment selling those things. Rice culti industry of the Colony dwindled prac vation in this Colony has proved a. tically to nothing and the pcasm1t success because it is a peasant indus farmers had to· get back on the sugar try. Let us take the wider experi estates. Suddenly when everybody felt ence of the world. Sir Frank Stock there would have been some kind nf dale had made his comparison. financial catastrophe for the indm,tr.v Nowhere in this world, not even September, 1939, came and Hitler and America with its vast industrial poten his hordes were on the march. As tialities, can compete with its machin soon as the Japanese captured Burma ery in the production of rice against the situation changed. Rice became Burma, China and India. That is an such an essential staple diet in thfo accepted fact. If they could have country and the West Indies that the succeeded they would have, but the Secretary of State for the Colonies fact remains that up to now no nation said: "Look here, we will give all the has been able to challenge the East in money you want. See that your rice the production of this staple food. 'rhat production is expanded in the interest is why Sir Frank Stockdale expressed of the British Possessions in the West his doubt, and having visited Indies." From that nucleus I see thi::i sugar estates he knows how they are big and wide plantation system is being worked. So far as mechanization is created. I am thinking, sir, that when concerned he expresses his dou:bt and the slump comes on again and if we I agree with him. happen to capture Burma and the Burma product is produced as cheap as can be and is allowed to come in and I want to take this opportunity to capture these ma.rkets without restric express gratitude on behalf of this tion any expansion will go by the Council and on behalf of those people board. "\.\Till there be then competition whom I happen to represent for all the between the Government plantation money we have been getting from the system and the · peasants of this Imperial Government in spite of the Colony? That is the question I want destruction which is going on. I hon. Members of Council to ask them would be a traitor to this country selves. So you see we have to be ultra and to the Mother Country if I see that c:wtious in trying to expand the rice we are wasting this money in industry without guaranteed markets. futile experiments and not say anything Here I will give credit to any geniu!:I, about . it. I warn Government to go cautiously. It is the first time l if we can produce him, to offset the have heard land is available to peasant:;, London Broker. Let the Colonial Office and I will expect it to be given to the assist us; let us have reciprocal peasants. I have no fear about it. In markets. If that is secured I wculd certain respects we want to creep, then sit down feeling assured that this walk and then run, but in this respect scheme will benefit this country. we want to creep and then run. We 'do 933 · Rice Expansion LEGISLATIVE cfouNCIL. Sckenies 934 not want to walk at all. · We just take North-Western District referred to when the opportunity of a few years between he said Mr. Parker visited the Colo�y and war conditions and when a slump is on advised the erection of a central rice to make experimentation. No one has mill in that district. It seems this is touched on the cost of production per the time when Government should make acre. I do not want to make anyone a direct pronouncement on that score feel that this experiment should not as to the policy it proposes pursuing in continue. I wish for a maximum export that line. It will be necessary to decide of 100,000 tons of rice, but let us be whether we are going to have several practical. What about the lean days? central rice mills which, I suppose, are Will the hon. the Colonial Treasurer as for the purpose of furthering the Chairman of the Rice Marketing Board scheme.· tells us what they are doing about reci procal a.r,rart.gements in the West Indies I could not quite follow the ques in 1·espect of the rice trade? That is tinn of Government plantation system the ctux of the problem. I think thfa with cum annexis slavery. It became sn Council ought to say: "We have taken involved that after a certain time I gave the cue from the Colonial Office and up the struggle. I would like to find extended our rice production and you, out from the hon. Member, as he defi sir, should see the West Indian Gov nitely stated he is in favour of State ernments and make arrangements for ovmership of everthing which means reciprocity between us." There is where he recognizes or follows the Communist I feel we have to be strong. We ought doctrine, how is such going to be built, to be considered more than the question a Government plantation system, with of the London Brokers and the Poor of the idea of peasant farming. He British Guiana. Therefore, I think, we knows fully well the system advocated should go cautiously. was always that of communal farming where the State that he referred to I have been told definitely by th,, commandeered the produce of the farm, acting Colonial Secretary that arrange but that caused a considerable amount ment is being made to put the rice of friction and unrest, and so · that industry on a co-operative basis in the sy.stem whittled down considerably to a future. I think that is the best way system of private ownership. Is he to go about it. I agree we should have g-oing around the districts to tell per something like the Rangoon Mills, but sons so that he can get persons to go do not let the Government of British under this Government nlantation Guiana begin by having a plantation. system? I defy him to say that the Let us not begin to feel that we are statement he made to-day about Gov out of the bush as yet. Let us be ernment plantation system is not cautious. I trust and hope that with a�ainst peasant farming-. I think he this gesture of goodwill and nucletrn should withdraw it if he has any inter and the pooling of our resources togetb eRt in the scheme. We are under a er we will be able to say to the democratic system and do not want folands: "We have the product, send the what he advocates. ships.'' The hon. Member talked about Mr. C. V. WIGHT: I have never mechanization. This is an attempt to yet been able to �et in direct terms do so. Is he afraid it is going to absorb from the hon. the Colonial Trea;surer a the farmers to which he referred or statement as to whether this expansion that it may take the productive side of of the Anna Regina Rice mill is ever to the industry to where peasant farming take the place of the proposed Central will expand as quickly as it can? Those Rice Mill which the hon. Member for are two views he should bring to be(lr 935 . Rice Expansion 19 OCTOBER, 1944. Schemes 936 on the subject. If the hon. Member is that form of industrialization we will be going to give me, the answer then we unable to build up an industry which may ask for a grant for this centrai will compete later on with Burma and rice mill in Essequibo. other places in the production of rice. lf we want to make reciprocal treaties Mr. J. A. LUCKHOO: I was ·not with other people, we must be able to here yesterday when the debate on this compete with other countries so far as motion began, but I have listened with cost is concerned and to treat with them. interest to the several speakers who I think this is an opportunity which ha::; have spoken this afternoon on UtP. come to us to put ourselves in the posi motion. Apart from the hon. Member for Central Demerara who spoke so tion to make these treaties with other people and so supply the West Indies lucidly on this question, I have been with the produce we can get from this una le to follow the inconsistent sug � country. The motion ought to find favour gestions and views put forward bv some of the speakers especially those by with every Member of this Council, if the hon. the Sixth N-0minated Member of he has the interest of the Colony at heart. I know, sir, that this afternoon'l'( the Council. I do not know whether he will desires us to harken back to the old sitting be somewhat curtailed way of tilling the land by means of the because of a very unfortunate occur ordinary agricultural forking in order rence yesterday, the demise of the late to produce rice to compete with Burmfl Colonial Auditor, and I\ do not think it when the time comes. Government ha!" needs any further implementation of been accused over and over in th!,Q words on my part to record my hearty Chamber that it favours only the exp:m support in favour of the motion before sion of the sugar industry and noth the Council. ing has been done for the rice indus try. I think that has been the cry of the hon. Member for North-Western Dis Mr. FERREIRA: I would like to trict for many long years. Now Govern associate myself entirely with the ment is endeavouring to expand the rice l'emarks of the last speaker and to con industry there is the complaint from gratulate Government on making a him that it will be a failure. I do no� serious attempt to provide means of know what process one's thinking seems developing not only the Rice Industry to take on. At times it presents us in but the Colony at the same time. I do the figure of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. not think it is worthwhile dealing with There should be no fear that if the all the remarks made by the hon. the people of this Colony put their shoulder·, Sixth Nominated Member (Mr. Edun). I together what looks now as a loan woulr1 think he should bear in mind that the be converted into a grant. In other rates of wages in Burma woulrl hardly words, this is put forward in writinir be accepted in this Colony, and I hardly in the nature of a loan, but if we take foll advantage of the opportunity which think we will ever drop to that standard. the Secretary of State has offered then These schemes have been criticized it is to be a g-rant. I think it wonlrl because of waste and over-expenditure he a mistake if we do not tako. ti,; · in such schemes. You must have abuse, opportunity in respect of these devel and there have been abuses I have been opment schemes which will mean pros told. I do not think . we should hes i perity for this country in the long run. tate to support schemes such as these. It is absurd in these days to talk of In these modern times in order to going back to the ancient form of til compete with other countries you have lage. We should realize that mechan to employ the same methods for pro ization is the only solution to the suc- duction as they. I think that without cessful expansion of the rice industry. 937 Rice Exp(llYl,8ion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Schemes 938 There can be no other means with the which I would like to reply. He seized limited labour available. I have seen upon a comment quoted in one of the the efforts made by the Rice Marketing despatches as emanating from Sir Board with mechanization, and I am Frank Stockdale. Sir Frank Stockdale perfectly satisfied we. are proceeding did say at a conference in this Colony in the right direction. that he had some doubts about the use of mechanical equipment here for rice There is one thing I may mention cultivation, but, as I remarked when I and that is, Members of• this Council interjected during yesterday's debate, should be invited and given an oppor be w;:i.s not referring to the use or tunity to see these schemes. I can mechanical equipment as a matter of assure you, air, that had all Members policy: he was referring to doubts in of Council been invited and taken over regard to its successful use physically the schemes instead of our spending on our particular soils and particular two days on this debate we would have lay-out-drains, cro,;s drains and so on. concluded it yesterday. He was referring- to its use in regard to the reaping of the particular kind The COLONIAL TREASURER: This of rice we grow here, and whether it debate has ranged over a some wonld stand up to mechanical treatment, what wider field than is perhaps justi and so on. The hon. Memher has used fied by the terms of the motion. Many that doubt expressed by Sir Frank hon. Members have spoken in detail Stockdale in quite a different wav. He on the rice cultivation scheme at has thought fit to suggest that he was Mahaicony, the scheme for mechanical referring to mechanization as inimk:il equipment, and even on the· scheme for to the cultivation of rice by peasantR. the provision of new rice mills. These That is not the case at all. three schemes are not embodied in the tem1s of the motion before the Council Mr. EDUN: Ntl, I did not sav it to-day, but nevertheless they are was inimical but' generally he feels thal included in the despatches which have mechanization would not be succe,::1- been laid before hon. Members in a fnl. Council Paper. ,Consequently I thi'1k hon. Members were within their right:, The COLONIAL TREA1SURER: in covering the ground as much as The inference I drew, which I think they had done, and I for . one rather the Council drew from the hon. Mem welcome the onnortunity of hearing- in bel·'s remarks, was that Sir Fran]; advance their views on the subjer:t . Stockclale doubted it from the point of Nevertheless I contemplate with a cer view of policy. That is not the case. tain amount of alarm the possibility of hearing those speeches all over again The hon. Member went on to talk when 1 have, as is my duty, to bring about the wicked London brokers and a motion before the Oouncil with the competition from the East in the respect to the grant for those particu past and what we may expect in the lar schemes. They are not embodied future. He also wanted us to assure in the motion now before the Council. him that efforts would be made to secure our rice against that competition, Perhaps the most important speech at least in the West Indian marketf\. came from the hon. the Sixth Nomin Well, the first thing we have to do ated Member (Mr. Edun). I regret to before we can overcome that competi say that I was not quite clear as to tion is to have the rice. Our main whether he was supporting some of difficulty in se1ling rice to the West the things or whether he was opposing, JndieR, particularly to our neighbour but there were one or. two poin�s to Trinidad, has been that we did not have 939 Rice Expansion 19 OCTOBER, 1944. Schemes �40 the full amount of rice they required. Mr. ,JACOB: May I enquire We had part of it. Similarly in Jamaica, whether it is a low standard of living and with the whole field,-unless and in the East or a high standard of living until we can assure ourselves that we in this Colony, or the low cost of liv have the rice, we cannot go with open ing? There is a difference between a· hands to them and beg or demand a low standard of living and a low cost firm market in the West Indies. of living. If the hon. Member say;, . that the standard of living in the Eai:i!: The primary object of all these is low as against the standard of Jiv. • schemes, at the stage they have now ing among the peasant<; here being reached, is to ensure that we shall have high I do not agree with him. the rice to sell, and we can go to those markets and say: "Do not look to The COLONIAL TRE.AiSURER: I India for any part of what you require am not going to split hairs. I meant be<'ause we have it to sell.'' both. I have never been to India but As rega1·ds the steps we are tak l have read a lot about it. I have never ing to assure the market, apart from been to Burma or China, but most of the production of the product itself, hon. ns know what the standard of Iivinrr Members may have read somethinr.: is there, and we do not want to see it abont tthe Ang-lo-American Cari,bbean reproduced here or anywhere else. Conference held at Barbados. In one (''Hear, hear''). of the reports of the Committees ai1 The hon. Member for North West important recommendation is that the ern District (Mr. Jacob) made the · West Indies i:;hould be regarded a� a longest speech, but I have very little to i;,ing-le unit for the sale of produce say about it. It was one of the most obtained within their respective fields, peevish criticisms I have ever heard and action is going ahead along thAt from him in this Council. He charo·cil line o.f poliry. I was very please Mr. JACOB: May I explain? I diture gets a larger share of that was appointed to that Committee and I bendit than it should. That is to Ray left the Colony in June for Englanq. a tax should be levied so that some of returning to the Colony in September the products of the work should go into or October. That is how I made the the g-eneral revenue. Those are the mistake. I think it is improper for conditions, and as soon as we can get the hon. Member to stress the point the necessary legislative action we because immediately after the report should be able to represent to the Col· of the Committee was presented I with onial Office a case for having the loan drew the statement. It is strange to,J transferred. that a member of the Committee and not the Chairman prepared the report. I am not going to deal with the question of the Mahaicony-Abary scheme The COLONIAL TREASURER: itself. It is a rather technical ques It sometimes happens. It happened tion which the hon. Member for West that I was very interested and I pre ern Berbice (Mr. Peer Bacchus) cer pared the scheme which was submitted, tainly answered very well indeed. I accepted and embodied as a recommend !'an only say with him that if the hon. ation of the Committee. Member for North Western District (Mr. Jacob) did visit that place he The hon. Member criticized the must have got in by the back door, plans for rke mills. He said we had because I cannot see how he could pos an expert, Mr. Parker, but we are not sibly have gone there and said some fo1lowing- his advice; we were not doing of the things he has said about the the things he said we should do. That scheme, is we are not going in for mechanical drying. That is just the thing be dirl not say; he said exactly the opposite. Th8 hon. Mernher f01· H', nn such intention at all. The Mahni commendation of Mr. Seaford, Mr. Gadd cony scheme is a thing by itself. It and myself. I in my turn would lik8 is a larg-e block of land which we want to pay tribute to the two public officers to develop as an experiment to go along concerned. I think they are whole with these schemes, and it cannot .he heartedly in this scheme in particu done except we use those· harsh words lar. f say again that I am grateful "on plantation · lines.'' We have no that this debate has taken place becam,P. intention whatever of repeating that it has given us an opportunity of hear throughout the countryside. This is ing the general views of Members on the only scheme it is contemplated to matters which are not imperative to do in that way, and for a special pllr this motion. I ask that the questirm pose. The hon. Member is quite rig-ht be now put. in rnyinp: that recent schemes are not heing taken advantage of to the extent. Mr. PERCY C. WIGHT: I spoke they should. The Crabwood Creek first and said very little. I referred scheme, a very valuable scheme on to the Sarah-Mahaicony scheme for which money is being spent, is not beini; which money was voted some years ag,). taken up to the extent we expected, so The scheme has not been started and I much . so that a recommendation has made certain remarks which you were now come to Government that we shou!d g·ood enough to say the Colonial Treas- stnp doing the entire work to the full 11rer would answer. The matter ha� extent originally contemplated, because evidently slipped him. I do not think it would be a waste of money to do he would have treated it with conte,rript those works if the land is not being after what you said. taken up. It would not only be a wa�te of money but it would impose a burden on those who are making use of some Tl1e COLONIAL TREASURER: of the land. I agree that every effort havl) little to say about it. It is should be made by all concerned to get perfectly true that a resolution was those lands taken up. passed some time in October, 194.R, authorizing a.n expenditure of $23,000 The hon. Member for Western on the execution of works for the Essequibo (Mr. C. V. Wight) referred improvement of what is known as th<) to the question of the rice mill. It is Sarah-Mahaicony canal. Since that time quite true that the original idea of thti we have had another report from the Committee to which I referred was that Consulting Engineer in which he the first central rice mill in the Colony suggests that a further sum of $15,000 should go to Essequibo. The positio�1 will be required to do the work. The cloes not really justify a new mill at question is whether the work is .in.sti the present time. Not only has the fied. I am not sure what the an::;wer Government mill at Anna Regina been will be. The matter is now uncle\· reconditioned but other mills on the consideration. It is true that a very • Coast are in tolerably good condition small amount of work has been done. and quite capable of dealing with th� I find that $700 was expended on crop on the Essequibo Coast. This preliminary work, and in view of the week the first of these two mills will very g1·ently enhanced cost it is a ques be set up elsewhere, probably in the tion for serious consideration whether heart of the Mahaicony scheme. the work will be justified. However, . it has no relation whatever to the I think I have covered the ground works referred to in this pai·ticu]ar 11s far as I would like in the very short motion. time at our disposal. I would just like to end by thanking the hon. Member for Mr. JACOB: Worded as this motion Demerara Rivei, (Mr, Kin�) for his is I am afraiq- 945 Rice Expansion LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Schemes 946 The PRESIDENT: I think it is The Council divided and voted: unusual to speak twice. l\lr.• TACOB: Worded as the motion For- Messrs. Ferreira, Edun, Jack is I will have to vote against it son, Peer Bacchus, Percy C. Wight, because the conditions, particularly Critchlow, de Aguiar, C. V. Wight, J. those in paragraphs (b) and (c) of A. Luckhoo, the Colonial Treasurer, the Message, are not what I may call the Attorney General and the Colonial very good. I have in mind particularly--- Secretary.-12. The PRESIDENT: I am afraid we Against-Mr. Jacob- cannot have another speech from the hon. Member. Motion carried. Mr. JACOB: Very well, I will vote against it, sir. The PRE�rDENT: There is no other item oil the Order Paper and I The PRESIDENT: . The motion has therefore !laggest that the Council i.Jeen moved and debated by nearly adjourn sirte die. The Cobnial Treas every Member. I think it has been urer would like to hold a meeting of well ventilated, and I now put the the Finance Committee next Thursday question at 2 p.m.