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IICSA Inquiry Roman Catholic Church Investigation Wider Hearing 30 October 2019

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IICSA Inquiry Roman Catholic Church Investigation Wider Hearing 30 October 2019 IICSA Inquiry Roman Catholic Church Investigation Wider Hearing 30 October 2019 1 Wednesday, 30 October 2019 1 Claver College, to give it its formal name, in 1963? 2 (10.15 am) 2 A. Correct. 3 THE CHAIR: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Day 3 of 3 Q. Can you just give us a little background as to how it 4 this public hearing. Ms Carey? 4 was you ended up at Mirfield? 5 MS CAREY: Good morning, chair, good morning, panel. Can 5 A. I was at the primary school in -- [redacted] Primary 6 I ask, please, that the witness be sworn? 6 School in Manchester -- 7 WITNESS RC-A49 (sworn) 7 Q. Can I stop you there? It is quite important. We don't 8 Examination by MS CAREY 8 need the names of particular schools or anything like 9 MS CAREY: I think, for the purposes of your evidence this 9 that. That's for your protection, A49, as much as 10 morning, you are going to be known by the cipher A49. 10 anything else. I suspect, at this stage, we don't need 11 I know it is a little impersonal, but there are good 11 to stop the feed, but if you just say "the school", "my 12 reasons for that, as I am sure you will understand. 12 school", "my family", things like that, we will avoid 13 A. I do. 13 any risk of you being identified. So you were at 14 Q. May I start with you this morning, please, A49, in 14 primary school? 15 relation to a little bit of background. Is this right: 15 A. I was at primary school and we had a visitation from 16 I think you were born in the 1950s? 16 a missionary priest. Can I say his name? 17 A. I was, yes. 17 Q. If it is necessary, but it probably isn't. 18 Q. From a Catholic family? 18 A. It is relevant. His name was actually Father 19 A. Very strong Catholic family. Irish Catholic family. 19 Sean Russell. And he came to the primary school and he 20 Q. I think we can probably hear from your accent. And 20 gave us a talk on the missions. His aim was to recruit 21 Catholic education? 21 young boys to go to the seminary, train as missionary 22 A. Yes, a Christian Brothers school in Ireland, before 22 priests to serve in the missions. They had missions in 23 I left to go to -- travelled over to England, the family 23 Africa, Asia, and basically within quite a few countries 24 moved in the early '60s. 24 throughout the world. 25 Q. I think it is that you started at Mirfield, St Peter 25 He showed us slides of very exciting places, Page 1 Page 2 1 animals, beautiful scenery, and painted a wonderful 1 worked there. I am going to break that down for you. 2 picture. He also talked about the life of the college: 2 I'd like to ask you firstly about the priest 3 it was a family unit, it was exciting, we would have 3 ciphered as RC-F339 and what happened to you in relation 4 days out, you know, walks, and we'd have walks in the 4 to him. Can I summarise it in this way: whilst you were 5 countryside, and painted a lovely picture of it. 5 at Mirfield, is it right that you had some problems with 6 Q. Did you want to actually go to Mirfield? 6 your digestion? 7 A. I was -- as a young boy -- indeed, when I was in Dublin 7 A. I did indeed. I had -- I was -- actually, before I went 8 growing up, I was an altar boy from a very early age, 8 to Mirfield, I had some -- used to have severe stomach 9 maybe 6, 7, 8, something like that. And I served -- 9 cramps. 10 I used to go to mass, you know, two or three times 10 Q. Did they end up diagnosing you, after some tests, with 11 a week. 11 an ulcer? 12 Q. Did that upbringing lead you to want to go to Mirfield 12 A. With a duodenal ulcer, yes. 13 or was it more that your parents made you go? Help us 13 Q. As a result of that, did you then have to have cause to 14 with whose decision it was? 14 visit the infirmary at Mirfield on a very frequent 15 A. No, it was my decision. It was absolutely my decision. 15 basis? 16 There was no coercion, no nothing. In fact, I was very 16 A. Every night, because I had to take two or three 17 close to my mum and she -- you know, she didn't try to 17 different types of medication, and I was just 11 years 18 stop me at all. You know, when I said I wanted to go, 18 old, and so the person in charge of the infirmary kept 19 she said all right. It's every Irish mother's wish for 19 the medicines in his -- in the dispensary, or whatever 20 her son to be a priest, one of her sons -- 20 you want to call it. He had a little room where we 21 Q. So September -- 21 would go to visit, and that was next to the infirmary, 22 A. -- and I thought I was the chosen one. 22 and he would -- I would go to his room every night to be 23 Q. So September 1963, you started at St Peter Claver 23 given the tablets that I needed to take. 24 College. I just want to deal at the outset with what 24 Q. Is it whilst going to see him every night to get the 25 happened to you in relation to two of the priests that 25 medication from him that it was, in fact, during those Page 3 Page 4 1 (Pages 1 to 4) Epiq Europe Ltd www.epiqglobal.com Lower Ground, 20 Furnival Street (+44)207 4041400 [email protected] London EC4A 1JS IICSA Inquiry Roman Catholic Church Investigation Wider Hearing 30 October 2019 1 occasions that F339 sexually abused you? 1 to keep this up. We don't want this coming back again", 2 A. It was indeed, yes. 2 and he used -- because he ran out of the lotion, he used 3 Q. Without going into too much detail about the actual 3 Dettol. He used to pour Dettol -- I remember the little 4 abuse, though, did that involve him touching your penis? 4 glass of warm water, he would pour Dettol in, it would 5 A. It did, yes. 5 turn white, the smell was horrible -- I can't stand it, 6 Q. Did he try to masturbate you under the pretence of 6 even now, the smell of Dettol ... and he used to use 7 treating your penis with a lotion? 7 that. 8 A. Can I go back a little bit there? The original 8 Gradually, he would -- it went to the stage where he 9 treatment I was having was for my stomach, and there was 9 was masturbating me on a regular basis. 10 various medications I had to take. He would like to 10 Q. So if I have got this clear -- 11 portray himself as a doctor, and he would ask me to lie 11 A. And when I say "regular basis", I'm talking two or three 12 on the couch he had, like a doctor's surgery, and he 12 times a week -- 13 would say, you know, "I just want to feel your stomach 13 Q. That's what I was going to ask you. 14 to see whether I can feel anything going on", and so he 14 A. -- for a couple of years. I'm not saying every single 15 would use that as a pretext to feel around my stomach, 15 time, but ... 16 my genital area and that kind of thing. 16 Q. Can I see if I understand this correctly, A49: although 17 After that, I did -- there was a small problem with 17 there was a small medical problem and there was a lotion 18 my penis, and he had to get the doctor, the GP, in just 18 that you were supposed to apply, F339 took over the job 19 to perform a slight tiny little correction, and as 19 of applying the lotion? 20 a result of that, the doctor prescribed a lotion -- 20 A. Yes. 21 I don't know what it was -- for supposedly me to use to 21 Q. And, under the guise of treating your problem, he then 22 bathe, you know, so it would heal. 22 went on to sexually abuse you and then carried it on, 23 So the person in charge of the infirmary then, he 23 even once the lotion had finished, using the Dettol, as 24 used that as an excuse for, first of all, with a lotion 24 you told us, and over -- 25 to help to heal, and then afterwards he said, "We have 25 A. Because I had to go for my medication every night. As Page 5 Page 6 1 and when he felt like it, he would do it. He even did 1 up to that point, there was a middle school as well as 2 it with another boy -- another boy would come to the 2 a higher school, but in that -- ours was the first year 3 room -- or might be in the room before me and he would 3 to go from the lower school straight into the -- there 4 be standing in the corner with his back -- I always 4 was just lower and upper then.
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