Monday Volume 541 5 March 2012 No. 273 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday 5 March 2012 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2012 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 545 5 MARCH 2012 546 “We’re offering young people the opportunity to…understand House of Commons what the workplace is…really…about and it appears that there is some plan to sabotage this which…is nonsense…it seems …straightforward. You can come in, you can get work experience Monday 5 March 2012 and if you…don’t like it after the first week you can” leave. The House met at half-past Two o’clock Julian Sturdy: Given the importance of schemes such as work experience to giving unemployed people the PRAYERS skills they need to compete in the labour market, especially in the north, will my right hon. Friend update the House on discussions he has had with companies that [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] support the Government in trying to achieve that? Mr Duncan Smith: My right hon. Friend the Minister Oral Answers to Questions of State who has responsibility for employment held a meeting with a number of employers who are part of the scheme, all of whom backed and supported it. They were concerned that the message goes out that the WORK AND PENSIONS scheme benefits young people. One employer who is not a profit-maker—the chief executive of Barnardo’s—said: The Secretary of State was asked— “Scrapping the scheme would have taken a lifeline from thousands of young people.” Work Experience I should also quote a girl called Dawn, who was on the programme after having real trouble finding work. She 1. Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) said that work experience was daunting, but: (Con): What recent assessment he has made of the “It’s work experience—the clue’s in the name. Nobody is going outcomes of his Department’s work experience schemes to give you a job unless you get experience first, and that means for unemployed people. [97688] sometimes working for free”. 17. Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): What recent Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): I assessment he has made of the outcomes of his urge the Secretary of State to sort out the teething problems Department’s work experience schemes for unemployed with the programme—there have been such problems. people. [97707] Will he look at the Morrisons initiative, which is different and overcomes many of the criticisms that have been The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain made of the programme? Will he also be assured that Duncan Smith): Work experience is a very positive scheme, many Opposition Members want a scheme that gets and 51% of people are off benefits 13 weeks after young people into work and work experience rather starting a placement. I am delighted to tell the House than being on the dole? that, notwithstanding the attempts to damage the programme, it remains strong, with another 200 employers, Mr Duncan Smith: I accept the hon. Gentleman’s including Airbus and Centre Parcs, wanting to get positive involvement. I simply say to him that the scheme involved to help young people to gain vital experience as it stands is incredibly positive. More than 50% of of work. those who enter the work experience scheme go into work, many with the employers who took them on for Stephen Metcalfe: Will my right hon. Friend expand work experience. The reason we set up the scheme is on the answer he has just given and tell the House what what young people said, and they told us, ″Our problem other support he has received since the row about work is that when we go to an interview, employers ask us, experience broke out? This vitally important and publicly ’What experience have you got?’ We say, ’We don’t have popular initiative helps young people to get the experience experience.’ They say, ’We can’t employ you.’ But without they need to get into work. Would he echo Sir Stuart employment we can’t get work experience.” I genuinely Rose’s comments that companies involved in the scheme believe from our discussions with employers that the should show some “backbone”and not give in to politically scheme is a positive move, but I will certainly look at the motivated protests? scheme that the hon. Gentleman talks about. Mr Duncan Smith: Before I answer that question, may I pass our message of support to the Chair of the Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): I echo the Secretary Select Committee on Work and Pensions, who has had of State’s good wishes to the Chair of the Work and a terrible accident? We wish her well and a speedy Pensions Committee. recovery to her normal place for Work and Pensions Work experience is a very good thing. The Minister questions. of State has emphasised that the scheme is voluntary—his There has been a lot of support for the work experience U-turn last week underlined that—but jobcentre letters programme. A small number of people, in some cases say the opposite. They say: backed by the unions, have made trouble. I shall quote “If, without good reason, you fail to start, fail to go when Sir Stuart Rose—this is interesting because his successful expected or stop going…Jobseekers Allowance could cease to be career started at the bottom. He said: payable”. 547 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2012 Oral Answers 548 The Department for Work and Pensions website says way to tackle child poverty in the long run is to break the same. Until recently the website also said that the the cycle of dependency now running, in some cases, minimum wage applied unless work experience was into three generations? Many of the measures he has compulsory. That point has mysteriously disappeared mentioned, including work experience schemes, literacy from the site. Will the Secretary of State get a grip, clear programmes, subsidy programmes and so on, are designed up this extraordinary muddle and end the confusion in to do that. his Department? Mr Duncan Smith: I agree with my hon. Friend. We Mr Duncan Smith: I will do a little deal with the right also inherited a system with far too much in-work hon. Gentleman: I will ensure that any little discrepancies poverty. Our aim is to move as many people as possible are sorted out, providing that he and his party step through universal credit and into work, and to ensure forward and publicly welcome the whole idea of the that, through universal credit, they are better off. That work experience programme and condemn the many is the key point. I have also made the point, however, unions, such as Unite, GMB, Unison and others, that that the idea of “poverty plus a pound”, by which we are backing this ludicrous Right to Work programme. just rotate money between people to move them slightly Will the Opposition state that the unions should withdraw above a particular level before they collapse back, is their backing? Last week, we held discussions with a mistake and led to poverty rising on the previous employers, and they asked that no sanctions be taken Government’s watch. unless they say that something has happened to damage the business or cause a problem. We have agreed that in essence, and that is how it will stand. Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab): A recent report by the Children’s Society indicates that there will be a Child Poverty sharp increase in the number of disabled children living in poverty when universal credit is introduced, as a 2. Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): result of the £1,400 a year reduction. All the statistics What steps he plans to take to reduce child poverty by show that poverty disproportionately impacts on families 2015. [97689] with disabled children. Does the Secretary of State think that the current levels of support are too generous? The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain If not, why do the Government continue with this very Duncan Smith): Across Government, we are investing in harsh proposal? a range of programmes to tackle the drivers of child poverty. Universal credit alone will lift 350,000 children Mr Duncan Smith: It is my belief that universal credit out of poverty. The previous Labour Government spent will hugely help people in those situations, and the £150 billion on tax credits from 2004-2010, much of transitional protection for them will also protect those which was targeted at families with children, but despite who move on to a slightly different level. My main point that, as the Institute for Fiscal Studies noted recently, to the hon. Lady, who I know takes this very seriously— we are still a long way off hitting the targets. There is still much to be done. Mrs McGuire: Right honourable. Mr Cunningham: Is the Secretary of State aware that, according to the IFS, the Government will not reach Mr Duncan Smith: I beg her pardon. I say to the right their statutory target by 2015? Equally importantly, is hon. Lady—quite rightly so and well deserved—that we he aware that of the 35,000 children in Coventry and are in the business of trying to secure life change Warwickshire whose families are on the poverty line through all these groups so that they can take control of and will experience a reduction of £1,400 a year, many their lives.