Oral History Interview with Tony Delap, 2018 June 8-14
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Oral history interview with Tony DeLap, 2018 June 8-14 Funding for this interview was provided by the Lichtenberg Family Foundation. Contact Information Reference Department Archives of American Art Smithsonian Institution Washington. D.C. 20560 www.aaa.si.edu/askus Transcript Preface The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Tony DeLap on June 8, 11, and 13, 2018. The interview took place at the home of Tony DeLap in Corona del Mar, California, and was conducted by Matthew Simms for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution. Tony DeLap and Matthew Simms have reviewed the transcript. Selected corrections and emendations appear below in brackets with initials. This transcript has been edited for readability by the Archives of American Art. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. Interview MATTHEW SIMMS: This is Matthew Simms with Tony DeLap at his home in Corona Del Mar on June 8th, Friday, 2018, for the Archives of American Art Smithsonian Institution. How are you feeling this morning, Tony? [Laughs.] TONY DELAP: Okay. MATTHEW SIMMS: How are you feeling this morning? Good? TONY DELAP: I think okay. I've only had one cup of coffee, but I think that I'll make it. [Laughs.] MATTHEW SIMMS: Okay. Well, I thought we would basically just start at the beginning, if possible. I'm going to double check that your mic is not being blocked. [Brief side conversation about recording device.]. Let's start at the beginning. [They laugh.] TONY DELAP: At the beginning. MATTHEW SIMMS: Going way back into the recesses. TONY DELAP: That is going way back. And when we say, "the beginning," we're talking about my very beginning, or—? MATTHEW SIMMS: Well, you were born on November 4— TONY DELAP: That's right. MATTHEW SIMMS: —1927— TONY DELAP: That's right. MATTHEW SIMMS: —in Oakland, California. TONY DELAP: Yeah. MATTHEW SIMMS: What was your father's name? TONY DELAP: My father's name was Truman Henry DeLap. MATTHEW SIMMS: Truman Henry DeLap. And where was he originally from? TONY DELAP: I'm sorry? MATTHEW SIMMS: Where was he originally from? TONY DELAP: My father was from a very, very large, very poor family—there were nine children involved in the family—in Oregon. MATTHEW SIMMS: [02:05] In Oregon. TONY DELAP: And his father, my grandfather, was quite involved with, I think, the church. And I really don't know too much what else. I think that maybe he did a little teaching and so forth. And my—I'm not sure the age of passing of my grandfather, but my grandmother DeLap, I think, died at just 100. And she was a real pioneer lady. They came out from, actually, from Madison, Wisconsin, which, strangely enough, is where Houdini lived for a while, [laughs] which I always thought was kind of— MATTHEW SIMMS: A coincidence, yes. TONY DELAP: —kind of curious. She came out in a covered wagon— MATTHEW SIMMS: A covered wagon. TONY DELAP: —from Madison, Wisconsin. And I believe she was two or three years old, and they had—they kept her in a bathtub to—for her safety. And when they got to Tulelake, California, they were attacked by Indians, and the Indians surrounded the Americans, and, just like a movie, she was still apparently in this bathtub for safety. And just as the, I guess, the Indians were getting ready to charge, the United States Cavalry came and chased off the Indians. MATTHEW SIMMS: [Laughs.] Just like in a movie. TONY DELAP: Just like in the movies. [03:58] So they went on to Klamath Falls, and Klamath Falls is where they settled, and Klamath Falls is where my father was born. MATTHEW SIMMS: Okay. And the name DeLap, where does that come from? TONY DELAP: DeLap, D-E-L-A-P. Well, I don't think anybody knows exactly. My father always thought it was probably Scotch-Irish, something of the sort. And I ran into a lady many, many years ago, at a home that was being viewed, a new home that was being viewed, and she was seeing for the people coming to see the home, and when she saw my name, DeLap, she said, "Oh," she said, "we have a very good friend who we're going over to meet next week in London whose name is DeLap." And I said, "Is he from England?" And she said, "No, he's from Scotland." So apparently it's not that unique. MATTHEW SIMMS: Yeah. And the D-E and the L-A-P— TONY DELAP: Well— MATTHEW SIMMS: —it's interesting because there's a capital L in the middle. TONY DELAP: Capital L-A-P, and, you know, I said to my father, I guess, probably more than once, I said, "Do we capitalize the L?" And he said, "Well," he said, "I think you ought to do anything you want with it." MATTHEW SIMMS: [Laughs.] Okay. TONY DELAP: That was his thought on that. [Laughs.] MATTHEW SIMMS: So your grandfather—your father, then, coming from Klamath Falls. Your mother's side. TONY DELAP: My father—my— MATTHEW SIMMS: Your mother's side. TONY DELAP: Yeah, all my father's side at the moment. MATTHEW SIMMS: Right, okay. So if we shift over to your mother's side, then, where—what was her— TONY DELAP: Skip over to my mother's side. [05:58] My mother was from very close, a little town outside Columbus, Ohio. I'm trying to think of the name of it; I guess it'll come to me. And her father had a—I think it was a men's clothing store, or haberdashery, or whatever, in the—I'm trying to think of the town. This was a town about 40 miles outside Columbus, a small town. And she lived to 103. MATTHEW SIMMS: My goodness. TONY DELAP: Yeah. So there is some longevity [laughs] there in the family, which, I'm sure, is good. The men didn't seem to fare so well. They—[they laugh.] They went off a little quicker. MATTHEW SIMMS: What is her name? TONY DELAP: My mother? MATTHEW SIMMS: Yes. TONY DELAP: Catherine [Elizabeth] DeLap. And my mother went to—I'm trying to think of the name of it. We can easily find out, but it was a—at the time, it was a women's school, after high school, in that area. And when I was quite small, my mother, my sister, and I—my father was always too busy, but my mother, my sister, and I would take the train from the Bay Area on several early Christmases and all to Chicago, and change trains, and then go from there to Columbus, Ohio for— MATTHEW SIMMS: [08:06] Wonderful. TONY DELAP: —Christmas, usually. There was—and that was the main reason for going back. MATTHEW SIMMS: And they would have those observation cars, sometimes, and you could get up and— TONY DELAP: I'm not sure if they had observation cars that early. I remember observation cars on other trains, but I think—what I do remember about our train from Berkeley, where we would board to Chicago, had the— what's the last car called? MATTHEW SIMMS: The caboose. TONY DELAP: Yeah. And it had that open back. And, of course, I thought that was sensational. MATTHEW SIMMS: The best part of the train. TONY DELAP: Best part of the train. MATTHEW SIMMS: Except that it gets whipped around a lot. TONY DELAP: Yeah. And so, you know, the memories are—[laughs]—short on those trips, and at my age, but I do remember a—I remember a few things. At the—in Chicago, we always stayed at the Palmer House, which was kind of, I guess, standard practice for people like us going from, you know, coast to coast. And they had, which I found out, they had a magic shop at the Palmer House. And I'm trying to think of the name of it; probably it will come to me. But that was a—that was just one of the great thrills of my life. [10:00] I know I was wandering around the hotel one, I guess, evening, and I saw all these colorful kind of things that I had no idea what they were for, and they were all—it was all magical apparatus that were, you know—so I went into this store and looked around, and just kind of thought all this was very pretty—pretty terrific. And then I don't know if on the first trip, but certainly on the second trip, I then was—I was very young, but I—my mother gave me, you know, I don't know, a dollar and fifty cents, or two dollars or something, and I remember I bought a coin trick. And [laughs] I guess I read the instructions and maybe understood them—I'm not sure—but I do remember that there was a man traveling by himself from Chicago to Columbus, as we were. And I think several times tried to show him a coin trick, and finally, being a rather nice guy, he finally just said, "You know, Tony, I just don't think I can take this anymore," [they laugh] or something equivalent to that. So I quit. But anyway, that was about my —I think my earliest magic experience. MATTHEW SIMMS: And how old were you then? TONY DELAP: I must have been about—probably about seven.