Houston Jewish History Archive at Rice University Interviewee: J. Kent "Kenny" Friedman Interviewer: Dr. Joshua Furman Date: December 28, 2020

J. Kent Friedman has recently retired as the General Counsel and Chief Administrative Officer of Morae Legal Corporation, an international legal consulting firm. He grew up in Biloxi, Mississippi, and received a B.B.A and a LL.B. degree from Tulane, as well as a LL.M. degree in Taxation from Boston University. Kenny has served as president of the Mickey Leland Kibbutzim Internship Foundation, president of the Southwest Region of the American Jewish Committee, and chairman of the Community Relations Council of the Jewish Federation of Greater Houston, among many other positions in Jewish communal and Houston lay leadership. He has received numerous awards and honors, including the Leon Jaworski Award from the Houston Bar Association Auxiliary and the Max Nathan Award from the American Jewish Committee. He is married to Dr. Ann Friedman, and has five children and eight grandchildren.

In this interview, Kenny speaks of his childhood and family history, and the role Judaism had in each. He discusses his secondary education and career, exploring how his Jewish identity adapted to and influenced his development as a lawyer and prominent community leader. Kenny speaks of his move to Houston and his involvement with the city’s political and social organizations, especially the Harris County - Houston Sports Authority. He discusses his son Andrew Friedman’s distinguished career in baseball, including stints as the general manager of the Tampa Bay Rays and Los Angeles Dodgers, and describes what it was like to have competing rooting interests during the now-controversial 2017 World Series between the Houston Astros and the Los Angeles Dodgers. He addresses the Covid-19 pandemic and its influence on his personal life. Throughout, Kenny shares insightful anecdotes from his long and distinguished career of legal work and community service.

Transcript Review by HJHA Intern Sam Raphaelson

INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

FURMAN: Hello. My name is Joshua Furman. I'm the curator of the Houston Jewish History Archive at Rice University. Today is December 28, 2020, and I'm here with J. Kent Friedman. Kenny, how are you?

FRIEDMAN: I'm well, Josh, thanks. How 'bout you?

FURMAN: I'm doing great. Thanks for taking the time to be with us, to talk about your childhood and family history, and, your career, and all that you've done here in Houston in the community. So tell us a little bit about your childhood and where you grew up.

FRIEDMAN: Well, I grew up in Biloxi, Mississippi, an unusual place for a Jewish boy to grow up. My dad was in the service, and when he was shipped overseas, my mother went to live with her sister and her sister's husband who lived in Biloxi, Mississippi. They had a ladies' ready-to-wear store there, and she stayed there until my dad got out of the service. And when he did at the end of World War II, he came back there and started his own clothing store, a men's clothing store, in in Biloxi.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: So that's where I grew up.

FURMAN: And when were you born, Kenny?

FRIEDMAN: 1944. February 12, 1944.

FURMAN: 1944. Okay. So, I mean, give us like, a sense of what it was like to grow up in, you know, a small town in the South as a Jewish kid. What was that like?

FRIEDMAN: You know, it was a great experience for me. Biloxi is on the Gulf Coast and, it is predominantly Catholic and has no real agricultural history like most of the South, and so, we didn't have any slave trade there, or that kind of thing, and so, it was, you know, it was pretty easy. Frankly there were so few Jews in town that we were kinda like the Greek family in town, right? I mean, we're just not a threat to anybody. But there were just a handful of Jewish families.

FURMAN: Mm hmm. And then what about, antisemitism or, or pressure to convert. Did anybody ever, you know, talk to you and say things like, you know, "Christ-killer," or things like that?

FRIEDMAN: No. No, I never heard any of that. I never heard any of that. I had some close friends, some boys who lived across the street from me, who were Catholic, who were very concerned about me going to hell if I hadn't been baptized, and so they quietly baptized me one day in their home. But other than, that's as close as I ever came to any kind of overt discrimination of any kind. And they were doing it for the right – for what at least in their hearts – for the right reasons.

FURMAN: Did they explain what they were doing? I mean, did they dunk your head in a bathtub? What happened?

FRIEDMAN: They sprinkled holy water on my head. Their mother has a great story about, you know, being quiet in the house and her realizing that was unusual, and sneaking up the stairs just as they were sprinkling holy water on my head and baptized me. I was about seven or eight, and –

FURMAN: [inaudible]

FRIEDMAN: – for several months I thought I was Catholic. I wouldn't eat meat on Fridays and things like that, and to my parents' everlasting credit, they just went with the flow of that. And, after a few months I, you know, kind of reverted to normal.

FURMAN: Huh. Okay. And then tell us a little bit more about the Jewish community there. Was there a rabbi? Was there a synagogue? How did it work?

FRIEDMAN: No. When I was growing up, there was not a rabbi there. We always brought in a rabbi, from New Orleans or Mobile, both of which were fairly close for the High Holy Days. I was fortunate, and when I was about to be thirteen there was a Jewish chaplain on the Air Force base, Keesler Air Force Base there, and so he did my Bar Mitzvah. Most people believe that I was the first person ever Bar Mitzvah'd in Biloxi, Mississippi, because of that. But, it was such a long time ago that my Catholic friends across the street had to get permission from the Church to attend the Bar Mitzvah, because that was at a time when the Catholic Church would not allow their parishioners to attend other services – not Jewish; any other services of any kind.

FURMAN: Wow. Wow, incredible. What about, like, Rosh Hashanah, Passover? Do you have, you know, memories of how the holidays were observed in Biloxi growing up?

FRIEDMAN: Yes, I have wonderful memories of that. My parents were very open and sharing, and we always had extra people at our home for those special holidays. Usually servicemen who were stationed at the Air Force base and were away from home, of course, and so we always had a number of them over for those kinds of holidays.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: Wonderful time.

FURMAN: Yeah.

FRIEDMAN: Wonderful time.

FURMAN: Tell me more about your parents. We haven't said much about them today. What were their names? How did they meet?

FRIEDMAN: My mother's name was Rose Frohlich, F-R-O-H-L-I-C-H. She was born in New York but grew up in Montgomery, Alabama, which is where her family ended up.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: My father's name was Earl Friedman, and he grew up in Port Arthur, Texas, which is where his family ended up. They met when my mother was working for a chain millinery store, hats and things, and was sent to Port Arthur, Texas to run their store there.

FURMAN: Hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – so they married 1941, and I was born in '44.

FURMAN: Born in '44. And then the store that your family had. Tell me a bit about the store. What did you guys sell? Did you grow up working in the store?

FRIEDMAN: Grew up working in the store. It was called Kent's, named after me. K-E-N-T- apostrophe-S. And, I did grow up working in the store. I enjoyed being in the store. Both my parents worked in the store. And, you know, it was just part of the family.

FURMAN: Mm hmm. –

FRIEDMAN: And then I had a younger sister who was four years younger, who is four years younger than I am. She stayed in Mississippi. She and her husband now live in Jackson, Mississippi. But it's the only, really family left in Mississippi for me.

FURMAN: Mm hmm. What about, you know, growing up in the South in the era of Jim Crow? I mean, can you talk about life, you know, as a Jewish kid in a segregated town, what that was like? What do you, what do you remember about that time?

FRIEDMAN: Well, it was clearly very segregated. And schools were segregated. And, I was a beneficiary of that segregation because I played a lot of sports, and probably wouldn't have had an opportunity to play as much sports if the teams had been integrated. But, you know, it was very segregated. And, although there was always a lot of interaction between the African American community and the Anglo community. I never saw much in the way of animosity towards African American people; just that they were considered to be different and separate and apart. And, and that was clearly a very strongly ingrained feeling, in Mississippi, and I remember my dad once talking about how terrible it was that we asked people of color to serve in the armed services and to put their life on the line for the country, and then when they came home, they didn't have an opportunity to do things that everybody else had the opportunity to do. And he was very offended by that, and so consequently I grew up offended by that, as well.

FURMAN: Sure, of course. In many ways, you know, this narrative is like a lot of stories of Jewish families in the South at that time, you know, in the '40s and '50s. And, you know, lots of families owned stores, and did you have any ambition or desire to stay in Mississippi, or were you always planning, as soon as you graduated high school, to leave and not come back? And to what extent did your parents want you to come back?

FRIEDMAN: I think my parents always wanted me to go do something else, but they always thought that the clothing business was a difficult way to make a living and that it would be better if I had a professional degree of some sort. And so I was always sort of aimed towards doing something other than being in the clothing business in Biloxi, Mississippi.

FURMAN: Yeah.

FRIEDMAN: It's a problem that all small towns in the South have; it's just, people grow up; there's just not a lot of opportunity there. And so there's much more opportunity elsewhere, usually in larger cities someplace.

FURMAN: Right. Yeah. This does happen. We should talk a little bit about your high school experiences. I know that you played a little baseball, right? And you –

FRIEDMAN: Played baseball and football –

FURMAN: [inaudible]

FRIEDMAN: – and ran track; did all of those things. And so yeah, I had a wonderful high school experience. I enjoyed all of my time in high school. I enjoyed my classmates; I was elected, as a senior I was elected president of the Mississippi Association of Student Councils.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: And, you know, my first, really, confrontation of racism came when I went to a[n] international student council conference in Wisconsin in my senior year. And Mississippi was one of the states that had two representatives instead of one. We had the president of the Mississippi Association of Student Councils, who was me, and the president of the Mississippi Association of Black Student Councils, a young woman from, I think, Jackson, as I recall. And so, you know, there were a handful of states that had two people there. Most people, most states only had one.

FURMAN: Wow. Okay. So you graduated high school in what year?

FRIEDMAN: 1961.

FURMAN: '61.

FRIEDMAN: Graduated from high school. Was fortunate enough to have some sports scholarship offers at several places, and ended up at Tulane –

FURMAN: Mm.

FRIEDMAN: – which was a great decision for me. It was a wonderful place to go to school. The first time I'd spent a lot of time around a predominantly Jewish community, was at Tulane.

FURMAN: Mm.

FRIEDMAN: And, joined a fraternity there, which was very helpful. Again, played baseball at Tulane, and, one of the few Jewish players on the team. Which was not unusual. I mean, that's the way it was for me all of my life.

FURMAN: Right. What position did you play? I should've asked you earlier.

FRIEDMAN: Well, I played mostly shortstop and some centerfield. In the summer times, in American Legion Ball, I played centerfield.

FURMAN: Right.

FRIEDMAN: But mostly during my high school and college days, I played shortstop.

FURMAN: Gotcha. Gotcha. Was there any, you know, bit of a culture shock coming from Biloxi, not a lot of Jewish kids, to, you know, Tulane, which has been something of a magnet for Jewish kids across the South? Was that an eye-opening experience for you in some ways?

FRIEDMAN: No, it really wasn't. It was a fairly easy transition for me. Many of the kids at Tulane who were Jewish came from small towns in the South, as well, and from Louisiana and Mississippi and Alabama and places like that, although there was a fair number from the East Coast also.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: But it was a relatively easy transition. I mean, I'd grown up in a, you know, Jewish, and synagogue, and, you know, observing holidays and things, and so, it was just not a difficult transition. But it was the first time I'd spent much time around peers who were Jewish from, really, all over the country.

FURMAN: huh. And what did you decide to study at Tulane?

FRIEDMAN: I was a business major. Didn't know what I wanted to do, exactly, but I figured business of some sort was what I wanted to do, and about midway through my junior year, I, you know, finally realized I probably wasn't gonna be a Major League Baseball player, and probably ought to go to class and pay attention. And on a whim I applied to law school and got in, and so they let me in after three years of undergraduate school, so I, my senior year of college I spent, actually, in law school. And so I graduated early because of that.

FURMAN: Mm hmm. And that was also at, at Tulane, right?

FRIEDMAN: Yes. It was all at Tulane, yes.

FURMAN: Mm hmm. And what, or who, inspired you to consider law as a career?

FRIEDMAN: You know, I'm not quite sure. That's a great question, Josh. I'm not quite sure. Nobody in my family had been a lawyer. I didn't really know any lawyers. It just seemed like it would be of interest to me. I really can— I think at that time I thought I was gonna probably be in business, anyway, but I thought a law background would be a benefit to me so I went to law school.

FURMAN: Mm hmm. Great. And what was that like? I mean, what subjects in law school appealed to you the most?

FRIEDMAN: I thought law school was the most interesting intellectual experience I had had. Clearly very cerebral; much different than certainly high school or even college in terms of the Socratic method of teaching, and my classmates were all very bright and very impressive. And so it was a wonderful time for me. I really enjoyed it a lot.

FURMAN: Mm hmm. Okay. And then tell us about how you ended up in Boston.

FRIEDMAN: Well, about halfway through law school, I realized that if I was gonna go to law school, I probably should've gone someplace else. Not that I wasn't enjoying Tulane, but just because it was an opportunity to see another part of the country.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: And so when I was graduating I applied to several firms in New York and Boston and was fortunate enough to get an opportunity with a large firm in Boston, Sullivan and Worcester, [was the] name of that firm, and, so I moved to Boston and spent a little more than two years there. I also got a master's in tax law at Boston University while I was there; they had a program that you could do part-time, so I did that, and then–

FURMAN: Okay.

FRIEDMAN: – that was a good experience, as well. Boston was great. I loved being there. It was significantly more segregated than Biloxi, Mississippi was much to my surprise. Everybody in Boston lived in enclaves. There was a Jewish section and an Irish section and an Italian section and a Black section and so forth, and there wasn't much interaction between them. Boston had just come through a very difficult time with school integration and there were a lot of angry people in Boston. I, again, much to my surprise. I thought it was gonna be sort of a bastion of liberalism, but it was not at all.

FURMAN: Yeah. What, what years were you there?

FRIEDMAN: '67 and '68.

FURMAN: '67 and '68. Okay.

FRIEDMAN: Yeah. Yeah.

FURMAN: Yeah. And, and, and then were you already married by then?

FRIEDMAN: I was married. I got married my senior year of law school, and actually after my first year of law school, after my, when I would've been a graduate from undergraduate school. And already had a child when we moved to Boston.

FURMAN: Okay. Got it. All right. And then, so why did you decide not to stay up north?

FRIEDMAN: Well, as much as I enjoyed being in that part of the country, just because it was so different I pretty quickly realized that in Boston, to be successful, you either had to have a lot of money or come from a family pedigree of some sort. And since I had neither, I decided maybe I should go someplace else to try to make my fame and fortune. And I wanted to come back to the South; wanted to live in a big city. Pretty quickly narrowed that down to Houston and Atlanta, and I was fortunate enough to get opportunities in both places. Selected Houston; it was a great decision for me, although Atlanta's a wonderful city. Houston was a great place. And I tell people all the time, Houston has made lots of successes out of a lot of very ordinary folk. You just kinda grab hold and hang on. And it's been a wonderful economic engine. And lots of opportunities to do things that I wouldn't have had elsewhere. Like, you know, within a couple of years of moving here, I was a member of the Symphony Board of Directors. And it really wouldn't happen in most other cities in the United States.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: I just showed interest and was willing to work, and next thing I knew, you know, I was a member of the board, and relatively shortly thereafter, a member of its executive committee, of the board. So, it was a wonderful way for me to reach out and meet lots of other people in town and pursue something I really enjoyed.

FURMAN: That's great.

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

FURMAN: Can you play an instrument?

FRIEDMAN: I cannot. I cannot. Played in the high school, I was part of a high school band, but mostly I was a singer. Because, although I wasn't terribly great at singing, I could undulate better than anybody else in the band, so they gave me the lead singer role.

FURMAN: Got it. Got it. That's great. So you were part of, you know, the first cohort of Jewish lawyers to be hired by major firms here in Houston. Not the first, but close to the first. Can you tell us some of that story?

FRIEDMAN: Yeah, so, the firm I went to work with when I moved to Houston was called Butler and Binion; it doesn't exist anymore; it's gone out of business. It was the fourth largest firm in Houston at that time. And I was the first Jewish lawyer they had hired. One other firm, Fulbright and Jaworski, had hired two Jewish lawyers before that, but really not any of the other firms in town.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: And so it was really in the front wave of that sort of thing. You know, coming from Biloxi it was an easy transition for me, into a firm. They were ready to hire somebody who was Jewish, I think, and so, you know, I think the, all the pieces were in place for me to be successful there, and, very quickly made partner in that firm. It was a great experience for me. You know, great place. Lots of really first-rate lawyers and first-rate people.

FURMAN: I know that there were two men in particular who were very influential in your life and in your career. Aaron Farfel and Reuben Askanase. Can you talk about them a little bit?

FRIEDMAN: Sure, happy to. Aaron Farfel and Reuben Askanase were partners in various business ventures. They had become extremely successful. Had put together one of the country's first conglomerates by putting together Evenflo baby bottles and Spalding sporting goods and Dunhill pipes into a company. Very unusual for the late 1960s. And they were a terrific partnership because they were very different people. Aaron was by-and-large the “good cop” and Rube was by-and-large the “bad cop'' in any negotiations they had, and it proved to be extraordinarily successful for them. They were both very interested in young Jewish people in town and trying to give them an opportunity to help themselves. And so, they had in their careers both used Butler and Binion among other law firms, and so they were very helpful to me in getting the job there in the first place and in making sure that I succeeded when I was there. But both of them played really major roles in my growth in Houston as a person, as a lawyer, and as a Houstonian.

FURMAN: Yeah. We have a letter in the archive that you wrote – you probably remember this – to Aaron Farfel, I think around 19— maybe sometime in the late '70s when you made partner. When was that?

FRIEDMAN: '76 was when I made partner. '75. Maybe '75 or '76. Something like that.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: And, so, yes, I was, it was a thank-you note to Aaron. I wrote one to Rube as well thanking them for their support and backing and so forth.

FURMAN: Yeah. Great. And I know Rube was very involved in politics, as well.

FRIEDMAN: He was very involved in politics. In fact, I first met him involved in politics. Had gotten involved in a fellow named Fred Hofheinz's campaign for mayor. Fred was the son of Roy Hofheinz, who was the genius behind the Astrodome, and the force behind the Astrodome. And Fred was a very bright guy; had a Ph.D. in economics from the University of Texas and a law degree from the University of Texas, and ran for mayor. Lost the first time; won the second time. And Rube, I'm not quite sure how Rube knew Fred, but Rube had been very involved with that campaign, as well, and that's how I first met Rube. He was, you know, one of the world's great fundraisers. Primarily focused on the Jewish community, but not entirely. And he was the first person I ever met, you know, who would have a fundraising event and, you know, basically lock the door and, you know, go through and call on people about how much they were gonna give. And I mean, I just never seen anybody do anything like that before. Neither had anybody else, frankly, because most of the people in that room were not Jewish, right? And they were as stunned as I was at that tactic. And you know, it was complete with things like, Rube would say, you know," How much are you gonna give?" And somebody would say, "Well, I'll give $1,000." And he would say, "You having a bad year? What do you mean, $1,000? You know, that's not enough for you, you know? You need to give five." And it was quite revolutionary for fundraising in Houston, Texas.

FURMAN: Mm hmm. Wow. That's –

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

FURMAN: – that's quite a story.

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

FURMAN: So, the association, between, you know, you and Reuben Askanase, and the Hofheinz family, sort of, you know, led to your involvement in local politics. Is that something that you had your mind set on when you came here, or it just sort of developed organically?

FRIEDMAN: Both, I think. I had always been interested in politics, and had been a, you know, a close observer of politics. In fact, I had an opportunity in 1960 – late '67, early '68 – to meet Robert Kennedy in Boston, and came into the law firm where I was working. I guess one of his prep school roommates, Charlie Cabot, was a member of the firm. And so it was, you know, quite an exciting time for me. Right before, relatively right before he was assassinated in 1968.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: But I'd always been interested in politics and, so I was fortunate to get involved in Fred’s campaigns early on. It was an easy candidate to support. He ran against a longtime incumbent, a fairly racist mayor, and so –

FURMAN: Welch?

FRIEDMAN: Louie Welch, yeah, was his name, and had a longtime racist police chief, a guy named Herman Short who was very easy to dislike. And so, you know, Fred's campaign for mayor was really to get a new police chief, and to say he lost the first time he ran against Welch; the second time Welch didn't run because he saw the handwriting on the wall, and Fred won. Fred won narrowly against another conservative opponent. But, anyway, it changed Houston, really forever, in terms of its approach to city politics. So yes. I'd been involved in Fred's campaign, and through that, in addition to Rube, met lots of other people, including a young African American activist named Mickey Leland, who shortly thereafter ran for the state legislature and was elected, and I had helped him get there, and Mickey and I became great personal friends and spent a lot of time together. And I was a groomsman in his wedding for instance, and things like that. And so we were great friends. And, you know, we got to start a program together that continues to this day. Mickey Leland Kibbutzim Internship Program. So the genesis of that was, Mickey had been to Israel on a couple of occasions, taken over by various Jewish groups – I think the first one was the ADL – as a[n] up-and-coming young politician, and he'd fallen in love with Israel. He was a very serious Catholic, and so he loved being in the Holy Land, and what he really was enamored of was the kibbutz concept –

FURMAN: Hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – of people living in kind of communal circumstances where, you know, if you wanted your child to take piano lessons, the kibbutz voted on whether or not to spend its money on your child taking piano lessons, and things like that. And he thought it was such a revolutionary way to live, that he thought it would be great to expose young people from his community, inner-city Houston, to that way of life. And so in 1980, we started this program. We set up a charity and raised money and started this program to send inner-city kids to Israel. And now, forty years later, it's still ongoing. And, you know, it's revolutionized lots of young people's lives. I mean, we've sent kids who've never been out of Texas, or never been on an airplane, and things like that, and the criteria for selection is perception of future leadership. And so we have a large, diverse board covering all aspects of Houston including, now, several of our former interns are now on the board. And so we interview and select kids every year. In fact, the hardest thing we do is decide which ten kids are going and which ones are not going. Because they're all very deserving of going. But–

FURMAN: Hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – it, you know, it's just been a fantastic program in terms of exposing kids to the world. Their perspective of the world changes dramatically once they've done that. Exposing them to the Holy Land, which they've read about in Bibles; exposing them to the state of Israel,

exposing them to the current conflict in the Middle East, and so forth. I mean, they, it's just transformed who they are as people.

FURMAN: Yeah. I think it's an incredible program that I suspect is not very well known outside of Houston, and perhaps even within Houston, you know, since Congressman Leland passed away, is less well known. But I think it's a really important story. Especially, you know, in our current moment when a lot of renewed attention is being paid to Black-Jewish relations. You know, your friendship with Mickey evolved at a time when Black-Jewish relations were not so good. Can you talk about that a little bit?

FRIEDMAN: Sure. Well, of course, Black-Jewish relationships have historically been very good. I mean, the Jewish community have always identified with the African American community and persecution. And so the early origins of the NAACP and organizations like that have had significant Jewish involvement in it. And, you know, by the late '60s, early '70s a lot of that had deteriorated as African American folks wanted to take over their own organizations and didn't want help from white people of any kind. And so relationships began to deteriorate because of that. Particularly with younger African Americans. And so my opportunity to be a friend of Mickey's, and his of mine, you know, I think really helped bridge a lot of those gaps and, through him, I became friends with lots of other African American politicians or business leaders. Spent some time on the board of Texas Southern University, the historically Black college here in town. And you know, became much more appreciative of what our African— the richness of our African American community here in Houston and what it's offered to the community.

FURMAN: Great. Can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with Mayor Bob Lanier?

FRIEDMAN: Yeah, so Bob Lanier was somebody I knew through politics, as well. And, got to know him. He's been a very successful banker and real estate developer in town. I had represented him on a handful of his business dealings, and when he ultimately ran for mayor and was elected, he put his assets into a blind trust so that he wouldn't be tempted to do things as mayor that could arguably be in his own best interest. And I was the trustee of that trust, so I ran his businesses for six years while he was the mayor.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: At that time we had two-year terms, and he ran for three different times and was elected at each time. Almost always by huge margins; he was an extremely popular mayor. Among other things, before he became mayor, he had been head of the Texas Highway Department for several years. He'd been head of the Metropolitan Transit Authority here, Metro here, for a few years. And, so he was very well known, very well regarded, and his boyhood hero was always Franklin Roosevelt although his business dealings made him, you know, lean towards Republicans. Houston mayors are elected on a nonpartisan basis, they don't run by party, and so he was able to bridge that gap and appeal to really both sides of the community.

FURMAN: Mm hmm. Great. Do you have a favorite Mayor Lanier story that you like to tell?

FRIEDMAN: No. Only that, you know, he– well I guess the one I would emphasize is the one about, his demanding that more minority contractors would be used on city businesses.

FURMAN: Hmm.

FRIEDMAN: And he had lots of conversations with business leaders at the time talking about their responsibility to take someone with whom they had worked, and had a good relationship, who happened to be African American –

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – and helping them start their own business, and using them to be the subcontractors on deals and so forth. Rather than working for them, to help them start their own business.

FURMAN: Yeah.

FRIEDMAN: And so he pushed very hard for that to happen, and it worked in numerous cases. Where people began to be able to build up their own equity and the businesses they own.

FURMAN: Yeah. Great. I'm realizing now that we forgot to talk about when Mickey Leland died.

FRIEDMAN: Sorry, I didn't hear that, Josh. Say it again?

FURMAN: I forgot to ask you about, you know, when Mickey Leland tragically died. Your memories of how you found out and its effect on you.

FRIEDMAN: Well, it was a very traumatic time for all of us. Mickey had been, one of his pet goals in life was to try to eradicate hunger around, in the US and around the world. And so he was the head of a Congressional committee on hunger, and was delivering supplies to E— remote Ethiopia when his plane crashed, and he and the other folks on board were killed. You know, there was several days of not knowing what had happened. The plane disappeared. And it took three or four days for them to actually find the wreckage. And, so there was a long time of people, you know, unsure of what exactly had happened.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: I remember it very vividly. I was actually in Biloxi, visiting my mother with my family. And, when the word, you know, finally came through, that Mickey had been lost, I got a call from his widow, Alison, who said they had found the plane and no one had survived. And, again, it was a very sad time. And it led to [a] very sad funeral. Although Mickey died doing what he would have wanted, what he wanted to do, and the way he would've wanted to die was helping, trying to help other people. And – also led to one of my least favorite experiences, in

that in Mickey's funeral, which was a very elaborate affair where Congress commandeered a couple of private airplanes and, I don't know, sixty or seventy members of Congress flew down to Houston for his funeral, was at the Texan Southern University, and, so I was one of the speakers, and they said to me, you know, "Here, here's your spot. You're gonna speak right after Jesse Jackson." To which I said, "I don't wanna speak right after Jesse Jackson. I'd like to speak before Jesse Jackson. Nobody wants to follow Jesse Jackson." But nonetheless, I had to. So I did the best I could under the circumstances.

FURMAN: Right. Yeah. No he was a special man, Mickey Leland, and his memory lives on in the internship that you, you know, continue to see through. Really quite –

FRIEDMAN: We're doing this in Mickey's memory, really, and to try to continue Mickey's memory. And it's interesting, you know, as the years roll by, the students that we interview are less and less aware of the name Mickey Leland, although there are several monuments to Mickey in town. Still, less and less aware of that. And, so part of what we do when we select these ten interns is, we run them through an education program before we put them on a plane and fly them off to Israel, including, sort of a Christian perspective on Israel, the current Middle East situation, the history of the region, but one of the things we talk about is Mickey. And, you know, who he was, and what he meant, and other, really African American leaders in Houston, over the years. And, so that's been very, very enlightening to people, too. Although frankly, now, the – when we started the program forty years ago, I would say on an average class, they were six African Americans, two Hispanics, one Anglo, and one something else, was kind of the average class. Although we didn't have any quotas in terms of who we were picking. Today it's probably four Hispanics and three African Americans and two Anglos and two Asians. Or, if that number adds up to ten.

FURMAN: Hmm.

FRIEDMAN: I mean, the composition of the people who go have changed dramatically. Partially because the 18th congressional district, which Mickey represented, and it's now represented by Congressmember Sheila Jackson Lee, has changed dramatically over that time, as well.

FURMAN: Right.

FRIEDMAN: It's branched out from being simply an inner-city district to a much broader district, including some parts of West Houston in it, as well.

FURMAN: Right. Sure. Kenny, can we talk a little bit more about your broader involvement in the Houston Jewish community? I know you've been involved with the local chapter of the American Jewish Committee. Can you talk about that a little bit?

FRIEDMAN: Sure. Actually, the American Jewish Committee was one of Rube Askanase's causes. He felt very strongly about it. And got me and lots of other young Jewish professionals in town involved in the American Jewish Committee. It always appealed to me because one of

the things that the American Jewish Committee had done was, there had been a Nazi Party march in Skokie, Illinois designed to go through Jewish neighborhoods in Illinois. And the American Jewish Committee had filed an amicus brief on behalf of the Nazi Party's right to do that. Which always appealed to me as sort of the way this country ought to work, and the way even interest groups ought to view how important our democratic institutions are. And so that kind of I don't know, sort of pragmatism, principled pragmatism, I guess I would call it always appealed to me. So I got very involved in the American Jewish Committee. I had become their local Houston chapter president, and then I became a regional president, which covered five states. I served on the national board of governors for several years and spent a fair amount of time in that capacity attending meetings, various meetings in New York and elsewhere. And, um –

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – it's always a very enlightening and rewarding experience for me.

FURMAN: And what were some of the key issues, you know, on the, either on the local scene, or the regional or national level during your tenure in leadership?

FRIEDMAN: Well, locally, all, it was almost always relationships with other communities and our community. And so American Jewish Committee spent an awful lot of time working on building relationships with Black and brown and Asian and other communities. Gay, and elsewise, that could be help— that the American Jewish Committee could be helpful to them in terms of trying to help them achieve where they wanted to go in our community here in Houston.

FURMAN: Hmm.

FRIEDMAN: Nationally it was, like every national organization at that time, probably dominated by Israel matters. But also antisemitism in the Soviet Union and elsewhere, that the American Jewish Committee was involved in trying to eradicate. American Jewish Committee works differently than other Jewish organizations; it's a very much behind-the-scenes, quiet advocacy group that doesn't seek publicity or headlines but tries to make things happen behind the scenes. And, as I say, over the years they've been extraordinarily effective in that.

FURMAN: Right. Very good. We should move on and talk about your involvement with the Harris County Houston Sports Authority.

FRIEDMAN: Okay, well, you know, I played a lot of sports growing up; sports have been a big part of my life. And, so when the Harris County Houston Sports Authority was started which I guess I'll take a step back and explain how that came about. So, while Bob Lanier was mayor the Houston Oilers left town because the city refused to build them a new stadium. The county had recently spent a fair amount of money on refurbishing the Astrodome, where they played but they wanted their own stadium; they didn't want a multipurpose stadium. And Bob Lanier uttered the memorable lines of, you know, "Why should Joe Sixpack have to pay for a stadium

that's gonna be controlled by a billionaire and played in by millionaires?" And, you know, what's the equity of that? And, so the Oilers left town. They got a fabulous deal from Nashville which in addition to paying for their moving, guaranteed them ten years' worth of sellouts in the stadium, so that if they didn't sell the tickets, the city bought the tickets. So it was a great deal for Bud Adams, the owner of the Oilers. But they left, and, there, you know, there was a fair amount of conversation about maybe the Rockets or the Astros leaving as well.

FURMAN: Hmm.

FRIEDMAN: Also who began looking for their own stadium. So, Lanier, who, as I said earlier, was very smart and very savvy in politics put together the notion of the Harris County Houston Sports Authority and sold it in Austin to the legislature, and got the legislature to pass it. And basically it is that the stadiums here in town are financed by bonds that have been issued by the Sports Authority. It's a governmental entity that can issue its own bonds.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: But the bonds are paid off by hotel/motel tax, car rental tax, and rental from the teams who lease the stadiums. So that there's literally no local taxpayer involvement in it.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: And, which I thought was an absolutely brilliant way to do that. When it began, Lanier asked me to chair it. I told him I didn't have the time to do that. I was right in the middle of major legal issues representing several matters that were bubbling to the surface, and so I didn't have time to do it. But, a few years later, you know, his successor, Lee Brown asked me to at least go on the board, if not chair it, and a couple years after that, I became the chairman of it. So I've been chairman of it for about twelve years now, and it's been immensely rewarding in addition to building and overseeing the bonds that were issued to build the stadiums we've kinda morphed into a sports marketing operation for Harris County.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: So that, it, sporting events that want a place to have venues, we go out and hustle and try to bring them to town. And we've been very successful in doing that. Everything from, you know, the AAU Junior Olympics to, Olympic boxing trials to, we were the host city for the Olympic marathon trials 10 years ago. Things like that. So anything that brings people to town, puts people's heads on beds and rear ends in cars, is good for us to help us pay off our bonds. And it's good for the community, because it, you know, multiplies the impact of those out-of-city dollars. So it's been a really successful endeavor in those terms. Brought lots of business to town. Revitalized the east side of downtown Houston by building the baseball stadium and the basketball arena on the east side of downtown Houston.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: Added, you know, millions of dollars to the local coffers because of the taxes being paid by businesses over there. And, it's been a really good thing for the community.

FURMAN: Yeah. So we're doing this interview in the, you know, the last days of 2020, and the COVID pandemic is still raging, and I'm sure this has had an effect on, you know, all of the sports teams and businesses that you just mentioned. From the perspective of the sports authority, how has this year been, and what do you think the outlook is looking moving forward?

FRIEDMAN: Well, this year's been challenging for the Sports Authority, along with everybody else. I mean, we've had, of course, numerous cancellations of events that were planned to be in Houston, and which we were involved with bringing to Houston. So hotel/motel tax collections, car rental collections are off dramatically from prior years.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: At the beginning of this, we realized that this might last a while, and so we did a new bond issue where we, in effect moved out obligations for the next three years to the back end of our bond obligations so that we are very comfortable, that we can meet all of our ongoing obligations, and bought ourselves two or three years of running room –

FURMAN: Hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – to get collections back up to where they otherwise should be. So we feel very good about that. We think we did the responsible, right thing to do in that regard, and, you know, we're fairly confident that we'll quickly get back to where we had been prior to this, as soon as the world returns to some semblance of normalcy.

FURMAN: Which we hope is, is not too far away.

FRIEDMAN: We certainly hope that.

FURMAN: Yeah. It's, boy, is it sorely needed.

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

FURMAN: So, let's, you know, move now, on the theme of sports, talking about, your family a little bit more, and your son, Andrew whose –

FRIEDMAN: Sure.

FURMAN: – Los Angeles Dodgers just won the World Series just a couple months ago.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

FURMAN: Tell me a little bit about Andrew's involvement in sports and how he got into the world of sports management and running a baseball team.

FRIEDMAN: So I have five children all of whom are wonderful, and eight grandchildren, who are even better than their parents, of course. And the oldest two are girls; the next three are boys. Andrew is number four of the five. And, Andrew had always been interested in sports really from the beginning. And sports in general, and baseball in particular.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: He very quickly became quite a student of the game and was a very good player himself. He, in high school, he was asked to play on a US all-star team that played in China in a tournament in China. And so he went to Tulane on a baseball scholarship. Significantly better player than was his father. And again, like me, about halfway through, he realized he wasn't gonna be a Major League player, and so spent, you know, much more time paying attention in school, and ended up doing really well, and ended up on Wall Street.

FURMAN: Kenny, he had gone to Tulane on a baseball scholarship just as you had, right?

FRIEDMAN: That's correct.

FURMAN: Okay.

FRIEDMAN: That's correct.

FURMAN: So he did play at Tulane, and then –

FRIEDMAN: Yeah. He did play at Tulane. He was an outfielder. And, hurt a lot of the time, but various injuries of one kind or another, but, yeah, he did. And he ended up on Wall Street at Bear Stearns, the investment bank in Bear Stearns, where he did extremely well, and then joined a venture capital firm in New York for a few years. But had always had an ongoing interest in baseball, and had spent a lot of that time sort of looking around for other baseball opportunities. Opportunities in baseball of one kind or another.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: And was very fortunate while in New York, he met a fella [who] had been at Goldman Sachs who was from Dallas, and was also a big baseball enthusiast. And, that guy, whose name is Matt Silverman, said to Andrew, one day, you know, “I've got this fella who'd work with me who's looking to buy a baseball team, and your baseball background, you know, I ought to introduce you to him. Maybe you can be of help to him." So he introduced him to a man named Stu Silverman, and so, I'm sorry. Stu Sternberg.

FURMAN: Stu Sternberg.

FRIEDMAN: And so Stu Sternberg, who eventually bought the Tampa Bay Rays. And when he bought them, Matt and Andrew were his investment bankers on the deal, and so they handled that deal for him. And when he bought the Rays, the, the managing general partner of the former ownership group said he wanted to do it for three more years, but that as part of the deal, he would agree to sell in three years. But Sternberg would send down two people to protect his investment, a financial guy and a baseball guy. So Matt was the financial guy, and Andrew was the baseball guy. Both of them left significant amounts of money on the table and moved to Tampa, Florida. And Andrew's role was assistant to the GM, or some such, and not surprisingly, the arrangement with the former owner lasted about a year, not three years, and, when they finally booted him out, Andrew became the general manager of the Tampa Bay Rays at age twenty-seven.

FURMAN: Wow.

FRIEDMAN: And so as I tell everybody, he got a lot of publicity, most of which was, "Why would anybody turn a baseball team over to this kid?" But he was fortunate, it worked out well for him, the team did really well. Ended up in the World Series one year, but every year were competitive. Even though their payroll was a fraction of other teams' payrolls, particularly in the American League East, which is where they played, because both the Yankees and the Red Sox were in the American League East, but Tampa played 'em close every year. They were competitive every single year, and –

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – after almost ten years of that, Andrew was hired away by the L.A. Dodgers, in late 2014, to go take over their team. So he became the president of baseball operations for the Dodgers, and that's where he's been since.

FURMAN: Right. And they've had a really incredible run of success, finally culminating in a World Series. And of course, in 2017 the World Series featured the Houston Astros and the Los Angeles Dodgers, and so you –

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

FURMAN: – probably more than any other person on the planet, found yourself in something of a predicament, right? You're on the board, maybe even the chairman of the –

FRIEDMAN: [inaudible]**** –

FURMAN: – Harris County Houston Sports Authority, and then your son is the general manager of the other team. So how did that play out?

FRIEDMAN: Well, it was, as you pointed out, it was a difficult time for us. And as I've told a lot of people, my son created my fifteen minutes of fame, because I got interviewed by everybody, right? From, from the New York Times on down about, you know, "What in the world are you doing here? You're, you're the chairman of the board of the entity that's the landlord of these stadiums, and yet your son is running the other team, and how are you dealing with this?" And it kind of evolved into an answer, which basically went along the lines of, "Look, I'm a lifelong Houston Astros fan and a thirty-plus-year season ticket holder. It would be fabulous for this community for the Astros to win this World Series. But I'm gonna root for the team that pays my son." Which, everybody went, "Oh, yeah. I get that. I understand that." So, Sports Authority has a suite in the stadium, which we use to entertain dignitaries and things like that, and so before the World Series games in Houston my wife and I would go to that suite about an hour, hour and a half before game time and would spend time as the hosts in the suite entertaining people and visiting with folks, and about the second inning, we would slip out and go into the stands and sit with the Dodger families, where our tickets were, and watch the rest of the game from there. And so I tell people all the time, my wife and I were the only people in the stadium that we had no colors of either team on. We were completely neutral. And –

FURMAN: I was gonna ask if you had your Astros jersey and your Dodgers hat on, or how you managed it. And of course, you know, that, that series went seven games, and the Astros ultimately prevailed, and it was later revealed that the Astros had been engaged in an elaborate, sign-stealing scheme, which involves putting a camera in centerfield of Minute Maid Park to steal the opposing team's –

FRIEDMAN: Right. Right.

FURMAN: – pitching signs. I mean, talk just as a baseball fan, I'm interested in, you know, your thoughts on the scandal, and how significant you think it is.

FRIEDMAN: Well I think it's really a tragedy for the Astros organization. And for the players. The Astros were a great team; they didn't need to do that in order to be successful. You know, I'm not quite sure how it evolved, but clearly at the end of the day, they were doing things that were well beyond the pale, and everyone in baseball knew it was well beyond the pale. I suspect that history is not going to be kind to the Astros. I mean, I suspect they will end up being much like the 1919 Chicago Black Sox –

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – in memory of people because of that of that cheating scandal. So, you know, it's just sad for me as an Astros fan that they have to live with that. And the players have to live with that, for this period of time. I think the most telling thing, to me, was not the Dodgers' reaction to it, or even the Yankees', whom the Astros had knocked out in the round before the World Series. Both of them were unhappy when they discovered what had gone on. But it was the other players around the league. I mean, the quotes from other players on other teams who weren't involved in that, in those playoffs that year were very, very damning, um –

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – for the Astros. And, I mean, I think that's the indication that most people have taken away, about how difficult that situation was.

FURMAN: Right. Yeah. Well, the Astros did nearly make it back to the World Series, in 2020 with a new manager, and, but they were defeated by Andrew's old team –

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

FURMAN: – the Tampa Bay Rays, who met the Los Angeles Dodgers in the World Series, of all things.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

FURMAN: And all of this was unfolding, you know, during the pandemic, so you don't have 30,000, you know, screaming fans hanging on every pitch, you know, live, as it's unfolding. So tell us about, you know, your perspective on, on this baseball postseason, you know, as the Dodgers are making their run back to the World Series and ultimately, you know, triumphing. Did you, did you go to any of the games? Were you just watching at home? What were your conversations with Andrew like as it was all taking place?

FRIEDMAN: Oh, you know, it was a difficult year. It was great that the Astros almost made it back to the World Series. I mean, again, they didn't have a terrific year, but they had a great playoff run. And so, you know, it would've been nice – I think – for the Astros to make it back. Although I've had friends who've said, "You know, it probably wouldn't have been so nice, because all of the national stories would've been about the 2017 World Series." And it would've just brought it all back up again. So, I mean, you know, maybe it worked out well for the Astros in that regard.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: But it was difficult for us, again the family, because we were all still Tampa Bay Rays fans from Andrew's time down there, and his relationships down there with all those folks who were like a family together, in Tampa, and you know, we still feel very positively about all of those people. It was interesting, because – I can't remember whether this was the Wall Street Journal or the Times, but it had an article when there were four teams left, the Astros, the Rays, the Dodgers, and the Braves. The other three teams' general managers had all worked for Andrew at one time. And so, you know, he really had his hand in all four of the teams in the finals for the championship. So that was a nice tribute to him.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: But the actual games themselves were played in Arlington, you know, just a couple hundred miles up the road. But we did not go. Primarily because the teams, and the families of the teams, were quarantined in a hotel in the Arlington area. So that, while we could've gone to the games, we couldn't visit with our kids or grandkids while we were there. We could wave at 'em across the parking lot or something, and that just didn't seem to have much appeal to my wife and I. So we did not go. Our other two sons, our oldest son and our youngest son, both went to several of the games there.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: And both had the same report, which was neither of them felt terribly comfortable in the stadium. Because all the, everyone had to wear a mask to get into the stadium. Once inside, and once people began drinking masks went away and spacing went away, and –

FURMAN: Mm.

FRIEDMAN: – it was a very uncomfortable situation for them. And so, that just confirmed our decision was correct not to go to the games. But it was hard. It's hard watching 'em on television and not being there. Did talk to Andrew several times during that time, and, you know, his goal was to eradicate the thirty-two year drought in L.A. from winning a World Series. Last time they had won was 1988. And so, you know, they were thrilled they were able to do it. I think he's been quoted several times as saying actually it was a feeling more of relief than it was of euphoria to get it done.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: But they were excited to get it done, and as you know, I mean, playoffs in any sport are relatively random, but in baseball, more random than others. Because, you know, in baseball, the best teams win sixty percent of their games, and the worst teams win forty percent of their games.

FURMAN: Right.

FRIEDMAN: So if you theoretically put the best team with the worst team and played a five- game series, the best team should win three, and the worst team should win two, right? So you put two sixty percent-winning teams together and it's impossible to handicap that. You just –

FURMAN: Right.

FRIEDMAN: – can't. So because playoffs are so random in baseball generally, you know, it's quite a relief they finally get there.

FURMAN: Yeah. No, I'm sure. Hopefully you'll have a chance to celebrate one in person one of these days.

FRIEDMAN: No question. No question. We're anxiously awaiting an opportunity to fly out to L.A. and – or maybe to Phoenix for spring training. We don't know yet.

FURMAN: Yeah. I guess, right. Spring training could be around the corner. I don't know how the season will be, you know, affected, but that would be –

FRIEDMAN: Yeah, no one knows yet. They don't know whether they're gonna start spring training on time, in mid-February, or push it back and therefore push the season back and have fewer games again –

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – you know, probably more than the sixty they played last year, but less than the 162 that a normal season would have. No one really knows yet. They're still sort of feeling their way along with the virus, and with the negotiations, frankly, between the Players' Association and the owners as to how that all will unfold.

FURMAN: Yeah. We'll have to, we'll have to wait and see, but I imagine we'll find out soon.

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

FURMAN: And then, and then what about, you know, you and Anne, during this pandemic, since last March, how has it affected you personally? You know, these last several months? What has this been like for you?

FRIEDMAN: Well, you know,we've tried to be as careful as we can be in terms of protecting ourselves during this time. We've actually been exposed four different times to someone who subsequently turned up positive, so we've had four different tests after those exposures. Fortunately, we’re negative each of those times.

FURMAN: Right.

FRIEDMAN: So just goes to show, you know, no matter how much you try, you don't necessarily always accomplish that. It's been a great time for us in many ways. We've had a lot of opportunity to spend time together; it's been great. We've seen more movies on TV in a year than we've seen in, you know, thirty years prior to that. But, you know, it's just, it's been fine. It's been fine. We're both working from home. And, you know it's been a really nice time. I’m sorry we don't get to spend more time with the children, although we have evolved into a system of visiting with the kids from, and grandkids from time to time. We have meals outside –

FURMAN: Hmm.

FRIEDMAN: – in our backyard with every family gets its own table, and so we make sure we're socially distanced and things like that. Every family goes into the kitchen and gets the food and brings it back out you know, one family at a time, kind of thing. And at least so far –

FURMAN: [inaudible]

FRIEDMAN: – it's worked just fine. So we feel good about that. We've also done that with friends a few times, too. Same kind of thing.

FURMAN: Mm hmm.

FRIEDMAN: So socially distanced backyard dining.

FURMAN: Socially distant backyard dining is in.

FRIEDMAN: Yeah.

FURMAN: And how lucky we are that we live in Houston, and you can do this in December.

FRIEDMAN: Absolutely correct.

FURMAN: Exactly.

FRIEDMAN: Absolutely correct. We just got a note this morning from some really dear friends who want to have a picnic in their backyard tomorrow night, in fact. Right? So, because the weather's supposed to turn bad on Wednesday. So we're gonna go have a picnic in their backyard tomorrow night. So –

FURMAN: That’s nice.

FRIEDMAN: – we're very fortunate to be in a city where we can do that.

FURMAN: Yeah. Don't have to worry about blizzards, and –

FRIEDMAN: Right.

FURMAN: – terrible, terrible weather. Kenny, as you look back over a long and distinguished career, both in the legal field and public service, right, being on the board of so many great civic organizations, I'm curious to hear what do you consider to be your crowning achievement, or your greatest accomplishment? What are you proudest of?

FRIEDMAN: Thanks, Josh. I, you know, I've been very fortunate, being in Houston, Texas when I have been here. As I said earlier it's made a lot of successes out of a lot of very ordinary folks, including me. And I've really been lucky to be managing partner of major law firms. I've

been the in-house general counsel of major corporations over the years. I've been on lots of different civic boards; I've been on lots of different Jewish boards. But, you know, I really think my proudest accomplishments are, you know, really twofold. One are my children. I have five wonderful children. All of whom have grown into fabulous human beings, and I'm so proud of all of them. And they've done an even better job of raising my grandchildren, my eight grandchildren. So that's one thing. The second is, I've been fortunate, I've been married twice, and both my first wife, Barbara, and my second wife, Anne, have been great spouses for me. Anne and I have been together thirty years, and, she's a fabulous helpmate and partner in everything I do, and I'm really fortunate to be married to her. She has a wonderful sense of humor and a great outlook on life. She has both a law degree and a PhD in psychology, and she teaches meditation as a profession. And so she's always got the right perspective on almost any situation. So I'm a fortunate guy to have her in my life.

FURMAN: Great. Thank you so much, Kenny, for your time today. I really appreciate – this is a fascinating interview. It touched on so many different topics in Southern Jewish history, Houston history, and I'm sure people will be watching and learning from it for years to come. Thank you so much.

FRIEDMAN: Thank you, Josh. Appreciate it very much. Take care.

FURMAN: You bet.

FRIEDMAN: Bye bye.