E PL UR UM IB N U U S Congressional Record United States th of America PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES OF THE 105 CONGRESS, SECOND SESSION

Vol. 144 WASHINGTON, THURSDAY, APRIL 23, 1998 No. 46 House of Representatives The House met at 10 a.m. and was PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE keep the environment safe from the called to order by the Speaker pro tem- The SPEAKER pro tempore. Will the dangers of transporting high-level nu- pore (Mr. EWING). gentleman from Nebraska (Mr. BEREU- clear waste through their commu- nities. f TER) come forward and lead the House in the Pledge of Allegiance. What better way to celebrate every DESIGNATION OF THE SPEAKER Mr. BEREUTER led the Pledge of Al- day as Earth Day than to stop the PRO TEMPORE legiance as follows: needless transportation through our I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the communities of the deadliest material The SPEAKER pro tempore laid be- United States of America, and to the Repub- on earth. fore the House the following commu- lic for which it stands, one nation under God, I urge my colleagues to use science, nication from the Speaker: indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. not the politics of emotion, in support- WASHINGTON, DC, f ing Earth Day. April 23, 1998. ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER I hereby designate the Honorable THOMAS f W. EWING to act as Speaker pro tempore on PRO TEMPORE this day. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The NEWT GINGRICH, COMMANDOS FINALLY RECEIVING Chair will entertain ten 1-minute Speaker of the House of Representatives. JUSTICE speeches on each side. f f (Ms. SANCHEZ asked and was given permission to address the House for 1 PRAYER IN NEVADA EVERY DAY IS EARTH minute and to revise and extend her re- DAY The Chaplain, Reverend James David marks.) Ford, D.D., offered the following (Mr. GIBBONS asked and was given Ms. SANCHEZ. Mr. Speaker, for the prayer: permission to address the House for 1 past year, I have been working to en- Of all Your wonderful gifts to us, and minute and to revise and extend his re- sure that the United States Govern- of all Your blessings so freely given, we marks.) ment honor a 30-year-old debt to offer our thanks and praise to You, O Mr. GIBBONS. Mr. Speaker, today I former South Vietnamese Army com- God, for the gifts of wisdom and dis- rise to remind my colleagues and our mandos, who worked for the U.S. Gov- cernment. We recognize that knowing guests that yesterday was Earth Day. ernment during the Vietnam War. And only the details and facts of our cir- Interestingly enough, as I look back, these individuals were recruited by the cumstances is not enough, not enough last week Chicago residents protested United States to cross enemy lines and to make good judgments, or to under- and stopped a shipment of napalm from fight the Communists on behalf of the stand decisions. Teach us again, Gra- coming through their area. I am so Americans. cious God, those values and ideals that pleased to know that the Federal Gov- Last year, Congress unanimously ap- have strengthened our Nation in days ernment is so committed to preserving proved legislation to finally pay the 30- past, and which values and ideals will and maintaining the environment that year-old debt, and I am very happy to illumine our minds and help us to see they have dedicated a whole 24 hours in announce that the long wait for rec- more clearly the meaning and purpose its honor. ognition and compensation may be fi- of life. For wisdom in our decisions and Well, Mr. Speaker, in Nevada every nally over for the commandos. for discernment in our judgments, we day is Earth Day, and the hard-work- To date, the Commando Compensa- pray this day. Amen. ing men and women of Nevada are so tion Board has processed 266 claims. dedicated to maintaining the environ- One hundred forty-two commando f ment that they fight each and every cases have been approved, and these in- day to stop 70,000 tons of high-level nu- dividuals are finally receiving their THE JOURNAL clear waste from being shoved down compensation. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The their throats. I am pleased that the U.S. Govern- Chair has examined the Journal of the I was encouraged by the overwhelm- ment is finally honoring their con- last day’s proceedings and announces ing demonstration of support for Earth tracts for their years of service and for to the House his approval thereof. Day from my colleagues on both sides their bravery in service to the United Pursuant to clause 1, rule I, the Jour- of the aisle. Consequently, I greatly an- States. The least we must do is keep nal stands approved. ticipate their support in our effort to our word.

b This symbol represents the time of day during the House proceedings, e.g., b 1407 is 2:07 p.m. Matter set in this typeface indicates words inserted or appended, rather than spoken, by a Member of the House on the floor.

H2239 H2240 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998

I look forward to the day that all of by Speaker GINGRICH and the Repub- of President Clinton’s private attor- these cases are closed and every single lican leadership. neys have hired or authorized any pri- commando receives his justice. f vate investigator to look into the f background of prosecutors or reporters. TIME TO REIGN IN THE IRS Now, let us listen to that quote JAPAN’S ROLE IN THE ASIAN again, and let us think about whether FINANCIAL CRISIS (Mr. PITTS asked and was given per- mission to address the House for 1 we should keep on doing our business (Mr. BEREUTER asked and was minute and to revise and extend his re- and ignore the White House deception given permission to address the House marks.) and deceit, because, hey, the stock for 1 minute and to revise and extend Mr. PITTS. Mr. Speaker, although market is doing just great. The President’s press secretary de- his remarks.) the Liberals just hate to bash the IRS, nied any of President Clinton’s private Mr. BEREUTER. Mr. Speaker, the ordinary Americans who pay taxes attorneys have hired or authorized any world is closely watching Japan to de- have no other choice. private investigators to look into the termine if that country’s leaders can Consider this: In Fortune Magazine backgrounds of prosecutors or report- steer the world’s second largest econ- recently it says that there were 119 ers. But it turns out that the private omy clear of recession. The implica- million returns filed in the tax year investigator himself, Terry Lenzner, tions of their action or inaction is 1996. Those returns triggered 28 million admitted that he had, indeed, been enormous for Japan itself, for the re- error notices. It turns out that one in hired by the White House to look into gional and global economy, and for the 11 of those error notices was itself in United States. Today at 1:30, in 2172 the private lives of journalists, Federal error. So the IRS is routinely wrong investigators and anyone else the Rayburn, the Subcommittee on Asia about your being wrong. and the Pacific, and the Subcommittee White House wants to smear. Now, I did not learn arithmetic using Finally, someone in the employ of on International Economic Policy and ‘‘whole math’’ like our lucky kids Trade hear testimony on this subject, the White House has the integrity to today, but I come up with about 2.5 tell the truth. I guess the 900 FBI files and on the legislation offered by this million IRS errors, 2.5 million times Member, the gentleman from Califor- illegally obtained were not enough dirt when the IRS is accusing you of being for them to dig up. nia, Representative BERMAN and oth- a tax cheat, when, in fact, you are just ers, from four experts on Japan’s role Mr. Speaker, we have a President hir- one more falsely accused taxpayer by ing private investigators and then hav- in the Asian financial crisis. the IRS. This Member urges interested Mem- ing his spokesman misrepresent the The IRS is a place that does not oper- truth about it. I think when the Amer- bers to send their staff and to read the ate under the same rules as society ican people understand this, both Re- summary in the CONGRESSIONAL does. The IRS can accuse, make de- publicans and Democrats alike will be RECORD on this important and timely mands, confiscate, shut down, and outraged. hearing so that we can all learn more make you prove that the IRS is wrong. f about Japan’s enormous role in our And when the IRS is wrong, well, tough own future, and to review the sugges- luck. ENSURE CAMPAIGN FINANCE tions of what Japan must do to ensure Mr. Speaker, it is time to rein in the REFORM OCCURS that the future is bright for all of us. IRS. (Mr. DOGGETT asked and was given f f permission to address the House for 1 REAL CAMPAIGN FINANCE minute and to revise and extend his re- REFORM COMMON SENSE LACKING IN marks.) POLITICIANS IN WASHINGTON, D.C. Mr. DOGGETT. Mr. Speaker, I be- (Mr. PALLONE asked and was given (Mr. TRAFICANT asked and was lieve that the millions of Americans permission to address the House for 1 who want some real change in the way minute and to revise and extend his re- given permission to address the House for 1 minute and to revise and extend our campaign finance system works marks.) and want to reduce the corrupting in- Mr. PALLONE. Mr. Speaker, I want his remarks.) Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Speaker, in fluence of money on our political sys- to congratulate my Democratic col- tem can be encouraged by the sudden leagues and the Democratic leadership America, Communists can work in our reversal yesterday of Speaker GINGRICH for a successful effort to push Speaker defense plants, illegal immigrants who jump the fence can get citizenship, and his announcement that we would, GINGRICH and the Republicans, and within the next 3 weeks, act on this force them to bring up real campaign there are law libraries for mass mur- derers; some want free condoms for floor in a fair, bipartisan way to ad- finance reform. dress the problems that are so critical Speaker GINGRICH tried to get around school children, and some now want free needles for drug addicts. Think in this system. his promise to bring up campaign fi- However, I think all of us have to nance reform by posting a phony bill about it. Free condoms, free needles, but in America, no school prayer. Is it wonder whether this represents only with a sham procedure just before the another New Hampshire handshake. April Congressional recess. Democrats any wonder the streets of America are full of narcotics and blood? Americans will remember that it was responded by signing a discharge peti- back in 1995 in New Hampshire that tion, and forcing the Republican lead- The founders believed that a Nation without prayer would be a Nation with- Speaker GINGRICH promised President ership’s hand. Clinton there would be action then on Our Democratic leader, the gen- out God. I agree. The Congress should pass school prayer. campaign finance reform. tleman from Missouri (Mr. GEPHARDT), We have had one broken promise, one I yield back the balance of any com- was right when he said yesterday this bit of double talk, doublecrossing after mon sense left in any of the politicians was not a conversion, but a retreat by another on this issue since then. So we in Washington, D.C. Speaker GINGRICH. He now promises to must remain vigilant and involved to bring up campaign finance reform f ensure that real reform occurs here, again in May. OUTRAGE OVER WHITE HOUSE and not more talk and doubletalk. Mr. Speaker, Democrats have to be f vigilant and hold Speaker GINGRICH to HIRING OF PRIVATE INVESTIGA- his promise. Campaign finance reform TORS EL PASO QUADRICENTENNIAL needs to be brought up with an open (Mr. TIAHRT asked and was given FESTIVAL rule so that Members have an oppor- permission to address the House for 1 (Mr. REYES asked and was given per- tunity to vote on proposals that will minute and to revise and extend his re- mission to address the House for 1 limit the amount of money in political marks.) minute and to revise and extend his re- campaigns, and not allow more money Mr. TIAHRT. Mr. Speaker, on Feb- marks.) from wealthy special interests, and ruary 22, 1998, White House Press Sec- Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, beginning that is, of course, the position favored retary Mike McCurry denied that any tomorrow, April 24 through April 26, April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2241 the city of El Paso, Texas, will host the program, or is he going to talk about COMMEMORATING FROSTBURG El Paso Quadricentennial Festival. something else today? STATE UNIVERSITY’S CENTEN- This festival is an international cele- f NIAL ANNIVERSARY bration, bringing together representa- (Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland asked tives from Spain, Mexico and other na- THE PEOPLE STILL WANT COM- and was given permission to address tions around the world to join in cele- PREHENSIVE CAMPAIGN FI- the House for 1 minute and to revise brating the 400th anniversary of the ex- NANCE REFORM and extend his remarks.) pedition of the Spanish explorer, Don (Mr. FARR of California asked and Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland. Mr. Juan de Onate, through the Southwest. was given permission to address the Speaker, I rise to commend an extraor- His exploration began in January of House for 1 minute and to revise and dinary community and its school. 1598, when he and 400 other men and extend his remarks.) Frostburg State University in women traveled from Mexico through Mr. FARR of California. Mr. Speaker, Frostburg, Maryland, celebrates its the present day El Paso, Texas. After law enforcement in my district sup- 100th anniversary this Sunday. numerous hardships during their jour- ports needle exchange. Frostburg State University began as ney, the expedition arrived along the Mr. Speaker, I rise today to point out a community dream. Actually, it was banks of the Rio Grande River in April that the majority party controls this the community coal miners’ dream. It of 1598. House. This is the people’s House. This was a dream that all parents dream for In gratitude for surviving their dif- is where people’s voices can be heard, their children: a better life than theirs. ficult travel and finding water along because everybody here has to be elect- They knew the key to this dream was the Rio Grande, they observed a feast ed. We cannot run away from that re- education. and celebrated with local Indians. This sponsibility. These concerned parents made a deal historical event is considered the first When the Democrats controlled this with the State legislature. The deal? If Thanksgiving, which occurred 22 years House, we passed out several times, the coal miners could raise the money before the pilgrims landed at Plym- three times, in fact, campaign finance to buy the land for a State normal outh, Massachusetts. reform, comprehensive campaign fi- school, the General Assembly would Mr. Speaker, it is important for our nance reform. The last of those bills to appropriate funds for the buildings. Nation to recognize this 400th anniver- reach the President’s desk was vetoed These parents literally went door-to- sary. I am proud that El Paso is by President Bush. The people still door collecting money from their hosting this International Commemo- want comprehensive campaign finance neighbors to keep their end of the deal. ration, as it enhances our country’s un- reform. Their pressure now gives this In April of 1898, the General Assembly derstanding of the extensive influence House a second chance, after the lead- of Maryland appropriated the funds for of the Spanish language and culture on ership orchestrated a defeat by a two- Maryland Normal School No. 2, which our heritage and origins of this Nation. thirds vote and by scheduling it on a was built and opened its doors to 57 f day when one of the Members, a former students. b 1015 Member, had a funeral. Today, Frostburg State University So, Mr. Speaker, I ask Members to enrolls more than 5,000 undergraduate CONGRESS NEEDS TO STAND FIRM keep watching. Will we get a com- and graduate students and helps tens of AGAINST THE WHITE HOUSE ON prehensive campaign reform or will we thousands of dreams come true. Con- FREE NEEDLE PROGRAM see another orchestrated defeat? gratulations, Frostburg State Univer- (Mr. BOB SCHAFFER of Colorado f sity. asked and was given permission to ad- f dress the House for 1 minute and to re- PAY-GO MUST GO vise and extend his remarks.) (Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas asked WE CAN TRUST AMERICANS TO Mr. BOB SCHAFFER of Colorado. and was given permission to address DECIDE ON CAMPAIGN FINANCE Mr. Speaker, many people remember the House for 1 minute and to revise REFORM the President’s Surgeon General claim- and extend his remarks.) (Mr. WELDON of Florida asked and ing that the answer to youth violence Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas. Mr. was given permission to address the was safer guns and safer bullets; that Speaker, I want to talk about another House for 1 minute and to revise and the answer to sexual promiscuity ridiculous Washington budget rule extend his remarks.) among America’s youth is condoms in called pay-go. This rule promotes big Mr. WELDON of Florida. Mr. Speak- schools. Now we have the answer to the government spending while Americans er, I would like to respond to the dis- escalating drug problem in America pay taxes, higher taxes, as a matter of ingenuous statements made by liberal coming out of the White House, free fact. Under pay-go, if we eliminated colleagues on the other side of the needles to heroin addicts. Imagine every welfare big government program, aisle. The other side talks as if one side that, Mr. Speaker, government-sub- we could not give any of those savings of the aisle is on the side of the angels sidized free needles to heroin addicts. back to the American people in the and supports campaign finance reform I submit the following: Any Presi- form of tax relief because of our own and the other side is against campaign dent who supports and would promote rules. It means we have to raise taxes finance reform. How ironic that the the subsidization of free needles to her- to lower taxes. We have to change our side that made a mockery of campaign oin addicts is just as guilty as any drug rules. finance reform laws in the 1996 elec- pusher or any drug user who causes Yesterday the gentleman from Ari- tions now feels qualified to adopt a death and destruction among Ameri- zona (Mr. J.D. HAYWORTH) and I intro- holier-than-thou attitude on this issue. ca’s communities today. duced a bill just to do that. We must be The truth is that the reforms that This level of social decay is unac- able to cut big government spending, they are seeking are not even constitu- ceptable. This Congress needs to stand get Washington out of Americans’ tional, which I guess is not surprising, firm against the White House. The lives, and give the money back to the given that post-sixties liberals are no partnership for a Drug-Free America American people. After all, it is your longer champions of free speech. The has met its match. The White House dollars. liberals want to limit political speech. and the heroin industry formed the It is wrong that we cannot, for exam- We do not. I think the American people partnership for free drugs in America. ple, cut a $3 million TV documentary are well qualified to decide this issue, Common sense needs to rule the day. on infrastructure awareness and use once they know the facts. We need to stand firm. that same money to eliminate the mar- f In a minute another member of the riage penalty tax. Do Members not President’s party is going to step to think families are more important PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT LEADS the microphone, and I want to ask di- than welfare government programs? TO A BETTER AMERICA rectly, is he going to stand with Ameri- Pay-go is a stumbling block to good (Mr. NEUMANN asked and was given cans against this free needle exchange government. It must go. permission to address the House for 1 H2242 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 minute and to revise and extend his re- Member offering an amendment has caused cost of living adjustments for Federal marks.) it to be printed in the portion of the Con- judges are implemented. The effect of Mr. NEUMANN. Mr. Speaker, it is a gressional Record designated for that pur- that section would have been to create pose in clause 6 of rule XXIII. Amendments a new mandatory spending category in very special day here in Washington, so printed shall be considered as read. The D.C. I rise to extend a special welcome chairman of the Committee of the Whole the budget, something that we tried to a group of students that are out may: (1) postpone until a time during further not to do outside the normal congres- here, about 100 students from the Ju- consideration in the Committee of the Whole sional budget process. neau School. It is a school where par- a request for a recorded vote on any amend- Apart from the substance of that ents are actively involved. There are ment; and (2) reduce to five minutes the min- issue relating to pay for judges, the students here from Juneau, Hustisford, imum time for electronic voting on any post- Committee on Rules has attempted in and Dodgeland, and we would like to poned question that follows another elec- this rule to preserve the integrity of tronic vote without intervening business, express a special welcome to them this the budget process. provided that the minimum time for elec- Mr. Speaker, the rule further pro- morning. tronic voting on the first in any series of I think it provides an opportunity to questions shall be 15 minutes. At the conclu- vides that each section of the amend- talk about the fact that where parents sion of consideration of the bill for amend- ment in the nature of a substitute shall are involved in the school and where ment the Committee shall rise and report be considered as read, and it waives parents are actively involved in their the bill to the House with such amendments points of order against that amend- kids’ lives, America benefits. as may have been adopted. Any Member may ment for failure to comply with clause demand a separate vote in the House on any 7 of rule XVI prohibiting nongermane When we look at a school with stu- amendment adopted in the Committee of the dents like what we have here this amendments, or section 303(a) of the Whole to the bill or to the amendment in the Congressional Budget Act, for the rea- morning, where the parents are ac- nature of a substitute made in order as origi- tively involved in the lives of these nal text. The previous question shall be con- sons I just explained. The rule accords priority in recogni- kids, we find that there is a dramatic sidered as ordered on the bill and amend- tion to Members who have caused their drop in the probability of these stu- ments thereto to final passage without inter- amendments to be preprinted in the dents being involved in crime. We find vening motion except one motion to recom- mit with or without instructions. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, assuming a drop in the drug use rate. We find a those amendments are in accordance drop in teen pregnancies in their fu- The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. EWING). The gentleman from Florida with the standing rules of the House. ture. We find less teen smoking. All the It further provides that the chairman problems do not go away, but we sure (Mr. GOSS) is recognized for 1 hour. Mr. GOSS. Mr. Speaker, for purposes of the Committee of the Whole may recognize and understand that when of debate only, I yield the customary 30 postpone votes during consideration of the parents are actively involved in minutes to my friend, the distin- the bill and reduce the voting time to their kids’ lives, like what happens at guished gentleman from Ohio (Mr. 5 minutes on a postponed question if the school that is out here today, that HALL), pending which I yield myself the vote follows a 15-minute vote; and, certainly leads to a better America for such time as I may consume. During finally, as is the custom, the rule pro- all citizens. consideration of this resolution, all vides for one motion to recommit, with f time yielded is for purpose of debate on or without instructions. That explains this subject only. the rule. JUDICIAL REFORM ACT OF 1998 Mr. Speaker, House Resolution 408 is Now, Mr. Speaker, with the exception Mr. GOSS. Mr. Speaker, by direction an open rule providing for the consider- of the technical Budget Act fix, this is of the Committee on Rules, I call up ation of H.R. 1252, the Judicial Reform a very straightforward rule. It is fair, House Resolution 408 and ask for its Act of 1998. The rule provides the cus- and it is wide open. It allows all Mem- immediate consideration. tomary 1 hour of general debate, equal- bers the chance to offer germane The Clerk read the resolution, as fol- ly divided between the chairman and amendments and conduct thoughtful lows: ranking minority member of the Com- discussion about a very important sub- H. RES. 408 mittee on the Judiciary. ject. Resolved, That at any time after the adop- The rule waives points of order I strongly support the premise behind tion of this resolution the Speaker may, pur- against the consideration of the bill for this bill, that it is time to control judi- suant to clause 1(b) of rule XXIII, declare the failure to comply with section 303(a) of cial activism, the so-called runaway House resolved into the Committee of the the Congressional Budget Act, which judges on the Federal bench. This Whole House on the state of the Union for prohibits consideration of legislation statement alone is usually enough to consideration of the bill (H.R. 1252) to modify providing new budget authority, generate controversy in many circles, the procedures of the Federal courts in cer- changes in revenues, or changes in the and this debate is by no means a simple tain matters, and for other purposes. The public debt for a fiscal year until the one, as it involves many of the most first reading of the bill shall be dispensed with. Points of order against consideration budget resolution for that year has basic tenets of our democratic system of the bill for failure to comply with section been agreed to. and the separation of powers. The purpose of that section of the 303(a) of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974 b 1030 are waived. General debate shall be confined Budget Act is a sound one that we gen- to the bill and shall not exceed one hour erally try to adhere to, keeping the I think we could all come up with an- equally divided and controlled by the chair- budget process moving forward in a ecdotal evidence that there have been man and ranking minority member of the commonsense direction, with the budg- problems within the Federal judiciary Committee on the Judiciary. After general et resolution coming first and then al- with judges exceeding their charter and debate the bill shall be considered for lowing for subsequent consideration of authority. The Committee on the Judi- amendment under the five-minute rule. It the legislation that implements the ciary has, in my view, put forth a re- shall be in order to consider as an original sponsible product that deals with these bill for the purpose of amendment under the provisions of the budget resolution. five-minute rule the amendment in the na- In this case, however, we are tech- problems by focusing on specific prac- ture of a substitute recommended by the nically required to provide this waiver, tices within the Federal courts that to- Committee on the Judiciary now printed in but our Committee on Rules has also gether constitute a real threat to the the bill, modified by striking section 9 (and provided a fix for the Budget Act prob- rights of citizens and the prerogatives redesignating succeeding sections accord- lem. We have done that by making in of this Congress. ingly). Each section of that amendment in order under this rule the amendment in In my view, this legislation con- the nature of a substitute shall be considered the nature of a substitute rec- stitutes a measured and carefully justi- as read. Points of order against that amend- ommended by the Committee on the fied response to legitimate problems. It ment in the nature of a substitute for failure Judiciary, modified by striking section is not simply throwing down the gaunt- to comply with clause 7 of rule XVI or sec- tion 303(a) of the Congressional Budget Act 9 of that amendment which caused the let. It is coming up with responsible so- of 1974 are waived. During consideration of 303(a) problem and redesignating suc- lutions, which we will have ample op- the bill for amendment, the Chairman of the ceeding sections accordingly. portunity to debate under an open rule. Committee of the Whole may accord priority Section 9 of the amendment specifi- I applaud the gentleman from Illinois in recognition on the basis of whether the cally deals with the process by which (Mr. HYDE), and the subcommittee April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2243 chairman, the gentleman from North Mr. GOSS. Mr. Speaker, I would be This amendment would permit a federal court Carolina (Mr. COBLE) for their work on very happy to afford the gentleman an to enter an order restricting the disclosure of this bill. Still, I know that many Mem- extra minute or so if he is aware that information obtained through discovery or an bers have concerns about specific pro- those Members are coming. order restricting access to court records in a visions of the legislation. Those Mem- Mr. HALL of Ohio. I am not aware. I civil case only after making a finding of fact bers will have their opportunity to air was just asked, before we started, they that such order would not restrict the disclo- their concerns and propose alterations asked to speak on it. They have not ar- sure of information which is relevant to the during the open debate and amendment rived. protection of public health and safety. I am process established by this rule. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. glad that this rule includes my amendment but I urge support for the rule and the Speaker, will the gentleman yield? it should have included amendments that im- underlying bill. I look forward to a Mr. GOSS. I yield to the gentleman prove and increase Federal judicial compensa- lively and informative debate. from Massachusetts. tion. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance my time. Speaker, I will be managing the bill on of my time, and I move the previous Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I our side. I think Members will have question on the resolution. yield myself such time as I may con- general debate. There will be an hour The previous question was ordered. sume. I want to thank my colleague for of general debate that is not going to The resolution was agreed to. yielding me the time. be overfilled with requests for time. I A motion to reconsider was laid on This is an open rule. It will allow for think they can be accommodated. the table. full and fair debate on H.R. 1252, which Mr. GOSS. Reclaiming my time, if it The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. is the bill that modifies certain proce- is my time, I understand, and we have KNOLLENBERG). Pursuant to House Res- dures of the Federal courts. no speakers, and we are going to yield olution 408 and rule XXIII, the Chair As my colleague from Florida de- back in about a minute, and call for declares the House in the Committee of scribed, this rule provides for 1 hour of the question. We are not intending to the Whole House on the State of the general debate equally divided and con- call for a recorded vote. We believe trolled by the chairman and the rank- Union for the consideration of the bill, that it is an open rule, and there is no H.R. 1252. ing minority member of the Committee need to do that. on the Judiciary. The rule allows The Chair designates the gentleman We also agree with the distinguished from California (Mr. RIGGS) as Chair- amendments under the 5-minute rule, gentleman from the Commonwealth of which is the normal amending process man of the Committee of the Whole, Massachusetts that there is ample de- and requests the gentleman from Illi- in the House. All Members on both bate opportunity today because of this sides of the aisle will have the oppor- nois (Mr. EWING) to assume the chair very fair open rule that we have craft- temporarily. tunity to offer amendments. ed. We are certainly looking forward to Judicial decisions that force govern- b 1042 that debate, and would not want to put ment action by their nature are un- any impediment to it. Unfortunately, IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE popular. If those actions were popular, we are not quite logistically prepared Accordingly the House resolved itself then the legislature and the adminis- to begin the debate. into the Committee of the Whole House trations would have already taken Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. on the State of the Union for the con- them. Some of those unpopular deci- Speaker, if the gentleman will con- sideration of the bill (H.R. 1252) to sions have resulted in the protection of tinue to yield, I thank the gentleman. modify the procedures of the Federal our health, safety and civil rights. In I thought I would help him because he courts in certain matters, and for other recent years, some judges have as- seems to be in no great hurry. We are purposes, with Mr. EWING (Chairman sumed broad powers traditionally re- not waiting for the Speaker to come pro tempore) in the Chair. served for the legislative and the exec- back from Florida again, are we, like The Clerk read the title of the bill. utive branches of State and local gov- yesterday? The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- ernment. There is merit in some of the Mr. GOSS. Reclaiming my time, Mr. ant to the rule, the bill is considered as criticism of these actions when the re- Speaker, I am delighted that the gen- having been read the first time. sult is an antigovernment backlash tleman brought the Speaker’s trip to Under the rule, the gentleman from that weakens support for government. Florida up. It shows the outreach that North Carolina (Mr. COBLE) and the But if this is a real problem, then the we have in this House to go to the im- gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. answer is really not this bill. I think portant States in our Nation, Florida FRANK), each will control 30 minutes. the bill threatens to undermine the being the fourth most populace State, The Chair recognizes the gentleman independence of the Federal judiciary and a place where we will all go sooner from North Carolina (Mr. COBLE). and reduce efficiency. The Attorney or later, which we are very proud to Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield General will recommend to the Presi- represent, those of us who are there myself such time as I may consume. dent that he veto the bill if it is passed now. I believe the Speaker has returned H.R. 1252, the Judicial Reform Act of in its current form. Mr. Speaker, even from Florida, and has done brilliant 1998, is a restrained but purposeful ef- though the bill is flawed, there is noth- things there. fort to combat specific areas of abuse ing wrong with this rule. It is open. It Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Speaker, that exist within the Federal judiciary. should be supported. I support it. Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of I come before you today to speak to you The gentleman from Illinois (Mr. my time. about an important rule on an important piece HYDE), as he spoke to the Committee Mr. GOSS. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- of legislation. I am pleased that this rule is an on Rules yesterday, said this bill per- self such time as I may consume. open rule and that both Democrats and Re- haps goes too far for some Members, May I inquire of my colleague publicans are able to come together on the not far enough for others. But that is through the Chair if he has any speak- floor of the House and offer reasonable com- not unlike much legislation that we ers? We have none, and we would just mon sense amendments that improve this bill. consider in this hall. as soon get on with the debate, and However, I am disturbed that the judicial pay Before describing what the bill does, yield the balance of the time, if that raise amendments were not made a part of however, let me emphasize what it does fits with the pattern from the other this rule. The Federal Judges do alot more not do; namely, it will not compromise side. than just come to work. They interpret the law the independence of the Federal judici- Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, will and preserve justice. Increasing Federal judi- ary, which is an indispensable at- the gentleman yield? cial compensation is important because the tribute for that branch of the Federal Mr. GOSS. I yield to the gentleman Federal Judiciary is composed of men and Government, nor is H.R. 1252 an at- from Ohio. women who give up alot of money to work in tempt to influence or overturn legal Mr. HALL of Ohio. Mr. Speaker, I the public sector. We all know that they give disputes. Above all, we most certainly had expected two speakers, but they up alot for this special type of public service are not creating a novel, more lenient have not shown up. Therefore, I will and they should be justly compensated for it. standard of impeachment to remove yield back the balance of my time. I have an amendment that was made in order. particular judges from the Federal H2244 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 bench without cause or to intimidate colleague Dan Lungren, who presently very proud of that. The intellectual them with a threat of doing so. That serves as Attorney General for Califor- property jurisdiction we have is an im- said, the Judiciary Reform Act of 1998 nia, to create a procedural right for a portant one, and we have had some ju- is largely an amalgam of ideas devel- litigant to request one time only that dicial reform bills. oped by various Members of Congress a different judge be assigned to his or This bill does not, however, conform that will curtail certain abusive prac- her case. Some judges are so possessed to that pattern. This is an exception in tices within our Federal court system. of an injudicious temperament or are that it is one on which I think we have Specifically, the bill consists of six otherwise biased as to warrant this re- some fairly sharp division, and the rea- procedural changes in furtherance of vision. son we have the division I think frank- this end. In addition, the four other re- Sixth, it is has come to our attention ly stems from some frustration on the forms that will improve other matters that some Federal judges are unalter- part of some of those on the other side. related to article 3, Federal courts. The ably opposed to enforcing the death There are people particularly in the six core revisions set forth in the bill penalty, even to the point of dragging very conservative wing of the Repub- concern the following matters: their feet on expeditious consideration lican party, which I must say has out- First, a featured component of the of habeas corpus petitions to forestall grown wing status. It is now at least a bill was initially developed by our col- execution. Based on comments made by wing and a tail and maybe another league and good friend, the late Sonny the gentleman from Massachusetts wing and a couple of beaks. They do Bono. It would require three judge pan- (Mr. DELAHUNT), this section of the bill not like some of the things that the els to hear constitutional challenges of would prevent the chief justice of a cir- courts do. I believe that their problem, State laws enacted pursuant to voter cuit from reserving all such petitions however, is not so much with the referenda. Under current law, a single for one judge on an exclusive basis. courts as with the Constitution. And judge possesses the power to invalidate Mr. Chairman, there are three other there is not a great deal we can do the results of a State-wide referendum. items contained in the Judicial Reform about the Constitution. We try. Second, H.R. 1252 would permit inter- Act that do not otherwise speak to We recently have sought on the floor, locutory or interim appeal of class-ac- abusive judicial practices but will at least some have sought on the floor, tion certifications championed by the nonetheless improve the functioning of to amend the Constitution with great gentleman from Florida (Mr. CANADY). our Federal courts. They are: regularity and with equal lack of suc- This provision would enable litigants One, the permitted practice of tele- cess. The Congress has voted down half to a class-action suit to appeal a deci- vising proceedings in our Federal ap- a dozen or more efforts to change the sion certifying a national class prior to pellate courts and, for a 3-year period, Constitution. Not being able to change the conclusion of a trial. in our district or trial courts, sug- the Constitution, the people in the con- Currently, defendants may expend a gested to at the discretion of the pre- servative wing of the Republican party great deal of financial resources siding judge; have decided to demonize it instead through trial only to find upon appeal Second, the expedited consolidation and to denounce the judges. But there that a class was improperly certified at of cases pertaining to complex, multi- is a great disconnect between the vio- the outset of litigation. Third, the district disaster litigation; lence of the rhetoric and the actuality measure infuses greater objectivity in And, third, the allowance of an addi- of the legislation. the current process by which citizens tional 30 days, or a total of 60 days, for I am going to vote against this bill. I may register complaints against Fed- the Office of Personnel Management to am glad that the President plans to eral judges for misconduct. appeal adverse personnel decisions con- veto it if we pass it as-is, although we Present law on the subject is pre- sistent with appellate procedure for could make it passable under some as- mised on a peer review system by other Federal agencies. pects of the bill which I think are very judges from the same circuit. Pursuant Again, Mr. Chairman, these provi- useful. But even if it were to pass, it to the change set forth in this bill be- sions are straightforward and re- would have virtually no effect on the fore us, complaints which do not speak strained in their application and will kinds of things that people complain to the merits of a decision, or are not assist in promoting equity for litigants of. otherwise frivolous will be referred to a and taxpayers within the Federal court In fact, one of the most interesting different circuit. system. I urge all Members to support facts is that, while people on the con- passage of H.R. 1252. servative side complain about this bill b 1045 Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance because they say it empowers an inap- This means that truly substantive of my time. propriate form of judicial activism, it complaints will be more objectively re- Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- is very clear if we study this that they viewed by judges who have no personal sent that the bill be open for amend- simply do not like the results. They ties to the judge who is the subject of ment at any point. simply do not like courts finding that the complaint. The gentleman from The CHAIRMAN. That request by the this or that statute might not be per- Tennessee (Mr. BRYANT) and the gen- gentleman may be made after general missible under the Constitution. Be- tleman from Indiana (Mr. PEASE) con- debate has concluded and the Commit- cause if we look at the judges who have tributed to this section of the bill. tee begins the 5-minute rule. been judicial activists, what we find, of Fourth, H.R. 1252 would inhibit the Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. course, is that the most conservative ability of Federal courts to require Chairman, I yield myself such time as justices of the Supreme Court, for ex- States and local municipalities to raise I may consume. ample, are also the most judicially ac- taxes on the affected citizenry to pay Let me say, I appreciate the gen- tive. for projects that the States and mu- tleman making the request. Because Justices Scalia and Thomas, the two nicipalities are unwilling to fund them- even though it cannot be acted on until most conservative justices, strongly selves. the 5-minute rule begins, Members who supported by the conservatives, have in While a Federal court may possess may be interested should know it is fact voted to invalidate more statutes, the technical right under certain con- our intention to have amendments be to find more acts of Congress unconsti- ditions to devise such a remedy to re- in order at any point so they do not tutional than their more moderate and dress a constitutional harm, we have have to worry about a section-by-sec- liberal counterparts. If in fact they carefully crafted some parameters that tion reading. I do not believe we have a think it is a terrible idea for the Su- will constrain the practice of judicial large number of amendments. preme Court to strike down statutes, taxation. The gentleman from Illinois Mr. Chairman, the Subcommittee on then they would be very critical of Mr. (Mr. MANZULLO), whose district is home Courts and Intellectual Property, on Scalia and Mr. Thomas, the Religious to a city which is subject to a judicial which I am pleased to serve with the Freedom Restoration Act that they did taxation order, contributed to this por- gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. not like, the Brady Bill, parts of which tion of the bill. COBLE), has a good deal of business they did not like. There are a whole se- Fifth, the gentleman from Florida which we do in a nonideological way ries of them. And the conservative jus- (Mr. CANADY) worked with our former and in a nonpartisan way, and I am tices are in league. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2245 One of the most glaring examples of Let me also now read. ‘‘Even if the low themselves when they are incon- this came recently with regard to a se- electorate could enact statutes to regu- venient. ries of decisions in California where late the selection of nominees for par- So they come forward with a bill judges in California found referenda tisan offices, it cannot do so in a way which is mostly a nuisance and inter- unconstitutional. Now, in a couple of that undermines the integrity of the ference and a derogation from the effi- cases, at least in one case, a district electoral process.’’ ciency of our Court system. We will be judge found the referendum unconsti- And then quoting with approval an- offering some amendments to try to tutional under affirmative action. That other decision, ‘‘Voters may no more clear that up. And absent the passage district judge was promptly overruled. violate the Constitution by enacting a of those amendments, I hope the bill is No harm was done to the cause of the ballot measure than a legislative body defeated. people who were against it. We went may do so by enacting legislation. A Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance through the regular procedure. court must undertake the same con- of my time. And if we listen to my Republican stitutional analysis of laws passed by Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 7 friends, we might get the impression initiative as by a legislature. There is minutes to the distinguished gen- that they do not like the idea of a Fed- little significance to the fact that a tleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), the eral judge invalidating a popular ref- law was adopted by a popular vote Chairman of the House Committee on erendum. But if we got that idea, Mr. rather than as an act of the State leg- the Judiciary. Chairman, we would be wrong. islature. Indeed, there are substantial (Mr. HYDE asked and was given per- Sometimes in an excess of their con- reasons for according deference to leg- mission to revise and extend his re- cern over a particular case, my friends islative enactments that do not exist marks.) on the other side overstate their alle- with respect to proposals adopted by Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I will re- giance to general principles. Because, initiative.’’ And that is a quote again strain myself from quoting the well- in fact, when the people on the Repub- from another decision. known line about a foolish consistency, lican Party do not like the result of a Now, where do these arguments in because I tend to agree with the gen- referendum, what do they do? Well, in favor of allowing a single Federal dis- tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. California, they go to court and they trict judge to invalidate a referendum FRANK). I think consistency is a virtue, ask a single district judge to invalidate of the people of California if it was un- and I do not have the time to point out it. constitutional come from? What radi- inconsistencies on the left. Indeed, it seems to me clear that, cal group, what group of anti-public Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. with regard to judicial activism, my elitists, what sneering left-wingers, un- Chairman, will the gentleman yield? friends on the other side have essen- willing to let the people decide, put Mr. HYDE. I yield to the gentleman tially the same position with regards this forward? Who says that, in fact, from Massachusetts. to States’ the legislative enactment might even Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. rights. They are against it except when Chairman, I thank the gentleman, be- they like it. They are prepared to de- get more deference from a court than the people? Who are these judicial ac- cause my good friend from Illinois and nounce it when it produces a result I do not always agree on the definition they do not like. But when it gets in tivist encouragers who so sneer at the public? They are the California Repub- of virtue, so I am glad we do in this the way of a result they like, then they case. ignore it. That is where they are on lican Party. I am quoting from the brief filed by Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, that is States’ rights, and that is a perfectly right, at least in this instance. But I valid viewpoint. the California Republican Party, Mi- chael Schroeder, Shawn Steel, and would like to suggest that I think he That is, it is valid to be result-ori- proves too much when he refers to this ented. It is valid to say, I am going to Donna Shalansky. Not that Shalala. Donna Shalansky. It was filed July 28, bill as somehow hostile to the vi- hope for the right decision. What is not brancy, the vitality, the importance, intellectually valid, it seems to me, is 1997. Because the people of California dared to pass a referendum changing the significance of the Federal judici- to assert adherence to a principle to ary. Just the opposite; it is an effort to which one does not, in fact, adhere. the way candidates are nominated for office which the Republican and Demo- make the Federal judiciary work bet- And when we talk about States’ rights ter. but are prepared to disregard States’ cratic Parties of California did not like. We will have amendments here, and rights and talk reform and criminal we will debate this issue, but I do not procedure and economic regulation and So the Republican Party of Califor- nia went to court with the Democratic think there is anything in the bill that consumer protection, then we really is hostile at all to the notion of the forfeit our rights to talk about States’ Party of California and said, judge, you make those people stop violating my third branch of government and its rights. And when we denounce judicial very important role in the functioning activism but Honor Justices Scalia and constitutional rights. And they wrote down here that just because the people of our democracy. Thomas, our two most active justices, As to the three-judge panel, somehow then it seems to me we undercut our did it in a referendum does not mean anything. In fact, it may mean it is the gentleman from Massachusetts argument. views that as a derogation of author- And with regard to the notion that even less entitled to respect than when the people do it. ity, proper authority that belongs to somehow it is a terrible thing for a dis- the courts. I would just simply suggest trict court judge to invalidate a popu- b 1100 that the notion of setting aside by in- lar referendum, let me read a refuta- Of course, we have a bill on the floor junction a referendum that has passed tion of that view. I am reading from a that does exactly the opposite. We have through a State process where mem- legal brief. a bill on the floor that says that, if a bers of the State have voted in the ref- The blanket primary is not valid because it referendum is involved, we have to erendum is a topic of some significance apparently was passed by a majority of Democrats and Republicans who voted in the have a three-judge court. and deserves the gravity of a three- 1996 election. Voters cannot validly enact a It just seems to me, Mr. Chairman, judge court rather than just one judge. law which conflicts with parties’ rules gov- that there ought to be some limit to I say that because we do this in the erning the nomination of candidates and in- the extent to which a gap is allowed to context of three-judge courts already fringes their first amendment rights any exist between what people say they deciding appeals from voting rights more than can a legislature. truly believe and what they do when it cases and reapportionment cases. I am Let me read that again correctly. is important to them. sure the gentleman from Massachu- ‘‘Voters cannot validly enact a law So what we have here is a cry of frus- setts supports enthusiastically the no- which conflicts with parties’ rules gov- tration. We have the right wing not tion that three-judge courts have to erning the nomination of candidates liking the fact that the court some- hear voting rights cases. They are im- and infringes their first amendment times enforces constitutional rights. portant. Three-judge courts ought to rights any more anymore than a legis- So they talk about all the doctrines hear appeals on reapportionment be- lature.’’ which they, it does not seem to me, fol- cause they are important. H2246 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 We feel a State referendum is equally showing for those California voters diting the enforcement of the referendum if important. So rather than derogating does not evaporate as rapidly as I fear the final decision is that the referendum is from the importance of the Federal it might. constitutional. Such an expedited procedure is already provided for in other voting rights courts deciding these, we are adding Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield to cases. It should be no different in this case, some gravatas to the process by saying the gentleman’s superior knowledge on since a state is ‘‘redistricted’’ for purposes of where an entire State has voted on an marijuana. a vote on a referendum into one voting issue, that the setting aside of that I simply would like to say that the block. The Congressional Research Service should be done by a three-judge court rest of this bill deals with improve- estimates that these three-judge courts rather than one. ments in the Federal court system, would be required less than 10 times in a dec- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. abuses that can occur in class-action ade under this bill, causing a very insubstan- Chairman, will the gentleman yield? certifications, questions of judicial tial burden on the federal judiciary, while substantially protecting the rights of the Mr. HYDE. I yield to the gentleman misconducts. Some of us feel those are voters of a state. from Massachusetts. better handled by a committee in an- This bill recognizes that state referenda re- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. other circuit rather than the circuit flect, more than any other process, the one- Chairman, I thank the gentleman for where the judge practices or sits. person/one-vote system, and seeks to protect yielding to me. I would say, as our We deal with questions of courts or- a fundamental part of our national founda- friend from North Carolina had re- dering taxing bodies to raise taxes. We tion. This bill will implement a fair and ef- minded us, the original reason for a fective policy that preserves a proper bal- feel that is a violation of separation of ance in federal-state relations. three-judge court in the voting rights powers. We like to help avoid getting case had to do with the unfortunate INTERIM APPEALS OF CLASS ACTION stuck, if I may use that inelegant CERTIFICATIONS history of judges in the South, who did term, with a judge who is inappropriate The second reform contained in this bill not really believe in it. I do not think for a particular party or litigant or was developed by the Chairman of the Sub- that there was need for it any further, lawyer by letting us at least change committee on the Constitution, Representa- and I would not insist on maintaining once, which we can do in every circuit tive Charles Canady of Florida. It allows im- it. court throughout the country. We deal mediate (interlocutory) appeals of class ac- I would say with regard to the sub- with cameras in the courtroom han- tion certifications by a federal District stance of what the gentleman said, I dling capital punishment appeals. judge. understand his argument that there is When a District judge determines that an So this is a good bill. I do not doubt action may be maintained as a class action, something special about a referendum. it is controversial. It is not hostile to the provisions contained in the Judicial Re- But the California Republican Party the courts. We will have a struggle per- form Act allow a party to that case to appeal filed a lawsuit directly contradicting haps later on over judicial pay. Some that decision immediately to the proper that. people who just congenitally dislike Court of Appeals without delaying the I would ask the gentleman, do the judges will have their say, but that is progress of the underlying case. This pre- vents ‘‘automatic’’ certification of class ac- California Republicans, who serve on for later in the day. the Committee on the Judiciary, have tions by judges whose decisions to certify SUMMARY OF H.R. 1252, THE JUDICIARY may go unchallenged because the parties they talked to the California Repub- REFORM ACT OF 1998 have invested too many resources into the lican Party and tried to enlighten This necessary legislation addresses one of case before an appeal is allowed. them and correct this error, which the most disturbing problems facing our con- This bill will also prevent abuses by attor- they have so strongly propagated? stitutional system today—the infrequent but neys who bring class action suits when they Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I would intolerable breach of the separation of pow- are not warranted, and provides protection say to my friend, the gentleman from ers by some members of the Federal judici- to defendants who may be forced to expend Massachusetts, that is the one aspect ary. unnecessary resources at trial, only to find that a class action was improperly brought THREE-JUDGE PANELS of this controversy I have not re- against them in the first place. As a prac- searched. But I can also tell him that I The first reform contained in this bill was tical matter, the outcome of a class-action will not research it. But, nonetheless, developed originally by a valued member of suit is often determined by whether the the purpose of the three-judge court is the Committee on the Judiciary, the late judge elects to certify a class since certifi- a recognition of the significance of an Representative Sonny Bono of California. cations may guarantee that a plaintiff’s at- entire State voting on a referendum, Recognizing the unjust effect on voting torney can extract a favorable settlement, rights created by injunctions issued in Cali- and giving it the added dignity of a irrespective of whether the certification was fornia by one judge against the will of the proper. three-judge court to set aside the ex- people of the State as reflected in Propo- pressed wish of perhaps millions of peo- COMPLAINTS AGAINST JUDICIAL MISCONDUCT sitions 187 and 209, H.R. 1252 provides that re- The third reform contained in this bill was ple; the same as in voting rights ap- quests for injunctions in cases challenging developed by another member of the Com- peals and in reapportionment. the constitutionality of measures passed by mittee on the Judiciary, Representative Ed Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. a state referendum must be heard by a three- Bryant of Tennessee. It requires that a com- Chairman, I ask the gentleman to judge court. Like other federal voting rights plaint brought against a federal judge be yield. legislation containing a provision providing sent to a circuit other than the one in which Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, this is al- for a hearing by a three-judge court, the Ju- the judge who is the object of the complaint dicial Reform Act of 1998 is designed to pro- sits for review. This will provide for a more most amounting to harassment, but I, tect voters in the exercise of their vote and nonetheless, in the mood of accommo- objective review of the complaint and im- to further protect the results of that vote. It prove the efficacy of the Judicial Councils dation, yield to the gentleman from requires that legislation voted upon and ap- Reform and Judicial Conduct and Disability Massachusetts. proved directly by the citizens of a state be Act of 1980, 28 U.S.C. § 372 (‘‘The 1980 Act’’), Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. afforded the protection of a three-judge which established a mechanism for the filing Chairman, I seek no quid pro quo, so I court pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 2284 if an appli- of complaints against federal judges. do not think it is harassment. cation for an injunction is brought in federal Under those procedures, a complaint alleg- Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I did not court to arrest the enforcement of the ref- ing that a federal judge has engaged in con- erendum on the premise that the referendum duct prejudicial to the effective and expedi- hear what the gentleman said. is unconstitutional. This system already ap- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. tious administration of the business of the plies to Voting Rights Act and reapportion- courts may be filed with the clerk of the U.S. Chairman, I seek no quid pro quo, so I ment cases. Court of Appeals for the circuit in which the do not think it is harassment because I In effect, where the entire populace of a federal judge who is the subject of the com- am not the gentleman’s supervisor. state democratically exercises a direct vote plaint sits. Under the Act, a special commit- I would say to the gentleman that I on an issue, one federal judge will be able to tee will report to the judicial council of the appreciate his talking about the rel- issue an injunction preventing the enforce- circuit, which will decide what action, if evance of respecting the wishes of mil- ment of the will of the people of that state. any, should be taken. lions of California voters in a referen- Rather, three judges, at the trial level, ac- By requiring that complaints filed under cording to procedures already provided by the 1980 Act be transferred to a circuit other dum. I hope when the resolution con- statute, will hear the application for an in- than the circuit in which the alleged wrong- demning those same voters for voting junction and determine whether the re- doer sits, more objectivity and accountabil- for medical marijuana comes up that quested injunction should issue. An appeal is ity will exist for litigants who find them- the respect that the gentleman is now taken directly to the Supreme Court, expe- selves in need of relief from a judge who is April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2247 not properly performing his or her functions. that: (1) there are no other means available petitions at the state and federal level. His In addition, the bill has been amended to to remedy the relevant deprivation of rights federal petition was handled by a judge who limit out-of-circuit referrals to those cases or laws, and the tax is narrowly tailored and delayed its consideration for four years be- in which a complaint is not dismissed as directly related to the specific constitu- fore ordering a new trial. This same judge being incomplete, frivolous, or directly re- tional deprivation or harm necessitating re- handles all habeas petitions in that judicial lated to the merits of a decision or proce- dress; (2) the tax will not exacerbate the dep- circuit, and has delayed consideration of all dural ruling. This amendment represents an rivation intended to be remedied; (3) the tax capital cases appealed to that circuit by a effort to respond to those critics who assert will not result in a revenue loss for the af- minimum of 65 years. All cases on which he that the revision to existing complaint pro- fected subdivision; (4) the tax will not result has reached a final decision have resulted in cedures will generate unnecessary and trivial in a depreciation of property values for the an over-turning of a jury verdict to impose administrative expenses for out-of-circuit affected taxpayers; (5) plans submitted by execution. In effect, this judge has taken it judges. In other words, only ‘‘substantive’’ state or local authorities will not effectively upon himself to usurp the decision of a jury complaints will be referred out of circuit. redress the relevant deprivation; and (6) the to impose the death penalty. Pursuant to the JUDICIAL TAXATION interests of state and local authorities in bill, the chief judge of a circuit could neither The fourth reform contained in this bill managing their own affairs is not usurped by handle all habeas cases by himself or herself, prohibits a federal court from ‘‘expressly di- the proposed tax, consistent with the Con- nor delegate the responsibility on an exclu- recting’’ or ‘‘necessarily requiring’’ that a stitution. sive basis to another judge. Finally, the bill specifies that the judicial state or municipality impose taxes on its CAMERAS IN THE COURTROOM tax provisions will apply to any action or citizenry, a function reserved to legislative A seventh reform would permit a presiding proceeding pending on, or commenced on or bodies, for the purpose of enforcing a legal judge, in his or her discretion, to permit the after, the date of enactment. This was done decision. Seizing the power of the public use of cameras during federal appellate pro- at the behest of Representative Don Man- purse by imposing taxes on any community ceedings. Based on legislation introduced by zullo of Illinois, whose district is home to is an egregious example of how some mem- Representative Steve Chabot of Ohio, the Rockford, a city which is subject to a court bers of the judiciary have breached this na- change mirrors state efforts to provide taxation order that has devastated local tion’s founding principle of separation of greater public access to the workings of the communities. powers and undermined the concept of self- judiciary. The Committee on the Judiciary rule. REASSIGNMENT OF CASES also adopted an amendment offered by Rep- In some cases, judges have designed in spe- The fifth reform contained in this bill was resentative Chabot which creates a three- cific detail local school systems and public also developed by Representative Canady. It year pilot program allowing televised pro- housing systems, and then ordered tax in- allows all parties on one side of a civil case ceedings in any U.S. District (trial-level) creases to finance the spending bills dis- brought in federal District court to agree, proceeding, subject to the discretion of the guised in their judicial rulings. The most after initial assignment to a judge, to bring presiding judge. conspicuous example illustrating this prob- a motion requiring that the case be reas- JUDICIAL PAY signed to a different judge. Each side of the lem is the ongoing case of Missouri v. Jenkins, An eighth reform includes parts of legisla- case may exercise this option only once. in which the Supreme Court has issued three tion introduced by Representative Henry Under the provision, a motion to reassign opinions and the court of appeals more than Hyde of Illinois, Chairman of the Committee must be made not later than 20 days after 20. In Jenkins, the Supreme Court ruled that on the Judiciary, that would grant federal the notice of original assignment of the case while it was permissible for the lower court judges an annual cost-of-living adjustment in the Kansas City school system to order is given. Because some critics believe the reassign- unless Congress takes action to the con- the state or municipality to raise taxes to trary. remedy a constitutional deprivation, it re- ment device might encourage forum-shop- manded and reversed the lower court deci- ping and attendant delay, its application will COMPLEX DISASTER LITIGATION sion based on the fact that the lower court be limited to the 21 largest federal judicial With Representative Jim Sensenbrenner of lacks the authority to impose a tax itself; it districts (each containing over 10 judges to Wisconsin as its chief advocate, a ninth re- must order the state or local municipality to allow a random reassignment) over a five- form consists of language which the House do so. The Jenkins litigation also dem- year period, thereby allowing Congress to passed in the 101st and 102nd Congress, and onstrates that once a federal court seizes evaluate its effects and to determine wheth- which the full Committee on the Judiciary such a ‘‘structural reform’’ case, it will con- er it ought to be extended to all districts and passed in the 103rd Congress. This language stantly reevaluate its progress for years perpetuated in the future. is intended to improve the ability of federal until the ‘‘constitutional deprivation’’ has This substitution-of-judge, or, as referred courts to handle complex multidistrict liti- been cured. to in the bill, ‘‘reassignment-of-case-as-of- gation arising from a single accident, such as State and federal laws leave budget and right,’’ provision mirrors similar state laws a plane crash. spending authority to legislative bodies, be- and allows litigants on both sides of a case Briefly, these changes would bestow origi- cause only a body which represents the will to avoid being subjected to a particular fed- nal jurisdiction on federal District courts in of the people can decide properly how to eral judge, appointed for life, in any specific civil actions involving minimal diversity ju- spend the people’s taxes. While rulings on case. It might be used by litigants in a com- risdiction among adverse parties based on a due process are important to protect the munity to avoid ‘‘forum shopping’’ by the single accident where at least 25 persons rights of litigants, and remedy which would other side in a case, or to avoid a judge who have either died or sustained injuries exceed- force the public to pay more in taxes must is known to engage in improper courtroom ing $50,000 per person. The District court in come from the House of the people and not behavior, who is known to be prejudiced, or which such cases are consolidated would re- from the authority of the bench. The judici- who regularly exceeds judicial authority. tain those cases for purposes of determining ary is neither equipped nor given the power This provision is not meant to replace ap- liability and punitive damages, and would to make such decisions. To allow otherwise pellate review of trial judges’ decisions, but also determine the substantive law that is to usurp self-rule and replace it with self- rather to complement appellate review by would apply for findings of liability and appointed authority. As four justices of the encouraging judges to fairly administer their damage. Returning individual cases to state United States Supreme Court have stated, oaths of office to uphold the Constitution. and federal courts where they were origi- the imposition of taxes by courts ‘‘disregards Many judges face constant reversals on ap- nally filed for a determination of compen- fundamental precepts for the democratic peal, but still force litigants to bear extraor- satory money damages (and where all rel- control of public institutions. The power of dinary costs before them and further bear evant records are located) is fair to the taxation is one that the federal judiciary the burden of overcoming standards of re- plaintiffs or their estates. does not possess.’’ view on appeal. This provision allows liti- These changes should reduce litigation This bill will restore the proper balance de- gants some freedom in ensuring that due costs as well as the likelihood of forum-shop- fined in the Constitution between the federal process will be given to their case before ping in airline and other accident cases. An branches and federal-state relations by for- they bear the costs associated with litigat- effective one-time determination of punitive bidding any U.S. District court from enter- ing in trial court and will encourage the ju- damages would eliminate multiple or incon- ing an order or approving a settlement that diciary to be as impartial as required by sistent awards arising from multiforum liti- requires a state or one of its subdivisions to their charge. gation. impose, increase, levy, or assess any tax for HANDLING OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT APPEALS AGENCY (OPM) APPEALS OF ADVERSE the purpose of enforcing any federal or state The sixth reform set forth in H.R. 1252 was PERSONNEL DECISIONS common law, statutory, or constitutional developed in response to the May 14, 1997, The tenth and final reform of H.R. 1252, right or law. testimony of Charlotte Stout, who partici- proposed by Representative Conyers of This reform contains a narrow, multi-part pated in an oversight hearing on judicial Michigan, would permit the Office of Person- exception to the general prohibition of judi- misconduct, and comments made by Rep- nel Management (OPM) to appeal final deci- cially-imposed taxation. Specifically, a court resentative William Delahunt of Massachu- sions of the Merit Systems Protection Board may not order a state or political subdivi- setts. Ms. Stout’s daughter was raped and (MSPB) and final arbitral awards dealing sion to impose a tax unless the court first murdered by a man who sat on death row for with adverse personnel actions to the Fed- determines by clear and convincing evidence 18 years as a result of filing numerous habeas eral Circuit within 60 days from the time H2248 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 final notice of a decision is received. Cur- the California Civil Rights Initiative, consume to the gentleman from Michi- rently, OPM must file its appellate briefs the CCRI. gan (Mr. CONYERS), the ranking mem- within 30 days, which is half the time allot- The CCRI simply removed the oppor- ber of the full committee. ted to other federal agencies. tunity for State officials to judge peo- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I This bill is limited in scope. It reforms the procedures of the federal courts to ensure ple by their race and their sex, a prac- thank the gentleman from Massachu- fairness in the hearing of cases without tice that I think most Americans con- setts for yielding to me. stripping jurisdiction, or reclaiming any sider repugnant. In a ruling that Mr. Chairman, I was delighted to powers granted by Congress to the lower turned common sense and our Con- hear the majority whip, constitutional courts. It does assure that litigants in fed- stitution on its head, Justice Hender- expert in his own right, whose opinions eral courts will be entitled to fair rules of son ruled that by adopting the equal I respect very much, and which will be- practice and procedure leading to the due protection clause of the 14th amend- come very much in focus today. The process of claims. ment, the voters of the State of Cali- gentleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY), Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. fornia had violated that same 14th majority whip, is the same Member of Chairman, I reserve the balance of my amendment. Congress who claims it is time we im- time. Although judicial taxation and Judge peach judges whose opinions consist- 1 Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 5 ⁄2 Henderson’s circumvention of the Con- ently ignore their constitutional role, minutes to the distinguished gen- stitution are two extreme examples of violate their oath of office, and breach tleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY), the judges breaching the separation of pow- the separation of powers. majority whip for the House. ers, there are, of course, many, many b 1115 Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I thank others. the Chairman for yielding. I want to Judges have created the right to die. That is a quote. commend the chairman of the sub- Judges have prohibited States from de- Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, will the committee and the chairman of the full claring English as an official language. gentleman yield? committee and the Members of the Judges have extended the right of Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- Committee on the Judiciary for their States to withhold taxpayer-funded tleman from Texas. very hard work and effort in what I services from illegal aliens, all without Mr. DELAY. Does the gentleman be- consider a much needed piece of legis- sound constitutional basis. lieve that a judge should not be im- lation. Now, some Federal judges have even peached that violates his oath of office The system of checks and balances so made themselves the sovereigns of the and violates the Constitution? carefully crafted by our Founding Fa- cell blocks, micromanaging our State Mr. CONYERS. I will get to that thers is in serious disrepair and has prisons, and forcing changes in prison later. Right now I am making my own been for years. This bill takes a very operations that have resulted in the presentation, and I wanted to make necessary step to bring the courts back early release each year of literally sure I am quoting the gentleman cor- into constitutional order. hundreds of thousands of violent and/or rectly. The Founding Fathers established a repeat criminals out on our streets and Mr. DELAY. Will the gentleman system of government in the United the streets to plague our families. yield? States that does not allow one branch In 1970, not a single prison system Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- to become too powerful at the expense was operating under the sweeping tleman, yes. of the other. I contend, quite frankly, court orders common today. By 1990, Mr. DELAY. The gentleman from if we read the Constitution as it origi- some 508 municipalities, and over 1,200 Michigan is absolutely quoting me cor- nally was written and intended, the ju- State prisons were operating under rectly. diciary branch was supposed to be the some judicial confinement order or Mr. CONYERS. All right, that is all I weakest branch of the three created by some consent decree. need. The majority whip should use his the Constitution. In New York City, judges have forced own time. Contrary to the opinion of the liberal prison officials to require that only li- Now let me ask the majority whip, legal establishment of this country, ju- censed barbers cut the hair of the pris- who is enjoying this as much as I am, dicial power is not limitless. Judicial oners; that sweetened coffee may never ‘‘Do you have any judges in mind since power does not equal legislative power. be served at meals for the prisoners; you made that statement a few months Judges apply the law. They are not to and a court-appointed monitor must be ago or do you plan to do anything make the law. When judges go further given a city car within one grade of the about your pronouncements on that and unilaterally impose legislative prison commissioner’s car. If it were subject?’’ remedies, they exceed the legitimate not so appalling, it would be funny. Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, will the limits of power given to them by the But if that is not enough, the same gentleman yield? Constitution. activist judges have also imposed pris- Mr. CONYERS. With pleasure. When judges legislate, they usurp the on caps, mandating the release of vio- Mr. DELAY. I got a list and it is power of Congress. When judges stray lent felons and drug dealers before they growing, yes, sir. beyond the Constitution, they usurp have even served their time. Mr. CONYERS. The gentleman from the power of the people. For instance, Later today, the gentleman from Texas got a list and it is growing. under the Constitution, only Congress Pennsylvania (Mr. MURTHA) and I will Well, does the gentleman plan to ever can lay and collect taxes. But that did offer an amendment that will end this do anything with the list, though? not stop District Judge Russell Clark travesty of justice caused by overac- That is the point, and I yield again. from ordering tax increases from the tive judges. Our amendment will pro- Mr. DELAY. I will be glad to consult bench. hibit a Federal judge from ever releas- with the gentleman when I have a can- That tax increase, and 2 billion tax ing a felon from prison because of didate that has violated his oath of of- dollars, turned the city school district claims of prison overcrowding. fice and the Constitution. into a spending orgy, complete with ed- The prisoners claim of overcrowding Mr. CONYERS. Okay. Then that iting and animation labs, greenhouses, has become a get-out-of-jail-free card. means up to now the gentleman does temperature-controlled art galleries, And we say no longer. No longer will not have a candidate but he has got a and a model United Nations that was these prisoners plague our families, list. wired for language translation. If that and our cities, and in our towns. Mr. DELAY. Will the gentleman is not taxation without representation, I urge my colleagues to support the yield? I do not know what it is. Hyde bill and the DeLay-Murtha Mr. CONYERS. Yes, sir. Another example of a judge tossing amendment. The time has come to re- Mr. DELAY. I thought the list of can- aside the Constitution and supplanting establish our system of checks and bal- didates is what I was referring to. I his own personal biases was the deci- ances and to restore sanity to our have got plenty of candidates, yes. I sion of the District Court Judge, criminal justice system. am just looking for one that is particu- Thelton Henderson, prohibiting the Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. larly bad in violating the Constitution State of California from implementing Chairman, I yield such time as he may and his oath of office, yes. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2249 Mr. CONYERS. I get it. Then the to the extent that they are incorrect I And so we are asking that this provi- gentleman does not have a candidate apologize for bringing it to the gentle- sion be stricken from the bill. We hope right now. He has got a list. And I am man’s attention. that a lot of Members, lawyers and not yielding any more. The gentleman Mr. DELAY. Will the gentleman yield constitutional experts and Members from Texas can get time. I got a way again? that do not make that claim, will join for him to get as much time as he Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- us in opposing this section of the bill. wants, but it is on the other side on his tleman from Texas. Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 own time. Mr. DELAY. They just used the minutes to the gentlewoman from Cali- Okay. wrong word. fornia (Mrs. BONO). Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, will Mr. CONYERS. I see. What word (Mrs. BONO asked and was given per- the gentleman yield? should they have used? mission to revise and extend her re- Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- Mr. DELAY. Judges that violate the marks.) tleman from Massachusetts. Constitution and their oath of office. Mrs. BONO. Mr. Chairman, as one of Mr. DELAHUNT. If the gentleman Mr. CONYERS. So this is not about the newest Members of the 105th Con- would inquire of the majority whip to activist judges. Okay. Well we are get- gress, I want to express what a privi- give us the names on that particular ting someplace. lege it is to arrive at this great institu- list. Now here is the problem with this tion and participate during these im- Mr. CONYERS. No, I am not going to bill. There was a section in H.R. 1252 portant debates. go there. I am not going to go there. He granting parties in the 21 largest Fed- As one of my first official acts I am has got a list and he is working on it, eral districts the right to peremptorily very proud to rise today to support the but he does not have a name yet so I challenge a Federal judge’s right to bill under consideration, the Judicial got to wait. Said just stay tuned and he hear a civil action. In effect, listen Reform Act of 1997. This is a very good is going to make his presentation when carefully, Republican Members of this bill, and among its important provi- the time comes. House, in effect this provision permits sions is one of special significance to Mr. DELAHUNT. Will the gentleman prejudicial challenges based on the the voters of my district, of my State continue to yield? Could he reveal to us race or gender of the judge. and to myself. Section 2 of the bill re- the number of candidates that are on Now, current law already provides a flects the bill, H.R. 1170, which was my it? clear and coherent statutory regime late husband’s first piece of legislation Mr. CONYERS. I am not going to go for removing judges in appropriate cir- in Congress and which passed this there, either. Maybe he will tell us cumstances, and it has been working House last Congress. This is a simple today, maybe he will not. Maybe he pretty well all these years. But now but long overdue measure that will will come up with a list next month. today, 1998, we get a proposal in this protect the franchise of democracy. Who knows? That is what he is telling bill that goes well beyond removing This provision, as my colleagues al- me. judges for cause and allows the parties ready know, establishes a three-judge Well, now, ‘‘Congressional Repub- to remove judges for no stated reason panel to review the constitutionality of licans yesterday rallied,’’ this is the whatsoever, no stated reason whatso- voter-passed initiatives. When a single great Washington newspaper, the ever. Federal judge can block the will of the Washington Times, ‘‘Congressional Re- This is what the Republican lawyers people for years at a time, that is one publicans yesterday rallied behind on the House Committee on the Judici- of the most antidemocratic features of House Majority Whip Tom DeLay’s an- ary propose we do to the Federal courts our legal system. For the voters of nouncement that the GOP will pursue today, for no reason, any reason. These California and other States that have impeachment proceedings against ac- are lawyers on the Committee on the initiatives, justice is delayed, and thus tivist Federal judges.’’ Judiciary seriously proposing that that it is denied. Now I would like to gain the distin- is what we do, and I say that is wrong. Quickly I want to spell out three rea- guished majority whip’s attention In addition, these challenges would sons why the three-judge panel provi- again. Excuse me, sir, if I may gain not require the exercising party to sion should be passed by the House your attention again. make any showing or even any allega- today. This is a commonsense idea; it Mr. DELAY. Is the gentleman going tion of bias on the part of the judge. In will make the Federal courts more ob- to yield to me now? other words, ‘‘I don’t like that judge, jective in the way they review cases Mr. CONYERS. Just a moment. I just let’s get another judge.’’ Does the gen- arising from a vote of the people. want to gain the gentleman’s attention tleman know what that would do to the This is a mainstream idea. This first. Okay. I thank the gentleman. judicial process in the Federal system? measure was part of the American ‘‘Congressional Republicans yesterday Every judge that walks into every legal system for years, and in my view rallied behind House Majority Whip court where he is assigned, a judge, any we are bringing back something that Tom DeLay’s announcement that the party that does not like the judge, they has an important role in protecting our GOP will pursue impeachment proceed- get another one. And they go there and democratic system. Every Member ings against activist Federal judges.’’ they get another one. They do not like knows that the three-judge panels are And I will be happy to yield to the the next one, someone else objects. used today in voting rights and appor- gentleman. What generally is his de- And this is a serious proposal, my tionment cases. scription of activist Federal judges? colleagues. I think we ought to take a And, finally, this is a bipartisan idea. Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, will the good look at this and find out just The three-judge panel bill, H.R. 1170, gentleman yield? what is fueling this desire to allow was supported by an overwhelming and Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- every lawyer that comes into Federal bipartisan vote of this body in the last tleman from Texas. court to forum shop. I do not think it Congress. The bill we are considering Mr. DELAY. I appreciate the gen- is proper, and I do not think that it today also contains provisions that Re- tleman giving me this opportunity. ought to be in the law. The judges are publicans and Democrats should unite Mr. CONYERS. It is a pleasure. not too thrilled about it either. The to support. Mr. DELAY. First of all, I did not delay would be incredible, and the Ju- In closing, I want to commend the write that. dicial Conference is a little bit exer- gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) and Mr. CONYERS. I know the gentleman cised, as my colleague can believe. the gentleman from North Carolina did not. A preemptive challenge would be dev- (Mr. COBLE) for their hard work in Mr. DELAY. I am not looking to im- astating of this kind. All the expertise bringing this excellent bill to the floor. peach activist judges. What I am look- that a judge acquired regarding the Again, I ask every Member to support ing for are judges that violate their cases developed over many months this provision and pass this bill. oath of office and judges that violate would be lost. New judges would have Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. the Constitution of the United States. to educate themselves regarding the Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gen- Mr. CONYERS. Okay. Then the attendant cases, with delay and ex- tlewoman from California (Ms. WA- Washington Times is wrong again, and pense. TERS), a member of the committee. H2250 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 (Ms. WATERS asked and was given there is some merit to a complaint one particular case in Missouri, there permission to revise and extend her re- against a judge, rather than allow, as I is the fear that it could happen again. marks.) said before, the judge’s own colleagues So this kind of judicial activism is, in- Ms. WATERS. Mr. Chairman, I rise in within that circuit court to determine deed, considered an outrage by the opposition to this odious bill. This bill whether or not that judge is guilty of American public, and this legislation may as well be called the anti-Thelton an ethical violation, I simply ask the will ensure it does not happen again in Henderson bill. Republicans got upset courts to allow that to be moved over our localities. with one Federal district judge’s deci- to another circuit, to other judges, who So I believe that this is appropriate. sion regarding proposition 209, and now perhaps do not know that judge as It is responsible legislation; it has a they want to change the whole judicial well. good balance between the judicial re- process. These changes would make it What that simply does is allow the view that is appropriate for judges to possible to pick and choose with no jus- person who filed that complaint, the maintain, but yet we in this Congress tification. Thus, black judges, Latino citizen, to have a fair hearing of that are sworn to uphold the Constitution of judges, women judges would be chal- complaint against the judge, without the United States as well. lenged simply because of their color. the appearance of a conflict of interest, I believe that this legislation is in The changes they propose are out- without the appearance of favoritism line with our constitutional authority, rageous. They want to make it easy for by colleagues. Whether that exists or and I would ask my colleagues to sup- racist and sexist judges to hear cases in not, at a minimum, the appearance ex- port it. civil actions. They want the Reagan- ists. Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 Bush appointed court of appeals judges It is a question of freedom and fair- minutes to the gentleman from Ohio to control the decisions about the con- ness. This legislation would protect (Mr. CHABOT), a member of the Com- stitutionality of State referenda issues. those filing such a grievance, such a mittee on the Judiciary. They want to restrict Federal district complaint, and allow it to be heard by Mr. CHABOT. Mr. Chairman, I thank courts from enforcing rights laws if judges who do not have that friendship the gentleman for yielding me this there are any fines involved. or who do not have that working rela- time. Now, after proposing all of that, the tionship with the judge under issue. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the Republicans dangle the cameras in the Mr. Chairman, I close by simply urg- Judicial Reform Act. As my colleagues courtroom provision as if to make a ing my colleagues to support this bill. know, this legislation contains lan- concession. Well, I am not falling for It is a very good bill. guage authored by the gentleman from it. Now I wholly support the opening up Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 New York (Mr. SCHUMER) and myself of the judiciary. Cameras would help minutes to the gentleman from Arkan- that would permit Federal judges in the public understand the justice sys- sas (Mr. HUTCHINSON), a member of the appropriate situations to allow the tem. But I will not sacrifice the integ- Committee on the Judiciary. televising of civil and criminal trials rity of the entire Federal judiciary for Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman, I or appeals. Again, it would permit it, one good provision. thank the gentleman for yielding me but it would not require cameras in the This bill is unconscionable and un- time. I appreciate the leadership of the courtroom. It is at the discretion of the constitutional. Tampering with the gentleman on this important issue. trial judge. Federal justice system to get back at Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of Open, public trials have a longstand- one judge’s decision is petty and dan- H.R. 1252, the Judicial Reform Act, and ing tradition in our country. The fram- gerous, and shame on my colleagues for want to speak about two provisions of ers of the Constitution required public pushing this bill, shame on all of us if the bill. trials because they recognized that a we vote for it. The first one is one long-championed thriving democracy depends on a well- I strongly urge a vote of ‘‘no’’ on by our former colleague, Sonny Bono, informed public. They knew that the H.R. 1252. which ensures that the will of millions public needs to see how an important Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 of voters is not overturned by a single branch of the Federal Government minutes to the gentleman from Ten- Federal judge. Of course, the illustra- works, or, in some cases, does not nessee (Mr. BRYANT), a member of the tion was given in the State of Califor- work, and they understood that the Committee on the Judiciary. nia, but that can be duplicated in Ar- dignity of the court comes from the Mr. BRYANT. Mr. Chairman, this kansas, in which the initiative petition courtroom itself and from the values legislation before us was created after drive alternative of the voters is uti- and beliefs on display. a number of judges across this country lized quite frequently. Those values and beliefs are invig- have began taking away rights and lib- Whenever we have a ballot initiative orated, not undercut, as opponents of erties in many of the cases before that is passed by the voters, I think it open government would argue, by giv- them, and the portion of this bill that is wrong to have that potentially over- ing the people the ability to see our ju- I strongly support and actually au- turned by one single Federal judge. I dicial system in action. thored has an impact in this situation believe the three-judge panel is a bet- Chief Justice Berger, for example, when it comes to filing ethical com- ter procedure because it preserves the once wrote, ‘‘People in an open society plaints against judges by people who right of judicial review, which I believe do not demand infallibility from their feel that they have been wrongfully in. Yet at the same time it ensures it institutions, but it is difficult for them treated in those courtrooms. And what is not going to be passed on the whim to accept what they are prohibited it does, it removes the issue of appear- of one Federal judge, but would at least from observing.’’ ance of conflict of interest, possible require three to review and act upon An informed citizenry also is essen- bias and favoritism in the review of what the voters of a particular State tial to our constitutional system of these ethical complaints against the have done, and it would be a due regard checks and balances. The Federal judges now presently done by that for the Constitution of the United courts play a very important part in judge’s own colleagues. States. our government. Federal judges, after The second thing that I believe is im- all, serve for life. The American people b 1130 portant in this provision is the section deserve the opportunity to see how The process is once a complaint is that prohibits Federal judges from lev- they operate. We need to encourage filed, it is given to the clerk of the cir- ying taxes on localities or municipali- deeper understanding and further na- cuit court, who then passes it on to the ties as part of a settlement or a court tional discussion of the proper and chief judge. ruling. properly limited role of the Federal My proposal allows this chief judge Mr. Chairman, I believe that our con- judges. to ferret out, to eliminate those frivo- stituents are probably wondering why In an age where new technological lous claims, and those claims that are we are even debating this, because the breakthroughs are made every day and based on the judge’s ruling itself, Constitution gives Congress the sole televisions are present in virtually which is not proper, or those incom- authority to impose taxes on the citi- every American home, it is inconceiv- plete complaints. But once he finds zens. Because of what has happened in able that access to the courts would be April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2251 strictly limited to those Americans So while I have experienced that of DON MANZULLO. It is the phrase of who have the time and ability to per- frustration that some of my colleagues Thomas Jefferson, who, when he wrote sonally visit a courthouse. have talked about, what I have said to the Declaration of Independence, cited Our Founding Fathers over 200 years myself over and over and over again is King George for three things: that King ago wanted our Federal courts to be that our system has to be protected. George, III, refused to pass laws that open, and they are open. But who has Otherwise, there is no rule of law; would allow people the right to be rep- the time nowadays to take off of work there can be no justice. We substan- resented in their own legislatures; that or to take away from the time in rais- tially undercut it when we start selec- he called together legislative bodies at ing their families to go down to the tively trying to take some result and unusual times so nothing could be Federal courts, which are generally change it by changing the whole proc- done; that he imposed taxes on us with- downtown? They should have the abil- ess under which we operate. out our consent. ity to view what is going on in those That is what this bill does in sub- Taxation without consent gave rise courtrooms at home. After all, those stantial measure. It gives every citizen to the Boston Tea Party, and it gave courts do not belong to the judges; the opportunity to come in and say, I rise to the Constitution that was writ- they belong to the people. don’t like this judge because I don’t ten in 1787, a document so magnificent Mr. Chairman, I urge passage of this like what color he is or what gender that author Flexner has said, never be- bill. she is or what political perspective fore in history had people gathered to- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. they have, and therefore I am going to gether to write a document by which Chairman, to close for us, I yield the exercise a peremptory challenge, just people can govern themselves. balance of my time to the gentleman like we do in a jury pool. Two of the people who had a tremen- from North Carolina (Mr. WATT). That is an unprecedented change in dous impact on that Constitution were The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. our system. One, which I would have Hamilton and Madison. Hamilton said, EWING). The gentleman from North loved to have had on many occasions, in Federalist Paper 78, ‘‘The judiciary Carolina is recognized for 8 minutes. has no influence over either the sword Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. but I have understood would undermine the system of justice that we have sub- or the purse, no direction either of the Chairman, I thank the gentleman for strength or of the wealth of the soci- yielding me this time. stantially in our country. Yet, my colleagues would come in ety.’’ Mr. Chairman, I actually had tried to And Madison said in Federalist Paper here and whine and say I don’t like the restrain myself from taking time in 33, ‘‘What is a power but the ability or result, therefore I am going to change general debate on this bill because I faculty of doing a thing? What is the the whole system and give everybody had very, very mixed emotions power of laying and collecting taxes in America the right to delay trials throughout this debate. but a legislative power?’’ I had the pleasure of practicing, and subvert the system. This, my And so powerful were those words, sometimes the pain, of practicing law friends, is not a good bill. Mr. Chairman, that they were written for 22 years before I was elected to Con- It may have some superficially ap- into article 1, section 7, that said, ‘‘All gress. There have been many, many pealing aspects to it, some which I can bills for raising revenue shall originate times during that 22 years that I would understand and empathize with, but we in the House of Representatives.’’ It is have longed for the opportunity to be must protect the system of justice and very clear, any Federal attempt to given the right to strike a judge and the rules of the road, and we cannot raise taxes must come in the people’s select another judge. start making them subject to who is in House, and it must come by people who There have been many times during power in the Congress of the United have to stand for reelection every 2 that 22 years that I was on the verge of States and whether it is Conservatives years. losing confidence in a process, and had versus Liberals. We must have rules But history has not proved that out, to step back from it and evaluate the under which we operate. because it is not only in Kansas City, process that was there in our court sys- Once we undermine those rules, as Missouri, where the judge has raised $2 tem, and try to say to myself, how this bill does substantially, then we billion worth of taxes, but it is in would I do this differently if I were de- have undermined our whole system of Rockford, Illinois, where an unelected signing a court system? justice in this country. magistrate ordered the members of the So, in a sense, I guess I can So I beg my colleagues on both sides school board to either raise taxes or go empathize with my Republican col- of the aisle to evaluate this bill and see to jail for the purpose of implementing leagues who would like to make a sub- if this really is where they want to be. a desegregation plan. stantial change in our judicial system It may serve some short-term political That is taxation without representa- because they have a sense of frustra- objective that they have, but what does tion, and that is why we are here tion about some aspect of it. it do to the confidence of the public in today, because Madison compelled it There is probably not another person our judiciary and in our judicial sys- whenever one branch of government in this body, if there are, there are tem? would become predominant over the probably only a few, who have had a b 1145 other. In fact, in number 47 he said, judge look at them or their law part- ‘‘The accumulation of all powers, legis- ners and call them a ‘‘nigger’’ in the At the end of the day, after my col- lative, executive, and judiciary, in the courtroom. I would love to have had leagues have made that kind of evalua- same hands, whether of one, a few, or the opportunity to strike that judge tion, I believe, if they are acting in the many, and whether hereditary, self-ap- and go on to another judge. interests of justice and the integrity of pointed, or elective, may justly be pro- There is probably nobody who has, as our system, they will reject this bill so nounced the very definition of tyr- much as I, been involved in a system that we can have a reasonable set of anny.’’ that had a three-judge panel, and rec- rules that have governed our system We are here, perhaps for the first ognized the benefits and detriments of for years and years and years and do time since the Constitution was adopt- having a three-judge panel in litiga- not delay the trial of cases in our sys- ed, perhaps for the first time that the tion. tem. House of Representatives has been here But when all is said and done, what I ask my colleagues to vote against in existence, for the first time in his- we have to recognize is that we operate this bill, even though it may have some tory, to argue Congress should take in a system that is unique to our coun- political, superficial benefit to them. back from the judges the power to tax. try. I am in the majority a lot in this Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 Mr. BERMAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise in oppo- House, but I cannot start changing minutes to the gentleman from Illinois sition to H.R. 1252. There are many in this every rule that sometimes cuts in my (Mr. MANZULLO). chamber who from time to time have dis- favor and sometimes cuts against me. Mr. MANZULLO. Mr. Chairman, if agreed with decisions rendered by federal There has to be a set of rules that gov- there is any phrase that sums up the judges. Count me among them. But I have al- ern any kind of organized system, and reason for the existence of this Repub- ways felt that our independent life-tenured fed- our court system has a set of rules that lic, that phrase is ‘‘no taxation without eral judiciary is one of the glories of the Amer- govern it. representation.’’ That is not the phrase ican system of government, and that efforts by H2252 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 the Congress to retaliate against particular de- would be treated completely differently by the The story of Charlotte Stout's daughter, cisions are inimical to our larger stake in the federal courts. Because appeals of decisions Cary Ann Medlin is one which is too gruesome preservation of the American constitutional of three judge courts are heard on an expe- and too cruel to recount fully and I won't fur- system. dited basis by the Supreme Court without the ther their suffering by a detailed accountÐnei- That is why I am so strongly opposed to benefit of circuit court review, the laws of ther would Charlotte want me to. She is not an H.R. 1252. It is simply wrong to manipulate those states where the referendum and initia- avenging mother, but a compassionate con- court jurisdiction and procedure as this bill tive processes do not exist could be placed at cerned woman who wants justice for not only would do to try to make it more or less likely a disadvantage. Why would we do that? herself, but all victims of crime. that the federal courts will reach particular re- In all of these instances, I believe the legis- On September 1, 1979 her daughter Cary sults. lation before us threatens the independence of Ann Medlin, age 9, went out to ride her bicycle I am particularly concerned that H.R. 1252 the federal judiciary and imposes increased for a few minutes before dinner. Charlotte seeks to strip the remedial power of the fed- delays and costs for our constituents who never saw her alive again. A man, by his own eral courts, to the detriment of all Americans. seek recourse in the federal courts. This legis- confession, brutally raped, sodomized, and By prohibiting a federal district court from en- lation endangers the balance among the murdered her small child. This man was tering any order or approving any settlement branches of government so carefully wrought brought to trial in 1981 and sentenced to two that could require a state or local government by the Founding Fathers and threatens the life sentences and death by electrocution. This to raise taxesÐand applying this provision to vindication of our constitutional rights. I urge case was appealed in all the appropriate state pending cases, to bootÐthe bill deprives all its defeat. courts. Americans of effective recourse for the vindi- Mr. PACKARD. Mr. Chairman, today we will In 1992 this killer, filed his second petition cation of their rights under federal law. As crit- consider the Judicial Reform Act, a piece of for habeas corpus relief in the federal court. In ics have noted, Brown v. Board of Education legislation that will curb judicial activism by re- December of 1996, after being reprimanded required expenditures to desegregate the pub- straining judges who use their authority to ad- for delay by the chief judge of the district, the lic schools. Would the proponents of this bill vance political agenda rather than uphold the judge finally ruled on this case after having it suggest that the authority of the federal courts laws set forth in the Constitution. As it stands in his court for 4 years and 10 months. should have been limited to declaring seg- now, federal, district and circuit court judges While this one woman's ordeal through the regation unconstitutional, and the courts yield an enormous amount of power, and yet federal court system has made the constitu- barred from ordering desegregation? are accountable to no one. They are not elect- ents of my district question our judicial system And on the very week that we celebrate ed, but are appointed for life. and rightly so, Charlotte did not come to Earth Day, please do not tell me that we are Judicial activism has taken its hold through- Washington to testify about an isolated, single going to deprive the federal judiciary of the out the country. Recently, a federal judge in case. ability to effectively enforce the nation's envi- California declared State proposition 187 un- This federal judge in the middle district of ronmental laws. For all these reasons, I urge constitutional, succumbing to political pres- Tennessee, after very lengthy delays, has support for the amendment to be offered by sures rather than preserving the liberties of overturned 100% of all death penalty cases on our colleagues Mr. DELAHUNT and Mr. BOEH- law-abiding citizens. Now illegal immigrants which he has reached a final decision. Five to LERT to strike Section 5 of the bill. will enjoy public benefits at the expense of ten years is the norm in this judges court and I also note with great concern that Section American taxpayers. Proposition 187 was a in my view this is unacceptable. This judge 6 of the bill would grant parties in federal court ballot initiative that was studied and passed by delayed eight capital cases a combined total the right to remove the judge randomly as- voters in California. One individual had the of over 66 years. The citizens of Tennessee are concerned signed to their case. Because due process power to overturn a statute that was agreed that since the reinstatement of the death pen- guarantees an impartial judge, under current upon by a majority of the electorate. Mr. alty in 1977, this judge has received almost law a party can seek to remove a judge for Speaker, this is not democratic and it is far 100% of the cases prior to 1990. He did not bias or prejudice. But to go further and allow from constitutional! peremptory strikes is to ``replace the traditional The Judicial Reform Act will restrict judges transfer the cases back to the district of origin, process with a dangerous alternative. * * * who practice judicial activism, designating a nor did he recuse himself in hearing the We would be wrong to buy into a proposed re- panel of judges to review U.S. district court cases. The lengthy and constant delays in form whose basic effect is to influence judges decisions when they may be perceived as un- these capital cases has resulted in the victims through considerations extrinsic to the merits constitutional. Establishing new rules is the of crime being denied justice. That is wrong; of a case.'' That is the analysis of the eminent only way to halt this growing problem. Mr. that is an injustice; and I support this section Chief Judge of the 4th Circuit, J. Harvie Speaker, I urge my colleagues to take a closer as a minor response to a grave injustice which Wilkinson, widely viewed as a conservative look at how judicial activism is negatively im- if left unchecked could threaten the very credi- Republican jurist. Why would we seek to intro- pacting their constituents and to support the bility of the judiciary. Again, I thank the Subcommittee for hearing duce strategic judge-shopping based on a Judicial Reform Act. the testimony of Mrs. Charlotte Stout from judge's race, gender, or experience before Mr. TANNER. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to Greenfield, Tennessee and the mother of Cary taking the bench, into what is now the impec- bring to the attention of my colleagues a par- Ann Medlin. cably random assignment of judges to cases, ticular provision of H.R. 1252Ðsection seven: HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE ON COURTS AND INTEL- and in so doing risk chilling decisionmaking in random assignment of habeas corpus cases. LECTUAL PROPERTIES—SUMMARY OF WRIT- This section was added to the bill as a re- difficult cases? TEN TESTIMONY BY CHARLOTTE STOUT, MAY I am heartened that my neighbor and col- sult of the testimony of one of my constituents, 15, 1997 league form California, Mr. ROGAN, will join in Mrs. Charlotte Stout of Greenfield, Tennessee. I am not here today as an avenging moth- seeking to strike Section 6 later today. In light I'd like to submit the testimony of Mrs. Stout er. I am not here because a Federal Judge of his experience as a judge, I hope my col- for the record since I can't hope to duplicate overturned one isolated death penalty case. leagues will carefully consider the concerns her eloquent effort. If that were the case, you could discredit me which prompt him to offer his amendment. Before I begin, let me first say that I under- as an emotional extremist and I would be I also want to make note of Section 2 of the stand the difficulty facing this House in that ju- wasting this committee’s and my time. I rep- bill, which would bring back into federal judi- dicial independence is a cornerstone of our resent almost 27,000 others who are con- cial practice a mechanism largely discarded by democracy; but independence does not mean cerned with and perceive a grave miscarriage of justice in Tennessee. The source of our Congress in 1976 as inefficient and unwieldy, that we as a co-equal branch of government concern is life-time appointed Federal Judge namely three judge panels in the district court. abdicate all responsibility for seeing that jus- John Nixon of the Middle Tennessee District. Section 2 would require a three judge court in tice is done in this country. This House has Judge Nixon has delayed eight counted all cases involving constitutional challenges to heard all to often that justice delayed is justice death penalty cases a compiled total of 65 state referenda and initiatives. The authority of denied. This is yet another unfortunate inci- years and 7 months. He has then overturned the federal judiciary to hear and decide con- dent where this valid statement applies. I be- 100% of all death penalty cases on which he stitutional questions, including challenges to lieve we do have a solemn duty to respond to has reached a final decision. If our concern stemmed from one isolated decision, then I state laws, should not turn on whether the injustice whenever and wherever we can. would also call attention to Judge Morton of challenged law was enacted by a state legisla- This section is a response to an injustice Middle Tennessee who has also overturned a ture or by a state's voters. Indeed, Section 2 and I commend Chairman COBLE and his staff death penalty case. Our concerns stems from would create the anomalous result that iden- for working diligently with me and Mr. several reasons, not just Judge Nixon’s deci- tical laws adopted by two different states DELAHUNT to add this important provision. sion on one case. We are concerned with the April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2253 consistency with which Judge Nixon makes liam Rehnquist said to the Washington Col- or other measure of a State that has the force of his decisions. We are concerned about the in- lege of Law, ‘‘It would be a mistake to think law, and any amendment thereto; ordinate delays on death penalty cases in his that just because a certain kind of judicial (3) the term ‘‘referendum’’ means the submis- court. We are concerned because of his mis- business has always been conducted in a par- sion to popular vote, by the voters of the State, conduct in office by accepting an award from ticular way in the past, it therefore ought to of a measure passed upon or proposed by a leg- a group who has a previously stated con- be conducted that way in the future.’’ islative body or by popular initiative; and troversial point of view on a legal issue. We We, the people, have only one voice, the (4) the term ‘‘anticipatory relief’’ means an in- are concerned with the amount of financial voice of our elected Representatives. terlocutory or permanent injunction or a declar- reimbursement he has authorized in capital The CHAIRMAN. All time has ex- atory judgment. cases. We are concerned that since the rein- pired. (c) EFFECTIVE DATE.—This section applies to statement of capital punishment in Ten- The amendment in the nature of a any application for anticipatory relief that is nessee in 1977, Judge Nixon received almost substitute printed in the bill, modified filed on or after the date of the enactment of 100% of the cases prior to 1990. He did not by striking section 9 and redesignating this Act. transfer the cases back to the district of ori- SEC. 3. INTERLOCUTORY APPEALS OF COURT OR- gin, nor did he recuse himself from hearing each succeeding section accordingly, shall be considered by sections as an DERS RELATING TO CLASS ACTIONS. the cases. And finally, we are concerned (a) INTERLOCUTORY APPEALS.—Section 1292(b) about the system for filing judicial com- original bill for the purpose of amend- of title 28, United States Code, is amended— plaints. Twelve (12) complaints were offi- ment. Pursuant to the rule, each sec- (1) by inserting ‘‘(1)’’ after ‘‘(b)’’; and cially filed against Judge Nixon in the 6th tion is considered as read. (2) by adding at the end the following: Circuit Court. These were reviewed by a During consideration of the bill for ‘‘(2) A party to an action in which the district judge who is his peer and social acquaint- amendment, the Chair may accord pri- court has made a determination of whether the ance. action may be maintained as a class action may From the Governor, (and past Governor) to ority in recognition to a Member offer- make application for appeal of that determina- the ‘‘blue-collar’’ workers, from East Ten- ing an amendment that he has printed tion to the court of appeals which would have nessee to West Tennessee, thousands believe in the designated place in the CONGRES- jurisdiction of an appeal of that action. The that Judge Nixon is opposed to capital pun- SIONAL RECORD. Those amendments court of appeals may, in its discretion, permit ishment and is allowing his personal convic- will be considered as read. the appeal to be taken from such determination tions to obstruct the law of the State of Ten- The Chairman of the Committee of nessee. Tennessee Senate Joint Resolution 41 if the application is made within 10 days after the Whole may postpone a request for a the entry of the court’s determination relating has been proposed by Senator Tommy Burks recorded vote on any amendment, and which is a resolution memorializing the U.S. to the class action. Application for an appeal Congress to initiate impeachment proceed- may reduce to a minimum of 5 minutes under this paragraph shall not stay proceedings ings against U.S. District Court Judge John the time for voting on any postponed in the district court unless the district judge or T. Nixon. We believe, Judge Nixon who is ap- question that immediately follows an- the court of appeals or a judge thereof shall so pointed for a life-time term, will continue to other vote, provided that the time for order.’’. overturn death penalty convictions and (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendment made voting on the first question shall be a by subsection (a) applies to any action com- order new trials, if he is allowed to continue minimum of 15 minutes. in his historic path. I cannot begin to elabo- menced on or after the date of the enactment of The Clerk will designate section 1. this Act. rate on the number of newspaper editorials, The text of section 1 is as follows: TV news segments, and public commentaries SEC. 4. PROCEEDINGS ON COMPLAINTS AGAINST Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Rep- JUDICIAL CONDUCT. that have been expressed against Judge resentatives of the United States of America in (a) REFERRAL OF PROCEEDINGS TO ANOTHER Nixon. A Federal Judge, who is appointed for Congress assembled, life is holding the citizens of Tennessee ‘‘hos- JUDICIAL CIRCUIT OR COURT.—Section 372(c) of SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. tage’’ to his conscientious beliefs. He does title 28, United States Code, is amended— This Act may be cited as the ‘‘Judicial Reform have the right to his beliefs. No one disputes (1) in paragraph (1) by adding at the end the Act of 1998’’. that. But when those beliefs interfere with following: ‘‘In the case of a complaint so identi- the administration of justice and the per- The CHAIRMAN. Are there any fied, the chief judge shall notify the clerk of the formance of his duties as an officer of the amendments to section 1? court of appeals of the complaint, together with court, he should be removed or at the very Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I ask a brief statement of the facts underlying the least restrained. Capital punishment has unanimous consent that the remainder complaint.’’; been ruled to be constitutionally appro- of the amendment in the nature of a (2) in paragraph (2) in the second sentence by priate. How then, can one individual be al- substitute, as modified, be printed in inserting ‘‘or statement of facts underlying the lowed to hold his beliefs above the law be- complaint (as the case may be)’’ after ‘‘copy of the RECORD and open to amendment at cause he is a Federal Judge? He is frustrat- the complaint’’; ing the entire legal system in our state. To any point. (3) in paragraph (3)— what purpose do our law enforcement offi- The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection (A) by inserting ‘‘(A)’’ after ‘‘(3)’’; cers, prosecuting attorneys, Judges and to the request of the gentleman from (B) by striking ‘‘may—’’ and all that follows courts spend countless hours and taxpayer North Carolina? through the end of subparagraph (B) and in- dollars to bring criminals to swift and sound There was no objection. serting the following: ‘‘may dismiss the com- justice. How can due process be served when The text of the remainder of the plaint if the chief judge finds it to be— delays of 10 years exist in one court? A fair amendment in the nature of a sub- ‘‘(i) not in conformity with paragraph (1); trial after two decades will be impossible for stitute, as modified, is as follows: ‘‘(ii) directly related to the merits of a decision any of these cases. What a tragedy if any one SEC. 2. 3-JUDGE COURT FOR ANTICIPATORY RE- or procedural ruling; or of these men is innocent. What a tragedy if LIEF. ‘‘(iii) frivolous.’’; and they are guilty and allowed to abuse the sys- (a) REQUIREMENT OF 3-JUDGE COURT.—Any (C) by adding at the end the following: tem. What a tragedy if a Federal Judge is al- application for anticipatory relief against the ‘‘(B) If the chief judge does not enter an order lowed flagrant misconduct in office and our enforcement, operation, or execution of a State under subparagraph (A), then the complaint or elected Representatives refuse to act for the law adopted by referendum shall not be granted (in the case of a complaint identified under sake of protecting the independence of the by a United States district court or judge thereof paragraph (1)) the statement of facts underlying judiciary. The framers of our Constitution upon the ground that the State law is repug- the complaint shall be referred to the chief judge surely never intended for one branch of the nant to the Constitution, treaties, or laws of the of another judicial circuit for proceedings under government to act completely independent United States unless the application for antici- this subsection (hereafter in this subsection re- of the other two branches. If that were the patory relief is heard and determined by a court ferred to as the ‘chief judge’), in accordance case, there would be no true system of of 3 judges in accordance with section 2284 of with a system established by rule by the Judicial checks and balances. title 28, United States Code. Any appeal of a de- Conference, which prescribes the circuits to We realize that only 15 judges have ever termination on such application shall be to the which the complaints will be referred. The Judi- been brought up on impeachment charges Supreme Court. In any case to which this sec- cial Conference shall establish and submit to the and only seven of them have been convicted tion applies, the additional judges who will Congress the system described in the preceding and removed from the bench. We realize the serve on the 3-judge court shall be designated sentence not later than 180 days after the date grounds for impeachment are complex. The under section 2284(b)(1) of title 28, United States of the enactment of the Judicial Reform Act of Constitution sets the framework for im- Code, as soon as practicable, and the court shall 1998. peachment and defines an impeachable of- expedite the consideration of the application for ‘‘(C) After expeditiously reviewing the com- fense as ‘‘High crimes or misdemeanors’’ but anticipatory relief. plaint, the chief judge may, by written order ex- also states that judges who have lifetime ap- (b) DEFINITIONS.—As used in this section— plaining the chief judge’s reasons, conclude the pointments must be of ‘‘good behavior’’. Our (1) the term ‘‘State’’ means each of the several proceeding if the chief judge finds that appro- elected Representatives can define the pa- States and the District of Columbia; priate corrective action has been taken or that rameters of good behavior. On April 9, 1996, (2) the term ‘‘State law’’ means the constitu- action on the complaint is no longer necessary Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court Wil- tion of a State, or any statute, rule, regulation, because of intervening events.’’; H2254 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 (4) in paragraph (4)— ‘‘(2) The limitation contained in paragraph (1) sidered to be a statute of the District of Colum- (A) by striking ‘‘paragraph (3)’’ and inserting shall apply only to any order or settlement bia.’’. ‘‘paragraph (3)(C)’’; and which— (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of (B) in subparagraph (A) by inserting ‘‘(to ‘‘(A) expressly directs any State, or political contents for chapter 85 of title 28, United States which the complaint or statement of facts un- subdivision of a State, to impose, increase, levy, Code, is amended by adding after the item relat- derlying the complaint is referred)’’ after ‘‘the or assess any tax; or ing to section 1368 the following new item: circuit’’; ‘‘(B) will necessarily require a State, or politi- ‘‘1369. Limitation on Federal court remedies.’’. (5) in paragraph (5)— cal subdivision of a State, to impose, increase, (A) in the first sentence by inserting ‘‘to (c) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing con- levy, or assess any tax. tained in this section or the amendments made which the complaint or statement of facts un- ‘‘(3) If the court finds that the conditions set by this section shall be construed to make legal, derlying the complaint is referred’’ after ‘‘the forth in paragraph (1) have been satisfied, it validate, or approve the imposition of a tax, circuit’’; and shall enter an order incorporating that finding, levy, or assessment by a United States district (B) in the second sentence by striking ‘‘the and that order shall be subject to immediate in- court or a spending measure required by a circuit’’ and inserting ‘‘that circuit’’; terlocutory de novo review. United States district court. (6) in the first sentence of paragraph (15) by ‘‘(4) A remedy permitted under paragraph (1) (d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—This section and the inserting before the period at the end the follow- shall not extend beyond the case or controversy amendments made by this section shall apply ing: ‘‘in which the complaint was filed or identi- before the court. with respect to any action or other proceeding fied under paragraph (1)’’; and ‘‘(5)(A) Notwithstanding any law or rule of (7) by amending paragraph (18) to read as fol- in a Federal court that is pending on, or com- procedure, any person or entity whose tax li- lows: menced on or after, the date of the enactment of ability would be directly affected by the imposi- ‘‘(18) The Judicial Conference shall prescribe this Act, and the 1-year limitation set forth in tion of a tax under paragraph (1) shall have the rules, consistent with the preceding provisions subsection (b) of section 1369 of title 28, United right to intervene in any proceeding concerning of this subsection— States Code, as added by this section, shall the imposition of the tax, except that the court ‘‘(A) establishing procedures for the filing of apply to any court order or settlement described may deny intervention if it finds that the inter- complaints with respect to the conduct of any in subsection (a)(1) of such section 1369, that is est of that person or entity is adequately rep- judge of the United States Court of Federal in effect on the date of the enactment of this resented by existing parties. Claims, the Court of International Trade, or the Act. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, and ‘‘(B) A person or entity that intervenes pursu- ant to subparagraph (A) shall have the right SEC. 6. REASSIGNMENT OF CASE AS OF RIGHT. for the investigation and resolution of such com- (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 21 of title 28, plaints; and to— ‘‘(i) present evidence and appear before the United States Code, is amended by adding at the ‘‘(B) establishing a system for referring com- end the following: plaints filed with respect to the conduct of a court to present oral and written testimony; and judge of any such court to any of the first elev- ‘‘(ii) appeal any finding required to be made ‘‘§ 464. Reassignment of cases upon motion by en judicial circuits or to another court for inves- by this section, or any other related action a party tigation and resolution. taken to impose, increase, levy, or assess the tax ‘‘(a) UPON MOTION.—(1) If all parties on one that is the subject of the intervention. The Judicial Conference shall establish and sub- side of a civil case to be tried in a United States ‘‘(b) TERMINATION OF ORDERS.—Notwith- mit to the Congress the system described in sub- district court described in subsection (e) bring a standing any law or rule of procedure, any motion to reassign the case, the case shall be re- paragraph (B) not later than 180 days after the order of, or settlement approved by, a district date of the enactment of the Judicial Reform Act assigned to another appropriate judicial officer. court requiring the imposition, increase, levy, or Each side shall be entitled to one reassignment of 1998.’’. assessment of a tax pursuant to subsection (b) DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION.—Section without cause as a matter of right. (a)(1) shall automatically terminate or expire on 372(c)(14) of title 28, United States Code, is ‘‘(2) If any question arises as to which parties the date that is— amended— should be grouped together as a side for pur- ‘‘(1) 1 year after the date of the imposition of (1) in subparagraph (B) by striking ‘‘or’’ after poses of this section, the chief judge of the court the tax; or the semicolon; of appeals for the circuit in which the case is to (2) in subparagraph (C) by striking the period ‘‘(2) an earlier date, if the court determines be tried, or another judge of the court of appeals at the end and inserting ‘‘; or’’; and that the deprivation of rights that is addressed designated by the chief judge, shall determine (3) by adding after subparagraph (C) the fol- by the order or settlement has been cured to the that question. lowing: extent practicable. ‘‘(b) REQUIREMENTS FOR BRINGING MOTION.— ‘‘(D) such disclosure is made to another agen- Any new such order or settlement relating to the (1) Subject to paragraph (2), a motion to reas- cy or instrumentality of any governmental juris- same issue is subject to all the requirements of sign under this section shall not be entertained diction within or under the control the United this section. unless it is brought, not later than 20 days after States for a civil or criminal law enforcement ‘‘(c) PREEMPTION.—This section shall not be notice of the original assignment of the case, to activity authorized by law.’’. construed to preempt any law of a State or po- the judicial officer to whom the case is assigned (c) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made litical subdivision thereof that imposes limita- for the purpose of hearing or deciding any mat- by subsection (a) apply to complaints filed on or tions on, or otherwise restricts the imposition of, ter. Such motion shall be granted if— after the 180th day after the date of the enact- a tax, levy, or assessment that is imposed in re- ‘‘(A) it is presented before trial or hearing be- ment of this Act. sponse to a court order or settlement referred to gins and before the judicial officer to whom it is SEC. 5. LIMITATION ON COURT-IMPOSED TAXES. in subsection (b). presented has ruled on any substantial issue in (a) LIMITATION.—Chapter 85 of title 28, United ‘‘(d) ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS ON COURT AC- the case, or States Code, is amended by adding at the end TION.—(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), ‘‘(B) it is presented by consent of the parties the following new section: nothing in this section may be construed to on all sides. ‘‘§ 1369. Limitation on Federal court remedies allow a Federal court to, for the purpose of ‘‘(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1)— ‘‘(A) a party joined in a civil action after the ‘‘(a) LIMITATION ON COURT-IMPOSED TAXES.— funding the administration of an order or settle- (1) No district court may enter any order or ap- ment referred to in subsection (b), use funds ac- initial filing may, with the concurrence of the prove any settlement that requires any State, or quired by a State or political subdivision thereof other parties on the same side, bring a motion political subdivision of a State, to impose, in- from a tax imposed by the State or political sub- under this section within 20 days after the serv- crease, levy, or assess any tax, unless the court division thereof. ice of the complaint on that party; ‘‘(B) a party served with a supplemental or finds by clear and convincing evidence, that— ‘‘(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply to any tax, ‘‘(A) there are no other means available to levy, or assessment that may, in accordance amended complaint or a third-party complaint remedy the deprivation of a right under the with applicable State or local law, be used to in a civil action may, with the concurrence of Constitution of the United States; fund the actions of a State or political subdivi- the other parties on the same side, bring a mo- ‘‘(B) the proposed imposition, increase, levy- sion thereof in meeting the requirements of an tion under this section within 20 days after serv- ing, or assessment is narrowly tailored to rem- order or settlement referred to in subsection (b). ice on that party of the supplemental, amended, edy the specific deprivation at issue so that the ‘‘(e) NOTICE TO STATES.—The court shall pro- or third-party complaint; and remedy imposed is directly related to the harm vide written notice to a State or political sub- ‘‘(C) rulings in a case by the judicial officer caused by the deprivation; division thereof subject to an order or settlement on any substantial issue before a party who has ‘‘(C) the tax will not contribute to or exacer- referred to in subsection (b) with respect to any not been found in default enters an appearance bate the deprivation intended to be remedied; finding required to be made by the court under in the case shall not be grounds for denying an ‘‘(D) plans submitted to the court by State subsection (a). Such notice shall be provided be- otherwise timely and appropriate motion and local authorities will not effectively redress fore the beginning of the next fiscal year of that brought by that party under this section. the deprivations at issue; State or political subdivision occurring after the ‘‘(3) No motion under this section may be ‘‘(E) the interests of State and local authori- order or settlement is issued. brought by the party or parties on a side in a ties in managing their affairs are not usurped, ‘‘(f) SPECIAL RULES.—For purposes of this sec- case if any party or parties on that side have in violation of the Constitution, by the proposed tion— previously brought a motion to reassign under imposition, increase, levying, or assessment; and ‘‘(1) the District of Columbia shall be consid- this section in that case. ‘‘(F) the proposed tax will not result in the ered to be a State; and ‘‘(c) COSTS OF TRAVEL TO NEW LOCATION.—(1) loss or depreciation of property values of the ‘‘(2) any Act of Congress applicable exclu- If a motion to reassign brought under this sec- taxpayers who are affected. sively to the District of Columbia shall be con- tion requires a change in location for purposes April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2255

of appearing before a newly assigned judicial proceeding concerned. In proceedings in which ‘‘(d) NOTIFICATION OF JUDICIAL PANEL ON officer, the party or parties bringing the motion more than one judge participates, the presiding MULTIDISTRICT LITIGATION.—A district court in shall pay the reasonable costs incurred by the judge shall be the senior active judge so partici- which an action under this section is pending parties on different sides of the case in travel- pating or, in the case of a circuit court of ap- shall promptly notify the judicial panel on ling to the new location for all matters associ- peals, the senior active circuit judge so partici- multidistrict litigation of the pendency of the ated with the case requiring an appearance at pating, except that— action.’’. the new location. In a case in which both sides (A) in en banc sittings of any United States (2) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of bring a motion to reassign under this section circuit court of appeals, the presiding judge sections at the beginning of chapter 85 of title that requires a change in location, the party or shall be the chief judge of the circuit whenever 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at parties bringing the motions on both sides shall the chief judge participates; and the end the following new item: split the travelling costs referred to in the pre- (B) in en banc sittings of the Supreme Court ‘‘1370. Multiparty, multiforum jurisdiction.’’. ceding sentence. of the United States, the presiding judge shall (b) VENUE.—Section 1391 of title 28, United ‘‘(2) For parties financially unable to obtain be the Chief Justice whenever the Chief Justice States Code, is amended by adding at the end adequate representation, the Government shall participates. the following: pay the reasonable costs under paragraph (1). (2) APPELLATE COURT OF THE UNITED ‘‘(g) A civil action in which jurisdiction of the ‘‘(d) DEFINITION.—As used in this section, the STATES.—The term ‘‘appellate court of the district court is based upon section 1370 of this term ‘appropriate judicial officer’ means— United States’’ means any United States circuit title may be brought in any district in which ‘‘(1) a United States magistrate judge in a court of appeals and the Supreme Court of the any defendant resides or in which a substantial case referred to such a magistrate judge; and United States. part of the accident giving rise to the action ‘‘(2) a United States district court judge in (e) SUNSET.—The authority under subsection took place.’’. any other case before a United States district (b) shall terminate on the date that is 3 years (c) MULTIDISTRICT LITIGATION.—Section 1407 court. after the date of the enactment of this Act. ‘‘(e) DISTRICT COURTS THAT MAY AUTHORIZE of title 28, United States Code, is amended by SEC. 9. MULTIPARTY, MULTIFORUM JURISDIC- adding at the end the following: REASSIGNMENT.—The district courts referred to TION OF DISTRICT COURTS. in subsection (a) are the district courts for the ‘‘(i)(1) In actions transferred under this sec- (a) BASIS OF JURISDICTION.— tion when jurisdiction is or could have been 21 judicial districts for which the President is di- (1) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 85 of title 28, United rected to appoint the largest numbers of perma- based, in whole or in part, on section 1370 of States Code, is amended by adding at the end this title, the transferee district court may, not- nent judges. the following new section: ‘‘(f) 3-JUDGE COURT CASES EXCLUDED.—This withstanding any other provision of this sec- section shall not apply to any civil action re- ‘‘§ 1370. Multiparty, multiforum jurisdiction tion, retain actions so transferred for the deter- quired to be heard and determined by a district ‘‘(a) IN GENERAL.—The district courts shall mination of liability and punitive damages. An court of 3 judges.’’. have original jurisdiction of any civil action in- action retained for the determination of liability (b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT.—The table of con- volving minimal diversity between adverse par- shall be remanded to the district court from tents for chapter 21 of title 28, United States ties that arises from a single accident, where at which the action was transferred, or to the Code, is amended by adding at the end the fol- least 25 natural persons have either died or in- State court from which the action was removed, lowing new item: curred injury in the accident at a discrete loca- for the determination of damages, other than ‘‘464. Reassignment of cases upon motion by a tion and, in the case of injury, the injury has punitive damages, unless the court finds, for the party.’’. resulted in damages which exceed $50,000 per convenience of parties and witnesses and in the person, exclusive of interest and costs, if— interest of justice, that the action should be re- (c) MONITORING.—The Federal Judicial Center tained for the determination of damages. shall monitor the use of the right to bring a mo- ‘‘(1) a defendant resides in a State and a sub- ‘‘(2) Any remand under paragraph (1) shall tion to reassign a case under section 464 of title stantial part of the accident took place in an- not be effective until 60 days after the transferee 28, United States Code, as added by subsection other State or other location, regardless of court has issued an order determining liability (a) of this section, and shall report annually to whether that defendant is also a resident of the and has certified its intention to remand some or the Congress its findings on the basis of such State where a substantial part of the accident all of the transferred actions for the determina- monitoring. took place; ‘‘(2) any two defendants reside in different tion of damages. An appeal with respect to the (d) SUNSET.—Effective 5 years after the date of the enactment of this Act, section 464 of title States, regardless of whether such defendants liability determination and the choice of law de- 28, United States Code, and the item relating to are also residents of the same State or States; or termination of the transferee court may be taken that section in the table of contents for chapter ‘‘(3) substantial parts of the accident took during that 60-day period to the court of ap- 21 of such title, are repealed, except that such place in different States. peals with appellate jurisdiction over the trans- repeal shall not affect civil cases reassigned ‘‘(b) SPECIAL RULES AND DEFINITIONS.—For feree court. In the event a party files such an under such section 464 before the date of repeal. purposes of this section— appeal, the remand shall not be effective until ‘‘(1) minimal diversity exists between adverse the appeal has been finally disposed of. Once SEC. 7. RANDOM ASSIGNMENT OF HABEAS COR- PUS CASES. parties if any party is a citizen of a State and the remand has become effective, the liability Section 2241 of title 28, United States Code, is any adverse party is a citizen of another State, determination and the choice of law determina- amended by adding at the end the following: a citizen or subject of a foreign state, or a for- tion shall not be subject to further review by ap- ‘‘(e) Applications for writs of habeas corpus eign state as defined in section 1603(a) of this peal or otherwise. received in or transferred to a district court title; ‘‘(3) An appeal with respect to determination shall be randomly assigned to the judges of that ‘‘(2) a corporation is deemed to be a citizen of of punitive damages by the transferee court may court.’’. any State, and a citizen or subject of any for- be taken, during the 60-day period beginning on eign state, in which it is incorporated or has its the date the order making the determination is SEC. 8. AUTHORITY OF PRESIDING JUDGE TO ALLOW MEDIA COVERAGE OF APPEL- principal place of business, and is deemed to be issued, to the court of appeals with jurisdiction LATE COURT PROCEEDINGS. a resident of any State in which it is incor- over the transferee court. (a) AUTHORITY OF APPELLATE COURTS.—Not- porated or licensed to do business or is doing ‘‘(4) Any decision under this subsection con- withstanding any other provision of law, the business; cerning remand for the determination of dam- presiding judge of an appellate court of the ‘‘(3) the term ‘injury’ means— ages shall not be reviewable by appeal or other- United States may, in his or her discretion, per- ‘‘(A) physical harm to a natural person; and wise. mit the photographing, electronic recording, ‘‘(B) physical damage to or destruction of tan- ‘‘(5) Nothing in this subsection shall restrict broadcasting, or televising to the public of court gible property, but only if physical harm de- the authority of the transferee court to transfer proceedings over which that judge presides. scribed in subparagraph (A) exists; or dismiss an action on the ground of inconven- (b) AUTHORITY OF DISTRICT COURTS.—Not- ‘‘(4) the term ‘accident’ means a sudden acci- ient forum.’’. withstanding any other provision of law, any dent, or a natural event culminating in an acci- (d) REMOVAL OF ACTIONS.—Section 1441 of presiding judge of a district court of the United dent, that results in death or injury incurred at title 28, United States Code, is amended— States may, in his or her discretion, permit the a discrete location by at least 25 natural per- (1) in subsection (e) by striking ‘‘(e) The court photographing, electronic recording, broadcast- sons; and to which such civil action is removed’’ and in- ing, or televising to the public of court proceed- ‘‘(5) the term ‘State’ includes the District of serting ‘‘(f) The court to which a civil action is ings over which that judge presides. Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, removed under this section’’; and (c) ADVISORY GUIDELINES.—The Judicial Con- and any territory or possession of the United (2) by inserting after subsection (d) the follow- ference of the United States is authorized to States. ing new subsection: promulgate advisory guidelines to which a pre- ‘‘(c) INTERVENING PARTIES.—In any action in ‘‘(e)(1) Notwithstanding the provisions of sub- siding judge, in his or her discretion, may refer a district court which is or could have been section (b) of this section, a defendant in a civil in making decisions with respect to the manage- brought, in whole or in part, under this section, action in a State court may remove the action to ment and administration of photographing, re- any person with a claim arising from the acci- the district court of the United States for the cording, broadcasting, or televising described in dent described in subsection (a) shall be per- district and division embracing the place where subsections (a) and (b). mitted to intervene as a party plaintiff in the the action is pending if— (d) DEFINITIONS.—As used in this section: action, even if that person could not have ‘‘(A) the action could have been brought in a (1) PRESIDING JUDGE.—The term ‘‘presiding brought an action in a district court as an origi- United States district court under section 1370 of judge’’ means the judge presiding over the court nal matter. this title, or H2256 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998

‘‘(B) the defendant is a party to an action importance with respect to the particular action. (b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made which is or could have been brought, in whole If good cause is shown in exceptional cases, in- by subsection (a) take effect on the date of the or in part, under section 1370 in a United States cluding constitutional reasons, the court may enactment of this Act and apply to any adminis- district court and arises from the same accident allow the law of more than one State to be ap- trative or judicial proceeding pending on that as the action in State court, even if the action plied with respect to a party, claim, or other ele- date or commenced on or after that date. to be removed could not have been brought in a ment of an action. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any district court as an original matter. ‘‘(b) ORDER DESIGNATING CHOICE OF LAW.— amendments to the bill? The removal of an action under this subsection The district court making the determination AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. COBLE shall be made in accordance with section 1446 of under subsection (a) shall enter an order des- this title, except that a notice of removal may ignating the single jurisdiction whose sub- Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I offer an also be filed before trial of the action in State stantive law is to be applied in all other actions amendment. court within 30 days after the date on which the under section 1370 arising from the same acci- The Clerk read as follows: defendant first becomes a party to an action dent as that giving rise to the action in which Amendment offered by Mr. COBLE: under section 1370 in a United States district the determination is made. The substantive law Add the following at the end: court that arises from the same accident as the of the designated jurisdiction shall be applied to SEC. 11. EXTENSION OF JUDICIARY INFORMA- action in State court, or at a later time with the parties and claims in all such actions before TION TECHNOLOGY FUND. leave of the district court. the court, and to all other elements of each ac- Section 612 of title 28, United States Code, ‘‘(2) Whenever an action is removed under this tion, except where Federal law applies or the is amended— subsection and the district court to which it is order specifically provides for the application of (1) by striking ‘‘equipment’’ each place it removed or transferred under section 1407(i) has the law of another jurisdiction with respect to a appears and inserting ‘‘resources’’; made a liability determination requiring further party, claim, or other element of an action. (2) by striking subsection (f) and redesig- proceedings as to damages, the district court ‘‘(c) CONTINUATION OF CHOICE OF LAW AFTER nating subsequent subsections accordingly; shall remand the action to the State court from REMAND.—In an action remanded to another (3) in subsection (g), as so redesignated, by which it had been removed for the determina- district court or a State court under section striking paragraph (3); and tion of damages, unless the court finds that, for 1407(i)(1) or 1441(e)(2) of this title, the district (4) in subsection (i), as so redesignated— the convenience of parties and witnesses and in court’s choice of law under subsection (b) shall (A) by striking ‘‘Judiciary’’ each place it the interest of justice, the action should be re- continue to apply.’’. appears and inserting ‘‘judiciary’’; tained for the determination of damages. (2) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of (B) by striking ‘‘subparagraph (c)(1)(B)’’ ‘‘(3) Any remand under paragraph (2) shall sections at the beginning of chapter 111 of title and inserting ‘‘subsection (c)(1)(B)’’; and not be effective until 60 days after the district 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at (C) by striking ‘‘under (c)(1)(B)’’ and in- court has issued an order determining liability the end the following new item: serting ‘‘under subsection (c)(1)(B)’’. and has certified its intention to remand the re- ‘‘1660. Choice of law in multiparty, multiforum SEC. 12. OFFSETTING RECEIPTS. moved action for the determination of damages. actions.’’. For fiscal year 1999 and thereafter, any An appeal with respect to the liability deter- (f) SERVICE OF PROCESS.— portion of miscellaneous fees collected as mination and the choice of law determination of (1) OTHER THAN SUBPOENAS.—(A) Chapter 113 prescribed by the Judicial Conference of the the district court may be taken during that 60- of title 28, United States Code, is amended by United States pursuant to sections 1913, day period to the court of appeals with appel- adding at the end the following new section: 1914(b), 1926(a), 1930(b), and 1932 of title 28, late jurisdiction over the district court. In the ‘‘§ 1697. Service in multiparty, multiforum ac- United States Code, exceeding the amount of event a party files such an appeal, the remand tions such fees in effect on September 30, 1998, shall not be effective until the appeal has been shall be deposited into the special fund of the finally disposed of. Once the remand has become ‘‘When the jurisdiction of the district court is based in whole or in part upon section 1370 of Treasury established under section 1931 of effective, the liability determination and the title 28, United States Code. choice of law determination shall not be subject this title, process, other than subpoenas, may be served at any place within the United States, or SEC. 13. MEMBERSHIP IN CIRCUIT JUDICIAL to further review by appeal or otherwise. COUNCILS. ‘‘(4) Any decision under this subsection con- anywhere outside the United States if otherwise permitted by law.’’. Section 332(a) of title 28, United States cerning remand for the determination of dam- Code, is amended— ages shall not be reviewable by appeal or other- (B) The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 113 of title 28, United States Code, is (1) by striking paragraph (1) and inserting wise. the following: ‘‘(5) An action removed under this subsection amended by adding at the end the following new item: ‘‘(1) The chief judge of each judicial circuit shall be deemed to be an action under section shall call and preside at a meeting of the ju- ‘‘1697. Service in multiparty, multiforum ac- 1370 and an action in which jurisdiction is dicial council of the circuit at least twice in tions.’’. based on section 1368 of this title for purposes of each year and at such places as he or she this section and sections 1407, 1660, 1697, and (2) SERVICE OF SUBPOENAS.—(A) Chapter 117 may designate. The council shall consist of 1785 of this title. of title 28, United States Code, is amended by an equal number of circuit judges (including ‘‘(6) Nothing in this subsection shall restrict adding at the end the following new section: the chief judge of the circuit) and district the authority of the district court to transfer or ‘‘§ 1785. Subpoenas in multiparty, multiforum judges, as such number is determined by ma- dismiss an action on the ground of inconvenient actions jority vote of all such judges of the circuit in forum.’’. regular active service.’’; (e) CHOICE OF LAW.— ‘‘When the jurisdiction of the district court is (1) DETERMINATION BY THE COURT.—Chapter based in whole or in part upon section 1370 of (2) by striking paragraph (3) and inserting 111 of title 28, United States Code, is amended this title, a subpoena for attendance at a hear- the following: by adding at the end the following new section: ing or trial may, if authorized by the court upon ‘‘(3) Except for the chief judge of the cir- cuit, either judges in regular active service ‘‘§ 1660. Choice of law in multiparty, motion for good cause shown, and upon such or judges retired from regular active service multiforum actions terms and conditions as the court may impose, be served at any place within the United States, under section 371(b) of this title may serve as ‘‘(a) FACTORS.—In an action which is or could or anywhere outside the United States if other- members of the council.’’; and have been brought, in whole or in part, under wise permitted by law.’’. (3) by striking ‘‘retirement,’’ in paragraph section 1370 of this title, the district court in (B) The table of sections at the beginning of (5) and inserting ‘‘retirement under section which the action is brought or to which it is re- chapter 117 of title 28, United States Code, is 371(a) or section 372(a) of this title,’’. moved shall determine the source of the applica- amended by adding at the end the following SEC. 14. SUNSET OF CIVIL JUSTICE EXPENSE AND ble substantive law, except that if an action is new item: DELAY REDUCTION PLANS. transferred to another district court, the trans- Section 103(b)(2)(A) of the Civil Justice Re- feree court shall determine the source of the ap- ‘‘1785. Subpoenas in multiparty, multiforum ac- tions.’’. form Act of 1990 (Public Law 101–650; 104 plicable substantive law. In making this deter- Stat. 5096; 28 U.S.C. 471 note), as amended by (g) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made mination, a district court shall not be bound by Public Law 105–53 (111 Stat. 1173), is amended by this section shall apply to a civil action if the the choice of law rules of any State, and the by inserting ‘‘471,’’ after ‘‘sections’’. factors that the court may consider in choosing accident giving rise to the cause of action oc- curred on or after the 90th day after the date of SEC. 15. CREATION OF CERTIFYING OFFICERS IN the applicable law include— THE JUDICIAL BRANCH. ‘‘(1) the place of the injury; the enactment of this Act. (a) APPOINTMENT OF DISBURSING AND CER- ‘‘(2) the place of the conduct causing the in- SEC. 10. APPEALS OF MERIT SYSTEMS PROTEC- TIFYING OFFICERS.—Chapter 41 of title 28, jury; TION BOARD. United States Code, is amended by adding at ‘‘(3) the principal places of business or (a) APPEALS.—Section 7703 of title 5, United the end the following new section: domiciles of the parties; States Code, is amended— ‘‘(4) the danger of creating unnecessary in- (1) in subsection (b)(1), by striking ‘‘30’’ and ‘‘§ 613. Disbursing and certifying officers centives for forum shopping; and inserting ‘‘60’’; and ‘‘(a) DISBURSING OFFICERS.—The Director ‘‘(5) whether the choice of law would be rea- (2) in the first sentence of subsection (d), by may designate in writing officers and em- sonably foreseeable to the parties. inserting after ‘‘filing’’ the following: ‘‘, within ployees of the judicial branch of the Govern- The factors set forth in paragraphs (1) through 60 days after the date the Director received no- ment, including the courts as defined in sec- (5) shall be evaluated according to their relative tice of the final order or decision of the Board,’’. tion 610 other than the Supreme Court, to be April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2257 disbursing officers in such numbers and loca- controversial provisions, but which AMENDMENT NO. 3 OFFERED BY MR. DELAHUNT tions as the Director considers necessary. will aid in making the judiciary func- Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I Such disbursing officers shall— tion more efficiently, and will clarify offer an amendment. ‘‘(1) disburse moneys appropriated to the certain provisions of the law as they The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- judicial branch and other funds only in strict accordance with payment requests certified pertain to the third branch. ignate the amendment. by the Director or in accordance with sub- In short, the amendment will extend The text of the amendment is as fol- section (b); the Judiciary Information Technology lows: ‘‘(2) examine payment requests as nec- Fund, allow the judiciary to retain any Amendment No. 3 Offered by Mr. essary to ascertain whether they are in prop- additional offsetting receipts derived DELAHUNT: er form, certified, and approved; and from increases in miscellaneous fees Page 9, strike lines 13 through 20 and insert ‘‘(3) be held accountable for their actions charged in the Federal courts, enhance the following: as provided by law, except that such a dis- membership in Circuit Judicial Coun- ‘‘(2) The limitation contained in paragraph (1) shall apply only to any order or settle- bursing officer shall not be held accountable cils, sunset the Civil Justice Expense or responsible for any illegal, improper, or ment which expressly directs any State, or incorrect payment resulting from any false, Plan, and create certifying officers in political subdivision of a State, to impose, inaccurate, or misleading certificate for the judicial branch. increase, levy, or assess any tax. which a certifying officer is responsible I urge my colleagues to support this Redesignate succeeding paragraphs accord- under subsection (b). technical amendment, which I believe ingly. ‘‘(b) CERTIFYING OFFICERS.—(1) The Direc- contains no controversial matter. Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, tor may designate in writing officers and em- Summary follows for purposes of questions or some context is needed to understand ployees of the judicial branch of the Govern- explanation ment, including the courts as defined in sec- this amendment. Reference was made Extension of the Judiciary Information Tech- tion 610 other than the Supreme Court, to earlier to the Missouri versus Jenkins nology Fund: This amendment eliminates the certify payment requests payable from ap- case. provision in the statute authorizing the Ju- propriations and funds. Such certifying offi- Back in 1990, the Supreme Court ren- diciary Information Technology Fund, which cers shall be responsible and accountable dered a decision involving the State of subjects the activities of this Fund to the for— management process of the executive Missouri; and it held clearly that the ‘‘(A) the existence and correctness of the branch. Federal courts could not directly im- facts recited in the certificate or other re- Offsetting Receipts: This provision would pose a tax levy on State or local gov- quest for payment or its supporting papers; allow the judiciary to retain any additional ‘‘(B) the legality of the proposed payment ernments. As far as I can tell, every offsetting receipts derived from increases in under the appropriation or fund involved; member of the Committee on the Judi- miscellaneous fees charged in the federal and ciary, on a bipartisan basis, under- courts of appeals, district courts, bank- ‘‘(C) the correctness of the computations of stands and supports that concept. That ruptcy courts, the Court of Federal Claims, certified payment requests. and the Judicial Panel on Multi-district is a principle everyone embraced. ‘‘(2) The liability of a certifying officer Litigation. This provision responds to a di- This amendment which I have filed shall be enforced in the same manner and to with my colleague, the gentleman from the same extent as provided by law with re- rective from congressional appropriations New York (Mr. BOEHLERT), would sim- spect to the enforcement of the liability of committees that the Judiciary identify ways disbursing and other accountable officers. A to increase offsetting receipts. ply do just that. Let me repeat, the Membership in Circuit Judicial Councils: This certifying officer shall be required to make amendment would prohibit a court section amends 28 U.S.C. § 332(a) to enhance restitution to the United States for the from directly imposing a tax increase judge participation in the federal judiciary’s amount of any illegal, improper, or incorrect internal governance process by equalizing on State or local government, or any payment resulting from any false, inac- other political subdivision, for that curate, or misleading certificates made by the representation of circuit judges and dis- trict judges on circuit judicial councils and matter, as a remedy for an illegal or the certifying officer, as well as for any pay- wrongful action by that particular ment prohibited by law or which did not rep- establishing the eligibility of senior circuit resent a legal obligation under the appro- and district judges to serve as members of State or local government. priation or fund involved. those councils. This amendment, the Delahunt-Boeh- Sunset of Civil Justice Expense and Delay Re- ‘‘(c) RIGHTS.—A certifying or disbursing of- lert amendment, makes clear that the ficer— duction Plans: This provision would clarify levying of taxes is not an appropriate that section 103(b)(2)(A) of the Civil Justice ‘‘(1) has the right to apply for and obtain a judicial function. It leaves it to State decision by the Comptroller General on any Reform Act is not to be extended. Provisions of the Civil Justice Reform Act have lapsed. and local governments to decide how to question of law involved in a payment re- fund a judicial remedy to some illegal quest presented for certification; and An amendment to last year’s Appropriations ‘‘(2) is entitled to relief from liability aris- Act extended the reporting of old cases, but or wrongful action that they them- ing under this section in accordance with unintentionally also extended this section of selves are responsible for. title 31. the Act. This section was intended to sunset, It may involve spending cuts. It may ‘‘(d) OTHER AUTHORITY NOT AFFECTED.— but a technical change is needed to clarify involve borrowing. It may even involve Nothing in this section affects the authority that intent. This simply accomplishes that raising taxes. But it is the State or of the courts with respect to moneys depos- purpose. Creation of Certifying Officers in the Judicial local government’s decision, not the ited with the courts under chapter 129 of this court’s decision, how to fund that par- title.’’. Branch: This section would enable the Direc- (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of tor of the Administrative Office of the ticular remedy. That is what this sections for chapter 41 of title 28, United United States Courts to appoint certifying amendment is all about. In fact, when States Code, is amended by adding at the end officials in the various court units who I offered this amendment at the sub- the following item: would be responsible for the propriety of committee it was agreed to. ‘‘613. Disbursing and certifying officers.’’. payments they request. It would also enable I might add, there was considerable the Director of the AO to appoint disbursing (c) DUTIES OF DIRECTOR.—Paragraph (8) of discussion at that point in time. It was officials in the various court units who subsection (a) of section 604 of title 28, would be responsible for ensuring that pay- voted unanimously, on a voice vote. United States Code, is amended to read as ment requests are proper, certified and ap- However, the bill came out of the full follows: proved. committee dramatically changed, ‘‘(8) Disburse appropriations and other changed to the point that it is now funds for the maintenance and operation of Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. the courts;’’. Chairman, I rise in support of the considered unconstitutional by hun- Page 17, line 12, strike ‘‘appellate’’. amendment. dreds of legal scholars. Mr. COBLE (during the reading). Mr. Mr. Chairman, I agree with the gen- The Department of Justice also Chairman, I ask unanimous consent tleman from North Carolina (Mr. agrees, as it is presently drafted, it is that the amendment be considered as COBLE). of dubious constitutionality, and that read and printed in the RECORD. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on based on these and other concerns with The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection the amendment offered by the gen- the bill, the Attorney General will ab- to the request of the gentleman from tleman from North Carolina (Mr. solutely recommend a veto unless North Carolina? COBLE). amended. There was no objection. The amendment was agreed to. As presently written, a court could Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, this is a The CHAIRMAN. Are there other not even issue an order which would re- technical amendment that contains no amendments? quire a State or local government to H2258 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 impose a tax. That is absurd. It is the such a problem by applying section 5 to laws. If Congress does not like the end of an independent judiciary, be- orders which expressly direct a tax or laws, like the Clean Water Act, then we cause it is utterly meaningless for the which necessarily require a tax. And ought to rewrite them. But we will not courts to order a remedy without the for those reasons, Mr. Chairman, I op- do that because the laws have proven ability to compel the wrongdoer to im- pose the amendment. so successful and so immensely popu- plement that remedy. Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I lar. Just imagine how State and local move to strike the last word. If we think localities ought to get governments could flout court orders Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong sup- more Federal aid to comply with these by simply claiming they did not have port of the Delahunt-Boehlert amend- laws, let us provide the money. I am sufficient cash on hand to comply with ment. What is at stake here is nothing fighting with the administration right the remedy. It is no exaggeration to less than whether we are going to ex- now to increase the funding available say that a State or local government empt State and local governments for municipal sewage treatment plants. could very well avoid responsibility for from complying with a wide range of Those are all reasonable remedies. its malfeasance in the operation of a environmental and other laws. I do not Preventing enforcement of statutes sewage treatment plant that polluted think that Congress ought to be pro- that are on the books is not a reason- our constituents’ drinking water if this viding that sort of blanket exemption. able way to change the law. In fact, the amendment fails. That is one of the I want to emphasize again that the approach in this bill is to offset, offer reasons that every major environ- issue here is whether we believe that massive congressional overreaching to mental group in the country opposes States and localities ought to comply counteract an occasional and rare judi- the underlying bill. with the laws we pass. This is not cial overreaching. It is like hearing The bill as it now stands is worse about judicial activism or tax rates. that one of our kids has misbehaved at than the perceived abuses it was meant Our amendment blocks judicial activ- school and responding by never sending to cure. Speaking to that issue of per- ism by keeping intact all of the provi- any of our kids to school again. ceived abuses, let us be honest. Despite sions of section 5 that prevent judges Mr. Chairman, I urge support for the from imposing or raising taxes. Let me what we hear, there is no outbreak of Delahunt-Boehlert amendment. It will repeat that. Our amendment blocks ju- judicial taxation cases in this country prevent judges from raising taxes while dicial activism by keeping intact all of today. They simply do not exist. allowing the proper enforcement of le- the provisions of section 5 that prevent The truth is clear. It is very simple. gitimate laws to continue. judges from imposing or raising taxes. Mr. MANZULLO. Mr. Chairman, I The Federal courts have not directly Courts ought not to be levying taxes move to strike the requisite number of imposed a tax, except for the single and our amendment keeps them from words. school desegregation case, Missouri doing so. But the language we are re- Mr. Chairman, the Delahunt-Boehlert versus Jenkins, which I referenced ear- moving from the bill would do far more amendment would gut section 5. There lier and the gentleman from Illinois al- than prevent judges from overreaching. is a legal fiction as to whether or not luded to. That case was overturned in It would prevent judges from doing a court can order the increase of tax or 1995 by a unanimous Supreme Court their jobs. It would prevent judges a court can order a municipality to in- that rejected the concept of direct im- from taking actions that are required crease tax. position of taxes by a Federal court. by law. Our bill provides in both situations a Adoption of the Delahunt-Boehlert For example, let us say a municipal court will be prevented from directly amendment would accomplish the waste treatment plant upstream from or indirectly raising taxes. What the goals articulated by many of those who our town is discharging pollutants into amendment does, it prevents a court advocate judicial restraint. Let us ex- a river, closing beaches in our town. from directly raising taxes, but all the ercise some common sense and support We sue to get the sewage treatment courts have to do is to read Missouri the Delahunt-Boehlert amendment. plant to comply with the standards in versus Jenkins and instead of the court Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in the Clean Water Act. Under H.R. 1252, a directly raising the tax, it says ‘‘I am opposition to the amendment. judge could be unable to issue an order ordering you to raise the tax.’’ Mr. Chairman, my good friend, the requiring compliance with the Clean The Delahunt-Boehlert amendment gentleman from Massachusetts and I Water Act, because doing so might lead would allow a Federal judge, as the generally agree on this matter. I am the town to raise taxes. judge in Rockford, Illinois, has done, to not in agreement with him. I appre- Even worse, if we and the town point to a duly elected school board ciate his comments, but the amend- agreed to settle the case by the town and say, ‘‘Either you raise taxes or you ment was defeated in full committee agreeing voluntarily to fix the sewage are going to jail.’’ That is the purpose during markup. treatment plant, H.R. 1252 could forbid of section 5. I think, Mr. Chairman, this probably the judge from approving the voluntary If the amendment is adopted, the would gut the judicial taxation provi- settlement. Yet, if an industry were Delahunt-Boehlert amendment, it will sion of the bill. The amendment would discharging the same pollutants into not affect the situation. The judge can allow a Federal judge to, in my opin- the same river, a judge would be able still do the same thing. And it is legal ion, circumvent section 5 of the bill in to force the industry to comply. fiction which they are presenting be- the following manner. The provisions That is bad law. That is bad policy. fore this body today to allow them to constraining the ability of a judge to And, quite simply, it is unfair. have all of the congressional mandates order a State or municipality to im- Virtually every environmental group, come before the Federal courts and for pose taxes on affected citizens would as well as the Judicial Conference of the Federal courts to say, local munici- apply only if a judge expressly directed the United States, chaired by Chief palities to comply, either raise taxes or a tax. Justice Rehnquist, oppose section 5 be- go to jail. That is what this amend- cause of its perverse consequences such b 1200 ment is about. as the ones I have just outlined. And Mr. Chairman, I have letters here To avoid the restrictions set forth in environmental laws are not the only from people in Rockford, Illinois. Mr. section 5, a judge, it seems to me, could ones that could become dead letters DELAHUNT said he knew of no area in simply order a State or municipality to under this bill. The Americans with the country that is affected similarly construct a new school building, for ex- Disabilities Act, the Individuals with to Kansas City, Missouri. Well, the ample, according to particular speci- Disabilities Education Act, other civil same master in Kansas City, Missouri fications, without specifying how the rights statutes and worker protection is now the master in Rockford, Illinois. project would be funded. statutes would also be affected. Indeed, Listen to this letter from Adam The practical effect of this result, one judge has noted that even the Lamarre: however, would be to compel the State Brown v. Board of Education decision Dear Representative Manzullo, Thank you or the municipality or whatever politi- would have been difficult to enforce if for the support you gave limiting the powers cal subdivision to impose a tax if no H.R. 1252 had been in effect. of judges to impose taxes. My family is con- other revenues were available. And I Section 5 as written would simply sidering moving out of Rockford because we believe that the bill as written cures undermine the enforcement of our can no longer afford to pay high taxes. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2259 This is from Earl and Ann Young in been busing our school children), this ruling ment obtain such power, and what can be Rockford: was the result of a lawsuit because a small done to eliminate the power, and/or remove group of people didn’t like their school being Mahoney from office? Dear Mr. Manzullo, we are very affected by closed and it accelerated into a state of ‘‘ri- Mr. Nelson, the writer of the article, Magistrate Mahoney’s rulings. We are senior diculous’’ with an end result of lawyers fees, claims to be ‘‘a citizen not directly affected citizen property owners in Rockford School court fees, and consultant fees already cost- by the decision.’’ We, on the other hand, are District 205, living on a fixed income, who ing $100 million dollars taken from a Tort very affected by Mahoney’s rulings. We are are being taxed out of our home! Senior Citizen property owners in School To add insult to injury, we did not live in Fund which was the money to be used for the schools. This is not right! District 205, living on a fixed income, who Rockford when the alleged discrimination 1st—A judge taxes us without any rep- are being taxed out of our home! took place, have never had children in the Il- resentation (our forefathers started this To add insult to injury, we did not live in linois school system, but we are judged country because of that reason). Rockford when the alleged discrimination guilty because our House is in district 205. 2nd—$100 million dollars spent not for our took place, have never had children in the Il- We would like you to tell us how can this school children, or schools but for lawyers, linois school system, but we are judged one man,’’ the unelected magistrate respon- and consultants. That money would have guilty because our house is in district 205. sible to no one, ‘‘assume to have all this been better spent improving the education of We would like you to tell us how this one power, and what action you are pursuing in our children. man can assume to have all this power, and Washington. My husband and I have filed a joint tax what action YOU are pursuing in Washing- And a letter from Carol Angelico: protest with other people in town to no ton to restrict and/or eliminate such misuse I’m writing to you because of my saddened avail, and have spoken to our State Rep’s be- of assumed judicial power! frustration that no one can ‘fairly’ resolve fore only to hear a lot of rhetoric but no ac- Sincerely Yours, the unnecessary and overburdening taxation tion to back them up and change the laws re- EARL AND ANN YOUNG. problem in our City of Rockford. garding federal judges rulings with no regard TIME TO CLIP JUDICIAL WINGS Oh, yes, the City of Rockford, with to the negative effect financially on the community, nor allowing the majority of the Magistrate P. Michael Mahoney should be over 2,200 homes for sale in a city of people to have their voice heard and vote on given a Nobel Prize for coming up with a so- less than 150,000 people. The City of instead of just giving the minority a voice. I lution to our most vexing problem, how to Rockford, where the property values thought this country was a democracy in lower taxes. Since he has established that keep going down. The City of Rockford, which the majority vote was the law/rule, at elected legislative bodies must vote accord- where people are being taxed unmerci- least that’s what I was taught in history ing to the wishes of the judiciary, we can fully and senior citizens come to my of- classes in school. Have our governing bodies save enormous sums of money by eliminat- fice with tears in their eyes and say, forgotten that! A federal judge wielding such ing all such bodies and just let the judiciary run the country. Think of the savings: No ‘‘Congressman, we cannot afford to pay a ruling not only here but anywhere in the U.S. is wrong!!! We are paying so much in senators, no congressmen, no aldermen, no our taxes because the Federal mag- taxes already, not only Real Estate but county boards, and most importantly the istrate raised our taxes. You represent other areas of our now structured govern- elimination of the bureaucracies that sup- us. You should be the one responsible, ment. port these institutions. In fact we can take because if you raise taxes, I will re- So I’m asking you Congressman, to con- it one step further and eliminate the execu- move you from office.’’ tinue to take the initiative and act on the tive branch and let judges appoint masters. What we are doing today is historic, behalf of the hard working people who pay To those of you who support Magistrate all these taxes by doing without and tighten- Mahoney’s decision, would you support him perhaps the first time in the history of if he ordered the state legislature to raise this Republic in which Congress is try- ing the belt, but the belt is becoming so tight we are all strangling. We want our the state income tax 30 percent to pay for in- ing to reclaim the ground where only schools to produce educated people but creases in school funding or raises for we have the power in Federal situa- that’s not what our money is being used for. judges? tions to raise taxes, and to take it back It has not gone to the schools or for our chil- Would you support him if he ordered you from the courts and say that they do dren’s education. New schools do not edu- to vote for a specific candidate in the next not have the power to raise taxes. That cate; teachers, books, computers, etc. do!! election? Changes need to be made regarding this mat- To our elected representatives: It is up to was not given to them. you to assert your constitutional right to Hamilton expressly said, ‘‘You shall ter. Two incomes are already necessary today so we can give our families the neces- the separation of powers. not have it.’’ Madison said, ‘‘You shall The judiciary has been allowed to slowly sities of life because the taxation has gotten undermine the very constitution that they not have it.’’ And Jefferson said, when out of hand, literally, from our hands to gov- writing about King George III, said, are sworn to protect. ernment hands. Then we have the additional If this nation is to continue to exist as a ‘‘He has taxed us without representa- burden of our school districts court order. tion.’’ democratic republic, it is up to those legisla- People can’t keep their homes for their chil- tors elected by the people to reassert their This is what this Republic is about. dren who would be going to our school, not constitutional right to vote their conscience. Who is in control of raising taxes in to mention our elderly homeowners. My hus- I am aware that this is not the first time this Republic? Is it the unelected band and I are paying monthly real estate the judiciary has directed an action by elect- judges appointed for life, or is it Mem- payments almost equal to our mortgage pay- ed officials, but I am not aware of any other bers of the United States Congress who ment, this is really getting scary because we time that a member of the judiciary has de- were reassessed on our property again last have to stand for reelection every 2 termined how to fund said action. As a citi- year and our tax bill will be higher again for zen not directly affected by the decision, I years? 1996. Delahunt-Boehlert guts section 5. It besiege our state and federal legislators to Please express to your fellow congressmen clip the wings of the judiciary before they makes it meaningless, and I would urge and congresswomen that it’s their respon- make voters totally irrelevant. my colleagues, especially those who sibility, which was given to them by us the I realize that this particular case involves voted yesterday that said this body can the voter, that they are in the political of- a lowly little school board, but remember, only raise taxes by having two-thirds fice they now hold, to work for and with the this is an elected legislative body being or- of the vote, to say only this body can majority of us not against us. That’s how dered to vote a specific way by a lowly fed- they won their office, by the majority not raise taxes and not the judiciary, and eral magistrate acting on behalf of one semi- the minority. I hear to many people say why retired judge.—Roger T. Nelson, Loves Park to vote against Delahunt-Boehlert. write to express your dissatisfaction, noth- Mr. Chairman, I include the following ing gets done about, only the minority get ROCKFORD, IL, for the RECORD: catered to and politicians are only self-inter- July 3, 1997. APRIL 12, 1997. ested in matter to better themselves and not DEAR REP MANZULLO: Thank you for the Congressman DON MANZULLO, the general public—PROVE THEM WRONG!!! support you gave limiting judge’s ability to Cannon House Office Bldg., Washington, DC. Respectfully, impose taxes. My family is considering mov- CONGRESSMAN MANZULLO: I’m writing to CAROL A. ANGELICO. ing out of Rockford because we can no longer you because of my saddened frustration that afford to pay the big property taxes. no one can ‘‘Fairly’’ resolve the unnecessary DECEMBER 26, 1997. Sincerely, and over-burdening taxation problem in our Representative DONALD MANZULLO, ADAM LAMARRE. city of Rockford. Broadway, Suite 1, Rockford, IL. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I move I’ll clarify my above statement by getting DEAR MR. MANZULLO: The enclosed article to the point as briefly as I can. A federal is from the December 26, 1997 issue of the to strike the requisite number of judge ‘‘Mahoney’’ ordered real estate tax in- Rockford Register Star. It reflects a major words. creases to pay for three (3) new schools (we concern of ours. How does an appointed offi- Mr. Chairman, I would ask the gen- have closed schools in some areas and have cial of the Judiciary Branch of our Govern- tleman from Illinois (Mr. MANZULLO) H2260 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 whether he has ever heard of the Su- tax except for a single school desegre- Boehlert, therefore, if they are saying preme Court case, Missouri v. Jenkins. gation case, Missouri v. Jenkins. And it would codify Missouri versus Jen- Mr. MANZULLO. Yes, I quoted from even this isolated case was overturned kins, would therefore be, quote, ‘‘an ex- that. by the Supreme Court in 1995 when the pansion of power in the Federal judici- Mr. CONYERS. Well, did the gen- Justices unanimously rejected the con- ary beyond all precedent.’’ tleman not read in there that the cept of a direct Federal court imposi- It is just that simple. A vote on that courts cannot impose taxes? tion of taxes. Now, is that clear or is it amendment would gut section 5. It Mr. MANZULLO. It is very sim- not? would still allow judicial taxation to ple—— Mr. Chairman, I did not ask the gen- take place. And for my friend from Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I just tleman anything. I just wanted to get Massachusetts, I would say, if he would asked the gentleman a question. his attention to read simple English to make reference to the Declaration of Mr. MANZULLO. If I am given the him of what the Supreme Court said. Independence, that is where Mr. Jeffer- opportunity to respond—— son says and accuses King George III of b 1215 Mr. CONYERS. Yes or no? taxing the people without representa- Mr. MANZULLO. What is the ques- The gentleman may get his own tion. I like to quote from Jefferson. He tion again? time. is the most credible. Mr. CONYERS. Forget it. Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, will Mr. CAMPBELL. Reclaiming my Mr. MANZULLO. No, I do not want the gentleman yield? time, Mr. Chairman, Missouri versus to forget it. I want to make this clear. Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- Jenkins, I believe, is correctly de- Mr. CONYERS. Well, I want to forget tleman from Massachusetts. scribed both by my friend from Illinois it on my time. Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I and my friend from Massachusetts. Ac- The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman think what is most interesting is that cordingly, at least as I read it, if the from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) controls upon a careful and thorough analysis of Boehlert-Delahunt amendment passes, the time. the language that presently exists in the bill will have no effect beyond Mis- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, before title V, that there has been a conclu- souri versus Jenkins, and Missouri ver- we vote, the Supreme Court said, in the sion by many legal scholars that that sus Jenkins does say that a court may case that the gentleman read so clear- language is patently unconstitutional not directly impose a tax. So both gen- ly, and the question when he could not as a result of the decision in Missouri tlemen are right, Mr. Chairman, which remember what I asked, said that the v. Jenkins. It is also clear that the De- is to say that if this amendment court cannot impose taxes. Repeat. The partment of Justice will recommend a passed, the purpose of this bill will be court cannot impose taxes. They can veto of this bill if it should pass, if this defeated. enforce an order for taxes. That is the language is not deleted and the Boeh- I would like that result—if the bill’s case. lert-Delahunt amendment does not managers has not agreed to my amend- So I urge the gentleman to read it pass. ment. The problem is, my amendment again. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, re- comes up next, it is not up now. So I Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, will claiming my time, I am going to read would like to take a moment and ex- the gentleman yield? this one more time. I am going to read plain what my amendment would do Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gen- it slowly. because I think it takes the most dan- tleman from Massachusetts. The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gerous part of this bill away. The most dangerous part of this bill Mr. DELAHUNT. Mr. Chairman, I gentleman from Michigan (Mr. CON- to me is section F of section 5. The would just reiterate what the gen- YERS) has expired. whole idea of this bill is to make it tleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS) (By unanimous consent, Mr. CONYERS hard for courts to impose taxes; fine. said in terms of the holding in the Mis- was allowed to proceed for 1 additional Since Missouri versus Jenkins says a souri v. Jenkins case, and the gen- minute.) court cannot directly impose a tax, Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I am tleman from Illinois indicated that he this bill says let us also make it hard going to read this one more time. was quoting from Missouri v. Jenkins. for courts effectively to impose a tax Outside the context of a few 19th cen- He quoted earlier from Thomas Jeffer- by leaving no other options. Okay, fine, tury municipal bond cases, the Federal son, or at least he credited Thomas Jef- let us make it hard. ferson the quote that taxation without courts have not directly imposed a tax But—do not make it impossible. representation is tyranny. except for a single school desegrega- Where the Constitution requires it; it Mr. Chairman, I would correct the tion case, Missouri v. Jenkins. And should be done. Accordingly, what I gentleman, because I come from that even this isolated case was overturned would like to do is to go through the part of the country where the gen- by the Supreme Court in 1995, when the provisions that are left in the bill, be- tleman was born and raised who had Justices unanimously rejected the con- cause if my amendment is taken, which made that quote. His name is James cept of direct Federal court imposition strikes F, then the remaining restric- Otis and he lived on Cape Cod. of taxes. tions, I think, are very reasonable; Mr. Chairman, I do not know whether End of sentence. namely, that a court cannot effectively the gentleman misquoted or misread Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Chairman, I impose a tax unless it is constitutional the Missouri v. Jenkins decision, but it move to strike the requisite number of to do so, it is narrowly imposed, it will clearly stated that Federal courts words, and I yield to the gentleman help as opposed to make worse the could not impose a tax levy on a State from Illinois (Mr. MANZULLO). problem being addressed by the court or local government. In the Federal Mr. MANZULLO. Mr. Chairman, the suit in the first place, there is no ade- district court which had earlier issued Missouri versus Jenkins case is very quate alternative remedy under the an order that did impose a tax levy in simple. Five justices against four jus- State and local government, and the that tax case, it was overturned by a tices ruled that a court can indirectly interests of the State are not unconsti- unanimous decision of the Supreme raise taxes by applying this legal fic- tutionally usurped. That is the exact Court. tion. The difference is between the phrase used. The Boehlert-Delahunt amendment judge saying from the bench, I raise Accordingly, if you get rid of F, there simply codifies the Missouri case. It your taxes, and the judge saying, I is nothing, at least in my mind, that is prohibits a court from directly impos- order you to raise your taxes. difficult in this proposal (or, surely, ing a tax increase on State and local The Delahunt-Boehlert amendment that is unconstitutional) in this pro- government or any other. would still allow a judge to say, I order posal. What was F? ‘‘F’’ was that the Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, re- you to raise your taxes. In fact, the court would have to be assured that claiming my time, let us all go to law majority decision was so feeble that the proposed tax would not result in a school. All right? The Supreme Court four justices in the minority said that depreciation of property values. That is case. Outside the context of a few 19th the majority opinion ‘‘is an expansion an impossible standard, because any century municipal bond cases, the Fed- of power in the Federal judiciary be- property tax is going to result in a de- eral courts have not directly imposed a yond all precedent,’’ and Delahunt- preciation of property values. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2261 Suppose, for example, a school deseg- Bay, over the last year or so, we have The courts are not going to impose a regation order said a school district been having a problem with a micro- tax, but the courts are going to say to had to allow in blacks. The school dis- organism called pfiesteria. It is sci- a given community, for example, you trict’s revenues come from property entific conclusion that pfiesteria is have to stop polluting. And the com- tax. Say the school district now must stimulated in part by extra nitrogen munity is going to decide how it has to allow in 20 to 30 percent more children; and phosphorous going into the water- stop polluting. I thank the gentleman the taxes then have to go up to pay for ways. The courts and the community, for the example. them. There go the property values. the public sector can impose fines and The gutting would occur, the gutting My good friends on this side of the cause farmers to have to pay for the would occur, I would suggest, if we aisle are willing to drop section F, and improvement of their practices to re- failed to amend section 5. I only hope that my amendment had duce phosphorous and nitrogen getting Mr. YOUNG of Alaska. Mr. Chair- come up first. It has not, but under the into the water. man, I move to strike the requisite assurance that it will, I would simply If the gentleman from Illinois does number of words, and I yield to the wish to point out that the unconstitu- not, if the gentleman from New York gentleman from Illinois (Mr. MAN- tional aspects of this provision are now does not have his amendment passed, ZULLO). gone. the farmer would have to pay to clean Mr. MANZULLO. Mr. Chairman, the With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield to up his act, but the local sewage treat- proponents of the Delahunt-Boehlert the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. ment plant, which has also caused amendment are trying to draw a fine CONYERS). phosphorous and nitrogen into the wa- line between a direct tax and an indi- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I terway, which is called Pokomoke, rect tax. The effect is the same. The thank the gentleman from California would not. elected representatives still have to for yielding to me. I hope he teaches a So the farmer would go to all these raise taxes and is it not interesting, law school course for Members of Con- expenses and the local sewage treat- they say, well, this will protect, this gress in the evenings with or without ment plant and everybody has a little will stop courts from raising taxes. In credit because I completely agree with problem with money, even people have Rockford, Illinois, the judge, the him. problems with whether or not there unelected magistrate has ordered the PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY really is a problem. And sometimes school board to either raise taxes or go Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Chairman, I there are problems with competency, to jail. have a parliamentary inquiry. and the court is there to say yes, you The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will b 1230 also have to clean up your act. state it. I will give you an example in Balti- There is no difference between that Mr. CAMPBELL. Is it in order, Mr. more City. The sewage treatment plant and the judge saying, ‘‘I am going to Chairman, to ask unanimous consent right now is under order from the EPA order raising of taxes on my own.’’ The to consider my amendment ahead of to clean up their act. The EPA is going original language of section 5 allows this or to consider it at this time? Is to fine, with the help of the courts, both scenarios. there a procedural provision allowing However, the Delahunt-Boehlert that or not? Baltimore not to put more nitrogen and phosphorous into the water. amendment removes the second sce- The CHAIRMAN. In response to the nario and not only says that the judge gentleman’s query of the Chair, the The local ARCO plant, the local CON- OCO plant, they have to clean up. They cannot directly raise taxes but it still pending amendment would have to be allows the judge to indirectly raise first withdrawn by unanimous consent have to pay. The private sector has to taxes. And as to all the environmental of the Committee of the Whole. pay. The farmer has to pay. But unless issues and everything else, what our Mr. CAMPBELL. Then I cannot pro- this amendment passes, the city of Bal- ceed as I would have liked to. I thank timore does not have to do anything. bill says simply is this, to live within the Chair. They can continue to put the phos- our means, to allow remedial plans to Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Chairman, I phorous and the nitrogen in the water come about. move to strike the requisite number of that is causing to a great extent this Maryland already has a State law words. microorganism that is decimating the with regard to cleaning up the environ- I rise to support the Boehlert- fish population of the Chesapeake Bay. ment, to cleaning up the waters. All Delahunt amendment. I would like to The Boehlert amendment does not these scare tactics that this will gut say very clearly first that the gen- give the court system any iota of more environmental laws, this will gut ADA tleman from Illinois has a good argu- power to raise taxes, but unless the laws, that is not the case. We are sim- ment in that we are taxed very heavily Boehlert amendment passes, your local ply saying that local communities and now, so I want to commend him on his farmer is going to be more responsible elected representatives should not be effort to streamline the whole complex for cleaning up the waterways than the ordered to go to jail unless they raise tax system. It is just that I fear that public facilities. I am sure Jefferson taxes. Because the only constitutional his method, which we agree with basi- and Hamilton wanted us to drink clean function for the Federal raising of tax cally, would go a little bit too far and water, and I think this amendment is is the United States Congress and not have consequences that the gentleman perfectly balanced. the Federal judiciary. And that is why from Massachusetts does not foresee. Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- it is absolutely important, it is compel- This bill and this amendment would tleman from New York (Mr. BOEH- ling that to make this law have any not give the courts any extra power to LERT). teeth, we must defeat Delahunt-Boeh- raise taxes. It does not change any- Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, I lert. thing in my understanding in that area thank the gentleman from Maryland Mr. YOUNG of Alaska. Mr. Chair- at all. for yielding to me. The examples he man, I would say just one thing. I was The gentleman from Illinois quoted cited are perfect and the illustration he not going to get involved in this argu- Jefferson. He quoted Madison and he presented is right on target. ment. But the concept that a judge can quoted Hamilton. Jefferson and Hamil- Courts cannot impose taxes. But raise taxes on the public without due ton certainly did not want taxation courts are charged with the respon- representation is inappropriate. without representation. This amend- sibility of dealing with the laws we, the Secondly, when we hear these scare ment does not tax people without rep- House of Representatives, and the Sen- tactics about clean water and clean air resentation. People continue to have ate, and the Congress of the United and all these good things in this bill, representation. Jefferson, Hamilton, States, pass. And when we are dealing that is pure nonsense. States have the Madison would want people to have with sensitive issues like clean water, authority to do this to begin with. The clean water, and they would want the which we all depend on, and which the States have the right to do it, and they collective community to be responsible American people want us to protect, we should do it. for clean water. have to make certain that the laws we I am going to suggest, I have seen Let me give my colleagues an exam- pass are dealt with in a responsible small communities that EPA and other ple. In my district, the Chesapeake manner by the courts. agencies have required to do certain H2262 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 things and they have gone broke. They Porter Saxton Tierney b 1255 have lost their schools, they lost other Poshard Schumer Torres Price (NC) Scott Towns Messrs. CONDIT, DICKEY, KIM, SAM facilities in the infrastructure because Pryce (OH) Serrano Upton JOHNSON of Texas, and MCKEON of the agency saying they had to raise Quinn Shays Velazquez changed their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ certain amounts of money to put in Rahall Sherman Vento Visclosky Messrs. COYNE, GUTKNECHT, and certain standards in that area. Ramstad Skaggs Rangel Skelton Walsh EWING changed their vote from ‘‘no’’ Waters I am suggesting, respectfully, that Regula Slaughter to ‘‘aye.’’ Watt (NC) this amendment is a mischievous Reyes Smith (NJ) So the amendment was agreed to. Waxman Smith, Adam amendment that will give back the au- Rivers Weller The result of the vote was announced thority for judges. And I do not par- Rodriguez Snyder Wexler as above recorded. ticularly like judges to begin with. I Roemer Spratt Weygand Mr. MANZULLO. Mr. Chairman, I Rothman Stabenow want to tell my colleagues right now, White ask unanimous consent to strike sec- Roukema Stark Whitfield especially those that are appointed and Roybal-Allard Stokes Wise tion 5 of the pending bill. have a life expectancy. I think it is Rush Strickland Woolsey The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection also time to let them recognize that Sabo Stupak Wynn to the request of the gentleman from the people should be represented in this Sanchez Sununu Yates Illinois? Sanders Tauscher Congress. Sandlin Thompson Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Sawyer Thurman Chairman, reserving the right to ob- the amendment offered by the gen- ject, not having been consulted on tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. NOES—181 something of this importance, we are DELAHUNT). Aderholt Gibbons Paul constrained to object, and so I do now The question was taken; and the Archer Gillmor Pease object. Armey Goode Peterson (MN) The CHAIRMAN. Objection is heard. Chairman announced that the ayes ap- Bachus Goodlatte Peterson (PA) peared to have it. Baker Goodling Pickering AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. CAMPBELL Pickett RECORDED VOTE Ballenger Goss Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Chairman, I Barrett (NE) Graham Pitts offer an amendment. Mr. COBLE. Mr. Chairman, I demand Bartlett Granger Pombo Portman The Clerk read as follows: a recorded vote. Barton Hall (TX) Redmond Bereuter Hansen Amendment offered by Mr. CAMPBELL: A recorded vote was ordered. Riggs Bilirakis Hastert Page 9, line 5, and ‘‘and’’ after the semi- The vote was taken by electronic de- Riley colon. Bliley Hastings (WA) Rogan vice, and there were—ayes 230, noes 181, Blunt Hayworth Page 9, line 9, strike ‘‘; and’’ and insert a not voting 21, as follows: Rogers Boehner Hefley Rohrabacher period. [Roll No. 103] Bonilla Herger Ros-Lehtinen Page 9, strike lines 10 through 12. Bono Hill Page 9, line 2, insert after ‘‘remedied’’ the AYES—230 Royce Brady Hilleary Ryun following: ‘‘, including through its effect on Abercrombie Farr LaHood Bryant Hilliard Salmon property values or otherwise’’. Ackerman Fattah Lampson Burton Hoekstra Sanford Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Chairman, the Allen Fawell Lantos Buyer Hostettler Scarborough Andrews Fazio LaTourette Callahan Hulshof Schaefer, Dan passage of the Boehlert-Delahunt Baesler Filner Lazio Calvert Hunter Schaffer, Bob amendment makes this amendment Baldacci Forbes Leach Campbell Hutchinson Sensenbrenner Barcia Ford Lee less important. But I believe it is still Canady Hyde Sessions Barrett (WI) Fox Levin an improvement in the bill. Cannon Inglis Shadegg Bass Frank (MA) Lewis (GA) Chabot Jenkins Shaw I am authorized to say that this Bentsen Franks (NJ) Lipinski Shimkus Chambliss Johnson, Sam amendment is agreeable to the major- Berman Frost LoBiondo Shuster Chenoweth Jones Berry Furse Lofgren Sisisky ity, agreeable to the chairman of the Bilbray Ganske Lowey Christensen Kasich Skeen committee, and agreeable to the au- Bishop Gejdenson Luther Coble Kim Smith (MI) thor of this provision of the bill. Blagojevich Gephardt Maloney (CT) Coburn King (NY) Smith (OR) So in the interest of time, I would be Blumenauer Gilchrest Maloney (NY) Collins Kingston Smith (TX) Boehlert Gilman Manton Combest Knollenberg Smith, Linda prepared to yield back, unless this is Bonior Gordon Markey Condit Kolbe Snowbarger controversial, in which case I will take Borski Green Martinez Cox Largent Solomon additional time to explain it. But I Boswell Greenwood Mascara Cramer Latham Souder have already tried my best to explain Boucher Gutierrez McCarthy (MO) Crane Lewis (CA) Spence Brown (CA) Gutknecht McCarthy (NY) Crapo Lewis (KY) Stearns it to both sides, and I believe it is not Brown (FL) Hall (OH) McDade Cubin Linder Stenholm controversial. So in the interest of Brown (OH) Hamilton McDermott Cunningham Livingston Stump time, I would yield back. Burr Harman McGovern Danner Lucas Talent Camp Hefner McHale Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. Davis (VA) Manzullo Tauzin Capps Hinchey McIntyre Chairman, I move to strike the last Deal McCollum Taylor (MS) Cardin Hinojosa McKinney Taylor (NC) DeLay McCrery word. Carson Hobson McNulty Thomas Diaz-Balart McHugh Mr. Chairman, I think it is a very Castle Holden Meehan Thornberry Dickey McInnis Clayton Hooley Meek (FL) Thune good idea. I have nothing absolutely to Clement Horn Meeks (NY) Doolittle McIntosh Tiahrt add to this debate. Clyburn Houghton Menendez Dreier McKeon Traficant The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other Duncan Metcalf Conyers Hoyer Millender- Turner Members seeking recognition on the Costello Jackson (IL) McDonald Dunn Mica Wamp Coyne Jackson-Lee Minge Ehrlich Miller (FL) Watts (OK) amendment by the gentleman from Cummings (TX) Mink Emerson Moran (KS) Weldon (FL) California (Mr. CAMPBELL)? Davis (FL) Jefferson Moakley English Myrick Wicker If not, the question is on the amend- Davis (IL) John Mollohan Ensign Nethercutt Wolf DeFazio Johnson (CT) Moran (VA) Everett Neumann Young (AK) ment offered by the gentleman from DeGette Johnson (WI) Morella Foley Northup Young (FL) California (Mr. CAMPBELL). Delahunt Johnson, E. B. Murtha Fossella Norwood The amendment was agreed to. DeLauro Kanjorski Nadler Fowler Nussle AMENDMENT NO. 5 OFFERED BY MR. ROGAN Deutsch Kaptur Neal Frelinghuysen Oxley Dicks Kelly Ney Gallegly Packard Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, I offer an Dingell Kennedy (MA) Oberstar Gekas Parker amendment. Doggett Kennedy (RI) Obey The CHAIRMAN. The Clerk will des- Dooley Kennelly Ortiz NOT VOTING—21 Doyle Kildee Owens ignate the amendment. Edwards Kilpatrick Pallone Barr Cooksey Olver The text of the amendment is as fol- Ehlers Kind (WI) Pappas Bateman Dixon Paxon lows: Engel Kleczka Pascrell Becerra Gonzalez Petri Eshoo Klink Pastor Boyd Hastings (FL) Radanovich Amendment No. 5 offered by Mr. ROGAN: Etheridge Klug Payne Bunning Istook Tanner Strike section 6 and redesignate succeed- Evans Kucinich Pelosi Clay Matsui Watkins ing sections, and references thereto, accord- Ewing LaFalce Pomeroy Cook Miller (CA) Weldon (PA) ingly. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2263 Mr. ROGAN. Mr. Chairman, this I introduced, which followed in a tradi- case. I would be honored to work with amendment would involve deleting sec- tion that was started by Representa- my colleague in this particular area to tion 6 from the bill that is before us. tive Drinan many Congresses ago when fashion a more appropriate remedy. Section 6 as proposed would allow par- he introduced a bill to allow for pre- So I want to thank the gentleman for ties as a matter of right in a civil case emptory challenges of judges in crimi- his comments and for all the work he to peremptorily challenge a judge, nal cases. has done on this bill. without any showing of cause, for bias It is my belief that we should have a Mr. CANADY of Florida. Madam or prejudice. Under current law, a provision that covers criminal cases, Chairman, I thank the gentleman for judge may be challenged for cause or civil cases in districts throughout the his comments, and I would extend the for bias, but there must be an actual country. What is in the bill now, as a same offer to work together to the showing. result of the work of the Committee on Democratic members of the Committee on the Judiciary who have opposed the b 1300 the Judiciary which I respect, is a ver- sion that only covers civil cases, it cov- provisions of the bill but who I also be- My concern, Mr. Chairman, with re- ers certain districts in the country, lieve are concerned about helping en- spect to the proposal that is set forth, and I am not very enthusiastic about sure that all litigants are treated fairly is that it would do a couple of things. this version of the bill. in cases that are brought in the Fed- First, it would increase the likelihood What I would ask the gentleman eral courts. that attorneys will use the new proce- from California to do is to consider the Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. dure for ‘‘forum shopping’’; secondly, it problems with the current system and Madam Chairman, I move to strike the would allow lawyers to put judges in to work with those of us on the Com- requisite number of words. the position where retail justice is mittee on the Judiciary who are con- Madam Chairman, I want to, as did being served. cerned about those problems for a real- the gentleman from California, express Mr. Chairman, in California, my istic way of helping ensure that liti- my appreciation for the spirit of co- home State, we have a similar provi- gants can have confidence that they operation that the gentleman from sion already on the books that is being are going to be treated fairly and not Florida, to say yes. I think this is proposed by this current legislation be trapped in the courtroom of a judge something we could work on in a coop- under section 6. Unfortunately it is who has a bias or who otherwise is not erative way. I would just like to ex- often used for all the wrong reasons. going to treat the particular litigant press my appreciation to the gen- We have a number of examples in Cali- fairly. I think that is important to ev- tleman from California, the gentleman fornia where judges have been chal- eryone. from South Carolina, who joined in lenged not because of their ability to In the past the American Bar Asso- this bipartisan effort, and I think it is be fair or to hear a case; they are chal- ciation has supported efforts along very likely in the spirit that is devel- lenged because of their race, sex, age, these lines of preemptory challenge. oping here we will be able to address political affiliation, or some other fac- Preemptory challenge may not be the these issues. So I welcome this support, tor unrelated to their ability to sit in right way to do it, but I am convinced I thank my colleagues for the coopera- judgment. that the current system is fundamen- tion, and I shut up. Mr. Chairman, in California when I tally flawed. At least the way it oper- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mrs. was a judge, I was present at judicial ates is flawed in many cases, and we EMERSON). The question is on the conferences where judges sat around need to do something to address that. amendment offered by the gentleman and polled each other as to what the Having explained that background, I from California (Mr. ROGAN). ‘‘going rate’’ was for sentencing in a will not oppose the gentleman’s amend- The amendment was agreed to. particular case. Judges knew that if ment, but I will hope that the gen- AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MS. JACKSON-LEE OF they deviated from the going rate, then tleman, the gentleman from California TEXAS Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. attorneys who had the ability to come (Mr. ROGAN), will be willing to work into court and file a blanket affidavit with us in coming up with ways of ad- Chairman, I offer an amendment. The Clerk read as follows: of prejudice against them would do so, dressing the real problems that do thereby precluding them from hearing exist because what we are looking for Amendment offered by Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas: either a case, or a class of cases. is a system that will protect all liti- Add the following at the end of the bill: I think that we ought to retain the gants, a system that will allow every- SEC. 12. PROTECTIVE ORDERS AND SEALING OF current system where judges may be one going into court to believe that CASES AND SETTLEMENTS RELAT- challenged in cases of actual bias or they are going to get a fair shake, not ING TO PUBLIC HEALTH OR SAFETY. prejudice. Although I respect the fact that they are going to get any advan- (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 111 of title 28, that my dear friend, our former col- tage but that they will not be treated United States Code, is amended by adding at league from California, Dan Lungren, unfairly. the end thereof the following new section: is in support of the bill in an And that is my objection, and I be- ‘‘§ 1660. Protective orders and sealing of cases unamended fashion, I rise because I op- lieve that that is the objective of the and settlements relating to public health or pose this one particular provision. gentleman from California and all the safety Mr. CANADY of Florida. Madam others who have been engaged on this ‘‘(a) FINDINGS OF FACT REGARDING PUBLIC Chairman, I move to strike the last HEALTH AND SAFETY.—No order entered in issue. accordance with the provisions of rule 26(c) word. Mr. ROGAN. Madam Chairman, will of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure shall Madam Chairman, I am not going to the gentleman yield? continue in effect after the entry of final oppose the gentleman’s amendment al- Mr. CANADY of Florida. I yield to judgment in that case, unless at or after though I believe that there is a prob- the gentleman from California. such entry the court makes a separate find- lem with the current system that needs Mr. ROGAN. Madam Chairman, first ing of fact that such order would not prevent to be rectified. Under the current sys- I want to thank my distinguished col- the disclosure of information which would tem in many cases I believe that liti- league, the subcommittee chairman, adversely affect public health or safety. ‘‘(b) RESTRICTION ON AGREEMENTS AMONG gants who have a reasonable basis for for his comments. And I think that the PARTIES.—(1) No agreement between or believing that they are not going to be chairman has hit the nail on the head: among parties in a civil action filed in a treated fairly by a particular judge do there are some procedural defects in court of the United States may prohibit or not really have any realistic recourse what is currently on the books. otherwise restrict a party from disclosing to have the case moved to be consid- I agree that the procedure that was any information relevant to such civil action ered by another judge. I do not think being proposed, a blanket preemptory to any Federal or State agency with author- the current system is working. challenge, is not the best way to deal ity to enforce laws regulating an activity re- I am not going to oppose this amend- with this. I would be the first to con- lating to such information, unless the court ment at this time because the version cede that there are problems with the makes a separate finding of fact that such agreement would not adversely affect public of preemptory challenge to judges that current system. These problems are as health or safety. is contained in the bill is a much trun- diverse as the personalities of those ‘‘(2) Any disclosure of information de- cated version of my original bill which judges who might be inclined to hear a scribed in paragraph (1) to a Federal or State H2264 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 agency shall be confidential to the extent we have a situation where we have an Madam Chairman, the tenor here on provided by law.’’. oversight over the overall point of per- the floor has gone from discord to har- (b) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMEND- spective of settlement secrecy. mony. I am not going to bring it back MENTS.—The table of sections for chapter 111 Let me add one other case. There was of title 28, United States Code, is amended by to discord, but I want to at least go on adding at the end the following: a case in the Third Circuit where the record as resisting the amendment of ‘‘1660. Protective orders and sealing of cases manufacturer of a drug that caused in- the gentlewoman from Texas. and settlements relating to ternal bleeding, they secured a secrecy The amendment was defeated during public health or safety.’’. order barring the injured consumer’s the committee markup of the bill. It is (c) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments attorney from disclosing this informa- opposed by persons interested in pri- made by this section shall take effect 30 days tion to a government agency. vacy issues; as well as the business after the date of the enactment of this Act I am saying to all of my colleagues, community, including the National As- and shall apply only to orders entered in this impacts our quality of life. In 1984 sociation of Manufacturers, NFIB; the civil actions or agreements entered into on studies indicating the hazards of sili- Chamber of Commerce, and others. or after such date. con breast implants were being uncov- The amendment, it seems to me, Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam ered. However, because of a protective would limit the ability of parties to ne- Chairman, I appreciate very much the order, this critical information was gotiate private settlements and the au- detailing of my amendment because I hidden from public view and from the thorities of a court to seal sensitive in- think if we listen acutely and care- FDA until 1992, more than 7 years and formation after a final judgment has fully, we will find that my amendment literally tens of thousands of victims been reached unless a court makes a does represent judicial reform, and the later. Secrecy in our State and Federal separate finding of fact that not reveal- reason is that I am not seeking to take courts undermines the right to know of ing the information would not ad- away the discretion of the judiciary or every American citizen. versely affect public health or safety. the judge. I am simply saying that I Let me now intervene and say it is Recent studies, the Harvard Federal think in support of the right to know not open season on secrecy. This par- Judicial Center, the Judicial Con- of the American people, even if one ticular amendment, if we are truly con- ference, they strongly suggest that would argue that we have not deter- cerned about judicial reform, simply protective orders issued under rule mined that secrecy prevails and that requires the judge to make a ruling 26(c) are not causing health or safety judges may assess in their own deter- that, yes, this does not impact the pub- problems. In fact, the Civil Rules Advi- mination at some time and can be cited lic health and safety. sory Committee of the Judicial Con- sometime that they had determined Madam Chairman, I cannot imagine ference met in March, last month, and that in a settlement they would, in that Americans would not be so con- determined that no changes to rule fact, allow the facts to be detailed. cerned as to not ensure that we have 26(c) were needed. We have found that most often se- the open access to information that Since many protective orders, and crecy, once it is requested, remains. would impact their life and safety. maybe most, are issued in employment That creates a dangerous and hazard- discrimination and civil rights cases, b 1315 ous set of circumstances for American the amendment would compromise the consumers, American business persons, Secrecy keeps vital health and safety privacy rights of individuals, it seems and generally it interferes with the information from consumers. They to me. For example, a sealed order re- fairness of having knowledge about have a right to know. The confidential garding medical records of an AIDS pa- anything that can impact negatively settlements of early litigation involv- tient, for example. The amendment on the community. ing the artificial valves kept life- would also jeopardize the proprietary I want to focus in particular on the threatening defects secret, even as rights of businesses, trade secrets, and language of this amendment. It indi- more valves were being implanted. other confidential information, which cates that a judge is required to make Hundreds of patients have died as a re- a competitor might want to gain access an assessment of whether or not se- sult of our failure. to such information. crecy must be maintained. That means In other cases, doctors have avoided The courts already have rather wide that it allows the judge to go in specifi- disciplinary charges because court discretion not to issue protective or- cally and assess the facts and decidedly files, which would document negligent ders or to modify or rescind them. Dis- make a determination: Yes, this must care, have been sealed. Secrecy creates covery and the discovery process are remain secret; no, it must not. In that more litigation. If you do not have the designed to encourage parties to share ruling we would hope that the judge right to have this information ac- information with each other and to set- would take into consideration the ter- knowledged, then others are injured. tle, if possible. The amendment, it rible devastation or the blight that What does that generate? More liti- seems to me, interferes with this proc- would come about by way of not allow- gation. If we are talking about bring- ess and may well impose a greater ing this information to come out. ing down the cost of what we perceive strain on limited judicial resources. Let me share with my colleagues an to be a litigious society, I happen to Madam Chairman, I urge my col- example that bears on health and safe- think everyone has a right to access leagues to vote against the amend- ty. A case in the United States Court the court of justice. But if for matter ment. of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit in- of argument we talk about increased Mr. CONYERS. Madam Chairman, I volved litigation of a manufacturer of litigation, secrecy helps to increase move to strike the last word. an artificial heart valve. This manufac- litigation, no matter what the cause. Madam Chairman, my dear friend, turer of heart valves was allowed to Business, personal injury, whatever we the gentleman from North Carolina, keep secret through a court order life speak of, if we do not have knowledge Mr. COBLE, pointed out this amend- threatening defects, even as more of and information, we increase litiga- ment was defeated in subcommittee. these valves were implanted in pa- tion. Well, that is probably an indication it tients. None of us want to tolerate that I would simply say as the American is a pretty good amendment. But it is sense of a lack of responsibility. We re- courts operate under the presumption important that we know that. alize there was a settlement, but in of openness, my amendment enhances The next thing I should point out to this instance if we take the scales of that openness. It allows those who feel everybody is that this amendment does justice, the weight of the public right that there is an element of secrecy not apply to civil rights cases. This to know is a more important right and that devastates the public safety the amendment prohibits orders preserving responsibility than the secrecy of liti- opportunity for the judge to rule that, the secrecy of documents that would gation. in fact, this information must be pre- adversely affect public health or safe- I would argue I do think that if we sented to the American public and pro- ty. So, we are all in agreement so far. weigh the scales of justice we will find tect the safety and health of Ameri- So this is an amendment you might that the higher right and the higher cans. want to consider favorably, because moral ground, along with the balance Mr. COBLE. Madam Chairman, I rise when you do not disclose vital health of the scales of justice, requires that in opposition to the amendment. and safety information and keep it out April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2265 of the public’s reach, we have people and, again, this is not open season on than 7 years, and literally tens of thou- that pay dearly; loss of life, as has been violating settlements; it is allowing sands of victims later. referenced by the gentlewoman from the judge to make an independent as- I would imagine if the business com- Texas. sessment that, in fact, you would do munity actually sat down, scratched So these protective orders are dan- damage to public health and safety if their head, and took out their pen, it gerous. The artificial heart valves you did not open these records. would have been better for this infor- problem with their defects were kept Mr. CONYERS. Madam Chairman, re- mation to be known in 1984 to avoid hidden. Hundreds of people died unnec- claiming my time, it is an easy ‘‘aye’’ the thousands upon thousands and mil- essarily, because the court allowed vote, and I urge support of the amend- lions of women who have been dev- these records to be sealed. ment. astated by the silicone breast implant. Then before I yield to the gentle- Mr. NADLER. Madam Chairman, I Knowledge would have avoided the woman from Texas, I want to raise the move to strike the requisite number of tragedies of 1998. problem that might become involved words. I also say that with respect to fuel with the tobacco settlement. Look, the Madam Chairman, I rise in support of tanks, with respect, as I said, to the court records have hidden thousands of this amendment. I think it is an excel- heart valves, with respect to a certain critical documents concerning the lent amendment. lighter that was utilized, as well as cer- strategies used around teenage smok- We have all read in the newspapers of tain xerox, asbestos, the Corvair story ing, minority targeting, nicotine ma- settlements of major lawsuits in which which we know so full well, these are nipulation. You do not want to keep many of the documents in court, the stories that the American consumers that information secret, do you? terms of the settlement, are secret. would have far better appreciated or The tobacco industry, bless their The fact is one of the purposes of our benefitted, if a judge had simply as- hearts, have gone to incredible lengths system of justice is to vindicate the sessed beyond the need of secrecy and to keep these documents under wraps. public interest and the public safety. the individuals inside that courthouse, Let us make sure that with this The suit in which someone sues a to say you have a settlement. But with amendment, they will not be able to do major company because the product respect to the violation of the con- that, because the courts are public in- they are producing is unsafe, that it is sumer product or the product itself, I stitutions, and the records and what going to cause deaths, and the com- believe in making an assessment. goes on in the courts should be within pany settles the suit, and one of the That information should either go to the province of the people. terms of the settlement is that the evi- the public or a governmental agency. Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam dence and the admission, perhaps, that That is what we are losing if we do not Chairman, will the gentleman yield? vote for this amendment. I cannot Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gentle- this product is unsafe, or will cause death unless modified; you keep that imagine if we are talking about judi- woman from Texas. cial reform that we would not allow a Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam secret so people do not know it, that does not serve the public interest. court to make that assessment. Chairman, I thank the ranking member For the response that the rule works Companies should not be permitted for yielding. I am glad the gentleman all right, what was really said was we to buy off for cash these kind of safety has emphasized this is not and does not have seen no problems. We know a concerns so that other members of the have an impact on civil rights cases. judge will do it if they need do it. public will die or be injured. This needs Clearly, it points to the question of Again, I am not doubting the integrity to be in the public domain. public health and safety. of the judiciary, but this is too high a So I commend the gentlewoman from Interestingly enough, if we want to stake for us to leave it randomly to the Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE) for having clarify the procedural tracking of this arguments of lawyers who would plead the originality and initiative to offer amendment in committee, we had to that judge, ‘‘don’t you dare,’’ and, this amendment. I ask my colleagues unanimous consent on this amendment rightly so, the judge leaves it secret, to vote for it. for a period of time. I do note, and I, rather than making an independent as- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam too, want to add to the collegiality of sessment that would cause a review of Chairman, will the gentleman yield? the floor debate and say to the gen- that material to allow just that infor- Mr. NADLER. I yield to the gentle- tleman from North Carolina (Chairman mation, public safety and health, to be woman from Texas. COBLE) that I recognize that there are allowed to be part of the public right- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam supporters of this bill that are not sup- to-know. porting this particular amendment. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for Madam Chairman, with that, I would Many of them are from the manufac- his leadership on many of these issues. ask with all due seriousness and call turing and business community. I would like to go back, Madam for judicial reform; that this is an I would argue that that does not jus- Chairman, to something that remains amendment that speaks to reform be- tify opposing this particular amend- sort of controversial even today, but yond all. I would certainly ask that my ment, because, in fact, I think it is knowing the many breast implant sur- colleagues join in voting for this more important to not get into a dis- vivors that I have had the opportunity amendment on behalf of the American cussion between defense attorneys and to interact with from a perspective of people’s right to know. trial lawyers or plaintiff’s lawyers. not trying to do anything more than to Mr. NADLER. Madam Chairman, re- This has to be a question of the public bring to the American public that their claiming my time, I would add that I health and safety and the balance be- illnesses, that the impact of the sili- hope everyone votes for this amend- tween the scales of justice. cone breast implants are not a dream; ment. It seems to me this is one of the Do you want knowledge about car they are not unreal, they are actually very few amendments for which the ar- seats that impact babies to be kept se- real. guments are all on one side. I urge all cret, so that those who would have to So we are not talking about now the Members to vote for it. utilize these seats will not have the op- litigation and debate or nonlitigation. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mrs. portunity to know the information to What we want to debate is whether or EMERSON). The question is on the prevent future litigation? What about not if we had had this particular provi- amendment offered by the gentle- Xomax, the artificial pain reliever that sion we would have been able to avoid woman from Texas (Ms. JACKSON-LEE). was manufactured in the early 1980s the tragedies of what we are seeing The question was taken; and the and was found to be dangerous? What today with so many victims of silicone Chairman pro tempore announced that about waterslides, where a gentleman breast implants. the noes appeared to have it. fell and slid and broke his neck? Why For example, in 1984, as I said earlier, RECORDED VOTE would we not want the information to and I want to repeat this, studies indi- Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam be able to provide the consumers with cated the hazards of silicone breast im- Chairman, I demand a recorded vote. the basis of not having that happen plants were being uncovered. Because A recorded vote was ordered. again? of a protective order, this critical in- The vote was taken by electronic de- So I really think that we do better to formation was hidden from the public vice, and there were—ayes 177, noes 242, err on the side of allowing the judge, view and from the FDA until 1992, more not voting 13, as follows: H2266 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 [Roll No. 104] Houghton Neumann Shaw tems, no sprinklers, there was no Hulshof Ney Shimkus AYES—177 Hunter Northup Shuster preplanning, no exit drills. There were Abercrombie Green Mollohan Hutchinson Norwood Sisisky no efforts in place to guarantee the Ackerman Hall (OH) Moran (VA) Hyde Nussle Skaggs safety of both the Members and our Allen Harman Morella Inglis Oxley Skeen constituents. Andrews Hefner Nadler Jenkins Packard Skelton Today I can rise and report exactly Baesler Hilliard Neal John Pappas Smith (MI) Baldacci Hinchey Oberstar Johnson (CT) Parker Smith (NJ) the opposite. In fact the response was Barcia Hinojosa Obey Johnson, Sam Paul Smith (OR) quick, it was efficient. The Sergeant at Barrett (WI) Holden Olver Jones Pease Smith (TX) Arms, the Capitol Hill Police, and Kanjorski Peterson (MN) Smith, Linda Becerra Hooley Ortiz those brave officers who by the way Bentsen Horn Owens Kasich Peterson (PA) Snowbarger Bereuter Hoyer Pallone Kelly Petri Snyder had to go to the hospital because of Berman Jackson (IL) Pascrell Kim Pickering Solomon smoke inhalation and whose names I King (NY) Pickett Souder Berry Jackson-Lee Pastor will enter into the RECORD today, all Bishop (TX) Payne Kingston Pitts Spence Blagojevich Jefferson Pelosi Klug Pombo Stearns performed above and beyond the call of Blumenauer Johnson (WI) Poshard Knollenberg Pomeroy Stenholm duty. Bonior Johnson, E. B. Price (NC) Kolbe Porter Stump I might add, however, that Members LaHood Portman Sununu Borski Kaptur Rahall who were on the seventh floor of Long- Boswell Kennedy (MA) Rangel Largent Pryce (OH) Talent Boucher Kennedy (RI) Reyes Latham Quinn Tauzin worth did acknowledge that imme- Brown (CA) Kennelly Rivers LaTourette Radanovich Taylor (MS) diately the alarm system did not go Brown (FL) Kildee Rodriguez Lazio Ramstad Taylor (NC) off, and that is the reason why we must Brown (OH) Kilpatrick Rohrabacher Lewis (CA) Redmond Thomas Campbell Kind (WI) Roybal-Allard Lewis (KY) Regula Thornberry continue to press for adequate Capps Kleczka Rush Linder Riggs Thune preplanning and the need for us to un- Cardin Klink Sabo Livingston Riley Tiahrt derstand the severity of the situation. Carson Kucinich Sanchez LoBiondo Roemer Traficant As I stood there during the entire op- Clayton LaFalce Sanders Lofgren Rogan Turner Clement Lampson Sawyer Lucas Rogers Upton eration and saw people in wheelchairs Clyburn Lantos Schumer Maloney (NY) Ros-Lehtinen Walsh and people who were challenged phys- Conyers Leach Scott Manzullo Rothman Wamp ically coming off the elevators, we Matsui Roukema Watkins Costello Lee Serrano come to realize the importance of tak- Coyne Levin Shays McCollum Royce Watt (NC) Cummings Lewis (GA) Sherman McDade Ryun Watts (OK) ing lessons in advance to understand Davis (FL) Lipinski Slaughter McHugh Salmon Weldon (FL) the potential for injury and perhaps Davis (IL) Lowey Smith, Adam McInnis Sandlin Weldon (PA) even loss of life in these kinds of situa- DeFazio Luther Spratt McIntosh Sanford Weller DeGette Maloney (CT) Stabenow McKeon Saxton White tions. Delahunt Manton Stark Metcalf Scarborough Whitfield So while the story was absolutely a DeLauro Markey Stokes Mica Schaefer, Dan Wicker positive one, and Sergeant at Arms Moran (KS) Schaffer, Bob Wolf Deutsch Martinez Strickland Livingood and the Architect of the Dingell Mascara Stupak Murtha Sensenbrenner Young (AK) Doggett McCarthy (MO) Tauscher Myrick Sessions Young (FL) Capitol, Ken Lauzier and the Chief of Edwards McCarthy (NY) Thompson Nethercutt Shadegg the Capitol Hill Police did an abso- Emerson McDermott Thurman NOT VOTING—13 lutely fantastic job with all the various Engel McGovern Tierney Eshoo McHale Torres Bateman Gutierrez Miller (FL) components that we could muster on Etheridge McIntyre Towns Clay Hall (TX) Paxon Capitol Hill, Dr. Eisold’s staff to treat Evans McKinney Velazquez Cook Hastings (FL) Tanner those personnel who were, in fact, af- Farr McNulty Vento Dixon Istook fected with smoke inhalation, there are Fattah Meehan Visclosky Gonzalez McCrery some lessons to be learned from this. I Fazio Meek (FL) Waters b Filner Meeks (NY) Waxman 1351 would hope that it would remind all of Ford Menendez Wexler Ms. McCARTHY of Missouri, Mrs. us that we need to understand that life Fox Millender- Weygand THURMAN and Mr. BOSWELL changed Frank (MA) McDonald Wise safety, both for ourselves and for our Frost Miller (CA) Woolsey their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ staffs and for our constituents, needs Furse Minge Wynn So the amendment was rejected. to be a top priority every day this Con- Gejdenson Mink Yates The result of the vote was announced gress is in session. Gephardt Moakley as above recorded. Mr. HOYER. Madam Chairman, will NOES—242 (By unanimous consent, Mr. WELDON the gentleman yield? Aderholt Chenoweth Foley of Pennsylvania was allowed to speak Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania. I Archer Christensen Forbes out of order.) yield to the gentleman from Maryland. Armey Coble Fossella ANNOUNCEMENT OF FIRE EMERGENCY IN THE Mr. HOYER. Madam Chairman, I Bachus Coburn Fowler LONGWORTH HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING Baker Collins Franks (NJ) thank the gentleman from Pennsyl- Ballenger Combest Frelinghuysen Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania. vania (Mr. WELDON) for yielding to me. Barr Condit Gallegly Madam Chairman, I move to strike the Madam Chairman, as all of us know, Barrett (NE) Cooksey Ganske last word. many of us know, the gentleman from Bartlett Cox Gekas Barton Cramer Gibbons Madam Chairman, we just experi- Pennsylvania has been one of the lead- Bass Crane Gilchrest enced what could have been a very ers on fire service protection not only Bilbray Crapo Gillmor tragic incident in one of our House of- on Capitol Hill but throughout this Bilirakis Cubin Gilman fice buildings, and that was a fire Bliley Cunningham Goode country. Blunt Danner Goodlatte which started in the basement of the He is a former chief of a volunteer Boehlert Davis (VA) Goodling new elevator shaft that is being con- fire company of his own congressional Boehner Deal Gordon structed, that poured smoke through- district, a former municipal leader. Bonilla DeLay Goss Bono Diaz-Balart Graham out that seven-story complex and re- And he did, in fact, raise to a high level Boyd Dickey Granger quired that building to be evacuated of attention, subsequent to the fire in Brady Dicks Greenwood for a significant period of time. Speaker Wright’s office, the necessity Bryant Dooley Gutknecht Eleven years ago I came on this floor to make our buildings more safe for Bunning Doolittle Hamilton Burr Doyle Hansen and offered a privileged resolution of our Members, for our staffs, as well as Burton Dreier Hastert the House regarding the health and for the visitors to our offices. Buyer Duncan Hastings (WA) safety of the Members, because we had Today’s fire in the Longworth House Callahan Dunn Hayworth Calvert Ehlers Hefley a similar fire in then Speaker Jim Office Building was a fire that appar- Camp Ehrlich Herger Wright’s office which burned out of ently an acetylene torch, I think, heat- Canady English Hill control, and to which I had to respond ed up some materials that ignited very Cannon Ensign Hilleary that the buildings that we work in are rapidly and shot flames seven stories Castle Everett Hobson Chabot Ewing Hoekstra absolute fire traps because there were high up through the elevator shaft. Chambliss Fawell Hostettler no detection devices, no alarm sys- There was very significant smoke on April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2267 the seventh floor. I do not know about b 1400 have been very concerned, and I have other floors, but I heard from my staff We thank all of them. We thank the opposed allowing cameras into trial on the seventh floor. chief of the department, Chief Abrecht. courts because I feared it might intimi- What is significant, and I think we We thank Bill Livingood for a fantastic date witnesses. It is already intimidat- all ought to know, is the extraor- job, Dr. Eisold, as well as Ken Lauizer ing enough for someone who witnesses dinarily quick and very skillful re- and everyone who came together in an accident or a crime, and then sees sponse that was given by the Capitol doing what should have been the right an appeal on television that the police ask anyone who has seen this or has in- Hill officers, our medical staffs, the thing, and that is responding. I would formation please come forward. It is in- Sergeant at Arms’ staff, all of those encourage, again, our colleagues to re- timidating enough for such a person who were called upon to assist in evac- member that on the seventh floor, the who knows that if they come forward uating the building. Some of the offi- alarm did not go off. they may well be asked to testify in cers that were taken out, were taken It is our responsibility to make sure court; they may well be subject to out because they remained in the if an incident occurs that we have to building to make sure that the building cross-examination by an attorney activate that manual alarm. It does whose job it is to impeach their credi- was, in fact, evacuated by showing not activate automatically. You have great courage to assure the safety of bility as a witness, and to make them to pull that device down. That was not look foolish. In effect, that is a pretty all of those who might be in the build- done on the seventh floor. ing. intimidating prospect. Furthermore, I would say this is an It is bad enough even if you are only In addition, I want to report that my opportune time for me to announce going to be subject to that cross-exam- staff reported that the District of Co- that next Thursday at this time, 12 ination in front of 30 people in the lumbia Fire Department was there al- noon, there will be 3,000 firefighters courtroom. But to be subject to that most immediately. There has been from across the country in the parking cross-examination perhaps in front of some criticism of the District of Co- lot right outside this door where we all your relatives, and friends, and lumbia Fire Department for not re- will assemble the largest gathering the wife, and children, and neighbors might sponding as quickly as they might, but Nation’s fire and EMS community who be even more intimidating. I have al- in this instance they were there very, are coming to us to talk about the fact ways feared that this might lead to very quickly. that they feel we are not doing enough some witnesses not coming forward. And I think we owe a debt of thanks to assist them in their current efforts The gentleman from Ohio (Mr. to all of those who we rely on day-to- by our agencies in Washington to deal CHABOT) suggested a way out of this di- day. As is so often the case, we do not with the threats of terrorism and the lemma, and I am delighted to join him think of them because we are not per- response to those terrorist acts. in offering this amendment. He sug- sonally involved, it does not happen, I would encourage our colleagues to gested, and what this amendment does there is not a crisis. And because they join with the gentleman from Mary- is to say that where you are having are there to respond to domestic crises land (Mr. HOYER) and myself as we cameras in the courtroom in a trial such as this and we do not have one, we have a national press conference with court, any witness other than a party may not acknowledge their presence the Speaker in attendance and focus on to the action may at his or her request and their readiness to risk their limbs their issues, one week from today at 12 have his face and voice distorted so you and their lives to protect their commu- noon directly outside of the House cannot tell whose face it is, and you nities. Chambers. cannot recognize the voice. You can So I want to join with the distin- AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. NADLER still hear what he is saying on the tele- guished gentleman from Pennsylvania Mr. NADLER. Madam Chairman, I vision so that, yes, this person’s name (Mr. WELDON), who has really made it a offer an amendment. will be known; yes, you can photograph cause, and a successful one at that, to The Clerk read as follows: him walking in or out of the court- ensure that we are aware of the risks Amendment offered by Mr. NADLER: room, but he is not, he will have less and take every precaution to avert Page 17, strike line 20 and insert the fol- fear of being made to look foolish in risks that might have tragic con- lowing: front of his friends on television by the sequences for individuals not only on (b) AUTHORITY OF DISTRICT COURTS.— opposing attorney. Capitol Hill, not only in this city, but (1) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding— This is not the most important thing throughout this country. Move the remaining text on lines 21 in the world, but I suspect very much through 25 2 ems to the right. that there are witnesses in this world So I thank the gentleman for taking Add after line 25 the following: this time and thank him for yielding who will come forward if this is the (2) OBSCURING OF WITNESSES.—(A) Upon the procedure who might not otherwise me this time. request of any witness in a trial proceeding Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania. other than a party, the court shall order the come forward if this is not the proce- Madam Chairman, reclaiming my time, face and voice of the witness to be disguised dure. Again, you have cameras in the just in closing I would mention from or otherwise obscured in such manner as to courtroom. This does not take that the D.C. Fire Department that Battal- render the witness unrecognizable to the broadcast audience of the trial proceeding. away. But it simply allows a witness at ion Chief Schaefer was the leader. We (B) The presiding judge in a trial proceed- the witness’ request to have his or her had Engine Company 13, 2, 8 and 6; ing shall inform each witness who is not a face and voice obscured during the tes- Truck Company 7 and 10; Rescue Com- party that the witness has the right to re- timony. At the committee, no argu- pany 1 and 3; and Battalion 2. They did quest that his or her image and voice be ob- ments were offered in opposition so an absolutely fantastic job. scured during the witness’ testimony. there was some confusion and some In addition, I would like to enter the Mr. NADLER (during the reading). Members voted against it. I hope that names of those officers who were taken Madam Chairman, I ask unanimous will not happen on the House floor to the hospital. We do not know the consent that the amendment be consid- today. status of these officers’ conditions. ered as read and printed in the RECORD. Mr. CHABOT. Madam Chairman, I They were all affected by smoke inha- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mrs. move to strike the last word. lation, but I think it once again under- EMERSON). Is there objection to the re- I rise in support of the amendment scores the need for us to be aware of quest of the gentleman from New offered by the gentleman from New the duty and the honor that these peo- York? York (Mr. NADLER) and myself. The ple take so seriously in protecting the There was no objection. amendment gives important protec- lives of ourselves and our constituents. Mr. NADLER. Madam Chairman, I tions to witnesses who may be other- Taken to local hospitals and either am pleased to offer this amendment wise reluctant to testify in a televised treated or currently there for further along with my colleague, the gen- trial by requiring upon request of the treatment are Sergeant Givens, Officer tleman from Ohio (Mr. CHABOT). As my witness that the face and voice of the Merz, Officer Scott, Officer Worley, Of- colleagues know, this bill would permit witness be disguised or obscured in ficer Sturdivant, Officer Cleveland and cameras into Federal district courts at such a manner that it will not be evi- Officer Blackman-Malloy. the judge’s discretion. In the past, I dent who that person is testifying. I H2268 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 think it is a good amendment. I thank tunate, so I will also vote for the There was no objection. the gentleman for offering it. amendment. Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, Mr. COBLE. Madam Chairman, I The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The this amendment is offered by myself move to strike the requisite number of question is on the amendment offered and the gentleman from New York (Mr. words. by the gentleman from New York (Mr. NADLER) to correct what is a very seri- I will not consume 5 minutes. As we NADLER). ous defect in our Federal criminal and all know, cameras in the courtroom is The amendment was agreed to. civil procedures. an issue adamantly opposed by some; Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Madam Under our Federal law and the law of enthusiastically supported by others. Chairman, I move to strike the last many States, children can be com- This amendment, it seems to me, does word for the purposes of a colloquy pelled to testify against their parents, no harm. It modifies the cameras in with the chairman. and parents can be compelled to testify the courtroom approach slightly, but I I simply wanted to, in a sense, create against their children. Although most think there the error is harmless, and a legislative record so that everybody prosecutors refrain from subjecting a I will not resist the amendment, not is aware of an interpretation that we family to this terrible situation, it can oppose the amendment. are giving to a provision in this bill, and does occur. I have long believed Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. and wanted to call the chairman’s at- that parents and their children should Madam Chairman, I move to strike the tention to page 3, section 3 of the bill, be shielded from this trauma, and that requisite number of words. and reaffirm with the chairman that it doing so would not do significant dam- After the passionate appeal of the is, in fact, the intention of this bill to age to the administration of justice. gentleman from North Carolina, I allow an immediate appeal either on Therefore last month the gentleman thought I would try to restore a sense the granting of a class action motion, from New York (Mr. NADLER) and I in- of calm to the Chamber. I also do not or on the denial of a class action mo- troduced H.R. 3577, which currently has regard this as an amendment of enor- tion to assure that this provision in the 18 cosponsors in the House. This bill, mous significance. I may approach it, bill is intended to work in both direc- the Confidence in the Family Act, is however, from the opposite direction. I tions. identical to this proposed amendment. do not like the underlying provision. Mr. COBLE. Madam Chairman, will This amendment would ensure that I think requiring witnesses to a trial the gentleman yield? parents and children could not be com- to be on camera, I think, is a mistake. Mr. WATT of North Carolina. I yield pelled to testify against one another, I think where you are talking about to the gentleman from North Carolina. and that confidential communications appellate courts, it is reasonable, and I Mr. COBLE. Madam Chairman, the between parents and children will be think the Supreme Court of the United gentleman from North Carolina is pre- protected. These privileges would be States deserves criticism for not allow- cisely correct; that is the intent, to similar to the privileges currently pro- ing its arguments to be run. I can apply to both. vided under Federal law to spouses, and think of few things that would be more AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MS. LOFGREN would be developed by the courts in useful and more informative for the Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, I light of the common law, reason, and country than for people to be able to offer an amendment. experience. watch Supreme Court arguments. Rule 501 of the Federal Rules of Evi- The Clerk read as follows: The notion that the nine Supreme dence states that, except as otherwise Court justices and members of the Su- Amendment offered by Ms. LOFGREN: required by the Constitution of the Add the following at the end: preme Court bar would somehow be in- United States or act of Congress, the timidated or thrown off by this is non- SEC. 12. PARENT-CHILD TESTIMONIAL PRIVI- LEGES IN FEDERAL CIVIL AND privilege of witnesses, persons, govern- sensical. But when you get to wit- CRIMINAL PROCEEDINGS. ments, States, et cetera, will be gov- nesses, I think it is a mistake. I am not Rule 501 of the Federal Rules of Evidence is erned by the principles of the common offering an amendment now; I do not amended— law as they may be interpreted by the want to take the time in the House. I (1) by designating the 1st sentence as sub- courts of the United States. do think the gentleman’s amendment division (a); We went to this development of evi- makes a situation that I regard as an (2) by designating the 2nd sentence as sub- dence back in 1975 when the Committee unfortunate one a little less unfortu- division (c); and on the Judiciary recommended, and the (3) by inserting after the sentence so des- nate. I think it is a good idea to have ignated as subdivision (a) the following new Congress adopted, the rule that allows the face obscured. subdivision: our courts to develop the details of On the other hand, I do have to say ‘‘(b)(1) A witness may not be compelled to privileges and exceptions. the gentleman said, well, people might testify against a child or parent of the wit- As you note, in the amendment that be afraid of being made to look foolish. ness. the development of this exception for They will still be made to look foolish. ‘‘(2) A witness may not be compelled to dis- parents and children should follow that They will, however, be made to look close the content of a confidential commu- allowed for spouses. In answer to some foolish with their face obscured. There nication with a child or parent of the wit- questions that Members have had, ness. may be a large number of people in this ‘‘(3) For purposes of this subdivision, spouses currently can be compelled to society who do not mind being made to ‘child’ means, with respect to an individual, testify against each other in certain look foolish, when everyone knows who a birth, adoptive, or step-child of the individ- circumstances. they are, as long as their faces are ob- ual, and any person (such as a foster child or For example, threats against spouses scured. But I think the, okay, put a a relative of whom the individual has long- and spouses’ children do not further mask over me and make me look silly term custody) with respect to whom the the purposes of marital communica- group is smaller than my friend may court recognizes the individual as having a tions, and therefore are not protected make. right to act as a parent. from disclosure. Similarly, marital So therefore I would rather not see ‘‘(4) The privileges provided in this subdivi- sion shall be governed by principles of the communications subject to the privi- this at all with regard to witnesses. I common law, as they may be interpreted by lege are subject to an exception for do think anybody ought to have a right the courts of the United States in the light crimes committed against a minor to object. When you talk about people of reason and experience, that are similar to child and the rule that one spouse can- who are involuntary participants, pri- the principles that apply to the similar privi- not be a witness against the other is vate citizens, not used to the public de- leges of a witness with respect to a spouse of subject to exception where one spouse bate being thrust into the public this the witness.’’. commits an offense against the other. way in a trial, I do not think it is a Ms. LOFGREN (during the reading). That is U.S. v. Allery. good idea to require them to be cross- Madam Chairman, I ask unanimous Why is this important? I think many examined, perhaps, and made to look consent that the amendment be consid- of us, without going into any of the de- foolish to be there. But that is not the ered as read and printed in the RECORD. tails, recently observed a situation in issue now. This is an amendment that, The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Is which a mother was asked in a very as I said, makes what I regard as an un- there objection to the request of the high profile case to testify about con- fortunate situation a little less unfor- gentlewoman from California? fidences that her daughter had placed April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2269 in her. When I saw that, and it is not a The amendment creates a broad Madam Chairman, I rise to support new thing in the law, I immediately privilege that would prevent a court this amendment to protect the parent- thought of my daughter who is 16 years from compelling a witness to testify child privilege. A few weeks ago, I old, and I thought, could the govern- against a child or a parent of that wit- joined with the gentlewoman from ment force me to reveal what my 16- ness or from revealing confidential California (Ms. LOFGREN) to introduce year-old told to me in confidence? conversations between the two. The a bill to create this privilege in Federal There is something quite wrong about overwhelming majority of Federal and law; and I am proud to support this that. State courts, Madam Chairman, have amendment today. We parents spend most of our lives rejected such a parent-child privilege. Frankly, I always assumed it was in trying to make sure that our children The Judicial Conference—well, let the law. It was only when we read trust us enough that if they have a me say it a different way. I do not about the situation with Ms. Lewis problem, if there is something that is mean to say that we should only com- being compelled to testify against her troublesome, they always know that ply with what the Judicial Conference daughter by the independent counsel they can, and they should, come to wants. But we do stay in touch with that I, to my surprise, found there was their mom and sort through it with us the Judicial Conference, and the Judi- no such privilege. so that we can help them make mature cial Conference has not informed the This amendment will not affect that decisions, so that we can help them committee that it plans to recommend situation. That testimony has already lead a good life, and come to where any changes to Rule 501, which is of occurred. But it will affect the future. they need to be. some significance I think. We pride ourselves in this country on If the young people of this country Recognition of a parent-child privi- the sanctity of the family. It is one of understand, as they currently do now, lege might prevent a parent from act- the core, fundamental American val- unfortunately quite well, that the con- ing in the child’s best interest by noti- ues. We encourage our kids to talk to fidences revealed to a parent as we sort fying authorities. Similarly would the us. We ask them to confide in us, to through the things that we do in ado- alleged benefits of such a privilege out- come to us when they are in trouble. It lescence could be forced out into public weigh the harm caused by a child is not always easy, but I am sure a lot view, that important bond, that impor- whose testimony could not be com- of fellow parents out there will agree tant value, that family value is unal- pelled against a parent indulging, for with me when I say that developing terably disrupted. example, in drug trafficking. that bond of trust between parent and The scope of the privilege is not ex- We have talked a little bit about the child is part of what being a parent is plained in the Lofgren amendment. I do details and the exceptions to this rule all about. not think the scope of the privilege is of evidence, but I think it is important The concept that a parent could be explained in the amendment. For ex- to understand why there are exceptions compelled to testify against his or her ample, would it only apply to to forcing testimony at all. own daughter or son is shocking to a unemancipated minors? What about lot of people. It is shocking to me. In b 1415 stepparents? What about grandparents? fact, a lot of people that I have spoken And I guess I alluded to this earlier, We do not force a husband and wife to are amazed that this kind of thing is Madam Chairman, that this was not to testify against each other, and the not illegal already. They have asked, the subject of the subcommittee hear- reason why is that we have said that how can we do this in America? ing nor the full committee markup. the spousal relationship is so impor- We have decided in our judicial sys- And I think the idea is, essentially, un- tant that we will not allow it to be dis- tem that certain privileges, certain re- tested at the State level; and I just do rupted by the government for any pur- lationships are sacred. The vast major- not believe that we can anticipate the pose. ity of jurisdictions recognize the hus- consequences of enactment. And I just Surely, the relationship between band-wife privilege as well as attorney- believe that it is ill-timed, among mother and daughter, between father client and psychiatrist-patient. And, and daughter, between father and son other reasons that I just mentioned. Madam Chairman, I yield to the gen- yes, there are cases that would have is as valuable, as precious as that be- tlewoman from California (Ms. turned out differently if we could have tween husband and wife. LOFGREN). compelled a psychiatrist to testify I hope that the House will look favor- Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, I about his patient or lawyer against her ably upon the amendment. recognize that the gentleman from client or husband against wife or wife Mr. COBLE. Madam Chairman, I rise North Carolina disagrees on the sub- against husband. But that is not the in opposition to the amendment, and I stance, but I did want to clarify so as kind of judicial system we want, where do so not real comfortably because of not to mislead in terms of my previous husbands and wives are compelled to the fact that the gentlewoman from comment. I was referring to line 3 in testify against each other except where California (Ms. LOFGREN) has been a Rule 501. there has occurred spousal abuse or very valuable member of the Commit- ‘‘The privilege of a witness, person, child abuse or something of that na- tee on the Judiciary and, more specifi- government, State or political subdivi- ture. It is not the kind of country we cally, the Subcommittee on Courts and sion thereof shall be governed by the want. Intellectual Property. principles of the common law as they I have long believed that the same But I say to the gentlewoman from may be interpreted by the courts of the sort of privilege should be extended to California, there is a matter that prob- United States and in the light of rea- parents or children. No parents should ably should have come a little earlier. son and experience,’’ is what I meant ever be faced with the agony of being I realize that we cannot always be per- to refer to so as to avoid any confusion. in contempt of court or of testifying fect as far as timing is concerned. But And as my colleague notes in the against his or her child. No child Rule 501 simply requires a court to ob- amendment, on line 3, page 2, the should ever have to fear that sharing serve principles of common law when amendment suggests to the court that personal information with his parent deciding whether to confer privileged the privileges to be carved out for par- or her parent could result in a sub- status to an individual or relationship ent-child should be similar to those poena for his parent. unless an action is civil and involves with the same exceptions that have This amendment would remedy this State law, in which case State law on been devised for the spousal privilege. by establishing this parent-child privi- the matter would be applicable. Further, in answer to the question as lege and would require the Federal A privilege means, as most of my col- to foster parents or stepchild, I have courts to establish its boundaries ac- leagues know, that a court may not suggested, on line 17 on section 3, that cording to the principles of common compel testimony against a privileged such individuals should be included if law as well as the court’s own reason witness or party. For example, many the court recognizes that the individ- and experience. States will not compel a person to tes- ual is seen as having the right to act as For the past several years, there has tify against his or her spouse or to re- a parent. been a lot of talk in this town about veal confidential conversations be- Mr. NADLER. Madam Chairman, I family values. I think it is fair to say tween them. move to strike the last word. that this amendment is a test of that. H2270 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 If we truly respect family values, we were talking about a kidnapping? What cause it is germane and because I am must put our money where our mouth if we were talking about a 60-year-old reasonably confident that my bill will is. If we truly respect family values, we parent and a 35-year-old child? What if not be heard. must protect the ability of parents and the criminal was the 60-year-old parent Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. children to have full trust in each and the 35-year-old child had valuable Madam Chairman, let me say this. I other and not fear the court’s subpoena information dealing with a serious fel- think the gentlewoman has made to get in between them. ony? something of an assumption that is not Now, I heard the gentleman a mo- This bill extends the privilege equal- fair to the gentleman from North Caro- ment ago say that we do not want to ly to a 35-year-old child of a 60-year-old lina. I do not see why she would as- prevent parents, that this amendment accused criminal as it does to a 35- sume that we could not have a hearing might prevent parents from notifying year-old mother of an 8-year-old child, on this issue. I would be surprised if authorities in case of crimes or dam- or vice versa. So, for instance, one of the gentleman from North Carolina ages. But that is mistaken. It would the questions I have and I noted my said at an appropriate time he will not not. This amendment would only pre- staff pointed out to me, the State of do this. vent compulsion from the court. It Massachusetts has such a privilege for I will note that, on a bill that has would prevent the court from compel- minor children only. Now, that is an been a bill for less than a month, it ling a parent to testify or a child to interesting idea I would like to ex- certainly would not be fair to criticize, testify against his or her parent. It plore. Maybe there ought to be some and the gentlewoman was not criticiz- would certainly not prevent the par- kind of privilege for minors. But that ing. We have only been back in session ents from notifying the police or the is not in this bill. for about a week and a half. But I courts of drugs of or crimes or of dan- This bill went through subcommit- think this is something we should be ger or anything else that they wanted tee. It went through hearing and sub- considering. But taking it up on the to notify and thought it advisable to committee and committee. This is the floor now, when nobody knows much notify the police or other authorities first I have heard of it. I notice the about it, without any of these ques- about. It simply would say the court gentlewoman from California (Ms. tions, on a blanket basis, seems to me shall not be between a parent and child LOFGREN) did file this as part of her a very poor way to legislate. I also want to add again, I disagree at and compel that testimony. bill on March 28, the Friday before we I think we have to recognize, as to went out. It is just not enough time. this point. I do not understand why a this human relationship we have, if we This is civil and criminal. Maybe 40-year-old who may have murdered are ever going to be serious about pro- there should be a privilege in civil someone should be shielded from his or tecting family values, this is the key. cases. Although, even in civil cases, I her 60-year-old parent testifying. I do not understand that. It is a very dif- Everything else we do about family note when I read about insider trading, ferent situation if we are talking about values may be wise or not wise, but a crime which a lot of people on my a 14-year-old. But having one blanket nothing is more key than enabling a side do not like, that very often those to cover all of these situations seems parent and a child to talk under all cir- involved in insider trading are rel- to me to be a mistake. atives, they are adult relatives, the cumstances without anyone worrying Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, if that someone is going to compel the adult stockbroker son of a lawyer fa- the gentleman would yield further, child or the parent to testify in court ther or mother. Well, I do not know that is a substantive disagreement; and about the confidences. We want chil- that I want to give those people a that is fair enough. dren to be able to confide in their par- privilege. I would like to point out, however, in ents and vice versa. I do not see that there is any problem defense of the proposal, even though I So I very much urge all my col- in saying that adult children and adult understand his valid and thoughtful ob- leagues to support this excellent parents who are in the financial busi- jection, but the better view in terms of amendment. ness can conspire to do inside trading the cases as to criminal activity in the Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. without talking to each other. These area of spousal privilege is that the Madam Chairman, I move to strike the are all the issues that ought to be privilege does not apply to furtherance requisite number of words. talked about, and they have not been. of this. I rise to disagree with my friend on I do not think it is a good idea in Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. the general principle, also on one spe- anger against Kenneth Starr to bring Madam Chairman, I thank the gentle- cific. He said, in the course of discus- this forward at this point without woman. As she knows, the better view sion of good conversations with our knowing a lot more about it. Maybe means, for the nonlawyers, understand parents, we should put our money there are Members here who know a lot my colleague is talking lawyer now, where our mouth is. My mother always more than I do about this subject. That not English. That is not her fault. That told me never to put any money in my would not be hard. But that is pre- is the language. mouth. So I want to be truth to what cisely the point. I doubt that very The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mrs. she taught me. many of us are very familiar with this. EMERSON). The time of the gentleman But I have both substantive and pro- The gentleman from New York (Mr. from Massachusetts (Mr. FRANK) has cedural objections to this amendment. NADLER) acknowledged that he was expired. I understand that a lot of my col- surprised, as many were, that there (By unanimous consent, Mr. FRANK leagues were unhappy with what Ken- was no such privilege. I do not think was allowed to proceed for 2 additional neth Starr did. I have been often un- we should go as a body from ignorance minutes.) happy about what Kenneth Starr did. about it, which I certainly had, to Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. We might even want to come back within a month or so passing a law Madam Chairman, the better view after we have adjourned in a special that governs every civil case and every means more people hold that view than session and call it the Kenneth Starr criminal case in the Federal system hold the other view. It means more correction session. Because there are a and every parent and every child no courts have gone one way more than number of things I would like to do to matter what their age. the other. But it also means some change some of the things Kenneth Madam Chairman, I yield to the gen- courts have gone the other way. So the Starr has done, beginning with the un- tlewoman from California (Ms. gentlewoman is agreeing that, under derlying statute, but not in this man- LOFGREN). the law to which she would refer us, ner. Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, I this is an unsettled question and some Hard cases make bad law we are told. thank the gentleman from Massachu- judges go one way and some another. Well, it can also be bad law if we react setts for yielding. Well, I think if we are going to deal too quickly because we have a specific I think the point made about hear- with this kind of privilege, we ought to objection to a particular act. I am ings is not a balanced one and it is one decide whether we want it to cover sorry that he subpoenaed Marcia I have made from time to time on this murder cases. And, again, what the Lewis. But what if we were talking floor about other bills. We have offered gentlewoman has here is a blanket pro- about a case of murder? What if we it up as an amendment to this bill be- vision that applies equally as between April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2271 adults who may have conspired to- course here we are creating for the gentlelady’s amendment may prove to gether to murder and minor children. first time a new privilege: A parent be somewhat convincing, I would like And we all think about children. We all may not be compelled to testify to take those arguments and turn them think about protecting young children. against a child. around in support of the gentlelady’s That is a very valid thing to do. I will forgo the opportunity to broad- amendment, and to acknowledge the b 1430 en this discussion as some have by gentleman from Illinois (Mr. HYDE), bringing in the name of the Independ- the chairman, in recognizing that this It seems to me Massachusetts has a ent Counsel now, but I think it is help- is in fact a bipartisan amendment or good idea by talking differently about ful in this context to note that Presi- one that should garner bipartisan sup- minor children. That is not what the dent Clinton’s lawyers deposed Paula port. gentlewoman’s amendment does. To Jones’ mother, Delmer Lee Corbin, and The fact that Oliver North’s relatives rush into this now and to lock it in her sister, Lydia Cathey, in October of were called, the fact that the Presi- would be an emotional response to an 1997. There was no hue and cry about dent’s lawyers deposed the mother of understandable provocation, but it protecting the mother from compul- Ms. Jones, does not make it any more would be, I think, an inappropriate way sory testimony. right. The issue of parent/child immu- to legislate. I think it is worth noting that Colo- nity should certainly fall and be given I would say, as the senior minority nel North, Oliver North, back in the enough or sufficient or equal deference member of the committee, this is the halcyon days of Iran Contra, his wife as the patient/doctor privilege, the psy- first time I have heard of this issue, was called to testify before the grand chiatrist/patient privilege, the priest’s today, yesterday, taking it back to the jury. Colonel North’s lead attorney, privilege with his religious constitu- Committee on Rules. I would be glad to Brendan Sullivan, was subpoenaed to ent, and certainly the spousal privi- go and lobby my colleague from North appear before the grand jury. Colonel lege. Carolina and let us address this issue of North’s wife’s sister was interrogated What the gentlewoman is saying, I privilege. There may be other privi- about how much it cost to feed their believe, is that the common law has leges we want to look at. The question daughter’s horse. The Norths’ baby-sit- not responded to the crisis. Putting of lawyer/client privilege when the cli- ter and a teenager who mowed the aside the immediacy of the national at- ent has died might be a problem. I sup- Norths’ lawn were questioned about tention to the recent set of cir- pose lawyer/client privilege when the how much they were paid. Oh, and cumstances, I would argue as an aside lawyer has died is less problematic, ex- Colonel North’s minister was asked that the hauling down, in front of mas- cept for Shirley MacLaine. how much the North family contrib- sive media, the horrible evidence of the But, in general, this whole question uted on Sunday. stress on that particular parent cer- of privilege could be looked at, but not So we have had these things before. tainly encourages this kind of pro- hastily in reaction to a very politicized Fortunately, the gentlewoman has be- posal. It does not take away from it. situation involving the current Inde- come sensitized to the problem some- But it certainly answers a response to pendent Counsel, without many Mem- what late in this century, but that is any set of circumstances that involves bers knowing what they should about all right. But I would suggest that this a parent/child, although the gentle- it or having a chance to explore it. is inappropriate, and I hope the woman’s proposal and the proposal of So I urge the Members to vote ‘‘no’’ gentlelady’s amendment is defeated. the gentleman from New York (Mr. on this, and let us deal with this very, I hope, and I pledge, as the gen- NADLER) does give an exception if there very important issue in a more tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. is criminal fraud or conspiracy. So, thoughtful context. FRANK) suggests, that we look at this therefore, if a parent and child were Mr. HYDE. Madam Chairman, I move whole subject across the board on conspiring to do wrong, there is an ex- to strike the requisite number of privilege, but try to take it out of the ception. words. fever swamps of our current political Just a few weeks ago we saw a daring (Mr. HYDE asked and was given per- situation. attempt for a mother to help her child mission to revise and extend his re- Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, escape from jail. I do not think there is marks.) will the gentleman yield? any need to worry about whether there Mr. HYDE. Madam Chairman, I want Mr. HYDE. I yield to the gentle- is parent/child immunity. The bare to join the gentleman from Massachu- woman from California. facts, the visuals will allow us to con- setts (Mr. FRANK) in his well thought Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, I vince, I am sure, at some point, though out sentiments because I think he is just would like to note that I think in there will be a trial, a jury that some- exactly right. This is an important 1973, in the 93rd Congress, that the ref- thing was done wrong, without either subject and it is one that deserves erence, at least the notes from the the child or the parent being required thoughtful consideration. Committee on the Judiciary note sev- to testify against each other. There are A trial is a search for truth; and eral privileges that were recognized others who may provide the evidence when we start asserting privileges, we and then followed into rule 501 for fu- that would be able to point to the are putting obstacles to that search for ture delineation. criminal and/or the civil act of wrong. truth. They may well be justifiable, I understand that the gentleman’s So I do think that if we talk about but I think they do impede the quest objections are well-stated and sincere, all of our expressions of the sanctity of for learning the facts about a given sit- and everyone has respect for his judg- the parent, the child, our brief in the uation. ment. I would just like to note that I best interest of a child, the relation- We have a spousal privilege. We have am in my second term. I was not here ships of family, I believe that this an attorney/client privilege. We have during Iran Contra to object or to in- amendment is one that carries with it executive privilege. We have a Secret troduce bills about that. I think it is the weight of what is right, the moral Service privilege. Now we are creating terrible if Mr. North’s minister was weight of what is right. a parent and child privilege. The whole called by the grand jury. I welcome the opportunity for fur- subject of privilege is, it seems to me, As to the calling of the mother of the ther hearings. important and significant and com- individual referenced, I think that is Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, plicated, and perhaps we should look at objectionable as well. I did not know will the gentlewoman yield? it in a more thoughtful way than we about it until after I introduced this Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. I yield are doing here. bill. to the gentlewoman from California. We missed the priest/penitent privi- Mr. HYDE. Madam Chairman, I yield Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, as lege. But what we are doing here, the back the balance of my time. someone who is steeped in the law and gentlelady’s amendment is creating for Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam a former judge, I am sure the gentle- the first time a Federal privilege, be- Chairman, I move to strike the req- woman is aware of the so-called cause section 501 of the Federal Rules uisite number of words. trilemma that lends doubt to the ve- of Evidence says there are no Federal Madam Chairman, although the argu- racity of testimony compelled by a privileges. We follow the State law. Of ments on the floor opposing the parent against a child. If the parent H2272 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 faces this dilemma, she can either Unabomber would have, even without, tionship. I would commend, as well, the fudge the truth, she can betray her would have been able to determine the family of the Unabomber, and would child’s confidences, or she can go to fact that he was the person and say that that is something that prob- jail. Under those three choices, many brought him to justice. ably occurs more regularly than not prosecutors and many judges have I think more often than not we find where parents and relatives come for- grave doubt about the veracity of testi- circumstances where the parent/child ward because they believe in justice. mony, because some parents choose to relationship really rises above these b 1445 fudge the truth, the first option. questions of these very unique heinous Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam crimes. I would simply say that the In the instance, however, where there Chairman, I thank the gentlewoman parent/child relationship, covering over is a relationship, parent-child, I cannot for that clarification. She is so very 200 million Americans, we can find imagine that we would diminish par- right, that in the course of the setting more cases than not when we should ent-child any lower than the priest, the of a trial and a trial atmosphere, it is protect that relationship as opposed to psychiatrist, the physician, the lawyer often doubtful as to whether that par- suggest we would be, if you will, tam- and anyone else that has now benefited ent is totally truthful on the facts. And pering or hindering the rights of jus- from privilege. And as well let me say so I think that the question of whether tice if we did not allow the parent/child that in the criminal sense I do believe or not we are moving too quickly on a immunity. I simply see a range of that justice will not be denied if we parent/child immunity, I would hope places where that is important. provide this single privilege. that we would recognize that we would I chair the Congressional Children’s Madam Chairman, I would ask sup- not do great or enormous injustice or Caucus. I think that when we talk port of this amendment. deny justice by providing that privi- about promoting children as a national The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mrs. lege. agenda, when we talk about allowing EMERSON). The question is on the Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. these relationships, I look to it as the amendment offered by the gentle- Madam Chairman, will the gentle- bulk of children, if you will, and realize woman from California (Ms. LOFGREN). woman yield? that in cases where we are talking The question was taken; and the Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. I yield about an adult, I think there are excep- Chairman pro tempore announced that to the gentleman from Massachusetts. tions to inhibit any disallowance of the noes appeared to have it. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. justice. Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, I Madam Chairman, let me give another Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, demand a recorded vote. example. Two people for whom I have will the gentlewoman yield? The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- an enormous amount of respect are two Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. I yield ant to House Resolution 408, further people who may be considered to have to the gentlewoman from California. proceedings on the amendment offered betrayed the family tie, but they are Ms. LOFGREN. Madam Chairman, I by the gentlewoman from California the Kaczynskis, Ted Kaczynski’s broth- would just note that all of the modern (Ms. LOFGREN) will be postponed. er and mother. They were not com- cases that I have been able to find in AMENDMENT NO. 4 OFFERED BY MR. DELAY pelled, but they came forward. But the spousal immunity area that would Mr. DELAY. Madam Chairman, I that is an example. They came forward. be the guide in the parental/child im- offer an amendment. Since they came forward, I think lives munity cases do make exceptions for The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The were saved, innocent lives were saved criminal activity. Clerk will designate the amendment. because they took this dangerous mur- I would note also that in the case The text of the amendment is as fol- derer off the streets. cited by our colleague, the Kaczynskis, lows: If, in fact, the prosecutor became I would join in his admiration of the Amendment No. 4 offered by Mr. DELAY: aware that Mrs. Kaczynski had infor- Kaczynski family that came forward Add the following at the end: mation that could have led, as it in under very trying circumstances and SEC. 12 LIMITATION ON PRISONER RELEASE OR- DERS. fact did, to the apprehension of her did the right thing and did save lives, (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 99 of title 28, son, I do not see why we would want to and they did it voluntarily. I believe, United States Code, is amended by adding at give absolute privilege for a man in his had they relevant evidence, clearly the end the following new section: 50s and his mother so that she could that since they came forward with the § 1632. Limitation on prisoner release orders not be compelled to testify. In her case evidence, they would have testified. ‘‘(a) LIMITATION.—Notwithstanding section it was voluntary, but we could have The CHAIRMAN. The time of the 3626(a)(3) of title 18 or any other provision of seen a situation where that compulsory gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. JACKSON law, in a civil action with respect to prison testimony could have been useful. LEE) has again expired. conditions, no court of the United States or Yes, where we are talking about a (On request of Mr. FRANK of Massa- other court listed in section 610 shall have small child, maybe a teenager, it is a chusetts, and by unanimous consent, jurisdiction to enter or carry out any pris- very appealing situation. Maybe we Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas was allowed oner release order that would result in the ought to tailor a privilege for that. But to proceed for 1 additional minute.) release from or nonadmission to a prison, on the basis of prison conditions, of any person where we are talking about Ted Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. subject to incarceration, detention, or ad- Kaczynski’s mother and Ted Madam Chairman, will the gentle- mission to a facility because of a conviction Kaczynski, I do not think it is at all woman yield to me? of a felony under the laws of the relevant ju- immediately obvious that we ought to, Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. I yield risdiction, or a violation of the terms or con- on this floor today, to vote to give to the gentleman from Massachusetts. ditions of parole, probation, pretrial release, somebody like that preference. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. or a diversionary program, relating to the The CHAIRMAN. The time of the Madam Chairman, my colleague said commission of a felony under the laws of the relevant jurisdiction. gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. JACK- that there is an exception for criminal, ‘‘(b) DEFINITIONS.—As used in this section— SON-LEE) has expired. but let me read what might be more ‘‘(1) the terms ‘civil action with respect to (By unanimous consent, Ms. JACK- relevant here, the title of her amend- prison conditions,’ ‘prisoner,’ ‘prisoner re- SON-LEE of Texas was allowed to pro- ment as she wrote it: Parent/Child Tes- lease order,’ and ‘prison’ have the meanings ceed for 2 additional minutes.) timonial Privileges in Federal Civil given those terms in section 3626(g) of title Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam and Criminal Proceedings. If the gen- 18; and Chairman, the gentleman is extremely tlewoman in fact intends to exempt ‘‘(2) the term ‘prison conditions’ means convincing when we are talking about criminal, putting ‘‘criminal’’ in the conditions of confinement or the effects of something that is heinous as that of title is not the most artful drafting I actions by government officials on the lives of persons confined in prison. those acts. I think, however, we need have ever seen. (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of to ask the question as to whether or Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Madam sections for chapter 99 of title 28, United not, and a voice rises up, as to whether Chairman, let me close by simply say- States Code, is amended by adding at the end or not we know the status of the inves- ing that I really do believe that we the following new item: tigation and whether or not those in- have made a very strong argument as ‘‘1632. Limitation on prisoner release or- vestigating this heinous crime of the to the sanctity of the parent/child rela- ders.’’. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2273 (c) CONSENT DECREES.— tice, Texas was forced to adopt what is my amendment will set such re- (1) TERMINATION OF EXISTING CONSENT DE- known as the ‘‘nutty release law’’ that straints. CREES.—Any consent decree that was entered mandates good time credit for pris- I presume we will hear the cries of into before the date of the enactment of the Prison Litigation Reform Act of 1995, that is oners. Murderers and drug dealers who court stripping by the opponents of my in effect on the day before the date of the en- should be behind bars are walking the amendment. These cries, however, will actment of this Act, and that provides for streets of our Texas neighborhoods as I come from the same people who voted remedies relating to prison conditions shall speak, thanks to Judge Justice. to limit the jurisdiction of Federal cease to be effective on the date of the enact- Wesley Wayne Miller was convicted courts in the 1990 civil rights bill. ment of this Act. in 1982 of a brutal murder. He served Now let us not forget the pleas of our (2) DEFINTIONS.—As used in this sub- only 9 years of a 25-year sentence for current Chief Justice of the United section— (A) the term ‘‘consent decree’’ has the butchering an 18-year-old Fort Worth States, William Rehnquist. In his 1997 meaning given that term in section 3626(g) of girl. Now, after another crime spree, he year-end report on the Federal judici- title 18, United States Code; and was rearrested. Huey Moe was sen- ary he said, ‘‘I therefore call upon Con- (B) the term ‘‘prison conditions’’ has the tenced to 15 years for molesting a teen- gress to consider legislative proposals meaning given that term in section 1632(c) of aged girl. He is eligible for parole this that will reduce the jurisdiction of the title 28, United States Code, as added by sub- September after serving only 2 years in Federal courts.’’ We should heed Jus- section (a) of this section. prison. Kenneth McDuff was on death tice Rehnquist’s call right here, right Mr. DELAY. Madam Chairman, I just row for murder when his sentence was now. wanted to say that this is a wonderful commuted. He ended up murdering The voters will be watching this debate that we are having. It is great somebody else. vote. A vote against this amendment is to be part of an institution that is ac- In addition to the cost to society of a vote to put prisoners, convicts, drug tually trying to regain some of its au- Judge Justice’s activism, Texas is reel- dealers and rapists on the streets of my thority and responsibility that the ing from the financial impact of Judge colleagues’ congressional districts. Ju- Founding Fathers envisioned in the Justice’s sweeping order. I remember dicial activism threatens the very safe- Constitution of the United States, and back when I was in the State legisla- ty of our children and our constituents, I am offering an amendment with the ture, 1979, the State of Texas spent if in the name of justice murderers and gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. about $8 per day per prisoner to keep rapists are allowed to prowl on our MURTHA) that is, I think, pretty sim- these prisoners. By 1994, with the full streets before they serve their time. It ple. It ends forever the early release of force of Judge Justice’s edict being felt is time to return some sanity to our violent felons and convicted drug deal- in the State of Texas, the State is justice system and keep violent offend- ers by judges who care more about the spending more than $40 every day for ers in jail, and I ask my colleagues to ACLU’s prisoners’ rights wish list than each prisoner. That is a fivefold in- support my amendment. about the Constitution and the safety crease over a period when the State’s Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. of our towns and communities and our Madam Chairman, I move to strike the fellow citizens. prison system barely doubled. All of that money comes out of our families’ requisite number of words. Under the threat of Federal courts, Madam Chairman, I listened to the States are being forced to prematurely pocket. gentleman from Texas describe an release convicts because of what activ- The truth is, no matter how Congress amendment that I would be prepared to ist judges call prison overcrowding. In and State legislatures try to get tough vote for but I do not see it before me. Philadelphia, for instance, Federal on crime, we will not be effective until The gentleman talked about murderers Judge Norma Shapiro has used com- we deal with judicial activism. and rapists walking the streets of our plaints filed by individual inmates, The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The districts, and I do not want that to criminals, convicted criminals, to gain time of the gentleman from Texas (Mr. happen. And if it was an amendment control over the prison system and es- DELAY) has expired. that was limited as the gentleman said, tablish a cap on the number of pris- (By unanimous consent, Mr. DELAY I suspect it would get virtually no op- oners. was allowed to proceed for 5 additional Federal Judge Shapiro put a cap on minutes.) position here, but the amendment is the number of prisoners in Pennsyl- Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, the far broader. It is not limited to mur- vania. To meet that cap she ordered courts have undone almost every major derers and rapists, it is not even lim- the release of 500 prisoners a week, 500 anticrime initiative passed by the leg- ited to people who committed violent prisoners a week. In a 18-month period islative branch. In the 1980’s, as many crimes. It applies to anybody convicted alone, 9,732 arrestees were out on the States passed mandatory minimum under any felony. streets of Philadelphia on pretrial re- sentencing laws that the American Now there are some nonviolent felo- lease because of her prison cap. They people wanted to see happen around nies. There are also situations where were arrested on second charges, in- the country to keep these criminals in prison conditions have been out- cluding 79 murders, 90 rapes, 701 bur- jail, judges checkmated the public by rageous. The gentleman said we should glaries, 959 robberies, 1,113 assaults, imposing prison caps on the amount of not release murderers because of over- 2,215 drug offenses and 2,748 thefts. population that we can hold in prisons. crowding. I agree. But what about peo- How does Judge Shapiro sleep at When this Congress mandated the end ple who might have violated a securi- night? Each one of these crimes was of consent decrees regarding prison ties law or people who might have been committed against a person with a overcrowding in 1995, some courts just guilty of nonsupport, if that were a fel- family, dreaming of a safe and peaceful ignored our mandate. ony, or some other nonviolent felony future, a future that was snuffed out by There is an activist judge behind which we have, insurance fraud. I do a judge who has a perverted view of the each of most of the perverse failures of not like people committing insurance Constitution. today’s justice system, violent offend- fraud, but they are not all murderers Of course Judge Shapiro is not alone. ers serving barely 40 percent of their and rapists. Most of them are probably We are seeing this all over the United sentences. Three and a half million, 31⁄2 not. It is probably kind of a distinction States. There are many other exam- million criminals, most of them repeat in the criminal class. ples. In Texas, my home State, a case offenders, are on the streets today and And it also is not just overcrowding. that dates back all the way back to are on probation or parole. Thirty-five It says prison conditions means condi- 1972, Federal Judge William Wayne percent of all persons arrested for vio- tions of confinement are the effect of Justice took control of the Texas pris- lent crime were on probation, parole or actions by government officials on the on system and dictated changes in pretrial release at the time of their ar- lives of persons confined in prison. If in basic inmate disciplinary practices rest. fact there are situations where particu- that wrested administrative authority Well, the Constitution of the United lar prison officials have behaved in a from staff and resulted in rampant vio- States gives us the power to take back outrageous fashion abusive of people’s lence behind bars. our streets. Article III allows the Con- rights, may even have put these people And under the threats of Judge Jus- gress of the United States to set juris- in danger, and we are talking about tice, under the threats of Judge Jus- dictional restraints on the courts, and nonviolent felons, I am not prepared to H2274 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 say that no judge ever ought to let means something different to me than For that reason, while I would have them out. it does to the gentleman. ‘‘Or’’ gen- voted the amendment the gentleman Now, as I said, if the gentleman had erally means there is something else described, I cannot vote for the gentle- offered the amendment he described, I that is involved. It says these insur- man’s amendment as offered. would not be up on my feet talking ance fraud perpetrators cannot be re- Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas. Mr. about it and I would not expect anyone leased either because of conditions of Chairman, I move to strike the req- else to be. If we were talking about vio- confinement or because of the effects uisite number of words. lent criminals, particularly murderers of actions by government officials on Mr. Chairman, I happen to disagree and rapists, but muggers and others the lives of persons confined in prison. with our previous speaker. The DeLay amendment really corrects a problem who were being released surely for b 1500 overcrowding, I would agree with him. that I have spent most of my political We have an amendment that goes far In other words, if prison officials are career trying to fix. broader. It does not just deal with grossly violating people’s rights, and When I was in the Texas statehouse, overcrowding. It would immunize pris- even people who have committed fraud I spent a lot of time speaking out on officials, as it is written, even by ac- have rights, as we all agree, even if it against the antics of a judge named William Wayne Justice, a Federal tions they took that were violative of is not overcrowded, but if it deals with judge who in 1980, single-handedly took people’s rights and even for nonviolent violations of their rights by conscious acts, one of the remedies cannot be to control of and weakened the Texas criminals. It also is completely retro- release people. prison system, which I think is a little active. It says any order now in effect The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. bit out of line as far as our States is ended, and I think that would be a ROGERS). The time of the gentleman rights policies are concerned. very unwise idea. from Massachusetts (Mr. FRANK) has Judge Justice felt our State pris- Mr. DELAY. Madam Chairman, will expired. oners were cramped and ‘‘unhappy with the gentleman yield? (By unanimous consent, Mr. FRANK of their living conditions,’’ so he forced Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. I yield Massachusetts was allowed to proceed Texas to turn jails into country clubs to the gentleman from Texas. for 1 additional minute.) so that dangerous criminals could be Mr. DELAY. Madam Chairman, I ap- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. more comfortable. He even ordered preciate the gentleman yielding. He Chairman, I do not think where we are Texas to provide these criminals with must be reading a different amendment talking about conscious misbehavior color television. He ordered that 11 per- than I put in. This amendment does that violates the rights of nonviolent cent of Texas prison beds be empty at not affect any court action brought criminals. What we are talking about all times, and mandated that cells against prison officials that might vio- is saying if you have prison officials built for two prisoners only hold one, late the criminals’ rights or even pris- who are consciously abusing the rights and that cells built for four prisoners on conditions. There are other kinds of of nonviolent felons, people who have only hold two. remedies that can come into play here. committed fraud, it has nothing to do Consequently, we have got over 5,000 What we are just saying is do not with overcrowding or violence, under empty beds in the Texas prison system turn felons out, and surely the gen- no circumstances should a judge be because of a Federal judge’s ruling, and tleman is not for turning felons out, in- able to say the remedy is, if you don’t that caused overcrowding and it caused cluding nonviolent felons like drug stop abusing these people, we are going extra expense. These mandates have dealers, out on the street just because to make you let them loose. I don’t done nothing but set criminals free, in- prison conditions may be overcrowded think under all circumstances we crease overcrowding, and waste billions and they could put prisoners in tents. ought to say no to that. of taxpayer dollars. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. No, be- I want everyone to understand it is Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, will the cause the gentleman is wrong in the gentleman yield? our Texas lawmakers that were forced description of his amendment. In the Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. I yield to release hardened criminals on the first place, there are nonviolent felons to the gentleman from Texas. order of a Federal judge. This means other than drug dealers. There are peo- Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I agree that criminals have been released back ple who committed insurance fraud; with the gentleman, but disagree with on to the Texas streets, all because a there are people who cheated on their his interpretation. I have the advan- Federal judge was more concerned taxes, their State taxes. I do not say tage of not having gone to law school. about the comfort of criminals than that under no circumstances should The advantage is such that nothing about the safety of law-abiding citi- they be released because I think they stops the inmates’ rights to bring ac- zens. This amendment will do what the are not the kind of danger that we are tion against prison officials. All we are Texas legislature tried to do and could talking about to the community in the saying here is do not turn these felons near term. The gentleman talked about not; stop Federal judges like William out on the street. Wayne Justice from pushing their murderers and rapists, but it includes The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The agenda at the expense of public safety. nonviolent felons. time of the gentleman from Massachu- This language states in no uncertain Mr. DELAY. I totally agree with the setts (Mr. FRANK) has again expired. terms that Federal judges cannot man- gentleman. (By unanimous consent, Mr. FRANK of date early release of violent criminals. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. And I Massachusetts was allowed to proceed It also nullifies current consent decrees am glad the gentleman from Texas for 1 additional minute.) like the one inflicted on Texas by does, and therefore there is no reason Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. Judge Justice. to interrupt me. Let me just say to my Chairman, I think the issue is not that This is common sense legislation. It friend he should only interrupt me my friend didn’t go to law school, the is long overdue. The people of Texas when he disagrees with me. He need question is in what language did he not have waited 20 years for relief from not interrupt me when he agrees with go to law school, because I am talking this Federal judge. Let us not make me. He should just nod his head and we about English here; not law. What I am them wait any longer. I think it is long will all notice that. talking about is the phrase that says overdue. But I appreciate the agreement. So you cannot release nonviolent felons Mr. Chairman, I urge my colleagues we are now in agreement that we are because of the effects of actions by gov- to support this amendment, because it talking about nonviolent felons, and ernment officials on the lives of per- is going to make America a lot safer by they said including people who may sons confined in prison. keeping your violent criminals behind have been convicted of tax fraud or in- In other words, nothing to do with bars. surance fraud. overcrowding, but conscious abuse of Mr. MANZULLO. Mr. Chairman, I Secondly, though, this does say no people’s rights. I do think in some move to strike the requisite number of release could be a remedy because of cases where you have got that pattern words. conditions of confinement or. Now the of abuse, ordering the release of non- Mr. Chairman, what the House is gentleman says it is only overcrowd- violent felons might be something they doing today, the House of Representa- ing, but the word ‘‘or’’ apparently may want to consider. tives, the People’s House, is so unique April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2275 in history, and it is truly remarkable, courts have gone too far, and that Con- In 1991, in St. Lucie County, which I because what we are doing today is we gress is exercising the jurisdiction and represent, a Fort Pierce police officer, are showing that when the Constitu- the authority envisioned by the found- Danny Parrish, was murdered by an ex- tion was drafted in 1787, that the men ers of this republic in saying we are convict who had been released after who met in Philadelphia in that year going to correct what is wrong with the serving less than a third of his prison envisioned a system of the separation court system. term for auto burglary. Officer Parrish of powers, and they built into the Con- Mr. FOLEY. Mr. Chairman, I move to stopped him for driving the wrong way stitution a mechanism whereby one strike the requisite number of words. on a one-way street. The ex-convict, branch of government could reclaim Mr. Chairman, let me strongly sup- who admitted later he did not want to the authority that had been usurped by port the efforts of the majority whip, go back to prison for violating proba- another branch of government, and the gentleman from Texas (Mr. tion, disarmed Officer Parrish and that is the genius of the Constitution. DELAY), because this amendment goes killed him with his own gun. We can go back to the Declaration of right to the heart of a horrible situa- Now, when are we in America going Independence when Jefferson was asked tion we in Florida have faced. to wake up and recognize the rights of by Benjamin Franklin, also in Phila- In 1993, the Florida Department of victims? I have heard constantly about delphia, to draft that document and to Corrections reported that between Jan- judges stepping in and allowing pris- set forth the reasons for the establish- uary 1, 1987, and October 10, 1991, some oners to smoke in prison, prisoners ment of this republic. One of the rea- 127,486 prisoners were released early being allowed video machines so they sons that Jefferson put in the Declara- from Florida prisons. Within a few can watch TV, prisoners being given tion of Independence is that King years of their early release, they com- weight rooms so they can exercise and George III had obstructed the adminis- mitted over 15,000 violent and property feel comfortable and good about them- tration of justice by refusing assent to crimes, including 346 murders and 185 selves. And the same judges then say laws for establishing judiciary powers. sex offenses. because it is a little crowded, we In other words, it would be up to the Florida tried to stop the early release should let these people out early. program last year, the ‘‘gain time’’ individual colonies, and thus a central So then ultimately, after serving provision, which was created because of government in a new country, to estab- only a third of the time they have been prison overcrowding. But, whoa, the lish and define exactly what those judi- sentenced to, they maim, murder, kill judges said, the courts would not allow cial powers are. our families and our children, and soci- So in the Constitution, under Article them to change it. ety pays greatly for these acts. Society III, Section 1, Congress was given the The courts suggested that since it pays more for the violence on our express power to ordain and establish was given in advance to create or va- street because of early release than we inferior Federal courts, which includes cate prison space, that it was now part could ever pay for the proper construc- the power of vesting them with juris- of their sentence. It did not say when tion of prison facilities. diction, either limited, concurrent, or they were sentenced that they were en- exclusive. titled to it, but because it was a mech- So I urge my colleagues to look very In fact, in a 1943 case, it has been, anism, a management tool created by seriously at this amendment. It is not perhaps, we do not know how many the legislature, that it had to apply to defeating the judges’ power; it is not decades, we have arguments here where every person in prison, no matter what usurping judicial power. It is asserting, Congress is trying to get back from ju- crime they committed, whether it was first and foremost, that victims and diciary powers that judiciary has bounced checks, murder or rape. their families should be given their taken, and in the case of Lockerty ver- Now, who is paying for this type of rights first, not the criminal; that sus Phillips, the court said that Con- thinking? Who pays for this type of when you are sentenced to prison, it gress has the power to withhold juris- thinking in our society? Let me give should mean something. When you are diction from courts in the exact de- you a few examples. given 10 years, it should be 10 years, grees and character which to Congress One is a 21-year-old convicted burglar not 2 years. may seem proper for the public good. who got out of prison last October on When our young people look at the That is what is exciting about the early release. A month later he was fact that people are being sentenced for legislation of the gentleman from charged with kidnapping and murder- 10 years, they should know it is seri- Texas (Mr. DELAY). It takes a look at ing a 78-year-old woman in Avon Park ous. But when you commit a murder Congress, the elected branch, the rep- near my district. He abducted her from and are let out after 3 years of a 10- resentative branch of government, and her home, forced her into the trunk of year sentence; when you are convicted says we are overseeing the court sys- her car, and killed her in an orange of a crime, and told ‘‘don’t worry about tem to bring about a change when grove about 20 miles away. it, it is only a year;’’ in a recent case something has happened in the court Then, there is the 30-year-old man where a young girl killed her child, I system that violates the public good. jailed in 1989 on grand theft and armed understand she may get 21⁄2 years in The public good to which the gen- burglary charges, who was released prison. What a punishment. tleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY) ad- early in 1992 because of prison crowd- What does it say to society, the value dresses himself is the fact that courts ing. Four years later he was charged we place on life. What does it say about have overstepped their boundaries by with murdering the owner of a conven- the law of the land? What does it say to releasing dangerous felons, who go out ience store in West Palm Beach, Flor- the law-abiding citizen? You can go to kill, and to maim, and to peddle ida, part of which I represent. ahead and get away with it, because a drugs to our little children, who ingest ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN PRO judge is going to be worried about your these drugs, and the little innocent TEMPORE comfort in prison; that he will let you ones, my children and children of all The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Our out on the street to maim, murder and Americans, thus become susceptible to guests in the gallery will be advised kill once again? more people who the law enforcement they are guests of the House, but must people have in good faith put away, but not express approval or disapproval to b 1515 which a Federal judge says they should interfere with the activities of the be out. House. I know judges do not do this because So we are here today because the Mr. FOLEY. Mr. Chairman, last they do not care about our commu- Constitution compels us to do so. It month a 30-year-old drifter, jailed in nities, but Congress has to step into would do no good for me to reiterate 1986 for kidnapping and brutally beat- the debate, protect the communities the various travesties that have taken ing a British tourist in Hollywood, we represent, all 435 of them, and do place in America because of what the Florida, but released early in 1986, was our best to suggest that if a prisoner Federal courts have done. But let us charged with first degree murder of a commits a crime, if a person victimizes look upon this day in this Congress as teenager after her partially mutilated another human being, if a person vio- being a responsible Congress and tell- corpse was found in his bathtub in lates a human being, if a person mur- ing the American people that the Miami Beach. ders someone else, that that person H2276 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 should fulfill the full terms of the sen- I just want to remind the gentleman ple will be murdered, 48 women raped, tence meted out by the courts, should that in 1995 we passed a law, signed by and 570 robbed by criminals who have not be granted special benefits, should this President, dictating to these already been caught, convicted, and re- not be given game time, and should be judges that they should vacate these turned to the streets on probation or treated like the criminals that they consent decrees if they have no further early parole. are. constitutional grounds, and these Mr. Chairman, this is more than a I urge the support of the fine amend- judges have found loopholes by which crisis, this is the crime. I believe the ment of the gentleman from Texas (Mr. they can continue. first order of our legal system is to pro- DELAY). Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Let me tect the innocent, and one way we can ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN PRO stop the gentleman in the middle of his do this is to punish the guilty. But we TEMPORE sentence, because that is a big ‘‘if,’’ if cannot protect the innocent or punish The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The there are no further constitutional the guilty by putting criminals back Chair will remind all persons in the grounds. The ones that I am talking on the streets. Yet that is exactly what gallery that they are here as guests of about are where there is a constitu- some judges are doing. the House, and that any manifestation tional ground. And what this amend- Under the guise of legal apologetics, of approval or disapproval of proceed- ment does is say you cannot have a many judges are giving felons and drug ings is in violation of the rules of the remedy where there is a constitutional dealers get-out-of-jail-free cards. For House. basis for the order. So to just kind of example, a U.S. district judge in Phila- Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. gloss over that big ‘‘if’’ in the gentle- delphia imposed a prison cap that had Chairman, I move to strike the req- man’s sentence is a serious matter. the effect of freeing scores of felons uisite number of words. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The and drug dealers who are waiting trial Mr. Chairman, this is a very, very time of the gentleman from North in the prisons. In fact, 600 prisoners a difficult issue to debate, because when Carolina (Mr. WATT) has expired. week were released for over 1 year. one postulates the rights of citizens, (On request of Mr. DELAY, and by What did they do when they got a innocent citizens, against folks who unanimous consent, Mr. WATT of North new lease on life? They committed 79 have been sentenced to prison who are Carolina was allowed to proceed for 1 murders, 959 robberies, 2,215 drug-relat- released, whether they are released for additional minute.) ed crimes, 90 rapes, and over 1,100 as- Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, will the misdemeanors or felonies or whatever saults. This type of judicial activism is gentleman yield? reason, because of prison overcrowding crazy, and it is changing once we pass Mr. WATT of North Carolina. I yield and conditions in prisons, it always the DeLay amendment. to the gentleman from Texas. Mr. Chairman, the American people seems like you are taking sides with Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, first of want criminals to serve the sentences the prisoners, as opposed to taking all, I am not, in my amendment, stop- they are given. They do not want some sides with the innocent people in the ping any other remedies, any other judge overruling the law, the prosecu- street. constitutional remedies or the rights of tors who got them the conviction, or The gentleman from Florida (Mr. inmates that are being mistreated, the jurors who sentenced them. FOLEY) obviously makes a very, very overcrowded, or any other prison con- Mr. Chairman, let us not confuse our powerful argument. But an amendment dition. That is not my amendment. wants with our needs. We all want to which basically says we are going to go My amendment basically is saying to give everyone a second chance, but we back retroactively and undo existing judges, stop finding loopholes to con- absolutely need to ensure that crime consent orders that have been entered tinue your consent decrees, and we are does not pay. I urge my colleagues to into, that retroactively says we are going to eliminate the ‘‘if’’ part about support the DeLay amendment. It is going to undo orders that courts have early release of prisoners. We are not simple, it is smart, and it is a solution. entered in these cases, or even an going to put these criminals back on Mr. MURTHA. Mr. Chairman, I move amendment which, looking forward, the streets. They can have all the other to strike the requisite number of says that even though the Constitution remedies. words. might, and we as a body of people in Mr. WATT of North Carolina. Mr. Mr. Chairman, I agreed to cosponsor our country believe that nobody, no in- Chairman, if in fact the amendment this amendment with the gentleman dividual, ought to be put into condi- was nearly as gentle and kind as the from Texas (Mr. DELAY) because I felt tions where they are subjected to rape gentleman has portrayed it, I think I it was so important for us to send a or disease or whatever by overcrowding could get there with him, but that is message to the court system and to our or failure of supervision, we cannot en- not what the language of this amend- judicial system that, when a person is force that order to protect those peo- ment says. It says, we are undoing sentenced, that person should spend ple, is an amendment which, in my prior consent orders, we are undoing that appropriate time in prison. opinion, goes too far. prior orders, and we are making it im- Now, I realize there may be some de- That is what this amendment does. It possible to address a constitutional ficiencies in this amendment. I realize undoes prior consent orders. It under- violation because there is no remedy if this goes to conference that maybe a mines prior orders, whether they are for it. It is that that I have serious con- few things ought to be changed. But I consent orders or not. Also, it effec- cerns about. think one of the reasons that we do not tively says that where there is a con- Ms. GRANGER. Mr. Chairman, I have as much crime as we had a few stitutional violation there really is no move to strike the requisite number of years ago is because people are staying remedy for that violation, because we words. in jail longer. We put mandatory sen- are not going to provide a constructive Mr. Chairman, I rise today on behalf tences in. remedy for somebody who is put in in- of families, victims and law-abiding I worried about mandatory sen- humane, overcrowded conditions. citizens everywhere to support the Ju- tences, but the results are the crime So while I clearly am uncomfortable, dicial Reform Act of 1998, and particu- rate has dropped dramatically for vio- and if anybody believes that I am sid- larly to support the amendment offered lent crime throughout the country, and ing with prisoners over victims in the by my good friend, the gentleman from I think it is important for all of us to street, I am uncomfortable being in Texas (Mr. DELAY). think about the victims of the crime. that position, but I think this amend- I do so because I believe there is a One way to make sure that they are ment goes too far. time in the life of every problem when separated is to keep them in prison for Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, will the it is large enough to see and yet small the time. gentleman yield? enough to solve. The problem of judi- They spend a lot of time in thinking Mr. WATT of North Carolina. I yield cial activism is one which we can see about how long the sentences ought to to the gentleman from Texas. and we can also solve, if only we have be. If we put them out, drug dealers, a Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I appre- the commitment and the courage to person that commits a violent crime, ciate the gentleman yielding. I under- make it right. out on the street prematurely, there is stand the struggle that the gentleman According to the Bureau of Judicial no question in my mind the crime rate is going through. I appreciate that. Statistics, every day this year 14 peo- will start to go back up again. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2277 So I would urge Members to support The public overwhelmingly supports Gallegly Lipinski Rogers Ganske Livingston Rohrabacher this amendment and to vote over- the policy reflected in the DeLay Gejdenson LoBiondo Ros-Lehtinen whelmingly to send a message that we amendment. It is long overdue. I Gekas Lofgren Rothman do not want people, just because of a strongly urge its adoption. Gephardt Lowey Roukema technicality, overcrowding, to be out Gibbons Lucas Roybal-Allard Mr. PACKARD. Mr. Chairman, I would like Gilchrest Luther Royce in the street before their time that to voice my support for Congressman TOM Gillmor Maloney (CT) Ryun they have spent in prison. DELAY's (R±TX) amendment to the Judicial Gilman Maloney (NY) Salmon Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. Chairman, I Reform Act, which we will be voting upon Goode Manton Sanchez move to strike the requisite number of Goodlatte Manzullo Sandlin shortly. Mr. DELAY's amendment addresses an Goodling Markey Sanford words. issue of growing concernÐthe early release of Gordon Mascara Sawyer (Mr. DOOLITTLE asked and was convicted criminals due to overcrowding in Goss Matsui Saxton given permission to revise and extend Graham McCarthy (MO) Scarborough prisons. Granger McCarthy (NY) Schaefer, Dan his remarks.) By this time we are all well aware of reper- Green McCollum Schaffer, Bob Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. Chairman, I cussions related to judicial activism. Mr. Greenwood McCrery Schumer strongly support the DeLay amend- DELAY's amendment plays an important role in Gutierrez McDade Sensenbrenner ment. I think it is a great amendment, Gutknecht McGovern Sessions curbing this practice by targeting federal Hall (OH) McHale Shadegg and I hope that it survives unscathed judges who order the release of persons con- Hall (TX) McHugh Shaw through both Houses of the Congress. victed of violent or drug related crimes be- Hamilton McInnis Shays This deals with the most fundamen- cause of prison conditions. Uncomfortable Hansen McIntosh Sherman tal obligation of government, the rea- Harman McIntyre Shimkus prison conditions are no excuse for turning Hastert McKeon Shuster son we pay all of the huge amount of dangerous criminals out onto our streets. Hastings (WA) McKinney Sisisky taxes that we are having to pay these Mr. Chairman, I hope that my colleagues Hayworth McNulty Skeen days. That is, it is the job of govern- Hefley Menendez Skelton will join me in voting in favor of the Judicial Hefner Metcalf Slaughter ment to restrain men from injuring one Reform Act and the DeLay Amendment. Herger Mica Smith (MI) another, to quote Thomas Jefferson. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Hill Minge Smith (NJ) It is just unconscionable that these question is on the amendment offered Hilleary Mink Smith (OR) liberal judges, unelected by the people Hinojosa Moakley Smith (TX) by the gentleman from Texas (Mr. Hobson Mollohan Smith, Adam but in office for life, have taken it upon DELAY). Hoekstra Moran (KS) Smith, Linda themselves, in some cases, to inflict Holden Moran (VA) Snowbarger The question was taken; and the Hooley Morella Snyder this kind of injury upon a community. Chairman pro tempore announced that Think of the thousands and thousands Horn Murtha Solomon the ayes appeared to have it. Hostettler Myrick Souder of lives that have been ruined, in many Houghton Nadler Spence cases, or severely impacted in others, RECORDED VOTE Hoyer Neal Stabenow by the types of crimes that have been Mr. DELAY. Mr. Chairman, I demand Hulshof Nethercutt Stearns a recorded vote. Hunter Neumann Stenholm committed. Hutchinson Ney Strickland We did a study in our State legisla- A recorded vote was ordered. Hyde Northup Stump ture years ago, and it was a pretty es- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- Inglis Norwood Stupak tablished fact, as a result of the study, ant to House Resolution 408, the mini- Jefferson Nussle Sununu Jenkins Ortiz Talent that two-thirds of the forcible-sex felo- mum time for electronic voting on the John Oxley Tauscher nies are committed by repeat offend- Lofgren amendment, if ordered, with- Johnson (CT) Packard Tauzin ers, so that by dealing with this popu- out intervening business, will be 5 min- Johnson (WI) Pallone Taylor (MS) utes. Johnson, E. B. Pappas Taylor (NC) lation and incarcerating them for long Johnson, Sam Parker Thomas periods of time, we would dramatically The vote was taken by electronic de- Jones Pascrell Thornberry reduce this type of crime. Indeed, that vice, and there were—ayes 367, noes 52, Kanjorski Pastor Thune has been the case. not voting 13, as follows: Kaptur Paul Thurman Kasich Pease Tiahrt In California and other States where [Roll No. 105] Kelly Peterson (MN) Torres they have had mandatory sentences AYES—367 Kennelly Peterson (PA) Traficant and where they have long terms, we Kildee Petri Turner Abercrombie Brown (FL) Davis (VA) Kim Pickering Upton have spent an awful lot of resources in Ackerman Brown (OH) Deal Kind (WI) Pickett Vento California locking people up, and we Aderholt Bryant DeFazio King (NY) Pitts Visclosky have overcrowded those prisons as Allen Bunning DeLauro Kingston Pombo Walsh Andrews Burr DeLay much as we could, and I am glad that Kleczka Pomeroy Wamp Archer Burton Deutsch Klink Porter Watkins we have, because it has made our Armey Buyer Diaz-Balart Klug Portman Watts (OK) streets safer. Bachus Callahan Dickey Knollenberg Poshard Weldon (FL) We have now about 130,000 people in- Baesler Calvert Dicks Kolbe Price (NC) Weldon (PA) Baker Camp Dingell Kucinich Pryce (OH) Weller carcerated in the State of California Baldacci Canady Doggett LaFalce Quinn Wexler alone. Look at our crime rates. They Ballenger Cannon Dooley LaHood Radanovich Weygand have been dropping dramatically. So Barcia Capps Doolittle Lampson Rahall White Barr Cardin Doyle taking off the streets this kind of of- Lantos Ramstad Whitfield Barrett (NE) Castle Dreier Largent Redmond Wicker fender was exactly the right thing to Bartlett Chabot Duncan Latham Regula Wise do. Barton Chambliss Dunn LaTourette Reyes Wolf Yet to have some isolated, arrogant, Bass Chenoweth Edwards Lazio Riggs Woolsey Becerra Christensen Ehlers liberal, unelected district court judge Leach Riley Wynn Bentsen Clayton Ehrlich Levin Rivers Young (AK) turning these people loose because of Bereuter Clement Emerson Lewis (CA) Rodriguez Young (FL) some benighted belief in upholding Berman Coble Engel Lewis (KY) Roemer Berry Coburn English Linder Rogan some prisoner’s constitutional rights is Bilbray Collins Ensign totally wrong. Bilirakis Combest Eshoo NOES—52 Bishop Occasionally, there will be a conflict Condit Etheridge Barrett (WI) Frank (MA) McDermott Blagojevich between the constitutional right of the Cook Everett Bonior Furse Meehan Bliley Cooksey Ewing Brown (CA) Hilliard Meeks (NY) prisoner and between the right of the Blumenauer Costello Farr Campbell Hinchey Millender- Blunt public not to have dangerous criminals Cox Fazio Carson Jackson (IL) McDonald Boehlert out in the street. The amendment of Coyne Foley Clyburn Jackson-Lee Miller (CA) Boehner Cramer Forbes Conyers (TX) Oberstar the gentleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY) Bonilla Crane Ford Davis (IL) Kennedy (MA) Olver simply says, Judge, do not make your Bono Crapo Fossella DeGette Kennedy (RI) Owens Borski remedy letting them go. You have Cubin Fowler Delahunt Kilpatrick Payne Boswell other remedies. One of them is not to Cummings Fox Evans Lee Pelosi Boucher Cunningham Franks (NJ) Fawell Lewis (GA) Rangel say, let these dangerous people back Boyd Danner Frelinghuysen Filner Martinez Rush out on the street. Brady Davis (FL) Frost H2278 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 Sabo Stark Velazquez Rahall Serrano Traficant Whitfield Wise Young (AK) Sanders Stokes Waters Rangel Skelton Velazquez Wicker Wolf Young (FL) Scott Thompson Watt (NC) Reyes Slaughter Vento Serrano Tierney Waxman Rodriguez Stabenow Visclosky NOT VOTING—14 Skaggs Towns Yates Rothman Stark Waters Bateman Gonzalez Paxon Roybal-Allard Stokes Watt (NC) Clay Hastings (FL) Snowbarger NOT VOTING—13 Rush Strickland Waxman Davis (FL) Istook Spratt Bateman Hastings (FL) Paxon Sabo Stupak Weller Dixon Meek (FL) Tanner Clay Istook Spratt Sanchez Tauscher Weygand Fattah Miller (FL) Dixon Meek (FL) Tanner Sanders Taylor (MS) Woolsey Fattah Miller (FL) Sandlin Thompson Wynn b 1603 Gonzalez Obey Sanford Thurman Yates Mr. SAWYER changed his vote from Schumer Torres ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ b 1552 NOES—256 Mr. ABERCROMBIE changed his vote Messrs. BARRETT of Wisconsin, Aderholt Gibbons Nussle from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ T0WNS, MILLER of California, Allen Gilchrest Oxley So the amendment was rejected. SKAGGS, and TIERNEY changed their Archer Gillmor Packard The result of the vote was announced Armey Gilman Pappas as above recorded. vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ Bachus Goode Parker Messrs. RODRIGUEZ, JEFFERSON, Baker Goodlatte Pease PERSONAL EXPLANATION SHAW, REYES, and FORD changed Ballenger Goodling Peterson (PA) Mr. DAVIS of Florida. Mr. Chairman, Barr Goss Petri during roll call vote 106, I was unavoid- their vote from ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Barrett (NE) Graham Pickering ably detained. Had I been present, I So the amendment was agreed to. Barrett (WI) Granger Pickett The result of the vote was announced Bartlett Greenwood Pitts would have voted ‘‘aye’’ on the amend- as above recorded. Barton Gutknecht Pombo ment offered by the gentlewoman from Bass Hall (TX) Porter AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MS. LOFGREN Bentsen Hamilton California (Ms. LOFGREN). Portman Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I move to The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Bereuter Hansen Pryce (OH) Bilbray Hastert Quinn strike the last word. ROGERS). The pending business is the Bilirakis Hastings (WA) Radanovich (Mr. HYDE asked and was given per- demand for a recorded vote on the Bliley Hayworth Ramstad Blunt Hefley mission to revise and extend his re- amendment offered by the gentle- Redmond Boehlert Herger marks.) woman from California (Ms. LOFGREN) Regula Boehner Hill Mr. Chairman, at this stage, I was on which further proceedings were Riggs Bonilla Hilleary about to offer an amendment. I will not postponed and on which the noes pre- Bono Hobson Riley Boswell Hoekstra Rivers offer the amendment, but I think it is vailed by voice vote. Roemer The Clerk will designate the amend- Boyd Holden important to explain what kind of an Brady Horn Rogan amendment it was and why I am not ment. Rogers Bryant Hostettler going to offer it. The Clerk designated the amend- Bunning Houghton Rohrabacher Ros-Lehtinen Mr. Chairman, there are not many of ment. Burr Hoyer Burton Hulshof Roukema us, a narrow band of Members, but RECORDED VOTE Buyer Hunter Royce there are some on both sides of the The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. A re- Callahan Hutchinson Ryun Calvert Hyde Salmon aisle who feel that we mistreat in corded vote has been demanded. Camp Inglis Sawyer terms of cost-of-living allowances our A recorded vote was ordered. Canady Jenkins Saxton Federal judiciary. Now, that is a poi- The vote was taken by electronic de- Cannon John Scarborough sonous subject in some quarters, be- vice, and there were—ayes 162, noes 256, Cardin Johnson (CT) Schaefer, Dan Castle Johnson, Sam Schaffer, Bob cause judge bashing is a universal not voting 14, as follows: Chabot Jones Scott sport. But it is a fact, of all the govern- [Roll No 106] Chambliss Kasich Sensenbrenner ment employees in the galaxy, the only Chenoweth Kelly AYES—162 Sessions Christensen Kim Shadegg group that does not get an automatic Abercrombie Evans LoBiondo Coble Kingston Shaw cost-of-living increase is the Federal Ackerman Farr Lofgren Coburn Kleczka Shays judiciary. Andrews Fazio Lowey Collins Klug Sherman There is a law, it is called Section Baesler Filner Luther Combest Knollenberg Shimkus 140, that requires a specific vote before Baldacci Ford Maloney (CT) Cook Kolbe Shuster Barcia Fox Maloney (NY) Cooksey Kucinich Sisisky any Federal judge gets a cost-of-living Becerra Frost Markey Cox LaHood Skaggs allowance. Not a pay raise, a cost-of- Berman Furse Martinez Cramer Largent Skeen living allowance. Even ourselves get an Berry Gejdenson Mascara Crane Latham Smith (MI) Bishop Gephardt Matsui Crapo LaTourette automatic cost-of-living allowance. Smith (NJ) Blagojevich Gordon McCarthy (NY) Cubin Lazio Smith (OR) Under the law, it can be reversed by Blumenauer Green McDade Cunningham Levin Smith (TX) vote. And, of course, sometimes we suc- Bonior Gutierrez McDermott Danner Lewis (CA) Smith, Adam Borski Hall (OH) McKinney Davis (VA) Lewis (KY) cumb to the penurious complaints of Smith, Linda Boucher Harman McNulty Deal Linder Members and deny ourselves a pay Snyder Brown (CA) Hefner Meehan DeLay Lipinski raise. But we must take affirmative ac- Brown (FL) Hilliard Meeks (NY) Dickey Livingston Solomon Brown (OH) Hinchey Menendez Dicks Lucas Souder tion to do that. Campbell Hinojosa Millender- Dingell Manton Spence Not so with the Federal judges. The Capps Hooley McDonald Doggett Manzullo Stearns only way they can get a cost-of-living Stenholm Carson Jackson (IL) Miller (CA) Doolittle McCarthy (MO) allowance is by us voting them one. I Clayton Jackson-Lee Minge Dreier McCollum Stump Clement (TX) Mink Duncan McCrery Sununu think isolating Federal judges from all Clyburn Jefferson Mollohan Dunn McGovern Talent of the other employees in the Federal Condit Johnson (WI) Murtha Ehlers McHale Tauzin Government is wrong, it is mean-spir- Conyers Johnson, E. B. Nadler Ehrlich McHugh Taylor (NC) Costello Kanjorski Neal Emerson McInnis Thomas ited, it is unfair. And I do believe the Coyne Kaptur Oberstar English McIntosh Thornberry quality of justice, which is not of the Cummings Kennedy (MA) Obey Ensign McIntyre Thune highest I hasten to add, depends on the Davis (IL) Kennedy (RI) Olver Everett McKeon Tiahrt caliber of the people administering DeFazio Kennelly Ortiz Ewing Metcalf Tierney DeGette Kildee Owens Fawell Mica Towns that justice; and that is the judges, Delahunt Kilpatrick Pallone Foley Moakley Turner male and female, throughout the land. DeLauro Kind (WI) Pascrell Forbes Moran (KS) Upton We penalize them because they are Deutsch King (NY) Pastor Fossella Moran (VA) Walsh Diaz-Balart Klink Paul Fowler Morella Wamp Federal judges and we are mad at this Dooley LaFalce Payne Frank (MA) Myrick Watkins judge or that judge for a dumb decision Doyle Lampson Pelosi Franks (NJ) Nethercutt Watts (OK) and, so, we are going to have the whole Edwards Lantos Peterson (MN) Frelinghuysen Neumann Weldon (FL) system rigged so they are different Engel Leach Pomeroy Gallegly Ney Weldon (PA) Eshoo Lee Poshard Ganske Northup Wexler from everybody else. I think that is un- Etheridge Lewis (GA) Price (NC) Gekas Norwood White fair. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2279 Now, I have proposed in this bill a ju- governmental class, should be able to How can we do any less than to com- dicial reform bill to remove the re- be entitled to these very modest cost- pensate them for this high calling? quirement that Federal judges could of-living increases that the rest of peo- So I would just offer to work with not get a cost-of-living increase with- ple that serve in the government enjoy. the Chairman. I appreciate his position out a vote to remove that. I learned I appreciate the efforts of the gen- in terms of the overall bill. very late in the day before I was to ap- tleman. b 1615 pear before the Committee on Rules Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield to that the rule that would be proposed the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. But I do believe that we need to have would be self-executing and would de- HOYER). further discussions on this issue and lete Section 9 of my bill, which was my Mr. HOYER. Mr. Chairman, I thank work through it so that we can have amendment to provide for treating the distinguished member of the Com- the quality of the judiciary that we Federal judges like everybody else on mittee on the Judiciary for yielding. would like to have and ensure that cost-of-living allowances. I was upset There are not many, there are some there is adequate compensation out of at that and not having any notifica- but not many, who have stood on this the way of the politics. tion. floor and either voted for or advocated Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield to But, in any event, I was informed for the pay raises not only for Federal the gentleman from Massachusetts that the reason my bill was going to employees but for Members of Congress (Mr. FRANK). have that part deleted was that I was than I. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. creating an entitlement and we do not I, however, in this instance, although Chairman, I rise to offer my support create entitlements that way. Well, understanding the concern that some for the amendment that will now not there are ways to handle that, and one have with respect to impact on Mem- be offered. But I want to express my is to subject this change to appro- bers’ pay, want to strongly join the admiration to the gentleman from Illi- priated funds. That would cure that. chairman of the committee in his com- nois. Taking the position he is taking But nobody was interested in helping ments with respect to delinking. so vigorously is not an easy one around me do that in the rule. And I was told Very frankly, my friends, this has to here. But I hope Members will listen to if I offered an amendment to that ef- do with whether or not the Congress of what he said, separate out views that fect on the floor, even though this is an the United States has either the cour- Members may have on particular open amendment, that this would not age or judgment to stand and do what judges and particular decisions from be germane. I think the overwhelming majority the more important question. Well, we took steps to see that it voted to do back in 1989, and that is We all agree that there is going to be would be germane by redrafting it. Cer- take a cost-of-living adjustment, not a Federal law. We agree that there is tain amendments were adopted that pay raise, but a cost-of-living adjust- going to be Federal criminal law and broadened the purview of the statute. ment to keep pay even. That is what a Federal civil law. We certainly all But that encountered serious resist- cost-of-living adjustment does. It keeps agree, I hope, that we want our con- ance. And so, the upshot of all of this pay even. stituents well served by thoughtful, in- folderol about people nobody cares a Now, if we think we ought not to do telligent people. great deal about, the Federal judiciary, that for ourselves, what the Chairman We want people who are at the top of treating them equally with everybody is saying, we ought not to tie in others the profession in temperament, and in- else, although we pretend to support to that same position, which in my telligence, and ability. Paying them as equal justice for all, the upshot of it is, opinion relates not to the equity of pay little as we do is a mistake. We are not if I persist in my efforts, the bill will but relates all to politics. I understand going to get justice on the cheap that go down. And I do not want the bill to that. I criticize no one for that. But I way, and we do not serve well this go down. was going to support the Chairman’s cause of justice for our constituents. I think this is a good bill. There are inclusion of the delinking in the bill. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. some good things in this. And, there- Many on my side have not have done ROGERS). The time of the gentleman fore, I have agreed not to offer my that, Mr. Chairman, as my colleagues from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) has expired. amendment, to bite my lip, and to take know. And, frankly, some of my (On request of Mr. Frank of Massa- the unfair, in my judgment, treatment strongest allies on the other side on chusetts, and by unanimous consent, of an issue that deserves debate on the the pay issue would not have supported Mr. HYDE was allowed to proceed for 1 floor in the vote. it. But I think it is wrong that we con- additional minute.) I understand why people do not want tinue to keep the judiciary tied to the Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. this change to occur, because it helps political vagaries of what this body is Chairman, will the gentleman yield to us get a pay raise if we can say the willing to do for itself. me? judges are being held back, too. But I Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield to Mr. HYDE. I yield to the gentleman do not see why economic politics the gentlewoman from Texas (Ms. from Massachusetts, certainly. should deny one group of Federal em- JACKSON-LEE). Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. We do ployees, with all their warts and their Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. not serve the cause of justice by con- flaws, equal treatment. Chairman, I thank the Chairman for fusing unhappiness with particular The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. yielding. judges and particular decisions with ROGERS). The time of the gentleman I would like to add my concern and the functions of the judiciary. The gen- from Illinois (Mr. HYDE) has expired. willingness to go the extra mile on tleman is making a valiant effort to (By unanimous consent, Mr. HYDE what I think is an important and cru- protect that function. I hope that in was allowed to proceed for 5 additional cial issue: Are we going to have the some other context those efforts are minutes.) best judicial branch this Nation can af- more successful. I regret, although I Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I yield to ford? And I, too, supported the effort of understand fully, the situation in the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. the Chairman to reflect on our appre- which he found himself, that we will CONYERS), the ranking member. ciation and respect for the judiciary not be able to vote on it now. (Mr. CONYERS asked and was given and the difficulty of their job and posi- I will say, as an aside, this does make permission to revise and extend his re- tion and, likewise, as a newer Member, it an easier decision for me because, marks.) think that we can defend COLAs no had the gentleman offered the amend- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I matter who it happens to before, unfor- ment and had it been succeeded, I thank the chairman of the Judiciary tunately, politics do get in the way. would have been conflicted, but now I for yielding. Just about a year ago, one of my sen- can vote against what I think is kind I join my colleague in his sentiments ior judges, Judge Norman Black, who, of a silly bill without any problem. and point out that this is going to take unfortunately, passed away, came and AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. CONYERS a considerable amount of work to ac- made an eloquent argument, not for Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I offer complish this delinking. But I think self, but for the standing and the qual- an amendment. the time has come that judges, as a ity and the excellence of the judiciary. The Clerk read as follows: H2280 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 Amendment offered by Mr. CONYERS: ton Act, and the securities laws per- that he is trying to protect American Add the following at the end: mitting service wherever the defendant interests. But it is my concern for SEC. 12. FOREIGN JURISDICTION AND PROCESS. can be found. which I believe that there is a strong (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 113 of title 28, Finally, my amendment ensures that basis that the actual impact of this United States Code, is amended by adding at foreign persons are subject to the same could actually be to harm American in- the end the following new section: rules of discovery as our own citizens terests around the world and to subject ‘‘§ 1697. Foreign jurisdiction; service of proc- and corporations when they are sued American companies, American citi- ess; compliance with rules of discovery for wrongdoing. Currently, Americans zens doing business in other countries ‘‘(a) FOREIGN JURISDICTION AND PROCESS.— are subject to a cumbersome discovery to retaliatory action in response to our In any civil action for harm sustained in the process which requires involvement of enactment of this amendment. United States, that is brought in a Federal foreign courts and is subject to foreign In light of those concerns, and with court against a defendant located outside the laws that are designed to thwart dis- the recognition of the gentleman’s United States, the court in which the action is brought shall have jurisdiction over such covery process. good faith in offering this, I would defendant if the defendant knew or reason- Let us continue to create a level strongly urge the Members of the ably should have known that its conduct playing field so that our American House to reject the amendment, but I would cause harm in the United States. companies are not, in fact, disadvan- would for myself certainly offer to the Process in such civil action may be served taged by foreign competitors. It will gentleman to work with him on this wherever the defendant is located, has an also help ensure justice for U.S. citi- issue and to see if there may be a way agent, or transacts business. zens that might be harmed by a foreign that we can strike an appropriate bal- ‘‘(b) COMPLIANCE WITH RULES OF DISCOV- product. ance where we can help protect Amer- ERY.—In any action described in subsection When a foreign automobile is defec- ican interests without inviting retalia- (a), any party who is a citizen or national of tive, or when fruit imported from out a foreign country shall comply with the tion that could be harmful. rules governing the conduct of discovery in of the country causes widespread dis- Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, will the the same manner and to the same extent as ease, or when a halogen lamp made gentleman yield? a party that is a citizen of the United States, overseas but used in this country ex- Mr. CANADY of Florida. I am happy except that the deposition of a person who is plodes, we need to make sure that to yield to the gentleman from Colo- a citizen or national of a foreign country there is some form of accountability, rado. may be taken only by leave of the court on whether the defendant is located with- Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, I just such terms as the court prescribes.’’. in the United States or not. was curious because I was tracking, I (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of So I urge, again, for the favorable think, the gentleman’s logic in this. It sections for chapter 113 of title 28, United consideration of the amendment. seems to me it might extend then to, States Code, is amended by adding at the end Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- the following new item: for instance, opposing the Helms-Bur- man, I move to strike the last word. ton legislation which has certain ‘‘1697. Foreign jurisdiction; service of proc- Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to extraterritorial effects that run into ess; compliance with rules of the amendment offered by the gen- discovery.’’. serious opposition from our friends tleman from Michigan. This is an around the world. Mr. CONYERS (during the reading). amendment which was considered by Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- the full Committee on the Judiciary man, I thank the gentleman for his in- sent that the amendment be considered and was not adopted. It is also an sight on that issue. I would suggest to as read and printed in the RECORD. amendment that was considered by the the gentleman from Colorado that The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Is full House 3 years ago, I understand, there are extraordinary considerations there objection to the request from the when it was offered as an amendment involved there which the House has de- gentleman of Michigan? to the product liability reform bill. It bated. The House has spoken on that There was no objection. was defeated then. I understand there issue along with the Senate, and I Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I used may have been a conflicting action on might also add along with the adminis- to say that my amendment is simple a motion to instruct conferees. tration. and should be noncontroversial, but I I think it is important for the Mem- Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, I move have stopped doing that lately. But bers to focus on the potential impact of to strike the requisite number of this is not a complicated amendment. this amendment. I share the concern of words. It changes title 28 to provide for serv- the gentleman from Michigan that we Mr. Chairman, I yield to the distin- ice of process against actions brought act in such a way that we can help en- guished gentleman from Michigan (Mr. against defendant corporations located sure that American companies are not CONYERS), the ranking member. outside of the United States. It is an subjected to unfair foreign competi- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I amendment that has succeeded before tion. But I think we also have to be would want to say to my friend from on a couple of occasions, once in a bi- very concerned about the potential re- Florida, we need to work on this some partisan vote, and the other in a mo- taliation by foreign nations if we adopt more, but what more work does the tion to instruct conferees. a provision such as this, that that is a gentleman have in mind? This is no dif- It responds to the problem of service primary concern, I think, that should ferent from the committee amend- to a foreign corporation by creating a move us to oppose the gentleman’s ment. We have gone through this in the nationwide contacts test whenever a amendment and see that it is not Committee on the Judiciary. That is foreign defendant is sued in Federal adopted. the only way it got out to the floor. court if it knew or reasonably should The extent to which American stat- Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- have known that its conduct would utes apply to foreign nationals already man, will the gentleman yield? cause harm in this country. is a serious point of contention in our Mr. SKAGGS. I yield to the gen- This is not a new test. It has been re- foreign relations. I believe it is impor- tleman from Florida. peatedly upheld by our courts and is in tant that we proceed cautiously in this Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- the law already and for other activi- area. I think additional caution is indi- man, it is true we went through it in ties. It is similar to the standard cated due to the fact that this amend- the Committee on the Judiciary, and adopted last Congress when we amend- ment has not been the subject of full the amendment was defeated. It was re- ed the Foreign Service Immunities Act consideration in hearings. jected by the committee. Obviously, to permit actions against terrorist I agree with the gentleman that this that is why we are here debating it States to proceed in this country. is an area for us to look at, but I do not today. Secondly, we provide for worldwide think that we have adequately evalu- Mr. CONYERS. Yes, it was defeated service of process. Presently, a big ated this in order to make sure that we in the committee; but with no deroga- problem with service of process is that are striking an appropriate balance tory reflection on the committee. It each nation requires different methods that is not going to end up actually was passed in the House by a vote of 258 for process. A uniform worldwide serv- harming American interests. to 166, and then it was approved by an ice will fix this problem, and is consist- I respect the intentions of the gen- even larger motion to instruct con- ent with our other laws like the Clay- tleman from Michigan. I understand ferees by 256 to 142, February 29, 1996. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2281 If the gentlemen are suggesting that proceedings on the amendment offered sensitivity training for teachers on I have got to pass an amendment in the by the gentleman from Michigan will how to keep prayer out of schools. Committee on the Judiciary before I be postponed. In Dekalb County, Alabama, which I can pass an amendment that has al- The point of no quorum is considered am privileged to represent, the Fourth ready passed on the floor, we maybe withdrawn. Congressional District, Judge DeMent ought to reconsider the way that Con- b 1630 has been decided to be a legislator and gress works. Notwithstanding the appropriate from the Federal bench. He Members in the committee, this is a AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. ADERHOLT ordered county school funds that very popular motion. Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, I should be going to the classrooms to go Let us talk about the problems that offer an amendment. to pay for court-appointed monitors one might examine here. First of all, I The Clerk read as follows: who will go into the schools and to do not want to put the gentleman into Amendment offered by Mr. ADERHOLT: make sure that there is no prayer. a not wanting to protect American in- Page 8, line 15, insert ‘‘or to disburse any Although I disagree with Judge De- terests like the majority of us do. I funds to remedy the deprivation of a right Ment’s ruling, there may be some here under the Constitution,’’ after ‘‘tax,’’. know he does. I would argue that for Page 8, line 21, strike ‘‘or assessment’’ and today who agree with it, but when a anybody. But there is no retaliation. insert ‘‘assessment, or disbursement’’. Federal judge has free rein to take con- We are the ones that are being dis- Page 9, strike lines 1 through 24 and insert trol and take local school funds away advantaged already. the following: from local officials and then use them What I am doing is trying to level ‘‘(C) the tax or assessment will not con- to pay for whatever he deems nec- the playing field. The fact of the mat- tribute to or exacerbate the deprivation in- essary, that is going too far. We need ter is that Americans cannot reach for- tended to be remedied, including through its to have checks and balances. Our Na- eign corporations because we are tied effect on property valves or otherwise; tion was founded on this principle, and ‘‘(D) plans submitted to the court by State up by their laws of service, their laws and local authorities will not effectively re- unfortunately we have drifted far away of discovery, their laws of bringing dress the deprivations at issue; and from this. Taxation without represen- them into litigation. ‘‘(E) the interests of State and local au- tation has been a cause for revolt in All I am saying is that foreign cor- thorities in managing their affairs are not this country since the beginning of the porations, if and when they may be the usurped, in violation of the Constitution, by American Revolution, and we are still subject of litigation, would be subject the proposed imposition, increase, levying, fighting this battle today. to no less rules of procedure than or assessment. This amendment that I am offering American corporations. ‘‘(2) The limitation contained in paragraph today would re-insert and clarify the (1) shall apply only to any order or settle- How that would antagonize a foreign ment which— original language in section 5 of H.R. corporation benefiting from American ‘‘(A) expressly directs any State, or politi- 1252 to ensure that certain criteria are sales, and by the way, guess who buys cal subdivision of a State, to impose, in- met before the courts can disburse ex- the most from everybody in the world? crease, levy, or assess any tax or disburse isting local and State taxpayer dollars So there is no way that we could make any funds to remedy the deprivation of a in constitutional cases. The underlying them angry and they would take their right under the Constitution; or bill has stated that a judge must meet products away from us. I do not think ‘‘(B) will necessarily require a State, or po- certain criteria in order to raise or as- that is going to really work. So please, litical subdivision of a State, to impose, in- sess taxes. My amendment will give crease, levy, or assess any tax or disburse please, sir, realize that this is very any funds to remedy the deprivation of a Federal judges the same pause for critical to American citizens, our con- right under the Constitution. thought before using existing State stituents, who are trying to seek some ‘‘(3) If the court finds that the conditions and local revenues in constitutional recovery. set forth in paragraph (1) have been satisfied, cases. Now, it just occurred to me, I men- it shall enter an order incorporating that This amendment does not say a Fed- tioned halogen lamps. You know, the finding, and that order shall be subject to eral judge can never use State and greatest jazz musician in America, immediate interlocutory de novo review. local funds, it merely states that be- aged 90, Lionel Hampton, had his whole Page 10, line 7, insert after ‘‘tax,’’ the fol- fore he acts he must make sure that he lowing: ‘‘and any person or entity that is a apartment destroyed because of a halo- resident of the State or political subdivision is doing the right thing. gen lamp. I do not know whether it was that would be required to disburse funds An unelected official should not be made in or out of the U.S., but there under paragraph (1) shall have the right to allowed to impose a tax on the people was going to be a big suit, and they, intervene in any proceeding concerning such without first giving careful consider- fortunately, resolved it. disbursement,’’. ation to their actions. Likewise, if a But if it had gone to litigation, if it Page 10, line 16, insert ‘‘, or disburse the Federal judge takes away local re- had been a foreign corporation, Lionel funds,’’ after ‘‘tax’’. sources to enforce a ruling, especially Hampton may not live long enough to Page 10, line 21, insert ‘‘, or the disburse- in constitutional cases, there need to ment of funds,’’ after ‘‘tax’’. ever see anything happen to it, because Page 10, line 25, insert ‘‘or the disburse- be protections built into the system to he would have to go along with the ment of funds, as the case may be’’ after ensure that judges do not overstep civil rules of procedure for whatever ‘‘tax’’. their bounds and make decisions that company, for whatever country the Page 11, line 10, insert ‘‘, or a disbursement are clearly out of the scope of their au- company originated in. of funds that is made,’’ after ‘‘imposed’’. thority. All I am saying is let us have every- Mr. ADERHOLT (during the reading). Using existing funds collected from body play by the same set of rules. So Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- honest taxpaying citizens for purposes if we could get another vote on it, and sent that the amendment be considered that a judge who has clearly over everyone is of the same opinion that as read and printed in the RECORD. stepped his bounds, they should be pro- they were 2 years ago, 1 year ago, I The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. hibited, and that is what my amend- would be very grateful. ROGERS). Is there objection to the re- ment aims to do. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The quest of the gentleman from Alabama? I urge my colleagues to put a stop to question is on the amendment offered There was no objection. the court systems in America that are by the gentleman from Michigan (Mr. Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, running amok and vote in favor of my CONYERS). today I have come to the House floor to amendment to H.R. 1252. The question was taken; and the call for an end to the unlimited power The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Chairman pro tempore announced that of Federal judges to legislate from the question is on the amendment offered the noes appeared to have it. Federal bench and then send State and by the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I de- local taxpayers the bill. I want to ADERHOLT). mand a recorded vote, and pending make certain that Federal judges like The question was taken; and the that, I make the point of order that a some in Alabama, like Judge Ira De- Chairman pro tempore announced that quorum is not present. Ment, so they cannot use the people’s the ayes appeared to have it. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- hard-earned tax dollars for things like Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, I de- ant to House Resolution 408, further court-appointed prayer monitors and mand a recorded vote. H2282 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- We are all well aware that agencies in connection with the Jackson-Lee ant to House Resolution 408, further in the United States Government are amendment that was offered earlier, proceedings on the amendment offered involved in litigation routinely around obviously the gentleman’s amendment by the gentleman from Alabama (Mr. the country involving all manner of is more restricted in that it focuses on ADERHOLT) will be postponed. important public issues, whether settlements involving the Government AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. SKAGGS Superfund matters, consumer products of the United States, whereas the Jack- Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, I offer issues, whatever. Frequently these son-Lee amendment was much broader an amendment. cases are settled and the judge consid- than that. But, notwithstanding that, I The Clerk read as follows: ering the settlement is requested to am concerned that this amendment would in its present form serve to dis- Amendment offered by Mr. SKAGGS: seal the settlement; that is, block any At the end of the bill, add the following public disclosure. The reason for seal- courage settlement of cases by the gov- new section: ing these settlements can range from ernment and could result in the disclo- SEC. COURT SETTLEMENT SUNSHINE. just avoiding embarrassment to pro- sure of information which should not (a) SHORT TITLE.—This section may be tecting trade secrets and a number of be disclosed, which could cause unnec- cited as the ‘‘Federal Court Settlements things, some of them quite legitimate essary embarrassment to innocent in- Sunshine Act of 1998.’’ and offering a compelling public inter- dividuals. (b) REQUIREMENTS REGARDING SETTLEMENT est reason for sealing the information. There is also a potential, as the gen- OF CASES.—Chapter 111 of Title 28, United But I think it is important and there- tleman recognized, for disclosure of States Code, is amended by adding at the end fore this amendment would create a proprietary information. I believe the the following: gentleman’s position would be that his ‘‘SEC. 1661. PUBLIC AVAILABILITY OF SETTLE- presumption that in cases in which the MENTS OF CASES. United States Government is a party, amendment would not require the dis- ‘‘Any settlement made of a civil action to that the public’s right to know should closure of proprietary information. I which the United States, an agency or de- be respected, again absent a presen- am not certain that that is clear from partment thereof, or an officer or employee tation of reasons to seal a settlement the terms of the amendment, however, thereof in his or her official capacity, is a and absent a determination by the so that is a concern. real party in interest, shall not be sealed, court on a reasonable basis that there I think another point to make in con- but shall be made available for public inspec- is good reason to withhold the terms of nection with this is that the Civil tion, unless the court determines that there Rules Advisory Committee of the Judi- is a compelling public interest in limiting the settlement from the public. This is the public’s business. Often large sums cial Conference has recommended that such availability. Any such determination there be no changes to rule 26(c) re- shall be made in writing and shall explain of money or important matters of pub- the basis for the determination.’’ lic policy can be at stake, so I think it garding protective orders, and I do not always agree with the Judicial Con- (c) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of is only right that we all have a chance sections at the beginning of chapter 111 of to see what kind of settlement arrange- ference. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. title 28, United States Code, is amended by ments our national government has en- adding at the end the following new item: Chairman, will the gentleman yield? tered into. Mr. CANADY of Florida. I yield to ‘‘Sec. 1661. Public availability of settlements I know my colleagues may recall of cases.’’ the gentleman from Massachusetts. back to the savings and loan debacle Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. I Mr. SKAGGS (during the reading). days. In Colorado there was a settle- Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous con- would just note that the gentleman ment in the old Silverado case involv- never agrees with the Judicial Con- sent that the amendment be considered ing something like a billion dollars, as having been read and printed in the ference. but that settlement was sealed and the Mr. CANADY of Florida. Well, occa- RECORD. people of Colorado and the country sionally. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Is never had any opportunity to find out Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Except there objection to the request of the exactly what was going on there. I do now. gentleman from Colorado? not think that is the kind of presump- Mr. CANADY of Florida. Occasion- There was no objection. tion that creates and supports public ally we agree with the Judicial Con- Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, I appre- trust and confidence in the courts, so I ference. The Judicial Conference has ciate the opportunity to bring this hope that this is an amendment that is looked at this, and they have decided issue to my colleagues, but in doing so reasonably drawn for a good purpose that there is no compelling need for a I want first to apologize to particularly and can earn the support of my col- change in the rule. the chairmen of the committee and the leagues. Another point that I think we should subcommittee for not having brought In the hearing that was held on this consider is that the sort of public mat- this to them before we started debate amendment some years ago before it ters and settlements by government on this on the floor today. It is not a was passed out of the same subcommit- agencies that the gentleman is con- process that I would normally want to tee that brings this bill to the floor, cerned about are subject to ongoing follow and certainly not one that they one Federal district judge who testified oversight by the Congress of the United want to have followed. in support of the bill characterized this States. I think that that is an appro- But this is a matter that actually kind of public accountability as, quote, priate area for us to be involved, and I was heard in a Judiciary subcommittee the very essence of justice is that it is believe that to the extent that there a few years ago and reported out. It ba- public. I think that ought to inform may be problems with respect to settle- sically would provide that in any civil our treatment of this matter, and I ask ments that are entered into by govern- case in which the United States, an my colleagues’ favorable consideration. ment agencies, it is our responsibility agency of the United States or a officer Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- in the Congress to conduct oversight of the United States is a party in inter- man, I rise in opposition to the amend- with respect to those matters. I believe est, that any settlement entered into ment offered by the gentleman from that that avenue of bringing public in such a case would in the normal Colorado (Mr. SKAGGS). scrutiny to settlements is a valuable course have to be made available to the Mr. Chairman, I am sorry to dis- check on potential abuses in this area. public, public information, unless the appoint my friend and colleague from So for all of these reasons I would presiding judge entered an order find- Colorado in opposing the amendment, urge the Members of the House to re- ing that there was a compelling public but as the gentleman noted at the out- ject the gentleman’s amendment. interest in sealing the settlement pa- set, this is an amendment which we on Again, as with the earlier amendments, pers and making them secret. the Committee on the Judiciary have I as a member of the Subcommittee on Certainly at a time when there is a really not had an opportunity to fully Crime would be happy to work with the lot of discussion about the need for evaluate. gentleman in addressing his concerns. more open and accountable govern- I am sympathetic to the concerns un- There may be a way that could be ment, I believe that moving in this di- derlying the amendment, and although more narrowly tailored and targeted rection with the Federal courts is an I will have to say that this debate to a which would help ensure that the pub- appropriate thing to do. certain extent has already taken place lic interest is protected, and that all April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2283 the other concerns that we have are presumption of the public business of Klink Moakley Sherman Kucinich Mollohan Skaggs adequately covered so that we are not the public courts being public? LaFalce Moran (VA) Skelton compromising the values that we seek If the gentleman is uncomfortable Lampson Morella Slaughter to protect. We may be able to craft an with that proposition, obviously he Lantos Nadler Smith (MI) approach that would take all those will vote against the amendment. But I Lee Neal Smith, Adam Levin Oberstar Snyder things into account and would be bal- think it is a fairly straightforward one, Lewis (GA) Obey Spratt anced and would deserve passage by the and one I was quite proud, for instance, LoBiondo Olver Stabenow House, but I do not think we are there to have the cosponsorship and support Lofgren Ortiz Stark Lowey Owens Stearns yet with this particular amendment, so of the now chairman of the Committee Luther Pallone Stokes I would urge the Members of the House on the Judiciary when this was re- Maloney (CT) Pappas Strickland to reject the amendment. ported out of the subcommittee that Maloney (NY) Pascrell Stupak Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. the gentleman is now a member of a Manton Pastor Tauscher Markey Payne Taylor (MS) Chairman, I move to strike the req- couple of years ago. Martinez Pelosi Thompson uisite number of words. The CHAIRMAN. The question is on Mascara Pomeroy Thurman Mr. Chairman, as it has been said the amendment offered by the gen- Matsui Price (NC) Tierney that patriotism is sometimes the last McCarthy (MO) Rahall Torres tleman from Colorado (Mr. SKAGGS). McCarthy (NY) Rangel Towns refuge of scoundrels, invocation of the The amendment was rejected. McDermott Reyes Traficant McGovern Rivers Velazquez Judicial Conference is the last refuge SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE of my friend from Florida. He is rarely McHale Rodriguez Vento OF THE WHOLE McHugh Roemer Visclosky to be found on the same side of an issue The CHAIRMAN. Pursuant to House McIntyre Roybal-Allard Wamp as the Judicial Conference, he is rarely Resolution 408, proceedings will now McKinney Rush Waters to be found on the same side of the resume on those amendments on which McNulty Sabo Watt (NC) hemisphere as the Judicial Conference, Meehan Salmon Waxman further proceedings were postponed in Meeks (NY) Sanchez Weygand and when the gentleman from Florida the following order: Menendez Sanders Wise invokes the Judicial Conference it is a The amendment offered by the gen- Millender- Sandlin Woolsey simple affirmation of the principle that McDonald Sawyer Wynn tleman from Michigan (Mr. CONYERS), Miller (CA) Schumer Yates nature abhors a vacuum. Into the vacu- and the amendment offered by the gen- Minge Scott um of arguments that my friend had tleman from Alabama (Mr. ADERHOLT). Mink Serrano rushes a reference to the Judicial Con- The Chair will reduce to 5 minutes NOES—216 ference. The fact that he who ordi- the time for any electronic vote after Aderholt Fossella Manzullo narily disagrees with it invokes it the first vote in this series. Archer Fowler McCollum shows this is a pretty good idea. Not Armey Frelinghuysen McCrery only is it a pretty good idea, but it is AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. CONYERS Bachus Gallegly McDade one that is hard to object to. The CHAIRMAN. The pending busi- Baker Ganske McInnis ness is the vote on the amendment of- Barr Gekas McIntosh The gentleman’s amendment is quite Barrett (NE) Gibbons McKeon moderate, the gentleman from Colo- fered by the gentleman from Michigan Bartlett Gilchrest Metcalf rado. It says if a judge decides there is (Mr. CONYERS) on which further pro- Barton Gillmor Mica a compelling reason not to make this ceedings were postponed, and on which Bass Gilman Moran (KS) the noes prevailed by voice vote. Bereuter Goode Murtha public, the judge can do that. But the Bilbray Goodlatte Myrick rule ought to be, the assumption ought The Clerk will designate the amend- Bilirakis Goodling Nethercutt to be that the public will know about ment. Bliley Gordon Neumann The Clerk designated the amend- Blunt Goss Ney public business. Boehlert Graham Northup I am surprised, frankly, at some of ment. Boehner Granger Norwood my conservative friends. Conservatives RECORDED VOTE Bonilla Greenwood Nussle Bono Gutknecht Oxley have traditionally distrusted the exec- The CHAIRMAN. A recorded vote has Boyd Hall (TX) Packard utive. For them to be not wanting to been demanded. Brady Hansen Parker require the executive to make clear the A recorded vote was ordered. Bryant Hastert Paul terms of any settlement which in the Bunning Hastings (WA) Pease The vote was taken by electronic de- Burr Hayworth Peterson (MN) nature of the case would exclude the vice, and there were—ayes 200, noes 216, Burton Hefley Peterson (PA) legislative body but be an executive de- not voting 16, as follows: Buyer Herger Petri Callahan Hill Pickering cision surprises me. So I rise in support [Roll No. 107] of the amendment. Calvert Hilliard Pickett AYES—200 Camp Hobson Pitts Mr. Chairman, I yield to the gen- Campbell Hoekstra Pombo Abercrombie Costello Frost Canady Horn Porter tleman from Colorado (Mr. SKAGGS) the Ackerman Coyne Furse Cannon Hostettler Portman author of the amendment. Allen Cummings Gejdenson Castle Houghton Pryce (OH) Andrews Danner Gephardt b Chambliss Hulshof Quinn 1645 Baesler Davis (FL) Green Chenoweth Hutchinson Radanovich Baldacci Davis (IL) Gutierrez Mr. SKAGGS. Mr. Chairman, I appre- Christensen Hyde Ramstad Ballenger Deal Hall (OH) Coburn Inglis Redmond ciate the comments made by my friend Barcia DeFazio Hamilton Collins Jenkins Regula from Florida about other ways of get- Barrett (WI) DeGette Harman Combest Johnson (CT) Riley Becerra Delahunt Hefner ting at the problem. I think it is a bit Cook Johnson, Sam Rogan Bentsen DeLauro Hilleary not quite sufficient to the issue to sug- Cooksey Jones Rogers Berman Deutsch Hinchey Cox Kasich Rohrabacher gest that any problems along these Berry Dicks Holden Cramer Kelly Ros-Lehtinen Bishop Dingell Hooley lines, of course, would be susceptible to Crane Kim Rothman Blagojevich Doggett Hoyer Congressional oversight and interven- Crapo King (NY) Roukema Blumenauer Dooley Hunter Cubin Kingston Royce tion by us. That can happen in a fairly Bonior Doyle Jackson (IL) Cunningham Klug Ryun haphazard fashion, as I think the gen- Borski Duncan Jackson-Lee Davis (VA) Knollenberg Sanford Boswell Edwards (TX) tleman is aware. DeLay Kolbe Saxton Boucher Ehrlich Jefferson But this really comes down to a pret- Diaz-Balart LaHood Scarborough Brown (CA) Engel John Dickey Largent Schaefer, Dan ty fundamental question, which is do Brown (FL) English Johnson (WI) Doolittle Latham Schaffer, Bob Brown (OH) Ensign Johnson, E. B. you think the business of the United Dreier LaTourette Sensenbrenner Capps Eshoo Kanjorski States courts, when involving the Dunn Lazio Sessions Cardin Etheridge Kaptur Ehlers Leach Shadegg United States itself as a party, ought Carson Evans Kennedy (MA) Emerson Lewis (CA) Shaw to be presumptively public business or Chabot Farr Kennedy (RI) Everett Lewis (KY) Shays Clayton Fazio Kennelly not, yes or no, subject to the discretion Ewing Linder Shimkus Clement Filner Kildee of a judge, employing a reasonable Fawell Lipinski Shuster Clyburn Ford Kilpatrick Foley Livingston Sisisky standard to determine whether there Condit Frank (MA) Kind (WI) Forbes Lucas Skeen are countervailing interests to that Conyers Franks (NJ) Kleczka H2284 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 Smith (NJ) Talent Watts (OK) Goss McCollum Scarborough Rivers Skelton Upton Smith (OR) Tauzin Weldon (FL) Graham McCrery Schaefer, Dan Rodriguez Slaughter Velazquez Smith (TX) Taylor (NC) Weldon (PA) Granger McHugh Schaffer, Bob Roemer Smith (NJ) Vento Smith, Linda Thomas Weller Hall (TX) McInnis Sensenbrenner Ros-Lehtinen Smith, Adam Visclosky Snowbarger Thornberry Wexler Hansen McIntosh Sessions Rothman Snyder Walsh Solomon Thune White Hastert McIntyre Shadegg Roukema Spratt Waters Souder Tiahrt Whitfield Hastings (WA) McKeon Shaw Roybal-Allard Stabenow Watt (NC) Spence Turner Wicker Hayworth Metcalf Shimkus Rush Stark Waxman Stenholm Upton Wolf Hefley Mica Shuster Sabo Stokes Weldon (PA) Stump Walsh Young (AK) Hefner Moran (KS) Sisisky Sanchez Strickland Weller Sununu Watkins Young (FL) Herger Myrick Skeen Sanders Stupak Wexler Hill Nethercutt Smith (MI) Sandlin Sununu Weygand NOT VOTING—16 Hilleary Neumann Smith (OR) Sawyer Tauscher White Bateman Gonzalez Paxon Hoekstra Northup Smith (TX) Saxton Taylor (MS) Whitfield Clay Hastings (FL) Poshard Hostettler Norwood Smith, Linda Schumer Thompson Wise Coble Hinojosa Riggs Hulshof Nussle Snowbarger Scott Thurman Woolsey Dixon Istook Tanner Hunter Packard Solomon Serrano Tierney Wynn Fattah Meek (FL) Hutchinson Parker Spence Shays Torres Yates Fox Miller (FL) Hyde Paul Stearns Sherman Towns Inglis Pease Stenholm Skaggs Turner Stump b 1709 Jenkins Peterson (MN) NOT VOTING—22 Johnson, Sam Peterson (PA) Talent Messrs. FOLEY, YOUNG of Alaska, Jones Pickering Tauzin Bateman Fattah Miller (FL) and CAMPBELL changed their vote Kasich Pickett Taylor (NC) Buyer Fox Paxon Kim Pitts Thomas Camp Gonzalez Poshard from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ King (NY) Pombo Thornberry Clay Hastings (FL) Riggs Messrs. OWENS, KUCINICH, STU- Kingston Portman Thune Coble Hinojosa Souder PAK, MCHUGH, HILLEARY, MINGE Knollenberg Radanovich Tiahrt Cox Istook Tanner Kolbe Redmond Traficant Davis (IL) Kaptur and HUNTER changed their vote from Largent Riley Wamp Dixon Meek (FL) ‘‘no’’ to ‘‘aye.’’ Watkins Latham Rogan b So the amendment was rejected. Lewis (CA) Rogers Watts (OK) 1718 The result of the vote was announced Lewis (KY) Rohrabacher Weldon (FL) Messrs. GREEN, MCDADE, PETRI Linder Royce Wicker as above recorded. Livingston Ryun Wolf and MILLER of California changed ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE CHAIRMAN PRO Lucas Salmon Young (AK) their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ Young (FL) TEMPORE Manzullo Sanford So the amendment was rejected. The result of the vote was announced The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Pursu- NOES—236 as above recorded. ant to House Resolution 408, the Chair Abercrombie Fawell Lewis (GA) announces that he will reduce to a PERSONAL EXPLANATION Ackerman Fazio Lipinski Mr. CAMP. Mr. Chairman, on rollcall no. minimum of 5 minutes the period of Allen Filner LoBiondo time within which a vote by electronic Andrews Forbes Lofgren 108, my voting card did not register, although device will be taken on the additional Baesler Ford Lowey I voted no. Baldacci Frank (MA) Luther (By unanimous consent, Mr. SOLOMON amendment on which the Chair has Barcia Franks (NJ) Maloney (CT) was allowed to speak out of order.) postponed further proceedings. Barrett (WI) Frelinghuysen Maloney (NY) Bass Frost Manton AMENDMENT PROCESS FOR H.R. 6, THE HIGHER AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. ADERHOLT Becerra Furse Markey EDUCATION AMENDMENTS OF 1998 The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. The Bentsen Ganske Martinez Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Chairman, I pending business is the demand for a Berman Gejdenson Mascara move to strike the last word for the Berry Gephardt Matsui recorded vote on the amendment of- Bilbray Gilchrest McCarthy (MO) purposes of making an announcement. fered by the gentleman from Alabama Bishop Gilman McCarthy (NY) Mr. Chairman, the Committee on (Mr. ADERHOLT) on which further pro- Blagojevich Gordon McDade Rules is planning to meet the week of ceedings were postponed and on which Blumenauer Green McDermott April 27th, this coming week, to grant Boehlert Greenwood McGovern the ayes prevailed by voice vote. Bonior Gutierrez McHale a rule which may limit the amendment The Clerk will designate the amend- Borski Gutknecht McKinney process on H.R. 6, the Higher Education ment. Boswell Hall (OH) McNulty Amendments of 1998. Boucher Hamilton Meehan The rule may, at the request of the The Clerk designated the amend- Boyd Harman Meeks (NY) ment. Brown (CA) Hilliard Menendez Committee on Education and the Workforce, include a provision requir- RECORDED VOTE Brown (FL) Hinchey Millender- Brown (OH) Hobson McDonald ing amendments to be preprinted in the The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. A re- Campbell Holden Miller (CA) amendment section of the CONGRES- corded vote has been demanded. Capps Hooley Minge SIONAL RECORD. Amendments to be A recorded vote was ordered. Cardin Horn Mink preprinted should be signed by the The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. This is Carson Houghton Moakley Castle Hoyer Mollohan Member and submitted at the Speak- a 5-minute vote. Clayton Jackson (IL) Moran (VA) er’s table. Amendments should be Clement Jackson-Lee Morella The vote was taken by electronic de- drafted to the text of the bill as re- vice, and there were—ayes 174, noes 236, Clyburn (TX) Murtha Conyers Jefferson Nadler ported by the Committee on Education not voting 22, as follows: Costello John Neal and the Workforce. [Roll No. 108] Coyne Johnson (CT) Ney Mr. Chairman, Members should use Cummings Johnson (WI) Oberstar AYES—174 Davis (FL) Johnson, E. B. Obey the Office of Legislative Counsel to en- Aderholt Burton Deal Davis (VA) Kanjorski Olver sure that their amendments are prop- Archer Callahan DeLay DeFazio Kelly Ortiz erly drafted and should check with the Armey Calvert Dickey DeGette Kennedy (MA) Owens Office of the Parliamentarian to make Bachus Canady Doolittle Delahunt Kennedy (RI) Oxley Baker Cannon Dreier DeLauro Kennelly Pallone certain that their amendments comply Ballenger Chabot Duncan Deutsch Kildee Pappas with the rules of the House. Barr Chambliss Dunn Diaz-Balart Kilpatrick Pascrell Mr. MANZULLO. Mr. Chairman, I Barrett (NE) Chenoweth Ehrlich Dicks Kind (WI) Pastor ask unanimous consent that the Clerk Bartlett Christensen Emerson Dingell Kleczka Payne Barton Coburn Ensign Doggett Klink Pelosi be directed to strike section 5 of the Bereuter Collins Everett Dooley Klug Petri bill. Bilirakis Combest Foley Doyle Kucinich Pomeroy The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. Bliley Condit Fossella Edwards LaFalce Porter ROGERS). Is there objection to the re- Blunt Cook Fowler Ehlers LaHood Price (NC) Boehner Cooksey Gallegly Engel Lampson Pryce (OH) quest of the gentleman from Illinois? Bonilla Cramer Gekas English Lantos Quinn Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, re- Bono Crane Gibbons Eshoo LaTourette Rahall serving the right to object, and I do not Brady Crapo Gillmor Etheridge Lazio Ramstad intend to object, but I would like to en- Bryant Cubin Goode Evans Leach Rangel Bunning Cunningham Goodlatte Ewing Lee Regula gage in a colloquy with the distin- Burr Danner Goodling Farr Levin Reyes guished gentleman from Florida (Mr. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2285

CANADY) chairman of the Subcommit- only civil actions under RICO. It offers versions of it because they are trying tee on the Constitution of the Commit- no loophole of any sort for those who to deal with a complex subject. I under- tee on the Judiciary. would attempt to steal the property of stand that this is a response to a deci- Mr. Chairman, I would like to re- others or for those who would hurt in- sion that was just made, but let me quest that the Committee on the Judi- nocent people. make a point that I thought was clear. ciary study the situation in DeKalb There is only one class of people who You run the place. You control the County, Alabama, which has occurred benefit from this amendment: citizens committees. You could schedule a as a result of Judge DeMent’s ruling. I lawfully exercising their rights to hearing next week. You could schedule do not object to the unanimous consent speak out on issues of public concern. a markup the week after. You can at this time, but I would like to ask Mr. Chairman, it is my hope that we bring the bill to the floor. Do not work that that be studied. can support this amendment. in such haste on this issue. Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Chairman, will Now, Members quoted Professor man, will the gentleman yield? the gentleman yield? Blakey as saying that the RICO statute Mr. ADERHOLT. I yield to the gen- Mr. COBURN. I yield to the gen- goes too far. Many of us agree. But do tleman from Florida. tleman from Arizona. my colleagues know it does not just go Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Chair- Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Chairman, I rise too far for nonprofits. There are profit- man, I certainly understand the gentle- in support of the gentleman’s amend- making entities that have been un- man’s concerns and I share the con- ment and do so on the basis that the fairly dealt with under RICO. cerns regarding certain matters with law needs to provide that the purpose You leave them alone, because my respect to the judge’s order, and that is of the crime has to have been a profit- colleague from California did not like a matter which we will consider. seeking motive. what Kenneth Starr did with regard to Mr. ADERHOLT. Mr. Chairman, re- The Arizona RICO law is written in a Monica Lewinsky and her mother, and claiming my time, I withdraw my res- fashion to parrot the gentleman’s came in with a bill right to the floor of ervation of objection. amendment. It provides that the crime, the House. My colleagues here do not The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Is the RICO offense, in order to be a pred- like what a court did with regard to a there objection to the request of the icate under the law, must have been right-to-life group, and they come gentleman from Illinois? pursued for financial gain. right to the floor of the House. This is There was no objection. What the gentleman’s amendment not a place for instant therapy. If you The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Sec- does is simply clarify that and provide do not like something you read in the tion 5, as amended, is stricken. that unless there was either a profit- paper, please do not come right up with Are there other amendments? seeking purpose or a criminal offense an amendment. Let us use the proce- AMENDMENT OFFERED BY MR. COBURN as defined under State law or under dures. Mr. COBURN. Mr. Chairman, I offer Federal law, a RICO action cannot be I agree in both cases; legislative ac- an amendment. brought. tion is appropriate, but not right away; The Clerk read as follows: That is consistent, Mr. Chairman, not version four of the amendment. Let Amendment offered by Mr. COBURN: with both the intent of the authors and us have a hearing and a markup, and Add the following at the end: of the experts that help write the law, let us not say that we are only going to Sec. 12 Limitation on Racketeering specifically, I believe, law professor G. protect nonprofits. If you vote for this (a) IN GENERAL.—Chapter 99 of title 28, Robert Blakey. I think the gentleman’s amendment, are you then going to tell United States Code, is amended by adding at amendment clarifies the law and is a people that as far as profit-making en- the end the following new section: step in the right direction, and I sup- tities are concerned, RICO does not go ‘‘Section 1633. Limitation on Racketeering’’ port the amendment wholeheartedly. too far? ‘‘(a) LIMITATION.—Notwithstanding any Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. other provision of law, in an action under Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Chairman, will Chairman, I move to strike the last the gentleman yield? section 1964 of title 18, no court of the United word. Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. I yield States or other court listed in section 610 of Mr. Chairman, we will now find out if this title shall have jurisdiction to enter or to the gentleman from Arizona. on the Republican side sauce for the carry out any order against the defendant, Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Chairman, I sim- goose is sauce for the gander. unless the defendant has engaged in a profit- ply want to point out that the lan- I opposed an amendment that was of- seeking purpose or committed a criminal of- guage as offered by the gentleman from fense under state law or under this title.’’. fered before by the gentleman from Oklahoma does not limit this exemp- (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—The table of California that would have created a tion to nonprofits. It will apply to prof- sections for chapter 99 of title 26, United brand-new privilege, a parent-child its or nonprofits. What it does is limit States Code, is amended by adding at the end privilege, not on the grounds that it the activity to whether or not the ac- the following: was an unthinkable idea but that deal- ‘‘1633. Limitation on racketeering.’’. tivity was profit-making activity. ing with a subject of that complexity Mr. COBURN. Mr. Chairman, every- and that impact for the first time on Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. I agree one knows what a racketeer is and the floor of the House without having with that. That is exactly what I said. what a racketeer-influenced corrupt gone through any of our procedure was In fact, if you are a corporation trying organization is. These words refer to not a good idea. to make a profit, which most corpora- organized criminals, to people who tions do, you are not covered by this form gangs for the purpose of hurting b 1730 amendment. That is true. If you have a other people and stealing from them. The majority agreed with me. I make profit-making corporation that is sell- Declaring people racketeers simply the same argument here. Actually, this ing girl scout cookies, they could not because they engage in activities and is not so much an amendment as it is be RICO’d for selling girl scout cookies. activism on behalf of a cause does a periodical. I have gotten four ver- But under this amendment if they are something very serious to our form of sions of it. I understand that. I am a profit-seeking corporation seeking a self-government and our sense of civil holding all four versions. profit, which profit-seeking corpora- liberties. It puts citizens at risk of los- First, it said earlier today it would tions are wont to do, they do not get ing everything they have if they sup- only apply if the defendant was not pri- the benefit of this. port a cause that happens to not be marily engaged in a profit-seeking pur- Mr. SHADEGG. Again, Mr. Chairman, popular in the eyes of some court. It pose. Then we got profit-seeking pur- if the gentleman will continue to yield, frightens citizens against the kind of pose or committed bodily injury. Then I want to try to make this clear. It civil activism that has been a hallmark we got, we struck bodily injury, and we does not matter whether the entity is a of our democracy. It undercuts the got criminal offense. Then we got a profit-making entity or a nonprofit- very foundations of our government by conforming amendment. making entity. If a profit-making en- the people. I do not criticize the drafters. They tity is not engaged in a profit-making This amendment has no effect on the are doing a very good job, but this is a activity, they are engaged in a chari- prosecution of criminals. It affects work in progress. We have gotten four table activity. H2286 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, I want to Whole? If not, the question is on the Chairman, I understand that. Reclaim- suggest to the gentleman from Okla- amendment. ing my time, the gentleman is limited homa (Mr. COBURN) that he has per- The amendment was agreed to. in the amount of time he can state the formed a signal service by bringing this The bill was ordered to be engrossed obvious. Yes, if you are a profit-mak- matter to our attention. Yes, it is in and read a third time, was read the ing corporation and you are going the wake of a jury verdict and a court third time, and passed, and a motion to about the business of trying to make a case that happened in Chicago, but he reconsider was laid on the table. profit, this amendment does not pro- is highlighting a problem this Congress f tect you. You could be subject to RICO. has wrestled with for years; namely, GENERAL LEAVE I agree. trying to make some sense out of the If General Motors was accused of try- RICO statute. Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Speak- ing to sell girl scout cookies in a rack- There are abuses where it is applied er, I ask unanimous consent that all eteering way, you have come to their where it was never intended to be ap- Members may have 5 legislative days defense. But if someone said, corpora- plied. That is recognized by the gen- to revise and extend their remarks on tion X is guilty of racketeering in its tleman from Massachusetts (Mr. H.R. 1252. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there profit-making corporate entity, they FRANK) and the gentleman from Michi- objection to the request of the gen- are not protected. I do not think that gan (Mr. CONYERS) and conservatives tleman from Florida? ought to be the case. I do think there on this side. We need to look at RICO. There was no objection. have been abuses of RICO, but against And so if the gentleman is generous f profit-making entities trying to make enough, and he has been, to withdraw a profit. Indeed, if you look at the pat- his amendment, I pledge the Commit- AUTHORIZING THE CLERK TO tern of RICO, it is more often used by tee on the Judiciary will take a hard MAKE CORRECTIONS IN EN- one civil plaintiff against a civil de- look at revising the RICO statute, hold GROSSMENT OF H.R. 1252, JUDI- fendant and a profit-making corpora- hearings, working in a bipartisan way CIAL REFORM ACT OF 1998 tion. with the minority, and try to come up Mr. CANADY of Florida. Mr. Speak- I do not know what play they are with a bill that does something sub- er, I ask unanimous consent that in the going to call in the huddle, but we may stantive and correct what we all agree engrossment of the bill, H.R. 1252, the be about to see version five. I have four is an egregious flaw. Clerk be authorized to correct section versions and seven people working on Mr. COBURN. Mr. Chairman, I thank numbers, punctuation and cross ref- amendment 5. the gentleman. erences, and to make such other tech- Let us go to a hearing. Let us go to Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. nical and conforming changes as may a markup. I do not think we should Chairman, if the gentleman will con- be necessary to reflect the actions of have the markup right here. It is not tinue to yield, we may wind up invok- the House in amending the bill, H.R. polite. I think we ought to do this in ing that great quote from Edward G. 1252. the regular order. But this amendment Robinson in the civil situation, ‘‘is this The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there says, if you are engaging in profit-mak- the end of RICO?’’ objection to the request of the gen- ing activity, and you have a profit- Mr. HYDE. That is from Little Cae- tleman from Florida? making purpose, you get no benefit. sar, and I remember it well. The gen- There was no objection. You are covered by RICO. tleman and I are the only two. f RICO says you cannot get together Mr. COBURN. Mr. Chairman, I ask for racketeering purposes. I would not unanimous consent that the amend- APPOINTMENT OF CONFEREES ON suggest that that is what is going on ment be withdrawn. H.R. 3579, 1998 EMERGENCY SUP- over there, Mr. Chairman. What they The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Is PLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS are trying to do is what we should do in there objection to the request of the ACT the regular legislative process. Let us gentleman from Oklahoma? Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I ask have a hearing and do this in a sensible There was no objection. unanimous consent to take from the way. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Are Speaker’s table the bill (H.R. 3579) Mr. COBURN. Mr. Chairman, I ask there further amendments to the bill? making emergency supplemental ap- unanimous consent to strike the last If not, the question is on the commit- propriations for the fiscal year ending word. tee amendment in the nature of a sub- September 30, 1998, and for other pur- The CHAIRMAN pro tempore (Mr. stitute, as modified. poses, with a Senate amendment there- ROGERS). Is there objection to the re- The amendment in the committee to, disagree to the Senate amendment, quest of the gentleman from Okla- nature of a substitute, as modified, was and agree to the conference asked by homa? agreed to. the Senate. There was no objection. The CHAIRMAN pro tempore. Under The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there Mr. COBURN. Mr. Chairman, I recog- the rule, the Committee rises. objection to the request of the gen- nize the pertinent comments of the Accordingly, the Committee rose; tleman from Louisiana? gentleman from Massachusetts, and and the Speaker pro tempore (Mr. There was no objection. would say that many of his comment SNOWBARGER) having assumed the MOTION TO INSTRUCT OFFERED BY MR. OBEY. are accurate, and that given his com- Chair, Mr. ROGERS, Chairman pro tem- Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I offer a mo- ments being accurate, I ask unanimous pore of the Committee of the Whole tion to instruct. consent to withdraw the amendment. House on the State of the Union, re- The Clerk read as follows: Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. ported that that Committee, having Mr. OBEY moves that the managers on the Chairman, will the gentleman yield? had under consideration the bill (H.R. part of the House at the conference on the Mr. COBURN. I yield to the gen- 1252) to modify the procedures of the disagreeing votes of the two Houses on the tleman from Massachusetts. Federal courts in certain matters, and bill H.R. 3579, making emergency supple- Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. for other purposes, pursuant to House mental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, 1998, and for other pur- Chairman, I would look forward, as I Resolution 408, he reported the bill poses, be instructed, within the scope of the think many on our side would, and I back to the House with an amendment conference, to agree to funding for the Inter- know the ranking member would, we adopted by the Committee of the national Monetary Fund consistent with the would love to reexamine the RICO stat- Whole. terms, conditions, and provisions of H.R. ute across the board and deal with The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under 3114, as reported by the Committee on Bank- abuses, and on that basis I thank the the rule, the previous question is or- ing and Financial Services. gentleman and we will be cooperative. dered. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gen- Mr. HYDE. Mr. Chairman, will the Is a separate vote demanded on any tleman from Wisconsin (Mr. OBEY) is gentleman yield? amendment to the committee amend- recognized for 30 minutes, and the gen- Mr. COBURN. I yield to the gen- ment in the nature of a substitute tleman from Louisiana (Mr. LIVING- tleman from Illinois. adopted by the Committee of the STON) is recognized for 30 minutes. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2287 Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Chairman, I won- economy at cut-rate prices because of the economic interest of the United der if the gentleman from Louisiana is, currency disequilibrium; and those States and to defend the interest of in fact, in opposition to this IMF bail- sales and the accompanying trade defi- American workers; and I think the best out? cits are going to cost many American way to do that is to support this mo- Mr. LIVINGSTON. I am in opposition jobs and they are going to close many tion to recommit, and I would urge the to the motion. American factories. House to do so when the vote comes Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Speaker, I thank We are being told that, in spite of later this evening. the gentleman. that threat, we should not act upon it Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of b 1745 because, somehow, an element of the my time. majority party caucus still wants to GENERAL LEAVE Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- use this IMF crisis as leverage in order Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I ask self 8 minutes. to push their advantage on a totally unanimous consent that all Members Mr. Speaker, I am in a curious posi- unrelated issue involving family plan- may have 5 legislative days within tion here today. I am offering a motion ning policy known as the Mexico City which to revise and extend their re- to instruct to the conferees to defend policy. marks on H.R. 3579, and that I may in- what would have been considered a And so, the American business com- clude tabular and extraneous material. core Republican value when I first munity is being told that they should The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there came to this body. wait for another day to have this prob- objection to the request of the gen- When I came to this body, the Repub- lem addressed. I do not think we can tleman from Louisiana? lican Party was a very strong inter- afford to wait for another day. At any There was no objection. nationalist party, and it recognized moment, the act of some speculator, Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I that the best way to defend our own the run on country’s currency could yield myself 4 minutes. economic interests was to make cer- cause a further unraveling of the situa- (Mr. LIVINGSTON asked and was tain that our economy was operating tion in Asia, which would present us given permission to revise and extend in a world which was as stable as pos- with even bigger economic problems. his remarks.) sible. We are being asked to appoint At any time, we could have a currency Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, re- conferees tonight on a bill which is crisis in the Ukraine, in Brazil, in Rus- gardless of one’s position on the IMF, supposed to contain not only supple- sia, in India, in Turkey; and, without one should understand that this is sim- mental appropriations for Bosnia and IMF replenishment, we would not be ply a motion to instruct the conferees for Iraq and for flood victim relief, it is ready to defend the economic interest to adopt the position that has not been also supposed to contain, at least the of the United States. debated on the floor of this House. It administration asked us to include in My motion would simply instruct the seems to me that if we are going to in- this proposition, full funding for the House conferees to agree to the admin- struct the conferees to do anything, we IMF replenishment and funding, as istration’s request for funding of the are on solid ground if we are instruct- well, for the United Nations arrearages International Monetary Fund under ing them to deal with issues that have so that we can eliminate our debt sta- the terms and conditions approved by been debated and sent forward. tus in that organization. the House Banking Committee. That But the fact is the IMF is an issue I have a motion here tonight which Banking Committee bill was approved that will be debated at some later date would instruct the conferees to at least on March 5 with the overwhelming bi- on the floor of this House. It has not accept, as an add-on to the bill passed partisan vote of 40–89, with the support yet been debated, and forcing the con- by this House, to accept our obligation of virtually all of the Democrats on the ferees to support this provision dealing to fully fund the administration re- Committee and the votes of two-thirds with the IMF simply because the Sen- quest for the IMF. of the Republicans on the committee. ate has dealt with it and the House has I am not doing that because it will And that bill was endorsed by the ad- not is ill-advised. help American business, although it ministration. Moreover, reading the motion to in- certainly will. I am not doing that be- That bill sets tough new labor rights struct, it says that we should support cause I care about what is going to and environmental conditions on IMF the terms, conditions and provisions of happen in Asian countries around the lending, as well as new requirements H.R. 3114, the bill reported by the Com- world. I care, but that is not the reason for increased accountability and trans- mittee on Banking and Financial Serv- I am offering the motion. I am offering parency at the IMF. It sets up a watch- ices. That bill differs substantially this motion because we need to be dog group, including representatives from the IMF provisions contained in aware of the fact that what happens in from labor and NGO groups, to review our Non-Emergency Supplemental bill. our economies around the world can the implementation of labor rights and It may never get to the House. We do have a crushing effect on American other criteria. And it does a number of not know what is in that bill, and to workers and a hugely negative effect other things. force the conferees to support all of the on the American economy. I do not think that we can afford to terms and conditions of what I believe We have seen what has happened in wait, and I do not especially think it is is about a 60-page bill and incorporate Asia when that region has continued to a good idea to allow us to go to the it I think is extremely ill-advised. engage in fiscally ludicrous acts. We Senate and have only the Senate lan- The House Committee on Appropria- have seen Japan for years follow an guage on the table, language which was tions and the leadership of this House economic policy which has led to a much more favorable to the adminis- decided on a two-bill strategy. The bill huge over-building in many areas in tration, frankly, but language which I which the House passed that will be be- Asia instead of having led to a growth do not believe adequately defends the fore a conference provides for emer- in Japanese consumption. And we have interest of American workers. gency appropriations for Bosnian seen speculative activities, as well, in That is why I would simply say to peacekeeping disaster relief, and other Asia. And, as a result, a few months those of my colleagues who have told military assistance. ago we saw a huge collapse of Asian their workers or their businesses or In fact, if we do not address this mili- currencies. their farmers that they are going to be tary assistance by May 1, we under- I do not worry about that because of defending the economic interest of stand from the Secretary of Defense what it means to Asia. I worry about American workers, I think this is the that he might give notice of furloughs that because of what it means to us. time and this is the vote. This is not a for people all within the Defense De- Because what it means is that, as a re- partisan issue. It certainly should not partment. So there is an emergency sult of those devalued currencies, we be a partisan issue. It has become with respect to defense appropriations. have got every cargo ship known to wrapped up in partisan hostage poli- And, obviously, we know from all the man being loaded with artificially low- tics, unfortunately, but it should not other disasters that have occurred priced foreign goods who are on their be so. around this country we need to provide way to the American economy and We are here tonight to answer the additional assistance to people. We are they are soon going to be sold in this question whether or not we will defend trying to give them that relief and not H2288 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 get embroiled in a heavy discussion on pitfall debates that I think are not al- me, we are talking about an organiza- IMF or any other extraneous issues. together central to the IMF issue. tion whose employees receive reim- The second bill, which has not come So here let me just take a brief mo- bursement for their income taxes. before the House, is a non-emergency ment to talk about the IMF. The IMF, When their children want to go to bill that includes $17.9 billion for the historically, was established in theory private schools, that education is fi- International Monetary Fund. That before the end of World War II and, in nanced; and we will continue to finance bill has passed the Committee. I sent a fact, right after the war to deal with that if we vote another $18 billion to letter to the Committee on Rules ask- the causes of war, the causes of depres- the IMF. When their children want to ing for an open rule for consideration sion. go to a private university or college, of that bill, and I requested the leader- b 1800 the IMF will pay their full cost of edu- ship to schedule that legislation as cation, tuition, books. The rationale for the creation of the soon as possible. We are asking the U.S. taxpayers in IMF is very much alive today and is Some people say that that second bill this funding request to reimburse the symbolized in a circumstance in a part will never see the light of day. They employees of the IMF for income taxes, of the world that has fought three wars are wrong. The fact is that many other for private school costs, for tuition, in the last 60 years. items in the second bill absolutely It is in the interest of the United and not only that, but for salaries must pass. They have to pass. Things States of America to stabilize the eco- higher than those paid by the U.S. Gov- like the veterans compensation and nomic turmoil in Asia. It is in the in- ernment. pension benefits. Believe me, Mr. terest of the United States economy to We might say, well, is it worth it? Speaker, there is going to be a second stabilize the circumstance in Asia and What will the IMF do with our money? bill. ensure that it does not widen and deep- We have been told they are going to There is going to be a second bill, and en in terms of a gulf of economic reces- bail out Asia, but that is not true. we should not prejudge the outcome of sion spreading from one region of the They have already funded the bailouts that bill by instructing conferees to world to another. of Asia. weigh the consequences of that bill be- The word bailout is sometimes ap- They have $80 billion in reserve. They fore we even have a chance to debate plied to the IMF. Actually, it is any- have $40 billion in gold reserve. Indo- the contents on the floor of the House. thing but. It is a lending, not aid- nesia, who they loan money to, has $16 We are going to have a full and fair dis- granting institution. It is an institu- billion in reserves. What are they going cussion of those issues at a later date tion to which the United States prof- to do? They are going to expand their on the floor of the House. We should fers resources which amount to less role and continue to give loans to for- not prejudge them by putting them than 20 percent of the total resources eign countries at 4.5 percent interest prematurely into the conference. They of the institution but resources which when the going market rate is 10 to 14 are totally unrelated to emergency ap- we have to call on on a very, very short percent. propriations, and the emergency bill notice, an institution that has almost I will tell my colleagues there is needs to move forward so we can meet $40 billion in gold reserves. going to be an infinite supply of those the needs of the disaster-afflicted peo- In a way, one might argue the IMF is lined up to get money subsidized by the ple throughout the country and the the cheapest conceivable stabilizing in- U.S. taxpayer. military, which has to replenish the stitution in the world today. Rather Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 monies that they have expended in Iraq than relying on the United States tax- minutes to the distinguished gen- and in Bosnia. payer alone and ways it could cause tleman from California (Mr. DOOLEY). So I urge Members to defeat this mo- enormous liabilities of the United (Mr. DOOLEY of California asked and tion to instruct. It is on the wrong bill. States, we are drawing on over 80 per- was given permission to revise and ex- It will have a full and adequate debate cent of the resources from others in tend his remarks.) but not on a motion to instruct. We ways using an institution that has a Mr. DOOLEY of California. Mr. need to get the disaster bill triple-A rating. Speaker, I rise in strong support of this conferenced and on its way to the Finally, with regard to timing, I motion. Clearly, the United States has President for his signature. would also simply add that the longer a vested interest in the funding of the Our troops in Bosnia and Iraq will we delay, the greater the likelihood International Monetary Fund. We have get the money they need to do their that this problem deepens and widens. an interest because we can protect job, nobody in the Defense Department Delay is on the side of instability. jobs, we can protect the economic in- will be furloughed, and our citizens and Firm, direct, straightforward, prompt terest of the companies which are ex- the victims of the disasters will get the American action is on the side of sta- porting so much product to Asia. money that they deserve. bility. When we look at my home State of Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of For the sake of stability and for the California, nearly 30 percent of our ex- my time. sake of the United States economy, for porting is going to Asia. It is clearly in Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 the sake of United States’ leadership in our interest to restore confidence in minutes to the gentleman from Iowa international affairs today, I would that market, to provide greater finan- (Mr. LEACH), the distinguished chair- urge that, as awkward as this type of cial certainty for our businesses which man of the Committee on Banking and resolution is, that it be supported. are exporting critical products. Financial Services. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman It is also in the interest of the United Mr. LEACH. Mr. Speaker, I thank the for yielding me this time. States to provide IMF funding because gentleman for yielding. Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I it provides for greater international se- First, let me acknowledge part of yield 2 minutes to the very distin- curity. When we look at the potential what my distinguished colleague and guished gentleman from Alabama (Mr. consequences of a weakened South good friend, the gentleman from Lou- BACHUS). Korea, with their inability to deal re- isiana (Mr. LIVINGSTON), said. This is Mr. BACHUS. Mr. Speaker, in ad- sponsibly with their financial crisis, we not a perfect process, and I do not dressing this issue, I think we ought to are on the verge of inviting potential think that. I want to say to my distin- first ask ourselves who is the IMF. conflict with North Korea, looking at guished friend that I appreciate very Well, the IMF functions like a private perhaps a weakened neighbor to the much the thoughtful attention his club. Its minutes are secret. They are south. committee has given to this issue, and never released to the public. Its votes Failure also to provide funding could I am very much in his debt. are not a matter of public record. The further undermine the fragile investor Having said that, I am hard-pressed people who work for the IMF do not confidence in the region and set off an- not to support a product that comes pay income taxes; or, actually, they other round of global economic insecu- from my committee, not only a prod- pay income taxes, but then the IMF re- rity. If we do not arrest the financial uct that comes from my committee but imburses them for those income taxes. crisis in Asia, we are inviting this to a product that has been caught up in We are talking about funding the expand to other parts of the world, be some very unusual political kinds of IMF and funding its operation. Hear it Russia, be it Latin America, which April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2289 would further undermine the economic issue confronting the Congress in the Fourthly, does the IMF need this interest of the United States. year 1998. If we do not pass it, I believe money today? No, they do not. Nobody Rejecting the IMF funding also we would be defaulting on our global believes they do. The IMF has $45 bil- threatens the leadership the United economic leadership. It is unthinkable lion now in liquid resources, a $25 bil- States is providing in the world, the for us not to pass it. We must partici- lion credit line and $37,000 in gold re- leadership that we are providing in pate within the IMF. serves. terms of providing economic stability We must also participate in the legis- Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 as well as military stability. lative arena in a manner that will en- minutes to a well-known reactionary, Clearly, this motion to instruct the able us to obtain a majority of votes. the gentleman from Massachusetts conferees will ensure that this Con- That means we have to proceed colle- (Mr. FRANK). gress will be able to act in an expedited gially. We proceeded collegially within Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. Mr. fashion to ensure that our interest will the House Committee on Banking and Speaker, I am impressed by the gentle- be protected. Financial Services. We proceeded in a man’s renewal of the Louisiana/Ver- Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I way that was able to bring about a sig- mont alliance. Not since the war of 1812 yield 2 minutes to the distinguished nificant majority of Republicans and has it been so vigorous, but I think it gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Democrats so that we were able to re- is wrong this time. SAXTON). port the bill out by a vote of 40 to 9. The gentleman from Vermont talked Mr. SAXTON. Mr. Speaker, if I We recognize, of course, that there is about the Asian bailout as if it was all thought that the $18 billion which is significant criticism of the IMF and, about Chase Manhattan Bank. I happen being asked for would provide a benefit therefore, we adopted amendments in a to thank that Kim Tae-chung, the to the people of this country and to the collegial, bipartisan manner to in- President of South Korea, is one of the people of Asia, I would be the first one struct the administration in the ways great, small d, democratic heroes of out front voting for it. to reform the IMF. Those amendments our era. I will guarantee to my col- The fact of the matter is that the are essential to obtain passage and to leagues that, if asked, he would express Joint Economic Committee and others accomplish mutually desired goals. his appreciation for the role of the have been studying this issue since last Support the motion to instruct. IMF. summer, since this request came in, Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I This is a very courageous democrat, and that is simply not true. It is not yield 2 minutes to the distinguished a man who risked his life for democ- true for a number of reasons. gentleman from Vermont (Mr. SAND- racy. He was elected president. He is The gentleman from Alabama (Mr. ERS). working with the unions. He is working Mr. SANDERS. Mr. Speaker, I thank BACHUS) talked about the secret club to try and help his country. The IMF is the gentleman for yielding. that surrounds the IMF. We cannot very important to him. I rise proudly as a progressive, as an find out what they do, why they do it, We have a thug like Soeharto, and we internationalist, as somebody who is are working to try and change IMF the results of the studies on what they pro-choice, and someone who has a 100 policies there. That is why this par- have done, any of that. That is all se- percent lifetime labor voting record in ticular amendment is such a good one. cret. the House of Representatives and have People have said, well, we should Secondly, and more importantly, the worked for labor and working people have debated this. Fine by me, but I average loan rate is 4.7 percent. for his whole adult life. Let me ask you a question, Mr. I rise in strong opposition to the mo- have not been in control of the com- Speaker. If you were a businessman tion brought forth by my good friend, mittee that kept it off the floor. We and the IMF came along and said, if the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. had a long debate and hearing in the Committee on Banking and Financial you make risky investments, which the OBEY). foreign countries and institutions did, Let us be clear what we are talking Services. This should have been on the and you fail, which they did, I will give about here. We are talking about an $18 floor before. We cannot keep it off the you a loan of 4.5 percent, how would billion replenishment of the IMF, a 45 floor and then claim the benefit of it that make your decision making, un- percent increase in our contribution to having been kept off the floor. We can- derstanding that we have two criteria the IMF. not shoot our parent and plead we are in making investments, one is to make Please understand the Asian bailout an orphan and ask for mercy. The peo- a profit and the other is how much risk is over. The $19 billion that we have al- ple who controlled the House decided we have to involve when we do it? ready given to the Chase Manhattan to keep it off the floor. That is why we Obviously, a low interest rate bailout Bank and the BankAmerica and to are dealing with it now. loan on a policy of the organization Citibank for their losses, and they It has been talked about a great deal. that does it on a global basis is going came here for corporate welfare, and This is a version of it that reflects the to have a deleterious, negative effect we gave it to them, that is gone. That importance of it to places like South on the kinds of investment decisions is over. What we are talking about is Korea and to Thailand which are try- that are made. new money for a new mission and for ing hard to make improvements. It re- Besides that, Mr. Speaker, I think an expansion of the function of the flects the need for labor standards. We there is another issue that needs to be IMF. That is point number one. explicitly here, by the way, included discussed, and that is simply this: The Point number two, I believe it was strong protections for the agricultural IMF promotes higher taxes. The IMF last year that many people took to the sector of our economy. The bill was ex- promotes monetary instability. And floor of this House and they said, Mr. plicitly amended to recognize that. here we are being asked today, after we Speaker, you are wrong for combining This is not a perfect world. It is not have not even had a debate on this disaster relief with other matters. I a perfect institution or a perfect bill. It House floor, to vote $18 billion of said so. is as good an effort as we were able col- American taxpayers’ money that pro- How could we come back today and legially to put together, working with motes, through an organization that say the IMF is a disaster? It is not. agriculture and labor and others, to promotes higher taxes, that promotes People all over this country want to provide more funds. It is true, it is not monetary instability. That has a dele- deal with the ice storm in the North- absolutely necessary now, but I will terious effect on foreign economy that east, tornados, hurricanes. That is not tell my colleagues this: If, in fact, we is not a positive one. an issue that the IMF should be com- know that the House is never going to I vote no, and I hope everyone else bined with. vote for the IMF, then maybe we ought will here today. Thirdly, no matter what our point of to buy some Korean and Thai currency Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 view may be on the IMF, this issue and sell it short. Because it is going to minute to the gentleman from New needs serious debate. It should not be have a negative effect if we walk away York (Mr. LAFALCE). brought here all of a sudden for a one- from this on decent, struggling govern- Mr. LAFALCE. Mr. Speaker, I really hour debate. It deserves many hours, ments from South Korea and Thailand think that passage of the IMF legisla- and it deserves some ample warning that deserve some support. It is also in tion is the most important economic time so we can have serious discussion. our own self-interest to support them. H2290 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 b 1815 this bill, and it is included in the mo- If my colleagues want some inter- Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I tion to instruct, certain reforms that national bureaucrat to make that deci- yield 2 minutes to the distinguished are passed. We acknowledge the trans- sion instead of the elected Members of gentleman from California (Mr. parency and conditionality questions Congress, then we should pass this mo- CUNNINGHAM) a member of the Commit- related to IMF. Those reforms are here. tion. I think that there are some peo- tee on Appropriations. We will be requiring certain things of ple probably who may disagree with Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Speaker, I the countries that receive this aid. We me. The point is, we have not had a understand those that may want to will be putting more requirements on chance to study this issue, we have not support the IMF, but if we look, econo- IMF in terms of the transparency, we had a chance to debate this issue. We mists themselves are split whether the acknowledge that. But, my friends, are asked to come here at the end of a IMF does any good or not. And then this is about jobs here at home and work week, after a two-week hiatus, those that say even that they doubt also security abroad. and take up a very complex issue. And that we need it to bail out southeast The House Banking Bill contains strong lan- I think that the Members of this Con- Asia. But yet $18 billion. guage on Conditionally and making the IMF gress deserve more, the people of this As my colleagues know, this body more Accountable to Congress. Nation need more, and whatever Mem- has wrestled with emergency flood, The bill includes: bers think about the MAI or the IMF, emergency El Nino, emergency supple- Accountability. I think the American people the one thing that they should know is mental for defense, and yet we are hav- should know what the IMF is doing with the that we should be making this decision ing to try to offset it so we do not money they have. Not surprisingly previous after we study it and after we debate break the budget caps through domes- Congresses thought that an audit of IMF lend- it. tic spending. But yet we are going to ing activity was an important issue. The Na- Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 give away $18 billion. Haiti, Somalia, tional Advisory CounselÐof which the Sec- minute to the distinguished gentle- Bosnia, $16 billion in operations that retary of the Treasury is the chairmanÐis re- woman from California (Ms. PELOSI). we get no credit for from the U.N., but quired to report annually by April 1 to the Con- Ms. PELOSI. Mr. Speaker, I thank yet there are those that want to give gress regarding IMF loans. I was shocked to the gentleman for yielding this time to money to the U.N. in support, $16 bil- find out that the most recent annual report me. This evening we had a special oppor- lion, $18 billion, $5 billion more for the filed by the Treasury covers 1992Ðand this tunity in this House of Representa- extension in Bosnia. was transmitted to Congress in December of tives, and that is to accept a motion to My colleagues, where does it stop? 1997! instruct for a resolution that has The American taxpayers have to pay The Banking bill will require the Secretary of strong bipartisan support in its com- for this. It is not our money. It is $18 Treasury to provide a semi-annual report to mittee of jurisdiction. Many others billion, not even million dollars, and the Congress certain IMF loans. have said it passed 40 to 9 with the sup- we are going to give it away, Mr. The report would be a GAO ``audit'' of IMF port of the Chair, the gentleman from Speaker. That is wrong. loansÐthe amount, term, interest rate, dis- Iowa (Mr. LEACH) and the ranking My colleagues rap on the Republicans bursement schedule, etc. In addition, the re- member, the gentleman from New York all the time for having to offset money. port will include information regarding trade (Mr. LAFALCE). We want to break the budget caps, we barriers in borrowing countries which may af- want to spend more money. Well, it is It has a framework to address many fect U.S. exporters as well as borrower coun- of the concerns our colleagues have easy to spend it but it is difficult to go try export promotion policies which may result to the taxpayers and ask them to pay about the IMF, and frankly that I in dumping of foreign goods in the United share, about the need for increased for it, and then even more difficult to States. And importantly, the Secretary of the say where are we going to take it out transparency, for conditionality that Treasury would be required to testify annually includes labor rights and environ- and still not break the budget caps? before the Congress on the contents of such Alan Greenspan said if we do, interest mental protections, and the moral haz- report. ard issue of do countries’ financial in- rates will go back up, the economy is Let there be no mistake, I support full fund- going to go to hell, and it just does not stitutions take risks unduly because ing of the IMFÐbut Congress needs to be in- they think there is an IMF bailout. work. formed and there needs to be accountability at But yet here they are asking us again This resolution, this provides the the Treasury Department. Being 5 years be- to spend, to spend, to spend, bigger framework to increase that, and all of hind in providing required reports is nothing government, higher taxes, spend those concerns are trumped by the con- short of outrageous and an insult to the legis- money. It is the same old rhetoric, and tagion clause. Contagion, that is the lative branch. It is for this reason that I will I do not support it, and I do not think spread of what will happen to the cur- sponsor an amendment today I urge my col- the American people do, Mr. Speaker. rencies in these countries, will have a Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 leagues on the Banking Committee to join me terrible impact on workers in the minute to the distinguished gentle- in supporting the Treasury Audit and Account- United States. woman from New Jersey (Mrs. ROU- ability Amendment. Mr. Speaker, I want to make one Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I KEMA). point very, very clearly. This is not a (Mrs. ROUKEMA asked and was yield 1 minute to the gentleman from bailout, it is a loan. We get a credit, an given permission to revise and extend Pennsylvania (Mr. KLINK). asset for it. We are not bailing out, we her remarks.) Mr. KLINK. Mr. Speaker, I thank the are not giving money away. We are Mrs. ROUKEMA. Mr. Speaker, I want gentleman for yielding me time. honoring our commitment. Even the to stress again, when this bill passed Mr. Speaker, you are right, the staunchest critics of IMF say we need the committee it passed by a vote of 40 House should not consider IMF funding to do this replenishment now and then to 9. Two-thirds of the Republican just an hour before we all get on board proceed with the reforms. members of the committee voted in planes to head toward home. We should Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I favor of this bill. Now, why? Not be- have a full debate on this issue. yield 1 minute to the very distin- cause we are giving money to foreign- Let me just give my colleagues one guished gentleman from California ers, not because we are bailing out example of why we should be discussing (Mr. ROHRABACHER). banks, but because we are concerned this. The IMF is working on an amend- Mr. ROHRABACHER. Mr. Speaker, about jobs here at home. ment to its Articles of Agreement that we should be debating this. I should I speak from New Jersey, representa- would give the IMF the power to re- have more than 1 minute, and I am not tive of export-oriented States, and I quire all member countries to liberal- complaining to the gentleman from can see many around here who under- ize their laws regarding the flow of cap- Louisiana (Mr. LIVINGSTON). It is a stand the agricultural community and ital accounts. They would be the ulti- travesty to have this debate so that their dependence on this kind of trade mate enforcer of capital deregulation. DANA ROHRABACHER has 1 minute to ex- situation. That is why it passed with All member countries, including the press himself on this issue. And the an overwhelming majority. United States, would be told by the same with the rest of my colleagues. I also want to say, and this has not IMF what they could and could not do When are we going to stand up for our been stressed enough, that we have in regarding the flow of capital. own rights in this body? April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2291 Here we have the violation of the being asked to add $18 billion to our We all agree, however, that we should rights of our people to control their commitment. Which works out, inci- do our best to help Americans who destiny, taken away from them by $18 dentally, to over $150 for every single have suffered from natural disasters. billion and given to some crook or working taxpayer in America. Can my We also should all agree that our some nincompoop overseas who has ba- colleagues imagine calling them up and Armed Forces need the necessary funds sically driven their own financial insti- asking for the money and telling them to sustain them overseas. tutions into bankruptcy, and we can- we only have time to debate this for an Mr. Chairman, I just urge my col- not debate it for more than an hour. hour because it is not in the bill? We leagues to keep the process as simple This is ridiculous, and it is as ridicu- are adding it on the floor at the last as possible. Let us vote against this lous as the idea of bailing out the IMF minute. motion to instruct, and let us make in the first place. It has been pointed out here that the sure that the American people are I just returned from Asia. There are IMF needs some reform. We have got to taken care of first. alternatives in Asia to this bailout. exercise some leverage, even if we were Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 And yet if we force our money over going to give $18 billion to the IMF, if minute to the distinguished gentleman there in this IMF bailout, it will under- we want those reforms. But if we sim- from Iowa (Mr. BOSWELL). cut the private efforts in that area to ply sign on at the last minute without (Mr. BOSWELL asked and was given bail out their own problems. And what any questions, there will not be any re- permission to revise and extend his re- do they do with this money, this $18 forms. marks.) billion and the other money going over This proposal hurts American agri- Mr. BOSWELL. Mr. Speaker, I thank to Asia? It is used to finance factories culture because the IMF, as is well the gentleman for yielding me time. that put out goods and services that known, is going to continue its policy Mr. Speaker, a few weeks ago, not put our own people out of work. of supporting devaluations which hurt too long ago, several of us met with It is immoral for us to give this our market for exports. This hurts U.S. Mr. Greenspan, Mr. Rubin, and Mr. money to foreigners after we have cut exporters. Without question, the IMF Glickman, and we had quite a good programs at home. We should not be causes as many problems as it creates. meeting. They agreed, and Rubin and bailing out the IMF, we should be bal- This deserves real debate, has not any- Greenspan do not always agree on ev- ancing our budget. And we should have thing to do with our El Nin˜ o storms, erything, but they agreed that day IMF a longer debate. which is what this bill is supposed to is very, very important to us. I think Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I be about. Keep it out. the question came from at least a half yield unfortunately just 1 minute to a dozen different approaches, and some b 1830 the gentleman from New York (Mr. of you may have been there, too. SOLOMON) my good friend, the very dis- Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- Is there risk in this? Mr. Greenspan tinguished chairman of the Committee self 30 seconds. said that we have never lost a dime on on Rules. Mr. Speaker, it ought to be under- this; that there is always hard collat- Mr. SOLOMON. Mr. Speaker, I say to stood that we are not limited in debate eral. They also said that it is their the gentleman if this were here under a today because of our choosing. We are opinion, the three of them, that the hit rule we would have several hours to de- limited in debate because we were de- on this, if the Asian economy does go bate this and not several minutes. nied the opportunity on the rule when down, would be on agriculture. As my colleagues know, in the other this bill was considered to have a full- In our State, 40 percent of our pro- body they are debating, my colleagues, fledged debate on the IMF. We asked duction is exported. That is important. the NATO expansion bill over there for for that opportunity. Every person who Forty percent. Then I remembered as I Poland, Hungary and the Czech Repub- voted against us on the rule has the re- reviewed the figures on the trade bal- lic, and we have asked them to beef up sponsibility for the fact that we are ance that it is up $26–$27 billion, but their military so that they can inter- limited only to one hour tonight. Do that agriculture is on the plus side. We operate and communicate with our not blame us for the problem which cannot afford to take that risk. military to defend each others’ bound- you yourself created. Now, if these people tell us that this aries. We are asking them to pay their Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I am is a line of credit, that they may not fair share. happy to yield 2 minutes to the gen- use it, but it ought to be there to save Here the IMF is already warning tleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY), the our economy, we ought to give it seri- these 3 countries they will not under- great whip of the majority party. ous thought. write economic development loans if Mr. DELAY. Mr. Speaker, I thank the Mr. Speaker, I support this. the countries start jacking up the mili- chairman for all his hard work, and I Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I am tary budgets. That could cost us $19 appreciate being yielded this time. pleased to yield 1 minute to the distin- billion over the next 15 years. What is Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to guished gentleman from Ohio (Mr. going wrong? the motion to instruct. The question KUCINICH). We should go slow on this, we should today, frankly, is not whether you sup- Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Speaker, I am ask the IMF, the socialist French econ- port the IMF. We will answer that urging my colleagues to vote no on the omist who is in charge of it, to come question in due time. Instead, we have motion to instruct. Congress gives in- here and tell us why he is going against to ask whether this motion will speed structions to the IMF. There has been American foreign policy. We are foot- up disaster assistance to the American over 2,000 opportunities for the IMF to ing most of the bill; why do they not people, or slow that assistance down. listen to the concerns of the American listen to us? Clearly, if we pass this motion to in- people, and each time the people have This is going nowhere and we are struct conferees, we will complicate been ignored. As a matter of fact, the going to see to it. the process of getting needed assist- Executive Director of the IMF has only Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I ance to Americans who have faced dis- voted 12 of those 2,000 times. yield 1 minute to the distinguished asters in the last year. They have been ‘‘absent without gentleman from California (Mr. COX) When it comes to the IMF, many of leave’’ at the IMF. Over and over they the chairman of the Policy Committee us continue to have strongly held and have ignored the will of the people and of the Republican Conference. competing opinions. Why would one the will of the Congress. AWOL on Mr. COX of California. Mr. Speaker, I want to mix that kind of understand- labor rights, AWOL on environmental thank the gentleman for yielding this ing and confusion? rights, AWOL on human rights. time to me. Some believe that we should give So we are now going to tell this Con- I would like to focus our attention on more money to the IMF, no matter gress that they are going to guarantee precisely where we are. We are being what the consequences. Others of us be- labor and environmental rights? That asked to increase the United States’ lieve that the IMF is all too often not is baloney. Vote against the IMF, vote commitment to the International Mon- the solution, but rather the problem. against the motion to instruct, and etary Fund by 45 percent over the long- Still others have opinions that fall vote to stand up to this international standing level of U.S. support. We are somewhere in the middle. financial cartel, which is destructive of H2292 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 jobs and human rights all over this who thinks they can spend your money I regret having to support this proce- world. overseas with these countries.’’ dure, but in spite of my great respect Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 1 ‘‘Why haven’t these countries taken for my chairman of the Committee on minute to the distinguished gentleman care of themselves?’’ This is Alice talk- Appropriations, the gentleman from from Minnesota (Mr. VENTO). ing about her and her two daughters, Louisiana (Mr. LIVINGSTON) and for his (Mr. VENTO asked and was given and she is talking also about John, his fairness, there is no way we can get permission to revise and extend his re- paying the bills. She is saying if I can this issue of funding for the IMF on the marks.) take care of my family, if I can take floor as a clean debate, where we vote Mr. VENTO. Mr. Speaker, I rise in care of my bills, why can’t Indonesia, up or down on IMF funding, without support of the Obey motion to instruct. South Korea and these others take care unrelated issues that constitute legis- The fact is that the money is already of theirs? in the Senate bill. The question is, are lating on appropriations bills, which is ‘‘The bottom line, there is a little against our rules, but has been allowed we going to give them any guidance, group in Washington that thinks we in regard to this issue. any further guidance, on how to use it? need to tax you higher so we can pay So the IMF wants what every bu- the IMF.’’ Mr. Speaker, I strongly support IMF reaucracy wants, all the money and all Vote against this motion. funding. It is definitely jobs in my dis- the flexibility they can get. We are Mr. Speaker. I rise in strong opposition to trict. This House bailed out the S&L’s limiting them. The fact is there is an the Motion to Instruct Conferees to provide full because we knew we had to minimize urgency to the passage of this money. funding to the fiscally unsound International the damage, so we need to involve our- There are 62 nations out of 183 that Monetary Fund and to provide to the fiscally ir- selves in this loan program to contain have loans, 183 Members of the IMF responsible United Nations with alleged ar- the Asian problem. that have loans. It is obvious with the rearages owed by our nation. Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I recessions or lack of growth in the Eu- This Motion to instruct is being offered yield 1 minute to the gentleman from ropean and Asian marketplaces that under the guise of an Emergency Supple- Texas (Mr. PAUL). that does constitute the opportunity mental Appropriation. for our markets in terms of trade. Let me be clear. The International Monetary (Mr. PAUL asked and was given per- This is a fight really about those of Fund is not currently suffering an emergency. mission to revise and extend his re- us that are really wanting to have a The money that has been pledged by the IMF marks.) free market and free trade to occur. We to Indonesia, Thailand, and South Korea to Mr. PAUL. Mr. Speaker, I rise in have a battle going on right now in combat their fiscal crisis is already provided. strong objection to this motion. This terms of those markets. If the Amer- Let me reiterate that point. By denying this should be a very easy vote for all of us; ican model and the model of free mar- Motion to Instruct and by denying any IMF we should all vote no. They already kets does not work, and it is going to money as part of a Supplemental Appropria- have $35 billion of our money. They tion we will not harm the ongoing financial fail, we have to have mechanisms in want $18 billion more. That is $53 bil- bailout of these Asian nations. place that can prevent it from going lion. down to ground zero. That is what the The IMF and its proponents scream that IMF does. they cannot handle a crisis and that the IMF Think about it. Some of you would All of us admit the IMF is not per- immediately needs $18 billion from the Amer- like to spend that on the military, on fect, but what other tool do you have ican taxpayer. How ludicrous. national defense. That would not be to go to? If you are in the middle of the Since the financial crisis started in Asia in too bad an idea. Others might want to ocean facing a storm, I do not think the Summer of 1997, there has been no other spend it on domestic welfare programs. the idea to jump overboard and start financial crisis that required the assistance of This would be a better idea than bail- swimming is a good one. That is what the IMF. In fact, the economic situation has ing out rich bankers and foreign gov- the Members of this Congress are pro- settled down in East Asia and there is the be- ernments. Besides, there are some of us posing to do. ginnings of an economic recovery. who would like to give the $53 billion Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I The IMF has, right now, more than $75 bil- back to the American people and lower yield 1 minute to the distinguished lion to combat financial crises. The IMF has their taxes. But to give them another gentleman from Florida (Mr. STEARNS). an estimated $50 billion in reserve right now $18 billion does not make any sense. in addition to $25 billion in an emergency ac- (Mr. STEARNS asked and was given Then to come to us and say it will count. On top of all that, the IMF will receive permission to revise and extend his re- not cost the taxpayers any money is marks.) $28 billion in loan payments from other bor- absurd. Why do they come here and try Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Speaker, I thank rowing nations to the IMF by the end of the the distinguished Chairman of the Year 2000. to sneak through this appropriation Committee on Appropriations for With all that said, by the end of 2000, the with a parliamentary trick, if it is not yielding me this time. IMF will have over $100 billion in reserve for going to cost the taxpayers any Mr. Speaker, I rise in strong opposi- their uses. Plus, these Asian nations will be money? Certainly it is going to cost tion to the motion to instruct con- paying back the $120 billion that they have the taxpayers money. It adds to the na- ferees to provide funding to the fiscally borrowed from the IMF in the last few months. tional debt, and we have to pay inter- unsound IMF. Is a $200 billion IMF reserve fund not est on the national debt. This is a cost. Mr. Speaker, for a moment let us enough? This attempt to increase the IMF Now, the Director of the IMF had an consider a conversation down in my quota is not to deal with any emergencies, but interesting proposal. He said this will district with Alice and John Moore. If is a naked attempt to expand bureaucracy and not cost us anything because it is com- Bob Newhart could do this, he could do the scope of the IMF. ing out of the Central Bank. a much better job than I am going to The IMF wants to play a dominant role in Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 2 do. the world's economic policies, not simply aid I knock on the door and I say, nations in distress. The IMF has even tried to minutes to the distinguished gen- ‘‘Hello, Alice and John. I am your Con- tell the United States what its economic poli- tleman from Texas (Mr. STENHOLM). gressman. Tonight I am going to vote cies ought to be. (Mr. STENHOLM asked and was to fund the IMF.’’ The IMF is so arrogant that they still refuse given permission to revise and extend They say, ‘‘What is the IMF?’’ to give Congress documents that we have re- his remarks.) I say, ‘‘This is an international fund, quested over and over again that will give us Mr. STENHOLM. Mr. Speaker, these not from the United States, that is more detail about how poor the IMF's policies elite groups that we heard talked about going to take your tax dollars and give are. a moment ago that are sneaking this it to Indonesia, South Korea, Thailand I urge my colleagues to soundly defeat this through include the American Farm and others to help bail them out.’’ Motion. They say, ‘‘Mr. Stearns, you are my Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 30 Bureau Federation, Dairy Farmers of Congressman. Why are you doing seconds to the gentlewoman from Con- America, National Cattlemen’s Beef Association and, U.S. Wheat Associ- this?’’ necticut (Mrs. JOHNSON). ‘‘Well, let me tell you, there is an Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut. Mr. ates. elite group in Congress, in the Senate, Speaker, in my 30 seconds, let me say To all of these who have suggested particularly down at the White House, I rise in strong support of this motion. that we are spending taxpayer money, April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2293 you are not reading the facts. You Leave this bill alone. We were elected more catastrophe will come.’’ Many know better than to stand here in the to the Congress of the United States, fine scholars believe that the catas- well and tell our colleagues who are not to the Council of the United Na- trophe we have called the Asian flu not here that we are going to be appro- tions. If the International Monetary was, in fact, created by the IMF. priating this money, when we have not Fund is worthy, the International Mon- b 1845 appropriated one penny in the history etary Fund should stand on its own of the IMF. merit, not on the backs of American There is an old adage in economics, Why are we here for the IMF? Be- victims of great disasters which brings Mr. Speaker: When the government as- cause it is in America’s best interests. us to the floor about this bill. sumes the risk, nobody assumes the It has been ever since we have had the This is about emergency aid for risk. If we have an agency out there IMF, and it is today. American families, for victims of great with taxpayers’ dollars, that sends a To those who want the reforms, I disasters. Leave the bill alone. If you message out, Mr. and Mrs. Inter- agree with you on that. And let us look want to do something about the IMF, national Investor, irrespective of the at the Wall Street Journal of April 10. bring it up; let it stand on its own mer- denominations in which you will make ‘‘IMF moves are expected to force open its. risky, careless decisions, do not worry markets.’’ We are doing all of the Quite frankly, I think we are too about it. We will be there with a bail- things that critics who usually we international around here, and we out, decisions made in countries that agree on are saying we need to do, but should be taking care of the Midwest a practice the worst kinds of failed crony the only way we can get it done is to hell of a lot more than we take care of capitalism. No, we need to study this bring this bill and have this action these countries overseas. issue. We need to understand this. done. Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 30 I understand that there are indus- If we had not had this in place, we seconds to the distinguished gentleman tries and sectors of the American econ- could not have had GSM–102 funding from Michigan (Mr. LEVIN). omy that feel they themselves are at for agriculture that has been very suc- (Mr. LEVIN asked and was given per- risk. But will they, in fact, not put cessful in building up markets. mission to revise and extend his re- their own industries, agriculture, even, Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Speaker, will the marks.) at worse risk if, in fact, the IMF is in- gentleman yield? Mr. LEVIN. Mr. Speaker, this bill deed the perpetrator and not the savior Mr. STENHOLM. I yield to the gen- does not spend $18 billion, it will not in international crises? We need to un- tleman from Florida. cost $150 to the taxpayers. What will derstand this. They need to come Mr. STEARNS. Mr. Speaker, does the cost the American taxpayer is chaos in clean. gentleman think money grows on Asia. The IMF has made mistakes, but They need to be willing to tell us who trees? Where does the IMF get the more often than not, it led to liberal- they are, how they do business, how de- money, if Congress does not give it to ization of trade. Look at Poland, Esto- cisions are made, by what criteria, on them? Why are we voting on this to- nia, Uganda and Egypt. what empirical data, and through what night, if the gentleman does not think Globalization is changing. For the historical precedents they base their we are going to appropriate? Could the first time, we have a bill that says an judgments. They have a failed track gentleman explain that? international institution has to pay at- record. They are not a good bet. Mr. STENHOLM. Mr. Speaker, re- tention to labor market conditions and If I were to take $18 of my own claiming my time, these are loan the environment. Vote for this instruc- money out and bet it on a racehorse, I funds. When loan funds are granted and tion. would not bet it on one that I had ob- paid back, there is no loss to the tax- Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I am served consistently running the wrong payers of America. The gentleman pleased to yield 21⁄2 minutes to the dis- way in the dark of night. No, I would knows this and I know this. tinguished gentleman from Texas (Mr. bet it on a racehorse that was running Mr. STEARNS. The money is guaran- ARMEY), the Majority Leader of the the right way and winning the race. teed by the taxpayers of this country, House. Members are asking me to bet $18 bil- and the money is given to them. Mr. ARMEY. Mr. Speaker, I thank lion of the taxpayers’ money. I am tell- Mr. STENHOLM. ‘‘Guaranteed’’ is the gentleman for yielding me time. ing the Members, they are asking me correct. But the bottom line is, is it a Mr. Speaker, what is this IMF that to bet on a blind racehorse going the good investment and for whom is it a wants $18 billion of our money? Where wrong way and dragging too many oth- good investment? It is a good invest- did they come from and what do they ers with it. I need to know more. It is ment for American agriculture. And to do? I am shocked and appalled at how our duty to know more. If we do not those who continue to drag your feet little we know about the IMF. We see it as our constitutional duty, let us and say we could not even bring this know a little bit about its history, but see it as a matter of the basic, fun- bill up and consider it, to those who we do not know a thing about how it damental dignity and integrity of the continue to do that, you are in danger does business. House of Representatives. of doing irreparable harm to the Amer- We have an international financial Members could not come to me today ican farmer and rancher, because we institution that purports to manage through any agency of the American depend upon world trade, and we are a international markets and commerce, government, working on behalf of the part of a 182-nation group that is at- has failed in its originally intended American people immediately and di- tempting to have organized trade. mission, and now intends to self-de- rectly, and say, give them $18 billion, For us to continue to drag our feet scribe a new mission so that it can be- no strings attached, no questions can do irreparable harm to the Amer- come an international deposit insur- asked. We would certainly laugh them ican farmer, and when you vote no on ance corporation. out of the body. Why would we do that this, understand that. It is run by a French Keynesian, who for an international agency that re- Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I am operates the agency at such levels of fuses to reform and refuses to even tell happy to yield 1 minute to the gen- secrecy that we have no idea how they us how they do business? tleman from Ohio (Mr. TRAFICANT). come by the decisions. It is alleged by Certainly, they are a grand institu- (Mr. TRAFICANT asked and was many fine scholars to have been the tion. Certainly, they are wrapped in given permission to revise and extend agency that caused the Asian flu first wonderful, international mystique. But his remarks.) by forcing the Thais to devalue their because they are mysterious, is that Mr. TRAFICANT. Mr. Speaker, this currency. It seems to have a consistent the reason to give them more money bill is to provide supplemental emer- track record of opposing tax decreases more easily, with less consideration gency aid. I thought it was to provide and requiring tax increases. than we would give even an agency of supplemental emergency aid to the Now, even for a Keynesian, you have our own government? No. Southeast United States of America, got it backwards. This is the tax- The answer is, vote no. We will dis- not Southeast Asia. I thought it was to payers’ hard-earned dollars. We are cuss this at greater length later. We provide emergency aid for American being asked by this agency, that oper- will hold the hearings. We will under- citizens, not for foreign citizens. ates in secrecy, ‘‘Give us the money, or stand it later better. It just very well H2294 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 may be that we conclude, after thor- a watchdog group, including represent- Fund. Former Secretary of the Treas- ough, full, complete understanding atives from business, from labor, from ury Bill Simon has said, abolish it, it is that we ought not to bet on this blind agriculture, and from NGO groups to obsolete. He happens to be a man who horse at any time. watch what they are doing and to re- has made a great deal of money in Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 30 port back to the public. It will require international trade. But ignore him for seconds to the gentleman from Texas our Secretary of the Treasury to meet a moment. (Mr. BENTSEN). on a regular basis defined in the bill Former Secretary of State, former Mr. BENTSEN. Mr. Speaker, with all with different groups and issue a report Secretary of the Treasury, former Sec- due respect to my colleague from card on how we are doing in these retary of Commerce, former Secretary Texas, in the debate I have heard today areas. of Labor, this is all the same person, there are a great deal of Members here It is a good piece of legislation. I George Schultz at Stanford University, who in fact do not understand the IMF urge my colleagues to vote yes on the one of the most respected international and do not understand the situation, motion to recommit, so we can begin figures in American government his- but the fact is this. I am not going to the process of changing how we do tory, has said, abolish it, it is obsolete, get into the details, because I don’t business in this world. The world is a it no longer serves a function. When have enough time, but if we wanted to, different place. These international or- Bretton Woods died, it died. It is a we did not have to take 3 weeks off ganizations must reform to the reality large, expensive bureaucracy finding a over the Easter recess. We could have of a different place. This bill helps do new excuse to mess things up. passed the supplemental with the dis- it. But we are not suggesting that we aster relief. We could have done the Mr. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Speaker, I am abolish it. We are suggesting we ask work on this. We could have taken sev- pleased to yield the balance of my time some questions. For example, the eral hours and debated the IMF. But to the very distinguished Speaker of International Monetary Fund is con- the leadership chose not to do that. the House, the gentleman from Georgia sistently wrong. There is a very signifi- We are all paid the same, and we are (Mr. GINGRICH). cant report that says it is the IMF all here to work. We have important Mr. GINGRICH. Mr. Speaker, I thank which caused the bank crisis in Indo- issues we have to deal with. The IMF is very much my friend, the gentleman nesia. There is a significant study a very important issue. If the United from Louisiana, for yielding time to which says it is the IMF which caused States fails to act on this in what is a me. Thailand first to quit fixing its money, liquidity facility, the rest of the world Mr. Speaker, let me say that I rise then to float its money, and then to will see it, the markets will see it, and first to point out that the bill which we suffer from an economic disaster. We the markets will be very efficient in are actually going to conference on is, know from Latin America it is routine how they will treat it, and we will see in fact, an important, urgent bill. In for the International Monetary Fund what will happen to the East Asian my State, for example, where we have to go in and say, raise taxes; take care economies and the effect on the Amer- had significant tornado damage, and of the international banks, but raise ican economy. my friends from Alabama, who can re- Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield 3 taxes. port on their tornado damage, Ten- Let us talk about the crisis in bank- minutes to the gentleman from Michi- nessee, other places around the coun- ing. Two major U.S. banks reported gan (Mr. BONIOR), the distinguished Mi- try, where there are real problems, we yesterday that they had had record nority Whip. Mr. BONIOR. Mr. Speaker, I thank are trying to get the aid to the Federal profits. None of the big banks are suf- my colleague for yielding time to me. Emergency Management Administra- fering out of Indonesia. They have Mr. Speaker, I share some of the con- tion. That is urgent. made their money. They are not suffer- cerns that have been expressed on this The Secretary of Defense has indi- ing out of South Korea. But what does floor this evening. I would not be in cated if we do not get this bill finished the International Monetary Fund an- this well today to support a bill that and to the President before May 1, that swer? Raise taxes on the working poor. endorsed the status quo. This bill is he will have to begin to initiate laying I hear people come to this floor who about reform. This vote is about re- off personnel, laying off contracts, cut- claim they represent the workers, who form. ting off training. That is urgent. So say they are for an international bank I want to commend the gentleman this is an important supplemental bill institution that is totally secret, that from Iowa (Mr. LEACH), the gentleman that is urgent. is run by a bureaucrat whose major from New York (Mr. LAFALCE), and the The Committee on Appropriations re- policy is to raise taxes on workers in Committee on Banking and Financial ported out a second bill, a bill which is the Third World to pay off New York Services, who in an overwhelming vote, not quite on as fast a track, but which banks. That does not sound like popu- 40 to 9, endorsed the first major revi- will in fact be considered by the House. lism to me. sions and reform of the International But I cannot help but draw to the But let me go a step further. We were Monetary Fund. House’s attention who has been lectur- told at Thanksgiving, I got the phone They put for the first time in 50 ing us today on international trade: calls, big crisis in Asia, everything is years working men and women at the Members who voted against NAFTA, going to collapse by Christmas. We table. They put for the first time the Members who were prepared to vote were told at Christmas, big crisis in concerns of our fragile Earth at the against fast track, Members who have Asia, everything is going to collapse by table. They did this in a responsible made a career out of protectionism, mid January. We were told in January, way. I would have liked more, but I Members who are dedicated to not big crisis, might even lead to a war in think they did the right thing, and being part of the world market. Korea. We were told in February, big they moved things forward in a respon- They now get up to lecture us, those crisis, could be bad by March. sible way. of us who voted for NAFTA, those of us But do Members know what we were Mr. Speaker, this bill sets labor who supported fast track, those of us told, over and over? Japan is not the standards and environmental standards who actually believe in the world mar- problem, because all of Japan’s debt is and accountability standards and ket, and we are to be told, rush this denominated in yen, and the Japanese transparency for the IMF in a way that thing through; make sure that you get can cope with it, and they have $270 we have never seen before. It will, Mr. $24 billion or $18 billion down to the billion in reserve. Do Members know Speaker, for the first time, allow peo- International Monetary Fund, or what- what the statement was this week? We ple to assemble, to organize, to bargain ever number the Secretary of the have to have this money for Japan; collectively. It will take on sweatshops Treasury sends up. Do not look at it. which is, by the way, intellectually and child labor. It will do the things Do not ask questions about it. Do not nonsense, because the IMF does not that we all talk about around here, but explore it. Send the money. Because have enough money to deal with Japan. we have not been able to accomplish after all, it is only money. So what is really at stake here? We through these lending institutions. Now, I believe we have an obligation believe, on behalf of the taxpayers, So I say to my friends, this is a good to the people of America to look criti- that we have the right as the Congress bill. Not only will it do it, it will set up cally at the International Monetary to ask some very tough questions of a April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2295 multi-billion dollar bureaucratic insti- parency and accountability out of the oping country has a horrible problem it tution that is totally secret. International Monetary Fund, we will begins to invade the economies of all I will start with question number bring an appropriate bill to the floor the developing countries in the world. I one: If they think tax increases are so this year in the appropriate way. believe the President did the right good, how come no staff member of the But for my friends who are protec- thing in using the IMF and Treasury IMF pays any taxes anywhere in the tionists, who opposed NAFTA and who funds to do something to help Mexico. world? They do not pay taxes in the opposed Fast Track, to come to the As a result of that, the problem was U.S., and they do not pay taxes in their floor and lecture the rest of us on the stemmed across the world. Mexico is home country. So the French leader of world market and demand that we paying that loan off. In fact, most of it the IMF pays no taxes in socialist move in ignorance now, before we can is already paid off with interest. France while advocating tax increases. learn anything, I think is highly inap- The problem we face now is greater Maybe if the IMF staff paid taxes, they propriate. than the problem we faced with Mexico would not be as excited about tax in- I hope every Member will vote this because it is not just one country that creases. down on behalf of defending the Amer- is experiencing trouble, it is six or Let me give just one quick example ican taxpayer, so we can get an effec- seven or eight in Asia. of how out of touch with reality the tive IMF program that in fact truly Now, the Speaker says there is no IMF is. This is their annual report for helps American agriculture and truly rush and that he thought people were 1997 in which they recommend that we helps American exporters. kind of overstating the problem a few not have tax cuts because they are Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I yield my- months ago. Well, I do not think they worried that the budget will not be bal- self 10 seconds. were overstating the problem. But they anced. This is their annual report lead- Mr. Speaker, I would simply say to were able, because they had funds ing into this year. the distinguished Speaker, those of us available to commit, to go to these Now, we are the most transparent who voted against NAFTA and Fast countries and to keep them from going Nation in the world. There is more in- Track want to be involved in the world into bankruptcy. So because of the ex- formation available about us than any market, but in ways that are fair to istence of the IMF and the ability to do other country. We are going to have a workers and not just investors and this, we have avoided tremendous prob- surplus this year of somewhere be- CEOs. lems. tween $18 billion, the inaccurate low Mr. Speaker, I yield the balance of There is no good for any worker or and defensive Congressional Budget Of- my time to the distinguished gen- any business in the United States to fice number, because they are like the tleman from Missouri (Mr. GEPHARDT), have any of these countries fail. Even IMF, they are bureaucrats, and the free the minority leader. with that in place, they may fail. And market estimate of $50 to $80 billion. (Mr. GEPHARDT asked and was when we criticize the IMF, and I am If the IMF is wrong about the surplus given permission to revise and extend sure there is a lot to criticize, I think of the United States of America, when his remarks.) we have to keep in our mind a little bit it is headquartered in Washington, Mr. GEPHARDT. Mr. Speaker, I urge of humility about what is going on could it be possible that their bureau- Members to vote for this motion to in- here. Let us face it, nobody at the IMF, crats do not have a clue about how the struct. I obviously reject the Speaker’s nobody at Treasury, nobody at the modern, instantaneous real-time categorization of some of us as protec- World Bank, and I dare say nobody in worldwide money markets work, and tionists. I voted for Fast Track when the world really knows how to do what could it be possible that their advice is George Bush was President. I voted for we are trying to do. consistently wrong? the WTO. I stand ready to vote for Fast We are literally trying to build a new They said as late as July 28, 1997, Track for President Clinton if we can architecture in our world for world that, ‘‘Many directors also indicated have the proper provisions to recognize trade. The truth is crony capitalism is that a faster pace of fiscal consolida- the rights and the needs of workers and not consistent with capitalism. And I tion by bringing forward spending cuts the environment. I was ready to vote now believe we cannot really have cap- and delaying tax cuts than that envi- for a NAFTA that had sufficient teeth italism unless we ultimately have de- sioned in the balanced budget agree- in the side agreements. mocracy and human rights. But we ment would help to contain demand To refresh everybody’s memory, it also know we cannot get those things pressures and enhance the plan’s credi- was not long ago that the Speaker and to be achieved overnight, and so we bility, as well as increase the latitude I were called to the White House with have got to have a little bit of humility for countercyclical fiscal policy.’’ then Majority Leader Dole and Mr. about what we know will work and What does that mean? It means as DASCHLE, and the President and Bob what can bring these countries back to late as July last year, when we were Rubin and Allen Greenspan told us that economic health. bringing the budget agreement to the there was a crash happening in Mexico, Mr. Speaker, it is great to have a floor, they were against tax cuts, they this was after NAFTA was passed, and pledge that we may get to vote on this were for deeper spending cuts. They did that we needed to replenish funds for before the year is out. We could wake not have a clue about the politics of the IMF so that Mexico could be bailed up tomorrow morning or next month or the country their headquarters is in, out. the month after that and be in a world and their policy was exactly back- We all said that we thought it was of trouble. The IMF, the truth is, does wards. necessary to do that because there was not have the ability to deal with these no good for America in Mexico going problems now. We have a chance to- b 1900 bankrupt. But after we came back to night to vote to instruct the conferees It was a big tax increase, big govern- the House and consulted on both sides to try to pull some of this funding into ment, socialized policy. of the aisle, we found there was not a this bill. We may be sorry, we all may So here is my proposition. We have good deal of support for doing that. be sorry, if this bill does not contain several hearings coming up. The Joint And so the President, using a Justice the monies that the IMF needs. Economic Committee under Chairman Department opinion, decided to go This is an important moment. None SAXTON will be holding hearings. ahead with that loan. of us will like a world that is in free Former Secretary George Schultz has One of the reasons they felt it was fall, and it will be in free fall very agreed to come and testify. Others will important to do that was because while quickly if they cannot move and act to be asked to testify. I am certain our Mexico was going down, something was stem problems that we have never seen friends on the left who would like to happening that none of them had ever before in the history of the world. have more taxes and bigger bureauc- seen before. That was, developing coun- I ask Members and beseech Members racy will have a chance to come and tries’ economies all over the world, to act responsibly tonight and vote testify. Thailand, Indonesia, were going down. ‘‘yes’’ for this motion to instruct, so we When we have finished the hearings Mr. Speaker, we are in a new world. have a chance to bring to this bill the and we are prepared to have appro- And in that new world, technology has kind of funding that it needs for the priate requirements to get trans- put us at a point where when one devel- good of the world. H2296 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Bliley Granger Pickering son's graduation from college. Had I been Blunt Greenwood Pitts SNOWBARGER). All time has expired. Boehlert Gutknecht Pombo present I would have voted Nay. Without objection, the previous ques- Bonilla Hall (TX) Portman b 1930 tion is ordered on the motion to in- Bono Hansen Pryce (OH) struct. Brady Hastings (WA) Quinn The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. Brown (OH) Hayworth Radanovich LAHOOD). Without objection, the Chair There was no objection. Bryant Hefley Rahall appoints the following conferees: The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Bunning Herger Ramstad Messrs. LIVINGSTON, MCDADE, YOUNG of question is on the motion to instruct Burton Hill Redmond Florida, REGULA, LEWIS of California, offered by the gentleman from Wiscon- Buyer Hilleary Regula Callahan Hobson Riggs PORTER, ROGERS, SKEEN, WOLF, KOLBE, sin (Mr. OBEY). Calvert Hoekstra Riley PACKARD, CALLAHAN, WALSH, OBEY, The question was taken; and the Camp Horn Rogan Campbell Hostettler Rogers YATES, STOKES, MURTHA, SABO, FAZIO Speaker pro tempore announced that Canady Hulshof Rohrabacher of California, HOYER; Ms. KAPTUR and the noes appeared to have it. Cannon Hunter Ros-Lehtinen Ms. PELOSI. RECORDED VOTE Carson Hutchinson Royce There was no objection. Chabot Hyde Ryun Mr. OBEY. Mr. Speaker, I demand a Chambliss Inglis Salmon f recorded vote. Chenoweth Jenkins Sanders APPOINTMENT OF CONFEREES ON A recorded vote was ordered. Coburn Johnson, Sam Sanford H.R. 3130, CHILD SUPPORT PER- The vote was taken by electronic de- Collins Jones Saxton Combest Kasich Scarborough FORMANCE AND INCENTIVE ACT vice, and there were—ayes 186, noes 222, Condit Kelly Schaefer, Dan OF 1998 not voting 24, as follows: Conyers Kim Schaffer, Bob Cook King (NY) Sensenbrenner Mr. DAVIS of Florida. Mr. Speaker, I [Roll No. 109] Cooksey Kingston Sessions ask unanimous consent to take from AYES—186 Costello Klink Shadegg Cox Klug Shaw the Speaker’s table the bill (H.R. 3130) Abercrombie Hefner Neal Crane Knollenberg Shimkus to provide for an alternative penalty Ackerman Hilliard Ney Crapo Kucinich Shuster Allen Hinchey Nussle procedure for States that fail to meet Cubin Largent Smith (MI) Andrews Hinojosa Oberstar Federal child support data processing Cunningham Lewis (CA) Smith (NJ) Baesler Holden Obey Danner Lewis (KY) Smith (OR) requirements, to reform Federal incen- Baldacci Hooley Olver Deal Linder Smith (TX) tive payments for effective child sup- Barrett (NE) Houghton Owens DeFazio Lipinski Smith, Linda Barrett (WI) Hoyer Pallone port performance, to provide for a more DeLay Livingston Snowbarger Becerra Jackson (IL) Pascrell flexible penalty procedure for States Diaz-Balart LoBiondo Solomon Bentsen Jackson-Lee Pastor Dickey Lucas Souder that violate interjurisdictional adop- Bereuter (TX) Payne Doolittle Manzullo Spence tion requirements, to amend the Immi- Berman John Pelosi Doyle McCollum Stearns Blagojevich Johnson (CT) Pickett gration and Nationality Act to make Dreier McCrery Strickland Blumenauer Johnson (WI) Pomeroy certain aliens determined to be delin- Duncan McDade Stump Bonior Johnson, E. B. Porter Dunn McHugh Sununu quent in the payment of child support Borski Kanjorski Price (NC) Ehlers McInnis Talent inadmissible and ineligible for natu- Boswell Kennedy (MA) Rangel Ehrlich McIntosh Tauzin Boucher Kennedy (RI) Rivers ralization, and for other purposes, with Emerson McKeon Taylor (MS) Boyd Kennelly Rodriguez English McKinney Taylor (NC) Senate amendments thereto, disagree Brown (CA) Kildee Roemer Ensign Metcalf Thomas to the Senate amendments, and request Brown (FL) Kilpatrick Rothman Evans Mica Thompson Capps Kind (WI) Roukema a conference with the Senate thereon. Everett Miller (CA) Thornberry Cardin Kleczka Roybal-Allard The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there Ewing Mollohan Thune Castle Kolbe Rush Filner Moran (KS) Tiahrt objection to the request of the gen- Christensen LaFalce Sabo Foley Myrick Traficant tleman from Florida? The Chair hears Clayton LaHood Sanchez Fossella Nethercutt Upton none and, without objection, appoints Clement Lampson Sandlin Fowler Neumann Walsh Clyburn Lantos Sawyer the following conferees: Franks (NJ) Northup Wamp Coyne Latham Schumer From the Committee on Ways and Frelinghuysen Norwood Watkins Cramer LaTourette Scott Gallegly Ortiz Watts (OK) Means, for consideration of the House Cummings Lazio Serrano Ganske Oxley Weldon (FL) bill and Senate amendments and modi- Davis (FL) Leach Shays Gekas Packard Weldon (PA) Davis (IL) Lee Sherman fications committed to conference: Gibbons Pappas Weller Davis (VA) Levin Sisisky Messrs. ARCHER, SHAW, CAMP, RAN- Gillmor Parker White DeGette Lewis (GA) Skaggs Goode Paul Whitfield GEL, and LEVIN. Delahunt Lofgren Skeen Goodlatte Pease Wicker As additional conferees from the DeLauro Lowey Skelton Goodling Peterson (MN) Wolf Deutsch Luther Slaughter Committee on Education and the Goss Peterson (PA) Young (AK) Dicks Maloney (CT) Smith, Adam Workforce, for consideration of section Graham Petri Young (FL) Dingell Maloney (NY) Snyder 401 of the Senate amendment and modi- Doggett Manton Spratt NOT VOTING—24 fications committed to conference: Dooley Markey Stabenow Edwards Martinez Stenholm Bateman Fox Miller (FL) Messrs. GOODLING, FAWELL, and Engel Mascara Stokes Boehner Gonzalez Morella PAYNE. Eshoo Matsui Stupak Burr Hastert Paxon There was no objection. Clay Hastings (FL) Poshard Etheridge McCarthy (MO) Tauscher f Farr McCarthy (NY) Thurman Coble Istook Reyes Dixon Jefferson Stark Fawell McDermott Tierney APPOINTMENT OF ADDITIONAL Fazio McGovern Torres Fattah Kaptur Tanner Ford McHale Towns Forbes Meek (FL) Yates CONFEREES ON H.R. 2400, BUILD- Frank (MA) McIntyre Turner ING EFFICIENT SURFACE TRANS- Frost McNulty Velazquez b 1929 PORTATION AND EQUITY ACT OF Furse Meehan Vento 1998 Gejdenson Meeks (NY) Visclosky Ms. MCKINNEY and Mr. BLUNT Gephardt Menendez Waters The SPEAKER pro tempore. Without Gilchrest Millender- Watt (NC) changed their vote from ‘‘aye’’ to ‘‘no.’’ So the motion to instruct was re- objection, the Chair appoints the fol- Gilman McDonald Waxman lowing additional conferees on H.R. Gordon Minge Wexler jected. 2400: Green Mink Weygand The result of the vote was announced Gutierrez Moakley Wise As additional conferees from the Hall (OH) Moran (VA) Woolsey as above recorded. Committee on Science, for consider- Hamilton Murtha Wynn A motion to reconsider was laid on Harman Nadler ation of section 312(d) and Title VI of the table. the House bill and sections 1119, 1206, NOES—222 PERSONAL EXPLANATION and Title II of the Senate bill and Aderholt Ballenger Bass Mr. ISTOOK. Mr. Speaker, I regret I could modifications committed to con- Archer Barcia Berry not be present to vote on the Motion to In- Armey Barr Bilbray ference: Bachus Bartlett Bilirakis struct Conferees on IMF funding. I am attend- Mr. SENSENBRENNER, Mrs. MORELLA, Baker Barton Bishop ing a special family milestoneÐmy oldest and Mr. BROWN of California. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2297 There was no objection. would hope before the Memorial Day there; and I sat down with him and ex- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The recess. plained what we had in mind and it Speaker will appoint additional con- Mr. BONIOR. We do not know that it would be open and fair and every single ferees at a subsequent time. is going to be before the Memorial Day Member of this House will be able to The Clerk will inform the Senate of recess? Is that still in doubt? work their will as long as they have a the change in conferees. Mr. DELAY. Anything in this body is credible plan, which we can discuss. f in doubt, as the gentleman knows. We And, as I told the gentleman from Mas- are working on it. We hope the com- sachusetts (Mr. MOAKLEY), we will LEGISLATIVE PROGRAM mittees to work on the bill and bring it make those substitutes in order. (Mr. B0NIOR asked and was given to the floor as soon as we can. Mr. BONIOR. Well, we are hoping permission to address the House for 1 Mr. BONIOR. I would encourage my that when the committee meets, the minute.) friend, the gentleman from New York Committee on Rules, that the options Mr. BONIOR. Mr. Speaker, I yield to (Mr. SOLOMON), the chairman of the available for a full debate and opportu- the gentleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY) Committee on Rules, to engage in this nities to debate the wide variety of to inquire from the distinguished Ma- if he would like. Are we expecting an proposals that are out there, including jority Whip the schedule for today, the open rule on campaign finance? constitutional provisions, will be avail- rest of the week, and next week. I yield to my friend from New York. able to Members. Mr. DELAY. Mr. Speaker, I appre- Mr. SOLOMON. Yes, we are. The ar- And that is all we have asked for ciate my friend the gentleman from rangement that was made on both sides with the discharge petition that we ini- Michigan (Mr. BONIOR), the distin- of the aisle on a bipartisan basis was to tiated, and we hope that we can move guished Minority Whip, yielding to me. have a freshmen bipartisan bill as the on and have a good debate on those I am pleased to announce, Mr. Speak- base text and then allow any of the issues. er, that we have concluded legislative germane substitutes that would be of- Mr. SOLOMON. I think my colleague business for the week. The House will fered to it. will be excited and happy with the rule next meet on Monday, April 27, for a Mr. BONIOR. Repeat the last part. that the gentleman from Massachu- pro forma session. There will be no leg- Mr. SOLOMON. Would allow any ger- setts (Mr. MOAKLEY) and I will bring to islative business and no votes that day. mane substitutes that are credible to the floor. On Tuesday, April 28, the House will be allowed to be debated for at least 1 Mr. BONIOR. Mr. Speaker, I thank meet at 12:30 p.m. for the morning hour hour. my friend from Texas, and I wish both and 2 p.m. for legislative business. Mr. BONIOR. And does my colleague my colleagues a very pleasant week- On Tuesday, we will consider a num- expect the Shays-Meehan piece to be a end. ber of bills under suspension of the part of that? Mr. DELAY. I wish my colleague a rules, a list of which will be distributed Mr. SOLOMON. The Shays-Meehan, if very pleasant weekend. I hear the to Members’ offices. Members should it stays in the form it is in now, it weather is nice in Michigan. note that we do not expect any re- would be germane and it would be al- Mr. BONIOR. Great mellow moments corded votes before 5:00 on Tuesday, lowed to be brought to the floor. in the House of Representatives. April 28. Mr. BONIOR. Let me ask this ques- On Wednesday, April 29, and Thurs- tion of the gentleman. f day, April 30, the House will meet at 10 Some of us on this side of the aisle ADJOURNMENT TO MONDAY, a.m. to consider the following legisla- and on your side of the aisle think an- APRIL 27, 1998 tion: other approach that might be worth de- A bill to establish a prohibition re- bating and discussing is the constitu- Mr. DELAY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan- garding illegal drugs and the distribu- tional approach, trying to correct some imous consent that when the House ad- tion of hypodermic needles; H.R. 6, the of these problems through the con- journs today it adjourn to meet at 2 Higher Education Amendment of 1998; stitutional route, given the court rul- p.m. on Monday next. H.R. 1872, the Communications Sat- ings with respect to participation in The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there ellite Competition and Privatization the system and limitations on spend- objection to the request of the gen- Act of 1997; H.R. 3546, the National Dia- ing. tleman from Texas? logue on Social Security Act of 1998; Would the gentleman be entertaining There was no objection. and S. 1502, the District of Columbia opportunities for us to offer those type f Student Opportunity Scholarship Act of remedies to our present predica- of 1997. ment? HOUR OF MEETING ON TUESDAY, Next week, we also hope to consider Mr. SOLOMON. Constitutional APRIL 28, 1998 the conference report to the Emer- amendments are joint resolutions, as Mr. DELAY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan- gency Supplemental Appropriations the gentleman knows. And we can talk imous consent that when the House ad- Act. about it, but that is not a part of the journs on Monday, April 27, 1998, it ad- Mr. Speaker, we hope to conclude arrangement that was allowed. journ to meet at 12:30 p.m. on Tuesday, legislative business for the week by 6 Mr. DELAY. If the gentleman would April 28, 1998, for morning hour de- p.m. on Thursday, April 30. yield. Certainly the gentleman is not bates. I thank the gentleman for yielding. talking about limiting the jurisdiction The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there Mr. BONIOR. Mr. Speaker, reclaim- of judges, is he? objection to the request of the gen- Mr. BONIOR. No, that was your exer- ing my time, would the gentleman en- tleman from Texas? cise today. tertain a few questions? There was no objection. Mr. DELAY. Mr. Speaker, I would be My friend from New York said that glad to. this was an arrangement that was f Mr. BONIOR. Campaign finance re- made by both sides. Can he apprise us form. When? When do we expect to who he talked to on our side, who his DISPENSING WITH CALENDAR have that before the body? leaders talked to with respect to agree- WEDNESDAY BUSINESS ON Mr. DELAY. Well, as the gentleman ing on what the base bill was? I mean, WEDNESDAY NEXT knows, we are all excited about bring- I do not know of anybody on our side of Mr. DELAY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unan- ing campaign finance reform to the the aisle that participated in any dis- imous consent that the business in floor. cussions with him on this. order under the Calendar Wednesday Mr. BONIOR. I can tell on your face Mr. SOLOMON. I will tell the gen- rule be dispensed with on Wednesday that you are just overjoyed. tleman, I do not know who else was next. Mr. DELAY. And we hope to bring the spoken to. I see my good friend Sean The SPEAKER pro tempore. Is there campaign finance reform when it has Connery, no, that is not Sean Connery, objection to the request of the gen- had open and fair discussion sometime that is the gentleman from Massachu- tleman from Texas? in May. Certainly, I would expect we setts (Mr. MOAKLEY) standing over There was no objection. H2298 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 UNFAIRNESS IN TAX CODE: basic institution. The marriage tax penalty It means Americans are already paying MARRIAGE TAX PENALTY exacts a disproportionate toll on working more than is needed for government to do the (Mr. WELLER asked and was given women and lower income couples with chil- job we expect of it. permission to address the House for 1 dren. In many case sit is a working women's What better way to give back than to begin minute and to revise and extend his re- issue. with mom and dad and the American familyÐ marks and include extraneous mate- Let me give you an example of how the the backbone of our society. rial.) marriage tax penalty unfairly affects middle We ask that President Clinton join with Con- Mr. WELLER. Mr. Speaker, a series class married working couples. gress and make elimination of the marriage of very simple questions state why pas- For example, a machinist, at a Caterpillar tax penalty . . . a bipartisan priority. sage of the Marriage Tax Elimination manufacturing plant in my home district of Jo- Of all the challenges married couples face Act is so important. Do Americans feel liet, makes $30,500 a year in salary. His wife in providing home and hearth to America's it is fair that our Tax Code punishes is a tenured elementary school teacher, also children, the U.S. tax code should not be one marriage with a higher tax? Do Ameri- bringing home $30,500 a year in salary. If they of them. cans feel that it is fair that 21 million would both file their taxes as singles, as indi- Let's eliminate the marriage tax penalty and married working couples with two in- viduals, they would pay 15%. do it now! WHICH IS BETTER? comes pay on the average $1,400 more MARRIAGE PENALTY EXAMPLE IN THE SOUTH SUBURBS in taxes just because they are married? Note: The President’s Proposal to expand the child care tax credit will pay for only 2 Do Americans feel that it is right that School Machinist Teacher Couple to 3 weeks of child care. The Weller- our Tax Code actually provides an in- McIntosh Marriage Tax Elimination Act, centive to get divorced? Adjusted gross income ...... $30,500 $30,500 $61,000 H.R. 2456, will allow married couples to pay Of course not. Americans recognize Less personal exemption and standard deduction ...... 6,550 6,550 11,800 for 3 months of child care. the marriage tax penalty is wrong; it is Taxable income ...... 23,950 23,950 49,200 Which is better, 3 weeks or 3 months? unfair; it is immoral. They also recog- Tax liability ...... 3592.5 3592.5 8563 Marriage penalty: $1378. nize that 21 million married working CHILD CARE OPTIONS UNDER THE MARRIAGE TAX couples are paying $1,400 more. In the But if they chose to live their lives in holy ELIMINATION ACT south side of Chicago, in the south sub- matrimony, and now file jointly, their combined Average urbs, $1,400 dollars is real money for income of $61,000 pushes them into a higher Average weekly Weeks real people, one year’s tuition at Joliet tax relief day care day care tax bracket of 28 percent, producing a tax cost Junior College or 3 months of day care penalty of $1400 in higher taxes. at a local day care center. Marriage Tax Elimination Act ...... $1,400 $127 11 On average, America's married working President’s child care tax credit ...... 358 127 2.8 The Marriage Tax Elimination Act couples pay $1,400 more a year in taxes than has 238 cosponsors, a majority of the individuals with the same incomes. That's seri- f House. Let us eliminate the marriage ous money. Every day we get closer to April AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN tax penalty. Let us eliminate it now. 15th more married couples will be realizing THE BENEFICIARIES OF A BAL- Mr. Speaker, I rise today to highlight what is that they are suffering the marriage tax pen- ANCED BUDGET arguably the most unfair provision in the U.S. alty. Tax code: the marriage tax penalty. I want to Particularly if you think of it in terms of: a (Mr. ABERCROMBIE asked and was thank you for your long term interest in bring- down payment on a house or car; one year's given permission to address the House ing parity to the tax burden imposed on work- tuition at a local community college; or several for 1 minute and to revise and extend ing married couples compared to a couple liv- months' worth of quality child care at a local his remarks.) Mr. ABERCROMBIE. Mr. Speaker, I ing together outside of marriage. day care center. was privileged to be on the floor of the In January, President Clinton gave his State To that end, Congressman DAVID MCINTOSH of the Union Address outlining many of the and I have authored the Marriage Tax Elimi- House of Representatives when the things he wants to do with the budget surplus. nation Act. President’s budget passed in 1993, that A surplus provided by the bipartisan budget It would allow married couples a choice in budget at the time denounced so se- agreement which: cut waste; put America's fis- filing their income taxes, either jointly or as in- verely by many critics of the President cal house in order; and held Washington's feet dividualsÐwhichever way lets them keep and what he was trying to accomplish. to the fire to balance the budget. more of their own money. I think, some 5 years later, we found While President Clinton paraded a long list Our bill already has the bipartisan cospon- that all of the goals have been in fact of new spending totaling at least $46±$48 bil- sorship of 232 Members of the House and a accomplished with respect to balancing lion in new programsÐwe believe that a top similar bill in the Senate also enjoys wide- the budget; and, most particularly, we priority should be returning the budget surplus spread support. find ourselves in a situation with low to America's families as additional middle- It isn't enough for President Clinton to sug- interest rates and the ability of people class tax relief. gest tax breaks for child care. The President's to take advantage of the home interest This Congress has given more tax relief to child care proposal would help a working cou- deduction they might not otherwise the middle class and working poor than any ple afford, on average, three weeks of day have had. Congress of the last half century. care. Elimination of the marriage tax penalty As a result, Mr. Speaker, I hope there I think the issue of the marriage penalty can would give the same couple the choice of pay- is a recognition that this was the right best be framed by asking these questions: Do ing for three months of child care or address- course to take, that the American peo- Americans feel it's fair that our tax code im- ing other family priorities. After all, parents ple have been the beneficiaries, that poses a higher tax penalty on marriage? Do know better than Washington what their family home ownership has been advanced, Americans feel it's fair that the average mar- needs. and that these 5 years provide a record ried working couple pays almost $1,400 more We fondly remember the 1996 State of the of accomplishment of which we can all in taxes than a couple with almost identical in- Union address when the President declared be proud. come living together outside of marriage? Is it emphatically that, quote ``the era of big gov- Mr. Speaker, Today, many if not every right that our tax code provides an incentive to ernment is over.'' Member of Congress is going to receive a visit get divorced? We must stick to our guns, and stay the by realtors from our districts. In fact, today the only form one can file to course. I look forward to meeting today with the avoid the marriage tax penalty is paperwork There never was an American appetite for members of the Hawaii Association of Real- for divorce. And that is just wrong! big government. tors on their annual trip to Washington. Since 1969, our tax laws have punished But there certainly is for reforming the exist- I know one of their top priorities is preserv- married couples when both spouses work. For ing way government does business. ing the home mortgage interest deduction. I no other reason than the decision to be joined And what better way to show the American stand with them completely on this issue. in holy matrimony, more than 21 million cou- people that our government will continue along As the House moves closer to developing a ples a year are penalized. They pay more in the path to reform and prosperity than by tax bill in the months ahead, it is vitally impor- taxes than they would if they were single. Not eliminating the marriage tax penalty. tant that we preserve the mortgage interest only is the marriage penalty unfair, it's wrong Ladies and gentlemen, we are on the verge deduction. It is fundamental of fulfilling the that our tax code punishes society's most of running a surplus. It's basic math. American dream of home ownership. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2299 I am concerned that proposals for a flat tax earned dollar that the American family budget by taking the Social Security or a national sales tax would endanger the makes today goes to the government. surplus and not spend it on government mortgage interest deduction. No wonder our families are in strain. spending. If the gentleman will work The mortgage interest deduction in impor- No wonder it takes one parent to work with me, I guarantee we will come up tant to Hawaii, where the average cost of a for the Government while the other with a budget that will accomplish single family home is $312,000. parent works for the family. that. I think I have the credibility to It is estimated that eliminating the mortgage But Democrats, on the other hand, do that. interest deduction could cause the value of ex- love to raise taxes. One prominent f Democrat admitted that Democrats isting homes to drop between 20±30 percent. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a As we in Hawaii face our greatest economic just do not like to cut taxes, they like previous order of the House, the gentle- challenge since statehood, elimination of the to raise taxes. They think cutting woman from the District of Columbia mortgage interest deduction would be a disas- taxes is irresponsible. (Ms. NORTON) is recognized for 5 min- ter. b 1945 utes. Homeowners would suffer a disastrous loss (Ms. NORTON addressed the House. of equity. Thousands of realtors, construction They think raising taxes is respon- Her remarks will appear hereafter in workers, and employees of financial institu- sible. Can we remember the debates of the Extension of Remarks.) tions would lose their livelihoods. 1995 and 1996? Everybody said we can- Mr. Speaker, I urge may colleagues to join not cut taxes and balance the budget; f me in fighting any attempt to eliminate the that is irrelevant, and it is crazy. Well, The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a home mortgage deduction. we did it last year. We cut taxes on the previous order of the House, the gentle- f American family. We had the first bal- woman from Maryland (Mrs. MORELLA) anced budget agreement in I do not is recognized for 5 minutes. SPECIAL ORDERS know how many years. (Mrs. MORELLA addressed the The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. But this is why they are usually re- House. Her remarks will appear here- LAHOOD). Under the Speaker’s an- sponsible for increasing those taxes. after in the Extension of Remarks.) Now, make no mistake about it, the nounced policy of January 7, 1997, and f under a previous order of the House, Democrat budget not only increased the following Members will be recog- taxes, it also increased spending and The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a nized for 5 minutes each. deepened the deficit. Now the Repub- previous order of the House, the gentle- woman from Indiana (Ms. CARSON) is f lican budget, the budget we passed in 1995, cut taxes and balanced the budg- recognized for 5 minutes. REGARDING THE PRESIDENT’S et. (Ms. CARSON addressed the House. TAX PARTY So the lesson here is very simple. If Her remarks will appear hereafter in The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a we want higher taxes and more Wash- the Extension of Remarks.) previous order of the House, the gen- ington spending and higher deficits, f tleman from Texas (Mr. DELAY) is rec- then the American people need to vote ognized for 5 minutes. for the Democrats. If we want lower PUT SOCIAL SECURITY FIRST Mr. DELAY. Mr. Speaker, we would taxes and a balanced budget and sen- The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a like to have gone into recess a few min- sible government spending, then they previous order of the House, the gen- utes ago, but the staff of the House has should vote for the Republicans. tleman from Michigan (Mr. SMITH) is convinced me otherwise. But we want- So I hope my friends are enjoying recognized for 5 minutes. ed to go into recess to give time for our themselves down at the White House Mr. SMITH of Michigan. Mr. Speak- Democrat colleagues to go down to the tonight. But their party’s commitment er, I think it is reasonable to carry on White House so that they could cele- to higher taxes is no party. the discussion of what has happened in brate. Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. the last 5 years. I was elected, and my And why are they celebrating? They Speaker, will my friend the gentleman first year in Congress was 1993. In that are celebrating those Members of Con- from Texas yield? year we had a deficit under the unified gress who voted for the largest tax in- Mr. DELAY. I will be glad to yield. budget of $322 billion. In the next, that Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. crease in the history of this country. year for the budget for 1994, President Speaker, I am not going to argue with We want to make sure they all were Clinton sent us a budget with a deficit the gentleman on the tax increases, able to get down to the White House in of $265 billion, a deficit in terms of a but it is misleading to the American a timely fashion. Included in that unified budget. people to say that this Congress has group are several former Members of So it was not only on the $265 billion passed a balanced budget. They did not. Congress who lost because of that vote. that we were short, it was also what we Mr. DELAY. Well, the gentleman were short borrowing from the Social I am not kidding. This is not April reads a different budget. Fool’s Day. This is actually happening Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. The Security Trust Fund and the other down at the White House as we speak. budget plan that you passed—— trust funds of this country. Do not worry, though. There will not Mr. DELAY. Mr. Speaker, I have the I think, number one, we have got to be any Republicans invited to the time, and I am reclaiming the time and start being very honest with the Amer- White House tonight because not one I am going to answer the gentleman’s ican people of what has happened. Republican voted for the largest tax in- statement. When the Republicans took the major- crease in history and so none of us got Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. But, ity of this House in 1995, we changed an invitation. please, the American public needs to the budget and started rescissions and But down in my office right now we know we are not there yet. started cutting down spending, getting are having hot dogs and pizza to cele- The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. rid of one-third of the staff in this Con- brate the fact that we voted for tax LAHOOD). The gentleman from Texas gress, cutting out committees, cutting cuts last year. We are going to vote for has the time. out up to 200 different agencies and de- tax cuts again this year. We are going Mr. DELAY. Mr. Speaker, the gen- partments and divisions to try to reach to vote for tax cuts again next year. tleman does not know what unified a balanced budget. We will vote for tax cuts every year we budgeting is. The gentleman obviously The Republicans really were are in the majority. does not know. I agree with the gen- demagogued in that election that even- And we will continue to want to cut tleman that we have a huge surplus tually followed because we were doing taxes for America’s working families. that we are spending on government all sorts of budget cuts, cutting down Because we understand that over 50 spending. But if we take all the spend- on the spending of the Federal Govern- percent of a family’s income goes to ing and all the tax revenues, then we ment in order to get a balanced budget. the Government. If you add up State, are in surplus. We ended up winning. We ended up in local and Federal taxes and the cost of I want, as the gentleman wants, I am the spring of 1996 sending a reconcili- regulation, 50 cents out of every hard- sure, I want to make it a true balanced ation bill to the President saying the H2300 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 operational budget, to keep govern- Now the average age of mortality, Day activities we have organized for ment open, to keep it operating, is not the life-span today at birth is 74 years our colleagues on Capitol Hill next going to go into effect, Mr. President, old for a male, 76 years old for a fe- week. unless you send Congress a balanced male. But if we live to be 65 years old, Our Nation’s daughters need to know budget. then on the average we are going to who they are and what they can be, Finally, the President did send Con- live another 20 years. Let us get at it. which will exceed far beyond any soci- gress a balanced budget, and now we Let us really put Social Security first. etal limitations that were placed on have moved ahead. We have reframed f their foremothers and to some degree the debate in Washington, D.C. so both continue to this day. TAKE OUR DAUGHTERS TO WORK sides of the aisle are now saying, great, This knowledge and self-confidence DAY we need a balanced budget. Let us be help them develop more ambitious more frugal in our spending. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a dreams, strive to take on more chal- We have come a long ways, but we previous order of the House, the gentle- lenges, and become valuable leaders in have still got a long ways to go. We woman from California (Ms. America’s future. We look forward to have got a long ways to go because we MILLENDER-MCDONALD) is recognized next week, Take Our Daughters to are still borrowing the money that is for 5 minutes. Work Day. coming in surplus from the Social Se- Ms. MILLENDER-MCDONALD. Mr. f curity Trust Fund to use for other gov- Speaker, I rise today to commemorate The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a ernment spending, and that has got to Take Our Daughters to Work Day. The previous order of the House, the gen- stop. Capitol Hill activities for Take Our tleman from California (Mr. ROHR- Here is my proposal of how we stop Daughters to Work Day have been re- ABACHER) is recognized for 5 minutes. it. I introduced the only Social Secu- scheduled for next Thursday because of (Mr. ROHRABACHER addressed the rity bill that has been introduced in the D.C. schools having academic test- House. His remarks will appear here- the last session of Congress three years ing today. after in the Extensions of Remarks.) ago and again this session that has Today many fathers and mothers been scored by the Social Security Ad- took their daughters to work. Take f ministration to keep Social Security Our Daughters to Work Day was cre- The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a solvent. So if we really want to put So- ated in 1993 to help maintain that es- previous order of the House, the gen- cial Security first, let us stop talking sential feeling of self-worth and en- tleman from Iowa (Mr. LATHAM) is rec- about it and start doing it. hance their understanding of what is ognized for 5 minutes. Now that we are looking at a surplus possible and what they can accomplish (Mr. LATHAM addressed the House. in terms of the unified budget that is if they put forth the effort. His remarks will appear hereafter in coming in this year, and the estimates This is an important day for the mil- the Extensions of Remarks.) are as high now as a $40 to $50 billion lions of girls who are provided with the f surplus. Let us start taking that sur- rare and much-needed opportunity to NATIONAL CRIME VICTIMS RIGHTS plus money and allowing workers in meet successful professional women WEEK this country to have their own per- and envision the immense possibilities sonal retirement savings account that that stand before them. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a will partially offset their fixed benefits Numerous studies have shown how previous order of the House, the gen- and Social Security eventually when many girls exhibit a strong and dis- tleman from Texas (Mr. BRADY) is rec- they are ready to retire. tinct sense of self-confidence until they ognized for 5 minutes. But giving these workers some of reach the age of 11. Then there is a sud- Mr. BRADY. Mr. Speaker, this week this surplus money that is coming in, den drop in self-esteem, a lowered is a special time in our country. It is which is, after all, overtaxation, allow- designated as National Crime Victims ing them to see the creation of wealth, sense of self-worth, and intense feelings of insecurity about their own judg- Rights Week. It is an opportunity to allowing them to see the magic of try to begin to balance the scales of compounding interest where our money ments and emotions. Take Our Daugh- justice that are weighted so heavily in can double every 4 or 6, 8 years; and ters to Work Day is an effective way of favor of the accused and so lightly when we are ready for retirement at maintaining their self-esteem. weighted in favor of the victims of vio- age 65, we are going to see much more Last year, 48.3 million adults said lent crime. money in those funds. that their company and their spouse’s So with even a partial offset, in my company participated in this special I am proud to be an original cospon- bill that I call for using these surplus day. In addition, three in ten adults sor of a constitutional amendment pro- monies to beef up Social Security, to said that they or their spouse person- posed by the gentleman from Illinois start down the road of solvency, I am ally participated by taking a girl to (Mr. HYDE), Congressman and Chair- suggesting that for each $2 these people their workplace, which equals 15.4 mil- man of the House Committee on the earn in the investment market of lim- lion people. Judiciary, that attempts to restore and ited investments, of so-called safe in- Clearly, this is a day not only for provide really for the first time in this vestments, for every $2 they earn there this Nation’s daughters but for parents, country solid, irreversible rights for be a $1 offset in their Social Security employers, and people who understand victims of violent crime. benefits, so there is really a safety net. the value of investing in and training What this constitutional amendment But what we have got to do is make the younger generation to become bet- does is that it provides that victims sure that existing retirees continue to ter, stronger, and more effective mem- have the right to be given notice, to have the benefits that have been prom- bers of the labor force in the years know when there are public hearings ised to them, but at the same time we ahead. related to the crime in which they have make provisions that our kids and our As we approach the new millennium, been victimized, to be heard if they are grandkids and our kids’ grandkids and Take Our Daughters to Work Day and present, and if they are not, to submit great-grandkids can have an oppor- similar activities which promote a written statement at all public pro- tunity to have even more revenue re- reaching out to young girls and women ceedings where a sentencing occurs or turns in their retirement years. will become even more essential. By a plea bargain is agreed to or there is Look, we have got a demographic sit- the turn of the century, 8 out of every a prospect that the criminal will be re- uation where there are fewer workers 10 women between the ages of 25 and 54 leased from custody. paying in their FICA taxes to more and will be on the job because they want It provides the right under this con- more retirees. When we started out in and, in most cases, need to work. For stitutional amendment to be notified if 1935 we had an average age life-span of the first time in history, most new jobs that convict is released or escapes from 62 years old. That meant most people will require education or training be- custody, and because justice needs to that paid into Social Security all their yond high school. be sure and swift, to seek relief as vic- working life never received any bene- I hope that Members will participate tims from these unreasonable delays fits. in the Take Our Daughters to Work related to the crime; the right to have April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2301 restitution, because for many of vic- is basically abandoned and empty. It is ginia. Go down and see the farm and tims of violent crime, especially if they time that jurors see the victims of what he does with his farm, how well lose a spouse or someone who is a these crimes so that as they weigh the manicured it is, the animals that are source of income and revenue for their evidence, as they weigh the sentence, taken care of, how he takes care of the family, not only do they lose a loved they understand that these are real environment, the soil, the water. one but they lose the financial support, people whose lives they affect. And you come back to Colorado. Go the ability to send their children to I support this constitutional amend- back up to Meeker again, go visit Bart college, the ability to spend time and ment and urge my colleagues to do so and Mary Strang. They have been there have a house in which their children as well. a long time, these Strang families, and those who survive the victim can f long, long time. See how they take live. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a care of the land, see how protective This constitutional amendment en- previous order of the House, the gen- they are of the environmental issues. sures that the victim’s safety is always tleman from Washington (Mr. Go back up to Evergreen, Colorado, considered when a parole board or simi- METCALF) is recognized for 5 minutes. to Bill and Leslie Volbright. That is lar organization is looking at releasing (Mr. METCALF addressed the House. the utilization of conservation ease- a criminal in custody at whatever ments so that they can protect their level. Finally, because rights mean His remarks will appear hereafter in the Extensions of Remarks.) land into the future. nothing if we do not know of them, in Or if you want to, go back to Grand f this constitutional amendment we en- Junction, Colorado, Doug and Cathy sure that victims are notified of these RANCHERS IN COLORADO KNOW King. I go up there every year to bugle rights early in the process. HOW TO TAKE CARE OF THE LAND elk. Some of the finest elk in the coun- As obvious as these rights are, the try are up in that area, beautiful aspen fact of the matter is, today in America The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the gen- trees. You should go up there sometime very few enjoy them. With the excep- in the fall, should go and ride in the tion of some enlightened States and tleman from Colorado (Mr. MCINNIS) is recognized for 5 minutes. pickup truck with Doug and see how some individual communities, for the much he cares about that land, how most part the victims have no rights in Mr. MCINNIS. Mr. Speaker, I woke up this morning and, doing the usual fragile they are with the land. these proceedings, are ignored in the Go to Carbondale, Colorado to Tom process, are left behind, bewildered at a morning, looked at the newspapers and read some of the comments about and Ruth Perry’s ranch; to their in- time in their life when they are laws, Tom and Rossie Turnbull’s. Look stunned by what is occurring to them. Earth Day yesterday, and I was sur- prised at some of the remarks that at what they do with their land and Our family has had some experience how protective they are. in this matter. When I was 12, my fa- were made that seem to want to imply to the American people or convince the You will find three things in common ther was murdered in a South Dakota with all of these families. Obviously courtroom. While I was young at the American people that the way to pro- tect our environment is to have a larg- the first thing in common is they care time, and we do not remember every- about that land. They love that land. thing as distinctly, I recall our family er and bigger government in Washing- ton, D.C.; that the people in Washing- They know how important the land going through the trial, through the was for generations before them. They conviction, through the sentencing. ton, D.C., truly know better than those of you out there who own property, know how important that land is for And like a lot of families, we were be- generations ahead of them. fore the parole board trying to keep who have worked property, who work The second thing they all have in dad’s killer behind bars. your land and live your land; that the common is no one in Washington, D.C., We have been through it. The fact of people in Washington, D.C., really no one in Washington, D.C., no Envi- the matter is that no one ever expects should be trusted with your water, ronmental Protection Agency, nobody it to happen to them. They are sure it they should be trusted with utilization from Earth First or the National Si- only occurs in someone else’s neighbor- of your land, they should be trusted erra Club had to march onto this prop- hood, someone else’s family, in some- with all of the decisions to be made erty and tell these people how to care one else’s community. But the fact of about the environment. for that land. Nobody from Washing- the matter is, in this America there So briefly tonight I wanted to talk to ton, D.C. or Earth First or these orga- are two classes of Americans: those you about a few people that live on the nizations had to tell them about the fu- who have been touched by violent land. ture generations. Nobody in Washing- crime and those who someday will be. David and Sue Ann Smith, the Smith ton, D.C. or Earth First or any of those This constitutional amendment is de- ranch located in Meeker, Colorado, programs know anything about the signed to protect those who have not that ranch is what they call a centen- past generations of this land. yet been victimized by a crime, to nial ranch, which means one family has make sure that at a time in their life been on that ranch more than a hun- The other thing that is in common, that they never thought that they dred years. In the Smith case, it is one they are all Republicans. would be involved in, when justice of the most beautifully managed Now when I read the papers this seems so distant and remote, that they ranches that I have been on, and I have morning, the Democratic Party seems get the one thing in life that they most spent a lot of time on it. It is a centen- to think that through big government, need at that time, which is justice. nial family, they care about it, they through a larger EPA, through organi- make their living off that land. zations like Earth First, that that is b 2000 Down in Carbondale, Colorado, the way we ought to control and pro- Last year, I think in the year before, former Congressman Mike Strang, tect our environment. Well, I am tell- many of us watched the O.J. Simpson Mike and Kit Strang have their ranch ing you they have got it all wrong. trial. We watched and read about the down there. It looks out over Mount What they need to do is just take a victims of the Oklahoma City bombing, Sopris. They take care of that land as few minutes, go talk to their local and we had to pass a Federal law to en- if it were their own child. members, go talk to the local ranchers, sure that the victims of Oklahoma City You go back up to Glenwood Springs, go talk to the men and women that bombing could be present in the court- Colorado, Al Strouband’s. Al has a make their livings off farms and room when that trial occurred. In most beautiful ranch up there, Storm King ranches. Take enough time to ride States all that a shrewd defense attor- Ranch. He takes care of it. You should around on horseback or in a pickup or ney has to do is identify the family or see what he does with the vegetation, walk around, whatever you want to do. the victim’s family as a possible wit- you should see what he does with the That land, see how they care for it, see ness in a courtroom case and excludes utilization of the water, how he takes how they talk about it, see how they them, leaving the courtroom where the care of the game. cuddle it like it is a small child, see accused has a family behind them and And not only does Al have a ranch in how they talk about future genera- full of supporters and where the victim Colorado, he also has a farm in Vir- tions, and then reassess whether it is H2302 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 necessary for Washington, D.C. to im- DUNCAN HUNTER. He is the chairman of equally awesome responsibility to pay pose their excess regulations, to im- the Subcommittee on Military Pro- our bills. We have an equally awesome pose some of the utopian ideas and in curement of the Committee on Na- responsibility to be honest with the many cases to drive these people off tional Security. One of DUNCAN’s great American people, make them aware of that land. misfortunes is trying to replace an the problem and then, as their elected You know it is very easy in the East aging fleet for the Navy, replace aging representatives, both Democrats and to tell them what to do in the West be- airplanes for the Air Force, on a very, Republicans, let us solve them. cause there is not much government very small budget. And quite frankly, f land in the East. In the West, my dis- if we were not squandering a billion trict for example, my district, geo- dollars a day on interest on the na- CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM graphically larger than the State of tional debt, we could be buying a de- The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a Florida, 20-some-million acres of Fed- stroyer a day with enough change left previous order of the House, the gen- eral land. We know about that land. We over to buy about 20 Blackhawk heli- tleman from Arkansas (Mr. HUTCH- do not need Washington, D.C. to tell copters. INSON) is recognized for 5 minutes. us. That is why it is important that we Mr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Speaker, I Sometime take a deep breath and go balance our budget, that is why it is want to take this opportunity to ad- visit a ranch in Colorado. important we be honest with the Amer- dress an important issue that really f ican people. And it is not a Democrat took a different spin this week. As we or Republican issue because, doggone AN AWESOME RESPONSIBILITY entered this week in legislative busi- it, they are both guilty in creating the ness, I did not expect campaign finance The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a debt, and the only way we are going to reform to be an issue that was going to previous order of the House, the gen- get out of debt is working together. be on the front lines of legislative busi- tleman from Mississippi (Mr. TAYLOR) I am sorry to say that the Cato Insti- ness this week nor next week. is recognized for 5 minutes. tute can back up everything that I But it took a turn this week, and it Mr. TAYLOR of Mississippi. Mr. have said. Actually, overall spending in goes to show the legislative process Speaker, let me first apologize to the the first three years that the Repub- works, and I want to express my appre- wonderful people who work for this licans have run Congress has increased ciation, I think the appreciation of the House. I am sorry we are keeping you at a greater rate than the last three late, I am sorry I am contributing to American public, that the leadership years that the Democrats were in the indicated their willingness to have a that. Congress. They are both wrong. It is As far as the American people, I want full and fair and open debate on cam- wrong for both of us. paign finance reform. The procedure to apologize for the expense of this But defense spending has either that has been outlined could not be speech and the others. It costs about shrunk or been frozen under both, and more fair and open than having a base $8,000 an hour for special orders. that is equally wrong. There are kids bill that comes to the floor of the I tried when the Democrats were in today flying around in 30-year-old CH– House, which is the bipartisan Cam- the majority to do away with it, to 46s, 30-year-old CH–47s. Almost a thou- paign Integrity Act, the freshman bill have us use a room upstairs, let these sand UH–1 Hueys have been grounded that is a bipartisan bill that addresses good people, approximately 80 House because we finally came to the conclu- campaign finance reform, and then it is employees, go home. There is no reason sion that it just was not fair, and above subject to amendments. It is a full and for these 80 people to be here, there is all it just was not safe to send those no reason for the clock to keep run- kids up. But people are still flying old free open debate that no one can quar- ning. And I hope that some of my Re- F–14s, still flying old C–103s, and they rel about as to its fairness. publican friends who are equally cost- are still going to sea in old ships. That is what the American people ex- conscious would work with me on end- That is why it is important that, pect, and that is what they have re- ing this practice. number one, we face up to the reality ceived, and I think it is a tribute to the Mr. Speaker, there is a room upstairs that we are still not balancing the leadership for recognizing this, re- we can use. We do not have to keep 80 budget, that we are borrowing from the sponding to it in a very fair fashion. people around. My worries are not so trust funds, and it does not get any b 2015 great they need to be transcribed, and easier to get out of that hole for a lot Now, they have selected the fresh- I can always ask that they be included of reasons, but the biggest reason is as man bill, it is called. It is really the re- in the RECORD if I think it is worth- a Nation we are getting older. As a Na- sult of a freshman task force, as the while. tion we are getting fewer and fewer base bill that would come to the House I am sorry Mr. DELAY left. I do like people who are taxpayers and more and on campaign reform. If you look at this Mr. DELAY. But I do feel like he said more people who are receiving benefits. some things that need to be clarified, My dad a couple of days ago turned 77 bill, it is bipartisan in nature, but it is and I want the American people to years old, and I will use his generation also bipartisan in process, and that is know where I am coming from as I as an example. When my dad was a why it is so unique. make these remarks. teenager in the 1930’s, there were 19 Let me talk just for a second about I have been here almost nine years, working people for every retiree. One how that bill, I suspect, might have and in those nine years have come to hundred years later, in the year 2030, it been chosen. If you go back to the be- the conclusion that both the political has been estimated that there will only ginning of this Congress, the two re- parties have degraded themselves to be 1.2 working people for every retiree. spective freshmen classes, the Demo- the point where they are not much If we do not pay our bills now, we will crats and the Republicans, said let’s more than organizations that raise never pay our bills because the ratio of work together on an issue, and they money and peddle influence. So I hope workers to retirees continues to de- choose finance campaign reform. that no one will take this as a partisan cline. It gets only worse all the way A task force of six Republicans and speech, but merely somebody who cares out to at least halfway through the six Democrats met together over the about his country and wants to fix it. next century. course of 5 months, heard experts on I regret that Mr. DELAY would lead So what I am going to ask Mr. DELAY constitutional law. We heard from the the public to believe that we have a on one side, what I am going to ask my Democratic Party and heard from the balanced budget, because we do not, fellow Democrats on the other, let us Republican Party as to what they be- and I do consider our Nation’s debt as not claim victory in the budget be- lieved needed to be done. the greatest threat to our Nation. I re- cause we have not even started. We are We heard from the American people. gret to tell the American people that $5.5 trillion in debt, and we do not need We heard from academia. We heard we are now spending a billion dollars a the Democrats over here or the dema- from everyone imaginable; from the day on interest on that debt and it is gogues over there misleading the pub- unions to the business side. And from growing. lic. those hearings we learned a lot, but we A couple yards away from me is a We have an awesome responsibility also came up with a proposal. We said real neat human being by the name of to defend this nation. We have an we need to avoid the extremes. That is April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2303 what has killed this issue time and American public, and we have done a below 20 percent consistently, which time again in Congress. Avoid the ex- great service. In addition, we have a means it only takes people modifying tremes. good chance of passing meaningful re- their behavior just a little in terms of Let us concentrate on what we can form, send it to the Senate, and let us a spouse working a little bit less or in agree on, the consensus, the common see what they do. terms of a worker spending a little bit ground. And that resulted in this bill f more time with the family to all of a that was produced by this task force, sudden have us drop below the 20 per- PUTTING SECURITY BACK INTO but now has over 70 cosponsors, both cent figure. Republicans and Democrats, both Lib- SOCIAL SECURITY If we did, the surpluses would go out erals and Conservatives. It crosses the The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. the window. political spectrum. Not only is it fair, COOKSEY). Under a previous order of What this means to me as we begin but it is an improvement in our sys- the House, the gentleman from South to talk about the issue of Social Secu- tem. Carolina (Mr. SANFORD) is recognized rity is how do we have security with Now, it is not just a freshman bill. for 5 minutes. Social Security? Because what is inter- We have representatives all across the Mr. SANFORD. Mr. Speaker, I would esting to me about the Social Security spectrum, every class that has spon- like to follow up on what my colleague debate, is the President in this very sored this, that has joined in support of from Mississippi was talking about, Chamber said at the State of the Union this. We need more support for this bill and that is the surplus. that we ought to reserve every dollar as it moves to the floor. As we all may know, theologians of surplus for Social Security, and yet, What does the bill do? First of all, I have a thing, a word, a concept, if you given the way the trains have been think it is very important to say that will, called original sin, and the idea is running in this town recently, it seems this is not a Republican leadership bill; from original sin all other sins flow. to me if $50 or 60 billion comes to it is not a Democrat bill. It is a biparti- And when Washington these days be- Washington, there is a good likelihood san bill in process, in form and result, gins talking about the idea of surplus, that that money will be spent. And if it and I hope that we can continue that it seems to me that that is the original is spent, it is not saved for Social Secu- process as we move through the House. sin in Washington, because I just have rity. This bill, first of all, bans the cor- real questions about the idea of us real- So I think that one of the things we porate money from the multinational ly running a surplus. really ought to begin looking at is the corporations that comes in huge sums I have got a question from the stand- idea of the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. to our national political parties. It point of accounting. I mean, in the KASICH) of Social Security Plus. Quite bans the contributions in the same President’s budget that was sent up to simply, that would be taking the sur- form from the labor unions that go to the Congress, it listed in it a $9.5 bil- plus money, rebating it back to every- the national political parties. So it is lion surplus, and yet the national debt body that pays Social Security taxes, balanced in banning soft money to the would go up by $176 billion. That is the and then letting them put that money national parties. equivalent of saying I am going to pay in their own Social Security Plus ac- The second thing it does, besides re- off $95 on my credit card balance, but count. ducing the influence of special inter- my credit card balance is going to go The advantage for me of that idea is ests, it increases the role of individuals up by $1,700. that by having it in your own account, in our campaign process. It increases Mathematically that is impossible, and we are not talking about a lot of their contribution limits. It says they with the exception of anyplace but money, about $500, based on the size of should have a greater role in it. It re- Washington, D.C. Because in Washing- the surplus in your account each year, duces special interests, increases the ton, D.C., if you were to break out the and over the next 6 years, that would role of individuals, and then it in- budget, what you would see is $103.5 be $3,000. But by having that money in creases the role of the American public billion borrowed from Social Security, your account, Washington cannot by giving them more information, and as you add up the other trust fund reach in and borrow that money. more information on who is affecting borrowings, it comes to this $176 billion I think we really need to begin look- the campaigns, how much money is number. ing at that kind of security when we being spent, what groups are spending That number actually may be a little talk about the word ‘‘Social Security’’ that money. And that is the informa- less than that because the surplus is if we are serious about, A, having every tion that they need to make the cor- supposed to be greater, but the point is dollar of surplus go toward Social Se- rect decisions on campaigns, and who that is not the way you do accounting curity, and, B, on the whole concept of are trying to influence them. back home in South Carolina, or Ne- protecting Social Security. It is a basic bill that is good cam- vada, or Illinois, or anywhere else. f paign reform, that is true reform, and That is not conventional accounting. I am delighted to have an opportunity Too, I think the surplus is somewhat STATE OF MILITARY for it to come to the floor, subject to fictitious simply from the standpoint PREPAREDNESS IN AMERICA amendment, as we debate this issue. of economy. The $225 billion that plugs The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a So I think that we have come a long the gap from where the Congress was previous order of the House, the gen- way. I look forward to the next 3 or 4 and where the White House was built tleman from California (Mr. HUNTER) is weeks as we debate ideas and we have on the economy continuing to roll recognized for 5 minutes. disagreements; both on the Republican ahead, and I have serious reservations Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Speaker, we are and Democrat side. But what would be on it being able to continue to roll getting closer and closer to the anni- more fair to the American public than ahead. versary of the invasion of South Korea, to debate ideas on the floor of this The third way, I guess, I have ques- and I reflected back the other day House and let the majority rule gov- tions on the sustainability of the sur- when I was at my aunt and uncle’s ern? I think that is what democracy is plus would be simply on the basis of house in Fort Worth, Texas, because on about. That is what this institution is what we send to Washington every one of their dressers they have a photo- about. year. We are at a post-World War II graph of a young marine; his name was I addressed some eighth graders over high in terms of the amount of money Son Stilwell, a Marine Lieutenant the break at Alma High School. They that people send in taxes to Washing- killed in Korea, one of the 50,000-some asked me some questions. One was, ton, D.C. casualties KIA that we suffered in that why did you want to go to Congress? This last year we hit 20.1 percent of conflict. The answer was to reduce cynicism and GDP sent by hard-working Americans I reflected on that this pending anni- distrust of our institutions of govern- to Washington. Now, that was only met versary. We are on the eve of when I ment. or exceeded basically at the height of listened to our Secretary of Defense What we can do by having this full World War II. In 1944, we hit 20.9 per- and President Clinton’s defense leaders and fair debate is to increase con- cent, and in 1945 we hit 20.4 percent of as they presented a declining defense fidence, to increase respect by the GDP. Other than that, it has been budget to the U.S. Congress. H2304 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 The situation, I think, is a lot like it simple questions, such as which of you On Wednesday, all day in the Ray- was in those days in 1950 before that predicted the Falklands war, none of burn courtyard off of New Jersey Ave- June invasion. To set the stage, Mr. them could raise their hands. When we nue, we will display a 40-foot-long scud Speaker, we have come down, we have asked which of you predicted the down- missile, a missile that, in fact, was pro- slashed defense and cut down on our fall of the Soviet Union, that was in all duced by the Iraqis with assistance forces dramatically since Desert the papers. None of them could raise from North Korea; that is the same Storm. We have cut from 18 Army divi- their hands. missile that, in fact, killed American sions that we had in 1991 to only 10 And when we asked them which of troops, the only major loss of life of today. That is, incidentally and coinci- you predicted the invasion of Kuwait, our troops in this decade. one of them actually said before or dentally, the same number of Army di- b 2030 visions we had when Korea was in- after the armored columns started vaded. moving? We said, no; before the ar- That missile is now being sold around We have gone from 24 to only 13 mored columns started moving. None the world. Rogue nations are purchas- fighter air wings, so we have cut our of them had predicted the invasion of ing it. It is still a threat to this coun- air power almost in half under the Kuwait. It is not that they are not try that we cannot defend against. Clinton Administration. And we have smart, it is not that they don’t have a Along with a display of that Scud cut our naval vessels from 546 to 333, lot of resources at their disposal. The missile, which will be available for in- about a 40 percent cut in naval vessels. facts are that unexpected things hap- spection by our colleagues in the House Now, the theme in 1950 and the rea- pen in this world. and the other body and by the Amer- son that so many defense leaders from We are still living in a very unstable ican public at that courtyard off of the then Lewis Johnson, then Secretary of world, and we have a declining military Rayburn Building on New Jersey Ave- Defense, right on down, the theme that to face that unstable world with. One nue and C Street, will be a demonstra- they propounded as they presented this reason we were able to bring home to tion of one of our responses. The Army declining defense budget to the U.S. the American people so many of the will, in fact, have a full, active deploy- Congress, and said that it was ade- soldiers and sailors and marines who ment of a THAAD battery. THAAD is quate, was that somehow we were the went over to Desert Storm, and the the Theater High Altitude Area De- dominating Nation of the world with reason we didn’t have to fill up those fense System that we are developing respect to high-tech, and nobody would 40,000 body bags we took with us in for our Army to deploy in theaters mess with us. Of course, we had at that fighting the fourth largest army in the around the world to defeat missiles time the nuclear weapon. Nobody else world, was because we were so strong like the Iraqi Scud missile. presumably had that until a few years we won the war decisively in a very The THAAD battery will allow Mem- later. short period of time with very limited bers to see firsthand the success we Yet we were shocked in June when American casualties. have had to date in building what will the North Koreans invaded South Mr. Speaker, we are taking a big become a very capable system. The un- Korea and almost pushed the South chance today, because under the Clin- fortunate part of this is that it is going Korean forces and the Americans that ton Administration’s leadership, we to take several years before this sys- tried to stem the tide into the sea. We have cut our military almost in half. If tem will be available. But I want to en- the balloon goes up today, we cannot tried to hold them up at the Osan Pass, courage Members to walk over to the win a Desert Storm war as decisively the 25th Infantry Division that we flew Rayburn courtyard and see for them- as we did just a few years ago. in, MacArthur flew in from Japan, was selves how far we have come in terms cut to ribbons. The commander, Gen- f of building a comprehensive system. eral Dean was, in fact, captured by SECURITY POSTURE IN AMERICA In fact, it has been this body, both North Korean forces. THREATENED Democrats and Republicans, over the past 3 years that have increased fund- We held the Pusan Peninsula by our The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a ing for these programs, at a time when toenails and finally started to push it previous order of the House, the gen- the administration wanted to contin- up to the northern part of the penin- tleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. ually decimate and decrease funding sula. Then, interestingly, the theme WELDON) is recognized for 5 minutes. that the leaders had that nobody would Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania. Mr. for these very important programs. mess with us because we had the high Speaker, I rise as we complete legisla- The second event will occur the sec- technology and the nuclear weapon was tive work this week, in anticipation of ond day, on Thursday of next week, further devastated when the Com- next week when we will begin the when 2,000 of America’s finest Amer- munist Chinese invaded South Korea. markup process for one of the largest ican fire and domestic defenders, our The point isn’t that we are any bills we do each year, and that is the emergency services personnel, will dumber than we were in 1950 and/or defense authorization bill. As my col- travel to Washington for our tenth an- maybe we were dumber than we are league just discussed, we are in a mas- nual dinner, where on Thursday night now, and maybe we have leaders today sive downsizing mode that I think is at the Washington Hilton we will pay that know something those people heading us right for a train wreck at tribute to these brave heroes. didn’t know. My point is that the the turn of the century in terms of our These individuals will come from events of the world are unpredictable security posture. every State in the Union, they will rep- and that we today are taking a high You are going to be hearing signifi- resent every major community, large level of risk by dramatically cutting cant amounts of comments and speech- cities like New York, small towns our defenses. es and activities over the next four across America, and they will come The American people need to know weeks as members of our committee, with one common purpose: that is, for that. They need to know that the mas- all 57 members, get involved in educat- us to be able to recognize their serv- sive savings, so-called savings that ing Members of this body, and the ices. President Clinton is showing the world American people about where we are in But something different will happen proudly and showing the American peo- terms of our state of readiness. I want that day, Mr. Speaker. On Thursday, at ple proudly, the millions of dollars that to call attention to my colleagues two noon, there will be a massive rally and he has pulled out of programs, have events that will take place next week. demonstration at this Capitol building, primarily been pulled out of national First of all, Mr. Speaker, the largest where the fire and EMS providers in security. loss of military life that we have had in every congressional district in this We have dramatically cut back our this decade was back 7 years ago when country will gather for a massive rally national security. And we do not know 28 young Americans were killed by a at noon, after having surrounded this what this world is going to bring us. I scud missile, a low complexity scud Capitol building with fire and emer- am reminded of the fact that when we missile shot from Iraq into a barracks gency services apparatus, to make a had our assembled intelligence appara- in Saudi Arabia. That missile dev- statement. tus and our intelligence leaders in astated the lives of 28 young Ameri- The statement is a simple one: As front of us, and we asked them a few cans. this Congress and this administration April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2305 has increased funding for response to At the end of the session, Jack Kemp from our ag folks, it is not to continue terrorism acts, to the potential use of was leading the session, but there were funding the programs to allow coun- weapons of mass destruction, and for other experts there on the IMF, and at tries to buy grain and some of our agri- the disasters that would result from the end of the session I started asking culture products, the $18 billion is to those, from increases in funding for the questions that I think most people in expand this program that we heard Defense budget, the Department of Jus- Wisconsin, if they had sat in on this from the leading experts is not work- tice budget, the Health and Human thing, would have logically started ing. Services budget, the FEMA budget, and asking. Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Speaker, will the Department of Energy budget, none The first one I asked is, how much the gentleman yield? of that money is in fact siphoning have we given the IMF already of the Mr. NEUMANN. I yield to the gen- down to those people who are where taxpayers’ money? Thirty-six billion tleman from Minnesota. the rubber meets the road, who are the dollars, is the answer. Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Speaker, I Nation’s first responders in each of What do they want now? What are thank the gentleman for yielding. I ap- these situations. they asking for? They are asking for preciate this special order tonight. The demonstration on Thursday, that $18 billion more of the taxpayers’ I was at that briefing, as well. I must will be loud and vocal, to which I invite money. tell the Members, it was eye-opening. all of our colleagues from both parties, The most incredible thing, and this is When we look at what they are asking will focus on the fact that this Con- what this is dedicated to tonight, the for, I was reminded that somebody gress and the administration need to incredible part of this is, as we heard once observed that the definition of in- understand that in working to prepare on the floor during this debate, do not sanity is doing more of what you have this Nation to deal with disasters, es- worry about it, the IMF does not cost always done and expecting a different pecially those involving weapons of any money. If the IMF does not cost result. mass destruction, we need to provide any money and we do not have to raise If we look at what has happened in the support to the 1.2 million men and any taxes to put this money over there, Asia, where they have gone in and women in the 32,000 departments, 85 then why are we talking about $18 bil- forced some of the Asian economies to percent of whom are volunteer, who lion that we are somehow going to give raise taxes, to devalue their currency, protect this country every day. them? Again, only in Washington could then they are surprised when, ulti- I am also asking our colleagues, Mr. we have this kind of discussion. mately, that has a devastating impact Speaker, to reach out and invite fire But I did not stop there. I started on the economy, and it just seems to and EMS personnel from across the asking some more Wisconsin common- me this is wrongheadedness elevated to country, and especially in this region, sense kinds of questions. The next one an absolute art form. to travel to Washington on Thursday I asked is, they had gone through this When we heard some of the examples to send a signal throughout this Cap- whole thing about how wherever the today of what has happened in Asia and itol, with a massive rally at noon right IMF was, America was viewed as an what happened in Indonesia, what has outside the steps of this Chamber, that enemy, not as a friend. So I said, now, happened in other parts, what hap- we will no longer tolerate the consider- wait a second, if the IMF is not work- pened in Hungary, for example, and ation of our fire and EMS personnel as ing today, why would we want to put then they are coming in and saying, by second-class citizens, that they deserve more money into the system? the way, what we need is another $18 the top priority in preparing this Na- I asked another what I consider com- billion from the American taxpayers, tion to deal with disasters, both man- monsense question: Does the IMF have and, incidentally, we want no debate made and the potential use of terrorist enough money in the system today to on this, we want you to do this as part devices. keep going and doing what it is doing? of a supplemental emergency bill so f And the amazing thing to me is they that there is no debate here in Con- THE INCREDIBLE THINGS answered that question, yes, they do. gress, no debate here on the floor of the HAPPENING IN THIS COMMUNITY So I asked what I considered another House, so people do not have any The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under commonsense question: How much chance to ask some serious questions, the Speaker’s announced policy of Jan- money do they have? They have $40 bil- it really illustrated what is wrong with uary 7, 1997, the gentleman from Wis- lion of liquid assets today, $40 billion things here in Washington. in the IMF of liquid assets today. But We have a lot of things here in Wash- consin (Mr. NEUMANN) is recognized for 60 minutes as the designee of the Ma- that is not the end. They have $35 bil- ington that are wrong, a lot of things jority Leader. lion in gold, beyond that. On top of that need to be questioned, and this Mr. NEUMANN. Mr. Speaker, I that, they have borrowing power of $25 certainly is one of them. We have our thought I would dedicate tonight’s spe- billion. friend here, the gentleman from Colo- cial order to the incredible things that So this agency that is asking us to go rado, and I would like to hear from him are happening here in this community. to the American taxpayers and get the as well. I could not get on a plane home be- $18 billion that is not going to cost our Mr. MCINNIS. Mr. Speaker, will the cause we got out of session too late to- government anything, even though we gentleman yield? night, so I am kind of like putting my- are going to put it in the IMF, the Mr. NEUMANN. I yield to the gen- self back in Wisconsin and looking at amazing thing is they already have all tleman from Colorado. Washington and just looking at how of this liquid cash on hand. Mr. MCINNIS. Mr. Speaker, I appre- some of the most incredible things in So I started asking what I thought ciate my colleague yielding to me. the world are going on right out here was a logical question. I said, they Mr. Speaker, we all grew up with the in this city today. have got $100 billion available already. same thing, and my father and mother I am going to start with one of the What are they going to do with the $18 told me many times when I saw a great issues that was talked about today and billion they are now asking us to col- bargain, my father would always say, actually we voted on today, and that is lect from the American taxpayers that as yours did, just remember, nothing is the IMF issue. is not going to cost the government free. Nothing is free. You always pay Out in Wisconsin, if you said IMF to any money? something. the average person out there, I am not It turns out that this program, on But under this IMF request for $18 sure they would even know what IMF which they spent 45 minutes describing billion, Secretary Rubin and members is or what it is for or any of the rest of why it was not working and what was of the administration say, it is not that. Frankly, I came out of the pri- wrong with it, the $18 billion is not to going to cost the taxpayer one dime. vate sector and had no political experi- fund the program as it exists today, We heard it today. We have made a new ence, so today I had an opportunity to the $18 billion is to look at this pro- discovery. The American people should sit in on an educational session on gram that they all say is not working be thrilled. They have discovered what the IMF is and how it actually and expand the program. money that is free. Why send the IMF goes about lending money and what it The $18 billion is not for the ag in- $18 billion, since it is free? We might as is all about. dustry and the concerns that I hear well send them several trillion dollars. H2306 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 Of course, it is not free. Where it When the IMF goes in and devalues ing. I would like to tell him that was comes from are the hard-working peo- the currency in a foreign country, what excellent, and we certainly are appre- ple of all of our constituencies who that means is it makes their goods ciative of the products that are pro- have never even imagined $18 billion. cheaper to ship to the United States duced in our districts back home. And where is it going? One of the and any American-made goods more Mr. GUTKNECHT. I always try to things that concerns me is that this expensive to ship to their country. bring it along to the meetings we have country was based on the checks and So how in the world did we have my on Thursday mornings. It has become balances of the private marketplace, of colleagues on the other side of the almost a tradition. People who have capitalism. When you mess up, you go aisle, supported en masse by the unions not enjoyed it recently, we do rec- broke. If you do not produce a product of this country, come out here and vote ommend that Spam. You just warm it that should satisfy the consumer, peo- to not just keep the IMF where it is, up in the microwave or fry it, and it is ple quit buying the product and you because it already has the money to do a wonderful product. have to revise the product. the things it is doing now, but vote to More importantly, it is a wonderful But do Members know what happens expand the IMF that is going into product for export. This is a product with this IMF money? They are going these countries and encouraging this that we can export anywhere in the to take this $18 billion, let it follow devaluation of their dollar system, so world. Asia loves to buy more Spam. money that they have already shipped that their goods become cheaper to But when you devalue currencies, when over there; and, by the way, they will ship into our country and our Amer- you raise taxes, as the IMF is rec- be back, especially if they think the $18 ican-made goods, produced by our ommending to many of these econo- billion is easy money and free money American workers, with American mies, it really is the wrong prescrip- out of the United States Congress. jobs, become more expensive in their tion. Besides, they are insulated. The IMF countries? b 2045 has never talked, the executives of the I started this thing kind of light- IMF, in my opinion, have never once hearted tonight, because this city is so It is a little like giving poison to talked to a taxpayer in my district, ridiculous, but when you get into these someone who is already weakened. This never once gone to somebody pumping things, it is infuriating that we would is like the old remedies that they had gas at the gas station, never once take the taxpayers’ money from our during the Dark Ages where if a pa- stopped by the ranch and talked to the country, give it to an organization that tient had a fever, they would do blood- ranch hand and said, hey, you are the is going to go to a foreign country, en- letting. And that is exactly what the guy paying me, let me tell you what courage that foreign country to de- IMF has been doing to so many econo- this is doing. value their dollar so they can ship mies. It is the wrong remedy and wrong Mr. GUTKNECHT. If the gentleman their goods to America cheaper, and prescription. will continue to yield, Mr. Speaker, not our American-made goods and our And what is the answer that we are only do they not talk to the taxpayers, American jobs, those goods get more asked to deliver? More taxpayers’ the people in Colorado, the people in expensive. money to do exactly the wrong thing. Wisconsin, the people in Minnesota, It is just incredible the way things Mr. MCINNIS. Mr. Speaker, I would they will not talk to us. They will not work in this city. just like to say that the summary of tell us what exactly they intend to do. Mr. GUTKNECHT. Mr. Speaker, if what the IMF is asking us to do is to They will not tell us what their poli- the gentleman will continue to yield, it subsidize the IMF so they can turn cies are. is even worse than that. They have around and subsidize mismanagement. Mr. MCINNIS. It is because it is free. gone to a lot of our farmers, and obvi- These economies, these large private They think they can just go to the ously we have lost market share in families that took private risks now Congress and the money is going to Asia. Whether you are shipping milk want the American taxpayer, who by flow in. Of course, as I was saying, that and cheese in Wisconsin, whether you far is the largest contributor to the money that goes over to these coun- are shipping pork and other commod- IMF fund, they want the American tax- tries, what we are doing there, there ities from Minnesota or whatever, beef payer to subsidize overseas their mis- are many private enterprises. and other products from Colorado, a lot management, their miscalculation and Now, in the past with the IMF, what of our farm groups have said, we have their risk. We do not even do it for a they have done in the history of the to do something to get these farm mar- farmer in our district that does not get IMF, they have bailed out governments kets back. We certainly agree with the prices he needs for his milk. We do of countries that got into trouble, that. not go in there and bail them out. We where the entire government was on But if we take Indonesia, for exam- do not reward mismanagement. But we the verge of collapse. This time, it is ple, and we take their currency, and we do with this. different. This time, the IMF is going devalue it by 10 or 15 or 20 or 50 per- I appreciate the opportunity to visit in to families, private families, who as- cent, 50 percent I think was the num- with both of my colleagues this sume the risk, and they are going to ber in Indonesia, how much can they evening and have a discussion about bail these families out of a misjudg- really buy from us? The fact of the this, because this is an issue which, as ment. They took a risk. matter is they cannot buy anything the gentleman from Wisconsin (Mr. What we are saying is that we are from us anymore, whether it is Spam, NEUMANN) said, it is an issue that is now making any kind of business ven- whether it is cheese, whether it is beef, complicated. It is hard to understand tures outside of the boundaries of our or whether it is any other product from what IMF stands for, but it is impor- country risk-free. All you have to do is the United States. We are really hurt- tant for us. go out, throw out a few hundred mil- ing ourselves. I appreciate my colleagues including lion dollars, if you lose it, come to Mr. NEUMANN. And that is the thing me in this conversation this evening to Washington, come to us, and get the that our agriculture industry needs to try to at least get the message out to money. understand. If this organization goes in our colleagues: Take a second look at Mr. NEUMANN. The amazing thing with this policy of devaluation and this deal. Money is not free. Somebody to me is when you understand what the they devalue the dollar in Indonesia by is paying for it. And in these cir- policy of the IMF is. They have gone 50 percent, that effectively makes our cumstances, all of our constituencies into these countries. They have en- farm products that much more expen- are paying for this $18 billion to be couraged these countries to devalue sive to ship in Indonesia, and it effec- shipped, wired out of here and wired their dollar. tively shuts the markets down. over to these mismanaged inter- Let us translate that so our folks un- Before I end this part of our con- national economies. derstand exactly what that means, be- versation here this evening, though, I Mr. GUTKNECHT. If the gentleman cause it is incredible. It is absolutely would like to come back to the gen- would yield, I think many of us in Con- incredible that the folks, my col- tleman from Minnesota and com- gress would be willing to do something leagues from the other side of the aisle, pliment him on bringing his Spam from to try and strengthen the economies in supported this effort today. his district to our meetings this morn- Asia. I think historically the American April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2307 people have been more than generous ance the budget here in Washington. What they did was dramatically re- with people around the world. We un- They realized it was a serious problem duce the ability of a business profes- derstand the importance of world facing America and they concluded the sional to write off that particular din- trade. We want to strengthen those only thing they could possibly do is ner or lunch with clients where they economies. raise taxes on the American people and were selling as part of business, and in But before we give $18 billion to this they did. real estate that is how we did our busi- fund, I think that we in Congress have And I heard my colleague, the gen- ness. It is just incredible to me that to- a right to some serious discussion and, tleman from Mississippi (Mr. TAYLOR) night the White House is celebrating more importantly, some real answers tonight, and so much of what he said I these tax increases. to some of these questions about what absolutely agreed with, but he said Mr. GUTKNECHT. Only in Washing- is their policy. What exactly are they that spending was going up at slower ton, only in Washington dominated by trying to impose upon these economies, rates before we got here and that is the liberals would we have a birthday and what in the end will it really mean just plain not right. party, in effect, a anniversary party of in terms of world trade? During the first two years of Demo- the fifth anniversary of the largest tax Will it mean stronger world trade? crat control when they had a Democrat increase in the history of the world. Stronger economies? Better markets House, a Democrat Senate and a Demo- Only in Washington. for American-grown products and pro- crat President, spending rose at 3.7 per- Mr. NEUMANN. Does the gentleman duced goods? Or will it in fact have the cent, almost twice the rate of Bush’s know what they are saying over there? adverse consequences that we have last year. The reason they needed tax They are saying that this tax increase seen in the past? increases in 1993 was to fund an in- somehow balanced the budget. I have I would yield to my colleague from creased rate of spending. There are no brought a couple of notes with me. Colorado. ifs, ands or buts about this. Mr. GUTKNECHT. One of my favorite Mr. MCINNIS. And another thing we I brought a couple of charts with me quotes is from John Adams, and John might ask is, when are they going to tonight. Maybe we should go through a Adams had something to do with writ- pay us back? I think that is a pretty few more of the tax increases of 1993 ing our Constitution. And John Adams logical question. Somebody borrows before we bounce to them. If anyone often said, ‘‘Facts are stubborn money from the bank, the bank says thought they did not have their taxes things.’’ And you have some charts not only when are they going to pay it increased in 1993, listening to the which help demonstrate the facts. back, but how are they going to pay it Washington rhetoric, I would under- Mr. NEUMANN. The gentleman is ab- back? stand that because they tried to play solutely right. Facts are stubborn The other thing is that in an econ- this off as a tax increase on the rich. things. Let us get some facts on the omy we have to let correction take When we start thinking about, who it table to understand that that tax in- place. There has to be that cycle of cor- is that they defined as rich, it becomes crease in 1993 was not the right answer rection. And what we are doing is real- a fascinating discussion as well. to get to a balanced budget. ly we are doing an injustice to this First, if someone was a senior citizen What I have is a chart and this top country. We are avoiding the correc- getting a Social Security check and line shows where the deficit was going tion, the necessary correction by bail- they earned $32,000 a year or more, in 1995, two years after this tax in- ing it out. That correction will not their Social Security tax rate went up. crease, if we passed the President’s take place and the next correction they They started paying taxes on a whole budget. I do not know how I could get hit with is going to be much, much bunch more Social Security. So the make it clearer. This shows where the harder. first group of people that this hit sol- deficit was going after the tax increase Again, we need to move on to some idly was moderate, low-income senior if we passed the President’s budget. other subjects, but I do appreciate my citizens that earned $32,000 a year or I mean, this is not like maybe this colleagues and I appreciate the time more. They paid more taxes. might have happened. Any person in that they have allowed me to join them If anyone thinks they are not rich be- America can pull this up on the Inter- this evening. cause they are not in that group, let net and find this budget and find it Mr. NEUMANN. Mr. Speaker, we ap- me get to the next group. If Americans scored and they would find deficits in preciate the gentleman from Colorado own an automobile and they fill their excess of $200 billion, even scored by being with us. car up with gas, they are considered the President’s people. Scored by CBO As we started tonight, we talked rich under this tax increase package of it was up over $350 billion. about the incredible things, and I think 1993. The gasoline taxes increased 4.3 Mr. GUTKNECHT. Those are not our my colleagues would all like to be cents a gallon in 1993. And as incredible numbers. Those are from the non- home in their home districts where it as this seems, when they raised the So- partisan Congressional Budget Office. seems that common sense has a tend- cial Security taxes they did not put the That even after the enormous tax in- ency to prevail more so than it does money in Social Security. They spent creases of 1993, had we passed the here. I would like to jump to another it on other programs. When they raised President’s budget, the red line rep- topic that I find absolutely incredible. the gasoline tax, they did not spend it resents how much the deficit was going Over at the White House, the reason building roads. They put the money up over the next five years. that there is a lot of people gone to- into their social welfare spending pro- Mr. NEUMANN. The reason for that night is that they are having a party. grams. is very clear. The reason they raised They are celebrating the five-year re- Mr. Speaker, it is incredible. Small taxes is so they could spend more union of the biggest tax increase in business owners, I used to be in the money in Washington. Remember, this American history. Think about this. real estate business and the home is a picture that starts in 1995, two Out in Wisconsin we would celebrate building business. I would meet with years after the tax increase. The defi- tax cuts. We would celebrate lowering clients sometimes and we would start cits were nowhere near under control. the tax burden on the American people. at 8:00 in the morning and we would go When we were elected and came in We would celebrate restoring Social right straight through to noon. Real- here together in 1995, when we were Security and balancing the budget. But tors understand that if they have been elected to the House of Representatives we most certainly would not be out with their clients for four hours, they we came with a different idea. We un- there celebrating a tax increase on the buy them lunch. That is part of busi- derstood that reaching into the pock- American people. ness. At lunch the sale is discussed. ets of hard-working Americans and It is just absolutely incredible to me When they buy the property, the real- bringing more money to Washington that they would celebrate a tax in- tor makes a commission and pays taxes was not the right answer. We under- crease. For anyone who has forgotten on the commission. That is how this stood that the way to get this done was 1993, I think we ought to remember ex- thing works. That lunch with those cli- by controlling wasteful Washington actly what happened in 1993. ents that the realtor has been with for spending. In 1993, these people looked at the four or five hours, that is part of their This yellow line on the chart shows fact that they had not been able to bal- business expense. where we were after 12 months of us H2308 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 being in office. It is significantly bet- erally since the 1994 elections, because disguise the total of the Vietnamese ter, but still not done. in 1994 the American people finally said war plus the total cost of the great so- The green line shows the plan that enough is enough. This team has had ciety. And by taking all of that money we had to reach a balanced budget. And their chance now for 30 years, they from Social Security that was supposed I am happy to report the blue line have controlled Washington, they have to go into a trust fund and transferring shows what actually happened. And in controlled Congress, they have run up that into the general fund, they made fact for the last 12 months running, by deficits. the deficit look much smaller. In the Washington’s definition, but for the And I might just point out that one end, it is real money either way. last 12 months running the United of the most scary statistics about our Mr. NEUMANN. I just want to bring States Government actually spent less deficits and ultimately the debt, and up another point here because that money than they had in their check- we talk a lot about deficit and some- party in the White House tonight cele- book. times people get confused. There is a brating these tax increases; the gaso- Our colleague, the gentleman from difference between the national debt line tax increase, the increase on sen- Mississippi (Mr. TAYLOR), earlier this and the deficit. Deficits are annual. iors, increase on small business owners, evening pointed out that that is not But we have run up a debt of over $5.5 it is so incredible that they would hold really a balanced budget. This is kind trillion on our kids and grandkids. a party to celebrate this. I wanted to of a sad thing here. Washington defines That is a scary statistic. But what is point out what happened after they a balanced budget is when the dollars scarier is how much we have to pay raised taxes in 1993, and what this in equals the dollars out. Part of those every year just to pay the interest on chart shows is exactly what happened dollars in are the Social Security that national debt. to interest rates as soon as they raised money. In the private sector where I I tell people in my district, because those taxes. come from, when I was running my Wisconsin and Minnesota are divided You see on the far side of this chart company I had a pension plan for em- by the Mississippi River, but every sin- is September of 1993; that is when they ployees. The money had to be put into gle dollar of personal income taxes col- passed the tax increase. What you see, the pension fund. lected west of the Mississippi River this climb right straight up, as soon as The Social Security money should be now goes to pay the interest on the na- they raised taxes, interest rates start- put away. But what the gentleman tional debt. If that is not a scary sta- ed climbing. And they climbed right from Mississippi misses in my opinion tistic, I do not know what is. straight through until November of is that by controlling this growth of The charts that we have there, and I 1994, when we elected a Republican Washington spending we have, in fact, want you to talk about it a bit, dem- Congress. And why did it change in No- reached a balanced budget, even by vember of 1994? It changed because the onstrates how much we have actually Washington’s definition, for the first people understood that we became slowed the rate of growth in spending time since 1969. committed to controlling Washington here in Washington since we came and The definition that they have been spending, and we were not going to go became part of that historic 104th Con- using, even with all of that Social Se- out and raise more taxes on the hard- gress. curity money in there, they have had working people of this country. not a single solitary 12-month period of Mr. NEUMANN. That is what is so in- So what happened when we got here time since 1969 where they did not credible about the party that they are is they slowly, gradually started to un- spend more money than they had in holding in the White House tonight to derstand that we were serious about their checkbook. So it is a monu- celebrate the tax increase. For good- getting Washington spending under mental accomplishment. The gentle- ness sakes, if we look at what has hap- control because here is what happened man’s point that we still have a long pened, the red shows how fast spending next. Those interest rates started tum- ways to go is absolutely true. was going up before we got here. The bling. The reason they started tum- So I want to start with this picture reason they raised taxes in 1993 was to bling is because when Washington to make it very, very clear that raising pay for this spending increase. spends less money, they borrow less taxes did not lead us to a balanced This is how fast spending is going up money out of the private sector. budget. Raising taxes, the President’s now with the new Congress since 1995. When there is less money coming out proposal in 1995 has a huge deficit star- Notice there is a 40 percent decrease in of the private sector to Washington, ing us in the face. It was only when we the growth of Washington spending. It that, of course, means there is more started controlling Washington spend- is this difference between here and here money available in the private sector. ing that we actually started getting to that has gotten spending under control With more money available in the pri- a balanced budget. and gotten us to a point where we have vate sector, and increased availability Mr. GUTKNECHT. If the gentleman actually spent less money in the last 12 of money, it does not take Einstein to would yield, I think it really illus- months than in our checkbook. figure out, with more money available, trates the difference between the two Every time I say that I acknowledge the interest rates went down. philosophies. One says, and the people the Social Security problem. It is the You can see they have been consist- who are celebrating down at the White old Washington definition. I sincerely ently below this point since we were House the largest tax increase in the hope that our class is successful in here, some ups and downs as you go history of the world, those people are moving this city forward to defining a forward, but they have always stayed saying the problem was that the Amer- balanced budget as something that we consistently below where they were at ican people were not paying enough would accept in Wisconsin or Min- the peak after they raised taxes. That taxes. What the American people be- nesota. is why it is just incredible. lieve, and we believe, is the problem Mr. GUTKNECHT. We ought to use Are they celebrating over at the was that there was too much Washing- the same kind of accounting that every White House that the American people ton spending. business uses and every family uses. that wanted to buy a house or car got I think we have proven and we can Unfortunately, we are still stuck with to pay more interest? What is it that demonstrate with some of your other the old accounting standards used by they are celebrating over there? Are charts that by eliminating 300 pro- Washington since 1964. they celebrating they got to pay more grams, by beginning to get control of taxes, or are they celebrating they got b 2100 those entitlements, including welfare, to pay more interest for their taxes including Medicare spending, by doing I might mention a lot of people, a lot and cars? that we have come closer now, in fact of Members who are watching this in I keep coming back to, I guess I by the old Washington accounting their offices, and others, they really should have been on a plane back to standards, for the first time since Neil need to understand that in 1964 in Wisconsin tonight where we get back Armstrong walked on the face of the many respects Washington changed the to some common sense out there. It is moon we will in fact have a balanced accounting standards. They went to incredible in this city that they are budget this year. what is called a unified budget, and holding a party to celebrate, for good- It seems to be an incredible coinci- many believe that the real reason that ness sakes, to celebrate higher taxes dence that all of this has happened lit- they did that is because they wanted to and higher interest rates. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2309 Mr. GUTKNECHT. I might just point under control so we can restore Social with kids, the single common factor in out about that chart, it is no secret Security, start paying down the Fed- higher crime, more likeliness to have that interest rates peaked on election eral debt, that $5.5 trillion debt that drug problems, teen pregnancy, teen day of 1994. They trended down dra- our colleague from Mississippi so elo- smoking, the single uniting factor in matically after the people on Wall quently talked about before, the people those issues. It was parental time with Street, and more importantly the peo- that believe that controlling Washing- the kids or parental connectedness. It ple on Main Street began to believe ton spending is the right way to restore is not just about charts and numbers; that the new Congress was serious Social Security, pay down the debt and it is about the families out there in about controlling spending. You see a get the tax rate under control, those America that get to keep an extra $150 couple of blips up there. folks should be voting on the Repub- a month in their pocket because of the I think those correspond almost ex- lican ticket. The people that believe fact that the spending got under con- actly with those periods when it looked higher taxes is the right answer to do trol and the rates came down. as if we were going to lose that fight in the same things, they ought to be vot- Add that to the tax cut rate, and let terms of balancing the budget and pay- ing Democrat. us hope some of these families will not ing down some of the debt in this coun- Mr. GUTKNECHT. There really is a have to take a second and third job. try. And when the American economy, philosophical divide. Let us hope that some of our families when Americans, as I say, from Wall Mr. NEUMANN. Reclaiming for just will have more time to spend with Street to Main Street started to think a minute, I do want to point out, inter- their kids, and by parents spending that perhaps we were not going to suc- est rates peaked out in November of more time with kids, education will get ceed, we saw interest rates begin to 1994 when we were first elected. As much better. We will see lower crime trend upward. Main Street America started to under- rates. We will see lower drug use, fewer But generally speaking, they know stand we were serious, they got all the teen pregnancies. better sometimes than the pundits and way down here. It was almost a full They looked at 12,000 students. This the pollsters and whatever that it has year later, if you remember, a full year is a given fact. If parents spend more been the Republican Congress since we later we were in that government shut- time with their kids, the probability came here in 1994 that has put a lid on down period. that the kids are going to have drug Federal spending and said the problem This peak occurs shortly after we problems, crime problems, teen preg- is not that Americans do not pay folded in the government shutdown be- nancy, smoking problems, the enough taxes. cause the American people thought we likeliness of the student or the young The problem is that Washington were going to go right back to the old teenager being involved with these spends it so rapidly. If I could just spending ways. As they figured out things decreases dramatically. close with this on this particular issue, that that was not true, you see the in- Mr. GUTKNECHT. Let us talk a lit- there was a farmer in my district who terest rates coming back down again. tle bit about what has happened in said it so well and so simply, better So the idea that we can control spend- America over the last 30 years with the than I can say it, and I quote him, and ing directly impacts these interest other team in control. I was fortunate; I am sorry, I do not have his name. But rates, and we should not just talk I was raised in the 1950’s. So were you. he once, I was out meeting with farm- about this in terms of the numbers and You are a little bit younger than I am. Mr. NEUMANN. Late 1950’s, early ers one day and he said, talking about these lines up here. Let me talk about 1960’s. Federal spending and the deficit and this in a little different way. Mr. GUTKNECHT. Nonetheless, let the debt, he said the problem is not If the interest rate falls by 2 points us talk about what it was like growing that we do not send enough money into on a family that has bought a home for up in the 1950s. In the early 1950s, the Washington. He said the problem is $100,000, that means that they keep in average American family sent to Wash- that you guys spend it faster than we their house $2,000 extra money or ington about 4 percent of their gross can send it in. And that, I think, is the roughly $160 a month that they get to income. And I was really fortunate be- best way to say it. decide how to spend for themselves. cause my mom and dad could raise me The problem was not that Americans This is not even taxes we are talking and two brothers, three boys in our were not paying enough taxes. They about. This is simply because the inter- family on one paycheck. can celebrate down in the White House est rates are lower because Washington Mom was always there when we came because I think it demonstrates to the has got its spending under control. home from school, when we were doing American people more clearly than If you take a family of five that went things around the house, mom was anything else that those folks believe out and bought a three-bedroom, two- there. Things have changed a lot in the that the problem has been that the bathroom ranch in our neck of the last 30 years. Back then they paid 4 American people were not paying woods, probably $110- $115,000 type percent of their gross income to the enough in taxes. We believe that the home, they have got $100,000 mortgage Federal Government. Today, the aver- American people were right in saying on it. This means that in that family age family sends 25 percent of their that the real problem was that Wash- those parents get to decide what to do gross income to the Federal Govern- ington spent it too fast. We have with an extra $150, $160 a month. Let ment. What a difference that makes. slowed that spending rate dramati- me translate that even further. Today, the average family spends cally. As a result, we have a balanced If this family is looking at this $150 a more on taxes than they do for food, budget. month and they do not have to spend it clothing and shelter combined. And Mr. NEUMANN. I sincerely hope that on the interest, and they also look at that is what is really driving a lot of the American people will pay attention the tax cuts that were passed because the things you are talking about be- to this particular situation and to the the spending is under control so they cause we have changed the nature of party that is going on over there at the have this extra money in their house, the family. We have decided somehow White House tonight, and I really mean these families may be able to make the in Washington that we could spend this sincerely. I think every American decision to not take a second and third money smarter than the American citizen who believes higher taxes is the job. And when they do not take the family, that by creating more and right way to solve the economic prob- second and third job that they would more government programs that some- lems facing our country, and there are have otherwise had to take to pay the how we could improve the moral and some out there, they should all vote for higher interest rates, to pay the higher the social fabric of this country. The the Democrat ticket in the fall of this taxes that they are over there celebrat- facts just do not bear that out. year. ing about, if they would have had to As a matter of fact, most Americans I think everybody who believes that take that second job, that means they now believe that the fabric, the moral we should control Washington spend- cannot spend the time with their kids. fabric of our country today is in worse ing, they should be voting for the Re- When they do not spend time with shape than it was back in the 1950s. publican ticket; that believe that taxes their kids, I have been talking about More government programs clearly are are already too high, taxes should this 12,000-student survey done here re- not the answer. Strengthening the cor- come down, we should get spending cently, when parents do not spend time nerstone that makes our society work, H2310 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 strengthening the American family ly says is that under the old policies of us to a real balanced budget. It is ex- really is the answer. the past with higher taxes and more citing to think about. Mr. NEUMANN. I might add on the spending, the market was growing at By the way, I hope people make prof- moral front, I think we need strong about 18 percent, had grown about 18 it. I sincerely hope that the people that leadership in our Nation. I think the percent. Since the American people have invested in this stock market leadership of our Nation needs to set said enough is enough, and let us elect make profit and make money. That is the example and needs to be an exam- a whole new team to run things, and what investing is all about in America. ple that people both around the world let us control spending instead of just It is not evil and rotten in America to as well as our own teenagers and our raising taxes. In fact, let us control make an investment and make a profit own kids can look to. I have one more spending and allow families to keep from it. chart that I would like to briefly talk more of what they earn and invest, the Now that tax rate on that profit, it about that just lends more to the in- market has grown by 136 percent. used to be $28 out of every $100 we credibleness of that party that is going So they are celebrating the failed earned or made on our investment on over at the White House tonight policies of 18 percent and we are talk- came to Washington. Now it is only $20 celebrating tax increase. ing about growth of 136 percent. And out of every $100. So it went down from This shows the level of the stock you are right, in the end it really is 28 percent down to 20 earned. market. This is between here, and the about quality of life and a lot more I found we need to mention the other far side of the chart is between the tax people can enjoy a higher quality of side of this. If they are earning less increase and when we were first elected life when you have a stronger market, than $40,000 a year, it is amazing how to office. This becomes pretty signifi- lower interest rates. You can have an many people are still in the stock mar- cant, again not because the, not just economy that is growing at 3 and 4 per- ket and bonds even in the low and mod- the Dow Jones has soared as much as it cent, which we believe it should grow erate income brackets. If they are has. It becomes significant because in at, than you can with an economy that earning less than $40,000 a year, the our society today when I am at town is only growing at 1.8 percent. capital gains tax rate dropped from 15 hall meetings and I ask how many peo- We have not even talked about the down to 10. So, again, it is not only ple own a stock or a bond or a mutual real impact in terms of welfare and this picture of the growing stock mar- fund, I mean virtually every hand in what we have done for poor people and ket, it is the impact on real lives of the room goes up. allowing people to get on the ladder real people by reducing the tax rate. So we are now talking about not just and climb that ladder of success and go The next topic that we talked about, numbers and the Dow Jones, we are from poverty and get that job and if it is all right if we move on. talking about Main Street America, we begin to grow and invest and grow with Mr. GUTKNECHT. I think we should. are talking about families in this economy. My colleague mentioned several times Jaynesville and Beloit and Racine. We about the old accounting standards and b 2115 are talking about regular American how we use Social Security to make families that own stocks and bonds. I think the most exciting thing that the deficit look smaller. I think we And what happens is since we were has happened since my colleague and I need to talk about it. Because the elected, we got spending under control, came to Washington is that we cut the truth of the matter is, and I think the the interest rates came down; no big welfare roles by 2.2 million American American people understand, we have surprise. People started buying more families. And a lot of people thought, made enormous progress, if we look at houses and cars. when we were talking about reforming where we were just 4 years ago in The economy got very strong because welfare, they said, this is an account- terms of the deficit going up. with low interests rates and available ing exercise, and it is just about saving As a matter of fact, we need to be re- capital there is more jobs available and money. Well, welfare reform is not so minded that when the Congressional naturally we expect the economy to be much about saving money as it was Budget Office scored the President’s strong. And that is exactly what is re- about saving people. It was about sav- budget back in 1995, shortly after we flected in this chart as the Dow Jones ing families. It was about saving chil- came here, they said by the year 2002 rose dramatically since we were elect- dren. It was about saving those kids we would be looking at deficits of $322 ed in 1994, late 1994. Again, I think from one more generation of depend- billion. And that is when we began to what is important, here we are talking ency and despair. roll up our sleeves. We have eliminated about the opportunity for people in our I think one of the greatest victories 300 programs. We have dramatically age group, people in their 50’s and peo- we have had since my colleague and I changed the way the entitlements ple in their 60’s to retire and have a came to Congress is this victory over worked. We reformed welfare and Medi- better life-style than what perhaps welfare. We have got a long ways to go, care and Medicaid. We made a lot of they would have otherwise had because but enormous progress has been made. changes. And, as a result, we cut the they have got their money invested in Mr. NEUMANN. Reclaiming my time, rate of growth in Federal spending by these stocks and bonds and mutual I would like to point out one other about 40 percent. So where we were 4 funds so when they sell them off, of thing that is very, very important years ago was headed towards disaster. course, they are going to get to keep when we look at this picture and rise Where we are today is that the econ- more money. Hopefully, that means a in the stock market and we see the omy is stronger, the deficit under the better life-style for them. number of people that now own stocks old accounting standards is gone. And I So this chart and this talk about and bonds and mutual funds in Amer- think my colleague and I have been budget numbers, that is all nice, but ica, I think we should also talk about working on some of the numbers. My what is really important is that when the fact that, because Washington is colleague does a better job, it seems to somebody reaches age 65, if they put under control, as they make this addi- me, than almost anybody in Washing- their money back in down here, the tional profit, as they make more profit, ton in terms of predicting where the stock market is up here now, when of course, they pay more taxes and economy is going and what it is going they take those bonds and cash them make the problem easier to solve, but to mean to our budget. and get the money, they can now live a now the tax is already at a lower rate My colleague is predicting, and better life-style, provide better health because, last year, for the first time in frankly I agree, that we are going to care for themselves and their family, 16 years, we actually lowered taxes. see a surplus by the end of this fiscal provide a better life-style in general What a direct contrast between what year of somewhere in the area of $50 than they otherwise would have been they are celebrating over there in the billion. That is good news. But what able to do. It is not just numbers and White House, the biggest tax increase gets even better as we look forward, we charts and graphs, it is about a better in American history, and what has hap- are going to see surpluses perhaps if we life-style and the opportunity for a bet- pened since then where we are now able continue to exercise the kind of fiscal ter life-style. to lower taxes while still achieving, al- discipline that we have for the last Mr. GUTKNECHT. Those numbers beit the Washington definition, the couple of years. If we continue that are a little small to read. What it real- first significant step towards getting kind of discipline, we can actually see April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2311 surpluses in the area of $250 to $300 bil- both inflation and real growth in the den on the American people. We can do lion. And what a great debate to have. economy, these large surpluses start to all three of those things if we just man- And now we can start talking about appear. age to stay under control with spend- how do we save Social Security? How In all fairness, if I were the American ing in this city. do we make some of those changes per- people and I were listening to this con- We talked about some incredible manent so we can begin to guarantee cept that we might actually have these things here and we talked about how our kids a better standard of living and large surpluses, I would use the line sometimes common sense in Washing- a better quality of life in the future? ‘‘show me the money’’ to believe it. ton and Wisconsin and Minnesota are I would be happy to yield back. Be- But I would point out, a year ago we very, very different. I would like to cause I say, nobody in Congress has were on this floor doing special orders, bring up one more topic, and then I done a better job than my colleague predicting surpluses in fiscal year 1998, would like to take the last few minutes has of creating a model and a computer and they were laughing at us. to kind of close with a vision where we model so that we really have a blue- We are now on the floor, and it is a are going on the future. print of where we can go in the future. given fact, that the United States Gov- The topic I would like to bring up is Mr. NEUMANN. I do think it is im- ernment will spend $50 billion less than the needle exchange. This is perhaps as portant. And when I listened to the it has in its checkbook this year. So incredible as any discussion I have ever gentleman from Mississippi (Mr. TAY- what they were laughing at a year ago seen in this city. What they are propos- LOR) earlier tonight, my colleague, who is reality today. ing that we do, and as a matter of fact, I have the greatest respect for, most Mr. GUTKNECHT. If the gentleman the law was actually passed that this everything he said, I really agree with would yield, I remember on the floor of happened, is that the United States except for the pessimistic side of it. We this House, in fact, he came and we did Government provide clean needles to do not have to be pessimistic in Amer- some town hall meetings, one in Wi- drug users. Just think of it. We are not ica. We do not have to say our best nona, Minnesota, and one in Mankato. talking about legal medication here. days are behind us. And I think a lot of people thought we We are talking about illegal drug users I will never forget at basketball were crazy then when we said there was being able to turn in their dirty nee- games. I coach a lot. As a matter of a very good chance that we would actu- dles and get brand new ones. fact, we just signed up for a couple ally balance the budget this year. This What is really incredible about this more tournaments that my son and was a year ago. And my colleague and is when they started to implement the some of his friends in school will be I were a very small fraternity then who program in various parts around the playing in, one in Kenosha, one up in believed not so much that we believed country, they traded in one dirty nee- Omro, Wisconsin, and perhaps one in at what was being done in Congress, I dle and got 39 new ones. Now, I do not Oconomowoc. And we get into these think the real thing was we believed in know what my colleague thinks about basketball games and sometimes we the American people. this. But in my mind it does not take are behind at halftime. And I like to The American people do not need a Einstein to figure out that if they compare this to what has happened in big incentive. They do not need large turned in one dirty needle and got 39 America over the last 20, 30, 40 years. incentives to do what they have done new ones, the United States Govern- We are behind right now. But when throughout the generations. And lit- ment just became an agent in promot- we get into halftime and we are down erally since the pilgrims landed at ing the use of drugs in the United by 12 points in a basketball game, I al- Plymouth Rock, the history of this States of America; and that is pa- ways tell our young players, in the country has been that people would thetic. first half of this game they beat us by work, they would invest, they would I am happy to say that at least tem- 12 points. Now we got the second half. save, they would produce and ulti- porarily they have stopped this needle Let us go out and make sure we beat mately produce more wealth for more exchange program. But the law is still them by 13 points so we actually win people. on the books, and that law needs to be the game. The marvelous thing about this free changed. It is incredible that we would We do not have to conclude because enterprise system we have in the in this city decide that the right way of the problems we have in America United States is that it has an enor- to solve drug problems is to somehow today that our best days are behind us. mous propensity to produce wealth not trade dirty needles in for clean needles. We can go out and play the second half just for the wealthy but for all Ameri- It is just incredible that we would of this game, the second half of our cans. make that sort of decision. lives, if you like, and we can make sure John Kennedy reminded us back in Mr. GUTKNECHT. I do not think the that by 20 or 30 years down the road, a the sixties that a rising tide lifts all people back in Wisconsin or Minnesota, generation from now, we can make boats, and that is what we are seeing in at least the common-sense people sit- sure we have done the right things to this economy. It is not perfect. There ting around the coffee shops and the restore this Nation. I do not think we are still people being left behind. And feed mills, I mean they would say this have to be pessimistic about the fu- we have to be aware of that and do is crazy, especially when we are sup- ture. what we can to pull our brothers along. posedly having a war on drugs. My colleague was talking about what But the American people are doing In fact, what makes it even more bi- is happening around us right now. We what they have always done before, zarre is we have some folks in Washing- do not have to do anything different and that is they have been investing ton who want to have this war on to- than the first 3 years we have been in and saving and producing. They have bacco. And, on the one hand, we are office. We just have to hold the con- been growing wealth and growing jobs going to do everything we can, and I straints on spending. If we hold the and growing the economy. And, as a re- certainly support the notion of doing constraints on spending that we have sult, we have more revenue than any- everything we can to try and keep kids had here, government spending is going body except perhaps my colleague from starting smoking, but, on the up at roughly the rate of inflation. So would have predicted just a year ago. other hand, we have some of the most let no one out there misconstrue this, Mr. NEUMANN. The good news is, if dangerous drugs which we know, for that somehow it is being twisted or we get to a point where this does keep example, if they are a heroin addict ul- dramatically cut back somehow. It is going, we keep spending under control timately it will kill them; and some- not. Government spending is still going and revenue just keeps growing like it how we have this bizarre notion that up at the rate of inflation, too fast in has been for the last 3 or 4 or 5 years we will make it safer by providing my opinion. and it just keeps doing what it has clean needles to heroin addicts. But for all the people around the been doing, these $250 billion surpluses This is sort of the tortured logic that country, it seems to be a rate they are not far off. That means we can both has run this city for too long, and I have learned to live with over the last put the money aside for Social Secu- think we have got to get back to some 3 years. If we can keep government rity and start paying down the Federal of those old-fashioned notions, things spending going up at the rate of infla- debt so our children might inherit a like personal responsibility and ulti- tion, because revenues go up because of debt-free Nation and lower the tax bur- mately calling things the way they are H2312 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 and saying we have got to do every- Let us go to the social side for just a nancy, in the seventh, eighth, or ninth thing to keep people from using heroin minute. On the social side, I think edu- month of a pregnancy that they would rather than making it easier for them cation is the number-one problem fac- partially deliver a baby, and then with to use heroin with cleaner needles. ing the United States of America. Our the baby going to live if they finish the Mr. NEUMANN. We have spent an kids have dropped to 21st in the world delivery, at the last second, they would hour here tonight talking about some in education. I think the right answer kill the baby in this abortion. A sev- of the incredible things going on in this to education is not Washington going enth, eighth or ninth month killing of city from IMF funding to the strange out and spending more money on edu- a baby that would otherwise live is way that we found support in this Con- cation. The right answer on education what a partial birth abortion is, and gress for IMF funding today. We found is empowering our parents to be ac- that is just plain wrong. that people that voted against it were tively involved in deciding where our Wherever you are at on the abortion people that we might have thought kids go to school, what they are issue, I know from the State of Wiscon- might vote for it, especially people taught, and how they are taught it. sin, in the House of Representatives, that represent union districts support- If we can just empower our parents the people that are pro-choice that are ing an agency that is encouraging de- to be actively involved in the kids’ Democrats, the people that are pro- valuation of the dollar. Which means education, all kinds of things will choice that are Republicans, the people foreign goods come in cheaper and our change. It is the right way to bring that are pro-life Democrats and pro-life American made goods cost more, which education back up. More Washington Republicans, all of them voted to end means we lose American jobs. control, more Washington dollars. Tak- partial-birth abortions in America. We talked about the party going on ing that responsibility away from the When I think about a social agenda, at the White House where they are parents is the wrong answer. The right I do not believe that our free society celebrating tax increases, where what answer is parental involvement in the now understanding what is happening we ought to be doing is celebrating the education system. in a partial-birth abortion can allow tax cuts from last year. And we talked Now I am going to refer back to that this to continue. It is one thing to not about the needle exchange. understand it; it is another thing to I would like to kind of conclude this study I talked about before of 12,000 know about it and not do something evening by not talking about some- teenagers. When parents are more ac- about. thing incredible, but rather talking tively involved in their kids’ school, there is a side benefit. When parents I would like to close tonight with a about where we might go in the future thought that I think about regularly. I with this great Nation that we live in; are more actively involved in what think about this country and where we and I would like to kind of present a vi- their kids are learning, there is a side are at and where we have come over sion here for where we might go with benefit. And the study of 12,000 teen- the last 40 years. I think about the America both from an economic front agers pointed it out directly. problems in the White House and the and from a social front. Let me start b 2130 message that that is sending to our on the economic side because we have There is an immediate impact. The kids, and I think about all of these so- talked about it already a little bit to- more parents that are involved with cial problems facing America and the night. their kids, the less likely it is that the On the economic side, I think the education problems, and I think about kids will be involved with crime, the first thing we need to do is make sure the financial problems. These words less likely it is the kids will be in- that Social Security is safe and secure just keep ringing in my ears. I keep volved with drugs, the less likely it is for every senior citizen in the United hearing these words that, in order for that the kids will have teen preg- States of America. I believe our seniors evil to succeed, good people need only nancies, and the less likely it is the have the right to get up in the morning sit idly by and watch. teens will be smoking. and not worry about whether their So- I wonder, when generations look So when we talk about those social cial Security check is going to be back on our generation, and they ask problems facing America, the single there. So the first thing economically, what kind of people were these? Were most important thing that we can do is let us make sure Social Security is safe these the people that sat quietly by, empower our parents to get more ac- for our senior citizens. were these the good people that sat tively involved with our kids. Second, we have got a $51⁄2 trillion quietly by while evil succeeded during debt staring us in the face. Let us start Both sides of this issue, both sides of their generation? making payments on that debt, much this chart are intertwined in that, if we Folks, we over the next 10, 15, 20 like we would pay off a home mort- can reduce the tax burden from $37 out years, will we be the people that said gage, and let us pay off the debt so our of every $100 the people earn down to enough is enough? We are not going to children can inherent a debt-free na- $25 out of every $100 the people earn, spend our children’s money anymore. we will be in a position where parents tion instead of having a legacy of a $51⁄2 We are not going to take that money trillion debt. are no longer forced to take a second out of the Social Security Trust Fund. The third thing, the tax rate is too and a third job. The taxes are too high, and we are high. The tax rate in America, if we When they do not take the second going to get it down. We are going to look at State, local, Federal, property and third job, they will have more time pay off this debt so our kids get a debt- taxes, if we look at all taxes people to spend with their kids. More time in- free nation. pay, $37 out of every $100 they earn in volved with their kids’ education will We have had it with our kids being America today goes to taxes of some automatically improve the education 21st in education in the world. They form. So on this economic side, let us of their kids. And as they spend more are going to be number one again. get a vision. Restore Social Security so time, the side benefits of less crime, When they are number one with our our seniors are safe, pay off the debt so less drugs, fewer teen pregnancies, and parents more actively involved in their our children can inherent a debt-free less teen smoking is an automatic out- lives, the crime rate goes down, the nation, and let us get that tax burden come based on the survey that we just drug use goes down, teen pregnancies down to not more than $25 out of every looked at. Again, the survey of 12,000 are fewer, less teen smoking. We end $100 the people earn, instead of the $37 teenagers, the survey is accurate. partial-birth abortions. that it currently is. The last thing I would mention on Are we going to be the people that A lot of people would say that is pie- the social side is something I did not history looks back on and say that was in-the-sky vision. I tell my colleagues, really understand when I first came to the people in our society, that was the 3 years ago if we said we were going to Congress 4 years ago. I did not under- people in America that said enough is balance the budget by 1998, they would stand what a partial-birth abortion enough. The good people would no say that was pie-in-the-sky. I believe in was. I am pro-life, so I understood the longer stand idly by and watch evil America and I believe what our people abortion issue reasonably well, but I succeed. They are the people that stood can do in this great country that we did not understand partial birth. up and took this country back and pro- live in. It is possible to achieve these When someone first explained to me vided our children with a safe, secure economic goals. that, in the third trimester of a preg- moral future. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2313 REMOVAL OF NAME OF MEMBER While all the facts about the F–16 The combination of the oil resources AS COSPONSOR OF H.R. 3156 deal are still somewhat in dispute, in Azerbaijan and Turkey’s position as Mr. COOKSEY. Mr. Speaker, I ask these recent reports are the latest indi- a NATO member have led to excessive unanimous consent that my name be cation of a growing military and politi- tolerance, in my opinion, on the part of removed as a cosponsor of H.R. 3156. cal alliance between Turkey and Azer- our State Department for these two re- The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. baijan, a very troubling development in gimes and their growing military part- GUTKNECHT). Is there objection to the terms of peace, stability, and democ- nership. request of the gentleman from Louisi- racy in this strategically important I just hope, Mr. Speaker, and this is ana? Caucasus region. the last thing I would like to say to- There was no objection. Both Turkey and Azerbaijan con- night on this subject, is I just hope f tinue to maintain blockades of their that the proposed Turkish-Azerbaijani neighbor, Armenia. These blockades, F–16 sale will be where we finally draw REPUBLIC OF TURKEY SEEKING which are both illegal and immoral, the line in our support for this un- U.S. APPROVAL have made it extremely difficult for democratic regime and the dangerous The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under much-needed emergency food, medi- situation that the F–16s might pose if the Speaker’s announced policy of Jan- cine, and energy supplies to reach the this sale were ever allowed. uary 7, 1997, the gentleman from New people in Armenia, including supplies Now, Mr. Speaker, if I could, I would Jersey (Mr. PALLONE) is recognized for sent by the American people. like to switch now and talk again brief- 60 minutes as the designee of the mi- In addition, Azerbaijan continues to ly about the situation in India. I would nority leader. refuse to compromise on negotiations like to make a very positive state- Mr. PALLONE. Mr. Speaker, I do not to achieve a settlement over the ment, if I could, about the recent visit plan to use very much of the hour this Nagorno Karabagh conflict. Nagorno to India by some of our U.S. officials evening, probably about 15 or 20 min- Karabagh is a region that has been pri- representing the President. I speak utes. marily populated by Armenians for today specifically about U.S. Ambas- My topic relates to foreign affairs centuries, which has proclaimed its sador to the United Nations, Mr. Bill and U.S. relations with two countries independence about 10 years ago, but Richardson, a former colleague of ours that I feel very close to. One is Arme- which continues to be claimed by Azer- in the House of Representatives; As- nia. I happen to cochair the Armenia baijan. As a matter of fact, Azerbaijan sistant Secretary of State for South Caucus in the House of Representa- also continues to maintain a blockade Asia, Mr. Karl Inderfurth; and Director tives. And also India, another country of Nagorno Karabagh, causing signifi- for South Asia in the National Secu- where I cochair our Members’ caucus cant human hardship there as well. rity Council, Mr. Bruce Reidel, who re- that we have with approximately 100 Mr. Speaker, when I was in the re- cently made a very successful trip to Members, in the case of the India Cau- gion earlier this year in the Caucasus, India. cus, and I think 65 or so in the Armenia in the frontline area of Karabagh, Indian and American officials associ- Caucus. which was the target of constant sniper ated with the trip have stated that the I would like to turn first to the situa- fire from Azerbaijani forces, I became meetings were conducted with excep- tion in Armenia. I should say really aware of a very disturbing fact, which tional warmth, which can only indicate threats, if you will, to the Republic of I would like to point out this evening. that U.S.-India relations have never Armenia, and also the Republic of The equipment that was being used been stronger. Nagorno Karabagh that are coming, by the Azerbaijani forces, from the I wanted to say, Mr. Speaker, that once again, from its neighbors. weapons right down to the uniforms, Ambassador Richardson and Secretary I would like to specifically address a were American and NATO supplies, Inderfurth have traveled to South Asia very troubling situation involving the provided to Turkey and then funneled in preparation for President Clinton’s possible transfer of sophisticated U.S. to Azerbaijan. trip to the subcontinent, which was arms to Azerbaijan, an unstable and Of course, Turkey, as we know, is a scheduled for this fall. As you know, undemocratic regime. There have re- NATO ally, despite the fact that, un- President Clinton’s trip to South Asia cently been press reports suggesting like the other NATO countries of North will be the first by an American Presi- that the Republic of Turkey, another America and Western Europe, Turkey dent that has taken place in over 20 neighbor of Armenia, is seeking U.S. is a country with numerous restric- years. approval to sell F–16 fighter planes, as- tions on democratic and civil liberties These meetings were not intended to sembled in Turkey, but based on a U.S. and a terrible human rights record. produce high-level agreements, but license, to the Republic of Azerbaijan. But while Turkey is a NATO mem- they gave senior administration offi- According to the press reports, the ber, Azerbaijan is not, and it should cials the opportunity to meet with sen- idea of arms sale emerged during talks not be receiving American military ior officials from the newly elected In- between government officials from the equipment, particularly not anything dian government. The government in two countries regarding a Turkey- as sophisticated and dangerous as F–16 India changed hands. It was an election Azerbaijan defense agreement. aircraft. Turkey should not be supply- in March, and a new government took Mr. Speaker, for the transfer of the ing such equipment to other nations. office in early April. Numerous issues F–16’s to take place, Turkey would Mr. Speaker, Azerbaijan is not ex- were discussed with our U.S. officials have to seek permission from the actly one of the democratic success and the new government, and I am United States and also of NATO. I have stories of the former Soviet Union. In pleased to see that the talks were very come to the House floor tonight to ask fact, the leader of Azerbaijan, Heydar positive. my colleagues to join me in urging our Aliyev, is a former Communist Party I wanted to talk about some of the administration to reject any such pro- boss who seized power in a coup and issues that were discussed, because I posal and discourage Turkey’s growing has led an authoritarian regime ever think they are important. The U.S. del- role as an arms supplier to such vola- since. He has not permitted opposition egation spent much of its time encour- tile regions as the Transcaucasus and political organizations or a free media. aging the reassumption of dialogue be- the Middle East. More shocking, while oil wealth be- tween India and Pakistan. This was In the next few days, I will be seek- gins to pour into the Azeri capital of something that the previous Prime ing signatures for letters to our Presi- Baku, President Aliyev has done noth- Minister Gujral had encouraged quite a dent and other key national security ing to relieve the suffering of his own bit. officials in opposition to the Turkish people in the countryside of Azer- Talks between these South Asian sale of F–16’s to Azerbaijan. Indeed, Mr. baijan. Yet, it is precisely the huge oil neighbors had abruptly ended in Sep- Speaker, it is inconceivable to me, and wealth and Azeri territory in the Cas- tember just prior to the new election I think to most of the American people pian Sea that has led Western Govern- cycle when both countries failed to re- that our military, diplomatic, and in- ments, including, I am sorry to say, solve their differences over Kashmir. telligence agencies would even con- our own government, to tolerate and Fortunately, soon after Ambassador template such a proposal. promote this antidemocratic regime. Richardson and Secretary Inderfurth H2314 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 had left South Asia, reports indicated and cleaner nuclear environment. So cus is to promote more trade and in- that talks between the two countries again, this is a very positive develop- vestment by U.S. businesses in India. It may resume after a summit meeting of ment. is very important to see that the move the Indian and Pakistani Prime Min- b 2145 towards a market economy, towards isters during the SAARC meeting in privatization, continues under the aus- July. So we are very hopeful that we During the meetings that took place pices of this new government. are going to see the reassumption of with Ambassador Richardson and Sec- There was a lot of attention paid dur- these talks, and I was very pleased to retary Inderfurth the United States ing this recent trip to the so-called see that our representatives encour- also acknowledged India’s bid for per- strategic dialogue that has been initi- aged the reassumption of the dialogue manent membership on the United Na- ated by U.S. officials, and I would like between India and Pakistan. tions Security Council. to see the strategic dialogue extended Mr. Speaker, both the United States Now basically what the U.S. position into the defense area. and India also, I would note, were very is, and they basically stated it again at During the trip Defense Minister willing to discuss sensitive and con- this meeting, is that the U.S. endorses George Fernandez and the U.S. delega- troversial issues. For example, Ambas- Security Council reform and the U.S. tion agreed that more cooperation was sador Richardson stated that the supports the inclusion of Germany and needed in technology and military-to- United States will continue to work Japan and one country each from Latin military exchange, and I think that with the Indians in curbing the devel- America, Asia and Africa. The United India, Mr. Speaker, can be a bulwark opment of the nuclear weapons pro- States, however, would allow the re- against the expansion of China’s mili- gram, but that the nuclear issue would gions to determine who their rep- tary in Asia. India should be more inte- not dominate the dialogue between the resentatives would be. grated in my opinion into the U.S. de- two countries. So United States is saying that there fense framework, and it should be able The U.S. Delegation informed Indian should be another Asian representa- to buy military equipment and supplies officials that the United States was tive, but it does not necessarily have to from the United States on an equal pleased that the Indians had shown re- be India. basis with other allies. The strategic straint after Pakistan had test-fired I have to say, though, that in private dialogue being fostered by the U.S. offi- the Ghauri missile. I would like to in- discussions with administration offi- cials’ recent trip I think will hopefully form Members of this body that the De- cials there is no question in my mind lead in this direction. fense Department is ready to consider that they support India’s bid, and I And finally, Mr. Speaker, my overall sanctions against Pakistan following hope that the United States public pol- goals and the goals of the India Caucus the firing of the missile. icy will ultimately be supportive of include bringing India and the United A spokesman from the Pentagon re- India being a permanent member of the States closer together, making India cently stated, and I quote, that the Security Council. more of a foreign policy priority for United States has imposed sanctions There was also discussion between the United States and, again, increas- against Pakistan in the past under the the U.S. and Indian officials during ing U.S. trade with and investment in Missile Technology Control Regime. this recent trip on the need to fight India. And I believe very strongly that We are continuing to review the par- terrorism. Ambassador Richardson had this recent trip by U.S. officials to ticular case and that review was in its called on India’s prime minister and India has clearly helped to achieve advanced stages. home minister and had shared their these goals and is going a long ways to- I would like the administration to concern over Pakistan-sponsored ter- wards improving our relationship on look very closely at this issue. I am rorism in Jammu and Kashmir and in almost every level with India. concerned that China or North Korea other parts of India. f might have provided Pakistan with the Obviously, again, the United States technical information for the Ghauri needs to do more to fight terrorism, to LEAVE OF ABSENCE missile. The continued illegal transfer basically put pressure on Pakistan to By unanimous consent, leave of ab- of missile and nuclear technology may not encourage and to harbor and train sence was granted to: lead to further instability in South terrorists on its soil, and hopefully the Mr. MILLER of Florida (at the request Asia. That is why I continue to oppose comments that were made by Ambas- of Mr. ARMEY) for today after 1:00 p.m. the administration’s certification that sador Richardson and Mr. Inderfurth on account of attending his daughter’s will allow the United States to transfer will mean that the U.S. takes a more wedding. nuclear technology to China. proactive view and tries to basically Mrs. MEEK of Florida (at the request Mr. Speaker, China is known to have pressure, if you will, Pakistan into not of Mr. GEPHARDT) for today after 2:00 transferred nuclear technology to encouraging terrorism in Kashmir and p.m. on account of personal reasons. Pakistan, so we should not be transfer- in other places in south Asia. Mr. YATES (at the request of Mr. GEP- ring any kind of technology to China Both countries also discussed, very HARDT) for today after 6:00 p.m. on ac- that ultimately could be transferred to importantly I would say, the need to count of physical reasons. Pakistan. increase trade and investment. Finance f I would also like to note that, on the Minister Sinha was just in the United SPECIAL ORDERS GRANTED heels of Ambassador Richardson and States last week, this is the new fi- By unanimous consent, permission to Secretary Inderfurth’s trip, reports nance minister in India, in the Indian address the House, following the legis- from India indicate that the United government, and he assured U.S. busi- lative program and any special orders States and India are set to reinitiate ness leaders that the new BJP govern- heretofore entered, was granted to: ment was not anti-foreign investment civilian nuclear cooperation after 20 (The following Members (at the re- years. This partnership will focus on and that economic reforms would be quest of Mr. CAPPS) to revise and ex- accelerated with the new government. bilateral research projects and aimed tend their remarks and include extra- He recently stated that there was no at the improvement of the operational neous material:) doubt about the continuity of the re- safety of India’s nuclear power plants. Ms. NORTON, for 5 minutes, today. The first meeting between the two form process, and the finance minister Ms. CARLSON, for 5 minutes, today. countries is scheduled to take place in said that the Indian government would Ms. MILLENDER-MCDONALD, for 5 min- the U.S. later this year. U.S. law will seek foreign investment, particularly utes, today. govern the exchange of civilian nuclear infrastructure like roads, railways, (The following Members (at the re- officials. The proposed safety coopera- power, rural and high technology sec- quest of Mr. MCINNIS) to revise and ex- tion between our countries would not tors, and he assured investors that the tend their remarks and include extra- involve the transfer of technology or new government would continue the neous material:) controlled information or commodities deregulation process to help build a Mr. LATHAM, for 5 minutes, today. from the U.S. to India. But increased strong private sector. Mr. BRADY, for 5 minutes, today. dialogue on nuclear issues between our Now once again this is very impor- Mr. HUTCHINSON, for 5 minutes, two countries can only lead to a safer tant. One of the goals of our India Cau- today. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2315

Mr. METCALF, for 5 minutes, today. suant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Commit- Activities Division, Office of the Comptroller Mr. MCINNIS, for 5 minutes, today. tee on Banking and Financial Services. of the Currency, transmitting the Office’s 8595. A letter from the General Counsel, Mr. DELAY, for 5 minutes, today. final rule—Expanded Examination Cycle for Federal Emergency Management Agency, Certain Small Insured Institutions [Docket f transmitting the Agency’s final rule—Sus- No. 98–03] (RIN: 1557–AB56) received April 1, EXTENSION OF REMARKS pension of Community Eligibility [Docket 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the No. FEMA–7684] received April 6, 1998, pursu- Committee on Banking and Financial Serv- By unanimous consent, permission to ant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee ices. revise and extend remarks was granted on Banking and Financial Services. 8608. A letter from the Chairperson, Na- to: 8596. A letter from the General Counsel, tional Council on Disability, transmitting (The following Members (at the re- Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Council’s Annual Report for Fiscal Year transmitting the Agency’s final rule—List of 1997, pursuant to 29 U.S.C. 781(a)(8); to the quest of Mrs. CAPPS) and to include ex- Communities Eligible for the Sale of Flood Committee on Education and the Workforce. traneous matter:) Insurance [Docket No. FEMA–7685] received 8609. A letter from the Acting Adminis- Mr. HILLIARD. April 6, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); trator for Health Resources and Services Ad- Mrs. KENNELLY of Connecticut. to the Committee on Banking and Financial ministration, Department of Health and Mr. HAMILTON. Services. Human Services, transmitting the Depart- 8597. A letter from the General Counsel, Mr. LAMPSON. ment’s final rule—Grants for the Construc- Federal Emergency Management Agency, tion of Teaching Facilities for Health Profes- Ms. DELAURO. transmitting the Agency’s final rule— sions Personnel (RIN: 0906–AA39) received Ms. ESHOO. Changes in Flood Elevation Determinations April 7, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); Mrs. MEEK of Florida. [44 CFR Part 65] received April 6, 1998, pursu- to the Committee on Commerce. Mr. MENENDEZ. ant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee 8610. A letter from the Deputy Director, Mr. NEAL. on Banking and Financial Services. OSG, Department of Health and Human Mr. TOWNS. 8598. A letter from the General Counsel, Services, transmitting the Department’s Federal Emergency Management Agency, Mr. KENNEDY of Massachusetts. final rule—Medicare, Medicaid, and CLIA transmitting the Agency’s final rule— Programs; Clinical Laboratory Require- Mr. KUCINICH. Changes in Flood Elevation Determinations ments-Extension of Certain Effective Dates Mr. KLECZKA. [44 CFR Part 65] received April 6, 1998, pursu- for Clinical Laboratory Requirements Under Mr. BARCIA. ant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee CLIA [HSQ–237–FC] (RIN: 0938–AH84) re- Ms. VELAZQUEZ. on Banking and Financial Services. ceived April 7, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. Mr. SHERMAN. 8599. A letter from the General Counsel, 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Commerce. Federal Emergency Management Agency, Mr. SKELTON. 8611. A letter from the Director, Office of transmitting the Agency’s final rule— Regulatory Management and Information, Mr. POSHARD. Changes in Flood Elevation Determinations Environmental Protection Agency, transmit- Mr. KIND. [Docket No. FEMA–7249] received April 6, ting the Agency’s final rule—Approval and (The following Members (at the re- 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Promulgation of Implementation Plans; quest of Mr. MCINNIS) and to include Committee on Banking and Financial Serv- State of Missouri [MO 046–1046; FRL–6001–2] extraneous matter:) ices. received April 21, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN. 8600. A letter from the General Counsel, 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Commerce. Federal Emergency Management Agency, Mr. MCINTOSH. 8612. A letter from the Secretary of Health transmitting the Agency’s final rule— and Human Services, transmitting a draft of Mr. WALSH. Changes in Flood Elevation Determinations proposed legislation to amend title XIX of Mr. GREENWOOD. [Docket No. FEMA–7236] received April 6, the Social Security Act to clarify and revise Mr. GALLEGLY. 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the requirements regarding penalties for certain Mr. SOLOMON. Committee on Banking and Financial Serv- taxes on and donations by health care pro- Mr. GRAHAM. ices. viders; to the Committee on Commerce. Mr. RADANOVICH. 8601. A letter from the General Counsel, 8613. A letter from the Assistant Secretary Federal Emergency Management Agency, for Legislative Affairs, Department of State, Mr. BUNNING in two instances. transmitting the Agency’s final rule—Final transmitting a report on the progress made Mr. SMITH of Michigan. Flood Elevation Determinations (44 CFR toward opening the United States Embassy Mr. COLLINS. Part 67) received April 6, 1998, pursuant to 5 in Jerusalem, pursuant to Public Law 104–45, Mr. DAVIS of Virginia. U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on section 6 (109 Stat. 400); to the Committee on Mr. COBLE. Banking and Financial Services. International Relations. f 8602. A letter from the General Counsel, 8614. A letter from the President, Inter- Federal Emergency Management Agency, American Foundation, transmitting the ADJOURNMENT transmitting the Agency’s final rule—Final Foundation’s Fiscal Year 1997 Audited Fi- Mr. PALLONE. Mr. Speaker, I move Flood Elevation Determinations (44 CFR nancial Statements, pursuant to 22 U.S.C. Part 67) received April 6, 1998, pursuant to 5 283j–1(c); to the Committee on Government that the House do now adjourn. U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Reform and Oversight. The motion was agreed to; accord- Banking and Financial Services. 8615. A letter from the Director, Adminis- ingly (at 9 o’clock and 50 minutes 8603. A letter from the General Counsel, tration and Management, Department of De- p.m.), under its previous order, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, fense, transmitting the Department’s final House adjourned until Monday, April transmitting the Agency’s final rule—Final rule—Defense Logistics Agency Privacy Pro- 27, 1998, at 2 p.m. Flood Elevation Determinations (44 CFR gram [Defense Logistics Agency Reg. 5400.21] Part 67) received April 6, 1998, pursuant to 5 received April 15, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. f U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Govern- EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, Banking and Financial Services. ment Reform and Oversight. 8604. A letter from the General Counsel, 8616. A letter from the Assistant Attorney ETC. Federal Emergency Management Agency, General for Administration, Department of Under clause 2 of rule XXIV, execu- transmitting the Agency’s final rule— Justice, transmitting the Department’s final tive communications were taken from Changes in Flood Elevation Determinations rule—Justice Acquisition Regulations [48 the Speaker’s table and referred as fol- (44 CFR Part 65) received April 6, 1998, pursu- CFR Chapter 28] received April 7, 1998, pursu- lows: ant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee ant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Banking and Financial Services. on Government Reform and Oversight. 8593. A letter from the Deputy Chief, Pro- 8605. A letter from the Chairman, Federal 8617. A letter from the Chairman, Nuclear grams and Legislation Division, Department Financial Institutions Examination Council, Regulatory Commission, transmitting a re- of the Air Force, transmitting notification transmitting the Council’s 1997 Annual Re- port on the Commission’s Fiscal Year 1997 that the Commander of Hill Air Force Base port to Congress, pursuant to 12 U.S.C. 3305; Accountability Report, pursuant to 31 U.S.C. (AFB), Utah, has conducted a cost compari- to the Committee on Banking and Financial 3512(c)(3) Public Law 103–56; to the Commit- son to reduce the cost of operating grounds Services. tee on Government Reform and Oversight. maintenance, pursuant to 10 U.S.C. 2304 nt.; 8606. A letter from the Chairman, National 8618. A letter from the Attorney General, to the Committee on National Security. Credit Union Administration, transmitting Department of Justice, transmitting a copy 8594. A letter from the Director, Office of the 1997 Annual Report of the National Cred- of the Annual Report of the Attorney Gen- Legislative Affairs, Federal Deposit Insur- it Union Administration, pursuant to 12 eral for Fiscal Year 1997, pursuant to 28 ance Corporation, transmitting the Corpora- U.S.C. 1752a(d); to the Committee on Bank- U.S.C. 522; to the Committee on the Judici- tion’s final rule—International Banking Reg- ing and Financial Services. ary. ulations; Consolidation and Simplification 8607. A letter from the Administrator of 8619. A letter from the President, The (RIN: 3064–AC05) received April 14, 1998, pur- National Banks, Legislative and Regulatory Foundation of the Federal Bar Association, H2316 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 transmitting a copy of the Association’s the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- audit report for the fiscal year ending Sep- Directives; Pilatus Aircraft Ltd. Model PC–7 tation and Infrastructure. tember 30, 1997, pursuant to 36 U.S.C. 1101(22) Airplanes [Docket No. 97–CE–149–AD; Amend- 8640. A letter from the General Counsel, and 1103; to the Committee on the Judiciary. ment 39–10456; AD 98–08–07] (RIN: 2120–AA64) Department of Transportation, transmitting 8620. A letter from the Administrator, Fed- received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness eral Aviation Administration, transmitting 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- Directives; Dornier Model 328–100 Series Air- the Pilot Minimum Flight Time Require- tation and Infrastructure. planes [Docket No. 96–NM–119–AD; Amend- ments Study, pursuant to 49 U.S.C. 44935 nt; 8631. A letter from the General Counsel, ment 39–10432; AD 98–07–12] (RIN: 2120–AA64) to the Committee on Transportation and In- Department of Transportation, transmitting received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. frastructure. the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- 8621. A letter from the General Counsel, Directives; Stemme GmbH & Co. KG Models tation and Infrastructure. Department of Transportation, transmitting S10 and S10–V Sailplanes [Docket No. 97–CE– 8641. A letter from the General Counsel, the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness 127–AD; Amendment 39–10452; AD 98–08–03] Department of Transportation, transmitting Directives; Dornier Model 328–100 Series Air- (RIN: 2120–AA64) received April 13, 1998, pur- the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness planes [Docket No. 97–NM–62–AD; Amend- suant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Commit- Directives; Schempp-Hirth K.G. Models Nim- ment 39–10434; AD 98–07–14] (RIN: 2120–AA64) tee on Transportation and Infrastructure. bus-2B, Mini-Nimbus B, Discus a, Discus b received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 8632. A letter from the General Counsel, Sailplanes [Docket No. 96–CE–19–AD; Amend- 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- Department of Transportation, transmitting ment 39–10439; AD 97–08–02 R1] (RIN: 2120– tation and Infrastructure. the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness AA64) received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 8622. A letter from the General Counsel, Directives; Robinson Helicopter Company U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Department of Transportation, transmitting Model R44 Helicopters [Docket No. 98–SW–08– Transportation and Infrastructure. the Department’s final rule—Drawbridge Op- AD; Amendment 39–10461; AD 98–04–12] (RIN: 8642. A letter from the General Counsel, eration Regulations: Hutchinson River, NY 2120–AA64) received April 13, 1998, pursuant Department of Transportation, transmitting [CGD01–97–125] (RIN: 2115–AE47) received to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. Transportation and Infrastructure. Directives; Airbus Model A300–600 Series Air- 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- 8633. A letter from the General Counsel, planes [Docket No. 95–NM–92–AD; Amend- tation and Infrastructure. Department of Transportation, transmitting ment 39–10451; AD 98–08–02] (RIN: 2120–AA64) 8623. A letter from the General Counsel, the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. Department of Transportation, transmitting Directives; Eurocopter France Model SA 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- the Department’s final rule—Drawbridge Op- 330F, G, and J, and AS 332C, L, L1, and L2 tation and Infrastructure. eration Regulations: Richmond Creek, NY Helicopters [Docket No. 97–SW–27–AD; 8643. A letter from the General Counsel, [CGD01–98–013] (RIN: 2115–AE47) received Amendment 39–10462; AD 98–08–13] (RIN: 2120– Department of Transportation, transmitting April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. AA64) received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Directives; Saab Model SAAB 340B Series tation and Infrastructure. Transportation and Infrastructure. Airplanes [Docket No. 98–NM–49–AD; Amend- 8624. A letter from the General Counsel, 8634. A letter from the General Counsel, ment 39–10449] (RIN: 2120–AA64) received Department of Transportation, transmitting Department of Transportation, transmitting April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. the Department’s final rule—Drawbridge Op- the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- eration Regulations: North River, MA Directives; Eurocopter France Model SA tation and Infrastructure. [CGD01–97–126] (RIN: 2115–AE47) received 365N, N1 and AS 365N2 Helicopters [Docket 8644. A letter from the General Counsel, April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. No. 97–SW–21–AD; Amendment 39–10463; AD Department of Transportation, transmitting 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- 98–08–14] (RIN: 2120–AA64) received April 13, the Department’s final rule—Establishment tation and Infrastructure. 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the of Class E Airspace; Cooperstown, ND Cor- 8625. A letter from the General Counsel, Committee on Transportation and Infra- rection [Airspace Docket No. 97–AGL–50] re- Department of Transportation, transmitting structure. ceived April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. the Department’s final rule—Drawbridge Op- 8635. A letter from the General Counsel, 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- eration Regulations: Sheepscot River, ME Department of Transportation, transmitting tation and Infrastructure. [CGD01–97–128] (RIN: 2115–AE47) received the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness 8645. A letter from the General Counsel, April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. Directives; Aerospatiale Model ATR42–500 Department of Transportation, transmitting 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- Series Airplanes [Docket No. 98–NM–107–AD; the Department’s final rule—Amendment of tation and Infrastructure. Amendment 39–10457; AD98–08–08] (RIN: 2120– Class E Airspace; New Bern, NC [Airspace 8626. A letter from the General Counsel, AA64) received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 Docket No. 97–ASO–26] received April 13, Department of Transportation, transmitting U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the the Department’s final rule—Drawbridge Op- Transportation and Infrastructure. Committee on Transportation and Infra- eration Regulations: Presumpscot River, ME 8636. A letter from the General Counsel, structure. [CGD01–97–124] (RIN: 2115–AE47) received Department of Transportation, transmitting 8646. A letter from the General Counsel, April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness Department of Transportation, transmitting 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- Directives; Fokker Model F28 Mark 0070 and the Department’s final rule—Special Use tation and Infrastructure. Mark 0100 Series Airplanes [Docket No. 97– Airspace [Docket No. 29179; Amendment No. 8627. A letter from the General Counsel, NM–249–AD; Amendment 39–10450; AD 98–08– 73–8] received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 Department of Transportation, transmitting 01] (RIN: 2120–AA64) received April 13, 1998, U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on the Department’s final rule—Drawbridge Op- pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Com- Transportation and Infrastructure. eration Regulations: Fore River, ME [CGD01– mittee on Transportation and Infrastruc- 8647. A letter from the General Counsel, 97–127] (RIN: 2115–AE47) received April 13, ture. Department of Transportation, transmitting 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the 8637. A letter from the General Counsel, the Department’s final rule—Revocation of Committee on Transportation and Infra- Department of Transportation, transmitting Class E Airspace; Spofford, TX [Airspace structure. the Department’s final rule—Establishment Docket No. 98–ASW–21] received April 13, 8628. A letter from the General Counsel, of Class D Airspace: Fayetteville (Spring- 1997, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Department of Transportation, transmitting dale), AR [Airspace Docket No. 97–ASW–19] Committee on Transportation and Infra- the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. structure. Directives; AERMACCI S.p.A. Models S.208 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- 8648. A letter from the Acting Assistant and S.208A Airplanes [Docket No. 97–CE–140– tation and Infrastructure. Secretary for Employment and Training, De- AD; Amendment 39–10453; AD 98–08–04] (RIN: 8638. A letter from the General Counsel, partment of Labor, transmitting the Depart- 2120–AA64) received April 13, 1998, pursuant Department of Transportation, transmitting ment’s final rule—Unemployment Insurance to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness Program Letter [No. 18–98] received April 8, Transportation and Infrastructure. Directives; Pilatus Aircraft Ltd. Models PC– 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the 8629. A letter from the General Counsel, 12 and PC–12/45 Airplanes [Docket No. 97–CE– Committee on Ways and Means. Department of Transportation, transmitting 119–AD; Amendment 39–10438; AD 98–07–18] 8649. A letter from the Acting Assistant the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness (RIN: 2120–AA64) received April 13, 1998, pur- Secretary for Employment and Training, De- Directives; AERMACCI S.p.A. S.205 Series suant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Commit- partment of Labor, transmitting the Depart- and Models S.208 and S.208A Airplanes tee on Transportation and Infrastructure. ment’s final rule—Indian and Native Amer- [Docket No. 97–CE–144–AD; Amendment 39– 8639. A letter from the General Counsel, ican Welfare-To-Work Grants Program (RIN: 10455; AD 98–08–06] (RIN: 2120–AA64) received Department of Transportation, transmitting 1205–AB16) received April 1, 1998, pursuant to April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. the Department’s final rule—Airworthiness 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Transpor- Directives; Boeing Model 767 Series Air- Ways and Means. tation and Infrastructure. planes [Docket No. 98–NM–95–AD; Amend- 8650. A letter from the Chief, Regulations 8630. A letter from the General Counsel, ment 39–10448; AD 98–07–26] (RIN: 2120–AA64) Unit, Internal Revenue Service, transmitting Department of Transportation, transmitting received April 13, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. the Service’s final rule—Determination of April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2317

Issue Price in the Case of Certain Debt In- Environmental Protection Agency, transmit- HERGER, Mr. CANADY of Florida, and struments Issued for Property [Rev. Rul. 98– ting the Agency’s final rule—National Emis- Mr. HILLEARY): 23] received April 21, 1998, pursuant to 5 sion Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants H.R. 3720. A bill to repeal the Bilingual U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on for Source Category: Pulp and Paper Produc- Education Act and for certain other pur- Ways and Means. tion; Effluent Limitations Guidelines, poses; to the Committee on Education and 8651. A letter from the Assistant Secretary Pretreatment Standards, and New Source the Workforce. for Import Administration, International Performance Standards: Pulp, Paper, and Pa- By Mr. BASS: Trade Administration, transmitting the Ad- perboard Category (RIN: 2040–AB97) received H.R. 3721. A bill to amend the Federal Elec- ministration’s final rule—Antidumping Du- April 14, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. tion Campaign Act of 1971 to reform the fi- ties; Countervailing Duties [Docket No. 801(a)(1)(A); jointly to the Committees on the nancing of campaigns for election for Fed- 950306068–6361–04] (RIN: 0625–AA45) received Joint Committee on Printing and Commerce. eral office, and for other purposes; to the April 7, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); 8662. A letter from the Secretary of the Committee on House Oversight, and in addi- to the Committee on Ways and Means. Treasury, Securities and Exchange Commis- tion to the Committees on the Judiciary, 8652. A letter from the Administrator, Na- sion, and Board of Governors of the Federal and Government Reform and Oversight, for a tional Aeronautics and Space Administra- Reserve System, transmitting Secretary of period to be subsequently determined by the tion, transmitting the Administration’s final the Treasury, the Securities and Exchange Speaker, in each case for consideration of rule—Duty-Free Entry of Space Articles Commission, and the Board of Governors of such provisions as fall within the jurisdic- (RIN: 2700–AC12) received April 1, 1998, pursu- the Federal Reserve System: Joint Study of tion of the committee concerned. ant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee Regulatory System for Government Securi- By Mr. CHRISTENSEN (for himself, on Ways and Means. ties, pursuant to 15 U.S.C. 78o–5 nt.; jointly Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland, Mr. BE- 8653. A letter from the President, U.S. In- to the Committees on Commerce, Ways and REUTER, Mr. BURR of North Carolina, stitute of Peace, transmitting the Institute’s Means, and Banking and Financial Services. Mrs. CUBIN, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Ms. DUNN Fiscal Year 1997 Audit Report, pursuant to 22 f of Washington, Mrs. EMERSON, Mr. U.S.C. 4607(h); jointly to the Committees on ENSIGN, Mr. GANSKE, Mr. HOEKSTRA, Education and the Workforce and Inter- REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON Mr. ISTOOK, Mr. MANZULLO, Mrs. national Relations. MYRICK, Ms. PRYCE of Ohio, Mr. 8654. A letter from the Deputy Director, PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS RAMSTAD, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. SENSEN- OSG, Department of Health and Human Under clause 2 of rule XIII, reports of BRENNER, Mr. SHADEGG, Mr. SISISKY, Services, transmitting the Department’s committees were delivered to the Clerk Mr. TALENT, Mr. THOMAS, Mr. TRAFI- final rule—Medicare Program; Medicare Ap- for printing and reference to the proper CANT, and Mr. WOLF): peals of Individual Claims [BPD–453–FC] calendar, as follows: H.R. 3722. A bill to amend the Internal Rev- (RIN: 0938–AG18) received April 7, 1998, pursu- enue Code of 1986 to clarify the standards ant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); jointly to the Mr. ARCHER: Committee on Ways and used for determining whether individuals are Committees on Commerce and Ways and Means. H.R. 3546. A bill to provide for a na- not employees; to the Committee on Ways Means. tional dialogue on Social Security and to es- and Means. 8655. A letter from the Executive Director, tablish the bipartisan panel to design long- District of Columbia Financial Responsibil- By Mr. COBLE: range Social Security reform: with an H.R. 3723. A bill to authorize funds for the ity and Management Assistance Authority, amendment (Rept. 105–493). Referred to the payment of salaries and expenses of the Pat- transmitting a report entitled ‘‘The Opening Committee of the Whole House on the State ent and Trademark Office, and for other pur- of District of Columbia Public Schools for of the Union. poses; to the Committee on the Judiciary. the 1998–1999 Academic Year,’’ pursuant to f By Mr. CUMMINGS (for himself, Ms. Public Law 105–100, section 143; jointly to the KILPATRICK, Ms. DELAURO, Ms. Committees on Government Reform and PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS Oversight and Appropriations. PELOSI, Mr. PALLONE, Mr. MEEHAN, 8656. A letter from the Acting Director of Under clause 5 of Rule X and clause 4 Mr. FROST, Mr. HOYER, Mr. COYNE, Communications and Legislative Affairs, of Rule XXII, public bills and resolu- Ms. BROWN of Florida, Mr. JACKSON, Equal Employment Opportunity Commis- tions were introduced and severally re- Mr. SCOTT, Mr. OLVER, Mr. LEWIS of sion, transmitting the Commission’s Annual ferred, as follows: Georgia, Mr. NADLER, Mr. HILLIARD, Report for Fiscal Year 1995, pursuant to 42 Ms. SLAUGHTER, Mr. LANTOS, Mr. By Mr. MCINNIS: KENNEDY of Massachusetts, Mr. U.S.C. 2000e–4(e); jointly to the Committees H.R. 3715. A bill to authorize the Secretary on the Judiciary and Education and the RUSH, Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts, of the Interior to convey the facilities of the Mrs. MALONEY of New York, Mr. Workforce. Pine River Project, to allow jurisdictional 8657. A letter from the Secretary of Trans- STARK, Mr. MOAKLEY, Ms. LOFGREN, transfer of lands between the Department of portation, transmitting a draft of proposed Mr. OWENS, Mr. KUCINICH, Mr. BOR- Agriculture, Forest Service, and the Depart- legislation to authorize activities under the SKI, Mr. GONZALEZ, Mr. BARRETT of ment of the Interior, Bureau of Reclamation, Federal Railroad safety laws for fiscal years Wisconsin, Mr. THOMPSON, Mr. MEEKS and the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and for 1999 through 2002, and for other purposes; of New York, Mr. BONIOR, Mr. CLAY, other purposes; to the Committee on Re- jointly to the Committees on Transportation Mr. DAVIS of Illinois, and Mr. PAYNE): and Infrastructure and the Judiciary. sources. H.R. 3724. A bill to provide for the continu- 8658. A letter from the Deputy Director, By Mrs. LOWEY (for herself and Mrs. ation of the demonstration program, known OSG, Department of Health and Human MORELLA): as the Healthy Start Initiative, that is car- Services, transmitting the Department’s H.R. 3716. A bill to amend the Public ried out by the Secretary of Health and final rule—Medicare and Medicaid Programs; Health Service Act to extend the program of Human Services as a program of grants to New Payment Methodology for Routine Ex- research on breast cancer; to the Committee reduce the rate of infant mortality; to the tended Care Services Provided in a Swing- on Commerce. Committee on Commerce. Bed Hospital [BPD–805–F] (RIN: 0938–AG68) By Mr. SOLOMON (for himself, Mr. By Mr. GREENWOOD: received April 7, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. WICKER, Mr. HASTERT, Mr. BARR of H.R. 3725. A bill to make the Occupational 801(a)(1)(A); jointly to the Committees on Georgia, and Mr. DELAY): Safety and Health Act of 1970 applicable to Ways and Means and Commerce. H.R. 3717. A bill to prohibit the expendi- the United States Postal Service in the same 8659. A letter from the Office of Inspector ture of Federal funds for the distribution of manner as any other employer; to the Com- General, Department of Health and Human needles or syringes for the hypodermic injec- mittee on Education and the Workforce, and Services, transmitting the Department’s tion of illegal drugs; to the Committee on in addition to the Committee on Government final rule—Medicare and State Health Care Commerce. Reform and Oversight, for a period to be sub- Programs: Fraud and Abuse; Issuance of Ad- By Mr. DELAY: sequently determined by the Speaker, in visory Opinions by the OIG (RIN: 0991–AA85) H.R. 3718. A bill to limit the jurisdiction of each case for consideration of such provi- received March 26, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. the Federal courts with respect to prison re- sions as fall within the jurisdiction of the 801(a)(1)(A); jointly to the Committees on lease orders; to the Committee on the Judici- committee concerned. Ways and Means and Commerce. ary. By Mr. GUTIERREZ: 8660. A letter from the Regulations Officer, By Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland: H.R. 3726. A bill to amend the Electronic Department of Health and Human Services, H.R. 3719. A bill to authorize the construc- Fund Transfer Act to require additional dis- transmitting the Department’s final rule— tion of a monument to honor those who have closures relating to exchange rates in trans- Health Care Programs: Fraud and Abuse; Re- served the Nation’s civil defense and emer- fers involving international transactions; to vised PRO Sanctions for Failing To Meet gency management programs; to the Com- the Committee on Banking and Financial Statutory Obligations (RIN: 0991–AA86) re- mittee on Resources. Services. ceived March 26, 1998, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. By Mr. DELAY (for himself, Mr. KING By Mr. LAZIO of New York (for him- 801(a)(1)(A); jointly to the Committees on of New York, Mr. SOLOMON, Mr. LIV- self, Mr. QUINN, Mr. HORN, and Mr. Ways and Means and Commerce. INGSTON, Mr. ARCHER, Mr. STUMP, Mr. BOEHLERT): 8661. A letter from the Director, Office of DOOLITTLE, Mr. CUNNINGHAM, Mr. H.R. 3727. A bill to provide loan forgiveness Regulatory Management and Information, ROHRABACHER, Mr. PAUL, Mr. for individuals who earn a degree in early H2318 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998

childhood education, and enter and remain to House Resolution 388 memorializing Con- H.R. 1398: Mr. OBERSTAR. employed in the early child care profession, gress to authorize a ten-year extension of H.R. 1415: Mr. CUMMINGS. to provide loan cancellation for certain child the Delaware and Lehigh Navigation Canal H.R. 1492: Mr. CUNNINGHAM. care providers, and for other purposes; to the National Heritage Corridor Act and to au- H.R. 1521: Mr. BOYD and Mr. MCCRERY. Committee on Education and the Workforce. thorize continued Federal support for cor- H.R. 1570: Mr. SHERMAN. By Mr. OBEY: ridor projects; to the Committee on Re- H.R. 1689: Mr. RYUN. H.R. 3728. A bill to amend the Robert T. sources. H.R. 1766: Mr. DREIER, Ms. KILPATRICK, and Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency As- 286. Also, a memorial of the Senate of the Mr. HILLIARD. sistance Act and other laws to return pri- State of Kansas, relative to Senate Resolu- H.R. 1773: Mr. BOYD. mary responsibility for disaster relief to the tion No. 1835 memorializing the United H.R. 2009: Mr. CALVERT, Mr. HILLIARD, Mr. States, to establish a private corporation to States Congress to enact legislation on tax- NEY, Mr. DEFAZIO and Ms. SANCHEZ. insure States against risks and costs of dis- ation of electronic commerce that will treat H.R. 2019: Mr. CLEMENT. asters otherwise borne by the States, and to in-state and out-of-state retailers in an equi- H.R. 2020: Mr. MARTINEZ, Mr. CALVERT, Mr. provide for reimbursable Federal assistance table fashion and help preserve the integrity FOX of Pennsylvania, Mr. SANDLIN, Mr. LAN- to States for activities in response to disas- of the tax systems of state and local govern- TOS, Mr. DOYLE, and Mr. MASCARA. ters, and for other purposes; to the Commit- ments; to the Committee on the Judiciary. H.R. 2023: Mr. FROST, Mr. FILNER, Mr. LAN- tee on Transportation and Infrastructure, 287. Also, a memorial of the House of Rep- TOS, Mr. BROWN of California, Mrs. MEEK of and in addition to the Committees on Agri- resentatives of the State of Pennsylvania, Florida, and Mr. KILDEE. culture, Small Business, and Banking and relative to House Resolution 296 memorializ- H.R. 2163: Ms. PRYCE of Ohio. H.R. 2351: Mr. SCHUMER and Mr. FATTAH. Financial Services, for a period to be subse- ing the Congress of the United States to H.R. 2409: Mr. HINCHEY. quently determined by the Speaker, in each enact legislation directing the Environ- H.R. 2538: Mr. BARTON of Texas, Mr. BRADY, case for consideration of such provisions as mental Protection Agency to return no less Ms. DUNN of Washington, Mr. FOSSELLA, Mr. fall within the jurisdiction of the committee than 80% of all fines and penalties collected HOSTETTLER, Mr. JONES, Mr. PAXON, Mr. concerned. from any municipality, its authorities or RYUN, Mr. SNOWBARGER, Ms. FURSE, Mr. By Ms. PRYCE of Ohio: agencies to same for the rehabilitation of the MARTINEZ, Mr. MORAN of Kansas, and Mr. H.R. 3729. A bill to ensure that prisoners existing facilities to required environmental LINDER. are not permitted unsupervised access to any standards; to the Committee on Transpor- H.R. 2549: Mr. PETERSON of Minnesota. interactive computer service; to the Com- tation and Infrastructure. H.R. 2568: Mr. BERRY. mittee on the Judiciary. 288. Also, a memorial of the Senate of the H.R. 2639: Ms. HARMAN and Mr. CONYERS. By Mr. SHAW (for himself and Mr. JEF- State of Tennessee, relative to Senate Reso- H.R. 2671: Mr. NADLER. FERSON): lution No. 106 memorializing the United H.R. 2678: Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts. H.R. 3730. A bill to amend the Internal Rev- States Congress to maintain the incentive H.R. 2704: Mr. DIXON. enue Code of 1986 to provide for the elimi- grant approach to accomplishing the shared H.R. 2713: Mr. GUTIERREZ. nation of certain foreign base company ship- public safety objectives and to refrain from H.R. 2714: Mr. GIBBONS. ping income from foreign base company in- imposing federal mandates to accomplish H.R. 2733: Mr. MURTHA, Mr. GUTIERREZ, Mr. come; to the Committee on Ways and Means. such objectives; to the Committee on Trans- DEAL of Georgia, Mr. YATES, Mr. CALLAHAN, By Mr. SKEEN (for himself, Mr. portation and Infrastructure. Mr. SHAYS, Mr. RUSH, Mr. ANDREWS, Mr. REDMOND, Mr. SENSENBRENNER, and 289. Also, a memorial of the Legislature of MCCOLLUM, Mr. MCDERMOTT, Ms. LOFGREN, Mr. PICKERING): the State of Idaho, relative to Senate Joint Mr. EVERETT, and Mr. MCNULTY. H.R. 3731. A bill to designate the audito- Memorial No. 106 memorializing the U.S. H.R. 2752: Mr. KIM and Mr. DREIER. rium located within the Sandia Technology Army Corps of Engineers and the Bonneville H.R. 2829: Mr. ENSIGN. Transfer Center in Albuquerque, New Mex- Power Administration to reassess the most H.R. 2876: Ms. STABENOW. ico, as the ‘‘Steve Schiff Auditorium’’; to the recent program recommendations and retain H.R. 2888: Mr. INGLIS of South Carolina and Committee on National Security. a policy of spreading the risks to assure per- Mr. BEREUTER. By Mr. TIAHRT: petuation of the salmon fish run in the H.R. 2898: Mr. SANDERS. H.R. 3732. A bill to amend title II of the So- Salmon and Columbia river systems; jointly H.R. 2912: Mr. DAVIS of Illinois. cial Security Act to waive the waiting period to the Committees on Transportation and In- H.R. 2921: Mr. CHAMBLISS, Mr. SANDERS, otherwise required for disability bene- frastructure and Resources. and Ms. KAPTUR. ficiaries in the case of individuals suffering f H.R. 2929: Mr. LIVINGSTON. from terminal illnesses with not more than H.R. 2949: Mr. LATHAM. six months to live, and to amend titles II and ADDITIONAL SPONSORS H.R. 2963: Ms. KILPATRICK, Mrs. MINK of XVI of such Act to provide for appropriate Under clause 4 of rule XXII, sponsors Hawaii, Mr. STRICKLAND, and Mr. LANTOS. treatment of prisoners; to the Committee on H.R. 2983: Mr. DOYLE and Mr. MENENDEZ. Ways and Means. were added to public bills and resolu- H.R. 2994: Ms. NORTON. f tions as follows: H.R. 3050: Mr. GONZALEZ. H.R. 59: Mr. GOODLING. H.R. 3081: Mr. ACKERMAN, Mr. MCGOVERN, MEMORIALS H.R. 66: Mrs. KELLY. Mr. GEJDENSON, and Ms. ESHOO. Under clause 4 of rule XXII, memori- H.R. 68: Ms. HOOLEY of Oregon. H.R. 3107: Mr. TIERNEY, Mrs. MALONEY of als were presented and referred as fol- H.R. 218: Mr. HALL of Ohio and Ms. DUNN of New York, and Mr. BILIRAKIS. Washington. H.R. 3121: Mr. BENTSEN. lows: H.R. 225: Mr. FOLEY. H.R. 3126: Mr. DAVIS of Florida. 282. The SPEAKER presented a memorial H.R. 322: Mr. BOEHLERT. H.R. 3156: Mr. STRICKLAND. of the Legislature of the State of Colorado, H.R. 530: Mr. NEUMANN, Mr. ROYCE, Mr. H.R. 3167: Mrs. LOWEY, Mr. SCHUMER, Mr. relative to House Joint Resolution 98–1013 SALMON, and Mr. GOODLATTE. BOEHLERT, Mr. MCHUGH, Mr. TOWNS, Mrs. memorializing the relocation of the ex- H.R. 619: Mr. HASTERT, Mr. TRAFICANT, and MALONEY of New York, Mr. HINCHEY, Mr. change and commissary at Fitzsimons Army Mr. LAMPSON. QUINN, Mr. MCNULTY, Mr. MANTON, Ms. Garrison to new facilities to be constructed H.R. 716: Mr. MCCRERY. SLAUGHTER, Mr. FOSSELLA, Mr. ENGEL, Mr. at Buckley Air National Guard Base; to the H.R. 738: Mr. SMITH of Texas. MEEKS of New York, Mr. NADLER, Mr. Committee on National Security. H.R. 814: Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin. WALSH, Ms. VELA´ ZQUEZ, Mr. OWENS, Mr. 283. Also, a memorial of the Legislature of H.R. 815: Mr. TRAFICANT and Mr. MEEKS of SERRANO, Mr. GILMAN, Mr. SOLOMON, Mr. LA- the State of Kansas, relative to House Con- New York. FALCE, Mr. HOUGHTON, Mrs. KELLY, Mr. RAN- current Resolution No. 5035 memorializing H.R. 860: Ms. EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON of GEL, and Mr. PAXON. the Congress not to take action to mandate Texas and Ms. STABENOW. H.R. 3181: Mr. WYNN. competition in retail sales of electricity and H.R. 864: Ms. HOOLEY of Oregon, Mr. BOR- H.R. 3217: Mr. LEWIS of Georgia. to leave that responsibility to the individual SKI, Mr. SISISKY, Mr. SCOTT, and Mr. KLECZ- H.R. 3236: Mr. FRANKS of New Jersey, Ms. states; to the Committee on Commerce. KA. NORTON, Ms. RIVERS, Mrs. MORELLA, Mr. 284. Also, a memorial of the House of Rep- H.R. 965: Ms. PRYCE of Ohio and Mr. RIGGS. CANADY of Florida, Mr. BEREUTER, Mr. AR- resentatives of the State of Pennsylvania, H.R. 979: Mr. SCHUMER, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. CHER, and Mr. MORAN of Virginia. relative to House Resolution 294 memorializ- GIBBONS, and Mr. STUPAK. H.R. 3243: Mr. CANADY of Florida. ing the Congress of the United States and H.R. 991: Mr. TOWNS. H.R. 3249: Mr. DAVIS of Illinois. the Federal Communications Commission to H.R. 1023: Mr. KLINK. H.R. 3259: Mrs. CLAYTON. all state regulatory agencies the flexibility H.R. 1126: Mr. TURNER and Mr. POMBO. H.R. 3281: Mr. COOK, Ms. HARMAN, and Mr. they need to conserve available telephone H.R. 1231: Mr. PETERSON of Pennsylvania. MARKEY. numbers and so extend the useful lives of ex- H.R. 1311: Mr. BONIOR. H.R. 3295: Mr. COYNE, Ms. LEE, Mr. isting area codes; to the Committee on Com- H.R. 1320: Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin and MCDERMOTT, Mr. MCHALE, Mr. KASICH, and merce. Mr. KILDEE. Mr. ENGEL. 285. Also, a memorial of the Legislature of H.R. 1356: Mr. RAHALL, Ms. GRANGER, and H.R. 3331: Mr. BOEHNER, Mr. CALVERT, and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, relative Ms. SANCHEZ. Mr. PAPPAS. April 23, 1998 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H2319

H.R. 3342: Mr. BARRETT of Wisconsin and MCHALE, Mr. LOBIONDO, Mr. MALONEY of make a grant to, the Council on Legal Edu- Mr. OLVER. Connecticut, Mr. TOWNS, Ms. HARMAN, Ms. cation Opportunity, for a period of no less H.R. 3379: Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN, Mr. KILPATRICK, Mr. MCKEON, Mr. CLAY, and Mr. than 5 years— MCDERMOTT, Mr. RUSH, and Mr. FROST. GALLEGLY. ‘‘(1) to identify individuals from low-in- H.R. 3396: Mr. SHAW, Mr. GOODLATTE, and H. Con. Res. 217: Mr. CALVERT. come, minority, and disadvantaged back- Mr. TAYLOR of North Carolina. H. Con. Res. 225: Mrs. KELLY, Mr. WAXMAN, grounds; H.R. 3441: Mr. BOEHLERT, Mr. TOWNS, Mr. Ms. WOOLSEY, Mr. HILLIARD, Mr. GUTIERREZ, ‘‘(2) to prepare such individuals for study WELDON of Pennsylvania, Mr. EHLERS, Mrs. and Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA. at accredited law schools; ROUKEMA, Mr. PORTER, Mr. MCHUGH, and Ms. H. Con. Res. 228: Mr. BLUMENAUER and Mr. ‘‘(3) to assist students to select the appro- FURSE. BARRETT of Wisconsin. priate law school, make application for entry H.R. 3469: Mr. CUMMINGS, Mr. WEYGAND, H. Con. Res. 229: Mr. BALDACCI, Mr. into law school, and receive financial assist- Mr. KLINK, and Mr. LEWIS of Georgia BLUMENAUER, Mr. CRANE, Mrs. CUBIN, Mr. ance for such study; H.R. 3506: Mr. BERRY, Ms. ESHOO, Mr. DELAHUNT, Ms. ESHOO, Mr. FARR of Califor- ‘‘(4) to provide support services to first- KOLBE, Mr. ROGAN, Mr. MILLER of California, nia, Mr. FORD, Mr. GOSS, Mr. KIND of Wiscon- year law students to improve retention and Mr. MATSUI, Mr. JOHNSON of Wisconsin, Mr. sin, Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York, Mr. success in law school studies; and PETERSON of Minnesota, Ms. STABENOW, Mr. MCDERMOTT, Mr. MURTHA, Mr. SALMON, Mr. ‘‘(5) to motivate and prepare such students REDMOND, Mr. FORBES, Mr. HALL of Texas, DAN SCHAEFER of Colorado, Mr. SPRATT, Mr. in law school studies and practice in low-in- Mr. SHAW, and Mrs. ROUKEMA. SUNUNU, Mr. WALSH, Mr. WELDON of Pennsyl- come communities. H.R. 3510: Mr. CLYBURN. vania, and Mr. WEXLER. ‘‘(c) SERVICES PROVIDED.—In carrying out H.R. 3511: Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut, H. Con. Res. 239: Mr. GEJDENSON and Ms. the purposes described in subsection (b), the Mr. ENGLISH of Pennsylvania, Mr. STRICK- WOOLSEY. contract or grant shall provide for the deliv- LAND, Mr. CARDIN, Mr. MANZULLO, Mr. BURR H. Con. Res. 249: Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA and of North Carolina, Mr. RANGEL, and Mr. Mr. POSHARD. ery of services through prelaw information BECERRA. H. Res. 37: Mr. SAXTON, Mr. SABO, Mr. resource centers, summer institutes, and H.R. 3513: Mr. RANGEL, Mrs. THURMAN, and MICA, and Mr. STOKES. midyear seminars conducted under this sec- Mr. BALDACCI. H. Res. 399: Mr. MORAN of Kansas. tion. Such services may include— H.R. 3523: Mr. GOODE, Mr. HOSTETTLER, Mr. f ‘‘(1) information and counseling regard- LAZIO of New York, Mr. REDMOND, Mr. ing— WHITE, Mr. HOLDEN, Mr. TIERNEY, Mr. PICK- DELETIONS OF SPONSORS FROM ‘‘(A) accredited law school academic pro- ERING, Mr. OXLEY, Mr. LEWIS of Kentucky, PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS grams, especially tuition, fees, and admis- Mr. LATOURETTE, Mr. HULSHOF, Mr. KIND of sion requirements; Wisconsin, Mr. POMBO, Mr. DAVIS of Illinois, Under clause 4 of rule XXII, sponsors ‘‘(B) course work offered and required for Mr. HILL, Mr. CRANE, and Mr. HINCHEY. were deleted from public bills and reso- graduation; H.R. 3538: Mr. STARK, Mr. LEWIS of Georgia, lutions as follows: ‘‘(C) faculty specialties and areas of legal and Mr. ROMERO-BARCELO. H.R. 3156: Mr. COOKSEY. emphasis; H.R. 3552: Mr. HUTCHINSON and Mr. KING- ‘‘(D) undergraduate preparatory courses f STON. and curriculum selection; H.R. 3553: Mr. SERRANO, Ms. EDDIE BERNICE DISCHARGE PETITIONS— ‘‘(2) tutoring and academic counseling, in- JOHNSON of Texas, Mr. BLAGOJEVICH, and Ms. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS cluding assistance in preparing for bar ex- ROS-LEHTINEN. aminations; H.R. 3561: Mr. GUTIERREZ and Mr. OLVER. The following Members added their ‘‘(3) prelaw mentoring programs, involving H.R. 3567: Mr. LOBIONDO, Mr. SHAW, and names to the following discharge peti- law school faculty, members of State and Mr. WEYGAND. tions: local bar associations, and retired and sit- H.R. 3568: Mr. SKEEN and Ms. DELAURO. Petition 3 by Mr. BAESLER on House Res- ting judges, justices, and magistrates; H.R. 3595: Mr. MORAN of Virginia and Mr. olution 259: Amo Houghton, Thomas M. ‘‘(4) assistance in identifying preparatory LAFALCE. Davis, Zach Wamp, Bennie G. Thompson, courses and material for the law school apti- H.R. 3610: Mr. KENNEDY of Rhode Island, Barbara Lee, Frank R. Wolf, Brian P. tude or admissions tests; Mr. PETERSON of Pennsylvania, and Mr. Bilbray, Lee H. Hamilton, and Tim Roemer. ‘‘(5) summer institutes for Thurgood Mar- COBURN. shall Fellows which expose them to a rigor- H.R. 3613: Mr. COMBEST, Mr. STEARNS, Ms. The following Members’ names were with- ous curriculum that emphasizes abstract NORTON, Mr. CALVERT, Ms. PRYCE of Ohio, drawn from the following discharge petition: thinking, legal analysis, research, writing, Mr. BISHOP, Mr. HALL of Texas, Mr. Petition 3 by Mr. BAESLER on House Res- and examination techniques; and ADERHOLT, Mr. HUTCHINSON, Mr. KENNEDY of olution 259: Christopher Shays, Frank R. ‘‘(6) midyear seminars and other edu- Rhode Island, Mr. MCINTOSH, Mr. WOLF, Ms. Wolf, Amo Houghton, James A. Leach, Zach cational activities designed to reinforce SANCHEZ, Mr. MCKEON, Mr. WATKINS, Mr. Wamp, Marge Roukema, Tom Campbell, reading, writing, and studying skills of EHRLICH, Mr. FROST, Mr. HAYWORTH, Mr. Nancy L. Johnson, Thomas M. Davis, Brian Thurgood Marshall Fellows during the first KUCINICH, and Mr. BOYD. P. Bilbray, and Michael N. Castle. year of law school study. H.R. 3624: Mr. FALEOMAVAEGA, Mr. PAYNE, f Mr. FROST, Ms. KAPTUR, Mr. WAXMAN, Mr. ‘‘(d) SUBGRANTS AND SUBCONTRACTS.—For SANDLIN, and Mr. POSHARD. AMENDMENTS the purposes of planning, developing, or de- H.R. 3629: Mr. MCKEON. livering one or more of the services described H.R. 3651: Mr. ACKERMAN and Mr. HINCHEY. Under clause 6 of rule XXIII, pro- in subsection (c), the Council on Legal Edu- H.R. 3652: Mr. FRANK of Massachusetts, posed amendments were submitted as cation Opportunity shall make subgrants to, Mrs. MALONEY of New York, Mr. BONIOR, Mr. follows: and subcontracts with, institutions of higher DAVIS of Florida, Mr. GORDON, and Mr. H.R. 6 education, law schools, public and private TORRES. OFFERED BY: MR. CUMMINGS agencies and organizations, and combina- H.R. 3659: Mr. CALLAHAN, Mr. GOODE, Mr. tions of such institutions, schools, agencies, AMENDMENT NO. 1: Page 104, after line 15, SESSIONS, Mr. ISTOOK, Mr. SMITH of Texas, and organizations. and Mr. WYNN. insert the following new subsection: H.R. 3668: Mr. WATTS of Oklahoma and Mr. (h) THURGOOD MARSHALL LEGAL EDUCATION ‘‘(e) STIPENDS.—The Secretary shall annu- SPENCE. OPPORTUNITY PROGRAM.—Chapter 1 of sub- ally establish the maximum stipend to be H.R. 3672: Mr. LEWIS of Georgia, Mr. MOAK- part 2 of part A of title IV is amended by in- paid (including allowances for participant LEY, Mr. MCGOVERN, Mr. DELAHUNT, and Mr. serting after section 402H (20 U.S.C. 1070a-18) travel and for their dependents) to Thurgood GUTIERREZ. the following new section: Marshall Fellows for the period of prelaw H.J. Res. 89: Ms. KILPATRICK, Ms. ‘‘SEC. 402I. LEGAL EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY preparation in summer institutes and mid- STABENOW, and Mr. FROST. PROGRAM. year seminar prior to and during the period H.J. Res. 99: Mr. FILNER, Mr. FRANKS of ‘‘(a) PROGRAM AUTHORITY.—The Secretary of law school study. A Fellow may be eligible New Jersey, Mr. PASCRELL, and Mr. OLVER. shall carry out a program to be known as the for such a stipend only if the Fellow main- H. Con. Res. 36: Mr. ARMEY and Mr. HALL of ‘Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Op- tains satisfactory academic progress toward Texas. portunity Program’ designed to provide low- the Juris Doctor or Bachelor of Laws degree, H. Con. Res. 52: Mrs. LINDA SMITH of Wash- income, minority, and disadvantaged college as determined by the respective institutions. ington, Mr. WAMP, and Mr. DUNCAN. students with the information, preparation, H. Con. Res. 181: Ms. GRANGER, Mr. BOYD, and financial assistance to gain access to ‘‘(f) MAXIMUM GRANT LEVEL.—For any year Mr. GUTKNECHT, Mr. COSTELLO, Mr. BILBRAY, and complete law school study. for which an appropriation is made to carry Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania, Mr. COBLE, Mr. ‘‘(b) CONTRACT AUTHORIZED.—Subject to out this chapter, the Secretary shall allocate TALENT, Mr. SNYDER, Mr. SUNUNU, Mr. BOEH- the availability of amounts appropriated not more than $5,000,000 for the purpose of LERT, Mr. STARK, Mrs. CAPPS, Mr. SHUSTER, pursuant to section 402A(f), the Secretary is providing the services described in sub- Mr. DAVIS of Illinois, Mr. MATSUI, Mr. authorized to enter into a contract with, or section (c).’’. H2320 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE April 23, 1998 H.R. 6 timely manner consistent with the require- Secretary of Education to forgive the entire OFFERED BY: MR. MCGOVERN ments of section 482 and the submission of balance due, or any portion thereof, on any AMENDMENT NO. 2: Page 95, after line 7, in- the financial aid form required by section loan made to the Suomi College of Hancock, sert the following new subsection (and redes- 483. For such purposes, the Secretary may Michigan, under part C or part F of title III ignate the succeeding subsections accord- provide that, for the first of a student’s two of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (as in ef- ingly): academic years of eligibility under this sec- fect on the day before the date of enactment (e) PELL GRANT INCENTIVES.—Section 401(b) tion, class rank may be determined prior to of the Higher Education Amendments of is further amended by adding at the end the graduation, at such time and in such manner 1992), or under the College Housing and Aca- following new paragraph: as the Secretary may specify in the regula- demic Facilities Loan program, or any other ‘‘(9) (A) Notwithstanding the preceding tions prescribed under this subsection.’’. federally subsidized, insured, or authorized provisions of this subsection, the amount of H.R. 6 loan program designed to assist institutions the basic grant under this section awarded to OFFERED BY: MR. PAUL of higher education to construct academic or a student during the first two academic dormitory facilities. years of undergraduate education who grad- AMENDMENT NO. 3: Page 50, line 13, at the uated in the top 10 percent of his or her high end of paragraph (1) add the following new H.R. 6 school graduating class shall be an amount sentence: ‘‘The Secretary shall not use the equal to twice the amount for which the stu- social security account numbers issued OFFERED BY: MR. STUPAK dent is eligible under this section as deter- under title II of the Social Security Act as the electronic personal identifier, and shall AMENDMENT NO. 5: Page 334, strike lines 20 mined without regard to the provisions of and 21 and insert the following: this paragraph. not use any identifier used in any other Fed- ‘‘(B) The Secretary shall establish by regu- eral program as the electronic personal iden- SEC. 806. REPEALS AND EXTENSIONS OF PRE- lation procedures for the determination of tifier.’’. VIOUS HIGHER EDUCATION AMEND- eligibility of students under subparagraph H.R. 6 MENTS PROVISIONS. (A). Such procedures shall include measures OFFERED BY: MR. STUPAK Page 335, line 7, strike ‘‘D, and E’’ and in- to prevent any secondary school from cer- AMENDMENT NO. 4: Page 327, after line 10, sert ‘‘and D’’; and after line 7, insert the fol- tifying more than 10 percent of it’s students lowing: for eligibility under this paragraph. insert the following new section (and con- ‘‘(C) In prescribing procedures under sub- form the table of contents accordingly): (3) OLYMPIC SCHOLARSHIPS.—Section 1543(d) paragraph (B), the Secretary shall ensure SEC. 705. FORGIVENESS AUTHORIZED. of the Higher Education Amendments of 1992 that the determination of eligibility and the There are authorized to be appropriated is amended by striking ‘‘1993’’ and inserting amount of the award is determined in a such sums as may be necessary to permit the ‘‘1999’’.