Summary of the 30Th Plenary Session, March 2005
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BRITISH-IRISH INTER-PARLIAMENTARY BODY COMHLACHT IDIR-PHARLAIMINTEACH NA BREATAINE AGUS NA hÉIREANN THIRTIETH PLENARY CONFERENCE 7 and 8 March 2005 Bundoran, Donegal OFFICIAL REPORT (Final Revised Edition) (Produced by the British-Irish Parliamentary Reporting Association) This report has been produced by the British-Irish Parliamentary Reporting Association. Any queries should be addressed to: The Editor Room 248 Parliament Buildings Stormont Belfast BT4 3XX Tel: 028 90521135 e-mail [email protected] IN ATTENDANCE CO-CHAIRMEN Mr Pat Carey TD Mr David Winnick MP MEMBERS AND ASSOCIATE MEMBERS Mr Harry Barnes MP Senator Geraldine Feeney Senator Martin Mansergh Mr Johnny Brady TD Mr Mike German AM Senator Paschal Mooney Mr Kevin Brennan MP Mr Jim Glennon TD Mr Arthur Morgan TD Rt Hon the Lord Brooke of Sutton The Lord Glentoran CBE DL Senator Francie O’Brien Mandeville CH Mr John Griffiths AM Mr William O’Brien MP Hon Tony Brown SHK Mr Robin Harper MSP Mr Jim O’Keeffe TD Mr John Carty TD Senator Brian Hayes Senator Mary O’Rourke Senator Paul Coghlan Mr John Hume MP Mr Chris Ruane MP Dr Jerry Cowley TD Ms Cecilia Keaveney TD Mr Joe Sherlock TD Mr Seymour Crawford TD Mr Séamus Kirk TD Mr Iain Smith MSP Deputy Maurice Dubras Dr Dai Lloyd AM The Lord Smith of Clifton The Lord Dubs Senator Joe McHugh Deputy Mike Torode Mr John Ellis TD Mr Michael McMahon MSP Mr Murray Tosh MSP Mr Jeff Ennis MP Mr Kevin McNamara MP Mr Robert Walter MP Mrs Margaret Ewing MSP Mr Andrew Mackinlay MP Senator Diarmuid Wilson ALSO IN ATTENDANCE (FOR ALL OR PART OF PROCEEDINGS) The Minister for Agriculture and Food, Ms Mary Coughlan TD Mr John Swinney MSP STEERING COMMITTEE Co-Chairmen Mr Pat Carey TD Mr David Winnick MP Members Mr Kevin McNamara MP Mr Séamus Kirk TD Mr Michael Mates MP Mr Seymour Crawford TD Hon Tony Brown SHK Mr Murray Tosh MSP OFFICIALS Joint Clerks Ms Alda Barry, British Clerk Mr John Hamilton, Irish Clerk Delegation Clerks Ms Alison Dickie (Scotland) Mr Peter Kellam (Wales) Committee Clerks to the Body Committee A: Sovereign Matters Ms Maeve Clery Mr Huw Yardley Committee B: European Affairs Mr Mike Clark Mr David Keating Committee C: Economic Ms Maeve Clery Mr Mike Hennessy Committee D: Environmental and Social Ms Audrey Nelson Mr David Keating Secretariat Mrs Veronica Carr Sir Michael Davies KCB Miss Amanda Hay Media Adviser Mr Mike Burns British-Irish Parliamentary Mr Gerry Dunne Reporting Association reporting team Mr Patrick Marsh for 30th Plenary Meeting Mr Ger O’Donovan Mr Cameron Smith Ms Nia Thomas Mr David Weir BRITISH-IRISH since become Minister of State in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment; and Senator INTER-PARLIAMENTARY Diarmuid Wilson has replaced Mr Conor Lenihan TD, BODY who has gone on to become Minister of State with Special Responsibility for Overseas Development and Human Rights in the Department of Foreign Affairs. Senator Michael Kitt replaces Senator Diarmuid Wilson as an Associate Member, while Mr Trevor Sargent TD COMHLACHT replaces Mr Paddy McHugh TD as an Associate IDIR-PHARLAIMINTEACH Member. From the Isle of Man, Mr Donald Gelling and Mr Edgar Quine have been replaced by the Hon Tony NA BREATAINE AGUS NA Brown and Mr Edmund Lowey as full and Associate HÉIREANN Members respectively. Members will be delighted to hear that Donald Gelling has been appointed Chief Minister of the Isle of Man Government. Therefore THIRTIETH once Members have attended meetings of the Body, it PLENARY CONFERENCE is onwards and upwards for them. I should inform the Body that, in accordance with rule 2(a), the following Associate Members have accepted the invitation of the Steering Committee to Monday 7 March 2005 assume the powers and responsibilities of Members for the whole of the session: from Ireland, Senator Paul Coghlan and Senator Geraldine Feeney; from the The Body met at 9.33 am. United Kingdom, Mr Kevin Brennan MP; from Scotland, Mr Michael McMahon MSP and Mr Robin Harper MSP; and from the States of Jersey, Deputy Maurice Dubras. I should also inform Members that at the conclusion PLENARY BUSINESS of item 4 there will be a group photograph at 3.30 pm. I know that some people are under pressure for time, but The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): Good we should try to be on time for that, if at all possible. morning, Colleagues. It is time to begin. I therefore call the Body to order and declare it now in public session. I welcome you all to Bundoran; I hope that you had a pleasant trip here and that you will enjoy your ADOPTION OF PROPOSED stay. It is a great honour for me to have been appointed PROGRAMME OF BUSINESS to the Body and to join so many distinguished parliamentarians from these islands. If Members will The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): I remind bear with me while I stumble through the procedures I will Members that this morning they received a copy of the do my best to accommodate everybody. My Co-Chairman, proposed order of business, and I ask them to note the Mr David Winnick MP, and I look forward to a useful revised wording of the political motion. That wording plenary. I have no doubt that, in these important times, has changed somewhat from that in the draft that was the Body will hear some significant contributions. circulated to Members earlier this week. Before we begin, there are several housekeeping I move that the proposed order of business be matters that I must mention. First, mobile phones must adopted. be switched off; not only do they interfere with the debate, but they interfere with the electronics. Secondly, if at Programme of Business agreed. all possible, Members who need to read newspapers should do so in the foyer outside. Finally, an important issue that I must remind Members of is that the proceedings of the Body do not attract parliamentary privilege. Several new Members have been appointed since the Body last met. I have replaced Mr Brendan Smith TD, who has gone on to become Minister of State in the Department of Agriculture and Food; Mr John Carty TD has replaced Mr Tony Killeen TD, who has 1 Monday 7 March 2005 FURTHER PLENARY BUSINESS Mr Kevin McNamara MP: I will just go back outside. The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): My Tribute to Members Co-Chairman David Winnick would like to say some- thing about the Members who will not be returning. The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): It would The Co-Chairman (Mr David Winnick MP): I be extremely helpful if those who wish to speak in the echo Mary O’Rourke’s kind words about the three debate on the political motion and who have not British Colleagues who are retiring. Kevin McNamara already given their names to the Clerks could do so as was for quite some time Shadow Secretary of State for soon as possible or could otherwise indicate to the Northern Ireland, and I think we all would agree that Chair that they wish to speak. Although I do not want he played a significant role in the vast improvement in to be unduly restrictive with time, the Steering Committee relations between our two countries. Kevin has played has in mind that Members who are opening and an important role in other matters, not least in human closing debates should speak for about seven minutes rights. He and I sometimes disagree — not, I hope, on and others for about four. Does that sound reasonable? human rights, but on aspects of dealing with terrorism Before I move on to the motion, Senator O’Rourke — but he has been a significant force in the House of wishes to say a word or two, but I shall not pre-empt Commons for almost 39 years, and we will certainly what she wishes to say. miss him there. Senator Mary O’Rourke: Thank you, Co-Chairman. Bill O’Brien was for a time one of Kevin’s Colleagues You talked about people being elevated and moving on the Opposition Front Bench. Bill has been an active upwards, and I should like to congratulate you on that. Member of the House of Commons, as has Harry Barnes. Your party group is very elevated this morning; you Harry has at times taken a line different from that of look splendid. other left-wing members of the parliamentary Labour Party over Northern Ireland. Some would say he that I am on Committee D, of which Kevin McNamara he has not been proved wrong. All three Colleagues MP has been an inspired chairman. I understand that have played their parts in this Body and in the House he and others, whom I shall mention later, will not be of Commons, and we shall certainly miss them. standing in the UK general election, which might take place in May. On behalf of Committee D and on behalf Members: Hear, hear. [Applause.] of Members here, I should like to pay tribute to Kevin The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): If I may, I McNamara for his sterling service to the British-Irish would like to pay tribute to another Member of the Inter-Parliamentary Body. Body who will be standing down — John Hume, whose I know that many Members have been in the Body contribution to the Body, to Irish parliamentary debate for longer than I, but, because of my close involvement and to European understanding has been phenomenal. with him on Committee D, I wanted to pay a particular He probably has taken more risks than any other tribute to him.