An Interview with Rana Bokhari, Liberal Party Leader† R A N A B O K H A R I BPS: How did you end up in law school? RB: Well I spent most of my life as a farmer. My family had a large chicken farm in Anola, so for much of my life, my day to day was filled with gathering eggs and feeding chickens and other work in the barns. As a young girl, I wanted to be a doctor and my parents were encouraging me to do so. As I got older I realized that medicine wasn’t for me. It was too sterile, too dry, and it didn’t fit my personality at all. I admire anyone in the profession but it was not my calling. In my late teens, early twenties I went through a very creative phase, I started designing clothes. I had no formal fashion design education but I loved tearing things apart and putting them back together, it was just this quirk I had. At that point, my dad who was a business man and a wonderful supportive male role model in my life, encouraged my creativity, but felt I needed a solid educational foundation. I went back to university when I was 28 years old, and with the encouragement of my parents I made the decision I was going to go to law school. And after a degree in Psychology, a degree in Criminology, my pre-Masters in Criminology, I got into law school at Robson Hall, University of Manitoba. BPS: Did you do it because you saw a career as a lawyer or because you already had some intimation about a career in politics? RB: I went into law as a stepping stone to public service. Anyone who knew me during law school could see that as passionate as I was about † This interview was conducted by Bryan P. Schwartz in July 2014. Rana graduated from Robson Hall Faculty of Law in 2010. She was elected leader of the Manitoba Liberal Party in October 2013. 42 MANITOBA LAW JOURNAL | VOLUME 37 NUMBER 2 the practice of law, (to be clear, I am a strong advocate of practical legal education) it was pretty clear that it was outside my personality to solely practice law. I was more about moving people and getting people engaged. I have always been about serving people. During law school, I lead several initiatives to get the student body rallied about some issue or some cause, because I knew that I could, I am able to get people together and passionate about a cause. University, specifically Robson Hall was where I started all my fundraising initiatives, that is where I said, “Ok I want the student body to give back to the community”. That is why I was so passionate about organizing events for the student body because I was just itching to give back in some way. I think my calling to public service stems from how grateful I am, I’m so thankful for my family being here, for the fact I was raised the way I was, for being first generation Canadian, I am the first female lawyer in the family, the first politician in the family, and as first generation family I’m just grateful for what this province has given me. For me it will always about giving back and politics is the vehicle I’ve chosen to do that. BPS: Coming up to the 100th Anniversary of the law school, we are doing a special issue interviewing people who were there during the great transition in the 1960s. The transition was moving from practitioner-oriented legal education to academic. For example, the Manitoba Law School locates itself on the university campus, and since then in many ways it has increasingly identified itself as an academic institution that teaches law instead of a practitioner-oriented place. Now there is a lot of pressure to go in the opposite direction. You probably know that in Ontario the system cannot handle the sheer number of applicants and has had to develop alternative routes to practice. So did you have a sense of those tensions of law as an academic pursuit and law as a profession, and how did those play out in the law school? RB: Great question. First year law I was student representative for my section, second year I was Manitoba Bar Association representative, and in third year I was president of the Manitoba Law Student Association (MLSA). I made it a point to be very involved in what was happening in terms of the direction of the practice of law in that school. It is interesting walking out and realizing how accurate our student body’s vision was about where the school was going. In all the different positions I’ve held, especially as president, I was pushing to make sure Interview with Rana Bokhari 43 that the faculty members and the Bar understood that those students coming into law school need to be trained as professional practical lawyers. It is my opinion that we are doing a huge disservice to the public if we do not do that. Students who do not have basic knowledge, basic practical legal skills cannot provide the public with competent and efficient service, number one. Number two, I respect and admire those who chose an academic field of law, the facts are that the majority of student who are in law school want to practice. Now understanding that those practical skills are critical for the majority of students, it’s very difficult when the structure available to students to attain those skills is eroding or not available. The greatest challenge the profession of law in Manitoba could face is we get off the track of promoting and delivering practical legal education. Respect it, admire it, encourage research but the focus has to be practical skills because our job as lawyers is public service. We are public servants and people rely on us to do a job. Clients spend a lot of money and expect high levels of service and knowledge to be delivered in the most efficient manner. It is my fear as we progress more into this push and pull between academic and practical that somehow we are going to lose the vision which was and should truly be training lawyers with practical skills- that’s what Robson Hall should be known for. BPS: Let’s break that down operationally. Robson Hall was unique curriculum philosophy in that it had three streams that students take concurrently. There is a doctrinal stream in that unlike most law schools we require students to take a reasonable number of courses after first year. We require students take Family Law, Corporations, Evidence, Tax, and Trusts. From your perspective as a student then and as someone who practiced law, do we have the right balance between student choice and mandatory? RB: Absolutely. As much as we may have complained about it at the time (during law school), the value of those courses….well they proved to be invaluable. Those core mandatory classes are one of the greatest assets and foundational tools that our faculty provided. Those courses gave us a strong understanding of the big picture approach of law. There are no cookie cutter clients, clients who says “this is my family problem, solve this individual problem” may not be aware of the tax issues, maybe an estate issue, possible a criminal issue. There will be multiple issues for that one client, that the lawyer has to be able to recognize. Now, That does not mean that a family lawyer will have to 44 MANITOBA LAW JOURNAL | VOLUME 37 NUMBER 2 go and solve all those issues for that person, but lawyers do need to be able to recognize that those problems exist. I can assure you, those mandatory classes are an asset. BPS: We have clinical, skills-based component every year. There is talk about expanding that, people are now calling experiential learning. Are we offering enough in that area? Should we be putting more resources into that area? RB: Going back to my own experience it was difficult to get into those courses. There were some courses that you gained some skills through, Art of the Deal was one of them. We would go with Professor Pozios to firms and draft documents – sales agreements and whatnot. I remember calling Professor Pozios first month practicing and telling him how much those skills helped me in practice. Regarding resources, I would strongly encourage hiring faculty members who are trained and have practiced as lawyers. The reality of the situation is, that students want to know their professor has practiced corporate law for decades so that he/she can instruct them on the nuances, the hooks to look for in the contract for example. They need to know what to look for, the only person who can tell them want to look for is an experienced practitioner, someone who has learned from experience and now can teach students what they have learned. Encouraging lawyers to teach as as sessional instructors is a start. Students need and pay thousands of dollars for legal training; this is lost at times, in the bureaucracy of it all. Teach them how to save client’s money, teach them how to be the best practicing lawyers they can be. Spend time going through contracts, and custody agreements, and sale and purchase agreements, teach them what tax issues arise during a basic real estate deal…integrate all aspects of law in a balanced way, and we will produce the best lawyers.