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Parliamentary Debates (Hansard) Friday Volume 576 28 February 2014 No. 128 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Friday 28 February 2014 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2014 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 523 28 FEBRUARY 2014 524 House of Commons House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Public Bill Committee Friday 28 February 2014 Clause 1 The House met at half-past Nine o’clock RESIGNATION 9.46 am PRAYERS Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): I beg to move amendment 2, page 1, line 2, after ‘peer’, [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] insert ‘and has been a peer for 10 years’. Mr Speaker: With this it will be convenient to discuss Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): I beg to move, the following: That the House sit in private. Amendment 3, page 1, line 2, after ‘peer’, insert ‘and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 163). has been a peer for 10 years and is over the age of 65’. The House divided: Ayes 1, Noes 42. Amendment 4, page 1, line 7, leave out ‘a witness’ and Division No. 215] [9.34 am insert ‘two witnesses, both of whom must be peers of the same degree’. AYES Amendment 6, page 1, line 10, at end insert ‘after the date specified in 2(a) above’. Rees-Mogg, Jacob Tellers for the Ayes: Mr David Nuttall and Amendment 7, page 1, line 10, at end insert— Dr Thérèse Coffey ‘(5) This section does not apply to unelected hereditary peers who sit in the House of Lords’. Amendment 8, page 1, line 10, at end insert— NOES ‘( ) An hereditary peer who retires or otherwise resigns in Ashworth, Jonathan Mearns, Ian accordance with this section shall be deemed to have died Baker, Norman Penrose, John allowing any heir to be eligible to be elected.’. Barker, rh Gregory Phillips, Stephen Amendment 9, page 1, line 10, at end insert— Bingham, Andrew Phillipson, Bridget ‘( ) A life peer who retires or otherwise resigns in accordance Blunkett, rh Mr David Poulter, Dr Daniel with this section will upon petition to the Queen be raised to the Bottomley, Sir Peter Robertson, rh Hugh state degree style dignity title and honour of viscount.’. Brown, Lyn Rogerson, Dan Byles, Dan Seabeck, Alison Jacob Rees-Mogg: With hindsight, how fortunate it is Campbell, Mr Alan Skinner, Mr Dennis that we are not sitting in private to discuss these important Clark, rh Greg Spellar, rh Mr John matters, which will be of interest to the nation at large, Docherty, Thomas Stewart, Iain concerning retirement or resignation from the House of Duncan, rh Mr Alan Twigg, Stephen Lords. Efford, Clive Vaizey, Mr Edward Amendment 2 would simply add a line to clause 1 to Field, Mark Webb, Steve Gauke, Mr David the effect that a peer may not resign until they have been Williams, Stephen a peer for a minimum of 10 years. If somebody accepts Greatrex, Tom Willott, Jenny Gwynne, Andrew a great honour from the Crown, it seems to me that they Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Hammond, Stephen have an obligation to live up to that honour. Circumstances Wright, Mr Iain Hands, Greg might change and require a different lifestyle that makes Wright, Jeremy Harris, Rebecca it impossible for them to attend the House, but to enter Hollobone, Mr Philip Tellers for the Noes: lightly into the receipt of a peerage—that great honour Jones, Helen Amber Rudd and bestowed by our sovereign of being a legislator in the Lefroy, Jeremy Stephen Crabb second House of Parliament—and then to give it up after a day or two or, conceivably, even after a minute, Question accordingly negatived. seems improper. People enter into a life peerage, and understand that they have done so for life, hence the name. It is amazing how often an obvious point about something is made in its title. There is no obfuscation in the title “life peer”. It is not a temporary peerage, a Parliament peerage or a dated peerage, but a life peerage. One of the glories of the House of Lords is that it represents age. It is not full of scribbling youths, but has people of mature years, of wisdom, of grey beards, and even of grey flowing locks, which shows how much they have learnt and experienced over the years. Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab): I was here for Second Reading, as the hon. Gentleman knows, and must recommend him to the BBC as a panellist on “Just a Minute”—he would be absolutely superb. In the light of his speech on 525 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 526 [Mr David Blunkett] an exciting and great honour to have—why would these people wish to give it up? I recall that when Disraeli Second Reading and his contribution this morning, went to the House of Lords, he said that he was not which clearly will be enlightening, may I ask whether he dead opposes any kind of reform of the House of Lords? “but in the Elysian fields.” Who, having entered the Elysian fields, wants to come Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to the right hon. back down to earth? It seems extraordinary in the first Gentleman for his intervention. The return of the hereditary place that anyone would want to leave those glorious peerage is the sort of reform that would improve the red Benches and the gilt around the throne—the quality of the House considerably. I do think that there magnificence that the House of Lords shows to the are opportunities for reform but, as I said on Second world—and trot out into the humdrum life in front of Reading—I had better not go through this all again, them. [Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Member for Mr Speaker—I have concerns about this process for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) asks whether this is a reforming the second Chamber. I think that reform job application. I am by no means grand enough to ought to have been proposed in a Government Bill and enter their lordships’ House. I like representing the considered in a Committee of the whole House. British people—vox populi, vox Dei—through this Although the Bill is simple, it would fundamentally illustrious Chamber rather than in their lordships’ noble change the nature of the House of Lords. Removing the House. Given the question of why anybody would want absolute certainty that a peerage is for life would allow to leave, they ought to live up to the commitment they people appointed to the House to remain there for a have made. Ten years seems reasonable; I would have term. That change in structure would allow Governments been happy with 15 or 20 years. that are not necessarily as benign as this one—I will talk Moreover, crucially, when Ministers go into the House about this further in relation to some of my other of Lords they may want to be there only while they are amendments—to ensure that peers are in the House for in ministerial office. That is not a proper way of treating only a certain period, and possibly to get them post-dated the constitution. Ministers who go into the House of cheques for when they might resign. I think that that Lords ought to stay there for an extended period to reform should have been handled differently, but there show a commitment to the legislature, not just to being are certainly reforms that could be made to the House appointees of the Executive who are here today, gone of Lords. tomorrow. These amendments are important and would Amendment 2 ties in with amendment 3. The point of improve the Bill. Had we been debating them in a amendment 3 is to insert a minimum age for retirement, Committee of the whole House, it is likely that some of whereby no peer under 65 could retire. Being a peer—a these changes would have been made. legislator in the upper House—should not be a marker Amendment 4 is about the witnessing of the peer’s in somebody’s career. It should not be a point on their statement that he wishes to retire or resign. The statement CV so that when they apply for jobs in merchant banks, may be witnessed by anybody, but I think that it should or wherever, they can say “I was a peer for 10 years”. be witnessed by two people, both of whom must be People who take it on should commit to do so for an peers of the same degree. Is that because I think that extended period, so that if a peer is raised to that rank, lots of fraudulent certificates will be issued by random style and dignity at the age of 40, there will be an people wandering around signing things and pretending expectation that the major part of their future life and to be witnesses to statements that peers have not made? career will be a commitment to serve the House—this No, I do not think that, but these resignations are country—in the second Chamber. essentially proceedings in Parliament, and they should These two amendments, in essence, offer the House be a formal parliamentary proceeding registered by the choice of saying that there ought to be a minimum people who are also Members of Parliament.
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