First Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LIX No. 16A – 10 a.m., Tuesday, October 9, 2007 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 963 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, October 9, 2007 The House met at 10 a.m. Saskatchewan and Alberta may be asking for power at some point in the future. PRAYER I suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, that this bill is ORDERS OF THE DAY important for a variety of reasons. It is important that PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS we get, as Manitobans, the very, very best possible situation for Manitoba Hydro. It is important for SECOND READINGS–PUBLIC BILLS Manitobans because wise decisions being made by Bill 205–The Manitoba Hydro Amendment Act Manitoba Hydro will have an impact on all of us, and if decisions are made which are suboptimal, that will Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, I have an impact on all of us because it will result in move, seconded by the MLA for Inkster (Mr. increases in hydro rates, in inadequate results for Lamoureux), that Bill 205, The Manitoba Hydro people in the north or the south in terms of what Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur l'Hydro- happens with Manitoba Hydro. Manitoba, be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. I think that we all know that a year or two ago there was a CBC story about problems in the way Motion presented. Manitoba Hydro dollars were being spent in northern Mr. Gerrard: Mr. Speaker, this bill provides that Manitoba. This led to some serious questions and before an appointment is made to the board of ongoing audits, we understand, perhaps even an Manitoba Hydro, the individual to be appointed investigation by the Auditor General which was appear before a Legislative committee and be ready requested. Clearly, we want to make sure that things to answer questions, questions about the are being done well and appropriately in Manitoba qualifications of the person and questions about the Hydro. It is time to end this behind-closed-doors type view of the individual with respect to Manitoba of government that the NDP are engaged in where Hydro, the future of Manitoba Hydro, what the decisions are made in secret, where there is not person who's being appointed to the board of public access to the views of individuals on Manitoba Hydro sees needs to be done in terms of Manitoba Hydro, and there is not a public process for moving Manitoba Hydro forward, and in terms of looking at the qualifications of individuals. ensuring that Manitoba Hydro is working for all I would certainly hope that the MLA for Flin Manitobans. Flon (Mr. Jennissen), for example, would stand up This bill is a bill which is long overdue in terms on this bill and describe to members in this Chamber of changing the governance of Manitoba Hydro. It is his views, because he's on the board, of the future of reflective of the fact that Manitoba Hydro is the most Manitoba Hydro. We've never had a chance to important Crown corporation in Manitoba. Manitoba question him in committee on his views because of Hydro's revenues and expenditures in this last year the nature of the behind-closed-doors appointment were over $2 billion. There are major decisions being process. The NDP have decided to continue the made day to day at Manitoba Hydro with respect to politicization of the most important Crown an east- or west-side power grid, with respect to new corporation in our province. I suggest to you, Mr. dams, with respect to hydro-electric power rates, Speaker, that it's time now, in the year 2007, to open with respect to issues surrounding environmental up this process to make things more open and licensing, issues surrounding First Nations and Métis transparent and to improve things for all of issues. Clearly, it is vital that we have people on the Manitoba. board of Manitoba Hydro who have varied and * (10:10) significant expertise and, I should add, important issues of marketing power internationally and Let me talk for a moment about some of the understanding the situation internationally, as well as varied expertise that really should be on the board. with other provinces like Ontario, or perhaps There is very important engineering that is being 964 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 9, 2007 done in terms of relationships to the building of the ensuring that we have the best possible board and dams, the transmission corridors. There are technical board members that we could have. Thank you. aspects to the transmission of power and what is Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of happening in the way that power is transmitted long Intergovernmental Affairs): I am very pleased to distances and new options for approaching the be able to speak at any time about Manitoba Hydro transmission of power and of energy. Environmental because I've always felt, Mr. Speaker, that this is our assessment has changed dramatically in the years great asset. We haven't even begun to see the since the first hydro-electric power dam was built, tremendous potential that we have in this province; and certainly now it is imperative that environmental because of our publicly owned hydro utility that is assessments be done well. As I've pointed out many now again on the move, continuing the pattern that times in this Chamber and elsewhere, the limits to when you have New Democrats in government you growth are very often environmental limits, and we see development in Manitoba Hydro, something that need to make sure we are taking care of the we have not seen from the Conservatives. I always environment well in whatever we do. This is clearly like to ask people, by the way, how many dams the particularly important with respect to Manitoba Conservatives built since 1969 in this province? Of Hydro. course, it's a trick question. The answer is zero. We have seen, Mr. Speaker, that the discussions, But I find it interesting the Liberals contributing consultations and interaction with First Nation and to the Hydro debate because, you know, Mr. Métis communities is very important with respect to Speaker, I'm very disappointed in the Member for Manitoba Hydro. And clearly we should have board River Heights. He's brought in this bill and bills are members who are knowledgeable in these areas as worthy of consideration on their merit. But to then to we should have a board member or members who are impugn the motives of the Manitoba Hydro board, knowledgeable in the marketing of power and and particularly the Member for Flin Flon (Mr. international markets. It's my experience that the Jennissen) and by extension in his comments, all time has passed when board members are just there members, I thought it was a bit much; because to show up, that it is very important that we have particularly coming from someone who's been active board members who are full participants. in the Liberal Party, the patronage machine of We saw this in the case of the Crocus Investment Canada, I don't think there was a living, breathing Fund where board members were not always Liberal that had run for office that wasn't appointed adequately looking after the interests of people, to a federal board at some point in time, and Crocus investment shareholders.