Conversations with Charles Dodsley Walker, Part II Neal Campbell

Part 1 of this interview was published in the March 2010 issue of THE DIAPA- SON. Charles Dodsley Walker celebrated his 90th birthday on March 16. He is a Fellow of the American Guild of Organ- ists and is the founding director of the Canterbury Choral Society, which he began in 1952 at the Church of Heavenly Rest—a position he still holds, preparing and conducting three concerts per sea- son. Part I ended with Mr. Walker about to leave for France to serve as organist at the American Cathedral in Paris. NC: So, you’re in Paris. CDW: Yes, I’d longed to go to France; this was my fi rst time there. I’d been to a French-speaking country during the war—Algeria, on the way to Sicily. At Trinity College, I had immersed myself in the study of the French language and cul- ture, and this was a dream come true. Charles Dodsley Walker teaching air- I lived in the deanery—a lovely three- craft recognition while in the Navy, 1944 story stone building separated from the (Offi cial U.S. Navy photograph) cathedral by a garden. The church sexton was a man named Lucien; he was also a cathedral, as director of the American master chef, and he did a lot of things Students’ and Artists’ Center on the Left beside dust the church pews off, I’ll tell Bank—a beautiful building on what had you that! I lived there on the top fl oor of Brahms Requiem at the American Cathedral, Paris, 1949 been Chateaubriand’s estate. The place the deanery, and he would come up and had been closed up because the Ger- wake me up in the morning with a plate One of the things I tried to do was to concert I want to conduct your orches- mans had taken it over during the war. of what he called paingrillé, which was get more Americans in the choir. I had tra and do a concert with my chorus and a word I hadn’t learned in my study in a lot of French singers already in your orchestra.” All my life I’d wanted to NC: So this was an umbrella of the French, but it turns out it was actually there. They’d sing [mimicking the French do works for chorus and orchestra. Many cathedral or part of its ministry? two words, pain and grillé—toast. pronunciation of English] oly, oly, oly, of the orchestra players were members CDW: Yes, exactly, to students in Par- looord Gott uf osts, aven ant urse are fuel of Lamoreux Orchestra, which was an is. On the fi rst fl oor it had a theater with NC: Quite a few well-known Ameri- of zei gloory, so I was trying to get more important orchestra in Paris. So we did a balcony. It didn’t have a very big stage, can organists have held that post, Americans, and Janet [Hayes, later Mrs. the Palestrina Missa Brevis unaccompa- more of a lecturers’ stage than a theater haven’t they? CDW] was part of that campaign after nied, of course, and then his orchestra stage. And there was a big lounge, and a CDW: Yes, Robert Owen preceded we married. joined us for the Bach Magnifi cat. It was billiard room. On the second fl oor they me and Donald Wilkins followed me. One day after service, a little man recorded on acetate discs, which I still had a library and on the opposite wing They were great years over there, espe- came up to talk to me and said, “I am have, and it was broadcast over the Ra- was the director’s apartment. I had ad- cially if you were a Francophile. Pierre Duvauchelle and I am the con- diodiffusion Française. ministrative charge of the operations of ductor of the Paris Chamber Orchestra. I must have met Langlais by then, the center. NC: What were services like at the You have a beautiful acoustic here in the because I remember that he came to American Cathedral? They were in cathedral.” Well, he wanted to do a series that concert and complimented me on NC: And that’s where you lived? English, I assume? of three or four concerts at the cathedral. the Palestrina. He also brought along a CDW: That’s where we lived—I was CDW: Yes, they were just as if you And I thought quickly and said, “I will friend, a pupil I think, named Pierre Co- married by then. The apartment provid- were here in the States. Everything was see to it that you may have the use of the chereau, whom I met for the fi rst time. ed for the director was very comfortable. in English, we chanted the canticles and cathedral, heated and lighted, for the fi rst Not too long after I arrived, the dean The building was designed by prize-win- so forth. three concerts, and then for the fourth gave me a new job, in addition to the ning architect Welles Bosworth, who

Organ recital series, American Cathedral, Paris, 1949 Janet Hayes and Ned Rorem, American Embassy, Paris, 1950

24 THE DIAPASON

June 2010 pp. 24-29 .indd 24 5/12/10 9:18:59 AM Church of the Heavenly Rest, Fifth Avenue and 90th Street, City Bach, St. Matthew Passion, Canterbury Choral Society, Good Friday, 1957

had been J. D. Rockefeller’s architect him at the American Embassy; he ac- and they had been sent to Ernest Skin- and put the phone down. Then I called in charge of restoring Reims Cathedral. companied her. One of the things Bou- ner in America in order to learn from André Marchal, and repeated my story, He also designed all those buildings for langer did was to act as a resource to the him. The result was that it was a rather saying that Dupré had agreed to play, MIT along the Charles River that have American ambassador in Paris in pro- typical E. M. Skinner Solo division. It and would you do it, and he said yes. Of those rotundas. And several former Har- viding Franco-American musicians for had nice strings, a French Horn, one of course, if Dupré hadn’t agreed to do it, it vard students were over there—Robert concerts of the Cultural Relations of the the few in France, a Tuba Mirabilis, and might have been a different story. I didn’t Middleton, Noel Lee, Douglas Allan- American Embassy. And on this concert a Philomela which was huge! No chorus know Marchal from a hole in the ground! brook. Leon Fleisher was there at the Janet sang some of Ned’s songs. reeds, but, of course, there were 16, 8, It was the same with Langlais, Messiaen, time, also. Janet had gone to the New England and 4 reeds on the Great. and Durufl é. These names were legend, Conservatory on the recommendation of Anyway, I saw this organ and thought even back then. NC: Those were pretty heady years Eleanor Steber, and she won the Frank it would be nice to have a recital se- Then I called up Mlle. Boulanger, tell- to be in Paris; you must have met Huntington Beebe award for study ries. So I told the dean I’d like to invite ing her that I had asked each of these many well-known persons? abroad, which is what brought her to a bunch of famous French organists to eminent organists to conclude with an CDW: Yes, including Poulenc, and Paris. She knew Ned at the New Eng- play on this organ, and he said “Fine, improvisation, and asked her to submit notably Nadia Boulanger, whom I had land Conservatory and he dedicated a go ahead.” I wish I could remember the the themes for each of these players. I known from her time in Cambridge piece to her—A Sermon on Miracles, fee we paid them, but it was ridiculously must have caught her at a weak moment while I was at Harvard. A lot of people which we performed in his presence at small. I think it was 10,000 francs, which and she agreed. As it turns out, I had to were studying with her in Paris in those the Church of the Heavenly Rest many was about $30. chase her up each week to get the themes days. Janet studied with her. She was years later, in 1973. So, I picked up the phone—believe in time for the recital. It wasn’t that she Nadia’s favorite singer, and everyone We also toured throughout Germany it or not—and called Marcel Dupré, gave me all fi ve at once in advance. said she sang French songs better than during the summers of 1950, ’51, and ’52 whom I had met through Clarence Wat- the French did. under the auspices of the United States ters in this country. He was the only one NC: Was that part of the promotion- Department of State as part of a cultural I knew, and I didn’t call him Marcel, ei- al packaging of the series, that she NC: Boulanger didn’t teach voice, exchange program established after the ther! It was “Maître, would you be will- would be supplying the themes? did she? war. The state department wanted to ing to play on a series on this organ? I CDW: It wasn’t on the advertising, but CDW: No, she had been a very close present our musicians so the German want to help raise the reputation of the on the program I inserted a little slip sheet friend of Fauré, and coached singers people wouldn’t think we were all bar- American Cathedral as an artistic center stating that the themes for each of the im- working on his songs. She didn’t ex- barians. That was the whole point. There in Paris.” He agreed and I thanked him, provisations had been kindly submitted actly teach vocal technique. She said were American artists, poets, authors, some things I don’t agree with. For in- and musicians presenting their work all stance, she would say—I forget exactly over Germany. We performed in forty how she put it, but something like “Oh, different cities in West Germany during you don’t have to sing those songs in a those summers, playing a lot of Ameri- sexy way.” Well, many of Fauré’s songs can music, including works by Sowerby, are incredibly sexy and you do need to Piston, Bingham, Pinkham, Lukas Foss, bring that across. Her forte was teach- and Rorem—that was part of the propa- ing composition. ganda to show the Germans that we had One thing that Nadia did that was in- composers and performers, and that we fl uential was that every Wednesday she cared about these things. had a salon—a sort of open house—and While we were there we crossed paths young people who liked to trail on the with Daniel Pinkham and a young violin- footsteps of the stars would pop in on ist named Robert Brink, who were tour- Wednesday afternoons. ing doing the same thing. Actually, you were supposed to know her to show up at these. Well, one of the NC: There must have been many times I was there, Robert Shaw, who I Americans with whom you rendez- guess had heard of these, showed up, voused in Paris? and apparently he didn’t know her. I was CDW: Yes. Clarence Dickinson and sitting there with several others, and the Seth Bingham paid courtesy calls at the doorbell rang, and Nadia asked if I would cathedral. Thornton Wilder was a mem- answer the door, and when I did, it was ber of the bridal party for a wedding I Robert Shaw. I brought him in, intro- was playing, and I was introduced to him duced him, and Nadia was sitting there as if I were being introduced to the next- like a grand dame, which she was! door neighbor. A lot of people found So, he sat down and the rest of that their way to the American Cathedral. afternoon the conversation was all about how diffi cult it was to fi nd a garage to NC: Edouard Nies-Berger? park your car in Paris. There wasn’t a CDW: Yes, he visited at the cathedral word about Fauré and his use of modal- and at the Students’ and Artists’ Center. ity or anything musical like that! This He was a very friendly man. I also met is what was going on, and she was just Hugh Giles over there. I’d only spent a being friendly, and I don’t recall her ad- year in New York before coming to Paris, dressing a word to Bob Shaw. Nothing! so I hadn’t met many of the big name or- It was funny. ganists until they came through Paris. NC: Poulenc? NC: Tell me about the organ recital CDW: For some reason, I remember series you organized at the Ameri- having dinner with him at an outdoor res- can Cathedral. taurant on one of those avenues that lead CDW: When I got there I found out up to the Opéra. He hadn’t even written what a wonderful organ it was. It had his now-famous Gloria at this time. He been a big three-manual Cavaillé-Coll. gave quite a few small concerts with sing- In 1930 it was enlarged, and a fourth ers. There was this singer named Pierre manual added. It was one of the very Bernac, and Poulenc would accompany few organs in France at that time with him. I’d run into them a couple of times capture combination action. Leaving all and we were just friendly. that aside, it was a real Cavaillé-Coll, with wonderful reeds and an abundance NC: Ned Rorem must have been of everything you wanted. The Solo divi- around in those days. sion was not so big. It was built by Mai- CDW: Yes, Janet did a concert with son Pleyel, successors to Cavaillé-Coll,

JUNE, 2010 25

June 2010 pp. 24-29 .indd 25 5/12/10 9:19:24 AM At an event with AGO president Harold Heeremans, 1960

by Nadia Boulanger. The recitals were a to hear what it sounded like out in the week apart in Lent, and there were big church). And before he came to practice crowds and wide newspaper coverage. he said, “you know, I want to have some time there pour choisir mes couleurs, to NC: How did the organ in the Ameri- choose my colors.” And he went way up can Cathedral stack up in compari- in my estimation. But he was the most son with the famous Paris organs? concerned that it be a good recital. CDW: Well, for one thing, it was in The main thing I remember about better tune than any of the others, and Durufl é was that he arrived at the ap- At a rehearsal of Haydn’s Creation, with Ara Berberian, Blake Stern, and Louise that was because of the Germans. They pointed time outside the cathedral rid- Natalie, 1960 had taken over the cathedral and used it ing a bicycle. as their army church. Say what you will Jr.], Eddie West at the Cathedral [Canon things, including several television per- about their politics, but by golly if they NC: How did you happen to go back Edward N. West, later Sub-Dean of the formances: one with Victor Borge, on were going to have a Wehrmachtskirche, to New York? Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New a program at Christmas time—just be- it was going to have an organ that was CDW: One of the real reasons I want- York]—I mean personal friends who cause it was Christmas time and I had a in tune. So the organ was in great shape ed to come back was, as you can imagine, were in a position to be helpful and who boys’ choir. when I got there. It was amazing. that I was so busy being the director of knew my work. Talk about TV—I did later do a pro- the Center—I think we had fi ve or six gram with CCS with Robert Merrill on NC: Did you have an opportunity to hundred members. It wasn’t a musical NC: What was the musical tradition “I’ve Got a Secret,” and the secret was hear any of these organists in their job at all, but it was my full-time job, and at Heavenly Rest as you found it? the star, it was his birthday. So, in the own churches? the cathedral position was secondary. CDW: For one thing, there was an as- course of the show, they had a barber- CDW: Very little. Durufl é, for exam- So when I found out that Heavenly sistant organist I inherited, so that made shop quartet sing “Happy Birthday” to ple, at St.-Etienne-du-Mont didn’t have Rest had an opening, I made every ef- a smooth transition. I had never heard a him. Then they laughed and scratched the organ; it was down. I don’t think he fort to look into it. It was the Rev. Rich- service there previously, but my impres- for a while, then a larger group came in had any organ to play. With all my duties, ard R. P. Coombs, who had been a tenor sion was that it was pretty run of the mill. and they sang “Happy Birthday” to him. I didn’t get to other churches very often. in my choir in Cambridge and who had They did have a men and boys choir, but And they laughed and scratched and did In retrospect, I certainly wish I could gone to seminary during the war, and with some female ringers in it. One of some more things. Meanwhile, there have heard more. I did go to Ste. Clo- who had told me of the opening at the my so-called claims to being a candidate was a stage at the other end of the studio tilde from time to time, because I was Paris Cathedral—he was now the curate was that I was considered experienced with the curtains closed, and at the giv- very close to Langlais. at Heavenly Rest and told me of the va- at dealing with boys. And I built up that en point, the curtains were opened and One thing that might be of interest cancy there. choir a lot, until, one fi ne day when ev- there were one hundred members of the is my impressions of these great men as ery one of the best boys I had, every one Canterbury Choral Society and Robert they came to the cathedral to practice. NC: So he had a hand in your going of them—let’s say there were thirty kids, Merrill in the middle of them to put the For one thing, I was . . . skeptical is too to Paris and in your coming back to and the eight best ones either went off fi nishing touches of “Happy Birthday” in strong a word, but I was not convinced New York? to prep school or their voices changed. a paraphrase of a Mozart opera chorus, that every note that Messiaen wrote CDW: He did! And with what I had left, I felt I really as I recall. That was a lot of fun. down was for real, or whether he was couldn’t do the repertoire, so I wrote trying for effect in one way or the other. NC: What sort of process did you the vestry saying I thought we needed NC: What was the organ like at But of all those organists, Messiaen was have to go through when you ap- to strengthen the women’s sections, and Heavenly Rest as you found it? the one who practiced the longest; he ac- plied for the job? from that time you really couldn’t say it CDW: It was a 1929 Austin, and it tually got me in there and asked me to CDW: I simply wrote to anybody who was a boy choir. had either three or four 8-foot diapasons play some passages (and I’d never even was anybody who knew my work—Frank Still, we continued to have a boy choir on the Great and they were all leather played any of his music, but he wanted Sayre [the Very Rev. Francis B. Sayre, as a separate choir, and we did lots of lipped. It was a big four-manual organ, with a typical complement of stops on each division, except it only had about four ranks in the Pedal! It did have a drawknob console. Anyway, it was like a /44/(%533/2'!.0!243 whole set of foghorns. NC: It must have been quite a dif- 4RADITIONAND0ROGRESS ference from the Cavaillé-Coll at the Paris Cathedral? CDW: It sure was! I had correspon- &ORMORETHANYEARSWEHAVEBEENDESIGNINGANDBUILDINGORGAN dence with G. Donald Harrison about CONSOLES CHASSISANDPARTSASWELLASCOMPLETEMECHANICALAND ways to improve the organ, and he sug- ELECTRICALTRACKERANDREGISTRATIONSYSTEMSFORPIPEORGANS gested ways to brighten up the Great reeds, which Austin revoiced to have a little more overtone interest, a little more /URENTHUSIASMnCOUPLEDWITHTHEOPPORTUNITIESPROVIDEDBY French sound. Of course I later had Aus- MODERNTECHNOLOGYANDFUELLEDBYOURGENUINEEXCITEMENTFOR tin completely renovate the organ. EXPERIMENTSnlNDSEXPRESSIONINTHECONTINUOUSFURTHERDEVELOP MENTOFTHE/44/(%533RANGEOFPRODUCTSANDSERVICES NC: I’m eager to hear you talk about the beginnings of the Canterbury Choral Society. 7HATEVERYOUTOUCHANDHEARINORGANBUILDING CDW: Well, one day the rector came 9OULLALWAYSCOMEACROSSONEOFOURIDEAS to me and said, “Charlie, all the big churches have Evensong on Sunday %VERYWHEREANDAROUNDTHEWORLD afternoons at 4:00. The Cathedral has Evensong, St. Thomas has Evensong, St. /44/(%533n9OURCREATIVEPARTNERINORGANBUILDING Bartholomew’s has Evensong. What’s the matter with us? Let’s have some Even- song services.” So I said, “Well, you know we have a paid choir, you’re talking about some serious changes in the budget.” He /44/(%533'MB(n'ERMANY said, “Just get a bunch of volunteers.” 0HONE ns&AX n [Huge laughter from each of us.] And so E -AILHALLO OTTOHEUSSDEs)NTERNETWWWOTTOHEUSSDE I said, “Yes, sir.” So I talked to some of the paid singers and asked if they would volunteer to start this Evensong choir and they said they would.

26 THE DIAPASON

June 2010 pp. 24-29 .indd 26 5/12/10 9:19:49 AM Charles Dodsley Walker in rehearsal, 1960 With Jean Langlais, 1967 NC: Did he have in mind doing this At this time it was rare to have an or- every Sunday? chestra in church. I think Trinity Church fundraising duties. Did the church The next big thing that happened is CDW: I think he did, but we started may have had one on Ascension Day, recognize this in any way, such as a that Eleanor Steber came into the pic- out doing them just in Advent. and St. Mary the Virgin from time to salary raise? ture. She was a big star at the Met by this time. But the norm was to do oratorios CDW: It was more work, but not more time, but we had known her previously NC: Did he have any idea what he with organ accompaniment, and there compensation. I was making $4,000 a and we were together at a dinner party was asking for, do you think? were organists who did it very well—I’ve year, and I don’t think they raised that one night. After dinner and much of our CDW: No! mentioned David McK. Williams. But in my fi rst decade at the church. But I host’s fi ne Perrier Jouet champagne, I performing these works with the instru- loved what I was doing, and I had a nice went up to her and said, “Eleanor, my NC: Was this typical of his approach mentation as envisioned by the compos- school job. From 1952–61 I was direc- choral society is going to be singing the to work? er was something I really wanted to do. tor of music at Kew-Forest School out Brahms Requiem with orchestra in about CDW: No, he was really a fi ne man Of course this took money, so we set up on Long Island in Forest Hills. Up until a month and a half and I don’t have a and smart, but he just had this idea and a system of membership—friends, spon- then, I really had been living from hand soprano soloist yet; will you do it?” And hadn’t really thought it out. I can imagine sors, and so forth. For the fi rst season of to mouth. The school had a Hammond she said, “Brahms Requiem, I love that that from other clergy I’ve known! [More this new plan, we had two sponsors at organ, and the headmaster loved organ work—sure, I’ll do it.” For $100, by the laughter.] Anyway, some of the members $25 each, and one was my father! music and was thrilled to have someone way! [Laughing.] She sang for me once in the choir were personal friends by on his staff who knew about the organ. again and I paid her $100, and she sent it this time and said that they would try it NC: Was this under the aegis of the I was involved in the Guild more and back! She wasn’t interested in the mon- for a while, and so forth. And one of the church? more at that time, and he would excuse ey, she was a good friend. I mean, she vestrymen was a former member of the CDW: It was a choir of the church, me from staff meetings and classes when was a big star at the Met by this time, Harvard Glee Club, and he said he would but membership was open to anyone Guild duties confl icted. His name was singing all the Mozart , Rosenka- be glad to volunteer to sing . He had who could pass the audition. I handled Dr. James L. Dixon, and he was a lovely valier, and so forth. She also had a radio a daughter who taught at the Chapin it as a choir of the church, in that the person to work for. I distinctly remember program. This was in 1955 and she was School, and he talked her into getting professional singers of the church the job paid $3,400. Well, to jump from really famous. friends of hers from Chapin to come sing choir were required to sing in it, and $4,000 to $7,400—it was just wonderful! So, having secured Eleanor Steber in this volunteer Evensong choir. the assistant organist was the accom- Of course, it was hard working two jobs. to sing the soprano solo, I pulled out So, I said we were going to do a cho- panist. But a big part of my time in By the way, it so happens that one of the same technique I had used in Paris! rus from Messiah on each of the fi rst those days was spent raising money for my students there was Donald Trump. I picked up the phone and called John three Sundays in Advent, and on the this new organization. He was one of these kids who needed Brownlee, one of the leading baritones fourth Sunday we would get some in- personal attention. There would be at the Met who worked with Eleanor all struments and do the entire fi rst part NC: From a practical point of view, twenty kids in the room and you’d have the time, especially in Mozart operas. of Messiah. It was quite successful; we this must have doubled your work to focus on him. He could sing all right, And I said, “Mr. Brownlee, I’m doing had between thirty and forty singers, and load: a big additional choir and but he was diffi cult. the Brahms Requiem, isn’t it a wonderful the soloists were professionals from the church choir. In every case, the choir outnumbered the congregation. So the rector said, “OK, we’re not the Cathe- dral, we’re not St. Bartholomew’s, we’re not St. Thomas, nobody’s coming to our Evensongs, so let’s forget it.” Then, when I told the chorus that they were no longer needed, they said “We like singing here and want to keep com- ing.” This was Advent of 1951, after I ar- rived in January. So, I asked, “How would you like to sing Brahms’ Requiem?” And they said, “Won- derful.” And more people joined. So we put on the Brahms in the spring of 1952. We billed ourselves as the Oratorio Choir of the Church of the Heavenly Rest. The concert was a success. We had harp and timpani in addition to the organ accompaniment, which was played by my assistant, Marion Engle. Anyway, after we did this successfully, we had a meeting and everyone wanted this organization to be permanent. So I said, “Well, we’ve got to have a name for ourselves, how about the Carnegie Hill Choral Society?” You know that part of Manhattan is called Carnegie Hill, the Carnegie mansion is across the street from the church. They felt that it sounded too much like Carn- egie Hall Choral Society, and so forth, and someone suggested Canterbury Choral Society. We were Anglican, after all, even though this was to be a commu- nity chorus, and so the name chosen was Canterbury Choral Society.

JUNE, 2010 27

June 2010 pp. 24-29 .indd 27 5/12/10 9:20:11 AM With Lee Hastings Bristol, Jr., 1972

David and Grace, sang in my choir. It was he who put the idea in my head that there are lots of important choral works that feature children’s choirs, and encouraged me to do that. So, for this Berlioz we had Teaching at the Chapin School, 1975 scores and scores of children in the cho- rus, from Brearley School chorus—this was in 1968 and I was already teaching at the Chapin School, so we had the Chapin Chorus, and others . . . lots of children. NC: What prompted you to have the concert at the cathedral, as opposed to Heavenly Rest? Space? CDW: In addition to that, we were celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Church of the Heavenly Rest, and I took the position that we ought to observe the occasion at the cathedral church. NC: Was this the fi rst time CCS had As the new president of the AGO on the held a concert off the campus of cover of Music, 1971 Heavenly Rest? CDW: [Thinking for a while.] No. work?” “Oh, yes it’s a wonderful work,” Nineteen fi fty-nine was the 200th an- he replied in his deep voice. And I con- niversary of Handel’s death, so all the tinued, “Eleanor Steber is going to be my musicians of New York collaborated in soprano and I need a really good bari- a citywide Handel festival. I decided to tone. Would you do it?” [Laughing] He do Handel’s Samson. We did that at St. was an Australian, did you know that? Thomas Church, since it was in Mid- town nearer where the other concerts Conducting Mahler’s Eighth Symphony, Carnegie Hall, 1987 NC: I did not know that. were held. Ara Berberian sang the bass CDW: So he said [Imitating an Aus- lead. We also had a choir of girls, be- particularly a Haydn Creation she did— type school, his mother was quite a lib- tralian accent] “Well, if Eleanor is going cause in Samson, Delilah has an entou- a very good, really top-notch singer, and eral thinker for that era . . . to do it, of course I’ll do it. Count me in.” rage that in the score is called “Delilah’s very funny and down to earth. I think her So, that really packed the house. This Virgins,” but I called them, to be dis- husband was a fi refi ghter in Nutley, New NC: She was the famous artist, Alice was our third season, March 1955. I was creet, “Delilah’s Handmaidens.” [Much Jersey, or someplace like that. Neel? just lucky to have an “in” with a couple of laughter.] Anyway, it was broadcast by And I’ve mentioned Ara Berberian. CDW: Yes. Richard and his brother these prominent people. the Voice of America all over the world. He had been a lawyer, and he was in the sang in my boy choir, and we encouraged And then, I’d call up people I didn’t I got a tape of it later. So that was a big Army Chorus in Washington. He sang in the boys to bring in friends. The choir up know who were at the Met, and just event, in 1959. the Heavenly Rest choir for a while when to that point was lily white, and Richard asked them. I had Jean Kraft as my alto, And then our appearances on televi- he fi rst came to New York, brought in this African-American boy; and Shirley Love, Ara Berberian—he sion . . . I guess it was in the 1950s that The fi rst time I did the Verdi Requiem, I auditioned him, and he was good! So was an old friend. I gave him his fi rst we did the most TV dates. I had Ellen Faull as the soprano. The I took him into the choir. I later got a paid date in New York. mezzo was Rosalind Elias, who was a phone call—I remember the unpleasant NC: Was there someone at the church big star at the Met and a friend of Janet’s tone of the voice—from the mother of NC: In a nutshell, it sounds like the in broadcasting who facilitated these from New England Conservatory. I then one of the other boys in the choir say- Canterbury Choral Society took off appearances? found out that these two were part of a ing, “you took a black boy into the choir right from the start. CDW: As a matter of fact, yes. The road company that would travel around without consulting with us.” And I said, CDW: Yes, it really did. The next father of two of my choirboys—one of the country giving concerts. And the “Yes, I did!” thing we had Eleanor for was the Mo- whom was Philip Morehead, who later other two were Gabor Corelli, another zart C-minor Mass. She was soprano I became the director of the Chicago Lyric Met singer, and Louis Sgarro, whom I re- NC: Did it ever go further than that? and Phyllis Curtin was soprano II. Mack Opera Chorus—was related to the direc- member particularly as being mentioned To the rector or vestry? Harrell was the bass, and David Lloyd tor of the CBS studio orchestra, so I did by the announcers at the Met broadcasts. CDW: No, but can you imagine the was the tenor. have an entree through him. And some So I thought it was really something to nerve of that woman? I think I did tell good-looking gal in CCS was the casting have four well-known Metropolitan Op- the rector about it and he said that I NC: I sense that the social aspect director of “I’ve Got a Secret.” That’s how era stars to sing my Verdi Requiem! And should ignore that telephone call. of CCS is important now. Was it al- we got on that show with Robert Merrill. we packed them in. ways? We did the Bloch Sacred Service, and NC: You talked once about Thomas CDW: I think it was. And I think that NC: You worked with a lot of well- Arthur Wolfson, the cantor of Temple Beveridge; can you tell me a little perhaps is the thing that differentiates known soloists over the years. At the Emanu-El, sang the part of the cantor. more about him? it from many other choral groups. They risk of appearing to be name drop- We did it again with Howard Nevison, CDW: Tom was in my choir at the love to party. And they love to sing. ping, who among them stands out? who was an excellent cantor at Emanu- age of nine, and he was an ideal cho- CDW: Well, in addition to Eleanor El after Wolfson. rister in every way, bright and tal- NC: I know that you later presented Steber and John Brownlee whom I men- Seth McCoy . . . he sang with us sev- ented. I was honored that his father, the Mahler Eighth Symphony at reg- tioned . . . Adele Addison who sang a lot; eral times . . . Lowell Beveridge—one of the most ular intervals, but prior to that, what people like Robert Shaw used her. distinguished members of our profes- were some of the early high points? Donald Gramm was a star at the Met, NC: Was that ever an issue at Heav- sion—was encouraging his boy to be CDW: We did the Berlioz Te Deum at and he sang a lot for us, particularly the enly Rest in those days? The racial in my choir. For many years I didn’t the Cathedral [of St. John the Divine] and Vaughan Williams Five Mystical Songs, I thing? see Tom, but he later became a singer, that was tremendous. I struck up a friend- remember. He was just one of those peo- CDW: Yes . . . yes it was. You know and I hired him for a performance. His ship with Hugh Ross, who was a leading ple I was fortunate enough to be able to there’s a kook in every crowd, and . . . father, Lowell Beveridge, was the di- musician of the city for years. He was the call and ask, “Are you available on May you remember Richard Neel who sings rector of music at St. Paul’s Chapel at director of the Schola Cantorum, which 14?,” and he would if he could. in CCS? Columbia University, which used to be did all of the choral work with the New Louise Natale was the soloist at Riv- a big job. Searle Wright was his succes- York Philharmonic; he taught at Spence erside Church for Richard Weagley, and NC: Yes. sor. Lowell went from there to Virginia School and Hewitt School, and his kids, she was really wonderful. I remember CDW: He went to some advanced- Theological Seminary.

28 THE DIAPASON

June 2010 pp. 24-29 .indd 28 5/12/10 9:20:34 AM Marriage to Lise Phillips, 2001 With Neal Campbell, 2010

NC: So as a result you had to have raising, but that has been the pattern. teacher as being an exemplary practitioner some fundraisers. But it’s remarkable—it actually makes of the art of church music, as an organ- CDW: Yes, you’re leading up to the money! Everybody loses money on a big ist, as a choirmaster, and as a teacher— Mahler! I fi rst became aware of the production like that, but we charge the Coke-Jephcott. He was a hard-working, Mahler Eighth Symphony when I was market price for tickets, and have good, dedicated musician in the service of the AGO president. I went into the offi ce loyal fi nancial backing from our friends church. He was a real inspiration. one day (this was back when the of- and patrons. fi ces were at 630 Fifth Avenue across NC: I know that by nature you are an the street from St. Patrick’s Cathedral) NC: After Heavenly Rest, you took optimistic person not inclined to the and picked up a copy of Cathedral Age up a new job, didn’t you? negative, but from your perspective, [magazine of Washington National Ca- CDW: Yes, for almost twenty years I what could be better these days? thedral] and read about Paul Callaway was at Trinity Church in Southport, Con- CDW: I do think it is regrettable—this doing the Mahler at Washington Cathe- necticut, where there already existed the tendency on the part of some, to make dral; I salivated at the idea of this huge Trinity Chorale, a choral society. We did musical choices refl ecting the tastes of choral work, and just wondered if we concerts there, and they joined with CCS people with no musical background at could pull this off. on occasions, as well. all, with the result that music of inferior So, fi rst we programmed Part I, which Incidentally, Lise and I were mar- quality has, in many places, risen into is only 25 minutes long, and paired it ried there in the context of the regular such prominence in church life; whereas with Jean Kraft singing the Kinderto- Sunday morning service, which is sort music of good quality could be lifting up tenlieder. I arranged for hundreds of of unusual. [Janet Hayes Walker died the noble and worthy aspects of worship kids from various schools and churches in 1997.] We had a full choir, and it was to their rightful place. to sing the Knabenchor and we put this really wonderful. That was on Janu- on at Heavenly Rest. By then we had the ary 14, 2001. I had met Lise Phillips NC: You’ve never really retired, have tradition of doing a concert every fi ve as a singer in CCS. The wedding was a you? years at either Philharmonic Hall [later big community affair. Everyone in the CDW: No! I just love doing what I do, 2004 portrait named Avery Fisher Hall] or Carnegie church was invited to the wedding and playing, conducting, teaching. I would Hall. So the next fi fth-year anniversary to the reception, which was arranged feel strange not doing it, but guess you NC: We haven’t talked a lot about was in 1977. We already had Part I un- by CCS. And quite a few members of can’t do it forever. I’m just very glad to church life at Heavenly Rest. What der our belts, so we took the bit in our Canterbury came out to Connecticut, be here. were services like? teeth and hired Philharmonic Hall, and sat up in the gallery and sang along CDW: They were sort of middle-to- I got hold of hundreds of kids, eight with the church choir. NC: As you refl ect on your long ca- low church—Morning Prayer and all soloists, and the huge orchestra. I went reer, for what would you like most to that. And they had lots of extremely into it with fear and trepidation, but we NC: What do you admire about be remembered? fancy weddings, sometimes in question- pulled it off. We packed the place and church music or church life in gen- CDW: I feel that being a good church able taste. The one I remember most did it again in ’82. Then I decided to do eral these days—what’s changed for musician, doing your job from Sunday clearly was a bride who came up to me it in Carnegie Hall in ’87, then in ’92, ’97, the better since the early days of to Sunday, is a very worthy thing, and and said, “I’ve been to some of your ’02, and of course in ’07 when St. Luke’s your career? if you have the good fortune to be able concerts and I know you know how to participated with us. CDW: [Longer pause than usual.] to develop more elaborate musical pro- conduct an orchestra.” I said, “Sure.” And we made enough money on grams—that’s good, too. But our job as She said, “I’d like to have an orchestra at those concerts to cover the annual defi - NC: Maybe nothing! [Both laugh- church musicians is to provide, with the my wedding,” and requested that we do cits for the next fi ve years. We’re in a ing.] resources available, the best possible the Siegfried Idyll—you know, the piece little downturn right now in this econ- CDW: No, that’s a good question, one music for our church, week by week. I that Wagner composed for his wife on omy and need to do a bit more fund- that makes you think. I think of my fi rst like that. ■ Christmas morning. So I had to have a pretty big orchestra. Custom builder of pipe, combination NC: Talk about the Blue Hill Troupe that you directed for a long time. and all-digital organs CDW: This is a wonderful organiza- tion that does Gilbert and Sullivan op- eras. During my time, we did every one of the thirteen operas at least twice, with full pit orchestra and staging, which I liked a lot. I became the director in 1955 and stayed for thirty-fi ve years. Wicks NC: When you left Heavenly Rest, did that alter the life of CCS? Organ Company CDW: Musically it didn’t affect it at all. We had to go through all the legali- ties of making it an independent non- profi t organization, separate from the church. We still had most of our concerts at the church, where I now had the title of Organist and Choirmaster Emeritus. 1100 5th St. The church gave us an offi ce and storage space for music. But we did have to fi nd the money to pay the professional sing- Highland IL 62249 ers and the accompanist, and we paid the church for using the facilities. 877-654-2191 THE WANAMAKER ORGAN Listen to it worldwide over the Internet! Hourlong streamcasts are featured at 5pm ET the first Opus 3047 Sunday of each month at wrti.org www.wicks.com Basilica of St. Mary Minneapolis, MN

JUNE, 2010 29

June 2010 pp. 24-29 .indd 29 5/12/10 9:20:54 AM