Richard Overton's Oral History Interview MIKE ZAMBRANO: This Is

Home , Richard Arlen

Richard Overton's Oral History Interview

MIKE ZAMBRANO: This is Mike Zambrano. Today is December 3rd,

2013. I'm interviewing Mr. Richard Overton at his home in

Austin, Texas. This interview is in support of the Nimitz

Education and Research Center Archives for the National

Museum of the Pacific War in Texas, Texas Historical

Commission for the Preservation of Historical Information

related to the site. Good morning, sir, and how are you?

RICHARD OVERTON: You have to turn on the light, because I'm

telling you, I don't know why I got a little weak

(inaudible).

MZ: Oh, that's okay.

RO: Yeah.

MZ: Can you give me your full name, please?

RO: Richard Arlen Overton.

MZ: And what year were you born in?

RO: Nineteen-oh-six, May the 11th.

MZ: Where were you born?

RO: In St. Mary's Colony. That's down here between Larcourte

and Bastrop.

MZ: Okay. Would you have a -- I'm sure you had brothers and

sisters, right?

RO: I did, but I don't have any one now. All of 'em dead.

Mother, father, and all.

MZ: How many brothers did you have?

RO: Four brothers, with myself, and six sisters.

MZ: Wow.

RO: Ten children in all.

MZ: Where were you in that? Were you in the middle, were you

the oldest, the youngest?

RO: I was the -- about the fourth. I was about the fourth one.

MZ: What did your father do for a living?

RO: Well, we lived in the country. We picked cotton, chopped

cotton, shuck hay, pull corn. All ton of country work

there out in the country.

MZ: And I -- I'm just guessing, your mother was the -- was a

homemaker?

RO: Yes, she was a homemaker. She didn't work too much. She'd

take care of the kids.

MZ: And I'm just curious, but as you all got older, did you

also work to contribute to the family?

RO: I didn't understand you.

MZ: When -- as the kids, as your brothers and sisters -- as --

and you got older, did you all contribute to working for

the family?

RO: Yeah.

MZ: Can you tell me a little bit about your schooling?

RO: Schooling? I went to school in the country. I didn't go

to no college. I went 'til 11th grade, and that's far as I

got. I had to quit and take care of my family, take care

of my mother.

MZ: To take care of her? Did she get sick?

RO: No, I just take care of the family.

MZ: Oh, okay.

RO: And my father died, and so I just remembered one year, he

died (inaudible) I had to stop -- had to take care of the

kids, 'cause the older boy, the older sister was

(inaudible) than I was, they was working, you know, they'd

come to town. And the oldest brother, he married and left.

Oldest sister married and she left. And so -- and left me

there with the family, and I'd take care of the family.

MZ: So, did -- what school were you at when you were in the

11th grade?

RO: Pleasant Valley.

MZ: Pleasant Valley?

RO: Yeah, Pleasant Valley. That's the -- out there between

Creedmoor and Lockhart.

MZ: Okay. So, you were born in 1926.

RO: Nineteen-oh-six.

MZ: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, that's right --

RO: Yeah.

MZ: -- 1906. What's it like before the Depression?

RO: Hmm?

MZ: What's it like before the Depression hit?

RO: Depression?

MZ: Well, before the Depression, what was it like?

RO: Well, it wasn't so bad with us. But I did start -- when I

started to work, I working for 50 cents a day. (laughs)

MZ: Wow.

RO: And worked a long time that way, until it went up to, I

believe, about -- dollar a day or something like that.

MZ: And you worked, like you said before, picking cotton --

RO: Oh, yeah.

MZ: -- and other things?

RO: Picked cotton, chopped cotton, build -- helped the white

folks out to build houses, and I worked on cars. I used to

be a good mechanic. I work on cars --

MZ: Wow. So, you did a little bit of everything, then.

RO: Yeah, and I had me -- I had some cattle. I didn't have no

cattle, but it -- the -- on the -- they had big dairies out

there, too. And whenever the calf have a -- whenever a cow

have a little calf, they couldn't keep the calf. They'd

give 'em to me. I was a good fellah in the country with

the white folks and the people, and they'd give me the

calf. They wouldn't sell me the calf. They'd give me the

calf, and I'd keep the calf up until he get big enough to

sell, and I'd sell him.

MZ: What could you get for it?

RO: We get 25 and $30. That wasn't no money, I was living off

of $30, $20 a month. You can -- everything's very cheap

there. Soda water was a nickel, chewing gum was a nickel,

and gas was -- I think it was around 15 cents. Yeah.

Yeah.

MZ: Well, that's different from today, huh? (laughs) When the

Depression does come around, how does that hit your family?

RO: When the Depression comes? Well, it wasn't -- it come

round in '25 -- 'cause '25, we didn't have a drop of rain.

That whole year, we didn't have any rain at all. But we

did have a well right down below where I live in the -- had

a home in the country there, and had a well, then. So,

that well saved us a little water. But we didn't have a

rain -- no rain whatsoever, but we had a lot of storms.

This time of year, that's when -- the cloud looks funny

now. They change from time -- these clouds -- changes --

back before wintertime come, they -- it's a -- look like a

bigger cloud. And then -- but right along until this time

of year, they gets more storms in East Texas, and high

water. But here in Austin, here in this area, we didn't

get much rain and much high water until that water quit

raining down yonder, and now it's going to start to -- the

weather change up here. The cloud get difficult -- which -

- people say the other day, "Don't that cloud look funny?"

But I try to tell them that, but they don't ever pay me no

attention. It's different in the clouds. (laughs) The

cloud makes a bigger difference. It's a bigger cloud,

darker cloud down here next month from now, this time of

year, then the cloud is more of a -- now, it's a pretty

slick cloud and it looks like it's higher.

MZ: So, sounds like you know your clouds.

RO: Uh-huh.

MZ: It sounds like you know your clouds.

RO: Yeah.

MZ: Does the -- how -- but the Depression, how -- did it hit

your family pretty hard or did you not even (inaudible).

RO: Well, it --

MZ: -- no matter what?

RO: No, it hit some people pretty hard, and it hit lots of 'em

-- hit 'em pretty hard, because they didn't have no way to

-- there wasn't nothing to do. Well, they couldn't plant

no cotton. It wouldn't grow. And you couldn't plant no

(inaudible) food, and -- they used to plant corn and go out

and take the corn when it get hard -- they take it and

(inaudible) shell it and grind it (inaudible) to the

grinder, and they would make meal out of it. That's where

they'd get the cornbread. But flour, you get a little sack

of flour for a dollar and a quarter. But it was a big 24-

pound sack of flour.

MZ: (laughs) That's incredible.

RO: Yeah. And then, we had -- well, always -- we always had

chickens, turkeys -- see, I was out there raising that.

That's what I used to do: raise chicken, turkeys, and had

some birddogs. I would get a hundred dollars a birddog. I

always worked. I always tried to know how to live.

(laughs) I know it -- I didn't have no trouble. And that

car sitting yonder, that's the first car I bought.

MZ: The one on the TV set?

RO: Yeah, $2,400, but --

MZ: What kind of car is that one?

RO: Mercury.

MZ: What year?

RO: Nineteen seven -- nineteen twenty-five, I believe. So,

back in '24. I bought that in, yeah, in '24. I paid

$2,400 for it, 'cause I had another car -- I had another --

no, that wasn't the first car. I had another old car I

traded in on that car. Cars was cheap then. They're like

gas. Gas was 15 cents and a dime, some gallon -- some

different gas.

MZ: So, it sounds like your family at least had enough to eat

during the Depression.

RO: Oh, yeah. Yeah, during Depression, yeah, we had hogs, we

(inaudible) hogs. And we'd kill a hog every year. We had

chickens, and we were -- we had a kind of a nice place out

there, and we would raise our own stuff. And one time, we

was at church one Sunday, and four boys was talking. And

they say to her, "I wish I had a way to get to West Texas.

I would -- I had a way to get to West Texas, I could make a

living." I say, "What happened?" He said, "The cotton out

there is $100" -- dollar a hundred, I mean to say. That's

what -- dollar a hundred. Didn't have no way to go. And

so, anyway, I -- when I'd come home that evening, I told --

I was talking to my mother, and I ask her -- I say, "You

think I ought to tell those boys -- you know, they asked

me, would I come to East Texas -- Big Spring, Lamesa,

Odessa, those places out there in West Texas?" And she

told me, yeah, I could go if I -- well, you know, I'd be a

good boy, everything. I kept those boys out there, I kept

four of them out there, and they picked cotton. I didn't

pick at that time, 'cause I didn't have to pick. I had

money at home. Mama and them were still (inaudible)

chickens and turkeys and things like that. And so, I just

-- I stayed on at -- in the building and cooked for the

boys. And when the cotton went up to 100 and quarter,

well, then I quit cooking and -- I kept on the cooking, but

I went to field, then, and picked -- made me some money.

And so, I could pick 100 a pound in one site, and then

another (inaudible).

F: Keep talking. Keep talking.

RO: And so, now --

F: Sign it.

RO: Want me to write my --

MZ: That’s okay. Well, what's the --

F: Sign your name.

RO: (inaudible)

MZ: What's he -- requesting a picture or something?

F: Yeah, autographs for him.

MZ: Wow, really?

F: Yes. So, just write your name right here. Sign your name

on these pictures.

RO: (inaudible)

F: (inaudible) I'm sorry 'bout this.

MZ: No, that’s a --

RO: Right across here?

F: Mm-hmm.

MZ: That's a thing --

F: Yeah.

MZ: -- I should mention, Mr. Overton is, on this date,

considered the oldest living veteran of World War II at 107

years old. Can you tell me -- I was a little confused on

this -- on which order I should ask this question, but were

-- did you go into the service first or did Pearl Harbor

happen first?

RO: Pearl Harbor happened first.

MZ: Do you remember what you were doing or where you were when

you heard about -- that the Japanese had attacked?

RO: Well, the way it started, I was -- see, they had the Army

down here in Bastrop. That's where the soldiers were.

They had tents, really, down there. But they soon tore 'em

up, later on, after -- got to move for the -- Camp Mabry.

But anyway, the boy asked me one day, he say, "Why you

ain't in the Army?" I say, "Well, they haven't ever called

me yet. See, I got a family to take care of." They

wouldn't take you unless you be the last people. And so,

when I got back from Bastrop, the next morning -- next

Monday, I had a letter from the state -- from the Army.

And I went and signed up, and wasn't the next week or so,

they called me in, and then I went -- when I first went in,

I went to San Antonio. And we went to San Antonio. I

stayed there about a month, and they examined me and

everything. And they had to operate on me. I had a -- all

this web is inside of my bladder. But it wasn't bothering

me, but it showed up in -- on the picture. And so, they

had to go in me and take another tube and go on top of that

tube and then light it and stick it in that tube and then

burn it, and burn all that -- is kind of like spiderwebs

inside of my bladder. And that messed up my leg. This

muscle here in this leg, in this muscle in here, and that

leg, on the same side, and go to my big toe. And now, they

got -- my big toe is going this-a-way.

MZ: Okay (inaudible).

RO: Yeah. Yeah, they were going -- they -- yeah, they -- ain't

got no feeling. They're numb. And so, I've been going to

the Vet. And so, they're working on it, but I have -- I

got to go back to 'em pretty soon. I haven't heard what's

going on. But they're working on something.

MZ: So, you get a letter, and you go in -- so, you were

drafted, I guess, right?

RO: It -- yeah, they drafted me in, yeah. Well, now, when

Pearl Harbor come, well, I was -- I had -- well, I went to

-- over here before I left. Well, when I went in the Army

here in Texas -- yeah, in Austin -- I had to go to East

Texas, I had to go to Riverside, I had to go to California.

I had to go to Dallas. I had to go all them places. They had to check us, see what we could -- our -- see, we checked the weather. He's checking the -- we was checking the weather. And so, when they kicked me in, why, what --

I believe Pearl Harbor -- yeah, Pearl Harbor had that explosion. And we always had a song -- December 7th, 1941,

Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and that's when hell begun.

That's the song we always sang. And so, we went on -- so -

- and they got me in. We got straight, and I went to -- we went to East Texas and went to the wrong camp, and they had to come back that day and go thumbing to Riverside,

California and catch the train there. We were there for one night, going into Hawaii. The next day, we got into

Hawaii, we look -- we were going over there -- they was out in the middle of the water -- see, they was already fighting, but they was out in the middle of the water, picking up those mines. But they wasn't picking 'em up.

They was -- on -- taking the explosion -- taking the cap off of 'em and letting the mines go. Too many of us out in the water. So, we got to Hawaii, we stayed there for about

-- I guess month or so, and that's the picture he's showing me now, that I was in that with the -- they let us go out one or -- one night or two a day, something -- and that's where we're taking those pictures, that's when we had on

our clothes. And from then on, we had to catch our ships

and leave Hawaii and take our destination. And the first

place we went -- I think it was Honolulu, I believe.

That's the first place you went. But the way -- what was

happening when we got to Hawaii, that's where the President

comes from. That's where he was born at, in Hawaii. And

we got to Hawaii, and -- why, that's when the planes had

bombed Hawaii. And the ships was all floating around on

the water sideway-- they're just floating -- they're

smoking. See, they were still smoking. And they -- it has

-- they just couldn't put 'em all out at that time. They

just burning up. And the ship they got now is -- call that

a monument ship, just sticking up out of the water. It's

too big. They couldn't get it up, and so the end of it's

in the water, and the top of it, most of it, half of it is

up above the water. And they're making some kind of

monument out of that. And that's when they call this place

down here a -- shit, dang, excuse me -- this place right

down here, they call it -- what they call -- yeah, I can't

-- Doris Miller. No, he was at -- Doris Miller. He's --

he knocked down one of the planes.

MZ: Oh, Doris Miller.

RO: Yeah, and they call that Doris Miller. And that's his --

they named it after that boy that got killed. He was a

cook, but he knocked down a plane, and (inaudible)

pineapples and (inaudible) right (inaudible) these

pineapples. I never seen so many pineapples. Wide field,

wide -- look like 50-mile-wide, pineapples, pineapples,

pineapple. So, anyway, we left there, and going to

destinations. We're going from island to island, Palau

island, Angaur, and all them other island-- I can't

remember the name -- all them islands where we went. But

we went to four or five different islands. They were

small. See, we -- you had to -- we'd had to get on the

ship and go from island to island. But we never did get

hit. But we always got shot at, though. And so, one

particular day, we woke up one morning, we was floating

around in the water and we couldn’t see no ships. See, we

had a bunch of ships going to our destination. Made like a

-- you know, made, like, a ship -- and the other ships was

in that, but the little ships was on our side, escorting,

keeping the mines from coming into the big ship.

MZ: Right.

RO: And we had a bunch of ships. So, I think it's four or five

of them. Some of them boys are going to a different

island. We was going to a different island. We didn’t all

go to the same island. We -- get all our men killed the

same time. And so, we -- they -- this ship -- when we get

-- when we got to the island where this ship is -- go, it'd take off and go to that island and do his damage. And then, we'd go further on to another island. We get there and we do our damage. And we get that one done, why, if we get it done, we'd -- if we didn't, we had to stay there until we got it down, right, and each other. And so, then we would go for -- different places. And in so many islands, there -- one island we went to that I was -- they called us to -- after we got over there, we couldn't -- we didn't have no foxholes. So, we had to get in the foxholes with the Seabees. They was the head shooters in front of us. They'd go out and clear the people, get -- try to kill all the folks where we -- so we could go in there and get -

- to take that island. And so, the way they would do it, they would take a -- well, anyway, I go back to where we got lost in that ship one night. And we woke up the next morning, we was floating around in the water, and we didn't know what happened. And so, we was lost. This here commander, say he got drink-- been drinking and got the -- went the wrong way, that -- the little escort ships kept blinking -- the one for -- taking care of the big ships, they kept a-blinking for him to get back in line. But he kept floating and floating and floating and floating out until he -- the little ships wouldn't take care of that

one, thought if you want to go out there and act a fool,

you go. And so, he had to come back in and protect his

seat.

MZ: Right.

RO: One ship here and one yonder and one yonder, one on this

side, the same way. Made, like, a ship -- and so, if they

go out there and find the ship, they go out -- they would

go out there and find bombs in the water, and they -- the

little escort ships could find them. And they'd go out and

get over that ship, over that bomb and drop a bomb. And

the first bomb go down there and explode. According to how

deep the ship was, why, the bomb -- the water didn't boil.

Well, they had to drop the second bomb. When the second

bomb dropped, if the water boil, why, they got that ship

down below -- the one --

MZ: Oh, you mean the submarine --

RO: -- the one below another. Sometime, they -- that water's

so deep -- and a ship can go a way -- that are -- oh, that,

I guess -- what you call that thing? Otherwise, just go

further down -- it can go further down to the water. So,

they got bigger bombs. If you did -- if the water didn't

boil, why, that bomb -- he didn't get it.

MZ: Right.

RO: They have to drop another, and let it go down there -- when

that water boil, well, that's it. Well, they would take

off -- they didn't come back to the group where they was,

and keep us going. But that particular time, you know,

after he got lost, why, they come back -- that -- we --

well, that morning, we were floating around the water and

so on. We asked him what happened, we would holler, "What

happened?" And they -- of course, he wouldn't tell us, but

we know what happened, where he just got lost, couldn’t see

the other ships. They had gone all the way, and it -- and

so, we was -- we were just lucky that the Japs didn't know

that was -- didn't know we was lost. See, if they know we

was lost, they would have got that ship. But they didn't

know we was lost, they -- it was in the water at this --

but they was picking up the mines and things. And so,

directly, here come a great big ship. Was loaded with

bombs, but is -- I -- big American ship coming in toward

our ship, and got about -- you know, I guess about -- oh, I

guess about a mile. It wouldn't get close, 'cause he

didn't know what -- he didn't -- they didn't know whether

it was American ships in there or, you know --

MZ: Right.

RO: -- whatcha call ship. So, it blink one time, and he'd ask

for a blink. And our man would blink one time. But then,

17 he would blink the second time, but he would still be coming to you, and -- but if it get to the third blink, he blink and our ship wouldn't blink. And so, we kept hollering, say -- that morning, we say, "Blink! Blink!

Blink!" We -- he never would holler. Well, that big ship turn around, went back. Made another circle. He said, "I ain't taking no chance. They didn't blink, see, I don't know who you are." And so -- but it was American ship.

But anyway, that big ship turned and went back, and got the same route it had before. Come right down on that ship.

Blink, one time, and we'll holler, "Blink! Blink!" Well, we all got up on top of the ship. That was daylight. And so, we got up on top of ship and holler, "Blink it, blink it!" And so, the second time, on the -- that big

(inaudible) blink, well, our ship would blink. But he asking for the third blink. So, this big ship -- see, it asked for the third blink the first time. We didn't get it. He got two blinks. He turned and went back. He take a chance -- he said, "May not be -- and may be American ship." But then, when he went back and started -- when he got this two blink, he blinked a third blink, and that's when our men give the third blink. Well, then he come right on down to the ship, right on down to our ship, and he circled -- just circled the ship. Just went around and

18 around, that big ship. Great big ship, loaded with bombs.

But it -- he found out that it -- American ship. And then it went back -- it floated and floated around, just -- it called in three -- it called -- I think it called in three or six. It -- no, it called in three bombers, and they came. And when they came, then that big ship left and went to his donation, what he was going to do. He went somewhere else. But he left them little ships. They kept flying over us. They had little small bombs on 'em, but they kept circling, circling, and circling until they got lowered gas. Then three more (inaudible) ships would come in, and they would take over, and they would do it 'til we were talking a whole day before we could catch them other ships. That's why -- so we could just -- before we catch our crew. And so, finally, we got -- when finally -- with rest of 'em, they come in there and got our crew, well, and made all the ships -- could be back together again. But some of us would -- we was up there -- or some -- in the daytime, see, we didn't get them ships sometime in the day.

Takes you a night -- whole day to take a -- get to one of them ships, 'til (inaudible) and we wasn't -- they wasn't close (inaudible) but you just -- it's just one thing that happened for another. And so, we made it. But we could see the other islands -- we couldn't tell what's going on.

We could see the blaze. They was fighting, that island.

See, that -- other ships had -- went to their place or their destination. And then, we had to go to another destination, and some of the ships went to another destination, 'cause there's so many islands over there.

Yeah, you don't know how many island-- you don't know

(inaudible) islands or not, but it's a lot of islands over there. And they're full of -- Japan. And they were -- and

-- but we went up to one island, and I -- we had to take off all our bags -- we had our bags and (inaudible) we had

100 [garappa?], weighed right at 90 pounds, and the bag had a -- all our clothes and every -- each soldier had his clothes, 'cause he didn't know whether -- we had got -- you couldn't carry no extra clothes (inaudible) you had to carry your own clothes, but -- so, we got to this island, yeah, and -- but the Seabees had taken -- had been fighting. They had -- I guess they'd had (inaudible) and then we went -- that ship come in, we got off the big ship, on the flagship, and it was surrounded with steel. But the front part of it was the gate. When you get to -- island, you get to land, that -- the gate would let down like that.

Well, if any of them Japs was left in that -- if they missed any of those Japs in that area, well, they got to shoot in that area, see? In a gap, and that's why -- and

they were shooting at tank, and them bullets go around --

it's that big old ship. It is big old ship. Had to go

around -- we had a lot of stuff -- food -- and stuff on

(inaudible) Seabees. But we still had to fight. And so,

it would -- we -- and when daylight come (inaudible) some

over here and some over here. And then, they had to get

some -- the -- man, you could -- we couldn't catch 'em,

'cause they might've had a -- you know, a bomb on the -- so

they had -- just our men had to go in there and search

those dead people for -- they could move 'em, so they could

(inaudible) so they'd know, yeah, 'cause they'd be --

MZ: 'Cause they could be boobytrapped?

RO: -- they could -- oh, you go, and they have a pencil, you

put a pencil -- they might've killed eight men, right side

of you. And so, that's the way it happened. And so, they

would do that, and after it got a day and a half -- and

then, when daylight come, we had to -- if we were going to

stay on that island, we had to get up all them dead people

right quick, because flies bigger than your thumb -- he's a

big ol' black -- bumblebee? You see, that's what -- that's

how big a fly was over there. Great -- big as your thumb.

And you had the -- you couldn't -- we didn't have time to

bury 'em or nothing like that. Put 'em in a truck and

carry 'em back to the -- whatchacall and dump 'em in the

ocean, let the fish eat 'em up. And take clothes and all.

They wouldn't try to undress 'em. No, they just looked --

take 'em, put 'em in that -- like with cordwood -- and go

back and take the truck and just dump 'em in the -- 'til we

get that island clear, then we get that island clear, well,

we leave a safety bunch there on that island so nobody can

charge up and come get back on it. And then, that -- we'd

have to go to another island.

MZ: Just to --

RO: Yeah.

MZ: -- go back a little bit, what is your job at this point? I

mean, I've read a little bit about it, but I'd like to hear

it from you.

RO: What, my job?

MZ: Yeah, you were with the -- were you always with the 1887th

or 11-- I'm sorry, that's 1887 Aviation Battalion, right?

RO: Huh?

MZ: You were with the 1887 Aviation Battalion?

RO: I'll be darned if I know. They had us -- base security.

That's what they first had us for. We was -- were supposed

to take care of that airfield.

MZ: Okay.

RO: But, see, we didn't get a -- airfield there (inaudible) you

could not use no airplanes there, 'cause there wasn't no

22 room for no airplanes to fly and light. The only way to get an airplane in there is get one of them little old fighters, but they couldn't -- can't make any bombs. And so, just had to keep the big planes and fly them over and drop 'em like that. But it's just -- I don't know, they would be -- them Japanese (inaudible) they'd be on logs in the water. They'd take a big log and get in the water, they'd get on side of it and float on that log. (laughs)

They were slick. You'd watch, they'd come right up there to the bank with you with a bomb. If you didn't know it, just they -- there's so many. And when (inaudible) and when our war was over, why, I was (inaudible) Japan about -

- oh, I guess was about 100 miles out of Japan at that time, when the war was over, 'cause they -- we ain't -- we had so many soldiers that we couldn't get 'em back to the tent. We would build Quonset huts, and they have top --

Quonset hut and concrete bottom, we'd build that for some of the soldiers to stay in, if they could stay -- if they could -- they're going to be there long enough, 'cause if we take it, then we'd keep it. They wouldn't let it -- we never would let 'em take it back. So, that -- when that -- day the war was over, we seen a lot of fallout coming in the air, about as wide as your two fingers. Just stick, you know, flying like birds, just -- the wind was high,

just flowing -- and that mean war was over. How did they -

- got in there -- our planes couldn't go in there without

the sound, but you'd be surprised -- you can put a piece of

foil in your pocket now and get on a bus, but people don't

know it. And you can -- mind you, get on that bus with a

material. You can wrap a knife or material up in that foil

and nothing going to go through that foil. But people

don’t know that. We don’t tell 'em that and they haven't

learned it yet. It would protect -- take a gun and wrap it

up in foil. But that's been -- then the planes went over,

they got a chance to get into Japan, and that's got a place

-- that's the way they take 'em to Japan. They had a sound

over there they call Tokyo Rose. I bet you wasn't old

enough to hear that.

MZ: No, but I've heard of her name.

RO: Tokyo Rose. Tokyo Rose. Tokyo -- what they call her. We

never know what that -- we -- but there was some kind of

word they had. But that was machine -- it wasn't a person.

There's a machine they had over there, they tell me. Tokyo

Rose. But all our plane got in there, and afterward it

taking her -- taking Japan. And then, after Japan, why, we

just laid stuff down. We had it, and come on back to the

camp, 'cause war was over. We -- they didn't let us do

another lick.

MZ: But on all these smaller islands, you would help build

airfields, I understand?

RO: Huh?

MZ: You would help to build airfields on these smaller islands?

RO: We wanted to, but we -- you didn't have to -- at -- that's

-- we'd build some -- pretty close where we could -- we had

time to do it. But we'd -- we couldn't, 'cause -- you

know, we didn't have time to build 'em. And so, way we'd

do it, it would take the planes. You could go -- like this

-- trees out there? They didn't get no big trees. They

got smaller trees (inaudible) but they got so many. And

they were just thick, and you wouldn't let your soldier go

in that bush. You couldn't let him. You had to let your

ship set out there a minute and bomb that place a little

bit. And if the bomb didn't get it bad enough, you had to

get three planes. They just (inaudible) and that -- go

(inaudible) automatic. Shoot all the way through, and next

three come right back behind him, shoot all the way

through. Next three, these other come back around and go

back and shoot all the way through. And next thing you

know, that place'd be clean as floor. Them bullets was

that close. (laughs) And that's the way they would clean

the island. And so, we'd go in there with them trees, and

they were -- we wouldn't have no men, they'd bomb

(inaudible) 30 minutes, 'cause they were laying this -- you

was killing Japs, the thing was just full. And a lot of

them lived on those islands. Yeah.

MZ: Do you remember the name of the ship that you were on?

RO: Oh, God, no. I could never name that -- I could -- I mean,

there's a lot of stuff I've forgotten and I wouldn't intend

to talk about no more -- everything -- (laughs) and all of

my clothes and everything I had, my -- they've taken every

-- and my -- well, I did have my neck -- whatchacallit?

MZ: Necktie?

RO: No, the tag, next to that -- we had tag--

MZ: Oh, so the dog tags?

RO: Yeah, dog tag. Yeah, they want it there, and then I got

different -- to Dallas. But see (inaudible) was so long

(inaudible) see, all the -- there's a -- on our -- all our

papers got burned up in Waco. See, we -- lot -- lot of

that -- lot of our papers got burned up in Waco, and they

couldn't find -- they wait a long time before they could

find out that they operated on me. They lied and kept

saying they didn't bother me, didn't operate on me. But

finally, one fellow found it. Found it on the internet.

He found it where I operate-- they operated on my feet.

And so, then they start to working on my feet. But they

didn’t -- they would've done nothing 'til they found this,

because they thought I got -- so, my papers got burned in

Waco.

MZ: So, they're --

RO: And so much went on, and I could tell you, and -- more had

come, more (inaudible) and so, I don't know, just one of

those things. But anyway, we were lucky. Some of it was

lucky and some of it wasn't. There was a lot of time

(inaudible) and you look over there, why you won't see him

no more. He's just laying there. That bullet got that

close to people. And I got in a hole one day with a

Seabee, and our -- but it hit that rock. He had a rock in

front of -- and it bounced. The bullet bounced up and it

fell, and fell and now hit me on the leg, and I grabbed it.

When I grabbed that hot bullet, that shell that come out of

there, that babe was hot. I came -- like to burn my hand.

I throwed it out -- I throw it out and now it's gone. And

(inaudible) go down that hall, lucky (inaudible) and so,

when we got a chance to -- I was -- we was talking about

it, after we got a chance to get -- to settle down, and the

commander tell us -- "Don't never put a rock" -- say,

"Always put a pile of dirt." See, we carry shovel all the

time, little old shovel about that wide, and (inaudible) we

carry the shovel in our bag, though if you had to go to a

restroom or something, you had to dig a hole and cover it

up, 'cause you couldn't leave nothing out. Slide or --

first thing you know, they'd be sick, and all the boys be

sick and couldn't shoot. You had to -- every time you do

that, you have to take a little -- dig a hole and cover it

up. And water canteen, sometimes they give you a canteen

of water (inaudible) do that water now for four and five

days. But I need to drink it, and I do not because that --

you have to have the -- just wet your tongue and don't

swallow it. No, just wet your tongue, that's all you're

doing. Candy -- you wouldn't get to eat sometimes for two

or three days. Of course, they give you a stick of candy

about that long. It had all kind of food in it. You could

not eat that stick of candy by itself. You could eat only

two or three times before you -- it'd fill you up.

MZ: Stick of candy?

RO: The stick of candy will fill you up. Yes, that -- all kind

of desserts that everyone had. And they had -- they used

to have some here, but they -- and lot of people got some

of that candy, but reckon they quit fooling with it.

MZ: What kind of training did you receive before you left the

States?

RO: Hmm?

MZ: What kind of training did you receive before you left the

States?

RO: I was a sharpshooter. I was a shooter. I could go out and

see 12 birds flying, I come out here and get half of 'em

before they get out of our -- out of my shooting range. I

had a pump in there, I got it -- one there now made out of

iron. It's real iron gun. It's not -- none of these

plastic -- and so, that's where I -- used to shoot. I used

to go out -- I used to handle birddogs (inaudible) I sold

some of them for $100 a dog. And so, that's really

(inaudible) you let me shoot, I can take a pistol now --

why, otherwise -- they used to give us a -- first get you a

little rifle and start you off with a little rifle, and

then they turn you over -- and turn you -- and then you do

a rifle (inaudible) turn you on a tommy-gun, on a M1 rifle.

And they build a big bank out, like that wall there, white.

They take a bulldozer and cut so much down, dirt, and that

whole wall'd be white dirt. That’s when they learn you how

to shoot. And you would -- they put a black card in that -

- right in that war there, and put you about from here to

the captain. Now, that M1'd hold up straight until it got

to the captain (inaudible) drop a mile, and it -- an M1'd

go a mile before it drop. And then it start dropping.

MZ: Right.

RO: But anyway, that's what we -- that's what they would have

at -- that's (inaudible) learn you how to shoot. And so,

29 some of the boys get out there and didn't know how to shoot. They have to learn or -- there were some, just dumb, didn't know anything about a gun. But I knowed all about a gun when I went in there. And so, I kept a -- they try me out -- several of us (inaudible) boys, too, was a good shooter, but wasn't -- he's not good as I was. The way you take a gun, you -- they give you a big strap and put on your arm and run it back to your shoulder, and you lay down on your elbow and lay (inaudible) back this way.

And every time you pull that bullet, well, that gun gonna jump. When it jump, well, a man don't understand he gonna move it over. Well, he gonna get too far from his target.

But every time that gun let -- every time that gun shoot, that belt gonna get tighter and tighter, and you will never lose that spot you're shooting at. I could shoot sometimes

-- I may miss the first two or three, but next 10 to 15 times, I could hit that spot. That's why they kept me for a shooter. See, I got sick in the Army, have to operate on me again before I left. I went over there, they had to take all the blood out of me and put that white stuff in me to find -- just trying to find -- I don't know what they're trying to find, but I don't guess they find it. But you -- they didn't care. They kept me, and I had to go there and

-- to drive the officers. I was scared to drive the

officers, 'cause that's the man they were looking for, the

commanders.

MZ: Oh, okay. Yeah, I read something or [Alan?] had mentioned

RO: Yeah.

MZ: -- that you used to --

RO: Yeah.

MZ: -- would drive some of the officers. So, then, you helped

build Quonset huts, you helped lay down -- or helped with

the construction of the airfields, you drove officers --

what other duties did you have?

RO: It's -- and what?

MZ: What other duties did you have?

RO: No, I -- well, I had to drive -- sometime, they'd have me

drive the big truck (inaudible) soldiers to a different

place, and I really got a chance to drive a truck. See, we

had cars, too. On the ship, we -- our ship would carry

car-- one day, I would drive the jeep, and the -- I had to

go down there to put some gas in it. I put the wrong gas

in the jeep. See, I put -- (laughs) they didn't tell me

exactly what thing it -- what tank to get it out of, 'cause

we getting close to the island, and we got (inaudible)

jeep, just -- it was just -- I don't know, about to gas up

-- burned the jeep up. It's too soon -- what kind of gas

31 they had in them jeeps, I don't know, but that’s what -- it was strong stuff. And I'd hate to be around the officers,

'cause we'd -- went off once when -- one day, war was

(inaudible) oh, it was always fuss, but we had a -- kind of

-- resting, time to rest. And one -- the -- one lieutenants I driving -- so, he said, "Let's go riding,

Richard." I say, "I want to play ball." They was playing ball that day. And I say, "I want to" -- I say, "I want to play ball." He say, "No, I want -- let's go riding." I say, "Okay." I went to -- down (inaudible) got the jeep, brought it up there, and I put gas and everything and got the jeep, and we taking off. We went around and we rode around, rode -- got way up in the hills, and little thickets is up there. And so, we just -- yeah, the -- we had the (inaudible) we had -- started taking that place all up in there. And so, we -- driving up in there, so, we got up on a little knoll up there, and so we see somebody's head sticking up. He's -- "Lookee at -- Rich, there, what's that?" I say, "That's a man's head." And he says,

"Stop, stop, stop." So, we stopped and that man crawled on up to us. Said -- lieutenant -- say, "Where y'all going?"

And lieutenant laugh, say, "We just riding around." He said, "Riding around? Hell," he say, "don't you know you're on the front line?" And, you know, they had to put

two soldiers on our jeep to get us out of there. He said,

"Hell, they're all reading letters out there now." Says,

"They have been fighting all the morning." And say, "Now,

they're reading the mail." See, they'd let you -- if you -

- they -- it was very nice, and they're trying to bring the

mail to you, 'cause sometimes you wouldn't get back to your

company, shit, for two or three days. You'd be out there

and you wouldn't get nothing to eat, either. It wasn't --

(laughs) but I didn't lose no weight. I just -- but I'd

never got get large, now. I just stayed a little large, I

-- (laughs)

MZ: It sounds to me like you had an opportunity to actually

shoot at the Japanese, is that right?

RO: Hmm?

MZ: It sounds to me like you had the -- an -- like, you have

opportunities to shoot at the Japanese, is that correct?

RO: Had the opportunity to shoot at 'em? You better shoot at

'em!

MZ: Well, you yourself, right?

RO: Yeah, you better shoot 'em. They shoot at you. You could

-- man, he was going riding one day, up to some little

place up there where there's -- working. I bet you a

bullet didn't come no closer than you're in that chair.

Cut a limb over front of us. We was driving that little

old -- a narrow street. Yeah, they shoot -- they shooting

at you, you might -- and so, when I went overseas, they had

to give me a tommy-gun, put on the windshield. And you're

-- all you do -- when you see somebody coming, you just

grab -- tommy-gun, you shoot 'em. Don't care if they have

on your suit. If he don't give you a signal, why you shoot

him. He'll kill you. Yes. It was funny, several times we

got shot at and bullets come all over your head, on your --

but we got lucky. Lucky, lucky, lucky. (laughs) No, they

didn't carry you over there if they didn't use you. You

know, they had a lot of cooks and things there. I never

was a cook or nothing like that. But when I went over --

when we started overseas, that's what I learned, back over

here, how to shoot good. And then it -- put me with the

officers. No, on the ship -- and they -- put with the

officers, and they had these little milk cans. Well, each

soldier had a little milk can. Well, every evening, they

would -- on that ship, before we got to our destination,

they'd get a stack of milk cans and put me out there on the

edge of the boat and throw a can up and I'd be shooting at

those cans, shoot --

MZ: Kind of like practice?

RO: Yeah, keep me in practice 'til I got overseas, 'til I got -

- the destination. Sure did. And I hit them can-- hit one

-- you ever hit one, you get it -- just keep knocking it

up. (laughs) It'd go up so high and -- well, you

(inaudible) stay up there, you would -- soon as it started

to stopping, why, you'd hit it. But don't shoot it while

it -- going up. (laughs) You'll miss it. But, no, shoot

it while it coming down. Got to wait 'til it go up there,

and when it start back down, boom. That's the only way to

get it. (laughs)

MZ: I'll remember that. I've never tried to shoot cans like

that before, but --

RO: You never --

MZ: -- I'll --

RO: You never --

MZ: -- I'll remember that.

RO: You was in the Army, too?

MZ: Yeah, I was in the Army for three years.

RO: Three years. And where'd you go?

MZ: Boy, I was stationed at Fort Ord in California --

RO: Fort Hood?

MZ: Oh, no, Fort Ord.

RO: Fort -- oh, boy.

MZ: I went to parachute school at Fort Benning, and from there,

went to Fort Bragg. But I was just in for three years.

RO: And did you do the fighting?

MZ: No, no, there wasn't anything going on when I was --

RO: Well, you didn't see no -- you didn't see much in the Army.

(laughs)

MZ: No, not like you. (laughs) What about friends?

RO: Huh?

MZ: What can you tell me about friends --

RO: What?

F2: Sounds -- somebody at the door.

MZ: Okay. Oh, you know what? Let me just pause it.

RO: What about what?

F2: (inaudible)

(break in audio)

MZ: Well, I'll go ahead and turn it back on.

RO: Huh?

MZ: Oh, I'm just turning it back on. What -- do you remember

any friends that you had in your unit?

RO: Dead. Every one of them dead. Ain't none of 'em around

here. I had a bunch of 'em when I come out of the Army,

different ones. But that's the reason they ship people in

here, to get me, 'cause I'm the oldest vet in -- oldest vet

in the Army. Now, you believe that?

MZ: Yeah, I believe it.

RO: Believe that -- oldest vet in service. Walking and talking

and driving and ready to shoot again if they let me. I got

36 three guns in there. I keep every one of them loaded. And

I got to bed, I put one right down on the floor, right by my bed, on the floor, because people getting so darn mean around here, you got to have a gun. They getting crazy!

And they don't care. They come in here at night and just come in here and stole two of my weed-eaters. And come -- and like to come in here and try to get the damn sticker --

I forgot and left my car unlocked -- take a knife and try to get my sticker off my car. Take a knife and just cut it, cut it, cut it, couldn't -- see, the sticker sticks on there, and they -- I guess they got mad and said, "Hell, let it go." And they just left it there (inaudible) just tried their best to get it off. And I said (inaudible) if

I had woke up, they wouldn't got it off, they wouldn't've got out of here, because I was -- there's a gal go here now, she's a streetwalker, and she's -- claims she had her husband down here and got the kids down here. But she used to come by, and we'd be sitting on the porch. We'd give her some food and stuff, you know, and give her soda water and sit and talk to her. And so, this particular time -- and she'd go and come back, and the -- every day, she'd

(inaudible) other day, every time he come back from the war, he (inaudible) well, then she'd go up there, but she'd come back. If he didn't have any money, she'd come back

37 and lie and say he didn't give her some money. And we'd give her a dollar or two to go (inaudible) and get her some food with -- and so, this particular time, I was here by myself, just before dusk -- dark. She came by. "You want a bottle of soda water?" And so, I think I was sitting on the porch, and I come back here and we just -- I -- she --

I think she's sitting over there and I was sitting here.

But -- and that's the door she went out of. But I noticed her -- kept looking at this door, talking, looking at that door, drinking that soda water. But she didn't drink all the soda water. She's taking some of it with her. But she kept looking at that door. I think that was -- all right, what she wanted to do. And so, I didn't pay any attention.

So, reckoning this lady and another bunch came and they met her going down the driveway. I said, huh. And so, anyway,

I think it was the next night or something that that -- that she must have -- not that same night. No, it was the night they came in -- one night, they came in -- caught her coming up the drive-- but this particular time (inaudible)

I locked this iron door here, but I forgot and locked the -

- didn't lock the wooden door. See, when you go to -- with these iron rails on the house, iron bars, you have to put a key up in front or -- and then, one night, put a key here.

If you got another door, put a key over there. And so,

38 that's the way you do that. But that particular night, I was sleeping right there and had my pants in the bed right there. And I got up about four o'clock to go to the bathroom, I just -- or I come through this way or somewhere or another. But anyway, the door was kind of cracked. I look there and say I knew -- I say, I know I (inaudible) that door. And I come down (inaudible) the door, it wasn't even closed, 'cause it would make a noise if you shut it back. And so, I looked and I see (inaudible) door. And I looked at that darn iron door was cracked, 'cause she wouldn't slam it back, because it rang them keys -- it rang

-- had a little sound at night, like that (inaudible) I could hear that in the street. I can hear you slam your door out in the car -- street -- when you come up here and slam your door, I can be back -- I can hear you slamming, or I get up and go see if your car be out there. Well, that's the way it was. She was -- you couldn't -- she wouldn't -- couldn't close the door. And I got up

(inaudible) my bed -- my (inaudible) I think I had 100 -- right, 100 and some dollars in it and my cards, always right there on the couch. And I'll be darned if she didn't get all my money and (inaudible) change. She got all my change. (laughs) And I know that's -- the only one got it,

'cause she's the only one that know that I put that key in

that door that night.

MZ: Yeah.

RO: Yeah, 'cause I called the law and they asked me what did I

do -- you know, asked me about -- the question who come and

everything. I told her -- he said, "Well, they the one" --

but they look for her that night, they couldn't find her.

But then they laid for her, but I don't think -- but they -

- I don’t know whether they ever picked her up or not. But

I know one evening, he come -- and then, yeah, streets

(inaudible) and let her come by, but she got so she'd go

around the other way. She'd go around this way to the

store, or you'd go back around this way to the store. So,

anyway, they taking -- they put (inaudible) for seven

years. Seven months or seven years or something, and she -

- 'cause they -- if they take your cards and they keep 'em,

maybe be six or seven years (inaudible) and see, if they go

oversea, they'll use your card. And so, they -- yeah, they

put all that on that (inaudible) you know, whether I would

use 'em.

MZ: Right.

RO: But I knew they'd find out who done it. But one day, I was

coming up the street there from the store and she was come

-- from around the corner, around the other way. Store

down yonder -- but she were -- used to come this way. But

she go around the other way down to the store. Well, she

was coming up the store from that little hill, there. And

I happen to look this way -- the car -- and I look back

this way, that was her. When she see me, she dropped her

head, but she kept walking. And I come right on to

(inaudible) jumped out of the car and run and call the

police. And he came right on by here, and shouting at -- I

told him which way to go. He was gone over an hour, around

an hour, and he come back, say, "You know (inaudible) I

never could find her." (laughs) She got away that quick

when she --

MZ: Yeah.

RO: -- when I -- when she seen me coming out, she knew I was

going to call the police. She must have knew it, 'cause

she ran and got in one of them houses. He say she got in

one of them houses, but he didn't know which one. See,

she's (inaudible) that quick. Never did catch her. But

next two or three days, there she go again. But I don't

think they ever picked her up. They never did tell me.

But they may have, but they never would tell me.

MZ: Well, sometimes kind of hard to track people down.

RO: Yeah. Yeah, they -- yeah, he -- +they taking the

fingerprints and everything.

MZ: So, who would you say was your best friend when you were in

the Army?

RO: Hmm?

MZ: Who would you say your best friend was when you were in the

Army?

RO: Best friend? [Mont Will?], for one. And I had a special -

- special white friends, too. And Spanish -- all of them.

Oh, I had a bunch of 'em (inaudible) used to loan 'em money

when I was at work. They'd borrow money from -- definitely

a bunch of (inaudible) bunch. I used to work for them

bunches. That was the bunch I used to work for. I used to

loan those people money, and they'd pay me back five

dollars at a time. They would spend their money. I

wouldn't spend my money. I'd send mine home. (laughs) I

was slick. And, yeah, I'd -- picture in. Yeah, want --

yeah, another picture (inaudible) I -- that's all them

different pictures. Yeah, that's me. That's me -- I first

married. That's my first wife, and second wife up there,

way up yonder. But all them people, you know, and all them

people on that (inaudible) I've taken care of those people.

I worked at the counter, under five governors -- four

governors. They died, and I had to go to the Treasury

Department with Ann Richards there. You know her?

MZ: Mm-hmm.

RO: Well, used to be my good friend. Well, had to go -- I

would -- went to her, she was in -- she used to be the

governor, too. I was under her, and when she moved over to

the state -- when she got beat and went to the Treasury

Department, she still kept me. Yeah, she kept me. A guy

told her to keep me, 'cause I was a good guy. And so,

anyway, she kept -- and she kept me, and I wanted to do all

the running, chasing around town, and it -- 'cause

(inaudible) special letters every day to different places.

Different places. Sent a letter to the airport. One time,

was -- somebody called -- I was taking money to the bank,

'cause they didn't have no way to -- I had to walk. And

so, during Christmas, some guy called and asked the second-

in-command that work at (inaudible) Treasury Department who

carried the mail, who carried the money to the bank? And

he told 'em to wait a few minutes, "I'll let you know, soon

as I get a name." But he tried to get 'em online, see?

But he missed her. But anyway, that had -- they had to

make him get a -- a jeep then, got a little jeep for me to

go there. And I used to go in that jeep. And then, after

the jeep, I -- it got so (inaudible) to the airport. Well,

that was too far, then had to -- got a station wagon. I

got a station wagon, and then they got a -- police to go

with me then, after a man threatened -- they say he was

43 threatening to -- you know, threatened (inaudible) threatened the way -- who gets the checks. But anyway, well, I went to -- they got a van, and I started going with the van. But they had to put a -- put a police (inaudible) the police had to go. So, they give me a special letter, and they want the letter to -- wait for -- you know, they sent it today, they want it to go in that airplane now.

So, they were -- get me and the police and get there. I'd take 'em out there, we'd go -- he'd (inaudible) go out to the airport with me, that airport out there. Airplane'd be running. I'd call the airplane -- or already got the airplane, propeller be turning, and the door would be open, and he'd be standing in the door. Standing there waiting for me to drive up. Soon as I drive up in front and go and get out, the man, the policeman go out there. Why, the law

-- I could get about -- pull me up to -- the car

(inaudible) the police, he had stopped. And I go to the air -- go to the airplane, the propeller's turning. Wasn't no big plane. One of these small plane-- where you just get up and go by yourself, you know? They -- you know, there's nobody ride with him. He just go by himself all the time. But the -- and he was standing in the door -- time I get there and give him that letter. And he closed that door and get in that plane and start that motor, made

it go faster. I thought -- I'd be -- still be standing

there. And the police, he'll be standing back here,

waiting on me. He would let him come to the car, or -- to

the plane. And that plane'd go out there and get on the

runway. It'd go down yonder, get on the runway, get on the

runway -- when it come back -- and soon as it get off the

ground, then we go. Didn't want nobody to get that close

to that letter. But they trust me with it. And when I

retire, I went back four times. They call me back four

times to go back.

MZ: Now, I read you were a runner?

RO: Hmm?

MZ: You were a runner?

RO: A runner?

MZ: Is -- that's that the newspaper said, that you were a

runner for -- this is what your job was called. You were a

runner --

RO: Oh, that job -- yeah, that's what a -- job, when I got out

of the Army. See, I did work at the furniture store. I

bought all this furniture. All this furniture stuff, you

would give it to me in this house, 'cause I worked for the

furniture store.

MZ: Oh, Gage Furniture?

RO: Yeah.

MZ: Oh, okay.

RO: The -- yeah, Ga-- I made him rich. (laughter) I work --

him before he left here -- before I left here, 'cause he --

yeah, see, he died before I left, too. No, he didn't. No,

I come back. Yeah, but I come back. I say I ain't gonna

work no more for a long time. And I'll be damned, he had

me working the first week I was back. Yeah, I lived in an

old (inaudible) over on 13th Street then.

MZ: So, just right after you got back from the war, you --

RO: No, this house --

MZ: (inaudible) work --

RO: -- I built it in '45.

MZ: This house?

RO: Uh-huh.

MZ: Wow, so you've been here for more than 50 years.

RO: It didn't cost $4,000.

MZ: Really?

RO: Yeah, $4,000. I didn't have this den on it, and I didn't

have the bars on it. But when I -- after I build the

house, right there, why, it is 4,000 and -- back that away.

But all this wasn't on it. And so, everybody else got to

putting dens on, and putting -- and building the tables

with -- in the living room, together. Well, that's the way

I had mine done. I -- I -- this here cost me 4,000, to put

this den on, and cost me -- I had to call San Antonio and

get the bars. And the house has solid bars, all the way

around. And the piece right there cost me $60 a sheet,

right that side of the wall, and (inaudible) $60 a sheet.

Yeah, that's fur-- that's made out of furniture. Made out

of -- that wood, that's made out of -- that's mahogany.

MZ: Oh, it is?

RO: Yeah, made -- that's Philippine mahogany. You can take a

hammer and hit that, you can't knock a hole in it. But a

lot of people got the strip stuff, you know?

MZ: Right.

RO: And you take a hammer and hit it, it's bound to split.

Yeah (inaudible) but that stuff's -- yes, it -- this way,

thataway, this way, and (inaudible).

MZ: So, I'm curious. In all the island hopping that you did

during the war, did you make it to the Philippines?

RO: Hmm?

MZ: Did you go to the Philippines during the war?

RO: Philippines? And see -- where is the Philippines? No, I

left here, I went to -- where'd I go? I went to San

Antonio and left there and went to Hawaii.

MZ: Oh, no, I mean, after Hawaii. You mentioned --

RO: Oh, no, I never -- I -- no (inaudible) to Philippines.

After -- no, I got out -- after I got out of the war, I

didn't go no -- I didn't want no -- I didn't (inaudible)

plenty of time.

MZ: Oh, no, I meant during the war. Did -- I read something

about -- you had -- during the war, you had gone to

Okinawa? Is that right?

RO: Okinawa?

MZ: Yes.

RO: I went to Okinawa when I was fighting.

MZ: Right.

RO: Yeah.

MZ: What was that like? I mean, there was a lot of fighting

there for --

RO: You just lucky, 'cause the planes had to go in there and

shot a tree before you get in there. Now, they call -- the

lady tried to get me to go to Okinawa. She called from San

Antone -- Dallas. Said she had sent a man -- woman down --

man down here to get me -- take me to Dallas, and then --

take three days to go to -- [Ipijama?], what you call it?

MZ: Okinawa?

RO: Okinawa. Take me three days to get that -- go there. And

I told 'em, no, I didn't want to go back over there. And

they call that Black Island now. Black Island. Yeah,

Japanese just on it. I guess Japs may be on it now again.

MZ: Yeah, yeah.

RO: Yeah, yeah.

MZ: Still there.

RO: Yeah, they probably --

MZ: Did you ever go to Iwo Jima?

RO: Seemed like I did. Some of them names -- yeah, I went to

the -- yeah, I (inaudible) must have been, like five

islands I went to, from one place to the other. But at

that time, I could think of them. But now, I just forgot

them things.

MZ: You know, now I remember, I read something about -- that

your battalion had some kind of record for building an

airstrip --

RO: Hmm?

MZ: -- 27 days?

RO: Twenty-seven days?

MZ: Yeah, that your battalion had built the fastest built

airstrip, do you recall that?

RO: Yes, I do, now.

MZ: That your battalion held a record for building an airstrip.

RO: Airstrip?

MZ: Oh, the airstrip, where the -- or the airfield where the

planes would land. I read somewhere that your battalion

held some kind of record that you'd built it in 27 days?

Does that sound familiar?

RO: I can't remember that, but I was on the airfield lots. But

I can't remember what I was doing there. What'd they say I

was doing?

MZ: I'd read that building -- I forget what island it was on,

but that the battalion had built an airstrip or an airfield

in --

RO: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

MZ: -- 27 days and --

RO: Yeah, yeah.

MZ: -- and that was -- that it received, like, some kind of a -

RO: Yeah.

MZ: -- a special citation or commendation for doing that,

because that was supposed to be pretty fast.

RO: Yeah, we had to work on that -- we have to do some of the

airfield and get some planes here. Now, we got to a place

where we didn't have no plane-- why, we'd all be glad to

get in there with bulldozers and help get -- so the plane

get in there to take care of us. See, if you didn't get a

plane that would take care of you, why, you'd get bombed

every night. (laughter) So, everybody get out there and go

to work, with the gun on the hip, too.

MZ: Did you ever drive any of the bulldozers?

RO: Huh?

MZ: Did you drive any bulldozers?

RO: No, no, I drove trucks all the time. I drove them big

trucks. Yeah, I drove them big trucks and jeeps and

station wagons. Yeah, I used to be -- yeah, I was a good

driver. That's what I was doing here, driving trucks, too.

Yeah, there's my -- picture's up there now, and that's the

house I built when I come back, right back up there.

MZ: And that's this house?

RO: That's the house. That's this house.

MZ: Did you --

RO: Four thousand dollars.

MZ: Did you actually go to the island of Japan before you came

back to the States?

RO: Did I go to the --

MZ: Did you ever make it as far as Japan?

RO: No. When I got out of the Army, I come straight to San

Antone. No, no, come to San Antonio. No (inaudible)

Oklahoma, back at -- no, back in California -- and to come

from California to San Antonio. And they walk seven

(inaudible) they walk -- in World War I, too. I go back to

that. They had a bunch of soldiers walking for San

Antonio. Thousands and thousands of 'em. And I ask people

here now did they see those people? And, you see, nobody

here know those -- that -- seen those people walk through

San Antonio. And I asked them where'd they go? They went,

actually to the -- Camp Mabry. That's -- they built Camp

Mabry. And some of the people can't remember when they

built Camp -- I remember when they built Camp Mabry, but I

can't remember those soldiers. Well, that's when they

filled it up and when they built it. They walked from San

Antonio (inaudible) train was -- too many people for the

train, taking -- I think it take a day and a night to walk

from San Antonio.

MZ: From San Antonio to Camp Mabry?

RO: Was that -- yeah, and build the Camp Mabry. And they come

to Camp Mabry, been there ever since. But those soldiers,

talking about it a while ago, that's where (inaudible) at

Camp Mabry. Was coming here the other day, back from

(inaudible) some soldiers from other companies, other

states, sending them cigars into here, to -- shit, give 'em

to me. Here's the headquarters down here at Camp Mabry.

MZ: Earlier, when I asked you about -- if you had a best

friend, you mentioned somebody, but I didn't quite get the

name. It was -- you said Mud somebody?

RO: [Martin Wilford?].

MZ: Oh, Martin Wilford?

RO: Uh-huh. That's one of 'em.

MZ: What was he like?

RO: He didn't go in the Army.

MZ: Oh, okay.

RO: No, he didn't go in the Army. And are -- what is that --

your cousin name, mama? What -- the barber.

F2: What? What?

RO: The barber. One that cut hair. Who?

F2: His name [Stuart?]? Is it -- I say, is his name Stuart?

RO: What?

MZ: Stuart?

RO: Stuart?

MZ: Yeah, she wants -- she was asking if his name was --

F2: No, your cousin --

RO: White.

F2: Oh, his -- White?

RO: Yeah, like, he had a name -- what is -- he's a barber in

the Army. White. Yeah, he died, and he's the barber for

Martin Luther King. He been dead several year, and -- who

else died? Oh, (inaudible) died around here. Wasn't many

of 'em left here at that time, during the Army --

MZ: Who -- while you were serving in the Pacific, did you have

a good friend that you had while you were serving in the

Pacific during the war?

RO: Am I what?

MZ: Did you have a good friend or a best friend while you were

in the Army, serving in the Pacific?

RO: When I was in the Army, yeah, we had -- yeah, I had --

yeah, you -- yeah, all of us were friends. Yeah, every --

white and black. You better be friends. (laughs) You'd be

crazy about each other. Yeah, I used to get out of -- I

never will forget one day, everything was so clean. We had

shot and killed -- got them trees so clean, pretty. I told

my -- not to go walking. I walked all the way up that

highway, and -- but it's clean. No soldiers or nothing.

Everything was clean. And I think -- what the other bunch

was -- other bunch was doing something. They were playing.

I didn't want to do nothing that day but walk. I walked

all the way up there, and I remember I had on some jeans

and a darn hat put down on my head, and I could see the --

pretty day it was. I remember that day. I don't know why

I remember that day, but I remember that day -- and walked

back to the camp. But what I would do on the weekends -- a

lot of the boys would play ball and drink whiskey. You

could get so much whiskey every Wednesday. No, so much

beer every Wednesday. And then, Wednesday, I'd get beer at

the end of the month. I'd have enough money -- best sent

home. (laughs) I wouldn't drink none over there. I

wouldn't drink over there. And so, I would drink -- it's -

- I'd send it home. And I got rocks -- I sent some rocks

in -- down there, on the (inaudible) end of the room,

pretty rocks I sent over there because they come from

thousand, thousand miles over the water. I used to send

'em home. You -- they'd let you send 'em home after -- you

know, after (inaudible) different time, and -- but at times

-- sometimes, you'd -- had to get up and go back to

fighting (inaudible) other day, I rested (inaudible) should

you get in line, you'd better go. We just -- keep your gun

right by you. You got to go.

MZ: What else would you do in your spare time, when you weren't

working or driving?

RO: In the Army?

MZ: Yeah.

RO: Oh, you --

MZ: In the Pacific, what -- you mentioned --

RO: Oh, there always --

MZ: -- you guys would play ball.

RO: -- oh, you -- always done something. Oh, you -- no, we

wasn't playing ball too much. That's on a Sunday sometime,

when -- after taking the island we'd play like that. But,

no, we didn't get much playing. No, we had -- everything

was kind of quiet there, 'cause then was dangerous. No, we

went up there to -- I never will forget, we went up there

to (inaudible) were feeding some -- you know, way up there

where the -- where you park trucks. They got (inaudible)

shit, and all at once, man, bullets come flying in there.

(laughs) We had to keep an eye on them (inaudible) got them

iron wheels. You got behind them iron wheels, around them

trucks, on them trucks. Some of them had solid wheels, you

know? Well, that's where you get. Man, them bullets got

to flying, then, so you laid there about 10 minutes, they

quit and we got up, 'cause we know what happened. Well,

our men then got him. And whenever he quit shooting, you

would (inaudible) if they get to shooting over here, boom-

boom, you see tree, and that tree quit like that, you'd

walk out there. So, our men got him. He ain't shooting no

more. You don't -- no, he gone. No, there's lots you have

to think about when you go there. It was nice. After you

get in there and get things going your way, and -- but you

got to watch it. You got to -- you can't go in there and

just go to sleep.

MZ: Right.

RO: No, you got to stay awake, all the time (inaudible) I never

will forget when I was up here in Columbus, that big, tall

mountain there, and it's in North Texas, the tallest

mountain in history. I went -- yeah, I went up -- I --

when we come home, one day, that's -- I got -- Columbus

River runs through there. I don't know what you call that mountain. I did. I know what's called -- that mountain -- when they let us -- we went down one time, I come down -- we was training, and that's where we went over, and that river (inaudible) one day, and then (inaudible) logs and things -- was floating, and they sent me down inside that fence. I never will forget that, the camp's -- the boys are waiting on one side of the water. And he send me in that jeep down there. And that's the day they said they would trust me, 'cause that was a dangerous situation. I went and I made it. That's when they liked me, so --

'cause I was -- I know what to do. And so, I come back and we went -- one day, we went to the highest mountain in

Columbus. We -- I went up there, started up there, and the officer, you know, blowed the whistle for the -- all to come back. And he told, "Don't never go up on the mountain like that. Say you knock one of those rocks, and down -- it'd kill every soldier under them. Every rock that hit, it'd kill 'em. Them big ol' rocks (inaudible) bigger'n than these chairs, and all that stuff stickin' on the wall

-- all you do is just knockin' some dirt. You get one started, and 10 of 'em are bound to fall. Bloop-bloop- bloop-bloom-bloom, kill all your soldiers. And he told us he'd court martial -- he catch us back up there again. I

never will forget that. That's been a long, long time.

That's Columbus River.

MZ: Do you remember where you were or what you were doing when

you heard that they dropped the atomic bomb?

RO: When they dropped the bomb?

MZ: Yeah, when they dropped the atomic bomb, do you remember

where you were?

RO: Yeah, I wasn't close to -- no, I wasn't -- I did -- never

did get close to a bomb. You could hear 'em, but I never

get close to one.

MZ: Oh, no, I mean, when they -- when the announcement came

that the atomic bomb was dropped on Japan, do you remember

what you might have been doing?

RO: What I was doing when they take Japan?

MZ: Well, when you heard that they dropped the atomic bomb, do

you remember what you were doing?

RO: Oh, yeah, I was sitting there writing a letter that day. I

was sitting in a jeep, because the -- (laughs) I was

sitting in the jeep. That's when that -- and four of us

flying. So, yeah, I was sitting in the jeep, writing a

letter, and I never will forget that. And so, when it --

that -- the -- he was out there telling them something --

oh, they was building a Quonteen (sic) -- huts, you know,

how to build a tent on top and concrete at the bottom.

Well, that what they was building. They had time to build

something (inaudible) all the soldiers didn't have enough

room to stay, and so they building that so they could sleep

in there. And so, when that -- when they -- when that --

all that stuff about to (inaudible) one evening -- some,

like it is now -- and that stuff got to flying all over

that -- everybody stop, say, "What is that? What is that?"

And so, we asked the -- a different commander, "What" -- he

say, "I don't know." Say, "I got no answers." No answers,

no answer. And everybody stopped, and a (inaudible) come

over the -- that's when our -- like, the woman I told you

that had that funny name. Pokey (sic) Rose. It come over

and say every -- the war was over. And that's when we put

everything down and got in the jeep. They -- all the men

was out there working. They laid everything down, got on

the trucks and come back to the (inaudible) war was -- oh,

you done another lick. I didn't -- had another lick until

I got back here. It was -- it would take me about a -- I

guess about two or three weeks for -- to get everything

straight, to get me back here (inaudible) come back here,

put me on a little boat, take me -- I think take me two or

three days. Get back on this side of the river, coming to

California. That's where we come back, to California.

MZ: Do you remember who your commanding officer was?

RO: I -- this -- (laughs) I know how he look. But he's a good

-- he's kind of a -- he wasn't American, he was -- no, he

wasn't American and he wasn't African. I don't know what

he was. But he was a funny fellah. Yeah, he was

(inaudible) what was that man -- name? I think he called

me several times, but I don't know what happened to all

them people. All of 'em, all this -- some of the white men

was here, and (inaudible) and I'm still the oldest soldier

yet, walking the ground.

MZ: I had read that Harold Washington was in the 1-8-8-7.

RO: Who?

MZ: Harold Washington.

RO: Harold. Harold Washington?

MZ: Harold Washington. Does that name sound familiar?

RO: Harold White?

MZ: No, Harold --

RO: He --

MZ: Harold Washington.

RO: He was a man -- soldier?

MZ: Yeah, he was in the -- I guess he was in the unit. He went

on to become the mayor of Chicago.

RO: Hmm?

MZ: He went on to become the mayor of Chicago.

RO: Oh, oh, no, no, this fellah, he got killed. This -- I was

-- this is what I'm talking about. He got -- that's her

cousin. He up there where I got my haircut the other day.

Him and his wife, both of them dead. No, it's that -- some

of them names that I -- lot of them -- all them names, I

don't -- I can't even think about, 'cause there's some of

them boys -- come back and we didn't get back together.

And some of 'em got (inaudible) and was glad to get back.

And I didn't get why -- I come back and went to work. Made

a living. And so, I don't -- shit, no, I don't know.

Wasn't too many of 'em come here. No, it wasn't too many.

'Cause now they sit and have somebody -- were you the one

got -- you ain't the one flew in yet. No, you coming in

here --

MZ: Oh, I'm from Round Rock, so I know it's (inaudible).

RO: Yeah, he -- they -- wasn't going to fly in here from

somewhere -- Monday, on the, no on the 7th. That's where

they're going to have some kind of meeting. That's where

they want me down there, and (inaudible) lady wants me and

her come to dinner Friday.

MZ: To Fredericksburg?

RO: Huh?

MZ: You're going to go to Fredericksburg on Friday?

RO: No, it -- not the President. I know she -- to this -- they

want me and her to come (inaudible) in South Austin.

They're going to have some people there over 80 years old,

and they want me to come out there and talk to 'em, tell

'em some secrets and things I done. And I -- telling her -

- I says, "I don't feel like going." But I guess I might

have to go. They're just depending on me (inaudible) they

been wooing me now for the last -- I guess five months.

People call from Florida and Louisiana, Alabama, overseas

and everywhere, coming in -- yeah, calling -- kept on a --

yard out there full of people. And the governor come up, he

had five cameras out there. One kid -- bunch of kids was

going to school here from California. They heard about me.

Shit, one day, I was eating breakfast, and here they come,

out there with a camera. Two cameras at the (inaudible)

and they going to school over here. And they -- one of 'em

interview me from California. Live in California.

MZ: So, let me -- let's see. You've met Governor Perry, right?

RO: Huh?

MZ: You've met Governor Perry?

RO: Yeah, Gov-- yeah, he come out here and (inaudible) yes

(inaudible) and sent her a picture. Sent her a (inaudible)

got a birthday coming tomorrow. She be 90 years old. But

he wrote her a -- he's sent her a birthday -- party the

other day of the week -- a book. Yeah, he didn't know what

(inaudible) and then somebody told him. I think he

might've slipped out there and told her. (laughs) I didn't

-- but anyway, she got it. Picture -- big nice -- paper.

Big book. And she got --

MZ: So, who else you have met? I know you mentioned Ann

Richards.

RO: Yeah, and her -- Jesse James, I -- you don't remember him.

You wasn't old enough.

MZ: Jesse James?

RO: Yeah, he's the one -- stayed there so long. But he -- legs

(inaudible) he had a cast on the leg and he died, and a

wild guy. And Ben Bowens.

MZ: Oh, okay, I've heard of him.

RO: You remember him?

MZ: Yes.

RO: Yeah, and our -- was another tall fellah. He lived down

towards -- he used to -- shit, I can't see -- I can't think

of them names. I can't tell you my own name sometime.

MZ: Well it's (inaudible).

RO: John Connally.

MZ: Oh, so, okay, so you met Governor Connally, okay.

RO: You remember him?

MZ: I know of him, but --

RO: Yeah, John Connally. Yeah.

MZ: Yeah.

RO: And Preston Smith.

MZ: Preston Smith?

RO: Uh-huh.

MZ: Okay.

RO: Yeah, all them people, I work for all them (inaudible).

MZ: And you met President Obama recently, right?

RO: Huh?

MZ: You met President Obama recently.

RO: Yeah, yeah. He -- he sent -- he had two nurses -- two, or

-- not nurses. Two people (inaudible) you call -- one of

them come down -- one of them called down here one night

and talked to me, and then another one called. Secretary.

And they wrote stuff down, what they want to give to the

President. And so, they got -- interview me and talk to

me, both of them, and they got (inaudible) and he wants to

talk to us. He -- we sitting out there, and -- so, you

seen the picture, though, didn't you? Did you see the

picture?

MZ: No.

RO: Yeah (inaudible) they should have showed 'em to you.

MZ: Oh, the ones you were signing, you mean?

RO: Yeah. No, the one -- yeah, the one I signed. Yeah, he was

sitting there, was talking to us. Yeah, we went -- yeah,

we -- he -- and then -- and (inaudible) and this was --

fellah come here with it. He had a bunch of -- I went up

there one time to see him, but he was -- he left. He

didn't have time.

MZ: Oh, okay, but that was before he was President, though,

right?

RO: Yeah, he wasn't President, yeah. So, then he's -- and he -

- I talked with him again, I guess, and then -- so, he told

me to get a -- way I could come up here and he will talk to

us. So, we went up there -- I enjoyed it, the first

fellah, and -- but people (inaudible) people, Lord have

mercy, just to see us. (laughs)

MZ: Well, that must be something really special. I mean, you

got to meet the President of the United States.

RO: I guess so. They say I'm the special one, so -- they ain't

made me rich yet, and so I'm just hanging on, yeah.

(laughs)

MZ: I'm curious -- but did you ever think that in your

lifetime, you would see an African American President?

RO: Oh, and ain't never been.

MZ: Right, but did you ever think that you would -- you'd get

to see the day?

RO: I never give it a thought. I never give it a thought.

After I got old, like I am, and -- well (inaudible) my

mind, it could be a President, but I always say one of 'em

did -- this claim, black man ain't got sense enough. And

that's what they always claim, that black man ain't got

sense. But now, it's changed. Every black man got

(inaudible) just better than the white, yeah. Never --

Obama's daddy was black, but his mother was white. And

that's what make 'em mad, I guess. They want a white --

they don't want a black man to be over a white community.

That makes a different -- so, God showed 'em that it could

be done. Man didn't show 'em. God put him here, yeah. He

didn't (inaudible) by himself. He had a heart, he alive,

so God must've put him here. Man didn't make him. God

made him. The guy that put him here -- one that made him,

and He's the one gonna carry him away. (laughs) And God

the one gonna take him away.

MZ: You know, you mentioned something earlier, when asked about

friends. You said white, black, it didn't really matter,

that -- it didn't sound like there was -- it almost doesn't

-- it almost sounds as if there wasn't a lot of

discrimination, at least in the men that you served with.

RO: Used to be, before I went in the Army. Oh, yeah, it was --

see a lot of discrimination. And then, lot of people was

good to you, 'cause a lot of 'em -- is good to me. I don't

see all of 'em as being -- but some of 'em is -- just

didn't celebrate with black at all. Didn't want to be part

of black. Didn't want black men around 'em. See, black

never did (inaudible) white never did buy here. Black

bought all that here. All this area here. Black bought

that. So, now that everything got cheap and they can

handle it, why, they bought all these lots. Ain't no lots

out here now.

MZ: Well, when you were in the Pacific, when all the fighting

was going on, you said that --

RO: All of what?

MZ: When the fighting was going on in the Pacific, you said

that everybody kind of came together? That -- it almost

sounded as if color didn't matter. Is that true?

RO: That what now?

MZ: Well, you had mentioned earlier that during the fighting in

the Pacific, when you were in the Army, that --

RO: Oh, yeah, you together.

MZ: Yeah, you're all --

RO: Oh, yeah.

MZ: -- you're all together.

RO: Oh, yeah, they'd hug you. Man, they'll kiss you. (laughs)

Yeah, they hug and kiss you. There was no discrimination

in the Army. Uncle Sam didn’t want that. No, but some did

get (inaudible) that guy killed all them people in Waco, he

shot them nine.

MZ: Who was this?

RO: You know, guy that got killed in Waco. He was a -- he is -

- the governor, he's a -- he was -- he is a -- he was a

janitor in the Army, that guy that killed all them nine

people in Waco.

MZ: I don’t think I'm familiar with that.

RO: Yeah, he was -- oh, they got him now. They've been having

him for the last four or five months. Yeah, they ain't

never killed him yet (inaudible) he done it. And he would

have killed some more if it wasn't -- that girl hadn't shot

him.

MZ: I don't think I recall that.

RO: Oh, yeah, that's all over town. I know you know it, but

you just can't think of it. He came -- he's on there the

other day.

MZ: Was this recent?

RO: Yeah (inaudible) you always seen him up there on

(inaudible) they're still having his trial and all that

stuff. Shit, they oughta kill that man a long time ago, or

he would have killed more than nine people if they -- that

gun hadn't shot him.

MZ: I'll have to look that up when I get back.

RO: Yeah, I don't know his name. But what was his name? No, I

don't know his name. But I know you -- you've seen it, I

know you -- you had to see it. It's on TV. But you just

can't think. You getting like me, now you can't think all

the -- (laughs)

MZ: Well, that's --

RO: But they're --

MZ: (inaudible) (laughs)

RO: Yeah.

MZ: Is there anything else that you remember about your time

during the war? Maybe something that I haven't asked you

about that you'd like to share?

RO: Well, not that I know of. It's a lot that I think about

after you're gone, but I don't know. It just -- it's done

so (inaudible) so much funny stuff went on in the Army,

too.

MZ: Like what?

RO: I guess -- well, you could -- they would -- you didn't --

you couldn't (inaudible) -- no girlfriends or nothing. But

when we got to Hawaii, they let us dress up one day.

That's when (inaudible) with that cap on. They let us

dress up and go out one night, I think, or day or

something. And that's when I got to mix with a lot of the

Jap-- the -- in Hawaii. But, see, they was naked. Shit,

they didn't have nothing but a strip and a -- across the

chest, and barefooted. And then, they -- and it's -- and

the -- barefoot, and the men had on a tie and a suit and

everything, he's barefooted. But on the ground was 100

degree weather. He -- they'd be standing on the street,

barefooted, and you -- we could hardly walk in there in our

shoes it was so hot. That country was hot, and they were

standing up there barefooted. Then got -- heat then got

(inaudible) so, there.

MZ: Did you find the Hawaiian people friendly?

RO: Huh?

MZ: Did you find the Hawaiian people friendly?

RO: The what?

MZ: The Hawaiians? Did you find them friendly people?

RO: Oversea-- oh, Hawaii?

MZ: Mm-hmm.

RO: Oh, yeah, they're friendly, what few are there. A lot of

'em got killed and a lot of 'em was there (inaudible) when

they -- there wasn't no big town, but now it's got to

growing up (inaudible) taking it, they had to rebuild all

(inaudible) and put more buildings and build a bigger

airfield. That -- see that, first -- well, see, they raped

a lot of women over there before we got there. They raped

a lot of women, killed 'em. So, there -- them Japanese.

MZ: In the -- at Pearl Harbor, did you -- was that just a stop

for you? Or did you help in rebuilding that airfield?

RO: No, no, no. That's a -- that was a town. A little town,

like -- but it was -- it wasn't no great big town, but it

was -- they got -- after the United States got it, why,

they got to build it. See, lot of the soldiers -- they

built for soldiers to live there. Yeah, it was pretty good

size. But they have some big fish (inaudible) side -- the

river, and you come in. That was pretty, when you come in

that river, right down to Hawaii (inaudible) side over

there. It's a great big, beautiful rock houses. It's got

a lot of people -- had build that down there. Went there

and build houses and things, and so after we -- after

American -- got it, why, then, a lot of people went over

there to live, build homes over there.

MZ: Oh --

RO: Made a big airfield and everything.

MZ: Let me -- I need to take a little break here. I -- to take

this call, I'm sorry, was actually expecting it.

RO: Yeah.

MZ: Hello? (break in audio) Let me just start this up again,

and I got just one more question. Well, I think that's

pretty much all the questions I have for you.

RO: You think so?

MZ: I think so. (laughter) It's been about an hour and a half,

I think a little bit more, and I don't want to wear you

down too much.

RO: Yeah. What you going to put that on -- the -- you going to

write this on paper?

MZ: Well, what happens is that someone will take the recording

and they will transcribe it and put -- yeah, so they'll put

it on paper.

RO: And then you can read it?

MZ: Well, it gets stored away in an archive, and if someone

wants to -- is doing research on a particular area, or

maybe on building airfields or something like that -- or on

African Americans that served in the Pacific, then they can

-- then it'll be accessible to them to go through.

RO: Yeah, like, I seen planes, they go off -- yeah, there's

something about a wing and a prayer? That's an old song.

I remember a plane used to leave so pretty, they would --

when they get ready to go on a flight, we'd be setting on a

-- back at -- on our camp on some island, and with our gun

in our lap, and them planes started coming over. This

72 bunch'd come over, go over. This bunch'd go over and make a circle. Another bunch get up and go and make that circle. And about -- maybe about 12 or 16 planes leave, and sometimes half of them get back. They'd leave that evening, and they had gas enough to go back -- going where they're going, go back over then fight. A lot of 'em didn't get back. Some of 'em come back and they call 'em a wing and a prayer. Wing shot, it come in sideways.

Sometime get -- it fall before it get to the -- to where it's supposed to land, and the ship had to go out there and pick 'em up. Yeah, they -- ships had -- you could send 20 out there, you ain't gonna get no 20 coming back. You could make it -- half of 'em back. Shame. Yeah, it's a shame. Yeah, they would leave well and hardy, and that -- when they were going to get ready to go to their destination, all of 'em would come around and all of 'em get in a line and take off. And they get so far, then they

(inaudible) couldn't shoot in each other's -- you know, and each other's (inaudible) they had to get off to the

(inaudible) get caught. And the Japanese would shoot you in a minute. It was -- there was some pretty good marksmen over there. Pretty good shooters. Run (inaudible) and hit

'em (inaudible) run a bullet, you know, that's -- (laughs) you -- in an airplane, when you -- when a plane coming

over, you got to shoot way up in the front of it. Every

airplane flying around, 200 -- around 300 miles an hour --

MZ: Yeah.

RO: -- or 400 miles an hour. You shoot a plane now, why, hell,

that plane be out yonder, your bullet be back here.

(laughter) So, you have to shoot in front of that plane and

let it fly into the whatchacallit, and then let it fly into

the bullet. People think, yeah, I'll get up there and

shoot at it. Well, a bird's the same way. You catch a

bird coming (inaudible) flying, you've got to shoot in

front of that bird, 'cause you're going to miss if you

shoot at him. You're gonna miss it. Yeah.

MZ: Did you ever see any Japanese prisoners?

RO: Japanese prisoners?

MZ: Did you ever see any?

RO: Yeah, yeah, I seen a lot of them. Yeah, seen some

(inaudible) made us so mad, we run 'em off, and when we

come back and got to Oklahoma -- or California, I mean --

and put (inaudible) line us up and get coffee -- lines up

to drink coffee, and (inaudible) who it was, and Japs out

there with them white caps on and these white skirts --

white shirts and thing-- we run 'em out of there. They

would try and get -- they would get enough (inaudible) we

over there fighting them, and they were there dressed up in

white. We come back here bloody and red, crippled. We --

some of us crippled and lame, and they out there just in

white and pretty. They made 'em go on the back, yeah. We

poured that coffee out, wouldn't even drink it. (laughs) I

remember that, we come back. Made us all made. There's a

bunch -- see some more people -- more soldiers come from

different places when they retire -- when they -- when the

war was over, several of 'em couldn't come back. So, they

still stayed in the war, the young people. Yeah, just keep

'em in the Army at a certain age. The men -- just two men

-- another fellow -- was the only two -- come back at our

reunion, you know, at our reunion. Only two. Now, I'm the

oldest one. I know -- I guess he dead and gone now, I

know, 'cause he was a little bit older than I was.

MZ: So, you used to go to reunions?

RO: Huh?

MZ: You used to go to reunions?

RO: Museum?

MZ: No, no, did you ever go to any reunions?

RO: Reunions? No. Here, you mean?

MZ: Oh, just anywhere. I mean, I know different units hold

reunions every couple of years. I was just curious if

you'd ever gone to one.

RO: Union? What did --

MZ: Well, a reunion of men in your unit, where they get

together after the war, just --

RO: Oh, no, no, I never -- no, I never go to one of -- no, no.

I -- we got through that war, yeah, and we glad to get rid

of that (inaudible) really, we didn't think a lot of it. I

mean, I (inaudible) we still at that place.

MZ: Yeah.

RO: Yeah, it was a good -- makes you mad every time you talk

about it. You could mad, mad, mad, mad, yeah. You don't

care about -- talk about it, lots of us (inaudible) there's

a million people over there. And them women over there,

it's pitiful how bloody they was. They got soles on 'em

big as saucers. Some of (inaudible) whole hips bloody.

Whole shoulders. They had no doctors. We had to build a

fence around that, had to have a fence built around them to

keep the men from going in there, 'cause the men -- some of

the men is crazy. They go in and grab the women, and had

to put a sign around there, or fence around there. Yeah,

they're (inaudible) all on the leg. Yeah, see they got

soles on 'em and thing -- no doctor. They didn't have no

doctors.

MZ: What women were these?

RO: Huh?

MZ: What women were these?

RO: What women were these?

MZ: Yeah, which --

RO: After I got overseas (inaudible) here's a lot of Japanese

women over there, too, like men. Yeah. But them women,

you sometime -- you had to search them. Shit, some of them

women had guns. Some of them, they're mean. They were

slick. You couldn't trust one of 'em. You hated to shoot

'em, but you had to kill some of them. Shit, you didn't

know what they had. Oh, they was fighting, too. Some of

the women were fighting like women over here. Crazy.

(laughs) Yes, and they (inaudible) way -- big fence around

'em and lock it up where they couldn't get out. Some of

'em laying there naked, no clothes, half-dead. Didn't have

time to bury 'em. A lot of these men over there, and they

-- you could bury some of the people, 'cause we had

tractors over there. See (inaudible) over there, the water

-- the ground has got a lot of dirt on it, but ground so

far has got gravel on, and down on the ground got water.

And so, you can't go too deep in that dirt.

MZ: Right.

RO: It -- that's where -- take a bulldozer and go down, make a

track and then lay some bodies in there and come back with

a bulldozer and cover 'em up. That's the way they do it.

And some (inaudible) dump in the river.

MZ: Right.

RO: Yeah, if you kill too many, you didn't have time to just

put 'em -- you know, put 'em away like humans. But some of

them people, they say come back here, they not in that box.

They don't let you see -- so they ain't in the box that

they ship back here. They just -- that man got torn to

pieces. He might -- yeah, he might -- this guy, he might -

- you know, got shot and tore all to pieces.

MZ: Is there any other recollections you have that you'd like

to share?

RO: Hmm?

MZ: Are there any other stories or --

RO: Stories?

MZ: -- or memories about the war that you'd like to share?

RO: No, I don't -- guess that's what I can think of right now.

There's some more in there, but I don't know what I can say

about them.

MZ: All right, well, I think that's pretty much all my

questions for you today.

RO: Huh?

MZ: Well, that's pretty much all my questions for today.

RO: I enjoyed 'em. I bet you got a lot of 'em. You --

MZ: Well, I just wanted to say thank you for your service.

RO: Huh?

MZ: I just wanted to say thank you for your service. I'm sure

you hear it a lot but, you know, I can imagine it was a

very tough time. I mean, you were there the whole war,

really.

RO: Yeah.

MZ: That's four years. I mean, being away from your family and

your friend and --

RO: Yeah.

MZ: -- you know, not knowing if something was going to happen

to you. So, thank you.

RO: Yeah, I was a lucky person. Right, yeah, a lot of -- some

of the boys was lucky. Some of them got hit, wounded, but

most of us didn't. Sure didn't.

MZ: You were never wounded?

RO: Huh?

MZ: Were you ever wounded?

RO: Wounded? No.

MZ: Well, you were lucky.

RO: Only time I was wounded, I was playing one day (inaudible)

when a damn -- a palm branch tree -- well, what you call

them -- from an old -- rough trees. Well, they skin ya.

(laughs) We was -- set down one day, resting or something.

We had our guns and everything. You had to have -- gun

everywhere you go. You had to sleep with your gun. Yeah,

and I went there and climbed that tree and slid down that

tree, and that tree scraped my leg. It's -- one of those

pomegranate -- one of those big pomegranate trees, it got a

rough side, you -- rough. Man (inaudible) my leg, I had to

go to the hospital. It -- they wanted to court-marital me.

Don't ever catch me on one of them trees anymore. (laughs)

Yes, it -- but the whole tree was just like a knife,

needles. And I went up that tree and had to slide down

that, really, man, it tore my leg up. Crazy. 'Cause I was

pretty tough over there. I'd run, jump -- a lot of things

a lot of the boys wouldn't even do. It's just some of us

so lazy -- be so lazy over there -- and they try to be lazy

over there, but Uncle Sam tore their butt up. Made 'em be

a soldier.

MZ: Well, being a soldier's hard work.

RO: Huh?

MZ: Being a soldier's hard work.

RO: Yeah! They don't want -- they didn't want to do this and

do that. Shucks, you get -- they court-martial you didn't.

MZ: Do you remember what rank you were when you got out of the

service?

RO: Not a -- I had one sign, but they give me a big sign after

I left. I was a PFC when I left. And they give me a big

sign, and I had the rifle thing on my shoulder. Got to put

a rifle right in them things on your -- I had -- I got one

(inaudible) I can't find -- them kids must have got it. I

got five of them things on there. Beautiful. And it got

big -- great big rose conduct medal, and good conduct.

Yeah, got that on there.

MZ: Okay.

RO: Yeah, got a good conduct medal. (laughs) I must've been a

good soldier when they give you a good conduct medal.

MZ: Well, you must've been, 'cause they only give 'em to

soldiers --

RO: I know, yeah.

MZ: All right, well, I'm going to go ahead and turn the

recorder off, then we just have some paperwork to do and

that's it.

END OF AUDIO FILE