Friday Volume 576 28 February 2014 No. 128

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Friday 28 February 2014

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2014 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 523 28 FEBRUARY 2014 524 House of Commons House of Reform (No. 2) Bill Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Public Bill Committee Friday 28 February 2014 Clause 1

The House met at half-past Nine o’clock RESIGNATION 9.46 am PRAYERS Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): I beg to move amendment 2, page 1, line 2, after ‘peer’, [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] insert ‘and has been a peer for 10 years’. Mr Speaker: With this it will be convenient to discuss Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): I beg to move, the following: That the House sit in private. Amendment 3, page 1, line 2, after ‘peer’, insert ‘and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 163). has been a peer for 10 years and is over the age of 65’. The House divided: Ayes 1, Noes 42. Amendment 4, page 1, line 7, leave out ‘a witness’ and Division No. 215] [9.34 am insert ‘two witnesses, both of whom must be peers of the same degree’. AYES Amendment 6, page 1, line 10, at end insert ‘after the date specified in 2(a) above’. Rees-Mogg, Jacob Tellers for the Ayes: Mr David Nuttall and Amendment 7, page 1, line 10, at end insert— Dr Thérèse Coffey ‘(5) This section does not apply to unelected hereditary peers who sit in the ’. Amendment 8, page 1, line 10, at end insert— NOES ‘( ) An hereditary peer who retires or otherwise resigns in Ashworth, Jonathan Mearns, Ian accordance with this section shall be deemed to have died Baker, Norman Penrose, John allowing any heir to be eligible to be elected.’. Barker, rh Gregory Phillips, Stephen Amendment 9, page 1, line 10, at end insert— Bingham, Andrew Phillipson, Bridget ‘( ) A who retires or otherwise resigns in accordance Blunkett, rh Mr David Poulter, Dr Daniel with this section will upon petition to the Queen be raised to the Bottomley, Sir Peter Robertson, rh Hugh state degree style dignity title and honour of .’. Brown, Lyn Rogerson, Dan Byles, Dan Seabeck, Alison Jacob Rees-Mogg: With hindsight, how fortunate it is Campbell, Mr Alan Skinner, Mr Dennis that we are not sitting in private to discuss these important Clark, rh Greg Spellar, rh Mr John matters, which will be of interest to the nation at large, Docherty, Thomas Stewart, Iain concerning retirement or resignation from the House of Duncan, rh Mr Alan Twigg, Stephen Lords. Efford, Clive Vaizey, Mr Edward Amendment 2 would simply add a line to clause 1 to Field, Mark Webb, Steve Gauke, Mr David the effect that a peer may not resign until they have been Williams, Stephen a peer for a minimum of 10 years. If somebody accepts Greatrex, Tom Willott, Jenny Gwynne, Andrew a great honour from , it seems to me that they Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Hammond, Stephen have an obligation to live up to that honour. Circumstances Wright, Mr Iain Hands, Greg might change and require a different lifestyle that makes Wright, Jeremy Harris, Rebecca it impossible for them to attend the House, but to enter Hollobone, Mr Philip Tellers for the Noes: lightly into the receipt of a —that great honour Jones, Helen Amber Rudd and bestowed by our sovereign of being a legislator in the Lefroy, Jeremy Stephen Crabb second House of Parliament—and then to give it up after a day or two or, conceivably, even after a minute, Question accordingly negatived. seems improper. People enter into a life peerage, and understand that they have done so for life, hence the name. It is amazing how often an obvious point about something is made in its title. There is no obfuscation in the title “life peer”. It is not a temporary peerage, a Parliament peerage or a dated peerage, but a life peerage. One of the glories of the House of Lords is that it represents age. It is not full of scribbling youths, but has people of mature years, of wisdom, of grey beards, and even of grey flowing locks, which shows how much they have learnt and experienced over the years. Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab): I was here for Second Reading, as the hon. Gentleman knows, and must recommend him to the BBC as a panellist on “Just a Minute”—he would be absolutely superb. In the light of his speech on 525 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 526

[Mr David Blunkett] an exciting and great honour to have—why would these people wish to give it up? I recall that when Disraeli Second Reading and his contribution this morning, went to the House of Lords, he said that he was not which clearly will be enlightening, may I ask whether he dead opposes any kind of reform of the House of Lords? “but in the Elysian fields.” Who, having entered the Elysian fields, wants to come Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to the right hon. back down to earth? It seems extraordinary in the first Gentleman for his intervention. The return of the hereditary place that anyone would want to leave those glorious peerage is the sort of reform that would improve the red Benches and the gilt around the throne—the quality of the House considerably. I do think that there magnificence that the House of Lords shows to the are opportunities for reform but, as I said on Second world—and trot out into the humdrum life in front of Reading—I had better not go through this all again, them. [Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Member for Mr Speaker—I have concerns about this process for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) asks whether this is a reforming the second Chamber. I think that reform job application. I am by no means grand enough to ought to have been proposed in a Government Bill and enter their lordships’ House. I like representing the considered in a Committee of the whole House. British people—vox populi, vox Dei—through this Although the Bill is simple, it would fundamentally illustrious Chamber rather than in their lordships’ noble change the nature of the House of Lords. Removing the House. Given the question of why anybody would want absolute certainty that a peerage is for life would allow to leave, they ought to live up to the commitment they people appointed to the House to remain there for a have made. Ten years seems reasonable; I would have term. That change in structure would allow Governments been happy with 15 or 20 years. that are not necessarily as benign as this one—I will talk Moreover, crucially, when Ministers go into the House about this further in relation to some of my other of Lords they may want to be there only while they are amendments—to ensure that peers are in the House for in ministerial office. That is not a proper way of treating only a certain period, and possibly to get them post-dated the constitution. Ministers who go into the House of cheques for when they might resign. I think that that Lords ought to stay there for an extended period to reform should have been handled differently, but there show a commitment to the legislature, not just to being are certainly reforms that could be made to the House appointees of the Executive who are here today, gone of Lords. tomorrow. These amendments are important and would Amendment 2 ties in with amendment 3. The point of improve the Bill. Had we been debating them in a amendment 3 is to insert a minimum age for retirement, Committee of the whole House, it is likely that some of whereby no peer under 65 could retire. Being a peer—a these changes would have been made. legislator in the upper House—should not be a marker Amendment 4 is about the witnessing of the peer’s in somebody’s career. It should not be a point on their statement that he wishes to retire or resign. The statement CV so that when they apply for jobs in merchant banks, may be witnessed by anybody, but I think that it should or wherever, they can say “I was a peer for 10 years”. be witnessed by two people, both of whom must be People who take it on should commit to do so for an peers of the same degree. Is that because I think that extended period, so that if a peer is raised to that rank, lots of fraudulent certificates will be issued by random style and dignity at the age of 40, there will be an people wandering around signing things and pretending expectation that the major part of their future life and to be witnesses to statements that peers have not made? career will be a commitment to serve the House—this No, I do not think that, but these resignations are country—in the second Chamber. essentially proceedings in Parliament, and they should These two amendments, in essence, offer the House be a formal parliamentary proceeding registered by the choice of saying that there ought to be a minimum people who are also Members of Parliament. This period and that it ought to be longer than a single would be a safeguard to ensure that somebody did not Parliament. Ten years obviously equates to two Parliaments resign in a light moment and then regret it, or have the under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011. That gets statement signed in their office and send it in having away from the risk that people might use the House of been pushed into doing it by offers of who knows Lords as a means of advancing their political career in what—perhaps an offer of becoming a European relation to the Commons, a point to which we will commissioner or something grand and fancy such as return in a subsequent group of amendments. The that, although I know that there is a special way for amendments are about expecting people to follow through such people to stay in the House of Lords with a formal on the commitment they have given, so that when their leave of absence. We should ensure that the grave and letters patent are issued they will be doing this for life. important decision to leave the upper Chamber is made properly and thoughtfully and that there is a formal Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): What is my process by which to register that decision. hon. Friend’s preference between amendments 2 and 3? That ties in with amendment 6, which says: “after the date specified in 2(a) above”. Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to my hon. Friend The problem with reading out amendments without for that intervention. My preference is for amendment 3, reading out the relevant part of the Bill is that they as it would ensure that people retired from Parliament sound rather obscure, so it may be sensible to explain. when they were coming to the end of their working The Bill says that if somebody signs a form resigning career. It is wrong for people to use membership of the from the House of Lords, that notice is irrevocable from House of Lords as a point on their CV. It is not an the point at which it has been signed, even if it is a internship that people do for a little while to get a bit of long-post-dated cheque. So if a peer entered the House work experience before taking on another job. It is such of Lords and said that he intended to resign in eight 527 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 528 years’ time, the document would be irrevocable, even Party discipline is very important. It is important though all sorts of things may change. That person that a Government are able to get their business through, would then be ineligible to be a peer again in future. I but party discipline in a revising Chamber is unhelpful, think that that is a mistake. There should be an ability because instead of doing its job of revising it tends to withdraw the notice prior to its becoming effective; simply to along with what is asked of it by the party otherwise, appointments to the House of Lords are managers. That is damaging both ways: it is damaging if opened up to abuse. Governments do it, because it means that they are not I have heard former Leaders of the House of Lords— necessarily putting through Bills that have had the noble Lords themselves—talk about what happens when wisdom and benefit of the proper revising process, and people ask for . It may shock you, Mr Speaker, it is equally bad when Oppositions do it simply to that people ask for peerages. I would have thought it oppose what the Government are doing. We have seen was an enormous impertinence for anybody to say to that on a number of occasions in the House of Lords the Prime Minister or to the Leader of the House of when, out of party loyalty, rather than according to the Lords that they would like a peerage, but people do. argument, the will of the House of Commons has been Apparently, they knock on their doors to ask to be thwarted. given a peerage; they queue up outside their offices as though they were waiting for an omnibus. When they 10 am do so—I really have heard Leaders of the House of To overcome that, the great benefit that their lordships Lords make speeches along these lines—they say anything have is their independence, which is dependent on the that the people dishing the peerage out may wish to structure of their appointment, namely that they are hear. They say, “I’ll always vote with the Government there for life and cannot be removed. Anything that line, I’ll never disobey, I’ll do what I’m told”, and so on undermines that needs to be done with the greatest and so forth. caution and have as many safeguards built into it as Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Why don’t you possible, so that people do not become pressurised to name a couple? leave at a point they would not choose, because if that happens they would be fundamentally less independent. Jacob Rees-Mogg: Sadly, I have heard Leaders of the My amendment 7 is perhaps a little obscure, for House of Lords talk only in general terms—they have which I apologise. It occurred to me that the Bill as not named names—so the hon. Gentleman cannot lead drafted has forgotten about the Great Chamberlain me down that route, and if I did I might be out of order and the Marshal. It is extraordinary that anyone because saying anything critical of a noble peer is could ever forget about them. I think about them most against the forms of this House, and neither would I days, at considerable length, and the many onerous wish to do so. duties they have. Anyone who paid attention to the visit There is the risk that peers, before they are appointed— of Mrs Merkel yesterday will have noticed that the therefore, of course, they are not yet peers—are in the event was held at the other end of this Palace by position of asking for something that they want that is permission of the , who has a in the Government’s gift, and the Government want to role in Parliament. He is an hereditary office holder—it have some leverage over them to ensure that they behave is one of the few hereditary offices in this country—of a in the way the Government want when they are appointed. most interesting kind, because the office is shared between One of the glories of the House of Lords is that once families according to reign. I believe the Cholmondeleys people are there, they are independent because they are had it for two reigns out of three, and two other families there for life. That preserves them from the terrors of share it in the third reign. the Whips. We in this House live in daily terror of the The problem with the Bill is that it could lead to the fierce power the Whips have whereby they may do all Lord Great Chamberlain retiring from his role in Parliament sorts of extraordinary things to us with any amount of but not retiring from his great office of state. We could instruments of torture that are maintained in the bowels reach the ridiculous position where the Lord Great of the Palace of Westminster, but in their lordships’ Chamberlain and the would remain the House those instruments are ineffective—they have rusted Lord Great Chamberlain and the Earl Marshal but away because the peers are there for life. That is a great would not be Members of their lordships’ House. That protection for them. If somebody could give a post-dated would inadvertently and specifically contradict one of cheque—if someone could say, “I will leave the House a the aims of the House of Lords Reform Act 1999, few years after going in”—that protection would begin which took away hereditary peers, namely that of keeping to ebb away. But if they had the power to rescind the 90 plus two. The two were specifically kept because of notice, whatever they said at the point at which they their hereditary constitutional role and it was felt suitable were grubbing round for the peerage, they would be able that they should remain in the House of Lords. I would to withdraw it, and the independence of being a peer for be sorry to see something that Parliament deliberately life would be maintained. decided when reforming the House of Lords in the late This flexibility ought to be added to the Bill because 1990s being accidentally removed, because if the Earl it would allow peers to maintain that which is the Marshal decides to retire from his public duties when he essence of the success of our revising Chamber. What becomes an elderly man—which in due course of time makes the House of Lords successful, and different he undoubtedly will—he will not be able to retire as from this House, is that because peers are not standing Earl Marshal. for re-election and do not need to be readopted by their The amendment covers something that has been parties, and because very few of them are Ministers, overlooked with regard to those great offices of state. there are many fewer baubles that may be offered to It would be a shame if the House of Lords were not them to maintain party discipline. adorned in this way. As I said earlier, it is such a 529 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 530 wonderful and elegant Chamber, but to remain wonderful would work, because I could not see where the and elegant it needs to have these fantastic, historic would go. It is not possible to make a a royal posts. The Earl Marshal is such an important figure in duke—that requires a blood relationship to the Crown—so our history. His predecessors were present at so many of I decided not to go that far. I apologise to the , the great battles in which Britain—or , more who were all getting very excited at the possibility of accurately—fought. He is a noble, historic figure. We do going up to a dukedom and raising the honour of their not want to lose him inadvertently from their lordships’ family. House, and likewise the Lord Great Chamberlain. I think that a viscountcy is appropriate for a life I think it would be an error for some of the organisation peerage, because it is one step up in the peerage and it is of this Palace to be done by someone of the highest also hereditary rather than for life. That would be a fine rank and in the name of the Queen who was not a thing for families to have. It would also, importantly, Member of either House. I do not think it would be continue the tradition of creating hereditary peerages, quite as bad as the suggestion sometimes made that which I am in favour of, not because they can sit in the Mr Speaker should have a specific seat—which is a House of Lords, but because if we want to allow people dangerous idea because it would take him away from throughout society to rise and advance themselves, the the fundamental part of this House and the position he highest posts in the land should be open to everybody. holds—but it would be heading in the same direction. By freezing the hereditary peerage we create a tighter My amendment would put that right. class structure than when that peerage is open. Instead My amendment 8 would maintain the hereditary of saying, “Unless you got your title before the last ones principle, so I expect fierce opposition to it from Labour were given in 1983, you can only have a life peerage”, we Members. The hereditary principle is established with could say that a grocer’s daughter who became Prime the remaining 90 hereditary peers, and those who are Minister, for example, could become an earl, or a countess outside the 90 are eligible for election. Perhaps the in the case of that lady. Minister will tell me whether it is still possible for a It would be wonderful to allow that degree of social of acceleration to promote the holder of a lower title to mobility. If social mobility is a good thing—I think be eligible for election as an hereditary peer. He will most Members in this House think it is—people should remember that the now of Salisbury took his be able to rise to the top. A viscount is not quite the top, seat by writ of acceleration rather than by being given a but it is jolly near the top. It would give a real incentive life peerage. I am unaware of what the precise form to peers, particularly those with a sense of history and would be. an interest in their family line. Most peers are likely to The amendment tries to make that take effect in the be in that category. If the amendment was agreed, it event that an hereditary peer resigns his seat. The title would be fascinating to see whether, on balance, socialist could maintain its representation in Parliament, which peers or Conservative peers were keenest to get an is something that has usually been protected by allowing hereditary peerage by stepping aside. One might be the peerage title to leave the House of Lords only when quite surprised by how many die-hard socialists suddenly the peer dies. I think that this is sensible from the point wanted to improve the decoration of their coronet and of view of widening and keeping refreshed the pool to raise their status. from which the 90 can be elected. The right to sit in the What do I want from my first set of amendments? House of Lords and to be among those elected hereditaries They aim to safeguard what is important about the should pass along a clear and defined route, and if the House of Lords, and to ensure that it is an institution of top of the root is cut off, its stalk should be allowed to the utmost regard, seniority and distinction, rather than flower. It might not flower, because it might not be something that somebody can enter lightly. I accept that elected in one of the by-elections to the House of people will ask, “What if somebody falls ill and cannot Lords, but the possibility of flowering should at least be carry out their duties?” If somebody falls ill, they can there. I will avoid further horticultural metaphors, because leave the House of Lords in other ways—by not turning I am not particularly good at them. up, which we will come to in a later set of amendments, My final amendment 9 provides a carrot. This Bill or they can get a leave of absence from their lordships’ has a lot of sticks with which to beat their lordships House until they are better. If we always take the most over their noble heads. I hope they will wear their difficult cases, we will end up creating loopholes that coronets to protect them against the sticks with they allow dangerous and not fully thought-through will be beaten to get them out of the House of Lords. I constitutional changes. wanted to provide a carrot and I think it is a nice, juicy The amendments are all about protecting the status, carrot. The amendment proposes that a life peer, on stature and seriousness of the House of Lords, as well petition to Her Majesty, will be raised to as about requiring people to stick to what they have said “the state degree style dignity title and honour of viscount.” they will do. I have remarkably little sympathy with What is the purpose of that? I hope I will not be those who, having accepted an honour, think for no besieged by noble who think that I would very good reason—a change of circumstance or business lower the tone of their fine estate by allowing all sorts of interest is not a very good reason—that it is more other people to enter into it, but it is only a very limited convenient to give up their peerage. That is a fundamentally number of enormously distinguished people who would bad idea. be allowed to do so. It would be a reward for leaving the In the past 20 years, there has been a change from House of Lords, making way for others to fill their peerages being dished out as honours to their being places and making sure that it does not get overfilled. dished out to legislators. It used to be that a peer’s I did think of tabling an amendment saying that any legislating role was the secondary aspect of an honour peer—hereditary or life—who resigned would be raised granted for the performance of some great public service. by one degree in the peerage, but I did not think that Most peers are now appointed as working peers: they 531 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 532 are there to do a job as legislators and, as they have and I am pleased that we can discuss the amendments, accepted, to do it for life. To allow them to leave after but I urge the House to resist supporting them for the five years—or after any period of less than 10 years—or reasons that I shall give. under the age of 65 would be an error. Amendments 2 and 3 would require peers to serve a I will not dwell on the matter of witnesses, which is a minimum of 10 years before they can retire or resign, mere technicality, but posts in the Lords that will remain and amendment 3 would also impose an age restriction important regardless of whether or not their holders are of 65. We all hope that Members of the House of Lords in the Lords ought to have been included in the Bill. will want to undertake an active and lengthy role in the This debate is about considering resignation as we House, but my Bill introduces a straightforward, honourable might have done had we been able, as we ought to have statutory provision that allows those who no longer feel been, to look at it in the Committee of the whole able to serve in the House to resign. House. It is about ensuring that bits of the Bill are not Other hon. Members have already mentioned the there accidentally, but have at least been considered by reasons why Members may think that they are unable to this House, even if the House is not of my mind upon serve in the House. I do not want to go over the subject them, and about ensuring that any changes do not lead again, but on Second Reading we discussed at length to unintended consequences which, because of how the the very real distress that some noble Members feel Bill has come through, we have not had the opportunity when, because of personal circumstances, they are unable to consider in full. to give the full service that they themselves think membership of the Lords deserves. It would be unfair Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op): to remove for non-attendance a Member who had been I congratulate the hon. Member for North East Somerset in the House for less than 10 years, but suffered a (Jacob Rees-Mogg) on his speech. As ever, it was a terrible health problem or had become a full-time carer pleasure to listen to him, particularly because of his for a family member. Such a Member would seem to ability to recall what Disraeli said as though he had have been naughty, rather than to have been allowed to been there at the time. I disagree profoundly with most make a dignified and honourable resignation. It is not of the hon. Gentleman’s arguments, including the therefore appropriate to prevent somebody from resigning extraordinary one that a restoration of the hereditary if they make the difficult decision to do so, even though peerage could assist in improving social mobility, a they have not served for a minimum period. Peers may debate to which we may return on a future occasion. wish to resign for a variety of very personal reasons, I want to focus on the hon. Gentleman’s amendments 2 and I believe that it would be arbitrary and unfair to put and 3. One reason why the Bill was introduced by the in place such a limitation. hon. Member for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) and why it is supported by the Opposition is the ever-growing Amendment 4 would require two fellow peers to membership of the other place. The amendments propose witness a resigning peer’s notice. The normal legal to create a minimum period of 10 years before a Member practice is for most documents to be witnessed by one of the other place can resign. person, and I do not see how a fellow peer is better equipped to witness a notice than any responsible individual. The hon. Gentleman for North East Somerset said I note that the disclaimer of an hereditary peerage that there was a risk that someone granted a peerage under the requires only one signature, and membership of the other place might resign after a which I am sure my hon. Friend pondered at length day or two, or even a minute or two, but I must say that before he tabled his amendment. that is very unlikely. The likelier scenarios of a Member wishing to resign before the age of 65 or before being a Member for 10 years are exactly the circumstances Mr Nuttall: My hon. Friend refers to the witness mentioned by the hon. Gentleman towards the end of being any responsible person. With the greatest respect, his speech—illness, or a change in family or work the Bill does not say that; it simply says “a witness”. circumstances. On balance, it makes sense to retain the flexibility to allow Members of the other place to resign Dan Byles: My understanding of the Bill is that the for such reasons. witness would be a responsible person in the same 10.15 am manner as for other legal documents, which usually means a Member of Parliament, a doctor and so on. I In the middle of his speech, the hon. Gentleman very do not believe that the Bill needs additional safeguards entertainingly described people queuing to ask for peerages to ensure the effectiveness of resignation notices. Many —in other words, the numbers of people now desperate very important legal documents and other matters involving to get into the other place. Yet, his amendments 2 and 3 this House take such an approach, and there is no assume that many Members will, once appointed, suddenly reason for a stricter requirement on this matter. be desperate to get out of it. I am not convinced that that is very likely. He has certainly made an intelligent Amendment 6 would confirm that once resignation case for his amendments, but he has not persuaded me has taken effect, it cannot be rescinded. I am a little to support them, and I therefore urge the House to hazy, but that implies that peers could change their oppose them. mind until the resignation takes effect. Submitting a signed and properly witnessed notice is a significant Dan Byles (North Warwickshire) (Con): I thank my step, and peers would be fully aware of the effect of hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset doing so. It would not be right to enable peers to submit (Jacob Rees-Mogg) for the way he expressed his concerns such a notice lightly, safe in the knowledge that they about the Bill, and for tabling the amendments, because could withdraw it up until it takes effect. My Bill aims that has given us the opportunity to discuss some very to be straightforward and simple, and adding such a important issues. It is crucial to get such a Bill right, nuance would over-complicate it. 533 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 534

Jacob Rees-Mogg: The Bill simply states that the Mr Nuttall: The amendments that have been tabled notice must for today’s debate and in Committee have demonstrated “specify a date from which the resignation is to take effect”. that, as I said on Second Reading, the Bill would have That could be any date in the future. There is no benefited from being dealt with as a constitutional Bill, requirement that it be no more than a month or six as I believe it is, and debated on the Floor of the House months from the date of the notice being issued. That at every stage. Nevertheless, we are where we are and I leaves a period in which it is perfectly reasonable to rise to support the amendments tabled by my hon. think that circumstances could change such that the Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob notice might be withdrawn. Rees-Mogg). Dan Byles: I now understand my hon. Friend’s concern Having said that, amendments 2 and 3 are alternatives, better, but I still disagree. For the reasons that he has so I express my preference for amendment 3. I do so given, I believe it is a serious step for a Member to take because the average age of a peer, as of August last year, the decision to leave. One change that we made in was 70 so most peers are over the age of 65 and would Committee was to say that a Member who decides to meet that qualification. As my hon. Friend said in retire or resign may not subsequently be reappointed to proposing the amendment, when someone is appointed the House of Lords. We did that for the very reasons as a life peer, it is reasonable to assume that they will that he has given. Sitting in the House of Lords is a take on that responsibility for the rest of their life. It is lifetime commitment and it should not be the norm to therefore entirely reasonable to expect them not to want leave. One should not leave with the expectation that to retire during the first 10 years—a fairly modest one may simply waltz back in later. When a Member period that is equivalent to two fixed-term Parliaments. decides to submit a notice stating that they wish to I listened carefully to what my hon. Friend the Member leave, it would not be helpful if they could think, “I can for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles), the promoter of always change my mind before it comes into effect.” the Bill, said about the situations that might arise. I Perhaps my hon. Friend and I must agree to disagree on accept that there might be occasions when, sadly, someone that issue. wishes to leave the other place because they have caring Amendment 7 would exempt unelected hereditary responsibilities. However, my hon. Friend will be aware peers from disqualification under the Bill. The two that there is already a voluntary retirement scheme in peers who would be exempted from disqualification, the the other place, which allows Members to write to the Lord Chamberlain and the Lord Marshal, undertake Clerk of the Parliaments to indicate their wish permanently various ceremonial duties in the House of Lords. I do to retire. Indeed, some Members of the other House not believe that either officer should retain their seat in have taken advantage of that scheme, so methods already the House of Lords if they wish to resign or if they are exist that enable Members to leave the other House convicted of a criminal offence. I am of the view that it before 10 years have elapsed. would not be possible for those officers to undertake their duties in the House and elsewhere if they were in Amendment 4 relates to witnesses. My hon. Friend custody for more than a year. I am confident that if that the Member for North Warwickshire said that he would situation arose, the Government, in conjunction with expect a witness to be a doctor or a solicitor. I submit the Palace, would put in place appropriate and effective that unless the Bill states that a specific qualification is measures to ensure that the functions of the officer were expected of a witness, a court will not impose such a executed properly while they were in custody. I do not restriction. A court might expect a witness to be an believe that Members of the House of Lords should be adult, although even that is debatable, but it would able to retain their seats if they are safely convicted of a place no other special requirement on who could or serious criminal offence. I certainly do not believe that should be a witness. peers should enjoy the privilege of being exempt from that. I therefore do not support amendment 7, although I think that, as a minimum, the witness should know I understand why my hon. Friend the Member for the peer in question. The great advantage of amendment 4 North East Somerset felt the need to raise and discuss is that, by specifying that the notice must be witnessed the issue. by two other peers, one could reasonably expect that Amendments 8 and 9 would allow the heir of a they would know the peer who has signed the document. retiring hereditary peer to take part in the by-election The reason we specify in legislation that a document caused by their parent’s retirement and elevate the must be witnessed is so that, if the document is questioned, retiring peer to the status of viscount. It would be a court can be reassured that the person who signed it entirely wrong for this Bill to change the current position did so of their own free will and was of sound mind. A whereby e not given an automatic right to enter the witness could give evidence as to the person’s state of House of Lords. I would not want to support such a mind when they signed the document. controversial amendment, because the Bill seeks to As the Bill is drafted, the peer could get anyone they make straightforward and sensible changes to the wanted to witness the document. The problem with membership of the House of Lords. However, this is a witnesses is that, when a document is called into question, fascinating debate that might take place in other it is very often because there is some doubt about the circumstances. Under the Bill, departing peers will retain intention of the person who signed it. Usually that is their peerage. I therefore do not agree that those who because there has been foul play and somebody has put retire should be elevated automatically to viscount status, forward a document that is not what it purports to be. nor that they should be entitled to any additional In such a case, if there is a squiggle from the witness, honour simply because they have been a Member of how can the person who made that squiggle of a the House of Lords, so I do not support amendments 8 signature be called to give evidence? and 9. 535 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 536

Jacob Rees-Mogg: I wonder whether my hon. Friend remaining amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the recalls the Agatha Christie book “Why Didn’t They Member for North East Somerset, and I commend Ask Evans?”, in which the heart of the matter is who them to the House. the witness was. The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Greg Clark): It Mr Nuttall: My hon. Friend makes a good point. is a pleasure to respond to the amendments tabled by Without being able to find the witness and ascertain my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset who they are, the existence of their signature is not (Jacob Rees-Mogg). He is in the happy difficulty that much help to a court. his contributions undermine his arguments. He purports that it is necessary to have wisdom, learning and erudition, 10.30 am or to be possessed of a grey beard, or at least flowing Dan Byles: The idea that there would be an illegible grey locks. I do not know whether he would fit his own squiggle and that nobody would know whose it was is a description of a scribbling youth, but he is a youthful bit fanciful. There are not many other legal documents Member of the House, yet every time he speaks he does for which we set out in primary legislation a requirement so with a depth of wisdom, learning and reflection on to include a name, address, social security number and these matters that rather undermines his case. However, so on. It needs to be properly witnessed, but I am not it is a delight to have him move these amendments this convinced that a big problem with the Bill will be that morning. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member we will end up with false witnesses and people trying to for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) for his skill in squeeze out other peers. I accept the spirit in which my steering the Bill to this stage of proceedings, which is hon. Friend makes his point, but it is not likely to be a relatively unusual for a private Member’s Bill, especially particularly major problem. in this area. My hon. Friend the Member for Bury On whether a peer might be of sound mind when North (Mr Nuttall) brought the usual stringent scrutiny making the statement, we are talking about people who to these matters that we always count on him for, and it at the moment are entitled to vote on legislation for this is right for these issues to be closely examined. country. I do not think we should call into question Amendments 2 and 3 would require a peer to serve whether they might be able to indicate legitimately that 10 years in the House before they can retire, and they wish to resign or retire. amendment 3 adds an age requirement of 65. I completely understand and agree with the desire of my hon. Friend Mr Nuttall: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that the Member for North East Somerset to ensure that intervention, but the Bill’s draftsmen included a requirement noble Lords in the upper Chamber play a full and for a witness so they must have intended that witness to lengthy role—indeed, the term “life peerage” is, as he have a purpose, so what is that purpose? Surely the correctly pointed out, significant in that respect. Peers purpose of the witness, if there is a purpose, must be to should not come into Parliament for the legislative give evidence to a court as to the identity of the person equivalent of a weekend break; they are here to serve who executed the document, and about their state of the country for the of their life, and I am mind and their position when they signed it. I accept concerned that they should take their commitment to that it may be the will of the House that such evidence the House seriously. can be given properly by someone without their having a special qualification. However, given the importance The purpose of clause 1 is to ensure a mechanism of such a document in the constitutional affairs of this that entitles peers, who take seriously their responsibilities, country, I would have thought it reasonable to require to act with honesty and honour by reflecting the witnesses at the very least to have some form of legal circumstances in which they may no longer find it training in order to assess these matters and properly possible to answer the summons, and to discharge that give evidence in court. responsibility. My hon. Friends the Members for North East Somerset and for Bury North were right to point Leaving that aside, my hon. Friend’s amendment out that mechanisms such as leave of absence or simply would go some way to dealing with the matter. Two not turning up are available to people who find themselves peers would indeed be able to give good evidence to a unable to attend and respond to the summons, but the court about the identity of the person who signed the essence of the Bill is to recognise that, in some circumstances, document, and state that the person was who they such mechanisms are deficient and do not provide an purported to be, but whenever a witness is required to accurate reflection of reality. For some people, a leave sign a document, there should be a requirement—as an of absence is not temporary but involves, in effect, a absolute minimum—not just to sign it but to state permanent inability to perform the duties that are entailed legibly their full name and present address. They can in membership of the upper House. then be found if necessary, and contacted to give evidence to a court about the circumstances in which that document As my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire was signed. said, such circumstances can be deeply personal or the Amendment 7 demonstrates the great dangers that in result of poor health that is unlikely to improve. Members tinkering with the unwritten British constitution. I often of the other place could be in the service of others, or describe the constitution as a delicate flower, and when have family circumstances that require them to move we start to unpick it and tinker with one aspect of it, away permanently. To recognise that, there should not unintended consequences inevitably flow from the proposed be any device; a straightforward declaration that someone’s changes. We saw that some years ago when it was service is no longer possible to be discharged is right proposed that the office of be abolished. and appropriate. It suddenly became apparent, after a relatively short The Government’s view is that an arbitrary 10-year time, that it was not quite that simple, and the office period during which resignation or retirement could not remains to this day. For that reason, I support the be tendered is inappropriate and could cause distress to 537 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 538

[Greg Clark] that they had the ability to withdraw it at any point. It is always a good principle in life, whether in this House or peers who find themselves in the circumstances that I beyond, that if someone threatens to resign, they should have described during that initial 10 years. Like the have in mind carrying out that threat. The ability to shadow Minister, I do not believe that it is likely that a deploy the threat of resignation without the consequence great flood of Members will avail themselves of this of following it through could introduce a degree of option in the first 10 years, but it may be appropriate brinksmanship into proceedings that I know my hon. and necessary in some circumstances. Friend in particular would be keen to avoid. Amendment 4 would require two fellow peers to It is right that providing a written and witnessed witness a peer’s notice of resignation. Admirably, the notice of resignation should be taken very seriously. It Bill is as simple as it is possible to be in its drafting and is not something that should be considered lightly, and its promotion by my hon. Friend the Member for North peers should undertake it in full knowledge of the Warwickshire. To have a signature witnessed seems a implications. It is not right that someone should be able proportionate requirement of the legislation. My hon. to go back on that notice of resignation, even if it has Friend the Member for Bury North is a scourge of the not taken effect. Government on over-regulating, gold-plating or other excesses in legislation, but his support for the amendment Two very eminent peers would be exempted takes him in a different direction. There is no particular from disqualification under the amendment—the Lord reason to suppose that the witness chosen by a peer Chamberlain and the Earl Marshal—both of whom should be suspected of incompetence so that they require carry out important official duties in the House of another witness to witness the witness to the signature. Lords. As my hon. Friend the Member for North East In fact, it is possible to see an infinite regress, with Somerset said in moving his amendment—and as my further witnesses being necessary in case the reliability hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire also of the earlier witnesses is not sufficiently established. It mentioned—the Lord Chamberlain is the senior official would be disproportionate, and Occam’s razor should of the royal household and represents the involvement of be applied to this theoretical problem, so that we take the household and Her Majesty in the organisation the simpler solution. of the affairs of Parliament. It is a very important channel of communication between the sovereign and Mr Nuttall: I do not think it has been suggested that the House of Lords. The Earl Marshal is the eighth the second peer is witnessing the signature of the first great officer of state and is responsible for several peer: it is simply that both peers are witnessing the ceremonial duties, including the organisation of coronations, event. It is not a continuum of peers. We are not trying state funerals and the state opening of Parliament. The to suggest that the second witnessing peer authenticates importance of those duties is such that the Government the first witnessing peer. Both of them are simply witnessing do not believe that either officeholder requires a seat in the first peer. Perhaps right my hon. Friend would care the House of Lords in order to discharge them, for the to comment on the point that I made about including very good reason that my hon. Friend the Member for the address and printed name of the witnesses, because North East Somerset mentioned—they are not, as that would be very useful. individuals, immune from prosecution at the moment. It is almost impossible to contemplate the eventuality, Greg Clark: I take my hon. Friend’s point, but the but it is possible in theory that they could be incarcerated, need for the second witness—if they are to have any and it is inconceivable that arrangements could not be purpose at all—must be something to do with the first made for a coronation or state opening of Parliament witness not being sufficient. If one witness is not sufficient, during such terrible circumstances. It is not necessary to why should two witnesses be sufficient? We could be have the clarification that my hon. Friend suggests. drawn in that direction. In order to witness a document, it is necessary that Jacob Rees-Mogg: The amendment would merely the witness—through the case law that has been exempt the officeholders from the ability to retire or established—should be identifiable. They will need to resign. If they cannot resign as Lord Chamberlain and disclose their identity, and that means that they should Earl Marshal, it makes no sense for them to be able to be capable of being found if recourse to them is needed resign as Members of the House of Lords. I was trying in the event of any proceedings or challenge. So there is to bring the two together. no requirement for any additional safeguard in this case. Greg Clark: I understand my hon. Friend’s point, but it is relevant that they should be subject to the same 10.45 am procedures as would apply under the Bill to every Amendment 6 would ensure that, once a resignation Member of the House of Lords, whether through has taken effect, it cannot be rescinded, the implication resignation—and the same circumstances might apply being that circumstances might change—as my hon. to them in wishing to resign—or through being convicted Friend the Member for North East Somerset pointed of a serious criminal offence. The points that my hon. out—and the peer might want to change his mind about Friend the Member for North Warwickshire made in resignation. While I have great sympathy for the thought response to that capture the essence of the argument. It behind the amendment, it raises a difficult and troublesome is not appropriate to permit peers on the basis on which possibility. It would introduce the threat of resignation. they hold their seats to remain in the House if they are It would be possible for a peer in dispute with, say, the convicted of a serious criminal offence or if they want Government of the day or the leadership of the House to exercise—they are under no obligation to do so—the of Lords, to postdate a resignation in the knowledge opportunity to retire. 539 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 540

My hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset Clause 3 raised a question about whether a writ of advancement should be available in the case of hereditary peers. CONVICTION OF SERIOUS OFFENCE There is no reason why a writ of advancement should not be available, but it is worth noting that if a hereditary Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): peer disclaims his or her peerage under the Peerage Act I beg to move amendment 1, page 2, line 23, leave out 1963, there is no advancement for his or her heir while ‘one year’ and insert ‘6 months’. the disclaiming peer is still alive. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it Amendments 8 and 9 would ensure that the heir of a will be convenient to discuss the following: retiring hereditary peer could participate in the by-election caused by his or her parent’s retirement. My hon. Amendment 12, page 2, line 24, leave out ‘it is irrelevant’. Friend’s ingenious suggestion of an improvement in Amendment 13, page 2, line 25, after ‘(a)’, insert ‘it is social mobility by elevating a retiring peer to the status irrelevant’. of a viscount is also contained in the amendments. I Amendment 14, page 2, line 27, after ‘(b)’, insert ‘it is have some difficulty with the amendments, as I am sure irrelevant’. my hon. Friend would imagine. The name of our venerable upper chamber is the House of Lords, not the house of Amendment 15, page 2, line 28, leave out from ‘Kingdom’ heirs. It would be wrong to break with the tradition of to the end of line 29 and insert ‘or ’. hundreds of years to allow heirs to enter the Chamber Amendment 16, page 2, line 29, at end insert— just because their father or mother had retired from ‘(c) It is irrelevant subject to a resolution of the House of their role in the House. Lords whether any of the offence, conviction, sentence, order, imprisonment or detention occurs in My hon. Friend made it clear that he recognised the any Commonwealth Realm. difference between attendance and membership of the (d) It is irrelevant subject to a unanimous resolution of the House of Lords and the peerage. His amendment, House of Lords whether any of the offence, however, would introduce a novel constitutional concept conviction, sentence, order, imprisonment or of the kind that he is generally inclined to view with a detention occurs in any Commonwealth country. certain degree of scepticism. I think that, just like any (e) No offence, conviction, sentence, order, imprisonment hereditary peer who, extraordinarily, continues to enjoy or detention that takes place in any non- a right to sit in the legislature, those heirs should wait Commonwealth country is relevant under this Act.’. until they have been elevated to the peerage as their Amendment 17, page 2, line 37, after ‘appeal’, insert forefathers did. ‘or is pardoned’. Amendment 18, page 3, line 8, leave out ‘subsection (9) As for the question of the elevation of retiring peers and insert— to the status of viscount, I do not see the need to provide for such a possibility, given that we are talking ‘(9) This section does not apply to unelected hereditary peers about membership of the House of Lords rather than who sit in the House of Lords.’. about the peerage itself. As I said earlier, my hon. Amendment 23, page 3, line 8, leave out subsection (9) Friend has advanced an ingenious argument for social and insert— mobility. He has anticipated the objection that the ‘(9) A certificate under subsection (2) in respect of a ratcheting up to the level of royal dukedoms might conviction outside the United Kingdom may be issued only if the cause a problem for Her Majesty. In any event, I should House of Lords resolves that subsection (1) should apply; and have thought that before embarking on such an approach, where the House does so resolve the Lord Speaker must issue the one would need to be assured of the consent of Her certificate.’. Majesty, as the fount of all honour and dignity, and to have discussed the issues with Garter King of Arms. I Thomas Docherty: I am in august company today. It do not know whether my hon. Friend has done those is excellent to be in the presence of the hon. Member for things. North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), a fine example of the Conservative workers party if ever I saw one. I fully appreciate the attention that my hon. Friends However, I must chide him very gently about one matter, have given to both the Bill and the amendments, but I about which I have already spoken to him. do not think that any of the amendments is necessary to Both the hon. Gentleman and I serve on the Procedure safeguard the purposes of the Bill from unintended Committee. The House recently resolved that, whenever consequences, and—as I hope I have been able to reasonable, Members should publish explanatory demonstrate—in many instances they would have statements. The hon. Member for North Warwickshire unintended consequences of their own that would damage (Dan Byles) has published such a statement, but I have the Bill. I therefore urge my hon. Friend to withdraw his not, because, as the hon. Member for North East Somerset amendment. knows, the Procedure Committee said that it was not necessary to publish one when what a Member was trying to achieve was so blindingly obvious. However, I Jacob Rees-Mogg: I have listened enormously carefully must gently tell the hon. Gentleman that it took me to what has been said by my hon. Friend the Member several attempts to understand exactly what his amendments for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles), the hon. Member would do, and that an explanatory statement would for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg) and my therefore have been useful. right hon. Friend the Minister. I have the impression that the mood of the House is against my proposals, Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am shocked that the hon. Gentleman and I therefore beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. is so slow on the uptake. I always thought that he was Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. one of the faster thinkers on the Opposition Benches. If 541 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 542

[Jacob Rees-Mogg] Jacob Rees-Mogg: I hope that the hon. Gentleman will forgive me for being pedantic. Members of the he waits for a few moments, however, and if you are House of Commons who are given prison sentences are kind enough to call me, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will not disqualified from serving; they are expelled from explain all. the House, but they can stand again in a by-election.

Thomas Docherty: I am most grateful, Mr Deputy Thomas Docherty: As ever, the hon. Gentleman has Speaker. shown that his knowledge is superior to mine. He is Let me begin by saying something about my absolutely right. My point was that such people would amendment 1. The origin of the requirement—in this be denied the right to be a Member of Parliament for a place, and, indeed, in the United Kingdom’s other period. Parliaments and Assemblies—for someone to have been There is, of course, a huge difference between the given a jail sentence of more than a year to be disqualified length of a sentence that would be received by someone is almost accidental. The hon. Member for North East who had engaged in political protest and the length of Somerset will correct me if I am wrong, but I understand the sentences that have been received in some of the that until the 1960s there were two classes of criminal cases that we have—regrettably—seen in recent years, in acts, felonies and misdemeanours. I think that it was this Parliament and in other United Kingdom Parliaments Roy Jenkins who, as Home Secretary, abolished the and Assemblies. There was, for instance, the outrageous distinction. Until then, someone who was convicted of case of Chris Huhne, who perjured himself, and Opposition a felony would automatically be disqualified from serving Members in the House of Commons as well as in the House of Commons. Thankfully, it had been a Conservatives in the other place have been jailed in long time since any Member had been sent to prison, so connection with expenses. I think that there was a great the rule had fallen into desuetude, and, at the time when deal of genuine public revulsion at the idea that politicians the classes of felony and misdemeanour were scrapped, in either House, or indeed in any House, would be it did not occur to anyone to introduce a provision for convicted of serious crimes and go to prison, but would that purpose. not necessarily have to resign their seats or be disqualified. Let us now fast-forward to 1981, and the election of The case that made me such a champion of reform in Bobby Sands as a member of Sinn Fein in Northern this regard arose in the Scottish Parliament, in my own Ireland. His election understandably prompted a great constituency of Dunfermline. The local nationalist MSP, deal of public outrage, and the Government of day, Mr Bill Walker, was convicted last August of 22 accounts Mrs Thatcher’s Government, introduced a law providing of domestic abuse and one charge of breaking a frying for the disqualification of anyone who had been given a pan over his stepdaughter’s head—which serves to sentence of more than a year. That would have caught demonstrate the scale of the violence he was showing to Bobby Sands, and the other terrorists who were on a group of women over a 20 or 30-year period. I praise hunger strike in the Maze prison. Again, no one really the Sunday Herald, which did so much to bring this thought about it at the time. As far as I can ascertain story to light. Owing to the way in which the Scottish after having consulted the records from the period, courts work, the maximum sentence that Bill Walker there was not a great deal of consideration about whether could receive—and did receive—was one year, so he a year and a day was a particularly suitable target. The was not automatically disqualified from serving in the provision was designed to capture a very specific group Scottish Parliament, and if he had been a Member of of people; it met that test, and it was therefore passed. the House of Commons, he would not have been automatically disqualified from serving in this House. As I think all Members know, there is a long and noble tradition of the right to protest, and, in particular, I welcome the recent statement from the Leader of to engage in political protest. Anyone who visits the Tea the House that he is interested in starting a dialogue Room will see a painting hanging at the Labour end of about the rules of the House of Commons and I hope the room. If Government Members wish to pop down the Minister will set out the Government’s broader to our end to have a look at it, they are more than thinking about the rules of disqualification and whether welcome to do so. It depicts one of the great protesters or not we need to look at this again. and pamphleteers of the 18th century, who was regularly incarcerated for speaking out against the Government. 11 am It is an important principle that we should maintain the Mr Nuttall: The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the right to speak against the Government, and that there report of the Political and Constitutional Reform should be protections against politically motivated arrests Committee that looked into these matters. It was happy and imprisonments. We would not want someone who with the proposal as it stands, and there was no suggestion was simply sent to jail to be disqualified. Many of my that the period should be six months. Would he like to constituents have talked to me about this issue, for comment on that? reasons that I shall explain shortly. While I strongly disagree with the views of the hon. Thomas Docherty: Indeed, and I have had a brief Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) on chat with the Committee Chair, my hon. Friend the fracking and, funnily enough, on many other issues, I Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen). As I recall, respect her right to engage in political protest and to be the report that the hon. Gentleman is referring to arrested, and, if she were convicted and sentenced to a addressed the broader context of the recall of MPs, and few days, it would be absolutely wrong for her then to from what I can ascertain from the newspapers, I think be disqualified from serving in the House of Commons. it is fair to say that that option is now off the table. If we The voters in Brighton, Pavilion should have the chance were having a broader debate about recall, I could see to do that in 14 months’ time. the argument for keeping the period at a year and a day. 543 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 544

Mr Nuttall: I just want to make it clear that the report forward to hearing from the hon. Member for North I was referring to was the Committee’s ninth report of Warwickshire shortly, and I am sure the Minister will the current Session entitled “House of Lords reform: set out the Government’s thinking. what next?” May I again congratulate the hon. Member for North Warwickshire on introducing this Bill? There appears to Thomas Docherty: I was referring to the previous be some noble interest in our debate today, and it is look at the issue in the Committee’s recall report. perhaps worth placing on the record the fact that the Sometimes in our debates on a Friday Members say Bill is supported on both sides of the House. Lord Steel “We haven’t had many letters about this,” but I can truly deserves a great deal of credit for championing the issue say that I have had a large amount of correspondence in recent years. It is possibly not as contentious as on the issue of what is an appropriate disqualification legislation he previously introduced when he was a period. On this occasion, I disagree with my hon. Friend Member of this House, but it is certainly an important the Committee Chairman. I think there is genuine Bill and I hope it makes it through both Houses and public disquiet at the idea that someone can receive becomes law. what is frankly quite a lengthy jail sentence yet continue to serve in Parliament, creating laws. Dan Byles: I am very grateful to the hon. Member for There is an obvious question which I am sure will be Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) for posed to me: why do I propose to make the situation for introducing his amendment, because we should regularly the House of Lords different from that for the House of revisit and discuss what the correct length of time Commons? If a Member of the House of Commons should be. I took the trouble to look up in Hansard receives a jail sentence—of nine months, let us say—and what was said in 1981 when the Representation of the tries to tough it out, the electorate still has an opportunity People Act was debated. Lord Belstead made it clear at the next general election to remove them from office. that it was a pretty arbitrary decision to pick 12 months. As things currently stand, however, in the House of He said that the Government did not Lords there is no term limit and therefore no other “rely exclusively on the precedent of 12 months in the 1870 Act. mechanism for recall. I believe there is merit in exploring We felt—I admit this quite openly—that it would be more likely whether the period set should be shorter, because the than not that persons in the category of those who had received people of Britain do not have an opportunity to remove sentences of more than 12 months had committed graver offences a Member of the House of Lords who tries to tough it and that no injustice would be done by imposing a out. disqualification.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 30 June 1981; Vol. 422, c. 143.] Regrettably, a small number of Members of the House of Lords, on both sides of the political divide, However, I disagree with the hon. Gentleman about the have gone to prison in recent years, and each time it idea that we should have different limits for the House happened there was genuine anger and people said, of Lords, the House of Commons, the Scottish Parliament “Why is there nothing we can do to remove them?” I and so on. He has certainly made an eloquent case that hope that today we will tease out the Government’s we should perhaps routinely reassess the level across the thinking on whether these rules are appropriate and board, but I do not think that at present more stringent whether there is merit in asking, “Due to the unique rules should be imposed on the House of Lords than we nature of the House of Lords—there is no democratic have in this place. For that reason, I am afraid I will not mechanism—should there be the same procedure?” be supporting the hon. Gentleman’s amendment. Turning to the broader issue, it appears that the hon. Turning to some of the other amendments in the Members for North Warwickshire and for North East group, Amendments 12 to 14 are drafting amendments Somerset take slightly different approaches. The hon. that remove the words “it is irrelevant” from the start of Member for North Warwickshire has, I think, managed the subsection in question, but then include them twice to achieve all that the hon. Member for North East within the body of the subsection. They are, in my view, Somerset wants, but does it in a single amendment. Far unnecessary. be it for me to get in the middle of an argument in the Amendments 15 and 16 deal with convictions in the workers party about what is the correct approach, but it United Kingdom and abroad. This has been a controversial seems to me that this is a debate about whether it is issue. Amendment 15 would make disqualification on appropriate to have to take a positive step following a the ground of a conviction of a serious offence in the conviction in a foreign court or whether our starting United Kingdom or Ireland automatic. Amendment 16 point should be that we regard foreign courts as having would make disqualification on the ground of a conviction sensible judicial processes and only in exceptional of a serious offence in any Commonwealth realm subject circumstances would we seek not to abide by their to a resolution of the House of Lords, and in any recommendations. I hope that this is a rare technical Commonwealth country subject to a unanimous resolution argument. of the House. It would prevent peers from being removed I have to say that I have more sympathy with the from the House if they were convicted of a serious original view of the hon. Member for North Warwickshire. offence outside the United Kingdom, Ireland or any I would find it slightly disconcerting if our starting Commonwealth realm or country. I believe that I have point were, “We don’t believe a court in Germany, or in interpreted that correctly. Canada or Australia, has due legal process.” Of course The purpose of my Bill is to make straightforward, there are countries around the world that do not have small-scale changes to the membership of the House of the same legal history as us, but I have more sympathy Lords, and I purposely avoided over-complicating the with the view put forward originally by the hon. Member clauses. To make such small distinctions between countries for North Warwickshire than I do with the view proposed is unnecessary and not something that I believe many of by the hon. Member for North East Somerset. I look our colleagues would support. 545 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 546

Thomas Docherty: Does the hon. Gentleman share convictions on a case-by-case basis and subsequently my disquiet that we could be creating an artificial divide disqualify a Member. It seems to me that the House of by saying that Commonwealth countries have a more Lords should be given the same opportunity. robust judicial system than, say, European countries or My amendment 23 would make disqualification on the United States? I believe that the Foreign Office is the ground of a conviction for a serious offence abroad troubled by the judicial process in some Commonwealth non-automatic. Instead, the House of Lords would countries. need to resolve that the penalty should apply in each case. This would provide a sensible mechanism by which Dan Byles: I would agree with the hon. Gentleman on noble Lords could assure themselves that the conviction that. My heart entirely understands the distinction in and sentencing were safe and met British perceptions of the amendments between the Commonwealth and justice before disqualifying Members. I will therefore be elsewhere, but my head says that it is difficult to justify pressing this amendment and I urge the House to the suggestion that countries such as Germany and support it. France, for example, should be put into a different category from some members of the Commonwealth. Stephen Twigg: I rise to speak to the amendment, I presume that the amendment that would make the but, on reflection, Mr Deputy Speaker, I wonder whether application of the provision automatic in the case of it might be more appropriate for the hon. Member for convictions in the Republic of Ireland is designed to North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) to speak first, emulate more closely the Representation of the People followed by the two Front-Bench speakers. I am happy Act 1981. However, we all know that that legislation to do it in that order. was enacted during the troubles in order to deal with the unique circumstances of that time, and incorporating Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I call Jacob the same provision in my Bill is therefore unnecessary. Rees-Mogg. In addition, I object to the assertion that it is permissible for a peer to commit a serious crime anywhere other Jacob Rees-Mogg: North East Somerset, in the great than in the United Kingdom, the Republic of Ireland county of Somerset, is always ready. We are on alert for and the Commonwealth, and not to face sanction here whatever might come. I am fortunate in that my for it. Allowing peers to do so and to retain their seats constituency is not under water, so it is perhaps easier would damage the reputation of the House of Lords, for me to be alert than those in the rest of the county at and my Bill seeks to achieve the opposite. I believe that the moment. peers who are fairly convicted of offences that are regarded as serious within the United Kingdom should 11.15 am be disqualified if the House so resolves, which is why I am tabling my own amendment to that effect. I will The real problem with the exclusion of peers for speak to that amendment in a moment. criminal offences is that, in 1948, they gave up the right to try themselves for felonies. That had been an ancient, Amendment 17 would put a duty on the Lord Speaker historic right that they had used from time to time; we to issue an additional certificate if a peer were pardoned perhaps know it best from “Kind Hearts and Coronets”. following conviction for a serious offence, to confirm The last case, in 1935, involved Lord de Clifford, who that fact. The impact of a free pardon is that the person was found guilty of manslaughter following a motoring is cleared from all consequences of the offence and accident. Their lordships judged him not to have been from all statutory or other disqualifications following guilty, on the ground that the other driver had been conviction. If a peer who has been disqualified on the going too fast. ground of a conviction for a serious offence is then A previous case, in 1901, involved , who pardoned, the effect of that would be to remove the was found guilty of bigamy and sentenced to three disqualification. The amendment is therefore unnecessary. months in prison. He was found guilty because he had Amendment 23 has been tabled in my name, and got divorced in Nevada, and their lordships did not I have given a great deal of thought to this matter. I think that Nevada was a proper place in which to get a believe that anyone convicted of murder or any serious divorce. They decided that it was not valid, and that he offence, whether in Bolton, Belgium or Brunei, should was therefore a bigamist. That leads me to my suggestion be subject to disqualification from the House of Lords. that we do not always take the views of foreign courts However, we all agree that criminal justice systems in into account, and that they do not necessarily have different countries vary, and of course other jurisdictions standing in the United Kingdom. Poor old Earl Russell sometimes try people in very different circumstances was known to his contemporaries as the wicked Earl. I from those in which they would be tried in the United am allowed to say that, Mr Deputy Speaker, because he Kingdom. In addition, some countries impose lengthy is not still alive. I am allowed to say disrespectful things sentences on individuals for actions that might be deemed about wicked who are no longer with us. to be minor offences, or not offences at all, in this country. Mr Deputy Speaker: I know that the hon. Gentleman I have listened carefully to those who spoke on this has great knowledge of these matters. He will know that issue on Second Reading and I have given the matter a he is allowed to mention such people as long as they are great deal of consideration. I have also looked carefully not Members of the House of Lords. at what happens in this House, where only sentencing and imprisonment that takes place in the UK and Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am extremely grateful to you, Ireland result in automatic disqualification. Of course, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am also rather troubled, because this House has the inherent power to disqualify whomsoever that means that I can be rude about hereditaries who it chooses and can therefore choose to consider foreign are not in the House of Lords. That would be deeply 547 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 548 upsetting, however, and I would be shocked if I did such incident by naming the countries, I am sure we can a thing. Anyway, the point about Nevada was that a think of a number of Commonwealth countries where judgment made there was not considered to be authoritative. the judiciary, perhaps at a state level rather than at federal or national level, is less than it could be. Does he Thomas Docherty: Will the hon. Gentleman confirm accept that is a concern? that this would not apply to members of the who had been sitting in the House of Lords as Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman hereditary dukes? for that intervention. At the moment, I am talking Jacob Rees-Mogg rose— about the Commonwealth realms and he himself said in his own speech that it would be peculiar if we did not Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. I think I can help the trust the judicial system of Canada. I happen to share hon. Gentleman on that: we are not going to enter into that view; there is no particular difficulty with Canadian a debate on the royal family. We are going to get back to justice. When we come to some of the smaller the subject that Jacob Rees-Mogg has in hand. Commonwealth realms, they have appeal to the Privy Council and that is the safeguard—that it becomes Jacob Rees-Mogg: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. essentially a British form of justice. In the end, a peer It is inconceivable that anyone would ever want to be would be able to appeal to a court based in this country. rude about the royal family. It is actually based in the Middlesex Guildhall; if you So, Nevada was not taken seriously and Earl Russell have a good arm, Mr Deputy Speaker, it is a stone’s was found guilty of bigamy. My amendments distinguish throw away from this palace. between the jurisdictions of a variety of foreign countries, With the Commonwealth realms, it is reasonable that and with good reason. The reason for including Ireland the House of Lords should be able to recognise a along with the United Kingdom is that it matches the conviction in one of them and it would then be able, by form used for exclusion from the House of Commons, an ordinary vote, to expel the peer from the Lords. That and there seems to be a logic in maintaining that. It is seems a perfectly reasonable approach, because one can also set down in statute that we recognise the unique have confidence in the justice that would be meted out relationship that the United Kingdom continues to have in those realms. In relation to other Commonwealth with Ireland. Irish citizens are the only ones other than countries, expulsion would require the unanimous Commonwealth citizens who are always allowed to vote agreement of the House of Lords. That is because there in United Kingdom elections, and travel from the Republic are certainly Commonwealth countries where one would of Ireland to the United Kingdom does not require a have some concern about the standard of justice that passport. Ireland is not viewed as a foreign country in applied and would worry that having an automatic the same way as other countries are. acceptance, or even a simple majority acceptance, of The Commonwealth realms are either serious nations their judgments would not necessarily be helpful. such as Australia, New Zealand and Canada that have a That relates to my broader question about other legal form based on ours and that follow the legal foreign courts. There are some Commonwealth countries traditions of the United Kingdom that they inherited where one can be imprisoned for a year for some quite them from us, or they are smaller nations, nine of which extraordinary things. I do not know whether you knew, have the Privy Council as their court of appeal. We can Mr Deputy Speaker, but if you should go on your therefore say that any conviction within the Commonwealth travels to Singapore representing the Houses of Parliament, realms will be of such standing that we can recognise it which would be a worthy trip for you to make, although because it has been made in a nation with which we Singapore is a great and civilised country—I am one of have the friendliest relations and the tightest of historical Lee Kuan Yew’s foremost admirers—it is illegal to links. connect to an unsecured wi-fi hot spot. It is classed as Thomas Docherty: I am seeking enlightenment. The “unauthorised use of computer service”, hon. Gentleman has mentioned “realms” a couple of it is punishable, for both Singapore nationals and tourists, times. If a Member of the House of Commons or the by a fine of up to 10,000 Singapore dollars and/or House of Lords were convicted of a crime in one of the imprisonment for up to three years. In 2006, a man Crown dependencies or the British overseas territories, called Garyl Tan Jia Luo received 18 months’ probation, would they automatically be disqualified? I truly do not nine months’ curfew, 80 hours of community service know the answer to that question. and an 18-month internet ban for use of an unsecured wi-fi hot spot. Jacob Rees-Mogg: They are not included in my amendment, although it would obviously be possible to Let us think of some young peer who travels to amend the Bill to bring the Crown dependencies in. I Singapore and accidentally connects to the wi-fi because am talking about the Commonwealth realms, which are he wants to read Hansard to find out what has been the independent nations in the Commonwealth of which going on in their lordships’ house or attend to other Her Majesty is still head of state. Nine of those nations matters of public business. If he is caught by the have appeal to the Privy Council, which is their final Singaporean police and if we accept judgments of foreign court of appeal. They therefore have a standard of courts he could get three years in prison and be disqualified justice in which we can have confidence, because it is a from the House of Lords. standard that we ourselves implement. Thomas Docherty: I am slightly troubled by the hon. Thomas Docherty: I am listening carefully. The hon. Gentleman’s argument, because he seems to be saying Gentleman has made an assertion a couple of times, that we have a right to look at other countries’ laws and both directly and in the round, that we have confidence say, “We think that’s a silly law.” Quite a lot of the in the Commonwealth judiciary. Without causing an world’s people drive on the wrong side of the road, but 549 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 550

[Thomas Docherty] There are also great countries—countries that we respect—that have a legal system about which we have we respect their right to do so when we go to their doubts. I will mention two of the friendliest and most countries. Should not that young lord have respected civilised countries that the United Kingdom has dealings the rights and laws of that land, and made himself with: the United States of America and Italy. familiar with them before he travelled there? In the United States of America, the noble Lord Black was basically told that he could either plead Jacob Rees-Mogg: I suggest that the hon. Gentleman guilty or face decades in prison if he was found guilty. visits Singapore; he will remember that people there There was a charge sheet against him as long as your drive on the correct side of the road. They know how to arm, and there was a witness to give evidence against do things there. It is a wonderful country. him. The witness was told, “If you plead guilty and turn Breaking obscure laws that it is unreasonable to the equivalent of Queen’s evidence, then we will give expect people to have knowledge of ought not to exclude you a few weeks in a country club.” That approach to people from the House of Lords. Uganda has been in plea bargaining ought to raise serious concerns. In this the news recently for its stringent laws against country, it would not be allowed. There is not the homosexuality. Are we really to say that peers who end possibility to say to somebody giving evidence, “We will up in Uganda and get into trouble with the law there give you something very cosy if you help us to find should be banned from the House of Lords? They somebody guilty”, and guilty not just of an offence but could get a life sentence. Is that really a way of deciding a whole string of offences with huge sentences, and all who is in a legislature of the United Kingdom? What in proportion to what was being alleged, so that people happens if a lord displays a flag in Kiribati? Someone are bullied into pleading guilty. The reason that America who displays a flag in Kiribati or wears a uniform in does that is that it has so many constitutional safeguards connection with a political object can be sentenced to a to provide for a fair trial that it is consequently very year in prison. Lords would suddenly be excluded for difficult to get convictions. Plea bargaining is therefore doing all sorts of minor things that in this country used as a means of getting the result that was sought in would not be an offence. the first place, but which the protections in place would Rather splendidly, in Swaziland it is illegal for any have made it hard to get. That form of justice should female under 19 to shake the hands of a man; I do not not determine who sits in the House of Lords. know what the punishment for that is. Under the Bill, a In the example of Italy, we see cases, and reports of peer could be convicted, regardless of when the offence cases come to us, of people being found guilty, not took place A 90-year-old peeress, who as a 19-year-old guilty and guilty again. In a British sense, that is not girl had shaken hands with a gentleman in Swaziland, justice; it does not observe the requirements of double could suddenly be deported to Swaziland, put in jug for jeopardy. I know that in exceptional circumstances those a year and excluded from the House of Lords. requirements can be got round in this country, but as a There is a tremendously serious point in this. It is that general rule the oppressive state cannot charge and around the world there are hundreds of countries. I recharge somebody once they have been found not have a list of them: Afghanistan; Albania; Algeria; guilty. Many foreign countries are also willing to try American Samoa; Andorra; Angola; Anguilla; Antigua people in absentia, so one does not even have the ability and Barbuda; Argentina; Armenia; Aruba; Australia; to defend oneself against the charge. Austria; and Azerbaijan. That just gets us to— Therefore, it seems to me that when we in this country are deciding how our Houses of Parliament should be Mr Deputy Speaker: Order. I think we got the message designed and who shall have entitlement to sit in them, after the first five. I do not want to hear the rest; I think foreign courts are not a valid place to determine we have a flavour, without a fully detailed world atlas. membership. That is the right of our sovereign and of the British people; it is not the right of courts outside Jacob Rees-Mogg: Mr Deputy Speaker, I think you this country. Consequently, I support the amendment are a mind reader. I was going to read out only the As, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for North so your intervention came at absolutely the right moment Warwickshire (Dan Byles), which turns things round. to help me to continue. We know remarkably little about many of those Thomas Docherty: The hon. Gentleman or the hon. countries. We have not carefully considered their legal Member for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) may correct systems. What is the law in American Samoa? What me if I get this wrong, but where someone does not offences could lead to somebody being sentenced to a attend for a parliamentary Session—a whole year—they year in prison? If a peer went there on a parliamentary are deemed to have been disqualified from serving in delegation, would they randomly find that they had the House of Lords. Someone who has been detained at committed some offence? What if somebody has a gin the pleasure of the Italian Government for two or three and tonic in Saudi Arabia? They may get lashed, but— years will not have been able to attend the House of Lords and will surely be disqualified on that basis. Thomas Docherty: One thing that I can point out to the hon. Gentleman that he probably should know 11.30 am about the “country” of Anguilla is that it is, in fact, an overseas territory and not a country. Jacob Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman is very ingenious, but he is wrong. Jacob Rees-Mogg: It is listed as a country. [Interruption.] But then Wales is a country and it is also part of the Dan Byles: Let me clarify this. That was a flaw in the United Kingdom. The hon. Gentleman’s pedantry is original drafting of the Bill, but in Committee we taking him down a blind alley, if I may say so. introduced a provision whereby the House of Lords has 551 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 552 the right to vote to disregard the clause removing peers raise this matter on Second Reading and I warmly through being absent in certain circumstances, to deal welcome the fact that the promoter of the Bill has with exactly the issue that the hon. Gentleman raises. responded with amendment 23, which intelligently addresses the concerns that have been raised. It says that Parliament Jacob Rees-Mogg: Indeed, on Second Reading we automatically will seek to protect peers but has the discussed what would happen to a prisoner of war and option of disqualifying. That reverses the original provision whether they would automatically be disqualified—the and it is an intelligent way of responding to the serious answer is, obviously, no. It would almost certainly be and proper concerns that the hon. Member for North possible for somebody held in a prison of a vaguely East Somerset has raised, both on Second Reading and civilised nation to apply to take leave of absence. So, on again today. both counts—either in the special circumstances or on I wish briefly to comment on the amendment proposed the leave of absence issue—the peer would not be forced by my hon. Friend the Member for Dunfermline and to resign. West Fife (Thomas Docherty), who also spoke about We should protect our own constitutional rights zealously. this issue in Committee. He rightly reminded the House We should not allow other places to interfere in how we today of the public revulsion at some of the crimes that run our business. The right way to go about it is set out have been committed, referring to the case of a particular in amendment 23, which achieves what I was aiming to MSP, the crimes of people from all sides of this House achieve and is pithier. It does not give any special status and also of some in the other place. He made an to the Commonwealth realms, which I was giving not interesting argument about why there could be a disparity particularly out of a sentimental attachment to them, between the 12-month limit here and a lower six-month but more because of the ability to appeal to the Privy limit in the other place because Members in this place Council and the safeguards that builds in. It ought to be are subject to re-election. That argument interests me the right of the House of Lords to expel people—this and it is food for thought as this debate moves forward. House has that right and it is unfortunate that the My instinct is the same as that of the hon. Member for House of Lords does not. It would be a good power for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles), which is that if we it to have as part of regulating its own affairs. It has the are to look to a lower limit, it would be preferable if we power to imprison peers but it does not have the power had a lower limit across the board. Like my hon. to expel them. However, it should use that expulsion Friend, I welcome the fact that the Leader of the House power only if it wants to do so; it should not be forced has said that we should open a dialogue on this issue as to do it because a foreign court has told it that it has to. it relates to the rules of the House of Commons. I was discussing the systems in America and Italy, My immediate recollection is that even where Members great nations with which we have the friendliest relations. of Parliament have been convicted of serious offences However, we do not understand—we are not party and sentenced for a period of less than 12 months they to—their legal systems. A British person accused in a do, generally speaking, resign. That has certainly been foreign country is often at a disadvantage to a national the case in relation to recent issues that arose from the accused in that country because they are not in sympathy expenses scandal. The only case I can think of in recent with the systems that will be used against them. Therefore, history where MPs did resume their seats—I stand to be having this protection whereby it must be an active corrected on this by Members from either side of the decision of the Lords to expel somebody convicted in a House—was where they were briefly sent to prison for foreign country will protect the peer arrested in Kiribati not paying the poll tax. I cannot think of any other for waving a flag or in Uganda for being homosexual or recent cases where a Member of Parliament has been in Singapore for using the internet unlawfully. It is imprisoned for a period of less than 12 months and absolutely right that a judgment can be made as to resumed their seat having come out of prison. There is a whether in our terms, under our law and under our case for us to examine the matter, but I do not think that rules a peer has done something so serious and manifestly this Bill is the right vehicle for us to do so. I therefore wrong that that right of peerage to sit in the House of hope that my hon. Friend, who has raised an important Lords should be removed or curtailed. I am glad that issue, will not press his amendment to a vote. my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire has introduced amendment 23, which has saved me from speaking at much greater length on this important Greg Clark: I am delighted to give the Government’s subject. response to this important set of amendments. We are very sympathetic to the reasoning behind amendment 1 Stephen Twigg: I congratulate the hon. Member for from the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) on, and thank (Thomas Docherty), but what his Front-Bench colleague him for, discussing his concerns about this issue on the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Second Reading. We have subsequently had the opportunity Twigg) has said pertains: any changes to our procedures to reflect on and consider the matter, and we see that he in the House of Commons in terms of the length of has made a powerful and persuasive case. I was going to imprisonment that would trigger disqualification and mention the anti-gay laws in Uganda to which he referred. expulsion are a matter for this House rather than this Tragically, similar laws have recently been in passed in Bill. I can confirm what the hon. Member for Dunfermline another Commonwealth country, Nigeria. So simply to and West Fife said about the Leader of the House rely upon the laws and legal systems of other countries having indicated that he is open to cross-party discussions is not sufficient and not proper in determining our own to consider these matters. In Committee the hon. Gentleman constitutional arrangements. As he says, even in countries was right to raise the situation of the Scottish Parliament, that have advanced legal systems and are our close which is of course beyond the scope of this House. The allies, such as the United States and Italy, there are Secretary of State for has given an undertaking, concerns in certain cases. So he was absolutely right to equivalent to that given by the Leader of the House, to 553 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 554

[Greg Clark] Amendment 17 on pardons adds a duty on the Lord Speaker to issue a further certificate if a Member is engage with the Scottish Government and the Presiding pardoned, following the conviction on a serious offence. Officer of the Scottish Parliament to discuss the position The effect of a free pardon is that the person is cleared pertaining to Scotland, which I know has particularly from all consequences of the offence, and from all exercised the hon. Gentleman and his constituents. statutory or other disqualifications following on from The thrust of the Bill is to bring the rules in the the conviction, although it does not remove the conviction House of Lords broadly into line with those of the itself. On that basis, if a peer who has been disqualified House of Commons, and that is done for a reasonable was then pardoned, the effect of the pardon would be purpose. There are lots of issues that this Bill could the removal of the disqualification, and it would be odd have taken on—there are lots of outstanding areas of if it were removed in the case of a successful appeal but contention about the reform of the House of Lords—but not of a free pardon. my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) is to be commended for n navigating a sure Jacob Rees-Mogg: Part of the reason for adding “or course between various possibilities that might distract is pardoned” was that the pardon might come from a the Bill and prevent its entering into safe harbour. This foreign court, and I do not think that the pardon from a issue is one such possibility, so the arguments as to foreign court would have any automatic effect in British whether the limit should be more or less than 12 months law in any other circumstances. is for another time. His proposal would bring the other place House into line with this House. 11.45 am Greg Clark: I understand and I am grateful for the Thomas Docherty: I welcome the spirit in which the clarification. Minister has set out the Government’s case. Does he think that, as has been put to me by a number of On amendment 23 tabled by my hon. Friend the organisations, we perhaps sometimes focus on the length Member for North Warwickshire and the point about of the tariff rather than the type of offence? Would the foreign convictions, the mood of the House is to Government consider that as part of the broader discussion acknowledge that criminal justice systems do vary from about what the appropriate tariffs for disqualification our own. Of course it is right to respect the differences, are? but it is equally true that in some cases, as my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset has ably drawn attention to, what is illegal in one country may Greg Clark: What I would say to the hon. Gentleman jar quite violently with a British sense of justice. The is that this is a matter for the House. The Leader of the issue of homosexuality has been mentioned in this House has agreed that discussions can be initiated on debate, and, regrettably, it is currently illegal to be this, and it is not for me to prescribe the content of homosexual in at least 77 countries. Under the Bill as it those discussions. However, as the suggestion was that stands, someone convicted of homosexuality in one of they should be cross-party, the hon. Gentleman has at those countries and sentenced to more than a year in least had the opportunity through his own party to prison would automatically lose their place in the House raise that matter. of Lords. The hon. Member for Dunfermline and West In amendments 12 to 14, my hon. Friend the Member Fife said that we should start with a presumption of for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) proposes upholding the authority of overseas courts. However, it moving the words “It is irrelevant” from the start of would be monstrous, even though the Bill would allow subsection (3) to the body of the subsection. He always their Lordships to overturn the penalty by dint of has an eye to elegance on paper as well as in verbal special circumstances, for even a temporary disqualification communication. I dare say that it was the aesthetics of of someone convicted of practising homosexuality in the drafting that caught his eye. one of those countries and for them to need to apply for relief from the consequence in the House of Lords. That would be a very retrograde step, and we should Jacob Rees-Mogg: Let me save my right hon. Friend not for a moment countenance such a temporary some trouble. My amendments were merely to make disqualification. sense of the changes to the Commonwealth realms and the Commonwealth to move the words from the Thomas Docherty: The Minister is being persuasive. introduction to the body of the subsection; otherwise, Does he not accept that in the House of Commons, the subsequent amendment would not work. under our rules in the Representation of the People Act 1981, we do not have a right to wait for an appeal? A Greg Clark: I understand the point now. I did think it Member is automatically disqualified once the judge was a rather more syntactical point, but I stand corrected. has passed sentence, and that is for more than a year As I took it from my hon. Friend’s speech that he had and a day. It is occasionally possible in the UK that our been persuaded by the arguments put by my hon. courts get it wrong, so why is he supporting a different Friend the Member for North Warwickshire and that rule for an overseas court than we have in a UK court? he was content with the simpler expression of the same intention, his amendments would not be required if my Greg Clark: The hon. Gentleman points out something hon. Friend’s amendment were made. As my hon. Friend that can, on occasion, be a source of regret in the has indicated that he is content with the amendment of procedures of this House. It does not follow from that my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire, I that we should introduce the greater possibility in the hope that he will consider it reasonable not to discuss other place through this Bill. I do not think that we his proposed equivalents in great detail. should contemplate that. 555 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 556

Jacob Rees-Mogg: Is it not the case that we cannot leave the Commons, go to the Lords, leave the Lords, allow an appeal when it refers to this House, because come back to the Commons and go back to the Lords the vacancy has to be filled, whereas in the other House again. I am glad to say that that was amended in there is no limit on the numbers? We have to have every Committee, which has at least to some degree ameliorated constituency represented, and we could not have two the situation. But there is a problem with the House of Members of Parliament, which could happen if someone Lords being changed into a place that can be used as a who was excluded was brought back. way of preparing people for political life before bringing them to the Commons. As more and more professional Greg Clark: My hon. Friend is quite right to explain politicians come through—I know this is a matter of the differences between the two Houses. That is why it is concern to the electorate—people can have the following right to focus on the fact that this is a Bill that proposes career path: becoming special advisers, going to the changes to the House of Lords. The Houses are not Lords and then coming to the Commons, without any identical in every respect, but my hon. Friend has been real pause in-between. As the Bill stands, it would be careful in restricting his Bill to the House of Lords and possible to resign a seat in the Lords immediately before to its procedures there. the close of nominations for the House of Commons at It is right that their Lordships should review the a general election— circumstance in which a Member was convicted abroad Thomas Docherty: There is already some precedent in order to satisfy themselves that the offence is recognised for somebody leaving the House of Lords, going straight as being serious in the United Kingdom and that the to the House of Commons and then back to the House circumstances of the conviction are fair. I know that a of Lords. I think I am right in saying that Alec Douglas- number of Members raised this issue on Second Reading, Home did exactly that in 1963 and was elected in and I commend my hon. Friend the Member for North Scotland to a seat that he represented for a number Warwickshire for the diligent and sensible way he has years and then became a life peer. managed to find an amendment that is elegant and to the point, and the Government are pleased to lend their Jacob Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely support to it. correct. There is indeed a precedent, which I was well aware of, and it is not just the late Lord Home of the Thomas Docherty: I have listened carefully to the Hirsel; Lord Hailsham did exactly the same. Both of arguments, some of which have been most persuasive. them resigned their peerage for the 1963 Conservative Given the assurances that the Government are open to leadership contest, at which point Tory leaders emerged the whole issue and the fact that I do not want to hold from the magic circle—a very satisfactory way of doing up this Bill, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. it, but it now done in a more modern way, and I am glad Amendment 1, by leave, withdrawn. to say that all Conservative Members have an equal Amendment made: 23, in clause 3, page 3, line 8, leave vote in our leadership elections. I cannot quite remember out subsection (9) and insert— how the trade unions sort it out in the Labour party, but ‘(9) A certificate under subsection (2) in respect of a I know that they have a lot of fun with it. conviction outside the United Kingdom may be issued only if the There is indeed a precedent, but the hon. Gentleman House of Lords resolves that subsection (1) should apply; and will remember that when the ability to disclaim peerages where the House does so resolve the Lord Speaker must issue the was introduced, a limited time was provided when all certificate.’.—(Dan Byles.) peers could disclaim their peerage, regardless of when they had received it. Thereafter, peers who disclaimed Clause 4 their peerage had a limited time in which to do so after inheriting their peerage. It was all done so that , the then , could get back into EFFECT OF CEASING TO BE A MEMBER the House of Commons to be elected for Bristol. That was done to provide for an extraordinary circumstance Jacob Rees-Mogg: I beg to move amendment 19, page 3, where people had no choice but to be peers. They had leave out line 29. become peers by the wonderful accident of birth that had raised them to such a status, which took them into Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it the House of Lords and forced them to leave the House will be convenient to discuss amendment 21, page 3, line 44, of Commons, whereas the precedent had already been at end insert— set in relation to Lord Curzon and that the ‘(9) A person who ceases to be a member of the House of Prime Minister had to come from the House of Commons. Lords in accordance with sections 1 and 2 of this Act may not be Therefore, to allow the widest choice of candidates for elected to the House of Commons during the course of the next two Parliaments. that leadership election, peers were able to resign their peerages and come into the Commons. However, people (10) A person who ceases to be a member of the House of becoming leaders of the party in that way is very Lords in accordance with this Act remains entitled to all the other privileges state degree style title and honour of peerage.’. different from it becoming a standard part of the career progression of a politician to go to the Lords first and Jacob Rees-Mogg: Amendments 19 and 21 aim to then come to the Commons. The first should not be deal with the issue of Members of the House of Lords seen as a stepping stone to the other. going from the Lords to the Commons. As the Bill was It is also a problem in relation to our constituency initially drafted and as we debated it on Second Reading, work, because it would not be inconceivable that an it would have been possible to have a revolving door or election result in a marginal seat could see a Member of ping-pong back and forth, depending which phrase is Parliament defeated, that his party might so value his or preferred. It would have been possible for someone to her services that they put them into the House of Lords, 557 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 558

[Jacob Rees-Mogg] and go back to being a Member of the House of Commons. That seems to me to be fundamentally from which he has the ability to campaign for the undesirable. marginal seat for the next five years, before resigning his Members may say that the risk is slim and that that seat in the House of Lords to come back to the House will never happen, but we are becoming a more professional of Commons. political class. There is certainly evidence that length of campaigning in constituencies helps. There is currently Thomas Docherty: Again, that situation already exists. a very good proposal from “ConservativeHome” to We have had a number of cases of Members of the provide candidates with funds to help them with that. House of Lords being elected to the Scottish Parliament, How much easier it would be if there was a nice, cosy but it has not led to widespread problems. billet in the House of Lords from which it could be done. Admittedly, that could not be done again, because Jacob Rees-Mogg: The devolved Parliaments are the peer would have burnt all his bridges in relation to different, because the simple logistics of needing to be returning to the House of Lords, but that is not too in Edinburgh or Cardiff and also in the House of Lords bad, because they would still have got 15 years out of make it much harder to work on that basis than between the system: one Parliament as an MP, one as a peer and, these two Houses, where the role, the position, the place if they are clever, another as an MP. It begins to look of activity are so very similar. It is perfectly reasonable like a means of forming a political career. to foresee someone who has just lost a seat spending five years as a Lord preparing to campaign for it again. If that system becomes a means of forming a political As it becomes clearer, and parties are well aware of this, career, it also becomes—I return to what I said earlier—a that to win seats we have all modelled ourselves on the means of the parties asserting more control over their Liberal Democrats—I say that with not a single one lordships’ House. A key thing about being in their present in the House now. We have worked out that to lordships’ House is that there really are no further win marginal constituencies—[Interruption.] I was not baubles the Government can offer. There are very few aware that there was anyone that I could see in the carrots and no sticks. That encourages independence of Galleries. mind. It encourages peers, once they get there, to be more rigorous in considering the merits of the issues Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. The before them and to act in the proper way of a revising hon. Gentleman knows that we make no mention of the Chamber. The more possible it is for Governments to Galleries, only this Chamber. encourage, coerce and persuade peers to stick tightly to the party line, the less use their lordships’ House will Jacob Rees-Mogg: That is why I did not see anybody serve, because it will be unable to do its job as a revising in them, Mr Deputy Speaker. Although, there is, as you Chamber effectively. know, the right to speak from the Gallery in the event Even if the risk is relatively slim and the numbers that the House is full. Sadly, it is not full today. involved will not necessarily be huge, it seems to me that some sort of stop ought to be placed on that and that Mr Deputy Speaker: I think that that is something of people go to the Lords knowing that they have accepted the past, not of the present. it for life, as we have already discussed, and that it disbars them from the House of Commons. It seems Jacob Rees-Mogg: No, it is still in “Erskine May” and— perfectly reasonable to me that people should face the consequences of decisions they have freely made. That Mr Deputy Speaker: I can help the hon. Gentleman a is where it is different from hereditary peers and disclaiming, little more. It is also up to the Chair to decide who because a hereditary peerage is not a decision freely speaks, and on this occasion I have decided to hear a made; it is an accident of birth. However, any life peer little more from Jacob Rees-Mogg. has received a letter from the Prime Minister saying, Jacob Rees-Mogg: I am very grateful, Mr Deputy “Do you want to be a life peer?”, has had letters patent Speaker, although I will let you into a secret: one of my issued by the sovereign and has had to pay Garter King ambitions is to speak from the Galleries one day. I think of Arms to draw up the paperwork. They have had to that it was last done in the 1950s. do something to get that noble status. They know, because they have been told, that it excludes them from To return to my point, it has been established that the the House of Commons, by their voluntary choice. best way to win marginal seats is to select candidates early and have them working in the constituencies for a Some argue that that is against their human rights, long time in the run-up to a general election. That which is an absolutely ridiculous understanding of human presents difficulties, however, because candidates have rights. I know that it has been argued that it is against to earn a living, need to find the resources to finance their human rights to stop them coming back to the their campaign and have to put other parts of their life House of Commons, but they are the ones who chose to on hold. If they can do that from the House of Lords, be ineligible for the House of Commons. Surely with that is an enormous advantage. It gives them an income rights go responsibilities, and surely people must face of sorts and it gives them status, which they can use to the consequences of their actions. intervene in constituency affairs—a local council or I think that the failure to include that exclusion in the Government body will take a letter from a peer just as Bill is a mistake. It is something that ought to be seriously as a letter from a Member of the House of remedied, because it could lead to problems in future. Commons. There is the risk of setting up an MP and an It could damage the standing of the House of Lords. It unelected peer to fight for a constituency for five years, could easily be misused by a powerful political party, with the peer simply standing down before the election because obviously the party in government is more able to put himself forward and conceivably take the seat to decide who the working peers will be, and therefore 559 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 560 to use it for its marginal seats, to the detriment of Jacob Rees-Mogg: The proposal would not put in an opposition parties. No party is in government for ever, artificial bar but maintain the status quo, because currently so it is always worth all sides bearing those difficulties in a specific Act of Parliament would be required for a life mind. It also fundamentally takes away from someone peer to come into this House. Lord Young could not the consequences of their actions, which I think is have been ’s successor without an wrong. I think that people should bear those consequences, Act of Parliament allowing him to disclaim his peerage. and once they have been elevated they should not be allowed to sink back down, at least for a period. Thomas Docherty: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that this door has been opened by the Bill, and I 12 pm recognise that he is trying to shut it. That was my point in talking about putting in an artificial bar. I hope that Thomas Docherty: I shall be brief. I had not planned the Minister will clearly set out how the Government to speak, but I was so interested by the arguments put intend to respond to this issue. I think that the hon. forward by the hon. Member for North East Somerset Gentleman is seeing a mischief where there is not one. I (Jacob Rees-Mogg) that I want to challenge some of his hope that when he responds he will reflect on what the assumptions. two Front Benchers have said. As I said earlier, we already have a system whereby Members of the House of Lords can serve simultaneously Dan Byles: Amendments 19 and 21 would prevent a in both the Lords and the Scottish Parliament. Lord peer who resigns or is disqualified through non-attendance Steel served ably for four years not just as a Member of from being elected to the House of Commons during the Scottish Parliament, but as its Presiding Officer the course of the next two Parliaments, thereby making while serving in and on occasion, I think, attending the provision for a cooling-off period. I think we all agree House of Lords. Lord Watson, who was previously an that would not want the House of Lords to become a MP, took a life peerage in 1997 and then stood successfully training ground for a seat in the House of Commons for election to the Scottish Parliament in a constituency and thereafter provide an opportunity to ping-pong in Glasgow in 1999. Lord Foulkes of Cumnock went between the Houses. As my hon. Friend the Member from the House of Commons to the House of Lords for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) said, my and the Scottish Parliament and maintained his very Bill does not allow departing peers to return to the active role in both the House of Lords and the Scottish House of Lords, so the ponging is gone, and perhaps we Parliament at the same time. are now just discussing the pinging. There is no suggestion in any of those cases that being a Member of the House of Lords gave an unfair I am conscious of my hon. Friend’s concerns, but the advantage to those three noble Lords while they were likelihood of many of them becoming reality are quite campaigning for election to the Scottish Parliament. slim. On the first group of amendments, he spoke with Lord Steel in particular was and is still a huge figure in great eloquence about how desperate many people are Scottish politics, deeply respected for his 30-odd years’ to get into the House of Lords. In my experience and, I service to the people of the Borders. That was why think, that of most people in the House, people are very Lord Steel was successful when he stood for election on keen to go in that direction but there is not necessarily the list in the Lothians region of the Scottish Parliament quite such a large queue waiting to come in this direction. in 1999. When I have discussed this with colleagues, they have looked at me and said, “Why on earth would somebody I fear that on this rare occasion the hon. Member for want to go from the Lords to the Commons? Most of North East Somerset sees mischief where none will our colleagues seem to be trying to go the other way.” exist. He was right to mention Lord Hailsham and the issue with Alec Douglas-Home. I read Alan Clark’s On the potential power given to party leaderships, I diaries a few months ago, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman am not convinced that the party leadership—in our has done. He will recall that at one point Baroness party, anyway—has quite as much control over the Thatcher was considering the merits of Lord Young as candidate selection process as my hon. Friend seems to a possible successor. It is utterly inconceivable in the give them credit for. Whenever the party leadership tries 21st century, never mind the 20th century, for a peer to to impose a favoured candidate on a safe seat, the fact become Prime Minister. That would be unacceptable that they are known to be the Conservative central to the electorate, and possibly even constitutionally office-favoured candidate can at times be the kiss of these days there would be questions about the validity death with regard to the local association, which usually of that role. likes to exert its independence when it come to selecting The danger with the argument that the hon. Gentleman candidates. makes with some sincerity is that it would close down My hon. Friend’s argument needs to be weighed the possibility that someone may go into the House of strongly against the very serious issue of barring a Lords and then emerge as a serious contender for high British citizen from seeking election to the House of office, though perhaps not the highest office, but if they Commons. I take his point when he says that someone wished to be Foreign Secretary or Chancellor of the will have made this decision when they chose to go into Exchequer, for example, it might be felt more appropriate the House of Lords, but it is very large step to say to for them to be a Member of this House. We have a them, “You, as a British citizen, are one of a small slightly quirky situation at present, and that was true group of people who, through dint of your previous also under the Labour Government when the First job, are not permitted to seek election to the House Secretary of State was a Member of the House of of Commons.” We have traditionally prevented people Lords and a junior Minister had to answer in this from seeking election to the House of Commons only House. Personally, I hope we will look at that again. for very narrow reasons, and I am wary of the amendment Putting in an artificial bar— for that reason. I am not aware of any widespread 561 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 562

[Dan Byles] such a bad thing. On balance—this is a finely balanced argument—I come down against the amendment tabled desire among parliamentarians to ping-pong backwards by the hon. Member for North East Somerset and hope and forwards—or ping, at least—and I very much doubt that he will withdraw it. that the party leaderships of all three parties would seek to use that as a method of grooming candidates in Greg Clark: I am disappointed that the House has future. lost the opportunity today to hear the unmistakable Amendment 21 says that any peer who resigned or and authoritative tones of my hon. Friend the Member was disqualified would retain their peerage. That principle for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) coming is already inherent in the Bill, which does not provide from the Gallery. It could only have lent even greater for peerages to be lost, and the amendment is therefore authority to his declarations. We shall look forward to unnecessary. I urge the House not to support the it happening at another time, with your permission, Mr amendments. Deputy Speaker. The issue has had a good airing in this short debate. I Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): I oppose fully understand my hon. Friend’s concern that we the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member should not risk losing the very important role that their for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), although lordships play in being a source of dispassionate expertise I recognise the sentiments he expresses about undue and advice to this place, and we all admire their robust campaigning and not allowing political advantage to be independence and scrutiny, even if, on occasion, Ministers conferred on people who try to get selected to this place find themselves on the wrong end of it. That is their role by virtue of their being a parliamentarian already. and they discharge it very well. I disagree with the hon. Member for Dunfermline We do not want to see the House of Lords become a and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) on the grounds that nursery for the Commons where young hopefuls start we already know of many Members of the European their careers before being transplanted to this Chamber Parliament who have sought to come to this place at some point. However, as the hon. Member for Liverpool, having been very proactive in parts of their constituencies. West Derby (Stephen Twigg) and my hon. Friend the I am thinking of a particular gentleman who is no Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) have said, this longer a Member of this House but was very assiduous is a balanced argument. My hon. Friend the Member in parts of his region where he ultimately got selected as for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) has sought always the candidate and was then elected to this House. My to gather those measures of reform that command the hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset is greatest possible consensus. This is not the last word on right to highlight the issue, but I am concerned that he House of Lords reform and some of the principles that may have given the idea to our political parties, rather even this short debate has thrown up are very serious than dissuaded them. I do not think it is necessary to and have consequence, such as whether it is right to put it into legislation. If there is ever a case of the restrict someone who is not a Member of Parliament procedure being abused, that would be the appropriate from standing for Parliament. That debate of some point at which to revisit the issue, in another Parliament. constitutional consequence needs to be approached carefully and to happen in the context of other debates that will Stephen Twigg: The hon. Member for North East no doubt take place in the years ahead about further Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) has raised a serious issue reform of the House of Lords. and I have given it a lot of thought. It has been pointed out to me by experts on this matter outside the House 12.15 pm that previous proposals for reform of the other place As my hon. Friend the Member for North East have included some sort of cooling-off period and that Somerset was gracious enough to acknowledge, the Bill it should, therefore, be considered as part of the Bill. is different from the one first introduced, so it cannot be When the hon. Gentleman moved his earlier subject to ping-pong in the way that would have been amendments, he discussed the risk of this becoming a permitted for the original Bill. We have given a great standard part of career progression, which is a fair deal of thought to this matter and those covered in point. However, we also have to balance that risk with previous discussions. When Lord Steel promoted his the arguments made by other hon. Members during this Bill in the other place, it made progress and was accepted debate. The decisive argument that leads me not to by their lordships, who were content for it to proceed support the amendments is that made just now by without what might be called the cooling-off period. I the promoter of the Bill, the hon. Member for North know that my hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire (Dan Byles), namely that I cannot defend Warwickshire has been influenced by, and has consciously the principle of barring a UK citizen from standing for modelled his Bill on, proposals that have already attracted election simply on the basis of their previous occupation. a degree of support and consensus, following considerable I accept that there is a risk, albeit a relatively slim scrutiny in the other place. To depart from the established one, of the system being abused. On the other hand, consensus in the other place might be perilous for a there could be some advantage to people who have private Member’s Bill on such a subject. experience of the other place standing for this place. I I agree with the comment that preventing someone think it is fair to say that, whatever our different views from running for elected office is a serious sanction. about the composition of the other place and the method Given the safeguards made to avoid ping-pong between of appointment and lack of election to it, it is often the Houses, it is not necessary for the Bill to forbid better than we are at the scrutiny and of Bills. If a small someone from doing so. I concede that this House and number of people with experience of scrutiny and revision the other place may want to come back to the matter in the other place came to this place, that might not be and, provided that the Bill is fortunate enough to receive 563 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 564

Royal Assent, perhaps to make a judgment based on the the need or otherwise for longer-term, substantial reform experience of how it works in practice. I am sure that of the membership of the upper Chamber. I remind there will be other opportunities to discuss it in the Members that the Bill does not prevent those debates years ahead. from continuing, but focuses on the extremely overdue Let me just mention amendment 21, tabled by my reforms that we all agree are crucial. hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset. As I am confident that, following its considered examination has been said, it would clarify that any peer who resigns by colleagues, the Bill is in excellent shape to be progressed or is disqualified retains his or her peerage. It may help to the upper Chamber. I therefore urge Members to if I repeat from the Dispatch Box what was said by my continue to assist in its safe passage today and to give hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire. The those in the upper Chamber this vital opportunity to Government’s view is that that is already implicit in the reform themselves. Bill, which states that a peerage cannot be lost in such a way. I am happy to confirm that to provide clarity and 12.21 pm certainty. Thomas Docherty: I, too, will be brief because there Given the reasons that I have set out, I hope that my are other important Bills that will come before us hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset is shortly. inclined not to press his amendments. I thank the hon. Member for North Warwickshire Jacob Rees-Mogg: I have listened very carefully to the (Dan Byles) for bringing the Bill forward. It is an speeches in this debate. I am very reassured by the impressive Bill, in that it has not only generated a lot of Minister’s commitment that the matter will be reviewed debate, but made sufficient progress in a packed legislative if it turns out to be a problem: if my fears turn out to be programme to head down to the House of Lords. I real, it will be looked at, and if they turn out not to be, it hope that, because of the work that has been done here, will not matter. I am also reassured that the honorifics the House of Lords will not feel the need to spend too that go with a peerage will clearly remain. I do not want long on it and it will become law before the end of the to risk the Bill by pushing my amendments to a Division, Session. so I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. If the hon. Member for North Warwickshire is the Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. father of the Bill, it is probably worth stressing that Third Reading Lord Steel is its godfather. Like many godfathers, he is no doubt taking an interest in what we are doing and Queen’s consent signified. watching over us in some way. I hope that the whole House will join me in thanking him for his work on the 12.18 pm Bill over the years. Dan Byles: I beg to move, That the Bill be now read I believe in reform of the House of Lords. I hope that the Third time. this is not the last Bill on the subject. Whether or not I thank the hon. Members, some of whom are in the Members support an elected or partially elected House Chamber, who participated in Committee for their careful of Lords, I think that it is recognised across this House— consideration of and full support for each clause. I do indeed, it is recognised in the House of Lords itself—that not intend to repeat the very full debate we have just it is absurd to have more than 800 peers and for that had on Report. The advantage of discussing a wide number to be growing quickly. I hope that the Bill will range of amendments is that we have already explored have an impact on that, but I also hope that Front several of the clauses, so I need not go over them again. Benchers are committed to having another look at the I thank colleagues for their considered and thoughtful composition and operation of the House of Lords. interventions, and for agreeing to my amendment 23, I thank the Clerks who have done such a fantastic which will make the Bill a better one. job, in particular Kate Emms, and all the House officials I am delighted that Members of all political parties who have worked with the hon. Member for North have come together to consider the provisions of the Warwickshire, the hon. Member for North East Somerset Bill carefully and to lend their support throughout its (Jacob Rees-Mogg), myself and other Members who parliamentary stages. The Bill seeks to implement the have tabled amendments. urgent, housekeeping reforms that the upper Chamber I commend the Bill to the House. It is an excellent welcomed during the passage of Lord Steel’s Bill. Those piece of work. I urge the other place not to spend too include a statutory resignation provision, so that peers long rehashing these issues, because it is important that may leave the House if they no longer feel able to serve the Bill gets on to the statute book before the end of the or if they wish to retire; a mechanism for the removal of Session. persistent non-attendees who fail to fulfil their important duties to the House; and a system to remove peers who 12.24 pm commit serious criminal offences, thereby safeguarding the reputation of the House of Lords. Dr Thérèse Coffey: I rise to commend the Bill to the House and to our noble Friends in the other place. It is plain that both Houses embrace those sensible reforms, which Members have long agreed the House of The Bill makes a sensible reform. I was pleased to Lords requires. The debate over how reform of the be invited by my hon. Friend the Member for North upper Chamber should be achieved has thwarted earlier Warwickshire (Dan Byles) to help prepare and bring in attempts at reform and has led to these essential and the Bill, and to serve on the Public Bill Committee. highly reasonable reforms not being implemented. I When a previous version of the Bill was discussed, it appreciate that the wider debate about reform will did not get past Second Reading, even though it had a continue and that colleagues hold different views on significant majority at that point. A number of issues 565 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 566

[Dr Thérèse Coffey] the Bill. In many ways, as he said, this is a housekeeping Bill: it is modest, but important and sensible nevertheless. have been raised through amendments today and in Without this Bill, we face a real risk of heading towards Committee. I thank, in particular, my hon. Friend the an upper House with as many as 1,000 Members. That Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), is more than can fit into the other place for a popular who is one of the great champions of constitutional debate—surely a farcical position to be in. propriety, but who also recognises the need for appropriate Clause 1 is a sensible step that allows peers to retire reform. or resign. As the shadow Attorney-General said on I sincerely hope that the other House passes the Bill Second Reading, a peerage should not be a life sentence. without undue delay. It remains remarkable that one cannot retire from the House of Lords, and gives an impression of the other Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I call Jacob place as a members’ club, rather than a serious place of Rees-Mogg, to speak from the body of the Chamber. democratic scrutiny. The option of resignation will be useful in a number of different scenarios, such as when 12.25 pm a Lord is ill, as was said earlier, or unable to keep up their attendance. To have peers who do not or cannot Jacob Rees-Mogg: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. play their role in the parliamentary process, but who Unfortunately, the rule has a caveat that the House nevertheless remain entitled or expected to do so, surely must be full for someone to speak from the Galleries, devalues our democratic process, and I am pleased that and sadly that is not the case today. the Bill will change that. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Clause 2 provides that a Member of the House of Coastal (Dr Coffey) for her incredibly generous comments, Lords who is a peer and does not attend the House and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for during a Session will cease to be a Member of the North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) on piloting this Bill. I House at the beginning of the following Session. The am surprised that I find myself supporting a reform Bill public are understandably frustrated when they wonder of any kind, as I am normally with Lord Palmerston: why Members of the Lords remain ennobled and able “Change? Change? Aren’t things bad enough already?” to vote in the Lords when they are never present to My hon. Friend has piloted this Bill with incredibly undertake that role. The measures in the Bill ensure that courtesy, efficiency, and a willingness to listen to the that will no longer be the case. To be a member of the points that have been raised. Although I think all its House of Lords should not merely be a line on one’s CV proceedings should have been on the Floor of the or a hobby, but a serious role that requires attendance. House, it is a rare event for a Back-Bench Member to Clause 3 means that a Member of the Lords who is pass a constitutional Bill and it requires a good deal of convicted of a serious offence ceases to be a Member. patience and perhaps responsiveness. Again, that is a sensible measure to ensure that we protect the of the other place. The public Thomas Docherty: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would would be very concerned if convicted criminals, guilty agree that the hon. Member for North Warwickshire of serious offences, were still able to play an active part (Dan Byles) is much more successful at such things than in our lawmaking and democratic process, and I am the Deputy Prime Minister appears to be. pleased that the hon. Member for North Warwickshire was successful in his amendment to clause 3 which, Jacob Rees-Mogg: For once, I will praise the Lord rightly, offers further protections for peers who may be President of the Council, because to be fair to him—my incorrectly convicted abroad under foreign jurisdictions. right hon. Friend!—having not been able to get through a massive reform of the House of Lords that would Nevertheless, it remains the view on the Labour have had enormous constitutional implications, he has Benches that these changes do not go far enough. They shown good grace in not sulking in his den and trying to should not be seen as the end of the road, but merely as obstruct this reform. This Bill allows transitions to take the next stage of reform. The upper Chamber is in need place which, although minor in themselves, are actually of much more radical reform and indeed this Chamber quite fundamental. A life peerage is now no longer for has voted for that both in this Parliament and the life, the problem of peers committing offences is dealt previous one. There are only two countries in the world—the with at last—which in some ways is long overdue—the other being Lesotho—in which the upper House combines House of Lords is now able to expel peers, and non- non-elected Members with Members selected by birthright attendance has a sanction. I think those reforms make and patronage. It is an institution that has eight times as the upper House stronger. That is not to say that I do many Members over the age of 90 as it does under the not have minor qualms about some of the detail, but my age of 40, but it plays a central role in our democracy— hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire has despite having no democratic mandate. been incredibly successful in piloting the Bill, and has Beyond democratic legitimacy, there are practical done so in such a way that even those of us who are considerations. The Bill will help to tidy up the Lords, accused of being Neanderthal about constitutional matters and is therefore welcome, but the problem will keep are on his side. coming back. After each general election, new Governments will always seek to reflect the balance of the vote at the election in the composition of the Lords, creating a 12.27 pm further pressure that means we still risk having 1,000 Stephen Twigg: I start by joining the congratulations Members in the other place. Disqualifying convicted to the hon. Member for North Warwickshire (Dan criminals and allowing peers to resign is tidying up a Byles) on his Bill and his success in reaching Third molehill when there is a mountain of reform still needed. Reading, and I reaffirm the Opposition’s support for Nevertheless, the Bill is an important step in the right 567 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill 568 direction and I reaffirm our congratulations to the hon. right that a conscientious peer who has played a full and Member for North Warwickshire and commend the Bill active role in the House of Lords, but feels in all to the House. conscience that they can no longer maintain that level of commitment, should be entitled to an honourable release from that commitment. The Bill, very sensibly, 12.32 pm will provide for that. I also think it consistent with the enormous privilege Greg Clark: I echo the plaudits that are no doubt that comes with a peerage—to which my hon. Friend ringing in the ears of my hon. Friend the Member for the Member for North East Somerset has repeatedly North Warwickshire (Dan Byles) for the way in which drawn attention—to provide for those who do not he has successfully—I hope, although it is subject to the attend the House of Lords or take their duty to it will of the House—piloted his Bill through its stages. I seriously to be permanently removed from their seats. I commend him on his bravery in taking forward—as my think that allowing persistent non-attenders who do not hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset play a role in the work of the House to keep their seats (Jacob Rees-Mogg) said—an important constitutional damages the reputation of those who are diligent, and Bill as a private Member’s Bill. It is a brave Member of who contribute their time, effort, energy and learning to Parliament who, when he comes high up in the ballot the debates that take place there. for private Members’ Bills, chooses House of Lords It is vital for all Members of the legislature to uphold reform. It is not the most obvious choice, but my hon. the highest standards of integrity. Allowing peers who Friend the Member for North Warwickshire made it commit serious criminal offences to keep their seats in and has piloted his Bill in an exemplary manner. the House of Lords can only harm its reputation and Part of my hon. Friend’s achievement is to have undermine its important work, and it is right for Members worked tirelessly to consult and listen to respected who fall foul of the rules to be permanently removed. voices, many of whom have spoken in the debate today, Indeed, our colleagues on the Political and Constitutional so that both the formulation of his propositions, and Reform Committee who considered the Bill noted that the amendments to them, have been able to establish a every witness who had given evidence during its inquiry degree of support on both sides of the House. I hope into House of Lords reform had supported a provision that that will also be the case in the House of Lords. to remove Members who committed serious criminal offences. I also wish to put on record my thanks to the Members who participated in Committee on 15 January, considering For those reasons, the Government fully support the a large number of amendments that were made without important and reasonable measures that the Bill seeks any Divisions. The Bill is not the last word on reform, to implement. We are grateful to my hon. Friend the and there will doubtless be more debate to come. I echo Member for North Warwickshire for giving the House the words of other hon. Members in paying tribute to an opportunity to consider them, and for the way in the officials and the Clerks who guided my hon. Friend which he allowed the debate to be conducted. Following in the drafting of the Bill and dealing with some of the careful and detailed consideration, not just today but in questions that arose. It is a tribute to their wisdom and Committee and on Second Reading, the House of advice that we have been able to make the progress that Commons has given the Bill full and good consideration, we have. and I think that we are sending it to the House of Lords in a good state. I hope that it will be possible to build I hope that the other place will accept the strong and on the work of Lord Steel—who, similarly, took great positive endorsement of the House for the Bill. While pains to ensure that his own Bill received a degree of discussions on the wider membership and structure of scrutiny and support—and that the union between that the Lords will continue, the Bill is useful. The three heritage and my hon. Friend’s Bill will enable it to make elements that it will introduce—a statutory resignation good progress in the other place. I commend it to the process, a disqualification mechanism on conviction of House. a serious offence and removal for those who persistently Question put and agreed to. fail to attend the House without reasonable excuse or Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. leave of absence—are steps in the right direction. It is 569 28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 570

Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill I absolutely agree that people must remove their face coverings where everyone else has to show their face, Second Reading such as in a bank or at passport control, but does my hon. Friend really want to live in a country where we 12.37 pm have the Government telling people what they can wear Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I beg to and what they cannot wear, because that is the bit that move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. makes me very nervous about our having that kind of authoritarian state? My Bill—which is not exactly extensive, consisting of just two pages of carefully drafted text—is designed to Mr Hollobone: I thank my hon. Friend for his prohibit the wearing of certain face coverings, and intervention, and may I echo my remarks to the right seeks to make it illegal for people to cover their faces in hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) by saying public places. In many respects I am sorry that it has what a privilege it is that my hon. Friend is here today come to this, but there is growing concern among my to take part in this debate? He is a champion of these constituents, and indeed throughout the country, about private Members’ Bills Fridays and he always brings a the increasing number of people who are going about in very distinctive and very personal view to our proceedings. public places covering their faces. It is causing alarm It is surprising to me that he and I are on different sides and distress to many people in our country. I have of this argument, because we agree on so many things, received numerous letters and e-mails, not only from my not least the importance of closed-circuit television in constituents but from people the length and breadth of fighting crime. My hon. Friend is perhaps the foremost the land who fear that the nation is heading in the advocate in this place of the benefits of closed-circuit wrong direction. television, but of course one of the big problems with The two main face coverings that give rise to concern face coverings is that if someone whose face is covered are full-face balaclavas—which we see being worn is captured on CCTV, we cannot identify them. increasingly during demonstrations—and full-face Islamic veils. My contention is that, because of political correctness Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): I am grateful and sensitivities about unintentionally causing harm to to my hon. Friend for giving way; he is being very religious minorities, the Government are frightened to generous with his time so early in his remarks. He is act on the issue, which is a great shame. touching on an important area that I wish to question him on briefly. One of the reasons this Bill is seen as Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I congratulate the particularly sensitive is that the two groups he has hon. Gentleman on getting the chance to introduce this referred to are very separate. One may be out to break Bill, although I oppose it and will oppose it on Second the law—they may be covering their face because they Reading. As far as I can see, he has 723 Muslims in his intend to break the law and not be seen—while the constituency. Has he consulted any of them about the others are law abiding and are covering their face because proposals he is making to the House today, and if he of their religion. It is that conflict between those two has, what is their view on whether the Bill should be groups that causes the difficulty with the Bill. supported? Mr Hollobone: My hon. Friend makes an extremely Mr Hollobone: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for good point. I am triply blessed today, given that he too his intervention. As he will know, I am very happy to is in his place and contributing to the debate. He is give way on many occasions whenever I am on my feet without parallel in his scrutiny of private Members’ in the Chamber, and may I say it is a privilege for me legislation, which is to the advantage of us all. I want to that he has given up his Friday to be here for this make it clear from the outset that I know that there are debate? I am sure it will be all the better for his presence. strong views on both sides of this argument. There are strong merits and strong demerits to the Bill. I said The right hon. Gentleman tells me there are 723 Muslims earlier that, in many respects, I was sorry that it has in the Kettering constituency.I do not count my constituents come to needing legislation. The problem is that law-abiding by their faith? I have no idea whether there are 723 Muslims citizens who cover their face for supposedly religious in my constituency or 7,230. The faith of my constituents reasons are, by their actions, alienating so many of our is irrelevant to me. I am concerned to represent my other citizens in this country. It causes alarm and distress constituents whatever faith they may hold, so I do not to many of our citizens who are not part of those hold those statistics, but I am grateful to the right hon. religious groups to see Britain’s high streets being Gentleman for informing me of that. increasingly dominated by, especially, Islamic women There is a Kettering Muslim Association and we have who are covering their faces in full. I would be doing my had correspondence and conversations about this issue, constituents a disservice if I did not bring these concerns and I have to say that that dialogue has ended because, to the Floor of the House. despite my offering to speak with members of the association about my Bill, they have declined that Philip Davies: I absolutely agree with everything my opportunity to me. I think that is a great shame, and I hon. Friend has just said; that is something that I hear am sure the right hon. Gentleman will feel it is a great from my constituents over and over again. My constituency shame as well, because, whatever our views on this is in a district of Bradford that, unfortunately, has a issue, it is important that they are debated and discussed. very segregated population, and the activity that he is describing exacerbates the differences and the segregation. Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): I absolutely agree with In many respects, I disapprove of this and wish that the point my hon. Friend has just made, and I am people would not wear those face coverings, for the absolutely certain that the vast majority of my constituents reasons he has just given, but does he not agree that we will agree with his Bill. I am not sure, though, that I do. can disapprove of something without banning it? 571 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 572

Mr Hollobone: That is a very good point. I do disapprove I am standing up and speaking out for the many hundreds of full-face veils, but I have gone a step further than my of thousands of people in this country who are concerned hon. Friend in saying that they should be banned. That about the increasing number of people covering their is the difference between us. The reason that I say it is faces in public and who, frankly, feel that that is alien to that the number of people who are now covering their the British way of life. faces is such that it is not helping the integration of ethnic and religious minorities into our society. Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): Will One of the big problems we have in Britain today is the hon. Gentleman give way? the number of ethnic minority Muslim women who do not speak English. It is very difficult for people who do Mr Hollobone: I am happy to give way to the hon. not speak English to take advantage of all the positive Lady and I welcome what she has to say. I want to aspects of our society that are open to each and every respond to all the interventions that I have taken, but I one of us. am happy to give way to her at this point.

Keith Vaz rose— Rushanara Ali: The hon. Gentleman talks about the British way. As someone of Muslim background, I Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab) rose— believe passionately in the right of any minority group, including Muslim women, to choose how they dress, Mr Hollobone: I give way to the right hon. Member and the best of British is our diversity and our inclusiveness. for Leicester East. His choice of this Bill and his comment about what the British way is does a great disservice to our country by Keith Vaz: The hon. Gentleman said in response to representing it in such a narrow-minded and intolerant the intervention by the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip way. Davies) that Muslim women were wearing veils “supposedly” for reasons of religious belief. Does he Mr Hollobone: The hon. Lady will not be surprised not accept that they do so because of their religious that I disagree with those remarks. She will know, belief, not “supposedly” because of it? In the Koran, because I informed her at the time, that a couple of Muslim men and women are instructed to do certain years ago I visited her constituency as part of a TV things, and it is their choice whether to do them. It is up programme. We did our best to speak with veiled women to the Muslim women themselves; nobody tells them in her high street and I have to say that it was not an what to do. If they accept what is written in their holy easy thing to do. It further drew my attention to the book, they will choose to do it. difficulties that veiled women have in undertaking normal everyday human interaction with people who are not Mr Hollobone: I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s veiled, because part of the traditional British way of life intervention, and I am happy to give way to him as is that when somebody passes somebody else in the many times as he wants to intervene on me. That applies street whom they recognise, or half-recognise, they smile, to anyone else in the Chamber. I also welcome the tone perhaps wave and say hello; it is called neighbourliness. with which we have started this debate. These are important It is difficult for somebody to do that if their face is issues and there are strong feelings on both sides. It is an covered and it is also difficult for somebody else to do it important part of our role as parliamentarians to air to them, because there is no reaction. the concerns of our constituents, even if they are difficult Frankly, I do not want to live in a country where issues, and what better place to do that than in the people—whether they are men or women—are increasingly Chamber of the House of Commons? I will respond to going around with their faces covered, because it will the point that the right hon. Gentleman has just raised lead to a deterioration in the quality of life. It also after I have taken an intervention from the right hon. means that those ethnic minority women, largely from Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman). Muslim backgrounds, who do not speak English will find it much more difficult to learn to speak English, Sir Gerald Kaufman: The hon. Gentleman was moving and they will remain at a disadvantage when it comes to on to talk about Muslim women who did not speak accessing public services and interacting with the normal English. That is very much widening the scope of his way of life if they cannot speak English properly. attack and, frankly, makes one question his motivation. Neither of my parents, who were immigrants, could Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab): I am grateful to the ever read or write English, although they acquired some hon. Gentleman for giving way on that point. Does he ability to speak the language. Should they have been not think that the introduction of his Bill might lead to excluded or pressed upon? They enabled me to become more women feeling that they are unable to leave their a Member of Parliament. Is the hon. Gentleman saying homes? If they are unable to leave their homes, they will that Muslim women who cannot speak English should be unable to attend English classes; if they are unable to not have the right to have their children become Members attend English classes, they are less likely to integrate in of Parliament? the way he describes.

Mr Hollobone: I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman’s Mr Hollobone: That is an interesting intervention and parents would be extremely proud of their son being a one that I am, of course, happy to take seriously, but it distinguished parliamentarian, but I am pretty sure that disturbs me greatly, because if we are talking about his mother was not veiled. The purpose of my Bill is to women from communities who, if they are not allowed talk about covering one’s face and not about restricting to wear a veil are not allowed to go out, I have to people because they do not speak English. My intentions question the ethics of the cultural background that in putting forward this Bill are 100% honourable, because would deny women the ability to go out into a normal 573 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 574

[Mr Hollobone] Mr Hollobone: I am most grateful for that reference. My Bill has absolutely no impact on the hijab or on any British high street without having their faces covered. kind of Islamic headdress that does not cover the face, Has it come to the point that we are saying to women, but it would proscribe the niqab and the burqa. Some “You can’t go out of doors, because of your cultural people have been jumping up and down saying, “Philip background, unless your face is veiled”? That is abhorrent Hollobone’s Bill is going to ban Muslim head-dresses”, in 21st century Britain. but that is absolutely not the case. In lots of Christian countries around the world, although not so much in this country nowadays, women have worn head-dresses Philip Davies: I want to press my hon. Friend on this as a sign of modest dress. Nuns wear head-dresses, and point. I agree with him: I regret the fact that so many in this country in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s, although people, particularly in the Bradford district, wear full-face perhaps not so much in the 1970s, people often wore veils. So I do not disagree with the sentiment, but I did head scarves when out and about. So the concept of a not come into Parliament to ban everybody else from head-dress is not alien to the British way of life, but doing all the things I do not happen to like. One thing I covering one’s face in public is absolutely alien to it. have been perturbed about since I got elected to Parliament That is why it is more than just an issue of dress; it is is that many people, particularly Opposition Members, about concealing one’s identity. are for ever seeking to ban everybody from doing anything they do not like. Does he understand the reluctance to The Bill is quite carefully drafted. Clause 1(1) says try to impose someone’s will on everybody just because that it is what that person happens to think? “a person wearing a garment or other object intended by the wearer as its primary purpose to obscure the face in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.” Mr Hollobone: I do understand that reluctance and, in many ways, it pains me greatly to propose this Bill. It does not mention Islamic veils or balaclavas. The For me, although perhaps not for my hon. Friend, a line proscription applies to somebody covering their face in is crossed when we are talking about covering one’s a public place. Of course, it is part of the natural way of face. For me, this is not about telling people what to things that when we go about our daily lives, we interact wear—it is not about clothing; it is about the concealing with our fellow human beings because we can see their of someone’s identity. That is where the big difference face. Imagine how difficult it would be in this Chamber lies. were Members to be veiled. Madam Deputy Speaker calls us to our feet by identifying us and naming us. If all of us in this Chamber now were wearing full face Mr Nuttall: Before we move on to the issue of identity, veils, how would she do her job? let us stick with the issue of communication. On a Members bow when they go through the Lobby, serious note, has my hon. Friend had any communication having cast their vote. In actual fact, they should raise from the Royal National Institute for Deaf People, their heads. Hundreds of years ago, Members used to because deaf people rely on being able to see someone’s send their man servants to vote on their behalf. In order lips for the purposes of communication if they are a lip to stop abuse, the Clerks insisted that everyone raise reader? their heads to show their face once they had cast their vote so that their identity could be secured. It would be Mr Hollobone: My hon. Friend makes an extremely interesting to know what the House authorities would good point, and I have had communications from deaf do were a Member of this place to wear a full face veil. people who have raised it. They tell me how frustrated How would they verify their vote in the Lobby? That is they feel whenever they are faced with a woman wearing an issue of concern to those who are required to check a full-face veil, because they are simply unable to people’s identities. communicate, unless in a written form. That must be extremely difficult for deaf people and it is a real Philip Davies: I very much agree with my hon. Friend, concern. It must be extremely difficult for veiled women especially on clauses 2 and 3. People should be able to who are deaf to engage with other veiled women in their request the removal of face coverings. In situations in communities. Some five interventions ago, the right which everyone has to identify themselves, it should be hon. Member for Leicester East challenged me on the compulsory for people to remove them. If his Bill was point about religious beliefs. I am not a Muslim; I am a confined to ensuring that, where appropriate, people member of the Church of England and I go to my local had to reveal their identities on, for example, a bus, at Salvation Army. I am very much from a Christian passport control or at a bank, I would be wholeheartedly background, but I have huge respect for people of faith, in favour of it. Has he considered limiting the scope of whatever their faith might be, and that includes Islam. his Bill to that, because he would find much more Of course, I am not an Islamic scholar, but I have support than he would for a blanket ban? researched the matter in some depth and nowhere at all, anywhere in the world, can I find any proscription that Mr Hollobone: I welcome my hon. Friend’s intervention. women are required by Islam to cover their face. As I We can pursue such things in more depth when the Bill understand it, the Koran, the holy book to Muslims, goes into Committee. I can see that we would have very requires women to dress modestly, and the vast majority many animated sessions on just those sorts of points. If of Muslim women in this country adhere to that without I were to restrict the scope of the Bill to those clauses, I covering their faces. might enjoy the additional support from my hon. Friend, but I very much doubt that I would get the additional Keith Vaz: The clearest verses on the requirement of support from Opposition Members. Those Members the hijab are surah—chapter—24, verses 30-31. are so enthralled by the difficulties of political correctness 575 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 576 and on challenging those difficult issues, that even this would say that justice has to be seen to be done. If a modest proposal from my hon. Friend would not meet defendant in court has their face covered, the jury is at with their approval. They would see it as going against an immediate disadvantage, because so much of hearing the supposed religious requirements of Islamic women. evidence is about reading somebody’s face. If a witness Where a person has to prove their identity, whether is giving evidence behind a veil or a balaclava, it is by the police, in a post office or at immigration control, difficult to tell whether they are telling the truth. In this it is perfectly reasonable that they be required, without Chamber, we look at each other’s faces all the time. The any fuss or bother, to remove their face coverings. Of right hon. Gentleman is pulling a funny face at me at course there is a lot of difficulty with this issue. There is this moment. a worry that if we require a veiled woman to remove her face covering, we might be in breach of some race Keith Vaz: On a point of order, Madam Deputy relations or equality law. One of the advantages of my Speaker. The hon. Gentleman, making his case in the Bill is that it would remove that ambiguity. Under passionate way in which he does, suggests that I was clause 2, the Bill says: pulling a funny face at him. May I assure him that that was my normal face? “Where members of the public are licensed to access private premises for the purposes of the giving or receiving of goods or services, it shall not be an offence for the owner of such premises Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): or his agents— Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. (a) to request that a person wearing a garment or other object We can see that because my right hon. Friend is not intended to obscure the face remove such garment or object; or wearing a face covering. (b) to require that a person refusing a request under subsection (a) leave the premises.” Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): It will come as no surprise to the House that those are not At the moment, a motorcyclist, male or female, pulling points of order to be dealt with from the Chair, to my up at a petrol station to fill up and then going to pay is great relief, but the House is much the better for the required to remove their helmet for security reasons. points of information that have come before it in that The owner of the petrol station does not want someone incorrect way, for which I thank the right hon. Gentlemen. coming into their premises whose identity they cannot check or record on CCTV. They might even recognise Mr Hollobone: I am relieved to know that the right them, or they might be able to identify them to the hon. Member for Leicester East was pulling a normal police if a theft were to take place. But somebody going face, and very distinguished it is too. I of course meant to buy petrol wearing a burqa causes problems, because “funny” in a nice way. the owner of the petrol station will be unsure whether they can require that person to remove their head-dress. Keith Vaz: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who The person wearing the full-face veil might have already is being very generous and has given way to anyone who filled up their car or motorbike, but what will happen if has asked him to. Can he give any example of a defendant the owner of the petrol station is unhappy about whether being asked by a judge to remove their veil and refusing they are legitimate and does not know whether they can to do so? If he can, is he is aware that the Lord Chief require them to remove their veil? If the person wearing Justice started a consultation process last November the veil refuses to remove it, what does the owner of the that will enable people to put forward their views on petrol station do? My Bill would remove that ambiguity. that before he gives guidance to judges? That is the right It would be an absolute requirement that if, say, someone course of action and the court process needs to be in a petrol station, a shop, a post office or a bank, respected. wanted someone to remove their full-face veil, balaclava or motorcycle helmet, they could do so without fear of Mr Hollobone: I am not aware of a case in which a breaking any race relations or equality law. In many defendant has refused to remove a face covering when respects, as my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley asked to, but I am pretty sure that there have been cases (Philip Davies) rightly identified, those are two of the in which a judge has directed someone to remove a veil strongest clauses in the Bill. and there has then been an argument about it. I think One mistake that we might be making—the right there have been restrictions on which parts of court hon. Member for Leicester East touched on this—concerns proceedings a person is allowed to wear a veil in. whether this is a restriction on religious freedom. One I think that most of my constituents, and most people of the cul-de-sacs that the debate can go into is in in the country, would say that in court someone’s face saying that this is a debate between the west and Islam. should be visible all the time. I know that there are Of course it is nothing of the sort. The right hon. circumstances, sometimes involving vulnerable witnesses, Gentleman will know probably better than I that there in which evidence is given from behind a screen or via a are restrictions in Islamic countries on wearing the veil. TV link, and I understand those issues. However, in The veil is an issue not just in the west but in Muslim cases that do not involve those special circumstances, I countries. In Turkey, Tunisia, Syria and quite a large think that most people would think it entirely reasonable number of other Muslim countries, there are restrictions for everyone in the court to be able to see everyone else’s on where one can and cannot wear the veil. The idea face at all times, because so much of the evidence and that this is Christianity versus Islam is simply not the court proceedings is about reading somebody’s face, case. seeing their reaction to a point someone else makes and However, we have areas of particular concern in this listening to their own evidence. I hope that whoever in country that need to be tackled, and which I am legal circles is drawing up the guidance gets on with it, disappointed that the Government have been reluctant frankly. My submission is that in all circumstances, to move on. The first is the courts. Most of my constituents unless especially vulnerable witnesses or child witnesses 577 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 578

[Mr Hollobone] playground in the Kettering constituency in the middle of England, and here is a woman who does not want need to give evidence by TV link or from behind a anyone else to look at her. I thought to myself that at a screen, everyone should be able to see everyone else’s very basic level, this is discourtesy. Why would anyone face at all times. I think most people would agree with want to hide their identity from everyone else? that. I thought, “Well, maybe it is a religious requirement.” The other case concerns schools. Again, I think that Then I found out that it is not a religious requirement most people in this country would say it is entirely for a woman to cover her face, and I wondered how I wrong for a teacher to be able to teach a class while would feel if, instead of the woman covering her face, it wearing a full-face veil. The Government have been was her husband next to her who was wearing a full-face reluctant to spell that out in black and white, which I balaclava? How would that make me feel? Of course it think they should do. Likewise, I think that it is abhorrent would make me feel very concerned indeed about why a that in some schools, as I understand has happened in a man was walking across a children’s playground wearing number of cases, the uniform code requires really very a balaclava. I asked myself what I would do about it? I young girls to wear full-face veils. I think that is entirely would tell somebody in the park security department inappropriate. I would therefore welcome a clear direction that there was a man wandering about wearing a full-face from Her Majesty’s Government, perhaps to be given balaclava in a children’s playground. by the Minister on the Floor of the House today, that it The right hon. Member for Leicester East is definitely is completely unacceptable for either teachers or pupils pulling a quizzical face at me, and that is fine. He is to wear full-face veils in an educational establishment. entitled to do that, and I can see him doing it because he Madam Deputy Speaker, I see that you are itching to is not wearing a veil, but perhaps he does not understand call me to order— that it raises real concerns that individuals can go around covering their faces. Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. For the information of the hon. Gentleman, he is Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): The other perfectly in order. It is his Bill and he is elucidating his Member for Leicester was also looking askance at the opinions on it very well and in a way that is perfectly in hon. Gentleman, and I am very surprised that he finds order. the wearing of the veil so discourteous. In the parks in Leicester or even the soft play area on Evington Valley Mr Hollobone: I am very relaxed after that guidance, road where I often take my children, we often see Madam Deputy Speaker, so thank you. women wearing the niqab and it does not offend me in Another issue concerns police officers. Would it be any way, but I were to see a gentleman wearing a acceptable for a police officer to wear a full-face veil? I balaclava, I would of course be concerned because do not think it would. I think it would alarm members a balaclava is not religious dress and it is out of the of the public. When tackling these issues, I make up my ordinary. mind by asking myself, “Is it okay for a woman to wear Mr Hollobone: It is not a religious requirement in a full-face veil? Is it okay for a man to wear a full-face Islam for a woman to cover her face. balaclava?” Jonathan Ashworth: The hon. Gentleman is right. Sir Gerald Kaufman: Is the hon. Gentleman aware There are different interpretations of the Koran. None that when some police officers are involved in a terrorist of us here are Islamic scholars so it is not for us to give situation and are armed, they will wear balaclavas, our judgment on that, but if these women choose to which cover their faces completely, just as the face is interpret the Koran as asking them to wear the niqab covered for a Muslim woman? That aspect is covered, and the veil, who are we to criticise them for it? just as my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) has pointed out that the issue in the Mr Hollobone: We are parliamentarians standing up law courts is covered by the judges. We do not need a for and speaking on behalf our constituents, who are law on it. concerned about these things. I do not think it helps the integration of communities in a multicultural British Mr Hollobone: Yes, but in the cases where those society when an increasingly large number of people, specialist police officers are covering their faces, it is for mainly women, go around covering their faces. That health and safety reasons. Where they are dealing with a cannot promote community cohesion on any level. Do terrorist incident and there is a likelihood that weapons we really want to live in a Britain where a growing could be deployed or explosives could go off, often a number of people are going around with their identities balaclava is required as a protective device for the police obscured? I do not, and I know that the majority of my officer’s face. Everybody understands that. What would constituents do not. be completely unacceptable would be for ordinary beat officers—ordinary police officers whom the right hon. Rushanara Ali rose— Gentleman, I and other Members see every day of the Mr Hollobone: I fear I have provoked the hon. Member week—to wear full-face balaclavas. for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) into This parallel between balaclava-wearing and the wearing intervening as well. of full-face veils first struck me when I took my children to a local park. I was sitting in the children’s playground Rushanara Ali: Has the hon. Gentleman considered watching my children playing, and this Muslim woman how many people could become criminalised and end wearing a full-face veil came across the playground with up in the criminal justice system if they choose to follow her children and her husband, I suppose, as well. I their belief—not to follow his interpretation of Islam thought to myself, here I am, sitting in a children’s but their own? There are many interpretations. Some 579 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 580 choose the interpretation that they do not have to do to someone wearing a full-face balaclava as it would to this, and others choose to do it. Is it right, and is it good a woman—we must suppose it is a woman—wearing a for cohesion, if women find themselves criminalised burqa or a full-face veil. and in prison thanks to his Bill? Perhaps he should also There are an increasing number of instances—small, consider the impact on the prison population. but increasing—where criminal acts are taking place with men dressed as Islamic women in full burqas. Mr Hollobone: One thing we can all agree on is that There is real concern that criminals are using the get-out women who wear full-face veils are entirely lawful people of full Islamic dress to commit criminal acts, which of who would want to stick to the law. I have no indication course brings Islam into disrepute. that were my Bill to become an Act those women would seek to break the law. I do not believe that they would This is a difficult issue, but one that should not be be of criminal intent at all. In other countries where dodged. Such laws are working in other countries. I such legislation has been introduced, there have been believe that in France, for example, community cohesion only a very small number of infringements. In France, is better today as a result of the banning of the burqa for example, Islamic clerics have urged Muslim women than it was before such legislation was introduced. to comply with the law of the land, and there have been On a very basic level, this comes down to how we very few instances of women who have gone out of have a conversation with someone. I would not want to their way to break the law. have a conversation with someone whose face I could not see, nor would I expect them to have a conversation Keith Vaz: I am worried about the what the hon. with me. If we all want to rub along together in our Gentleman has just said. He has told the House that if great British society, one of the great unspoken tenets his Bill becomes law he would expect a lot of women, or of our way of life is the ability to see each other’s face. some women, to seek to break that law. I feel that this is, All my Bill will do is put that into law. in his view, a way of encouraging law-breaking and I am sorry that it has come to legislation and that encouraging a breakdown in the community cohesion people like me feel there is a need for such legislation, that we have in this country. Does he expect people to but unless we do something about this, an increasing want to break this law, and does he envisage that that number of people, mainly women and especially in our will happen? bigger cities, will be isolated from the British way of life—finding it difficult to speak English and engage Mr Hollobone: I think that the right hon. Gentleman with everyone else—because their culture and supposed may have misheard what I said. What I actually said religious beliefs are leading them to want to go out and was, I hope, completely the opposite of that. I think we about in public with their faces covered. I find that very established earlier in the debate that none of us is saying disappointing. I am alarmed by that and by the growing that veiled Muslim women are in any way unlawful. I number of people in our country who take part in am sure that they are highly respectful of the law. What demonstrations with their faces covered by full-face I said was that if my Bill were to become an Act, I am balaclavas, which makes it very difficult for the police to sure we would all expect those Muslim women to want police those demonstrations. to comply with the law, as has been the case in countries This is a difficult issue and we should debate it. It is a like France, Belgium and elsewhere where such a law is real concern in our country. I welcome the tone of in place. today’s debate and hope we can continue this constructive debate throughout the rest of this Session, because it is Philip Davies: May I return my hon. Friend to his important that these controversial issues are aired on excellent point about people wearing balaclavas and the Floor of the British House of Commons. veils? I am rather pleased that the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee is in his place, because at Heathrow airport I recently saw a woman in a full-face veil come 1.27 pm up to passport control and be waved through without Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): May I begin where having to remove her veil. I thought that that went the hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) ended against what the Government expect at immigration and say that I hope we can have a constructive debate control. Does my hon. Friend agree that if we did not on this subject? I think he will find that all Opposition have this politically correct pussy-footing around such and, indeed, Government Members who have intervened issues, and if the rules were applied more sensibly to on him—he was very generous in taking interventions— make sure that people in a veil were treated in exactly have been very constructive. That is the right way to the same way as people in a balaclava, perhaps the approach the subject. public support for something as draconian as his Bill—I accept that such support exists even though I do not I should say from the outset that I oppose the Second fully go along with his Bill—would not exist in the first Reading of this Bill and I am sure the hon. Gentleman place? is not surprised to hear that. I hope I will be able to demonstrate that he is wrong in his view that this Bill Mr Hollobone: That is an excellent intervention by would help achieve better cohesion in our country. my hon. Friend. I am not quite sure whether I accept I am very proud to be a Member of Parliament in the the word “draconian”. I do not know what the definition United Kingdom. I came here as a first-generation of “draconian” is, but it certainly does not sound very immigrant at the age of nine and I represent a city that good, and I am sure that it does not apply to my Bill. I is the most diverse in the country. I share the city with share his outrage, as I am sure my constituents will, that my hon. Friends the Members for Leicester South (Jonathan anyone should be waved through passport control if Ashworth) and for Leicester West (Liz Kendall), who is their face is covered. That outrage would apply as much not able to be here today. My hon. Friend the Member 581 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 582

[Keith Vaz] with an Islamic face covering to be subject to exactly the same requirement? It is not a question of whether they for Leicester South and I have both been enticed to this accept or refuse to do something, but whether they debate, but my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester should be required to do the same thing as others. Some West is probably in Leicester, doing her job there. people pussyfoot around that issue for politically correct I do not know whether the hon. Member for Kettering reasons. It would be very helpful if he made it clear that was in the Royal Gallery yesterday to hear Angela he expects the same from people with Islamic veil Merkel’s speech. I was there and I was struck by the coverings as from those with balaclavas. German Chancellor’s mention of this country’s values and how important freedom of speech and action is to Keith Vaz: I hope that I am not pussyfooting around it. The Bill seems to undermine that basic freedom. I the issue. If there has been an example of a security had always thought that the hon. Gentleman was on the breach and something needs to be fixed, we certainly side of freedom and that he was against Government need to consider that and to undertake proper consultation. imposing their views on the citizen, but I am not surprised I do not, however, know an example of that, apart from at the tenor of the interventions made by two other Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed wearing a burqa. I am freedom fighters, the hon. Members for Bury North sorry if the hon. Gentleman is not satisfied with that (Mr Nuttall) and for Shipley (Philip Davies). They answer, but I do not believe that we should sit here believe, as I thought the hon. Member for Kettering passing laws just for the sheer hell of it, or because did, that it is not for this place—let us call it the someone comes up to us in Kettering high street saying Westminster village; I do not know whether there is a that they do not like a woman in a burqa whom they better description—to impose on British citizens its met in a playgroup and we therefore decide we must views on how they should speak, dress and conduct change the law of the land. Frankly, I think that we themselves in a lawful manner. need to be very careful about these issues. If there are examples of something going wrong, of course we can change the law, but I have not seen that happening. Philip Davies: As the right hon. Gentleman knows, I agree with him on that point. Does he agree that it is important that where other people are expected to Mr Hollobone: The right hon. Gentleman is a very remove their face covering—such as a balaclava at a distinguished chairman of the Home Affairs Committee. petrol station, in a bank or at passport control—it is Does he share my concern about the case raised by my only right, proper and fair that people wearing a face hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) veil are asked to remove their face covering, so that about a woman wearing a burqa going through passport everyone is on a level playing field? That particular issue control without being stopped? Does he share my concern has caused the resentment that has led to a Bill such as that if we cannot see somebody’s face, they should not this one. be allowed through passport control until their identity has been established?

Keith Vaz: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman will Keith Vaz: The hon. Member for Kettering is supposed join me in opposing the Bill. He does not seem to be a to have seen this happen on departure. great fan of it, even though he likes some of the things that the hon. Member for Kettering said. Philip Davies: I saw it—coming into the country. I know of no example of an individual refusing to do what the hon. Member for Shipley said when the issue Keith Vaz: If for a person coming into the country, of security was paramount. I know of one security the immigration officer takes the passport, puts it under breach involving the burqa—Mohammed Ahmed the equipment provided and believes that it is right and Mohamed put one on at the mosque in Ealing and proper for the person to enter the country, they should escaped while he was on a terrorism prevention and be able to do so. If the immigration officer said to the investigation measure, although I know of another woman, “Well, I don’t think you are the person here”, person on a TPIM who did not put on a burqa, but got that is a separate issue. I know of no example of into a taxi and escaped from the authorities. I know of somebody refusing to remove their veil when asked to only one case, but I do not think that Mohammed do so to check their passport. The hon. Gentleman is Ahmed Mohamed, once he had put on a burqa and left not describing the actions of the woman in such an the mosque in Ealing, was asked to remove it. I do not incident, but those of an immigration officer, which is a therefore know of an example, but perhaps the hon. completely different issue. Gentleman does. I know that he frequently appears in, and often reads, the tabloid press, so if he has an Philip Davies: The point remains that my hon. Friend example of a security or legal issue where someone was the Member for Kettering and I have a clear belief that required to act reasonably and did not do so, I am everybody who comes into this country through passport happy for him to intervene. control wearing a full Islamic veil should be required, compulsorily, to remove the veil to identify themselves. Philip Davies: The right hon. Gentleman gave a very Does the right hon. Gentleman agree? I am disappointed, good answer, but unfortunately it did not relate to my as he is the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee, that question. I asked a much more specific question, and I he does not seem to agree. got the impression that, uncharacteristically, he was trying to dodge it. My question was: where anybody Keith Vaz: It is the law of the land that the immigration else would be expected to remove their particular face officer has to be satisfied that the person who enters the covering—for example, a balaclava at a petrol station, country is the person who holds the passport. I do not in a bank or at passport control—does he expect people know whether the hon. Gentleman had had a long 583 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 584 flight. Since he is a witness to history, I do not want to Keith Vaz: Shoes are also made in Leicester, as the challenge his version of events, but I would rather hon. Gentleman knows. We cannot afford the Church’s accept what the immigration officer seems to have done shoes that are made in Kettering, as he can. in this case. He or she seems to have been satisfied. If he The hon. Gentleman has not really answered my or she was not satisfied, they would most certainly have question. He is talking about the Kettering Muslim said to the person, “I don’t think this is you.” Association. My point is that such a hard-working constituency MP as the hon. Gentleman did not bother Philip Davies: How were they satisfied? to knock on the door of a single one of his Muslim constituents and ask what they thought of the Bill. Keith Vaz: I think that we need to leave it up to the immigration officer. The hon. Gentleman is many things, but he is not a trained immigration officer, unfortunately. Mr Hollobone: It’s not true. Perhaps we should consider that for the training of future Members of Parliament. Keith Vaz: All right, I will give way for the fourth time. What did they say when he knocked on their door? The hon. Member for Kettering talked about the number of people in Kettering who had approached him and called for such legislation. It does not appear Mr Hollobone: What the right hon. Gentleman is to be his idea, but an idea that has come from people in saying is simply not true. I knock on the doors of my his constituency. We all react to our constituents. Let constituents each and every week, and my postbag on me tell him what my constituents think of his Bill. The this issue, and my e-mail traffic and telephone calls, has 723 Muslims in Kettering, who represent 0.8% of its beaten all records on any issue. The idea that I do not population, may have felt that they could not talk to have a feel for how my constituents feel about the Bill is, him, but my constituents have had absolutely no problem I am afraid, simply misguided. in entering into a dialogue with me on the subject. Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. Mr Hollobone: It is absolutely not the case that 723 of We have had more than sufficient argument about the my constituents feel unable to approach me. The only number of doors knocked on by the hon. Member for difficulty has been that the Kettering Muslim Association Kettering (Mr Hollobone). That is not the business in has not allowed me to go to one of its meetings to take hand and we will now resume the debate on the Bill. questions and to discuss and debate the Bill. My door is always open to each and every one of my constituents, Keith Vaz: I felt I had to give the hon. Gentleman his whether they are Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Christian or fourth chance to intervene, but he has still not answered anything else. the question and told the House how many doors he has knocked on in respect of the Muslim community. Keith Vaz: I am delighted to hear it. What I find most Let me speak about Leicester East, which has 21,705 strange, from an assiduous constituency MP such as the Muslims—20% of my constituents. The constituency of hon. Member for Kettering, who has among the lowest my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester South has expenses claims of any Member of this House—I think even more than that. He is very proud of them, and we that he claims nothing, but his claims are certainly very are both proud of the multicultural nature of the great low—is that he should not have used his shoe leather, city of Leicester. I have received two separate petitions knocked on the doors of those 723 people in his from constituents, one with 700 plus signatures from constituency and asked them about the Bill that he is mosques across Leicester, including in my hon. Friend’s promoting. When I support a Bill that affects a certain constituency. Another with 300 signatures comes from section of my constituents—as this Bill will affect the Northfields Education Centre. One thousand people Muslim community in his area, my area, the area of my have signed petitions opposing what is proposed by the right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton hon. Member for Kettering. That is the largest petition (Sir Gerald Kaufman), the area of my hon. Friend the I have received since 1 January this year. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) I thank all those residents and mosques for their and, indeed, in Bury North and Shipley—I go out of campaign: in particular, Imam Adam from the Jamia my way to ask those constituents for their views so that mosque in Asfordby street, Imam Khalil from the I have a balanced view before I come to the House. Al-Bukhari mosque on Loughborough road, Imam Imtiaz Mr Hollobone rose— from the Masjid Ali on Smith Dorrien road, Imam Yasin from the Masjid Noor in Berner street, and Imam Keith Vaz: I will allow the hon. Gentleman to intervene Mogra from the Masjid Umar in Evington road in my one last time because other hon. Members want to hon. Friend’s constituency—I am sure that after this speak. I am happy to give way. debate he will be on his way to hold a surgery there. A further 50 constituents have e-mailed me, which is the Mr Hollobone: This is my third intervention on the largest number who have e-mailed on an issue so far this right hon. Gentleman and I think that he intervened on year. They may not have e-mailed in Kettering, but they me four times, so I might have another one up my are certainly e-mailing in Leicester. sleeve. There is absolutely no problem with my dialogue with Muslims in Kettering. I speak to all my constituents Jonathan Ashworth: I shall not list all the mosques all the time and use a great deal of shoe leather. Indeed, and imams who have got in touch with me, but a great shoes are made in Kettering in very large numbers. The number of my constituents have done so and I have only problem is that the Kettering Muslim Association received a number of petitions. If the House divides on will not allow me to address its members and take their this Bill I, like my right hon. Friend, will vote against it. concerns. It is not me who is blocking the dialogue. Is not the point that those women who have signed the 585 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 586

[Jonathan Ashworth] this country. What makes this country great is that we have people here from all over the world whose children petitions should have the choice of whether or not to were born here—like my children were—and who love wear the veil, in the same way that a Sikh man in this country and believe passionately in the values of Leicester has the choice of whether to wear a turban, multiculturalism. and a Hindu woman the choice of whether to wear a The Minister spends every day of his working life bindi on her forehead? This is about the freedom of talking about the cultural diversity of our country, choice. which includes the work that is done by the Muslim community. He will be among the first to tell the House Keith Vaz: It is; that is absolutely right. That is why I when he catches your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker, that am so astonished that the hon. Member for Kettering, what won us the Olympics was being able to show that great freedom fighter who has made so many London as a mirror to the world. So many different eloquent speeches in this House about the overweening languages and religions all come together in London, power of the state and who has criticised successive and there will never be an Olympic games like ours Governments because they were introducing legislation anywhere on planet Earth. London is special, Leicester to dictate to people what they should do, should be on is special and Manchester is special, and that makes this the wrong side of this argument. I am surprised that he country special—[Interruption.] Bradford is special, I is not with his hon. Friends the Members for Bury should add, as the hon. Member for Shipley leaves the North and for Shipley, in saying, “Let freedom reign.” Chamber. It is important that we are careful with the What he is proposing would affect the freedom of the precious gift of multiculturalism that we have been citizens of this country. I am talking about fully-fledged given. British citizens who may choose to wear a niqab or The hon. Member for Kettering may think that this is burqa and go about their daily business. a modest Bill, but it has provoked enormous controversy At my surgery in Leicester this evening, out of the in my constituency and among the 2.7 million Muslims 60 people I will see, at least one Muslim woman will nationwide. As my hon. Friend the Member for West come dressed in black in a burqa or hijab, and I will be Ham (Lyn Brown) will know, because she has a large able to see only her eyes. If I am satisfied on the basis of Muslim community in her very diverse constituency, the issues that she puts before me that as a constituent our constituents are at Friday prayers as we speak, so it she is entitled to my help, I will give her my help. I will is unlikely that they are watching this debate, although not do what some have suggested Members of Parliament we will of course send them copies of Hansard afterwards should do and ask her to remove her veil, because that because we want them to see what we have said on their is her choice. behalf. The fact is, however, that what makes this country I am not an Islamic scholar—as the hon. Gentleman special is diversity. is not—but I took the trouble of asking a couple of I know that the hon. Gentleman feels that he has Islamic scholars this morning about the authority for done no wrong in introducing his Bill. He is of course Muslim women dressing in the way that they choose to an elected Member of Parliament, and he can talk dress. The Koran instructs both Muslim men and women about whatever he wants to talk about in the Chamber. to dress in a modest way. The clearest verse on the That is another reason why this country is so special. requirement for the hijab is in chapter 24, verses 30 But he has caused controversy, and I am worried about to 31, which ask women to draw their khimar over their him, because he is normally a very fair and balanced bosoms. Two other verses in the Koran concern women’s person. I will not go down the route of how many doors dress. Verse 31 of the Surah an-Nur contains two commands that he has knocked on, Madam Deputy Speaker, because that particularly relate to women’s dress. The first is that I do not want to upset you again, but I think we shall women shall cover all of their beauty except find that, very unusually, he has taken the views of only “what is apparent of it” one section of his constituency. I doubt that he spoke to around men who are not related to them. The second is a single member of the Muslim community about the that women should extend their head coverings to cover Bill before presenting it to the House, because if he had the rest of their body, should they choose to do so. done so, he would have been aware of the concerns that Verse 59 of the Surah al-Ahzab commands that women would be raised in that community. shall wear long, loose outer garments when they go out I think that I dealt with the issue of security in from their houses. These two verses, taken together, set response to a number of points made by the hon. out three parts of the hijab or modest dress—the headscarf; Gentleman and by the hon. Member for Shipley. As for modest clothes that together with the headscarf cover the position in the courts, when a judge has required a everything but what has been exempted; and, for outdoors, person to remove a veil that person has, so far, done so. a modest outer garment to cover the clothes. As the hon. Gentleman said, the legal profession is The hon. Gentleman is involved in so many important concerned because some of the stuff that goes on in issues of state in this House; he is a great authority on court is not just about voice, and may be about demeanour. the European Union; and he is here at 2.30 pm almost I am not suggesting that it is somehow possible to look every day to speak about all these great issues. I often at someone’s face and know immediately whether that come to listen to him, and we are on the same side on person is telling the truth. After all, the hon. Gentleman the question of a European referendum—but I will not misjudged my face earlier: he thought that I was making go into that as it is not mentioned in the Bill. I am a funny face, but it was actually my normal face. therefore astonished that he should want to interfere in I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman is the issue of the clothing of Muslim women, and that he making, but our current system already covers it. In feels—somehow—that the fact that a woman chooses November last year, the Lord Chief Justice initiated a to wear a burqa undermines the multicultural nature of consultation with the judiciary and the Bar to see what 587 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 588 they thought about the issue. However, the hon. Gentleman The Bill deals with a matter which, while we may not has been unable to cite any case from the tabloids, or like to admit it, is a concern for many people, because it from the internet worldwide, in which someone has is unusual in this country. Traditionally, of course, it been asked to remove a face covering and has refused to has not been usual for many believers in the Christian do so. The only security-related case that can be cited is religion to cover the front of their face, although, as my the one involving Mohammed Ahmed Mohamed, who hon. Friend the Member for Kettering said, it was put on a burqa and left a mosque in Ealing. Ibrahim traditional for Christians to cover their heads in going Magag did not put on a burqa when he went out of his about their everyday business. In my early life I attended house and hailed a taxi in order to leave the country. It a Christian church at which many of the women would is not as if that is happening every day; it is very cover their heads; they made a special point of wearing exceptional and very unusual. I therefore do not think a hat in church. Conversely, men were expected to take that the security issue should concern us in the context their hats off. I should declare an interest: I am a of the Bill. practising Christian and a church warden, and in that Let me make three more points. First, although this role still to this day I have sometimes very gently and may not have been the hon. Gentleman’s intention—he discreetly had to ask gentlemen to remove their headgear may have presented his Bill because he wanted a wider when they enter church wearing a hat, just because of debate on the issues, or because his constituents were the sensitivities particularly of some of the older members concerned—the Muslim community feel very strongly of our congregation. that it discriminates against members of their faith. As I I am conscious of the fact that other Members have have said, 20% of my constituents are members of the waited very patiently and want to speak on this matter, Muslim faith. Although I am a Catholic, I represent so I will not use up all the time and will instead try to people from different religions, and if someone comes allow sufficient time for others to speak, but I do want to me and says “This discriminates against me as a to make two brief points. First, the difficulty with this Muslim”, I believe that person. whole topic is that there are two groups that would be Secondly, there is the far more fundamental issue of most affected by introducing a general ban on face the violation of a woman’s right to choose what she coverings. In the first of those groups are those whose wants to wear and where she wants to wear it. Thirdly, primary purpose, having committed or intending to there is the general point that we should be extremely commit a crime, is to escape detection by covering their careful about intervening to tell our citizens what they face. I think we all agree that that is wrong, and it would should wear in this country. There can be no end to be helpful if there were some way to separate that group that: we shall be on the slippery slope. The hon. Gentleman from the rest, because we do not want to see that does not like political correctness—his whole political happening. life has been opposed to it—but he is paving the way for The second group comprises those who wish to cover more legislation providing for it. their face for religious reasons. As we have heard, there is a debate about whether it is necessary for a female I think that if the hon. Gentleman reflects, he will follower of the Islamic religion to wear a veil. I am not realise that rather than putting his Bill to the vote, he an Islamic scholar, and I do not know the rights and should withdraw it and engage in the consultations in wrongs of this matter. There will be all sorts of views on which he ought to be engaging in Kettering and throughout whether that is right or wrong, but from my point of the country. If members of the Kettering Muslim view, that does not really matter. My view is that if that Association will not talk to him, I shall invite him to is what they believe to be right, that should be the end of come to Leicester and talk to members of the Federation the matter. of Muslim Organisations there. They will tell him exactly what they feel about the subject. I urge him—I beg Mr Hollobone: Throughout his speech, the right hon. him—not to force the Bill to a vote. Let us accept that it Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) kept insinuating will not help us to retain the wonderful multicultural that I had not spoken to Muslim constituents about the country in which we live. Bill. On the contrary, I have had lots of conversations about it with Muslims in Kettering. Some of them have 1.54 pm made the point that they are embarrassed, as Muslims, by Muslim women going around wearing full-face veils. Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): It is a pleasure, Does my hon. Friend accept that there are Muslim as always, to follow the right hon. Member for Leicester women in Kettering who have a problem with face East (Keith Vaz), Chairman of the Home Affairs coverings? Committee. I agree with much of what he has just said, as I agree with him about the need for this country to Mr Nuttall: My hon. Friend makes the good point have its say in a referendum on whether we remain that there are different views even among the Muslim members of the European Union. I suspect we are on community on the merits or otherwise of people choosing different sides in that argument, however, although we to cover their face. are on the same side in this debate. I take the view that, regardless of one’s religious The Bill was very well introduced by my hon. Friend belief, we should not ban things just because some the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), with whom people disapprove of them. I will not go into the I almost always agree. He was supported in bringing statistics from the opinion polls, but they suggest that a the Bill to the House by my hon. Friends the Members large majority of British adults agree with the sentiment for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) and for Christchurch of my hon. Friend’s Bill, with 61% agreeing with the (Mr Chope), and I am sorry that they are not able to be statement that the burqa should be banned in Britain, in the Chamber today so that we can hear and debate and 32% disagreeing. Those figures were taken from a with them their views on this matter. YouGov poll taken last September. 589 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 590

Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): The hon. Gentleman and threatening them with arrest if they do not comply. sought to make a comparison with the Christian faith. In spite of the general wording of this Bill, it is clear The Christian faith is very diverse, and includes Greek that it is designed to target Muslim women who wear and Russian Orthodox, Presbyterian, Free Presbyterian the burqa or the niqab, both of which cover the face, as and Catholic followers. Similarly, Islam is a diverse a means of religious or cultural expression. It is important, faith, given the ways in which Muslims worship their therefore, that we set this debate in context. According God. to the 2011 census, Muslims make up just 4.8% of the population of England and Wales, and only a very Mr Nuttall: The hon. Gentleman is right. As with small number of women in that 4.8% wear the full face most religions, the extent to which someone observes veil. In my constituency of West Ham—one of the most the requirements of their religion can vary from Church ethnically diverse areas of the country, and home to a to Church, from sect to sect and from individual to large Muslim community from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh individual. Some people go to church every week, or as and Africa—there is not a significant number, and this often as they can. Others who also regard themselves as is not a significant issue. Nationally, we are talking religious go only once a month or once a year. All, in about a tiny minority of an already small community. their own way, will regard themselves as religious people, As for the issue of recognition on the streets, surely but their observance might be quite different. the hon. Gentleman cannot be demanding that each The Bill deals with what is undoubtedly seen as a and every one of us should be instantly recognisable as problem in many sections of our community, but it we walk down the street. Surely he does not want us all would be wrong for us to introduce a general ban on to look up as we pass a closed circuit television camera face coverings. As my hon. Friend the Member for and smile. There is a fine line between demanding facial Shipley (Philip Davies) said, clauses 2 and 3 would recognition in all public places, and the realisation of a merit further debate. When an individual is required to Big Brother state, and the Bill, I fear, is on the wrong remove their face-covering for the purpose of establishing side of it. identity, they should have to do so. The same applies when they are on private premises. However, in general Keith Vaz: My hon. Friend represents a diverse terms, I will oppose the Bill this afternoon. constituency, and she also represents non-Muslims. Has anyone written to her to support what the hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) proposes? 2.5 pm Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab): I say gently to the hon. Lyn Brown: Nobody has written to me on this issue at Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) that he is well all, as yet. known for calling for the cutting of legislation and the The worst thing about the Bill is that, even if peeling back of red tape that restricts the freedoms of unintentionally, it targets a minority community in this the British public, so regardless of what we might think country and contravenes their freedom of expression, personally about the issue, I am rather surprised that he of religion and of free speech. It creates the very divisions seeks to regulate in an area where regulation is unlikely it purports to be removing. The Bill will have the effect, to be enforceable. whether or not this is recognised by the hon. Member If this highly illiberal Bill ever made it to the statute for Kettering, of imprisoning in their own homes the book, we would see an increase in the number of people very women he claims he will rescue from oppression. I with face coverings, not the decrease that the hon. fear that this Bill may have been motivated in part by a Gentleman seeks. In a fundamentally British tradition, misconception that Muslim women are neither politicised the introduction of such an illiberal law would encourage nor capable of making their own choices about what civil disobedience and an affinity with those who were they wear—the Muslim women I meet in West Ham are seen to be targeted by the measure. In fact, I think that certainly both. those completely unaffected by the legislation would Let us look at the results of the ban in France, which deliberately don facial coverings in demonstration against was implemented in April 2011. There has been only this illiberal Act. I confess that when I was a student one conviction since its introduction, and I admit that I union president—only a few years ago, obviously—I have a very different view from the hon. Gentleman would have led as many students as possible in about what that teaches us. An Open Society Justice demonstration against such an iniquitous law. We would Initiative report on the results of the French ban reveals have donned veils, marched, and taken the consequences. that the majority of Muslim women in France who Of course, in some professions and services—for wore the veil have not stopped wearing it. Those women those in hospitals and police forces, or for firefighters, believe the law to be an affront to their religious rights, for example—dress codes are prescribed, but that is a and since the ban came in, some have, predictably, very different issue from restricting personal freedom in started to wear the niqab. Thus, an otherwise law-abiding public places. It is right that the police and other law group have potentially been criminalised and, indeed, enforcement agencies have powers to ask individuals to barred from participation in public life. remove face coverings—for example, to remove balaclavas The report also highlights the increased mental health during riots. As far as I am aware, however, this new law issues that these women face, as well as their social is not being called for by the police, and to give the hon. anxiety, their fear and their overwhelming reliance on Gentleman his due, he did not suggest that. male relatives, which they did not have before. Their The Bill is careful to exempt people obscuring their movement has been heavily restricted and they now feel faces for any activity or reason other than reasons of unable to walk freely in public, fearing abuse or attack personal choice or religious belief. The Bill is about by members of the public—and possible arrest by a singling out Muslim women, telling them how to dress, policeman. Far from this law creating social cohesion in 591 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill28 FEBRUARY 2014 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 592

France, these women report “legitimised” Islamaphobic and of the individual choices of women. We must also attacks and speak of how, in effect, in passing the law understand the damage that such legislation would the state has sanctioned racist intolerance and abuse. bring. That law not merely affirmed a wider prejudice against This House has a responsibility to lead the work a section of the French community; it emboldened towards strengthening the bonds that tie communities those who seek to divide society and prevent integration. together. It should not stoke the flames of suspicion Is that really the kind of society we wish to create in and fear and the illogical hatred of difference that rip Britain today? those communities apart. We want to build a society of tolerance, cohesion, understanding and pluralism. The state should not seek 2.16 pm to discriminate against its own people on the basis of how they look or dress. In opposing the progress of this Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): I will be damaging Bill, we defend the right of women to make brief, because my right hon. Friend the Member for their own independent choices about how they dress. Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) is keen to Although I am sure that some who wear the veil will do say a few words. My right hon. Friend the Member for so in keeping with the values of their own families or Leicester East (Keith Vaz) spoke eloquently on behalf relatives, it is equally true that many women wear the of Leicester, so I do not need to repeat the points he veil because of deeply held religious or personal convictions. made. I entirely agree with everything he said. I will not condone the wearing of anything under the If this House divides on the Bill, I will vote against it, duress of others, but we should recognise that for many because it has caused considerable distress to many of Muslim women that is far from what is happening. It is my constituents. I have had petitions from various a perfectly consistent position to condemn both those mosques and e-mails from many constituents expressing who force women to wear the veil and those who seek to upset and outrage. They fear that the United Kingdom prohibit the wearing of it. will follow in the footsteps of France and Belgium and So let us be clear: I do not believe it is for me, or ban the niqab. They do not understand how private indeed for this House, to decide what women should or Members’ Bills work. There is something rather ironic should not wear. It is not for the state to be prescriptive about the hon. Gentleman wanting to follow Europe in on this and, least of all, to criminalise the individual this matter. choices of women. This issue is about taking away the Quite simply, this is about freedom of choice. It is freedom of choice from a very small portion of our about the right of women in my constituency to choose community. That offends the British values that I hold whether to wear the niqab. Plenty of them make the dear: freedom of speech, fairness and choice. choice to wear it, but I suspect that the majority of Some recent high-profile cases have indicated the them probably do not. For those who do, it is right that need, however, for exceptions, whereby the veil should they should have the choice. be lifted. I am talking, for example, of the case last year Like my right hon. Friend, I meet such women regularly at Blackfriars Crown Court. I welcome the consultation at my surgeries and at events, and I have no problem on the issue of wearing the veil in some legal settings, communicating with them. They talk to me passionately but it is emphatically the responsibility of judges to about the state of the local health service, local schools provide this guidance, and not for this House to intervene. and local police—the sorts of issues that all MPs get to Of course there is a need for identification at the UK deal with. I engage with them and talk to them directly. border, or in other circumstances for security reasons. It does not cause me any problems whatever. This is That is already provided for in legislation; we do not about their freedom of choice. It is the same as a Sikh need to add to it. The vast majority of Muslim women gentleman having the freedom to wear a turban and a recognise that the needs of security are paramount in Hindu woman a bindi. People of other faiths have the certain circumstances and are happy to remove their right to celebrate their religion in my constituency. veil for identification. I welcome the provision of female I am conscious of time, so I will finish now with a officers in such cases so that women can comfortably quote from one of my constituents. She speaks and remove the veil to prove their identity. All of those cases writes eloquently—much better than I ever could. She are specific, and none provides any excuse for the wrote to me this morning, saying, “As a British Asian Government to criminalise wearing the veil in all public girl who was born and brought up in the United Kingdom, places and at all times. I have always been led to believe that England is a free The hon. Gentleman has suggested that he finds the country, making us swell with pride and gratitude that, veil offensive to him and to his sense of Britishness, but unlike many other countries, I am able to practise my I do not believe it is reasonable for us to live our lives in religion without enduring any difficulty.” I could not the expectation of not being offended. I get offended by have put it better myself. I oppose the Bill. some comments from Government Members, by some humour and by all-male game show panels on TV. I get offended on an almost daily basis by something I read 2.19 pm in the press, but I do not think I have the right not to be Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): offended. What could be more offensive to a sense of The hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), with British social cohesion than an arbitrary ban on what whom I worked closely in the all-party parliamentary some choose to wear? group on Palestine, talked about the traditional British I remind the House of the irony that this debate takes way of life. I do not know what the traditional British place a scant week away from international women’s way of life is. This country has been conquered and day—a day that celebrates the choices and freedoms inhabited by waves of immigrants ever since the Romans that this Bill seeks to restrict. We must understand that came here. Manchester is called Manchester because this is an issue not for the state but of personal identity the Romans went there and they had a camp, which was 593 Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill 28 FEBRUARY 2014 594

[Sir Gerald Kaufman] A little while ago the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) introduced a ten-minute rule Bill that would castra, which became the suffix chester. We have had have required the labelling of halal and kosher food. I the Danes and the Norwegians. Of my constituents, opposed it and had it chucked out, and I did so because 40% originate from Ireland. They are as loyal and as small minorities have a particular right to be recognised British as anybody else. They worship in a Catholic and regarded. In this country we are ruled by majorities, church. I have a large number of Muslims in my which is absolutely right, but that does not mean that constituency. I do not have so many Jews, but I am a the minority must be overruled by the majority. I have Jew myself. I was brought up in Jewish surroundings received no indication whatsoever that people will be with kosher food, going to Hebrew school and the lining the streets to cheer the hon. Member for Kettering. synagogue on Friday evening and Saturday morning. Is that the traditional British way of life? It is part of the Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland way of life. The way in which Muslims live in this West) (Lab): I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for country is another part of the British way of life. It is giving way when he is so short of time. I recently asked not for us to tell them how they should live. a woman who was wearing a veil why she felt the need to cover her face, and she replied that it made her feel I was mugged here in London by two muggers with closer to God. Is that not her choice? balaclavas over their faces. There was no breach of the law in their wearing the balaclavas as distinct from the Sir Gerald Kaufman: Every one of us, from our fact that they stole a great many things from me. The constituencies and from our daily lives, has the ability hon. Gentleman talks about identification when one is to contribute validly and constructively to the debate, as voting, but people are not identified when they go to the my hon. Friend has just done. polling station on the basis of their faces. We do not have photo ID in this country. They are identified by Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I applaud their names and addresses. Muslim women wearing the what my right hon. Friend has said. Does he not think veil vote in exactly the same way as everybody else. that the Bill, were it to become law, would be the start of a very slippery slope and that we would be insisting on a The hon. Gentleman is an honourable gentleman, kind of secularist conformity that would be damaging and while he says that he is doing this without pressure to the diversity of our communities, particularly from constituents, there is a possibility that if he had constituencies of the sort that he and I have the honour 7,000 Muslim constituents he might have thought up to represent? another subject for his private Member’s Bill. It is not a question of us being here to obey our constituents Sir Gerald Kaufman: I very much agree with my hon. whatever they say, and to reflect their views whatever Friend. their views may be. If constituents tell me that they are Over the years we have had too many restrictions on in favour of capital punishment, as no doubt a number our civil liberties for all kinds of reasons. I might as well are, I will not vote for capital punishment because some tell the House that when I was a junior Minister in the constituents want it. If constituents of mine are in Labour Government I nearly resigned when, after the favour of fox hunting and hunting with dogs, I will not Birmingham bombings, Roy Jenkins introduced what I listen to them just because they are constituents who regarded to be oppressive legislation relating to the may or may not vote for me. containment of terrorism. He did that for constituency This is a variegated country with variegated religions. reasons—he was a Birmingham MP. We are all subject When the Police and Criminal Evidence Bill went through to pressures, but the main reason I am proud to be the House, we had a deliberate provision with regard to British is that this is a country of tolerance. Indeed, stop and search that Sikh men should not be required to tolerance is the wrong word. I do not believe that we remove their turbans by the police. If one is going to say have the right to “tolerate” women who wear the veil or that people change or conceal their appearance, ultra- to make a judgment on them, because it is their choice. I Orthodox Jewish women are required to wear wigs. have all kinds of choices about the way I live my life, They are not allowed to show their own hair. People live and people have the right to have opinions about them. in different ways because this is a marvellous democracy Rushanara Ali: Does my right hon. Friend share my with freedom of choice. Not many of the Muslim concerns about the dangers of such legislation leading women in my constituency wear the veil, but I will stand to more Islamophobic and racist attacks against women, up for their right to do so, because that is their choice. which have been growing for a long time against the We do not live in a country in which the law tells people British Muslim community? Does he agree that if the how to dress. Bill is supported, although I completely oppose it— Keith Vaz: My right hon. Friend is making a passionate 2.30 pm speech that draws on his wide experience. Has he received The debate stood adjourned (Standing Order No. 11(2)). any representations from any groups in his constituency supporting what the hon. Member for Kettering Ordered, That the debate be resumed on Friday 16 May. (Mr Hollobone) wants to do, because I have not? Business without Debate Sir Gerald Kaufman: I have not received any representations whatsoever in favour of the Bill, but I NATIONAL SERVICE BILL have received many that oppose it. However, even if Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second I had not received a single such representation, I would time. still oppose it, out of principle. I would oppose it because we do not live in a democracy in which people Hon. Members: Object. can be restricted in the way they conduct their lives. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 May. 595 Business without Debate28 FEBRUARY 2014 Business without Debate 596

EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES ACT 1972 Hon. Members: Object. (REPEAL) BILL Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 6 June. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. CONTROL OF OFFSHORE WIND TURBINES Hon. Members: Object. BILL Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 May. Resumption of adjourned debate on Question (17 January), That the Bill be now read a Second time. REGULATION OF THE PRIVATE RENTED Hon. Members: Object. SECTOR BILL Debate to be resumed on Friday 16 May. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Hon. Members: Object. EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITES BILL Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 May. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

PRISONS (DRUG TESTING) BILL Hon. Members: Object. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 May. time.

Hon. Members: Object. EU MEMBERSHIP (AUDIT OF COSTS AND Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 6 June. BENEFITS) BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. COUNSELLORS AND PSYCHOTHERAPISTS (REGULATION) BILL Hon. Members: Object. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 May. time.

Hon. Members: Object. ASYLUM (TIME LIMIT) BILL Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 6 June. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. HATE CRIME (PEOPLE WITH LEARNING DIFFICULTIES AND LEARNING DISABILITIES) Hon. Members: Object. BILL Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 May. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. FOREIGN NATIONALS (ACCESS TO PUBLIC Hon. Members: Object. SERVICES) BILL Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 6 June. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. GANGMASTERS LICENSING AUTHORITY (EXTENSION OF POWERS) BILL Hon. Members: Object. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 May. time.

Hon. Members: Object. HOUSE OF LORDS (MAXIMUM MEMBERSHIP) BILL Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 6 June. Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time. ZERO HOURS CONTRACTS BILL Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second Hon. Members: Object. time. Bill to be read a Second time on Friday 16 May. 597 28 FEBRUARY 2014 Community Radio Licences 598

Community Radio Licences acquire a permanent licence. It also broadcasts on DAB, but that is a problem as well; I will turn to that in Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House a moment. do now adjourn.—(Greg Hands.) In the two or three years for which MKFM has been broadcasting, it has quickly built up an impressive 2.34 pm reputation as a real champion of the local community. In a new town such as Milton Keynes, where we do not Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): First, have as long a history of an established community as Madam Deputy Speaker, may I say what a great pleasure other places, it is particularly important to have local and privilege it is to have you in the Chair for this champions like a community radio station to give support debate today? I believe it is the first time I have made a to all the different activities, events and campaigns that full speech with you in the Chair, and it is a great go on in the area. During the relatively short time the honour to see you in your place. station has been broadcasting, it has received great I am very grateful for the opportunity to raise the testimonials from local organisations. I have letters issue of the MKFM radio station in my constituency from the citizens advice bureaux, the Milton Keynes and the difficulties it is having in obtaining a permanent Dons sports and education trust, the food bank, Milton FM broadcasting licence from Ofcom. Before I move Keynes council and local charities, such as the Henry on to the specifics of the issue, I will set out MKFM’s Allen Appeal and Hope for Hollie. They all greatly role in the provision of radio stations in the Milton endorse MKFM’s role in championing their causes and Keynes area. Milton Keynes, like anywhere else in the its engagement with the local community. country, has access to all the national radio stations. I When I go out and about in my constituency to all believe that radio is becoming an increasingly important the sports events, summer carnivals and charity appeals— medium in transmitting news, entertainment and thought- you name it—MKFM is there, not just reporting what provoking programmes. I personally probably spend is happening, but giving a bit of pizzazz and excitement more time listening to the radio these days than watching to the particular event. It is becoming a cherished television. Whether I am listening to the “Today” addition to the local community in Milton Keynes. programme or my favourite John Suchet Classic FM The problem with not being on FM is that the station programme, it is a great source of information and is restricted in who it can broadcast to. It has had five pleasure. one-month trials on an FM frequency under the Ofcom In addition to the national stations, Milton Keynes is procedures and that has been enormously successful, fortunate to have two local radio stations—BBC Three but just when it gets traction in building up an expanded Counties Radio and Heart, which happens to be based listenership, the trial comes to an end and it is not able in Milton Keynes. These provide a valuable local service, to sustain it. but there is a gap in the market for a specific Milton As I have said, the station is now broadcasting on Keynes radio station. BBC Three Counties and Heart DAB, which is an important step forward, but it is not do a very good job reporting local news, stories and ideal. It has a cost implication. I am told by MKFM campaigns, and they engage enormously with the local that the transmission cost is in the region of £50,000 a community. For example, when my hon. Friend the year, which is a significant sum for a community radio Member for Milton Keynes North (Mark Lancaster) station to bear. Moreover, not everyone has a DAB and I organised a jobs fair last year, Heart was able to radio. According to the figures I have—the Minister help by advertising it on its station and providing other may have more up-to-date and accurate figures—only practical support at the fair. BBC Three Counties regularly about 50% of the population have access to a DAB has me on to talk about particular local stories, and it radio. The Minister may recall a debate last year in does a very good job representing the local area. which a number of colleagues, who were very keen to However, because of the trends in radio broadcasting, get the names of their local stations on the record and neither of those stations is specifically for Milton Keynes. for them to be broadcast on FM, had concerns about Cost pressures and other commercial issues mean that the digital switchover process, but that is a matter for they have to cover a wider area than just Milton Keynes. another day. Heart used to be called Horizon, and initially it was just MKFM is absolutely convinced that in order for it to for the Milton Keynes area, but now it includes the fulfil its potential it needs a permanent FM licence. I surrounding counties. The same goes for BBC Three understand that the process is not simple or straightforward. Counties. As its name suggests, it has never been just for The spectrum does not have an abundance of spare the Milton Keynes area, but it used to have a specific slots that can just be handed out to anyone. In advance Milton Keynes news output. In changes made a couple of this debate I received a very useful briefing from of years ago, the specific Milton Keynes service was Ofcom in which it explained the technical reasons why lost, and the station is now broadcast throughout the the spectrum is crowded, that it can award new licences three counties. only in particular circumstances, and that it does not I do not in any way wish to diminish the importance want to cause interference to other stations. I understand of those stations and the role they play in Milton all that and accept that Ofcom has a relatively limited Keynes, but I do believe there is room, in addition to the budget to process applications for new licenses. national and local stations, for a very specific Milton MKFM’s situation, however, is particularly problematic, Keynes-focused radio station, and that is where MKFM because Ofcom’s timetable to allocate new licences to comes in. It has been broadcasting since 2011. It is on such stations has changed. MKFM’s business plan and the internet—online—all the time. On a number of strategy were based on a timetable published in 2011, occasions, it has been able to broadcast on FM for which was in place until last December. In that timetable, one-month segments, but it has not yet been able to the south-east of England, in which Milton Keynes 599 Community Radio Licences28 FEBRUARY 2014 Community Radio Licences 600 falls, was the last of seven areas from which applications curious south-east region, which swoops right down would be invited in the first half of this year. Last year, past London to include the Isle of Wight and round to however, the timetable changed and now nine blocks of Kent and the Isle of Thanet. applications have to be considered, the south-east being It has always been incongruous that Milton Keynes is the ninth. The timetable has also been pushed back to part of the south-east when we naturally look to the second half of this year. The reason for that was Northamptonshire and Bedfordshire as our main economic twofold: first, a decision was made to include applications partners. Indeed, such a change is happening in other from community radio stations in Guernsey, and secondly, areas of public and commercial life. For the boundaries applications were invited for stations wishing to broadcast of the local enterprise partnership, Milton Keynes is on the AM band. partners with Northamptonshire, Bedfordshire and The six-month delay is likely to be compounded by surrounding areas. Many of the reconfigurations in the growing evidence that it is taking longer for licences to NHS have made Milton Keynes look north and east, be assessed and approved. In the first and second tranches rather than to the rest of the south-east. I am sure that of the timetable, it took an average of three to four it would be relatively simple to transfer Milton Keynes months from an application being received to a decision to the midlands and east of England bloc from the being made, but the third and fourth tranches are now south-east, where there are great pressures on the existing taking nearly a year. Given those two factors, MKFM’s spectrum. bid will be one to two years later than it anticipated, Finally, if that option is not practical and the primary which will cause it significant difficulties for its business obstacle is Ofcom’s organisational and financial capacity strategy. to consider Milton Keynes more quickly, MKFM has suggested that it would be willing to pay a premium Why was it necessary to put Guernsey in front of the application fee, perhaps in the region of £10,000. If it south-east of England in the timetable? I have absolutely and other stations in a similar situation did that, it nothing against Guernsey. I am sure that it is a lovely might allow Ofcom to take on additional staff to assess place. I have not yet had the opportunity to visit it, but I the applications in a more timely fashion. hope to do so one day. The Bailiwick of Guernsey has a population of 66,000 and is already served by two I hope that the Minister will give those problems and dedicated local radio stations—the BBC station and the possible solutions serious consideration. MKFM has commercial Island FM. I am sure that they are excellent quickly established itself as a cherished community stations that provide very good local coverage, but I am radio station. It complements BBC Three Counties, not sure why there is a pressing demand for community Heart and the national broadcasters. It is a huge asset in radio stations in addition to the two island-wide ones. the Milton Keynes area and I would be hugely disappointed Milton Keynes has a population of 250,000, and we do if its ambition to broadcast permanently on an FM not have a dedicated community radio station with a frequency was further thwarted. permanent FM licence. Will the Minister comment on why there was a sudden change in priorities? Why have applications for AM broadcasting been considered ahead 2.50 pm of the assessment of bids for the south-east of England? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, I would appreciate some feedback on why that has Media and Sport (Mr Edward Vaizey): I am not sure happened. that I can welcome you to the Chair, Madam Deputy I appreciate the constraints under which Ofcom has Speaker, in as fulsome a fashion as my hon. Friend the to operate, and neither I nor MKFM want to moan Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart). I about this problem; I sought this debate to try to secure confess that I do not know whether this is the first time the Minister’s consideration of some potential solutions. that I have made a full speech in front of you, but I I would be grateful if he took them away and used his know that I have appeared in the Chamber when you good offices to discuss them with Ofcom. have been in the Chair. I echo what he said about it being a great honour and privilege to debate in front of The first suggestion is simply to restore the south-east’s you. It is my understanding that you own a digital position in the original timetable. There may be perfectly radio. That is a subject to which I may turn my attention good reasons why that cannot happen, but if so, they during my remarks. are not apparent either to me or to MKFM. The second I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Milton possibility is to consider all the remaining regions for Keynes South for bringing this important issue to the FM licence applications—including the west midlands, attention of the House. He began by talking about his the east midlands, the east of England and the south- radio habits and revealed a penchant for Radio 4 and east—as one bloc, and to identify which parts of that Classic FM, which I share. I am a strong of larger area have the greatest need for community radio Classic FM. I take a busman’s holiday view that we licences. spend so much time in this House debating the news If the argument against that option is that Ofcom and politics that it is nice to switch off, so I have taken does not have the financial or organisational capacity to to listening to Classic FM and the Chris Evans breakfast assess a much larger geographic region, I would make a show on Radio 2 instead of listening to Radio 5 Live third suggestion—that Milton Keynes is moved out of and Radio 4, which is my usual habit. the south-east region, where there is already considerable My hon. Friend brought to our attention the important congestion on the airwaves, to the midlands and east of radio station, MKFM. I confess that I have not yet England bloc. I wish I had an audiovisual display to listened to it, but I have visited its website. It certainly show a map of the south-east of England. Milton looks like an incredibly impressive operation. Indeed, Keynes is right up in the top north-west corner of the this debate is flagged up as the No. 1 news issue on its 601 Community Radio Licences28 FEBRUARY 2014 Community Radio Licences 602

[Mr Edward Vaizey] radio stations are reporting problems and struggling to remain viable, with some stations reporting a decline in website at the moment. I have no doubt that, after this income and difficulties in accessing funding. That is debate, my hon. Friend will be a frequent, if not more supported by Ofcom’s market analysis, which shows frequent, guest on that important radio station. that community radio stations have consistently operated My remarks may appear to be somewhat facetious, on very small margins. For example, in each of the last but I completely echo what my hon. Friend said: I, too, four years, the average expenditure of the sector has am a fan of radio. In this digital age, when one’s been greater than the average income. attention is diverted to so many different ways of accessing Ofcom’s communications market report of 2013 showed content and to so many new types of content, it is my that the percentage share of income generated by belief, and the evidence shows this, that the medium of community radio stations from grants fell from 45% in radio is as popular as, if not more popular than, it ever 2008 to 29% in 2012. That figure is likely to fall still was. I am therefore a strong supporter of the measures further, although it is partly offset by a slight increase in that we are undertaking to continue to promote radio. the overall value of on-air advertising and sponsorship One of those measures is to support digital radio. My revenue, which increased in 2012 from 26% to 29%. It is hon. Friend was right to recall the debate in this House important to make such points because I want to bring at the end of last year. We have not yet announced a the attention of the House to the consultation that we date for switchover or even made an in-principle decision launched a couple of weeks ago on 13 February. It is a on when we might switch over to digital radio. However, wide-ranging consultation on the funding rules that we do not want to lose the momentum towards digital apply to community radio, because we want to consider radio that has been built up by putting in place the how we can relax some of the rules and restrictions on infrastructure, encouraging people to buy digital radios how community radio is funded. It is a consultation and encouraging people to convert their cars to digital that the community radio community has long called radio, which is becoming ever easier and cheaper to do. for. We think that restrictions are still needed to preserve That will help a station such as MKFM, which is the distinctive characteristics of community radio and broadcasting on digital radio, as my hon. Friend pointed ensure that small commercial radio stations are not out. Milton Keynes tends to be ahead of the trend and adversely affected. The consultation will close on its rate of digital radio ownership is ahead of the 23 April, and will enable us to assess the extent to which national average, probably beaten only by places such as rules can be relaxed to give community radio more London. scope to raise funding, and to help the sector’s long-term sustainability. It is important to stress that digital radio remains an increasingly important part of the radio mix. Another Although there are challenges to community radio, I important element of the radio mix, which we could am encouraged by high levels of demand for community perhaps say is at the other end of the spectrum, is radio licences across many parts of the country. I fully community radio. The framework for community radio understand my hon. Friend’s desire for his constituency was set up in 2004 by the last Government. In my view, radio station, MKFM, to establish itself as a local it has been an astounding success. Community radio is community radio station. The regulatory framework run by not-for-profit organisations that provide a social was set out in the Community Radio Order 2004, and gain to the communities they serve. It provides original, lists the powers under which Ofcom can license community distinctive and—crucially—local output, and relies on a radio stations. That gets to the nub of what my hon. huge amount of effort and support, with stations receiving Friend wishes to discuss. an average of around 214 volunteering hours every Detailed implementation of licensing is the responsibility week. They are supported by the Community Media of Ofcom, and in developing its approach to licensing Association, which does a fantastic job of representing and regulating the sector—including the current licensing the sector and providing information and advice to round, which is the subject of concern to my hon. stations and prospective start-ups. Community radio Friend and MKFM—Ofcom has consulted a range of has shown that it can deliver wider social objectives, stakeholders, including the Community Media Association. connect communities together, and give a real focus for Ofcom has decided to invite applications for licences on local engagement. It does not surprise me that in a a region-by-region basis, to co-ordinate the approach in community the size of Milton Keynes, there should be a a fair and consistent way, and to give prospective applicants great deal of pressure to see the community radio time to develop strong and sustainable proposals. Within station MKFM launch as soon as possible. The value of that framework, the licensing process is applicant-led, the sector is not just in its listening share or reach, but in and the applicant identifies where they wish to set up the lives it touches and often changes for the better. their station. Ofcom does not decide the locations or The recent connect:transmit project is a good example target communities to be served by stations, but it does of how community radio comes together to support advise on areas where there are already existing stations, skills and training for young people. It was funded by or where sufficient frequencies may not be available. the Paul Hamlyn Foundation and co-ordinated by Radio The decisions are complicated and need to take account Regen, a charity supporting the community radio sector. of the various requirements in the legislation. Ofcom It worked with four community radio stations: Shmu has to consider four things. First, it has to assess the FM in Aberdeen, BCB in Bradford, Future Radio in application and establish whether the frequency is available. Norwich, and Preston FM. Secondly, it needs to look at the different proposals, I hope that my hon. Friend and the rest of the House which may have different objectives, and there may will agree that community radio has grown and established be many proposals for particular areas which need to be itself as part of the UK’s diverse and vibrant radio co-ordinated. Thirdly, it needs to assess the plans to see ecology. As has been mentioned, a number of community whether the proposed service meets the characteristics 603 Community Radio Licences28 FEBRUARY 2014 Community Radio Licences 604 set out by the legislation in terms of social gain and the the case in autumn 2013, so that Ofcom had little choice likelihood that the plans are likely to be viable. Finally, but to revise its timetable for inviting community radio it needs to assess the impact on local commercial radio applications in its current round. and, if necessary place, restrictions on the amount of In mid-October, for example, Ofcom received commercial revenue that the community radio station 38 applications from locations in west and south Yorkshire, may generate. Humberside and the north-west of England. That was The difficulty at the moment, which affects MKFM, far more than it had anticipated, and therefore in fairness is the high level of demand and competing applications. to all potential applicants from other regions, Ofcom This is frustrating for stations that are on air already revised its timetable in order to give itself time to and want to acquire a community radio licence to process those applications before moving on to other strengthen their community engagement and grow their regions. That is the cause of the frustration that MKFM listenership. They want to move more quickly. The is experiencing. I do not want to dampen its enthusiasm suggestion made by my hon. Friend is that we should and I shall take on board some of the points that my adopt a demand-led process which might lead to some hon. Friend made. I am not ready to fast-track licences applicants in some areas getting on air sooner, but it for people who are prepared to pay more, because that would lead to a piecemeal approach that would slow would still involve a lack of co-ordination. At the progress overall as decisions were made in an unco-ordinated moment, the process is fair with a very low licence fee way. for anyone who wants to run a community radio station, The way in which Ofcom manages the process overall although I want to look at whether we can speed the strikes the right balance between the operational challenges process up. of managing the complexities associated with licensing I thank my hon. Friend for bringing this issue to my and its stated aim to license a community radio station attention, and I suggest that I discuss this with Ofcom for every community that wants one. In fact, since the to see if we can find a way to move the process forward. legislation was passed, 276 community radio licences I also wish to invite him and MKFM to a meeting in my have been awarded. Department, should they wish to take advantage of The current timetable was announced in April 2011 that offer. He has brought several suggestions to my and invited applications on a region-by-region basis, attention, although I do not think that moving Milton starting with Wales and the south-west, then Northern Keynes out of the south-east is either in my gift or Ireland in March 2012 and then four English regions, would be a practical way of taking forward MKFM’s one every six months. Licences for each region are then application. I hope to discuss that further with him awarded in batches on a rolling basis, allowing the when we meet. complex spectrum planning and frequency planning to Question put and agreed to. be managed together. If the number of applications received for any region is high, consideration of all 3.4 pm applications can take longer than anticipated, as was House adjourned.

35WS Written Statements28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Statements 36WS

communication charts rises in electricity and gas prices Written Statements and costs and the price differential between the EU and its competitors. It also examines the potential risks to Friday 28 February 2014 energy intensive industries. The communication argues for actions to reduce energy costs including completion of the internal market, action to improve competition in the retail markets, and improving energy efficiency. CABINET OFFICE The importance of cost-effective climate and energy policies is reinforced. UK Statistics Authority (Contingencies Fund Advance) The UK will argue that the EU needs to do more to tackle high-energy costs through more efficient and competitive markets, early agreement and a cost-effective The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd): approach to the 2030 climate and energy framework, The Cabinet Office wishes to report that a cash advance support for industrial energy efficiency, and diversification from the Contingencies Fund has been sought for the of energy supplies. UK Statistics Authority (referred to as the Statistics The second debate will be on the Commission’s Board in the Statistics and Registration Service Act communication setting out a climate and energy policy 2007). The advance is required to meet an urgent cash framework for 2030. The proposed framework is based requirement on services pending parliamentary approval on an overarching binding domestic greenhouse gas of the 2013-14 supplementary estimate. The supplementary emissions reduction target for 2030 of 40% and an estimate seeks an increase on net cash requirement in EU-level renewable energy target of 27%. The renewable order to settle material liabilities arising from a reserve energy target would not include binding national targets, claim. Parliamentary approval for additional resources in contrast to the 2020 framework. of seven million, seven hundred thousand pounds The communication also proposes a new governance (£7,700,000) and additional capital of seven million process, based on national plans. The plans would set three hundred thousand pounds (£7,300,000) has been out how each member state intends to meet its 2030 sought in the supplementary estimate for the UK Statistics greenhouse gas reduction target, including, in particular, Authority. Pending that approval, urgent expenditure planned levels of renewables and energy efficiency. estimated at five million pounds (£5,000,000) will be met by repayable cash advances from the Contingencies The UK will emphasise the need for early political Fund. agreement on the 2030 framework. The UK considers the 40% GHG target proposed by the Commission The advance will be repaid upon Royal Assent of the a good start, but will argue that the EU needs to go Supply and Appropriation Bill. further—up to 50%—in the event of an ambitious global climate deal. The UK particularly welcomes the Commission’s TREASURY recognition of our argument that countries must be allowed to decarbonise in the cheapest way possible. Finance Bill 2014 However, the UK remains concerned to ensure that a renewables target binding at an individual member state is fully ruled out and is seeking greater clarity on this. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David The UK also has questions about how an EU-wide Gauke): The Finance Bill will be published on Thursday renewables target and the proposed governance process 27 March. would work in practice. We will work closely with European partners to discuss the details, but will continue Explanatory notes on the Bill will be available in the to argue that member states should retain full flexibility Vote Office and the Printed Paper Office and placed in over their choice of energy mix to deliver their GHG the Libraries of both Houses on that day. Copies of the targets. explanatory notes will be available on HM Treasury’s website.

FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Afghanistan (Monthly Progress Report) EU Energy Council

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Affairs (Mr William Hague): I wish to inform the House (Mr Edward Davey): In advance of the forthcoming that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, together Energy Council in Brussels on 4 March, I am writing to with the Ministry of Defence and the Department for outline the agenda items to be discussed. International Development, is today publishing the 34th There will be two policy debates at the Council. The progress report on developments in Afghanistan since first will be on the Commission’s communication on November 2010. energy prices and costs in Europe, which analyses On 11 January the Ministry of Interior (MoI) published the impact of the decarbonisation of the energy sector its preliminary elections security risk assessment in on energy prices for households and industry. The advance of the presidential and provincial council elections 37WS Written Statements28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Statements 38WS on 5 April. Of the 6,845 polling centres around the On 15 December 2011, I announced the introduction country, the MoI expected that 94% would be able to of the guidance and our intention to review it the open without significant security issues. Some 414 centres following year. Following this review, we have made were described as being at risk and unlikely to open on some minor amendments to the guidance to clarify key election day. Security preparations will continue. points, including defining more clearly the circumstances On 16 January special representatives for Afghanistan in which the guidance should be applied and highlighting and Pakistan met in Delhi to discuss progress in the additional assessments against the EU and national Afghanistan. They discussed elections, election security, consolidated criteria that need to be undertaken if the regional co-operation, economic opportunities and women’s assistance involves the provision of equipment which is rights. From Afghanistan, the meeting was attended by controlled under export control legislation. Deputy Foreign Minister Ahmadi and Afghan Interior Today’s publication of the revised guidance reflects Minister Daudzai. our continued determination to ensure that when we From 28 to 29 January, Minister of Counter Narcotics, provide overseas security and justice assistance, we do Din Mohammad Mubarez Rashedi, hosted a conference so in a manner that promotes human rights and democracy. to discuss regional co-operation on counter narcotics I have placed a copy of the revised guidance in the with Afghanistan’s neighbours. Libraries of both Houses. The guidance is also available On 29 January the Government of Afghanistan and online at: www.gov.uk. the international community held a joint co-ordination and monitoring board meeting in Kabul to take stock of progress against the Tokyo mutual accountability framework (TMAF) and identify priorities for further reform. On-the-Runs Scheme On 13 January the UK agreed to extend its strategic support to the Ministry of Interior project by £2.7 million, The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa raising the total commitment to £9.9 million until March Villiers): On Tuesday 25 February I laid before the 2015. This project will provide essential capacity building House a statement relating to the High Court judgment support over the Afghan elections and during the transition in the case of John Downey. I would now like to update period. the House on the administrative scheme set up by the High-profile attacks are on the rise. An attack on the previous Government to deal with so-called “on-the-runs” Lebanese restaurant in Kabul on 17 January, in which (OTRs). two British civilians were killed, was followed by five On coming to office in May 2010 the Government separate vehicle-borne IED attacks on 30 January. This were made aware of a list of names submitted by Sinn brought the total number of suicide attacks in January Fein to the previous Government under an agreement to 15. they had reached to clarify the status of OTRs. January marked the end of the first-term of training These were people living outside the United Kingdom at the Afghan National Army Officer Academy (ANAOA). who believed that if they returned they would be wanted Selection for the 2nd Kandak of cadets has been completed by the police for questioning in connection with terrorist and of the 900 that applied, 270 have been selected offences committed before the Belfast agreement. to start training when the next-term commences on Under the scheme the police, and in some cases the 16 February. Public Prosecution Service, checked whether sufficient I am placing the report in the Library of the House. evidence existed in each case at that time for these It will also be published on the gov.uk website individuals to be questioned, arrested or prosecuted if (www.gov.uk/government/publications/afghanistan- they returned to Northern Ireland or any other part of progress-reports). the United Kingdom. If it was found that they were not wanted by the police and that there was no prospect of any prosecution Overseas Security and Justice Assistance Guidance based on the evidence then available, the individuals were informed of that fact by letter from a Northern Ireland Office official. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth The letters did not amount to immunity, exemption Affairs (Mr William Hague): I would like to inform the or amnesty from arrest. The letters made this clear. House that I have today published revised Overseas That remains the case. No recipient of such a letter Security and Justice Assistance (OSJA) Guidance. should be in any doubt that if evidence emerges after Demand for UK security and justice assistance continues the date the letter was issued in connection with terrorist to grow. Our expertise is highly valued across the world offences committed before the Belfast agreement they and improves the standards and capabilities of law will be liable for arrest and prosecution. enforcement and security agencies operating in the most It was on this basis that the current Government in challenging environments. Through this work we aim to May 2010 agreed that the list of names submitted by improve security and increase respect for the rule of law. Sinn Fein to the previous Administration could continue However, it is important that we ensure that the skills to be checked. and expertise we impart are not used to cause harm. If at any time we had been presented with a scheme The OSJA Guidance is HMG’s tool for assessing the that amounted to immunity, exemption or amnesty, we human rights risks of our overseas security and justice would have stopped that scheme—consistent with the assistance work and identifying measures to mitigate opposition of both coalition parties to the previous such risks. Government’s Northern Ireland (Offences) Bill in 2005. 39WS Written Statements28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Statements 40WS

We believe in the application of the rule of law and The aim of the review will be to produce a full public due process, regardless of whether a person is in possession account of the operation and extent of the administrative of a letter or would be eligible for early release under scheme for OTRs; to determine whether any letters sent the terms of the Belfast agreement. through the scheme contained errors; and to make We will take whatever steps are necessary to make recommendations as necessary on this or related matters clear to all recipients of letters arising from the that are drawn to the attention of the inquiry. administrative scheme, in a manner that will satisfy the The person conducting the review will have full access courts and the public, that any letters issued cannot be to all Government papers about the operation of the relied upon to avoid questioning or prosecution for scheme. They will be free to interview key individuals in offences where information or evidence becomes available the civil service and the police and any others where now or later. those individuals are willing. In the light of the error identified in the case of John Downey, the Prime Minister announced on Thursday The report should be provided to me by the end of 27 February that he would appoint a judge to provide May 2014 for the purpose of its full publication. an independent review of the administrative scheme.

501W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 502W Written Answers to Flood Control Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Questions Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will establish a Royal Commission to examine long-term measures to tackle flooding caused by climate change. [902729] Friday 28 February 2014 Dan Rogerson [holding answer 27 February 2014]: The Government does not intend to establish a Royal Commission to look at this issue. At the moment, our ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS main focus is on supporting affected communities, but once the effects of the flooding have been addressed we Equality will of course look at what lessons need to be learned. Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, To oversee this work, the Prime Minister has established Food and Rural Affairs how many publications his a new Cabinet Committee on Floods to co-ordinate Department has produced for the purposes of monitoring strategic long-term plans on flood recovery and flood or promoting staff equality and diversity in each of the resilience. last five years; and what the cost of producing such Last year, the Government published the first National publications was in each such year. [188880] Adaption Programme which set out a wide range of actions to address the most significant climate risks we Dan Rogerson: DEFRA has published a total of 11 face as a country, including the risk of flooding. This reports for the purposes of monitoring or promoting was informed by the UK’s first Climate Change Risk staff equality and diversity, as shown in the following Assessment which was published in 2012. table for each of the last five years. There were no external publishing costs as all material is compiled by Floods: Derby DEFRA staff and published on the DEFRA public website. Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will take Publications steps to provide funding for the Derby City flood 2009 Workforce Monitoring Report defence project Our River Our City. [188785] DEFRA Diversity Strategy Updated Report DEFRA Equality Schemes Progress Report Dan Rogerson [holding answer 26 February 2014]: The allocation of flood grant in aid is administered by Total 3 publications (archived) the Environment Agency.Decisions regarding the allocation of funding to individual schemes are made by the 2010 Workforce Monitoring Report Regional Flood and Coastal Committees and not the Total 1 publication (archived) Secretary of State. The Derby ’Our City, Our River’ Flood Alleviation 2011 Workforce Monitoring Report Scheme (FAS) has the following indicative allocation of Total 1 publication (archived) flood grant in aid funding shown in the published medium term plan: 2012 Completed Equality Impact Assessments (archived) DEFRA Equality Objectives Report 2012-2016 Allocation of FDGiA (£) Total 2 publications Pre 2013-14 886,000 2013-14 347,000 2013 Workforce Monitoring Report 2015-16 7,215,000 Updated Public Sector Equality Duty Objectives Report 2016-17 7,001,000 DEFRA Diversity Strategy and cross-cutting action plans 2017-18 1,619,000 Total 3 publications In addition to the indicative allocations above, £6

January Workforce Monitoring Report million in Growth funding has currently been allocated 2014 for Derby City FAS across 2013-14 and 2014-15. Total 1 publication to date Release of funding is subject to the satisfactory scrutiny of the outline and full business case for the scheme. The Recent publications from 2012 onwards are shown at: outline business case is currently undergoing review by https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department- the Environment Agency. for-environment-food-rural-affairs/about/equality-and- diversity Archived equality and diversity publications are available Floods: Property Development at: http://archive.defra.gov.uk/corporate/about/how/diversity/ Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State docs/equality-progress-2009.pdf for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how his http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/*/http:/ Department assesses the effectiveness of sustainable www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/about/how/diversity/ drainage solutions in ensuring that other properties are http://archive.defra.gov.uk/corporate/about/how/diversity/ not adversely affected by water run-off from new gender/index.htm developments; and if he will make a statement. [188918] 503W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 504W

Dan Rogerson: DEFRA does not assess the effectiveness consents. In future, watercourse maintenance activities of sustainable drainage solutions. Lead local flood could qualify for simple standard-rules permits or, in authorities are required to develop strategies to tackle some cases, be exempt from consent requirements subject local flood risks. Schedule 3 of the Flood and Water to registration and compliance with standard conditions. Management Act 2010, when implemented, will contain Lessons learned from the seven ongoing River Maintenance National Standards for the design, construction, Pilots will inform work on drawing up new national maintenance and operation of sustainable drainage systems permits and exemptions. We plan to consult on our (SuDS). The SuDS approving bodies within local authorities detailed proposals later in 2014. will be responsible for applying these standards. We intend to lay the implementing secondary legislation in Seas and Oceans: Special Areas of Conservation April. Maternity Pay Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what depth his Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Department uses when defining the term deep-sea to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the standard determine which areas require special conservation level and duration is of contractual maternity pay paid measures; and what steps the Government is taking to to civil servants in his Department. [189082] (a) protect deep-sea species and habitats and (b) end the most destructive fishing gears at those depths. Dan Rogerson: Core DEFRA employees who have [188868] completed one year’s service by the start of their maternity leave, intend to return to work after their maternity George Eustice: Rather than a specific depth criterion, leave and intend to complete at least one month’s service the UK Government prefers a spatial approach to on their return, will be paid their full salary for the first protect deep sea species and habitats. In effect this 26 weeks of their maternity leave. would mean limiting fishing activities to within the Meat: Ritual Slaughter established fishing footprint; and protecting sensitive habitats within it by closing areas with known vulnerable marine ecosystems (VMEs), or a high probability of Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for them, to bottom fishing gears. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the answer of 14 August 2013, Official Report, column Vessel monitoring systems enable satellite monitoring 114W, on meat: slaughter, whether he has received the to be precisely undertaken, making it possible to spatially report of the EU Commission study on the methods of manage the established fishing footprint and sensitive slaughter labelling; and what steps he plans to take habitats within it effectively. following that study. [188867] Slaughterhouses George Eustice: The report from the Commission on method of slaughter labelling is still awaited. Once the Mr Bellingham: To ask the Secretary of State for report is published I will be looking at options for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate he providing information to consumers. has made of the number of animals (a) slaughtered in Rivers: Dredging the UK and (b) exported abroad for slaughter in each of the last 10 years. [188661] Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will George Eustice: The numbers of animals slaughtered introduce derogations from the current licensing regime in the UK over the past 10 years are shown in the for dredging (a) main and (b) non-main rivers. [188619] following table, along with the number of live animals exported from the UK, taken from HMRC data. Dan Rogerson: I have no plans to introduce derogations Trade statistics as gathered by HM Revenue and for dredging in main rivers or other watercourses under Customs are classified such that it is not always clear the current consenting regimes. whether exported live animals are destined for slaughter The Government is proposing to take powers through or for the breeding herd/flock. Therefore, the cases the Water Bill to extend the Environmental Permitting where the animal is obviously intended for further framework to the Environment Agency’s flood defence breeding have been removed to give our best estimates.

Thousand head Cattle and calves Sheep and lambs Pigs Slaughtered in UK Live exports1 Slaughtered in UK Live exports1 Slaughtered in UK2 Live exports1

20043 2,393.2 0 15,492.1 12 9,390.0 41 2005 2,412.6 0 16,284.1 0 9,173.0 36 2006 2,644.5 2 16,413.8 13 9,096.6 68 2007 2,661.3 4 15,803.8 1 9,483.7 56 2008 2,631.8 5 16,696.9 45 9,426.8 8 2009 2,512.9 0.11 15,600.2 78 9,030.8 0.39 20103 2,759.5 0 14,288.8 54 9,410.8 0 2011 2,837.9 0 14,477.4 87 9,812.7 3 505W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 506W

Thousand head Cattle and calves Sheep and lambs Pigs Slaughtered in UK Live exports1 Slaughtered in UK Live exports1 Slaughtered in UK2 Live exports1

2012 2,680.7 0 13,746.0 64 10,299.3 1 2013 2,625.1 0.02 14,516.1 86 10,301.7 0.04 1 Live export numbers exclude pure-bred animals for breeding 2 2010 and 2011 UK slaughtering numbers exclude Sows and Boars. The data were provided by a very small number of companies so would be disclosive. 3 These were ‘53 week’ years as data are collected using the statistical week calendar. Note: All 2013 data is provisional and subject to amendment. Source: HM Revenue and Customs (export data), DEFRA Livestock Statistics slaughterhouse survey (slaughterings data)

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Michael Fallon: Following negotiations, I am pleased to confirm that the following supply companies—E.ON, Energy: Prices Edf Energy, Npower, British Gas, SSE and First Utility— will introduce arrangements to automatically issue refunds Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for to customers if they have a credit balance over a minimum Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of threshold (varying up to £10) at the end of 12-month 4 February 2014, Official Report, column 239, on energy direct debit arrangement. I hope other suppliers will company charges, what estimate his Department has follow. made of the amount of money suppliers have in credit as a result of direct debit overpayments. [188830] Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of Michael Fallon: Information held by this Department 29 January 2014, Official Report, column 575W, on on the amount of credit held by supply companies in energy: prices, what estimate his Department has made their customers’ direct debit accounts was provided on of the number of non-domestic customers on non- a commercially confidential basis. tariff contracts with their energy supplier. [188844]

Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Michael Fallon: The Department does not hold this Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of information. 4 February 2014, Official Report, column 239, on energy In the consultation paper ‘Proposals for non-domestic company charges, what estimate his Department has automatic rollovers and contact Renewals’, published made of the number of customers who are in credit to on 14 February 2014, Ofgem estimate that for gas, of their supplier. [188831] 0.55 million gas meter points supplied to micro-business customers 11% are on deemed or out-of-contract rates. Michael Fallon: Information held by this Department For electricity, of 1.6 million electricity meter points on the number of customers who have a credit balance supplied to micro-business customers 10% are on deemed on their direct debit energy accounts was provided on a or out-of-contract rates. commercially confidential basis.

Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of 4 February 2014, Official Report, column 239, on energy 29 January 2014, Official Report, column 575W, on company charges, what assessment his Department has energy: prices, what estimate his Department has made made of the effectiveness of suppliers’ policies on refunding of the number non-domestic customers on fixed-price credit on consumer accounts in surplus. [188832] deals. [188845]

Michael Fallon: While all supply companies are required Michael Fallon: The Department does not hold this to refund a customer’s credit on request unless there are information. reasonable grounds for refusing which must be then be In the consultation paper ‘Proposals for non-domestic clearly explained, some set a level of credit that had to automatic rollovers and contact Renewals’, published be reached before customers received an automatic on 14 February 2014, Ofgem estimate that for gas, of refund. 0.55 million meter points supplied to micro-business Following negotiations, the following supply customers 74% are on fixed-term contracts. For electricity, companies—E.ON, Edf Energy, Npower, British Gas, of 1.6 million electricity meter points supplied to micro- SSE and First Utility—will introduce arrangements to business customers 81% are on fixed-term contracts. automatically issue refunds to customers if they have a credit balance over a minimum threshold (varying up to Equality £10) at the end of 12-month direct debit arrangement.

Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of and Climate Change how many publications his 4 February 2014, Official Report, column 239, on energy Department has produced for the purposes of monitoring company charges, if he will make it his policy to require or promoting staff equality and diversity in each of the suppliers to refund credit on customer accounts. last five years; and what the cost of producing such [188833] publications was in each such year. [188879] 507W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 508W

Gregory Barker: The Department has produced the The next quarterly Official Statistics release, covering following publications for the purpose of monitoring or activity up to the end of December 2013, is planned for promoting staff equality and diversity in each of the publication on 20 March 2014. last five years: Green Deal is not a grant regime. Green Deal Finance 2009 Plans are one element of the scheme and DECC will No publication. publish geographic breakdowns of Green Deal Plans as 2010 the programme becomes more established. The Department of Energy and Climate Change Equality and Diversity Strategy including the DECC Single Equality Scheme. Fuel Poverty: Essex Yr Adran Ynni a Newid Hinsawdd: Strategaeth Cydraddoldeb ac Amrywiaeth gan gynnwys Cynllun Cydraddoldeb Sengl DECC. DECC equality and diversity statement by Moira Wallace, Mr Simon Burns: To ask the Secretary of State for Permanent Secretary. Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made 2011 of the number of individuals who have been removed The DECC Welsh Language Scheme consultation: summary from fuel poverty as a result of the Energy Companies of responses and government response. Obligation in (a) Essex and (b) Chelmsford constituency. 2012 [189435] The Department of Energy and Climate Change Equality, diversity and inclusion strategy and action plan Gregory Barker: The Affordable Warmth and Carbon Saving Communities element of ECO are targeted at The Department of Energy and Climate Change Equality Objectives 2012-13. low income households and areas. They play a vital role in tackling the principal cause of fuel poverty—energy 2013 inefficient housing. However, we cannot estimate the The DECC Equality Information Report 2013. number of individuals or households removed from 2014 fuel poverty as a result of the Energy Company Obligation The DECC Equality Information Report 2014. on a regional or constituency basis. There were no costs in producing the documents listed. We do, however, publish ECO delivery data by administrative area (including Essex) and by constituency Forests (including Chelmsford) on a quarterly basis. The most recent report, from December 2013, relates to ECO Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for delivery up to the end of September 2013. This report Energy and Climate Change if he will place in the and future updates are hosted on the ECO and Green Library a copy of the Business Case for the Government’s Deal statistics website: financial support to the Sustainable Forest Landscapes https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/green-deal-and- facility of the World Bank’s Biocarbon Fund. [188611] energy-company-obligation-eco-statistics

Gregory Barker: In line with the UK Government’s International Aid Transparency commitment, we aim Green Deal Scheme to publish all successful business cases online within three months of approval. Business cases are located Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for under case studies in International Carbon Fund section Energy and Climate Change (1) pursuant to the answer of the gov.uk website and I will be placing in the of 16 October 2013, Official Report, column 754W, on Libraries of the House a copy of the document. the Green Deal scheme, how much of the £200 million Fuel Poverty allocated to the Green Deal in November 2011 was budgeted for (a) 2011-12, (b) 2012-13, (c) 2013-14, (d) 2014-15 and (e) 2015-16; [188834] Stephen Gilbert: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many (a) energy (2) how much of the £200 million allocated to the company obligation, (b) affordable warmth and (c) Green Deal in November 2011 was spent in (a) green deal grants have been accessed in (i) TR and (ii) 2011-12, (b) 2012-13 and (c) 2013-14 to date. [188835] PL postcode areas in each year since 2012. [189391] Gregory Barker: Of the £200 million announced in Gregory Barker: Data for the Energy Company November 2011, £30 million was allocated to 2012-13 Obligation (ECO) are currently available at local authority and £170 million to 2013-14. As of the end of January and parliamentary constituency level. We do not publish 2014, £55.2 million had been spent by DECC, £28.9 million data at postcode level. However, the TR and PL postcode in 2012-13 and £26.3m million in 2013-14 (including areas are mainly within Cornwall unitary authority £21.75 million transferred to Scotland and Wales under area and the Green Deal and ECO quarterly Official the Barnet Consequential Settlement). We have also Statistics release includes breakdowns by both allocated up to £80 million to the Green Deal Communities administrative area and parliamentary constituency for scheme in 2013-14 and announced increases in the value the provisional number of ECO measures by obligation, of our cashback incentives on 18 February 2014 with including Affordable Warmth, up to the end of September applications to be accepted up to 30 June 2014. In 2013. See Tables 1.10a and 1.10b at: addition, as part of the autumn statement, the Government https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/green-deal- has announced that £540 million will be made available energy-company-obligation-eco-and-insulation-levels-in- to support energy efficiency improvements over the next great-britain-quarterly-report-to-september-2013 three years. 509W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 510W

Maternity Pay undertake in writing to return to the civil service after their maternity leave for a minimum of one calendar month. Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the standard level Natural Gas: Disconnections and duration is of contractual maternity pay paid to civil servants in his Department. [189081] Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Gregory Barker: Department of Energy and Climate Energy and Climate Change what estimate his Change employees who meet the following eligibility Department has made of the number of properties that criteria will receive contractual maternity pay for 26 have disconnected from the gas grid in each of the last weeks at their normal rate of pay. To qualify an employee 10 years. [188633] will need to: meet the eligibility criteria for statutory maternity pay; Michael Fallon: Ofgem monitors and publishes be in paid service with the Department and have at least one information about the disconnection of domestic gas th year’s service by the 4 week before their expected week of and electricity supplies due to debt in its Social Obligations child birth or by the time they start their maternity leave (service in another Government Department will count if it Annual Reports. Ofgem does not publish data about immediately precedes service in the Department); other reasons for disconnection. The following table, they should not be employed on a casual, standby or short based on Ofgem’s reports, show the number of domestic notice appointment or a fixed term contract of less than one disconnections for gas supplies by each supplier from year; 2005-12. Data for 2013 are not yet available.

Disconnection of gas supplies Supplier 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012

Atlantic 548———————— British Gas 12,275 3 14 2 0 8 37000 Co-op ———————— 0 0 Countrywide 00010————— EON 212 830 499 644 928 445 0 0 5 46 Ecotricity ———————003 Edf Energy 897 451 459 526 878 975 474 234 0 0 First Utility ————000000 GasPlus ———— 277111253322 Npower 185 296 665 1637 2343 360 61 81 69 4 Ovo ———————000 SSE 558 666 473 593 728 335 98 66 179 2 Scottish Power 380 259 199 454 848 799 1,013 407 42 25 Spark ———————000 Telecom plus 0 0 0 2—————— TXU 1,566————————— Utilita ————000010 Total 16,078 2,663 2,308 3,859 5,727 2,999 1,794 813 329 102

Existing supply licence obligations and an industry DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Code of Practice provide protection for consumers in debt, for example suppliers must not disconnect a domestic premises during October to March if they know or have reason to believe that the customer is of pensionable age and lives alone, or only lives with other pensioners Electoral Register: Second Homes or children under the age of 18.

Nurseries Stephen Gilbert: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what estimate he has made of (a) how many and (b) what proportion of UK second home owners who will Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for register to vote online at an address at which they are Energy and Climate Change how many workplace nurseries not primarily resident under individual electoral (a) directly operated by his Department and (b) operated registration proposals. [189342] by a third party on his Department’s property there were at (i) 5 May 2010 and (ii) 5 February 2014; and how many such nurseries are expected to cease operating Greg Clark: This information is not held centrally. in (A) 2014-15 and (B) 2015-16. [189101] It is for the local electoral registration officer to decide whether a voter may be said to be resident at an Gregory Barker: Since its establishment in 2008, the address, and therefore eligible to be registered. Department of Energy and Climate Change has had no workplace nurseries that are: (a) directly operated by Electoral registration officers are required to consider the Department, and (b) operated by a third party on each individual case on its own merits in line with the Department’s property. Electoral Commission Guidance. 511W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 512W

TRANSPORT in these reports and were discarded due to engineering complexities and a lack of demand for an intermediate Driving: Licensing station in this location. This led to the preferred route for Phase Two that was Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for subject of a recent consultation. This consultation closed Transport what recent steps he has taken against unofficial at the end of January and we are now considering websites offering government services relating to the responses ahead of announcing a decision on Phase application for driving licences. [188990] Two by the end of the year.

Stephen Hammond: Cabinet Office Government Digital Mr O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State for Service (GDS) is leading a cross-government exercise Transport with reference to his speech to the National about the operation of third-party websites which offer Rail conference on 29 October 2013, entitled Why HS2 services associated with official government transactions, will spread prosperity, what alternative options his including driving licence applications. Department considered to free up rail capacity; and for The Minister for Civil Society, my hon. Friend the what reasons it has been decided that High Speed 2 will Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd), be the most cost-effective and economically beneficial and the Minister for Culture, Communications and way to free up capacity as opposed to (a) double- Creative Industries, my hon. Friend the Member for decker carriages and (b) other capacity increasing Wantage (Mr Vaizey), are meeting with Google shortly options. [188841] to discuss its terms and conditions for advertising the services offered by these third party websites. GDS will Mr Goodwill: Since 2010 the Department has considered also engage with other internet search engine providers a wide range of alternative options to a high speed about this issue. railway including the use of alternative modes, a conventional speed line and upgrades to the existing rail Equality network. Our most recent assessment of alternatives focussed Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport on enhancements to the existing rail network since these how many publications his Department has produced are the closest in delivering capacity and journey time for the purposes of monitoring or promoting staff improvements comparable to those of HS2. The alternative equality and diversity in each of the last five years; and schemes delivered lower benefits than HS2, failed to what the cost of producing such publications was in deliver sufficient additional capacity, could not offer a each such year. [188888] robust solution to the problem of poor performance and would significantly disrupt services on the existing Stephen Hammond: Nine equality monitoring reports rail network. were published for each of the four financial years ending 2011-12. These reports covered the Centre (DfTc), M25 each of the Executive agencies and a corporate report which summarised the data contained in the other reports. Eight reports were published in 2012-13 because Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for the Government Car and Despatch Agency had been Transport if he will publish the risk assessments submitted absorbed into the centre. from the (a) Highways Agency and (b) Metropolitan police on the proposal for a hard shoulder running on The costs for each of the last five financial years the M25 between junctions 23 and 27. [188668] were:

£ Mr Goodwill: For the all-lane running scheme on the M25 between junctions 23 and 27 the risk-based approach 2012-13 93,153 used to determine the expected safety performance will 2011-12 95,900 be published on the Highways Agency’s website. 2010-11 99,973 The Highways Agency does not have the authority to 2009-10 84,781 publish risk assessments on behalf of the Metropolitan 2008-09 78,753 police. They will need to be contacted directly.

High Speed 2 Railway Line Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what risk assessment was carried out on the Mr O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport proposal for a motorway hard shoulder running on the for what reasons he approved the High Speed 2 route M25 between junctions 23 and 27; and if he will make via Crewe rather than via Stoke-on-Trent; and if he will a statement. [188669] publish the quantitative and comparison data on both options. [188725] Mr Goodwill: For the proposed all-lane running scheme on the M25 between junctions 23 and 27 a risk assessment Mr Goodwill: HS2 Ltd set out route, station and has been carried out that considered the operational depot options for Phase Two of HS2 in their March risks to the road user and road worker. This methodology 2012 reports, including why alternative options were was successfully developed on the M42 Active Traffic not taken forward to later stages of the process. The Management pilot scheme that has been open to traffic options for serving Stoke-on-Trent directly were considered since 2006. 513W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 514W

The assessment shows that the all-lane running design Railways: South West is likely to provide safety benefits over and above those on a basic three lane motorway. Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport The assessment shows that no road users will be for how many days the (a) Exeter St Davids to Tiverton disproportionately adversely affected and the risk to all Parkway, (b) Exeter St Davids to Salisbury, (c) Taunton users remains tolerable. to Bristol Temple Meads, (d) Plymouth to Newton Abbot, (e) Exeter St Davids to Newton Abbot and (f) Railways: Disability Plymouth to Penzance railway lines were closed in each of the last five years. [189234] Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what steps he is to ensure that rail companies Stephen Hammond: This is not information that is and station operators are improving access for disabled held by the Department for Transport. This is a matter passengers. [188604] for Network Rail, who own and operate Britain’s rail network. Stephen Hammond: Network Rail and the train operating companies are required to have a disabled persons’ Roads: Graffiti protection policy setting out the services they will provide for disabled passengers, including staff assistance and Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for provision of an accessible taxi for anyone who cannot Transport what the annual cost is to the Highways access a particular station. If they carry out infrastructure Agency of the removal of graffiti from its property. work at a station they must also meet the EU and [188716] domestic standards set out in ″Accessible Train Station ″ Design: A Code of Practice (DfT, 2011). Failure to Mr Goodwill: The Highways Agency does not separately meet these standards can lead to enforcement action by identify the exact annual cost of removing graffiti from the Office of Rail Regulation. We also allocate around its property as this activity forms part of a wider £7 million a year to operators under the Access for All contracted service which includes a number of other Small Schemes Programme, which has funded accessibility general maintenance activities. improvements at more than 1,100 stations since 2006. Rolling Stock Railways: Franchises

Mr O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen McPartland: To ask the Secretary of State Transport what estimate he has made of the total cost for Transport what plans he has under the new of rolling stock for double-decker carriages on the (a) Thameslink Great Northern Franchise to ensure that West Coast Main Line and (b) High Speed 2. [188700] refunds are processed automatically for any rail tickets purchased by credit or debit card. [189515] Mr Goodwill: The most recent cost estimate for rolling Stephen Hammond: The Invitation to Tender (ITT) stock on the High Speed 2 network is £7.5 billion, which for the TSGN franchise, published on 26 September includes contingency of £1.7 billion. This estimate is 2013, does not state that refunds are processed automatically based on discussions with a range of rolling stock for any rail tickets purchased by credit or debit card. manufacturers and is not specific to any particular type However, under section 5.6.3 of the ITT the bidders are of train. required to The Department has not made an estimate of the “maintain a consistently high standard of ticket retailing service”, costs of double deck carriages on the West Coast Main Line. Before such trains could be used on the West and Coast Mainline, the route (including diversionary routes) “provide a range of ticket products and ticket retailing solutions would need to be gauge cleared to allow sufficient space that meets the needs of customers including those who may not for the trains to operate. This would involve raising all be conversant with, or have access, to new technology”. overhead wires, raising bridges, modifying platforms on In addition, credit would be available to bidders as part the route, modifying station canopies, moving or raising of the quality assessment for exceeding these requirements, all signal gantries and other signage on the route, and with, for example lowering track in the tunnels. Work would need to be “improvements to the overall ticket retail experience”. carried out to modify existing depots or to provide new ones. Additional works would also be required to enable Railways: Graffiti line speeds to be maintained on the route. The extent of the works and the cost would depend on the kind of trains used. Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what the annual cost to Network Rail is of the removal of graffiti from its property. [188717] West Coast Railway Line

Stephen Hammond: As a private sector company Mr O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport limited by guarantee, graffiti removal has been an what estimate he has made of the cost to (a) lower the operational matter for Network Rail. The company has tracks to accommodate double-decker carriages on the extensive landholdings and advises that it currently West Coast Main Line and (b) heighten tunnels, bridges spends around £3.5 million a year on graffiti removal. and catenary where appropriate. [188701] 515W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 516W

Mr Goodwill: The Department has not estimated the Mr Vaizey: DCMS has made no such assessment. cost of modifying infrastructure on the West Coast Adver-gaming is regulated under the UK Code of Non- Main Line to accommodate double-decker trains. broadcast Advertising, Sales Promotion and Direct In the 2010 Strategic Alternatives Strategic Outline Marketing (the CAP code, administered independently Business Case Atkins reviewed a long-list of potential by the Advertising Standards Authority). On 25 February interventions, including operation of double-decker trains 2014 the Advertising Standards Authority/CAP announced on the WCML. The option was ruled out as train new measures to ensure that food advertising remains lengthening was thought likely to deliver similar outputs responsible. These include a comprehensive literature at lower cost and with less disruption. review of the impact of digital and online marketing of food and drink products to children. The Advertising Before double deck trains could be used on the West Standards Authority will also carry out a survey of Coast Mainline, the route (including diversionary routes) food advertisements, with a focus on online, to assess would need to be gauge cleared to allow sufficient space whether there are any problem areas and will take for the trains to operate. This would involve raising the action to bring advertising that breaks the rules into overhead wires for the entire route, raising bridges, line. modifying platforms on the route, modifying station canopies, moving or raising all signal gantries and other signage on the route, and lowering track in the tunnels. UK Sport Work would need to be carried out to modify existing depots or to provide new ones. Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State Additional works would also be required to enable for Culture, Media and Sport whether she requires UK line speeds to be maintained on the route, such as Sport to provide equality assessments of its funding straightening sections of track where fast trains currently decisions. [189349] tilt. The extent of the works and the cost would depend on the kind of trains used. Mrs Grant: UK Sport funding decisions are based on its Investment Principles, which can be found here: Mr O’Brien: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.uksport.gov.uk/pages/investment-principles/ Transport how many extra seats would be created (a) in total and (b) as a proportion of current passenger capacity if double-decker carriages were installed on the West Coast Main Line. [188703] DEFENCE

Mr Goodwill: The Department has not carried out an Armed Forces: Floods assessment of how many extra seats would be created if double-decker trains were operated on the West Coast Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Main Line. Before such trains could be used on the Defence how many (a) full-time service personnel, (b) West Coast Mainline, the route (including diversionary reservists and (c) recruits from each of the three armed routes) would need to be gauge cleared to allow sufficient services have been deployed since 1 February 2014 to space for the trains to operate. support rescue and prevention work following the recent flooding and storms. [188614]

CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Anna Soubry: The overall name for the Ministry of Defence’s (MOD) support to civil authorities following Arts: Essex the recent severe weather is Operation Pitchpole. At the peak of Op Pitchpole, 16 February 2014, the number of Mr Simon Burns: To ask the Secretary of State for military personnel on task was as follows: Culture, Media and Sport how much arts funding (a) in total and (b) per head of population was allocated Regular Reservists Recruits Total in (i) Essex and (ii) Chelmsford constituency in each RN 1,050 0 235 1,285 year since 2010. [189436] ARMY 2,704 147 0 2,851 Mr Vaizey: Arts Council England makes its funding RAF 851 0 0 851 decisions independently of Government and as such we — — — 4,987 do not hold the information requested. Nearly £3 billion The definition of ‘on task’ includes all personnel at pounds will be invested in the Arts over the lifetime of ‘notice to move’ (allocated to the Operation but not this Parliament. Local government funding for the arts employed on specific tasks) and those deployed on is a matter for local authorities and my Department visible tasks. does not hold information on individual local authority spend. Burma Food: Advertising Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to the answer of 3 February 2014, Culture, Media and Sport what assessments she has Official Report, column 6, on the Burmese army, what made of the proportion of food brands sold in the UK discussions he has had with the Burmese army on (a) that have adver-gaming as part of their digital platforms. investigations into alleged human rights abuses by the [189363] army and (b) the need to secure accountability. [188730] 517W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 518W

Anna Soubry: Human rights and accountability were Anna Soubry: There are no plans for the UK’s Lightning two of the major themes of the Managing Defence in II to be equipped to carry the B-61 nuclear bomb. the Wider Security Context course that the UK Defence Academy delivered to members of the Tatmadaw (Burmese Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Military) in January this year. Defence what requests NATO has received from the Since the beginning of 2014, there have been a number US Government in relation to Alliance funding for the of meetings between senior UK representatives and integration of the B-61 nuclear bomb onto the F-35. military chiefs during which a range of issues were [189370] discussed. During his most recent trip to Burma, the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Anna Soubry: We do not comment on the policy of my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Mr our Allies. Swire), lobbied both the Commander in Chief of the Burmese Army and the Kachin Northern Commander Members: Correspondence on human rights. On each occasion, our Defence Attaché has been present at those meetings. Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) if he will arrange for the hon. Member for Cyprus North Durham to receive a reply to his letter of 4 February 2014 to the Cabinet Secretary; [189300] (2) if he will arrange for the hon. Member for North Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Durham to receive a reply to his letter of 18 December Defence what assessment he has made on the number 2013 to the Permanent Secretary of his Department. of birds illegally killed on the British sovereign base [189301] area of Dhekelia in 2013. [189451] Anna Soubry: I understand that the Permanent Secetary Anna Soubry: BirdLife of Cyprus recently provided has now responded to the hon. Member’s letter and has the Sovereign Base Areas Administration with their apologised for the delay in replying. I hope the hon. report for autumn 2013 on illegal bird trapping activity Member will take the response as a reply to his letter of in Cyprus. Countering illegal bird trapping activity is 4 February to the Cabinet Secretary on the same matter. one of the key priorities of the Sovereign Base Areas Administration and the Sovereign Base Areas Police Military Aid: Floods and this is stated in the Chief Constable’s annual report and strategic plan. Police enforcement action has resulted in 132 arrests over the last four years and seizure of Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence large quantities of equipment. what effect deployment of armed forces personnel to tackle flooding has had on current operational readiness; and if he will make a statement. [189337] Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what area of invasive acacia tree was removed Mr Francois: The personnel allocated to assist with from his Department’s land at Cape Pyla in the Cyprus flooding were selected in such a way that their participation sovereign base area of Dhekelia in each of the last in Operation Pitchpole will have no impact on the three years. [189452] military’s preparedness for future operations. None of the personnel involved were scheduled to be employed Anna Soubry: No acacia tree has been removed at on other operations over the period, and no collective Cape Pyla in any of the last three years. training for future operations was interrupted.

Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Defence what estimate he has made of the street value what operational contingency plans he has made for of the birds illegally killed on the British sovereign base future capability requirements in the event of further area of Dhekelia in 2013. [189453] flooding. [189339]

Anna Soubry: Within the Sovereign Base Areas there Mr Francois: The MOD’s support to civil authorities are no restaurants selling illegally trapped birds, but following the recent severe weather, Operation Pitchpole, where there is demand elsewhere we understand that the is ongoing. Following the end of the flooding recovery commercial street value of such birds is approximately stage we will work with the civil authorities to learn ¤50-60 a dozen. Countering the illegal bird trapping lessons from the flooding. activity is one of the key priorities of the Sovereign We will continue to work closely with and provide Base Areas Administration and Sovereign Base Areas assistance to the civil authorities under Military Aid to Police, who devote a considerable amount of resources the Civil Authorities (MACA) principles. to policing and removing infrastructure associated with trapping across the areas. Military Bases: Scotland

Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) what timetable he has set for the (a) closure Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for and (b) any associated decontamination work of Defence whether the UK’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighters Craigiehall army base prior to its sale; [188718] will be equipped to carry the B-61 nuclear bomb. (2) what progress he has made in identifying potential [189369] buyers for Craigiehall army base, Edinburgh. [188737] 519W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 520W

Dr Murrison: The Army Basing Plan announced by As you are aware the Ministry of Defence (MOD) remains the Secretary of State for Defence, my right hon. Friend committed to working alongside the Scottish Environment Protection the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr Agency (SEPA) and other interested parties as part of a coalition Hammond), on 5 March 2013, Official Report, columns to address the issue of radioactive contamination at Dalgety Bay in the long term. 845-8) stated that the regular Army would be leaving Craigiehall not before 2016. It is too early to identify As promised, the MOD has finalised the preliminary Outline any potential buyers of the site. A timetable for closure Management Options Appraisal report. You were given a draft copy and it was published by SEPA and the MOD on 22 January. and investigations into any potential decontamination (if required) will be established in due course. The Outline Management Options Appraisal report aims to provide an indication of the potential nature and range of available measures and activities which could be implemented to enable the Radioactive Waste: Fife effective long-term management of the contamination and concludes that the preferred option is likely to comprise a combination of each of the measures and activities presented. Mr Gordon Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) if he will set out a timetable for remedial However, further work is required before the best possible action work to begin and be completed at Dalgety Bay; course of action can be determined. This work includes developing a more detailed quantitative risk assessment and health protection [186061] and remediation criteria. (2) if he will discuss with the Defence Infrastructure The sequence of events and timeframe needed to deliver this Organisation detailed options for cleaning up the radiation further work and provide an effective long-term management contamination at Dalgety Bay; [186062] solution to the issue at Dalgety Bay are as follows: (3) for what reasons his Department was not 1. The MOD will develop a more detailed risk assessment represented at the Dalgety Bay Forum on 30 January (DQRA) to define the most appropriate management option, 2014; [186064] taking account of the views provided by SEPA and PHE at a recent meeting on 6 February. (4) if he will instruct officials of the Defence Infrastructure Organisation to meet representatives of the Scottish 2. The MOD will define and develop a proposal for an appropriate Environment Protection Agency and the Dalgety Bay long-term management solution informed by the PHE and DQRA contribution by the end of June 2014. community within the next week. [186066] 3. SEPA will assess the wider implications of implementation on stakeholders and the local community, starting from June 2014. Dr Murrison: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) continues to work closely with the Scottish Environment Protection 4. At the same time the MOD will establish the extent to which Agency (SEPA), and the stakeholder group they have the Department may fund the management solution and agree with SEPA and other parties an appropriate management model assembled, with a view to agreeing an appropriate long for overseeing any remediation and subsequent transition to the term solution for managing the radium contamination “normalised” management arrangements. at Dalgety Bay. The definition of a normalised management regime that we are I will write shortly to the right hon. Member with the using is the point at which the risk to human health can be detail of the timelines for the further scientific risk maintained at the level deemed to be acceptable by Public Health assessment and other work necessary to identify an England without the need for monthly monitoring and recovery appropriate long-term solution at Dalgety Bay. This of radioactive sources (radium-226) and current access restrictions, timetable has been agreed between SEPA and the MOD such that the ’land’ is deemed suitable for its current use within and should result in identification of the preferred the context of Part 2A of the Environment Protection Act 1990, at which point MOD would expect SEPA to resume responsibility management option for the site by summer 2014. for routine monitoring and the Local Authority, Moray Estates Having published the Outline Management Option and Sailing Club to assume their respective responsibilities for Appraisal MOD officials will be meeting with both maintaining sea defences etc. SEPA and Public Health England on 6 February 2014 Accordingly, I have asked my officials to seek a view by the end in order to establish the health protection criteria necessary of March from Public Health England (PHE) as to the level of to inform the development and definition of the reduction in current radioactive levels necessary to achieve long-term management option. public safety within a “normalised” management regime. Normalisation implies putting in place any measures necessary to Once work on identifying the most appropriate long contain or remove contamination to ensure the risks to public term management option has concluded, we expect to safety remain very low in the long term. I have raised the importance play an active part in supporting SEPA in their engagement of achieving this without delay with the Department of Health. with wider stakeholders (including the Dalgety Bay Until the work outlined above is completed the MOD will Forum) to discuss the practicalities of implementation. continue the monthly monitoring and recovery programme to With regard to the recent meeting of the Dalgety Bay ensure the risk to the public remains very low. Forum on 30 January 2014, no requirement was placed on the MOD to present but we remain willing to participate in any future discussions with the Forum Railways: Concessions whenever this is necessary and as requested by SEPA as Chair of the Forum. Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for Substantive answer from Andrew Murrison to Gordon Defence if he will make it his policy to extend railcard Brown: discounts to reservists. [188686] In my answer of 6 February 2014 (Official Report, columns 352W- 353W) and further to your letter of 9 January, I promised to inform you of the progress that has been made and the proposed Anna Soubry: We are in discussion with the Association way forward at Dalgety Bay following the adjournment debate on of Train Operating Companies on this issue, and we 17 December 2013. hope that they will reach a conclusion soon. 521W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 522W

EDUCATION Ofsted is responsible for the inspection and regulation of services which care for children and young people, Academies and those providing education and skills for learners of all ages. Ofsted provides an independent assessment of Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for the quality and standards of education and assesses the Education what criteria he uses to decide whether to educational achievement of pupils. intervene in academies that are failing. [189429] The Skills Funding Agency (SFA), an agency of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, regulates Mr Timpson: The Secretary of State for Education, adult further education and skills training in England my right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath and ensure that public funds are spent as Parliament (Michael Gove), may intervene in an academy when he intended. is satisfied that standards of performance are unacceptably low. For both academies and maintained schools the Child Minding definition of ’unacceptably low’ is that attainment and progress are below the measures set out in the floor Lucy Powell: To ask the Secretary of State for Education standard, or that the academy is in an Ofsted category when the Task and Finish Group for Childminder Agencies of concern. last met; and how often that group has met since the He may also intervene if an academy is in breach of introduction of the Children and Families Bill. [188861] the Academies Financial Handbook. The sponsored academies programme has been a Elizabeth Truss: The Task and Finish Group last met huge success in transforming the fortunes of the weakest, on 26 November 2013. It has met five times to date. most challenging schools. The vast majority of schools which have become sponsored academies are now thriving Children: Autism thanks to the greater freedom afforded to them and the strong, new leadership of these sponsors. However, in Mr Scott: To ask the Secretary of State for Education the small number of cases where an academy is not if he will make an assessment of the findings of the performing well, Ministers are clear that they will hold report entitled Ruled Out, published in February 2014 the trust to account. by Ambitious About Autism, that substantial numbers of autistic children are being unlawfully excluded from Barnfield Federation schools. [188915]

Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Timpson: All exclusions from school must be Education when officials in his Department have met lawful, reasonable and fair. Statutory guidance sets out counterparts in the Department for Business, Innovation schools’ responsibilities in relation to exclusion and and Skills to discuss the Barnfield Federation since May there is no excuse for schools not to adhere to the 2010; and what the purpose was of each such meeting. correct process. Ofsted would take seriously any evidence [189455] that a school had acted unlawfully in excluding a pupil. The Department for Education is funding the National Mr Timpson: We do not hold data on inter-departmental Autistic Society at £440,000 over two years. Part of this meetings between the Department for Education and funding is being used to employ an exclusions adviser the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills who can give advice to parents and professionals to help going back as far as May 2010. However, between prevent unlawful exclusion and reduce the need for September 2013 and February 2014, officials from the formal exclusion from school. Education Funding Agency met with their counterparts in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills Officials from the Department are due to meet Ambitious or the Skills Funding Agency in person or via teleconference about Autism to discuss the Ruled Out report and will on 28 occasions to discuss the ongoing joint Education continue to work with them and other autism groups to Funding Agency/Skills Funding Agency investigation improve provision for children and young people with into the Barnfield Federation. autism.

Gavin Shuker: To ask the Secretary of State for Female Genital Mutilation Education who was responsible for the regulation of the Barnfield Federation. [189456] Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what steps he is taking in schools to tackle Mr Timpson: As a further education corporation, female genital mutilation. [189707] Barnfield College is responsible for discharging its duties as set out in all relevant legislation, including education Mr Timpson: Female genital mutilation is child abuse and charity legislation, and its Instruments and Articles and a criminal offence. It is an issue that schools should of Government. The three Barnfield academy trusts are take very seriously, and any school concerned that a independent companies with their own responsibilities pupil is at risk should contact their local authority under company and charity law. safeguarding team immediately. The Department for Education has ultimate responsibility On 25 February the Secretary of State for Education, for the regulation of academies, including ensuring my right hon. Friend the Member for Surrey Heath there is an adequate framework in place to provide (Michael Gove) and I met campaigners, including Fahma assurance that all resources are managed in an effective Mohammed, the 17-year-old student whose inspirational and proper manner and that value for money is secured. work has featured prominently in the media. Following 523W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 524W that meeting, the Secretary of State issued a statement Mr Timpson: The Department for Education does setting out our intentions. That statement has been not collect statistics on instances of cyberbullying, or published at: on children self-harming as a result of abuse or bullying. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/michael-gove-guidance- A number of expert organisations—such as the Diana for-schools-on-female-genital-mutilation Award and NSPCC—have undertaken surveys to try to measure the extent of cyberbullying. These surveys Foster Care reveal wide variation in reported incidence; which could be because personal interpretation of what constitutes Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for cyberbullying varies. Education what guidance his Department issues on the standard of accommodation which should be provided Estimates from an evidence review carried out by the Childhood Wellbeing Centre (at the Institute of Education, to foster children. [189024] University of Kent and Loughborough University) for Mr Timpson: Standard 10 of the Fostering Services’: the Department in 2011, found that between 8% and National Minimum Standards clearly sets out the 34% of children and young people in the UK have been Government’s expectations about the minimum standard cyberbullied. Evidence from the 2010 Longitudinal Study in relation to the physical environment of the foster of 15,000 14 to 16-year-old people in England (LSYPE) home. which is funded by the Department, found that cyberbullying was the most common form of abuse 1https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/192705/NMS_Fostering_Services.pdf along with name-calling. We are also funding a series of questions about Free School Meals bullying in the 2013/14 and 2014/15 Crime Survey for England and Wales. One of the questions asks 10 to Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Education 14-year-olds about whether or not they have experienced if he will rank each primary school in each local authority cyberbullying in the last 12 months. This will give us a area according to the percentage of children on free baseline estimate of prevalence and will help us to track school meals; and what category each such school is. trends over time. [189372] In terms of self-harm, we know from research studies such as the Environmental Risk (E-Risk) longitudinal Mr Laws: The requested information has been placed study of a nationally representative sample of 1,116 in the House Library. twin pairs (2012), that bullying is associated with an increased risk of self-harm. However, there are no reliable Free School Meals: Liverpool statistics on the prevalence of self-harm due to abuse or bullying. The Department of Health funds the multicentre Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for study of self-harm in England, which collects data in Education how many children in (a) Liverpool, three cities about young people and adolescents attending Walton constituency and (b) Liverpool are eligible for emergency departments in six hospitals with self-harm. but do not claim free school meals. [189298] This study does not look at bullying or abuse in particular, but shows that relationship difficulties, including problems Mr Laws: The Department for Education routinely with friends, are a common reason for self-harm in girls. collects information on pupils who are both eligible for This study is however, based on admissions data which and claiming free school meals. This information is constitutes a small proportion of self-harm episodes. published in the “Schools, Pupils and their Characteristics, January 2013” Statistical First Release1. Information on Pupils: Attendance the number of pupils who are eligible for free school meals but do not claim them is not collected by the Mr Andrew Turner: To ask the Secretary of State for Department. Education how many responses to the consultation on The Department has published a research paper “Pupils the Education (Pupil Registration) (England) (Amendment) not claiming free school meals: 2013”2 which presents Regulations 2013 were made (a) nationally and (b) by estimates of the numbers and proportions of pupils private individuals; and how many such responses were who are entitled to receive free school meals but are not (i) in favour of and (ii) opposed to the draft regulations. claiming. The paper compares registration rates for [189447] children aged between 4 and 15 and highlights regions and local authorities where under-registration rates are Michael Gove: The amendments made by the Education high. Figures from this paper show the estimated under- (Pupil Registration) (Amendment) Regulations 2013 registration rate for Liverpool local authority is 6% followed an extensive review on improving attendance compared to an England average of 11 %. in school by the then Government Expert Behaviour Adviser Charlie Taylor. 1 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/schools-pupils-and -their-characteristics-january-2013 Mr Taylor published his recommendations, and the 2 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pupils-not-claiming Government formally responded formally at the time. -free-school-meals-2013 This subsequent amendment removed the misconception that pupils are entitled to 10 days annual holiday during Internet: Bullying term time. The Department for Education did not consult formally on this subsequent amendment to regulations Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for as it did not alter headteachers’ ultimate discretion to Education what statistics his Department collects on grant leave of absence from school in certain circumstances. instances of (a) cyber bullying and (b) children self- We made it clear that a leave of absence should only be harming as a result of abuse or bullying. [189500] granted in exceptional circumstances. 525W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 526W

Schools: Vocational Guidance Mr Swire: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) has no direct or indirect bilateral funding Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for arrangements with the Federal Government of Argentina. Education when the revision to the statutory guidance FCO spending in Argentina is reducing and limited to for schools on fulfilling their duty to secure access to supporting Chevening Scholarships and British Council independent careers guidance for their students will be activities. What remains is exclusively aimed at building published. [188693] long-term partnerships with the Argentine people-including businesses and future leaders-or tackling global issues, Matthew Hancock: The revised statutory guidance such as climate change and human rights. on careers guidance will be published in due course, in good time for schools to take it into account when British Nationals Abroad planning careers provision for the 2014-15 academic year. Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what financial Young People: Training assistance his Department offers to relatives of British nationals killed abroad who are required to travel to Mr Ward: To ask the Secretary of State for Education foreign countries for criminal trials but are in financial what assessment he has made of the recommendations hardship. [189334] of the British Chambers of Commerce Skills and Employment Manifesto published in January 2014. Mark Simmonds: The Foreign and Commonwealth [188728] Office (FCO) provides a wide range of support to bereaved families after the death of a British National Matthew Hancock: I met with the British Chambers abroad, but it cannot fund their travel to another country of Commerce (BCC) in February this year and welcomed to attend a trial. The FCO does however provide partial the publication of their Skills and Employment Manifesto. funding to a specialist external partner, Missing Abroad, I agree with its underlying principles that employers who can support bereaved families with this need by have a role to play in providing inspirational careers securing flights at significantly reduced prices or for guidance and in the design and delivery of vocational free, and also provides partial funding to organisations education. at international airports in the UK who can support Good careers guidance is about inspiration as much families who are travelling. as advice. Longer term mentoring, particularly from employers, can inspire young people and give them the I also refer the hon. Member to my answer of support and personal resilience needed to succeed. Strong 27 November 2013, Official Report, column 287W, and connections with businesses should be at the heart of to my answer of 28 January 2014, Official Report, what every school or college does. The National Careers 470W. Service (NCS) supplements the advice and guidance Burma which schools and colleges are required to provide for their students. Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Vocational qualification reforms have ensured that Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he only those qualifications that are of demonstrably high has received on the Burmese government’s preparations value to employers will be reported in school and college for the census to ensure it is a complete, credible and performance tables. The new Tech Level qualifications peaceful process; what discussions he has had on the for 16 to 19-year-olds will also include the involvement potential effect of the census on ethnic tensions in of employers in their delivery and assessment. These Burma; and what recent representations he has made to reforms will give students much greater confidence when his Burmese counterpart on official recognition of the choosing their qualifications that they are recognised Royhingya under the census. [189340] and valued by employers. We are also reforming apprenticeships to make them Mr Swire: British officials have held several discussions more rigorous and responsive to the needs of employers. with Burmese officials, members of the Rohingya and Trailblazers, led by employers and professional bodies other ethnic community leaders, UN bodies and are leading the way in developing the new standards in a development agencies about the upcoming census. In wide range of sectors. In future, every apprentice will January, our ambassador discussed the census with train towards the achievement of a short and easy to ethnic armed group leaders in Chiang Mai, and the understand employer designed standard. Head of DFID Burma accompanied the Burmese Minister We have also introduced traineeships; education and for Immigration and Population on a visit to Rakhine training courses which include work experience and State in February to discuss the census with the Muslim help young people develop their employability skills. and Buddhist communities. The British Government is providing significant funding to the census in 2014 because it will be a vital source of FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE data to inform better government service delivery, help the government manage public finances more transparently, Argentina and underpin private investment and job creation. We, and other donors, have been working with the Burmese Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Government and the UN to manage and mitigate the and Commonwealth Affairs what direct or indirect risks, including ethnic tensions, which could be associated bilateral funding arrangements his Department has with with the census to ensure as peaceful, credible and Argentina. [189499] complete a process as possible. 527W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 528W

The census form contains a space that enables people Gibraltar: Spain to self-identify their ethnicity, such as Rohingya. The form and census process are being discussed between Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for the Government and members of the Rohingya community Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions and other ethnic groups. he has had with his Spanish counterpart on Gibraltar in 2014 to date. [189029] Capital Punishment Mr Lidington: The Secretary of State for Foreign and Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent progress for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), raised his concerns has been made on the Strategy for the Abolition of the about illegal incursions by Spanish state vessels into Death Penalty; and what recent assessment he has made British Gibraltar Territorial Waters with the Spanish of the prospects for global abolition of the death penalty. Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Mr Gonzalo de [189341] Benito, on 20 February. He also reiterated his proposal of April 2012 for ad hoc talks involving all relevant Mr Lidington: Global abolition of the death penalty parties. We will continue to use all necessary measures remains our firm goal, which we are pursuing through a to uphold UK sovereignty over British Gibraltar Territorial multi-year strategy (2011-15). We have raised the issue Waters. in bilateral discussions with countries of concern and in multilateral fora, and we continue to fund projects North Korea throughout the world in support of abolition. The international trend towards abolition of the death penalty Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for was last confirmed and reinforced when more countries Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is than ever before voted in support of the biennial UN taking in respect of advice from the UN Human Rights General Assembly resolution which calls for a worldwide Council to tackle human rights abuses in North Korea. moratorium-last held in 2012. We will continue to work [189027] intensively to help ensure that the 2014 UNGA resolution against the death penalty is again supported by more Mr Swire: The Government remains deeply concerned countries than ever. at the reports of shocking state sanctioned human rights violations in the Democratic People’s Republic of China Korea. I refer my hon. Friend to the written ministerial Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for statement of 24 February 2014, Official Report, columns 6- Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what plans he has 7WS. The Commission of Inquiry report will be formally to visit China in 2014. [189046] considered by the UN Human Rights Council when they meet in March. Mr Swire: As Minister of State for China I am keen that we continue to build the momentum in our bilateral The annual Foreign and Commonwealth Office Human relationship. I accompanied the Prime Minister on his Rights report includes the DPRK as a country of visit to China in December 2013. I hope visit again in concern. The full report can be found at: 2014. www.hrdreport.fco.gov.uk

Gibraltar Pakistan

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his Department has had with the European Commission representations he has received on the arrest and detention on Gibraltar in 2014 to date. [189019] of Pakistani anti-drones campaigner Mr Kareem Khan. [189439] Mr Lidington: UK officials have had extensive discussions on a number of issues with the European Commission Hugh Robertson: Following the reported detention of on Gibraltar in 2014. This includes a series of meetings Mr Khan I received representations from both members at a senior level in January. of the public and Members of Parliament in correspondence, FCO officials were also contacted by Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for diplomatic missions to discuss the case and potential Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the process responses. I understand that Mr Khan has been released is by which UK citizens can relocate to Gibraltar. by the Pakistan authorities. [189021] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Mr Lidington: HM Government of Gibraltar has for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will investigate constitutional responsibility in this area. Non-Gibraltarian reports of the arrest and detention of Pakistani anti-drones British citizens can enter Gibraltar on a valid passport campaigner Mr Kareem Khan. [189440] and remain in Gibraltar for up to three months. They would need to establish themselves as a qualified person Hugh Robertson: I am aware of Mr Khan’s case and (i.e. job seeker, worker, self-employed person or student) reports that Mr Khan has now been released by the to be given an extended right of residence. Pakistan authorities. 529W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 530W

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Mark Simmonds: In his statement of 24 February the for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will discuss Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth with his counterparts in the Pakistan government reports Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond of the arrest and detention of Pakistani anti-drones (Yorks) (Mr Hague), said there can be no doubt that campaigner Mr Kareem Khan. [189441] this Bill will increase persecution and discrimination of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) Hugh Robertson: I am aware of Mr Khan’s case and Ugandans. We have updated our Uganda Travel Advice reports that Mr Khan has now been released by the on the environment for LGBT travellers. The UK will Pakistan authorities. HMG regularly raises Human Rights continue to press the Government of Uganda to defend concerns at the highest levels with the Government of human rights for all, without discrimination on any Pakistan and will continue to do so. The Prime Minister grounds. raised Human Rights concerns when he visited Pakistan. Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Pakistan: Iran and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions his Department has had with the government of Uganda Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for about the effect on the human rights of LGBT people Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions of the new legislation to criminalise homosexuality. he has had with his counterpart in Pakistan on preventing [189345] tensions in the region following reports that Iran may Mark Simmonds: The UK Government has consistently send troops into Pakistan. [189028] raised its concerns about the anti-homosexuality legislation with the Ugandan Government at the most senior levels. Hugh Robertson: I am aware of the reports of potential I raised the issue with the Ugandan Foreign Minister on Iranian action following the detention of five border 28 December 2013, again on 28 January 2014, and most guards by the Jaish al-Adl separatist group on the recently with the Deputy Foreign Minister on 13 February Iran-Pakistan border earlier this month. 2014. I was able to hear at firsthand what life is like for I understand that Iran and Pakistan have been in LGBT people in Uganda during a meeting with Frank close contact since the abduction. The incident was Mugisha, Executive Director of Sexual Minorities Uganda discussed by both parties at a three day meeting of the (SMUG), on 11 February. Pakistan-Iran Joint Border Commission on 19-21 February. The Commission stressed the need for co-ordinated Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign efforts against cross-border terrorism and formed a and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has dedicated committee to pursue the recovery of the had with the Uganda authorities about the safety of kidnapped Iranian guards. Pakistan has clearly stated LGBT citizens and visitors to Uganda following the its willingness to act on any information concerning the publication of a list naming 200 people as homosexual presence of the guards in Pakistani territory. I support by Red Pepper. [189346] all efforts to ensure that the matter is resolved peacefully. Mark Simmonds: The British high commissioner in The UK is committed to promoting stability, peace Kampala met the Inspector General of Police to seek and security in the South Asia region. We hold regular and obtain assurances on the protection of LGBT discussions on these issues with the Pakistani Government, individuals and civil society organisations on 20 February. and with others in the region. Since its publication on 25 February, we have extensively discussed the Red Pepper list with Ugandan civil society. Peru We will continue to seek assurances from the Ugandan authorities, and to stress the need for responsible journalism Richard Burden: To ask the Secretary of State for in Uganda. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions Ukraine he has had with his Peruvian counterpart on the case of Melissa Reid and Michaella McCollum Connolly. Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for [188971] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is taking to offer diplomatic support to Ukraine. [189042] Mr Swire: I have followed the case closely since Melissa Reid and Michaella McCollum’s arrest on 7 Mr Lidington: The situation in Ukraine has been a August 2013 on drug trafficking charges. Consular staff great source of concern and the focus of attention in Lima are in close contact with the Peruvian authorities across Government. It is clear that the people of Ukraine and continue to provide full assistance to Ms Reid, who want to move towards a different future and the voices is also receiving support from the British charity, Prisoners of those who have protested over several months have Abroad. Officials are also in regular contact with Ms been heard. Reid’s family. The Irish Department for Foreign Affairs The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth is providing consular assistance to Michaella McCollum, Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond who is an Irish national. (Yorks) (Mr Hague), outlined on 24 February 2014, Official Report, columns 26-29, the UK Government’s Uganda work in supporting Ukraine. The Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign have discussed Ukraine with President Putin and Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment he has Minister Lavrov of Russia, with Chancellor Merkel and made of the risk to LGBT people resident in or visiting Prime Minister Tusk, and with Foreign Ministers from Uganda following the introduction of legislation to Germany, Poland and more widely at the G20 Foreign criminalise homosexuality in that country. [189344] Ministers in Australia. 531W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 532W

The UK Government, as part of the international USA community, will work with the new Government to encourage stability and reform and is working with Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Secretary of State for international partners to mobilise international financial Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what support his assistance to address the country’s serious economic Department provides for UK citizens extradited to the problems. US who have no means to support themselves. [189299] The Ukrainian Parliament-the Rada-is elected to represent the Ukrainian people. We welcome the swift Hugh Robertson: The Foreign and Commonwealth steps it has taken to appoint a new government of Office (FCO) and its missions overseas provide consular national unity which can rule Ukraine until new elections support to British nationals who find themselves in in May. Ukraine has a pressing need for constitutional difficulty abroad as laid out in the FCO publication reform, improvements to its political culture, free elections, ″Support for British nationals abroad: A guide″. an end to pervasive corruption and the building of a Support offered to all detainees includes visits, stable political structure. We look to the new Government explanation of local procedures and support to ensure to create the conditions for such change, in a spirit of health and welfare issues are property addressed in line reconciliation, and to ensure accountability for human with local standards. rights violations. However, the FCO is unable to offer financial support to British nationals in detention. However, small amounts Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for of funding for detainees with special needs is available Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) what in certain cases from charities working to support British discussions he has had with his Russian counterpart on nationals in detention overseas. the political instability in Ukraine; [189047] (2) what steps he has taken to ensure that British diplomatic contacts with Ministers and officials in COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Ukraine are held with representatives of the legitimate government of that country; [189237] Community Assets: West Yorkshire (3) with reference to the statement on 24 February 2014 by Prime Minister Medvedev of Russia that the Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for current situation in Ukraine represents armed mutiny, Communities and Local Government how many what assessment he has made of the activities and applications were made across (a) West Yorkshire and status of the interim authorities in that country. [189243] (b) Leeds North West constituency to list (i) facilities and (ii) buildings as Assets of Community Value; and Mr Lidington: The situation in Ukraine has been a how many such applications were approved. [189366] great source of concern and the focus of attention across Government. It is clear that the people of Ukraine Stephen Williams: Local authorities are responsible want to move towards a different future and the voices for administering the Assets of Community Value scheme. of those who have protested over several months have The Government does not require local authorities to been heard. report on the numbers and types of buildings and facilities that have been nominated and listed as Assets The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth of Community Value. Under the scheme, local authorities Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond maintain a list of assets that have been listed in their (Yorks) (Mr Hague), outlined on 24 February 2014, area which they must make available on request. Official Report, columns 26-29, the UK Government’s work in supporting Ukraine. The Prime Minister, the Leeds City Council’s Assets of Community Value list Foreign Secretary and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, can be found at: have discussed Ukraine with President Putin and Foreign http://www.leeds.gov.uk/docs/2014-02-07%20List%20of%20 Minister Lavrov of Russia, with Chancellor Merkel and Assets%20of%20Community%20Value.pdf Prime Minister Tusk, and with Foreign Ministers from Equality Germany, Poland and more widely at the G20 Foreign Ministers in Australia. Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities The UK Government, as part of the international and Local Government how many publications his community, will work with the new Government to Department has produced for the purposes of monitoring encourage stability and reform and is working with or promoting staff equality and diversity in each of the international partners to mobilise international financial last five years; and what the cost of producing such assistance to address the country’s serious economic publications was in each such year. [188895] problems. The Ukrainian Parliament-the Rada-is elected to Brandon Lewis: [holding answer 26 February 2014]: represent the Ukrainian people. We welcome the swift As required by secondary legislation issued under the steps it has taken to appoint a new government of Equality Act 2010, the Department has published a national unity which can rule Ukraine until new elections yearly report on the public sector equality duty, and a in May. Ukraine has a pressing need for constitutional document outlining its equality objectives. There is no reform, improvements to its political culture, free elections, substantive cost other than some staff time. an end to pervasive corruption and the building of a We have taken steps to reduce the excessive length of stable political structure. We look to the new Government such monitoring reports, reflecting the recommendations to create the conditions for such change, in a spirit of of the Review of the Public Sector Equality Duty to reconciliation, and to ensure accountability for human scale back gold-plating of the Act and reduce unnecessary rights violations. paperwork. 533W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 534W

Housing: Standards Given the flaws in the programme, and in light of the housing market recovery under this Government, we do Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities not intend to replace this taxpayer-funded intervention and Local Government what guidance he has issued to in the housing market. local authorities on the length of time families with According to the Bank of England, the number of children should stay in annexe accommodation provided new mortgage arrears cases in the last quarter is the under Part 1 of the Housing Act 2004. [189371] lowest number since its time series began in 2007 (Bank of England, “Mortgage Lenders and Administrators Kris Hopkins: The Homelessness (Suitability of Statistics”, 10 December 2013). According to the Council for Accommodation) (England) Order 2003 makes clear Mortgage Lenders, the number of repossessions is at its that bed and breakfast accommodation provided under lowest level since 2007 and falling; it is also revising down Part 7 of the Housing Act 1996 should only be used to its forecasts for 2014 (“CML press release”, 14 November house homeless households with children in an emergency, 2013). This is not to be complacent. But I would note and then for no longer than six weeks. that critical to this fall in repossessions is the action the Statutory guidance reiterates this restriction and states Coalition Government has taken to keep interest rates that where bed and breakfast accommodation is secured down by tackling the Labour Government’s deficit. the authority should notify the household of the effect I would add that enhancements to the Support for of the Order. Mortgage Interest scheme (shortened waiting times and We have increased transparency by publishing a list increased capital limits) remain in place until March of all local authorities who have used bed and breakfast 2015 for eligible out-of-work households. The Government for families with children for longer than six weeks. Bed continues to ensure the provision of free on-the-day and breakfast accommodation is defined as accommodation legal advice (the Housing Possession Court Duty Scheme) which is not self-contained and in which a toilet, personal to assist households at possession hearings. We are washing facilities or cooking facilities are shared by providing £470 million of funding in the current spending more than one household. As such any annexes where review period to prevent and tackle homelessness and facilities are shared will be included within published repossessions. I would also encourage anyone who is statistics and can only be used in an emergency and concerned about getting into mortgage difficulties to then for no longer than six weeks. contact their lender at the first opportunity. The Government is determined to tackle this unlawful Parking and damaging practice and has made available £2 million in 2013-14 to support local authorities to develop innovative Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for and sustainable solutions to the problems which drive Communities and Local Government if he will ensure the use of bed and breakfast accommodation. Recent that any measures introduced as a result of the local authority reports indicate that this approach is starting to take parking review being undertaken by his Department will effect, with local authorities in receipt of funding not have a detrimental impact on the safety of children. significantly reducing the number of families with children [189326] in bed and breakfast accommodation. Brandon Lewis: Yes. We will carefully consider all the We are also committed to helping other authorities public policy issues as we review the responses to the by drawing on the lessons learned from the funding. We consultation. have earmarked £100,000 to use to identify good practice However, I would observe that the Local Government which will be shared with other local authorities. Association has claimed that the coalition Government’s proposals to ban CCTV parking cameras: Mortgages: Government Assistance “will put children at risk”. This is a false and spurious claim. Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what steps he CCTV spy cars are a recent and modern innovation plans to take to replace the mortgage rescue scheme; from legislation passed by the last Labour Government. They are just an excuse for councils to raise money from and if he will make a statement. [186494] issuing parking fines on an industrial scale. They undermine Kris Hopkins: The Mortgage Rescue Scheme was natural justice, as car owners receive the fine weeks later a time-limited scheme introduced under the last in the post making it extremely hard to challenge on Administration following the Labour Government’s housing appeal. Nothing we are proposing to do will prevent a crash in 2008. The scheme had lower take-up than parking warden or police officer issuing a penalty notice predicted, was expensive and offered poor value for in the case of genuinely dangerous parking. money. It is hard-pressed parents who get hit with the fines from such Stasi surveillance. Public confidence is The National Audit Office evaluated the last strengthened in CCTV if it is used to tackle serious Administration’s scheme and noted: crime, not to raise money for town halls by penalising ‘In the way it implemented and managed the Scheme, the parents dropping off kids on the school run. Department has not delivered value for money. The Department did not adequately test the assumptions underpinning the Scheme’s In their rush to bankroll CCTV spy cameras for business case; misjudged the demand for different types of mortgage parking enforcement, it would appear from recent media rescue; and did not take action early enough to improve the value reports that parts of local government have had no obtained from public investment in the Scheme after realising its qualms about sacking lollipop men and women. Crossing initial assumptions were wide of the mark’ patrols do a sterling job in protecting children from (National Audit Office, “The Mortgage Rescue Scheme”, danger—but, unfortunately, unlike spy cars, they do not May 2011, HC 1030, p.10). raise money for council coffers. 535W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 536W

Travellers: Caravan Sites Communications Act 2003 Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Roberta Blackman-Woods: To ask the Secretary of how many convictions there have been under section 127 State for Communities and Local Government (1) what of the Digital Communications Act 2003 since 2011; and steps his Department takes if a local authority assessment how many such convictions have related to communications of Gypsy and Traveller need is unsatisfactory and results (a) sent to an individual, (b) sent to a small group and in too little land or too few sites coming forward; and (c) widely available to the public. [187926] how his Department measures the adequacy of such assessments; [187594] Jeremy Wright: The Director of Public Prosecutions (2) how many local authorities have developed realistic (DPP) has published guidance in relation to abusive and inclusive policies as set out in his Department’s and/or threatening behaviour online. This is an area of Planning policy for traveller sites guidance; and how his concern for Government and the legislative position in Department evaluates these policies; [187595] relation to this is clear: where behaviour is illegal off-line, (3) what mechanisms his Department uses to determine it is also illegal on-line, and there are a number of pieces whether private Traveller site provision is adequate; of legislation which can be, and are, used to prosecute. [187599] The number of defendant found guilty at all courts (4) how many additional Gypsy and Traveller sites for offences under section 127 of the Communications have come forward in each region of England (a) in Act 2003, in England and Wales, from 2008 to 2012 (the 2013 and (b) since 2010. [187629] latest data available) can be viewed in the table. The proportion of offenders given custody for this Brandon Lewis: Local planning authorities are obliged offence has increased since 2010. to plan to meet the needs of their traveller communities The Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings Database in the same way as they do for the settled community. holds information on defendants proceeded against, This involves an objective assessment of need, which found guilty and sentenced for criminal offences in England provides the basis for proposed site provision in the and Wales. This database holds information on offences Local Plan and whose soundness is subject to examination provided by the statutes under which proceedings are by an inspector from the Planning Inspectorate. It is brought but not the specific circumstances of each case. similarly for local authorities to determine the right It is not possible to separately identify, in all cases brought balance between private and local authority run pitches. under section 127 of the Communications Act 2003, The twice-yearly count of traveller caravans provides whether a defendant sent or caused to send information figures on total numbers of caravans and on numbers of to an individual or a small group of individuals or made socially-rented sites. Published statistics are available at: the information widely available to the public. This https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/traveller-caravan- detailed information may be held by the courts on count individual case files which due to their size and complexity Written Questions: Government Responses are not reported to Justice Analytical Services. As such this information can be obtained only at disproportionate Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for cost. Communities and Local Government when he plans to answer Question 185266 tabled for ordinary answer on Court proceeding data for the year 2013 are planned 27 January 2014. [189329] for publication in May 2014 Defendants found guilty at all courts for offences under section 127 of the Kris Hopkins: PQ 185266 was answered on 24 February Communications Act 2003, England and Wales, 2008-121,2 2014, Official Report, columns 119-20W. Total guilty Offence Statute description 20083 2009 2010 2011 2012 JUSTICE Section 127 Sending or 693 873 1,186 1,309 1,423 Chemicals Communication causing Act 2003 sending of Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice grossly offensive / how many people were convicted of using ethylene indecent / glycol-based anti-freeze products deliberately with the obscene / intention to poison in each of the last five years. menacing or false [188902] message/ matter by Jeremy Wright: The Ministry of Justice Court electronic Proceedings Database holds information on defendants communications proceeded against, found guilty and sentenced for criminal network 1 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for offences in England and Wales. This database holds whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt information on offences provided by the statutes under with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the which proceedings are brought but not the specific offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which circumstances of each case. It is not possible to separately the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. identify from this centrally held information whether a 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and defendant was convicted for the use of ethylene glycol-based complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police anti-freeze products from other products. This detailed forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection information may be held on the court record but due to processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those the size and complexity is not reported centrally to the data are used. 3 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July and August 2008. MOJ. As such, the information requested can be obtained Source: only at disproportionate cost. Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice. 537W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 538W

Community Orders: Greater London Table 1: Appeals applications in the family courts (number and percentage of orders appealed) Total number of Appeals against DJ orders made (in both decisions as Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Appeal applications family proceedings percentage of all (1) what average time is taken to answer telephone calls against district judge courts and county (DJ and CJ) orders by Serco with regards to placements for offenders as decisions courts) made in the year part of the London Community Payback contract; 2012 406 455,668 0.09 [186279] Notes: 1. Family Proceedings Courts were rolled out during 2009 and 2010 so data is (2) what targets are included in Serco’s contract for incomplete for these years. Community Payback in London; [186280] 2. These data are taken from a live case management system and should be considered as Management Information only. (3) how many offenders have been incorrectly 3. Family cases in the family courts include public law child appeals, private law assigned places as part of Community Payback in child appeals, Family Law Act appeals and adoption appeals. London since Serco was awarded the contract for the 4. The number of appeal applications and the number of orders made are counts for number made during each year; they are not ’case-tracked’ (eg an delivery of that programme. [186340] appeal made in 2009 may relate to an order made prior to 2009). 5. The number of orders made in family proceedings court and county court cases are for work load indicative purposes only. They are not the same as other Jeremy Wright: The information requested could not published figures for the numbers of children or the numbers of cases in be obtained within the timescale. I will write to the right adoption, public law, private law and Family Law Act cases. hon. Member in due course. Table 2: Number of family cases appealed to the Court of Appeal Number of overall Family permission to permission Percentage Permission appeal to appeal of overall to appeal Appeals applications1 filed work allowed allowed Family Law: Appeals 2009 2,486 414 17 84 49 2010 2,732 504 18 96 65 Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011 3,103 502 16 119 59 Justice (1) how many family law cases applied for leave 2012 3,162 552 17 128 70 1 Admin courts, Queen’s bench, chancery, county courts, IA tribunals, other to appeal after their case has been heard in court in tribunals, family. each year between 2009 and 2013; [187796] Fines (2) how many family law cases have been successful in applying for leave to appeal in each year between Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 2009 and 2013; [187795] (1) how many full-time equivalent staff were employed (3) how many family law cases in which Leave to by his Department on the enforcement of payment of Appeal was obtained had their original judgment fines in (a) 2010, (b) 2011, (c) 2012 and (d) 2013; overturned in each year from 2009 to 2013. [187854] [185415] (2) how many full-time equivalent staff worked on Simon Hughes: Appeals against decisions in the family the collection of confiscation orders in each year since courts and family proceedings courts made by district 2010; [185452] judges are heard by circuit judges and appeals against (3) how many full-time equivalent staff of his circuit judges’ decisions are heard in the Court of Department worked on collection of fines in (a) 2010, Appeal. Table 1, as follows, shows the number of (b) 2011, (c) 2012 and (d) 2013. [186100] applications to appeal against district judge decisions in the family courts. Leave to appeal being granted or Mr Vara: The number of full-time equivalent (FTE) refused is not recorded on the family courts case staff employed by Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunal management system, nor are the results of appeals. The Service (HMCTS) in the area of enforcement of the only way HMCTS could estimate these totals would be payments of fines and on the collection of confiscation to manually check the case files in the following totals orders as a snapshot as at 31 December for the years and this would incur disproportionate costs. Data for 2010 to 2013 is shown in the following table. These cases in the Court of Appeal are published annually on figures were obtained from the Human Resource (HR) a calendar year basis and the data for 2013 is due to be system on 30 January 2014. It is not possible to differentiate published in June 2014 and will not be available until on the HR system between those staff employed in then. Table 2, as follows, shows the number of applications enforcement as opposed to collection of fines. for permission to appeal relating to family matters filed Enforcement as a separate HMCTS function was not in the Court of Appeal, the number of those applications created until June 2011. For data purposes prior to that allowed, and the number of appeals allowed for 2009 to date, the business code name and hierarchy information 2012. has been used to identify staff who work in enforcement Table 1: Appeals applications in the family courts (number and percentage of and/or confiscation. orders appealed) Total number of Appeals against DJ Strength orders made (in both decisions as Other Total Appeal applications family proceedings percentage of all enforcement Confiscation Total FTE headcount against district judge courts and county (DJ and CJ) orders decisions courts) made in the year 31 December 1,515.62 26.22 1,541.84 1,649 2010 2009 263 341,694 0.08 31 December 1,786.52 33.35 1,819.87 1,992 2010 335 403,543 0.08 2011 2011 401 450,846 0.09 539W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 540W

(2) what steps Ministers in his Department took Strength when first informed of allegations of mistreatment at Other Total enforcement Confiscation Total FTE headcount Medomsley Detention Centre; [187521]

31 December 1,474.53 38.71 1,513.24 1,668 (3) when Ministers in his Department were first 2012 informed of allegations of mistreatment at Medomsley 31 December 1,335.31 46.87 1,382.18 1,537 Detention Centre; [187522] 2013 (4) whether his Department has asked the police Fixed Penalties formally to investigate allegations of mistreatment at the Medomsley Detention Centre; [188443] Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (5) how many allegations of mistreatment at the how many full-time equivalent staff worked on the Medomsley Detention Centre his Department has collection of penalty notice orders in each of the last receivedtodate. [187895] four years. [186161] Jeremy Wright: In 2003, the police investigated allegations Mr Vara: It is not possible to identify the he number of abuse against Neville Husband, a former employee of full-time equivalent staff working in fixed penalty at Medomsley Detention Centre. Mr Husband was offices over the last four years. It is not possible to convicted of offences in 2003. Medomsley Detention differentiate on the Human Resource system between Centre was closed in the early 1980s. those staff working in fixed penalty offices and other Ministers, in the current administration, were informed enforcement functions. of the allegations of sexual abuse at Medomsley Detention Gender Recognition Centre in September 2011, in relation to a civil claim brought by a former detainee at Medomsley. Ministers Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for were advised that Durham Constabulary had reopened Justice what plans she has to review the Gender their investigation into the allegations of sexual abuse Recognition Act 2004 to remove the spousal veto for at Medomsley Detention Centre in December 2013. gender reassignment. [187510] I can confirm that the Ministry of Justice has received 46 complaints from former detainees of Medomsley Simon Hughes: The Government has no plans to Detention Centre to date. I am unable to comment any review the Gender Recognition Act 2004. There is no further on the complaints because of the ongoing legal spousal veto currently in the 2004 Act and there will be proceedings. I regret that I am unable to answer any no spousal veto when the gender recognition provisions specific questions regarding the police investigation other of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013 are than to assure the right hon. Gentleman that the Ministry implemented. All applicants for gender recognition will, of Justice will fully cooperate with Durham Constabulary as now, be able to obtain their legal gender change regarding this matter. regardless of their spouse’s views. Since 2011, the Ministry of Justice has provided over Under the new provisions in the 2013 Act, couples £5 million to organisations to support both male and who wish to stay married following gender recognition female victims of sexual violence. The right hon. Gentleman will each need to complete statutory declarations to this will be aware that the Government has committed £500,000 effect. This will allow the Gender Recognition Panel to over the next financial year to provide services including issue a full gender recognition certificate to the applicant. advice and counselling, specifically to help male victims. Where the couple do not wish to stay married, the I understand that Durham Constabulary is providing Panel will, as now, issue an interim gender recognition support for the victims that have come forward since the certificate. This will allow either party to initiate proceedings investigation reopened in 2013. to annul their marriage and the applicant to obtain their full certificate. Ministers’ Private Offices Maghull Prison

Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for how much his Department spent on the construction of Justice what the size, in square metres, of the offices HM Prison Maghull before the project was cancelled in assigned to each of his Department’s Ministers is; and how many officials, at what grade, work in the private 2010. [189214] offices of each of his Department’s Ministers. [188321] Jeremy Wright: I refer the right hon. Member to the answers given on 21 December 2010, Official Report, Mr Vara: The total size of the offices assigned to the column 1163W, and 21 December 2010, Official Report, Department’s Ministers and the number of officials, by column 1164W. There has been no additional cost since grade, working in the private offices of each of the that answer. Department’s Ministers is detailed in the following table. To protect individual privacy, as they have five or Medomsley Secure Training Centre fewer officials supporting them, only the total number of officials supporting Simon Hughes, Lord Faulks, Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Shailesh Vara, Jeremy Wright and Damian Green is (1) what support his Department is providing to the provided. Damian Green is also supported in his private victims of mistreatment at Medomsley Detention office by Home Office officials as a joint Ministry of Centre; [187520] Justice and Home Office Minister. 541W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 542W

Secretary of State Simon Hughes Lord Faulks Shailesh Vara Jeremy Wright Damian Green

Office size 75.8m2 including a 39.6m2 31.5m2 39.6m2 38.9m2 38.9m2 boardroom Number of 1 x SCS PBl 3 x Band A officials 2 x Band A 3 x Fast-stream 2 x Band C 4 x Band C 2 x Fast-stream 3 x Band D 3 x Band D 1 x NOMS Grade 7

The State of the Estate Report reports annually on ‘Working at height’ covers those instances when a progress made during the year in improving the efficiency prisoner has scaled a roof, onto the netting between of the Government’s civil estate. The results for 2013 landings or onto any other raised surface and cannot be will be presented to Parliament later this year. Results safely removed from ground level. NTRG has devised for 2012 show: strategies and equipment to enable them to safely retrieve continued progress, with the total size of the estate falling by someone from a height. 5% and the amount of occupied space being around 13m2/FTE; at £409/m2, we out-perform the private sector benchmark on Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice cost per square metre by 3%. which members of staff holding the positions of (a) In London, the size of the Government’s central civil Director, (b) Deputy Director, (c) Activities Manager, estate was reduced by over 491,309m2 (or around 22%) (d) Head of Reducing Re-offending, (e) Head of Safer from 1 May 2010 to 1 December 2013. Custody, (f) Head of Security, (g) Head of Community Engagement and (h) Head of Performance at the time From 1 May 2010 to 1 December 2013 the Government of HM Prison Oakwood taking its first inmates had 2 exited just over 1.8 million m , reducing the size of its previous experience of (i) working, (ii) less than one mandated estate by around 17%. year service, (iii) between one and five years service and Across the central civil estate, the Government Property (iv) over five years working in the prison system. Unit has recorded savings on annual running costs from [188742] early exits from leasehold, PFIs or disposals of freehold property of £454 million per annum from May 2010 to Jeremy Wright: The information requested could not March 2013. be obtained within the timescale. I will write to the right Departments have been advised to work towards (i) hon. Member in due course. an 8:10 desk ratio or less, and (ii) work in open plan offices with no single occupancy offices except Ministers Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice and in exceptional cases other senior officials. This which members of staff holding the positions of (a) change will release space for use by other Government Director, (b) Deputy Director, (c) Activities Manager, Departments or will enable buildings to be returned to (d) Head of Reducing Re-offending, (e) Head of Safer the open market or sold, thus reducing the overheads of Custody, (f) Head of Security, (g) Head of Community Government. Engagement and (h) Head of Performance at the time of HM Prison Oakwood taking its first inmates had previous experience of working in a new prison when it Oakwood Prison took its first inmates. [188743]

Jeremy Wright: The information requested could not Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice be obtained within the timescale. I will write to the right on how many occasions the National Tactical Response hon. Member in due course. Group has been called out to Oakwood Prison since the opening of that prison; on what date each such call-out occurred; and what the nature of the incident was. Office of the Public Guardian [182761] Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Jeremy Wright: HMP Oakwood, currently contracted how many staff were employed in the Office of the out to G4S, opened in April 2012. Since that date there Public Guardian Investigations Unit in each year since have been five occasions when the National Tactical 2010. [184955] Response Group (NTRG) has been called out to attend incidents, as follows: Simon Hughes: In July 2010 there were 40.35 full time equivalent staff members in the Compliance Unit. As Count Date Nature of incident of January 2014 the unit has expanded to 54.07 full 1 11 October 2013 Working at height time equivalent staff members. 2 20 November 2013 Working at height The Investigation Unit is part of the larger Compliance 3 27 November 2013 Working at height Unit, which includes staff who deal with Type 1 deputy 4 5 December 2013 Working at height supervision cases, safeguarding and court applications. 5 5 January 2014 Concerted indiscipline As the work they carry out often overlaps we are unable to provide specific numbers for the Investigation Unit. 543W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 544W

In comparison there are currently 106 staff members Simon Hughes: The Public Guardian has statutory employed to work with Deputy cases generally, within authority to investigate complaints, or allegations of the supervision function. abuse, made against deputies or attorneys acting under The relevant figures are in the following table. registered powers. The Compliance Unit deals with complex cases and in particular investigations into concerns Compliance about deputies and attorneys. Investigation plays an Unit Headcount Full Time Equivalent important role in safeguarding clients from abuse. July 2010 43 40.35 Complaints and enquiries forwarded to the Compliance July 2011 51 48.9 Unit by the wider OPG are recorded as referrals. July 2012 51 48.9 Investigations are commenced by the Investigations Unit July 2013 55 52.9 subject to an assessment of the evidence provided. In January 56 54.07 2014 cases where the OPG has no jurisdiction referrals are signposted to other appropriate agencies.

Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice The figures for referrals and subsequent investigations (1) how many (a) complaints and (b) enquiries the can be found as follows. The categories of ’further Office of the Public Guardian Investigation Unit has action’ and ’no further action’ have been recorded since received in each of the last three years; and how many April 2013. ’Further action’ outcomes are recorded such complaints resulted in (A) no further action, (B) when the OPG requires a third party (ie the deputy/attorney) further investigation and (C) court proceedings; to make an application to the Court of Protection or [184956] where the OPG monitors a case for a certain time (2) how many complaints and enquiries the Office of frame. the Public Guardian Investigations Unit received in each month of the last three years. [184967]

(1) Result of referrals by year Investigations Referrals Public Guardian Financial year Referrals received started signposted application to court Further action No further action

2011-12 3,653 430 1,550 117 - - 2012-13 2,982 532 2,102 171 - - 2013-14 2,969 452 929 177 51 137

(2) Referrals received by month Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Total

2010-11 ------137168189494 2011-12 269 228 244 249 278 306 311 314 289 378 383 404 3,653 2012-13 216 292 196 285 241 185 356 205 228 247 293 238 2,982 2013-14 299 231 230 282 423 420 385 419 280---2,969

Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Cost (£) what the cost of running the Office of the Public Guardian Investigations Unit was in each of the last 2009-10 1,636,789 four years. [185488] 2010-11 1,479,856 2011-12 1,455,954 2012-13 1,688,141 Simon Hughes: The Office of the Public Guardian 2013-14 (YTD) 1,322,325 (OPG) is self funded through customer fees. It is responsible for funding all of its operational costs excluding funding for exemptions and remissions, which is supplied by the Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Ministry of Justice (MOJ). As such the cost of the OPG what the budget of the Office of the Public Guardian to the tax payer is minimal. will be in 2014-15. [187548] The OPG is committed to lowering its operational Simon Hughes: The budgets for 2014-15 have not yet costs in order to offer reduced fee levels to its clients. been finalised; however, the indicative allocation for the Maintaining the quality of its services is paramount, Office of the Public Guardian (OPG) is £43,367,000 of particularly in its role in safeguarding vulnerable groups. which £2,933,000 is capital. Following a restructure in 2010-11 the Investigations Unit was embedded in the Compliance Unit, which Prison Sentences includes staff who deal with Type 1 deputy supervision cases, safeguarding and court applications. Post 2010-11 the cost of the Investigations Unit was included in the Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Compliance Unit cost. In order to allow for comparability what the average length of custodial sentence handed down across the years the cost of the Compliance Unit as it is to people found guilty of (a) the offence of making or currently structured has been provided. possessing an explosive under suspicious circumstances, (b) weapons training for terrorism and (c) training for The requested costs can be found as follows. terrorism was in each of the last 10 years. [188576] 545W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 546W

Jeremy Wright: Sentencing in individual cases is a found guilty and sentenced for criminal offences in matter for the courts, within the maximum penalty set England and Wales. This database holds information by Parliament for the offence. The Government has on offences provided by the statutes under which introduced provisions in the Criminal Justice and Courts proceedings are brought but not the specific circumstances Bill to increase the maximum penalty for these offences of each case. It is not possible to separately identify, in to life, and to add these and other terrorism-related offences all cases brought under the ’Terrorism Act 2006’, whether to the enhanced dangerous offender sentencing regime. an offender was found guilty for weapons training for These provisions will ensure that robust sentences can terrorism. This detailed information may be held by the be imposed where necessary on the most serious and courts on individual case files which due to their size dangerous terrorist offenders in a wide range of cases. and complexity are not reported to Justice Statistics The number of offenders sentenced and given an Analytical Services. As such, it can be obtained only at average custodial sentence length (months) at all courts disproportionate cost. for selected terrorism offences, in England and Wales, Court proceeding data from 2013 are planned for from 2003 to 2012 (latest data available) can be viewed publication in May 2014. in the table. The Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings Database holds information on defendants proceeded against,

Offenders sentenced and given an average custodial sentence length (months) at all courts for selected terrorism offences, England and Wales, 2003-121,2 Statute Offence Outcome 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012

Explosive Manufacture, Sentenced ********513 Substances possession or Act 1883 control of S.4(1) explosives under suspicious circumstances Immediate ********45 custody Of which:

Average ********24.524.8 custodial sentence length (months)3,4

Terrorism Providing Sentenced *****1**** Act 2006 instruction or S.6(1)(5) training for terrorism Immediate *****1**** custody Of which:

Average *****59.0**** custodial sentence length (months)3,4

Terrorism Receiving Sentenced ******2*** Act 2006 instruction or S.6(2) & (5) training for terrorism Immediate ******2*** custody Of which:

Average ******84.0*** custodial sentence length (months)3,4

Terrorism Attending any Sentenced *****4**** Act 2006 S.8 place in UK or elsewhere for instruction training in terrorism Immediate *****4**** custody 547W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 548W

Offenders sentenced and given an average custodial sentence length (months) at all courts for selected terrorism offences, England and Wales, 2003-121,2 Statute Offence Outcome 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012

Of which: Average *****44.8**** custodial sentence length (months)3,4 “*” = Nil 1 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed fortwoor more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extractedfrom large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 3 Excludes life and indeterminate sentences. 4 Care should be taken when interpreting these figures as averages are based on small numbers. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice

Prison Service Prisoners: Foreign Nationals

Mr Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Justice pursuant to the answer of 5 February 2014, how many prison officers taking voluntary early departure Official Report, column 293W, on prisoners: foreign since May 2010 have had (a) up to six, (b) 6to12,(c) nationals, which three countries have the next largest 12 to 18, (d) 18 to 24 and (e) over 24 months’ continuous number of foreign nationals in UK prisons; and what service. [181126] steps he is taking to return those offenders to secure Jeremy Wright: There were 1,430 prison officers (numbers detention in their own countries. [187003] rounded to the nearest 10) in the public sector who took Jeremy Wright: The countries with the 4th, 5th and up voluntary early departure between 1 May 2010 and 6th largest populations of Foreign Nationals in UK 30 September 2013 and all had over 24 months’ continuous prisons on 31 December 2013 are: service. 4. Romania (547) 5. Pakistan (548) Prisoners: Females 6. Lithuania (502) Romania has now implemented the EU Prisoner Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Transfer Arrangement and we expect to start transfers what programmes and interventions are provided to later this year. We have a voluntary prisoner transfer female victims of domestic violence in prison; in which arrangement with Pakistan and are currently exploring women’s prisons such programmes and interventions how we can make it more effective. Lithuania is due to are currently available; and how much central Government implement the EUPTA later this year and as soon as funding has been made available to such programmes they do we will start referring prisoners to the Home and interventions in 2013-14 and 2014-15. [188005] Office to get the deportation orders required for transfer. Simon Hughes: The following table shows the centrally In January this year we signed a compulsory PTA recorded domestic violence programmes and interventions with Nigeria (7th largest population of FNOs) and last being delivered across the women’s prison estate during year we signed a PTA with Albania (11th). We expect to 2013-14. The cost of these programmes is met by local see prisoner transfers to both these countries before the prison budgets. Information about what programmes end of this year. will be delivered during 2014-15 will be published by the Prisoners: Self-harm end of April 2014. Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if Programme Establishment he will assess how psychiatric input would improve the Sexual and domestic abuse in HMP/YOI Styal Assessment Care in Custody Teamwork process. childhood counselling [188714]

Domestic violence victim work HMP/YOI Drake Hall Jeremy Wright: The Assessment, Care in Custody and Teamwork (ACCT) process is a prisoner-centred,

Women Ahead programme HMP/YOI Holloway flexible care planning system for those identified as at risk of suicide or self-harm. It already benefits from psychiatric input where appropriate. Power to Change Programme HMP/YOI Newhall HMP/YOI Bronzefield An ACCT plan will be put in place following a prisoner’s episode of self-harm or where a risk has been identified. This may include a referral for a mental Freedom Programme HMP/YOI Low Newton health assessment which could lead to psychiatric input HMP/YOI Peterborough dependent on individual needs. The ACCT process HMP/YOI East Sutton Park includes provision for enhanced case management of HMP/YOI Styal prisoners presenting heightened or exceptional risk of harm to themselves. 549W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 550W

Prisons Jeremy Wright: The National Offender Management Service’s National Tactical Response Group (NTRG) is Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice a specialist resource to assist both public and private (1) what new capacity has (a) been introduced and (b) sector establishments in safely managing and resolving been removed from each prison in England and Wales serious incidents in prisons. in each month since January 2013; [176204] NTRG staff have been called to attend incidents at (2) what (a) new capacity has come on stream and only 51% of establishments in the past year. There has (b) capacity has been taken out of use, by prison, been a rise in the number of call-outs during 2013. This across the secure estate in England and Wales for each is mainly due to minor incidents such as prisoners month since 1 January 2013. [177032] protesting by climbing onto the netting between landings. NTRG staff have the specialist skills required to deal Jeremy Wright: The Government will always ensure with such incidents which accounted for 67% of all the there are enough prison places for those sentenced to call-outs during 2013, and they are frequently called to custody by the courts. The Lord Chancellor and Secretary attend as a precautionary measure. Not all call-outs of State for Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member result in engagement by NTRG staff, with a number of for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), has committed situations being resolved locally. Of all the incidents to ensuring that there will be more adult male prison NTRG attended during 2013, 74% were resolved by places available at the end of this Parliament than there surrender. There has been no rise in the number of were at the start. serious incidents being attended. At the same time we are taking steps to modernise the The following table sets out the occasions from 1 January prison estate and to drive down costs, in order to deliver 2013 to 31 December 2013 when the National Tactical better value for money for the taxpayer. In fact the Response Group has been called out to public and NAO has recently commented that the wider strategy private sector establishments. This information does for the prison estate is the most coherent and comprehensive not include aborted call-outs: for a generation. Statistics on capacity at each prison are published on Count Date Establishment a monthly basis and the figures for 2013 are available at: 2013 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/prison-population- 1 2 January Rye Hill figures 2 3 January Featherstone We manage capacity on a dynamic basis and bring 3 3 January Hull capacity on and off stream as we need to, including as a 4 4 January Styal result of planned maintenance, the opening of new 5 4 January Littlehey capacity and the closure of older, more inefficient places. 6 8 January Nottingham The Secretary of State has made two major 7 9 January Wetherby announcements on our estate modernisation plans, which 8 10 January Werrington will deliver significant savings for the taxpayer. In January 9 11 January Hull 2013, the Secretary of State announced the closure of 10 28 January Lindholme 2,600 old and uneconomic places through the closure of 11 28 January Camp Hill six prisons and the partial closure of accommodation in 12 29 January Wandsworth three other sites. This followed the opening of 1,600 13 4 February Lowdham Grange places at HMP Oakwood and the development of plans 14 5 February Werrington to provide up to 1,260 new places through new houseblocks 15 7 February Stoke Heath at four sites. The written ministerial statement providing 16 8 February Werrington details can be found at: 17 13 February Rye Hill 18 14 February Long Lartin http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/ cm130110/wmstext/130110m0001.htm#13011037000004 19 16 February Northumberland 20 18 February Highdown In September 2013, the Secretary of State announced 21 21 February Highdown that we were able to close a further 1,400 uneconomic 22 22 February Featherstone places at four sites and the conversion of an additional 23 27 February Werrington 600 places at HMP The Verne to hold immigration 24 28 February Wetherby detainees. At the same time, we announced that we were 25 2 March Swinfen Hall starting work to build a large new prison in North 26 3 March Parc Wales, delivering up to 2,000 new places. The written 27 4 March Rye Hill ministerial statement providing details can be found at: 28 6 March Cookham Wood http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/ 29 9 March Moorland cm130904/wmstext/130904m0001.htm#13090427000004 30 11 March Wetherby 31 11 March Wetherby Prisons: Civil Disorder 32 12 March Hindley 33 12 March Northumberland 34 13 March Hindley Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 35 13 March Hindley on which occasions the National Tactical Response 36 16 March Swinfen Hall Group (NTRG) was called out in each month in 2013; 37 23 March Preston and to which prison the NTRG was called out in each 38 30 March Lowdham Grange such case. [182762] 551W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 552W

Count Date Establishment Count Date Establishment

39 1 April Wetherby 103 9 July Dovegate 40 1 April Stocken 104 9 July Wymott 41 2 April Hindley 105 10 July Haverigg 42 2 April Wayland 106 10 July Stafford 43 4 April Guys Marsh 107 14 July Aylesbury 44 7 April Morton Hall 108 16 July Deerbolt 45 11 April Lincoln 109 18 July Stafford 46 11 April Winchester 110 18 July Pentonville 47 16 April Hindley 111 22 July Risley 48 17 April Rye Hill 112 27 July Onley 49 19 April Woodhill 113 28 July Everthorpe 50 22 April Long Lartin 114 28 July Feltham 51 23 April Swaleside 115 29 July Wetherby 52 25 April Peterborough 116 1 August Winchester 53 26 April Ranby 117 3 August Hewell 54 26 April Woodhill 118 6 August Swinfen Hall 55 27 April Woodhill 119 6 August Rye Hill 56 5 May Garth 120 7 August Moorland 57 5 May Hindley 121 13 August Glen Parva 58 6 May Onley 122 18 August Lowdham Grange 59 7 May Woodhill 123 18 August Hindley 60 8 May Lewes 124 18 August Liverpool 61 10 May Highpoint 125 19 August Leeds 62 12 May Lowdham Grange 126 21 August Winchester 63 14 May Featherstone 127 21 August Glen Parva 64 17 May Aylesbury 128 23 August Wandsworth 65 20 May Leicester 129 24 August Aylesbury 66 20 May Lewes 130 28 August Woodhill 67 21 May Moorland 131 28 August Rye Hill 68 23 May Lindholme 132 31 August Stocken 69 23 May Lincoln 133 2 September Gartree 70 23 May Aylesbury 134 3 September Moorland 71 26 May Full Sutton 135 3 September Wealstun 72 27 May Channings Wood 136 4 September Hindley 73 30 May Holme House 137 5 September Lindholme 74 30 May Woodhill 138 5 September Stocken 75 31 May Nottingham 139 6 September Ranby 76 2 June Feltham 140 9 September Aylesbury 77 2 June Lincoln 141 10 September Haverigg 78 2 June Dovegate 142 21 September Everthorpe 79 2 June Woodhill 143 22 September Hewell 80 3 June Elmley 144 24 September Nottingham 81 7 June Rye Hill 145 24 September Lindholme 82 7 June Lindholme 146 24 September Lindholme 83 10 June Cookham Wood 147 24 September Liverpool 84 10 June Glen Parva 148 24 September Lindholme 85 12 June Swinfen Hall 149 25 September Dorchester 86 16 June Highdown 150 26 September Coldingley 87 17 June Northumberland 151 27 September Swinfen Hall 88 17 June Wolds 152 1 October Moorland 89 17 June Hindley 153 1 October Lowdham Grange 90 18 June Featherstone 154 4 October Featherstone 91 18 June Swinfen Hall 155 6 October Norwich 92 18 June Coldingley 156 8 October Lindholme 93 18 June Swinfen Hall 157 8 October Haverigg 94 19 June Leeds 158 9 October Leicester 95 22 June Lancaster Farms 159 10 October Hindley 96 22 June Isis 160 11 October Pentonville 97 25 June Lindholme 161 11 October Oakwood 98 26 June Ranby 162 12 October Stocken 99 26 June Wetherby 163 17 October Northumberland 100 27 June Isis 164 18 October Dover 101 30 June Wealstun 165 19 October Woodhill 102 6 July Cardiff 166 21 October Highdown 553W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 554W

they are going to live after release with access to the Count Date Establishment right interventions and with opportunities for meaningful 167 27 October Rochester resettlement. 168 30 October Long Lartin Taking into account the limited physical environment 169 2 November Maidstone of the mother and baby unit at HMP/YOI Holloway, 170 4 November Swaleside and the close proximity of HMP Bronzefield (21.5 171 5 November Altcourse miles), it was recommended that the 13 places at HMP 172 5 November Hewell Holloway should be closed. 173 6 November Doncaster The rationale to close HMP/YOI Holloway’s mother 174 8 November Long Lartin and baby unit was to reduce excess capacity within the 175 9 November Werrington mother and baby unit system without adversely affecting 176 9 November Altcourse distance from home for imprisoned mothers with babies 177 9 November Long Lartin and their ability to maintain family contact. There are 178 10 November Long Lartin now six mother and baby units nationally, including at 179 13 November Stafford Askham Grange. 180 13 November Long Lartin 181 17 November Highpoint The intention to close HMP/YOI Askham Grange 182 18 November Guys Marsh follows a steady reduction in the female prison population. 183 20 November Oakwood We will only close the prison once new resettlement 184 21 November Guys Marsh facilities are made available across the country, offering 185 22 November Stafford better options for the great majority of female offenders. 186 27 November Oakwood Prisons: Research 187 28 November Hull 188 29 November Onley 189 2 December Feltham Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 190 2 December Risley what levels of regulatory approval are required before 191 4 December Wormwood Scrubs academic research can be undertaken within the prison [188144] 192 5 December Oakwood estate; and if he will make a statement. 193 10 December Lowdham Grange 194 13 December Stocken Jeremy Wright: All research applications are reviewed 195 14 December Doncaster via the process described in the Prison Service Instruction 196 18 December Lincoln 13/2012, as set out on the Ministry of Justice website at: 197 18 December Doncaster http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/research-and-analysis/ 198 22 December Everthorpe noms 199 22 December Woodhill This process covers research projects commissioned by 200 23 December Winchester the Ministry of Justice and NOMS, and all external 201 28 December Erlestoke projects commissioned and funded by other bodies. 202 30 December Altcourse Approval must be granted before the research can 203 30 December Hull proceed. In all cases, consideration is given to: (i) the links to NOMS priorities; (ii) the potential demand on Prisons: Feltham resources; (iii) the overlap with other (current/recent) research projects; (iv) the appropriateness/robustness of the proposed methodology; (v) the data protection/security Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice implications; (vi) any relevant ethical dimensions; and what preliminary work his Department has undertaken (vii) the applicants’ research skills and/or experience. on plans for a new prison at Feltham announced in September 2013. [189216] Reoffenders

Jeremy Wright: The Ministry of Justice is carrying Rehman Chishti: To ask the Secretary of State for out an initial feasibility study and preliminary investigative Justice which five offences have recorded the highest work regarding a potential new prison in Feltham. number of convicted repeat offenders in the last year. [183554]

Prisons: Mother and Baby Units Jeremy Wright: The following list presents the top five offences of offenders convicted in 2012, who had Jenny Chapman: To ask the Secretary of State for been convicted of at least one previous offence of any Justice what assessment he has made of the effect of type. the decision to close two of the three mother and baby Top five offences of offenders convicted in 2012, who had units in prisons on the distance women are held from been convicted of at least one previous offence of any their families. [187531] type1 Offence description: Simon Hughes: The mother and baby unit at HMP/YOI Theft Act 1968 sec. 1—Stealing from shops and stalls ( shoplifting) Holloway has been closed in line with the recommendation Criminal Justice Act 1988 sec.39—Common assault and battery included in the Women’s Custodial Estate Review. The Road Traffic Act 1988 sec.5 (1 ) (a)—Driving or attempting to report was published on 25 October and recommended drive a mechanically propelled vehicle while having a breath, that the women’s prison estate be reconfigured to make blood or urine alcohol concentration in excess of the prescribed sure that women are held as close as possible to where limit 555W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 556W

Criminal Damage, £5,000 or less; Criminal Damage Act 1971; and will have to evidence in their bids how they would Magistrates Courts Act 1980; Allotments Act 1922 deliver gender-specific rehabilitation support specific to Possession of controlled class B drug Cannabis Misuse of the needs of female offenders. Successful bidders will be Drugs Act 1971, sec 5 (2) held to account to deliver these services in their contracts. Reoffending levels have been far too high for far too The Impact Assessment for the Offender Rehabilitation long, Government’s ‘Transforming Rehabilitation’ reforms Bill outlines our analysis of the projected impacts on for England and Wales are designed to change this. As overall breach rates for licence conditions, and can be part of these reforms, all adult offenders leaving custody found at the following link. This analysis does not will be subject to statutory supervision and all offenders specifically project breach or recall rates by gender: will be subject to a licence period (or a combination of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ licence and supervision) of at least 12 months in the attachment_data/file/208171/updated-rehabilitation-bill-impact- community. assessment.pdf

Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Secure Colleges Justice (1) how many offenders have been reconvicted within 12 months of breaching a Suspended Sentence Order in each year since the introduction of Suspended Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Sentence Orders; [185507] what estimate his Department has made of the annual (2) how many offenders have been sent to prison cost of a place in a secure college. [189205] after breaching a Suspended Sentence Order in each year since the introduction of Suspended Sentence Jeremy Wright: The Government’s vision for secure Orders. [185508] colleges was set out on 17 January 2014 in its response to the consultation paper “Transforming YouthCustody”. Jeremy Wright: Since 2010, offenders are more likely Secure colleges will place education at the heart of to go to prison and they go to prison for longer. custody, and equip young people with the skills they Suspended custodial sentences can be a useful option need to turn their lives around. for the courts in some cases and offenders serving these The current average cost of a place in youth custody sentences have a lower reoffending rate than offenders is around £100,000 per annum. Secure colleges will serving immediate, short custodial sentences. It is recorded achieve ongoing savings by operating at a significantly as a custodial sentence and the threat of a prison lower cost per place than the current average, while sentence can incentivise offenders to reform. allowing withdrawal from more expensive and inefficient Where an offender breaches a suspended sentence provision. order, either by failing to comply with any community The MOJ will not be able to publish estimates of the requirement or by committing a farther offence during annual cost per place until the operator competition for the period for which the sentence is suspended, there is the pathfinder secure college has been completed, to a presumption that the court will give effect to the avoid prejudicing the effectiveness of the competition. custodial sentence unless it considers that it would be unjust to do so in view of all the circumstances. Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice If the court does not give effect to custodial sentence, when the Government will publish the draft rules for it must impose more onerous community requirements, secure colleges. [189206] or extend the supervision or operational period of the order, or impose a fine (not exceeding £2,500), as Jeremy Wright: The Government’s vision for secure appropriate. colleges was set out on 17 January 2014 in its response The Ministry of Justice Court Proceedings Database to the consultation paper ‘Transforming YouthCustody’. holds information on defendants proceeded against, Rules establishing the operational framework for secure found guilty and sentenced for criminal offences in colleges will be developed to inform the operator England and Wales. This database holds information procurement process for the pathfinder secure college on offences provided by the statutes under which which will open in 2017. proceedings are brought but not all the specific circumstances of each case. Statistics are not collated Serco centrally on sentencing outcomes for breaches of suspended sentence orders. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Reoffenders: Females (1) how much will Serco have been paid for running community payback in London when the contract Jenny Chapman: To ask the Secretary of State for ends; [187896] Justice how many women will be recalled to custody (2) what the terms of the surrender by Serco of the under the Transforming Rehabilitation proposals. contract for running community payback in London [187530] were; [187897] Simon Hughes: Under our reforms we will expect new (3) what liability his Department has for termination providers of probation services to focus relentlessly on payments to Serco for their surrender of the contract making sure that all offenders, including women, do not for running community payback in London; [187898] return to custody and desist completely from reoffending. (4) how much his Department will have to pay to Providers will need to meet national standards set by Serco for their surrender of the contract for running the Secretary of State for the management of offenders community payback in London. [187894] 557W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 558W

Jeremy Wright: Serco’s contract to run Community Percentage of Payback in London will conclude at the end of this year On and Off Strength Headcount those declared to ensure a consistent approach as we roll out our vital probation reforms. This contract has and will deliver (a) Total White British, English, 3,129 69 Scottish and Welsh cashable savings in the region of £11 million to end (b) Total minority ethnic 951 21 October 2014. background (covers all non-white The expenditure year to date November 12 to November categories) 13 = £11,792 million. In respect of the final contract year, taxpayers will not pay for services that are not Travel delivered but the actual cost at the time of contract end is not yet known. Chris Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice The terms of the contract termination are still subject what the cost of travel within the UK was for his to negotiation. Department in each year since 2010; and how much of While the contract provides for termination events, this was spent on (a) hire cars, (b) helicopter hire, (c) on this occasion the negotiation is on the basis of a hotel accommodation and (d) subsistence. [176859] mutual agreement using early termination through a variation which will allow the authority to minimise any Mr Vara: Table 1 details the departmental spend on costs. travel and subsistence for the financial years 2010-11, 2011-12 and 2012-13. This information has been drawn The terms of the contract termination are still subject from the audited annual MOJ whole Department accounts. to negotiation. It is possible that some travel outside the UK may be Staff included. Spend on Travel and Subsistence has decreased each year compared to equivalent spend in 2008-09. Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Spend in this area reduced by 34.30% when 2012-13 is Justice what proportion of staff recruited to his compared to 2008-09. Department since 5 May 2010 identified their ethnicity Table 2, included for information purposes, shows as (a) white British and (b) from a minority ethnic the decreasing spend on subsistence across the Department background. [188079] from 2008-09 to 2013-14 (year to date figures). Departmental spend on hospitality has decreased year Simon Hughes: Staff within the Ministry of Justice on year since 2008-09 with 2012-13 spend reducing by (MOJ HQ), HM Courts and Tribunal Service (HMCTS), 93.23% from the 2008-09 level. National Offender Management Service (NOMS), Office Data is not available for the current year as it has not of the Public Guardian (OPG) and Legal Aid Agency yet been audited and so is not comparable. (LAA) can, but are not compelled to, declare their To break the information down further would incur a ethnicity. We do not hold complete data for staff ethnicity. disproportionate cost. The proportion of staff recruited since 5 May 2010 who have declared their ethnicity is set out in the £000 following table. The figures include on and off strength 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 staff and the percentage has been calculated against the Travel and 71,130 66,516 48,217 41,009 46,729 number of declarations. This is in line with the Ministry Subsistence of Justice external diversity publishing rules.

Financial year

2013-14 September Nac Level 6 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013

HMCTS

224227-Hospitality 52,997.73 -2,459.93 5,317.00 10,620.32 6,952.39 4,004.68 224228-External Lunches and Dinners 247.70 9.50 -42.55 156.00 2,544.00 260.00 224229-Refreshments for Interdepartmental 34,917.29 24,890.72 19,052.41 3,660.04 2,597.02 2,881.26 Meetings

MOJ HQ

224227-Hospitality 18,572.77 18,755.64 6,584.20 3,095.97 2,893.31 299.20 224228-External Lunches and Dinners 4,262.15 3,909.39 883.27 0.00 0.00 0.00 224229-Refreshments for Interdepartmental 96,946.33 28,699.71 3,096.00 247.68 0.00 0.00 Meetings

LAA

224227-Hospitality 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— 893.68 224228-External Lunches and Dinners 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— 0.00 224229-Refreshments for Interdepartmental 1— 1— 1— 1— 1— 0.00 Meetings 559W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 560W

Financial year 2013-14 September Nac Level 6 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 2013

OPG 224227-Hospitality ————— — 224228-External Lunches and Dinners ————— — 224229-Refreshments for Interdepartmental 21,708.25 32,433.69 2,349.93 1,646.88 572.04 0.00 Meetings

Totals 224227-Hospitality 71,570.50 16295.71 11901.2 13716.29 9845.7 5,197.56 224228-External Lunches and Dinners 4,509.85 3918.89 840.72 156 2544 260.00 224229-Refreshments for Interdepartmental 153,571.87 86024.12 24498.34 5554.6 3169.06 2,881.26 Meetings 229,652.22 106,238.72 37,240.26 19,426.89 15,558.76 8,338.82 1 ALB Status.

Written Questions The Government is committed to providing the Procedure Committee with information relating to written Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for PQ performance on a sessional basis and will provide Justice (1) how many parliamentary questions for answer full information relating to the 2013-14 session to the on a named day were answered by his Department (a) Committee at the end of the current session. on the named day, (b) after the named day with prior notification to the hon. Member concerned and (c) after the named day without prior notification to the hon. Member concerned between 1 November 2013 BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS and 31 January 2014; [187474] Local Enterprise Partnerships (2) how many parliamentary questions for written answer on a named day answered by his Department after the named day without prior notification to the Caroline Dinenage: To ask the Secretary of State for relevant hon. Member concerned between 1 November Business, Innovation and Skills which local enterprise 2013 and 31 January 2014 were answered (a) one, (b) partnerships submitted final European Structural and twotofive,(c) six to 10, (d) 11 to 20 and (e) 21 or Investment Fund strategies to his Department by the more days after the named day; [187475] end of January 2014. [188472] (3) what the average length of time was for his Michael Fallon: All 39 Local enterprise partnerships Department to provide an answer to parliamentary (LEPs) have submitted their final European Structural questions for answer on a named day that were answered and Investment Fund strategies. Two LEPs submitted after the named day without prior notification to the their plans after January 2014—Lancashire and North hon. Member concerned between 1 November 2013 East. and 31 January 2014; [187476] (4) how many (a) ordinary written questions and (b) questions for answer on a named day were received by his Department between 1 November 2013 and WORK AND PENSIONS 31 January 2014. [187477] Access to Work Programme Mr Vara: Between 1 November 2013 and 31 January 2014, 738 parliamentary questions were tabled to the Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Secretary of State for Ministry of Justice, of which 430 were named day Work and Pensions what representations he has questions. 60 named day questions were answered on received on changes to guidance for the Access to Work time over this period. This is in the context of a significant scheme on the employment of support workers for increase in the number of named day questions tabled disabled people where they are needed on a full-time to the Department this session, when compared to basis. [188696] previous sessions. The MOJ receives a high volume of parliamentary Mike Penning: Access to Work guidance is not specific questions on a wide range of subjects. These can involve about the employment of support workers who are compiling detailed statistical information. We are committed needed full-time. It is an employer’s responsibility to to answering PQs in a way that provides the necessary determine a worker’s employment status, depending on context for Members. the terms and conditions of the working relationship. It would incur disproportionate costs to provide a Under Access to Work guidance, the expectation is figure for the number of notification letters issued to that awards for support workers needed for more than Members, and a breakdown of when each named day 30 hours per week will be assessed against a reasonable question was answered, since this would require a manual annual salary for that service. This is intended to provide trawl of each individual parliamentary question response. value for money for the taxpayer. 561W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 562W

We have received a variety of correspondence from Esther McVey: We are unable to show a breakdown individuals and organisations about how this guidance of costs specifically for appeals against ESA benefit is being applied. Officials have responded promptly in sanctions. writing and through face-to-face meetings to address the issues raised. Employment Schemes: Disability

Disability Living Allowance Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many (a) referrals, (b) starts and (b) job outcomes have been made for Work Choice Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Work programme participants serviced by Remploy through and Pensions if he will make the mobility component grant-in-aid funded services in (i) 2010-11, (ii) 2011-12 of the disability living allowance available to children and (iii) 2012-13. [189373] with life-limiting conditions under the age of three years old who are technology or ventilator-dependent. Esther McVey: The numbers of Work Choice programme [189775] participants supported by Remploy through grant in aid-funded services in (i) 2010-11, (ii) 2011-12 and (iii) Mike Penning: There are no plans to extend payment 2012-13 are shown in the following table: of the mobility component of disability living allowance to disabled children with life-limiting conditions under 2010-11 2011-12 2012-13 the age of three. The care component of disability living allowance (up to £79.15 per week) is available to severely Referrals 19,704 21,048 21,473 disabled children from the age of three months and Starts 19,306 17,938 17,021 additional support for parents of disabled people is Job outcomes 9,760 6,401 8,537 available from a range of sources, including the disability Note: The Work Choice programme commenced in October 2010. Numbers for premiums and the additional elements in tax credits. 2010-11 include Workstep and the Work Choice programme. Source: Employment and Support Allowance Remploy Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for Pensions what proportion of Jobcentre Plus offices had Work and Pensions what guidance his Department has a dedicated Disability Employment Adviser in the issued to tribunals on the period of time between a latest period for which figures are available. [189375] tribunal’s decision and the forwarding of their Statement of Reasons to the jobcentre. [188678] Esther McVey: All Jobcentres have access to a Disability Employment Adviser (DEA). Mr Vara: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the Equality Ministry of Justice. The First-tier Tribunal—Social Security and Child Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Support (SSCS), administered by HM Courts and Tribunals Pensions how many publications his Department has Service (HMCTS), hears appeals against Department produced for the purposes of monitoring or promoting for Work and Pensions’ (DWP) decisions on a range of staff equality and diversity in each of the last five years; benefits and credits. and what the cost of producing such publications was When an SSCS tribunal panel determines the outcome in each such year. [188891] of an appeal, it is known as a tribunal decision. In oral cases the Tribunal will generally give its decision at the Mike Penning: The Department is committed to end of the hearing, both orally and in a typed decision providing equality of opportunity for all staff and the notice. In cases where a party is not present or where the customers we support. We monitor and promote staff appeal is decided on the papers the Tribunal issues the equality and diversity to ensure that genuine consideration written decision to the appellant, the appellant’s is given to the likely and actual effects of our policies, representative, if they have one, and to the DWP (or processes and services on our employees and customers, other agency which made the original decision). HMCTS’ and to ensure decisions are made through evidence-based guidance to staff of the Tribunal is that the decision policy making. notice should be issued within two days of the hearing. Over the last five years we have produced the following In practice it is usually issued on the day of the hearing. publications: A Statement of Reasons is a record of the full facts The Department’s Equality Scheme progress report and reasons for the Tribunal’s decision written by the in September 2010: tribunal judge who heard the appeal. https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department- It is a formal document that must be requested by for-work-pensions/about/equality-and-diversity either party to the proceedings before they can apply for As part of fulfilling our obligations under the Public permission to appeal against the Tribunal’s decision on Sector Equality Duty, equality information reports in: a point of law. January 2012: Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ Work and Pensions what the total cost incurred by his attachment_data/file/141742/equality-info-report-2011.pdf Department was in appeals against benefit sanctions July 2012: imposed on claimants of employment and support https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ allowance in each year since 2010. [189430] attachment_data/file/140057/equality-info-report-2012.pdf 563W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 564W

July 2013: Pensioners: Social Security Benefits https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/212104/equality-info-report-2013.pdf Mr Simon Burns: To ask the Secretary of State for departmental objectives in April 2012: Work and Pensions what steps he is taking to help https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department- older people in Chelmsford constituency claim the for-work-pensions/about/equality-and-diversity#equality- benefits to which they are entitled. [189434] objectives Information on the costs of producing these publications Steve Webb: We are committed to ensuring that older is not held centrally and could be obtained only at people receive the support they are entitled to. I regularly disproportionate cost. engage with a wide range of stakeholders and customer representative groups on a range of issues including access to pensioner benefits. Jobseeker’s Allowance The Department writes to people, at the address held on record, up to four months before they reach state Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for pension age inviting them to claim their state pension. Work and Pensions what the average cost is incurred by An information leaflet about the state pension is enclosed his Department over an appeal against a decision to with that letter; it provides details of how to claim sanction a claimant’s jobseeker’s allowance; and what pension credit. the total cost to deal with all such appeals has been in Customers can claim pension credit by telephone, each year since 2010. [189442] removing the need to complete lengthy application forms; they can also claim housing benefit at the same time, Esther McVey: The following table shows the total and are advised of pension credit when they claim their cost incurred by the Department for all types of jobseeker’s state pension. allowance (JSA) Appeals since 2010. 2010-11 data is DWP has also introduced a web-based pension credit not available in the same format and is not comparable toolkit at: to future years. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pension-credit- toolkit Financial year 2011-12 2012-13 Its purpose is to provide customer representative JSA Appeal Costs £5.67 million £5.10 million organisations with all the information needed in order JSA Appeal Unit Cost £130.27 £119.04 to talk to pensioners about pension credit. In partnership Labour Market Sanction £4.15 million £5.3 million with Age UK, local authorities and other groups, a Appeal Costs structured campaign was undertaken to create awareness Labour Market Sanction £65.49 £71.67 of the toolkit amongst those who support our customers. Appeal Unit Cost In the long term, our aim is to reduce complexity in Data Source: The Departmental Activity Based Models 2010-11, 2011-12 and the system. That is why we are reforming the state 2012-13 pension through the current Pensions Bill, setting it above the basic level of means-tested support and giving The costs are extracted at full cost to DWP, they greater prominence to the contributory pension. include apportioned costs for Shared Services and Corporate activities e.g. IT, HR and Finance. They Personal Independence Payment include staff and non-staff costs. The costs exclude any arm’s length bodies or non departmental public bodies. Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for JSA Appeals are split into JSA Appeals and Labour Work and Pensions what proportion of new claims for Market Appeals. JSA Appeals are appeals against the personal independence payment involve a face-to-face entitlement to JSA. Labour Market Sanction Appeals consultation assessment. [188702] are appeals against sanctions for not fulfilling Labour Market related conditions e.g. failing to attend training. Mike Penning: The information is not available and They also include ″leaving job voluntarily″ cases. will not form part of the future published official statistics.

Charles Hendry: To ask the Secretary of State for Minimum Wage Work and Pensions what the mean average time taken to process an application for a personal independence Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for payment from receipt of application to determination Work and Pensions what plans his Department has to is; and what the longest time taken to determine any undertake an impact assessment on the effects on levels such application is. [189387] of child poverty of a rise in the national minimum wage to (a) £7.35, (b) £7.85, (c) £8.35 and (d) £8.85 Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work an hour. [189332] and Pensions (1) how many and what proportion of decided personal independence payments claims, which Esther McVey: The Department for Work and Pensions were not made under the special rules for terminally ill currently has no plans to undertake such an assessment. people, have been (a) successful and (b) unsuccessful, This Government has made good progress in tackling by claimants resident in (i) Washington and the root causes of child poverty.Employment has increased Sunderland West constituency, (ii) the North East and by 1.3 million since 2010 and the number of children (iii) England in each month for which records are under 16 in workless households has fallen by 274,000. available; [188924] 565W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 566W

(2) how many personal independence payments claims, forecast of earnings growth. These are used together to not made under the special rules for terminally ill project the level of earnings for 2014-15. people, have been made by residents of (a) Washington and Sunderland West constituency, (b) the North East and (c) England in each month for which records are State Retirement Pensions: Females available. [188925] Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Penning: Personal Independence Payment (PIP) Work and Pensions what recent representations he has started from April 2013 and although limited data has received on the situation of those women born between started to feed through, we need to wait until the 1951 and 1953 who will receive a smaller weekly state Department has quality assured, meaningful figures for pension income than a man with the same date of birth publication. The Department is working to guidelines from 2016; if he will make it his policy to guarantee set by the UK Statistics Authority to ensure we are able that no women born between 1951 and 1953 with an to publish statistics that meet high quality standards at equivalent number of qualifying years receive a smaller the earliest opportunity. We intend to publish official state pension income on a weekly basis than as a man statistics on PIP from spring 2014 in line with our with the same date of birth commencing in 2016; and if publication strategy: he will make a statement. [188898] https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ attachment_data/file/284330/ Steve Webb: The Department receives correspondence pip_stats_release_strategy_feb14.pdf from members of public on a range of issues, including An ad-hoc release of PIP information was published this one. The Department’s analysis shows that 90% of on 11 February 2014. the women in the April 1951 to April 1953 birth cohort will receive more in state pension and other benefits Retirement: Females over the course of their life than if they were to draw a single-tier pension at age 65. This is because, due to unequal state pension ages, the women in this cohort Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for can draw a state pension between two and four years Work and Pensions what steps he is taking to help before a man born the same day as them. women adversely affected by the increase in retirement age to 66 by 2020. [188624] Qualification for the single-tier pension will be dependent on reaching state pension age after the new system is Steve Webb: The Pensions Act 2011 legislated for the introduced, on 6 April 2016. Men and women reaching state pension age for men and women to equalise by state pension age before the new system is introduced November 2018, and rise to 66 by October 2020. These will receive a state pension based on the current system, changes to state pension age are necessary as people are and in line with the qualifying conditions of the current living longer and healthier lives, on average. system. The Government is working with business to encourage employers to adopt good practice that supports the Telephone Services ongoing health and employment of an ageing work force so they can work up to rising pension ages. The Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Government is achieving this through the Age Positive and Pensions whether his Department’s announcement initiative and, from later in 2014, the Health and Work on 27 January 2014, that it will introduce alternative Service. As part of this scheme, an annual tax exemption 0345 telephone numbers for its major call lines from of £500 will be introduced for medical treatments March 2014, will include such a number for the (a) recommended by the service. The Government have Child Support Agency and (b) Child Maintenance also announced it is extending the ’right to request Service from that date. [188632] flexible working’ to all workers. Steve Webb: The announcement made on the 27 January For those who are out of work, the Government, on the GOV.UK website at: through universal credit, the Work programme and https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dwp-helps-cut- Jobcentre Plus flexibilities, is reforming the welfare telephone-call-costs-from-march-2014 system to improve incentives and provide more effective support for older people. regarding the introduction of alternative 0345 telephone numbers for the Department’s major call lines from March 2014, does include the Child Support Agency Social Security Benefits and Child Maintenance Service.

Sarah Teather: To ask the Secretary of State for Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions with reference to section 96 of the and Pensions in respect of each of the telephone lines Welfare Reform Act 2012, what information he used to run by the Child Support Agency in 2012-13, what the determine estimated average earnings when setting the total call minutes (a) connected, (b) speaking to an rates for the Household Benefit Cap for 2014-15. adviser and (c) on hold awaiting an adviser for each [188860] telephone line run by the Child Support Agency was in 2012-13. [188712] Esther McVey: The earnings data used to calculate estimated average earnings for the review of the level of Steve Webb: The total call minutes for each of the the benefit cap for 2014-15 are the Family Resources telephone lines operated by the Child Support Agency, Survey (published in June 2013) and the most recent for December 2012 to December 2013, are provided in (November 2013) Office for Budget Responsibility economic the following table: 567W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 568W

Steve Webb: Winter fuel payments are targeted at (a) (b) Speaking to an (c) Awaiting an Connected adviser adviser older people because they are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cold weather-the elderly experience the 1993 Scheme 5,049,336 3,952,294 823,939 greatest increase in deaths each winter. They provide an 2003 Scheme 29,291,987 19,565,593 1,390,568 assurance that older people can keep warm during the Note: colder winter months because they know they will When clients call they will be prompted by an automated system to enter the numeric part of their national insurance number, their date of birth and, if they receive significant help with their bills. have multiple cases, a child’s date of birth for the case they are calling about. Although, there are no current plans to extend the This time is included within (a) the total connected time but not in (b) speaking to an adviser, or (c) awaiting an adviser. coverage of winter fuel payments we do recognise that disabled people of all ages can face extra costs due to Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work their impairment. However, some will face higher heating and Pensions what the average cost per minute is to costs whereas others, for example, will have to spend telephone the Child Support Agency or Child Maintenance more on food because of special dietary requirements, Service from a (a) landline and (b) mobile telephone. or face higher than normal clothing replacement and [188715] laundry costs. General financial provision is currently made for people’s different extra costs through disability Steve Webb: The cost of calling the Child Support living allowance (DLA) and personal independence Agency or Child Maintenance Service will depend on payment (PIP). the phone service provider, and also whether the call is The contribution DLA provides can be substantial being made from a landline or mobile. Where charges and it is flexible-recipients can choose to spend it on apply, the approximate cost of a call to any 0845 number additional heating. That choice continues with PIP. can vary from 1p to 10.5p per minute from a landline, and from 12p to 41p per minute from a mobile. Work Programme

Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State and Pensions if he will take steps to introduce an 080 for Work and Pensions (1) if he will take steps to ensure Freephone number for callers to the Child Support that people on the Work Programme who miss Agency and Child Maintenance Service from (a) appointments to attend job interviews are not penalised; landlines and (b) mobile telephones. [188719] [189392]

Steve Webb: At present, the Child Support Agency (2) for what reasons people on the Work Programme and Child Maintenance Service have no plans to introduce are recorded as having missed appointment when the 080 numbers for their inquiry lines but will be introducing reason for missing the appointment is to attend a job 0345 telephone numbers from March 2014. interview. [189393]

Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Esther McVey: If a Work programme participant and Pensions what the total call minutes connected to contacts their provider because they are unable to attend the Child Maintenance Service has been since an appointment prior to it taking place, for example December 2012; and what the average time (a) because of a job interview, the provider has flexibility to speaking to an adviser and (b) waiting before speaking rearrange that appointment. to an adviser has been in that time. [188720] When a provider mandates a participant to attend an appointment and they fail to attend without giving Steve Webb: Information on the 2012 Scheme reason, the provider must raise a compliance doubt. administered by the Child Maintenance Service is currently available up to the end of September 2013. Experimental Statistics on the 2012 Scheme covering the period of August to September 2013 were published on 25 November WOMEN AND EQUALITIES 2013, and are available at: Gender Recognition https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/ad-hoc-statistical- analysis-2013-quarter-4 Hugh Bayley: To ask the Minister for Women and From December 2012 to September 2013 the total Equalities what (a) legislative and (b) non-legislative call minutes connected to the Child Maintenance Service measures the Government has introduced to promote was 254,820. equal opportunities for transgender people in the UK During the same period, the average time spent speaking since May 2010. [188092] to an adviser was 12 minutes and 2 seconds with an average wait of 18 seconds before speaking to an adviser. Mrs Grant: The Government is strongly committed to advancing equality for transgender people. We have Winter Fuel Payments one of the world’s strongest legislative frameworks to prevent and tackle discrimination on the grounds of Sir Edward Garnier: To ask the Secretary of State for gender and gender reassignment, among other protected Work and Pensions what recent discussions he has had characteristics. on extending the winter fuel payment to people (a) on A number of legislative measures have been introduced the higher rate of disability living allowance for care or since May 2010 which promote equal opportunities for mobility and (b) the enhanced rate of personal transgender people. These include: independence payment; and if he will make a statement. the Equality Act 2010, which provides explicit protection from [188674] discrimination for transsexual people; and 569W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 570W

protection for the wider transgender community where discrimination is based on perception; £000 the Gender Recognition (Approved Countries and Territories) 2009-10 316 Order 2011—the Gender Recognition Act 2004 allows people 2010-11 317 who have had a legal gender change in certain countries and territories to apply for a UK Gender Recognition Certificate 2011-12 435 under a simplified process. This order updates and expands the 2012-13 139 list of countries and territories; the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Rehabilitation of Offenders This expenditure supported intramural work. Act 2012, which amended the Criminal Justice Act 2003 to provide for sentences to be aggravated for any offence motivated Autism by hostility towards the victim on the grounds of being transgender, and for a 30-year starting point for murders motivated by hostility towards the victim on the ground of being transgender; and Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013, which will enable Health what guidance his Department has issued on couples to remain married where one partner seeks a legal the management of autism spectrum disorders within gender change where both parties wish to remain married. joint strategic needs assessments. [188660] “Advancing Transgender Equality: A Plan for Action”, the first action plan for transgender equality, was published Norman Lamb: The 2010 Adult Autism Strategy for in December 2011. It includes a range of largely non- England Fulfilling and Rewarding Lives and its subsequent legislative measures to improve the lives of transgender statutory guidance both promote Joint Strategic Needs people in a number of areas of public policy, including Assessments (JSNAs), as the vehicle for health and hate crime, health, education and employment. A report social care services to plan for the needs of people with on progress on delivering the commitments in this action autism in their area. plan will be published in due course. As part of the review of the strategy, last summer all 152 local authority areas took part in the second national self-assessment exercise on progress made in implementing HEALTH the strategy. This exercise included a question on whether autism was included in the local JSNA. The Public Abortion Health England Learning Disabilities Observatory will shortly publish a full report of the information received John Glen: To ask the Secretary of State for Health from across the country. Local responses should be what steps his Department takes to identify illegal discussed by Health and Wellbeing Boards to support abortion referrals; whether the competence for such autism work and as evidence for local planning and scrutiny rests with the Chief Medical Officer alone; and JSNAs. if he will make a statement. [188484] Jane Ellison: Abortion is only legal if it is carried out Cancer within the terms of the Abortion Act 1967. This requires two doctors to form an opinion in good faith that one Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for of the grounds for abortion set out in the Act is met. Health what guidance his Department has issued on The Chief Medical Officer has written to doctors involved diagnosis and treatment of patients found to have with abortion procedures to remind them about the cancer of unknown primary foundation. [188670] need to comply with the Act, and the Department intends to produce further guidance to assist doctors Jane Ellison: In July 2010, the National Institute for with compliance with the Abortion Act. Health and Care Excellence published the clinical guideline, Notifications of all abortions performed are submitted “Metastatic malignant disease of unknown primary to the Chief Medical Officer. Significant discrepancies origin: Diagnosis and management of metastatic malignant are pursued with the practitioner who submitted the disease of unknown primary origin”. This sets out best notification. practice for clinicians on the diagnosis, treatment, care Any allegations concerning abortions not performed and support of patients whose primary site of cancer under the terms of the Act should be referred to the police. growth cannot be established. Animal Experiments Cholesterol Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how much funding his Department has provided Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health to (a) research councils funding animal research and (1) what mechanisms will be in place in primary care to (b) development of non-animal experimentation methods measure and treat high cholesterol in patients at high in each of the last five years. [188642] risk of premature death from heart disease after April Dr Poulter: The Department’s National Institute for 2014; [188657] Health Research focuses on clinical and health services (2) whether a NHS Atlas of Variation for research. It does not therefore fund research using Cardiovascular Disease will be published in 2014; animals, provide funding to research councils for such [188658] research, or fund the development of scientific methods (3) if he will request that NHS England installs to replace the use of animals. universal systems to measure differences in the management Estimated expenditure by the Health Protection Agency of cholesterol in primary care in different clinical on work to replace, refine or reduce the use of animals commissioning groups in England in April 2014. in scientific procedures is shown in the following table: [188659] 571W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 572W

Jane Ellison: The Government has an ambitious CPAG makes recommendations to the Directly programme to improve public health through strengthening Commissioned Services Committee on the commissioning local action, behavioural changes and promoting healthy of services where there could be a substantial change in choices, and changing the environment to support healthier service provision. lives. CPAG does not have a role in giving advice for The Department’s Mandate for NHS England sets Individual Funding Requests or in relation to the Cancer out the improvements in cardiovascular health and Drugs Fund. Therefore, the minutes will not contain health care outcomes that the national health service is such information. expected to deliver, and the priorities for improvement are reflected in both the NHS and Public Health Outcomes Frameworks. This includes supporting earlier diagnosis Dementia of illness by tackling issues such as high blood pressure and high cholesterol, which are both risk factors for Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for coronary heart disease. Health which local authorities have made dementia a We and NHS England expect clinicians in primary public health priority. [188397] care to use their professional judgment to treat their patients according to best practice guidelines, including Norman Lamb: Information on which local authorities monitoring and treating high cholesterol in patients at have made dementia a public health priority is not held high risk of premature death from heart disease. centrally. Public Health England does not intend to publish an Local authorities are involved in both local Dementia Atlas of Variation for Cardiovascular Disease during Action Alliances and dementia-friendly communities 2014. and we encourage this involvement. Information about Dementia Action Alliances and NHS England has no plans to introduce universal those communities working towards becoming dementia- systems to measure differences in the management of friendly was made available as part of our State of the cholesterol in primary care in different clinical Nation report published in November 2013. A copy of commissioning groups (CCGs) in England in April the report has been placed in the Library. 2014. However, NHS England will use clinical data extracted from general practitioner practice systems to ensure continued transparency about quality and outcomes in Electronic Cigarettes relation to the monitoring of cholesterol. This will enable NHS England’s commissioning teams, CCGs David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for and the Care Quality Commission to take this information Health what discussions his Department has had with into account in reaching more rounded judgments about EU institutions on maintaining free consumer access to the quality of care provided by general practice. electronic cigarettes without a prescription. [188862] There are no specific indicators in the 2014-15 CCG Jane Ellison: E-cigarettes that do not make a medical Outcome Indicator Set (OIS) directly related to cholesterol. claim will not require a medicines licence and will be However, two wider indicators will include cholesterol available as consumer products without a prescription. checks within them. These are: Those that do make a medicinal claim and are licensed people with severe mental illness who have received a set of under medicines regulation can be sold or supplied to physical checks; and reduce the harm of smoking to smokers and those people with diabetes who have received nine care processes. around them-in accordance with National Institute for There are also a number of wider coronary heart Health and Care Excellence guidelines. disease related indicators included in the OIS.

Equality Clinical Priorities Advisory Group Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many publications his Department has produced Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Health for the purposes of monitoring or promoting staff if he will publish the minutes all advice given to NHS equality and diversity in each of the last five years; and England by the Clinical Priorities Advisory Group on what the cost of producing such publications was in (a) individual funding requests for the treatment of each such year. [188882] patients with stereotactic ablative radiotherapy and (b) funding requests for the prescription of cancer drugs Dr Poulter: The Department publishes an annual not approved by the National Institute for Care Public Sector Equality Duty Workforce Profile report—each Excellence. [188511] January. It is not possible to distinguish costs on the publication of this report, as it is produced in-house by Norman Lamb: At its January 2014 meeting, the the Human Resources team. The report is published in Directly Commissioned Services Committee (an NHS electronic version with consideration given to accessibility, England Board Committee) agreed the Clinical Priorities so no publication costs are involved. Advisory Group (CPAG) agenda and minutes would be The promotion of equality and diversity within the published on the NHS England website once the Department generally uses the Department’s intranet recommendations are made. to communicate messages and best practice approaches. 573W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 574W

The Department occasionally holds awareness sessions Over the last 12 months the Department has received to promote aspects of equality and diversity, which can representations from two members of the public, Shine, involve material design and printing. It would incur Professor Sir Nicholas Wald, the British Pregnancy disproportionate costs to establish the costs of such Advice Service and the Flour Fortification Initiative activities from other duties in the Department’s Human calling for mandatory fortification of flour with folic Resources team. acid.

Fertility: Males General Practitioners

Simon Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what research his Department has funded on Health how many GP referrals have included a referral male fertility and sperm counts in the last 10 years; and to a swimming pool or gym in each of the last 10 years if he will publish the findings of such research. [188628] for which figures are available. [189514]

Dr Poulter: In the last 10 years, the Department has Dr Poulter: The requested information is not collected funded no specific research on male fertility and sperm centrally. counts from central research and development budgets. The Public Health England (PHE) Centre for Radiation, General Practitioners: Leeds Chemicals and Environmental Hazards (CRCE) does not have any specific research ongoing in respect of Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health male sperm counts affecting fertility. PHE/CRCE does what the average waiting time is for a GP appointment though have a small experimental research programme in Leeds. [188699] investigating whether the genetic material carried by sperm can be affected by environmental factors including chemicals. In conjunction with the Medical Research Dr Poulter: The information requested is not collected Council, PHE/CRCE has published work in the journal centrally. Epigenetics in 2012 showing that smoking can affect the composition of genetic material in sperm. The effect, if Genito-urinary Medicine any, of this on fertility or the developing embryo was not determined. This work is continuing in PHE/CRCE. Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he has made of the quality Flour: Folic Acid and availability of sexual health and HIV testing and prevention services in England; and if he will make a Mrs Hodgson: To ask the Secretary of State for statement. [188463] Health (1) what recent discussions his Department has had with its international counterparts on the Jane Ellison: The Department has set out its ambitions mandatory fortification of flour with folic acid; to improve sexual health and wellbeing in “A Framework [188706] for Sexual Health Improvement”, which was published (2) what recent discussions his Department has had in March 2013. The framework highlights the importance with UK and European food producers and importers of locally commissioned prevention services and the on the mandatory fortification of flour with folic acid; need to increase HIV testing to reduce undiagnosed and [188708] late diagnosis of HIV.It is for local authorities to decide (3) when he expects to reach a decision on the on the provision of local sexual health prevention services. mandatory fortification of flour with folic acid; There are three sexual health indicators (including chlamydia diagnoses and late diagnosis of HIV) in the [188709] Public Health Outcomes Framework to assess outcomes (4) what assessment he has made of the potential on sexual health. The Department has removed the ban health costs and benefits of the mandatory fortification on the sale of HIV self-testing kits with effect from 6 of flour with folic acid; [188710] April 2014. (5) what recent representations he has received on Sexual health and HIV testing services are provided the mandatory fortification of flour with folic acid. through a variety of settings and by a variety of providers [188711] including primary care, community and outreach services, and hospital and specialist genitourinary medicine (GUM) Jane Ellison: The Department has not had any recent services. Public Health England (PHE) collects data on discussions with international counterparts or United all sexually transmitted infection (STI) and HIV diagnoses Kingdom and European food producers and importers and services at all GUM clinics in England, and this is on the mandatory fortification of flour with folic acid. published in STI and HIV reports on the PHE website The case for mandatory fortification of flour with at: folic acid is currently being considered. A decision will www.hpa.org.uk/Topics/InfectiousDiseases/InfectionsAZ/ be made in the light of the latest evidence and when the HiyAndSTIs/ most up to date data are available. Table 1 provides the number, of sexual health screens The health costs and benefits of mandatory fortification provided at GUM clinics in England from 2009-12. of flour with folic acid will be considered in coming to a Table 2 provides data on the uptake of HIV testing decision on whether or not to proceed with this policy. among all eligible STI episodes in England from 2009-12. 575W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 576W

Table 1: Number of sexual health screens1 in England, by gender and sexual risk, 2009-12 Number of sexual health screens1 Gender 2009 2010 2011 2012

Male 489,044 524,621 561,119 590,323 Of which: MSM 52,708 63,371 85,061 98,922

Female 542,306 580,047 633,851 665,961 Of which: WSW 1,693 1,772 8,666 8,764

Total 1,032,225 1,105,670 1,195,156 1,256,402 1 A sexual health screen consists of a test for: (i) chlamydia and gonorrhoea, or (ii) chlamydia, gonorrhoea and syphilis, or (iii) chlamydia, gonorrhoea, syphilis and HIV. Notes: 1. Data are sourced from the Genitourinary Medicine Clinic Activity Data-set (GUMCADv2). 2. Data presented follow calendar years (January-December), not financial years (April-March). 3. Data represent sexual health, screens among people accessing services located in England who are also residents in England ie data excludes people accessing services located in England who are residents in Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or abroad. 4. Data on sexual health screens reported with an unknown gender may be included in the gender total. 5. Data on sexual health screens reported with an unknown sexual risk may be included in the male and female totals. 6. Men who have sex with men (MSM) and women who have sex with women (WSW) reflect the sexual risk reported at the date of the patient attendance (ie recent exposure). 7. MSM includes men who reported being homosexual or bisexual. WSW includes women who reported being homosexual only. 8. Increases in sexual health screens by sexual risk may be the result of improved reporting of sexual orientation.

Table 2: HIV test uptake in England, by gender and sexual risk, 2009-12 Eligible new GUM episodes Offered Gender 2009 2010 2011 2012 2009 2010 2011 2012

Male 629,296 667,715 702,929 717,978 495,688 532,631 563,633 586,780 Of which: Heterosexual 461,514 513,877 550,763 561,718 372,866 417,199 447,680 465,945 Of which: MSM 82,553 92,784 110,161 120,821 58,599 70,112 86,388 96,868

Female 705,902 761,810 825,199 849,885 544,112 583,425 627,156 651,453 Of which: Heterosexual 600,802 684,846 757,241 793,997 468,589 531,256 585,835 616,779 Of which: WSW 4,298 5,039 9,740 9,740 3,462 4,210 8,398 8,673

Total 1,336,421 1,430,744 1,528,383 1,568,009 1,040,653 1,116,945 1,190,958 1,238,337

Tested Uptake (percentage) Gender 2009 2010 2011 2012 2009 2010 2011 2012

Male 398,445 433,844 471,246 497,182 80 81 84 85 Of which: Heterosexual 291,932 330,938 365,460 385,474 78 79 82 83 Of which: MSM 52,701 64,016 80,083 90,698 90 91 93 94

Female 407,375 438,386 484,272 506,559 75 75 77 78 Of which: Heterosexual 346,696 396,135 449,988 478,346 74 75 77 78 Of which: WSW 2,817 3,414 6,823 6,870 81 81 81 79 577W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 578W

Tested Uptake (percentage) Gender 2009 2010 2011 2012 2009 2010 2011 2012

Total 806,498 873,050 955,660 1,003,825 77 78 80 81 Notes: 1. Data are sourced from the Genitourinary Medicine Clinic Activity Data-set (GUMCADv2). 2. Data presented follow calendar years (January-December) not financial years (April-March). 3. HIV test uptake data represent the number of HIV tests reported and not the number of people tested for HIV. 4. Data represent HIV tests among people accessing services located in England who are also residents in England ie data excludes people accessing services located in England who are residents in Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or abroad. 5. ’Eligible new GUM episodes’ exclude episodes by known HIV positive patients and episodes where a HIV test was not appropriate. 6. Increases in HIV test uptake may be the result of improved reporting of residence data. 7. Data reported with an unknown gender may be included in gender totals. 8. Age group category ’<15’ includes those aged 13-14 only. 9. Age group category ’other’ includes those aged 0-12 and those with an unknown age. 10. Age group category ’65+’ includes those aged 65-99 only. 11. MSM and WSW reflect the sexual risk reported over a patient’s entire clinic attendance history ie ’ever’ exposure. 12. MSM includes men who reported being homosexual or bisexual. WSW includes women who reported being homosexual only. 13. Increases in STI numbers by sexual risk may be the result of improved reporting of sexual orientation.

Gynaecology 2015-16 has now been published and it does not include information on funding for HIV social care. However, Lyn Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Health local authorities’ responsibilities for the social care needs for what reason hospital trusts use a pain score of 1 to of people with HIV are unchanged and they continue to 5 for hysteroscopy procedure rather than 1 to 10. receive funding for this as part of their formula grant. [188697] Alec Shelbrooke: To ask the Secretary of State for Norman Lamb: Health professionals are responsible Health what steps his Department is taking to for monitoring pain levels during and after a hysteroscopy implement a national screening programme for HIV. procedure. [188627] There is no standard national pain scoring system but there are a number of different pain assessment Jane Ellison: Recommendations for HIV screening tools available to health professionals. This means that and testing are made by a number of bodies including methodology may vary between providers. Public Health England, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE), the United Kingdom Hepatitis Chief Medical Officer’s Expert Advisory Group on AIDS , the UK National Screening Committee (UKNSC), Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State and professional organisations such as the British HIV for Health what process NHS England uses to identify Association and the British Association for Sexual Health the funds required to treat hepatitis C as set out in the and HIV. manual for prescribed specialised services in 2013-14. At present there is a national antenatal screening [188689] programme which offers screening to all pregnant women. NICE guidelines for most at risk groups (men who have Jane Ellison: Allocations for NHS England to sex with men and black African communities) recommend commission hepatitis C services were established by large scale HIV testing in primary and secondary care estimating the service costs and drug costs of treating under certain circumstances, such as in areas of higher patients with hepatitis C at expert centres. NHS England prevalence. In addition, HIV testing is offered to all uses a number of processes to continue refining allocations attendees of genitourinary medicine clinics (GUM) clinics. for the commissioning of specialised services such as hepatitis C treatments, and to ensure that it makes the The current approach is made up of a range of most efficient and effective use of its budget, including testing strategies combined with promotion through the development of national commissioning policies outreach to communities most at-risk of HIV infection. and advice from Clinical Reference Groups supported Around 2 million HIV tests are undertaken annually by health technology appraisals. (excluding those on blood donors), most of which are performed in either GUM clinics or antenatal care 1 HIV Infection services . 1 Health Protection Agency. HIV in the UK 2011 report. November 2011: Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what plans he has for the future funding of www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1317131685847 the HIV/AIDS support funding line after March 2015; Further improvement of HIV testing provision is a and if he will make a statement. [188462] high public health priority. Comprehensive public health surveillance data show that the HIV epidemic is not Jane Ellison: As a transitional measure, for 2013-14 evenly spread across the UK. Given this situation it is the Local Government Finance Settlement included uncertain whether a universal screening programme additional financial information for local authorities to which would test the whole population would represent assist in their provision of HIV social care services. The an appropriate response. However the UKNSC is Local Government Finance Settlement for 2014-15 and commissioning a review of the evidence for a universal 579W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 580W screening programme in adults. The Committee hopes adults aged 15 years old or above who lived in Leeds to be in a position to consult on the review in early local authority and in England using 2010 - 2012 three 2015. year combined data. Late HIV diagnosis rate in Leeds was 48% (95% confidence interval (CI): 45-58%), which HIV Infection: Leeds is similar to 52% (95%CI: 47-49%) in England. Alec Shelbrooke: To ask the Secretary of State for Table 2 provides diagnosed HIV prevalence rate among Health what the reasons are for differences in the rate individuals aged 15 years old or above who lived in of (a) diagnosed HIV and (b) proportion of late Leeds local authority and in England. British HIV diagnosed HIV in Leeds compared to the national Association testing guidelines recommend expansion of HIV testing policies beyond the routine if the diagnosed average; and what steps he is taking to address such 1 differences. [188629] HIV prevalence is above 2 per 1,000 population . This guideline, ‘British HIV Association UK national guidelines Jane Ellison: Sexual health and HIV testing services for HIV testing 2008’, is available at: are provided through a variety of settings and by a www.bhiva.org/documents/Guidelines/Testing/ variety of providers including primary care, community GlinesHIVTest08.pdf and outreach services, and hospital and specialist Expanded HIV testing is defined as the routine offer genitourinary medicine (GUM) services. and recommendation of HIV testing in general medical Table 1 provides late HIV diagnosis rates (CD4<350 services, e.g. general practice, or the establishment of cells/mm3 within three months of HIV diagnosis) among HIV testing in other settings.

Table 1: Late HIV diagnosis among individuals (aged 15 years or above): Leeds local authority and England, 2010-12 Number of adults with a CD4<350 at Number of adults Late HIV diagnosis Lower limit of 95% Upper limit of 95% Area of residence diagnosis diagnosed with HIV1 rate (%) Confidence Interval Confidence Interval

Leeds 113 219 52 45 58 England 6,489 13,447 48 47 49 1 Only include adults who had a CD4 cell count report within three months of diagnosis and had residence information reported. Table 2: Diagnosed HIV prevalence among individuals (aged 15 or above): Leeds local authority and England, 2012 Residents accessing HIV related Estimated resident population in Diagnosed HIV prevalence per Area of residence care1 (aged 15 to 59) 1,000s2 (aged15to59) 1,000 (aged 15 to 59)

Leeds 1,048 475.2 2.2 England 65,801 31,939.5 2.06 1 Data from the Survey of Prevalent HIV Infections Diagnosed (SOPHID), Public Health England, 2012. 2 Data from the Office for National Statistics, mid -2012 estimates.

Home Care Services focus only on price and time-slots, to consider how to do things differently and deliver better outcomes and quality care. Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Health The Care Bill, currently before Parliament, will send (1) if his Department will collect statistics on the a clear message to local authorities in Clause 5 that number of care visits which are shorter than 15 commissioning services without properly considering minutes; [188907] the impact of those services on an individual’s well-being (2) what guidance his Department provides on the is unacceptable. This will be amplified through statutory length of time of care visits. [188908] and other guidance that will describe the sorts of practice that are and are not acceptable. This guidance is being co-produced with a wide range of stakeholders, including Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health local government and the Care and Support Alliance. if he will make it his policy to count the number of In addition, the Department is actively working with flying care visits. [188608] the Association of Directors of Adult Social Care (ADASS) and the Local Government Association (LGA) Norman Lamb: The Department does not collect to develop a set of commissioning standards for local data on the detail of home care visits; instead, the focus authorities. These will enable local authorities to gauge of data collections is on the outcomes of social care so how effectively they are commissioning in comparison that we can understand more about how services are to their peers, and support ADASS and the LGA to affecting people’s lives. promote sector-led continuous improvement in commissioning. There may be some circumstances where short visits are appropriate as part of someone’s package of care—for example, care workers calling in to make sure someone Liver Diseases has taken their medicine. However, the Government’s view is that, in most cases, very short visits for intimate Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State care are incompatible with people’s well-being, and we for Health when Public Health England will publish are taking action both legislatively and non-legislatively the modelling work it has undertaken on the effect of to address the issue. Commissioning practice needs to increased treatment on averting the future burden of move away from overly prescriptive processes which hepatitis C-related end-stage liver disease. [188690] 581W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 582W

Jane Ellison: The paper ″Provision of care for patients Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Health with hepatitis C in England: future burden of HCV-related whether hospital records will be made available as part liver disease and impact of treatment under different of care.data. [188607] scenarios″ has been provisionally accepted for publication in a peer review journal. A final publication date has Dr Poulter: Under the care.data programme, the intention not yet been given. is to link primary care data with Hospital Episode Some preliminary findings were published in the Statistics data. As with other data held by the Health ‘Hepatitis C in the UK 2013 report’, on page 71 (see and Social Care Information Centre, no information also Table 24 on page 86): which identifies or could enable identification of an www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1317139502302 individual can be released without a legal basis to do so.

Medical Records: Databases Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Health under which circumstances (a) the police and (b) the security services will be able to access patient data Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Health extracted as part of care.data. [188654] (1) what target he has set of the level of public awareness of care.data before GPs can proceed with the Dr Poulter: The circumstances by which access to upload of patient data; [188586] patient data by the police and the security services will (2) what steps he will take to consult patients and remain the same as now. A warrant or a court order doctors during the six-month delay to the start of would be required before the Health and Social Care care.data; [188685] Information Centre release any confidential information. (3) what steps he will take over the next six months to improve public awareness of care.data; [188688] Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (4) what conditions of public awareness and consent (1) how many disclosures of NHS Secondary Uses must be met before the care.data extraction of patient Service data to non-NHS bodies have taken place in the last five years; [188655] data begins. [188729] (2) how many audits of the use of NHS Secondary Dr Poulter: Discussions are currently being undertaken Uses Service data have been carried out in the last five by NHS England in collaboration with a range of years. [188656] stakeholders including the British Medical Association and the Royal College of General Practitioners to determine Dr Poulter: NHS Secondary Uses Service (SUS) data the future level of public engagement. has been disclosed to the Dr. Foster Unit based at Imperial College London, for the purpose of health research. The legal basis for this flow of data was Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Health established by the initial approval and subsequent annual whether funding for care.data is in place for 2014-15 renewal of a Section 251 request to the Ethics and and future financial years. [188587] Confidentiality Committee of the former National Information Governance Board. The Dr. Foster Unit at Dr Poulter: The Health and Social Care Information Imperial College has received 60 extracts of data from Centre is in the process of agreeing the scope of the SUS in the last five years. care.data programme and the associated funding required SUS data has also been provided, in pseudonymised with NHS England and with other members of the form, to the Department and the Audit Commission. Informatics Services Commissioning Group. There have been six audits within the last five years that have included audit of SUS data. Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether patient data extracted as part of the care.data programme will be made available to countries outside Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the UK. [188605] pursuant to the answer of 10 February 2014, Official Report, column 464W, on medical records: databases, whether care.data will be used in improving the care Dr Poulter: There are no plans to make identifiable given to individual patients or in improving the overall the data extracted as part of care.data available to provision of care. [188866] countries outside the United Kingdom. Dr Poulter: The purpose of care.data is to support a Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Health range of uses of data beyond direct care. These uses will what assessment he has made of the compatibility of support the overall provision of care in terms of services the care.data programme with current human rights and research into treatments and will benefit both the legislation. [188606] general population as well as the individual patient.

Dr Poulter: The ‘care.data’ programme is based on Meningitis: Vaccination statutory powers set out in the Health and Social Care Act 2012 which take forward the ambitions set out in the Government’s information strategy for health and Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for care in England—‘The power of information’ published Health what recent written communication he has 2012. The 2012 Act was declared to be compatible with received from clinicians and healthcare professionals the Human Rights Act. on the introduction of a meningitis B vaccine. [188612] 583W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 584W

Jane Ellison: We received two letters from health care pain management. This guidance represents evidence-based professionals, supporting the introduction of the meningitis best practice and provides a clear description of what B vaccine, Bexsero®. The first letter, which was received high-quality health and social care services look like, so in January 2014, had 118 signatories. This letter was that organisations can improve quality and achieve resent to the Department in February with an additional excellence. 167 signatories. The Department expects CCGs to take into account These letters were sent by the Meningitis Research any relevant NICE guidance as they design services to Foundation. meet the needs of patients.

Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Palliative Care Health (1) whether he received advice from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) on the introduction of a meningitis B vaccination Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for programme on the NHS following the JCVI meeting of Health (1) what guidance his Department has issued on the circumstances whereby a Do Not Resuscitate notice 11 February 2014; [188613] may be placed in a patient’s file; and if he will make a (2) pursuant to the meeting of the Joint Committee statement; [188591] on Vaccination and Immunisation on 11 February 2014 and the report from the Chief Medical Officer Our (2) what safeguards exist to protect patients from Children Deserve Better, if he will ensure that all having Do Not Resuscitate notices placed in their file children in England have access to a meningitis B without their meaningful consent. [188623] vaccine. [188824] Jane Ellison: The Department published a Health Jane Ellison: We are awaiting final advice from the Service Circular to national health service trusts in Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation September 2000 which asked NHS trust chief executives (JCVI) about the use of the meningococcal B vaccine, to “ensure that appropriate resuscitation policies which Bexsero®. respect patients’ rights are in place, understood by all relevant staff, and accessible to those who need them, The JCVI is due to report back in March 2014, and that such policies are subject to appropriate audit having reviewed additional evidence at its meeting earlier and monitoring arrangements”. The Circular commended this month. as a basis for local policies the Joint Statement, ‘Decisions We will respond to any JCVI recommendation as relating to Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation’, by the British quickly as possible. Medical Association, the Resuscitation Council (UK) and the Royal College of Nursing. The Department NHS: Innovation reminded chief executives of their responsibility in February 2012. Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Health A decision not to attempt cardiopulmonary resuscitation if he will publish the advice given to the Clinical (CPR), like other decisions not to attempt a particular Director for Specialised Services of NHS England by form of medical treatment, does not require the patient’s the Clinical Priorities Advisory Group and the Direct consent. However, as with all clinical decisions, healthcare Commissioned Service Committee on the cancellation staff are expected to be able to explain and defend their of the NHS Innovations budget. [188513] decisions to their employing authorities and their professional regulatory bodies. Jane Ellison: NHS England advise that the decision to suspend the Specialised Services Commissioning Professional guidance to the medical profession in Innovation Fund (SSCIF) was made by the executive the Joint Statement and in ‘Treatment and care towards team. The development of the SSCIF is outside the the end of life: good practice in decision making’, by scope of Clinical Priorities Advisory Group. The executive the General Medical Council, is clear that a decision team formed their decision balancing the issues of that CPR should not be attempted must always be deliverability of the scheme alongside a significantly made on the basis of an individual assessment of each overspending financial position for specialised services. patient’s case, and that communication and the provision of information are essential parts of good quality care. Pain Both documents provide detailed guidance on consultation with the patient and those close to the patient. Valerie Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what guidance his Department has given to clinical Shingles: Vaccination commissioning groups on the number of pain management sessions which should be (a) funded and (b) funded Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for for patients with painful progressive conditions. [188622] Health what steps he is taking to make shingles vaccination available to people between the ages of 70 Norman Lamb: NHS England allocates funding to and 79; and what his planned timetable is for achieving clinical commissioning groups (CCGs), who commission that end. [188698] health services on behalf of their local population. It is for local CCGs to decide how to best use the Jane Ellison: The Joint Committee on Vaccination funding allocated to them, underpinned by clinical insight and Immunisation recommended that everyone aged 70 and knowledge of local health care needs. to 79 should be offered a shingles vaccine. A universal The National Institute of Health and Care Excellence routine herpes zoster (shingles) vaccination programme (NICE) has published a range of guidance on pain and for adults aged 70 started in September 2013. 585W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 586W

Vaccine supply for the national health service programme Disability is at present limited, there is only enough vaccine to fully vaccinate two birth cohorts—the routine cohort Andy Sawford: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet (those aged 70 on 1 September 2013), and one catch-up Office what proportion of working age adults are cohort (those aged 79 on 1 September 2013). It was currently registered as disabled in (a) Corby and East agreed the most equitable approach is to vaccinate Northamptonshire, (b) Northamptonshire, (c) the those aged 79 years this year as they will be too old to East Midlands and (d) England. [189424] be eligible for vaccination in 2014-15 (the efficacy of the vaccine declines after age 80). Mr Hurd: The information requested is not held by This is a progressive programme and all those aged the Cabinet Office. between 70 and 79 will receive the vaccine as part of an Driving: Licensing annual catch-up programme. In 2014-15 it is planned to vaccinate those aged 78 on 1 September 2014 in an George Galloway: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet additional catch-up programme. However, how quickly Office if he will contact Google management to ask them the catch-up programme can be achieved is dependent to remove from Google all unofficial websites asking on the availability of shingles vaccine in coming years, a for money for services provided by DVLA. [189559] matter which is being pursued actively by the Department and Public Health England officials. Mr Maude: This Government is already taking action to tackle rogue websites which masquerade as legitimate Vitamin B12 Government services, exaggerate the nature of the services they provide, or deliberately underplay the services that Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health people can get for free or at a lower cost from official what discussions he has had with NICE on developing sources. We are working, and will continue to work, new guidelines for diagnosing B12 deficiency including with organisations such as the Advertising Standards (a) an active B12 test, (b) Methylmalonic Acid tests Authority (ASA), the National Trading Standards Board and (c) assessment of the clinical picture; and if he will (NTSB), Which? and search engines, including Google, make a statement. [188588] to raise awareness of this issue and to ensure enforcement action is taken where appropriate. Norman Lamb: No such discussions have taken place. Misleading websites tend to come to the attention of NHS England now commissions clinical guidelines the public as sponsored advertisements on search engine from the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence results pages. The Government Digital Service has been (NICE). We are not aware of plans to ask NICE to working with Google to identify advertisements which develop guidance specifically on the diagnosis of B12 mislead consumers and have therefore breached Google’s deficiency. policies. As a result, Google has recently taken down a series of sponsored adverts. Ministerial colleagues and I have met with Google to CABINET OFFICE discuss the enforcement of its policies for advertising on Debts: Chelmsford its search results pages We are providing them with clear information about Government services so that they can identify and take action against websites that Mr Simon Burns: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet add little or no value to existing online Government Office what estimate he has made of the average change services. Google will continue to support us by removing in the level of household (a) borrowing and (b) debt those misleading adverts and by closing the accounts of in Chelmsford constituency between 2008 and 2013. repeat offenders. [189437] Members of the public can report misleading websites Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the at: responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have www.gov.uk asked the authority to reply. from where they can make a complaint to Google and Letter from Caron Walker: other search engines. On behalf of the Director General for the Office for National Prostate Cancer Statistics (ONS), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking the Minister for the Cabinet Office what the estimated annual change in the level of household (a) borrowing Paul Burstow: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet and (b) debt was between 2008 and 2013 in Chelmsford constituency Office what assessment he has made of the trend in (189437). prostate cancer (a) one-year, (b) two-year and (c) The Office for National Statistics publishes details of the five-year survival rates over the last 20 years; and if he financial liabilities of households and non-profit institutions serving will make a statement. [189608] households (NPISH) combined. These data are only available at the United Kingdom level and hence data are not available for Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Chelmsford constituency. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have The UK data are published in the UK Economic Accounts for asked the authority to reply. Quarter 3 published on 20th December 2013 which is available at: Letter from Glen Watson, dated February 2014: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/naa1-rd/united-kingdom- As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I economic-accounts/q3-2013/index.html have been asked to reply to your recent question asking the The most recent analyses on debt can be found in table A64 of Minister for the Cabinet Office what assessment has been made of this publication The most recent analyses on borrowing can be the trend in prostate cancer (a) one-year, (b) two-year and (c) five-year found in Tables A12 and A 55 of this publication. survival rates over the last 20 years [189608]. 587W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 588W

ONS publishes one and five-year cancer survival estimates for given; and whether UN Security Council Resolution England, for a range of cancers including prostate cancer. Two-year 2122(2013) imposes additional obligations in any other cancer survival estimates are not available. relevant respect. [188734] The latest estimates available are for people diagnosed in 2007-2011 and followed up to 2012, These are provided in Table : Humanitarian principals require 1, with figures for each preceding period back to 1998-2001, with that organisations provide aid according to need and follow-up to 2003. need alone. Provision of safe abortion services using Although prostate cancer survival estimates prior to the period UK development aid must be in line with the UK’s 1998-2001 are available, these are not in a consistent time series so have not been included in Table 1. policy position on safe and unsafe abortion. UKAID cannot be used to procure illegal services. UN Security The latest published figures on cancer survival in England are available on the National Statistics website at: Council Resolution 2122(2013) does not impose any additional obligations in this respect. http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/cancer-unit/cancer-survival/ index.html Developing Countries: Disability The Scottish Cancer Registry produces statistics on cancer in Scotland. Statistics on cancer in Wales are produced by the Welsh Cancer Intelligence and Surveillance Unit. The Northern Ireland Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Cancer Registry produces statistics on cancer in Northern Ireland. International Development what mechanisms her Department has in place to assess and demonstrate the Paul Burstow: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet impact of the ENABLE programme on poverty Office (1) how many deaths from prostate cancer there reduction. [189367] were in each (a) Government office region and (b) age Justine Greening: All DFID programmes include group in each year since 1997; [189613] monitoring arrangements to continually assess effectiveness (2) what the standardised mortality rate from prostate and impact. Enhancing Nigerian Advocacy for a Better cancer was in each year since 1997, broken down by (a) Business Environment (ENABLE) programme has been Government office region and (b) parliamentary independently reviewed each year since the programme constituency. [189609] started.

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Equality responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for International Letter from Glen Watson: Development how many publications her Department As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I has produced for the purposes of monitoring or promoting have been asked to reply to your recent questions asking the staff equality and diversity in each of the last five years; Minister for the Cabinet Office: and what the cost of producing such publications was 1. How many deaths from prostate cancer there were in each in each such year. [188884] (a) Government Office region and (b) age group, in each year since 1997. [189613] Mr Duncan: In the last year two publications have 2. What the standardised mortality rate from prostate cancer been produced. While the cost associated with productions was in each year from 1997, broken down by (a) Government has been recorded for previous years it is not possible to Office region and (b) parliamentary constituency. [189609] supply the exact number of publications as the staff Table 1 provides the number of deaths where prostate cancer responsible for their production and delivery are no was the underlying cause of death, for each region in England, for longer in place. deaths registered between 1997 and 2012 (the latest year available). The costs of doing so are published as follows: Table 2 provides the age standardised mortality rate where prostate cancer was the underlying cause of death, for each region £ in England, for deaths registered between 1997 and 2012 (the 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 latest year available). Copies of tables 1 and 2 have been placed in the House of 1 Positive Commons Library. Action Age standardised mortality rates for prostate cancer for each Reproduction 2,568 — — — — and year from 1997 by parliamentary constituency have not been Printing provided. This information is not readily available and could be Materials obtained only at a disproportionate cost. Print 594 595 495 — — Services Books and 2,338.24 — 610.35 2548.8 31.67 Publications INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Total 5,500.24 595 1,105.35 2,548.80 31.67

Developing Countries: Abortion 2 Diversity Networks Mr Burrowes: To ask the Secretary of State for Print 479.25 0 0 0 342 Services International Development pursuant to the answer of Promotional — — — — 28.08 10 February 2014, Official Report, columns 467-68W, advertising on developing countries: abortion, whether the Total 479.25 0 0 0 370.08 humanitarian principles observed by UK-funded organisations permit the procurement of abortions which Total 1 + 2 5,979.49 595 1,105.35 2,548.80 401.75 are unlawful in the jurisdiction in which the aid is being 589W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 590W

Palestinians Mr Duncan: The UK recently agreed to provide a further £10 million of support to the International Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for International Committee of the Red Cross, which includes providing Development what steps she is taking to ensure UK aid access to clean water for over 60,000 people, including to Palestinian social assistance programmes is not used through building wastewater plants in Gaza. We also to compensate convicted terrorists. [188635] work closely with the UN, EU and others to monitor and assess humanitarian needs in Gaza, including access Mr Duncan: DFID’s financial support to the Palestinian to drinking water. Discussions are ongoing regarding Authority (PA) is subject to rigorous scrutiny. We have a the construction of a desalination plant, the viability of number of safeguards in place to ensure our money is which will be determined by the availability of a sustainable spent as intended and we keep these under constant power supply. review. These include extensive precautions to ensure that UK money does not support Hamas or other Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for terrorist organisations either directly or indirectly, in International Development what assessment she has compliance with UK and EU legislation on terrorist made of the availability of fresh drinking water for financing. UK funding to the Palestinian Authority is Palestinians in Gaza. [188694] only used to pay civil servant salaries, and only named civil servants from a pre-approved list are eligible. The Mr Duncan: The Government is concerned about the process is independently audited, which ensures we availability of fresh drinking water for Palestinians in know exactly where and how our money is being spent. Gaza. According to the UN, over 90% of the water from the Gaza aquifer is unsafe for human consumption Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for without treatment, and the coastal aquifer is set to International Development what assessment she has become too polluted for use by 2016. Access to water is made of the role of UK aid to Palestine in encouraging affected by a lack of rainfall, inadequate infrastructure, a climate conducive to achieving a peaceful resolution movement and access restrictions, and the inequitable to the Israel-Palestine conflict. [188636] distribution of water resources with Israel.

Mr Duncan: UK aid in the Occupied Palestinian Uganda Territories supports the UK Government’s objectives for a successful Middle East Peace Process by helping to Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for build Palestinian institutions and promoting economic International Development what discussions her growth, so that any future state will be stable, prosperous, Department has had with civil society groups in Uganda well-run, and an effective partner for peace with Israel. on new laws on homosexuality in that country. [189364] Aid to the Palestinian Authority is helping to build credible and viable institutions as the basis of any Justine Greening: FCO and DFID Ministers and future state. The Government firmly supports the current Officials have had discussion with a wide range of civil efforts of US Secretary Kerry and welcomes the leadership society organisations, human rights defenders and LGBT shown by Prime Minister Netanyahu and President groups, including Sexual Minority Rights Uganda. Abbas. We continue to call on both parties to take the bold steps needed to allow US efforts to succeed, with Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for the ongoing support of EU and Arab states, and the International Development what discussions she has wider international community. had with the Ugandan Government on new laws on homosexuality in that country. [189368] Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how much the Government gives annually Justine Greening: Both DFID and FCO Ministers in aid directly to the Palestinian authority; and how her and officials have met regularly with representatives of Department audits how such money is spent. [188637] the Government of Uganda, including the Prime Minister, senior Ugandan Ministers and officials, to raise serious Mr Duncan: DFID’s Operational Plan committed concerns on the Anti-Homosexuality Bill. £122 million from 2011 to 2015 in direct aid to the Palestinian Authority (PA). The UK made an additional contribution of £7.5 million in 2013. Our financial assistance to the Palestinian Authority is provided through TREASURY the World Bank Palestinian Reform and Development Plan Trust Fund, which carries out close monitoring of Equality PA expenditure and only transfers UK money to the PA during the year if the agreed reform plan is on track. Mr Raab: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer The PA also publishes information on its expenditure, how many publications his Department has produced which we monitor. Independent audits of the use of for the purposes of monitoring or promoting staff DFID’s funding by the PA are carried out every six equality and diversity in each of the last five years; and months to provide an additional level of verification what the cost of producing such publications was in that the money has been used for the intended purposes. each such year. [188889]

Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gauke: No costs have been incurred for publications International Development what provisions are in monitoring or prompting staff equality and diversity in place to prevent water contamination and provide the last five years. The Treasury publishes data on its access to drinking water in Gaza. [188691] equality schemes on the Treasury website. 591W Written Answers28 FEBRUARY 2014 Written Answers 592W

Excise Duties Sajid Javid: The information requested is not available. It is not possible to distinguish rental income from Alec Shelbrooke: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer residential property from other property income. In what estimate he has made of how much the average addition, both Income Tax and Corporation Tax aggregate UK consumer pays each year in (a) fuel duty, (b) many types of income and deductions. Consequently alcohol excise duties and (c) tobacco duties. [188539] this does not generally allow a direct, accurate attribution of any tax arising to specific income sources. Mr Leech: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Motor Vehicles: Excise Duties how much the average person pays each year in (a) fuel duty and (b) alcohol excise duty; and if he will make a Steve Baker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer statement. [188652] if he will meet with representatives of the Motorcycle Action Group and the British Motorcyclists Federation Nicky Morgan: Estimates can be made of the duty to consider the potential benefits of re-evaluating vehicle paid by the average UK consumer each year by comparing excise duty in the context of the Government’s HMRC published tax receipts with ONS published environmental targets. [188406] estimates of the adult population. The following table uses this method to estimate the payment of each duty Nicky Morgan: Treasury Ministers and officials receive requested per adult in 2012-13: a wide variety of representations from organisations in both the public and private sectors and welcome £ stakeholders’ views as part of the annual Budget Fuel duty per Alcohol duties per Tobacco duties representations process. Guidance to submitting Budget adult adult per adult representations is available online at: 2012-13 514 198 187 www.gov.uk/government/publications/budget-representations- guidance Financial Services Taxation: Banks

Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Paul Flynn: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he expects the Financial Conduct Authority to if he will introduce a one-off levy on bonuses given to investment bankers in 2014 to help fund measures needed publish rules relating to peer-to-peer lending. [189388] to assist flood victims. [188410] Sajid Javid: The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) Sajid Javid: The Government is doing everything it consulted on draft rules for the peer to peer lending and can to support those affected by flooding, and has crowdfunding sectors in autumn 2013 and will issue a announced a package of measures to support affected policy statement shortly. homes and businesses. Further detail of the package of measures can be found here: Income Tax https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-floods-2014- government-response Mr Lammy: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer These measures are funded from general taxation, including how much tax was paid on residential rental income in of financial services activity. A Bank Levy is already in (a) 2010, (b) 2011, (c) 2012 and (d) 2013 in (i) the place, and it is currently forecast to raise £2.7 billion in UK and (ii) Greater London. [188537] 2014-15 and £2.9 billion a year thereafter. WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Friday 28 February 2014

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 35WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— UK Statistics Authority (Contingencies Fund continued Advance)...... 35WS Overseas Security and Justice Assistance Guidance ...... 37WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 35WS NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 38WS EU Energy Council...... 35WS On-the-Runs Scheme ...... 38WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 36WS TREASURY ...... 35WS Afghanistan (Monthly Progress Report) ...... 36WS Finance Bill 2014 ...... 35WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Friday 28 February 2014

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 560W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 505W Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 560W Energy: Prices ...... 505W Equality ...... 506W CABINET OFFICE...... 585W Forests ...... 507W Debts: Chelmsford ...... 585W Fuel Poverty...... 507W Disability ...... 586W Fuel Poverty: Essex ...... 508W Driving: Licensing...... 586W Green Deal Scheme...... 508W Prostate Cancer...... 586W Maternity Pay ...... 509W Natural Gas: Disconnections ...... 510W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 532W Nurseries...... 509W Community Assets: West Yorkshire ...... 532W Equality ...... 532W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Housing: Standards ...... 533W AFFAIRS...... 501W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 533W Equality ...... 501W Parking ...... 534W Flood Control...... 502W Travellers: Caravan Sites ...... 535W Floods: Derby...... 502W Written Questions: Government Responses ...... 535W Floods: Property Development ...... 502W Maternity Pay ...... 503W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 515W Meat: Ritual Slaughter...... 503W Arts: Essex ...... 515W Rivers: Dredging...... 503W Food: Advertising ...... 515W Seas and Oceans: Special Areas of Conservation ... 504W UK Sport...... 516W Slaughterhouses ...... 504W

DEFENCE...... 516W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 525W Armed Forces: Floods...... 516W Argentina...... 525W Burma...... 516W British Nationals Abroad...... 526W Cyprus ...... 517W Burma...... 526W Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft...... 517W Capital Punishment...... 527W Members: Correspondence ...... 518W China ...... 527W Military Aid: Floods...... 518W Gibraltar...... 527W Military Bases: Scotland ...... 518W Gibraltar: Spain ...... 528W Radioactive Waste: Fife ...... 519W North Korea ...... 528W Railways: Concessions ...... 520W Pakistan ...... 528W Pakistan: Iran ...... 529W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 510W Peru ...... 529W Electoral Register: Second Homes ...... 510W Uganda ...... 529W Ukraine...... 530W EDUCATION...... 521W USA...... 532W Academies...... 521W Barnfield Federation ...... 521W HEALTH...... 569W Child Minding ...... 522W Abortion ...... 569W Children: Autism...... 522W Animal Experiments ...... 569W Female Genital Mutilation...... 522W Autism ...... 570W Foster Care ...... 523W Cancer ...... 570W Free School Meals...... 523W Cholesterol...... 570W Free School Meals: Liverpool ...... 523W Clinical Priorities Advisory Group...... 571W Internet: Bullying...... 523W Dementia ...... 572W Pupils: Attendance...... 524W Electronic Cigarettes ...... 572W Schools: Vocational Guidance...... 525W Equality ...... 572W Young People: Training...... 525W Fertility: Males...... 573W Col. No. Col. No. HEALTH—continued JUSTICE—continued Flour: Folic Acid...... 573W Reoffenders...... 554W General Practitioners ...... 574W Reoffenders: Females ...... 555W General Practitioners: Leeds ...... 574W Secure Colleges ...... 556W Genito-urinary Medicine ...... 574W Serco ...... 556W Gynaecology...... 577W Staff ...... 557W Hepatitis ...... 577W Travel ...... 558W HIV Infection ...... 577W Written Questions ...... 559W HIV Infection: Leeds ...... 579W Home Care Services ...... 579W TRANSPORT ...... 511W Liver Diseases ...... 580W Driving: Licensing...... 511W Medical Records: Databases ...... 581W Equality ...... 511W Meningitis: Vaccination ...... 582W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 511W NHS: Innovation ...... 583W M25 ...... 512W Pain...... 583W Railways: Disability ...... 513W Palliative Care...... 584W Railways: Franchises ...... 513W Shingles: Vaccination ...... 584W Railways: Graffiti...... 513W Vitamin B12...... 585W Railways: South West...... 514W Roads: Graffiti ...... 514W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 587W Rolling Stock ...... 514W Developing Countries: Abortion...... 587W West Coast Railway Line ...... 514W Developing Countries: Disability ...... 588W Equality ...... 588W TREASURY ...... 590W Palestinians ...... 589W Equality ...... 590W Uganda ...... 590W Excise Duties...... 591W Financial Services ...... 591W JUSTICE...... 535W Income Tax ...... 591W Chemicals ...... 535W Motor Vehicles: Excise Duties...... 592W Communications Act 2003...... 536W Taxation: Banks ...... 592W Community Orders: Greater London...... 537W Family Law: Appeals ...... 537W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 568W Fines ...... 538W Gender Recognition...... 568W Fixed Penalties...... 539W Gender Recognition...... 539W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 560W Maghull Prison ...... 539W Access to Work Programme ...... 560W Medomsley Secure Training Centre ...... 539W Disability Living Allowance...... 561W Ministers’ Private Offices ...... 540W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 561W Oakwood Prison ...... 541W Employment Schemes: Disability...... 562W Office of the Public Guardian...... 542W Equality ...... 562W Prison Sentences ...... 544W Jobseeker’s Allowance...... 563W Prison Service ...... 547W Minimum Wage ...... 563W Prisoners: Females ...... 547W Pensioners: Social Security Benefits ...... 564W Prisoners: Foreign Nationals...... 548W Personal Independence Payment...... 564W Prisoners: Self-harm...... 548W Retirement: Females ...... 565W Prisons ...... 549W Social Security Benefits...... 565W Prisons: Civil Disorder...... 549W State Retirement Pensions: Females ...... 566W Prisons: Feltham ...... 553W Telephone Services...... 566W Prisons: Mother and Baby Units...... 553W Winter Fuel Payments...... 567W Prisons: Research ...... 554W Work Programme...... 568W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

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CONTENTS

Friday 28 February 2014

House of Lords Reform (No. 2) Bill [Col. 524] As amended, considered; read the Third time and passed

Face Coverings (Prohibition) Bill [Col. 569] Motion for Second Reading—(Mr Hollobone)

Community Radio Licences [Col. 597] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Statements [Col. 35WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 501W] [see index inside back page]