Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 21 DECEMBER 1899

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy liil2 Mownt Morgan, Etc., Bill. [A.SSEMBLY.] Questions.

I..EGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

THlJUSDAY, 21 DECEMBER, 1899.

The SPEAKER (Hon. Arthur Morgan, War1vick) took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock. PETITION. ENDOWMENT TO LOCAL A t;THOIUTIES. Mr. LORD (Stanley) presented a petition from the Esk Divisional Board praying for the estab­ li"hment of a •ystem of differential endowment to loc:tl authorities. Petition read and received. QUESTIONS. GuL~' MAIL SEI\VICE. Mr. FORSYTH ( Carpentaria) asked the Chief Secretary- Is it the case that the A.U.S.N. Company are now prepared to sign the agreement for three years in con­ nection with the Gulf mail service? The CHIEF SECRETARY (Hon. J. R. Dickwn, Bultrnba) replied- The Post nnd Telegraph Department has reason to believe that the A.U S.K. Company are prepared to sign the agreement for three years in connection with the Gull mail service on certain conditions, Supply. [21 DECEMBli]R.] Supply. 1513

HoN. E. B. FORREST (B,·isbane North) asked was entered into by which his salary was aug. the Chief Secretary, without notice-Has the hon. mented by £100, Owing to the expansion of the gentleman any objection to lay a copy of the department and the large increa~e of work, it contract on the table of the House now? had been found necess .• ry to provide for eighty The CHIEF SECRETARY replied-The additional officers, principally in the junior contract is not signed yet. If it is signed there grades. Two inspectors were provided for at will then be no objection to lay it on the table of salaries of £355 and £300. The necessity for the House. some system of inspection, both of officers and PAPERS. wail lines, had long been felt, and it was considered The following papers, laid upon the table, necessary, in c•rder to obtain incre:tsed efficiency, were ordered to be printed :- that more supervision was absolutely necessary. Further correspondence respecting oversea Under the heading of "Subdivisions," increases mail service to the Gulf ports. were asked for to enable the department to Return to an order, relative to grazing farm overtake necessary work clue to increased activity No. 182, Hug-henden district, made by thronghout the colony. The incr~asecl sum the House, on motion of Mr. Kates, on asked for" Conveyn,nce of mails coastwise,'' in­ the 13t.h instant. cluded the cost of the coastal services by the "Barcoo," etc., £13,000; and £5,000 was a8ked MOUNT MORGAN GAS AND LIGHTING for in connection with the proposed steamer COMPANY, LIMITED, BILL. service with the Gulf ports. It was probable THIRD READING. that in orcler to obtain an efficient service that This Bill was read a third time, and ordered sum would require to be supplemented. Pro­ to be transmitted to the Legislative Council for vision haO; Mr. "JYiiscellaneous services" scarcely called for any Bnzacott was promoted to be chief clerk at a rerr.arks. They were clue to expansion generally, salary of £500, and ecveral of the senior offi­ and to the more efficient maintenance of the cers of the dep~rtment obtained the advance­ telegraph and telephone lines of the colony. He ment due to th~no. Before he proceeded further, did not want to load the Committee with too he was justified in saying that he was sure much information. He preferred tn answer the country would recognise the good ser­ questions asked in connection with the working vices rendered to the State by the late U nrler of the department, but what he had said wou!J Secretary, whose retirement had not been due perhaps be sufficient in submitting the vote to in any sense to any want of vigour or the favourable consideration of the Committee. ability on his part, but simply to the fact that Mr. BROWNE (Croydon): It was the usual age came on them all, and that it was deemed thing to ventilate grievances on the first votP, and advisable, as he had arrived at a certain period he wished to refer to the matter of the m~il service of life, and was provided for under the Ci vi! to the Gulf. The Chief Secretary, in reply to a Service Act of 1863, that he should retire from question by the hon. member for Carpentaria, the service. That was the sole reason of his had said there was some sort of a.:reement retirement. Mr. McDonnell had been a very between the Government and the shippitog com­ excellent servant of the State, and had conducted pany, but it had not been signed. Practically the department for very many yen,rs with credit the same thing had been stated rivertwelvemonths to himself and great satisfaction to the Govern­ a!{o. He would like the Committee to under­ ment. Mr. Scott, from his long experience in stand the circumsbwces in which the people the office, would, he had no doubt, be equally of the Gulf had now been left for over eighteen efficient, and the department itself would be months. On the 30th June, 1B98, the contract found to advance with the requirements of the existing betwFen the Government and the country in a most satisfactory manner. It Australasian United Steam Navigation Com­ would be observed that there WE're certain pany expired, and tenders were called at that increases of salaries, in rpgard to which time for a fresh Northern mail service. He £7,G25 was required; £1,675 was asked for came to Brisbane in June, 1898, and he noticed increases to existing salaries. Of that amount, the advertisement calling for the tenders in the £1,170 would go to officers who had less than papers. It was for a service as far as Towns­ £200 per annum. Therefore-he wished to point ville and Cairns, and there was no mention of this out particnlarly-those officers who were the Gulf service. He interviewed and wrote to receiving small remuneration were receiving the Postmaster-General immediately on the most consideration at present. £507 of that matter, and on the 28th July he asked some amount went to officers who were receiving more questions on the subject in the House. The reply than £200. With the exception of those whose sal­ he got then was that there had been tenders aries were below £150, and for whom a general called for a Gulf mail o;ervice, but those sent in increase had been provided, salaries increased did not suit. :Fresh tenders were being called last year had not been augmented. Of that £507, for, and it was expected that the whole matter £100 went to Mr. Hesketh by virtue of a freeh would be fixed up. On the 24th November, agreement entered into during this year. His 1898, a deputation conAistingof t.he then member term of office had expired, and a new agreement for C1>rpentaria1 Mr. Sim, Mr. Rogers, mayor of 1514 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.]

Oroyilon, Alderman Knust, and Mr. Elmslie, had been up North, and he placed a sum of waited upon the Postmaster-General in connec· £50,000 on the Estimates for the pur· tion with the matter. Hon. W. H. Wilson, [4 p.m.] chase of a boat. The difficu!Ly was, theu Pos,master-General, had all sorts of sym­ that while all thau correspondence pathy, and he would like hon. members to take was going on, while the shipping company was notice of what that hon. gentleman said at the defying the Government, and while the Chan1ber time as reported in the Telegraph. He said he- of Commerce people were trying to enforce their Was aware that the Australasian United Steam views, the people of the Gulf were the sufferers. ~avigation Company had a monopoly there. That was They were being ground bttween three mill­ the reason why the Government were trying to get an stones. There was one feasible way out of the lndeJ endent vessel. difficulty, which he had placed on two or three The Telegraph in a leading article the same occasions before the Chief Secretary. Hon. afternoon or the following day said- members knew that there was a bar at the mouth of the Norman, which the Government If the Government cannot arrang-e with any of the steam shipping companies. they are bound to do some­ had promised to dredge, and there were also thing sub~tantial to assist the people of the North lighters and a hulk kept there by .Burns, to a regular corn m unication with, as the deputa­ Philp, and Oo. and the Australasian U.nited tjon put it, the civilised world. The Northern and Steam Navigation Company. They practiCally Gulf mails, dealing as they do with mining matters. are held a rnonop"'ly, becan'e no other boats were. at C:"pecially valuable, and demand special considera­ present likely to run down to the bar hut the1rs, tion. We repeat that if reasonable terms cannot bt· arranged with regular trading companies, the Go­ and they refused to allow anyone else to use vernment must take in hand t,hemselves the convey­ their lighters. No one could blame t.hem for ance of mails bv such steamer or steamers as wilt that, but he considered that, in view of the command both pUssenger and freight rates. extraordinary expense which Sir Hngh Nelson That was on the 24th November, 1898. When and Mr. Byrnes advocated in building a vessel to those Estimates were before the Committee hst run right round to the Gu:f, it was not asking year the hon. member for ]'assifern brought up too much that the Government should purchase the question of the Gulf mails, and on page 1656 lighters and a hulk. If that were done, other of Hansard o£ 2ht December last year it would pimple would be willing to send their b• ats round he fonnd that the then Premier said- there. He could not see that there was any dif­ ference between the Government building a They were now in treaty with two companies, and he hoped that within a very short time the public would wharf, or dredging a harbour, and owning a be informed that a contract had been entered into. lightering plant. And it was uot te,, and all SPrts of obstacles hud building purposes at Croydon, but the Aus­ been brought into the matter. He agreed that tralasian United Steam Navigation Compat,y the department had been trying to put an end to distinctly refused to carry it, and they refused the monopoly, but, as the Telegraph had pointed last week to put on an extra boat. In the out, they had the matter in their own bands, case of the school only onP tender was sent Bnrl he remembered that two years ago Sir in, and when be he:>rd of the contract price he Hugb Nelson had said that he would not allow was very much surprised, and thought it an any steamship company to run the Government. exorbitant figure. It was, however, pointed out The Hon. T. J. Byrnes said the same after he to him that the principal contractorB of Croydon [21 DECEMBER.] 1515 would not tender because they could not get Mr. FORSYTH (Oarpenta'ria) entirely Pn· any timber. A member of the firm of Dath, dors'd the remarks 1nade by the hon. member Henderson, and Co. had told him that they for Croydon, and was prepared to go further in had orders for 100,000 feet of timber for some respects. His impression was that the Croydon alone, and they had no way of getting Go,·ernmEnt did not want the service at all. it there. They did charter a little schooner, The CHIEF SECRETARY: That is a miscon• called the "Tom Fisher," but it was only able ception. to carry 25,000 feet, and the rest was lying in Mr. FORSYTH: It was most nnfair that a Brisbane, while the erection of the school was district like Carpentaria, which gave between delayed and the work of the mines was seriously £40,000 and £50,000 a year net revenue to the hampered. He thought if the Premier looked colony, should be left in its present condition as into the matter he woulr! see that it was not only to mail communication. Since June la;,t year, a question of mails. Hon. members would hardly when the mail tenders closed, they had been left credit it when he told them that a package of without anything. It was true that the company literature sent through the Post Offic<> from Bris­ rnnning then had carried on the service till the bane took forty-five days to reach Croydon. It end of the year; then the Government agreed to was federation literature, in which the Chief grant a subsidy for three months during the wet Secretary was very much interested. The season, but this was ostensibly given with secretary of the federation league in Brisbane the idea that at the end of the thre~ months sent it by mail on the 5th Augnst last, and it there would be no further subsidy, so that he a;rived at Croydon on the 20th September, did not think the Government had shown erghteen days after the referendum had been their bona fides in endeavouring to provide a taken, and it took about ten days longer to get mail service for the Gnlf. The hon. member for there than it would take to send the same package Croydon and himself called seyeral times on the to London. Some hon. members complained Postmaster-General in connection with the about not getting three mails a day to the places matter, and they had been told that he was in which they were interested ; but he thought trying to do his best all the time. Tenders were when they heard his story of a community called in July this year, and the time was striving to develop the far North of Queens­ extended to August to allow another firm to land being left isolated and at the mercy of tender besides the Australasian United Steam a shipping company, their sympathies would Navigation Company. He thonght it would be be aroused. He was not casting any blame a good thing to give somebody else an opportunity on the Postal Department, as they wem bound to tender, because the Government had practi­ to fight the company all they conld do. He cally been coerct·d into accepting any price the. did not blame the Brisbane Chamber of Australasian United Ste:>m Navigation Company Commerce for trying to do what it thought might ask. Ten or twelve years ago the Aus­ hest in the interests of Brisbane merchants; tralasian United Steam Navigation Company bnt he said the Government were distinctly were running a weekly service for £5,000 a year ; to blame, and that it was their duty to step afterwards they ran a fortnightly service for in and find a solntion of the difficulty. If £2,750 a year. When the company sent in they only put on a boat themselves for a time tenders they wanted £5,000 for a monthly service, for lightering, and offered a subsidy for carrying £9,000 for a three-weekly service, or £18,000 for mails, there would be boats running now; but at a wePkly service. Those figures were absolutely present a private monopoly was holding the absurd and exorbitant. The fact that other trade of the Gulf country and defying the postal companies could not get their lightering done at authorities, and it was about time something the Norman Bar had blocked them from tender· was done. He brought the matter up on the ing against the Australasian United Steam 20th October, and the hon. gentleman then Nftvigation Company. Six or eight weeks ago at the head of the Government said he was when the Australasian United Steam Naviga. plea>

Mr. \Vihon informed him that the matter had accept any contract which provided for any such arrived at such a stage that hA expected to bring absurd conditiettleq insirle of a fonnight. completed. He would undertake that it would He admitted that there were difficulties in con­ he completed in the next fourteen days. nection with the matter. He had tried to HoN. T. MAODONALD-PATERSON (Bris­ explain them, and he had expressed his regret bane North): He agreed with the observation~ that the papers h .d not been laid on the t•hle which had fallen from the hon. members for thu.t hon. members might see them. A great Croydon and Carpentaria r,,spectively. 'rhey many conflicting intereots had been brought into had his full sympathy in the disastrous period to the matter, and the Gulf people had been suffer­ which they had referred; a period of something ing all the time the friction had been going on. like two years, during which there had been a His contenti•m was that a strong GovernmPnt very unsatisfactory service--or no service at all­ should have stepped in long ago, and cut the maintained between Brisbane and the Gulf Gordian knot, so that the people of the Gulf ports. It appeared to him, having the history might have been gi<·en the facilities of com­ of that period, and having heard the Chief munication, which hon. member v;ould admit Secretary's explanation of the negoti ttions, that they were entitled to. \Vith regarrl to the it had be<"n really a case of Sydney and Mel­ five days' notice, he thought there was some bourne influence with the company. 'l'here was little misunderstanding about that, and there very little real sympathy with the devel<>pment was something to be said on both sides. He of what might be called the purely Queensland did not hold a brief on behalf of the company, trade. That was one of the difficulties. Then but had always gone the opposite way; yet, there was a difficulty in the Postmaoter· though Brisbane was the terminal port, he G,cmeral 's department. There had never been any thought no Government would be so unreasonable, sympathy in that department with subsidising when one of the boats had a lot of cargo for trade services. In the matter of a coach line to the Sydney, as to insist that it should be transhipp•:d interior, there had always been a doctrine that here and sent on by some other boat, when the thr;y should not sub,idise a line of coach•;s for the company had another boat to carry out the mail purpose of carrying passengers if they could get contract. With respect to southern cargo wait­ mails carried for one-third of the sum by'pack­ ing here for transhipment to the North, the horse. That dr·ctrine was really a sound one if it contention always was that space should first be came to be analysed. He should also like to say reserved for Queensland cargo, and the conten­ that this showed the great necessity there was tion of the company was that if t.hey had to for 1 he esta!olishment of a new department of keep the ship open to the ·last moment for State-namely, a department of commerce. It Queensland cargo, the southern cargo would be was not fair that the Postmaster-General's left on the wharf, and the ship might have to go Department sloonld be held responsible for the away nearly half empty. T~ey said that if development of trade services. It did not belong people wanted space on the sh1p for Queensland to it in any civilised country. The Postmoster­ cargo they should ll'ive five day"' notice, but if Chmeral's Department •hould not, for inst.ance, they did not rlo that, it did not follow that the be debited with the cost of the Vancouver cargo would not be taken, as if the ship had service, which cost between £6,000 and £7,000 room for it he had no doubt the company would per annu1n. be only too glad to take it. Seven d:tys' notice The CHIEF' SECRETARY: £7,i500. had first been asked for, and he thought the HoN. T. ~IACDONALD-PATERSON: That compromise suggested, reducing the notice to was the sum paid for the pleasure and gratific.~· four or five days, might meet the difficulty. He tion of making Brisbane the first port of arrival hoped the definite prowise given by the Chief and la't port of rleparture ; but £500 or £600 per Secrehry in the matter would be carried out, annum was about the value of the mail mattPr and that within a fortnight they would have a that was carried. That £7,500, however, was regular mail eervice to the gulf, as the hon. charged to the rlepartment, and it oug-ht not to gentleman had promised. be. It onght to be taken under the heading of Mr. FORSYTH was afraid that some gentle­ commerce or some other hf•,1ding. The hon. men who had sp•1ken on the matter did not member for Croydon had said that sick perHons understand the actual position. He believed could not come South for medical ad vice ; but that five days' notice would be a fair thing. he said that this service with the Gulf por•s Unined that when the steamer reached left on the wharf in Brisbane. Was that a fair Townsville there was no room for a single thing to the Northern people, the Brisbane package of stuff. If the terms of the contract people, or to the colony ? If they had to pay were that only Queensland cargo should be the subsidy they must have the benefits of the taken, Queensland in that case would mean service . Brisbane. He knew that for the last three .Mr. BROWNE: Has not Townsville as much trips Townsville cargo had been shut out. That right to claim consideration? They pay the was very unfair to his constituents. If there subsidy too. It is not Brisbane that pays the was a condition in the contract that Queensland subsidy. cargo should have preference, and so much space HoN. E. B. FORREST: Certainly. Though be reserved for Briobane and Townsville cargo, he had said "Brisbane" he was speaking of the he thought that that would meet all require­ whole of the Queensland ports. It was a mere ments. If the carrying capacity of the steamer matter of arrang•cmeut by the Austmlasian was 1,200 tons he should say that if five-sevenths United Steam Navigation Company. They of the space was reserved for Bri>'bane and could make inquiries, and c<•uld find out jnst Townsville the people should be satisfied. how much cargo they wue likely to get at the Hon. E. B. :B'oRREST: So they would be. Y on different ports, and they would know how much have not proposed anything of the sort. space they would want. There was no difficulty The PREMIER : He knew that for the last in it. It was merely a matter tor internal five or six months the Cabinet had been prepared arrangement, and nothing else. to grant a subsidy of £6,000 a year. The com­ Mr. DUNSFORD (Chartas Towers): It ap­ pany was willing to take £G,OOO a year, and it pP,ared that private enterprbe was treating was only the little petty details that had not Brisbane very badly. Produ~ers been arranged, which should have Leen arranged [5 p.m.] could not get their goods sent away, if the l:lrisbane people did not insist that ail the and consumers could not get the cargo should go from Bri,bane. It was only a goods they required. A recent Premier, unfor­ fair request to make that the Northern people tunately now no more, promised that there should be allowed to buy in whate;·er markets >hould be a State steamer on the coast. Why they wished. After all, the contract was more did not the Government keep that promise~ for their benefit than that of anyone else. They could do much better by running a steamer Shippers could get cargo taken to all Queensland for themselves instead of being depeudent upon ports as far as Thursday Island without the syndicate companies. I<'or eighteen months the Government paying any subsidy at all, but the companies had refused to meet the fair require­ Gulf ports, being out of the track of steamers, ments of North Queensland, and he thought it certainly deserved a little consideration. During was time that the Government rose to the occa­ the paot eighteen months they had not bteen sion, and met those requirements themselves. fairly considered. He kuew that the passenger 'rhe present Premier was a business man ; let steamers had been running very irregularly. him show his business capacity. He wanted to He suggested that the Brisbane people should ask the Chief Secretary whether it was likely be satisfied wich a certain proportion of the that the steamer running betwPen Gladstone and cargo space. Townsville-the "Barcoo"-would be continued HoN. E. B. FORREST : We are quite willing on the present terms? to take five-sevenths, as you propo,e, but there The PREMIER (Hon. R. Philp, Townsville) has been no such proposition made previously. thought thHy should take into consideration who The proposition has been that there should be the far Northern service was going to benefit. five dayo' notice given of intention to ship. \V as it to benefit the people of the North or the Any reasonable propooition cannot be objected to. people of Brisbane? It the people in North The PRIOMlER: He ha with Que,•neland wanted to buy goods in Sydney or the question, but was satisfied that any business Melbourne, why should they not be allowed to man could have fixed up the difficulty three or do so~ Brisbane people ought to give way a four months ago. little in order to bel p the Northern people. The UHIE.If SECRETARY: In reply to the Hon. E. B. FoRREST : 'l'hey are prepared to do question of tbe hon. member for Charters Towers that. in regard to the steamer running between Glad­ The PREMIER: The Northern people, as a stone and Townsville, he might say that the rule, b"nght the bulk of their goods in Brisbane, contract did not ex[Jire until October next. if they could buy them adva111ageomly. Some­ Referring to the Gulf service, he was informed times they had to go funher afield. Very often that the department had a"ked the Austmlasian Brisbane merchants purchased in Sydney, and United Stean1 Navigation Company whether he thought the people of North Queensland they were prepared tu accept, in lieu of five days' should be allowed to do the same. At the notice from Queensland shippers, a stipulation pr·sent time> there was a steamer going to that three-fourths of the whole carrying c:.pacity Normanton with mails without any subsidy, but of the steamers employed should be reserved for it was found that she did nut go oft en enough. Queensland carg... The department were await­ B"!> tbouf;ht ohe onl;r went every five or six ing a reply to that inquiry. The company was 1520 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. also asked whether they would agree that the member for Charters Towers in regard to there vessels employed should be of at least 500 tons being hardly any through pa•sengers from burden. Townsville on the railway between Gladstone Mr. MAXWELL asked if any provision was and Brisbane, anrl he agreed with the hon. being made in regard to the freight charges to member that the State had the worst of the be levied oy the company? If the Government bargain with the company. If the Govern­ were subsidising steamers, some such stipulation ment kept on this service, either by building should be macle. steamers of their own or arranging with some Mr. DU~SJ!'ORD: With regard to the mail company, Gladstone should be made the ter­ service between Ghdstnne and Townsville, he minal point, and there should be a service be­ did not think the Government had made a good tween Gladstone and Townsville twice a week. bargain for the Rttilway Department. It was In that way they would be bound to get true that the company ran a fast boat; but if passengers from the North. If the scheme any,me wanted to go from Townsville to Glad­ had not been drawn up so hurriedly last stone, the charge first. class was £5 lOs., the same year the Government wonld not have taken as frnm Townsville to Brisbane, and, of course, the action they di€1; but the service was only that inducecl pa:Jsengers to go on to Brisbane by for twelve months, and on the next occasion he boat instead of landing at Gladstone and com­ hoped it would be more carefully considered. If pleting the journey by mil, especially as the what he suggested were carried out, the rates bnat genervlly arrived in Brisbane within a few should be reasonable, and as the route was a hours of the arrival of the train. If there was a pleasant one·-being inside the Barrier Heef-iu diff3rence of £1 or £110s. between the fares, he smooth water, people would be induced tu travel harl no doubt that passengers would use the by the boat to Gladstone and then by train railway. If the agreement was amended, it Soui.h. As pre;;ent people, especially families, would 1·ay tht3 Railway Department to put on a did not care to break the journey, and so they fast train to induce passengers to complete the tra.velh•d all the jcmrney by boat. No doubt, journey by rail. He believed it was intended after the experience they had had, the next con­ that the rail way should be used by passengers in tract would be properly safeguarded. connection with the fast service, but it had failed Mr. S!YIITH (Bowen) was very glad that the in that respect. "With regard to theotherque,tion, Government intended to improve the present the Premier had justified the Northern merchants very unsatisfactory service to the Gulf ports. buying in the markets of the southern colnnies, 'l'hat had been a matter of great concern to the which t.hey contend~d were the cheapest, but if people in the far North for a length of time, that doctrine was carried too far it might mean because the service was intolerable the way it ruin to the farmers of SouthPrn Q•1eensland, had been carried on. He understood that a therefore he thought that full provision should steamer was being built to run hetween the be made for those people sending away their Gulf and Melbnurne, calling at ports. He knew goods direct to the consumer in the North. that s\lch a steamer h"d been ordered, and he ·when goods had to pass through many hands understood that it was likely to he completed in the middleman got a good portion of the profits, a short time. Such a bteam<,r would do away with and the Governmeut could do a great deal of the present monopoly. The hon. member for gor•d hy bringing together the producers and the Charters Towers was right in his remarks with consumers in Qt1eensland. The c0a"t line of regard to the mail service by the "Barcoo "; it was Queensland was of very hrge extent, and to do a very unsatisfactory service for paRsengers. It justice to the Queensla.nd seaboard it was was all right as far as going North was concerned, egsential that there should be operating within because the train met thej steam~r in Gladstone, the limits of our own coast either a private but when passengers were gumg South, the shipping company or a State shipping service. steamer might get in hours before the train He believed there was need for a special rcervice started. It was a great mistake that the train for Queenslanrl, and he hoped the Govemment and steamer service should not be made to suit would do their best to bring that about. each other, as it was a great inconvenience for HoN. T. IviACDONALD.PATERSON: The persons to have to wait in Gladstone for hours be­ initiatory stages of the Port Curtis-Towns­ fore the train started. It was never intended that ville service were discussed in London and persons should be inconvenienced in that way. He eisewhere by the late Hon. T. J. Byrnes and always under.tood that the trains and steamers himself, and it wae brought about by consider­ should run in conjunction, but that had not been ing the excellent steamboat services provided by so. Another anomaly had been pointed out. by the private railwav companies of thnt kingdom. the hon. member for Charters Towers. The H,; h11,d always hPld that the Port Cmtis-Cleve­ fare from Townsville to Gladstone was exactly land Bay service should be by Government the same a.s it wa" from Townsville to Brisbane stea,mers. They did not hesitate to order twenty­ by the ordinary A.U.S.N. boats. There should five or fifty locomotivee, and for the price of fifty be a rliiferential rate. No passenger would go locomotives they could put on two crack twenty­ by the Glaclstone route unless there was a knot bo:,ts-which was quite within the province differential rate, and the Australasian United of the }~ail WRY Commissioner os a" carrier." The Steam Navigation Company did not make any hon. member for Charters Tower", Mr. Duns­ difference in the charges in this respect, and the ford, had referred to our great coast line ; and it coastal tickets were not available for the "Bar­ w.;s thPir duty to link the great centres of popu­ coo." The service was altogether unsatisfactory, lat.ion and the mining and commercial iaterests and he hoped that under the new contract better along the ccast, and the steamer service should arrangements would be made. not be owned by people whose desire it would he to Mr. GIVENS (Cairns): Was very plea;;ed to kill the (~

:tllowed to p:tssengers travelling by train from hon. gentleman wnuld see that other coastal Gladstone to Brisb tne. If a passenger was towns in the colony were supplied with the forced to g.•t out at Glads•.oneand goon by train reports, which were very important and very tu .Brisbaue, he was not allowed a single f>ing mail services, whether they should mail-distributing centres in Queensland. 'l'he p-~rchase ste:uners, whether mails should he mails for the Gulf country, for 'Jroydon, for the carried by rail, and fifty oLher things, and he Etheridge, and even Normanton, were taken thougll t he was as much in order as any of the frum Clony in that respect, and he should like coal at Gladstone. In that way almost the to have an explanation of the matter from the whole of the colony would benefit by the fast Minister. Sflr\ icf:, which at the present time only benefited 'l'he CHIEF SECRETARY: At the present a section of the colony. It might have been time meteorological information was supplied to said that the town of Cairns had been benefited the different ports of the colony, thoug-h nut by the service, but that was not so, because it perhaps in such an elaborate furm as io was was no nearer Briobane as regarded mails than given in Brisbane. He underotood that thd it was under the old arrallgement, under whieh telegraph lines were so loaded with business letters posted on Saturday in Brisbane were that if verbt arrive until a late hour in the gentleman would asHure the C>mmittee that the evening ; she was d~layed by the lnfltter would receive consideration. tide or some other thing aL the J ohnstone River. The OHIE:F SECRETARY: The hon. mem­ The PHEi\IIER: She is due on vVednesday ber mnon the advisabllity of the ert·ction of a buildiPg which would meet all the requirenwnts of the town and dis­ West~rn distribution. The objedion seemed trict for m~:tny years to come. If the presP-nt rate of reasonable, became he understoPd it "ould increase to business contiuues, in a year or two at most seriously interfere with the accelerated mail the prs,sent internal space will be tobtlly inadequate to service with Western portions of the N, rth if permit of the busine~s being r one with despatch and anv alteration were made. accuracy; but for the immediate future the space at :Mr. GIVENS: There was another matter he command is sufficient inside the office. The counter space m1ght be enlarged as su~gested by Inspector wi,hed to bring under the notice "f the hon. Brig-ht; but I think it would be better to refer tbis gentleman. Th~>t was the duplication nf the point to the inspector of work~. :Mr. Park, ·who will be Northern telegraph system by connecting Gerald­ in Cmrns in a fortnight's time, when I shall confer with ton and Cairns by telegraph. It was brought him as to the best plan to provide additional counter to the notice of the Government many year" ago, accommodation, and forward you his suggestions and a nnd it was definitely ~ettled by the late Premier Tough plan showing the proposed alterations to increase (Hon. T. J. Byrnes) that it wuuld be clone. He the counter accommodation as soon as Mr. Park may was also under the impression, but he would not have time to devote to this work. say it was a fact, that the present Premier had The matter was receivin.g the earliest considera­ also made a prumise that it should be done. tion, He thought that, in connection with these The PRE)!IER : I do not remember it. buildings, it would be inadvisable to put up new Mr. GIVENS: There were frequent inter­ buildings which, in a few years, might become ruptions in the telegraph system throughout totally inadequate in a rising town such as Northern Queensland ; but by connecting Cairns. Geraldton alld Cairns-the distance was only Jlilr. GrVENS: Why not do it now? sixty miles-it would give a complete duplica­ The CHIEI<' SECRETARY: They could not tion of the whole systt>m, so that if or,e system do a11ything now because no money had been broke down the other would be available. As voterl ; but consideration would be given to the this mattbr had been uuder consideration for a question of erecting a building which would be long time, and there was a definite promise at commensurate with the growth of the district in one time by the late head of the Government, it the future, and which would, no donbt, be pro­ was the duty of the Government to carry it into vided for in the next Estimates. effect at the earliest possible moment. Mr. MAXWELL: He had asked the hnn. The CHIEI<' SECRET.ARY: He did not gentleman a question about an hour ago, and he think the matter had ,been lost sight of by the had not got a reply to it. Had the Government department. The 1·eport on the duplication was made any provision in the agreement to be being prepared, and in a very short time it entered into with the Australasian United Steam would be ready to forward to the Postmaster­ Navigation Company for the Gulf mail service General. It was recognised that a promise had about thA rates of freight? been made, and that the service was necessary, The UHIEI<' SECRETARY: He must apolo­ and, under those circumstances, no time would gise to the hnn. gentleman for not replying to be lost in proceeding- with it. his question ; but there had been so many inter­ Mr. GIVENS: There was one matter that he vening suhjects that he thought he rrlight be had been desired by the Chamber of Commerce excused. The rates of freight had heen assented of Cairns to bring to the notice of the Com­ to by the department, and, he hoped, by the mittee. That was the very disgraceful building contractors. The rates were- in which postal and telegraphic business was l\felbounle to Gulf ports, 15s. pPr ton more than from carried on at Cairns. It was built fifteen or Brisbane; Sydney to Gulf ports, 10s. per ton more than from Brisbane; Towtlsville and Thursday Island, 10s. sixteen years ago, when the town was very and 20s. per ton, respectively, less. small ; but Cairns had grown out of all recogni­ tion of late. The department had recognised Mr. MAXWELL: \Vhat will the freight be from that the place was too small, and had built Brisbane? skillion after skillion until it "as a mass of 'rhe CHIEF SECRETARY: It will be 10s. shreds and patches. The secretarv of the l'lss than from Sydney. Chamber of Commerce, writing on "the 13th Mr. MAXWELL: Well, what will that be? instant, said- The CHIEF SECRETARY: That would be The business had outgrown the building, and the current freights, he supposed; but he would chamber thinks a new and suitable building should be inquire. (After a pause.) The company did erected, in:stead of wasting 1noney in patching up the not bind them"elves to maintain a certain rate. :present collect,ion of patches. They only bound themselves to maintain the That exactly de> in the development of the colony as a whole as it would have their \Vest,lrn aistricts. provided a subsidiary line, and more direct Mr. W. HAMlLTON: Another phase of the communication between Brisbane and Adelaide. qunt wm1ld do well to veople of those rlistricts laboured under great extend the system to Birdsville, and if they did disabilities, and it should be remembered that the South Australian Government would com­ the extension of the telegraph system was re­ plete the commnnication betwePn the two colonies. quired for pioneering and development work in Mr. LEAHY (Bulloo): Before the Chief those districts. The depart,ment apparently Secretary replied he had a few words to say on took no action, because they did not see that it the subject. Though not exac,ly in the way the was going to pay working expenses from the hon. member for Gregory had brought it up, that start. matter had been before the House for the last Mr. LEAHY: It has paid in New South \Vales two or three years. New South \Vales had in conjunction with the telephone system. entirely eclipsed our Telegraph Department in 1\Ir. W. HAMILTON : It would pay in­ the matter of the extension of the telegraph directly, and the pastoralists of that part of the system, in conjunction with the telephone country required some consideratinn. They had system. All over New South \Vales the system never had any yet, though thev had been two or h.>d been extended, and townships which were three years asking for relief legislation. not large enough to bear the expen,e of a tele­ The CHIEF Sl<~t'RETARY: The department graph master were, by the telephone system, had been bv no means idle in connection with connected with telegraph stations fifty and those telephone stations, the henefits of which 100 mile, away, and the business was carried they thoroughly recognised. Hon. memberr;, on on profitably. It was well known oh at the great referring to the report of the dep:trtment, would expense in connection with telt'gtavh extension find that on the lBt Ma.y, 1R98, there were hut was the s~lary of £300 or £400 a year required twenty-eight telephone stations in existence, and for a telegr~ph master at the end of a line. That now there were forty-five. expense ran into more than Lhe interest on Mr. LEAHY : Where are they ? the cost of construction. If they could over­ The CHIEF SECRETARY: Amongst other come the difficulty, as they had done in places such stations appeared to have been estab­ New South \Vales, he did not see why a lished at Cunnamulla and Hebel. With regard similar system could 110t be extended over the to the proposed extension from \Vindorah, the whole of our back country. The bnsiness in those approximate est,imate of the cost was about \Vestern districts, in proportion to population, £12,000, and the department appeared to think would be far in excess of the busine's d,me inside. there was at present no justification for the 1\I:my and large business transactions httd to be expenditure, and the question of the ultimate carried on in C•l!llledion with the sale of stock, connection with the South Australian lines was and it was of the utmost import~nce that they not yet suffich"ntly ripe for decision. should h:we speedy communications with the Mr. W. HAMfLTON said he had not yet different towns and cities of . A had any reply to hi" question as to whether the matter of £50 in telegraphing was nothing at all dep:utment was sympathetic towards the request sometime,, compared with the Ios; that might be he had made. sustained t,hrongh the want of telegraphic com­ The CHIJ~J<' SECRETARY : The depart­ munication. The Government should take a ment was thoroughly sympathetic lesson from New South \Vales in the matter, [7 p.m.] with the idea of extending tele- and he was sure it would result in an enormous phone communication in the far revenue i-or the depa(tment. All New South West, but he could not at the present moment \Vales, along the southern boundary of Queens­ say thot the Government were sympathetic to bud, enjoyed the benefits of the telet(raph in the extent of e'itending to Birdsville. It would conjunction with the telephone system . involve a large amount of expenditure-not less .iYir. \V, HA>IILTON : Our lines do not extend than £30,000-and the department observed that ]JM•t \Vindorah, your way, or pa•t Boulia the there was no justification for the expenditure to other way. connect Birdovdle with the intermediate town­ Mr. LEAHY: In the season like the )Jresent ships. He might sty that. the extension of the the stations outside could not send in a man w1th telephone 'ystem in the \V tstern districts was a a tel<•gmph mess'lg;e to \Vindomh or Bonlia under matter which the department had thoroughly a oust of about £15, and if t-hey m'de use of the at heart, and which they intended to telephone sysoem in conjunetion with their tele­ P"Y attention to as thA financial ability graph system it should not c-1st more than 2s. or of the country permitted. Hon. members 3s. He rel.(retted that after the action taken must hy no means imagine that the telephone during the last year or two by the hon, member and telegra!Jh departments had been idle during 152t Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. the past twelve months, and he might be per­ another township called Barrirgun. There was mitted to read a list of works that had engaged no telegraph office at Wooroorooka, and all the their attention: Townsville and Charters Towers meoc'ages for people on the Queensland side of -a new copper wire was being erectecl betwe•·n the burder went to Barringun, and now there those places for telephone purposes. New works was no messenger at Barringun a ~reat deal of awaiting attention were-Hnghenden to Charters inconvenience was experienced by the people of 'l'owers, new wire ; Gilberton to Croydon, re­ \Vo

That was to say, they agreed to the space increases. The desire seemed to be that the mentioned by the Premier, three-quarters of the highly or fairly well paid officers should have space being reserved in stoamers fnr cargo frorn their position placed well before the authorities. the Southern portion of the colony ; and the five There were nineteen people in the department days' notice referred to an arrangement in regard who only got £GO, and seven who only got £80. to space required by shipper;; of goods ; so that Those were v~ry low salaries, and on behalf of the views expressed by the hon. member for those officials he hoped the department would Brisbane North were now fully met; and he consider their salaries, because they were entitled saw no reason why the contract should not be to 1nore remuneration. completed within a fortnig-ht. Jliir. McDONNELL agreed with the hon. Mr. McDONNELL (Fortitude Valley): He me m her for :Flinders with regard to the low would like to bring under the notice of the hon. salaries paid to some of the officials in the gentleman in charge of these Estimates the ca,e department, but at the same time he thought of two officers in the Telephone Dep:trtment­ that hon. gentleman had gnne out of his way to a Jiiir. Nelson and Mr. vV atson. The matter had c •rtain extf\nt in e'ALD : I did not. done in the erection of the metallic switchboard Mr. ivicDONNELL : He was rather sur­ in the telephone office. Mr. Watson, after twenty prised at the hon. gentleman's remarks, as he years' service, was only gett.ing .£240, and Mr. had always been a stickler for raising men's Nelson, after thirteen ye,,rs' service, £140. Mr. wagt>'l, but he had expressed himself on the vVatson was in charge of the Telephone Depart­ matter without knowing anything at all about it. ment, and Mr. Nelson was his assistant. They If the hon. member had seen the work done by built the metallic switchboard, and had received both those gentlemen at the tele­ great praise for that work. In this way they had [7'30 p.m.] phone f·xchangP he would have been saved the country a large sum of money, and these one of the first to ad vacate their officers' gaJaries should he increaser!. It was true chims. He (Jiiir. McDonnell) agreed that that they had received overtime allowance for the the lower paid officers in the department were work he referred to, but fur the last thirteen deserving of larger salaries than they recei v<>d at years Mr. \Vatson had only received two the present time, but all the same he believed that advances and Mr. Nelson one. In the opinion J\fe,srs. \Vat~on and Nelson were far cheaper to of Mr. Hesketh, the engineer, they were excel­ the State at .£240 and £140 per annum respect­ lent men. The work in connection with the ively than the junior officers who were receiving erection of the metallic switchboard entailed a only £60 a year. great am~>nnt of labour, and he thougnt there Mr. LBSINA (Clermont) was aleo astoniohfd were very few men in Australia who could have at the attitude assumed by the hon. member for undertaken that work. \Vh€n the State had J!'linders. He should have thought that the two such excellent men, with splendid technical hon. memhw's long experience in the House as and professional knowledge, the Government to the attitude of the Government towards should recognise their worth more subetantiallv. persons who occupied very low positions in the Jf any other professional man had undertaken Civil Service would have convinced him, if he the work it would have meant a great expense to was of an <>hservant turn of mind, that the the Government. Go,·ernment never added to the wages of the The CHIEF SECRETARY: He recognised lower paid men in the servic'', but generally that the two officiab referred to were excellent gave increases to men who were well paid. men. :Mr. \Vatson's name was almost a house­ \Vho were the low-paid persons in the service hold word in connection with telephone m·,tters that they should demand an increase in their in Brisbane, but the work in connection with the sahries? It was a well-known political maxim erection of the metallic switchboard was clone of the lJresent Government that only persons after hour•, and these two gentlemen had received who were well paid should get increases in their overtime pay for it. Mr. Nelson received an in­ salaries, and it was sacrilege for the hon. crease last year, and Mr. Watson was put down member for J!'linders to suggest that low­ fnr an increa~e this yea!', It was not the rule to paid officers should have their remuneration give two increases consecutively. No doubt increased. If a man was getting £600 a year these officers would receive promotion according let him recci ve .£700, if one got £700 let him to their merits, as they were well worthy of extra have £800, and if another had £DOO a year let rPn1uneration. have £1,000; and let the person who wa• getting Mr. McDONNELL was very pleased to hear £GO a year get £60 and no more. If such a the remarks of the Chief Socretary. He had doctrine as that enunicated by the hon. member pointed out that these two officers had received fpr Flinders were allowed to influence the overtime pay for the work they h~d put in ; but Government of this country, the result would be this work was of such a special character that he chaos, dis 1ster, and ruin. \Vhy should they thuught they were entitled to some more ladle out with a lavish hand tl->8 funds which remuneration than they Lad received. Last were naturally intended for the ben~fit of persons year, it was thought that they should receive in receipt of large salaries? Why should they some extra remuneration in the shape of a sub­ squander their sub,tance in increasing the stantial increase in their salaries. The hon. salaries of persons receiving £60 a year? If gentleman would recognise that the salaries they did that those peroons would become givE>n to men of such high ability were not fat and extravagant, and extravagance was adequate, after their long service, and he hoped one of the vices of the ponr. Let hon. that he would bear these cases in mind, •md do a members recogni'e at once that those persons fair thing bv increasing their salaries next year. who were down at the bottom of the ladder, and The CHIEF SECRETARY : He would doing the every-day bullocking work of the report the matter to the Postmaster-General, service, were not entitled to receive any more and no donbt it would receive full consideration. than they got. An eminently wise Government Mr. MoDONALD (Flinde.·s) thought these had seen fit to give them tho'e salaries and no officers were fairly well paid, and they had more, and they should certainly thank God for received overtime for the special work they had them. He was certainly in accord with the performed. He did not begrndge them that, but Government in their evident desire to grease the there were others in the department who got fat pig. By giving well-paid Civil servants very low salaries, who had not been put down for higher salaries, and persons in the lo<. er grades 1526 [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. of the service lower salaries, they would make sented. a large sum of money in the aggregate, Queensland a happy aud prosperou" country. and when it came befor<> the Treasurer he was Let the community understand that that was more likely to strike it out than he was in the the policy of the Government. case of increases in smaller department>, whet e The CHIEF SECRETARY : lt is not the policy of even a substantial increase to the limited number the Government. of men in those departments would not frighten Mr. LESINA: That was the policy of the him in the same way as an increase in the Post Government, and he was certainly in accord with and Telegraph Department. He was quite the Government in the matter. He was sur­ certain that the £1,700 of which the hon. gentle­ prised to hear the junior nwmber for Charters man spoke was a very small percentage increase. Towers and the hon. member for Flinders Comparing it with other depart111ents, he had abusing the unfortunate Civil servants w!JO come to the conclusion that it was a misfortune managed ta sweat along on £700 a year, and to be in a department where the employees were managed to make both ends meet by most despe­ ntunerow;;. mte contrivances. Mr. GLASSEY (Bundaberg) noticed, on page Mr. STEW ART: Some of them don't. \14 of the Estimates, that there were two Mr. LESINA: Some of them did not even do insj:ectors appointed this year, whose salaries that on their enormous salaries. Therefore, if were respectively £355 and £300. He alw they accepted a doctrine such as that which had observed an additional clerk at £260. He been popularised by the hon. memher for Flin­ desired to know what were the duties of those ders, they would lay the foundation-stone of a inspectors, who they wHe, and where they had pernicious principle, and they should certainly to inspect. He al8o desired to call the attention nip iG in the bud. The old scriptural motto, of hon. members 1 o the case of the young man "To him that bath shall be given, and from him Spencer, who had recently been in the post that bath not shall be taken away even that office in Georg-e street. He had known the which he bath," had largely influenced him in young man's father for many years, and knew coming to that opinion, and that was the mntto that he was a most respectable man. He asked which the Clovernment had framed and kept in if it was fair to placP any young man, drawing their private offices. To him that bath £GOO a salary of £80 a year, in a position of responsi­ should be given £700 was. undoubtedly, a very bility, and w her8 he had large ,ums d money popular motto with the persons who received in his custody, without having some distinct that salary, and in future his voice should cer­ regulation that all moneys should be banked tainly he ra.ised on all occasions on behlllf of the every day. The case should be a warning to down-trodden persons in the senice who re­ heads of departments not to put men in respon­ ceived large •alaries, and hr hereby gave notice sible position" who received such miserable to the junior memher for Charters Towers and salaries, and who were exposed to the tempta­ the hon. member for Flinders that, whenever they tions of modern civilisation. He emphasised the raised their mellifiu.•us voices against those per­ remarks of the hon. member for Flinders. He sons in the Civil Service who were in the receipt had drawn the hon. member's attention to of large salaries, he would offer a violent protest twenty-six junior clerks, seven of whom were against their attackR. down for £80 per annum, and nineteen for £60. The CHIEF SECRETARY said that the He did not know the ages of those young men, policy of grea,;ing the fat pig, which the hon. but he presumed that some of them had arrived m~mber for Clermont had been advocating, was at years of maturity; some might have been in by no means the policy of the Government. The the depa1tment for a cont-iderablelength of time, total amount of increases on the Postmaster­ and some might even be married. He knew the General's E.,timates was £1,677, and of that department fairly well, and he thought the pre­ amount no less than £1,170 was devoted to sent head of the departuwnt was a progressive augmenting the salaries of officers in rcceipt of man, who would see that the department was less than £200 per annum. £100 was required worked in a better manner than it had been for to provide for the renewed engagement of the some years, and who would see that all persons Government Electrician, and the remaining £407 were remunerated according to the work per­ only was for increases to men in receipt of £200 fose Mr. FISHER (Gympie): There was an im­ young men. There was a yonng man in his dis­ pression amongst the lower paid men in the trict-he did not wish to single him out, but he Post and Telegraph Department that they could would bring his case under the notice of the not receive the same consideratinn as the men in Under Secretary in tbe course of a few days­ other departments on account of the number of who was twenty-two years of age, and who was employees in the department. A very sm,.l! g<'Hing only £70 a year. Surely that was not percentage of incre~>se to the individual repre- enough! Some of these junior clerks were married Supply. [2i DECEMBER.] Supply. men. How was it possible for them to put was true that he had been receiving only £80 a that energy and enthusiasm into their work year, but he had ju>t been admitted into the that they should do, when they were re­ classified division of the Public Service-he had ceiving this miserable pittance? What the entered as a messenger-without examination, department should do was to pay their men and, if he had proved his integrity, he would reasonably, and, at the same time, insi ncer was receiving·. to work was not conducive to their well-being. Although he thought it was generally desirable Let them have shorter hours, even if more hands there "hould be a regulation that a m'-Ln should had to be put on. He merely mentioned these be relieved of cash by banking it at the earliest matters to draw the attention of the Chief Secre­ possible moment, circumstances might occur tary and the present Postmaster-General-who, when a man might have to hold his Ciish, which, by the way, was an old friend of hi~, and who to an hones" man, would be a matter of regret, W•>nld, he was sure, see ju"tice done to every and to a dishonest m>1n all the safeguard" in the person employed in the department-to them. world would not (Jrevent him from gratifying He wished to pay a tribute, too, to the present his pa;sion for acq nisition. As to the second Under Secretary, who had been occupying- a question asked by the hon. member for Bunda­ subordinate position for many years. He had had bt•rg, as to the necessity for these inspectors and occasion tn find fault with him from time to time; th,,ir names, the first one was Mr. Bright, who but he thought that now he had been placed in a had been a very long time in the service, and responsible po~ition, where his hands would not "as to receive £355 per annum. The other be tied by a superior officet·, he would see th"t inspector,' who was to get £300, had not been the department was worked more efficiently and appointed. The necessity for these officers was effectually, and more for the benefit of the so obvious that it was hardly necessary to poorly paid officers in it, than had been the case explain why they should be appointed. in the past. He was a progressive m tn, and he Mr. GLASSEY: 1 think inspectors are required. was sure that, with the present Postmaster­ The CHIEF SECRI the department. The appointment to the second r~muneration he received. of those positions was s·.ill under consideration. Mr. GLASSEY: That is true. Still, the:·e is 'I' he present Under Secretftry agrePd with the temptation. sugg-estion of the hon. member for Bnndaberg, The CHIEF SECRETARY: If the history that the different grades and the p•,y attached to of crime were searched, it would be founrl that them should appear on the Estimates. He the larger and more exten for extra people. cost of living. At Roma and Mitchell Civil Mr. De!'I'SFORD: If you did not overwork those servants rfceived h. a day extra, and in common in the department you might find work for a few justice those living at Clermont should receive of the unfortunater· outside. just as much, considering that the cost of living The CHIEF SECRETARY: He thought was as great. At Longreach and Barcaldine the there was too gre'"t a tendency to excite con· allowance per d::y was~k and ls. 6d., respectively. sider,.tion for the people employed in the public He knew persons in the Olermont district who service, when they knew that thne were had C<•me from Longreach and Barcaldine, but thousands of men and women outside the service whose allowance was not continued on transfer. who would be very pleased to get employment In that respect, therefore, !Je considered that the on the same terms. 'While he did not dmy that Olermont officers were very unfairly dealt with. fair and reasonable remuneration should be paid He would also point ont that the necessaries of to them, hon. members might go too far in life in Olrrmont cost lOO per cent. more than exciting a feeling that the Government servants they did in Brisbane. There was a place at were employed as slaves. The Government were least lOO miles north of Clermont, Avon Downs, prepared to rlo what was just and reasonable, where the postal nfficer received very harsh not only for the telephone attendants, but for treatment. He received ls. a day as extra cost those employed in every other department of the of living. He had to procure all his supp:ies State. from Olermont, the cost of carriage being £6 a Mr. GLASSEY hoped the hon. gentleman ton; but on accOlmt of his requirements being would not imagine for a moment that he thought so small, carriers refused to take goods to him the persons he had referr• rl to were oppr""sed at that rate of carriage. He maintained that if at all. What he said was that the peculiar Longreach and Barcaldine officers received nature of their work, and the fact that it v :.ts 2s. and ls, 6d. a day as an extra living done at high pressure, necessitated ·frequent allowance, when the trains ran right past the changes for relief. He was sme the electrical doors of the officers, the man at Avon Downs engineer, who was a IDBn of eminence and was entitled to something more substantial than 9,bilit,y, and who, he thought, was not ovPrpairl, he at present received. He was informed that would not insist upon those nnd~r him enduring the school teachers at Olermont received the anything verging upon the oppressive but from same allowance as that given to officers at Long­ his own observations he thought that two hours reach and Barcaldine, yet persons in the Post:tl of the kind of work the switchboard attendants Department received no allowance at all. They had to perform was enongh, without relief. therLfore had the anomaly of officers of the Gn~ He ;would like to say that the policy of em­ vernment living along"ide of one another in the ploymg femal<>s at work for which by nature same town being tr·<~ated altogether diffrrently t:1ey were adapted was the right policy, and in the matter of DllowanceR. He underbtood he made the suggestion that the work of the that the Public Service Board were drawing UJ• a young men handing out letters at the window :J, new ;cale of aJl,wances; and if they were, he and the sale of stamps, was work eminontly fitted hoped that the Minist< r in charge of the depart­ for women. It w"' said that if females were ment would see that. the interests of the Olermont put iuto snch places they would talk and chat officers were &afeguarcled. The present practice and so forth, but in his tr.wels in diff~rent part~ undoubtedly gave rise to a great deal d com­ of I he world he had founrl that women were as plaint and ill-feeling. attentive, and felt the responsibility of such The CHIEF SECRETARY: As the matter posit.ions, as much as men. He urged upon the had been rermsented by the hnn. m~mber, it new Postmaster-Gem·ral and the officials of t.be seemed hut a matter of common justice that all dep.artrnent .the adv!sabiiity of extending that officer" of the publicRervice should be tn·ated alike, policy, and find openmgs for the employment of but ther< sponsibility reRted entirely with the Pub­ females which had been barred to them in the lic Service Board. He really could not say what pa,t. principle guided them in making allowances for The OIITEF SECRETARY: He might inform extra cost of living, but he was informed that the Committee, as a matter of interest, t.hat the department h•d freqnently remonstrated nominally the bouts of those females were eight with the board on the subject of allowances to per diem, and they worked seven. I'hey had a its officers. He could only say that, if the board res\ after €'very two hours. were engaged in revising the regnlationR on the Mr. LJs he receh'ed an allowance for the extra were passed. cost of living. If the Public Service Board were An HONOURABLE MEMBER: '\Vhat salary i~ he rlrawing up a new scale "f allowance" for extra getting now? co't of living, he hoped that justice would be The ORIEl!~ SECRETARY : He understooa done to the public servants in the Olermont that he occupied the position of second on the district. Another matter to which he wished to Supply. [21 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1529 refer was the sendil g- of O.H.M.S. telegrams. Mr. McDONNELL was glad to hear that There was a r"gulation to the effect that anyone that was going to he di•continued, sending an O.H.M.S. telegram was required to [8·30 p.m.] but he understood it had been in make the following declnration :- operation for smne thne. I hereby declare that the tran~mis·;;ion of the above The CHIEP SECRETARY : It was quite a recent message by electric te1rgraph is necessary for the public request-non more than a month ago. service; also, that it does not contain any words relat· Mr. McDONNELL: He would be quite satis­ ing to matterN of a private nature; and that it is tendered in accordance with the regulations for trans­ fied if the regulation was re;cinded. He thought mission of 0 .H .:\I .S. busine~-;. it was unfair to keep Mr. J\!Iurray at his work It was provided that only public servants should till 8 o'elock on Saturday nights. send those messages, and that it anyone else 1'he CHIEI<' SECRETARY: Quite unnecessary. sent an O.H.M.S. message it should be initialled Mr. McDONNELL : Yes. At the same by a J\.finister. The hon. member f<>r Cook, Mr. time, he asked if Mr. Mnrray received any J. Hamilton, recently sent the following tele­ overtime for working late at night when the g-ram to the Cooktown Independent, the Torres House was sitting. Strait Pilot, and the Townsville Bulletin ;- The CHU:>' SECRETARY: That is not a mattAr for the Post Office. ~Iinistry formed to-day purely Labour They will be promptly ejected to-morrow and old Government Mr. McDONNELL understood that Mr. returned to power with Philp Premier. Mut'ray w.H an officer of the department, and That telegram was written on an O.H.M.S. form, that the House had nothing to do with his and he wished to know the name of the JYiinister salary. who initialled the telegram. The CHIEF SECRETARY: It must be The CHIEF SECRETARY said he had no borne in mind that the duties of this officer were means of informing the hon. gentleman. He quite nominal during the recess, and he was no had nothing to do with it, at any rate. more entitled to consideration than the other Mr. McDONNELL said he had a couple of officers of the House were; but it was intended to letters from officers in charge of country post give Mr. Murray a position outside the House, offices statmg that they worked long hours where he would have regular hours. without overtime, and they understood that Mr. McDONXEI,L : By wtty of promotion? officers in the metropnlitan district rec3ived The CHIEF SJ~CHETARY: Yes. overtime pay when they worked longer than the Mr. LESINA : Amongst the correspondence S!Jecified hours. He wiHhed to know whether in connec~ion with the leasing of the Barron th•0 re were ··et hours of work, and, if so, v.. hat :Falls to the Chillagoe Company, there was a was the number of hours; also, if those officials wire, which had been desr,atched by the Minister received overtime in the metropolitan district. for Agriculture, from Mackay on iYim·ch the The CHIE:l<' SEOllETARY : The official 2nd, 1:->nu. H read: "P"rhaps Chillagoe ma.tter hours were from H in the morning till 6 in ;he better wait my return There seems no particular L vening, but officers were expected to work on hurry Dalrymple and self doing weli." That an emergency even later than those hours wa' sent to the Hon. 11r. Barl01v, Brish"ne. He without overtime pay. would like to know why wires of this character J\.lr. Gr.ASSEY: That often arises. should be sent "t the expense of the State, when The CHIEF SECRETA!tY: Yes, it fre­ Mr. ChatawRy and Mr. Dalr:vmpleweredrawing quently arose; but there was a special allowance such enormous incomes? \Vhy should they not fund which they ttll received in the mail branch pay the cost of such wires themeelveH ? lYir. as compensation for the calls on their time which Barlow was told that they were doing well at arose under those exigencies. Chillagoe. Mr. McDONNELL : The officers to whnm he The CHIEP SECRETARY : He was Acting Minister ~eferred were officers in charge of post of!lces in for Lands at the time. country districts. He also wished to refer to the Mr. L"ESINA: He knew that, but these two post office in Parliament House. He understood gentlemen h<1d been enjoying a holiday and had that the present vostma.S of the countrv with They were doing especially well with regard to regard to the receipt and despatch of marls, for t11eir connection with the present Government. which they received no overtime. It was con­ There was a certain vagueness about the wire sidered that as they had the advantage of living about which the House should get some informa­ on the premises they should be available when tion. He did not know wht;ther the argument of called upon to transmit and receive mails, what­ "Sergeant Buzfuz," in the "Pickwick Papers," E'ver the hour might be, without any extra was going to he adopted, but he would like to remuneration. \Yith regard to Mr. Murray, he know why the State should pay for such wires, was informed that the new order onlv came into or whether Mr. Dalrymple and Mr. Chataway operation recently, and arose from a request made had dipped their hands into their pockets and by the Honomable the Speaker for the con fished out a certain bob and paid for the wire. venience of hon. members. He believed it was A Minister might go down south, or further carried out last Saturday, and it might have afield, and cable that he was doing well, or he arisen from the fact that they sat till 1 o'clock might go to Norfolk Island and cable that he was on Saturdny-perhaps members were lingering perfectly s >her on a certain date. The country about tl n their whether the Post Office could not pay the Railway grie,·ance. He hoped that the Post Office Department a fair price for the carriage of mails, Department would take some ot.epe to reorganise and make that department give a fair wage to the system under which the .£7,000 was paid to those who deserved it. the ltailway Department, and see that it did not Mr. l'I'IAXWELL: During the time he was in ~"" into the general revenue of the Rail way the North, while the elections were in progress, Department, but into the pockets of those who he had seen telegrams seut by Minioters of the did post office dutiPs, At present those perwns Crown marked " free," and he should like to in the Railway Department who pl,rformed post know how mat•Y such wires had been sent by office duties were inadequately paid, and the Ministm·s at election times? particular instttnce at BowenvillGJ which he had The CHIE~' SECRETARY: I cannot say. mentioned was one of the most con,picuous cases Mr. DUNSFORD asked if the Chief Secre­ in t.he colony. tary was not going to answer the question of the The CHIEF SECRETARY: He had not hon. member for Burke? been inattentive to the matter which the hon. The CHIE~' SECRETAI\Y : I cannot answer member had so clearly placed before the Com­ conundrums. mittee, and he recognised that it was one of very Mr. DUNSFORD: It was a very important great importance, but he regretted that he was question. The hon. member said that wires were not in a po"ition to give the hem. member much sent free at election times by Ministers. It was further information than he already poskes·ed the first time that he had heard that Ministers concerning the amount paid by the Post Otiice or Ministerial supporters had the privilege of Department to the Railway Department. They sending wires for party purposes free of cost. paid the Railway Department a lump sum of The CHIEF SECRETAI\Y: No such privilege has £7,000 per annum, which was distributed by the been granted. Railway De.partment as they pleased to their Mr. McDONALD: If Ministers were accorded officers who performed the duties of postmasters. the privilege of sending free messages at election It was easy to say that the Post Office should times, the same privilege should be granted to follow the destination of that £7,000 to its every member of the Assembly. It was time various recipients, bnt hon. members would bear such an abuse was put a stop to. There was no in mind that a divided control was a very d•>uht there had been a great deal of abuse in unfortunate and embarrassing position. It regard to the sending of those wires, Supply. [21 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1531

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTcRE : Last week information from an officer in the Post and 1nessages of congratulation were sent free. Telegraph Department. But, as the hon. ME~rBEHS of the Opposition: No, no ! member referred to a wire, it was evident he Mr. DUKRPOHD: vVho sent them? had got his inforn1ation from son1e source, and The 8ECltE'l'AHY J<'OR AGRIC'ULTUI\E : The Minis­ if he said that he gnt his information from the try of the day. Secretary f.,r Agriculture the matter was settled. Mr. McDON ALD thought they ought to have Mr. MoDoNALD: It was a common rumour the matter cleared up. If Ministers were to be about the House. allowed to frank wires thr<>ugh, every hon. mem­ The CHAULVJAN: I must ask hon. members ber should have the same privilege. The Go­ to debate in an orderly way, and not carry on a vernment made use of other departments in conversation. just the 8ame way. They knew that Ministers The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. F. G. actunlly ran special trains for election pmposes, Foxtnn, Ca1'1lft1"VOn) was not present when the and now they found that they franked wires discussion about this telegram commenced. He which in many instances were of a purely per­ had only heard the concluding remarks of the sonal nature. hnn. member for :Flinders. If his memory served Mr. STORY: As inquiries were being made, him, the hon. member for Flinders asked it would be worth while to Jmsh them a him if he had received a code wire from the little further. Jn a debate some few weeks returning officer, and he said he had no recol­ ago tlw hon. member for Flinders asked the lection of anything of the sort, if he did not deny Home Secretary whether it was not a fact that it altogether. If he had denied it absolutely, it he had received a code telegrau• from a returning would have been perfectly correct, because he office. Now, if the Home Secretary received a had never received a code telegram from the c:>de message, he ,,robably read it himself, and returning officer at all. He did receive a code did not tell anyone ehe, and he asked the hon. message from the hon. member for Balonne, member for l<'linders who gave him the infor­ for which the hon. member doubtless paid. mati<>n about that telegram. Did the hon. Mr. MolloNALD: That was not the point. member get his information from the depart­ ment, seeing that he knew that a code message 11r. FORt>YTH : That is the mare's nest. · had been sent, and to whom it had been sent? The HOME SECRETARY: It was not what The Home Secretary said at the time that he the hon. m ern her for Flinders wanted to know. knew nothing about it. How was it that the He felt thoroug-hly convinced that he had never hon. gentleman could get information from a receJVed a code telegram from the returning depar1 ment who depended upon "eorecy being officer, as there was nothing in the commnnica· observed above everything? At least, until he tions between the Home 8eoretary's Department g1)t the hon. men1her's explanation he assurned rmd the returning officer which that he had g<•t his information from someone in [9 p.m.] would necessitate the sending of a the department. code teleg-ram. But he was still Mr. McDONALD: The hon. member had ourions to know where the h should not become acquainted with i01 the spy. the contents of them. lVIr. Jli.lcDON ALD : It was the Secretary for Mr. STOI\Y : He knows the fact of it being Agrir.ulture himself who spread it about the sent. House. Mr. McDONALD: The hon. member had The SECRETARY l•'OI\ AcmccLTGHR: No. oast one of the greate.st slurs on the department Mr. STUHY: He would not like to suppos& that any Minister oonld do. It was simply a for a moment that the hon. member had got his disgrace and a shame for him to disparage the 1532 Supply. CASSEMBLY.] Supply. department in tbe way he had done. As a Mr. McDOXALD: Look at Hansard. He Minister of tlw Cr.•wn he had degraded his pusi· ao;ked if a code wire had been sent--if it was a tion t•J the lowest po>sible depth. fact th>et a wde tele;rmm had been sent. HoNOURABLE ME~TRERS: Hent· hear! No, no! The HmnJ SEcRgTAHY: No. Mr. MoDO.l\ALD : A Minister was supp<1secl Mr. McDUK ALD : The hrm. gentleman denied to <],,fend his department; but the Home ::lecre- it. Then the bun. gentlenmn wanted to know 1ary got up and distincLly stated th'OH AGRICGL'l'UBE : It is not The SEORE'rARY ~'OR ;\Gl\ICULTGHE: Only on in nccordance with parliamentary decornrn. y:mr side of the Home. 'l'hH. C HAIRMA:\f : I do not think the hon. Mr. MoDONALD: It was not a mere cha\ lll8lnber is Htrictly in order. betwe.~n two men. A dozen men could get up Mr. BELT, : Strictly in order ! Is he in and exr1lain it. order at all1 The H0.1n; SECRETARY: He just wished Mr. McDONALD: If t.ho hon. member for to Ra.y a word in reply to the btJn, geutleman. Dalby, "ith his usual impetnnsity, would uot The qne.-;tion which wa~ put to hitn on a previou~ get up and interrupt, he thought they would get occasiun was whether he had rPceived a code on. telPgram from the returning officer. To that he The HmiE S!lCREJ'Al\Y : He rose to a point of gave a most emphatic denial, and he repeated order. it. Mr. 1\IcJJO:NALD : The hon. member for 1Ir. McDoxALD: Hear, hP-ar ! Dall1y was very go<>ti, if there were half-a-dozen The HO~rE SECRETARY: The hon. gentle­ ladies in the gallpry, to get up nnd talk. Jnan saiJ it was cmurrwn rumour about the House. The CHAlK\'fAN : Order! .Mr. l\IcDoNALD: Yes. Mr. MoD ON ALD: If the hon. gentlemnn had The H0.\<11£ tiECJkETARY: That showed listened he would have admitted it was a slander wlmt value there •,vas in Dame Humour. He sent on the Postal Department. The Hom,; Secretary, a good many code telfgramR frnm time to tirue. if not in exact words, in effe et, inferred that the He wns constantly d.,ing it. There were only 'l'elegraph Department was so corrupt thett if a two perwns who knew that he had sent the hon. wire had to be sent he harl to a: No. Itwasfrom them he who iH speaking. He rnust know that it is dis~ heard it. It wa~ corr1mon runwur. 'rhen the orderly to do so. hon. member got up and let the whole mntter The.H01\IE SECRETARY: ThEre were only ou~. lie ~<.'\Jid there was a tekgrnrn sf>nt. the two uf them, besides the ofticials in the Tele­ The HoME S>:CRETARY: Not to the retmning grapb OfficP, whn \vere aware of it. He had not oHicPr, sprend the rumour, and he was sure the h< •n. Mr. McDONALD: Hewasnottalkingtothe mt'mber for Balonne had not done so. h1ln, nH~luher. The hon. mern 1·er was nut in the :iYlr. STOHY : 1 forgot all abont that. Chamber at the time, and clid not !mow what The HOME SECHETAUY: Where, then, the hon. rnembPr for Balonne said. rrhe Sf:'cre~ had the rnrrwur come frotn, if it. was not from tnry for Agriculture interjected and said he (Mr. the Telegraph Otlice? He was very sorry to McDonald) got it from him. havf\ to say that sort of thing. Tlw SECRE'l'ARY FOR AGRICULTUHE: Nobody Mr. McDONALD: You are still confirming it. believed you. Hon. D. H. DAI.RDJl'LE: You gave the evi­ Mr. ::\IcDO~ALD: NoN the fnct came out dence yonr.,elf. thnt l1 cone telegram was sent. The. HOME SECRETARY: Ye,~, the hem. The HmfE SECHETARY: Not to the returnin!:( member hnd given the evidence himself, and all offieer. the hem. member had t0 do to clear the Tele­ Mr. McDO::\'ALD: He never said it was to graph Otlice wa" to say wlHere else thnt informa­ the returning officer. He only asked if a code tiun ca1ne from. It was ll"ele8s for the hon. telegram was sent. member to pobe here as the defender of the The HOi\IE SEoREJ'AHY: No. Telegraph offici>'lo. Supply. [21 DECEMBER.j Supply. 1533

Hon. D. H. DAr.RHfPLE : \Vhom he has prac- 1 Mr. BELL: I merely wanted to remind you of tically slandered. the Standing Order. The HOME SECRETARY: The hon. mem­ l'lfr. McDON" ALD: Once the Home Secretary ber had practically given the TelegrHph Office got his hair off there was no holding him-- a way. He did not defame the office as a whole, The CHAIRMAN: I think it is unparlia­ but he supposed there were hhck sheep in that mentary to refer to any hon. member in that way. oHice as well as eloewhere. He knew they were I will ask the hon. member to withdraw the all sworn to secrecy, but apparently from the expression. speech of the hon. m em l·er for Flinders some of .Ylr. MoDONALJ): SrBing th~t the hon. them did not observe that secrecy which they gentleman kept his hair on in a manner which should observe. marle him so irritabl,-- Mr. DUNSFORD: That was rather a serious The HOME SECHE'l'AThY: That is about tlw charge by a l'l1inister against a GovPrnment sarrw. departmpnt--that some of the employees in the ThA CHA1RMAN: The hon. member will Telegraph Department did not ll:eep secrets withdraw the remark. I think he is adding which they should keep. in,ult to injury. The HoliiE SECRETARY : That is quite clear. Mr. McDONALD really hardly knew what Mr. DUNSFORD: They had the word of to say. In consequence of the hVas it \Vhat he rose to do now was to ask the Home the practice of JYI inisters to send messages at the Secretarv-- public expense interferim; wit,h elc ctions, simply The HOME SECRETARY rose to a point of because a political accident had placed them in orcler. He understood that the Chairman had charge of departments, and if so, tu what extent ruled that the hon. member for Dalby was in did th;lt pr.wticepreva,il? pos,ession of thA chair. l\!Ir. LEAHY: i:lav wh" the Minister i,,_ Mr. McDONALD understood that the hon. The CHIEF SECRETARY : The whole ]Jlemb~r for D~;~lby h~;~d tinished? deb<>te had arisell on gei)eralities, Let a specific 1534 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. case be submitted, and the name of the Minister tation to attend an agricultural show ; he was hP given, and then an answer would be given. delayed by the "Barcoo," and was at Gbdstont> He believed that Ministers cl id not send telegmms when he should have been at Gatton ; and it c~c2pt en public bu3incss. '.Yhen the hon. n1em­ vv·ctJs ou1y ~J.::ru.rteorts thd.i> l16 t-lh:.u\J inf11l'lil the ber dealt with generalities, and suspicions, and hon. member for Lockyer that he could not be rumour", they were unworthy of being answered. pre3ent. He distinctly dPnied that there was Mr. MAXWELL : If any one of the Minis­ 9ny promise of a railway, or that the telegram ters would step over to that side he would give was an electioneerir.g telegram in any shape. the name, and they could m:tke it public if they In reference to other telegrams, all he could s:ty lik,,d, was that every .Minister was bound to reply Mr. W. HAMILTON: He had no hesitation promptly to tel<'grams addressed to him. in saying that the pre;ent Chief Secretary sent Mr. W. HAMILTON: He was at the Laidley telegrams to the Mini,terial candidate contesting show the day the telegram was read, and it dis­ the Gregory election that he would have certain tinctly promised a rail way to Laidley Creek, or borE's put clown in the district if the Minis­ Laidley Valley. The hon. members for Charters terial candidate was returned. He did not know Towers and Kennedy were also present. The whether thoee telegrams were paid for or not. other telegram to which he referred was sent by Mr. LESIN A would also like to mention a the hon. gentleman to a Civil servant who had cast. The Chief i:lecretarv sent a wire to received sJx months' leave of absence on full pay Laidley, which was re.·1d out by the hon. member so that he might ma,ke himself popular in the for Lockver, promising a rail way to the people Gregory and oppose him I Mr. Hamilton). That of tbttt electorate. officer sent in his resignation on the day of nomi­ The CHIEI<' SECRETARY : That is distinctly nation sc> that he could legally contest the seat, untrue. and then when he was defeated he was taken Mr. LESINA: Did the h,m, gentleman not back into the Government service. \V as that a send a wire of that character? fair thing to do? If any Civil servant took a The CHIEF SECRETARY: 'l'here was no pro­ conspicuous part in assisting a La hour candidate mi-;e. he would be disrniesed next day. There was the Mr. Ll~SINA wanted to know whether it was case of Mr. Michael Wood, who wanted to run true that a wire to that effect was sent, because for a seat in the Labour interest, but he was told one was read out by the hon. member for that he would have to leave the service if he did. Lockyer. Mr. :FISHER reminded hon. members opposite The SECRETARY !<'OR AGRICULTURE : \Vhat of the case of Mr. Trenowith, who da,te? [9'30 p.m.] was in the service of the Railway Mr. LESINA: He did not know the elate. Department in Toowoomba, and was The matter wae mentioned in the newspapers. It told that if he wished to stand as a candidate at was sent. in connection with the federal cam­ the election there he would have to leave the paign. Then there was another wire sent by the service. He did leave the service, and was now Chief Secretary promising electoral reform and in \Ve,tern Australia. He admitted that af1 er one man one vote, in the event of the federal being defeated at the election Mr. Trenowith conRtitution being carded. would have been allowed to go into the service The CHIEB' SROR~a'ARY: I distinctly deny it. again, but the position otferPcl to him was not to be compared to the po:;ition offered to 1\Ir. Dodd. Mr. LESINA knew that a wire to that effect The PltEJ.HElt: Mr. Dodd before he C<•n• was read out at a meeting at Charters Towers. tested the Gregory election resigned his position, Mr. ANNEAR t Sent by the Cotlrier. and Mr. Trenowith did the very same thmg. Mr. LESINA did not know who it was sent Mr. l!'rsHER: He did not get leave of absence by. on full pay? The CHIEB' s~~CRETARY : A Press telegram. The PRE:\HER: Nor did Mr. Docld. Mr. LESINA: It was read out at a public i\lr. KmsTON: Did not Mr. Dodd g-et six mee.ting. and it promised electoral reform. months' leave of absence before he resigned? The CHilli<' SrlCRETARY : Do you 'ay it was The PREMIER: Th:.t he could not say; but sent by l!Je? before he became a candidate he resigned. Mr. An HONOURABLE lHEMBEI\ : It was alleged in Trenowith was working in the railway yard up the new"papers to have been sent by the Chief to the last, and was tolrl that before he heetttne a Secretary. candidate he must resign. After his defmtt he Mr. LE SINA: There were so very many things came to him (the Premier), and he saw the Com­ alleged against the hon. member that he could missioner, who off red Mr. Trenowith a situation, not speak for certa,in on that point. It was a but he preferred to go to \Vestern Australia. very good thing that half the things alleged There were at present in the Hailway Depart­ against him were not true ; but even if a per­ ment three nr four defeated candidates. Mr. centage were true, the hon. gentleman cut a very Hyott Manghan wM ther" now, and he was sorry figure before the publw. A statement was formerly a Labour member. There was no made that he sent a wire to Laidley, which was difference between the case of Mr. Trenowith read out by the hon. member for Lockyer, anrl it and that of Mr. Dudd. was received with sarcastic laughter. He would Mr. DA WSON: The Premier badmis~ed the like to know if that wire was sent by the hon. wholP point raised by the hon. member for Gre­ gentleman? gory. Mr. Trenowith resigned his position in the 'J'he 0HIEI<' SECRETARY : If you don't talk all service when he beel1 in vi- )nonths' leave of absence for whatever purpose Supply. [21 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1535

he might have in dew, and he got it. Mr. U.ate of your letter, I have the honour to inform 'frenowith was not entioled to it, and he did not you that our officers at 'l,ownsville, Cooktown and get it. He would go further, and say that, in Thursday Island, having· bern instructed to make a thorough search, furnish the followingrepli•_~:; :-'rO\vns~ not get tin'S leave of ahsence, 11r. Trenowith's ville 1~-12 99 can find LO record of any message J. candidature was not h unpered in the shghtest Hamilton to Bulletin Townsv1lle from 1st Xovember to degree. 12 })f'f~einberinelusive collect. Cook town 13-12-99 yours Mr. W. HAMILTON: Towards the latter to-day no telcg:rams received for Independent from J. end of last session the hon. member for Flinders Hamilton from lst .\ ovember to date colleet. 'l'hursday Islancll4-l~-99 your mes!:Sage yesterday no telegrams asked the Chief ::lecretary whether Mr. D,Jdd ret'-elvod llere from J .HamiHon to Tt;rres ::;tralls Pilot had received le,we of absence on full pay, and from Xovember 1st to December 12 current collect. was told that Mr. Dodd had recPived six rwmths' So it appeared that the statement of the hon. leave on full pay. All that time he was making member for Clermont was utterly untrue. himself popular in the electomte, and he had to Mr. LESIN A: He bad merely asked a ques­ re;ign just before the d,1,y of nomination, or his tion whether the Minister knew that such candidature would not have legal. \Vhen he tele:,rarus had bl'en sent.. He did not assert that addressed meetings he had telegrams from the the hon. member for Cook had sent them. then Premier promising all "ons of things­ Mr. J. HA~!ILTON : You said so in the Wo1·ker. bores and everything else-and he (:Y1r. Hamil­ Mr. LESINA: He denied that. He had ton) had a~ked the hon. gentleman. if he ~as seen the statement in the Worker, but he bad going to gr ve effect to tho"e promises, wlnch nothing to do with th;tt. He had oimply asked everybody knew at the time were only made for a questiun, and he could not understand the hon. the pur pose of electioneering. member for Cook saying that he had made any Mr. Me DON ALD said he had in his possession chargt against him. a wire-though he h,,,d not got ic with him now­ An HONOUHABLE MEo!BEH : By implication a wire sent by the present Chief Secretary to yon did. Hughenden during the last election. He did not Mr: LRSINA : No. say the hon. gentleman had not a right to send Mr. LEAHY : The Worker stated it as a fact, that particular wire; bnt the Committee bad a and yon asserted that it was a fact. How could right to know whether Ministers of the Crown it be a fact if it was not true? were allowed to send, free of cost, wires ou per­ Mr. LESINA: That has not been proved. He sona1 bu,iness outside public business. denied that he had attacked the hon. gentleman The CHIEF SECHETAUY : Certainly not. through the Worker. Mr. ::HcDONALD: Then he hoped it would Mr. STORY wished to acknowledge the ex­ not be done. As long as it was not so done at planation made by the hon. member for Flinders the cost of the State, of course they had n g since in the TV01·ker, and it was an op"n secret that elections he thuught some reflection had been the hon. member anonymously attacked him and caet on the Telegra]Jh Department, because the anyone else to whom he w,;s O]J!JOsed in that paper. word "leakage" had been used. \Vhether Some time ago the hun. member "aid that he Ministers should send such wires he was not (.VIr. Hamilton) had attacked him in some paper. going to say. A very old member of the House He replied that the accnc,ation was untrue, and hod told him that tnat had been done from the that he did not correspond with any paper. beginning, and would be done to the end of The Wor·ker then, in order to prove his statement time. He would like to point out the way in false and to prove he did correspond with which these telegrams leaked ant. He was in pape~s, published a wire which they said was the possession of wires sent by Minist~rs and the copy of one sent by him (Mr. Hamilton) to marked "free," but the department W>oS not to certain papers, and also said that it was sent on blame for the leakage, and he was not going to an O.H.M.S. form. If this had only appeared use those wires in the House. If hon. members in the Worker he would not have troubled to opposite doubted his word he was willing to contradict it, bnt as it had been brought up in show them to two Ministers or two of the Parliament he would do, so. \Vhen he saw the Government supporters, and the leader of the charge he wrote to the Under Secretary of Opposition and t.wo other hon. members on his the Postal Department, on 12th December, as side of the House. follows:- The HOME SECRETARY: Were they on private DEAR Sm,-Last week's Worker states th:tt on the 29th Xovember, I sent the following wire to the business? Cooktown Indepenrlent, the Torl(!8 Straits Pilot, and the Mr. BROWNE : They were connected with Townt:n·flle Bul,et:/t:-" .Jiinistry for! ed to-clay purely electioneering business. During the last election labour Tbey will be promptly ejected to-morrow and there were plenty of places where two or three old Government return to power with Philp Pre­ c.1ndirlates stood in the Government interest, and mier." Kindly inform me if I have sent any \Vire of the head of the Government and Ministers had any description to the said papers either on the 29th sent telegrarns to try and settle these little diffi­ November or even in the 1nontlls of Xove1hber or December. culties, and these wires had gone through " free." I am, etc.,. In one or two instances, where theHe communtea­ J. HACIHLTON. tions had been sent to those two or three candi­ In reply, he received the following letter:- dates with the object of getting the best Referring to your communication of the 12th i11stant, candidate in the Governwent interest, the man desiring to know whether a telegram reading H }iinistry who had been ignored had felt a little sore and formed to-day purely Labour They will be promptly harl given the whole show away. ejf'cted to-morrow and old Governmeut returned with Mr. LEAHY : That shows the wisdom of getting Pbilp Premier" had been sent by you on the 29th ultuno rid of such a man. to the Uooktown lnclepencle-nt, the Tm-res Strait,.;; Pt!ot. Mr. HROWNE : That was so, but it did not and the ToW118t U!e Bulletin, or whether you had sent a wire of any description to any of the papers named, either show the wisdom of sending thes~ wires, marked o~ ~[le 29th qltimo or on any day from t[l~ Jlrst to the "free," at public expense, to a man who could 1536 Supply. [.A.SSE"'I.BLY.] Supply. not be depended upon. He was only proving his strncted. When the telegram was read at the contention that these wires had been Kent during show, the people who were [lresent, induding the last election by MiuisterR, which had to be the member fur th~ dist, ict, laughed ironically; paid for by the taxpayers oi the colony, and and, notwithstanding what the hon. g, ntleman that the telegraph operatots or any other officers said, he held that as he was Premier at the time in the department were not to be b[;;m, d fur any the statement he m'"Lle in that meosage was leakage in thiJ way. If there V>Pre any leakage regarded as a promi,e. 'l'he hon. gentleman had in regnrd to mess.int out that during his leave that during his leave of aboence he had toured he was still a Ci vi! servant, and that there was the Gregury electorate, afterwards contr,ting the a regulation prohibiting Civil servants from seat in the Ministerial interest. During the con­ taking part in politics. M.r. Dodd was a very t<:st he endeavoured to secure political support nice fellow, and a very efficient officer, but the by making public wires which he received from s:tme treatment a9 he had receivBd should be Ministers promising all sorts of things to the meted out all round, and any officer in the people. That was a most dangerous precedent service who wished to contest an election should to establish, and one which certainly should not be given six m•mths' leave to do so, if it W[1S a be followed. De,pite all the wiles of the proper thing to do in his case. Government, and in spite of the benefits which :Mr. J\fcDONALD understood that during the were promised tD the district if he was elected, he federal referendum and the general election was defeated, and, since his defe>1t, he had been telegrams receiv,;d by the G,>vermneuo from the reinstated ia the department, but at a reduc­ various voting centres WHe given to the local tion in ~alary of £100 per annum. Of course Press, the Couritr, Tele!7raph, and other metro­ the Government was not foolbh enough to re,tore politan newspaper,. He did not object to tlmt, him to his form<-r position at his old salary. hec•rn,e, thou .h it might cause a little Lemporary Th•·y bad to diKplay a certain amount of virtuous inconvenience to the otficial,, yet it was valuable indignation at '1>1r. Dodd's conduct in contesting information to give to the public. But be thought an election ; but no doubt he would soon get his it was not fair t,hat the metropolitan Press old salary hack again. If that prec,-clent was to should get th 't information free, and th:>t the be followed in that rJep>trtmeot, it W«tlld have provincial Pre,;.-; should have to p:ty for it a•, the to be foliowed in othCJr departments as well, and usual telegraphic mtes when it was repeated to a Civil &lrvant, with political amLition, mii!ht them. be given lea' e of absence in order to familiarise The CHIEF i:iECRETARY: It was quite himself with the electors in a certain electorate, possible that the local Press might have boen and op!,ose some hon. member on the Opposition supplied with returns showing the pr.,gress of side. He trusted cbat, after the disc·,ssion which the election as they came to the hands of the had taken place in regm·d to the action of Mr. returning officer. He had no don bt that any Dodd, the practice would be allowed to drop into newspaper applying to the returning officer desuetude. If not, on some future occa,ion the would get the informati,Hr, though ha was not O!·position might be in power, and they might awctre that any arrangement was made by the grant p rmissi.m ad lib. to Civil servants to make returnin!.( officer to supply it to the Press. He themselves S'ent a wire? flint P:(amst the exteusion of a policy which was The CHIEl!' SECRE'l'ARY : Yes, it has been populati,ed during the tetm of office of the admitted all along. preSt'llt Chief Secret.,,ry. Mr. LE::iiNA: The hon. g ntleman now Question put a.nd passed. admittr'd that when he was Premier he sent a wire to the Laidley show promioing a certain CONVEYANCE Ol•' ~JAILS, ETC. railwav. The CHIEF i:iECRETARY mm·ed that The"CHIEl<' SECRE1'ARY: No. £146,000 be granted fc,r the c••nveyance of mails, Mr. STOUY: h was not a promise. I was gratuities to tnasters (1£ vet--;els for the convey­ there, and heurd the telegram rt-.td. It was an ann of m lils, and to the Railway Department apology for ab~enc:e, and b exprFs>md a h•)pe for the conveYance of mail . He had t'Xplained that thev would get. the Laidley railway. the causes wloich lerl to the expansion of the vote, Mr. LJ<~SINA: That was a despie~ble shuffk and thought it unnecessary to take up atJy further The CHIEF SECRETARY: It is a desjJicctbltl time. charge. Mr. MAX\VELL: There wcs one matter thot Mr. LESINA: He objected to any member concerned the electorate he represented that he of the Government using the Tele:;raph De1 •art• wiohed to refer to. In the wet season the mails ment to 8end a wire to a certain nwm t:er sittin~; between H.erberton and Georgetown were stuck on the Government side of the Hotme, which up for pr. ,bahly thre<>, four, ur five weeks. The gave the persm;s who heard it read the impres­ amount of stuff carried by the parcel post was so sion that a particnhr railway w11s to be con- heavy that it was impossible for the coach to get [21 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1537 through with the ordinary mails. He wanted to the federation with the intention of handing ask the hon. member in charge of the Estimates Queensland over to the southern colonies ; but whether it might not be possible to get through they were going further than that. They the ordinary mail•, and leave the parcel matter were handing over the public positions in Queens­ behind for the following mail? land to persons outside Queensland. "When the The CHIEF SECRETARY : A great deal public thoroughly appreciated this, they would depended on the state of the weather. The say whether in was a good thing that such a department were desirous that, when the weather Government should any longer hold control of permitted, the mails and parcels should go on the Treasury benches. together, and, to accomplish that, a second coach Question put and passed. had been subsidised. But in the wet sAason, when it was impossible to get the mails and MISCELLANEOUS SERVICES (SUBDIVISION). parcels through together, the mails would go on The CHIEF SECRETARY moved that by horse, and the parcels would stand over until .£65,000 be granted for " Miscellaneous Ser­ they could be carried on. vices." He had already explained the vote, Mr. W. HAMILTON : Was it a fact that the which showed an increase of £7,000. department were advertising for telegraph opera­ Mr. LESIN A asked from whom the Govern­ tors in the southern colonies? It seemed a ment obtaine:l the bicycles used by the depart­ strange thing if they had not sufficient officials ment; what they paid for them; whether the in this colony to fill these position~, and that company asked to supply them was selected; or they could not train up the youth of the colony whether their supply was open to tender and to fill them. public compAtition? The CHIEF SECRETARY : He understood The CHIEF SECRETARY: Tenders had that the difficulty about getting officers for the recently been invited for the supply of bicycles, Telegraph Department was that the Postal and the Massey-Harris Comp~ny were the Department was preferred on account of the successful tenderers, and supplied the depart­ lateness of the hours that had to be worked in ment throughout the colony. The department the Telegraph Department. However, they were did not buy hicycles, but merely rented them, endeavouring now to train up the young officers at a cost of .£14 per annum for each bicycle, the in the department with a view to having a ccmpanv undertaking to keep them in repair. sufficient staff hereafter. There appeared to be Mr. ~IcDONALD had as much exverience of a general demand throughout the world now for bicycles as most people, and he was surprised telegraph operators. In fact, several telegraph at the information. He could get an allow­ operators had recently left Australia for Cape ance on the one he was riding this year, and Colony. Three of the supernumeraries had could get a new one next year for less than thrown up their appointments in the Queens­ the Government were paying for the rent of a land service and gone there. He hoped that the bicycle. He had ridden one bicycle 15,000 miles difficulty would be adjusted by the training up in three years, and it had not cost him a three­ of the young officers; but in the meantime tem­ penny bit for repairs that he could not do him­ porary employees in the Telegraph Department self. The arrangement entered into must have were difficult to obtain. been due to a want of knowledge on the pa.rt of Mr. LESINA : That is not the point. the department, as no practical person would Mr. W. HAMILTON: Was it true that the advise them to make such a bargain. Government were advertising in the other JIIIr. McDONNELL: It was great extrava· colonies for telegraph operators? gance to rent bicycles at .£14 a year. If hon. The CHIEF SECRETARY: It was. members would refer to the report of the Police Mr. LESINA: He objected to employees Commission, they would find that the Police being obtained in the other colonies. It seemed Department got their bicycles from the Massey­ an extraordinary thing that they could not find Harris peo!)le at £13 each, free of duty, of course. a sufficient number of capable young men among It would be well if the Post Office Department the youth of this colony. adopted the same system. He understood that The CHIEF SECRETARY: We want experienced there was a man in the Post Office Depart­ men. ment who repaired the bicycles; and if that Mr. LESINA: Why could they not get was so, the extravagance of the bargain was young men in the colony to take positions of that accentuated. A bicycle, if properly looked after, kind? 'rhe position did not require such an would cost very little for repairs. extraordinary amount of education or intelli­ The CHIEF SECRETARY : These are very hard gence. It seemed to him that the Government worked. were under the impression that if they wanted Mr. McDONNELL : There were plenty of anyone capable of filling any position at all he men riding bicycles about Brisbane who covered must be imported. They were constantly going quite as much ground as the telegraph messen­ outside for them. If they wanted a meat in­ gers. It was a ridiculous system to rent bicycles spector they went to the other side of the world at .£14 a year each. It would pay better to for him ; if they wanted @,n inspector of forests adopt the system adopted by the Police Depart­ they went to London for him-they must have ment, and keep a man in the department to the London stamp on them. Positions in the repair the bicycles. Queensland public service should be filled by The CHIEF SECRETARY: It had formerly Queensland natives, but this Government were been the system to purchase bicycles for the against Queensland youths being employed in department, and to pay a company, not the the Queensland public service. Massey-Harris Company, £4 or .£5 per annum The CHIEF SECRETARY : That is not so. to keep them in repair. Mr. LESINA: It was part of the policy of Mr. McDONALD: For each bicycle? the Government to fill up positions in the The CHIEJ!' SECRETARY: Yes. The re­ Queensland public service with imported persons, sult of that was that the company threw up the and tmce the public were aroused to that fact it contract, as it did not pay them. Hon. would go very largely again5t them. If the members might understand the amount of Government were in fa vonr of federation, it wear and tear upon those machines, from that. seemed an extraordinary thing that they should The matter had been referred to a com­ carry their belief in it so far as to exclude the mittee of the Post Office Department, who citizens of Qneeneland from obtaining positions had brought up a report, and the present in the public service of Queensland. It had system was approved by the Postmaster-General been said that the Government had entered into and the Under Secretary. All the resp,onsibility !899-5 B~ 1538 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. now rested with thp, company supplying the bi­ The CHIEF SECRETARY: It has been found not cycles, and it was a large order to keep bicycles to answer. It is not so economical. in repair all over the colony. The hon. member Mr. LESINA: H8 would undertake to say for Flinders no doubt nursed his bicycle, and it that no private firm that wanted to use bicycles was not subjected to the wear and tear to which to the extent that the Postal Department did the boys in the Telegraph Office subjected their would think for a moment of doing anything bicycles. He could only S'W that the two sys­ else but buying the macbine•, and letting the tems had been tried, and the present system had repairs out by contract. vVith reference to the been adopted only after full investigation and item "Typewriters, uniforms, horse-feed, mail­ report. hags, etc.," he should be glad to know whether Mr. MoDO~ALD thought it was simply rob­ those things were snpplied after tenders were bing the State, and somebody must be making were called publicly. an enormous profit out of it. The machine he The CHIEF SECRETARY: The mailbags rode on his first trip round the Flinders carried were made by the Reformatory boys at Lytton, bun 15,000 miles in three years; and when he and if there was any dPficiency it was supplied parted with it to get another, he was allowed by calling for tenders. With regard to the type­ .£12 for it. The life of a bicycle was reckoned at writers, they were the property of the individual 10,000 miles, butthatdid not mean that it was then officers, and an allowance was made for their use .. no good, and there was less wear and tear on the That system seemed to work very well. macadamised roads about their towns than nn Mr. LESINA: I asked about the horse-feed, too. the roads outside. He had noticed that the machines riddeJ;I by some of the telegraph boys The CHIKI<' SECRETARY: The horse-feed were not calculated to be very good for their health. was bought in the open market locally, and In some cases the bicycles were too heavy. tenders were invited for the supply in other parts Most of the boys weighed from seven and a-half of the colony. to eight or nine stone, and could be mounted on Mr. LESINA asked whether the supply of much lighter machines. Another stores and stationery was open to public compe­ [10'30 p.m.] thing he had noticed was that some tition, under what arrangements the present of the boys rode bicycles of too high supply had been made, and for how long? a frame, the re"ult being that they had a big The CHIEF SECRETARY: The system was stretch to reach the pedals. That was likely to to call for tenders for the currency of three years. do serious injmy to the boys, and they would Those were published in the Gazette, and were regret riding those machines in after life. More open to public competition. care should be taken to see that the bicycks :Mr. LESINA asked what price the Govern­ were lighter, and the frames more suited to the ment were now paying for horse-feed under the size of the hoys. present tenders? The CHIEF SECRETARY : He was in­ The CHIEF SECRETARY: The price formed that the total number of bicycles used fluctuated. was twenty, provided at a cost of .£280 a year. .Mr. LESINA asked for some information To keep a man to repair them would cost £300 about the item "Proportion of Ios" on New a year, so that the department were really Zealand cable business and proportion on saving. In Melbourne he understood the depart­ account of Victoria· subsidy, £800," ment paid .£9 a year for the bicycles, and took which appeared on the Estimates for the first the risk of accident. He had already stated that a person who undertook to keep the time? bicycles in repair for .£5 a year had withdrawn The CHIEF SECRETARY said there was an from the contract. The price of .£14 a year arrangrment between the colonies by which each was the result of a tender. Several tenders colony paid its share of any loss on those cables were received, and the Massey-Harris Company on the basis of poJulation. was the lowest. ·with regard to the machines Mr. LESINA: Was that the first time they being too heavy for the boys, he would repre had had to pay that amount of money? sent the matter so that it would be given con­ The CHIEF SECRE'rARY: He believed it sideration. The department had no desire to was the first time there had been an adjustment injure the boys' health. of accounts under the agreement, which was not Mr. McDONNELL understood that there were a very old one, in which that claim had been fort.y or fifty bicycles in nse. Undoubtedly it made. would not pay to keep a man to repair twenty Mr. LESINA: vVas it likely that that pay­ bicycles. Did the repairs include new tyres? ment would continue for any length of time? The CHIE:l!' SECRETARY : The repairR The CHIEF SECRETARY' li; might con­ included everything. The bicycles had to be tinue throughout the term of the arrangement. kept in perfect order. vVith a fuller traffic between the colonies the Mr. J. HAMILTON thought the price of £14 profit would be greater, and any loss would was a fair thing. It meant about 6s. a week. disappear. The loss arose from the fact of an If one hired a bicycle in Brisbane it cost 7s. Gd. agrec-ment having been made under which the a week, and if it came to grief the hirer had to charges to the public were reduced, any deficiency pay for it. He thought the suggestion of the to be paid on the basis of population. If the hon. member for Flinders, that the boys should item did not appear the public would have to be supplied with lighter bicycles, should be pay a higher tariff than was at present impc>o,ed, attended to. Question put and passed. Mr. LESINA: Did he understand the hon. gentleman to say that some alteration was going METEOROLOGY. to be made in the present system ? The CHIEF SECRETARY moved that The CHIEJ<' SECRETARY: No, the contract is .£1,620 be granted for the Meteorological De­ entered into for three years. partment. The small increase in the vote was Mr. LESINA did not hesitate to say that it an addition to the very moderate salaries of the was of the most extravagant and senseless assistants. Considering the useful work done by arrangements he had ever heard of. He could Mr. Wragge, and its high appreciation in the not understand how the department could be colony, he thought the Committee would not guilty of 8ntering into a contract so absolutely object to that very modest item. absurd. How much better would it be for the Mr. LESINA said that in the Courier the depa_rtment to purchase bicycles, and let out the other day he noticed that Mr. \Vragge informed repa1rs by contract, the public that it was colder that day than it had Suppl,y. [21 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1539 been the day before, or that it was hotter than it session on the lines of the estimates of Mr. Le had been the day before. Did they need a Hunte, who took a great interest in the develop­ weather prophet to tell them that? ment of the Possession. It had been arranged Mr. BARTHOLOMEW suggested that a sum­ that no concessions of the extent sought by mary of the weather reports should be sent free the British New Guinea Syndicate would be to the newspapers of the different centres of granted, but the Lieutenant-Governor had the population. permission of the Premiers to alienate blocks The CHIEF SECRETARY: The whole of land not exceeding 50,000 acres for the matter of weather reports was now receiving purpose of planting and otherwise developing consideration. The weather reports were now the Possession. Any area beyond that extent fairly distributed in the leading towns and ports, would have to be submitted to the contri­ and there was an ever-increasing desire for more. buting colonies for approval or otherwise. He The only objection was that· it loaded the tele­ might state that arrangements with the British graph lines with matter which interfered with New Guinea SyndiCate had not been the despatch of private messages. [11 p.m.] finally concluded. It had been Mr. FISHER said that what the hon. member decided by the Premiers of the con­ for Maryborough asked was that a summary of tributing colonies that the Agents-General should the weather reports shouLl be wired to the country meet and say what amount might fairly be Press. granted out of the Accumulated Hevenue Fund Mr. McDON ALD said he was under the to the syndicate. The syndicate had deposited impressi011 that tbe Charters Towers newspapers £1,000, and the Agents-General of the contribut­ got them free now. ing colonies had arrived at the conclusion that Mr. FISHER: If some, why not all? and if £4,000 would fairly cover the expense incurred any, certainly the Press in the towns of Wide by the syndicate. Sir George Turner, betore Bay should get them free. he ratin·d from office, agreed with Queensland The CHIEF SECRETARY : The present that this £1,000, plus the £1,000, should be system was to send collect-messages from the refunded to the syndicate and thereby close weather bureau to the different prc.vincial papers the transaction. Mr. Reid, he believed, who desired information. approved of that arrangement, but he bad Question put and passed. retired from office; and while Mr. Lyne ap­ AUDITOR-GENERAL. proved of the £1,000 being refunded, he declined to agree to paying the £4,000-notwithstamling The PREMIER moved that £9,220 be granted that his Agent-General had agreed to that­ for the department of the Auditor-General. without the special vote of the New South 'Vales There was an increase of £315 on the amount Parliament. Therefore the matter was hung up, voted last year. although two of the contributing colonies were Question put and passed. willing that this long-debated question should be POLICE. removed from the field of New Guinea adminis­ On the motion of the PREl\HER, the Police tration. The £5,000 would be paid out of the Estimates were further postponed till after the £27,000, the appropriation for which was now consideration of the Loan Estimates. asked for. That was the position. Mr. Le Hunte came down some months ago, and BRITISH NEW GUINEA. fully explained the position to the Premiers of ThePREMIEHmoved that£27,264 be granted New South Wales and Victoria, who had every from the British New Guinea accumulated fund. confidence in his ability and bis desire to con­ This was in accordance with an agreement come duct the "!fairs in such a manner as would to at a conference of the Premiers held in Mel­ legitimately induce the introduction of capital bourne in .January, 1898. for the development of the Possession, while he Mr. BROWNE: This was an increase of about would not allow concessions to be granted over £15,000, or 130 per cent., on last year's vote, and large areas, merely for the purpose of exploiting be thought the hon. gentleman in charge of the the fertile lands of New Guinea. Estimate should give the Committee some infor­ Mr. BROWNE thoug·ht the statement of the mation. hon. gentleman was satisfactory. The balance The PRFJMIER : At one time thE' contribut­ of this £27,000 would be paid by the other con­ ing colonies provided cenain sums, but the tributing colonies out of the trust funds contri­ agreement had expired, and now the whole of buted by the different colonies. the disbursements fell upon the colony itself. The CHIEE' SECRETARY : Yes, Mr. BROWNE: On Queensland? Mr. BROWNE : And if any compensation The PREMIER: On the colony of New was paid to the syndicate, it would be paid out Guinea. of the £27,000. The CHIEF SECRErARY: The contribu­ The CHIEF SECREJ'ARY: Yes. Mr. Lyne did tions of the different colonies ceased in 1898, and not object to that, but he wished to consult his undH the new agreement made by the Premiers Parliament before agreeing to the matter. of the contributing colonies the balance of the Mr. BROWNE: It would not be a charge on accumulated revenue fund was allowed tempor­ the revenue of this colony, but it would come arily to be used by Mr. Le Hunte for the pur­ out of the £27,000-trust fund-already paid by pose of carrying on the adminietration of the the contributing colonies. Possession; consequently the amount required The CHIEF SECRETARY : Quite so. for the year 1899-1900 was considerably larger Mr. BHOWNE: New Guinea was to go on than the amount of the appropriation for the with the balance of the £27,000, until further year 1898 1899. It was expected that the balance arrangements were made? of the accumulated fund, together with the The CHIEF SECRETARY : Quite so. revenue of the Posses,ion itself, which now Mr. HARD ACRE: Some time ago he had amounted to between £14,000and£15,000, would brought under the notice of the Premier-and be sufficient to carry on until federation ensued. he had dealt with the matter on the Financial At the end of the year there would be a Statement-the matter of the Land Ordinance credit balance availab.le from the accumulated of New Guinea, providing that lands in New revenue fund for the maintenance of the Guinea-pastoral and agricultural, as well as Possession next year, but the amount would have other lands-could be leased at 2s. an acre. to be supPlemented the following year if the The clause read- '' Merrie J<~ngland" was to be maintained, and 5. A lease of agricultural or pasturage land may con~ provision made for the maintenance of the Pas· tain a purchnd passed, Suppl'!J. [21 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1541

PACU'IC ISLANDERS' FUND. The CHIEF SECRETARY: No. 'rhe CHIEF SECRETARY moved that Mr. W. HAMILTON: Leprosy was not con­ £13,275 be granted for Pacific Island immigra­ fined to kanakas, although there were a good tion. There was an increase of £555 in the vote many cases among them. this year. The department appeared t'> be The CHIE~' SECRE'£ARY: Oh, no! working carefully, and he could assure the Com­ Mr. W. HAMILTON: It was peculiar to mittee that it was being conducted undAr very Asiatics, and an examination of them would stringent conditions. A medical examimttion of reveal a state of things that would make people's all the Pacific Islanders in the colony had hair stanrl on end. recently been held with a view of discovering '.rhe HOME SECRETARY: His department whether they were suffering from communicable was charged with the duty of making provision diseases. The number of islanders examined for the transport of lepers to Friday Island, and was 7,911, out of an estimated total of 8,231, since the examination wa.s commenced there had which would leave about 320 still to be accounted been only five lepers discovered who had to be for; but, as the inspection at Bundaberg and sent to the island. Thursday Island was not yet completed, it was Mr. W. HAMILTON : There were four or five probable the estimated number would be reached. at Mackay. Throughout the whole of the colony the result Mr. MAXWELL: And there is one at George­ had been to show that they were exempt from town. communicable diseases. Of course there were The HOME SECRETARY: That was not a from time to time statements made concerning the kanaka. condition of the islanders, but the medical exami­ l\Ir. MAXWELL: No. nation had proved that the health of the colony The HOME SECRETARY: Including that was by no means menaced by their presence. He one, there were six _to be sent to the island since knew that in that Chamber there was a strong the examination was commenced. political feeling connected with the question. The CHIEF SECRETARY: He hoped they would discuss the matter dispassionately. Mr. BROWNE: The vital statistics show that MEMBERS of the Opposition : Hear, bear! there is about four times the mortality among them The CHIEF SECRETARY: He had a report that there is among the rest of the population. that out of 8,231 estimated islanders in the The CHIEF SECRET.\RY: That did not colony, 7,911 had been individually examined, appear to be due to any infectious or communi­ and there were only five suspicious cases cable disea,e. He had been very desirous that reported. He could not say at present whether there should be a full report from all centres of the suspicion was well founded or not ; but the settlement throughout the colony. The report figures appeared to coincide with the numbers of from Ayr was that they were all in a very lepers that the Home Secretary had given. healthy condition ; Southport, no contagious or Mr. \V, HAMILTON : There were five from infectious disease, and no chest complaint; Mackay. Beenleigh, one boy showed symptoms of leprosy, The CHIEF SECRETARY: There W•'re hut there was no other case of serious disease; estimated to be 2,074 islanders at Mackay, and Bowen, a ver.v healthy lot; Brisbane, an exception­ 1,692 were individually examined. Four of the ally healthy lot, with the exception of a few cases five were from Mackay. -two or three-of scrofula. From Bunrlaberg Mr. vV. HA}IIL'£0N: What is the date of the it was reported that the final report had not come report? to hand, but so far there was not the slightest trace '.rhe CHIEF SECRETARY: 1st September, of communicable disease; Childers, on the whole 1899. the islanders were a very healthy lot and in good Mr. LESINA: Examine 1,600 white p£·ople, and condition, and not suffering from any disease in· you will not get o.ny lepers amongst them. vol ving danger to the health of the general po[JU· The CHIEF SECRETARY: They all ad­ lation; Geraldton, one islander suffering from mitted that the'taint of leprosy was more inherent disease, probably of a syphilitic in Asiatics and the island population. [11'30 p.m.] origin ; Mackay, no remarks as to Mr. LESINA: Why introduce them, then? general health ; Proserpine, no re­ The CHIEF SECRETARY : He thought marks as to general health; Maryborough, taken these figures showed a remarkably healthy as a whole, a very healthy lot, communicable appearance, and were very satisfactory. dise:tse almost nil ; Port Douglas, taken as a Mr. LESIN A : He noticed that it cost the whole, islanders very healthy; Rockhampton, no people of Queensland about 30s. per head tu remarks; Ingham, no remarks; Thursday Island, supply the sugar plantations with cheap labour in final report not yet to hand, but so far no disease the form of kanakas. That was a serious f"ct. of either a contagious or infectious character There was no other branch of employment that noted. He did not wish to introduce a discus­ cost the country that for the labour it used. sion of a general character at tha.t hour, but it' The HOME SECRETARY: How do you get the would be satisfactory to the general public to 30s.? know that the Government were keeping this Mr. LESINA: It cost £13,275 to administer immigration under strict surveillance ; that the the fund, and there were about 8,000 kanakas in islanders were in a healthy condition ; and that the colony. That was about 30s. per bead. If no apprehension need be felt as to any danger or the taxpayers bad to pay 30s. to supply labour to menace to the sanitary conditions arising from all the industries of the colony it would mean a their presence. very serious thing. Mr. W. HAMILTON: He bad spoken of this The SECRETARY FOR AGRIOCLTURE: The tax­ medical inspection of islanders n,t the time of the payers do not pay the 30s. It comes from the general election, before it was entered upon by employers. the Government, bnt he did not think it should Mr. LESINA: vVas be to understand that be confined to kanakas. It should embrace all the coot of administering the Pacific Islanders' Asiatic aliens. Since the examination com­ Fund was borne by the employers of kanakas? menced, it had been found that there were a Mr. CowLEY : Yes, every penny ; and they number of lepers among the islanders. Although have £10,000 to their credit. the hrm, gentleman had not read out the number Mr. LE8INA: He was very glad to hear it. that bad been discovered, he knew from the papers Reference had been made to the mortality that lepers had been found among them in nearly amongst the islanders. He had a copy of every district of the colony where there were "Queensland, Past and Present," for 1897. He k~>nakas. quoted from page 112, to show that the author of 1542 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

the book drew special attention to the fact that Mulgrave Central Mill Company. But there the death rate in Queensland was adversely was a more serious evil than that existing in the affected by the presence of Pacific I slanders and district, and that was the employment of kanakas other coloured races. The death rate amongst bv Chinamen to do contract work which white those people was out of all proportion to their men previously undertook. They had been numbers, and it was stated that the mortality employed in scrub-cutting and firewood-getting, amongst Pacific Islanders had increased by 300 which used to he the exclu"ive work of white per cent. The book, which was an official people in the off season. For a considerable publication, shed a lurid light upon the time past the small farmers in the Cairns district mortality amongst those unfortunate creatures engaged in sugar-growing had complained of the who were dragged away from their Pacific employment of kanakas by Chinamen, and of homes to grind out dividel!ds for sugar com­ their inability to get the services of those people, panies in Queensland. Hon. members laughed but they got absolutely no satisfaction from the satirically at that ; but they were dragged away department for a very consiclerable time. Even­ from their homes, and he could tell the Com­ tually the secretary to the farmers' associatiOn mittee that one recruiting agent had exhibited received a reply from the Chief Secretary's to kanakas photos of nude white females, and department which proved that the employment had held it out as an inducement to them to of kanakas by Chinamen was carried out without come to Queensland that they could get plenty the knowledge of the department, although an of " White Marys" like that, if they would come officer was paid a good handsome salary to see and work on the sugar plantations. That re­ that the law was obeyed. That reply said- cruiting agent was a Labour man, and had given In reply, I am instructed by the Chief Secretary t,o up the trade now. inform you that he has caused careful inquiry to be The HOME SECRETARY: I thought so. made respecting your complaint, the result of which proves that the employment of islanders on contract Mr. LESINA: He could tell the hon. gentle­ work has for some years past, without the cognisance man of a member of his own Cabinet who had of the officer in charge of the department, been per­ been engaged in the same busine,s. There was mitted in the Cairns district. one member of the present Ca,binet in Queensland Was that not a damning indictment against any­ who was engaged some years ago in the Pacific one? There was the law being continually Island blackbirding trade. broken, and yet the officer who was paid to see The PREMIER: That is not true. that it was observed-a gentleman of the name Mr. LESINA: He knew better. It was of Shepherd-deliberately allowed the law to be perfectly true. He did not want to mention the broken under his very nose and had not the grace hon. gentleman's name, but he would do so if he to inform the head of his department. A very was pressed. The present Crown Solicitor some great deal of annoyance arid loss was caused to years ago in Bundaberg, and in that House, had the farmers of that district because they could said that they were practically manuring the not obtain the services of the kanakas in field canefields with the bodies of those. wretched labour, the Chinamen having a monopoly of their savages, and that the white females were being services, obtained very often by immoral means, made prostitutes to satisfy the inordinate such as the supply of opium. There was a great appetites of those wretched men. amount of dissatisfaction in the district on The HOME SECRETARY : That does not prove it. account of the way in which the inspector per­ Mr. LESINA: With a full opportunity to formed his duties, and that was felt by every discuss the black labour question he could pro­ employer of Polynesian labour, except, perhaps, duce facts which would startle even that lethargic one or two of the largest employers. He wanted Assembly, and which, if published in a ma,gazine to know what course the department had taken in England, would cause a cry of horror to go with regard to that officer-whether he had been throughout the length and breadth of that puri­ reprimanded for allowing the law to be broken tanicalland. It was a mistake to say that the in that barefaced manner. diseases from which those islanders suffererl were At 12 o'clock, not infectious. Mr. Comerford, of the Bunda­ berg Guardian, had died of tuberculosis, which The CHAIRMAN: In accordance withStand­ he had, on his death bed, attributed to the fact ing Order No. 171, I call upon the hon. member that the spittle of diseased kanakas had vitiated for Ipswich, Mr. Stephenson, to relieve me in the atmosphere of the district in which he had the chair. lived for some years. J!'urther proof of the Mr. STEPHENSON took the chair accordingly. infectious nature of the chest diseases from Mr. G IVENS : He had another grievance to which the kanakas suffered would be found on bring forward in connection with that officer. page 120 of the book from which he had quoted. On a C<'rtain occasion not long ago he tried, no The employment of kanakas threatened industry; doubt from the best of motives, to obtain a it threatened the physical and moral stamina of conviction against persons who were illegally the community; it threatened the health of the 'supplying grog to Polynesia us; and in order to community; and it had another effect which he do that he got himself up as a kanaka, and, would probably discuss later on. accompanied by two or three real kanakas, he Mr. GIVENS: It was very unfortunate that went into a public-house and tried to induce the a discussion of that kind should come on at such publican to supply them with liquor. The officer a late hour of the evening. It was within the was thus tempting the publican to commit a knowh;dge of most members that when kanakas crime. He must say that Mr. Shepherd made a were first introduced the sugar-planters put very good specimen of a kanaka, but he certainly forward the plea that they wanted cheap labour derogated from the dignity of his position. What with which to start the industry, and also that defence had the Chief t:lecretary to make for they only required those people for field labour. the action of his officer who had been guilty of If they had adhered to the letter of their request allowing the law to be openly broken for a number probably no outcry against the employment of of years without even informing the heads of his kanakas would have been raised, but as soon as department of it? The officer had not even been the industry was fully establi«hed they were reprimanded. more than ever anxious to obtain more kanakas, The CHIEE' SECRETARY : Has not what you and employed them in every occupation in which complain of been rectified yet? white people had previously been engaged. 'Vhen Mr. GIV:I<;NS: No. There were Chinamen the Secretary for Agriculture was in Cairns, now employing kanakas, and employing them in he pointed out to him a gang of kanakas contract work. "\Vhy should that officer be al­ working as fettlers on the tramway of the lowed to neglect his duties 2 and what was the Supply. [21 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1543 use of having him there at all if he allowed the colony in every constituency his pass would carry law to be openly broken under his nose? The him to. It only wanted a little propaganda of officer was causing great dissatisfaction to the this sort to effect a complete change in the House legitimate employers of coloured labour in the during the next twelve or eighteen months. district, and it was about time he was shifted ; Mr. COWLEY (Herbert) pointed ont that the but he seemed to be a pet of the department, and footnote "c" on the E-tirnates under this vote nothing had ever been said about him. He had was an error. The Polynesian inspector at been a!Jpointed to the position over the heads of Cairns was not land commissioner and land better men. In pri;-ate business in Brisbane he agent a.s well. had failed. Mr. LESIN A alw drew attention to a report Mr. CowLEY: He has been in the Civil which had appeared in som@ Northern pap6rs, Service over twenty-five years. that the Polynesian inspector at Port Douglas, Mr. G IVENS: But all the same he was pitch­ .:Yir. Connolly, had publicly flogged some kanakas forked over the heads of better meu. to drive them to their work. That was a pretty '£he CHIEF SECRETARY: That was the condition of affair.s in this glorious country at first time the matter had been brought under his the end of the nineteenth century. notice. The le .ter quoted by the hon. member Mr. GIV:ENS: With reference to the state­ was written by his predecessor. He could only ment of the hon. member, he had seen in Bris­ pr~mise to make inquiries; and if he found that bane la••.t night two gentlemen from the district there had been any infringement of the Act on whose word he cuuld thoroughly rely, and either at Cairns or elsewhere, he could assure the they had informed him that there was not a par­ hon. member that very decisive action would be ticle of truth in the report, and they further said taken. The hon. member was utterly mistaken th integrity and to punish anyone who He was pleased to hear the hem. member for violated it. If the hem. gentleman had informed Herbert draw attention to the error in the foot­ him of the matter earlier he would have been note. Mr. She1•herd was not land agent and prepared to a1'"wer him fully. land commissioner. Mr. \Vhite was the land Mr. GIVENS: Was it desirable that the commissioner, and he had not referred to the inspector should dress himself up as a kanaka land commissioner in his earlier remarks. The and take other kanakas with him to public­ charges made against the Polynesian inspector houses? were serious ones, and at the very least that The CHIEF SECRETARY: Very improper, in­ officer shonld be reprimanded for his neglect of dePd. duty. He said nothing abont him personally, but Mr. LESINA intended to re.fer to a statement he was not a proper man to he inspector of Poly­ made some years ago by the gentleman at present nesians. Suppose this man had succeeded in his occupying the position of Crown Solicitor. First attempt to get kanakas liquor when disguised as a he would quote a statement made by :Mr. kanaka, it was a very moot point whether he Justice Chubb, who fsaid that serious crime, on could have succeeded in obtaining a conviction. the whole, did not exist in Queensland, and that He had brought the matter forward in deference when it did exist it was generally in the case to the wishes of his constituents, and the reply of coloured people. Mr. Powers, in a speech he had received was that further inquiries would he delivered in Bundaberg in 1895, men­ be made. vVhat was the good of further inquiries? tioned the fact that the white populatinn pro­ There had been inquiries already. He wanted vided prostitutes for the kanaka population. an a~surance that some action would be taken. That gentleman also pointed out in 1~95 certain The HoME SECRETARY: You want to condemn facts in connection with the deaths of Pacific him straight away. Islanders, and by a consideration of those facts, Mr. STEW ART (Rockhampton North} : The together with other facts since obtained, he kanaka question was becoming worse every day. (:Yir. Lesina) found th:tt two out of every eleven In the Mo1·ning Bulletin, Rockhampton, of kanakas introduced into the colony had been :Monday last, there was a report of the proceed­ buried, and there were 3,240 islanders not ings in the police court in connection with a accounted for. vVhere had those 3,240 islanders charge against a South Sea Islander named J oe, been planted? Had they been buried under the who was charged with having used obscene sugar cane? language, and the police magistrate was reported Mr. CowLEY: There are 700 or 800 of them to have sa1d : "This place is swarming with free to go over the border. kanakas. The blame lies with the people who Mr. LESINA: They talked abo:1t one people employ these people against the law." Sub­ one destiny when there were about forty-five Inspector Toohey said the man carted wood for breeds of aliens in the colony. Some of them himself, whereupon the police magistrate said ought to be exhibited in the old country as pro­ the peuple who bought wood from him really ducts of our civilisation and Christianity at the employed him. The kanakas had made quite a end of the nineteenth century. He saw by that " corner" in the wond-cutting busine"s in Rock­ night's Telegraph that a tender of a Chinaman bampton. Every second woodcart that one saw named Ah Sang had been accepted by the going into the city was driven by a kanaka. Government for the supply of bread at Thursday vVhat were the Government doing? What Island. And yet some hon. members supported was the Polynesian inspector in Rockhampton a Government which did that sort of thing. doing? Apparently he had not reported to the Mr. BA!{THOLOM.EW rose to a point of Government, because they had not, as far as he order. Was the hon. member for Clermont in could gather, done anything. The time had order in making those remarks. The question come when some dPfinitP. "·"t.ion should be taken had nothing to do with Chinamen supplying with regard oo the whole question. They were bread. told than the sugar industry conld not exist The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. mem­ without this labour ; but if those engaged in it ber for Clermont is distinctly dive.rging from the could pay from £5 to £30 per acre for land to question. The question about Chinamen bakers grow sngar they did nc>t require the assistance is not pertinent to the question. of these cheap and reliable savages. He had Mr. LESINA: It was only right that those no desire to have any acquaintance with the things should be placed before the public, and inferior races, and that was the reason he was he would place them before the people of the opposed to them. And there was another reason 1544 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. that ought to appeal to every patriotic Austra­ but he promised to get the information to-mor­ lian. Did they desire to leave a legacy of disaster· row if the hon. member would let him know to the people who came after them? ·was it exectly what he wanted. · their desire and wish to demor:;,lise industrially, Question put and psssed. mentally, and physically, the whole of the popu­ POLICE SUPERA""NUATION FCND-PENSIONS. lation of Queensland? They knew what contact The HOME SECRETARY moved that with an inferior race did to the superior race ; it £15,109 2s. 6d. be granted for the Police Super­ had a continual tendency to drag the superior annuation Fund-pensions. race down to the level of the inferior race. It was impossible, almost, for a slave race to exist Mr. J<'ISHER thought the hon. gentleman side by side with a free race without con­ should give some explanation as to the state of the tamination ensuing. The United States of fund. It was 1uite impossible to legislate with­ America was an evidence of it, and the out they had the requisite information. Long coloured question was more acute there to-day ago it had been promised that something would than ever it was. Hon. m em hers might take some be done to put this fund on a true and sound comfort from the fact that the evil effects would basis. not happen in their day, but that did not influ­ The HOME SECRETARY: What they were ence him, for what he wanted to do was to lay proposing to do this year was to vote £15,109 2s. the foundation of a prosperous white race. If 6d. for the fund, but what was going to be done they wanted to live as a white community, the next year would have to be considered during soon'er they tackled the alien question the better the recess. The report on the matter was a very for themselves. It was idle to say that white able one, and showed that the total liability people could not grow sugar. He had seen a with regard to the fund was £463,981. That white settler with his wife and family doing the was the liability for the establishment of the same work that kanakas did, and though it might fund, which, bearing interest at 3 per cent., not be pleasant, it did them no harm. He did would clear off all liability, and the principal not think even in the sugar industry the em­ would still be left to the good. That was ployment of aliens was either necessary 'or only an estimate, which it had been found desirable. Then another important aspect of very difficult to verify ; but it was based the question was the danger arising from on the ordinary life-tables. It might err on the diseases imported by kanakas, morP especially side of being an under-estimate, because the the disease of ,eprosy. That disease was entirely police were a body of picked men and their unknown until the coloured races brought it occupation was not very arduous. The sug'ges­ here, and now hardly a day passed without a tion as to further leg-islation was worthy of fresh kanaka leper being discovered. It was consideration. Neither thia nor the last Parlia­ high time therefore that something was done, ment, nor the one before that, wa.s responsible not only in the interests of the white race, but for the statP of affairs at present existing, and he in the interests of the bnakas themselves. They did not think it was desirable for anyone to were told that the kanakas were becoming ex­ plunge into questions of compensation without hausted. If the sugar industry could not live considering the full liability under any scheme without aliens, what was to be done when the proposed. supply was exhausted? \V ere they to have Mr. FISHER agreed with the last remark of coolies or Japanese? The que.~tion was a much the hon. gentleman, and he thought the matter larger and wider one than bon. gentlemen of pensions should be carefully considered. The generally supposed. Its possibilities for evil persons who were to benefit by this fund should were immense, and he urged upon the Govern­ subscribe the whole amount. The fund had ment the necessity for bridling it. been insolvent for many years. Mr. KIDSTON (Rockhampton) added his The HoME SECRETARY : It has always been insolvent; it was established on an insolvent prote~t to the protPsts of other hon. members against the continuance of this objectionable basis. traffic. Everyone knew that the reason why Question put and passed. people employed these men was because they MARINE DEPARTMENT. could make money out of them. Kanakas were The TREASURER (Hon. R. Philp, Towns­ wanted in Queensland for the same reason that ville) moved that £70,385 be granted for the Africans were wanted in America years ago · :il.'larine Department. There was an increase in and it was a curious thing that the most the vote of £7,000, mostly caused by improve­ profitable form of agriculture in the colony was ments in the Brisbane River, the Fitzroy River, this branch in which kanakas were employed. and at Cairns. There were a few increases in Yet it had been shown that the work of growing halaries. He denied that the cost of working sugar could be done by white men, so that there the dredges and the river improvements came was really no necessity to have kanakas here. out of the revenue fund. All the harbours in And, apart from that aspect of the question the colony stood on the same footing now. there waR the great race question, the considera~ Last year the Government ordered two dredges tion of which made every well-wisher of the of the most improved typt>, and it was colony desire to leave those men outside our intended first of all to improve the river >bores. It was not only that they competed in at Kangaroo Point, and he hoped a start would the labo_ur mayket with white workers; they very soon be made to relieve that part of the also by mtenmxture tended to deteriorate the river, As soon as that work was done wharves white race growing up in Queensland. Prosti­ could be built opposite Petrie's Bight. He hoped tution was another evil connected with the intro­ that when the new dredges arrived the Govern­ duction of these coloured races, and the more ment would be able to do something more for those races were admitted into Queensland the the far Northern ports. The Norman River grosser would the evil become. wanted dredging very ba.dly, and, as soon as he could, he would make a start with it. He also Mr. STEWART said the receipts on account hoped to he able to improve the harbour of of the fm:d last year amounted to £12,270 3s, 5d. Cairns considerably. Where did that money come from, and what proportion was paid by the planters? HoN. E. B. FORREST : He should like to know the intentions of the Government with The CHIEF SECRETARY regretted that regard to a harbour board for Brisbane, and owing to the lateness of the hour, the officers of more particularly in connection with the endow­ the department were not present with the papers, ment. He should also like to know what Supply. [21 DECEMBER.] Supply. 1545

steps had been taken with regard to the re­ no harbour boards should be able to draw on the sumption of land at Kangaroo Point. In loan funds, while those that had harbour boards connection with this, there cropped up the shonld be strictly confined to their own revenues. matter of the application of Messrs. Howard The TREASURER: He did not think the Smith and Sons, Limited, for a wharf on the dredges would be stationed at any one port per­ opposite side of the river. He took it that, as manently. He was in hopes that they would soon as there were any signs of improvement in make every port in the colony. The question of cutting down the Point, permission would be endowment would have to be gone into tho­ given to the company to build the wharf. It roughly. The cash endowment paid last year was very desirable it should be given. The com­ was based on the revenue received, and he pany wanted accommodation, and they were pre­ thought something like that principle would pared to expend from £50,000 to £60,000. He have to be applied so far as lands and dredges did not suppose the Government had come to any were concerned. In the rr!Pantime the money decision yet with regard to flood prevention ; but could not be apportioned, because they did not he should like to have any information as to what know where the dredges were going. were their intention··'· 'l'hen with regard to the Mr. KIDSTON agreed that the way in which quay line. It was desirable that that line, which the endowment was apportioned last year was people had been working to for many years, fair, and he hoped the same principle would be should be adhered to as closely as possible. adopted in future. The TREASURER: He should not consent Mr. FORS¥TH asked when dredges would to any alteration in the quay line nnle's very be sent to the Norman and Burketown bars as good reasons were shown for it, and only after promised by the Treasurer? due notine had been given to the parties inter­ The TREASURER : He hoped the " Casua­ ested, so that they would have an opportunity of rina" would be available to be sent to the debating the question. He was exceedingly Norman bar at the end of the wet season. The anxious that a harbour board should be estab­ hon. member must remember that the large sum lished for Brisbane; but until it had been formed of £40,000 had been spent on the Norman bar the Government wouH not cease in their endea­ with no good result, but it was hoped that vours to make the port suitable for the larg-est future operations would be more successful. vessels coming to the colonies. The matter of Mr. BARTHOLOMEW pointed out that the the resumption of land at Kangaroo Point was \Vide Bay and Burnett districts were unfortu­ now being considered. The Port Office authori­ nately situated on account of the preferential ties seemed to think that more should be taken rates at which sugar was c.arried past the ports off than Colonel Pennycuick, and make one of Maryborough and Bundaberg. The rate job of the whole business. The matter of charged on the railway could not possibly P"'Y• flood prevention "'as a very big one, and but it operated very unfairly agaimt the ports. nothing could be done in connection with In the same way, the gold produced in Gympie it without parliamentary sanction. The report did not go to the credit of the port of Mary­ of Colonel Pennycuick had only been in the borough, hut went to Brisbane, and the hon. hands of the Government about three weeks, member for Brisbane North took credit to Bris­ and there had not been time to sufficiently bane, and included those items in the return he consider it. Of course the Government must, had referred to. lTnder these circumstances, he in the fir~t instance, advance the money; but thought the ports of Maryborough and Bunda­ how it was to be repaid was rather a grave berg deserved very great assistance at the hands matter, and would have to be considered very of the Government. fully. With regard to the endowment of Mr. FISHER: The hon. member was per­ harbour boards the Government were in rather fectly correct in saying that the port of Mary­ a difficulty.. The greater portion of the front­ borough suffered materially in consequence of ages at Brisbane had been alienated before the the sugar grown in the district passing the port colony was separated from New South \Vales. of Maryb<•rough and being credited to Brisbane. In fact, the only wharf of any importance they That was a great a.nomaly. He conld imagine had now was that at Pinkenba. At the other what a stir there would be if sugar grown in the ports, however, such as Rockhampton and Moreton district was passed on to Sydney under Townsville, the frontages had not been sold, a preferential railway tariff. It was only by and they were able to endow the boards there rea,on of th9 extravagant demands of Brisbane with the frontag-es, which were bringing in a that Maryborongh was treated so badly ; and he large revenue. He could assure the Committee did not know of any other place where one town that the Government would push on the matter was punished by the Government for the benefit of the board fur Brisbane as quickly as possible, of another. and that he hoped to see a start made with the Mr. McDONNEL L said that for six years the Kangaroo Point reclamation at an early date. people of Brisbane, and other places concerned, Mr. STEW ART: Are they deepening the en­ had been anxiously looking forward to a flood trance to Broad mount? prevention scheme, and now that the Govern­ The TREASURER: The work was in progress, ment were in possession of Colonel Pennycuik's and he understood a very good job was being report he hoped they would be able t,, come made of it. It was hoped that two or three down with a scheme next year and put it into months would see it finished. He understood operation. that when it was finished, vessels drawing thirty Question put and passed. feet of water would be able to go in there, as the tidal rise was from fifteen to twenty feet. GOVERNMENT SAVINGS BANK. Mr. KIDSTON: A statement issued last The TREASURER moved that £10,441 be year showed that the port of Brisbane had over­ granted for Government Savings Bank. There drawn to the extent of some £23,000. The sum was an increase of nearly £1,000, owing to the had been made up, he supposed, out of endow­ increase in the staff. ment? Mr. STEWART found from the Savings Bank The TREASURER : Yes. Act that two-thirds of the money deposited was Mr. KIDS TON: The amount which wa.s set supposed to be invested in Government securities. down for new dredges should either be debited According to the last account, the total sum to those ports which had no harbour boards, or deposited was £3,224,293, and two-thirds of that the ports which had boards should get an amount was £2,149,528; bnt, instead of that sum equivalent sum by way of endowment. It being so invested, the amount was only £1,824,000 seemed to him unfair that the ports which had so that there was a sum of £325,404 not dealb 1546 [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. with according to the Act. The Act said the securities amounted to about £400,000 less than Treasurer should only keep in hand sufficient to required by the Act. He also stated that Sir carry on the day-to-day business of the bank, and Hugh Nelson had followed the same course. But that the remainder should he invested in deben­ the policy of Sir H ugh Nelson had been to reduce tures or other Government securities; but instead tbe deposits in the savings bank as much as of doing that the Treasurer had about £1,400,000 possible. \Yhat he desired was that the people continually at current account. He wished to should put their money into speculative know whether the hon. gentleman intended to concerns; and, with that object in view, he comply with the provisions of the Act, or go on reduced the interest. Probably that might be as at present? the aim of the present Treasurer, but he The TREASURER said that what was being did not think it was sound policy. He done now was just what had been done by thought they should invest their money with the previous Treasurers. Every time a loan was Government, and th>•t they would prefer to accept floated the two-thirds required by the Act small interest and have a really absolute was made up. The whole estate and the whole security. The Treasurer was practicelly getting credit of the colony was security for the deposits an unauthmised loan of £1,000,000 at 2 per in the Government Savings Bank ; and there was cent., and some means should be provided to not a safer investment. for people anywhere. prevent that being done. Would it not be They kept £1,000,000 vf debentures in London, better for certain Tre:tsury bills to be issued which could be realised at any moxnent; so that from time to time to take up the surplus of the there was always plenty of money at hand to savings bank money, so that at ar,y time there meet demands. would not be any less than the minimum allowed Mr. KIDSTON: No one imagined for a by the Act. Then the bank would get a proper moment that the funds of the Government legal in vestment at 3 per cent., instead of one at Savings Bank were not safe; but the complaint 2 per cent., for which there W11s no authority. was that the Treasurer had acted in direct viola­ He admitted lhat the investment was sound, tion of the law, which provided that the rrea­ but the interest was not enough. vVhy should surer should invest two-thirds in debentures, and the Government pay 1 per cent. less than the of the remaining one-third he should hoB such market rate and d1sallow it to depositors? part as he deemed nece•s'lfY to carry on the busi­ The TREASUREI\: \Ve are only getting 1 per ness of the savings bank at current account in cent. ourselves. some bank carrying on business in Brisbane, and Mr. FISHER: He did not say it was not the remainder of the one-third shcmld be treated proper to use this money, but the hon. gentle­ as the first two-thirds-that was, invest it in man should not try to lead hon. members to Government securities on the authority of a J.,oan believe that this money was in the Queensland Bill. The complaint was that the Treasurer had National Bank and returning only 1 per cent. treated some of that money in a different way­ The position was unsatisfactory, although he that he had got a lCJan out of the bank's money admitted the bank wa,; perfectly safe. without the authority of the House. There was :iYir. KIDSTON : The Treasurer told hon. no i'-'"tification in saying that other Treasurers members that he had the authority of two had done the same thing. It was not only wrong, previous Treasurers for acting as he had done. but it was setting a bad example. All he (Mr. Kidston) could say was that, if two The TREASURER: The Act distinctly past Treasurers had done as he had, they had stated- broken the law. The hon. gentleman could not Two-third p:trts thereof at the least shall be invested get authority from previous Treasurers to borrow in the purchase of or by way of loan upon the security this money. He could only get it from that of Queensland Government debentures or Treasury bills Chamber. 'l'he offence the hnn. gentleman had is,,ued under the authority of any Government Loan been guilty of was that he refrained from bring­ Act or Acts authorbing the issue of 'freasury bills (such pnrehase or loan to be 1irst approved of by the Governor ing in a Loan Bill last session. AccordinR to the in Council) and as to the remaining third pat·t thereof report of the Government Savings Bauk for the the Oolonial 'freasurer shall l'Ctain in his hands such year ended the 30th of June la,t, there was a portion as shall in his opinion be necessary for carry­ cash credit in the Queensland National Bank ing on the ordinary business of the Government Savings of £1,400,000. There was not any such !1mount Bank. there. Then it was also stated that the mterest They purposed doing that. What better se­ received from the Que;msland National Bank curities could there be than debentures? Every­ was £24,000. Anyone would imagine that the one would admit that Sir Hngh Nelson was a Queensland National Bank was paying that very careful Treasurer, and he had done the interest, when, as a matter of fact, the same thing. Seeing that by the last Treasury Treasurer was paying almost the whole of it. statement cover was required for about £2()0,000, A Hockhampton paper, speaking about tbat Sir Hugh, who was one of the trusteee, made matter, said the Audit Act permitted the Trea­ inquiries at the Treasury, and he was quite satis­ surer to draw upon any fund at his command to fied when he was assured that the ma,tter would meet the obligations incurred under the authority be attended to when Parliament authorised the of Parliament, but the Audit Act did nothing next lnan. The Auditor-General evidently did of the sort, and he was not sure that the Auditor­ not think there was any re:lson to vary the estab­ General had been doing his duty. He did not liHhed practice, becaus': the only rema'rk he made think he should have countersigned the warrants was that "there is some money available for in­ for those money,;, because he was instructed that, ve,tment in Gnvernment eecurities when such are before countersigning, he should ascertain that forthcoming." Hon. members should be satisfied the sums therein mentioned were those legally that the Government Savings Bank funds were available for, and applicable to, the services perfectly safe. It was impossible to adhere mentioned in such instrument, and, in ca£e strictly to the letter of the Act, but the deposi­ the snms therein mentioned were not legally tors had not "uffered and nothing wrong had been available, he should withhold his counter­ done, so there was no need for any scare on the signature to the certificate. That was clear and matter. The people of the colony bad every explicit. Until by authority of a Loan Act the confidence in the bank, and it was very important Treasurer issued debentures and took over the that nothing should be done to shake that confi­ Savings Bank funds into loan funds he could not dence. legally touch a penny for loan purposes. He was Mr. FISHER: The hon. gentleman contended aware th:tt there was a limited power of transfer that no Treasurer could comply with the Act, granted under the Audit Act, but that did not and practically admitted that the investments in permit him to use other funds for loan purposes, Supply. [21 DEbllMBER.] Supply. 1541

If he could increase the public indebtedness members would now say that if there was a run by taking in money into the loan fund in on the Government Savings Bank the liabilities Brisbane, he could do the same in London. could not be met. The hon. gentleman knew quite well that Mr. KIDSTON : The hon. gentlPman did not all the legitimate loan money was exhaustec! a recognise the difference between an offence for long time before the 30th June last. Even the which a man might be impeached and an offence Brisbane Courier, a Government org~n, pointed for which he was only subject to the criticism of out that too much stress could not be laid the House. He did not seem to understand the on the evil of going outside the path laid first principle of representative government­ down by the statute, and that if that kind of that no Treasurer should have any money in his thing was allowed to go on Parliament House possession unless Parliament gave it to him. might as well be advertised to be let. If the He had no authority to borrow 1s. without the Treasurer could raise a loan without the authority of Parliament, and the Treasurer hild authority of Parliament, he could carry on the borrowed money without the sanction of business of the country without calling Parlia­ Parliament. He had cho"en the illegal ment together. The hon gentleman, it had been way-getting hold of Government Savings Bank pointed out, had taken credit to himself for money. The Treasurer had not a great deal of saving 1 per cent. Perhaps he did save it to the money, because the money in England would be Treasury, but he illegally robbed the savings wanted to pay the next interest on the public bank, and he allowed gold to lie idle in the debt, and he was a long way short of £310,000. Treasury, not earning anything- at all, when The hon. gentleman had induced Parliament to he could legally make it earn money; .so that sanction the spending of money on certain public the colony had lost within five years the sum works, when there was no money available for of £23,000. A very appreciable margin of gold the carrying Ut of those works. Of the amount over and above one-quarter of the total issue taken out of the Government Savings Bank, of Treasury notes required by law had been £471,000 bad been spent during five months of kept in the Treasury. The number of Trea­ the current financial year, and, giving the hon. sury notes had increased, but that was simply gentleman credit for the £420,000 lying at fixed because the banks wanted them. They were deposit, that would leave a balance of £935,000. issued at a loss to the Treasury. The hon. That, he thought, showed that the Treasurer gentleman Haid he w"" not so fonlish as to go was not justified in allowing the last session to home and float a loan just now,--as if members be closed without passing a Loan Bill. If he had on the Oppvsition side wanted him to do so. done that, the matter would have been all plain They did not want him to do so now, but they sailing. pointed out that he had not brought in a Loan Mr. STEW ART: In the report of the pro­ Bill when he should have done so. The fact that ceedings of the Government Savings Bank there things had been done illegally should go forth to was the item "CrediLed by the Queensland the people. National Bank for intereHt, £24,000." Anyone The CHIEF SECRETARY : Has our money been would imngine that had been paid by the jeopardised? bank, when, as a matter of fact, it had been Mr. KIDS TON: No, not in the slightest paid by the Treasurer. Then, i'1 the Auditor­ degree. Nobody on the Opposition side ever General's report, Appendix D, there was the hinte:l in the slightest way that the funds were item "Received as interc·st on public balance, in danger in the slightest degree. If the Treasurer £88,535"; bnt on page 12 of that report it would admitted, as he must admit, that he had acted be found that the sum credited in the com;oli­ in violation of statute law of the colony on this dated revenue account as having been received matter, he should apologise to hon. members, and for intereot was .£63,543. The point he wished promise that he would not act in that way again, to make was that the revenue had heen under­ and he should promise further that he would have stated by the difference betwe2n £63,000 and the law amended. £88,000, and that the expenditure had also been The TREASURER : He could not see that understated. · there was any need for him to apologise in this The TREASURER : By £24,000. matter. His action had been perfectly straight­ Mr. STE\V ART: It did not <1ffect the forward, and he h,1d only done whateveryprevions financial position of the colony at all; but it was Treasurer had done. He was glad thehon. member not a correct method of dealing with the accounts. admitted that the money in the Government The whole of the interest should have been cre­ Savings Bank ran no risk. If he would turn up the dited to the consolidated revenue, and the various Auditor-General's report, page 10, he would sae payments should have been stated on the debit that the Government had authority under differ­ side. It should have been paid into the consoli­ ent Acts to issue Treasury bills up to £1,817,100, dated revenue first, and then paid out of that but that would not be a good investment into the other accounts. Some encouragement for the Savings Bank, and he thought it should be given to investors in this colony who was better to wait for a new Loan Bill. desired to lend money to the Government. The He had been blamed for not keeping sufficient Government paid more interest to people in the gold on !:and, and he had been blamed for keep­ old conntrv from whom they borrowed than to ing too much gold on hand. The bank balances people froin whom they borrowed here. If they on the 30th November showed that they had borrowed here they had a double advantage; plenty of money avaih>ble-about £310,000. He they got the money at a lower rate, and the did not feel at all guilty with regard to having interest was spent in the colony. In fact, it would used some of the Government Savings Bank pay the colony almost as well to borrow here at money, instead of letting it lie idle. If it had 3~ per cent. as in London at 3 per cent. been lent on mortgage it might be a different The TREASURER: He was exceedingly thing, but money lent to the Government was anxious to encourage the people of the colony to the best security that could be had. It was not advance money to the Government. The firRt convenient to purchase debentures every day. £1,000,000 of Treasury bills that were sold, and Two years ago he was blamed for having such a on which 3l; per cent. interest was being paid, large balance at the Queensland National Bank­ were sold at £99 and finished selling at £103 10s. £900,000, but that had been reduced to £300,000. Then money got much cheaper and the naxt bills The money held by the Bank of England was were sold at 3 per cent., and they had been perfectly safe, and was returning more interest, selling at £99. It was a wise thing to keep a large amount of Mr. STEW_\.RT: There is not much demand at coin on hand, and he did not think that bon, that price? 1548 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The TREASURER: There was not a great LOAN FUND ACCOUNT-LAND DEFENCE. deal. The Government did not want to have The CHIEF SECRETARY moved that money lying iu the bank getting only 1 per cent. £2G,6f50 be gran~e.d by way of. loan ±:or land They had been urged to reduce the interegt, but defence (subdiviSIOn). The Items mcluded they thought it was low enough. If the next £2,000, Lytton defences; £5,15001 small arms loan did not realise more then £95 or £96, they and ammunition • £2,150, two 4'7-mch guns for might increase it. Magazine Island-"--an additional amount ; £3,opo, Mr. FISHER: It would be interesting to rifle ranges, formation, etc; £1,200, submarme know who the parties were who suggested a mining equipment; £5,000, stores and armoury further reduction of interest. He wished to buildings, Victoria Barracks ; £!,300, .Thursday bring under the notice of the Treasurer the Island defenceo; and £500, contmgenc1es. ad visableness of offering to friendly societies a Mr. PETRIE (Toombul) asked wl).ether the higher rate of interest. He thought their money Minister could give any information wrth reg~rd was worth 3~ per cent., seeing the benefits they to an application that had been made for a rrfle conferred on the community. range at Pinkenba. Question pnt and passed. The CHIEF SECRETARY: Had any parti­ MEAT AND DAIRY PRODUCE ENCOURAGEMENT cular piece of land been pointed out in making ACT m• 1893. the application? The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE Mr. PETRIE: No. (Hon. .T. V. Chataway, Mackay) mo1•ed that The CHIEF SECRETARY: The policy of £800 be grante.d under the Meat and Dairy Pro­ the Government was to encourage the establish­ duce Encourageme.nt Act of 1893. There was a ment of rifle clubs. For some time there had slight increase in the vote, owing to the greater been under consideration the question of estab­ number of works that had to be visited by lishing a central rifle range fo~ . the different inspector~;. corps about Brisbane, but no demswn had been Question put and passed. arrived at yet. Mr. BRO\VNE protested against going on CHilll!' INSPECTOR 01<' STOCK. with the Loan Estimates at a quarter-past 4 The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE in the morning. They had already d~me ": good moved that £18,119 be granted for Chief Inspec­ deal of busine.ss, and it. was not a farr. thmg to tor of Stock. The vote was, for the first time, deal with some of the Important questwns con­ presente.d in a consolidated form, which would nected with the Loan Estimates at that hour. lead to a more equitable apportionment of the funds. There were a few increases to the inspec­ Mr. COWLEY trusted that the Committee tors and office staff, and a slight decrease in would go on with business. There was no House contingencies in the world that took such a long time in passing the E"timates. Mr. LESINA drew attention to the case of The PREMIER: He did not wish to weary Mr. \V. H. Ramm, of Mount M organ, who claimed hon. ~embers, but he was anxious that the session to have been the

Mr. KERR : I withdraw them in deference to Mr. MoDONNELL thought the Govern­ the Standing Orders; but I still believe it. ment had no cause to complain, but the members Mr. J. HAMII.TON: That is not withdrawing. of the Opposition had, because the Electoral The CHAIRMAN : The hon. gentleman must Reform Bill had not been gone on with, and withdraw them unreservedly. because there was no official record of their Mr. KERR: I will not withdraw them, and speeches-one of which, delivered by the hon. you can do what you like. member for Rockhampton, was an able exposi­ Mr. FISHER : It is a statement of fact. tion of the matter then under discussion. He The PREMIER hoped the hon. member would trusted the House would adjourn. withdraw the remarks. They did not want any The PREMIER : Since he had last spoken scenes. he had consulted with the leader of the Mr. KmsTON: It may not be parliamentary, Opposition (Mr. Dawson), and as he had that bnt it is quite true. hon. gentleman's assurance that he would use The PRE?viiER again expressed the hope that his influence to get through business quickly the hon. gontleman would withdraw his remarks. and assist him in bringing the session to a close, . The ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. A. he was willing that the House should adjourn . Rutledge, JWaranoct) trusted the hon. gentleman He was confident the hon. member would do his would withdraw the expression. best to assist him in that. In that belief, he had Mr. KJJ.RR: In deference to the wishes of much pleasure in consenting to the adjournment the House, I withdraw them. of the House. Mr. FISHER thought this should be an inti­ Mr. KmsToN, by leave, withdrew his motion. mation to the Premier to close the sitting. He The House resumed ; the CHAIRMAN reported could see the temper of the Committee, and he that the Committee had come to certain resolu­ could not improve it by further discussion. tiOns ; and the Committee obtained leave to sit The ATTORNEY-GENERAL pointed out again at a later hour of the day. that in all his long experience although the House MESSAGES FROM THE COUNCIL. had sat up till very close to Christmas, it had not The following messages, received from the sat after Christmas, and urged that it was a Legislative Council, were ordered to be taken reasonn.hle proposition to conclude the session into consideration at a later hour of the day:­ before the holidays. Message, returning the Railway Acts Amend­ Mr. DAWSON: A reasonable proposition is ment Bill with an amendment. to adjourn until after the new year. Message, returning the Mount 1\Iorgan Ga• The ATTORN~~Y-GENERAL did not regard and Lighting Company, Limited, Bill that as a fair proposition. It would break up with an amendment. members' arrangements, and probably keep them J\Ic'3sage, returning the Public Service Act there until the end of January. The discussions Amendment Bill with an amendment. on some of the Estimates had been unusually Message, asking the concurrence of the lengthy, and members on his side of the House, Assembly in a resolution to the effect in C'msequence of that, had refrained from that the Buildings, Refreshment-room, speakin;;, although they had really desired to and Library Committees should continue give exprPssion to their opinions. their functions during the recess. Mr. KIDSTON : The Attorney - General The House adjourned at thirty-seven minutes expected them to stop all further discussion past 5 o'clock. because the Government assured them there had been plenty of discussion; but he would. point out that the reasonable limit of criticism was to be judged by the Opposition, and not by the Government. The CHAIRMAN : I would remind the hon. member that there is a motion before the Com­ mittee, and I must ask him to confine his remarks to that. Mr. KIDS TON : To put himself in order he could move a motion, but he did not desire to do so, believing that by a little discussion some arrangement could be arrived at. • The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The Premier has made a most reasonable proposition. He will adjourn if you will try to bring the session to an end this week. Mr. KIDSTON: The Opposition simply wanted to transact the business with due care and untrammelled discussion. After some further remarks the hon. member was called to order, and to put himself in order he moved that the Chairman leave the chair, report progress, and ask leave to sit again. Mr. FISHER spoke in favour of an adjourn­ ment, so that members might get away for a time and come back in a better condition to do busines,;. Mr. KIDS TON thought it was only a reason able thing that the Committee should adjourn, because many of the matters to come on were of great importance. If the Government attempted to use brute forcP, they would be met with force. The PREMIER : It was unfair to charge the Government with using brute force. He was willing to move the adjournment if he had the assurance of the leader of the Opposition that he would use his influence to close the session this week. · ·