CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, NORTHRIDGE

Invisible Hands: Eleven Million

A graduate project submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements For the degree of Master of Arts in Art, Visual Arts

By

Hedy V. Torres Cardenas

May 2018 The graduate project of Hedy V. Torres Cardenas is approved:

______Forcum, Tim M.F.A Date

______Ontiveros, Mario Ph.D. Date

______Fields, Samantha M.F.A, Chair Date

California State University, Northridge

ii Dedication

Thank God for giving me the determination and strength in pursuing a better life far from home.

I want to dedicate my accomplishments in obtaining a Master Degree in Art to my father, mother, four siblings, my grandparents, volunteers who participated in my art research,

Invisible Hands: Eleven Million, friends and family whom are undocumented immigrants in the United States, my mentors, and every person who has motivated and challenged me during this odyssey.

iii Table of Contents

Signature Page ii

Dedication iii

List of Figures v

Abstract vi

Introduction 1

Project Description 4

Form/Process/Technique 6

Research Analysis/ Historical Contextualization 8

The Red Wall 17

Conclusion 23

Bibliography 25

Appendices: Interviews 27

iv List of Figures

1.1 Being Sick is Not an Option 10

1.2 “Sometimes, I feel that everything is against me” 12

1.3 “I feel very blessed to live in America” 14

1.4 One Of 15

1.5 Eleven Million Video 16

1.6 Erasing the Border, Fernandez, Ana Teresa 2013 19

1.7 Credit: Lubesky, Emmanuel (LACMA). 20

1.8 No Splash, Gomez, Ramiro, 2014 21

1.9 Credit: Francis Peters, John / NYT via Redux (Schwartz). 22

v ABSTRACT

Invisible Hands: Eleven Million

By

Hedy V. Torres Cardenas

Masters of Arts in Art, Visual Arts

As an immigrant, I am often asked about my nationality because of my accent and physical appearance. Perhaps this should not be relevant anymore in Los Angeles, a city with a highly diverse population. However, the American notion of “Mexican” is often rife with misperceptions. Not all Mexican immigrants are undocumented, even though this is often assumed. Not all Spanish speakers are Mexican; Spanish is spoken in many countries. My latest work focuses on people alienated due to these, and other, assumptions. Through my work, I hope to break through the prejudices and stereotypes to acknowledge the existence of these individuals. The hard work of natural born citizens, new immigrants, and undocumented people, make this country the place where people from other countries around the world can come and pursue a better life.

Invisible Hands: Eleven Million is a project including three mediums: paintings, drawings, and time-lapse videos. The project, which elevates and commemorates undocumented immigrants living in Los Angeles, is primarily composed of DACA recipients. The portraits are made in various media including oil on canvas, charcoal on

vi paper, and digital drawings. The time-lapse videos were drawn during in-person interviews. First, I met with my prospective subjects in their favorite spot or coffee shop, to put them at ease. We then talked casually while I digitally sketched their portrait, and after, we started our interview.

The portraits are painted in monochromatic gray scale, putting the subjects in limbo. In my work, gray serves as an unemotional, neutral, indecisive color that depicts isolation. Undocumented people are often isolated, threatened, and segregated due to their immigration status. The lack of color is used to break up the barriers that our society faces in respect to racial issues. Not giving color to my portraits makes it easy to avoid labeling, stereotyping, or categorizing them into a specific ethnicity.

The drawings on paper are dedicated exclusively to DACA recipients. The drawings are intentionally erased and unfinished in areas to reflect their uncertain present and future. The multimedia time-lapse drawings are also dedicated to DACA students.

The videos show the process of creating a portrait, the finished drawing, then the drawing fading out. While the image of the individual is created and erased, the voice of the subject telling their story plays. The videos are a metaphoric reflection of how immigrants and DACA recipients have been threatened in our society denying recognition, the right to a higher education and legal status in our country.

The Red Wall installation strives to replicate the experience of crossing the United

States-Mexico border. The red color refers to the ruling political party and the power it has to oppress minorities. Red also serves as representation of the blood shed from undocumented immigrants who lost their life during the odyssey to reach for the

American Dream.

vii In general, my work primarily addresses the lack of representation undocumented people hold in this country.

viii Introduction

It was 4:34 a.m. and the alarm interrupted my sleep. I noticed my mom was sleeping and the alarm did not disturb her dreams. I was worried about my family sleeping in the house, as the night before, two women were killed four blocks away from my home. The news said two men had entered a house and opened fire, killing both women. Unfortunately, the authorities could not find the suspects, leaving the crime unsolved. According to The Congressional Research Serviced, “The Mexican government no longer estimates organized-crime related homicides, some independent analysts have claimed that murders linked to organized crime may have exceeded

100,000 since 2006, when President Calderón began his campaign against the Drug

Trafficking Organizations” (Beittel). Though the cause of the crime was not known, it is highly possible that it was caused by interaction with the drug cartels.

I opened the window to find where the sirens were coming from, but I could not see anything. My mom had woken up by the time I went back to bed and told me everything was okay. Two hours later, she woke me up to get ready and leave home. I had a 9:30 a.m. bus departure to the Guadalajara Airport, followed by a flight to Tijuana and a final bus ride to Los Angeles.

Every year before my departures from Mexico to the United States, I always visit my grandmother to receive her blessing. I was raised Catholic and feel that her blessings protect me like an impenetrable bubble of steel. Saying our goodbyes is always bittersweet. I say: los veo pronto (see you soon) to my parents and siblings because I like to leave them with hope before embarking on my journey back to the States. My only consuelo (comfort) is seeing their social media posts and incoming Whatsapp messages.

1 These interactions on screen curb the longing of Mexico and my family, but the nostalgia fades away when I engage in my busy routine in the United States.

I try to visit my family in Colima, a tiny state located in the southwest of Mexico, every December. Going back to United States gets harder every January. It feels that I leave a piece of me in Colima. I feel displaced, like I do not belong there and I do not belong to U.S. I do not want to return and live permanently in Mexico because art education receives little to no support. When I was about to finish my undergraduate education at California State University, Northridge, I started looking for Masters

Programs in universities around Mexico to be closer to family; unfortunately, I could not find programs in any university in the country. In Mexico there are no programs that would prepare educators to teach art; in fact, there no a plan for a teacher to follow, and it is up to the educator to teach art or improvise art-teaching strategies (Villareal).

Mexico is a country filled with internal problems caused by the drug cartels, which have corrupted individuals and branches of government. Cartels are at war with each other across neighborhoods and states. It terrifies me when I realize I cannot keep my family safe and away from the dangers of unresolved crimes inflicted by the government and cartels. U.S.News published that my home state Colima is one of the five places to avoid visiting due to higher level of potential danger (Stevenson). I cannot deny that this information is true since I myself have experienced this danger during my visits. The lack of protection, government authority and leadership are some of the reasons people migrate to safer places.

In the past, I myself have come face-to-face with immigration officials, and I have friends and family that have been threatened because of their unresolved status here in the

2 United States. For instance, some of them have faced deportation, others have lost their jobs while others are free to live where they would like. Still, they have to show proof of this “freedom” with a series of digits that grant them the right. However, there are others that have to be here because their lives would be at risk if they go back to their country of origin or just because they need to support their family economically. In my research, I have found that minorities are being treated with less respect than they should. In my experience, a lack of love, empathy and tolerance are absent regarding immigration policies in the United States, which has criminalized unauthorized immigration.

3 Project Description

Invisible Hands: Eleven Million is a project including four series: paintings, drawings, time-lapse videos, and the Red Wall, some of which will be exhibited in the

2018 Graduate exhibition at California State University, Northridge. The project was born in the streets working as an Uber driver and getting to know the struggles of many undocumented people in Los Angeles.

In 2015, I moved to Downtown Los Angeles to open a business as a cocktail fruit seller in the streets. The work required me to start at 5:00 a.m. and end around 7:00 p.m. every day. I put in more than twelve hours of work per day and made less than minimum wage. As a result, I decided to go back to my old job as an Uber driver. During the first week back at Uber, I stopped at a fruit stand to ask a vendor how he was able to do such a hard work. I then learned he was undocumented and he did not have a choice. His words opened my eyes and made me realize how privileged I am to be able to choose where I wanted to work while finishing my studies.

While working for Uber, I have been exposed to many stories of undocumented people and each one concludes with hard work, many hours, and no benefits. According to The Economic Benefits of Immigrant Authorization in California, “The wages earned by Unauthorized Latino immigrant workers are substantially lower than authorized workers with similar human capital characteristics and similar jobs” (Pastor, Scoggins and Tran). Lower wages result in longer hours of work for undocumented residents in order to sustain their families and many parts of this issue are rooted in their general lack of an education or a permit to work in the country.

4 In February 2016, I picked up three female passengers from LAX who were visiting from Texas. As soon as they got inside my car, they began expressing their thoughts on the border and how badly they wanted Donald Trump to win so he would deport all undocumented immigrants because in their eyes “illegal immigrants are criminals.” I felt uncomfortable and insulted because they were inside of my car stereotyping all undocumented immigrants as criminal Mexicans. I allowed them finish their conversation. Then I informed them that I was once undocumented and was planning on pursuing a master’s degree in Art. When I finished my story they were so empathetic towards me and asked me about my work. They gave me so much attention, and they even tipped me and wished me success. Through their reaction, I realized that

Art might help to create awareness and evoke empathy for those who have been maligned.

After that experience and having many conversations with undocumented passengers, I also realized that attending Graduate School at California State University,

Northridge would help me to find ways to inform and introduce the issues undocumented immigrants face through my art practice, create artwork, and exhibit my work in art venues to introduce the topic into communities of Los Angeles.

5 Form/Process/Technique

The process of Invisible Hands: Eleven Million starts by looking for undocumented immigrants willing to be part of my project. A third of the volunteers that have collaborated in my project were my Uber passengers, the second third were people I met in various locations, and the rest were referred to me through friends. Initially, it was a challenge to get them to open up and feel safe due to their fear to be deported. I talked to them about my background, about having been undocumented and let them know how important is for me to be a platform to share their stories.

At the beginning of the M.A. program, the first six portraits were painted on already made and thin canvas to save money and time. Consequently, some of the portraits started to rise off the wall making them look unprofessional. One of the missions of the project was to commemorate and highlight the subjects but the material was not conveying it. My Committee Chair, Samantha Fields, suggested that I build my own canvas and taught me how to do it. I started stretching each canvas on thick wood frames.

Building my own canvas helped me save money while giving my paintings the quality, importance and time each piece deserves. The dedication and time it takes to complete every piece helps me develop a stronger relationship between my work and myself.

The foundation of my artwork is related to the context in some ways. For instance, I buy wood at Home Depot, a place where immigrants are found at all times of the day, looking for jobs at the parking lots. The first time I saw them was in a Home

Depot located in the core of Los Angeles (Wilshire and Union St.). I wondered why many Latino men were standing outside Home Depot at 7:00 a.m. To my surprise, the passenger I picked up told me that they were waiting for an opportunity to work.

6 My artwork practice requires me to dedicate at least 20 hours weekly to my research. Managing my time and planning my schedule is very important because I live far from campus, I do not have my own studio, and I work full time. For instance, I set the days to meet with prospective volunteers on the days during work if he/she lives near home; but if the volunteer lives near school, I meet him/her during school days. During

Tuesdays and Thursdays, I dedicate the entire day to my art practice and seminar classes.

7 Research Analysis/Historical Contextualization

The type of research I have done during these last two years has taught me the importance of being open to dialogue and analysis. Sometimes, my research requires me to listen to hard stories that might affect my mood and day. These stories require me to channel my thoughts and find solutions for social issues that exist in my community and how to help people that have been affected by them. Unfortunately, in some of the cases there is nothing I can do for them but to support them morally. There are cases when I am able to connect people to friends that would offer them a job.

The question in my research was how to help them, which is how I arrived at the idea to honor and represent them artistically. Although I did not have much experience in this medium, I wanted to explore and stretch my desire to improve technically and at the same time represent my volunteers in the best way: portraits. For me making portraits was the best way to take these people out of the dark commemorating their existence by giving them the importance performed through art.

The history of portraiture dates from more than 5,000 years as a means to document the appearance of someone. Paintings, drawings, and sculptures were the common mediums used to represent a person before the invention of photography. In the past, portraits were commissioned for wealthy families representing power, luxury, perfection, and beauty among other qualities high class symbolized (Tate). These days, commissioned artwork tends to be unaffordable. Therefore, deciding to make portraits was an action to commemorate and document the existence of undocumented residents in

Los Angeles.

8 During the first semester, I started painting black and white portraits focusing my attention in the facial qualities of the subjects. In the portraits, every subject is facing the audience, as they are proud to be who they are. The position of the subject intends to replicate an official passport photograph as a promotion and campaign in favor to regulate the status of these people. The lack of color in the portraits serves as a barrier to label and stereotype any of the subjects into a specific ethnicity.

My artwork, like with Pablo Picasso’s used of monochromatic gray scale is intended to focus the idea to evoke meaningful content. One example is Guernica by

Pablo Picasso, a masterpiece in black and white that represents death and the suffering of people during World War II. In Guernica, Picasso avoided using red to represent blood, using only black and white tones. Picasso often avoided color in his art pieces to focus the idea in making work not to be looked at but to be questioned replacing “sensual pleasure with intellectual content” (Jones). In the same vein, the lack of color in my work is used to break the barriers that our society faces in respect to racial issues. Not giving color to my portraits makes it easy to avoid labeling, stereotyping, or categorizing the subjects into a specific ethnicity. And in the same time one of the main ideas of art practice is to evoke meaningful content.

The series Invisible Hands: Eleven Million has had great response from the audience; however, the exploration of these portraits has become a challenge to create both meaningful and beautiful artwork to be looked at and questioned. Therefore, I started changing the background, transitioning from the black hue to represent full undocumented and isolation, to a lighter gray background that represents a neutral,

DACA status, environment to permit the audience to focus attention on the subject.

9 Being Sick is Not an Option is the name of one of my pieces. I named it this because healthcare is an issue most undocumented people face. Many cannot afford healthcare or health insurance. During a visit to one of my volunteers’ fruit stand, I saw that he was working while he was sick. I asked him if he had visited a doctor or taken medication, and he explained that these expenses were out of his reach. In the portrait, the black background symbolizes that the volunteer is not on a path to citizenship or protected under any government program (see fig. 1.1).

Fig. 1.1 Being Sick Is Not an Option. Torres, Hedy. Oil on Canvas. 36 x 48 inches. 2016 According to The New England Journal of Medicine, the implementation of the

Affordable Care Act benefits only a group of eligible undocumented residents of

California. In 2015, Governor Jerry Brown expanded health care benefits to undocumented children and teens in low-income families under the program Health for all Kids Act. In 2016, he also expanded the possibility for undocumented people to purchase health insurance through individual market or private insurance, making

California the first state of the nation to allow undocumented residents to have access to health insurance (Saloner). However, my volunteer cannot benefit from any of those

10 programs due to his age and his low-income status. On the other hand, there are various ways an undocumented person can have access to health care or visit a clinic.

According to an article in Los Angeles Times, there are various methods for an undocumented resident to have health care coverage, including: through School Health insurance, where the person buys health insurance from a University or College, Medical

Coverage for emergency care or pregnancy-related services, and through community health centers that provide free and affordable services to Los Angeles residents in approximately 1,200 centers around Los Angeles county. These centers provide primary healthcare, dental, mental and pharmacy services (Zamosky). The last option also offers services to any low income resident in Los Angeles.

“Sometimes, I feel that everything is against me” is a title chosen from a conversation I had with one of my female volunteers. Her words impacted and intrigued me since I felt identified with her story. Both of us stayed in the United States with tourist visas, breaking the law, and automatically becoming undocumented immigrants.

Her story as an undocumented person began when her father brought her here as child.

Currently, she is protected under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program and is a double major student at California State University, Northridge. During the interview, she mentioned she was struggling financially and emotionally because of her unstable immigration status. During the interview she said:

For me being in the US, it's almost a form of resistance I would say. And I guess it's like a beautiful resistance because I'm here, I'm undocumented and I feel like everything sometimes, sometimes you feel like everything's against you, but I'm still here I go to school, I work, um, I pay my rent and bills and I'm basically living in a system that it's not built for me or people like me. So I feel like we have to go through a lot of obstacles in order to get where we are today. And um, but then again, it's, it's kind of like this feeling of like, it's like a beautiful feeling for me because I feel like despite

11 of everything that I've been through, I'm still here and um, regardless of how hard it may get, I'm still here and I'm alive and I'm with family that loves me (Two).

Those words were mentioned in our conversation and I paraphrased them in a sentence to title her portrait (see fig. 1.2).

Fig. 1.2 “Sometimes, I feel that everything is against me.” Torres, Hedy. Oil on Canvas. 36 x 48 inches. 2017 As aforementioned, she is a DACA recipient. In 2012, former President Barack

Obama, in his pursuit of an immigration reform, was able to implement the DACA Act, which has benefited approximately 800,000 undocumented youth who were brought without authorization to the country as minors. The benefits of having DACA status allow recipients to work and study. Yet, the program must be renewed every two years and does not offer a path to citizenship (Dickerson). Unfortunately, since last year the

DACA program has been threatened various times. In fact, it was terminated in

September 2017 by the Trump administration and is currently under review by the

Supreme Court, allowing the current DACA recipients to renew their permits (Jawetz,

Prchal Svajlenka and Wolgin). Being under DACA programs means being in jeopardy-- the program does not offer a reliable future.

12 The last year my paintings shifted, I started changing the backgrounds and adding specific facial expressions. In my work, a gray background symbolizes a neutral present that connotes being in the middle of two statuses, the undocumented and documented.

Looking to evoke emotional connection between the subject and audience, I asked my volunteers how they wanted to be portrayed, and all of them gave me the freedom to convey them as I perceived them. While researching to understand the posture that the volunteers took, I found that smiling is a non-verbal and powerful way to deliver emotional information (Kreus and Chen). Thus, using those characteristics in my work creates an emotional connection between the work and the audience.

The idea to evoke emotions through facial expressions of the subjects is important in my work. “Sometimes, I feel that everything is against me” is a portrait in which the subject is portrayed with a half smile. Michael Kreus and David Chen suggest in their article, A Winning Smile? Smile Intensity, Physical Dominance and Fighter Performance that “people tend to smile more when they are lower in social status than their interaction partners (Kreus and Chen).” In this case, the volunteer in the portrait is in a vulnerable position in which her presence in the United Status depends on an executive order that is yet not resolved. Moreover, in the other portraits the facial expression changes to a neutral gesture. The same article suggests, “neutral expressions may be a sign of increased dominance (Kreus and Chen).” One example is “I feel very blessed to live in

America” a portrait of another DACA student who maintains a positive attitude and is glad to be where he is, despite the instability of the DACA program (see fig. 1.3).

I feel very, very blessed to live in America, especially to live in Los Angeles. I feel like I have so many opportunities here and the people are great in Los Angeles is a melting pot of cultures and I feel really, really. I feel really at home here, uh, but at the same time I feel like because of my

13 status, I’m missing out on opportunities that I, that I could not engage in as opposed to, uh, if, if my status was changed (Three).

Fig. 1.3. “I feel very blessed to live in America.” Torres, Hedy. Oil on Canvas. 36 x 48 inches. 2017

The Eleven Million project is composed of drawings on paper and multimedia videos dedicated exclusively to DACA students. The project was born in February 2017 to be submitted and selected to the 2017 Matador Credit Union scholarship. The multimedia (digital) time-lapse drawings are also dedicated to DACA students. The videos show the process of a portrait, the finished drawing, and then the drawing fading out. During the process of the drawing, the audio becomes the story of the subject, as recounted in our interview. The drawings on paper are intentionally erased and unfinished in some areas to reflect their uncertain present and future. The videos and works on paper are a metaphoric reflection about how immigrants and DACA recipients have been threatened in our society.

One of is the first drawing on paper where the subject is facing the viewer in a confident way (see fig. 1.4). The drawing is intentionally incomplete. The idea to not finish the drawing allows the viewers to question the content. In this body of work the

14 face and part of the body are unfinished and it also suggests that the content was erased, which points to his unresolved status in the country.

Fig. 1.4. One of. Torres, Hedy. Charcoal on Paper. 14 x 17 inches. 2017

Eleven Million is a collection of seven videos in which the subject tells his/her story. In the videos, the drawing begins to take form. Then, when the drawing is complete, they start to fade away (see fig. 1.5). During the drawing presentation, the story of the volunteer begins to unfold, transporting the audience into following both the drawing process and the story. The main idea of the videos is to listen the voice of each volunteer and afford them the opportunity to be heard through this art platform. The stories engage the viewer and create a relationship between the viewer and volunteer.

This is part of one story told in the Eleven Million videos:

I'm studying to get my master's in creative writing. Well I'm studying creative writing because ever since I was a little kid, I've always seen power in words and the older you get you get different examples of that. Whether they're good or bad, and I think the recent election is an example of how powerful words can be because words influence how people think and that could go both ways it could go negative negatively or positively (One).

15 Fig. 1.5. Eleven Million Video. Torres, Hedy. 2017

16 The Red Wall

In the last couple years, the U.S.-Mexico border has been a popular topic of discussion in the media. The proposal to build a wall is to prevent illegal immigration, drug smuggling and a have safer country. Democratic senator Claire McCaskill’s office estimates that it would cost 67 billion to build a wall along the 2000-mile border. It is being said that Mexico would have to pay for it, but the response from the Mexican government has been an emphatic no. If Mexico’s government does not pay for it, the amount to cover the budget most likely will be taken from U.S. taxpayers (Fortune).

The Red Wall installation strives to replicate the experience of crossing the United

States-Mexico border and is a symbol of protest in contradiction of the construction of it.

The eleven pipes are painted in red, which refers to the ruling political party and the power it has to oppress minorities. Red also serves as representation of the blood shed from undocumented immigrants who lost their lives during the odyssey to reach a better future. The eleven pipes represent the amount of undocumented people living in the

United States, which was approximately eleven million in 2015 (Krogstad and D'Vera).

The eleven PVC pipes are aesthetically the opposite of the “big beautiful wall” that has been proposed. The Red Wall is made of PVC pipes, a hard material to be painted on because the color peels off easily with manipulation. The imperfections on each pipe represent the ugly side of what a border symbolizes contextually.

The context of my artwork has been evolving due to the influence of various artists whose work also deals with undocumented immigrants in the United States. Ana

Teresa Fernandez and Alejandro G. Iñarritu are two artists whose contextual work has

17 influenced me in various ways. Ramiro Gomez and JR are artists whose work influenced me because both of them represent immigrants in their work.

The Red Wall installation will be positioned in front of various portraits obstructing the viewer attempting to see the Invisible Hands: Eleven Million paintings.

Consequently, they will have to cross the red pipes in order to get closer to the portraits.

The action of penetrating the wall will serve as the experience of crossing the border. As it is uncomfortable to be on the other side, the viewers without knowing will cross it, imitating what undocumented people do (looking for a better place to see their future).

Ana Teresa Fernandez is a Mexican artist based in San Francisco whose artwork deals mainly about her political views on immigration. She addresses her work with performances that are documented with photos, videos, and paintings.

Borrando la Frontera was a performance on the Mexican side of the border between the U.S. and Mexico. In the performance, Fernandez wears a black dress and high heels. The idea of this clothing evolved from the iconic aspect of luto in Mexican culture; luto means dead and she wearing a black dress commemorated the thousands of people who have died crossing the border to pursue a better life. Fernandez painted the border with sky blue house paint to camouflage and disappear it on the eyes of spectators.

Fernandez mentions that during the performance, the Mexican border patrol advised her to stop and arrested her. After 30 minutes of explaining the concept of the piece to them, they let her continue the performance. Fernandez explains that her performance decontextualized the possibility of not seeing the border and how two countries can coexist peacefully (Artist Uses Paint to Protest U.S.-Mexico Border Wall).

18 Fernandez also made a painting called Borrando la Frontera as a documentation of her performance. The colors of the painting are over-saturated; she painted herself wearing a black dress, high heels and erasing the border using her figure as a representation of all immigrants trying to cross the border (see fig. 1.6) (Artist Uses Paint to Protest U.S.-Mexico Border Wall).

Fig. 1.6. Fernandez, Ana Teresa, Erasing the Border. Oil on Canvas 48 x 72 inches, 2013. (anateresafernandez.com).

Fernandez influences me with her artwork because she is using paint as a weapon to address the frustration of most immigrants. Also, in the performance she commemorates the lives that have been lost during the process of crossing the border.

The similarities between her work and mine coincide in honoring immigrants and using the wall to protest in a pacific way against the division of both nations.

Carne y Arena is an installation that explores the possible situations refugees and immigrants experience when crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. The installation is a virtual experience with duration of approximately 6 ½ minutes where the audience is mentally submersed in a virtual scene while staying in a cold room to experience a matrix of crossing the border (see fig. 1.7). In order to recreate and make this project happen

Iñarritu had to interview immigrants and invited them to be part of the project. Carne y

19 Arena ‘allows the visitor to go through a direct experience walking in the immigrant feet under their skin and into their heart’ (LACMA).

Fig. 1.7 Credit: Lubesky, Emmanuel (LACMA). In Owen Gleiberman’s review in Variety Magazine, he describes being alone in a cold and grey room with a floor covered with sand replicating Sonora desert:

Here’s what happens. From a great distance, a ragged group of people begins to emerge and walk toward you. They are immigrants making a trek toward the border. Just as you’ve grown used to their presence (you can walk toward them, or circle around them, or — as you may choose to do — walk right along with them), a helicopter appears in the sky, shining its spotlight downward, and as it flies closer and closer, the light becomes blinding, the sound overwhelming, and you find yourself doing something that’s utterly instinctual: You duck. You try to get out of the way. The threat is that physical, that scary, that real. Just like that, you’ve become part of the audience cowering to avoid being shot at in ‘The Great Train Robbery’ (Gleiberman).

Gleiberman describes that for the first time he felt privileged and understood the

“dehumanized treatment” most immigrants face during their crossing by the border

20 patrols (Gleiberman). Gleiberman’s description compels me to see the Carne y Arena installation as an awareness call to advocate protection and peace for those suffering of oppression not only in the American continent, but also throughout the world.

Ramiro Gomez is an LA-based artist born in San Bernardino and son of Mexican immigrants. Gomez’s artwork mainly deals with labor of low-skilled jobs in Los Angeles.

No Splash is part of the Domestic Disturbances series that Gomez created, referencing

David Hockney’s paintings of Southern California. In the painting, No Splash, which directly appropriates Hockneys’s Splash, Gomez added two subjects and erased the splash from the swimming pool. Gomez used the two subjects to introduce the Latino domestic workers into his work (see fig. 1.8). Gomez explains that his work flourished from his personal experience working as a live-in nanny of a family in West Hollywood

(Lawrence).

Fig. 1.8. No Splash. Gomez, Ramiro. 96 x 96 inches. Acrylic on Canvas. 2014. (http://ramirogomezjr.blogspot.com

Gomez is an important influence in my work because he aims to represent working-class people who perform low-skilled jobs in Los Angeles. He is exposing what

21 is behind the scenes of the beautiful landscapes in the city, the big and clean houses in

Beverly Hills, and those who sew the expensive clothes wealthy people wear everyday.

In a way, my work conveys the same issues of uncovering and honoring the laborers who are often forgotten and unseen because they are immigrants and most of the time undocumented people decide to hide because of their fear of being deported.

JR is a street artist and human rights activist whose artwork introduces common people to larger communities. In his most recent work, JR commemorates marginalized people around the world with photographs pasted on walls and installations on buildings, changing the site temporarily and sometimes permanently. One of his best-known projects is the installation of a Tecate child on the U.S.-Mexico border (Schwartz). The installation strives to illustrate the desire to emigrate from Latin America to the United

States. The installation was set on the Mexico side and can only be observed on the US side. In the picture retrieved from John Francis Peters, a border patrol is captured staring the installation (see fig. 1.9)

Fig. 1.9 Credit: Francis Peters, John / NYT via Redux (Schwartz)\

22 Conclusion

As a Mexican immigrant, working for Uber has helped me grow, making me aware of issues that were not in my purview. Over the last four years, I have had nearly

9,000 passengers, heard many stories—both good and bad—and visited many places throughout Southern California. However, the most important experiences are those that helped me find my future path with my art, and helped me define my advocacy and desire to share stories that can impact our communities.

Art is an effective platform to shed light on social issues and, in some cases, resolve them. My art practice highlights the stories of undocumented people living in Los

Angeles as a call to advocate for equality and cultivate empathy. Through my research, I gained a broader understanding of these social issues and captured them in art to facilitate conversations around the topic among those who disregard issues that affect undocumented immigrants.

During the research, I found out that focusing on portraying facial expressions in the content would also generate a dialogue between the viewer and the subject. Also, I use the background in content to represent the status of each individual: a black background represents the undocumented status of the subject with no hope for change, while a gray background represents neutrality for those who were protected under the

DACA program.

Through the last two years, my research evolved in various mediums presenting portraits, videos, and an installation that served as a network to evoke emotions and situations my volunteers face as undocumented people. The work of artists whose art practice is dedicated to human rights—including Teresa Fernandez, Alejandro G.

23 Iñarritu, Ramiro Gomez, and Jr.—helped me develop unique artwork where the stories of undocumented people are presented in various mediums.

I learned a lot from my professors, especially Tim Forcum and Samantha Fields, who have been there to help me sculpt and present my ideas effectively. Invisible Hands:

Eleven Million will continue.

24 Bibliography

Beittel, June S. “Mexico: Organized Crime and Drug Trafficking Organizations.” Fas.org, Congressional Research Service, 25 Apr. 2017, fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R41576.pdf.

Dickerson, Caitlin. “What Is DACA? Who Are the Dreamers? Here Are Some Answers.” The New York Times, The New York Times, 24 Jan. 2018, www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/us/daca-dreamers-shutdown.html.

“Everything We Know About Donald Trump's Proposed Border Wall.” Fortune, Fortune, 19 Jan. 2018, fortune.com/2018/01/19/donald-trump-border-wall/.

Fernandez, Ana Teresa. “Artist Uses Paint to Protest US-Mexico Border Wall.” Al Jazeera America, 15 Oct. 2015, america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/live- news/2015/10/artist-uses-paint-to-protest-us-mexico-border-wall.html.

Fabi, Rachel, and Saloner, Brendan. “Covering Undocumented Immigrants - State Innovation in California.” New England Journal of Medicine, 17 Nov. 2016, www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1609468?page=18&sort=oldest.

Gleiberman, Owen. “Cannes Virtual Reality Review: Alejandro G. Iñárritu's 'Carne y Arena'.” Variety, 20 May. 2017, variety.com/2017/film/reviews/carne-y-arena- review-alejandro-g-inarritu-1202438293/#!

Iñárritu, Alejandro G. “Alejandro G. Iñárritu: CARNE y ARENA (Virtually Present, Physically Invisible).” LACMA.com, LACMA, www.lacma.org/carne-y-arena.

Jawetz, Tom, et al. “Dreams Deferred: A Look at DACA Renewals and Losses Post- March 5.” Center for American Progress, 2 Mar. 2018, www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/news/2018/03/02/447486/drea ms-deferred-look-daca-renewals-losses-post-march-5/.

Jones, Jonathan. “Picasso's Love Affair with Monochrome.” The Guardian, Guardian News and Media, 16 Oct. 2012, www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2012/oct/16/picasso- love-affair-monochrome.

Kraus, Michael W., et al. “A Winning Smile? Smile Intensity, Physical Dominance, and Fighter Performance.” Emotion, vol. 13, no. 2, 2013, pp. 270–279. Retrieved: https://csun-primo.hosted.exlibrisgroup.com/primo- explore/search?query=any,contains,A%20winning%20smile%3F%20Smile%20int ensity,%20physical%20dominance,%20and%20fighter%20performance&tab=ever ything&search_scope=EVERYTHING&vid=01CALS_UNO&offset=0

25 Krogstad, Jens Manuel, et al. “5 Facts about Illegal Immigration in the U.S.” Pew Research Center, 27 Apr. 2017, www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/27/5- facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/.

Pastor, Manuel, et al. “The Economic Benefits of Immigrant Authorization in California.” Http://Dornsife.usc.ed, dornsife.usc.edu/assets/sites/731/docs/chirla_v10_small.pdf.

One, Volunteer. "Eleven Million." cond. Hedy Torres. By Volunteer Two. Prod. Hedy Torres. Los Angeles, 2017

Schwartz, Alexandra. “The Artist JR Lifts a Mexican Child Over the Border Wall.” The New Yorker, The New Yorker, 12 Sept. 2017, www.newyorker.com/news/as-told- to/the-artist-jr-lifts-a-mexican-child-over-the-border-wall.

Stevenson, Mark. “5 Mexican States Get Highest US 'Do Not Travel' Warning.” U.S. News & World Report, U.S. News & World Report, 10 Jan. 2018, www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/2018-01-10/5-mexican- states-get-highest-us-do-not-travel-warning.

Tate. “Portrait – Art Term.” Tate, www.tate.org.uk/art/art-terms/p/portrait.

Three, Volunteer. "Eleven Million." cond. Hedy Torres. By Volunteer Three. Prod. Hedy Torres. Los Angeles, 2017.

Two, Volunteer. "Eleven Million." cond. Hedy Torres. By Volunteer Two. Prod. Hedy Torres. Los Angeles, 2017 Villarreal, Héctor. “Arts Education in Mexico: Between Contempt and Subordination.” Academia.edu , 1 Feb. 2018, www.academia.edu/15597848/Arts_Education_in_Mexico_Between_contempt_and_ subordination.

Weschler, Lawrence. “Ramiro Gomez's Domestic Disturbances.” The New York Times, The New York Times, 14 Aug. 2015, www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/magazine/ramiro-gomezs-domestic- disturbances.html. Stevenson, Mark. “5 Mexican States Get Highest US 'Do Not Travel' Warning.” U.S. News & World Report, U.S. News & World Report, 10 Jan. 2018, www.usnews.com/news/best-states/arizona/articles/2018-01-10/5-mexican- states-get-highest-us-do-not-travel-warning.

Zamosky, Lisa. “Healthcare Options for Undocumented Immigrants.” Los Angeles Times, Los Angeles Times, 27 Apr. 2014, www.latimes.com/business/la-fi- healthcare-watch-20140420-story.html.

26 Appendices: Interviews

Volunteer 1

Speaker 1: 00:00 Three words that come to mind when I think about CSUN, are empowerment home and growth. And now for my feelings towards how I live and how I feel about living in America? For a long time, it was just living here. You know just it was your home, but you get older and you realize that you weren't. You wouldn't be able to drive at 18; we wouldn't be able to get a job in an office. Then little things started changing that your perception of home became, am I actually home? Is home somewhere else? Do I have a home? And those feelings have been amplified since the November election because now you have people supporting those who believe that we don't belong here. Even though we've been here our whole lives. Even though this country is the only country I've ever known, you begin to wonder even more like, are they right?

Speaker 1: 01:07 Are they wrong am I right, am I wrong? And you just kind of have to think about what's important to you. If you're a person that you feel like you can make home anywhere, then maybe that's an option, but if home is here, there's a saying that says when somebody tells you to move and you don't want to move, plant yourself like a tree and say, no, you move, and that's kind of the attitude. I feel like everybody should take anybody who feels affected by the inauguration and presence of a certain particular individual in the White House. Just remember, this is your home. I'm studying to get my master's in creative writing. Well I'm studying creative writing because ever since I was a little kid, I've always seen power in words and the older you get you get different examples of that. Whether they're good or bad, and I think the recent election is an example of how powerful words can be because words influence how people think and that could go both ways.

Speaker 1: 02:07 it could go negative negatively or positively and I feel like it's my responsibility as a Mexicano as an undocumented student, as a man to become a

27 creative writer because around the country, all creative writing programs for the most part are white people. That means the books that were being published or write for white people and that means our voices aren't heard and if one person doesn't make the effort to be a member of one program, even if it's just one undocumented student in the whole country, that's how it starts and that's how you inspire other students. Other people who would want to tell the story go ahead and get the degree and without the degree you can still write a story. But that's why I'm in school because ever since I was a little kid, I felt that what I'm here for? and that's what I'm heading this world for.

Volunteer 2

Speaker 1: 00:00 I would describe CSUN in three words as a growth, empowering and community. For me being in the U.S., it's almost a form of resistance I would say. And I guess it's like a beautiful resistance because I'm here, I'm undocumented and I feel like everything sometimes, sometimes you feel like everything's against you, but I'm still here. I go to school, I work, um, I pay my rent and bills and I'm basically living in a system that it's not built for me or people like me. So I feel like we have to go through a lot of obstacles in order to get where we are today. And um, but then again, it's, it's kind of like this feeling of like, it's like a beautiful feeling for me because I feel like despite of everything that I've been through, I'm still here and um, regardless of how hard it may get, I'm still here and I'm alive and I'm with family that loves me.

Speaker 1: 01:07 So in that way, it's also, I don't know, I just, I think it's like both, like the, the beautiful struggle. Well, I'm going to school and uh, I'm in, uh, at CSUN, I'm double majoring in sociology and Chicana Chicano studies with the goal to become a social worker and to serve my community and help the community where I, where I come from to help them navigate the world that we live in and to provide, to provide resources that they might need. And it is like, empower my community to know what’s there to help them realize what they're capable of to make

28 hopefully decided we live in a better way. If I were documented, if I could get a documented, I think the first thing I would do probably take my sister to visit my Mexico. It would be well for me, I think I need it. That now that I'm older to be able to go back to, to the country that gave birth to me, to realize, to like reconnect with my roots, um, be able to visit the place that I come from, with the knowledge that I have now. To be able to kind of get a sense of who I am, I where I'm coming from and where I'm going to in life.

Volunteer 3

Speaker 1: 00:01 That is what CSUN is for me. It's a safe place where I can focus and it's a ladder to success. I feel very, very blessed to live in America, especially to live in Los Angeles. I feel like I have so many opportunities here and the people are great in Los Angeles is a melting pot of cultures and I feel really, really. I feel really at home here, uh, but at the same time I feel like because of my status, I’m missing out on opportunities that I, that I could not engage in as supposed to, uh, if, if my status was changed. So I feel like I've missed some opportunities, but at the same time there's other opportunities that have opened and I just feel very blessed to live in Los Angeles. And this is a city that I call my home. I feel like everybody in Los Angeles is kind of exposed to different cultures and different people. So I feel like I had been very sheltered by California and Los Angeles in general. I feel very fortunate to live in such a wonderful city. To live in America is just a great. It's a great thing for my family and I because we can, if we work hard, we can succeed. That's what I like about. That's what I like about Los Angeles and America in general, so if you work hard, you can. There's definitely a way that you can succeed and be happy. That's what I like about America. Volunteer 4

Speaker 1: 00:00 I grew up in a Family with a one single parent and I learned that that life is a struggle, but if you really want something, ah you'll find a way to achieve it and being undocumented student, it's a bit harder

29 because I feel more like just more restrictions for me for people like me, but that shouldn't stop us because I've seen many people that started from zero from nothing and becoming like very important people to others and I just want to have a positive influence on people and become a very successful person, become like a leader or mentor for myself and for other people who need guidance as well. speaker 1: 01:03 and I felt like being in college and university like Northridge is a great opportunity for me. speaker 1: 01:16 and The way to to go with that is just to pursue my dreams and never give up, there might be hard times, but those are just temporal. I have to have like a ton of vision. Focus on what I'm here for, and I know that patients, it's key to success, so therefore nothing is going to stop me, little by little, we achieve what we want.

Volunteer 5

Speaker 1: 00:00 Describe CSUN in three words by having a unity, having hope and being unafraid. When I came I was only focusing on one thing and that wasn't an American dream. That was to be alive. I was diagnosed with Spinal Bifida when I was little and I had my first surgery when I was three months old. My Mom and my dad didn't know if was going to make it the Doctors themselves didn't know if I was going to make it, but they knew that if I made it, if I made it through my first surgery, then my next surgery couldn't be in Peru and that I had to fly to United States of America to have the other surgery done. Having to do that. And I came out with those surgeries. I pursued my dream and that was my stage management dream. Um, to work in the industry as a stage manager.

Speaker 1: 01:01 Right now I'm a theater major. Emphasis in stage management and the Opportunities in CSUN that I have for stage management is remarkable. I can go to any like venues and get my voice be heard. But with that, I don't know if I can work. I know I can work today because of DACA, but I don't know if I

30 can work tomorrow. I don't know my future. I don't know if there's a guarantee for tomorrow. It's pivotal for stage manager to have a plan, to have a focus to go after what you need to, to have it, to have people rely on you. But if your future is not set for tomorrow, how can people rely on you? And that's been my main struggle. I don't have a certainty in this country and that's a very vulnerable state to be in. And I have, I, I want the freedom, I want the rights, I want the, I want the not even the privileged, but I just want to be, be able to say, Hey, I can plan two years ahead because and be heard. Then I can do anything and provide for anybody in this country. Just like you just like me. We're all the same. We're at the end of the day, we all are human beings that have a voice to be heard. Thank you for listening to me. Thank you for hearing my story.

Volunteer 6

Speaker 2: 00:41 My name is (Anonymous) and I am giving permission to Hedy Torres to use my story and image in order for her to present her project.

Hedy Torres: 00:52 Yeah.

Speaker 2: 00:53 OK. So my name, my name is Anonymous, um, I am a DACA recipient and I am a dreamer. I have, have accomplished many, many things. However, now I, I am in fear. I am feeling very frustrated because all that might come to an end. I moved here in 2005. I attended high school. I, you know, I went through the entire process. I took ESL classes. I graduated with honors from high school, transfer to a community college because I wanted to, but because I didn't have the money to, to pay for school since we didn't have the dream Act back then I went to a community college. I and I ended up doing what I wanted to do to go to the school of my dreams, which was UCLA and going to UCLA and I took advantage of every opportunity I was doing my research about the dead women of Juarez is with two very well known professors at the university.

Speaker 2: 01:58 I was able to also travel, using Advance Parole. I went to Brazil and I finished my degree in my

31 bachelor's of Arts in international studies with a focus in that in American, my Latin-American Studies. I also took Portuguese in high school. I went to Brazil. I did more community work over there. Um, and you know, I came back and I feel like there was more for me to, to get done, not just with my community, with, with God for myself. So I decided to apply for my master's. So now I'm, I'm currently doing my masters at Loyola Marymount. I'm doing my master's in counseling and guidance in higher education. And since day one I staring the program. I knew that that's what I wanted to do. I want to work with my community. I have been an activist since 2010. Um, I do a lot of stuff for my community right now.

Speaker 2: 02:58 I'm also working for the education department at Cerritos college with non credit and non-credit classes for students are in low income because a lot of our reach for them, I feel like this is the first time in my life that I'm actually doing what I like, what I enjoy doing. And, and again, because DACA, might just wait. It's already ended, but, or this may be just taken away from me. It's very scary. Um, I'm also working at Harvard College and I worked there, with the dreamer population there, I'm also proud the dreamer committee. There were organizing a group of students, um, you know, we also host a lot of events for, for the community, know your rights events, things like that. So I feel this is the beginning of something big in just trying to do what is on my hands to, to help all these people. And I am graduating in May with my master's and the fact that, you know, I'm working for both districts for LACCD district in Cerritos College, which is a different district.

Speaker 2: 04:06 It's very scary because they do, they do require a social security number. And although, you know, it's, it's so simple. It just seems like it's a number. It's, it is my life. It's that being taken away from me right now. It's not, I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do it that I felt like my job defines a lot of who I am my identity. I am working with the community and um, um, just, just very terrified. I don't know what to expect. They gave me a

32 deadline of six months in. I don't know, I can't, I can plan my life in six months and now I have my, my goals, the dreams that I have, they go, you know, so I'm here to 10 years. I already expected to, to be a counselor in a community college setting and become a dean in the next four years. So I just wanted to experience to get up there. And you know, I don't know, I'm just very, very, very scared. So I hope um by March. We have good news. Yeah.

Volunteer 7

Speaker 1: 00:00 Hi, my name's Anonymous Uh, today's February 27, 2018. I give Hedy Torres my permission to use my story for project 11,000,000.

Hedy Torres: 00:13 OK, we're going to start with a question. I want you to let me know or tell me in general, how do you feel to be a DACA recipient or undocumented in the United States during this time? What does it feel like?

Speaker 1: 00:31 Right now? It's kind of hard with the whole Trump administration trying to threaten a removal of DACA. Um, and then with my permission expired, it's kind of hard to find a job or I'm also being worried about deportation and stuff like that. So it's a little hard.

Speaker 3: 00:51 Um,

Speaker 1: 00:52 as of right now I'm just trying to work, trying to get money anywhere I can and um, it's kind of difficult to balance that with school, you know, it's kind of hard.

Hedy Torres: 00:52 what career are you pursuing?

Speaker 1: 01:07 well right now I'm going to do another body work. I fixed cars, um, with my uncles. They uh, helped me a lot with, you know, provided me with a job while I get my,

Speaker 1: 01:19 um,

33 Speaker 1: 01:20 my status back my DACA status back, which allows me to work again and you know, work my social so that be a lot easier. But meanwhile I got a job where I can and then it's also kind of hard too, you know, you know I can't be going anywhere like LA or close to the border because um, you know, it's, if I get like, you know, stop by ICE or something is kind of tricky. So technically I don't have DACA so they'd be able to deport me and stuff like that. So it's kind of hard. Tricky.

Hedy Torres: 01:52 what are you studying in CSUN? speaker 1: 01:57 I'm double-major in art, I am majoring in CTBA, which is the cinematic world. Uh, I started off with my art major, my focuses on animation. Um, I really like have a passion for movies. I liked drawing.

Speaker 1: 02:14 I like, you know, making characters come to life and you know, having like a meaning for something. Um, yeah, I like, I like drawing, I like everything that has to do with animation. I like seeing characters come to life and how it can have an impact on somebody, you know. Um, you know, there's so many movies I watched when I was little, like a “Toy Story,” “Finding Nemo,” um, you know, they all have meaning they have like a story to tell and well one of the reasons I like animation, I'm pursuing this type of careers to have my story and other stories like mine be told to movies, have a, and then what's really important to the younger generation. Now I'm watching these films they can understand and learn the importance of unity and how working together and finding ways to help others around the world can make a difference. Um, which you know, comes to play with my other major, which CTBA and screenwriting I want to do both aspects, both the towing and the writing. One of my major goals suits in the film industry.

Hedy Torres: 03:34 That's really good.

Hedy Torres: 03:36 Thank you for participating in 11,000,000, project and I hope, uh, you can get your papers papers soon so you can actually achieve your goals.

34 Volunteer 8:

Speaker 1: 00:00 Um, the three words I would use to describe CSUN would be, um, diverse, a very proud and committed. As student, I would say that my goals, I've planned to get my bachelor's in five years, in biology and go to medical school and you know, I, I feel like CSUN really opens doors for all of us as well as becoming aware that we are students as well who are pursuing a higher education in order to break barriers.

Speaker 1: 00:41 I see myself as a CSUN graduated. In general, I am pursuing my education for myself for my own future, but I am, I am. I am in hope of making myself proud as well as making them (parents) proud. The fact that I'm an undocumented student is not discouraged me. In fact, I feel more like empowered to actually to be able to basically.

Speaker 1: 01:13 I felt empowered since. Although, um, I don't have papers or I'm undocumented. I'm still, that's not holding me back. That's actually motivating me to not be another statistic. Thank you for letting me be a part of your project.

Volunteer 9:

Speaker 1: 00:03 CSUN is, um, give me opportunity safety and networking and it still feels like I'm trying to settle a since I've been moving constantly ever since I came to the U.S. and it's gotten a little better now that I got the DACA, so it gave me the opportunity to do something that I love doing, which is making art and design stuff. So it's just the experience of being an outsider. There's just always going to feel like that. Well, that's my experience. That's always been like that. I always want it to be an art director. That's when I'm, I am now. I'm an Art director, so that's one goal that I got accomplished. Um, I guess my future goals is just own my own house, so I stopped moving around. I guess that's my, that's my goal because I literally just be moving from place to place.

35 Speaker 1: 00:52 So I guess my last, if I own a house I wouldn't have to over and over again so that, um, but I want to go. The first thing I want to do was to go to Machu Picchu. Like it's always been like a dream to me. Like going to the, a ruins, going, they're going for a hike. I don't wanna take up bus or anything I want to hike it all the way through. Um, then I want to go to Mexico to visit family and places just being in the, in college, it wasn't hard. It was getting there. It was just trying to figure out how I was going to pay for it because um, when I went to school, if they had the 8540 a law which said that I could go in as um, like an in-state tuition if I had been in high school.

Speaker 1: 01:35 But he never said like, Oh, you're gonna get like financial aid, you know, never say like, oh, you can get money from here. From there it was always like, OK, so where do I get the money? Where do I find the money for this? So I had to apply for scholarships. I have to like work, I had to do many things, many things, you know, just to pass by. And um, it's not like you're an immigrant and you get benefits. It's always like, how are you going to get those benefits? So you're competitive with other students. It's always scrapping, you know, like for food, for anything, just just trying to get by. It's a different experience, like you're trying to survive and at the same time trying to get good grades so you can pass and just get over it, you know, like it's, it's different.

Speaker 1: 02:21 It's always like that. It's never, it's never ending until it's like, OK, what's next? You know, like, what's gonna happen if I do this, if I do that, can I even get a house if I don't have documents? Like, no, that's not going to happen to rent. How do you rent if you don't know, um, how to do that, you know, you need a credit score that you need a letter of someone saying that they're still gonna you're gonna be able to pay, you know, for rent or something like that. You know, like it's always needing, depending on someone else to help you out. And um, that's. I think that's the most frustrating thing about it that you always feel like you need to depend on someone to like kinda guide

36 you through. Like you can't be like, well I'm going to do this by myself. Like, no, it's going be harder there. So you have to like get as many resources as possible just to try to. You have to go through it.

37