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Oral History Interview with Walter Askin, 1992 March 4-6

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Oral History Interview with Walter Askin, 1992 March 4-6 Oral history interview with Walter Askin, 1992 March 4-6 Funding for the digital preservation of this interview was provided by a grant from the Save America's Treasures Program of the National Park Service. Contact Information Reference Department Archives of American Art Smithsonian Institution Washington. D.C. 20560 www.aaa.si.edu/askus Transcript Preface ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW WITH WALTER ASKIN IN HIS STUDIO IN PASADENA, CALIFORNIA MARCH 4, 1992 INTERVIEWER: PAUL J. KARLSTROM Interview WA: WALTER ASKIN PK: PAUL KARLSTROM PK: This is the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution, an interview with Walter Askin at his studio in Pasadena. What's the address here? WA: 26 West Dayton. PK: Near Old Town Pasadena. The date is March 4, 1992. This is tape one, the beginning of the interview, probably the first of two sessions. The interviewer is Paul Karlstrom. We have just had an enjoyable breakfast, on the archives, which is the way we like it, and this should hold us for maybe two hours. We'll see. First I want to say I'm delighted that we can do this. I think it's going to be fun. I'm looking forward to it, and I also think that you'll have some very special information to share regarding your own work, but this community as well. I think that maybe right up front we could say this that you, of course, have your own career, your own work, your own life to talk about today, but also I think you've been in a very interesting place as an observer over a career that spans, what, about forty years, I suppose. WA: At least, yes. PK: You've been mainly based here in the Los Angeles area and presumably have had experience and contacts that would illuminate that subject as well as your own work. So this is what I'm hoping to get at in this interview. This is a somewhat long introduction to the subject, but it certainly makes it clear what we are after. In such interviews we generally start out, of course, these interviews are biographical, and so we start out at the beginning trying to lay in the early experiences. Walter, you, I believe, were born in Pasadena. At least you grew up here. Could you tell us something about those earlier years and maybe special circumstances in your background that would, in some way, explain how you happen to be here now, still in Pasadena as a working artist? WA: I was actually born in Pasadena, at the Huntington Hospital, which is only a half mile from where we're sitting right now. The studio building is in the center of what used to be the black section of Pasadena. As a matter of fact, this studio is the first building built by a black businessman in Pasadena. I'm very proud of that fact. It used to be the hub of activities here in the church. There's still a black church down at the far corner where you can listen to two sermons during the summer, and it's quite a delight, because they practice the singing in the evenings during the week. I really enjoy that aspect of this. Where we're sitting right now used to be a restaurant called The Other Place Cafe, or the Bluebird Inn. Right behind used to be a beauty parlor. After the Doodah Parade, once Betye Saar came by and she said, "I spent the worst hours of my life in this room," because her mother used to bring her here to have her hair done every Saturday, and they would talk about all the salacious gossip in the neighborhood, but always in code. PK: You mean Betye Saar grew up in Pasadena as well? WA: Yes, she did. And Hayward King. I didn't know Betye then, but I knew Hayward in high school. Then the far side was a barber shop, and there was a lawyer here and a realtor as well. So this was really the center of things for quite a while. PK: Let me ask you, and I don't mean to interrupt, but I gather that Pasadena was not one of those communities then in southern California and elsewhere that basically had de facto desegregation. I know some nearby communities where Blacks certainly were not welcome to stay overnight. Yes, they could come in in the daytime to work. WA: Oh, not at all. Not at all. PK: So there was really a vital Black community here? WA: Yes. Absolutely. PK: This is, what, in the thirties? WA: I was born in 1929. So, yes. PK: Pre-war, then war years. WA: That's right. This building was built in 1924, and it probably was owned and operated by a Black up until the fifties, somewhere in that bracket. PK: You find that interesting now in retrospect. Is it possible to think back to your boyhood here? Is this something you noticed, that you remember, that this was a Black community? WA: No, don't think that it was pure and beautiful. But it was a better-than-average situation for Blacks. But I remember Hayward talking about walking down Colorado Boulevard, and Wally Hedrick and David Simpson would go into the Woolworth's for a milk shake, and Hayward resented that, because he wasn't allowed to sit at the counter there, and he felt that his friends were very insensitive in that respect, and I think they undoubtedly were. PK: It sounds like it. WA: Yes. PK: I'm sure they wouldn't do that, treat their friend like that now. WA: Oh, not at all. And when we went into San Francisco, we did walk out of places where Hayward would not be served. If they said, "In this place we won't serve you. You need a membership card," or something like that, we just all got up and left, but not before we told everybody in the place pretty much how we felt about that situation. PK: What made the difference in attitude? Just maturation growing up, knowing more about the world? WA: Oh, we'd never seen Hayward thrown out. He would just avoid going into those places with them. But I didn't ever spend that much social time with them right after school, and so I never saw that situation. But Blacks did live in different areas in town, and that wasn't by any sort of design. I think there was such a strong racist backdrop that everybody understood this was the line or whatever. So there was a general division in the schools. For instance, Washington School was nearly all Black, whereas, John Marshall, where I went, a junior high school, was pretty much all White and Asian. The Asians were integrated and did live among us, and so that seemed natural. We were always taught tolerance, openness, receptivity. That is, racism simply wasn't permitted in the classroom in Pasadena city schools. The teachers at that time, elementary school teachers as well as secondary school teachers, used to travel widely so that even in the thirties and forties they'd all been to South America, to Mexico, to China, to the Philippines, to Europe, and that was an extremely good situation. There was a strong emphasis on art in town, too. The public school system, I think, prided itself on the strength of art programs. PK: That's what I wanted to ask you next, or at least at some point along here, just when did you first encounter art? How did you develop an interest? I gather it was something that the public school at that time did provide. WA: That's true. That's true. I was committed to art very early on. PK: How did that come about? WA: Well, we lived in a rented house at 815 Mar Vista, and it had little rose-pattern wallpaper on the wall. I had taken to drawing small figures and boats and things inside of the roses. PK: With permission? WA: Oh, no. [Laughter] No, as a matter of fact, my mother was talking with a salesman at the door one day, and she hadn't scrutinized the wallpaper very carefully up until that time. She was not interested in what he was saying, but she did start to see what was happening in her wallpaper. When the salesman left, she let me know in no uncertain terms, and probably with some application to the backside, that this was not to happen. I felt that something that made such a wonderful, kindly, generous, good, and giving person so angry must be extremely powerful. And I really became committed to art, in part, through that experience. PK: Is that true? WA: Oh, no. I'm not making that up. PK: Were you aware of that at the time? WA: No, not that aware of it. I wasn't aware of it that much at that time. PK: Or is that in looking back you say, "Well, it must have been this that appealed, the power of art"? WA: Well, there was this turbulence about it, and it did gain reactions. I remember my father then, who was a draftsman with the city of Pasadena, bringing home all these drawings he'd done from the Engineering and Street Department there, and my brother and I used to draw on the backs of these. My brother became an architect, I think, in part, because of seeing what was on the front side of those drawings.
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