Abstract—Barb Smalley

This interview is part of the Southern Oral History Program collection at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Other interviews from this collection are available online through www.sohp.org and in the Southern Historical Collection at Wilson Library.

U.16 Long Civil Rights Movement: The Women's Movement in the South

Interview U-0639 Barb Smalley 1 June 2012

Abstract – p. 2 Field Notes – p. 3 Tape Log – p. 4

Interviewee: Barb Smalley

Interviewer: Anna Faison

Interview date: June 1, 2012

Location: Interviewee’s home in Durham, NC

Length 86:44

Upbringing in Columbia, SC, in the 1960s; school integration and her parents’ decision not to join the White Flight; attending school as a significant numerical racial minority from sixth grade until graduation from Kenan High School in 1979; studying at St. John’s College; decision to start coming out during sophomore year at St. John’s; move to Philadelphia shortly after graduation; discovery of feminist bookstore Giovanni’s Room; experience as a Girl Scouts counselor and realization that it was not a feminist organization as she had thought; decision to attend graduate school for sociology at UNC; first awareness of the second-wave feminist practice of “protecting the territory” of Women’s Studies; advisor Sherryl Kleinman’s influence on her as a feminist; her opposite take on a heterosexist view of the world; childhood sense of herself as “other” and emerging awareness of her sexuality throughout her youth; access to a lesbian community through the Girl Scouts; coming out to her family; identity as a feminist; a condition she calls LCFS, or “Lesbian Cultural Fatigue Syndrome”; her comfort at being a racial minority in the neighborhoods she has lived in throughout her life; move to Durham and life in the Burch Avenue, Northgate Park, and Duke Park neighborhoods; beginning of her involvement with Ladyslipper; her most serious romantic relationship; Ladyslipper as a retail mail-order catalogue and wholesale distributor of music to bookstores in the 1990s; shrinking of Ladyslipper for financial reasons; flexibility of Ladyslipper’s operation and her decision to leave full time work there; her job teaching special needs 7th grade math; lesbian community center Our Own Place; Durham’s reputation as a “lesbian mecca” in the South; social life in Durham; her involvement in the formation of the Lesbian Health Resources Center; lesbian sex groups in Durham; placement of herself within the women’s movement over time; gender-normative accommodations; emergence and interconnectedness of her feminist and lesbian identities; her nickname “the Lesbian Mayor of Durham”; her activism with a Lesbian Avengers direct action group; her involvement with the Beaver Queen Pageant, including a history of the pageant and Beaver Lodge 1504; her sense of herself as “failed Southerner”; her view of the South as a venue for working on important social issues, with reference to the recent passing of Amendment One and the far-reaching coalition that emerged to oppose it; feeling that Durham is her home; identity as a social-political lesbian rather than a relationship-oriented lesbian because of her emphasis on a “sense of village.”

Interviewee: Barb Smalley

Interviewer: Anna Faison

Interview date: June 1, 2012

Location: Interviewee’s home in Durham, NC

Length: 86:44

THE INTERVIEWEE. Barb Smalley is a lesbian feminist culture promoter living in Durham. She worked extensively with Ladyslipper Music from 1990 to 2007, most notably as Assistant Executive Director, and helped to found the Lesbian Health Resources Center in Durham in the mid 1990s. In Durham she has also been involved with the lesbian community center Our Own Place, the Beaver Queen Pageant, and a Lesbian Avengers direct action group, among other things. She graduated from St. John’s College with a BA in Liberal Arts and then from UNC-Chapel Hill with an MA in Sociology. Her other jobs have included work as a seventh grade math teacher for special needs students, graduate assistant, and Girl Scouts counselor and program director.

THE INTERVIEWER. Anna Faison is an undergraduate and the 2011 Thomas Wolfe Scholar at UNC-Chapel Hill. She is a Southern Studies major enrolled in Dr. Rachel Seidman’s summer course “The Women’s Movement in the Triangle: Oral History and Civic Engagement.”

DESCRIPTION OF INTERVIEW. The interview took place in the living room of Barb Smalley’s home in Durham, NC, with the interviewer and interviewee sitting on two separate couches with the recorder on a TV tray between them. The recorder was paused at the beginning of the interview as Smalley got up to let her mother, who was sleeping in the next room, know that an interview was taking place. The interview lasted almost an hour and a half, with no requests for the recorder to be turned off. 62 minutes into the interview, Smalley’s German Shepherd walked over and knocked into the TV tray, jostling the recorder. Smalley spoke for long periods very easily and with minimal prompting, beginning with her upbringing in South Carolina and moving chronologically, making connections between those experiences and her current outlook on life, particularly her feeling as “other” or “queer” beginning in middle school. She described her emerging awareness of herself as a lesbian and a feminist and the process of coming out. She discussed her work with Ladyslipper Music along with her work with other lesbian-run organizations in Durham. She often returned to a sense of place and the importance to her of existing within a lesbian community. Discussion continued following the interview, ranging from suggestions for other interviews, educational advice, and an invitation from Smalley to the Beaver Queen Pageant the following day.

Interviewee: Barb Smalley

Interviewer: Anna Faison

Interview June 1, 2012 Date:

Location: Interviewee’s home in Durham, NC

Comments: Only text in quotation marks is verbatim; all other text is paraphrased, including the interviewer’s questions.

TAPE INDEX

Time Topic

[Digital Recording, Starts at Beginning]

0:01 Introduction: Anna Faison introducing Barb Smalley. Interview to discuss her life, experience in Durham, work with Ladyslipper Music.

0:41 Barb Smalley describes early childhood. As a child she believed she was a dog.

1:28 Family moved to Columbia South Carolina when her father got a job with public television. Opened a lot of doors

1:52 Public school and court ordered bussing has a lot to do with who she is today. 4th grade still in white school but there were black children who were bussed in. In 6th grade, her parents did not participate in white flight. She attended Fairwell Annex which was a 6th grade only school with primarily black children

3:33 Active in the Girl Scouts. Parents gave her a super eight movie with projector who made a documentary on pollution. Aware of her privilege.

4:50 Continued in public school education. Everyone thought she had something to do, but graduated from highschool without anywhere to go to college. Ended up going to St. John’s college with the unusual “Great Books” school. Focus on learning how to think critically.

6:17 Way of learning at St. John’s was democratic and an ideal feminist world: “people are really participating together to create understanding.”

Interview number U-0639 from the Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Special Collections Library, UNC-Chapel Hill.

7:07 Beginnings of her identity as a lesbian. Started coming out as a lesbian during her sophomore year at St. Johns. Worked at her Girl Scout summer camp with the RA she had a crush on. Following summer had affair with the camp cook.

8:41 Moved to Philadelphia and began working for the Girl Scouts. Truly began coming out. Lived above a lesbian couple and was reading lesbian literature. Learned that the Girl Scouts were not as progressive as she thought. Placed an ad for Girl Scout camp in a feminist magazine. Lesbian higher up in the organization fired her.

10:57 Came out independently, not in a relationship.

11:11 Considered herself the type of person who should go to graduate school. Pursued sociology at UNC. Began to develop in to her feminist life in the Triangle as she taught the class Sex and Gender in Society. Became interested in a book by Sarah Hoagland titled Lesbian Ethics.

14:30 Went to Barbara Harris with the proposal to direct an undergraduate student’s independent study. As a second wave feminist “protecting the territory and legitimacy” would not allow it.

16:41 Sherryl Kleinman very influential on her Smalley’s life as a feminist. Kleinman did not drive or cook so Smalley went to pick her up for a dinner and first saw her home life. After a year or more of knowing her, Kleinman came out to Smalley as straight. Both love this story because it defeats the heterosexist view of the world.

20:28 Growing up and beginning to develop a sense of otherness. At 11 had her first erotic dream of being excited that Liza Manelly lived across the street. Late bloomer sexually. Never had a marriage fantasy. Very independent. First true understanding and “horrifying crush” was on the RA in her sophomore year of college. In relationships she had with men always able to have her way which began to reinforce that she wasn’t heterosexual.

24:22 Junior year returned to Santa Fe where she came out to her best friend from home. Senior year remained ambiguous. After graduating wasn’t pursuing anything. After moving to Philadelphia and working with the Girl Scouts and participating in activities with other out lesbians.

25:37 Came out to her mother accidentally after telling her about her first time in therapy. Father was harder to come out to because he was bi-polar. He commented on not being able to walk her down the aisle. Mother was concerned she wouldn’t pass on genetic material. Had to remind her

Interview number U-0639 from the Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Special Collections Library, UNC-Chapel Hill. parents how many gay friends they had. Only person in her family she didn’t come out to was her very conservative grandmother. No family trauma.

28:50 Identify self as feminist now, only after coming to North Carolina and forming community reading groups on lesbian ethics. Formed the lesbian health resource center in mid 90s. By 1995 was what people consider a “professional lesbian” after working full time for Ladyslipper. Talked with friend Beth Anne Koelsch about how film shorts were a treatment for her LCFS (Lesbian Cultural Fatigue Syndrome) Living in Duke Park neighborhood there’s a joke that it should be Dyke Park.

32:32 Feeling Queer. Growing up she liked being in the minority. Disliked assumptions of inclusion. Living in Sante Fe in German town where she was surrounded by diversity and liked not being in the majority. Moved to Philidelphia where her neighborhood was “grey.” North Carolina initially lived in Carrboro. Moved to Durham, Burch Ave, in 1993. Always feel more comfortable in places very different from where she grew up and very mixed. She feels more at home with the ability to “pass through an urban neighborhood unnoticed because it’s not homogenous.”

38:42 Ladyslipper involvement began as part-time hours while she was a grad student. After grad school began to work full time in the sales department.

40:44 Jessica Fields, an office mate, convinced Barb not to leave Durham. Barb had thought she was straight, but Jessica became the only lover she lived with and only person she ever felt married to. It was the first person Barb had ever been sought out by.

43: 08 Jessica finished her PHD with a specialty in sexuality studies looking at the abstinence only education law. She managed to get a topic that’s contemporary and long lasting

44:04 Ladyslipper was retail and then wholesale music distribution. When Barb began there was a 15 person staff. Started to run out of funds and cut down the staff, had to figure out how to run down the business. Barb moved on when she ran out of ideas. Like any small business they weren’t in to training, but the reality of music distribution and business was such that she no longer felt helpful.

48:38 Explored lateral entry for teaching. The school was in upheaval and it became challenging. By the end of the year she expressed to her 7th grade math students that her life was not a secret. The response from one of her students was: “It’s true? You’re a stripper?”

Interview number U-0639 from the Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Special Collections Library, UNC-Chapel Hill. 51:09 Ladyslipper decided not to do concert production or listening parties as they use to, the business was becoming bigger and more scattered. Met women who were starting a lesbian community center called “Our Own Place” on Watt Street which then moved to Broad Street. People become territorial.

54:44 Catherine Nicholson, a retired English and Drama teacher, was one of the old lesbians who ran a co-op house. Editor of Sinister Wisdom.

56:49 Durham as a lesbian community starting in the 70s. Barb’s personal move from Carrboro to Durham was because her social life was there.

59:55 Lesbian Gay Health Project folded and turned in to Lesbian Health Resource Center. Focus on information. Lesbian sex group formed which created a workbook for discussion. Barb joined new group that established the model for anonymous questions to all discus in a very informal.

1:04:32 Considers herself more of a “Lazy lesbian feminist” because she doesn’t pursue the issues actively. Barb provides an example of being in the little league soccer world which is not the most feminist setting, but she is able to show the kids that gender is not an big issue.

1:08:12 Seeing herself as a woman and beginning to understand feminine consciousness. Her friend Wendy introduced her to Ms. Magazine while at St. John’s college, but it wasn’t until Philadelphia that she was able to identify as a feminist.

1:12:03 Lesbian avengers formed in Durham, everything revolved around action. Gorilla theater for visibility stemmed introducing themselves as “gardening variety lesbian”

1:15:00 Beaver Queen pageant. Girl friend at the time, who was the first woman she ever dated in Philadelphia 20 years before, became queen. Formed the beaver lodge as a way to not dismantle beavers in a gruesome way. Established an environmental education aspect where it has now developed the double entendras: “keeping your wetlands clean.” Gender and sexuality become completely blurred.

1:20:15 Never thought she would wind up living in the south again, but the Triangle is an oasis. Best of both worlds because we can work on the social issues. The coalition of straight and gay, black and white, atheist and progressive churches were able to band together against amendment one. This is a place where we can actually do that work.

1:23:53 No longer with Jessica Fields because Barb felt at home the moment moving in to Durham. Barb identities as a social, political lesbian more

Interview number U-0639 from the Southern Oral History Program Collection (#4007) at The Southern Historical Collection, The Louis Round Wilson Special Collections Library, UNC-Chapel Hill.