Thursday Volume 672 27 February 2020 No. 31

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 27 February 2020 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2020 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 447 27 FEBRUARY 2020 448

Angela Richardson: I thank my right hon. Friend for House of Commons her previous answer and it is great to see her on the Front Bench. Ninety-nine per cent. of businesses registered in are SMEs. What steps is the Minister Thursday 27 February 2020 taking to simplify the bureaucracy involved and minimise the cost to SMEs of quoting for Government business? The House met at half-past Nine o’clock. : I congratulate my hon. Friend on the work that she is doing for all the businesses in PRAYERS Guildford. We have committed to removing barriers to small businesses in our commercial arrangements, and have already removed the complex pre-qualification [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] questionnaires that people used to have to fill out for even low-value contracts. We will continue to look at other ways that we can ensure that SMEs have maximum Oral Answers to Questions opportunity to bid for work. Saqib Bhatti: I welcome the Minister’s comments. Does she recognise the role that business support CABINET OFFICE organisations play—such as the Institute of Directors, the Federation of Small Businesses, the British Chambers of Commerce and local enterprise partnerships, which The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister lead on the growth hubs—in helping to bridge the for the Cabinet Office was asked— knowledge gap for SMEs that have to deal with such difficult processes? Small and Medium-sized Businesses: Government Contracts Penny Mordaunt: I thank my hon. Friend for the opportunity to pay tribute to those business organisations, 1. Dr () (Con): What plans he and it is great to see him in this place, with all his has to support small and medium-sized businesses in expertise in this area. Those organisations play a critical bidding for Government contracts. [900971] role, and we must listen to what they are saying and look at ways to increase the opportunities for all their 7. Angela Richardson (Guildford) (Con): What plans members. We want to improve our communications and he has to support small and medium-sized businesses in relationships with those organisations. bidding for Government contracts. [900978] Greg Smith: Small businesses often tell me that late 13. Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con): What plans he has payments are a significant concern when bidding for to support small and medium-sized businesses in bidding not just Government contracts, but all contracts with for Government contracts. [900984] large companies. What steps can my right hon. Friend outline to ensure that there is a level playing field for 17. Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con): What plans he small businesses applying for Government contracts? has to support small and medium-sized businesses in bidding for Government contracts. [900990] Penny Mordaunt: We want SMEs to have confidence that they can bid for work. The prompt payment measure, The Paymaster General (Penny Mordaunt): We have which was introduced last September, has been a key introduced measures to tackle barriers faced by SMEs part of the Government’s work to focus on breaking in the procurement process. In the last financial year, we down those barriers for small and medium-sized enterprises. spent almost £2 billion more with SMEs than we did in Suppliers that do not comply with that will be struck the preceding year. off, and we have done that. There is more that we are looking at; my hon. Friend will know that there is Dr Wallis: In my constituency of Bridgend in south debate about channelling some of the fines for those Wales, the SME market will be absolutely key to making with poor practice into compensation for small enterprises. a success of . Will my right hon. Friend commit to working with the devolved Administrations, so that Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): All the friendly all parts of the UK will see progress when it comes to questions from the Whips Office do not hide the reality, SMEs accessing Government contracts? which is that the Government have had 10 years to get this right. More small businesses than ever have given Penny Mordaunt: I congratulate my hon. Friend up trying to win Government contracts, and I am afraid on all the work that he has been doing to open up that the figures do not stack up; they are worse now opportunities for his constituents, and particularly SMEs than when the Government came in. When will they and entrepreneurs. I can commit to, and have already stop giving the lion’s share of lucrative Government had, conversations with the devolved nations. The contract contracts to the Carillions of this world and start finder that the Department has set up, offering greater treating our excellent small businesses fairly? transparency about those opportunities, is just one way that we are assisting, and I would be happy to meet him Penny Mordaunt: I notice that there were no facts in to discuss other ways that we can support his efforts to that question. If the hon. Member looks at the facts, he ensure that all his constituents have maximum opportunity. will see that a greater and growing number of small and 449 Oral Answers 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 450 medium-sized enterprises are registering to become we should stand by measures to deal with it. We should suppliers. He will see that 12 Departments in particular be on the side of the victims of that crime, whose voices are massively increasing the amount of work that they are taken away—indeed, stolen—by such fraud. That is are doing with small enterprises. Rather than criticising a good reason why this was in our manifesto, on which, my Government colleagues, he might like to start standing I gently remind my right hon. Friend, we both stood. up for small businesses in his constituency. Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab): Of course John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): I think there is unanimity those citizens whose voices are taken away because they across the House about the need to improve access to do not have photographic ID are also victims. As the Government contracts for small and medium-sized Minister is concerned about fraudulent votes, can she enterprises, but I would prefer it if they were British tell the House how many fraudulent votes were prevented small and medium-sized enterprises. What action will in each of the pilot areas? the Secretary of State take to amend Government procurement regulations so that Departments can start Chloe Smith: As I have already said, evaluations of to prioritise British firms, British products and employment the pilots set out a range of data. The hon. Gentleman’s of British workers? question is not the sort that can easily be answered, as I hope the more cerebral Members of the House will Penny Mordaunt: The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely understand. That is because it is hard to put a figure on right. He knows this Administration are focused on crime that is deterred. The question Labour Front increasing opportunities across every part of this country. Benchers really have to answer is: in the dying days of Now that we have left the EU, we will have new this Labour Front-Bench team, whose side is Labour opportunities as we design the future procurement rules. on, given that the Leader of the Opposition employed a I hope that both sides of the House can come together convicted electoral fraudster in his office? behind that work, so that we have maximum opportunity for every part of the UK. Mr William Wragg (Hazel Grove) (Con): May I say what a pleasure it is to see such a well stocked Treasury Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Can the Minister Bench for Cabinet Office questions, and how much I am confirm that post Brexit, contracts’ scoring metrics will looking forward to working with these Ministers? I am be able to add weight for local builders, so that we can sure the feeling is mutual. In the excellent Conservative keep the money in the local economy? manifesto, the Government said they would set up a constitution, democracy and rights commission to address Penny Mordaunt: As the hon. Gentleman knows, we these matters. Will my hon. Friend expand on the scope, are considering what reforms we can bring in. We have remit and timing of that commission? set out clearly the principle that this is not just about the immediate return on investment; it is about the long-term Chloe Smith: I welcome my hon. Friend to his post as opportunities that procurement would open up for every the new Chair of the Select Committee on Public part of the UK. Administration and Constitutional Affairs. I look forward to working with him, as do all the members of the team Voter Identification: Voting Fraud here this morning. The commission will examine broader aspects of the constitution in more depth and make 2. Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): proposals to restore trust in our institutions and in how Whether his Department has made an assessment of our democracy operates. Full details will be announced the extent to which the use of voter identification will in due course. Careful consideration is required, and I tackle voter fraud. [900972] am confident that there will be high-quality discussion of the proposals with the Select Committee. The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith): The Government are committed to introducing voter European Union: Future Relationship ID, as well as extra postal and proxy voting measures, to reduce the potential for electoral fraud in order to 3. Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich) give the public greater confidence that our elections are (Lab): What recent progress the Government have made secure. Evaluation by the Electoral Commission and on negotiating the UK’s future relationship with the the Cabinet Office of the pilots we ran shows that they EU. [900973] were a success, and that public confidence in the electoral system was higher in the areas involved. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (): Now that we Mr Davis: The Minister will be unsurprised to hear have honoured the wishes of the British people and got that I am unimpressed by this illiberal idea. The Electoral Brexit done, we will publish later today detailed aspects Commission says that fraud relating to proxy voting, of our future relationship with the European Union, postal voting, bribery, undue influence or tampering and I shall be making a statement after these questions. with ballot papers, on which voter ID will have no Formal negotiations will begin next week. effect, accounts for three quarters of electoral fraud, so what are we doing about that? Matthew Pennycook: When it comes to the negotiations that will begin next week, no one knows what the Chloe Smith: As I mentioned, we are looking at a Government’s bottom line is, and we will not find out range of measures, including ways to improve the security until later this year, but will the Minister explain to the of postal and proxy voting. It is important to recognise House today why on earth the Government believe that that electoral fraud in any form is a crime, which is why the reputational damage that will be inflicted, not just 451 Oral Answers 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 452 in EU capitals but around the world, by our casual throughout the country, so that no veteran suffers reneging on a number of commitments set out in the disadvantage because of his or her service. The Prime political declaration, which was signed in good faith Minister has shifted the dial in respect of what it means with the EU after the recent general election, is a price to be an armed forces veteran in this country, and I am worth paying? determined to make this the best place on earth in which to be one. Michael Gove: I have great respect for the hon. Gentleman, but I am afraid that his question is wholly Darren Henry: Does my hon. Friend agree that the misconceived. We have absolutely no intention of doing ex-service personnel already working in the civil service anything other than honouring the withdrawal agreement, bring invaluable skills and experience learned from the honouring the protocol that we have signed, and making armed forces, and that guaranteeing veterans interviews sure that we achieve the political declaration’s aim of for civil service jobs will boost the employment prospects ensuring that we have a comprehensive free trade agreement of residents of Broxtowe and improve the civil service? with no tariffs, no quotas and no quantitative restrictions. Johnny Mercer: I pay tribute to my hon. Friend, and Sir (New Forest West) (Con): Does thank him for his question. It is clear that in this my right hon. Friend think the EU has spotted that we country we are moving away from the idea that we have actually left and no longer need to negotiate our should give veterans a job just to keep them busy, and terms of release? are recognising the incredible skills and attributes that they bring to any job in society following 10 or 15 years Michael Gove: My right hon. Friend has made a very of what has been pretty hard combat over the last few good point. There are a range of views—a spectrum of years. I pay tribute to those in the civil service, and to opinions—in European capitals, but I think that the those who lead the way so that others can come through pennies, the pfennigs and the centimes are dropping behind them. as a result of the Prime Minister’s speeches and the lecture given recently by the Prime Minister’s sherpa David Frost. Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab): Let me begin by saying that, with permission, my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) Veterans: Employment and I will be leaving this Question Time early to take part in an armed forces parliamentary scheme visit. I 4. Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab): What plans the am sure the House will understand that no discourtesy Government have to improve veterans’ employment is intended. prospects. [900975] The Forces in Mind Trust reports that veterans experience a postcode lottery when looking for work, and fewer 21. Darren Henry (Broxtowe) (Con): What steps the than half of those in the north say that it was easy to Office for Veterans’ Affairs is taking to support veterans find employment. Is the Minister assured that support to gain employment in the public sector. [900995] for veterans is being sent to where it is needed most in order to tackle that regional inequality? The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer): Veterans offer a vast range of skills and talent to employers, and we want to see more of them working Johnny Mercer: Regional inequality is a key factor in throughout the economy. We are making it easier for what the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is trying to do. them to join the civil service, introducing a national Today we have the latest figures from the career transition insurance break for their employers,and investing £5 million partnership, and we have more people going into work in Jobcentre Plus armed forces champions. and education than ever before. In fact, people are now more likely to be in employment if they are a veteran, Chris Elmore: It is concerning that 18% of UK businesses but we are not complacent about that in any way. There surveyed said that they would be unlikely to take on is no reason why anybody coming out of the military former armed forces personnel because of negative cannot go into a job, which is the single biggest perceptions of those who had served in the forces. Both transformative factor in improving their life chances. the Minister and I know that the armed forces actually provide skills for life that can be brought into different Relocating Public Bodies sectors. I warmly welcome the decision by the Cabinet Office to guarantee interviews to former armed forces 5. Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con): What plans he personnel if they meet essential criteria, which is already has to relocate public bodies out of the south-east. being done in my Bridgend County Borough Council area. What more can the Minister do—including making [900976] representations to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster—to ensure that the scheme is implemented 9. Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con): across Government? What plans he has to relocate public bodies out of the south-east. [900980] Johnny Mercer: The whole concept of the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is about making experience of being a The Minister without Portfolio (): The veteran equal across the country. We are introducing Government are committed to levelling up across the the scheme that the hon. Member mentions later in the UK, and relocating roles to the regions and nations year, and we are also introducing legislation to ensure of the UK. The Places for Growth programme in the that the armed forces covenant is implemented correctly Cabinet Office is driving the necessary planning within 453 Oral Answers 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 454

Departments and public bodies, and a commitment to process for certain roles, but it is an embryonic organisation relocating 3,000 roles within public bodies has already that is finding its way through Government, and I look been secured. forward to giving my hon. Friend an update in writing later in the year. Peter Gibson: I thank my right hon. Friend for her answer, and I welcome her to her place. Darlington Office for Veterans’ Affairs: Mental Health Support remains a transport hub for our entire region, thanks to the hard work of our excellent combined authority Mayor, Ben Houchen. Teesside airport has reopened 8. James (Bracknell) (Con): What steps Tees Valley to the rest of the country and to international the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is taking to ensure that interest. Given the area’s international links and its veterans can access mental health support. [900979] excellent rail, road and air connections, will my right hon. Friend consider Darlington and Tees Valley as a Johnny Mercer: The Government are providing the location for public bodies? best mental health support for veterans, spending £10.2 million a year on veterans’ mental health services Amanda Milling: I would like to start by paying through the transition intervention and liaison service tribute to Ben Houchen and all his excellent work as the and the complex treatment service. Tees Valley Mayor, and also to my hon. Friend for highlighting the strengths of Darlington. There are James Sunderland: I thank the Minister for his answer. already approximately 800 civil servants in Darlington, May I ask him how the Government are helping veterans and 29,000 across the north-east. Given this strength, to transition back into civilian life? Will he also tell the the north-east region will certainly benefit from the House about any new initiatives in the pipeline? relocation of civil service roles under the Places for Growth programme. Johnny Mercer: I thank my hon. Friend for his question Steve Double: I welcome the Minister to her place. and pay tribute to his service. Veterans’ mental health Cornwall has 650 miles of the most beautiful coastline care in this country is changing fundamentally, and the in the country and a fishing industry desperately keen nation is finally realising its inherent responsibility to to make the most of the opportunities of Brexit. Does those who have served. Weare rolling out a comprehensive my right hon. Friend share my view that Cornwall NHS treatment programme through the complex treatment would be a great location in which to base the Marine service and the transition, intervention and liaison service, Management Organisation? which is the high-intensity service. Beyond that, there will be space for every brilliant third sector organisation Amanda Milling: I congratulate my hon. Friend on to contribute. I am determined that this country will making sure that Cornwall’s voice is well and truly have the world’s best mental health care for veterans, heard. Our focus is on relocating civil service roles in and I look forward to updating my hon. Friend in due public bodies across the UK, and as part of this we are course. ensuring that any functions that are repatriated following EU exit are established in the regions and nations of the Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP): UK. My hon. Friend will be reassured to hear that the I am sure that the Minister will recognise that veterans’ Marine Management Organisation already has several mental health also carries on into retirement. Does he offices in the south-west, including one in Cornwall. agree that it is time to exempt the war disablement pension for veterans who access it in order to improve Office for Veterans’ Affairs: Staff their income, opportunities and mental health in the long term? 6. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): How many staff of the Office for Veterans’ Affairs are (a) veterans Johnny Mercer: Pensions are a complex area that we and (b) non-veterans. [900977] are constantly examining. Several schemes over the The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny years have advantaged certain groups and disadvantaged Mercer): The Office for Veterans’ Affairs is staffed by others. I am having continual conversations to ensure civil servants, two of whom, including the director, are that the armed forces covenant means something in this veterans. I myself am a veteran, and I have seen at first country, that those who have served have a special place hand the need to support our veterans. The OVA is also in this nation’s heart, and that we look after people in setting up a veterans’ advisory board, which includes the way that they deserve. veterans and representatives from academia, business and the charity sector. Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con): Further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Mr Hollobone: My hon. and gallant Friend the Minister Bracknell (James Sunderland), I have an excellent idea will recognise that veterans represent the very best of that should be in the pipeline. The single biggest barrier selfless service to our country, and no one understands to some veterans improving their mental health is getting veterans’ needs better than veterans themselves, so what and keeping a place to live because, disgracefully, we plans does he have to increase the number of veterans, have some veterans who are homeless. Will my hon. including disabled veterans, in his Department? Friend and the Cabinet Office, together with the Ministry of Defence, the Department for Work and Pensions Johnny Mercer: People come and work in the Office and, indeed, the Ministry of Justice, consider supporting for Veterans’ Affairs based purely on what they can add a pilot project to turbocharge the excellent work already to the organisation. A number of veterans are working being done by the Community Self Build Agency in there at the moment. Weare still conducting a recruitment this area? 455 Oral Answers 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 456

Johnny Mercer: It will be of no surprise that I am a further it. However, as far as we are aware, no other EU huge fan of the CSBA, which does incredible work in member state currently allows non-nationals to vote in my Plymouth constituency. We must be careful about national elections—besides Ireland, which has a long- this idea of homeless veterans. In my experience of standing bilateral agreement with the UK—so we think extensive studies, the situation is not quite as it is our approach is reasonable. represented in the media, but one is one too many. Along with the rough sleeping initiative that is being Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab): The announced today, I am determined to zero in on the Minister acknowledges the contribution that EU citizens issue. No veterans should be sleeping rough on this have made here in Britain. Of course, during the transition, country’s streets, and we are determined to get there. EU citizens currently have the right to vote and stand for election at local level. Many EU nationals are currently Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): serving as local councillors up and down the country I am aware that suicide is normally lower among veterans for all political parties. What commitment can she make than among their civilian cohorts. However, I have that EU nationals who currently serve in local government noticed that that has changed in the past six months, as as locally elected councillors will be able to complete the Minister will be aware, with my old platoon commander their term of office? Can she give them any guidance on and several other people I served with having committed whether they will be able to seek re-election and whether suicide. What is the Minister doing to support veterans the communities they serve will be able to re-elect them? in this area? Chloe Smith: I am absolutely confident that the hon. Johnny Mercer: I thank my hon. Friend for his service. Lady is a close reader of all parliamentary questions Suicide is an immensely complex area, and I work on it that are answered in this House, and she will know that every single day. He is right that, traditionally, someone we have already answered that question on the record. is less likely to take their life if they have served in the Those who are elected to office will be able to serve their military, but we are experiencing a cluster of events, and full term, including those elected before 2020. As I say, I we are working every day to understand why they are am repeating my answer to an earlier parliamentary happening. I meet with the families of those who have questions so the House is clear that EU citizens will be been through this journey, and we are determined to able to vote and stand in the May elections. ensure that we have done everything possible in every situation. Each one is a tragedy not only for the family and the individual, but for the military as an institution. Code of Conduct for Special Advisers I assure my hon. Friend that we are spending every waking moment trying to deal with this current series 11. Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP): What recent of events. assessment he has made of compliance by Government special advisers with the code of conduct for special EU Nationals: Voting Rights advisers. [900982]

10. Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/ The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith): Co-op): Whether the Government plan to grant EU The code of conduct for special advisers clearly outlines nationals living in the UK the right to vote in general the standards of behaviour and conduct required of elections. [900981] special advisers throughout their appointment. Where it may be suspected that an individual has failed to meet The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith): those standards, agreed disciplinary processes are carried No, we do not intend to grant that right. The Representation out in line with the terms of the model contract for of the People Act 1918 sets out which non-UK nationals special advisers. resident in the UK can vote in our parliamentary elections. The right is restricted to citizens from Commonwealth Owen Thompson: The code of conduct says that special countries, including Malta and Cyprus, and to those advisers must not involve themselves with controversy. from the Republic of Ireland who meet UK residency After calling for weirdos, misfits and “PJ Masks”, Dominic requirements. Cummings hired someone who has promoted eugenics. How is that acceptable? LloydRussell-Moyle(Brighton,Kemptown)(Lab/Co-op): We currently give Commonwealth citizens, who may have been here only one month, but there are no reciprocal Chloe Smith: There is little to add to what the Prime rights for British citizens to vote in Commonwealth Minister said on this matter yesterday, which is that countries. Why do we not give the right to vote to EU those views of Mr Sabisky have no place in this citizens, who may have lived here for 20 years, paying Government. Mr Sabisky has left the employment of tax throughout that time? Do the Government not the Government, and I do not think there is more to believe in representation and taxation? be said on the matter other than that they are not my views either. Chloe Smith: First, it is right to pay tribute to the contribution to this country that EU citizens make, Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab): Talking of Mr Sabisky, have made and will continue to make in the future. As the Minister no doubt agrees with the Minister for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Business, Energy and Clean Growth, the right hon. Lancaster and other Ministers have set out, we welcome Member for Spelthorne (), that his that contribution to the life of our nation, and we are views are offensive and racist. How come such a man making the settled status scheme available in order to was employed to work in Downing Street? 457 Oral Answers 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 458

Chloe Smith: I do not think there is anything to be The Paymaster General (Penny Mordaunt): The gained by going into individual instances of employment. Government are committed to delivering value for money, I assure the House once again that those views are not including from the additional £100 billion of investment shared by anybody on the Treasury Bench, and I am in infrastructure that we have recently announced. That sure we would all agree on that. means that spending will not just be narrowly focused on where it brings the highest immediate economic Jon Trickett: That is all waffle, isn’t it? The truth is return; it will also be focused on where it may unlock that a right-wing extremist sat in official meetings with productive potential in the future. the Prime Minister and with defence staff—that is a fact. When the political operation in No. 10 is out of Felicity Buchan: In London, under the stewardship of control, it is a problem for politicians and the Government Transport for London and the Mayor of London, Crossrail Front Bench. But when the vetting system breaks down is £2.5 billion over budget and two and a half years or is sidestepped, is it not a problem for national security? behind schedule. Will my right hon. Friend ensure that those mistakes are not made elsewhere in the country? Chloe Smith: Does the Labour party honestly expect me to say from this Dispatch Box that the vetting Penny Mordaunt: I know that this is a frustration for system does not work? That would be a breach of my hon. Friend’s constituents. The Infrastructure and national security, and I am not going to do any such Projects Authority has worked with the Department for thing. The hon. Gentleman ought to ask better questions. Transport and across Government to identify and implement the key lessons to be learned from such Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Is not one major projects, and the IPA provides challenge that is way to solve the problem this question raises to have fair and accurate, through an independent assurance pre-appointment scrutiny of special advisers—or at review of major Government projects. least of senior special advisers, who, in some cases, are more powerful than Cabinet Ministers—by making Chris Loder: Will my right hon. Friend assure me of candidates appear before a Select Committee before the Government’s commitment to vital rail infrastructure their appointment, as we do with other appointments? funding for Dorset and the surrounding counties, given that we have a three-hourly rail frequency in our county Chloe Smith: As I have already said in my opening and it takes us almost three hours to get to London? answer, the code of conduct is very clear about what is required, and the model contract likewise.The appointment Penny Mordaunt: I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for procedure for special advisers is found in those documents, his election and, as the whole House is aware, for going and the fact is that Ministers take decisions. The Prime above and beyond the call of duty in ensuring that his Minister takes decisions about who is to be appointed constituents could use train services during the recent to his team, which is as it should be—Ministers decide strikes. As I say,we are investing an additional £100 billion and advisers advise. Although I welcome my hon. Friend’s in infrastructure, and we are seeking to ensure that we considered point on the processes that could be added, I prioritise the right projects, taking a whole-network and think the current processes are adequate. Again, this whole-life-value approach. His representations have been was answered by the Prime Minister yesterday. well made, and they are being listened to.

Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ : Now that HS2 has been approved, how Co-op): The Minister has just been clear that Ministers will my right hon. Friend ensure, if necessary working and the Prime Minister decide. She will be familiar with with Ministers from other Departments, that costs are the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010, firmly controlled, so that all taxpayers nationwide,including the code for Ministers and the code for special advisers, in my constituency, through which this line unfortunately which states clearly in section 9 that runs, can be confident that they have received value for “all appointments of special advisers require the prior written money? approval of the Prime Minister”. So did the Prime Minister give prior written approval Penny Mordaunt: My hon. Friend makes a very valid for the appointment of Andrew Sabisky—yes or no? point. Obviously, the DFT is leading on the delivery of HS2. The IPA will continue to work with the DFT to Chloe Smith: That is not the right question, because support the delivery of this initiative, through expert Mr Sabisky was a contractor. advice and challenge in independent assurance reviews. The recent review of and recommendations on HS2 are Infrastructure Investment: Value for Money very focused on ensuring that costs are controlled and that there will be no further delays. 12. Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con): What steps his Department is taking to ensure value for money in Import Controls: EU infrastructure investment. [900983] 14. Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP): 16. Chris Loder (West Dorset) (Con): What steps his What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State Department is taking to ensure value for money in for International Trade on the introduction of import infrastructure investment. [900988] controls on goods from the EU from 2021. [900985]

18. Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con): What steps his The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister Department is taking to ensure value for money in for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove): I have regular infrastructure investment. [900991] meetings with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of 459 Oral Answers 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 460

State for International Trade covering a number of Michael Gove: That was a brilliant question in the issues, not the least of which is our border arrangements. style of orator Henry Hunt at Peterloo, but I am afraid Import controls are necessary to keep our borders safe we have to accept that in the United Kingdom the and secure, and to ensure that we treat all partners devolved Administrations quite rightly make decisions equally, especially when it involves collecting the right within their competence but the UK Government have customs, VAT and other excise duties. no intention of altering the franchise in the way that the hon. Gentleman suggests. We are getting on with the Martyn Day: I am grateful to the Minister for answering people’s priorities: investing in our NHS and fighting this question. During the referendum, he said that we crime, improving education and levelling up the economy. would be part of a Those things are more important than constitutional “free trade zone…from Iceland to the Russian border”, changes. with Government Suppliers and Subcontractors: Payment “full access to the European market”. However, this month he has been clear that we will lose 20. Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): What steps he is frictionless trade, and that will introduce red tape and taking to ensure that Government suppliers and vast impacts on our businesses. How can businesses subcontractors are paid on time. [900994] trust his future pronouncements? Will he clarify when he abandoned the idea of frictionless trade? The Paymaster General (Penny Mordaunt): The Government have a commitment to pay 90% of valid Michael Gove: The whole point of our negotiations and undisputed invoices from small and medium-sized with the European Union, now that we have left, is to enterprises within five days. Departments also have a ensure that we do have a comprehensive free trade non-executive director responsible for prompt payment, agreement that will ensure there are no tariffs, quotas or and suppliers now risk being excluded from winning quantitative restrictions. That is entirely consistent with large Government contracts if they cannot demonstrate the broader approach towards free trade, which does prompt payment in their supply chain. indeed exist from Iceland to the Russian border. Rob Roberts: I thank the Paymaster General for that Voting at 16 answer. Following on from her responses to my hon. Friends’questions earlier regarding small and medium-sized businesses, the cash flow of those businesses is the most 15. Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab): If he will bring important factor in their survival, so what assurances forward legislative proposals to lower the voting age can my right hon. Friend give that the timely payment to 16. [900987] commitment will always extend further down the chain so that small and medium-sized businesses in my Delyn 19. Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab): If he will constituency are able to plan ahead with confidence? bring forward legislative proposals to lower the voting age to 16. [900992] Penny Mordaunt: I can give my hon. Friend those assurances: we do take those things into account. As far The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister as the Cabinet Office is concerned—of course, it is for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove): No. similar for many other Departments across Government —we are meeting the five-day payment target, and in Beth Winter: As the Minister will be aware, my country 99% of cases all invoices are paid within 30 days. of Wales has,along with Scotland, already passed legislation to give young people aged 16 the vote. It is a positive Topical Questions move and the right thing to do; it will enable young people to engage in the political process and influence Mr Speaker: I call Rosie Duffield. Not here. decisions that affect their lives. Surely it is time that the Minister followed our excellent lead and listened to T2. [900997] Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP): If he what young people want; it is their future, after all. will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Michael Gove: I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister making that point, but I am afraid it is a no. for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove): Next week, we will start negotiations with the EU on our future Mike Amesbury: If it is good enough for the Welsh relationship, and I will shortly make a statement to the and the Scottish, why on earth are 16 and 17-year-olds House on our approach. Whatever the outcome of the in and, indeed, Northern Ireland not entitled negotiations, the transition period will end at the end of to the vote? It is a question of equality. If someone can this year. We are working closely with businesses and go to war for their country and pay their taxes for the border groups on preparations for the end of the transition country, we should extend the franchise to them. From period, and I will be meeting representatives from our Peterloo to the extension of the franchise to women ports, freight and haulage sectors later today. through the women’s suffrage movement, the north-west I take this opportunity to welcome to the Front has a proud history of extending the franchise. Come Bench my strengthened and hugely talented ministerial on: do the right thing for the English, Minister, and give team. I look forward to working with them to deliver on 16 and 17-year-olds the right to vote and, indeed, those our priorities in the months ahead: overseeing the transition in Northern Ireland as well. period, strengthening the integrity of our precious Union, 461 Oral Answers 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 462 ensuring that our constitution is fit for the 21st century, achieve that by creating a bespoke system for British and reforming our civil service and public sector in line businesses that also complies with our international with the people’s priorities. obligations.

Owen Thompson: The SNP Scottish Government’s Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): groundbreaking legislation ensures that everyone who May I ask the Secretary of State, and explicitly him on chooses to make their home in Scotland, including this question, what role does Dominic Cummings have refugees and EU citizens, can vote. That follows up on in the Cabinet Office, and will he outline his professional the enabling of votes at 16, which the Government here and personal relationship with him? continue to oppose. Will the Minister now look to follow the lead of the Scottish Government and Scottish Michael Gove: The gentleman concerned is a special Parliament towards a more inclusive democracy, or adviser who works for the Prime Minister. All special have this Government given up entirely on democracy? advisers work for the Prime Minister. I have the highest regard for the special advisers who do such a wonderful job, supporting the Government in the delivery of the Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman people’s priorities. for outlining the approach to the franchise that the Scottish Government take, but one of the most important Pete Wishart: Yesterday, the former Chancellor said lessons that democracy teaches us is that we must that he had resigned because of the interference of respect votes. Of course, Scotland voted to remain part Dominic Cummings and the working arrangements of of the United Kingdom in the referendum in 2014, and what is the second office of state. Never before has such I am afraid his party still refuses to acknowledge the a senior member of the Government resigned because legitimacy of that referendum. of the dictates of an unelected official. Is it now Mr Cummings and his weirdos and misfits who are T4. [901000] Angela Richardson (Guildford) (Con): I am running this Government? How many other Sabiskys delighted to hear my right hon. Friend confirm his are lurking around in Departments, and how does the commitment to strengthening our precious Union. Would right hon. Gentleman now fit in to the operation and he be happy to expand on how he would like to do that? mechanics of government?

Michael Gove: I thank my hon. Friend for asking that Michael Gove: Again, I thank the right hon. Gentleman question. The truth is that our United Kingdom is for his question. [Interruption.] Forgive me. It is only a proof positive that a union of nations is stronger together, matter of time, I suspect. The broader point is that the and it is important that we ensure that the benefits of Cabinet Office, the Treasury and No. 10 work seamlessly our Union are spread equally. That means making sure together to ensure that the wishes of the British people, that public sector jobs are deployed effectively in Northern as expressed in the last general election, to strengthen Ireland, Wales and Scotland. It also means that the our United Kingdom, to level up our economy and to strength of our Exchequer is the foundation that our make sure that people have the opportunity to excel in economy provides for human flourishing across these every sphere are carried out with harmony, unity and islands. All these things are reflective of the strength of energy. our Union, the single most successful political union and enterprise that anyone has seen on this earth, and T8. [901004] Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) that is why it is so important that we fight for it from (Con): Given the ridiculous bluster and sabre rattling Fermanagh to Forfar and to every part of England and that we have heard from the European Commission Wales as well. in the past few days, what assessment have the Government made of the damage the European Union Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab): Why is would do to its own economy if it denied itself access the Secretary of State scared of 16 and 17-year-olds? to the United Kingdom market? Michael Gove: My right hon. Friend makes a Michael Gove: As the father of a 16 and a 17-year-old, characteristically acute point. It is the case that the I can assure the hon. Lady that I am not in the least European Union exports more in goods to the UK than scared of them. we export to the EU. Were some voices—I stress that it is a minority of voices in the European Union—to T6. [901002] (East Surrey) (Con): I am prevail and were they not to progress these negotiations very proud to be part of a party that is delivering on in the way that, I am sure, we would all want to see, leaving the EU and that is investing billions in our there would be damage to the EU’s economy, and that is health and education sectors. Will my right hon. Friend the last thing that I want to see. outline the steps that his Department is taking on public procurement to make sure that that money is T3. [900998] Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab): spent wisely? Does the Government intend to legislate for the proposals in the 2018 review of parliamentary constituency The Paymaster General (Penny Mordaunt): I thank boundaries, or will they conduct a new review? my hon. Friend for that excellent question. She will be aware that leaving the EU is a golden opportunity to The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith): reform our procurement rules. We must cut red tape. We We were clear in our manifesto that we are committed must drive innovation and make it easier for small to equal and updated boundaries, and we will bring forward businesses to win those public sector contracts. We will proposals in due course on how to meet that commitment. 463 Oral Answers 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 464

Mr William Wragg (Hazel Grove) (Con): In February Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con): Why 2019, the deputy national statistician said that, for the does my right hon. Friend not prevent enterprises from census to go ahead as planned in March 2021, the bidding for Government contracts unless they can legislation needs to be passed this April. Does my hon. demonstrate a record of having paid their suppliers Friend agree that delays to the laying of the census on time? order now means that it is impossible for that legislation to be passed before April, and what is being done to Penny Mordaunt: Companies do have to demonstrate ensure that the census will take place in March next year? that, and if existing suppliers do not comply with the targets we have set, they will be booted off the Chloe Smith: My hon. Friend has clearly already got supplier list. himself into the detail of the Department in the most admirable way, which is what we would expect from the T9. [901005] Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) new Chair of the Public Administration and Constitutional (Lab): This morning, I did a quick Google search— Affairs Committee. He is right that this legislation is other search engines are available—for “Government pressing and that behind it sits a very large programme jobs”, which came up with dozens of Government being delivered by the UK Statistics Authority, with positions described as being inside IR35. That is the which I work closely. We will bring forward the order worst of both worlds, because an individual would be shortly to Parliament, and I look forward to its scrutiny taxed as an employee but would have no employment in this place so that we can have a successful census in rights. Does the Cabinet Office agree that that is an 2021. untenable state of affairs for people working for the Government? T5. [901001] Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): Was Andrew Sabisky recruited to work on the defence and Chloe Smith: The hon. Gentleman raises a thoughtful security review that the Prime Minister announced point. He will be aware that Her Majesty’s Treasury has yesterday? led a review of those rules. I think that we all agree that we want to see employees treated accurately and fairly, Michael Gove: Mr Sabisky was dismissed before the whichever category they fall into, and of course that the review embarked on its work. public purse is protected by taxes being brought in and made available for public services. I am happy to look at Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con): Does the the matter in slightly more detail if he thinks there is Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster not think it odd something beyond that. that the very people who want votes at the age of 16 changed the law so that 16-year-olds cannot buy cigarettes Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): or go into a tanning salon, and does that not reveal just Can my hon. Friend tell me what he is doing at the how empty their aspirations are? moment about the current Combat Stress situation?

Michael Gove: My hon. Friend, in typically pithy The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny fashion, draws attention to the fact that when we consider Mercer): I pay tribute to Combat Stress for the immense the whole question of when people reach the age of work it has done over many years for those who suffer maturity, the landscape is complicated. The previous with mental health challenges when they return from Labour Government—this was led by Ed Balls—raised operations. The situation is difficult. There is no doubt the participation age in education to ensure that 17 and that the model of healthcare for our veterans is 18-year-olds had to be in employment, education or fundamentally changing, to a realisation of the training. That was a welcome recognition of the need to responsibility that the NHS has towards those who support young people to be everything they can be at serve. Within that model of care, there is a role for the appropriate moment. This Government are committed everybody. As we undergo that transition, services are to ensuring that young people have the right opportunities, available and their uptake is being monitoring every but it is important to acknowledge that, for example, single day. even though young people can apply to join the armed forces at 16, they cannot be deployed in a battlefield T1. [900996] Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab): Apologies, situation until they are at least 18. It is important, when Mr Speaker, for not being in my place earlier. discussing 16, 17 and 18-year-olds, to appreciate the Since 2017, and under successive Tory Governments, complexity of the situation and to show sensitivity. civil service leaks have apparently become commonplace. Have the Government carried out an assessment of why T7. [901003] Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP): I am so many civil servants now seem to believe that it is in sure that the right hon. Gentleman will agree that, when the public interest to go behind the backs of Ministers it comes to Andrew Sabisky, we should call a Spad a and leak information? Spad. Can he confirm whether someone appointed as a Government political adviser, even on a contractor Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for basis, can in any way be exempt from the Spad vetting raising that question. Civil servants must of course process or the requirement for prime ministerial approval? abide by the civil service code, and we deprecate the leaking of any Government information. I will reflect Michael Gove: As my hon. Friend the Minister of hard on the point behind her question. State, Cabinet Office, pointed out earlier, there is a difference between special advisers, who are appointed Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): by and work for the Prime Minister, and contractors, I declare an interest as a vice-president of Combat who exist in all Departments. Stress. May I point out that Combat Stress is facing a 465 Oral Answers 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Oral Answers 466 crisis because the Government are withdrawing funding should be run. I look forward to speaking further with for the 1,200 or so veterans who use its services every the hon. Gentleman. I understand from this morning’s year? There is now an instance of a veteran taking their Order Paper that he has joined the Public Administration own life because they were refused treatment by Combat and Constitutional Affairs Committee, so I look forward Stress and referred back to their GP. This is a very to further such discussions in time. serious situation. Will my hon. Friend please ensure that Combat Stress gets the funding it needs to deliver Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con): Some Welsh the care to the veterans it looks after? companies wishing to bid for public contracts in Wales frequently find themselves unable to do so because of Johnny Mercer: I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and EU procurement requirements. Will my right hon. Friend his work with Combat Stress. The reality is that Combat confirm that procurement regulations will be changed Stress is facing challenges at this time, and not exclusively post the implementation period to enable Welsh companies because of issues with Government contracts. These to bid for contracts in Wales? challenges are reflected across the third sector because Penny Mordaunt: My right hon. Friend is absolutely mental health care is changing. We must always be right. There are some big opportunities for us to change driven by the evidence about what works when it comes those procurement rules. I have already had conversations to accessing and treating more and more people, as the with the devolved nations, and I will visit them shortly awareness of mental health goes up. I have met Combat to take forward and listen to the ideas of businesses so Stress a number of times, and I have met my hon. that we can ensure that the new rules and regimes reflect Friend to discuss this issue. I am happy to continue their needs. meeting to find a solution to this very difficult problem, the answer to which is not always throwing money at it Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ and hoping that it gets better. Co-op): The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster might want to be very careful with the answers he gives LloydRussell-Moyle(Brighton,Kemptown)(Lab/Co-op): to the House about Mr Sabisky in relation to the In response to my earlier question, the Minister of defence and security review—a point raised by my hon. State, Cabinet Office, said that no other European Friend the Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson) a country grants non-citizens voting rights. I think that moment ago—because he well knows that teams of civil might have been slightly erroneous. Portugal grants servants have been working on that review for some Brazilians who meet a certain threshold voting rights at time; it did not just start yesterday, when the Prime the national level, and there is a similar arrangement in Minister announced it. Can he answer this question: did Scandinavian countries through the Nordic Passport Mr Sabisky meet any of the officials working on the Union. Will the Minister think again about our out-of-place defence and security review—yes or no? system, whereby people who may have lived here for 20-odd years, people who pay tax here and even people Michael Gove: I have no idea. who may have been born here, are not able to vote here? At least, let us open the conversation. (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con): I welcome the veterans interview guarantee, but I have spoken to Chloe Smith: To be clear, I said that that was the case veterans in Stoke-on-Trent Central, where we have quite as far as I was aware, so I am grateful to the hon. a number, and sometimes the issue relates to pre- Gentleman for adding two further examples to the employment in that they need help to prepare for being debate. He is right that we should be aware of such ready for an interview. Will the Minister give some idea examples and have that conversation, but the Government’s of whether we can support them on that? stance is as I set out earlier—that it is reasonable and Johnny Mercer: Preparing those who have served for right to focus on the voters who are currently enfranchised civilian life is a huge part of what we do. We put a by the Representation of the People Acts. I think that lot of money into the Career Transition Partnership. citizenship restrictions are commonplace for participation Its statistics out today show that veterans have an in national elections across not only the EU but most 86% employment rate, and that continues to rise year democracies, and the weight of evidence is with the on year. They have a higher employment rate than the Government’s position. civilian cohort. We are not resting on our laurels. We We intend to take forward policy to ensure that will continue to do all we can in the “pre” phase before British citizens around the world—who may have travelled individuals leave service to make sure that they have the far from Britain but are none the less still British best possible opportunity to make the most of their citizens—can vote in elections. That is how our democracy skills when they rejoin civilian life. 467 27 FEBRUARY 2020 European Union: Future Relationship 468

European Union: Future Relationship precedents, we should be able to expedite agreement. We will seek functional arrangements that the EU will recognise from its many other relationships. Our proposal 10.30 am draws on existing EU agreements such as the comprehensive The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister economic and trade agreement with Canada, the EU-Japan for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove): With your economic partnership agreement and the EU-South permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement Korea free trade agreement. That approach should enable on the Government’s approach to our future relationship us to move swiftly towards the goal envisaged in the with the European Union. political declaration agreed last October, in which both sides set the aim of concluding a zero-tariff, zero-quota Now that Britain has left the EU, we are entering a free trade agreement. new chapter in the history of these islands.This Government have honoured the clearly expressed wish of the British As well as concluding a full FTA, we will require a people. Their instruction to us, their servants, to secure wholly separate agreement on fisheries. We will take our departure from the EU has been followed. The back control of our waters as an independent coastal votes of 17.4 million people—more than have ever state, and we will not link access to our waters to access voted for any democratic proposition in our history—were to EU markets. Our fishing waters are our sovereign implemented on 31 January and we are now on a new resource, and we will determine other countries’ access journey. As a sovereign, self-governing, independent to our resources on our terms. We also hope to conclude nation, we will have the freedom to frame our own laws, an agreement on lawenforcement and judicial co-operation control our own borders, lower all our taxes, set our in criminal matters, so that we can work with the EU to own tariffs, determine our own trade relationships, and protect their citizens and ours from shared threats, but ensure that we follow the people’s priorities on security, we will not allow our own legal order to be compromised. the economy, and democratic accountability. Over the By taking back full control of our borders, we can next nine months, we will negotiate a new relationship implement measures to make the British people even with our friends and partners in the EU based on free safer, and we can tackle terrorism and organised crime trade and friendly co-operation. We have today published even more effectively. We also wish to conclude a number the approach for these negotiations, and copies of the of technical agreements covering aviation and civil nuclear document, “The Future Relationship with the EU”, co-operation, which will help to ensure continuity for were made available to Members in the Vote Office the UK on its new footing as an independent sovereign from 9.30 am. nation. Talks with the EU on our future relationship begin Securing agreement on all those questions should next week. It is our aim to secure a comprehensive free not, in principle, be difficult. We are, after all, only trade agreement as well as agreement on questions such seeking relationships with the EU that it has with other as fisheries, internal security and aviation. Weare confident nations—relationships that respect the interests and the that those negotiations will lead to outcomes that work sovereignty of both partners. It is in that light that we for both the UK and the EU, but this House, our should view discussions about what has been termed European partners, and, above all, the British people the “level playing field”. It has been argued that EU should be in no doubt: at the end of the transition demands in this area will make full agreement difficult, period on 31 December, the United Kingdom will fully yet there is no intrinsic reason why requirements that recover its economic and political independence. We both parties uphold desirable standards should prejudice want the best possible trading relationship with the any deal. EU, but in pursuit of a deal, we will not trade away our The United Kingdom has a proud record when it sovereignty. comes to environmental enhancement, workers’ rights The Government’svision for the UK’sfuture relationship and social protection. In a number of key areas, we with the EU was outlined with crystal clarity by the either exceed EU standards or have led the way to Prime Minister during the general election campaign, improve standards. On workers’ rights, for example, the and the election result comprehensively confirmed public UK offers a year of maternity leave, with the option to support for our direction of travel. In his speech in the convert it to parental leave, so that both parents can Painted Hall in Greenwich on 3 February, the Prime share care. The EU minimum is just 14 weeks. On Minister laid out in detail how we will reach our destination. environmental standards, we were the first country in The first principle of our approach is that we wish to the world to introduce legally binding greenhouse gas secure a relationship based on friendly co-operation emission reduction targets through the Climate Change between sovereign equals. Werespect the EU’ssovereignty, Act 2008. We were also the first major global economy autonomy and distinctive legal order, and we expect it to set a legally binding target to achieve net-zero greenhouse to respect ours. We will not accept or agree to any gas emissions across the economy by 2050. obligations where our laws are aligned with the EU or We will not dilute any existing protections. Indeed, as the EU’s institutions, including the Court of Justice. the Environment Bill debated yesterday demonstrates, Instead, each party will respect the other’s independence we wish to go further and faster than the EU in improving and the right to manage its own borders, immigration the natural environment. We do not need the EU’s policy and taxes. permission to be a liberal nation leading the world in The second and allied principle of our approach is the fight against climate change and for social progress. that we will seek to emulate and build on the types of That is why the UK Government seek an FTA with relationship that the EU already has with other independent robust protections for the environment and labour sovereign states. We will use precedents already well standards, but we do not see why the test of suitability established and well understood to ensure that both in those areas should be adherence to EU law and sides’ sovereignty is respected. By using already existing submission to EU models of governance. The EU does 469 European Union: Future Relationship27 FEBRUARY 2020 European Union: Future Relationship 470

[Michael Gove] for which they voted so decisively. That compact with the people is the most important deal of all, and in that not apply those principles to free trade agreements with spirit, I commend this statement to the House. other sovereign nations, and they should not apply to a sovereign United Kingdom. 10.40 am Some argue that we must accept EU procedures as Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): I thank the the benchmark because of the scale of UK trade with Minister for the Cabinet Office for prior sight of his the EU, but the volume of UK trade with the EU is no statement. He talks about having got Brexit done, but greater than the volume of US trade with the EU, and he knows that is not the case. We have taken the first the EU was more than willing to offer zero-tariff access step in leaving the European Union, but Brexit, as he to the US without the application of EU procedures to knows, is far from done. The Government’s ambition US standard setting. The EU has also argued that the for our new relationship with our most important trading UK is a unique case, owing to its geographical location, partner is, frankly, underwhelming. They started with a but proximity is not a determining factor in any other commitment to securing the exact same benefits; then FTA between neighbouring states with large economies. scaled it back to frictionless trade to protect our vital It is not a reason for us to accept EU rules and regulations. supply chains; then it was Canada-plus-plus-plus; and We need only look at the United States-Mexico-Canada now it is Canada so long as that does not get in the way agreement for an example of a trade agreement that of ending our alignment with the standards that we does not require regulatory alignment to one side’s rules have previously enjoyed. or demand a role for one side’s court. Geography is no The Minister talked about the Government’s mandate reason to undermine democracy. in the general election, which was based on a withdrawal To be clear, we will not be seeking to align dynamically agreement and a political declaration that says the free with EU rules on EU terms governed by EU laws and trade agreement will be EU institutions. The British people voted to take back “underpinned by provisions ensuring a level playing field”. control, to bring power home and to have the rules They now apparently reject that. The Minister spoke of governing this country made by those who are directly higher UK standards than are required within the EU, accountable to the people of this country, and that is and he is right—there are some examples; there are also what we are delivering. contrary examples—but EU standards are a floor, not a The negotiations are due to begin next week, led by ceiling. May I ask the Minister: if the Government have the Prime Minister’s sherpa, David Frost, and I would no intention of falling below those standards, why are like to end by looking ahead optimistically to the coming they unwilling to make that commitment? months. There is ample time during the transition period I spent Monday evening with manufacturing companies to strike the right deal for the UK. We hope to reach a from across the north of England, and they are not broad agreement ahead of the EU Council’s high-level worried by alignment; indeed, they want it. They are summit in June, whereupon we will take stock. concerned about the barriers to trade undermining We know that our proposals are measured and our their position in the crucial European market. I know approach is fair. We know what we want to achieve. We that the Prime Minister has made his contempt for the are ready to go, and this Government are committed to views of business well known, but will the Government establishing a future relationship in ways that benefit not think again at this crucial moment, because they are the whole UK and strengthen the Union. Weare committed taking serious risks with our economy, people’s jobs to working with the devolved Administrations to deliver and their livelihoods? a future relationship with the EU that works for the The Treasury analysis from November 2018 predicted whole UK, and I take this opportunity to reassure that a Canada-style FTA would shrink the economy by colleagues that our negotiation that will be undertaken up to 6.4%. I know the Government have rubbished without prejudice and with full respect to the Northern their own analysis already, but what new analysis have Ireland protocol. they done? May I ask the Minister: will the Government This Government will act in these negotiations on publish a full economic impact assessment of the deal behalf of all of the territories for whose international that they are seeking? Will they also publish the assessment relations the UK is responsible. In negotiating the future of the other trade deals that he mentioned? A recent relationship between these territories and the EU, the freedom of information request revealed that the UK Government will seek outcomes that support the Department for International Trade has commissioned territories’ security and economic interests, and reflect and received, but not yet published, assessments of the their unique characteristics. As the Prime Minister impact on the UK economy of the FTA with the US, of committed to do on Second Reading of the European that with Japan and of the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020, we will keep Will he commit to publishing those impact assessments Parliament fully informed about the negotiations, and immediately? colleagues will be able to scrutinise our progress. The Prime Minister has told us time and again that This Government are delivering on our manifesto his Brexit deal commitments with energy and determination. This “represents stability and certainty for business.”—[Official Report, Government got Brexit done, and we will use our recovered 19 October 2019; Vol. 666, c. 594.] sovereignty to be a force for good in the world and a But in ruling out extending the transition period, the fairer nation at home. We want and we will always seek Government are taking business from one set of the best possible relationship with our friends and allies uncertainties to a new set. They are expecting to complete in Europe, but we will always put the welfare of the enormously complex negotiations in just 10 months, British people first. That means ensuring the British with a cavalier disregard for the consequences of failing people exercise the democratic control over our destiny to do so. The Minister’s warning to business that customs 471 European Union: Future Relationship27 FEBRUARY 2020 European Union: Future Relationship 472 checks are “inevitable” and that “almost everybody” I acknowledge the hon. Gentleman’s sincere beliefs will face extra barriers at the border is deeply concerning. and his commitment to appropriate scrutiny, but the Indeed, the one place where the Government claim that problem for the Labour party more broadly is that its there will not be checks—for GB trade with Northern approach to Europe would mean that we would have no Ireland—is the only place where they have actually so control over our fishing borders, no effective control far committed to having them: down the Irish sea. In over our borders, and no way of charting our own light of the conflicting statements from so many of his independent economic destiny.Looking at that proposal, colleagues, will the Minister clarify the extent of checks I am afraid all I can say, as someone once said, is, “No, along the border that the Government have created no, no.” down the Irish sea? Several hon. Members rose— Labour wants the best deal for Britain in trade, security and all the other areas mentioned by the Minister. Mr Speaker: Order. I am expecting to run this statement That means maintaining the closest possible relationship until 11.30 am. with our most important trading partner, and it is on that that we will hold the Government to account. Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con): I congratulate my right hon. Friend on Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman his clear statement, and on his view that since the for his questions and for the constructive way in which standards we set are higher than those in the EU, he will he approaches these matters. This Government are wholly therefore not be demanding that the EU aligns with our committed to implementing the withdrawal agreement, standards as we go forward. That is refreshing. The to respecting and enacting the Northern Ireland protocol, settlement on Northern Ireland in the withdrawal agreement and to giving effect to the political declaration and its included provision on state aid, and since then, the EU aim of securing a comprehensive free trade agreement has interpreted that as bringing the whole UK under without tariffs, quotas or quantitative restrictions. He state aid provisions. Will he confirm that in any future asked specifically about the maintenance of standards, agreement with the EU, we will not accept that the UK and the requirement that we follow EU law and ECJ leaves itself under the jurisdiction of the European judgments in order to secure workers’ rights and Court of Justice when it comes to state aid provision? environmental protections. We do not believe that is necessary, and the EU does not require submission to Michael Gove: My right hon. Friend makes an important its legal order from any other sovereign independent point. Of course we must respect the integrity of that state. Ultimately, the best guarantor of environmental protocol, but it is not the case that the CJEU should be protections and workers’ rights is a sovereign UK governing the application of state aid in the way that Parliament that is determined to lead in the world, just some have envisaged, which would be quite wrong. as this Government are doing in those areas. Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): It is vital to ensure that our manufacturing sector, What a load of bunkum, baloney and codswallop! This like all sectors of our economy, is equipped to take is nothing other than a route map to the cherished no advantage of new economic opportunities. That is what deal, which is the real ambition of the Brexit zealots on the Government are doing, and my right hon. Friend the Conservative Benches. They are, even now, prepared the Chancellor of the Exchequer will say more about to break international law to achieve that outcome. how we can supercharge every part of our economy Let us dispense with the unicornism and see if we can when he delivers the Budget statement on 11 March. start to make sense of the real world and what we are The free trade agreement that we seek should ensure actually dealing with. The EU expects nothing other tariff-free access to markets, and provisions on rules of than the political declaration to be implemented in full. origin that will allow the manufacturing sector to flourish It expects that level playing field to be realised and it in the future. will not accept anything else. How many times do the The hon. Gentleman pointed out that the need to Government need to be told that the UK will not leave ensure that negotiations are concluded by the end of the with a better deal and arrangement than that which is transition period on 31 December necessarily means currently enjoyed? It does not matter if it is Canada-plus. that they will have to proceed at pace. They will, but as I It does not matter if it is Australia. It does not even pointed out, and as he acknowledges, because we are matter if it is outer space-minus-minus-minus. The seeking relationships for which there is already a precedent Government will have an inferior product at the end of between the EU and other countries—precedents such the day when we finally get an agreement with the EU. as those between the EU and Canada, Japan, South Look at who we are up against: it is the clown-shoe UK Korea and others—it should be possible to make rapid up against the efficient, effective EU, with its negotiating progress. I note that my good friend, Dr Martin experience—[Laughter.] Conservative Members are Selmayr—he is now the EU’s permanent representative laughing, sitting there with their proposals which mean to Austria, and he previously worked for the President absolutely nothing. They will be trounced by the EU in of the Commission—has said that it would be entirely the negotiating process. Their hard Brexit will do nothing possible to conclude those negotiations in a timely but hurt my nation. Even with one of these free trade fashion, and not for the last time, Dr Selmayr and I are agreements, our GDP will be hit by 6.1%. If they get in complete agreement on that. their cherished no deal, the consequences will be absolutely The hon. Gentleman made a point about customs catastrophic for my nation of Scotland. checks and a border down the Irish sea. There will be no Scotland wanted nothing whatever to do with this border down the Irish sea, and we will ensure that there ruinous Brexit and we will not accept it. I am sure the is unfettered access for Northern Ireland businesses to hon. Gentlemen who have been laughing and scoffing the rest of the United Kingdom. have seen the opinion polls in Scotland. There is now 473 European Union: Future Relationship27 FEBRUARY 2020 European Union: Future Relationship 474

[Pete Wishart] and Counsel General. I enjoy the conversations I have with Jeremy, and others to ensure we sustained majority support for independence for Scotland. can work together. One of the things driving that is all of them saying no to Scotland and pursuing their hard Brexit. Scotland is John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con): I appreciate that not going to be a part of this, Secretary of State. We will negotiating a comprehensive free trade agreement with not accept it. When will you allow us to have a referendum, the EU is a priority, but will the Minister confirm that so we can get out of this mad Brexit? we will also look to reach free trade agreements with other countries, that such negotiations are either under Michael Gove: I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman way or will be shortly, and that we have the civil service for his remarks. First, may I use this opportunity to capacity to reach them? place on the record my thanks to Mike Russell MSP Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes a very good from the Scottish Government for the work he point. Yes, we do—the Department for International has done, along with leaders from other devolved Trade has a team of trade negotiators, lawyers and Administrations, in helping to shape our approach? other policy experts. There have already been a number Of course, the Scottish Government and the Welsh of informal and formal contacts with the United States, Assembly Government will in some areas take a different Australia, New Zealand and other participants in the view from the UK Government, but it is undoubtedly Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans- the case that our negotiating position is enhanced as a Pacific Partnership, and we will proceed at pace with result of the conversations we have with our colleagues negotiations with partners across the globe to forge free in the Scottish National party and the Scottish Government. trade agreements in the interests of every part of the Indeed, a number of changes have been made to our United Kingdom. approach and to this document, following conversations I have had with the Scottish Government over the Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab): course of the past week. Brexit is clearly far from done. It had cost us £130 billion It is also the case, however, that Scotland, like every by January and the average UK household is £900 worse part of the United Kingdom, will benefit hugely not off. Will the Minister tell us what he estimates the price just from our departure from the European Union but tag will be at the end of this year, and, given the from the new trading relationships we will develop with gendered impact of trade, where is the equality impact other countries. It is the case, for example, that when we assessment that the Government have a statutory duty conclude a new free trade agreement with the United to provide? States, Scotland will be one of the sectors that benefits Michael Gove: Looking at most of the indices of most from the new trading opportunities. It will also be economic performance, such as the measures of increased the case, as the Scottish Government have themselves investment and increased capital expenditure recently, it pointed out, that tens of thousands of new jobs will be is the case that the United Kingdom economy, following created in north-east Scotland in the fishing sector as a the Conservative victory in the general election on direct result of our departure from the European Union— 12 December, is powering ahead—indeed, powering jobs that would not be created if we followed the SNP ahead by comparison with EU nations. I would like to approach of staying in the common fisheries policy. make sure that we get a comprehensive free trade agreement Ultimately, the greatest threat to the prosperity and so that other EU nations can benefit from the dynamism security of the people of Scotland is the reckless approach of the UK economy and that men and women across the Scottish Government take towards the 2014 referendum Europe can benefit from the right economic relationship. and their determination to overturn the settled will of the Scottish people to stay in the United Kingdom. Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con): Financial services Their approach, I am afraid, would mean that we would are critical to this country’s economy, contributing 11% have border posts at Berwick and they would not be of our total tax take. Will my right hon. Friend assure able to use the in Stirling. We must give my constituents who work in financial services that that madness a miss. their interests will be protected during free trade negotiations? Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con): I very much welcome Michael Gove: Absolutely—financial services matter my right hon. Friend’s statement. Does he agree that not just in the City of London, but in Edinburgh, Perth, those who continue to peddle the line that we somehow Leeds and across the United Kingdom. It is a dynamic need to tether ourselves to the EU’s rules and standards and growing sector and it is important that we make are in fact making a case to hold Britain back? sure we have the right arrangements for them. We hope that the EU will report by June on the prospects for Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. equivalency in financial services. That commitment was made in the political declaration. It did not subsequently Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): Is the Secretary of appear in the EU’s negotiating mandate, but I am State aware that 60% of international exports from confident that by June the EU will have completed Wales go to the European Union? The those equivalency assessments. have said that there must be a level playing field and frictionless trade with the EU in the interests of the Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): In our future Welsh economy. Is he aware of that? relationship, it is important that musicians, performers and so on can move freely and continue to go to Michael Gove: I am very well aware of the views of Europe, and that European performers can come here the Welsh Assembly Government, thanks to the excellent on a reciprocal basis. What is the Minister’s understanding work done by Jeremy Miles AM, the Brexit Minister of the Government’s position on that? 475 European Union: Future Relationship27 FEBRUARY 2020 European Union: Future Relationship 476

Michael Gove: The hon. Member makes an important Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) point. He will see that in this document there are details (LD): I have often referred in this place to the concerns on how we can ensure that those who provide professional of the highland tourism industry, in particular hotels, services, including artists and musicians, can continue about the continuing employment of EU nationals, to do so at the end of the transition period. It is many of whom are heading homeward, and the concerns critically important that the cultural excellence that so of fish processors about getting their fresh produce to many UK musicians are responsible for continues to be European markets in good time. Will the Secretary of available to European nations. Whether it is the Bayreuth State, who is a good Scot, consider coming to the festival or pop concerts in Belgium, we need to make highlands to meet representatives of those industries? sure that British talent has a chance to shine. He would be most welcome.

Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con): Does my right hon. Michael Gove: I would be delighted so to do. Any Friend agree that an agreement on a future relationship opportunity to visit the hon. Gentleman’s constituency by the end of the year is perfectly feasible, and that the is a welcome one. He is absolutely right that the hospitality EU and its negotiators need to recognise the reality of a industry is integral to the success of the highlands sovereign, independent United Kingdom with a strong, economy. We want to make sure that in the future those dynamic economy? who provide such a high standard of hospitality have access to the skilled labour they need. Michael Gove: Yes, that is absolutely right. As I mentioned, a number of EU leaders have said that a deal is doable because we are operating on the basis of Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con): I precedent, and it should then be possible to conclude all thank my right hon. Friend for his statement and his the necessary agreements. Having concluded these clear message on fisheries. He will know that memories agreements by the end of this year, we can then move on run deep in our fishing communities, and that great to deepening the many bilateral and multilateral concern continues to be felt because of the way the relationships that we have with our friends and partners fishing industry was treated previously. Will he make it in Europe to the benefit of all. absolutely to clear to fishermen in Cornwall and around the country that access to our fishing waters will not be Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): The right hon. used as a bargaining chip to be traded off against Gentleman referred to other deals that he is hoping to other priorities? emulate. He will be aware that the EU’s deal with South Korea took eight years from the start of negotiations to Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right: implementation and that the Canada deal took seven. memories of what happened in the 1970s certainly do Given that the Government are seeking a much more run deep, and for very good reason. That is why I comprehensive arrangement than either of those, his sought to stress that we, as an independent sovereign optimism that it can be done and ratified in 10 months state, regard control of our own resources as something remains to be proven, but will he confirm that if it is not we cannot barter away. Of course we want to co-operate possible to conclude a deal, we will exit the transition in the management of stocks with our neighbours, but period on 31 December with no agreement whatsoever? the approach we take will be similar to that of other sovereign states or regimes such as Norway, Iceland and Michael Gove: We already have an agreement—a the Faroes. As an independent coastal state, we will withdrawal agreement that safeguards the rights of UK regulate access to our own waters on our terms. and EU citizens, settles our financial obligations and makes provision through the protocol for Northern Sir George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): I welcome the Ireland’s position. As for the free trade agreements to right hon. Gentleman’s commitment to trying to secure which the right hon. Gentleman refers, it is more difficult a comprehensive free trade agreement, but does he to begin when one is designing a prototype; now that accept that many of my constituents who work in the the prototypes exist and have become precedents, it is automotive industry are seriously worried about the much easier to replicate their provisions. impact of a potential 10% tariff on motor vehicles? Will he give a firm commitment to making sure that their Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con): Further to the interests are as protected as possible? previous question, some two years ago I attended a presentation, complete with slides, given by Mr Michel Barnier, at which he indicated that, as things then stood, Michael Gove: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman the only post-Brexit trading arrangements available to for making that point. Throughout his time in the the UK were those enjoyed by South Korea and Canada, House, he has been a strong, consistent and powerful which is precisely the arrangement that the Government voice for the rights of workers. He is absolutely right are seeking. Since then, the EU seems to have resiled that those who work in our automotive sector deserve from that position. Does my right hon. Friend know the best possible future, and it is for that reason that we why the EU is apparently showing such bad faith? will seek to avoid any tariffs on cars or automotive products. Michael Gove: As my right hon. Friend knows, having served with distinction in government, there is a range Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con): British farmers of views across the European Union, but the EU mandate are proud to produce food to the highest standards, and has now been concluded, with unanimity, and we are the British consumer benefits from that. Will my right confident that we can negotiate using our approach and hon. Friend reassure the farmers and consumers of my that mandate to reach an appropriate deal, similar to constituency that those high standards will be maintained the one that he has outlined. in any free trade agreement? 477 European Union: Future Relationship27 FEBRUARY 2020 European Union: Future Relationship 478

Michael Gove: Absolutely. The Agriculture Bill, which are the best equipped to succeed economically and, was introduced by my right hon. Friend the Member for indeed, to secure a greater degree of equity for all their Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers) during her outstanding citizens. tenure as Environment Secretary and which is being carried forward by her successor, will ensure that farmers (Tunbridge Wells) (Con): Does my have a firm foundation on which to plan for the future. right hon. Friend recognise the distinction between EU In all our trading relationships, we will make sure that regulations and European technical standards? The latter there are appropriate protections for the environment are set outside the EU, and without a loss of sovereignty, and for animal welfare, to ensure that the peerless by expert bodies of which the British Standards Institution standards set by our farmers are used as a badge of is one of the most respected and admired in the world. excellence to enable them to do even better in the future. Does my right hon. Friend share my hope that British standards expertise will continue to be able to influence Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Can the Secretary European and international standards? of State confirm that fishing fleets and fish processors in Portavogie in my constituency, Ardglass, Kilkeel and Michael Gove: My right hon. Friend has made an elsewhere will have the same rights as their fellow fleets excellent point, which reflects the brilliant work that he and processors in Scotland, Wales and England, and did as Business Secretary. It is absolutely the case that that Northern Ireland will not be disadvantaged by the there are common technical standards in which British border down the Irish sea? experts play a distinguished part. We will want to ensure—and I know that others will want to ensure—that Michael Gove: There will be no border down the Irish those common standards can help to underpin successful sea, and the fishing fleets of Northern Ireland will enjoy commerce and trade. all the rights that they deserve, similar—indeed, identical—to those of other fishermen, and fishers, Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op): throughout the United Kingdom. The Minister began by saying that the Government were not asking for anything that was not already in an existing agreement between the EU and another country, Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): Striking but then gave an answer on financial services which the a deal is far easier and far more likely from a position of document backs up, saying that the Government were strength. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in seeking an enhanced, comprehensive equivalence regime contrast to what happened in 2017, going into these for our major sector. I must respectfully say to him that negotiations with clarity and unity, backed up by a those statements cannot both be true. There is no single strong electoral mandate, should give us all reasons for equivalence regime—it is a patchwork of regulations—and optimism, not pessimism? there are major bits of legislation that contain no equivalence provisions at all, such as cross-border payments Michael Gove: My right hon. Friend is absolutely regulation, the motor insurance distribution directive right. As I have said before from this Dispatch Box, and the single euro payments area. So, with respect, we given a 52-48 referendum result and 650 different views are asking for something additional, and one of the in the House, not everyone will be satisfied with every answers that the Minister has given is not really correct. aspect of our negotiating approach; but with a united Government, a clear approach and a general election Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman mandate, and given that this document is underpinned for his thoughtful intervention, but all that we are by clear work by lawyers, trade negotiators and others, I seeking is straightforward equivalence in financial services. believe that we can secure a deal, and I am sure Members The European Union has said that it will review that, throughout the House recognise that we should not and we will know the conclusions of its review by June. make our own personal perfect the enemy of the common good. Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): What an excellent statement the Minister made, outlining our Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): principles, but can he assure me that the principles will The Minister’s statement and the document published not change when the EU says no to something? Over today show that the Government have made a fundamental the last few years I have listened to excellent speeches choice, which is to prioritise sovereignty over any economic from that Dispatch Box, only to find that our principles argument or consequence for either goods or services. Is change when the EU says no. there not a danger, however, that having made that choice, the Government will impose long-term economic Michael Gove: I am a restless seeker after consensus consequences on the country in pursuit of the prize of a wherever it can be found, but, more important than sovereignty that they will end up not using very much, that, I am a democrat. The British people made it clear because at the end of the day good standards in the in the referendum and again in the general election that environmental, labour market and consumer sectors they wanted us to leave the European Union, and the actually make sense? Prime Minister made it clear in the general election, as he did during the referendum campaign, that that meant Michael Gove: The right hon. Gentleman always leaving the single market, leaving the customs union makes thoughtful contributions to our debates, and I and leaving the jurisdiction of the European Court of take his point. It will be for this Parliament and future Justice. We will not move from those principles. Parliaments to decide how our sovereignty is exercised in accordance with the wish of the British people, but Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) the experience of history tells us that the countries with (PC): Regrettably, the British Government, through this the maximum amount of control over their own destinies statement, have decided to take a belligerent approach 479 European Union: Future Relationship27 FEBRUARY 2020 European Union: Future Relationship 480 to the second phase of Brexit negotiations. Their opening Buchan, particularly those in the seafood sector—the move is to try to reopen the agreement reached after the catchers and those on the processing side—that we will first phase of Brexit, and to set further arbitrary deadlines retain sovereignty and get the best deal for our fishermen for the infinitely more complicated second phase of across the United Kingdom, despite the assertions from Brexit dealing with trade. Rather than playing Russian the EU and the seemingly wishful thinking of Scottish roulette with people’s jobs and economic wellbeing, National party Members? would it not be better for the Government to take a grown-up approach to these negotiations and remove Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. any arbitrary deadlines for the conclusions of the For folk in Banff and Buchan, Moray and across the negotiations? United Kingdom, a sea of opportunity beckons when we leave the European Union, and it is a great pity that Michael Gove: There are no arbitrary deadlines. The the SNP and the Scottish Government, despite the deadline of 31 December for agreement is in the political many talented Members that they enjoy, still want us to declaration. If we were to take that out, we would be remain in the EU and the common fisheries policy. This altering the political declaration. However,we are honouring is one of a number of ways in which they would sell the political declaration, and far from being belligerent, Scotland short, and it breaks my heart. all we are doing is simply setting a deadline. When I was an editor in the world of newspapers, setting a deadline Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): This for correspondents was not an exercise in belligerence; Government have today ignored the voice of Scotland it was a way of making sure that we could serve the in the referendum and ignored the compromise proposals people. from the Scottish Government. They are showing that they are willing to ride roughshod over a Sewel convention. (Sevenoaks) (Con): Does my right hon. Now the right hon. Gentleman has reneged on his offer Friend agree that we have higher standards than the EU as chair of Vote Leave for Scotland to have its own in a number of areas, particularly in maternity, and that immigration policy. Which one of these aspects will it might be useful for the EU to recognise that in some strengthen his so-called precious Union? of its discourse? Michael Gove: We are respecting the referendum result. Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely bang on. In 2014, the people of Scotland voted to remain in the Across the nations and countries of the continent of United Kingdom. This is a settled decision that, sadly, Europe, there are different approaches to some of these the Scottish Government seek to unpick to the detriment questions. There are also countries outside the European of all. After Scotland voted to be in the United Kingdom, Union, such as Norway, that have exemplary standards the United Kingdom, whole and entire, voted to leave in environmental protection, as well as in maternity and the European Union, and we are working to ensure that social rights. The UK, like Norway, is a progressive, that democratic decision works in the interests of all. liberal, modern country, and that is something that we should celebrate across the House. Outside the European Union, we can aim even higher. Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement. The UK’s economy is primarily service based, and while I hear that taking Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): The back our borders means a separate treaty for fishing, Minister knows that Canada, South Korea and Japan which many people in coastal communities will welcome, are not in the single market or the customs union, so we many of my constituents are in financial services and are starting from a different position. Will he therefore probably represent more people than are employed by accept that if we diverge from EU environmental standards fishing in the entire UK. We have talked about taking and workers’ rights, there will inevitably be restrictions? back control of our money, so why not have a separate Is it not really his plan to lose British jobs and simply treaty for financial services? If not—I have heard his blame the EU? Would it not be better to keep up the comments on equivalence—will he set out the standards and keep up the trade, because people did not Government’s position on equivalence when it comes to vote to lose their jobs when they voted to leave the EU? the derivation period? Michael Gove: I completely understand where the hon. Gentleman is coming from, but we have had a Michael Gove: As my hon. Friend makes clear,financial referendum and a general election, and in both it was services matter not just in Wimbledon, but across the very clear that we were going to leave the single market United Kingdom, which is why, as stated in the document and the customs union and take back control in the published today, we wish to conclude an agreement that interests of the British people. will make provision for financial stability, market integrity and investor and consumer protection for financial services. We also want to secure mutual recognition David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con): I very of professional qualifications to ensure that everyone much welcome the statement, and the document to in our service sector can continue to have access to which my right hon. Friend refers. I particularly welcome opportunities in every market in which they currently the clarification and increased detail on the subject of work. fisheries, and not least the point that, as he said in his statement, “we will require a wholly separate agreement on fisheries. We will take back control of our waters as Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab): May I ask the Minister an independent coastal state, and we will not link access for further information to the chapter on digital in the to our waters to access to EU markets.” Will he confirm report, which refers to an to the House and to the constituents of Banff and “open, secure and trustworthy online environment” 481 European Union: Future Relationship27 FEBRUARY 2020 European Union: Future Relationship 482

[Chris Elmore] the fisheries in my beautiful constituency. Does he agree that the point of leaving the EU is to enable us to make and encouraging regulatory co-operation? With the our own laws in our own way through politicians whom Government moving to tackle online harms on various we elect, and who are accountable to the British people? platforms, will he set out in more detail what he means by ensuring that there is co-operation on regulation in Michael Gove: My hon. Friend gets to the heart of any future trading agreement? the matter.Democratic accountability,as outlined brilliantly and eloquently by the father of the right hon. Member Michael Gove: Yes. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) in this House and are compliant with the general data protection regulation elsewhere, is something that all of us should celebrate, that the EU introduced, and we want to ensure that we and that leaving the European Union allows us to get an equivalency judgment from the EU on data enhance. adequacy, so that we can continue to ensure that data flows, which are so integral to business and others, can Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): The continue in an appropriate way. document rightly acknowledges the importance of the Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con): I welcome second-generation Schengen information system—SIS II my right hon. Friend’s statement for its clarity and —database, which holds millions of pieces of data on optimism, which people of Montgomeryshire and, indeed, wanted or missing persons, including vulnerable children. the majority of people in Wales will welcome. To tackle The document also says that if by June insufficient some of the scaremongering, will he meet with the progress has been made on ensuring the basis of an Welsh farming unions to outline again that we will not agreement by September, the Government will begin to seek to lower food standards? Indeed, if my hon. Friend make their own preparations for domestic priorities. wants a Welsh farmhouse breakfast, we can certainly do Will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster explain that in Montgomeryshire. how he will protect this country properly if we have to sacrifice our access to millions of pieces of vital data Michael Gove: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for and rely on an Interpol database that contains only a making that point. Whether it is from the Farmers’ few hundred thousand records? Union of Wales, NFU Cymru or my hon. Friend, farmers in Wales have brilliant representation. There is Michael Gove: The hon. Lady makes an important nothing nicer than a Welsh farmhouse breakfast, apart point. We would like to continue having access not just from possibly an Ulster fry, or a bacon sandwich in to the Schengen information system II database, but to Peterhead harbour. Prüm, ECRIS and a number of other law enforcement and criminal justice tools. Of course, we will have to see Claire Hanna (Belfast South) (SDLP): The Minister what approach the European Union takes. I am hopeful states that the negotiation will take place without prejudice it will take a pragmatic approach, because it benefits to the Northern Irish protocol. However,there is confusion just as much as we do, if not more, from our participation in Northern Ireland. We hear from the EU that there in these databases. Leaving the European Union allows will be no derogation from the rules, but reports over us, through our controlling our own borders and laws, the weekend suggested that the Government seek to to improve homeland security in a number of ways, and find ways around the protocol, yet the Minister and his we will always act in the interests of the British people. colleagues say that there will still be unfettered access and no border in the Irish sea. Will the Minister please Brendan Clarke-Smith (Bassetlaw) (Con): Can my describe in detail, with the crystal clarity he referred to, right hon. Friend confirm that the UK and the EU will how those irreconcilable aims will be married up, and trade together under an Australian-style agreement if how people in Northern Ireland will finally get certainty an agreement cannot be reached by the end of the year? after three and a half years of bluster and stalled investment? Will he also clarify what form the negotiation Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We with the devolved Administration will take? want to have a comprehensive free trade agreement on the model I outlined in my statement, but if we do not, Michael Gove: Far from there being confusion, I there are other great countries, including Australia, hope that there is clarity that we will implement the New Zealand and, of course, the United States, that withdrawal agreement, respect the Northern Ireland have a huge volume of trade with the EU without protocol, and then conclude a comprehensive free trade having an agreement of that kind. agreement with the European Union that will work in the interests of the people of Northern Ireland and Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ people across the United Kingdom. I have had profitable Co-op): We cannot level up by damaging the foundations, conversations with both the First Minister and the but that is exactly what would happen to the economy if Deputy First Minister in the preparation of our approach we walked away in June, as the Government have this today. We will not always agree with every party in morning been briefing that we will. As my hon. Friend Northern Ireland, but all parties in Northern Ireland, the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) including the hon. Lady’s, have an important role to said, it would also do damage to our security. The play in ensuring that we deliver for all the people of the document clearly says there should be no United Kingdom. “role for the CJEU in resolving UK-EU disputes”. Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) (Con): I am grateful Does that mean that the Government are happy potentially to my right hon. Friend for his reassurances to our to lose access to not only databases that are crucial to fisheries. Those reassurances are particularly relevant to our security, but the European arrest warrant? 483 European Union: Future Relationship27 FEBRUARY 2020 European Union: Future Relationship 484

Michael Gove: That is ultimately a question for the in Scotland voted to remain in the EU than voted to EU. We are clear that we want a relationship of sovereign remain in the United Kingdom—and that was using the equals.If the EU attaches to that relationship a requirement UK Government’s franchise; had the Government trusted that we follow the jurisdiction of its courts, it is not a 16 and 17-year-olds in the way we trust them in Scotland, relationship of sovereign equals. The security of the EU a bigger proportion of voters would have voted to would be impinged as well, and I am sure that no remain in the EU. Does the right hon. Gentleman truly European politician would want to sacrifice the security believe that withholding the sovereign right of the Scottish of their people by taking anything other than a constructive people is a sustainable position? While protecting the approach. sovereignty of the UK, is he prepared to deny the sovereignty of Scotland? Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): Before I came to this place I had a job, in the wake of the Brexit Michael Gove: It is the case that the Scottish nationalist referendum, representing the banking industry in party—[HON.MEMBERS: “National!”] I am sorry, but as negotiations with the EU, the European Parliament, the Robert Burns said, Commission and the European Council, and in discussions with the Bank of England and the Treasury on what “facts are chiels that winna ding”. sort of relationship we want with the EU after Brexit. I am afraid that the representatives on that Bench are We came to realise quite quickly, as did the Bank of nationalists. They put separation—the smashing up of England—Mark Carney has spoken on this point—that, the United Kingdom—ahead of anything else. Some of as a global financial centre, being a rule taker and them are decent and kind people, but they are nationalists. having no say on our financial regulation would be a The reason they object so much is that when the mask threat to the UK’s financial stability. Does my right comes off and we recognise the ideological heart of the hon. Friend agree that we have to be very careful, as SNP, they dinnae like it up ’em. becoming a rule taker would be a real threat to our financial services? Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): It is estimated that if agreement is reached, there will be a Michael Gove: I agree 100%. Spot on. Totally correct. need for about 50,000 new customs officers. Is it feasible to recruit and train that many people in less than Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP): six months, and who is going to foot the bill for it? Yesterday, as a member of the Select Committee on Defence, I heard from Professor Malcolm Chalmers of Michael Gove: Yes, it is, and the Government stand the Royal United Services Institute that behind that. “the risks to the UK’s essential alliance relationships are greater now than they have been for many decades.” Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance): Does the Can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster advise Minister recognise that even the most far-reaching and the House on why the statement on our future relationship comprehensive free trade agreement will sadly still mean with the European Union says absolutely nothing about regulatory and rules of origin checks down the Irish maintaining and improving defence? sea. As such, beyond simply giving a rhetorical commitment Michael Gove: When it comes to maintaining and on the implementation of the protocol, will he assure improving defence, we have a network of relationships, not just the House, but his negotiating partners in the including, of course, our membership of NATO—the EU, that the Government are preparing to implement strongest and most durable alliance for freedom the that protocol? world has ever known. When it comes to defending this country, one of most perilous things we could do would Michael Gove: We will ensure that the protocol is be to follow the Scottish Government’s approach of appropriately implemented, and we will also ensure breaking up the United Kingdom and of unilateral unfettered access for businesses in Northern Ireland to nuclear disarmament. I am afraid that the SNP’s position the rest of the UK market. on defence, like its position on so many other issues, would mean the Scottish people were less safe. That is Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): the direct result of its ideological attachment to separation. Brexit will be extremely damaging for Scotland in a range of ways. The difference between me and the Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): Minister is that he is a British nationalist, whereas I am In the light of the Minister’s remarks on a level playing a Scottish nationalist. Does he think that Brexit imposed field, can I ask him about competition policy and on Scotland will increase or decrease constitutional governance arrangements? Would the Government accept tensions across the UK? commitments on workers’rights,environmental protections and consumer and social standards being subject to any Michael Gove: Britain leaving the EU will mean that dispute resolution mechanism agreed to as part of the there is a greater degree of harmony between every part wider agreement? of the United Kingdom. I recognise that that will be a Michael Gove: The hon. Gentleman has given a list, disappointment to the SNP in its restless search for and I will come back to each of them in correspondence. grievance, dissension and division, but one thing I cannot Some will be covered by dispute resolution mechanisms, help saying is that even though I profoundly disagree and others may not. with the SNP, it is so lovely to have so many SNP Members here in the Westminster Parliament. I know Steven Bonnar (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) that for many, many years to come, there will be (SNP): Scotland cast its biggest ever vote on a proposition representation for Scotland here in Westminster, and when it voted by 62% to remain in the EU. More people that is a lovely thing. 485 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Business of the House 486

Business of the House House find time for a statement on Heathrow expansion? If he does not, there will probably be an urgent question, so he might as well arrange for a statement to be made. 11.27 am As Cabinet Office briefing room A, Cabinet Office The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Jacob briefing room B and the Prime Minister’s wellingtons Rees-Mogg): The business for the week commencing lie unused, the climate emergency is taking its toll on 2 March will include: our citizens. They are watching their furniture go down the river. We had a record 632 flood alerts on one day MONDAY 2 MARCH—Second Reading of the Medicines alone. The statement on Monday by the Secretary of and Medical Devices Bill, followed by a procedural State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said motion relating to the High Speed Rail (- nothing about repairing flood defences. The Labour Crewe) Bill, after which the House will be asked to Government increased funding by 10% a year, but agree all outstanding estimates. under the Tories that was cut to 1.2%. The Labour TUESDAY 3 MARCH—Proceedings on the Supply and Government in Wales are looking after the distressed Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) Bill, folk by giving the affected households £500, and up to followed by the Committee and remaining stages of the £1,000 if they do not have insurance. That is practical Prisoners (Disclosure of Information about Victims) help. Will the Leader of the House perhaps ask the Bill, followed by a motion to approve a statutory instrument Secretary of State for Wales, who is coming to the relating to the draft Statutory Parental Bereavement Chamber later,about the one-off £10 million infrastructure Pay (General) Regulations 2020 and the draft Parental payment that the Government of Wales require? I am Bereavement Leave Regulations 2020. sure the Leader of the House will want to provide time WEDNESDAY 4 MARCH—Opposition day (5th allotted for an updated statement after the Prime Minister visits day). There will be a debate on flooding, followed by a Shrewsbury this weekend. debate on health inequalities. Both debates will arise on No debate on the Marmot report is scheduled in a motion in the name of the official Opposition. Government time. Professor Marmot said that the past THURSDAY 5 MARCH—General debate on International decade has seen those in disadvantaged areas face declining Women’s Day. health, with life expectancy falling, especially for women. FRIDAY 6 MARCH—The House will not be sitting. He called the damage to the nation’s health “shocking” The provisional business for the week commencing and said: 9 March will include: “If health has stopped improving, that means society has MONDAY 9 MARCH—Second Reading of the stopped improving.” Commonwealth Games Bill [Lords]. The Leader of House cannot dismiss Professor Marmot TUESDAY 10 MARCH—Remaining stages of the because the Prime Minister himself said yesterday that Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) he worked with him. Bill. Professor Marmot also said that good employment is WEDNESDAY 11 MARCH—My right hon. Friend the important. While the Government boast about more Chancellor of the Exchequer will deliver his Budget employment, there has been a massive increase in people statement. on zero-hours contracts, with 1 million people—and THURSDAY 12 MARCH—Continuation of the Budget 9% of those under 25—now on these contracts. Other debate. countries have banned zero-hours contracts; when will FRIDAY 13 MARCH—Private Members’ Bills. the Government have a debate on the perniciousness of zero-hours contracts? For people on these contracts, it Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): I thank the Leader is like walking a tightrope without a safety net. That of the House for the forthcoming business. I am pleased that is not fair or right. People having to resort to to see that the Committee of Selection has now met and volunteer food banks is not a safety net. that the Select Committees are on the Order Paper. Just Why have we not had a debate on the £7 million to clarify, the situation had nothing to do with the contract for private US firms so that they can screen Labour party; it was in fact the Government who were what they are calling our most expensive patients? Will delaying it. I hope that there will be motions on the the Leader of the House rule out people being denied Order Paper on Monday for the House to approve. treatment—or are we getting into questions of the Will the Leader of the House provide the list of deserving and undeserving? The next step is going to be ministerial responsibilities? There have been a lot of screening people out; what is the Government’s obsession new appointments. with screening people out? May we have a debate on Will the Leader of the House confirm that any of the that? I hope the Select Committees will be up and new recruits who come into No. 10—particularly in the running; perhaps they will be able to report to the light of the statement by the right hon. Member for House. Bromsgrove () and the replacement of his We have the absurd situation in which the Deputy staff—who have not been security vetted will not be Health Minister in Iran has covid-19 and British citizens given security briefings? I understand that someone are lying in jail having done nothing. Nazanin, Anousheh who was recently removed from No. 10 had not been and Kylie need to come home. They need proper treatment. security vetted. These staff need to go through the An Iranian MP has said that they should be released on proper Cabinet Office procedures. compassionate and humanitarian grounds. Perhaps this I do not know whether the Leader of the House is is a job for the United Nations or the World Health aware, but this morning the Court of Appeal gave its Organisation, or perhaps even for the right hon. Member judgment on Heathrow airport. Will the Leader of the for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith), who did a fantastic 487 Business of the House27 FEBRUARY 2020 Business of the House 488 job on Northern Ireland. Perhaps he can do some person; they are a whole team of people. We are governed negotiating as the Government do not want to do that by Cabinet government in this country, and the work is on behalf of their British citizens. being done by the people whose responsibility it is. The Will the Leader of the House please clarify a point made Government have done a great deal to protect more by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford)? than 200,000 properties from flooding. That is a very She asked the Secretary of State for Health and Social important safeguard, because, for the people affected Care about those who self-isolate, and urged the by floods, it is a terrible experience. Therefore, to have Government to make clear that those who do so should protected 200,000 homes is an achievement. Some £4 billion not be penalised in terms of their employment rights. will be spent in this area. The Environment Agency has The Secretary of State said that only those who self-isolate in its bank account, I believe, £2.7 billion of taxpayers’ on medical advice will be protected. We have many funds to disburse, so work is going on and things are people on zero-hours contracts, and they will not be being done to help those affected. That includes £5,000 protected. They are self-isolating to protect our citizens. per household to put in flood defences, and £500 to help May we have clarification that everyone, whether they people immediately. get medical advice or not, will be protected and have With regard to the Marmot report, the Prime Minister, their employment rights protected? There was a helpful who spoke about this yesterday at Prime Minister’s email from the House authorities on covid-19 and on questions, said that the discrepancy in life expectancy in what Members can do. Will the Leader of House please this country is a disgrace. It is an effort of this Government ensure that up-to-date hand gel is available for public to level up, and that includes levelling up life expectancy. areas, such as the Public Gallery, and for those staff It is worth noting that the Marmot report also welcomes who are interfacing with the public, so that they are the record level of employment that we have achieved, also safe? because the best way out of poverty is always through The Speaker’sChaplain held a service for Ash Wednesday employment, and that is something to which the in the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft with Canon Pat Government are committed and on which they have an Browne. We are pleased to welcome Canon Patricia incredibly good track record. Hillas, who will be inaugurated next week. Finally, I As for zero-hours contracts, they are a small portion wish everybody—Welsh or not—a happy St David’s of the total employment in this country. They provide a Day on Sunday. flexibility that is welcome to manyemployees and employers. None the less, it is important to bear in mind that most Mr Rees-Mogg: I notice that when the shadow Leader of the new jobs created since 2010 have been full-time of the House gets up to stand, my hon. Friend the jobs. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) whoops in delight, which he does not do when I get up to stand, so The right hon. Lady knows that I share her concern clearly the right hon. Lady is doing something right. about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. It is a particular concern that the coronavirus has been rumoured—I emphasise I am glad to report that the Select Committees will be rumoured and not confirmed—to be in the prison in set up. It has taken longer than anticipated. Inevitably, a Evin where Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe is being held. The reshuffle in the midst of it meant that there were some UK ambassador to Iran has raised the matter with the changes as to who would be on the Committees, but Iranian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and we are in that is now going ahead and the Government are very contact with our international partners on this issue. keen to get that scrutiny up and running. The Iranian authorities have denied this at the moment, I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for asking for the but I must confess that I, for one, would not always take list of ministerial responsibilities, because it helps me to as authoritative denials issued by the Iranian Government. extract it from the place where it is kept, and that is a I thank the right hon. Lady for raising this matter useful service to the House, so I appreciate that. again. The Government are trying to do what they can As regards the vetting of new recruits, I am glad to in this very serious situation. saythat those are security matters on which the Government With regard to the preparedness of the House of do not go into detail. They never have done whatever Commons and the provision of sanitising hand gel for their colour—whether they have been red or blue, or, in people meeting the public, that is a matter for the the dim and distant past, even yellow. Therefore, we House of Commons Commission, on which both the would not break from that precedent and tradition. right hon. Lady and I serve, so at our next meeting, As for Heathrow Airport, the right hon. Lady is right which I think is Monday week, we will no doubt have a to ask for the Government position to be made clear on report on quite what the state of affairs is. this, and there will be a written ministerial statement imminently. It may even come out while I am still speaking. I cannot promise that, but it will certainly Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) come out today. (Con): Given my right hon. Friend’s encyclopaedic and diligent understanding of the particular concerns of Then there is this fascination—a sort of obsession—with Members, he will know that I am patron of the British committee rooms in the Cabinet Office and which ones Nuclear Test Veterans Association. Those veterans are are being used for which particular purpose. There are the young men and women who were sent to the south many rooms—it reminds me of the line in the Gospel Pacific in the 1950s to witness the first nuclear tests, at about there being many houses. Leaving that to one great risk to them and with severe consequences side, there are many rooms that are used. subsequently. When my right hon. Friend the Member My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for for South Staffordshire () was Secretary Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will be visiting of State for Defence, I took a delegation to see him and Shrewsbury today. The Government are not just one he agreed to look into having a medal for those veterans. 489 Business of the House27 FEBRUARY 2020 Business of the House 490

[Sir John Hayes] answered; those are two separate concepts. I refer him to the answer I have given previously from the May we therefore have a statement on whether such a Dispatch Box. medal will be issued? Surely it is time to be generous to With regard to the speed with which the Government those who gave so much. have got off the starting blocks, we are the Lamborghini of Governments, or the Ferrari of Governments—I Mr Rees-Mogg: Of course we should be generous to have never known nought to 60 to be achieved faster. If those who have served the country. Medals do not fall Members prefer,we are the Aston Martin of Governments. within my immediate area of responsibility, but I will I was quite tempted to say that we are the Bentley of raise the matter directly with the Secretary of State for Governments, but my 1936 Bentley takes so long to get Defence on behalf of my right hon. Friend. to 60 mph that that would not necessarily be the right comparison. Bear in mind that within a few weeks of Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP): The schedule the general election we had legislated to leave the European that the Leader of the House has presented today takes Union, and that was perhaps the most fundamental us to a date that is precisely three months since the piece of legislation we could have passed. general election, but I have to say that I am still finding I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising the the pace of the agenda he puts before us rather sedate. I important issue of the drugs conference that is happening am left wondering when this Government will get into in Scotland today. We are concerned about the rate of gear, and whether their proposals for radical reform are drug deaths in Scotland, which is three times higher not nearly as expansive as their public relations department than the UK average, so it is quite right the conference would have us believe. is taking place in Scotland. There needs to be a balanced policy, involving a mix of enforcement—some dozens This week both the Scottish Government and the UK of people were arrested yesterday alone in a number of Government are hosting major events on the drugs raids over the county lines problem—and treatment. crisis afflicting every part of this Union. There is a Working out precisely where policy should go is the growing awareness in this Chamber that the law needs right thing to do, and I am sure that there will be to change in order to allow more effective interventions statements and debates in this place once that is done. that can save lives. Will the Government therefore bring forward a debate on the drugs crisis in the United As regards estimates and EVEL, I have sympathy for Kingdom so that we can look at changes to both what the hon. Gentleman is saying. There are deadlines secondary and primary legislation? by which the estimates have to be approved, but the Government are conscious that they owe the Liaison I also want to talk about the procedures for English Committee and the Backbench Business Committee votes for English laws and for the estimates. The Leader time to consider these issues. That will be an opportunity of the House may remember that when EVEL was for the hon. Gentleman and his party to debate the introduced my party made the argument that many of matters that they wish to bring forward. the matters that are reserved to England and Wales have consequences through the Barnett formula for the funding Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): of services in Scotland. We were told at the time that Order. I intend these proceedings to run until about because Barnett was essentially about money rather 12.15 pm. I will try to get everybody in, but that depends than policy, the proper time to debate it would be when on questions and answers being very short. the House considers the estimates. We have a bizarre situation coming up next week, Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con): The when the House will be asked to approve hundreds of Government have rightly committed to net zero carbon billions of pounds for public expenditure without any emissions by 2050. The plan includes phasing out petrol debate at all. I know that is because the Liaison Committee and diesel cars by 2035, which is going to mean a huge has not yet met, but that is hardly our responsibility. increase in demand for critical minerals such as lithium. Will the Government therefore make arrangements to The Leader of the House may be aware that Cornwall is allow the House to debate the estimates, and to enable rich in lithium and many other minerals used for the us to move amendments about the consequences they motor industry, so can we have a statement from the will have for public services in Scotland? Government about their strategy on securing a supply of these critical minerals—and, where possible, a domestic Finally, I gently say to the Leader of the House that supply—for the industry? the fact that he will not answer my question does not make it go away, so I will ask him again. When will the Mr Rees-Mogg: Cornwall is rich in many things, not Government bring forward proposals to deal with the fact least in its brilliant Members of Parliament. Our approach that they do not have a mandate north of the Scottish to ensuring that UK industrial consumers have continued border? I say that in a week when another opinion poll access to the critical technology metals that they need is has been published, this time asking people whether firmly based on free, fair and open international trade they wish to have a referendum on the question, and on a global level. This has served the UK well, and we 55% of the Scottish public now want a referendum have not received any signals from companies or the within the lifetime of this Parliament. When will the markets that our policy should change. We will monitor Government stop ignoring that and deal with it? the situation closely and continue to engage with UK industry on this genuinely important matter. Mr Rees-Mogg: I will deal with the hon. Gentleman’s last point first. He makes a typical confusion. When an Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): I am grateful to the answer is given that is not the answer that is wanted, shadow Leader of the House, my right hon. Friend the that does not mean that the question has not been Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), for mentioning 491 Business of the House27 FEBRUARY 2020 Business of the House 492 the Marmot report, because Labour Members have all and deaths are taking place on the streets, as well as the been concerned about the disparity in public health oppression of the Kashmiri people. Will the Leader of since the Black report and the Townsend report, and the House please find time to get the Government to the Marmot report follows up on the issue. It now make a statement or have a debate in Government time seems that health inequalities are getting worse in this so as to have a serious discussion about human rights country for the first time in decades, so can we have a and civil liberties under the Indian Government? full debate in Government time about what we can do to tackle those real and worsening health inequalities? Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely I also support my right hon. Friend’s point about right to raise this pressing matter. Weare deeply concerned sanitising hand gel. This House welcomes thousands of at the severity and scale of violations of freedom of people every day from all over the country and beyond. religious belief in many parts of the world. In December, I would hate to see it become a method for spreading a the Foreign Secretary announced an independent review serious virus around the country.The House of Commons of Foreign and Commonwealth Office support for Commission might be meeting in 10 days’ time, but to persecuted Christians overseas, and there was debate on me that lacks urgency. Sanitising hand gel should be the persecution of Christians on 6 February. However, available because people touch doors and door handles, this does not mean that we are not concerned about the and that is how the virus is being transmitted. That will persecution of other religions across the world. I urge happen much in this House if we do not provide hand the hon. Gentleman to raise this matter at next month’s gel very quickly. Foreign Office questions, but the seriousness of what he has mentioned in the House today has not passed the Mr Rees-Mogg: There is a debate next week on health Government by. inequalities, brought forward in the name of the Leader Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con): May I congratulate of the Opposition. the Government on the statement that has been made with regard to the future relationship with the EU? Valerie Vaz: By us—you should be doing it. Would the Leader of the House note that the European Scrutiny Committee will be fully engaged in this? It is Mr Rees-Mogg: But that is the point of Opposition being set up now. The questions of sovereignty and of days—so that the Opposition can debate the issues that the vital national interests of the United Kingdom are members of the Opposition wish to debate. That is matters within our remit, and we will be giving them why they exist. I therefore believe that that request is our absolute and total attention in future. being met. May I ask a question about the procedural motion on As regards responsibilities of the House authorities, high-speed rail? What is this for? Is it not simply to they are thoroughly being met and hand gel is available, provide for a carry-over motion? Should not phase 2a particularly for the security staff. It is worth reiterating be rolled into phase 2b? the Government’s advice, which is that people should wash their hands regularly and use a Kleenex when they Mr Rees-Mogg: We are back to 2b or not 2b, which cough or blow their nose. seems to be my hon. Friend’s question. It is a procedural motion of a standard and routine kind that we need for Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con): As my the progression of business. right hon. Friend knows, for those furthest from the job I am delighted that the European Scrutiny Committee market, good employment means good training and will be bringing its eagle eye to look at the questions of upskilling. Will he join me in congratulating North sovereignty. My hon. Friend chairs that Committee Staffordshire Engineering Group Training Association— with such brilliance. When I served on it for some years, which I visited recently—on its excellent academy, which it was one of the best Committees possible to be on. places 98% of the people it trains from the most The diligence he applies to this is a model for us all. disadvantaged backgrounds into local engineering companies? Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP): According to estimates by the National Society for the Prevention Mr Rees-Mogg: May I congratulate my hon. Friend of Cruelty to Children, there are up to 90 reports a day on the work she has been doing on this and absolutely of online harms—that is one every 16 minutes. Given congratulate North Staffordshire Engineering Group that the 13 voluntary codes of social media regulation Training Association? It is so important to help people appear to have failed, may we have a statement or to get the skills they need. That is a main focus of debate on online harms regulations, so that we can get Government policy, and it has long been championed commitments from Ministers about Ofcom’s proposed by my right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert enforcement powers? Halfon). Mr Rees-Mogg: The online harms White Paper sets Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab): out our plans for world-leading legislation to make the Over the past few days, Delhi has been burning at the UK the safest place in the world to be online. Ahead of hands of Hindu extremism. Twenty-four people have that legislation, the Government will publish interim been deemed dead so far and hundreds have been codes of practice on tackling the use of the internet by injured in this extreme violence. The Indian Government terrorists and those engaged in child sexual abuse and have enacted the citizenship law, which has also produced exploitation. This will ensure that companies take action concentration camps to house people who have lived in now to tackle content that threatens our national security India for years. There is communal violence against and the physical safety of children. These matters will Muslims day in, day out. Summary beatings, torture obviously be discussed in this House. 493 Business of the House27 FEBRUARY 2020 Business of the House 494

Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con): Will the Leader of the Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): The port of House set aside time for this House to debate the Grimsby, part of which falls in my constituency, is the College of Policing’s hate crime operational guidance to country’s major centre for service and maintenance in remove the requirement that police forces have to record the offshore energy industry.In view of the Government’s non-crime hate incidents? I believe that the current desire to move civil servants out of London, will my system is open to abuse by politically motivated individuals right hon. Friend ask the Department for Business, who seek to smear people they disagree with. Earlier Energy and Industrial Strategy to look at relocating the this morning, I was with Harry Miller discussing this policy team and some of the officials who deal with very case. regulation of the offshore sector to the Grimsby-Cleethorpes area? Could he arrange for a statement on that? Mr Rees-Mogg: I had the pleasure of meeting Mr Harry Miller last night at an event in support of free speech. Mr Rees-Mogg: By the time my hon. Friend has Free speech is fundamental to this nation. Of course the finished with his demands for rail, road and ports, Government have heard the very powerful judgment of Cleethorpes will be the new metropolis of the world, the High Court in his case. The Home Secretary made it and everybody will be moving there. How fortunate the extremely clear yesterday that she will hold the police in good people of Cleethorpes are to have my hon. Friend this country to account for reducing crime, because that as their representative! is the job of our wonderful police. Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): My Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab): During Scottish constituent is approaching her 16th birthday, National Apprenticeship Week, I visited a number of but as her parents had French nationality when she excellent local businesses in my constituency and met was born—despite the fact that her mum now has UK apprentices, who told me about the opportunities that citizenship—she will have to pay £1,000 to get UK their apprenticeship provides, but there are concerns citizenship, which is unaffordable at her age. The fees from many, including the Education Secretary, that the are a rip-off, given that the Home Office uses the apprenticeship levy is not working as it should, with too income to pay for other funds. May we have a debate in much focus on already highly skilled workers, not on Government time on fair fees and what can be done to those with no or low skills. May we have a debate in help my constituent get UK citizenship, so that she can Government time on much-needed reforms to the go to college? apprenticeship levy? Mr Rees-Mogg: I once again congratulate the hon. Mr Rees-Mogg: I seem to remember that the Gentleman on the way he brings forward his constituents’ apprenticeship levy came out of a Budget. We will have cases in the Chamber. I think everyone will have sympathy the Budget debate fairly shortly, which would be a with the case that he raises, and I will be more than suitable time to raise that important issue. happy to take that up with the Home Office on his behalf. Fees ought to be fair,reasonable and proportionate, Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): May we and I hope the House will remember that the application have a statement next week—preferably on Wednesday—on for settled status for European nationals is free. celebrating United Nations Public Service Day, so that we can show our support for the police, the NHS and everyone who works in the public service? Can the Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con): Tomorrow is the Leader of the House tell me how we will celebrate that anniversary of the vote to set up the steering group to day? Why not have a bank holiday closest to that date? deal with complaints and grievances in Parliament. Will the Leader of the House update us on the latest Mr Rees-Mogg: My hon. Friend’sdesired bank holidays developments on implementing Cox 3? would mean that none of us would ever be working. As a general rule, the Government try to avoid too many Mr Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for statements on Opposition days, as a courtesy to the raising that point, because that is open for consultation Opposition, so the day that he suggests may not be at the moment and may be of interest to many Members. ideal, but I pay tribute to our hard-working civil servants, The Cox 3 recommendation was about how we deal particularly those in the Lord President of the Council’s with complaints of bullying and harassment against office. Members of Parliament in an independent fashion. The proposal being consulted on is that it should be done by Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): If we are not a wholly independent panel, but that if a sanction of to have an oral statement on the Heathrow judgment, suspension or expulsion from the House were to be and given that the Government have decided not to recommended, that would have to be voted upon by the appeal it, will the Leader of the House take this opportunity House. I strongly encourage all Members to make their to confirm that the Government do not intend to keep views known while the consultation is live, rather than the disastrous third runway scheme alive? raising questions with me after it has happened, which is one of the risks of public life. Mr Rees-Mogg: It would be wrong of me to pre-empt the written ministerial statement that will be laid before John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): Following the House today. There are already four oral statements on from the question asked by my right hon. Friend the today, with an important debate on St David’s day to Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), may we have a follow. We have to be courteous towards the House, and statement on vetting processes for officials? I hear what it is unusual for an oral statement to be announced after the Leader of the House said about security issues. the start of business, though not unprecedented. However, the notion that we had a man working at the 495 Business of the House27 FEBRUARY 2020 Business of the House 496 heart of government who believes in eugenics and racial Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I bring good supremacy is deeply alarming and, I hope, unprecedented. news from Kettering, where last night Kettering Borough May we have a statement? Council, of which I have the privilege to be a member, voted for the 10th year in a row—in the teeth of opposition Mr Rees-Mogg: I refer the hon. Gentleman to what I from independent, Lib Dem and Labour councillors—to said earlier about vetting. However, I would say that my freeze its share of the council tax. It has done this at the own view about eugenics—as far as I am aware, this is same time as maintaining frontline public services, as the Prime Minister’s view too, as he stated yesterday—is well as maintaining financial support for the voluntary that it is the most dreadful belief and, to my mind, sector. Will my right hon. Friend the Leader of the fundamentally ungodly. House seek information from the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government about whether (Harrow East) (Con): On 19 April, we any other district or borough council has managed such will commemorate the 101st anniversary of the Jallianwala a fine record? Will he take this opportunity to congratulate Bagh massacre in the Punjab in India. Last year, I led a the inspirational leader of Kettering Borough Council, debate in Westminster Hall, as we approached the centenary, Councillor Russell Roberts, on this fine achievement? and asked the Government to apologise. May we now have a debate in Government time and an opportunity Mr Rees-Mogg: I think a statue should be erected to for the Government to apologise on behalf of the Councillor Russell Roberts for this achievement. It would British people for the massacre in India? come out of public subscription, and I would be more Mr Rees-Mogg: From memory, Winston Churchill than happy to make a modest contribution. It is exactly was himself very clear at the time about the appallingness how government should operate at all levels. I am full of of what happened 101 years ago. A debate was held last admiration—unbounded—for Kettering Council and year, and the 100th anniversary was the right time to do for my hon. Friend in ensuring that Kettering is kept in it. I urge my hon. Friend to raise this matter in Foreign good order. Office questions next month. Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab): Last week, I (Lab): May we have a debate about the role of private met a Coventry business that is owed a significant sector train companies that manage train stations and amount of money by contractors who have poor payment provide substandard facilities for passengers? In Hull, practices and have gone into administration. This company TransPennine Express built new toilets and a waiting may now be forced to lay off workers. Will the Leader room in 2018, but by April they were seen to be botched. of the House grant Government time to discuss how The toilets smell of urine and the waiting room is not contractors drive local companies out of business, not suitable. I was told in December 2018 that they would based on their performance but because their payments be fixed by 2019, but we are now at the end of February have been withheld? 2020—and no action. Mr Rees-Mogg: This is an important issue, which is Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Lady, as always, raises an often raised in this House. I urge the hon. Lady to seek important point about her constituents. She has raised an Adjournment debate on the specific issues affecting the matter publicly, and I hope that the operating contractors in her constituency.However,the Government company is duly shamed by the smell that is coming have codes of conduct, and as the Government ourselves, from the toilets in Hull. When money is spent it should we try to ensure that we pay contractors promptly. be spent properly, and people should be held to account for the way they spend it. James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con): Given the current focus on the imminent strategic defence and security John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con): To follow the theme review,will the Leader of the House agree to a much-needed set by my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes debate on defence? (Martin Vickers), in Carlisle we have part of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs—namely the Mr Rees-Mogg: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend Rural Payments Agency. Will the Leader of the House for that question. The Backbench Business Committee, arrange for a statement on the likelihood of further when it was set up, was given four or possibly five days relocation of the activities of that Department, and in its total allocation that were meant to be for defence, would he support such a move to Carlisle? so that should be raised with the Backbench Business Committee in about a week’s time. Mr Rees-Mogg: My hon. Friend tempts me beyond my brief—one never knows: I might start advocating Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP): I for all those agencies to move to North East Somerset am currently waiting for a response to a public petition rather than to the constituencies of my hon. Friends. that I submitted on behalf of Falkirk’s Forgotten Villages The point has been made and heard, and I will ensure campaign relating to high energy costs of as much as that it is passed on to my right hon. Friend the Secretary £150 per week. Will the Leader of the House assist of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. in moving this issue forward by securing a debate in Government time on fuel poverty and energy price caps? Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab): May I bring the Mr Rees-Mogg: If any hon. Member has not received House’s attention to early-day motion 220 on the a response from a Department in a reasonable amount harassment of trade unionists at London City airport? of time, I am more than happy to facilitate that, but I [That this House reaffirms the right of workers to think that debate is probably one for the Backbench organise collectively into trade unions; stipulates that this Business Committee. right includes workers at London City Airport; notes that 497 Business of the House27 FEBRUARY 2020 Business of the House 498

[Sam Tarry] Midlothian is often referred to as one of the fastest growing communities in Scotland, yet it is now left a Unite the Union activist, was suspended and had disciplinary without a branch of that bank, which was the final one. proceedings brought against them less than two weeks Despite meeting Bank of Scotland immediately after after the airport received an official request for union that announcement, I have had no further answers to recognition in August 2019; recalls that in 2012 an my questions. May we have a debate in Government Employment Tribunal found in an interim relief test in time on what we can do to consider the impact on a London City Airport Ltd v Chacko that another trade community when the final branch of a bank is closed? union representative had been similarly suspended by City Airport three days after the announcement of a recognition Mr Rees-Mogg: This issue is raised regularly in these ballot; states that such intimidation is unacceptable; and sessions, and I have arranged meetings with the relevant calls on City Airport to end harassment of trade unionists Minister. It is important to recognise that these are and enable its workers to decide upon how they wish to be commercialdecisions,andtheGovernmentcannotintervene represented.] in them individually. Banks must balance customer Will the Leader of the House make time for a debate interests, market competition, and other commercial or statement about what has gone on at London City interests when taking their decisions. Since May 2017, airport? Surely a Government who claim to be on the high street banks have signed up to the Access to side of the workers will want to make time for that, so Banking Standard, which commits them to working that Members can hear that such things will not be with customers and communities to minimise the impact allowed to continue. One of my constituents has been of branch closures. If that is not happening, the sacked from their job, specifically for trade union activities. Government will have to look at that very carefully. Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab): In June last year, the Mr Rees-Mogg: Everybody should feel content in Home Office consultation on tackling violence against their place of work. The House of Commons has set up shopworkers ended. I know the Leader of the House the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme to will agree that there is never any excuse for abuse deal with complaints, and we urge other employers to towards shopworkers and will welcome the work being have similar arrangements in place. I tend to think that done by the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied such specific issues are well handled by Adjournment Workers to protect shopworkers. Will he ask Home debates, which bring them to the right level of attention. Office Ministers to come to the Floor of the House to make a statement, so we can start to tackle these Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) abuses? (SNP): My constituent was employed by a recruitment agency but had to leave her job for health reasons. Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely Despite a promise that she would be put on garden leave right. There is no excuse for abusing people who work to help her recuperate, and paid for her two-week notice in shops. It is quite improper behaviour. I cannot promise period, she has still not received the money that she is a statement, but I will raise his question with the Home due for the work carried out. May we have a debate in Office to see what the response is to the report. Government time on the exploitation of workers in the gig economy? Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Like my right hon. Friend the Member for Walsall South (Valerie Mr Rees-Mogg: People who are contractually owed Vaz), the shadow Leader of the House, I was pleased to money must be paid, and the hon. Lady is right to raise notice the motions for the constitution of most Select that issue. A debate on such matters is not necessarily Committees. However, they did not include motions in the right way to go about things, but it is right to raise relation to the Committee on Standards and the Privileges that particular case. I hope that the company will be Committee, both of which have a long legacy of work shamed into making payments, and I feel great sympathy left over from the previous Parliament. Will the Leader for the hon. Lady’s constituent who ought to be paid if advise me when he expects those motions to be tabled? she has done the work. Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Lady is right to emphasise Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): On 9 January the importance of those Committees. Motions will be the Leader of the House advised me to ask the Secretary brought forward as soon as is reasonably practical. of State for Education for a meeting about Lydiate Primary School, and to come back to him if such a Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): meeting was not forthcoming. Seven weeks later, that With further international discussions taking place in meeting has not been offered by Ministers. Will the May in New York, will the Leader of the House make a Leader of the House please intervene, not on my behalf, statement explaining the UK Government’s hostility to but on that of the children and staff of Lydiate Primary the treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons? Does School, which is unsafe and unsuitable for education? he not appreciate that that hostility towards prohibition is inconsistent with the UK’s strategic objectives and its Mr Rees-Mogg: My hard-working civil servants have obligations under article 6 of the nuclear non-proliferation heard what the hon. Gentleman has said, and I will treaty to make attempts in good faith to move towards make sure that that is followed up with the Department the eventual abolition of nuclear weapons programmes? for Education immediately after this statement. Mr Rees-Mogg: I think we have to be realistic and Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP): Bank of Scotland recognise that the world is the world that we live in and recently announced a series of branch closures around that nuclear weapons are around. It is in the UK’s Scotland, including in Loanhead in my constituency. national interest to maintain our nuclear deterrent. 499 Business of the House27 FEBRUARY 2020 Business of the House 500

Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ seriousness. Some £600 million of taxpayers’ money is Co-op): I was confused by the answer the Leader of the being committed to removing dangerous cladding. The House gave to the hon. Member for Bracknell (James Government, and particularly my right hon. Friend, are Sunderland), who is no longer in his place, about the ensuring that the dangerous cladding is removed, and security and defence review. The Prime Minister put out that houses and flats are being made safe for people. If I a written statement yesterday, but he intimated that may say while he is sitting here, the number of times my there would be an oral statement or a debate—and not right hon. Friend has raised this issue with other Ministers, one in Backbench Business time. Can the Leader of the and is pushing for it as hard as possible, can give the House tell us when that will take place, and will the hon. Gentleman confidence. Intelligence and Security Committee have been reformed by then so we can consider the Russia report as a part of Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP): that? Greater Glasgow and Clyde health board has announced a temporary suspension of evening and weekend GP out-of-hours services in Vale of Leven Hospital in my Mr Rees-Mogg: As the Prime Minister has said, constituency, giving the reason that GPs are affected by “Don’t get too excited about the Russian report.” While UK changes to pensions. The British Medical Association it is not released, the conspiracy theorists are having a and the Royal College of General Practitioners have whale of a time. When it comes out, I think they will be highlighted the drastic problems posed to the NHS sadly disappointed. The point I was making is that the workforce by current pension tax policy.Does the Leader Backbench Business Committee was given responsibility, of the House agree that it is now time, before the under its brief when it was set up, for defence debates. Budget, for a statement on what action the Government Of course, if the Government bring forward specific are taking to tackle this issue, which has far-ranging statements, questions will follow those statements. consequences for the whole of the UK? Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman very cleverly On Tuesday, the Mayors of Salford, Manchester and answers his own question when he says, “before the London came together outside Parliament to hear from Budget”. These are matters for the Budget, but I think victims of the cladding scandal. They heard terrible there is a lot of sympathy with what he is saying. stories from leaseholders trapped in properties about the financial ruin they face and the mental torment of Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): In India, attacks going to sleep every night in a flat that they know could by Hindus on Christians and Muslims have increased be a death trap. There is clearly a need for some time for and there is evidence that the police are turning a blind a debate on the Floor of the House, and for clarity and eye. Hundreds have been killed, thousands have been leadership from the Government. The Secretary of State injured and chaos reigns, all because of the new citizenship for Housing, Communities and Local Government, the law that disenfranchises Christians and Muslims. Will right hon. Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick) is sat the Leader of the House agree to a debate on this next to the Leader of the House on the Treasury Bench. urgent and very disturbing matter? Can he guarantee that we will get that time as a matter Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman may well have of urgency? heard my earlier answer to a similar question. I do not want to repeat all of that, other than to reiterate the Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman’s question is point that the Government take this matter extremely very well timed, with my right hon. Friend the Housing seriously. I urge the hon. Gentleman to raise it at Secretary sitting next to me. I can assure the House that next month’s Foreign Office questions. It is a very my right hon. Friend takes this matter with the utmost serious matter. 501 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Rough Sleeping 502

Rough Sleeping Dame Louise to move at a pace commensurate with the seriousness and urgency of the action we must take now. 12.14 pm Meanwhile, we will continue to build on our successful rough sleeping strategy, guided by the best evidence, The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and intervening rapidly where people are sleeping on the Local Government (Robert Jenrick): With permission, streets, and supporting people’s recovery to ensure that Mr Speaker, I would like to update the House on the they never have to sleep rough again. Putting this ambition latest rough sleeping annual statistics for 2019, published into practice, the Government have today announced today, and the Government’s new approach. £236 million of new money for move-on accommodation, I think we can all agree that it is a moral shame that safely supporting up to an additional 6,000 rough sleepers, we see so many people sleeping rough on our streets. We and those at immediate risk of rough sleeping, off the are determined to end the blight of rough sleeping and streets into the safe and secure accommodation they have placed this great social ill at the heart of the moral deserve, with support wrapped around them. This is on mission of the Government. Today’s figures are top of the £437 million that the Government have encouraging. They show that for a second year in a row provided to tackle homelessness and rough sleeping in the number of people sleeping rough has fallen. Across the next financial year, including more than £112 million England, the numbers have fallen by 9%, building on to fund services through the rough sleeping initiative. last year’s reduction which was the first fall in eight This funding will be used by councils to provide up to years. Areas funded by the Government’s rough sleeping 6,000 beds and 2,500 support staff over the next year, so initiative saw a 12% decrease. Manchester is down 26%; the number of beds will be increasing very rapidly. Camden down 54%; Birmingham down 43%; and Enfield We recognise that there are particular challenges in down 69%. Cornwall is down 55%; Hastings down 56%; the responding to the increase in European economic area City of London is down 39%; Swale down 69%; Bedford national rough sleepers, and hon. Members may recall down 41%; and Tameside is down by 86%. London saw that as part of the cold weather fund, the Government a decrease of 11%. That is the first decrease in the took the unprecedented decision to extend limited powers number of rough sleepers in London for six years and to the most affected local authorities to support certain the largest decrease since 2010. That, as colleagues who EEA nationals sleeping rough for a limited period. That represent London constituencies will know, comes despite approach has been successful, with over 400 EEA nationals the very considerable and specific challenges faced in accommodated in November and December last year, the capital, including, as the figures show, the fact that and many of them supported into work or to return 42% of those sleeping rough in the city, and quite home. The Government have today taken the decision possibly more than that, are non-UK nationals. to continue some of those services until 31 December Those figures confirm what I have seen since I became 2020, when the transition period ends and the new Housing Secretary in the summer: dedicated and targeted immigration system will be in place. I will work closely support, backed by significant levels of Government with the Home Secretary on how we address those support, is getting vulnerable people off the streets and challenges at the end of the transition period. into safe accommodation where they can begin to turn While prevention, outreach and emergency support their lives around. The Government’s strategy is working. are of course vital, we need secure, sustainable I would like to pay tribute to the hard work of charities, accommodation to end rough sleeping for good, and service providers, local authorities and many, many increasing the provision of affordable housing is volunteers backed by Government funding across the fundamental to making that happen. This Government country, who are working tirelessly to give rough sleepers have delivered nearly half a million new, affordable the support they need to help them off the streets, and homes. We have also abolished the council borrowing to begin the long and complex process of turning their cap, so that local authorities are able to build up to lives around. That does not mean our work ends here. 10,000 more social homes a year, and many are doing We are perhaps coming up out of the valley, but we are that. very far from the mountain top. We cannot and will not let that momentum slip. That This Conservative Government have made it an is why we have already committed to 250,000 new overriding priority to end rough sleeping by the end of affordable homes by March 2022 through the affordable this Parliament. There is a great deal more to do and we homes programme, backed by £9 billion. Weare increasing must be honest with ourselves about the scale of the the supply of social housing and we will ensure that challenge and tackle it head-on with renewed vigour. rough sleepers, and those at risk of rough sleeping, are That is why I am pleased that the Prime Minister and I provided with homes that are available long term and are today announcing that Dame Louise Casey will are appropriate to their needs. We simply must build lead a review of rough sleeping. This work will consider more homes as a country and I will be doing all I can to the links between 24-hour street activity and rough ensure that that happens. sleeping, particularly physical and mental health issues, However, boosting housing supply is just one of and provide advice to me and to the Prime Minister on many long-term measures that we must take to properly how we can best use the levers of central and local and permanently address homelessness and rough sleeping. government to support this group and continue to We have to redouble our efforts to tackle the underlying reduce rough sleeping across the country. I know that problems that have led many people to fall into a life on Dame Louise’s vast experience, rigour and candour, the streets. Last year, four in 10 of the rough sleeping and the fact that she has worked across party for many population in London were suffering from a severe drug years, mean that she is the right person to look at what dependency and the same proportion were suffering is needed and help to get the job done. I want to support from alcohol dependency. Half of all rough sleepers 503 Rough Sleeping 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Rough Sleeping 504 were assessed as having a mental health support sleeping until 2037, so while the Secretary of State’s need, and, shockingly, data from 2017 indicates that ambitious words are welcome, how does he intend to eight in 10 rough sleepers who have died in London reach his target without further investment? suffered from severe mental health conditions. We cannot The announcement today that the Government will allow this injustice to continue. We are stepping up our go some way towards following Labour’s proposals and work to provide specialist help and support for those fund housing for rough sleepers following the Housing suffering from mental ill health, and that is backed by First model is welcome, but we remember that the £30 million of additional funding from NHS England. Secretary of State’s party promised 200,000 starter homes On top of that, we are working to implement test and did not build a single one. When the Prime Minster models of community-based provision across six projects was Mayor of London, he promised to end rough sleeping that are designed to enable access to health and support in the capital by 2012, but rough sleeping doubled. We services for people who are sleeping rough with both are right to be sceptical and ask the Secretary of State mental ill health and substance dependency needs. Rough to clarify: by what date will these homes will be made sleeping is as much a health challenge as a housing one available? How will the locations be determined? And is and our work will reflect that. We also need a concerted the funding genuinely extra, as he claims, or has it been effort to bring the different support services together—from diverted from other programmes in the Department’s outreach to housing, health, policing and immigration—so budget? that we can effectively tackle the multiple issues that It is not just that the Government have turned a blind lead to individuals finding themselves homeless. eye to the homelessness crisis for so long—which they We are acutely aware of the scale of the challenge have—but they have refused to face up to the fact that before us. Ending rough sleeping within this Parliament they actively created the crisis. They have cut £1 billion is one of the most ambitious targets set by any Government a year from local homelessness reduction budgets and since the publication of the Beveridge report and the there is no commitment to reverse that. They have cut creation of the welfare state. We accept this challenge as investment in new homes for social rent to record levels, a moral mission and obligation that we cannot pass up. with no commitment to reverse that, and they have Many of the underlying causes of rough sleeping that I failed to deliver on their pledge to end unfair evictions—the have spoken about are deep-rooted, built up over successive leading cause of homelessness. generations and successive Governments. I hope that Much like other symptoms of the housing crisis, such Members across the House will support us in this as the spiralling housing benefit bill, the funding needed collective endeavour and help us, as a country, to achieve to tackle rough sleeping will continue to rise if we do this simple but profoundly important objective: to bring not invest in addressing the root causes of the housing rough sleeping to an end once and for all. crisis. That means more than warm words about bringing health and housing together; it means facing up to the 12.24 pm impact of deep cuts to welfare, mental health support Sarah Jones (Croydon Central) (Lab): I thank the and addiction services since 2010. However,the Government Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. are in denial about the root causes of homelessness. Rough sleeping is not inevitable in a country as decent Perhaps that is why the Housing Secretary chose to and well off as ours. The cost of a decade of austerity appoint someone as his Parliamentary Private Secretary, has been over 700 deaths last year on our streets and with specific responsibility for rough sleeping, who huge numbers of children and families in bed-and-breakfast thinks that sleeping rough is a lifestyle choice and who and temporary accommodation. It is the defining mark claimed that of this Conservative Government. Any improvement “many people choose to be on the street”—[Official Report, 29 on that record is welcome, but today’s figures show that January 2020; Vol. 670, c. 858.] the number of people sleeping rough in shop doorways He also claimed that it is more comfortable than going and on park benches is more than double what it was on exercise in the Army— [Interruption.] when Labour left government. That shames us all and it shames Conservative Ministers most of all. It must end. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): Today’s figures come with a big health warning: Order. everyone, from the Secretary of State to homelessness charities, knows that these statistics are an unreliable Sarah Jones: That is particularly insulting to the undercount of the true scale of the problem. The figures hundreds of our armed forces veterans who are sleeping have been refused national statistics status—a mark of rough, who this Government have abandoned despite “trustworthiness, quality and public value” their years of service to our country. Yesterday, Labour’s shadow Housing Secretary, my right As the first snow of the new decade falls on our hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne streets outside, we must face up to the human cost of (John Healey), wrote to the UK Statistics Authority to this Conservative Government: two people a day are ask it to investigate their accuracy. dying on our streets; 127,000 children are homeless in That follows new data obtained by the BBC under temporary accommodation; and the rough sleeping figures the Freedom of Information Act, showing that Ministers are five times higher than the official statistics.Homelessness have been dramatically under-reporting the scale of was tackled by the last Labour Government when we rough sleeping. The BBC revealed that 25,000 people inherited a similar scale of crisis. We reduced rough are sleeping rough in England—five times the number sleeping by three quarters. The Secretary of State’s recorded by the Government’s statistics. Even on today’s announcements today will not go far enough to deliver unreliable figures, the Government are set to break their on his targets. To quote Louise Casey: pledge to end rough sleeping by the end of the Parliament. “We have gone from a beacon of success to an international At the current rate of progress, they will not end rough example of failure”, 505 Rough Sleeping 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Rough Sleeping 506

[Sarah Jones] Lady has done that. I do not think any other Member of this House has spent so much time with members of and we our homeless population. I know for a fact that he has “must not allow this issue to be ignored, we must feel its impact members of staff in his office in this House whom he and act as the country we are proud to be.” has mentored off the streets and into a better life. Sometimes, he asks unacceptable questions, as George Robert Jenrick: I accept the hon. Lady’s comments Orwell would put it, but we have to ask unacceptable and say with all sincerity and humility that we must do questions sometimes if we as politicians genuinely want more as a country to tackle rough sleeping. That is to tackle the big questions of our age. To tackle rough exactly what this new Conservative Administration intend sleeping, we have to tackle addiction. to do. The Prime Minister and I have put this at the heart of our agenda, and we intend to deliver on the (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): promises we have made today. I commend my right hon. Friend on his commitment and the additional investment by the Government, which The hon. Lady asks me about the statistics, but I is starting to bear fruit, although there is still much to think she is misinformed. The statistics published today say. I welcome in particular his recognition that solving are not the Government’s statistics. They are statistics homelessness is not just about sustainable income; it is produced by a rigorous count conducted by local authorities, about dealing with the underlying problems of those with independent verification; they are then compiled who find themselves on the street. To that end, may I independently by Homeless Link, which is the umbrella invite my hon. Friend to come to Worthing to see a organisation for some of the most respected homelessness really innovative scheme—a partnership between Turning charities in this country, including Shelter, Crisis and Tides, a homeless charity, Worthing Borough Council St Mungo’s. The methodology, which has been used for and a developer, Roffey Homes? It has made available a 10 years, is broadly the same as that used in most nurses’ home, which will be developed after five years. developed countries, including Canada and Japan; it is There, rough sleepers are given not just accommodation, highly respected and it is vastly superior to the methodology but support from mental health services and the benefits used under the last Labour Government, when the current office, and help with sustainable living. Because of that, shadow Secretary of State for Housing, the right hon. the number of overnight rough sleepers, which had Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey), was been in the 30s, was down to seven at the last count. this country’s Housing Minister. That methodology That is the sort of innovation and partnership we want. was deeply flawed. It asked local authorities to count I hope my right hon. Friend will come to see the project only if, in their opinion, there were more than 10 rough and make sure the example is spread throughout the sleepers in their area. As a result, there was no count in country. vast parts of the country. The statistics published today are robust and a huge improvement on those that came Robert Jenrick: I would be delighted to visit my hon. before them. Friend’s constituency. At the heart of our new strategy The hon. Lady asks about the rough sleeping initiative is bringing together a co-ordinated approach in central and the funding we have put in. In fact, the increases are Government. Dame Louise Casey and I will work to significant. RSI funding has gone up by 30% this year. ensure that all of us—the Department of Health, the We are spending £400 million in the next financial year, Department for Work and Pensions and the Home and the announcement made today is of an additional Office—work together as a team to deliver our commitment. £236 million—and yes, it is new money. We already see that work in local communities by some The hon. Lady spoke about housing more generally. I brilliant charities. For example, St Mungo’s takes mobile have to say that last year we built more homes in this hubs to rough sleeping hotspots to bring all the services country than we have in any year of the last 30. On together. That is the surest way to tackle the challenge. average, we are building more affordable homes every Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (SNP): I year than the last Labour Government built, and more am grateful to the Minister for advance sight of his council houses were built last year than in the 13 years statement. I agree that it is a moral scandal that we have of Labour Government. Where does Labour have control? rough sleeping in this day and age, and I wish him every In Wales. How many council houses were built in Wales success with his strategy to tackle rough sleeping by the last year? Fifty-seven. How many were built the year end of this Parliament. before? Eighty. How many in each of the three years before that? Zero, zero and zero. What is the No. 1 I have a few points to make. First, in the four years to challenge facing the Government in achieving our housing 2019, the Scottish Government delivered five times targets? The failing Labour Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan. more social rented properties per head of population than the Westminster Government. Progress out of The hon. Lady asks about our commitment to a poverty is thereby made more likely. Poverty rates are fairer deal between tenants and landlords. In the Queen’s lower in Scotland owing to the existence of affordable Speech, we said we would introduce a renter’s rights housing. Earlier this month, the Joseph Rowntree Bill, which will be a significant piece of legislation. We Foundation reported that are in the process of drafting that Bill, which will “for someone with the same life circumstances such as qualifications, absolutely bring an end to section 21. wage and family type, progress out of poverty is more likely if Finally, the hon. Lady made some disparaging remarks they live in Scotland or Northern Ireland than the rest of the about my hon. Friend the Member for Gravesham UK.” (). I point out politely that in the past The JRF also attributes lower poverty rates in Scotland few years, he has spent over five months sleeping rough than in England and Wales to on the streets of London, Birmingham and New York “lower rents in the social housing sector as well as Scotland city. I may be mistaken, but I do not think the hon. having a higher proportion of social rented properties”. 507 Rough Sleeping 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Rough Sleeping 508

I have a couple of questions. Will the Government’s Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): I commend my review of their homelessness strategy look at what is right hon. Friend for his statement and for the work being done in other countries, including Scotland? Will that he is doing to end rough sleeping for good, but they follow the Scottish Government’s lead in building rough sleeping is clearly the tip of the iceberg—the genuinely affordable housing? visible sign of homelessness. It is estimated that more than 300,000 people in the country are homeless on any Robert Jenrick: I am grateful the hon. Gentleman for one day, and to achieve my right hon. Friend’s aim, we those comments. We will certainly and happily look at will need to build not 10,000 but 90,000 new social the experience in Scotland and other parts of the Union, homes a year. What measures will he take to ensure that as we do at international examples. One of the purposes we build the homes that are needed, especially in London—I of bringing in someone as respected as Dame Louise know that he has condemned the current Mayor of Casey, who not only has a great deal of experience London—so that people are not forced to sleep rough? within the UK but is an internationally respected figure, The human and financial cost of putting those people is to learn from other parts of the world. I believe we are back on their feet is huge. already doing that. Our Housing First pilot is learning from what happens in Finland and the United States Robert Jenrick: Let me again praise the good work and we have seen tremendous progress—success rates that my hon. Friend has done, not least in presenting up to 90% in some areas. First is the simple aim of the Bill that became the Homelessness Reduction Act 2017, getting people into accommodation; then there is provision which has played such a crucial role in driving some of of sophisticated, long-term, wrap-around support. We the results that we are seeing today. He is absolutely are keen to learn from best practice all over the world. right: we must not simply deal with the symptoms, but also tackle the cause. That may include some of the Angela Richardson (Guildford) (Con): Will the health issues that we have already discussed today, but independent review by Dame Louise Casey engage with the fundamental issue for me as Housing Secretary is the many excellent charities across the country, such as that we must build more homes of all types in all parts St Mungo’s and Crisis, as well as Guildford Action, of the country. Last year we built more homes than had which is a local centre of excellence in my constituency been built in any of the last 30 years, but we have now helping those who are homeless and sleeping rough? set ourselves the objective of building a million new homes during the current Parliament, and we would Robert Jenrick: It certainly will. As I said, there are like to see house building rise to 300,000 homes a year many fantastic organisations across the country. It has by the middle of the decade. been my pleasure to visit many of them in my brief These are difficult and challenging targets which will tenure as Housing Secretary.I went with the Prime Minister require further Government investment in infrastructure this morning to visit the Connection by St Martin in the and affordable housing, and we intend to make that Fields, where I met staff and clients involved with the investment. They will also require a great many councils work there. I pay tribute to them and to other organisations to make difficult decisions. If councils really care about across the country. We want to learn from them and the acute housing need in their communities, they will ensure that we build on their work. have to use imagination and determination to ensure that the necessary homes are built, and we will be Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): I welcome the pushing them to do so. ambition the Secretary of State has set out. As he knows, a service at St Paul’s cathedral two weeks ago, in Sir Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): which my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of Does the Secretary of State agree that it is a moral State took part, celebrated the work of the church-based scandal that hundreds of homeless people are still dying homelessness night shelters in London. There is now at every year on our streets, without the palliative care that least one in every London borough, each involving they ought to receive during their last weeks and months? seven or sometimes 14 places of worship. They spare Will he look at the Homelessness (End of Life Care) thousands from sleeping rough in London during the Bill, which I introduced in the last Parliament? Will he winter. Will the right hon. Gentleman join me in also agree to meet me and the charities that helped me commending the work of those many volunteers, but to write the Bill, including Pathway, St Mungo’s, Hospice also agree with the preacher at that service, the Bishop UK and Shelter, and enable them to use some of the of Edmonton, who said that volunteers should not funds that he has announced today—in conjunction really have to take this work on? with the NHS—to end the scandal of terminally ill homeless people dying without proper care? Robert Jenrick: I was sorry not to be able to join the right hon. Gentleman at that service. I intended to be Robert Jenrick: The right hon. Gentleman has made there, but a commitment arose in the House. I absolutely a number of important points.It was for those humanitarian pay tribute to volunteers across the country and the reasons, among others, that we chose to use the derogation very important work done by churches and other faith enabling public money to be spent on compassionate organisations, which I think we all know about from services for non-UK nationals on our streets. We did our constituencies, but which is particularly prevalent not feel it was right that those individuals were suffering in London. Of course there is a role for the state. I hope in silence and we were unable to support them. As I said he can see from my commitment and that of the Prime in my statement, there are serious underlying issues. Minister today that we intend to put in the resources, According to the latest figures that we have, from 2017, but this is also a moral issue for all of us as a country. I about 90% of the people who have died on our streets think we should see great organisations and volunteers, were suffering from serious mental health conditions, praise them, and encourage them to continue their and we need to address those. I shall be happy to meet good work. the right hon. Gentleman. 509 Rough Sleeping 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Rough Sleeping 510

Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): taking with the Ministry of Justice to tackle the problem I welcome the additional funds, but will they be made of people who are released from prison without secure available to the councils around the country that accommodation? Crisis has raised the issue of the are working hard to end rough sleeping, including criminalisation of homeless people who are rough sleepers. Wolverhampton? May I also invite my right hon. Friend Does the Minister support the repeal of the Vagrancy to visit a charity that he knows well, the Good Shepherd Act 1824? Ministry in Wolverhampton, to see the new facilities that have just opened? Robert Jenrick: We are reviewing the Vagrancy Act, taking into account the differing opinions on the way Robert Jenrick: I should be delighted to visit forward, and will deliver advice on that shortly. We are Wolverhampton. As I have said before, I volunteered at absolutely focused on the challenge of ensuring that that charity as a teenager,and it is a fantastic organisation. ex-offenders can have safe and secure accommodation We will be working to see how we can roll out the funds and begin to rebuild their life. We are investing in pilots to provide those 6,000 move-on units across the country, that are being organised by my hon. Friend the Member which we will do in various ways: through new properties, for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall), the homelessness through use of the private rented sector,and by refurbishing Minister, and we are working closely with the Lord existing accommodation. Chancellor, as we did with his predecessors. There are numerous good examples in the west midlands. Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con): I welcome Housing First is being piloted there, and just before my right hon. Friend’s announcement of additional Christmas I visited Walsall, not so far from my hon. funds and an urgent review. May I also pay tribute to Friend’s constituency, to see a lady who had moved into our wonderful local charities and Stoke-on-Trent City good-quality accommodation for the first time in many Council, which have been doing such tireless work in years after sleeping rough in Walsall. That is exactly the this regard? kind of intervention that we want to see throughout the country. A couple of weeks ago I had the privilege of seeing a production by a charity called Voices of Stoke, which Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab):The south-east has presented the back stories of people who were sleeping the highest rates of homelessness outside London. The rough and examined their complex needs.It was enormously Secretary of State has mentioned the provision of beds powerful. I think that we all welcome a knowledge of and the moving-on service, but does he recognise that the complexity of why people end up on the streets. this issue does not simply relate to those who are Does my right hon. Friend agree that no solution that sleeping in doorways, although that is bad enough? might help to end rough sleeping once and for all Every day my team helps families whose members— should be taken off the table? sometimes pregnant—are often sleeping three or four to one bedroom. When will affordable, suitable Robert Jenrick: I certainly do. I hope that my hon. accommodation come to Canterbury for them, so that Friend, and other Members in all parts of the House, my team no longer has to bid daily for the two or three will recognise not only our determination to tackle the properties that are currently available? issue but the fact that we are taking a nuanced view of a complex and sophisticated challenge and bringing together Robert Jenrick: We are investing more than ever all Departments, from health to housing, to address it. before in affordable housing. Our affordable homes I payparticular tribute to the volunteers,the organisations programme is a £9 billion commitment to provide 250,000 and the Conservative-led council in Stoke. The city has affordable homes. We have also made a manifesto seen a reduction of more than 50% in the number of commitment that when the programme ends we will rough sleepers over the last year, which is a tremendous replace it with another, which I hope will be bigger and achievement, and I hope that my hon. Friend will pass more ambitious and help to make genuinely affordable on my thanks to all who have been involved in those homes available in more parts of the country, including efforts. Canterbury. Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) Mark Logan (Bolton North East) (Con): I welcome (Lab): Rough sleeping has quadrupled in Hull over the my right hon. Friend’s positive statement. Will he join last decade, which I think we can all agree is shameful, me in paying tribute to the only Conservative-led council but does the Secretary of State agree with the statement in Greater Manchester, which is working to bring an by St Mungo’s that £1 billion less is being spent on end to rough sleeping in Bolton? supporting single homeless people than was being spent a decade ago? Robert Jenrick: I certainly will. I do not have the figures for Bolton at my fingertips, but Greater Manchester Robert Jenrick: We have been taking action through achieved a significant reduction in rough sleeping as a the Homelessness Reduction Act, and there will be result of good work by councils and funding from the important work for us to do as we approach the rough sleeping initiative, and we want that to continue. I comprehensive spending review to ensure that councils believe I am going to visit Bolton shortly. I know that have the funds that will enable them to continue their my hon. Friend and some of his councillors have been own work. We have also ensured that the local housing very involved in that initiative, and have been raising allowance will no longer be frozen, but will rise in the money for local charities by sleeping rough. next financial year in line with the consumer prices index. As I have said repeatedly, the central task for me Bambos Charalambous (Enfield, Southgate) (Lab): as Housing Secretary is to build more homes of all An estimated two thirds of released prisoners who are types in all parts of the country, and I certainly hope we homeless go on to reoffend. What steps is the Minister can work with the council in Hull to deliver that. 511 Rough Sleeping 27 FEBRUARY 2020 512

Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con): I warmly welcome Child Protection my right hon. Friend’s statement, and thank him in particular for the £576,000 that has been awarded following a joint bid from Aylesbury Vale and Wycombe District 12.50 pm Councils, which cover my constituency along with Chiltern The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the and South Bucks. Does he agree that we need to encourage Home Department (Victoria Atkins): With permission, more councils to work together to tackle homelessness, Madam Deputy Speaker,I would like to make a statement not least so that they can build the strongest possible on Her Majesty’s inspectorate of police, fire and rescue partnerships with charities and specialist service providers, services’ thematic report on its national child protection which do not necessarily organise according to council inspection programme.This important report was published boundaries? today and summarises the findings of 64 inspections and re-inspections of police forces’ approaches to child Robert Jenrick: I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. protection since the programme began in 2014. There are some fantastic councils across the country, Keeping our children safe is an absolute priority for and today’s figures would not have been achieved without this Government, and we welcome Her Majesty’s them. I pay tribute to them, and encourage them to inspectorate’s work in this area. Protecting vulnerable continue to learn from each other and work with voluntary people should be of utmost importance to the police, groups, with charities and, of course, with the Government. and we are committed to ensuring that police forces If there is anything further that we can do to assist my demonstrate continued improvement in this regard. The hon. Friend and his colleagues in Buckinghamshire, we activity of our independent inspectorates is critical to will certainly do it. our ability to monitor progress and drive change. In the five years since it began, the national child protection inspection programme has been a vital source of independent scrutiny and challenge, and it has been instrumental in driving improvements in the way the police work with vulnerable children. As we know too well, this is an area of police work in which we have seen some of the worst failures in the past. The report notes that “we have continued to see an unambiguous commitment from police leaders, officers and staff to the protection of children.” The report recognises improvements—in some cases, significant improvements—in the service received by children at risk. In every case, when inspectors returned to a police force that had previously been inspected, they saw progress being made and better outcomes for children. They saw examples of good, innovative work, such as the programme in Wales to provide early support to children exposed to adverse childhood experiences. Officers are better at understanding the signs of vulnerability and recognising children who are at risk. We welcome the positive findings in today’s report. The report is clear, however, that more needs to be done. Although the police have a better understanding of risk, their resources are too often focused on areas of acute risk. Not enough is being done to spot the earliest signs of risk and prevent those risks from escalating. There are concerning findings around the detention of vulnerable children. Children are too often being detained in custody when they should not be, and they are not being appropriately safeguarded in those situations. There are inconsistencies in how forces manage dangerous offenders, and the escalation in the prevalence of digital technology in offending is a significant challenge, meaning that it is taking too long to identify and safeguard children who have been the victims of sexual abuse online. These are serious matters, and I want to set out the steps the Government are taking to address them. As the Home Secretary stated yesterday, we are an ambitious and dynamic new Government with law and order at our heart. Our mission is clear. It is to deliver on the people’s priorities: to cut crime and to protect the public. We have recognised the huge demands placed on our police forces, and we are addressing these pressures with the recruitment of an unprecedented 20,000 additional 513 Child Protection 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Child Protection 514

[Victoria Atkins] support available to the children, young people and families who are affected. This is in addition to establishing officers over three years. We are investing a further the national county lines co-ordination centre, with £1.1 billion in policing next year—taking the total up £3.6 million of Home Office funding, and providing a to £15.2 billion—with the help of police and crime range of support for county lines victims. We also commissioners using their precepts. The Prime Minister recognise that by the time children experience these forms and the Home Secretary are driving a united Government of exploitation, the harm has been done. Police and response with a new cross-Whitehall crime and justice other services need to spot the signs of risk and intervene taskforce to ensure that we use every lever at our earlier. Through our £13 million four-year trusted disposal to fight crime. However, as today’s report relationships programme, we are trialling 11 innovative makes clear, the rise in high-harm crimes such as serious projects in England working to protect vulnerable 10 to violence and child sexual abuse is having a particular 17-year-olds who are at high risk of sexual exploitation impact on the most vulnerable, requiring more from our and other forms of harm. We want to do more, however, police officers. They need to be able to look beyond the which is whythis year we will be publishing a first-of-its-kind obvious and to develop a deeper understanding of risk. national strategy to tackle child sexual abuse and We have worked with the College of Policing and are exploitation. providing £1.9 million of funding to develop a more Wewelcome today’sreport. The protection of vulnerable comprehensive package of training for first responders, children from harm is of the highest priority to this so that they are better able to identify signs of vulnerability Government, as it should be to our police forces, and and provide support to victims. We have also funded the the inspectorate’s work in this area is vital in shaping police’s own vulnerability, knowledge and practice our work in the future. The Home Secretary intends to programme to develop policing best practice in response meet inspectors to discuss today’s report and understand to vulnerability as a whole. The programme is recognised what more we and the police can do to ensure that in today’s report for its work to evaluate best practice in children receive the highest levels of protection in the early intervention. We have introduced stronger multi- future. I commend this statement to the House. agency child safeguarding arrangements with shared responsibility between local authorities, police and health 1 pm partners for the local strategic response to safeguarding, Louise Haigh (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab): This report is including harms such as child sexual exploitation. Again, utterly damning and should shame us. It finds that the these reforms, which were implemented in every local current system of protecting the most vulnerable children area in England last September, are recognised in today’s in our country is unsustainable, that the approach of report as a key opportunity to deliver the kind of police forces is not proactive enough, and that vulnerable systemic change we need to see. children are simply not being identified or protected, In relation to the inappropriate detention of children, with resources and the failures and variability of partnership we will look carefully at the recommendation and do working being identified as key concerns. The report what we can to ensure that vulnerable children receive comes on the same day as a leaked Government report an appropriate service from the police. We will continue into the drug trade, which shows that vulnerable children to monitor the effectiveness of the 2017 concordat on are falling into the grip of gangs at an unprecedented children in custody, which sets out the statutory duties rate. Those are two sides of the same crisis that is of the police and local authorities and provides a protocol reaching into every town and community across the for how transfers should work in practice. country. Today’s report also recognises that the nature of risk The Children’s Commissioner has been sounding the is changing, and investment in officers and changing alarm for several years now. She found that 2.3 million police culture are only part of the solution. That is why children are living with risk because of their vulnerable we are investing in new capabilities to tackle the exploitation backgrounds, and as many as 1.6 million of those of vulnerable children through crimes such as child children have patchy or no statutory support whatsoever. sexual exploitation, child criminal exploitation and county After a decade in which the safety net that vulnerable lines. Last year we announced a £30 million investment children rely on—Sure Start, family support services, in funding for work to tackle child sexual abuse and speech and language therapy, behavioural support, social exploitation in 2020-21. The new funding will include services and probation—has been picked away, it is investment in the child abuse image database—CAID— becoming far too easy for the most vulnerable to be which the Home Office has developed in collaboration preyed upon by serious organised criminals. with UK law enforcement. CAID is a single database of It is thoroughly unacceptable that the police are not indecent images of children which enables UK law recognising or evaluating risks to children well enough, enforcement to work collaboratively to safeguard children as the report has found. Children living in care are not and bring people to justice. The new funding will allow being properly protected. Schools are becoming too us to deliver upgrades to CAID, including a fast, forensic eager to expel and off roll. Pupil referral units are tool to rapidly analyse seized devices and find images becoming recruiting grounds for vicious criminals. The already known to lawenforcement; an image categorisation total lack of both mental health and residential care algorithm to assist officers to identify and categorise beds has led to too many children being inappropriately the severity of illegal imagery; and a capability to detect detained or being ferried around the country in the images with matching scenes to help to identify children backs of police cars. This is a whole-system failure, and in indecent images in order to safeguard victims. the consequences for children and families are stark. We have announced £25 million of targeted investment Over £880 million has already been lost from children’s across 2019-20 and 2020-21 to strengthen the law and youth services since 2010. The flagship early enforcement response to county lines and increase the intervention fund announced by the former Home Secretary 515 Child Protection 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Child Protection 516 last spring was supposed to make funding available for across England and Wales. The projects include work critical support to steer young people away from serious with children and young people at risk of criminal violence, but answers to parliamentary questions have involvement, and organisations safeguarding those at revealed that more than 60% of bids from police and risk of gang exploitation and county lines, or those who crime commissioners for these projects, including 24 in have already offended to help divert them into positive London alone and one to tackle the vicious exploitation life chances. At least 60,000 children and young known as county lines, have been rejected. The former people will be reached through the fund by the end of Home Secretary had previously promised to do everything March. in his power to tackle county lines exploitation and the The £200 million youth endowment fund is targeted vulnerable children swept up in it, but he then quietly at funding and developing early intervention projects rejected a £1.3 million bid from West Mercia, Staffordshire over 10 years, and it undertook its first grant round last and Warwickshire to fund a project designed to tackle year. Twenty-three successful applicants were identified, exactly that. In total, the Government are funding only and the interventions range from intensive family therapy 29 diversion projects nationwide. to street-based and school mentoring programmes. The If this report is not the catalyst for the Government 23 projects are located across England and Wales and to get serious, nothing will be. We know from the Prime will share £17.1 million over two years, and of course Minister’s short time in office that he goes missing when the fund has a further eight years to go. things get tough and there are difficult questions to be I am pleased that the hon. Lady mentioned the answered. When it comes to protecting the most vulnerable adverse childhood experiences work in Wales. The Home children, we simply cannot afford for him to do so Office helped to fund that work, because we want to test again. and pilot to see what works, so that other agencies and Turning specifically to the report’sfindings, the Minister local authorities can learn from best practice. knows as well as I do that data sharing comes up The hon. Lady rightly raised data sharing. All of us repeatedly in serious case reviews and in response to involved in the arena of preventing and trying to prevent child protection. Despite specific amendments to the child exploitation will agree with me when I say that if I Data Protection Act 2018 that allow the sharing of data had a pound for every time people talked to me about for safeguarding purposes, it remains an issue. What collaboration and data sharing, believe you me we would more can we do to break down the organisational and be able to spend even more money than we already are cultural silos that are preventing data sharing and stopping on intervention projects. She rightly and kindly referenced organisations working together to protect children? the fact that we included a specific section in the 2018 With police forces and services facing unsustainable Act to give professionals the certainty that if they are demand, what resources will the Government put in sharing information for the purpose of safeguarding place to tackle that need and properly fund local authority vulnerable people, they are perfectly entitled to do so children’s services after £880 million was taken from and, indeed, should do so. We are beginning to see their budgets? Given that the report praises the approach culture changes in some of the agencies we are working with, in Wales to adverse childhood experiences and the but she is right that far more needs to be done. Reports collaboration of the four forces there with local services such as this one will hopefully drive that change. to provide targeted early support, what plans do the The hon. Lady knows that we are helping to invest in Government have to replicate such an approach in violence reduction units in police forces across the England? We have consistently said that implementing country.That will also encourage the use of data sharing, a public health approach to meeting that crisis will and the forthcoming serious violence Bill will put in require leadership from the Prime Minister down. That statute the duty of various agencies to work collaboratively can be done, but it requires political will to bring to prevent serious violence. I have always been clear that together and co-ordinate the agencies, Departments that will have a trickle-down effect on other types of and police forces that can make a difference in identifying criminality, violence and sexual violence. and protecting children earlier. Clearly that is happening in some local authority and force areas, but it is far too In conclusion, the report sets out some real challenges inconsistent, so will the Prime Minister now convene a for policing, as we have said, but it also shows that there taskforce, led from central Government and chaired by have been improvements. I am keen to emphasise that, him, to bring together the services and identify the so that we have a fair debate about the issues that have support that will have a tangible effect and ensure that been raised. the national strategy on child abuse is led from the heart of No. 10? Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con): I refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ Victoria Atkins: I thank the hon. Lady for her response Financial Interests. I welcome these inspections, but the and questions. She knows, I hope, about the early results are alarming. According to the NSPCC, a child intervention work that we have been investing in. There is abused in this country every seven minutes. The is enormous agreement across the House and in all the report includes comments such as agencies we work with—those that work on the frontline “The police do not recognise or evaluate risk to children well with young people who are at risk of serious violence or enough… the police often carry out more complex investigations sexual exploitation or both, or other forms of risk—that badly… Too often, the focus is on the incident, missing the bigger early intervention is absolutely key to this, because we picture.” want to prevent harm in the first place. This is not about better police investigation; this is Over the past few years, we have invested £22 million about a change of mindset. The situation is particularly in the early intervention youth fund, which is supporting disappointing given the first comprehensive child sexual 40 projects endorsed by police and crime commissioners exploitation action plan was launched back in 2011. 517 Child Protection 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Child Protection 518

[Tim Loughton] commissioning decisions in relation to exploitation more widely than simply sexual exploitation and, of course, What the Minister is proposing is not the first plan, and in their work to hold the police to account on this issue. we also had the recent Operation Augusta review into The hon. Lady should ask the chief constable whether the failings of Greater Manchester Police. he or she has confidence that the force is working in When the report refers to the accordance with the vulnerability knowledge and practice “opportunity to use new statutory local safeguarding arrangements” programme that we have funded to enable policing best as a successor to local safeguarding children’s boards, practice to develop in response to vulnerability.Vulnerability what opportunities does she think the police will take? is key to many of the crime types we see nowadays, and it should be at the front of every chief constable’s mind. Finally, the primary recommendation of the report is that the Home Office should consider “the development of a new national early help and prevention Several hon. Members rose— strategy” but that was key a recommendation of the Munro Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): review, which I commissioned in 2011. Why is that still Order. We have a very well subscribed debate after this. just a recommendation? I would like to finish this statement by 1.20 pm, so I ask for brief questions and replies, please. Victoria Atkins: I thank my hon. Friend for his questions, and I know he has great expertise and interest Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con): Does the Minister in this area. With this early intervention we are not just agree that tackling child exploitation, whether it happened setting strategies but implementing work across the yesterday or 20 years ago and wherever the crime took country through the targeted funds we have set up, place, is a vital aspect of our civil and decent society? including the youth endowment fund, which is deliberately designed to take place over a 10-year period so that the Victoria Atkins: Of course I agree, and my hon. investment rolls through various spending reviews. It Friend will know about the work of the independent has been protected so that we can invest to learn and inquiry into child sexual abuse on historical allegations discover which projects work and which do not. It is fair of institutional abuse and, indeed, about the work of to say that there have previously been misunderstandings police forces up and down the country to investigate not about what works, and we want to learn more so that just current allegations but historical allegations, too. local authorities and other commissioners invest wisely. I take my hon. Friend’s point and thank him for his (Telford) (Con): I thank the Minister for information about an earlier iteration of the child sexual her statement. One of the most challenging aspects of abuse strategy. We are looking across all the typologies child sexual exploitation is that vulnerable victims find of child sexual abuse. There are many typologies, it very difficult to work with the police. All too often, particularly nowadays, sadly, with the prevalence of the police attitude towards these vulnerable children is online abuse and exploitation, which I am afraid can that they brought it on themselves or even that they take place with just an ordinary mobile phone and can consented to the crimes against them. What is she doing have devastating consequences for the child who is to challenge those attitudes and to ensure that, no targeted, not just in the immediate circumstances of the matter how vulnerable the child or what their background, photo or video being taken but, of course, for many they are taken seriously and that these crimes are years thereafter, as we are discovering through our work prosecuted? with WePROTECT. I am very conscious of my hon. Friend’s observations, Victoria Atkins: I am extremely grateful to my hon. and I am happy to meet him to discuss them further, Friend, who does so much to represent the interests of because we want to get this right. her constituents in this regard. Some of the reports we have seen from, say, Operation Augusta—there are other Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) examples—have been absolutely shocking in the allegations (Lab): The Minister has referred to the stronger multi- of what police officers may or may not have said to agency child safeguarding arrangements that were young people reporting very serious crimes. Let me be introduced in September 2019. She says it is recognised clear at the Dispatch Box that no child should be that they are a key opportunity to deliver the kind of subjected to sexual exploitation or abuse. No child systemic change we need to see. should be dismissed in the way they sadly have been My hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Heeley historically. We should all see what we can do, not just (Louise Haigh) has said that police forces are not active as constituency MPs but as friends, neighbours and enough. As a constituency Member of Parliament, I am family members, to ensure every child feels safe to concerned about children’s services in Hull. Humberside report incidents of abuse and that those reports are police is responsible for ensuring the safeguarding of taken seriously and are listened to. children in Hull, so what should I ask its chief officers to deliver to make sure children are kept safe? Katherine Fletcher (South Ribble) (Con): Along with other colleagues, I was with the Children’s Commissioner Victoria Atkins: The police and crime commissioner yesterday at the early years advisory board. What repeatedly obviously sets the priorities for the force, so I would go came up was the importance of cohesion in our response to them before going to the chief constable. Police and during those early stages. What is my hon. Friend doing crime commissioners play a vital role in commissioning to ensure the Home Office works with other Departments local services, and we have seen some excellent to have a joined-up response? 519 Child Protection 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Child Protection 520

Victoria Atkins: The Home Office works with other other things can do in this space to help ensure that we Departments because these crimes draw on so many get the perpetrators of these terrible crimes and also facets of public life. The Prime Minister and the Home protect and safeguard victims. Secretary are leading from the very top with their cross-Whitehall taskforce, and getting agencies across Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con): The Minister’sanswer the country to work together will be critical to these to my hon. Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Ruth considerations. Edwards) is helpful. I was disturbed to learn from the Internet Watch Foundation a couple of weeks ago that online child David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) sexual exploitation is increasing internationally,particularly (Con): Will the Minister commit to a discussion with in certain countries. Will my hon. Friend the Minister local authorities about their reflections on the outline what the Government are doing with countries implementation of the Wood review? She mentioned in around the world to ensure we are tackling this globally? her statement that the review is strengthening local accountability arrangements. In particular, will she have Victoria Atkins: That is an area in which this country discussions with colleagues in the Department for Education genuinely leads the world. Under Prime Minister David about how schools, which are often a crucial part of Cameron, we set up an organisation called the effective safeguarding but are currently completely absent WePROTECT Global Alliance. It draws countries together from these arrangements, can be brought into an element so that we can act internationally, because perpetrators of rigorous local accountability? often film the images in one country and it is open to people throughout the world then to see whether they Victoria Atkins: My hon. Friend raises an interesting have access to that website, database or WhatsApp point about schools and accountability. As part of the group. Through WePROTECT, we are working with taskforce led by the Prime Minister, we will be looking countries, getting them to sign up to the principles—some at greater departmental working across Whitehall. My of these countries perhaps do not have the same legislation expectation is that local government will play its role in that we have in place—and encouraging best practice, all our work to tackle these abuses. With his expertise, I so that we can help protect children in not only this am, of course, very happy to meet my hon. Friend to country, but across the world. discuss how we can take this further. Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con): I welcome the investment in the county lines co-ordination centre, Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con): I welcome the £30 but I am concerned that looked-after children can be in million funding boost that the Home Secretary has facilities that are not registered and not regulated. I delivered to protect children from abuse online and to urge my hon. Friend to ensure that our looked-after track down offenders. Will my hon. Friend outline how children are really looked after. this money will help to better protect children from Victoria Atkins: I very much agree on that. My hon. these terrible crimes? Friend has identified a salient point about how these manipulative perpetrators target children precisely because Victoria Atkins: This is an emerging crime type. The of their vulnerability in their family or other circumstances. evilness of the people who conduct abuse online is truly That is one reason why we have launched the trusted shocking to behold. I recently visited the CAID operation relationships fund, which I believe is now in its second centre, and I pay tribute to the officers who work year. It has been set up to help children who have been extremely hard in, frankly,pretty harrowing circumstances let down by almost every adult in their life. It helps —I saw some of the images they have to sort and these children to build a trusted relationship with an classify. We have invested this extra money to help adult, be they a social worker,a youth worker or somebody officers digitally and technologically, because there is so different. It helps those children have an adult they can much that the development of artificial intelligence and trust and confide in. 521 27 FEBRUARY 2020 522

Point of Order Welsh Affairs

1.21 pm 1.23 pm Sir Edward Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): On The Secretary of State for Wales (Simon Hart): I beg a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Earlier today, to move, the Court of Appeal handed down an historic and fantastic ruling, judging that the Government’s Heathrow That this House has considered Welsh affairs. expansion decision was unlawful because it did not take Let me welcome everybody to this St David’s Day account of the Government’slegally binding commitments debate, where we have some veterans and some first-timers. on climate change. The Secretary of State for Transport I have to apologise in advance, because I need to leave has tweeted that the Government “won’t appeal” against to entertain some visitors from Wales in No.10 during the ruling, but the Government’s transport policy is the course of this debate, so if I slip away, there is a now in confusion and chaos, along with their climate good reason for my doing so. [Interruption.] I apologise change policy. Could you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to Opposition Members who have not received their through the Chair, use your good offices to ask the invitation quite yet. Government to make a statement to this House as soon This is a fantastic opportunity to champion Wales at as possible on how they take this decision forward? We a national level, and to highlight the potential and hope that the Government will confirm that the expansion resilience of our constituencies. I wanted to start by of Heathrow has now been consigned to the dustbin of discussing resilience, because there has been no greater history. example of it than the response to the recent flooding events in Wales and further afield. I have visited Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I communities in Carmarthen and Pontypridd, and the thank the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order, Under-Secretary of State for Wales, my hon. Friend the which, as I am sure he realises, is not a point of order Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies,) has been for the Chair. I can inform him that the Leader of the around and about in the Monmouthshire area, where House was asked about this issue during the business the Rivers Wye and Usk have caused such devastation. statement earlier, and I believe I am right in saying that We have spoken to emergency services, agencies, MPs, he said that a written ministerial statement was going to AMs, local authorities and the Welsh Government on be issued. In the meantime, I am sure that those on the numerous occasions. It is encouraging to see that when Treasury Bench will have heard the right hon. Gentleman’s things such as this really matter, there is a such a request for an oral statement and he will, no doubt, be widespread degree of co-operation between those agencies. pursuing this in the ways with which he is well acquainted. Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab) rose—

Simon Hart: I am not going to take every intervention, but, in the spirit of collaboration, I will give way on this occasion.

Mark Tami: The Secretary of State has told us where he has been, but does he know when the Prime Minister has been to Wales or whether he is intending to go there?

Simon Hart: I am surprisingly grateful for that intervention, because it allows me to say that the Under- Secretary will wave a letter from the head of his local authority that asked us specifically not to interfere and get under the feet of emergency services by going to these areas before the moment was right. I have spoken to a number of local authorities and they echoed that view, so rather than make this a political stunt, we let the experts get on with what they wanted and needed to get on and do.

Several hon. Members rose—

Simon Hart: I will continue, if I may. The most important people we have spoken to during this incident have been the families and businesses affected. This has been horrendous for them and it remains so, because these weather patterns have not completely worked their way through.

Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC) rose—

Simon Hart: I will of course give way to my neighbour. 523 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 524

Jonathan Edwards: The Secretary of State will know want to know precisely who owns them. We have asked that Carmarthenshire has a history of flooding. There for a risk assessment to be undertaken as a matter of were big floods there about a year ago, and even now urgency as to the integrity of these sites and what some of the families and businesses affected are still exactly the legal liabilities are and where they lie. We recovering. One big issue is that they cannot get insurance have also asked for an outline of a potential timescale after having been flooded. There is a huge market and cost for addressing problems associated with these failure in that insurance market and public intervention sites, bearing in mind that it is difficult to get on to them will be needed. Will he press his colleagues in the UK at the moment because of the weather conditions that Government to come up with a UK Government insurance caused the problems in the first place. I also assure scheme to support families who cannot get insurance colleagues in the House that we will update them just as because of flooding? soon as we have information that we think is viable and useful. Simon Hart: As the hon. Gentleman knows, this issue has come up a number of times in the decade in which Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab): I am extremely grateful we have been in this House. The answer to his question to the Secretary of State for giving way; he knows that is yes, but it is never as simple as it seems. All sorts of this issue is of huge concern to those of us who represent contributory factors are involved, with planning being Rhondda Cynon Taf constituencies, as I do. May I one, but I assure him that we will take that issue press him a little? He spoke about the liabilities, but will seriously and look into it. he assure me and other Members that no matter where I had wanted to mention financial assistance, because responsibility lies, the UK Government will provide it was raised during yesterday’s Welsh questions and funding to ensure that the coal slips are safe? He will agree Prime Minister’s questions. It is an important moment that we do not want a repeat of what has happened in to restate what the Prime Minister said yesterday about the past, when Governments have argued over maintenance, money being “passported through” in relation to this. controls and safety, and we have had situations like The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) is not Aberfan. here, but if he were, he would talk about this as being a Union issue, as he did yesterday. We agree that it is a Simon Hart: The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Union issue, which is why we are working so closely My referencing liability was not to pre-warn him that with the Welsh Government to make sure that we know we will somehow try to excuse ourselves from liability; precisely what they need and when they need it, while it is just so that we understand exactly what the legal not interfering with the devolution settlement. position is regarding ownership, because there may be things such as access issues, which we need to understand. Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): Bearing These things are always frustratingly complicated. in mind that the Rivers Severn and Wye have an impact I wish to use this opportunity to be positive about on communities in England, if the Welsh Government Wales, because there is much to be positive about. This were to approach the UK Government for additional discussion is about opportunities, jobs, growth, culture support specifically to address that flooding, how would and identity— the Secretary of State respond? Geraint Davies rose— Simon Hart: We will respond in the way we always do to Welsh Government requests for assistance, in whatever Simon Hart: It will also be about an opportunity for form it might be requested, by taking it extremely the hon. Gentleman to intervene—in a minute, but not seriously and respecting the views that they express. yet. I have been waiting 10 years for the opportunity to However, in the two meetings I have had with the First be able to turn the hon. Gentleman down. I am not Minister so far,it is clear—this is no criticism of him—that going to lose out on that. we are a long way off being able to measure precisely what that request might consist of. When it comes, we In Wales, there are now 144,000 more people in work will take it seriously. than there were in 2010 and 90,000 fewer workless households than there were in 2010. Before anybody Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op) rose— sticks up their hand and says, “Ah, but they’re not real jobs,” or, “Ah, but they’re zero-hours contracts,” even if Simon Hart: Not at the moment, thank you. It is we take the most pessimistic view of those figures, it is nothing personal, obviously. still a remarkable testament, not necessarily to the At this time, I just want to mention the potential for Welsh Government or even the UK Government, but to landslides, which, obviously, has caused almost as much the businesses and individuals in Wales and their resilience concern as some of the flooding risk. In the past few in being able to create and sustain that positive economic days, that issue has become particularly significant, and picture. I wanted to update colleagues by saying that I have met Since 2010, GDP per head in Wales has grown by the First Minister to discuss it. We have brought all the more than the UK average, and in the past year alone relevant stakeholders together,either by way of conference 51 foreign investment projects have come our way, call or in person on Monday this week. Just so that creating 1,700 jobs. We have institutions such as INEOS those co-signatories know, I should say that we have Automotive in Bridgend; Admiral and GoCompare; also received a letter from the hon. Member for Rhondda Airbus and Toyota in Deeside; Aston Martin in St Athan; which asks some of the questions that I hope to be able Bluestone and Valero down in my part of the world, in to answer now. west Wales; Tata, Celsa and Liberty Steel; numerous The First Minister and I have asked for an up-to-date successful holiday and leisure small and medium-sized database of the sites involved—it may surprise some to enterprises around the coast; agri-tech in Aberystwyth; learn that no such thorough document exists—as we a cyber-security hub in Newport; Zip World in north 525 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 526

[Simon Hart] This is not all about the traditional industries that I have already listed; it is also about innovative Wales; and a growing renewables hub in the Milford business: artificial intelligence, virtual reality, compound Haven waterway. I know that every single colleague semiconductors, cyber-security,FinTech, InsureTech—lots present will have a fantastic example of people who of stuff with tech in the name—and many more cutting- have created interesting, diverse and profitable businesses. edge new industries dotted around, not necessarily in the centres of Wales where people would expect to find Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ them. These businesses offer long-term, well-paid, skilful, Co-op): The Secretary of State mentions many companies, green jobs and keep home-grown talent in Wales. including some in my constituency. It is crucial that through a great education system we equip the younger Geraint Davies: The Secretary of State has mentioned generation to prepare for the opportunities in those the impact on Wales of climate change in terms of companies, so will he join me in congratulating the flooding, and he is now mentioning the opportunities; Welsh Labour Government on the investment that they will he reconfirm that he is looking again with fresh have put into my constituency? We have new schools in eyes at the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, including at its the east of Cardiff and in Penarth, and a new further financial structure and its cost relative to the price of education college—Cardiff and Vale College—and we future energy, which will go up? We cannot use all the have seen the improvement of a whole series of educational coal and oil, because we will all burn up. It would be a facilities at every level. pathfinder for new opportunities for export growth, not just in Wales but throughout the UK. Simon Hart: As the hon. Gentleman knows, I will always congratulate any Government of any colour if Simon Hart: In answering that, I want to avoid giving they do the right thing by jobs and growth. the hon. Gentleman the impression that we are just going to dust off the original tidal lagoon proposal, On renewables, which I have touched on, Wales’s because that would possibly build up false hope. I can electricity is already 50% powered by clean energy, and I say that tidal lagoons as a concept were and remain am committed, as I know colleagues are, to seeing that something of significant potential for Wales and the figure rise. This is of course the Prime Minister’s year of rest of the UK, but any project obviously has to meet climate action, building up to COP26, and Wales has a the right value-for-money criteria. role to play in that, just as it does in a low-carbon We have talked about the traditional industries; Wales economy. also has a fantastically expanding creative industry offer. Who would have thought it? Not many people Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): The know—apart from those in this Chamber, obviously— Secretary of State is making an important point about about “Doctor Who”, “Hinterland”, “Keeping Faith”, Wales’s potential contribution towards meeting renewable “Casualty”, “Gavin & Stacey” and, of course “Sex energy targets.Does he agree that one of the big constraints Education”, which is filmed in my ministerial colleague’s— we face in Wales is grid capacity? I know that he has not been long in the job, but has he had a chance to have Geraint Davies: House. [Laughter.] any discussions with Western Power or National Grid, for example, about how we can enhance grid capacity so Simon Hart: In the constituency of the Under-Secretary that more renewables projects can be taken forward? of State for Wales.

Simon Hart: The answer is a partial yes. As my right Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con): I pay tribute hon. Friend knows, businesses in the Carmarthenshire to that programme, but apart from the brief sight of a element of my constituency in particular are constrained Welsh flag, one would not know that it is filmed in by grid capacity. In my capacity as an MP, my answer is Wales. We need to look at Netflix and the new creative yes; in my capacity as Secretary of State, my answer is industries and think about reminding people that we that it is on the to-do list. It is an urgent issue that have these great facilities. colleagues from raised with me towards the back end of last year. Simon Hart: Absolutely. My hon. Friend should raise that question with the Digital, Culture, Media and Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con): My right hon. Sport Committee, because it would seem to me to be the Friend has mentioned the importance of clean energy subject of an inquiry that that Committee might enjoy. in Wales; would he be willing to meet me and other On the subject of culture, we have a fantastic, rich colleagues, together with the proposed developers of and vibrant heritage. The fact that we have more than the Colwyn Bay tidal lagoon, and preferably with the 600 castles—more per square mile than any other part Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth, to of the world—is a source of great pride. We have discuss the possibility of developing that very important world-class museums, we have galleries, and even the contributor to clean energy in Wales? slate landscape of north Wales has been nominated for UNESCO world heritage status. Simon Hart: My right hon. Friend is right, and yes I In sport, we have won a grand slam since the previous would of course love to do that. There is a feeling in St David’s Day debate. I will not make any further some quarters that perhaps we have turned our back on predictions on that score. In Tenby in west Wales we tidal lagoon energy; no, we have not. On anything like host Ironman Wales, the only competition in Wales that that project, which has good potential and offers value attracts more than 2,000 competitors from 35 countries. for money for taxpayers, I will of course meet my right Last year, Loren Dykes of the Welsh national women’s hon. Friend and any other colleagues who may have football team was honoured with her MBE, and Wales similarly encouraging projects to promote. has again qualified for the Euros. 527 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 528

Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab): Will the Secretary Simon Hart: No, no, hold tight. I liked the idea of a of State join me in welcoming to the House a very good £20,000 dragon statue in Ebbw Vale, but the test of friend of mine, Lowri Morgan, a woman I used to play these things must be how they have contributed positively rugby with back in the day, who is renowned for her to jobs and growth. My challenge to the Welsh Government ultra-marathons and adventurism? She is here to join is for the UK and Welsh Governments to work the Secretary of State in Downing Street this afternoon. collaboratively on the shared prosperity fund to make I also welcome her father, Dr Morgan, who is also my sure that those objectives are met and are driven by constituent. local demand.

Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab): She wants us Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): I thank the Secretary to come. of State for giving way. It really is a travesty for him to attempt to depict European funding in this way.European funding has been a huge boost to the Welsh economy. Tonia Antoniazzi: Lowri would love us to be there this We need only look at road infrastructure, the colleges, afternoon. I had to explain the order of events; the voluntary sector that has benefited and the training unfortunately we will not be able to join the Secretary of that we have put in place. All those things are very State. Sport is a massive industry in Wales—it is very positive, but what he has presented is a gross caricature important and very close to our hearts. It is important of reality. that we raise the profile and importance of sport for everyone, especially women. Simon Hart: It is in fact quite the opposite. I suspect that what I have done is cause a certain amount of Simon Hart: I very much look forward to meeting embarrassment. We all know and understand that the Lowri in No. 10. We will, of course, have a drink funding does not always work in the way that it should. together and think of you all in here as we do. I made it absolutely clear that the examples I gave are Let me return briefly to our economic prospects. No the exceptions, not the rule. My point is very clear. St David’s Day debate, certainly in recent years, would There should be a collaborative approach by the Welsh be complete without mention of our departure from the and UK Governments to prioritise jobs and growth. If EU, which was voted for in Wales by a margin of 5%. the Welsh Government or Welsh Labour cannot live The result of the election towards the end of last year with that, that is their problem, not mine. confirms the Union ambitions and Union values of our residents. Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ Co-op) rose— That leads me neatly to the shared prosperity fund, which is the subject of much discussion in this House Simon Hart: I will give way once more, to the hon. and elsewhere—what it means, where it is going, what it Gentleman. will include, who will be responsible for it and so on. I have always said, and I said it on the day I was appointed, Stephen Doughty: I thank the Secretary of State for that this is a nice problem to have—large sums of giving way; he is being generous—but also uncharitable. money to be distributed by politicians elected in Wales My hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Wayne by Wales for the first time in nearly 50 years. The shared David) made his point; I can point to examples in my prosperity fund for me, and I am sure this view is shared constituency. In Butetown, EU funding went to the by the Welsh Government, too, is about jobs and growth. community centre, the youth pavilion, and regeneration It is about priorities that benefit everybody across the in one of the most deprived areas in Wales.The Government country, not just specific parts of it. It is not about have not given answers as to where funding will come vanity projects and ideas that may sound good and even from to ensure that the so-called levelling up agenda look good, but that do not deliver on those two core can be delivered. They need to answer those questions. objectives. One of the reasons why the EU referendum vote went Simon Hart: The hon. Gentleman is quite right. the way it did, why there was such a heated debate about Those questions will be answered. Whether they are it, why there was such frustration sometimes about the answered now or at a future stage is a matter for him to knowledge that there were large sums of money that judge. I am conscious that I have been super generous never quite reached the places that they were meant to with interventions, and that I must now get on with my go, is because there are examples—admittedly not many— few remaining comments. such as the funicular, a £2.5 million EU-funded project As the hon. Gentleman has just mentioned, levelling in Ebbw Vale. It broke down more than 250 times up and strengthening the Union are our buzzwords. between June 2015 and November 2017, and it cost That means road, rail, air, and digital infrastructure Blaenau Gwent Council £52,000 a year. I have not been improvements. It means mobile phone coverage in the aware at any time in recent years of residents of Wales most hard-to-reach places and cross-border connectivity. campaigning for more of that kind of thing. Techniums If we want an argument in this place, let us have one are another example. I have one in my constituency. The about the M4 relief road. Let us hear from Opposition 10 innovation centres, costing £38 million of EU funds, colleagues about what pressure they are putting on the failed to meet job targets, and six centres closed after Welsh Government to remove that blockage and unleash nine years. They were even described by the Lib Dems economic potential throughout south and west Wales. as a white elephant. Not a single business from the west coast of Pembrokeshire to the does not believe that the project is Geraint Davies: Will the right hon. Gentleman give a good idea. The blockage appears to come from the way? First Minister’s Office, so if colleagues share our ambition 529 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 530

[Simon Hart] of Wales, or are moving to Wales, perhaps for work. The vibrancy of the language and its future are important. for the project, let us hear from them. I will take any The Welsh Government ambition, which I fully support, intervention from the Opposition confirming their is to have 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050. That will be enthusiasm for that improvement. [Interruption.] Okay, achieved only if that is seen as something that we can perhaps not. aspire to achieve without fear of political retribution if We also want a more reliable rail service and charging we somehow fall short. Inserting the odd word of Welsh points for electric vehicles. For those who say, “What into a speech or article does not do the trick. It is a lazy has HS2 ever done for us?”, I would say this— way of attempting to do our duty by the Welsh language. We have to go further than that, and my hon. Friend the Geraint Davies rose— Under-Secretary of State will say more about that later. On that point, Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it is Simon Hart: No, I will not give way, because I must time for a gwin coch mawr over in No. 10. Those are the get on. I was talking about the benefits of HS2. Whether three words of Welsh that I have learned and have it is by direct connection to a new form of rail infrastructure, carried me through the most difficult situations over the the like of which has not been seen since Victorian past 10 years. This is a great occasion. It is a brilliant times, or whether it is by being able to tap into the opportunity for us to speak about the positives of supply chain opportunities, HS2 benefits not just those Wales. I look forward to hearing the rest of the on the route that it will follow, or in the cities that it will contributions. join. It will help link up the UK, which will be good for the economic prospects of Wales. 1.49 pm Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op): I thank the Jonathan Edwards rose— Government for bringing forward this debate on Welsh affairs. Of course, the calendar dictates that we are Geraint Davies rose— unable to hold the debate on St David’s Day, as 1 March falls on a Sunday this year. Nevertheless, the debate remains a firm fixture in our parliamentary business, Simon Hart: No, I will not give way. My mood has providing a great opportunity to discuss the issues, changed. I am no longer co-operative and collaborative. challenges and priorities that matter to Wales. On defence, we have, in our ministerial team, two I also thank the Government for granting the debate people who have worn a military uniform—that of the in Government time, which has not happened for many Royal Artillery in the case of the Parliamentary Under- years; not, I think, since the right hon. Member for Secretary of State for Wales, and that of the Royal Chesham and Amersham (Dame Cheryl Gillan) became Wessex Yeomanry in my case. We have an instinctive Secretary of State—I am sure that my hon. Friend the love, affection and respect for the defence industry, our Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) would be able to soldiers, sailors and airmen, and we want to see more of correct me on that, were he here, as his knowledge of them in Wales. We want to ensure that their veterans’ the House is far better than mine. Certainly, since I have railcard is delivered in exactly the same way by the been taking part in St David’s Day debates, they have Welsh Government as it will be by the UK Government been Backbench Business debates. in November, and we want to preserve and enhance the Yesterday I bumped into my good friend Albert Owen, Ministry of Defence footprint in Wales. the former Member for Ynys Môn. We were reminiscing Let me turn to the question of steel, which is of huge about Welsh affairs debates, among other things. Seeing significance to a number of constituencies, including Albert reminded me just how much I miss him, Ian mine. I reassure the House that the UK Government Lucas, David Hanson, Susan Elan Jones, , recognise not only the economic value of steel, but its Madeleine Moon, Anne Clwyd and, last but not least, social and cultural importance in Wales. We are working my former shadow ministerial colleague, Chris Ruane. with steel companies to find out, and be absolutely clear Those dedicated Welsh MPs have given years of service in our minds about, what they see as a sustainable steel to the people of Wales, and their work should be industry, and what UK and Welsh Government support celebrated for all that is good about being a Welsh they need to be able to develop that. I will be at Tata Labour MP. We have two great new Labour MPs, my Steel Port Talbot tomorrow. I hope to meet the hon. hon. Friends the Members for Cynon Valley (Beth Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) there to discuss Winter) and for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones), who these issues further. are already making their presence felt and will be fantastic I want to end on a cultural matter to do with the additions to our Labour Team Wales. Welsh language. I am very proud of the fact that S4C Not many hon. Members know this, but in my moved its headquarters from Cardiff to Carmarthen. It constituency of Neath we celebrate not only St David’s is, of course, the only Welsh language broadcaster. As Day, when the children dress up in Welsh costumes to somebody who has, as the hon. Member for Newport celebrate our Welsh culture, but St Patrick’s Day. Patrick East (Jessica Morden) knows, a limited grasp of the was born in Banwen, at the top of the Dulais valley, but Welsh language—she would argue that I had a limited he was kidnapped as a child and taken to Ireland. Every grasp of any language—this is of real significance. It is year we hold a fantastic celebration at a stone we have about far more than viewing figures. I am anxious to erected to his memory in Banwen. Schoolchildren, residents make sure that the language is seen as approachable, and special guests come along to hear the great Roy Noble fun, and significant. The moment it becomes politicised, giving one of his memorable speeches about St Patrick. it turns off people who might be taking their first steps We are indebted to the famous local historian George with the language—whether they are already residents Brinley Evans, now 93, who researched this phenomenon 531 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 532 and was the leading protagonist in establishing the climate change. We need urgent action, immediate help St Patrick stone and the annual event. Please join us. and long-term solutions; we cannot just wait for a We have a leprechaun who comes all the way from report to come back. Ireland to take part too. I look forward to seeing Members there on 17 March. Christina Rees: My hon. Friend makes an important It is regrettable that I must begin my proper address point. When I have visited homes that have been flooded in sombre tones, as we reflect on the impact that recent or affected by landslips over the past few weeks, it has events have had on our great nation. Two storms and broken my heart. People who do not have insurance unprecedentedfloodinghavetakentheirtolloncommunities have had their homes destroyed yet again. Yes, we need across Wales, including, but not limited to, Rhondda action, and we need it now, because the weather forecast Cynon Taf, Llanwrst, Monmouth and parts of my is definitely not favourable for the next few weeks. Neath constituency. From severe damage to bridges and A quarter of all homes and businesses were flooded iconic landmarks, such as the national lido of Wales, to in Rhondda Cynon Taf alone, with a potential bill of the destruction of the entire contents of family homes, £30 million—twice the council’s annual capital budget. these floods will cost Wales dearly. I must commend the work of the Rhondda Cynon Taf The First Minster, the Leader of the Opposition and, MPs and AMs and the leader of Rhondda Cynon Taf indeed, the Prince of Wales have visited households and Council, Andrew Morgan, who is also leader of the communities right across the country, but alas the Prime Welsh Local Government Association, which has done Minster could not find the time to visit just one of the some fantastic work. flood-damaged areas of the UK. He has said many There is so much to celebrate about our great nation, times that he would not “die in a ditch”, but perhaps he some of which I will discuss in a moment, but there are was missing in action because he fell into the moat also a great many challenges and a level of uncertainty surrounding his holiday castle, or perhaps he could not in our communities, against the backdrop of Brexit and find his wellies. the negative effects of austerity on so many Welsh The community spirit and response in our devastated communities and families. Welsh communities has shown the world the best of These challenging times make it more important than Wales: compassion, kindness, humour and solidarity ever to have a strong Welsh Labour team of MPs here in have shone through the contribution of volunteers, Westminster, working with the First Minister, Mark emergency services, council workers, welfare halls, miners’ Drakeford, and the Welsh Labour Government in Cardiff institutes, Royal British Legion branches, rugby clubs, Bay. It remains a huge privilege to serve as the shadow the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Secretary of State for Wales, supported by my hon. Animals and so many more. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds), our Welsh Whip, my hon. Friend the Member for Craig Williams: The hon. Lady missed that the source Newport East (Jessica Morden), and our wonderful of the Severn is in Montgomeryshire, in mid-Wales. Welsh Labour MPs. Although I will not politicise this or make tribal political points about missing one of the biggest floods in Wales, This Tory UK Government have continually failed will she reflect on the fact that we have to work together Wales, and unfortunately the Wales Office continues to to ensure that people recover as soon as possible from fail to stand up for the people of Wales. We were this tragedy, and that does not include cheap political promised the electrification of the Great Western main shots of the sort she has made thus far? line to Swansea, but the UK Government changed their mind. The Swansea bay tidal lagoon was recommended Christina Rees: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his by this Government’s own inquiry, but they ignored it, intervention. We always work together, but the Prime and Wylfa Newydd has been paused. The people of Minister is the leader, so he should have visited the Wales hear loud and clear the UK Government’s promises areas affected. to our country, and the people will hold them to account for their failure to deliver. We demand more, and we Many local authorities are pulling together to support demand better. those who are most severely impacted by the floods, working in the most demanding of circumstances to get The UK Government must recognise the folly of the quickest possible support to those in need. However, continuing to frustrate efforts to launch a major new the UK Government must now step up and recognise domestic market for Welsh steel. The pathfinder tidal the disproportionate and intense impact that the floods lagoon in Swansea bay requires around 100,000 tonnes have had on Wales. We need additional funding for of steel, much of which could be sourced in Wales, Wales. We need protection for emergency household against a very clear commitment from the investors and payments. We need immediate help for those who do businesses involved to buy Welsh. The past 12 months not have insurance. We need support for those who have have seen the loss of hundreds of jobs in the steel lost their jobs and livelihoods. industry, in Tata’s Orb steelworks in Newport and in Liberty Steel in sites in south Yorkshire and south Geraint Davies: My hon. Friend is probably aware Wales. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Newport that more severe weather conditions are expected over East and for Newport West () for their the coming seven to 10 days, so is she as concerned as I tireless campaigning on behalf of our steelworkers. am about the saturation of coal tips and the like? We Wales needs investment, as the UK as a whole needs need an urgent assessment of whether there is an imminent investment, and the people of Wales will judge this risk to villages and hamlets in the valleys, which are Government harshly if they continue to fail to deliver it. susceptible to flash-flooding and slides, because of the Opposition Members will continue to speak up for topography of the valleys and the increased risk from Wales—for Welsh families, communities and businesses— 533 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 534

[Christina Rees] Christina Rees: No, of course —that road is going ahead. It is only the UK Government who have prevented and for the devolution settlement itself. It is not for any it from going ahead faster. I do not know where I am UK Government unilaterally to rewrite the rules of now; the hon. Members have completely lost me. devolution by attempting to power-grab and centralise [Interruption.] functions set out in law and agreed through the ballot box, using Brexit as a cover for those actions. Despite Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): Order. what the Secretary of State has said about the UK We must not have heckling—well, not much—of the shared prosperity fund, it is still a mystery to me. We shadow Secretary of State. continue to wait and wait for the much anticipated consultation, and for any details whatever on how the Christina Rees: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. fund will be implemented. It must respect devolution I am going to finish now, because I am sure that lots of and be overseen by the Welsh Government, and we other Members want to speak. must not see a penny less or a power lost. I commend the report produced by the all-party parliamentary Jonathan Edwards: Will the hon. Member take a group for post-Brexit funding for nations, regions and friendly intervention before she moves on? local areas, led by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock). Christina Rees: I was getting to the good bit, but I will The people of Wales have a right to see a UK give way to my constituency neighbour. Government acting in their best interests, protecting their jobs and investing in the public services they rely Jonathan Edwards: I am sure the hon. Member will on and the infrastructure we desperately need to secure also have some concern about the negotiating mandate Wales’s future. Despite a decade of austerity and a set out today by the British Government in relation to 7% real-terms cut to funding per head of the population, the second phase of Brexit and the trade negotiations. the Welsh Government have continued to lead the way Indeed, the Welsh Government have issued a stern in delivering landmark legislation and progressive policy statement indicating that they were not consulted at all making. The Human Transplantation (Wales) Act 2013, about the mandate. I fear that the best we can hope for the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, is a bare-bones free trade agreement. The Welsh economy the Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual will be more exposed because of our reliance on exports Violence (Wales) Act 2015 and the Nurse Staffing Levels into the single market. What does the hon. Member (Wales) Act 2016 are groundbreaking examples of a think the Welsh Government should do now, since the modern legislature creating laws that make a difference British Government clearly are not taking any notice of for the people of the nation. Wales’s position? The Welsh Government have also introduced policies such as free bus travel for the over-60s, free swimming Christina Rees: The hon. Member makes some very for children and older people, free school breakfasts, good points. It has been a concern of mine for a long free prescriptions and free hospital parking, as well as time that the Welsh Government have not been involved being the first nation of the UK to introduce the in the negotiations. They have to be involved; this is the 5p carrier bag charge. They have banned smoking in future of Wales that we are talking about. I am really cars carrying children, and Wales has the third highest disappointed that they have not been involved to the recycling rate in the world. That is just a brief glimpse extent that they should have been. of what has been delivered during the past decade. The Now I come to the good bit. The House will know achievements of the Welsh Government are, quite honestly, how passionate I am about sport. Wales is a sporting nothing short of remarkable. nation. When Wales wins the people of Wales are very Craig Williams: On that point, will the shadow Secretary happy. When we lose it is the end of the world. I went to of State give way? the Wales versus Italy match, which was a great result, as the House knows—I don’t think I want to talk about Christina Rees: For the hon. Member, of course. the other matches, so I will move swiftly on. My constituency of Neath has a proud sporting Craig Williams: I could not resist intervening at this history.The Welsh Rugby Union was created in the Castle particular moment—I rather thought it was 1 April, not Hotel in Neath. The best player in the world, Gareth St David’s Day. Will the hon. Member comment on the Edwards, was born and bred in Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen. report of the Wales Audit Office that pointed out the Dan Biggar’s family was born and bred in the Dulais several hundred million-pound overspend on the heads valley, where I live, as was Dennis Gethin, who recently of the valleys road and other significant infrastructure stood down as chair of the WRU. Of course, Neath projects over the decade that the hon. Member said was RFC are also called the All Blacks—a great tribute. so successful? In a former life I was a squash player and played for Christina Rees: As the hon. Gentleman knows, European Wales over 100 times. It was a great honour to pull on funding produced the heads of the valley road. the red jersey of Wales. I became national coach for Squash Wales, and one of my roles was to develop squash for all Craig Williams: So it’s okay to waste it? ages and all standards throughout Wales. We have a superb junior development structure, which has produced Christina Rees: Pardon me? some great players. I am very proud to say that on St David’s Day we will have two senior players ranked in Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con): So it’s okay to the top 10 in the world, and they have both come through waste it? the junior structure: Tesni Evans, based in Prestatyn, is 535 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 536 two times British champion and bronze medallist at the of months. So my first thought is this: how do we—as last Commonwealth games; and Joel Makin from Aberdare, 40 Welsh Members of Parliament from different locations a member of the Welsh men’s team who came third in and parties, and with different sets of interests and the last world championships. Wales is again showing backgrounds—make sure that Wales shares that sense that we are punching above our weight. of a fresh start for this Parliament? The Government are absolutely clear that this is going to be a changed Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): Will the hon. Member Parliament—a Parliament where things get done and give way? get moving—so how do we work together to make sure that Wales can be part of that in a very positive way? Christina Rees: Sure—a squash player? There are some major opportunities ahead for Wales which, if we can work together, can be harnessed for the Rob Roberts: Not a squash player, but almost. On a benefit of all of our constituents. There are also challenges sporting theme, would the hon. Member be kind enough ahead, and we should not be shy about discussing those. to pay tribute to the wonderful Jade Jones from Flint in my constituency who has, since the last time this debate Regardless of all our individual perspectives, one was held—since last St David’s Day, in fact—become thing that I think we can agree on is that the general 2019 world champion in taekwondo? election that we all went through in November and December did not result in a vote for things to carry on Christina Rees: Of course I will. Jade is fantastic as they had been. It was not a vote for more of the same, advocate for women’s sport, and I am glad that the hon. and it certainly was not a vote for more of the same in Member intervened to mention her. Wales. Those of us who were here in the previous Coming back to squash, there is a great injustice. We Parliament, particularly in the past couple of years, will have been campaigning for many years to get squash look back on the sheer sense of frustration that we were into the Olympics. It has never been included, despite all feeling week by week, with nothing happening and having championships at every national and international nothing moving—the sense of everything being gummed level. I have been banging on about this for quite a few up and stuck. When we went back to our constituents years, so I ask all Members to join me to ensuring that we would hear and feel the anger from constituents who squash becomes an Olympic sport. had also sensed that feeling of frustration. We have now I am not the only Welsh Labour MP who has represented turned that corner, and it is incumbent on all of us to be Wales. My hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia able to demonstrate to our voters, who have put us all Antoniazzi) is a Welsh rugby international. I must say here, that we can get things done in this Parliament. I that that game is far too tough for me; one good tackle am not just talking about big issue of Brexit and all the and I think I would be done for, so I will stay off the practical issues that follow from the Brexit vote. I am rugby field. talking about other issues as well—some of the themes That is enough from me. I look forward to all Members’ that other Members have raised, such as infrastructure contributions and wish the whole House a happy St David’s and other projects. Perhaps we in this Parliament Day for Sunday. can do a little better at working together in the years ahead. 2.7 pm I mentioned the work of the Welsh Affairs Committee Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): It is a in the previous Parliament. It did brilliant work, on pleasure to follow the shadow Secretary of State, the a cross-party basis, to bring forward practical hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees). She is such a recommendations that even led to the very good decision powerful voice for Welsh sport and for women’s sport of the previous Welsh Secretary to remove tolls on the across the United Kingdom. Severn Bridge. Right on cue, the hon. Member for I will begin by congratulating the new ministerial Newport East (Jessica Morden) has walked in. That team at the Wales Office, who have made a really superb proposal started off as a recommendation from the start, with energy and a sense of purpose; they are Welsh Affairs Committee. It was due in no small part to doing a really good job. I also thank all Members on the efforts and lobbying of members of the Welsh both sides of the House who nominated or supported Affairs Committee that that change got through. So me to be the Chair-elect of the Welsh Affairs Committee. working together, I believe that we can get things done I am conscious that I have very big boots to fill, given for Wales. that the previous Chair of that Committee over the last Another thought I would like to share is how we, as two Parliaments is the current Under-Secretary of State Members of Parliament, address the issues in this place for Wales, my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth that affect our constituencies. Those of us who have (David T. C. Davies). It has been made clear to me in no been around for the bulk of the past 20 years, during uncertain terms by different colleagues that they expect the era of devolution, have rather got used to delineating me to continue his collegiate and constructive style of in our heads between devolved issues and non-devolved leading the Committee. I will endeavour to do so while issues, being careful not to speak about devolved issues also relishing the prospect of scrutinising the work of and carefully treading with sensitivity on the right side the previous Chair and that of my right hon. Friend the of the devolution boundary. However, the truth—I saw Secretary of State for Wales. this during the election campaign when talking to voters There has been something of a fresh mood in this on the doorstep—is that voters do not care whether an place since the start of the year, on the back of the issue is devolved or non-devolved, or whether it is a general election and other changes. That sentiment is local authority issue. They just care about the issue and not only felt on the Government Benches; I think that expect us, as someone standing to be a Member of all Members, in different ways, have been feeling the Parliament, to care too, and to have something meaningful fresh atmosphere around this place over the past couple to say about it when, if we are fortunate enough to be 537 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 538

[Stephen Crabb] Yes, there is a role for party political debate and conflict at times, but there is also a strong role for co-operation elected, we come up to this place. We are not trying to and a Team Wales approach from all 40 of us. blur the devolution boundary or be clever with it; we I will finish by talking about a practical issue that has respect where the different responsibilities lie. already been discussed in part—the shared prosperity Weshould not be shy,as Welsh Members of Parliament, fund. I very much hope that the new Welsh Affairs about talking about education and healthcare. I am Committee will take an early decision to get its teeth really pleased to see the new hon. Member for Cynon into scrutinising the progress in Government on making Valley (Beth Winter) here today, because some of her decisions about the shared prosperity fund. In the eyes predecessor’s most powerful contributions in recent years of many colleagues, this is fundamentally a constitutional were on the state of the NHS in Wales. We remember question of who gets to make the decisions—where that very keenly. I think that many of our voters do now the balance of responsibility lies between Cardiff and understand very clearly the devolution split. When we Westminster over that pot of money. For me, it is explain to them the different responsibilities of Cardiff primarily an economic issue of how we put that money Ministers and Ministers here in Westminster, they nod to good use to benefit the economy. I tried to intervene their heads and show they understand, but they are still, on my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on this as I say, looking to their Members of Parliament to point. I do not think that he or anybody else questions demonstrate that we care, that we understand, and that the fact that previous rounds of EU funding have gone we have a view. to useful causes and good projects—we see that in all Over the past 20 years, during the course of devolution, our constituencies where this money has been received—but there has been something of a process of the diminishing the fundamental point is that the primary objective of importance of Westminster, or an attempt to diminish EU structural funds is to close an economic gap between its importance in the eyes of Welsh voters, and an poorer regions and areas and an EU average, and if that increasing emphasis on the importance of the in economic gap has not been closed, there are some hard Cardiff Bay. One of the ways that I interpret the Brexit questions to be asked about whether the money can be vote is that it was about voters saying that they value used to better effect to achieve stronger economic growth. what goes on in Westminster. It is not about saying that That is the opportunity that I want the Welsh Government the Welsh Assembly is less important, but Brexit is and the UK Government, working together, to take partly about restoring this place to its rightful prominence with regard to the shared prosperity fund. I very much as the key arena of UK-wide debate and the contesting hope that the new Welsh Affairs Committee will get its of different ideas. teeth into that. As Welsh Members of Parliament, we stand as equals Geraint Davies: Does the right hon. Gentleman agree in that. I have made my views known about the— that, while it is imperative that we have control and use the money effectively, we must not lose the overall Mark Tami: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? amount of money that we are allowed to spend? The shared prosperity fund must grant Wales the quantum Stephen Crabb: I know what the right hon. Gentleman of money that we got from convergence funding so that is going to say, so I will give way. we can use it better but do not have less.

Mark Tami: I raised this issue in the Chamber the Stephen Crabb: I do agree. I am concerned about other day when we had the English-only votes and I was three things: first, the size of the pot; secondly, who gets unable to express my view on funding for Countess of to make the decisions about how the pot is used; and, Chester Hospital. That hospital was built to serve Deeside thirdly—crucially—how the pot is used. and Chester and the area around it. An English Member of Parliament miles from that area is allowed to express Craig Williams: It is forever about money, money, a view on it, whereas I am not, even though many money, but the Government have made that clear. It is people in Alyn and Deeside go to it. incredibly sad that we qualified for that third round and that nothing was done over that period to sort out the Stephen Crabb: The right hon. Gentleman makes an huge inequality that Wales has faced. important point, and it was exactly the one I was anticipating. He intervened at exactly the right point in Stephen Crabb: I agree with my hon. Friend. It has my speech where I was about to mention English votes been said before, but it is not an accolade for Wales to for English laws. I have made my personal views about achieve this status, and all politicians in Wales should this known. I strongly believe that Welsh MPs are not have a restless ambition that Wales should not qualify second-class. Our role here is as important as everyone for that kind of funding in future. else’s and we have a really important job to do. Wales does have a face here. Wales has a voice here, and we are Jonathan Edwards: The right hon. Gentleman is making it. It is the particular role of the Secretary of State for some very relevant points, but will he add one more Wales to be those things at the Cabinet table, but we consideration to his list? One of the great benefits of the have a job to help to strengthen his hand when he goes way the European system worked was the multi-annual there to represent Wales. All of us, in the different Select financial framework, with a five, six or seven-year Committees that we sit on, the different all-party programme. That will be difficult in the UK context, parliamentary groups that we belong to and the Question because we will not be able to bind the next Government, Times that we take part in, are a face and a voice for so we will be looking at five years at best, but it must be Wales. There is nothing second-class about our role for the maximum length of the Parliament, not determined here, and we should get stuck in as much as possible. every year in the Budget. 539 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 540

Stephen Crabb: That is an important point, but I do I well recall the then Deputy First Minister, Ieuan not share that sense of pessimism that we will not be Wyn Jones, describing the period to follow as able to achieve multi-year agreements for funding, regardless “the decade to deliver for Wales.” of changes in Government. Others in this place will have strong views, and they are Before bringing my remarks to a close, I will make perhaps better qualified than I am to decide whether two quick points. One is a local point for the Secretary that was in fact lived up to. Looking from afar, I of State as he is discussing Budget issues with colleagues remember the Government led by in government, regarding a small piece of rail infrastructure commendably being prepared to speak out on what he in Milford Haven, the largest town in my constituency. thought were the shortcomings of the UK Government—he Its railway station is merely a slab of concrete with a certainly put many of his Scottish colleagues to shame portakabin. We can do better than that, surely. I would in his willingness to do so—but the perspective is one of be grateful if he would take up that issue in discussions drift rather than delivery.Post Brexit, the UK Government with colleagues. Finally, given that a tradition seems to are in their pomp at the moment—I hope they do not have been established this afternoon of paying tribute think me unkind for saying that—about getting Brexit to strong Welsh women in sport, I will pay tribute to done and the need to level up. We will measure over Jasmine Joyce from my constituency, who this week was time how the rhetoric matches up with the reality, but selected again for the Great Britain rugby sevens squad. there is no doubt for me that considerable levelling up is required in Wales. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): I call Richard Thomson. HS2 has been mentioned by several Members. My constituency, in the north-east of Scotland, is forecast to lose out as a result of HS2 being constructed, as 2.21 pm parts of England become more competitive at our Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP): Thank you, Madam expense. I have to ask: where is the equivalent benefit Deputy Speaker, or diolch; it is a great pleasure to be for Wales out of this, other than the crumbs that will called to speak in the debate and to have the opportunity come from the table? I understand the argument about to wish everyone, on behalf of my group in this place, a being able to bid into the supply chain and that process, very happy St David’s Day when it comes. I also want to but where are the transformative projects to balance pass on my best wishes for the rugby on 14 March—not that out and do some of the levelling up? For example, too many, although I do not think Wales will need why will electrification of the Great Western line stop at much luck on that score. Cardiff, instead of going on to Swansea? What about My perspective in this debate is one of looking from the full electrification of the valleys lines? We all know afar, from the north-east of Scotland. If the House will we have a climate change crisis that we need to tackle, permit me, I want to share some personal recollections. and this is just one of a number of transformative One of the first major political campaigns I got involved projects that could benefit everyone in Wales and help in was the devolution referendum of 1997, campaigning to level up. for a yes-yes vote in Scotland. I well remember the In that vein, where is the investment in the A470? delight that my colleagues and I experienced that evening When we look at a map of Wales, it is clear that and the sense of the bright future that was beckoning, considerable priority has been placed on east-west links, whatever it held. The following week, there was the vote but where is the corresponding investment in north-south in Wales. I remember a considerably more youthful links? Where is the investment in digital connectivity? looking Huw Edwards—I am sure he would not mind Since the UK Government retain regulatory responsibility my saying that—anchoring the results programme. I for that, where are the coverage guarantees for 5G, so went to bed that night quite despondent at the way the that it does not just hit the main population centres, and result appeared to be panning out, then woke up to find the main lines of communication and, crucially, rural that the final result in Carmarthen had delivered a areas are able to enjoy the same level of connectivity as sufficient margin to ensure that it was a yes all round. their urban counterparts? It is clear that there is a need In Scotland, we had a significant task after that, for that sustained investment in physical and social because it was very difficult to live up to some of the infrastructure in order to deliver the sustainable growth unrealistic expectations that had built up around the that Wales needs and the productivity increases that will institution. To those of us watching from Edinburgh, it allow all parts of Wales and all the people of Wales to seemed in those early years that Wales was doing devolution reach their fullest potential. rather better than we were. Scotland’s First Minister at In hopefully drawing my remarks to a controlled and the time, Jack McConnell, had a much mocked ambition orderly stop, as I tap the dashboard I would like to of trying to do less, better. It often seemed to us—in make one further observation on politics in Wales. If we those early years, at least—that Wales was doing can measure the democratic health of a country by the considerably better with less than we were. state of its Opposition, Wales seems to be in a rather If we fast-forward to the referendum on legislative better condition at this point in time than Scotland. powers in 2011, the contrast between the result then and Several years and a few jobs ago, I had the great the result in 1997 was striking. The vote to transfer pleasure of working here as the head of research for the legislative powers was supported the length and breadth Scottish National party group, although it was a of Wales by a margin of two to one. That seemed to be considerably smaller group then. During that time, I not only a vote to transfer legislative powers but a vote had the great pleasure of seeing the former Member for of confidence in that institution—here was an institution Carmarthen East and Dinefwr, Adam Price, at work. I that was now firmly embedded in the democratic and have to say that I am also very impressed with the political landscape of Welsh life. current Member for that seat. 541 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 542

[Richard Thomson] made those first few days particularly special. I have to say that my general feeling of being overwhelmed and I well remember the contributions that Mr Price daunted was perhaps enhanced by all the Members on made in this Chamber and the way he used to light it up this side of the House who introduced themselves to me with his ideas, his eloquence and his clear passion to by telling me how much they liked and respected my make Wales a much better place. I am delighted that he predecessor. has made it back into active politics and to see him in his place in the Senedd. The people of Wales are incredibly Like those colleagues, I would also like to pay tribute fortunate to be in a position where they can choose him to my predecessor, Madeleine Moon, who was the to be their next First Minister; they would be incredibly Member for Bridgend for 14 and a half years, since well served if they did so. May 2005. Madeleine Moon first caught the attention of the national press during the tragic spate of suicides Finally, a point often made is that for all that Wales in Bridgend during 2007 and 2008. She spoke up eloquently now has the significant legislative powers that came in for the town in one of its darkest hours, and fought in 2011, it lacks some of the institutional architecture against the negative media narrative that was developing that might help to make sense of those laws and allow at the time. After these terrible events, she often spoke them to be used to their fullest extent, particularly when about mental health issues—and this is an area I hope we compare Wales with some of the institutions and the to pick up and continue—campaigning for increased institutional architecture in Scotland, which are able to awareness of mental health and related issues, and implement and monitor different policy choices. I urge additional support for all those who suffer such illnesses. people not to be frightened of or to feel inhibited by As well as service as a Parliamentary Private Secretary that, but rather to press ahead because self-government, in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, if it means anything, absolutely means not just having Madeleine Moon was a member of the UK delegation the opportunity but having the right and indeed the to NATO since 2010, and she was elected as President obligation to make the best choices they can for the of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in November communities that have elected them to sit in whichever 2018, for which colleagues on all sides of the House will democratic institution they are elected to. commend her and pay tribute to her. Looking from afar, as I say, it seems very clear that Wales is on something of a journey, and that journey The armed forces are incredibly important to the goes on in terms of resolving its relationship within the people of Bridgend. While out campaigning during the United Kingdom and looking outwards to the rest of last election, you could hardly get through a single the world. Whether or not the end point of that journey street without meeting a military family or a veteran, is full national status, it is pretty clear that the people of and when you spoke to them about their experiences Wales should be constrained only by the limits of their with the armed forces, it was clear early on just how own talents, the limits of their own resources, the limits emotive and important that part of their past is to of their own imagination—and by the limits of nobody them. These strong links with our armed forces go back else. many years. It was only in October of last year that we learned of the fate of HMS Urge, a world war two Several hon. Members rose— submarine that we now know was lost with all souls off the coast the Malta in April 1942. She was constructed Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): I am in 1940, partly using funds raised by the people of delighted to call Dr Jamie Wallis to make his maiden Bridgend town and was later adopted by the town, and speech. many of those serving on board had close ties to Bridgend or lived there. I am pleased that Bridgend 2.31 pm Town Council is sending a delegation to Malta in late Dr Jamie Wallis (Bridgend) (Con): Thank you very April to take part in a commemoration service, at which much, Madam Deputy Speaker, for calling me to make I hope to be present as well. my maiden speech in this House during the general debate on Welsh affairs. For me, it is a great honour to My constituents are a proud people, and proud of be the first Conservative MP elected for Bridgend during their communities. Every part of the constituency is my lifetime. This is especially so, given that for most of touched by strong community spirit, which is seen so my life I have lived in Bridgend, the wider borough of often in the hard work and dedication of so many Bridgend or within just a few miles of it. I grew up in community groups and volunteer-based organisations, the area, and while the constituency is called Bridgend, some of which I have had the pleasure of meeting in my it is so much more than just Bridgend town—such as first weeks as an MP. As well as fantastic national the beautiful seaside town of Porthcawl, where I went organisations, such as the YMCA—it is, unfortunately, to school and lived for many years. Therefore, this having to find new premises in Bridgend town now—and moment feels like a special privilege and honour for me the Bridgend Dogs Trust, Bridgend is full of small local to be standing here as the newly elected Member for a groups that give up their time to help make our communities place I care deeply about. even better. I am sure my colleagues will agree, especially those I have had the pleasure of visiting the Badgers Brook who are newly elected, that when we arrive for the first allotments in Brackla, a site which was previously derelict, time at the Palace of Westminster as an MP, it can be a but the hard work of a small group of community-minded particularly overwhelming experience. This was especially volunteers has been turned the area into a place for so in my case, as when I arrived in mid-December, it was everyone nearby—from children to pensioners—to learn my very first time here. I had not been here on a visit, a about growing their own food and taking pride in their school trip or anything. Experiencing the aura and community. Likewise, the Memory Lane Friendship magnificence of Parliament for the first time as an MP Group in Pyle is an entirely volunteer-run group that 543 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 544 meets weekly to give people suffering from dementia an Elvis festival, attended by up to 35,000 people. If Members opportunity to spend time and socialise with trained would like to attend the next festival, there will be no volunteers. These are just two examples of the huge risk of their being “lonesome tonight”. number of such groups in Bridgend that typify the As a newly elected Member for a constituency that strength of community spirit in my constituency. has had Conservative representation after only one Such pride and spirit is perhaps why so many people other election in its history, it is fitting that I close my speak out passionately about the state of Bridgend maiden speech by acknowledging the need to repay the town centre. Those that live in the older parts of Bridgend trust placed in me, particularly by those who voted for such as Oldcastle, Newcastle, Litchard, Cefn Glas and my party for the first time. This begins with listening. the more established housing estates of Brackla and My first priorities have centred around engaging with as Wildmill often recall when the town centre was vibrant, many people as possible, and I will continue to keep my active and full of life. With so many new developments promises to hold regular surgeries, to be present in the in Bridgend, such as estates in Parc Derwen in Coity constituency, and to meet as many residents as possible. and Broadlands near Bryntirion, bringing new homes, I look forward to engaging with our local schools, our new families and new residents to Bridgend, many are excellent Princess of Wales Hospital and its fantastic confused as to why the town seems to be suffering quite hard-working staff, as well as with businesses and our as it is. This once thriving market town has seen a community leaders, and I will ensure that I am fully decline that is more pronounced than many have observed equipped to represent their views in this House. As I elsewhere. While the centre is still home to wonderful said earlier, Bridgend is home to a proud people who do small businesses and has an array of offerings for not expect the earth, but they do expect an MP who is visitors, there can be no doubt about the level of concern on their side and fighting their corner, and that is at the number of empty premises, the decreasing footfall exactly the kind of MP I hope to be. and the overall state of the streets, especially at night. 2.40 pm I recently met occupants of the indoor market who, true to the spirit of Bridgend, have given up their time Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): I congratulate the to improve the market, and I enjoyed seeing all the hon. Member for Bridgend (Dr Wallis) on his excellent wonderful progress they have made in recent times. maiden speech. I am sure he will make many more However, it is clear that much more needs to be done. I worthwhile contributions in this House. As someone congratulate the Government on getting straight to who comes from a small village near Bridgend, I wish work on levelling up, with their £3.6 billion towns fund. him well, and I look forward to his future contributions Unfortunately,this fund applies only to towns in England, to the Elvis festival in Porthcawl. and I know that the people of Bridgend eagerly anticipate I wish to refer to the flooding that has afflicted a similar measures being taken for the towns of Wales by number of areas in my constituency over the past the Welsh Government. couple of weeks. In Bedwas, Machen, Llanbradach and Bargoed, homes and businesses—and in Bedwas a rugby While media reports that Bridgend is home to the club—have suffered flooding, in some cases quite severely. highest levels of rodent infestation in the UK might For many there is no insurance, and everyone who has perhaps explain why I feel so at home here in the Palace, suffered physical damage to their properties has also they typify why the proud people of Bridgend are so suffered emotional trauma. It is appalling when someone passionate about seeing immediate and substantial suffers the consequence of their home flooding with improvements to the state of the area. However, I can dirty water. Everywhere, the community has shown assure the House that this is not the only wildlife in the exemplary resilience and pulled together, with people constituency. Indeed, we are the proud home of the helping each other. In Bedwas, where I live, volunteers award-winning Kenfig nature reserve, one of the country’s have cleaned the local rugby club, and an amazing sum top sand dune reserves, with an array of beautiful wild of money has been collected. On Sunday night, I will fen orchids, which birds and unique species of insects attend a sell-out concert in Bedwas workmen’s hall, to depend on for their survival. I would like to take this collect money for local people who have been affected opportunity to thank the volunteers, who come not by the floods. I pay tribute to the workers of Caerphilly only from Kenfig and the surrounding communities of County Borough Council, who have worked tirelessly Pyle and Cornelly but from afar, to support and protect to help people and deal with situations that are the reserve, especially those that endured a difficult unprecedented in recent times. recent campaign to clarify the reserve’s future, following Tomorrow I will meet parliamentary colleagues, the end of the lease held by the local council. Assembly Members, and the leader of Caerphilly County Close to the nature reserve are some of the most Borough Council, Councillor Philippa Marsden. We wonderful beaches in the country—in Porthcawl, which will review the situation, and I am sure we will agree to I mentioned earlier. People come from far and wide to reinforce the representations already made for additional surf at Rest bay, where I often go to enjoy a bit of peace central Government funding for the areas hit by flooding. and quiet away from Westminster, but that is not always Those extra resources are required from London so that possible, as I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for the Welsh Government, and our local authorities, can Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) will agree. I often see continue to respond effectively to this unprecedented him there, with surfboard in tow, and I am grateful for situation. every encounter we have. Porthcawl offers even more I wish to raise a couple of other issues. We have heard than this, with the nearby Coney beach and its fairground about the proposal to build a third runway at Heathrow being enjoyed by people from all over the country. Even airport, and about the Court of Appeal ruling against being a tourist hotspot, however, one of the main those plans on the basis that the expansion would attractions that brings people to Porthcawl is the annual breach environmental legislation. Be that as it may, 545 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 546

[Wayne David] The multi-role vehicle protected programme will be a significant addition to the Army and to the country’s it does not alter the fact that Heathrow expansion, if very high readiness forces, and the troop-carrying vehicles correctly done with appropriate legislation, could bring and battlefield ambulances could well be built in Merthyr enormous benefit to the British economy, and especially Tydfil. A procurement process is under way at the to the economy of .I hope that the Government Ministry of Defence, but I urge the Government to will get their act together and come forward with make real the principles and arguments advanced so appropriate legislation that protects the environment, articulately by the right hon. Member for Ludlow (Philip so that the expansion can go ahead and bring economic Dunne) in the Dunne report. benefits to the country, including in Wales. We must recognise that defence contracts are not The independent Airports Commission has concluded simply a matter for the Ministry of Defence to consider that an expanded Heathrow will mean an extra 8,400 jobs in isolation. If we are serious about developing a sovereign in Wales, and up to £8 billion more in economic growth. capability, and I believe all of us should be, defence The economy of Wales is largely based on exports, contracts must take into account the social and economic 60% of which go to the European Union. With an expanded contribution they can make to the country as a whole and enhanced western rail link to Heathrow, expansion and to hard-pressed regions like the south Wales valleys. of that airport will bring tremendous economic benefits That is the essential message of the Dunne report. I to Wales. It will mean more visitors to Wales, more hope the Government will make it real, beginning by destinations that Welsh tourists can reach, and, crucially, ensuring that General Dynamics secures that contract more opportunity for Welsh businesses to get to those in Merthyr Tydfil. all-important new markets. That is why the Welsh These are not easy times in Wales, but it is very clear Government are firmly in support of the new runway, that Wales today is a nation with very special values. I and I desperately hope that the Government manage to end as I started: by saying that the response of people to get their act together. the floods shows that the nation of Wales is essentially a community of people with strong co-operative and I also wish to mention the growing importance of collective values. Long may that continue. UK defence contracts to the Welsh economy. In the last financial year alone, the Ministry of Defence spent more than £1 billion with industry in Wales, directly 2.50 pm supporting more than 7,500 jobs. That is welcome, but Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con): It was the greatest we need much more of that. Last autumn, I went to the honour of my life to be elected MP for Clwyd South. I Defence and Security Equipment International exhibition pay tribute to my predecessor, Susan Elan Jones. Susan in London’s Docklands, which is the largest exhibition served Clwyd South with distinction for almost 10 years of its kind anywhere in the world. I was especially as our MP, and I have always much admired her strong pleased to see an excellent stand from Wales, organised sense of integrity, kindness and concern for others. It is by the Welsh Government. These things give huge fair to say that Susan and I can take comfort from the opportunities to small and medium-sized businesses fact that we have at different times achieved a result in from Wales, which are increasingly benefiting from Clwyd South that eluded my right hon. Friend the defence contracts. Those contracts also have a huge Prime Minister, who famously said about his experiences knock-on effect on the supply chains in Wales. in the 1997 general election: I was especially pleased to see a company from my “I fought Clwyd South and Clwyd South fought back.” constituency represented on that stand in the defence That said, there is no doubt in my mind that I would not exhibition. Drone Evolution from Caerphilly is a small be standing here but for the inspired leadership of the company that recognises that there are opportunities in Prime Minister in the general election campaign. the defence sector, as well as in the civilian sector—it is The past two months have been eventful for me, to important to recognise that these days, those two things say the least—settling into Parliament, and attending go very much together. I am also pleased about the events and holding surgeries in Clwyd South, combined investment by Thales in Blaenau Gwent. In 2009 Thales— with the unexpected death of my mother on 7 January. again, with the support of the extremely proactive After a fall on new year’s day at her home in the north Welsh Government—launched its National Digital of Powys, where I grew up, my mother was diagnosed Exploitation Centre. That is in the heads of the valleys, with advanced lung cancer and died six days later. She where it is especially welcome. As we know, the heads of was fortunate in going quickly and with little pain at the the valleys in south Wales continue to suffer economic fine age of 87, but it was nevertheless a shock for all of and social deprivation, and a lot more sustained work is us in the family. Of course, this is an experience shared needed to ensure that those communities are rehabilitated with many others in Clwyd South, and the days that I and given the dynamic future they deserve. spent in hospital with her only increased my respect for I was also pleased at the significant investment by the ability of the NHS to contend with sudden medical General Dynamics in Merthyr Tydfil—an area not crises, and for the kindness of the staff who looked after dissimilar from Blaenau Gwent; it is just along the her. heads of the valleys from it, and it has seen far better Over the past two months, Clwyd South has seen times. The decision by General Dynamics to assemble more than its fair share of exceptional events; there was and test the Army’s new Ajax vehicles in Merthyr has the fire at the Kronospan factory in Chirk, and the effects been extremely successful, and a huge fillip to the Welsh of Storms Ciara and Dennis. I have tried to make economy. Before long, however, that contract will come myself available to the people affected by these events. to an end, and it is important for the community and For instance, after the fire, I held an eight-hour surgery the workforce that a significant new contract be secured. in Chirk to listen to people’s concerns. On 14 February, 547 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 548 in the company of local county councillors, I visited some But above all, Clwyd South is special for the warmth, of the areas worst hit by the storms, such as Bangor-on-Dee good humour and kindness of its close-knit communities. and the Ceiriog valley. There are lessons to be learned A key part of health and wellbeing is the NHS, which from these events, and over the coming weeks I will could be run better in Wales, but that is the subject of continue to work hard with key stakeholders, across another speech. Strong communities are also a vital political parties, to make sure that real and substantial part of ensuring that people are happy and feel supported. improvements are made to lessen problems in the future. This has been a particular interest of mine through the charity, Concertina—Music for the Elderly, which I set There is so much to celebrate in the businesses, up with my wife Maggie over 20 years ago to provide organisations, sports teams, volunteers and communities live music for older people in care homes and day of Clwyd South. As an MP, my job is to listen to centres across Wales and England. Music is often the people’s problems and to do my best to resolve them, only mode of communication that can penetrate deep but it is also to support and promote people’s successes. dementia and Alzheimer’s, and these concerts bring I attended my first event in the constituency on the day people together and combat loneliness, which is one of I was elected, 13 December. I visited the Esclusham the aspects of modern life that we must work much senior citizens Christmas party by kind invitation of harder to alleviate. local county councillor Mark Pritchard, who is also leader of Wrexham Council. Since then, I have enjoyed St David’s Day is a time of celebration of all that is events across the constituency, including a visit to the unique and inspiring about Wales. Clwyd South represents Llangollen steam railway’s Corwen extension project the very best of these qualities, and I look forward to and the Overton playcentre. In Parliament, I am now a serving my constituents to the very best of my ability in member of the Welsh Affairs Committee, and I attend the coming years. events relating to Clwyd South, such as the recent Macmillan Cancer Support event and the meeting yesterday 2.58 pm with North Wales Tourism, which features the Llangollen Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): I extend my canal, a UNESCO world heritage site, in its marketing congratulations and condolences to the hon. Member material. for Clwyd South (Simon Baynes): I congratulate him on Clwyd South has a proud industrial and mining his excellent maiden speech but offer my condolences, heritage, seen not only in the Llangollen canal and its and I am sure those of every Opposition Member, on magnificent aqueducts, but in projects such as the Brymbo the loss of his mother. I am sure that his mother would heritage centre, which is raising funds to create a visitor have been immensely proud of him not only for being attraction to celebrate the buildings, machinery,landscape, elected to the House, but for the speech he has just industry and people of the former Brymbo steelworks. made. He is just starting out on his parliamentary This remarkable heritage lives on in the large number of career—he is almost exactly the same age as I am; in businesses that thrive in Clwyd South today, from larger other words, just about reaching his prime in life. I take companies such as Ifor Williams Trailers in Corwen and this opportunity to declare that I think I am now the Village Bakery, based in Coedpoeth, to smaller officially the longest-serving Welsh MP from any party in companies in the Vauxhall industrial estate between this House. I think I signed in before my hon. Friend Johnstown and Ruabon, where my constituency office the Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) in 2001, and is located. Wales, of course, was the powerhouse of the I am therefore claiming the title Tad y Tyˆ—“Father industrial revolution and is now a country with cutting-edge of the House” in Welsh—at least for this gathering innovation, inventive entrepreneurs, and an increasingly today. successful record of selling itself and its products abroad. I also congratulate the hon. Gentleman on the charity that he set up, Concertina, and I very much agree with Tourism is also a major industry in Clwyd South—an what he said about the power of music and its impact industry I grew up in. My father ran Lake Vyrnwy on older people. Having volunteered for a charity in a hotel, not far away in the very north of Powys. We boast care home to play music to older people, I look forward a wide range of hotels and bed and breakfasts, from to talking to him more about the work that he has been which visitors can explore our beautiful countryside undertaking. I also thank him for paying tribute, quite and heritage, including two of the most visited National properly, to his predecessor, Susan Elan Jones, who Trust properties in Wales, Chirk Castle and Erddig really was the best of us as a Member of Parliament, Hall. They can take part in the many cultural activities from any party, and who was a great champion in this in the constituency, particularly those celebrating the place for Wales and particularly for the Welsh language. Welsh language, which is widely spoken across Clwyd South and taught in our thriving schools. The Llangollen It is a great pleasure to speak in today’s debate from international musical eisteddfod, of which I used to be the Back Benches, having served almost continuously a trustee, draws many visitors, as do the concerts given for 15 years on the Front Benches, both in government by the Rhos, Fron and other local male voice choirs. and in opposition. It is quite a relief to have the freedom to roam and talk about anything I want. Today, I want We need to provide strong support to our farmers, to talk about the future of public service broadcasting who care for the countryside, which people flock to in Wales, in particular BBC Cymru Wales, ITV Wales visit, from the upland farms in the west to the lowland and Sianel Pedwar Cymru—S4C—not least in the light farms in the east, in the Maelor, on the border with of the publication this morning by Ofcom of its five-year Cheshire and Shropshire. As we know, farmers work review of public service broadcasting, “Small Screen: long hours and have major problems such as bovine TB Big Debate”. The key finding in the report is that public to contend with. We must ensure that they can make a service broadcasting remains extremely important and decent livelihood if we are to protect our environment relevant to the UK as whole, but I think that is especially and wildlife and combat global warming. true for us in Wales. 549 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 550

[Kevin Brennan] Quite rightly, there is a debate at Welsh and UK level about the role that public service broadcasting can play On St David’s Day 1967, BBC Wales opened in a new world in which we consume our media from a Broadcasting House in Llandaff in my constituency. variety of different sources. The founders of the BBC in After 53 years, it recently moved to a brand-new,high-tech, the 1920s could not have imagined a world in which modern headquarters just over the River Taff in the city people could pick up a mobile phone and watch whatever centre. It remains a major employer for my constituents content they cared to choose—as the old Martini ad and residents of many other constituencies across Wales. used to say, “any time, any place, anywhere”. The Of more than 1,000 employees, many live in Cardiff underlying question for this new world, however, is West. BBC Cymru Wales is a key community partner in “Does the concept of public service broadcasting still my constituency for the new state-of-the-art Cardiff have relevance?”, and I would argue that, more than West Community High School, which the Labour ever, it does. In this information free-for-all, the original council recently built with funding assistance from the founding values of the BBC resonate more loudly than Welsh Government. That partnership provides exciting ever. In an era of fake news, when conspiracy theorists opportunities for students from the communities of Ely thrive and journalistic integrity is routinely questioned and Caerau who badly need them. Indeed, Caerau and undermined by, I have to say, all sides in the boy and top BBC talent Jason Mohammad was at the political debate, the BBC’s mission to “inform, educate opening of the school, which was built on the site of and entertain” has never been more important. the school he attended, to promote its partnership with the BBC. Some ask why public service broadcasters need to entertain when entertainment can be supplied by the I say all that to remind the House that public service market. There are times, I agree, when those broadcasters broadcasting in the form of BBC Cymru Wales, ITV can be legitimately criticised for straying too far in the Wales and S4C, and the many producers and other direction of content of questionable public value, but ancillary services it supports, plays a huge role in Welsh we have to realise that in a world of high-tech global culture, Welsh society and the Welsh economy. That corporations hoovering up data and monopolising gateways includes Welsh language television and radio programming, to content, our cultural sovereignty will suffer without which plays a key part in promoting and building the the public service broadcasting framework. It would be language and will make a vital contribution to achieving ironic if, having supposedly voted to take back control, the Welsh Government’s aspiration of having 1 million we handed over the remote control from Cardiff West Welsh speakers by 2050. Part of the licence fee now or Westminster to the west wing of the White House funds the Welsh language channel S4C, so proposals to and big tech’s west coast of America. scrap or even, as I understand someone from No. 10 said, to “whack”the licence fee without properly examining Wetherefore need new,flexible regulations to guarantee the consequences threaten the culturally and socially continuing prominence for public service content, even vital programming that is so important to Wales as a when the gateway to that content is through a set-top nation. A purely profit-drive subscription system would box, a smart TV or a smart speaker. In a world in which destroy public service broadcasting, in particular S4C. Amazon determines what is on the home page of a The Prime Minister likes to make a big point about deliberately discounted loss-leader television monitor, his undying love for the Union, but it is strange how there is a danger that public service content will be cavalier his Government are about Wales’s presence and locked in a dark cupboard with no key easily available. influence within the Union. There seems to be a complete S4C already suffers from that on the electronic programme lack of understanding of the importance of the licence guide, having been relegated to channel 166 on Virgin fee, the BBC charter and public service broadcasting Media and multiple clicks away from the home page of more generally to Wales’ place as one of the four a Sky+ box. constituent nations of the United Kingdom. The BBC, It should be obvious that we need to ensure that ITV Wales and S4C are major Welsh employers, both trusted, curated information is available to young people indirectly and directly. They have brought many in particular, and that they can distinguish between fact programmes we are all familiar with—“Doctor Who”, and fake, between informed opinion and hateful prejudice. “Pobol y Cwm”, “Casualty”, “Torchwood”, “Life on What future is there for democracy without an informed Mars”, “Sherlock”, “Hinterland”, “Keeping Faith” and next generation in Wales and beyond with the skills to “Gavin and Stacey”—to UK-wide and indeed global navigate the deluge of information in the digital era? audiences. Today, the Ofcom report shows that public Public service broadcasting and streaming, through content service broadcasting production in Wales has risen threefold such as BBC Bitesize, “Newsround” and “My World”, since 2010. It is still only 3% of the total, so there is can help to thwart the penetration of untrustworthy room for further growth, but it is hugely important in news sources to younger generations. our economy and a growing sector. BBC Wales and S4C play huge roles in promoting In fact, Ofcom is currently consulting on changes Welsh music, employing musicians and composers not proposed by the BBC to reinvent the service that just through things like the BBC National Orchestra of “Newsround” provides for young people by replacing Wales, but through Welsh language music on Radio its evening bulletin with more online content, which Cymru and S4C. I say to some colleagues on the already has nearly 1 million users a week compared Government Benches, who seem to be playing with the with the 35,000 six-to-12 year-olds who currently watch concept, that they should resist the temptation to pull at the televised 4 pm bulletin. The fact that younger people the loose threads of a carefully woven shawl that has watch less linear television does not mean that they will been bequeathed to us, just because it looks slightly not consume public service content, provided that it is frayed at the edges. They risk unravelling something made available to them in places where they look for precious that can never be recreated. their content. 551 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 552

I was going to say something about sports rights and, and nurture it. We should ensure that it is not locked in particular, the need for the Six Nations to be put on away in that dark cupboard where it is difficult to find. the category A list, but I do not want to detain the We should ensure that it has a sustainable source of House for too long, so I will just say a bit more about funding—either through advertising, in the case of some the licence fee. The Government have launched a public public service broadcasters, or through the licence fee consultation on the so-called decriminalisation of non- for others—that allows it to remain independent of payment. That proposal was not in the Conservative Government. We should acknowledge its relevance in a party’s manifesto. It has been launched within a few world of fake news, and for Wales we should fight to years of a previous review which provided clear evidence protect, preserve and enhance it so that it can continue that decriminalisation would not help those in Wales to play a positive role in the language, culture, life and struggling with their bills, would draw more people into economy of our nation. the courts, and would undermine the funding of the BBC. That review, the Perry review, clearly concluded that 3.12 pm the current system was the fairest, and that any move Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con): May I say what towards decriminalisation of non-payment of the fee a great pleasure it was to hear the maiden speech of my would undermine the BBC’s ability to enforce the licence hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Dr Wallis)? It and would not remove the risk of imprisonment. In any was also a particular pleasure to be here to listen to the case, imprisonment is not an available punishment for maiden speech of my constituency neighbour, my hon. non-payment of the licence fee; it is a penalty available Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Simon Baynes). to the courts for wilful refusal or culpable neglect on the The place names that he reeled off when he paid tribute part of the offender to pay any court-ordered fines. to his fine constituency were something of a gazetteer Often, those who are caught for non-payment are fined of my childhood. I am particularly delighted that he has the value of the fee itself and no criminal case is put his constituency base in Ruabon. As an old boy of brought. When cases are brought, the only directly Ruabon Grammar School, I can tell him that there is no available penalty is a maximum fine of £1,000 and no finer location for his constituency headquarters. Both criminal record, with actual fines served averaging £176. of my hon. Friends are going to be great Members of Furthermore, the Perry review outlined that the current Parliament and a great asset to this House. regime serves as an effective deterrent, maintaining the May I also say how pleased I am that the Government offending rate at a very low 5%. One has to question the have made time for this traditional St David’s Day Government’s motives in reopening this issue now, in debate? This is an important event, if only for giving me the light of that very recent evidence. If they really want the opportunity to wear my favourite tie, which has an to ease the burden of the licence fee on any group of annual outing on this occasion. It is important, too, people, why do they not reinstate free television licences because it is essential that Welsh affairs should be for those over 75 rather than passing the buck on to an debated in this Chamber, even in the post-devolution already underfunded BBC with no means of sustaining era. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is even it, and simultaneously undermining BBC finances through more important now, because, as my right hon. Friend this bogus consultation? the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) This is all part of an agenda by some to undermine, said, it is frequently hard to differentiate areas of to cut and eventually to privatise large swaths of the government in Wales which are devolved and those BBC, including BBC Cymru Wales. It is also a direct which are not. The people of Wales frequently have threat to employment in Wales, particularly in my great difficulty in understanding who is responsible for constituency of Cardiff West. As this proposal is not a which element of public policy. manifesto pledge, the House of Lords would have every right to reject it if, as expected, the Government decide Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): I totally agree to ram it through for ideological reasons using their with the right hon. Gentleman. In recent weeks, I have Commons majority. If ever there was an instance in twice asked questions of the Government about non- which the Salisbury convention would apply, this is it. devolved matters and have been told that they are in The method of enforcing licence fee collection should fact devolved, but the Government have been wrong. I not be changed before the next charter renewal in 2027. would therefore welcome any education on devolution Labour and the Conservatives, and the other parties, that we can give to Members on both sides of the can set out in their manifestos for the next election— House, as well as to the wider world. probably in 2024—where they stand on this issue. Mr Jones: That is an excellent illustration of the Public service broadcasting through BBC Cymru Wales, problem. I am sure that many Members were berated ITV Wales and S4C plays a huge part in the lives of our frequently during the recent general election campaign constituents. They are major employers and cultural about the poor quality of health services in their part of leaders, and they produce trusted quality television, the world, and had to tell people that that is the radio and online content. Back in 1964, Wales got its responsibility not of the Westminster Government, but very own TV service. It was our service and our of the Welsh Assembly Government. The hon. Lady is programming, reflective of our talent and our culture, quite right to raise that issue. with content made in Wales by Wales, for Wales and Wales is changing. Nowhere are the changes more beyond and recognised worldwide. In fact, the Union is apparent than in north Wales, and the poll of 12 December stronger for our role in providing some of the UK’s is proof of that. Of the nine seats in north Wales, seven leading TV, film, radio and online exports. are now represented by Conservative Members of Public service broadcasting might need to be renamed Parliament. Former mining constituencies such as Wrexham in the age of digital streaming, perhaps as “public and Clwyd South, where I was brought up, now have service media”, but whatever we call it, we should value Conservative representation in this place. That is a 553 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 554

[Mr David Jones] The commitment acknowledges that road infrastructure is the devolved competence of the Welsh Government. remarkable state of affairs and something that I would However, it is a remarkably generous statement of intent not have believed as a boy growing up in the village of to assist the Welsh Government in upgrading that road, Rhosllanerchrugog. The desire for change was apparent and I cannot stress too strongly how much we need that at the 2016 referendum and was repeated at the general road upgrade in north Wales. election two months ago. A challenge has been laid North Wales voters will want to see positive action down to the Conservative Government to deliver the with a view to early delivery, which is a challenge not change that people are looking for and, most importantly, only to this Government but to the Welsh Assembly it is a challenge to deliver the economic change that the Government. I would be grateful if my hon. Friend the people of north Wales seek. Key to delivering that Minister touched on that in his winding-up speech and change is the improvement of infrastructure throughout indicated what progress has been made so far on agreeing north Wales. a plan of action with the Welsh Government for the Broadband is an important element of that infrastructure, upgrade of the A55. as the hon. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson) The third piece of infrastructure in urgent need of pointed out in his contribution. Much work has already attention is the north Wales rail system. High Speed 2 is been done, and superfast broadband is indeed present very popular and very welcome in north Wales and, in north Wales and enjoyed by a large section of the contrary to the assertions of some Opposition Members, business community and some householders. However, it will benefit north Wales by cutting journey times between it is barely there at all in some parts of north Wales. London and north Wales. At the moment, the journey Take the village of Pandy Tudur in my constituency. I from London Euston to Colwyn Bay, for example, is had a complaint from a resident only a couple of weeks some two hours and 40 minutes. That will be reduced by ago that she was unable to get broadband speeds of about 30 minutes as a consequence of HS2 and the new more than 800 kilobits per second. That is completely hub that will be constructed at Crewe, so there is a benefit. inadequate for business purposes or leisure purposes and barely adequate to send an email. However,HS2, which as I say is tremendously welcome, should not blind us to the need to improve regional Pandy Tudur is certainly a remote village. It is about connectivity.Journey times from north Wales to the great 12 miles from the nearest town of Abergele, but it is not cities of Liverpool and Manchester are extremely poor, so remote as, for example, Pitcairn Island. I mention and particularly poor are the journey times to Manchester Pitcairn because I happened to watch a TV documentary airport, which is the principal air hub for the north-west about it a few weeks ago. Pitcairn is 3,400 miles away of England and north Wales. It takes two hours and from the nearest significant land mass of New Zealand, 20 minutes to travel from Colwyn Bay to Manchester and yet its residents enjoy speeds of 5 megabits per airport. The journey time by car is approximately half second, which is enough to enjoy streaming video, so that: one hour and 10 minutes. they enjoy a luxury presently denied to my constituents in the village of Pandy Tudur. Of course, I realise there is a problem in that there is The north Wales growth deal, which is an extremely no access to the airport from the west, but there is also a important initiative of the Government and the Welsh huge problem in the poor quality of the rolling stock. The Assembly Government, has digital infrastructure as a north Wales line has been operated by major plank of its policy and is rolling out faster speeds for the past two or three months, and it uses obsolete across north Wales. The 2019 Conservative general rolling stock that is well past its sell-by date. There is no election manifesto undertook to bring full-fibre and reason at all why the people of north Wales should be gigabit-capable broadband to every home and business expected to put up with such rolling stock. Again, although across the whole of Wales by 2025. That, of course, is this is a devolved competence of the Welsh Assembly, I highly welcome, but those promises will be judged by urge my hon. Friend to confirm that pressure is being what happens on the ground. In the case of the residents put on it to upgrade the rolling stock so that the people of Pandy Tudur,who are looking with envy at the residents of north Wales can see the improvements that are of Pitcairn Island, that cannot come fast enough. already being seen in the Cardiff and south Wales area. The next piece of north Wales infrastructure that Finally, before my voice completely gives out, I would needs attention is the A55 expressway. The A55 is a vital like to refer to a piece of infrastructure that I mentioned arterial road that links north Wales to the great cities of in my intervention on my right hon. Friend the Secretary Liverpool and Manchester and to the main motorway of State: the north Wales tidal lagoon. It will be a network. It was first developed about 30 years ago, but tremendously important piece of infrastructure, if the it is already creaking. The area around the Dee crossing, Westminster Government will support it. It would have as my hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Rob Roberts) the capacity to generate some 2.6 GW, which is twice as will attest, is particularly in need of urgent attention. much as a nuclear power station. It would generate that Some 10 years ago the Welsh Assembly Government completely cleanly and predictably, as nothing is more promised an upgrade of the area around Aston Hill, predictable than the tide. I appreciate that we had an which was never carried out. The area remains a significant unfortunate experience with the Swansea lagoon proposal, bottleneck for travellers along the A55 in both directions, which was much smaller, but there is great backing in particularly at holiday times. north Wales, from not only its people, but my hon. Friends I was therefore delighted to see the commitment in the Members for Aberconwy (Robin Millar) and for the Conservative manifesto: Vale of Clwyd (Dr Davies) and myself, for seeing this “we will, working with the Welsh Government, upgrade the proposal progressed. May I therefore urge the Wales Office A55 as the main…transport artery for North Wales—improving to facilitate a meeting between the proposed developer, its capacity and resilience to build connections between Wales the Members of Parliament for the relevant area and and the rest of the United Kingdom.” the Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth to 555 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 556 see whether this project can be moved forward? Let me Even as things currently stand, despite 20 years of repeat, in conclusion, that north Wales is changing and devolution there are those who seek to mock, denigrate its people will embrace that change. They want that and deny the people of Wales the institutions and the change,and I believe that this transformational Government powers that normal countries take for granted. There is can deliver it. clearly a failure on the part of the current Welsh Government, whose Ministers have failed so spectacularly 3.26 pm to capture the hearts and minds of the people with Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): Diolch whose Parliament they have been entrusted for 20 years. yn fawr, Madam Dirprwy Lefarydd. It is an honour to They are a Government marked by a lack of ambition, follow the right hon. Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones), by managerialism and by a reluctance to face scrutiny—all and I join him on many of the issues he has raised about tragically evidenced by a decline in education standards infrastructure and the potential for a tidal lagoon in and a failing health service. Welsh Labour were given north Wales. I am sure he would join me in asking the the tools to build a nation; it has kept those tools in the Department and the Ministers to consider the funding toolbox. required and the potential for an innovation power The recent floods raise questions about the performance purchase agreement in relation to funding tidal lagoons, of both the Welsh and British Governments. There as was presented to the Minister for Business, Energy has been chronic under-investment in flood-defence and Clean Growth yesterday. infrastructure and a shameful lack of response. The Prime Of course, I should say: Hoffwn gymryd y cyfle hwn i Minister failed to call a Cobra meeting in response to ddymuno Dydd Gwˆyl Ddewi hapus iawn i chi i gyd. I am the floods. The Welsh Government do not even have a sure all Members will realise from the context that I Cobra-style national emergency response system. Our was, entirely appropriately, wishing everybody a happy First Minister deemed it “too dangerous” to send in the St David’s Day in Welsh. For Welsh people and those of Army to flood-stricken areas, despite their being called Welsh descent all over the world, no matter where we in to help in Yorkshire three times in seven months. It is happen to be St David’s Day is a chance to come 30 years to the week since the Towyn floods in north together to celebrate what it means to bear the mantle Wales, and the message that only preparation can prevent of being Welsh, whether by birth, luck or design. Many an emergency from turning into a disaster remains hon. Members will have taken part in excellent events unlearned in those 30 years. this week to celebrate St David’s Day as part of Wales The UK Government are already acting to claw back Week London. The best in Welsh music, art, food, powers to Whitehall. Take, for example, the UK shared tourism and heritage is proudly on display here in this prosperity fund. During the election campaign, the city for Cymry tramor—the diaspora of Wales—in Prime Minister said that there should be a strong London to enjoy. This is an opportunity to showcase Conservative influence over how money that replaces what we have to offer to the world. This year, for the EU structural funds is spent in Wales, despite the Welsh first time, Wales Weeks are occurring in 21 places Government having controlled that EU funding over around the world, including New York, Ohio, Paris and the past two decades. The Secretary of State said earlier Melbourne. that shared prosperity investments have to be meaningful Of course, this is the first St David’s Day since our and not vanity indulgences. Let us recall Boris’s bridges: departure from the European Union, which makes flying the garden bridge in London and the bridge to Northern the flag for Wales the world over more important than Ireland. To put this in context: investment in Wales ever. Leaving the EU demands a discussion about what must be decided in Wales. I put it to the Government the future holds for Wales; and with our position in the that not only is the precedent intolerable, but they are world being redefined around us, we owe it to the people setting down a short-termism precedent that may return of Wales to set out a positive vision for the future. In the in future. Investments for Wales should be made and last few years, the political tectonic plates have shifted decided in Wales. dramatically across these islands; in Ireland and in Scotland, we have seen a radical realignment of identity Of course, an England and Wales entity already and politics. People are no longer willing to accept the exists across key policy areas: despite 21 years of devolution, old notion that the Celtic fringes are a colourful, cultural our national Parliament has no powers over policing indulgence, humoured at best and otherwise tolerated, and justice and we still lack a legal jurisdiction—the with the meaningful powers—I say that with an element only nation in the UK to do so. I therefore wish to of sarcasm—shored up where they have always been, in explore how treating Wales as an appendage of England south-east England. With both Irish reunification and in this respect is bad for the people of Wales, because Scottish independence now discussed more widely and that is exactly how we should look at and evaluate it. in more forums than ever before, it is important for us, The issue is particularly timely because we have the Welsh politicians of all colours, to be under no illusion upcoming police and crime commissioner elections in about what the future holds for Wales. In the event of May, when the two excellent Plaid Cymru PCCs, Arfon the reunification of Ireland and an independent Jones and Dafydd Llywelyn, will be seeking re-election. Scotland, the default setting will be the emergence of an Let us look at some specific problems in Wales in England and Wales entity that would surely be the most relation to policing and justice—problems to which the imbalanced, inequitable so-called Union in the world: solutions are out of the hands of the people of Wales one nation would comprise 56 million people, the other until the powers are devolved. Since the creation of the 3 million. One would have its devolved Parliament, system of PCCs, we have seen the Home Office and which would inevitably feel the strain without a wider the Ministry of Justice hiving over more and more context of devolution across the state, as the hon. responsibilities to commissioners to carry out new functions. Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson) mentioned But—this is the important point—rather than seeing a powerfully earlier. corresponding level of additional funding, we have for 557 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 558

[Liz Saville Roberts] already have, because that is part of being ambitious. This includes the establishment of an economic crime 10 years seen an abdication of duty on the part of the unit for north Wales, dedicated to investigating fraud UK Government to fund the police service. It is all very against the most vulnerable, and protecting those who well to talk about additional thousands of police officers are being increasingly exploited by fraud. That would now, but we are talking about 10 years of underfunding include things such as implementing the victims’ code and what politicians with the interests of the people of of practice and implementing changes to systems to Wales in mind have had to do in Wales to provide some provide a seamless service and support, so as to give remedy. victims increased confidence in coming forward with The PCCs have been forced to rely on raising the evidence. Wewill have a focus on reducing reoffending—by local tax precept. The precept for the four Welsh forces mainstreaming Checkpoint Cymru and the Early Action as a proportion of the overall funding increased from Together team, which relates to adverse childhood 32% in 2008-09 to 47% in 2019-20. They did that for experiences, in the work of North Wales Police. We will good reason: to keep the police on the streets and to also pledge, across Wales, to increase the capacity of keep the public safe. This increase in police precepts our rural crime team to address rural criminality and meant that Welsh police funding was £34 million greater wildlife crime, which is something that I am sure every in 2018 than it would have been had it risen in line with Member here would agree should be a priority in Wales. that of England. We have had to find the means to do it No matter what one’s position is on devolution, it is ourselves without the sufficient powers to do so, but we clear that designing policy on an England and Wales basis have done it anyway. That is a message for all of us. does not work at the moment. There is a chance that, None the less, this is clearly an unfair funding system, in future, more policies will be designed without Wales’s demanding a stark choice between increasing the precept specific needs taken into account—that irresistible urge and cutting services, neither of which would need to be to centralise powers here in Westminster. done if the Home Office addressed the issues with a We often hear about Brexit being a chance to bring comprehensive and equitable funding formula. power closer to the people, but I do fear, whatever the The prison system in Wales is also let down by the Conservatives say, that the reality will be the exact current framework. Research carried out by Dr Robert opposite. None the less, let us look to the future. This is Jones of ’s Welsh governance centre Saint David’s Day. Let us look to our future and our found that in 2017 Wales had the highest prison population role—all of us—in growing a stronger, more confident, rate in western Europe, with 154 prisoners per 100,000 more wealthy, more equitable Wales. That is what we population. That is equivalent to one in every 650 people, can do here until we get the powers back home to do it and this is despite the fact that recorded crime in Wales properly. Diolch yn fawr iawn. was lower than in England in every year between 2013 and 2017. I wonder whether this is something to do with Several hon. Members rose— the fact that we have had to put our money where our mouth is in Wales. We have had to do that, and it has Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. We had an effect. should be able to get everybody in if Members keep Women are more likely to receive an immediate custodial their contributions to just under seven minutes. I would sentence than men. That is despite the fact that there prefer Members to do that voluntarily, if possible. are no women’s facilities in Wales. In 2016, 623 women were sentenced to immediate custody, 86 of whom were 3.39 pm convicted for non-violent offences. They were sent to Craig Williams (Montgomeryshire) (Con): I will be facilities in England, far away from their families—and mindful of that time limit, Mr Deputy Speaker. we know the effect that that has on the children—when It is a great privilege to follow the right hon. Member a more rehabilitative programme based in their communities for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts), my would have been better for everyone. Wales was promised constituency neighbour. I agree with much of what she a residential unit for female offenders back in 2018, but said, although we often disagree on how to deliver what we have yet to see it even in 2020. we want. I pay tribute to the two Members who made Imprisonment rates among black, Asian and minority their maiden speeches this afternoon. It was a privilege ethnic communities are even more disproportionate to listen to my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd relative to population in Wales than in England. For South (Simon Baynes), my constituency neighbour, and every 10,000 white people in Wales, 14 are in prison. For my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Dr Wallis). every 10,000 black people in Wales, 91 are in prison. It is truly delightful to have a flock, a team, a gang of Further to that, BAME people have the highest average Conservative Members from across Wales. We also sentence length. Therefore, a person of colour in Wales heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd is both more likely to be imprisoned and to receive a West (Mr Jones)—it is a delight to see that tie come out longer sentence. at this time of year. I agree with much of what he said Prisons are perhaps the clearest example of how an about the feeling of change in north, mid, south and England and Wales approach simply does not work. We west Wales. I will touch on that later. need to build a system that fits our purpose and is At the start of the week, the right hon. Member for suitable for the people of Wales. Devolving policing and Dwyfor Meirionnydd and I were on the Wales Week justice for Wales must now be a priority if we are to do London podcast. Much of the debate focused on what better for the people of Wales, and we will, of course, be is great about Wales, but specifically what is great when arguing for that strongly. At the same time, we will also people work together—Members of Parliament, Assembly be arguing about the specific ways that we can improve Members, those in local authorities and those in the the lives of the people of Wales with the powers that we private sector. I pay particular tribute to Dan Langford 559 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 560

OBE for his work pulling together the Welsh Government, hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham the UK Government and the private sector to put () onwards, do not want us to send Wales on the map this week, in London and across the any more water their way, but they certainly value the world. Wales Week now lasts for two weeks, and next businesses and expertise—in public and private life—that year it will possibly be three. That growing passion go back and forth over the border. for Wales is really taking flight. The more we can work I turn to the Montgomeryshire canal. I should actually together, the better—the private sector is captaining say the Montgomery canal; I will receive countless that movement—but it is something we have struggled letters and emails for having called it the Montgomeryshire to do in Wales; it would really be cause for celebrating canal. Volunteers have kept alive the vision of reconnecting St David’s Day. our canal to the national network. They have put in a I associate myself with the remarks made by most terrific amount of hours, physically rebuilding the canal, Members about the recent flooding across the UK, but getting the technical documentation ready, and getting especially in Wales—people would expect the Member the grants and funding in place to reconnect Montgomery for Montgomeryshire, which is the source of the Severn, canal to the UK national network and to Llangollen to touch on flooding. I pay tribute to our farmers—they canal in the constituency of my neighbour, my hon. have not yet been mentioned—who throughout these Friend the Member for Clwyd South. I pay tribute to crises have stood up and delivered for our communities them for that work. yet again. It always amazes me how, with such little As well as the Montgomery canal, which we want to warning, they can protect their livestock and prevent go from Newtown right out of Wales to the rest of the them from islanding by getting them safely away from UK, there are people setting up and building their the floodplains in Montgomeryshire and across the visions across Montgomeryshire, including organisations UK. They have also looked after our roads and constituents, such as the Centre for Alternative Technology. We can saving many of them in their beautiful farm vehicles as argue about funding models and vehicles for delivering they drive across what at times looks like an ocean. renewables, but looking at organisations such as the I want to touch on devolution in relation to flooding, Montgomery canal, the Welshpool and Llanfair light because some of the tone of this debate has been amiss, railway and the Centre for Alternative Technology, one particularly given the change that I felt for the first time cannot help but admire the spirit of the people getting on devolution. I am one of the most passionate advocates involved locally and those who travel from across the for strengthening the Welsh Assembly—a badge that does UK—and, indeed, the world—to help out and take not always win me a huge number of friends—and I part. In fact, such is the ambition of Montgomeryshire believe in making devolution work. While I have huge that the Welshpool and Llanfair light railway just lent problems with the Welsh Government and with the one of our great steam trains to Taiwan; the growing managerial style that we have heard Labour Members global network of our heritage railways continues. But talk about over the past 20 years, we really need to look we do not have to look far to see what makes Wales at the way that cheap political points are being chucked stand out, and to understand its great tourism potential. around at a time of crisis. Welshpool’s Powis castle, the canal and other aspects of I know that we will have an Opposition day debate the area really do put us on the map. next week, and we can have this out again then, but the I am conscious that I should wind up, but I quickly Prime Minister said yesterday that he would passport want to mention a couple of issues on which we need to funds, and the Secretary of State has made it clear that work together. The national development framework he is working with the First Minister.My constituents—and, sets out where we should build our next tranche of wind I detect, constituents across Wales—are really getting and solar energy infrastructure. We need to work together annoyed at the rhetoric. I fear that unless those of us to ensure that these frameworks and policies are right who care passionately about devolution work together, for our communities and for national grid connections. that change could mean looking at devolution, and I We need to ensure we do not overly concentrate that fear what that would mean. infrastructure on our beautiful rolling hills, or industrialise them, and so affect tourism. The scheme should not go I am reminded of the EU referendum, when many near areas of tourism. I will end on that point about Labour Members of Parliament and Assembly Members Governments and parties working together. If we are to were delighted to help campaign for the remain side in change our energy mix and deliver the next phase of Cardiff—they looked at their constituency and thought, renewable energies, we need to get electricity out of “Hmm, I’ll go and help in Cardiff today, because it’s Wales and connect it to the grid, while being mindful of showing 70% for remain.” We need to look at what is the need to take our communities with us. Over- happening across Wales with this rhetoric of, “We don’t concentration will not work. have the powers; we don’t have the money; it’s not our fault this time.” Twenty years on, if we do not take this Mr Deputy Speaker, you have nodded at me more seriously,and if both parties do not look at the competences than once, so I will sit down, having given that caution and delivery, working with the Welsh Government, then about devolution and been over-dramatic on occasion, next year that wind of change could mean that we look but let me also say how great it is to be Welsh on at the fundamental constitutional settlement of the St David’s Day. Happy St David’s Day! United Kingdom. Let me move on to a happier note: Montgomeryshire. 3.48 pm What is great about this debate is that we can talk about Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab): It is a privilege to follow the infrastructure that we require, want and campaign the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams). for in our constituencies.Montgomeryshire is a cross-border I fear that I am going to break the consensus on county. We look east and west, and we work with our cross-party working—something that he knows that I neighbours. I am conscious that Members, from my am keen on—but I am afraid that I need to highlight some 561 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 562

[Chris Elmore] 10 years Wales has received only 2% of the available funding from the UK Government. The Government’s of the inequalities as I see them, because they come great train robbery is a scandal and shows just how little within matters that are the responsibility of the UK the Conservatives care about investing in the future of Government. It is a privilege to speak in this debate, the Welsh economy or the communities who support it. and I wish all Members across the House a happy Whether it is transport infrastructure, digital St David’s Day for Sunday. infrastructure or renewable energy infrastructure, the We are just two months into a new decade, and the Tories are failing Wales at each and every turn. Looking start of a new decade should be a time to reflect on the to the economy more widely, Members across this House past 10 years and think about the progress we have will be all too aware of the low pay crisis we face across made. It is the aim of every Member of this House to too many of our industries. ensure that, as the decade rolls on, the lives of the people in our communities improve, there are more Jonathan Edwards: The Silk commission identified the chances for our children, better services for our families issue about rail infrastructure development. Following and an ever-increasing number of better, well-paid jobs, that, we had the so-called St David’s Day process, in which enabling people to live secure and satisfying lives, but it Labour and the Conservative party agreed to take measures is not that simple, because the UK has had a decade of on that recommendation out of the Wales Bill. The failure Tory rule at Westminster. We have had 10 years of therefore falls on the hon. Gentleman’s party as well. relentless cuts and Tory disdain for communities such as mine. Sadly, my party’s failure to win the general Chris Elmore: The failure falls on the Government. election means that we are set for more of the same, or The hon. Gentleman knows that. His party has been in indeed worse, because behind the bluff and bluster of government as well. My party created devolution— the Tories harping on in 2020 about levelling up our something that Plaid failed miserably to do, despite all country, the Prime Minister and his now rather famous its years of campaigning for it. adviser are among the most divisive teams we have had Unemployment is at a historically low level in Wales, in Downing Street since Mrs Thatcher—and we all thanks to the hard work of the Welsh Labour Government, know how that ended for Wales. but sadly, for too many, this work is not paying. I am What is different now, though, is that since the advent pleased that Welsh Labour is delivering on, and surpassing, of devolution in 1999, delivered by Tony Blair’s Labour our promise to create 100,000 all-age apprenticeships to Government, we have had a devolved Labour Government give our young people skilled and well-paid jobs long in Cardiff Bay. Over the past 10 years, they have strained into the future. It is also great to see Welsh Labour’s every sinew to protect our communities from the brunt commitment to make Wales a fair work nation, which of austerity, but in the face of the savage cuts to funding means that companies wanting Welsh Government support from Westminster, there is only so much the Welsh must sign an economic contract helping to boost the Labour Government can do. I will outline a few areas number of people who are being paid the real national for the Chancellor to focus on in his upcoming Budget, living wage. What have we seen instead from the UK and a few of the things he could deliver in Wales, in return Government? A fake living wage that people under 25 for a few Welsh cakes to go with his Yorkshire tea. cannot even be paid, a backs-turned approach to the Failing that, I am happy to drop the Welsh cakes off at future of our steel industry, and a “couldn’t care less” No. 10 when Mr Cummings redrafts the Chancellor’swork. attitude to the universal credit crisis that has plunged First, I want to talk about infrastructure.Since Christmas, thousands of people into poverty across Wales. we have had talk of bridges to Ireland; HS2 was given While the Prime Minister and Chancellor are busy the go-ahead; and dead cats about moving Government making No. 10 and No. 11 a joint office, perhaps they Departments across the country seem to have been could take just a moment—I plead with the Minister—to flung about on a daily basis. One thing has been missing stop and think about what a grave impact their party’s in this apparent funding frenzy: yet again, as has happened policies have been having on communities in Wales ever since the Tories came to power, we have had nothing since 2010. Ogmore cannot take another five years of —not even a crumb—for Wales. But should we even be the same old stale Tory policies, and he has heard that surprised by this? The UK Government scrapped rail from those on his party’s Benches today. Ogmore needs electrification to Swansea. They put to bed the idea of a pay rise. delivering the world’s first tidal lagoon in Swansea More widely, Wales needs a pay rise. The Welsh bay—although I am glad to hear that the Secretary of Government’s budget is around 5% lower in real terms State is U-turning on his predecessor’s decision on than it was in 2010. If the Welsh budget had risen in line that—and they completely and utterly fail to give Wales with the long-term trend of public expenditure, it would fair funding to improve infrastructure. be £6 billion higher than it is today. That is around Contrast this with the Welsh Labour Government, £1,800 per person. Just think what we could spend that who are investing a whopping £5 billion in our rural rail on. It could build on the Welsh Government’s work to network through Transport for Wales, and providing a tackle homelessness; it could be pumped into local £1.8 billion investment to ensure that all trains are government, which has been pushed to breaking point replaced with new rolling stock by 2023. Half those because of Government austerity; and it could save trains will be built in Wales. This is bringing skilled job lives in our NHS. opportunities for workers across Wales and ensuring I ask the Minister to impress on the Chancellor the that we have a transport system that is fit for the future. need for reinvestment in Wales, because levelling up our Meanwhile, despite our having 11% of the track across country is not about trying to buy the trust of the England and Wales and 20% of the level crossings—yes, so-called red wall seats the Conservatives won in the I am back on that complaint again—over the past north of England; it is about providing a fairer future 563 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 564 for everyone across our United Kingdom. I stand here services are devolved and which are not. A lot of people as a proud Unionist; I will staunchly defend our Union complained to me about the health service in north while I am in this place and long into the future, but Wales without realising that it is the responsibility of under this Tory Government, Wales is too much of a the Welsh Government. A&E waiting times have been tick-box exercise that does not even matter; the box the worst on record for two months in a row, and in often does not get ticked at all. The people of Wales do education, 2019 GCSE results were no better than in matter. I plead with the Minister to reverse these 10 years 2007, but the number of people who continually blame of austerity and start investing in Wales. Westminster for those challenges is staggering. I consider it very important over the next 14 months, in the run-up to the Welsh elections in May 2021, to highlight to 3.56 pm people just who is responsible for what, so that their Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): Celebrated Welsh poet frustrations—and, indeed, occasional praise—can be T.H. Parry-Williams wrote in his famous work “Hon”: directed to the appropriate places. “Beth yw’r ots gennyf i am Gymru? Damwain a hap The Wales Act 2017 delivered a clearer and more Yw fy mod yn ei libart yn byw. Nid yw hon ar fap stable devolution settlement for Wales by devolving Yn ddim byd ond cilcyn o ddaear mewn cilfach gefn, important powers to the Senedd on energy, transport Ac yn dipyn o boendod i’r rhai sy’n credu mewn trefn.” and local government. At the 2018 Budget, the UK Unfortunately, that is sometimes how the people of Government announced plans to increase the Welsh Wales think. The translation of the words, which does Government’sbudget by £1.2 billion, including a 5% Barnett not quite encapsulate the feeling of the piece, is: boost of £67 million over the next five years. Subsequently, “What do I care of Wales? It is by accident and chance at the September 2019 spending round, the Government increased funding for the Welsh Government by a further That I am living here freely. She isn’t on a map £600 million. They cannot keep complaining that they And is nothing but a piece of land in a hidden creek, do not have enough funding; they just need to make And a bit of a nuisance to those who believe in order.” better choices. In the rest of the poem, Parry-Williams was searching for the “Welsh way”, questioning the relevance of Welsh There are still issues and problems with the funding culture in society and the blaming of the country’sproblems formula for Wales. The Barnett formula—that short-term on the English, when in fact sometimes our problems measure designed in 1978—is not fit for purpose and can be closer to home and generated by ourselves. needs wholesale reform. Demographics are the key, and they are not properly considered under Barnett. By way What a neat segue into devolution that is! Who would of example, my constituency of Delyn has a median have thought that this theme would be repeated so often age of 46 compared with a median age of 40 across at the Senedd in Cardiff? Every week at First Minister’s the rest of the UK, and 23% of the population are questions and other departmental questions, inquiries over 65 compared with 18% nationally. These figures are made about transport services in Wales, where the may not seem hugely substantial, but they are statistically providers are asked to make changes such as making it significant, as they indicate the ageing population in my possible to get from Holyhead to Cardiff in four hours constituency, which therefore has an increased need for on the train, but they can only do so by cutting out a health and social care. The calculation of funding based raft of local stations from the programme, and they on headcount, which does not take into account different then have to take the complaints imposed on them by needs or costs, is flawed, and that should be addressed the requirements of the Welsh Government. Inquiries as a priority. are made about educational standards in Wales, where our hard-working teachers are asked to do more with Devolution is here to stay and is not going away. less and feel more disenfranchised and unsupported. There are many in north Wales who feel it has never Inquiries are also made about health in Wales, where worked: funding coming from Cardiff is just as detached four out of the seven health boards are in special from the north as it was when it came from Westminster, measures or have some form of targeted intervention, and we have just switched one funding body for another, with the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board in while adding an extra level of governance and cost in north Wales having been in that state for almost five the middle. In many ways, they are right, but let us be years. Our health boards have some of the most dedicated very clear: it does not need to be that way. The calls for and caring professionals, who come in every day to fight the abolition of the Senedd are not fair and are fires and battle against a system at breaking point. unreasonable. Honestly, I used to be one of those who Every week, when those questions are asked in the called for its abolition, and then my mind was changed Senedd, there is only one answer from the First Minister by hon. and right hon. Friends, including my hon. and his colleagues: “Westminster doesn’t send us enough Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams), money.” That is the stock response every time, yet for who, sadly, is no longer in his place. every £1 spent on the NHS in England, there is around If the Labour party had won the election here in 15% more available to be spent on the NHS in Wales—it December, nobody would have been calling for the is just poorly spent and targeted in the wrong ways. T.H. abolition of Parliament just because there was a useless Parry-Williams was right: we cannot just keep blaming party in charge—nothing of the sort. They would just the English for all our ills. We need to look closer to have campaigned harder next time and highlighted the home. weaknesses in that Administration, and so it is with us. Like my right hon. Friends the Members for Preseli We need to get over the fact that we do not like it and Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) and for Clwyd West feel that it is not working, and recognise that it is not (Mr Jones), I was amazed during the campaign just how that the structure does not work, but that the problem few people I spoke to on the doorstep realised which lies with the party in control of the structure. 565 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 566

[Rob Roberts] The effects of Storm Dennis and the subsequent flooding that hit Pontypridd and the wider Rhondda In closing, I urge my constituents and the wider Cynon Taf area just over a week ago are a key example society across Wales to recognise that these will be the of where the UK Government’s funding for Wales is issues next May, and to make sure they install a Welsh falling short. The floods in my community were completely Government who are focused on levelling up across the unprecedented. The River Taf’s levels rose to over a whole country, remembering that a huge amount of metre above all previous records, and the flood defences Wales exists if they happen to look north of Newport. that were in place were simply unable to cope. I would like to pay tribute to all the hundreds of volunteers and Several hon. Members rose— people from across our communities who have pulled together to help in these awful circumstances. We have Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. The raised considerable amounts of money, and many have wind-ups will begin at 4.40 pm, and seven Members are donated clothing or food to help others. That is what wishing to catch my eye, so I am sure they can do the our communities in Wales do. We are always there for maths. Please be generous to your colleagues, starting each other when times are hard, and we will always with Alex Davies-Jones. continue to be there. I am extremely proud of how our local authority and 4.1 pm First Minister responded to the crisis in my community. Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): Diolch, Others may say that we are making cheap political Mr Deputy Speaker. It is a great privilege to follow the points, but I would argue that this situation basically hon. Member for Delyn (Rob Roberts). Although we shows that the UK Government do not care about do not share a lot of common interests, we do share a Wales. The Prime Minister’s absence last week was love of Welsh poetry and a dislike of the Barnett formula. utterly staggering. It is clear that the Barnett formula is simply not designed to cope with the financial impact of Dydd Gwˆyl Dewi—St David’s Day—is an important natural disasters such as this, and that problem affects day for everyone in Wales, and I wish everyone a very all of us in Wales, including colleagues across the House. happy St David’s Day for this weekend. I will be spending The Barnett formula requires urgent attention, and I the weekend celebrating with a paned and a welsh cake hope Ministers will do all they can to find a way or two, and I also look forward to celebrating with my forward—a way forward for Wales. son for his first St David’s Day. It will come as no surprise to colleagues that I am extremely proud to be 4.5 pm Welsh, and the Welsh valleys do truly run through my veins. I am Ponty born and bred: I was born in Church Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab): It is such a pleasure Village in my constituency, and I spent my early years to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd training to be an air cadet in Pontyclun. I sang in the (Alex Davies-Jones). She has made a real impact since National Youth Choir of Wales, and my teen years were coming to Parliament some months ago, and she is also spent socialising with friends at the Rhondda Bowl in in the process of organising the Welsh parliamentary Tonyrefail. Labour party social. That is an excellent role and a task We have so much to celebrate in Wales, including our for which she is perfectly qualified, and I am glad she proud musical heritage and our rugby teams’prowess—as has taken it on. others have done, I will quickly move past the scores I want to look forward to this year, because I think last weekend—yet there is so much more to home in 2020 promises to be truly memorable. That is not because Wales than the traditional stereotypes may suggest. In it will be the first year of this Tory Government—far recent weeks, it has become clear that Wales really does from it—but because having waited 58 years to reach a not receive its fair share of funding from this Government. major tournament in 2016, the Welsh football team, I hope colleagues will indulge me as I briefly touch on just like a London bus, is now back at the Euros. Let us the Barnett funding, which we have just heard about, cast our minds back to 2016—what a summer that was! and on why I believe that the recent events, such as the Great memories. Who can forget Gareth Bale’s free unprecedented flooding in my constituency, are simply kicks against Slovakia and particularly England, or Hal more evidence that Barnett consequentials are no longer Robson-Kanu’s Cruyff turn in the comeback win over fit for purpose. Belgium, en route to the semi-finals? Euro 2020 may be Last year, the Public Accounts Committee published even more extraordinary and unforgettable—I certainly its assessment of the Barnett formula and found that hope so. there is a lack of transparency about how funding is The summer of 2016 typified what it means to be allocated. I find it utterly staggering that the formula is Welsh: a proud nation, punching above its weight, with not set out in law, but is instead up to interpretation by everybody coming together. Indeed, that was summed the Treasury. This clearly outdated method left spending up by the team’s motto, “Together Stronger”, and over per head in Wales last year at the lowest of the devolved past few weeks, as Wales has been buffeted by truly nations, and I truly believe that my constituents and the terrible weather—first Storm Ciara, and then Storm people of Wales deserve better. The Welsh Labour Dennis—“Together Stronger”has felt appropriate. More Government are doing some fantastic and pioneering than a month’s worth of rain fell in just 48 hours, and work, yet with not enough funding. I specifically want despite being left to fend for ourselves as usual by the to take this opportunity to pay tribute to my colleagues part-time Prime Minister and the Tory Government, in the Senedd, who are leading the way on a range of communities across Wales stepped up to the plate. I pay issues from climate change to investments in new tribute to them, and to our wonderful emergency services construction technologies to help with the apparent and brilliant council workforces who have worked tirelessly housing crisis. in these challenging circumstances. 567 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 568

We have always been tough and resilient in Wales, but The Welsh Government must also give Wales a voice we are experiencing more and more extreme weather, in the EU trade negotiations. The First Minister today and such events bring into sharper focus the need to do made clear that the Government’s negotiating position more to address the climate and environmental crisis that would almost certainly result in a loss of jobs in Wales we face.Out of every crisis should come an opportunity—an and a diminishment of livelihoods. He made it clear opportunity for Britain to lead the world in renewable that there has been no consultation on the UK’snegotiating energies. The Swansea bay tidal lagoon would have mandate and that we are not represented in the talks. provided heat to thousands of homes, using clean, Labour is a proud party of devolution, but devolution green, reliable and sustainable energy, and saving almost only works if the UK Government respect the devolution 0.25 million tonnes of carbon during each year of its principle. The Welsh Government have suffered a decade operation. If the Government are serious about tackling of diminishing budgets.Even with the previous Chancellor’s climate change, they should reconsider that opportunity extra £600 million for Wales, the Welsh Government’s and back that game changer for the industry. What an budget for 2021 will be £300 million lower in real terms opportunity to “level up” the country, as the Prime than it was in 2010-11. As a result, my council, Neath Minister likes to put it, by putting the Swansea bay area Port Talbot Council, has had to remove more than at the forefront of that clean, green, energy technology. £80 million from its budget since 2010 and is expected In reality, while the Tory Government talk a good to find a further £42 million in cuts between now and game on caring about Wales, they are not willing to put 2023. Despite the sterling efforts of the Welsh Government their money where their mouth is. Just look at rail and Welsh councils to shield our communities from electrification to Swansea. In 2016, the then Secretary the worst of the cuts, my constituents have suffered of State for Wales gave me a categorical commitment due to the Conservatives’ dismissive attitude towards on national TV to electrify the line to Swansea. It was Wales. They are quick to devolve blame, slow to devolve even a Tory manifesto commitment in 2017, but it has resources. The first step must be to junk the Barnett fallen foul of one of those famous, or perhaps I should formula and replace it with a fair funding formula for say infamous, Tory U-turns. The entire budget for Wales. electrifying the main line to Swansea would be less than This year marks 35 years since the end of the miners’ 1% of the vast sums that will be spent on High Speed 2. strike, which will be marked in mining communities Will the Secretary of State do what his predecessors across Wales and in coalfield communities across the have failed to do, and stand up for Wales by committing UK. During the strike, we saw the true meaning of to electrify the main line to Swansea? community spirit. That has not left us and it never will. This is not just about rail infrastructure. For decades, As the grandson of a coalminer, I know that that wealth, power, opportunity and talent have been never-say-die attitude and commitment to local community agglomerating in our major cities at the expense of has been passed down through the generations. It is industrial, rural and coastal areas. To truly rebalance with that spirit that I will continue to fight for Aberavon our economy, or level up as the Government like to say, in Westminster. My Aberavon constituents deserve better we need the Government to back a modern manufacturing than what is being offered by the current UK Government. renaissance, starting in places like Aberavon. Part of They need a Government who deliver on their promises the package must be a sector deal for steel. Steel is a to Wales and recognise the potential of our fantastic, 21st-century industry and is integral to our everyday vibrant and talented communities. We in Wales know lives—to transport, to infrastructure and to our defence that together we are stronger. It is high time that the industry. It underpins our entire manufacturing base. Government realised that, too.Diolch, and happy St David’s HS2 will use 2 million tonnes of steel and is a real Day. opportunity for the Government to back British steel through a patriotic approach to procurement. The 4.13 pm Government need to strike a sector deal for steel if they are going to foster growth. Automotive, aerospace and Beth Winter (Cynon Valley) (Lab): Diolch yn fawr, construction all have sector deals. Why does the steel Dirprwy Lefarydd, am y cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl y industry not have one? Action on energy prices is essential. prynhawn yma. Mae e’n gyfle pwysig i ni drafod materion UK steelmakers are paying prices that are double those o bwys i ni fel Aelodau Seneddol o Gymru. Thank you, of our German competitors and 50% higher than in Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to speak today, France. UK steelmakers are fighting with one hand tied as it is an important opportunity to deal with matters of behind their back. importance to us as Welsh MPs. Industrial towns need clarity on replacing EU funding. Two recent events that have affected my particular The UK shared prosperity fund—I am proud to chair constituency, Cynon Valley, and the local authority the all-party group—is set to replace EU funding, but it area of Rhondda Cynon Taff, have given me food for has taken on near mythical status. What has happened thought on a more general level. One has obviously to the promised consultation? Everything about the been the devastating floods we have suffered and the fund is still to be worked out and the clock is ticking other is the future of services in one of our local down every day towards 1 January 2021. What is certain hospitals,the Royal Glam—the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. is that the Government must not use the fund to row The flooding has been a tragedy for individuals, with back on the devolution settlement or to short-change over 650 homes and 500 businesses seriously affected, communities like Port Talbot by a sleight of hand in roads and bridges damaged and individual lives traumatised. Westminster. The Government must guarantee not I have been in tears seeing how people have lost so much a penny less and not a power lost. It is the duty of that was precious to them. I also pay tribute to all the the Secretary of State to be a strong voice for Wales local residents, councillors, the fire services and the on this issue. First Minister for the work that they have done. 569 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 570

[Beth Winter] of St David. One of my Scottish colleagues, who shall remain nameless, pointed out to me that the mosaic of Dealing with the aftermath of that event is going to St Andrew sits above the route to the bars. be hard on an individual constituent level and on a Coming from Scotland, I am used to our patron wider scale, in terms of local authorities and the Welsh saint’s day being a national holiday.I think it is something Government having to deal with the immediate and to be celebrated and I do not understand why we cannot longer-term consequences of what has happened. However, make St David’s Day a national holiday in Wales. The this is happening after 10 years of Tory austerity policies hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams), and the underfunding of the Welsh Government since who is no longer in his place, commended the increased the Barnett formula was set up. Our Welsh Government prominence of St David’s Day, so hopefully he and get less money than they did 10 years ago. My local Government Members would support the call for the authority, Rhondda Cynon Taff, lost £90 million in Government to give the Welsh Government the power funding over the last years of Tory austerity policies, to do just that. but if I say that, I am accused of playing politics with the flooding. I am not ashamed of or going to shy away Last weekend, I attended the These Islands conference from the reality of inadequate funding—the underfunding in Newcastle and contributed to a panel on the work of —of Wales over these years of Tory Government. It is the Constitution Reform Group, members of which not me who is playing politics with the lives of the included the CRG member, Carwyn Jones, the former people of RCT; the Tories have done that with their Welsh First Minister. We need to examine the powers policy of austerity. That was their political choice. that have and have not been devolved to the Welsh Government and whether the current arrangements If that argument does not work, the Tories come deliver the best outcomes for the people of Wales. back with, “Ah, but flood defences, or the health service, Justice is not currently devolved in Wales, unlike in are devolved—nothing to do with us folks”. Rubbish—neu Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the Commission swbriel yn Cymraeg! Yes, those services are devolved on Justice in Wales, which was set up by Carwyn Jones and the Welsh Government take their responsibility when he was First Minister, was designed to review the seriously, with progressive policies to combat climate operation of the Welsh justice system. change and on free prescriptions, and having introduced organ donation changes seven years before that was The report of the Commission on Justice in Wales considered in England. But who holds the purse strings? was unequivocal. It said that the justice system should Westminster, and our health and social care system be devolved for Wales. That was the evidence-based throughout the United Kingdom is straining to survive, finding of an independent commission chaired by a and we will strain even further to do so if the immigration former Lord Chief Justice, Lord Thomas. I come from policies being proposed get through. All this is happening a policing background in Scotland, where these matters against the backdrop of Wales being one of the poorest are devolved, and although I have concerns about the areas of the United Kingdom, where people have to use structure of Police Scotland, which are being highlighted food banks to manage and where benefit cuts mean that in the Scottish Parliament today, I believe that the families must decide whether to eat or heat their homes. Welsh Government should have the same devolved oversight This is unacceptable. of their police service. There are clear difficulties in managing the different governance arrangements of My final thought is that we need to make our politics different public services, and ultimately those difficulties here in Westminster relevant to the people we represent. fail the people of Wales. I call on the Government to This argument about devolved services is used by the engage properly with the report and not to reject it Tory Government to wash their hands of their responsibility outright, as they appeared to do in the recent Westminster and we need to make it clear that we will not let that Hall debate secured by the right hon. Member for happen. One of my grandfathers was a miner and the Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts). The findings other was a steelworker. What little they had, they of that impartial report should be implemented and earned by hard work. They did not make millions by Welsh devolution arrangements in this area be brought speculating on the stock exchange. Wehave a responsibility into alignment with those of Scotland and Northern to the people of Wales at every turn to argue that the Ireland. wealth that exists in this country, much of which was created by them, needs to be shared out so that we Ahead of St David’s Day, I pay tribute to my Welsh reverse the position where 10% of the population owns Liberal Democrat colleagues, in particular their leader 45% of the wealth. As I said in my maiden speech, we Jane Dodds, the former Member of Parliament for need state intervention to help our people. It has helped Brecon and Radnorshire. It is a matter of personal wealth and privilege for far too long. A alla i orffen sadness that Jane and I did not have the opportunity to trwy ddymuno Dydd Gwˆyl Dewi hapus i bawb? Diolch sit together on these Benches, and it was a privilege to yn fawr. campaign with her last year in the villages dotting the Wales-England border. In her brief tenure as an MP, she fought on behalf of her constituents to stop a 4.18 pm no-deal Brexit, which would have been damaging to the Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD): It is a communities she represented. I am confident that she great pleasure to take part in this debate ahead of will return to this House in the future. St David’s Day this Sunday. The designers of this place I know that Jane has been visiting those affected by were very much aware of the significance of a reminder the recent flooding caused by Storms Ciara and Dennis, of who we are and our story. Central Lobby is adorned and it is on that subject that I will make my final with beautiful mosaics of the patron saints of the four remarks. Throughout this week, we have heard from parts of this United Kingdom. Toget from Central Lobby Members in all parts of the House about how flooding to the Chamber, Members pass underneath the mosaic has affected their constituents. The impact in Wales has 571 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 572 been particularly severe, with areas that have no history scrapped rail electrification, but Welsh Labour is investing of flooding experiencing it for the first time. I therefore £5 billion, which is making a difference even with the find it deeply disappointing that the Prime Minister has problems posed by a backlog of legacy issues. We have not visited and listened to the people whose homes, already talked about the tidal lagoon, and the House workplacesandliveshavebeendevastated.Visibleleadership will know my feelings about that. is an obligation, whether you are seeking votes at the While the Conservative Government push more families time or not. I have been heartened by reports of into poverty through universal credit, Welsh Labour is communities coming together in response to flooding. delivering the most generous childcare offer for working The hon. Members for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) families anywhere in the UK. When I called for a and for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) have set up crowdfunding children’s funeral fund, it was the Welsh Government pages, and Welsh rugby international George North who responded almost immediately, although I am donated a number of personal items to raise money for grateful to the UK Government for following suit eventually. Lydney rugby club in Gloucestershire, which demonstrates The truth is that when it comes to standing up for the close connections and bonds of friendship that exist Wales—against the background of Plaid Cymru’s reborn across the border of England and Wales. In that spirit obsession with independence, which diverts attention of friendship, I conclude by wishing all in this place a from the pressing challenges that our communities face, happy St David’s Day this Sunday, and say “Sláinte!” to with dogma always triumphing over delivery—it is Welsh all those raising a glass in toast to the Welsh patron Labour that delivers. All too often, however, those saint. outside Wales, and far too many in it, could be forgiven for not knowing much about that. In far too much of 4.22 pm our political discourse and in our media, both public Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab): As ever, it is a service and privately owned, what happens in Wales huge pleasure to speak in today’s debate on Welsh stays in Wales; or sometimes, apparently, it does not affairs, in honour of which I sound as if am impersonating happen at all. Bonnie Tyler. This is not the disgraceful “fake news” bandwagon As deputy leader of the Welsh Labour party, I thank that has poisoned so much of our public debate. This is every candidate who put their head above the parapet not me pointing the finger at politicians from across the and stood as a candidate in Wales in the last general UK. This is about my wish to end the blasé and too election, especially my hon. Friends the Members for frequent approach of too many people in this place, in Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) and for Cynon Valley the media and in UK public life who are not discussing (Beth Winter). It is not easy to stand in an election, and or reporting effectively on politics in Wales. it was especially difficult at the last election because of How many Members have heard Ministers stand at the unpleasant atmosphere that, sadly, characterised the Dispatch Box and forget about devolution when it the campaign, but together Welsh Labour took our suits them? How many times have we, as a UK Labour strong campaign into the communities up and down party, repeatedly missed opportunities to shout loudly Wales in very challenging circumstances. Although I and proudly about the achievements of our party in the was and continue to be devastated by the result of the only nation of the UK where we still have a Labour election, I remain immensely proud to be the deputy Government? How many times have the Government—and leader of a party I love, and I have no doubt that our all too often, sadly, the Opposition of late—announced strong Welsh Labour team will bounce back. I am plans for “England and Wales” which are clearly for confident that we can unite and show that another England only? How many times have we seen news future is possible as we campaign together ahead of articles circulate online about policy areas that are fully next year’s Assembly elections. or partially devolved, making zero—literally zero—reference The St David’s Day debate is always an important to the Welsh Labour Government? How often does the opportunity to showcase what we love about Wales, as “Today”programme, or the front pages of the newspapers, well as to shine a light on the challenges facing us in the or the discussions on our political panel shows, give future. Far too often, what happens in Wales goes under Wales, our Government and our civic society the respect the radar. Put simply, to have one debate a year is to pay that they deserve? Hardly ever, and it makes my blood lip service, at best. Wales deserves far, far more. Labour boil. We have to do much, much better. Members know the truth: where Welsh Labour leads, So I am throwing down the gauntlet as ballots go out others follow. In so many areas, Welsh Labour policies in this crucial Labour leadership contest, which is are improving the lives of people across Wales and responsible for my loss of voice. Whoever the next UK setting the bar for the rest of the United Kingdom. Labour leader is—and yes, I will happily declare an Presumed consent organ donation has been saving lives interest—will need to bang the drum for Labour in in Wales since 2015. Hospital car park charges were Wales, for Wales in Labour, and, quite simply, for scrapped by the Welsh Government in 2018. Social Wales. I am fed up with people spending so much time housing stocks plummeted, so right to buy was scrapped debating whether we should be proud of the last Labour by Welsh Labour in 2018. Nursing bursaries were scrapped Government, while apparently forgetting to take seriously across England, but in Wales, Welsh Labour protected the record of a Labour Government who we are still them to invest in the future of the NHS and the workforce. running to this day. Our UK and our Welsh media have Schools in England were stripped of funding, with a role to play as well: to hold to account, to expose children forced to learn in crumbling buildings devoid failures where they exist, and to hold our collective feet of resources. Welsh Labour delivered our most ambitious to the flames. housing programme in history, giving pupils across It is about time that our national broadcasters and Wales a 21st-century education in new buildings with national newspapers acknowledged that Welsh government state-of-the-art facilities. The Conservative Government exists,and should get a look in from time to time.How many 573 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 574

[Carolyn Harris] fact that people might argue about value for money and the targeting of the funding, but the Secretary of State times, on big, UK-wide issues, do we hear from Nicola needs to stand up for Wales. We need that money in Sturgeon but not from Mark Drakeford? How many Wales, and if we get it, we can then have an argument times do we hear about the financial impact of something about where it should be spent, rather than having an on Scotland, but not about its impact on Wales? If we argument about how it should be spent and ending up are truly to be a country of four nations, and if we are with less money. For example, Swansea University is to prove that we value our precious and threatened doubling in size by investing in the Bay campus. It is a Union, we need this to start being reflected in our massive engine for economic growth, and it has a great national debate. need for those stimuli. We should not be the “And finally” segment at the Speaking of Swansea naturally leads me to talk about end of “News at Ten”. We never get an opportunity to the railways. We were promised rail electrification, which see Wales on a national platform, and it really is pitiful. would have put us on the pan-European network, with I am not looking at this through the lens of narrow all the advantages that would have for business party self-interest. The way we see our media, particularly communications, industry and exports, but that was our broadcast media, being degraded by the trolls on denied us. In addition, Network Rail took out an extra social media and the special advisers in Downing Street, £1 billion, and we now face HS2, which will get between should make us take back a step back and pause for £80 billion and £100 billion of investment. That will thought. Our free and crusading media, which I work mean it will take one hour and 10 minutes to get from with, respect and value, is the envy of much of the word London to Manchester instead of two hours and and often a courageous force for good. That is why it 10 minutes, but it will still take three hours to get to infuriates me when they so often ignore one of the most Swansea. This is a problem. We need to think about a important parts—to me—of the United Kingdom. strategic plan that will link Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea, I want Wales to be centre stage, and I want a UK which have a population of 3 million people—the Labour leader who is committed to putting us there. I same number of people as Manchester and Leeds. The want us to celebrate and value Wales every day in this difference is that Manchester and Leeds have connectivity Chamber, not just for three hours once a year. We need six times an hour, and we have it once an hour. We need to do better. I do not want to stand here in a year’s time to make that regional economic cluster work for us. trumpeting achievements no one had heard about to a In the short term, Great Western Railway has already Press Gallery that treats this debate like a primary changed the timetable, so instead of having two trains school bring-your-toys-to-school day. I want us to do an hour out of Swansea that go to Paddington, one better and I am marking the homework. I am saying changing at Cardiff on the Manchester Piccadilly route, that we must do better. We should do better. We have to we now have only one. Instead of leaving at 28 minutes do better. past, it now leaves at 23 minutes past, meaning that people cannot connect at Cardiff. If someone randomly arrives at Swansea station, the average wait is now half 4.31 pm an hour instead of a quarter of an hour. To reduce a Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): In the waiting time by quarter of an hour would normally cost brief time available, I want to touch on the need for hundreds of billions of pounds, but the alternative in support for Wales in terms of both climate change and the short term would be for the Secretary of State to Brexit. In relation to climate change, we are all aware of write to Great Western Railway and tell it to look again the catastrophic impacts of flooding in Pontypridd and at the timetables, so that we can get connectivity with Rhondda Cynon Taf. As the former head of flood risk Transport for Wales and have not only two trains an management across Wales with executive power to invest hour out of Swansea, but two trains out of Paddington in flood defences, I know that the needs of Wales are to Swansea to encourage inward investment. It is a dictated by its topography. The steep sloping valleys simple thing that would not cost much, so I urge the give rise to fast flash flooding, and over time climate Secretary of State to get on with it. change is increasing that risk. We also have the legacy of On trade deals and our relationship with Europe, it coal tips. Meanwhile on our coasts, in certain parts has been mentioned that 60% of our trade is with the of north Wales and also in Swansea, there is a great deal EU. Whether someone is producing lamb, steel, cars of tidal flood risk, which is also increasing as a result of or aerospace products, frictionless trade is massively climate change. important. It is all very well the Prime Minister saying, The UK Government need to respect the fact that “It’ll all be all right on the night. It is all about our those things need to be sorted out sooner rather than sovereignty,” but it is not all about sovereignty; it is all later, and that they are not linked to our population or about people’s jobs, livelihoods and future. The people to the Barnett formula. They are linked to the actual who voted to leave the EU did not vote to leave their risk; the number of people living in an area is just a jobs. fluke. We need that money now. I very much hope that Finally, I am reassured to a limited extent that the the Secretary of State and the Minister will take that Secretary of State is again using warm words about the forward as a matter of great urgency because there is Swansea Bay tidal lagoon and, indeed, the lagoon in great risk as the weather continues to deteriorate. north Wales. Climate change is really hitting us for six. In relation to Brexit, Wales has benefited from We know that 80% of fossil fuels cannot be used if we convergence funding, particularly in the valleys and in are to avoid irreversible climate change, and the spot south and west Wales, and it is important, given that price of oil is deflated due to excess production and that funding has been awarded on the basis of need, fracking, which produces enormous amounts of excess that we get replication of the finance. I respect the methane that is making climate change even worse. 575 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 576

Fossil fuel companies are basically sitting on stranded a fantastic role in this place and their work will continue. assets, and the financial markets will belatedly move out I, for one, have inherited the all-party mindfulness of that sector, so we need to invest now in green, climate group from Chris Ruane. We will continue with that and change-compatible energy projects, such as the Swansea with Madeleine Moon’s campaign to scrap the six-month Bay tidal lagoon. rule for those with terminal illnesses, on which the Government have been silent—we need to press further on that. 4.36 pm Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): I will attempt 4.40 pm to condense my speech in the brief time available. I obviously want to echo what other hon. Members have Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab): It is a privilege said about the terrible flooding that has taken place in to close this debate. Of course I wish all hon. Members communities across south Wales. Newport East was a happy St David’s Day. fortunate not to be directly impacted, although nearby I also wish the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Monmouthshire was, and we sympathise and stand in Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), well. solidarity with those whose homes and businesses were Today is his long-awaited and long-anticipated Dispatch affected. I thank all the emergency services and everyone Box debut in a St David’s Day debate. By my count, he who helped. is the ninth Under-Secretary of State for Wales since We have had difficult news again this week for the 2010. I am sure he will support my argument that the Orb, with Tata announcing that no suitable buyer has revolving door approach to Wales Office Ministers now been found for the steelworks. Hon. Members may has to stop. know that the site was mothballed before Christmas, I am grateful for all the contributions today. I wish and Tata is now considering offers to use it for other the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen purposes. Fewer workplaces are more ingrained in the Crabb) well in his role as Chair of the Welsh Affairs history of Newport than the Orb, and I have spoken at Committee. I am also grateful to the hon. Member for great length about its history, but it also had a fantastic Gordon (Richard Thomson). future as the only producer of electrical steels in the I congratulate the hon. Member for Bridgend (Dr Wallis) UK. With investment, it could have played its part in on his maiden speech. All of us who grew up in south the electric vehicle revolution and electrification generally, Wales are familiar with the beauty of Rest bay, and he so this is a huge shame. We went to the Government for spoke well about the importance of the armed forces to help, and the Welsh Government did what they could, his constituency. He also paid an entirely appropriate but help was not forthcoming. I echo the comments of tribute to his predecessor, Madeleine Moon, whose my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon (Stephen fantastic campaigning on mental health and motor Kinnock), who said that we need far more action than neurone disease and, indeed, her achievement as President warm words from the Government on steel if the industrial of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly gained her respect strategy is to mean anything. on both sides of the House. Given that today has been a time for maiden speeches, I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly I felt the need to renew my vows and talk at great length (Wayne David), who spoke with his usual authority and about the brilliant things going on in Newport, but erudition both on the floods and on the wider issues of there is not much time to do that. However, the CAF the Welsh economy. railway factory in Newport was officially opened by the I pay tribute to the second maiden speech of the day, Prince of Wales last week. It has the capacity to provide made by the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Simon trains for HS2, so I hope that Ministers take that on Baynes). I was interested to hear about his musical work board, because we would really appreciate it. I fully for those with dementia and Alzheimer’s, and I send my support the excellent “We’re Backing Newport”campaign condolences on the unexpected death of his mother in launched by the South Wales Argus to promote our city January. He, too, paid a very appropriate tribute to his as a great place to live, work and bring up a family, predecessor, Susan Elan Jones. I entirely share his view which I know that because I am bringing up my own about her strong sense of integrity and care for others, family there. which brought so much to this House during her time Brilliant opportunities are coming to Newport. It is here. the ninth-fastest growing city in the UK. We have My thanks go too to my hon. Friend the Member for experienced the fourth highest rise in property prices. Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan). He and I attended the We have the international convention centre and amazing same school in Pontypool. He was the first MP from things going on in the city centre, which is in the that school and I was the second. When he says he is constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Newport now the Welsh Father of the House, I guess I will have West (Ruth Jones). We have had help from the Welsh to accept that he has beaten me to another title. Government, and Newport City Council has a new He made a powerful contribution on public sector visionary leader in Jane Mudd, who is doing a fantastic broadcasting, which will certainly be an issue in this job. Parliament. It is not all about urban regeneration either. We have My thanks go also to the right hon. Members for the fantastic RSPB Newport wetlands, which will Clwyd West (Mr Jones) and for Dwyfor Meirionnydd feature on BBC “Countryfile” on St David’s Day, so (Liz Saville Roberts) for their contributions and, indeed, please watch that. Lots of great things are going on. to the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams) My hon. Friend the Member for Neath (Christina on his second coming to this House. I certainly agree Rees) mentioned colleagues who, since the general election, with what he says about the efforts of our farmers in are no longer with us for a variety of reasons. They played recent days. 577 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 578

[Nick Thomas-Symonds] to hear what my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East said about the Orb steelworks, which was mothballed I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore before Christmas; it now seems that it will not be used (Chris Elmore), who spoke extraordinarily powerfully by the steel industry at all. That is a good example of about the impact of the UK Government over the past why we need better long-term planning. The Government 10 years.He also reminded us that of course it was a Labour are committed to a transition to electric vehicles by Government who first brought devolution to Wales. 2035, yet this is happening to the Orb plant, which The hon. Member for Delyn (Rob Roberts) spoke could have provided an end-to-end supply chain for the well about Welsh culture in society. I also pay tribute to electric vehicles industry. We would then not have had my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies- to import this kind of steel. It is crucial that the Government Jones), and it is clearly a very special St David’s Day for step up and support our steel industry. her this year as it is her son’s first one. She spoke We have heard about the go-ahead for HS2. This is a powerfully about the proud musical and sporting heritage timely moment to revisit the procurement rules. I hope not just of Pontypridd but of the Welsh nation. that on every big project in the UK, the Secretary of I share the enthusiasm of my hon. Friend the Member State and the Under-Secretary will push for the maximum for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) for the Welsh football use of UK steel. Today the mandate for the trade talks team, and I very much hope that 2020 will be a repeat of was published; if there are to be jobs and growth in that the summer of 2016. I pay tribute to his work on the sector, it is vital that we ensure that our manufacturing all-party parliamentary group on post-Brexit funding sector does not face tariffs in accessing the single market, for nations, regions and local areas, which will be looking and that regulatory alignment remains. It is also vital at post-Brexit structural funding for Wales. that the shared prosperity fund ensures that none of our communities loses out, with not a power or a penny My hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Beth lost. Winter) spoke passionately about the politics of austerity. On all these issues, we are asking the UK Government Like hers, my grandfathers were both miners, and the to step up to the plate. Let us not forget that devolution industrial heritage of south Wales is a timely reminder is about partnership. Where the Welsh Government that we always achieve more together than we achieve lead the way, the UK Government need to follow. We alone. have heard so many times in this debate in the past I thank the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy 10 years about the scale of austerity cuts in Wales; we Chamberlain) for her contribution, and my hon. Friend can see that, but none the less, the Welsh Government the Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) for her have sought to deliver for our people. They have funded contribution and for her work as deputy leader of hundreds of police community support officers. Wales Welsh Labour. Nobody could ever accuse her of not was the only part of the UK recently to see improvement shouting loudly and proudly about Wales. My hon. in all three programme for international student assessment Friend the Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) scores—reading, maths and science. spoke powerfully and passionately about the need for I have heard a lot about the Welsh NHS today, but urgent action on climate change, and I am delighted health spending per person is 6% higher in Wales than it that my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East is in England. I have been pleased to see that Wales has (Jessica Morden) was able to make a contribution, led the way with a single cancer pathway, meaning that particularly on steel, to which I shall return in a moment. all suspected cancers are treated the same. Wales was The impact of flooding on our communities, which is the first nation in Europe to legislate for safe nursing the backdrop to this debate, has been devastating. Our staffing levels, and it has led the way on organ donation. thoughts are with those families who have lost everything. On the environment, Wales has the best rates of domestic As the water recedes and the national media interest recycling in the UK and has banned fracking, and it has fades, the human cost will remain, as will the damage to produced the leading Well-being of Future Generations the Welsh economy. The Welsh First Minister, Mark (Wales) Act 2015, putting the interests of future generations Drakeford, has acted quickly and decisively. It is not a first, with sustainability at the heart of policy. As we cheap political point to say that the Prime Minister is talk about generations of the future, it is fitting to recall not just a party leader, but the national leader; he is the that 16 and 17-year-olds will have the vote in the next Prime Minister, and at times of crisis above all, it is for Senedd elections. Ultimately, though, it is for the UK those who hold that office to show leadership to the Government, working with the Welsh Government, to communities affected. I am sorry to say that the Prime deliver for the Welsh people. Minister simply has not done that. Wehave had manyexcellent contributions from Members In the Prime Minister’s absence, our communities of all parties on many, many issues. The Labour certainly have shown their extraordinary resilience, of Government in Wales have continued to invest in our which we can all be proud. I pay tribute to all my communities, in health and in our schools, seeking to colleagues, including my hon. Friends the Members for advance the lives of our constituents. My message to Rhondda (Chris Bryant), for Pontypridd, for Ogmore the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales is and for Cynon Valley, who have shown that leadership that the UK Government have to step up and do the in their communities. I also pay tribute to the leader of same. Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council, Andrew Morgan, and to all the council workers and emergency 4.49 pm workers who have done us proud in recent weeks. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales At this moment, as we leave the European Union, it is (David T. C. Davies): I thank all Members for their also so important to stand up for the manufacturing contribution to the debate. I will do my utmost to try to sector in Wales, particularly the steel industry. I was sad address as many of those contributions as possible. 579 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Welsh Affairs 580

I thank my friend and constituency neighbour the surrounding areas faced running out of water within hon. Member for Torfaen (Nick Thomas-Symonds) for 12 hours, so 40 tankers were sent in to make sure that his comments. We may disagree on rather a lot, but on water was still pumped into homes—ironically, it came the issue of revolving doors in the Wales Office I stand from England—and there was bottled water ready. The with him 100%. Perhaps at another time we will discuss chief executive of Welsh Water, Peter Perry, did an some of the other issues. absolutely outstanding job. He was on the phone to me, A third member of the Wales Office team has just my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and others been appointed: my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham at all hours of the day and night. He made himself (Sarah Atherton). She has in common with the other available, and I absolutely pay absolute tribute to him two members of the team the fact that she, too, has and to Welsh Water— worn the uniform of the British Army, although I Stephen Kinnock: That is the co-operative model. believe for rather longer than either I or the Secretary of State did, and in a full-time capacity. I thank her for her David T. C. Davies: Sorry? help. Kevin Brennan: It is mutualised. As Minister, I look forward to working closely not only with the Secretary of State but with all Members David T. C. Davies: Indeed, and I will not query that of Parliament from all parties and, of course, Members decision at the moment. I remember that taking place of the Welsh Assembly from all parties. 20 years ago in the Welsh Assembly, and if Members are asking me to praise a nationalised, mutual industry, The hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) I am very happy to do it in the case of Dwˆr Cymru made a powerful contribution, as she always does, and today. I am a pragmatist. channelled her inner Bonnie Tyler. She made a very My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has good point: she achieved a change in the law, not just in obviously been meeting the various people involved, Wales but in the rest of the United Kingdom as well, and we will continue to do that, but I should gently because people were willing to listen to what she had to point out that the leader of Monmouthshire County say, and she was willing to work with members of other Council made it clear to me that he did not want parties. That is something we must continue to do. politicians going into the flooded areas during the I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Preseli emergency. Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb), who will take over as Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee, for his comments. Kevin Brennan: The Minister makes the point that the I am sure that he will do an outstanding job and Prime Minister would have got in the way if he had continue the tradition of ensuring that members of that turned up; is that an implicit criticism of Prince Charles Committee are willing to travel the length and breadth for doing exactly that? of Wales to find out anything that may be of importance David T. C. Davies: Far be it from me to criticise the to that Committee’s inquiries. royal family; that would be a bit above my station. I was Let me turn to the flooding that has devastated simply saying that the leader of Monmouthshire Council Wales. We heard about the issues from my hon. Friend made it clear to me that he did not want me or anyone the Member for Montgomeryshire (Craig Williams) else going into the flooded area while the floodwaters and the hon. Members for Caerphilly (Wayne David), were still there. for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones), for Aberavon (Stephen Let me move on to other matters. The Secretary of Kinnock), for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) and for State for Wales and I have been thinking very carefully Newport East (Jessica Morden). I echo the thanks that about the importance of ensuring that when Wales all Members gave to the emergency services—to the leaves the European Union, we continue working with police, the fire service and the rescue services, including the Welsh Government, the local authorities and businesses, the Royal National Lifeboat Institution, the Severn so that Wales maintains its position at the heart of a Area Rescue Association and others. strengthened United Kingdom. We are looking forward Various Members also mentioned perhaps forgotten to negotiating the cross-border Welsh Marches growth heroes. Like a few other speakers, I pay tribute to local deal, and to developing schemes for improving cross-border authority workers. I was privileged to be able to thank infrastructure. those who helped out recently in Monmouthshire at a My right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West depot, where they had worked 24 hours a day to fill (Mr Jones) spoke about the importance of good broadband, thousands upon thousands of sandbags and get them and compared Pandy Tudur rather unfavourably with out. I have to say that when I got a complaint from the Pitcairn Islands. Some £200 million has been promised one constituent that somebody’s bin had not been put by the UK Government to ensure that areas across the back in the right place in the garden, I had to restrain United Kingdom that are not properly connected become myself from sending a rather strong message, given so, and we recognise the importance of that. Rail what workers in Monmouthshire and across Wales had connectivity was mentioned by the hon. Member for been responsible for. Swansea West (Geraint Davies). Again, I absolutely I also pay tribute to other forgotten heroes: the recognise the general point that he made, but I will have workers of Dwˆr Cymru—Welsh Water.The water treatment to get back to him on the specific point. centre in Monmouth was inundated over that terrible Geraint Davies: Will the Minister address the timetable weekend. As soon as it was safe to do so, Welsh Water issue? went in there and took out all the pumps, dried them out, replaced them, and put in more electrical fittings. David T. C. Davies: Yes, I will get back to the hon. Again, they were working 24 hours a day, although in Gentleman on that point. On the general issue of rail 12-hour shifts. At the same time, Monmouth and its services, as he will know, we are spending £1.4 billion 581 Welsh Affairs 27 FEBRUARY 2020 582

[David T. C. Davies] Crime (West Sandwell) on rail infrastructure over the next control period. We Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House could do even better for connectivity if we could persuade do now adjourn.—(.) colleagues in the Welsh Government to support the M4 relief road, and to accept the borrowing that is being 5 pm offered to them to build that much-needed road. Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con): A few I congratulate the right hon. Member for Dwyfor weeks ago, I stood in this Chamber and stated very Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts), my hon. Friend the clearly that I would not allow the people of West Member for Delyn (Rob Roberts) and the hon. Member Bromwich West to be abandoned again. That is why I for Cynon Valley, who all had in common an attempt to am here today: to fight for them and keep our communities see who could use the most Welsh in the Chamber. safe. I am sure that all of us across the House can agree Dydw i ddim yn siwr pwy sydd wedi ennill y wobr. I will that it is that sense of community—that coming together not push my luck. I was on the Welsh Affairs Committee of people, and the genuine care and compassion we when we changed the rules to allow Welsh to be used at show each other—that makes all our communities all times. It was right that we should do that. We now great. However, the great communities that make up my allow Welsh to be used, of course, in the Welsh Grand constituency are under attack. Committee, and it is quite right that we should do that as well. There is more to be done in the Chamber and My constituents are decent, hard-working and caring around the House of Commons. I would be perfectly people, and one of the benefits of having such a great amenable to supporting further changes and reforms to community is that we are blessed with some fantastic allow Welsh to be used even more widely in the House. community groups, such as the WMA community fitness centre in Tipton, which works to keep young people off Wayne David: Can the hon. Gentleman tell us when the streets and prevent them from falling into crime, the next Welsh Grand Committee will be held? through a variety of martial arts, fitness work and pastoral care. David T. C. Davies: I am told by the Secretary of However,the most recent figures, from December 2019, State that I cannot at the moment, but I am sure that it highlight the battle that we are facing in West Sandwell will be coming soon. more widely. We have seen a sharp rise in anti-social I suspect that I may have left out some hon. Members. behaviour; in burglary; in vehicle, violent and sexual crime; If I did, I apologise. I say to the hon. Member for in drug-related crime; in bike thefts; and in muggings. Gordon (Richard Thomson) that like me, he remembered With just under 100,000 people in my constituency, the the referendum, but I was on the opposing side at the 2019 figures are, quite frankly, shocking: 2,990 violent time. There may be those, as the right hon. Member for and sexual crimes, 1,089 vehicle-related crimes, over Dwyfor Meirionnydd said, who now oppose devolution 1,000 cases of anti-social behaviour,850 cases of burglary, in Wales, but I am certainly not one of them. I recognise and 790 cases of criminal damage and arson. that the people of Wales have spoken not once, but twice on this, and they have made their views very clear. John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): The hon. Gentleman We have a Welsh Assembly, and it has the support of mentioned burglary, but is he also seeing, as we are the people of Wales. It would be utterly wrong for seeing in Warley, aggravated burglary, where people are anyone, in my opinion, to try to undermine the Welsh smashing into homes even when residents are in, terrifying Assembly. That is not something that I or the Secretary and intimidating them, and causing huge fear in the of State for Wales will do. I am pleased to put on record neighbourhood? our support for the principle of having a Welsh Assembly, and of course we will do what we can to ensure that the Shaun Bailey: I agree with the right hon. Gentleman, Government of the Welsh Assembly change. having also seen that in my constituency casework. I As we leave the European Union, we stand on the am sure it is something he sees almost daily in his brink of a new chapter—a potentially glorious chapter—in mailbag. the history of Wales. As we regain control in the United Since the Labour police and crime commissioner for Kingdom of our laws, our borders and our taxpayers’ the west midlands took office in August 2014, we have money, there will be enormous opportunities to ensure seen month-on-month increases in violent crime—we that Wales prospers and develops. I very much look have seen violent crime rise by 175%. For example, in forward to being a part of that. I wish everyone a very August 2014 there were 3,148 violent crimes reported in happy Dydd Gwˆyl Dewi Sant. Diolch yn fawr iawn. the west midlands area, and in December 2019 that figure had risen to over 8,500 incidents, in a single month. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Dydd Gwˆyl Those are astonishing and shocking figures, and they Dewi hapus. cannot be ignored. Question put and agreed to. Nobody—and I mean nobody—should feel unsafe in Resolved, their home or when walking to the shops, or feel concern That this House has considered Welsh affairs. for their children walking to school, or have concerns about their car being vandalised at night, or question whether it is safe to leave their windows open while they sleep. However, that is exactly what I am hearing on the ground, and the statistics very much reflect those concerns. Those concerns are a daily occurrence for many constituents who just want to get on with their lives. 583 Crime (West Sandwell)27 FEBRUARY 2020 Crime (West Sandwell) 584

My constituents are coming to me, as their voice in matter than the safety of residents or boots on the Westminster, and pleading with me to do something street. It simply is not good enough for my residents about the rising levels of crime in West Bromwich West and my communities.This refurbishment is an unnecessary and west Sandwell. I have seen at first hand the pain waste of vital resources that should be pushed to the and anguish that these criminals are bringing to an frontline. I invite the police and crime commissioner to otherwise cohesive, close-knit, welcoming and warm Tipton, one of the most vulnerable communities in our community. This is not simply about reducing numbers area, where the police station has been threatened with on a spreadsheet or grabbing a headline; the consequences closure, to tell the people there why their police station of the current situation are very real and damage the should close but the headquarters can be refurbished. livelihoods of good and honest people. John Spellar: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? I want to share a real-life example that one of my constituents has asked me to use today. Ellie lives in Shaun Bailey: I am afraid that I must make some Wednesbury, in the north of my constituency.She moved progress. to Wednesbury last May and is now nine months pregnant. She was the victim of a burglary at the end of last year, I also ask the PCC to tell people in Wednesbury who around seven months after she first moved in. The have lost their desk service why an office refurbishment perpetrators broke into her partner’s van on 23 December, should be the priority. I thank my good friend Jay Singh- just two days before Christmas. They took over £1,000- Sohal, the Conservative candidate for West Midlands worth of tools, and the damage to the van was so bad police and crime commissioner, for his steadfast support that it had to be written off. Ellie’s partner relies on the and leadership in the campaign to keep Tipton police van and his tools for his livelihood; that is how he station open, as well as a review of provision in Wednesbury. provides for his family. Jay has proven that he is a strong friend of the communities in my constituency, and I look forward to working with Ellie has told me that she has experienced two other him as we continue this fight. attempted break-ins since she moved to Wednesbury I am fully aware that crime is changing, as is the way just last May, and her and her partner’s lives have had to we react and deal with crimes. revolve around checking the CCTV daily. I ask all Members to think about that for a second. Expecting John Spellar: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? parents should be thinking about baby names and decorating the baby’s room, deciding on the nappy Shaun Bailey: I really do need to make some progress. changing rota and generally celebrating the new life that I have been impressed by the efforts of police forces they will be welcoming into this world. Instead, Ellie across the country to focus on cyber-crime, recruiting and her partner are spending their time checking the special police officers to deal with cyber-crime and CCTV system out of fear that somebody has been tackling the new ways in which crime has developed, trying to break into their vehicle and their home. I will particularly in the west midlands. But I am sure that not allow this to go on. I am intervening today because what our constituents want to see is community-based I was sent here to fight for people like Ellie and her policing. soon-to-be-born baby,whose voices have not been listened to for too long. As a result of the situation, tragically John Spellar: More coppers. Ellie has told me that she does not feel that she can stay in Wednesbury once her baby is born, so she is moving Shaun Bailey: It is as if the right hon. Gentleman can away with her partner and their family. read my mind. Community-based policing means boots If we want to revive communities such as Wednesbury, on the ground, just as he says from a sedentary position, Tipton and Oldbury, we need to ensure that they are but it also means buildings and a real estate strategy, as safe for people to live in so that families can settle there, well as fostering community engagement—another core feel safe there and want to contribute to our society. I point. know that this Government and the Minister are committed How we manage the roles of police officers in our to tackling rising crime, wherever it rears its head. communities also needs to change. Police officers tell However, we need to remember that what we are talking me that they do not just want to be the last response about is not solely the responsibility of national and final line of defence. In fact, they want to reclaim Government. Shockingly, the response from our local the position that they feel they have lost, of being at the Labour police and crime commissioner to these very core and centre of the community.That means encouraging real concerns has been to consider closing a further and allowing police officers to get themselves out there, three police stations in west Sandwell—in Oldbury, a whether by sitting in their local café, going around their town that I share with the right hon. Member for local shop, carrying on going into our local schools or, Warley (John Spellar), in Wednesbury, where Ellie lives, yes, simply walking up and down the high street on the and in Tipton. How the conclusion was reached that beat. We need to allow police officers the freedom to that was the right decision, I am not entirely sure. come out from behind the desk and to be out there in The response I have received when I have had a frank the community. I have been encouraged by conversations discussion about this issue is, “By closing the buildings that I have had recently with people from a range of we can put more officers on the street”. On the face of forces, a range of police and crime commissioners and a it, that sounds like a sensible proposition. However, it is range of chief constables. With the adoption of new certainly not an either/or, considering that the PCC has technologies, and innovative ways of thinking and working, taken the decision to invest £33 million in the refurbishment we can get back to this grassroots policing. of Lloyd House, the headquarters of West Midlands This is also about continuing and building on the police. It is slightly baffling to me that the refurbishment amazing network of neighbourhood and street watch of an office could be even a slightly more pressing schemes. I pay tribute to these groups in my constituency, 585 Crime (West Sandwell)27 FEBRUARY 2020 Crime (West Sandwell) 586

[Shaun Bailey] 5.13 pm particularly the Tividale street watch group. I visited The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the them two weeks ago and hope to be out on patrol with Home Department (Victoria Atkins): I congratulate my them soon. Those groups are stepping up and doing an hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West amazing job by engaging with our award-winning (Shaun Bailey) on securing this important debate and neighbourhood policing teams in west Sandwell. It is speaking with such passion about the impact of crime fantastic to see the strides that they are making. But we in his constituency. He set out very clearly the promise need to ensure that the resource is there, because, as I he made to his constituents on his election. I, for one, am sure all Members will agree, they cannot be their think he is very much delivering on that promise. own private police force. They should not have to be. My hon. Friend eloquently set out the corrosive and These people are civilians—normal human beings. Why devastating impact of crime. People have the right to should they have to be acting like a private police force? feel safe when they visit their local high street, walk While my contribution today has focused more on home, or go to sleep at night. the gritty and harsh reality of what my communities The Prime Minister has made it clear that keeping face on a day-to-day basis, I am optimistic about the our streets safe is an absolute priority for this Government. future. I know that we can solve the issues I have We have taken swift action to tackle crime on multiple highlighted—because, quite frankly, we have to. The fronts, with clear priorities of addressing serious violence, 20,000 new recruits that we will see across the country homicide and neighbourhood crime. Weare also investing are a welcome and vital addition to our community. heavily in policing, enabling the biggest increase in The Government’s wider commitment to protecting our police funding in a decade and the largest recruitment officers on the beat— drive in many more. The Prime Minister promised that, and like my hon. Friend, he is delivering on his John Spellar: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? promise. While there is no shortcut to solving crime, this Shaun Bailey: Yes, as the right hon. Gentleman has people’s Government have the commitment and resolve been so persistent. to see this through. We will maintain a relentless focus on cutting crime and addressing its root causes. We will John Spellar: Is it not true that that we have lost well see extra police officers on the streets and support law over 2,000 officers and will get just over 1,000 back, enforcement to deliver innovative approaches that keep whereas Surrey is getting an increase on its baseline? them a step ahead of these fast-evolving criminal groups. Were not the cuts by the right hon. Member for Maidenhead Wemust protect the most vulnerable, invest in safeguarding (Mrs May) when she was Home Secretary absolutely and support those at greatest risk of becoming victims devastating in the west midlands? or offenders. Shaun Bailey: I have a lot of respect for the right hon. Gentleman, but let us look at the reasons why those cuts John Spellar: Can the Minister tell us when those were made. Quite frankly, it is all summed up by the police will be on the streets of the west midlands and individual he is backing to be the Mayor of the west how many there will be? midlands, who left the note to say there was no money left. I assure this House that we will be working to Victoria Atkins: The right hon. Gentleman is surpassing ensure that he does not do to the west midlands what he himself today—I am just about to move on to that, did to this country. because it was the first question asked by my hon. On the 20,000 new recruits, I have three asks for my Friend the Member for West Bromwich West. We have hon. Friend the Minister. First, I want her to reaffirm pledged to recruit an additional 20,000 officers, which the Government’s commitment to ensuring that they we believe sends a clear message that we are committed will use their influence to encourage PCCs to deploy to giving police the resources they need to tackle the those extra police officers in the areas that need them. I scourge of crime. West Midlands police will receive up am sure we can all agree across this House that we need to £620.8 million in funding in 2020-21—an increase of to be maximising where they are deployed. Although up to £49.6 million on the previous year. To put that in that is a decision for our local police forces, hopefully context, it is an increase of 8.7%, which is the third the Government can intervene on that. Secondly, I hope highest in the country. This year alone, West Midlands that she will reaffirm the Government’s commitment to police will benefit from 366 more police officers, but we community-based policing whereby we work with all make it clear that this is the first tranche in a three-year our stakeholders to ensure that police are once again programme. embedded at the heart of our communities. Finally, I Forces have been given a generous funding settlement hope that she will meet me and other stakeholders in in order to provide for the associated costs alongside west Sandwell to discuss how we can ensure that police new officers, such as additional cars, estate equipment forces have the tools and support they need to operate and uniforms, and give them what they need to tackle and to keep our communities safe. crime. How and where in each force those officers are As I said in my maiden speech, I was brought up to deployed is a decision to be made by the local chief believe that we have a duty to speak out for those who constable, but I note my hon. Friend’s encouragement cannot speak out for themselves, and I wanted to ensure for central Government to get involved. I suspect that that Ellie, her unborn baby and the rest of my constituents he will be a very good advocate for his constituency, to were heard loud and clear by this Government. Our ensure that it sees the benefit of those new officers and community is vulnerable. I hope that my constituents the extra funding. Fundamentally, this is about tackling will see that I am keeping my promise to them. crime. The uplift programme provides the opportunity 587 Crime (West Sandwell)27 FEBRUARY 2020 Crime (West Sandwell) 588 to ensure that we have the officers that policing needs to communities. Preventing and tackling serious violence respond to the increase in demand and to take a proactive is a matter for law enforcement—of course it is—but we response to tackling and preventing crime. also need to find long-term solutions to the problem My hon. Friend asked about community and and to tackle the root causes. Werecognise the importance neighbourhood policing. Local policing fulfils two essential of effective partnership working across the wide range functions: responding to calls for service and preventing of professions that must work together to bear down on crime and harm. It is also the key vehicle for building this problem. legitimacy through community engagement and public To support this, we are introducing the serious confidence. The College of Policing published guidelines violence Bill, which will create a new duty on a range of on modernising neighbourhood policing in March 2018. specified agencies—the police, local government, youth The Home Office contributed to the guidelines, which offending, health and probation—to work collaboratively, cover a variety of topics, including engaging communities, share data and information, and put in place plans to solving problems, targeting activity and promoting the prevent and reduce serious violence within their local right culture. communities. That is all good work, but we want to build on We invested £100 million in 2019-20, through the it, because two of the crime types that are at the heart of serious violence fund, for the 18 police force areas most neighbourhood policing are, sadly, acquisitive crime and affected by serious violence. Of this, £7.62 million was vehicle crime. The Government recognise the distress and allocated to the West Midlands to pay for a surge in disruption that acquisitive crimes can cause. Indeed, my police operational activity. Only yesterday, the Home hon. Friend set out clearly the experiences of his constituent Secretary announced a further just under £5 million for Ellie and her partner, and the longer-term consequences the West Midlands, as a provisional allocation in an for the family’s livelihood and wellbeing. Residential overall announcement of £41.5 million for police surge burglary is a particularly invasive crime that can have a funding in the year 2020-21. West Midlands will lasting impact on its victims, and vehicle theft can also provisionally be allocated this as one of the 18 force have a real impact, particularly on those who rely on areas worst affected by serious violence. their vans, scooters and other vehicles to earn a living. A further £3.37 million has been invested in developing We are committed to driving down those crimes and the West Midlands violence reduction unit. On 29 December making our communities safer. One way in which we 2019, the Home Secretary announced a further £35 million will achieve that is through our £25 million safer streets to continue funding these units. The West Midlands fund, which will support the communities who are VRUhas been allocated another £3.37 million for 2020-21 disproportionately affected by acquisitive crime to to continue to tackle the root causes of serious violence. implement crime-prevention initiatives such as improved Indeed, when I joined officers out and about in Birmingham street lighting and home security. The principle behind a few months ago, I was very pleased to meet some of the fund is that policing cannot deliver this on their the people setting up that important unit in my hon. own. We need to engage neighbourhoods in the package Friend’s local constabulary area. of measures to have success in local areas. We are My hon. Friend asked me the very difficult question— encouraging bids to the fund not only to be developed question 3—of whether I would meet him and his in partnership with local communities but to include constituents in his constituency, and I would be delighted community-focused elements—for example, building to do so. I would be delighted to visit him in his support and engagement in the proposed interventions, constituency so that I can see for myself the issues that or direct funding for community groups to undertake he and his constituents are facing. I thank him very prevention activities themselves. much for the opportunity to listen to and discuss the We have made it clear that, although police and crime particular issues facing his constituency. I will of course commissioners are the lead bidders, they are encouraged continue to reflect on them in considering the Government’s to work in partnership with a wide range of local approach in the future. I have no doubt that my hon. organisations to ensure that local priorities are addressed Friend will continue to raise these issues with continued and local communities are engaged. The application passion and determination. process for the fund is currently open, and I would Finally, I wish my hon. Friend’s constituent Ellie and encourage my hon. Friend to work with the police and her partner all the very best with the happy arrival, I crime commissioner,his local police force and community hope, of their cherished baby. groups to develop and submit a bid or bids to the fund Question put and agreed to. before its closing date of 20 March. My hon. Friend raised the issue of serious violence. Again, we understand and recognise the terrible impact 5.24 pm that serious violence has on local neighbourhoods and House adjourned.

163WH 27 FEBRUARY 2020 School Admissions Process 164WH

Let us look at some of that evidence. Today, the Westminster Hall Sutton Trust released an important new report assessing inequalities in the schools admission process, called Thursday 27 February 2020 “School Places: A Fair Choice?”. It finds high levels of socioeconomic segregation across schools and a marked gap in academic quality between schools attended by [MS KAREN BUCK in the Chair] poor and by non-poor pupils. Weoften hear the argument that better-off parents are just more proactive about School Admissions Process getting their children into good schools. The Sutton Trust research demonstrates that, in fact, parents across 1.30 pm the socioeconomic spectrum make choices based on academic quality. The report found that those families Kate Osamor (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): I beg to eligible for free school meals make as many choices as move, richer families about the quality of school and about That this House has considered the effectiveness of the school whether to choose a local school. admissions process. The report concludes that it is the school allocation It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, system, rather than parental preferences, that means Ms Buck—for the very first time, I believe. that children of wealthier families do better. In other I applied for today’s debate not only because the words, inequalities in schools admissions exist because topic is of national importance, but because of the of how places are allocated, not because of how parents issues that my constituents have brought to me in recent choose. The Government have based their whole education weeks. Two weeks ago, the parents of one boy in my policy for the past decade on the mantra of promoting constituency came to me, beside themselves and at their choice, but it turns out that it is the supply side of wits’ end. To protect the identities of the child and the schooling, not the demand side, that is the problem. family, I will call the boy John. On the supply side of school places, the arguments John used to attend one of the schools in my constituency. are well rehearsed. On this side of the House, the He was on track, he played football and he learnt judo, Labour party favours universal equal access and creating but after his mock exams things went downhill and he more high-quality places. We said in our last election started misbehaving. Eventually, he was sent to a pupil manifesto that we would consider proposals for integrating referral unit and excluded for three months. John’s private schools into a better state school system. We father told me that during those three months, he essentially said that we would end the fragmentation and marketisation became another person: he was arrested and charged of our school system by bringing free schools and for robbery and he received a community service order. academies back under the control of the people who John kept trying to turn his life back around and had know them best—parents, teachers and local communities. a job for a year, but his parents saw him withdraw. It Let us be honest: parents feel there are not enough soon became clear that he was caught up with a bad good places for children. According to the latest figures crowd, with drugs and with gangs. In July last year, like published this week by the Office of the Schools other vulnerable children in Edmonton, he went missing. Adjudicator,the number of children being home-schooled John was assaulted and only came back to his family in England has just risen by 13% to 60,000. The real four months later. He now faces another court case. His number may be much higher. I ask the Minister whether parents say that he stays in his room. They fear that his the Government accept that in many parts of the country mental health is dwindling fast and that he might harm there are simply not enough high-quality school places himself. John’s parents do not excuse the things he has available for parents to choose from, and what steps the done, but they love their child. They want him to be Department is taking to correct that. safe, and they wonder whether things could have been different had the school not excluded him so quickly. Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op): One Sadly, the story of John and his parents is not simple change that would help to create a sufficiency of uncommon. It is being repeated all over the country, places would be for the Government to allow local time and again. All across my constituency, parents authorities to build schools directly again. There is a know a simple truth: whether, how and where a child is lack of schools, the process now to create new schools is admitted to school, and whether they are excluded from difficult and schools do not always get built in the right it, can set them on very different paths in life. In recent places. Local authorities, as admissions bodies, know months, growing numbers of parents have come to me, where the schools are needed. saying how hard they are finding it to access decent school places in Enfield. Across the borough, we are losing too many vulnerable children to crime and gangs. Kate Osamor: I thank my hon. Friend for that important Our pupil referral units and the wider education system point; I shall express my support for that later on in my are failing them. speech. The lives of those individuals affected are ultimately The new research from the Sutton Trust also highlights why today’s debate matters so much. I called for it the perverse incentives of school accountability systems because I know many hon. Members who are not here that have developed under this Government. Both league today but who, had they been able to attend, would tables and the Ofsted system encourage too many schools have scrutinised with me the schools that this Government and academies to take on advantaged children and ignore have built. The Government have now been in power for disadvantaged children in the interests of scoring highly. the past decade, and I hope that the Minister will back I ask the Minister whether this new Government will look up his defence of their record with firm evidence. again at the incentives in our school accountability system. 165WH School Admissions Process27 FEBRUARY 2020 School Admissions Process 166WH

[Kate Osamor] and Enfield and she spoke with real passion and power about the situation of her constituent John. There is The Sutton Trust has today made important and nothing more powerful than bringing the real-life lived considered new proposals for making the schools admissions experience of your constituents to the heart of democracy system fairer. They include marginal ballots, expanding in Westminster, and she has done that with aplomb and the use of banding tests, prioritising applicants eligible passion today. for the pupil premium and simplifying conditions for This has been an interesting-themed week. We had a demonstrating religious observance for applicants to very similar debate on exclusions yesterday, when a religious schools. Will the Government say today what number of London MPs in particular were talking they make of those options, and will they commit to about how exclusions ruin the life chances of young examining them closely? people. They fall into criminal gangs and county lines The incentives that our Government set for schools behaviours and are lost to our system, for a number of matter, not just for admissions but for exclusions. The reasons. It is interesting that we are back here today scandal of off-rolling, whereby schools still willingly talking about admissions. exclude pupils too quickly just to improve their academic I have been badly impacted by the market-driven performance, is appalling. The Government must end it admissions system in my own constituency. Just today, once and for all. Will the Minister consider making the Secretary of State has backed a decision to close schools accountable for the outcomes of pupils who leave Newall Green High School in my constituency. I am their rolls and removing the perverse incentives that let absolutely outraged by that, having written to the Secretary pupils such as my constituent John fall through the system? of State and the Prospere Learning Trust; they together I will conclude with a note of caution about the have made the decision to close the high school. I have illusion of choice that the Government are giving people. stood to shoulder with both parents and pupils Just this week, the schools admissions watchdog released to try to maintain the viability of the school—not just figures in its annual report showing that in the past year, recently, but over a number of years. It is short-sighted two out of every five complaints it received were about on the part of the Government. They have rejected access to grammar schools—but those complaints were sensible, pragmatic proposals from Manchester City from privileged parents about grammar schools enrolling Council, which wanted to keep the school open and was disadvantaged children. Any parent will know that people prepared to put substantial revenue into the project. want the best for their child, but I am extremely concerned The city council has not had the courtesy of a response that the reintroduction of selective grammar schools from the Secretary of State. My hon. Friend the Member under this Government is encouraging support for for Leeds North West (Alex Sobel) talked eloquently inequality. It is giving only an illusion of choice, and we about this issue in his intervention: why are councils so need to ask ourselves whether it may be turning parents driven away from the schools process? They are responsible of advantaged children against disadvantaged families, for spatial frameworks, responsible for admissions to a who are being blamed for the lack of good school places. degree and responsible for the welfare of every child, I worry that the Government have introduced but we do not seem to think that they are fit to be part competition among parents without creating the new of the school system. I will continue campaigning against school places to go with it and are passing that off as the unjust decision in my constituency. “choice”. That is turning society against itself and Schools matter. Pupils’ academic outcomes are heavily dividing parents and communities. Should we not be influenced by the school that they attend. Academic putting all our efforts in this country into strengthening achievement in turn strongly influences life chances. our whole public education system and creating high-quality The effectiveness of the school that a student attends new places, rather than encouraging a brutal race to the can have lifelong implications. All state-funded schools top for a lucky few while letting others, such as John, in England are subject to the school admissions code. fall through the cracks? I look forward to hearing the Schools and local authorities must follow the statutory Minister’s speech. guidance when carrying out duties relating to school admissions. That should mean that all school admission 1.40 pm policies are fair and transparent, but that is often not Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): It is the case, as has been pointed out today. Some schools a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Buck. act as their own admissions authority and so set their We have something in common. I was recruited to the own criteria, subject to the code. Voluntary-aided and Labour movement in the mid-1980s by someone who I foundation schools have been able to do that for some think was a great mentor to both of us—Alf Morris, time, but the rapid expansion of academies under this who was the MP for Wythenshawe between 1964 and Government means that thousands of schools can now 1997. The reason I bring that up is that 2020 is the determine their own admissions policy. 50th anniversary of his seminal private Member’s Bill The problems are obvious. First, there is no single that became the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons body responsible for ensuring that admission policies Act 1970, which was the first such legislation anywhere comply with the code. Secondly, schools can engage in on the planet and has influenced legislators all over the back-door selection. On paper the admissions policy world in recognising the rights of disabled people. I looks compliant; in practice a school may be unlawfully look forward later in the year to a calendar of events selecting or rejecting certain pupils. Schools may do celebrating his great work. It is therefore a real pleasure that because they believe that certain pupils might to serve under you, Ms Buck. adversely impact on their academic results and hence I thank and congratulate my hon. Friend the Member their position in the school league tables, with knock-on for Edmonton (Kate Osamor) on securing the debate. impacts on their Ofsted results. That was a key argument She is an absolutely tremendous advocate for Edmonton yesterday when we talked about school exclusions. Tens 167WH School Admissions Process27 FEBRUARY 2020 School Admissions Process 168WH of thousands of young people are off-rolled annually from incentives on schools to actively seek children from our schools. In fact, evidence from the Education Policy disadvantaged backgrounds. That is particularly the Institute that I cited yesterday showed that 69,000 young case with the pupil premium. It pays £935 per pupil in a people were excluded from school in 2017 alone. We do secondary school and £1,320 per pupil in a primary not know the reasons why. My hon. Friend the Member school. And of course in the national funding formula for Edmonton makes the point that schools should be weallocatedsignificantsumstochildrenfromdisadvantaged responsible, even when children are off-rolled or excluded, backgrounds. for their future welfare. That has been clearly stated in In relation to the school admissions system, only our party policy, but has the support of many hon. about 1% of schools are referred to the Office of the Members on both sides of the House. Schools Adjudicator, which administers the school Selective admissions such as those I have described admissions system to ensure that they are fair. Anyone result in discrimination against certain categories of pupils, can object, if they think the admissions arrangements including those with special educational needs and are unfair, but only 1% of schools are referred to the disabilities, those with English as an additional language Office of the Schools Adjudicator. In her annual report, and those from disadvantaged backgrounds.Children from Shan Scott, the chief schools adjudicator, said that it disadvantaged families attend schools that have a much was lower proportion of children achieving the benchmark of “an admissions system that as a whole works effectively in the at least good grades at GCSE. The average score for that normal admissions rounds and that in those rounds the needs of cohort was 59%. That is 6.9 percentage points below the vulnerable children and those with particular educational or cohort of non-poor pupils. It is a substantial difference. social needs are generally well met.” My hon. Friend referred to the research in a Sutton We are concerned about children in need who are Trust report released today. It states that half of all known to social workers and seek their support. That is secondary school headteachers say that social segregation what our review of children in need was about. Our is a problem in state schools, yet more than 40% of forthcoming changes to the school admissions code them do not consider the socioeconomic make-up of focus on in-year admissions and the fair access protocols, their communities when developing their admissions to ensure that they work better for the most vulnerable policies. When children are allocated to schools that are children, including children who have been excluded. over-subscribed—higher performing schools—the criteria Our system is producing more good school places, that they use often favour the wealthy. We have a system which has been the thrust of everything that we have in which whoever can afford to live near the good done with our school reforms since 2010. The academies school has a much higher chance of getting in. That programme has been at the heart of this Government’s results in high levels of socioeconomic segregation across reforms. Today, over 50% of pupils in state-funded our school estate. education study in academies, the number of which has I welcome the second report that the Sutton Trust has grown from 203 in 2010 to over 9,000 today. Our vision published, which makes several detailed and considered is for a world-class school-led system, which gives proposals for dealing with the injustices of our current headteachers the freedom to run their schools in the system. It shows that there is clear support for a review way they know best. We believe that the academies of admission policy, which would be overseen most programme can provide opportunities for that through effectively by local authorities. Through that approach, its key principles: autonomy, accountability and a level of coherence, fairness and trust could be restored collaboration. Therefore, we do not agree with Labour’s to how we provide for our young people locally in their policy to bring academies under political control or schools. with its hostility to the free schools programme. I will finish by asking the Minister to now look again Some 75% of sponsored primary and secondary at school admissions policies and address the segregation academies that have been inspected are now good or to enable a more mixed and balanced student population outstanding. Those are sponsored academies, which are in our schools and to truly level the playing field for our schools that have underperformed for years. Only one nations’ young people. in 10 of those schools were judged good or outstanding before they became sponsored academies. Pupils at those schools are getting a significantly better quality of 1.47 pm education thanks to that academies programme. The Minister for School Standards (): It is a Through the free schools programme, this Government pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Buck. I have funded thousands of good new school places and congratulate the hon. Member for Edmonton (Kate opened schools across the country, and we are committed Osamor) on securing the debate and on her excellent to delivering choice, innovation and higher standards opening speech. for parents. We want it to challenge the status quo and I listened carefully to what she had to say, and she said drive wider improvement, injecting fresh, evidence-based that there are not enough high-quality school places in approaches into our education systems. Free schools our system. I have to say to her that we have raised the are created to meet the need for pupil places in areas proportion of schools graded by Ofsted as good or that need them and to address the concern about low- outstanding from just 68% in 2010 to 86% today, and in quality provision. the period between May 2010 and May 2018 we created 920,000 more places in our school system. We have also Kate Osamor: The Minister says that the Government changed the admissions code to allow schools to prioritise are providing enough spaces for parents and their children. in their admissions arrangements, their over-subscription If there are enough spaces of high quality for all parents, criteria, children who are eligible for free school meals, why has the number of children in home schooling gone those who qualify for the pupil premium, so there are up by 13%? 169WH School Admissions Process27 FEBRUARY 2020 School Admissions Process 170WH

Nick Gibb: We are also concerned about the increase We have an effective admissions system to ensure that in the number of children in elective home education. schools and parents are supported when school places That is why we issued a call for evidence on home are allocated. All mainstream state-funded schools, education and we are looking at it carefully. We have including academy schools, are required to comply with consulted on the proposal to create a register of children the school admissions code, which is designed to ensure not in school. A range of factors have led to the that the practices and criteria used to decide the allocation increase, but in my judgment, it is not due to a shortage of school places are clear, fair and objective. The code is of high-quality school places in our school system. clear that admissions authorities must ensure that their As of 1 February, 508 free schools are open, providing arrangements will not unfairly disadvantage, either directly 275,000 school places. In 2019, the top seven of the or indirectly, a child from a particular social or racial top 15 progress 8 scores for state-funded schools in group, or a child with a disability or special educational England were achieved by free schools, and three of needs. It is for a school’s admission authority to set its those schools were in the top five: Eden Boys’ School in own admission arrangements, provided that they are Birmingham, Eden Girls’ School in Coventry and the lawful. For community and voluntary control schools, Michaela Community School. Each of those successful the admission authority is the local authority; for foundation schools teaches a stretching knowledge-rich curriculum, and voluntary-aided schools, it is the governing body; has a strong approach to behaviour management and is and for academies, it is the academy trust. committed to high academic standards. For normal admissions rounds, parents can apply to This morning I visited West London Free School, for the local authority in which they live for places at their the second or third time. It has an excellent quality of preferred schools. Parents can express a preference for education and superb behaviour. I was hugely impressed at least three schools. If a school is undersubscribed, by what I saw. There were very high quality lessons in any parent who applies must be offered a place. When music and arts. Over 80% of pupils there enter the oversubscribed, a school’s admissions authority must EBacc combination of GCSEs. Eden Boys’ School and rank applications in order against its published over- Eden Girls’ School were opened by Star Academies, subscription criteria. Parents then receive a single offer which has grown through the free schools programme of a place at the highest preference school that is able to from running a single school in the north-west to running offer their child a place. If a local authority is unable to 28 schools across the country. Ark John Keats Academy offer a place at any of the parents’ preferred schools, it is an outstanding open free school. In 2019 its progress 8 will offer a place at a suitable school. The latest report score was well above average at 0.76 and 82% of students from the offers of the schools adjudicator, published on entered the EBacc. Monday, states that we do have an admissions system At Michaela Community School, 84% of pupils were that works effectively in those normal rounds, as I have entered for the EBacc, and in its first set of GCSE said earlier. results, the school reported that more than half of all grades awarded were level 7 and above, which is equivalent The latest preference data confirms that the admissions to A and A*. That school serves a very disadvantaged system is working well for most families. In 2019, 97.5% of community. The London Academy of Excellence is a applicants were offered one of their top three preferred free school sixth form in east London that was set up in primary schools and 93% of applicants were offered collaboration with seven independent schools. In 2019, one of their top three preferred secondary schools. In the school had an average A-level progress score well the London Borough of Enfield, the hon. Lady’s local above average. It recently reported that 37 students authority, 95.8% of applicants were offered one of their received offers to study at Oxford and Cambridge. top three preferred primary schools and 85.5% were King’s College London Mathematics School is a specialist offered one of their top three preferred secondary schools maths free school. In 2019, 100% of its pupils achieved in 2019. an A or A*. We understand that where demand is high, parents Mike Kane: We are having a debate on admissions. I cannot always secure a place at their preferred choice of think the Minister has strayed some way off his brief. school, but parents refused a place at a school for which Perhaps his civil servants have given him the wrong they have applied have a right of appeal to an independent speech today. Perhaps he could get back to addressing appeal panel. The schools admission authority is responsible admissions. for establishing that appeal panel, but the panel itself is an independent body. The admission authority has no Ms Karen Buck (in the Chair): Please stay on the topic control over its decisions. The appeal panel must come of debate. to its own conclusions. Nick Gibb: Thank you, Ms Buck. I was addressing the concern raised at the start that there are not enough I am grateful to the hon. Member for Edmonton for high-quality school places, whereas we have been focused introducing the debate. It is timely, because next Monday on creating more good school places, because that is a will be national offer day, when thousands of parents key part of our education reforms. However, I will adhere up and down the country will hear what school their to your strictures, Ms Buck, and address the statutory child will go to in September. We want all children to duty to provide enough school places, which sits with have fair access to a good school place, regardless of local government. The Government provide basic need their background. Academies and free schools create a funding for every place that is needed based on the healthy choice for parents, while raising standards in statistics supplied by the local authority. The local education. The school admissions system, underpinned council of the hon. Member for Edmonton, the London by the statutory school admissions code, supports the Borough of Enfield, has been allocated £122.7 million system effectively, providing the tools that schools need to provide new school places between 2011 and 2021. to allocate places in a fair and objective way. 171WH School Admissions Process 27 FEBRUARY 2020 172WH

1.59 pm Construction Industry: Cash Retentions Kate Osamor: The Minister did not answer all my questions. Is he prepared to receive a letter from me? [STEVE MCCABE in the Chair] Nick Gibb: Or we could meet. 3 pm Kate Osamor: I appreciate that. It is a very important Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP): I beg issue to my constituents. I am sure that I will speak to to move, the Minister about admissions again. That this House has considered the use of cash retentions in Question put and agreed to. the construction industry. Resolved, It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, That this House has considered the effectiveness of the school Mr McCabe. We all know the procedure for Westminster admissions process. Hall—you know it better than I do, Mr McCabe. I move the motion and, at the end, everybody agrees that this 2 pm House has considered the matter. In this case, however, Sitting suspended. the subject matter has been considered several times, yet for some reason the Government choose to do nothing about it, which becomes ever more frustrating. Small companies continue to suffer cash-flow issues because of late payment by retention or,even worse, non-payment, often because of insolvency of the larger company. I intend to focus on the lack of Government action, but I should first explain what a cash retention is. An October 2017 report by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and Pye Tait Consulting defined a cash retention as “a sum of money withheld from the payments of a construction sector project in order to mitigate the risk that such projects are not completed…to the required quality standard.” Effectively, a retention is a cash bond withheld by the main contractor to cover any snagging defects in an agreed maintenance period of one to two years, and is intended as a lever to hold subcontractors to their legal contractual obligements to make good any defects in a set timeframe. The typical value is 5% of the works, which can create significant cash-flow issues. At any one time, it is estimated that in England alone, between £3 billion and £6 billion of retention money is withheld. There is a logic to the origin of cash retentions, however, as an insurance policy or bond to ensure that work is completed to the desired standard. Of course, at one time, the only way to operate contracts was the use of cash, so there is a historical logic. I fully understand, having worked in the construction industry, that retaining half of the retention money until the works are initially completed, and then releasing it, is a good incentive to ensure that work is done without leaving odds and ends. I also realise that during the snagging period, it can be hard to get a subcontractor back on site immediately to rectify snagging issues, because they have moved on to other projects and their resources are allocated elsewhere. On the whole, however, the subcontractor will always return to remedy defects at their own cost, as per the contractual terms and conditions. As the retention money is seldom required to pay for snagging issues, it is due to be paid to the subcontractor at the end of a defect period. That is when subcontractors expect the money owed to them to be released. History also shows us problems with cash-based retentions.Too often and for various reasons, the retentions are not released in a timely manner, or even worse, are not released at all. The most common reason for non-release is a company going into liquidation, but if the subbies fully comply with the terms and conditions in their 173WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 174WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions [Alan Brown] of retentions not being paid in the previous three years due to insolvency. In addition, 50% of contractors had contracts, why should their money not be released in a their cash flow affected over the previous three years timely manner? Why, in the 21st century, are we dealing when their retentions were held, while they did not hold with unprotected cash retentions? retention money themselves. Looking at the issue in the The worst recent high-level example of the effects of round, half of solvent contractors still suffer cash-flow lost retentions was the collapse of Carillion in January issues because cash retentions are withheld. It should be 2018. Estimates of lost cash for companies are in the noted that in more extreme cases, retention money is region of £250 million to £500 million. Just think how withheld for years. Why, in the face of such blatant many small and medium-sized companies went bust as evidence of those harmful effects,have the UK Government a consequence? How many training opportunities were not taken action? lost because of the resulting cash-flow issues? How To illustrate the scale of the problem, the credit many subcontractors just decided that enough was enough, management company Creditsafe recently reported that packed up and got out of the game? 22 construction companies went bust in January 2020 alone. A further 158 firms were involved in varying John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): The knock-on effect is stages of liquidation. Creditsafe predicts 4,000 construction even worse than that. The great long chains of insolvencies in 2020. That underlines the need for action. subcontractors mean that a company that was not even Beyond the cash-flow issues, additional effects of involved on the site may be dependent on getting payment, withholding retentions include further insolvencies; job for a completely different project, from the company in losses; cuts to training budgets and the inability to take liquidation. The ripple effect, which basically undermines on new apprentices; resources being wasted to chase up the ecosystem of our construction industry, has been late payments, which leads to higher overheads for the considerable over many years. company, an impact on productivity and unpaid hours Alan Brown: I fully agree with the right hon. Gentleman; for a non-chargeable activity; a possible inability for that ripple effect can go all the way down to builders’ some companies to bid for other retention-based contracts merchants and those who supply goods. It has a massive or to expand because of cash-flow issues; and, if pressure effect and we need the UK Government to do something bites, a desire to cut corners in other jobs to try to claw about it. back money. Following the Grenfell tragedy, Dame Judith Hackitt’s “Building a Safer Future” report said I highlighted Carillion, and a further disparity is that for public sector contracts, for which tier 1 contractors “Payment terms within contracts (for example, retentions) can drive poor behaviours, by putting financial strain into the supply are engaged, retention money is safe because the public chain. For example non-payment of invoices and consequent cash sector will not go bust. Retention might cause tier 1 flow issues can cause subcontractors to substitute materials purely contractors some cash-flow issues, but their money is on price rather than value for money or suitability for purpose.” protected. In the case of Carillion, however, public There is of course a human element to this, because sector clients will have retained Carillion’s retention cash pressures bring personal stress. An industry survey money, which effectively included the subcontractors’ before Christmas revealed that 90% of SME owners retention money. The subcontractors cannot get that and senior managers were experiencing mental health money because they are legally creditors of Carillion. issues, ranging from stress and anxiety to suicidal thoughts. That shows an imbalance in the procurement process, Cash-flow issues clearly contribute to that stress. because there is no regulation or guidance on how retention moneys are held or protected. If an employer John Spellar: Is there not an additional factor here? enters into insolvency before the retention money is We have seen this: in any upsurge in demand, the paid, the money is used to pay off creditors first—that construction industry has to go abroad for companies is why changes are required. and skilled labour. The United Kingdom economy suffers In addition to the potential £500 million Carillion a real loss in capacity, which impacts on private and retention loss, the Specialist Engineering Contractors public contracts, so the Government and in particular Group estimates that, in the last four years, £670 million the Treasury should have a real interest in resolving this. of cash retentions has been lost to upstream insolvency, Unfortunately, there does not seem to be much of a so for small and medium-sized enterprises, more than sense of urgency about solving it. £1 billion has been lost in the system in that time. That highlights the need for Government action. Alan Brown: Again, I agree with the right hon. A micro-sized electrical business in the west of Scotland, Gentleman’s intervention, and I thank him for it. Apart which held a subcontract with Carillion, lost £40,000 in from the skills issue in the UK, it is another reason why retention money when Carillion collapsed. Carillion’s we use labour from abroad, as he said. Also, we have relied client was the Ministry of Defence, which, ironically, on EU labour, but now the UK Government are ending did not hold retention money from Carillion. Carillion, free movement, so that will cause another issue and however, took retention from the guys working for it. certainly underlines why we need to resolve the matter. That subcontractor was lucky to survive, but could only If the late release of retentions is such an issue, why do so by using reserves to plug the shortfall, cutting do the sub-contractors not do something about it, such back on training, and cancelling plans to take on an as adjudication or arbitration? They are caught between apprentice. That single example shows the current a rock and a hard place—they need their money, but imbalances in the procurement system and the they are often frightened to rock the boat, perhaps impracticalities of using cash retentions. losing a vital pipeline of work from the contractor they The research paper “Retention in the Construction are in arbitration with. That was the case for a local Industry”, published by BEIS and Pye Tait Consulting, contractor in my constituency who approached me, as found that 44% of the contractors surveyed had experience the MP, on the issue of cash retentions. 175WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 176WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions The processes also cost money in terms of resource by Andrew Wolstenholme, to be completed by the end time, often valuable resource. Therefore, it is not as easy of that year. Due to cynicism in the Chamber, she a process for sub-contractors to follow as Ministers confirmed that have suggested in the past. According to the recently “this Government” published Government response to a consultation, the average cost borne by firms in adjudication over the will not past five years is £28,000, which is cost-prohibitive for “prevaricate in any way or seek to knock things into the long small companies. grass.”—[Official Report, 27 January 2016; Vol. 605, c. 149WH.] The following month, when the Enterprise Bill was Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I congratulate going through its stages in the Commons, the same the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate and on his Minister said of cash retentions: superb speech. Brian Griffiths of Griffiths Air Conditioning “I think they are outdated and I do not think they are fair. in Burton Latimer wrote to me on exactly that point: They are particularly unfair to small businesses.” “When monies are held for long periods (often years), SMEs Yet the Government still defeated amendments proposing simply do not have the time, resources or legal skills to chase or to eliminate the use of cash retentions, including one recover, and have to take it as loss.” that I tabled on Report. When I expressed concern in Is Mr Griffiths not spot on? Committee about timescales, the Minister also stated that Alan Brown: He is absolutely spot on—I thank the “the hon. Gentleman can be assured that this Minister gives hon. Gentleman for his intervention, which illustrates absolutely her word that this matter is not going to be kicked into the point that I was making. For the record, I think it is any long grass. In fact it is very short grass, which has only just the first time ever that he has said he is enjoying the grown, because the review will be completed by March and then speech I am making. recommendations will go out to public consultation. If legislation is required as a result of that consultation, I will be happy to be I stated that there is a historical logic to the origins of the Minister to take that through.”––[Official Report, Enterprise cash retentions, but there is no logic—and plenty of Public Bill Committee, 9 February 2016; c. 47-48.] history—to UK Governments ignoring evidence and We now know that the consultation process did indeed recommendations that time is up for the use of cash end up in the long grass. In 2017, I tried to take through retentions. As long ago as 1964, the Banwell report, a private Member’s Bill on the subject. Although the published through the Ministry of Public Building and election killed that Bill, it is fair to say that the Government Works, stated that: would have blocked it anyway, given that they did not “Where sensible methods of selecting contractors are used, the back the Bill of the hon. Member for Waveney (Peter … entire elimination of retention moneys could be accomplished Aldous) in the last Parliament. We had both had without any unreasonable risk”. considerable cross-party support for our Bills, so it was The report also suggested as an incentive that this disappointing that neither made any progress. “might well lead to a reduction in tender prices.” The only action taken by the Government since were That possible carrot was not enough for the industry the BEIS consultations on “Retention payments in the and the Government to take action. construction industry” and on “2011 changes to Part 2 A further 30 years down the line, in 1994, we had the of the Housing Grants, Construction and Regeneration Latham report. This was a joint construction industry Act 1996”, undertaken between October 2017 and January and Government report that recommended that cash 2018. To be fair, three meetings with industry and retentions should at least be protected in a trust account— stakeholders were held, and those groups agreed that recommendation 27 of the report. We have a tenancy the status quo and doing nothing were no longer regarded deposit scheme to protect individuals in the private as a viable option. renting sector, and yet for some reason there has never With the last consultation closing in January 2018, I been the will to do something with the deposits, in have been getting frustrated—two years later, and no effect, in construction. sign of anything happening. Then mysteriously, the day Why have delays continued for nearly another 30 years before this debate, the Government magically publish since the Latham report? In 2002, the Trade and Industry the responses to the consultation. Who would have Committee looked at the matter of retentions, compiling thought it? Luckily for the thrust of my debate—I had the report, “The Use of Retentions in the UK Construction already written some of this speech—that did not change Industry”. It concluded that the use of retentions in what I planned to say, because we only have publication public procurement should be phased out by 2007. That of the consultation responses. There is no hard evidence deadline came and went, so it is no surprise that in 2008 for what the Government will do next. Sadly, I fear for the Business and Enterprise Committee produced a industry and the SMEs that the long grass is once again report called “Construction matters”, which looked at being prepared. cash retentions. That report noted that the system One of the just published documents on cash retentions undermined team working, damaged the cash flow of states: small companies and impacted on training and innovation, “Our aim is to work with the construction industry and its and that it should be ended at least in all parts of the clients to achieve a consensus within the industry on how to public sector. The theme is consistent, but we are still resolve the problems associated with cash retentions. Several waiting for action. policy options are under consideration, a possible retention deposit Moving forward to 2016, the industry again hoped scheme, and phasing out of retentions completely, and work for action. In a Westminster Hall debate on 27 January, continues to assess the viability and potential impact of these.” the then Business Minister Anna Soubry assured us It feels like we are going in circles, but will the Minister at that the matter would be addressed following a review least confirm that the status quo is no longer an option? 177WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 178WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions [Alan Brown] I genuinely hope that the Minister can give positive responses. Maybe he will be the one to cut through the Why was there no acknowledgement in the consultation long grass that cash retention has been hiding in for a publication that a deposit retention scheme is the preferred long time. I assure him I would be happy to work with option of respondents? Separately,the Scottish Government him to help him cut that grass, and help companies to are consulting on retentions, including the possibility of get the money they deserve. introducing a deposit retention scheme. Their consultation closes on 25 March, but a key premise of the consultation 3.22 pm is based on Pye Tait research, which states: Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe.I congratulate “The research particularly noted that retention money held in the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan trust in a separate, ring-fenced account until it is either used to Brown) on securing the debate. As he mentioned, he rectify defects or becomes due for payment or in some form of retention deposit scheme would meet almost all of the serious and I both have form on this subject, in that we have criticisms of the current retention system.” both introduced ten-minute rule Bills to address the deep-rooted problems associated with cash retentions That would allow a statutory solution to help prompt in the construction industry.He presented his Construction payments and deal with problems with cash flow. It has Industry (Protection of Cash Retentions) Bill in 2017, certainly given hope to SMEs that action will be taken and our former colleague David Simpson initiated a in Scotland, and I urge the Scottish Government to debate in this Chamber in January 2016 following the follow through on that. Given their early adoption of collapse of the Patton Group in Northern Ireland. That project bank accounts, I expect them to be more receptive. left £10 million of retention moneys outstanding, which It is fair to say that their consultation is a stage ahead of SMEs never saw again. My own ten-minute rule Bill the UK Government’s. was presented on 9 January 2018, a week before Carillion collapsed with £800 million lost to creditors, many of The thing is that a working deposit retention scheme which were SMEs caught with retentions outstanding. solution is at hand. Industry bodies and a major tier 1 The problem has plagued the construction industry contractor have been working collaboratively with for a long time and should really have been addressed in academics, banking and financial experts, insurers and the 1990s when Sir Michael Latham produced his report, software developers to develop an IT platform as a digital commissionedbyboththeGovernmentandtheconstruction solution to ring-fencing cash retentions. The key features industry, entitled “Constructing the Team”. It had a in the proposed retention deposit clearing house scheme significant impact on the industry and led to part II of are that the aggregate of the retention moneys handed the Housing Grants, Construction and Regeneration over to the client will held in a bank account and Act 1996, generally known as the Construction Act. ring-fenced by a trust, and allocated to all supply chain Unfortunately, one of Sir Michael’s recommendations firms as is relevant to their deductions. Also, firms will remains outstanding and has never been implemented. be able to use an app for online checks of the amount of That relates to cash retentions being retained in a secure their retentions held in the scheme. An insurance policy trust fund. Two and a half decades on, we really should will be made available to the client to cover any shortfall now be putting right that glaring omission. It is a scar in the scheme in case there is non-compliant work that that has blighted and held back the construction industry is not rectified, because of insolvency, for example. The for many years and caused personal anguish and distress scheme will be regulated by the Financial Conduct to the proprietors and staff of many businesses. Authority. The costs of administering the scheme are estimated at just £23 per £10,000 of main contract John Spellar: Is not the situation exacerbated by the value, so cost is clearly not a barrier to introducing it. fact that contractors and indeed their employees are way back in the list of preferred creditors? It transpires from the responses that have just been published that the retention deposit scheme is the preferred Peter Aldous: That is true, and reminds me of something option. Additionally, as I am sure the Minister is aware, else I am handling at the moment where Her Majesty’s the BEIS roundtable meeting of client and industry Revenue and Customs is put right at the top of the list. stakeholders in May 2019 voted for work to begin on The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. the feasibility of a retention deposit scheme. I want The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun has therefore to ask the Minister what Government progress explained the problem and I shall not go into much there has been to date, in relation to that work. What is detail about it. Retentions are ostensibly held as security the Department’stimetable for taking action on protecting in case a firm fails to return to rectify defects. In cash retentions? Those are the key issues on which I am practice, they are often withheld to bolster the working looking for an answer from the Minister—but by way of capital of the group withholding them. Under standard a conclusion there are some other questions I should industry contracts, they should be returned within like to put to him. Why did it take so long to publish the 12 months of the handover of the works in question, responses to the consultation? Does he agree that tier 1 but there are regular delays, often of up to three years. I contractors should not use subcontractor retentions for have seen one case of a delay of 12 years, and some their own cashflow purposes? Will he definitively rule retentions have even been held in perpetuity, as they are out the status quo? I have outlined Scottish Government never returned. Most of that cash is provided by SMEs. recognition of the need for legislative measures on No other industry puts so much cash at risk and places retentions, so what plans does BEIS have for legislative such burdens on its small businesses. That abuse of solutions? What is the Government position on retentions retentions has a negative knock-on domino impact that within their own projects? For example, will BEIS confirm cascades through the construction industry. It restricts that retentions will be removed from all Government-funded investment in new equipment and facilities, prevents projects, as has been recommended for decades? firms from taking on more work, and disadvantages 179WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 180WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions them in relation to employing more people and investing To the outside world, nothing has happened since in apprenticeships. At a time when we need to build January 2018. The Brexit impasse brought the machinery more homes and invest in infrastructure, the construction of government to a halt. However, behind the scenes, a industry should be operating at full throttle. Instead, fair amount has been going on. As a result of the owing to the self-imposed brake of retentions abuse, it outstanding efforts of the Building Engineering Services is struggling to get out of third gear. Association and the leading electrotechnical and engineering What is the solution? There have been many failed services body, the Electrical Contractors’ Association, attempts to solve the problem voluntarily, and they have the January 2018 Bill secured the support of more than all got nowhere. We can continue to go round and 80 industry bodies and trade associations, representing round in circles, but we should be introducing a statutory over 580,000 businesses and sole traders. It was the solution with legislation that secures the moneys so that largest fair payments campaign ever formed in the UK, they will be able to be returned, subject to the other party representing every level of the supply chain from across having recourse to the money.The Construction (Retention the construction and engineering professions. The British Deposit Schemes) Bill that I presented and the hon. Chamber of Commerce,the Federation of Small Businesses Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun kindly supported and the Institute of Directors were also supportive. Only proposed that retentions should be retained in a last week, Suffolk-based Breheny Civil Engineering, one Government-approved scheme. That would operate in a of the largest privately owned regional civil engineering similar way to what is required for shorthold tenants contractors, wrote to me in support of the Bill. under the Housing Act 2004, whereby deposits taken In the last Parliament, the Bill received strong from them must be placed in an approved scheme. parliamentary support, with more than 250 MPs from Ring-fencing the moneys in that way will mean that across the political spectrum indicating their support. they will be secure, and available to be released on time Indeed, on the list that I have before me, in perfect rather than, as currently happens, after a wait of three alphabetical symmetry I am second from the top of the or more years—if ever. That will help to increase the list and the Minister is second from the end. It is velocity of cash in the system, and if moneys are appropriate to acknowledge the work of previous Ministers secured in that way banks will be able to lend to firms at the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial on the back of such security. Strategy who recognised the need for change, in It is appropriate to look briefly at the situation in particular my hon. Friend the Member for Rochester other countries. The UK is now very much out of step and Strood () and our former colleague with what happens elsewhere, where there is legislation Richard Harrington. ring-fencing cash retentions and/or providing security Richard convened a roundtable meeting of industry for construction payments in general. In Canada and representatives to address the problem. He very kindly the United States there is a system of charges that can ensured that I received invitations to the opening session be placed on a building or structure by a firm that has in October 2018 and the concluding one in May 2019, not received its payments. Australia and New Zealand although by then he was no longer a Minister. He made have legislated to ring-fence the money. France has a absolutely clear at the outset that doing nothing was not statutory framework that requires bank guarantees to an option, and that we cannot continue to kick this be used as security for payment in the construction particular can down the road. I got the impression that industry. The Bill is a relatively straightforward one that he wanted this reform to be his legacy from his time in amends the Construction Act and requires the Secretary office. Unfortunately, it was not to be. The outcome of of State to introduce regulation to protect moneys. the roundtable was not conclusive, though, on balance, my sense is that there was a clear preference for a retention deposit scheme as the Bill proposes, rather Mr Hollobone: My hon. Friend has a fan in Kettering. than an alternative surety bond-based solution. Mr Brian Griffiths, of Griffiths Air Conditioning and Electrical Contractors, which employs 30 people locally, Over the past 18 months,pay2Escrow has been modelling has mentioned my hon. Friend to me in dispatches. how a retention deposit scheme could work. The hon. Mr Griffiths is of the view, as am I, that the ready-made Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun outlined that solution to the problem is my hon. Friend’s Bill, which scheme; pay2Escrow has taken me through its proposals, the Government could simply introduce as a Government and I understand it has made presentations to officials Bill. Not only is my hon. Friend outlining the problem at BEIS. I would anticipate that the Minister has been extremely effectively, he is providing the Government briefed on those. with a ready-made solution. I presented my ten-minute rule Bill 10 days before the Government’sconsultation on retentions closed. Yesterday, Peter Aldous: I believe that the Bill is the framework they published a summary of the responses. Of the for resolving the issues, and an awful lot could flow 52 responses in Citizen Space, 60% thought that a retention from putting it in place. deposit scheme could apply to the whole sector. Of the seven business representative organisations that responded A retention deposit scheme seeks to safeguard the to the same question, 71% considered that an RDS money. Cash retentions can still be deducted as security, could apply to the whole sector. Some 82% of 55 responses but they in turn must be secured by depositing them in in Citizen Space believed an RDS should set up on a the scheme. Failure to do so will mean that any contractual statutory footing. Of the eight business representative clause enabling the deduction of cash retentions would organisations that responded to the question, 75% believed be invalid. The Bill would finally bring closure to the many an RDS should be set up on a statutory footing. The efforts that have been made over the past two decades Minister concludes his foreword to the summary by stating: and before to address the problem. In doing so, it would “We will continue to work with industry on these issues and transform the prospects of many SMEs that make up the policy options for addressing the problem of unjustified and the vast majority of firms in the UK construction industry. late payment of cash retentions.” 181WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 182WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions [Peter Aldous] construction firms report that they will not even consider taking contracts that insist on retention payments, with Will the Minister address three questions? First, does significant implications on the types of firms that will he agree with Richard Harrington that doing nothing is bid for particular projects.Retentions also have a significant not an option? Secondly, will he facilitate a pilot for the effect on cash flow and the supply chain. Although retentions deposit model that has been worked up? Finally, retentions will not be the only reason for late or non- will he work to secure Government time for the passage payment for a project, anecdotal evidence suggests that of the Construction (Retention Deposit Schemes) Bill? cash retentions can cause or exacerbate cash-flow problems, meaning that companies with otherwise healthy balance John Spellar: The hon. Gentleman has done a sheets and considerable assets can be placed into tremendous amount of work on this issue. What does administration or liquidation. That is especially true he think is the Government’s underlying problem? Where when companies are under pressure to win contracts by in government does he think is the blockage against delivering high-quality work at low prices, leaving them what is universally agreed to be a desirable solution? little room for manoeuvre if projects overrun or incur Who is holding this up? substantial unforeseen additional costs. My hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Peter Aldous: I will try to answer, although I think the Loudoun referred to the collapse of Carillion. The Minister is the best person to do so. First, there was the impact of Carillion’s collapse on the construction industry Brexit impasse, when nothing happened. Secondly, over and the wider public sector is well documented. However, the years, the main contractors have probably thwarted it would be remiss of me not to highlight the fact that it, saying, “No, it’s going to cause us cash problems and Carillion went into liquidation owing more than £1 billion the whole edifice will be crumbling down.” That said, to 30,000 suppliers, many of which were smaller firms some people in those firms who initially said, “No, you that subsequently suffered major cash-flow problems don’t want to go down this line,” have actually changed because Carillion demanded up-front payment. Carillion’s their tune, and now say, “Come on, let’s get on with it.” collapse demonstrates how vulnerable smaller companies Thirdly, there has been concern that it is too difficult to can be in the supply chain. It is the tip of the iceberg. put in place, so we should put it in the “too difficult” The UK Government’s own research found that smaller tray. The point of the pilot and the work over the last construction firms lose almost £1 million in fees per 18 months is that a solution is now ready to go. Those working day due to insolvency issues further up the are the reasons I think things have not happened for a supply chain. That is untenable. The economy is not long time, but now is the time. well served if smaller firms can be held to ransom by larger firms, placing every other contractor in the supply 3.37 pm chain in a precarious position. Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) Late and non-payment has a real human cost, too, (SNP): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, which my hon. Friend mentioned. It was worrying to Mr McCabe. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for hear the statistics about SMEs, including the fact that Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) for securing cash retentions cause a lot of mental health problems. this debate. It is fair to say that the practice of retentions Construction News reported on 22 major administrations remains a controversial issue. I hope that this debate has of construction firms in 2019. There are hundreds of cast a little more light on the financial challenges facing job losses each time a firm closes its doors. As we saw the construction industry across the UK. with Carillion’s collapse, the precarious nature of the I would like to highlight a point made by my hon. system is felt most acutely by employees. It is incumbent Friend: some of these cash retentions have been withheld on MPs to do what we can to tackle the scourge of late for many years, with an impact on productivity. The payments. hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), who is no We need to create a level playing field for different longer in the Chamber, made an excellent intervention firms to bid for major construction projects, while about small and medium enterprises not having the ensuring that those commissioning construction projects time, resources or legal skills to chase outstanding can have confidence in the quality of the works that are moneys. He recommended action—the best action would carried out. They need to feel that they have appropriate be a Bill in which the Government provide a solution. guarantees and a way to sort out defects should anything The right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar) go wrong with the project, but the withholding of cash, spoke about the chain of subcontractors involved, and particularly from small firms, could be the difference the monumental ripple effect through the industry. The between a business completing a contract and going hon. Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous), who is to be under. We must offer firms alternative quality assurance congratulated on introducing a ten-minute rule Bill in models for construction works, such as retention bonds, January 2018, made the point that the issue should have performance bonds and parent company guarantees, all been dealt with in the 1990s, and has been dragging on of which provide security through a third party and all those years. He made the interesting point that some avoid the cash-flow issues and problems of late and of the cash retentions have actually bolstered the working non-payment that we have discussed. capital of groups that withhold the cash. The abuse of The Scottish Government, as my hon. Friend mentioned, retentions prevents firms from investing and employing are well aware of the impact of retentions on the more staff. The way to go is definitely legislation. construction industry and are consulting firms across Retention payments can skew the types of firms that the sector on possible alternatives. I encourage all those bid for contracts. The practice of retentions has a with an interest to submit their views on the impact of significant impact on the entire supply chain, with small retentions on their business by the deadline of 25 March. to medium-sized firms disproportionately affected. Many The Scottish Government’sproposal of a retention deposit 183WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 184WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions scheme as an alternative mechanism to guarantee works and even when it does not, chasing retentions—certainly has considerable merit, and I look forward to seeing at the final element of them—is a huge problem for many the end of the consultation period how construction businesses, some of which give up. firms responded to that proposal. Let us remember that the amount of retentions we The UK Government have also consulted on the use are talking about is often the margin for smaller firms in of cash retentions. My hon. Friend mentioned that that construction contracts. If firms are unable to collect consultation closed more than two years ago. It has taken those retentions, their financial viability is often threatened. the UK Government far too long to address the issue— although as he said, magically, the response was published John Spellar: Does not that mean that many big yesterday, in advance of this debate. Why has it taken so contractors are in a mutually destructive relationship? long to publish the findings? What steps does the Minister If some of their subcontractors—or even their sub- intend to take to encourage the use of alternative quality subcontractors—go bust, they have to bring in new assurance models for construction work? We want to firms, delaying and putting at risk their projects. move forward on reforms that give construction firms Somebody—actually, it has to be the Government—has financial security while giving the public confidence in to break that mutually destructive cycle. the quality and safety of building works. Bill Esterson: I agree with my right hon. Friend, and that goes back to what the hon. Member for Waveney 3.44 pm said about the big contractors beginning to wake up. Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): I congratulate They cannot carry on as they are because by continuing the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan this disruptive practice, they will be undermined. When Brown) on securing yet another debate on this topic. the large firms start to challenge the very behaviours “Stop, thief!” That was my reaction when I learned from which they profit, we start to realise that perhaps that £573 million has been lost by SMEs in the construction those behaviours are coming to an end. We live in hope industry in the two and a bit—quite a bit more than a that that is part of the answer. bit—years since October 2017, when the Government Some of the consultation responses said, “Everything’s published a report showing that £229 million a year is fine, leave it alone”, but that is clearly a minority view. lost as a result of the application of retentions, which has We often see the attempt to get small firms to apply for been described so well by Members across the Chamber. promptpaymentinreturnforadiscount,aquitedisgraceful A crime has been committed. In fact, a series of business practice that happens not just in retentions but crimes has been committed over many years. This is a across the board—and not just in the construction industry. crime in which there is an imbalance of justice between Again, the Government should be challenging and ending large and small: the big firm is allowed to exploit the that. It goes back to the point about tight margins. small firm with impunity and continue to get away with I take exception with how some of the responses were it. The perpetrators are a relatively small number of reportedbytheGovernmentinthesummaryof consultation very large organisations. The victims—in any crime there responses, because it was quite hard to tell the difference are victims, and we should take their side—are SMEs in between the responses from large firms and those from the construction sector, and self-employed contractors, small firms—the perpetrators and the victims. We could who often rely on SMEs for work. Retentions are applied work it out in the end, but we had to really look for it. unfairly and disproportionately in the supply chain. It is Perhaps the Minister will speak to that point. a crime that that has been allowed to continue. A constituency firm of mine called WT Jenkins, Let us see some action to stop the thief. Let us end which does highway lighting, showed me its files on the this criminal activity and imbalance. Let us ensure there shelf in the office. Its typical retentions, when I spoke to is a level playing field in the construction industry by it about five years ago, were between 5% and 10% of taking the kind of action that the hon. Members for contract price. That is in the public sector. There are Waveney (Peter Aldous) and for Kilmarnock and Loudoun, problems in the public sector and in the private sector, and many of the rest of us, have sought for some time. in house building in particular. The firm was waiting It is time the Government stood up for the little person between two and five years; the hon. Member for Waveney rather than siding with the large corporates. Frankly, mentioned three years in his speech. It is an absurd way the lifestyles of a small number of people running large to carry on. organisations are funded on the backs of hard-working Other Members may have seen a letter sent to the owners and workers in small businesses in the construction Secretary of State from R Durtnell and Sons Ltd, sector. Why on earth is that allowed? building contractors who had been going for 430 years. I am afraid that the idea in one of the consultation I hope the Minister has had sight of it. The firm’s responses that we should not worry about insolvency three-page letter describes the refusal to pay, the because there is a buoyant market is at best complacent exaggeration of claims of defects by the main contractors and at worst downright disingenuous. We have only to and an exploitative model. It made clear in the letter look at what happened with Carillion—I think it was that it paid its suppliers and its retention liabilities on actually £2 billion in late payments that was lost by time, yet it had to suffer having retentions withheld 30,000 businesses—and at the examples given to us by against it for many months, if not years, in wholly the Federation of Master Builders. K&M Decorating unacceptable ways. Other hon. Members spelled that lost £230,000 in retentions alone. A number of the out well in their examples. federation’s members that were in supply chains with Like the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun, Carillion went into liquidation as a result of unpaid I thought, “Great! We have had a Government response retentions. We must not be complacent. We cannot to the consultation. Fantastic news”—and then I read afford to take the attitude that insolvency is not the it. I thought that I could have told the Government problem that it really can be. Insolvency often happens, every single one of the comments, because they have all 185WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 186WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions [Bill Esterson] “a possible retention deposit scheme, and phasing out of retentions completely, and work continues to assess the viability and potential been made in this House and to us individually by impact of these.” businesses and business organisations over the years. It Why has it taken so long? When will it come forward? It has taken two years to get to the point of the response. should have been with us today had anything been My right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (John brought in front of us for the debate. The retention Spellar) rightly mentioned the lack of urgency. We have deposit scheme has clear support in the consultation, as had roundtables, with the last one, as we heard, happening does a phasing out of retentions altogether. Everyone in May last year. Why are we getting only a summary of expects the Minister to give some answers on those responses? Why have we not had an action plan? A ideas at this stage. paragraph saying: A level playing field is needed. Suppliers have to be “Several policy options are under consideration”, treated fairly. There can be no more Carillions. There simply does not cut it. That is not good enough. It will must be an end to the crime of retention and to the not stop the crime of retentions. We need action and we abuse, as well as proper support for victims and justice need it fast. for the construction SMEs and self-employed contractors. In whose interest is it to continue as we are? It is In the consultation, the phrase “the principle is sound” certainly not in the interest of the small businesses and was used when referring to the concept of retentions. the self-employed contractors, and it will not be in the Not, I am afraid, in the way it is applied. It is not doing interest of the large firms for much longer.The Government anybody any favours, certainly not those at the sharp can do something about this issue. They have the evidence end. As we have discussed previously, it is increasingly to act and they must get on with it. affecting the industry as a whole and those at the top as well. We can see some signs of improvement in the public sector with project bank accounts. Highways 4 pm England is spending a £20 billion on work through project bank accounts and the devolved nations are The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, taking active steps along similar lines. Energy and Industrial Strategy (): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe. The Government have a great tool in procurement. I thank the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun They can insist that those who spend money with the (Alan Brown) for initiating this important debate. I also Government apply productive, responsible business thank my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter behaviours through their supply chains. Why are they Aldous) for his excellent contribution, and thank the not doing that already? Perhaps they are considering right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar) and my that in their response, and perhaps the Minister will say hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) that they will take such an approach. The fact that the for their interventions. tenancy deposit scheme in the private rented sector is effective and works well shows what kind of model can The construction industry is vital to our future prosperity. be put forward. The hon. Member for Waveney’sten-minute Its turnover in 2018 was £413 billion, it accounts for 9% rule Bill gives the Government a blueprint for what of the UK economy and it employs around 9% of the could be applied. UK workforce, which is about 3.2 million people. The industry also builds and maintains our places of work, The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun our schools, our hospitals, our economic infrastructure mentioned Dame Judith Hackitt’s comments. A poor and, of course, our homes. quality of work is one of the system’s consequences, with substitutions for poor materials made because of My hon. Friend the Member for Waveney asked me the impact of non-payment in the retention system on three questions. In answer to the first, which I will refer cash flow and profits. It is a very real problem, and to as the Harrington question, the Government are anybody who looks at the poor quality of new build committed to tackling the problems of late and unfair housing can see exactly what is happening. I have seen it payment that burden businesses. That is why we have at a 300-home development in my constituency next to introduced a number of measures, including requiring the new Maghull North station, with shoddy work and large firms to report on their payment performance, the theapplicationof retentionswhilethedeveloper,Persimmon, power to exclude firms that consistently pay late from makes vast profits and pays significant bonuses to its Government contracts, and the prompt payment code. directors. It is not good enough and it has to change. Prompt and fair payment has long been a problem The Housing Grants, Construction and Regeneration within the construction industry.Payment has traditionally Act 1996 is quoted by a number of respondents to the cascaded down supply chains, as we have heard from a Government consultation. Pay-when-paid is not allowed, number of colleagues. As a result, smaller firms in the but it continues and we need further action, intervention supply chain carry a disproportionate amount of project and support to deal with that problem. Is it not about and payment risk, through late or non-payment; my time that the Small Business Commissioner and their hon. Friend the Member for Kettering gave Griffiths office had full responsibility for looking into this issue Air Conditioning and Electrical Contractors as an example and were given the resources needed to address retentions of that. in construction in both the private sector and Government Cash retention is an example of a payment practice procurement supply chains? vulnerable to both insolvency and abuse.Manyconstruction This is an incredibly important issue for the construction contracts include provision for cash retention. Holding industry and the wider economy. When will we get the retention money is a long-established way of providing full Government response? The Government say that insurance against defects in an industry that is highly they will work with industry.The policy options mentioned fragmented and operates on a project-by-project basis in the report are and in which defective work can be common. However, 187WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 188WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions the practice does not offer protection to contractors their private Members’ Bills. It is important that any against the loss of their retention due to upstream action we take is robust, proportionate and evidence insolvency, as we have heard, including in the examples based, which is where we are at the moment. Several given by the right hon. Member for Warley. It can be policy options are under consideration, including the subject to late, partial or non-payment for the supply retention deposit scheme. It would be premature to chain. I reassure you, Mr McCabe, that Ministers commit to anything at this stage while several policy acknowledge that there is a strong case to reform the options are under consideration. practice of cash retentions, which is why we committed to review retention payments. Bill Esterson: The Minister is right to look for evidence. We have a tenancy deposit scheme that works. We have It may be helpful to outline the work that my Department evidence from New Zealand, Canada, Australia, France has undertaken on this issue to date. We have consulted and New Mexico that such a scheme is possible in on the introduction of a retention deposit scheme, and construction. The evidence of best practice from around produced an independent research paper on the issue, the world is in front of him. The evidence is also there and we have looked at other solutions to the abuse of from the construction industry in this country that it is retentions. Following the consultation, we have worked desirable and needed. This has gone on for far too long; with firms in the industry and with public and private can the Government just get on with it? sector clients to gather further information and to discuss possible solutions. Nadhim Zahawi: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman Further work has been undertaken to analyse the for his encouragement. The hon. Member for Kilmarnock design, operation, costs and wider implications, including and Loudoun talked about a clear majority supporting costs for the industry, of both a retention deposit scheme the retention deposit scheme. I take issue with that, and and a statutory ban on retentions. That work included not as a party political matter. There is no clear majority ministerial roundtable meetings, which my hon. Friend supporting any solution at the moment. It is right for the Member for Waveney mentioned, with key the Government to begin to distil opinions and come to representatives from across the sector and from clients a view. to tackle the abuse of retentions. While most people in The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun also the construction industry favour change, there is no mentioned that significant parts of the industry have consensus on the solution. called for the scheme and asked why the Government John Spellar: Quite frankly, has this issue not been will not legislate for it. Given the evident complexity of researched and consulted on to death? As with most the policy issues, as we have discussed, it would be things in life, it will always be the case that there will not premature to commit to introduce a retention deposit be unanimity. However, is it not the role of Government, scheme. In addition, costs are driven by what the industry and particularly that of Ministers, to make a decision, wants to adopt and what it wants to resist. Unfortunately, drive it through and make it happen? Without that we the lack of consensus to date means that a preferred will keep going round in an endless cycle, while the solution has not yet emerged. We will continue to work industry, in all its various manifestations, is in a negative with stakeholders and I would like to think that we can cycle of mutual abuse, which is dragging it down. get to a place where we have that consensus. Nadhim Zahawi: The hon. Gentleman makes a powerful John Spellar: Let me try to help the Minister out of point. He is right that we have to make a decision, but it this—we would even be prepared to call it the Zahawi is complex and we do not want to create perverse scheme if he wants to do it. Waiting for unanimity and incentives in a different direction. Consensus is necessary, overall consensus is a recipe for eternal inertia. The as costs are driven by the extent to which industry Government have a real interest, not just from the point adopts or resists change. If the industry does not adopt of view of the economy as a whole but as a client, so let it, one sees a perverse incentive. It is clear that cash me ask him the straightforward question: when is he retentions in construction are a complex issue. I may be going to come to a conclusion and decide the way new to this job, but I spent many more years in business forward? I am not asking for an exact date, but how than I have spent being a Member of Parliament or a about a month? Minister. Sometimes the wrong decision can create a Nadhim Zahawi: The temptation is great, but the perverse incentive. issue is complex, as I have said— Alan Brown: As the right hon. Member for Warley John Spellar: It is not. (John Spellar) pointed out, are the Government not incentivising companies to dig their heels in and keep Nadhim Zahawi: I do not agree. I hope I have built a saying no? If the Government wait for consensus, that reputation over the past decade of being someone who incentivises the wrong behaviour for contractors. As is evidence led; it is important that we do that. My hon. has been outlined in this debate, this situation has been Friend the Member for Kettering talked about the going on for decades. We are not getting anywhere inability of small firms to pursue unpaid moneys because because the Government are waiting for a magic, 100% they do not have the time or the resources. The 2011 consensus. amendments to the Housing Grants, Construction and Regeneration Act 1996 were introduced to ensure fair Nadhim Zahawi: I opened by saying that the Government and prompt payment through facilitating better payment, are committed to tackling the problem of late and adjudication and arbitration processes, particularly for unfair payments, so I hope that answers the question small businesses. I wanted to put that on record as well. whether we are going to do something about the issue. To respond to other points that were raised, the hon. Alan Brown: Going back to timescales, the Minister is Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun and my brilliant not willing to commit to a month—forget that—but hon. Friend the Member for Waveney both mentioned surely to goodness he could give us an idea of a programme 189WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 190WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions [Alan Brown] he confirm that the status quo is ruled out completely and that he will be coming forward with alternative and also explain why it took two years, following the proposals? responses to the consultation, for them to be published? That does not give confidence that there is any clear Nadhim Zahawi: I think that my stating clearly and programme for the Government. repeating over and over again that we are committed to dealing with this issue should give my hon. Friend the Nadhim Zahawi: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the comfort he seeks that we are absolutely committed to answer I gave earlier. We are absolutely committed, but dealing with this. Part of that process, as he can see, is it is a complex issue. My hon. Friend the Member for the publication that we have made, and we will move Waveney rightly asked the Government to agree that forward to ensure we deal with it. action should be taken. It is important to remind ourselves I will conclude by saying that there is no simple that we have now published the summary of responses solution to the abuse of retention. Any changes would to the consultation on the practice of cash retention. need to be implemented correctly and require consistent We will continue to work with him, with others and support from industry. I am clear that any solution with industry on these issues and on policy options to must work for the industry and its clients, must be address the problem. We are committed to addressing it. sustainable and must address all the issues and the need My hon. Friend’s final question was about a pilot for both surety and fair payment. scheme. My officials have met with representatives of Industry and clients need to work together to develop Pay2escrow on several occasions to discuss the proposal that alongside Government, as they are doing, and to for a deposit retention scheme, and the meetings have define what the solution might be and how we create a been helpful in clarifying and understanding its work. process that gets us to that solution. I hope that that Weremainindialoguewithindustrytotrytobuildconsensus information offers some comfort to colleagues and some on the future policy. As I said, given the complexity, it is reassurance that the Government are committed—I say important that we make the commitment when we think it one more time—to addressing the problems associated it is the right thing to do. I want colleagues to understand with the practice of cash retention. that we are committed to that process. Margaret Ferrier: In the Government consultation, Margaret Ferrier: The Minister has been very generous 82% of respondents thought that existing measures in giving way. He has said again that he is committed to were ineffective in addressing the challenges of prompt tackling the issue, but do we have any idea of a timescale release and security of retentions. The Minister mentioned for this, or are we going to be back here in 2022 saying, an independent research paper. Can he tell us how long “We were in Westminster Hall debating this issue”? that research paper is going to take? Is this not, frankly, Could we maybe get an idea of some sort of timescale? a matter of kicking this issue into the long grass once again? Nadhim Zahawi: The hon. Lady is right to continue Nadhim Zahawi: I think it is unfair and wrong to say to push on this issue; I agree that the process has been that—we are not kicking the matter into the long grass. far slower than I would have anticipated or the Government I have repeated over and over again that we are committed would have liked. That is partly due to the complexity to dealing with this issue. of the issue and one should not—[Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Warley may laugh, but it is John Spellar: When? complex, because we do not want to intervene and Margaret Ferrier: When? create perverse incentives, and of course a wide range of interested parties are watching this space. I promise that Nadhim Zahawi: I will answer the hon. Member for we will continue to work with the construction sector Sefton Central (Bill Esterson), because he asked an and its clients to achieve a solution to this problem. important question—why will the Government not expand the remit for the Small Business Commissioner to include 4.17 pm the construction industry? The honest truth is that the Government do not intend to extend the scope of the Alan Brown: Thank you again for your chairmanship Small Business Commissioner’sactivity to the construction today, Mr McCabe. I thank all hon. Members who have industry. Section 4(5) of the Enterprise Act 2016 states contributed. This is an important matter,but unfortunately, that where, having the 3 pm slot on a Thursday afternoon has probably prevented other hon. Members from taking “the complainant has a statutory right to refer the complaint for adjudication by a person other than a court or tribunal,” part, given that they will be back in their constituencies. that complaint is excluded from the commissioner’s In terms of Back-Bench contributions, we had fantastic complaint scheme. interventions from the right hon. Member for Warley The Government believe that that is the correct approach (John Spellar) and some key examples from the hon. to considering the complexity of construction contract Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone). I pay particular disputes, which tend to be incredibly technical, and we tribute to the hon. Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous), do not intend to extend the scope of the commissioner. not only for his contribution today,but, more importantly, for the work he has undertaken with his Bill and in In answer to the question from the hon. Member for making progress on finding consensus on a deposit Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier), the retention scheme. I am beginning to think that it is his research was published during the consultation process. willingness to get things done that keeps him on the I hope that that sets her mind at rest. Back Benches rather than the Government Front Benches. Peter Aldous: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for We have heard, and we know, that cash retentions are looking into this issue in such detail, and I appreciate costing jobs, training, opportunities and productivity, that he has been in his role for only two weeks, but can and ultimately—maybe the Minister should think about 191WH Construction Industry: 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Construction Industry: 192WH Cash Retentions Cash Retentions this—when companies go bust, it costs the Government running and let us get it done. The Government mantra in tax take. Yet today I am disappointed. I must say it is that we keep hearing is about levelling up. Let us level very disappointing. I know that the Minister is new in up for the wee guys in the construction industry and his post, but we are still hearing about options, about sort this problem. how complex the issue is and about how we need to find Question put and agreed to. consensus on the way forward. He seems to be finding Resolved, the long grass that his predecessors grew. I ask him to try to take hold of this situation. That this House has considered the use of cash retentions in the construction industry. There is a solution: a deposit retention scheme. There is a Bill there, and we can go on and get this done. As a 4.19 pm minimum, at the very least, let us get a pilot up and Sitting adjourned.

17WS Written Statements 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Written Statements 18WS

review. The loan charge is designed to tackle disguised Written Statements remuneration avoidance schemes. These are tax avoidance arrangements that seek to avoid income tax and national Thursday 27 February 2020 insurance contributions by paying scheme users their income in the form of loans, usually via an offshore trust, with no expectation that the loans would ever be CABINET OFFICE repaid. On 20 December 2019, the Government published Contingencies Fund the independent review and the Government’s response, accepting all but one of the review’s recommendations The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister (HCWS14). On 20 January 2020, HM Revenue and for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove): The Cabinet Customs (HMRC) published draft legislation giving Office has sought a repayable cash advance from the effect to the changes to the loan charge following the Contingencies Fund of £82,663,000. review (HCWS45). This routine requirement arises each year because the Today HMRC has published the following: Cabinet Office receives a high proportion of its voted Additional draft legislation covering the Government’s funding at supplementary estimate, and as a consequence commitment to refund certain payments made by individuals may only draw the related cash from the Consolidated and employers for unprotected years which will no longer be Fund after the Supply and Appropriation Act has received subject to the loan charge where tax was paid voluntarily, together with details of the repayment scheme, https://www.gov. Royal Assent in March 2020. uk/government/publications/implementation-of-changes- The cash advance will pay for programmes which will to-the-loan-charge. generate Government-wide benefits or savings and are A tax information and impact note and explanatory note to urgent in the public interest. support this legislation. https://www.gov.uk/government/ Parliamentary approval for additional resources of publications/implementation-of-changes-to-the-loan- £53,885,000 and capital of £27,903,000 and cash of charge. £875,000 will be sought in a supplementary estimate for Guidance for employers who are either subject to the loan the Cabinet Office. Pending that approval, urgent charge themselves or have employees who are. https://www.gov. uk/government/publications/disguised-remuneration- expenditure estimated at £82,663,000 will be met by independent-loan-charge-review/guidance; https://www.gov.uk/ repayable cash advances from the Contingencies Fund. guidance/report-and-account-for-your-disguised- [HCWS134] remuneration-loan-charge. All measures will be legislated for in the forthcoming Future Relationship with the EU Finance Bill. [HCWS136] The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove): Today the UK Office for Budget Responsibility Forecasts Government have published a Command Paper “The Future Relationship with the European Union: the The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rishi Sunak): Today, UK’s approach to negotiations”. Copies have been placed the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) wrote to me in the Libraries of both Houses. setting out the options for their second forecast for the This paper sets out our vision of the future relationship 2019-20 financial year, consistent with fulfilling their with the EU. This is based on a comprehensive free duties under the Budget Responsibility and National trade agreement, or FTA, plus separate agreements on Audit Act 2011 (BRNA). The BRNA states that the fisheries, law enforcement and judicial co-operation in OBR is legally required to produce two economic and criminal matters, aviation, energy, and others. fiscal forecasts in each financial year. A forecast was We are seeking the type of trade agreement which the originally planned alongside the autumn Budget that EU has already concluded in recent years with Canada was cancelled due to the general election. The first and other friendly countries. forecast of the year will now be produced alongside the Our approach is based on friendly co-operation between upcoming spring Budget. However, to fulfil its duty the sovereign equals. It represents our clear and unwavering OBR must produce another forecast before the end of view that the UK will always have control of its own the financial year. I have commissioned the OBR to laws and political life, legal autonomy, and the right to publish a second forecast on 13 March which will focus manage its own borders, immigration policy and taxes. on providing updated information on debt interest. The This Government is committed to establishing the second forecast will be laid in Parliament on 13 March future relationship in ways that benefit the whole of the with copies available in the Vote Office and Printed UK and strengthen our Union. We believe that this Paper Office. A copy of the letter from the OBR and my overall approach is a fair and reasonable one. response will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. [HCWS129] [HCWS132]

TREASURY DEFENCE

Loan Charge Review Defence Equipment Plan

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (): The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): In September 2019, the Government commissioned I am pleased to place in the Library of the House the Sir Amyas Morse to lead the independent loan charge 2019 financial summary of the defence equipment plan, 19WS Written Statements 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Written Statements 20WS which sets out our plans to deliver the equipment The review submitted three reports, part one on the needed by our armed forces to defend the country and need for the SJS and an overview of the system in protect our national interest. March 2018 and a separate report on service policing, The threat to the UK and our interests is intensifying followed by part two on how the system can be improved and diversifying. As we set out in the modernising in March 2019. In part two, the review made a total of defence programme, we need to modernise to keep pace 60 recommendations with the aim of improving the SJS. with these threats. The forthcoming integrated security, The Ministry of Defence welcomes the reports and defence and foreign policy review will provide us with will be considering the recommendations in detail, including the opportunity to re-visit our equipment plans to make those that will require legislation for possible inclusion sure that we are spending the defence budget on the in the Armed Forces Bill. right capabilities to keep our country safe in the decades [HCWS131] ahead. This will inescapably bring some difficult choices. We will need to create the financial headroom in our equipment plan to harness emerging technologies and develop the battle-winning capabilities of tomorrow. HOME DEPARTMENT We know that to get this right, we must accelerate our work to mobilise, modernise and transform so that we deliver more effectively and efficiently over the long Independent Review of Drugs term. Reviewing our acquisition process will be an important part of this work. While there is clearly work still to do, the Department The Secretary of State for the Home Department has made encouraging progress in improving financial (Priti Patel): In February last year, the former Home management, including in the equipment plan. We have Secretary, my Right hon. Friend the Member for balanced the budget for equipment in the 2019-20 financial Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid), announced that Professor year and refined our assessment of the financial shortfall Dame Carol Black had been appointed to lead a major in our plans for the next decade, which has reduced independent review of drugs. Dame Carol was asked to from £7 billion to £2.9 billion, or 1.6% of our equipment look at a wide range of issues, including the system of budget. support and enforcement around drug misuse, in order We take seriously the recommendations of the 2018 to inform our thinking about what more can be done to Public Accounts Committee inquiry into the equipment tackle drug harms. plan and in April 2019 reported the actions we are I am pleased to announce that today Dame Carol’s taking in response. These include revisions to this report review has been published. The review provides detailed to include further analysis of changes to the affordability analytical insights on the challenges around drug supply of the plan and provide further background information and demand and I would like to thank Dame Carol for on individual projects. producing such an accomplished piece of research. This The Government remain committed to meeting the will be of significant value in guiding further Government NATO target of spending at least 2% of GDP on action to tackle drugs as we move forward. defence, and at least 20% of that spending will be on This Government recognise that illegal drugs devastate equipment. During 2018-19, the Government committed lives, families and communities. There are strong links £1.6 billion additional spending for defence and a further between drugs and serious violence which have played £2.2 billion was committed in spending round 2019. out on our streets, as well as a range of wider health and The detailed implications of this most recent settlement social harms. The review makes clear that we face a on the equipment plan are being reviewed and will be whole system problem that should be addressed by reported in due course. looking at Government intervention in the round. It is The Department is alert to the financial challenges therefore critical that we bring together partners from rooted in previous strategic defence and security reviews across Government and externally to build upon this that were over ambitious and underfunded. That is why work and tackle the challenging issues Dame Carol has the Prime Minister granted a £2.2 billion uplift at the raised. last spending review and it is why the integrated defence, Activity is already in place to tackle the findings in security and foreign policy review will be vital in ensuring the review. The Home Office is stepping up activity to the Department’s plans are put on a stable footing. address the challenges highlighted around drug supply [HCWS130] and county lines. We will bring the full force of the Government’s response to bear on drugs supply, with Service Justice System work to disrupt supply from source countries; build resilience and enhance interception at the border; improve The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny our ability to disrupt the groups that control UK wholesale Mercer): Today the Ministry of Defence is publishing and distribution of illegal drugs; pursue associated the reports of the service justice system review and its money flows; and use interventions to divert users into response to them, copies of which will be placed in the treatment where appropriate. Library of the House. The service justice system review This activity includes further investment to significantly was conducted by His Honour Shaun Lyons, a retired increase the law enforcement response to county lines. Crown court judge, who was supported on policing Our investment is having a direct impact against high matters by the former chief constable for Merseyside, harm county lines which is why we have now committed Sir Jon Murphy and by former detective superintendent an additional £5 million, on top of the £20 million that Mark Guinness on domestic bbuse, child abuse and we announced in October 2019. This means we will victims and witnesses. be investing £20 million in 2020-21 to further increase 21WS Written Statements 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Written Statements 22WS activity against these ruthless gangs. We are also working The Government had indicated that they wished to with colleagues across Government and with key partners implement these measures from April 2020. The Ministry to develop a wider, whole system response to tackle the of Justice has made major progress towards this. It has county lines business model and associated violence worked closely with the Motor Insurers’ Bureau (MIB), and exploitation and with stakeholders representing claimants, including Alongside this, my Right hon. Friend the Secretary of litigants in person, and defendants, on the successful State for Health and Social Care will commission a build of a new official injury claim service (the service). further review of prevention, treatment and recovery. With the MIB, and using independent research, we have Dame Carol will lead this further review with input designed the new service to put the needs of the claimant from experts in the field. It will build on Dame Carol’s at its heart. It will provide a simple, user-friendly and work to ensure vulnerable people with substance misuse efficient online route to provide those affected by road problems get the support they need to recover and turn traffic accidents with an opportunity to settle small their lives around. It will look at treatment in the claims for personal injury without the need for legal community and in prison, and how treatment services representation or to go to court. Where a claimant is work with wider services that enable a person with a not able to make a claim online there will be the option drug dependency to achieve and sustain recovery,including to do so on paper. A dedicated customer contact centre mental health, housing, employment, and the criminal will be available to support all customers through the justice system. journey if necessary. The Department of Health Social and Care will work Alongside the MIB, the Ministry of Justice has closely with the Ministry of Housing, Communities demonstrated the development of the service at numerous and Local Government, the Department for Work and stakeholder events in London and Manchester, and Pensions and the Ministry of Justice to ensure the spoken at stakeholder conferences across the country. review is wide-ranging. We have been clear about the design of the service, and There are also a range of wider activity across how we will work to ensure stakeholders from across Government to address the issues raised by Dame Carol, the claimant and insurance industries are kept aware of, including work to prevent drug misuse among young and can feed into, the development of the new platform. people. I am pleased that the new Prime Minister-chaired Despite this progress, the Government have given taskforce on crime and justice has been announced, careful consideration to whether implementing the whiplash which will enable us to be ambitious in reducing crime, measures in April remains practical, given the work that including county lines, and drug-related crime such as remains to be completed. Wehave listened to the arguments the acquisitive crime driven by heroin and crack cocaine made by both claimant and insurance representative use. bodies. Given the devolved nature of many parts of the As a result, the Government have decided that more response, we will continue to work closely with the time is necessary to make sure the whiplash reform devolved Administrations to ensure drug misuse is tackled programme is fully ready for implementation. We have as a UK-wide problem. always been clear that we need to do this right, rather With this renewed focus on drugs across Government than hastily. In particular, we need to provide sufficient we are determined to address the challenges raised in time to work with the Civil Procedure Rules Committee the review head on. to put in place the supporting rules and pre-action Acopyof DameCarol’sreviewandtheexecutivesummary protocol and to give industry sufficient time to prepare will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses. It can be their businesses for the changes to how small road found at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ traffic personal injury claims are managed. We will also review-of-drugs-phase-one-report lay the statutory instrument in Parliament to introduce [HCWS 128] the tariff of damages for whiplash injuries. In the light of this, the Government have decided to JUSTICE implement these reforms on 1 August 2020. The necessary rules and pre-action protocol, and the statutory tariff, will be published in sufficient time before implementation. Whiplash Reform Programme The new service is designed with all users in mind, and will be simple and easy to operate. Currently motor The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice insurers accept liability for damages in the majority of (Robert Buckland): I would like to provide an update on whiplash claims after road traffic accidents, and we do next steps for the whiplash reform programme. not expect insurer behaviour to change post implementation. The Government remain firmly committed to However, there will be occasions when insurers do not implementing measures to tackle the high number and accept liability, and claimants will need to be able to cost of whiplash claims. The reform programme includes resolve liability disputes.Initially,the Government proposed the measures in part 1 of the Civil Liability Act 2018, to include a form of alternative dispute resolution (ADR) which will introduce a fixed tariff of damages that a to enable liability and quantum claims to be adjudicated. court may award for pain, suffering and loss of amenity However, in the event, no practicable solution which for whiplash injuries sustained in a road traffic accident, gave sufficient coverage of ADR for claims could be as well as a ban on the making or accepting of offers to found. As a result, ADR will no longer be part of the settle a whiplash claim without a medical report. Alongside online service. Instead, we will ensure access to justice these, we will be increasing the small claims track (SCT) by developing bespoke processes to enable litigants to limit for road traffic related claims to £5,000. go to court to establish liability. 23WS Written Statements 27 FEBRUARY 2020 Written Statements 24WS

The increase in the small claims track limit will not The Court of Appeal ruled today that when designating apply to those who have been termed “vulnerable road- the airports national policy statement, which was backed users”, for example, motor-cyclists, cyclists and pedestrians, by Parliament, the previous Government did not take and who in any event will not subject our whiplash account of the Paris agreement, non-CO 2 emissions tariff provisions. and emissions post 2050. The increase in the small claims track limit will also We have always been clear that Heathrow expansion not apply to children or protected parties. This will is a private sector project which must meet strict criteria enable the Government to test the processes and ensure on air quality, noise and climate change, as well as being that we have them correct before considering further privately financed, affordable, and delivered in the best extension. interest of consumers. The Government have taken the Because these claimants will not be subject to the new decision not to appeal this judgment. The promoters of small claims limit, they will also not be subject to the the scheme will be able to seek permission from the new pre-action protocol and so will not have access to Supreme Court to appeal if they wish. the online service. As such, they will not be able to As part of its judgment, the Court has declared that source their own medical report via the online service, the airports national policy statement is of no legal which is statutorily required to settle claims for whiplash effect unless and until the Government carries out a injuries. Therefore, until they can access the online review under the Planning Act 2008. The Court’sjudgment service, the normal track for claims by children and is complex and requires careful consideration. We will protected parties which include a whiplash injury, will set out our next steps in due course. be the fast track and these claims will not be allocated We want Britain to be the best place in the world to to the small claims track. This means that, for now, do business and as a Government we are committed to these claimants will be able to instruct a legal representative investing in transport and wider infrastructure as part who may obtain a medical report on their behalf and of levelling up economic opportunities across the country, their costs of legal representation will remain recoverable. including investing in the strategic road network, proceeding This decision has been taken for no reason other than with HS2, and committing £5 billion of funding to that we consider it the fairest and most straightforward improve bus and cycle services outside London. approach to ensuring, for now, that these claimants can We fully recognise the importance of the aviation obtain the medical report which they must obtain before sector for the whole UK economy. The UK’s airports they can settle their claim. support connections to over 370 overseas destinations It is absolutely right that this Government continue in more than 100 countries facilitating trade, investment their commitment to tackle the high number and and tourism. It facilitates £95.2 billion of UK’s non-EU costs of whiplash claims, and the impact these have trade exports; contributes at least £14 billion directly to on the cost of motor insurance premiums for hard GDP; supports over half a million jobs and underpins working families. Delivering these reforms remains a the competitiveness and global reach of our national key Government priority. We will continue to work with and our regional economies. Under our wider “making stakeholders to ensure that all are sufficiently prepared best use” policy, airports across the UK are already for the new measures on 1 August 2020. coming forward with ambitious proposals to invest in [HCWS133] their infrastructure. We are committed to working closely with the sector to meet our climate change commitments. Our global TRANSPORT aviation emissions offsetting scheme, sustainable aviation fuels, greenhouse gas removal technology and eventually, electric net-zero planes, will all help play their part in Aviation: Heathrow Expansion the aviation sector decarbonising. We also welcome Sustainable Aviation’s Industry-led commitment to net zero carbon emissions by 2050 and the range of innovative The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps): action this will unlock to achieve this outcome. We are Our airports are national assets and their expansion is a investing nearly £2 billion into aviation research and core part of boosting our global connectivity. This in technology, and this year my Department will publish turn will drive economic growth for all parts of this an ambitious plan of actions setting out how we will country,connecting our nations and regions to international decarbonise transport and support the UK achieving markets, levelling up our economy and supporting a net zero emissions by 2050. truly global Britain. It is critical that vital infrastructure projects, including We are also a Government who are committed to a airport expansion, drive the whole UK economy, level greener future. This Government are acting to tackle up our regions, and unite our country. climate change and we are the first major economy in [HCWS135] the world to legislate for net zero emissions by 2050.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 27 February 2020

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 447 CABINET OFFICE—continued Code of Conduct for Special Advisers ...... 456 Office for Veterans’ Affairs: Staff ...... 453 EU Nationals: Voting Rights ...... 455 Relocating Public Bodies...... 452 European Union: Future Relationship...... 450 Small and Medium-sized Businesses: Government Suppliers and Subcontractors: Government Contracts ...... 447 Payment...... 460 Topical Questions ...... 460 Import Controls: EU ...... 458 Veterans: Employment ...... 451 Infrastructure Investment: Value for Money ...... 457 Voter Identification: Voting Fraud ...... 449 Office for Veterans’ Affairs: Mental Health Voting at 16...... 459 Support...... 454 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Thursday 27 February 2020

Col. No. Col. No. CABINET OFFICE...... 17WS JUSTICE...... 21WS Contingencies Fund ...... 17WS Whiplash Reform Programme...... 21WS Future Relationship with the EU ...... 17WS TRANSPORT ...... 23WS DEFENCE...... 18WS Aviation: Heathrow Expansion ...... 23WS Defence Equipment Plan ...... 18WS Service Justice System ...... 19WS TREASURY ...... 17WS HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 20WS Loan Charge Review...... 17WS Independent Review of Drugs...... 20WS Office for Budget Responsibility Forecasts...... 18WS No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Thursday 5 March 2020

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 672 Thursday No. 31 27 February 2020

CONTENTS

Thursday 27 February 2020

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 447] [see index inside back page] Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office

European Union: Future Relationship [Col. 467] Statement—(Michael Gove)

Business of the House [Col. 485] Statement—(Mr Rees-Mogg)

Rough Sleeping [Col. 501] Statement—(Robert Jenrick)

Child Protection [Col. 512] Statement—(Victoria Atkins)

Welsh Affairs [Col. 522] General debate

Crime (West Sandwell) [Col. 582] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall School Admissions Process [Col. 163WH] Construction Industry: Cash Retentions [Col. 172WH] General Debates

Written Statements [Col. 17WS]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]