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Monday Volume 680 21 September 2020 No. 104 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday 21 September 2020 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2020 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 603 21 SEPTEMBER 2020 604 Jeremy Quin: We are proud to support many British House of Commons companies and the entire UK defence sector. Something like £19.2 billion was given to UK companies in 2018-19 Monday 21 September 2020 to deliver on our defence needs. This has been brought out through our defence and security industrial strategy— DSIS—of which I look forward to sharing more details The House met at half-past Two o’clock with the House when it is delivered later this year. Armed Forces Capability: Future Security Threats PRAYERS Mr Gagan Mohindra (South West Hertfordshire) (Con): [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] What steps his Department is taking to ensure that Virtual participation in proceedings commenced armed forces capability is adequate to tackle future (Order, 4 June). security threats. [906250] [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] Joy Morrissey (Beaconsfield) (Con): What steps his Department is taking to ensure that armed forces capability is adequate to tackle future security threats. [906256] Oral Answers to Questions The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): The Ministry of Defence is examining its capability requirements through the integrated review, guided by DEFENCE Defence Intelligence’s understanding of the threats we face now and in the future. We are examining the The Secretary of State was asked— evolving doctrines, structures and capabilities of our adversaries to ensure that we develop the capabilities Defence Helicopters: Domestic Manufacture required to deliver the operations of tomorrow. Chris Loder (West Dorset) (Con): What steps he is Mr Mohindra: The defence industry employs tens of taking to support the domestic manufacture of defence thousands of people. Long-term investment in defence helicopters. [906249] will drive economic growth and support highly paid, highly skilled jobs, all of which is in our national The Minister for Defence Procurement (Jeremy Quin): interest. Will my right hon. Friend work with the Treasury The Department is committed to supporting UK helicopters to ensure that the defence industry is central to plans for and the defence industry more broadly. Over the next our economic recovery and that an ambitious strategy decade, we plan to spend over £180 billion on equipment is reflected in the integrated review? and equipment support, which currently includes around £10.9 billion on helicopter capability. Mr Wallace: I am always happy to work with the Treasury on any number of subjects. Defence’s Chris Loder: Many of my constituents in West Dorset multibillion-pound investment in the UK powers the work for Leonardo Helicopters in Yeovil, where skills, innovation and capabilities that keep this country redundancies have recently been announced. That is of safe, secure and competitive. As a Lancashire MP, great concern to me, my constituents and those of my Mr Speaker, you will recognise how important the hon. Friend the Member for Yeovil (Mr Fysh). What is industry is to the skills base in our constituencies. the Minister doing to support the company? Defence is leading a review of the defence and security industrial strategy to identify steps to ensure a competitive Jeremy Quin: I share my hon. Friend’s concern. I am and world-class industrial base that delivers investment, pleased to reassure him that those redundancies do not employment and prosperity across the whole United relate to any changes of plan on Ministry of Defence Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. work, but rather to a decision taken by the company to ensure that it remains on a financially strong footing. Joy Morrissey: Following recent media reports, what We continue to work actively with Leonardo on its more can my right hon. Friend say on the role that excellent Merlin and Wildcat helicopters, and I am Defence Intelligence plays in assessing threats and our pleased to support its export drives, including earlier ability to counter them? Will he consider meeting me this month in person, in Poland. about an issue concerning a former MOD intelligence training site in Beaconsfield? Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab) [V]: Will the Minister ask the Secretary of State to step MrWallace:DefenceIntelligenceusesits4,500exceptionally up to the plate and match the commitment made by the talented staff to collect, analyse and exploit intelligence. shadow Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the By working internationally and with other Departments, Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), to it is able to judge today’s threat and tomorrow’s and procure “built in Britain”, hence ensuring that there are ensure that that feeds into the future design under the no redundancies in West Dorset, and to support the integrated review. awarding of the £1.5 billion fleet solid support vessels contract to a British consortium, to recruit and retain John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab): May I 2,500 UK jobs,and to do so for the many other shovel-ready start by paying tribute to the forces men and women defence projects, to support British industry, British who are working to help the country through the covid workers and the British economy to lead us through this crisis? We may soon need to turn to them again, in the covid recession? face of this renewed pandemic threat. 605 Oral Answers 21 SEPTEMBER 2020 Oral Answers 606 On the integrated review, I recognise that the cycle of the Labour party’s ambition on foreign policy and defence decisions does not match the cycle of political security; the previous Labour party leadership’s ambition elections. Britain still benefits from the skills, technologies for foreign policy was surrender. and capabilities at the heart of Labour’s Drayson review 15 years ago. The Opposition want the Government to Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP): get this integrated review right, but when this is the I echo the comments of the shadow Secretary of State, third Conservative review in just 10 years, how will the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne the Defence Secretary avoid making the big mistakes of (John Healey), about the armed forces and the job they the last two? are doing in the current crisis. We in Scotland know all about over-ambition and Mr Wallace: The mistake of all the defence reviews— under-delivery when it comes to the Ministry of Defence, including the 1998 one, which was exceptionally good, because six years ago we were promised a frigate factory, and Lord Drayson’s review—was that they were not but that promise was broken, and we were promised matched by funding. The Labour party had exactly the 12,500 regular troops in Scotland, but the number has same problem at its last review, which is why in 2010 we never even come close to hitting 10,000. Is it not time, if inherited a black hole of billions of pounds, and indeed, we are to avoid this cycle of over-promising and under- there is a black hole now, identified by the National delivery, to move towards multi-year defence agreements Audit Office. This is not unique to any political party. that bring together the Secretary of State’s Department, Selective picking of the last two reviews, when I could the Treasury and parties in this House to prevent the probably talk about the last five, makes no difference. £13 billion equipment-plan black hole from growing The key is to ensure that our review is driven by threat. ever further? The threat defines what we need to do to keep us safe at home, and the ambition defines how far we wish to go. Mr Wallace: I hear what the hon. Gentleman says. Of All that then needs to be matched with Treasury funding. course, he may have missed the Type 31 frigate and the If we are over-ambitious, underfunded or both, we will Type 26 ships that are being made in Scotland. He may in a few years’ time end up in the position we are in have missed Faslane, although I know they do not want today and have been in the past. It has been my to talk about that in the Scottish National party. He determination to support the men and women of the may have missed the recent basing of the P-8s in Kinloss. armed forces the shadow Secretary of State talks about There will be more investment and more units placed in by making sure that we give them something we can Scotland, because we believe that the United Kingdom afford and tailoring our ambition to match our pocket. is the best union in this country to deliver security for all its citizens. We do not believe in separation; we do John Healey: Of course, the Labour Government not believe in putting borders between our two countries; invested in defence at a higher rate each year than that and we do not believe in trying to kid-on people in of the previous 10 years, but the Secretary of State is Scotland that they will get something for nothing with a right about the big aims and challenges. He has previously Scottish navy or Scottish armed forces. We are stronger described the 2015 review as over-ambitious and when we are together—that is the United Kingdom and underfunded, and to over-promise and under-deliver that is what will continue to invest in.