DÁIL ÉIREANN AN COMHCHOISTE UM FEIDHMIÚ CHOMHAONTÚ AOINE AN CHÉASTA JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE GOOD FRIDAY AGREEMENT Dé Máirt, 15 Meitheamh 2021 Tuesday, 15 June 2021 Tháinig an Comhchoiste le chéile ag 9.30 a.m. The Joint Committee met at 9.30 a.m. Comhaltaí a bhí i láthair / Members present: Teachtaí Dála / Deputies Seanadóirí / Senators Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, Frances Black, Rose Conway-Walsh, Niall Blaney, James Lawless, Emer Currie, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn, John McGahon, Brendan Smith. Niall Ó Donnghaile. I láthair / In attendance: Senator Erin McGreehan. Teachta / Deputy Fergus O’Dowd sa Chathaoir / in the Chair. 1 JIGFA Business of Joint Committee Chairman: Apologies have been received from Senators Mullen and Hoey, and Michelle Gildernew, MP. All Oireachtas Members have to attend this meeting remotely from their of- fices within the Leinster House complex. Remote participation from outside the Leinster House complex is not possible. If there is unwanted feedback, it may be necessary to mute everyone and then the person speaking can unmute himself or herself. This meeting is a continuation of our discussion with Ireland’s Future and so we will con- tinue from where we left off, sticking to the same rotation as in the previous meeting, starting with Sinn Féin, followed by the Labour Party and the Green Party. In the next round it will be Sinn Féin, the Labour Party, the Green Party, Independents and Aontú, followed by Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and SDLP. Is that agreed? Agreed. Engagement with Ireland’s Future (Resumed) Chairman: We continue our engagement with Mr. Niall Murphy, secretary, Ms Laura Har- mon and the Reverend Karen Sethuraman from Ireland’s Future. On behalf of the committee, I welcome them to the meeting. Before we begin, I have to read a note about privilege. The evidence of witnesses physically present from within the parliamentary precincts is protected pursuant to both the Constitution and statute by absolute privilege. However, witnesses and participants who are to give evi- dence from a location outside the parliamentary precincts are asked to note that they may not benefit from the same level of immunity from legal proceedings that a witness giving evidence from within the parliamentary precincts does and may consider it appropriate to take legal ad- vice on this matter. Witnesses are also asked to note that only evidence connected with the subject matter of the proceedings should be given. They should respect directions given by the Chairman and the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should neither criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the person’s or entity’s good name. I invite the Reverend Karen to make her opening statement. Reverend Karen Sethuraman: I thank the Chairman and the committee for the invitation to address them today. It is an honour. Since our previous meeting, I accepted the invitation to join the team at Ireland’s Future. It is privilege to be part of a hard-working group that is committed to putting their shoulder to the wheel regarding possible Irish unity. I made this decision with the blessing of my board, colleagues, family and friends. 2 15 JUNE 2021 Ireland’s Future was established to advocate for, promote debate on and discuss the future of Ireland, including the possibility and viability of new constitutional arrangements on the island. Furthermore, it is important to mention that Ireland’s Future makes it absolutely clear it is not a political party and is not affiliated to any political party. We welcome participation from people from all political persuasions and none who are interested in furthering the goals of Ireland’s Future. I have highlighted this particular point----- Chairman: We have lost the connection with Reverend Karen. Reverend Karen Sethuraman: Am I still here? Chairman: Yes, we can hear you now. Reverend Karen Sethuraman: Did you hear my remark about not being a political party? Chairman: Yes. It is the next part. Reverend Karen Sethuraman: I have highlighted this particular point as it is important to me for two reasons. First, my work as a minister centres on peace and reconciliation. I have the privilege of working with people from all backgrounds on this island, across the UK and further afield. Second, I believe it is critical that conversations regarding the future of Ireland extend beyond the political arena. During our previous discussion, I argued for a citizens’ assembly, as I am passionate that our conversations are not solely politically-led, but also extend to being people-led. When one gets to the core of what matters most to people, it is not their political stance. It is the bread and butter issues that affect all of us, concerning education, housing, healthcare, the economy and so forth. Therefore, I am sure the Chairman and members can understand my disappointment at some comments made to my colleague, Mr. Niall Murphy, at the previous committee meeting. One member, in an attempt to link us to a political party, publicly stated: “If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck”. I understand political opposition, but I kindly ask that this is not projected onto those of us who are not political. The work of peace and reconciliation calls us to have the courage to extend beyond our own boundaries and to step into all places and spaces. I was born into a unionist family. My family, friends and colleagues are unionists. I am currently involved in various projects, which include the Catholic and Protestant divide, gender equality, racism, LGBT+ rights and inter- faith work. I write a column for Belfast Media Group. I am a champion of progressive faith and public theology simply because I believe in equality, inclusion and creating a fair society for all. I have had the privilege of serving as chaplain to two Lord Mayors of Belfast. It was an honour to champion our city. My reason for sharing this is that peace and reconciliation are best exampled when people from very different backgrounds not only work together, but form friendships. I assure the committee that my work is not politically motivated or linked to any political party. This is important to me. Previously, I shared my vision of creating a nation of neighbours based on the ancient ques- tion: who is my neighbour? This question is foundational to my work, as I believe it has the potential to help provide a unifying framework to build a nation of neighbours. Thanks to the Anabaptist Mennonite Trust I have been accepted to begin a PhD this coming autumn on this very theme from a faith and theological perspective. This is important to me because I am your neighbour and you are mine. It does not matter what background we are from – we must always find ways to work and partner together, creating a better place to live. Even though it 3 JIGFA was disappointing to hear those comments, I was overwhelmed by the response and support for myself and the work of Ireland’s Future. We are not part of any political party. Those of us who are entrusted with a place of leadership have the responsibility to move away from name calling, labelling and any type of pigeon-holing. Let us learn to lead well and by example. Let us together, regardless of our background, put our shoulders to the wheel of peace and reconcili- ation and concentrate on the main thing, which is creating a better home and future for all of us. In conclusion, I extend the hand of friendship and welcome to the Chairman and all the members. I ask them to come to Belfast and spend time with us, to hear our stories and about the work in which we are involved. Chairman: Thank you. On the last point, the committee would be very happy to visit Belfast. In fact, the clerk to the committee has been asked to make those arrangements at the appropriate and suitable time. As Chairman, I will be happy to go as soon as possible, as would all the members. I wish to make two points. At the meeting Reverend Karen referred to, I made it clear that I refuted the allegations that were made. They were made by a Member of the Oireachtas, but he is not a member of this committee. I assume he was not familiar with the process we use here. I categorically assure you, Reverend Karen, that I absolutely accept that your work is not politically motivated or related to any political party. Reverend Karen Sethuraman: Thank you. Chairman: That is a fact about Ireland’s Future as well. Reverend Karen Sethuraman: I really appreciate that. Chairman: People are entitled to have political views and to express them. However, when one is with Ireland’s Future it is a different operation and different process, as you rightly point out. Coming from a unionist background, we are delighted to have Reverend Karen at our meetings. In fact, one of our biggest difficulties has been trying to get people from a unionist background to appear before the committee so we can appreciate and fully understand what their issues are, how we must deal with them, how we must recognise their right to have those views and how to live in an Ireland that allows them to hold those views respectfully and re- spects them as well.