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MONDAY, JANUARY 28, 1935 Washington, C. the Committee Met MONDAY, JANUARY 28, 1935 UNITED STATES SENATE, COMMITTEE ON Washington, C. The committee met, pursuant to call, at a. m., in the Finance Committee Room, Senate Office Senator Pat Harrison, chairman, presiding. Present: Senators Harrison (&airman), King, Walsh, Connally, Gore, Costigan, Bailey, Clark, Black, Gerry, Couzens, Metcalf, Hastings, Capper. L The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order. The witness this morning is Mr. William Green, president of the American of Labor. STATEMENT OF WILLIAM GREEN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FED­ ERATION OF LABOR The CHAIRMAN. your own way, Mr. Green, you can present your views with reference to Senate bill ’ GREEN. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee: I assure you that I am pleased with the opportunity to present to the viewpoint of labor regarding the social-security legisla­ Consideration of unemployment in this country is by no means new. During every depression we have had in recent years we have talked unemployment insurance. Any plans for unemployment were always forgotten, however, with a return of prosperity. Unemployment comes into being with the system, and grows with it. The United States is the last great industrial country to give serious consideration to a system of unemployment insurance. We are, indeed, decades behind in the development of a social program. Comprehensive systems of unem­ ployment have been in practical operation in various foreign countries for many years. Opposition to unemployment insurance in this country is based primarily upon the claim that it is unnecessary, that unemployment is not an insurable risk, and that even if we did manage to insure our millions of wage against their great risk of unemployment, the effect upon them and upon the Nation would be harmful, Today we need not convince either the lawmakers of this country or the people themselves that we need a broad system of social insur­ ance, covering unemployment, old age, care of dependent and unem­ ployable persons. The lives of millions of our people are by the fear of losing their jobs. Economic security is today and will be for a long time to 141 142 ECONOMIC SECURITY ACT come our greatest national problem. Our belief that this problem would care of itself has been rudely shattered by the bitter experi­ ences of the past 5 years. I believe every one realizes that we now take positive to provide a reasonable amount of economic security to those millions of our population who are, even in the best times, always on the edge of want and destitution. Their wages are so low that even while they are fully employed, they are unable to make provision for unem­ ployment savings. They are always conscious of their com­ plete lack of security. It has been estimated and at least families, or over one-third of total population, were poverty, many of them even below the minimum subsist­ ence level. Those people had and can have no savings to see them through even a brief period of unemployment. Even were savings possible, however, it would still be highly unjust that they should be expected to bear the cost of unemployment for which they are them- selves in no way responsible. The need for security can be shown most clearly by the number of persons who are now on the rolls of the unemployed. In November 1934, more than men and women were still looking for work. The figure for December will probably be even greater than that. This means that 31 percent of the total number of earners and small salaried workers in the United States were out of jobs in November, and this does not include from to additional workers who had emergency employ men t only. Great as these numbers are, they by no means represent the total number of wage earners who have suffered from unemployment dur­ ing the past year. There is a constant of places between unemployed and employed. That unemployment is by no means confined to periods of depres­ sion must also be remembered. Even in periods of prosperity, un­ employment is the greatest hazard which wage earner has to meet. In for example, when was at its lowest figure during the of the over one and a half million were unemployed, representing 5.2 percent of the num­ ber of wage earners and salaried workers of country. The Ohio on Unemployment reported in 1932 that during 4 out of the 7 years from 1923 to 1929, average number of unemployed in the State represented more than 10 percent of the total number of wage earners and salaried workers in the State. So far we have tried to meet this tremendous problem through relief only, and in the past or years relief has done much. But we see in continued dependence upon relief the gravest dangers to our wage-earning population. Relief must not be considered the solu­ tion of the problem of personal economic security and of national economic security. Relief must be a temporary and emergency measure, unless we wish so seriously to undermine that men and women will never again be self-sustaining of self-respecting citizens. To refer to the service of the trade unions, the service which the trade unions have rendered in the organized labor’s attempt to extend temporary relief during these of unemployment, the report to the last convention of the American of Labor which was held in San Francisco last October, showed members of organized ECONOMIC SECURITY ACT 143 labor contributed out of earnings more during the year for unemployment relief, sickness and out-of-work benefits. Some of our trade unions are struggling in an effort to care for their unemployed members, and as a result are a very large percentage of own earnings for the of care of the unemployed. Senator CLARK. Do you ‘mean that figure which you have mentioned was by the organizations or through the organizations? GREEN. By the labor organizations, over in 1 I assume that you prefer work relief, increased cost to the Federal Treasury? GREEN. I beg your pardon? Senator COSTIGAN. I assume that you prefer work to relief in a monetary sense even at increased cost to the Federal Treasury? GREEN. Oh, yes; yes, indeed. Work first. Relief only when work cannot be supplied. Senator COUZENS. Do you mind if I ask you a question now? Mr. GREEN. No, sir; at any time. Senator In your study on this unemployment situation during your conventions, have you given any consideration to great excess capacity of labor in such as coal mines and copper mines, and so forth? Mr. GREEN. That is a problem that we have given special attention Senator COUZENS. Have you reached any solution of it? GREEN. Only that we have recommended a reduction of the hours of labor so that we could spread the amount of work among more people. The other problem of excess labor in mining and .in other lines is a problem that in our opinion must be approached in a careful way because of the independent nature of the coal miner, which makes it very difficult to persuade him to shift and leave and go to other places. Senator COUZENS. Can you conceive how this so-called ’ work program” is going to give work in the mining districts and the copper to the excess amount of labor? Mr. GREEN. I could not answer that question at moment, Senator, because I have not gone into but the that in road building and perhaps in reforestation, grade crossings-that is, of grade and public works of that kind, the miners will be drawn from homes and in their localities into public works if the work is accorded them. I have found that a very large number of miners have left the mines and gone into the rubber-manufacturing industries, and into auto- mobiles. Senator COUZENS. Have you any figures as to how many have been taken out of those fields? Mr. GREEN. No; except in Illinois, whereas in 1917 to 1923 there were practically 80,000 miners in that State, there are less 50,000 In Ohio runs about in the same way. The reduction in the number employed has been very great. They have been absorbed in some other lines of industry, and as I say, I have found a great many of them have found work in automobiles, number in rubber, borne in textiles and other places. 144 ECONOMIC SECURITY ACT Senator The which is quite frequently made that these miners will not leave localities is not quit-e true then? It is difficult to prevail upon them to do it, but economic pressure forces them out, and just simply have to go in some instances, and as a result of it, they have gone in large numbers. Senator There has been a great deal of competition, has there not, especially in the bituminous mines; that is, there were too many mines for the consumption of the coal had to be pro­ duced? Mr. GREEN. You see, are two things. The coal-mining is over-developed; and, secondly, they have mechanized mines, and has displaced a large number of miners. Senator Have you any information as to how many men have been put out of work through the mechanization of the mines? GREEN. I could not tell you what percentage of these, say, 30,000 or more in Illinois have been displaced by machinery, but a very large number of them, Senator, have been displaced mechanization. Senator COUZENS. Your organization being so largely spread out over the do you not keep any figures or statistics *with relation to that? Mr.
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