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•5 night for a teen-age magazine and I had •Q. all these cans of films silting there and With a negative pick-up from United Ar­ wondering what I would do with them, tists Cross Country, Paul Lynch's latest While I was working at the teen-age feature awaiting release, would seem magazine, the editor brought in a guy to be a filmmaker's dream come true. called Bill Gray and said "this is Bill Gray Yet the case of Paul Lynch is not without and he's going to do some columns for a profound ambivalence :few Canadian us, so I feel you should meet him.' So we directors have travelled from the criti­ were sitting around chatting and I said cal esteem accorded The Hard Part 'What do you do?' and he said he edited Begins (1973) to the contempt of the promos for CTV. 'Like editing films ?' He reviews for Humongous (198Z). As John said "yes.' I said "I think I should buy you Harkness wrote o/Humongous in this dinner.' So I bought him dinner and I magazine: "every time you think the said, 'I have all these cans of films.' At Canadian film industry has hit rock the time he was free-lance or un­ bottom, something comes along to employed. I asked him if he would like prove not only that it could get worse, to edit so he said, "Why not ? I haven't got but It already has." anything else to do.' I would borrow For Lynch, who leaves critics to their editing rooms from commercial places opinions, the focus has been on the and we would go in and edit. day-to-day reality of "keeping an in­ dustry rolling." But his own career And slowly my epic 19-minute film on itself eloquently bespeaks the nature of teen-age marriage got cut to twelve that roller-coaster. The interview, minutes and we sold it and that started conducted by Connie Tadros in Mont­ the association with Bill Gray, which real took place late September, 1982. dates back from day one. Through the CBC providing the money, and people who worked at it, cameramen, people Paul Lynch : When I started out, the like that, providing the insight and Bill CBC was the backbone of independent Gray editing, they took me to become a filmmaking. You used to be able to walk filmmaker. And I will always be glad into the CBC with an idea, and they and thankful for the CBC for that; I got would give you money and encourage­ them as they were on their last legs, Paul Lynch when the CBC was still an open door ment, and leach you how to make films. Now that door is locked, and I think it's You could start with a 12-minute docu­ unfortunate because they used to have mentary and work your way up to a half so many series that you could work for, hour or one-hour documentary. Three dramas and documentan- alike. years after I'd started working for them, for no known reason, they decided to find new directors in drama. The drama Cinema Canada: How much work Working-class hero department was next to "Telescope" did you do there ? and as soon as I heard it, I wandered Paul Lynch : I think I did 35 films ; over and they started to give me a drama several is-minute films, half-hour films, series. There were four of us... documentaries for "Telescope," for by Connie Tadros "Gallery," docu-dramas for the school and youth department. In those days, Cinema Canada : You were in docu­ thev would give me S10,000 and I would mentary before ? go out and hire a writer. They would let Paul Lynch : Yes, there was one docu- me go and make my film, and the only drama I did for Schools and Youth, little tiriie the producers came in was to see cinema Canada : Was your training What it was was a combination of photo­ Indian Boy, a good true stor)', a very nice the cut. They v\-ould change this or that, in graphic arts or was that something graphy, graphic design and typography little film about this little boy who was and then it was finished. And along the you just picked up ? and along the way I just learned, had the taken from the reservation and sent to a v\'av they would be helpful. Paul Lynch : Well, I had very little luck - touch wood - of meeting a lot of government school; He runs away from I started out at 20 as an art director schooUng. 1 started as a cartoonist at the good people. the school and on his way to the reser­ and a graphic designer, and splurged Toronto Star when I was IS and then did I ended up working for Toronto Life vation he freezes to death. I'd done that my savings ($700) on a 12-minute film. I a couple of years as a newspaper photo- and while I was there I did a story for one as a docu-drama; that and a few took it to Glen Sarty at the CBC after I grapiier around Ontario. That lead into The Canadian magazine on teen-age Telescopes started me on CBC drama. had spent $900 on it and he gave me $700 working as a magazine photographer married couples and I thought it was a to finish it. And as a result, I had a for Maclean's and the Star Weekly and pretty good story. So I went out and Cinema Canada : How did you make legitimate, finished film to show. That Toronto Life. I was doing quite well as a found another couple who were even the jump to your own first feature was wonderful! I marched from there cartoonist and photographer, but I younger - 16 and 17 - and decided I'd film ? I presume The Hard Part Begins to the reUgious programming division decided that neither one had much of a meike a film out of it. There was a stills was your first independent film ? and did a half-hour film on a home for future because, in those days, what I photographer I was working with, David Paul Lynch : In the course of my free­ retarded young boys. You'd go in with wanted to do was photo-journalism for Street at Toronto Life, and he was in­ lancing as a filmmaker, I also worked as an idea, they would give you the money Local Life and I was doing photo­ terested, so we got together and I got the a freelance graphic designer and one ot and send you away, and you'd make a journalism for the Star Weekly and money for the film and went out and my cUents was a magazine called Toron­ film. Weekend Magazine. But it really didn't shot it. to Calendar. I had been with them since From the day I started at the CBC, have much of a future; magazines were We shot week-ends for four months the conception of the magazine and I filmmaking was a profit-making busi­ closing down so I decided that, since I and I was so thrilled by it that I thought, got a call from them about going down ness for me. On my first film I lost $100 was a cartoonist, the next best step "I don't need graphic design anymore ; 1 to do a promo piece for some advertising and that was the last time I lost a cent would be to be an artist, so I sort of went will finish this film and I will go out with program. They told me I would have to making a movie. But more important, and applied for art jobs around Toronto it and I will be a major success !' It didn't make it; the sales exec was going to they told you how to make films. It and one lead to the other and I ended as quite turn out this way. In the course of write it. So I said, fine, so we met in ms wasn't like going to school... an art director, which I quite enjoyed. doing it, I was working freelance in the office and he turned out to b» Jobn

20/Cinema Canada - March 1983 I N T E R V I E W Hunter He had been writing for the CBC in the house - of the occupants, the they got a bus. And the nice thing about on proceeding occasions but things had rooms, of checking them out. And a guy it was they would just go in alone ; thev just not gone well in his personal life came in and I said, 'What do you do ?' and didn"l have any inside into the ropes and he was just working as a salesman he said he was a rock ami roll player which one may think to be a success. Feature filmography for Calendar. After working on this working with this little country and They were just out making the best they promo a little bit I sort of knew his western band. And I said, 'What kind of could and so, in a real sense, they were The Hard Part Begins (1973), p. name; I didn't know from where but a country and western band ?' and he the winners out of Hard Part because John Clifford Hunter, Derrett G. because I have all sorts of collectable said, 'Well, the guy sounds like Hank John and I thought they werent in long Lee, dist Cinepix, 91 min. coL stuff, I went to my collection of stuff on Williams' So I said, 'Maybe I'll come enough. If you have a film you can go film. I found a little article out of the TV down and see where you're playing." So and do something else with it. Cliff and Blood and Guts (1977), p. Peter Guide where John Hunter and Martyn be told me. I went down to the New Judy never understood this. They just O'Brian, d. Independent Pictures, Burke were in a picture with David knew they had been in a film and they Beresford House on Queen Street in 94 min. col. Peddy from the CBC ; they were working Toronto, not the Ritz, and here was Cliff promoted il a little bit and the upshot is on a drama together. I looked at the Carroll and his wife Judy, and Cliff at six months ago I went to the Horse Shoe Prom Night (1980), p. Peter picture and I thought, 'that looks like the time worked in a box factory and his Tavern to see them play and see the bus. Simpson, dist. Astral Films, 91 John, it has to be Jobn Hunter.' wife worked somewhere else and every It had taken them nine years to get from min. 35mm col. So I went back and I said, 'Do you night they would perform. They were the New Beresford House on Queen write dramas ?' And he said, "Yes, I used very nice people and so, a couple of days Street East, to the Horse Shoe on Queen Humongous (1981), p. Anthony to for the CBC." So I said, 'I would like to later, I brought Batch and Jobn and Street West... a lot of travelling but they Kramreither, dist. Astral Films make a film; why don't we get to­ everybody else down to meet them. This made it. And that was very nice and Dist., 93 min. 35mm col. gether?' So again, John sort of was was on the road, this was what Hard thaf s vi'hal came out of it. interested in making a film, and didn't Part is all about. So they agreed that they Cross-Country (1982), p. Pieter have much else to do. We got together would help us, give us some advice, Cinema Canada: What kind of a Kroonenburg, David Patterson, and I said, 'I'd like to do something with consult with us and, in return. Cliff commercial success did the film have ? dist. UA, 103 min. 35mm col. country music' and he said, 'I'd like to do would get a spot in the movie. So the Paul Lynch : It played across Canada ; this picture about a guy.' We combined movie is made. Cliff gets his spot. Cliff it sold to several world markets ; il the ideas and we worked on it for six or comes out of it with a career and, 10 never sold in the States ; it has played at making the film ? What were you trying seven months and then, in partnership years later, be now has his own bus and the CBC numerous times and was just to do with the film ? What did you hope with Derrelt Lee, put the package to­ they tour all over Ontario and the States. re-sold last year to the CBC to invest the from the film ? gether - a very good package with Proceeding doing the film, be was profit. Nine years down the road... but Paul Lynch : II was a film about blue- letters from everybody, with a budget, married and he would order guitars the private investors have been paid off collar people and from the day I started, everything. We took the package and a from companies and when they arrived - the CFDC has been paid off partially, I think because I am from a working- copy of the CBC films I'd made to the his .wife would destroy them because not all - and the investors earned a class English family, all the stories I ever CFDC and they said, 'we'll give you she ditirif feel he should work every profit on it. And so with the pay-TV did primarily - the magazines, the $60,000 if you can raise $40,000.' Well, night and be a country singer, particu­ sales, if we can turn the corner in a year photo stories or films- were always sort that was better than nothing but not larly with Judy singing. She was a little or two with the pay-TV sales, either in of blue-collar stories. I did stories about exactly what one hoped. While all this suspicious. Judys husband was a lines­ Canada or in the States, I think it will be teen-age marriage, working couples, was going on, I had been out on the East man and he was really a nice fellow. He all clean. farmers, all sorts of things, because coast shooting a film for a CBC drama would have Judy press all his clothes so thaf S where my interest lies. When I series. One of the actors was called he could go out at night and have dates Cinema Canada : In talking about it, started doing films I did Daytona, a guy Batch Wallace. Back in Toronto, I ran with other women, and when she argued you said that it was a real film, that it struggling, a guy with a car from Toronto, into Hatch. he would punch her. So the two of them was not phoney and certainly that is struggling to make it in Daytona. I did He was trying to package a picture for found each other as a new person and what I reacted to when I saw it. It was the wonderful bus trip from the Horse $200,000 for which he bad been able to stuck together and made a terrific just so true, so human, even the melo­ Shoe Tavern in Toronto, three days to round up $100,000 but the CFDC, who career for themselves out of Hard Part. drama... What kind of value did you put Nashville. I was, and still am, interested was going to give him the other hundred, Hard Part started to spurr them so now in those characteristics when you were and fascinated by those kinds of people had turned him down. So I said ; 'Lef s and I like going to those kind of movies. have lunch,' and at lunch I said, "Look, So when Hard Part came and the idea why don't you come in with me on Hard about making a film about a country and Part with your money and be executive western form of struggle to gel some producer, because you're not going to kind of success, realistically, it v^'as get your other $100,000 and all I need is because I was interested. $40,000.' So Batch introduced me to his lawyer and they had indeed raised Cinema Canada : What is the road $100,000 and he was willing to come in that you've travelled from then till with the $40,000, So now I had Raich's now in terms of the kind of films that money for the $40,000 and the CFDC's you're now interested in making and for the $60,000 and a deal was signed the motivation for making them ? and we went off and did Hard Part., Paul Lynch : I think that I simply sort of e.vhausled a genre in a sense and. if I Cinema Canada : What do you feel didn't, other people around me did today about the reception that Hard when I was doing those kind of films. Part got ? Both critically and commer­ When I did Hard Part and Blood and cially ? Guts there were numerous sorts of blue- Paul Lynch: Well, it's hard to say collar class stories, good ones. From because I really liked it a lot. 1 still like Panic in Needle Park to Five Easy Pieces, the film a lot. It has rough edges because to all of those kinds of films thai came it was made with very little money and out at the same time and it just got so great duress, and a lot of inexperience that when I'd done B/ood and Guts I had was in it. But I think that what motivated exhausted that kindof milieu. And there whatever critical success it had was that was only so much you could do with it it was a real movie. It was almost a docu­ and what you can say. Until the miUeu mentary look at what happens to a lends to change and it only ihanj;<>s country and western singer and most of with economic conditions it was accurate. Nothing was really Now, there are other stories to be told. phoney except maybe a little melodrama There is one I would like to do ; I've in the'story. But, basically, everything been working on one about two kids about it is vv.ty much how those people and a factory closing down But that live and that was because John and I comes out of the economic conditions ol talked to several of them. The greatest the limes. W hen I'd finished Blood and success of the picture - as much as il Guts 1 was just sort of running out ol helped John and ni\sflf and Doiinely Khodes - was Cliff Carroll who was a Cinema Canada : There was more to country and western singer. it then that though, Paul, to go from Just in ti'lling stories about films and HardPart/rom Blood and Guts (o Prom why if s kind of a nice business, I was Night IS a very big step nilb a very living in a communal house in Toronto different kind of a film... and we were working on the script and Paul Lynch : No. not really because I putting the package together and I was had finished Blood and Guts and was in charge - we had about seven people looking for another story and another

March 1983 - Cinema Canada/21 rsTSii^w are you doing?' I said, I'm working on kind of milieu to deal with. And I was hates him with a passion. He can"t do had people singing I figured if you are this thing that is called Prom Night.' He really not coming up with anything. 1 anything right. And the upshot of the going to tell a drama at least disguise it wasn't coming up with any ideas thai story is that a lion gets loose and the said, 'Look, lef s get together and talk.' at least gloss it over and sugar-coat it so were generating anything at all. When­ immediate lion lamer gets killed and This was on a Thursday. On Monday he the people out there who don't want to ever you finish a film you go back to the circus, in order to survive, makes read the Ireatmenl, came back and said. think will go in and come out with some square one. You then have to go out And him go on. And the night he goes on, his We'll make a deal to develop a script insight. generate another story to make into a daughter leaves, she runs away and so and do Prom Night.' And that's how film-or something you dream up- and he goes into the cage with no hope of Prom Night came about. It just came Cinema Canada : What did this com­ if s no better and no easier today than il winning and the big finale was the about looking for another area to make a mercial success with Prom Night do to was then. I still prowl in book stores, in daughter showing up and he whipping film in. you, what did it allow you to do, did it magazine stores and read every trashy back the cats... surprise you ? Were you different after­ newspaper in the world looking for It was just a wonderful story, right ? Cinema Canada : Was the way you felt wards ? In terms of opportunity, op­ something, to try and find a good, So I got development money from about making Prom Night different tions, directions, did it open a door? human story and I just hadn't come up Wayne Fenske and Chris Dalton to write from the way you felt when you were Paul Lynch : Yes, in the sense thatthen with one and so I was kicking around. this thing. We did the script and ifs a making Hard Part ? In the one you were I started getting offers of scripts. After After Blood and Guts, a year after it wonderful script but nobody would do making an effort to render a human Hard Part and Rlood and Guts I wasn't was finished, I happened to go to a party il. I mean you couldiVt move the script... story and a good film, and in Prom offered anything, so now I got offered and run into Orville Fruilman, who had and, strangely enough, I took it with me Night, a horror film. bad scripts. And a lot of those bad been the prime mover behind gelling when I first met Peter Simpson, saying, Paul Lynch : Prom Night was, at that scripts were made into movies in Canada. Hard Part distributed. He liked it and he "Would you be interested, do you make point, just as good a craft as I could I've never yet taken a picture that was got it distributed through Cinepix. And family pictures ?' He said he didn't want make it It bad to be a really good craft, not a good script. There's no point. Orville said : 'Pierre David is making to make it. that was all. I like kids - I'd never really movies and he's looking for commercial finished high school and so it was a So with this writer, we were sitting Cinema Canada: You went from movies to make.' So, after talking to chance to re-live that. It wasn't the same around and we said, 'Well, maybe we'll Prom Night to being a producer for Orville, a friend and I sal around thinking experience as making Blood and Guts make a horror picture,' and we gave it American Nightmare did you not ? what we could come up with in the or Hard Part because the problem with all and made a horror picture. We came up Paul Lynch : No, what I did then is that sense of a horror film, I mean a commer­ teen-agers is that there is no depth to with Don't Go See the Doctor. The ad Bill and I sat down and we worked out cial movie. We came up with a really them. I mean, no matter what you do - campaign was a wonderfully grotesque Humongous. I had shown Prom Night to grotesque thing called Don't Go See the in England there lends to be a little doctor leaning over something with a Mickey Stevenson because I was trying Doctor. And my approach from Hard more than in North America- but even a scalpel and il said; 'What happens to get a deal with Harold Greenberg on a Part on, because I'm a graphic designer, picture like Fast Times at Ridgemont when your gynecologist cracks ? What­ picture called New Orleans, a very is always the old Crown International High, there is only so much depth you ever you do, don't go see the doctor'... strong, good thriller about people. There route of do-the-campaign-first because can apply to these kids. I grant you there Anyway, Pierre was not thrilled. Stran­ was a wonderful lady named Sandra when you walk in with the campaign are real problems but, as you get older, gely enough, later, he made Visiting Colbert and she really rallied for me and the treatment, producers can see ifs a little hard to identify with them. Hours which is about hospitals, but at something in front of them that maybe So in Prom Night it was just to do the very hard and I thought, well, if I show that point he didn't want to do doctor could make money. Blood and Guts was best craft that one could and hopefully Mickey my picture maybe he can rally stories. So, I thought, well, where do I the same way. So I did a poster for Don't have a commercial movie out of it. too. The problem is it was a very hard- go to next ? Halloween had just come Co See the Doctor and a treatment, but Because, to that point, I had not had a edged script ai^d Mickey read it and out so I went to see that. At some poing, it was really going off the deep end ; it commercial film. And believe me, in this " said, 'No, I'm a family man.' I guess the title Prom Night popped into my was really bizarre, horrible, and Pierre business if you don't have a commercial Harold read it and said the same thing. It mind and I started formulating a plot. I wasn't really that interested. film, you just aren't in the business very was a women's picture and Sandra do my poster from my premise, do my long ; it's a bard fast rule. From day one liked it a lot. But that went nowhere, so, eight pages, package it all together and with Hard Part it was meant to be a in the course of talking about it, Mickey then I get invited to a cocktail party in Cinema Canada : I'm just interested commercial film. Unfortunately that's said, 'Well, why not another horror L.A. for the Festival of Festivals and in the gist of this horror, is it something why il had country music, thaf s why I picture ?' So I talked to Bill and we came that you had dealt with before, that you there's Peter Simpson. He says, 'What up with Humongous. Originally Astral played around with before ? was going to be involved and then they Paul Lynch : No, no. I was working at weren't. Mickey funded it independently the lime with a writer who had worked and Avco financed the development of on Blood and Guts with me. John it and finally it was made independent­ McBride and I were working on a script ly- called "Caiman and the Kid." When Blood While that was tailing off Tony Kram­ and Guts was finished and looking for reither was looking to make a low- an idea, and what came up was circuses, budget movie and it was one of those carnival. Now these were not well-liked situations where he had the money and by distributors and I knew this, but I no real script or anything else and I had thought a good human story is something again been working with a writer on 1 would like to do and still would like to American Nightmare so I said, 'Well, I do. My story was about a father who was have a script and as it is now November once a famous lion lamer in a circus. and you have to be finished by the end of One night his wife isn't getting along the year, you should look at it." So he with him and she's had too many drinks gave me the go-ahead and we did so he insists that she doesn't go into the American Nightmare. Ifs a thriller, a cage with him. But she wants to, mainly horror picture, I suppose... because her parents are visiting her and want to see the act. She's from a wealthy Cinema Canada : You described it to family. He"s from a lower-class family, me as a 'slasher picture.' and the upshot is that night the cats get Paul Lynch: I suppose you can put her and she dies. They have a daughter, labels on any of these things but ifs a Jennifer, and the wife"s parents agree terror picture, it"s a thriller. not to press charges but they take Jen­ nifer to raise. Cinema Canada : Doyou enjoymaking Well, all of this affects Caiman and he terror/horror pictures ? goes on a binge, becomes an alcoholic Paul Lynch : 1 Uke thrillers, 1 really like and ends up running away to a carnival making thrillers, but theres no thrill to and, ten years later, there's a notice in me in doing blood or great special ef one of the circus papers that they are fects or anything like thaf I was m tne looking for him because his wifes screening room at Quinn Lab lookmgai parents had died and his daughter is in a few of the rushes ft^m Cronenber^s a private school and there is no more picture (Scanners) and the effects were money for tuition ; either she will be marvelous, they were truly stunning sent to a foster home or he can have But as I was watching them I <^f^ control of her, but he has the summer thinking you can't get this on the screen, with her to see if it will work. And this you can go so far but you can't get this on gu\ is really a wonderful guy. This guy is the screen anymore, because of the cen­ Rocky. Everything he does is done for sorship. , the right reasons and hes quite happy So in rushes you can do bnlliam doing his age and scale" thing and special effects but what else? Vou can hanging out with the folks and helping cut somebody's head off and it looks like people. He goes to gel his daughter who a real person is being decapitatedjn

22/CinemaCanada- March 1983 TJTTE R V I E W front of your eyes, but none of that is a problems, to some of those films as 'garbage,' yet Cinema Canada: / don't think that thrill; making and putting a picture you also have said that it's important the argument is between making a film together, yes. But the blood thafs in Cinema Canada : How important is that they be made because they will that makes money and a film which American Nightmare I could like the kind of campaign and marketing bring along opportunities for other doesn't I think a lot of people are without it. Mungus is softer than most, il which is extended on a film which is an filmmakers... getting exercised about the quality, doesn't have a lot of blood. exploitation or a commercial formula ? Paul Lynch: Garbage is the wrong even the commercial quality : an awful Paul Lynch : Well, whether you are word. You see, in the '50s, there used to lot of films were made to exploit a Cinema Canada: Humongous has talking about a Prom Night or Hallo­ be "A"" movies and ""B"" movies and market because they were thought to got the kind of response you thought it ween, or a Black Leather Bloodlust, if studios would make both. They realized be commercial. would ? one should every come along, a campaign that a lot of money could be made out of Paul Lynch : There is no guarantee Paul Lynch : No, because it got caught for those kind of films has got to be at ""B"" movies. Well, things have changed that anything will be commercial, from very badly in a company take-over. When least 50% of it or maybe more because now so that there are really no "A" or "B Porkys to Prom Night. And you can't it was made. Bob Rehme at Avco and very strong campaigns get people into movies, there are just movies. However, regulate taste. So you have the problem Frank Capra were behind it. They were the theatres and ifs common knou^ledge what the States does quite successfully, that what may seem commercial - a the heads of the company at the time that films like this normally fall off with Beach Girls, Junk Man and a couple spoof comedy - may not ha\'e any com- and they stood behind it and they liked somewhere around two weeks, about of others that have made money, is keep merciality whatsoever. But that's taste it a lot. But just as it was finished and 25% a week. Very few of them build back. an industry rolling, moving around and and a sort of sense of what the market about to be released, the company got I mean very few open like An Officer moving ahead minus the E.T.'s or An will play. It's very hard to regulate those bought by Gerry Perenchino and Norman and a Gentleman and play at 100% Officer and a Gentleman. Now, in the kind of things and I think we made an Lear. Gerry Perenchino saw the film and because there is a certain amount of States there has been an industry with a awful lot of films, neither commercial hated it. Gerry obviously doesn't like audience. If you're falling off 25% a solid base for a long time. nor good. Australia tends to have been horror pictures and they did their week, you're doing just fine, and if you In Canada, I really think that ifs a in a similar situation as Canada, but they damnesl to kill il. They didn't like it; get to 50% for two weeks you're doing mistake not to get down on one"s knees have made more nationalistic product they didn't want to be associated with it. just terrific. Humongous played for and kiss David Cronenberg and the Ivan because they are so divorced from They wanted Embassy to be a class com­ three weeks in New York and it fell off­ Beitmans and people like that, because America compared to Canada. They pany to release things like Chariots of al least at my count I think about 25%, every picture that they make, whether haven't tried to copy American films but Fire and what they were saddled with but it didn't open strong. You know your one may think that it has merit or not, they've taken formulas : Road Warrior was a couple of pictures, one of which picture is bad if it opens big and drops. If •spurs an industry. People who have is an excellent example of a wonderful was Humongous, and they would have it doesn't open big you have no idea invested in those kind of pictures have commercial film, done with an Aus­ just been happier if it had disappeared. what you've got because nobody came made money; therefore they will come tralian bent because they are so divorced to see the picture. If the ad campaign got back and they will invest again. And in from the rest of the world. We are not. Cinema Canada: How did Cross them in and if we bad done, lef s say, a the course of this they will make six We are silting four hours from Los Country come about ? And are you not $1.5 million on 250 theatres the opening Black Leather Bloodlusts and they may Angeles. caught in another company take-over ? week-end and it dropped to $200,000, make one Micheline Lanctot film, or one But you must remember the films that Paul Lynch : God yes ! I mean you can't you'd know it was the film. If you open at Francis Mankiewicz film, but unless have been genetically commercial in bank on these things but Cross Country $600,000 for 200 t\|eatres and you go to they start to see money back, v^^hen this country were always the singular is an odd situation because nine years $400,000 or $450,000 the next week, you Francis Mankiewicz or Micheline Lanc­ work of one person, one person's idea ago I read the book and I gave the book don't have a bad drop-off but you never tot knocks on the door they'll say, "No and what they believed in. Porkys is the to John Hunter to read and he read it got a chance in the first place. Thaf s the way, I've lost money.' That's the key work of Bob Clark. Ifs his film. Meat- and I said, 'After you've read the book, I problem. And Humongous just didn't factor. Without financially successful balls is Ivan Reilman's film. All of Cro think you should take this to Sydney open very big. Avco had stood solidly films - good, bad or indifferent - ifs just nenberg's films are his own; self- Furey.' Certainly if I'm a filmmaker behindProm Night, and thafs why it did hopeless to try and hold an industry generated ideas and self-generated today it's because of Sydney. Much is the well. They didn't back Humongous and together. I'm sure that people who are beliefs. Prom Night was loo. They are CBC arid much is Sydney - for his advice there was no secret about it... into Porkys are seeing quite a bit of self-generated by a filmmaker who and for everything else. So I said we profit on their investment and would be believes and cares about making a film should take it to Sydney because he Cinema Canada : You have referred open to almost anything now. that he likes and thinks be can make might be really interested. And we took some money on. They are not packages ; il to him and he thought it was kind of that's the difference. They are not pro disgusting. And the book was. The book ducers sitting down saying, "Hey kid ! was truly a great, sick, sex story. So, I put You want to make something ? What do it away as a great read and that was that. you want to make ? What can we make About four years after that, John Hun­ that will make money ?" ter got a call from a Canadian producer In all the cases of successful films. who'd bought the rights and wanted Black Christmas included, lhe\' were him to do a script. So he wrote the script. pictures that filmmakers wanted to do. But the producer then had Peter CoUin- They weren"l a package ; they didn't son assigned as the director but could have So-and-so saying if you gel Lee not quite put a deal together. So we kind Majors we'll make your film. A\lmost all of sat around. Pieter Kroonenberg and of the successful films have been David Patterson were finishing up generated by filmmakers perse, not by Heartaches and John Hunter said to me, producers. The producers' track records 'Why don't you take the script ? I think I are very shoddy in this country. can get it back from this producer.' John Danielkyw was the producer It was just very hard to gel that picture to­ Cinema Canada : With the other films gether. So I took it to Pieter and David like Humongous and like American and they read it and liked it and they Nightmare, were you involved to the started trying to put a deal together. same point ? This is going back about three years. Paul Lynch : They were all generated And nothing much happened, then in the same way. Humongous was Bill and February Pieter was at the Manila film I silling down and creating the film we festival and ran into Ron Cohen and Ron wanted to make : a bunch of kids in the said to Pieter, What are you doing?' summer on an island and something Luckily they met and the project got terrible happens to them. 1 spent two made. [ Cohen negotiated the negative years on American Nightmare, about pick-up with United Artists for Cross what happens when a kid goes to the Country.] It had been with me for nine streets and there's incest in the family years. and all of that stuff Behind the blood­ letting, there's a human drama. It \\ as Cinema Canada : What have been the put together the same way If Tonv advantages and the difficulties of hadn't come up with the mone\ it working on a picture which already has probably would have ne\ er been made a negative pick-up ? How does that so there was maybe a commercial catch work in a relationship and what does it there in the sense that I got some money require of you ? to direct the film. But certainly it was Paul Lynch : Nothing at all. United something that I wanted to do' Artists had a production person from the U.S. who was in\ olved in the script Cinema Canada : If you look over the and approving things and that was il. last couple of years, Porkys opened a Then we went away and shot il and no lot of doors for Bob Clark who then re-

March 1983 - Cinema Canada/23 rKmromH turned to the States. He made an Ameri­ States are not very big at all. And the for $100,000 anymore. about seventeen and I would alternately can film called Porky's IL Certainly other thing that always intrigues me, go to In^mar Bergman pictures which I doors have been opened all over for and that I have never understood, is Cinema Canada : But I presume that hated and Hells-Angels-on-wheels pic- Ivan Reitman, partly because o/Meat­ why a film should refiect a country. you will soon have the kind of money lures which I loved. I went to all the balls and partly for other work. I Because film is like formica or glass. If that will allow you a certain amount of Europeatr and all the American films imagine that Paul Lynch could easily go we were to make this glass here and sell liberty. and they were all films to me. 1 never made a classification that I would go to to the States if he wanted to go to the it lo the States, we would employ people ; Paul Lynch: I was giving you the States... You were talking about the example of Catman and the Kid, a great a "B" movie or tomorrow I'll go to an "A" we would make good quality glass ; we movie. geographical situation of Australia and buy and sell it and everybody makes a human drama, a wonderful film, and I Canada. Is there really a country called few dollars. What is imbued with Cana- still believe that ifs a film people would What can I say about critics ? Ifs up to Canada in which to make films ? diana except craft incurring from the pay money to see; it had all the right them, ifs their judgment to make, not Paul Lynch : Well, there's a country company that made il ? qualities to it. Nobody was interested in mine. I've liked every film I've made. For called Canada that doesn't realize how doing it, period. So, you say, whaf s the me they got a little better each lime; I've different il is as compared to the Stales. Cinema Canada : But ifs notgiass. In point ? You have to find something that learned more and more; I can see the II isn't having your own flag and national films you have a chance to deal primarily somebody will bank-roll. And that cuts changes. I think I'm getting a little better anthem ; ifs a way of thinking. If you with emotions, with language, with your artistic choices down a great limit. at the craft as I get older and I like them grow up in Canada, you grow up with a structures, with ideas. You just can't go out there and say, 'Hey, all. There's none of them that I'm not Canadian sensibility which is influenced Paul Lynch : If you wish to, you do. But I would really like to make a film about proud of.. I like them all, each for their a great deal by the United States un­ the bottom line is, it is like that glass, like stockcars and a young kid and bis own merit. questionably, but never totally. There is those subways... Primarily ifs like sub­ stockcar and what happens to it. Or a I sat in the Culver City cinema in the still something separate and different ways. You just make them well and romance in a small country town.' As States and behind me were three work­ about Canada. And although the two hope that theres a market for them. Ifs much as I would like to make that film, ing-class people, having a serious dis­ run very dose and get closer every day just like any other product you export. cussion about the merits of The Unseen because we depend on the U.S. for loo nobody will finance it so what do you Why would you want to attach a nation­ do ? If nobody will finance it, you have over Halloween. They were treating many things, there is still a very sin­ ality to it ? Because when there's a these films as seriously as any critic gular place called Canada. And il isn't your script there - you have already chance for that, people do but il doesn't lived half your movie writing the script would treat a $20 million movie; for like any place else in the world. II mean it has to. Ifs up lo a filmmaker, or them it was entertainment and en­ resembles America to a degree but and nobody will lay an eye on your film, somebody deciding to make a film what do you do ? Do you keep knocking joyment. They were disappointed by that's all. I always wonder what every­ about the trees in northern Quebec. It The Unseen because it didn't have body is talking about nationalism for, your head against a wall, to what point ? doesn't mean there's a market, but what What you have to find is some kind of whatever element they wanted and because that there is no way that we are the guy should be saying is, 'I decided to they were saddened by the fact that Americans. compromise, and I am proud that all my make a film on trees in Quebec, can I sell films have been self-generating in a there weren't more of these kind of it ? Can I make it well ? Can I see it on sense. I found the material, I liked the movies they could go and watch. The Cinema Canada: You sound like screen ?' If the answer is no, well don't material and I turned them into movies. following week-end they were going to see Halloween again. They were taking you're giving me the interview that you bother doing it. And I've never made a film where I want to see in Cinema Canada... these films seriously as entertainment. worked with someone where I basically A movie is a movie. If some people Paul Lynch : No, because we are in- Cinema Canada : Is there any motiva­ took a job. ~ ~ happen to like horror films, some people fiuenced by America. I mean since the tion aside from money to making a like other kinds of films; they put their day I came here with my parents I've film? Cinema Canada: // you like the own criteria on it. I just make what I like watched American television and a lot' material, what does it do to you to have Paul Lynch: If I was independently to make at a given point which means more of il than Canadian television. your last film referred to as garbage wealthy and could choose to make any­ five years from now I could be makinga There is still a good chunk of Canada and to have people remember your thing I wanted to and had Daddy's trust western - it could be God knows what. just living here, from being on the fund every month, not at all. But film early films as great moments In Cana­ streets here. We don't make films, and I isn't like that. It isn't like being a writer dian filmmaking ? don't think we ever can, that are as with a pad of paper; it's a very expen­ Paul Lynch : All films, to me, are films. Cinema Canada : But / take it these genetically Canadian as films that are sive medium. I can't even make a film I started watching movies when I was last films have not been made because genetically Australian because we are you thought that they were great stories closer to the U.S. than Australia, both in the way that you thought Hard Part physically and mentally. They don't gel was. the broadcasting we gel. All the maga­ Paul Lynch : Not true. The amount of zines, all the tjooks. enthusiasm I generated for Hard Part, Blood and Guts, was the same that I Cinema Canada : But today you are generated for Prom Night, Humongous talking about national feeling and .len- and Cross Country: .tibility and ye.iterday you were .•saying that ive ivere all in the business to make Cinema Canada: What would you formica. like to do next ? Paul Lynch: In the end result, thafs Paul Lynch : I would like to do "Cat- quite true. We are all making a product man and the Kid"' but as everybody has lo he sold on a world-wide market. Au.s- said no, forget il, I really don't know,.. I Iralia cannot support its own films, at have nothing at all. There are not very least now ; when il started it could. Hard many good scripts around at any level of Part \Nas made lor S 100,000 way back this business whether you are Francis when, ajid if we could have stayed with Ford Coppola or a guy from Georgia. A those budgets, I think we could have good story or a good script is just very made more Canadian movies. But Aus­ hard to find. And to find somethingthat tralia is a very good example because il really hits you takes an awful lot of time. is a singular place. I can tell you that for the last nine I think you can generate a lot more months in Close-up on Crime, National material out of Australia than you can Enquirer, The National Star, there hasn't generate out of Canada. 11 doesn't mean been a single item that would make a that it will have a world market. How movie, whether horror or human in­ many films are made down there ? ,\nd terest. how many do we see ? What we see are the "formicas" in actual fact, the Road Cinema Canada : No interest in pro­ Warrior or the occasional one that ducing ? slides through, like Canadian films. Paul Lynch : I think I would like to You'll see Les bons debarras or Breaker produce a comedy, yes. I would like a Morant thai played in New York and a kid's comedy. I"m just not a comedy couple of othercenters, but thafs where director and I don't know exactly what a the Australian films play except for the comedy director is and I dont think it s ones that are basically formica, which me. But I would like to produce one. I are entertainment for a world market. love the effect of people laughing; ifs The other ones have a very select an instantaneous thing. You can go into audience, in their home counln' or any­ a theatre and whether ifs a Woody where else in the world. Its the same Allen or Porkys, you hear the audience with German films. Ifs a very small immediately reacting to a film, particu­ market. Now they get a lot of publicity so larly a comedy. I'd like to produce one of it seems like ifs bigger but the grosses those but thafs all; other than that, of those foreign films that play m the nothing. _5

24/Cinema Canada - March 1983